00:00:18 yeah but zuse's machine got bombarded :P 00:00:27 or dismantled, not sure 00:00:54 ah yes, destroyed during the bombing of berlin 00:01:31 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-27-25.iburst.co.za] has left #lisp 00:03:16 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.13.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:03:17 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@173-164-128-209-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:10:09 Landr: in theory I'm going to have an article about the BESK machine, which was a Swedish version of the IAS machine. 00:10:23 -!- Tordek [~tordek@april-fools/yetanotherhardetest/tordek] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:10:30 Though I haven't heard much from the writer in a while. 00:12:26 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 00:15:57 Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #lisp 00:15:57 -!- Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has quit [Changing host] 00:15:57 Tordek [~tordek@april-fools/yetanotherhardetest/tordek] has joined #lisp 00:16:18 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@66.71.230.192] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 00:19:20 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 00:20:15 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.13.43] has joined #lisp 00:23:29 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:27:43 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:28:02 jlpeters [~james@216.231.34.6] has joined #lisp 00:28:38 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31:35 -!- jlpeters [~james@216.231.34.6] has quit [Client Quit] 00:31:44 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 00:34:43 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 00:34:56 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:39:19 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:40:52 JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 00:41:20 nikania [~nikania@c-24-16-137-194.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:29 Odin-: computer history is not only "un-researched" (most stuff is done by amateurs, it seems, and no concentrated corpus of knowledge seems to exist), but also a very educational subject for people working with modern stuff 00:43:45 -!- Oabl [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Oabl] 00:43:55 lianj: also, babbage was earlier :P 00:44:01 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:44:53 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:45:04 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:45:05 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:45:14 Hello, I am new to this room, I'm trying to write a function unzip that does this (unzip '(a b c d e f)) => (a c e) (b d f), can anyone help me? 00:45:27 lianj: mind you, I understand how one can get disgruntled with certain events... Poland lost quite a bit in computer technology due to certain idiotic choices at the top (someone didn't like the fact that our mid-tier S/360-compatibles were faster than hi-end models) 00:46:57 nikania: should be rather simple 00:47:26 gives me an error (mcdr: expects argument of type ; given ()) 00:47:43 I know it should be simple but I'm lost 00:47:55 nikania: I suspect you are running something other than common lisp. Clojure, perhaps? 00:47:59 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.29.226] has joined #lisp 00:48:06 Im using recursive programmming 00:48:20 Cloijure? 00:48:33 Im new to Lisp, started learning it last week 00:48:47 nikania: well, CL doesn't have immutable CONSes, at least not on semantic level 00:48:56 nor does it have "mcdr" function 00:49:12 It looks to me like some other dialect with immutable conses 00:49:26 <_3b> (loop for (a b) on list by #'cddr collect a into as collect b into bs finally (return (values as bs))) ? 00:49:32 p_l|backup: oho! It seems like Arc has an mcdr? 00:49:47 err 00:49:53 this channel is mostly about common lisp, for Clojure there's #clojure, elisp has #emacs and Scheme has #scheme. 00:50:02 ... Arc has... lots of hot air 00:50:05 http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/mpairs.html Scratch that. 00:50:25 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:50:26 ok, here is my code 00:50:29 http://pastebin.com/MY5XKLMw 00:50:58 I would really appreaciate it if someone could help me or point me to the right direction 00:51:15 <_3b> looks like scheme, so #scheme might be a 'right direction' 00:51:42 ok thanks 00:51:46 (though we would be happy to point you towards CL material :D) 00:52:04 -!- nikania [~nikania@c-24-16-137-194.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:53:27 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:55:31 does anyone understand run-program under windows, and how arguments are passed to subprograms? 00:56:10 Hmm. Doesn't Racket want to be identified as distinct from Scheme now? I assume there's a #racket? 00:56:24 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:56:46 Fare: hmmm... I don't know specifics related to implementation, only a little about process creation 00:57:28 -!- Tordek [~tordek@april-fools/yetanotherhardetest/tordek] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:58:09 important distinction is that there's no exec() or fork() (the former might exist in a way, but with different details) 00:58:25 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87f967.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 00:59:13 Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #lisp 00:59:16 -!- Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has quit [Changing host] 00:59:16 Tordek [~tordek@april-fools/yetanotherhardetest/tordek] has joined #lisp 01:00:12 the arguments are probably handled similar to unix, except that shell doesn't expand wildcards 01:03:40 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:08:35 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 01:09:44 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:13:45 -!- 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03:00:51 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 03:01:55 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 03:03:16 -!- spiaggia` is now known as spiaggia 03:04:23 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:04:39 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 03:06:03 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:06:10 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 03:07:37 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:12:24 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:18:26 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ovvkomzsjpdegtom] has joined #lisp 03:21:39 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:54 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-72.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:41 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:37:23 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.248.14] has joined #lisp 03:38:21 -!- troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:08 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:42:34 joe999 [~root@cpe-24-93-169-224.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:45:55 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:46:48 is there a way to kill clos instances without having a handle to them? 03:47:40 huh? 03:48:18 my cells program has corrupted cells clos instances, I need to get rid of them to make it work without reloading the lisp image 03:49:11 oh, ok. I don't know how cells stores instances; you could go find out and NIL out that variable/storage 03:50:02 thanks 04:01:37 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:03:59 froydnj: re, your tweet about Cryptonomicon, it's not obvious to me. I'm only vaguely aware of there being a nursery rhyme about a Bobby Shaftoe. 04:04:40 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-100-25.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:21 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 04:14:41 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1D7A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:15:45 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 04:15:56 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 04:15:57 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 04:15:57 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 04:18:43 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.13.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:01 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:20:05 xan_ [~xan@209.119.62.66] has joined #lisp 04:20:48 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 04:26:41 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-100-25.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:26:41 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:29:40 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 04:30:41 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-154.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:19 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:28 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 04:32:32 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 04:36:00 topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has joined #lisp 04:39:21 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-154.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 04:40:55 -!- rme [rme@5C8ED197.4D2D03BC.962E640F.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:40:56 -!- rme [~rme@209.117.33.69] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:43:19 stanrifkin [~rifkin@pD954C1E0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:45:39 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:45:51 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.210.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-154.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:27 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:27 -!- loke [~elias@bb119-74-213-61.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:01:43 loke [~elias@bb121-6-7-96.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 05:06:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@209.119.62.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:08:46 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:42 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:13:43 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:19 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:20:11 -!- stanrifkin [~rifkin@pD954C1E0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 05:21:29 -!- Spion__ [~spion@77.29.248.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:23:59 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:24:37 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 05:28:45 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:30:53 alesan [~alesan@12.167.100.194] has joined #lisp 05:31:04 hi 05:31:09 I used to be very good in scheme 05:31:15 about 15-20 years ago 05:31:34 now I forgot almost everything BUT I know lisp is the future 05:31:48 and the past 05:31:54 what would you suggest to catch up? Last time I used it it was on a 286 05:32:01 Have you had your head checked? 05:32:10 minion: please tell alesan about pcl 05:32:12 Knowing things like that might be a sign of delusion. 05:32:56 something like a website or a recent, not too verbose, book 05:33:09 hmm 05:33:15 alesan: http://gigamonkeys.com/book 05:34:10 by the way, are scheme and lisp very different? I have never used common lisp 05:34:18 different enough. 05:34:33 in terms of syntax, or in expressivity? 05:35:22 spiaggia` [~user@113.161.72.9] has joined #lisp 05:36:11 -!- spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:36:47 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 05:37:03 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:37:05 in terms of being a pretty different language 05:37:39 would you be able to make any ... analogy? 05:37:56 I like saying it's like comparing C to Java 05:38:21 in the meanwhile, I'me reading the book you suggested... I've found the printed version for 30 bucks 05:38:31 so you imply one is much more advanced than the other? 05:38:34 alesan: CL has more line-noise. 05:39:34 alesan: They're different languages with different philosophies. The revised reports on Scheme have been updated more recently than the CL spec (which has never really been updated), but that's not necessarily a good thing :) 05:39:36 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:40:27 Probably the biggest difference is that you have separate contexts for function application and variable evaluation. 05:40:30 Joreji [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 05:40:41 e.g., (list list) has a different meaning in CL and in scheme. 05:40:55 ok 05:41:22 but, only as a hobby for now, if I had to (re)learn one... your suggestion would be...? 05:42:02 I like Common Lisp, myself, and I get a lot done with it. 05:42:31 and you are in the Common Lisp channel, so expect a bias. 05:42:39 give or take some trolls. 05:43:00 yeah ok ;) 05:43:37 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA244C5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:44:00 do you guys have an idea - I know this is a funny question - what is the lisp vs scheme "marker share" again sorry for the stupid question 05:44:55 Well, it's bugger all vs. bugger all. 05:45:09 Why do you care? 05:45:19 I do not understand that idiom 05:45:50 alesan: neither language is particularly popular :) 05:45:55 what is the bugatti vs lambordgini "market share"? 05:46:03 Caring just one of those things that people do. 05:46:10 cmm: I like that! 05:46:46 lamborghini 05:46:52 sykopomp: yeah, I realize the unintentional perceived quality connotatiotions :) 05:47:20 I think there was a "popular" program that made use of scheme internally... 05:47:25 alesan: right 05:47:26 but I do not recall 05:47:58 alesan: if you want popularity, maybe you want to go with Emacs Lisp, though. 05:48:05 I hear they're getting lexical scoping! 05:48:07 could have been Gimp, if you squint enough so that Gimp is popular and SIOD is scheme 05:48:09 I'm a vi kind of person... 05:48:28 ~dict squint 05:48:32 Hmm. Maybe you'd be interested in Javascript. 05:49:34 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:56:51 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xkljvdhqomdbewcm] has joined #lisp 05:56:51 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xkljvdhqomdbewcm] has quit [Changing host] 05:56:51 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:02:11 kevin01123 [~user@97-91-232-86.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:06:04 bye! 06:06:07 -!- alesan [~alesan@12.167.100.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:06:54 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:07:12 I'm trying to play around with scheme using DrRacket. However, it appears the atom? function is undefined. My language is R5RS. 06:07:55 Krystof [~csr21@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:08:28 kevin01123: try #scheme 06:09:22 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-7.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:12:36 mfranc [~mfranc@nat/redhat/x-lrpcsajvdmtfjqvc] has joined #lisp 06:13:42 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:18:48 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:18:48 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:18:48 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:27:27 -!- Krystof [~csr21@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:58 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-7.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:36:16 Areil [~Areil@113.172.55.87] has joined #lisp 06:37:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:37:04 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:37:25 Liera [~user@113.172.55.87] has joined #lisp 06:38:42 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has joined #lisp 06:39:46 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-024-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:55 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 06:40:56 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.203.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:41:23 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 06:41:24 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 06:41:24 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 06:41:26 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 06:41:56 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-203-181.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:36 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-092-076-095-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:17 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:52:20 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-eawlllmwtzbsjuwn] has joined #lisp 06:52:30 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:53:59 what would be the best way to have two versions of sbcl on my machine? I need to test one thing with a very specific version but I still want to keep latest version for my own projects 06:54:55 Joreji [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 06:56:02 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:36 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:56:46 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 06:59:06 splittist [~splittist@67-107.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:59:13 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:02:55 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:51 -!- splittist [~splittist@67-107.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 07:04:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:09:49 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-205.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:10:50 splittist [~splittist@67-107.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:10:58 morning 07:11:43 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@180.184.34.163] has joined #lisp 07:12:05 Joreji [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:13:41 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 07:13:45 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:15:20 freiksenet: install them in different directories. 07:15:45 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 07:17:48 freiksenet: you can just install SBCL in some other location, use full path (or a $PATH with your specific sbcl first) when you invoke it, more on bootstrapping SBCL in a given location at: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/9b74c6867ae07471, if you want different libraries for the two you have to make sure asdf are set up differently or use quicklisp installed in two different locations 07:18:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:19:41 Joreji [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:20:09 nefo_ [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 07:21:06 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:54 slash_ [~unknown@pD955F0F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:00 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:22:10 good morning 07:25:48 -!- kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:26:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:26:31 kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has joined #lisp 07:26:49 -!- Liera [~user@113.172.55.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27:06 Liera [~user@113.172.55.87] has joined #lisp 07:27:08 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:27:37 -!- mdavadriansmith [~mdavadria@75-150-13-105-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 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Joreji [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:42:21 *fgump* is away: I'm busy 07:46:23 -!- topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:51:21 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:51:35 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:51:39 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:52:10 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:54:30 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7D769.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:55:31 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-024-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:56:07 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-103-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:59:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:00:11 -!- insomniaSalt 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-!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:20:44 timchen119 [tim@163.16.211.21] has joined #lisp 09:21:05 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755d31.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:14 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:23:25 kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-ghmcpwtzhrnvtmpy] has joined #lisp 09:25:15 -!- timchen119 [tim@163.16.211.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:26:28 timchen1` [tim@163.16.211.21] has joined #lisp 09:26:46 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:30:50 -!- kdas_ is now known as kushal 09:30:59 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-ghmcpwtzhrnvtmpy] has quit [Changing host] 09:30:59 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:32:20 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:32:40 micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:11 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:33:18 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 09:34:53 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:37:40 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37:43 kiuma_ [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:39:20 -!- benny` is now known as benny 09:42:23 -!- JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Quit: Out] 09:43:17 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-12-213.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 09:48:11 -!- timchen1` [tim@163.16.211.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:52:19 timchen1` [tim@163.16.211.21] has joined #lisp 09:55:06 I can't submit a paste. Blank screen appears after submit ? 09:55:12 koivton [Derek@cs181222096.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:55:48 it's been created 09:55:55 go back to the lisppaste start page 09:56:00 it will show up in the paste list 09:57:21 I pasted it but nothing 09:58:18 http://paste.lisp.org/display/121273 10:00:59 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-166-142.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:01:03 Ok. If someone knows ht-simple-ajax, can you look at http://paste.lisp.org/+2LKP 10:03:01 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 10:05:54 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 10:06:02 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-114.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:45 Xach: is it safe to move ~/quicklisp whereever I want if I modify the .sbclrc bits accordingly? 10:09:24 I wonder if quicklisp-quickstart:install should take a target directory? (perhaps it already does) 10:09:44 tcr1: it does, via :path 10:09:49 tcr1: and yes, it's safe to move 10:10:17 Should mention it in the Installation dribble :-) 10:10:22 yeah 10:10:29 there's also a :proxy option 10:10:30 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955E4E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:10:44 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 10:10:50 -!- delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:10:53 Is there an ajax framework that works with Hunchentoot and has its own mailing list ? 10:11:47 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/121274 10:14:18 o that sbcl 10:14:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 10:16:14 If you know a nice way to fix it without #+/#-, I'm all ears 10:17:13 slime-helper.el does not set slime-inferior-lisp? 10:18:34 I mean inferior-lisp-program 10:20:58 Joreji [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:22:14 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has left #lisp 10:23:39 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:24:36 We're trying to optimize some calculations here: there's a slot defined as single float (and with a single-float value), however when I try to add that value to another single float I get: http://paste.lisp.org/display/121275 10:25:14 I don't really understand the compiler warnings here. 10:26:17 What are other ajax frameworks besides cl-ajax and ht-simple-ajax ? 10:29:06 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.nbiserv.com] has joined #lisp 10:29:41 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:32:30 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 10:34:55 antozska: as a genuine question, should that be single-float or 'single-float as the :type specifier? 10:35:32 splittist: Not sure, maybe there'a problem there. 10:36:05 splittist: the compiler didn't complain about that, though. 10:36:32 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-12-213.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 10:36:38 resub [~resub@CPE-58-175-148-62.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:36:51 antoszka: I suspect sbcl doesn't take advantage of the :type information in slot definitions 10:37:00 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:37:22 splittist: it did for me but only when i put debug at 3 (let me recheck) 10:38:30 aerique: How did it take advantage of it? Just typechecking when you set the slot? 10:38:36 splittist: In that case how would you suggest I got about optimizing that arithmetic code? 10:38:51 antozska: but if you tell the compiler that (kat obiekt) is a single-float where you are doing the arithmetic it might work. 10:39:06 alright, i had to "(declaim (optimize (safety 3)))" 10:39:54 sellout: yes 10:40:03 antoszka: (the single-float (kat obiekt)) 10:40:12 sellout: Right, thanks. 10:41:18 antoska: tell us how it turns out (: 10:41:36 Yep. 10:42:46 -!- resub [~resub@CPE-58-175-148-62.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:44:09 That helped for that particular case. 10:44:11 longfin_ [~longfin@49.58.29.172] has joined #lisp 10:44:25 Does that mean sbcl really does ignore the type-specifier slot? 10:44:42 antoszka: have you tried: "(declaim (optimize (safety 3)))"? 10:44:44 Or is that information lost in the construction of the accessor function? 10:44:53 aerique: Ah, non. 10:45:26 antoszka: I think the problem is that the slot information is only available at runtime, so the compiler can't use it. 10:45:41 OK. 10:46:24 antoszka: It doesn't know that OBIEKT is an instance of CZOLG ahead of time. 10:46:48 Can you hint that somehow to the compiler? 10:47:38 antoszka: without opining whether this would be a good idea, you could try writing a WITH-TYPED-ACCESSORS macro... 10:48:03 Well, even if you could, it doesn't know that the definition of KAT at that point is the one from that class def  everything is too dynamic to be able to make that guess. 10:48:04 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:48:44 (with-typed-accessors (kat kat single-float) obiekt ...) 10:48:45 I think we'll have to change that code to structures, anyway, there's apparently quite a lot of clos overhead. 10:49:01 So this might not be as important in the future. 10:49:11 antoszka: This is where Craig Zilles ELS talk comes into play :) 10:49:20 sellout: yep :) 10:50:42 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@49.58.29.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:20 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 10:53:08 sellout: btw, do you know whether stuff from ELS (or is will be) avaliable somewhere? 10:53:19 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-154.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 10:54:22 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.83] has joined #lisp 10:54:53 udzinari: Maybe you could email Didier Verna and ask for a copy of the proceedings  I don't think there's any video (but I'm not positive of that). 10:55:05 delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has joined #lisp 10:55:47 Are the papers available anywhere? 10:57:03 sellout: screw video! as for email.. try is worth a try, thanks. 10:58:56 flip214: They're in the proceedings. 10:59:39 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e197-184.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:59:54 It's a pity that there seems to be a million Kanban your Agile Scrum the Entarch Way! videos but not much with a bit more meat. Or I'm looking in the wrong place. Or just fussy. 11:00:08 -!- rbancroft [~rumble@S0106000024ccf2b4.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:00:11 resub [~resub@CPE-58-175-148-62.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:00:48 splittist: videos are waste of time anyway 11:01:20 It depends what you do while they are on one of your screens. 11:01:56 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e197-184.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Client Quit] 11:02:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:03:19 *udzinari* has only one physical screen and when there is a video on it he watches. 11:03:24 what else? 11:04:47 sellout: does that mean they're not available for the public? 11:05:05 flip214: I don't know if they are. 11:05:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:05:47 You guys should ask Didier to put them on the Web site :) 11:06:10 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:06:19 But I don't know if there are copyright issues with that re: the authors. 11:06:29 flip214: welcome to cl congerence coverage hell! if only logs could speak :D 11:06:39 s/congerence/conference/ 11:08:30 killall -9 ACM :/ 11:11:48 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:13:53 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:15:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:16:01 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:17:16 how does a lisp detect attempts to return-from a block that already returned normally? 11:18:35 longfin_ [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 11:18:35 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:12 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:29 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 11:23:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:08 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 11:24:15 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 11:24:15 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:24:22 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 11:26:45 xale: It's prohibited in Common Lisp 11:27:36 yes. 11:28:41 Oh you asked for how it detects 11:29:22 it might inserts some marker at that address and look for that marker and if it's not there or another one, signal an error 11:29:25 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:29:37 Does it need to? 11:30:00 no. 11:30:01 My impression was that it's free to make the block go away once it returns. 11:30:41 Hence, no need to detect an attempt to return from it; it's simply not possible to maintain a reference that works. 11:31:23 -!- akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:32 I'd call it unlispy if an implementation wouldn't check in non-unsafe code 11:32:15 Yuuhi [benni@p5483DD7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:42 Yeah, but the check might simply consist of "does this block exist? no? hm, something's up" ... which would also cover more cases than just attempting to return from a block that's already returned... 11:32:51 *Odin-* shrugs. 11:32:57 Never messed around with it, to be honest. 11:33:49 how can a block not exist? does it mean there is a stack of active blocks? 11:34:10 Another quesion: would anyone be willing to share some sample code how to use the (with-workers) macro from the femlisp multiprocessing package? The docstring is kinda useless and there's isn't much else. Other suggestions for parallelizing independent iteration on sbcl are welcome, too. 11:34:29 (on a multicore system) 11:36:25 xale: I think you can check at compile-time 11:36:29 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 11:36:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:37:02 (defun foo () #'(lambda () (return-from foo 42)) 11:37:07 (funcall (foo)) 11:37:26 yes, you can't check for this. 11:37:35 for what? 11:37:45 oh 11:38:02 well why not? 11:38:20 what makes it impossible for you to check for that? 11:38:24 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:39:54 consider something like this: (block foo (bar (lambda () (return-from foo)))) 11:39:54 rme_ [~rme@209.117.33.69] has joined #lisp 11:40:04 you cannot know what 'bar' is going to do with that closure. 11:40:59 why does that matter? 11:41:11 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 11:41:46 xale: are you confusing block/return-from with catch/throw? 11:42:44 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:22 hopefully not. 11:44:50 maybe i'm overlooking something, but i don't see a problem with the examples you provided 11:46:24 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:48:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:49 then look closer 11:49:03 at the one I provided at least 11:49:06 blocks have lexical scope, but a dynamic extend. So while their dynamic extent is life, you can return from them. But once you've returned from them, their dynamic extend is dead, so you cannot. 11:49:17 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 11:50:02 yes, but how do you know when the dynamic extend of a block ended? 11:52:04 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-114.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:52:41 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:54:00 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:54:59 xale: usually, dynamic stuff occur on the stack. 11:55:39 yes, there is an obvious idea to go up the stack and see if the block is installed somewhere. 11:55:56 ... how else would you be returning from a block? 11:55:57 but that makes it about as efficient as catch/throw. 11:55:59 But then you wouldn't want to find another occurence of the same block... 11:56:39 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ovvkomzsjpdegtom] has left #lisp 11:58:13 So I see two ways to do it: allocate an object on the heap to store the life of the block, and have the lexical references to the block instancianted in that dynamic extend refer to that object. When you exit, you may reset it, and the references may check it. Or have the lexical references install a back pointer in the block stack-frame, so that when the block exits, the references may be disabled. 12:00:02 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:06 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 12:00:48 xale: famously, you can emulate catch/throw with block/return-from and vice versa 12:01:29 That said, 5.2 just says the consequences are undefined if you try to transfer control to an exit point whose dynamic extent has ended, so an implementation may do anything, it doesn't need to try to check it. 12:06:03 blocks must be significantly more efficient than catch/throw, because you should be able to know at compile time exactly where you are going to return. 12:07:21 In general, yes. You can do something special for special cases such as (block foo (bar (lambda () (return-from foo)))) 12:10:56 How can I tell, whether a ports installed SBCL is 64-bit version? *features* has x86-64, but I guess that just means the processor type I have 12:11:19 peterhil`: q&d: most-positive-fixnum 12:11:27 Oh, yes. Thanks 12:11:35 peterhil`: that guess is wrong; the features indicate how SBCL was built 12:12:27 MACHINE-TYPE (&co) would tell about the actual hardware 12:12:44 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87f967.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:15 Ok. So, If I want to build a 64-bit version, I enable x86-64 in the build customization file's lambda? 12:13:33 Or? 12:13:45 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-235-180.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:13:53 peterhil`: if you have a 64 bit CPU, the default build is 64 bit. If you want to force 32 bit anyway, you can set SBCL_ARCH. 12:14:01 Ok, good. Thanks 12:15:48 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:17:22 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-150-39.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:22:13 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-51-251.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:47 -!- delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:25:26 longfin [~longfin@49.58.29.172] has joined #lisp 12:25:46 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.33.152.39] has joined #lisp 12:27:06 TeMPOraL [~user@static-195-114-183-51.devs.futuro.pl] has joined #lisp 12:27:46 yay mixalot updates 12:27:49 welcome back, hefner! 12:28:55 -!- Krystof [~csr21@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:30:30 astoon [~astoon@nat121-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has joined #lisp 12:35:03 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:38:05 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@static-195-114-183-51.devs.futuro.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:38:23 -!- astoon [~astoon@nat121-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:38:34 TeMPOraL [~user@static-195-114-183-51.devs.futuro.pl] has joined #lisp 12:39:07 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 12:40:07 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:40:24 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 12:40:33 on the other hand implementing catch/throw on top of the blocks does not sound bad at all. (unlike the other way around) 12:40:48 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 12:41:27 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:47 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:00 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 12:45:11 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:46:37 wonbyte [~wonbyte@dynamic-acs-24-144-212-251.zoominternet.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:58 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 12:47:01 LiamH [~none@132.250.138.103] has joined #lisp 12:47:26 -!- wonbyte [~wonbyte@dynamic-acs-24-144-212-251.zoominternet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:47:28 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:28 Oabl [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:33 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:56 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 12:50:14 -!- naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.nbiserv.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 12:51:53 pjb: actually, i just realised that you still might want to have some kind of a stack for blocks because of unwind-protect. 12:52:45 Xach: thanks. 12:53:00 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has left #lisp 12:53:39 xale: Check out lisp in small pieces 12:53:59 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-95-45.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 12:54:57 delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has joined #lisp 12:57:12 hi 12:57:35 please I need to know if matrix could be dynamically dimensioned in clem :) 12:57:37 thanks 12:59:41 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 12:59:48 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e198-165.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 13:00:49 -!- longfin [~longfin@49.58.29.172] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:01:39 -!- delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:01:49 longfin [~longfin@175.216.34.245] has joined #lisp 13:02:06 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 13:02:22 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 13:03:16 -!- longfin [~longfin@175.216.34.245] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:41 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-51-251.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:04:15 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-138-218.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:28 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:05:56 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 13:06:52 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:08:24 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-235-180.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:09:07 codelurker [~codelurke@66.71.230.192] has joined #lisp 13:13:58 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:06 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 13:15:14 -!- rme_ [~rme@209.117.33.69] has quit [Quit: rme_] 13:15:18 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:17:35 -!- jweiss_ [~user@cpe-174-106-083-113.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:44 jweiss_ [~user@cpe-174-106-083-113.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:16 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:19:46 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87f967.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:47 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-eawlllmwtzbsjuwn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:38 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87f967.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:13 hefner: Cool thing about mixalot updates. What's going to be new in mixalot? 13:29:03 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:29:51 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.114.154] has joined #lisp 13:31:21 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:32:26 aoh [~aki@85.23.168.123] has joined #lisp 13:33:21 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-101-219.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:53 should I expect bordeaux-threads:thread-alive-p to be an expensive operation? 13:34:01 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.114.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:34:01 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 13:34:23 I can't estimate whether or not it would interrupt anything, I have no clue. 13:35:22 *madnificent* should use thread-join but he is still wondering about it 13:40:03 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:41:07 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 13:42:26 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.83.244] has joined #lisp 13:42:49 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:42:56 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:42:58 peterhil`: well, I merged the vorbis/FLAC branch, so it appears to play those now, and there's a libsoundfile binding in need of finishing for reading/writing WAV and two dozen other random file formats 13:43:09 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-101-219.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 13:43:41 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.101.219] has joined #lisp 13:44:20 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.101.219] has quit [Client Quit] 13:44:56 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.101.219] has joined #lisp 13:47:51 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:49:01 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.101.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:51:23 myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:51:43 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:52:22 Woo! TIL how to convert an (unsigned-byte 8) to a bit vector :) 13:53:03 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:54:18 (read-from-string (format nil "#*~2R" x)) 13:54:26 boo 13:55:46 tcr1: That is not so exciting. 13:56:08 hefner: Ok, I'll definitely test the new version next time I have some spare time to fiddle with my sound synthesis project's port form Python to Common Lisp. 13:57:42 Btw, is libsoundfile the same thing as libsndfile? 13:57:49 er, yeah, that's what I meant. 13:57:56 peterhil`: sounds cool, is your project on the web anywhere? 13:58:43 talmai [~talmai@84-255-245-231.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:48 tcr: Xach: Any possible improvements for this: http://paste.lisp.org/+2LKZ 13:59:00 Not yet, except some short demo sounds, pictures and couple of animations to represent the different way I show the sound signal. But the whole project is about 1/5th of any kind of finished state... 13:59:59 hello. can i ask for a link that would explain the famous Siivola quote about schemers' and lispniks' view of Buddha 14:00:21 I need some reorganization or polishing of the "API" to be more functional and start make some kind of UI, preferably a GUI to make something really demoable and playable... 14:00:44 peterhil`: sounds like fun. 14:01:14 But if you are interested, here the link: http://peter.vasb.fi/aanet/2010_Python_Resonance/ 14:01:24 talmai: Print out the specification of scheme and the one of common lisp 14:01:33 put them next to each other 14:01:51 Joreji [~thomas@82-128.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:02:13 No code, just media samples... I've been thinking of open-sourcing the project, but it's not even that far that other people would "get" what I'm aiming to do. 14:03:13 tcr1: RS, RxRS (1<= x <6), R6RS? :) 14:04:07 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-dwgcnabofhtzpata] has joined #lisp 14:04:26 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755d31.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:42 tcr1, thanks 14:05:32 Basically, I'm making an additive synthesis engine, trying to keep the parameter count controllable and finally make a really sleek GUI, that enables direct mouse control over curves for making the "instruments". Kind of like "Photoshop for sound". 14:06:01 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:49 mon_key: I annotated with a couple ideas. 14:06:52 peterhil`: ah, very cool. I've always been fascinated by additive synthesis, but haven't played with it very much. 14:07:03 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:08:10 I have quit fast and accurate sine-wave oscillator design, which should even leave time to handle for realtime effects and GUI 14:09:01 And I have been experimenting with using different shapes as the basic oscillator, some FM-like experiments and new ways to generatoe noise like sounds. 14:09:13 (although I did hack up something that built random spectra, with scripted sweeps of the fundamental, from which I mined a few neat sound effects for Laser Spigot and my more serious, sadly neglected game) 14:09:22 Xach: THANKS! 14:09:46 But as it is now, the project is still just separate pieces of my vision of what it will be. If I'd onlky have more time for this... :-) 14:11:05 I haven't even but just started to write event timings. And the envelpoes are still just simple exponential curves. 14:11:22 I wich to use piecewise clothoids or splines later. 14:11:24 Q: I have a big dataset of (human) beheavures in a system with set number of rules, are there some good algorithms too look for patterns? 14:11:57 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-203-181.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:12:41 Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:50 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:01 Frequency sweeps always sound cool. :-) 14:14:35 -!- talmai [~talmai@84-255-245-231.static.t-2.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:14:38 I want to make the API such, that everything is described in physical units, and is "rendered" at some sample rate just when needed. 14:15:50 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@180.184.34.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:16:22 That will accomodate interesting effects with modulating time. And that is actually precisely the reason I found Lisp in the first place, because I was frustrated handling the different arguments with Python and thought generic functions or at least more natural functional style of Lisp would help. 14:18:15 Or actually rendered at specific sample times, which can be an output of some function. The simplest case being constant sampling rate. 14:19:40 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:21:31 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 14:22:19 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:22:25 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has joined #lisp 14:24:05 *peterhil`* tries to stay more on topic of Lisp 14:24:39 And eat something, that my English doesn't suck so badly... :-) 14:27:31 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:46 -!- kiuma_ is now known as kiuma 14:29:34 sonnym1 [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:29:37 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 14:29:37 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:29:44 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:33:14 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:07 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:08 udzinari: Maybe using some clustering algorithm that works by assigning the behaviour samples a point in N-dimensional vector space based on the rule outcomes as coordinates axes and then searching the space for close points? 14:36:18 KD trees are often used as a data structure for the proximity search. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kd-tree 14:36:32 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:36:51 But I'm not an definitely not an expert on the subject. Just happened to read something about data clustering. 14:36:59 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:37:07 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:10 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:37:39 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@180.184.33.204] has joined #lisp 14:37:53 antgreen [~user@12.232.236.137] has joined #lisp 14:39:36 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87f967.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 14:40:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 14:40:57 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:41:51 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 14:42:45 -!- mfranc [~mfranc@nat/redhat/x-lrpcsajvdmtfjqvc] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:43:01 pigdude [~tallen@gateway1.atlantic-media.us] has joined #lisp 14:44:52 udzinari: you're literally searching for a decision tree? 14:45:46 peterhil`: thanks, will read up on that. 14:46:27 madnificent: something like that 14:46:48 there are a lot of algorithms for that 14:46:55 *madnificent* tries to remember the one that actually works most of the time 14:47:01 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:11 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-240-213-15.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:11 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-240-213-15.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:48:11 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 14:49:07 madnificent: I need to identify decision patterns, rank them according to overall success rate, and ideally link them to some other data. 14:49:15 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 14:49:39 udzinari: well I can explain you what the algorithm does, and I think it was explained by Quinlan, but I can't figure out the name anymore 14:50:05 what it basically does is try to find the pattern by splitting a group in two groups, a positive and a negative group, based on a large portion of your data-set (say 4/5th) 14:50:19 you keep adding rules until you've classified everything 14:50:20 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:50:25 at that point you have overfitted, clearly 14:50:28 I an judge whether any specific single action was sucessfully performed or not, but success is the overall result and is binary 1/0 14:50:35 s/an/can/ 14:51:11 so you use the 1/5 of your dataset which is unused so far, to prune the tree from the bottom up, thus removing most rules that resulted in overfitting 14:51:27 that's a basic short-sighted way of doing it, and it yields fairly good results 14:51:28 why would one learn lisp or scheme (which is better to learn first, in particular)? 14:52:01 pigdude: lisp, because it's the last language you'll ever learn (says the former language geek) 14:52:24 udzinari: I'm really wondering what the name of the bloody thing was 14:52:35 madnificent: why would you learn lisp before scheme? it seems like lisp is a superset of scheme? 14:53:03 udzinari: you could search for version spaces... that might result into something 14:53:30 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:30 pig: It doesn't matter which you learn first. 14:53:43 pig: Neither is a superset of the other. 14:53:52 udzinari: either case, trees are the only system I know that will give you human-interpretable results. If you don't need the rules to be interpretable, you should probably look at support vector machines. 14:54:25 Zhivago: how do they differ? that should have been my original question... 14:54:55 pigdude: but as you're on #lisp, we'll say that Common Lisp is the best choice :) I'm guessing #scheme will tell something else and #haskell will probably advise you to learn neither. As will #ruby, #python, #perl, ... :) 14:55:19 pigdude: lisp seems to be the more practically applicable one, scheme is cleaner theoretically 14:55:29 scheme is also much more fragmented 14:55:47 so if i'm writing lisp, i can feel comfortable if my code runs in SBCL? 14:55:54 p_l|backup: an argument I never heard one say to new lispers and it's so damn relevant.... 14:55:56 whereas scheme as many popular interpreters/compilers? 14:56:27 madnificent: will do. ty 14:56:49 pigdude: common lisp has a standard, the compilers follow that standard... that helps 14:57:07 pigdude: scheme has many implementations, that wildly differ, and suffers from lacking certain important stuff standardized, so there's little chance that a complex application written on one implementation will run on another 14:58:15 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:16 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:16 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has joined #lisp 14:58:48 madnificent: do ping me please, if you remmember the name though :D 14:59:11 i wonder then why one would prefer scheme to lisp. scheme sounds entirely impracticle 14:59:14 *ical 14:59:31 of course i will ask them for their side of the story :) 14:59:32 while CL has a well supported language standard (ANSI CL), a not-exactly-supported-but-basically-available standard (AMOP - you can bridge differences between implementations with closer-mop), and many important things are bridged by widely available portability libraries (bordeaux-threads, CFFI, usocket/IOlib, etc.) 14:59:33 udzinari: I doubt it'll come back in my head, but the algorithm is basically that... If I do, I will :) 14:59:39 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:59:43 udzinari: and chatlogs are there for finding names ^_^ 14:59:44 On the Lisp side, there is the official language reference, which consist of features. Most implementations try to cover a common subset, but not every implementation does all the features. If I have understood correctly. On Common Lisp, it usually fairly trivial to account for implementation differences. And most code just is portable. 15:00:19 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 15:00:19 Er, I meant "On the Scheme side.... 15:00:20 pigdude: some implementations of Scheme provide a rather good environment. It's just incompatible with another implementation following the same standard, to the point of being basically unportable 15:00:23 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-235-180.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:00:34 pig: Scheme has a number of useful points -- first class continuations, hygenic macros, etc. 15:00:43 It's also small and fairly neat. 15:00:49 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:00:54 So it has appeal to people who value those kinds of things. 15:01:03 brb 15:01:30 cpc26 [~cpc26@66.87.2.184] has joined #lisp 15:02:26 rme [~rme@63.115.78.49] has joined #lisp 15:03:40 pigdude: the difference is some people like to stick to principles and some like to get the job done :) 15:03:45 Scheme supports and courages more functional style (which first class continuations assist). Some schemes have an object system's modeled after Common Lisps CLOS. But Common Lisp maybe more easily admits different programming paradigms. And the standard library is huge. 15:03:58 udzinari: Well said. :-) 15:05:59 -!- rme [rme@1876D00D.A9376BFA.383E7D0.IP] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 15:06:17 rme_ [~rme@63.115.78.49] has joined #lisp 15:06:18 -!- rme [~rme@63.115.78.49] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:18 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 15:07:56 Although, note that both scheme and CL are procedural. 15:08:07 Although, some Scheme compilers compile to C code, and have easy bridges to call C functions and libraries, which I guess helps if you have to use C, or deliver small binaries. But maybe that's not the first thing to consider when thinking which one to learn first. I recommend you read Practical Common Lisp AND watch the Abelman & Sussman SICP lectures (which use Scheme) 15:08:08 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.67] has joined #lisp 15:08:18 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.67] has quit [Changing host] 15:08:18 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 15:09:34 on the other hand, ECL compiles to CL to C code and makes it easy to call C functions and libraries. 15:09:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:10:01 Just learn whichever you want first -- the fundamental understanding transfers well. 15:10:26 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:10:33 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.123] has joined #lisp 15:11:03 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:12:17 udzinari: i see :) 15:12:26 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:12:26 yea, i know so many languages 15:12:36 so id rather learn scheme OR lisp than both 15:12:44 but i imagine knowledge of one will make the other easy to pick up 15:13:19 pigdude: I'd advise CL. 15:13:36 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:13:42 -!- rme [rme@1876D00D.A9376BFA.383E7D0.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 15:13:42 -!- rme [~rme@63.115.78.49] has quit [Quit: rme] 15:14:07 pigdude: http://www.cliki.net/Getting%20Started 15:14:14 pigdude: Yes, the syntactial differences are not very many. 15:14:47 pholasek [~pholasek_@2001:67c:1220:c1b0:21e:37ff:fecb:baa0] has joined #lisp 15:16:28 yea, because i tend to do more practical than theoritical, i think this makes sense 15:17:15 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 15:19:05 pigdude: you will find #lisp a very helpful place as long as you listen carefully to the advice that's given, and don't fall into the trap of trying to draw too many analogies from other languages. Refraining from 'this aspect of lisp suxorz' until you've earned the right will be appreciated (: 15:19:44 splittist: that was preemptive :^) 15:20:19 splittist: perhaps you should add that tothe Getting Started cliki page. Mentionning also that some lispers are older than the newbie's parent may help too :-) 15:20:50 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:21:08 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:14 Everyone on #lisp is deemed to be in their mid-30s. This flatters almost everyone... 15:21:25 really? 15:21:31 *hefner* just 30 =/ 15:21:33 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:21:36 (turned, of course.) 15:21:49 Well, we did some statistics a few years ago, IIRC, the average was more like 40. 15:21:53 pigdude: only one thing, make sure you start with the right tools.. emacs/SLIME/quicklisp will save you a lot of headache 15:22:27 udzinari: you can pry vi from my cold, lifeless fingers :^) 15:22:29 pigdude: if you can't abide emacs you can get away with vi - many do - but just be quiet about it (: 15:23:01 haha 15:23:52 *p_l|backup* is suddenly reminded of someone asking him why he didn't send his wife for the coffee, regarding an /away notice 15:24:08 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-233-177-94.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:24:34 jkantz: Hey :) 15:24:42 pigdude: in case of vi slimv but other stuff still applies. and be sure to use up to date versions of sbcl/slime 15:24:47 pigdude: you might want to look at http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/6e91e20f2f371b52 , and if you use the emacs of vi's, slimv. 15:25:14 pigdude: what os are you using 15:25:58 looks reasonable to me 15:25:59 hey sellout, ehs said he ran into you 15:26:17 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-203-181.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:21 splittist: I'm 25 15:26:22 udzinari: debian, mac 15:26:39 Yeah. We hung out at ELS. Had a good time. 15:26:56 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 15:27:18 That said, using vi to develop lisp code looks like this http://static3.channels.com/thumbnails/Redskin-Insane-sack-e12184003.jpg 15:27:32 jkantz: I heard Andrew's in my seat now. 15:27:54 steevy [~steevy@95-89-218-109-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:28:17 pjb: haha 15:28:17 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-soprttpzgskknieo] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:28:18 yes and his name is scribbled over yours on the door (but he's not programming in lisp) 15:28:23 ;) 15:28:30 And that you guys are all on the edge of your seat, waiting to hear from the big G. 15:29:23 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-218-109-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 15:29:26 jkantz: What's he doing? Scala? 15:29:28 yes, it's sort of annoying at this point .. yes or no already 15:29:40 pigdude: distro packages for lisp are ugly on debian. I used this when I wasn on ubuntu: http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/. on mac 'brew install sbcl' gets you up to date sbcl 15:29:41 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:51 c++, java 15:30:10 jkantz: Martin spent the whole conference just checking his phone for Google news :) 15:30:20 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-dwgcnabofhtzpata] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:30:22 pigdude: and here's quicklisp: http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 15:30:24 udzinari: oh i use macports, so i'm installing sbcl right now that way 15:30:47 udzinari: what should i be concerned about w/ sbcl deb? 15:30:48 *udzinari* hates macports 15:31:10 pigdude: on Mac, you might prefer ccl. 15:31:27 http://ccl.clozure.com/ 15:31:32 pjb: why is that? 15:32:02 pigdude: it installs common-lisp-controller (whatever that is) & is usually out of date etc. 15:32:02 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:32:04 It has an Objective-C bridge, runs on Mac for longer than sbcl (and perhaps even cmucl) existed. 15:32:42 pjb: ok, thanks for the recommendatin 15:32:45 pigdude: and ccl has prototypes running on iOS ;-) 15:33:22 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:33:22 pigdude: common-lisp-controller is considered harmful, basically. It will cause you problems that no-one will understand until you reveal that you are using it, whereupon the first piece of advice will be to remove it. 15:33:28 i see 15:33:41 ..and then a CLC developer will appear out of nowhere and flame you to death 15:33:54 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:33:56 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:33:58 haha 15:34:00 that, too (: 15:34:05 oh ok it is a package manager for lips 15:34:07 *lisp 15:34:15 you can install lisps from macports just fine. 15:34:27 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.123] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:34:51 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.57] has joined #lisp 15:35:08 included ccl, clisp, sbcl and ecl, IIRC. 15:35:32 *udzinari* wonders whether people are still uncomfortable with cl having so many implementations, given how many others have at least half a dozen too 15:35:58 Who's uncomfortable? 15:35:58 xale: yea, i've done so a while ago on other machines. works fine 15:36:20 pjb: people on the other side of enlightenment barrier :) 15:37:19 pjb: though that should not matter, should it? 15:37:27 too bad my sbcl install doesn't have readline support...and even doesn't recall history 15:37:41 does this sound familiar? 15:37:42 pigdude: if it had, it'd be called clisp. 15:37:46 rlwrap sbcl 15:37:54 pigdude: sbcl does not support that. it's easy to add by loading linedit. 15:37:56 or, as we told you first! emacs sbcl 15:38:06 pigdude: and now you start discovering the difference between using emacs and vi (: 15:38:06 pigdude: dont run it on the terminal, get slimv/slime 15:38:07 You don't need readline when you have emacs. 15:38:17 pigdude: see, it begins like that... 15:39:11 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.248.14] has joined #lisp 15:39:16 so, sbcl repl is not full featured i suppose, ok 15:39:42 eh i won't worry about it too much 15:39:53 i'll begin w/ simple scripts and :w !sbcl 15:40:19 that is a bit like pedaling a bicycle with your lips. 15:40:22 pigdude: it's the unix philosophy: do a small thing and do it well. 15:40:24 this is a terrible idea. 15:40:25 pigdude: having said that, just dive in and see how far you get with the tools you are comfortable with, otherwise you'll be here in a week debating which transparency value to use for your terminal without having typed a paren 15:40:40 pigdude: readline or linedit do the line editing and history. sbcl does the lisping. 15:40:45 splittist: yep 15:40:49 pigdude: can I suggest a simple %y and pasting into the repl? 15:41:06 xale: I know, but that's what you get when you refuse the GPL. 15:41:14 splittist: that is what :w !sbcl does basically 15:41:34 youguy [~youguy@22.Red-81-39-174.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:50 pigdude: not really. What happens to your state between :w!'s? 15:42:07 tho [~tho@unaffiliated/tho] has joined #lisp 15:42:15 splittist: hm? 15:42:24 splittist: oh, i see what you mean 15:42:29 splittist: yea, i don't worry about that so much 15:42:56 splittist: this is just a common way i do little test scripts, and i just keep developing them in the buffer. so, :w !python, :w !perl, etc 15:42:59 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:43:16 that is an excellent way to think that every new thing is just like something you already know. 15:43:34 OK. When you're ready to move onto something a little more permanent have a look at quickproject (available via the indespensible quicklisp) 15:43:40 -!- petter` [~user@217.118.44.36] has left #lisp 15:43:48 Xach: it's certainly a good way to dabble in some language 15:43:52 pigdude: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2531 don't start with plain text edit.. spoils the fun. 15:43:58 pigdude: Not really. 15:44:01 no it isn't a good way. 15:44:08 udzinari: that is what was already open in my browser :) 15:44:12 what the x's said. 15:44:39 ok, i'lll just say these are all thought experiments and i am learning on paper :^) 15:45:07 the problem is that this way there is no debugger, no inspector, no nothing. nobody programs like that. 15:45:24 pigdude: don't even hint to #lisp you are disregarding its advice. We are merciless. 15:46:03 And remember that we've been programming in lisp since before your parents were still gonads. 15:46:20 I'd like to interject for a moment macport installs sbcl witout threads 15:46:25 -!- nome`` [~user@c-98-249-30-223.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:46:31 well that's no good 15:46:46 i might just build from src by hand, and get everything right 15:46:59 That's the best thing you can do. 15:47:00 cpc26: port install sbcl +threads 15:47:01 you can add threads as a variant +threads 15:47:13 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-304.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Fear not, I will return] 15:47:37 cpc26: i was hoping i might get readline support etc if i go by hand, but you're right 15:47:42 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 15:48:06 just use emacs and slime - I think you will like it 15:49:37 pigdude: I told you to be quiet about vi use (: 15:50:35 pigdude: yeah, Bill Joy even gave up on vi decades ago 15:51:03 Mekanik [~vov@91.79.62.57] has joined #lisp 15:51:52 Hi, I'm new to lisp. I've defined several global/dynamic variables via (defvar *X* nil) and like to modify them in a function which takes one variable as an argument. I understand that a function 'creates' a new binding form. How can I modify a global variable anyway? 15:52:17 (setf *x* 1) 15:52:18 -!- youguy [~youguy@22.Red-81-39-174.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:52:32 You cannot pass a variable, since parameter are passed by value. 15:52:45 But for special variables such as your globals, you could pass instead the symbol, and use: 15:52:59 (defun modify (variable) (setf (symbol-value variable) 1)) 15:53:05 (modify '*x*) 15:53:13 This is not advised. 15:53:25 It is better to write in a more functional style, where the function returns the new value: 15:53:40 (defun new-value (old-value) (+ old-value 2)) 15:53:49 (setf *x* (new-value *x*)) 15:54:05 La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 15:54:09 This allow you to compute new values without modifying the old one: 15:54:16 -!- splittist [~splittist@67-107.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: splittist] 15:54:29 (let ((x (new-value *x*))) (do-something-with x)) *x* is still bound to old value. 15:55:09 Or, in the case of special variables, even: (let ((*x* (new-value *x*))) (do-something)) ; when do-something runs, *x* is bound to new value, but when the let ends, *x* reverts to the old value. 15:55:39 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:45 Bronsa [~brace@host18-174-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:56:20 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:27 pjb: I see. Thanks for the advice. 15:57:29 have a nice weekend #lisp-ers 15:57:31 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e198-165.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 15:57:38 billitch [~billitch@78.250.212.52] has joined #lisp 15:57:39 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-fxkvliwqvzcxszes] has quit [Quit: asdasd] 16:00:06 urandom__ [~user@p548A4088.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:46 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:26 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:01:55 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:02:05 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 16:02:05 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 16:02:05 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:02:36 Just to make sure something like: (add-to-list (element list) (push element list)) and try to (add-to-list 1 *X*) first doesn't work (at least not as I expected) but is also not good functional style? 16:03:23 morning 16:04:04 Bronsa_ [~brace@host137-175-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:04:12 hello slyrus-san 16:04:26 RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:05 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host18-174-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:05:38 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 16:06:27 regarding slime and indentation (sbcl) -- i have been using the common-lisp indentation defaults. I've seen it mentioned that emacs knows best and i should allow it to format the code according to convention 16:06:45 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.212.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:14 which it apparently figures out by inpecting sources (?!) 16:07:46 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:08:09 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.33.152.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:08:41 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:09:04 but it seems a lot of code i see is much neater and more readable and lined up in a more visually understandable manner 16:09:37 could you give an example? 16:10:23 are there some agreed on set of indentation customizations 16:10:53 xale: for example lining up forms in setf with multiple sets of assignments 16:11:04 i think this comes close: http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/style.txt 16:11:17 -!- kevin01123 [~user@97-91-232-86.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:11:20 and indenting asdf systems in a reasonable way 16:11:42 -!- gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:11:45 what emacs does by default is mostly good, i think. 16:11:54 it has problems with some forms, like LOOP, though. 16:12:00 tho: I believe push is a destructive macro: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/they-called-it-lisp-for-a-reason-list-processing.html 16:12:12 and also: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_push.htm 16:13:01 and indentation when i have a line break among keyword args 16:13:34 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:15:00 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:11 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:16:26 does slime indentation for source code respect the "miser" etc *print-foo*? Thats just the repl / pprint right? 16:16:41 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:16:46 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:17:15 billitch [~billitch@78.250.212.52] has joined #lisp 16:17:30 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:17:44 huangho [~vitor@201-35-136-212.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:19:50 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:16 daniel [~daniel@p5082B0B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:13 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-66-193.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 16:23:36 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:23:52 -!- koivton [Derek@cs181222096.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:23:56 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326229.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:24:41 i will defer to emacs' better judgement over the matter of course 16:31:35 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has left #lisp 16:31:38 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:09 xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has joined #lisp 16:33:16 redline6`: I merged your break/reorganization of the Shuffletron code. In the TODO file, by "seeking", did you mean something not covered by the "seek" command. or was that an oversight? 16:34:09 seen above: "And remember that we've been programming in lisp since before your parents were still gonads." 16:34:24 I would add, we've obviously been skipping our biology classes. 16:36:14 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has joined #lisp 16:36:45 macrocat [~marmalade@99.192.98.131] has joined #lisp 16:37:22 all aspergers patients are equal around here. 16:37:26 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.123] has joined #lisp 16:38:11 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 16:38:35 *_3b* would have guessed 'english technical term' classes 16:39:21 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-66-193.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 16:39:35 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:39:38 gametes 16:40:37 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@188-195-186-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:43:29 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.212.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:43:50 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:47:12 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:58 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: A poorly written script will replace me shortly.] 16:49:59 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:02 -!- Oabl [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Oabl] 16:50:11 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 16:51:14 delian66 [~quassel@85.118.193.145] has joined #lisp 16:51:19 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.83] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:51:53 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.83.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:52:16 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 16:55:19 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:56:40 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:59:38 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:01:45 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:55 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 17:02:04 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:05 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:52 -!- joe999 [~root@cpe-24-93-169-224.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:57 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-100-74.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:04:17 dabd [~dabd@2001:690:2100:1c:21e:65ff:fe49:7c12] has joined #lisp 17:04:31 it's a double failure because the whole idiom idiotic, a single sex cell is not a precursor of an individual, only the fertilized egg is 17:05:14 *is idiotic 17:07:35 -!- Bronsa_ [~brace@host137-175-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:07:52 Bronsa [~brace@host137-175-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:07:53 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:09:58 -!- xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:11:57 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:12:09 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.123] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:12:22 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:13:05 For the world of me I don't understand why so many of the CL "persistence" systems are using random UUID's via (make-v4-uuid) instead of the namespaced variants e.g. (make-v3-uuid) or (make-v5-uuid) -- The only thing i can come up with is couch envy, e.g. "Thats how couchDB does it, so it must be right..." Why would users of a language like CL with nearly infinite namespace resolution hamstring the identity of their persistent objects 17:13:05 with a randomly generated identity when a namespaced identity could be be had for about the same cost? 17:13:23 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 17:14:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@74-126-1-198.static.123.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:41 peddie [~peddie@18.181.2.107] has joined #lisp 17:15:07 Maybe nobody else cares as much as you do. 17:15:23 Xach: Maybe they don't know.. 17:16:03 xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has joined #lisp 17:16:10 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:16:39 jkantz: Hooray :) 17:17:35 -!- delian66 [~quassel@85.118.193.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:17:41 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:18 delian66 [~quassel@85.118.193.146] has joined #lisp 17:18:20 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 17:19:08 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:19:18 dang it, there goes a potential quicklisp platinum customer 17:19:38 Quicklisp platinum? 17:19:50 -!- peddie [~peddie@18.181.2.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:19:57 hehe 17:20:04 Is that like gold but with reverse dependency resolution? 17:20:16 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 17:20:27 It's like the regular version, but very expensive. 17:20:44 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 17:20:47 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:21:44 HG` [~HG@94.220.124.229] has joined #lisp 17:22:39 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24:01 Is it impelementation dependent whether the inital-element is 1/0 for (make-array 8 :element-type 'bit) ? 17:24:08 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-50-194.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:24:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:25:31 mon_key: it's undefined what the initial element is if you leave it out 17:25:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:25:58 "If initial-element is not supplied, the consequences of later reading an uninitialized element of new-array are undefined unless either initial-contents is supplied or displaced-to is non-nil." 17:26:15 (huh, my irc client copies html styles. sorry if that looks weird) 17:27:56 -!- resub [~resub@CPE-58-175-148-62.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:30:59 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:45 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@static-195-114-183-51.devs.futuro.pl] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:34:58 sacho [~sacho@87-126-50-194.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 17:35:10 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 17:35:20 antifuchs: no html seen on this end :) 17:35:36 cmm: I suppose it would use irc color/style codes 17:35:37 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@74-126-1-198.static.123.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:35:39 any bold/italic? 17:36:31 antifuchs: Nope, nice and plain. 17:36:33 not as far as my irssi-with-busted-theme-colors can show 17:36:47 oh cool, thanks (: 17:37:54 sellout: have anyone sent you gnus colors for the solarized color theme yet? 'cause I finally may have some time for that tonight... 17:38:03 *has, bah 17:38:12 cmm: Nope, that'd be great :) 17:38:40 ok, as long as I don't fall asleep first :) 17:42:11 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:02 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C6B7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:36 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:26 xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has joined #lisp 17:47:23 billitch [~billitch@87-231-48-244.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:47:43 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C6B7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:16 ITA takeover got regulatory approval. 17:48:26 buh. misfire. 17:50:31 mon_key: the ql-repl-toys are looking pretty tight these days 17:50:49 hee hee, "The search giant would have to continue to licence ITA's software to airfare websites "on commercially reasonable terms." Google would also be required to maintain and enhance that software in a manner consistent with ITA's research and development investment over the past several years." 17:51:24 did ITA just get the DOJ to force google to keep it in lisp? (: 17:51:31 emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-170497.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:51:33 CL - it's the law! 17:51:40 awesome legal hack. 17:52:08 that's a good one to go with "CL: Not smug, just better" 17:52:17 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-173648.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52:18 "CL: It's not just better, it's the law!" 17:52:46 hey drewc 17:52:50 say, whatever happened to the boston lisp meetings? 17:52:57 run out of speakers? =p 17:53:04 Fare must have gotten bored 17:53:14 Xach: you need to get hipster glasses. 17:53:22 "CL: You've probably never heard of it before" 17:53:47 "SICP? That's so mainscheme" 17:53:50 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:54:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:54:25 hefner: they're now being held in amsterdam 17:54:30 hefner: next one is in october 17:54:35 hah, cool. except you've gotta feel some apprehension when the government uses the word "reasonable" 17:55:04 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:56:31 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:56:34 hefner: Whoops. Hi. I indeed missed the "seek" command but I was hoping for something similar to Winamp's 5 second inc/dec. 17:56:38 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-055-057.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:38 hefner: i.e. relative seeking. Thanks for merging, hope I didn't misplace things too badly. Glad to see you hacking again! :) 17:58:03 redline6`: I could make it recognize patterns like "seek +5", "seek -5", "seek -5s", "seek +20m", etc. 17:58:20 redline6`: no, just a few minor hiccups. thanks for tidying things up. 17:58:30 hefner: Sure. That sounds about like what I was looking for. 17:58:55 hefner: I was contemplating doing unbuffered i/o for a bit so you could just use left arrow, right arrow but decided it was a bad idea. 17:59:16 I've been talking about hacking around with shuffletron so long...I should actually *do* that. :P 18:00:56 redline6`: I'd like more control over the terminal and input/output (rlwrap screws things up), but laziness prevails 18:01:52 quicklisp was cool before it became all commercial 18:02:01 ideally one could turn the status bar back on, paginate long output nicely (usability would suck with rlwrap in the middle presently), scroll up and down, and seeking/skipping shortcuts are a fine idea too 18:02:07 I kind of want to focus on my photography right now 18:02:11 (ok, I'll stop) 18:02:29 hefner: I started on a lib to play around with this, trivial-raw-io (on github) but haven't gotten around to handling escape sequences and figuring out a good way to do things. Still learning about handling terminal/raw io. :) 18:02:49 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:02:54 hefner: That wasn't really for shuffletron though. More just exploring. Hell, maybe we should clean up cl-ncurses. haha 18:03:10 redline6`: neat. I don't know much about terminal programming, and never wanted to learn. I always said I'd sooner write a GUI than muck with that nonsense. 18:03:21 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.183.145] has joined #lisp 18:04:12 ..which would be trivial, if I could bear to bring mcclim into it, or steal enough code from it that I didn't need to. 18:04:20 hefner: Haha. Well, I liked the idea of a web frontend via hunchentoot but haven't actually used or played with it. 18:05:53 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:04 redline6`: the one that was there was a really basic proof of concept. My commit the other night probably replaces bits of it with half-done code that tries to be fancier using jquery and javascript. I doubt it even builds or runs in the current state. 18:06:30 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 18:06:58 I did that for a friend of mine though, because trying to share one shuffletron instance with his girlfriend using a shared screen session just wasn't working out. =p 18:07:47 hefner: Nice. 18:10:23 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 18:10:34 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:25 hefner: recommend they use tmux (-: 18:11:32 (it deals with screen sizes 'n stuff) 18:12:37 *hefner* passes that along. 18:13:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:13:42 araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has joined #lisp 18:13:42 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has quit [Changing host] 18:13:42 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:14:23 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-055-057.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:16:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:53 heh.sort of 18:17:07 tmux always shrinks to the smallest screen connected 18:19:02 dlowe: which is better than going crazy with screen coordinates that don't exist, IMHO (: 18:21:11 araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has joined #lisp 18:21:11 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has quit [Changing host] 18:21:11 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:21:53 okmijnoob [~user@195.217.72-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:20 -!- emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-170497.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:10 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:26:05 antifuchs: re: :initial-element thanks! just caught my scrollback 18:26:56 cpape [cpape@134.76.13.21] has joined #lisp 18:27:03 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-64-183-108.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:27:45 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-64-183-108.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit] 18:28:11 drdo [~user@194.210.228.2] has joined #lisp 18:30:02 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:30:16 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 18:30:40 joe999 [~root@rrcs-98-103-23-208.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:36 fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.187.55] has joined #lisp 18:32:47 danlentz: re: ql-repl-toys I really should set up some git repos... Unfortunately, I somehow suckered myself into converting my local repos from mq -> bzr about 1yr ago and the idea of now migrating those from bzr -> git (where git is obv. TRT esp. for CL) along with wrapping my head around a new DVC workflow is a little daunting... 18:33:29 For deploying a lisp-based web-application, I've been thinking of just running an instance of hunchentoot, and perhaps doing an Apache reverse proxy to hunchentoot. I've also thought about trying to run it straight in Apache. which is the "better" way of deploying such an app? 18:33:56 mon_key: What makes git the right thing wrt to CL? 18:34:40 TDT: if you do it "straight" in apache, where does Lisp come into play? 18:34:50 rtoym: best I can tell most public stuff is up on github... 18:35:15 Xach: I thought there was an apache module that existed to run lisp-based code, much like mod_php, but I admit it's been awhile since I last looked into this. 18:35:42 mon_key: Heh. If popularity is the criterion, you're using the wrong language. 18:35:51 TDT: http://xach.livejournal.com/144475.html is for you! 18:36:20 TDT: i use hunchentoot and a reverse proxy (nginx) 18:37:17 TDT: google mod_lisp 18:37:26 Xach: ahh, hmm...interesting, mod_lisp is different than I thought it was. The reverse proxy would be interesting to try out. 18:37:51 (unless that's what Xach was pointing to - I didn't open a browser) 18:38:10 blackwolf: Yeah, i admit you put in pretty much the minimal effort in response just there :) but .. thanks, I think. 18:38:44 -!- dabd [~dabd@2001:690:2100:1c:21e:65ff:fe49:7c12] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:38:55 -!- Mekanik [~vov@91.79.62.57] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 18:39:03 Xach: how do you spawn off hunchentoot? Do you use an init.d script (saw some people do this) or something else? 18:39:37 TDT: i start it at boot time from rc.local 18:40:02 rtoym: searching quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/releases.txt for "-bzr.tgz " doesn't find anything ;) 18:40:05 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:40:10 lanthan [~ze@p54B7DC45.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:14 Xach: *nod* ok. Thanks. I'm thinking if I do multiple sites I may try to have multiple instances of hunchentoot running, and reverse proxy each one. That way things are sandboxed a little better in some regards. 18:42:43 TDT: that is what i do. i have three going right now. 18:42:50 Of course, I need only one reverse proxy for it. 18:44:17 awesome, I'm excited about getting this working this weekend. Thanks for the help Xach 18:46:07 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.183.145] has quit [Quit: Offline] 18:49:36 Xach: Hmm, thinking a little about nginx and reading a little about it. Is it less overhead/memory than say Apache, overall? 18:49:54 I don't know. I use it because I like syntax of the config file. 18:50:32 ah ok. I heard about it in the past, but know nothing about it. Ah, another thing to learn about this weekend. 18:51:59 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:52:52 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 18:52:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 18:52:52 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:53:35 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:53:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:32 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 18:54:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 18:54:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:54:34 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:55:02 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 18:55:03 xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has joined #lisp 18:58:55 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-35-136-212.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:59:31 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:59:57 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:40 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-205.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:04 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-91.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:56 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-91.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:58 -!- xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:06:20 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-91.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:08:47 -!- Areil [~Areil@113.172.55.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:09:19 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:09:37 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 19:09:40 -!- Liera [~user@113.172.55.87] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:11:28 trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:55 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 19:14:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 19:14:55 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:18:09 -!- drdo [~user@194.210.228.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:18:22 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@66.71.230.192] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 19:18:32 -!- Spion__ [~spion@77.29.248.14] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:18:40 -!- tho [~tho@unaffiliated/tho] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:18:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@82-128.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:19:47 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.248.14] has joined #lisp 19:19:49 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.187.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:22:31 tho [~tho@unaffiliated/tho] has joined #lisp 19:24:12 do some people here use detachtty in a production environment ? 19:24:37 I found a nice bug where it segfaults when it cannot open the log file 19:27:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:28:23 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 19:28:28 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:29:23 I prefer screen. 19:29:27 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:02 We're using runit 19:30:55 realitygrill [~realitygr@74-126-1-198.static.123.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:41 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:31:55 *tcr1* finds himself writing ql:apropos all the time rather than ql:system-apropos 19:32:33 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@74-126-1-198.static.123.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:33:10 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:35:59 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:36:21 Joreji [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:36:32 -!- HG` [~HG@94.220.124.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:38:04 -!- pigdude [~tallen@gateway1.atlantic-media.us] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:39:34 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 19:43:03 (defun ql:apropos (arg) (ql:system-apropos arg)) ? :> 19:43:05 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:56 symbol not exported 19:44:27 blargh 19:44:36 (defun apropos (arg) (ql:system-apropos arg)) 19:44:56 or do (in-package ql) first and then (export-symbol 'apropos) after? 19:45:02 now you're going to get a package-lock 19:45:09 what's that? 19:46:41 wzergw [~hynek@ip-62-245-66-12.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:47:01 >Package locks protect against unintentional modifications of a package: they provide similar protection to user packages as is mandated to common-lisp package by the ANSI specification. They are not, and should not be used as, a security measure. 19:47:02 boo 19:47:29 fine, i'll just remove the :lock and reload ql 19:48:01 xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has joined #lisp 19:48:25 Replacing the system apropos with your own would suck mightily. 19:48:41 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:49:10 it's not a replacement, it's a wrapper 19:49:11 Well, unless your own includes the functionality of the cl:apropos too. 19:53:09 red1ynx [~red1ynx@178.121.15.68] has joined #lisp 19:53:50 Joreji_ [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:55:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:56:11 carlocci [~nes@93.37.205.212] has joined #lisp 20:03:50 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 20:06:45 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:48 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has joined #lisp 20:09:09 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:10:29 Hermanski [~b@c-c3cae253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:10:36 -!- Hermanski is now known as kae 20:12:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:13:38 xan_ [~xan@209.119.62.82] has joined #lisp 20:14:10 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host137-175-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:18:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@209.119.62.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:39 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:54 *splittist* wonders if Fare's head will explode working on a government-mandated software project 20:23:57 -!- nominolo [~nominolo@dhcp298F.kent.ac.uk] has left #lisp 20:23:59 hahahaha 20:25:05 -!- okmijnoob [~user@195.217.72-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:26:03 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 20:26:52 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Landr: tcr1: following is some slime/swank fun in the manner of a QL:SYSTEM-APROPOS http://paste.lisp.org/+2LL9 20:52:13 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-66-193.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:52:58 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:53:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-66-193.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 20:55:09 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:43 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:57:43 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-092-076-095-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:32 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:58:57 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 21:00:37 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@dialin-145-254-247-105.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by 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[~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:21:44 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 21:22:07 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.251] has joined #lisp 21:23:15 Joreji [~thomas@83-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:26:03 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.7-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:10 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-50-194.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:26:17 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.7-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:15 ignas [~ignas@client-212-117-11-142.inturbo.lt] has joined #lisp 21:29:02 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:37:30 sellout: github doesn't want to cooperate with me on sending you a pull request, so: https://github.com/cmm/emacs-color-theme-solarized 21:38:16 cmm: Thanks. 21:39:07 sacho [~sacho@87-126-50-194.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 21:40:12 haha, that's one screen for setup and the base faces, and one screen for gnus faces (: 21:40:14 nah, I had fun. writing some code to automate the closest color selection, then finding the results to be in many cases dubious at best so resorting to picking something manually, etc :) 21:40:15 cmm: nice work. 21:41:10 antifuchs: apparently my gnus usage is not advanced enough to excersize all the possible face combinations, so corrections welcome 21:41:42 cmm: Hey, what's up with this "yellow" and "black"? ;) 21:42:42 sellout: kept as it were on purpose, basically. it's meant to be frightening, so it looks awful in any color scheme! 21:43:58 I guess the right thing to do was not to define it? 21:45:21 *cmm* hasn't hacked elisp seriously in the last 10 years or so 21:45:37 cmm: *shrug* 21:46:33 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:47:14 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.9.78.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:49:29 -!- killerboy 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23:31:23 guterooombaah [4a6fc587@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.111.197.135] has joined #lisp 23:32:49 quodlibetor [~user@NYUFGA-GUESTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #lisp 23:35:11 -!- Landr [~user@78-23-213-22.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:16 -!- Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:38:10 -!- qiyan [~qiyyan@46.2.43.163] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:19 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-95-45.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:39:46 ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-95-45.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:41:08 reading land of lisp 23:42:04 -!- wzergw [~hynek@ip-62-245-66-12.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:42:53 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:44:23 A fine idea. 23:49:32 ericbb [~user@blk-224-153-99.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 23:51:17 codelurker [~codelurke@66.71.230.192] has joined #lisp 23:54:42 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