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Does anything take arglist hinting from a long-form defsetf? 01:04:37 Or does it just take the hinting from the function that does the read side of accessing? 01:06:42 Guess I'll go with an &rest and apply... 01:07:39 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-118-12.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 01:07:58 nyef pasted "Does this version look workable?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121029 01:08:33 ... I should probably compile this at some point, and figure out how to test it. 01:12:23 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:13:05 -!- Evious [~n_a@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:13:53 -!- pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has left #lisp 01:14:13 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:23:26 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-4d01347a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:50 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:26:38 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75dd87.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:26:52 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:05 -!- xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:27:20 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:09 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit 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03:23:40 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:32:49 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:39:37 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:10 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:44:05 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:44:44 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:48:01 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50:26 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:51:25 plage [~user@88.128.90.138] has joined #lisp 03:51:37 Good morning everyone! 03:52:22 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.7] has joined #lisp 03:56:46 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 03:57:40 Where might you be that it is morning? 03:58:31 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:00 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:01:30 sakekasi [~sakekasi@99-28-149-24.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:52 how would I make a macro that is equivalent to lambda but with a different name? (in this case, ) 04:02:24 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:02:37 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-125-145.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:02:38 Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-32-125-145.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:46 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 04:06:50 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-13.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:08:04 myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:10:36 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1D2A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:08 (defmacro  (&rest args) `(lambda ,@args)) 04:11:43 Notice however that if you're the type to write #'(lambda ...), with #'( ...) you lose. 04:12:48 (as you'd deserve it). 04:13:33 use a space cadet keyboard 04:14:21 You may prefer to write a reader macro instead x y . (+ x y) can be read as (lambda (x y) (+ x y)). 04:15:06 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:28 just use C 04:15:29 so #'x y . (+ x y) would work. 04:15:34 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-119-224.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:41 gary-s: At ELS in Hamburg of course. 04:25:36 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@187.59.82.186] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 04:26:27 rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has joined #lisp 04:27:48 madsenz1 [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:35 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:29:46 danieljones [~danieljon@qld13-adsl-181.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:30:52 pjb, how do I write a reader macro? 04:33:05 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:35:05 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:41:52 -!- danieljones [~danieljon@qld13-adsl-181.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:45:35 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled 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-!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:33:05 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-97-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:33:57 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:34:20 good morning 06:35:57 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:36:30 morning splittist, mvilleneuve 06:39:29 -!- gilligan_ [d918cf1a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.24.207.26] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:41:04 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:43:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:44:29 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:45:29 -!- xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:45:38 good morning 06:46:12 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:30 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 06:47:09 ramkrsna 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[~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:29:11 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-119-224.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:30:02 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31:40 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:31:47 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 07:32:07 malbertife [~marcoalbe@81.193.143.218] has joined #lisp 07:35:21 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:40 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-001-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:59 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 07:43:04 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:43:29 aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:46:41 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:46:59 gavin0 [~g@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:23 hi gents 07:47:26 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955CC21.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 07:47:35 youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:36 anyone here ever try to smoothe out vmstat with lisp? 07:47:36 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:47:44 I was inspired by dstat on linux 07:50:51 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 07:54:01 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-216-82.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:55:56 ltriant [~ltriant@203-158-32-3.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:56:30 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 07:57:27 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-96-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:57:42 -!- youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 07:59:43 I wrote a version in tcl 07:59:50 but now am going to do it in clisp 07:59:56 anyone try such? 08:00:03 vmstat and iosta erealyl suck 08:00:23 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-0-160.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:00:24 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:01:45 malbertife_ [~marcoalbe@bl4-143-218.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:01:45 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@81.193.143.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01:45 -!- malbertife_ is now known as malbertife 08:04:23 marijnjh [~user@p5DDB2B5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:33 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-216-82.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 08:08:54 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:04 memechaser [~chris@85.211.7.111] has joined #lisp 08:12:45 -!- memechaser [~chris@85.211.7.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:09 memechaser [~chris@85.211.7.111] has joined #lisp 08:13:25 -!- zomgbie 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[~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:28:10 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-216-82.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:28:16 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-216-82.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 08:29:17 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 08:32:02 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:32:13 cymew [~davour@n150-p67.kthopen.kth.se] has joined #lisp 08:32:35 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 08:33:38 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl4-143-218.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 08:34:21 -!- googol [~matthew@pool-72-87-255-118.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:41:35 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-216-82.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:50:51 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:53 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:37 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755d40.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:36 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 08:55:36 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:00:06 Man, if I didn't have wife and kids I would so apply for that Revenpack Lisp job in Marbella. 09:01:10 do they state that they don't accept married people with children? 09:01:38 jdz: haha, no. i just don't want my kids to move to another country 09:04:19 urandom__ [~user@p548A5A67.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:20 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:05:21 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-216-82.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 09:06:27 danieljones [~danieljon@qld13-adsl-181.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:07:00 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:07:09 Joreji [~thomas@77-22-64-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:08:04 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:10:08 basho___ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-001-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:17 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:10:22 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:10:50 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:11:24 europe's europe. they won't notice a difference. 09:11:31 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:12:08 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 09:12:17 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-001-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:12:29 what are they looking for ? 09:12:48 ZabaQ: http://www.ravenpack.com/aboutus/employment.htm#Lisp 09:13:43 oo...oooo...oooh. I'm so tempted. 09:14:01 But last time I worked in Spain, it didn't work out so well.. 09:14:07 Just remember that a raven pack is a murder. 09:14:33 Zhivago: I thought that was crows.. 09:16:54 You're right -- it's an unkindness of ravens. 09:17:29 -!- JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:19:49 and a loitering with intent of pigeons 09:20:09 -!- madsenz1 [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:21:48 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 09:21:52 youguy [~youguy@1.Red-79-158-63.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:53 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 09:23:37 mvillene1ve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:23:37 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:27:48 madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:52 orivej [~orivej@wi108.fi.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 09:27:56 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:31:05 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:31:39 -!- youguy [~youguy@1.Red-79-158-63.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 09:32:23 slash_1 [~unknown@pD955C02C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:40 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:36 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:36:53 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 09:40:31 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:31 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:45:56 Glav [~Glav@unaffiliated/glav] has joined #lisp 09:48:14 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:39 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:44 -!- orivej [~orivej@wi108.fi.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:49:49 benny` [~benny@i577A184D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:54:06 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:03 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:58:40 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:58:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-22-64-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:59:13 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:41 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:59:47 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:00:36 steevy [~steevy@95-89-218-109-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:01:23 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:27 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 10:02:28 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 10:02:29 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:04:15 -!- benny` is now known as benny 10:04:20 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:05:02 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:05:13 -!