00:01:51 does anyone know how to generate call-graphs with sbcl? 00:02:24 the manual says that sb-sprof should be able to do it, but I can't see how 00:03:50 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@70-36-146-44.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:04:05 oh, okay - I misread the documentation for 'report' 00:04:37 'report' returns the call-graph object. I'll go test 00:04:47 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:05:03 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@70-36-146-70.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:24 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-165-164-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:13:58 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:15:16 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 00:18:10 -!- loke [~elias@bb116-15-153-239.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:20:03 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:21:28 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:33 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 00:21:36 scrimohsin [~mzoi7wh@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 00:22:06 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-128-201.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 00:22:45 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 00:22:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:23:26 jweiss_ [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:23:39 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:22 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-128-201.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:31 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.87.148.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 00:27:38 zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 00:28:44 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:29:47 DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:36 -!- seangrove [~user@173-228-88-206.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:35:19 pnq [~nick@ACA22839.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:37:36 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 00:38:12 is there a set of functions or libraries most common used for modifying directories? 00:38:14 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 00:38:15 like cp mv etc? 00:38:34 chemuduguntar: in cesarum, there's a copy-file function. 00:38:40 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B9A8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:38:52 com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file:copy-file 00:39:13 (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum) 00:39:23 pjb: i am using sbcl , will that work? 00:39:31 It should. 00:39:41 Things under :com.informatimago.common-lisp should be conforming. 00:40:02 If not, report a bug! :-) 00:40:10 haha ok 00:43:22 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:44:01 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:46:35 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.66.251] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:47:29 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 00:54:07 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@70-36-146-70.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:02 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@71.249.144.64] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 00:56:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:57:35 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:02 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:04:31 joekarma [ae06ec62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.6.236.98] has joined #lisp 01:05:24 see also cl-fad 01:08:11 -!- xpf [~xpf@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:08:27 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:11:43 -!- general-general [~marypatri@86.46.61.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:12:16 symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:27 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:17:45 xpf [~xpf@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 01:18:58 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:19:08 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has joined #lisp 01:20:09 -!- pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:20:17 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:11 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has joined #lisp 01:24:10 -!- symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:24:46 symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:30 anybody know why a global would get set to nil after stopping a thread in sbcl? 01:26:02 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:26:10 i loaded a file while a thread was running and slime complained so i quit it and lost my data that was stored in a global variable... 01:26:39 -!- jweiss_ [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:52 <|3b|> lisp doesn't have global variables, are you sure you weren't using a binding that only existed in that thread? 01:27:12 i defparameter it and then set it in the thread 01:30:26 <|3b|> some random guesses: you reevaluated the defparameter and reinitialized the variable, or you interrupted something in the middle of assigning to it? 01:30:45 nicdev_ [d1063263@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.6.50.99] has joined #lisp 01:30:53 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 01:31:15 yes, probably reevaluated the defparameter 01:31:34 defvar doesn't change the value if it's already set, does it? 01:31:39 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@96.31.242.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:31:57 <|3b|> right, DEFVAR is better for variables that will be filed by the program with data you want to keep around 01:32:01 -!- nicdev_ [d1063263@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.6.50.99] has left #lisp 01:32:27 my mistake...still learning 01:32:38 <|3b|> (but note that C-M-x on a defvar form in slime /will/ reinitialize the variable even if set) 01:32:51 ok, good to know 01:33:16 lots a couple of days of data due to that 01:33:20 er..lost i mean 01:33:26 <|3b|> C-c C-c, C-c C-k, C-x e all evaluate it normally though, and won't reinitialize it 01:33:45 <|3b|> yeah, usually a good idea to save it once in a while if you will be running that long :) 01:34:03 it's still in development anyways, it's not that important 01:34:13 i'm still trying to get it running a while week without barfing 01:34:20 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A40AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:47 topeak [~topeak@123.114.123.39] has joined #lisp 01:38:36 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:39:22 pyrony [~epic@173-116-181-151.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:40 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:06 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-2-11.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:40:16 yhvh [~jihad@68.225.103.138] has joined #lisp 01:42:53 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-2-11.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:53:08 itegebo_ [~quassel@c-76-102-2-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:21 -!- itegebo [~quassel@c-76-102-2-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:54:45 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:57:30 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-128-201.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:01:12 -!- symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:34 is int-char not part of lisp? my editor is coloring it as a standard function, and it's in clisp, but not in sbcl 02:02:05 *|3b|* does not see it in the spec 02:02:38 There's char-int, though. 02:02:48 yeah, clisp has both 02:03:15 What's it do? 02:03:28 returns character code 02:03:43 <|3b|> not portably 02:03:53 -!- algorist_ [~quassel@host52-175-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:04:02 <|3b|> if you want character code, use char-code and code-char 02:05:19 *|3b|* wonders how many current lisp implementations actually have implementation-defined character attributes 02:05:45 -!- Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 02:06:46 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host52-175-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:06:51 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:30 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:10:22 cheezus [~Adium@69-165-164-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:10:29 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10:36 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@99.192.100.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:11:25 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-204-93.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:36 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:43 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:59 |3b|: probably not many. 02:13:27 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:13:30 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:13:31 <|3b|> seems like one of the commercial lisps did, don't remember which though 02:13:32 algorist_ [~quassel@host52-175-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 02:13:32 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:15 In anycase, you cannot expect there's none, and you don't need to expect it either. 02:14:44 -!- pyrony [~epic@173-116-181-151.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:19:33 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:20:19 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-69-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 02:21:26 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-69-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 02:23:51 -!- nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:24:42 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:40 -!- catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-eldjlthqedowxqen] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:25:51 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-204-93.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:28:10 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-227.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:28:36 anyone anyone have any experience with "css-selectors"? I'm trying to query a CXML structure for links but all I'm getting is nil 02:28:49 https://gist.github.com/1026362 02:29:29 I haven't been able to get this to work with plexipus xpath either 02:29:47 joekarma: there are case weirdness with HTML, XHTML and XML. Have you tried "A"? 02:30:02 That's the entire depth of my knowledge on this topic. 02:30:11 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:30:45 thanks for your input pkhuong... I was trying with ccl, going to restart slime in sbcl and see if case there makes any difference 02:30:51 nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:32:06 foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.214.254] has joined #lisp 02:36:20 no luck in sbcl 02:36:49 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:36:54 ok, so I'll rephrase my question: anyone been able to query scraped data using xpath or css selectors? 02:37:43 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 02:39:23 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-157-217.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:00 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:40:00 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:40:05 felideon [~felideon@adsl-74-233-75-115.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:07 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 02:40:10 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-157-217.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:40:23 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 02:40:35 -!- kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:42:26 -!- timchen1` [tim@163.16.211.21] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 02:47:53 <|3b|> joekarma: looks like it might want cxml-dom:make-dom-builder instead of cxml-stp:make-builder ? 02:48:17 pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:05 is the following code style correct? (defun foo (x) (setq y 333) (+ x y)) 02:53:14 i.e. not using a let 02:53:46 Why do you want to do that? 02:54:06 chemuduguntar: no, it is not. 02:54:29 <|3b|> if there is a (defvar y) somewhere before that, it is just bad style, if not it is undefined behavior 02:54:31 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has joined #lisp 02:54:47 i want to first capture the result of a compuation and then use it later on? 02:55:13 Let me rephrase. Why do you want to avoid using a let to do that? 02:55:13 <|3b|> LET is good for that 02:55:25 that is exactly what you use let for 02:55:27 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:55:39 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:53 You would just say that in English, why not in lisp? 02:57:02 Let y be 333, return the sum of x and y. 02:57:09 (let ((y 333)) (+ x y)) 02:58:19 ok 02:58:32 i am unfamiliar with how to use CL properly 02:59:03 chemuduguntar: looks like it, yes. 02:59:12 chemuduguntar: perhaps you should read PCL? 02:59:34 yes I've been meaning to for some time 03:00:49 i think i was thinking (setq would create a binding in the current frame (created by the invocation of foo) 03:00:56 read a lot of the projects out there 03:00:58 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:02 that helps tremendously 03:01:03 |3b|, brilliant, thank you so much. that works for css-selectors. for some reason I still can't get xpath to work though 03:01:08 sbryant_work: in the book itself? 03:01:16 the book itself is good 03:01:20 but in addition too 03:03:17 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:03 chemuduguntar: also, read clhs 03:04:26 By reading the page about setq, and the page about let, it should be obvious which one creates bindings... 03:04:46 pjb: excellent, thanks 03:06:52 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 03:10:50 -!- scrimohsin [~mzoi7wh@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has left #lisp 03:14:56 Molly_Az [~chatzilla@174-26-102-164.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:37 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 03:17:24 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:17:38 Molly_Az pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122650 03:17:58 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:18:40 Hi. In the following code, how does the binding occur? http://paste.lisp.org/+2MMY 03:19:19 There is no binding for w at the point of the setq. 03:19:29 So your code is invalid as it stands. 03:19:43 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20:24 'w' is initially 8. x is bound to 'w', but to the previous value, i.e, the 77. 03:20:28 Invalid? 03:21:10 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:21:12 What made w initially 8? 03:21:20 Nothing in your code does that. 03:21:27 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:21:34 <|3b|> SETQ is only valid on variables (and symbol macros), W is neither on the first line 03:21:55 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:22:13 Zhivago: setq binds the value of 77 to 'w'. The let creates a local binding, right? 03:22:18 Wrong. 03:22:23 setq doesn't bind anything. 03:22:39 setq changes the value of a binding. 03:22:50 *Molly_Az* is using clisp. Is that a problem? 03:22:59 Who cares about clisp? 03:23:06 Do you want to understand CL or not? 03:23:19 Or do you want to practice writing code that works by accident? 03:23:40 Does that first line not at least give you a warning? 03:23:50 Why the hostility? I'm using successful lisp (book). 03:24:25 <|3b|> Molly_Az: Zhivago is always hostile, don't worry about it... th epoint stands though, we can't help you if the code is invalid :) 03:24:52 Bike. No, no warning is emitted. When I type 'w' at the prompt, the value 77 is displayed. 03:25:26 Molly: Please look up "hostility". 03:25:41 Molly_Az: If you did not define that variable with defvar or defparameter, that setq is undefined behaviour 03:25:53 Exactly how clisp interprets it, I have no idea. 03:25:56 Thanks |3b|. Zhivago: Please look up "helpful". 03:25:57 3b annotated #122650 "valid code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122650#1 03:25:58 Molly: Then see about answering my questions. 03:26:11 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:26:18 molly: Do you want to practice writing code that works by accident? 03:26:26 Every symbol has a symbol-value. Your setq has placed the value 77 in there, though that's technically undefined behavior. 03:26:45 I'm merely trying to understand code printed in the book. 03:26:58 When you do (let ((w 34)) ...), and w is not declared with a defvar or such, then the w is a local lexical variable that only exists in that scope 03:27:25 *Molly_Az* nods. Phoodus, ok. 03:27:39 molly: If you do want to practice writing code that works by accident, then you're find to do whatever just happens to work in clisp. 03:27:48 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:28:05 but if you do (let ((w 34)) ...) while w _is_ a defvar, then that sets the 'global' variable w to 34 for the duration of that scope, returning to the prior value when it exits 03:28:29 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:28:36 I didn't realize the code in the book works "by accident" since I am a beginning lisp programmer. 03:28:39 <|3b|> 'global' is wrong there, since things outside that scope won't see that value 03:28:39 Phoodus: sets? "global"? 03:29:11 so within binding scopes, depending on if the variable has been declared special or not, that binding means different things 03:29:31 molly: Then why are we having this big conversation about it, rather than you just answering 'yes' or 'no'? 03:29:36 _8david [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 03:30:04 <|3b|> Zhivago: maybe because the answer was 'none of the above'? 03:30:47 Zhivago: You're initial response was initially aggressive in tone and this tends to alienate students from any teaching approach. 03:31:18 molly: And your initial response was defensive and irrelevant and this tends to annoy people who are trying to explain things to you. 03:31:19 Molly_Az: intro books sometimes use simplifications that get under the skin of some of the people here, who are concerned with every detail of the actual specification 03:31:24 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:58 Did (setq var n) used to be fine? I see it in older references a lot. 03:32:08 Bike: yes. 03:32:29 I assumed the author of the book was using CL. Zhivago: A skilled teacher would explain foreign concepts in a radically different (read: better) way than you did. 03:32:50 molly: Stop whining. 03:32:53 Seems to cause confusion. 03:33:13 I'm not whining. I'm defending myself. 03:33:14 Please stop. 03:33:15 molly: If you can't answer simple questions and just want to whine, then I suggest that you go and pay someone to tell you how clever you are. 03:33:32 <|3b|> Molly_Az: better to just ignore Zhivago 03:33:51 Zhivago: I can't imagine how you consider what you're saying to be helpful or productive in any possible interpretation 03:33:54 Zhivago: please show a little (more) patience with folks new to lisp and #lisp 03:34:09 Zhivago: Clearly you're an immature individual with a large ego. 03:34:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:19 Molly_Az: You might want to try Practical Common Lisp as well or instead. 03:34:23 Molly_Az: That will not help anything 03:34:28 can we take this metadiscussion elsewhere, like ##c? 03:34:30 <|3b|> slyrus: the problem is Zhivago has /too much/ patience, and insists on using it like this indefinitely :( 03:34:52 <|3b|> Molly_Az: Zhivago is also an op, so you might want to be careful :( 03:35:13 *|3b|* agrees the whole thing is off topic though, so goes back to code 03:35:51 pnq: It won't? The author was discussing let and let* with regard to the binding order. 03:36:30 Molly_Az: calling names, I meant. 03:37:05 He stated that let binds vars at the same time where let* binds in order. pnq: I didn't call him(?) a name. 03:37:29 pnq is referring to "immature individual with a large ego" but let's drop it 03:37:54 Molly_Az: 'let' does create bindings 03:38:13 setq modifies existing ones, as has been said above 03:38:39 in (let ((a ..) (b ..) (c ..)) ), the '..' sections cannot see a, b, nor c 03:38:41 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:38:45 In the code I posted, the inner 'w' is local to the inner let and the value is 8? 03:38:56 <|3b|> right, the scope of a LET* binding includes the initialization of later bindings in that LET* 03:39:02 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has joined #lisp 03:39:04 but if it were let*, then b's '..' could see the value of a, and c's '..' could see both b and a 03:39:17 <|3b|> (right to the let bind... let* bind ... that is 03:39:33 Ok. 03:39:33 Molly_Az: yes, inside the let, the value of w is 8 03:39:39 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:39:49 <|3b|> with LET, the bindings are not visible to any of the initialization forms of that LET 03:40:11 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 03:40:22 In my post, the sum of x and w was 85. 77+8. Is that non-standard behavior? 03:40:23 <|3b|> so in (let ((w 1) (x w)) ...) the initialization of X uses the W from the enclosing scope, not the binding created by that LET 03:40:28 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:41 <|3b|> Molly_Az: yes, it is non-standard 03:40:50 Hmmm.. 03:40:54 <|3b|> Molly_Az: because there is no outer W with which to initialize the X 03:40:57 Molly_Az: the code is non-standard. The behaviour is implementation dependent, but outside the scope of the standard. 03:41:12 So, no, it's not non-standard, but it's not standard either. 03:41:18 Molly_Az: You can't change the value of a binding that doesn't exist 03:41:21 but if Molly_Az were to use defparameter, the code would be standard 03:41:28 Like you do in (setq w 77) 03:41:38 <|3b|> many implementations let you use SETF on non-existant variables, but might do slightly different things with it 03:41:50 Most implementations will let you do that, mainly for convinience when using the repl 03:41:53 in practice, it will pretty much work for simple cases in the repl 03:41:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:42:03 |3b| the x uses the value of w (in setq)? 03:42:08 but learning how dynamic variables work should be done before it's used in code 03:42:11 moral of the story: use defparameter instead of setq in your example 03:42:17 then worry about the difference between let and let* 03:42:32 Molly_Az: x will be bound to 77 03:42:33 <|3b|> Molly_Az: except that using setq on an undefined variable isn't specified to work 03:42:34 which is the important bit 03:42:48 slyrus: Before the let right? 03:42:51 <|3b|> Molly_Az: and W is not a variable when you evaluate (setq w 77) 03:42:54 yes 03:43:08 the pedants of #lisp don't like the fact that clisp happens to work by accident using setq on unbound variables when defparameter is the proper tool for that job 03:43:22 Molly_Az: if you did (defparameter w 77), then w would exist as a variable in the toplevel scope 03:43:25 but the thing the author is trying to get across is the difference between let and let*, I imagine 03:43:26 officially 03:43:31 Ok. Much better. 03:43:49 Would sbcl be a better distro? 03:44:01 sbcl will yell at you more, which definitely helps in learning :) 03:44:03 sure, but that's not the point either 03:44:04 Molly_Az: Don't worry about that right now 03:44:10 :) 03:44:11 <|3b|> it would have complained when you did (setq w 77), which might or might not qualify as 'better' 03:44:12 the point is that the author should have used defparameter 03:44:53 I also have gnu cl 03:44:59 run away! 03:45:07 *Molly_Az* laughs 03:45:24 Molly_Az: I wouldn't use GCL except to compile maxima. 03:45:26 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA22839.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:45:33 cmucl? 03:45:34 gcl is pretty much a dead project 03:45:49 pkhuong: What special magic does GCL have that makes it better for maxima? 03:45:49 as drdo said, don't worry about your lisp implementation at the moment. they're probably all fine for the moment. 03:46:17 <|3b|> sbcl, ccl, clisp are good general choices, others if you have specific needs that they handle better 03:46:18 Ok. I'll substitute defparameter for setq 03:46:26 drdo: maxima and gcl were codeveloped in a strange and slightly incestuous manner. 03:46:48 You only need use defparameter once. Then after that, setq on the toplevel is officially supported 03:46:57 eh, i've used maxima with sbcl with no trouble, never tried with gcl though, maybe it suddenly reads my mind 03:47:00 setq is used only to modify an existing variable? 03:47:06 Molly_Az: yes 03:47:06 yep 03:47:14 Ok. 03:47:16 Molly_Az: and mind the names! defparameter and defvar introduce special variables, they should be named with stars if you don't want to spend two days debugging. 03:47:38 I'd just use LET in general... 03:47:42 *var* would be a global? 03:47:44 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:47:46 (defvar *w* 77) (let ((w 8) (x *w*)) (+ x w)) 03:47:49 spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 03:47:52 Molly_Az: no. 03:47:57 <|3b|> *var* is a 'special' variable, which is what CL uses in place of globals 03:48:02 Phoodus: of course, that wouldn't expose the author's point. 03:48:04 the 'earmuffs' keep the two from trampling each other 03:48:07 I see. 03:48:07 Molly_Az: defvar and defparameter define variables that are BOTH global and special. 03:48:12 Phoodus: nested lets are more like it. 03:48:20 You can make variables that are special but not global. You would still call them with stars. 03:48:24 s/call/name/ 03:48:38 Molly_Az: special variables use what's sometimes called dynamic scope 03:48:52 Molly_Az: you might want to take a look at http://gigamonkeys.com/book/variables.html 03:49:20 Is this Peter himself? 03:49:23 Quadrescence: Have you seen (A simple algorithm for the evaluation of the hypergeometric series using quasi-linear time and linear space) ? 03:50:05 Molly_Az: yup. 03:50:07 drdo: nowdays, maxima has been made conforming. So it can run with any conforming CL implementation, not just on gcl. 03:50:15 gigamonkey: Thanks. I've bookmarked that link. 03:50:21 drdo: therefore gcl is dead, since it losts its only reason to be used. 03:50:25 :-) 03:50:50 Thanks for the book Peter! It was quite nice of you to place it online for free. 03:50:57 ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-111-147.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:51:54 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:52:04 *Molly_Az* adjusts the code sample in the book. One sec. 03:52:14 Molly_Az: No problem. Enjoy. 03:52:26 ;) 03:52:31 (you're adjusting the book?) 03:53:23 *Molly_Az* laughs. The Successful Lisp book. I'll have to spend time looking at gigamonkey's book this summer. 03:54:06 "The Successful (at provoking #)Lisp Book" 03:54:21 pjb: I hear some stuff in maxima still execute significantly faster in GCL than in any other CL. 03:54:39 Hmmm. I wonder if there are any bits of PCL that provoke the #lisp pedants? 03:55:07 I hope not, as I'm as pedantic as the next guy. 03:55:28 Molly_Az annotated #122650 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122650#2 03:55:46 http://paste.lisp.org/+2MMY/2 03:56:02 Molly_Az: does that output surprise you? 03:56:03 Molly_Az: we got it the first time ;) 03:56:07 Ok. I edited the code as per the suggestions. 03:56:19 gigamonkey: actually, I've only ever seen it used to *settle* arguments, not start them. 03:56:40 pkhoung: Oh, sorry. This is an update. 03:56:55 -!- jdz [~jdz@host164-16-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:57:12 Molly_Az: the bot linked it before you did :P 03:57:17 Molly_Az: you forgot the asterisks, aka "earmuffs" 03:57:23 Oh, ok. 03:57:50 x is bound to value of w in the defparameter line? 03:58:00 yes 03:58:10 d'oh. 03:58:13 yes, inside the let definitions, the expressions can't see the peer definitions 03:58:22 so it sees the outer w 03:58:59 asterisks would allow the value inner value to be seen? 03:59:10 no, asterisks are just a naming convention 03:59:13 Molly_Az: no, it's just a stylistic convention 03:59:19 for special variables 03:59:19 ok. 03:59:23 no, asterisks just keep your toplevel/special/global variables visually distinguished from local variables 03:59:27 *Molly_Az* nods. 03:59:49 which, as mentioned above, if you did it properly would remove the point the author is trying to make with his constructed example :) 04:00:33 <|3b|> Phoodus: you can bind *w* in the let too and preserve the point 04:00:36 (defun test-let (w) (let ((w 42) (x (1+ w)) x)) seems like a more compliant example. 04:00:46 true 04:00:48 |3b|: but then you introduce dynamic scoping. 04:01:16 I see. Would the value of w change outside the let? In the body (adding x and w), the value of w, I thought, should be 77. 04:01:22 <|3b|> pkhuong: sort of, i agree a let or function would be better though 04:02:00 I notice a lot of "Oooh, what do you think will happen here?" cases that tutorial authors bring up edge cases end up confusing the new reader more than helping :-P 04:02:16 at least, some of them are brought in too early to be properly understod 04:02:42 Molly_Az: Why do you think w should be 77 in the let body? 04:02:44 *gigamonkey* is really curious whether if Molly_Az went and read the PCL chapter on variables right now, if all her questions would be answered. 04:02:56 The let would create a local scope for w (8), but the original value (77) would be 'restored' once the let ended? 04:02:57 you bound it to 8 04:03:15 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-134-206.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:33 pkhuong, yes, and it's depressing, because this method has been known for probably 30 years 04:03:34 gigamonkey: :) Probably. /me contemplates doing that very thing. 04:03:46 gigamonkey: else we will have to link Ron Garret's tutorial. 04:03:53 Qworkescence: is it the one you pasted a couple months ago? I haven't read the paper yet. 04:04:06 felideon: yikes. 04:04:13 pkhuong, No. I probably pasted my book 04:04:44 *Molly_Az* googles. 04:06:28 :-O There's an insulting title. 04:07:07 Qworkescence: I mean, the method. 04:07:31 Aside from gigamonkeys book, suggestions for a beginners guide (online tut.)? 04:07:40 pkhuong, I explain the method in my book 04:07:48 Molly_Az: cliki.net has all the pointers. 04:07:54 pkhuong, oh, I think I understand 04:07:58 pkhuong, yes it is the same method 04:08:10 Molly_Az: Successful Lisp is online, has a lot of quick to the point stuff 04:08:18 Thanks pjb. 04:08:47 Qworkescence: sad. There's some hacker lore that seems to keep getting rediscovered by academics. 04:08:58 jdz [~jdz@87.4.39.57] has joined #lisp 04:09:14 pkhuong, It's not even hacker lore, it has been published in several papers and books :( 04:09:26 *Molly_Az* grins. Thanks ehine1. That title caused a slight brouhaha within the last 20 minutes or so. 04:09:39 Was that the thing in HAKMEM? 04:09:39 I'd even say that perhaps that person plagiarized... 04:09:45 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:09:54 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has joined #lisp 04:09:58 pkhuong, namely because of the similarity between that paper and others I've read 04:10:26 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:29 (some #'identity list) <- is there a standard function with a name than would better convey the intent than #'identity? something like truep would be nice 04:11:04 (notany (function null) list) 04:11:17 (complement #'null)? :) 04:11:21 (notany (function not) list) ; if that's the intent. 