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[~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 06:13:55 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:18:19 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 06:18:59 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:19:28 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.59.213.188] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 06:23:21 agumonkey [agumonkey@64.158.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:27 sacho [~sacho@95-42-105-75.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 06:23:43 Gmind [~morphism@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 06:25:28 *zenlunatic* can't believe PCL is online free 06:26:27 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-209-200.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:57 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:30:11 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:30:56 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-177-209.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:31:58 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 06:33:08 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-209-200.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:33:29 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:33:34 -!- beach [~user@116.118.3.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:34:07 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-30-40.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:39 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 06:35:18 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-177-209.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:35:22 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has joined #lisp 06:35:36 zenlunatic: you may also send money to gigamonkeys. 06:35:53 If that would adjust your belief gauge. 06:36:21 im debating buying 06:36:48 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-68.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:37:49 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:38:00 good morning 06:38:20 -!- abeaumont 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has joined #lisp 07:16:31 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has joined #lisp 07:17:17 udzinari [~udzinari@89.102.12.6] has joined #lisp 07:18:22 lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7FA90.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:35 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:19:50 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has joined #lisp 07:20:01 -!- ceders [~ceders@adsl-99-91-240-133.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21:11 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7C1A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:21:33 ceders [~ceders@adsl-99-91-240-133.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:50 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:28:38 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:02 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@89.102.12.6] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz] 07:30:56 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:31:01 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:39:49 -!- rme [rme@clozure-539BB436.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 07:40:11 -!- ceders [~ceders@adsl-99-91-240-133.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:41:16 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-103-194.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:42:23 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:43:02 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:43:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:44:11 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:48:06 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@188-23-233-199.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 07:49:35 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:45 aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:51:24 yakov [~yakov@109.188.162.22] has joined #lisp 07:51:25 #lisp 07:51:29 sorry. 07:53:23 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53:32 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has joined #lisp 07:55:22 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-179-184-40.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:43 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 08:01:08 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 08:07:37 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:07:39 Gmind [~morphism@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 08:08:38 hey, anyone here know how to establish connection between host and VBox guest ? 08:10:55 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-229-126.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 08:12:12 -!- Bike [~arm_of_th@71-38-158-155.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:13:08 Does that involve S-expressions? 08:13:32 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 08:14:20 slyrus: cxml-rng fix pushed 08:14:22 yes 08:14:30 I use usocket 08:14:41 to listen to a certain (Host , port) 08:14:50 to connect through VBox 08:14:55 to WinXP os 08:15:08 trying to use NAT forward port 08:15:15 but no use 08:15:52 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 08:16:01 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-85-48.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:19 Does ping work? Telnet? anything else? 08:17:22 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.95.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:18:23 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7FA90.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:18:25 netstat tool reported that my usocket is already listen to port 12345 and host 0 08:18:39 how to set VBox setting to match this ? 08:19:08 can you ping the other side? Networking should perhaps be NAT 08:19:35 yep, I am using NAT to forward data 08:20:56 -!- Gmind [~morphism@113.190.161.155] has left #lisp 08:21:08 sausages [~valc@balmora.robotjunkyard.org] has joined #lisp 08:21:09 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.216.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:21:57 Guthur [c0c1f510@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.16] has joined #lisp 08:23:29 and does ping work? 08:23:46 *Phoodus* uses SLIME's inspector for the first time, after searching around for sbcl specifics to aid in finding memory leaks 08:24:02 ltriant [~ltriant@203-217-69-111.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:24:09 that feature is very nice 08:24:30 if ping works, but the TCP connection doesn't, it sounds like a firewall issue. 08:25:33 nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-54-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:26:06 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:33:54 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754272.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined 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[~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:04:04 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:04:05 -!- TheRealLongshot_ is now known as TheRealLongshot 09:07:13 nu11ptr [~nu11ptr@24-247-9-81.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 09:10:23 akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-093-204.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:37 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:30 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:15:59 orivej [~orivej@host-13-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 09:16:32 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 09:17:48 kai_ [~kai@e177091190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:18:04 -!- kai_ is now known as wetnosed 09:19:04 ceders [~ceders@adsl-99-16-54-216.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:59 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:23:11 -!- KDr2 [~Adium@114.243.238.159] has left #lisp 09:23:18 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-179-184-40.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:32 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:24:25 hey all. is there a 'standard' alternative to PCL's once-only? 09:24:34 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:24:58 -!- c|mell [~cmell@77.77.253.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:25:37 -!- yakov [~yakov@109.188.162.22] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:26:05 -!- leyyer_su [~chatzilla@119.6.65.125] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:44 <_3b> clsmith: alexandria:once-only ? 09:26:51 I like Let/Lambdas defmacro! 09:26:54 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:28:44 _3b: oh neat, i'd not seen alexandria. thanks 09:28:56 <_3b> Guthur: were you looking for me? 09:29:36 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:30:01 <_3b> clsmith: there is probably a version of that in most 'generic CL utilities' libraries (and probably a good fraction of other projects that don't use some sort of 'generic utilities' lib) 09:30:40 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 09:30:41 <_3b> alexandria seems to be the current popular choice for generic utilties for people who don't just use their own lib 09:31:23 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-179-184-40.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:31:36 sellout: for when you wake up, it occurred to me that maybe a better way of removing those style warnings you were getting is to have your method combination expand to `(let ((reader-object ,reader-object) (writer-object ,writer-object)) (declare (ignorable reader-object writer-object)) ...) 09:32:06 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-85-48.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:33:24 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754272.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:32 _3b: yep 09:34:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:34:45 is cl-opengl still not thread safe 09:35:06 <_3b> you need to disable automatic error checking or not use immediate mode 09:35:13 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x107.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:35:17 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x107.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 09:35:20 <_3b> (in addition to normal threading concerns 09:35:23 oh, so if IM is not used it will be fine 09:35:25 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:35:29 -!- xpf [~xpf@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:35:34 <_3b> i think it should be OK 09:35:56 what opengl versions support multithreading 09:36:13 is it a driver thing as well 09:36:16 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-229-126.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:36:30 <_3b> problem is that you can't check for errors between glBegin and glEnd, so right now it just sets a global flag to disable it when it sees glBegin 09:36:50 that shouldn't be the issue 09:37:24 <_3b> i don't think GL itself really talks about 'support' for threads 09:37:48 <_3b> most stuff i've seen just suggests limiting thread use to a few specific patterns if possible 09:37:49 I did see something last night on a forum 09:37:55 markskilbeck [~markskilb@host81-132-123-208.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:37:55 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@host81-132-123-208.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:37:55 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 09:37:58 <_3b> like 1 main thread doing all the GL calls 09:38:03 regarding having two contexts on separate threads 09:38:17 <_3b> maybe mapping buffers in main thread, and passing the pointer to another thread to fill 09:38:21 and being able to use both 09:38:23 <_3b> multiple contexts is another option 09:38:36 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-113-163.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:52 well I tried last night just to recompile a shader but it kept throwing an error 09:39:09 sorry not at my PC now so can't reproduce 09:40:21 <_3b> one issue you see a lot with slime is that you need to do GL stuff from a thread with an active GL context 09:40:22 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:27 -!- rme [rme@clozure-D0DF58FC.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 09:40:28 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-113-163.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:40:33 <_3b> so just hitting C-c C-c in a :spawn slime won't work 09:40:35 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:49 <_3b> (potentially even worse on OSX, where some stuff is limited to only thread 0) 09:41:24 *_3b* supposes that is 1 more issue to add to that list of constraints of a nice abstraction for managing GL resources the other day 09:42:18 well that might be it then 09:42:26 <_3b> 2 main options i know of are to either not use :spawn + handle swank events in main loop, or add a queue of 'stuff to run on gl thread' and push thunks onto that rather than executing them directly 09:42:27 I was running the app in a separate thread 09:42:56 yeah, I was looking at the handler in the main thread last night 09:43:01 <_3b> (or i suppose have some resource manager layer that is responsible for noticing stuff changed and updating the resources) 09:43:26 I was also considering setting up a layer like that 09:43:34 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:43:46 I was starting to think of it as a sort of OpenGL VM, hehe 09:44:21 unfortunately only in my head at the moment, with a small (big) matter of programming required 09:44:33 <_3b> yeah 09:44:58 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-229-126.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 09:45:33 snearch [~snearch@f053001155.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:46:04 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-229-126.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:47:19 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:49:53 I think I may setup some layer like that, done correctly it may facilitate cross platform rendering in the future 09:50:58 _3b: have you tried any of the GUI libs 09:51:29 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:55:16 <|3b|> nope, closest i've done to GUI stuff lately is web 09:58:43 I was just thinking for game design tools 09:58:59 it's nice to have some of the standard GUI elements 09:59:20 I probably should just develop my emacs-fu and provide something there 09:59:32 *|3b|* supposes a tree-shaker for parenscript code might be difficult, too hard to tell what (@ foo bar) is talking about :( 09:59:35 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:59:51 <|3b|> yeah, i'd probably look at one of the qt bindings if i wanted a desktop app 10:00:02 <|3b|> (or maybe capi depending on market) 10:00:29 it's more for just me, not really looking to provide middleware 10:00:54 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 10:00:58 <|3b|> right, that would be the main 'not-capi' case :) 10:00:59 my adhoc business plan doesn't really include that possibility 10:01:44 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 10:03:53 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:07:02 Triplefault_ [~Mouse@adsl-145-215-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:38 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:40 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 10:14:00 -!- stis_ [~stis@95.197.232.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:15:25 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:16:39 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:51 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:20:04 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:13 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 10:20:27 ur5us [~ur5us@121.98.212.19] has joined #lisp 10:20:53 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@121.98.212.19] has left #lisp 10:23:39 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 10:24:25 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:26:51 Gmind [~morphism@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 10:27:05 -!- Gmind [~morphism@113.190.161.155] has left #lisp 10:28:42 Tordek: have you solved your problem with counting repeating numbers in a list? 10:29:20 stassats: I figured it wasn't gonna get better; the lists are 5-7 elements each 10:29:47 I managed to reduce the times I called the function, for a whooping 50% speedup 10:30:28 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:26 Tordek: try this http://pastebin.com/gccquYWK 10:31:41 that assumes that the numbers are in the range 2-14 10:32:34 why (fill array 0) instead of (... :initial-element 0)? 10:32:48 because i don't create an array each time 10:33:09 it's the first thing after the let 10:33:35 yes, but notice LOAD-TIME-VALUE 10:33:43 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:33:51 ah... what does that do? 10:33:58 clhs load-time-value 10:34:28 well, in this case it lets me create the array only once 10:34:40 I assume that you have tried the obvious approach of using a reducing merge-sort? 10:35:36 stassats: that shaved off 2 seconds out of a 10 second runtime. awesome 10:35:44 thanks :) 10:36:41 dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:37:33 though, creating an array each time might actually be faster 10:37:50 stassats: is the loop over the newly generated list faster for small array sizes? 10:38:14 What is the actual problem you're trying to solve? 10:38:23 if there's a big array collecting the used indizes makes sense, but for such small arrays? 10:38:30 Did you try to find the cutoff point? 10:38:49 flip214: well, how do i get them in order? 10:39:20 For small array it might be faster to go through the array, instead of having to CONS (and gc later), no? 10:39:55 ie. once add into array, second time loop over array? 10:40:13 stassats: 8.277 v 8.240s 10:40:46 Tordek: that is with load-time-value vs. no load-time-value? 10:41:00 stassats: correct 10:41:04 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #lisp 10:41:24 though, you might save on garbage collection later 10:41:44 flip214: i'd need a second array then 10:43:29 Amadiro [~Amadiro@193.157.203.87] has joined #lisp 10:44:06 stassats: what for? wouldn't it work to just return non-zero elements? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the problem. 10:44:22 flip214: order preservation 10:44:56 stassats: fwiw, zeros are acceptable in the resulting list 10:45:34 Tordek: can it return (account-duplicates '(2 2 1)) => (1 2)? 10:45:41 Gmind [~morphism@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 10:46:00 stassats: yes; also (0 1 2 0 0 0 0) is fine 10:46:18 then it's may be simpler indeed 10:47:34 hi 10:48:14 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 10:49:16 -!- Gmind [~morphism@113.190.161.155] has left #lisp 10:49:28 Tordek: then try this http://pastebin.com/vWYT4z4X 10:51:14 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@91.114.184.142] has left #lisp 10:51:17 7.93s 10:51:18 stassats: yes, that's what I meant .... but that should only be faster for sparse sets. 10:51:39 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:51:44 flip214: It's a bunch of sot lists; 5-7 elements apiece 10:51:51 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@91-114-184-142.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 10:51:57 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 10:52:01 *short 10:53:00 thanks for the help, stassats :) 10:53:16 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:53:41 galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:09 -!- galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:54:40 i bet it could be lowered under a second! (well, not with this function, but the program as a whole) 10:54:46 galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:53 stassats: very likely 10:55:14 -!- galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:55:51 galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:21 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ewoofdmxwjncrioz] has joined #lisp 10:57:44 -!- Triplefault_ [~Mouse@adsl-145-215-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:58:00 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 10:58:15 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:58:15 Gmind [~morphism@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 10:58:58 -!- lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:06 stassats: it's a simple program that checks all possible poker hands; I'm just toying with it, and I'm sure there are a whole lot of places where it could be improved 10:59:18 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:59:30 justsomerandomgu [~justsomer@67.169.7.215] has joined #lisp 11:00:30 Krystof: That's what I did :) 11:00:34 and the array can be allocated on stack, since it's quite small 11:00:39 -!- justsomerandomgu [~justsomer@67.169.7.215] has quit [Quit: Bersirc 2.2: Looks, feels and sounds (?!) different! [ http://www.bersirc.org/ - Open Source IRC ]] 11:01:29 Tordek: You might like to think of it as a counting problem. 11:02:07 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 11:03:00 -!- Gmind [~morphism@113.190.161.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:03:59 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:04:05 Zhivago: the function or the whole program? 11:04:21 The program. 11:04:40 You're dealing with combinations of cards, which you can enumerate. 11:04:48 (also, to be fair, it's mostly a port from a haskell program I saw, so several things are very unlispy) 11:05:00 In this case, presumably you have constraints that allow you to skip sections. 11:05:11 e.g., a hand cannot contain more than 7 cards, etc. 11:06:11 Zhivago: fun fact: generating 52C5 for a normal poker game was no issue; generating 52c7 for texas hold'em (~100 times as many) filled up all my ram and swap 11:06:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-190.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:06:38 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 11:07:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-190.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:07:45 -!- SidH_ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:07:51 Do you need them all at once? :) 11:07:54 (I've since replaced the second function for a generator, which is slower, but not signifcatively so) 11:08:22 sellout: excellent 11:08:27 (significatively? significantly? er... I think I no use correcto word-o ;[) 11:09:02 significantly. 11:09:10 thanks 11:12:03 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-199-80.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:12:46 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:26 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 11:14:44 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:17:28 -!- orivej [~orivej@host-13-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:18:55 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19:00 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:21:41 faux [~user@host-78-79-161-217.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:22:43 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.28.167] has joined #lisp 11:23:02 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-149-236.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:23:34 -!- splittist [~splittist@AMontsouris-553-1-87-245.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:23:57 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67.194.75.102] has joined #lisp 11:24:25 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 11:26:55 xpf [~xpf@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 11:27:40 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 11:27:41 Yuuhi [benni@p54839B46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:03 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 11:30:56 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-235-79.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:49 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:33:15 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-92-201.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:34:46 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-134-168.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:58 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-235-79.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:38:05 |3b|: do you think that load-time-value operator might be useful in delaying evaluation of some forms until the opengl context has been created 11:38:29 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 11:38:38 it doesn't work that way 11:38:52 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 11:38:55 if have a half baked idea of using lisp forms to define my game resources, eg shaders textures, levels etc 11:39:00 stassats: ah ok 11:39:07 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:39:14 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@82.143.220.223] has joined #lisp 11:39:21 i was having a bit of trouble getting my head around it 11:40:10 jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.28.167] has joined #lisp 11:41:40 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.28.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:43:47 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-113-163.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:49 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:45:27 jingtao`` [~jingtaozf@123.120.28.167] has joined #lisp 11:47:03 is there a quick way to check if a given path points to a directory? something like directoryp 11:47:13 -!- jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.28.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:47:43 no 11:48:04 but there's cl-fad:directory-pathname-p 11:48:52 Munksgaard: if you're running sbcl you could try sb-posix:lstat and friends - but that's low-level 11:49:20 stassats: dammit, more dependencies for my tiny program... 11:49:51 flip214: thanks, ill keep that in mind too, but for now cl-fad looks cool 11:51:16 you could check (not (or (pathname-name pathname) (pathname-type pathname))) 11:51:27 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:53:27 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 11:55:09 stassats: yeah, but it doesnt work if the pathname is given like "/usr/share" 11:55:18 hey. i'm just starting to learn the "lisp way", and i was hoping someone could take a quick look at a few functions and tell me if i'm doing it wrong? :p http://sprunge.us/HFjP 11:55:33 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839B46.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:55:43 Munksgaard: don't give a pathname like that then 11:56:38 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:57:24 clsmith: you use too much macros 11:57:25 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.114.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:29 clsmith: there's no need for multiplep to be a macro 11:57:50 and you don't need a recursive fibonacci generator with memoization 11:57:53 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-15-185-57.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:58:15 i was wondering about that. i guess i could just say '(3 5) 11:58:20 incidentally, the p suffix convention is not to add a hyphen if the original symbol doesn't have hyphens. see stringp etc in the CLHS 11:58:22 stassats: how else could i do it? 11:59:25 (loop for fi = 1 then fi+1 for fi+1 = 1 then fi+2 for fi+2 = (+ fi fi+1) ....) 12:00:00 Yuuhi [benni@p54839B46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:23 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 12:03:18 -!- colazero [~colazero@www5054u.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:03:33 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:03:36 clsmith: (loop for previous = 0 then fib and fib = 1 then (+ previous fib) until (> fib 4000000) when (evenp fib) sum fib) 12:04:33 ThrowingOutTheWs [81826308@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.130.99.8] has joined #lisp 12:05:11 hey? 12:05:16 anyone? 12:05:19 no 12:05:41 Well, to no one then: Why is this lang named after a speech impediment? 12:05:49 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zhgsromjttykpgjz] has left #lisp 12:05:49 go away 12:05:57 ^ what he said. 12:06:12 If you say that ONE MORE TIME, I'm blasting the channel. 12:06:17 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 12:06:19 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*81826308@*.129.130.99.8 12:06:22 -!- ThrowingOutTheWs [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (ThrowingOutTheWs) 12:06:50 Is it moronsday already? 12:06:52 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 12:07:43 mal__, stassats: oh, that does work. i don't know, it seems weird to put so much computation into (loop). it is a bit cleaner than my version, though 12:07:45 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67.194.75.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:08:17 now he'll go and write into his blog how unfriendly #lisp is 12:10:40 clsmith: some people, myself included, write loops of 20+ lines 12:11:00 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:10 that's unhealthy 12:11:24 some people go mad with flet, labels and similar 12:11:51 zfx [~zfx@xvm-9-132.ghst.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:13 is this better? http://sprunge.us/MVXf 12:12:29 no 12:12:35 :< 12:12:35 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:12:46 s/defmacro/defun/ isn't going to make it better. 12:13:20 clhs remove-if 12:13:23 mmm 12:14:00 the regex was slightly more complicated than that :p 12:14:04 sellout [~Adium@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:09 ...regex? 12:14:21 s/x/y/ 12:14:28 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:37 ah 12:15:20 here we go 12:15:22 clsmith: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_everyc.htm 12:15:50 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:16:48 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-248-115.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:18:04 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:19:26 Dear Emacs experts: Is there as easy way to hook up Emacs so that indent-tabs-mode is disabled for all files unter /path/to/sbcl, and left as-is otherwise? 12:20:10 i don't know, but i'm interested in the answer as well... 12:20:23 lichtblau: I am no expert, but if I wanted to do that, I think I might define a derived mode and add /path/to/sbcl/**/*.lisp to the auto-mode-alist. 12:20:47 sykopomp: better? :) http://sprunge.us/cUTK 12:21:28 lichtblau: hook somewhere to switch the mode on/off depending on path? 12:22:26 clsmith: no 12:22:46 <.< lisp is harrrd 12:23:04 clsmith: one easy rule: don't write a macro 12:23:13 clsmith: second rule (experts only): don't write a macro yet 12:23:43 lichtblau: you can always use find-file-hook or post-command-hook. 12:24:37 Xach: but macros are the fun part :p ok, so how would you define 'fibonacci' as a self-contained function without using any macros? :/ 12:25:06 clsmith: what stassats wrote, probably. 12:25:32 -!- jingtao`` [~jingtaozf@123.120.28.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:44 jingtao`` [~jingtaozf@123.120.28.167] has joined #lisp 12:25:56 but that contains the logic for limits, checking for evens, etc, whereas i want a pure fibonacci. otherwise i'd have to repeat a bunch of code every time i have any fibonacci sequence, which is what macros are for, right? 12:26:00 clsmith: (defun fibonacci (upper-limit) ...) perhaps? 12:26:18 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 12:26:35 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:27:01 clsmith: functions are good for abstracting code so you don't have to repeat it every time. 12:27:14 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-134-168.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:27:21 clsmith: you can always pass higher-order functions 12:27:30 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:27:32 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-140-14.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:40 clsmith: see how standard functions accept KEY and TEST arguments, for example 12:27:41 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:31:33 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 12:33:09 lichtblau: I'm not really an expert, but this seems relevant: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Directory-Variables.html 12:33:34 -!- wetnosed [~kai@e177091190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:35 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:50 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:23 wetnosed [~kai@e179014144.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:35:46 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:35:55 nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:36:24 -!- jingtao`` [~jingtaozf@123.120.28.167] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:26 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:37:23 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:33 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:38:17 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:55 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:03 in SBCL, when I get a type error, I only get a very shallow backtrace (starting with a foreign function). Are there any compiler settings to make that more informative? 12:40:03 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-144-139.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:31 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-140-14.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:41:03 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:43:05 is that in a thread? 12:43:26 Yeah. 12:43:27 -!- nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:43:39 there's an launchpad entry about that 12:43:42 it's a platform thing 12:43:51 am0c [~am0c@110.35.151.47] has joined #lisp 12:44:00 :( SOL 12:44:04 thanks 12:44:11 what are you on? 12:44:21 I forgot which platform it is where those stack traces get truncated 12:44:39 nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:45:48 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-144-139.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:46:07 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-121-67.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:18 -!- nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 12:49:03 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:49:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-190.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:49:23 ( is that ``Erik and aerique the same person ? ) 12:51:08 morphism: probably not 12:51:35 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:52:16 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-224-035.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:52:35 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-83-188.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:26 I knew one 12:54:28 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-121-67.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:54:29 cmm 12:54:47 Triplefault_ [~Mouse@adsl-145-215-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:01 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-239-248.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:38 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:26 chr`` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:56:29 huehnts [~huehnts@static.213-239-210-158.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 12:56:46 fds_ [~frankie@ajax.webvictim.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:46 scode_ [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 12:56:47 churib_ [~churib@95.156.194.105] has joined #lisp 12:56:56 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:58 gemelen_ [~shelta@shpd-92-101-149-236.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:57:24 ld-s [~lundis@dyn56-304.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 12:57:29 yesimnat1an [~nathan@184-106-199-134.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 12:57:32 cods_ [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:38 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-83-188.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:57:40 clog_ [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 12:58:00 aerique_ [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:58:01 k9quaint__ [~quaint@c-98-207-104-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:21 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:58:39 hohum_ [~dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:53 billstclair_ [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 12:58:55 Vejeta` [~user@unaffiliated/vejeta] has joined #lisp 12:59:19 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-149-236.vologda.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:19 -!- akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-093-204.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:19 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:19 -!- Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-145-215-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:19 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:19 -!- Vejeta [~user@unaffiliated/vejeta] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:19 -!- borism [~boris@ec2-46-137-99-139.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:19 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:19 -!- yesimnathan [~nathan@184-106-199-134.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:19 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:19 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-304.yok.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:19 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:19 -!- scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:19 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:19 -!- k9quaint_ [~quaint@c-98-207-104-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:20 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:20 -!- fds [~frankie@fsf/member/fds] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:20 -!- huehnts_ [~huehnts@static.213-239-210-158.clients.your-server.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:20 -!- hohum [~dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:20 -!- churib [~churib@95.156.194.105] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:59:23 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 12:59:37 -!- billstclair_ is now known as billstclair 12:59:41 -!- cods_ is now known as cods 12:59:46 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:47 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 12:59:47 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:59:57 -!- churib_ is now known as churib 13:00:11 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:25 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:04:10 The online MOP dictionary seems to be down (http://www.lisp.org/mop/index.html). Anyone know a mirror? My paper copy is at home... 13:04:15 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053001155.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:04:52 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-acqzpnxjkgzjxqjv] has joined #lisp 13:05:40 https://twitter.com/#!/Franzinc/status/63356731262111744 13:05:51 salva_oz [~kvirc@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:13 ok 13:06:15 akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-093-204.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:23 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:06:36 misdirect. g'morning 13:06:40 they host the lisp.org domain, so planet.lisp.org is also offline 13:07:03 Ah. Thanks, Xach. Any ideas on a mirror? 13:07:09 borism [~boris@ec2-46-137-99-139.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 13:07:13 easyE: sorry, nope. 13:07:32 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-154-183.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:45 hello worlds 13:08:14 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 13:08:20 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-239-248.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:08:54 *lichtblau* can't figure out dir-locals; opts for a after-change-major-mode-hook 13:09:03 im trying code a net service and cant resolve a basic error yesterday, with a basic concept 13:10:18 is with threads and the get request function 13:11:29 is working paste .lisp.org? 13:11:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:11:51 salva_oz: *.lisp.org is temporarily down 13:11:59 supposed to be back up in 20 minutes 13:12:00 uch 13:12:06 easyE: use the google cache, http://www.google.at/search?q=mop+dictionary+site:lisp.org 13:12:21 Xach thanks 13:13:10 flip214: You in Austria? I'm in Vienna... 13:13:13 whre can i paste a 15 lines of my bad code? 13:13:39 salva_oz: dropoff.org 13:13:50 easyE: g'day! 13:14:14 morphism: no different people 13:14:24 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:14:28 Unfortunately, we just have Schnitzel Crossings here... 13:15:32 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@143.93.53.41] has joined #lisp 13:16:17 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.88] has joined #lisp 13:16:17 Wiener Schnitzel *slobber* 13:16:22 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:16:42 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-193-133.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 13:17:30 With a good beer, in a sunny garden in Spring, it's pretty nice. 13:18:18 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:18:36 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:18:58 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 13:18:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 13:18:58 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:19:18 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.163] has joined #lisp 13:19:27 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.163] has quit [Changing host] 13:19:27 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:20:46 -!- Vejeta` is now known as Vejeta 13:23:12 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-thkpnwcyguazqslx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:23:35 -!- am0c [~am0c@110.35.151.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:23:48 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:24:18 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@87.10.226.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:43 hi 13:27:49 http://dropoff.org/jl1j/process-wait-with-timeout+bad 13:28:28 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:36 when i run the process the repl gets blocked 13:29:29 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 13:29:52 the code is a basic mongrel2 service 13:32:41 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 13:32:51 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:34:48 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:52 jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-wudnkiejdpdmotxb] has joined #lisp 13:37:51 alama [~alama@n138232.science.ru.nl] has joined #lisp 13:38:32 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:41:01 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-19-177.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:54 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-154-183.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:42:00 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:42:08 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:45:36 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:52:07 sylecn [~sylecn@cpe-70-112-211-195.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:28 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-130.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:59 salva_oz: what should happen? 13:53:16 i sorry 13:53:43 is it working now? 13:54:18 no guthur is was atalking with a friend about it 13:54:34 ah ok 13:54:35 the problem is that i get the repl slime blocked 13:55:26 well unless that handler is running on a separate thread then that would be expected 13:55:34 dont seems a new thread 13:55:54 (mp:process-run-function 13:55:54 "public chat" 'start-chat-server) 13:55:54 13:56:13 here i dont create a new thread? 13:57:11 is your implementation setup for threading? 13:57:54 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@91-114-184-142.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:57:57 urandom__ [~user@p548A6141.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:47 mmm 13:59:54 i thonk so 14:01:40 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:01:42 the code seems ok ? 14:02:17 i don't mean the code, i mean your implementation, was it compiled with threading support? 14:02:32 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 14:02:50 Landr: yes 14:03:15 in that case, it's the code :> what implementation and library are you using? 14:03:27 if i do simple examples threading they works ok 14:03:43 im using allegro 64 bits 14:03:54 linux 14:04:22 allegro threads on all platforms where it runs. 14:04:36 well, you could either use a debugger or build up your simple example (which works) to the function which doesn't and see where it breaks 14:05:03 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.167.168.20] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:05:37 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 14:06:47 my problem is that (m2cl:handler-receive handler) returns when has something, and im using bad process-wait-with-timeout 14:06:54 i think 14:07:10 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:29 http://dropoff.org/jl1j/process-wait-with-timeout+bad 14:08:05 antifuchs: go turn all the servers back on! 14:11:00 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:39 longfin [~longfin@49.63.178.230] has joined #lisp 14:11:42 sigh, seeding srand with rand() /seemed/ like a good idea 14:11:54 *aerique_* goes of to grab some coffee 14:13:39 thanks lichtblau! 14:14:11 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-137-11.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:14 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:14:15 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-19-177.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:14:37 Wheeeee! My code just crashed LispWorks. 14:15:10 Rude. 14:17:02 orivej [~orivej@195.70.200.162] has joined #lisp 14:17:52 _3b: I have some code for rudely slamming things onto the initial-thread so that opengl can be run from a mutltithreaded slime-y sbcl 14:18:26 aerique_: ... HA HA HA HA HA 14:18:44 *p_l|backup* read too much crypto lately 14:19:00 do you know that you need special comparison routines? >_> 14:19:04 -!- fds_ is now known as fds 14:20:11 p_l|backup: what for? (i need rand() for some simple things, not crypto that's out of my league) 14:22:11 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 14:23:44 aerique_: nah, it's just a side effect of reading seriously into crypto... and learning that time spent in comparison routine is actually detectable 14:23:47 splittist [~splittist@82.123.38.245] has joined #lisp 14:23:48 -!- rins` [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:54 pnq [~nick@ACA241B1.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:24:32 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:26:17 ... wtf 14:26:25 *p_l|backup* just lost root storage 14:27:05 The NSA were watching. 14:27:17 sabalaba [~sabalaba@adsl-71-156-15-164.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:13 longfin_ [~longfin@175.216.36.253] has joined #lisp 14:29:33 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:30:05 -!- orivej [~orivej@195.70.200.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:30:12 lichtblau: the output ain't pretty, but it works :) 14:31:53 -!- longfin [~longfin@49.63.178.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:33:12 *stassats* got a little surprised when his function returned  14:33:36 -!- aerique_ [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:33:37 i forgot that i yesterday made that NIL is printed as  14:34:43 billitch [~billitch@78.250.205.192] has joined #lisp 14:34:59 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 14:35:03 børk børk børk? 14:35:09 aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 14:35:29 Landr: What encoding is that? 14:36:02 errr... utf-8 i guess? 14:36:42 Xach: looks like Flattr got the message: http://blog.flattr.net/2011/04/opening-the-floodgates/ 14:36:46 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 14:36:47 longfin [~longfin@110.70.120.114] has joined #lisp 14:36:59 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:27 (char-name #\) => "EMPTY_SET" 14:37:51 -!- longfin [~longfin@110.70.120.114] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:54 (for those who have problems with encodings or fonts) 14:38:09 Landr: I don't think so  I can see stassats' ø, but not yours. 14:38:19 hmm 14:38:21 *Landr* checks 14:38:32 longfin [~longfin@211.246.70.103] has joined #lisp 14:38:33 >IRC (Latin/Unicode Hybrid) 14:38:35 i can see Landr's crossed oes 14:38:36 Oh, I didn't use the empty set  14:38:49 ø 14:38:50 better? 14:38:55 sellout: But I bet you see ellipses all the damn time! 14:38:56 Landr: Nope. 14:39:04 let's see... 14:39:09 -!- Landr [~user@78-21-55-79.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:21 Landr [~user@78-21-55-79.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 14:39:28 i'd like to define a generic function that dispatches based on its first argument, checking for string equality; it seems that EQL is the strongest equality predicate I can use, though -- is there a way of dispatching on particular strings with clos? 14:39:36 testing testing, øne twø three? 14:39:44 When I used Colloquy, it did UTF-8 and fell back to Latin-1 if it wasn't valid. I'm guessing Adium isn't doing the fallback. 14:39:47 Landr: Yes :) 14:40:06 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@175.216.36.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:07 *Landr* set it to utf8 now 14:40:21 unsure what the irc encoding is even 14:40:28 alama: intern 'em first? 14:40:37 Landr: There isn't one specified. 14:40:54 Xach: hmm, that sounds cool, thanks 14:41:05 guess it's an xchat thing 14:41:13 Hunden [~Hunden@141.62.34.24] has joined #lisp 14:41:19 but i'd have to intern the string in the call to the generic function 14:41:28 (my-generic-function (intern my-string)) 14:41:29 Hundenn [~Hunden@141.62.34.24] has joined #lisp 14:41:29 ? 14:41:34 alama: Yes. 14:41:45 IT'S ALIVE! 14:42:11 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 14:42:15 quick, kill it! 14:42:22 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:42:44 studies have shown that the singularity will only need 3.8544 seconds to launch a full nuclear holocaust upon humanity 14:42:49 alama: Or, you can define MY-GENERIC-FUNCTION (STRING) that interns it and calls MY-GENERIC-FUNCTION (SYMBOL) 14:42:50 so you'd best be prepared 14:42:53 alama: find-symbol, rather, and don't forget to specify the right package 14:43:01 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 14:43:01 Landr: that's my hdd 14:43:02 sellout: much nicer 14:43:05 sellout: ah, i like that approach 14:43:06 -!- c3l [~c3l@c-d99be253.04-264-73746f13.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 14:43:06 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:44:26 Hi, it's a basic misunderstanding I'm sure, but why this is wrong? http://francoatgrex.tripod.com 14:44:58 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.70.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:25 francogrex: (list 3 2) should be 3 2. 14:45:33 ok should remove the list 14:45:39 francogrex: That, or get rid of the &rest 14:46:11 right. Thanks. I need the rest because I want rk's f to apply to different functions with variable N of args 14:46:24 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:47:18 francogrex: Ok, now in return, you have to help me figure out why LispWorks crashes whenever I (asdf:load-system :quid-pro-quo) :D 14:47:54 sellout: you make it difficult for me :) especially that I don't use lispworks 14:48:29 is this normal to get a warning when redefining a macro in recent SBCL versions ? 14:48:53 every time I re-evaluate a macro definition in emacs, I get this warning, that's a bit annoying 14:49:24 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:50:30 yes 14:50:37 i'm guessing it's buggy somewhere and your code makes that bug wake 14:53:28 perhaps should it be made optional, doing interactive development with a warning at every macro modification isn't nice 14:54:04 don't pay attention to it 14:54:05 I also get style warnings when redefining print-object 14:54:14 you can disable warnings fyi 14:54:14 it was the same for functions for ages 14:54:22 I don't see that here. 14:54:33 lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 14:55:11 I'm supposed to pay attention to warnings, they're supposed to indicate something about my code 14:55:32 pkhuong: it's since 1.0.46.4 14:55:53 this warning is just as useful as a "increment x by one" comment near a (incf x) form 14:55:55 ah. 14:55:57 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 14:56:17 -!- jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 14:56:21 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:56:31 galdor: yes, they're useful when you're accidentally redefining an existing macro or function 14:56:35 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:56:40 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA241B1.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:57:36 ok, that's right 14:57:52 -!- faux [~user@host-78-79-161-217.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:33 though, slime behaves differently for function redefinitions 14:58:36 style warnings can be differentiated from other warnings and muffled 14:58:49 i'll see what can be done later 14:59:42 jamief [~user@158.223.51.80] has joined #lisp 15:00:48 Xach: it's back (: 15:00:58 Xach: power was turned off; we got a 6-hour notice /-: 15:01:08 antifuchs: uh oh, that means the problem with the lisp.org nameserver is deeper, then 15:01:16 *Xach* wonders if it's just a massive coincidence 15:01:33 Xach: what's the problem? 15:02:13 stuff should be back up since 6:50 PDT, but if you see anything else that's wrong, it probably didn't boot cleanly 15:02:23 we need a chaos monkey 15:02:29 antifuchs: "dig lisp.org ns" times out for me: "no servers could be reached" 15:02:33 chaos monkey? 15:03:27 p_l|backup: a thing that turns off random pieces of the live infrastructure, to make sure everything can still operate in the face of failure 15:03:31 p_l|backup: a term coined by netflix 15:03:51 Xach: it's taking a while, but I'm getting two NS lines 15:04:04 http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/04/working-with-the-chaos-monkey.html 15:04:19 (shamefully, ns1 and ns2.franz.com are on the same address) 15:04:28 antifuchs: does that include earthquakes and tsunamis? 15:04:31 antifuchs: ah, aka (un)scheduled disaster recovery drill? 15:04:51 antifuchs: I get "query refused" when asking both ns1 and ns2 for answers about lisp.org 15:04:55 stassats: I don't know - but since they're distributing their stuff across many data centers, that's likely too 15:05:10 Xach: weird, I don't 15:05:18 antifuchs: from where are you querying? 15:05:32 Bronsa [~brace@host78-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:05:32 ah, works from my colo. 15:05:37 my home line in california, nothing that franz knows about. 15:05:37 not from my desktop here. 15:05:40 hmm. 15:06:10 working now for me everywhere. 15:06:35 cool 15:06:46 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 15:06:52 must have come back up while we were talking (: 15:07:31 antifuchs: 6 hour notice is nice. i'm glad it wasn't like this: https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?threadID=65649&tstart=0 15:07:52 ahahaha 15:08:16 do you want to host your mission-critical life-or-death data at our offices? (: 15:08:29 we're not high enough up to count as "in the cloud" 15:08:35 but 7th floor - it's something! 15:10:17 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.95.19] has joined #lisp 15:10:57 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110323131629]] 15:10:59 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-51.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:11:10 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:12:09 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 15:12:14 Good morning. 15:13:23 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-134-10-166.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 15:14:42 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.95.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 15:16:56 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 15:17:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-190.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:18:36 rlb3 [~rlb@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:08 Ok, I need a Krystof for CMUCL now :) 15:20:12 Xach: Is there a way to copy an entire bucket between S3 accounts, using ZS3? 15:21:29 sykopomp: Sure. 15:22:04 sykopomp: There isn't a single function call that does it, if that's what you mean. You have to construct it from e.g. query-bucket and copy-object. 15:22:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24:12 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:46 Xach: gotcha. I'll give it a shot! :) 15:24:51 thank you 15:25:05 sykopomp: And you'll have to make sure you have permissions to write in the target bucket 15:25:26 (those can also be adjusted with ZS3) 15:26:19 So, there was an argument recently where Torvalds vehemently asserted that reference counting for garbage collection resulted in noticeably faster performance than generational garbage collection for modern architectures. I don't know enough about garbage collection generally. Is there a good primer somewhere, and in general can one specify a strategy in the popular CL implementations? 15:26:40 It made me curious to learn more. 15:26:51 ChibaPet: it might be related to the kobject infrastructure in kernel 15:27:07 I'll try to find the link. Someone mentioned it here a few days ago. 15:27:17 ChibaPet: I would suspect that would depend on cache performance of the allocator, but yes, in general he's correct 15:27:19 ChibaPet: anyway, the world of GC is very... complex 15:27:19 ChibaPet: the linux kernel is different. 15:27:43 ChibaPet: but the performance characteristics of kernels are their own world 15:27:54 ChibaPet: Reference Counting gives a certain behaviour which is desirable in certain conditions 15:28:01 there's such a thing as "fast enough" 15:28:09 heh 15:28:14 -!- ejohnson [~elliott@elliottjohnson.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:28:30 ChibaPet: sometimes, a mixed scheme is used, like in Dis, which uses reference counting with concurrent GC running mostly during I/O 15:28:51 ejohnson [~elliott@elliottjohnson.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:55 I mostly need to learn more because I'm still too rooted in the C world, and GC is this magical thing that eats cycles to do something that seems trivial. I wish to unlearn this. 15:29:30 ChibaPet: go read The GC book... 15:29:36 What's the title? 15:29:54 ChibaPet: oh, the fairy world you're living in where memory and object lifecycle management is a trivial thing. 15:29:55 ChibaPet: do you run programs without an OS? 15:30:00 ChibaPet: If it was trivial, you'd never leak memory in C. 15:30:05 because, you know, it eats cycles 15:30:25 ChibaPet: http://amzn.to/lvkj8I 15:30:29 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:30:31 I have run pretty close to bare metal in the past. And I don't leak memory - other people do. :P 15:30:33 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.95.19] has joined #lisp 15:30:38 cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 15:30:43 ty, adding to wish list, will snag soonish 15:30:44 Yeah, that's a great book. 15:30:48 eek, ninety bucks 15:30:54 If it's good I'll get it. 15:31:12 italic [~italic@cpe-67-242-144-94.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:31:20 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-224-035.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:31 ChibaPet: I suggest you get a library card at your local university, chat the system by registering yourself as a library if needed, then do a raid on their CS books 15:31:36 Woah, I can't imagine I bought it for that much. I was just a poor Amazon developer at the time. 15:32:05 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:08 *p_l|backup* raided it from uni 15:32:09 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:37 Maybe I can find a used copy. I'll consider the library option too, although I'm sadly in the midwest for a bit, where I don't expect to find things like that. 15:32:42 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:32:44 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 15:33:08 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 15:33:44 silenius [~silenus@p549472A8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:04 is using eval frowned upon? in this case storing a list of forms to be executed later 15:34:04 midwest must be such a cool place to be... 15:34:25 italic: why don't you store a list of functions instead? 15:34:28 I hate the midwest more than any other place I've ever encountered. It's terrible. 15:34:45 italic: mainly because it's often unnecessary 15:34:49 italic: store closures :) 15:35:04 ChibaPet: yeah, totally. australia sometimes is like that. 15:35:15 i could put them all in lambdas, but i figured i could save all the function executions 15:35:26 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:35:34 abhinav [~abhinav@122.167.168.20] has joined #lisp 15:35:47 Do they have emissions standards in Australia? I thought you had to go to China for that kind of pollution, until I moved out here. :) Anyway, my kvetching is boring even to me, so I'll pipe down. 15:36:23 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.88] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:36:25 ChibaPet: yeah, here is also a cool place. 15:36:36 italic: ... actually that would be wrong to do 15:37:05 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754272.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:41 -!- ceders [~ceders@adsl-99-16-54-216.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:38:13 -!- aoh [~aki@85.23.168.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:39:27 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:39:28 italic: eval isn't necessarily cheap 15:40:33 if the forms are available, wouldn't a (function ...) more or less get the same result as (eval)? Is it considered equally evil? 15:40:44 sellout1 [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:51 and on sbcl you'll get no difference, since in general it'll wrap your form into (funcall (compile nil '(lambda () form)) 15:41:24 eval rarely makes sense, afaik 15:41:29 (other than repl) 15:41:38 it makes sense when you know what you're doing 15:41:39 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:42:33 flip214: a (function ...) what? 15:42:36 -!- sellout [~Adium@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:42:50 stassats: true. But it's not something I'd grab first :) 15:43:17 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 15:43:37 closures are way cooler, use them 15:44:18 if forms are available at compile-time, then there's no reasonn not to use functions 15:45:34 it just seemed "less complex" to store ((+ 1 2) (* 3 4)), then wrap them up in closures 15:45:50 let over lambda/lambda over let 15:45:51 it only seemed 15:46:21 though, i would store 3 and 7 directly 15:46:35 because it seems less complex to me 15:47:45 i guess a more accurate form would be ((gl:color 1 0 0) (gl:rect 0 0 10 10)) 15:47:46 tychoish_ [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:53 -!- tychoish_ [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:48:21 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:49:34 Can't you still store the results? 15:49:35 with that particular list you could do (loop :for item :in items :do (apply (first item) (rest item))) 15:50:12 if stored as a list of course 15:50:13 Guthur: how about (apply #'funcall item)? 15:50:45 stassats: your superior lispiness trumps me 15:51:51 *stassats* blushes 15:52:15 ChibaPet: it changes the opengl state machine, so it matters when it's called 15:52:23 Okay. 15:53:04 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:53:25 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:53:42 rlb3 [~rlb@2620:0:28a0:2200:608a:e304:7f5f:5f74] has joined #lisp 15:57:30 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 15:59:55 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@143.93.53.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:59:58 micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:38 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:44 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host78-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:03:47 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:06:01 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@141.62.34.24] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:01 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@141.62.34.24] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:34 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has joined #lisp 16:07:01 I knew this and forgot it; in sbcl while stepping how to ask for the highest number of info from the debugger? 16:07:10 something need to be set in advance I think 16:08:20 (declaim (optimize (debug 3))) 16:09:37 -!- sellout1 is now known as sellout 16:09:39 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:10:04 ok thx 16:10:38 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:19 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.95.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:16:41 udzinari` [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:17:38 -!- xpf [~xpf@78.31.74.25] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:18:48 Bronsa [~brace@host78-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:19:05 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:44 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 16:24:46 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:25:01 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:25:02 xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 16:26:12 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@188-195-186-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:26:37 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:29 ikki [~ikki@189.247.145.12] has joined #lisp 16:31:34 the book I'm reading says that a symbol name cannot begin with the #\# char, yet with sbcl it works--is this sbcl-specific? 16:32:05 ezakimak: get a better book. 16:32:22 ezakimak: it's merely slightly more awkward to write in a way that READ will read it. 16:32:35 ok. so short answer the book is wrong 16:32:35 |#| is the syntax for a symbol with a symbol-name of "#" 16:32:46 ezakimak: Maybe there is mitigating context. What book is it? 16:33:30 it's the shapiro book, pre-ansi-standard 16:33:32 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:00 what about beginning with a #\: char? is that allowed? 16:34:25 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 16:34:28 symbol names can contain any character 16:34:30 but! 16:34:41 but : and :: are used as package qualifiers, right? 16:34:41 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:34:44 the reader interprets tokens differently 16:34:58 that's not got much to do with what's allowed or not in symbol names (: 16:35:09 ezakimak: when you talk about what's allowed in a symbol's name, that's different from asking "what happens if the input token starts with X, Y, or Z" 16:35:10 it just affects which symbol names you can get at conveniently (: 16:35:11 so as long as you get the char past the reader it can be in the symbol name? 16:35:32 ezakimak: yes. using | allows a multitude of symbol sins. 16:35:35 which book are you learning from, by the way? 16:35:41 '|If Your Code Does This, I Hate You| 16:35:42 the shapiro book 16:35:44 symbolic gluttony! 16:35:46 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 16:35:49 what about using : 16:35:58 do you do '|pkg|:|symbol-name| ? 16:36:04 or '|pkg:symbol-name| ? 16:36:11 ezakimak: |:::lol:::| is a symbol with a name of ":::lol:::" 16:36:18 the former will resolve |symbol-name| in the |pkg| package 16:36:29 the latter will resolve |pkg:symbol-name| in the current package 16:36:42 so an unescaped : in the name will be taken for the seperator 16:36:57 ezakimak: yes. plus special syntax for keyword symbols. 16:37:09 pnq [~nick@hassium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 16:37:38 are package names treated the same as symbol names? 16:38:03 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ewoofdmxwjncrioz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:38:04 (uppercased, and can be escaped just the same) 16:38:21 all names get that treatment by the reader. for more details, check out the reader algorithm in the hyperspec 16:38:32 ok 16:38:49 it expresses pretty clearly what's going on, and has the added benefit of not being misleading (-: 16:39:14 ezakimak: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_c.htm has some good places to look 16:39:15 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_b.htm has it 16:39:29 *Xach* high-fives antifuchs 16:39:46 (^5 *Xach*) 16:40:03 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@adsl-71-156-15-164.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:40:05 thx again guys 16:40:14 -!- pnq [~nick@hassium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:21 (ahaha, ^5 reads as a symbol, but is printed as |^5| by sbcl) (: 16:40:29 ezakimak: be sure to blog about how nice and helpful we are 16:40:29 pnq [~nick@hassium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 16:40:42 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:43 antifuchs: potential numbers? 16:41:00 i've already spoken highly of you to some friends 16:41:27 stassats: I don't see anything about ^ in 2.3.1 16:41:51 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.167.168.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:10 see 2.3.1.1 16:42:31 ezakimak: http://speely.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/favorite-programming-languages/ for example says "#lisp community is a bunch of assholes." 16:43:38 speely... where do I know this blog from. hrm. 16:43:56 ? no way. 16:44:04 you could say that about #python, but not #lisp 16:44:09 i wonder if any implementation uses ^ and _ syntax for numbers 16:44:26 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 16:44:38 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:45:52 the niceness of #lisp directly depends on the input 16:46:14 I re-wrote my SIR program that was a mess before. http://francoatgrex.tripod.com but something is disturbing me here: (S S0 (setf S (rk4 h #'fs S I))) I didn't think I needed the setf, but without it the results are slightly wrong 16:46:14 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:23 antifuchs: aka mcandre 16:46:48 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:05 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:47:39 ah yeah, there was discussion about this particular trainwreck before 16:48:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-190.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:48:05 i find (car ls) (or even (first ls)) better than (nth 0 ls) 16:48:37 stassats: ok will change. agree. but what do you think of the setf in the do iteration? 16:48:54 it's wrong 16:49:10 but without it, the results are wrong! 16:49:13 there's no need in setf and incf there 16:49:36 because you're not using do*? 16:49:37 I know, but how come changes the result? 16:49:58 *francogrex* smacks himself 16:50:08 lol 16:50:35 (floor X 1) == (floor X) 16:51:32 yep. I had a variable that i could tune instead of the 1 in (floor X 1) that's why I forgot to remove when I fixed it to 1 16:52:45 if you want to shorten your code even more, you can use https://gist.github.com/767289, with it you can write X instead of (floor X) 16:53:24 ok, but it is an improvement over the previous version. feel a little better to present this that the other mess 16:53:29 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 16:53:32 6 : 2 x 3 = 1 or 9 ? 16:53:49 xpf [~xpf@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 16:54:18 francogrex: and i would write that format as (format t "~A~@{ ~6,5F~}~%" (floor tm) (* N S) (* N I) (* N R)) 16:54:55 morphism: what are you talking about? 16:55:17 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:55:22 he's doing ph.d in psycho or so 16:55:32 stassats just a computation, but I am thinking about the processing order 16:55:39 metrics, psycho-metrics 16:56:15 it will be 9 in any sane order 16:56:20 how many of you do recognize or perceive this as such, and how man as such 16:57:03 anyone have some interesting lispy emacs config on github? 16:57:07 stassats what if 2 x 3 is evaluated 1st ? 16:57:20 it's not 16:57:39 well for a computer not 16:57:41 udzinari`: lispy? are there non-lispy emacs-configs? 16:58:07 stassats: looking at yours atm :) 16:58:11 alama_ [~alama@n042176.science.ru.nl] has joined #lisp 16:58:29 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-44-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:33 yay, :P just a little puzzle I saw on my friends status 16:58:45 rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:49 it made me stopped for a while... 16:58:54 stassats: I meant the ones with slime etc.. 16:59:03 so, it's not related to lisp 16:59:17 udzinari`: slime bits are in init_lisp.el in mine config then 16:59:28 -!- alama [~alama@n138232.science.ru.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:59:28 -!- alama_ is now known as alama 16:59:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-190.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:59:55 -!- vlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 17:00:25 stassats: ok. thx for suggestions much appreciated. if I get a raise I will remember you 17:02:22 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 17:02:28 hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:07:41 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:08:14 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 17:08:30 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:08:58 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-58.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:10:11 this "puzzle" comes up now and then and it shows that precedence rules are confusing. 17:10:26 so it is related to lisp in a way. 17:10:46 xale, you got me :P 17:11:01 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:11:02 I was thinking about that 17:11:21 if it'sn't from right to left, but in the reverse order 17:11:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-51.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:11:40 then it should be 1, not 9 17:12:18 division and multiplication aren't confusing, combining multiplication and addition is confusing 17:12:45 addiplication 17:13:28 it's ok 17:13:36 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:13:52 div and mul are always in higher priority than add and sub 17:14:04 and they have the same priority 17:14:09 <|3b|> not 'always' 17:14:18 but, in some languages there are no priorities 17:14:50 it must have some bugs in that kind of language 17:14:51 e.g. in smalltalk 5 + 4 * 3 => 27 17:15:03 =) nice 17:15:08 while it's 17 in python 17:15:15 that's why I don't mind to see the world a new 17:16:26 the same reason why I confused with that puzzle 17:16:31 -!- alama [~alama@n042176.science.ru.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:35 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-130.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:50 and '5' + 4 * 3 is "512" in javascript (-: 17:16:52 alama [~alama@n138232.science.ru.nl] has joined #lisp 17:17:23 antifuchs: we were talking about sane ways! 17:17:25 (although 5 + '4' * 3 is 17) (; 17:17:28 this could be various interesting possibilities 17:18:14 forget the old ways, they are creating new one =) 17:18:27 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:18:48 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-130.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:18:49 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 17:19:31 lisp has the best way, it's unambiguous, convenient, and consistent with other operators 17:19:33 -!- Vejeta [~user@unaffiliated/vejeta] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:10 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-31-42.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:20:26 stassats, totally agreed I have this thinking when I saw exp too 17:20:41 *expr 17:21:01 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has left #lisp 17:21:10 smalltalk is consistent too, but it may be confusing because it does look like regular math notation, but doesn't behave like one 17:21:17 evening everyone 17:24:13 bknr.datastore is awesome. It should be advertised more. 17:24:46 alama_ [~alama@n042176.science.ru.nl] has joined #lisp 17:24:55 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:24:55 I had a buggy implementation of half of it in one of the projects. T_T 17:25:43 naryl: blog about it! 17:25:44 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 17:25:47 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:25:49 nah, making your own persistence is fun 17:25:59 naryl: H4ns gave quite a nice talk about it in boston 17:26:09 when using somethng like nconc, which modifies it's arg, is it better style to avoid a setf or (setf x (nconc x y)) ? 17:26:13 lacedaemon [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 17:26:14 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 17:26:22 for a while it was hard to install, but that was PQ 17:26:54 BQ? 17:27:11 -!- alama [~alama@n138232.science.ru.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:27:11 -!- alama_ is now known as alama 17:27:13 I don't have a blog. But lisper.ru is accepting articles. 17:27:15 italic: use the setf. nconc won't modify X's variable binding if it's NIL 17:27:25 Bike [~arm@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 17:27:26 italic: IIRC documentation says you should setf. 17:27:51 better yet, don't append stuff to the end of a list 17:28:25 Xach: this is the year 1 AX (-: 17:28:31 -!- sylecn [~sylecn@cpe-70-112-211-195.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Hmmm?] 17:28:32 stassats: cons and reverse later? 17:28:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-12-235.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:28:49 use loop's collect? 17:29:09 or nconcing (-: 17:29:16 (which is exactly the same, boo) 17:29:53 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [SeaMonkey 2.2a1pre/20110424190038]] 17:29:56 antifuchs: well, it's better if you do that repetitively 17:30:33 suppose it is... also, loop can keep a reference to the last element as in collect 17:30:44 that's what i meant 17:30:51 ah (: 17:30:53 right then (: 17:31:24 you'd need to walk the nconcing list still, but not the whole accumulating list all the time 17:32:14 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 17:33:17 -!- galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:46 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-58.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:36:03 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:36:03 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-105-75.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:36:09 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:36:45 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@82.143.220.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:36:51 sacho [~sacho@79-100-170-20.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 17:38:04 -!- udzinari` [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: udzinari`] 17:38:16 I like to create relatively small systems, and then string them togeather to build a larger one. Would it be wise to export symbols belonging to other packages? 17:38:22 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-58.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:38:31 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:41:11 *jtza8* thinks, "Well, at least no-one thought it was a terrible idea." 17:41:23 jtza8: that works, and is usually a nice way of making an external and internal-facing api 17:41:34 but keep in mind that if you rename things, you'll have to change more than one package definition 17:41:39 which can be annoying 17:41:52 -!- alama [~alama@n042176.science.ru.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:42:08 alama [~alama@n042176.science.ru.nl] has joined #lisp 17:43:03 antifuchs: It seems worth it this time. Thanks. (: 17:44:06 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 17:44:41 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.205.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:45:10 fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.187.91] has joined #lisp 17:45:48 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 17:46:14 -!- kirkwood [~user@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:47:39 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:48:22 billitch [~billitch@78.250.204.137] has joined #lisp 17:49:41 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 17:51:16 Shaftoe [~Moe111@modemcable109.28-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:51:58 -!- alama [~alama@n042176.science.ru.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:04 is there some sort of package out there that does html form (or any user input) validation in a structured way? 17:52:48 Shaftoe: yes, some. 17:53:03 alama [~alama@131.174.42.176] has joined #lisp 17:53:05 pjb: great. what's the name? 17:54:15 http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=f9be70cc89df0d1f41f15e394b8acf5a63ad9f67&hb=7c3d4719bbaa534b42c8882a17c7dc983acfb7ab&f=common-lisp/html-generator/html-generators-in-lisp.txt 17:54:34 Oh, you need validation of HTML. 17:54:42 no, not validation of HTML 17:54:56 just validation of input data (e.g. required field, numeric field) 17:55:15 I'm most likely going to tie it in to jquery.validation.js, but was wondering if it's been done. 17:55:20 This is rather implementation dependant. 17:55:34 UncommonWeb is able to validate field from their declaration. 17:56:09 ah. interesting. I'll have to see how it's doing that. Toa nswer: I'm not expecting to be able to use the package as is, but I'd like to see what's been done to see if there's good ideas 17:57:05 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:58:26 -!- alama [~alama@131.174.42.176] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:46 alama [~alama@n042176.science.ru.nl] has joined #lisp 17:59:44 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:59:56 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:03:10 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:03:23 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@180.184.25.64] has quit [Quit: TheRealLongshot] 18:03:52 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@193.157.203.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:04:09 TheRealLongshot_ [~longshot@180.184.25.64] has joined #lisp 18:04:36 -!- alama [~alama@n042176.science.ru.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:50 alama [~alama@131.174.42.176] has joined #lisp 18:08:18 -!- TheRealLongshot_ [~longshot@180.184.25.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:08:25 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@modemcable109.28-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 18:08:51 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@180.184.25.64] has joined #lisp 18:10:05 -!- alama [~alama@131.174.42.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:16 hah. i think i just used restart-frame for the first time in anger 18:10:23 alama [~alama@n138232.science.ru.nl] has joined #lisp 18:10:28 maybe i should use high debug settings more often 18:13:49 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:13:50 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:14:17 i put (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 2) into the config file and restart frames all the time 18:14:42 HG` [~HG@p5DC048BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:44 Vampire0 [vampire@jEdit/Vampire] has joined #lisp 18:18:20 Hi there, anyone around that is in charge of lisppaste? 18:18:30 #jEdit got removed from the list of available channels :-( 18:22:36 ? 18:22:41 oh, i see what you mean 18:24:07 antifuchs: ... I wrote a macro, so now there's nothing to maintain by hand. 18:24:13 orivej [~orivej@host-92-146-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 18:24:15 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.103.158] has joined #lisp 18:24:17 cool (: 18:26:19 *Xach* puts together http://xach.com/lisp/linedit-screencast.gif 18:26:34 Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-203-87.uio.no] has joined #lisp 18:27:37 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@174.3.105.143] has joined #lisp 18:27:46 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@174.3.105.143] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:27:55 hello 18:28:10 how can i retrieve the doc tring from the body of a function? 18:28:37 string 18:29:31 mcstar: the DOCUMENTATION generic function can do that, sometimes. 18:29:44 mcstar: it's not exactly "retrieving it from the body of a function", though. 18:30:14 (documentation ) says too few arguments 18:30:20 (documentation 'the-function-name 'function) 18:31:02 mcstar: You do have to read about DOCUMENTATION a little bit to understand how it works. 18:31:25 HG`` [~HG@p579F700B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:39 i guess, it still comlains :) 18:32:00 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.135.172] has joined #lisp 18:32:18 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-203-87.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:32:33 lanthan [~ze@p54B7FA90.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:34 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7FA90.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:33:39 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC048BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:34:02 What did you write, and what happened? 18:34:29 (documentation 'f 'f) 18:34:31 gave nil 18:34:39 carlocci [~nes@93.37.204.17] has joined #lisp 18:34:46 why the second argument is 'f? 18:34:47 im reading clhs now 18:34:54 mcstar: What made you think 'f was acceptable as the second argument to DOCUMENTATION? 18:34:57 the 'function thing is to tell documentation to look at the function docstring 18:35:04 lanthan [~ze@p54B7FA90.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:16 oh i see 18:35:17 there are many others that could apply, so you have to disambiguate 18:35:25 hmm, is there a searchable form of the hyperspec? 18:35:37 you could also use (documentation #'the-function t) 18:35:37 i mean, one i can use as a quickkey in my address bar 18:35:47 Landr: l1sp.org! 18:35:57 i use ,h 18:35:58 ...which will instruct documentation to use the docstring attached to the object. 18:35:59 (defmethod documentation (x (type (eql 'f))) (documentation x 'function)) 18:36:01 in slimv 18:36:02 coo! thanks 18:36:10 c|mell [~cmell@92.36.136.15] has joined #lisp 18:36:38 Landr: i think http://xach.com/clhs is a little easier to use as a quick key. 18:37:00 bookmarked :) 18:37:05 *stassats* waits for IncreduLisp 18:37:21 tron3k retired :( 18:37:34 oh Xach, what don't you do <3 18:37:48 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:50 Suffer fools gladly? 18:37:53 Wait, I do that, too. 18:37:57 :p 18:38:06 ah well, another bit of laziness gained 18:38:52 soon i shall just shout "emacs, 'the hell is that" while lazily gesturing towards something, taking a swig. And it'll look it up for me and explain it in a calm and soothing voice 18:38:55 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:39:34 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 18:40:02 Xach: what do you use to make those screencasts? 18:40:16 RidicuLISP is a better name indeed 18:40:32 pjb: byzanz-record 18:40:39 pjb: and some manual cleanup in GIMP 18:40:56 *Xach* is not hard core enough to clean up with skippy yet 18:41:08 xirie [~eirikmik@ti0073a340-dhcp1202.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:41:10 couldn't you write a terminal emulator in cl with skippy output? 18:41:32 paul0 [~user@187.112.66.124] has joined #lisp 18:41:53 Xach: looks nice. Thanks. 18:42:27 stassats: no need - i'll just wait for someone to write a Lisp Machine terminal in Common Lisp, then port the backend to skippy 18:42:46 why dont built-in macros/function have documentation? 18:42:57 mcstar: Are you using CLISP? 18:42:59 Xach: nice gif screencast about linedit :) 18:43:01 aha 18:43:05 mcstar: the implementation did now document them in docstrings. 18:43:06 mcstar: because this implementation is optimized for space. 18:43:21 You might want to exploit manuels and the specification. 18:43:21 so in sbcl theyre there? 18:43:39 mcstar: notice that clisp describe will link you to clhs and the implementation notes. Use describe instead. 18:43:41 mcstar: usually not. The CLHS is more useful and authorirative. 18:43:45 *authoritative. 18:43:55 ok 18:43:56 mcstar: (documentation 'car 'function) => "Return the 1st object in a list." 18:44:09 that's SBCL. hmm, that wording is a little ugly. 18:44:33 confirmed :) 18:45:23 Xach: those gif screencasts are great :D 18:45:43 lemonodor [~lemonodor@66.102.14.9] has joined #lisp 18:45:44 (documentation 'caaddr 'function) => "Return the car of the caddr of a list." ... so helpful. 18:45:50 what is the first element of NIL? 18:46:00 nil? 18:46:03 rme: I'd have said the caar of the cddr. 18:46:22 abeaumont: thanks. i remember i never wanted to try SLIME from just reading about it, or seeing screenshots. it really helped to see it in motion. maybe these can do the same for someone. 18:46:26 thats different 18:46:30 mcstar: yes, in cl (car nil) = (cdr nil) = nil 18:46:51 but NIL is an empty list, how can it have any elements? 18:46:56 ILISP 4 life 18:47:01 its false 18:47:47 lichtblau: the serialize-schema docs say "Note that the schema represented in memory has gone through simplification as is textually different from the original XML document." I find the second part of that statement to be true, but it's certainly not simpler! 18:47:47 (car (caddr l) ) not equal to (caar (cddr l)) 18:48:02 Xach: sure, they help me at least, little snippets in motion are cool :) 18:48:11 lichtblau: oh, and the "as" should be changed to "and" 18:48:13 mcstar: show me a l for which it's not equal! 18:48:26 ok 18:48:28 wait 18:49:25 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:50:33 I seem to be leaking large simple-array-unsigned-byte-64 objects, according to (room), though I'm not explicitly making arrays of (unsigned-byte 64). Which other common types might be backed by that storage? (sbcl) 18:50:37 someone should screen an HD video of slime and friends with a good voice over and nice background music 18:50:53 "Hello, Joe" "Hello, Mike" ;) 18:51:02 (if you've seen the Erlang movie) 18:51:03 stassats: let's write a script, and hire an actress. 18:51:40 Phoodus: hahahaha 18:52:10 Phoodus: but what are you doing? 18:52:34 trying to find a memory leak in a large server project :-/ 18:53:07 i meant what you're doing except for not allocating ub-64 arrays 18:53:08 there were a pile of unsigned-byte-8 arrays hanging around, because my IO thread was crashing and eating the error reports, so it couldn't keep up 18:53:26 but those are gone now after that fix, but these 64-bit ones are still leaking somewhere 18:53:33 but yeah, well-prepared screen casts can be very helpful for people 18:55:23 stassats: really, I'm just poking for some sort of "Oh, strings are sometimes backed by 64-bit arrays" or some nibble like that to try to find an angle on this 18:55:24 Phoodus: do you use hash-tables? 18:55:26 yes 18:55:28 ah 18:55:33 that could be a source of arrays 18:55:40 as I really don't use them much in my own code 18:55:51 here you go 18:55:54 (them = arrays) 18:55:55 yes, thank yo 18:55:57 +u 18:56:27 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:56:33 -!- paul0 [~user@187.112.66.124] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:53 paul0 [~user@187.112.66.124] has joined #lisp 18:57:10 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: I'll see you on the dark side of the moon] 18:57:54 is there a way to refresh the slime inspector view? 18:58:00 g 18:58:32 thanks 18:58:45 remember it, it's a common emacs binding for updating things 19:00:10 what about when i drill down a slot, is there a keybinding to bring me back? 19:00:21 l 19:00:54 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:01:31 see C-h m for all the bindings 19:01:50 -!- HG`` [~HG@p579F700B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:01:53 what's safe to call from within sb-vm::map-allocated-objects? I've hung lisp quite often with that, trying to isolate & return objects 19:02:29 a better a question would be what's safe to do during without-gcing 19:02:35 Phoodus: don't allocate. 19:02:53 because map-allocated-objects uses without-gcing 19:02:59 so (format t ...) is out of the question 19:03:07 as well as consing up a list of results? 19:03:14 don't call anything that takes a lock, unless that lock is always grabbed while in without-gcing 19:03:38 (or run single-threaded) 19:03:50 lots of threads running, unfortunately 19:04:02 i'd be interested in some tool which could operate on a dead image 19:04:08 but I think comparisons and setf'ing a lexical return value will help 19:04:30 if you're hanging, it's probably a deadlock due to inconsistent without-gcing around lock acquisition 19:04:37 yeah, sound slik eit 19:04:47 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 19:04:59 cpu drops to 0% when that happens 19:05:03 *stassats* wonders how does slik eit sound 19:05:40 my space bar is slightly out of phase 19:06:08 need to invert the polarity on my tachyon pulse beam reflector dish array 19:08:49 argh, hung it with hash-table-p. There goes a 300MB overnight leaked state 19:09:51 gglitch [~user@216-80-93-163.c3-0.grn-ubr1.chi-grn.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:10:54 -!- gglitch [~user@216-80-93-163.c3-0.grn-ubr1.chi-grn.il.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 19:11:51 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:12:23 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@82.143.220.223] has joined #lisp 19:12:51 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 19:13:20 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-18.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:14:50 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.248.64] has joined #lisp 19:15:45 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:15:50 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@2620:0:28a0:2200:608a:e304:7f5f:5f74] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:16:14 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:16:15 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-gigtrtqllqewayhe] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:16:31 slyrus: MORE SIMPLIFICATION! 19:17:12 Phoodus: you could save an image first, so that you can restart again 19:17:46 pjb: i misinterpreted the a|add aa|dd thingy, in a purely functional manner there cant be any difference 19:17:47 (simplification is a technical term in RELAX NG) 19:17:58 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:18:12 pjb: and then i thought about it, and couldnt find a way to make them non-equivalent 19:18:17 it's a step that removes syntactical sugar 19:18:22 short of redifining car,cdr :) 19:19:06 what i wanted to say in the first place is u cant mix up letters 19:19:16 but clearly thats not the case here 19:19:49 U also can't omit letters. 19:22:09 -!- c|mell [~cmell@92.36.136.15] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:22:42 who's U? 19:22:46 Vejeta [~user@unaffiliated/vejeta] has joined #lisp 19:23:47 -!- pnq [~nick@hassium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:25:54 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has joined #lisp 19:29:04 It's short for Underspace I think. Refers to Neal Asher's Polity universe. 19:29:04 -!- timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:17 hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:29:22 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 19:29:31 i think it's Lord You 19:29:55 or Lord Yu 19:30:00 not sure of the spelling 19:30:41 agumonkey [~agumonkey@64.158.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:53 stassats: good point; I don't use that often except buried in my build script code 19:32:39 dfox [~dfox@94.113.17.246] has joined #lisp 19:33:49 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:58 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 19:34:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-190.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:36:02 timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 19:36:15 hey, what's the most efficient data structure that can work like a dictionary in CL ? 19:36:40 depends on the keys and operations. hash tables tend to be decent all around. 19:37:22 myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 19:38:09 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:38:30 pnq [~nick@host-176.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 19:39:04 I want something that could be access outside 19:39:17 like :me should return 1 19:39:25 morphism: unlss you explicitly need to implement a tree, hashtable is best choice 19:39:44 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:40:00 must I write a function to take/find the key each time I want to use it ? 19:40:47 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:05 anyone know a .emacs settings for turning on slime inspector "group slots by inheritence" by default? 19:41:07 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-242-70.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:41:09 -!- Guthur [c0c1f510@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.16] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:41:14 -!- timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:26 Guthur [~Guthur@host81-131-242-39.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:42 slyrus: long story short, the serializer is obviously crap 19:42:14 italic: put (defparameter *inspector-slots-default-grouping* :inheritence) in your ~/.swank.lisp 19:42:35 (assuming that your .swank.lisp has (in-package :swank)) 19:44:24 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-31-42.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:45:09 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 19:45:17 I'm searching the responsible person for http://paste.lisp.org 19:45:44 Vampire0: for what reason ? 19:46:03 #jEdit vanished from the list of channels :-( 19:46:12 I want it back on 19:46:38 And put #abcl in there while you're at it... ;) 19:48:19 #jEdit was supported for many years and I just discovered it was removed 19:48:51 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-61-206.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:49:14 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-61-206.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 19:51:12 can you help me fe[nl]ix? 19:51:22 stassats: thanks 19:51:25 -!- Bike [~arm@69.166.35.237] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:51:48 Vampire0, easyE: paste.lisp.org says to email with requests 19:51:58 Vampire0: Probably better to do that than to keep asking here 19:52:03 "tanks" 19:52:10 where 19:52:20 Or is that ... 19:52:23 *easyE* tanks. 19:52:27 tanks in #lisp 19:52:45 Yeah, just seen it. But hey, "keep asking" is a bit much, I just asked two times. :-P 19:53:48 #lisp is tough 19:53:55 thats why we have tanks 19:55:25 -!- xirie [~eirikmik@ti0073a340-dhcp1202.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: xirie] 19:56:03 Methinks you must sacrifice something to the #lisp pastebot... 19:57:07 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:57:57 Perhaps a cockatrice? 19:58:23 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:30 Guthur: think tanks? 19:58:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-190.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:59:13 i.e. something to turn the cynical stone hearts of Ethan Brand. 19:59:20 asd 19:59:43 wow, interesting :) 20:00:51 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 20:01:04 what was that ? 20:01:33 heavy pinky finger on the ctrl key. 20:01:38 asd\f\f\f\f 20:05:37 -!- Vampire0 [vampire@jEdit/Vampire] has left #lisp 20:07:07 francogrex [~user@109.130.45.240] has joined #lisp 20:07:22 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-18.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:08:32 -!- sellout [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:09:05 can anyone send a good example of hashtable ? 20:09:27 rumina [~rumina@88.148.219.26] has joined #lisp 20:10:02 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:17 morphism: (make-hash-table) returns a great hash table. 20:10:42 rudybot:(make-hash-table) 20:10:59 LoL, rudybot is dead ? 20:11:06 There is no bot by that name here. 20:12:25 fsbot: 20:12:31 no ? 20:12:37 BountyX [~erhan@69.54.63.114] has joined #lisp 20:12:41 fsbot is in #emacs. 20:12:51 rudybot is in #scheme only ? 20:12:58 morphism: Where do you think you are? 20:13:12 is there any bot in #lisp ? 20:13:26 morphism: 73% of the clients here are botsw 20:13:34 *morphism* thought the bot is across all channel on this server ) 20:13:44 morphism: What are you trying to do? There is no bot that evaluates random CL code here. 20:13:55 ok, i got it 20:13:58 =.= 20:14:37 will make mine sometimes 20:14:45 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:15:06 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-167-21.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-171-181.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:20 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:15:38 Posterdati [~tapioca@87.10.226.2] has joined #lisp 20:17:50 I suppose I know the answer to the question, but does CL have a "split" function for strings? 20:18:07 subseq? 20:18:17 check out split-sequence 20:18:19 it's an add-on 20:18:21 dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has joined #lisp 20:18:26 (quicklisp has it) 20:18:36 Thanks antifuchs. 20:18:39 added benefit: it also splits lists and regular vectors) 20:19:04 Mwhahaha :P 20:19:04 cl-ppcre will also split things up by regex. 20:19:10 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-130.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:19 well, strings. I dunno about lists. 20:19:21 Fade: which is usually overfkill ;) 20:19:28 overkill also 20:19:34 :) 20:19:42 Fade: yeah - cl-ppcre is kinda fixated on char-specialized arrays (: 20:19:54 which makes perfect sense. 20:20:02 I didn't know split-sequence would split lists. 20:20:05 I think I tried using regexes on other objects (using the s-regex syntax). that didn't work very well 20:20:16 it splits sequences! 20:20:31 it'll split anything that's one-dimensional (: 20:20:36 hey, that also makes sense. truth in advertising! 20:20:43 I use tokenize function: tokenize (sequence &key delimiters terminators punctuation (escapes "\\") multi-escapes whitespace (defaults '()) start end key test) ... 20:20:45 exactly ((: 20:21:25 will it split hairs? 20:21:25 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.204.137] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:02 stassats: after a patch, maybe. (: 20:22:53 after rinsing, maybe 20:23:14 -!- dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has left #lisp 20:24:46 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:25:25 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-224-035.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:48 alderz [~alderz@172.Red-88-10-156.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:30 lichtblau: OK. Is it likely to be easy to fix? 20:26:41 mbrezu` [~user@178.156.179.144] has joined #lisp 20:26:44 *slyrus* figures he needs to read up on this so-called simplification 20:28:03 surpised to see tokenize also splits lists: (tokenize (list 1 2 5 4 5 4 7) :delimiters (list 5)) -> ((1 2) (4) (4 7)) 20:30:07 what is this tokenize of which you speak? 20:33:07 i'm guessing "if the next item is 5, end the list and start a new one" 20:33:25 Fade: here: http://francoatgrex.tripod.com 20:33:42 similar to "if the next character is a whitespace or some character that can not be part of a valid token, we've reached the end of the token 20:33:46 hell's bells... 20:33:50 that's some function. 20:34:00 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host78-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:34:07 what is this, a function for ants? 20:34:08 it's in my rc init file 20:34:13 (split-sequence:split-sequence 5 (list 1 2 5 4 5 4 7)) 20:34:14 it needs to be... at least three times bigger than this! 20:34:28 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-104-56.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:25 -!- mbrezu` [~user@178.156.179.144] has left #lisp 20:35:32 macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.67.93] has joined #lisp 20:35:45 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7FA90.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:35:45 it's as good as any split, I don't think ppcre or spli sequence is smaller 20:35:53 when I compile that function and call it as per your example above, it returns NIL 20:35:56 Is there any way to get SBCL to give me more details about a "deleting unreachable code" note? 20:36:32 Soulman [~knute@80.202.238.250] has joined #lisp 20:36:57 that's odd, and (TOKENIZE "test, 1 2 3" :DELIMITERS #\,) ? 20:37:30 gigamonkey: with the current structure, not really. 20:37:31 gigamonkey: I'd like to know that too. Searching... 20:37:38 hmm 20:37:39 also NIL 20:37:42 *Landr* needs a lisp wallpaper 20:37:46 The propagation framework isn't exactly geared toward providing explanations. 20:38:03 Fade: works fine for me both on ecl and sbcl! 20:38:04 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:36 *francogrex* wonders: did i copy/paste with errors? checking 20:39:15 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:39:31 gigamonkey: the thing it output to standard out is the details 20:39:46 -!- sacho [~sacho@79-100-170-20.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:39:58 manual has information on how to read that 20:40:11 Fade: what implementation? 20:40:25 it may be that slime unhelpfully hides some of that stuff 20:41:03 but if you mean details like "why is it unreachable", not really 20:41:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-190.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:42:03 *variablename* is only a naming convention for not lexical variables? 20:42:36 sbcl 1.0.47.30 20:43:02 mcstar: for special variables 20:43:09 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-58.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:43:35 special as in? i only see them with defvar,defparameter 20:43:56 defvar/defparameter expand to (declaim (special *foo*)) 20:44:00 I'm using 1.0.45 but still that shouldn't explain the difference 20:44:15 mcstar: "special variable" is a term used in the cl standard 20:44:24 billitch [~billitch@78.250.204.137] has joined #lisp 20:44:28 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 20:44:43 so special provides dynamic scoping instead of lexical? 20:44:47 mcstar: yeah 20:44:48 right? 20:44:49 ok 20:44:58 but ** is only a convention 20:45:06 yes 20:45:09 ty 20:45:21 and you should stick to it 20:45:22 the *s are there to remind people that the variable will not necessarily have its lexical value 20:45:32 or the one they would otherwise expect (: 20:45:50 and +foo+ is conventionally used for defconstant 20:45:51 i wonder why isnt one * enough 20:45:58 like :var 20:46:07 : is a package separator 20:46:08 something* means something else (: 20:46:09 antifuchs: actually it's to guard against the persuasiveness of specials 20:46:12 earmuffs are there so that you don't accidentally name your local variable with the same name and then wonder why it's not working 20:46:12 Bike [~arm_of_th@71-38-158-155.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:13 * is part of the variable name 20:46:14 I'd say 20:46:16 tcr: that, too! ((: 20:46:18 erm, symbol name 20:46:41 tcr: you mean pervasiveness ? 20:46:49 indeed so :-) 20:47:06 *vote-for-pedro* ? 20:47:43 will he save lisp? 20:48:09 mcstar: :test is not a convention, but a mechanism built into CL, if that's what you were asking. 20:48:13 what is this def/parameter/variable/constant thing is called if i want to look it up? 20:48:15 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:48:21 it interns the name following : in the KEYWORD package. 20:48:43 (and keywords have some unique properties) 20:49:03 holy boop 20:49:08 oh yes, so testing is possible through different packages 20:49:19 clisp actually does parenthesis-matching in strings even when they're split? 20:49:34 that is some awesome parsing 20:49:44 nikodemus: I'm reading through the manual, but I can't seem to find any readers or slots. Specifically for CODE-DELETION-NOTE. 20:50:02 that mechanism lets you refer to keywords from any package conveniently. it's what makes keyword arguments to functions useful. 20:50:04 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has joined #lisp 20:50:07 pirxs [~pirx@195.225.69.9] has joined #lisp 20:50:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:50:52 (I mentioned :test only because it's a keyword that is used very often in standard functions) 20:51:03 how is it that *package* is defined in every package? is that automatic? 20:51:18 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:20 nm. it's not. 20:51:24 it's not (-: 20:51:25 only in cl and cl-user 20:51:32 it's always the variable cl:*package* 20:51:32 ezakimak: *package* isn't defined in packages; it's a special variable. 20:51:36 is it in both for convenience? 20:51:50 your package may be USE-ing the cl package 20:51:54 special vars are not partitioned per package? 20:51:56 ezakimak: they're the same symbol. 20:51:57 which makes the symbol show up 20:51:58 er interned 20:52:00 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@97.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:15 variable names are treated exactly the same as other symbols 20:52:16 cl-user is specified to use CL 20:52:19 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:52:57 so if I use CL, and don't qualify the name I get the cl's value, but if I do qualify I'm asking for a *package* in my package? 20:53:02 (which doesn't exist) 20:53:17 i think I got it 20:53:30 wait, no 20:53:41 i have cl, cl-user, and test packages 20:53:54 both cl-user and test use cl 20:54:06 the reader will always look at cl:*package* to figure out the current package 20:54:15 but cl-user:*package* and cl:*package* and *package* work, but test:*package* is empty 20:54:29 when it reads a token that is an unqualified symbol, it will intern that string in the current package 20:54:32 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:54:39 cl-user:*package* shouldn't work 20:54:48 it doesn't need to refer to anything inside your current package. 20:55:09 cl-user::*package* yields: # 20:55:35 you used one colon the first time 20:55:38 cl-user:*package* errors 20:55:48 that's right 20:56:15 because :: asks for the internal symbol (interned via using cl) ? 20:56:23 whereas : asks for an external which doesn't exist? 20:56:31 right. 20:56:49 what if cl-user exported *package*, would that make cl-user:*package* then also work? 20:56:55 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has left #lisp 20:57:01 it's not interned, it's inherited 20:57:11 so, not the same 20:57:27 yet the qualifier works the same way? 20:57:29 ezakimak: yes, it would 20:57:41 ok 20:58:27 with :: you can access any accessible symbols 20:58:56 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:59:31 is there a way to see a list of every place a symbol has been interned? 20:59:56 eg, (describe '*package*) only mentions that it comes from cl, not that it's been inherited in cl-user or test 21:00:05 why do you need that? 21:00:43 would make it more obvious 21:00:44 ezakimak: you could figure it out with PACKAGED-USED-BY-LIST 21:00:49 ok 21:01:08 But there are going to be a lot of packages that use COMMON-LISP 21:01:10 ezakimak: would make what more obvious? 21:01:42 i can't see what useful information can you get by knowing in which packages a symbol is accessible 21:01:49 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.45.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:00 if when I use (describe '*package*) it says that it's external of cl, but interned into cl-user and test as well 21:02:52 i guess it's 6s--cause I can always describe a symbol in each package I'm in to see which one it really is 21:03:34 amb007 [~a_bakic@97.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:09 funny. I just noticed that whichever lisp the book used actually did what I'm asking 21:05:41 "Symbol FRANK is in USER package.\n It is also interned in package TEST" 21:06:14 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:45 *stassats* can't fathom the utility of such information 21:07:49 OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 21:07:49 -!- OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Client Quit] 21:07:53 -!- splittist [~splittist@82.123.38.245] has quit [Quit: splittist] 21:07:56 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.204.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:36 stassats: because... it's nice to know if you can use a symbol or not? 21:09:29 and perhaps help you figure out you're using the wrong one? 21:09:57 ezakimak: note you can also do (eql 'test:foo 'another-package:foo) 21:10:03 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:29 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:33 yes, I've learned that. 21:10:53 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:10 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.252] has joined #lisp 21:11:20 I think it could be handy to have a helper that given 'foo would list the set of unique foo's and which one is interned where 21:11:43 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:51 maybe I'll use that as an excercise when I get far enough along 21:11:59 setmeaway [jnoos43@119.201.52.252] has joined #lisp 21:12:27 Xach: btw, with gif screencasts and a bit of gif-editing fu, you can easily correct typos! (: 21:12:44 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 21:12:48 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:13:08 francogrex [~user@109.130.45.240] has joined #lisp 21:13:39 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:46 stalinist typo correction. 21:13:56 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:14:03 Fade: I tried the tokenize function on 3 different implementations, 2 systems (win and linux) bothe work fine. maybe something wrong on your side 21:14:05 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 21:14:05 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 21:14:05 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 21:14:42 maybe. I don't have time to play with it atm. 21:14:42 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:14:45 I'll look at it later. 21:14:49 is there a way to test for whether a symbol is interned in a package without causing it to be interned? 21:14:59 put it up at github. :) 21:15:06 srsly, tripod? 21:15:58 ezakimak: find-symbol 21:16:06 thx 21:17:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:17:50 -!- dfox [~dfox@94.113.17.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:19:56 well, tripod is rubbish I know but it's easy because also if i want to blog and post articles i can do it on te sae page... 21:21:53 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:36 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.45.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:48 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:50 slyrus: do you use DEFINE-EASY-HANDLER in Hunchentoot? 21:26:53 sort of... 21:27:02 how can a variable be both undefined and have a value? 21:27:19 I made an easy-handler like thing for my hunchentoot-vhost stuff and use that, but the recent changes broke all of that 21:27:20 oh. undefined meaning I didn't "defvar" it? 21:27:32 slyrus: various fixes pushed 21:27:47 slyrus: so you didn't actually use the built-in one? 21:27:53 ezakimak: it can be established with LET 21:28:08 i used setf at the top level on it 21:28:10 so I made some extensions to hunchentoot (a "dispatcher" and "socket-connector" classes) such that I could get things working again 21:28:19 at least a roundtrip works now, i.e. (parse-schema (serialize-schema x (cxml:make-string-sink))) returns something. 21:28:23 gigamonkey: I have certainly done so in the past 21:28:32 I can't remember if I'm doing so now. 21:28:36 lichtblau: thanks again! 21:28:44 gigamonkey: why? 21:28:54 Trying to figure out whether it's worth spending the time to grok them. 21:28:56 (not that serializing that again would actually give the same string...) 21:29:07 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-134-10-166.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:12 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 21:29:12 (oh, also, h4ns didn't like my changes, so their not in the repo :( ) 21:29:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:30:54 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 21:31:27 Blkt`` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-239-24.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 21:31:34 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:35:01 -!- Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-242-70.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:37:07 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.187.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:37:08 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-104-56.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:40 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-193-133.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:48 does multiple-values-bind behave similar to let? 21:42:48 no 21:43:08 but what similarities did you mean? 21:43:22 ezakimak: yes, it does. 21:43:34 -!- alderz [~alderz@172.Red-88-10-156.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:43:35 it creates new variables which can be used in a new scope 21:43:37 It creates lexical bindings. 21:43:56 There's also multiple-values-setq similar to setq. 21:43:58 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.103.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:44:07 pjb: it creates any bindings 21:44:20 Yes. 21:44:35 ok. so need for an extra let 21:45:27 ah, I see that "simplification" isn't really consist with the usual meaning of that term 21:46:58 ok, so if i am in a let I can use that to work w/those variables rather than create new ones that shadow 21:47:50 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-125-112.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:42 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-73-31.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:49:11 udzinari` [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:50:44 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-92-76.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:51:55 -!- udzinari` [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 21:52:07 udzinari` [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:54:27 cesarbp_ [~chatzilla@189.247.135.172] has joined #lisp 21:54:28 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.135.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:28 -!- cesarbp_ is now known as cesarbp 21:55:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:57:12 SBCL likes complaining about code so much, it should warn about superfluous LET*'s 21:58:29 but some may actually like it! 21:58:52 STYLE-WARNING: Code is too immaculate. 21:59:03 Bugs inserted out of spite. 21:59:25 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:00:07 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:01:07 stassats: that's never stopped SBCL before. 22:01:20 can someone look at my function? 22:01:30 http://paste.lisp.org/+2LV7 22:02:04 it's close, but for some reason doesn't work 22:02:47 antifuchs, funny. could be applicable to many other languages as well 22:02:51 ezakimak: it doesn't modify the RET variable 22:03:04 push the thing in there 22:03:07 ah, I need to setf ret (cons ... 22:03:33 right - also, I recommend using WHEN if your IF has only one branch (: 22:03:46 optional, but it's just a nice hint, especially if you're staying on one line 22:03:50 perfect 22:04:13 so, there's a good start. 22:04:46 later I'll make it do comparisons and distinguish the diff. symbols w/the same name 22:06:35 is there any other cleanups you'd recommend? 22:07:23 "Wir benennen dafuer beim Serialisieren um." ??? 22:07:46 -!- Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:08:07 or simpler way to structure it? 22:08:12 Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #lisp 22:08:39 i can probably get rid of pkgs and just call list-all-packages in the dotimes 22:08:58 slyrus: "Hence, we rename when serializing" 22:09:19 or maybe "instead of (something), we rename when serializing" 22:09:59 ok, thanks antifuchs 22:10:13 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:10:20 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@82.143.220.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:10:40 ezakimak: yeah, that would work too - I believe dolist will evaluate the list form only once 22:10:41 -!- agumonkey [~agumonkey@64.158.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:18 ezakimak: here's some changes I'd make if it was me. http://paste.lisp.org/display/121651#2 22:12:11 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 22:13:46 looks clean. I haven't learned loop yet 22:14:01 I did fix mine to accept either a string or symbol 22:14:21 rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:31 I just inserted a (when (symbolp sn) (setq sn (symbol-name sn)) at the top of my let body 22:15:00 I think just using STRING is easier since it does the right thing for strings and symbols. 22:15:21 (And characters though that's less likely to be useful.) 22:15:37 I just find it easier to type 'frank than "FRANK" 22:15:54 And that'll work. 22:16:03 are there any cases where that could cause a problem? 22:16:07 (string 'frank) ==> "FRANK" 22:16:15 (string "FRANK") ==> "FRANK" 22:16:29 (string :frank) ==> "FRANK" 22:16:54 heh. didn't know I could do that. that's easier than my when clause 22:17:17 although I probably want to keep it as a when claues since it does a type check 22:17:55 I don't want to (string sn) blindly and let someone call it with 22 and look for '|22| 22:18:07 no, try it on NIL 22:18:40 s/no/now/ 22:18:58 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-131-96.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:04 oh. nm. so string does that for me already 22:19:07 Hello all. 22:19:25 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-145.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:19 ezakimak: http://paste.lisp.org/display/121651#3 that's how i would write it 22:20:22 Demosthenes [~demo@12.181.218.2] has joined #lisp 22:22:38 xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.187] has joined #lisp 22:22:38 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:22:38 oh, and if you want to find the same symbol, check for equality too 22:23:02 again, more loop magic :) I'll get there eventually 22:23:33 hey, slime question, when I C-c C-c a defun in my file's buffer, it does it in cl-user, not in the package that my slime buffer has current 22:23:38 any way to change that? 22:23:52 that's not true 22:24:05 ... If it -is- true, something is wrong. 22:24:06 stassats, eventually I want to check for equality--and group them 22:24:24 I just tested it 22:24:27 ezakimak: if the package is defined, slime should definitely use that package 22:24:40 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:24:41 if it's not defined, slime will use the package that's current on the repl, afaict 22:24:44 That said, if there is output from the DEFUN and the REPL is set to CL-USER, that might affect things slightly. 22:24:58 my slime buffer prompt is TEST>, and in my file buffer I C-c C-c a (defun foo () 'foo) and it wound up in cl-user 22:25:18 you sure it's not an old definition? (: 22:25:18 Umm... what package does your file buffer use? 22:25:19 kind of a pain 22:25:40 C-c C-c just does the s-expression under the cursor I thought 22:25:57 I'm not using C-c C-l 22:26:04 either you're not telling us something, or you're doing something wrong 22:26:04 er C-c C-k 22:26:14 SLIME looks for in-package forms in a file to determine which package to use for C-c C-c. 22:26:23 (Also for M-. and a few other things.) 22:26:38 oh. I thought it only looked at the form directly under the cursor 22:26:45 I have lots of other crap above in the file 22:26:51 that would explain it 22:26:56 ezakimak: *that* would be a pain when working in multiple packages. 22:26:57 Or if there's a -*- package: -*- variable, it might use that. 22:27:27 it's full of random stuff, including a bunch of (in-package) commands .... 22:27:50 slime will use the latest in-package it can find 22:27:55 I think it might be most recent previous in-package. 22:27:59 nyef: i don't think slime uses that 22:28:12 stassats: Then it might not use that. 22:28:25 nyef has it right... the closest previous in-package 22:28:31 and failing to find an existing package, it uses the package in the repl 22:28:46 Man, that fallback sucks. 22:29:00 yeah, I sometimes wish I could turn it off (: 22:29:10 Now, failing to find an in-package form, I can see, but if the package doesn't exist I think I'd rather catch the error. 22:29:39 you can 22:29:41 nyef, I agree 22:30:02 antifuchs: just set slime-find-buffer-package-function to 'slime-search-buffer-package 22:30:09 oooh 22:30:13 stassats: thanks for the hint! 22:30:13 but in which cases do you want to turn it off? 22:30:24 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:30:35 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:30:35 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:30:38 everytime I C-c C-c something in a package that's not yet defined 22:30:55 I'd rather know it's not there yet than have the definition land in some random other package 22:31:24 always makes me headscratch for at least a few minutes and I have to take a while to pick up & carry on with what I was really trying to do. 22:31:43 -!- udzinari` [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz] 22:31:51 (I understand it's not random, just... as arbitrary as the repl's current package can be) 22:32:17 that happens, yes 22:32:27 ... random thought: (delete-package *package*) from the REPL, and see if that leads somewhere useful. 22:32:39 mwahaha, you monster 22:32:41 that's exactly what was happening to me--I had resorted to copy-n-pasting between buffers 22:32:52 though, i think i expect the default behaviour more often 22:33:18 thing is, sometimes I expect it, /except/ when I am completely surprised by it 22:33:26 Hey, was planning on doing something similar in SBCL. You know that thing about how a symbol being read in a bogus package in a FASL tells you what package isn't there, but not what symbol? 22:33:26 well, I did a similar experiment earlier--I did (rename-package "test" "TEST") and the repl prompt didn't update until I did in-package out and back in 22:33:30 then I'm all "but I defined that! and it worked before!" 22:34:02 nyef: oh yes, that. leads to hilarious problems 22:34:20 nyef: I think this is pretty much why I always use (cl:in-package ...) everywhere (: 22:34:43 The "simple" method to get more information is to have the PACKAGE FOPs WARN about the missing package and yield a NIL instead of erroring, then INTERN blows up when passed NIL as a package. 22:35:04 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@97.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:18 I think the reason I use cl:in-package is because I'm well aware that silly package games can be played, and I don't like that my code could be affected. 22:35:35 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754272.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:54 nyef: arguably, the coder who shadows cl:in-package ought to know what they're doing. 22:35:56 At the same time, I write code for me, and don't play silly package games, so it's defending against a case that I don't believe will happen. 22:36:03 pkhuong: Yes, exactly! 22:36:17 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:21 cl:defpackage as well, since I'm still trying the one-package-per-file thing. 22:36:48 why doesn't defpackage default to :use cl ? 22:36:51 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 22:36:55 I used to do that as well (sans the package-file equivalence). 22:37:00 ezakimak: it can, on some implementations! 22:37:06 ezakimak: it defaults to implementation-dependent. 22:37:08 oh. there's a gotcha 22:37:16 antifuchs: you can also write your own package finding function, which will not succeed if there's an in-package, but the package isn't defined 22:37:33 but will use the repl buffer if there's no in-package 22:37:35 rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:37:36 nyef: yeah, that. also, again, slime loading from the current package is definitely a reason for this as well (: 22:37:47 stassats: sounds good! 22:37:58 I'd rather it default to the repl package 22:38:05 or an easy toggle 22:38:24 Meh. SBCL dumps home package names, and doesn't use *PACKAGE* for FASLs. 22:38:43 Does during compilation, not for FASLs. 22:38:49 hrm, actually, scratch all that, package-finding shouldn't affect C-c C-c 22:38:54 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 22:39:44 ... actually, that raises a question: -should- SBCL be honoring *PACKAGE* when loading FASLs? It's supposed to be equivalent to loading the source, isn't it? 22:40:15 well, eval-when suggests that it can be unequivalent 22:40:25 nyef: if the file has no in-package in as the first top-level form, then yes, it should (AIUI) 22:42:26 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:44:24 antifuchs: why i told about setting that variable isn't enough 22:44:43 you would need to redefine swank::guess-buffer-package... 22:45:32 which leads to some bad results 22:45:34 oh well... 22:46:09 I'm already monkey patching several parts of slime for my ssh'ed inferior-lisp insanity (: 22:46:10 s/why/what/ (gosh, they don't even sound alike!) 22:46:30 enthymeme [~kraken@rrcs-64-183-44-130.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:37 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@d64-180-206-148.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:46:45 stassats: why the NREVERSE on the LOOP. Seems like that's not needed. 22:46:47 (-: 22:47:04 wccoder [~wccoder@d64-180-206-148.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:21 >symbol not found in Map_Sym.txt. You're no pfdietz, that's for sure! 22:47:24 how dare you! 22:47:31 ... what's a pfdietz? 22:47:35 who's 22:47:47 he's the guy who did the common lisp standard adherence test suite for a while 22:47:50 a member of common lisp conformance police 22:47:51 oh, hmm 22:48:00 found some very interesting bugs in many implementations : 22:48:02 gigamonkey: which loop are you talking about? 22:48:15 stassats: in your implementation of ezakimak's function. 22:48:26 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:27 *gigamonkey* wonders if any LOOP implementations are smart enough to optimize for (x y) = (multiple-value-list (whatever)) to avoid creating the intermediate list. 22:48:50 gigamonkey: i don't have nreverse, you do! 22:49:12 Oh, sorry, I was looking at phadthai's 22:49:14 and I somehow blindly kept nreverse :) 22:49:41 hey 22:49:45 your all pastes fail on NIL 22:49:50 how to know type of a atom ? 22:49:58 type-of ? 22:50:06 won't work 22:50:10 smell it, taste it? 22:50:23 if it's unbound-variable ? 22:50:27 (type-of 22) ; -> (INTEGER 0 .... ) 22:50:38 if it's unbound it has no type--it has no value 22:50:50 any way to do atomic transactions in lisp? 22:51:00 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:04 seangrov` [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:11 -!- silenius [~silenus@p549472A8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:30 -!- BountyX [~erhan@69.54.63.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:46 Landr: transactions between what? 22:51:47 locking for concurrency? or do you mean data updates? 22:51:54 BountyX [~erhan@69.54.63.114] has joined #lisp 22:52:12 well, i have a file that will be written to, and i just want to make sure the different writes don't spaghetti over each other 22:52:19 so... data updates/ 22:52:25 what os? 22:52:42 and is this threaded? multi-processed? single process? 22:52:54 linux... erm, i guess i want to make it threaded? 22:53:12 Okay. I like this version (based on phadthai's) http://paste.lisp.org/display/121651#5 22:53:12 can someone remind me of how to make recursive function that get out element one by one ? 22:53:12 22:53:24 or i could spawn a thread that does nothing but take things off the input queue and shove it down the file 22:53:24 -!- BountyX [~erhan@69.54.63.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:40 morphism: eh? 22:53:56 gigamonkey: (nth-value 1 ...) would be enough 22:53:58 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:54:25 stassats: eh? 22:54:31 gigamonkey, feel free to use this as a problem excercise in your next book :) 22:54:32 morphism: Like any other recursive function: Figure out how to get from one state to the next, figure out how to know when -not- to get from one state to the next, figure out the active bit, put them all together. 22:55:03 let me see.. 22:55:15 start with case zero, then case one, then you're done :> 22:55:34 gigamonkey: i collected (list package status), not symbol 22:55:42 turbofail [~user@107.3.149.149] has joined #lisp 22:55:44 so, in my case nth-value 1 would be enough 22:56:27 stassats: Ah. So did I in my latest. But I still bound symbol. 22:56:28 Duh. 22:57:40 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:57:56 and i find find-symbol-locations to be a bad name 22:57:57 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:58:37 I got warnings when I tried to use "symbol" 22:59:05 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-248-115.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:59:19 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 22:59:19 since it's a class in cl 23:00:54 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:57 your terminology is off, what have you tried to do with "symbol"? 23:01:23 I tried to use it for the name of a let variable 23:01:46 er, in my multiple-value-bind 23:01:56 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:02:03 it's perfectly fine to do so 23:02:07 I have imported cl to my current package, so I think it collided 23:03:40 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 23:04:37 the warning I got sais "the function SYMBOL is undefined and it's name is reserved by ANSI CL... code defining it would not be portable" 23:04:54 "you're doing it wrong" 23:05:03 yeah, I already fixed that bug 23:05:13 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 23:05:30 slyrus: do you know the relation between the archimag/hunchentoot on github and wherever the canonical releases come from? 23:05:34 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:05:44 no, not really 23:06:23 is there an up-to-date comparison of options for web server hosting lisp? 23:06:29 canonical releases for hunchentoot are cut from bknr.net's SVN, IIRC 23:06:38 (if that's what you're asking, gigamonkey) 23:06:47 I know there's hunnchentoot, + fastcgi 23:07:02 antifuchs: I was about to ask that. So, thanks. ;-) 23:07:44 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 23:07:54 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:57 I'm mostly wondering if anyone on github is closely tracking the canonical svn repo. 23:07:59 http://bknr.net/trac/browser/trunk/thirdparty/hunchentoot is the trac url, afaict 23:08:44 -!- alama [~alama@n138232.science.ru.nl] has quit [Quit: alama] 23:09:12 ezakimak: there's only hunchentoot 23:09:32 i've used fast cgi before 23:09:59 what about allegro serve? is that dead? 23:10:03 that doesn't mean that it's a good idea 23:10:25 ok, well that's kind of what I'm looking for is something that compares pros/cons to the diff ways to do it 23:11:16 ezakimak: Dead is a strong term. I'm sure the guys at Franz still use it. 23:11:41 "losing traction among the community"--is that a better way to say it? 23:11:55 well, paste.lisp.org still uses areneida, but that doesn't encourage me 23:12:07 Or "never had much to start with." 23:12:20 that's good to know as well 23:12:21 I'd say hunchentoot is the pretty clear winner these days. 23:12:21 nyef, thank , I did it 23:12:39 ok. that's what I need to know. 23:13:04 as far as just developing, is there any reason not to just throw up fast cgi on my current webserver as a quick solution for now? 23:13:20 or is transplanting from fast-cgi to hunchentoot difficult? 23:13:51 The thing that seemed simplest to me was to set up hunchentoot and then have Apache proxy to it. 23:13:58 Assuming of course that you've got Apache running anyway. 23:14:05 -!- Blkt`` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-239-24.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:14:08 lighttpd, but yes 23:14:19 it can do the same 23:14:32 Blkt`` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-25-159.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 23:15:18 so, is hunchentoot just a lisp application that runs in SBCL, and loads your code, or is it a native web server that itself hosts SBCL? 23:15:42 it's an http server written in lisp 23:15:51 ok. 23:16:04 it's a library for serving resources from a lisp implementation (-: 23:16:16 *ezakimak* is going to project home page 23:16:26 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:16:26 -!- pirxs [~pirx@195.225.69.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:32 (that doesn't actually answer your question, but I think it's more accurate than saying it's an application) 23:16:36 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:16:57 your lisp is the application, but with hunchentoot, it grows an http interface 23:17:27 it's threaded? 23:17:35 ooh. 23:17:36 yeah 23:17:39 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:18:19 any chance of an async event loop for it ever? 23:18:42 If someone writes one. 23:18:53 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:19:00 so it should be possible at least? 23:19:07 I believe h4ns was making noises to that effect 23:19:19 could be; he hates threads. 23:19:29 not sure it's the best medium. hunchentoot was architected to take advantage of the simplicity of threads, iirc. 23:19:39 when I get that far, I'll come back to it then 23:20:22 I remember back in the early 00's, some lispers who suggested async event-based programmings as an alternative to threads for IO-bound tasks were laughed at 23:20:34 and told the style wasn't efficient enough :) 23:21:04 amb007 [~a_bakic@97.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:11 well, that's been proven false since then. 23:21:28 lighttpd, ngnx, even apache moved to an async model 23:22:02 -!- benny [~benny@i577A875B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:22:39 I think I stumbled on via c2, and the reception wasn't anything like node.js (: 23:23:53 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 23:24:01 love the blur gradient effect on the code example screenshots 23:24:04 (wtf) 23:25:06 yeah, I noticed that 23:25:57 looks like it could be a starting point 23:26:06 i'll bookmark that for later 23:26:45 I've been looking at web options recently and wondering about Clack 23:26:55 -!- paul0 [~user@187.112.66.124] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:12 has anyone had any experience with that? 23:27:13 paul0 [~user@187.112.66.124] has joined #lisp 23:27:17 ezakimak: it's nothing special; the concept was somewhat fresh back then. 23:27:40 looks like it connects to mod_lisp and Hunchentoot and would be straightforward to connect with teepeedee2 23:29:00 https://github.com/fukamachi/clack 23:29:17 L1SP [~wolfbytes@97.72.154.166] has joined #lisp 23:29:48 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 23:30:35 -!- Soulman [~knute@80.202.238.250] has left #lisp 23:32:01 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:11 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:39 benny [~benny@i577A7D37.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:33:40 MasterBismuth [~MMURB@184.99.12.152] has joined #lisp 23:35:43 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 23:37:04 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-145.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 23:40:36 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:45:04 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45:33 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 23:48:55 wubo [~user@c-68-55-91-8.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:01 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839B46.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:53:06 Anyone know of a way to check wether a given path is located within a given directory or its subdirectories? i want to make sure users don't give me a path like /var/stuff/../../home/munksgaard/secret_stuff, when i want them to only access files in /var/stuff 23:53:17 whether* 23:53:29 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-149-236.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:53:56 Munksgaard: truename + enough-namestring perhaps 23:54:47 -!- dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:07 ezakimak, mongrel2 does cool stuff with zeromq which might be worth looking at 23:55:21 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:55:37 there is a CL binding for zeromq as well, so you could write handlers for the backend 23:55:41 Munksgaard: if enough-namestring returns an absolute path, it's outside your directory 23:56:05 I've no experience with mongrel2, but have used zeromq quite a bit