00:00:08 instead of having to use fucking awful C++ 00:00:25 <_3b> any specific methods? 00:00:39 idle for example 00:00:54 although i'm pretty positive it's not specific to redefining those methods 00:00:54 evening 00:01:00 <_3b> hmm, strange 00:01:13 it happens when i redefine other stuff too 00:01:24 what usually happens is that the first time i redefine 00:01:29 Xach: This is with the initialization code in .sbclrc 00:01:35 i get weird errors like stuff not showing up 00:01:38 and the second time 00:01:41 lisp dies 00:01:43 lakatos: I see your paste. I know the problem. 00:01:49 *_3b* supposes you could be getting unlucky and breaking something where i just get a missing method error or something 00:01:54 lakatos: see http://quicklisp.org/beta/release-notes.html for some suggested fixes 00:01:55 <_3b> which lisp do you use? 00:02:08 sbcl .47 00:02:10 X Error of failed request: BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation) 00:02:13 I get this as well 00:02:30 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-235-180.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:02:39 <_3b> i don't think i redefine the methods too often while it is running, more likely just have them call some function (with a restart around it), then redefine that function when i make changes 00:03:18 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 00:03:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:04:34 _3b: I'm redefining with it NOT running 00:04:37 <_3b> with cl-glut-examples:render-to-texture running, i can spam M-C-x or C-c C-c on the glut:idle or glut:display methods, with n o problems 00:04:45 jweiss_ [~user@adsl-065-005-174-221.sip.ilm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:46 i.e. after glut:display-window exits 00:05:01 <_3b> just once in a while hit method not found, but try again restart starts it back up again with no problms 00:05:21 i never get any lisp conditions 00:05:37 just display errors the first time and lisp crashing the second 00:05:42 <_3b> right, obviously something is more broken for you than for me :) 00:06:01 <_3b> can you try with tcl-glut-examples:render-to-texture? 00:06:09 <_3b> s/tcl-/cl-/ 00:07:00 <_3b> preferably in a fresh lisp, in case something is broken in the image already 00:07:10 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 00:07:33 *_3b* tried closing the window, recompiling those methods a bunch of times, restart, exit, compile some more, restart again, still no problem 00:07:39 -!- ldh [~ldh@static-217-37.vpn.wisc.edu] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 00:07:51 that's weird 00:07:53 are you on linux? 00:08:08 <_3b> yeah, ubuntu 10.04, x8664 linux, nv binary drivers 00:08:41 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:05 _3b: it works fine when i don't don't exit display-window 00:09:09 i just noticed that 00:09:26 maybe glut isn't expecting glutMainLoop to be called more than once? 00:09:36 <_3b> hmm, which glut do you use? 00:09:41 freeglut 00:10:37 <_3b> looks like freeglut here also, freeglut3 2.4.0-6.1ubuntu2 or something 00:10:39 but i just redefined glut:idle with the window running 00:10:42 and it worked fine 00:10:48 well, that's good enough for me 00:11:37 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 00:12:25 thanks anyway 00:12:34 lakatos: any luck? 00:12:52 *_3b* blames gfx card drivers :p 00:12:58 it's intel 00:13:12 <_3b> yeah, especially intel gfx card drivers :( 00:16:03 intel drivers are quite nice on linux 00:16:10 well, at least from a user point of view 00:16:19 they play nice with the other kids 00:16:21 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:17:31 *_3b* doesn't actually have any firsthand experience with intel stuff, just always annoying when i consider dropping support for older GL stuff, and look and intel is still shipping hardware with gl1.4 drivers :/ 00:17:49 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.255.82] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:03 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.255.82] has joined #lisp 00:18:09 is it possible to plug iolib sockets into cl+ssl in a way such that reading from a cl+ssl stream does not block? 00:19:06 Xach: what is the preferred means to acces the slot-value of ql-dist:system's release slot parent-preference or release? 00:19:42 mon_key: preferred for what purpose? 00:20:00 inspecting the release 00:20:09 mon_key: if the purpose is to find the object to which preference is delegated, preference-parent is preferred. (that's not specific to system instances) 00:20:25 mon_key: RELEASE 00:20:41 OK. Thanks. 00:21:38 Xach: I'll try to suggest the fixes later 00:21:41 I have to go 00:21:42 -!- lakatos [~istvan@c3.uaic.ro] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:22:37 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.170.32] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:23:07 _3b: I mean from a setup/usage point of view, it was much nicer than my previous laptop with a nvidia card 00:25:36 *_3b* has no problems with nv binary drivers (as long as i don't stress openCL stuff), probably a bit more power hungry than intel stuff though :) 00:26:13 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:19 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.255.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:27:28 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:30:32 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:31:07 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-174-190.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:33:34 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.255.82] has joined #lisp 00:34:28 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:56 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:00 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 00:43:49 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has joined #lisp 00:44:18 pnq [~nick@AC813E21.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:59 _3b: I just noticed 00:45:05 glu:cylinder doesn't exist 00:46:05 drdo: given that modern GPUs don't implement any geometry object other than triangles and lines (or at least, aren't required to...) 00:46:20 p_l|backup: so? 00:46:41 a cylinder is just a bunch of triangles 00:47:03 drdo: is it specified in GLU to be build of triangles? 00:47:09 no 00:47:16 but that's how it happens in real implementations 00:47:29 everything is a triangle 00:47:37 <_3b> bigger problem is that glu is ancient and probably draws the triangles with immediate mode or something :p 00:47:43 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483D722.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47:46 i don't really care 00:47:51 performance is really not an issue 00:47:52 drdo: not exactly... till recently, OpenGL included several other primitives 00:48:05 <_3b> feel free to file a bug on github though, if it is missing a binding 00:48:06 p_l|backup: of course it does 00:48:16 p_l|backup: I don't want to think in triangles 00:48:24 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483D722.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:31 anyway, ... it's intel. You are ensured the drivers will do something weird 00:48:41 It has nothing to do with the drivers dude 00:48:53 GL has some primitives 00:48:59 GLU is just a utility lib 00:49:19 It just uses opengl primitives to draw a cylinder 00:49:33 _3b: Eh, i need this for tomorrow 00:49:39 It's just a missing binding 00:49:45 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-54-94.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 00:49:50 I'll dig in and add it 00:49:50 drdo: eh, I misunderstood bloody thing >_> 00:49:54 <_3b> well, should be trivial to add it, then you can put a patch on github to go with the bug report :) 00:50:30 <_3b> (or just ignore it completely, not like i'm doing anything about it either :) 00:50:33 drdo: I guess my bad experiences with intel coloured this discussion :P 00:51:04 hehe 00:51:18 _3b: eh, come on, it's a couple of lines 00:51:30 moving you toward more complete bindings! 00:51:38 <_3b> hmm, looks like it is there already, just not exported 00:51:47 oh! 00:51:48 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-101-192.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:51:48 <_3b> or at least partially 00:51:51 btw 00:51:53 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 00:51:59 what's that NEW-QUADRIC thing 00:52:11 <_3b> at least it seems to be there as much as glu:sphere, which is exported 00:52:27 *_3b* has no idea, don't use glu much 00:52:33 sphere works 00:52:45 I just want to draw a shitty car 00:52:50 a cube and 4 cylinders 00:53:06 My current even shittier car is a rectangle 00:53:18 joe999 [~root@cpe-24-93-169-224.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:53:32 http://i.imgur.com/oUcjg.jpg ? 00:54:16 anyone know where swank/slime frobs as if by cl:format the :ACTION "[set value]" 8" :ACTION "[make unbound]" 9 stuff when returning the ISTATE struct data? 00:54:35 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-236-001.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:54:42 Xach: does it drive itself? That would be the only justification for it. 00:55:29 <_3b> drdo: might also look at glut:solid-cylinder since you are using glut 00:55:38 _3b: Do you know about any lib to load those models that those modelling programs export? 00:56:05 <_3b> https://github.com/3b/classimp is what i use 00:56:18 <_3b> might take some effort to actually render the results though 00:56:33 <_3b> depending on how complicated a format you use 00:57:30 All i really need is to show the models 00:57:35 I don't even need to animate 00:57:45 thanks 00:57:46 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-203-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:59:44 <_3b> no animation is easier, still can have complicated hierarchies or materials to deal with though 01:01:16 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-010-025.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:29 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:01:49 ASau [~user@95-27-203-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 01:07:53 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@66.71.230.192] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 01:09:10 -!- v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:09:36 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-71-86.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:48 is there something like cffi::with-pointer-to-vector-data that also works for vectors with a fill pointer? 01:11:04 better yes, something like with-pointer-to-vector-data-and-displacement. 01:14:58 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:17:14 in sbcl, (if (sb-kernel:array-header-p array) (values (sb-kernel:%array-data-vector array) (sb-kernel:%array-displacement array)) (values array 0)) 01:24:47 Jaye34 [~jaten@rrcs-24-227-244-80.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:10 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:28:22 hey guys, I'm calling from lisp into some legacy c++. I've got a bunch of C++ classes with overloaded constructor methods. Since there's only one initialize-instance method, I'm not sure how to map say 3 constructors to the one initirialize-instance. help? 01:29:51 Jaye34: surely they export a common interface? 01:30:01 Xach: apropos http://paste.lisp.org/+2LIE/3 this is where I've gotten w/r/t inspecting QL releases from slime: http://paste.lisp.org/+2LJP I'd like to prevent the presentation fo [make unbound] so users can't fuck their current QL system... 01:30:42 p_ljbackup: not sure what you mean. The first ctor takes an int, the second constructor takes an int and a string, and they are separate functions in C++. 01:30:48 Jaye34: also, is the C++ cod done according to IA64 C++ ABI (GCC >=3.x and compatibles)? 01:31:00 And the third ctor takes two strings. 01:31:02 Jaye34: use keyword arguments then 01:31:14 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:31:25 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:26 and select the ctor on their types 01:32:08 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:32:47 p_ljbackup: yes, the code compiles with gcc 4.4.3. 01:33:29 p_ljbackup: so do I need to do &allow-other-keys to have these methods generic? 01:34:38 I think I grok the keyword idea. I'll give it a try. 01:34:43 Thanks guys. 01:34:46 -!- Jaye34 [~jaten@rrcs-24-227-244-80.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:09 myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 01:38:18 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:39:42 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:38 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 01:43:17 eh, he left... I had a way to make type-of work on C++ instance pointers :3 01:45:45 (grap pointer to instance, and substract the size of a pointer from it, then compare the contents of the pointer at that memory address - it's pointer to class object) 01:50:45 -!- joe999 [~root@cpe-24-93-169-224.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:22 joe999 [~root@cpe-24-93-169-224.