04:11:44 kennyd: note that pjb has a fetish for spelling out #' 04:11:47 Sorry, s/notany/notevery/ 04:11:50 *Molly_Az* experiences an epiphany re: lisp and scope. 04:12:35 gigamonkey++ 04:12:53 Yay! 04:13:00 :) 04:13:33 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 04:14:12 pnq [~nick@AC81BBF4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:14:19 (notany #'null list) is actually different. I'm checking if some value is non-null 04:14:45 kennyd: de morgan disagrees. 04:14:57 (notevery (function null) list) <=> (some (function identity) list) 04:15:15 it's some, sorry, not every. 04:15:33 Am I the only one here that feels a wave of excitement ripple then dreams of proving strong ai by writing a state-of-the-art robot with world class nlp capability (among other intellectual capabilities - vision, sentience)? I suspect I'm not. 04:15:40 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.214.254] has quit [Quit: I'm falling...UPRIGHT! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCF_mHKBH3k] 04:15:58 Molly_Az: you're not, that's the reason why I program in lisp. 04:16:22 *Molly_Az* pats the arm of pjb. I completely understand. 04:16:33 That sounds really amazing 04:16:42 until you realize how pathetic our computers are 04:17:05 Well, the hardware doesn't matter, we use virtual machines. 04:17:24 Once we know what kind of virtual machine we need, the hardware will follow suit. 04:17:34 The idea is *extremely* exciting. My friends would (have) teased me about something so "geeky" but I am unfazed. 04:17:35 hardware matters if you'd like your robot to do anything remotely interesting in your lifetime 04:18:04 drdo: well, then, robot hardware is even worse than computer hardware... 04:18:13 Molly: Then I suggest doing something other than dreaming. 04:18:24 Stupid question: What is "nlp" here? 04:18:26 Molly_Az, Wait till you hear my rants about my waves of excitement of writing world class computer algebraic algorithms 04:18:33 Bike, natural language processingf 04:18:34 -f 04:18:48 ah, thought so 04:19:01 drdo: Chips with grapheme (sp?) and multicore processors. 04:19:02 I only dream of a decent compiler (or MIP solver, but that's another story ;) 04:19:22 pkhuong, Are you writing a compiler that's not SBCL? :) 04:19:23 Molly_Az: graphene. 04:19:34 Thanks. 04:19:46 I'd settle for a nice OS 04:19:52 I don't see super robots to be happy 04:19:55 *need 04:20:01 Qworkesence: Symbolic algebra? 04:20:03 Qworkescence: from time to time. SBCL could do a lot of things better ;) 04:20:30 pkhuong, Like what? 04:20:41 drdo: Augmenting your current happiness level maybe? 04:20:51 I don't want much, just a yottabyte of memristor RAM 04:21:32 Phoodus, how about enough bits to address those bytes? 04:21:33 Phoodus: RAM is slow as molasses nowadays 04:21:37 Qworkescence: compile faster, minimal common subexpression elimination, use its flow-sensitive analysis for code generation, ... 04:22:07 pkhuong, well why didn't you say so! I'd be all up on many of these things (well okay, you only listed a few) 04:22:19 *Molly_Az* envisions a #lisp participant writing a self-modifying lisp program which achieves sentience and becomes "a serious international problem". 04:22:30 Qworkescence: "interesting" support for runtime compilation (e.g. inlining literal closures). 04:22:34 molly: So, what does 'sentience' mean? 04:22:57 Qworkescence: 80 bits, so existing 128-bit archs should work fine :) 04:23:26 I don't even think there exist true 128 bit archs [for actual computation, not just addressing], but I could be wrong. 04:24:36 More scalable and reliable than erlang. 30-40 million lines of densely packed code. /me looks out the window in paranoid fashion. 04:25:57 Qworkescence: I read this week somewhere that Intel new processors will have 128-bit instructions. 04:26:24 pjb: more like 256. 04:26:41 Perhaps. 04:26:45 non simd? 04:26:48 Not that this is for addressing, or even general purpose arithmetic. 04:26:49 pjb, But what does that mean? Some special purpose instructions for doing something obscure, or widening the actual registers to allow 128 bits to be operated on? 04:26:56 pjb: Within what time frame? Retail I mean? 04:27:21 I didn't really gave it any attention. 04:27:27 steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 04:27:29 *Molly_Az* nods. 04:29:26 Why aren't there any smug PostScript weenies around? 04:29:53 I used to be a somewhat smug PS weenie, if that counts 04:29:56 Apple basically killed them with Aqua, and Adobe with PDF. 04:30:40 one of our older products used a postscript derivative as its scripting language, with a nice quota & permission model based on the dictionary stacks 04:30:42 Moreover, LaserWriter motherboards, that used to be the most powerful computers Apple sold at some time, aren't so powerful anymore compared to current hardware. 04:30:56 sellout-: you around? 04:31:09 nvm 04:31:30 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:31:57 I've just been battling an annoying image issue all day. :V 04:32:23 ah, well I haven't done any graphics of consequence with PS, only programming :) 04:32:48 Well the issue is probably programmatic. 04:33:00 (and it's been many years) 04:33:06 haha 04:33:10 (and it's a write-only language, so don't even ask) ;) 04:33:13 Phoodus: that said, most system come with nice Postscript interpreters (eg. ghostscript on linux). 04:33:17 Phoodus, You can't weasle your way out of this one. 04:33:49 *Phoodus* weasels with great vehemence 04:33:51 Well, nowadays, I'd implement CL on Postscript before doing anything else with it... 04:34:17 pjb, well I'm using CL to generate the PS. Does that count? 04:34:24 Good enough. 04:34:32 forthlikes are great codegen targets 04:34:57 Phoodus, so much you know 04:35:18 *Molly_Az* wanders off to prepare dinner. Thanks for the help. Thanks again for the book Peter. 04:35:43 -!- Molly_Az [~chatzilla@174-26-102-164.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 04:36:11 sellout-: nvm on that nvm, actually 04:37:29 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:41:37 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-74-233-75-115.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:41:40 slyrus: nvm^3! 04:41:41 er 04:41:42 sellout-: ^ 04:44:09 There's no way to *un*load a package, right? 04:45:04 Ralith: You don't load packages, so ... 04:45:05 benny [~benny@i577A3624.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:45:32 But you can delete a package using delete-package. 04:45:44 I'd check carefully to make sure that you understand your question. 04:46:19 you correctly interpreted it, I believe 04:46:30 We, yes. But what about YOU? 04:46:42 my intended meaning was along the lines of 'reverse the effect of loading a file containing a package definition' 04:46:52 Ralith: Then, no. 04:46:56 oh? 04:47:02 There's no way to reverse the effect of loading a file. 04:47:02 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:47:10 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 04:47:16 Ralith: entropy, etc. 04:47:23 loading a file which does nothing other than define a package, though? 04:47:30 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:47:35 pjb: lol 04:47:44 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 04:48:04 agh what the hell 04:48:10 Yes, if there's only a defpackage or make-package form, without any other side effect, deleting the package might be enough. 04:48:12 If delete-package does what you want, then that's fine -- in the future check the hyperspec first. 04:48:27 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:48:32 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-165-164-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:49:14 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has joined #lisp 04:51:54 superflit [~superflit@97-122-100-201.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:52 sellout-: does your system only have the .so.1 variants of the llvm lib? 04:53:54 er 04:53:55 namings 04:54:55 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 05:00:16 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:01:12 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:54 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-246-28.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:06:07 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:17 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has joined #lisp 05:06:37 -!- ebzzry [~rmm@208.72.159.209] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:06:42 ebzzry [~rmm@208.72.159.209] has joined #lisp 05:07:46 hohum_ [~dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:08 -!- hohum [~dcorbe@8.17.5.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:09:19 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-21-225.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 05:10:12 -!- joekarma [ae06ec62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.6.236.98] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:11:46 stis [~stis@host-95-201-90-157.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 05:13:19 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:08 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-mcmdornfjuuxahhv] has joined #lisp 05:19:08 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-mcmdornfjuuxahhv] has quit [Changing host] 05:19:08 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:27:12 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-134-206.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:30:40 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:35:04 rncarpio [rncarpio@ppp-69-238-168-65.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:58 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-148-1.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:18 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: cafesofie] 05:48:08 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:49:42 idulmeu [~idulmeu@78.97.232.116] has joined #lisp 05:50:05 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:50:54 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:52:36 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 06:00:14 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81BBF4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:00:30 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-115-170-235.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:03:17 -!- xpf [~xpf@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:04:55 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:05:00 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:05:46 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:06:59 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:08:19 should a macro that iterates over all the files in a directory be called do-all-files or with-all-files ? 06:09:11 do-all-files-in-directory looks more idiomatic. 06:09:21 but should that be a macro? 06:09:45 flip214: it could be a macro that expands into call-with-all-files-in-directory. 06:09:59 of course 06:10:42 yeah that's what I'm doing. making a macro wrapper over cl-fad:walk-directory 06:10:54 which accepts a function 06:11:19 note that CL's do* macros are careful to: allow declarations to affect the bound variables, have an implicit NIL block, and an implicit tagbody 06:11:20 but perhaps it would be better to provide an extension for iterate ... (iter (for f = in-directory ".") ...) 06:11:29 whether you want to do all that as well is your call. 06:12:12 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:13:27 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-166-149.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 06:13:31 this is how I did it. any issues with it? 06:13:56 kennyd pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122652 06:15:32 would extension to iterate be more appropriate? also not sure what "have an implicit NIL block, and an implicit tagbody" is suppose to mean 06:16:38 kennyd: just that the expansion has (block nil ...) and the body is wrapped in (tagbody ...) 06:16:45 <|3b|> seems like you might evaluate MATCH more than you might want 06:16:51 kennyd: iterate extension is nice, but then you need to use iterate always (: 06:17:22 (not such a bad thing imho, but sometimes do-all-files-in-directory is more expressive) 06:17:40 <|3b|> NIL block would let you return something specific from that form with RETURN 06:17:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:20:00 <|3b|> standard do-foo macros tend to have a way to specify a return value in the parameter list as well 06:20:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 06:20:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 06:20:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:20:05 pkhuong annotated #122652 "Implicit block, etc." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122652#1 06:20:17 ok, I'll look into iterators later I haven't used them yet. and good point about evaluating match more than once, I missed that one 06:20:27 is that considered a problem? 06:20:34 multiple evaluation? definitely. 06:20:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 06:20:51 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:21:17 yeah when I think about it I can see why 06:21:26 if I passed (read-line in) as match for example 06:21:31 <|3b|> consider (do-all-files (file "./" (pop list-of-patterns)) ...), you probably only want it POPped once 06:21:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 06:21:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 06:21:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:21:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 06:21:48 <|3b|> right, reading is another good example 06:22:05 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0085.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 06:22:08 or just (really-expensive-computation) 06:24:21 to fix that I would have (let ((match-value (gensym "match-value"))) on top, and then use ,match-value instead of ,match in the quoted list? 06:25:01 <|3b|> you probably want to bind ,match-value inside the ` but yeah 06:25:20 <|3b|> bind it to the value of ,match that is 06:25:38 <|3b|> most utility libs probably have something like ONCE-ONLY for that purpose 06:26:11 you mean like this? 06:26:18 kennyd pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122653 06:27:20 or just meant to remove match-value all together, and use `(let ((match ,match)) 06:27:24 wislin [~user@118.122.165.4] has joined #lisp 06:27:33 or rather `(let ((,match ,match)) 06:28:17 *|3b|* meant something like the paste i think 06:28:47 xpf [~xpf@95.83.136.75] has joined #lisp 06:31:46 any LLVM users about? 06:34:29 Posterdati [~tapioca@host52-175-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 06:37:15 hi 06:38:48 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:38:56 Hi , everyone. 06:39:11 good morning 06:40:48 How many people use clozure cl here? 06:41:28 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 06:42:11 brknntr annotated #122653 "once-only" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122653#1 06:42:29 <|3b|> wislin: http://xach.livejournal.com/271794.html includes more than just here, but should give an idea 06:42:40 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-166-149.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:43:20 *|3b|* uses ccl sometimes, mostly sbcl though 06:43:59 |3b|: thanks, how are you find this web? 06:45:00 *|3b|* knew that page existed because the author mentioned it here, found it this time with a google search for lisp survey 06:45:11 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.87.148.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:45:25 <|3b|> (assuming that was the question being asked) 06:46:37 spiaggia` [~user@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 06:48:47 -!- spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:49:48 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 06:50:03 I find a CL-HTTP Primer (http://clhttp.typereview.com/) web, there are lot of example for cl-http. do you try it? 06:50:47 <|3b|> hunchentoot seems like the most popular web server here 06:52:13 Is it easy to use hunchentoot? 06:52:51 I can not find exmaple for how to use it/ 06:53:43 *|3b|* just uses the documentation at http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/ 06:54:47 I find this cl-http primer, and begin to research, but find cl-http not surport utf-8 character set. 06:56:04 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:56:20 can hunchentoot run on sbcl? 06:56:28 yes 06:56:35 -!- xpf [~xpf@95.83.136.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:56:49 frx [~frx@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 06:57:13 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:57:16 hi. is there a getopt-like option parsing library included in standard lib? 06:57:29 xpf [~xpf@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 06:57:39 Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:57:43 if not any recommendations for a third party library? 06:57:58 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-246-28.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:58:41 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7E9AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:00:56 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:02:00 -!- itegebo_ [~quassel@c-76-102-2-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:02:02 frx: there's no standard library as such, anyway, there is option parsing in CL 07:02:25 http://www.cliki.net/command-line%20options%20parser 07:02:54 this list doesn't look complete 07:03:26 there are more? which one is usually recommended 07:03:38 so, search cliki for more 07:03:54 i don't really know, i've never used one 07:06:17 -!- rncarpio [rncarpio@ppp-69-238-168-65.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [] 07:07:44 Where does using (lambda ...) vs. #'(lambda ...) make a difference? 07:08:00 -!- jdz [~jdz@87.4.39.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:09:31 ((lambda ...) ...) 07:10:06 Is that it? 07:10:21 macros that expand into that. 07:10:59 Thanks. 07:11:23 don't get it, aren't both ((lambda ...) ...) and (#'(lambda ...) ...) illegal? 07:11:39 one is legal. 07:11:52 The former is legal. 07:12:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-21-225.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:33 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:14:48 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 07:15:58 bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.91.166] has joined #lisp 07:17:14 -!- frx [~frx@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 07:17:33 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host52-175-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:19:23 Posterdati [~tapioca@host52-175-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:19:30 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 07:19:43 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-2-11.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:21:22 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21:22 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-246-28.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:23:22 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-90-10.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:25:21 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:27:33 hi 07:27:52 toekutr [~erik@adsl-69-107-103-102.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:44 itegebo [~quassel@c-76-102-2-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:09 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-41-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:06 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:26 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-yfjoencssfongitt] has joined #lisp 07:33:55 -!- r11t [~r11t@ec2-50-18-44-29.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:34:15 r11t [~r11t@ec2-50-18-44-29.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 07:36:21 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:39:28 rednum [~user@62-121-72-31.home.aster.pl] has joined #lisp 07:40:50 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:41:53 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755176.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:48 -!- toekutr [~erik@adsl-69-107-103-102.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:47:02 -!- nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 07:47:57 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-89-213.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:48:12 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:48:43 general-general [~marypatri@86-46-61-67-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:34 Guthur [c0c1f50f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.15] has joined #lisp 07:51:50 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-123-162.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:51:50 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:52:09 .. 07:53:09 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755176.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53:44 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 07:54:41 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 07:59:05 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:00:57 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:01:57 ziga [~ziga@stargate.fs.uni-lj.si] has joined #lisp 08:04:00 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:05:09 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.91.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:05:23 mvillene1ve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:05:31 Hrm... I wonder if rucksack's assumption that non-simple strings have a fill-pointer should be considered a bug. 08:05:36 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:05:43 -!- mvillene1ve is now known as mvilleneuve 08:12:11 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.132] has joined #lisp 08:19:00 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:22:35 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:26:15 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:29:48 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 08:32:00 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-158-146.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:32:50 -!- twbd|trnsp|cb|ex [~willem@91.177.188.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:34:35 twbd [~willem@91.177.102.102] has joined #lisp 08:35:15 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-90-10.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:36:25 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 08:36:32 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:37:36 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:38:05 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:40:13 -!- nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:43:12 Mornin'. Does SETF do the assignements in a guaranteed order (i.e. right to left)? 08:44:03 Or left to right? 08:44:07 easyE: left to right, IIRC 08:44:55 and there's psetf 08:46:28 I think I wanted PSETF. THanks! 08:55:33 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 08:56:38 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-69-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 09:01:03 -!- wislin [~user@118.122.165.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:47 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:56 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:07:56 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:07 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-lcgpfanwesavavbt] has joined #lisp 09:09:32 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-148-1.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 09:09:43 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 09:10:13 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10:32 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:17:57 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-240-240.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:19:10 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 09:19:22 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:36 flip214: hi 09:19:43 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:19:43 flip214: sys64738 09:19:50 ah, the old reset 09:20:28 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-148-1.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:37 ye olde reset 09:21:47 poke 53280,0 09:22:09 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 09:24:29 no the black screen no 09:24:33 poke 53281, 0 09:24:45 so black + black 09:24:59 I remember there was a software to achieve 139 colors 09:27:57 yes, by switching the 16 colors after a screen refresh around 09:28:26 the german C64 magazine wrote "256 colors" (wrongly) 09:28:29 rncarpio [rncarpio@ppp-69-238-168-65.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:57 *p_l|backup* notes that the superior Atari 800/65XE/130 supported possibility of having external GPU :P 09:33:49 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:35:16 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-69-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:35:39 Levente [~Levente@178.48.169.59] has joined #lisp 09:35:57 hi 09:36:44 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 09:37:56 -!- idulmeu [~idulmeu@78.97.232.116] has quit [] 09:38:19 idulmeu [~idulmeu@78.97.232.116] has joined #lisp 09:38:55 Levente: szia :) 09:39:32 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:39:33 fe[nl]ix, how is it going? 09:40:14 is there a way other than MAKE-ARRAY to make an adjustable string with initial contents? 09:40:44 make-string) 09:40:57 no, sorry 09:41:15 not meant for this window 09:42:56 Levente: AFAIK, there isn't 09:47:48 flip214: yes, but the program drawn all the cpu power :) 09:48:07 flip214: no other program could really take advantage of 139 colors lol 09:49:07 flip214: I don't recall if CIA has got an 8 bit timer 09:50:49 KaZ- [~textual@76.91.18.68] has joined #lisp 09:53:28 well, IIRC that was done via the raster-line-interrupt and by switching the bank for the video controller, so it didn't take much CPU 09:59:48 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:00:52 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 10:01:32 are symbol look up tables usually some form of hashtable? 10:04:33 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-227.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:58 -!- idulmeu [~idulmeu@78.97.232.116] has quit [] 10:05:46 add^_ [~add^_^@h235n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 10:07:00 Guthur: you mean packages? 10:08:05 yeah 10:08:49 IIRC there was an option in SBCL's defclass to define type safe slot accessors, what is it called? 10:09:20 Levente: what do you mean by "type safe slot accessor"? 10:10:01 jdz, that checks the value's type when I'm using the writer 10:10:41 Levente: there is :type slot option, but it is not SBCL specific 10:10:58 jdz, sure, but that is not checked by default 10:11:00 Levente: SBCL probably can be made to check the types at some safety levels 10:12:26 Guthur: at least in SBCL packages use hash-tables for symbol lookup, yes. why do you ask? 10:12:58 -!- KaZ- [~textual@76.91.18.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:45 jdz, it seems like locally declaring safety 3 around defclass does the trick 10:13:52 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 10:14:03 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-174-190.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:14:04 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Client Quit] 10:14:33 Levente: FWIW I use (safety 3) always when developing 10:16:03 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 10:16:23 jdz, somehow that doesn't work 10:16:37 jdz: language implementation, looking at implementing something in my spare time, and was wondering how this was often done, I suspected hashtables 10:19:11 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:30 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:27:36 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:54 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:36 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:33:11 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:33:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:34:47 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:37:15 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082A28F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:41 -!- stis [~stis@host-95-201-90-157.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:53 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p50829AEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:46:20 Levente Mészáros pasted "should this raise a type error in SBCL?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122661 10:46:33 could somebody verify this? 10:50:21 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 10:51:04 -!- itegebo [~quassel@c-76-102-2-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:52:09 Levente: I think that class slot checking is only implemented for (safety 3) 10:52:46 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 10:53:55 Krystof, oh, I confused debug with safety, thanks 10:54:02 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 10:55:38 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 10:55:54 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 10:56:16 itegebo [~quassel@c-76-102-2-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:31 markskil1eck [~mark@host81-152-166-164.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:57:27 what is the name of beach's CL components thing? 10:57:37 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 10:58:42 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:58:58 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:59:35 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 10:59:55 gor[e]_ [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 11:00:11 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:00:41 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-174-190.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:01:38 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:01:46 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host81-152-166-164.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:02:09 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 11:02:26 Guthur: SICL 11:05:38 acecool [~acecool@201.160.3.219.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #lisp 11:05:55 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-219.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:06:00 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Client Quit] 11:06:58 fe[nl]ix: cheers 11:07:01 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:07:23 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 11:07:34 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-227.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:08:19 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 11:08:32 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-227.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:00 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:09:26 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-akgvxjmvdmftzjas] has joined #lisp 11:09:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-akgvxjmvdmftzjas] has quit [Changing host] 11:09:35 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:09:55 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:10:19 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Client Quit] 11:10:40 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 11:12:16 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:16:48 longfin [~longfin@1.103.40.45] has joined #lisp 11:17:15 Ralith: I'm here now  11:17:59 -!- CallToPower is now known as CallToPowe 11:18:05 sellout-: I forget what I wanted to know! 11:18:12 I think I worked out whatever it is, though. 11:18:20 was* 11:18:22 oh right 11:18:23 I remember 11:18:35 sellout-: is there no libLLVM-whatever.so on your system? 11:19:03 -!- CallToPowe is now known as CallToPower 11:22:02 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.156.172] has joined #lisp 11:22:06 Ralith: I think only the one I installed  11:23:01 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 11:23:03 sellout-: what? 11:23:28 sellout-: I mean, does the .1 part of the .so.1 in the cffi library definition need to be there for it to work for you? 11:23:33 -!- acecool [~acecool@201.160.3.219.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:25:17 Ralith: Oh  no. I actually haven't tried it on a non-Darwin system. I think I needed to add that for it to work with Xach's QL test system or something. 11:25:56 huh, okay 11:26:00 I don't have a .1 on my system 11:26:01 both it is. 11:26:21 sellout-: also, 2.9 is out; know of any breakage? I get a few undefined alien warnings if I just go for it. 11:27:09 also, any idea why validate-* kills the process instead of using the return code as requested? 11:28:42 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:29:43 I don't know. I haven't had any time to work with it in the last two months. 11:30:01 Ralith: Where is validate-* defined? 11:31:17 er 11:31:20 meant verify-* 11:31:30 e.g. verify-module 11:33:41 CLISP's screen-package is always nice to quickly visualize something 11:37:56 -!- tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:38:31 Ralith: Hrmm, not sure why verify-* isn't behaving. Can you open an issue with a simple test? 11:39:07 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:20 sellout-: suretomorrow, though. 11:40:24 horribly late for bed as it is 11:40:39 might look into it myself, if it's not obvious to you 11:41:41 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43:12 tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has joined #lisp 11:43:37 -!- gor[e]_ [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:43:53 longfin_ [~longfin@175.218.83.128] has joined #lisp 11:44:14 Ralith: That would be even better :) 11:45:28 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:46:12 -!- longfin [~longfin@1.103.40.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:48:02 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:11 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0085.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:50:36 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:50:53 longfin [~longfin@211.246.72.158] has joined #lisp 11:51:29 g112wdh [~user@202.99.168.110] has joined #lisp 11:51:29 markskil1eck [~mark@host81-152-166-164.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:05 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.72.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:38 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@175.218.83.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:53:03 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:53:26 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.123.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:54:42 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-227.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:00:03 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:01:02 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 12:01:22 Hi I have this I wrote: (defun min-distance (mylist1 mylist2) (apply #'min (loop for j in mylist1 collect (loop for i in mylist2 minimize (abs (- i j))))))... 12:01:23 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:01:23 pnq [~nick@AC811B11.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:02:04 to calculate minimal distance such as (MIN-DISTANCE '(2 5 4) '(8 7 9 14)) will give 2 but why (MIN-DISTANCE '(2 5 4) nil) gives zero? 12:03:21 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:03:42 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:04:33 hmm, my min says that zero arguments are not allowed 12:05:11 strange! 12:07:43 could be to do with the fact (loop for i in nil minimize i) => 0 12:07:50 -!- g112wdh [~user@202.99.168.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:55 francogrex: I replaced the apply with format and found that 12:08:01 maybe that's obvious 12:08:04 (# (0 0 0)) 12:08:06 this gets called 12:08:15 longfin [~longfin@211.246.69.42] has joined #lisp 12:08:23 well, (apply #'min (0 0 0)) of course 12:09:14 (loop for i in nil minimize i) -> ! doesn't seem logic 12:10:49 longfin_ [~longfin@211.246.72.57] has joined #lisp 12:11:20 anyway I changed that using "sorts" of the 2 lists 12:11:50 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B814.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:25 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@211.246.72.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:13:20 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:14:31 francogrex: do you know in advance that the elements of the first list are smaller? 12:14:36 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:15:08 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 12:15:37 longfin [~longfin@211.246.72.57] has joined #lisp 12:16:27 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.72.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:12 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:17:27 longfin [~longfin@211.246.72.57] has joined #lisp 12:18:16 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:27 longfin_ [~longfin@211.246.73.72] has joined #lisp 12:19:49 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has joined #lisp 12:20:04 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@211.246.73.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:23 flip214: no they are random anyway I upadedt the function 12:21:27 updated 12:22:13 longfin_ [~longfin@211.246.73.72] has joined #lisp 12:22:22 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.72.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:22:34 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@211.246.73.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:04 longfin [~longfin@211.246.73.72] has joined #lisp 12:23:54 -!- clop2 [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:24:56 clop2 [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:54 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.73.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:47 longfin [~longfin@211.246.73.72] has joined #lisp 12:27:51 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:28:41 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.73.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:59 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:16 longfin [~longfin@121.167.199.160] has joined #lisp 12:30:44 longfin_ [~longfin@211.246.73.72] has joined #lisp 12:33:01 longfin__ [~longfin@211.246.69.18] has joined #lisp 12:33:43 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:34:02 -!- longfin [~longfin@121.167.199.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:34:11 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:12 -!- longfin__ [~longfin@211.246.69.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:51 longfin [~longfin@211.246.69.18] has joined #lisp 12:35:01 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:35:27 so I installed Quicklisp, that's pretty neat 12:35:52 also I downloaded the debian source package for clisp and some hyperlinked documentation 12:35:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:05 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.69.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:23 all seems very nice so far ^_^ 12:36:32 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@211.246.73.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:36:39 longfin [~longfin@211.246.69.18] has joined #lisp 12:36:43 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.69.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:53 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 12:41:33 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:46:56 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:47:38 -!- rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:47:40 -!- ryepup [~user@216.155.105.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:42 rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 12:47:56 ryepup [~user@216.155.105.115] has joined #lisp 12:48:03 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:29 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:51:06 taiyal: are you also using emacs? 12:51:15 ...and SLIME 12:51:16 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-69-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:52:16 DarkPlayer [~darkplaye@port-92-204-87-195.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:52:19 -!- DarkPlayer [~darkplaye@port-92-204-87-195.dynamic.qsc.de] has left #lisp 12:52:41 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:53:51 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:52 ... or VIM and SLIMV? 12:55:31 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:57:46 don't listen to flip214 he knows not of what he speaks 12:58:03 hehe, only joking whatever floats your boat 12:58:06 first they ignore you ... 12:58:38 Guthur: never mind, I believe that I have a thick skin 13:00:18 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 13:04:13 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 13:06:14 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:06:21 kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:36 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:07:21 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:07:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:10:21 -!- rednum [~user@62-121-72-31.home.aster.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:11:10 jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-zdyxhodhsmyuzfpv] has joined #lisp 13:11:30 mobydick [~textual@124-171-66-138.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:12:40 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@gw249-1.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 13:13:22 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:15:10 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:15:34 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:46 -!- jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-zdyxhodhsmyuzfpv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:49 jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-ulnnvqlwrumtnmxr] has joined #lisp 13:18:06 -!- ziga [~ziga@stargate.fs.uni-lj.si] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:45 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:22:31 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:24:45 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:25:00 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:22 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.33.85] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 13:30:19 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 13:33:53 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-66-138.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 13:33:54 Doesn't equal work for arrays? 13:34:10 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.254.199] has joined #lisp 13:34:15 clhs equal 13:34:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_equal.htm 13:34:16 I think that it depends on what you mean by 'work'. 13:34:18 there, go read 13:34:27 equal for arrays means eq 13:34:31 straight from clhs 13:34:34 Hi all! 13:34:47 Hello Bahman 13:36:07 Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:09 yes, thanks ... I noticed that it doesn't check each element. there's no array-equal, so what should I use? 13:36:16 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:22 flip214: equalp? 13:36:22 (equal (coerce ... 'list) (coerce ... 'list)) ?? 13:37:12 jdz: thanks, yes. didn't think that equal and equalp are different re arrays. 13:37:18 also, (every #'eql array-1 array-2) 13:37:37 flip214: just try to think less and check more 13:37:56 fwiw, I'd rather see the EVERY form if I were reading code 13:37:57 jdz: sorry, doesn't scale ;-) 13:38:02 flip214: i mean, you can think however much you want but it won't change the behaviour of equal or equalpy 13:38:05 equalp* 13:38:25 dlowe: it's for alexandria:define-constant, so probably doesn't really matter. 13:38:33 You could always write a function. :) 13:39:05 well, the EVERY is too simplified, it will only check elements for the shortest array 13:39:05 Zhivago: that's the scheme way 13:39:17 Ah. I forgot. 13:39:23 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.33.85] has joined #lisp 13:39:23 CL programmers never write functions ... 13:39:27 jdz: that wouldn't matter here, as the arrays of constant size 13:39:44 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.33.85] has quit [Client Quit] 13:40:01 Zhivago: no, of course they do. I meant "scheme way" in "re-inventing the wheel, badly" ;) 13:40:08 flip214: i'd still write a function named ARRAYS-SAME-P and add such assumptions as ASSERTS in the code 13:40:18 flip214: What's with the scheme hate? 13:40:24 Generally the comparison you want isn't what equalp gives you. 13:40:36 But it might be, so check very carefully. 13:41:08 drdo: no scheme hate at all ... just wary of having to re-implement the things that CL already has 13:41:37 (but, some time ago, I whined about CL's size ... ie. CL's "problem", IIRC) 13:42:08 Zhivago: no, equalp is fine for this case. 13:42:36 Be very careful -- it is a complex function :) 13:42:37 Joreji [~thomas@65-227.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:43:39 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:44:51 twem2 [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:05 was scheme hate not a prerequisite of #lisp 13:45:28 -!- twem2 [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has left #lisp 13:45:45 yes 13:45:50 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 13:46:08 and it still is not 13:46:23 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:35 xan_ [~xan@56.61.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:47:25 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-111-147.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: .] 13:48:29 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:31 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 13:50:10 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host81-152-166-164.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:53:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:51 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:54:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:55:02 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 13:57:42 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.33.85] has joined #lisp 13:57:45 -!- general-general [~marypatri@86-46-61-67-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:58:53 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.244.19] has joined #lisp 13:59:41 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:49 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:55 gffa_ [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:02:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:04:52 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:29 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:06:00 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3624.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:11:43 tokenrove [~julian@miranda.org] has joined #lisp 14:12:14 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-183.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:12:18 -!- tokenrove changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: anaphora 0.9.4, SBCL officially in Git, SBCL 1.0.49 released, slime-indentation changes in CVS, usocket 0.5.2, common-lisp.net is up again, ABCL 0.25 14:14:36 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-90-10.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 14:16:15 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:18:31 rindolf [~shlomi@bzq-109-67-109-223.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:28 -!- oconnore [~eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:22:15 oconnore [~eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:24 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.33.85] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 14:22:40 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.33.85] has joined #lisp 14:25:39 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.33.85] has quit [Client Quit] 14:27:10 -!- gffa_ is now known as gffa 14:29:23 nicdev [484a5525@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.74.85.37] has joined #lisp 14:30:10 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:24 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:32:10 benny [~benny@i577A3624.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:32:51 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:19 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 14:34:57 -!- pnq [~nick@AC811B11.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:35:42 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 14:40:16 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:40:33 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 14:40:57 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41:31 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 14:46:08 zilt [~zilt@67.23.13.119] has joined #lisp 14:47:30 -!- kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:47:48 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-158-146.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:04 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:51:40 loke [~elias@bb121-6-243-153.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:53:13 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has joined #lisp 14:55:06 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:50 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-153-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:58:59 -!- loke [~elias@bb121-6-243-153.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:12 loke [~elias@bb220-255-108-49.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:00:15 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:03:11 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:44 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 15:04:10 In writing a macro which attempts to precalculate the result if the arguments are constant. In other words, is the following code correct in the sense that I will never end up in a situation where I end up precalculating a value which can actually change: 15:04:17 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122669 15:04:36 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Client Quit] 15:04:45 My question is basically if my use of CONSTANTP is correct in the snippet above. 15:04:56 And EVAL, of course 15:05:33 use a compiler macro. 15:06:08 pkhuong: any particular reason to prefer that over a normal macro? 15:06:08 You can do (list* class-name method-name argument-types) instead of that append thing, can't you? 15:06:10 you rarely need eval in a macro and you certainly don't need it here 15:06:21 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-148-1.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:06:25 Bike: Oh, yeah. You're right. I can. I'll change it right away :-) 15:06:26 since constantp can use its environment and eval can't, that's not guaranteed to work either. 15:07:03 pkhuong: Mmm... I figured that I was tryin gto be too clever... 15:07:10 loke: compiler macros are transparent. People can only have to worry about the functional interface, and still get optimisations 15:07:23 -!- zilt [~zilt@67.23.13.119] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:07:39 pkhuong: well, even without the cleverness, I was using a macro in this case. 15:07:42 you can still try and write a simpler constantp. 15:08:49 pkhuong: Well, yeah. I was thinking about that. It really doesn't make any sense to pass anything but constant strings anyway, so I could probably use (typep x 'string) 15:09:15 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:09:39 My question, I suppose, is if CONSTANTP can introduce issues here, then what good is CONSTANTP? :-) 15:10:06 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:26 loke: you can expand into different code that performs better with constant folding. 15:10:45 still, clearly a job for a compiler macro. 15:11:08 Macro for syntax, compiler macro to specialise function calls. 15:11:31 pkhuong: well, in this case, I'll still be using the macro for syntax. Can a compiler macro expand into a macro call? 15:11:45 no. The macro can expand into a function call. 15:11:56 The compiler macro gets to play with the function call. 15:12:02 Ahh 15:12:03 I see 15:12:20 So compiler macros are processed after macroexpansion? I didn't know that. 15:12:21 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 15:12:25 Eataix [~eataix@CPE-121-223-198-253.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 15:12:33 Then again, I never bothered with compiler macros. I never though I'd need them :-) 15:12:46 not necessarily. But compiler macros match function calls. 15:14:04 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:14:16 also, you cannot funcall/apply a macro; if it's a compiler macro you can 15:14:33 Speaking of compiler macros, I've been wondering something for a while, and perhaps compiler macros is the explanation. In the SBCL source, the function CAR is defined as: (defun car(x) (car x)) 15:14:45 How does that work? Is there a compiler macro that does some magic? 15:15:32 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:16:42 jdz: thanks. I knew that :-) 15:16:52 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:55 jdz: It's not important in this case though, as it's a macro anyway 15:17:43 loke: well, it's not really magic. The compiler just open code any call to CAR, etc. 15:17:54 -!- Guthur [c0c1f50f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:18:33 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:18:33 pjb: Oh, so that happens at the level of the compiler? 15:18:33 The defun is there only to set up thing so that (funcall (symbol-function 'car) (cons 1 2)) work. 15:18:33 loke: yes. 15:18:45 pjb: In the C code? If I want to look at the actual underlying implementation of CAR, where do I look? 15:18:51 the (car x) inside the defun car doesn't refer to the same thing in the case of sbcl. 15:19:14 pjb: I figured as much, I just couldn't figure out what it's actually referring to. I didn't find anything in the lisp code 15:19:22 -!- nicdev [484a5525@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.74.85.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:19:32 loke: you would have to look in the compiler, I don't know exactly. Somewhere where it generate codes for specific functions such as CAR. 15:19:32 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@85.10.202.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:19:32 rvncerr [~rvncerr@85.10.202.107] has joined #lisp 18:29:25 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:25 18:29:25 -!- names: ccl-logbot milanj rme Demosthenex enthymeme homie sellout- cbbrowne sabalaba rpg cbp rdd srid Xantoz anonchik markskilbeck HG`` pyrony LiamH1 cmm dlowe1 Guthur splittist general-general groundnuty sacho bsod1 amb007 pdlogan ikki morphling taiyallica dstatyvka Kenjin nicdev_ kruth iwillig zbigniew CrazyEddy yroeht yan_ cYmen dlowe mpereira Quetzalcoatl_ katesmith vert2 kephas rvncerr lnostdal-laptop loke Bike drdo mindCrime Davidbrcz oconnore araujo 18:29:25 -!- names: kennyd gffa BlankVerse Munksgaard mrSpec rmar|mtng felideon Soulman bgs100 jweiss replore_ martinhex ryepup rabite sbryant_work taiyal schoppenhauer clop2 Kajtek Yuuhi lolsuper_ Jasko2 tvaalen tritchey gemelen itegebo daniel__ chr` add^_ clog rncarpio Harag Krystof twbd mishoo setheus Zephyrus insomniaSalt r11t seangrove ignas Posterdati xpf spiaggia` hohum_ ebzzry superflit ubii _8david antoszka fe[nl]ix algorist_ m4dnificent yhvh DrForr derekv antgreen 18:29:25 -!- names: amaron naiv s0ber y3llow dmiles_afk sonnym bzzbzz Amadiro cracauer churib peddie afa aoh AntiSpamMeta prip gigamonkey muhdick Phoodus Daev pjb __class__ Nshag ezakimak excelsior1979 hypno jiacobucci arbscht hugod Intensity phryk spurvewt redline6561 Scriptor convulsive fihi09` ehine1 Euthydemus` eno kleppari slyrus johanbev milkpost nullman pchrist sid3k` jcazevedo Landr chemuduguntar mathrick peterhil` Oddity srcerer rtoym xinming beach boyscared 18:29:25 -!- names: billitch hydo qlife Tristam theBlackDragon Buganini quasisane tempire cpt_nemo pinterface Quadrescence reb Yamazaki-kun joshe rsynnott naryl Dodek Ralith Zhivago lundis housel xristos ilmari jrockway felipe ecraven ramus tomaw lonstein kanru mornfall guther luis cmbntr_ billstclair setmeaway Axioplase_ erk Borbus C-Keen codewad krl Katibe alfa_y_omega finnrobi callen egn kjellkt sirmacik ok2 specbot timjstewart1 colazero tychoish sausages df_aldur 18:29:25 -!- names: Bootvis_ _main_ jkantz cods shachaf ianmcorvidae tty234 a7p dcrawford literal yahooooo _death BrianRice easyE` sykopomp Pepe_ PissedNu1lock Hun ``Erik k9quaint z0d sshirokov CallToPower erg larva kloeri ve tic ozzloy rotty_ |3b| phadthai PuffTheMagic Odin- lnostdal cipher REPLeffect frodef stepnem lisppaste merodach schmrkc cataska elliottjohnson em fmu johs guaqua Adrinael kpal djinni` tessier klutometis freiksenet aperturefever Fade j_king lusory 18:29:25 -!- names: jfleming dostoyevsky _krappie_ Obfuscate SpitfireWP albino jsnell Tordek jeekl pkhuong _3b fds koollman ocharles herbieB wivlaro Xof mtd deepfire elliottcable p_l|backup antifuchs zfx levi kencausey Jabberwockey spacebat zakwilson Aisling jamief rootzlevel ivan4th easyE OliverUv nuba njan Bucciarati galdor ineiros hyko euphidime pok_ ASau foom wtetzner akkartik acieroid Jasko froggey cmatei vsync Pathin cpc26 Patzy dboswell rahul scode ^micro incandenza 18:29:25 -!- names: mal__ oGMo pp206 18:30:11 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@199.83.220.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:30:14 0: Foreign function lose, fp = 0x7ffff4ad4a40, ra = 0x40f450 18:30:35 Harag: have you followed the advice from 2007 http://goo.gl/NBBIh? 18:30:37 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:26 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:32:50 (http://goo.gl/KW3j4 presents a threaded view of the discussion from 2007) 18:34:03 reading it now 18:35:13 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.244.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:38:31 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:41 carlocci [~nes@93.37.214.195] has joined #lisp 18:40:11 easyE: so basically all you can do is close your eyes and hope it does not happen again 18:44:22 *Fade* thinks antifuchs should be pimping cucumber a bit more. :) 18:44:39 I think so too! 18:44:46 it's really pretty wonderful 18:45:06 the endtimes must be near; i'm finding out about lisp projects on twitter. :) 18:45:11 haha 18:45:27 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:41 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:47:19 stis [~stis@host-90-235-77-23.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:47:34 Harag: that's a corrupt heap. 18:47:41 https://github.com/antifuchs/clucumber/README.md is still talking about clbuild 18:49:17 davazp [~user@252.Red-83-43-235.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:37 Fade that link gave a 404 18:50:22 wondering what the fate of clbuild ended up being, I just noticed clbuild 2.0 18:50:36 pnq [~nick@ACA28311.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:04 I think some still use it 18:52:29 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 18:52:29 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 18:52:29 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:52:49 sheesh well, close your eyes and dont do a (sb-ext:gc :full t) ever! 18:53:27 unexpect forwarding pointer in scavenge: 0x1016f70000, start=0x1015770d28, n=% 18:53:38 If i have a function like this: (defun foo (&rest x) something) and a list (1 2 3) containing the arguments i want to give foo, is there a good way to do that? 18:55:28 Guthur: that's because I assembled it by hand from the displayed link in my browser. 18:55:35 https://github.com/antifuchs/clucumber 18:55:52 Fade: oh yes, I need to change this 18:56:03 also, I need to check compat with cucumber 0.10.x 18:56:21 stis_ [~stis@host-90-235-77-23.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:56:32 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-77-23.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:56:53 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0101.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 18:57:28 why do you need to install clucumber via rubygem? 18:58:08 felideon: because it hooks into cucumber. in a way, it's more of a ruby project than a lisp one (: 18:58:21 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-123-53.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:21 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-123-53.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:58:21 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 18:58:22 ah gotcha 18:58:43 felideon: I tried making an asdf system for it, and to make that work, I'd have had to invoke rubygems... not a good idea usually (: 18:58:56 right 18:58:58 oh right: (apply #'foo '(1 2 3)) will do 18:59:12 that does make clucumber a bit peculiar in terms of general lisp ecology. :) 18:59:41 haha, it does ((: 19:00:05 hum. I have successfully avoided ruby so far. 19:00:06 perhaps no more. 19:00:30 well, the env.rb file in README.md and the rubygem invocation should be all you need to get started with clucumber 19:01:30 do people actually develop applications like this? 19:01:47 for web apps, it's a huge win 19:01:57 and for others, too. my cl-beanstalk test suite is pretty nice (: 19:02:38 once it can run tests, you can just write feature specs, and don't need to worry about code too much 19:02:44 allows you to test your code with more data : 19:03:27 closing my eyes and rebooting 19:03:34 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-240-240.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 19:03:55 antifuchs: update https://github.com/antifuchs/cl-beanstalk/blob/master/README.md while you're at it :D 19:04:11 oh damn, yes (: 19:04:34 man, open your mouth and suddenly everybody wants you to work. :D 19:04:39 hahaha 19:04:47 there are worse fates, I'm sure 19:05:02 oh, of that, I have little doubt. 19:05:11 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-240-240.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:05:50 suncica2222 [dfgfdgdfgd@P1-121.internet.krstarica.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:35 (funcall ;zove fju sa argumentima 19:06:35 (cdr (assoc (read) '((v . crtaj-gornju) 19:06:44 Harag: In my experience SBCL should be *much* more stable than what you're seeing. I'm not an SBCL developer, but I'm sure they would be interested in what kind of stress your putting SBCL to have such failures. You using sbcl-1.0.49? 19:06:51 what does . mean here? 19:06:54 . 19:07:08 easyE: yes 19:07:31 suncica2222: it's 'dotted' notation because the cdr of the list doesn't point to nil. 19:08:43 you can see this in simple terms by doing something like (cons 'a 'b) 19:08:55 => (A . B) 19:09:20 easyE: i am loading 386 megs from a file into a btree that will end up having a million nodes...nothing that stressfull 19:09:32 two atoms? 19:09:47 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:10:37 -!- rncarpio [rncarpio@ppp-69-238-168-65.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [] 19:11:12 Harag: LIke I said, I'm not an sbcl developer. I would try to get a reproducible case. Can you generate random data for that b-tree, or does the failure *have* to come from your disk representation? 19:11:27 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:11:35 its random data 19:12:20 i was trying a full gc just to see if it would clean up some of the 2.8 gigs of memory sbcl consumed to load the file 19:12:30 You know the SBCL launchpad instance? Hunt there for a similar bug, and if you don't find anything, file a new bug. 19:13:12 (dotimes (j (array-dimension new-array 1)) 19:13:19 what does 1 mean? 19:13:30 it seems to be doing ok now I will keep my repl session just incase it goes splat again 19:15:22 spoke to soon...hehehe 19:15:41 ok I am confident that I can reproduce it consistently 19:16:39 ? 19:17:04 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:17:50 suncica2222: http://l1sp.org/search?q=array-dimension 19:17:56 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:03 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:17 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has joined #lisp 19:18:41 thanx 19:20:42 dont understand what axis-number does? 19:20:51 minion: tell suncica2222 about PCL 19:21:38 bah. http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book <-- an excellent introductory text on the subject of common lisp. 19:21:40 *taiyallica* just read about dotted pairs 19:21:47 I'm surprised LISP even lets you do that 19:22:00 -!- dlowe1 [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:22:17 taiyallica: why? It's just conses. There is no list. 19:22:25 taiyallica: ...why? 19:22:49 I guess i'm just used to programming languages that aren't as flexible as LISP, heh 19:22:51 *Fade* waits for the matrix quote ... 19:23:25 it was all neo's fault! 19:23:33 lol 19:23:44 gmlk [~gmlk@alice.ipq.co] has joined #lisp 19:23:56 I am 100% new to LISP, but I'm liking what I'm reading so far 19:24:15 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.214.195] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 19:24:20 Fade: "I know kung fu."? 19:24:41 felideon: "There is no spoon." 19:25:16 *Fade* touches his nose and points to pnq 19:25:47 You don't need to capitalize all of "LISP", by the way, "Lisp" is fine 19:26:14 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:59 -!- gmlk [~gmlk@alice.ipq.co] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:29:09 taiyallica: cons cells are more than just singly-linked list cells. They're generic two-tuples 19:31:06 lifp 19:31:16 oh dear 19:31:22 lifp now or nevar 19:31:28 you mean lithp? 19:31:42 no, no, lifp 19:31:47 lol 19:32:04 pnq: was kidding :) 19:32:08 boy, that's a joke that never gets old. :) 19:33:03 programmer stand-up comedy, the next big thing 19:34:57 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:35:55 -!- suncica2222 [dfgfdgdfgd@P1-121.internet.krstarica.com] has left #lisp 19:39:34 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:39:47 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:40:53 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0101.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:41 urandom__ [~user@p548A6056.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:06 hi 19:44:28 Hi oconnore. What's new and exciting? 19:44:41 so, why is this example from lisp.org/mop/concepts.html not working? 19:44:45 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122676 19:44:49 i'm looking for some help :) 19:45:28 i'm in clozure cl 19:45:36 define "working" 19:45:54 does the error message you get give you a clue? 19:46:07 i put the error message in the annotation 19:46:21 it says the meta classes are incompatible 19:47:03 drdo: compiling? 19:47:11 oh well. In sbcl the error message explicitly tells you what you need to do 19:47:34 oh, well that's nice 19:47:47 should i compile it in sbcl to see, or can you enlighten me? 19:47:52 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 19:48:17 i couldn't find anything on incompatible metaclasses 19:49:14 top hit on google for "incompatible metaclasses" seems to give relevant information 19:49:27 oconnore: You might want to read AMOP 19:49:35 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-183.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 19:50:52 Krystof: I see some internal ibm link and some Perl CPAN stuff, what google are you using? 19:51:53 drdo: is there a version available online? 19:52:07 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:10 oconnore: sbcl says "The class # was specified as a super-class of the class #, but the meta-classes # and # are incompatible. Define a method for SB-MOP:VALIDATE-SUPERCLASS to avoid this error." 19:53:44 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:53:46 thanks Bike. I will look at validate-superclass now. 19:54:26 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:57 oconnore: Actually, I think the problem is that you implicitly specified POINT's superclass as STANDARD-OBJECT, but that doesn't work because they have different metaclasses; not to familiar with MOP though. 19:55:04 *too 19:55:23 oconnore: if you google "incompatible metaclasses lisp" does the first hit help? 19:56:40 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-153-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:56:50 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-183.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 19:59:15 odd. Maybe my swiss-affiliated chrome has remembered that I love the derkheiler.com comp.lang.lisp archive 19:59:17 (I don't) 20:00:31 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0084.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 20:00:36 anyway, yes, you need to explicitly declare which metaclasses are compatible with each other. The idea is basically that I can define my own magical metaclass, and splittist can design his, and then you want to use some classes each of which has a wacky metaclass. Can you? You need to know details about them, so the implementation can't just blithely assume that you can 20:00:43 splittist, that helps. also http://www.lisp.org/mop/dictionary.html Ctr+f "validate-superclass" => This generic function can be be called by the implementation or user code. It is called during class metaobject initialization and reinitialization, before the direct superclasses are stored. If this generic function returns false, the initialization or reinitialization will signal an error. 20:01:33 defining a method on validate-superclass is the way you can tell the implementation "yes, this is safe" 20:01:41 Krystof: that makes sense now. Thanks 20:02:31 entrix [~entrix@95-25-57-247.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:02:38 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 20:02:56 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@96.31.242.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:02:58 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:54 -!- vert2 [vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:33 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:34 what does elt stand for? 20:08:37 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:45 vert2 [vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:24 -!- vert2 [vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:10:25 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:31 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:38 and what does defun stand for? define function? 20:10:39 ELemenT? 20:10:59 hmmm, that makes sense... I think... 20:11:10 vert2 [vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:52 -!- Scriptor [~user@cpe-68-173-81-41.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:08 I'm learning LISP command line. It's a bit of a pain in the butt... but it is fast to write... 20:12:56 mapcar? 20:13:41 excelsior1979: what command line are you talking about? 20:14:38 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.102] has joined #lisp 20:16:11 -!- rmar|mtng is now known as rmarianski 20:16:51 dlowe1 [~dlowe@nat/google/x-wlhjijpxnkxdnrqf] has joined #lisp 20:17:54 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:201:4aff:fef3:f0d4] has joined #lisp 20:18:22 interpreter? 20:21:20 excelsior1979: check out Practical common lisp (http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/) and also the Hyperspec (http://clhs.lisp.se/Front/Contents.htm) 20:21:27 Was my word usage incorrect? 20:22:05 I'm using steel bank(?) 20:22:06 excelsior1979: i am learning myself and those two have been very resourceful 20:23:38 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0084.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:23:46 excelsior1979: We call that a "REPL", which stands for "read eval print loop". It's not an interpreter -- SBCL actually compiles everything to native code. 20:23:58 I had the Practical Lisp already bookmarked but thank you. I noted that http://www.sbcl.org/manual/index.html has some unique(?) approaches as well. 20:24:36 excelsior1979: and yes, using raw sbcl from the command line is bound to be immensely painful. I suggest getting an environment set up for yourself, or at the very least install a readline-ish tool. 20:24:52 sykopomp: with the asterisk prompt? 20:25:06 excelsior1979: that's a pretty terrible interface. SBCL isn't really meant to be used that way. 20:25:07 no, not using the $ command line 20:25:23 I use slime 20:25:39 Slime is good. PCL has some info on how to set it up. 20:25:46 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:26:17 -!- anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:26:25 So REPL isn't recommended to try out code? 20:26:39 and by try out, I mean just snippets 20:27:18 Are shebang scripts ok too? 20:27:38 sykopomp: i have not used quicklisp to do it but i think it can do the setup for slime 20:28:07 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755176.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:14 hrm no ligature support in zpb-ttf? 20:28:45 #!/usr/local/bin/sbcl --script 20:28:45 (write-line "Hello, World!") 20:29:23 excelsior1979: Lisp is generally developed a little different than how you might develop in languages like Python, Ruby, Perl, etc. Me, I write code into text files using emacs/slime, and I compile sections of code as I write them. slime also has an integrated REPL, and I use that to test code. 20:30:19 excelsior1979: This is all done in a single session, instead of writing into text files and repeatedly running a script from the command line. 20:30:43 i like to have an asd on hand to give some project structure and easy reloading 20:30:58 excelsior1979: PCL has a chapter dedicated to showing you how this approach works. Using shebang scripts might work, but I'm of the opinion that you'd be missing out on a lot of what CL has to offer. 20:33:43 ok, I'm looking more at PCL 20:33:47 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 20:36:47 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 20:38:33 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:38:54 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-236-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:41:05 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:41:54 ASau [~user@95-26-236-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:42:58 There's was an AI researcher in (I think it was) the early 80s who wrote a program to optimize a space warfare game or competition (which he incidentally won by outfitting a bunch of tiny ships with really big guns and no armor) can anyone remember this game? was it called Armada? 20:43:07 -!- dlowe1 [~dlowe@nat/google/x-wlhjijpxnkxdnrqf] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:43:11 dlowe2 [~dlowe@nat/google/x-hwbqjpskjuazqkam] has joined #lisp 20:43:41 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:43:44 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:02 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 20:44:41 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.15/2009101909]] 20:44:44 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:08 -!- stis_ [~stis@host-90-235-77-23.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:26 dlowe1 [~dlowe@nat/google/x-ljovrztyumeupydp] has joined #lisp 20:46:28 -!- dlowe2 [~dlowe@nat/google/x-hwbqjpskjuazqkam] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:47:29 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:48:10 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:50:13 excelsior1979: nobody ever saw that program or was able to reproduce the results 20:50:18 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@70-36-146-70.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:15 -!- ASau is now known as hackthemall 20:57:23 -!- hackthemall is now known as ASau 20:58:31 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:59:18 -!- dlowe1 [~dlowe@nat/google/x-ljovrztyumeupydp] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:59:23 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:201:4aff:fef3:f0d4] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 21:01:03 -!- nicdev_ [484a5525@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.74.85.37] has left #lisp 21:01:04 pkhuong: oh you know what I'm talking about? 21:01:15 tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.65.116] has joined #lisp 21:01:23 But he won that competition, though, didn't he? 21:01:42 KaZ- [~lulz@76.89.182.158] has joined #lisp 21:02:09 -!- KaZ- is now known as KaZ_ 21:02:11 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:02:11 what was the name of that competition? 21:03:37 pkhuong: if you recall 21:04:10 -!- KaZ_ is now known as KaZ- 21:04:23 -!- KaZ- is now known as KaZ_ 21:05:00 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:05:26 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:08 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@31.141.9.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:09:41 -!- KaZ_ is now known as KaZ- 21:10:51 excelsior1979: no. 21:15:46 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:15 -!- KaZ- [~lulz@76.89.182.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:18:12 KaZ- [~lulz@76.89.182.158] has joined #lisp 21:18:35 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 21:20:29 -!- KaZ- is now known as KaZ_ 21:29:21 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29:43 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:31:28 easyE: after an hour I finally submitted that bug report...I ran a lot more tests to makes sure I was not missing something stupid...although it will most likely be some thing stupid I did anyway...*sigh* 21:33:26 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:34:42 -!- KaZ_ [~lulz@76.89.182.158] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:37:56 -!- kruth [~chatzilla@kruth.org] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 21:39:24 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:06 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:07 How should documentation strings handled by the Lisp system when they are presented to the user? 21:40:19 s/handled/be handled 21:40:57 The doc strings will have newlines. Should the system reflow paragraphs? 21:42:43 The doc strings might have sequences of spaces at the beginning of a line that should be deleted ... for instance: 21:42:46 reb: I don't think that's specified anywhere 21:43:11 (slot-name ... :documentation "start of text here 21:43:18 rest of text here" 21:43:51 madnificent: Sure, it's not specified ... but I'm wondering what the best practice is. 21:44:20 The CL implementations should probably leave it as is. 21:44:26 Tools may do whatever they want. 21:44:28 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-90.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:44:32 Both on the part of the software writer and on the part of the system, which needs to display the documentation to the user. 21:44:54 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:45:01 For example, you may have too that expect the docstring be written in reStructured Text format, and that will process them accordingly. Or HTML, or Doxygen. 21:45:01 reb: I don't know what it is, but if it's on the displaying end, I don't think I'd it if it would reflow. 21:45:37 we should look at the documentation string as an org-mode document 21:45:38 s/too/ a tool / 21:45:39 *madnificent* ducks 21:46:22 reb: in any case, before you even consider those things, you have to solve the problem of libraries, each written with its own docstring style. 21:46:41 There are even some that don't do docstrings, considering the documentation should be written apart :-( 21:46:45 *pinterface* sometimes wishes for a triple-quoted string that automagically detects and removes a leading indent, though that doesn't help with the what-format-for-more-than-just-text question. 21:46:46 docstrings are a terrible idea 21:46:57 it's much better to have separate documentation 21:46:59 pjb: I don't have to solve that problem, I'll just live with whatever docs they happen to supply. 21:47:15 it's extremelly annoying to read code with page long docstrings in the middle 21:47:16 reb: then do what was expected: (princ docstring). 21:47:48 perahps the documentation string shouldn't have been a string, but a form with symbols and strings in it. 21:47:53 drdo: it's extremelly annoying to read documentation with page long code in the middle. 21:47:54 Sounds like I should be formatting my docstrings to look pretty. Sorry drdo. 21:48:09 drdo: Configure emacs (or whatever) to collapse the docstrings. :P 21:48:12 reb: you can just have a separate file with docstrings 21:48:17 and setf from there 21:48:28 And have fun maintaining both. 21:48:32 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@70-36-146-70.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:34 lol 21:48:38 pjb: and just have those 21:48:56 short docstrings to clarify what a slot is or something like that are fine 21:49:02 Remember to update the doc file when you rename a function! 21:49:04 drdo: I actually like terse doc strings directly in the code. Not a reference manual, just a quick description. 21:49:04 but page long docstrings for major functions 21:49:10 are a huge pain 21:49:33 drdo: you just need better tools: configure emacs to collapse long docstrings, etc. 21:49:45 reb: you should look at weitz's code, when i said page long docstrings in the middle of the code, i'm not exaggerating :P 21:49:51 *say 21:50:13 I agree that page long doc strings probably contain material more suitable for a separate reference manual. 21:50:22 well he generates pretty HTML documentation off that. 21:50:23 drdo: those page long docstrings of his has saved me hours ...! 21:50:32 felideon: indeed, and that's what i read 21:50:44 drdo: yeah, the separation of the parameters from the body can be irritated, but in practice his libraries are some of the most consistent with documentation and that's a huge value 21:50:48 when i'm reading code i don't want the huge docstrings, and when i'm reading docs i don't really care about the code 21:50:54 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:51:11 drdo: literate programming? 21:51:13 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:38 Vivitron: Yes, i'm not dissing him or anything, i use a lot of his libraries 21:51:47 at least, it could be molded into helping out with something like that. 21:52:12 drdo: I realize that, I mean to say that I think it's evidence that having the doc strings there helps keep them up to date 21:52:17 There are different kinds of documentation. Somewhere RMS has an essay about it ... which is why Emacs is documented with both doc strings and a reference manual. 21:52:40 In any case, back to my original question .... 21:52:41 I think comments to clarify obscure code are nice 21:52:50 If the manual was in the docstrings, I'd read it more often... 21:53:51 If we expect the system to present doc strings without reformatting, then we'll want to put newlines in the right spots and occasionally indent some text a bit. 21:54:27 ... it might be handy to terminate each line with ~@ 21:55:19 I wonder if anyone uses a macro to format doc strings so they can contain FORMAT directives .... 21:56:29 With what arguments? 21:56:53 reb: however, once upon a time, I wrote a documentation macro that did something like that. 21:57:00 I'm pretty sure I've seen #.(format nil "docstring") before. It's pretty ugly, though. 21:57:56 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:58:07 beach was presenting some ideas about docstrings but I think it might have been mainly about localization 22:00:39 -!- HG`` [~HG@p5DC05749.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:02:14 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.65.116] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:03:08 pjb: No arguments, just to use ~@ ... 22:04:21 I don't like the way comments look when the code is indented and the comments wrap around on multiple lines. 22:05:05 -!- excelsior1979 [~excelsior@cpe-68-175-63-138.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:06:22 chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:10:06 i am trying to do this: (labels ((a (lambda (x) (+ x x)))) (a 1)) 22:10:58 No lambda, and that could be an flet. 22:11:21 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441729.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:26 (flet ((a (x) (+ x x))) (a 1)) 22:13:18 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:13:28 -!- rme [rme@CBB6F09F.56BDEE2D.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 22:13:28 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.139.100] has quit [Quit: rme] 22:16:08 sorry for my misunderstanding, but would it be more correct to use labels ? 22:16:20 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:16:35 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:17:06 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440648.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:17:07 Correct how? 22:17:14 labels is for situations where you want the local function to recurse. 22:17:23 or local functions to call each other 22:18:07 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 22:18:25 i see 22:18:48 as long as you're not reusing symbols over and over, using labels by default shouldn't be a problem, just as some people always use let* instead of let 22:19:22 assuming you understand the underlying difference. 22:19:28 right 22:19:51 but in most cases, labels/let* is a generally useful model 22:20:02 where flet/let can be considered the special case 22:21:12 hehe, I would seem to take the opposite pov 22:21:21 I tend to use labels & let 22:21:36 I almost never use flet 22:21:40 mostly labels 22:21:42 whenever I used flet to define more than 1 function in a block, I always ended up breaking out little local utility functions, hence needing labels anyway 22:21:59 I rarely use labels or flet either. 22:22:42 although if you use a lot of closures they're probably meat and potatoes fare. 22:22:45 labels is great for defining interactive closures, vs raw lambdas 22:22:50 Good morning everyone! 22:22:50 interacting 22:23:18 hi 22:23:53 when I hand-roll some tail-recursive code, I also tend to use it in a labels hidden inside a defun 22:24:00 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-227.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:00 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:24:11 instead of exposing the tail recursive form to the toplevel 22:24:25 Phoodus: I do that a lot 22:24:58 *nod* 22:25:08 Some things are just clearer when written with tail recursion instead of some loop 22:25:58 and depending on what calculations you want done when/where, you can optimize better via tail recursion 22:26:19 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 22:26:45 does clisp do tail calls? 22:27:10 There's only one way to find out Mark! 22:27:35 a simple disassembly looks like it doesn't 22:28:12 hmm, but when recursing a function on itself, it does have a JMPTAIL 22:28:17 so in some cases it does 22:29:02 It definetly does 22:29:17 Or my (fact 1234567) 22:29:22 Would be exploding 22:30:06 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:30:22 disassembling (defun a (x y) (+ x y)) does not tail call to #'+ in my disassembly 22:30:23 carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.242] has joined #lisp 22:30:40 Phoodus: optimize 22:30:45 ah, duh 22:31:55 yep, it tailcalls then 22:33:03 (defun a (x y) (let ((q (+ x y))) (r q)) does not tail call 22:33:08 so I wouldn't quite trust it 22:33:11 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-227.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:33:16 that's even with speed 3, safety 0 22:33:45 I never use clisp anyway so i don't care 22:34:06 same here 22:34:18 But as far as i'm concerned, if an implementation doesn't do TCO, it's not worth using 22:34:23 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:34:48 jdz [~jdz@host85-111-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:36:10 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 22:36:54 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40:59 is not doing TCO really a crutch though? 22:41:18 since cl idiom is to use iterators rather than recursion 22:41:29 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:41:33 hyko- [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:06 chemuduguntar: Not doing TCO is just being unusable 22:42:38 What are iterators? 22:42:54 i don't the right word for it , but things like dolist 22:43:01 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:18 -!- LiamH1 [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:21 -!- hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:56 rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 22:44:17 chemuduguntar: I use all the iteration constructs, i just use whatever makes the code clearer, and sometimes tail calls are it 22:44:54 I tend to use tail recursion out of simplicity of remembering a bunch of semantic foo per iteration operator :-P 22:45:12 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-183.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:47:14 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-227.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:01 tcr1 [~tcr@89.108.255.45] has joined #lisp 22:53:08 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:13 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:55:50 jikanter [~Adium@adsl-99-136-194-188.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:22 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:57:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:02:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:01 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@89.108.255.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:07:58 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:07:59 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:30 lanthan [~ze@p54B7DDEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:28 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7DDEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:11:26 lanthan [~ze@p54B7DDEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:44 are symbol proplists used much anymore? 23:12:21 I think people are more wary of global resources nowadays 23:12:26 iwillig [~iwillig@ool-18b945c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:48 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@70-36-146-70.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:56 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 23:15:54 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:17:45 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:21:45 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-227.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:21:54 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:22:06 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:23:21 Hmm, the Common Lisp HyperSpec says for MERGE: if two or more elements are considered equal by the predicate, then the elements from sequence-1 will precede those from sequence-2 in the result. 23:23:30 I don't think they meant to say that. 23:26:26 fmeyer [~fmeyer@50-56-113-212.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 23:26:28 -!- davazp [~user@252.Red-83-43-235.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:26:38 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@50-56-113-212.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:27:33 Yes, they meant the element of from sequence-1 will precede the element from sequence-2. 23:28:30 Well, you could have: (1 1 1.0 1) and (1.0d0 1.0 1.0d0) and #'= then the result would have to be (1 1 1.0 1 1.0d0 1.0 1.0d0) 23:28:47 beach: perhaps sicp should provide a formal definition along? :-) 23:29:17 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:30:04 s/#'=/#' (defun bla (x y) (and (oddp x) (evenp y))) (merge 'vector #(2 1) #(3) #'bla) => #(3 2 1) 23:30:51 pjb: I think they meant this to be true only of the two sequences are already considered sorted according to the predicate. 23:31:00 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h235n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:31:02 beach: it seems to be the "predicate" should be an order function. 23:31:26 " Predicate should return true if and only if its first argument is strictly less than the second (in some appropriate sense)." 23:31:36 pjb: That's not enough. The two sequences must be sorted as well. 23:31:41 See my example above. 23:32:53 There's a paragraph that says they don't need to be sorted. I guess in that case, you have to find ranges of equal elements (ie. where predicate and (complement predicate) are true). 23:33:17 Oops not (complement predicate), but (lambda (x y) (funcall predicate y x)). 23:33:29 and both must be false. 23:33:37 It's late... 23:34:43 y3llow_ [~y3llow@111-240-169-200.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:43 So yes. Range of equal elements behave like a single one, and those from sequence-1 come before those from sequence-2 when both ranges are compared. 23:36:05 And if a sequence is not sorted, then some equal ranges may not be compared ever. 23:36:43 pok [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 23:36:52 Finally, this specification gives some strict constraints on the implementation of MERGE... 23:37:03 Xantoz_ [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:37:54 itegebo_ [~quassel@76.102.2.0] has joined #lisp 23:39:01 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:36 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.26] has joined #lisp 23:40:12 lonstein_ [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:52 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 23:42:36 fihi09`` [~user@pool-96-224-39-171.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:25 nullman` [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:57 euphidime_ [u178@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-slafsoqmlxzzkloo] has joined #lisp 23:44:40 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B814.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:09 pjb: In that example, An odd integer is strictly less than an even integer, but the first sequence is not sorted, so 3 (from the second sequence) precedes 1 (from the first) even though they are equal. 23:46:23 afa_ [u476@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lhzklqxncwcdzlkl] has joined #lisp 23:49:06 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:49:39 beach: yes, that's because 1 is in another unsorted range after the range of 2. 3 is less than 2, so it goes first. 23:51:49 rabite_ [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 23:53:21 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-219.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:53:37 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@ool-18b945c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:53:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:53:37 -!- hugod 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