00:02:00 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-136.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 00:03:07 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:59 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:05 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.66.173.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:05:24 nixfreak [~nixfreak@mn-10k-dhcp1-3174.dsl.hickorytech.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:26 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:05:44 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:01 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:06:04 youguy [~youguy@89.pool85-56-107.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 00:06:39 noob to lisp -- I just need someone to explain this to me 00:06:55 (defun my-length (list) 00:07:02 (if list 00:07:21 (1+ (my-length (cdr list))) 00:07:22 nixfreak: http://paste.lisp.org/ is good for code snippets to use in IRC 00:07:25 0)) 00:07:35 nixfreak: what is it you don't understand? 00:07:41 the +1 00:07:45 1+ 00:07:54 1+ is a symbol, since it has not the syntax of a number. 00:08:06 It's like A, or FOO, or ADD1. 00:08:10 clhs 1+ 00:08:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_1pl_1_.htm 00:08:33 Since it's used in the first position in an application (inside parentheses), it is interpreted as the name of a function. 00:08:48 This is a function defined in the standard package COMMON-LISP. 00:09:03 _reid [~reid@pool-71-186-124-126.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:34 so (1+ (my-length) cdr list))) 00:09:45 I know cdr is the 2nd cell of a cons cell 00:09:51 correct 00:10:10 nixfreak: parentheses are important, meaningful and non optional in lisp. 00:10:32 I understand the parentheses 00:10:44 (1+ (my-length) cdr list) doesn't mean anything. 00:10:44 I just want to understand that program better 00:10:55 (It pass too many arguments to the function 1+, which takes only one. 00:11:15 and it pass too few arguments to the function my-length, which takes exactly one. 00:11:17 ) 00:11:37 nixfreak: if you want to understand the program better, don't massacre it. 00:11:44 I'll paste the whole example 00:11:49 The expression is: (1+ (my-length (cdr list))) 00:12:27 It obtains the rest of the LIST, applies my-length to it, and add one to the result of (my-length (cdr list)). 00:12:49 ok why add 1 though 00:13:16 Because the length of the rest of the list is one less than the length of the list. 00:13:26 So if you know the length of the rest of the list, you can determine the length of the list by adding one. 00:13:52 hmm ok thank you 00:13:52 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:02 (not (endp list)) ==> (= (- (length list) 1) (length (rest list))) 00:17:26 -!- youguy [~youguy@89.pool85-56-107.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 00:19:38 hohum [dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:06 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-132-5.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:23:45 ldunn [ldunn@2607:f128:42:54::2] has joined #lisp 00:23:56 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:31:59 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:32:05 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:29 longfin [~longfin@1.104.12.218] has joined #lisp 00:32:53 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:33:10 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 00:33:54 tronador_ [~guille@190.66.173.210] has joined #lisp 00:34:36 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:35:31 rolando [~user@1.55.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 00:36:35 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:39:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:39:12 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:39:23 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:39:41 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:10 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 00:41:20 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-126-186.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:42:34 (defpackage :foo (:use :common-lisp)) gives an error: The function :use is undefined. 00:42:36 -!- longfin [~longfin@1.104.12.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:40 Any ideas what im doing wrong here? 00:42:48 longfin [~longfin@1.100.68.152] has joined #lisp 00:42:48 <_3b> clop:defpackage ? 00:43:07 <_3b> or cl:defpackage if my irc client doesn't mess it up again 00:43:58 jsoft: What package are you in when you eval that form? 00:44:40 Balooga [~user@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 00:45:23 sellout: how do i tell that? 00:45:41 Im not running it from the repl, im eval-ing it from the file its self 00:45:47 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 00:46:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:46:18 <_3b> should list what slime things the package is in the status bar at the bottom, in [] 00:46:53 _3b: But if there's a later in-package form, SLIME will show that. 00:47:29 <_3b> ah, true, i was thinking evaluating single forms as opposed to the whoel file 00:47:34 ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has joined #lisp 00:47:39 jsoft: I'm not sure, exactly, I usually end up poking around at a few things 00:48:00 _3b: ahh well it thinks it is in thepackage I am defining 00:48:09 <_3b> you could also (cl:format cl:t "~s" cl:*package*) to be sure 00:48:12 jsoft: But, it sounds like you might be in a package that doesn't use the CL package, and so there's no DEFPACKAGE available. 00:48:27 Ahh yes 00:48:41 I think that is the case :) 00:48:43 Thanks 00:50:01 *sellout* has been bitten by that a few times. 00:50:17 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755904.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:44 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:58:43 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 01:00:08 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 01:04:23 -!- basho__ [~basho__@p4FDA6EED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:04:25 -!- sysop_fb [fb@cpe-098-121-141-115.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:08:03 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 01:10:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:11:01 -!- longfin [~longfin@1.100.68.152] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:10 *Saturnation* is all CAPI out for one day 01:11:26 longfin [~longfin@49.57.34.211] has joined #lisp 01:11:48 *p_l|home_* will try to get LW license this year :3 01:11:54 -!- p_l|home_ is now known as p_l|home 01:12:25 night 01:12:29 -!- Saturnation [~dsouth@71.169.185.125] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:12:47 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-224-241-168.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:17 -!- arborist [~arborist@g231004132.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:14:39 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.165.242] has joined #lisp 01:20:08 -!- longfin [~longfin@49.57.34.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:04 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 01:22:25 -!- Balooga [~user@147.21.8.1] has left #lisp 01:23:53 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-224-241-168.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:25:04 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:27:49 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-136.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:50 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-81-87.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 01:35:09 -!- masonium [~user@vpn.tgsmc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:18 poorman [~poorman@98.124.121.179] has joined #lisp 01:35:34 -!- poorman [~poorman@98.124.121.179] has left #lisp 01:35:45 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:54 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:37:12 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:38:06 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 01:44:56 -!- awesome-o [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has quit [Quit: awesome-o] 01:47:00 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:48:24 replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:33 -!- replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:50:59 -!- zmv___ [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:56:44 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:00:41 how do I cancel a tab-completion in slime? (get rid of the temp buffer that it pops open) 02:00:54 q or ctrl-g ? 02:01:04 tried that 02:01:36 -!- silenius [~silenus@p54946477.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:38 i can delete the buffer and close the window split, but I'm sure there's a key to do that.. just can't find it 02:02:18 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 02:02:32 ezakimak: just keep typing, it'll go away when you hit space. 02:03:03 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 02:03:11 ah. ty. I was c-g'ing and that leaves it opened/orphaned 02:03:17 or you can press tab again to get up to date completions; the window also disappears when no completion is available. 02:03:20 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:09:00 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 02:09:02 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Client Quit] 02:13:57 I'm working through the book commonLisp, in the chapter on packages 02:14:06 using sbcl, it differs from the book 02:14:38 (in-package ) 02:14:57 in the book, it says to quote , but that doesn't work--it only works if I don't quote it 02:15:00 what's the difference? 02:15:52 What's the rest of the book's name? 02:15:57 (or the author) 02:16:34 Common Lisp An Interactive Approach by Shapiro 02:16:50 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:17:16 It's just older than the final standard for CL. 02:17:30 IN-PACKAGE is a macro now, so its argument isn't evaluated. 02:17:48 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:17:57 ah. ok. cause the error is "cannot be coerced to a string" 02:18:44 right. IN-PACKAGE takes a string designator. That means that its argument is conceptually a string, but you can pass a couple other types and they'll be converted to strings silently. 02:18:59 that makes sense 02:19:03 -!- rolando [~user@1.55.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has left #lisp 02:19:35 does slime have readline support? 02:20:05 SLIME is an emacs program. 02:20:39 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:23 is there a way to c-r and search through command history? 02:22:04 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483DC57.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:37 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 02:22:47 M-p does that already. If you want to specify a regex, there's M-x slime-repl-previous-matching-input. You can use tab completion to discover these. 02:23:21 m-p only cycles through them--no searh-as-you-type 02:23:35 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C397.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:23:40 right, it searches for what you've already typed. 02:23:55 M-p doesn't search at all for me 02:24:19 then you have a very old version of slime. 02:24:48 2.0_p20080731 -- latest stable in portage 02:25:02 I see ~2.0_p20101103 also exists 02:26:01 gary-s [~gary@186.42.102.50] has joined #lisp 02:26:42 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-224-241-168.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:19 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:35:41 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:35:54 -!- tr3x [~tr3x@93-141-3-50.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:36:58 tr3x [~tr3x@93-141-3-50.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 02:39:42 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-224-241-168.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:41:24 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:44:09 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:48:05 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 02:48:07 grg [~grg@222.191.249.76] has joined #lisp 02:51:04 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:55:14 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483DC57.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:02:01 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:26 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:50 -!- gary-s [~gary@186.42.102.50] has quit [Quit: gary-s] 03:04:12 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-136.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:13 -!- dunkyp [~user@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:05:41 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:06:28 Liera [~user@113.172.40.38] has joined #lisp 03:06:49 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-136.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:07:26 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:46 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-136.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:09:46 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:13:39 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 03:13:44 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:13:56 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:14:29 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:41 ezakimak: a lot of changes have been made in slime since then 03:14:58 I just updated to the 2.0_p20101103 03:15:07 yeah, I was referring to that date (: 03:15:10 haven't noticed anything diff yet, but I haven't reall ydug into it yet 03:15:14 nowadays, it's probably better to get slime through the slime-quicklisp-helper in quicklisp 03:15:28 oh. I haven't used quicklisp yet. 03:16:02 I would advise you start doing that asap (: 03:16:06 leo2007 [~leo@120.37.101.240] has joined #lisp 03:16:14 it's really very good and useful 03:16:14 what am I missing w/o it? 03:16:32 it's the best way to get working lisp libraries that are up to date 03:16:32 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 03:16:57 basically, as easy as rubygems (except it's even easier than that IMHO) (: 03:16:59 -!- ldunn [ldunn@2607:f128:42:54::2] has left #lisp 03:17:29 also, slime-quicklisp-helper, which is a very recent verified-working slime 03:17:51 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 03:18:25 well, I wanna make it through at least one book before worrying about my toolset--I still haven't really become productive at all yet 03:18:29 also, it self-updates and you can bug the maintainer here (: 03:18:35 ah 03:18:52 that sounds like a plan (: 03:18:54 maybe I'll ping the gentoo lisp maintainers and see if they're moving towards using quicklisp 03:19:17 In the web page of elephant, it says "ClozureCL will be supported in the upcoming release.", any idea whether that's still true? 03:19:20 to be fair, I think fe[nl]ix makes the gentoo builds 03:19:38 there's two devs listed on the webpage 03:19:40 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 03:19:45 here: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/lisp/common-lisp/index.xml 03:19:47 no idea, leo2007. but you could quickload elephant in ccl and try to find out (: 03:20:23 i may need an overlay 03:20:58 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 03:21:04 antifuchs: seems working, http://common-lisp.net/project/elephant/platforms.html 03:21:15 on 64 osx. 03:21:23 leo2007: sweet then (: 03:26:06 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 03:27:16 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27:26 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:42 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-124.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:31:09 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-85.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:35:04 myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 03:42:19 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:43:16 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:37 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:21 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:45:56 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:47:27 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@208.69.183.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:54 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.119.57] has joined #lisp 03:51:02 evening 03:51:19 Hello slyrus. 03:53:24 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 03:54:25 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:55:22 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:32 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:18 I cannot load manardb. getting this Reader error: No external symbol named "MREMAP" in package # . 03:58:38 I am running ccl 1.6 on osx 10.6.6. 04:02:13 -!- jesusabdullah [~jesusabdu@li225-26.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:07:43 longfin [~longfin@121.126.208.129] has joined #lisp 04:10:36 shachaf [~shachaf@208.69.183.87] has joined #lisp 04:18:45 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:18:55 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:59 -!- ezakimak [~nick@69-9-62-212.static.orml010.digis.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:20:21 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 04:20:36 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 04:23:09 -!- tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:25:47 ReeceYates [~Stuthagen@dsl-72-10-221-122.bbr0.cxscny.statetel.com] has joined #lisp 04:26:58 awesome-o [~anonymous@76.14.66.154] has joined #lisp 04:28:31 longfin_ [~longfin@121.126.208.129] has joined #lisp 04:29:10 -!- longfin [~longfin@121.126.208.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:30:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:31:49 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:00 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:45 gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.215.182] has joined #lisp 04:35:24 -!- awesome-o [~anonymous@76.14.66.154] has quit [Quit: awesome-o] 04:36:20 -!- tr3x [~tr3x@93-141-3-50.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:38:10 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Night.] 