00:00:53 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:58 -!- TippenEin [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:43 kpreid: Google finds three places: APPLY, the glossary, the index. :) 00:02:33 right, so I'm thinking: some things don't need names. 00:02:58 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.199.110] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:08:19 The documentation for forward-to-foo above can say that it takes a "spreadable argument list designator" instead of "the sort of thing that APPLY takes". 00:08:22 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:54 eli [~eli@129.10.115.117] has joined #lisp 00:11:22 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 00:13:31 asher9: can you write an emacs command to transform a if into a cond or a cond into a if/progn ? 00:14:22 asher9: (notice that the CL implementation already provide a COND macro to transform into a IF, and possibly a IF macro to transform into a COND, if it chooses to make COND a special operator). 00:15:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:19:13 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@209.119.73.178] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:19:55 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@85.100.72.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:20:47 longfin [~longfin@1.107.152.51] has joined #lisp 00:22:38 ... or possibly makes them both macros mapping to different constructs 00:24:06 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:24:37 Doesn't the CL standard explicitly state that IF is the special operator and COND is the macro? 00:25:21 Although it'd have to be a pretty contrieved example to have a program actually depend on that behaviour (dependin gon the second return value from MACROEXPAND?) 00:25:25 yes 00:25:32 if only there was some way to quickly look up that info 00:25:48 hyperspec lists IF as special operator and COND as a macro 00:26:06 Xach: I was so sure of myself that I didn't bother to look it up. I formualted it as a question to be more humble. 00:26:13 though old code will have cond instead of IF 00:27:01 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:08 I kind of like COND. Partially because that's the one I learned first, but also because it makes code cleaner. With IF, it's not visually clear that only one of the clauses will be evaluated. 00:27:35 There also seems to be disagreement on how to indent IF (emacs even has different indentation for IF for elisp and cl) 00:28:33 loke__: they have different structure 00:29:04 Ah yes. You mean the fact that elisp has the else statement being &rest, and cl only allows one? 00:29:10 yes. 00:29:16 Of course. Silly me 00:29:23 Thanks for clearing that up 00:29:41 I still prefer the visual appeal of COND :-) 00:30:18 Is there a specbot online here? 00:30:33 M-x slime-hyperspec-lookup 00:30:33 :-) 00:30:35 Bike: usually, but not right now. 00:30:47 ah 00:30:48 Bike: I like to use http://l1sp.org/cl/cond and similar URLs sometimes. 00:31:05 or http://xach.com/clhs?q=cond for doing a browser "smart bookmark" 00:31:14 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:31:26 Time to rush to the office. late laready 00:31:35 Googling «clhs [term]» usually suffices for me. I was just wondering, since I'm looking at the bot source now... 00:32:09 if always bothers me that my second let binding doesn't line up 00:32:20 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.191] has joined #lisp 00:33:19 -!- htierno [~htierno@108-100-16-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:33:51 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:33:52 -!- longfin [~longfin@1.107.152.51] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:18 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-161-73.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:38 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-132-51.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:37:49 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.245.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:39:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:39:13 I still can't tell if people are advocating against IF altogether. 00:39:35 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:48:03 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-148-251.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:02 asher9: It does not matter. It's not a question of any importance. It is a question of style and personnal preference. My suggestion is to write an emacs command to convert one into the other and vice versa, and to automatically convert to your prefered form when you load a lisp file (and possibly convert automatically into the other choice if the coworkers prefer it before saving). 00:50:25 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-161-73.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:51:09 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-207-1.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:26 asher9: For example, case doesn't matter. It's not a question of any importante. It is even not a question of style, barely of personnal preference. So I wrote emacs commands upcase-lisp and downcase-lisp, so that emacs can normalize the case of a lisp source automatically upon loading or saving files. 00:52:10 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-148-251.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:56:21 Triplefault [~caleb@adsl-145-219-93.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:53 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A6D3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:30 -!- BullShark is now known as CussingSailor 01:02:28 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:45 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 01:04:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:05:02 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:08:34 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:14:41 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14:55 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:15:25 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 01:19:58 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1A1F.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22:10 benny [~benny@i577A7149.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:35:11 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7149.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:35:52 -!- codetonowhere [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:37:36 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:41:13 kai_ [~kai@f052098120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:41:35 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:44:59 hoeppner [~chatzilla@c-76-23-118-31.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:41 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-207-1.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:45:59 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052098120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 01:46:03 kai_ [~kai@f052098120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:48:06 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_rdtabl.htm#readtable-case 01:48:54 case being one of :upcase, :downcase, :preserve, or :invert 01:51:11 so (setf (readtable-case *readtable*) :preserve) make CL case sensitive. (Now all you have to do is recompile ALL the libs to be as well or all well be in upper-case) 01:54:05 -!- Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 01:54:32 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 01:54:42 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has joined #lisp 01:56:20 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.233] has quit [Quit: Offline] 01:59:14 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-104-110.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:26 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:59:26 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-219-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:04:19 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-219-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:29 remember default is :upcase so if symbol is converted to upper-case on read unless enclosed in| eg |sensitive-symbol| 02:10:43 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052098120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:29 now (setf (readtable-case *readtable*) :invert) will :upcase on read and :downcase on write which seems to be what pjb wanted 02:14:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:15:06 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:16:59 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-168289.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:20:33 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:20:42 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:49 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:23:09 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.100.75] has joined #lisp 02:24:18 -!- georgek [~george@184-77-70-234.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:26:52 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:28:02 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 02:28:58 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:29:07 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has left #lisp 02:29:29 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839C05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:29:49 -!- hoeppner [~chatzilla@c-76-23-118-31.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:32:28 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:33:07 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.160.192] has joined #lisp 02:35:43 Triplefault_ [~caleb@adsl-145-224-209.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:31 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 02:39:16 -!- Triplefault [~caleb@adsl-145-219-93.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:42:25 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 02:45:49 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 02:47:48 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.160.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:48:11 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA34CF8.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:48:23 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:49:25 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:49:42 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 02:50:52 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:54:09 cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has joined #lisp 02:54:24 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has quit [Changing host] 02:54:24 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:55:25 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.133.118] has joined #lisp 02:57:33 (eq nil 'nil) and (eq t 't). Are there any other cases like this? 02:57:36 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:57:51 I guess these are specially treated. 02:59:53 Younder: I want :preserve 03:00:07 asher9: please see http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/syntax-and-semantics.html, Truth, Falsehood, and Equality 03:00:26 asher9: the expressions nil, (), 'nil, and '() all evaluate to the same thing 03:00:37 makks_ [~max@p5790F922.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:37 asher9: sure, anything that evaluates to itself. So, non-symbol atoms, and any variable or constant that's bound to the symbol that names it. 03:00:39 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:01:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:01:05 asher9: (do-symbols (s "KEYWORD") (assert (eq (symbol-value s) s))) 03:02:16 pnq [~nick@ACA4ECBA.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:02:58 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:03:07 Now, I fetch poly-pen which uses cl-gd, but cl-gd breaks because it cannot find gdImageCreateFromJpegFile ; indeed, in my libgd.so.2.0.0, there's only gdImageCreateFromJpegFile ; is cl-gd expecting a newer or an older version of libgd? 03:03:21 --> there's only gdImageCreateFromJpeg 03:03:57 -!- makks [~max@p5DE8FCA3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:04:10 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 03:04:12 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.160.192] has joined #lisp 03:07:09 Since gdImageCreateFromJpeg doesn't take an error argument, while gdImageCreateFromJpegFile does, I guess it's expecting a newer, but the mercurial repo for libgd seems to have the reduced gdImageCreateFromJpeg, so cl-gd might expect an older version... 03:07:58 And of course, there's nothing in the hg history of that file... 03:13:15 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:40 I don't know if I can unlearn constantly doing C-x C-s in emacs; it's so ingrained. This habit is useless with slime. 03:17:03 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:18:44 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 03:19:12 asher9: you can configure emacs to save automatically too. 03:21:16 drl_ [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 03:26:23 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 03:28:29 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:35:06 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:35:28 -!- drl_ [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:37:02 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:39:18 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:40:51 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:43:05 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:47:54 drl_ [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 03:48:39 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 03:48:55 xan_ [~xan@206.111.142.135.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:47 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:58:48 superjudge [~mjl@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 04:00:56 azaq231 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 04:01:52 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:02:59 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 04:05:20 bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:33 georgek [~george@184-77-70-234.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:44 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:09:22 -!- asher9 [~asher@c-24-91-59-62.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:15:27 say I have an object of class foo with slots bar, baz, and quux. I want to return a new object with the same bar and baz, but changing only quux. how can I do that? 04:17:46 peddie [~peddie@18.181.2.107] has joined #lisp 04:19:17 icbh [~icbh@211.128.192.238] has joined #lisp 04:21:59 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:25:54 m44001_ [~sv4001@cpe-75-84-150-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:26:13 -!- agoldson [~abg3x@unaffiliated/apot] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:28:09 Tordek: I think you have to instantiate a new instance with the old variables, or write a function to do the same. 04:28:13 -!- ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:19 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:30:55 Bike: like this? http://pastebin.com/qrGYDdFG 04:31:48 calling it with, say: (clone-with-changes foo (('quux 5))) 04:33:39 I think so, but you might want that as a macro. 04:35:07 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has 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[~user@adsl-99-24-219-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:26:57 good morning 06:27:05 -!- icbh [~icbh@211.128.192.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:27:06 -!- Bike [~arm_of_th@71-38-154-233.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:27:41 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:28:15 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:28:15 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:28:15 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:28:26 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 06:31:11 drl_ [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 06:31:16 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 06:31:25 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:31:44 bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:46 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-khobxhgndacdpgcs] has joined #lisp 06:36:10 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.127.96] has joined #lisp 06:37:06 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:37:21 -!- italic [~italic@cpe-67-242-144-94.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:39:00 -!- Triplefault_ [~caleb@adsl-145-224-209.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 06:39:46 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:40:44 bloop [43aa6450@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.170.100.80] has joined #lisp 06:40:53 noob here 06:40:59 I was wondering something about macros.... 06:41:08 how exactly are they scoped, if at all? 06:41:22 I mean, are they all global? can you have mutual recursion? 06:41:36 It depends on how you establish them. 06:41:53 See macrolet vs. defmacro. 06:42:11 ok. thank you. 06:42:14 -!- bloop [43aa6450@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.170.100.80] has quit [Client Quit] 06:43:03 Macros do not recursively expand, but expansion is iterative, so A can expand into B, which can expand into A, which can expand into B, ... 06:44:18 (defmacro m1 (a) (if (m2 a) `(something) `(something-else))) (defmacro m2 (b) (if (m1 b) `(hip ,b) `(lop ,b))) 06:45:28 But this would pose problem because m2 is not defined when m1 is defined, so when you define m2, it complains about undefined function m2. 06:46:11 And bloop as left the room, anyways. 06:46:47 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 06:48:04 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@99.192.99.224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:48:58 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:53:40 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:55:00 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has joined #lisp 06:56:58 leaveboy [~leaveboy@118.116.91.98] has joined #lisp 06:57:14 -!- leaveboy [~leaveboy@118.116.91.98] has left #lisp 06:57:40 wzlxx [~user@218.206.227.133] has joined #lisp 06:57:50 hi, cfy 06:58:13 psychologe [~user@117.136.12.247] has joined #lisp 06:58:25 -!- psychologe [~user@117.136.12.247] has left #lisp 06:58:31 wzlxx: hillo,so you decide to give up perl? 06:58:37 wzlxx: :) 06:59:08 cfy: no, perl is my first script 06:59:21 wzlxx: oh 07:03:57 -!- azaq231 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:07:58 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:07:58 splittist [~splittist@AMontsouris-553-1-20-3.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:08:13 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-90.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:09:16 morning 07:09:52 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:09:56 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:10:07 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-178-71.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:10:12 -!- rookievoice [~rookie@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:10:20 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-owrduznaljysqxvt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:11:23 guther 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[~alfa_y_om@89.129.116.150] has joined #lisp 09:16:50 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-31-39.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:53 -!- stis [~stis@host-95-194-57-5.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:19:08 stis [~stis@95.197.139.139] has joined #lisp 09:24:18 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:25:35 -!- stis [~stis@95.197.139.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:25:42 stis [~stis@host-90-235-149-134.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:27:08 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 09:27:41 ltriant [~ltriant@203-217-68-161.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:28:28 Hi, all. I'm reading Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming, and Norvig uses the notation '->' which he says is "purely decorative". Does that mean it is treated as whitespace by the interpreter/compiler? 09:29:54 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@89.129.116.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:20 stis_ [~stis@host-90-235-203-249.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:31:31 markskilbeck: no, it's not whitespace. 09:31:32 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-149-134.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:31:40 IIRC that's just PROLOG convention 09:32:25 It's treated as whitespace is, though, is what I'm asking, i.e. ignored? 09:32:35 Or does it serve some purpose? 09:36:04 orivej [~orivej@host-25-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 09:37:34 *|3b|* considers 'readability' an important purpose, but then lots of whitespace serves that purpose too 09:37:53 -!- stis_ [~stis@host-90-235-203-249.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:38:02 stis_ [~stis@host-95-197-166-7.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:38:23 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-104-110.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:32 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-104-110.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:39:10 <|3b|> from the description though, it sounds like something is ignoring it in some form, but don't know if it is a macro or custom parser or what, without digging up the book 09:39:24 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 09:39:27 <|3b|> (CL doesn't ignore it by default though, if that is what you are asking) 09:39:43 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:44:40 stis__ [~stis@host-95-193-105-204.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:44:42 -!- stis_ [~stis@host-95-197-166-7.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:44:44 Sikander [~userid@wirenat-lion.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #lisp 09:45:32 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 09:45:38 -!- Sikander [~userid@wirenat-lion.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 09:47:29 aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 09:47:37 -!- aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47:45 aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 09:48:02 cpape [cpape@linux01.gwdg.de] has joined #lisp 09:52:11 -!- stis__ [~stis@host-95-193-105-204.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:52:21 stis [~stis@host-95-197-249-8.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:53:27 benny` [~benny@i577A7991.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:54:07 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A3D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:31 -!- benny` is now known as benny 09:55:17 -!- naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.nbiserv.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 09:57:29 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:03:23 -!- stis [~stis@host-95-197-249-8.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:04:09 Soulman [~knute@80.202.238.250] has joined #lisp 10:04:31 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.83] has joined #lisp 10:06:21 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:07:56 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:08:46 -!- gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 10:12:39 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:16 -!- hydo [~cmoore@174-24-189-22.tukw.qwest.net] has left #lisp 10:14:49 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 10:17:16 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:17:20 -!- Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:18:26 hoeppner [~chatzilla@c-76-23-118-31.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:14 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.207.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:19:37 -!- Patagous [9584bdeb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.132.189.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 10:19:51 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:20:13 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 10:23:43 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 10:23:52 Vutral [FTjPH4Zng5@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:12 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:25:20 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:25:21 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 10:27:56 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:14 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:21 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:31:30 |3b|: I agree. Readability is important. 10:31:35 It doesn't ignore it by default? 10:32:13 -!- topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:38:21 markskilbeck: iirc, he has data in a list like this '(foo -> bar) 10:38:48 markskilbeck: he only accesses foo and bar in his code so -> is ignored 10:39:28 Ah! 10:39:40 Now I see. 10:39:49 markskilbeck: since it is a quoted list the compiler doesn't try to parse 10:39:53 '->' 10:40:25 markskilbeck: but this is from memory and quite a few years ago :) 10:40:40 aerique: you're absolutely right. 10:41:10 +1 for good memory 10:41:16 awesome, time to go get some lunch then 10:41:46 Well, it does parse it. 10:41:55 -> is a perfectly good symbol, though, so ... 10:42:21 Maybe you meant 'evaluate'. 10:42:37 Zhivago: yup, thanks 10:44:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:44:14 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:44:26 <|3b|> yeah, unused part of a quoted list was my next guess :) 10:45:06 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:51:30 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:18 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:53:07 -!- hoeppner [~chatzilla@c-76-23-118-31.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:55:35 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:56 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:56:16 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:58:22 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:02:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.83] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 11:04:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:06:23 icbh [~icbh@ntszok076238.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:08:11 -!- 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[Quit: Lost terminal] 12:32:45 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@180.184.25.64] has joined #lisp 12:33:22 drl_ [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 12:35:08 -!- TheRealLongshot_ [~longshot@180.184.32.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:36:03 gor[e] [~svr@87.242.97.4] has joined #lisp 12:37:49 urandom__ [~user@p548A7A1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:03 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 12:38:08 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 12:38:18 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has joined #lisp 12:38:36 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 12:38:39 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 12:39:26 what is the expected behavior in CLOS if one slot of a subclass is shadowing the slot of a superclass, do their properties get combined? or does only shadowing slot properties used 12:39:57 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:40:20 and is it normal to define shadowing slots in subclasses or is it kind of abusing the concept? 12:40:27 hoeppner [~chatzilla@c-76-23-118-31.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:32 i mean does people do it normally 12:40:36 ddo* 12:40:39 do* 12:40:55 -!- drl_ [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:40:58 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:41:39 kenanb: if you need to do that, it's probably better to abstract the slot out and only use accessors 12:41:57 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 12:42:22 kenanb: It's the same slot. 12:42:33 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-242-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:42:54 kenanb: There is no shadowing. 12:44:01 Zhivago: so what happens if you define a slot1 with initial value of 5 in a superclass and read-only, and slot1 with initial value of 10 in its subclass, and create an instance of subclass 12:44:15 does the slot1 get value 10 directly? 12:44:19 the default value of the nearest class gets used 12:44:43 and the type restrictions get cumulated 12:45:07 so if one class has (integer 4 10) and the other has (integer 2 6) the resulting type is (integer 4 6) IIUC 12:45:34 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 12:46:00 That means if one class has type (or null integer) and the other has (or null cons) you may only store NIL in the resulting class 12:46:15 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 12:46:35 i see 12:47:34 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:46 and does people normally choose to define slots in both a superclass and its subclass, or is it something people should stay away mostly 12:48:47 bsod1 [~sinan@88.242.72.6] has joined #lisp 12:49:22 hmm, i thing pkhuong's answer means stay away 12:49:39 kenanb: I have never needed to do that, but, then again, I pretty much never expose slots directly, or only because the autogenerated accessors fit the interface I want to have. 12:49:55 kenanb: When I want different initial values, I will use a subclass with different :default-initargs values. 12:50:25 I do not have to recap the slot description then. 12:50:33 i see 12:50:56 z0ltanz0ltan [736c1460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.108.20.96] has joined #lisp 12:51:02 thank you 12:51:11 kenanb: I don't know what you're trying to do, but slot definitions on many levels of a hierarchy are normal. Are you familiar with mix-ins? Perhaps they match your needs better. 12:51:14 Xach: I just noticed quicklisp is the only language-specific package manager which doesn't have a bash interface. 12:51:14 What use-case did you have in mind? Different initial values, or something else? 12:51:35 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:51:49 Won't users be scared if you tell them to type "(ql:quickload 'myapp) (myapp:myapp)" to install and run the application? 12:52:05 I mean users who never worked with Lisp. 12:52:15 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:52:33 -!- z0ltanz0ltan [736c1460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.108.20.96] has left #lisp 12:52:39 naryl: I don't think quicklisp is particularly suited to delivering applications to people who don't want to care about the language involved. There are other options for application delivery. 12:52:59 naryl: I picture Quicklisp as a tool for Lisp developers to avoid the problems associated with fetching and using supporting libraries. 12:53:28 drl_ [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 12:53:28 So Gems and CPAN are trying to do what they shouldn't? 12:53:39 naryl: I am making no comment on those systems. 12:53:42 ok 12:53:50 naryl: they certainly aren't quicklisp. 12:54:18 Climacs and the window managers are kind of exceptions, I suppose. 12:54:52 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:54:53 the window managers? There are others than stumpwm? 12:55:10 flip214, Xach: no use-case at all, i am learning factor in parallel, i realized the consequences of shadowing slots in factor were not very well defined and i thought CLOS somehow handles them probably better, so i wanted to ask you how. :) 12:55:25 naryl: http://common-lisp.net/project/clfswm/ 12:55:39 Thanks. 12:55:46 <|3b|> there is also eclipse 12:56:10 kenanb: they are well-defined, but not used often, that I can tell. 12:57:22 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:46 factor oop interface is much influenced from CLOS so i was hoping to see what would be the better way 13:00:07 -!- orivej [~orivej@host-96-146-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:00:14 in factor if you define same slot in both a class and its subclass, you get both slots in the instances of the subclass, accessors and writers only access to slot of subclass, so there is no problem here 13:00:44 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 13:00:44 but the instance constructor functions does access wrong slots 13:02:21 i think the maintainer has already solved the issue but it is always good to learn the lisp way :) 13:03:13 -!- drl_ [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:04:01 kenanb: clhs 4.3.4.1. The slot definitions are combined. Since everything goes through late-bound accessors in CLOS, there's no issue of whether the slot is duplicated or not: there's no way for the user to tell. 13:05:01 7.5.3 covers the details. 13:05:21 pkhuong: thank you, i am reading them now 13:06:22 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 13:06:28 -!- CussingSailor [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/nanomachine] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:06:31 Good morning, all. 13:06:43 morning ChibaPet 13:07:04 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:07:05 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:08:04 sellout [~Adium@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:07 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-adlogxiwvjujulhf] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:09:08 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:09:47 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] 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Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:07 -!- hoeppner [~chatzilla@c-76-23-118-31.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:57:44 carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.23] has joined #lisp 13:58:42 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:59:25 -!- drl_ [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:00:07 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755eb0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:44 agoldson [~abg3x@unaffiliated/apot] has joined #lisp 14:02:09 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 14:02:14 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.100.75] has joined #lisp 14:04:20 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 14:05:12 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has joined #lisp 14:06:16 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 14:06:38 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:07:13 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:07:44 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:08:22 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:42 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:22 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:11:11 is there something like a nil character? e.g. something that will work with char= but is as unlikely to be in my character stream as nil? 14:11:54 maybe you get nil to indicate EOF? 14:12:09 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:12:11 hmm makes sense 14:12:20 drl_ [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 14:13:33 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:13:47 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 14:14:00 makks: gensyms are another alternative 14:14:19 xan_ 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[~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-231-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:32 I have four cases of (and char (char= char #\Foo)) and Id like to avoid that. 14:36:47 Just use eql. 14:36:51 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:37:12 I use char='s mutiple arguments fature 14:37:31 rlb3 [~rlb@2620:0:28a0:2200:5c67:3e46:6218:bab4] has joined #lisp 14:37:41 Maybe you need to be more specific about your problem. 14:37:49 <|3b|> (member char '(#\foo #\bar ...)) ? 14:38:00 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-wbrkanofatmyecvq] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:38:12 *|3b|* probably guessed wrong 14:38:36 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-brjeheztrtifzntv] has joined #lisp 14:40:07 whats the difference between MEMBER and MEMBER-IF with (lambda (char) (char= char foo)) ? 14:40:37 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:40:58 one is silly in the presence of the TEST argument to MEMBER. 14:41:19 and EQL will also work on non-characters. 14:41:23 <|3b|> member without :test uses EQL, so wouldn't error when char isn't a character 14:42:00 <|3b|> member with :test #'char= would be similar to member-if with that lambda 14:42:05 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:43:14 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:47 Patagous [9584bdeb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.132.189.235] has joined #lisp 14:44:32 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:45:13 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 14:45:44 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-134-238.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:46:08 vsedach [~user@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:46:34 Hunden [~Hunden@141.62.34.32] has joined #lisp 14:46:44 Hundenn [~Hunden@141.62.34.32] has joined #lisp 14:46:52 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.127.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:13 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:48:01 -!- Patagous [9584bdeb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.132.189.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:48:33 depending on what you're doing, CASE might also be a good fit 14:48:41 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.23] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 14:48:43 hoeppner [~chatzilla@c-76-23-118-31.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:47 (case char ((#\Foo) ...) ((#\Bar) ...) ...) 14:48:49 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:48:55 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:49:03 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 14:49:09 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:49:31 alama [~alama@n138232.science.ru.nl] has joined #lisp 14:50:14 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 14:53:19 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:00 -!- vsedach [~user@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:23 vsedach [~user@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:54:53 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:57:34 Landr [~user@78-21-55-104.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 14:58:13 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 14:58:13 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 14:58:13 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:59:34 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:00:11 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:00:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Client Quit] 15:06:40 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:07:33 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 15:07:53 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:08:49 kai_ [~kai@e179019149.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:20 -!- kai_ is now known as ainvar 15:10:03 -!- ainvar is now known as wetnosed 15:10:47 -!- vsedach [~user@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:11:58 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:14:24 markskilbeck [~markskilb@host86-137-38-173.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:25 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@host86-137-38-173.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:14:25 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 15:17:37 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has joined #lisp 15:19:51 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:21:05 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-231-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:21:41 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:21:41 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 15:23:26 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:24:30 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 15:25:04 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2B2F0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:26:28 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:44 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:02 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has joined #lisp 15:28:16 -!- spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:28:57 carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.23] has joined #lisp 15:29:13 -!- rookievoice [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:30:16 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:21 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:34:09 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 15:34:24 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has quit [Quit: be back later] 15:36:09 -!- rumina [~rumina@88-148-206-252.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:36:21 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:56 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has joined #lisp 15:37:06 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:37:16 lolwut_ [~krakatoa@cpc24-slam6-2-0-cust231.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:37:24 -!- sellout [~Adium@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:32 rumina [~rumina@88-148-206-252.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:37:33 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:38:23 sellout [~Adium@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:00 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 15:39:32 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.248.64] has joined #lisp 15:39:36 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 15:40:31 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-usweuboollkvcggy] has left #lisp 15:41:31 pkhuong: Around? 15:43:06 mr phkuong!, mr phkoung please! 15:43:27 -!- sellout [~Adium@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:35 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:43:47 rookievoice [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:43:50 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:44:09 rtoym: pong. 15:45:12 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:45:35 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:46:01 -!- wetnosed [~kai@e179019149.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:03 well emacs regex are not recognized by case 15:46:22 sellout [~Adium@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:50 Patagous_ [970fec36@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.15.236.54] has joined #lisp 15:46:51 i have for example had a CSV in ido-ignore-buffers-regex or some such, and upon loading ecb, the ecb-directorys pane would not show a folder named cvs 15:47:10 err s/CSV/CVS/ above 15:47:24 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:30 rtoym: I had something like . It doesn't happen anymore, though. 15:47:34 cvs is yet downcase and the regex filter was upcase 15:47:51 pirx [~pirx@195.225.69.9] has joined #lisp 15:47:54 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:11 orivej [~orivej@host-109-146-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 15:48:51 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 15:48:52 pkhuong: Why doesn't it happen anymore? Because you upgraded? 15:49:13 Bronsa [~brace@host146-179-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:49:42 pkhuong: Also, I'm pretty sure I"m using asdf2 which is working for me. 15:50:30 *rtoym* doesn't know why he named the file maxima.asd even though it's for matlisp. :-) 15:51:40 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:51:46 rtoym: and it seems I'm *not* using asdf2! 15:52:14 Haha. So your patch is really for asdf support, not asdf2. :-) 15:52:19 right (: 15:52:29 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:55 Ok. I'll apply the patch, since it works for you with asdf. 15:52:55 Not sure why the m4 thing doesn't happen anymore, even when I force autoreconf to use the system m4, but it's a known issue. 15:53:50 Yeah, I'll add a note about that. As if anyone ever reads the INSTALL or ISSUES files. 15:54:03 autoreconf -vi ? 15:54:28 did you remove the autom4.cache folder ? 15:55:05 -!- pirx is now known as pirxs 15:55:19 I did not, but I've always been using m4 1.4.6 to do the initial development. 15:55:51 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-69-141-20-254.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:56:02 Cleaned the cache, forced it to use OS X's gm4, and lossage ensued. 15:56:26 Why didn't that happen to me? 15:56:31 *rtoym* goes to try it. 15:56:40 linkage issues ? 15:57:00 or are the parsers "kaputt" ? 15:57:44 Ah, maybe because autoreconf runs /opt/local/bin/autoconf? 15:58:09 I still use OS X autotools. 15:58:19 But I only have /usr/bin/m4. There's no m4 anywhere else. 15:58:53 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:59:13 well, why would it look in /opt/local then ? 15:59:20 I don't even know why I have that version of autoconf. Perhaps when I had to install or build octave? 16:00:11 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:01:38 awesome. Apple's autotools isn't compatible with its own m4, but using a third-party m4 or autotools fixes that issue. 16:02:08 tritchey [~tritchey@161.82.8.239] has joined #lisp 16:02:37 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:02:37 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:05:27 Jasko [~tjasko@161.82.11.254] has joined #lisp 16:05:37 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:05:59 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:22 -!- woudshoo` [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:07:41 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:12:39 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host146-179-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:12:58 Bronsa [~brace@host146-179-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:13:49 osoleve [~osoleve@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:09 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-2-19.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:15:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-2-19.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 16:15:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:15:27 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:16:27 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 16:17:04 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.nbiserv.com] has joined #lisp 16:17:26 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-226.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:08 HG` [~HG@p5DC04CF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:31 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host146-179-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:18:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:20:10 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 16:20:10 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:20:24 I tried clojure and don't like it, and I don't think Scheme will have the library support I want, so I may be coming back to CL. 16:20:35 is there a decent library to create wav files? 16:20:49 I don't think that wav files require a decent library. 16:21:06 But I don't know of one -- it shouldn't take long to write one though. 16:21:52 Bronsa [~brace@host146-179-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:22:09 https://ccrma.stanford.edu/CCRMA/Courses/SoundSynthesis/ 16:22:53 ah, thank you 16:23:59 brandelune [~suzume@124.154.42.59] has joined #lisp 16:25:30 osoleve: There are packages called binary-types and com.gigamonkeys.binary-data if you need to roll your own wav file reader. There might be something in the shuffletron music player. 16:26:20 i'll look into it, but this isn't really a project where it's worth rolling my own library, yet 16:26:32 could be a fun project, though 16:26:47 Bike [~arm@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 16:29:19 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:30:49 looks like CLM might have what I want, thanks homie 16:32:28 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:22 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:42 I know it's a silly question, but I still don't know how to print number from 1 to n in common lisp (learning common lisp for 2 days now) 16:33:49 loke_ [~elias@bb116-15-201-73.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:33:53 also, is there a way to run a cl program without repl :S 16:34:09 bsod1: (loop for i from 1 to n do (print i)) is one way 16:34:31 bsod1: for the second question, varies by implementation. 16:34:39 Xach: should I use loop ? I thought "loop considered harmful" in lisp 16:34:46 Xach: sbcl? 16:35:16 If anyone tells you loop is harmful in Common Lisp, go ahead and punch them in the neck. 16:35:23 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:30 -!- loke__ [~elias@220.255.193.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:35:35 Xach: how would you print numbers from 1 to n ? would you use loop? 16:35:42 bsod1: When I want to make command-line applications in sbcl, I use Buildapp. 16:35:54 mheld_ [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:57 I'm wondering the lisp way to do this 16:36:06 bsod1: I would revisit the mistakes in my life that led me to want to print the numbers from 1 to n 16:36:10 Xach: is it the easiest way? What about clisp? 16:36:14 but then i would probably use loop 16:36:19 :) 16:36:23 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:36:33 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:37:12 bsod1: DOTIMES. 16:37:13 bsod1: in general, you can either dump an (executable) image that only executes a function of yours, or load your file and make sure the implementation quits at the end. 16:37:18 naryl: that counts from 0. 16:37:25 :/ 16:37:30 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:37:44 Or just use FORMAT and ALEXANDRIA:IOTA ;) 16:38:18 naryl: there's also alexandria:map-iota 16:39:04 osoleve: I believe slyrus was using my binary-data library to grok some kind of audio files (or maybe it was image files). Anyway, he's often here. You might talk to him. 16:39:06 CussingSailor [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/nanomachine] has joined #lisp 16:39:51 gigamonkey, okay, i'll keep an eye out for him 16:39:57 bsod1: here's the simplest way I can think of. (print "1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10") 16:40:00 i'm really looking to write wav files, though, not read them 16:40:10 binary-data goes both ways. 16:40:25 gigamonkey: what if you have to get N from user? 16:40:40 Get it in advance. ;-) 16:40:43 gigamonkey: http://xkcd.com/221/ 16:41:14 It prints all numbers from 1 to N where allowed values for N are: 10. 16:41:22 bsod1: make the user want to print from 1 to 10 16:41:32 lol 16:42:59 (format t "~{~a~^, ~}" (loop for i from 1 to n collect i)) 16:43:38 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@2620:0:28a0:2200:5c67:3e46:6218:bab4] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:43:47 damn it shouldn't be that hard 16:44:03 Is there a handy function to do with-output-to-string but instead outputs to an array? 16:44:11 bsod1: it's not. People have given you several suggestions. 16:44:15 rlb3 [~rlb@2620:0:28a0:2200:5c67:3e46:6218:bab4] has joined #lisp 16:44:21 herbieB: flexistreams has such a thing 16:44:34 gigamonkey: what is the lispy solution for this? 16:44:44 there should be one best way to do this 16:44:51 also notice that you can pass a character array to with-output-to-string 16:44:57 Why. It's not something you'd ever actually want to do. 16:45:02 _JusSx_ [akhenathon@adsl-ull-79-163.41-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 16:45:02 Here's a better one though: 16:45:05 bsod1: Personally I wrote mapint, (mapint #'identity to start) 16:45:06 (format "~{~A~^ ~}" (alexandria:iota 10 :start 1)) 16:45:12 (format t "~{~r~^, ~}" (loop for i from 1 to 10 collect i)) 16:45:37 tcr1: Hmmmmm, I have resisted flexistreams for so long 16:45:41 -!- hoeppner [~chatzilla@c-76-23-118-31.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:46:11 But it looks like with-output-to-sequence is what I want 16:46:18 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:19 herbieB: Maybe you're just looking for adjustable arrays and something on top of vector-push-extend? 16:46:40 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 16:46:45 herbieB: looks like me lisp doesn't have something like mapint 16:46:56 bsod1: THat's why I wrote it :P 16:47:23 bsod1: Under the covers, it's (loop for i from start to to collect (funcall func i)) 16:47:25 herbieB: notice that there's alexandria:map-iota 16:48:03 I s'pose the «lispy» way to do it would be to write an abstraction appropriate to your needs? 16:48:21 tcr1: Nodndo 16:49:35 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.23] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 16:50:49 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 16:51:31 Oh, this reminds me. Does anybody use that SERIES thing? 16:51:51 rahul does. 16:52:10 -!- brandelune [~suzume@124.154.42.59] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 16:55:24 I do 16:55:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:55:47 but I use kind of a bastardized version 16:59:07 pnq [~nick@host-161.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 16:59:10 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:43 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:00:03 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:00:40 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 17:00:55 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has joined #lisp 17:00:58 Tau [~tau@189-127-61-178.i-next.psi.br] has joined #lisp 17:02:13 vsedach [~user@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:02:34 akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-093-204.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:03:32 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:05:10 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:05:58 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:06:53 -!- Tau [~tau@189-127-61-178.i-next.psi.br] has left #lisp 17:07:16 rickardg [~rickardg@c-4a76e655.026-41-73746f50.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:07:35 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 17:08:11 BountyX [~erhan@csu-137-148-237-237.csuohio.edu] has joined #lisp 17:09:11 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:09:34 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 17:11:54 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:12:15 -!- Patagous_ [970fec36@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.15.236.54] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:15:28 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:29 -!- rickardg [~rickardg@c-4a76e655.026-41-73746f50.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:40 rickardg [~rickardg@c-4a76e655.026-41-73746f50.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:16:27 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:17:50 C-Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has joined #lisp 17:18:33 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@141.62.34.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:19:03 am0c [~am0c@112.158.237.55] has joined #lisp 17:19:24 is there any way to keep *print-circle* tracking objects across multiple writes? 17:19:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:19:50 -!- xan_ [~xan@206.111.142.135.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:19:55 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@141.62.34.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:20:46 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@99.199.165.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:18 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has left #lisp 17:29:22 Hello-lispers! 17:30:39 -!- jjong [~user@203.246.179.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:28 When defining a self-referencing LOGICAL-PATHNAME-TRANSLATIONS is it important that the right-hand side of a translation doesn't maintan case-sensitivity? 17:32:00 danlentz [~danlentz@c-69-141-20-254.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:14 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-69-141-20-254.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:32:42 danlentz [~danlentz@c-69-141-20-254.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:43 mon_key: you mean when the right hand side is a logical pathname, too? 17:32:54 I'm not sure what "self referencing" means. 17:32:55 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-69-141-20-254.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:33:10 Yeah, is pastlisp up? 17:33:21 paste 17:33:24 danlentz [~danlentz@c-69-141-20-254.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:27 I don't know. If the right side is a logical pathname, it is folded to uppercase. 17:33:45 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-69-141-20-254.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:34:19 danlentz [~danlentz@c-69-141-20-254.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:15 huh, cuz i'm getting lowercase, e.g. '(("BASE;**;*.*" "/my/path/here/**/*.*") ("SUB-BASE;**;*.*" "HOST:BASE;some-sub;***.*")) 17:36:21 IOW, regarless of whether ";some-sub" 17:36:38 NM I need to paste. sorry 17:36:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:37:11 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@2620:0:28a0:2200:5c67:3e46:6218:bab4] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:37:22 jikanter [~quassel@66.146.192.40] has joined #lisp 17:37:46 rlb3 [~rlb@2620:0:28a0:2200:5c67:3e46:6218:bab4] has joined #lisp 17:38:27 -!- jikanter [~quassel@66.146.192.40] has quit [Client Quit] 17:38:58 phrixos [~clarkema@unaffiliated/phrixos] has joined #lisp 17:39:13 jikanter_ [~quassel@66.146.192.40] has joined #lisp 17:40:24 -!- naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.nbiserv.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 17:41:48 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-119-17.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:45:19 http://pastebin.com/GHpiTrdr 17:46:09 -!- BountyX is now known as truva 17:46:52 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-248-115.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:46:53 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:48 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host12-35-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:48:08 What are the doc and doc-p functions used for? I can't find anything online. 17:48:20 Posterdati [~tapioca@host12-35-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:48:23 markskilbeck: what doc and doc-p functions? 17:48:46 mon_key: If you want a case-sensitive final value, add a non-logical translation for it. 17:49:01 Well, if I type "doc" and hit TAB, doc and doc-p show up as completions for it. 17:49:07 That's in Lispbox, BTW. 17:49:13 I assumed they were functions. 17:49:42 markskilbeck: You'll have to find where they're defined and check there. They're not standard things. 17:49:46 M-. doc might tell you. 17:49:54 Xach: cheers. 17:50:59 Xach: OK. Thanks. Kinda what i expected... :( 17:51:06 wccoder [~wccoder@99.199.165.19] has joined #lisp 17:51:44 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.nbiserv.com] has joined #lisp 17:52:20 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:52:51 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:53:39 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.207.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:53:44 -!- naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.nbiserv.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:55:55 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:56:02 -!- rickardg [~rickardg@c-4a76e655.026-41-73746f50.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: rickardg] 17:56:22 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 17:57:25 Any opinions on whether this is an oversight in the spec. or am i misunderstanding the point of a LOGICAL-PATHNAME-TRANSLATIONS? IOW if the translation can't preserve case then how does one cascade right-hand-side path translations on case-sensitive file-systems? 17:58:06 mon_key: I think the point of logical pathnames is for lowest-common denominator stuff. 17:58:23 l-c-d? 17:58:47 I.e. if you're using logical patnames and you need case sensitivity, you're doing it wrong. 17:59:06 That said, I tend to ignore the existence of logical pathnames so I may not fully understand your question. 18:01:21 -!- loke_ [~elias@bb116-15-201-73.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:04:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:04:21 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-242-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 18:04:24 gigamonkey: Assuming it is allowed/specified that one can cascade translations on the R-H-S then i'm not understanding how not-preserving case on translation is in the spirit of the logical pathname "thang". My impression was that only the left-hand side should be case agnostic? 18:05:10 mon_key: Okay, ignore me, I don't really know anything about logical pathnames. 18:05:14 The point of logical pathnames is to allow you to embed pathnames in your code that are not real pathnames on the filesystem, but conceptual (or "logical"). The point is also not to allow automatic translation from arbitrary, user-supplied or runtime-supplied logical pathnames to every possible arbitrary logical pathname. 18:05:17 macrocat [~marmalade@99.192.96.192] has joined #lisp 18:05:45 The section in CLTL2 has some clarifying examples. 18:06:37 The idea in CLTL2 seems to be that you know every single logical pathname in your application, and on delivering to a system with wildly different pathname structure, you provide a translation for each one, without touching a line of core application code. 18:07:12 Xach: I'm looking at CLTL2 examples around p. 633 18:07:13 People who complain that "I can't reach ~/.X11/XDefaults with logical pathanmes!" are trying to use them for the wrong thing. 18:08:11 (In that example, your code might try #p"X11:DEFAULTS-FILE.TXT" or something, and you might have a translation for that exact case.) 18:08:25 Xach: FWIW I'm not doing anything around "~/" if that is the implication :) 18:08:46 EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:27 mon_key: The mixed case is the implication. 18:09:48 OK looks like the relevant discussion in CLTL2 is on p 635 section 23.1.5.5 18:10:28 "(If logical pathnames were case-sensitive, it would be very difficult to map them into a file system that is not sensitive to case in its file names)" 18:10:51 loke [~elias@bb116-15-201-73.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 18:14:15 So any pathname specified as a "logical" translation on the right-hand side can't be expected to preserve case. 18:15:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:17:39 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has joined #lisp 18:17:41 -!- truva [~erhan@csu-137-148-237-237.csuohio.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:18:34 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:36 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:37 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@180.184.25.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:19:01 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has joined #lisp 18:20:43 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 18:21:29 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@2620:0:28a0:2200:5c67:3e46:6218:bab4] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:22:41 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04CF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:20 "Alexandria will not (initially, at least) subsume or provide functionality for which good-quality special-purpose packages exist, like split-sequence. Instead, third party packages such as that may be "blessed"." 18:23:37 Maybe it should bless cl-fad instead of reimplementing copy-file and copy-stream? 18:24:11 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:24:42 lanthan [~ze@84.183.191.86] has joined #lisp 18:24:47 Patagous [970fec36@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.15.236.54] has joined #lisp 18:25:02 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:27:19 HG` [~HG@p5DC054DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:51 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 18:28:21 cl-fad's versions don't provide the same functionality 18:30:52 (granted, the differences are trivial, but at this point i'd rather extend alexandria's versions with anything that cl-fad's versions have than strip them from alexandria) 18:31:36 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has joined #lisp 18:31:56 xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 18:36:35 -!- pirxs [~pirx@195.225.69.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:49 rtoym: have you considered using dynamic-extent arrays rather than global 1x1 arrays? 18:39:57 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:39:59 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.100.75] has joined #lisp 18:40:01 (for matlisp, still) 18:41:05 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:43:06 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:43:44 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0033.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 18:47:12 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:38 drdo [~user@93.108.205.91] has joined #lisp 18:52:33 xale: Think about it! What would the printer have to do to refer to sub-sexps previously printed? 18:52:54 bubo [~bubo@91-114-181-179.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:54:52 there are a few obvious ways to do it. 18:54:54 oh man, i got clm working halfway, it's just not playing the test.snd files 18:55:33 not even mplayer plays them 18:55:33 (defvar *a* (list 1 2 3 4)) (list* 1 2 3 4 *a*) *a* 18:56:30 xale: but in general,l it would mean that everything would have to be tagged with #=, and everything printed out would have to be remembered. 18:56:52 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 18:56:55 xale: notice that the REPL usually remembers only the last three interactions (slime may remember more). 18:59:01 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:59:35 brodo [~brodo@p5B022FC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:55 So, what about getting output for the above three expressions: #1=*A* #2=(1 . #3=(2 . #4=(3 . #5=(4 . #6=(1 . #7=(2 . #8=(3 #9=(4 . nil)))))))) #5# 19:00:07 xale: would you be happy with that? 19:00:10 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B022FC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 19:00:18 labeling everything is one way, but probably not the best one. a slightly better approach might be to group printing operations and delay the actual printing. 19:00:38 xale: that's the only possible way, until you have a time machine to know what output you will want. 19:01:00 If I type next: (nthcdr (random 8) **) 19:01:05 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:01:17 it should be able to print anything from #2# to #9#. 19:01:30 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 19:01:59 xale: So foryou slightly better approach, the grouping operator is called VALUES or LIST. 19:02:28 you can't put formatting operations in a list. 19:06:13 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 19:06:38 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:09 Ok. I don't think there's a way to do it conformingly, other than re-implement the printer, or patch the implementation. 19:07:41 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:08:08 Notice: (format t "~S ~:*~S~%" '#1=(1 . #1#)) --> #1=(1 . #1#) #1=(1 . #1#) 19:08:59 *print-circle* is processed by WRITE, and WRITE is called several times. 19:11:40 I guess that might be a bit out of the *print-circle*'s scope. but it still would be useful, in any other form. 19:12:23 xale: there's another problem with such a feature: (let ((a (list 1 2 3))) (with-printing-shared-structures (print a) (setf (fisrt a) 42) (print a))) 19:12:34 xale: It'll be difficult to avoid printing 42 twice... 19:13:02 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0033.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:15 cheezus [~Adium@69.196.171.160] has joined #lisp 19:13:31 And here we're dealing only with the simpliest mutable structure, the CONS cell, but you will have much more complex mutable structures to deal with, including CLOS objects. 19:13:37 and their PRINT-OBJECT methods. 19:14:26 xale: I think you cannot do something that works well in general. You should probably write your own solution specific to your application (dealing with your specific types of data). 19:17:19 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:19:45 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 19:25:47 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 19:25:57 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:26:06 I'm trying to load opticl in sbcl, but I get a "The name "SB-CLTL2" does not designate any package." 19:26:25 is there something I'm doing wrong ? 19:26:45 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:27:24 pjb: this example with mid-printing mutation is not any different from, say, an object changing itself in 'print-object'. 19:28:14 pjb: and this hypothetical feature would only really need to support uses such as "~{~s~}". 19:28:16 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:28:57 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.179.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:28:57 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:28:59 pjb: so it does not look any more problematic than *print-circle* already is. 19:29:13 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:29:13 xale: right, but the point is that I/O is time dependant, and if you want to get #1=(1 . #2=(2 . #3=(3 . nil))) #1=(42 . #2) then you have to keep not only the mutable objects, but also their values at each stages of the printing process. 19:29:59 xale: PRINC honors *print-circle* too, since it just calls WRITE. 19:30:22 galdor: How did you try to load opticl? 19:30:27 To implement with-printing-shared-structures you would only have to patch the WRITE function. 19:30:45 (unless the implementation uses some shortcuts). 19:32:16 bloop [48053b8b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.5.59.139] has joined #lisp 19:32:18 -!- Buganini [~buganini@2001:c08:2600::379] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:20 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 19:32:26 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:32:37 -!- splittist [~splittist@AMontsouris-553-1-20-3.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: and that's enought of that] 19:32:51 if the "special" operator were removed, would you miss it? 19:32:52 Bike: with (asdf:load-system 'opticl) 19:33:13 bloop: special is not an operator, it's a declaration. 19:33:38 pjb: would you miss it? 19:33:44 bloop: dynamic binding can be implemented over lexical binding, like they do it in scheme. 19:34:02 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-199.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:34:09 bloop: The fact that there are scheme libraries implementing dynamic binding shows that it's a useful notion, and that it would be missed if it wasn't present. 19:34:50 Special variables are useful. They should not be abused, and should not be the default, but you can expect finding a couple of them in each library or program. 19:34:56 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-199.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:19 pjb: that seems like a common theme in the differences between the two: built-in/standardizations in CL and libraries in Scheme. is that about right? 19:35:23 Buganini [~buganini@2001:c08:2600::379] has joined #lisp 19:35:59 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-90.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:35:59 (i'm a noob if you can't tell) 19:36:16 Perhaps. More to the point, the question is what the language let the compilers optimize easily and systematically. 19:36:18 -!- Patagous [970fec36@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.15.236.54] has left #lisp 19:36:25 In scheme, they want the compilers to implement TCO. 19:36:37 In CL, we prefer to have optimized dynamic binding. 19:36:59 does anyone ever write anything that treats variables not bound lexically as keys into some (lexical but made invisible with macros most ofthe time) hash table / alist? 19:37:00 Patagous [970fec36@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.15.236.54] has joined #lisp 19:37:40 galdor: uh... see if (find-package :sb-cltl2) returns a package? 19:38:13 (because this is what the most Lisp-like language that I am intimimate with, Lua, does with the _ENV variable (which is initially the "global table")) 19:38:31 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-199.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:34 Bike: I had to add (require :sb-cltl2) to my .sbclrc 19:38:46 it works now, thank you anyway 19:38:54 Alright. 19:39:06 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-248-115.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:39:12 BountyX [~erhan@csu-137-148-237-237.csuohio.edu] has joined #lisp 19:39:58 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:40:19 -!- vsedach [~user@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:40:24 is there a Lisp that is curried by default? (obviously, it's easy to implement, but I'm wondering where it is idiomatic (besides Haskell or another non-Lisp)) 19:40:39 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 19:41:54 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 19:41:56 Qi? 19:42:43 bloop: easy? 19:43:32 -!- rumina [~rumina@88-148-206-252.bb.dnainternet.fi] has left #lisp 19:43:37 neat. thanks for the leads (currenty trying to decide what language I'm going to play with next and trying to get the lay of the land) 19:43:49 agumonkey [~agumonkey@64.158.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:46 Harag [~Harag@41.56.17.244] has joined #lisp 19:45:23 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.17.244] has quit [Client Quit] 19:48:09 xale: Qi looks pretty cool! Have you used it before? 19:48:44 vsedach [~user@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:49:09 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has joined #lisp 19:49:48 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:23 I have a program, which the user can run from the command-line and pass a form in as an option: foo-prog --my-match-criteria '(= field-name value)' 19:50:59 I need to be able to take the form passed in, transform it via a macro, and then include it in another form for execution 19:51:12 i'm mentally tying myself in knots at the moment... is this fair game for eval? 19:52:20 possibly 19:52:33 phrixos: Yes. User input is often eval'd, like in the Read Eval Print Loop. 19:53:07 -!- BountyX [~erhan@csu-137-148-237-237.csuohio.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:53:23 right, so i can take the option as a string, wrap it up in "(my-macro " ... ")", and then eval it 19:53:24 though personally I'd send it through (funcall (some-macro-that-returns-functions (compile (read-from-string *param*)))) 19:53:35 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:53:40 hmmm... swap compile and the macro 19:54:00 p_l|backup: why would you do that instead of eval? 19:54:01 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:54:19 in this particular instance the output of the macro is will become the :where clause of a clsql select 19:54:25 s/is// 19:54:58 -!- vsedach [~user@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 19:55:19 -!- _JusSx_ [akhenathon@adsl-ull-79-163.41-151.net24.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:55:33 Xach: well, it depends on the goal of the application... for CLSQL it wouldn't matter,I guess, but if it was a filter program... 19:56:33 p_l|backup: then what? 19:57:43 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:57:59 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:15 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:18 Xach: I'd design it so that the filter code is compiled into function before execution to get more throughput 19:58:41 enforcing compilation instead of evaluation 20:00:15 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:03:52 -!- Bike [~arm@69.166.35.237] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:04:40 -!- bloop [48053b8b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.5.59.139] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:06:48 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:11:59 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 20:12:43 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 20:13:20 (and exploiting the fact that with CL I have the compiler with me, fufufufufufufufu~) 20:19:16 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0108.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 20:23:42 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has joined #lisp 20:24:02 So currently I have https://gist.github.com/935389 20:24:31 the interesting bit is around line 85, and the output suggests that the eval is not seeing the macro generate-query when it evals its input 20:24:38 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0108.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:26:45 am i barking up the wrong tree? 20:26:46 phrixos: the value of *PACKAGE* at that time is not likely to be the galosh-export-adif package. 20:27:12 phrixos: You should make sure that it is bound to the right package at read-from-string time. 20:27:48 phrixos: Or you could construct the sexp to eval more sanely, like with `(generate-query ,(read-from-string ...)) or similar 20:28:15 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 20:28:35 sane is good 20:28:39 let me give that one a go 20:28:43 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@252.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:30:11 -!- agoldson [~abg3x@unaffiliated/apot] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:30:14 amb007 [~a_bakic@97.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:38 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:32:23 cesarbp_ [~chatzilla@189.247.100.75] has joined #lisp 20:32:23 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.100.75] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:24 -!- cesarbp_ is now known as cesarbp 20:33:58 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:34:50 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 20:35:18 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:36:27 awesome 20:36:45 a bit of fiddling with the macro itself and now it works 20:36:47 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC054DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:36:48 thanks Xach 20:37:24 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-174-244.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:38:38 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:41:20 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:41:57 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 20:42:03 if you compile the ECL C-code, do you still need the C compiler on the device for anything? 20:43:22 nope 20:43:48 that's good news 20:43:50 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 20:43:58 madnificent: you only need C compiler if you want to call CL:COMPILE 20:44:11 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:33 there's also some way supposedly to make deliverable C source 20:45:05 is there any (simple) guide available on how to compile code for arm? 20:45:51 madnificent: what device? 20:45:54 usually you just use the toolchain provided by your platform vendor 20:45:55 palm pre 20:45:56 and what OS 20:46:00 webos 20:46:19 i think ecl generated binaries link against libecl and libgmp. 20:46:29 that might be a problem. 20:46:29 does HP provide crosscompiler? 20:46:38 xale: it can link statically 20:46:52 p_l|backup: I don't know tbh. But you can make PDK apps, so if you supply all you need, I think it should work. 20:47:32 well, at worst, you can grab crosstool and build toolchain to run on webos 20:49:47 p_l|backup: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/PDK_on_Linux << guess a cross-compiler should be doable 20:51:25 BrianRice: you can still call eval, right? just not compile? 20:51:44 madnificent: that is what libecl provides 20:51:57 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:51:59 madnificent: yes 20:52:02 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 20:52:02 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 20:52:02 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:52:16 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:27 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has joined #lisp 20:52:33 ECL has bytecode engine and compiler available for purposes of EVAL 20:52:41 (it doesn't do straight evaluation) 20:54:01 codetonowhere [~Adium@78-105-3-181.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:54:13 good enough, the evaluation should be limited anyways 20:54:40 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 20:54:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 20:54:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:54:52 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has joined #lisp 20:56:10 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:58:53 -!- pnq [~nick@host-161.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:59:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:46 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@63.115.78.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:00:23 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:00:56 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:01:15 -!- CussingSailor [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/nanomachine] has left #lisp 21:02:14 Bike [~arm_of_th@71-38-154-233.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:48 codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:57 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:12 -!- alama [~alama@n138232.science.ru.nl] has quit [Quit: alama] 21:05:16 tacoNOM [~user@97.72.154.166] has joined #lisp 21:06:31 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:08:36 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 21:08:38 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:45 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 21:10:09 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 21:10:40 pirx [~pirx@195.225.69.9] has joined #lisp 21:10:43 -!- pirx is now known as pirxs 21:10:46 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:11:07 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:12:51 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 21:15:21 -!- sellout [~Adium@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:15:54 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-31-39.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:56 -!- am0c [~am0c@112.158.237.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:47 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-125-145.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:18:48 Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-32-125-145.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:51 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.100.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19:28 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:19:57 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:20:42 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-31-39.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:22:04 -!- rookievoice [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1] 21:23:29 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:24:01 mk2` [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:43 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:28:09 pnq [~nick@host-122.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 21:28:37 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:01 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:32 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 21:32:30 -!- aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Quit: aluve] 21:35:40 beach [~user@116.118.1.69] has joined #lisp 21:35:48 Good morning everyone! 21:36:20 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 21:36:33 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 21:37:27 hello beach 21:37:35 quite an egocentric statement :) 21:37:55 that'd be geocentric 21:38:30 hello beach :) 21:39:56 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16] has joined #lisp 21:40:47 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:41:24 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:42:06 bohanlon [~bohanlon@pool-108-20-68-105.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:18 hello 21:46:29 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:46:38 hello phadthai 21:47:33 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:35 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:48:31 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-092-076-072-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:14 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@161.82.8.239] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:50:24 bizarrefish [~ray@69.15.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:29 hi, all 21:50:46 hello bizarrefish 21:52:11 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52:38 I'm just getting into common lisp, and this little macro thing has me bamboozled. I thought I understood macros, but I just tried writing this: (defmacro getSymName (sym) (list 'symbol-name (list 'quote sym))) . It's supposed to be used thus: (getsymname X) => "X" . And it does that properly. But what I don't get is why the (list 'quote sym) doesn't evaluate to (quote valueofX). 21:53:13 Or is THAT where macros are different - when they're being expanded, names evaluate to themselves rather than their values? 21:53:17 hmm 21:53:53 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 21:54:39 bizarrefish: I can't see how (getsymname X) would evaluate to a character string. 21:55:29 bizarrefish: Also, using CamelCase is not very Lisp-y. 21:55:30 bizarrefish: (getsymname hello) => "HELLO" here 21:55:37 beach: Say i wrote it like this: (defmacro getsymname (sym) `(symbol-name (quote sym))) 21:55:52 beach: Oop, like this i mean (defmacro getsymname (sym) `(symbol-name (quote ,sym))) 21:56:03 Oh, sorry symbol-name. I can see now. 21:56:04 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:56:07 Too early in the morning. 21:56:09 Did you test it with (getsymname 'hello)? 21:56:25 or some quoted symbol, anyway 21:56:41 Bike: yeah, it gives 'hello is not a symbol. It definitely works. I just want to know how it works 21:56:53 Does evaluation work differently during macro-expansion time? 21:57:02 (macroexpand-1 '(getsymname 'hello)) => (SYMBOL-NAME ''HELLO) 21:57:06 bizarrefish: How is 'hello now a symbol? 21:57:08 *not 21:57:20 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:57:21 tritchey [~tritchey@161.82.8.239] has joined #lisp 21:57:23 drdo: It's the list (quote hello) 21:57:32 er 21:57:34 Bike: But it gets evaluated to the symbol hello 21:57:35 (quote 'hello), I think 21:57:46 So (quote (quote hello)) 21:57:51 what? 21:58:13 bizarrefish: Arguments are passed unevaluated to macros. 21:58:17 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:20 Here's the error: «The value 'HELLO is not of type SYMBOL.» Not «The value HELLO is not of type SYMBOL.» 21:58:21 bizarrefish: ... I see that I should have returned earlier and keep watch over you 21:59:11 bizarrefish: now, please be nice, grab Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation and reread about evaluation :> 21:59:31 Yeah, it's a cons. 21:59:34 ... don't jump too fast into macros, they eat people and spit littl remains 21:59:38 bizarrefish: macros are functions just like other functions. No difference. 22:00:05 Kind of glad I got a crash course in evaluation semantics by trying to implement a language with fexprs, now. 22:00:07 bizarrefish: you can write: (defun get-sym-name (sym) (list 'symbol-name (list 'quote sym))) 22:00:15 and (get-sym-name 'x) 22:00:29 bizarrefish: or you can write: (defmacro getsymname (sym) (list 'symbol-name (list 'quote sym))) 22:00:36 and (macroexpand '(get-sym-name x)) 22:00:44 and compare the result: identical. 22:01:06 and (macroexpand '(getsymname x)) ; it would be... 22:01:22 beach: I know they're unevaluated, but I thought the idea of a macro was that: it contains a form to generate a list which is then evaluated at runtime 22:01:39 bizarrefish: the only difference is that macros are expanded at compilation time, while functions are called at run-time. 22:01:41 and that 'generation' involves evaluation, right? 22:01:45 Yes. 22:01:54 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-14-193.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:01 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:02:03 Exapansion is done by executing the code just as usual. 22:02:03 Yes, it evaluated «sym» to «'hello», AKA «(quote hello)». 22:02:06 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-0-39.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:02:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:02:14 Yep. 22:02:20 OHHHH, shiz....I get ya now 22:02:26 p_l|backup: and yeah, you should lol 22:03:20 brain skipped there. i knew this crap this morning...too many late nights, lol.. 22:04:17 Thanks a load, guys :) 22:04:23 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-104-110.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:07:54 Vutral_ [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:14 francogrex [~user@109.130.66.83] has joined #lisp 22:08:54 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:01 Has anyone used ASDF to read a file with a modified READTABLE? I'm looking to have one file in my system written using readtable-case :PRESERVE, and I was thinking of a PERFORM method for that... 22:13:57 rpg: ironclad 22:14:11 fe[nl]ix: Thanks! I'll take a look now! 22:14:30 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 22:16:25 mon_key ping 22:17:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:17:13 -!- pirxs [~pirx@195.225.69.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:54 hoeppner [~chatzilla@c-76-23-118-31.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:18 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:22:06 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 22:22:38 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:22:40 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-167-177.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:24:19 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-254-32.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:24:45 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.66.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:57 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 22:26:07 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-174-244.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:28:27 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-169-52.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:29:20 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755eb0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:27 seangrov` [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:38 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 22:33:01 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:33:50 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 22:34:07 -!- agumonkey [~agumonkey@64.158.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:34:13 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:28 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 22:34:58 -!- attila_lendvai is now known as Guest38508 22:35:12 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:35:24 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:20 bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:23 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:39:53 jeti [~user@p54B471D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:43 -!- thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:43:09 thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 22:46:42 jeti` [~user@p548EB5B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:53 -!- jeti [~user@p54B471D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:51:37 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 22:54:25 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-119-17.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:54 francogrex [~user@109.130.66.83] has joined #lisp 22:58:02 danlentz: hello 22:58:12 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:55 hey mon_key 23:02:01 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.66.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:07 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 23:08:47 -!- phrixos [~clarkema@unaffiliated/phrixos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:09:05 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 23:09:07 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host146-179-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:09:16 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:09:44 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:10:17 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.242.72.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:00 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:11:14 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 23:11:34 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 23:12:19 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:45 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-80-218.w92-143.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:15:04 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-167-177.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:11 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:16:03 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69.196.171.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:16:33 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:16:46 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 23:16:46 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 23:16:46 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 23:21:34 HET2 [~diman@80.3.31.126] has joined #lisp 23:22:06 hey, i just realized 23:22:26 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:32 if i want i could make a new package, import another package into it, and then use that new package as an alias? 23:22:54 Landr: You have package nicknames 23:22:59 oh, right 23:23:11 i can specify them as well? 23:23:24 What do you mean? 23:23:39 i mean: i can make new nicknames for packages 23:23:48 or do i have to pick one from a list 23:24:10 (a list prepared by whoever wrote the package in the first place) 23:25:20 <|3b|> you can modify them at runtime, though some might call that bad style 23:27:03 *|3b|* would say it is OK for interactive use, moderately bad to add nicknames to other peoples packages in code intended for public use, and bad to remove them from others' packages 23:28:25 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:18 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 23:30:31 <|3b|> RENAME-PACKAGE is the function to use though (along with PACKAGE-NICKNAMES to get the old nicknames to add to), if you do feel like adding names 23:30:48 thanks 23:30:52 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:31:12 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 23:31:29 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 23:32:20 -!- jeti` [~user@p548EB5B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:33:50 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@161.82.8.239] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 23:36:05 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:37:58 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.132] has joined #lisp 23:38:22 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.207.179] has joined #lisp 23:39:38 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 23:39:52 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@161.82.11.254] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:41:07 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:45:33 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 23:46:28 -!- dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:48:58 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 23:49:23 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:49:27 must say that some others language are trying to be alike to CL style 23:51:28 -!- drdo [~user@93.108.205.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:12 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:52:20 I've heard imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. 23:52:30 can someone help me translate std::set/map/pair/vector/list into CFFI code ? 23:53:14 <|3b|> might be easier to just hide the c++ code behind C code if possible 23:53:58 I was going to use SWIG to make a wrapper for a C++ lib 23:54:12 <|3b|> or that if it works 23:54:21 *|3b|* has not tried swig on c++ stuff 23:54:33 <|3b|> (or C for that mater in a long time) 23:54:38 cbiscardi [~chris17in@99-63-201-183.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:48 but the impl of std:: is my only remain obstacle that I don't know how to overcome :( 23:55:55 <|3b|> well, you need to figure out if there is any standardization for name mangling etc on your platform, figure out how to make the c++ lib link in all the template expansions you want to use, etc 23:56:22 <|3b|> maybe figure out how to interact with c++ exceptions, memory management, destructors, ... 23:56:45 I was not C++ expert programmer :( 23:56:53 Gmind: seems simpler to wrap it all with pointers and extern "C". 23:57:03 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:57:49 pkhuong: yes, it's . SWIG do that stuff 4 me, I just don't know how to impl CFFI replace code for template of std::set/map/list/vector/pair 23:58:17 btw, pkhuong: where r u from ? 23:58:31 Gmind: the point of going with pointers and extern "C" is that there's no template left. 23:58:37 Gmind: C++ is a nightmare, run and never look back 23:59:23 <|3b|> apparently there is a %template command for swig that might help 23:59:43 psilord1 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-162-110.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp