00:00:43 can I locally define a setf function? in the same way as an flet? I assume it's not possible, but it'd be a nice abstraction at the moment. 00:01:02 <|3b|> i guess you could count any values in the array before the N pushes as K 00:01:23 <|3b|> (flet (((setf foo) (...) ...))) doesn't work? 00:01:30 it should. 00:01:37 it should?! awesome! 00:01:39 madnificent: 00:01:39 clhs flet 00:01:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_flet_.htm 00:03:12 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:03:13 O(n+n) = O(n) 00:04:11 I don't know where I should read into that, that setf is allowed? (I was looking into let, as I wanted to define it for a specific variable, but a function wouldn't be that bad of an abstraction either) 00:05:26 <|3b|> the list (setf foo) is a 'function name' 00:06:16 madnificent: clhs flet: the name of the function is a function name. Follow links to the glossary. 00:06:21 (vector-push-extend 2 (make-array 1 :initial-element 2 :adjustable t)) 00:06:34 complains that the array does not have a fill pointer 00:06:42 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:06:44 catphive: yes, it needs a fill pointer. 00:06:54 <|3b|> catphive: right, vector-push and vector-push-extend need a fill-pointer 00:07:04 catphive: for the vector-push. The adjustable part is for the extend. 00:07:30 <|3b|> so add :fill-pointer 0 or similar to the array creation 00:07:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:48 pjb: searching that page for 'the name of the function' doesn't yield any results here. is it in the flet page? 00:08:06 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:08:13 Arguments and Values: function-name---a function name. 00:08:13 00:08:17 ok, can strings be made ajustable? 00:08:22 catphive: sure. 00:08:32 catphive: strings are vectors like any other vector. 00:08:45 <|3b|> madnificent: in syntax: "flet ((function-name ...", in 'arguments and values: "function-name--a 'function name'." where 'function name' is glossary link 00:08:55 pjb: ah, thanks 00:08:59 |3b|: thanks! 00:09:23 a bit far away to discover it, but it's a great feature nonetheless 00:09:40 <|3b|> contrast with macrolet, which only allows 'name' which is a 'a symbol' 00:09:40 madnificent: this is a reference, each word counts. 00:10:34 chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has joined #lisp 00:10:34 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has quit [Changing host] 00:10:34 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 00:10:40 pjb: yes, I know... I don't find it to be incorrect, but I do find it normal that I didn't find that... it'll clearly be easier to find a similar feature in the future 00:11:08 |3b|: a good distinction 00:11:18 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.14.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:11:19 Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:11:40 actually, although it's defined that setf may be used there, I don't see a definition of the required behavior 00:11:49 -!- rukubites [~user@d211-30-65-14.meb9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:12:33 madnificent: well, it's more complex, you'd have to read about setf, defsetf, get-setf-expansion, and places. It's spread all over the hyperspec... 00:14:48 But it works perfectly: http://pastebin.com/f7TnYKQw 00:16:21 minion: lisppaste is down. 00:16:21 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 00:17:09 Location: http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp / Proxy Error / The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server. / The proxy server could not handle the request GET /new/lisp. / Reason: Error reading from remote server 00:17:09 00:18:50 -!- xan_ [~xan@190.Red-193-152-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:19:05 xan_ [~xan@190.Red-193-152-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:38 pjb: oh yes, I believed it would work. I was wondering :) 00:20:56 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:21:00 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:41 lnostdal [~lnostdal@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:44 zarus [~zarus@129.89.198.245] has joined #lisp 00:25:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@190.Red-193-152-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:25:56 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 00:29:53 -!- foocraft_ [~ewanas@89.211.214.224] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:32:00 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-203-96.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:33:12 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-203-96.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:53 guther [guther@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:07 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-203-96.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 00:37:45 should sbcl throw an error when I define both a previously undefined function and the setf on that function in the same flet? (or labels for that matter). 00:38:09 <|3b|> foo and (setf foo) are completely independent functions 00:38:18 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:38:43 <|3b|> (aside from the obvious bit about using the same symbol in their names) 00:39:58 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 00:40:43 <|3b|> the usual scope rules for FLET apply, so you can't call (setf foo) from foo defined in the same flet, or from itself, but otherwise should be no problem 00:41:11 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:41:17 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 00:41:58 |3b|: it errors on the compilation of it 00:42:18 *madnificent* searches before thinking he has found a bug 00:42:30 *|3b|* can't suggest anything else without seeing code and/or errors 00:42:47 example 00:43:04 -!- jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:44:43 |3b|: you've given me all I wanted :D I'll paste if I can find it 00:46:59 did you (setf foo x) or (setf (symbol-function foo) x)? 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02:33:41 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:33:56 In the first case, the new mechanism could call DOCUMENTATION when the language is (say) US English. For the second case, either DOCUMENTATION tramplines to the new mechanism, supplying (say) the value of *language* as an additional argument, or (SETF DOCUMENTATION) is used when the language changes. 02:34:07 *trampolines 02:36:49 I guess now that I think about what I just wrote, in either case it would be useful to have a new, separate mechanism that already uses internationalization. 02:37:24 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:39:56 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:08 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:41:56 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-199-173.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:42:51 pyrony [~epic@107.24.197.142] has joined #lisp 02:43:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:43:12 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 02:43:19 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:25 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:48:19 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 02:50:41 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.6.112] has joined #lisp 02:51:00 phoodus [~davidh@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 02:51:09 -!- Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:51:09 leyyer_s` [~user@222.210.67.122] has joined #lisp 02:51:43 In a threaded environment in SBCL, is it problematic to do a force-output on a socket outside of a lock? 02:52:15 We're debugging an intermittent IO issue, found that but not sure it's actually a problem, as we're not reproducible yet 02:52:53 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:54:04 -!- leyyer_su [~user@222.210.67.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:08:30 kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined 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[~nick@AC811F1F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:11:35 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.32.201] has left #lisp 05:12:12 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.32.201] has joined #lisp 05:14:37 nostoi [~nostoi@67.Red-79-156-52.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:17 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.163.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:34 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.143.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:20:12 gko [~gko@111.81.143.202] has joined #lisp 05:21:20 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@67.Red-79-156-52.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:21:48 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:23:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-6.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:25:49 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:25:58 hello lispers 05:26:09 hello kiuma 05:26:34 hey beach , how are you ? 05:27:24 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:27:35 kiuma: Not bad. Started working seriously on SICL again a few days ago. You? 05:28:42 Fine thanks, started working on a new http server (a mix between an event based and thread pool one) 05:29:22 so yesterday I've just released thread-pool library :) 05:29:35 I saw that. Congratulations! 05:29:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-6.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:30:21 thanks! what do you think about ? nice or crap ? 05:32:05 tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 05:34:06 kiuma: I haven't checked it out, because I don't need anything like that right. I'll let you know when I do. 05:34:22 ok, thanks 05:36:22 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:41:55 mrSpec [~Spec@89-68-9-92.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 05:41:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-68-9-92.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 05:41:55 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:42:31 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 05:45:29 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.83.140] has joined #lisp 05:46:54 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 05:49:33 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 05:49:58 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:03 -!- chegibari [~chegibari@151.59.15.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:50:03 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-187-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:40 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:52:38 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 05:52:44 -!- Boognish [~david@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:53:44 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 05:56:15 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:56:45 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-80-141.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:03 -!- callen [~callen@li125-243.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:58:03 callen [~callen@unaffiliated/callen] has joined #lisp 05:59:58 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 06:00:28 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.210.111] has joined #lisp 06:00:30 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-113-192.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:00:33 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 06:01:59 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-199-173.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:02:26 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 06:03:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-29.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:04:06 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.6.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:04:10 ASau [~user@95-26-236-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:05:26 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:07:25 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-141-220.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:11:56 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:17:10 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:20:17 kiuma | so yesterday I've just released thread-pool library :) 06:20:23 plz quicklisp :) 06:20:43 naryl, should I mail Xach ? 06:21:03 He prefers the github tracker. 06:21:13 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:21:18 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-180-204-76.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:21:25 naryl, good 06:21:56 can you give it a try before ql release. just to be sure I don't release crap 06:22:39 Will do in... eight or so hours. 06:24:27 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-83.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:28:40 do I wait for the ql request ? 06:30:37 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 06:32:57 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:33:07 good morning 06:33:57 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has joined #lisp 06:35:38 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 06:37:24 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:02 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:39:12 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has joined #lisp 06:40:00 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.183] has joined #lisp 06:41:42 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.132] has joined #lisp 06:46:47 hi mvilleneuve 06:47:43 kiuma: eager-futures2 currently maintained by vsedach internally includes a thread-pool implementation which has some useful performance tricks. You may want to take a look at it: https://github.com/vsedach/Eager-Future2 06:48:01 The problem is that it's thread-pool is spread evenly over the whole library -_- 06:52:58 kiuma: I gave it a try. It works! :) 06:53:03 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 06:58:04 stis [~stis@host-90-235-230-201.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 06:59:14 who broke lisppaste? 06:59:29 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 07:02:29 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.83.140] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:02:43 naryl, thanks 07:02:57 kenanb [~kenanb@95.14.90.206] has joined #lisp 07:03:36 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:53 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-199-173.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:06 I have to go , l8r 07:04:12 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:04:50 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:09 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.221.66] has joined #lisp 07:06:37 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.210.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:06:39 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 07:08:16 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13:24 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:13:48 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:14:45 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-83.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:15:09 minion: memo for nikodemus: managed to get a failing deadlock-detection.4 test -- it fails on exceeding SB-KERNEL:*MAXIMUM-ERROR-DEPTH* 07:15:09 Remembered. I'll tell nikodemus when he/she/it next speaks. 07:15:22 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:19:42 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:20:02 -!- catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-swimjfhhtfsnejmk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:21:09 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-5.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:22:37 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:24:12 catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-fgyqwizxiqrbudxl] has joined #lisp 07:25:59 oudeis [~oudeis@82.166.248.14] has joined #lisp 07:27:52 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.221.66] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:28:57 -!- sellout- [~Adium@212.3.9.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:32:14 val415 [irc2gowebc@ppp-156-56.98-62.inwind.it] has joined #lisp 07:32:44 hi 07:33:01 who could suggest to me a good lisp enviroment? 07:33:33 <_3b> sbcl+emacs+slime 07:33:45 mms 07:33:46 bcl? 07:33:50 *sbCL? 07:33:58 i use Lispbox, is thatgood? 07:34:03 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:34:17 amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:52 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 07:35:06 <_3b> i think it has emacs+slime, not sure how current the slime is though, and if i remember right it lets you slect from a few lisp implementations, most of which should be OK 07:35:10 val415: What do you need it for? 07:35:37 programming for fun 07:35:57 Lispbox is good then. 07:36:07 good 07:36:23 Or proprietary LispWorks. 07:36:38 hi 07:38:34 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-33-96.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:39:24 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:34 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:39:48 -!- val415 [irc2gowebc@ppp-156-56.98-62.inwind.it] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 07:41:37 -!- insomniaSalt 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-!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-204-73.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:59:00 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-246-28.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:00:03 fasta [1334259@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:00:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:00:32 Can I define a macro which looks at the lexical environment and based on the existence of certain names has then different behaviour? 09:01:01 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:01:09 yes ... 09:01:11 clhs defmacro 09:01:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defmac.htm 09:01:23 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 09:01:30 look at &environment 09:02:17 flip214: I am referring to variables available at the call-site. 09:02:28 flip214: or expand-site. 09:02:36 flip214: not where it was defined. 09:02:45 hmmm 09:03:39 So, suppose you have (let ((i 3)) (my-macro-call)) and you want to do something different depending on whether the first bounds variable is i. 09:03:45 bound* 09:04:35 Or let's say you want to find the first defined function. 09:05:10 So, really querying the system, essentially for arbitrary programmer input. 09:07:14 fasta: what is it you want to do exactly? 09:07:51 fasta: because what you just described seems very misguided 09:10:17 jdz: I am asking for the limits of the CL macro system. 09:10:54 fasta: without knowing what you're after, you probably want to look at the environment enquiry stuff, which is described in CLtL2 but is not in the standard. Many implementations have some variant of it however 09:10:58 fasta: a macro is a just a function that transforms code 09:11:01 it might not be possible in every implementation 09:11:13 you could use eg. sbcl-specific hacks to do that 09:11:15 jdz: so, that is a local transformation? 09:11:31 jdz: it cannot just traverse the current s-expression? 09:11:39 -!- lanthan [~ze@46.253.54.75] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:11:42 fasta: yes, macro can transform the code that it is given, not that surrounds it 09:11:42 That is, of the stuff outside of it. 09:12:18 jdz: right, so I am interested in whatever is outside of it. 09:12:55 fastta: for instance look at variable-information and so on 09:13:07 fasta: sorry misspell.. 09:15:40 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:17:11 fasta: Have a look at the environment argument to macroexpand. 09:18:37 fasta: Then see that it isn't very useful, and instead try informing the macro about its environment by using macrolet, symbol-macrolet, etc. 09:18:53 Or rethink what you're trying to do, since it's probably a bad idea. 09:19:24 Zhivago: but the executive summary is that can do arbitrary stuff with the environment or not? 09:19:46 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:46 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@95.14.90.206] has left #lisp 09:19:47 Or is CL really not made to do this? 09:21:09 fasta: you cannot change the environment, only the body of the macro 09:22:52 fasta: imagine if you could change the environment (and actually did). then another macro somewhere deeper will change your environment. looks like a lose-lose situation to me. 09:22:52 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7550d3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:48 fasta: what macros are good for is "establishing environment" 09:24:18 fasta: what you can do is to write an englobing macro: (looking-at-bindings (let ((i 3)) (my-macro-call))) looking-at-bindings could do the necessary code-walking to collect the bindings for perusal by my-macro-call. 09:25:55 easyE` [pUob17Pg6r@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 09:26:07 Let's take a simple example: suppose I have a (defun foo-collector () ....) and I want to refer to the function name somewhere. Is that easy to do? 09:26:18 fasta: or just define a macro MY-SPECIAL-LET, which would do the magic you want 09:26:19 (somewhere with .....) 09:26:54 fasta: function name is a symbol 09:27:11 fasta: you can define recursive functions, you know? 09:27:33 jdz: let's say that I want the function to print its own name. 09:27:42 jdz: to be more concrte. 09:27:48 concrete* 09:28:14 In Forth doing that is a simple thing to do. 09:28:44 well, function is actually just a code blob (anonymous); you can bind that code to as many symbols as you want. 09:29:02 pjb_ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:29:13 jdz: I mean the _name_ of the function, not the code. 09:29:28 (let ((fn (lambda () 42))) (setf (symbol-function 'foo) fn) (setf (symbol-function 'bar) fn)) 09:29:45 That is not what I meant. 09:30:02 But that shows that what you're asking for is ambigous. 09:30:07 functions have no name. 09:30:11 Or could be. 09:30:13 antoszka: I disagree. 09:30:30 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 09:30:32 foo-collector should simply print "foo-collector" without the programmer specifying "foo-collector". 09:30:38 It cannot be more specific. 09:30:50 fasta: then you don't use DEFUN 09:31:05 fasta: (DEFUN is just a macro, too) 09:31:12 jdz: the question is whether one can. 09:31:26 I think a useful macro system should be able to do so. 09:31:34 fasta: to do what exactly? 09:31:49 jdz: I think I just said that. 09:32:07 fasta: i don't see how your desire to get function name is related to the usefulness of a macro system... 09:32:40 jdz: let's say the macro systems are useful, but I think there should be no restrictions at all. 09:32:54 At least if you call it the #1-programmable programming language. 09:33:10 fasta: which restrictions? 09:33:25 jdz: apparently the one which makes it impossible to do what I said. 09:33:44 fasta: How do you get the name of an integer in Forth? 09:33:59 beach: you can't. 09:34:08 beach: but you can get the name of a colon definitio. 09:34:12 definition. 09:34:16 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-28-121.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:24 WHAT? That seems like such an easy thing to do. 09:34:30 Why is it not possible? 09:34:35 Which is the obvious equivalent of defun. 09:34:44 beach: I am not the CL expert. 09:34:59 fasta: That is why I am asking you about Forth. 09:35:14 beach: huh? 09:35:20 beach: in Forth you can do it. 09:35:32 fasta: Get the name of an integer? 09:35:42 beach: are you trolling me? 09:35:58 beach: I never ever said anything about getting the name of an integer. 09:36:08 fasta: No, I did. 09:36:16 beach: yes, and it is completely irrelevan.t 09:36:31 oh, so opinionated we are. 09:36:41 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-134-223.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:36:41 I will ask it in formal language again. 09:37:04 fasta: the fundamental principle of lisp, is the sexp, and with the sexp, the lexical scope the list introduces. 09:37:13 fasta: Just the way integers don't generally have names, in CL, functions don't generally have names. So you can't get the name of a function. 09:37:25 Isn't what you're asking for actually unrelated to the macro system at all and a misunderstanding of that it actually is supposed to do? 09:37:30 Is there an expression x, such that (defun f() (x())) (x) prints "f" to stdout? 09:37:35 in other words, a function is as first class an object as an integer 09:37:50 fasta: so as explained, you cannot have a macro that knows anything about its environment, unless you wrap the environment in another macro to do the job. 09:38:01 pjb: ok. 09:38:19 fasta: &environment parameters are opaque objects used only to let a macro call macroexpand in its environment. 09:38:33 fasta: no, but there is an expression (my-defun f () ...) that does 09:38:39 fasta: however, there is one thing you can use to _apparently_ break this correspondance between sexp and scope. 09:38:39 So, are there big libraries which turn CL into a domain specific program transformation language? 09:38:45 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:38:46 fasta: it is the reader macros. 09:38:57 So, stuff which for example collects all locations of all variabels, etc.? 09:39:02 variables* 09:39:06 fasta: you can start your file with #!looking-at-bindings and then add any number of sexps. 09:39:30 Your reader macro would read the file, and wrap everything in your (looking-at-binndings ...) macro. 09:39:56 Writing such a #!looking-at-bindings is trivial. 09:40:07 Yes, I can imagine that. 09:40:15 (no sarcasm) 09:40:31 Writing a (looking-at-bindings ...) is less trivial (you need a code walker, or you can use the trick of defining macrolets). 09:40:59 peterhil_ [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 09:41:17 Are there innermost/outermost code traversing libraries? 09:41:39 fasta: if you just want to book-keep the symbols who are fbound to functions by defun, the simpliest is to do what jdz said: do not use cl:defun. Shadow it, and define your own defun macro to do the bookkeeping. 09:41:43 So, again, domain specific program transformation code like Stratego has? 09:41:56 fasta: yes, there are code walker libraries. 09:42:08 pjb: what is the 'best'? 09:42:24 The one I'm writing (but it's not completed yet). 09:42:28 Try them out. 09:42:56 pjb: yeah, the stuff I write is also always the best. Funny isn't it ;) 09:42:57 fasta: but again, unless you have a general need, you don't really need to use a code walker. 09:44:18 fasta: it's trivial to do: (shadow 'defun) (defmacro defun (name bindings &body body) `(cl:defun ,name ,bindings (flet ((my-name () ',name)) ,@body))) 09:44:22 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 09:44:38 There's really no point in loading a code walker library, not alone using one, just for that. 09:45:14 That was only the trivial example to understand the general principle. 09:45:20 Thanks all. 09:45:45 fasta: the problem is that for all the real problems you may come, you will find such a trivial solution. 09:45:50 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:46:09 fasta: the rare cases where you need a code walker are thing such as implementing continuations. Highly technical, and higly rare. 09:46:44 pjb: I happen to know how that works. 09:46:50 Joreji [~thomas@75-055.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:47:19 pjb: I think you once explained me first class continuations in Scheme ;) 09:47:28 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 09:55:25 sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #lisp 09:55:40 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:57:40 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:59:39 Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:00:22 add^_ [~add^_^@h62n2c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 10:01:57 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.143.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:03:19 vozhyk_ [~vozhyk@93.84.102.228] has joined #lisp 10:04:04 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.183] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 10:06:37 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-169.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:44 gko [~gko@111.81.143.202] has joined #lisp 10:07:05 Can I make methods with &optional parameters like this: (defmethod a (&optional ((config config) *config*)) ...) ? 10:09:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:09:32 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:35 sacho [~sacho@90.154.206.145] has joined #lisp 10:09:51 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 10:10:01 -!- Krystof [~csr21@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:10:01 How can I make *config* the default of config of class config? 10:10:04 it would be faster to type it into a repl to find out (as that is all I would do to answer your question). 10:10:40 It says that &optional parameter name must be a symbol 10:10:56 about (config config) 10:11:25 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 10:11:35 vozhyk_: You can't specialize on &optional parameters. 10:11:59 vozhyk_: So the syntax ((config config) ...) doesn't make sense. 10:12:16 thank you 10:12:23 The_Jon_Smith: That is really bad advice indeed. 10:13:00 ok 10:13:25 mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:13:38 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:13:43 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.143.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:13:58 that is how i answer most of my own questions, it is fairly expedient 10:14:31 -!- Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: I Quit] 10:14:47 The_Jon_Smith: It is also wrong, because an implementation might define behavior that is implementation dependent according to the spec. 10:15:14 The_Jon_Smith: Not to mention the possibility that an implementation might be buggy. 10:15:23 if i'm using a given implementation, do i care what other implementations do? 10:15:26 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:15:40 The_Jon_Smith: Example: (eq 100 100) => t in most implementations. 10:15:58 The_Jon_Smith: You should yes. Because the implementation might change in the next version. 10:17:24 that particular example isn't likely to change version to version as it has to do with how integers are implemented 10:17:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 10:20:04 hello everyone 10:20:21 The_Jon_Smith: i can see (eq 100 100) giving nil with (safety 3) 10:20:35 is there a command to make lisp evaluate a backquoted expression? such as: `(save-event-to-users ,table-name ,event-id) 10:21:10 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 10:21:17 mobydick: a command? 10:21:24 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:21:31 mobydick: but there is EVAL (also known as EVIL) 10:21:32 fine, what i do is wrong. i don't wish to get into this, it is needless 10:21:58 The_Jon_Smith: what is needless? the education? 10:22:15 jdz: yes a command to evaluate the expression, where save-event-to-users is a function i want to call with the variables which follow it 10:22:36 mobydick: are you looking for 'eval' ? 10:22:54 xan_ [~xan@190.Red-193-152-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:58 Krystof [~csr21@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:23:09 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-148-215.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:27 jdz: why is it called EVIL? 10:23:49 mobydick: no, it is called EVAL, but using it is EVIL (in most cases) 10:24:09 mobydick: if you end up using EVAL then most probably you're doing something wrong. 10:24:10 jdz: haha whys that? 10:24:18 jdz: ahh ok 10:24:34 jdz: turns out it didnt fix my problem anyways but thansk 10:24:51 mobydick: for instance, in your case you can just use FUNCALL 10:25:18 prip [~foo@host80-120-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:25:49 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-28-121.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:26:27 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:26:32 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@webuds163-27.rz.uni-saarland.de] has joined #lisp 10:27:28 jdz: can you give me some advice regarding using postmodern? 10:27:41 mobydick: maybe 10:28:37 jdz: ok I would like to enter rows into a Postgres table using the :insert-into command, can I do this using a variable as the table name? 10:28:38 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 10:29:18 mobydick: most probably you can. 10:29:31 mobydick: you're not using the DAO objects, are you? 10:30:03 jdz: i have tried every way possible with no luck. I can create tables with :create-table using a variable as the table name no worries using a backquote and comma, but the same method does not seem to agree with :insert-into.. 10:30:22 mobydick: i have a hard time believing it 10:30:37 jdz: no not DAO objects in this case 10:31:23 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:31:30 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326682.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:17 -!- vozhyk_ [~vozhyk@93.84.102.228] has left #lisp 10:32:18 jdz: do DAO objects not work with these commands? 10:32:43 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 10:32:54 mobydick: which commands? 10:33:11 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082A0C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:33:33 mobydick: there are only functions, macros and special forms 10:33:37 mobydick: no commands 10:33:52 jdz: Unless he is using CLIM. :) 10:34:20 mobydick: one way > (apply #'funcall `(save-event-to-users ,table-name ,event-id)) 10:34:21 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 10:34:38 oh way the convo had moved on alot 10:34:44 way/wait 10:35:00 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 10:36:00 jdz: sorry i mean :create-table and :insert-into functions.. 10:36:52 mobydick: those are not functions 10:37:14 jdz: haha ok what are they called then? 10:38:13 mobydick: keywords (or symbols, depending on context) 10:40:00 jdz: When i try and call a variable as the table name using the :insert-into keyword i get an error because my query takes the following form:: "Query: INSERT INTO E'participant-Cam' (event_id, is_host,.... etc." 10:40:12 kodovangelis [~kodovange@lk.84.20.237.78.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:17 jdz: ok keywords then haha sorry i'm always learning.. 10:40:55 mobydick: well, without seeing your code it's not going to be easy. 10:41:27 jdz: I dont understand where the E before 'participant-cam' is coming from 10:41:28 mobydick: but don't despair, i myself always have to look up the postmodern evaluation rules 10:41:47 jdz: ok how do i do that? 10:42:22 mobydick: usual means: read documentation, go to the function/macro definition 10:43:34 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:44:14 jdz: yep i'm looking at the documentation.. by function/macro definition do you mean the postmodern library files? 10:44:37 mobydick: yes, using M-. 10:45:01 jdz: M-? 10:45:48 mobydick: emacs with slime, press dot while holding the meta key 10:46:11 mobydick: or M-x slime-edit-definition 10:47:58 jdz: yep ok and then? 10:48:00 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:48:18 mobydick: marvel at the source code 10:48:48 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:59:34 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 10:59:54 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:01:43 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:01:50 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 11:02:08 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:10 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 11:03:55 pnq [~nick@AC82DEC0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:05:17 Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:08:07 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 11:08:41 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:10:06 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-169.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:10:35 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:12:41 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@lk.84.20.237.78.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:14:33 longfin [~longfin@211.246.68.163] has joined #lisp 11:15:26 maxigas [~user@mail.szervermegoldasok.hu] has joined #lisp 11:15:31 -!- maxigas [~user@mail.szervermegoldasok.hu] has left #lisp 11:15:57 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@webuds163-27.rz.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:19:28 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82DEC0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:20:14 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-230-201.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22:37 merodach [~bagdemir@62.104.226.37] has joined #lisp 11:26:40 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.68.163] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28:05 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:28:17 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:17 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h62n2c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 11:32:20 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 11:33:14 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 11:33:43 pnq [~nick@AC812DEB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:37:16 longfin [~longfin@211.246.68.163] has joined #lisp 11:39:41 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.206.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:39:41 jdz: trying to convince me that I can't type something into a repl to find out if it works. He might be right, but I'm a stubborn bastard. 11:41:59 works/is correct 11:42:48 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:43:57 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:45:20 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 11:48:56 The_Jon_Smith: something may work on a specific REPL on a specific implementation on a specific plateform, but may break if you change anything. 11:49:04 mrBliss` [~user@83.101.76.30] has joined #lisp 11:49:06 The_Jon_Smith: that's the difference between conforming code, and working code. 11:50:11 The_Jon_Smith: read the three-part article: http://blog.llvm.org/2011/05/what-every-c-programmer-should-know.html 11:51:58 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:52:19 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:53:10 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:54:03 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:54:05 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 11:54:12 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:59:41 -!- k9quaint [~quaint@c-98-207-104-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:44 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.68.163] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:54 -!- xan_ [~xan@190.Red-193-152-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:01:24 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:01:58 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:02:25 yeah, just seems kind of language-lawyery to me. Most questions should be answerable by typing an example into the repl and seeing what happens. 12:03:01 otherwise idk the point of having it 12:03:30 but yeah, there are undefined edge cases, so who knows 12:03:50 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bebkruapmyaxqybz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:09:15 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:15 longfin [~longfin@211.246.68.163] has joined #lisp 12:12:10 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.123.252] has joined #lisp 12:13:14 k9quaint [~quaint@c-24-4-97-212.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:24 zbeasnyy [~mornfall@cst-prg-56-255.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 12:16:23 -!- pnq [~nick@AC812DEB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:17:08 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-70-57.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: .] 12:17:53 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 12:18:17 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:22 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:11 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:20:29 -!- ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:20:53 -!- zbeasnyy [~mornfall@cst-prg-56-255.vodafone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:24:02 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:25:15 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:26:00 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:26:17 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-174-62-239-154.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:10 I'm optimizing but I can't convince SBCL that when I'm multiplying two fixnums I can guaranteer the result will also be a fixnum. 12:31:31 Maybe your numbers are too large. 12:32:03 zbeasnyy [~mornfall@cst-prg-124-251.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 12:32:14 The result stays well below most-positive-fixnum. 12:32:24 -!- Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: I Quit] 12:32:44 aerique: (logand most-positive-fixnum (+ a b)) is one way 12:32:44 nikodemus, memo from jdz: managed to get a failing deadlock-detection.4 test -- it fails on exceeding SB-KERNEL:*MAXIMUM-ERROR-DEPTH* 12:32:49 maybe force it with logand? 12:33:27 super` [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:39 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.15] has joined #lisp 12:34:01 aerique: the other is to declare the types as being small enough that the compiler can know they will fit a fixnum: (declare (type (integer 0 100) a b) ; or whatever the actual range is 12:34:30 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:19 minion: memo for jdz: thanks for hammering at it! do you have the error output anywhere? 12:35:19 Remembered. I'll tell jdz when he/she/it next speaks. 12:35:23 nikodemus, phoodus: thanks, logand worked. i've got to remember that. i'll try the other suggestion as well 12:35:25 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 12:35:49 also, (the fixnum (* a b)) seems to optimize it properly for me 12:36:12 phoodus: weird, it didn't for me 12:36:27 well, I had safety 0 and all that 12:36:30 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:37:07 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:38:05 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:38:15 huh, who stole Xach? 12:38:24 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7550d3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:29 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 12:38:54 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-9-252.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:55 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:39:04 centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 12:39:36 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 12:39:53 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 12:40:15 zbeasnyy_ [~mornfall@cst-prg-116-31.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 12:41:08 phoodus: unless the compiler can prove that it will be a fixnum -- or you have safety 0 -- that will generate a typecheck for the result 12:41:13 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:41:29 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-148-215.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:41:30 (and currently force a horribly suboptimal representation for the addition as well) 12:41:45 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.68.163] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:02 ...and with safety 0, if your promise isn't true, you're off to meet nasal demons 12:42:15 -!- zbeasnyy [~mornfall@cst-prg-124-251.vodafone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:42:28 also, what happened to common-lisp.net's darcsweb? 12:42:45 oh, it works now 12:43:40 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 12:44:06 Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:45:24 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 12:45:25 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:48 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:45:54 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:52 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 12:47:24 Good morning, all. 12:47:45 statonjr [~statonjr@64.1.210.2.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:47 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 12:48:52 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:49:01 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@64.1.210.2.ptr.us.xo.net] has left #lisp 12:49:12 hi! 12:49:52 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:51:38 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.155.104] has joined #lisp 12:51:40 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:54:38 zomgbie [~jesus@178-190-88-152.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:57:53 -!- zbeasnyy_ is now known as zbeasnyy 13:00:54 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 13:02:13 -!- kaek [~dsa@88.129.79.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:32 kaek [~dsa@88.129.79.132] has joined #lisp 13:02:55 rme [~rme@50.43.137.118] has joined #lisp 13:03:30 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:05:14 Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:23 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.123.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:07:05 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:09:13 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 13:09:52 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 13:09:52 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 13:10:11 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:46 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 13:11:42 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:12:43 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 13:13:12 -!- peterhil_ [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Quit: Byes!] 13:13:49 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-90.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 13:14:34 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:42 xan_ [~xan@162.61.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:15:50 tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has joined #lisp 13:16:02 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 13:17:19 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 13:17:20 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 13:21:05 -!- zbeasnyy [~mornfall@cst-prg-116-31.vodafone.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:15 -!- centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:22:53 zbeasnyy [~mornfall@cst-prg-22-23.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 13:23:44 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:24:47 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25:30 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:35 centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:30:47 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:30:56 after returning from (bordeaux-threads:condition-wait condition-variable lock) , do I have any guarantees on having the lock supplied to it? 13:32:29 http://trac.common-lisp.net/bordeaux-threads/wiki/ApiDocumentation describes this function, however 'the system' doesn't seem to be defined (and it is vague) 13:32:38 Which socket library would you recommend for everyday stuff (inet6 support welcome). 13:32:48 s/\.$/?/ 13:33:04 -!- tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:33:05 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 13:34:06 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:34:41 redline6561-work [~redline65@66.6.146.58] has joined #lisp 13:34:43 clhs iolib 13:34:43 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for iolib. 13:34:57 er :) 13:35:08 minion: tell antoszka about iolib 13:35:08 antoszka: please see iolib: I/O(mainly networking) library containing: a BSD sockets library, a DNS resolver and an I/O multiplexer that supports select(2), epoll(4) and kqueue(2). http://www.cliki.net/iolib 13:35:26 antoszka: iolib is also what I heard most about, I don't have any practical experience with it though 13:35:35 adeht, madnificent, thx. 13:36:02 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-158-5.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:36:09 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@178-190-88-152.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:37:18 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 13:39:07 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 13:39:17 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:39:27 zomgbie [~jesus@178-190-88-152.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:39:54 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:42 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:02 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 13:41:33 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 13:41:47 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.106.6] has joined #lisp 13:42:27 -!- zbeasnyy [~mornfall@cst-prg-22-23.vodafone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:43:25 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:25 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43:27 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:54 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 13:44:50 I've used iolib. It's decent. 13:45:27 I wish it were a little more "batteries included" but I was still pretty pleased with it 13:45:38 dlowe: what do you mean ? 13:45:39 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 13:46:01 fe[nl]ix: so I have a game running on iolib on dlowe.net:4040 13:46:13 jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-bpvnqpybbeqadowv] has joined #lisp 13:46:15 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 13:46:20 fe[nl]ix: text-based, line-by-line input 13:47:06 I still had to manage my own input buffer to retrieve a line without blocking 13:47:38 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:47:39 oh, that kind of "batteries" :D 13:47:54 madnificent, seems my same problem 13:48:26 I also had to use some unexported functions to write a proper write handler 13:48:52 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:20 ok, one unexported function. I needed fd-monitored-p 13:49:45 dlowe: what for ? 13:49:46 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 13:50:37 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51:08 fe[nl]ix: If I keep a write handler on the fd when I don't have anything to write, the cpu usage spikes. In order to only have a write handler when there's something to write, I need to know if there's already a write handler on the fd 13:51:37 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:52 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 13:53:55 I also check for fd handlers when I remove them when I'm shutting down the socket 13:54:44 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:28 it's been a while since I updated iolib, so maybe those are no longer necessary 13:56:59 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 13:57:12 TDT [~TDT@dhcpw81ffec09.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 13:59:04 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:09 -!- sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has left #lisp 13:59:39 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 14:01:08 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 14:01:39 fe[nl]ix: http://www.dlowe.net/tmp/network.lisp is what I did with it 14:01:57 I also had to do some insane stuff to serialize timers, but I was expecting that 14:03:02 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:15 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-9-252.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:03:22 mk2 [~user@159.92.65.64] has joined #lisp 14:03:37 zbeasnyy [~mornfall@cst-prg-32-251.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 14:04:07 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:29 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-131-34.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:02 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.102] has joined #lisp 14:05:19 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 14:05:29 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 14:06:05 -!- centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:06:40 hi when i open newer file in slime mode using C-x C-f on previous opened file, does it closes the older file ? 14:06:46 or can i access it ? 14:07:05 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:07:13 Emacs should warn you that the file is newer and if you want to reload it 14:07:14 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:37 As far as closing the file, or variables you have accessed, it doesn't modify anything currently evaluated..so you need to reevaluate. 14:07:56 TDT: i mean different files 14:08:08 opening multiple files infact 14:08:39 jingtao` [~jingtaozf@li94-153.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:46 nunb [~Adium@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 14:08:58 Night-Hacks: C-x b switches buffer 14:08:58 If I'm understanding what you're saying, you have 2+ different files, evaluated one of those files and opened another file and are curious if your slime setup is changed by opening the other file. Am i right in this being your question? 14:09:23 -!- nunb [~Adium@121.243.225.226] has quit [Client Quit] 14:09:25 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:29 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 14:10:08 nunb [~Adium@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 14:10:10 -!- nunb [~Adium@121.243.225.226] has quit [Client Quit] 14:10:26 TDT: no 14:10:53 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 14:10:56 i wanted to know do slime keeps the opened files buffer open 14:10:57 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-183.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:10:58 I think mk2 may have hit your question, if you're asking about being able to access 2 files. 14:11:01 jdz [~jdz@host212-111-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:11:20 while opening another file or not 14:11:22 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:41 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.32.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:11:46 TDT: yeah got it. 14:13:00 Slime is independent of your buffers, any buffer. In other words, you could C-c C-c in any file and it should evaluate in your current slime instance. It gets a bit more tricky if you have multiple instances of slime open, but for the simple case they are independent 14:13:06 -!- jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-bpvnqpybbeqadowv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:37 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 14:14:32 kiuma: with thread-pool? 14:14:32 zbeasnyy_ [~mornfall@cst-prg-132-23.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 14:14:41 -!- mrBliss` [~user@83.101.76.30] has left #lisp 14:14:58 yep 14:15:16 I've checked it out, but am moving to something custom at the moment 14:15:33 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:41 -!- zbeasnyy [~mornfall@cst-prg-32-251.vodafone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:16:04 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 14:17:04 -!- Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 14:17:32 marko-v [~user@unaffiliated/marko-v] has joined #lisp 14:17:46 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 14:19:11 kiuma: your library was fairly simple to use though. it didn't continue somewhere, so I looked at your source and figured that I'd be better of with something specific. I don't need a specific set of threads, but I do need a lot of them and would like to reuse them. So I'm moving to a cached pool of threads. 14:19:20 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:54 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:58 Hello everyone. I am new to lisp. Reading ANSI Common Lisp book. (setf a b c d e f), which is in the book, gives me error when I evaluate it. 14:20:27 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:20:27 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.243.235] has joined #lisp 14:20:53 marko-v: What is the error message? 14:21:01 sec 14:21:17 urandom__ [~user@p548A6D97.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:26 madnificent, one improvement I can do can be to allow the thread number to grow, then add a timeout for the ones exceeding the pool 14:21:47 beach: http://paste.lugons.org/show/o91vmRGybdNWnxV5fqPb/ 14:21:57 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 14:22:36 marko-v: It is supposed to set the variable a to the value of the variable b, set the variable c to teh value of the variable d, etc. But you don't seem to have a variable b. 14:23:00 marko-v: Did you create and initialize the variable b before evaluating that expression? 14:23:12 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 14:23:46 -!- jingtao` [~jingtaozf@li94-153.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:47 sec beach 14:23:52 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:09 tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has joined #lisp 14:26:46 beach: No I didn't. I thought setf initializes and sets a variable if it isn't. 14:27:12 -!- tsanhwa [~user@199.68.198.125] has quit [Client Quit] 14:28:17 Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:28:23 marko-v: This expression sets already-created variables a, c, and e to the values of the already-existing, already initialized variables b, d, and f, respectively. What did you imagine (setf a b) would do? 14:28:49 marko-v: Do you know any other programming language? 14:29:38 marko-v: (setf a b) would be similar to a = b in some other language like C or Java. In those languages b must exist and have a value for a = b to work. The same thing is true for Lisp. 14:30:13 He jumped straight to that in the book without initializing a - f variables 14:30:32 Now I know. Thank you beach. :) 14:30:39 No problem. 14:30:46 That is not the brilliance of setf. 14:31:26 The brilliance of setf is that can set something by essentially getting it. 14:31:35 marko-v: I have read that book, and I am pretty sure he didn't mean to imply that that expression would work without prior creation and initialization of variables b, d, and f. 14:31:51 that you can * 14:31:52 fasta: What are you talking about? 14:32:13 beach: if you do (setf (aref a 3) 9), that works. 14:32:28 You can do that with arbitrarily complex expressions. 14:32:55 In some other languages, you need separate logic for that. 14:33:18 beach: Yes. My mistake. I should do let first. 14:33:20 At least, IMHO, that's one nice feature in CL. 14:34:16 fasta: It is a nice feature, but it doesn't "set something by essentially getting it". 14:34:55 beach: it gets a memory location without calling it a pointer. 14:35:00 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:35:15 fasta: did you read it in the spec? 14:35:16 jdz, memo from nikodemus: thanks for hammering at it! do you have the error output anywhere? 14:35:22 fasta: It does? Can you explain that a bit more please. 14:35:52 jdz: I did a long time ago and today shortly. 14:36:15 fasta: in the spec? 14:36:55 jdz: yes, but the way you say it, you make it sound like I am wrong. 14:37:45 fasta: well, if you read it in the spec there's no way i can make you wrong; if you point me to the exact place in the spec. 14:38:04 fasta: i read new stuff in spec regularly. 14:38:14 fasta: What you said doesn't seem anything like what is really going on, which is why I asked you to explain what you mean a bit more. 14:38:47 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:39:47 Ok, not the spec. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node80.html explains this. 14:39:57 I read something else in the spec. 14:41:16 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:41:22 fasta: well, the first sentence of the second paragraph basically nails it. 14:41:46 jdz: nails what? 14:41:59 jdz: it is consistent with what I said, AFAIK. 14:42:12 fasta: That page explains things pretty well. I am still interested in how you turned that into "set something by essentially getting it". 14:42:52 beach: something=some lisp object at location x, it=the obtained location x. 14:42:59 fasta: and also how it "gets a memory location without calling it a pointer.". 14:43:32 beach: at no point does it use the word 'pointer'. 14:43:32 -!- rme [rme@C7C8C511.47C9A248.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 14:43:45 fasta: having to distinct functions for getting and setting is not anything like "set something by essentially getting it" 14:43:48 s/to/two 14:43:52 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:43:55 fasta: And at no point does it get the memory location either. 14:44:22 beach: in the implementation it must do that. 14:44:32 -!- marko-v [~user@unaffiliated/marko-v] has left #lisp 14:44:39 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.137.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:44:43 It is just hidden from the user. 14:45:03 kiuma: no, it erred on me regardless of that, so I guess I'd be better off building it from scratch so I know what's going on. 14:45:06 fasta: No, setf works nothing like that. 14:45:30 beach: I would say it is unspecified how it works. 14:45:37 beach: but how does it work? 14:45:37 fasta: You would? 14:45:48 dlowe: what is that WITH-TRANSACTION ? 14:45:51 beach: I would, but I am not a CL expert. 14:45:55 fasta: Since it is unspecified, I guess I can't explain it to you. 14:46:00 fe[nl]ix: rucksack 14:46:30 beach: aren't you a professor in this stuff? I would assume you would know then. 14:46:32 serializing connection in rucksack, art thou ? 14:47:06 fasta: You are right. I do know. 14:47:41 fe[nl]ix: cxn-close has to do some stuff with regard to the associated user account 14:48:45 fasta: Consider (lookup-database foo bar) and (setf (lookup-database foo bar) zog) 14:49:03 fasta: lookup-database talks to a database over a socket. 14:49:12 fasta: How does this fit with your model? 14:51:32 rme [~rme@50.43.166.155] has joined #lisp 14:53:22 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:24 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-151-226.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:34 joachifm [~joachim@212.7.195.193] has joined #lisp 14:53:41 HG` [~HG@p579F7F2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:51 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-131-34.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:53:56 fe[nl]ix: btw, have you tried having like 100,000 timers in the multiplexer? 14:54:33 no 14:55:41 Don't you use a priority queue to make that largely irrelevant? 14:55:45 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:56:42 the multiplexer does use a priority queue 14:56:48 -!- zbeasnyy_ [~mornfall@cst-prg-132-23.vodafone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:58:01 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:59:17 Zhivago: ok, so the model blows up. Thanks for the information. 14:59:31 -!- rme [rme@BA30122D.5CC684E6.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 14:59:37 rme_ [~rme@50.43.154.234] has joined #lisp 15:00:09 Zhivago: if lookup-database is a CL function, it could theoretically work, though. 15:01:00 Ok, so it should be this list: aref car svref etc. 15:01:41 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.166.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:01:41 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 15:01:59 So, (setf (ninth(ninth x)) y) doesn't even work? 15:02:53 it does work 15:03:25 ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has joined #lisp 15:03:32 Ok, well, I will just read the spec some time. 15:03:36 but it is the same as (setf (ninth z) y) 15:06:33 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 15:07:34 zbeasnyy [~mornfall@cst-prg-24-7.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 15:07:46 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:08:09 -!- Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [] 15:13:11 centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:33 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-151-226.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:13:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-29.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:13:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@162.61.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:14:51 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:16:35 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.221.66] has joined #lisp 15:18:36 Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 15:21:06 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.221.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:08 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.221.66] has joined #lisp 15:22:03 -!- ehine1 [~ericyoda@69.205.154.161] has quit [] 15:23:00 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.243.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:23:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-29.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:23:16 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:23:39 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.32.59] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 15:23:53 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:25:38 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-90.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:27:10 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-185-103.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:24 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Quit: Computer went to sleep] 15:27:46 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.221.66] has joined #lisp 15:27:55 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.221.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:12 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:29:59 tcr1 [~tcr@cpm191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:32:16 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.102] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:33:00 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 15:35:02 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 15:35:22 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:38 homie` [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-169-200.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:36:32 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 15:36:41 -!- zbeasnyy [~mornfall@cst-prg-24-7.vodafone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:36:52 oconnore [~eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:55 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@cpm191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:38:05 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-158-5.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:40:05 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:40:07 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:41:59 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Quit: Computer went to sleep] 15:42:57 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 15:44:01 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:58 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:46:30 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:36 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0074.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 15:47:44 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-5.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:47 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:51:26 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:28 So, in elephant, I keep getting a no applicable method error for (map-btree a-function bdb-btree-index ...). The bdb-btree-index class is defined as => (defclass bdb-btree-index (btree-index bdb-btree) ...), and the #'map-btree method is defined as (defmethod map-btree (fn (btree btree) ...) ...). btree-index is defined as a subclass of btree. So shouldn't the class precedence go btree -> btree-index -> bdb-btree-index, allowing map-btree t 15:51:42 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 15:52:14 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:44 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:44 chegibari [~chegibari@151.59.15.167] has joined #lisp 15:54:47 tcr1 [~tcr@cpm191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:56:03 -!- chegibari [~chegibari@151.59.15.167] has quit [Client Quit] 15:56:11 Is it possible to get cffi-grovel to expand shell backquotes in cc-flags? 15:56:24 chegibari [~chegibari@151.59.15.167] has joined #lisp 15:56:38 oconnore: you can use the MOP to get that class's class-precedence-list. 15:57:10 Maybe bdb-btree doesn't inherit from btree. 15:58:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:58:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:58:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:59:19 pkhuong: ok, i will look. Thanks. 15:59:27 -!- pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:59:52 -!- homie` [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-169-200.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:00:27 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 16:00:31 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 16:00:31 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 16:00:49 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:35 drdo: no 16:01:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:02:48 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@cpm191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:02:52 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:03:23 -!- chegibari [~chegibari@151.59.15.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:56 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-169-200.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:04:29 -!- kiuma 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[~josesanto@bl16-194-96.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:30:10 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:30:35 centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:32 stoopid threads 16:33:40 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:52 -!- PreciousMetals [~Heart@unaffiliated/colours] has left #lisp 16:34:18 madnificent: Don't be mean :S 16:34:24 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:30 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@178-190-88-152.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:35:41 -!- jdz [~jdz@host212-111-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36:16 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:37:12 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 16:41:19 drdo: you're right, I'm probably making them angry 16:41:52 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:42:06 -!- rme [rme@114D8FBF.ED8853D8.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 16:42:35 pnq [~nick@AC812A93.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:36 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 16:42:45 I somehow need to figure out when a thread I've spawned has finished setting up 16:42:59 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.221.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:06 madnificent: use a semaphore 16:43:33 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.154.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:43:35 nikodemus: well, I actually need to figure out when it has called condition-wait... but condition-wait immediately starts waiting ofc 16:43:54 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-90.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:45:10 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:31 signal a semaphore once you've grabbed the mutex but before condition-wait, and then someone waiting on the semaphore can wait to gain the mutex: at this point the other thread has started condition wait 16:46:12 nikodemus: no, it has given up the mutex, perhaps it's interrupted between giving up the mutex and calling condition-wait 16:46:20 -!- centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:46:56 the only thing I can think of is using a mutex or signaling a condition and then ensuring the lock that condition-wait has released 16:47:36 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:48:18 nikodemus: what is the default common-lisp indentation style? 16:48:24 nikodemus: also, how do I set my default? (: 16:48:57 oh, common-lisp-style-default 16:51:44 nikodemus: but: typo in "modern" style definition. ":inheric" 16:51:54 antifuchs: the defaults are same as in "basic" 16:52:03 crap 16:52:34 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:52:39 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:53:40 bordeaux-threads doesn't include explicit semaphores? only locks? 16:53:57 nikodemus: also, the docstring for lisp-lambda-list-keyword-parameter-alignment looks wrong 16:54:01 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.102] has joined #lisp 16:54:04 (sorry for telling you this after the fact (: 16:54:04 rme [~rme@50.43.148.46] has joined #lisp 16:54:18 antifuchs: that's didier's :) 16:54:22 ah ((: 16:54:40 seems he indented the keywords one space too many so they line up in source but not in *Help* 16:55:07 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 16:55:53 got it, thanks 16:56:01 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:59:03 -!- Quadresce is now known as Qworkescence 16:59:16 are you going to send me a "franz" style? 16:59:42 Maybe I'll send you a Google style .... 16:59:54 MORE STYLES 16:59:58 minion: chant 16:59:59 MORE STYLES 17:00:50 not sure if I can... everybody here indents differently (: 17:01:32 well there could be an AllegroCL IDE style 17:01:54 antifuchs: you can be an agent of tyranny! 17:02:01 hahaha, yeah ((: 17:02:26 yeah - copying the IDE style sounds good. I'll look into how well that spec file I have translates into elisp 17:04:11 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:24 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:05:41 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:06:21 add^_ [~add^_^@h62n2c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:42 -!- loke_ [~elias@bb119-74-212-229.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:07:44 -!- pyrony [~epic@173-126-82-56.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:10:39 npoektop_ [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 17:10:39 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:39 -!- npoektop_ is now known as npoektop 17:11:57 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.225.37.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:13:29 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:16:21 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-dmlpakgzojadmqhk] has joined #lisp 17:18:12 markskilbeck [~chris@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 17:20:16 centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@74-84-107-90.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:30 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:20:56 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 17:21:21 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:24:15 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:40 ehine1 [~ericyoda@69.205.154.161] has joined #lisp 17:27:44 -!- Krystof [~csr21@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:27:54 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-dmlpakgzojadmqhk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:10 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-ccwrwxgqpctqizcy] has joined #lisp 17:28:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:52 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:29:03 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:30:28 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 17:32:37 splittist [~splittist@AMontsouris-553-1-80-180.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:33:50 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:34:42 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:57 splittist2 [~splittist@AMontsouris-553-1-80-180.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:35:23 HG`` [~HG@p5DC05EEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:50 when you play with threads, locks and condition-variables, you will get burnt 17:37:20 -!- splittist [~splittist@AMontsouris-553-1-80-180.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:37:39 madnificent: no shit sherlock 17:38:09 pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has joined #lisp 17:38:41 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7F2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:38:54 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:39:12 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:39:19 jajcloz [~jaj@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:43 bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 17:42:53 Hello, I'm currently trying to output lisp code with allegroserve but all indentation is lost in the process; i.e. leading whitespace/tabstops are not printed. I've tried :princ :prin1 and the *-safe versions, but none works. How do i keep my indentation? (code: http://cxg.de/_f3bcb7.htm (pase.lisp.org isn't working at my end)) 17:43:25 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 17:43:54 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:43:55 bad_alloc: are you outputting HTML with spaces? 17:44:07 use
 ?
17:44:56  egn: yes, there is whitespace in the html. in taht case scrap the question, it's the browser.
17:45:09  thanks for the pointer though :)
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19:03:53  nikodemus: hi! I've got a backtrace with 48 items now! much better than the 18 from yesterday.
19:03:59  hold on, I'll paste.
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19:05:58  nikodemus: http://pastebin.com/HU989sfh
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19:16:19  ehu: can you paste the source of ARANEIDA:HANDLE-REQUEST-RESPONSE (LISPPASTE::DISPLAY-PASTE-HANDLER T T)?
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19:20:45  is there a function which works as APPEND, but remove duplicates ?
19:20:48  found it
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19:21:22  ehu: unless i'm mistaken, in (member ann (paste-annotations paste) :key #'paste-number :test #'=) ANN is occasionally nil
19:21:22  nikodemus: I found the source of the problem, I guess.
19:21:29  yup.
19:21:33  found that too.
19:21:36  thanks!
19:21:52 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp
19:21:53  i still wonder why the debugger does that, though
19:22:01  but what about the problem with the debugger?
19:22:05  same thought.
19:22:11  galdor: (lambda (x y) (remove-duplicates (append x y)))
19:22:25  ah, didn't know remove-duplicates
19:22:26  thank you
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19:23:19  nikodemus: restarting the bots. this should really resolve some of the instability as of recently.
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19:23:49  ehu: (defun foo (x list) (member x list :key #'car :test #'=)) and (foo nil '((1)))
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19:23:57  on that sbcl, does the same error happen?
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19:26:21  nikodemus: yup.
19:26:42  invalid rest list and all?
19:28:12  yes. exactly the same.
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19:32:18  ok, good
19:32:27  i'll find an x86 host and try to reproduce
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19:34:16  nikodemus: do you have cl-net?
19:34:37 *ehu* supposes so
19:35:22  that's the exact host with this issue.
19:36:13  of course! silly me
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19:37:27  I don't think you can cd to the directory containing the sbcl binary, but I could copy that to /tmp for you.
19:38:02  but maybe you can.
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19:39:00  yup world readable /home/lisppaste and the sbcl_1048_test below it.
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19:41:07  ok. i see the same on x86/darwin on current devhead
19:41:14  which makes this easier
19:41:50  ok. thanks for looking at it!
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20:38:32  Because you guys are my peeps, you're the first to know: the first Code Quarterly articles are up at http://www.codequarterly.com. Interviews with Hal Abelson and Rich Hickey.
20:39:20  congrats
20:39:23  \o/
20:39:58  but is it peer reviewed and what's the IR?
20:40:08  IR?
20:40:13  intended readership?
20:40:13  impact factor ;p
20:40:17  Ah.
20:40:22  not to worry, i kid
20:40:28 *Landr* has an exam about that sort of thing in the morning
20:40:49  "Hackademic" not "Academic" ;-)
20:40:56  gigamonkey: verynice
20:41:18  hi
20:41:46  gigamonkey: cool!
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20:54:46  If you're looking at the new CQ site, please let me know if you see anything horribly off as I haven't announced it to the larger world yet.
20:55:31  so what is it running on? :>
20:55:47  Hunchentoot behind Apache.
20:57:10  good catches for your first interview subjects
20:57:26  also this is more a typographic issue than software issue, but could you make the articles more visibly divided between interviewer and interviewee? more space between the paragraphs, italics or bold for the questions, something along those lines.
20:58:59  Landr: Possibly. I've played with various designs.
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21:02:40  >And I said, Im a new graduate student. Im looking for a job. Whats a good place to go work? And he said, Well, why dont you go over to the Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. They do good things. So I wandered around there for a little bit and talked to people, and thats pretty much how I got started.
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21:03:07  sigh :( the days of anarchy are gone
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21:17:31  gigamonkey: Hooray! Been looking forward to this for quite a while. :)
21:18:04  redline6561-work: you and me both!
21:18:16  Now to get the next articles up.
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21:27:20  There are sayings on getting more eyes on a problem; but I think there's a nasty corollary - if you have only a few people with domain knowledge of the problem, and they are at odds with people who do not, bringing in extra people who do not is a sort of knowledge dilution.
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21:41:03  as a group size increases linear, the amount of communication increases exponentially
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21:42:31  gigamonkey: the PDF from Apress link goes to a Sorry! page at apress
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21:43:32  Harag: on which site?
21:43:58  http://www.codersatwork.com/guy-steele.html
21:44:24  Ah. Thanks.
21:44:32  I fixed it on the main page but forgot about those.
21:45:32 catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-yxbqkbkabqjsfihb] has joined #lisp
21:45:47  Problem with a (generated) static site.
21:46:01 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp
21:46:05  generated static? o.O
21:47:04  I.e. I generated it once and now serve it statically.
21:47:08 -!- pjb_ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: from my iPad]
21:47:30  But when I fixed the link on the main page I just fixed it in the generated file.
21:47:37  Patching the binary.
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21:50:07  gigamonkey: if you fix that in a really good way and always do that, then you may be able to interview yourself about it :)
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21:52:55  Sadly I just used some perl to patch the static files again since the code I used to use to serve the site dynamically has bit-rotted. :-(
21:53:04  heresy!
21:53:21  lol
21:54:07  well perl or not its fixed
21:54:32  and at the end of the day, as long as the engine is running, it doesn't matter how ugly the patch/hack was!
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21:55:42 *Landr* mainly tells himself that to get over the constant depressing end-of-day realizations that what in the morning began as a bright-spirited undertaking of being a pure well structured flawless running machine turned out to be an ugly unwieldy three-eyed five-footed six-nosed monster that stutters... but hey, at least i got the shiny button to do what i want when i click it
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21:56:59  hello everyone
21:57:04  ello
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22:41:09  So what's the best way to generate RSS/Atom in CL?
22:41:58  Good morning everyone!
22:42:49  Morning.
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22:53:00  gigamonkey: html-template (-:
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22:53:28  Okay. So I guess I'm rolling my own.
22:53:43  Which I've done before--just need to dust off the bits.
22:53:49  (not kidding actually. if you have somewhat-static structure, just filling in an existing atom template is very easy to do, I think)
22:54:06  Yeah. So I can use my own FOO stuff for that.
22:54:15 -!- penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5-dev]
22:54:18  all the lhtml/lxml templating stuff requires you to pollute your lisp with weird xml structure (:
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22:59:26  Woot. After averaging around 200-300 hits a day on codequarterly.com (probably all crawlers), I've got 14,000 today since I put up those articles.
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23:00:09  gigamonkey: do you use google analytics? (:
23:00:13  (if not, you should!)
23:00:36  antifuchs: no doubt.
23:00:46  run, don't walk (:
23:01:08 -!- mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:01:34  You mean wc -l doesn't cut it any more?
23:01:49  it has stopped cutting it sometime in the early 2000s (-:
23:02:08  anyway, ga gives you nice visitor stats + visits, too
23:02:25  (and they might do some particularly nasty things to determine person identity, too)
23:03:08 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
23:04:31 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp
23:04:31  there's also a startup that does real-time analytics
23:05:11  yeah, there are a couple. but all their numbers differ, and it seems the world has standardized on GA for now at least (:
23:06:17  Is there any reason I can't put their little snip of JS code into a .js file rather than inlinining it in all my pages?
23:07:41 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-229-186.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp
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23:09:50  does there exist a comet server for common lisp?
23:10:45 <|3b|> don't tpd2 and symbolicweb do that sort of thing?
23:11:27 *|3b|* seems to remember them including a bit more non-server stuff than i wanted last i looked at them though
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23:14:50 redline6561-work [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp
23:14:52  thanks
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23:17:03  antifuchs: Done. Hooked into the GA skynet.
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23:19:25  I don't think tpd2 has anything for comet, or at least the readme doesn't mention it
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23:23:21  catphive: tpd2 was designed for comet. So was symbolicweb.
23:24:08  catphive: I've had better luck using a websocket server paired with hunchentoot, but mongrel2 hasa been recommended to me recently.
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23:39:43  Wow, the Common Lisp HyperSpec page for SEARCH seems to have been written hastily.
23:40:05  It doesn't say that the sequences have to be proper, and it mentions no exceptional situations.
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23:41:30  implementation-open
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23:42:45 <|3b|> clhs 17.1.1
23:42:45  http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/17_aa.htm
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23:43:25 *|3b|* thought there was something more explicit about which had to be proper though
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23:44:52  |3b|: Other sequence entries explicitly mention "proper sequence" and most of them say "should be prepared to signal an error if ... is not a proper sequence"
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23:45:22  |3b|: The absence of the latter implicitly means "the behavior is undefined if ... is not a sequence".
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