00:00:17 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:00:27 I'd like to have something like M-x man 00:01:18 danlentz: Thanks. It seems there isn't one... :( 00:01:30 it can be handled by "~[...~]", though 00:01:31 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:01:48 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-235-180.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:02:37 it is strange that there is a directive for -ies, but not one for -es 00:02:51 I'm not used to omissions in CL ;) 00:05:40 huangho: format to me seems unnessesarly unfriendly 00:07:15 but i am assured that it all makes sense 00:07:35 so i take that on faith for the time being 00:08:05 ASau: I downloaded the clhs and put it under localhost/apache 00:08:12 I mean localhost/clhs 00:08:24 with apache 00:12:56 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:16:11 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 00:17:37 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:17:41 are there legal issues with having / using the clhs in chm format? I forget even where i got it from. (not that i am admitting to having one) 00:18:04 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:18:17 danlentz: the clhs is a copyrighted document with specific permissions granted. 00:18:30 danlentz: the dpans3 documents are in murkier status, i think. 00:19:22 Ufasoft common lisp distributed it i think -- it was (if i can recall correctly) an early attempt at cmucl port to windows 00:20:04 its the xanalys v7 hyperspec in chm help format 00:21:45 DiaitaDoc [~DiaitaDoc@bas1-ottawa01-1176119748.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:21:46 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.251.58.70] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:22:25 sounds dubious to me. 00:22:47 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:22:59 xach: i dont see it referred to often (probably bad licensing issues) but i sometimes prefer the franz edition of the hyperspec 00:23:31 it at least has a more reasonable uri namespace 00:24:07 although its in an ancient html 3.2 dialect 00:26:17 -!- DiaitaDoc [~DiaitaDoc@bas1-ottawa01-1176119748.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 00:26:26 chtml cant quite grok it 00:26:48 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 00:27:12 billitch [~billitch@78.251.58.70] has joined #lisp 00:28:34 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 00:30:02 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:20 xach: where is your current direction with quicklisp -- stabilizing existing functionality or adding new? 00:32:49 i was looking at the preference facility but not getting it 00:33:53 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:35:04 -!- gst [~gst@w-albuq-9-12.7cities.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 00:40:41 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:41:11 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:24 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-140-205.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:42:27 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-xpmjzkzcxomxsiym] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:42:32 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-owrduznaljysqxvt] has joined #lisp 00:43:06 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has joined #lisp 00:43:06 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 00:43:06 I have a set of things I'm trying to complete. 00:43:06 if i am understanding corerectly it is a mechanism to select one system "release" in preference to another 00:43:06 danlentz: it works on a gross or fine level. 00:43:06 xach: why did you choose the name "system" for quicklisp systems despite the ambiguity it can lead to? 00:43:06 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:43:06 danlentz: It's consistent with CL usage of the term. 00:43:06 y not complaining by any means just seeking to understand 00:43:06 I guess it could be considered a proxy for a real system. 00:43:06 danlentz: In most cases the answer will be something like "It was the first thing I thought of." 00:43:45 xach: the fact that all this software now works (together even) can't be argued with. But in practice how much work do you have to put in to resolving issues in all of these packages? 00:43:53 danlentz: in the Future, it will be easy to install multiple dists, and the preference mechanism is a way to decide which system is chosen when more than one of the same name is available. 00:44:36 right now there is practically only one dist, so it's a bit moot at the moment 00:45:18 danlentz: I spent a few hours every week reporting bugs and adding new projects 00:45:50 over say other contemporary approaches of cloning the repo 00:47:45 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:50 xach quicklisp really caught on like wildfire though. Unlike anything else I've seen in my (short) common lisp career 00:48:15 I think that's a testament to the amount of abuse suffered under previous mechanisms... 00:49:50 xach: its not overstatement to say its the biggest problem i contenteded with day to day was trying to manage a hideous rats nest of libraries 00:50:51 I would get a comfortable set over time, and try not to disturb the pile. And then every now and then I would set up a new computer and it would be a long time getting back to comfort. 00:50:55 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has joined #lisp 00:50:57 Now it's a couple minutes. 00:52:53 courtesi [~chatzilla@75-150-203-113-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:31 i find that in projects it opens the field up to using a lot of these really excellent libraries because I no longer have to fear the build process 00:53:46 pnq [~nick@ACA26A30.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:53:56 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 00:55:15 -!- Tordek [~tordek@april-fools/yetanotherhardetest/tordek] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:58:09 xach: is there a simple way to install a system from the metadata of a new system in the github repo or does this involve compiling a custom dist locally 00:58:19 -!- courtesi [~chatzilla@75-150-203-113-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 00:58:53 xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has joined #lisp 00:58:55 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:31 danlentz: the easiest thing is to check it out and add its directory to the asdf source registry 01:00:48 quickload will load it. 01:00:58 *Xach* gotta go 01:02:14 Wintermute [~Mococa@186.214.250.108] has joined #lisp 01:03:20 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:03:41 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:50 JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 01:05:50 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.250.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:07:07 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-248-241-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:07:20 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 01:09:29 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:10:03 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 01:10:40 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:13:20 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:16:32 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-31-95.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:16:33 ASau [~user@95-24-140-205.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 01:16:37 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:16:38 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:17:08 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 01:17:10 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 01:17:13 -!- egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:17:15 i cant believe my university cost so much and in return pawned off on me a crap-sandwitch like modula-2 01:17:17 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 01:17:17 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 01:17:52 -!- timchen1a [tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:18:02 timchen1` 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timeout: 240 seconds] 02:24:13 gko [~gko@111.81.81.232] has joined #lisp 02:25:35 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483D722.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:02 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.251.33.136] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:26:36 billitch [~billitch@78.251.33.136] has joined #lisp 02:27:33 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483DE0F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:28:31 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.81.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:29:10 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483D722.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:29:18 gko [~gko@111.81.81.232] has joined #lisp 02:29:52 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483D722.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:27 xan_ [~xan@173-228-64-221.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:29 goddamned sbcl 02:30:44 this is useless, i might as well be talking to a chinese room 02:31:38 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:36:28 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 02:41:16 Landr: I think you mean, "that SBCL is so goddamned amazin!". What seems to be the problem? 02:41:46 its documentation for calling foreign functions is too short and the error log is completely unhelpful 02:44:07 you might get help if you ask for it. 02:44:17 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 02:44:20 Landr: http://paste.lisp.org/ 02:44:54 Landr: Also, if you'd prefer trying http://quicklisp.org/ and using CFFI, more people may have experience with that (and there may be more docs, dunno) than the direct SBCL primitives. 02:44:57 minion: CFFI 02:44:59 CFFI: CFFI, the Common Foreign Function Interface, purports to be a portable foreign function interface (FFI) for Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/CFFI 02:45:41 http://paste.lisp.org/display/121197 02:46:08 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.81.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:46:12 Landr: why are you using alien-funcall? 02:46:44 also, what's flprintc? 02:46:52 the name i give to the function? 02:47:05 what function? 02:47:27 the first style warning tells you that flprintc isn't a (C) function 02:47:27 first i declare the function: its name is "flprintc", it returns an int, and it takes a string for an argument 02:47:37 where is it defined? 02:47:49 ... in a separate c file 02:47:53 which i should link? 02:48:13 you definitely want to load it if you want to call that function. 02:48:30 sb-alien (and most CFFI implementations) work with dynamic libraries. 02:49:03 the second error is because you're using alien-funcall without quoting and what not, when you just want to (flprintc ...) 02:49:17 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 02:49:31 ok, i'll try that... thanks :) 02:50:05 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.251.33.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:50:07 there is a lot of valuable stuff on lisspaste. is there a search function? of a recommended means to download en masse to index locally? 02:54:36 by recommended i mean server-friendly, lisp karma approved, upright citizen way 02:55:42 -!- jrockway_ is now known as jrockway 02:56:57 -!- kennyd 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[~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 08:13:29 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 08:19:34 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:21:38 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:23:15 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:24:04 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:24:49 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.119.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:25:16 -!- atakor [~user@adsl-75-53-122-123.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:25:16 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-115-64-248.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:27:55 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:28:44 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:29:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-206-33.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:29:24 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has joined #lisp 08:32:30 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 08:35:16 I was wondering about coding style in CL... I have a method named ADD, which usually has two arguments, a destination and an object which to add to the destination. However, depending on the specializer, it may have more than two arguments. Is it better to create several methods called, for example, ADD-FOO, or is it wise to add the optional &key argument? 08:36:03 jtza8: &optional ? 08:36:35 slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:38 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-115-64-248.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:41 *jtza8* is checking something... 08:37:47 Do these extra arguments have to do with the destination or the object to be added or something else? 08:38:21 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:40 -!- adeht [void@common.lisp.su] has quit [Quit: death] 08:39:33 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 08:39:35 schme: Doesn' 08:39:38 t 08:39:41 seem to work 08:40:37 splittist: The extra arguments have to do with the object beeing added. 08:42:26 In this case, if I'd add an object as a "listener" to a listenable object, I might optionally specify an event to add the listener to, or, I could deligate that choice to the listening object. 08:42:55 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:43:22 ... hope that made sense. 08:43:46 jtza8: so what's the example of ADD that isn't a listener? 08:45:32 splittist: It may be used by a different class in a different way... for example, if there where a class called BOX, it could use the add method to add something to the box. 08:45:53 -!- ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has quit [Quit: bbl] 08:46:53 jtza8: then I would suggest using different names, otherwise ADD is a confusing pun. ADD-LISTENER vs. ADD-ITEM, for example. 08:47:36 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:47:46 ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has joined #lisp 08:47:49 -!- jdz [~jdz@host218-111-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:48:43 splittist: thanks, it makes sense that add would become confusing in that context. Didn't think of that for some reason. 08:55:09 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754cd0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:19 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 09:00:27 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 09:02:12 wliao [~wliao@114.255.41.115] has joined #lisp 09:02:39 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:02:56 -!- wliao [~wliao@114.255.41.115] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:04:37 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:07:35 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 09:07:44 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:08:37 rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has joined #lisp 09:09:06 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 09:09:31 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-154-94.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:13:25 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 09:20:06 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754cd0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:20 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:26:46 -!- am0c [~am0c@175.253.39.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:28:47 benny [~benny@i577A74A4.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:28:54 -!- JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Quit: Out] 09:31:01 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:06 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.43.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:39:33 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 09:39:36 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 09:40:11 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:41:38 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@75-175-105-247.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:58 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-105-247.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:09 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 09:48:43 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-140-205.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:53 ASau [~user@95-27-203-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:51:30 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 09:55:43 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:55:49 -!- Xach_ is now known as Xach 09:55:54 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-224-158-97.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:55:54 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 09:56:01 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.43.37] has joined #lisp 10:00:28 >Once the C code has been compiled, you can start up Lisp and load it in: `sbcl'. Lisp should start up with its normal prompt. 10:00:39 what does that mean? I don't know how to load the .o file :< 10:01:19 Landr: you need to make it into a shared library 10:01:34 Landr: well, you'd better read the whole thing 10:01:34 welcome to the crazy world of "every OS does it differently" 10:02:08 unless you know how to write a loader by yourself, but then you wouldn't be asking those questions 10:02:10 if you're reading http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Step_002dBy_002dStep-Example-of-the-Foreign-Function-Interface.html, that is 10:02:50 sunwukong [~vukung@t1.iit.bme.hu] has joined #lisp 10:02:55 and you decided not to use cffi? 10:03:17 \o/ I just want to get it done without having to drudge through asdf hell 10:03:31 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:03:49 uhhmm... 10:03:49 there's no asdf hell involved 10:04:14 >check gpg? check gpg? check gpg? 10:04:24 I know, I have to set it up properly, but that'll take time again, etc. 10:04:30 ASDF != ASDF-INSTALL 10:04:33 Landr: that's ASDF-Install, something that isn't advertised in a long time 10:04:40 where have you been this all time? haven't you heard about quicklisp? 10:04:47 minion: tell Landr about quicklisp 10:04:48 Landr: look at quicklisp: Quicklisp aims to make it easy to get started with a rich set of community-developed Common Lisp libraries. http://www.cliki.net/quicklisp 10:05:01 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.61.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:05:06 yes well, s/asdf hell/"installing cffi" 10:05:10 (ql:quickload 'cffi) 10:05:16 and the gpg check is the least problemm with asdf-install 10:06:17 so what bugs me is that I've compiled and loaded the lisp file, compiled & so'd the C file... but I can't get understand that single line 10:06:35 Landr: try reading the next line 10:06:40 and the line after the next line 10:06:54 those sentences aren't supposed to be selfcontained 10:07:06 Once the C code has been compiled, you can start up Lisp and load it in: `sbcl'. 10:07:08 that's all I don't get 10:07:12 everything else I understand 10:07:22 no, you don't! 10:07:48 you have load, load-shared-object-file, but no load-object-file, or load-c-file, or load-compiled-c-file, or HELP 10:08:52 i don't see how you can't follow this guide step by step 10:09:09 it explains _every_ step, you don't even need to think 10:09:17 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 10:09:20 because I'm a retard, obviously 10:09:29 because I don't know how to load a compiled c file 10:09:33 i don't accept lousy excuses 10:09:49 I can't make up a better excuse other than "I don't know how to load a compiled c file" 10:10:07 Landr: that's fine, just read http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Step_002dBy_002dStep-Example-of-the-Foreign-Function-Interface.html and do every thing it says 10:10:20 I did 10:10:20 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-105-247.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:10:23 and I'm stuck at that line 10:10:27 because I don't understand that line 10:10:28 well, read it again 10:10:41 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 10:10:43 you're not supposed to understand it 10:10:46 am I suddenly going to achieve an insight into what command I'm supposed to use? 10:11:20 -!- katesmith_ is now known as katesmith 10:11:23 Landr: you can't load an object file because it's not linked - you need a shared object (in case of ELF systems, an ELF "DYN" object) 10:11:24 well, if you'd read the whole thing, you'd have the insight, but you're fixated on that single line for some reason 10:11:57 Landr: you say "I don't know how to load the .o file", but 20 words after the sentence you quote it says "Within Lisp, load the foreign object file ... `(load-shared-object "test.so")'." 10:13:12 Landr: the introductory words 'Once the C code has been compiled, you can start up Lisp and load it in' refer to the following several paragraphs, not the command `sbcl'. 10:13:18 I tried that 10:13:27 but it's a .o file, not a .so file? 10:13:29 Error opening shared object "test.o": 10:13:29 test.o: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory. 10:13:30 and a couple of lines before that, it says how to create the test.so file 10:14:03 it is _step by step_ 10:14:13 as far as my abilities to read and comprehend english lead me to believe, first I load the .o file, then the compiled lisp file, then the .so file 10:14:28 err, load .o, compile .lisp, load .so, load .fasl 10:14:48 and I can't load .o 10:14:54 your abilities to read and comprehend mislead you 10:15:12 at no point it says that you need to load .o file 10:16:19 Landr: you need to _compile_ _into_ a .so file, ie. use -shared or something like that 10:16:27 flip214: i did do that 10:16:29 or _link_ into a shared object 10:16:42 so you should get a .so file - which you should be able to load 10:16:47 I can't 10:17:01 why? 10:17:03 perhaps your dynamic loader looks only in a few specific directories - try "./xxx.so" or giving the full path 10:18:01 oh GODS 10:18:11 *Landr* gives flip214 the keys to the kingdom of heaven 10:18:43 Pope Flip CCXIV, then. 10:19:21 *flip214* is glad that I didn't choose flip30 10:19:39 flip214: so, is Lisp satanic or not? 10:20:05 depends on the "market" "qualities" offered (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) 10:22:02 -!- acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has left #lisp 10:23:33 sonnym1 [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:23:57 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:28:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 10:28:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:31:04 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:31:41 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:31:56 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:35:32 wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:6001:ae81:12ff:fe34:c30c] has joined #lisp 10:36:13 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:40:15 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:41:42 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.146] has joined #lisp 10:42:41 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-110-4.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:43:24 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 10:45:55 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 10:46:10 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:46:40 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:49:39 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 10:49:41 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:51:26 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has joined #lisp 10:54:08 longfin [~longfin@118.235.148.251] has joined #lisp 10:55:20 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 10:56:21 -!- longfin [~longfin@118.235.148.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:16 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 11:04:04 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025C95.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 11:05:30 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 11:06:29 longfin [~longfin@49.58.24.60] has joined #lisp 11:06:52 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:07:27 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:08:19 Houl [~Miranda@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 11:13:01 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:15:41 jingtao` [~jingtaozf@li94-153.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:17:29 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:17:41 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.43.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:23:25 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:23:50 Landr: If you're still here, then I recommend that you get cffi and read through this: http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/Tutorial.html#Tutorial 11:24:11 I know about cffi 11:24:22 and you use it? 11:24:24 no 11:24:28 why? 11:24:36 because this is now a matter of honour and death! 11:24:46 I refuse to be defeated 11:25:05 once I get it to run I'll probably go to cffi though 11:25:29 Well then, Google is your best buddy. :P 11:25:41 it isn't 11:25:42 now right now it ain't 11:26:09 stassats: It should be... but yeah. 11:27:24 -!- longfin [~longfin@49.58.24.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:28 Landr: find code that uses the sbcl ffi, and I guess you'll be happy. 11:27:30 -!- SidH__ [~SidH_@203.101.61.10] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224]] 11:29:08 Whats a nice way to find if nil or some such exists in a list? 11:30:24 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 11:30:33 (member nil list) 11:30:36 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 11:31:08 (some #'null list) 11:31:11 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D YEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS 11:31:25 (position nil list) 11:31:26 ahhhh, the glorious rush of adrenaline once you get a complex system to work 11:31:54 turns out I was reading it the wrong way all along 11:32:04 >The alien-funcall function is the foreign function call primitive: alien-function is called with the supplied arguments and its C return value is returned as a Lisp value. The alien-function is an arbitrary run-time expression; to refer to a constant function, use extern-alien or a value defined by define-alien-routine. 11:32:15 ... um ... n.m. 11:32:43 what I assumed this meant was "if you don't define your function in-place, you have to do (alien-funcall #name-of-function-here#)" 11:33:04 but it means "if you already declared your function, you don't have to call it explicitly" 11:33:12 phew 11:33:15 *Landr* kicks sbcl 11:33:19 not so tough now are you! 11:33:25 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:47 *jtza8* now understands the ways of #lisp 11:34:05 stassats: thats waht I was looking for :) thanks 11:34:15 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:36:55 Joreji [~thomas@77-167.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:36:55 longfin [~longfin@218.238.111.132] has joined #lisp 11:36:57 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ykyxtdviabwagngm] has left #lisp 11:38:20 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:38:28 jtza8: what ways? 11:39:11 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:39:34 jtza8: sadly, once you reach that level of undersanding we mutate into a form even more incomprehensible 11:39:49 stassats: I understand why people tend to be a bit more "hostile" than on, say, #haskell 11:39:56 longfin_ [~longfin@49.58.24.60] has joined #lisp 11:41:11 -!- longfin [~longfin@218.238.111.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:41:21 and why is that? 11:41:34 Because all those parentheses make one grumpy. 11:41:41 steevy [~steevy@95-89-218-109-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:41:46 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-218-109-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:41:54 i thought because lispers are more smug 11:42:32 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:43:14 Well, if you walk into #python you get a lot of n00bs that ask "simple" questions, where as, on #lisp, the number of noobs to experts seems to be significantly less. 11:43:25 *Landr* is painfully aware of that :P 11:43:37 what I really need is a parrot 11:46:44 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@49.58.24.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:56 Landr: Ah well... all in good time, I suppose. 11:48:00 ... for me too, you know. 11:48:29 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Some days you are the pigeon, other days the statue.] 11:48:42 parrot is in perl6, isn't it? 11:48:55 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.33.152.39] has joined #lisp 11:49:08 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:49:12 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-78-72.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 11:50:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-167.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:50:54 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:50:57 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:01 -!- akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:51:23 no, i meant a talking parrot 11:51:33 usually in the sense of a plush doll or something 11:51:41 and you explain what you're doing to it 11:51:42 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 11:52:02 the idea being that, if you have to explain your thinking/programming so that the parrot can understand it, you usually find what the problem is 11:52:18 that and your coworkers think you're a bit off and tend to avoid you, leading to less disruptions 11:52:50 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:54:28 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:54:41 Landr: and people try to convince you not to use lisp 11:56:20 if a part of programming becomes too easy or repetitive it's a job best left to a program 11:56:31 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:56:49 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 11:57:10 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:58:35 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:58:41 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:48 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:59:57 what is the recommended way to install packages these days? 12:00:36 quicklisp, apparently 12:00:36 xale: quicklisp 12:00:48 minion: tell xale about quicklisp 12:00:49 xale: please look at quicklisp: Quicklisp aims to make it easy to get started with a rich set of community-developed Common Lisp libraries. http://www.cliki.net/quicklisp 12:00:54 if by 'package' you mean 'system' 12:03:23 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 12:05:29 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 12:07:31 Joreji [~thomas@77-167.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:07:51 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:08:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.194.110.255] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 12:08:21 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110323131629]] 12:10:12 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 12:12:29 help! http://paste.lisp.org/display/121208 12:13:16 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Quit: McMAGIC--] 12:13:24 xale: using clisp? 12:13:27 yes. 12:13:32 xale: uffi does not work on clisp. 12:14:14 xale: clisp comes with its own terminal interaction routines, if you're interested in using clisp for that sort of things. 12:14:14 Xach: does CFFI work? 12:14:36 xale: there's also another library called cl-charms that is like cl-curses, but it uses cffi, which works on clisp. 12:14:43 p_l|back1p: yes 12:14:46 There's cl-charms (I think) 12:14:58 xale: you can also try quickloading cffi, then loading cffi-uffi or something like that 12:15:22 personally, I avoid loading UFFI whenever possible 12:15:52 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:16:33 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:16:58 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:17:01 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-78-72.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:17:50 "CFFI requires CLISP compiled with dynamic FFI support." 12:18:32 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 12:18:32 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 12:18:32 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:18:35 xale: recompile clisp with that option 12:18:36 did you install clisp from a package? 12:18:48 (or use another implementation) 12:19:01 xale: what OS/architectur? 12:19:25 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 12:20:15 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 12:22:15 amd64 on darwin. and it does not have such options. also, for some reason it's compiled as an i386 binary. 12:22:31 xale: get CCL 12:23:11 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:23:27 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-235-180.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:23:38 ok. 12:25:04 xale: CCL's main target is OSX, and in case of x86, it works better on amd64 than on x86 12:26:29 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:26:52 since huchentoot and a few of its dependencies aren't available in quicklisp, i take it i shall have to port them? unless there's a simpler way :> ) 12:27:06 Landr: ... wat? 12:27:26 *p_l|back1p* recalls recently loading hunchentoot through quicklips 12:27:28 (ql:system-apropos "huchentoot") => nil 12:27:30 *quicklisp 12:27:33 doh 12:27:36 typo 12:27:36 Landr: you have a typo there 12:28:22 (ql-dist:dependency-tree "hunchentoot") 12:29:57 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Some days you are the pigeon, other days the statue.] 12:30:21 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:33 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:50 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:04 hi 12:32:17 please I need help on clem documentation 12:32:28 actually I need the documentation :) 12:35:34 Posterdati: looks like the test cases are the closest thing to documentation there is 12:39:37 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:40:12 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:24 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:40:26 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:41:03 :( 12:41:21 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:43 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:43:58 Is there some lib with basic vector operations? 12:44:20 addition, multiplication, dot product, etc 12:44:46 jingtao`` [~jingtaozf@123.120.43.37] has joined #lisp 12:45:08 help! http://paste.lisp.org/display/121209 12:45:27 astoon [~astoon@94.25.218.15] has joined #lisp 12:45:35 xale: do you have curses installed? 12:46:05 drdo: clem! 12:47:01 of course. 12:47:23 xale: It looks like you don't 12:47:50 check if you have one of those files in /usr/lib or /lib 12:48:22 -!- jingtao` [~jingtaozf@li94-153.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:48:25 Posterdati: thanks, are there docs for it? 12:48:42 drdo: there were 12:49:58 what part the process of is responsible for this? cffi? quicklisp? 12:50:01 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:50:05 cffi 12:50:23 xale: check if you have those files 12:50:28 it works just fine here 12:52:09 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 12:52:16 ... doesn't OSX come with curses anyway? 12:52:18 udzinari [~user@195.212.29.172] has joined #lisp 12:52:21 Xach: if i edit something under dists/quicklisp/software/.../ will it work? 12:52:21 -!- p_l|back1p is now known as p_l|backup 12:52:32 Xach: or is there a better way apply local changes? 12:52:50 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:55 p_l|[whatever]: yes, it does. 12:53:14 xale: It's better to copy/checkout somewhere else, then add that somewhere else to your ASDF source registry. Quicklisp will load from that somewhere else first. 12:55:10 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@t1.iit.bme.hu] has quit [Quit: bye] 12:59:53 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:00:41 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 13:00:58 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:02:47 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:03:51 joy. 13:03:52 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:03:53 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 13:04:46 xale: if you just want to add to the define-foreign-library form you might try macroexpanding that and seeing if you can programmatically add what you want prior to compilation. 13:05:15 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-an-id3-parser.html <- lisp complains about the call to define-binary-type, claiming "in" is an undefined function. is there a typo? 13:08:05 absence: the define-binary-type macro needs to be defined in your current lisp image 13:08:13 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:08:46 it is 13:09:07 or well, i don't understand exactly what you mean, but it's in the file a few lines further up :) 13:09:09 absence: you have to refer to it by the right name. 13:09:22 Oabl [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:55 absence: that is, if you want to write DEFINE-BINARY-TYPE without a package prefix, you have to be in the home package of DEFINE-BINARY-TYPE, or in a package that imports or inherits the symbol. 13:09:55 right name? 13:10:39 i think i am. the defmacro and the define-binary-type call is in the same file/package 13:11:10 absence: paste the code & error to paste.lisp.org, maybe there's some other issue... 13:11:17 and what do you do with that file? 13:12:09 open it in lisp in a box' emacs and press C-c C-k 13:14:25 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:15:13 *madnificent* has submitted lisp-addict for review at palm 13:16:04 Why oh why is the name SPEED reserved? :( 13:16:27 if you have a WebOS device, check it out in the app catalog soon :) 13:16:28 velocity isn't 13:16:39 stassats`: I just shadowed 13:17:13 rate-of-change-of-position 13:19:22 http://pastebin.com/cLtqAEeE <- this is what i have in the file 13:20:20 type-reader-body isn't defined at the macroexpansion time 13:20:54 why not? 13:21:17 macroexpansion happens before that file is loaded 13:21:29 clhs eval-when 13:21:37 fortitud1ZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.124] has joined #lisp 13:21:47 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:22:26 how can it happen before the file is loaded when the macro call is in that file? :) sorry if it's a stupid question, but i'm a bewildered newbie 13:22:36 tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:04 macros aren't called, they're expanded, and that happens before the code is compiled and loaded 13:23:05 ramkrsna_ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat-us/x-qucyrbwukznyiela] has joined #lisp 13:23:26 Krystof [~csr21@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:23:45 ramkrsna__ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-nzneclammnkusxvx] has joined #lisp 13:23:59 ok, but it has to load the file to know that it is supposed to expand a macro at all, no? 13:24:30 not in the sense of LOAD 13:24:35 absence: there's a compilation phase that preceds the loading phase. 13:25:01 see http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_bbb.htm 13:25:11 macros are expanded at compile time. 13:25:33 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:25:33 though, even if you fix that issue, your macro is still wrong 13:25:49 use macroexpasion to figure what it expands to 13:26:22 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 13:27:39 with some warnings about the undefined "in" function, it expands to a call to read-value 13:27:54 no 13:27:56 -!- ramkrsna_ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat-us/x-qucyrbwukznyiela] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:27:57 a method called read-value 13:28:11 did you write that macro? 13:28:33 no, it's from the practical common lisp book 13:28:35 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:44 are you sure? 13:30:04 it's all copy pasted from the source code on the web site, except the macro "call" (what is the right term?) 13:30:24 *jtza8* also would like to note that in SLIME, in Emacs, C-RET at the begining of the form will print a colour-coded expansion of the macro in a new buffer. 13:30:50 absence: can you point me from where exactly is it copied? 13:31:39 jtza8: i get "C-return is undefined", is RET a different key? 13:31:48 nope 13:31:55 I guess it's an add-on 13:32:02 -!- jingtao`` [~jingtaozf@123.120.43.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:11 (contributed?) 13:32:17 stassats`: the defmacro? 13:32:20 first, it's C-c RET 13:32:42 i use C-c C-m :) 13:32:49 absence: yes 13:32:54 and its companion, C-c M-m 13:33:04 err.. yeah, sorry :) 13:34:39 stassats`: in Chapter24/binary-data.lisp, search for ";;; Binary types" 13:35:14 arbscht: around? 13:35:26 i just removed the write-value method 13:36:18 adeht [void@common.lisp.su] has joined #lisp 13:37:04 absence: so... it's not a copy-paste 13:37:35 akimbo [~oy@adsl-074-239-169-162.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:54 stassats`: technically no ... but does it matter if the defmacro expands to one method instead of two? i can try to put the actual code in and check 13:39:47 well, it does matter, because you use it in the wrong way too 13:39:56 i still get "Undefined function IN" and "Undeclared free variable IN" in lines 44 and 45 13:40:23 hm, the last two lines that is 13:40:34 line numbers changed after i added the full code 13:40:50 the macro requires two bodies, :reader and :writer 13:42:28 ah yes, now it does.. 13:43:43 -!- astoon [~astoon@94.25.218.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:44:02 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:44 ahh.. the ecase stuff requires two bodies. i was looking in the wrong place - the defmacro itself :) 13:46:45 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.43.37] has joined #lisp 13:46:46 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:47:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-167.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:47:41 the one argument case is for (define-binary-type unsigned-integer (bytes bits-per-byte) (some-type 'some 'arguments)) 13:49:56 -!- gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:50:38 well, now it stopped complaining, so i'll get back to picking this stuff appart and hopefully get a better understanding of what actually goes on :) thanks for the pointers! 13:50:58 how do i setup everything to make an ncurses program? 13:51:20 for example stuff like 'getch' does not really work from slime. 13:51:51 i think i need to run ccl then tell slime to connect to it somehow? 13:53:04 ncurses? it's XXI century already! 13:53:20 -!- wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:6001:ae81:12ff:fe34:c30c] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:53:36 -!- Oabl [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:54:03 stassats`: What do you suggest for TUIs in the XXI century? 13:54:16 naryl: web 13:54:21 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has joined #lisp 13:54:23 drdo: doesn't always fit 13:54:36 I know 13:54:48 xale: I think you might get to be a pioneer in this kind of endeavor. 13:54:55 naryl: y-or-n-p 13:55:22 xale: It doesn't work in slime because you need a terminal 13:55:30 minion: shuffletron? 13:55:31 shuffletron: Shuffletron is an MP3 audio player application running on Linux and Mac OS X systems (and possibly elsewhere). http://www.cliki.net/shuffletron 13:55:35 stassats`: using _only_ y-or-n-p, if possible ... the user should enter characters by giving the UTF8 bits one by one 13:55:53 Xach: but then what's the point of having all these curses packages? :-) 13:56:04 and the program should crash silently if you input an invalid bits 13:56:12 xale: I don't remember how did I set it up. It was a long time ago. But this app works: http://sprunge.us/TYQR?cl 13:56:15 *any 13:56:27 And I dn't remember what does it do :) 13:56:28 xale: I'm not really sure. 13:56:51 xale: i can only think of one curses-type lisp program at the moment, shuffletron 13:57:23 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:28 hmm, i guess that's not even curses 13:57:34 stassats`: y-or-n-p is for dialog interfaces. Do you even know what TUI is? 13:58:07 Xach: It doesn't look like it is 13:58:35 xale: Some lisp nerds also play with roguelikes, maybe they know more about how to do curses-type stuff in CL. 13:58:50 oh yeah, langband! 13:59:08 oh, i guess that is also not curses. 14:00:01 naryl: i know, it's something from the last century 14:00:58 xale: What troubles are you having with curses? 14:01:11 none so far. 14:01:13 Yes, like GUIs, Web and Common Lisp. Sadly nobody thought up anything better yet. 14:01:15 I've used curses before (in C though) 14:01:48 It's not very nice to use 14:01:56 for my last graphical program (turmite) I used the framebuffer, accessed via mmap 14:02:04 And it's very annoying dealing with Unicode 14:02:23 but that only wrote single pixels 14:02:29 -!- blackwol` is now known as blackwolf 14:02:58 noone is still using mcclim now i guess? 14:03:09 who's Noone? 14:03:16 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:03:18 or clim implementations provided by franz and lispworks 14:03:18 yay. it works. 14:03:20 stassats`: you stole my line :S 14:03:23 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:03:32 stassats`: no one 14:03:38 oh... 14:04:00 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:05:02 is ccl 1.6 + quicklisp's prefered cl-fad broken -- or is there a pattern I haven't discovered yet 14:05:08 with "nobody" you'd have more luck ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Name_is_Nobody 14:05:38 bhyde: cl-fad does some crazy things to ccl's internal package 14:05:39 bhyde: cl-fad was updated to work better with ccl. 14:05:45 stassats`: did. it's fixed now. 14:05:53 and the latest quicklisp dist has the latest cl-fad. 14:05:57 clim seems pretty solid to me despite the fact that mcclim implementation being not portable, complete and beautiful :) 14:06:24 mcclim is portable, what do you mean? 14:06:26 we use mcclim at Goldsmiths for specialized music interfaces 14:07:01 xach - thanks ... yeah, i saw that cl-fad had updated ... but i must have something in my unique quicklisp setup that declined to be current 14:07:09 bhyde: 0.6.4 has the fix 14:07:13 stassats`: is it portable between OSes? 14:07:16 bhyde: what version do you have locally? 14:07:20 kenanb: yes 14:07:28 hmm, probably using gtkairo backend 14:07:28 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:07:43 Krystof: to whom should I speak regarding spatial-trees darcs? 14:07:46 me 14:07:48 last time i tried to use it in win, i didn't know it had a gtkairo backend :) 14:07:51 sorry 14:08:14 Krystof: http://rvw.doc.gold.ac.uk/sullivan/darcs/spatial-trees is what I'm using, but I get a darcs error when trying to fetch. 14:08:16 kenanb: i don't thin gtkairo is good enough, clx one seems to work better 14:08:17 the answer is that some idiot thought that Apple sold servers, and bought a whole load of them, then insists that when they break he can fix them himself 14:08:33 xach -- i'm kicking tires 14:08:42 there's been filesystem outage at Goldsmiths for weeks, and I'm not physically onsite much to actually sort things out 14:08:59 I will try to find some time to extract data and put it somewhere less bouncy 14:09:18 I have the data 14:09:27 I can provide a tarball. Yay DVCS! 14:09:39 :-) 14:10:02 there have been no changes for years, so I probably have the information around myself in clbuild 14:10:18 stassats`: but with clx backend, it would need to have X to run, right? 14:10:44 Ok. http://xach.com/tmp/spatial-trees.tgz is my copy. 14:10:48 an opengl backend that uses cl-opengl would rock :) 14:10:59 Xach: thanks. 14:11:09 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 14:11:58 i guess people aren't really fan of having opengl as a backend to ui's, but factor ui use opengl backend, it seems pretty solid. 14:12:08 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 14:12:10 kenanb: yes, you'd need X 14:12:17 but X is portable as well 14:12:26 antgreen [~user@12.232.236.2] has joined #lisp 14:12:38 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:43 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:13:09 stassats`: but i fear at some point portablity becomes bringing the whole other system into another :D 14:13:46 bhyde: I know what I mean when I say that, but I can't figure out what you mean. 14:13:51 linux comes with an x server, mac os x does, installing xming on windows is not a problem 14:14:52 stassats`: last time i tried xming on windows to run clx backend, i failed at running clim, yet it was probably my lack of background in these things 14:15:06 i remind seeing some blog posts about how to do that 14:15:58 anyway, ease of portability isn't the biggest problem of mcclim 14:16:19 stassats`: so what are the bigger problems? 14:16:35 beauty maybe :) 14:16:45 working properly 14:17:07 international input 14:18:02 are all the issues with mcclim implementation or clim protocol? 14:18:11 mcclim 14:18:50 i prefer commonqt now 14:19:22 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:22 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:19:22 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 14:19:24 it's not 100% finished, but what is there works fine 14:20:01 stassats`: so if mcclim was proper enough as a clim implementation, it would be a pretty good alternative to recently popular ui toolkints, right? 14:20:26 yes 14:20:28 like the franz and lispworks ones maybe 14:20:35 haha 14:20:48 oh, you mean the franz and lispworks toolkits, not the franz and lispworks clims 14:21:04 dunkyp` [~dunkyp@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:21:32 Krystof: i meant the franz and lispworks clims, do they suffer too? 14:21:36 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 14:21:45 well, pretty good for me, i had a choice, either work on making mcclim better, or on making commonqt better, i chose the latter 14:22:32 kenanb: well. I shouldn't comment. My understanding is that they are not viewed with enthusiasm by the vendors -- they have similar large sets of issues and are largely unmaintained 14:22:45 ah, i see 14:23:16 in other words, don't expect that a Franz clim is any better than mcclim 14:23:46 i remind lispworks had an alternative, capi? maybe 14:24:29 it's not an alternative, it's a primary toolking 14:27:35 sabalaba [~sabalaba@63.84.101.186] has joined #lisp 14:27:50 *udzinari* wishes lw was not so god-damn expensive, or he had money for it, rather 14:28:34 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:41 udzinari: it's not *that* expensive... but it's rather for geared for people who use it to earn money 14:29:19 kenanb: i think the problem with mcclim is that it doesn't have a large often-used application, which stresses many parts of mcclim 14:29:41 dkasak_ [~dkasak@93-138-24-29.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 14:30:35 and there is no large applications, because mcclim isn't good enough yet, so, chicken and egg problem 14:30:36 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@93-138-167-215.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:30:57 p_l|backup: it costs alsmost 3x my current monthly salary.. but then again sbcl & friends (will) get the job done just fine, albeit with a bit more work.. 14:31:18 stassats`: and i guess the maintenance seems to stop on mcclim 14:31:32 if someone said "ok, i'll write this big thing, and i'll fix any issues i encounter along the way", then it'll get better 14:32:00 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-jyxbegxjufmzjmar] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:32:07 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 14:32:19 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:32:28 hopefully that instead of "and i'll give up in disgust" 14:32:46 udzinari: you don't pay such stuff on basis of single month's salary 14:32:53 well, i'm not touching mcclim -- it's GPL 14:33:09 udzinari: you spread it over a period of time, and when that period is "12 months" it suddenly gets cheaper :) 14:33:32 stassats`: if there was no emacs, mcclim might have been the base of an ide for common lisp development, yet there is emacs :D 14:34:02 well, there's climacs, there's clim-listener 14:34:45 stassats`: yes, that was my point, if there was no emacs, maybe that two would be the "large applications" you mentioned 14:34:54 -!- jweiss_ [~user@nat/redhat/x-dtpmysolihtzgkee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:15 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:11 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:07 -!- fortitud1ZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.124] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:38:37 p_l|backup: my brain does not buy that trick. but on the other hand, if it weren't so expensive maybe fewer people would be inclined to work on free sowftware alternatives.. 14:38:49 i'm always thinking of breaking off of emacs, because i don't think slime can evolve easily enough within it 14:38:58 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:39:21 udzinari: your brain might not, it does work from pov of a company 14:40:13 udzinari: i'm inclined to work on free software "alternatives", because i can work on them 14:40:34 if i don't like something in a closed implementation, i'm stuck 14:40:55 carlocci [~nes@93.37.212.242] has joined #lisp 14:43:11 That hasn't been my impression. 14:43:17 p_l|backup: I've noticed one or two times a pattern like: 1. use sbcl 2. ???? 3. profit! 4. ditch sbcl & go lw 14:43:32 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 14:43:33 udzinari: it's gone the other way, too. 14:44:26 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 14:45:00 Xach: interesting, would be a nice read if somebody blogged about it 14:45:00 1. use sbcl 2. get bought for $700m 3. there is no 3 14:45:14 sbcl is more like a tube framed track car, as opposed to a mercedes sedan. 14:45:51 Fade: yeah, it has no read-line, but who needs it? 14:46:03 :) 14:46:18 1. use sbcl 2. create industry-changing product 3. find it hard to be bought... 14:46:23 -!- dunkyp` [~dunkyp@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:27 Fade: SBCL is more like this one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/An-225_Mriya.jpg 14:46:43 It's fast and can carry a lot of stuff but you can't just put it in your garage. 14:46:51 *Fade* laughs 14:47:03 naryl: it doesn't fit. SBCL doesn't come with living quarters 14:47:03 ahhh antonov. 14:47:09 i doubt that Mriya is that fast 14:47:33 urandom__ [~user@p548A7A33.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:42 stassats`: there are no "slow" long-haul jet transports 14:47:44 stassats`: Compared to Mecredes sedan? :D 14:47:55 everything in 800~1000 km/h range 14:48:07 fascinating as these automotive analogies are... 14:48:45 dunkyp [~user@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:48:57 naryl: compared to Concorde or Tu-144 14:49:00 (An-225 has cruise speed @ ~800 km/h, max @ 850 km/h, for a heavy-duty freighter that's respectable) 14:49:22 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:49:24 Well, there are no Concordes among CL implementations. 14:49:51 we missed you yesterday, splittist 14:49:58 stassats`: Tu-144 was supposed to bring people (and later on, mail and small packages) at high speeds (Ma 2 cruise!). An-225 was to "haul giant heavy shit through the world" 14:50:00 MCL - beloved but discontinued? 14:50:50 Krystof: I missed being there. What was the turnout like? 14:51:05 (or was there more Ikea to be assembled?) 14:51:14 splittist: there's RMCL 14:51:37 so what does people use here instead, clozure? 14:51:54 naryl: as for Concorde of lisps... Connection Machine Lisp? 14:51:59 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:00 kenanb: both! 14:52:00 kenanb: most use sbcl, I would guess (: 14:52:04 i guess mostly sbcl despite the analogies 14:52:19 antifuchs: ah, i was thinking so :) 14:52:20 kenanb: familiarity breeds contempt (-; 14:52:48 splittist: not too bad. Teclo attendees were outnumbered by a decent margin 14:53:08 kenanb: SBCL on linux, Clozure on Windows :) 14:53:15 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:53:48 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 14:54:26 Krystof: teclo office warming party? or slug? (: 14:55:45 astoon [~astoon@nat121-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has joined #lisp 14:56:05 slug 14:56:06 blogged 14:56:10 -!- astoon [~astoon@nat121-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:12 i didn't know scheme is case sensitive, not lispy 14:56:21 now I am safe from Xachdeletion for another 6 months 14:56:28 no need to be that much sensitive 14:56:39 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:56:47 Xach: btw quicklisp rocks 14:56:59 *splittist* hits F5 on planet lisp like he's training for HyperOlympics 14:57:09 kenanb: you'd be surprised to know that CL is case sensitive too 14:57:15 ? 14:57:18 how come? 14:57:25 Joreji [~thomas@80-214.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:57:30 i guess you make it case sensitive if you want 14:57:31 well, it's how it's specified 14:57:33 but not in default 14:57:50 hmm 14:57:54 brodo [~brodo@p5B025C95.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:01 Krystof: is there a schedule for the future zslug meetings? 14:58:14 the reader upcases by default, but it's case-sensitive 14:58:18 kenanb: lisp is case-sensitive upcasing 14:58:18 *udzinari* hopes to go when there will be more non-pro friendly topics :) 14:58:32 (not case insensitive case-preserving as most "friendly" file systems are) (-: 14:58:38 you can prevent upcasing by escaping 14:59:15 boo - no audio ): 14:59:17 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.115.185] has joined #lisp 14:59:18 antifuchs: I really wish that Apple had bitten the bullet and fixed that when they had the change 14:59:30 least friendly 'friendly' feature ever 14:59:36 rsynnott: yeah, it is pretty annoying 14:59:42 jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.43.37] has joined #lisp 14:59:48 but I don't notice most of the time (: 14:59:53 yeah, i remind that case sensitivity upcasing thing, from pcl i guess, what i meant was more related to conventions 15:00:25 or "also related to conventions" 15:00:35 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.43.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:00:59 scheme people also seem to define camelcase time to time especially if they make wrappers around some other languages library etc 15:01:20 define symbols in camelcase* 15:02:18 CamelCaseConsideredHarmful 15:02:33 -!- antgreen [~user@12.232.236.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:04:21 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:04:52 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 15:09:42 jingtao`` [~jingtaozf@li94-153.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:21 morning 15:11:04 -!- jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.43.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:11:05 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:11:16 iaindalton [~user@host-72-174-169-102.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:36 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 15:12:16 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has left #lisp 15:12:21 Is there a Common Lisp that can run off a USB drive (IE, doesn't rely on the registry)? 15:12:42 question does not compute.. 15:13:05 boot ubuntu live image, install lisp, profit. 15:13:57 I'd be a little surprised if any of the open source ones that work on Windows mess with the registry 15:14:01 -!- jingtao`` [~jingtaozf@li94-153.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 15:14:04 iaindalton: ambigeous question, but if you're on windows try lisp cabinet (bundles several cl implementations and emacs) 15:14:15 lispworks might 15:14:37 rsynnott: well, it's locked to machine, isn't it? 15:15:09 I have Linux at home, but I'd like to continue working on a project when I'm on campus, and the machines are pretty restricted. I'll check out lisp cabinet 15:16:16 iaindalton: clozure doesn't use registry and works on windows 15:16:28 oh nice 15:16:56 is the registry not officially discouraged even for proper windows apps these days? 15:17:30 Well, I suppose I should also require that it not write to AppData or anywhere like that 15:18:05 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 15:18:09 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:18:56 iaindalton: depends on your programs - it shouldn't be hard to create a set of scripts that will run Emacs off the thumb drive with proper config 15:18:58 iaindalton: can't you just ssh to your home machine? 15:19:09 (you can use WSH to generate apropriate data from system info) 15:19:26 udzinari: Yeah...I should set up dyndns some time 15:19:56 Thanks for the suggestions; I'll check out Clozure and Lisp Cabinet 15:19:58 -!- iaindalton [~user@host-72-174-169-102.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1] 15:20:13 ianmcorvidae|alt: lisp cabinet bundles clozure 15:20:47 iaindalton: clozure is what you should try, and idk but even if it uses some system defined paths, you can probably change those with an init file or a batch file that sets temporary parameters 15:20:54 _3b: My lisp crashes with an Xlib error every time i redefine a glut window method, help :) 15:21:07 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 15:21:43 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:21:54 antgreen [~user@12.232.236.2] has joined #lisp 15:23:33 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.115.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:23:39 delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has joined #lisp 15:24:19 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025C95.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 15:26:21 Gmind [~Nevermind@123.16.96.53] has joined #lisp 15:27:38 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:38 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@123.16.96.53] has quit [Client Quit] 15:28:41 how do i make symbol-completion work for asdf-loaded packages? 15:28:55 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@63.84.101.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:29:12 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:29:26 what do you mean? 15:29:52 if i type cl-charms: in slime i get a list of symbols. 15:30:07 if i type cl- in slime it does not offer any completions. 15:30:07 yes 15:30:37 use fuzzy-completion 15:31:13 also, completion isn't necessarily set under just Tab 15:31:19 there are different forms of completion 15:31:32 in slime, there's only one 15:31:42 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.204] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:31:46 at a time, that is 15:32:02 stassats`: well, there's always M-/ :P 15:32:33 i'm using slime-complete-symbol. 15:32:39 (it seems) 15:33:03 xale: M-x customize-variable RET slime-complete-symbol-function 15:33:04 15:33:09 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:33:30 provided that you loaded slime-fancy contrib 15:34:38 ok, slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol works, but i'm pretty sure it worked before without this. 15:34:47 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:36:09 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:36:44 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.33.152.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:37:02 could it be because i had the package name somewhere? 15:37:24 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:46 i don't really know how other completions work, i find fuzzy completion to be the most useful 15:38:02 except that it still has no context-sensitive completion 15:39:04 stassats`: huh, is there a method that has context-sensitive completion? 15:39:12 that would be really awesome (: 15:39:15 sabalaba [~sabalaba@63.84.101.186] has joined #lisp 15:39:20 antifuchs: c-p-c has some 15:39:25 yeah that is probably why it worked. 15:39:30 at least for keywords 15:39:49 if i intern CL-CHARMS in a current package, then normal completion suggests it too. 15:40:14 i've been meaning to get around adding it to slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol for a couple of years now 15:40:33 stassats`: sounds great! (: 15:41:24 to get context-sensitivity for slime-complete-symbol* you need to set slime-complete-symbol*-fancy to T 15:42:10 it only understands keyword arguments and characters names now 15:42:12 -!- mfranc [~mfranc@nat/redhat/x-cjnthnxolzykcqto] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:42:51 hum. wasn't there context-sensitive definition lookup as well? 15:43:11 what does that mean? 15:43:16 it would be really really nice if that could also complete local variable/function names 15:44:01 there are loads of things to do to make slime better 15:44:12 but that even works in elisp. 15:44:17 that is, local symbols. 15:44:26 it does? 15:44:47 (let ((hello 'world)) (he... suggests 'hello' in a elisp buffer. 15:44:59 is this what you meant? 15:45:33 are you sure that hello isn't already interned? 15:45:58 it works with other symbols too. 15:46:31 are you sure that is bound to completion, and not to dabbrev-expand? 15:46:49 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.204] has joined #lisp 15:47:14 it's not bound to either of these. but this could be a completer feature, yes. 15:47:19 which in this case is company. 15:47:52 *stassats`* doesn't understand a bit, notes that elisp is off-topic in any case, and goes away 15:47:59 sorry. 15:51:10 FedXA [~fedxa@roam-nat-sw-prg-gm-194-254-61-1.net.univ-paris-diderot.fr] has joined #lisp 15:52:27 gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has joined #lisp 15:52:35 lundis [~lundis@dyn56-304.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 15:54:02 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:56:00 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:57:27 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:37 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-193.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:57:41 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:59:28 mephisto [~mephisto@CPE30469a61d317-CM000a735f22bd.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:59:43 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:00:48 Had one of those 'hmmm damn it, cant figure out a satisfying way to do this' things today, now, finally at night time when all tired and dreamy, had an aha moment and its working good now. 16:00:52 win. 16:01:08 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@63.84.101.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:03:24 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754cd0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:40 -!- Krystof [~csr21@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:04:37 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 16:04:52 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has left #lisp 16:06:57 Well I thought it was cool anyway. :p 16:07:47 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:09:50 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:12:04 -!- redline6` [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:13:11 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:08 -!- gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:15:59 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:16:53 -!- Guest51351 [~mau@bard-nynt1-241.bard.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:16:54 -!- ramkrsna__ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-nzneclammnkusxvx] has quit [Quit: Quit] 16:19:14 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:20:01 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5B327347.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:33 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:23:58 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5B3273E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:29:05 -!- udzinari [~user@195.212.29.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:29 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 16:31:45 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 16:36:22 The_Fellow1 [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 16:37:04 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 16:37:31 is there some way to tell ccl to not run a repl? 16:37:46 What should it do instead? 16:38:38 -!- The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:39:01 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:39:13 the problem is that, for some reason, curses input functions get only some of the input. 16:39:24 and what they don't get goes into the repl 16:39:45 if swank:*communication-style* is set to nil then everything goes to curses. 16:40:29 but if i do that, then i can't evaluate anything from slime while curses loop is running. 16:40:32 does that make sense? 16:41:16 -!- akimbo [~oy@adsl-074-239-169-162.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:41:58 Don't know, sorry. 16:42:13 it almost works! 16:42:13 (n?)curses can open secondary terminals, you may want to do that 16:42:45 not familiar with the CL module though 16:42:59 it's just a thin wrapper it seems. 16:43:19 _mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 16:43:38 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:58 oGMo: how do i do this? 16:44:35 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA26A30.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:45:01 xale: i think you want to call newterm and make that your default screen .. hm 16:45:41 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:45:59 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has joined #lisp 16:46:26 i think it might be easier to tell swank or ccl to not do something 16:46:30 something that causes these problem. 16:46:37 but i'm not sure what that is. 16:47:03 doesn't emacs essentially tie to the stdin/stdout for the inferior lisp though? 16:47:32 oGMo: you don't always have to start it like that. you can start a swank server separately. 16:47:41 Xach: oh right 16:47:45 there is no inferior, with inferior it does not work at all. 16:48:09 i start ccl from a terminal, then load swank and tell it to start a server. 16:48:15 and it mostly works. 16:48:46 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 16:48:47 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:51:01 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:51:18 odd, not sure why that would interfere without looking at exactly what it's doing 16:52:09 i think swank processes each request in a separate thread. 16:52:34 so i end up with a thread where curses does something to standard descriptors and a thread where ccl reads. 16:52:44 mau [~mau@stu234-251.bard.edu] has joined #lisp 16:53:10 -!- mau is now known as Guest98813 16:56:51 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:57:06 -!- Guest98813 [~mau@stu234-251.bard.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:58:36 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:01:51 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 17:01:56 -!- The_Fellow1 [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:03:10 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 17:03:12 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:03:50 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:04:19 ldh [~ldh@static-217-37.vpn.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 17:05:36 jdz [~jdz@host218-111-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:07:58 -!- ldh [~ldh@static-217-37.vpn.wisc.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 17:08:59 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 17:09:36 milanj [~milanj_@212-200-217-107.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:15:04 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:32 Xach: about adding local changes through an asdf source registry. how do i do this? 17:15:35 xan__ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has joined #lisp 17:15:54 -!- jdz [~jdz@host218-111-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:16:08 basically i got a broken package in quicklisp, and i want to fix that with a patch. 17:16:42 -!- dunkyp [~user@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:57 I keep a file .config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/10-hacks.conf 17:19:23 in which I list, one per line, the directories that should be overridden (overrode?) 17:19:26 like so: 17:19:27 (:directory "/Users/asf/Hacks/jofrli/") 17:19:49 depending on your dir structure, you might want to use the wildcard subtree search thing though (: 17:20:14 restart your lisp or clear the asdf cache (forgot how to do that) after modifying it 17:21:37 i don't understand anything you wrote. 17:21:44 :-( 17:22:12 hm, I may have misunderstood your question 17:22:19 what is it you want to do? (: 17:22:41 there a quicklisp installed package that needs a patch before it compiles/works. 17:22:55 oooh, ok. 17:23:18 i could edit the problematic .lisp file but i was told there is a better way. 17:23:38 well, quicklisp unpacks sources in ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/- 17:23:57 you /can/ edit stuff there, but in the next dist update quicklisp will download the new version, and will load that instead 17:24:04 so you might have to forward-port your change 17:24:21 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C4122.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:52 yes, i could do that, but it seems fragile. 17:24:53 xale: when quicklisp is going to load something, it first lets asdf look in its usual places. You can set these 'usual places' with a file in the .config/common-lisp/source-registyry-blah-blah-blah.conf.d/ registry. So git clone the cl-charms repository into /Users/xale/source/cl-charms (or whatever), edit it appropriately, and add a file with (:directory "/Users/xale/source/cl-charms/") into the .conf.d/ directory mentioned above. 17:25:27 When your patch is applied upstream, you can just get rid of your local copy and amend the .conf.d/xxx file appropriately. 17:25:56 splittist explains it much better than I (-: 17:25:57 there is nothing like that in my ~/.config though, is that okay? 17:26:15 mkdir -p ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d 17:26:32 xale: you have to create it. Perhaps someone needs to write a quickasdfconfig... 17:26:35 asdf won't break if that tree isn't there, but if you add files, you'll need the tree (: 17:27:31 -!- FedXA [~fedxa@roam-nat-sw-prg-gm-194-254-61-1.net.univ-paris-diderot.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:38 what those people said 17:27:47 xale: what project is broken? 17:27:53 charms 17:27:55 orivej [~orivej@host-50-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 17:28:04 asdf2 configuration has been optimized for large sprawling sets of shared systems where you don't trust your coworkers (or so it seems sometimes) 17:28:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@80-214.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:28:47 splittist: it's cl++ ((-: 17:28:59 heh 17:29:11 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:29:51 that explains the vague feeling I got when I tried to understand the whole source registry thing 17:31:07 splittist: what should be the file name for this registry thing? 17:31:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-206-33.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:29 xale: whatever you want, ending in ".conf" 17:32:18 yes. 17:32:23 finally it work. thank you! 17:32:29 cool. congrats, xale (: 17:32:34 The invoice is in the mail! 17:32:41 (our rates are very reasonable) (; 17:32:49 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:08 Quicklisp Platinum Support is pricy but ultimately worth it 17:33:17 by the way, where do fasls go from this asdf-installed stuff? 17:33:25 xale: ~/.cache/common-lisp 17:33:36 ok! 17:34:19 The interesting thing is that the percentage royalty increases hugely for extremely high sales amounts, so we weight our participation towards hits. 17:38:38 -!- rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has quit [Quit:    ] 17:39:55 astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-35-86.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:42:31 ok, i get exactly the same problem with sbcl. 17:42:41 so, this probably means the problem is with swank. 17:42:55 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-119-50.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:57 easy for you to blame poor swank! 17:47:50 -!- splittist [~splittist@101-238.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:47:52 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754cd0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:36 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-ztssrbzrptwevhod] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:49:58 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:50:35 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:51:34 ok. it works. 17:51:54 that only took like five hours or so. 17:52:26 xale: what are you making? 17:52:28 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-119-50.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:53:03 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-119-50.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:49 gglitch [~user@216-80-93-163.c3-0.grn-ubr1.chi-grn.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:04 root_ [~root@0x5da22faa.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1104.hrnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:58:47 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:58:51 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:01:11 Raykon [~user@bl14-196-196.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:03:57 Xach: just set up an environment where i can run/write curses programs, while still using slime and its repl. 18:04:29 xale: What kind of curses programs? 18:04:34 any kind! 18:04:42 Did you have a specific one in mind? 18:04:50 i think i'm going to try writing an irc client. 18:06:14 mostly just to see if i end up with something that can be used like a normal unix program. 18:06:19 that's boring! 18:07:47 Xach: is there any way to get a package description in quicklisp? 18:08:22 xale: I don't have that easily available yet, no. It's a feature I very much want to add. 18:08:31 ok. 18:08:41 at least a link to the website would be nice. 18:09:17 A short description, a link to the website, where the source came from, the license, the author(s), where to report bugs - all useful things not currently easily available. 18:09:21 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:09:58 Joreji [~thomas@77-167.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:11:40 stassats`: D'oh! I thought NTH-VALUE was a special form so I didn't try to investigate further. Turns out macroexpanding NTH-VALUE reveals that (nth-value 5000 (values)) expands into a multiple-value-bind with 5000 gensyms. So that's the real issue... (nth 5000 (multiple-value-list (values))) behaves correctly, in contrast. 18:11:59 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 18:12:16 meh` [~meh@adsl-ull-202-116.42-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 18:12:21 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:50 it's not exactly an issue, i doubt anyone in the sane mind would return 5000 multiple values 18:13:32 Hexstream: CCL does something like your version (not a bunch of gensyms) 18:14:03 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:14:36 And yeah  many multiple values is pretty crazy. 18:14:45 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-125-145.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:16:11 (let ((n 5000)) (nth-value n (values))) sidesteps the bug ;P 18:16:33 "bug"? 18:17:01 Hexstream: What is this code that is generating 5000 values? 18:17:11 sellout: The one I typed in the REPL! 18:17:27 Oh, no, there's no code generating 5000 values. 18:17:31 Is there a library for CL that can do FTPS? 18:18:01 Hexstream: Ok, *phew*. 18:18:19 sykopomp: I haven't heard of one. 18:18:52 akimbo [~oy@64.134.155.188] has joined #lisp 18:19:02 you shouldn't use more than 19 multiple values 18:19:10 sykopomp: i sometimes have to work with data providers who give us stuff via ftp, and there's always confusion about secure ftp. some people think sftp and ftps are the same thing... 18:21:42 stassats`: Is there really an implementation out there that has the minimum multiple-values-limit?... 18:22:15 lispworks has 51, that's quite close 18:22:27 It's more than the double o_o 18:22:46 Xach: yeah, it's not entirely clear which one we're supposed to use -right now-, but we need support for both anyway. 18:23:01 Xach: Is there an existing solution for sftp, while we're at it? 18:23:21 Hexstream: so, is 3 significantly larger than 1? 18:23:27 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:42 stassats`: In relative terms, perhaps. Depending on context. 18:24:12 in any case, i have a hard time imaginine anyone using more than 10 multiple values 18:24:38 only for sufficiently small values of 1. 18:24:48 is there something that provides a select-style api for sockets? 18:25:03 iolib? 18:25:14 xale: sb-posix? 18:25:35 iolib is far better than select-style :) 18:25:40 i don't really like the sb- bit. 18:26:07 -!- root_ [~root@0x5da22faa.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1104.hrnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:26:20 xale: good luck with that, then. There's no cross-platform posix api for lisp that I know of 18:26:34 but iolib is very nice, certainly 18:26:50 sb- means it is an sbcl package, right? 18:27:10 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:13 (rename-package 'sb-posix 'sb-posix '(posix)) 18:27:26 no more sb- bits! 18:27:33 sykopomp: I don't think so. 18:27:33 stassats`: You're an endless source of practical solutions! 18:29:01 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 18:30:32 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:30:54 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:31:55 Practical solutions for practical problems. 18:32:18 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:33:07 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 18:33:34 Practical Common Lisp! 18:34:18 Xach: is it better than ANSI Common Lisp? 18:35:05 1000% 18:36:19 sbcl doesn't seem to support it, (list #+ansi-cl 'ansi #+practical-cl 'practical) => (ANSI) 18:37:48 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:10 i'm not sure what cross-platform means here, but something that is not limited to a single lisp implementation would be nice. 18:40:18 iolib looks good so far. 18:41:29 -!- emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-173648.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:23 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-174-190.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 18:47:36 msponge [~msponge@149-169-122-145.nat.asu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:48:03 Hum. A good compiler should treat (let ((my-var (the my-type my-form))) my-body) the same as (let ((my-var my-form)) (declare (type my-type my-var)) my-body), right? 18:49:06 i don't think so 18:49:31 the latter is a declaration of the type of a variable, and the form declares the return value of some form 18:50:01 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 18:50:16 Oh wait, that's right. I knew I was confusing things again. 18:51:56 It's a bit annoying that setf-expansions don't have a way to specify types for the variables :( I'm also wondering if it's a safe assumption that these variables are setfable... 18:52:50 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has left #lisp 18:53:08 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:55:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-167.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:19 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:59:15 -!- xan__ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:00:33 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 19:01:05 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:02:31 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 19:03:11 -!- akimbo [~oy@64.134.155.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:57 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:55 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:09:57 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:10:42 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:10:53 is there a way to make async dns queries in iolib? it does not look like there is, but i might be missing something. 19:13:32 xale: I don't know if it has direct support for it, but it has all the pieces for making it yourself. 19:13:57 a packet parser and synthesizer plus async networking 19:17:44 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-173648.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:17:59 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:22:42 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:25:02 jweiss [~user@adsl-74-157-174.ilm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:11 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif5-0-0-cust523.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:35:18 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-248-241-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:16 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:49 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 19:40:59 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 19:41:04 oh boy 19:41:10 *Landr* sets off to port cliki to hunchentoot 19:41:13 any tips? :> 19:42:39 Quit before you start. 19:42:45 Why would you want to do such a hateful thing? 19:42:45 :( 19:42:53 because I want a lisp wiki on a lisp server? 19:43:50 write it anew? 19:44:25 I'm quite sure I'd write much worse code 19:44:42 Aiming high is a good thing here, I think 19:44:56 well, I'm giving myself 10 days to get anywhere 19:44:56 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif5-0-0-cust523.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:45:04 https://github.com/archimag/cliki2 is a lisp wiki that runs on hunchentoot 19:45:10 if by then it doesn't work, I'll just do the whole project in the standard lamp 19:45:10 i don't know what its relationship to cliki is, though. 19:45:19 ooh, nice, thanks 19:49:41 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-12-213.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 19:49:41 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50:55 Cin [~Cin@pdpc/supporter/student/zhuangzi] has joined #lisp 19:51:03 frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:14 Hey. Does anyone have a mode for Emacs that, through colouring, distinguishes between quoted and non-quoted sexprs? So, e.g., for `(foo ,bar), `(foo , ) would be one colour, and bar would be another. 19:52:58 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.203.181] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:53:37 Xach, Landr: the plan is for cliki2 to supersede cliki 19:53:39 Cin: I think that's normally done through hairy regular expressions. 19:53:50 drewc: What is the relationship between cliki2 and cliki, codewise? 19:54:14 cmm [~cmm@109.65.203.181] has joined #lisp 19:54:16 Cin: if the question is then "Has someone already written the hairy regular expressions to do that?" I'm afraid I don't know. 19:54:42 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-12-213.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 19:55:32 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C4122.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:38 Xach: AFAIK, cliki2 is a ground-up re-write, but maintains compatibility with cliki syntax 19:55:54 also adds markdown syntax AIUI 19:56:22 markdown sucks. 19:56:49 vsync: Really? 19:56:58 *sellout* lourves the Markdown 19:57:50 it's just gratuitously different than org-mode 19:57:58 and things like the link syntax are insane 19:58:22 so is every hypertextable's plaintext representation 19:58:26 you just get used to one 19:58:54 *sellout* thinks the parenthesized-URL style of Markdown is very natural. 19:58:56 yeah but org-mode at least took an existing syntax that had been around forever and extended it 19:58:59 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:34 vsync: org-mode is just as gratuitously different from other stuff. 19:59:35 and if you were going to make a format for text files in source code or whatever, and ignore everything used before, why not just rip off media wiki syntax then? 19:59:43 I think it's kinda pointless to discuss this. 19:59:48 antifuchs: ah but it was first 19:59:50 markdown's main design decision is to make plain text look like the rendered html. They sacrificed a lot to achieve that. 19:59:54 *antifuchs* doubts that 20:00:01 how about c2's syntax? 20:00:13 *shudder* C2's syntax. 20:00:25 let's invent s-expy syntax 20:00:30 drewc: That name is surely a bummer, then. 20:00:31 ''''''how many ticks again?'''''' 20:00:40 sellout: the world may never know. 20:00:51 drewc: *this* discussion brought you back to irc? :p 20:00:58 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:01:03 he's the cliki kibo! 20:01:05 anyway. it's entirely pointless to discuss markup-less text representation syntax. 20:01:10 key example: headings, via outline mode, have used levels of * ** *** since forever and ever 20:01:29 markdown, no, # ## ### 20:01:29 we could continue this in #emacs 20:01:35 but I'm not sure they will be very happy with this. 20:01:37 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:02:13 anyway parens are objectively bad for _any_ markup because they appear in normal content. wikipedia links on Reddit are always broken because people don't carefully escape their ) 20:02:48 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-248-241-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:03:00 yikes, look what i started! 20:03:13 vsync: I'm afraid nobody gives a damn. 20:03:16 it can be #h(http:// Title) 20:03:35 Xach: well, it will replace cliki.net, so it's not a complete misnomer 20:03:50 drewc: wow, what's the timeframe for that? 20:03:53 (and yay, finally!) (: 20:04:06 (isn't cliki's domain lease up soonish?) 20:04:13 does it have diffs and history? 20:04:14 stassats`: isn't that even more subject to breaking on () in the URL or the link title? 20:04:48 "when it's ready" really... i'm not doing the work myself, so i can't be more specific :) 20:05:01 haha alright (: 20:05:08 component #:SANITIZE not found, required by # 20:05:09 okmijnoob [~user@195.217.72-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:17 hmm, how do I installed manually 20:05:17 cliki should automagically renew now 20:05:19 *okmijnoob* says hi 20:05:28 -!- jweiss [~user@adsl-74-157-174.ilm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:05:29 cliki.net that is 20:05:44 Landr: you'll have to get some of the prerequisites manually. 20:05:56 The_Fellow1 [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:08 Landr: When I want to do that, I stick them in ~/src/lisp/ and have an asdf2 :tree configuration for ~/src/lisp/ 20:06:21 ah, asdf2:tree 20:06:24 when i fetch a new project there, i do an (asdf:initialize-source-registry) to scan for 'em. 20:06:24 jweiss [~user@adsl-74-157-174.ilm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:24 Landr: afaik it requires git versions of certain libs as well 20:06:38 drewc: most of those are being resolved it seems 20:06:45 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:06:55 actually this whole thing is a mess 20:06:57 sanitize will be in the april quicklisp dist update 20:07:03 *Landr* makes a new user account for lisp development solely 20:07:07 Zol [~Zolomon@li152-84.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:17 -!- The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:08:16 that's a strange approach 20:08:31 one I can sympathise with (: 20:08:33 well, my directories are cluttered with trash 20:08:40 have done similar things to get rid of crud (: 20:08:47 eek. gwking broke metabang-bind on sbcl. there go a ton of projects... 20:08:50 *Xach* opens an issue 20:08:55 booooo, gary! 20:09:07 oh, i forgot that i do lisp development solely 20:09:16 Does anyone even use SBCL anymore? 20:09:20 *Landr* does 20:09:21 any passive-aggressive workplace retaliation I should prepare, xach? (; 20:09:24 *okmijnoob* tried to 20:09:27 sellout: only developers 20:09:29 if only because I probably have to for now 20:09:30 sellout: no, they all switched to Java. 20:10:01 if all the cool kids went somewhere else i'd be distressed 20:10:04 hello drewc 20:10:11 i used CMUCL for ages, finally moved everything over to SBCL 20:10:20 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-193.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:10:29 it's hard to be cool and hip 20:10:39 antifuchs: does allegro have an indent declaration? 20:10:43 especially when you're writing CL code, eh? :) 20:10:43 e.g. (declare (indent 1))? 20:10:51 ugh?! 20:10:55 I don't think so 20:11:09 it's conditionalized in metabang-bind with #-allegro, i thought maybe the sign was wrong. 20:11:20 emacs lisp has it. 20:11:23 ziga [~user@BSN-143-33-110.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:49 does metabang-bind run on emacs-lisp? :) 20:12:01 -!- okmijnoob [~user@195.217.72-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:06 Warning: Ignoring unrecognized declaration: (indent 1) 20:12:09 https://gist.github.com/902174 shows the culprit 20:12:29 hey danlentz_, just emailed you 20:12:33 looks like the original is from elisp and it was, erm, haphazardly adopted. 20:13:01 yes, sounds like it 20:13:05 -!- frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:13:06 macros don't have that decl either 20:13:53 seems like a useful generalization of &body, though. 20:13:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-193.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:14:12 antifuchs: you could make him cookies but then leave them out on the counter until they are really dry before you give them to him. 20:14:27 Xach: I think that is an adequate punishment 20:14:28 http://www.gnu.org/s/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Indenting-Macros.html 20:14:39 just sending them in the mail over to the east coast should be enough, I guess (; 20:15:21 or I could send an empty package with a note "I maded you a cookie, but (indent 1) ated them" 20:15:32 typeset with Impact. of course. 20:15:53 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 20:15:54 drewc: what would be a use case for going through all the persistent-standard-class over just inserting standard0objects into a btree and relying on wilbur serializer 20:16:17 this glitch has broken about 35 projects 20:16:19 rucksack soory 20:16:35 drewc rucksack serializer 20:16:46 an argument against too much dependcies! 20:16:50 *Xach* files bugs so *you* don't have to 20:16:59 you can never have too many dependencies, it's fun! 20:17:08 Xach: hero! 20:17:13 danlentz_: mutation is the only reason, and it's not a good one 20:17:31 right now i just store things in the btree and don't mutate them, works for me. 20:17:34 Xach: seriously, your work makes the whole of lisp so much better. 20:18:04 even for those who don't use quicklisp 20:18:12 Oabl [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:28 "has broken" 35 projects, or "would have broken 35 projects if Xach didn't notice the problem and not update"? 20:18:32 *Xach* needs MORE AUTOMATION so these kinds of problems are easier to spot and report earlier 20:18:41 foom: well, for all those clbuild1 users... 20:18:47 employ minion! 20:19:11 I haven't had any luck recruiting minions. Neither the cl-gardeners nor the quicklispers leaped at the chance to do boring stuff for me :( 20:19:24 drewc: do multi-btrees nest? 20:19:43 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:19:49 -!- egn_ [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:20:09 Xach: the ones that offered help earlier didn't stick around? /-: 20:20:13 minion: would you help Xach? 20:20:14 i would most certainly not help xach 20:20:23 minion is kind of a dick 20:20:31 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 20:21:15 danlentz_: I'm not sure nesting works at all right now, to be honest... the only thing that i'm using is the heap-btree 20:21:30 so that's what actually works at any given time 20:21:51 antifuchs: Maybe I just didn't appeal for help in the right way. 20:22:13 I don't think I recall a public plead for help. may be worth repeating 20:22:19 nikodemus wound up doing the work 20:22:23 his time is too precious! 20:22:43 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:22:49 I think regular quicklisp-workathons with smaller units of work and less regular maintenence effort could be nice 20:22:54 agreed 20:23:30 http://groups.google.com/group/quicklisp/browse_thread/thread/bc15326d899057da 20:23:41 xale: not yet 20:23:57 drewc: how many long-lived versions of the b-tree are there, usually? 20:24:05 ah yeah, that fizzled. 20:24:23 The elephant issue remains 20:25:24 fe[nl]ix: it is pretty neat otherwise! 20:27:34 pkhuong: for my main use case currently, N where N is the number of modifications to the btree.. all version history is kept indefinately, but one can only modify the most current version. 20:27:43 these requirements are changing though 20:29:21 hello drewc :) 20:29:43 What was the name of that wiki software that alu used for a while? 20:29:50 in fact, i have different requirements for index structures in different parts of the application, for that matter 20:29:54 from shapiro, was it? 20:30:14 xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has joined #lisp 20:30:16 Xach: i forget the name, but yeah it was shapiro 20:30:25 hey fe[nl]ix 20:30:36 I remember liking the name: ah, "kiwi" 20:30:49 yes, that sounds right 20:30:56 drewc: so nothing long-libed? 20:30:59 *long-lived. 20:31:00 drewc: to garbage-collect just copy node-set to a new btree? 20:31:19 not sure the SDA are worth it, frankly. 20:31:42 pkhuong: i have a use case for the SDA where it's ideal actually 20:31:54 do tell 20:32:00 pkhuong: or something quite similar anyway 20:34:00 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-173648.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:35:01 Xach: haha, the wiki without source available (: 20:35:09 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:35:15 the one with the scifi rant written about it (: 20:36:12 -!- xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:36:28 pkhuong: essentially what amounts to a version control system for 'facts', which are collections of key/value pairs. users [create pointers] (details NDA'd) to specific versions, but can view the version graph and chose to update their view of the facts to a different version 20:37:16 ah, yes, that would do it. 20:37:27 -!- gglitch [~user@216-80-93-163.c3-0.grn-ubr1.chi-grn.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:46 trying to stuff that into a CoW btree works, but there are massive space blowups 20:38:23 xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has joined #lisp 20:38:39 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-110-4.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: .] 20:38:41 danlentz_: yeah, full stop and copy. i haven't implemented it yet because i don't need, but i figure it must be trivial 20:39:48 Xach: what kind of boring stuff? 20:40:51 jweiss_ [~user@adsl-065-005-174-221.sip.ilm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:18 -!- jweiss [~user@adsl-74-157-174.ilm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:42:41 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:44:06 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:51:11 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: I'll see you on the dark side of the moon] 20:52:52 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@86.68.4.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:25 drewc: transactions can just plug this in to whatever-transaction-factility-in-use and let transactions be handled at highewr level? 21:00:42 the btree doesn'tcare i gess its all read only 21:00:50 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:01:30 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-119-50.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:01:33 duh 21:01:56 redline6` [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:01 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:02:37 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:47 Adlai [~adlai@109-186-115-92.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 21:05:04 danlentz_: exactly. eventually i'm doing some sort of MVCC thing personally, but the simplest transaction mechanism is just a lock, innit :) 21:06:21 drewc: this type of many btree tending to shorter lived datasets and mostly static content 21:07:16 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:23 -!- Adlai [~adlai@109-186-115-92.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Changing host] 21:07:23 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 21:08:26 p_l|backup: isolate & identify bugs, followup with authors 21:08:31 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:08:37 is a very good fit for wilbur (and by extension de.setf.resource which otherwise relies on a much heavier weight cassandra store) 21:09:08 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:09:21 anyway de.setf.resource employs the concept of "projecting graphs" 21:10:39 cpape [~cpape@f053012012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:10:44 lots of projections, small to medium size sets of triples 21:11:40 and because of the hash table like api it slips into wilbur pretty effortlessly 21:11:46 -!- astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-35-86.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Quit] 21:12:52 Xach: can't most of it be done by an automatic builder? 21:13:16 p_l|backup: Sure, an automatic builder that does not exist yet. 21:13:18 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:13:19 viola persistent wilbur triple stores no more cassandra and complexity vastly reduced 21:14:11 p_l|backup: an automatic builder is good at providing evidence but not great at reasoning 21:14:40 amb007 [~a_bakic@39.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:46 persistent-graphs i mean 21:14:49 danlentz_: that's quite interesting! i've been reading up on triple stores looking to use rdf datasets... you may have come along at the perfect time :) 21:16:32 I've been working my way to get to a practical linked data semantic web universe since i saw wilbur1 by ora lasilla 21:16:59 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955FF34.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:17:50 swclos2 expanded from low level triple-store to full object-graph mapping and really whet my appetitite 21:18:45 but has some serious drawbacks and allegro license requirements 21:18:55 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 21:19:04 danlentz_: did you get my /msg? lets take this off-channel where it's on-topic :) 21:19:38 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:47 yay, metabang-bind fixed 21:20:38 akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:15 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:21:35 bizarrefish [~ray@87.114.186.206] has joined #lisp 21:21:43 hi, all 21:21:56 I've found...CONFLICTING INFORMATION ON THE INTERNET 21:22:05 axia [~axia@c-24-131-81-136.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:29 how capital of you 21:22:49 on one site, the phrase "Because cons pairs are immutable, one can very cheaply create a new list, composed of some first object h prepended to an existing list l" 21:23:00 that would suggest that conses are immutable, yes? 21:23:23 I'm trying to get my head round lisp right now, and after seeing that, i then walked into "setcar" and "setcdr" 21:23:28 bizarrefish: this channel is for common lisp. conses are not immutable in common lisp. 21:23:45 only literal conses are immutable in CL 21:23:54 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212-200-217-107.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:23:56 Oh.....right. i didn't know the lisps varied that much 21:24:02 thanks for putting me straight 21:24:42 They are rich and diverse. 21:25:11 so, it's just the syntax that makes them called 'lisp'. 21:25:37 Nobody agrees about that. 21:25:45 <_3b> history and appearance as much as anything 21:26:17 <_3b> 'lisps' vary as much as C-like languages like C,C++,java,c#,js etc 21:27:17 Krystof [~csr21@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:28:48 Joreji [~thomas@77-167.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:29:55 bizarrefish: so if you see a statement about lisp that seems conflicting, you have to evaluate it in the right context. for PEP 351, it looks like the author of that statement just doesn't know much about lisp. 21:29:57 <_3b> note that that first quote is still valid in the presence of mutable lists, you just need to make sure you don't mutate lists with shared structure carelessly 21:31:19 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7A33.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:03 *_3b* suspects that pep351 thing is talking about the 'beginner scheme class' dialect of 'lisp' that uses some tiny 'pure-functional' subset of scheme 21:32:26 <_3b> (in other words, the usual what people who don't know any form of lisp think 'lisp' is) 21:35:06 -!- Oabl [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Oabl] 21:35:34 -!- mephisto [~mephisto@CPE30469a61d317-CM000a735f22bd.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:24 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:39:02 argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.170.32] has joined #lisp 21:39:16 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:39:30 bizarrefish: yo 21:40:17 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:40:42 bizarrefish: classic CONS cell is a pair of two pointers. Some lisps make it immutable by default (the same as Haskell, btw) 21:41:07 bizarrefish: also, could you drop me the notes from CS courses? :D 21:44:42 francogrex [~user@109.130.73.127] has joined #lisp 21:45:10 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.73.127] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:37 francogrex [~user@109.130.73.127] has joined #lisp 21:46:40 -!- Krystof [~csr21@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:47:13 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-154-94.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:48:42 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 21:48:52 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 21:52:41 antifuchs: does ACL interpret REPL input, instead of fully compiling it? 21:53:06 sykopomp: I think it does interpret by default on the interactive top level, yes. 21:53:13 interesting. 21:53:18 thanks :) 21:54:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-167.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:56:46 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:57:51 Joreji [~thomas@65-105.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:58:26 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:59:48 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.73.127] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:29 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:35 -!- ziga [~user@BSN-143-33-110.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:11 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:56 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 22:06:40 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:10:37 -!- cpape [~cpape@f053012012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 22:11:42 -!- tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: closing time] 22:14:15 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:07 _3b: Do you have any experience running cl-opengl on OS X? 22:15:44 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 22:16:51 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:17:34 -!- xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:20:27 Good morning everyone! 22:21:42 ldh [~ldh@static-217-37.vpn.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 22:22:04 xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has joined #lisp 22:22:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:22:36 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:22:44 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 22:22:44 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 22:22:44 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 22:24:48 fe[nl]ix: is it possible to make a socket non-blocking once instead of using :wait and :dont-wait? 22:25:25 xale: what do you mean ? 22:26:24 normally if you want a non-blocking socket, you fcntl() it. 22:26:42 it seems a lot less error prone than telling each call whether you want it to block. 22:27:04 is something like that possible? 22:28:14 -!- Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-215.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Switching to single-player mode.] 22:30:33 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 22:31:43 yes 22:32:18 although, by default socket fds created by iolib are non-blocking 22:32:26 at least in HEAD 22:33:26 actually it's a lot more error prone for it to be a property of the socket instead of the call 22:33:49 but that ship has long sailed -- in all OSes that exist today, it's a property of the socket or file. 22:33:55 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:34:00 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-105-247.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:43 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:35:35 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-174-190.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:35:58 ok. using isys::%fcntl/int seems to work. 22:36:12 foom: that depends on what you consider to be an error. 22:37:33 xale: I consider it an error for a piece of code that expects to block waiting for data to get less data than it asked for or get an EAGAIN. I consider it an error for code which expects to do a non-blocking read to instead block waiting for data. 22:38:39 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:38:46 It is never the case that random code which calls read/write works with both non-blocking and blocking, unless it was explicitly designed for that. It's usually going to be broken if the file is in the unexpected mode. 22:41:14 codelurker [~codelurke@66.71.230.192] has joined #lisp 22:46:03 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-71-86.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 22:48:45 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:49:44 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 22:50:04 -!- meh` [~meh@adsl-ull-202-116.42-151.net24.it] has quit [Quit: Never compromise, not even in the face of armageddon.] 22:51:03 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-174-190.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 22:51:28 xale: don't do that 22:52:32 xale: the FD is already non-blocking 22:54:37 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:55:11 if i don't do that, i never get ewouldblock. 22:55:27 unless the appropriate keys are used. 22:55:53 then I suppose you're not using HEAD, which you should :) 22:56:07 but i got the library from quicklisp! 22:56:24 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 22:56:41 iolib-0.7.3 22:57:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-105.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:57:57 i suppose on HEAD, this extra call won't break anything, even if it's useless there? 22:58:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:58:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:06 maybe 22:59:16 it's a bad idea to use internals 23:00:17 -!- The_Fellow1 [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has left #lisp 23:03:50 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:05:31 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.248.14] has joined #lisp 23:09:09 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:09:21 rme_ [~rme@209.117.33.69] has joined #lisp 23:09:34 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:09:47 Hum. It's not specified whether, say, GETHASH is a function or macro, is it? The CLHS entry just says that it's an "Accessor"... There are so many such "accessors" that could very well be implemented as functions, yet I can't rely on them being functions, right?... 23:10:02 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:10:12 *_3b* thinks if it doesn't say macro or special operator, it is a function 23:10:35 Oh. 23:10:45 -!- Houl [~Miranda@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [] 23:11:27 So "Accessor" would basically mean: "This is a function, oh and by the way it's a setfable place too." 23:11:27 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 23:11:42 there is a definition of "accessor" too! 23:12:33 xale: You mean in the glossary? I saw that... 23:12:51 <_3b> clhs 1.4.4.14 23:13:11 <_3b> hmm, http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/01_ddn.htm then 23:13:49 <_3b> says it means 'accessor function' 23:13:52 -!- ldh [~ldh@static-217-37.vpn.wisc.edu] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 23:14:31 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:14:31 <_3b> so, function and SETFable 23:15:26 <_3b> though i'm not sure if there is any interaction with structure accessors not being required to be functions, and accessors for slots of standard structures 23:15:49 *_3b* assumes there are some of those, but cna't think of any at the moment 23:15:51 _3b: Nice find, I tend to underestimate chapter 1 ;) So I guess if I make a place with special evaluation rules I'll have to call it "Accessor Macro" in the documentation or something... Thanks! 23:16:08 <_3b> yeah, 1 and 2 habe lots of useful stuff, just hard to find it 23:16:56 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:03 *_3b* needs to make an fully expanded section index one of these days, since it is usually pretty obvious which specific pagfe to look at, just not how to get to it 23:17:20 <_3b> or i guess that would be a ToC rather than an index 23:17:34 -!- bizarrefish [~ray@87.114.186.206] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:19:39 fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.187.55] has joined #lisp 23:21:10 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:23:07 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 23:23:28 apparently a file descriptor flag is completely useless actually. 23:23:31 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 23:24:00 because it will block regardless, unless the &key is specified. 23:24:57 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.255.82] has joined #lisp 23:25:22 non-blocking I/O is over all a very interesting thing that goes contrary to unix :P 23:27:44 i think the reason probably is that all descriptors are non-blocking in this version too. 23:27:55 so it just keeps trying unless you tell it otherwise. 23:28:08 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 23:29:00 xan_ [~xan@70.36.246.130] has joined #lisp 23:31:35 hmmm... IOlib doesn't yet support Windows... will be an interesting port 23:32:01 p_l|backup: are you interested in helping with that ? 23:32:01 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.187.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:34:37 ldh [~ldh@static-217-37.vpn.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 23:36:17 lakatos [~istvan@c3.uaic.ro] has joined #lisp 23:36:20 Hey guys 23:36:35 Could someone help me out with setting up Quicklisp? 23:37:04 fe[nl]ix: possibly in the future 23:37:13 fe[nl]ix: right now, I don't have a windows machine handy :) 23:37:35 however, I stumbled upon some useful stuff 23:37:52 p_l|backup: anyway, if you do you need to talk to lichtblau 23:37:58 like the fact that apparently NT managed to keep half of VMS' async I/O in bastardized form 23:39:00 well, maybe not so bastardized, but I still dislike the wait-for-event behaviour 23:39:04 antgreen` [~user@12.232.236.137] has joined #lisp 23:39:16 *p_l|backup* prefered ASTs 23:40:35 -!- antgreen [~user@12.232.236.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:41:36 on the other hand, signal handling seems tricky in "modern" OSes 23:43:14 lakatos: what's up? 23:43:14 Jubb [~ghost@c-98-204-160-127.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:19 Also, could anyone provide assistance with installing weblocks? 23:43:32 Hi Xach 23:43:35 lakatos: after you get quicklisp, weblocks is (ql:quickload "weblocks") 23:43:41 -!- jweiss_ [~user@adsl-065-005-174-221.sip.ilm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:43:56 Yes, it install everything and loads without error 23:44:25 However if I try to run the demo supplied, I run into a couple of errors 23:44:35 But first, my Quicklisp problem :P 23:45:19 debugger invoked on a ASDF:COMPILE-FAILED in thread # "initial thread" RUNNING 23:45:19 {1002C99D91}>: 23:45:19 erred while invoking # on 23:45:19 # 23:45:28 lakatos: use paste.lisp.org 23:45:37 oh, yes, sorry 23:45:46 lakatos: what version of SBCL are you using? 23:45:53 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:33 <_3b> drdo: cl-opengl on osx is hard :( osx is picky about which thread stuff happens in 23:48:17 Xach: SBCL 1.0.40.0.debian 23:48:18 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:48:23 <_3b> drdo: for ccl, you need to do some magic to run things in the initial thread, for sbcl, running things from bare repl or *inferior-lisp*, or not using :spawn communication style in slime mught work 23:48:26 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 23:48:33 realitygrill [~realitygr@d118-75-25-246.clv.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 23:48:41 lakatos: please paste the full transcript to paste.lisp.org if you can 23:48:47 Was my paste succsesfull? I can't tell 23:49:21 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:49:47 _3b: i saw the cliki page, my friend tried running in on a bare sbcl, still crashed 23:49:47 lakatos: is there more preceding that bit? 23:49:57 i don't have os x to try myself 23:50:06 yes, pasted everything 23:50:16 <_3b> yeah, i don't have osx, so can't try to work around it in cl-opengl 23:50:42 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-57-242.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:51 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:01 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.212.242] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:53:11 lakatos: how did you start sbcl? 23:54:29 _3b: did you find a way to be able to load code and not have lisp crash? 23:54:44 <_3b> i haven't noticed crashes 23:55:25 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:55:42 Xach: sbcl -v for that particul message 23:55:43 it happens when i eval code 23:55:43 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:55:48 while using glut 23:56:08 <_3b> just need to make sure there are enough restarts that i can keep it running when i hit the debugger 23:56:34 i don't hit the debugger 23:56:39 lisp just dies 23:56:49 lakatos: could you include everything starting from the shell prompt? 23:56:51 or i get weird errors like stuff not showing up 23:56:59 <_3b> (or arrange things to be run in the proper thread, but i'm usually too lazy for that so just take the occasionaly 'could not find method' error when something gets redefined at the wrong time 23:57:17 <_3b> what sort of things rae you redefining? 23:57:34 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:57:39 Xach: THat is everything 23:57:41 mostly anything fucks it up 23:57:49 but right now 23:57:53 methods on glut-window 23:58:03 glut:window 23:58:17 lakatos: Humor me? 23:58:18 this is with the window NOT running btw 23:58:25 *_3b* digs up code to look at 23:58:41 *_3b* has mostly been using glop rather than glut lately 23:59:48 i really have to use glut, school proj etc 23:59:53 Xach: Right :) 23:59:56 I'm already happy they let me use CL