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:25 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:27 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:52:26 -!- axia [~axia@c-24-131-81-136.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:52:33 -!- danlentz_ [~danlentz@c-68-46-98-23.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 01:53:04 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-46-98-23.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:28 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:55:05 p_l|backup: depends on the C++ compiler. 01:56:22 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:56:57 pjb: that's why I asked 01:57:40 pjb: IA64 ABI, which is used by G++ 3.x and newer, as well as all compilers that claim to be binary compatible (surprising amount), have that structure 01:57:59 and despite the name, the ABI is used for pretty much all architectures 01:58:19 Yes, it's natural. In Objective C, you don't even have to offset the pointer. struct { class* isa; } object; 01:58:34 probably because it's the only ABI I know which isn't defined by compiler internals ;P 01:58:41 (for C++, that is) 01:59:06 pjb: yeah, Objective-C has it easier, but that's probably due to different roots of its object system 02:00:23 Hermanski [~b@c-c3cae253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 02:00:30 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:00:58 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 02:01:38 -!- cmbntr_ [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:01:38 -!- mephistophocles [~mephistop@ec2-50-17-225-30.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:01:38 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:01:38 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:01:38 -!- [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:01:38 -!- kaek 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[~dkasak@93-138-24-29.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:09:27 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:10:00 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 02:10:25 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:16:51 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.255.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:55 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.244.138] has joined #lisp 02:19:49 nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:12 anyone recognize the meaning of this from kt's 'cells'?: (button "Search" (:enabled t #+not (c? (> (length (value (psib))) 1))) 02:21:36 It doesn't seem to be valid if :not is in *features*. 02:21:43 I guess he wanted a #-not before the t. 02:22:10 So that when :not is in *features*, it be enabled depending on whether the length of (psib) is greater than 1. 02:22:38 thanks 02:23:18 -!- tic_ [~tic@c83-249-193-119.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:23:34 Not that I know anything about cells or kt's code. 02:24:55 ldh [~ldh@h184-60-28-206.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:00 *_3b* would guess it is just using #+not to comment out the test, and replacing it with T 02:25:34 Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483A873.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:13 -!- rme_ [~rme@209.117.33.69] has quit [Quit: rme_] 02:28:11 when a struct is redefined in sbcl, do i need to also recompile all use sites? i remember having problems with that. 02:28:28 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483D722.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:33:54 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:34:04 oh, it warns. 02:34:16 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:34:49 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 02:35:41 -!- jweiss_ [~user@adsl-065-005-174-221.sip.ilm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:39:16 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:41:00 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.23.223] has joined #lisp 02:42:04 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:43:38 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91.153.112.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:43:45 CL doesn't support struct definition in a well defined fashion. I forget sbcl's support, but it probably doesn't. 02:47:01 redefinition? 02:47:28 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has joined #lisp 02:47:38 Dont use structures unless you really have to, and for preference dont use them at all while your application is under active development. Structure accessors are inlined: blinding efficiency which comes at a price. Every time you redefine a structure youll have to force-recompile every reference to it, quite possibly in a fresh Lisp image. 02:47:45 http://lisp-book.org/contents/ch20.html 02:49:36 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 02:50:42 actually, sbcl seems to handle that alright now. 02:51:47 it warns on redefinition and does not lot you run stale code. or so it seems. 02:52:38 -!- akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:53:14 02:53:15 CL-USER> (defstruct x (a)) 02:53:15 STYLE-WARNING: redefining MAKE-X in DEFUN 02:53:15 X 02:53:15 CL-USER> (defstruct x (b)) 02:53:15 WARNING: incompatibly redefining slots of structure class X 02:53:15 Make sure any uses of affected accessors are recompiled: 02:53:16 These slots were deleted: 02:53:16 (A) 02:53:17 02:53:17 ; Evaluation aborted. 02:54:05 joe999: use paste.lisp.org please 02:54:11 ok 02:56:48 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.227.164] has joined #lisp 02:56:58 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 02:58:54 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.143.20] has joined #lisp 03:00:57 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.23.223] has left #lisp 03:03:20 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:04:42 myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 03:06:21 xan_ [~xan@209.119.62.66] has joined #lisp 03:06:34 -!- wliao [~wliao@123.122.13.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:08:11 #+not does appear to have been used to comment out code, similar to (and t #+not f) 03:08:26 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:09:29 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.244.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:11:57 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:05 joe999: Indeed, I don't know any lisp implementation called NOT. Not Obviously True. 03:17:28 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-57-242.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 03:17:46 The correct incantations involve (or) or (and) #+(and) yes #-(and) no or #-(or) yes #+(or) no. Obviously, (and) should be prefered. 03:21:18 -!- nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:24:36 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:33:05 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dkaoocjbtxrzwhxa] has joined #lisp 03:36:21 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has joined #lisp 03:38:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@209.119.62.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:40:05 troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:33 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 03:44:04 "don’t use structures unless you really have to" is putting it a bit strong 03:45:52 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:48:07 Adlai` [~adlai@109-186-68-14.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 03:49:09 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 03:49:27 CLOS can be a heavy hammer to start swinging when the alternative is really just C-c C-k-ing your file a few times and ignoring a warning 03:49:44 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:49:46 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Client Quit] 03:49:49 What are AUX parameters for? 03:50:07 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 03:50:42 drdo: local variables. 03:51:08 pjb: Do they serve for convinience instead of writing a labels form to loop with? 03:51:10 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Client Quit] 03:51:12 drdo: it's practical when generating macros, because thus you avoid wrapping the body in a let form, and having to deal with docstrings and declarations. 03:51:37 (particularly if, like me, you find it gross how frequenctly CL code informally crams data into a list then plucks it out or destructures it later) 03:52:04 hefner: why do you find it gross? It's quite efficient actually. 03:52:19 So i can't actually specifiy the arguments for aux parameters? 03:52:41 drdo: no. they're not parameters. 03:52:47 No real parameters. 03:52:53 meh 03:54:50 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:55:07 pjb: as a lazy bastard I have no pragmatic objection to it, particularly if the producer/consumers fit in the same page or can be written within half an hour of each other 03:55:51 hefner: well, you need to define a documenting (defstruct (... (:type list)) ...) 03:56:02 pjb: but part of me still cringes at aggregating data with LIST (particularly if you retrieve it using FIRST/SECOND/etc. instead of destructuring bind) instead of meaningful accessors 03:56:10 pjb: well, that's not really what I was referring to. 03:56:37 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:51 I wrote a macro that did both once, expanded to defstruct and a with-struct macro that expanded to a destructuring-bind. 03:56:54 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-105-247.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:12 pjb: but in that case, my inner C programmer objects to the probably unnecessary storage bloat and pointer chasing of the linked list :) 03:57:35 hefner: You need to fight that. This might be more efficient than real slots. 03:58:01 No modern machines, you need to revise micro-optimizations a lot... 03:58:06 s/No/On/ 03:58:09 Oops :-) 03:58:23 uhhh? 03:58:37 probably breaks even in storage with a real struct if you only have two slots.. 03:58:41 no way; pointer chasing is even worse than real slots than it used to be. 03:58:52 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-105-247.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:57 I mean, real defstruct slots. defclass slots are a different animal of course 03:59:23 I don't have any real intuition about their performance relative to lists. :) 03:59:41 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 04:00:07 it's a beautiful day for a microbenchmark! at least it will be, says the weather forecast. 04:00:14 pjb: still, modern machines get a boon if the data is localized, while older hw didn't have a problem with chasing pointers around... 04:01:18 Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-215.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 04:01:29 now, a form of CDR-coding might help it if you have good tagged operations that minimize the impact of CDR coding, or use a different structure for it... 04:02:08 Or you could modify the language to de-emphasize lists in favor of vectors. 04:02:52 Or you could just expect your allocator and GC to keep them relatively close together. 04:03:37 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:04 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.117] has joined #lisp 04:04:06 You're still doing unnecessary pointer chasing and use twice as much memory as you need to. 04:05:39 Yeah, but on the other hand you can decompose the data incrementally. 04:05:59 And all of your pairs are of the same size. 04:05:59 argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-65-160-240.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:12 It's one of those areas where common sense can easily fail. 04:07:36 I'd just worry about the operations you care about, to be honest -- is random access or is recursive destructuring important for the data in question? 04:08:25 Sure. If your algorithm makes actual use of using a linked list, it might be worthwhile to use one. If it doesn't, then you shouldn't use one, because it only has negatives. 04:08:42 -!- Jubb [~ghost@c-98-204-160-127.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:09:07 -!- troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:09:37 Nonsense. 04:10:08 Zhivago: yeah, but things might get tricky depending on the actual operation... wouldn't for the arglist, though 04:10:38 There are lots of negatives and positives for everything -- avoid being too prejudicial. 04:10:58 Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.61.152] has joined #lisp 04:11:29 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-65-160-240.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:11:35 Sure. The positives of a linked list: you can rearrange the links. The negatives: it's slower to access (even in order) and takes more memory. 04:11:35 yep 04:11:48 foom: Not necessarily. 04:12:10 Consider search algorithms. 04:12:14 anyway, it all depends on how it's used, and frankly speaking, I wouldn't mind using linked list for execution stack 04:12:25 Linear scanning can beat binary search in many cases. 