00:00:45 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.67] has joined #lisp 00:00:56 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.67] has quit [Changing host] 00:00:56 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 00:01:15 is lisp worth learning? 00:01:32 Think of where you're asking. 00:01:34 yes 00:01:46 heh 00:01:55 slyrus: nothing interesting 00:02:10 bummer! 00:02:24 How much support for LISP is there on creating cross-platform apps? 00:02:27 does lisp has a library like www-mechanize in perl? 00:03:08 minion: tell cfy about drakma 00:03:12 minion? 00:03:13 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:03:18 cfy: take a look at DRAKMA 00:03:22 ... 00:03:23 The bots are all gone. 00:03:42 slyrus: drakma is just a client 00:03:50 slyrus: thx 00:03:55 grantg, there are CL systems for several architectures and OSs. 00:04:18 fe[nl]ix: what else does www-mechanize do? 00:04:33 Bike: Enough to port a project of mine to LISP for desktop use without probs? 00:04:48 Well, I don't know what your project is. 00:04:52 https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online 00:05:00 slyrus: parsing html, submitting forms 00:05:28 ah, ok 00:05:30 gameboy color emulator written in JS, would be interesting to redo it in other languages. 00:06:04 I think that would be doable. There are SDL bindings and such. 00:06:25 Audio support mature enough for LISP? 00:06:30 slyrus: do you think install library by asdf is easy? 00:06:49 cfy: use quicklisp to install the libraries, ASDF to load them 00:07:14 (well, quicklisp can load them too (via ASDF) but ASDF doesn't install them 00:07:17 ) 00:07:18 slyrus: oh. got it 00:07:33 I haven't used audio, but I know of some algorithmic composition projects in lisp, so probably. 00:08:30 Bike: Funny thing, trying to synthesize and output audio in realtime without the use of plugins in JS is hell. Anything better I guess is doable. :P 00:09:07 I just need to output raw samples in real time with simple buffer logic. 00:09:33 grantg: Try http://www.cliki.net/audio 00:09:55 thanks 00:10:21 I'm new to LISP as you can tell. :P 00:10:47 grantg: It is spelled Lisp, and it is definitely worth learning. 00:10:50 I wonder how much better perf I can get with LISP over JavaScript. lol 00:10:56 beach: thanks 00:11:45 grantg: As with any language, performance depends on (among other things) the quality of the compiler, so it is implementation-dependent. 00:11:54 This is gonna take awhile to port - https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online/blob/master/js/GameBoyCore.js :/ 00:12:16 beach: True 00:18:53 -!- maden [~maden@modemcable238.203-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:20:30 LiamH [~healy@pool-141-156-241-30.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:57 fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-238-236.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 00:24:00 -!- grantg [42e5650f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.229.101.15] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:25:59 hamsterspider [~chatzilla@pool-71-189-131-225.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:37 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:32:53 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:33:22 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.187] has joined #lisp 00:33:42 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:35:23 basho___ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-226-016.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:30 Hunden [~Hunden@p5B105832.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:40 -!- jeti` [~user@p548EBB65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:35:48 Hundenn [~Hunden@p5B105832.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:11 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-092-076-088-069.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:40:19 jpop [~jpop@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 00:41:07 hello. is there a portable way to silence "redefining macro" "warning? 00:42:44 If it appears on a known stream, rebind the stream variable to the result of (make-broadcast-stream). 00:42:48 Otherwise, no. 00:42:56 icbh [~icbh@ntszok076238.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:43:02 i am intentionally redefining it myself 00:45:27 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CBC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:45:43 isn't there something like (mask ..) that lets you silently redefine functions and macros? 00:45:58 Nope. 00:46:11 At least, not portably. 00:46:34 SBCL has something, other implementations may have something, but in each case it's their own something. 00:47:28 ok, i'm doing something somewhat nasty. i wanted to dynamically create a macro with gensymed variable it uses to avoid accidental capturing 00:47:59 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:48:25 -!- icbh [~icbh@ntszok076238.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48:32 i'll paste the code, would appreciate any suggetions how to do this in some other way 00:48:53 Use a pastebin, please. 00:50:08 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.23.23] has joined #lisp 00:51:16 beelike [~maln@78-1-154-254.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:53:41 -!- jpop [~jpop@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 00:54:08 jpop [~jpop@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 00:54:16 -!- hsrt [maln@93-138-32-72.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:31 -!- paul0` [~user@187.112.68.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:44 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit:     ] 00:59:48 here\ 00:59:56 http://pastebin.com/qFbkesXi 01:00:46 what i wanted to do is create call-original macro dynamically within wrap macro, to avoid original-func capture 01:01:20 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:20 am i crazy? any better way to do this? 01:03:06 i feel like i'm getting carried away with macros, any suggestions how to do this in a less sloppy way is appreciated 01:03:24 That wouldn't work. 01:03:37 original-func goes out of scope in the wrap macro, doesn't it? 01:03:41 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.214.146] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:03:56 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 01:03:58 yes, but lambda closes over it 01:04:23 or "captures" it, whatever the right terminology is 01:04:27 Oh, I see... that does seem very sloppy. 01:05:13 i need a way for user of wrap to call the original function 01:05:25 that's the best i could come up with 01:05:28 You could store it in the function name's plist? 01:06:16 how? not sure I understand 01:06:35 Why is call-original a macro, and not a local function? 01:06:58 Oh, that would be good too. 01:07:09 yes good idea 01:07:31 so a function in (let, right? 01:08:19 FLET. 01:08:31 why flet 01:09:33 oh i see 01:09:50 Mmm. 01:10:13 wouldn't this do the same? 01:10:20 `(let ((original-func #',function-name)) (defun call-original (&rest rest) ... 01:10:31 *nyef* shakes his head. 01:10:32 -!- rumina [~rumina@88-148-219-26.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:10:47 That will lose badly if you try to wrap more than one function. 01:11:55 i hoped that would create a function under let scope that dies with it 01:13:01 I think you need to use FLET for CALL-ORIGINAL, and a LET binding to hold the original function, and use a GENSYM for the variable in the LET binding. 01:13:20 yes. i'm on it 01:14:22 What's a better name for a CL design-by-contract lib than "Clontract"? Because that one sucks. 01:14:41 CL-by-contract? 01:15:38 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:16:21 -!- lusory [~bart@bb219-74-124-74.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:17:24 Why is this the hardest part of coding? 01:17:57 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@203-217-69-111.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:18:13 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-125-253.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 01:18:45 How about "fine-print"? 01:18:58 Sounds too much like a pretty-printer  01:20:30 http://pastebin.com/hNPSJL5p 01:20:34 looks good? 01:20:49 much better than my original one 01:22:59 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:23:27 replore [~replore@116.82.67.34] has joined #lisp 01:23:55 can flet be used to temporarily mask functions? 01:24:25 portably 01:27:10 *|3b|* isn't sure you are allowed to FLET bind fbound symbols from CL: 01:27:19 can someone take a look at this page and tell if its compatiable with clozurecl 01:27:47 «flet can locally shadow a global function name, and the new definition can refer to the global definition.» 01:27:51 http://www.lifezero.org/journal/2010/5/11/weaponizing-lisp-part-i.html 01:28:52 <|3b|> yeah, disallowed per http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/11_abab.htm 01:29:01 <|3b|> #2 01:29:37 Isn't that just for CL functions, not CL-USER ones? 01:29:46 oh, wait, no, I see. 01:30:43 <|3b|> that is for stuff exported from CL, but i'd avoid messing with stuff that is in cl-user by default too, since it is probably implementation packages 01:31:01 Avoid cl-user anyway, just because you don't know what's in it. 01:31:34 <|3b|> yeah, that too 01:32:12 -!- basho___ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-226-016.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:07 <|3b|> one reason not to want to bind stuff from CL is that you don't know how they might be used by macros from CL, which might rely on specific implementation defined behavior in the functions in CL 01:33:28 <|3b|> so if you shadow it then expand the macro, stuff breaks 01:34:23 would what i did above be possible in scheme? or is that the difference between hygienic and unhygienic macros 01:38:51 benny` [~benny@i577A8496.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:39:01 <|3b|> nixfreak: newLISP isn't CL, so it won't work directly, you could probably do the same things, possibly with help from some libraries 01:39:49 hmm ok 01:40:11 -!- benny [~benny@i577A859E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:40:12 <|3b|> (newLISP seems aimed more at 'scripting language' so probably has more convenience stuff built in) 01:40:16 do you a good networking lib? 01:40:44 -!- benny` is now known as benny 01:40:44 *|3b|* used iolib, usocket is also popular 01:41:19 kk 01:41:38 |3b|, it has dynamic scoping built in as the default, pretty cool eh 01:42:18 what newLispp 01:42:53 it is the new lisp 01:43:02 sporting One Reference Only gc 01:43:21 its only scripting though and can't be compiled 01:43:53 scripting has nothing to do with compilation 01:43:54 so what is bad about NewLisp? what are the weak points of it from an CL perpective? 01:43:59 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-130-156.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:44:14 urandom__: It's a very '60s lisp. 01:44:32 no closures, dynamic scoping, functions are lists and not functions 01:45:16 And the GC bears mentioning again. 01:45:16 functions are lists is bad? 01:45:38 Yes! Compilers were invented for a reason. 01:47:18 urandom__, it is like having numbers as character strings 01:47:19 You start with newLISP, and you end as black hat... 01:48:39 I thought the black hats were the ones that embedded scheme interpreters into their malware? 01:49:25 Same here, but with newLISP... 01:49:29 Quadrescence can you give me some example of where functions as lists are a bad thing? sory its late here, its not obvious for me 01:50:14 urandom__, it is a very naive way of representing functions 01:50:29 Not all lists are functions. 01:50:38 Not all functions are lists. 01:50:57 the second thing pjb is the most important 01:51:01 (funcall '(1 2 3)) (car #) 01:53:48 so NewLisp devs made a mistake or do they have a reason for the functions are lists thing? 01:54:13 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-141-156-241-30.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:54:36 Ignorance? 01:54:41 Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-145-224-209.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:59 ok, might be 01:55:12 urandom__: I don't know about newLisp, but most people who design programming languages don't have a clue about how to do it, it seems. 01:56:47 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:58:01 i gues it is a good thing that my urge on making my own programming language lead me to learn about other languages first and discovering there are already some sane languages i can use 01:58:35 urandom__: That's what happened to me. I was working on a language, then started looking into metaprogramming and *BAM* Lisp. 02:00:05 -!- jpop [~jpop@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 02:02:47 beach you are from Vietnam, are you? 02:03:41 urandom__: I wouldn't say that exactly, no. But that's where I am right now. I no longer know where I am "from". 02:03:52 sellout, you are such a sellout 02:04:44 Weren't functions usually lists in primitive lisps? 02:05:04 beach can you tell me what happened after the war in vietnam, how is it today? 02:05:12 yes, hence the comment about it being a 60s lisp 02:05:27 i read you teach lisp at university or something 02:05:32 ah, missed that, sorry. 02:05:34 urandom__: It is off-topic. And I have only been here for a few months. 02:06:17 urandom__: Now, it looks like a perfectly modern place. I bit poorer than western Europe and North America, but otherwise not too bad. 02:06:47 urandom__: I do use Lisp in my teaching sometimes, yes. 02:07:43 there arent any other ongoing lisp-related discussions here, so off-topic should be ok 02:08:13 they have some kind of market-socialism, do they? 02:09:40 I suppose it could be called that. It looks like pure capitalism to me. Anyway, to stay on topic, I am trying to convince the Vietnamese to use Lisp so that they can compete with the west not only with lower salaries, but with higher productivity as well. 02:10:16 -!- chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:11:19 does it look like they can be convinced? 02:13:52 The ones I get to, yes, I think so. But there are too few of them at the moment. 02:14:37 here in Germany its just C++ and Java all the way, sometimes some haskell if they want to go into functional programming but also only for teaching, really sad 02:16:28 i wonder if i should add haskell on my list of langs to learn 02:17:42 Definitely! 02:18:48 why dont they use lisp in China, i mean its like higher productivitiy for free? or do they? 02:19:08 what is nice about haskell? 02:22:02 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:22:30 urandom__, most people dont use lisp because of the parentheses 02:23:00 I am not being facetious either. 02:23:49 <|3b|> /most/ people don't like it because they aren't programmers :p 02:24:19 most people don't like it because it makes you sound funny 02:24:54 Haskell's pattern matching is interesting, and high support for metafunctions. 02:25:18 metafunctions? 02:25:42 I think he means functions producing functions MAYBE 02:26:10 -!- hamsterspider [~chatzilla@pool-71-189-131-225.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:26:22 Yeah, like primitive composition and so on 02:26:24 I always recommend Standard ML over Haskell just because it is much smaller, very well defined, and has some practical things for dealing with practical things 02:26:44 Quadrescence i dont think it has something to do with the parentheses other than people make fun of it, ALGOL-based langs are far wors with their {} and [], () and stuff wildly mixed together 02:26:46 Though you can do that in Lisp too, of course 02:27:02 urandom__, trust me, it has a lot to do with parentheses 02:27:35 "ugh that syntax is so ugly why do i have to type (+ 1 2) and not just 1+2 that's 4 chars less" 02:27:44 Quadrescence: It has a lot to do with humans being irrational 02:27:56 drdo, yes, that is correct 02:28:08 Just look around you and you'll see all sorts of irrational behaviour, including from yourself 02:28:41 most definitely, for example, I did not fix my car's headlight today 02:29:23 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:29:26 Quadrescence: infix syntax is nice if you write very small things, it gets really hard to read really fast as you write bigger things 02:29:46 Quadrescence that might work for north-american spoiled kids but i dont thing Chinese people are able to be ignorant about stuff that easily increases their productivity 02:29:52 drdo, yes, *I* understand, I am just relaying the reasoning of a lot of people 02:30:09 Not to mention that's not even the argument 02:30:20 Most languages use prefix 02:30:26 except for a very small number of operators 02:31:07 drdo, most languages have a variety of syntaxes and forms 02:31:31 prefix doesnt dominate other languages whatsoever 02:32:31 -!- replore [~replore@116.82.67.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:32:38 you have function application, typically f(x,...), but you dont very often see very deeply nested functions, since you have the aid of assignment and stuff. 02:33:15 Quadrescence: You also have assignment in lisp 02:33:37 And you can do exactly the same sort of stuff 02:33:51 That is right, and with some programmers, they most definitely program in the "fortran style" 02:34:16 (multiple-value-bind (a b) (values 1 2) (multiple-value-bind (c d) (values 3 4) (print (list a b c d)))) 02:34:19 is there a nicer way of writing that? 02:34:33 sure 02:34:39 (print (list 1 2 3 4)) 02:34:57 awesome 02:35:05 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:13 is there a nicer way to write (multiple-value-bind (a b) f (multiple-value-bind (c d) g (print (list a b c d)))) 02:35:23 -!- ASau [~user@93-80-248-41.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:37:59 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:38:43 (print (multiple-value-call #'list f g)) ? 02:40:23 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5C16.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:35 if it wasn't clear from the question I want to assign two (or more) separate (values ..) to variables 02:41:04 do I need separate multiple-value-bind form for each? 02:41:04 and what do you want to do with those values? 02:43:08 beelike, sounds like it's time to write a macro! 02:43:45 multiple-multiple-value-bind ? 02:45:49 forms-values-bind 02:45:51 :) 02:54:21 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:59:02 wuj [~wuj@207.172.162.191] has joined #lisp 03:00:03 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:01:09 makks_ [~max@p5DE8EF98.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:29 -!- makks [~max@p5DE8EB4C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:02:46 -!- panike [~nwp@76.201.158.192] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:05:13 mephisto [~mephisto@kd-v135-130-63-240-107.airyork.yorku.ca] has joined #lisp 03:08:45 LiamH [~healy@pool-141-156-241-30.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:40 icbh [~icbh@ntszok076238.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:20:43 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:46 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:26:55 -!- xan_ [~xan@c-24-5-71-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:30:10 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 03:30:46 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.194] has quit [Quit: Offline] 03:35:07 zenlunatic [~justin@68.48.40.231] has joined #lisp 03:37:54 -!- mephisto [~mephisto@kd-v135-130-63-240-107.airyork.yorku.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:39:29 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:31 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.248.64] has joined #lisp 03:41:29 Triplefault_ [~Mouse@adsl-145-219-162.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:55 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:45:33 -!- Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-145-224-209.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:47:09 duckinator [nick@botters/staff/duckinator] has joined #lisp 03:47:28 -!- duckinator [nick@botters/staff/duckinator] has left #lisp 03:51:05 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:20 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54:47 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 03:58:06 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:59:38 usausa [~user@71.116.97.55] has joined #lisp 04:00:32 -!- usausa [~user@71.116.97.55] has left #lisp 04:01:09 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 04:02:18 bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:44 -!- nyef [~nyef@64.222.131.96] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:03:21 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA27552.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:06:33 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:06:33 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 04:10:45 -!- wuj [~wuj@207.172.162.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:13:11 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:13:19 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 04:23:17 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 04:23:43 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:04 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-236-32.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 04:28:58 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-238-236.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:34:08 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-186-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:56 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-141-156-241-30.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:37:40 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz] 04:42:52 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:45:35 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:46:20 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:48:55 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:09 xak466 [~opera@16.30.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:51:40 hi. I am a lisp newbie. I'm trying out hunchentoot but it seems to hang when i do start-server 04:51:46 i'm using clisp 04:51:58 can someone advise me? 04:52:15 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:53:06 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 04:53:10 Sounds like threads. 04:53:21 Make sure huchentoot and clisp agree on that issue. 04:53:45 what should i do 04:53:57 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:12 You could exercise your literary abilities. 04:54:42 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:07 how can i make them agree on threads? 04:55:08 markskilbeck [~markskilb@host86-141-75-61.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 04:55:08 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@host86-141-75-61.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 04:55:08 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 04:55:29 If only someone had written down documents describing how these systems work ... 04:57:31 ok let me ask it differently. 04:57:40 is there any way to make clisp and hunchentoot work together? 04:57:48 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 04:57:49 rather, hunchentoot to work on lisp 04:57:54 *clisp 04:57:54 sorry 04:58:09 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:59:35 -!- Quadrescence [~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: qqqqssss] 05:04:00 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:48 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@24.208.248.193] has joined #lisp 05:06:11 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-119-17.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:06:11 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 05:07:09 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-2.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:05 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-2.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:10:10 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-231-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:29 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-2.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:31 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@24.208.248.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:10:31 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 05:11:15 -!- icbh [~icbh@ntszok076238.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:11:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-138.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:11:36 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-2.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:11:59 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-2.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:01 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 05:15:31 xak466: When you say it hangs, do you just mean that you don't get the Lisp prompt back? 05:16:10 xak466: When it "hangs", does it listen to the port, so that you can connect to the server using a browser? 05:24:24 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-2.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:53 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-2.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:25:53 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 05:27:13 superjudge [~mjl@83.250.110.188] has joined #lisp 05:31:50 -!- superjudge [~mjl@83.250.110.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:32:38 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:34:48 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@180.184.25.64] has joined #lisp 05:36:04 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-138.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:57:47 Liera [~Liera@113.172.38.206] has joined #lisp 06:01:12 beach: yes 06:09:05 xak466: then it's working. It's just that, without threads, CLISP can't both run hunchentoot and run a REPL. 06:09:21 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.124] has joined #lisp 06:10:12 ohhh ok. 06:10:34 pkhuong: so how can i test hunchentoot then? 06:10:56 Set it running and then load up localhost in your browser? 06:11:21 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-15-205-67.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:11:23 so i'm in repl 06:11:29 and i say (start-server...etc) 06:11:32 then the prompt hangs, correct? 06:11:48 so i open up my browser to the port where it's listening 06:11:49 It's not that it hangs, per se, it's just engaged in running the server. 06:11:58 yes so it is running the server 06:12:04 Should be. 06:12:06 Areil [~user@113.172.38.206] has joined #lisp 06:12:06 then i open my browser to the port 06:12:19 then my lisp process goes to 100% cpu usage 06:12:28 but nothing comes up on the browser 06:13:06 when i kill hunchentoot, the connection aborts on the browser 06:13:13 which means it's connecting 06:13:17 but hasn't given a response 06:13:21 i think 06:13:35 Did you set up a page for Hunchentoot to display? 06:13:47 there should be a default at root, no? 06:13:51 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.23.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:14:25 I don't understand what you mean. 06:14:41 so i didn't set up any page to display 06:15:06 i've just run (hunchentoot:start (make instance 'hunchentoot:acceptor :port 8000)) 06:17:07 make-instance, you mean, yes? 06:17:19 yes 06:18:05 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:19:01 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 06:19:10 Hm 06:19:24 There is a default page, and hunchentoot seems to spawn a thread itself. 06:19:32 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-186-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:20:27 so i don't even see a default page 06:20:31 all i see is the browser connecting 06:20:38 and the browser waiting for a response 06:21:25 You said you were on Windows? 06:21:49 no linux 06:23:07 Well, I think Hunchentoot uses bordeaux-threads, which apparently doesn't work in GNU CLISP. 06:23:45 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:25:36 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 06:26:41 so there's no way i can run hunchentoot on clisp? 06:26:47 what would be a good lisp to run it on then? 06:26:59 xak466: I use SBCL, and it works fine. 06:27:27 Too bad it just didn't die with a dependency failure 06:28:49 oh yeah it works on sbcl 06:28:59 ok how can i do autocomplete in sbcl? 06:29:18 Getting emacs seems to be the norm. 06:29:19 xak466: Use SBCL. 06:29:21 xak466: Use SLIME 06:29:23 er, I mean SLIME 06:29:45 *beach* now expects "but I am a VIM user". 06:29:52 beach: Was thinking the same :P 06:30:41 yea actually i am a vim user 06:30:50 but im open to trying emacs 06:31:21 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:31:36 SLIME is a nice interface, though i continue with vim 'cos it's quicker. SBCL's regular reader is kind of bad. 06:31:58 vim is quicker? 06:32:03 What do you mean? 06:32:10 *goes and hides in a corner 06:32:48 does anyone have any experience running lisp on ia64? 06:32:56 drdo: Emacs+SLIME takes several seconds to start up on my machine (probably because I'm not versed in it, admittedly) and vim takes less keystrokes. 06:33:28 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.155.206] has joined #lisp 06:33:30 Bike: Ahmm, even if it took a full minute 06:33:40 I open emacs like once per week 06:33:47 It's always open 06:33:53 What does it matter if it takes a couple of seconds? 06:34:08 Eh, that's not how my usage patterns go. 06:34:09 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:34:10 Why are you closing it? 06:34:19 i wouldn't mind learning to use emacs to a point where i open it once a week 06:34:27 how do you do that sorta thing 06:34:43 (as in keep it running all the time) 06:34:45 I only open it when i have to reboot for some reason 06:35:07 And it doesn't take that long, it's about a second here until it's fully ready 06:35:22 ok ive just apt-get slime... someone tell me how to start it up 06:35:41 xak466: You might want to install slime through quicklisp 06:35:50 owh 06:36:50 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.34] has joined #lisp 06:37:11 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:37:58 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:37 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:06 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45:36 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 06:45:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 06:45:36 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:49:18 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit 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[~Guthur@host81-131-242-39.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:16:18 Does anyone have examples of parsers using (cl-)parser-combinators? 08:16:19 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 08:16:25 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host81-131-242-39.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:22:48 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 08:24:39 alama [~alama@ip4dab5c2d.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 08:25:52 -!- saterus [~saterus@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:26:42 saterus [~saterus@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 08:27:37 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.179.61] has joined #lisp 08:29:23 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:29:48 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:31:08 Guthur [~Guthur@host81-131-242-39.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:32:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:40:39 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 08:41:57 I've (in-package foo) (defmethod bar) (in-package baz) (defmethod bar), each with different specializes) but when I call (foo quux), it says "there's no definition for (foo:bar quux)" or something of the sort. Why isn't the definition in baz:bar being called? 08:42:07 ltriant [~ltriant@203-217-69-111.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:42:17 i'm giving ccl a try; trying it instead of sbcl (which i've been using for some time) 08:43:20 Tordek: you mean when you call (bar quux) 08:43:22 ? 08:43:36 Bike: er, that, yes 08:44:09 Maybe if the generic is in foo? 08:44:13 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:45:15 Tordek: Were you hoping the two methods would be methods on the same generic function? 08:45:18 the generic is in foo, sbcl says there's no specialized (foo:bar quux); (bar quux) is defined in baz 08:45:23 beach: yeah 08:45:51 Tordek: Then the symbol bar better be available in both packages. 08:48:43 Tordek: Did you arrange for the bar symbol to be the same in both packages? 08:48:44 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:53 gko` [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:00 any tips for debugging with hunchentoot? i find it difficult to debug it when it's using multiple threads 08:49:16 beach: not at first, but now that you mentioned so, I tried, and I'm not getting it :/ 08:49:33 (I defined a third package that defines the generic that both packages :use) 08:49:47 Tordek: You are confused. 08:50:00 beach: understatement 08:50:12 Tordek: You have to arrange for the symbol BAR to be the same in both your packages. Defining a generic function in a third package isn't going to do that. 08:51:31 alama, there is a few settings to make hunchentoot produce greater debug information 08:51:38 Tordek: Symbols aren't automatically exported from packages. Defining a generic function in a package certainly doesn't automatically export its name. 08:52:18 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.179.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52:32 alama, You could also output your own debug info to *debug-io* when so desired 08:52:41 Guthur: i'm aware of some of the variables used to control debugging; my main issue is the difficulty of debugging stuff in multiple threads; 08:53:01 i run hunchentoot with multiple threads, but somehow getting my hands on those is difficult 08:53:12 beach: I've exported everything from all packages, fwiw 08:53:16 (defpackage :bazfoo (:export #:bar)) (defpackage :foo (:use :cl :bazfoo)) (defpackage :baz (:use :cl :bazfoo)) (eq (intern "BAR" :foo) (intern "BAR :baz)) => T 08:53:21 the debug output that sbcl produces when running in multiple threads is not ideal 08:53:45 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-130.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:55:09 (modulo missing ending doublequote for the last "BAR") 08:55:28 Tordek: Show us the package definitions. 08:55:54 perhaps i should just not run hunchentoot with multiple threads 08:56:11 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-152-199.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:56:50 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:57:17 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 08:58:48 beach: http://pastebin.com/9RtXSLUp 09:00:12 Tordek: Export #:render from only one package, typically #:game. 09:01:00 Tordek: Where is player defined? 09:01:26 Tordek: And ship. 09:01:37 beach: I just ommited the class definitions; player class is in-package player and ship class in-package ship 09:01:48 Tordek: you're missing :cl from :use 09:02:26 that code doesn't even load, because defgeneric in game is game:defgeneric, not cl:defgeneric 09:02:43 alama, I can't really say to be honest, there probably isn't really any easy fix 09:03:06 Tordek: I suspect you have omitted some things as nikodemus is pointing out. 09:03:07 Guthur: that's what i thought, thanks 09:03:12 nikodemus: they're all :use-ing cl; I ommited it 09:03:44 Tordek: can't tell what's wrong if you don't show use the code that you actually have 09:03:45 Tordek: OK, so where and how do you call render when you get the error? 09:03:52 SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:24 you don't have to show *everything*, but enough to actually demonstrate the problem 09:04:41 beach: in another package, that :uses cl, game, ship, and player; I call (render (make-instance 'player)) 09:05:26 Tordek: But the symbol player isn't exported from the player package, so how can you make an instance of it like that? 09:05:41 beach: ok, hold on a minute, then 09:06:40 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.179.61] has joined #lisp 09:07:22 Guthur: how do you debug hunchentoot-based code? 09:08:15 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-248-115.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:08:42 usually just with the 2 suggestions mentioned above; setting the hunchentoot debug variables and *debug-io* 09:08:42 beach nikodemus: http://pastebin.com/nLLGXUiX 09:09:29 Guthur: oh, i didn't know about *debug-io* 09:09:32 what's that used for? 09:10:37 I don't really do anything too complex to be fair, my recent usage has been building a proxy to facilitate testing a HTTP comms based client/server application 09:11:38 -!- Bike [~arm_of_th@71-38-158-155.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 09:11:59 cool 09:12:13 what do you set *debug-io* to? 09:12:39 Tordek: And where is it that you get the error? 09:12:52 I'm trying to remember to be honest, I might leave it as default, the code is in work, give me 5 mins and I remote in to check 09:13:02 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 09:13:11 k, thanks 09:13:32 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0079.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 09:13:37 There is no applicable method for the generic function 09:13:37 # 09:13:37 when called with arguments 09:13:38 ((#)). 09:14:19 beach: which would happen in the (defmethod render) in render.lisp 09:17:03 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757ddd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-237.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:19 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0079.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:19:27 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:21:18 beach? 09:21:32 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:38 I don't see an obvious problem. 09:21:51 -!- konr` [~user@187.88.243.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:22:09 :/ well, thanks; i'm gonna hit the sack 09:22:18 g'nite, g'luck 09:22:25 Sorry! 09:22:48 no need to apologize; thanks for the effort :) 09:22:59 alama, sorry, I forgot, I don't have my wee password device, can't log on remotely 09:23:12 Guthur: np, thanks for checking 09:24:30 whatever I set it to it outputs to different buffer than the REPL 09:25:05 i think it is *inferior-lisp* 09:25:27 Tordek: look at NEW-GAME 09:25:28 sorry I can't provide the details 09:25:52 ok 09:26:02 it doesn't return the game, but rather a list: (#) 09:26:03 what lisp are you using? 09:26:11 nikodemus: dang. thanks 09:26:23 the error you're getting is saying that there is no method on RENDER specialized on lists 09:27:05 nikodemus: I knew as soon as I started writing that let that I'd forget to return game. 09:27:35 now I get a different error. that's a good thing 09:27:38 thanks :) 09:27:41 it can be hard to spot since it's displaying the arguments as list in the error message: ((#)) vs (#) 09:29:03 alama, CCL for that project 09:29:17 Guthur: ah, cool, that's what i'm experimenting with now 09:32:44 nikodemus: I totally missed it. 09:37:06 how can I convert a string to a list? 09:39:10 (coerce "foo" 'list) 09:39:49 lol, just wanted to write the same with the same string. 09:40:08 "foo" must be hardcoded in the human species. 09:40:32 nikodemus: thanks, what are other options for 'list in (coerce) ? 09:44:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:44:33 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:44:54 clhs: coerce 09:45:43 hm, bots missing in action 09:45:44 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_coerce.htm 09:46:27 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.136.21] has joined #lisp 09:46:31 how can I know if the parameter of function is a list or not? 09:46:37 bsod1: basically, (coerce sequence a-sequence-type) is the once that makes sense 09:47:32 (coerce number a-float-type) makes sense too 09:48:01 the others you're better of ignoring 09:48:43 "unless you know what and why you're doing", of course :) 09:49:28 bsod1: (listp arg) can tell you that -- if i understand what you're asking 09:49:51 but... if you find yourself converting strings to lists, the odds are you're doing something wrong 09:49:58 nikodemus: listp, great 09:50:00 like trying to use MAPCAR on a string 09:50:06 nikodemus: I wrote a function to detect palindromes 09:50:29 are there any CL libraries that provide geometric font rendering (OpenGL)? 09:50:44 nikodemus: I think the lisp way to iterate a list, string, or any sequence is using map, right? 09:50:54 yep 09:51:30 nikodemus: how many map functions are there in common lisp? map, mapc, mapcar, maplist... 09:56:17 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.83.104.119] has joined #lisp 09:56:25 i don't know all the funky list ones offhand. i use mapcar, mapcan, mapc regularly, never found much use for the others 09:57:05 for other sequences there's map and map-into. there's maphash for hash-tables (but it doesn't return a hash-table -- it just iterates over the keys and values) 09:58:07 but i use reduce, position*, find*, and remove* much more often than map or map-into 09:59:48 mark__ [~markskilb@host81-152-185-25.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:01:17 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:06:27 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:06:58 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:10:19 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@89.129.116.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:13:00 lichtblau: i'm having some type trouble with cxml-stp: http://pastebin.com/ZG0a2LAL 10:14:32 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-226-016.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:11 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 10:16:33 -!- Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:17:31 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 10:17:49 is slime supposed to be compiled or not? 10:18:10 xale: the makefile does it for you 10:18:20 alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@89.129.116.150] has joined #lisp 10:18:31 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-130.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:18:40 but there is no makefile. 10:19:55 xale: oh. right, sorry. Just adding the stuff from the README suffices (i.e. no compilation) 10:20:09 I just reread the instructions 10:20:16 has been a while since I've set it up 10:20:18 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 10:20:34 xale: see swank-loader.lisp 10:21:13 ah, I mean the emacs side. it seems to be a bit slow. 10:22:00 some tight-loop functions are compiled specifially 10:22:19 what seems slow to you? Are you on a 21st century machine? 10:22:48 (not saying you're wrong - just checking assumptions) 10:23:02 frankly I'm not really sure whether it's slime or something else in emacs. 10:23:22 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:24:25 just typing the text in some places is slowish. 10:24:45 and it constantly blinks the modeline. 10:24:47 Vutral [j18SCqpswu@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:54 paste.lisp.org is broken, where should I paste my lisp code(I want to ask you something) 10:26:03 xale: showing the arglist? 10:26:25 -!- ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:26:29 no. typing text into a comment block. 10:26:31 you are emacs-speak safy? so you know the difference between echo area and modeline? 10:28:04 can anyone help me about error in this code? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/377211/ 10:28:27 tcr: while talking about slime speed issues ... C-c C-c takes ages running regexps for me 10:29:07 bsod1: Perhaps you could tell us what error you are observing? 10:29:20 I'm trying to get 'elp' to provide more data. 10:29:21 beach: ; Evaluation aborted on # 10:29:30 beach: input is '(a a b b c) 10:29:43 beach: it should return '(a b c) 10:29:50 although, generally emacs on a mac is not super-fast, and this might be related. 10:30:34 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 10:30:51 bsod1: You compute the append of last-list and (car first-list) and first-list can be a list of something other that lists, so you append a list and a non list. 10:32:01 beach: great, thanks 10:32:06 I didn't know that I need a list for append 10:32:26 You don't, but if you don't do that, the result is not a proper list. 10:33:20 ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has joined #lisp 10:33:21 -!- Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-32-125-145.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:34:20 ok. restarting emacs helped. 10:35:12 nikodemus: (setq font-lock-verbose nil) 10:35:26 what does "1" in the slime-modeline-string mean? a connection number? 10:35:51 codetonowhere [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:35:54 chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 10:36:19 might be number of slime evaluating threads 10:36:29 look for slime-modeline-* in the source 10:37:44 tcr: thanks. might it make sense to bind that in a few places? 10:37:56 lichtblau: hmm, this seems to be a difference between ccl and sbcl: the same example works just fine in sbcl 10:38:51 for some reason this "1" keeps flashing when I type in some places in a buffer! 10:38:56 but not in the other places! 10:40:12 alama: is that the problem where I'm using (setf find-class) more liberally than clozure wants me to? 10:40:46 (there's a good reason for writing the code that way -- I just can't recall what it is!) 10:41:16 lichtblau: i'm not sure; that could be right 10:44:19 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:44:20 Say hello to another Quicklisp convert. Just tried it on Friday. Nothing to Hunchentoot in a few minutes. Yowza! 10:44:32 billstclair: awesome! 10:44:37 i'm a hunchentoot user myself 10:45:23 I haven't written any Hunchentoot code yet for my new project. Just finished data conversion, of my Drupal blog into files containing plists. 10:45:36 lichtblau: looks like the last cxml function that gets applied before the debugger is raised is CXML-STP:FILTER-CHILDREN 10:45:42 do you do some setf magic in there? 10:45:48 https://github.com/billstclair/Lisplog 10:45:54 Plan to use html-template 10:45:56 I think I wanted an unexported function with the "same" name as an exported class. Throw in a secret implementation package, alias the class name over by depending on "recent" Xof fixes in SBCL nobody else supports; bingo, immediate unportability. 10:46:51 lol 10:47:01 sounds awesome :-> 10:47:07 billstclair: looks like a cool project 10:47:20 I've been getting tired of how slow Drupal is 10:47:43 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@188-195-186-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:47:52 So I'm moving back to static files, with templating for the style, and a Hunchentoot server to change content and add comments 10:48:18 Reminiscent of my old Blogmax days, but with a much more powerful tool 10:48:31 Blogmax was a simple blog template system written in emacs lisp 10:49:03 billstclair: ah, ok; last time i checked in with emacs-based blogging was when i was following emacs-muse 10:49:09 (a long time ago) 10:50:16 I used BlogMax until early 2006 10:50:32 And EditThisPage.com before that (Dave Winer's system) 10:51:21 My biggest problem with my own website tool is getting attractive CSS. Not good at that myself 10:51:36 Lots of stuff out there, but most of it sucks 10:52:08 I found only one Drupal theme I could stand 10:52:55 anyone tried cl-ftgl library for font rendering, I'm seeing artifacts with the demo rendering? 10:53:04 lichtblau: well, consider this a feature request: make cxml-stp work on ccl :-> 10:54:15 I've been doing development via SSH to a screen-preserved lisp on a remote system. Doing local development has been a real joy. Instant everything 10:54:40 And Quicklisp completely removes the library problem 10:54:56 billstclair: yeah, ql is great 10:54:58 I can just write my own code and use whatever I need 10:55:16 I had heard exclamations before, but never checked it out until Friday. 10:56:39 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has joined #lisp 10:56:52 Maybe this project will convince me to get the CCL dependencies out of FSDB, and get it added to Quicklisp 10:57:09 File System DataBase 10:57:38 (db-get db path ...) 10:57:52 Reads a file from a base dir in db 10:57:58 setf'able, of course 10:58:05 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:58:09 lgy [~lgy@121.167.134.3] has joined #lisp 10:58:10 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:00:24 what's fsdb? 11:00:38 -!- [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:00:41 I just said 11:00:58 Very simple mechanism for treating the file system as a database. 11:01:01 [df] [~df@81.187.8.163] has joined #lisp 11:01:16 Has locking, for single-process access 11:01:37 I may eventually add Patrick's optimistic locking for multiple-process access 11:01:43 nice 11:01:50 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.83.104.119] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:01:59 It's in a subdir of the github URL I posted earlier 11:02:07 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has joined #lisp 11:02:19 CCL only, but just because I've been lazy 11:03:46 Time to shower, eat, do some laundry. Then I can hack Lisplog some more 11:05:07 -!- lgy [~lgy@121.167.134.3] has quit [Quit:   .] 11:06:11 -!- siloxid [~user@unaffiliated/siloxid] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:09:04 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@m3e2436d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:11:02 topeak [~topeak@219.143.165.252] has joined #lisp 11:14:31 can anyone help me with this code? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/377233/ (I wrote my problem in comments) 11:16:23 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-248-115.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:16:23 you lose the results of an 'append' in line 6. 11:16:38 also, 'progn' is unnecessary there. 11:18:40 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 11:20:22 also, if the last argument to 'append' is not a list, you end up with a dotted list. 11:20:59 xale: thanks, but now I get different error: ; Evaluation aborted on # 11:21:36 bsod1: You have the same problem as before. Instead of maintaining lists, you occasionally replace one with the element of a list. 11:21:37 probably because you're trying to append to a dotted list. 11:21:58 bsod1: For instance, is before supposed to be a list? 11:22:06 beach: nope 11:22:37 bsod1: OK, but you still do (append sub-list (car first-list)). 11:22:48 bsod1: (car first-list) is not a list. 11:22:57 bsod1: So you are appending a list and a non-list. 11:23:13 bsod1: Which gives you something that is not a proper list, but a dotted list, as xale says. 11:25:06 bsod1: Question: you seem to be using tail recursion. Why? That style usually makes your program harder to understand. 11:25:22 bsod1: And why do you call your parameter `lit'? 11:25:58 beach: I don't know, I'm just learning common lisp and it looked like the most clear way to me. 11:26:18 beach: I don't know, I think it comes to my mind because of The Little Schemer which I read last semester 11:26:58 beach: can you write a better way to do this? I'd like to see a more lispy way 11:28:39 -!- agumonkey [~agumonkey@64.158.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [] 11:30:09 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:30:50 bsod1: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/377236/ 11:31:33 beach: wow 11:31:56 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.122] has joined #lisp 11:32:57 bsod1: It is simple inductive (as in mathematical induction) reasoning. To pack a list with just one element in it, wrap it in a list. Otherwise, pack the cdr of the list, and compare the car of the list to the car of the first element of the packed list. 11:33:03 beach: I think (list list) (line 3) is better with just (list) 11:33:26 bsod1: ? 11:33:46 they are not the same 11:34:21 (list list) means creating a list containing a single element, the value of the variable list. 11:34:26 yes but (pack '(1)) should return (1) not ((1)), or am I wrong? 11:34:44 You're wrong. 11:35:31 pack returns a list of list, not a list of atoms. 11:36:00 pjb: right, thanks 11:38:10 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.122] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:39:05 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 11:45:52 omg so if I can get a parameter named list in my function, I can still use list function.. I didn't know that. 11:46:02 now I realized that lisp-2 thing.. 11:46:57 bsod1: Actually > 2. From McCLIM: (defmethod graft ((graft graft)) graft) 11:48:28 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-226-016.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:49:10 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:49:34 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.177] has joined #lisp 11:53:57 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D61E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:58 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:51 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:04:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-19-159.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:05:03 I feel like I'm missing something... usually I iterate over vectors using loop, but is there a vector equivilant to MAPC? 12:05:41 <[df]> jtza8: map? (more equivalent to mapcar though) 12:05:58 <[df]> you can have a result-type of nil if you're using it for side effects though 12:06:30 Thanks [df] I knew I was missing something obvious. :) 12:07:15 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 12:09:34 -!- mark__ [~markskilb@host81-152-185-25.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:10:04 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw592034.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:10:31 -!- cmbntr_ [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 12:11:41 Tippenein [~chatzilla@97.65.218.14] has joined #lisp 12:16:07 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:22:31 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:23:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:28:11 fantazo__ [~fantazo@178-191-168-238.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:32:15 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-236-32.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:33:29 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:47 cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 12:34:44 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:36:02 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:36:43 -!- tomaw_ is now known as tomaw 12:36:53 pnq [~nick@ACA3991E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:28 ehu: hi! 12:37:54 Xach: hi! 12:38:03 what's up? 12:38:06 ehu: It seems that anoncvs sync is not 12:38:25 at least not for the cl-jpeg project. slyrus comitted a fix to it two days ago, so far no updates in anon. 12:38:45 ok. I'll check what's going on. thanks for the signal. 12:41:21 lichtblau: how can one specify a base directory parameter to xuriella:apply-stylesheet? 12:42:07 splittist [~splittist@AMontsouris-553-1-20-3.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:42:16 SBCL is LOADing Lisp files using ASCII. Is this just what's done, or am I screwing something up with encodings somewhere in emacs, or what? 12:43:24 Xach: running it manually now. Hope that resolves the issue. 12:44:42 clhs load 12:44:55 I would expect it to come with an :external-format argument 12:45:26 sellout: there is a special which is the encoding used for :default 12:45:56 its default value again depends on the locale settings when SBCL starts up 12:46:09 (that's my mental model at least) 12:46:14 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:46:36 Xach: well, at least this time it finished. 12:46:42 Xach: should be fixed now. 12:46:42 tcr: Right  this is all happening behind ASDF, etc., not me calling load directly. Cool, I'll check my locale. Just wanted to make sure it's something I'm expected to be able to control :) 12:46:51 I think non-ascii is a bit of a PITA because iirc ASDF does not take an :external-format 12:46:57 Duke_ [~NamelessT@AReims-552-1-31-105.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:47:05 ehu: looks great, thanks 12:47:05 -!- Duke_ [~NamelessT@AReims-552-1-31-105.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 12:47:30 *sellout* looks for Fare  12:49:33 *sellout* is just trying to spell someone's name right, but supposes he can use oe instead of ö without raising too much ire. 12:50:04 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 12:50:49 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:21 is there a better way to write this func? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/377253/ 12:53:24 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:10 bsod1: dolist + dotimes would look nicer to me 12:54:26 bsod1: updated 12:54:43 bsod1: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/377254/ 12:54:46 bsod1, (loop :for x :in '(1 2 3) :append (make-list 3 :initial-element x)) => (1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3) 12:54:59 That pastesite didn't work like I expected. 12:55:20 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/377255/ 12:56:00 so many ways! 12:56:02 Xach: Guthur: sellout: thanks 12:56:14 so, is loop a function or a macro? 12:56:27 bsod1: Think about it. 12:56:57 bsod1: I mean that sincerely, not as a "jeez, duh" kinda thing 12:56:59 sellout: actually it looks like a macro but I'm new at lisp so I don't know what a lisp function can do 12:57:04 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 12:57:37 bsod1: What features/behavior make you think it's a macro? 12:57:46 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:58:03 sellout: for, in, do keywords. is it function? o_O 12:58:36 bsod1: No, you're right. Yeah, those keywords are definitely one thing. 12:58:56 bsod1: If it was a function, they would have to be 'for or :for. 12:58:58 McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 12:59:51 bsod1: But you could still have keywords. Conditional evaluation of arguments is one tell-tale sign of a macro. 13:00:46 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:01:11 mark__ [~markskilb@host81-152-185-25.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:02:41 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:51 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has joined #lisp 13:03:12 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 13:04:18 but that can be :for :in :do, with loop, and imho look nicer that way with keyword colouring in emacs/slime 13:04:26 that/they 13:04:35 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:05:27 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.179.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:05:38 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.136.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:05:44 What's a good pastebin, since we have no lisppaste? 13:06:17 oh, what happened lisppaste? 13:06:34 is it just temporarily unavailable or permanently gone 13:06:57 Guthur: I think temporary. 13:10:40 Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:11:54 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:12:51 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:15:34 *ehu* goes to restart lisppaste 13:15:39 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:18:10 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-68.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:18:40 -!- topeak [~topeak@219.143.165.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:14 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:31 Guthur: another 10 minutes and lisppaste should be back 13:26:43 What's the proper way to generate unique ids for Rucksack? If you use a special variable like the developer suggests it will be reset when you reload the system with the same db. And any attempt to put another entry into the same db will result in RUCKSACK:BTREE-KEY-ALREADY-PRESENT-ERROR. 13:27:24 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:25 (Or is there a better solution for ORM?) 13:27:30 Anyone with SBCL or CMUCL chops want to take a whack at this error I'm getting? https://github.com/sellout/quid-pro-quo/issues/1 13:28:10 sellout: 32 bit? 13:28:46 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:48 -!- kephas [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-5-149.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:48 -!- mark__ [~markskilb@host81-152-185-25.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:28:53 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:20 ok. paste.lisp.org active again. sorry for the downtime. 13:29:25 Xach: Hrmm, yeah  30 bit FIXNUM. 13:29:32 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:29:35 mark__ [~markskilb@host81-152-185-25.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:44 -!- CrazyEddy [~Midwester@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:29:55 sellout: someone else reported a bug with the same error message last week 13:29:59 sellout: 32-bit only 13:30:00 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:30:07 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@89.129.116.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:30:15 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 13:30:21 https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/767615 13:30:23 Xach: Ah, interesting. I see it with CMUCL as well. 13:35:47 nowhere_man [pierre@92.141.200.149] has joined #lisp 13:36:06 alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@89.129.116.150] has joined #lisp 13:36:42 CrazyEddy [~nonexempt@210.8.79.105] has joined #lisp 13:36:46 -!- CrazyEddy [~nonexempt@210.8.79.105] has quit [Changing host] 13:36:46 CrazyEddy [~nonexempt@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 13:40:20 oops, sorry. not the same message. 13:40:33 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA3991E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:44:31 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:44:49 Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:45:21 Xach: Wait  you expect me to read these things? Jeez. I saw "type derivation engine" and thought, "yeah, sounds plausible", but indeed, no connection to floating point. 13:45:38 Does it seem like there's been an uptick lately of newcomers with questions about CLISP? 13:45:39 I should try with 64-bit, though. 13:48:45 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 13:49:03 Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:51:33 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53:08 -!- Tippenein [~chatzilla@97.65.218.14] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224]] 13:55:19 sellout: can you disassemble passes-invariants-p and see if it looks plausible, or if the whole function body has somehow been deleted? 13:55:45 I do not think that this is likely to be related to the floating point bug 13:56:02 gigamonkey: TPCI registers duplication of "Lisp -Scheme" requests on search engines in (IIRC) the last year. 13:56:13 gigamonkey: it seems like clisp is the default choice of many newcomers: "gnu + lisp must be good, since gnu + c is so good" 13:56:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:56:35 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-69-141-20-254.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:58:31 Krystof: Yeah, it looks like it's all just fine: https://github.com/sellout/quid-pro-quo/issues/1#issuecomment-1049941 13:59:56 Krystof: It looks like the jump is happening from an inlined function, no? 14:00:34 oh, but wait, no 14:00:45 method-functions don't take the same arglist as the generic function 14:00:52 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:52 they take (lambda (args next-methods) ...) 14:01:13 maybe you develop on an implementation with a deficient mop? ;-) 14:01:52 Krystof: Interesting, I tried reading through the mop for something like that, but couldn't find anything. 14:02:43 Or, at least, I found the description of :function very confusing. 14:02:45 gigamonkey, I'd agree with Xach, because for me it was similar, though more like, 'right, I'm on Linux what's the obvious place to look for software development stuff, ah GNU, cool GNU Lisp" ... ... "Doh" 14:02:55 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:03:18 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:22 Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:03:42 sellout: I look at closette when I find the mop spec mystifying. 14:04:06 "The function is available as a function. This function can be applied to arguments and a list of next methods using apply or funcall." 14:04:20 there's the whole make-method-lambda thing, which I believe CCL doesn't implement 14:04:30 *splittist* wonders why github hates his chrome 14:04:40 Xach: For me it was more like "Hey, there are multiple lisp implementations, lets try them. Hmm, weird. Some of them don't even use readline for their REPL" ;) 14:04:52 but basically, a method-function should take two arguments, an arglist and a list of next methods in precedence order 14:05:03 I don't know whether CCL also elides that bit 14:05:20 Krystof: these are the next methods? 14:05:26 oh sorry 14:06:24 interesting that you get a list of next methods rather than a continuation 14:06:32 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 14:06:47 Krystof: Ok, that's helpful. Thanks. 14:07:06 partly the idea is that you do (make-instance ' :function (compile nil (make-method-lambda gf (class-prototype ') '(lambda (object) (satisfies-invariants-p object))) 14:07:35 so that any necessary magic (e.g. to make call-next-method or exciting variants, such as call-beta-method or logging) automagically works 14:07:53 this bit of the MOP isn't desperately well-thought-out, and I don't really blame CCL for not implementing it 14:08:47 -!- SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: SeanTAllen] 14:09:07 SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:21 Pascal wrote "... considered harmful"; I don't think it's as bad as that, but it's definitely wonky 14:15:33 -!- SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: SeanTAllen] 14:17:49 sellout1 [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:49 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:27 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:48 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:19:48 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-130.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:35 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:50 SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:22:29 Heh. CCL doesn't implement lots of the MOP because Gail and I wrote its CLOS implementation before Gregor's book went to press, so we didn't have it to work from. Nobody has redone it, based on the MOP, since then 14:23:08 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:23:22 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:02 pnq [~nick@AC811FC8.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:24:06 c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CF422.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:37 -!- chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:25:48 Krystof: Thanks. Works perfectly now. 14:26:33 *sellout1* now tries to make MOP-compliance look less ugly. 14:26:38 -!- sellout1 is now known as sellout 14:28:27 lakatosi [53a6d29d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.166.210.157] has joined #lisp 14:28:33 hi 14:28:49 I am shocked and perplexed 14:29:03 lakatosi: That's a good starting point. 14:29:32 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 14:31:04 lakatos pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121561 14:31:38 I am just casually prototyping here 14:32:04 could someone explain to me why the second example doesn't work? 14:32:32 does lambda work with only copies of it's parameters? 14:33:00 chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 14:34:00 lakatosi: (setf x 3) changes x's binding to be 3. 14:34:09 yes 14:34:53 (setf (caadr ...) 2) takes advantage of the fact that the first argument is a place 14:34:56 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:35:02 specbot: place? 14:35:03 But during evaluation isn't x replaced by (caadr (assoc 'lakatos foo)) ? 14:35:23 lakatosi: no. it's a function, not a macro. 14:35:32 Yes, I know 14:35:55 lakatosi: x is bound to the return value of (caadr ...) 14:36:00 But isn't that how lisp code is evaluated 14:36:06 which isn't a place. 14:36:18 that car is passed to lambda (x) ... 14:36:39 Basically replacing x with that car 14:37:23 yea. but you're missing the implication of something being a 'place' 14:37:30 lakatosi_ [53a6d29d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.166.210.157] has joined #lisp 14:37:34 sorry 14:37:38 yea. but you're missing the implication of something being a 'place' 14:37:39 connection problems 14:38:13 np. 14:38:53 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:39:19 I think I understand 14:39:55 -!- splittist [~splittist@AMontsouris-553-1-20-3.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:20 ok. well, I was looking at the spec to find where this is discussed. 14:40:21 yes, I got it 14:40:28 nice. 14:41:07 -!- lakatosi [53a6d29d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.166.210.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:41:17 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 14:41:46 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 14:42:01 I guess what happens that during evaluation when the car is passed to the function the setf-able property of it gets stripped away 14:43:43 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:44:12 yep, I mixed up my normal order and applicative order evaluations :P 14:44:15 splittist [~splittist@AMontsouris-553-1-20-3.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:45:00 Damn! That's it, I won't write any more interpreters from now on :P It messes with my head 14:49:45 But then could you tell me how I can mapc through a list of numbers and modify their value? 14:53:48 lakatosi_: Why not mapcar and return a list of new numbers? 14:53:56 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-125-145.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:27 I was looking for a simple way to just map through a list and modifiying the car's directly 14:54:29 lakatosi_: Then you can setf the new list wherever you want it. 14:54:42 But I guess I can just use mapcar 14:55:32 Pff :P I was looking for a simpler way so that I can write shorter code. 14:55:44 And I forgot completely about macros :)) 14:56:20 THat's it, no more Ruby for me 14:56:32 Thanks for all the help sellout 14:58:43 slash_ [~unknown@pD955FD77.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:41 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:00:24 -!- lakatosi_ [53a6d29d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.166.210.157] 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seconds] 16:25:41 _3b, were you working on something for font rendering? 16:25:57 Krystof: Are you on github? 16:28:05 urandom__ [~user@p548A7F82.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:13 -!- Mekanik [~vov@91.79.141.199] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 16:30:26 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:56 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:32:09 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw592034.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:45 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:33:52 jmbr [~jmbr@235.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:33:59 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@235.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:59 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:38:02 Bike [~arm_of_th@71-38-158-155.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:16 tcleval [~funnyguy@177.19.98.141] has joined #lisp 16:38:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:46:34 am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 16:46:42 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 16:49:21 Ok, so since Krystof sent down my last bug so handily, heres another for CMUCL people to take a swipe at: https://github.com/sellout/quid-pro-quo/issues/2 16:49:29 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:49:56 It seems very similar to the last one, but the stack is less helpful. 16:51:03 -!- am0c_ is now known as am0c 16:51:22 Man, whenever I open LispWorks, I have to wonder how did I make this work last time? 16:52:06 nikodemus: btw, the only thing font-lock-verbose changes is the /progress output/ 16:52:35 sellout: i make it work with quicklisp! 16:53:02 Xach: How? Personal edition doesn't load an init file, right? 16:53:18 sellout: true, but i use (load "~/quicklisp/setup.lisp") as the first thing I do. 16:53:28 fontification is so fast (and message display is so slow) that the progress output makes everything slow (: 16:53:32 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:53:38 Xach: I hacked up all sorts of AppleScript and elisp to make it work in the past, but that breaks whenever there's a new version. 16:53:49 antifuchs: that's ... silly 16:53:49 Xach: Ok, good call. 16:54:04 nikodemus: or more like that's silly ..................................... done 16:54:08 hah 16:54:42 mark__ [~markskilb@host86-137-35-115.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:00 i also notice that emacs on my linux laptop is way faster in displaying that -- i can still see it, but it doesn't take forever like on osx 16:55:17 yeah. maybe it's related to font rendering as well 16:55:22 ignas [~ignas@78.63.105.97] has joined #lisp 16:55:30 does your message buffer come in a proportional font on the laptop? (: 16:55:52 if I loaded foo.lisp, defined a couple of functions and then saved an image to a disk in repl, is there a way to extract the functions I defined in repl that aren't in the lisp file? 16:56:04 i'm pretty sure i use DejaVuSans on both 16:56:33 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CF422.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:56:35 (both are laptops. i haven't owned a non-laptop in years) 16:56:55 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:57:08 well, the X front-end has been banged on by impatient people for decades (not to mention being initially developed on stone-age machines) 16:57:17 that, too 16:58:09 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:58:19 -!- gko` [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:59:27 dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:02:13 beelike: Not in general. If you want to be sure to be able to get them back, you have to do some extra work to save them. 17:04:14 bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 17:05:40 Vinnipeg [~sa1vador@79.126.101.127] has joined #lisp 17:06:36 relcomp [~chatzilla@e180072032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:11:11 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:11:28 rvirding [~chatzilla@109.58.186.255] has joined #lisp 17:11:57 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@89.129.116.150] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:12:26 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 17:12:40 rawr0xdeadbeef [~wolfbytes@97.72.154.166] has joined #lisp 17:15:06 rumina [~rumina@88-148-219-26.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:16:10 alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@89.129.116.150] has joined #lisp 17:20:59 -!- Vivitron [ad4c080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.76.8.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:21:22 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has joined #lisp 17:26:12 -!- Vinnipeg [~sa1vador@79.126.101.127] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:27:27 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:34:03 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 17:34:04 pnq [~nick@AC82060C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:05 Xach: I'm not sure whose bug is it but hu.dwim.perec.sqlite required verrazano which wasn't installed by dependencies with quicklisp. 17:36:11 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:15 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:37:41 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:14 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:38:23 naryl: I can't reproduce. Is it possible you have some non-quicklisp libraries in the mix? 17:39:20 ... Lots, sorry. 17:39:37 I'll try removing them and installing everything with quicklisp. 17:41:24 naryl: you could try (ql:use-only-quicklisp-systems) in a fresh session 17:41:50 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:41:58 (ql-dist:dependency-tree "hu.dwim.perec.sqlite") shows a lot of stuff, including verrazano 17:44:15 icbh [~icbh@ntszok076238.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:44:54 deech [~user@71-81-145-18.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:23 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:53:58 nowhereman [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-37-59.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:54:19 *hefner* noticed emacs felt a decade or two slower versus X11 after moving to OS X as well 17:54:26 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@92.141.200.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:54:40 is there something like `second` that will fetch the second value of (values ..) 17:54:52 clhs nth-value 17:54:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_nth_va.htm 17:55:27 nice thanks 17:56:10 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:56:54 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@p5B105832.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: • :: www.unitedservers.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::] 17:56:54 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@p5B105832.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: • :: www.unitedservers.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::] 18:00:31 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:01:58 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02:43 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 18:03:14 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:06:48 Hunden [~Hunden@p5B105832.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:54 Hundenn [~Hunden@p5B105832.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:15 gtklocker [~gtklocker@adsl-74.109.242.153.tellas.gr] has joined #lisp 18:07:21 hi lispers 18:08:59 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@e180072032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:59 -!- bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:10:09 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@p5B105832.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:11:43 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 18:11:51 relcomp [~chatzilla@e180057230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:14:00 ASau` [~user@93-80-248-41.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:14:18 -!- ASau [~user@93-80-248-41.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:15:52 -!- phrixos [~clarkema@unaffiliated/phrixos] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:16:35 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@e180057230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:16:51 relcomp [~chatzilla@e180059114.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:16:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@Eider.price.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 18:17:39 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.177] has joined #lisp 18:21:35 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:21:53 relcomp_ [~chatzilla@e180084061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:57 c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CCAE7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:57 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@e180059114.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:24:04 -!- relcomp_ is now known as relcomp 18:24:18 Hello Lispers! 18:25:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-222.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:25:19 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 18:25:39 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@e180084061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:04 How'th it mon_key? 18:26:43 I'm having some trouble with a macro. Need the macro to allow establishing a local var that ,@body forms can act uppon. 18:26:52 relcomp [~chatzilla@e180086071.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:27:08 Use gensym? 18:27:09 look at how with- macros do it 18:27:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:27:27 they let users of the macro specify the variable name that is available inside the body 18:27:37 Yep, and IIRC there's a good example or two in PCL. 18:27:51 expand to `(let ((,variable )) ,@body) 18:28:19 antifuchs: yeah. I will go take a glance at the with-* ... Maybe my head isn't in it today. 18:30:36 mon_key pasted "macro w/ string-case -- how to get string-case body to see the local VAR" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121565 18:33:42 That should be ,var not var in the let binding. 18:34:54 That is so that VAR will expand into the variable name the user chose. 18:34:54 mon_key annotated #121565 "forget usage examples." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121565#1 18:35:42 -!- codetonowhere [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:36:36 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:36:51 relcomp_ [~chatzilla@e180077201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:37:26 mon_key: Did that answer your question? 18:37:49 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@e180086071.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:38:03 -!- relcomp_ is now known as relcomp 18:38:50 jtza8: I don't see how simply splicing in ,var alone will work. In the second paste the where VAR is `s' it needs to be quoted... 18:39:13 -!- The_Fellow [~storm2@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:39:24 Since this is a macro, it doesn't need to be quoted. 18:39:40 It's all delayed until run-time. 18:39:46 exactly... but when i eval it it errors :) 18:39:58 kephas [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-54-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:40:35 ... what does it say then? 18:41:00 The variable S is unbound. 18:41:33 If you're using Emacs, you can expand the macro, colour-coded in a buffer. 18:41:36 I guess maybe i need a destructuring lambda list. 18:42:29 VAR will remain VAR in the macro and NOT turn into S, unless it's un-quoted. 18:43:06 jtza8: Yes, so teh question is how do get S visible to the string-case case body forms... 18:43:16 Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.221.82] has joined #lisp 18:43:42 -!- nowhereman [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-37-59.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:44:48 By using ,extent-var 18:45:49 The_Fellow [~storm2@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:48 I'm sorry - ,@cases splices in the &rest forms. These may refer to VAR but they can't see the gensym'd extent-var until macro-expansion time... I'm sure i'm missing something obvious. 18:46:55 -!- egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:48:22 mon_key: It might help to write the function out by hand once. Your template function isn't that. 18:48:41 Very good advice. 18:49:07 Xach: Do you "On Lisp" style? 18:49:13 have you tried macroexpanding your macro? 18:49:17 yes. 18:49:57 do you see the difference between what you expect and what actually happens? 18:50:01 mon_key: That question has too few words for me to understand. 18:51:01 Xach: sorry. Do you mean writing the function out in the style presented in "On Lisp"? 18:51:10 pkhuong: yes i do. 18:51:11 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:51:31 mon_key: I don't know. I mean writing the expansion by hand of what you'd like to automate with a macro. 18:52:01 gigamonkey [~user@99.17.204.200] has joined #lisp 18:52:17 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 18:52:40 mon_key: Is the problem still with VAR? Or don't I understand correctly? 18:53:48 mon_key: That is, when it is expanded. 18:54:30 xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 18:55:13 jtza8: yes, expansion time. 18:55:26 *splittist* writes (car key), giggles 18:55:29 codetonowhere [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:55:52 haha I wrote that quite a few times too but never noticed! 18:56:09 did you try (,extent-var ,var) in the LET yet? 18:56:16 jtza8: yes. 18:56:55 -!- isak [~isak@78-73-90-85-no169.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 18:57:36 DEFVAR initializes the value once. Even when the file s recompiled it remains what is was. You need to quit the Lisp for it to be reinitialized. DEFPARAMETER gets initialized each time the file get's recompiled and is usually what you want. 18:58:09 hmm, when i have .sbclrc and start maxima, it affects the whole program 18:58:19 no way around that ? 18:58:59 -!- codetonowhere [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 18:59:08 homie: don't know for sure, but you should be able to build maxima so it doesn't load your local sbcl config 18:59:10 i dumped an executable out of maxima, but when the .sbclrc is there i can't get it to start 18:59:44 homie: try with --no-user-init 19:00:01 madnificient: it is build with --xc-host=/usr/local/bin/sbcl --no-sysinit --no-userinit --dynamic-space-size 512 --control-stack-size 4 --noinform --no-linedit) 19:00:09 err " not ) 19:00:23 OK. Thanks everyone for your help. :) 19:00:26 but it does not help 19:00:46 it loads it anyway 19:01:13 i tried to pass it to maxima with -X "--no-sysinit --no-userinit ..." 19:01:18 mon_key: Well, if you don't get a solution this way, write the macro as a function as you'd like it to expand. Then re-factor from there. 19:01:20 homie: you build a core which you then load into a new sbcl instance, right? 19:01:34 won't help either, maxima mourns about runlevel or toplevel or such 19:01:51 *madnificent* doesn't know enough about it, anyone else? 19:02:17 madnificient: i edited the maxima script to not load any .sbclrc too, won't help either 19:02:43 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.221.82] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:02:49 i mean the script works as intended, maxima starts without loading the .sbclrc, but then when i dump an executable and try to start the executable it does load it again 19:02:55 mon_key: Otherwise, if you'd like an example or two, reference this URL: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/macros-defining-your-own.html#a-sample-macro-do-primes 19:03:17 homie: try to dump an image instead of an executable and see if you can work from there 19:03:28 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 19:03:38 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:04:32 and i renamed my .sbclrc to something else, started the executable and i get to the MAXIMA: prompt where i can invoke (cl-user::run) to get to maxima 19:04:53 but the problem is when the .sbclrc remains 19:05:30 it does not get even there, i mean i am then at the same MAXIMA: prompt but then invoking (cl-user::run), gets me into debugger ... 19:05:47 and no info available for frame 19:05:48 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:05:49 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:25 codetonowhere [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:06:35 so the real problem is the initscript .sbclrc 19:06:40 homie: Would reader macros help? 19:06:54 jtza8: how ? 19:07:03 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:08:39 well, if, for example, you don't want to load ASDF when it's already loaded, you could use #-asdf before the sexp that does the loading. 19:08:57 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@p5B105832.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: • :: www.unitedservers.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::] 19:09:11 That way, if ASDF is defined, the sexp won't eval. 19:09:55 #-asdf (load "blah"), does that mean when the feature asdf is not present load blah ? 19:10:36 If the symbol, asdf is present, don't eval (load "blah"), yes. 19:10:56 yes, but how would that translate to the case .sblcrc ? 19:11:12 i mean the maxima backend is sbcl 19:11:33 Right. But you can do more with those reader macros too. 19:11:56 isn't it already too late when .sbclrc gets read ? 19:12:11 E.g. #-nil will never execute the following form. 19:12:48 jtza8: unless :nil is in *features* 19:12:55 so i would then put a #-maxima (load "blah"), everywhere in my .sbclrc ? 19:13:22 lichtblau: i just confirmed with an example smaller and simpler than the one i mentioned before: on ccl, xuriella really does seem to be balking at the xsl document processing instruction in a janky way 19:13:23 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:29 hmm, maybe that will work 19:13:34 brb, am trying it now 19:13:35 Where applicable, yes. 19:13:46 lichtblau: (i.e., you were probably right the first time; i just wanted to check that my example wasn't in fact a weird one) 19:13:54 Xach: right 19:15:04 -!- rumina [~rumina@88-148-219-26.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:15:26 ... er... em I mean #+nil 19:17:15 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-68.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:17:40 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:18:00 -!- gtklocker [~gtklocker@adsl-74.109.242.153.tellas.gr] has left #lisp 19:18:43 alama pasted "xsl document function, xuriella, and ccl breakage" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121567 19:19:11 cool the #+maxima thing helped now 19:19:22 alama annotated #121567 "external document refeenced by the xsl document function (foo.idx)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121567#1 19:19:25 -!- rawr0xdeadbeef [~wolfbytes@97.72.154.166] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 19:19:29 i can start the executable and invoke (cl-user::run) without problems now, thanks much 19:19:38 yey :) 19:19:43 :) 19:19:57 nikodemus [~nikodemus@82.181.199.216] has joined #lisp 19:20:17 alama annotated #121567 "xml to be transformed: foo.xml" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121567#2 19:20:21 macrocat [~marmalade@99.192.100.125] has joined #lisp 19:21:21 alama annotated #121567 "xuriella APPLY-STYLESHEET invocation" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121567#3 19:21:44 lichtblau: here's what i was working on: http://paste.lisp.org/display/121567 19:22:19 *jtza8* learned that all the symbols in *FEATURES* are keywords, so using the ":" in #+:asdf is better. 19:22:35 i don't have to invoke (cl-user::run) by hand now i put a #-maxima before it too :) 19:22:56 Cool :) 19:23:34 jtza8: The first half of your sentence made me think the second half was going to include #+(or), but you tricked me! 19:23:59 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 19:25:03 sellout: hehe 19:29:32 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@82.181.199.216] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:29:45 phrixos [~clarkema@unaffiliated/phrixos] has joined #lisp 19:36:07 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 19:36:34 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:37 eheh finally :) 19:38:20 http://tratt.net/laurie/tech_articles/articles/parsing_the_solved_problem_that_isnt ends with: "Predicting the future is a mugs game, but I am starting to wonder whether, if we fail to come up with more suitable parsing algorithms, programming languages of the future that wish to allow syntax extension will bypass parsing altogether, and use syntax directed editing instead. Many people think parsing is a solved problem - I think it 19:38:20 isn't." :-) :-) 19:39:44 snearch [~snearch@f053006206.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:42:36 -!- Liera [~Liera@113.172.38.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:43:43 Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:43:59 -!- chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:45:51 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@e180077201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 19:46:26 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 19:48:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:49:09 -!- Areil [~user@113.172.38.206] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:51:19 chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 19:52:18 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:57:20 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:00:07 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:00:56 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 20:01:01 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:01:49 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:04:22 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:05:33 -!- katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:06:56 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:08:24 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:03 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:10:40 amirhoshangi [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 20:11:20 hi guys. im researching on lisp : can we say that eval notation is lisp syntax anyway ? 20:11:29 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CCAE7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:12:05 amirhoshangi: you should start researching lisp by reading a couple of books. 20:12:16 im doing it 20:12:20 Try: http://cliki.net/ it has a lot of pointers. 20:12:39 amirhoshangi: eval doesn't understand syntax, it understands an AST 20:12:58 what you mean ? 20:13:37 S-expression is a textual serialization form of that AST, which is made of a tree/list of cons cells 20:14:44 so, you have a reader, that understands a textual syntax, and constructs an AST out of CONS cells, essentially "parsing" 20:15:01 such a datastructure is thn passd to VAL 20:15:03 *EVAL 20:15:38 so lisp interpreter parses s-expressions to AST and passes to eval ? 20:15:51 the original LISP papr called for advanced, easy to use syntax called M-exprssions, withS-exprssions being an intermediate form 20:15:55 amirhoshangi: yes 20:16:21 amirhoshangi: yes. That's what we mean, when we say read a book! 20:16:35 actually im reading 20:16:39 amirhoshangi: this is explained in the first chapter of each lisp tutorial! 20:16:51 Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.221.82] has joined #lisp 20:17:27 -!- xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:17:32 amirhoshangi: I recommend you take Gentle Introduction toSymbolic Computation, since it was designed exactly for that kind of questions 20:17:35 Hi all! 20:17:48 im reading that 20:17:48 minion: tell amirhoshangi about gentle 20:17:48 amirhoshangi: please see gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 20:18:08 exactly im on that book :) 20:18:30 -!- chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:19:01 but its obvoius that 20:19:16 -!- dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:51 interpreter must parse inputs and evaluate them why should we tell it to programmers 20:20:37 amirhoshangi: advanced lisp techniques require familiarity with that 20:20:55 also, it was a big change, because it allowed nic,direct, manipulation of symbolic data 20:22:52 xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 20:25:05 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:26:29 alama: does it help to run (deftype cxml-stp-impl::document-type () 'stp:document-type) and (deftype cxml-stp-impl::document () 'stp:document) between loading stp and running your example? 20:26:39 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 20:27:15 chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 20:27:52 Slackta [~Ricky@203.160.114.68] has joined #lisp 20:28:00 I have a lissssssssssssssssssssssssssp mother fuckers 20:28:32 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-163-75.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:29:26 :Slakta : what a great words u use !! 20:29:29 -!- fantazo__ [~fantazo@178-191-168-238.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:29:57 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 20:29:59 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*Ricky@203.160.114.* 20:30:05 -!- Slackta [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (Slackta) 20:31:08 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053006206.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:31:26 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:26 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:20 -!- konr` [~user@187.118.61.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:33:36 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 20:35:26 tnx for help every body. 20:35:29 -!- amirhoshangi [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 20:36:12 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 20:36:14 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:38:37 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:38:55 Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:40:31 can anyone help me? why this function isn't working http://paste.pocoo.org/show/377513/ 20:40:53 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:42:27 Seems like it's working to me. 20:42:36 aperturefever` [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 20:42:41 Oh, wait, you want a list, not to print it. 20:42:42 -!- aperturefever` [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Client Quit] 20:42:45 Bike: look at the return value, not what's printed 20:42:58 bsod1: read what UNLESS does. 20:43:13 you want IF or COND. 20:43:15 Hmmm.... I am writing a jit for my scheme interpreter, but I want to execute my code (which is in a global C variable) I get EXC_BAD_ACCESS on OS X... I think SBCL has a similar problem and there's some workaround... does anyone know? 20:43:19 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 20:43:27 dostoyevsky: mprotest as executable. 20:43:37 *mprotect even (mprotest would be awesome, though) 20:43:40 Kraymes [~Kraymnes@pool-71-167-55-33.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:48 no blood for ram! 20:43:49 pkhuong: Ok, I investigate. :) 20:43:55 -!- chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:43:55 bsod1: also, what happens if n = 0, or worse, negative? 20:44:19 carlocci [~nes@93.37.196.132] has joined #lisp 20:44:25 pkhuong: I don't think problem is about 'unless', princ just works fine 20:44:35 bsod1: fine. 20:44:38 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:45:11 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:46:29 pkhuong: any ideas? 20:47:10 -!- xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:47:35 bsod1: yes. Read the specification for unless. 20:48:39 Good morning everyone! 20:49:10 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 20:49:41 -!- katesmith_ is now known as katesmith 20:50:54 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:16 chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 20:52:30 pkhuong: thanks :) 21:00:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-19-159.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:00:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:01:48 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-186-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-89-39.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:04:28 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:07:18 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-186-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:07:40 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-186-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:49 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 21:09:07 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757ddd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:10 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:09:55 -!- chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:10:18 -!- ignas [~ignas@78.63.105.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:12:53 -!- alama [~alama@ip4dab5c2d.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: alama] 21:14:24 rvirding_ [~chatzilla@79.138.215.81.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 21:14:29 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-1.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:15:24 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-1.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:06 -!- rvirding_ [~chatzilla@79.138.215.81.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:16:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:16:33 brodo_ [~brodo@p5B025C99.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:55 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@109.58.186.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:17:04 -!- brodo_ [~brodo@p5B025C99.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:17:32 rvirding [~chatzilla@79.138.215.81.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 21:17:45 chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 21:18:35 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B022393.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:19:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-1.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:22:53 alama [~alama@ip4dab5c2d.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 21:23:08 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:27:20 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:14 lichtblau: yes, that gets things to work! 21:31:28 thanks 21:31:45 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@82.143.220.223] has joined #lisp 21:32:15 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955FD77.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:32:53 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:33:18 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:05 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-186-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:36:19 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@79.138.215.81.bredband.tre.se] has left #lisp 21:36:28 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-186-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:01 i'll add this as a workaround to my code for now 21:37:31 perhaps it could be implemented into the sources of either cxml or xuriella (not sure where this properly belongs) 21:41:03 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:45:38 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:47:51 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:51:27 Onyxyte [~Onyxyte@r75-110-112-109.rmntcmtc02.rcmtnc.ab.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:04 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:10 If anyone is interested in sorting out MOP disagreements between me, CMUCL, and LispWorks, I wouldn't complain: https://github.com/sellout/quid-pro-quo/issues 21:53:28 Vutral_ [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 21:54:21 I always thought that was closer-mop's job 22:00:07 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:02:53 Xach: Well, I'm using Closer-MOP, so maybe it's just not doing its job ;) 22:03:19 -!- alama [~alama@ip4dab5c2d.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: alama] 22:03:31 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 22:04:58 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:59 Let n = p*q, where p and q are distinct primes. Show that the largest order of any element in Zn is E(n)/d, where d = gcd(p  1, q  1) and E is Euler's totient function 22:09:39 gglitch [~user@216-80-93-163.c3-0.grn-ubr1.chi-grn.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:07 mippymoe: good for you 22:10:23 lol 22:10:34 -!- gglitch [~user@216-80-93-163.c3-0.grn-ubr1.chi-grn.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:37 gglitch [~user@216-80-93-163.c3-0.grn-ubr1.chi-grn.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:38 zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:14:05 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:19:09 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:20:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22:52 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:16 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:38 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-186-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:23:51 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@177.19.98.141] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:35:05 -!- zmv is now known as zw 22:35:16 -!- zw is now known as zmv 22:35:33 rasterba_ [~rasterbar@96.24.71.214] has joined #lisp 22:37:27 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host81-131-242-39.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:37:40 brodo [~brodo@p5B025C99.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:01 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:44 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:59 -!- codetonowhere [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:08 codetonowhere [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:40:03 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:53:44 brodo_ [~brodo@p5B025C99.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:01 -!- rasterba_ [~rasterbar@96.24.71.214] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:16 -!- brodo_ [~brodo@p5B025C99.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:55:18 xan_ [~xan@adsl-76-254-68-171.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:05 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025C99.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:58:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:58:49 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:23 Vivitron [ad4c080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.76.8.10] has joined #lisp 23:01:13 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:02:25 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:26 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 23:04:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:38 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-141-21.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:13:02 lanthan [~ze@p54B7FA06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:04 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7FA06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:16:06 lanthan [~ze@p54B7FA06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:55 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:59 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 23:18:15 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D61E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:22:26 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:25:07 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:25:13 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:26:17 sakekasi [~sakekasi@99-28-149-24.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:31 what is the built in function to check if two vectors are equal? 23:28:27 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:18 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 23:29:54 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 23:30:08 <_3b> eq, equal or equalp depending on what you mean by 'equal' (or string= or string-equal if the vectors happen to be specialized to hold characters) 23:35:17 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 23:37:28 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 23:41:35 -!- gglitch [~user@216-80-93-163.c3-0.grn-ubr1.chi-grn.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:10 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:51 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:12 zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:44:20 TeMPOraL [~user@46.205.106.169.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:44:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-89-39.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:47:34 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-186-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:28 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.244.136.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:53:57 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7F82.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]