00:01:04 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:35 quodlibetor [~user@user-12lc7vm.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:56 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A3F41.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:06 -!- xan_ [~xan@75.16.26.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:42 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:46 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:10:31 xan_ [~xan@75.16.26.133] has joined #lisp 00:12:41 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:04 -!- ASau [~user@93-80-248-41.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 00:14:15 ASau [~user@93-80-248-41.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 00:16:47 pizdets [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:04 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@75.16.26.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:27:50 -!- rumina [~rumina@88-148-219-26.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:28:38 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 00:30:07 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:07 -!- quodlibetor [~user@user-12lc7vm.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:31:25 -!- pizdets [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 00:31:42 Demosthenes [~demo@m352436d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:30 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:36:44 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:13 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@c-76-27-203-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:38:58 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has joined #lisp 00:39:36 sykopomp, ping 00:40:00 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:40:23 Guthur: pong? 00:41:03 just trying out cl-openal here, and noticed that i consistently crash the lisp with lesson2 00:41:06 SBCL 00:41:12 have you noticed this? 00:41:18 nope 00:41:28 the other two work fine 00:41:31 patches welcome, if you can figure out why, though :D 00:42:35 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 00:42:36 hehe, sure, if is pretty big there though 00:43:10 only hint is -> Process inferior-lisp floating point exception 00:45:25 Guthur: what platform? 00:45:30 and SBCL version? 00:46:10 Linux (Ubuntu 10.04) and SBCL 1.0.43 00:46:16 pkhuong, ^ 00:47:56 You'll want to play with the float trap masks around calls to foreign code. 00:48:10 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:56 pkhuong, ok, cheers 00:49:34 division by zero, usually. 00:50:16 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:12 beelike [maln@78-1-173-87.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:52:03 pdlogan [~patrick@c-76-27-203-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:26 pkhuong, good call 00:52:31 on the traps 00:54:10 sykopomp, not sure if you want to add anything to cl-openal with regard to SBCL FP traps 00:54:21 -!- hsrt [maln@78-0-225-92.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:55:19 sb-cga has something in its SBCL port file, at the top 00:55:21 I used thaqt 00:55:23 that* 00:56:16 (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel) (sb-int:set-floating-point-modes :traps nil)) 00:56:39 must sleep now, work in too few hours time 00:56:45 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host81-131-242-39.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:56:48 EM03 [~dfsdfdsf@unaffiliated/em03] has joined #lisp 00:57:09 Hello everyone 00:58:16 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@c-76-27-203-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:03:19 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:35 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 01:04:28 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B183.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:11:08 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-248-115.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Eish] 01:12:36 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 01:12:51 macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.45.116] has joined #lisp 01:13:04 beach [~user@116.118.3.252] has joined #lisp 01:13:10 Good morning everyone! 01:13:52 EM03: New here? 01:14:06 I'm learning scheme / lisp now yes 01:14:19 but almost everything I do is web programming, so its a bit weird 01:14:32 EM03: Why is that weird? 01:14:34 -!- phrixos [~clarkema@unaffiliated/phrixos] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:14:52 minion: please tell EM03 about Hunchentoot. 01:14:54 EM03: please see Hunchentoot: Hunchentoot is a robust and easy to use HTTP server. http://www.cliki.net/Hunchentoot 01:17:58 doesn't really seem ideal not much out there about it 01:18:10 although I'm tired of python ruby and php's 01:18:45 EM03: If think "ideal" means "a lot out there about it", I suggest you think again. 01:19:07 I agree 01:19:42 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:20:35 EM03: I suggest you try writing a small web-based application using Hunchentoot and see for yourself. 01:22:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-12-235.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:22:47 have you used it yourself? 01:23:44 EM03: I have, yes. I wrote an information system for my department using it. 01:24:31 how was it? 01:24:35 is it all continuation based? 01:25:16 It was as much fun as I can imagine web programming will ever be. It is not continuation based because Common Lisp doesn't have first-class continuations. 01:26:37 xan_ [~xan@75.16.26.133] has joined #lisp 01:26:50 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@m352436d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:28:00 Demosthenes [~demo@m3d2436d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:20 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@68.48.40.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:35:14 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:39:08 benny` [~benny@i577A8BED.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:39:21 bobbysmith007 [~russ@ip68-101-67-62.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:44 -!- benny [~benny@i577A83CD.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:40:20 -!- benny` is now known as benny 01:40:51 build times are starting to get pretty annoying for me 01:41:01 so I'm looking into getting asdf to cache 01:41:13 to cache the fasls and reuse them on subsequent system loads 01:41:33 I already have a ~/.cache/common-lisp/sbcl-... directory with asdf-built fasls in it 01:41:47 but it never seems to use them when I load from a fresh lisp instance, always recompiling 01:41:53 and I don't have the force option set anywhere 01:41:57 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:42:07 any tips on where to start looking? 01:42:12 Phoodus: is there a problem with your filesystem timestamps? 01:42:20 I checked that, doesn't seem to be 01:42:24 Weird. 01:43:39 yeah, just looked at a random file. The .lisp is 2 days old according to timestamp, but it still recompiled it 01:44:11 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:22 How can you tell? 01:44:48 -!- c|mell [~cmell@86.122.168.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:46:01 because I see all the compiler output on stdout, including "/home/..../.cache/common-lisp/...../...fasl written" 01:46:16 and each defun getting its own "compiling (DEFUN ...)" line 01:48:36 plage [~user@222.253.100.132] has joined #lisp 01:48:43 Good morning everyone. 01:49:05 Phoodus: does that happen only for sbcl, or for all CLs? 01:50:06 that I don't know 01:50:22 we've got some sbcl-specifics in here now, wouldn't be able to compile under others at the moment 01:52:56 EM03: In case you didn't know, this channel is mostly about Common Lisp, so if you are looking for answers related to Scheme, it may not be the ideal place to ask. 01:53:05 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:14 ah yea I'm looking at both plage 01:53:24 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 01:54:13 hmm, there are a few systems that seem to be caching 01:54:16 *Phoodus* pokes further 02:00:57 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:55 -!- plage [~user@222.253.100.132] has left #lisp 02:03:30 Ratan [~mostakur2@115.127.15.70] has joined #lisp 02:04:07 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-168289.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:04:23 -!- Ratan [~mostakur2@115.127.15.70] has left #lisp 02:05:50 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-184.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 02:09:58 -!- splittist [~splittist@AMontsouris-553-1-20-3.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10:54 gko [~gko@111.81.238.35] has joined #lisp 02:12:21 ok, there's a custom asdf module in here, something of which is preventing the time checking from working 02:12:29 it's to auto-generate the package.lisp files with the make- and use-package calls 02:14:18 erm, not auto-generate, but fill in a hashtable, so that package.lisp's static contents can call it to set up the package properly 02:14:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.145.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:14:49 it's returning a component-relative-pathname of "package.lisp", so I don't see how that would prevent the caching system from knowing the timestamp 02:28:53 anybody know how asdf decides when a component needs to be recompiled? especially regarding a custom component 02:29:03 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:29:40 Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-145-219-162.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:25 -!- EM03 [~dfsdfdsf@unaffiliated/em03] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:32:21 spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 02:34:42 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:36:32 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.210.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:20 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.83] has quit [Quit: Offline] 02:41:01 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has joined #lisp 02:42:00 Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.210.216] has joined #lisp 02:42:16 in lisp if a slot is redefined in a subclass of a superclass it is defined, the slot properties are combined, is this a necessity caused by some reasons internal to implementation or the choice? 02:51:12 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-231-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:07 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@ip68-101-67-62.ga.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:56:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@75.16.26.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:58:53 Phoodus: 12.4.2 How can I wholly disable the compiler output cache? http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html#Operations 03:00:07 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.210.216] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:00:41 stephenry [~user@76-218-106-17.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:48 makks_ [~max@p5790F42D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:33 -!- makks [~max@p5DE8E6C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:02:59 Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.210.216] has joined #lisp 03:04:10 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.45.116] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:53 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:10:41 joe999: my problem is the opposite; getting the output compiler cache to work 03:10:56 or at least, to recognize custom components as not requiring recompilation every time 03:11:54 -!- stephenry [~user@76-218-106-17.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:13:49 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:08 -!- zmv is now known as z 03:14:18 -!- akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-093-204.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:14:20 perhaps the asdf directive to disable the cache has been set, and needs to be unset 03:14:22 -!- z is now known as zmv 03:15:15 no, I think I got it mostly working 03:15:25 however, my app doesn't seem to be compatible with pure fasl-loading 03:15:55 so I'll need to go in there and figure out what's being lost from compile-time through the fasl 03:16:07 (probably at some point in the future :-P) 03:17:24 does common lisp have an API so let say I really wanted to know what the flet is 03:17:44 I know it defines a local function but is there anything else to it 03:18:01 google for clhs flet 03:18:04 sort of what python or ruby has some kind epydoc 03:18:09 that's my "quick reference" :-P 03:18:23 though the clhs is very formal and precise 03:18:25 lol besides having to search different sites 03:18:35 clhs 03:18:36 clhs = Common Lisp Hyperspec, the standard 03:18:54 there's a few sites that host it 03:19:30 yeah I see it cliki does 03:19:37 kool thx 03:19:50 slime probably has some magic keystroke to link right to the clhs entry for whatever's under the cursor, but I've not gotten that to work 03:19:51 is it worth having the el file or just use web 03:20:07 there is an el file for it 03:21:38 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:22:06 xan_ [~xan@75.16.26.133] has joined #lisp 03:22:39 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:23:09 slime can take you directly to the function definition of reference via your browser 03:23:25 i don't remember what the command 03:23:41 slime-hyperspec-lookup-symbol or something like that 03:24:30 C-c C-d h 03:24:32 M-x slime-hyperspec-lookup 03:25:41 yep 03:25:45 that worked 03:25:49 hyperspec/clhs/lisp reference all are the same things 03:25:54 the reference 03:26:03 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 03:26:11 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/s_flet_.htm 03:26:39 reference is kinda formal and this might be a little disturbing at first for a newb 03:26:45 but then you'll get used to it 03:27:25 very cool , hmm so a flet and label are the samething ? 03:27:27 i love it especially after seeing how silly references which aren't formal can be :p 03:28:27 labels is equivalent to flet except that the scope of the defined function names for labels encompasses the function definitions themselves as well as the body. 03:28:46 from the page you recently linked 03:29:16 -!- The_Fellow [~storm2@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:29:33 ok so what if I want this hyperspec but offline 03:29:46 download it :) 03:30:19 I mean is there way I can call this and still open up in a browser offline ? 03:30:24 -!- tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:30:32 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 03:30:56 yes 03:31:37 there was a variable that keeps the path to reference directory on drive 03:32:05 if hyperspec is downloaded and you set the variable to that path, you are good to go 03:32:16 let me find what it was 03:32:16 man I have alot to learn 03:32:38 -!- xan_ [~xan@75.16.26.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:33:34 ftp://ftp.lispworks.com/pub/software_tools/reference/HyperSpec-7-0.tar.gz this is hyperspec tarball if you want to download it 03:34:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:34:03 yeah I found it too 03:34:08 thx 03:35:54 http://stephensoftware.wordpress.com/2009/09/26/slime-and-offline-lisp-hyperspec/ 03:36:06 damn this hasn't been updated since 05 03:36:32 what hasn't been updated since 05 ? 03:36:48 the hyperspec doc 03:36:52 :D 03:36:53 nixfreak: the standard hasn't changed since 1994. 03:37:10 That's the beauty of standards: they're constant. 03:37:13 i was just going to ask what has been updated in 05 :D 03:38:14 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Quit: I really, really hate emacs] 03:38:34 kenanb: your question on slot property inheritance:Some slot options are inherited by a class from its superclasses, and some can be shadowed or altered by providing a local slot description. No class options except :default-initargs are inherited. For a detailed description of how slots and slot options are inherited, see Section 7.5.3 (Inheritance of Slots and Slot Options). http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/ 03:38:34 HyperSpec/Body/m_defcla.htm#defclass 03:39:00 ah thanks joe999 03:39:14 your welcome 03:39:46 i read the link some days ago but i see now that i haven't read carefully enough 03:39:50 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 03:40:30 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:42:07 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:20 That was a good question though. It seems to be saying that a union of slot properties is defined by the standard. 03:43:47 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:44:00 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81298B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:44:04 xan_ [~xan@75.16.26.133] has joined #lisp 03:44:06 The set of the names of all slots accessible in an instance of a class C is the union of the sets of names of slots defined by C and its superclasses. The characteristics of the slot are determined by the slot specifier of the defining class. -and the slot specifier includes the slot properties 03:44:16 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/07_ec.htm 03:44:48 The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 03:44:52 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:44:57 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gdihsczrnwtutpcb] has joined #lisp 03:46:56 splittist [~splittist@AMontsouris-553-1-20-3.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:49:30 yeah 03:49:34 A consequence of the type rule is that the value of a slot satisfies the type constraint of each slot specifier that contributes to that slot. Because the result of attempting to store in a slot a value that does not satisfy the type constraint for the slot is undefined, the value in a slot might fail to satisfy its type constraint. 03:50:06 that part was the one making me wonder if that choice was infact a necessity for internal reasons or something 03:50:59 -!- The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:51:20 The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 03:51:22 it makes me smile to find something undefined in the hyperspec :p 03:51:36 What's undefined? 03:52:09 It's just saying that if you lie to the computer it's allowed to do whatever it likes. 03:52:33 It's along the same lines as modifying a hash-table you're iterating. 03:52:35 yeah, i was kidding 03:52:39 :) 03:53:19 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:53:20 i think "undefined" usually means it is a choice left to implementation or something in hyperspec, right? 03:53:49 I believe it means it's left to the implementation. 03:54:01 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 03:54:17 It means "all bets are off". 03:54:38 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54:39 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:09 I have to say I think it's strange it doesnt define assigning the wrong type as an error 03:56:51 Isn't that because it would mandate type checking machinery, making it slow, thus defeating the point of specifying a type? 03:57:26 joe: The same goes for violating delared argument types. 03:57:58 It's because they didn't want to require people to bother writing compilers with type inference. 03:58:00 joe999: types are for optimisation. 03:58:09 Thanks, that makes sense 03:58:23 Remember that CL was an effort to merge a zillion lisp dialects with the least effort. 03:59:07 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 03:59:18 (+ 1 "x") gives an error, so there is a kind of common sense type error throwing that is used by implementations 03:59:54 joe: You need to understand the difference between classes and types. 04:00:43 (+ 1 "x") isnt an implementation dependent type error? 04:01:33 Bike, your not with BioBike are you? 04:01:40 No. 04:01:42 joe999: If memory serves, the condition signaled has to be a subclass of type-error. 04:01:53 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:02:01 Might signal type-error if some argument is not a number. Might signal arithmetic-error. 04:02:17 ok,thanks 04:03:57 -!- lolwut_ [~krakatoa@cpc24-slam6-2-0-cust231.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:07 valc [~valc@li254-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:04:08 lolwut_ [~krakatoa@cpc24-slam6-2-0-cust231.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 04:04:24 -!- valc [~valc@li254-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:04:50 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:19 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:01 valc [~valc@li254-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:08:15 -!- valc [~valc@li254-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:09:16 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.114.105] has joined #lisp 04:10:18 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 04:10:21 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.114.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:10:22 cesarbp_ [~chatzilla@189.247.114.105] has joined #lisp 04:10:24 -!- cesarbp_ is now known as cesarbp 04:13:12 -!- xan_ [~xan@75.16.26.133] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:17:27 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.213] has joined #lisp 04:17:38 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.213] has quit [Changing host] 04:17:38 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:18:56 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:27 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:47 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:22:08 xan_ [~xan@75.16.26.133] has joined #lisp 04:22:11 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@m3d2436d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:22:26 You know what I dont get? Given Paul Grahams programming style and focus, why did he become a CL specialist instead of scheme? 04:23:14 joe999: maybe he is a troll 04:23:17 :D 04:23:20 haha 04:24:31 what i don't get is how he came up with arc 04:24:44 He's written some essays on that topic. 04:24:50 You might want to read them. 04:26:08 yeah, i read them already 04:26:42 So, what is it that you don't understand? 04:27:17 i meant i expected more popularity or such from the result 04:27:32 clojure-like at least 04:27:40 It has a following. 04:28:24 Clojure feeds off the disillusioned java programmer, supplying the power of the libraries they are familiar with, without the soul crushing torment of java development. 04:28:40 So you'd expect it to be disproportionately popular. 04:29:02 you are probably right 04:29:07 By the same token, clojure faces high obstacles in escaping from those libraries. 04:30:09 Hmm. I am very annoyed by the lack of a null or undefined constructor in ecmascript. 04:34:00 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@193.109.18.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:36:29 Evildaemon [~chatzilla@50-35-187-113.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:30 Okay, my question is: How do I create a function/macro/etc that can produce an infinite number of numbered variables. (Yes, I'm aware this sounds like a C programming question.) 04:37:43 <|3b|> step1 04:37:54 <|3b|> buy an infinitely large DIMM and install in motherboard 04:38:10 <|3b|> step 2, look up gensym in CLHS 04:38:10 Infinite how? Lazy evaluation, calling it multiple times? 04:38:18 sorry 04:38:27 I meant potentially infinite, lol. 04:38:32 <|3b|> (or make an arbitrarily large array) 04:38:48 Well, I'm not sure what you mean, but you should probably look into gensym, yeah. 04:39:02 <|3b|> (explaining the end goal instead of the particular implementation strategy might give more helpful answers) 04:39:42 Creating tokens. (I'm probably approaching the problem incorrectly.) 04:40:01 <|3b|> tokens for what? 04:40:05 Yeah, I think you are. What's the end goal? 04:40:24 <|3b|> do they have to be symbols? would strings work? numbers? 04:40:35 <|3b|> do they need to last between runs? etc 04:40:39 The idea is to try and parse a statement into smaller chunks then assign it to a list. 04:40:46 (String) 04:41:11 *|3b|* is guessing hash table or adjustable array 04:41:32 yeah, infinite number of variables seem evil for that goal 04:41:41 The array is probably what I'm looking for. 04:41:42 <|3b|> do you have a well defined grammar? if so maybe a real parser would help 04:42:14 Evildaemon: you can't create variables; variables are abstract concepts that only exist in our heads. 04:42:36 Like the rest of language? =) 04:42:49 (Directed at PK) 04:43:18 <|3b|> Evildaemon: as opposed to things like hash tables, symbols, arrays, etc that exist at runtime 04:46:54 Zhiv, this looked interesting on js constructors: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1114024/constructors-in-javascript-objects 04:48:53 *|3b|* interpreted it as a complaint 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-!- oconnore [~eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:06:05 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-184.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 06:06:37 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ssdlwolbogmfieqw] has joined #lisp 06:07:47 -!- krappie__ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:07:54 krappie__ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 06:09:06 -!- Evildaemon [~chatzilla@50-35-187-113.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110323143040]] 06:11:59 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:12:39 <|3b|> ah, slime has tabs in it, no wonder the diff is confusing :p 06:18:16 davekong [~davekong@unaffiliated/davekong] has joined #lisp 06:19:09 -!- davekong [~davekong@unaffiliated/davekong] has quit [Client Quit] 06:20:06 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:20:06 -!- flip214 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timeout: 276 seconds] 06:38:43 Neidson [~neidson@189.71.198.64] has joined #lisp 06:39:48 -!- Neidson [~neidson@189.71.198.64] has quit [Client Quit] 06:39:54 _pw_ [~user@123.112.68.60] has joined #lisp 06:40:20 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 06:41:27 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:35 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:41:46 good morning 06:42:24 buenos noches 06:43:53 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 06:43:57 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:46:22 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:31 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-68.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:57:19 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 06:59:05 ?! 06:59:17 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:43 aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:00:21 valc [~valc@balmora.robotjunkyard.org] has joined #lisp 07:01:54 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:02:54 *|3b|* ponders the fun options for method dispatch a value of type NULL would provide 07:03:10 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-141-67.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:03:48 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:35 <|3b|> relatedly, any preference for *foo-hooks* vs *foo-hook* for a list of functions to be tried to do foo? 07:04:58 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:05:22 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 07:06:55 -!- valc [~valc@balmora.robotjunkyard.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:07:05 *|3b|* supposes subclassable symbols might work too, without the performance implications of a value that is all types 07:07:31 <|3b|> would make for an interesting extra axis for namespace/package/module/whatever issues too 07:08:30 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:08:58 symbols have a plist so they are "slot-extensible" already 07:09:09 <|3b|> not method-dispatch extensible though 07:09:17 yeah 07:09:31 <|3b|> and for extra fun, you could start with a superclass that didn't have a value slot, plist, function slot, etc :) 07:10:13 I always wondered whether if would make more ense nowadays to implement symbol-plist by an external hash-table 07:11:00 *|3b|* usually just uses my own hash table rather than symbol-plist 07:11:05 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-59-249.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:11:37 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:11:43 yeah becausa that makes it easier to clean up 07:11:59 or in general to iterate through all your special symbols 07:12:20 Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:12:22 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:46 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:14:56 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-113-103.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:15:37 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:25 lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7B83D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:19 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7BC9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:21:24 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has joined #lisp 07:23:18 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-168289.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 07:24:57 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:26:30 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:27:51 TeMPOraL [~user@188.146.250.82.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:28:08 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.77.215] has joined #lisp 07:30:08 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:30:54 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:20 -!- lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7B83D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:34:35 Hi! What's the easiest way to map n consecutive elements in a sequence? 07:34:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.77.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:35:20 Specifically, I want to iterate over three consecutive words in a list or vector of strings. But possibly other types as well. 07:35:48 Does some utils have zip function? 07:36:19 <|3b|> you could use subseq or loop 07:36:40 Yeha, thought about subseq 07:36:47 <|3b|> or write your own map variant that takes bounds 07:37:11 <|3b|> (bulit-in ones take arbitrary numbers of sequences/lists, so don't have room for extra args) 07:39:45 woudshoo` [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:45 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.77.215] has joined #lisp 07:42:19 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 07:43:07 <|3b|> hmm, slime mirror on github doesn't match the one on boinkor :( 07:43:37 <|3b|> seems to be differences in name translation 07:44:06 *|3b|* thought it was missing commits on github version, but that seems to be just github not being able to page all the way to the beginning 07:44:50 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:45:02 <|3b|> (or maybe it was on a different branch, or something, dunno) 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[~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:59:29 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:49 stis [~stis@host-95-201-112-88.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:01:00 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-125-145.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:02:17 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-125-145.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:58 wow 08:03:35 i am reading this flet vars thread and it made clear so many things in my mind 08:04:52 it seems some trollish attempt to criticize language with huge lack of knowledge about it results in concepts getting discussed in great detail 08:07:12 i wonder, is choice on symbol's having symbol values and variable-values boundable to them a decision to make easy to implement most of cl on top of some core cl functionality 08:08:49 i mean is it something like implementers made values boundable to symbol's directly as a core functionality to be able to implement other things, and implemented variable protocol in a higher-level 08:09:09 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-228.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:48 <|3b|> i think the important part is having symbols as a distinct object at runtime, and defining the language in terms of runtime objects rather than a sequence of characters 08:10:22 hmm I'm not sure if this anwers your question, but symbols being first-level objects (manipulable by CL code) is a feature, yes; and useful for various tasks, including language implementations written in CL 08:10:40 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:10:40 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 08:10:40 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:10:47 <|3b|> so once you have a symbol object, it is reasonable to associate a value with it (so symbol-value), and it is reasonable (and in fact pretty much the point) to use them to name things, including variables in a lexical or dynamic environment 08:11:34 <|3b|> both of those uses being present in CL is just an artifact of various people in the past having thought both of those uses were worth implementing 08:11:35 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-97-176.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:11:35 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 08:13:19 well, as I see it it's just because there has to be some way to identify identical things in the parse-tree; and as variables and functions (etc) have different name-spaces, there has to be a struct symbol 08:13:50 IOW, a symbol is just the visible artifact of the parse-tree given the circumstances 08:14:04 billitch [~billitch@78.251.148.23] has joined #lisp 08:14:45 On the C64 the functions PRINT etc. were translated into 2 byte IDs, too - there's no great difference IMO 08:14:50 flip214: you are right about it but symbol being able to have a symbol-value beside those is kind of a different thing 08:15:05 is there a recommended equivalent of sizeof for number types in CL ? 08:15:15 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:15:18 i'm trying to get the byte size of a fixnum 08:15:21 <|3b|> integer-length ? 08:15:32 <|3b|> most-positive-fixnum might help there too 08:15:34 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.163] has joined #lisp 08:15:45 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.163] has quit [Changing host] 08:15:45 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 08:16:09 |3b|: yeah but it's the size of a value 08:16:17 yes most-positive-fixnum will help you determine how many bits of storage it uses 08:16:30 |3b|, phadthai: btw yes these pretty much answered my question, though i also see i am not really able to see the whole picture yet :) 08:16:33 anyway 08:16:46 <|3b|> byte size is probably (ceiling (integer-length most-positive-fixnum) 8) or so, maybe 1 more 08:17:00 thanks 08:17:03 i think this is wrong but most-negative-fixnum will do 08:17:13 <|3b|> hmm, maybe not 08:17:24 yeah this is all rather unspecified 08:17:46 splittist [~splittist@212-198-230-252.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:17:49 <|3b|> maybe up to 2 more than that 08:17:57 but i'd have liked to put (unsigned-byte 8) and have a valid anwser too 08:18:22 |3b|: two more or what ? 08:18:24 billitch: allocate a simple-array of them, and look at its size? 08:18:27 of* 08:18:30 Blkt [~user@82.84.161.37] has joined #lisp 08:18:48 flip214: size of an array ? do you mean length N 08:18:48 ? 08:19:09 <|3b|> clisp has particularly small fixnums, so that most-positive-fixnum will underestimate the storage size 08:19:45 <|3b|> fixnum values appear to be 6 octets on 64bit clisp, and are 3 octets on 32 bit if i remember right 08:20:47 i could bear with just sbcl compat 08:20:50 <|3b|> so maybe (ceiling (integer-length most-positive-fixnum) 8) rounded up to a power of 2 08:21:00 billitch: no, perhaps using room, before and after allocating 1M entries or something like that 08:21:17 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:21:23 <|3b|> well, then (if (> most-positive-fixnum (expt 2 32)) 4 8) :) 08:21:23 flip214: lol 08:23:37 |3b|: yeah and a special case for (unsigned-byte ...) and (integer ...) it sucks but should work 08:23:55 <|3b|> not sure what you mean 08:24:19 sizeof() would work on any type, i onl care about numbers 08:24:44 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 08:24:51 *|3b|* thought you were specifically interested in fixnums 08:25:22 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 08:25:59 well i can get the 8 out of (unsigned-byte 8) so the problem was to handle fixnums too 08:26:34 but it feels like some compiler introspection should provide this data 08:26:39 *|3b|* would say not (worry about fixnums specifically, since they should be a subtype of one of the (signed-byte ...) you care about 08:27:30 <|3b|> or if you don't care about values over 2^31, you can't use 'fixnum' for anything portably anyway 08:28:23 -!- prip [~foo@host188-121-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:30:04 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:30:20 good day everyone 08:30:37 ok, typexpand is helpful for getting most-positive-value from subtypes of integer 08:30:47 -!- splittist [~splittist@212-198-230-252.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:31:00 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 08:31:05 -!- woudshoo` [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:31:30 splittist [~splittist@212-198-230-252.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:32:20 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:45 fixnums are a special case, thanks |3b| 08:36:02 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-228.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] 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woudshoo` [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:06 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:01:08 abhinav [~abhinav@nat/cisco/x-qfmygzulbpfwhkgt] has joined #lisp 09:01:59 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:02:11 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:02:27 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@87.96.150.208] has joined #lisp 09:03:21 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 09:06:00 slash_ [~unknown@pD955C548.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:06 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 09:08:47 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 09:09:10 -!- splittist [~splittist@212-198-230-252.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: splittist] 09:09:17 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:09:55 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:10:05 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@89.129.116.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:14:28 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-141-67.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:15:45 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@87.96.150.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:15:49 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:16:37 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:00 There are two useful vi commands: :!emacs RET and :q! emacs RET ; unfortunately, I cannot try them out, I don't even have any vi variant installed on my systems :-( 09:19:01 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:11 -!- woudshoo` [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:20:41 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has joined #lisp 09:21:03 <|3b|> pjb: surely there is an emacs mode you can try them in? :) 09:21:04 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:16 pjb: Luckily VIM has many more commands - that makes it useful again 09:23:00 <|3b|> pjb: both seem to work in M-x viper :) 09:24:37 *|3b|* has autodoc for ps special operators now too, wonder how many have detailed enough arglists to actually be useful 09:24:44 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:28:00 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:30:46 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:47 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.252] has joined #lisp 09:34:21 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:34:54 -!- Landr [~user@78-21-48-126.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:59 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:35:51 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:38:31 woudshoo` [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:04 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:40:53 |3b|: do you have any material on optimization considerations for OpenGL 3.x > 09:41:31 <|3b|> just what's in my head, which is probably out of date :p 09:41:52 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955C548.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:41:56 hehe, I found some stuff, which also seemed to be out of date 09:42:01 slash_ [~unknown@pD955B8F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:28 did you find anything in particular when using cl-opengl 09:42:44 <|3b|> stuff like try to keep batch sizes reasonable sized (not too small since then you need too many calls, but 16bit indices might be faster than 32bit) 09:43:05 <|3b|> function call overhead is even more important, due to ffi overhead and automatic error checking 09:43:08 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:43:25 so, try to pack as much into one VBO? 09:43:37 <|3b|> not exactly 09:43:49 <|3b|> just watch out for tiny VBOs being used a lot, stuff like that 09:44:14 oh right, so say, bind one VAO and reuse until done 09:44:29 then move to the next 09:46:00 *|3b|* would have to actually try to code stuff to remember specific 09:46:14 <|3b|> but generally more function calls is worse than fewer :) 09:46:41 <|3b|> (some are worse than others, so if you can figure out which, it might be worth sorting stuff to trade those for more of a cheaper one) 09:47:20 I suppose as always profiling is the only true measure 09:47:29 <|3b|> yeah, was just about to say that :) 09:47:54 <|3b|> maybe look at one of the gl debugger/profiler apps, or some of the extensions for measuring performance from a gl app 09:48:39 <|3b|> also try simple stuff like resizing window and see how much it affects framerate, if it does fill rate is the problem and changing function call patterns won't help 09:52:08 *|3b|* wonders if i will be able to finish typing in this webgl app this time without finding any more slime/slime-proxy brokenness :p 09:53:06 *|3b|* has arglists for functions that don't take any args now too 09:55:15 you got any online demo of webgl? 09:55:49 <|3b|> just http://3bb.cc/projects/webgl/test1/ so far 09:56:22 ah damn, at work and the opengl is a no go 09:56:51 says 'couldn't get webgl context' 09:57:01 *|3b|* is trying to get coding environment set up for it to do something with parenscript + webgl for http://lispgames.org/index.php/2011_Spring_Lisp_Game_Jam but so far looks like i probably won't actully get to the 'game' part by the end of the 7 days :p 09:57:23 <|3b|> yeah, can be hard to get a working browser + drivers combination :( 09:57:33 <|3b|> which browser, what hardware/os? 09:57:50 google chrome 09:58:15 its a work machine so the drivers are problably only the generic windows ones 09:58:24 or somethign 09:58:53 <_3b> maybe try --use-gl=desktop --enable-webgl --ignore-gpu-blacklist 09:59:04 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:59:14 ATI FireMV 2250 09:59:18 <_3b> (but probably don't run like that normally even if it does work, blacklists are there for a reason) 09:59:20 never even heard of it 09:59:30 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 09:59:48 <_3b> heh '2d workstation acceleration card' 10:00:18 <_3b> so yeah, might not work too well :p 10:00:37 lol, "you shall not have 3D" 10:01:23 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.238.35] has quit [] 10:02:04 Xach: Any update re. the *invoke-debugger-hook* issue? 10:02:13 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:18 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:04:06 hehe, the Port of Elite to Common Lisp is a little optimistic for a game jam 10:04:08 *|3b|* got about 2 forms done before running into a bug in my magic dwim space key instead of a slime problem :p 10:04:21 <|3b|> i think it was already started (the elite thing) 10:04:56 <|3b|> we don't really have the community size or existing libs to really do the 'make something from scratch' style 10:05:24 <|3b|> so it mostly ends up just 'excuse to hack on your personal game dev libs' week :p 10:05:54 <|3b|> (or 'excuse to work on long-term game project' week) 10:06:12 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:42 tcr: No. 10:08:26 *Xach* spent a lot of time yesterday writing slides & script 10:08:30 |3b|: hopefully will come with time, there is some nice libs, though pretty low level 10:08:45 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:09:27 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:09:36 thought familiarity counts for alot, now matter how good the lib 10:09:39 though* 10:09:45 now/no 10:10:24 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 10:11:01 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 10:11:30 <|3b|> yeah, once people start getting libs to the point of making cool stuff, the cool stuff can attract more users, which hopefully leads to docs and nicer APIs and such, and more cool stuffs to propagate the effect :) 10:12:25 ah docs, the thing no one ever wants to do 10:12:41 tcr: any progress on named-readtables? :) 10:13:09 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:02 <|3b|> Guthur: some people do, it just isn't as high a priority when stuff is changing a lot more often than people are reading the docs :p 10:14:46 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 10:16:09 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:16:22 Xach: I wish! I feel bad for leaving it in the state it is. OTOH I cannot get myself to spend the little free time I have inside now when it feels like summer here in switzerland 10:18:22 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:14 *|3b|* was going to say summer is a good time to stay inside, but its actually supposed to be sorta nice here next few days 10:20:02 <|3b|> forecast high for today is 97F though, which probably qualifies for staying inside 10:21:01 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21:20 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 10:24:28 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.10.85] has joined #lisp 10:27:09 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:28:28 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:03 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-xmkrojkghtgtaetl] has joined #lisp 10:31:59 -!- woudshoo` [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:33:36 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:33:44 -!- stis [~stis@host-95-201-112-88.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:34:30 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.6.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:34:34 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:08 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:42:43 pnq [~nick@AC813822.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 10:50:05 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:50:43 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:05 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-183-125.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:05 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-183-125.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:51:05 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 10:51:53 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52:05 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-183-125.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:05 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-183-125.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:52:05 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 10:52:16 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52:27 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-183-125.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:27 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-183-125.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:52:27 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 10:52:34 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 10:54:56 xinming [~hyy@218.73.130.96] has joined #lisp 10:55:29 |3b|: have you tried cl-muproc per chance? 10:55:46 <|3b|> nope 10:58:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:58:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 10:58:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:58:26 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:05 woudshoo` [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:40 <|3b|> hmm, got the example code ported from JS to lisp, now to figure out why it doesn't actually draw the stuff it is supposed to :/ 11:01:52 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:02:07 is the usual spinning triangle/cube, or something a little more adventurous 11:02:17 <|3b|> not even spinning, just a tri and square 11:02:36 <|3b|> (lesson 1 from learningwebgl.com, just wanted something simple to focus on tools for now) 11:02:37 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:02:39 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 11:02:51 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:00 peterhil pasted "Interleaving a sequence into n parts or "cutting" it into length n subsequences" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121596 11:03:09 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:03:13 Demosthenes [~demo@m492436d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:12 How should the type checking be done? Does check-type or something else like assert support (fixnum 0 (length sequence)) type-spec? 11:04:25 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:04:42 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:04:55 Could this be improved? Map with subseq? 11:05:03 *|3b|* would just let it break when it was used rather than checking it by hand 11:05:22 <|3b|> and lists are sequences 11:05:52 It seemed that for declare they are different 11:05:58 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 11:06:30 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:31 Or maybe there was earlier some functions that complained about an argument not being one or the other 11:06:39 (list or other sequence) 11:06:58 <|3b|> actually, i guess not all lists are sequences 11:07:10 <|3b|> but the ones loop works on are (i think) 11:07:22 *|3b|* checks 11:07:29 Yeah, I'm actually using these for tries. Which could be represented as nested lists. 11:07:45 <|3b|> nesting doesn't matter, just circularity and final cdr 11:08:28 I added the declare partly because getting (nil nil nil ...) as result doesn't make much sense 11:10:12 <|3b|> actually i guess it is subseq not list, which is specifically for sequences, so non-sequence lists shouldn't be used there anyway 11:10:17 <|3b|> *not loop 11:10:30 Kind of same like divide by zero, except this happens when (interleave '(1 2 3) 4) 11:10:33 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:10:46 No, subseq works for lists also 11:10:58 <|3b|> no, only the subset of lists which are sequences 11:11:00 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:11:03 Oh 11:11:33 How subseq differentiates those? 11:12:14 <|3b|> (listp '(1 . 2)) -> T, (subseq '(1 . 2) 0) -> error 11:12:32 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.190.83] has joined #lisp 11:13:16 Oh, so all cdrs must be lists. 11:13:16 listp only looks at the first CONS, while subseq has to return a list - and that works only with proper lists 11:13:25 <|3b|> you might be able to get away with taking subsequences of a longer dotted list or a circular list, but it is technically not allowed 11:13:41 <|3b|> right, list is (or cons nil) 11:13:58 lnostdal [~Lars@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:14:21 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:31 <|3b|> and none of the CDRs can be earlier parts of the list, since circular lists aren't sequences either 11:14:33 Acutally I need to implement a circular buffer for my sound synthesis project. But that can of course be faked by using a list of length 2*N where the halves are indentical 11:14:42 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has joined #lisp 11:14:53 *Guthur* has just found that "Schönfinkelisation" is the alternative name for currying 11:14:55 *|3b|* would uses a ring buffer in a types array rather than a circular list 11:15:05 I think I'll stick to curry though 11:15:19 -!- woudshoo` [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:15:27 peterhil: if you need a specific length, why not using an array? 11:15:56 *|3b|* likes being able to just hit C-c C-k, them C-M-x to test on 2 browsers at once :p 11:16:20 *|3b|* likes slightly less when it fails to work on both browsers (though i guess behaving the same is probably better than not) 11:16:31 flip214: I actually thought of coercing the arguments to array. But I want these to be flexible so the sequence can be a list or sequence 11:16:54 a list is a sequence. 11:16:55 list or other sequence (array, vector) 11:17:14 <|3b|> not all arrays are sequences either 11:17:41 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:17:45 Only 1 dimensional? 11:18:01 <|3b|> only vectors (including strings and bit-vectors) 11:18:02 <|3b|> rightr 11:18:11 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:18:40 <|3b|> so in standard CL, 'sequence' is exactly vector + proper list 11:19:01 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:03 <|3b|> (some CLs have extensions to add others, sbcl in particular lets you define your own sequence types) 11:19:24 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:19:56 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 11:20:10 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.190.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:20:23 bsod1 [~sinan@88.244.231.1] has joined #lisp 11:20:44 should I use (zerop ..) instead of (= 0 ...) ? if so, why? 11:21:28 *|3b|* would say yes, less reading to tell what it is doing 11:21:36 <|3b|> (= ... 0) is even worse though 11:22:08 I think that you're wrong. 11:22:16 <|3b|> with zerop, you only have to read 1 token instead of 2 ('=' and '0'), you know there is only 1 more argument (= has arbitrary number) 11:22:24 sequence in CL includes dotted and circular lists. 11:22:36 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/t_list.htm#list 11:23:23 I found there are bugs in both functions when the numeric argument is larger than length of sequence 11:23:36 <|3b|> hmm, true, though http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/17_aa.htm 11:24:00 |3b|: ok, thanks 11:24:14 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:24:14 What's a dotted list again? An assoc list like '((a . b) (c . d)) ? 11:24:39 <|3b|> so yeah, technically any list is a sequence, but if you want to actually use it as one, it should usually be a proper list 11:24:43 a list whose (cdr (last)) is not NIL 11:24:47 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.224.78] has joined #lisp 11:24:58 Oh, yes found it in CLHS also. 11:25:13 |3b|: what is wrong with using a circular list as a sequence? 11:26:20 bsod1: in this case it does not make much difference. But for procedures that expect predicate functions zerop is clearly better choice 11:26:24 zfx: I also wondered that. In circular list, the index arguments just have to be something mod number of items in the circular list. 11:26:28 <|3b|> zfx: apparently nothing, as long as you check the specific use for allowing that 11:26:40 <|3b|> MAP for example specifies 'proper sequence' 11:26:47 C-Keen: ok, thanks 11:27:12 <|3b|> as does subseq 11:27:20 And nothing prevents from loopin over the circular lists either. 11:27:33 As in taking cdr 11:27:53 how to create a circular list? this is my naive attempt that doesn't work obviously: (setf l '(1 2)) (setf (nth 2) l) 11:28:03 <|3b|> beelike: see the channel topic 11:28:14 <|3b|> beelike: might want to set *print-circle* first though 11:28:42 <|3b|> and you need to set a CDR to change the list structure, setting NTH or CARs just changes the contents 11:28:56 bee: (let ((l (list 'a))) (setf (cdr l) l) l) 11:29:02 beelike: (setf (cdr (last list)) list) 11:29:33 <|3b|> though setting a car to the head of the list makes a circular tree 11:29:55 <|3b|> (or a list that contains itself, whichever interpretation you prefer) 11:30:35 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.68] has joined #lisp 11:30:38 -!- beelike [maln@78-1-173-87.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:38 <|3b|> also, don't modify literal lists (which are what ' returns when passed a list) 11:31:06 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:15 could anyone briefly explain the benefit of function currying? 11:31:32 ehu` [~ehuels@109.35.60.241] has joined #lisp 11:31:41 I'd finding it hard to find a clear article about it 11:32:04 I'm* 11:32:09 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:32:51 <|3b|> if you have a short syntax for it, it is easier than (lambda (arg) (foo arg fixed-value)) 11:32:54 Guther: It means that functions only need to accept a single argument. 11:33:11 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:15 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 11:33:26 <|3b|> particularly useful with mapping functions 11:34:06 Guther: Instead of (fun a b) you have ((fun a) b), effectively. 11:34:10 <|3b|> (for example adding 5 to a list of numbers, (mapcar (curry '+ 5) list)) 11:34:56 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.224.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:35:01 cheers, I'll have to keep this in mind, and remember to use it when appropriate 11:35:53 Guthur: one useful application is partial evaluation of functions. 11:35:57 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:21 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.160.194] has joined #lisp 11:36:41 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@m492436d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:37:13 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.35.60.241] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:25 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:38:27 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.60.241] has joined #lisp 11:41:22 Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:41:45 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:41:56 beelike [maln@78-1-173-87.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:42:38 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.35.60.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:42:58 yep, this could be very useful 11:43:44 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-54-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:54 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:45:49 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:45:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-58.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:46:48 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:47:07 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 11:48:32 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-141-67.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:48:39 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:49:39 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:53 galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:56 Demosthenes [~demo@208.54.36.55] has joined #lisp 11:50:47 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:03 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gdihsczrnwtutpcb] has left #lisp 11:52:41 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:53:15 nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-54-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:53:35 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:53:56 is there a CL on the blackberry? 11:54:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-58.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:54:50 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:55:44 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 11:56:17 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:42 billitch1 [~billitch@78.251.44.147] has joined #lisp 11:56:45 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 11:56:50 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-54-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:02 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.251.148.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:57:03 nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-54-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:57:33 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:13 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:53 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:01:15 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-54-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:01:15 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:01:48 Guthur: ECL would be a good candidate, if you can compile C programs to the blackberry. 12:02:07 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:02:08 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:02:48 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 12:02:55 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:12 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:03:22 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-183-125.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:22 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-183-125.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:03:22 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 12:04:01 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:15 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:04:56 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:06:33 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:01 C does seem to be an option on the bb 12:07:45 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.161.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:07:53 -!- SidH_ [~SidH_@203.101.61.10] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224]] 12:08:01 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 12:08:14 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:08:20 dullard [~user@188.223.137.38] has joined #lisp 12:08:37 how can I get second return value of functions(like truncate)? 12:08:51 <|3b|> multiple-value-bind or nth-value 12:09:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:09:15 <|3b|> (or depending on what else you do with it, multiple-value-list or multiple-value-call) 12:09:19 Also: multiple-value-setq and (setf values). 12:10:39 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 12:11:10 Guthur: then there's also a couple of CL on JVM. 12:11:47 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:58 can anyone give me an example? I want to get second return value of (truncate 80 36) 12:11:58 <|3b|> ccl runs on a few of the small arm-based devices 12:12:09 <|3b|> (nth-value 1 (truncate 80 36))? 12:12:33 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 12:12:48 |3b|: thanks 12:12:56 bsod1: so now, you can't read a clhs page and use a simple operator such as nth-value? 12:12:57 <|3b|> or if you need both, (multiple-value-bind (quotient remainder) (truncate 80 36) ...) 12:13:25 <|3b|> also, yeah... docs are good for you :p 12:13:52 *|3b|* should go debug my stuff instead of reading docs for people :/ 12:14:08 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:14:32 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has quit [Quit: TheRealLongshot] 12:17:17 Is there a common lisp ftp package? 12:18:13 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:18:18 drl: the likely candidate is...wait for it... cl-ftp 12:18:57 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:19:29 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:36 (ql:system-apropos "ftp") 12:19:38 * # 12:19:47 LiamH [~healy@129.2.134.238] has joined #lisp 12:20:27 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.188.170] has joined #lisp 12:20:28 ^^ that's quickload 12:21:31 Ok, thanks, Guther and beelike! 12:23:48 Joreji [~thomas@134.61.66.232] has joined #lisp 12:26:02 -!- galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:26:31 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:31:52 drl: thank Xach for such a fine mechanism :) 12:34:19 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955B8F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:35:44 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 12:35:44 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 12:35:45 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:37:19 Thank whoever wrote cl-ftp, too. 12:37:53 <|3b|> bah, all that work getting arglist display working, and then i spend forever tracking down a bug where i transposed 2 args :/ 12:38:11 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:13 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-231-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:39:30 *|3b|* grumbles about overly dynamic languages... 'you want the 15th element of that 3 element array? sure, here ya go, feel free to multiply that NULL by numbers while you're at it' 12:40:14 <|3b|> (or undefined or whatever it is you get from array elements that aren't there) 12:40:32 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@208.54.36.55] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:41:00 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:37 lichtblau: feeling an itch to blog about lisp? 12:42:53 amirhoshangi [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 12:42:58 Xach: ? 12:43:16 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 12:43:29 pjb: I don't know how "standard" the JVM on Blackberry is 12:43:33 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 12:43:52 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:30 p_l|backup: :-) 12:44:47 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-183-125.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:47 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-183-125.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:44:47 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 12:44:48 Am I doing something wrong, or it sb-ext:atomic-decf broken wrt with-slots? 12:44:59 It could be easier to port a CL implementation to strange targets, but some implementations are not so hard to port. ecl, clisp, ccl. 12:45:11 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:45:15 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-234-188.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:32 -!- amirhoshangi [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 12:45:35 pjb: you know how annoying is th lack of something like the Emit framework from .NET on some of the mobile platforms? :D 12:46:00 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:46:36 <|3b|> flip214: i assume you have read the limitations in the docs for sbcl atomic ops? 12:46:37 ... now that I think, porting ABCL (or rather, a very different derivative) to .NET should be quite easy 12:47:01 <|3b|> didn't someone do that already? 12:47:05 |3b|: yes, I'm giving it a slot of a defstruct, type sb-ext:word ... 12:47:11 ABCL is written in Java no? 12:47:28 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:47:39 It might be easier to target a different platform from ccl. You would have to change only the compiler backend. 12:47:45 pjb: yes, but both JVM and .NET have common architectural elements 12:48:08 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:11 namely, stack-oriented VM, single-inheritance with interfaces, etc. 12:48:17 <|3b|> flip214: hmm, might not like with-slots then, not sure if that would get expanded soon enough 12:48:30 doesn't work with the slot accessor, too 12:49:01 Hmmmm: (unless (consp place) (invalid-place)) 12:49:22 <|3b|> yeah, was suspecting symbol macro wouldn't be good enough 12:50:00 tcr: i think i have an idea now. 12:50:39 cool what? 12:52:00 <|3b|> flip214: seems to be working here (with accessor, not with-slots) 12:52:17 tcr: binding *i-d-h* around loading operations, then saving that value at the end. 12:52:22 Yes, I saw examples in tests/ 12:52:28 p_l|backup: well the saving grace about .NET on mobile platforms is that no one buys them, hehe 12:52:28 but I don't have it yet 12:52:42 <|3b|> does with-slots even work on structs? 12:52:47 tcr: my worry was that, for example, the *i-d-h* of the target would clobber buildapp's error handling, but binding it should be enough to avoid that. 12:52:58 at least to the degree i'm happy with. 12:53:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.188.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:53:43 I will happily test a patch 12:54:38 <|3b|> and with-slots / with-accessors error as expected due to symbol-macros not being expanded before atomic-decf sees them 12:57:11 Guthur: don't mistake WinPhone with mobile .NET :) 12:57:40 I couldn't think of anywhere else you would use it 12:57:44 especially now that it can be used (though not .NET CF/MF) on iPhone and Android 12:57:47 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 12:58:29 Thanks Xach and whoever wrote cl-ftp and usocket! 12:58:41 |3b|: (sb-int:info :function :structure-accessor 'my-accessor-func) returns (NIL NIL) 12:59:50 Guthur: there's quite a market for Windows CE devices, and .NET CF makes it much, much nicer to develop applications for it. MicroFramework I think is even available on open-source royalty-free license 12:59:52 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:00:37 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-94-246.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:00:37 Really? Isn't windows CE dead yet? 13:00:38 <|3b|> flip214: does M-. on the accessor name take you to some random defstruct implementation code? 13:01:06 It's my own defstruct, and the function is bound - if that's what you want to know 13:01:23 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:01:23 Zhivago: nope - it's actually sold as "platform kit", and used in various devices, from crypto fill units through navigation to media centers 13:01:30 <|3b|> flip214: was more wondering if it was somehow the wrong function 13:01:31 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:50 M-. is slime specific, I'm on slimv - but if you phrase the question some other way, I can perhaps answer it more exactly. 13:01:54 <|3b|> flip214: actually, have you redefined that struct? might try reloading it in a clean lisp 13:02:02 Zhivago: PocketPC/Windows Mobile were actually sets of frameworks coupled with build profile 13:02:05 <|3b|> ah, don't worry about it then 13:02:30 p_l|backup: those don't sound like devices that you are actually going to do much app development on 13:02:42 the CE device list 13:02:54 Guthur: depends what kind of programming you want to do. 13:03:06 Guthur: Embedded developement pays out quite nicely 13:03:19 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-105-152.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:30 <|3b|> hmm, i guess redefining doesn't break it obviously 13:03:30 and well, CL on .NET would mean "We got windows covered" :D 13:03:36 amirhoshangi [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 13:03:46 (especially important with Windows 8) 13:04:22 <|3b|> flip214: what failure are you seeing? 13:04:43 hmmm ... completely closing SBCL and reloading everything seems to made it work now 13:04:43 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 13:04:57 <|3b|> ah, ok 13:05:09 hi guys 13:05:13 <|3b|> must have been that undefinedness of structure redefinition :/ 13:05:20 (documentation 'cons 'function) 13:05:20 gives me NIL in clisp 13:05:23 strange, I got the question about "clobber-it" and thought that I did answer correctly 13:05:33 amirhoshangi: as it might. 13:05:43 peterhil annotated #121596 "New version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121596#1 13:05:44 why ? 13:05:44 <|3b|> flip214: did you also recompile all the calls to it, make new instances, etc? 13:06:00 |3b|: I thought I did ... thank you! 13:06:29 It's not perfect, but I think it's a bit cleaner 13:06:34 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-122.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 13:06:38 why pjb: 13:06:42 amirhoshangi: specifications. 13:06:47 amirhoshangi: you may try also (describe 'cons) 13:07:22 In a well configured clisp, this will open a browser on the cons clhs page. 13:07:32 I remember using a lisp program to output arbitrary lisp objects (or just s-expressions) into dot files. Anyone know it or something similar? 13:07:44 amirhoshangi: see CUSTOM:*BROWSER* 13:07:52 I have cl-dot and heapgraph, but I think it wasn't neither of those 13:07:57 amirhoshangi: and CUSTOM:*BROWSERS* 13:07:57 k 13:08:04 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has joined #lisp 13:08:37 peterhil: There's at least one more out there, can't remember the name though. 13:08:50 akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-093-204.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:03 hmmm... anyone worked with a CL system that defined huge amounts of classes with custom metaclasses? 13:09:36 i dont have custom:browser in auto completion 13:09:41 p_l|backup: a similar question has been asked recently. Well, not for a huge number, but a big number. Perhaps a huge number would make things different. 13:09:53 p_l|backup: any program that uses persistence/ORM layers. 13:10:02 p_l|backup: but it doesn't really matter if you have a huge number of classes, without the similar number of methods... 13:10:10 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.244.231.1] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:10:13 amirhoshangi: see CUSTOM:*BROWSER* and CUSTOM:*BROWSERS* 13:10:32 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:33 amirhoshangi: also: (apropos "BROWSER") 13:10:47 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-105-152.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:10:49 joebo [cf3af714@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.58.247.20] has joined #lisp 13:10:54 as in >100k instances, of several thousand classes,defined through multiple inheritance from smaller amount of superclasses defining "traits" and common methods 13:11:11 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:18 <|3b|> p_l|backup: lisp on lines and related libraries maybe? (or the ftw etc successors) 13:11:23 p_l|backup: best way to know is to try it. 13:11:25 *|3b|* doens't know on what scale they are used though 13:11:47 |3b|: yeah, but ORMs usually don't work with such huge scale, afaik 13:11:47 p_l|backup: even reading the source of implementations would hardly tell the whole story. 13:12:06 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 13:12:13 the custom metaclass would be there to enable persistence, though 13:12:31 BTW, why emacs looses the cursor point when scrolling? I'm using Aquamacs emacs, so it could be specific to that. 13:12:36 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:12:44 I was basically thinking of placing RDF-style semantic database directly in the application by reusing CLOS/MOP mechanisms 13:12:48 <|3b|> well, that stuff is more than ORM, lots of MOPpy stuff in the presentation layer too from what i understand 13:13:11 bsod1 [~sinan@88.243.108.138] has joined #lisp 13:13:40 With sbcl, did it become possible now to call cl functions from within a C program (eventually making the C code - which has embedded cl code - as a shared library)? 13:14:09 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A248.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:21 <|3b|> you can pass CL functions as callbacks to C code loaded from CL, don't know about using C as the host though 13:14:34 peterhil: (setq scroll-preserve-screen-position t) 13:14:37 -!- amirhoshangi [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 13:14:41 francogrex: possible in ECL, ACL and LW 13:14:47 no idea why the hell this isn't the default 13:15:01 ah because it's the only thing missing and if I have it then I can chuck all the rest away and stay with only sbcl 13:15:06 francogrex: maybe also possible in Corman, but it lacks unicode 13:15:09 <|3b|> cmm: old slow terminals maybe? 13:15:44 francogrex: ECL has this as its purpose, LW and ACL both include ability to build shared objects for other applications to use 13:16:11 p_l|backup: ok yeah, I know, wanted to do it with sbcl. |3b| ok 13:16:35 do you use callbacks? 13:16:42 francogrex: SBCL can't run as shared lib, not the way it works at the moment 13:16:44 in your projects? 13:16:46 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:16:50 ok 13:17:17 francogrex: callbacks are quite simple, but they are mainly for libs that use callbacks in their APIs 13:17:51 <|3b|> might need to be careful to make sure C code doesn't call the callbacks from a thread that wasn't created by the lisp too 13:18:32 cmm: Thanks 13:18:36 |3b|: reminds me that when I get time for recreational hacking I should sit down and do that pthread trampoline for thread detection 13:18:37 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:20:05 -!- LiamH [~healy@129.2.134.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:21:01 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:21:08 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Client Quit] 13:21:10 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:14 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:21:45 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 13:22:07 mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-136-70.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 13:22:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-136-70.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Changing host] 13:22:07 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:22:18 ok, a more practical question; if I have a (define-alien-routine "c-function-here"... how to I reference the shared library to tell sbcl the function is there? 13:22:30 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@web30.webfaction.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:23:03 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:06 milkpost [~milkpost@web30.webfaction.com] has joined #lisp 13:23:15 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.10.85] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:31 dunno about sb-alien, but CFFI funcall has a place to specify the lib 13:23:59 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-116-38.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:23 as does defcfun 13:24:30 3b pasted "parenscript+webgl" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121599 13:24:39 <|3b|> that doesn't look too bad 13:24:43 cmm: Didn't work yet. I want to be able to click somewhere on the buffer and then scroll many pages and then shift click to select. 13:25:14 beelike: yes, but the c funcall mechanism is important if you have multiple libraries with the same API (like plugins) :) 13:25:45 <|3b|> peterhil: maybe C-space and M-w would help? 13:26:24 Ah, M-w was the other... :-) 13:26:37 I have a cheat sheet here, but didn't find it. 13:27:29 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:28:41 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-116-38.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:28:54 <|3b|> too bad it doesn't look like i can do the enums as :foo like cl-opengl instead of gl:+foo+ 13:29:12 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:42 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-146-153.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:42 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 13:29:58 -!- michael_lf [~michael@117.32.153.145] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:35 ok 13:32:10 gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has joined #lisp 13:34:25 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.243.108.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:34:38 greaver [~J@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 13:35:41 -!- greaver [~J@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has left #lisp 13:35:51 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A248.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:36:05 Xach: This is what I need the s-exp -> dot for: http://sushi.vasb.fi/tmp/DirectiveÊ004-24-EC-trie.txt 13:36:34 I'll be using that for other thing too, but tried (no pun intended) for an EC Directive text 13:36:38 greaver [~J@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 13:37:16 peterhil: That Ê looks suspicious to me. I can't load the URL. 13:37:22 |3b|: That helped. I'll try to remember that and learn more of the navigation/killing commands in Emacs 13:38:03 alama [~alama@131.174.138.232] has joined #lisp 13:38:25 Xach: There was a space that mistranferred here... Here's a corrected link: http://sushi.vasb.fi/tmp/Directive-2004-24-EC-trie.txt 13:38:25 <|3b|> supposed to be a space i thubj 13:38:27 <|3b|> *think 13:38:44 <|3b|> ah, maybe not 13:39:01 (And I know the printing has a bug... parantheses do not match.) 13:39:15 <|3b|> ah, somebody renamed it since i looked :p 13:39:25 Sorry... .-) 13:39:25 bsod1 [~sinan@78.175.218.228] has joined #lisp 13:40:34 The trie is formed by taking three consecutive words in the text as keys and it is sorted by frequency. 13:40:39 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:40:56 myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:41:17 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 13:41:19 I'm thinking of making a web app for the interpretation and quick visual scanning of legal texts like this. 13:41:48 To get a quick idea of what the text is about. 13:42:20 But I would like to represent this visually so that the most frequent terms appear on center and are bigger. 13:42:31 *|3b|* votes to use webgl :) 13:42:52 Oh, that would be cool. :-) 13:42:53 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:43:09 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:44:44 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:54 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:47:07 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:33 rumina [~rumina@88-148-219-26.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:49:23 <|3b|> peterhil: is counting 'products' 'products,' and 'products.' separately intentional? 13:49:36 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:52 *|3b|* would have expected either combining them or stopping at . (and maybe ,) 13:50:00 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.213] has joined #lisp 13:50:10 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.213] has quit [Changing host] 13:50:10 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:51:10 |3b|: I see you have the defpackage in an eval-when, is that required? 13:51:18 xan_ [~xan@75.16.26.133] has joined #lisp 13:51:42 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 13:51:59 Xach: is there a clear distinction in capabilities between zs3 and cl-s3? 13:52:05 <|3b|> Guthur: dunno, would have to look at parenscript (that file is parenscript code not CL code) 13:52:15 ah 13:52:40 <|3b|> stuff in eval-when :compile-toplevel or :load-toplevel is evaluated as CL though 13:52:57 sykopomp: ZS3 supports a lot more of the API. 13:53:10 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@188-195-186-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:53:18 sykopomp: It can also upload very large objects without loading the whole thing in memory. 13:54:46 Xach: nice! Thanks. 13:55:16 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 13:56:36 I covered almost the whole API at the time I wrote it, but the API has expanded since then 13:56:47 Oh, also ZS3 supports the CloudFront CDN API. 13:57:16 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:57:25 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:58:20 rootzlevel [~hpd@188-195-186-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:00:21 -!- The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:00:48 The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:22 ... I sometimes wonder how exactly one is supposed to gain initial experience required by some companies 14:03:59 <|3b|> be the 1 guy the planned to hire, but they had to write a description and open it up to everyone anyway? 14:04:15 <|3b|> (or just lie) 14:04:19 -!- pnq [~nick@AC813822.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:04:19 hehe 14:04:22 "8 years clojure experience" 14:04:24 p_l|backup: It is a problem that has perplexed graduates for quite some time 14:04:43 joachifm [~joachim@212.7.195.193] has joined #lisp 14:04:49 |3b|: or know people who can drop your CV in front of your future boss, not HR dept? 14:05:11 kai___ [~kai@e179018215.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:05:17 <|3b|> p_l|backup: that's one way to get to be that 1 guy, yes 14:05:21 -!- kai___ is now known as wetnosed 14:05:26 Xach: How long has clojure been around 14:05:42 *|3b|* prefers the strategy of just not working at those places, but then that's probably why i have no money :p 14:05:44 the thing is that most of the places one could encounter the necessary tech to gain experience... are the places that require 5 years experience with it 14:06:11 p_l|backup: I gained experience by hacking in my spare time. So far, it seems to have worked :) 14:06:38 sykopomp: can you hack on production HA system with expensive hardware in spare time? :D 14:07:16 p_l|backup: Internship -> different position in same company -> move up? 14:07:37 <|3b|> yeah, entry-level positions is one option 14:08:08 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@78.251.44.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:08:11 or positions with transferable experience. 14:08:29 I wish I could find the kind of job I had after HS. Most of the work was cable-monkey style, but it was fun and yes, it included such experience :D 14:08:58 slash_ [~unknown@pD955D2FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:05 you could just sacrifice your programmer happiness and do C# or Java 14:09:19 Guthur: I'm currently looking at sysadmin jobs 14:09:25 aka UNRECOVERY 14:09:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@134.61.66.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:09:51 Yep, I actually had the same thought, sysadmin would be better than C# or java 14:10:10 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-108-76-70-124.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:52 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 14:10:55 ... query on indeed.com for "lisp programmer" gave surprisingly many results 14:11:02 I'm doing C# though, not overly enamored with the outcome though 14:11:05 |3b|: I'm going to improve the handling of punctuation. I'd just rather not just srtip them out. 14:11:10 strip 14:11:23 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-108-76-77-177.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:11:31 Guthur: what kind? 14:12:15 maintaining a client/server application for online option trading, not very glamorous 14:12:47 is it possibl to coerce an array/list to values? (coerce '(1 2 3) 'values) => TYPEP: invalid type specification VALUES 14:13:11 beelike: multiple values are something you return, not a first-class data structure 14:13:12 <|3b|> clhs values-list 14:13:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_vals_l.htm 14:13:45 p_l|backup: I do also maintain the clrzmq2 binding for ZeromMQ 14:14:36 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@nat/cisco/x-qfmygzulbpfwhkgt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:16:03 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:16:13 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 14:16:57 nice 14:17:21 so if I had an array and wanted to get values I have to do (values-list (coerce ara 'list)) ? 14:17:23 Postmodernist [d07a2382@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.122.35.130] has joined #lisp 14:17:24 array* 14:17:44 What's good for server-side web dev in Lisp? 14:18:00 Guthur: now, if only it was customary in Poland to provide possible pay in job ad... 14:18:08 beelike: yes 14:18:09 <|3b|> yeah, have to convert to a list to pass to values-list 14:18:25 p_l|backup: Are you not in the UK anymore? 14:18:30 Postmodernist: Hunchentoot is good when you are beginning (there are others, some framework-specific, some require deeper understanding) 14:18:34 Guthur: not at the moment 14:18:37 Hi, wondering if anyone could look over this and tell me if you see any obvious improvements: http://pastebin.com/ZkPHVjhm 14:18:52 Guthur: also... I have to find a way to deal with unpaid UK taxes ^^; 14:19:18 (I didn't get the UTR, then missed the time, due to being in Poland due to health issues) 14:19:47 Tordek: UNLESS has an implicit progn. 14:20:41 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-122.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:21:24 Postmodernist: I recommend you go with Hunchentoot, simply because it's the most common lisp webserver, used by most of other code. You can build a simple (or not so simple) webapp with just Hunchentoot and some logic outputting HTML/JS/JSON/whatever 14:21:42 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-122.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 14:21:43 Xach: thanks 14:23:43 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-108-76-70-124.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 14:24:02 ramus [~ramus@adsl-108-76-70-124.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:12 (btw, I see that a's job is probably better served by an array, but since k's usually small in my use case, it's not too relevant) 14:24:13 loke_ [~elias@bb116-15-153-196.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:24:16 p_l|backup: oh, tax man issue are never nice, hope you can get it sorted out ok 14:24:35 Guthur: Yeah, currently I'm thinking of how to do it without paying the £100 fee :P 14:24:58 -!- loke [~elias@bb116-14-205-127.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:14 -!- rumina [~rumina@88-148-219-26.bb.dnainternet.fi] has left #lisp 14:25:20 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A248.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:13 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.47.160] has joined #lisp 14:27:42 pnq [~nick@AC812D17.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:28:57 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:32:41 -!- superjudge [~mjl@195.22.80.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:33:36 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-122.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:34:08 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:34:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:35:05 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:26 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 14:35:42 p_l|backup: I broke for (orders of magnitude) more than $300 millions of hardware this week end, getting experience on my spare time. 14:36:16 Translation from franglish? 14:36:25 p_l|backup: Nowadays, a $1000 computer system let you simulate effectively even the most costly real hardware. 14:37:06 (Translation: I got killed several times aboard Su-33 and Su-27 planes on Lock On Flaming Cliffs 2). 14:37:12 haha 14:37:26 p_l|backup: just fetch the right simulator. 14:38:23 the last thing I had flown was SZD-50-3 (IRL) and Space Shuttle (simulated) ^_- 14:38:59 though there are cases where it can be hard to get the software (like Mainframes) 14:39:31 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-146-153.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:39:35 Yes, but there's no technical impossibilities anymore. 14:39:42 How long does it take to get up and running writing web applications in Lisp if one is well-versed in C and Java? 14:40:09 Postmodernist: Slightly longer than if you know nothing of C and Java. 14:40:09 Postmodernist: the more versed you are in C and Java the longer it takes 14:40:12 p_l|backup: time to browse your Mitnick. 14:40:23 Postmodernist: the time required to learn CL and think up a webapp 14:40:24 -:-( 14:40:35 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:47 10 years. 14:41:00 Postmodernist: simple webapps would be collections of functions generating HTML code on requests 14:41:04 What are some reasons why I should? 14:41:16 Postmodernist: you probably should not. 14:41:24 I mean, if you want to get hired, what you need is LAMP. 14:41:47 On the other hand, if you want to compete with LAMP companies with thousands of monkeys, you alone, then lisp is for you. 14:41:53 pjb: I am a senior partner in a company. I can get hired to code in whatever I want. 14:41:58 err, get paid 14:42:05 pjb: or go for Java/RoR world 14:42:28 -!- lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:52 Postmodernist: Well, first reason: it's funnier in lisp than in any other programming language. 14:43:11 Postmodernist: second reason: you will be able to do more with less people. 14:43:16 (myfunc arg1 arg2 arg2) seems reasonable enough 14:43:32 Because Lisp code is more concise? 14:43:39 Postmodernist: third reason: even if the competition buys you out, they will have to keep you to maintain the crown jewels >:-} 14:43:45 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-98-246.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:43:57 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:50 Postmodernist: not exactly concise (I think Haskell is more concise). More like you can reimplement by yourself stuff that others need long-term projects for 14:44:58 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:45:29 Well, it's still 30 times more concise than C or C++... 14:45:54 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:46:07 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 14:46:13 Good morning, all. 14:49:52 lichtblau: is there a (with-output-to-string ...)-like form that I can use with cxml:make-octet-stream-sink? 14:50:17 slyrus: thre's something like this in cesarum. 14:50:20 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:53 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:51:00 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-94-111.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:30 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-191-34-172.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:59 with-input-from-byte-vector and with-output-to-byte-vector in http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=85819c547421ad72c17153aea443c1252cae98c2&hb=7c3d4719bbaa534b42c8882a17c7dc983acfb7ab&f=common-lisp/cesarum/stream.lisp 14:52:17 grr [~4e01ad57@ns1.smartcall.bg] has joined #lisp 14:52:33 But you won't like it, it doesn't use STREAM or gray streams, but it's own BVSTREAM and I/O. 14:53:03 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-221-49.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:21 hrm... ok 14:53:35 pjb: You have to do something about those ugly URLs. 14:53:41 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:53:49 Yes, I have to find another git viewer... 14:53:50 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:54:02 or make a clone on github or whatever. 14:54:40 metamark.net works 14:54:53 unobtrusive tinyurl clone 14:56:04 In fact: http://xrl.us/bjyqig (Link to git.informatimago.com) 14:56:17 ChibaPet: too far in the other direction 14:56:30 or you could go the other way with hashify 14:56:41 ChibaPet: it should be something like pjb.org/cl/cesarium/stream.lisp 14:57:00 That would be ideal, but presumably lots more work. 14:57:05 *udzinari* is surprised to see sbcl google ad, nice one 14:57:06 That's what I hoped with viewgit. There's probably one who does it correctly. 14:57:10 I'm comfortable demanding that work from pjb. 14:57:16 hehe 14:57:20 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:57:28 udzinari: nice 14:57:35 *Xach* wonders who spent their adwords on that 14:57:41 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:59:05 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:59:29 make-octet-vector-sink is what I was looking for 15:00:13 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:00:26 udzinari: For a time, searching for "guy steele" would produce a "Work at Google" ad. 15:00:39 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 15:01:02 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:01:15 glidesurfer [~rosario@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:52 Xach: that's an interesting strategy :) 15:02:30 udzinari: same with "donald knuth". i guess that was all the way back in 2003. 15:02:37 (how time flies) 15:04:52 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:51 *udzinari* didn't even know who donald knuth was in 2003 15:05:58 -!- gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:06:29 And now he's your homeboy. 15:06:55 if only :) 15:07:25 gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has joined #lisp 15:07:47 that is one hell of a set on playlist 15:08:00 proper dark new age jungle 15:08:08 oops wrong channel 15:08:41 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:09:13 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-jpyiuwgnqmkxgakk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:09:16 -!- gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has quit [Client Quit] 15:09:25 urandom__ [~user@p548A6E57.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:38 gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has joined #lisp 15:10:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:10:56 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-xmkrojkghtgtaetl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:11:03 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:12:38 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:12:52 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:13:08 -!- jikanter [~quassel@66.146.192.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:11 ... wowzers. My old startup company *still exists* 15:13:34 ... and they once again posted the same job ad 15:14:00 if they are passionate, I'm eating my hat 15:14:09 ikki [~ikki@189.247.145.12] has joined #lisp 15:16:09 ... technically, I never resigned, though... 15:16:18 A lisp company? 15:17:21 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-kxfyxfoilbtoqkda] has joined #lisp 15:17:39 Xach: ... If I delivered the code in CL, it would be a lisp company 15:17:59 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.47.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:20:40 I wonder if I still have the code 15:20:48 what is the best gui library for CL? 15:21:12 the best has not been written yet 15:21:24 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-87-96.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:27 (and most probably never will be) 15:21:32 bsod1: IMHO? CAPI looks very fine. Except for the >$1000 price tag :) 15:21:51 it's not the best possible, but seems nice so far for me 15:21:53 omg 15:22:12 CAPI is what people use when they want to write Windows GUI CL programs to sell for money. 15:22:47 so any free alternatives? 15:22:51 Xach: or write single GUI for Linux, Windows and OSX easily? :) 15:23:37 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-221-49.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:23:52 bsod1: try commonQT, http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ 15:23:52 p_l|backup: does anyone do that? 15:24:20 bsod1: there are libraries for gtk and qt, like cl-gtk2 and commonqt. there's a tk library called ltk. 15:24:49 bsod1: If someone has used them to write a useful and popular CL program, I haven't noticed it yet. 15:25:05 :) so you don't write gui apps? 15:25:36 bsod1: gui tends to be the browser much too much 15:25:43 CAPI looks rather good on OSX, from the screenshot on LW website 15:25:43 yay. I can issue a query of my carddav server and parse the resulting vcard. 15:26:29 Xach: there are some commercial developements. Personally, I had at least one idea that if I could ensure enough clients (and someone to do japanese translation), I'd have tried for a loan to buy LW for win and mac 15:27:00 I was wondering if anyone here writes commercial CL software.. 15:27:15 i assume CAPI is not available with the PE version of LW 15:27:16 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ssdlwolbogmfieqw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:27:33 bsod1: indeed they do 15:27:48 Guthur: it's available 15:27:58 (IDE is built with it) 15:30:42 Xach: anyway, I definitely would have a lot of use of LW and CAPI :) 15:30:48 abhinav [~abhinav@nat/cisco/x-umixrpnxhbyouivd] has joined #lisp 15:31:07 bsod1: this channel is not the whole cl community though, many people are on respective mailing lists etc. 15:31:45 Good advice might be "try one and see if you like it". I'd personally want to try a Qt wrapper. 15:32:06 bsod1: Xach for example gets apparently quite a lot of money from few web apps (quite a lot compared to what one would expect, that is) 15:32:16 ChibaPet: have you tried ECL's EQL? 15:32:27 I haven't yet. Will note it. 15:32:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 15:33:07 There's of course also CommonQT 15:34:19 -!- pnq [~nick@AC812D17.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:35:01 p_l|backup: wow, webapps with CL? is there a framework for webapps? 15:35:25 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@nat/cisco/x-umixrpnxhbyouivd] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:35:32 -!- joachifm [~joachim@212.7.195.193] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:35:41 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7555fa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:51 bsod1: there's acurse of "it's too easy to make your own framework" ;-) 15:35:54 bsod1: many, check out http://www.cliki.net/Web 15:36:01 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 15:36:01 though the most common shared element seems to be Hunchentoot 15:36:10 abhinav [~abhinav@nat/cisco/x-bboybuhibfipjekb] has joined #lisp 15:36:18 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:36:45 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-175.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:36:54 Hunchentoot, YACLML, Parenscript, some json lib, and something for writing frontend (possibly scratch out YACLML and Parenscript if you do a fully-ajaxy frontend) is enough to drive quite a lot 15:37:08 -!- msmith [~msmith@75-150-13-105-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 15:37:23 You still have to bring the good ideas. 15:37:33 they are not quicklisp-installable 15:37:43 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-kxfyxfoilbtoqkda] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:10 hehehe 15:38:13 ..yet!? 15:38:19 quickidea:invent 15:39:28 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Client Quit] 15:40:17 homie [~levgue@78.35.173.150] has joined #lisp 15:40:44 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.248.64] has joined #lisp 15:41:03 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.114.105] has joined #lisp 15:41:13 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:41:40 Xach can you make quicklisp pull down 'good ideas' as well 15:41:48 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:10 HG` [~HG@p5DC057EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:45 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-193-133.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:43:11 best source - something you encountered yourself and you want to have a way around :) 15:43:41 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:44:17 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:44:19 though personally what I'm writing recently is slightly off on both 15:44:41 I don't see space for yet-another-ERP solution, and the other... is a secret 15:45:28 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 15:46:11 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.160.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:47:26 nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-54-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:48:26 -!- greaver [~J@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] 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#lisp 16:09:17 -!- Postmodernist [d07a2382@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.122.35.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 251 seconds] 16:09:35 -!- alama [~alama@131.174.138.232] has quit [Quit: alama] 16:09:41 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 16:12:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12:59 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 16:14:35 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@212.143.220.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:17:11 xan_ [~xan@75.16.26.133] has joined #lisp 16:17:30 paul0 [~user@187.58.226.149] has joined #lisp 16:18:40 Landr [~user@78-21-55-79.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:19:33 -!- makks_ [~max@p5790F42D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:21:36 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has joined #lisp 16:23:09 oudeis [~oudeis@87.68.46.136.cable.012.net.il] has joined #lisp 16:24:19 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:21 Can I do something like (minf #'cadr '((a 10) (b 4) (c 20))) => (b 4) with loop macro? or is there a built-in function which does this? 16:24:32 Bronsa [~brace@host90-174-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:24:55 -!- akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-093-204.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:26:13 aliudalius [~user@c-75-72-166-36.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:24 kenjin2201: yes, you can use loop 16:26:31 <|3b|> you have to do it by hand when using LOOP, iterate can minimize based on a function of the item (like #'second in this case) 16:26:59 kenjin2201: (cl-utilities:extremum '((a 10) (b 4) (c 20)) #'< :key #'second) 16:28:02 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955D2FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:29:32 Thank you all 16:31:02 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 16:33:02 topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has joined #lisp 16:33:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.145.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:35:12 -!- aliudalius [~user@c-75-72-166-36.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 16:36:49 macrocat [~marmalade@99.192.104.86] has joined #lisp 16:37:22 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:38:29 pnq [~nick@dubnium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 16:38:30 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:40:23 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:33 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:41 where I can find the documentation of cl-html-parse? http://www.cliki.net/CL-HTML-Parse 16:43:15 paul0: There might not be any. 16:43:29 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:43:35 paul0: Actually, it has a README in the source. 16:44:26 hmm, ht-simple-ajax appears to be ... well, simple :> 16:44:36 it wraps its output in a html-document format 16:44:47 shouldn't really do that, just gimme the output, i'll plug it somewhere myself 16:44:55 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@87.68.46.136.cable.012.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:45:03 Xach: thanks, I'm reading it now 16:45:30 ikki [~ikki@189.139.221.29] has joined #lisp 16:46:11 oudeis [~oudeis@DSL212-143-220-8.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 16:47:09 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@DSL212-143-220-8.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 16:47:52 enthymeme [~kraken@pool-173-51-221-118.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:01 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-87-96.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:56:10 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-9-200.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:57 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:02:06 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7555fa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:04 -!- pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:05:03 -!- sellout1 is now known as sellout 17:05:23 wetnosed_ [~kai@e179023024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:07:11 -!- wetnosed [~kai@e179018215.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:08:04 I was fortuned to use php for a couple things that run serverside and spit out html, javascript, json, and sql, and read in html, javascript, json and sql replies, in some sequence. 17:08:32 Is there a common lisp option for that sort of thing or should I just learn ruby? 17:08:40 alama [~alama@n138232.science.ru.nl] has joined #lisp 17:09:26 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.114.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:40 derekv: the list of things that do those was mentioned above? 17:09:44 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-9-200.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:09:53 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-178-151.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:13 -!- paul0 [~user@187.58.226.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:26 Amadiro [~Amadiro@80.213.121.141] has joined #lisp 17:10:40 carlocci [~nes@93.37.219.228] has joined #lisp 17:11:15 minion: please tell derekv about hunchentoot 17:11:16 derekv: look at hunchentoot: Hunchentoot is a robust and easy to use HTTP server. http://www.cliki.net/hunchentoot 17:11:51 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 17:12:13 oGMo, sykopomp : thanks just needed a place to start. 17:12:17 parenscript, cl-who, hunchentoot, etc 17:12:29 (don't say google) =] 17:12:46 there's a load of sql interfaces and other stuff .. lisp on the web is easy 17:13:20 derekv: postmodern for postgresql, yaclml for markup, parenscript to write javascript with s-exps. 17:13:20 derekv: no, but cliki.net and cl-user.net 17:13:26 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-125-145.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 17:13:48 clws for websockets ;P 17:13:54 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-111-212.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:33 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-178-151.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:16:45 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:16:46 Yea I woke up this morning thinking about it , I thought of a structure to represent html, json etc that would be trivial to write the html string out from, and relativity easy to parse stuff in... but i need to stop reinventing the wheel (and ending up with nothing as a result usually) 17:16:55 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-167-179.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:25 Reinventing the wheel is why dragsters use soft rubber tires that expand when spun to increase diameter. 17:18:29 thats not... 17:19:09 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has joined #lisp 17:19:19 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-111-212.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:19:27 mark__ [~markskilb@host217-43-219-126.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:01 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:20:17 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-jxjkbrtrhhvrhwjr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:20:49 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 17:21:55 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:24:15 derekv: lucky for you, html is trivial to express in sexp form! 17:24:33 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:37 rhetorically I wonder if I should shift careers so I don't end up needing to use crap like php professionally 17:24:49 easier said than done (career) 17:25:07 that's what drewc did, and just look at him today! 17:25:08 gigamonkey [~user@99.17.204.200] has joined #lisp 17:25:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-175.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:26:18 wetnosed [~kai@f052100178.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:27:06 should I ask? 17:27:07 -!- wetnosed_ [~kai@e179023024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:27:36 <|3b|> he does web stuff in lisp now 17:27:38 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:01 Also, he lives on a boat. 17:28:19 -!- pnq [~nick@dubnium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:28:20 pnq1 [~nick@dubnium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 17:28:39 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 17:28:59 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:29:05 bwahohohohew (envy laugh) 17:29:40 unless the living on a boat is not voluntary 17:30:00 captured by pirates and forced to code 17:30:20 quite voluntary, I think (: 17:30:23 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:32:03 wetnosed_ [~kai@e179025155.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:32:39 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 17:33:37 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@78.175.218.228] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:33:59 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[~kai@e179024013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:44:00 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has joined #lisp 17:44:44 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 17:44:44 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 17:44:44 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 17:45:45 -!- wetnosed [~kai@e179009139.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:47:27 -!- wetnosed_ [~kai@e179024013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:47:34 wetnosed [~kai@e179024013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:47:50 foom: thanks for the example usage of __register_frame (: 17:48:01 billitch [~billitch@78.250.203.30] has joined #lisp 17:51:11 OliverUv [fuckident@69.70.212.98] has joined #lisp 17:52:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-6-208.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 17:52:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-6-208.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 17:52:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:53:54 postmoder 17:54:03 ops 17:54:05 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:54:19 postmoder: beyond zoot suits. 17:55:55 paul0: there's pretty good documentation for closure-html 17:56:36 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC057EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:57:20 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75.119.101.164] has joined #lisp 17:58:25 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:59:01 Guthur [~Guthur@host81-131-242-39.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:01:00 wetnosed_ [~kai@e179007199.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:39 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 18:01:58 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02:23 -!- gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:02:39 -!- wetnosed [~kai@e179024013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:03:12 there's quite a lot here to look over. 18:03:38 TippenEin [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:50 its nice outside, here's where an ereader would be nice 18:05:24 tty234_ [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-gkllzlpwsqpurujt] has joined #lisp 18:05:30 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:31 -!- topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:31 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:31 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:31 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-59-249.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:31 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@203-217-69-111.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:31 -!- larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:31 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:31 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:32 -!- yesimnathan [~nathan@184-106-199-134.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:32 -!- tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-atddcitaeahscnfu] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:36 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-59-249.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:06:10 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:06:14 yesimnathan [~nathan@184-106-199-134.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:19 pixel qi screens :) 18:06:37 larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:52 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 18:07:00 I just got a netbook with one. 18:07:00 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:07:25 sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:16 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 18:08:28 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has joined #lisp 18:08:39 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:52 ltriant [~ltriant@203-217-69-111.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 18:08:53 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 18:08:53 topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has joined #lisp 18:09:34 pkhuong: where ? 18:11:26 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0116.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 18:11:45 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:11:45 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:11:58 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75.119.101.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12:42 fe[nl]ix: . I'm using in a sideproject of mine that parses object files to generate specialised load/fixup code ;) 18:12:51 dstatyvka [ejabberd@91.194.72.7] has joined #lisp 18:15:10 clearly, you are canadian (-: 18:15:42 foom ain't 18:15:46 xpf [~xpf@host-9.net-112.ryazan.skylink.ru] has joined #lisp 18:15:56 awwww 18:16:11 it's not his fault 18:16:13 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0116.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:16:33 tcr [~tcr@217.162.131.235] has joined #lisp 18:16:52 -!- TippenEin [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756]] 18:18:12 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:45 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host90-174-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:19:30 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 18:19:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:20:31 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:39 wetnosed [~kai@e179016032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:51 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:20:55 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:21:16 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has joined #lisp 18:21:16 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has quit [Client Quit] 18:22:09 -!- wetnosed_ [~kai@e179007199.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:02 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:11 wetnosed_ [~kai@e179015216.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:24:23 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:44 -!- wetnosed [~kai@e179016032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:26:31 -!- xpf [~xpf@host-9.net-112.ryazan.skylink.ru] has left #lisp 18:27:33 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:30:51 -!- pnq [~nick@dubnium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:30:56 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:31:11 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:32:43 glidesurfer1 [~rosario@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:59 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:00 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:34:00 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 18:34:15 wetnosed [~kai@f052097145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:00 stis [~stis@host-95-201-112-88.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:35:29 -!- bubo [~bubo@178-191-149-184.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:36:01 -!- wetnosed_ [~kai@e179015216.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:36:47 -!- glidesurfer [~rosario@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:36:55 pnq [~nick@dubnium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 18:42:03 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:42:49 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 18:44:12 wetnosed_ [~kai@e179005025.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:44:57 -!- wetnosed [~kai@f052097145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:46:11 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:46:56 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:48:35 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:49:21 LiamH [~none@132.250.138.103] has joined #lisp 18:49:36 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:51:00 atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has joined #lisp 18:52:05 Bronsa_ [~brace@host90-174-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:55:05 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:59:51 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.203.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:03:45 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:05:05 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 19:05:05 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 19:05:05 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 19:06:25 -!- glidesurfer1 [~rosario@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:10:32 (setf (gethash (cons 1 1) *table*) 1) and then (gethash (cons 1 1) *table*) returns nil nil, do you know why? 19:11:08 bsod1: did you create the table with :test 'equal? 19:11:08 bsod1: read about the :test argument of make-hash-table 19:11:29 tcr: dlowe: thanks 19:14:10 I'm trying to draw a tic-tac-toe table on the screen, is loop the best way to this? I tried to use format but it looks worse than loop 19:15:10 In ASCII, you mean? 19:15:16 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.114.105] has joined #lisp 19:15:48 TeMPOraL [~user@178.181.0.199.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:16:15 Bike: yes 19:16:16 bsod1: LOOP loops. FORMAT formats. 19:17:12 agumonkey [agumonkey@64.158.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:21 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 19:22:37 -!- agumonkey [agumonkey@64.158.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [] 19:22:42 agumonkey [agumonkey@64.158.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:46 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:50 (FORMAT also loops) 19:24:44 -!- agumonkey [agumonkey@64.158.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:26:57 agumonkey [agumonkey@64.158.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:56 -!- xinming [~hyy@218.73.130.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:28:33 xinming [~hyy@218.73.130.96] has joined #lisp 19:29:20 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:31:12 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-xyhpzrtuuibzhgow] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:17 -!- Bronsa_ [~brace@host90-174-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:31:35 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@96.233.183.125] has joined #lisp 19:31:35 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@96.233.183.125] has quit [Changing host] 19:31:35 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 19:31:40 Bronsa [~brace@host90-174-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:32:30 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host90-174-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:34:07 brown [~user@nat/google/x-axslxdjogapavkow] has joined #lisp 19:34:34 -!- brown is now known as Guest15751 19:35:10 billitch [~billitch@78.251.133.151] has joined #lisp 19:35:16 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 19:35:42 cesarbp_ [~chatzilla@189.247.114.105] has joined #lisp 19:35:47 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:35:51 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.114.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35:54 -!- cesarbp_ is now known as cesarbp 19:36:00 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Client Quit] 19:36:34 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:43:29 wzergw [~hynek@ip-62-245-66-12.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:44:14 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:44:23 -!- pnq [~nick@dubnium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:44:38 -!- Guest15751 is now known as reb 19:44:46 pnq [~nick@206.21.94.105] has joined #lisp 19:45:03 -!- agumonkey [agumonkey@64.158.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [] 19:45:03 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 19:45:03 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 19:45:03 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:46:20 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:47:32 -!- Mococa [c8df6182@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.223.97.130] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:53:56 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-68.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:54:06 Can it really be true that i need to require packages before i can :use them in my defpackage? I've previously loaded cl-ppcre with quicklisp, and now, in a new process, i try to evaluate (defpackage #:testpack (:use #:cl-ppcre)), and it says cl-ppcre doesn't designate a package. 19:54:22 The package needs to exist. 19:54:37 Which means you need to have loaded/evaluated the code that creates the package you want to use. 19:55:10 Munksgaard: http://weitz.de/packages.html 19:56:33 hmm... i thought you could just install a package with asdf or quicklisp, and then :use it? require works fine 19:56:48 tcr: thx, will read 19:59:11 -!- Bike [~arm@69.166.35.237] has quit [Quit: back in some.] 19:59:28 ibews [~ibews@p4FDDCCB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:59 -!- ibews [~ibews@p4FDDCCB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:00:23 Munksgaard: you should definitely read that link. But the short version is, loading cl-ppcre with quicklisp or ASDF is something you'll need to do each time you start Lisp (unless you dump an image with it loaded and use that.) 20:00:45 Normally this would be accomplished by your own .asd files stating the dependency on cl-ppcre. 20:00:56 So when you load your code, it gets loaded automatically. 20:01:39 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:51 Hunden [~Hunden@p5B103A2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:00 Hundenn [~Hunden@91.16.58.46] has joined #lisp 20:06:22 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.128.80] has joined #lisp 20:06:50 gigamonkey, tcr: Thanks guys, mind enlightened. 20:08:45 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-68.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:09:24 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 20:12:31 -!- stis [~stis@host-95-201-112-88.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:42 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:51 -!- homie [~levgue@78.35.173.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:20 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:29:07 -!- alama [~alama@n138232.science.ru.nl] has quit [Quit: alama] 20:33:52 Salamander [~Salamande@118.210.189.170] has joined #lisp 20:33:53 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-167-179.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:34:18 stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-58-40.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 20:34:19 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:34:29 -!- stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-58-40.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Changing host] 20:34:30 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:35:48 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:36:58 francogrex [~user@109.130.70.136] has joined #lisp 20:36:58 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 20:37:21 -!- topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:37:46 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:39:58 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:42 -!- [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:49 xpf [~xpf@host-122.net-112.ryazan.skylink.ru] has joined #lisp 20:48:44 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 20:49:53 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:51:33 -!- timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:51:39 [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 20:51:42 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 20:54:26 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.251.133.151] has left #lisp 20:55:41 dabd [~dabd@a79-169-209-120.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 20:56:23 -!- dabd [~dabd@a79-169-209-120.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:39 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:07 -!- joebo [cf3af714@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.58.247.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:16 guys, I will present a mathematical model to my boss tomorrow (an epidemic modeling in cl), it's simple but I'm afraid it's ugly and although boss is not a lisper he still can recognize a shitty code and will give wrong impression. Can someone pls have a look and give hints/suggestion on style/improvements? would be appreciated 21:00:33 the code here: http://francoatgrex.tripod.com 21:01:01 is your boss a member of #lisp Style Police? 21:01:58 would be called like that: (SIR 0.01 1 0 0.335 0.003 35 0.9 1/5 75000) for example 21:02:14 no he's not but he has a good programming background 21:02:27 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:03:17 maybe just worrying because it's an important evaluation it may be 21:03:26 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:40 astalla [~astalla@94.36.56.102] has joined #lisp 21:04:15 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@91.194.72.7] has left #lisp 21:04:20 -!- rme [rme@clozure-F0982C22.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 21:04:20 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-94-111.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 21:04:32 i'd say that a function which is called with nine randomly looking numbers is a bad API 21:04:34 problem is I copied pieces of the algorithm and the Runge_Kutta is translated from a C code 21:05:00 stassats: :( yes I didn't like it either 21:05:23 it was a quick hack, just did it this evening 21:05:35 using keyword parameters would be better 21:05:50 ok, yes good 21:06:03 wil change to add keyword 21:07:42 and using setf within a function is ok? 21:07:45 and, regarding the code itself, it does look like C indeed 21:09:12 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 21:09:16 *francogrex* is doomed. 21:09:55 (dotimes (i 3) ...) looks to be recurring, can't it be abstracted away? 21:11:47 and why is it "gamm" and not "gamma"? 21:12:25 should be gamma, was a typin error. ok I think the 4 dotimes can be grouped into just 1 21:12:26 and (floor (/ a b)) == (floor a b) 21:13:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15:28 the probem I can't group the dotimes because (setf dPop (Diff tmpPop beta gamma)) has to be called several times outside the loop of 3 21:15:46 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:15:58 well has to be called once (not several times) 21:16:01 i wasn't talking about grouping, but abstracting 21:16:36 you're using 3 as a magic number there 21:17:00 that can very well go into a constant 21:17:12 yes 3: S suceptible, I infected and R recovered 21:17:21 (defconstant +three+ 3) 21:17:23 in general, if you want to write understandable code, break it down into small understandable pieces 21:18:28 tcr: exactly! 21:18:39 (defconstant +pi-enough+ 3) 21:18:42 who knows? 21:18:43 that way, you can easily change it to 4, in case the natural numbers change (: 21:19:38 (defconstant +pi-lot+ 3.2d0) 21:20:42 ok 21:21:25 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@91.16.58.46] has quit [Quit: • :: www.unitedservers.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::] 21:21:42 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-faxfaciuxbvfaezd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:21:53 Xach: Just noticed there's no mention of quicklisp here: http://www.xach.com/lisp/zs3/. Apparently, it's asdf-installable! 21:21:59 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-yjvrwbzromcaprxy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:22:34 oh my - you'll have to quickload asdf-install then (; 21:22:35 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@118.210.189.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:23:06 sykopomp: Xach is the only one who knows all the flaws of quicklisp 21:23:24 so, maybe it's not ready for zs3 yet 21:23:50 mustapha_ [~mustapha@unaffiliated/mustapha] has joined #lisp 21:24:01 Ah, this channel is specific to cl 21:24:11 it is indeed 21:24:11 -!- mustapha_ is now known as baus 21:24:22 it's encouraging that some people actually read /topic. 21:24:28 baus: kudos 21:24:30 pirxs [~pirx@195.225.69.9] has joined #lisp 21:24:38 Bike [~arm@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 21:25:03 rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:18 I wanted to ask about "teach yourself scheme in fixnum days". Also looking into gigamonkey's book, so I'll convey any questions regarding that sooner or later 21:25:24 sykopomp: others overflow their stack 21:25:53 there's #scheme for scheme questions 21:26:11 stassats: Certainly. I'm aware, and have also asked re: fixnum, there. 21:26:58 *stassats* wonders how small were fixnums at the time of writing that book 21:28:13 i don't imagine 1152921504606846975 days is reasonable 21:28:35 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:29:29 I think the point is that you don't spend ages incrementing the counter... thereby increasing the time you spend learning (: 21:31:56 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 21:31:58 All relatively decent points, albeit nothing to do with the document in question. 21:32:51 not really, no (: 21:32:51 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-hthdekrheegllplm] has joined #lisp 21:32:52 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-ovbhpnanelxcoozx] has joined #lisp 21:33:15 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:33:45 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.70.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:46 also, learning scheme in bignum days would scare away a bunch more people 21:33:56 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:59 hmm, sbcl doesn't like evaluating 4 after (set-macro-character #\4 nil), it says "The variable |4| is unbound" 21:34:03 seeing as it's 1152921504606846976 days and above (: 21:34:23 hahaha 21:34:36 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-149-70.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:42 that seems like a really bad idea. 21:34:49 it shouldn't accept NIL at all 21:35:24 madManchegan [~Home@host-130-92.njerlta.clients.pavlovmedia.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:24 set-macro-character has no Exceptional Situations specified 21:35:51 -!- baus [~mustapha@unaffiliated/mustapha] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:35:54 mustapha [~mustapha@unaffiliated/mustapha] has joined #lisp 21:36:38 but it does accept only function designators, so i would suppose it would be a good idea to check them for boundness, which SBCL actually does for other symbols 21:36:39 ah, hm, I think I see your point 21:37:01 -!- madManchegan [~Home@host-130-92.njerlta.clients.pavlovmedia.net] has left #lisp 21:37:04 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:37:36 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-hthdekrheegllplm] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:37:41 hu.wim.perec is... overwhelming 21:39:10 that's probably better than underwhelming 21:39:25 yeah 21:39:31 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@99.199.165.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:51 well, I've just found that I can add PostGIS support through few defuns, defclasses and defmethods 21:40:13 SMOP, as they call it 21:40:57 SMOP? SQL MOP ? 21:40:58 lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 21:41:14 mustapha_ [~mustapha@unaffiliated/mustapha] has joined #lisp 21:41:20 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:41:21 -!- mustapha [~mustapha@unaffiliated/mustapha] has quit [Quit: [BX] Save water -- drink beer!] 21:41:27 that would be nasty 21:41:42 Small Matter of Programming 21:41:44 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:41:55 heh 21:41:55 ok, the issue with set-macro-character is clear, but that doesn't answer my initial inquiry about removing a macro-function from a character 21:42:51 (set-syntax-from-char #\4 #\5) works 21:43:52 *stassats* got his REPL unhosed 21:44:22 yeah you should use set-syntax-from-char for that 21:44:57 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-149-70.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:45:02 tessier_ [~treed@216.105.40.123] has joined #lisp 21:45:06 -!- tessier_ [~treed@216.105.40.123] has quit [Client Quit] 21:45:13 somebody should add this to a list of quiz questions: "(set-macro-character #\3 (lambda (&rest args) 4)). Now what do you do?" 21:45:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-175.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:45:45 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-144-149.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:18 You never heard of my proposal for a number-macrolet? 21:46:29 ... sounds like a great way to make 2+2=5 :D 21:46:29 maybe 21:46:33 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:49:32 c|mell [~cmell@cable-77-77-253-169.dynamic.telemach.ba] has joined #lisp 21:51:45 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 21:52:49 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-092-076-066-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:30 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:54:41 mathrick: hi 21:56:58 zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:57:00 p_l|backup: i find (define-symbol-macro 2+2 '=5) better 21:57:31 heh 21:57:47 defconstant? 21:57:52 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:58:42 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 21:59:36 (defconstant +2+2+ 5), (+ 4 +2+2+ 1) => 10 21:59:38 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:44 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 22:00:45 I've heard you can do that in INTERCAL. 22:01:20 if you ask nicely? 22:01:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:01:40 Undoubtedly :P 22:01:45 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: good night] 22:02:00 Demosthenes [~demo@12.181.218.2] has joined #lisp 22:02:43 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:03:26 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:06 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz] 22:06:05 -!- xpf [~xpf@host-122.net-112.ryazan.skylink.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:07:56 zmv_ [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:08:17 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:08:26 Salamander_ [~Salamande@118.210.147.194] has joined #lisp 22:08:54 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-144-149.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:36 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:12:43 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:37 paul0 [~user@187.58.226.149] has joined #lisp 22:14:34 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.132.6.52] has joined #lisp 22:17:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.132.6.52] has quit [Changing host] 22:17:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:18:38 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 22:19:31 is there a generic nth/char etc function that will work with string, array, list? 22:20:20 elt will work on sequences 22:21:15 nice thanks 22:21:19 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has left #lisp 22:21:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:21:55 aref will work on arrays, but not on lists 22:22:00 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.114.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:22:08 (strings are arrays) 22:22:41 OmegaApeX [OmegaApeX@95.180.139.67] has joined #lisp 22:22:44 -!- OmegaApeX [OmegaApeX@95.180.139.67] has quit [] 22:24:39 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-193-133.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:19 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:28:30 -!- Fullma [~fullma@82.66.69.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:28:55 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:29:56 Reading the Lisp 1.5 manual... when did s-expressions become the norm? 22:30:41 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@nat/cisco/x-bboybuhibfipjekb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:31:39 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:33:10 Bike, lisp without s-exp, would really not be lisp 22:33:52 It defines the language with m-expressions. 22:35:32 but McCarthy's original paper only covered s-exp, he was going to cover m-exp later but never got around to it 22:35:45 -!- mustapha_ [~mustapha@unaffiliated/mustapha] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:45 that's my simple take on it anyhow 22:36:11 Huh, then I wonder why it starts with m-expressions, defining a Backus grammar and everything. It's up to an evaluator now, though... 22:36:33 Guthur: that sounds a bit religious... it's subjective, but imho sexps are not the main feature of lisp. a very handy one, both at code-editing-time and for certain algorithms at runtime, but not the definitive feature 22:37:06 What would you say is definitive? 22:37:11 attila_lendvai, but would you really say it was a lisp without s-exp 22:37:31 Guthur: ok, that's fair enough. I wouldn't... 22:37:51 -!- astalla [~astalla@94.36.56.102] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:38:00 that was really my only point, hehe 22:38:15 didn't go much deeper than that 22:38:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:39:08 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39:43 Bike: repl, possibility for defining syntactic abstractions, compiler available at runtime... stuff like those. 22:39:53 sexp syntax (but not the runtime representation!) makes the second convenient, but that's details... 22:40:23 Bike: actually, the papers go about M-Expressions, but most implemntations didn't implement them 22:41:21 basically, people did the M->S translation by themselves, with official story being that M-expression reader was to be implemented later on 22:41:21 p_l|backup: Oh, well, it's a technical manual, so i assumed that was how it was implemented. 22:41:24 (sometimes it did) 22:41:26 attila_lendvai: good things... 22:41:52 *Bike* laughed out loud reading about C#'s compiler-as-service and LINQ systems 22:42:27 attila_lendvai: is there any work done towards support of Geographical data in Perec, or do I start from scratch? 22:43:11 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.149.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:16 Bike: well, .NET has one very nice thing - the standard library includes a well-documented runtime code emit facility (which is actually used by compilers). It also has AppDomains 22:43:33 p_l|backup: not that I know of, but how is that perec related? I can see how you can use perec as a persistency backend, but... are we simply talking about a geo lib? 22:43:45 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 22:44:00 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 22:44:02 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:30 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 22:44:47 attila_lendvai: no. modern RDBMSes have support for such data, including spatial indexes 22:45:25 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host81-131-242-39.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:45:56 oh, ok. I didn't know they overstuff database engines these days... :) 22:46:27 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:46:31 attila_lendvai: it actually makes sense 22:46:37 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:47:15 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:53 p_l|backup: Meaning what? You can access the assembly code at runtime? 22:49:02 attila_lendvai: for example, in Postgres (especially with PostGIS extensions), I can make a column containing a polygon, then do a query for all rows whose polygons intersect, or fit inside another polygon, are placed in certain range, etc. 22:49:49 Bike: you can nicely construct all kinds of objects (including functions etc.) at runtime without any extra libs, as well as build complete modules iirc 22:50:05 I do recall that my friend once made a theme system for his app that parsed XML and spewed a DLL :) 22:50:19 (with the DLL containing .NET code implementing the theme) 22:50:32 Hm, I see. 22:51:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:51:45 p_l|backup: well, that's just the usual db story: pushing algorithms that require loads of data closer to the data to speed things up. (and meanwhile often flushing the baby with the water) but if it has a definite API and a sensible implementation done/debugged by other people, then I guess I don't mind... :) 22:51:47 Bike: personally, if I had to choose between .NET or Java on a platform that has both, .NET wins hands tied behind its back most of the time (I'll admit that if you have Azul co-processor...) 22:52:28 attila_lendvai: the APIs are basically functions to build apropriate types and searches, which can be used inside queries 22:52:49 there's some standard for GIS in SQL, too 22:53:35 basically, if you already have RDBMS and use it for data, and it happens to have good GIS support (Postgres has *very* good), it makes sense to go with it 22:53:52 McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 22:54:46 especially since they can keep the indexes close to data, and I prefer to do the munching on DB side, instead of pulling huge amounts of data over the net then filtering it inside application (like certain... Rails leaders) 22:58:45 -!- pirxs [~pirx@195.225.69.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:52 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:00:04 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 23:00:49 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:56 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:50 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 23:01:56 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has joined #lisp 23:02:01 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has left #lisp 23:02:06 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has joined #lisp 23:03:12 -!- algorist [~quassel@host12-35-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:05:04 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host12-35-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:09:01 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:04 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:10:42 McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:11:05 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@118.210.147.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:11:40 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12:42 algorist [~quassel@host2-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:12:49 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 23:13:11 -!- wzergw [~hynek@ip-62-245-66-12.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:29 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-228.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:16:18 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:18:56 Posterdati [~tapioca@87.10.226.2] has joined #lisp 23:20:16 -!- tcr [~tcr@217.162.131.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-228.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:18 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 23:22:45 -!- pnq [~nick@206.21.94.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:24:02 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-159-201.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:15 -!- paul0 [~user@187.58.226.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:30:40 -!- Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:31:31 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:57 -!- LiamH [~none@132.250.138.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:34:10 -!- HET2 [~diman@80.3.31.126] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:36:18 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:11 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:09 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:26 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:44:53 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:47:20 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:50:19 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:50:59 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.210.216] has quit [Quit: Zzz] 23:53:48 -!- gigamonkey [~user@99.17.204.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:54:21 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 23:54:42 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@203-217-69-111.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:57:53 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Client Quit]