00:00:18 Well, if I'm reading that right, the system that mario64 was built in was lisp-based, not that mario64 was lisp-based. 00:02:24 wetnosed_ [~kai@f052102024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:02:52 (defmacro verily (rest) `(not (null ,rest))) 00:03:03 I take it there already exists such a macro/function? 00:03:15 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:35 Just not null? 00:04:11 -!- wetnosed [~kai@f052103021.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:04:27 "rest" is a very confusing name for an argument that isn't actually an &rest list. 00:04:30 Landr: Why a macro? 00:04:54 And, yes, such a macro seems a little silly, as it could be done just as well via an inlined function. 00:04:55 [and good morning everyone] 00:04:59 Hello beach. 00:05:17 inline function? but I just want to avoid having to write (not (null foobar)) 00:05:50 Landr: But why make it a macro? 00:05:54 (defun degeneralize-boolean (value) (not (null value))) ? 00:06:00 because... it's a simple rewrite? 00:06:11 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: b] 00:06:15 nyef: something like that, but easier to type :P 00:06:21 Landr: And in the process you can't #'apply it. 00:06:29 like... (defmacro true (form) `(not (null ,form))) 00:06:42 oh, right 00:06:44 Landr: Never use a macro when a function will do. 00:06:47 Odin- [~sbkhh@193.109.18.92] has joined #lisp 00:07:47 Landr: I think such a function doesn't exist because it is rarely needed. 00:08:07 Landr: When you write recursive code, you test for null first anyway: (if (null ..) .. ..) 00:08:08 beach: I've been looking at CLIM event handling again. It's quite awesomely predicated on the existence of LispM-style multiprocessing. 00:08:43 Landr: and if you use when or unless, you just reverse them, (when (not (null ..) ..) -> (unless (null ..) ..) 00:09:01 hmm, ok then 00:09:19 nyef: Yeah, I actually got that, even though I don't know much about LispM-style multiprocessing. 00:09:35 nyef: I think it is great that you are looking into that. 00:09:38 La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 00:09:47 How did multiprocessing work on lispms? 00:10:03 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:11:00 The basic concept appears to be a "wait function". 00:11:21 A function which takes a predicate and waits until calling the predicate returns true. 00:11:46 Oh, right. The scheduler invokes that to determine whether a process is runnable? 00:11:49 Right. 00:11:54 ah. 00:12:15 And that doesn't work well with multiprocessors. 00:12:27 Doesn't work well if you don't have the bloody scheduler hook, either. 00:12:34 True. 00:13:10 You're using select() or MsgWaitForMultipleObjectsEx()? You're SOL. 00:14:07 But, at least in theory, if you were writing something like an IRC client, you could set your input wait function to something that calls LISTEN on the network pipe. 00:14:36 Also, wait functions compose beautifully. 00:15:08 (Though if they were also configured as CPS functions, they'd be even scarier that way.) 00:15:51 odd 00:15:55 my slime has gone full-red 00:16:00 communist takeover! 00:16:14 Landr: time to change the oil 00:16:30 The other thing is that if you limit your predicates to testing things derived from either time or input events they still work for a modern GUI system. 00:16:31 or restart emacs perhaps 00:19:34 Anyway, I sortof started with an investigation and commentary on the specified CLIM input system, but I've been thinking that it might just be easier to write a new spec instead. 00:19:56 nyef: Are you advocating a limited use of wait functions? 00:20:26 nyef: The problem of writing a new spec is that it can't be done incrementally. It either exists or it doesn't. 00:20:59 Limited use of wait functions, yes. 00:21:57 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 00:21:59 jesusito [~user@203.pool85-54-36.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 00:22:03 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.58.95.85] has joined #lisp 00:22:47 Why can't a new spec for a "clim-like" system be written incrementally? 00:22:49 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 00:23:28 nyef: I guess I'll take that back. I just meant that it will not be totally useful until it is complete. 00:23:41 Okay, that's fair. 00:24:22 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:12 The thing is, the old spec is just spectacularly bad, as a spec. 00:25:51 nyef: You are being a little unfair I think. I have seen alot worse, including no spec at all. 00:26:10 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:26:27 Perhaps, but there's so much either missing or just plain wrong. 00:26:44 I agree with that. 00:27:04 And I'm sortof used to the CL spec as a benchmark. 00:27:42 -!- bizarrefish [~ray@92.3.227.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:27:47 I know. But when I was pointed to things like Qt and GTK as a model for CLIM3, I found much worse than the CLIM II spe. 00:27:49 c 00:28:03 Actually, one of the problems with the CLIM spec is that it's not a spec in that sense at all, more a set of redesign notes for an existing piece of software. 00:28:38 It's a bit strange that way, yes. 00:29:19 bizarrefish [~ray@92.3.227.14] has joined #lisp 00:30:41 Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237:deaf:dead:beef:cafe:babe] has joined #lisp 00:31:07 Once I figured out what wait functions did, the specification for process-next-event was at least semi-intelligible, although it's still incoherent. 00:31:45 The other key thing about process-next-event is that it implies the existence of a -generic- event loop. 00:31:47 Oh, interesting. I never did understand that one, not even slightly. 00:32:59 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 00:33:41 One key is that process-next-event itself is what I'm calling a "wait function", and its wait-function parameter is what I'm calling a "scheduler predicate". 00:33:52 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 00:34:15 Interesting. 00:34:28 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:34:29 So there's now two predicates involved, one passed in, and one passed on to something like process-wait and one used for wait-function composition. 00:34:37 Err... 00:34:42 Lost track there, clearly. 00:35:15 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 00:35:28 You end up with something like (process-wait-with-timeout "Waiting for input" timeout (lambda () (or ... (funcall wait-function)))) in the implementation of process-next-event. 00:35:48 With the ... checking to see if the port has new events to deal with. 00:36:38 You should write this down somewhere. Maybe annotate the CLIM II spec? 00:36:40 -!- c|mell [~cmell@95.77.176.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:02 I've been writing it down in a file, locally, intended to be checked in to my nq-clim tree. 00:37:13 There's too much to annotate the spec with, really. 00:37:34 And I'm still rewriting chunks of it because even the explanations are difficult. 00:37:38 As long as it is written down somewhere. 00:38:54 Umm... And stream-input-wait has to return the next gesture input, or nil if the input-wait-test returns true, or (values nil :timeout) if the timeout expires. 00:39:04 -!- The_Fellow [~storm2@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 00:39:22 -!- basho___ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-229-135.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:39:31 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:14 The_Fellow [~storm2@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:38 -!- seangrov` [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:40:58 I think one of those is mentioned almost indirectly in the description of stream-read-gesture, one follows from the described extension protocol for stream-input-wait (also described in stream-read-gesture), and one is actually a common feature of wait-functions generally. 00:41:18 (And could be argued from the description of the timeout parameter for stream-input-wait, as well.) 00:41:19 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-231-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:49 Umm... And I think there should be a wait-function below stream-input-wait for listening to the event queue, since stream-input-wait clearly has to listen to the stream input buffer. 00:42:53 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.34] has joined #lisp 00:43:25 nyef: At some point, I'll definitely re-read the CLIM II spec of process-next-event with this in mind. 00:45:18 basho__ [~basho__@92.76.88.69] has joined #lisp 00:46:14 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 00:46:25 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A6956.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:49:13 One thing I still haven't quite figured out is how to have a "non-stream" user-interface without the various command prompts and whatnot still showing up. 00:50:09 Not sure what you mean. 00:50:18 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.58.95.85] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:50:19 The command loop is not required. 00:50:30 hsrt [maln@93-138-32-72.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:51:31 Mmm... I suppose, but does that also invalidate things like presentation-to-command-translators? 00:51:47 And the command menu mechanism? 00:52:13 -!- jacks- [~jacks-@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 00:52:26 I suppose so. 00:53:07 It should definitely be possible to use only menues and buttons (and not the input editor) to enter commands. 00:53:26 -!- beelike [~maln@78-0-195-235.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:53:28 I mean, it *ought to* be possible, though perhaps currently it is not. 00:53:55 But, with ESA, we just replaced the command loop, as is allowed by the spec. 00:54:11 So that it doesn't prompt. 00:54:35 Mmm. I did something similar with pretzil. Just had a loop that ended up calling ACCEPT to read text from the user. 00:55:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@134.61.66.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:56:04 Perhaps it would be worthwhile looking into alternative command loops, and perhaps either supply different ones, or at least supply more building blocks so that it would be easier to design your own command loop. 00:59:43 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:00:29 Yeah, I was thinking of maybe having an application writers guide that did more than simply reiterate parts of the spec. 01:01:05 Something that showed how to do things like have an application that's just a form with various gadgets on it and no command prompt. 01:01:14 wetnosed [~kai@f052103055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:01:25 Definitely! 01:01:42 The McCLIM Manual was meant to be just that. 01:01:55 It has some useful examples, but it doesn't go far enough. 01:03:07 -!- wetnosed_ [~kai@f052102024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:05:58 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A118.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:06:36 Okay, one main loop that I think I'd like to see is a simple game main loop. 01:06:52 -!- aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Quit: .] 01:06:59 The sort of thing that is redraw, pause, handle all immediately-available input, repeat. 01:08:04 Actually, I think that could be a good initial implementation driver. 01:08:05 That sounds very good. 01:08:13 Just needs the input handling and some way to draw stuff. 01:09:30 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:09:52 Actually, I think that's another section for the guide. "How to write an application without any of the application-layer junk." 01:09:55 markskilbeck [~markskilb@host86-141-75-61.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 01:09:55 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@host86-141-75-61.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:09:55 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 01:10:13 sellout1 [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@173.164.128.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:11:17 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:37 Heh! 01:11:50 It looks like a disabled sheet grafted to an X server would have an X window as its mirror, and that should be enough to throw the window-management properties into play... 01:11:59 And then enabling it corresponds to a MapWindow request. 01:13:36 All the transformation / region stuff is still bogus, though. 01:13:57 It could be there as a library, but should not be involved in the sheet hirearchy. 01:14:29 The problem is that all of the output functions are defined in terms of the transformation. 01:14:47 And the same with some of the input functions, AIUI. 01:15:04 Right, that has to go. 01:17:13 -!- jesusito [~user@203.pool85-54-36.dynamic.orange.es] has left #lisp 01:17:51 -!- fragione [fragione@bzq-79-177-194-32.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:20:35 Okay, how about an initial project scope to be some subset of clim-silica, and possibly some of the guts for extended input streams, along with a manual for how to make it go? 01:20:46 Well, and a spec, of course. 01:21:15 nyef: Did you look at what I did for the output stuff? 01:21:30 ... I don't think I did. Link? 01:21:39 Hold on... 01:22:55 Maybe in http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/CLIM-3.git 01:23:24 Is there a gitweb for that, or should I just try cloning it? 01:23:33 Just clone it. 01:23:50 You set it up properly for clone-via-http? 01:23:54 beach: did you ever try out my spectacle app? 01:24:23 -!- jeti` [~user@p548EA295.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:25:35 longfin [~longfin@211.246.69.202] has joined #lisp 01:26:29 Ugh. I keep having to look up the pdf viewer program on this thing. :-/ 01:26:53 slyrus: Too busy. Sorry. I hope things will calm down starting Tuesday. 01:27:08 nyef: Should work, yes. 01:27:21 ok. it's an example of the kind of thing I'd like to be able to do in any clim-replacement 01:27:47 slyrus: I see, yes. 01:29:06 fragione [~fragione@bzq-79-180-240-241.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:21 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw592034.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:30:04 slyrus: If a large chunk like what you did could be factored out of a future CLIM3 spec, that would be fantastic. 01:31:28 Quadrescence [~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 01:31:52 I'm pretty sure that's the case 01:32:20 yeah. 01:33:08 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:33:08 in particular, the thing that spectacle demonstrates that I want is the scrolling/zooming stuff 01:33:12 ... I can see that I'm going to have to re-read this a few times. 01:33:18 it's decent now, but it could certainly be better 01:33:40 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 01:33:45 where better is 1) faster, 2) more flicker-free and 3) has a nice easy-to-program-to API 01:34:05 longfin_ [~longfin@211.246.68.48] has joined #lisp 01:34:08 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@211.246.68.48] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:30 longfin_ [~longfin@211.246.68.48] has joined #lisp 01:34:52 beach: To what extent do your CLIM 3 designs correspond to CLIM 2 designs? 01:35:05 I was impressed that things didn't blow up when I loaded a 100 Mb TIFF image and could still scroll/zoom around quickly 01:35:17 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw592034.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:35:39 nyef: Not at all. 01:35:54 They're more like output-records? 01:36:15 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.127.96] has joined #lisp 01:36:30 nyef: They are like a combination of designs, sheets, and output records. 01:36:37 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.69.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:36:47 nyef: But wait, that spec might be old. Hold on. 01:37:13 Nov 10, 2008? 01:37:34 Old. Hold on... 01:38:44 benny` [~benny@i577A859E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:39:50 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw592034.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:39:58 nyef: try git clone http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/CLIMatis 01:40:01 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7353.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:40:04 -!- benny` is now known as benny 01:41:06 No, wait, still old. Hold on... 01:43:01 Hang on, what? Eliminating mirrored sheets as an explicit abstraction?!? 01:43:23 That's the -escape hatch-, you don't close that! 01:44:41 (Besides, not all sheets have to be directly mirrored anyway, they could in fact all roll up to the graft as the mirror.) 01:46:28 OK, now try git clone http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/CLIMatis.git 01:46:55 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:47:16 nyef: Don't pay attention to details like that at this point. 01:47:26 That's the same repository as last time? 01:47:49 Shouldn't be. 01:48:01 It has a different name and I updated it. 01:48:24 Ah, so it isn't. 01:49:04 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.114] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:51:27 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.36.10] has joined #lisp 01:52:24 Looks like you've basically eliminated explicit repaint in favor of repainting from zone records? 01:52:59 -!- phrixos [~clarkema@adsl-83-100-226-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:53:20 mutenewt [~mutenewt@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:30 Yes. 01:56:48 -!- basho__ [~basho__@92.76.88.69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:29 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:57:41 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:58:49 beach: that's exactly the kind of thing I want to make sure works well for something like spectacle 01:59:33 and at some point I want to figure how things like opengl mix into your new approach 02:00:11 -!- bizarrefish [~ray@92.3.227.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:00:12 seangrov` [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:32 icbh [~icbh@ntszok076238.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:00:45 slyrus: That would be very valuable. 02:01:14 suppose I have a list of items, and I want to format them out... how do I go from (format t "~S ~S ~S ~S" '(fi fie fo fum)) to correct output? (in short: how do i flatten list right?) i was thinking of using values somehow 02:01:21 I'll need opengl for my (hypothetical) protein structure viewer 02:02:18 slyrus: I can see that. 02:02:36 -!- mutenewt [~mutenewt@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 02:02:57 -!- seangrove [~user@98.234.242.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:25 mutenewt [~mutenewt@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:26 Landr: Try using "~{~S ~S ~S ~S~}" as your control string? 02:03:41 Landr: I didn't understand what you want 02:04:18 Landr: As an additional challenge, use only one ~S and make the spacing come out right, thus allowing you to use any number of elements in your parameter instead of always four. 02:04:58 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:05:22 hmm 02:06:07 drdo: format expects it to be like this: (format t "~S ~S" foo bar) but I have (format t "~S ~S" (foo bar)) 02:06:12 beach: I'm finding myself unconvinced about the whole "zone" concept, but that may be because I don't really see the problem with the separation of sheets and drawing operations. 02:06:37 hmm... lots of lisp(y) interpreters in javascript. is there a javascript interpreter/compiler for CL? 02:06:45 landr: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/22_cgd.htm 02:06:49 Landr: With or without the quote on the (foo bar) ? 02:07:02 erm, with? 02:07:04 Landr: You could also just use APPLY, you know? 02:07:07 slyrus: parenscript? 02:07:08 it's a list, not a funcall 02:07:33 slyrus: The original javascript interpreter was for CL, wasn't it? 02:07:51 could be... is there a modern-ish one for CL? 02:07:53 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:59 That I couldn't tell you. 02:08:02 -!- stw [~Steve@pool-98-109-5-156.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 02:08:03 Bike: I don't think parenscript runs arbitry JS code 02:08:10 arbitrary even 02:08:20 oh, misunderstood what you were saying. 02:08:24 parenscript compiles from a dialect of CL to js 02:08:29 arbitree sounds like a good name for an index data structure 02:08:39 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:08:56 an index with arbitrary ordering? I suppose that's not so useful 02:09:50 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:07 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 02:11:06 -!- mutenewt [~mutenewt@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 02:12:26 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-186-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:12:27 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:15:44 compmstr [~corey@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:37 -!- compmstr [~corey@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:17:49 compmstr [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:14 Hunh. I begin to suspect that the whole sheet-transformation / sheet-region thing might not be as horrible as once I thought. 02:23:45 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:39 Except that it only really works if the transformation has some severe restrictions (rectalinear with only 1s or -1s or something like that). 02:24:57 ... of course, the mixin stuff is downright stupid... 02:25:37 Yeah, it has to be limited to rectilinear transformations with integer scaling, or a defined approximation function for non-integer final sizes. 02:26:02 After all, scaling an even number of pixels by 1.5 gives an integer result. 02:26:36 replore [~replore@ntkngw592034.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:29:11 Now, the region stuff on the other hand, allows for shaped windows if done right. 02:29:20 Hello lispers! 02:29:36 ... Actually, make the approximation function the same as for drawing. 02:30:57 slyrus: user Gonzojive has js-parser and js-to-parensript repos on github, maybe theres something useful. 02:30:58 nyef: Notice that, contrary to what you have said sometime in the past, the zone concept does not rule out shaped windows. A zone is merely a bounding box. 02:31:36 Hmm. 02:32:50 There is also a for from https://github.com/marijnh/js 02:33:39 Which points to https://github.com/akapav/js 02:34:04 ...fork from... 02:34:08 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw592034.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:36 symbole [~user@ool-182ff693.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:49 SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:34:59 -!- SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:36:13 stephenry [~user@76-218-106-17.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:17 thanks peterhil 02:43:08 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:51:34 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:30 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@24.59.205.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:54:32 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-168289.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:58:03 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:58:24 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 02:59:35 -!- Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237:deaf:dead:beef:cafe:babe] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:01:02 Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237::1] has joined #lisp 03:01:24 makks [~max@p5DE8EB4C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:51 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:03:02 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@211.246.68.48] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:14 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:03:59 -!- Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237::1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:41 -!- makks_ [~max@p5DE8E568.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:05:06 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 03:11:11 -!- compmstr [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:12:36 ... okay, I don't like the general CLIM II regions, but I do like having regions. 03:13:12 Oh. Just hit section 3.2. Now I remember why I detest CLIM II geometry and designs. :-/ 03:13:15 What kind of regions do you like having? 03:13:52 -!- rumina [~rumina@88-148-219-26.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:14:08 Well, I need damage regions for updates, and those are sets of bounding boxes. 03:14:29 That's what zones are for. 03:14:30 And the same again for shaped windows, really, as they're typically shaped at the pixel level. 03:15:19 The general nature of CLIM II regions is already questionable because you cannot determine in general whether the intersection of two regions is empty or not. 03:17:11 We're looking at this from two different directions, aren't we? 03:18:04 You're starting from a basis of experience with CLIM and McCLIM that I don't really have, while I'm trying to figure out which end is up in the CLIM spec and how to implement it or a similar system. 03:18:51 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:18:54 Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237:0:dead:beef:cafe:babe] has joined #lisp 03:20:30 Could be, yeah. 03:22:31 jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.36.10] has joined #lisp 03:22:49 src/code/early-time.lisp sets INTERNAL-TIME-UINITS-PER-SECOND is this value always 1000? 03:23:31 on sbcl? 03:23:45 mon_key: I believe that it's based on some timer API with millisecond resolution, so yes. 03:24:53 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 03:25:48 nyef: thanks 03:26:10 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.36.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:28:36 paul0 [~user@187.112.68.205] has joined #lisp 03:31:05 Okay, I think I'm going to sleep on this for a bit. 03:33:02 But I definitely like the idea of figuring out how to work with just silica and CLX to produce applications, and then layering the rest of the application stuff on top. 03:33:13 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-131-96.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 03:42:25 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@203-217-68-161.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:42:55 any LW users in here 03:43:32 ltriant [~ltriant@203-217-69-111.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:45:49 -!- wetnosed [~kai@f052103055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:52:08 -!- jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.36.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:52:58 jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.36.10] has joined #lisp 03:54:10 -!- peddie [~peddie@18.181.2.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:55:38 -!- stephenry [~user@76-218-106-17.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:56:10 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 04:03:44 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:05:45 why don't you ask in LW..? 04:07:18 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:08:17 -!- jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.36.10] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:08:33 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.36.10] has joined #lisp 04:08:47 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 04:10:18 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 04:11:08 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-231-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:11 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:47 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-231-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:33 -!- cheezus1 [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:27:03 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 04:28:27 Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.218.166] has joined #lisp 04:28:54 Hi all! 04:30:22 -!- nu11ptr [~nu11ptr@adsl-76-235-211-176.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:30:54 hello Bahman. 04:31:07 -!- paul0 [~user@187.112.68.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:27 paul0 [~user@187.112.68.205] has joined #lisp 04:31:54 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA4C965.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:32:48 Bahman: How is learning Lisp, Emacs, SLIME, etc going? 04:34:25 beach: Thanks to you folks, everything set and in place. Now just awaiting the free time :-) 04:35:20 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.14.140] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:35:40 xinming [~hyy@115.221.6.226] has joined #lisp 04:37:13 nu11ptr [~nu11ptr@adsl-76-235-211-176.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:27 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:45 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:42:17 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 04:44:35 Triplefault [~caleb@adsl-145-224-209.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:33 Bahman: set? what is your plan, if I may ask? 04:47:51 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:47:52 realitygrill: Sure. To learn CLips or Scheme -still not decided- as soon as I have some free time. 04:48:37 CLips? 04:48:47 Bahman: oh, okay, sounded like you had a grand plan. 04:49:07 beach: CLisp I meant. 04:49:42 Bahman: CLisp is an implementation of the Common Lisp standard. You typically want to learn Common Lisp, and not the specifics of a particular implementation. 04:49:52 Bahman: Common Lisp is abbreviated as "CL", GNU clisp is an implementation. 04:49:52 Bahman: I'm a newb myself 04:50:10 Correcting myself: CLips = CL 04:51:58 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 04:52:00 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 05:00:44 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@2TV5LK1.price.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Offline] 05:01:17 paul0` [~user@187.112.68.205] has joined #lisp 05:03:53 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:04:32 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:05:12 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:05:21 -!- paul0 [~user@187.112.68.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:05:29 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:08:33 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:13:12 -!- italic [~italic@cpe-67-242-144-94.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:14:25 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:15:03 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:16:35 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-58-83.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:29 -!- Quadrescence [~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: qqqqssss] 05:19:21 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.248.64] has joined #lisp 05:19:38 sacho [~sacho@95-42-105-75.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 05:21:44 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:23:50 iaindalton [~user@host-72-174-169-102.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:04 I downloaded paren-psos, put it in ~/.local/share/common-lisp/source/, and did (require :org.iodb.paren-psos-system). It said it couldn't find it. Am I missing a step? 05:26:18 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:27:28 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 05:28:22 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 05:28:23 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-54-186.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:05 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has left #lisp 05:29:40 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 05:30:29 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-141-29.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:32:23 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:33:46 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:33:56 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 05:38:15 -!- paul0` [~user@187.112.68.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:38:58 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-83-34.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:40:38 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:41:48 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 05:48:48 <|3b|> iaindalton: i'd have guessed you would REQUIRE it by the name paren-psos rather than org.iodb.paren-psos-system 05:49:11 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:49:12 <|3b|> iaindalton: might also need another step to tell asdf where the .asd file is, depending on how asdf is configured 05:50:09 <|3b|> (and depending on the lisp, you may need to use ASDF commands (maybe asdf:load-system) rather than REQUIRE) 05:52:58 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:53:16 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-209-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:56:43 *|3b|* wonders if my tendency to do lots of FFI has corrupted the way i want to work with parenscript in a good way or a bad way :/ 05:56:56 tij [~tim@c-24-6-159-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:05 -!- tij [~tim@c-24-6-159-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:58:10 *|3b|* would rather have an explicit translation layer between 'lispy' code and external JS code than do complicated (@ foo bar baz) everywhere 06:00:14 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 06:00:31 That's why I want to try psos, because it reduces the need for @. It's pretty awkward. 06:00:34 tij [~tim@c-24-6-159-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:36 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-54-186.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 06:00:48 *|3b|* can't quite decide if something like a macro on foo-bar:baz (possibly with a shorter (local) package nickname) to expand to (funcall (@ foo bar baz) ...) is really an improvement though, especially if it requires possibly substituting some other value for FOO in the expansion 06:00:59 Also, ASDF looks in ~/.local/share/common-lisp/source/ by default, and SBCL wires it into require 06:01:13 what does @ do? 06:01:16 Write accessor functions. 06:01:28 @ does . chaining. 06:01:48 <|3b|> Zhivago: accessors that end up in the JS? 06:02:20 If you want to use them as functions, yes. 06:02:26 Otherwise, what does it matter? 06:02:43 tim__ [~tim@c-24-6-159-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:12 <|3b|> well, idea is to use packages for namespaces, but have them translate to JS style 'objects as namespaces' 06:03:26 -!- tim__ [~tim@c-24-6-159-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:03:40 Although, frankly these days, I am happier to require people to construct functions as necessary using lambda. 06:03:52 Whether I do require or asdf:load-system, and whether I use the full package name or the last part, it doesn't work. require gives a different error than load-system, though. 06:03:53 That is a bad idea. 06:03:59 jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.36.10] has joined #lisp 06:04:21 It is a bad idea because a.b is not an object in js, but a:b is in CL. 06:04:31 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 06:04:40 JS, like python, has no namespaces -- it has modules. 06:04:48 It has modules? 06:04:56 CL has no modules -- it has only namespaces. 06:05:03 I thought JS didn't have anything 06:05:21 iaindalton: Might want to get your doctor to check you for mental retardation. 06:05:24 <|3b|> iaindalton: js has lots of conventions for things though 06:05:39 I mean, neither modules nor namespaces 06:05:39 <|3b|> iaindalton: and one of the things i'm trying to make more convenient is using existing JS code 06:06:04 iain: Well, it depends on what you consider a module to do. 06:06:43 -!- tij [~tim@c-24-6-159-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:06:54 In the python sense, a module is an object that maps a key to a value. 06:06:55 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.36.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:06:57 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:07:01 |3b|: you? Sorry, I'm not in here much. What project is yours? 06:07:24 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 06:07:40 <|3b|> iaindalton: not in a specific project (yet), just trying to decide how i want to use parenscript 06:07:51 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 06:08:46 *|3b|* 's stuff is on github as 3b though 06:09:05 Zhivago: OK, a module is a dict in Python, but it also has the property that you can import it, or import objects from it. BTW, I believe they do use the term namespaces in Python. It may have a different meaning than in CL. 06:09:27 iain: Yes. They confuse namespaces and modules in python. 06:10:11 A namespace maps a lexical representation to a key; a module maps a key to a value. 06:10:46 So in CL, packages give you namespaces, and you have a few predefined modules for function, value, class, etc. 06:11:16 In python and js there is one namespace, which is why importing a module named foo prevents you from having a function named foo. 06:12:13 Oh, OK. I see what you're saying 06:12:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:12:34 guyute [~tim@c-24-6-159-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:12 But the part about CL not having modules--what about packages? 06:13:26 Packages aren't modules. 06:14:05 What packages do is to build symbols from strings. 06:14:46 And that lets you have two symbols called B, for example. 06:15:27 Getting the value of B has nothing to do with packages. 06:16:04 -!- guyute [~tim@c-24-6-159-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:16:05 "B" -> a:b vs. a:b -> 10 06:17:07 In JS, you'd need something like "B" -> "A_B" and then value["A_B"]. 06:17:51 ah, ok 06:18:00 singalong [75c0ce35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.192.206.53] has joined #lisp 06:18:15 or procedure["A_B", etc. 06:19:31 Conversely, where you have "a.b" in JS, you need to turn that into an operation in CL like (value a 'b) 06:19:45 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:53 -!- Bike [~arm_of_th@71-38-158-155.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 06:20:00 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.127.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:20:01 Bike [~arm_of_th@71-38-158-155.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:18 <|3b|> Zhivago: were you objecting to the specific implementation of using a macro, or the whole idea of having a translation layer for accessing existing JS code? 06:20:21 are there any koans for lisp (even just r5s5 scheme would do)? I'm referring to something like the ruby-koans which help get a feel of the language. 06:20:50 <|3b|> (where by 'translation layer' i mean entirely on the host side, no JS code) 06:21:08 3b: I have no objection -- I just wanted to point out clearly the conceptual mismatch. 06:21:33 <|3b|> Zhivago: ok, like i said to start out, i'm not really comfortable with the idea myself yet :) 06:21:34 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has joined #lisp 06:21:37 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:21:40 3b: I think that building accessors that do the translation in the lisp side is fine. 06:21:51 3b: If necessary, you can wrap them in lambda to build functions. 06:21:54 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 06:22:33 <|3b|> well, one of my primary targets at the moment is performance sensitive (WebGL), so I don't want extra code showing up in the JS 06:22:42 <|3b|> (if that is what you meant) 06:23:17 |3b|: I'm curious as to what you are discussing about... webgl... canvas, etc? 06:23:25 <|3b|> singalong: i don't know of any, but it sounds like an interesting concept 06:23:47 <|3b|> singalong: 'Parenscript' is a translator from an approximation of common lisp to javascript 06:23:58 oh ya heard of it. 06:24:11 <|3b|> singalong: I'm trying to figure out a nice way to write html5 canvas/webgl code using it 06:24:14 More like just a lisp. It doesn't have much of what makes CL CL 06:24:34 |3b|: if you are looking for a language that compiles to JS, then checkout coffeescript. 06:24:51 <|3b|> iaindalton: it is trying to be CL though, as opposed to something like coffeescript which just wants to be a nicer syntax 06:25:17 |3b|: and if you are looking do something with webgl checkout three.js, a very useful webgl library. 06:25:19 <|3b|> singalong: i'm looking for a /lisp/ that compiles to javascript, so using an even more annoying syntax would be going the wrong way :p 06:25:40 |3b|: in what way? 06:25:52 *|3b|* is pretty sure slime wouldn't work very well with coffeescript for example 06:25:54 fvw [~user@183.62.131.177] has joined #lisp 06:26:00 |3b|: oh :) and three.js is here... https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js 06:26:09 singalong: Well, the Ruby Koans page mentions something called The Little Lisper as inspiration. 06:26:33 http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/BTLS/ 06:26:41 <|3b|> iaindalton: trying to be CL you mean? by implementing lexical scope, lisp-2, adding CL operators, removing non-cl style stuff like infix . etc 06:26:45 Bike: Guessing that's the book they are referring to 06:26:48 <|3b|> singalong: yeah, i can use google :) 06:27:14 |3b|: sorry, just thought I could help by posting a direct link. 06:27:17 |3b|: It doesn't remove ., it just provides a prefix notation for it, that makes the resulting code look very un-CL-like 06:27:54 <|3b|> iaindalton: you used to be able to just use foo.bar as an identifier, now you can't 06:28:55 Alright, but ((@ *foo bar) baz) isn't very CL-ish 06:29:18 <|3b|> right, and i understand preferred style is (funcall (@ foo bar) baz) now, which could be CL 06:29:37 *|3b|* doesn't know if actually removing ((@ ...) ...) is planned or not 06:29:51 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:29:57 guyute [~guyute@c-24-6-159-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:58 Yeah. The reason I want to get PSOS working on my system is then I'd have a much more CL-like syntax: (bar baz) 06:30:15 <|3b|> does that work on existing JS code? 06:30:38 Not if bar is a property of foo 06:30:54 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 06:31:04 <|3b|> right, that's what i'm trying to figure out how to clean up 06:31:52 *|3b|* wants to be able to do (gl:clear) instead of ((@ gl clear)) for example 06:31:53 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 06:32:05 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.110.83] has joined #lisp 06:32:17 <|3b|> but not sure if it is reasonable to make the (js) GL. prefix implicit 06:32:38 <|3b|> (gl:clear gl) would get annoying quickly for example 06:33:33 <|3b|> (with-gl-context (GL) (gl:clear) ...) would be somewhere in the middle 06:34:08 <|3b|> that with defaulting to GL if no other context is specified is what i was thinking currently 06:34:24 SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:34:42 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.93.161] has joined #lisp 06:35:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-209-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:35:23 <|3b|> or it could just always default to GL (or some library specific variant since it probably gets created by the library code anyway), and make it a compile-time option 06:35:27 |3b|: I don't think PS is a lisp-2. I tried this at the repl: (parenscript:ps (defun foo () t) (defun bar (foo) (foo foo))) 06:35:40 And the JS was just calling foo(foo) 06:36:04 <|3b|> hmm, possibly i'm confused 06:39:01 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:39:31 <|3b|> comments in http://xach.livejournal.com/274830.html?thread=648334 is probably what i was thinking about, which just says it /could/ not that it does 06:39:45 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 06:40:47 <|3b|> (but also says that trying to work like CL is a goal) 06:43:05 -!- singalong [75c0ce35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.192.206.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:43:23 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-54-186.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:05 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:47:28 -!- guyute [~guyute@c-24-6-159-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:47:55 -!- fvw [~user@183.62.131.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:48:15 fvw [~user@183.62.131.177] has joined #lisp 06:48:50 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:49:45 -!- icbh [~icbh@ntszok076238.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:50:09 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:54:19 Arg this is frustrating. According to the ASDF manual, I'm doing everything right, but I can't load paren-psos 06:56:11 <|3b|> iaindalton: try pasting what you did and the error messages somewhere? 06:56:56 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-58-83.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:57:27 mm, lisppaste is down 06:57:35 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:58:01 http://pastebin.ca/2049618 06:58:05 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 06:58:40 <|3b|> yeah, it ate common-lisp.net last time they tried to start it, so presumably waiting 'til the server move finishes :) 06:59:07 I should note that /usr/share/common-lisp/source/cl-asdf/asdf.lisp doesn't exist. Nor did I find anything suggesting it should. cl-asdf is installed by debian 06:59:36 so that file is at /usr/share/common-lisp/source/cl-asdf/asdf.lisp 06:59:43 oh wait, haha 07:00:04 I misread the error; I thought it was saying couldn't find ~/.local/share/common-lisp/source/cl-asdf/asdf.lisp 07:00:13 <|3b|> (asdf:asdf-version) ? 07:00:15 so yeah, that file exists, disregard 07:00:45 (asdf:asdf-version)  "2.014.6" 07:00:51 <|3b|> also, what was the error trying to load it as just paren-psos? 07:01:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl4E5C4928.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 07:01:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl4E5C4928.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Changing host] 07:01:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:02:05 <|3b|> (and #lisp usually suggests avoiding distro provided lisp stuff, since they tend to configure it differently from default, which makes it harder for us to debug) 07:02:08 You mean paren-psos-system, or just paren-psos? 07:02:15 <|3b|> just paren-psos 07:02:36 <|3b|> (probably as 'paren-psos, :paren-psos, whatever) 07:02:43 -!- fvw [~user@183.62.131.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:02:50 Does that extend to the CL implementation? 07:03:08 <|3b|> yeah 07:03:35 <|3b|> since those tend to pull in other things 07:03:51 http://pastebin.ca/2049621 07:03:58 <|3b|> (or be really old in the case of stable debian stuff :) 07:04:16 *|3b|* is assuming you aren't running stable from the asdf version though 07:04:19 Well, it's Ubuntu. I just said debian because it's apt 07:04:30 <|3b|> ah, different problems then :p 07:04:55 <|3b|> better to be specific on the off chance we do know some distro specific details 07:04:58 I think they use mostly debian unstable, but I forget 07:05:05 Oops, you're right. Sorry. 07:05:23 <|3b|> yeah, but unstable from some random specific time that probably isn't "right now' :) 07:05:36 And next time I have a problem, I'll try vcs sbcl before I ask for help 07:06:18 <|3b|> ok, that says it couldn't find "paren-files" which is a dependency of paren-psos 07:06:38 <|3b|> might try installing with quicklisp if it has paren-psos 07:06:48 *|3b|* doesn't remember if that made it back in yet or not 07:06:55 It doesn't or I would've 07:07:13 Hmm, no paren-files in the git repo 07:07:19 *iaindalton* scratches his head 07:07:27 <|3b|> looks like ql knows about that one 07:07:30 <|3b|> (or should) 07:07:44 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 07:07:50 <|3b|> assuming april ql is out 07:07:59 *|3b|* thought i saw that announced somewhere, maybe not 07:08:19 (ql:system-apropos "psos")  NIL 07:08:31 <|3b|> right, just the paren-files part 07:08:55 <|3b|> so maybe try using ql to load the paren-psos you installed 07:09:10 <|3b|> (ql:quickload 'paren-psos) or however it works 07:09:17 Ah, yes. I didn't think it might be a separate package. I thought it was a missing file :P 07:09:58 I don't think ql can load things not from its repo. That didn't work. But I cann install paren-files 07:10:06 <|3b|> since quicklisp loads through asdf, it can load anything asdf can find, i think it can fix dependencies it knows about, even if it doesn't know about the main system 07:10:22 <|3b|> ok, maybe not then :( 07:10:50 Would be cool though 07:10:57 *|3b|* should probably use ql more, but it seems like i break every lib i try to use, so might as well just go straight to version control :p 07:11:09 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:31 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-58-83.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:44 Patagous [4e867828@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.134.120.40] has joined #lisp 07:13:35 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:14:19 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:15:02 It's great for newbies like me 07:15:18 I obviously struggle with package systems still 07:15:43 Now it can't find "rjson", and ql doesn't have that. I suppose I'd need to manually install it? 07:15:50 <|3b|> doesn't help that we call them 'systems' and use 'package' to name something else :) 07:15:58 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:16:00 <|3b|> probably 07:16:13 <|3b|> i think you can get that from same place as paren-psos 07:16:24 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 07:16:42 <|3b|> (or at least the place i would have gotten it has both) 07:16:47 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:17:23 Wait, so when should I say "system" and when "package"? 07:17:46 The place I got it is github, and he has rjson too :P 07:18:47 <|3b|> 'system' is a group of files on the filesystems, that implements a particular set of features, possibly including dependencies and other metadata (i.e the stuff in a .asd file, ASDF stands for 'another system definition facility') 07:19:24 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 07:19:25 <|3b|> 'package' is the specific object in the lisp image created by DEFPACKAGE (or make-package) which is a mapping from strings to symbols 07:19:44 Alright 07:20:10 <|3b|> (there is also 'module', which is technically what REQUIRE operates on, but REQUIRE wasn't specified usefully, so we don't usually worry about modules) 07:20:28 <|3b|> and instead just use REQUIRE as a shortcut to ASDF for interactive use 07:22:36 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.144.104] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:22:42 -!- symbole [~user@ool-182ff693.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:30:31 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:31:09 stis__ [~stis@host-95-197-198-108.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:32:24 Pesos are obsolete. Try paren-euro. 07:33:09 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-130-156.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:34:07 *|3b|* thinks they are still used, not everyone lives in europe :p 07:34:42 OK, latest error is failure to compile a file. Can I accept and move on? http://pastebin.ca/2049628 07:35:34 *|3b|* wonders if this is one of those things where you need a special fork of parenscript :/ 07:36:37 He does have a copy on github; I should use that, eh? 07:37:49 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 07:38:45 <|3b|> yeah, looks like that might be required :/ 07:39:36 topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has joined #lisp 07:39:53 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:40:48 tritchey [~tritchey@74-93-1-121-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:24 -!- Bike [~arm_of_th@71-38-158-155.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:44:34 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:47:22 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 07:48:50 Yeah, I'm going to continue this tomorrow. 07:48:53 Thanks for the help. 07:49:01 I *am* closer 07:49:05 -!- iaindalton [~user@host-72-174-169-102.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has left #lisp 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setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.252] has joined #lisp 09:49:40 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 09:52:17 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 09:53:19 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.131.194] has quit [] 09:53:19 aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 09:53:35 codetonowhere [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:54:47 -!- aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Client Quit] 09:54:55 aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 09:55:28 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:57:23 Joreji [~thomas@134.61.66.232] has joined #lisp 09:58:01 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 09:58:24 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@188-23-232-149.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:58:46 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:03:03 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:03:25 <|3b|> tracking source locations is hard :( 10:04:17 *|3b|* wonders how often people use ps-compile-stream on non-seekable streams 10:06:11 vonder [~vonder@ppp118-210-92-140.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:24 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@188-23-232-149.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 10:06:56 TeMPOraL` [~user@46.205.102.199.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:09:31 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@178.182.85.5.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:10:55 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-168289.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 10:13:14 -!- TeMPOraL` is now known as TeMPOraL 10:13:51 hmm 10:14:14 -!- topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:14:19 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:14:25 how do I make lisp quote lists? obviously (quote lst) gives me (lst) instead of the quoted value of list 10:14:33 <|3b|> given a character stream and 2 file positions, is there any reliable way to read exactly the characters between those positions aside from looping on read-char and file-position? 10:14:42 -!- vonder [~vonder@ppp118-210-92-140.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has left #lisp 10:15:01 <|3b|> Landr: quote returns the literal value that was in the source 10:15:15 <|3b|> so put the list in the source, or figure out what you are really trying to do and do that 10:15:24 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 10:15:32 trying to reinvent format it seems :\ 10:15:37 |3b|: Anything you might be able to do will be works-by-convention. file positions are pretty loosely specified. 10:15:51 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.nbiserv.com] has joined #lisp 10:15:53 <|3b|> if you want to make a list containing the symbol QUOTE, (cons 'quote list) might work 10:16:03 |3b|: the only thing they actually have to do is increase on subsequent reads. 10:16:54 <|3b|> Xach: are they allowed to increase different amounts when reading the same amount from the same position? 10:17:06 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:17:20 ... of course! 10:17:26 *Landr* gives |3b| a cookie 10:17:27 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-248-115.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:17:29 -!- Vutral_ [59MGmJtAXv@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:17:40 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-248-115.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:17:56 <|3b|> i.e. is (file-position s :start) (read-char s) (file-position s) supposed to always return the same thing no matter how many times you repeat it (assuming seeking is supported) 10:17:56 i should have known... if it thinks that the list is a function call, then the obvious way to have it treat it as a list is to make it a function call that returns the proper list! 10:18:40 -!- stis__ [~stis@host-95-197-198-108.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:49 *|3b|* can understand not specifying how much a particular character advances file-position when read, but making it completely random as long as it is positive seems a bit excessive 10:19:12 <|3b|> (random per read, not just per character i mean) 10:19:18 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:20:09 Wouldn't that be implementation-defined, or something of the sort? 10:20:12 *|3b|* has so far not found anything actually disallowing that interpretation though 10:20:35 <|3b|> Odin-: how much it advances per character? yes, which leads to the original question 10:21:18 <|3b|> given 2 file positions, all i know is that if reads happen between them, the latter is larger by at least the number of characters read 10:21:41 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:21:45 <|3b|> (on a character stream, it is defined for binary streams) 10:22:01 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-113.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:22:24 <|3b|> so since the difference might be arbitrarily more than the # of characters read, i can't just read-sequence 10:23:14 <|3b|> if file positions are at least repeatable, i can loop and read-char then check file-position until it is = to the second file-position 10:23:39 <|3b|> if they aren't repeatable (or vary depending on the read operations), i'm not sure what to do 10:24:04 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 10:27:14 topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has joined #lisp 10:28:02 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:17 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has joined #lisp 10:28:44 *|3b|* wonders if i should just wrap a caching stream of some sort around the read function and store the characters then 10:29:48 *|3b|* supposes that would be a more correct solution anyway 10:31:06 <|3b|> too bad broadcast-streams are only for output 10:33:00 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 10:35:28 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 10:35:33 peddie 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[Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 11:01:24 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:49 -!- topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has left #lisp 11:03:31 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:03:55 *nikodemus* put up docs for esrap: http://nikodemus.github.com/esrap/ 11:04:13 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:04:30 yay 11:04:49 *Xach* has longed for documentation of what exactly an esra predicate is testing for 11:05:41 <|3b|> nikodemus: that stuff for changing expressions looks like it should work, probably won't get to trying it for a few more days though 11:05:57 icbh [~icbh@ntszok076238.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:07:15 nikodemus: that documentation seems to start off as though the reader already knows all about what the project is and how it works. 11:07:40 markskilbeck [~markskilb@host86-141-75-61.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:07:40 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@host86-141-75-61.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:07:40 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 11:08:09 that is, i'd expect "in addition to..." bits and "future changes" bits to come last 11:10:07 <|3b|> nikodemus: s/choise/choice/? 11:13:01 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:13:06 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:13:48 what's an esra predicate? 11:13:48 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 11:15:45 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@82.143.220.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:16:19 A joke. 11:16:39 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-174.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:17:13 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 11:17:35 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 11:17:56 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 11:18:53 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-58-83.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:18:58 codetonowhere1 [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:19:13 -!- codetonowhere [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:45 <|3b|> nikodemus: 'reasoanble' in future changes bullet 2, 'using expression as associated the' under defrule, 'is defined an already' under remove-rule 11:30:29 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:31:32 Patagous_ [4e867828@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.134.120.40] has joined #lisp 11:32:01 -!- Patagous [4e867828@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.134.120.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:32:48 Hmm. Parenscript's multiple-value stuff doesn't seem to be valid ecmascript. 11:35:02 Strict mode seems to eliminate all of that caller/callee stuff. 11:36:44 updated 11:39:52 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CBC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:08 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-174.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:40:11 <|3b|> nikodemus: might emphasize that ordered choice checks in order and returns the first success, for people not familiar with PEG 11:40:58 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:41:42 -!- Landr [~user@78-21-55-104.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:17 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:45:42 thanks, done 11:46:51 |3b|: apropos, the next time i spend time with esrap i'd like to see about making the cache faster. if you have a grammar and stuff to parse that would make a good benchmark, that would be neat 11:47:29 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 11:49:00 (though in all honesty grammar objects would be more of a priority, but optimizing the cache appeals to me more right now...) 11:49:10 <|3b|> heh 11:49:22 *|3b|* looks for the file i was stress testing 3bmd with 11:52:31 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 11:53:03 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:53:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-113.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:53:21 -!- icbh [~icbh@ntszok076238.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:57:34 isak [~isak@78-73-90-85-no169.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:59:51 <|3b|> nikodemus: hmm, don't seem to have it anymore, but if i remember correctly i was just using the files from http://svn.textmate.org/trunk/Manual/pages/en/ concatenated together 12:00:21 <|3b|> nikodemus: make sure to have lots of ram free when parsing that with the 'doc' grammar in 3bmd though :) 12:00:34 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 12:01:51 <|3b|> 3bmd usually parses by just parsing the BLOCK grammar repeatedly until EOF instead of using DOC, since that lets it clear the cache between blocks 12:02:45 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-174.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:03:01 *|3b|* saw a paper about automating splitting up grammars like that, but didn't follow it well enough to try implementing it 12:04:38 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:05:28 so (parse '3bmd:doc *mydoc*)? 12:05:55 <|3b|> possibly 3bmd-grammar:doc, let me check 12:05:57 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 12:06:27 <|3b|> 3bmd-grammar::doc i guess, not exported 12:06:33 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:07:14 <|3b|> probably want to avoid printing the results for a big file too, probably pretty verbose 12:08:41 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:08:49 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:05 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.194] has joined #lisp 12:11:08 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 12:24:11 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:27:55 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 12:31:17 -!- prip [~foo@host188-121-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:11 prip [~foo@host188-121-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:32:41 LiamH [~healy@pool-141-156-241-30.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:54 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:40 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:06 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:34:12 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@46.205.102.199.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: lvt ops] 12:34:53 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:37:40 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:41:10 peddie [~peddie@18.181.2.107] has joined #lisp 12:43:11 <|3b|> ... and i think all this messing around with gray streams and stuff is on the wrong loading path, not the one i was trying to fix :( 12:44:31 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:44:31 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:44:32 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 12:44:51 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:45:03 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 12:45:41 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 12:45:47 What problem are you trying to fix? 12:47:12 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:49:41 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.110.83] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:56:05 <|3b|> trying to make M-. work on parenscript code 12:56:11 kontact_ [~kontact@dip-220-235-42-9.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:56:48 *|3b|* has a few cases working, but not all of them 12:57:33 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:44 <|3b|> doesn't help that i get confused about whether i'm looking at CL code or PS code, which is what i was complaining about just now 12:59:49 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:57 <|3b|> adding stuff to the ps stream processing doesn't help when it is CL code defining ps macros 13:00:29 sellout [~Adium@64.134.240.171] has joined #lisp 13:08:02 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:09:42 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:10:05 -!- peddie [~peddie@18.181.2.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:10:10 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-174.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:10:30 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:11:06 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 13:11:43 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 13:15:41 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17:15 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:17:38 TeMPOraL [~user@178.181.94.209.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:22:08 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:23:39 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 13:27:41 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:32:22 is there a reason there's no support for cp1252 in both babel and flexi-streams ? 13:32:51 I couldn't use it in drakma, so I started adding it in babel only to discover that flexi-streams doesn't use babel 13:36:39 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 13:36:49 galdor: nobody wanted it enough to write and/or pay for it? 13:37:22 good reason 13:37:40 ok, so I'm gonna add it to BABEL, send a patch, use :force-binary for drakma and decode the binary body myself 13:38:50 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 13:41:28 <|3b|> (flex:make-external-format :code-page :id 1252) ? 13:41:43 -!- larva_ [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 13:41:53 *|3b|* assumes that is the same cp1252 13:42:13 larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:45 -!- SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: SeanTAllen] 13:45:19 mhhh 13:45:32 it works, indeed 13:45:39 so it's in flexi-streams and not in babel 13:45:51 <|3b|> looks that way 13:46:34 thank you 13:48:25 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:49:30 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:50:10 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 13:51:10 pnq [~nick@AC8138D3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:32 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 13:53:30 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 13:55:24 Guthur [~Guthur@host81-131-244-118.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:13 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:03:02 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:22 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:37 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.36.10] has quit [Quit: bye] 14:16:32 -!- tcr [~tcr@217.162.131.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:17:09 chp 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joined #lisp 14:42:49 c|mell [~cmell@109.99.180.195] has joined #lisp 14:43:36 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:38 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:45:23 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-141-156-241-30.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:30 -!- codetonowhere1 [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:45:42 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:55 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.218.166] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48:37 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:51:05 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:51:18 and that's it, cp1252 support added to babel, patch sent on the ml 14:52:33 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.252] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:52:50 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.252] has joined #lisp 14:57:26 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 14:58:50 any lisp game programmers here 14:58:53 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:45 poorman [~poorman@98.124.121.179] has joined #lisp 14:59:49 looking to get into game programming using clozure but I searched and searched online and it seems that lisp game programming is a trade secret 15:00:27 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 15:00:56 LiamH [~healy@pool-141-156-241-30.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:49 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:02:26 nixfreak: there's lispbuilder-sdl, at least one opengl binding, at least one ncurses binding, and countless libs if you want to write browser games 15:02:40 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has left #lisp 15:02:46 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@178.181.94.209.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:02:46 nixfreak: try #lispgames for more informations 15:04:11 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Client Quit] 15:05:16 thx 15:05:30 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 15:05:44 -!- nu11ptr [~nu11ptr@adsl-76-235-211-176.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:06:11 nu11ptr [~nu11ptr@24-247-9-81.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:07:17 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Client Quit] 15:08:48 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 15:08:58 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:09:00 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Client Quit] 15:09:58 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:13:13 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 15:14:02 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 15:21:20 galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 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brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 16:02:21 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:06 carlocci [~nes@93.37.214.146] has joined #lisp 16:03:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:04:10 -!- Ratan [~mostakur2@115.127.15.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:04:25 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a35.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:34 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-252-173.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 16:05:54 pnq [~nick@AC814EC7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:38 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-105-75.btc-net.bg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:06:59 nixfreak, as an interesting bit of trivia check out GOAL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Oriented_Assembly_Lisp 16:10:03 udzinari_ [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:10:53 brodo_ [~brodo@p5B022682.dip.t-dialin.net] has 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[~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-231-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-113.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:46:30 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 16:47:51 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:35 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:51:38 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:52:59 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:55:26 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:56:09 nyef [~nyef@64.222.131.96] has joined #lisp 16:59:16 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw592034.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:38 Nshag [~none@92.143.239.218] has joined #lisp 17:01:08 TippenEin [~chatzilla@97.65.218.3] has joined #lisp 17:01:11 -!- Sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:24 Patagous [4e867828@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.134.120.40] has joined #lisp 17:02:27 -!- Patagous [4e867828@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.134.120.40] has quit [Client Quit] 17:05:17 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 17:05:19 bsod1 [~sinan@88.244.136.55] has joined #lisp 17:05:33 how can I save my SLIME REPL session to a file? 17:06:14 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 17:06:15 C-x C-s 17:06:23 like any other buffer. 17:06:35 xale: thanks 17:06:47 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:05 may need to set slime-scratch-file to something 17:11:18 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:30 If I add an A record for a new host in a domian, what TTL (if any) are lookups for that domain subject to? 17:12:36 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:45 (Off topic, I know, but lispers know everything.) 17:15:33 gigamonkey: I think the TTL (time to the new record to be in effect) is based on the old TTL value of the records. 17:16:46 And the TTL is just a guide for DNS servers. Sometimes the changes propagate much faster. 17:16:59 But I'm not an expoert. Just used Custom DynDNS. 17:17:58 And it seems that changing the TTL value to lower helps to prapagate faster. But I'm not sure about that. 17:18:29 I mean, when the TTL is for example one day, and some changes are wanted ASAP. 17:18:57 But maybe someone knows better... :-) 17:19:23 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:41 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21:35 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-141-156-241-30.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:21:52 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:48 -!- poorman [~poorman@98.124.121.179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:03 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.113.220] has joined #lisp 17:25:28 sakekasi [~sakekasi@99-28-149-24.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:01 How do I install a package in the windows implementation of gnu clisp? 17:26:17 Yes, the old TTL. So you must travel back in time, at least one old TTL duration, to set it to a few minutes or an hour, come back to present, change the A record, and then reset the TTL to a larger value. 17:27:02 So how does the TTL affect a host that hasn't existed in the past? 17:27:07 If you don't have a time machine, you need to be farsighted, and reduce the TTL to a small value before you change the A, or to change the A and be patient. 17:27:13 sakekasi: what do you mean? 17:27:27 zmv, I want to use split-sequence, but do not know how. 17:27:33 sakekasi: are you using quicklisp? 17:27:35 gigamonkey: AFAIK, it's the TTL of the SOA that matters, for creation. 17:27:43 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@208.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 17:27:44 gigamonkey, I am using gnu clisp 17:27:57 sakekasi: quicklisp is something on top of whatever Lisp implementation you are using. 17:27:59 sakekasi: split-sequence comes with a documentation. 17:28:19 See http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 17:31:44 pjb, the documentation does not tell me how to "install" the library. 17:31:56 pjb, I really don't get how libraries work in lisp 17:33:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-113.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:34:08 gigamonkey, I am installing quicklisp right now 17:35:01 gigamonkey, is quicklisp similar to easy_install in python? 17:37:37 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host81-131-244-118.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:37:48 pers [~user@72.sub-75-227-109.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 17:38:01 gigamonkey, do I have to reload and reinstall quicklisp every time I run lisp? 17:38:53 No, just follow the instructions it gives you after install. 17:38:54 agumonkey [~agumonkey@64.158.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:10 Bike, how about packages I get with (ql:quickload)? 17:39:29 You'll have to load them for your individual application, yes. 17:39:37 -!- bohanlon [~bohanlon@pool-108-20-68-105.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish!] 17:39:41 Think of it like a module import, maybe? 17:39:44 sakekasi: I think yes, it is similar to easy_install. 17:40:10 And it will tell you how to set things up so it is automatically loaded each time you start Lisp. 17:41:15 gigamonkey, so I just go (quicklisp-quickstart:install)? 17:42:03 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:43:06 Is there a command I can run so that I can do (split-sequence ... ) instead of (cl-utilities:split-sequence ...)? 17:44:28 First, it's (split-sequence:split-sequence ...). 17:44:37 Then you can use the package or import the symbol. 17:44:42 clhs use-package 17:44:44 clhs import 17:45:06 ASDF could not load sb-posix because Not an absolute pathname: #P~/.clc/systems/" 17:45:38 1- uninstall clc. 17:45:44 2- try again with quicklisp 17:45:54 pjb, when I use quicklisp it is cl-utilities:split-sequence 17:46:34 sakekasi: no. (ql:quickload :split-sequence) (split-sequence:split-sequence ...) 17:46:43 TippenEin: http://quicklisp.org/beta/release-notes.html talks about that a bit 17:46:47 pjb, oh ok 17:46:52 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:18 Guthur [~Guthur@host81-131-242-39.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:48:19 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:51 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-71-146-156-81.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:51 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:51:37 -!- pers [~user@72.sub-75-227-109.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 17:57:33 SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:58:12 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz] 17:58:53 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 17:59:46 How can I get the list of available encodings with babel? 18:00:22 Ah, (babel:list-character-encodings)... 18:02:14 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:03:53 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-174.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:05:22 codetonowhere [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:05:56 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 18:07:21 thanks Xach 18:08:48 i got rid of the controller-userdir.conf file 18:12:06 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:12:41 jesusito [~user@203.pool85-54-36.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 18:13:31 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41] has joined #lisp 18:15:28 how can I load my SLIME REPL session which I saved with C-c C-s 18:15:42 C-x C-s 18:16:23 <|3b|> usually you save thing you want to keep in .lisp files, and reload them when you want to continue later 18:17:56 |3b|: I saved a REPL session and it has line like CL-USER> so I can't eval it 18:18:26 lines* 18:18:28 *|3b|* would probably cut and paste the bits i wanted out of it in that case 18:18:38 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 18:19:06 <|3b|> SLIME keeps a history between sessions i think, so you might also be able to just M-p to search back to the form you want 18:19:06 bsod1: i find it preferable to use the slime scratch buffer 18:19:22 oGMo: what is slime scratch buffer? 18:19:24 you can save that and it doesn't have any cruft 18:19:32 *|3b|* does that as well, or just works directly from .lisp files 18:19:38 pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 18:19:43 bsod1: C-c s s 18:19:58 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.113.220] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:20:13 oGMo: C-c s undefined 18:20:20 <|3b|> M-x slime-scratch 18:20:30 yeah. my scratch buffer tends to evolve into chunks of code with a subject, then when i start a new "subject", i save them off to something else and empty scratch 18:20:49 lol it just an empty file *.* 18:21:12 ok so I just select a region and eval it every time I add some code, is it the best way? 18:21:13 <|3b|> empty buffer, no file yet 18:21:23 <|3b|> C-M-x to eval current top-level form 18:21:25 bsod1: exactly. but you can eval things from it, save it (set slime-scratch-buffer to a filename), and it'll automatically reload when you go to that buffer 18:21:33 <|3b|> C-x C-e to eval form ending before the cursor 18:21:40 <|3b|> C-c C-c to compile top-level form 18:23:13 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.115.97] has joined #lisp 18:23:17 <|3b|> C-c I RET at the beginning of a form can also be an interesting way to evaluate things, puts output into slime inspector 18:23:20 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:24:40 REPL's auto-complete works, slime-scratch's doesn't.. 18:25:28 assign tab to slime-fuzzy-indent-and-complete-symbol or similar 18:25:58 wow, it jsut worked with C-n (yes I'm using vimpulse) 18:26:04 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-174.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:35:33 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-113.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:38:43 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:39:00 Vinnipeg [~sa1vador@79.126.101.127] has joined #lisp 18:39:15 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:36 hi lisper ! 18:40:58 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 18:41:33 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 18:44:37 fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.186.29] has joined #lisp 18:45:16 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a35.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:00 glenn-ingvar [omi@bsd.jails.se] has joined #lisp 18:46:10 -!- Vinnipeg [~sa1vador@79.126.101.127] has left #lisp 18:46:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:47:16 xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 18:47:58 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:48:23 -!- [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:48:35 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:49:29 [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 18:51:55 Joreji [~thomas@134.61.66.232] has joined #lisp 18:52:15 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:55:42 -!- chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 19:00:15 how do I print decimal numbers without using format? 19:01:05 sakekasi: print is one way 19:01:10 using print/princ 19:01:50 when I type (print (/ 5 10)) I get 1/2 when I want 0.5 19:02:00 same with prin1 and princ 19:02:19 sakekasi: that's because (/ 5 10) evaluates to 1/2 19:02:21 because that's not a decimal 19:02:32 sakekasi: what you want is (print (/ 5.0 10.0)) 19:02:32 it's a Ratio 19:02:33 sakekasi: (print (float (/ 5 10))) 19:02:53 thanks 19:03:18 (print (float ...)) is what I was looking for 19:03:47 a float isn't generally considered to be a 'decimal' either. 19:04:13 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 sakekasi: If you're using it for anything other than quick checking at the REPL, you probably _do_ want FORMAT. 19:04:50 sellout, I am using it at the repl 19:05:07 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:05:13 -!- c|mell [~cmell@195.7.7.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:46 sakekasi: Then yeah, I use FLOAT there all the time :) 19:05:56 :) 19:06:12 *|3b|* just tries to remember to put a .0 on one of the numbers 19:06:22 I used to type (float *) 25 times per day until I did what |3b| does. 19:06:58 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@92.250.41.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:53 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:08:16 I just put a .0, much faster. 19:12:47 I tried to save-lisp-and-die but got "Cannot save core with multiple threads running." 19:13:01 slime-list-threads only shows the normal threads 19:13:11 <|3b|> yeah, it doesn't like threads, including the slime ones 19:13:40 Guthur: When I want to save a core, I start SBCL fresh and load exactly and only what I want, and don't run anything else, before saving. 19:13:56 ah, I think my plan is not going to work 19:14:03 i used to do that so often that i wrote buildapp to do it for me 19:14:22 I was going to try and use it to save development sessions so I could quickly reload 19:14:43 *|3b|* has considered using virtualbox for that 19:15:09 umm, not a bad idea 19:17:02 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 19:17:25 *|3b|* mostly just leaves stuff running until i feel like upgrading slime/sbcl anyway though 19:17:36 |3b|, any idea how well virtualbox might cope with a CL opengl application? 19:18:13 <|3b|> probably no worse than any other GL app, not sure it would be particularly well though, sort of depends on what you do with it i guess 19:18:35 <|3b|> GL is one of the reasons i didn't bother with it 19:18:58 yeah I'm thinking it might cause more pain that it would be worth 19:18:59 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-71-146-156-81.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:20:19 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:22:02 I've just noticed glop doesn't fail very nicely when you don't have opengl 3.x available and request it 19:23:23 pirx [~pirx@195.225.69.9] has joined #lisp 19:23:32 -!- Liera [~Liera@113.172.38.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:23:49 -!- pirx is now known as pirxs 19:26:34 stephenry [~user@76.218.106.17] has joined #lisp 19:27:38 -!- Areil [~user@113.172.38.206] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:29:39 -!- TippenEin [~chatzilla@97.65.218.3] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 19:29:49 -!- SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: SeanTAllen] 19:36:25 -!- sakekasi [~sakekasi@99-28-149-24.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:39:13 antoni [~user@124.Red-83-39-176.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:23 hey |3b| 19:45:25 :P 19:45:41 <|3b|> 'lo 19:46:16 *|3b|* looked at that swig stuff a bit more, but couldn't find any evidence that swig/cffi actually supports the STL stuff :( 19:46:23 <|3b|> (and some that it doesn't) 19:46:50 |3b| thanks for your attempts ^ ^ 19:47:38 so... is there anyway that I can access .NET library in CL ? 19:47:55 (if C++ lib access was impossible ) 19:49:44 try rdnzl 19:50:43 how will rdnzl handle with List , Seq, Pair ? 19:54:33 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-68.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:54:54 -!- cpape [cpape@linux01.gwdg.de] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 19:58:00 LiamH [~healy@pool-141-156-241-30.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:53 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:59:10 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 20:04:28 tomaw_ [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 20:07:18 Gmind: it provides access to appropriate classes 20:07:33 mind you, RDNZL isn't exactly current 20:07:37 alama [~alama@ip4dab5c2d.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 20:09:06 -!- tomaw_ is now known as tomaw 20:09:11 did anyone try calling winapi from lisp? I have trouble importing FindWindow, a couple of other functions I tried to import worked fine 20:09:15 http://ideone.com/b73aq 20:09:31 hsrt: remember to set correct calling convention 20:09:58 <|3b|> probably need to load a .dll 20:10:01 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0083.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 20:10:21 <|3b|> (msdn suggests User32.dll) 20:10:25 how come it worked for other 3 functions without setting calling convention or loading a dll? 20:10:55 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:10:58 <|3b|> probably they are in something the lisp already links for its own use 20:11:32 <|3b|> hmmm GetFocus us User32 also 20:11:42 yes 20:11:48 <|3b|> ah, maybe it is the wide/narrow char thing, tack a W or A at the end? 20:12:12 oh good idea, FindWindow is a macro in C 20:13:01 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.60.128] has joined #lisp 20:14:05 completely forgot that. thanks it works fine now 20:15:34 what'sthe difference between rest and cdr? 20:15:49 -!- jesusito [~user@203.pool85-54-36.dynamic.orange.es] has left #lisp 20:15:53 <|3b|> interpretation by human reader 20:16:09 <|3b|> REST implies the argument is a list 20:16:28 to make it more portable should I set calling convention and import library? on clisp it works without either 20:16:38 <|3b|> CDR is neutral or implies the argument might be used as a pair, binary tree, etc 20:17:05 |3b|: wow, thanks 20:17:30 <|3b|> REST goes with FIRST, SECOND, ... NTH as list operations 20:17:44 and cdr? 20:17:46 <|3b|> CDR and CAR are cons ops as opposed to list ops 20:18:09 <|3b|> but since lists are actually just conses, and since CAR and CDR are older, people still use them for lists too 20:19:00 thanks 20:19:53 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@134.61.66.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:20:54 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 20:21:44 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:29 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-174.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:23:06 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:24:50 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:00 -!- antoni [~user@124.Red-83-39-176.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:22 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0083.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:16 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-152-199.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:30 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-174.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:31:33 -!- pirxs [~pirx@195.225.69.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:08 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-152-199.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:35:50 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.147.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:36:55 Patagous [4e867828@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.134.120.40] has joined #lisp 20:37:55 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-152-199.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:38:54 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:41:13 MoALTz [~no@92.8.147.172] has joined #lisp 20:42:47 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:43:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-113.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:46:50 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host248-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:48:05 -!- codetonowhere [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:51:15 paul0` [~user@187.112.68.205] has joined #lisp 20:52:37 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.147.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:53:36 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host81-131-242-39.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:40 MoALTz [~no@92.8.242.214] has joined #lisp 20:58:24 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:59:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:02:24 -!- phrixos [~clarkema@adsl-83-100-226-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:22 chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 21:07:53 Landr [~user@78-21-55-104.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 21:09:24 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 21:09:53 salutations s-expreslings 21:11:04 lo ()-schleppers 21:12:36 -!- Patagous [4e867828@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.134.120.40] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:13:55 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:14:47 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B022682.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:01 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.186.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:16:58 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:18:54 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0112.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 21:19:03 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-092-076-088-069.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:30 -!- stephenry [~user@76.218.106.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:20:51 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.115.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:23:06 -!- agumonkey [~agumonkey@64.158.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:24:07 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0112.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:26:54 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:54 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:30:36 konr [~user@177.26.20.14] has joined #lisp 21:32:26 brodo [~brodo@p5B022393.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:10 davazp [~user@223.Red-83-46-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:31 jeti [~user@p548EA295.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:11 (setf symb (second name) name (car name)) <- is this guaranteed to work (is order of assignment guaranteed to be from left to right)? 21:41:24 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 21:43:00 hsrt: Yes, multiple pairs of arguments to setf are handled sequentially from left to right. 21:43:25 thanks 21:43:40 If you would prefer to evaluate all of the values first and then assign to the places, look at PSETF. 21:44:21 I'll keep that in mind, but for this setf does exactly what i wanted. 21:44:32 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 21:45:06 tomaw_ [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 21:45:12 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a35.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:22 well actually you're right, psetf would make things less confusing here. order wouldn't matter 21:48:28 stephenry [~user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:58 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:38 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:56:23 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:57:38 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:59:20 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:00:02 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:02:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:02:46 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:03:15 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:24 TeMPOraL [~user@46.204.74.115.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:05:41 maden [~maden@modemcable238.203-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:05:50 galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:12 -!- galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:07:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-93.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:09:30 Quadrescence [~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:09:34 -!- konr [~user@177.26.20.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl4E5C4928.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 22:10:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl4E5C4928.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Changing host] 22:10:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:12:45 -!- stephenry [~user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:14:32 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:15:54 anyone have some smallish coding ideas to kill time in this hotel 22:18:02 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:18:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:18:36 Quadrescence: Fix ECL's define-method-combination. 22:19:14 Quadrescence: write a javascript engine 22:20:18 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:21 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-141-156-241-30.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:21:16 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:43 panike [~nwp@76.201.158.192] has joined #lisp 22:24:15 Good morning everyone! 22:24:50 Quadrescence: Contribute to SICL. 22:25:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:23 Hello beach. 22:25:49 Hey nyef. Did sleeping on things help? 22:26:45 I think so, but I haven't really checked. 22:26:51 Been doing other stuff for much of the day. 22:27:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:30:11 *|3b|* suspects the warning about not having the same local nicknames when evaluating DEFPACKAGE would be more effective if it didn't error when it tried to print. 22:30:40 TeMPOraL` [~user@188.146.252.125.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:30:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-93.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:33:54 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@46.204.74.115.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:34:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:34:27 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-94-44-100-154.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 22:34:27 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 22:34:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-100-154.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 22:34:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:37:19 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:37:37 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:37:57 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:37:59 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:39:34 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:18 -!- Quadrescence [~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:42:48 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:43:33 *|3b|* suspects slime doesn't bind *package* before looking up symbol completions :( 22:43:43 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:46:35 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-58-83.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:49 jeti` [~user@p548EBB65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:02 -!- jeti [~user@p548EA295.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:51:47 -!- davazp [~user@223.Red-83-46-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:15 -!- beach [~user@116.118.1.69] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:13 beach [~user@116.118.0.213] has joined #lisp 22:56:22 -!- TeMPOraL` [~user@188.146.252.125.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: z/w] 22:56:38 xan_ [~xan@c-24-5-71-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:56 Quadrescence [~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:58:54 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:59:20 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:59:33 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 22:59:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:11:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:13:53 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:16:34 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Quit: new UPS] 23:22:48 tricus [~tricus@jesus.roamr.utk.edu] has joined #lisp 23:30:38 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.60.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:31:59 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.244.136.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:32:46 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 23:34:23 -!- tricus [~tricus@jesus.roamr.utk.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:12 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 23:36:38 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:48 LiamH [~healy@pool-141-156-241-30.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:24 -!- alama [~alama@ip4dab5c2d.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: alama] 23:41:02 konr [~user@177.26.20.14] has joined #lisp 23:43:27 <|3b|> yeah, seems to have been a combination of slime not binding packages around symbol lookup, and me not handling different types of package designators properly 23:44:21 *|3b|* isn't going to worry about trying to complete local package nicknames themselves though 23:44:49 -!- Nshag [~none@92.143.239.218] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 23:47:12 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-141-156-241-30.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:47:45 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 23:57:10 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 23:57:23 pnq [~nick@ACA27552.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:28 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:45 grantg [42e5650f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.229.101.15] has joined #lisp 23:58:45 afternoon folks 23:59:06 hello slyrus 23:59:25 hey fe[nl]ix, what's new?