04:40:28 tr3x [~tr3x@93-139-97-119.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:42:38 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:42:55 stalinho [~yaaic@187.89.233.33] has joined #lisp 04:43:42 nyef: wow compiler macros are speedy! 04:44:07 ... really? I'd be surprised if I've used them twice. 04:45:50 I possibly don't tend to write things that can be sped up that way very often. 04:45:51 well I know you can't tell simply from looking at sbcl disassembly what improvements occured but I susepct that profiling tommorow will comfirm it. 04:46:14 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-101-5.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:47:17 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:48:00 with all the bit twiddling going on it prob. helped alot. I will def. let you know more if so. 04:48:18 thanx again for that code! 04:48:37 No problem. 04:53:41 -!- stalinho [~yaaic@187.89.233.33] has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 04:56:14 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 04:56:24 peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 04:56:55 ezakimak [~nick@69-9-62-212.static.orml010.digis.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:28 symbole [~user@ool-182ff693.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:39 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:07:13 someprimetime [~someprime@c-76-127-80-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:26 hi paul graham here 05:09:25 If a troll falls in the forest any nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound? 05:10:00 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-136.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:06 Mu: The /troll/ is around to hear it. 05:10:30 s/a troll/a deaf troll/ 05:11:38 ... That way lies Helen Keller jokes. 05:14:14 ouch 05:20:07 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: later] 05:22:23 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA4C9E6.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23:35 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:25:39 Am having dramas with defpackage and then in-package. (defpackage :foo (:use :sdl :cl)) and then it says that there is a symbol confict with :foo::defclass and common-lisp::defclass 05:25:54 But then if I dont :use :cl it doesnt know about ::defclass 05:26:11 that's why you get a conflict 05:26:45 when you don't use :cl it gets interned, and then when you use :cl it conflicts 05:27:00 so yeah. 05:27:07 Whats the elegant way to sort this out then? 05:27:19 shadowing-import or similar? 05:27:22 (cl:defclass ...) or something? 05:27:28 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has joined #lisp 05:27:32 And that too, yes. 05:27:39 :| 05:27:56 delete-package that package and defpackage it with :use :cl 05:28:55 Oh, right. If the package already exists and is screwed up, use UNINTERN on 'FOO::DEFCLASS to clean it up, then the DEFPACKAGE should go through. 05:29:08 Ahh I see. 05:29:10 Presuming that you want to use CL:DEFCLASS and never FOO::DEFCLASS. 05:29:22 i would guess that 'foo::defclass isn't the only offending symbol 05:29:33 so, doing delete-package would be easier 05:29:40 I would like to just go straight (defclass ...) in the package. 05:30:04 (or restarting lisp) 05:30:11 jsoft: yes, you would get it 05:30:13 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@121.126.208.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:31:16 Ahh worked. 05:31:43 Something to remember for next time :) 05:31:46 Thanks 05:32:02 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@e180102197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:32:10 Areil [~Areil@113.172.40.38] has joined #lisp 05:35:41 -!- grg [~grg@222.191.249.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35:59 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 05:37:30 Hunden [~Hunden@e180099134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:40:33 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 05:42:19 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:42:28 is this a typical redefinition warning for a defmacro form? http://sprunge.us/jBXd?cl 05:42:40 for some reason these are seeming unusually verbose to me :P 05:43:14 Yeah, that's about right. 05:43:43 k, synapse misfire :D 05:43:44 At the same time, if you use SLIME, you shouldn't see most of that. 05:44:05 hmm, i do, but, i do :\ 05:44:21 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:45:03 ... maybe I'm wrong about the slime thing, then. 05:46:25 Eesh. It's almost 1 AM. I'm going to bed. 05:46:26 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:46:28 G'night all. 05:46:37 night nyef 05:47:09 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has joined #lisp 05:47:29 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:48:33 longfin [~longfin@121.126.208.129] has joined #lisp 05:51:33 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:53:49 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 05:54:45 -!- ezakimak [~nick@69-9-62-212.static.orml010.digis.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:57:15 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 05:58:01 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:26 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:08 lars9 [~lars@dy088-242.ust.hk] has joined #lisp 06:04:43 which scheme has best support for macro? 06:05:04 lars9: Common Lisp 06:07:19 stassats: common lisp looks too complicated to me. l've learnt scheme in colledge. 06:07:53 Common Lisp isn't more complicated than the real world problems 06:08:31 but, if you really insist on scheme, then there's #scheme channel 06:15:16 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 06:20:00 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@120.37.101.240] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.3] 06:24:57 Davsebamse [~davse@0x573457e0.hinxx3.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 06:28:09 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:28:59 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:31:01 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:36:10 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:38:55 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@204.14.152.118] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 06:41:14 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:46:26 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46:27 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:47:15 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has joined #lisp 06:47:40 devsundar [~Meenakshi@46-126-208-116.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:48:05 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 06:49:19 Any good resources (Books, tutorial, videos etc) for learning lisp? 06:49:42 minion: tell devsundar about PCL 06:49:43 devsundar: have a look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 06:49:59 o.o 06:50:09 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:50:54 Thank you. 06:52:28 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.119.57] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726]] 06:53:25 slash_ [~unknown@pD955E4C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:26 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955E4C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 06:54:00 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 06:57:12 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:58:10 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.66.173.210] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 07:00:02 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:01:11 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-250-21-139.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:02:08 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:03:33 mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-69-181-1-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:54 Deathaholic [~Mococa@187.114.165.242] has joined #lisp 07:04:16 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-69-181-1-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:05:11 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:05:47 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:06:40 -!- ReeceYates [~Stuthagen@dsl-72-10-221-122.bbr0.cxscny.statetel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:54 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 07:07:05 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.165.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:14:20 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-9-42.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:40 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 07:19:13 Areil` [~Areil@113.172.53.111] has joined #lisp 07:19:41 Liera` [~user@113.172.53.111] has joined #lisp 07:21:06 -!- Areil [~Areil@113.172.40.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:21:14 -!- Liera [~user@113.172.40.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:21:14 ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 07:21:46 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 07:21:52 -!- Liera` is now known as Liera 07:23:24 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 07:29:05 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:29:13 -!- symbole [~user@ool-182ff693.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:30:09 -!- Areil` is now known as Areil 07:30:38 orivej [~orivej@wi87.fi.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 07:32:56 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34:03 jsoft [~jsoft@118.82.132.6] has joined #lisp 07:34:04 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@118.82.132.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:34:04 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 07:35:04 -!- Deathaholic [~Mococa@187.114.165.242] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 07:36:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:37:49 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-245-62-252.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:24 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 07:40:55 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 07:40:59 hi 07:43:59 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:45:49 Posterdati, in your country, what time is it? 07:46:02 9:00 07:46:02 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:46:09 lol 07:46:51 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has joined #lisp 07:47:26 Posterdati, what time is it in your country? 07:47:43 9:00 07:47:50 in your? 07:48:17 3:00 PM 07:48:47 maybe you've just stated to work 07:49:48 japan there? 07:50:19 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:57 no, it's Vietnam 07:51:01 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:51:31 Posterdati, you're from Italy? 07:51:51 yes 07:53:51 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:53:56 -!- devsundar [~Meenakshi@46-126-208-116.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 07:59:38 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:27 nlg [~nlg@c-47c4e455.02-416-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:05:34 -!- nlg [~nlg@c-47c4e455.02-416-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 08:09:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:10:14 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:11:41 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-132-5.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:15:06 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:15:24 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:18:00 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 08:19:54 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Client Quit] 08:21:07 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-80-173.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:23:01 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-116-17.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:23:40 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 08:24:02 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 08:25:35 -!- rme [~rme@pool-68-238-4-125.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 08:26:42 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:28:11 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:38 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:37 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:43:53 Hoornet [~Hoornet@93.103.24.156] has joined #lisp 08:43:56 -!- orivej [~orivej@wi87.fi.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:44:41 -!- longfin [~longfin@121.126.208.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:45:11 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:54:14 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:14 lompa [~lompa@76.Red-83-53-31.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:17 hi 08:57:26 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:57:27 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:13 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has joined #lisp 09:01:18 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 09:01:18 hi lompa. What's new and exciting? 09:06:36 koning_robot [~user@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #lisp 09:08:15 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-85.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:09:49 trebor_home [~email@dslb-088-069-146-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:01 -!- lompa [~lompa@76.Red-83-53-31.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:12:05 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-85.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:12:52 -!- jwdunne [~jwdunne@cpc1-ward9-2-0-cust148.10-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:14:53 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-245-62-252.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 09:20:29 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002599.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:09 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 09:23:06 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:23:41 galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:46 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 09:27:24 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 09:29:31 -!- Spion__ [~spion@77.29.254.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:29:44 jwdunne [~jwdunne@cpc1-ward9-2-0-cust148.10-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:32:47 https://github.com/slyrus/opticl#readme <-- this is probably the first time I see Xach mentioned as "Zachary Beane". It looks odd and out of place 09:33:50 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 09:34:17 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.215.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:40:13 longfin [~longfin@175.253.96.100] has joined #lisp 09:45:06 -!- longfin [~longfin@175.253.96.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47:02 gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.212.50] has joined #lisp 09:47:49 longfin [~longfin@175.253.96.100] has joined #lisp 09:48:33 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:49:32 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:51:27 -!- longfin [~longfin@175.253.96.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:51:58 benny` [~benny@i577A1733.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:53:37 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3CCF.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:55:17 -!- benny` is now known as benny 10:00:56 -!- someprimetime [~someprime@c-76-127-80-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: someprimetime] 10:02:17 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has joined #lisp 10:05:47 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:11:14 orivej [~orivej@m77-217-153-174.cust.tele2.ru] has joined #lisp 10:14:46 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-132-5.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:15:53 -!- orivej [~orivej@m77-217-153-174.cust.tele2.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:15:54 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-33-69.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 10:16:57 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-178-131.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:17:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:20:23 I installed auto-complete in emacs but as soon as I save the file with .lisp extension, it stops working ? How to get the same behaviour like in repl, autocompletion and function definition in minibuffer ? 10:21:56 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:24:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:27:05 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:27:05 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 10:27:05 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 10:27:43 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:27:47 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:34:17 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-33-69.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 10:36:05 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:36:24 extra11 [~extra11@c-24-125-178-151.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:25 -!- extra11 [~extra11@c-24-125-178-151.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:10 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 10:44:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:46:23 dmiles [~dmiles@75-175-90-206.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:44 ckelly [~ckelly@microgravity.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 10:47:04 hi 10:47:37 how does one get a particular value from a function that returns multiple values 10:47:46 longfin [~longfin@121.126.208.129] has joined #lisp 10:47:48 specifically, get-decoded-time 10:48:00 I'm trying to get the minute but nth doesn't work 10:49:11 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:49:30 from my searches I get multiple-values-bind but I just get style warnings when I try to use it 10:54:06 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-205-233.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:54:16 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11:14:49 The_Fellow1 [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 11:14:49 ckelly: nth-value if you are just interested in one return value 11:15:17 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:16:08 -!- The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:16:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.165] has joined #lisp 11:17:16 -!- fisted_ is now known as fisted 11:18:09 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 11:19:46 EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:29 snorble_ [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:22:21 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 11:22:25 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 11:23:11 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:28:40 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:35:23 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:36:58 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:09 alama [~alama@a79-169-81-87.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 11:41:47 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-92-171.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:42:02 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:47:13 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:12 masonium [~user@ip72-211-205-4.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:37 slash_1 [~unknown@pD955DD49.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:51 hmm, seems that there's no xslt 2.0 implementation in common lisp 11:54:36 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.165] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 11:55:45 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-205-233.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:56:21 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:49 centrex 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joined #lisp 13:12:58 hi 13:16:36 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 13:21:41 alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has joined #lisp 13:23:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:33:18 francogrex [~user@109.130.115.3] has joined #lisp 13:35:53 ernestas [~ernestas@ec2-46-51-178-108.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:16 pmurias [~pawel@static-78-8-208-43.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #lisp 13:36:31 -!- ernestas [~ernestas@ec2-46-51-178-108.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has left #lisp 13:36:31 how does returning multiple values from functions work? 13:36:53 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:38:02 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-51-145-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:02 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-51-145-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:38:02 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 13:38:49 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 13:39:50 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 13:40:03 http://www.sbcl.org/sbcl-internals/Unknown_002dValues-Returns.html has some info for the general case 13:40:06 pmurias: use the VALUES function to do that 13:40:48 I think he wants to know how it works internally, i suspect he already knows about values 13:43:00 sacho [~sacho@95-42-85-88.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 13:44:25 -!- koning_robot [~user@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:28 ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 13:46:02 -!- longfin [~longfin@121.126.208.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:19 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:49:14 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.115.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:38 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 13:51:02 alama: thanks 13:51:15 how do they work internally? 13:51:37 *pmurias* saw the link 13:51:49 pmurias: i don't know 13:52:17 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:53:11 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-17-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:54:38 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-17-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:54:56 koning_robot [~user@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #lisp 13:59:02 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 14:01:14 micke` [~user@91.190.137.240] has joined #lisp 14:01:43 urandom__ [~user@p548A5CB0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:01 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 14:02:12 pmurias: On x86 and x86-64 SBCL, multiple-values are returned by setting the first three in specific registers, passing the rest on the stack with a pointer to the values in a register, the total number of values returned in yet another register, and a flag set to indicate that multiple values are being returned. 14:02:18 ehu: what's the state of the mop on abcl? 14:03:15 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.212.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:03:20 -!- micke` [~user@91.190.137.240] has quit [Client Quit] 14:03:57 pmurias: For a call site that's only expecting the one value, the flag is tested to see if the stack pointer needs to be reset. For a call site expecting multiple values, the flag is tested to see if it needs to "fake up" the remaining register arguments and such. 14:05:18 morning 14:05:29 pmurias: I actually wrote the entirety of the calling convention chapter of the internals manual, so if you have specific questions... 14:05:33 Hello slyrus. 14:06:55 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:09:19 Xach: it's at best incomplete 14:09:28 some bits are present, but there's a lot of work to be done 14:13:52 nyef: What's the reason for only 3 being passed through registers? 14:14:08 Lack of registers. 14:14:33 What do the other registers have? 14:15:58 A quick overview: x86 has 8 GPRs. One of them is the stack pointer, and one is the stack frame pointer. That leaves six. We have to hold the number of values returned, which leaves five. We pass three return values in registers, which leaves two. 14:16:18 x86-64 has 16 14:16:25 slyrus: morning 14:16:49 We have a pointer to the values stored on the stack, which leaves one... and it turns out that we need a scratch register to actually process the values. 14:17:06 Sure, but x86-64 was done based on the x86 backend. 14:17:58 I see 14:19:46 V-ille: so its absence from closer-mop is not necessarily closer-mop's responsibility 14:20:54 Xach: closer-mop has been on our todo-list for a very long time, but we haven't had time to play with it 14:21:13 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 14:23:35 V-ille: i got an email to the quicklisp list: "i want to run weblocks on abcl but closer-mop doesn't work" 14:23:43 i suspect closer-mop isn't the only roadblock 14:25:25 ugh, i need to throw in a conceptually independent, but needed common lisp repo into my current repo, but i fear that git submodule is just too janky and hard to use 14:25:36 anyone using git submodules for their lisp projects? 14:26:20 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 14:26:20 I'm not... I'm happy enough maintaining separate repos for each library at this point. 14:26:21 Xach: right. we're working to make trivial-garbage work as we speak. another of the top 30 downloads from QL 14:26:53 QL, the big equalizer of CL 14:27:12 Xach: I'm not sure how long it will take before closer will run on ABCL, but I suspect it may take a while. it's a major effort. 14:28:16 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:30:06 Xach: maybe it's better to refer people to the implementations; it shows us which interests people have. 14:30:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:11 I was idly thinking about a ql-for-implementors list, where interested folks from each implementation could join and listen to me whine & complain, but then I realized that might only be appealing to me. :) 14:30:17 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:31:22 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:32:54 Xach: not really. I'd be interested. 14:34:14 Might be interesting to have a chart, packages ordered by download popularity by lisp implementation, indicating if it works, doesn't work on its own merit, or doesn't work because a dependency doesn't work. 14:34:16 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:34:29 I'd call it "portability" list :D 14:34:32 nyef: yes, extremely 14:34:42 and easy, if time-consuming, to generate 14:35:08 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002599.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:25 Xach: heh; for my work, i was thinking of something similar (in my case, a mailing list for interactive theorem provers, where i'd basically just complain about how working with all their systems sucks and needs to be improved) 14:37:06 *slyrus* votes for fixing abcl and/or cl-jpeg such that they play nice with each other 14:38:05 the headline "Explosion at Nuclear Plant" isn't exactly what one hopes to wake up to 14:39:38 slyrus: ? 14:39:47 japan. not good. 14:39:51 ah, those 14:39:55 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:40:03 the troubled plants shut down nicely, afaik 14:40:20 Japan has scarily secured powerplants 14:40:42 nyef: is the overhead of multiple values significant (in the one value case)? 14:41:03 otoh, it's again a great chance to get money for nuclear projects in another signatory country of Kyoto protocol :D 14:41:04 *prxq* has a plane ticket to sendai 14:41:22 *p_l|home* really wishes he had gone to japan 14:41:31 pmurias: Not particularly. When returning a single value, you have to clear a flag. When you're expecting a single value returned you CMOV on the flag to discard the extras. Not much overhead at all. 14:41:53 p_l|home: I wish they would get some here 14:41:54 pmurias: If you don't have CMOV, it's a little more, a conditional branch (not taken) and a MOV. 14:42:12 If you are on a non-x86oid architecture, then things get crazier. 14:42:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-219-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:44:33 silenius [~silenus@p54946477.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:57 pmurias: Actually, for a while the single-value return case got penalized rather badly on x86oids, which was unfortunate since it's the most common case. 14:46:16 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 14:49:57 drdo: ? 14:50:06 drdo: nuclear powerplants? 14:51:40 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 14:54:08 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 14:54:17 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:54:29 hi 14:54:53 -!- galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:55:09 please help could (let ((object1 object2)) ...) copy a class-defined object in the same type object1? 14:55:26 please help could (let ((object1 object2)) ...) copy a class-defined object2 in the same type object1? 14:55:34 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:55:43 it doesn't copy anything 14:55:47 Posterdati: LET creates bindings, it doesn't copy things. 14:56:40 and what copy do you want? deep, shallow, profound? 14:57:03 every slots should be copied in object1 14:57:19 then I returned a modified object1 14:57:36 tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.66.112] has joined #lisp 14:58:00 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:58:37 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 14:59:01 Hoyte's "Let Over Lambda" is full of hyperbole and superlatives. Is it really worth buying? 14:59:22 (I was referring to the cover and promotional materials. Haven't seen the inside.) 15:00:28 ... conic sections? 15:02:18 stassats pasted "shallow-copy-object" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120453 15:02:23 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-85-88.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:18 something like that, i guess 15:03:39 sacho [~sacho@46.10.16.35] has joined #lisp 15:05:51 Posterdati: "copying" an object means different things to different people on different days. It is not all too clear what is meant. There is a "copy-instance" somewhere out there that does copy the values of the slots. 15:06:12 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:06:21 like, above? 15:06:31 Posterdati: however, if one of the slots holds a list, for example, then that slot in the new object points to the same list [i.e. it's not copied] 15:06:39 stassats: probably :-) 15:06:53 davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:55 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 15:07:11 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:41 Posterdati: read: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/EQUAL.html 15:10:42 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 15:11:03 tauntaun: I've read reviews in both directions. It seems at least to evoke an emotional response in the reader. 15:12:27 ok thanks 15:12:51 ... Let over Lambda is a book with the sort of "cover" that I wouldn't buy it new without having read some of it first, might buy it used sight-unseen at a steep enough discount, and probably won't buy at all, ever. 15:13:35 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:13:36 Posterdati: read also this thread http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/cdr-discuss/2011-March/000301.html 15:14:06 gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:32 hmm, it seems that since upgrading emacs to 23.3, when i do C-c C-k in a common lisp buffer, slime comiles the file *twice* 15:15:17 how do you tell? 15:16:14 tuantuan: I didn't regret buying and reading it. It does seem the style offends some people. Frankly I enjoy it when the author wears their prejudices entertainingly upon their sleeve rather than making me guess them. 15:16:31 because in the minibuffer, i see the message i'd expect to see, then the text is cleared, then i see the same text again 15:17:08 alama: can you do more scientific experemintes, like inserting prints into eval-when? 15:18:16 i don't use 23.3, but rather 24.0, i don't expect them to differ in any way 15:19:14 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:19:19 alama pasted "slime compiling a file multiple times with one C-c C-k?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120454 15:19:31 i wonder why the actual printing of books on paper isn't dying off faster 15:19:32 stassats: there's what i see in *Messages* 15:19:39 after one C-c C-k invocation 15:20:38 alama: it's normal 15:20:45 i'm not sure if it's *actually* doing multiple compilations 15:20:56 it *is* different from what what i used to see 15:21:01 JuanDaugherty: silly limitations in ebook readers. For example, they have a battery that runs out eventually. 15:21:18 that doesn't affect PDFs 15:21:37 prxq: paper books depend on the Sun, it will run out eventually too 15:22:19 stassats: let's agree that it is a matter of timescale 15:22:48 kauwgom [~reid@pool-173-53-249-101.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:40 prxq: yes, and ebooks run for quite long 15:23:52 i guess it would have happened if they could protect the IP better 15:24:09 i guess that's because they don't use lisp, which is slow and power-hungry 15:24:57 JuanDaugherty: IP protection is one of the missfeatures of them. It's a hassle to lend a book, etc 15:24:57 that's the sole reason really, I think because otherwise the greater profit from e-production vs. paper printing would have driven it 15:25:15 -!- _reid [~reid@pool-71-186-124-126.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:25:39 JuanDaugherty: books are nice. Have a nice cover. You can scribble proofs of deep theorems on the margin. 15:25:47 ebook readers just suck 15:26:18 that does sound subjective and off-topicive 15:27:10 we'll I would have expected "let over lambda" to have an electronic version 15:27:44 sysop_fb [fb@cpe-098-121-141-115.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:53 if that transition were moving at the rate it should be in subcultures like this 15:27:55 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:28:34 a lot of lisp titles are in e form though and free for that matter 15:28:42 prxq: Proofs of deep theorems, or just claims of proofs of deep theorems which the margin is too small to contain? 15:29:17 you don't get lol as ebook most likely because all ebook readers are mostly a closed affair. 15:29:29 nyef: it varies ;-) 15:29:50 like an app store 15:29:59 ebook readers are a scam man, I'm talking PDF or whatever 15:30:08 ah ok. 15:31:04 prxq: didn't twitter replace margins nowadays? 15:31:50 JuanDaugherty: LoL is going to be available online 15:32:06 though I don't know if the login portion for later chapters is working or not 15:32:11 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 15:32:12 JuanDaugherty: so you're working on a lisp-based PDF workflow for epublishing? 15:32:35 splittist, lol, no 15:32:39 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:32:53 GeneralMaximus [~general@122.163.238.87] has joined #lisp 15:33:54 the priced PDFs I've bought that have any protection are locked so that you have to enter an identity to use 15:34:27 so if you give somebody a copy they consciously violate the IP by using that identity 15:37:12 do have a vague plan to make a CL based backend for a general OS workflow/job control layer 15:38:05 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 15:39:05 based on the burroughs WFL 15:39:09 JuanDaugherty: do you have that plan? 15:39:54 JuanDaugherty: a visual programming language? 15:40:21 prxq, don't understand the question. I'm pretty clear about my concept at first level, said vague out of false modesty and in recognition of stuff I haven't worked out 15:40:36 no not visual 15:40:58 that's a scam too, man 15:41:07 JuanDaugherty: what, a vpl? 15:41:12 y 15:42:08 I only used one once (OpenDX) and I agree it wasn't very encouraging. Looks neat, though :-) 15:42:51 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:43:08 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-201.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:43:13 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:26 actually they seem to have peaked in the 90s with powerbuilder, paradox, etc. 15:43:29 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:42 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:44:55 more than a scam, I think it's a mirage. Looks fantastic, but when you try it, you hit the Deutschman limit (50 icons max). And realize that text is just better. Or markup for parse trees. 15:44:59 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-85.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:45:21 JuanDaugherty: I thought WFL was a vpl 15:45:32 I just like saying "It's a scam, man" 15:45:57 the thing unisys is selling now might be but I doubt it 15:46:20 tronador_ [~guille@190.66.173.210] has joined #lisp 15:47:31 http://www.scripps.edu/~sanner/images/work/ViperIntro.jpg 15:47:32 i mean there might be a GUI over the regular MCP WFL, I know WFL is still WFL, i.e. algol like because I got a reference manual a few years back for the MCP 10.something version 15:48:11 VPLs might be more interesting as an introductory (pedagogical) programming language, as opposed to something for serious use. 15:48:15 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-201.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:49:03 nyef: they are used regularly in sound studios, where they sort of make sense. Other than that, I agree. 15:49:54 devsundar1 [~Meenakshi@46-126-210-228.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:50:02 -!- devsundar1 [~Meenakshi@46-126-210-228.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 15:52:17 I've seen a somewhat visual language used for "workflow" in a CRM system, but it really wasn't pretty... 15:54:14 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 15:54:14 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:55:33 JuanDaugherty: why are ebook readers a scam? 15:55:43 (In retrospect, as the entire system was consultantware, the use of flowcharty things for workflow was clearly directed at least partly at the manager types.) 15:55:47 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-205-233.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:36 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 15:56:39 nyef: sounds plausible 15:56:40 pmurias, because they're just selling a device when none is needed to read an "e book" 15:57:15 the kindle got me with its internet connection 15:57:39 as for VPLs, they make sence in certain conditions 15:57:47 -!- borkaman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 15:57:48 *sense 15:58:27 Mmm. Dataflow languages with few (possibly fairly complex) processing steps, for starters. 15:58:28 (other than a general purpose computer, whether tablet or whatever) 15:58:32 JuanDaugherty: do you have one? 15:58:56 I don't have a tablet, or ebook reader no. 15:58:57 reading a book from an ebook reader is much more plesan 15:58:59 t 15:59:25 * pleasant 15:59:59 and it's more autonomous 16:00:04 i may get an ipad but only to support my mobile practice 16:00:35 by the same reasoning one could call a calculator or a clock a scam 16:00:45 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:57 don't see the analogy 16:01:36 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-101-5.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 16:01:41 a calculator does calculations but you don't need it to do them 16:01:42 pmurias: sure, all you need is a gnomon and an abacus 16:01:44 there isn't exactly eguivalent functionality to the calculator or clock in say an abacus or sundial 16:02:14 in the way there is with a PDF reader vs a dedicated device 16:02:17 \ 16:02:45 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:03:26 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@0x573457e0.hinxx3.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:04:06 nyef: or when the VPL and "normal" language are intertwined closely so that there isn't much mousing, but you have lotsof visual hints to code. Of course, only for *very high* level code 16:04:13 Davsebamse [~davse@0x573457e0.hinxx3.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:04:27 (and can be an introduction to normal text-representation) 16:04:46 p_l|home: Quite so, hence my argument about pedagogical uses. 16:05:27 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-176-211-39.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:38 as a visual DSL in a specific area it makes sense, but I don't know of any cogent general frameworks for that 16:05:42 I see a use if the metaphor fits. Like for audio signal processing. 16:06:16 -!- sysop_fb [fb@cpe-098-121-141-115.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:07:04 shaunren [~shaun@bas2-cooksville17-1279412276.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:07:05 heber [~heber@186-24-17-1.genericrev.telcel.net.ve] has joined #lisp 16:07:21 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:47 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-205-233.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:11:08 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:11:53 gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.234] has joined #lisp 16:12:26 -!- heber [~heber@186-24-17-1.genericrev.telcel.net.ve] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13:35 I was considering using it for Lisp, but not completely visual, more like showing a sort of structure over the source and keeping rigorous formatting etc. 16:14:06 (for a variant of CL implemented through conduits and some macros and reader macros) 16:14:18 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:49 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:15:11 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 16:15:17 I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing that I had a dream about ASDF last night. 16:15:29 daniel [~daniel@p5082B832.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:42 was it a nightmare? 16:15:50 For some reason, I thought if it had a way to trace and save its compilation activity, the resulting program would be over 500KB 16:15:56 For even small projects. 16:16:06 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002599.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:50 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326F27.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:17:36 heh 16:17:55 I recommend that you don't look into implementation details of C++, then 16:18:23 I shall endeavor not to. 16:19:03 it wasn't as bad as it could be, but still.. >_> 16:19:20 (the exception handling was definitely overdone, IMHO) 16:21:09 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:57 there is even an official ABI to pass/handle exceptions from/to other languages 16:22:41 I thought about possibly using that in future to pass through a condition from CL callback to C++ and then back to CL 16:22:44 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:23:20 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:51 p_l|home: Problem with that is that the C++ equivalent to UWP is to catch and re-throw. 16:24:07 Completely screws things up for CL semantics. 16:24:13 *nyef* looked into it quite a while back. 16:25:08 nyef: yeah, but at least none of C++ handlers will fire if they see "CL\0\0" instead of "C++\0" in exception :) 16:25:57 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:27:04 (though the example having Java in it was horrible >_>) 16:27:38 -!- alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has quit [Quit: alama] 16:28:54 rme [~rme@pool-68-238-4-125.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:31 as for my VPL thingy... I wanted an S-expr editor in Flash so that "newbies" wouldn't get scared if "big scary parens" 16:29:51 xan_ [~xan@73.Red-88-19-188.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:46 *nyef* just had this mental image of an editor which rendered parens (and only parens) in a font three times the size of the one that it uses for everything else. 16:33:48 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36:01 Xach: FWIW Last night I dreamt I was writing edible CL... at one point remember thinking "Man, this function is gonna be tasty" 16:36:50 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:37:45 *[df]* is disappointed to discover you can't remove a character from the end of a string with (decf (length str)) 16:38:08 [df]: heh 16:38:23 You can (decf (fill-pointer str)) 16:40:27 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:40:44 <[df]> drdo: wouldn't it have to be a vector? 16:41:01 [df]: strings are vectors, iirc 16:42:38 <[df]> fill-pointer on a string gives me an error 16:42:53 that's because your string has no fill-pointer 16:42:58 what he said 16:43:39 <[df]> ah, so I'd need to create it with make-array and specify one? 16:43:49 yes 16:43:49 yes 16:44:06 -!- silenius [~silenus@p54946477.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:35 but it's better just to use SUBSEQ 16:44:40 <[df]> yeah, I will do 16:44:43 <[df]> but it's nice to know 16:44:51 What do you want to do anyway [df] ? 16:45:06 <[df]> remove the last char of a string 16:45:21 well no shit :P 16:45:42 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:45:58 But how you would actually do it depends a lot on what you are doing with the string in the bigger picture 16:46:33 <[df]> I thought there might be something nicer than (subseq str 0 (1- (length str))) 16:46:34 edible cl? 16:46:34 it's easier just to use SUBSEQ and think optimization postmaturely 16:46:37 Rukowen [~Rukowen@222.253.95.31] has joined #lisp 16:46:38 <[df]> but if not, no big deal 16:46:54 s/think/think about/ 16:47:09 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 16:47:13 <[df]> I was more concerned with elegance than optimisation 16:47:25 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:55 (coerce (butlast (coerce string 'list)) 'string) 16:48:18 that's both horribly slow and horribly ugly 16:49:08 how about (replace (make-string (1- (length string))) string)? 16:49:36 <[df]> I'll stick with subseq :D 16:49:43 how elegant it is really depends on what his doing with the string 16:49:47 *he's 16:51:24 <[df]> the code is handling a backspace keypress 16:51:39 ermm... 16:51:51 and where is that backspace happening? 16:52:31 also, are you handling Backspace or Delete/Rubout, cause there is a difference 16:53:15 -!- kerx__ [~kerx@209.208.63.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:53:21 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:50 You can also use nsubseq, which will provide a displaced array on the string, you could add a fill-pointer, so that you can further decrement it later. 16:54:29 Ah, if it's for a buffer, just make it with a fill-pointer from the start. 16:54:40 I would do so too 16:54:42 This will allow you to use vector-push efficiently too. 16:55:04 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.206] has joined #lisp 16:55:24 -!- GeneralMaximus [~general@122.163.238.87] has quit [Quit: And we said: look at that fucker dance.] 16:56:34 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 16:56:53 zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 16:57:45 <[df]> that would probably class as premature optimisation, it's a fairly ephemeral buffer 16:57:46 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:27 that's why I asked what kind of application it is 16:59:40 <[df]> it's stumpwm 16:59:42 or rather, what is the exact part 16:59:44 ahh 17:00:02 [df]: It will probably be more elegant than using subseq if it's a string that the user is editing 17:00:08 I'd probably go with nsubseq if you don't care about destructive operations 17:00:35 or subseq if you care 17:00:47 now, if it was an editor, it would be different 17:00:53 <[df]> what is nsubseq? 17:01:12 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.16.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:14 ahhh 17:01:16 google for it, there's several implementations around. 17:01:24 it wasn't part of standard ^^; 17:01:38 Yes, but it's famous :-) 17:02:17 it was such an obvious thing to me that I didn't bother checking and I didn't have a need so far... ^^; 17:02:54 jokoon [~zonax@feu30-1-82-242-58-229.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:55 "Return a subsequence by pointing to location in original sequence" 17:05:11 (?) 17:05:57 Hello 17:06:22 Hello 17:06:53 alama [~alama@182.113.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:07:08 ah ok, it builds displaced arrays. 17:07:31 I'd like to learn lisp, toy a little with it... I hear there are a lot of dialects of lisp, the most common being common lisp... is there some popular compiler/platform for windows ? 17:07:46 Something broadly used by lisp programmers ? 17:08:06 most people probably use SBCL 17:08:20 jokoon: sbcl is one pretty popular implementation of common lisp 17:08:22 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.165.242] has joined #lisp 17:08:24 minion: sbcl 17:08:25 sbcl: Steel Bank Common Lisp is an open source / free software Common Lisp implementation. http://www.cliki.net/sbcl 17:08:41 jokoon: for windows, I'd suggest you go with either Allegro CL (http://franz.com) or Lispworks (http://www.lispworks.com). Both have limited, personal editions 17:08:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-219-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:08:55 Clozure Common Lisp should work good on Windows 17:09:07 minion: ccl 17:09:07 ccl: CCL is the Clozure Common Lisp implementation, its most recent release is available since 2010-10-06. http://www.cliki.net/ccl 17:09:13 jokoon: you may also find clisp useful for early experimentation 17:09:15 jokoon: this way, you'll avoid the complications of setting up SLIME 17:09:25 minion: clisp 17:09:26 clisp: CLISP is a Common Lisp implementation by Bruno Haible of Karlsruhe University and Michael Stoll of Munich University, both in Germany; the most recent release is dated 2010-07-07. http://www.cliki.net/clisp 17:09:36 and of course, there's Clozure CL and CLISP, both work well on Windows 17:09:45 p_l|home: setting up slime is quite easy :S 17:09:48 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-111-135.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:10:21 drdo: for someone who used Emacs yes, but I wasn't sure if jokoon was an emacs user or a complete newcomer :) 17:10:33 I used emacs a little 17:10:42 Or you can try Clojure - that is a modern lisp dialect running on the JVM 17:10:46 but not really my cup of cofee 17:11:00 argh I really want something compiled 17:11:05 not on the JVM 17:11:14 jokoon: the implementation you choose is not nearly as important as using Quicklisp 17:11:21 Deathaholic [~Mococa@187.114.165.242] has joined #lisp 17:11:22 minion: Quicklisp 17:11:23 Quicklisp: Quicklisp aims to make it easy to get started with a rich set of community-developed Common Lisp libraries. http://www.cliki.net/Quicklisp 17:11:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-219-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:11:37 *jokoon* 's head explodes 17:11:45 does anton have an .msi for his windows port of sbcl? 17:11:51 whow slow with the links please -_- 17:11:56 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.165.242] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:12:18 nikodemus: http://www.siftsoft.com/dl/sbcl-1.0.46.32.263.wth.kovalenko- 17:12:20 x86.msi 17:12:31 (sorry, should have been one line) 17:12:38 jokoon: Many here prefer (and develop SBCL). It is quite nice and integrates well with emacs/slime 17:12:38 that might be a good choise for jokoon 17:12:45 jokoon: abcl runs on the jvm. it compiles its lisp code to jvm byte code. 17:13:08 *nikodemus* fearlessly throws newbies into jaws of unofficial ports 17:13:09 Yes I read 17:13:12 and HotSpot with -server runs in compile mode 17:13:13 -!- Deathaholic is now known as Mococa 17:13:22 there was a report from one person yesterday that this MSI failed to install; might have been a glitch 17:13:26 jokoon: http://www.siftsoft.com/inprogress/forknews.html 17:13:32 abcl supports JRockit which also compiles. 17:13:47 *drdo* is smiling while reading this 17:13:49 ehu: what about Excelsior JET? 17:13:56 jokoon: I've had great experiences with SBCL on both windows and GNU/Linux 17:14:07 wait: is lisp compiled, interpreted, or both ? 17:14:10 Is there a *simple and safe* way to update structs at runtime? 17:14:20 jokoon: whichever you want. 17:14:21 jokoon: Depends on the implementation. 17:14:34 SBCL for example is compiled then 17:14:37 jokoon: neither. Most implementations use an incremental compiler, some of them compiling directly to native code 17:14:37 SBCL compiles, CLISP interprets, most others - both. 17:14:41 sbcl only compiles 17:14:42 p_l|home: no idea. where can I find info on it? 17:14:49 ok 17:14:50 SBCL has an interpreter 17:14:54 it does? 17:14:57 It's just... not often used. 17:15:05 Sure. Have an apropos for "*evaluator-mode*". 17:15:07 and disabled by default, afaik 17:15:11 jokoon: Early on it doesn't really matter if the lisp is compiled or interpreted. 17:15:15 oh i see 17:15:19 ehu: it's an Ahead of Time compiler for Java: http://www.excelsior-usa.com/jet.html 17:15:24 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.206] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:15:26 Well, it's not very useful anyway 17:15:32 compilation isn't THAT slow 17:15:57 Right, it's more part of the long-term plan to be able to ship applications without the compiler. 17:16:00 do some of you guys have examples of the industry using LISP for some products, except Jak & daxter's AI I don't have any other examples 17:16:10 (In a "no. no, it isn't" kind of way.) 17:16:21 jokoon: ITA? 17:16:28 nyef: fasls work great for that? 17:16:29 *nyef* points to ITA's QPX system. 17:16:35 and just plain source 17:16:50 drdo: Not if you're evaluating random crap at a REPL-ish interface. 17:17:02 Looks like it got washed away. :D 17:17:02 nyef: not quite. iirc it was merged so that build processes depending on (load "foo.lisp") (compile-file "foo.lisp") (load "foo.fasl") would not be so insanely slow 17:17:03 nikodemus, nyef: is there an up-to-date summary of your respective points of view regarding dmitry's branch (and less urgently so, anton's branch) on sbcl-devel, or can you give it here? 17:17:11 p_l|home: ah. ok. then probably it won't work, as our system expects to be able to load its own byte code. dmiles has created a system he's been using ahead of time compilation to run ABCL on mono. 17:17:14 jokoon: there is quite a lot hidden in various intranets - tech.coop afaik does handle quite a lot of developement in this area in CL 17:17:29 lichtblau: i haven't studied it since... october? 17:17:32 nikodemus: Right, hence the "no. no, it isn't" bit. 17:17:34 siscog uses CL 17:17:36 (The fact that the guy I want to work with on this went to Japan of all places this week notwithstanding.) 17:17:47 -!- ckelly [~ckelly@microgravity.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:17:47 -!- oconnore [~eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:18:05 jokoon: I'm developing an inhouse application (GUI) which is purely written in lisp. It's for the dutch national postal services. 17:18:06 tanyadda [724f31d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.114.79.49.214] has joined #lisp 17:18:34 lichtblau: I think I've looked at anton's branch most recently, and I was a touch underwhelmed at the amount of crap in win32-os.c, but I haven't done any serious looking in ages. 17:18:47 lichtblau: "went" as in "moved" to Japan ? 17:18:54 fe[nl]ix: month-long vacation 17:19:13 cool 17:19:14 jokoon: also, I've written an application (also GUI) which is running in one of the largest banks in the Netherlands. 17:19:16 can SBCL be debugged ? 17:19:21 yes 17:19:29 mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-69-181-1-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:30 jokoon: Usually. 17:19:46 jokoon: you mean does it come with a debugger? yes 17:19:49 lichtblau: hope he's ok. I guess there are a bunch of areas that are safe from mothra/godzilla. 17:19:50 jokoon: you need to screw it up badly to make it drop dead 17:19:58 or if you mean "stripped of all bugs", then yes too, but it will take some more effort 17:20:15 stassats: All programs contain at least one bug. 17:20:18 antifuchs: so do I. Can't reach him, but perhaps his phone is just off for roaming reasons. 17:20:19 jokoon: There are many commercial uses of Common Lisp. Indeed, there are also many uses which aren't publically visible b/c is CL is a "secret weapon" and it can be advantageous not to let the competition see the sources. One of the great advantages of Common Lisp is that it is an ANSI standard so your company can choose to use the implementation/libraries with the moste appropriate licensing... 17:20:19 if you rather mean how easy it is to use windows debug mode with it... no idea 17:20:34 lichtblau: there's the google earth person finder if you're worried 17:20:50 ... I've actually used the windows debugging APIs against SBCL before. 17:21:07 is lisp used in the army ? :) 17:21:16 Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:21:17 Admittedly, this was before SBCL/Win32 was committed upstream. 17:21:36 and Microsoft doesn't use LISP at all ? 17:21:42 jokoon: it was at least during Desert Storm 17:21:44 jokoon: depends on which army you mean 17:22:03 jokoon: several (US) defense projects have relied on lisp in the past 17:22:09 any thing tied to guns or warfare or NASA 17:22:17 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-176-211-39.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:30 no too research oriented, purely applied 17:22:31 jokoon: JPL *used* to use Lisp, and I recall some use in simulations 17:22:38 in desert storm ? on what ? 17:22:56 jokoon: logistics. Paid for all AI research till then 17:22:57 jokoon: why do you ask? 17:23:01 *paid off 17:23:18 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:23:21 *p_l|home* personally is thinking of sneaking CL into Polish Air Forces 17:23:40 jokoon: Good lisp source code can be readily traded for for "sweet crude" oil on the black-market... 17:23:40 tee hee 17:23:50 antifuchs because I'm fluent with C/C++, python, php etc, but I'm getting bored of those languages 17:24:01 mon_key: that's crude oil cut with molasses, right? 17:24:14 jokoon: alright (: 17:24:18 antifuchs: only crudest of course 17:24:35 antifuchs: Everytime you do that, you make me burn 10 extra brain cycles :( 17:24:41 antifuchs and I read somewhere that more things can be done with lisp than with C or C++ 17:24:56 -!- davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:24:59 jokoon: well, it's more flexible. 17:25:00 jokoon: don't believe these types of things 17:25:11 jokoon: but ultimately, it depends on the programmer 17:25:17 jokoon: that is patently false -- turing equivalence is turing equivalence 17:25:18 turing completeness etc 17:25:39 jokoon: Nothing is better than C. If you want C use C. 17:25:56 C is one of the best languages for writing C 17:26:05 antifuchs I'm also angry towards people getting crazy about C++ templates and others stuff and blaming C to be an old stupid language 17:26:36 I'm in a private progamming school, and it seems most people only do C++ 17:26:39 drdo: do what? 17:26:52 antifuchs: Reverse smiles 17:26:58 except asm. but forth is better than asm. and forth is almost as cool as smalltalk, which is almost as cool as erlang, which... 17:27:01 jokoon: C is great for what it was designed to be, though I'd prefer a little different syntax sometimes 17:27:02 ah 17:27:03 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:16 minion: tell jokoon about pcl-book 17:27:16 jokoon: direct your attention towards pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 17:27:20 jokoon: C is a great language to create libraries which need/can be bound to other languages from there. 17:27:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27:27 and because of project delays, nobody use something else than C++ because it's a broad language 17:27:36 dinnertime --> 17:28:23 Is there a *simple and safe* way to update struct definitions at runtime? 17:28:34 naryl: no. 17:28:43 naryl: you can't do that (portably) 17:28:45 naryl: restart your lisp (-; 17:29:01 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-170-197.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:29:06 sbcl-specific will be enough :) 17:29:17 naryl: it's the definition of the difference between structs and classes 17:29:18 yeah, even sbcl will mess up, probably 17:29:21 Ok, and how about *hard and safe*? 17:29:28 nikodemus: what are you (and others for that matter) using as a build farm to verify that SBCL changes work on more than just the usual linux/x86+amd64 OS/ISA combinations? 17:29:34 drop the package, reload the sources 17:29:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:29:38 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.165.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:29:38 You can probably have easy and unsafe 17:29:40 :P 17:29:51 I'm more concerned that structs are printable and readable. 17:30:00 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.165.242] has joined #lisp 17:30:06 ckelly [~ckelly@microgravity.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 17:30:37 antifuchs: Sadly it's a working system with a few instances of each struct. 17:30:42 redefine the structure, recompile the code 17:30:49 (which uses it) 17:30:55 back when I did the raw slot patch, I still had various weird MIPS hardware, but not anymore unfortunately. Or is a question of just checking in hoping for the best? :-) 17:31:53 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:59 lichtblau: the gcc farm for arch specifics. i don't really have access to a setup where i could test other than linux, darwin, or windows at the moment 17:32:01 I guess I don't need physical hardware; lots of SBCL-ready qemu images with OS preinstalled would also help. 17:32:03 lichtblau: MIPS hardware is quite easy to come by, fortunately, though I somehow doubt that SBCL will work nicely on mine.. 17:32:20 for arch stuff the gcc farm is great 17:32:31 used QEmu as well for testing 17:32:42 lichtblau: maybe #sbcl would be better for that discussion? (more people concerned would see it) 17:33:03 stassats: That's what I did. It said something about offsets and now throws errors on any attempt to print an instance. 17:33:24 also, throw away the old instances of the structure 17:33:30 (they're still using the old layout) 17:33:50 or in short: uses standard classes 17:34:00 s/uses/use/ 17:34:29 So I just need to go through the list creating a new struct for each old instance? 17:34:45 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 17:34:55 you need to use old accessors to access it 17:34:58 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:08 Ok, thanks. 17:38:07 SBCL testing on odd OS/arch combinations? 17:38:42 I had a G5 (died last week) that I did semi-regular builds on for a while. 17:38:58 Beyond that, I largely hope for the best. 17:39:29 well, if someone provides me with more memory I could try to build on Alpha... 17:39:47 ... but I'd need a new hard drive first, to install linux on :D 17:39:57 ... Either this emulator takes longer to crash than I remembered, it's stuck in an infinite loop, or my current CPU is more pathetic than I'd realized. :-/ 17:41:06 heh 17:41:28 I could theoretically run an emulated EV68 as well 17:41:39 though my laptop is dead slow on it 17:42:01 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:01 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@222.253.95.31] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:42 So, MIPS hardware is easy to obtain? 17:43:50 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-088-069-146-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:44:19 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:44:19 nyef: yes. 17:44:27 MIPS32 without FPU is a very common device 17:44:45 What about with FPU? 17:44:57 nyef: developement boards, maybe 17:45:01 Hrm. 17:45:13 The only MIPS box I've got right now is my playstation 2. 17:45:21 I have rather a lot of MIPS64 in >= R10k denominations. 17:45:30 MIPS32 is heavily used in network equipement, because Broadcom uses them exclusively in all of their hw 17:46:19 and their SoCs are commonly used to power COTS routers/APs 17:46:25 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:06 *p_l|home* has one of those in the attic 17:47:26 -!- The_Fellow1 [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:48:03 nyef: what would it take to get SBCL/arm working from the point you left it? 17:48:30 ... A lot of work, honestly. 17:49:12 I now know, in retrospect, that I was going about it all wrong. 17:49:17 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:49:51 heh 17:50:26 adobriyan [~ad@vulture2-nat-42.telecom.by] has joined #lisp 17:50:43 I was considering working on my own CL implementation once, to fulfill a niche for completely bytecoded implementation with permissive license 17:51:04 ARM definitely would make LDB/DPB JIT... interesting :D 17:51:17 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:51:21 p_l|home: why? 17:52:28 Fade: there's a barrel shifter as part of pipeline 17:52:42 serichsen [~user@f049128078.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:52:44 Barrel shifters are fun. 17:52:44 Hello! 17:52:47 ah 17:52:58 so any load/store can at the same time execute a logical or arithmetic shift 17:52:59 ARM also has scads of predicated instructions. 17:53:36 actually, I think it's more that most of the instruction formats include prediction flags and shift parameters 17:53:44 -!- koning_robot [~user@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:53:53 leo2007 [~leo@120.37.101.240] has joined #lisp 17:53:57 well, i've been building sbcl regularly on a G4 since nyef finished the ppc threading support. so far it _just_ _works_. 17:54:12 Odaym [~unix@212.36.209.4] has joined #lisp 17:54:13 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:16 PPC threading! \o/ 17:54:24 \o/ 17:54:32 why does Allegro CL refuse when i say "(DEFINE A (* 5 5))"? 17:54:38 seriously, thank you for that. :) 17:54:48 Odaym: Because it's a CL implementation, not a Scheme implementation. 17:54:53 hmm 17:54:55 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-98-78.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:58 yes, Common Lips 17:55:01 Lisp* 17:55:08 so what do i do if i want a function? 17:55:13 (defvar a (* 5 5)) 17:55:13 defun 17:55:15 clhs defun 17:55:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defun.htm 17:55:22 defun or defvar? 17:55:30 defun is for functions 17:55:38 defvar is for variables 17:55:39 and var variable 17:55:40 ok 17:55:43 and DEFINE? 17:55:44 DEFUN for a function, which is what you asked, but your example was a variable or a parameter. 17:55:45 alone? 17:55:47 define does not exist 17:55:50 DEFINE is scheme, not CL. 17:55:51 really? 17:55:58 really 17:55:59 well this MIT video is '86 17:56:02 so yea i guess 17:56:03 "define" 17:56:06 Odaym: it uses Scheme 17:56:08 SICP? That's scheme. 17:56:09 scheme doesn't uppercase symbols 17:56:16 alright i will try 17:56:23 weirdo: Does it lowercase them? 17:56:27 and what is the difference between the debugger and the editor? 17:56:28 Odaym: Are you watching SICP? 17:56:29 neither 17:56:36 why can i type right into the debugger? 17:56:43 -!- ckelly [~ckelly@microgravity.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:56:43 if you're doing SICP, install and use PLTracket or whatever they're calling it these days. 17:56:59 drdo, i'm watching Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, it's on MIT OpenCourseWare 17:56:59 "The Scheme implementation formerly known as PLT"? 17:57:00 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 17:57:07 that's the one 17:57:15 Odaym: Yes, what they use in there is Scheme 17:57:20 hmm 17:57:26 Scheme and Common Lisp are different dialects of LISP 17:57:36 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:57:39 and i can write programs in both? 17:57:41 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.165] has joined #lisp 17:57:44 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.234] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 17:57:49 <_3b> if you know both 17:57:59 Ahmm, sure, both are programming languages 17:58:05 <_3b> writing programs that work in both is sort of possible, but rather difficult 17:58:28 yes, but they are different languages. Both belong to Lisp family, though. (No language is allowed to call itself just "lisp", although it's more of a courtesy rather than a rule) 17:58:32 i want to learn it because the code repository for my AI course comes in LISP as well as python and java 17:58:37 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:58:39 and i thought it is a good chance to learn LISP 17:58:54 Odaym: ah well, then you have to find out which dialect that is 17:59:05 what is a defining feature? 17:59:10 Odaym: SICP is very good, but it's not specifically about lisp, it's about programming in general 17:59:11 if i see DEFUN, then that's CL? 17:59:17 <_3b> probably 17:59:21 Odaym: probably 17:59:23 ok let me check 17:59:32 Try: (symbol-package 'defun) 17:59:42 excerpt: (defvar *and-boolean-problem*) 17:59:43 (setq *and-boolean-problem* 17:59:43 (make-learning-proble 17:59:46 Otherwise, there could have been a (shadow 'defun) (defmacro defun ...) 17:59:46 it's CL 17:59:55 <_3b> yeah, that looks like CL 18:00:02 Odaym: yes, that looks like older CL code 18:00:10 Mmm. Old-school CL. 18:00:19 smells like CL, quacks like CL, it's CL 18:00:23 hehe 18:00:24 so i guess this video is..not correct for learning CL 18:00:29 -!- kauwgom [~reid@pool-173-53-249-101.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:00:31 nop 18:00:37 but the guy is so intelligent! 18:00:39 (Possibly not very old-school, but still... SETQ? Really?) 18:00:41 haha 18:00:54 <_3b> yeah, it is a good source for learning programming in general 18:00:56 It's a good video for learning to program, or so I hear. 18:00:58 Odaym: It's very good, but it's not about learning CL or Scheme for that matter 18:01:10 you've all seen it? 18:01:11 *nyef* found the book boring until about chapter 3, and never watched the videos. 18:01:18 <_3b> minion: tell Odaym about pcl 18:01:19 who of you are MIT? 18:01:20 Odaym: have a look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 18:01:25 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 18:01:26 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:01:27 Odaym: it's this file: http://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/lisp/learning/domains/and-boolean.lisp 18:01:30 nyef: The videos are pretty good 18:01:46 yes antifuchs 18:01:48 *nyef* winces. 18:01:53 so who of you are MIT? 18:01:56 so now we know (: 18:02:05 it's cl, but not idiomatic 18:02:17 Odaym: I didn't get in :P 18:02:20 hehe 18:02:22 really? 18:02:22 At least it's not PAIP code, right? That was definitely pre-ANSI. 18:02:32 r e j e c t e d? 18:02:40 guess you didn't pay enough! 18:02:43 Odaym: really. But when you are competing with hundreds for one of ~10 places... 18:02:48 nyef: true. but paip's code is generally better than that, right? (: 18:02:50 damn elitists 18:02:53 but they are good i guess 18:03:16 hmm... not 10, 100. I think that was the number of accepted international students every year 18:03:38 Is it really worth being an undergrad at such a university considering the monstrous tuition price? 18:03:42 ckelly [~ckelly@microgravity.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:03:53 $53,000+ per year 18:04:09 drdo: no, according to Greenspun, the US education system is fucked up. 18:04:15 I got in but couldn't afford to go as a foreign student. 18:04:41 I am from Lebanon, here 18:05:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@73.Red-88-19-188.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:05:49 pjb: In Portugal, the best universities are public, with very modest tuition prices, and none if you are below a certain income level, admissions work like everywhere else, the highest X get in 18:06:17 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.208] has joined #lisp 18:06:47 drdo: it could be even cheaper, given the Internet. 18:07:11 pjb: How so? 18:07:15 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.119.57] has joined #lisp 18:07:22 drdo: in NL we have limited numbers only for some curricula 18:07:43 drdo: see Sugata Mitra's and Salman Khan's presentations at ted.com 18:07:55 drdo: most have no limit (but do require entry knowledge, like high school math of a certain level) 18:08:12 ehu: How do you handle things if there is no limit? 18:08:39 the expectation is that the numbers will stay low enough. but there have been problematic years. 18:08:42 I mean, there is limited staff, limited space, etc 18:09:05 like curricula growing by 40% or more in a single year. 18:10:14 There are problems here in some degrees 18:10:15 so in Allegro CL, the debugger is as if i am writing directly into the console, and the editor is for when i want to write a program and have it later compiled and whatsoever 18:10:37 Some have such a high bar to get in, that people go to other EU countries 18:10:42 -!- Hoornet [~Hoornet@93.103.24.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:06 Odaym: Are you familiar with the concept of REPL? 18:11:14 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:11:18 thankfully, i have a research position in portugal and don't have to worry about the flood of students and the disastrous movements that happen at the beginning of each academic year 18:11:23 no, but the link is staring at me, it's the second topic in PCL 18:11:35 alama: Where? 18:11:42 Odaym: read the book, then ask questions. 18:11:45 rononovski_ [~rononovsk@bzq-79-177-185-192.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:52 drdo: universidade nova de lisboa 18:12:10 drdo: universities are paid by succesfully builded student, so they're generally inclined to accomodate. 18:12:12 I see, i'm currently at IST 18:12:34 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@109.66.184.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:12:44 ehu: That's a huge problem 18:12:48 drdo: cool! 18:13:20 ehu: That leads to standards being lowered in the name of having more students graduate 18:13:29 drdo: correct. the government has noticed too. 18:14:10 we had an incident where it seems a university might have done that. 18:14:20 -!- tanyadda [724f31d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.114.79.49.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:14:30 ehu: They do it everywhere 18:17:26 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:18:07 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-178-131.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:18:18 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-100.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:19:18 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:19:26 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:21:10 oconnore [~eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:07 really smooth way of writing in this book 18:22:10 Gmind [~Gmind@113.190.162.116] has joined #lisp 18:22:36 Hi Lisper 18:23:20 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 18:23:59 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 18:24:36 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:25:24 Odaym: oh? what book is that? 18:25:53 PCL 18:25:54 bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 18:26:03 <_3b> nikodemus: is there any way in esrap to make a rule test a special var, or just call a function without looking at the test being parsed? 18:27:26 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 18:27:40 -!- oconnore [~eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:27:59 oconnore [~eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:03 guys 18:28:20 How to edit startup setting for LispBOx ? 18:28:28 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-150-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:33 I want to change the font and background color 18:29:03 <_3b> might try M-x customize 18:29:32 but on the startup 18:29:35 =.= 18:29:52 I've already known how to do this w/ my emacs 18:29:56 but not with lispbox 18:29:57 _3b: out of box, i don't think so -- but i suspect that allowing sematic predicates without arguments should be pretty easy to add 18:30:03 the setting file is elsewhere ? 18:30:03 semantic, even 18:30:13 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-100.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 18:30:48 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-209-70.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 18:31:36 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.208] has joined #lisp 18:33:06 <_3b> ok, i'll look at making the arg optional for predicates 18:33:43 very good introduction! 18:33:47 i like this book already! 18:33:49 thanks 18:34:09 basho___ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-150-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:21 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:34:27 Gmind: I'd suggest dropping Lispbox, unless it got updated for Quicklisp 18:35:21 these days, default install of SBCL (on linux/Mac), CCL (Linux/Mac/Windows) or LispWorks or Allegro CL can be easily set up thanks to it 18:35:36 p_l|home, I don't know why I must do that, because it's working quite well for me :P and its Slime is up-to-date too 18:35:57 =.= ya, u right 18:36:03 lots of IDE now 18:36:28 Gmind: ah, it's updated somehow? 18:36:34 ya because 18:36:45 I see the SLIME version is 04-02-2011 18:36:46 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-150-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:36:46 anyway, if it's using Emacs, configure it like it's emacs... 18:37:04 I can't find its start-up like ".emacs" 18:37:09 check the script that launches it for any params that change config files 18:37:21 ya, wish I can find :P 18:37:39 <_3b> if you just open ~/.emacs from it and add to that, does it reload it next time? 18:37:42 snearch [~snearch@f053011121.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:38:21 Gmind: you don't know how you run LispBox? :) 18:39:05 _3b: I think: No. Because It's my Emacs conf , not LispBox's one :( 18:39:08 <_3b> ah, looks like it runs emacs with --no-init-file 18:39:10 kerx__ [~kerx@209.208.63.169] has joined #lisp 18:39:39 <_3b> well, sounds like you found a 'why' and a 'not working quite well' :p\ 18:39:45 p_l|home, yes, because I am not LispBox author :)) 18:40:26 -!- basho___ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-150-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:40:27 _3b: Just don't know where the conf file is, just set the color and it's fine :P So I don't need to do it everytime 18:40:35 -!- cnl_ [~cnl@94.231.125.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:37 <_3b> there is no conf file 18:40:46 <_3b> it explicitly runs emacs so it doesn't load one 18:40:54 :-s 18:41:00 Gmind: you need to edit the script that starts it to add a line to load your own config file 18:41:01 <_3b> if you already use emacs, switching to quicklisp should be easy enough though 18:41:23 is quicklisp similar to slime ? 18:41:35 <_3b> quicklisp downloads libraries for you 18:41:39 Gmind: no, it's a way to install libraries 18:41:45 <_3b> and can also help you set up slime 18:41:52 as well as get a current and working slime, if you want 18:42:19 <_3b> which just leaves getting a lisp, and you can probably grab the one out of lispbox easily enough, or get a separate one 18:44:18 Gmind: what distro/OS are you using? 18:44:57 p_l|home, I am currently using Ubuntu 10.10 :D 18:45:30 _3b: so quickLisp is a kind of supporting INstaller ? 18:45:45 cnl [~cnl@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 18:46:02 -!- alama [~alama@182.113.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 18:46:03 <_3b> right 18:46:07 Gmind: distribution system and installer 18:46:34 some of us ended up donating a steady stream of money to Xach for working on it :D 18:48:38 oh, i heard about that, but have never tried :P 18:48:44 *p_l|home* didn't... yet. Definitely worth it 18:49:16 Ubuntu is good enough for now :P 18:49:23 for a student like me 18:49:48 money is smt ,we lack all time 18:49:52 :)) 18:50:20 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:51:46 -!- shaunren [~shaun@bas2-cooksville17-1279412276.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:50 -!- ckelly [~ckelly@microgravity.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:56:17 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:57:24 anyway, just install SBCL from a package, avoid common-lisp-controller, and install quicklisp, and voila! - modern open source lisp config ready to use :D 18:58:12 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:46 :P 18:58:50 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-69-181-1-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 18:58:55 p_l|home 18:59:21 p_l|home, nice tips . I will let u know when I done it 18:59:27 -!- csamuelson [~csamuelso@ec2-50-17-240-121.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 18:59:30 thank everyone btw :D 19:01:11 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:03:14 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-150-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:43 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 19:04:26 -!- Gmind [~Gmind@113.190.162.116] has left #lisp 19:06:12 alama [~alama@a79-169-81-87.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 19:08:57 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 19:14:36 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:15:25 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:16:38 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 19:17:36 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053011121.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:18:05 Have you ever wondered why no one has suggested alternative languages for Javascript on browsers? What's preventing some browser maker to implement some other language? 19:18:26 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.165.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:18:32 *_3b* thought lots of people had suggested it 19:18:32 The more I learn Javascript, the more I think it is severely impaired... 19:18:54 I have never heard of any suggestions. Examples? 19:18:55 *_3b* suspects browser devs have enough work to do just making JS run well though 19:19:06 *peterhil`* partially agrees 19:19:31 Although now some JS engines are pretty fast 19:19:52 *peterhil`* leaves, but reads the answers later 19:20:02 <_3b> i think most of the people suggesting it seriously just compile to JS (either on browser or as a preprocess) 19:20:19 lua would be awesome as js alternative, much more powerfull and faster, thats what i tell for some years now but nobody is listening 19:20:44 <_3b> pretty sure i've seen a browser with a scheme or lisp hacked into it also 19:20:57 Why does the language need to be human readable/programmable? 19:21:08 _3b: scheme or lisp would be cool 19:21:23 Or guile? 19:21:24 What would be cool is some standard that everyone can compile down to 19:21:39 But maybe Guile would be too slow 19:22:05 And not appropriate for browsers event based style 19:22:27 peterhil`: there were multiple languages, some even before JS 19:22:33 why not common lisp? It's not like firefox is not bloated 19:22:45 prxq: :-D 19:22:47 also, JS isn't that bad 19:23:01 it's a scheme with weird syntax and borked GC, though :P 19:23:08 p_l|home: But it could be much better 19:24:03 If you want do anything fancy you better have your own utility classes already written - well, just like in Scheme 19:24:05 :) 19:24:11 *peterhil`* really leaves now 19:24:27 *p_l|home* just uses few common libs 19:25:22 nah lua is much closer to scheme, js is just crap, not good for anything 19:25:36 is there such a thing as "Defstructure" in CL? 19:25:44 defstruct 19:25:48 thought so 19:25:51 urandom__: lua is also crap. Lisp is much, much better. 19:26:00 and the dialect that uses "defstructure" is what? 19:26:18 Odaym: that may be a wrapper macro written in a specific program. 19:26:48 <_3b> google suggests 'defstructure' might be from acl2 19:27:15 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:27:34 Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:28:01 prxq well lua is very much inspired by lisp/scheme, just with an ALGOL-based syntax, i wouldnt call it crap 19:28:05 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs109108011008.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:28:50 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:29:10 Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:29:14 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.165.242] has joined #lisp 19:30:01 prxq lisp syntax is too different, so not many people would agree on it as an js alternative, lua makes user of mainstream programming languages feel familiar 19:30:53 but a lisp would of course also be awesome, though common lisp is a bit bloated 19:30:57 right. lua is a dumbed down lisp/scheme ripoff. 19:31:17 at least, that's what they claim 19:32:33 <_3b> Odaym: ah, given the link earlier, it is probably http://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/lisp/doc/overview-UTILITIES.html#utilities/cltl2.lisp 19:32:34 CL is not bloated, just pretty much full-featured. 19:33:01 it's in the "cognac game" 19:33:12 but now it's giving me that it cannot the imported ttt-game 19:33:16 dont know where that is 19:33:20 <_3b> Odaym: so basically some compatibility lib for old versions of CL before it was standardized, but might still work if you load the library 19:33:38 ckelly [~ckelly@microgravity.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:34:59 CL is not bloated: people are constantly complaining it lacks some things. 19:35:15 aah, now i can see how to load the files 19:35:17 wait 19:36:11 if i use load, where will it try fetching from? 19:36:20 MoALTz [~no@92.18.95.31] has joined #lisp 19:37:21 home 19:37:39 Odaym: are you answering your own question? 19:37:44 just tried it 19:37:45 :) 19:37:48 Odaym: normally, the directory where the lisp was started 19:38:02 Because unless you're using ABCL, CL:LOAD doesn't fetch. 19:38:03 Odaym: (what are you using again) 19:38:08 Allegro 19:38:08 Odaym: it's loading relative to *default-pathname-defaults* 19:38:13 <_3b> *default-pathname-defaults*, probably whereever you started lisp (or maybe dir of buffer you loaded slime from if using slime) 19:38:36 still weak in Emacs, prefer allegro for now 19:38:54 Has anybody spoken of emacs? 19:38:57 CL doesn't support the concept of current directory the way it happens in Unix or Windows, it follows the VMS model default directory 19:38:57 *_3b* doesn't know what allegro IDE does, but probably similat 19:39:01 isnt it in Emacs? 19:39:05 it's what the book says 19:39:06 Odaym: no 19:39:06 <_3b> pjb: i did (indirectly) 19:39:15 ah, unless you were trying to load in elisp 19:39:15 pjb: people always complain about lack of stuff regardles on how bloated the software is, the opposite is true, the more bloated the more they expect 19:39:23 Ok. 19:39:38 urandom__: granted. 19:39:52 <_3b> Odaym: slime requires emacs, yes. allegro IDE is a reasonable alternative though, if you prefer it 19:40:00 yea 19:40:52 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 19:42:19 *p_l|home* finds it funny how CL is similar to VMS even in naming when it comes to pathnames 19:42:53 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:33 though MVS was slightly similar 19:44:21 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:45:25 mattrepl [~mattrepl@204.14.152.118] has joined #lisp 19:46:06 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:46:13 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:13 nah. Common Lisp really isn't bloated. 19:47:17 who here was looking for the Y combinator as represented just with lambdas? 19:47:24 maybe this is it -> ((()( ))(()( ))) 19:47:34 Maybe for a language form the 60's, but not for the 21st century 19:49:35 java is much bigger than CL. 19:49:46 anybody complaining about Java's library size? 19:49:56 me is complaining 19:50:03 prxq: the only languages it could be bloated when compared to would be fortran, pascal and C 19:50:10 maybe Algol 68 19:50:19 urandom__: right. you're using CL. Now Java programmers. 19:50:33 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:37 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:50:39 I'm unsure which one was the "minimal" algol, 60 or 68. 19:50:45 java programmers are fuckheads, i dont care what they say 19:50:55 PL/I definitely kicks CL out of the water when it comes to "bloat" 19:50:56 urandom__: oh? 19:51:27 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.119.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:51:58 oh, what? 19:52:00 -!- bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:52:21 oh it was twb that wanted to know the Y-combinator with only lambda symbols. I'll wait for him to show up. 19:53:06 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:53:25 lanthan [~ze@80.64.176.30] has joined #lisp 19:54:45 "oh, why do you need to classify other people that way"? 19:54:51 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:55:22 beautiful :) 19:55:26 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.119.57] has joined #lisp 19:55:33 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:42 what a powerful compiler 19:56:12 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 19:56:12 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 19:56:12 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:56:14 that just froze :) 19:56:16 haha 19:56:19 p_l|home: All of which need libraries out of their defined standard to be remotely useful, no? 19:56:28 C certainly does... 19:56:39 ehu what is wrong with it? i am pretty sure there are more java programmers being fuckheads than cl programmers being fuckheads 19:56:47 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 19:56:57 Odin-: of course. And scheme, the posterchild of anti-bloat, too. It's just a red herring 19:57:09 urandom__: your vocabulary 19:57:28 urandom__: what prxq says 19:57:33 Odin-: technically, ANSI C standard library is just an adaptation of Unix C API... 19:57:44 p_l|home: See what I mean? 19:58:03 *Odin-* finds the notion that C is a portable language hilarious. 19:58:07 Pascal at least has I/O defined, but C by itself is just a structural assembler 19:58:14 It's portable between *machines*, not operating systems, twit. :p 19:58:18 Odin-: ah, you are mistaking it's purpose 19:58:18 _3b, i loaded all the code and compiled and tested it 19:58:27 C and Unix are basically the same thing. :p 19:58:31 C is a portable assembler-style language 19:58:36 but upon testing, _3b, it did a LOT of it but now its lagging a little at a certain point 19:58:39 prxq i am not a native speaker and also a very unfriendly one :P 19:58:49 p_l|home: Nope, I'm aware. I just find it funny how many people aren't. 19:59:01 Odin-: not exactly...I think I even recall a Pascal-implemented *nix 19:59:25 p_l|home: I'll bet it's possible to build a conforming POSIX implementation in Common Lisp. 19:59:28 and FreeBSD was recently looking into introducing a new language into its kernel developement 19:59:36 p_l|home: ... but it'll include a C compiler. 19:59:50 urandom__: neither are excuses to use those words 20:00:11 ehu what is wrong with using these words? 20:00:21 p_l|home: better late than never 20:00:24 Odin-: depends which part. There's a part of the standard that lists features, and one of *possible* developement features is C compiler kit. Another is Fortran. 20:00:28 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:47 a separate one lists developement tools like "patch", "make" etc. 20:00:53 p_l|home: Last I looked, cc was one of the standard utilities. 20:01:15 urandom__: just remember that they're not to be used 20:01:16 Base POSIX. But, fair enough. 20:01:29 The real dependency is the other way around. 20:01:31 Odin-: it's part of Developement kit. It can be absent from a conforming implementation 20:01:46 ehu no thats not a valid reason for me, pls explain 20:02:00 though in such case the system shouldn't list certain feature 20:02:06 I.e.; POSIX can be implemented away from C; but C pulls in quite a lot of POSIX. 20:02:31 Which isn't hard to understand or anything. 20:02:49 urandom__: it wasn't meant to be a reason. 20:03:16 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-100.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:03:30 But when you have systems that are either POSIX or designed to be backwards-compatible with hackish clones of hackish clones of POSIX ... it gets hard to talk about diverse operating systems with a straight face. 20:04:11 yeah 20:04:38 "cc" falls under POSIX2_C_DEV 20:04:51 ehu is that so? well sounds like i can keep using the word "fuckhead" 20:05:08 though I doubt linux systems remember to report lack of C compiler correctly :D 20:05:28 p_l|home: Do they claim POSIX conformance? 20:05:50 Odin-: fortunately no :D 20:06:10 I thought that was one of Apple's tricks, saying Darwin was the only open source POSIX system. 20:06:28 _3b, on Allegro, if i type "(load "file.lisp")" and it loads successfully, how do i compile it or run it? 20:06:39 actually, *BSD are kinda grandfathered, but no one bothers paying for official certification 20:06:40 Well. Apart from OpenSolaris, while that existed. 20:06:48 Loading executes it already. 20:07:03 (load (compile-file "file.lisp")) will load the compiled version. 20:07:20 p_l|home: Which raises the question of whether they're strictly compliant or not. 20:07:25 *Odin-* would bet they aren't. 20:07:27 This is not to say that load won't compile (I don't know about Allegro, but SBCL will compile upon loading by default). 20:07:28 Odin-: OpenSolaris actually was less POSIX conformant, but both Solaris and OpenSolaris were from single source - it's just that OpenSolaris added unnecessary GNU crap 20:07:45 p_l|home: OpenSolaris the project, not the distro. 20:08:03 *Odin-* still doesn't understand why they didn't just keep the name Indiana. 20:08:10 Odin-: the project was slightly differently named 20:08:13 iirc 20:08:23 it's just that OpenSolaris was sorta "flagship" 20:08:24 p_l|home: opensolaris.org versus opensolaris.com 20:08:55 The former still exists as a shadow of its former self. 20:09:34 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:10:03 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:11:16 well, one can count on Oracle to break stuff. EOT 20:11:21 back to lisp :) 20:11:36 Intensity [ABmPaJzNgn@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 20:11:36 Fair enough. :p 20:12:48 do I understand correctly that :initform forms can't refer to one another like initial values for function arguments do? 20:13:04 i'm "workarounding with defmethod initialize-instance :after 20:13:07 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:09 Correct. There's a trick however. 20:14:46 adobriyan: That's not really a workaround, just The Right Way(TM) 20:14:56 pjb: please share it 20:15:31 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:17:21 For example http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/440fc43dc000b89b?hl=en ; there are others in cll too. 20:18:31 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 20:22:16 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-101-5.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:22:21 and http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/f6768b21bd2695a/f0d082f83437f35b?q=let+self+initialize-instance+initform+group:comp.lang.lisp#f0d082f83437f35b 20:23:15 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-101-5.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 20:23:36 emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-169451.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:24:21 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 20:25:44 sometimes in Allegro when i type enter at the end of the line in REPL, it just takes carriage return .. 20:25:49 and doesn't execute 20:26:06 what could it execute? 20:26:19 *_3b* 's guess would be unbalanced parens or quotes or something 20:26:31 i want to do this (aima-load 'agents) 20:26:33 I'd prefer if Odaym guessed that. 20:26:38 and it works when i did it for utilities 20:26:44 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-171948.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:26:56 You still must have either open parentheses, or an infinite loop. 20:26:58 with 1 single quote behind the name 20:26:59 Odaym: which enter? 20:27:13 Odaym: numeric-enter has a different function than alphanum-enter 20:27:18 im in REPL, so the usual enter 20:27:57 *_3b* 's other guess would be that it worked but just didn't do anything obvious 20:28:19 it works when i pressed enter many times than f9 again 20:29:10 took in a lot of lisp today for a first day 20:29:13 <_3b> lisppaste: url 20:29:13 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 20:29:17 i am very happy 20:29:18 :) 20:29:44 <_3b> Odaym: for best results, go to that URL, paste your interaction with the lisp, and what you expected to happen 20:30:05 <_3b> we don't all use the same lisp, probably haven't used that software, and can only guess what you mean by 'worked' :) 20:30:25 thanks a lot for the book and most everything today, guys 20:30:31 much appreciated 20:30:33 later 20:31:00 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 20:31:14 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:31:25 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:11 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:32:20 -!- slash_1 is now known as slash_ 20:33:52 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.119.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:37 francogrex [~user@109.130.115.37] has joined #lisp 20:36:46 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 20:36:46 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:37:18 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 20:37:32 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:35 can "step" be considered as equivalent to gdb in C ? 20:44:03 *_3b* doubts it 20:44:29 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 20:45:08 <_3b> it can be considered part of a lisp debugger which might be comparable as a whole 20:46:02 <_3b> probably would need to include implementation specific things as well to match all of gdb though, if at all 20:46:49 <_3b> (but many lisps probably have features GDB would have trouble matching) 20:48:51 _3b: ok; I ask because I (and most probably it's just me) am having trouble stepping through a program the way gdb lets me inspect all variables... sometimes the absence of local variables or the fact that the stepper skips over is frustrating 20:49:20 <_3b> you might try compiling with a higher debug setting 20:50:21 <_3b> C-u C-c C-c in slime is an easy way to recompile a function with high debug, or C-u C-c C-k for a whole file 20:50:34 rolando [~user@26.179.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:54:57 hello lispers! 20:55:46 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:58:23 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:58:30 MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.86.154] has joined #lisp 20:59:57 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 21:00:46 ok will try thx 21:00:52 hi mon_key 21:01:23 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.95.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:02:06 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 21:04:35 I should really make an effort to learn the loop macro now... 21:04:46 mon_key pasted "destructive-operation-p inside loop inside macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120465 21:04:48 *sykopomp* wonders what others use to handle AJAX-related calls when using hunchentoot that involves minimal, if any, javascript/parenscript writing. 21:04:52 Saturnation: it's easy1 21:04:55 ! 21:05:10 yeah, I know, but I've been putting it off until the need to do it is staring me in the face 21:05:21 which is RIGHT NOW 21:05:42 long day, hard to get motivated, but pushing on... 21:05:52 *Saturnation* pulls out PCL... 21:06:15 mon_key: delete _is_ destructive 21:06:59 hmm, maybe all I need is dotimes 21:07:03 *stassats* doesn't really understand the question 21:07:07 *_3b* would expect collect ... into to make a fresh list though, and you are done iterating, so delete on it seems reasonable 21:07:18 stassats: So when loop "collects into" it doesn't create a fresh list? 21:07:29 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-209-70.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:37 mon_key: how does that follow from what i said? 21:07:55 and why do you need to delete, why not just not collect it? 21:08:00 *_3b* had trouble parsing the question too, so might have answered the wrong thing 21:08:13 <_3b> yeah, not collecting sounds like a better idea 21:08:43 The orginal string-case errored on nil but allowed T but didn't allow either inside of a keyform 21:09:01 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 21:09:08 I wanted a version that would accept nil and t as keyforms and then ignore them. 21:09:33 <_3b> right, so ignore them before accepting them :) 21:09:58 <_3b> unless (booleanp test) collect `(...) 21:10:07 Yuuhi [benni@p5483DC57.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:12 why nil and t need a special treatment? 21:10:14 no because test is a list 21:10:56 stassats: b/c both occure with high frequency when walking list forms??? 21:11:05 they do??? 21:12:00 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:12:47 stassats: the question is/was can "collect into foo finally (return (delete-if #'bar foo))" be destructive of foo? 21:12:53 *_3b* would expect t as the key in a case-like form to be a default, not ignored though 21:13:14 _3b: if it's at the last place 21:13:49 mon_key: delete is destructive, and i again can't seem to handler the gist of the question 21:13:50 _3b yes. but as written the typecase on sequence will pick up nill 21:14:12 stassats: does "collect into foo" create a new list? 21:14:18 it does 21:14:24 <_3b> stassats: i think the original question was whether it was safe to use destructive ops on that particular list 21:14:54 mon_key: what could it possibly do otherwise? 21:15:37 <_3b> hmm, sbcl CASE seems to be buggy... it accepts T as a key 21:15:46 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:28 <_3b> (case t (t 1) (t 2)) => 1, (case nil (t 1) (t 2)) => 2 21:17:15 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 21:17:15 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:17:37 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:47 _3b: even stronger: (case nil (t 1) (t 2) (t 3)) --> 3 ! 21:17:54 But this is all as specified. 21:18:03 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-170-197.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:12 it should be (t), as specified 21:18:15 You're forgetting the difference between list and list designator, and check the syntax for CASE. 21:18:20 <_3b> pjb: "the designators (t) and (otherwise), respectively, must be used instead."? 21:19:05 <_3b> (or "the symbols t and otherwise may not be used as the keys designator.") 21:19:35 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 21:19:40 it should at least signal a warning 21:20:01 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:20:17 _3b: that said, {x}* [x] in general parses {x}* ; clearly implementations take the spirit of that BNF, and parse {x}* x instead... 21:20:28 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:21:06 _3b: the conclusion is that to write more clearly a case, you should put parentheses and use otherwise: (case x ((t) 1) ((nil) 2) (otherwise 3)) 21:21:29 isn't the standard quite explicit about that? 21:21:49 *_3b* 's conclusion is that you /must/ use (t), because you /may not/ use t as a designator for keys 21:22:34 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-211-39.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:47 cl 21:23:00 sorry 21:25:25 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:29 _3b: not really. Only the last (t ...) can be an otherwise-clause. The previous ones must be parsed as normal-clauses, and (t 1) is a perfectly good normal-clause. 21:25:30 *_3b* supposes acceptiing it isn't actually 'buggy', but i'd expect a style-warning given SBCL's usual behavior 21:25:32 Xach: if you're busy creating a dist: I've just uploaded usocket 0.5.0 (yesterday's trunk) 21:25:52 Xach: trunk will get some big refactoring for clisp in months to come. 21:26:04 you should be safer to depend on the release branch for a while. 21:26:06 <_3b> pjb: are you reading the description of "keys" under "Arguments and Values:" and interpreting it differently? 21:26:15 ehu: woo 21:26:30 ehu: What's the URL for 5.0? 21:26:32 But I cannot find anything else that would imply that in (case x (t 1) (t 2) (t 3)) (t 3) MUST be an otherwise-clause. It could as well be interpreted as a normal-clause. Therefore I'd say this case expression is not conforming. 21:26:32 :-) 21:26:54 <_3b> pbj: no matter how 'otherwise clause' is interpreted, it is pretty specific about what is allowed in 'normal-clause' 21:27:13 Xach: http://common-lisp.net/project/usocket/releases/usocket-0.5.0.tar.gz{,.asc} 21:27:14 <_3b> right, it is non-conforming 21:27:20 _3b: Oops, I didn't read at all. You're correct, (t ...) is invalid in a normal-clause. 21:27:32 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:27:55 ehu: I'll build everything and report what happens. 21:28:03 thanks! 21:28:30 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.254.208] has joined #lisp 21:29:17 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:30:08 *Xach* is sad that there have been regressions in some tamas k. pappware 21:30:35 *stassats* just made his first commit to sbcl, hopes he didn't screw anything up 21:32:05 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:00 did you remember to increment version.lisp-expr? 21:33:11 that's the only important thing, really :-) 21:33:13 yes! at the very last moment 21:33:15 (congratulations) 21:34:56 can someone add usocket 0.5.0 to the topic? 21:35:04 thanks! 21:36:51 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.165] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:37:24 I do wish that LispWorks (or Lisp IDEs in general) had basic refactoring support... 21:37:40 Saturnation: what would that be? 21:37:42 or is that not the Lispy way 21:37:59 M-% for the rescue! 21:38:08 prxq, all i really want is select some text and extract a function 21:38:26 <_3b> i think redshank does some refactoring 21:38:26 and inline variable 21:38:49 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:38:55 Saturnation: like let ((x ..) 21:38:57 *Saturnation* has gotten used to the refactoring crutches in IntellJ :( 21:39:00 Saturnation: yes, in lisp you usually write the code you want from the gun 21:39:00 Saturnation: I'm afraid I did not understand that. What do you mean with extract a function? 21:39:07 <_3b> looks like it has extract function 21:39:17 so you never need to refactor it 21:39:17 ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:39:25 mark a piece of code and make it a function? 21:39:34 stassats, I'm writing it now, simple and I want to refactor NOW 21:39:45 so I disagree with your belief :) 21:39:50 <_3b> http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/redshank/ 21:39:58 Saturnation: you're allowed to disagree with me 21:40:37 binghe [~binghe@122.234.235.233] has joined #lisp 21:40:46 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 21:41:01 hmm, LispWorks is backed by Lisp, so, in theory, it could be implemented to extend the IDE 21:41:15 *_3b* wonders what the right-angle things in the fringe are in that screencast 21:41:49 _3b: beginning of the buffer, end of the buffer 21:42:28 <_3b> is the end of buffer one flipping sometimes to indicate incomplete forms? 21:42:44 LispWorks is backed by Lisp ? 21:43:15 see indicate-buffer-boundaries 21:44:16 <_3b> cool 21:44:47 francogrex, the LispWorks IDE is written in Lisp 21:45:17 typing (quit) in the LispWorks listener illustrates this :) 21:45:24 <_3b> ah, i guess it flips to indicate no newline at end of buffer 21:45:41 Saturnation: it doesn't, really 21:45:47 oh yeah 21:45:53 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:45:53 nice, in a way :) 21:46:21 the flip side of that is you can have a lisp listener pane in your gui application (which would be nice for debugging...) 21:46:29 ok; but even if it's not "backed up by lisp" but by something else it could still extend the IDE.. I don't see the logic 21:46:29 (i mean that it doesn't illustrate) 21:46:54 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:27 stassats, if you are being literal, then yes it does, it pulls out a pen and illustrates that calling quit will terminate the IDE and then it promptly terminates itself :P 21:47:32 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:39 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:48:09 still, you can do that with it being written in just about anything 21:48:09 *Saturnation* goes back to refactoring by hand... 21:48:28 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 21:48:30 yeah, I guess it's having the repl that is the key? 21:49:18 i can make so that when you type (quit) in slime REPL it will exit Emacs 21:49:54 pnq [~nick@ACA31CC8.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:06 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002599.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:44 stassats: so, emacs must be backed by lisp. 21:51:01 but by a different lisp! 21:51:04 :-) 21:51:05 ehu: not likely. 21:51:05 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:25 but, i have a slime client which is written in shell, and i can make it quit after (quit) too! 21:52:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:53:12 what's the EMACS command for capitalizing a word? 21:53:25 C-x C-u 21:53:31 <_3b> M-c ? 21:53:49 thanks 21:54:02 must remember M-c ? and see if it works in LispWorks... 21:54:11 <_3b> sorry, just M-c 21:54:25 <_3b> the ? was me not being sure if that was what you were asking :) 21:54:32 (C-x C-u is for upcasing a region) 21:54:43 ah, 21:54:58 (and M-u is for upcasing a word) 21:55:11 <_3b> M-c upcases first letter, and downcases rest of next word, M-u upcases whole word, M-l downcases 21:55:13 ah, really what the capitalize the whole word (not sure what the term for that is other than constantizing?) 21:55:24 upcasing 21:55:28 _3b, thanks for reading my mind :) 21:55:47 *Saturnation* goes back to right slightly less rubbishy Lisp code... 21:57:21 -!- gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 21:57:26 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@120.37.101.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:58:46 _3b, that upercases forward, is there a command to uppercase backwards? 21:58:59 <_3b> use negative prefix arg 21:59:17 <_3b> so M-- M-u for 1 word, M-- 2 M-u for 2 words, etc 21:59:53 <_3b> or M-- M-2 M-u for possibly easier typing 22:00:16 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:00:28 M-b M-u seems just as easy :( 22:00:52 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 22:01:13 <_3b> yeah, i probably don't use prefix args as much as i could either 22:02:04 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:11 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 22:04:15 it's useful to for producing exclamations!!! 22:04:59 *Saturnation* just finds LispWorks completions don't respect the uppercase-ness of some symbols 22:05:09 <_3b> M-x slime is the only thing i can think of i intentionally use prefix args on reasonably often 22:05:20 -!- binghe [~binghe@122.234.235.233] has left #lisp 22:05:22 I probably rely too much on completion, but then my spell cases a few errors if I don't 22:05:45 s/spell cases/spelling causes 22:06:04 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:06:14 fuzzy completion is great for when you aren't sure how it's called 22:07:34 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:08:01 like uppercase :) 22:08:11 -!- kerx__ is now known as kerx 22:08:14 I'm really feeling the lack of refactoring tools :( 22:08:39 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:59 just keep on it, and the feeling will go into remission 22:09:00 I've only written 67 lines of code and I've would have used a refactoring tool at least 3-5 times already, maybe even a few more times :( 22:09:26 stassats, I don't think that is a good thing that it goes into remission 22:09:52 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:10:02 Lisp is nice, but the tool support isn't quite what other languages have AND with my current knowledge of Lisp, I don't think the language makes up for it entirely 22:10:12 *francogrex* wonders how did Saturnation capitalize "lack" ? 22:10:19 -!- churib [~churib@95.156.194.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:22 that's because you're using lispworks, and not slime! 22:10:24 -!- Taggnostr3 [~x@dyn57-215.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Switching to single-player mode.] 22:10:26 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 22:11:49 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.86.154] has quit [Quit: testing something] 22:12:56 Is it just me who does not enjoy the loop macro? 22:12:59 and in lisp it's not very easy to programmatically understand the code in general 22:13:06 jsoft: yes 22:13:28 jsoft: no 22:14:08 it's not made for enjoyment, it's made to be used for writing concise iteration code 22:14:24 And it does a bad job at that 22:14:56 <_3b> jsoft: it is common to dislike LOOP, but not universal 22:15:00 what a horrible insinuation! 22:15:01 drdo enjoys ITERATE 22:15:14 <_3b> jsoft: see iterate,reiterate,loopless, etc 22:15:28 I don't particularly enjoy iterate 22:15:32 But it is an improvement over loop 22:16:00 stassats, I understand the difficulty in refactoring in dynamic languages and I only what the simple ones where that shouldn't be a problem, but I should top complaining and get back to work :) 22:16:02 *_3b* actually sort of likes the non-lispyness of loop sometimes, but wishes it were more powerful and extensible 22:16:14 loop has a huge problem 22:16:21 <_3b> Saturnation: or switch to emacs and try redshank? 22:16:26 yeah 22:16:30 it's only concise and understandable for very simple loops 22:16:44 but it's less concise than other ways 22:16:45 Yeah thats what I a finding. 22:16:46 drdo: I'm not sure iterate is a complete improvement over loop, it improves only some aspects and falls short of others in my view 22:16:49 trying to minimize my learning curve at the moment though 22:17:21 i don't like loop either 22:17:23 and for anything past very modest complexity, loop is horrible 22:18:14 so, don't write anything complex in it, split it 22:18:14 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:27 there are some cases where loop fits very well 22:18:41 but the planets have to align 22:18:58 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:08 it's not a magic tool which will sweep complexities under the carpet at no cost 22:19:19 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:19:25 stassats: of course not 22:19:28 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 22:19:42 you can embed APL, i guess 22:19:47 but i find myself having to write a lot of boilerplate for some loops because LOOP doesn't support some minor detail i need 22:19:56 it's looks quite concise for very complex things 22:20:46 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:21:51 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:22:18 is it common to copy and paste in Lisp, changing just an atom or 2 in the resultant pasted code? 22:22:54 ..I can't say it is? 22:22:58 <_3b> if you are doing that too much, a macro (or macrolet)might help 22:22:59 i use paredit movement commands extensively 22:23:02 that's what macros and functions are for. :) 22:23:13 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.165] has joined #lisp 22:23:19 <_3b> (or function if possible) 22:23:39 oh, i thought you were still talking about refactoring 22:23:49 _3b, copying and pasting function invocations and changing a couple of parameters :) 22:24:06 <_3b> hard to say what is wrong without context 22:24:17 is it me or are some of the questions tonight are even weirder than the questions i usually ask? 22:24:21 stassats, I am talking about this because of the lack of refactoring tools :) 22:24:36 <_3b> possibly you want a loop/map over a few sets of args, or a macro, or just better abstractions somewhere 22:25:21 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:26:10 ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:28:53 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.115.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:57 Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:31:31 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-209-70.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 22:31:59 _3b, yeah, I think my lack of experience with Lisp is showing :) 22:32:08 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:46 What are refactoring tools? 22:33:01 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-76-146.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:33:20 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:33:24 -!- ckelly [~ckelly@microgravity.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:34:06 <_3b> tools for 'refactoring' code, stuff like replacing a block of code with a new function and a call to that function 22:34:50 MoALTz [~no@92.18.86.154] has joined #lisp 22:36:18 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:37:04 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:38:37 Saturnation: now you have a project to attack when you get more proficient with lisp, a refactoring tool! 22:39:33 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:41 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:48 ch-image is busted, argh 22:43:58 *_3b* wonders why this markdown thing turns the #\- in "-1" into an – but leaves it alone in "foo-bar" or "-" 22:43:58 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:44:01 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:44:29 xvilka [~xvilka@ip-79-111-184-254.bb.netbynet.ru] has joined #lisp 22:45:25 hi! anyone have small example of simplest server, which listen one port, and waiting for some data in input from that port? simplest implementation. 22:45:43 <_3b> i think iolib comes with some simple server examples 22:45:48 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 22:45:57 usocket does too 22:46:00 <_3b> (using iolib of course, don't know of any using specific implementations directly) 22:47:09 thx! it's need only for example - this is my first network server app 22:47:58 xvilka: grab usocket or iolib and check out their respective examples 22:49:01 thx! i'm prefer iolib, bcoz it's from fe[nl]ix :) 22:49:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:49:50 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955DD49.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:52 even found this: http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~psilord/blog/data/iolib-tutorial/tutorial.html 22:50:21 <_3b> yeah, i think that is the examples included with iolib 22:50:42 i prefer usocket because it's simpler 22:51:16 i use usocket as well 22:54:37 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:22 hm. looks smaller 22:55:30 -!- zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:56:13 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:56:46 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:57:42 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-150-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:48 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.86.154] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:01:05 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:02:32 are there any examples for usocket? 23:05:01 -!- emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-169451.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:05:57 on the webpage 23:06:46 You even have socket-server 23:06:50 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:52 emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-166449.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:07:34 Good morning everyone! 23:07:45 good night mr beach 23:08:01 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA31CC8.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:08:38 drdo: can found on web page - only api reference 23:08:53 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.119.57] has joined #lisp 23:09:17 hi beach 23:09:32 xvilka: If you want a server, you have socket-server 23:10:12 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 23:10:31 yo beach 23:10:43 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.66.112] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:12:08 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:03 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:15:19 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 23:15:39 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:15:55 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 23:16:51 -!- adobriyan [~ad@vulture2-nat-42.telecom.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:54 -!- rolando [~user@26.179.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has left #lisp 23:17:56 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:24 sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:14 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e8ee.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:24:33 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 23:27:36 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-100.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 23:28:54 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:30:22 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 23:30:28 slyrus! 23:30:38 ch-image is broken 23:30:43 argh... 23:31:13 The variable +PHOTOMETRIC-INTERPRETATION-PALETTE-COLOR+ is unbound. 23:31:38 that's a retrospectiff bug, which is now fixed 23:31:48 and pushed 23:31:58 are you pulling from git.cyrusharmon.org or github? 23:32:23 oh, was pulling from cyrusharmon. what's the github url? 23:32:32 github.com/slyrus/retrospectiff, prolly 23:32:42 https://github.com/slyrus/retrospectiff 23:32:43 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: pa, bye] 23:33:19 the bad news is it was broken, the good news is that indexed TIFFs and bitmap TIFFs are now supported 23:33:21 and it's fixed 23:33:51 slyrus: the readme on github for opticl is quite nice :) 23:34:03 perhaps Bryan Green will send a patch for CCITT.4 or .6 or whatever it is 23:34:08 yay 23:34:16 harmony once more 23:34:24 heh! 23:35:33 thanks mon_key, there's some more at: http://www.cyrusharmon.org/static/opticl-examples/opticl-examples.xhtml 23:35:46 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:55 Xach: opticl is probably about ready for quicklisp 23:35:57 anybody around with topic fixing powers? 23:36:10 I'd like usocket 0.5.0 added to the new software section. 23:36:17 *Xach* eyes antifuchs 23:36:18 beach: you should take a look at the API one of these days soon 23:36:57 parcs_ [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:03 he's probably basking in the temescal sun, enjoying the bay area weather 23:37:06 Xach: have your eyes been verbed? 23:37:13 that's right - it's really sunny out (: 23:37:39 -!- antifuchs changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: usocket 0.5.0, ABCL 0.25, SBCL 1.0.46, mega1 p0wns hordes of C++ and Java programmers using his mad AI skillz (http://ai-contest.com/), Bordeaux-Threads 0.8.0 23:37:40 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 23:37:41 -!- emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-166449.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:37:41 there! 23:37:45 -!- antifuchs has set mode -o antifuchs 23:37:47 thanks! 23:37:49 emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-171982.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:37:54 slyrus: no gif support in opticl? 23:37:55 slyrus: The Opticl API? 23:38:05 beach: yes 23:38:11 ok. night. 23:38:16 xach: do people still use those? 23:38:22 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-26-160.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:38:24 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:38:35 hee hee 23:38:41 *Xach* uses them to animate 23:38:44 slyrus: png is the replacement which supports transparency, right? 23:38:51 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:38:52 -!- rononovski_ [~rononovsk@bzq-79-177-185-192.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:39:03 I prefer png and opticl supports png 23:39:08 ah. 23:39:10 thanks. 23:39:11 it would probably take about 20 minutes to add gif support though 23:39:22 thanks to quicklisp and all 23:39:39 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:57 -!- gz` [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 23:40:08 slyrus: yes the ../opticl-examples.xhtml were nice too (but these look rather "borrowed")) 23:40:20 borrowed? 23:40:39 I seem to recall maybe ch-image having similar? 23:40:42 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:56 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-116-17.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:40:56 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 23:41:02 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:41:02 -!- gz_ is now known as gz 23:41:03 heh. the circles and the salad, yes 23:41:12 the truck is an opticl exclusive 23:41:21 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 23:41:47 ? maybe i am in timewarp... I feel like i've seen that truck before... 23:41:56 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:56 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:43:08 url? 23:43:22 sabalaba [~sabalaba@173-10-44-57-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:43:31 xach: http://www.cyrusharmon.org/static/opticl-examples/opticl-examples.xhtml 23:43:53 I'm digging through my notes now... 23:45:15 slyrus: how long has opticl been in devel maybe i am remembering an earlier reference to these images? 23:45:33 beginning of february 23:45:53 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:46:35 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:46:50 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-209-70.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:47:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-219-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:48 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-219-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:49:28 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 23:49:47 -!- johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:49:52 johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 23:49:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-219-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:06 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:52:12 rononovski_ [~rononovsk@109.67.184.139] has joined #lisp 23:53:30 -!- emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-171982.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:55:36 fisted_ [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has joined #lisp 23:56:02 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:20 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:31 davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:35 slyrus: Can't find anything other than notes from circa 2010-11-21 was last I looked at ch-image... 23:58:05 do you love in new mexico? 23:58:06 -!- fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:58:06 live 23:58:19 'cuz the truck does 23:58:41 :) I was in NM just after that... So maybe I am having euphoric recall 23:58:50 heh 23:58:52 taos? 23:59:09 there are probably a bunch of trucks like that in NM 23:59:22 just outside of Taos - ojo caliente 23:59:26 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp