00:00:04 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 00:05:30 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-5.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:55 pnq [~nick@AC812443.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:37 v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has joined #lisp 00:11:51 tirinim. 00:12:47 urandom__ [~user@p548A6954.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:16 Hey v0|d. 00:14:51 hey beach! 00:18:29 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:52 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:23:59 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.171.67] has joined #lisp 00:25:04 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-204-74.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:29:29 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.171.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:30:47 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:24 gonzojive [~red@101.109.75.173] has joined #lisp 00:33:21 -!- wgl [~wgl@209.242.26.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 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[Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:42:17 -!- EricAhn_ [~EricAhn@121.138.70.61] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:44:29 gonzojive_ [~red@101.109.88.192] has joined #lisp 00:46:33 -!- pnq [~nick@AC812443.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:47:45 -!- gonzojive [~red@101.109.75.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:48:26 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:48:52 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.171.67] has joined #lisp 00:51:48 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:52:43 pnq [~nick@AC810CBD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:45 is there a string-starts-with function in standard library? 00:53:42 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:54:03 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-180-185.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:33 <|3b|> alexandria:starts-with-subseq ? 00:54:52 *|3b|* counts alexandria as a 'standard library' even if it isn't in the ansi standard :) 00:55:07 Or you can use MISMATCH. 00:55:24 <|3b|> yeah, that was my next suggestion 00:56:27 thanks, downloading alexandria 00:56:44 kennyd: Something like (not (mismatch prefix string :end2 (length prefix))) 00:56:46 we've upgraded darcs repos and i cannot push patches now. 00:56:48 wonderful. 00:57:39 kennyd: Are you using quicklisp? 00:58:14 <|3b|> beach: except when STRING is shorter than PREFIX 00:58:44 |3b|: Yeah, OK, but then it's not really a prefix is it? :) 00:58:59 I was doing it with equal and subseq. and yes I'm using quicklisp 00:58:59 <|3b|> right, but in that case it should return NIL not error 00:59:12 True. 01:05:02 loke [~elias@bb119-74-212-229.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 01:05:59 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-204-74.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:51 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 01:15:47 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.42] has joined #lisp 01:20:12 Phillip 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Vowyer [~sbenitezb@71-208-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 02:46:58 -!- Vowyer [~sbenitezb@71-208-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has left #lisp 02:47:11 -!- pyrony [~epic@108.122.76.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:49:15 -!- Phillip [~Phillip@c-174-53-229-4.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:49:41 leyyer_su [~user@222.211.222.27] has joined #lisp 02:55:33 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-180-185.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:59:41 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810CBD.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:01:58 -!- jabujabu [~user@175.124.94.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:35 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.39.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:36 jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.39.47] has joined #lisp 03:04:00 -!- PuffTheMagic is now known as DontBlamePTM 03:04:02 -!- katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:04:43 -!- DontBlamePTM [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Quit: Computer went to sleep] 03:05:35 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:48 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-149-246.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:47 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.123] has joined #lisp 03:13:29 vi [~vi@72-173-220-32.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:46 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 03:14:25 I am trying to get elephant installed on sbcl 1.0.49 and I get this error The function (COMMON-LISP:SETF ELEPHANT::SLOT-DEFINITION-READER-FUNCTION) is undefined. 03:14:36 what's the meaning fo the f in setf, incf, decf? 03:15:42 vi: old elephant/new sbcl (using internal packages isn't supported). It might be fixed in a fresher version of elephant. 03:17:58 I tried to install elephant using quicklisp, it didnt work 03:18:28 where do I get the fresh copy of elephant 03:19:03 Am I supposed to fetch it through darcs or some other thing? 03:19:38 I think I had it working on CCL though 03:19:57 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.123] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:20:56 -!- itegebo [~quassel@c-76-102-2-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:21:16 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.205] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:21:48 vi: maybe. Probably. It's an issue with elephant using SBCL internals that don't exist anymore. 03:23:31 so where do I find elephant latest source? Is it through darcs? 03:24:48 seems so 03:26:35 one more question, On which scenario does the following error occur "There is no package named "NIL" ." 03:27:15 exumirabilis [~u@dslb-188-105-136-089.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:22 is it because a lib is not properly installed or is it becuase of some binary which could be relating to the lisp lib which needs to be installed or some other reason? 03:27:33 I haven't read anything elephant-related in a couple years, but it could happen when FIND-PACKAGE fails to find a package. 03:27:42 mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:28:51 lester- [~xenon@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 03:28:54 hello 03:29:04 Hello lester- 03:29:38 lester-: I don't recognize your nick. Are you new here? 03:30:15 yes, I've been here a once or twice maybe 03:30:35 I need some help 03:30:59 -!- exu0 [~u@dslb-188-105-051-146.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:31:06 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:31:33 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:31:57 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 03:31:58 I'm trying to use cl-irc library. the example on official page says to call (read-message-loop connection), and then "Interrupt the read-message-loop and do:" (join connection "#lisp") 03:32:24 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 03:32:25 how am I suppose to interrupt the read-message-loop? it's a blocking function 03:32:38 Usually ctrl c. 03:32:54 -!- Krystof [~csr21@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:33:02 oh, hmm 03:33:07 You could also hook it on the welcome message. 03:33:16 armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has joined #lisp 03:33:25 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 03:33:57 so say I wanted to write a client instead of a bot, where user could enter commands, how would I do that? 03:34:12 read from standard input in a separate thread or? 03:34:38 lester-: You can check out what Beirc does. 03:35:55 -!- no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:36:55 Balooga [~balooga@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:24 just checked Beirc, it's a full-blown GUI irc client. not sure if I'll be able to follow the code but I'll try 03:39:05 -!- Balooga [~balooga@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:40:04 Balooga [~Balooga@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:25 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-158-107.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 03:41:55 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.201.176] has joined #lisp 03:42:06 hi !!! 03:42:12 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.250.119] has joined #lisp 03:42:13 Hello morphism 03:42:18 can anyone tell me more about weblocks ? 03:42:44 can a free host server which only support html, php run it ? 03:44:37 -!- Balooga [~Balooga@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:45:02 ???? 03:45:22 Balooga [~balooga@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:35 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: :O] 03:46:02 I did run it on my laptop, so weblock play the role like tomcat but with CL src code ? 03:46:34 -!- Balooga [~balooga@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 03:54:52 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 04:00:08 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-199-173.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:00:53 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-199-173.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:15 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:05:27 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-170-17-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:05:27 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:05:35 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:48 ltriant [~ltriant@124-170-17-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:05:56 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 04:07:06 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:07:06 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:07:27 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:30 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 04:08:21 doc-bot:? 04:13:24 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-149-246.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:14:01 Hey guys, is it common to use format messages in your code that can be viewed in *inferior-lisp* buffer to track what code is being run? 04:16:27 the easiest way to get "what code is being run" is TRACE. 04:16:49 also, there's a way to get regular input and output sent to the slime-repl buffer, if you prefer that. 04:17:11 (by default, it's only rebound in a slime eval) 04:20:07 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:20:13 ahh ok.. where would i find TRACE? 04:20:31 it is a standard macro. 04:20:37 clhs trace 04:20:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_tracec.htm 04:21:26 is that the best way to debug your code as far as finding problems? 04:21:27 heck, anyone saw my question about weblocks ? 04:21:46 kpreid: thanks btw 04:22:43 the goodness of trace for observation and debugging depends entirely on whether your program 04:23:01 whether your program's division into functions is relevant to what you want to observe 04:23:33 for example, if what is interesting is the values of a local variable, trace won't help you at all; if the variable is instead a function parameter, it might be quite good. 04:23:52 is there a list somewhere of all the special operators? 04:24:10 they seem to be kind of spread out through the hyperspec 04:24:20 kpreid: ok i guess i want to know how far through the code the program got before it got stuck.. to determine the sticking point, or problem area 04:24:42 catphive: 3.1.2.1.2.1 04:25:03 catphive: The way to find out things like that is to go to the glossary and then to follow the reference there. 04:25:13 kpreid: so usually the point where there is a syntax error in the code or i'm passing the wrong information to a function 04:25:58 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-177-174.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:53 no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:11 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:30:08 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 04:32:46 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-39-5-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:36 catphive: Did you faint? 04:36:18 maybe catphive is following all the references? 04:37:50 Wow! Yeah, that will take some time. 04:37:52 stassats: I seem to be on a roll. I'm hoping to commit the float reader stuff soon. 04:38:05 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:39:30 i can commit it myself, although i need to make sure first that it doesn't miss any corner cases 04:39:49 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:40:08 but, i wasn't planning on doing it in the near future, so you can go ahead 04:47:25 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.201.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:50:53 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-39-5-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:51:29 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:51:52 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:52:00 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 04:52:22 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.67.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:54:01 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 04:55:11 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:57:52 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 05:07:40 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:08:10 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:09 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-177-174.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:16:11 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:24:08 -!- no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:25:01 -!- vi [~vi@72-173-220-32.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:27:35 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:28:14 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-169-170.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:29:10 no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:39 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.201.176] has joined #lisp 05:38:13 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:53 beach: thanks 05:41:21 -!- a5h15h [~a5h15h@unaffiliated/a5h15h] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:46:29 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 05:48:51 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Client Quit] 05:50:18 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-154-22.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:40 beach` [~user@116.118.8.204] has joined #lisp 05:54:21 -!- beach [~user@116.118.8.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:56:49 how do I host a weblocks site ? 05:58:41 -!- joshee [~joshe@c-67-169-219-91.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:59:27 chu_ [~chu@CPE-121-223-197-187.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:01:33 how come (source msg) works, but (apply #'source msg) doesn't?. source is a generic function 06:02:03 What error do you get? And that's irc:source, yes? 06:02:50 <_3b> presumably because msg isn't a list containing valid arguments to SOURCE, maybe you wanted FUNCALL? 06:02:52 ** - APPLY: dotted argument list given to # : # 06:03:03 tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 06:03:32 So msg -> #? Yeah, what _3b said 06:03:35 oh right, msg is not a source 06:03:40 msg is not a list rather 06:07:39 jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:09:09 evildaemon [~anon@50-35-176-190.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:29 -!- no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:09:42 What would be the reccomended method for a clean GUI for Lisp programs? 06:09:51 (If any method exists.) 06:10:00 HG` [~HG@p579F7069.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:40 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:11:13 morphism1 [~Nevermind@113.190.183.49] has joined #lisp 06:11:24 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.201.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:15:19 i would use commonqt 06:17:32 -!- beach` is now known as beach 06:17:35 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 06:17:45 Okay, noted, anything that supports GTK 3? (I could only find stuff for QT and GTK2) 06:18:32 I was also thinking I could use imported C for the libraries? 06:20:53 you could, but you wouldn't want to 06:24:26 -!- symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:24:42 just curious (not that it matters), is (funcall symbol argument) just as efficient as calling the function directly? since i have a symbol there shouldn't be any eval-magic going on? 06:27:03 <_3b> there are a few cases where an implementation might be allowed to optimize a direct call more, not sure if those apply to funcall as well or not 06:27:30 <_3b> (and obviusly, the cases where they call different functions would tend to have different performance) 06:28:47 *_3b* would expect funcalling a constant symbol to be comparable to a direct call in general though 06:29:23 <_3b> and the cases where it matters you would probably be better off trying to avoid calling something at all 06:29:38 yes I should have said I meant a constant symbol 06:31:06 _3b: it does apply. 06:31:33 -!- chu_ [~chu@CPE-121-223-197-187.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:31:36 is there a way to get a list of generic functions supported by a CLOS object? 06:32:21 kennyd: that question doesn't make sense. 06:32:43 <_3b> kennyd: generic functions specialize on classes, not the other way around 06:32:44 kennyd: What is your definition of "an object that supports a generic function"? 06:33:10 <_3b> and i'm guessing you wouldn't want all the generic functions that have a method that accept T, so you need to be more specific 06:33:20 object that can be passed to a generic function 06:34:13 _3b why not? I thought I wanted just that 06:34:30 <_3b> ah, maybe you do, dunno :) 06:34:44 <_3b> seems likely to be a long list 06:35:07 swank-backend:who-specializes 06:35:08 say I'm using a library that isn't documented well, and I have object I want in repl. any way to find out what I can do with it 06:35:13 kennyd: You would get every generic function in the system for every object. 06:35:15 evildaemon: gtk 3 is really new I think 06:35:33 catphive, yup, it is. 06:35:46 I'm not sure anyone is using it yet, aside from gnome guys 06:36:26 although it's for direct specializations, there's sb-introspect:who-specializes-generally 06:37:15 <_3b> kennyd: probably better to just grep for defgeneric in the source :p (and if that fails, defmethod) 06:37:35 stassats, it's not that I don't believe you, but why exactly would importing C be a bad thing? (Unless your pointing out the seizures induced by prolonged exposure to C++) 06:37:48 evildaemon: it's not a bad thing 06:37:52 <_3b> or look at the list of exported symbols in the packages, and see which name functions of generic functions 06:38:11 evildaemon: it's just not an easy thing 06:38:26 Ah. That makes sense. 06:39:05 doesn't ECL make calling C code pretty easy? 06:39:13 you can have embedded C right? 06:39:22 that might be a good option 06:39:49 calling c code isn't a problem, the problem is that you want your code to look like lisp 06:40:24 At least to the extent that nobody screams WTF while reading it. 06:40:29 well, whenever you use a C library you have to have some wrapper code 06:40:32 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-199-173.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:40:54 and c apis of toolkits don't have generally look very lispy, so you'll just end up making a lisp library 06:40:57 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 06:41:22 just like cl-gtk2, or commonqt 06:42:20 is either of the two usable cross-platform (linux, os x, windows)? 06:43:10 commonqt at least is intended to be cross-platform 06:43:40 now that i have access to windows, i can try commonqt on it 06:45:03 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7069.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:48:15 -!- jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:49:40 jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:50:39 -!- catphive [~brenmill@c-76-104-152-119.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:50:53 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 06:50:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 06:50:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:55:35 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.171.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:22 vozhyk_ [~vozhyk@ip135-13.17.dialup.minsktelecom.by] has joined #lisp 07:09:12 (defparameter *config (make-instance 'config)) => "The variable *CONFIG* is unbound". I want to define new var 07:09:29 Why does it give this error? 07:09:41 Do you have a class called config? 07:09:51 yes 07:09:54 Did you do *config* instead of *config ? 07:10:11 *config* 07:10:21 Because your code there says *config. 07:10:52 (defparameter *config* (make-instance 'config)) 07:11:06 I wanted to say that ^^ 07:11:21 And still it gives this error 07:12:17 Did you put that, exactly, in your REPL? 07:12:23 Is *config bound? 07:12:35 *config* is unbound 07:12:43 No, *config. 07:12:54 I didn't use it 07:12:58 is your defparameter cl:defparameter? 07:13:16 do you define your package without specifying (:use :cl)? 07:13:43 (macroexpand-1 '(defparameter *config* (make-instance 'config))) 07:13:52 (PROGN 07:14:01 (EVAL-WHEN (:COMPILE-TOPLEVEL) (SB-IMPL::%COMPILER-DEFVAR '*CONFIG*)) 07:14:08 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:14:27 (EVAL-WHEN (:LOAD-TOPLEVEL :EXECUTE) 07:14:40 (SB-IMPL::%DEFPARAMETER '*CONFIG* (MAKE-INSTANCE 'CONFIG) NIL 'NIL 07:14:50 (SB-C:SOURCE-LOCATION)))) 07:14:59 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 07:15:22 I think it's not cl:defparameter 07:15:32 Looks like cl:defparameter to me. 07:15:46 vozhyk_: can you tell exactly what are you doing? 07:15:46 bsod1 [~sinan@88.240.133.40] has joined #lisp 07:15:47 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-158-107.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:16:04 Bike: yes, sorry, it's cl 07:16:19 c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CE593.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:29 stassats`: y 07:16:33 -!- lester- [~xenon@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 07:16:36 So, is *config bound or not? A typo seems like the most likely explanation. 07:17:10 Bike: the typo was made when I typed it into chat 07:17:16 not in the repl 07:19:07 http://dpaste.com/553021/ 07:19:18 This is the full src. 07:19:41 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-116-163.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:20:06 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-180-165.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:20:10 I compile it and then run (cli) and it says that *config* is unbound. 07:20:42 because it's commented out? 07:20:48 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:20:54 Well, you commented out the defparameter line, but several later functions use *config*. 07:21:11 It mustn't be bound I think because I bind it in (cli) 07:21:31 And all functions are called after it 07:21:56 can you paste a backtrace? 07:21:58 and the error 07:22:09 ok 07:22:11 Wait, you have defparameter in a defun. 07:22:20 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-86-79.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:22:51 yes 07:23:12 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Quit: npoektop] 07:24:09 why do you use generic-functions for all your functions? 07:24:38 they all just have &optional parameters, there's no sense in using generic-functions in this case 07:24:45 yes 07:24:49 no sense 07:24:58 and why read-line-or-default is a macro? 07:25:43 http://dpaste.com/553022/ This is the compile 07:25:50 output 07:26:39 http://dpaste.com/553023/ error and backtrace 07:26:58 have you read them? 07:27:13 n 07:27:34 you can use full words here, we're not trying to save bandwidth 07:28:53 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.240.133.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:07 *config* is referenced by make-instance (through initialize-instance) 07:29:20 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.206] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:30:28 kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:23 yes. 07:36:19 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-112-206.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:37:50 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-5.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:39:42 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-38-215.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:39:43 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:41:53 francogrex [~user@109.130.92.43] has joined #lisp 07:42:25 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 07:42:31 -!- morphism1 [~Nevermind@113.190.183.49] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:43:28 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.183.49] has joined #lisp 07:43:54 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.183.49] has quit [Client Quit] 07:48:42 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:48:57 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.92.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53:24 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.132] has joined #lisp 07:54:34 Thank you, stassats`. I cannot bind *config* in initialization(add-line) 07:54:55 because you don't define it special 07:55:00 yes. 07:55:18 Thanks. 07:57:23 -!- vozhyk_ [~vozhyk@ip135-13.17.dialup.minsktelecom.by] has quit [Quit: Exit.] 07:57:57 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:59:09 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 08:01:48 gko` [~gko@42-72-196-97.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:21 bsod1 [~sinan@88.240.133.40] has joined #lisp 08:04:35 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.240.133.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:37 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75574c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:15:47 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:21:11 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:30:36 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:37:30 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:51:47 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:55:19 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 08:59:02 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 09:03:31 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.183.49] has joined #lisp 09:09:22 pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:18 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 09:40:49 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:40:56 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0057.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 09:47:46 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:48:51 rainyrhy [~rainyrhy@bb220-255-83-118.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 09:49:56 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0057.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:50:09 -!- evildaemon [~anon@50-35-176-190.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:51:31 varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 09:55:21 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 10:03:52 DontBlamePTM [~PuffTheMa@cpe-76-180-187-187.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:04:29 -!- DontBlamePTM [~PuffTheMa@cpe-76-180-187-187.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:58 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:09:08 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:09:21 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-154-22.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:09:47 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 10:13:23 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.13] has joined #lisp 10:14:38 cafall [~user@kame.penryu.org] has joined #lisp 10:15:38 -!- cafall [~user@kame.penryu.org] has quit [Client Quit] 10:22:13 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-165-59.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:44 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:27:35 ebzzry_ [~ebzzry@180.192.232.84] has joined #lisp 10:33:06 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082BC2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:01 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326B36.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:39:38 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 10:43:13 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.183.49] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:49:23 HG` [~HG@p579F7069.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:27 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.250.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:52:40 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-41-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:36 -!- gko` [~gko@42-72-196-97.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.1] 10:55:47 -!- Landr [~user@213.119.15.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:37 leo2007 [~leo@th041141.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 10:58:41 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-180-165.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:02:22 chegibari [~chegibari@151.59.15.167] has joined #lisp 11:03:47 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-141-234.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:03:48 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-236-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:04:33 -!- chegibari [~chegibari@151.59.15.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:20 vervic [~vervic@091-141-007-206.dyn.orange.at] has joined #lisp 11:05:21 ASau [~user@95-26-236-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:08:05 Where does the current asdf store compiled fasl files? 11:09:06 ~/.cache/common-lisp/something 11:09:48 -!- rncarpio [rncarpio@ppp-69-238-169-54.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [] 11:10:16 bsod1 [~sinan@88.240.133.40] has joined #lisp 11:14:25 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:21:48 chegibari [~chegibari@151.59.15.167] has joined #lisp 11:23:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:23:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:23:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:29:48 -!- tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:36:26 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.240.133.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:42:57 bsod1 [~sinan@88.240.128.146] has joined #lisp 11:43:43 francogrex [~user@109.130.92.43] has joined #lisp 11:45:14 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-183.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 11:46:12 pnq [~nick@ACA290E8.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:58:18 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-183.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:03:42 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:41 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:08:27 Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:10:02 frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:38 ... I never expcted it, but after my recent experiences, I have to say Common Lisp can be easier to deploy than .NT 12:11:42 *.NET 12:14:26 -!- ebzzry_ [~ebzzry@180.192.232.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:26 loke_ [~elias@bb116-15-153-239.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:15:26 -!- loke [~elias@bb119-74-212-229.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:16 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.92.43] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:20:48 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-14-239.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:22:08 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 12:24:19 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:48 -!- anderson [~user@c-76-18-219-103.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:24:56 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:25:44 btw, my startup's blog is live, and soon we should have private beta. We didn't get the funding, though :/ 12:26:56 now if only some parts were working enough to start private beta *now* 12:27:17 -!- jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:37 Is it for anything interesting? 12:31:56 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-14-239.monradsl.monornet.hu] has left #lisp 12:32:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:33:06 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:49 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:36:52 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:37:42 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 12:37:52 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-211-17.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:38:21 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7069.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:38:28 Zhivago: private file-sharing, mainly for mobile devices (multiplatform). Targeting "normal users", not profssionals/geeks 12:39:14 Ah. I can see why you might not have gotten funded for that. 12:39:48 So many big boys lined up to stomp on that piece of turf. 12:39:48 Zhivago: actually, we had an offr, but we couldn't get around a rquirement that would force us to take a year off from studies 12:40:33 -!- frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:41:00 and funnily enough, we couldn't find competition that would target the same segment us we do (we were quite grilled at the OpenCoffee meeting where we caught the eye of HackFwd) 12:41:16 Yuzuchan_ [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:41:20 Not even apple? 12:41:57 Zhivago: they have something in iOS 5, but it only targets their own devices and in short distance 12:42:08 -!- Yuzuchan_ [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 12:42:10 Not even iCloud? 12:42:32 Yuzuchan_ [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:42:32 As far as I can make out, everyone and their dog is trying to set up cloud services to solve that problem. 12:42:39 Zhivago: afaik it's synchronization btween your own devices, kinda like dropbox on steroids 12:43:21 -!- Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:43:28 -!- Yuzuchan_ is now known as Yuzu- 12:43:50 Store + sync. 12:43:51 the thing is, iCloud, Dropbox, etc. are all "heavyweight" solutions that target much wider, complex goal. We just provide a way to send files no matter what platform, in a quick way. No settings, folder management, etc. 12:43:59 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:44:01 But Store + Sync is Share. 12:44:31 It just needs to support syncing between users. 12:45:11 Well, good luck with it. :) 12:45:23 Zhivago: well, we will see how it will work in practice. Fortunately we managed to lower financial risks to ourselves. 12:46:09 (as for being on-topic - I have a strange feeling I'm going to rewrite the linux client from Mono to ECL+Qt, bcause it will b eeasier to deploy...) 12:46:35 Hurrah for compiling to C ... 12:47:20 Zhivago: in this case it's more about "I get a small binary" :> 12:47:29 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:47:57 SBCL would be similar choice though h it would be *much* heavier 12:48:32 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:48:59 (SBCL image >20MB, + Qt + libsmoke etc.) 12:49:50 20MB? What's that? 12:50:02 I don't even take my hat off for 200MB these days. 12:50:10 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-84-44-155-189.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:51:15 Zhivago: you probably live in areas with very good internet coverage... I quite recently went for a dinner outside instead of waiting for 40MB download 12:52:29 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CE593.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:55:32 sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:12 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:53 -!- vervic [~vervic@091-141-007-206.dyn.orange.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:11:06 Well, if your target it places with shitty networking ... 13:11:20 It doesn't sound like a long term strategy. 13:14:24 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:32 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:14:32 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 13:14:50 Zhivago: more like making sure that downloading/installing takes as little time as possible, no matter the network 13:20:41 -!- varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:23:19 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:24:07 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.206] has joined #lisp 13:25:26 varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:27:52 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.27.21] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 13:31:28 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-61-185.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 13:32:21 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:32:35 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:39:04 no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:44 Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 13:40:14 damn, GSD fails to load: Bound is not *, a SINGLE-FLOAT or a list of a SINGLE-FLOAT: GRID::VALUE 13:40:39 sacho [~sacho@90.154.206.145] has joined #lisp 13:40:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-8-211.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 13:43:33 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:45:55 -!- varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:47:00 varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:48:58 why this function goes into infinite loop? (defun test (list) (loop until (null list) do (setf list (remove (car list) list :test #'equal)))) 13:49:51 bsod1: it's testing still with old had of the list. CL:REMOVE afaik returns a new list 13:50:11 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.112.210] has joined #lisp 13:50:12 p_l|backup: yes and I setfing the variable 13:51:00 -!- Guthur [c0c1748f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.116.143] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:51:16 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-138-192-24.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:51:23 ... hmmm 13:52:24 ryepup [~user@216.155.105.115] has joined #lisp 13:52:57 anyway, afk - time to go home 13:54:51 I'm having a problem starting slime; getting the same error as this old post: http://paste.lisp.org/display/73410, "Error in timer" during slime-attempt-connection 13:55:06 cl:remove doesn't return a new list 13:55:19 I'm running sbcl 1.0.49 on ubuntu, emacs 23, and slime20110522 from quicklisp 13:55:55 bsod1: what makes you think that it goes into an infinite loop? 13:56:35 2008--02-23? are you serious about 20110522? 13:56:41 -!- varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:56:51 stassats`: yeah, I just started this morning for me 13:56:55 varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:56:59 it* 13:57:27 stassats`: I'm trying to debug this code, it goes into infinite loop(and I'm wrong about my first code, it's not going into infinite loop, sorry) http://paste.pocoo.org/show/404511/ 13:58:22 macrocat [~marmalade@99.192.107.114] has joined #lisp 13:58:49 have you considered using SORT? 13:59:15 ryepup pasted "*inferior lisp* bugger" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122565 13:59:37 because your sort algorithm is very naive 13:59:44 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:00:34 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:00:35 ryepup: i don't see any problem in your paste 14:00:52 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-199-173.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:09 me neither, but I get an elisp *backtrace* buffer matching the one I linked from 2008 14:01:50 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.206] has joined #lisp 14:01:58 ryepup: you almost certainly have an older slime from your distro messing things up 14:02:04 ryepup annotated #122565 "*Backtrace* buffer from elisp" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122565#1 14:02:37 ryepup: can you see it in netstat? 14:02:50 netstat -nlp | grep sbcl 14:02:52 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.206] has quit [Client Quit] 14:03:47 oh, i see. that wasn't your slime date, sorry 14:04:01 nikodemus: yeah, that was confusing 14:04:24 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-5-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:25 stassats`: no, I don't see it in netstat, grepping for sbcl OR the port number it says swank has 14:04:36 *rtoym* tries out the latest slime... 14:04:51 I saw some clojure people saying this was an ipv4 vs ipv6 problem, but I'm not sure how to validate that 14:05:08 rtoym: remember to add slime-indentation to your slime-setup! :) 14:05:23 *rtoym* forgets how to get the new fancy slime indentation. 14:05:27 Ah, thanks! 14:05:40 (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-indentation)) 14:06:13 you might also want to make sure you're not loading any old cl-indent-patches.el or similar 14:06:24 carlocci [~nes@93.37.192.171] has joined #lisp 14:06:54 ryepup: a better way to test it would be to start swank manually, just do sbcl --load start-swank.lisp, and check netstat 14:07:16 nikodemus: Ok, slime-setup updated and emacs restarted. How can I tell that the new slime indentation is working? 14:07:49 stassats`: will do, thanks for the help. I confirmed that I'm only loading slime-20110522 from my various .emacs config 14:08:10 don't thank me until it's not sorted out! 14:08:47 rtoym: eg. M-x common-lisp-set-style modern 14:09:03 Well, that doesn't work. Function definition is void: looking-back 14:09:10 oh bugger 14:09:16 xemacs strikes back! 14:09:17 xemacs? 14:09:27 Oh, not the common-lisp-set-style. 14:10:40 -!- chegibari [~chegibari@151.59.15.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:48 rtoym: just a sec 14:11:10 M-x common-lisp-set-style doesn't work either. (And yes, I am using xemacs.) 14:12:22 -!- Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 14:12:22 nikodemus: by the way, it would be a good idea to use limit argument for looking-back, otherwise it might be quite slow on large buffers 14:12:34 nikodemus pasted "if you evaluate this in emacs, do things work then?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122567 14:12:36 -!- rainyrhy [~rainyrhy@bb220-255-83-118.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:51 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-211-17.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:13:51 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.112] has joined #lisp 14:13:51 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.112] has quit [Changing host] 14:13:51 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:14:06 stassats`: huh, i see. 14:14:10 nikodemus: Yes. At least there are no warnings now. 14:14:39 now try to re-indent a function with a complex lambda-list: optionals, keywords, etc, split over multiple lines 14:15:08 nikodemus: Do I need to run common-lisp-set-style? It doesn't work. Looks like completing-read doesn't like the hash table. 14:15:16 arg 14:15:20 no, you don't 14:15:47 you can just have (setq common-lisp-style-default ...), or not use the styles at all 14:16:24 Re-indenting appears to be working. I just need to find (or create) a complex lambda-list for testing.... 14:16:59 i'll get rid of the looking-back and use a list for completing-read 14:17:11 let me know if there are any other xemacs issues 14:17:41 nikodemus: Many thanks! 14:19:00 starting swank from sbcl --load /does/ show up on netstat, so I guess the issue is with running sbcl from within emacs... or something 14:19:16 ryepup: can you connect to it? 14:19:26 does xemacs have char-before? 14:19:34 M-x slime-connect RET 127.0.0.1 RET 4005 14:19:40 stassats`: I get "calculate-lisp-indent: Symbol's function definition is void: cl-indent:function 14:20:22 nikodemus: Yes, it has char-before. 14:20:24 ryepup: thats from either cl-indent-patches.el, or from an obsolete version of slime-indentation 14:20:30 so I probably have something screwy that's conflicting with the new slime-indentation stuff 14:20:45 ...or your .emacs :) 14:21:46 ryepup: do you set common-lisp-indent-function to something funny? 14:22:05 err, that's not a variable 14:22:10 what was it 14:22:16 lisp-indent-function 14:23:00 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:23:01 -!- no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:24:20 stassats`: yeah, that's the one, I am setting that to something else. What should lisp-indent-function be set to? 14:24:32 no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:51 'common-lisp-indent-function 14:25:27 ryepup: so, can you connect to swank? 14:26:31 -!- leyyer_su [~user@222.211.222.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:24 stassats`: yes (although I think my slime-net-coding-system is mismatched, but that's easy enough to fix 14:27:52 yes, start-swank.lisp is intended to be edited 14:28:16 but anyway, that leaves why it doesn't work from emacs 14:28:18 Ideally I'm starting lisp inside emacs using M-x slime 14:28:21 -!- varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:29:24 at any rate I can at least work now, thanks much for the help 14:29:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-100-112.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 14:29:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-100-112.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 14:29:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:30:56 -!- ryepup [~user@216.155.105.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:04 but that's no fun! oh well 14:31:19 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0103de.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:30 ryepup [~user@216.155.105.115] has joined #lisp 14:32:43 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:33:03 bizarre. Restarted emacs and now it's fine. That was my first debugging step. 14:33:44 I don't really expect changing lisp-indent-function was actually the solution, but I'll take it 14:33:48 well, i wanted to suggest you to try it again after setting lisp-indent-function 14:34:06 can anyone recommend a starting point to learn mop? Once uppon a time there was an article describing the implementation of persistence using MOP with emphasis on being a MOP tutorial. I somehow can't find it. 14:34:20 stassats`: thanks for all the help 14:34:21 -!- naiv [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-14-227.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:58 i started learning mop by reading rucksack code and implementing my own persistence layer 14:35:25 and then there's http://alu.org/mop/contents.html 14:35:33 rtoym: CVS HEAd should now work on XEmacs too 14:35:37 of course, reading the whole AMOP would be better 14:36:07 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:36:24 prxq: it's easier to talk about learning a specific thing about mop, than the whole 14:36:55 *rtoym* cvs updates slime 14:37:11 nikodemus: hm, ok. 14:37:18 for example, custom slot accessors -- lots of examples exit on how to use slot-value-using-class 14:37:25 exists, even 14:38:05 What I want to do is to store additional information about slots 14:38:12 but the /whole/ of mop is ... huge, and a bit nebulous around the edges 14:38:24 ok 14:38:29 that's what I heard :-) 14:39:04 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-5-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:39:30 I want to write a type of class whose slots are, essentially, subsections of an underlying vector. 14:39:46 nikodemus: Thanks. Slime works nicely now. And the indentation looks good. 14:40:21 -!- neaer [~adskjf@118.39.114.41] has quit [] 14:40:22 but they should have additional information, like the extent in the underlying vector, name information, and probably some more. 14:40:22 prxq: so, you don't really want to store more information about slots, but store slots in a different way? 14:40:28 excellent, thanks for poking at it :) 14:40:33 stassats`: both 14:41:06 prxq: the amop book has a couple of examples that come close, iirc, but they're not on the web 14:41:11 and normal slots should also be possible. 14:41:27 i.e. the thing has to read my mind :O) 14:41:34 ryepup annotated #122565 "got it working" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122565#2 14:41:36 the entry point for additional information, subclassing standard-effective-slot-definition 14:41:52 seriously though, half of that would be a great help 14:41:53 if you look at sbcl/tests/mop-1.impure-cload.lisp you'll see something similar 14:42:18 (i'm not saying it's the idea example, just the first one tha comes to my mind) 14:42:28 i'll look at it. 14:43:10 when you have some of it written -- even if it doesn't quite work :) -- i'll be happy to help 14:43:29 great - thanks! 14:47:17 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.66.48.162.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 14:47:27 although there doesn't seem to be a nice way to change how slots are stored, for example, you can store them in a vector in a single slot, and then redefine slot-value-using-class to use it 14:47:55 -!- twbd is now known as twbd|eweej 14:49:17 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.112.210] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:25 -!- Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: I Quit] 14:52:05 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-5-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:06 -!- pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:53:42 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.228.114] has joined #lisp 14:55:07 stassats`: xof's subclassable structure-classes could change that? 14:56:02 if it were standard, yes 14:56:22 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:46 standard! 15:00:48 bah 15:01:12 implementation-specific is good enough for acl users, so why not ours? 15:01:55 pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:01 i like implementation-specific things, but i also like non-implementation-specific equivalents 15:02:13 sure 15:02:14 HG` [~HG@p579F7069.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:34 mk2` [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:02:44 and in this case the "where is it actually stored" doesn't really matter except as an optimization? 15:02:48 but only if the implementation-specific thing provides some benefits 15:03:12 indeed, optimization is one of those benefits 15:04:01 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:04:26 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA290E8.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:05:02 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:13 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:12:08 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.183.49] has joined #lisp 15:12:58 -!- pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:13:27 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 15:16:31 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.183.49] has quit [Client Quit] 15:17:09 pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:12 ubii_mobile [~ubii@189.sub-174-253-146.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:12 -!- jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.39.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:02 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-211-17.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:22:39 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 15:25:11 -!- ubii_mobile [~ubii@189.sub-174-253-146.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:26:38 -!- leo2007 [~leo@th041141.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 15:28:57 me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-226-62.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:00 symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:32 krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-170-109-124.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:01 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-170-109-124.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:14 dlikhten [~Dmitriy_L@ool-18b89830.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:21 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.66.48.162.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:34:48 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-226-62.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:07 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:37:24 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:38:35 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:52 c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CF14C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:00 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 15:55:09 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-5.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:18 tmh [63972b39@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:57:23 Greetings lispers. 15:58:16 Greetings. 16:00:34 Does anyone have experience with MessagePack -> http://msgpack.org/ ? Is there a Common Lisp MessagePack library? If not, is there something about MessagePack that is unsuitable for Common Lisp? 16:01:03 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:04:32 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.228.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:04:52 -!- _pw_ [~user@125.34.46.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:04:59 tmh: I'm sure you could create a MessagePack library, but I haven't heard of one. 16:07:26 -!- dlikhten [~Dmitriy_L@ool-18b89830.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:35 symbole: Before I go down that road, I wanted to make sure that there was not some fundamental reason that someone had not already created one. 16:10:08 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.183.49] has joined #lisp 16:10:21 probably no one got around to it. 16:10:35 cl-json looks to have very similar facilities that you might need. 16:11:05 if you wanted something of reference to model an api on. 16:12:15 Balooga [~balooga@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:53 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:16:04 -!- mk2` [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:28 -!- Balooga [~balooga@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:19:59 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:20:51 Balooga [~rooms@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:57 My slime and swank version differ although I just downloaded the new slime version. I thought swank was part of the slime project.. Are there somebody else with this problem? 16:21:25 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.205] has joined #lisp 16:21:27 -!- Balooga [~rooms@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 16:21:37 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:21:43 This happened unexplainably before I upgraded slime, I thought upgrading slime would fix it, seems it didn't 16:22:50 I can't remember upgrading swank or slime recently... and the version diff was like 5 days! *sigh* 16:23:12 add^_: did you restart emacs? 16:23:15 or reload slime? 16:23:23 like 10 times by now 16:23:33 this usually happens if you're connecting to a newer swank with an older slime 16:23:40 try M-x locate-library RET slime RET 16:23:42 and compare paths 16:24:15 heh msgpack .. i love how everyone eventually gets around to reinventing past technologies 16:24:34 aha 16:25:02 apparently it's quicklisp that's handling my slime version 16:25:04 oGMo: Do tell. 16:25:05 but why? 16:25:34 I haven't set quicklisp to do anything with slime? I've done that manually before.. 16:25:56 add^_: odd - quicklisp has a quicklisp-slime-helper but doesn't install that unless you ask it to 16:26:07 (and I am not sure if it adds the path to .emacs) 16:27:00 oh 16:27:26 I had it activated in my .emacs file, weird, I must have removed the ;;'s 16:27:48 now it's correct 16:27:51 sweet (: 16:27:52 tmh: going from "we don't understand various RPC protocols, let's use http and plain text" to "look, a new RPC" 16:27:57 yay it works 16:28:02 antifuchs: thanks! 16:28:07 you're welcome (: 16:28:13 awesome 16:28:23 *add^_* goes on a happy trip 16:29:02 sounds like I've inhaled some psyco-something drug 16:29:06 uh 16:29:11 didn't mean it like that ^^ 16:29:36 sweet :-D 16:31:14 oGMo: Yes, I kind of got that impression as well when it is specifically described as an alternative to JSON and XML. Maybe I should just use CORBA. :-) 16:31:45 tmh: ;) 16:32:05 oGMo: Actually, I'm more interested in storing objects than communicating them across the cloud. 16:32:39 tmh: looks fairly easy to implement at least 16:33:09 oGMo: The main appeal of something like MessagePack is that it is advertised as language independent and seems to have an active community. 16:34:37 steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:34:45 oGMo: The downside is that I still have to specialize the pack/unpack methods on specific objects and map the object to the MessagePack data structures. At that point, I might as well use some custom rolled format. 16:34:49 -!- markskilbeck [~chris@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:34:53 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:37:11 -!- benny [~benny@i577A26B6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:41:12 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:04 Jubb [~ghost@c-68-33-4-101.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:05 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:43:37 tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:17 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5DD436CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:09 -!- loke_ [~elias@bb116-15-153-239.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:46:16 markskilbeck [~chris@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 16:46:52 loke [~elias@bb116-15-153-239.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:50:09 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5DD436CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:50:31 tmh: just use an rdbms? 16:51:27 Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@188.50.232.110] has joined #lisp 16:51:49 *p_l|backup* considers going old-style and using 8-bit-padded ASN.1 16:54:10 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.89.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:54:17 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:54:34 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 16:56:38 MoALTz [~no@92.18.26.60] has joined #lisp 16:58:14 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:59:47 pnq [~nick@AC81A6AA.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:24 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:01:08 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:01:34 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:41 -!- armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:03:17 lnostdal [~Lars@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:35 armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has joined #lisp 17:07:34 tmh: doesn't rucksack pretty much fullfill that requirement? 17:10:13 Fade: I had forgotten about rucksack and it doesn't seem to be categorized serialization on CLiki. 17:10:40 patrick stein has been working on a serialisation library, too. 17:11:02 well, you mentioned that you were only interested in storing objects, so I thought maybe rucksack overlapped. 17:11:05 tmh: well, it's more of a database than serialization library 17:12:01 Fade: Yep, there seem to be quite a few. I think my main requirement at the moment is the most simple API. I'm probably going to have to actually take the time to try out each library. 17:13:08 I'm also intrigued by some old code defining a SAVE-OBJECT. -> http://www.n-a-n-o.com/lisp/save-object-10.2.lisp 17:13:40 Ugh, although I just noticed that it creates an ASCII representation. 17:14:18 Anyway, looks like there are plenty to choose from. 17:15:23 The only reason I mentioned MessagePack is because it is a pseudo-standard and has RPC if I should ever have a need for it. It would be nice to rely on a single library for all of my serialization needs. 17:16:21 well, if you find a serialisation library that you like, you could get rpc by coupling it to something like zeromq. 17:17:23 groundnuty [~orzech@elj74.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:18:15 Fade: Thanks. 17:18:36 hey, I have learned lisp as a part of my university course few years back - but never did any "practical" programming with it. Now I decided to go back to it and write some software. Are there any books/resouces that would be recomended? 17:18:37 zeromq is pretty impressive. 17:19:02 minion tell groundnuty about PCL 17:19:13 minion: tell groundnuty about PCL 17:19:14 groundnuty: have a look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 17:20:22 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:20:35 Fade: thx and as far as unis/system programming goes any recomended resouces? 17:20:42 minion: tell groundnuty about quicklisp 17:20:42 groundnuty: direct your attention towards quicklisp: Quicklisp aims to make it easy to get started with a rich set of community-developed Common Lisp libraries. http://www.cliki.net/quicklisp 17:20:53 use that to get libraries 17:21:06 add^_^ [~add^_^@h137n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:33 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.138] has joined #lisp 17:21:50 nikodemus: great :). Till recently to get easy/readyto use rich set of lib I used python :) 17:21:57 for system programming, there's sb-posix, osicat, and iolib 17:22:01 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h62n2c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:22:01 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 17:22:08 and cffi 17:22:41 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.26.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:23:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:23:07 anderson [~user@c-76-18-219-103.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:42 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:23:56 -!- redline6561-work [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:24:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:24:49 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-94-44-100-112.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 17:24:49 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 17:24:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-100-112.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 17:24:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:26:43 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.209.160] has joined #lisp 17:26:48 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:27:12 MoALTz [~no@host-92-9-77-82.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:57 varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:28:02 what's m-p-f on 32bit clisp? (or, more generally, what's the smallest m-p-f in current implementations?) 17:29:04 -!- Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@188.50.232.110] has quit [] 17:31:08 m-p-f or m-p-s-f? 17:31:27 m-p-f on 32bit clisp: 16777215 17:31:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:10 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81A6AA.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:33:18 -!- Jubb [~ghost@c-68-33-4-101.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:25 nikodemus: m-p-f. 17:36:10 HG`` [~HG@p5DC0494F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:11 I'm going through some old notes and I now remember why I thought robin hood hashing was such a good fit for ssets. 17:38:08 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.209.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:38:22 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-199-173.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:38:56 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7069.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:39:17 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 17:39:20 oh? 17:39:32 faster ssets would be awesome 17:40:13 how's academia? pressure still up? 17:40:40 yes, but a bit more abstract now that the next deadline is in 2 months. 17:41:24 m-p-f is required to be at least 2^15 17:41:27 robin hood hash tables (with linear open addressing) are sorted sets. It's just that randomisation and leaving gaps in the sorted vector makes lookups and inserts fast as well. 17:42:03 is iteration over the set fast as well? 17:42:05 sqrt of 2^15 is a bit clostrophobic, though. 17:42:26 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:33 and computing the intersection of two ssets? 17:42:34 It's a sorted set in a vector. Iteration, intersection, equality... all fast. 17:42:41 union as well. 17:42:54 that does sound like a good fit 17:43:12 benny [~benny@i577A1637.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:43:52 ziga_ [~ziga@BSN-61-101-100.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:05 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 17:44:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 17:44:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:45:53 -!- HG`` [~HG@p5DC0494F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:46:40 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:28 -!- varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:50:21 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:39 varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:53:25 ziga__ [~ziga@BSN-142-119-189.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:28 pnq [~nick@ACA2038E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:54:43 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 17:54:58 -!- ziga_ [~ziga@BSN-61-101-100.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:55:18 Okay, win for lisp. I have a function processing data in a large number of files. After the first couple results files are written, it's obvious there is an error. I fix the error, compile the function, never stopping the processing, and the remaining files have the correct output. 17:56:27 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-204-74.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:56:54 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:57:54 tmh: well, with gdb and dynamic linking... ;) 18:00:56 pkhuong: That requires more knowledge about gdb and dynamic linking that I care to acquire. 18:03:54 tmh: ... not that much, most of the time... 18:04:54 when dealing with object equality, is the proper way really to write your own equality functions? 18:05:40 hypno: or making sure some pre-existing equality function DTRT for you 18:06:24 for instance, instead of depending on deep equality, you can sometimes hash cons objects instead so that deep and pointer equality are equivalent. 18:08:08 hmm. well, i have a class A with slots B1 and B2. now, i want to see if 1) A1 and A2 are of the same type and 2), that A1->b_i = A2->b_i. 18:08:31 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:09:03 hypno: What are the types of the slots? 18:09:05 are they mutable? 18:10:34 tmh: they are usually a list of other objects. 18:10:59 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:06 pkhuong: not necessairly. i will define operations that always return a new object. 18:11:54 hypno: Now you have to descend into the lists. 18:13:06 tmh: right. i've solved this issue with metod dispatch and checking everything myself. i just wondered if there were any standard stuff built-in for this... 18:13:36 hypno: I think there is a discussion of this issue somewhere. 18:14:14 my gut feeling is that there ought to be an abstraction that would work for just about any object.. 18:14:26 http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/EQUAL.html 18:14:41 penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has joined #lisp 18:15:11 -!- penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5-dev] 18:15:24 penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has joined #lisp 18:15:58 tmh: ah, thanks. 18:17:17 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:18:51 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:52 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:57 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h137n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:19 add^_ [~add^_^@h137n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:26:05 anyone here that's familiar with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksaM14iWFg0 the code in this episode (not necessarily that first part but the completed code from episode 1) 18:26:07 ? 18:26:41 I'm having a problem with the code that he's not having :-( and the code is exactly the same.. 18:27:42 simply put, aref wants three arguments but gets one (apparently), but he doesn't get an error/warning.. 18:28:28 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:28:59 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.183.49] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:02 add^_ pasted "linalg" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122571 18:30:41 add^_: Don't provide both an initarg and an initform 18:31:01 tmh: hm ok, where? 18:31:23 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.112] has joined #lisp 18:31:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.112] has quit [Changing host] 18:31:23 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:31:46 tmh: I'm just following along right now 18:31:55 add^_: Sorry, in the matrix object. That's not the problem with your code. It's just something that shouldn't be done. 18:32:09 tmh: why not? 18:32:28 I thought it was done in practical common lisp (the book too 18:32:31 meh 18:32:36 (the book)* 18:33:46 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/object-reorientation-classes.html 18:34:17 tmh: having both and :initform and an :initarg is perfectly fine and idiomatic 18:34:19 scroll down to object initialization 18:35:13 -!- tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:35:15 hm 18:35:28 No, having initform and initarg will cause problems if you start mucking around with reinitializing objects, see Keene. 18:35:38 bollocks 18:35:47 reinitalization is a special case 18:36:23 add^_: Is the problem in those vec-x etc. macros? 18:36:28 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:36:52 from practical perspective, if there is a valid default, you stick it in :initform 18:37:03 May I paste the 5 row long warning? 18:37:14 it's not that absurd 18:37:45 sure, if you need to make sure reinitialization works right, you need to think about it -- but 99% of the time it doesn't matter 18:37:54 minion: lisppaste 18:37:54 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 18:38:34 rncarpio [~rncarpio@69.239.106.249] has joined #lisp 18:38:39 hm then I'll just post the whole thing, since I can use paste.lisp 18:38:55 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-012-047.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:57 add^_ pasted "warnings" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122572 18:39:09 expires in a hour 18:39:16 hypno: since your objects are immutable, you might be able to hash cons everything and make sure EQ does what you want. 18:39:34 nikodemus: Agreed, but as a matter of style, initarg indicates that the slot value can be provided at initialization, default to :default-initargs, initform indicates that the slot value should be calculated, and if you want to error check slots, use initialize-instance :after. 18:39:59 *shrug* i don't agree 18:40:16 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2038E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:40:18 add^_: Yeah, that's what I was wondering about, matrix-at seems to want three args but that code only gives two 18:40:51 nikodemus: Well, clearly one of us has to be wrong. ;-) 18:42:00 :default-initargs is good when you need to worry about reinitialization, and if you need complex checking or basing slots on others you need initialize-instance/shared-initialize -- but generally /if/ you can express the entire logic of the slot with an :initform and an :initarg, you should, because that places all the information in one place 18:42:03 Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:10 ease of reading is the most important concern 18:42:11 wtf is that code? anyway, in vec-{x,y,z{, you're using matrix-at instead of matrix-data. 18:42:25 Bike: and what's more strange is that he whom I'm following along with is not having any problem with it.. 18:43:11 -!- rncarpio [~rncarpio@69.239.106.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:43:20 aha 18:43:27 rncarpio [rncarpio@ppp-69-230-118-97.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:27 pkhuong: thanks 18:44:13 pkhuong: now it works :-D 18:44:20 ":export ... #:|setf matrix-at|" This looks like the one-eyed leading the blind, at best. 18:44:38 hm? 18:44:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-8-211.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:12 nikodemus: My only problem with that is that the error checking get's lost if the slot is defined in a subclass. 18:45:21 s/get's/gets/ 18:46:35 Maybe not my only, but that is the biggie. 18:46:49 add^_: the author just has some (seemingly common) misconceptions about packages. 18:46:52 tmh: true -- but redefining slots in subclasses is rare. i actually sometimes name slots with #:uninterned symbols to make sure it doesn't happen 18:47:02 lanthan [~ze@p54B7DFDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:52 pkhuong: oh, could you correct me? Since I'm kinda left in the dark (not literally).. 18:48:01 (well, rare in the kinds of code i write and work on. i suppose there are people who do it all the time for a good reason) 18:48:52 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7DFDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:48:56 add^_: packages export symbols. You can't decide to export or not to export a setf function. If FOO is exported, (setf foo) is just as public. 18:49:57 pkhuong: so it's just unnecessary? 18:49:59 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:50:27 nikodemus: I try not to redefine slots in subclasses as well. I've made it a habit to put all of my error checking in initialize-instance :after so that subclasses only have to error check specifics to the subclass. That practice then feeds into my philosophy about initform and initarg. 18:50:42 the #:|setf matrix-at| ? 18:50:47 add^_: right. 18:50:56 so I can just erase it :-) 18:51:05 That exports a symbol whose name is "setf matrix-at" (in lower case, at that) 18:51:38 hm, I get an error when I erase it 18:53:25 An error or a warning? Either way: it's hard to remove things from a package's export list once the package has been created. 18:53:40 add^_ pasted "linalg defpackage error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122573 18:53:58 hm warning, but it doesn't compile 18:54:09 ah 18:54:12 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:54:57 that'd explain it 18:55:15 As the paste site reminds you when you make a new paste, it's nicer to use annotations instead of creating three related pastes. 18:55:24 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:55:56 I just noticed that :-P 18:56:14 But oh well, two of them are going to be deleted in about 1 hour 18:56:30 I maybe should request a deletion of the first one too... 18:56:41 -!- anderson [~user@c-76-18-219-103.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:18 I accidentally chose permanent on the first post with all the code 18:57:23 redline6561-work [~redline65@adsl-065-015-084-249.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:31 rather, carelessly chose permanent... 18:58:01 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.132] has joined #lisp 18:58:08 anderson [~user@c-76-18-219-103.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:16 there, reloaded slime/sbcl, no more errors/warnings 18:59:52 well, a couple of warnings but still :-P 19:00:01 only style-warnings 19:00:03 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:00:22 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:01:10 probably only because it compiles it from top to bottom :-) 19:01:26 hm, no? 19:01:41 *add^_* feels like he's almost spamming in the channel... 19:02:04 nikodemus: M-x common-lisp-set-style doesn't work. I think completing-read wants an alist, not a list. 19:02:37 not if you COMPILE-FILE. LOAD will basically execute each form from top to bottom; COMPILE-FILE is allowed to consider the whole file. 19:03:27 tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 19:04:36 hm ok 19:05:28 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 19:06:13 nikodemus pasted "if you evaluate this in emacs, do things work then?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122574 19:07:03 proper emacsheads must cringe at my elisp style. shamelessly using stuff from cl.el 19:10:18 xan_ [~xan@216.Red-88-19-137.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:20 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:29 rtoym: any other xemacs issues so far? 19:14:43 maybe i should just bite the bullet and install xemacs as well :) 19:20:57 nikodemus: That works much better. No error messages. 19:21:25 If you don't need xemacs, I wouldn't install it. 19:22:15 well, if i keep hacking on elisp stuff in slime, it would be good if i can verify that i don't accidentally break xemacs compatibility 19:22:25 ok, i'll commit that 19:23:50 I don't update slime too often, but I do eventually update, and will report issues when possible. 19:24:44 committed 19:25:01 i can't believe you're the only one who uses xemacs, though 19:25:03 pkhuong: re. robin hood -- how would would expect it to compare to patricia trees as sset? 19:26:34 currently we need to copy the constraint set in a few places. i have zero intuition if the total cost of always using a purely functional set would be smaller or greater 19:31:25 -!- markskilbeck [~chris@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:33:10 for some reason I get a style-warning when making a closure :-O 19:33:43 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:49 although it displays the correct code and everything but I can't macro-expand back to the same result -.- 19:35:04 zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 19:35:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:36:02 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:13 homie` [~levent.gu@xdsl-84-44-152-235.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:36:36 macroexpand* 19:38:10 -!- redline6561-work [~redline65@adsl-065-015-084-249.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:38:21 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-84-44-155-189.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:38:47 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:51 -!- rncarpio [rncarpio@ppp-69-230-118-97.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [] 19:40:04 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:40:42 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 19:43:33 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:44:09 pnq [~nick@ACA23576.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:09 nikodemus: we have a ton of tiny consets. IIUC, patricia tries would end up being sorted vectors in these cases. 19:49:54 ICBW, but I think that ost of our copies are immediately followed by an adjoin. 19:50:02 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 19:50:08 The daily obvious. . . geeze cl-ppcre is nice 19:50:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-100-112.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 19:50:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-100-112.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 19:50:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:51:57 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-012-047.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:52:00 chegibari [~chegibari@151.59.15.167] has joined #lisp 19:53:47 urandom__ [~user@p548A6E15.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:59 pkhuong: iirc the biggest cost that applies equally no matter what set we use (unless we add more cleverness) is find-constaints 19:54:13 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-9-77-82.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:54:44 because currently it needs to do a linear search 20:00:39 nha [~prefect@p3E9E43C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:17 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23576.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:01:41 i was thinking that maybe we could (1) split the constraints into ctype, lvar/constant, and lambda-var constaints, and then (2) use a mix of sset-numbers for -x and -y as prefix indexes. so the constraint-number would be something like (concat-int (+ (sset-number x) (sset-number y)) ) 20:02:31 which should allow a faster find for patricia trees when there are many constaints 20:03:12 have you had any ideas of how to speed up find-constraint with non-tree ssets? 20:05:09 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-057-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:05:35 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-94-44-11-29.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 20:05:37 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 20:05:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-11-29.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 20:05:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:05:40 Modius check out cl-interpol too, it lets you write string literals without \ being the escape character. so you can write \d\s instead of \\d\\s 20:06:18 nikodemus: hash on both arguments. 20:07:54 doh, i'm an idiot :) 20:08:27 lester- [~lester@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 20:09:36 kennyd: Thanks. Been boning up on corners of ruby recently, I figure it got this out of perl. . 20:10:16 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:18 kennyd: What's the best way to activate alternate syntax - put it in an eval-when at the top of the source file? 20:10:21 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A6E15.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:10:47 urandom__ [~user@p548A6123.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:56 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:13:07 hello. I'm trying to find out how to work with asdf libraries. right now I have make-image.lisp that writes an image file after loading all the libraries with asdf::load-system. is that the normal way to do it? 20:13:35 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:14:01 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 20:14:33 Modius you can put it wherever, since cl-interpol string literals are prefixed with #? or #?r reader macros 20:14:59 you get C-like escapes too. #?"this is a tab\n. a newline\n" 20:15:13 #?"this is a tab\t. a newline\n" even 20:15:21 kennyf: I mean, I assume than in a compiling library they don't get activated beyond the file scope, right? I'm just asking where you tend to activate this sort of thing. 20:16:20 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-057-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:16:37 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:28 eval-when appears to be the way to do it, but I'm pretty new to lisp don't take my word for it 20:17:29 Maybe I have a more generic lisp question: Do toplevel syntax changes extend beyond the currently compiling file? 20:17:31 lester-: you can do that. I think a lot of people don't bother saving an image: fasls are persistent, so the libraries won't be recompiled each time you use them. 20:19:39 Modius: if they're done correctly, no 20:20:03 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:31 correctly: (eval-when (...) (setq *readtable* (your-readtable))) 20:20:46 LOAD and COMPILE-FILE bind *READTABLE* for just that reasong 20:21:06 however, if you modify the readtable directly, then yes -- changes will leak 20:23:54 I suggest to use named-readtables instead which provide all the sugar on top of that 20:27:29 redline6561-work [~redline65@adsl-98-92-85-119.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:41 tcr1: question. would it in your opinion be kosher for slime-cl-indent.el apply your add something like you slime-declare-dispatch-macro-char thing to lisp-mode-hook? 20:28:02 geez, my grammar is really out of the window today 20:28:30 haha 20:28:51 anyone know how to set a directory to not read-only in windows? I uncheck the box put it keep rechecking itself. I am trying to delte-file but any attempt at it is throwing file-error and saying permissions denied 20:30:27 ehine1: you probably have some process (antivirus-like?) what keeps making it read-only 20:31:33 pnq [~nick@ACA3032F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:38 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-190-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:13 nikodemus: that might be it, though I am not sure how to check for it o.O lol 20:33:15 any chance it has to do with the file being in ACL's directory? 20:33:16 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:30 no idea 20:33:36 alright, thanks 20:33:42 lanthan [~ze@p54B7DFDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:58 well, if it's in acl's directory it's always possible it's acl that's doing it 20:34:45 yeah I'm thinking it might be, guess I will move it around and see what happens 20:39:26 add^_^ [~add^_^@h133n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:18 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h137n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:41:18 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 20:43:25 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:45:11 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:45:21 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-190-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:46:54 -!- nha [~prefect@p3E9E43C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:50:08 tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has joined #lisp 20:51:22 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:48 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 20:52:26 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CF14C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:55:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-46-251.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:57:25 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 20:58:32 Is there some sort of library for cross-CL hash-tables that support tests other than #'eq #'eql or #'equal? 20:59:19 i'm not sure. but most implementations allow you to define your own 20:59:37 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@2.149.29.184.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 21:00:29 hmm... well that'll do nicely then. 21:01:37 Thanks 21:02:49 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.240.128.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:25 in sbcl, you can use define-hash-table-test, or just pass a custom :test as long as you also pass a custom :hash-function 21:03:48 cmucl has define-hash-table-test as well, though the api is a bit different 21:03:56 acl has :hash-function 21:04:12 not sure about abcl, clisp, ecl, and ccl 21:05:13 otherwise, there's GENHASH 21:05:41 which isn't bad, but probably doesn't outperform native hash tables on any metric. 21:08:14 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:57 pnq1 [~nick@AC819792.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:09:47 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA3032F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:09:49 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:09:54 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 21:10:46 pkhuong: if i rip out the bit-vector ssets and switch sset to linear probing as temporary measure to the existing asymptotically awful cases, do you have branches that are going to squeak with conflicts? 21:10:58 bit-vector consets, even 21:11:01 I might be about to commit something, actually. 21:11:23 oh, i'll leave you to it then :) 21:11:40 ssets or consets too? 21:11:43 both 21:11:48 \o/ 21:12:55 i'll assign 394206 to you then :) 21:13:09 nikodemus: abcl doesn't allow user defined hash functions. 21:13:36 nikodemus: we do have weak hash tables now, though. that's already a big step 21:14:19 nikodemus: do you know if we still have access to the code that triggered the switch to bit vectors? 21:14:27 do you use java's hashtables? (i can see how user-defined hash-functions could be tricky then) 21:15:01 pkhuong: without doing anything to ssets, bit-vector constraints are faster for sbcl self build 21:15:02 no, we have our own, but never had anyone ask for user-definable hash functions. 21:15:11 I think we can support them quite easily. 21:15:34 it's an easy awesome feel-good feature :) 21:15:35 nikodemus: even with java's hash table, you'd only have to wrap keys. 21:16:26 -!- tmh [63972b39@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:16:46 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:16:55 our hash table is inspired by java.util.concurrent.ConcurrentHashMap 21:16:56 re. bit vectors -- you do need to make sure the host has the sset consets to see the difference, though. target build doesn't really show it 21:17:30 java's hash table requires locking, where ours only requires locking for (some) insertions 21:18:13 i don't know what else richard measured, possibly some ita code, or maybe just a bunch of libraries 21:18:39 nikodemus: thanks for helping with the debugger issue: lisppaste seems to be rather stable again 21:18:44 I think ITA had some code 21:18:55 "some", hah 21:19:22 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:36 but iirc most things that have made a difference in ita compile times also show up in sbcl's self-build 21:19:57 k. 21:20:49 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:07 fisxoj [~fisxoj@245.sub-174-254-176.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:17 the bug i assigned you has a test-case that shows the bit-vectors at their worst. i don't know what shows them at their best 21:22:52 btw, sset used to stand for sorted set, right? i.e., I can assume that sset-element-number are unique? 21:23:27 -!- ziga__ [~ziga@BSN-142-119-189.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:05 -!- pnq [~nick@AC819792.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: food] 21:24:25 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-174-224.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:28 y3llow_ [~y3llow@111-240-174-224.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:11 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-174-124.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:26:21 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:26:38 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-174-124.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:26:46 -!- y3llow_ is now known as y3llow 21:28:24 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:31:24 pkhuong: i'm pretty sure on both counts. sset-element-number comes from (incf *compiler-sset-counter*), and i don't see anything frobbing it 21:31:59 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:38:13 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h133n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:47:05 nha [~prefect@p3E9E43C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:29 -!- nha [~prefect@p3E9E43C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: This is not a quit message.] 21:52:36 nha_ [~prefect@p3E9E43C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:59 HG` [~HG@p5DC0494F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:58 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:11 -!- nha_ [~prefect@p3E9E43C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:03:32 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75574c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:38 pnq [~nick@ACA368AB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:09:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:10:10 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 22:10:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 22:10:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:11:32 catphive [~brenmill@c-76-104-152-119.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:11 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:21:04 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:22:22 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:22:45 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC0494F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:23:52 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:21 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-141-234.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:30:53 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-218-55.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rread] 22:31:00 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:33:28 is there a portable library for non-blocking input? (from stdin) 22:35:51 minion: iolib 22:35:51 iolib: I/O(mainly networking) library containing: a BSD sockets library, a DNS resolver and an I/O multiplexer that supports select(2), epoll(4) and kqueue(2). http://www.cliki.net/iolib 22:35:54 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@245.sub-174-254-176.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:36:03 lester-: this might work 22:36:10 alternatively, read-char-no-hang (: 22:36:10 thanks 22:38:14 is there a standard function for getting the nth cdr of a list? 22:39:24 clhs nthcdr 22:39:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_nthcdr.htm 22:42:17 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:31 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp 22:44:20 -!- no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:46:42 -!- penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has left #lisp 22:48:57 penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has joined #lisp 22:49:28 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:30 DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:04:15 -!- tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:04:26 tempire_ [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:07 -!- redline6561-work [~redline65@adsl-98-92-85-119.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:08:19 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:09:21 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:11:00 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:12:23 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:19:52 redline6561-work [~redline65@adsl-98-92-85-119.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:16 Vowyer [~sebas@71-208-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 23:27:46 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:28:05 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0103de.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:31:22 -!- Intensity [w3LtOPzWFS@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:33:45 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:35:27 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 23:37:53 Intensity [7laoh6XvKb@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 23:40:03 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-46-251.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:45:11 -!- armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:46:02 Any comments on the best/solid JSON CL library? 23:47:34 -!- Demosthenex [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:48:48 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:52:13 Modius: I really like st-json 23:52:38 ISTR cl-json had a float printing bug that drove me to st-json, which gets that right (: 23:53:35 *_3b* votes that whichever doesn't use JSON as a package name or nickname is the best :p 23:53:49 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-204-74.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:00 *pkhuong* adds package-local nicknames to lp 23:54:26 *_3b* needs to find some time to do some more spec-level thinking about pln