04:12:50 But those cases are often unintuitive and hard to predict. 04:13:17 SidH_ [~SidH_@203.101.61.10] has joined #lisp 04:13:47 I agree; linear memory behavior is quite often better, sometimes even if it means you look like you're doing more work. 04:14:08 I don't see where that argues *for* a linked list, though. 04:14:27 It's an argument against your intuition. 04:14:41 -!- ldh [~ldh@h184-60-28-206.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 04:14:47 -!- benny [~benny@i577A74A4.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:14:52 Avoid prejudice; profile. 04:15:06 Well, your particular example was badly chosen then, because it backs up my intuition. :) 04:15:31 No, it doesn't. 04:15:36 Re-read what I wrote. 04:18:19 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-105-247.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:18:25 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-105-247.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:38 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:18:53 is a cons-built binary tree a linked list anymore? :P 04:19:23 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:19:56 Yes. 04:19:58 Shrug. You said the cases where linear scan beats binary search are unintuitive and hard to predict. Some would consider it unintuitive that it *ever* would beat when n > 4 or so, and yet it quite often does. Hard to predict? Sure, it's hard to predict the actual size where a binary search becomes valuable, but it's not hard to predict that there *is* such a point, and that below that point linear search is faster. 04:23:33 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:24:09 foom: And since that point shifts radically from system to system ... 04:26:50 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:27:35 So, yes, there you have a tradeoff between two advantages, where the exact balance depends on the system. If there is no tradeoff, like if you're using a linked list without taking advantage of its capabilities over a vector's capabilities...then you should not use a linked list, but a vector. Because it's going to be some amount faster (again depending on the system), but you aren't trading that for anything. 04:30:26 cibs [~cibs@Sylpheed.Math.NCTU.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 04:30:35 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:31:19 -!- sonnym1 [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:32:56 peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 04:33:19 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 04:37:45 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 04:39:33 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:39:33 -!- cibs_ [~cibs@Sylpheed.Math.NCTU.edu.tw] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:44:16 -!- awvtui is now known as _awvtui 04:44:42 -!- _awvtui is now known as awtui 04:44:46 -!- awtui [~awvtui@xvm-101-241.ghst.net] has left #lisp 04:48:31 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:49:29 foom: "it's hard to predict the actual size where a binary search becomes valuable" 04:55:59 "when in doubt, use brute force"... with corollary: "intelligently" 04:56:18 BST is probably close enough to brute force, though 04:57:39 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 04:58:08 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-65.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:58:24 leo2007 [~leo@111.194.110.255] has joined #lisp 05:00:35 -!- joe999 [~root@cpe-24-93-169-224.neo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 05:00:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-193.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:01:26 got ssl to work. 05:08:21 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 05:09:26 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:24 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:16:43 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 05:16:51 -!- kephas [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-10-231.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:25:07 Krystof [~csr21@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:32:26 JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 05:32:30 nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-88-62.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:32:43 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-0-92.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:32:56 gafternoon smilers 05:33:32 -!- orivej [~orivej@host-50-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:33:38 I just used a dichotomy. But since 95% of the targets are the first element of the vector, it's in a (or (= target (aref vector 0)) (dichotomy target vector)). 05:33:55 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.143.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:34:20 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.23.223] has joined #lisp 05:34:33 Basically, a sequential search here would not be much worse, and would spare me the dependency on a library, or copy-and-paste of the dichotomy function... 05:36:05 iaindalton [~user@host-72-174-169-102.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:13 nostoi [~nostoi@14.Red-79-150-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:42 davekong [~davekong@unaffiliated/davekong] has joined #lisp 05:38:01 -!- oGMo [~rpav@66.219.59.103] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 05:38:08 Is is alright to setf to a parameter? It's optional, and if not set, I want to derive its value from the required parameters. 05:38:11 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:38:30 oGMo_ [~rpav@66.219.59.103] has joined #lisp 05:38:47 Do clocc packages have versions? I can't seem to find what the current version of port is. 05:39:34 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:39:43 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:39:47 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 05:39:57 iaindalton: you can check to see if it is not set then setf it 05:40:53 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 05:41:00 That's what I'm doing with (when (null parm)). I just wasn't sure if it's bad style or anything. 05:42:29 iaindalton: the param should be something like (param default is-set) then you should check is-set 05:42:57 so you know that nil was not passed 05:43:10 unless in this case nil should never be passed 05:43:23 <_3b> wouldn't you just use the default option there? 05:43:42 oh 05:43:48 yeah probably from the sound of it 05:43:54 davekong: the value needs to be non-nil, so I don't need to do that, right? 05:44:02 oh, you jsut said that :P 05:44:36 (param (derived value)) 05:44:38 can I use a default value? it needs to compute based on the other params 05:44:46 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:44:57 <_3b> (defun foo (a b c &optional (d (some-function-of a b c)))) 05:45:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45:23 Oh, OK. So the default value form isn't evaluated until all the required params are 05:45:31 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:46:01 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:46:58 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:48:24 (defun rectangle-area (x &optional (y x)) (* x y)) 05:48:31 just try it :) 05:48:35 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@14.Red-79-150-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:48:39 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.179.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:49:37 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.179.202] has joined #lisp 05:50:01 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:51 Guest84973 [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-2-218.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:07 PORT downlods are just snapshots of the current tip of the hg repository? 05:56:40 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-252-200.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:58:09 -!- Guest84973 is now known as Khisanth 05:58:40 iaindalton: the default value form is not evaluated if you provide a value. 05:59:16 iaindalton: you can setf a parameter, but remember it's a local lexical variable. 05:59:23 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 05:59:34 (parameters passing is done by value in lisp). 06:01:10 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-nhvacekjlbcfjnmy] has joined #lisp 06:03:18 davekong, pjb: thanks, it works as described 06:03:41 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:05:25 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:09:22 mfranc [~mfranc@nat/redhat/x-bpctzpzlxlyqialj] has joined #lisp 06:10:42 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-135-187.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:40 -!- pnq [~nick@AC813E21.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:19:45 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:20:03 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:20:03 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:20:03 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:26:14 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:26:46 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 06:28:07 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:30:25 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:32:38 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:38:26 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 06:39:14 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-50-232.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:32 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 06:40:38 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-135-187.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:42:11 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:47:09 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:47:19 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-010-025.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:47:44 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-010-025.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:50 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 06:54:23 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:57:35 youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:27 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:05:08 ASau` [~user@95-27-194-66.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:07:07 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.227.164] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:07:44 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 07:07:57 -!- youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 07:09:16 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-203-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:10:14 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@39.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:28 spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 07:14:22 amb007 [~a_bakic@39.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:43 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:15:16 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-iicgjnyhfoafwpzn] has joined #lisp 07:17:11 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has joined #lisp 07:25:47 tic [~tic@c83-249-193-119.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:26:15 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:34 CLwiki does not seem to mention the clocc libraries under "recommended libraries" is there a reason for this? Should clocc be avoied in favor on those on that page? http://www.cliki.net/Current%20recommended%20libraries 07:31:40 Is there some kind of standard library for CL going on? 07:32:23 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-173648.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 07:33:38 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 07:35:13 I am trying to write a TCP client and not sure what library I should be using 07:35:39 davekong: I guess alexandria kind of wants to supersede clocc and a few other general libraries. 07:36:14 davekong: for networking portability libraries, you have trivial-socket, usocket or iolib. 07:36:45 (in order of increasing sophistication). 07:36:59 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:37:29 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:38:24 pjb: thanks guess I will try usokcet (looks like trivial-socet is no longer maintained) 07:39:04 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-010-025.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:39:33 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 07:41:09 morning 07:41:18 Hello splittist 07:41:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41:32 TheRealLongshot_ [~longshot@180.184.34.163] has joined #lisp 07:41:57 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:44:20 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:44:21 -!- TheRealLongshot_ is now known as TheRealLongshot 07:44:43 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-lyiwtsgepzcdujuj] has joined #lisp 07:45:17 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-010-025.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:57 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:52:31 -!- Spion__ [~spion@77.29.248.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:52:40 -!- borkaman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:53:37 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:54:00 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-010-025.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:54:21 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-010-025.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-206-33.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:57:09 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-112-43.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:57:24 Is there a DESTRUCTURING-BIND equivalent for vectors, or do I have to build my own? 07:58:16 -!- Tordek [~tordek@april-fools/yetanotherhardetest/tordek] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:58:34 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-54-94.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:59:03 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:00:13 aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:00:29 jtza8: if you search well, you might find one on cll, IIRC. 08:00:39 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-228-31.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:47 It's probably faster to rewrite it yourself :-) 08:01:04 Thanks pjb. 08:01:40 valcaron [~valc@c-66-235-32-181.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:41 -!- iaindalton [~user@host-72-174-169-102.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:02:52 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-50-232.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:03:53 -!- Raykon [~user@bl14-196-196.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:04:40 usocket does not come with any installation directions?? 08:05:03 There may be some tutorial however. Possibly. 08:05:25 Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #lisp 08:05:26 -!- Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has quit [Changing host] 08:05:26 Tordek [~tordek@april-fools/yetanotherhardetest/tordek] has joined #lisp 08:06:14 davekong: use quicklisp! 08:07:22 davekong had a problem installing a package. I know!, he thought, I'll use Quicklisp! davekong now had zero problems. 08:07:45 Deep! 08:07:49 lol :) sorry guys I am somewhat new to lisp 08:08:26 Cin: haha 08:08:38 Cin: I suggest you write a short story (or book). 08:09:04 Haha. 08:09:09 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.248.14] has joined #lisp 08:09:24 looks nice 08:10:52 -!- CrazyEddy [~unsympath@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:48 I need to run the setup for all of the different lisps I want to use? 08:13:57 Cin: hit big selling the rights to Hollywood! 08:15:04 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:15:47 Cin: if you decide to write a book, I'll do the typesetting work at perhaps no charge!! 08:16:13 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 08:18:43 I've tried to load the current (git) iolib ... but that need an idna library, which I cannot find 08:18:50 Does anyone have a pointer for me? 08:19:11 (preferably into the intarwebs, not just *(int*)0x651231 or something like that ;-) 08:20:07 flip214: https://github.com/antifuchs/idna 08:20:33 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@180.184.34.163] has quit [Quit: TheRealLongshot] 08:20:37 Hmmm, thank you. google didn't help me here ... perhaps I'd have to look at page 13 or something like that. 08:22:39 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:23:04 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:23:22 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:24:38 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:24:44 FedXA [~fedxa@roam-nat-sw-prg-gm-194-254-61-1.net.univ-paris-diderot.fr] has joined #lisp 08:30:28 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:31:23 dmiles [~dmiles@75-175-105-247.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:57 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 08:33:49 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-105-247.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:34:32 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joined #lisp 10:22:06 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:26:31 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 10:26:31 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 10:26:31 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 10:26:35 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:26:38 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:40 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-ljeskqozcvggeidh] has joined #lisp 10:27:47 bizarrefish [~ray@87.114.186.206] has joined #lisp 10:28:11 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has joined #lisp 10:32:10 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:36:29 -!- bizarrefish [~ray@87.114.186.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:37:31 Hmm. https://github.com/m2ym/cl-syntax doesn't make much sense to me. 10:37:40 Does anyone else have the problem it solves? 10:37:57 -!- Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483A873.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:39:47 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:40:11 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has joined #lisp 10:40:36 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:26 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-27-25.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:49:16 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:49:46 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 10:50:17 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-105-247.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:54:58 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:02:08 Xach: sounds like editor-hints/named-readtables under a different name 11:02:18 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-65.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:04:00 BlankVerse 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[~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:48:23 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:48:50 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 11:50:58 If reader-macros returned multiple values and the semantics were to splice in all values, then you could actually have bash-style globbing 11:51:31 Taggnostr3 [~x@dyn57-215.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 11:51:56 -!- Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-215.yok.fi] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:53:01 Oabl_ [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:08 -!- Oabl [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:53:14 -!- Oabl_ is now known as Oabl 11:53:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-206-33.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:59:18 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:38 youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:11 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:49 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:05:21 longfin [~longfin@1.99.73.235] has joined #lisp 12:05:27 -!- FedXA [~fedxa@roam-nat-sw-prg-gm-194-254-61-1.net.univ-paris-diderot.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:33 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@208.252.23.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:07:04 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.143.20] has joined #lisp 12:07:11 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:10:20 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:11:58 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:23 -!- youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:14:09 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 12:17:08 lichtblau: it seems like he's talking about the slime repl, though, not a file...maybe I misread 12:18:40 Ok, the repl isn't mentioned. I see. 12:18:57 tcr1: Have you revisited the idea of defining a readtable based on some forms (e.g. cl-interpol:enable-interpol-syntax)? 12:19:24 tcr1: this cl-syntax thing has renewed my interest in it, to the point of wanting to do some hacking 12:20:27 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-133-208.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:21:48 MoALTz [~no@92.9.78.94] has joined #lisp 12:25:57 -!- longfin [~longfin@1.99.73.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:26:18 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 12:28:38 LiamH [~healy@129-2-134-201.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:28:46 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:29:33 longfin [~longfin@1.109.198.252] has joined #lisp 12:33:26 am0c [~am0c@121.129.151.230] has joined #lisp 12:34:59 -!- longfin [~longfin@1.109.198.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:35:05 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-71-86.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 12:38:11 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:15 delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:39:32 -!- chr` is now known as chr 12:40:01 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:48 sacho [~sacho@87-126-50-194.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 12:46:56 tcr1: this turned out to be very easy. i quite like the code for named-readtables. 12:50:43 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:52:12 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 12:52:35 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.225.193] has joined #lisp 12:57:45 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:10 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:23 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:00:51 longfin [~longfin@49.28.251.61] has joined #lisp 13:01:26 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:01:39 -!- beach` is now known as beach 13:03:58 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 13:03:59 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:02 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 13:04:02 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 13:04:02 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 13:04:07 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has joined #lisp 13:05:53 urs_ [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 13:06:07 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:07:15 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:07:47 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 13:07:47 -!- longfin [~longfin@49.28.251.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07:53 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:08:32 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 13:08:42 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:09:26 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.33.152.39] has joined #lisp 13:10:36 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-235-180.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:10:36 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 13:10:50 sellout [~Adium@64.134.67.6] has joined #lisp 13:11:04 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:12:25 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:13:11 carlocci [~nes@93.37.192.152] has joined #lisp 13:14:15 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 13:14:46 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:15:47 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.143.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:17:05 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 13:17:35 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.143.20] has joined #lisp 13:19:15 we use *load-truename* in several places in our code, how can I configure asdf not to use .cache directory for compiled libs so that *load-truename* works correctly? 13:20:28 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 13:20:50 freiksenet: not an answer to your question, but have you considered asdf:system-relative-pathname? 13:21:18 jdz: we probably should refactor to that at some point, yes 13:21:30 freiksenet: you can disable it with (asdf:disable-output-translations) 13:21:40 but currently I need to load it with asdf2 on my local machine ) 13:21:43 Xach: ok, thanks! 13:24:44 cpape [cpape@linux01.gwdg.de] has joined #lisp 13:25:11 -!- sellout [~Adium@64.134.67.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:25:51 tcr1: now my brain is somewhat boggled. 13:26:58 sellout [~Adium@64.134.67.6] has joined #lisp 13:27:18 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-134-201.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:29:20 jweiss_ [~user@cpe-174-106-083-113.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:30:44 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:31:04 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:23 tcr1: Who sells teclos products? 13:32:19 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:35:33 chr: teclo? 13:35:40 Xach: about define-cruft? 13:35:56 -!- ltriant__ [~ltriant@124-149-83-185.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:36:06 that boggled at least stassats' and rtoym's brain :-) 13:37:04 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.67] has joined #lisp 13:37:12 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.67] has quit [Changing host] 13:37:12 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:37:38 bbl 13:37:39 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:38:00 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.143.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:38:16 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:40:25 arrrgh 13:41:44 That doesn't sound like enlightenment 13:43:14 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:07 davekong [~davekong@unaffiliated/davekong] has joined #lisp 13:44:38 akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:44 How do I load clisp modules? 13:45:29 splittist: Just spoiled by realtime discussion. I have emailed tcr. 13:46:15 davekong: http://www.clisp.org/impnotes.html#modules has the scoop 13:46:22 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:48 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-87-52-181.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:17 -!- cpape [cpape@linux01.gwdg.de] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 13:50:15 ivan4th [~ivan4th@87.249.9.98] has joined #lisp 13:50:25 gozoner [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has joined #lisp 13:50:28 ldh [~ldh@static-217-37.vpn.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 13:50:34 So I would load the regex module how? I am not seeing it 13:50:51 did you install it? 13:50:58 it is included it says 13:51:20 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-235-180.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:51:23 with what lisp? 13:51:29 xale: clisp 13:51:43 http://www.clisp.org/impnotes/regexp-mod.html 13:52:17 *features* contains the symbol 13:52:34 you don't need to load it, i think. 13:52:50 match and regex:match are giving errors 13:52:59 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:53:41 davekong: What errors? 13:54:09 davekong: I don't know how to be selective, but "clisp -K full" will load all available modules. 13:55:03 oh 13:55:07 I am an idiot 13:55:09 sorry 13:55:25 it's regexp not regex 13:55:29 ltriant_ [~ltriant@124-168-219-110.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:56:55 -!- davekong [~davekong@unaffiliated/davekong] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 13:57:25 Xach: that advice is potentially dated, the latest release uses dynamic modules by default 13:57:47 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:58:43 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:43 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:58:43 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 14:00:58 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:03:37 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.143.20] has joined #lisp 14:03:44 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:22 astoon [~astoon@nat121-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has joined #lisp 14:07:23 chr: I suspect that you won't find them through a "retailer", givn the market. Most purchases are probably through direct inquiry to the company by interested buyer, after seeing the stuff on the net or (more probably) at a trade show, I guess. 14:10:17 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:12:21 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-235-180.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:12:32 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:35 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:13 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-71-86.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:17:29 xinming_ [~hyy@115.221.12.252] has joined #lisp 14:18:59 pnq [~nick@AC834279.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:41 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.8.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20:14 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.123] has joined #lisp 14:20:50 Pirxs [~Pirx@195.225.69.9] has joined #lisp 14:21:52 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21] has joined #lisp 14:22:48 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 14:27:29 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:54 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:07 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:31:03 minion: memo for davekong: with clisp >=2.49, just (require "module") ; -K full doesn't work anymore. 14:32:02 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21] has joined #lisp 14:34:13 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:34:14 -!- mfranc [~mfranc@nat/redhat/x-bpctzpzlxlyqialj] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:37:21 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 14:37:30 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:37:47 urandom__ [~user@p548A2CD7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:04 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:58 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@87.249.9.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:09 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:41 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.33.152.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:40:46 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:42:38 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-110-4.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:43:03 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:19 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-235-180.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:43:40 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:48 Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:44:50 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-nhvacekjlbcfjnmy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:44:56 Davidbrcz [david@212.198.126.167] has joined #lisp 14:46:25 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:49 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:51:18 -!- Oabl [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Oabl] 14:53:44 -!- Pirxs [~Pirx@195.225.69.9] has quit [] 14:57:04 -!- am0c [~am0c@121.129.151.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:57:44 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:00:03 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:01:30 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has left #lisp 15:01:55 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87f967.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:26 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.23.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:17 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-ljeskqozcvggeidh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:52 Krystof [~csr21@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:04:14 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:05:07 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:24 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 15:15:39 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:16:19 pholasek [~pholasek_@2001:67c:1220:c1b0:21e:37ff:fecb:baa0] has joined #lisp 15:21:18 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.225.193] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:22:17 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:22:29 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:24:13 -!- sellout [~Adium@64.134.67.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:25:51 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.123] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:30:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 15:32:11 -!- pnq [~nick@AC834279.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:46 My initial expectation was that querying STREAMP on a string with a fill-pointer would return T. It doesn't. Why not? 15:35:55 (read string-with-fill-pointer) ==> error. 15:36:15 mon_key: a string with a fill pointer is not a stream. 15:36:20 (write 'x string-with-fill-pointer) ==> error. 15:36:25 mon_key: why did you expect it to be? 15:36:33 Because of format. 15:36:33 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:36:44 becase (info "(ansicl)format"), (info "(ansicl)Formatted Output") 15:36:51 pjb: good call 15:37:01 But format also takes T and NIL and you don't expect them to be streams. 15:37:06 mon_key: the first argument to format is not specified to be a stream, though. 15:37:09 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:10 nor even a stream designator! 15:38:09 pjb: Was reading over Keene this morning and noticed on pg 183 the macro `standardize-output-stream-var' and wanted to generalize it for strings w/ fill pointers as well... 15:39:30 Now am thinking this is not such a good idea :( 15:40:49 -!- Spion__ [~spion@77.29.248.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:43:29 codelurker [~codelurke@66.71.230.192] has joined #lisp 15:44:42 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@66.71.230.192] has quit [Client Quit] 15:45:43 codelurker [~codelurke@66.71.230.192] has joined #lisp 15:47:49 mephisto [~mephisto@bas1-toronto07-1176122860.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:47:58 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212.198.126.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:49:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:59:50 Intensity [XvVBOllrRe@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 15:59:50 Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:59:57 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:36 Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:02:48 And then there is also this interesting comment in the "fill-pointer streams" section of SBCL's sbcl/src/code/stream.lisp: "Fill pointer STRING-OUTPUT-STREAMs are not explicitly mentioned in the CLM, but they are required for the implementation of WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING." 16:04:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.225.193] has joined #lisp 16:05:09 -!- Intensity [XvVBOllrRe@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:09 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 16:07:44 xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has joined #lisp 16:11:02 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:06 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-uzuhfmrxinxodlxs] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:13:32 -!- mephisto [~mephisto@bas1-toronto07-1176122860.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:01 cpc26 [~cpc26@66.87.6.229] has joined #lisp 16:15:39 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:16:29 hmm. How do file-length and gray streams fit together? 16:16:31 petter` [~user@217.118.44.36] has joined #lisp 16:17:17 I'm guessing "not at all" on pretty much any Lisp. 16:17:43 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 16:20:50 Saturnation [~dsouth@72.92.159.73] has joined #lisp 16:20:57 -!- Saturnation [~dsouth@72.92.159.73] has quit [Client Quit] 16:21:18 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.225.193] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 16:21:42 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:03 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 16:22:45 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726]] 16:23:05 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326229.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:05 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p5B327347.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:24:37 srcerer [~chatzilla@63.196.107.132] has joined #lisp 16:26:08 milanj [~milanj_@212.200.217.107] has joined #lisp 16:26:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:27:18 Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:29:57 -!- k9quaint_ [~quaint@c-98-207-104-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:30:08 -!- akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:30:13 k9quaint_ [~quaint@c-98-207-104-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 16:30:31 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:30:41 Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:31:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 16:33:03 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:33:43 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has joined #lisp 16:35:00 Xach: still there? 16:35:42 Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:36:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 16:36:41 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36:42 Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:37:14 -!- pholasek [~pholasek_@2001:67c:1220:c1b0:21e:37ff:fecb:baa0] has quit [Quit: pholasek] 16:37:53 tcr1: hi! 16:38:15 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:39:46 *Xach* agonizes with suspense 16:42:26 akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:47 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:44:10 whut. 16:44:18 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:44:24 Xach: I replied 16:44:28 (ecase nil (nil t)) ; is this supposed to error? 16:44:48 antifuchs: yes! 16:44:50 hmm, should that be (nil) instead 16:44:58 ahhh. it all makes sense 16:44:59 ITYM (ecase nil ((nil) t)) 16:44:59 (ecase nil ((nil) t)) 16:44:59 16:45:02 need moar caffeine 16:45:05 (ecase (nil) ...) makes no sense 16:46:30 tcr1: I am ready to debug! FYI, there is no trouble with cl-interpol's readtable installation 16:46:45 Hm 16:47:07 interpol installs a dispatch macro character right? 16:47:10 Yes 16:47:12 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:47:16 pnq [~nick@bohrium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 16:47:48 That's an interesting insight. I would have proceeded by first getting Slime out of the loop 16:47:58 tcr1: Ok, I will try that. 16:48:30 rootzlevel [~hpd@188-195-186-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:49:03 on an unrelated issue, https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues#issue/148 16:49:37 tcr1: When slime is not involved, no problem 16:52:00 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0022e9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:11 Funny that it works for interpol then 16:52:32 sure you're doing *exactly* the same (starting from a fresh inferior lisp)? 16:53:02 tcr1: I'll script it to make sure, one moment. 16:53:11 orivej [~orivej@host-44-146-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 16:55:08 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:00 Bronsa [~brace@host103-183-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:57:03 HG` [~HG@dslb-084-061-245-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:39 -!- oGMo_ is now known as oGMo 16:59:15 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 17:02:33 ntiy [~ntiy@163.238.130.5] has joined #lisp 17:03:41 -!- pnq [~nick@bohrium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:05:01 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:05:22 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:06:41 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:08:23 anyone familiar with auctex? would questions about it match this channel? 17:08:30 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has joined #lisp 17:08:32 Nope, see #emacs 17:09:33 already tried it. thanks though 17:10:02 *they sent me here from #latex 17:10:35 tcr1: yes, exactly the same steps, in the CLI the final get-macro-character call returns the expected clsql function, in the slime repl it does not. 17:11:13 it is not an issue in a file - i get the expected results in a file for both slime and non-slime 17:11:20 the issue crops up only in the repl 17:11:21 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:15:27 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-65.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:06 can you paste the dribbles? (Also include a *readtable*, and a swank::*readtable-alist* at the final point) 17:16:39 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-72.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:16:47 will do 17:16:51 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-65-62.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 17:17:42 the way in-readtable frobs swank::*readtable-alist* looks suspicious, I wonder what I was thinking 17:19:47 http://paste.lisp.org/display/121255 17:20:33 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-124-175.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:36 tcr1: the final value of *readtable* is different in the cli, it shows the clsql readtable instead 17:21:10 "Public domain Lisp-based web servers include CL-HTTP, architected by John Mallery at the MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory." Maybe Lispworks should update http://www.lispworks.com/products/myths_and_legends.html a bit. 17:22:40 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-72.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:23:38 you never know if these newfangled servers will catch on 17:24:03 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:07 nominolo [~nominolo@dhcp298F.kent.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:25:11 -!- astoon [~astoon@nat121-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:27:40 Xach: What if you change the pushnew in %frob-swank-readtable-alist to (setf (alexandria:assoc-value (symbol-value readtable-alist) (package-name package) :test #'string=) readtable)? 17:27:49 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:28:59 -!- Krystof [~csr21@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:29:23 when a user supplies me with a lambda function which calls a function foo, can I shadow that function foo so that when the lambda function calls foo, it calls the new foo? 17:29:51 not really 17:30:03 tcr1: that was an answer to me, right? 17:30:12 yeah 17:30:37 now I'm wondering if I should hack around it with a special variable, or just use two names 17:30:51 what's the specific case? 17:31:19 is FOO something you control? 17:31:38 tcr1: I can hack around it, it's no problem. I'm building a tiny maprecude framework and I wanted to use produce both in the map stage and in the reduce stage to send back data. 17:32:09 tcr1: yes, I know an easy workaround, but still wondering if I *should* do it or not... perhaps it's the wrong semantics 17:32:49 you could pass a keyword to produce indicating the stage 17:32:54 tcr1: Sorry, I can't quite patch what you wrote on IRC into the form in the file. Can you be more explicit? 17:33:02 pnq [~nick@bohrium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 17:33:10 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.143.20] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224]] 17:33:21 Xach: sure wait 17:35:32 tcr1: well actually, I can do better! 17:35:32 -!- js0000 [~js@67.208.188.68] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:35:52 tcr1: I could just put the function that needs to be called in a special variable and have foo call that function... 17:36:49 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/121255 17:37:07 tcr1: still I wonder if that'd be the preferred interface 17:38:56 tcr1: success 17:39:12 (though alexandria is not currently a dependency of named-readtables) 17:39:42 madnificent: or require them to bind a restart. ;-) 17:40:11 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:41:58 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 17:43:14 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:46:41 -!- pnq [~nick@bohrium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:48 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:47:14 yay. sub-4 minute build! 17:47:32 gigamonkey: hmmm, doesn't seem cleaner to me 17:47:33 pnq [~nick@206.21.94.107] has joined #lisp 17:47:45 gigamonkey: then I'd be better off with giving them two functions, I think 17:48:25 slyrus_: what kind of hardware? 17:48:47 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-72.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:48:56 my daughter and I built a new box together -- sandy bridge i5 17:49:02 madnificent: I'm barely following what you're actually trying to do. But if you want something like a dynamically bound function, you can use RESTART-BIND and INVOKE-RESTART. 17:50:24 gigamonkey: yes, that'd be an option as well, indeed. 17:50:46 gigamonkey: btw, you're chapter on conditions and restarts was really well. It's the one I went back to the most afterwards, I think. 17:50:54 -!- pnq [~nick@206.21.94.107] has quit [Client Quit] 17:51:20 pnq [~nick@bohrium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 17:53:15 sellout [~Adium@64.134.67.6] has joined #lisp 17:53:47 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:54:17 hi sellout :) 17:55:05 fe[nl]ix: Hey :) How's it going? 17:55:13 How was Budapest? 17:55:21 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 17:55:43 hot 17:58:22 tcr1: Would you like a new patch with the addition of alexandria, the changes to defreadtable, and %frob-swank-readtable-alist? 18:00:18 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:01:10 froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:20 silenius [~silenus@p549476C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:03 Xach: I think it should look a bit different, using assoc-value was just the quickest way to test a hypothesis 18:05:44 tcr1: Ok. What would you like me to send? (Also, sorry for not patching the docs - I'm not sure how to match the prose.) 18:05:58 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:24 I will describe in a mail 18:06:47 Ok, thanks. 18:09:12 Or maybe I will do it myself, it includes signalling a style-warning and I have to think about what exactly to make it say 18:09:17 just send the :initform patch 18:10:08 let me think about your comment re. its implementation 18:10:39 gigamonkey: and sorry, you're?! you're?! they should've shot me at my first English class for writing such rubbish when I'm not paying attention. Your chapter on conditions and restarts was really good... 18:11:16 Xach: what about reader-macro-conflicts by the mege-readtables-into that :initform expands to? 18:11:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:12:39 Hmm, I'm not sure. 18:12:40 -!- silenius [~silenus@p549476C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:56 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-wfracehrslrjtaat] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:13:03 Maybe the destructuring-case clause should be (:initform form &key fuze), or perhaps it should be :merge-from-form and :fuzef-from-form 18:13:18 I hadn't thought about this as anything other than an easy way to turn legacy read-macro-making projects work with named-readtables. 18:13:30 "to make legacy..." rather. 18:14:38 sure :-) it's my experience it's often astoundingly hard to get from "need this for X" to something with complete semantics fitting everything else 18:15:19 which just makes you appreciate CLHS and makes you understand why it took many highly brilliant people years 18:15:56 madnificent: No worries. I constantly mess up apostrophes despite having a perfectly clear understanding of when they should be used. So, apparently, did John Steinbeck so I don't feel too badly about it. 18:16:39 tcr1: though, to be fair, many of those years were not spent on getting everything just right. 18:16:56 Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:17:13 At least one of them was spent arguing about whether certain names of some of those highly brilliant people should be removed from the credits page or not. 18:17:17 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:17:56 Yeah I'm not counting to 1994 18:18:15 L1SP [~user@166.61.207.227] has joined #lisp 18:18:21 astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-35-86.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 18:19:14 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:54 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-64-191-95.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:23:38 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:25:05 -!- urs_ [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 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19:44:49 Oh yeah, now I know what I actually meant to ask last time: A good compiler should be able to treat (let ((my-var (the my-type my-form))) my-body) the same as (let ((my-var my-form)) (declare (type my-type my-var)) body) provided that my-var is provably never assigned to in body, right? 19:46:00 That would be a pretty nice optimization for setf-expanders subform vars. 19:46:21 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:47:22 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-50-194.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:41 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:50:52 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:52:23 ASau [~user@95-26-159-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:52:28 Hexstream: If my-var isn't used in the body, then does it matter? Except for side-effects in my-form, the compiler could delete my-var. 19:52:31 tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-122-123.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:53 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has left #lisp 19:52:57 rtoym: It might be read repeatedly, just not assigned to. 19:56:46 Oops. I missed the assigned to part. But the compiler should know that my-var has the type my-type because of the THE form. 19:58:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-65-62.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:01:02 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.94.205] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 20:01:23 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:02:49 wzergw [~hynek@ip-62-245-66-12.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 20:03:10 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:27 lanthan [~ze@p54B7D769.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:02 -!- Landr [~user@78-23-213-22.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:25 codelurker [~codelurke@66.71.230.192] has joined #lisp 20:04:53 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7D769.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:05:55 lanthan [~ze@p54B7D769.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:17 thomas_ [~thomas@c-69-136-176-250.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:28 coi rodo 20:09:32 -!- thomas_ is now known as Wolvenreign 20:10:21 Which means "Hello everyone", in Lojban. 20:10:30 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-167-241.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:54 I'm going to occupy this channel while I study Common LISP. Hope you'll all bear with me. ^_^ 20:11:11 basho___ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-235-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:14 feel free to ask about stuff (: 20:11:22 we do like to keep discussion on-topic, though 20:11:25 Lisp stuff. LISP stuff is too old. 20:11:43 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:49 haha, sometimes it isn't (: 20:12:05 It'll be my first programming language. It was recommended that I study it first, since supposedly it grants those who know it a deep understanding of programming. 20:12:10 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-166-37.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:28 That was what one of my friends from the #lojban channel said, anyway... 20:12:33 maybe. I don't think lisp holds the key to any uber-secret. 20:12:41 but it's a very cool language nevertheless (: 20:12:52 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:13:11 that may once have been true when people were still mucking about in assembly 20:13:15 Is there a particular editor anyone would recommend under Ubuntu? I want to get all my tools straight before I start. 20:13:25 Emacs with Slime 20:13:28 and paredit 20:13:37 Thanks, Stassats. 20:13:39 definitely emacs and slime. 20:13:49 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-010-025.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:13:52 You too, anti. =D 20:14:02 also, I recommend you get slime and your common lisp implementation (sbcl) from the web, and use quicklisp for all libraries 20:14:29 ubuntu uses a package distribution mechanism that causes outdated packages and lets old bugs live forever. 20:14:55 actually, get slime via quicklisp, http://quicklisp.org will tell you how 20:15:09 Hmm. Thinking a little about eval a bit. lets say I have a text file I'm parsing, and want to create my own DSL. Lets assume that the contents may be as simple as "[[FOO]]", and I have a function, (defun foo () (format t "here")). Using cl-ppcre, I can get the FOO out of the string, but executing it seems a bit more difficult. One thing I read was using eval, so wrapping it in parens, and eval-ing it. Is there a better solution? 20:15:15 is this a good read about filenames (if anyone knew it existed) http://cybertiggyr.com/gene/pathnames-0/pathnames-0.html 20:15:29 TDT: (funcall (find-symbol "FOO")) 20:15:44 incf Xach 20:15:50 i'd assume that using regexps for parsing is a poor way 20:15:51 madnificent: gene "michael" stover generally wrote inaccurate and ugly Common Lisp. 20:15:53 Xach: or (find-symbol (string '#:foo)) (-: 20:15:54 Xach: Much more simple, thanks, could have swore I've done this sometime in the past. Thanks! 20:16:10 Thanks again, anti. 20:16:12 TDT: of course, find-symbol might return nil, so it's not that simple. but EVAL is not needed. 20:16:16 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:16:24 (just to appease the "modern" interpretation of case handling) 20:16:27 xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has joined #lisp 20:16:30 Or maybe I should call you Auntie Fuchs. =P 20:16:34 awww 20:16:36 TDT: any mechanism that maps a string to some function name or object could be used. 20:16:38 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 20:16:39 Xach: thanks! Could you, perhaps, advise me another work about pathnames and files and such? 20:16:46 CLHS 20:16:51 I do not knit socks nor make pickles 20:16:51 madnificent: practical common lisp has good info. 20:17:21 I wanted a different read than the PCL, but yes... I could just read it again to freshen up my mind 20:17:26 Xach: *nod* , that helps, thanks again. 20:17:54 stassats: and yes, but pathnames in lisp are fairly complex imho. I'd like something less generic than the CLHS 20:18:55 but you're a grown-up! you should have no problem perusing clhs 20:19:53 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 20:20:07 stassats: Eric Naggum would hate me right now, I'm choosing the option which is the easiest on my brain. 20:20:21 Also for spelling his name wrong. 20:20:39 Y'know...the number one problem I've faced in trying to learn programming, and indeed doing many of the things I've tried to undertake in the past....is that I just can't seem to concentrate when I'm by myself. 20:20:49 damn, I'm bad. Sorry Erik Naggum ... :( 20:21:01 *madnificent* hopes there's not another error in there 20:21:05 Ah, sorry. I guess that's off topic. 20:21:12 Wolvenreign: buy a rubber duck 20:21:27 LMAO 20:21:31 =P 20:22:05 Landr [~user@78-23-213-22.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 20:22:47 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:17 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:24:17 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:24:17 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:24:21 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:26:40 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 20:28:07 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 20:28:37 -!- ltriant_ [~ltriant@124-168-219-110.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 20:28:53 hello. I'm very interested in the field of AI, and I noticed that many big shots in this field use lisp. I basicly know what lisp is about, but still I wonder why so many AI programmers use this? 20:29:06 and whether I should learn that language completly 20:29:15 naeg: you wrote "lisp", but I think you meant "java" 20:29:31 Xach: I'm sure I didn't mean java :P 20:29:50 Common Lisp is the topic of this channel, and it's a fine programming language for doing anything, not just AI. 20:30:02 yeah of course 20:30:09 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:30:11 Xach: I didn't think he implied that 20:30:23 but stil I'm wondering whether it's still often used in the field of AI 20:30:31 naeg: That is not my impression. 20:30:32 >Since its inception, Lisp was closely connected with the artificial intelligence research community, especially on PDP-10[6] systems. Lisp was used as the implementation of the programming language Micro Planner which was used in the famous AI system SHRDLU. In the 1970s, as AI research spawned commercial offshoots, the performance of existing Lisp systems became a growing issue.[citation needed] 20:30:56 yeah SHRDLU and STUDENT 20:31:12 i remember student mentioned somewhere... related to plato? 20:31:19 and e.g. peter norvig uses lisp too (http://norvig.com/) 20:31:30 used lisp. now he uses python. 20:31:33 ah no 20:31:39 naeg: lisp allows you to make fairly complicated structures, allowing you to mold the language into something that helps your strain of thought. For complicated problems, that helps a lot. But lisp isn't as widely used as it once was. It has been erroneously blamed during the AI winter, which is probably what you read most about. 20:31:57 Xach: I'm already a python programmer ;) 20:31:59 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:32:00 "Please don't assume Lisp is only useful for Animation and Graphics, AI, Bioinformatics, B2B and E-Commerce, Data Mining, EDA/Semiconductor applications, Expert Systems, Finance, Intelligent Agents, Knowledge Management, Mechanical CAD, Modeling and Simulation, Natural Language, Optimization, Research, Risk Analysis, Scheduling, Telecom, and Web Authoring just because these are the only things they happened to list." 20:32:10 <_death> naeg: perhaps you will be interested in reading about John McCarthy, the man who is behind both Lisp and the term "AI" 20:32:15 Landr: it's designed to solves algebra word problems 20:32:26 naeg: if you get good at AI after using lisp, it's because lisp just makes you awesome at everything! 20:32:32 a train leaves boston at 63 mph... 20:32:35 kpreid [~kpreid@Eider.price.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 20:32:36 Xach: :D 20:33:26 well, lisp makes it possible to write self-modifying code more easily, perhaps? 20:33:49 I think prolog does so too 20:34:09 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 20:34:25 especially because it has defniite clause grammars etc 20:34:49 on lisp talks about prolog at some chapter i haven't read yet i think 20:35:51 I personally think that lisp is good because it does roughly everything other languages do in terms of expressivity and then adds a lot of stuff to it. It doesn't limit you to thinking in one particular pattern. You, the programmer, chooses the pattern and then weaves it together with all other patterns you find handy. 20:35:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:36:36 Landr: didn't get that one? 20:36:56 ? 20:37:23 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C7F59.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:28 naeg: On Lisp is a pre-Common Lisp book by Paul Graham. 20:37:45 available for free, even! 20:37:47 http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisp.html 20:38:05 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-110-4.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: .] 20:38:24 heard of him already 20:38:42 ah yeah, because of arc 20:39:19 He introduced a lot of people to Lisp through his essays (especially "Beating the Averages" I think). 20:41:43 ljosa [~ljosa@pool-173-48-201-170.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:40 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:47:03 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.15/2009101909]] 20:47:07 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 20:47:58 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:49:07 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host103-183-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:51:16 -!- wzergw [~hynek@ip-62-245-66-12.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:52:17 -!- basho___ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-235-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:20 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 21:00:26 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:00:43 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 21:01:16 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-2-218.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:01:59 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:02:56 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 21:02:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 21:02:56 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:03:02 esmhammer [~somebody@69.90.91.35] has joined #lisp 21:04:15 holy moly 21:04:20 emacs is incredible 21:04:38 *Landr* regrets not biting through and learning it earlier 21:05:32 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 21:06:32 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:08:31 -!- ldh [~ldh@static-217-37.vpn.wisc.edu] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 21:10:21 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:10:55 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:12:50 -!- sellout [~Adium@64.134.67.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:13:59 Landr: but it default keyboard shortcuts are horrible 21:14:59 well, i haven't reached the part yet where I learned to change them 21:15:36 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has left #lisp 21:16:34 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:00 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.225] has joined #lisp 21:17:06 Intensity [wY7TagI7Sg@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 21:19:16 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:11 EarlGray: most default key bindings are good. 21:20:38 You only have to understand the logic behind. 21:20:44 *stassats* likes default bindings so that he's not screwed when his config isn't around 21:21:57 wonbyte [~wonbyte@dynamic-acs-24-144-212-251.zoominternet.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:52 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-233-177-94.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:56 how often does that happen? 21:23:12 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:23 whenever i don't want to wait for it to load and use -Q 21:23:36 ,server 21:23:43 wrong channel ;-) 21:24:07 that assumes i had it already started, but indeed, it's offtopicish 21:26:25 Oabl [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:40 -!- esmhammer [~somebody@69.90.91.35] has left #lisp 21:26:55 Guest51323 [~Khisanth@pool-96-250-29-10.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:13 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:27:52 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:29:48 macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.210.115] has joined #lisp 21:33:14 -!- wonbyte [~wonbyte@dynamic-acs-24-144-212-251.zoominternet.net] has left #lisp 21:33:27 -!- ljosa [~ljosa@pool-173-48-201-170.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ljosa] 21:35:32 -!- Guest51323 is now known as Khisanth 21:39:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-009.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:40:46 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-65-62.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 21:41:25 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2CD7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:59 okmijnoob [~user@195.217.72-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:13 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:58 -!- okmijnoob [~user@195.217.72-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:26 -!- antgreen` [~user@12.232.236.137] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:32 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-173648.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:17 pjb: FWIW, I have Guy Steele on record saying that as the guy who made up many of the original Emacs key bindings, that they are kind of terrible. 21:52:10 gigamonkey: well, they made sense for the keyboards that were used on ITS 21:52:19 "I was trying to get consensus on what the content ought to be and then I drew on their designs and tried to organize the actual choice of key-bindings so as to make them a little more regular and a little more mnemonic. And not being a human-factors guy at all, I didnt think at all about convenience for touch typists. I was principally concerned with mnemonic value. And so thats why Meta-C and Meta-L and Meta-U stand for c 21:52:19 and lowercase and uppercase." 21:52:59 xan_ [~xan@173-164-128-209-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:21 kaek [~b@c-c3cae253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:53:46 heh 21:54:01 I was refering more to the rather long list of bucky bits :) 21:54:39 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:55:43 (though windows keyboards have most of less known ITS/LispM-related bucky bits) 21:56:55 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:56:59 -!- Hermanski [~b@c-c3cae253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:58:21 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:01:31 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:03:19 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:56 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212.200.217.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:48 Pirxs [~Pirx@195.225.69.9] has joined #lisp 22:08:37 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@190.64.191.95] has quit [Quit: quit] 22:11:13 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:24 -!- astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-35-86.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:18:09 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-233-177-94.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: bounce] 22:18:22 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-233-177-94.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:01 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:25:36 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:08 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B0231A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 22:27:10 hello Fare :) 22:28:30 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-65-62.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 22:28:53 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-133-208.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:29:41 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@66.87.6.229] has left #lisp 22:33:29 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.192.152] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 22:34:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:34:42 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 22:35:59 LiamH: I'm getting a backtrace that seems to die in FSBV code and I was wondering if you could tell me what you think. Have a moment? 22:36:13 OK, paste 22:36:21 http://paste.lisp.org/display/121262 22:37:49 quodlibetor [~user@rrcs-50-74-0-42.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:02 fe[nl]ix, how was Hamburg? 22:39:10 Ethan S tells me you had drinks together 22:39:36 LiamH: And a little more of the backtrace just in case it helps: http://paste.lisp.org/display/121262#1 22:40:03 psilord helped me create a make-less backend for xcvb. 22:40:14 Fare: it was nice, although the level of the talks was lower than usual 22:40:26 yeah. I looked at the program and decided not to go 22:40:28 redline6`: problem in (setf cffi::foreign-struct-slot-value) 22:40:44 Or I should say with 22:41:20 Fare: why, oh, why ? I wonder when I'll get to meet you 22:41:24 LiamH: Really? Oh. Well, I suppose I'll bug them then. Thanks. Anything in particular I should tell them/mention? 22:41:28 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:41:36 Fare: maybe @ECLM in Amsterdam ? 22:41:37 LiamH: Or should that paste be enough? 22:41:41 redline6`: well, it says that method doesn't exist. 22:42:28 redline6`: and the first argument is a list, which I'm going to guess is not the right thing for a foreign struct 22:42:49 redline6`: not necessarily a cffi problem, could be something in the fsbv expansion 22:42:51 -!- pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:03 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-69-136-131-95.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:21 LiamH: Right. Thanks. I had sort of suspected that passing a struct by value that contained other structs might be hitting corner cases in FSBV. 22:43:41 fe[nl]ix, maybe 22:43:55 redline6`: It *should* work, but it's untested I think. 22:44:25 LiamH: Gotcha. Thanks again. 22:45:32 reline6`: If you're on the GSLL mailing list email the whole thing. I would like to take a look at it again when I get back to the FSBV to CFFI porting project, which will happen any year now. 22:45:38 redline6` 22:47:29 Good morning everyone! 22:47:52 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 22:47:52 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 22:47:52 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 22:48:10 LiamH: I'm not on the mailing list but I'll send you an email or leave a note on your blog or something. :) 22:48:19 OK 22:48:47 Sorry I don't have a separate mailing list for FSBV. 22:50:00 Fare: lol, I can't quite remember ethan's face 22:50:11 rme [~rme@209.117.33.69] has joined #lisp 22:50:40 I remember alec, martin, james and todd's :) 22:50:58 how much did you drink? 22:51:40 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:46 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:52:23 stassats: just one alsterwasser that evening 22:52:43 but I saw them the whole conference, I should remember him :D 22:54:38 Nshag [user@88.123.84.8] has joined #lisp 22:54:58 -!- Pirxs [~Pirx@195.225.69.9] has quit [] 22:55:17 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:55:31 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:59:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-69-136-131-95.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:03:43 realitygrill [~realitygr@71.156.15.164] has joined #lisp 23:07:40 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-64-191-95.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 23:08:13 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 23:09:19 -!- Nshag [user@88.123.84.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:10:07 seangrove [~user@204-15-2-178-static.ipnetworksinc.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:54 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:12 -!- ntiy [~ntiy@163.238.130.5] has quit [Quit: ntiy] 23:19:22 sylecn [~sylecn@wireless-128-62-168-18.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 23:26:20 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-64-191-95.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: quit] 23:29:27 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:30:50 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:31:05 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 23:31:53 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:32:34 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 23:35:04 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:35:28 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 23:36:55 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:40:11 Ah, a productive day of sending off comments to CQ writers that will probably make them cry. 23:42:28 CQ? 23:42:28 cq? 23:42:33 Code Quarterly. 23:42:40 Ah! 23:42:41 -!- Tordek [~tordek@april-fools/yetanotherhardetest/tordek] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:42:59 *sellout* wants to submit something, but is afraid that gigamonkey might say no. I'm not sure I could handle being rejected like that. 23:43:23 I don't say, "no". I accept (almost) everything and then send you comments that make you cry. 23:43:28 :D 23:43:46 Good, then I'll submit. 23:43:52 Now, to write an article  23:44:00 Excellent. I look forward to your tears. >:-} 23:44:07 Er, I mean your article. 23:45:48 so when will be the first issue? 23:46:03 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:46:38 Landr: at this point I'm planning to start rolling articles out on the web as they're ready and then do an issue whenever I get enough to do so. 23:47:48 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:48:00 *Landr* 'd be very interested in computer history articles 23:48:07 Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #lisp 23:48:07 -!- Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has quit [Changing host] 23:48:07 Tordek [~tordek@april-fools/yetanotherhardetest/tordek] has joined #lisp 23:48:18 just browsing through old man pages and forgotten programs of yore is thrilling 23:48:49 one day computer archaeology will be a real field of study 23:49:09 -!- quodlibetor [~user@rrcs-50-74-0-42.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:03 Yeah. I spent some time for one of these articles digging into how von Neumann's IAS machine worked. 23:50:17 It's crazy how primitive those first machines were. 23:50:19 'code quarterly'? 23:50:29 Odin-: http://www.codequarterly.com/ 23:50:51 now would really be the time to start interviewing old gurus and hackers 23:51:06 Landr: well, I've done some of that, as you may know. 23:51:11 nope :> 23:51:12 gigamonkey: Hm. 23:51:20 Landr: http://www.codersatwork.com/ 23:52:02 gigamonkey: This will sound like a question out of the blue, but ... how much do you know about the WikiLeaks saga? 23:52:26 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.13.43] has joined #lisp 23:52:28 -!- seangrove [~user@204-15-2-178-static.ipnetworksinc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:52:56 Oabl_ [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:03 -!- Oabl [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:53:09 -!- Oabl_ is now known as Oabl 23:53:31 Odin-: very little. 23:54:23 gigamonkey: 'k. Because I was thinking whether I should point some of the people behind the tech structure there at this... 23:54:42 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:55:19 gah, 70 years of real computers and already the field is immense 23:55:45 Computer history is a horribly under-researched topic, though. 23:56:01 <-- Historian with an interest in computers. 23:56:16 -!- pnq [~nick@bohrium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:56:35 Anyone know what sxhash's faster on SBCL simple-strings or simple-bit-vectors? 23:56:40 <- philosopher with an interest in The Whole Universe™ 23:57:24 sadly, a real research group on computer history would have to be in america 23:57:37 -!- Younder [~john@224.13.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:57:53 Landr: why? 23:58:30 Younder [~john@224.13.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 23:58:32 because most of the history is there :p and it'd be annoying to keep flying over to interview people and visit places 23:58:56 software history maybe 23:58:57 A lot of it is, yes ... but there's still a bunch of interesting stuff elsewhere. 23:59:41 oh, that'd be an interesting story... "computing history if the soviet union won/did most of the discoveries" 23:59:58 we german did :D *hides*