- Landr_ is now known as Landr 10:06:48 malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has joined #lisp 10:08:02 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 10:08:26 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Client Quit] 10:09:22 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 10:09:43 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:12:57 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 10:17:04 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 10:18:15 -!- waaaaaargh_ [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d04911b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 10:19:42 Anything new and exciting? 10:20:21 M-x emacs-sentinence-mode? 10:20:24 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:20:31 There will be another Zurich Lisp Meeting next week btw 10:20:49 How come Zurich is a Lisp hotbed? 10:20:53 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-216-82.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:20:55 -!- Glav [~Glav@unaffiliated/glav] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:21:49 Because of its central station 10:22:11 for the rest of the story you have to come :-) 10:22:39 (I'm not kidding with the central station) 10:23:38 5h driving... 10:24:34 antgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 10:25:06 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has joined #lisp 10:25:35 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:27:11 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-245-63-53.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 10:28:37 Xach: Europe isn't homogenous 10:29:07 -!- qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:29:19 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:29:36 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-216-82.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 10:29:45 and in fact a move between countries, especially in case of different spoken language... 10:29:51 qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 10:30:58 I recall having quite a bit of culture shockduring my 2 week stay in Spain, for example 10:31:01 -!- gavin0 [~g@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:41 nah, it's not that bad 10:31:58 depends on one's expectations probably 10:33:24 youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:39 just came back from a week in madrid :-) can't say I'm shocked but I heard the south of spain is more chaotic 10:34:21 I met up with juan garcia-ripoll 10:34:30 to give this discussion a Lisp-spin 10:34:41 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:34:46 tcr: try being there not as a tourist or stay in typical foreigner-ready places, and be in Central Spain at the apogeum of summer... 10:34:49 >_> 10:35:07 46°C *in the bloody shadow* 10:35:18 sounds ok 10:35:18 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:07 p_l|backup: sounds better than Australia 10:36:07 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:41:11 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 10:43:17 -!- youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 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[Changing host] 13:17:04 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:18:07 plage [~user@ssh1.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 13:18:21 Good afternoon everyone! 13:21:11 hihi 13:21:25 -!- LiamH1 is now known as LiamH 13:21:43 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:23:33 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:24:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-22-64-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:27:15 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:27:32 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-134-215.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:28:42 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-171-165.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:30:46 plage: Hello. 13:31:05 'morning 13:31:25 leo2007 [~leo@th041113.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 13:31:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:32:24 MoALTz [~no@92.18.88.125] has joined #lisp 13:32:40 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.20.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:33:23 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:37:01 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:37:01 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:37:01 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 13:38:18 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:38:37 -!- muhdick [~qle@99-14-26-190.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:40:15 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:41:13 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:42:35 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-191.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:44:02 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:22 nyef: Would you like me to sign you up for a lightning talk in an hour? About CLIM 3? 13:44:52 plage: Not a good idea: I'm not there. 13:45:13 If only there were some way to use technology to fix that problem. 13:45:15 There is that minor problem. 13:45:47 to the hover car! 13:46:17 stassats`: ... that just leaves you open to "hover cdr" jokes. 13:46:32 s/car/vehicle/ 13:46:50 tfb [~tfb@92.41.68.235.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:47:05 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:47:51 just make sure there's no eels 13:48:50 plage: a good turnout in HHH? 13:49:02 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:50:00 splittist: Yes, very good in fact. More than 60 people I hear. 13:50:06 -!- danieljones [~danieljon@qld13-adsl-181.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:50:44 Are you coming back via ZRH for Tuesday's ZSLUG at Teclo? 13:51:09 splittist: No, I leave from Paris to HCM on Saturday. 13:51:54 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 13:52:03 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 13:52:03 Makes sense (although I guess ZRH is sort of on the way...) 13:52:27 iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:37 It's just too tight. I need to get to work in HCM ASAP. 13:53:21 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-173648.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 13:55:51 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:56:47 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:24 _pw_ [~user@125.34.41.116] has joined #lisp 14:01:15 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host106-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:01:36 Bronsa [~brace@host106-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:01:51 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:01:53 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-87-47-213.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:37 zomgbie_ [~jesus@85-127-229-109.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:04:21 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-171-165.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:04:46 *sykopomp* wonders if there's a way to override Hunchentoot's default 404 page. 14:05:12 sure there is 14:05:28 there are many ways 14:05:42 I tried writing my own default handler and setting the response to 404, but that seems to trigger the original 404 page :( 14:06:14 MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.88.125] has joined #lisp 14:06:48 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-218-109-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Bye?] 14:07:53 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@85-127-229-109.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:07:56 Xach: Is there a recommended way to do so? 14:08:04 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:08:11 MoALTz__ [~no@92.9.64.77] has joined #lisp 14:08:14 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:31 http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/#*handle-http-errors-p* 14:08:48 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.88.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:08:52 Joreji [~thomas@77-22-64-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:09:05 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:54 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:09:56 Sorry, I completely missed it... thank you. 14:10:17 -!- cymew [~davour@dhcp-221-37.pdc.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:36 MoALTz [~no@92.9.64.77] has joined #lisp 14:11:08 now go fix teepeedee2! 14:11:09 Hunh. *http-error-handler* looks neat, too. 14:11:20 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.88.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:11:31 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-97-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:11:56 Xach: I already pushed my patch -- I just hesitate to make a pull request when I don't currently have an intention to use it. It sounds like he felt pretty strongly about the parenscript issue. 14:12:43 Xach: https://github.com/sykopomp/teepeedee2/commit/1822f159c10686335468168fcef95873cd969dda 14:12:44 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:12:53 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 14:13:23 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@92.9.64.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:19 Do you mind if I point it out to him? 14:14:53 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-206-192.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:15:18 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.192] has joined #lisp 14:15:22 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-172-123.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:16:42 Not at all, although I can't guarantee that it's all it's going to take to have tpd2 fully working. It just loaded. 14:16:50 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:17:20 for me, a build is as good as it gets 14:17:51 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:17:56 (not to mention, the patch will break it wrt the old parenscript) 14:20:34 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:20:42 only one test failure from the test suite, apparently 14:21:08 which doesn't have anything to do with ps, afaict. 14:21:22 *sykopomp* gets back to work. 14:22:09 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has left #lisp 14:22:24 tmh [6348b01a@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 14:22:31 Greetings lispers. 14:22:38 Hello tmh. 14:24:53 A fair amount of my code involves things with units, like degrees, inches, meters, etc. and consequently requires unit conversions. I've toyed around with a units library before, downloaded a fairly complicated one, glunits. What just occurred to me is why not attach units information to the property list for a symbol? 14:25:37 Hello guys. I was reading this article, and I juts got the feeling that the authour was trying to be smarter than his own good. Is it just me, or is the entire article describing a Rube Goldberg version of a closure? 14:25:39 http://blogs.msdn.com/b/wesdyer/archive/2007/02/02/anonymous-recursion-in-c.aspx 14:25:42 tmh: if you want to check the units at compilation time, why not. 14:26:44 loke: it's just you. 14:27:01 Xach: OK, thanks. 14:27:11 pjb: I don't follow, are you saying you can or cannot check the units at compilation time if they are in the property list? 14:27:23 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:27:27 is it just me or it's not about Lisp? 14:27:41 stassats`: it's not just you 14:27:57 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:28:07 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:28:16 tmh: storing the units with the symbols (ie the variables) would be nice if you wanted to check the units at compilation time. 14:28:37 as for me, I was just thinking, what's wrong with something analogous to: (let (f) (setf f #'(lambda (n) ... (f ...))) 14:28:47 pjb: Okay. I've never messed with property lists, so I'm not proficient at using them. 14:28:52 gary-s [~gary@186.42.102.50] has joined #lisp 14:29:02 tmh: the point is that you want to check the units of values. 14:29:04 loke: see http://www.dreamsongs.com/NewFiles/WhyOfY.pdf for some exposition. 14:29:24 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:29:26 tmh: so unless all your unit-ed values are symbols, you want another data type. 14:29:56 (- (/ (kg 3) (square (m 2))) (Pa 1)) 14:30:17 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 14:30:33 Xach: thank you. Reading it. 14:31:18 -!- plage [~user@ssh1.labri.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:25 pjb: Yeah, that's really the crux of the problem. On one hand, the symbols don't have units, the data they refer to does. On the other hand, I'm not really wanting to wrap every float value in some object describing the units. 14:32:49 tmh: you may wrap some expression in a unit checking macro. But property lists are global resources, and symbol name lexical variables. 14:33:22 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Quit: Moving] 14:33:50 (let ((mass 3) (surface (square 2)) (pressure 1)) (check-units ((mass kg) (surface (^ m 2)) (pressure Pa)) (- (/ (kg 3) (square (m 2))) (Pa 1)))) 14:34:01 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-49.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:34:18 tmh: note that a symbol X might denote weight in one function, and speed in another; you cannot attach the units to that symbol unless you always use specific symbols as the variable names same unit values 14:34:23 Of course, you need a code walker, if you want to allow complex code in the body of that macro. 14:34:41 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:58 tmh: You might find what SBCL does for alien-value structures to be interesting. It basically only allocates the wrapper object when it can't prove that it doesn't have to. 14:34:59 damn, my thought train got ahead of my typing 14:35:01 jdz & pjb : And here we go down the rabbit hole. :-) 14:35:49 Yes, having a specific data type seems simplier. 14:35:52 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:35:55 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ezcgvthfnboykufh] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:36:13 -!- gary-s [~gary@186.42.102.50] has left #lisp 14:36:27 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host106-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:36:29 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:36:47 Bronsa [~brace@host106-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:37:17 greaver [~jo@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 14:37:19 not sure how python will handle the potentially very large set of dimension types. 14:37:51 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 14:38:16 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 14:39:46 Heh, like pressure measurements in stones/hides. 14:40:23 Um, not stones, that mass. How about poundals/hides. 14:41:19 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:41:40 regarding units, I think I'd rather make it into a DSL described in Lisp and capable of being mixed in... and a sufficiently-powerful reasoning engine 14:42:38 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:11 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:44:55 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:09 I have pretty simple needs. I could probably get by with some global variable like units:*system* set to a name for a defined set like SI or British. Then, for example, have (inches data &optional (system units:*system*)) and that would cover it. 14:45:33 Xach: thank you for the link. Very informative. I can see the point of the Y-combinator for side-effect-free recursive functions. It is, in fact, a way to create a colsed-over reference to the inner function without any side-effects. The fact that the original authour chose c# was confusing to me, as I've never heard of anyone trying to avoid side effects in that language. 14:45:41 The data would be in units of the system and I would get that converted to inches. 14:45:48 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host106-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:45:52 I knew this channel would be the perfect place to ask about it. Thanks again. 14:46:04 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:47:25 grr [~grr@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 14:48:10 -!- greaver [~jo@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:28 hello. is there a portable way of accessing command line arguments? 14:48:49 trivial-something or the other 14:49:16 grr: it is not standardized, but it is available in all implementations. i don't know if there's a portability library for it. 14:49:24 trivial-shell? 14:49:41 cl-launch provides that info in a normalized way, but as part of a larger project, not as an independent piece of functionality 14:49:49 http://common-lisp.net/project/trivial-shell/ 14:50:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:50:32 tmh: that goes the other way. 14:50:57 pkhuong: Ah, okay, thanks. 14:51:00 clon? 14:51:27 akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:44 grr : You should just focus on the implementation you are using. You would write your own little interface and implement for each implementation as you support them. 14:54:47 *Xach* would still like trivial-argv or similar 14:55:18 Xach: This is lisp, we don't reuse other's code. 14:55:53 roflmao 14:56:06 This is Quicklisp! 14:56:51 what can I use to detect the implementation? 14:57:08 grr: *features* is one way 14:57:19 tmh: damnit, I've been doing it wrong! :P 14:57:20 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:57:37 MoALTz_ [~no@92.9.64.77] has joined #lisp 14:57:44 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:57:58 Maxima has some code to extract command line arguments for all lisps that maxima supports (abcl, ccl, clisp, cmucl, ecl, gcl, sbcl, scl)., 14:58:24 clhs lisp-implementation-type 14:58:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_lisp_i.htm 14:58:29 grr: ^ 14:58:45 zmv: You'll learn... again and again and again... 14:59:11 ah nice 14:59:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:59:32 pmurias [~pawel@89-72-232-106.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 14:59:49 how does performance of sbcl and abcl compare? 15:00:03 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 15:00:03 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 15:00:03 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:00:25 sbcl is one zillion times faster. 15:00:32 pmurias: SBCL is by far much, much faster. At least in my experience so far. Doesn't mean ABCL is slow, though 15:00:35 what interface would you recommend for a portable command line arguments lib? a get/set function? or a variable 15:00:54 grr: i would like a function. setting doesn't make sense to me. 15:01:04 grr: there are some libs out there that do it in declarative way 15:01:30 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.9.64.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:01:39 are there any benchmarks comparing sbcl to say .net? 15:02:06 o.O 15:02:09 how would that work? 15:02:34 hmm, what's the idiom for getting T or NIL from value 15:02:40 (not (null thing)) ? 15:02:42 grr: Everything from a (command-line-arguments) that returns a raw list to a hash table with option names as the keys and the supplied value as the value. 15:02:44 clhs 5.1.3 15:02:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/05_ac.htm 15:02:47 pmurias: I'd say those two are comparable in performance for most applications, though you'd have to do some profiling for the cases where one or the other might call external libs 15:02:53 and i need T or NIL 15:03:11 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.7.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:03:35 How about (and X t) ? 15:03:56 anything that isn't nil is T, no? 15:04:13 yes, i'm using (not (null but i dont like it 15:04:24 (and thing t) should do what you want 15:04:30 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:04:33 pkhuong: somebody here wanted to know if you're as scary as Krystof :D 15:04:41 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:04:43 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:06 Krystof has the Loop of Doom. pkhuong has string-case.lisp 15:05:46 cliki getopt 15:05:53 do you prefer (cadr list) or (nth 2 list) ? 15:05:59 minion: tell grr about getopt 15:06:00 grr: please see getopt: getopt is a library for processing command-line arguments. http://www.cliki.net/getopt 15:06:04 Hunden [~Hunden@141.62.34.64] has joined #lisp 15:06:05 Hundenn [~Hunden@141.62.34.64] has joined #lisp 15:06:13 or rather (nth 1 list) :) 15:06:18 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@141.62.34.64] has quit [Client Quit] 15:06:19 kennyd: (second list)? 15:06:28 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:40 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.7.134] has joined #lisp 15:06:42 ok that one wins 15:06:43 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:43 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:06:43 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:07:17 MoALTz [~no@92.18.71.117] has joined #lisp 15:07:42 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 15:07:54 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has left #lisp 15:08:46 MoALTz__ [~no@92.18.71.117] has joined #lisp 15:09:15 minion thanks 15:09:29 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.9.64.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:09:57 minion: notice that a passably good compile will generate exactly the same code for (not (null x)) (and x t) (when x t), etc. 15:09:58 what other connections do you see? 15:10:09 milanj: notice that a passably good compile will generate exactly the same code for (not (null x)) (and x t) (when x t), etc. 15:10:14 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:10:18 pjb: more siestas for you 15:10:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-22-64-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10:31 talking to bots is one of the signs of lisp dementia 15:10:36 Xach: no, it's erc nick completion... 15:11:27 it's only serious if you think the bots are talking back to you 15:11:42 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.71.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:11:46 milanj: and you can sometimes use the trick of negative logic. Instead of (not (not x)), just use (not x). you just get nil or t instead of t or nil. 15:11:53 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:11:59 minion: Do you talk back to people? 15:11:59 people: you'd have to tell me... my memory circuits are fried 15:12:01 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:12:06 ... clearly. 15:12:08 pjb, sure, this was stylish question, btw. i like (when x t) 15:12:11 SBCL source code contains some declarations inside functions that use VALUES like this: (declare (type unsigned-byte n) (values unsigned-byte)) 15:12:19 Are these portable to other Lisps? 15:12:38 ... a VALUES declaration? 15:12:44 it's an extension 15:12:48 eno [~eno@70.137.166.35] has joined #lisp 15:12:48 -!- eno [~eno@70.137.166.35] has quit [Changing host] 15:12:48 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:12:48 (defmacro nilt (v) `(when ,v t)) 15:12:52 there. fixed it for you 15:12:54 reb: any declaration that is declared is conforming. 15:12:55 declare is standard, no? 15:13:04 #-sbcl (declare (declaration values)) 15:13:06 Where's this actually used? 15:13:24 Because that is definitely unfamiliar to me. 15:13:25 pjb: Sure, but I'm interested in what the effect might be ... 15:13:30 fe[nl]ix: scary how? 15:14:14 nyef: grep for "declare" and run the result through another grep for "values" 15:14:21 ... in the sbcl source code 15:14:30 scary-looking, I suppose 15:14:31 reb: the effect in sbcl is to declare the return type of the function. the effect in other non-CMUCL lisps would be a no-op 15:14:41 reb: that could be declaim or proclaim, more probably. 15:15:01 pjb: Not for a bound declaration, surely? 15:15:18 pjb: Yes, you have to filter those out by eyeballing the output. 15:15:23 I mean for #-sbcl (declaim (declaration values)) 15:15:27 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0022d1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:35 Ah, right. 15:15:36 MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.71.117] has joined #lisp 15:15:36 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.7.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15:53 thanks! 15:16:27 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:16:54 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:17:22 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:17:43 (and x t) is not the same as (not (null x)) 15:17:49 binarin [~binarin@85.93.153.62] has joined #lisp 15:18:22 in what sense? 15:18:25 jdz: a-priori (and x t) is more efficient. But compilers easily inline not and null and produce the same code. 15:18:56 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@92.18.71.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:19:12 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d04911b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:27 stassats: in the sense that if x is not null, x will be returned, instead of t. generalized boolean vs. boolean. 15:19:43 it wouldn't be returned 15:19:48 jdz: no 15:20:03 jdz: if x is not null, t will be returned 15:20:07 MoALTz__ [~no@92.9.72.87] has joined #lisp 15:20:31 oh, OK, i'm wrong 15:20:38 silly me 15:20:38 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-49.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:20:44 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:20:52 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:20:52 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-191.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:54 (coerce x 'boolean) would be nice 15:21:05 yeah 15:21:23 coerce should have been made a gf :-) 15:22:22 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.71.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:22:23 (and x t) expands to (if x (the t t) nil) 15:22:35 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:35 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:22:35 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:22:35 sometimes. 15:22:38 (when x t) expands to (if x (progn t) nil) 15:22:52 loke: you should better use disassemble than macroexpand. 15:22:53 (well, oops... I thought I was on #sbcl :-) 15:22:58 I pretty much never use coerce. Even for turning a value into a double float it seems I grew the habit to use (float 1d0) instead for some strange reason 15:23:04 (disassemble (compile nil (lambda (x) (and x t)))) (disassemble (compile nil (lambda (x) (not (not x))))) 15:23:35 clhs coerce 15:23:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_coerce.htm 15:24:00 tcr: the second argument to coerce is a type specifier, which may not be a plain symbol 15:24:12 Anyhow. SBCL generates identical code. 15:24:53 i find coerce useful when you want to generate a function from lambda-expression, but your lisp supports non-compiled functions 15:25:03 gary-s_ [~gary@186.42.102.50] has joined #lisp 15:25:07 -!- gary-s_ [~gary@186.42.102.50] has left #lisp 15:25:18 so (coerce '(lambda ()) 'function) would be different from (compile nil '(lambda ())) 15:25:22 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:25:39 other than that, it's better to end up with the desired type in the first place 15:25:44 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 15:25:44 jdz: so what? 15:26:13 maybe something a la pprint-dispatch then :-) 15:27:02 or a subtypep method specializer :-) the myriads of obscure possibilities is endless 15:27:15 type coercion protocol! 15:28:50 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@92.9.72.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:29:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:30:36 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 15:31:43 carlocci [~locci__@93.37.197.136] has joined #lisp 15:32:18 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:32:24 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:34 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 15:34:26 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:26 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:34:26 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:35:42 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:36:07 Hermanski [~b@c-c3cae253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:36:20 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 15:38:53 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:39:17 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:39:46 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 15:39:51 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:39:59 Joreji [~thomas@77-22-64-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:40:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:41:28 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.250.6] has joined #lisp 15:42:04 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:42:58 Okay, spec interpretation request time! Is (pop (values x y)) supposed to error out because there are too many values in the PLACE, supposed to set Y to NIL, or something else? 15:43:15 (Something else would include "ignore Y".) 15:43:46 spec aside, would you ever use this? 15:44:12 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:44:16 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 15:44:24 I don't know that I would. Entirely not the point. 15:45:05 But I think I can make a pretty good argument that it should set Y to NIL. 15:45:58 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:01 my point is not to waste time on language lawyering for things which never come up in the code 15:46:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-49.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:47:26 And my point is that I'm reasonably confident that SBCL is Doing Something Wrong here. 15:47:43 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48:28 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:49:40 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:50:28 koning_robot [~user@s5597d50c.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #lisp 15:51:05 nyef: Y to nil sounds pretty good to me. 15:51:15 http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/sec_5-1-2-3.html 15:51:42 That looks fairly unambiguous. 15:51:43 Yes, exactly! 15:51:47 Buganini [~buganini@163.22.93.132] has joined #lisp 15:51:53 But try it in SBCL? 15:52:44 Guess I've got something to do this afternoon. 15:52:45 nyef: you might want to talk about that on #sbcl 15:52:54 I don't have sbcl handy :( 15:53:32 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:54:16 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:43 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:54:48 loke: Not really. The critical question is a matter of interpreting the hyperspec, not anything particularly SBCL-related, even if the motivation is due to having found something in SBCL. 15:54:52 Seems to work in SBCL though: 15:54:55 rlb3 [~rlb@2620:0:28a0:2200:ad54:1706:7efb:bf8a] has joined #lisp 15:55:00 CL-USER> (let ((a 10) (b 11)) (setf (values a b) 100) (list a b)) 15:55:01 (100 NIL) 15:55:14 i see no PUSH 15:55:18 Or pop. 15:55:27 Ooh. sorry. 15:55:28 or rather, yes, pop 15:55:30 (macroexpand-1 '(pop (values x y))) => SIMPLE-ERROR. 15:55:35 I should learn to read 15:55:39 PUSH would fail similarly, btw. 15:55:46 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:46 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:55:46 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:56:07 Interesting that it says: "GET-SETF-METHOD used for a form with multiple store variables" 15:56:14 when it works with setf 15:56:37 But SETF uses GET-SETF-EXPANSION, not GET-SETF-METHOD. 15:57:05 I see. 15:57:11 -!- Buganini [~buganini@163.22.93.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:30 nyef: just out of curiousity, did you actually write code that tried to do this? 15:57:37 -!- woudshoo [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:57:46 Yes, the macroexpand-1 call above. 15:58:01 But I didn't until after I figured out that it was wrong. 15:58:24 nyef: yeah, but did you do it because you actually needed it in your application, or was it just experimenting and toying around? 15:59:23 I'm asking because I would never even have thought about trying it. :-) (then again, I'm not a very experienced Lisp programmer) 16:00:26 It's not code that a human would likely produce. 16:00:34 A macro, on the other hand ... 16:00:44 -!- marijnjh [~user@p5DDB2B5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 16:00:53 -!- tmh [6348b01a@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:00:54 The path actually went something like "how does describe deal with complex setf-expanders" -> "how does defsetf actually work" -> "what's this get-setf-method thing that's a holdover from cmucl?" -> "hey, get-setf-method is only used in this one file, maybe I can get rid of it?" -> "what's all this mess with push, pop and such?" 16:01:14 Thence to "is that really a limitation of POP as specified?" 16:01:18 danieljones [~danieljon@qld13-adsl-181.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 16:01:28 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:01:48 I think (incf (values x y) (foo)) and (push (foo) (values x y)) to increment/push to both places would be sensible things I would have used in past 16:02:18 tcr: Not defined that way, unfortunately. 16:02:20 (not that it's something the standard allows) 16:02:32 And, actually, define-modify-macro also uses get-setf-method. Eesh. 16:02:54 I agree with you the last time I looked at SBCL's setf stuff I noticed something not to be completely right either 16:03:06 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:12 -!- CrazyEddy [~promagist@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:03:21 I forgot what it was though and I didn't care to fix it back then 16:03:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:03:46 Mmm. Ever use DESCRIBE on a long-form DEFSETF function? 16:04:10 Just gives you the docstring, if there is one, no arglist, no list of values to be set. 16:04:17 can't say I ever used defsetf or define-setf-expander 16:04:48 CLISP handles it though. 16:04:49 I don't use define-modify-macro either, I use defmacro + callf which is an easier mental model and sufficient for most tasks 16:04:53 Similar result with define-setf-expander, just the docstring, not the arglist (the list of values to be set is consed up at runtime and can easily be controlled by the arguments). 16:05:21 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 16:05:21 *stassats* gets around with setf functions and setf methods usually 16:05:30 yeah 16:05:34 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:05:42 Of course, setf methods are single-value only. 16:05:48 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has joined #lisp 16:06:02 (Same with setf functions, for that matter.) 16:06:43 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:49 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-206-192.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:07:04 Can I define a global lexical variable in SBCL without warnings? 16:07:11 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:16 kenjin2201: DEFGLOBAL. It's in the manual. 16:07:26 Thank you 16:07:33 I also happen to find it a fairly odd thing to want to have, but whatever. 16:08:05 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.13] has joined #lisp 16:08:29 wait that's not the same as a global lexical variable 16:08:46 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 16:08:47 Oh, right, it's the always-thread-local-bound thing? 16:09:03 Something like that. 16:09:04 thread-global? 16:09:04 always-bound-cannot-rebind 16:09:08 ? 16:09:15 Eesh. 16:09:18 kenjin2201: Search for deflex in comp.lang.lisp 16:09:30 Thank you, I will 16:09:41 Why do people keep wanting lexically-bindable variables with a global value? 16:10:17 because it's missing? 16:10:31 to cause confusion? 16:10:33 nyef : It's in "on lisp" 267 page. That's all 16:10:40 xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has joined #lisp 16:11:11 CrazyEddy [~undeliber@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:11:44 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:12:13 PG to the rescue 16:12:15 :) 16:12:21 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 16:12:25 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:51 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:07 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:13:10 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:16:12 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:17:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:18:13 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082A73B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:20 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 16:18:56 Heh. I think I can improve the status quo on DESCRIBE as well, though possibly not to the point I want. 16:19:06 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:19:19 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:19:27 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:27 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:19:27 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:21:48 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.7.134] has joined #lisp 16:21:59 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B32725E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:22:18 loomer [~loomer@pool-173-79-230-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:18 -!- loomer [~loomer@pool-173-79-230-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:22:18 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 16:23:52 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA24DC8.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:25:10 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:25:25 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:13 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d04911b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 16:27:45 Bronsa [~brace@host106-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:28:15 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:15 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:28:15 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:29:25 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:29:29 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:37 -!- carlocci [~locci__@93.37.197.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:33:18 -!- danieljones [~danieljon@qld13-adsl-181.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:33:20 HG` [~HG@dslb-094-220-127-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:41 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-184-204-132.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:30 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:36 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-yctabjbgdtlqoqbp] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:38:07 -!- antgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:53 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:40:04 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:45:10 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:45:30 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:45:49 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:49 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:45:49 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:46:01 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-191.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:50:52 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:51:06 rread [~rread@c-98-234-218-55.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:42 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 16:53:53 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:57:25 pnq [~nick@host-130.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 16:57:57 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:58:18 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 16:58:54 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@2620:0:28a0:2200:ad54:1706:7efb:bf8a] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:59:09 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:59:53 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:53 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:59:53 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:01:12 I've probably said this before, but this time I mean it... it's time to figure out how to make my hunchentoot server a bit more ... resilient. anyone have any pointers to increasing the reliability of a hunchentoot server? 17:01:20 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: aqway] 17:01:40 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@141.62.34.64] has quit [Quit: • :: www.unitedservers.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::] 17:02:01 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:11 some kind of a watchdog? 17:02:24 slyrus: run it behind nginx? 17:02:32 *Xach* hasn't had trouble with his hunchentoot or tbnl servers 17:02:46 -!- rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:01 why use nginx? 17:03:15 nginx has a prettier config file than other things i've tried. 17:03:16 indeed, i use lighttpd! 17:03:25 i have not tried lighttpd. 17:03:29 stassats: I suppose I could use a watchdog, but I'd prefer it if it just didn't crash as often 17:03:42 also, when i use nginx, i feel like my website is strong, like russian bear. 17:03:50 mrSpec [~Spec@dslc-082-082-129-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@dslc-082-082-129-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:03:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:04:03 but why the need for a reverse proxy server in the first place? 17:04:14 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:04:26 I'm not so worried about fielding millions of requests per second, I just don't want the thing to do every few weeks 17:04:40 do you use the single-threaded hunchentoot acceptor? 17:04:49 s/do/die/; # ? 17:05:07 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:05:30 slyrus: i use nginx not just for reverse proxying to lisp, but also for serving image files. 17:05:33 yes Odin-, thanks, die every few weeks 17:05:44 -!- leo2007 [~leo@th041113.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Quit: restart] 17:05:49 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:05:49 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:51 Xach: because ht's static file serving is too slow? 17:06:09 well, lisp is slow, isn't it? 17:06:22 slyrus: it just seemed like the thing to do. 17:06:35 I didn't benchmark and decide. 17:06:57 How is your hunchentoot crashing? 17:07:07 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:07 When I ran my homebrew blog software on HT it would periodically give up the ghost seemingly due to running out of memory. 17:08:16 I put it down to my own crappy blog software. 17:08:19 But who knows. 17:08:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:59 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:09:05 Has Conrad Barksi written any publically available Lisp code other than in his book and Casting Spels? 17:09:10 i'd imagine running sbcl with --disable-debugger in a loop 17:10:07 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 17:10:13 stassats: who was that addressed to? 17:10:35 to anyone who wants to restart HT when it dies 17:10:58 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-59-207.xnet.hr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:11:11 So you mean a loop outside of SBCL. Like in a shell script or whatever? 17:11:18 yes 17:11:40 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:12:05 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:12:40 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:13:05 -!- zmv [~daniel@c934ad95.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:14:38 rvirding [~chatzilla@200.57.93.65] has joined #lisp 17:16:42 a classic robust solution (: 17:16:49 gko [~gko@111.81.75.114] has joined #lisp 17:17:28 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:57 *nyef* points out that lisppaste, an araneida-based server hiding behind a reverse proxy, rarely gets restarted by its shell-script-loop. 17:18:37 eno [~eno@70.137.166.35] has joined #lisp 17:18:37 -!- eno [~eno@70.137.166.35] has quit [Changing host] 17:18:37 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:19:00 (The lesson here is -not- to use araneida instead of hunchentoot.) 17:19:17 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:19:53 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-muvymhbwbzwjsqzb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:20:56 nyef: why it doesn't start back? 17:21:07 It rarely needs it. 17:21:27 Sure, if I logged in, attached to the screen, and hit C-d, it'd bounce right back 17:21:45 But it doesn't need to happen very often. 17:21:48 Ah, I thought it was some issue about the restart script not working 17:21:53 hah 17:22:24 AIUI, the reverse proxy does a lot to protect a more fragile server from abuse. 17:22:31 (a surprisingly common thing due to sockets *not* unbinding after the process dies) 17:22:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-49.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:22:54 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-64-88.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 17:23:20 ... SO_REUSEADDR or whatever it's called, surely? 17:23:56 nyef: if you remember to set it up... 17:24:11 I'm of an opinion that such stuff should be set by default 17:24:39 but well, the BSD socket mechanism is fundamentally broken by design (in Unix, at least), so... 17:25:33 I'd invite you to expound on that last, but I'm hacking away at various read-modify-write macros based on get-setf-method^H^H^H^H^H^Hexpansion. 17:25:46 ... and that's why no programs can access the internet 17:26:13 nyef: it's a hack that is one foot in Unix I/O, one foot in TOPS-20 17:26:37 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:27:06 we eagerly await your replacement socket API 17:27:07 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:27:24 that's teclo's job 17:28:02 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.68.235.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:28:53 dlowe: it's already been done - the Plan 9 #ip server IMHO beats BSD in all that is actually comonly used (and the rest is probably in parts I didn't read about) 17:29:16 From CLiki page: "Araneida has not been under active development for a long time. Seems like hunchentoot is the prime web development framework in recent years." 17:29:36 Does it mean nobody had time to update CLiki and lisppaste since Araneida died? 17:29:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-22-64-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:29:55 naryl: If it ain't broke. 17:29:55 Nobody cared to: It's called a "legacy system". 17:30:31 It's not broken, and it's not even particularly horrible. 17:30:42 (by less common stuff I mean things like OOB signaling) 17:30:44 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:30:49 Xach: CLiki is on the brink of brokenness. 17:31:09 naryl: On the brink in what respect? 17:31:42 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 17:31:51 Glav [~Glav@unaffiliated/glav] has joined #lisp 17:31:52 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 17:31:56 naryl: running on hunchentoot would not improve what's wrong with cliki 17:32:09 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:32:13 yes 17:32:13 Well, maybe a bit. 17:32:30 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:30 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:32:30 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:33:44 bj0ern [~bpaschen@212.23.103.0] has joined #lisp 17:34:36 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:40:40 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:42:10 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:42:43 -!- Landr [Landr@78-22-145-87.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 17:44:51 TippenEin [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:03 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:45 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 17:47:21 Why does (nth 3 '(a b c)) => NIL Whereas (elt '(a b c) 3) => error and (setf (nth 3 '(a b c)) 'q) => error 17:47:22 naryl, Xach, etc: cliki2 may be of note... http://github.com/archimag/cliki2 http://cliki2.lisper.ru/ 17:48:05 It would be nice if vsedach called his fork something else. 17:48:18 Oh, archimag? 17:48:41 Xach: Yes, it's been spearheaded by archimag. vsedach and andy128k have done some hacking but it's mostly him AFAICT. 17:48:43 MoALTz [~no@92.18.81.6] has joined #lisp 17:48:55 Xach: Hence it being built on RESTAS and plugins, etc. 17:49:08 mon_key: because that is how it is specified. 17:49:27 Though I'm still waiting for the almighty quicklisp web lib browser + custom dists, etc... ;) 17:50:14 Xach: I'm sorry i don't find a spec for (setf (nth list) val) => error 17:50:28 eno [~eno@70.137.166.35] has joined #lisp 17:50:28 -!- eno [~eno@70.137.166.35] has quit [Changing host] 17:50:28 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:50:39 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:51:39 mon_key: (setf (nth n list) new-object) == (setf (car (nthcdr n list)) new-object) 17:51:47 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:52:08 Ah. Thanks! 17:52:20 steevy [~steevy@95-89-218-109-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:52:33 So, the spec. was indirect via nthcdr. 17:54:13 Xach: it would be nice if cliki (and common-lisp.net) were shown a little love 17:54:31 Seems like common-lisp.net is getting loved soon. 17:54:41 oh? 17:54:47 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-49.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:54:57 lots of chatter on the admin list about upgrades, improvements, and things like that. 17:55:00 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:55:07 ah, I'm not on that list 17:55:11 ehu and others are working on it. 17:55:11 There's been discussion, at least in #tech.coop and probably on a mailing list or two, about upgrading from whatever old debian they're running now. 17:55:12 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C789F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:40 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 17:55:40 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 17:55:40 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 17:55:50 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:50 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:55:50 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:56:08 Great fun: (PRINT '`(LET* (,@FOO))) 17:56:31 hmm... is there some "raw string" lib anyone can recommend to me right now? 17:56:40 p_l|backup: what would a raw string lib do? 17:56:50 More fun: (PRINT '`(LET* (,@FOO (BAR BAZ)))) 17:57:47 Xach: something like "here" documents in Bourne shell 17:57:55 I need to embed a bit of JSON in source 17:58:18 and keeping up with escapes is annoying 17:58:31 there's a cl-heredoc somewhere 17:58:52 ah, right over -> there 17:59:01 *Xach* has forgotten more than half the things he added to quicklisp 17:59:53 -!- bj0ern [~bpaschen@212.23.103.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:59:53 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.75.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:59:53 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:27 hmm... CL-INTERPOL fits as well 18:00:28 gko [~gko@111.81.123.71] has joined #lisp 18:01:27 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:02:16 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 18:02:57 ``Erik [~erik@BRLCAD.ORG] has joined #lisp 18:03:23 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:36 In double-backquote, a double-comma means to insert the value of the form returned by the form following the double-comma, right? 18:05:02 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:06:22 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-245-63-53.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:26 nyef: seems that way. 18:06:41 eno [~eno@70.137.166.35] has joined #lisp 18:06:41 -!- eno [~eno@70.137.166.35] has quit [Changing host] 18:06:41 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:07:07 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 18:08:01 Hoornet [~Hoornet@93.103.24.156] has joined #lisp 18:08:08 ... I should have simply generated the JSON from plist >_> 18:08:25 -!- Hoornet [~Hoornet@93.103.24.156] has quit [Client Quit] 18:08:29 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has joined #lisp 18:09:47 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:18 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-38-186.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 18:10:38 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:11:23 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:54 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:12:43 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:43 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:12:43 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:13:02 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:15:44 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:16:03 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:17:18 ... I have a weird feeling I just stumbled into a bug in SBCL 18:17:44 That's always my first thought when I don't get the results I expect. 18:18:20 Xach: the stacktrace is what makes me think that 18:18:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:18:46 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:46 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:18:46 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:19:06 p_l pasted "wtf? weird bug" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121044 18:19:07 Joreji [~thomas@77-22-64-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:16 that, or I somehow invoked some symbol 18:20:24 <|3b|> check *inferior-lisp* for more backtraces? 18:20:36 billitch [~billitch@APuteaux-551-1-81-194.w92-132.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:20:38 ahhh 18:20:46 -!- Glav [~Glav@unaffiliated/glav] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:21:22 there's an error in error, i reckon 18:21:22 fixed it 18:21:38 There's always at least one error in error. 18:22:10 p_l annotated #121044 "fixed" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121044#1 18:22:31 cl-json followed symbol NULL into closer-mop >_> 18:23:40 that doesn't make sense 18:24:39 argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.174.47] has joined #lisp 18:25:56 Evious [~n_a@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:19 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:26:41 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:27:32 p_l|backup: I recommend st-json! 18:27:47 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 18:27:53 is it for smalltalk? 18:27:57 antifuchs: I tested both, cl-json was nicer for what I was doing 18:27:59 it's by streamtech 18:28:11 (another fine Marijn Haverbeke library) (: 18:28:18 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 18:28:20 p_l|backup: unpossible! (: 18:28:33 p_l|backup: too bad... I really like st-json (: 18:28:37 (that is, the API fit my goals better, though I'd probably go with st-json if I was going to write a full library for MQL) 18:28:37 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:37 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-166-35.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:28:37 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:29:02 mql, is that freebase? 18:29:47 yes 18:29:48 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 18:29:54 (it has fewer bugs, IME) (: 18:30:01 I'm only doing enough to fit my query 18:30:53 *stassats`* has some code for reading freebase lying around somewhere 18:31:18 ad-hocish as well 18:32:07 lanthan [~ze@p54B7F520.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:17 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-38-186.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:33:24 -!- Areil [~Areil@123.21.161.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:33:36 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7F520.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:35:00 lanthan [~ze@p54B7F520.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:41 hmm... I might go for st-json, after all 18:37:09 though that structure type is annoying a little 18:39:47 adobriyan [~ad@vulture2-nat-45.telecom.by] has joined #lisp 18:40:27 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.7.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:42:49 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:43:55 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:44:48 p_l|backup: freebase has major cool factor in my book simple b/c of Jimmy Hillis 18:44:49 googol [~matthew@pool-72-87-255-118.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:17 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 18:45:36 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:45:42 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-218-109-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Bye?] 18:45:58 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-103-198.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 18:46:10 jimmy wales? 18:46:15 danny hillis? 18:46:15 no. 18:46:18 yep 18:46:28 sorry... namlysexia 18:47:11 disnomia? 18:47:26 ... lol 18:47:38 :) thats a real word! 18:49:18 A word I wanted to use recently was "disutile". 18:50:22 -!- Liera [~user@123.21.161.210] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:50:39 e.g. disutile.lisp ? 18:52:07 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:52:14 Anyone here read Land of Lisp yet? 18:52:24 As in "DESCRIBE output for complex SETF expanders is somewhat disutile". 18:52:25 *Xach* has it on his bedside table, has not yet read it 18:53:31 I'm part way into it. 18:54:12 gigamonkey: skimmed it only 18:54:39 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:40 *Xach* also has Let Over Lambda on the table, on top of LoL 18:55:56 I have a new theory about Lisp books. Collectively they're like the blind men describing the elephant. 18:56:24 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:56:46 *nyef* remembers the story of the five blind elephants and the man. 18:57:05 *gigamonkey* imagines the man was pretty squished. 18:57:06 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 18:57:15 (Punch-line: Universal agreement that "men are flat.") 18:57:24 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-103-198.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:58:06 -!- billitch [~billitch@APuteaux-551-1-81-194.w92-132.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:58:42 Okay, got a clean build on my changes, but I'm now of the opinion that they are overly ambitious for a single patch and should have been done in two steps. 18:58:43 Apparently rule #1 in elephant training is never stand between the elephant and anything solid (e.g. don't walk through a doorway next to the elephant) as a slight shift of their weight and you become HumanGoo. 18:59:28 You're supposed to save your animal training stories for conference dinners. 19:00:23 gigamonkey: does that theory describe PCL? 19:00:35 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:00:44 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:49 cymew [~davour@c83-255-37-246.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:00:55 stassats`: no doubt. Though I like to think that I have a slightly more sane perspective on the beast than at least some authors. 19:01:14 But, of course I'd think that. 19:02:19 gigamonkey: the elephant of lisp-the-family? 19:02:40 Xach: even just the elephant of Common Lisp. 19:05:59 gigamonkey: and CLHS is the description of the DNA of that elephant. 19:06:34 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:07:44 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has left #lisp 19:09:53 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:10:21 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 19:11:31 pnq1 [~nick@AC816B15.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:13:03 silenius [~silenus@p54946739.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:48 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:14:22 what does the SB-PCL::%VARIABLE-REBINDING declaration do? Why is it included, eg in the expansion of with-accessors? When I rebind a var in one of my macros, is there anything to be gained by including it or some publically similar declaration? 19:14:36 M-. didnt help me 19:15:28 grep might help you, as it's obviously internal to the SBCL implementation of CLOS. 19:15:45 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:17:27 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:18:03 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 19:18:31 -!- tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-njisjhhddpmsuqmi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:19:25 rlb3 [~rlb@2620:0:28a0:2200:9cd0:789e:d5ce:984e] has joined #lisp 19:19:36 Soulman1 [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:19:46 jokoon [~eio@feu30-1-82-242-58-229.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:21 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 19:21:35 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:22:05 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:22:25 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 19:22:33 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 19:22:41 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.203.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:23:18 cmm [~cmm@109.65.203.181] has joined #lisp 19:23:44 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has joined #lisp 19:23:50 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host106-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:25:15 ergh.... MQL is horrible 19:25:16 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:25:18 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 19:25:34 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@2620:0:28a0:2200:9cd0:789e:d5ce:984e] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:25:53 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:25:53 -!- jokoon [~eio@feu30-1-82-242-58-229.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:25:55 systemaddict [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:21 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:28:20 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:34:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-22-64-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:34:28 -!- pmurias [~pawel@89-72-232-106.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:18 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:29 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:36:00 SirPsychoS [~sp@c-24-13-132-130.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:47 pmurias [~pawel@89-72-232-106.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 19:37:10 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01347a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:31 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-167-210.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:38:23 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:39:02 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:39:44 hi 19:39:55 Hello. 19:39:58 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:26 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:24 ... since when first argument to assoc must be a LIST ? 19:42:45 bj0ern [~bpaschen@a89-183-84-223.net-htp.de] has joined #lisp 19:43:17 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:43:45 do you count from 0? 19:43:46 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 19:44:46 antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-muuwebxqcbttcgkw] has joined #lisp 19:45:04 nope, just found out that I somehow passed a CONS instead of proper list and the error message was misleading 19:45:13 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:46:23 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 19:46:32 so is the description you're giving now. 19:46:51 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 19:47:26 -!- cymew [~davour@c83-255-37-246.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:49:06 Bronsa [~brace@host106-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:49:19 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:52:03 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:52:05 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-103-229.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 19:53:28 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:54:22 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:54:43 Matt_S_G [kwd@178.73.198.130] has joined #lisp 19:56:25 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:57:02 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:58:13 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:59:03 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:59:04 myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 19:59:51 orivej [~orivej@host-117-146-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 20:01:04 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-191.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:09 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:03:21 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:11 silenius_ [~silenus@p4FC22835.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:03 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:06:05 -!- silenius [~silenus@p54946739.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:50 -!- Spion__ [~spion@77.29.250.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:07 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:07:45 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:08:55 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 20:09:05 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:09:36 -!- grr [~grr@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout)] 20:10:41 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:12:12 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:12:13 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-103-229.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:12:34 Joreji [~thomas@77-22-64-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:13:55 oconnore1 [~Eric@adsl-80-215-113.mcn.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:17 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@203-158-32-3.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:17:35 Is there a portable way to specify what :if-exists :rename will rename the existing file to? 20:18:16 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:18:41 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:11 mon_key: no 20:23:50 mon_key: well, it depends on what you mean by portable, and what you mean by specify. :-) 20:23:51 *gigamonkey* is always leery of answering questions of the form "is there a way" when he thinks the answer is no. 20:24:30 Hmmmm. I wonder how much it would cost to buy back the printing right to PCL from Apress. 20:24:49 mon_key: simple cases will be reasonably portable for POSIX systems for example. Hairy pathname voodoo will probably not be portable. 20:25:15 -!- oconnore1 [~Eric@adsl-80-215-113.mcn.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:26:38 tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.69.191] has joined #lisp 20:26:40 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:26:46 prxq: what are you talking about--is there *any* way to specify a renaming scheme in the call to OPEN or WITH-OPEN-FILE (what I assume mon_key is asking about) 20:27:30 -!- Matt_S_G [kwd@178.73.198.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:47 I've file a wishlist on SBCL launchpad that describes a situation: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/746708 20:28:05 -!- HG` [~HG@dslb-094-220-127-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:28:50 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 20:28:50 gigamonkey: good question. mon_key: scratch that. I've no idea what I'm talking about. Sorry. 20:29:03 gigamonkey: I am new to Common Lisp. I read the first half of Land of Lisp and switched to reading your book. 20:29:04 gigamonkey, prxq: I know how to deal with the situation from user-code - Just seems like a reasonable thing to want to do. 20:29:19 process: just out of curiosity, why? 20:29:33 bsod1 [~osa1@88.245.25.207] has joined #lisp 20:29:38 That is, why did you switch? 20:30:14 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@88.245.25.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:15 -!- antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-muuwebxqcbttcgkw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:43 gigamonkey: I'm not sure that I can give a well-considered answer that would be fair to Land of Lisp without looking at it again. 20:32:04 process: fair enough. 20:32:10 -!- orivej [~orivej@host-117-146-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:33:05 orivej [~orivej@host-106-146-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 20:33:25 process: personal opinion or preference doesn't need to be particularly well-considered or fair, as many internet fora prove (: 20:33:35 I recall that I found that it jumped around without well-considered pacing, had a sort of frenetic gestalt. 20:33:39 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:39 (but if you don't want to tell, that's fine of course) (: 20:33:55 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:34:18 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:40 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:48 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:14 I'm looking at it now, will reply in a moment. 20:39:51 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-191.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:40:43 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host106-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:40:44 One thing that is significant about reading PCL is that it continues to renew my sense of why I am learning Common Lisp, why I am bothering to learn Emacs after using vi for over a decade. 20:41:39 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:41:55 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:52 whereas Land of Lisp has a weird mix of assuming that I know why I am learning the language, but also assuming that I know almost nothing about programming. 20:44:12 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C789F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:59 for all the good information in Land of Lisp, there is so much fluff and distraction that I go into skimming mode 20:46:02 tmh [6348b01a@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 20:46:09 Greetings lispers 20:46:10 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:47:16 whereas I have been reading every word of PCL, even if I haven't felt the need to go through many of the early exercises 20:47:18 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:47:57 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:48:22 i think the reason the code in land of lisp my be not of the best quality is because Conrad Barski didn't communicate with the "non-existent" community enough 20:48:47 you can't feel the language if you don't know the speakers 20:49:14 He makes quite a few claims along the lines of "most experienced Lispers do X" which I found a bit odd. 20:49:14 wheras gigamonkey consulted with #lisp and c.l.l, that's why it's more "practical", or say "realistical" 20:50:05 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:50:10 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5A67.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:22 stassats`: I come across c.l.l posts circa 2002-2004 practically daily where i find some discussion that made it directly into PCL 20:50:46 s|k|a [~s|k|a@89.108.133.108] has joined #lisp 20:50:47 -!- silenius_ is now known as silenius 20:51:03 so, if you want to write a good book, you need to do some research and field work 20:51:24 and make sure to consult stassats` :P 20:51:38 that's very flattering 20:51:41 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-172-123.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:51:59 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC22835.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:20 silenius [~silenus@p4FC22835.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:30 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52:36 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:52:44 PCL is very well paced and written and conveys a great deal of respect for and excitement about the language 20:52:59 *gigamonkey* blushes 20:53:01 that's some advertisement-talk 20:53:12 -!- googol [~matthew@pool-72-87-255-118.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:53:18 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 20:53:32 -!- adobriyan [~ad@vulture2-nat-45.telecom.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:26 This is the most recent one: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/769e68e84ca1c6c4 20:54:30 It may be that I've just spent several months writing a very complex system in JavaScript that would have -really- benefitted from macros, but I feel enthusiastic reading PCL, which is not an emotion I commonly attribute to programming books. 20:54:33 stassats`: well, PCL was the first book that managed to teach me lisp... 20:55:15 which made me chuckle given the punt in the footnote of PCL pg 161 20:56:05 also I have been tutoring a very intelligent friend in programming using both Python and JavaScript. he started reading PCL online after he saw me reading the book, and even as a novice he finds Common Lisp as explained in PCL to make much more sense to him as a programming language 20:56:20 "Macro parameter lists do support one parameter type, &environment parameters, which DESTRUCTURING-BIND doesn't. However, I didn't discuss that parameter type in Chapter 8, and you don't need to worry about it now either." :) 20:59:03 Let Over Lambda is quite good too, unfortunate that it shares the same acronym with Land of Lisp 20:59:14 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-167-210.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:39 eh, books, nothing beats writing code for a couple of years 21:00:27 stassats`: hahaha, you know that this can go horribly wrong right? (: 21:01:01 antifuchs: i wish i din't know! 21:01:13 practice without guidance is practicing the wrong thing most of the time /-: 21:01:21 books have the merit of enabling one to learn and think about new stuff without staring at a lightbulb 21:01:27 process: Different acronyms. LOL vs LoL 21:01:34 but, you know what i meant 21:01:45 sykopomp: this channel is not case-sensitive 21:01:56 process: Lisp is case-sensitive. 21:02:01 worse, it upcases by default (: 21:02:06 :D 21:02:38 antifuchs: Allegro's documentation calls Common Lisp case-sensitive! For shame! 21:03:03 err, case-insensitive*** 21:03:16 *sykopomp* is correctness-insensitive. 21:04:15 sykopomp: that's modern mode 21:04:23 oh. 21:04:26 sykopomp: yeah, we know... it's a mess (: 21:04:46 changing this would result in drama that we are ill-equipped to deal with, so we don't (: 21:04:48 who *** ever thought lisp needs a modern mode 21:04:49 <|3b|> well, uppercasing by default is pretty insensitive to the poor oppressed lowercase letters 21:04:56 I have to say, the single most disruptive, discouraging thing that Common Lisp has working against it is Scheme. 21:04:58 pnq2 [~nick@host-164.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 21:05:06 *stassats`* usess passe-mode 21:05:14 process: I would have said clojure (: 21:05:18 -!- pnq [~nick@host-130.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:05:31 but racket seems to be coming along very nicely too 21:05:34 i don't know, i can happily use scheme and common lisp at the same time 21:05:38 -!- pnq2 is now known as pnq 21:05:42 the cool thing about competition is that it keeps you on your toes (: 21:06:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-49.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:06:38 *stassats`* despises racket 21:07:12 it looks as large as CL, but not as nice 21:07:22 I should clarify: Scheme dominated my perception of Lisp for a long time, and never seemed like a good candidate for a working language 21:07:40 I would like to play with Scheme but I don't think I can give up SLIME. 21:08:09 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:09 gigamonkey: slime works with gambit scheme fwiw 21:08:38 *stassats`* wrote a swank-backend for the scheme of his choice, Gauche 21:08:54 it's easy to write one 21:08:55 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.174.47] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:09:29 stassats`: you wrote guache? 21:09:40 I'm struggling with giving up vim to embrace SLIME 21:09:42 *p_l|backup* needs to check if he has a copy of Gentle on hand 21:09:58 mon_key: no, i merely chose it 21:10:06 process: it gets easier once you start seriously prodding the lisp image 21:10:18 hmmm, only the PDF 21:10:28 as it is with Python I restart my REPL so often that I can see the value 21:10:33 process: things like the inspector, debugger and completion are the best part in slime, and I don't know of any equivalent outside it 21:11:08 antifuchs: allegro doesn't have it? 21:11:22 gigamonkey: is Apress no longer printing PCL? 21:11:35 I'm curious why you mentioned purchasing the rights from them 21:11:47 stassats`: well sure 21:12:01 stassats`: I meant, outside special-purpose environments (: 21:12:10 beside these, slime has many little things which are very helpful 21:12:18 and many of them are little-known 21:12:26 (I prefer slime to the IDE any day) (: 21:12:41 stassats`: time for a series of blog posts! 21:13:38 maybe, maybe 21:13:48 There's nothing quite like realizing, several minutes into what should be a half-hour build, that you screwed up and the build should fail, yet still managing to write and save the fix before the file with the error gets compiled. 21:14:03 lol 21:14:37 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-69.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:14:38 slow builds should make you think more thoroughly, like in the old days 21:14:48 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:09 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has joined #lisp 21:15:28 stassats`: that can lead to hot-patching because you don't want to build... 21:15:37 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:42 that's what i usually do 21:16:18 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:29 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has joined #lisp 21:17:11 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@pD955C02C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:18:38 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.123.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:19:20 gko [~gko@111.81.194.172] has joined #lisp 21:21:28 Unfortunately, I'm trying to patch something that touches on cross-compiler weirdness, so hot-patching isn't quite safe. 21:21:34 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 21:24:24 Taggnostr3 [~x@dyn57-215.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 21:25:17 -!- Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-215.yok.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:37 I should be able to hot-patch the next part, though... maybe. 21:26:31 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 21:28:49 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:29:47 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-69.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:54 can someone edit the channel subject to include mention of cl.net upgrading? 21:29:59 ... or just plain make the change before the file gets compiled... once again... 21:30:05 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:30:10 ehu: Go ahead. 21:30:10 -!- tmh [6348b01a@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 21:30:26 huh? isn't it op-only anymore? 21:30:39 Correct. 21:30:40 i see no +t there 21:30:49 what kind of cl.net upgrading? 21:30:53 oh. goodie! 21:31:13 stassats`: c-l.net needs to move to a new host. 21:31:17 Logic being, it's a nuisance to have an op-only topic change, and there aren't that many ops. 21:31:21 because the old one is end of life. 21:31:35 Have provisions been made for lisppaste et al.? 21:31:40 so, what does that mean to mere mortals? 21:31:46 process: no, they are printing it. If they stop, then the rights come back to me for free. 21:31:53 it's still running etch and we need to get a different dist on it. 21:32:04 I was just idly contemplating a 2nd edition but I don't want to deal with Apress any more. 21:32:16 nyef: you mean that lisppaste moves over with the rest of the machine? yes. 21:32:22 gigamonkey: bad blood? 21:32:38 pdlogan: thanks for the Gambit pointer. I'll check it out. 21:32:41 stassats`: it means that we're going to migrate data to a new machine and set up all services from scratch. 21:32:46 antifuchs: indeed. 21:33:01 stassats`: how that's going to happen is currently being discussed on clo-devel at c-l.net 21:33:16 *nyef* should probably re-sub to clo-devel. 21:33:23 ehu: would that concern the users? 21:33:31 -!- pnq1 [~nick@AC816B15.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:34:40 Oh, awesome. That's Feely's scheme. Another thing I wanted to check out. 21:34:42 stassats`: probably, because the services get configured from scratch, when there's not enough testing, service could end up flaky in the beginning. 21:34:59 gigamonkey: sucks. I hear nostarch are awesome! (and in the bay area) 21:35:19 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:35:22 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:35:30 samizdat! 21:35:42 antifuchs: well, Gigamonkeys Inc. could do it for me. ;-) 21:35:47 gigamonkey: awww 21:35:56 gigamonkey: well, nostarch did put out land of lisp, IIRC 21:36:06 argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.173.57] has joined #lisp 21:36:18 and they're being awesome to friends of mine (: 21:36:26 Yeah, they seem like good folks. 21:36:45 They sent me (i.e. Code Quarterly) a few books to potentially review. 21:36:47 also, I believe they donated a bunch of printers to friendly hackerspaces (: 21:37:00 they do that! 21:37:08 I'm pretty excited at their publishing mode 21:37:13 and they seem very creator-friendly 21:37:18 Maybe I can get a job there when I need to earn some bucks. 21:37:21 masonium [~user@vpn.tgsmc.com] has joined #lisp 21:37:29 -!- masonium [~user@vpn.tgsmc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:45 let me know, I will ask around how far removed from my circle of friends they are (: 21:37:47 like writing "Lisp in 23 days"? 21:37:56 masonium [~user@vpn.tgsmc.com] has joined #lisp 21:37:56 "lisp: 24 days later" 21:38:00 er, wait. 28 21:38:23 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:39:08 I wonder if O'Reilly is going to take another run at a Lisp book. 21:39:11 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:39:35 clo? 21:40:15 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.221] has joined #lisp 21:40:38 nyef pasted "Well, it's almost what I wanted..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121054 21:41:06 *p_l|backup* wishes all compilers had such error messages as clang 21:41:25 patches are welcome! 21:42:05 So, my first question is, should the &ENVIRONMENT parameter for the complex setf-expansion be left in, or removed? 21:42:26 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.194.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:42:37 gko [~gko@111.81.220.163] has joined #lisp 21:43:27 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 21:44:23 next thing to also print that it's a valid declaration specifier? 21:44:25 -!- snorble_ [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: Lämnar] 21:44:56 No, next thing to have source information for the setf-expander. 21:46:00 Although I'm not quite enamored of some of these source forms... 21:47:03 nyef annotated #121054 "scary source form" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/121054#1 21:47:30 araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has joined #lisp 21:47:30 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has quit [Changing host] 21:47:30 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:47:58 On the other hand, if it's done through a file instead of at the REPL, it's fine. 21:48:22 tcr: clo, yes. what about it? 21:49:31 Actually, what's the #\o for in clo-devel? 21:49:32 what does it mean? 21:49:42 -!- ehu changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: cl-net migration discussed on clo-devel at common-lisp.net, SBCL 1.0.47, usocket 0.5.0, ABCL 0.25 21:49:50 nyef: common lisp org? 21:49:51 common-lisp.org 21:50:00 ... that's what I thought. 21:50:02 that was before it became .net. 21:50:05 Right. 21:50:28 nyef is that paste related to your defgeneric* of yesterday? 21:50:31 could have been renamed cln-devel, ofcourse 21:50:45 *stassats`* thought it's Common Lisp Olympians 21:51:15 nyef: was your question regarding lisppaste sufficiently answered? 21:51:21 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 21:51:32 hrm... I think I can throw out this old Rhapsody Developer Release 2 CD that's been in this box forever 21:52:28 ehu: I believe so. You're preserving the authorized_keys for the lisppaste account, right? 21:52:31 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.177] has joined #lisp 21:52:46 nyef: sure. 21:52:47 mon_key: Yes. With the working version of DEFGENERIC*, of course. 21:53:00 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 21:53:14 hmmm... looking at the list of work for upgrade made me think of automatic provisioning tools >_> 21:53:27 ehu: Good. So long as I can still get in and fix things up. 21:53:56 mon_key: Although today's hack is against SBCL, improving some things with SETF. 21:54:35 Landr [~user@78-21-48-20.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 21:54:37 p_l|backup: well, I think this upgrade is also a way of getting rid of a huge maintenance backlog. 21:54:54 I found multi-gb log files which hadn't been rotated forever. 21:55:23 so, maybe, the work would have been smaller with smaller maintenance intervals :-) 21:55:40 ehu: there was a note about cvsd security - anyone considered deploying some kind of MAC system to rein it in? :D 21:56:40 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:51 -!- Evious [~n_a@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:50 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:57:51 Saij [~wirc@cpe-24-93-30-86.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:53 -!- Saij [~wirc@cpe-24-93-30-86.rochester.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:58:03 p_l|backup: the mail was there to find all options which might help mitigate the risks and admin/maintenance burden (if there is any). The options you see in the threads are the options currently being considered. I guess the answer is 'no' then. 21:58:11 and some of the provisioning tools for linux (or simply a set of scripts on top of cfengine or similar) could lessen the load 21:58:18 Evious [~n_a@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:43 ehu: hmmm... I have urge to try to contribute but I have a mess of university-related stuff (and explaining to HMRC why they didn't get my tax return...) 22:00:15 p_l|backup: contributing to the discussion is as much appreciated as are contributions in the actual migration setup and testing. 22:00:19 -!- Evious [~n_a@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:10 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:01:22 I'll try to post something - I've already got some ideas for 2) 22:01:41 Evious [~n_a@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:52 bhyde [~bhyde@50.10.201.28] has joined #lisp 22:02:10 great! love to see the mails! 22:02:35 (Mandatory Access Control, automated rebuild of VPS instance from config files, etc.) 22:02:51 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has quit [Quit: superflit] 22:04:41 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:05:02 I'm turning in for the night. thanks for all the contributions (and those to come) 22:05:31 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:05:44 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 22:10:23 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01347a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:24 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@50.10.201.28] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 22:10:52 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-96-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:15:30 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-103-198.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:15:36 yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.52.229] has joined #lisp 22:16:10 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-218-55.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rread] 22:18:20 sellout [~Adium@88.128.93.201] has joined #lisp 22:20:30 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:42 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.69.191] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:21:53 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22:37 gary-s [~gary@186.42.102.50] has joined #lisp 22:24:16 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:25:29 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:26:08 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 22:26:24 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.220.163] has quit [] 22:27:20 sellout: So you did catch the last train :)? 22:28:04 Well, we caught _a_ train, but I can't guarantee it was the last ;) 22:28:21 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:50 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:28 sellout: We drove over some closed roads and a nonexistent bridge. On a newly downloaded GPS map :( 22:29:33 sellout: Yay, Route 66. 22:30:58 antoszka: That's what you get for riding with a Frenchman. 22:31:06 lol 22:33:54 Glav [~Glav@unaffiliated/glav] has joined #lisp 22:38:34 arthur` [~arthur@nat/google/x-lywcrgkcmcmtxavp] has joined #lisp 22:39:01 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.191] has joined #lisp 22:42:53 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:44:52 Hello. Is there anyone there familiar with running Hunchentoot on Clozure CL on Linux? I've followed the instructions at , but the promised and URIs aren't being served. (However, the root page, , is being served correctly.) This is my first time trying Hunchentoot, 22:44:52 so I apologize in advance if I'm missing something obvious. Thanks. 22:46:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:46:41 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:47:37 borism [~boris@ec2-46-137-24-58.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 22:47:50 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:49:20 Also, `hunchentoot:define-easy-handler' appears to succeed, but the server doesn't respond to the URL. 22:49:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-22-64-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:49:30 e.g. (hunchentoot:define-easy-handler (say-yo :uri "/yo") (name) 22:49:30 (setf (hunchentoot:content-type*) "text/plain") 22:49:30 (format nil "Hey~@[ ~A~]!" name)) 22:49:45 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.191] has joined #lisp 22:50:17 arthur`: one thing - please use paste.lisp.org for snippets 22:50:20 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :hunchentoot-test) 22:50:24 (more readable) 22:51:05 -!- Legooolas [~Legooolas@2001:838:320::1] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:51:12 Legooolas [~Legooolas@2001:838:320::1] has joined #lisp 22:52:38 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 22:54:18 /hunchentoot seems to be the default page (i.e. "/" is redirected there) 22:54:39 and I get /hunchentoot/test without issue 22:55:03 also, that guide is slightly outdated (It describes manual installation and legacy ASDF config) 22:55:17 Thanks. 22:55:31 p_l|backup: As in: use quicklisp? 22:55:39 just install quicklisp and do (ql:quickload '(hunchentoot hunchentoot-test)) then (hunchentoot:start (make-instance 'hunchentoot:acceptor :port 4242)) 22:55:44 antoszka: as always :D 22:55:50 I checked that my ASDF version is 2.010. 22:55:56 Okay, I'll try Quicklisp. 22:56:06 I didn't notice those instructions at the top until I had done the manual process. 22:56:09 Thanks very much. 22:56:26 Hunchentoot 1.1.1 (Clozure Common Lisp Version 1.6-r14468M (LinuxX8664)) at 127.0.0.1:4242 <--- booted up nicely on mine, anyway 22:57:34 -!- gary-s [~gary@186.42.102.50] has left #lisp 22:57:57 Got it running from scratch to a listening socket in 40 secs. 22:58:09 Including downloading and compiling all the deps. 22:58:17 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-141-8.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:43 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:47 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 22:59:59 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:35 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.52.229] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:02:06 Okay, I installed Quicklisp and got Hunchentoot running. 23:02:08 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.173.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:02:23 `define-easy-handler' worked beautifully. 23:02:35 does it work now? :) 23:02:53 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.177] has quit [Quit: Offline] 23:03:13 Well, "/hunchentoot/test" still doesn't work. I get "; Evaluation aborted on component :DRAKMA not found, required by #." when I run (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :hunchentoot-test). 23:03:40 Am I not supposed to use asdf:operate now that I'm using Quicklisp? 23:04:08 /hunchentoot/test  this worked for me ootb when launched from quicklisp. 23:04:21 No manual asdf-anything intervention. 23:04:44 Strange. 23:04:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:04:51 arthur`: asdf:oos is "old style" - there's asdf:load-system. ql:quickload has the advantage of automatically downloading missing dependencies, other than that it's the same 23:05:03 -!- pmurias [~pawel@89-72-232-106.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:05:08 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:41 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:05:48 in essence, ql:quickload is equivalent to calling ql-dist::ensure-installed then calling asdf to load the system (with more bits in-between) 23:06:01 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:06:49 Okay, I restarted the Lisp, then ran (load "~/lisp/quicklisp"), then ran (load "~/quicklisp/setup"), then ran (ql:quickload "hunchentoot"). 23:06:53 That seemed to succeed. 23:07:15 However, the server didn't start running, which makes sense. 23:07:23 So I ran (hunchentoot:start (make-instance 'hunchentoot:acceptor :port 4242)). 23:07:26 Now it's running. 23:07:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:08:00 But it's showing the "This is the Hunchentoot default page." page. 23:08:06 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-245-63-53.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 23:08:09 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 23:08:13 borism_ [~boris@ec2-46-137-99-139.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 23:08:24 When I visit "/hunchentoot" or "/hunchentoot/test", that is. 23:08:50 (ql:quickload "hunchentoot-test") 23:08:59 -!- borism [~boris@ec2-46-137-24-58.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:09:00 Aha! 23:09:01 arthur`: /hunchentoot/test is added by hunchentoot-test system 23:09:10 /hunchentoot is default handler 23:09:13 It all seems so obvious in hindsight. 23:09:14 Thanks. 23:09:17 np. 23:09:26 Cool. 23:09:28 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:10:13 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:13:07 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-107-242.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:07 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-107-242.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:13:29 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:13:59 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-176-184-87.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:05 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-107-242.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:28 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:19:42 -!- colazero [~colazero@www5054u.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:15 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:24:48 fred` [~user@student164-135.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 23:28:08 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:28:34 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:30:42 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:31:26 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:31:52 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:33:42 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 23:41:24 -!- bj0ern [~bpaschen@a89-183-84-223.net-htp.de] has quit [Quit: bj0ern] 23:42:07 xan_ [~xan@64.197.211.195] has joined #lisp 23:43:23 lambda-nil [~lambdanil@142.Red-80-33-85.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:54 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 23:49:42 -!- arthur` [~arthur@nat/google/x-lywcrgkcmcmtxavp] has left #lisp 23:50:41 jesusito [~user@156.pool85-49-244.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 23:55:27 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp