00:00:13 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:00:18 glidesurfer: How does "tok" work? 00:00:48 glidesurfer: What is the problem with your code? What did you expect it to do? What happened instead? 00:02:44 Xach: I expected that when-clause to ignore a "word"... oh, I think I know... 00:02:48 word is string 00:02:56 Well, if word is a string, (equal word #\Space) will always be nil oh you saw that. 00:02:58 I have to use string= 00:03:34 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:24 Thanks anyway, sometimes it's enough to rethink the code :o) 00:04:56 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:36 Could you use split-sequence or something? 00:06:11 -!- pnq [~nick@172.162.224.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:06:50 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:07:10 This is tok: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122442#1 00:07:29 lifeng [~lifeng@bb219-74-171-2.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 00:07:34 ugh. 00:07:46 ? 00:08:57 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb219-74-171-2.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:10:51 Xach: what's so "ugh" about it? 00:12:45 glidesurfer: Extremely wasteful. 00:13:18 Particularly recursing with copies of the remainder of the string to be processed. 00:13:46 Also somewhat of a waste of effort, given the easy availability of split-sequence. 00:14:54 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 00:15:00 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:16:35 dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:22 -!- glidesurfer [~glidesurf@2002:5796:72be:0:230:5ff:fe37:7a8d] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:21:44 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:22:18 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: vervic] 00:23:29 wislin [~user@118.122.165.4] has joined #lisp 00:24:55 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BCD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:27:53 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-146-128.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:27 ASau [~user@95-27-146-128.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 00:28:28 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 00:29:44 So what do you think about this: Docstring should not duplicate Common Lisp HyperSpec entries because the latter are meant for the implementers of CL system. Thus, the docstring should reflect the actual implementation, because it is meant for the programmer. But it would be good to tell the programmer that specified behavior might not be portable so that the programmer can decide whether to take advantage of implementation-specific 00:29:45 decisions or not. 00:31:33 Where is the portion of the spec that discuss why clisp and sbcl have differing return values for following: (make-pathname :type "bmp") 00:31:34 glidesurfer [~glidesurf@2002:5796:77ae:0:230:5ff:fe37:7a8d] has joined #lisp 00:33:09 beach: BTW I read your paper in the ELS proceedings last night. I quite enjoyed it! 00:33:42 mon_key: Thanks! 00:33:42 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@96.31.242.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:52 -!- val056 [irc2gowebc@ppp-166-146.98-62.inwind.it] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 00:36:25 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:36:36 -!- glidesurfer [~glidesurf@2002:5796:77ae:0:230:5ff:fe37:7a8d] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 00:36:41 beach: It held my attention all the way through from beginning to end. I was engaged man! 00:38:11 mon_key: Hey, that's great! 00:43:58 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7A3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:54 -!- Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 00:50:50 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:51:25 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.155.222] has joined #lisp 00:52:40 centipedefarmer [~nothingHa@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:45 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-223-253.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:49 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-223-253.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:59 Also what is the rationale for SBCL's return value for this: (namestring (make-pathname :type "bmp")) 00:53:11 -!- galaxy_999 [~galaxy_99@pool-71-101-53-214.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 00:55:51 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-kakxvfdbalpwctpt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:58:03 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.219] has joined #lisp 01:02:20 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 01:02:46 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 01:06:49 kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:11 is there a way to get a list of all packages currently defined? 01:09:07 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-169.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:09:39 redline6561-work [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:54 kruhft: list-all-packages 01:10:35 great...thanks 01:11:37 Also how is only specifying the type somehow less squishy than: (namestring (make-pathname :name nil :type nil :version nil)) 01:11:37 01:17:58 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-223-253.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:19:38 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:27:24 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:40 -!- jfleming [~jfleming@eth59-167-133-99.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:30:41 -!- Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:30:54 jfleming [~jfleming@ATL146140-1.gw.connect.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:30:55 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:33:10 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:35:10 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@c-76-27-203-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:36:55 -!- jfleming [~jfleming@ATL146140-1.gw.connect.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:37:09 jfleming [~jfleming@eth59-167-133-99.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:54 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.216.224] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:46:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:53:31 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 01:54:18 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:58:26 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:59:23 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.121.74] has joined #lisp 01:59:38 if symbol is both not boundp and fboundp then what is it? 02:03:48 It's only symbol, not variable. 02:04:11 i'm writing a function over the symbols of a package and i'm finding symbols that return nil for both boundp and fboundp 02:04:36 -!- wislin [~user@118.122.165.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:51 wislin [~user@118.122.165.4] has joined #lisp 02:05:22 *keywords* 02:05:28 oops...wrong window :) 02:07:33 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.219] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 02:07:44 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.219] has joined #lisp 02:11:24 -!- _pw_`` [~user@125.34.52.49] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:11:24 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:50 pnq [~nick@AC8135F2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:11:52 _pw_ [~user@125.34.52.49] has joined #lisp 02:12:22 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:13:22 fusss [~chatzilla@lushevents.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:36 -!- symbol___ [~symbol___@c-98-246-145-10.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:06 just a pointless style question. I have class 'WIDGET' that I want to make sure a whole heirarchy of classes inherit from. Naturally, I wrote DEFWIDGET, modeled after DEFCLASS. Now, to make sure they really do DO inherit from WIDGET .. 02:16:13 is it more idiomatic to say (defmacro defwidget (name parents &body body) `(defclass ,name (,@parents widget) ..) ..) OR (defclass defwidget .. `(progn (every (lambda(x)(subtypep x 'widget ..))) 02:17:05 in fact, my widget class doesn't even need multiple-inheritance, but I'm leaving it in to add traits/decorations later 02:17:46 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: vervic] 02:18:30 I ask because I'm feeling iffy about silently correcting code (implicit parent), just as I feel iffy about explicitly erring on something that can be corrected. 02:19:40 -!- statonjr_ [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr_] 02:20:07 actually, that EVERY is inside an assert .. so it IS naggy 02:21:05 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:23:21 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 02:30:08 *fusss* paints it black .. the bike-shed that is 02:30:21 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 02:31:27 *pinterface* prefers rainbow so everybody gets a little of what they want and a lot of what they don't. 02:34:09 you know, you can spend a whole day with 2 macros. or just spend 2 hours typing in all the repetitive defclass forms by hand 02:34:54 fusss: and then 2 days updating them all by hand later. I see them partly as an investment in maintenance costs. 02:35:07 s/them/macros/ 02:35:09 -!- redline6561-work [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:21 jfleming: same here, to be frank 02:35:39 but I found a pattern of time wasters that I end up doing often: 02:35:48 redline6561-work [~redline65@cei-gla-cpk2.coxinc.com] has joined #lisp 02:35:51 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:35:55 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-223-253.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:25 1) anytime you have (setf (gethash ',name *foo-ers*) ,val) you're wasting time. macros please persistent side-effects are a hint you're inventing a parallel language 02:36:48 2) doubly so if ,val is actually (lambda () ..) 02:37:37 3) If you see (lambda (&rest args) ..) stored in hashtables, you end up quoting that lambda, for debugging purposes, to see it uncompiled. Then break tens of funcalls and APPLies across the board 02:38:10 (apply #'make-instance args) is FAR more supplier to (apply (gethash 'fun *magic #'identity) args) 02:38:24 s/supplier/superior/ 02:38:32 gko [~gko@42-72-227-166.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:35 redline6_ [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:34 I used to build lists by hand, then graduated to composing closures .. now I see the light, use CLOS! 02:40:10 Skipped structures, eh? 02:40:49 pinterface: I skipped the bastards since it's nearly impossible to change your mind about them without manual makunbound 02:41:21 -!- redline6561-work [~redline65@cei-gla-cpk2.coxinc.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:41:24 the hardest refactoring to makes on a running Lisp are changing defstructs to defclass, and changing metaclasses 02:41:35 well .. same thing I guess 02:43:56 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:52 ha 02:47:47 I kinda went straight to CLOS, skipping structs and with only a basic handle on closures, which I see largely as a poor man's CLOS. 02:48:18 Then I started working through the swank sources, and now I have to learn about structures anyway :/ 02:49:35 closures aren't poor man's clos... but can be used to implement one 02:49:55 jfleming: they're very tempting (defstruct foo id name email dob) <-- look make, not defclass keywords bloat 02:50:37 fusss: except possible symbol pollution? 02:50:39 p_l|backup: I may still be tainted by On Lisp :) 02:51:21 you read onlisp? 02:51:33 I read ~5 chapters 02:52:32 fusss: there's a parallel with regular functions, in deciding between the terseness of required/optional arguments and the clarity of keywords. Me being a klutz, I lean to the latter. 02:53:39 I've read most, if not all, of it. Wasn't impressed with his stance of "you don't need CLOS because you can do it all with closures! See? Everything you need is there in closures!" but I'm assuming it had something to do with the performance of mind-90s hardware. 02:53:54 OK if someone hold my hand for a second, http://letoverlambda.com/lol-orig.lisp under ;;chapter 3 (defmacro defmacro! ... , the way i'm parsing this mentally, by the time defmacro/g! is being evaluated, and thus the innermost backquoted let, ,@gs and ,@os won't be in scope because we've already evaluated the outermost let and are now evaluating the form that this let evaluated too. 02:54:00 But clearly it works. 02:56:02 The ,@gs is evaluated at macroexpansion time, in the let, yes? 02:56:54 ThatHippie [~Talkky@client-66-116-13-202.consolidated.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:01 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:30 When it "bounces" into the evaluation of the inner defmacro seemingly 02:58:04 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 02:58:45 I don't understand what you mean, sorry. 02:59:20 The ,@gs is itself in a comma'd form in a backquote, so it's "double unquoted". 02:59:59 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 03:02:04 oh wait does it work that way... 03:02:06 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 03:02:18 -!- xristos is now known as Guest27484 03:02:51 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 03:02:57 gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:03:06 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:03:11 OK i think this is just a matter of needing to learn new ways of programming when I'm not so tired... 03:03:26 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:03:26 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:03:33 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 03:04:09 derekv: `,`,(+ 4 5) -> 9, yep 03:04:21 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:29 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@lushevents.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:04:51 Bike, yea I just verified also. its like one of those illusions, you can't see the face, then suddenly you see it and you can't see how you didn't see it. 03:05:02 Well, good that you got it. 03:06:32 -!- strout [~strout@ip-64-255-129-222.ideaone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:08:15 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:08:33 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 03:08:41 Oh I see what I was thinking... for some reason i had it in my metal parser that `(`(,(something))) was equivlent to '(something) 03:08:54 brain error 03:10:52 -!- erg [~erg@li32-38.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:10:57 erg [~erg@li32-38.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:11:56 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:39 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 03:13:49 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:13:53 Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:19 armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has joined #lisp 03:18:55 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:19:59 yep totally see where i was confused, was trying to associate the nested backquote 'levels' with the nested defmacro 'levels' like they were linked in some way, but the backquoting all gets done immediately 03:20:16 -!- churib [~churib@95.156.194.105] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:20:38 thank you for taking the time bike 03:21:58 tippenein [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:19 churib [~churib@95.156.194.105] has joined #lisp 03:23:43 mm. 03:26:47 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:27:04 anyone know about acl5/eli directory that I need to alter to run lisp within emacs? I have clisp but.. no directory 03:29:38 i can't really make sense of your question, but in any case, i suggest you to use Slime instead of ELI 03:30:40 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.219] has joined #lisp 03:31:29 -!- redline6_ [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:32:09 that's what I tried first, but it wouldn't evaluate the functions I loaded. 03:33:09 "you are doing it wrong" 03:33:25 or, "you tried it wrong" 03:34:30 tippenein: what did you do, what did you get, what did you expect? 03:35:20 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:35:20 wizardcloud_Adam [~admin@119.165.21.85] has joined #lisp 03:35:35 hello, boys 03:35:53 i want to ask a question 03:36:02 A noble aspiration. 03:36:34 when i compile the cells-gtk, it said the INTERN("FOREIGN-LIBRARY"): # is locked 03:36:35 If you continue (by typing 'continue'): Ignore the lock and proceed 03:36:35 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:37:25 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:53 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 03:38:26 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:10 it means that cells-gtk is broken 03:39:42 Keep working at it -- eventually you'll be able to ask a question. 03:39:55 it assumed that it's a good idea to use unexported symbols and got beaten by it 03:40:00 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:40:23 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 03:41:16 i don't know, i follow the instruction given by the cells 03:41:29 I thought you wanted to ask a question. 03:41:32 redline6561-work [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:43 yes, a question 03:42:05 wizardcloud_Adam: are you sure that you use the latest version of cells-gtk? 03:42:21 and are you sure that you're using it with a compatible implementation 03:42:39 cells-gtk-2006-06-30 with CLisp on my winxp 03:43:59 I know only a little about lisp, i heard that cells is a gtk GUI bind to lisp 03:44:41 no, it's not, or rather, it's not the only one and certainly not the one preferred by others 03:45:10 which do you prefer, please? 03:45:12 -!- wislin [~user@118.122.165.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:45:41 wizardcloud_Adam: i would try http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-gtk2/ first, and on Clozure CL, not on clisp 03:45:50 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 03:46:12 cl-gtk2 updated frequently? 03:46:36 i have no idea 03:47:00 wizardcloud_Adam: and use quicklisp to install it 03:47:19 OK, thanks. Maybe i should have a try. I am fresh in lisp, but experience in c# 03:47:43 have you read already Practical Common Lisp? 03:48:11 read some charpters 03:49:16 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.219] has joined #lisp 03:49:24 fusss [~chatzilla@lushevents.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:49 hi, what's the FORMAT control string incantation for skipping over null values? 03:49:59 ~@[~a~] 03:50:28 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 03:51:41 stassats: excellent, thank you 03:52:10 stassats, are you a skilled lisper? 03:52:19 wizardcloud_Adam: yes 03:52:47 cool 03:53:05 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 03:53:36 -!- wizardcloud_Adam [~admin@119.165.21.85] has quit [Quit: ] 03:59:30 I'm playing with RoR for the first time - what do you think, from a lisp standpoint, on having a framework built of tools that spit out lots of source files? Would a lispish attempt at an equivalent do this or attempt to consolidate this somehow? (Be happy if someone could chime in with Lisp on Lines experience if relevant) 04:01:18 Modius: I'm doing _just_ that right now; learning from RoR & Django. Intend NOT to spit out files 04:01:37 fusss: you using LoL or doing your own? 04:01:47 I heavily use Xach's quickproject tool, but ~1dir ~5 files is the max I can tolerate 04:02:08 Modius: I'm building on Restas & Submarine + Postmodern 04:03:00 -!- tippenein [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110422045944]] 04:04:26 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.121.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:04:44 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.121.74] has joined #lisp 04:07:24 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:10:41 -!- armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:13:05 -!- centipedefarmer [~nothingHa@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:16:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-217-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:17:41 qizwiz [~user@ppp-70-245-65-87.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:58 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:00 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:21:21 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 04:23:27 armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has joined #lisp 04:27:02 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:32 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.4.19] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:32:21 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:00 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:34:11 qizwiz` [~user@ppp-70-245-65-87.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:26 -!- qizwiz [~user@ppp-70-245-65-87.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:38:47 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:26 -!- sabalabas [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:42:16 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:42:17 Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:28 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:42:50 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:43:52 sacho [~sacho@46.10.4.19] has joined #lisp 04:44:19 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:52 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has joined #lisp 04:45:58 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has quit [Client Quit] 04:46:31 Hm, it seems to me like cl-who:with-html-output expands in a way that it only returns the last value generated. Is this expected? If I put a with-html-output in a Hunchentoot handler, I end up with pages only containing "". 04:46:42 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has joined #lisp 04:46:51 -!- Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:47:07 This has had me confused for a while. I could probably wrap it in some with-output-to-string or something, but I'm wondering how it's really meant to be used. 04:47:59 gaidal: I got it working a while ago by punting lots of stuff to *stdout* via (format t ...), which led to all sorts of fun when I recently migrated some of that stuff to html-template. 04:48:38 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-149-91.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:50 jfleming: Got which part working? 04:49:46 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49:47 gaidal: with-html-output isn't supposed to return anything 04:50:08 if you want to get a string you need to use with-html-output-to-string 04:50:29 Oh. Right. 04:50:58 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:51:26 you can use with-html-output inside with-html-output-to-string from other functions 04:51:34 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:26 Oh, I have to experiment with that. 04:52:59 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:53:03 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 04:54:56 e.g. (with-html-output-to-string (*standard-output*) (:html (construct-some-body))) and (defun construct-some-body () (with-html-output (*standard-output*) (:body "Hello"))) 04:55:03 I hate when things work perfectly but my mind is expecting something different I can't even put my finger on. :P 04:55:40 And the indentation still works? 04:55:46 i doubt it 04:56:01 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:16 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has joined #lisp 04:57:34 psilord [~psilord@adsl-76-204-103-109.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:38 -!- psilord [~psilord@adsl-76-204-103-109.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 05:00:41 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:00:42 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:01:44 dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:05 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@211.108.125.70] has joined #lisp 05:02:22 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:03:59 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:07:01 z777 [~user@183.62.131.178] has joined #lisp 05:08:00 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:08:12 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:21 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 05:08:27 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.219] has joined #lisp 05:09:19 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:09:58 -!- museun [~what@c-98-252-140-73.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:13:26 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:40 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:20:12 -!- z777 [~user@183.62.131.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23:44 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.194.215] has joined #lisp 05:24:46 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-149-91.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:24:47 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 05:29:31 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:29:50 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 05:30:19 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 05:32:33 ltriant_ [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:33:39 tcr1 [~tcr@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:33:47 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:39:29 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:40:06 -!- ltriant_ [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has left #lisp 05:45:31 -!- ThatHippie [~Talkky@client-66-116-13-202.consolidated.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:46:20 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 05:51:39 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-217-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:57:11 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:02:11 splittist [~splittist@52-39.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:04:34 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:09:18 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:09:44 morning 06:10:08 dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:41 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:11:23 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:11:58 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 06:14:53 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-33-254.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 06:14:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-33-254.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:14:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:15:05 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:15:05 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:15:05 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:15:56 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:16:32 spradnyesh [~pradyus@119.82.110.82] has joined #lisp 06:19:56 topeak [~topeak@123.114.126.227] has joined #lisp 06:20:55 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:22:25 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 06:23:38 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:23:54 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 06:29:00 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@119.82.110.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:31:47 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-77-166.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:35:12 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.215] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:35:18 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.215] has joined #lisp 06:38:25 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7B9D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:41:47 anyone know if there is an option to emit unescaped strings in cl-who? 06:41:50 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8135F2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: sleep] 06:42:40 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yxrhefikxthihhfe] has joined #lisp 06:43:01 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:44:36 helllo lispers 06:45:19 *hello, (the triple lll is my laptop usb fault :) ) 06:46:32 Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 06:46:43 I need to build a double buffered stream, should I start from trivial-gray-streams ? 06:48:05 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:48:36 is there any documentation around about gray-streams/trivial-gray-streams ? 06:48:57 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:49:15 -!- ebzzry_ [~rmm@208.72.159.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:49:41 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:49:45 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 06:50:00 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:05 -!- TDT` [~user@74.115.254.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:52:22 kiuma: see http://www.nhplace.com/kent/CL/Issues/stream-definition-by-user.html 06:52:26 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-77-166.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 06:52:31 thanks 06:53:50 just a question: why the pproposal did not pass ? 06:54:00 -!- gko [~gko@42-72-227-166.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:54:03 <_6502_> is there a way to silence an unused variable warning? if I use (declare (ignore x)) then i get a warning if the variable is used :-/ 06:54:55 Use ignorable instead? 06:55:11 ebzzry [~rmm@208.72.159.209] has joined #lisp 06:55:16 <_6502_> oh.. ok; i didn't know about ignorable... 06:55:33 kiuma: long live the de facto! :-) 06:55:37 It's in the same place in CLHS as IGNORE. 06:55:39 Yeah, it's useful for macros. 06:56:57 I need to create a chunking & gziping stream :). let's hope ... :) 06:57:21 all to put in an event driven program 06:57:25 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441148.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:58:33 kiuma: salza:gzip-stream doesn't get you there because of the chunking? 06:59:01 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:04 splittist, correct, but I'll use salza2 anyway of course 07:00:08 gko [~gko@42-72-227-166.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:41 I also need to control the chunk size 07:00:45 <_6502_> what does it mean "chunking" ? 07:00:47 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-77-166.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:02:03 _6502_, I'm writing my own http server, chunking refers to http/1.1 chunking. 07:02:33 I'll try to support also request pipelining and persistent connections 07:03:07 <_6502_> oh... ok; i thought about the general concept of working with an output buffer, but for that just composition would probably suffice 07:03:09 (I don't know if I'll manage a response caching system) 07:04:59 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:06:35 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:08:26 <_6502_> i suppose it's considered very bad practice to do something like (defun :foo (x) (* x 2)) ... 07:10:01 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:11:02 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 07:12:10 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-251-166.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:12:14 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:13:15 I'm not a lisp expert, but I guess so. I'd expect :foo to be a keyword 07:13:28 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-49-103.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:14:46 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:38 It would still be a keyword, I think. And as far as I can see it's legal. 07:16:40 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-45-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:16:40 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:20:29 -!- markskilbeck [~chris@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:22:05 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 07:22:10 It'd be in the keyword package: (keyword:foo x) 07:24:13 hba [~hba@189.130.23.205] has joined #lisp 07:26:06 I can see a reason to, say, (defstruct (:foo (:type list) :named) x y) to automatically set up lots of things for creating and accessing lists of the form (:foo x y), but I'm not sure I can see why you'd want a :foo function. Perhaps there's a great reason, though... 07:28:26 antoszka: the problem is that I would like to have a function in the keyword package too. (keyword:foo 1 2 3). 07:28:43 If everybody does that, chaos ensure, and we cannot use libraries anymore. 07:29:19 Yeah, obviously, I'm not proposing this would be sensible. 07:29:19 I'm sure splittist would like to have his own keyword:foo function too... 07:29:37 It's true! And mine's bestest! 07:29:37 (that said, nothing prevents to do it). 07:29:53 No, mine would be betterest! 07:30:03 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:30:05 But beware next time you go at ELS... 07:31:00 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 07:32:08 antoszka: we can work this out. Why don't you preface your foo by some unique string, and I'll do the same. We could separate the prefix from the foo by some punctuation character. Then we'd want some way that you could just use foo to refer to yours, and the same for me. We could call this system 'parcels', and have a 'defparcel' macro... (: 07:32:19 :) 07:32:27 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:32:32 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.215] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:33:17 antoszka: you can define your own keyword package: (defpackage "ANTOSZKA.KEYWORDS" (:use :cl) (:export "FOO")) and (defun antoszka.keywords:foo () ...) 07:33:18 But please take some good punctuation character, like \ 07:33:51 dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:12 flip214: : would be better, like in antoszka.keywords:foo 07:35:27 but that's already used! there are so many lisp programs already using that, this will never fly! 07:35:38 But hooray for unicode .... just everyone take one:  07:36:23 But please reserve one for me, perhaps this one:  ... then my parcels are better than yours, by one dot! 07:36:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-154-180.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:38:20 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.126.227] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:40:18 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.121.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:44:58 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441148.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 07:45:30 lusory [~bart@bb119-74-208-59.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 07:49:34 promus [~quickstac@cpe-67-243-40-160.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:50:04 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-251-166.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 07:50:13 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 07:52:11 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:53:29 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.117.207] has joined #lisp 07:53:54 does read-sequence internallly calls read-byte ? 07:53:59 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has joined #lisp 07:55:02 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:55:45 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has joined #lisp 07:56:33 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has quit [Client Quit] 07:56:52 kiuma: implementation dependant. 07:57:05 mmm, ok 07:57:10 One would expect read-sequence is implemented more efficiently than looping on read-byte... 07:57:30 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:58:00 may I override read-byte for my stream implementation ? 08:00:41 -!- xpf [~xpf@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:10:27 -!- nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:13:46 xpf [~xpf@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 08:14:24 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:14:24 wizardcloud_Adam [~admin@119.165.21.85] has joined #lisp 08:14:50 Joreji [~thomas@90-240.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:16:06 nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:16:35 That's purely implementation dependent whether you can do it, and whether it will have any effect at all. 08:17:43 kiuma: if you have your own streams, you should probably implement them with gray streams, and there are a couple of hook methods that you should implement so that all the other stream lisp functions can deal with your subclasses of gray streams. 08:18:00 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@211.108.125.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:15 ok pjb` I'll do that! 08:18:53 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:20:36 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 08:20:37 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24:05 can anybody tell me where my sample is wrong, please ? http://paste.lisp.org/display/122445 08:24:52 why do you think that it's wrong? 08:25:07 file is 0 length 08:25:25 and callback seems not to be called 08:29:32 (i could avoid subseq unsing :end keyword in write-squesnce) 08:30:16 I could use compress-data too, but why doesn't my sample work ? 08:31:49 because you didn't call salza2:finish-compression? 08:32:44 or why don't you just use with-compressor? 08:33:18 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 08:33:53 ah ok 08:34:04 and why don't you use make-stream-output-callback to create a callback 08:34:09 have you read the documentation at all? 08:34:24 yes not all, my fault 08:37:54 I have to look at the code to see if finish-compression is compatible with my need (that means if it is or not a blocking function) 08:38:22 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:42:31 who maintance the libs on quicklisp? 08:44:57 wizardcloud_Adam: create an issue on github? 08:45:21 wizardcloud_Adam: maintainers 08:45:55 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 08:46:00 the quicklisp download the latest libs from github? 08:46:38 no, it downloads them from a server 08:47:03 What's your issue? Do you have a problem with a library, do you want some newer one? 08:47:32 oh, yes, i want to download cl-gtk2 with it 08:48:19 and, what's stopping you? 08:48:25 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:48:29 (ql:quickload :cl-gtk2-gtk) works for me 08:49:32 yes, but, i am trying installing the quicklisp 08:52:47 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756a74.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:01 what do you call? what error do you get? 08:56:24 what means ql:system-apropos 08:58:10 well, reading http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ I see "To find out what's available in Quicklisp, use: (ql:system-apropos substring)" 08:58:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-240.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:00:07 oh, i found. And then use ql:quickload to install the libs? 09:02:34 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@lushevents.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:06 that page has all the answer to your questions 09:03:13 s/answer/answers/ 09:05:07 yes, thanks 09:05:07 HET2 [~diman@2.25.12.74] has joined #lisp 09:07:42 -!- hba [~hba@189.130.23.205] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:08:18 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:09:11 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:10:20 lfuser-393 [~lfuser-39@117.200.78.215] has joined #lisp 09:10:28 hi LL 09:10:31 HI ALL 09:10:39 lets discuss some LISP stuff guys .......... 09:10:46 Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has joined #lisp 09:10:49 no 09:11:16 why no ? 09:11:31 then why you are ? 09:11:33 here 09:13:42 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:14:36 stassats, i typed (ql:quickload "cl-gtk2-gtk"), but it errors "cannot open libglib-2.0-0.dll" 09:14:52 you need gtk 09:14:55 i download the dll file, but where i put it? 09:15:04 sorry, i don't know 09:15:12 Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:23 Somewhere in your %PATH% 09:15:42 aren't there something like automatic installers for gtk and friends? 09:15:48 I installed GIMP, it installed a GTK runtime on windows 09:17:11 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 09:17:44 Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:17:55 -!- lfuser-393 [~lfuser-39@117.200.78.215] has quit [Quit: lfuser-393] 09:18:50 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Quit: bbl] 09:19:25 Axioplase [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 09:25:21 Joreji_ [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:26:12 iolib + salza2 is getting a nightmare 09:27:10 sing it a lullaby 09:27:27 it doesn't work :( 09:27:39 OK, stassats, i got that, i add the GIMP's bin to the PATH, and change the name of libglib-win32-2.0-0.dll to libglib-2.0-0.dll 09:32:49 where's that lfuser gone? 09:33:12 flip214: to write a blogpost on how #lisp is unfriendly, i reckon 09:33:54 kiuma: what's the trouble? 09:35:18 the problem is that merge-bits and merge-octets have a loop inside that will block other streaming requests 09:36:42 anyway I've just noticed that if I chunk my message in say 64kb chuncks and call compress-data while the original stream is not consumed, this might work 09:37:16 thought the result should be bigger then compressing the whole stream 09:38:58 in practice saza2:compress-octet-vector works well with a multi-thread http server but not with an event based one 09:39:13 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:40:29 <_6502_> is there a standard function that returns the cons cell instead of the car when searching a property list? 09:40:41 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.155.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:40:54 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:40:55 Xach, chunking the original stream into chunks of 64kb and then calling compress-data, as said, could do the trick 09:40:57 _6502_: find :key #'car? 09:41:07 kiuma: as opposed to what? how else would you use it? 09:41:23 _6502_: MEMBER 09:42:10 <_6502_> flip214/xach: a property list has keywords only in even positions (counting from 0), find/member would not be correct 09:42:10 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.76] has joined #lisp 09:42:31 _6502_: well, it might work accidentally. 09:43:18 _6502_: then use (loop for key in seq :by #'cddr) 09:43:24 *on seq 09:43:28 <_6502_> xach: true... i'll give it a try 09:43:54 *_6502_* goes back working on the nuclear reactor control software 09:43:55 Xach, are you saying that I should use compress-data instead of callback/compressor + compress-octet-vector{1..n} + finish-compression ? 09:44:01 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-010-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:10 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:44:38 use compress-data{1..n} 09:45:02 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 09:45:05 <_6502_> flip214: it's a trivial function to write... i just wanted to know if was already there (so if it was stupid to write my own version) 09:45:42 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:46:53 _6502_: you could use alexandria's plist-alist ... 09:47:33 kiuma: No. I'm trying to figure out what you were using that was blocking. 09:48:19 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 09:49:02 <_6502_> flip214: i was thinking to (defun getfcdr (x key) (if (eq key (car x)) x (getfcdr (cddr x) key)) 09:49:09 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:25 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has joined #lisp 09:49:32 how about (getfcdr NIL :x) ? 09:49:36 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:49:50 hee hee 09:50:11 it is very hot today. I ran the Lisp IDE :) demo successful. thanks for flip and stassats 09:50:25 <_6502_> or about a cycle ? 09:50:42 I have to control the callback call in my code and not by salza2:finish-compression , because if i call it in my write-bytes function it will stream all the reply out in one time, blocking other http responses 09:50:46 dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:58 well, a cycle would make a plist invalid ... you could do an assert on proper-list-p (?) 09:51:14 but I think _not_ having the key in the plist is fairly common, isn't it? 09:51:39 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51:47 <_6502_> thats true.... it's worth handling 09:52:06 flip214: hi 09:52:09 pjb`: hi 09:52:13 compressing a single chunk might be the solution I'm looking for, thought not optimal sized 09:52:13 <_6502_> (i don't need that for my use but probably doesn't penalize much) 09:52:18 Hi! 09:52:19 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:52:21 Xach: hi. 09:52:27 Posterdati: Ho! 09:53:40 kiuma: I'd love to see the code. 09:54:09 -!- Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237:0:dead:beef:cafe:babe] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:54:19 Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p2159-ipad64osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:54:34 Xach, not now it's a mess, but when the server will start serving requests I'll be happy to do 09:55:01 <_6502_> what about (defun getfcdr (x key) (and x (if (eq key (car x)) x (getfcdr (cddr x) key)))) 09:55:15 kiuma: i want to see the bad code. 09:56:22 Xach, this, afternoon ok 09:56:58 so I'll start to put it under github 09:57:38 and I'll oblige myself to write docstrings :) 09:57:43 -!- wizardcloud_Adam [~admin@119.165.21.85] has quit [Quit: ] 09:58:17 now I have to run away from my office :), later 09:58:24 _6502_: perhaps use eql, to make it work for integers, too? 09:59:16 a plist key need not be a keyword 10:00:22 d'oh 10:00:44 _6502_: there is a built-in 10:01:14 <_6502_> xach: perfect... what's that? 10:01:22 (nth-value 2 (get-properties plist (list key))) 10:01:37 <_6502_> hahaha 10:05:31 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-169.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:17 hey Xach 10:06:19 you there? 10:06:42 -!- tcr1 is now known as tcr 10:06:46 hi tcr 10:06:54 what did i break? 10:07:27 it seems like we locally modified buildapp to accept a core argument 10:07:33 which is then passed down to the sbcl process 10:07:52 sounds sensible 10:08:10 -!- _6502_ [5e24f712@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.247.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:08:29 yeah I'd think so, too. 10:08:50 I will try to port that to the latest version 10:09:10 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 10:09:50 is there no link to a git repository on the buildapp website on purpose? 10:09:52 _6502_ [5e24f712@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.247.18] has joined #lisp 10:09:57 (is there one?) 10:09:59 <_6502_> hmmm... netsplit? 10:11:08 <_6502_> xach: anyway get-properties talk about "identical" elements (using eq) ... 10:11:47 *_6502_* thinks it's because property list search must be fast 10:13:05 -!- basho__ is now known as basho- 10:13:15 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 10:13:35 I don't think that eq vs. eql makes much performance-difference ... at least for fixnums on sbcl ;-) 10:14:10 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 10:14:21 _6502_: yeah, i think get-properties is intended to only be suitable for the frequent case of symbol keys 10:14:30 <_6502_> flip214: sure it does... because it has to check that passed values and key in the list are actually symbols or fixnums 10:16:35 _6502_: your getfcdr blew my SBCL's control stack ... 10:17:09 I had assumed that it would get tail-call optimized?? 10:17:29 -!- promus [~quickstac@cpe-67-243-40-160.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:17:33 <_6502_> i hope so, but the disassemble doesn't look very nice 10:18:46 ah, with (optimize (speed 3)) it works 10:19:02 and1hotsauce [~NAM@adsl-68-127-26-65.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:24 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19:38 Hmmm, inconclusive ... for 10e6 elements in a list 0.37 vs. 0.41 secs 10:19:43 (eq vs. eql) 10:20:02 -!- Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p2159-ipad64osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [] 10:20:06 <_6502_> but eql calls the generic eql function... 10:20:26 <_6502_> flip did you try with an empty list may be ? :-D 10:21:04 (length *l*) ... 10000000 10:21:17 (declaim (optimize (debug 0) (safety 0) (speed 3))) 10:21:30 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:22:32 <_6502_> with length 1 you're basically timing function prologue/epilogue 10:23:16 <_6502_> but i agree the asm doesn't seem so nice indeed 10:23:19 xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.165.76] has joined #lisp 10:23:25 no, you're timing god knows what 10:23:26 flip214: EQ vs EQL speed difference can be surprisingly large if (1) the neither argument is know to be (or (not number) fixnum) (2) most of the comparisons are false 10:24:33 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:24:40 we probably could optimize it a bit more, though. inline more of the work done by generic-eql to get some falses resolved inline 10:25:14 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082A4FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:36 (widetag arrangement should be such that checking that neither argument is a number is fairly simple, in which case there is no need for the generic-eql) 10:25:47 <_6502_> niko: i used eq... why the disassembly is so complex? 10:25:59 did you paste the function somewhere? 10:26:01 <_6502_> http://paste.lisp.org/+2MHA 10:27:09 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p50829158.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:28:57 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:30:35 *_6502_* 's blood pressure is 91/65 :-/ 10:31:08 _6502_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122446#1 10:31:10 (defun getfcdr (list key) (loop for (indicator . rest) on list by #'cddr when (eq key indicator) return rest)) 10:31:50 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-207.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:32:01 It's a tail call. Can't sbcl optimize out tail calls? 10:32:09 clisp has no problem with it... 10:33:09 <_6502_> stassats: does that generate better asm code? 10:33:21 i don't care about asm code 10:35:47 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 10:37:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122446#3 has my annotations for the assembly 10:38:04 pjb`: tail-call optimization depends on compilation policy 10:38:08 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 10:39:01 (and even in kanru's annotation it's a tc) 10:39:44 if you jack up the DEBUG quality, then the assembly starts getting more complex 10:42:34 :( 10:42:46 Cant seem to load up xmls with quicklisp anymore :\ 10:42:54 *sadface* 10:44:07 load cxml instead! 10:45:18 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122447 10:45:22 cxml you say. 10:47:09 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:50:23 jsoft: looks like some furriner put some godless accented letter in the source 10:50:37 cxml ftw! 10:50:46 especially cxml-stp :) 10:51:15 what p_l|clone1 says 10:52:47 re. asserting TCO: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/556647 10:52:51 -!- Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:59:01 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:59:31 drforr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:04 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:01:31 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.121] has joined #lisp 11:02:34 nikodemus: Do your recent slime-indentation patches fix ,@(when foo ? 11:02:49 should do so 11:02:57 one of the first things i did :) 11:04:05 Joreji [~thomas@90-240.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:04:10 i keep discovering how much there is left to do, though. eg emacs thinks #p"foo" is two expressions, which messes up indentation for eg any defvar that has it as the initialization 11:05:19 ok that's easy 11:05:38 let me think how I can get hold on my old .emacs 11:06:11 -!- and1hotsauce [~NAM@adsl-68-127-26-65.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 11:08:44 nikodemus: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122448 11:09:37 thanks! 11:10:18 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:11:59 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 11:12:30 nikodemus: you could have the lisp parse/esrap the buffer and hand back a set of extents so you'd be able to map from buffer-position to syntax object and vice versa 11:13:30 (i.e. the Climacs approach) 11:13:51 ay 11:14:13 Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has joined #lisp 11:14:26 would when the lisp is over the network, though 11:14:35 s/would/would suck/ 11:15:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-175-183.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 11:15:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-175-183.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:15:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:15:12 i do have vague thoughts about writing an entirely new indentation engine for a subset of that in elisp, though 11:15:30 but i don't really think i'm going to do it. not enough time and steam 11:18:17 nikodemus: elisp should work, given nxml mode or whatever it is. Or one could write a local CL helper and separate those things that need to be done in the actual (possibly remote) image from those that it's just nice to do in a proper lisp. 11:18:38 sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:35 splittist: given the possibility of messing with readtables I think you have to have the real lisp around 11:23:23 ay 11:25:53 well, having the indentation running in a proper lisp would help the vim users as well ... they could just call the same function 11:27:25 Writing most of slime in CL would be beneficial to switch to a CL emacs, such as Hemlock or climacs too. 11:28:32 Krystof: ye-es. But you want to be able to edit files that don't parse yet. And at some point if you've monkeyed withe readtable enough you're not really using (common)lisp-mode 11:28:57 with the* 11:29:36 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.70] has joined #lisp 11:29:39 s/don't parse/can't be READ/ - they can be parsed with relaxed rules. 11:30:05 very true 11:30:26 -!- gko [~gko@42-72-227-166.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:32:26 -!- scode_ [~scode@94.75.242.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:34 longfin [~longfin@211.246.68.65] has joined #lisp 11:35:37 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 11:36:08 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:38:56 dfdf [3cf3e39b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.60.243.227.155] has joined #lisp 11:39:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:39:08 scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 11:42:04 -!- dfdf [3cf3e39b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.60.243.227.155] has left #lisp 11:43:08 -!- njan [~james@freenode/staff/njan] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 11:46:32 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:47:36 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-240.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:50:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 11:50:47 -!- Landr [Hraban@78-22-144-222.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 11:51:08 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:13 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:52:05 -!- redline6561-work [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:52:13 lanthan [~ze@ip-109-42-57-73.web.vodafone.de] has joined #lisp 11:52:44 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:52:48 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 11:56:04 Joreji [~thomas@90-240.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:57:00 ltriant [~ltriant@124-148-182-97.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:58:30 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-77-166.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:59:32 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.68.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:13 lovebot [~lovebot@2407ds1-fb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 12:02:41 -!- lovebot [~lovebot@2407ds1-fb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:41 stassats: How do I get the actual text content of an element with cxml? 12:04:44 (dom) 12:05:19 i don't use cxml directly, i use cxml-stp, it has stp:string-value 12:07:54 Hmm 12:09:26 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441148.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:09:49 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-169.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:10:09 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:10:09 <_6502_> even at safety 0 sbcl checks that a value is a cons cell before looking for car or cdr ? 12:11:50 _6502_: How do you determine that? 12:12:27 <_6502_> xach: i was only looking at some disassemble output and seems so 12:12:30 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:12:40 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:12:43 Which part of the disassemble output? 12:14:03 Xach, https://github.com/kiuma/kuma but nothing is really working now, as I said. It's a sort of scratchboard that I'll hope will become an http server :) 12:14:27 and there is a lot of code to clean/remove 12:15:02 kiuma: thanks. and that code has problems with salza2 blocking things? 12:15:08 <_6502_> http://paste.lisp.org/display/122446 annotations 2 and 3 ... all that "AND/CMP" stuff that s checking tags 12:16:03 Xach, not yet, because salza2 is not still intgrated but ... 12:16:17 <_6502_> xach: just curiosity, of course 12:16:44 kiuma: Oh, that was the part I was curious about. 12:16:46 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:17:08 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441148.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:17:08 https://github.com/kiuma/kuma/blob/master/src/kuma.lisp#492 12:17:09 _6502_: that code does not use safety 0 12:17:10 ThatHippie [~Talkky@client-66-116-13-202.consolidated.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:28 is where it will not fit my needs 12:18:15 since I need to write to socket stream only a couple of bytes 12:19:01 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:19:35 Xach, I think that only compress data will fit there 12:19:53 since I can work with smaller chunks there 12:20:14 pjb [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:20:19 kiuma: Did you write some salza2 code that did not work? or did you determine it would have a problem by thinking about it? 12:20:30 it will be clearer on the first page serving 12:20:58 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.70] has quit [Quit: airport] 12:21:08 kiuma: there's a typo there, "wirte-some-bytes" 12:21:09 I wrote some examples, then deduced by thinking about how to integrate it 12:22:01 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:22:14 fe[nl]ix, thx I'm a bit dyslexic 12:22:19 I think 12:22:23 _6502_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122446#4 12:22:36 "optize" should be "optimize" 12:22:47 <_6502_> xach: yeah... i just compiled myself and it's a lot neater 12:23:22 Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p2159-ipad64osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:23:33 and a lot more dangerous, of course, but if that's what you want to see. 12:24:35 <_6502_> xach: like i said i was simply curious 12:25:36 _6502_: I like to see when safe code compiles down to few instructions, too, because of providing fairly readable code to a smart compiler. 12:27:05 <_6502_> xach: looks like using property lists for object fields is not totally absurd 12:28:30 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-148-182-97.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: .] 12:29:46 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-169.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:50 -!- pjb [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:31:56 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-169.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:32:00 not totally absurd, but just absurd? 12:33:42 Guess what! I hate XML. 12:34:03 i hated xml before it was popular! 12:34:58 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:35:52 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:36:31 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:36:43 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.117.207] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:37:11 <_6502_> stassats: many years ago i implemented a toy class-less OO language; a slightly dumbed down version (with single "inheritance") requires just a few lines of lisp ... 12:41:01 a classless act 12:41:51 why do I have The constant KUMA::+HTTP-CONTINUE+ is being redefined (from (100 "Continue") to (100 "Continue")) when I call (require :kuma) ? (https://github.com/kiuma/kuma/blob/master/kuma.asd) 12:41:59 <_6502_> http://paste.lisp.org/+2MHD 12:42:29 +http-continue+ is defined in src/constants.lisp 12:42:45 <_6502_> is it only my problem or lisppaste is not working correctly ? after sumitting i just get a blank page ... 12:42:58 I've had that, too 12:44:59 -!- drforr is now known as DrForr 12:45:54 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:47 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:47:10 kiuma: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Defining-Constants.html has some information 12:48:09 longfin [~longfin@211.246.68.175] has joined #lisp 12:49:07 splittist, would eval-when solve my problem ? 12:49:26 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 12:49:46 -!- qizwiz` [~user@ppp-70-245-65-87.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:51:10 or should I just use define-constant ? 12:51:26 defparameter 12:51:27 qizwiz` [~user@ppp-70-245-65-87.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:31 or defvar 12:51:39 kiuma: I'd think about alexandria:define-constant 12:54:31 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.68.175] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:05 -!- lanthan [~ze@ip-109-42-57-73.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:57:57 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:58:21 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:03 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:59:33 aleron [~brad@vpn1.agilex.com] has joined #lisp 13:01:36 antifuchs: aroundp 13:02:18 -!- ThatHippie [~Talkky@client-66-116-13-202.consolidated.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:02:40 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:04:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 13:04:37 Xach, does salza2 support lzw compression ? if yes which is the compression ? 13:04:43 *compressor 13:05:09 kiuma: http://xach.com/lisp/salza2/ has that info 13:05:54 kiuma: the deflate format uses LZ77 and huffman coding, not LZW. 13:06:02 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 13:06:52 but compress uses, LZW. Anyway not a big issue. gzip and deflate will suffice 13:06:53 tfb [~tfb@92.41.16.135.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:08:50 -!- HET2 [~diman@2.25.12.74] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:10:34 -!- morganb [~user@64-238-171-196.cab.apt.gru.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:04 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:05 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:34 morganb [~user@64-238-171-196.cab.apt.gru.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:47 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@74.125.60.4] has joined #lisp 13:19:07 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 13:19:20 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:49 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-240.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:27:45 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 13:28:38 redline6561-work [~redline65@cei-gla-cpk2.coxinc.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:15 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:31:53 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:32:45 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 13:33:05 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:26 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-178-12.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:36:41 strout [~strout@ip-64-255-129-222.ideaone.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:04 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:40:30 Joreji [~thomas@90-240.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:41:36 foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.198.150] has joined #lisp 13:42:05 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:48 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:54 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@74.125.60.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:45:00 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:00 -!- strout [~strout@ip-64-255-129-222.ideaone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:46:04 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BBBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:43 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.167.6] has joined #lisp 13:48:01 heck, sorry, but what is the difference between Cywin and MinGW ? 13:48:19 I'm going to install one of them to my window system 13:48:37 wislin [~user@220.166.0.181] has joined #lisp 13:50:35 http://maylaunch.dotsquare.dk/ <--- worth watching, space launch of private, open-source suborbital rocket... with human-sized payload, apparently :D 13:51:13 and lisp handles which part of this operation? 13:51:24 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@74.125.60.4] has joined #lisp 13:54:51 Maybe it can be used to put lisp trolls in orbit 13:55:10 Xach: it could send trolls on one-time trip, definitely 13:55:26 (and I wouldn't mind putting lisp-powered stuff this way in orbit) 13:55:45 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:48 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:56:04 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:57:45 anyone ? 13:57:46 =.= 13:58:11 Is that just me or Emacs + CCL run really slower on win 7 13:58:14 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:23 compare to my Ubuntu 11.04 13:58:39 rhetorical questions on irc confuse me. 13:59:11 tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:59:12 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:19 morphism: Try google. 13:59:37 Who takes care of the ALEXANDRIA package now? 13:59:53 brucio is the maintainer. 13:59:58 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:00 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:00:33 tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:00:36 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:39 -!- Quadresce is now known as Qworkescence 14:00:53 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:01:17 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:01:20 tcr2 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:01:28 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:53 Landr [~user@178-116-224-148.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 14:03:40 Xach, thanks for your hint 14:03:50 anyone see Gmind ? 14:04:35 ChibaPet [~mason@2001:430:ffff:667:5a94:6bff:fe6d:7bcc] has joined #lisp 14:09:13 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:49 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-141-220.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:13:41 -!- wislin [~user@220.166.0.181] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14:00 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:14:00 wislin [~user@220.166.0.181] has joined #lisp 14:15:20 Rawr, this COMPILE-FILE serialization is pretty hacky. :S 14:15:55 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 14:16:04 -!- aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:16:06 -!- Zol [~Zolomon@li152-84.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:16:23 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:20:18 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yxrhefikxthihhfe] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:23:40 -!- wislin [~user@220.166.0.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:49 -!- _death is now known as adeht 14:26:02 aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 14:26:17 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 14:27:45 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:31:09 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-srzkbspzvlqjqhsi] has joined #lisp 14:34:06 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@74.125.60.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:07 dlowe_nb1 [~dlowe@74.125.60.4] has joined #lisp 14:39:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:42:44 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:46:01 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-srzkbspzvlqjqhsi] has left #lisp 14:50:52 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:59 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has left #lisp 14:53:13 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 14:55:05 oudeis [~oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 14:56:11 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:14 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:14 f'n love lisp. just saw clack link on hn. exactly the kind of framework i was working on myself. :) 14:56:15 jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 14:56:27 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 14:56:55 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:56:57 -!- Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p2159-ipad64osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: I Quit] 14:57:04 but it's so hard to install 14:57:13 *Xach* will probably get tired of that joke but hasn't yet 14:57:31 :) 14:57:36 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 14:57:39 :) 14:57:51 Xach: is that the lead-in to an infomercial about quicklisp? :) 14:57:55 i really need to do more to convince people who give me money to let me just program in lisp. 14:58:08 rsynnott: that's a great idea 14:58:55 you're on the slippery slope now, j_king. soon enough you're going to be wincing when you have to deal with python. :) 14:59:19 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:59:27 Ok anyone with any idea how to get some actual element content using cxml-stp. 14:59:50 Ive found an element, I _just want the actaul value_ 14:59:54 Fade: too late for that. still my primary, but the love affair is fading fast. 15:00:24 jsoft_: what is the "value" of an element? 15:00:30 I'll accept 'told ya so' payments in the form of pints. ;) 15:00:43 VALUE 15:00:47 Fade: Any time. 15:01:22 jsoft_: stassats said "stp:string-value". I think i've used that too. Does it work for you? 15:01:52 Yes, yes it does 15:01:56 Thanks 15:02:12 I dunno why, but could not find any _SIMPLE_ docs just to illistrate basic stuff like that. 15:02:13 wislin [~user@220.166.0.181] has joined #lisp 15:02:35 and how many remain when we weight on the percentage of the religions on a scale basis which can be chosen freely.......how many days remain then ? 15:03:23 homie: whaaaaat? 15:03:39 *Fade* just recently joined twitter 15:03:39 jsoft: http://sigbovik.org/2011/proceedings.pdf 15:03:49 Fade: oh good. @agentultra 15:03:56 I was surprised to find that there's quite a bit of activity around the #lisp hashtag. 15:03:59 boo-yah 15:04:15 Fade: some of it is even about the programming language 15:04:32 *j_king* follows Xach/quicklisp 15:04:36 uups 15:04:38 there are a lot of kanji missives getting tagged by #lisp 15:04:41 i thought i was in #math 15:04:47 lol 15:05:17 I learned quicklisp is big in japan via twitter 15:05:45 there was lisp when i was in tokyo, but i didn't go to the meetups. my japanese is still a little too rusty. :S 15:05:49 I also learned that the googles don't do a good job of xlating the japanese 15:05:52 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:06:22 is clack the system that's emanating out of tokyo? 15:06:30 memory failing 15:06:32 possibly. 15:07:24 there was a UG in shibya i would have gone to if I had a better grasp of the .jp lang 15:07:26 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:08:26 clack is lookin good. 15:08:28 I still haven't attended the toronto lisp meetup. 15:08:38 you're not missing much last I checked. 15:08:41 Fade: I'd imagine tweets are harder to translate than proper prose; people tend to use questionable phrasing to fit under the 140 char limit 15:08:47 they tended to talk about anything but CL. 15:09:05 rsynnott: yeah, i wasn't sure how that works in the presence of kanji 15:10:06 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.215] has joined #lisp 15:10:40 Another Common Lisp HyperSpec interpretation issue: The page for remove-duplicates says "Should signal an error of type type-error if sequence is not a proper sequence." which is unusual because it implies always checking for circular and/or dotted lists. I wonder whether start/end were added late to this function. Other wordings on the same page suggest that. 15:10:49 oudeis [~oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 15:12:06 -!- twbd is now known as twbd|transport 15:12:20 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #lisp 15:13:22 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:40 benny [~benny@i577A32C8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:13:48 oudeis [~oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 15:14:54 My version of SBCL indeed detects the dotted list, even though it ends long after the interval specified by :start/:end, and also goes to an infinite computation for a circular list. 15:14:58 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.198.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:14:59 foocraft_ [~ewanas@78.101.125.51] has joined #lisp 15:15:24 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-178-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:15:30 -!- wislin [~user@220.166.0.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:55 njan [~james@freenode/staff/njan] has joined #lisp 15:15:55 wow. 15:16:05 Actually getting somewhere with this xml s**t now. 15:16:06 beach: I think it should say "should be prepared to ..." the way, say, find does 15:16:20 tfb: Yes, that's my point. 15:16:33 so I think that's just a bug in the spec... 15:16:35 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-161-140.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:16:39 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:42 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 15:16:42 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 15:16:42 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:17:07 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 15:17:27 tfb: But the person who wrote the SBCL version of that function took the spec at face value, at least half of it so to speak. 15:18:20 beach: well, an implementation is free to signal errors even if it does not have to of course 15:18:27 pnq [~nick@AC818574.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:37 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:38 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:31 tfb: Sure. It is more doubtful if it should fail to halt on circular lists. 15:20:31 bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.114.199] has joined #lisp 15:22:22 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-161-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:22:32 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:24:18 tcr [~tcr@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:24:25 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@2001:430:ffff:667:5a94:6bff:fe6d:7bcc] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:25:40 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-161-140.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:26:13 macrocat [~marmalade@99.192.101.50] has joined #lisp 15:26:39 chuc 15:26:47 miswindow :p 15:27:33 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:28:01 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:28:50 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:50 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:29:50 -!- aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:31:14 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:08 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 15:42:31 qizwiz`` [~user@ppp-70-245-65-87.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:36 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:44:21 oudeis [~oudeis@di8-37069.dialin.huji.ac.il] has joined #lisp 15:46:32 -!- qizwiz` [~user@ppp-70-245-65-87.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:48:46 -!- dlowe_nb1 [~dlowe@74.125.60.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:49:59 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:50:04 -!- pnq [~nick@AC818574.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:50:30 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 15:51:50 HET2 [~diman@2.25.11.187] has joined #lisp 15:53:10 aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 15:53:16 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 15:57:57 nikodemus: T! 15:58:01 (you herped?) 15:58:05 ya 15:58:18 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:58:18 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:26 what was the reason for sbcl.1.2.3 vs sbcl_1_2_3 tags? 15:58:54 one day git-cvsimport decided to stop importing one in favor of the other, I believe 15:59:46 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 16:00:28 ok 16:01:11 it imports _ tags, and my script duplicates that tag over to a . tag 16:01:11 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:01:19 hm 16:01:42 i wrote a script to rewrite them and annotate with news -- also getting the right timestamps from cvs 16:01:45 pdlogan [~patrick@235.sub-69-96-146.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:53 that's a great plan 16:02:03 the question is, how much insanity do we generate by rewriting tags? 16:02:08 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:33 as long as they follow the dot scheme, I think we should be fine (autobench uses that for old tags) 16:02:35 i suppose it's acceptable as long as the repo isn't official... but 16:02:54 I'd love to see the _ tags drop off the face of the earth (: 16:03:01 ah, i was going to go with _ scheme, because that matches what the commit messages say :) 16:03:08 and having NEWS and correct dates is cool 16:03:10 hm, wait. 16:03:33 "git-describe" returns weird names in that case 16:03:37 not sure if that's relevant though (: 16:03:52 currently . is the annotated tag, and _ is a lightweight tag pointing to it 16:04:17 well, i was thinking we could switch to sbcl-1.2.3 for 1.0.50 onwards 16:04:18 ah, actually. I don't think autobench uses git describe anyway. hm. 16:04:23 yes please (: 16:04:49 now, what about the branch start tags? 16:04:55 do we need them? 16:04:59 not sure at all 16:05:36 in those cases where "git merge-base master branch" agrees with the tag, i'd drop them 16:05:52 but then there are a few oddballs 16:06:02 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@235.sub-69-96-146.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:22 sounds good 16:06:26 those, I'm sure we could keep 16:06:38 also, I don't know if we want back-referencability from irc logs to branches ((: 16:07:51 hah 16:08:21 ok, finally, i was thinking to rename all the cvs branches and non-release tags with a cvs- prefix 16:08:46 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 16:08:56 not so sure about that, though 16:10:14 sounds sensible, too 16:10:23 I'm not sure it's really needed, though (: 16:12:01 promus [~quickstac@cpe-67-243-40-160.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:01 francogrex [~user@109.130.217.125] has joined #lisp 16:16:46 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:18:11 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 16:20:23 pdlogan [~patrick@187.sub-72-102-206.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 16:20:43 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-77-166.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 16:21:11 -!- armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:21:44 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:22:09 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-77-166.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:23:32 -!- xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.165.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:23:49 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:24:11 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:47 -!- gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:28:35 cheezus [~Adium@69.196.141.102] has joined #lisp 16:29:06 enthymeme [~kraken@96.31.242.194] has joined #lisp 16:29:36 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69.196.141.102] has quit [Client Quit] 16:33:45 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:201:4aff:fef3:f0d4] has joined #lisp 16:34:16 so much history! 16:34:34 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-fekqjuhkmapyxrra] has joined #lisp 16:34:39 *antifuchs* dons cardigan (: 16:34:50 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-146-128.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:36:16 -!- jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:36:32 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36:40 -!- tcr [~tcr@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:39:17 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:39:51 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@di8-37069.dialin.huji.ac.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:45:28 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 16:53:05 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-154-180.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:49 Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p2159-ipad64osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:55:56 is there a way to call TIME in the REPL without having the result form printed ? 16:56:11 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.217.125] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:15 I'm benching some perlin noise code, and it's not really nice to have 1024x1024 arrays printed in the REPL 16:56:23 return something else instead 16:56:25 galdor: (progn stuff nil) 16:56:35 galdor: also: (setf *print-length* 42) 16:56:36 you can disalbe printing of arrays 16:56:59 oh, indeed; just forgot the printer was configurable 16:57:05 thank you guys 16:57:12 (or girls, who know) 16:57:24 "lisp comrades" 16:57:57 people of undefined gender is a bit too long perhaps 16:59:24 lisp hackers. 16:59:35 but comrades works (: 17:01:45 "dude" is pretty genderless these days. 17:01:53 "guys", too. 17:02:11 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:40 yeah I hear 'guys' used for women too, but it seems a bit sexist 17:04:43 Hello Lispers! 17:04:52 yeah. there are more gender-neutral collective nouns available (: 17:05:17 -!- twbd|transport is now known as twbd 17:05:21 "a sequence of lisp hackers" 17:06:14 apropos Beach's earlier queries about proper sequences I just now found myself asking a somewhat similar question. Is there any notion in the spec of an im(proper) sequence, e.g. one with circular back references? 17:06:35 specifically w/r/t vectors? 17:07:18 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.23] has joined #lisp 17:07:39 http://l1sp.org/search/improper 17:08:37 Xach: yes, moreover there is an explicit entry in the glossary for "proper sequence" 17:08:50 srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:59 <_3b> 'improper' refers to the structure, not the contents, so pretty hard to apply to a vector 17:10:18 Where a sequence is defined as 1. "an order collection of elements" or 2 a vector or list 17:10:19 <_3b> non-standard sequences could be 'improper' though 17:10:54 <_3b> right, which is why 'proper sequence' can get away with defining it in terms of 'vector or proper list' 17:10:57 aleron_ [~brad@165.sub-69-97-147.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 17:11:21 I think the proper collective noun for a group of lisp hackers would be "recursion" 17:11:27 a recursion of lisp hackers. 17:11:32 -!- aleron [~brad@vpn1.agilex.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:11:50 _3b: So a vector may be improper? 17:11:50 -!- aleron_ is now known as aleron 17:11:56 <_3b> no 17:12:09 b/c it is ordered? 17:12:17 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 17:12:25 <_3b> because the definition of proper sequence includes 'vector' 17:12:33 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:12:34 Davsebamse_ [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 17:12:45 <_3b> so by definition, a vector is a 'proper sequence' 17:13:10 :) OK. Thanks! 17:13:13 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@74.125.60.4] has joined #lisp 17:13:23 -!- Davsebamse_ [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Client Quit] 17:15:00 <_3b> note that proper lists can contain themselves without becoming improper, as long as the CDRs are conses that aren't already part of the list structure 17:15:10 Maybe the glossary entry for array is releveant, e.g. "Cartesian coordinate system" 17:16:38 its not possible for a "cartesian coordinates" to cycle right? 17:17:11 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.16.135.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:18:09 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:46 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:06 There's a one-to-one mapping between n-tuples and points in n-space, yeah 17:19:24 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:21:27 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Client Quit] 17:22:25 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:24:58 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:06 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:36 Bike: #(a "Hello" #c(1 2) (a b c)) <-> R ? 17:26:51 R I can't count now... 17:27:27 <_3b> yeah, 0,1,2,3 are all in R 17:27:30 That's a one-dimensional array. 17:28:01 Not sure I understand here. 17:28:07 Perhaps, but can you map all the lisp objects to R? 17:28:39 Unless you accept spaces of infinite dimensions. Ok. 17:28:46 HET3 [~diman@2.25.11.221] has joined #lisp 17:29:24 <_3b> pjb` we're only talking about array indices though, not arbitrary objects 17:29:44 -!- HET2 [~diman@2.25.11.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:30:01 #(0 0 0 0) then. 17:30:04 ok. 17:30:09 I was only trying to answer whether Cartesian coordinates could "cycle". 17:30:31 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:31:10 Well, if you need coordinates for an infinite dimensional vector space, then you conceivably may use a cyclic list... 17:31:17 In general, a serie. 17:31:51 carlocci [~nes@93.37.205.165] has joined #lisp 17:32:05 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:35:07 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.210.109] has joined #lisp 17:35:07 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-167-19.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:35:17 centipedefarmer [~nothingHa@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 17:37:29 -!- centipedefarmer [~nothingHa@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:38:41 centipedefarmer [~nothingHa@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 17:38:41 pkhuong: looking like I have a haunted ec2 instance. that same test case will not fail on another machine 17:38:46 -!- srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:41:30 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:42:12 pjb: i guess this says its possible http://eom.springer.de/c/c024140.htm 17:42:57 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@187.sub-72-102-206.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 17:43:43 sbryant_work: like I said, you could use that C program and bug amazon. 17:44:56 mon_key: On the other hand, lisp doesn't have R, and computers in our universe are not even alpha-0 infinite, so you could argue that Bike's assertion is true. 17:46:33 -!- splittist [~splittist@52-39.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:46:52 :) Either way I've sufficienlty satisfied my curiousity. Thanks all for your help! 17:47:55 IOW, those maths were hurting my brainzors! 17:49:25 I didn't mean to assert anything about Lisp objects, I was just going with the Cartesian coordinates definition for vectors in the hyperspec. 17:50:41 So the mapping is not between n-tuples and n-spaces. 17:51:01 Notice that a complex coordinate is not often used, and hardly appliable to tuples... 17:53:00 well this certainly won't work: (aref (make-array 0) (complex 1 2)) 17:53:43 (aref (make-array 1) (complex 0 1)) 17:53:47 neiter. 17:53:51 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 17:53:53 neither... 17:55:10 (aref (make-array 1) (realpart (complex 0 1))) 17:55:33 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:56:01 No, the funny thing is: (aref (make-array 1) (complex 0 0)) --> NIL :-) 17:56:03 Well... I suppose what the analogy means is that a vector is a bijection from an n-tuple to a place in memory, rather than a Lisp object? As opposed to a circular list, which isn't a bijection since mu links down and mu+lambda links down are the same place. 17:56:17 but (aref (make-array 1) (complex 0 0.0)) --> error 17:56:40 Bike: yes. 17:56:46 that's because (complex 0 0) => 0 17:56:50 Yep. 17:57:06 while (complex 0 0.0) = i. 17:57:17 I need to get better at that writing precisely thing, obviously... 17:57:36 When talking about math stuff, yes. 18:04:03 tippenein [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:07 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:11 interestingly the wikipedia entry for "ordered pairs" mentions Lisp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordered_pair 18:05:03 -!- Landr [~user@178-116-224-148.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:06:40 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.114.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:06:58 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:20 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.167.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:11:04 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:11:53 Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.168.223] has joined #lisp 18:14:16 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:21 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:15:29 -!- centipedefarmer [~nothingHa@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:16:58 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:38 Xach, you about? 18:17:38 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:17:38 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 18:17:38 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 18:17:51 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.168.223] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:18:03 Qworkescence: what's up? 18:18:23 -!- Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p2159-ipad64osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: I Quit] 18:18:55 Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p2159-ipad64osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:19:11 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:20:10 Xach, I am looking at using your ZPNG library. I have a (VECTOR (UNSIGNED-BYTE 8)) of grayscale pixel values and the width and height of the image in pixels. Will your library be sufficient for (1) only writing these files, and (2) writing them relatively fast (I know this is implementation dependent, but currently I'm using CL-PDF and I have to convert the MB of data to a string for writing to the PDF)? 18:20:47 Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237:0:dead:beef:cafe:babe] has joined #lisp 18:21:15 I'm not sure what 1 means. "only writing"? 18:21:33 Well I won't be reading, which I don't think your lib supports. 18:21:58 (I will be AFK for a moment; be right back) 18:23:11 Qworkescence: I guess you'll just have to try it and see if it's fast enough. 18:23:24 Qworkescence: If speed is important, try SBCL. If that's not fast enough, you'll have to try some other approach. 18:23:28 -!- aleron [~brad@165.sub-69-97-147.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:24:52 It's only a MB of samples? 18:26:12 -!- jweiss is now known as jweiss-brb 18:30:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-240.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:41:52 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:43:13 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:44:11 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:47:00 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:47:27 pdlogan [~patrick@64.134.130.8] has joined #lisp 18:48:47 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:35 Landr [~user@178-116-224-148.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:50:03 centipedefarmer [~nothingHa@74-84-107-90.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:20 -!- morganb [~user@64-238-171-196.cab.apt.gru.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:50:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:51:01 Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:54:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:55:35 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:56:22 morganb [~user@64-238-171-196.cab.apt.gru.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:42 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 18:57:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:58:49 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01:45 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-154-180.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:02:13 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-154-180.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:10 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:12:23 qizwiz``` [~user@ppp-70-245-65-87.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:29 lanthan [~ze@p54B7B596.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:48 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:12:49 Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:36 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7B596.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:14:06 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:53 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:33 Qworkescence: the suspense is killing me 19:15:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:47 lanthan [~ze@p54B7B596.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:56 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 19:16:27 -!- qizwiz`` [~user@ppp-70-245-65-87.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:16:37 salutations little and non-little lispers, lisplings, and lisplangers 19:16:57 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:17:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:17:12 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:17:19 Qworkescence: anyway, with a million random samples, ZPNG wrote the file in 0.1 seconds on my system (fast AMD64 + SBCL). YMMV. 19:17:40 It's a lot faster with non-random samples. 19:19:09 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:21:05 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:21 Bike1 [~Glossina@71-38-157-5.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:46 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:22:52 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-154-180.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:24:22 oudeis [~oudeis@2.53.230.94] has joined #lisp 19:24:36 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0069.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 19:25:15 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.53.230.94] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:14 oudeis [~oudeis@2.53.230.94] has joined #lisp 19:28:23 pnq [~nick@ACA2FC9C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:51 Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:34:18 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.53.230.94] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:39:22 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:41:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:41:54 -!- morganb [~user@64-238-171-196.cab.apt.gru.net] has left #lisp 19:41:54 lispm [~lispm@g224123208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:42:26 -!- promus [~quickstac@cpe-67-243-40-160.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:43:15 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224123208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:43:35 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@74.125.60.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:17 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:47:54 Xach, Sorry, I had to go to a meeting. 19:48:06 Unacceptable. 19:48:14 -!- Bike1 is now known as Bike 19:48:35 Xach, I have samples that are a maximum of 1500 x 1500. 19:49:03 Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 19:49:43 hi 19:50:01 Qworkescence: here's what you could do to test it: (defvar *png* (make-instance 'png :height 1500 :width 1500)) (replace (image-data *png*) my-sample-array) (time (write-png *png* "my-image.png")) 19:50:05 Qworkescence: or similar. 19:50:16 oops, forgot a piece 19:50:26 is it really that easy 19:50:34 (make-instance 'png :color-type :grayscale :height 1500 :width 1500) 19:51:01 antoni [~user@181.pool85-53-0.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 19:51:09 <_6502_> why (in-package #:salza2) instead of just (in-package :salza2) ? 19:51:23 Qworkescence: pretty much. you need to import/inherit the symbols, but that's about all the code you'd need. 19:51:37 _6502_: the former does not intern a symbol named "SALZA2" anywhere. 19:52:00 <_6502_> ..and...? 19:52:19 <_6502_> interning keywords is bad? 19:52:20 _6502_: and I like to avoid that, usually. don't need package names in apropos output, for example. 19:52:29 <_6502_> oh, ok 19:52:47 <_6502_> using "SALZA2" instead is not the same? 19:52:51 Xach is becoming a smug lisp weenie 19:52:52 _6502_: some people don't care and use :foo or "FOO". 19:53:16 _6502_: "SALZA2" does not work in Allegro CL's "modern" mode. I also find it a little uglier to read. 19:53:30 Some people consider breaking "modern" mode a plus, but I don't. 19:54:05 anti-modern mode people, please have mercy. 19:54:06 <_6502_> me neither 19:54:24 *_6502_* doesn't even know what Allegro CL modern mode is :-) 19:54:40 <_6502_> non-case-sensitive may be? 19:54:46 <_6502_> sorry 19:54:50 <_6502_> case-sensitive 19:55:10 _6502_: http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/8.2/doc/case.htm 19:56:14 sorry, not sure if it's a good place to ask, but i'm researching on best classic programming languages designs and implementation books, anyone got an idea ? 19:56:30 anyway it 19:56:31 -!- zbigniew [~zb@ipv6.3e8.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:56:46 its* a right place i think ! 19:57:19 Night-hacks: Lisp in Small Pieces is pretty interesting 19:57:30 cpc26 [~cpc26@rrcs-70-63-155-141.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:57:33 -!- antoni [~user@181.pool85-53-0.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:36 Night-hacks, "Programming Languages: History and Fundamentals" by Sammet 19:58:00 antoni [~user@181.pool85-53-0.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 19:59:15 _6502_: CL is already case-sensitive. Modern-mode just plays nicer with a :preserve-ing reader. 19:59:21 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@rrcs-70-63-155-141.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:51 checking ... 20:01:16 -!- antoni [~user@181.pool85-53-0.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:23 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:01:41 antoni [~user@181.pool85-53-0.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 20:01:55 ThatHippie [~Talkky@client-66-116-13-202.consolidated.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:51 What is the use case of CL-PPCRE:SCAN's intermedidiary coercion of TARGET-STRING to a SIMPLE-STRING? 20:05:30 IOW, when might this be useful: (cl-ppcre:scan "a" #(#\a #\b #\c)) 20:07:51 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 20:07:58 mon_key: there are non-simple strings as well. 20:09:12 -!- qizwiz``` [~user@ppp-70-245-65-87.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:45 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 20:10:33 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-232-228.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:10:39 pkhuong: Yes. Just curious if anyone might have reference to code which exploits the intermedidiary coercion to good affect. 20:11:02 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.15/2009101909]] 20:11:42 -!- Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 20:11:47 mon_key: non-simple strings. 20:12:11 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-119-189.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:12:35 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.210.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:13:50 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-167-19.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:18:16 pkhuong: yes, I can imagine it might be handy for those :) 20:21:32 -!- ThatHippie [~Talkky@client-66-116-13-202.consolidated.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:22:14 antoni` [~user@181.pool85-53-0.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 20:25:23 -!- antoni [~user@181.pool85-53-0.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:25:54 promus [~quickstac@cpe-67-243-40-160.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:00 antoni`` [~user@181.pool85-53-0.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 20:28:14 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:42 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:30:47 bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.86.72] has joined #lisp 20:30:49 -!- antoni` [~user@181.pool85-53-0.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:31:26 -!- antoni`` [~user@181.pool85-53-0.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:55 antoni [~user@181.pool85-53-0.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 20:35:00 ThatHippie [~Talkky@client-66-116-13-202.consolidated.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:52 superflit [~superflit@exhibitor.53.61.mpeainet.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:12 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:50 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:57 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 20:45:36 -!- ThatHippie [~Talkky@client-66-116-13-202.consolidated.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:46:08 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:21 -!- HET3 [~diman@2.25.11.221] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:47:20 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.86.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:56 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:30 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:58:13 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:59:12 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:201:4aff:fef3:f0d4] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 21:02:46 antoni` [~user@181.pool85-53-0.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 21:05:20 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:05:28 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-119-189.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:06:06 -!- antoni [~user@181.pool85-53-0.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:08:29 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:08:55 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:36 libertas [~lupe@a89-152-103-175.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:10:16 fourier [~user@h-136-1-229.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 21:14:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:15:09 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:26:07 -!- PuffTheMagic is now known as Puffy_pixi 21:27:47 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:44 -!- Puffy_pixi is now known as PuffTheMagic 21:30:14 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:30:24 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:58 -!- superflit [~superflit@exhibitor.53.61.mpeainet.com] has quit [Quit: superflit] 21:31:34 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:37:03 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:41:22 Anyone played with Clack? 21:41:33 http://clacklisp.org/ 21:42:13 Joreji_ [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:42:47 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:43:06 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@64.134.130.8] has left #lisp 21:43:10 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 21:44:08 OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 21:44:08 -!- OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Client Quit] 21:44:14 what does it do? 21:44:22 *Landr* is unfamiliar with web frameworks 21:45:10 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:45:40 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-207.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:47:06 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:47:34 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:47:45 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-169.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:35 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:00 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-166-177.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 21:53:09 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:59:49 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:00:14 urandom__ [~user@p548A6C64.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:36 it's not exactly a framework 22:02:42 it's glue code 22:03:58 rparker [~user@68.171.143.254] has joined #lisp 22:04:01 gigamonkey: haven't really played with it but sykopomp and I were talking about it earlier. 22:04:15 not very interested in trying it out. 22:05:34 I have a (loop while (when-let (var (...)) (do-stuff var) t)) construct. Is there a more idomatic of doing this? 22:06:11 idiomatic ever 22:06:13 evn 22:06:15 gigamonkey: just asked the same thing couple days ago 22:06:52 (loop for var = ... while var do ...) is common, although I'm not sure it's actually standard 22:07:40 gigamonkey: I now Rack and Sinatrarb and Clack and Caveman seem to be similar 22:07:53 /s/now/know 22:08:07 There's always something like (loop (let ((var (or ... (return)))) ...)) 22:09:32 huangho [~vitor@201-11-211-183.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 22:10:20 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:10:25 Is where any equivalent to 'push' but adding the element to the end of the sequence? 22:11:20 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-166-177.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:41 -!- v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:11:42 push only works on cons lists. If you use vectors, vector-push[-extend] adds to the end. 22:12:18 If you want to add to the end and use cons lists, you can either push/nreverse or keep a reference to the last cons in the list and (setf cdr). 22:12:43 ThatHippie [~Talkky@client-66-116-13-202.consolidated.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:11 -!- antoni` [~user@181.pool85-53-0.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:37 hm second solution looks a bit difficult, but the first requires resorting the list every time. Maybe some function like: (defun push-back (x L) (setf L (append L (list x)))) ? but this don't allow to modify the argument L.... 22:17:05 Good morning everyone! 22:17:31 who said anything about resorting? 22:18:01 note that append must fully traverse all but its last argument. 22:18:07 Will nreverse require O(n) operations to construct the list ? 22:18:21 Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:30 fourier: Yes. 22:19:00 only when you call it. It works best when you batch a number of push operations, and only reverse at the end. 22:20:20 <|3b|> fourier: APPEND will require O(n) operations to find the end of the list 22:20:50 also, I don't think setf on variables does what you think it does. 22:23:46 but if I already have a list, like (setf a (list 1 2 3)); and decide to push elements to its end, (push 4 a); and do nreverse afterwards it I will get the not what I expected... 22:23:59 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:05 fourier: push doesn't push elements to the end 22:24:58 -!- redline6561-work [~redline65@cei-gla-cpk2.coxinc.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:25:01 I know this and this is why I'm asking - need to have modifying(like push does) operation to add element to the end of the list.. 22:25:15 -!- rparker [~user@68.171.143.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:26 fourier: Why do you need to do that? 22:25:59 I iteratively construct the sequence 22:26:04 fourier: I am asking because in the vast majority of the cases where I have been asked that question, it is enough to change your point of view and draw the list the other way around. 22:26:31 fourier: what are you doing exactly? 22:27:31 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:28:30 the idea is like: i'm createing the function which will produce the list of items. This function consists of loop, on every iteration I have to call another function which returns values, which I need to add the the end of the list I'm trying to construct 22:28:39 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-119-189.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:28:50 fourier: you can just use LOOP's collect 22:28:56 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:28:57 -!- basho- [~basho__@dslb-188-108-010-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:59 and I have several functions like this, and decided to have some unified approach 22:29:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:11 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-169.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:29:30 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0069.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:29:37 hm maybe I will take a look, but actially loop is more like loop while 22:29:52 ? 22:30:29 ahha, I understand. ok will read about loop collect, this sounds nice 22:30:43 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:31:13 zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:31:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:31:36 DaHippie [~Talkky@client-66-116-13-202.consolidated.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:39 -!- ThatHippie [~Talkky@client-66-116-13-202.consolidated.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:35:20 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:36:41 -!- DaHippie [~Talkky@client-66-116-13-202.consolidated.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:37:27 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:38:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:40:51 -!- naiv_ [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-46-66.w86-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:05 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:26 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:47:40 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-77-166.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:48:19 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-77-166.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:50:57 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.219] has joined #lisp 22:53:07 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:53 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:56:28 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2FC9C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:01:46 -!- fourier [~user@h-136-1-229.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02:13 mydik [~qle@99-14-26-190.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:48 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-169.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 23:05:36 antoni [~user@146.pool85-53-27.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 23:07:38 If I want to parse HTML, what library should I use? cl-html-parse seems pretty old. 23:08:41 <|3b|> closure-html ? 23:10:07 Okay. That does look more maintained. 23:11:41 -!- mydik [~qle@99-14-26-190.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:11:56 hi, I'm trying to install clx with quicklisp but got a problem http://pastebin.com/SPYSGAZ7 23:12:02 any ideas on this? 23:12:30 <|3b|> newer sbcl maybe? 23:12:49 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.219] has joined #lisp 23:13:22 mydik [~qle@99-14-26-190.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:27 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:13:35 Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 23:13:39 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:54 sbcl version 1.0.45 23:14:18 64 bits system (slackware) 23:14:49 wait, didn't .45 have that compiler bug? 23:14:50 <|3b|> yeah, that sounds like the bad version 23:14:55 -!- Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:14:59 the one that failed compiling clx (: 23:15:13 libertas: grab a newer sbcl (binaries should work) - that bug has been fixed 23:15:30 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-232-228.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:43 That was a slackware package. I know nothing from lisp let's see if I can compile version 1.0.48 by hand 23:18:22 you can just grab a binary off the website (: 23:18:40 http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html has the latest builds 23:21:31 people still use slackware? 23:21:41 hahaha 23:22:02 -!- mydik [~qle@99-14-26-190.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:22:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-fekqjuhkmapyxrra] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:23:07 strout [~strout@ip-64-255-129-222.ideaone.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:19 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:25:31 the linux/ppc binary should be updated. 23:25:40 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:27:04 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:29:10 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 23:30:28 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:37 thanks antifuchs, changed my slackbuild to accomodate version 1.048 and installed sbcl 23:33:29 -!- libertas [~lupe@a89-152-103-175.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:34:04 -!- centipedefarmer [~nothingHa@74-84-107-90.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:35:13 sweet 23:37:21 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 23:38:53 timack [~tim@hlfx62-1-111.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:40:50 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756a74.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:35 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:45:27 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 23:49:39 -!- Guest27484 is now known as xristos 23:51:32 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:53:51 pnq [~nick@ACA2339B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:55:48 Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:56:34 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-141-220.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:56:59 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-141-220.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 23:57:29 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:57:33 Okay, so... if I let SLIME display a variable holding the parsed representation of a particular webpage, it says the lisp disconnected unexpectedly. But I can deal with the variable otherwise normally. Is there some kind of length limit for the display? 23:57:47 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:58:06 -!- kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:05 *|3b|* 's first guess would be encoding