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[~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:29:11 myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 02:30:28 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:31:22 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:51 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:33:51 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:35:06 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 02:40:36 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:43:02 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:44:33 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d049c1d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:16 -!- myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:34 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@204.14.152.118] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:52:45 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@2402:1800:1:2801:226:4aff:fe09:eee2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:55:00 waxrose [~waxrose@cpe-24-162-115-160.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:55:01 gko [~gko@111.83.34.88] has joined #lisp 02:55:30 -!- gko [~gko@111.83.34.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:35 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:58:09 Does anyone have a preference for either McCLIM or cl-gtk2? 02:58:58 -!- basho___ [~basho__@p4FDA6D4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:00 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:01:50 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:02:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:03:47 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:51 I prefer McCLIM. But that's because I've never used cl-gtk2. :-) 03:05:10 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has quit [Quit: superflit] 03:05:27 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.113.189] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:05:33 Quadrescence: don't forget common-qt 03:05:38 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 03:05:42 That too 03:05:48 which will have a very nice working windows port soon! 03:05:55 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:19 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-153-27.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:20 I guess go with common-qt if you need nice interop on many platforms, and you don't care about neat command-loopy stuff too much 03:06:26 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:06:26 only $299.95 as a part of the new Web 3.0 package from antifuchs & affiliates 03:06:41 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:06:41 it's franz inc now, and we don't ship common-qt (: 03:06:46 ;) 03:06:51 wish we did! 03:06:56 would probably make my job easier (; 03:07:22 rtoym: This is pretty much the funniest picture on the internet http://common-lisp.net/~rtoy/climaxima/maxima-repl-5.png 03:07:56 you haven't seen the cello screenshots, I take it? 03:07:59 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 03:08:05 I guess not. 03:08:16 well. 03:08:21 rootlocus [~rootlocus@research-remote.nicta.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:08:39 oh wow, he cleaned them up pretty well 03:08:46 let me see if I can find the older ones (: 03:08:50 they were pretty hilarious 03:09:02 Quadrescence: I doubt that's the funniest. :-) There are better screenshots. I wish I were smarter and knew more about mcclim so I could make a better mcclim/maxima interface. 03:09:36 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:10:02 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:10:02 I don't think I've ever written a GUI before in my entire lifetime of coding. Thinking about trying it out with lisp. Maybe it won't be as bad as what I've seen in C++ 03:11:44 krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has joined #lisp 03:11:44 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442493.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:12:00 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:12:01 The only gui I've ever written used STk. It was fairly easy and the classes made it pretty nice. I don't think STk is supported anymore. 03:12:35 (STk was a scheme with a nice interface to Tk.) 03:12:46 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:13:24 Quad: As always, I recommend html5 :) 03:14:45 Sage's web GUI has impressed me with respect to using the browser as a GUI. 03:25:09 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:16 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633488.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:28:09 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 03:30:20 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:32:11 -!- mau_ [~mau@72.22.178.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:32:17 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:32:23 -!- davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:33:31 mau_ [~mau@72.22.178.150] has joined #lisp 03:36:00 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:37:29 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.221.198] has joined #lisp 03:37:46 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d049c1d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? 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05:07:08 Would defpackage / in-package / use in my file confuse the remote different? 05:08:15 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:17 jsnikeris [~user@c-68-63-80-222.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:31 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:13:03 newbie here...I'm trying to use a use functions from a package without having to specify a prefix. however, it's not working as I'd expect...paste to follow... 05:15:27 http://paste.lisp.org/display/120345 05:15:33 jsnikeris: You have to (use-package "PACKAGE"). Or modify the defpackage to add :use "PACKAGE". 05:16:02 hmm, then what does shadowing-import-from do? 05:16:19 clhs shadowing-import-from 05:16:25 minion: Where are you? 05:16:28 Dang. 05:17:12 jsnikeris: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpkg.htm describes what it means. 05:17:54 how does it differ from use? 05:18:25 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:30 oh 05:18:43 I think I have to specify which symbols I want imported 05:19:18 So, either (:use #:cl #:cl-who) or (:import-from :cl-who ) 05:19:46 which is considered better style? 05:20:04 or is importing things bad style to begin with? 05:20:41 Not sure which is better style. I normally just live with the prefixes. 05:21:26 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:22:04 OK, thanks for your help 05:23:17 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:26:29 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:26:30 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:46 I prefer to import when it is a library (1) that is intended to be imported, like closer2mop, (2) that's a utility library like alexandria/anaphora, or (3) when there is little chance that the imported package will ever need to be removed from a project's dependencies 05:26:47 jsnikeris: using :use is a lot of commitment, because you are accepting any future symbols that the author of the package might add, and that may clash with your own. 05:27:30 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-34-31.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:29:15 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yubthqrfwkjcjamj] has joined #lisp 05:29:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:30:07 gko [~gko@111.83.34.88] has joined #lisp 05:30:48 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:31:30 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:31:34 so yeah, Ive got foo.lisp and bar.lisp. In foo.lisp I cant seem to see things defined in bar.lisp. In this case I cant call (make-instance 'foo-class) 05:31:41 Says undefined class foo-class. 05:31:56 I know it will be something blatantly basic, but yeah. 05:32:37 Actually more to the point, I cant call (make-instance 'foo-class) from within a function in foo.lisp. 05:33:06 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:36:01 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 05:36:30 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:36:38 -!- Liera [~user@123.20.52.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:38:06 rootlocus [~rootlocus@research-remote.nicta.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:38:45 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 05:42:47 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-243.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:44:06 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:41 evening y'all 05:45:16 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 05:45:58 MoALTz [~no@92.8.155.53] has joined #lisp 05:47:29 -!- mau_ [~mau@72.22.178.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:48:20 nowhereman [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-77-75.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:48:20 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.66.191.25] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 05:48:35 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-69-115.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:48:39 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.8.155.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:50:50 How do I access a class I defined in another file from within a function? 05:51:54 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@research-remote.nicta.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:55:25 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:55:52 jsoft: by its name. 05:56:07 e.g. (make-instance 'my-class ...) 05:56:59 Argh 05:57:03 *sigh* 05:57:05 Typo. 05:57:09 Ah. 05:57:09 Thats why it wasnt working. 05:57:10 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:14 *jsoft* slaps self 05:58:43 jsoft: http://twitter.com/#!/peterseibel/status/23033017392 05:59:02 With all respect--we've all been there. 05:59:59 Hah :D 06:00:31 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:02:24 ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 06:04:23 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:31 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:09:06 -!- setmeaway2 [jnoos43@118.45.149.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:09:13 gigamonkey: Oh no, I forgot this law. right now I'm debugging something whose reproducability is apparently dependent on time of day. 06:09:14 rootlocus [~rootlocus@240218000001280102264afffe09eee2.ptr-ipv6.nicta.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:33 so obviously, it'll be something /really/ stupid. 06:09:35 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.204] has joined #lisp 06:09:46 hey gigamonkey: any chance you'll get to https://github.com/gigamonkey/monkeylib-binary-data/pull/2 soon? 06:10:38 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:04 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.194.208] has joined #lisp 06:13:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:13:33 pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@77.109.101.132] has joined #lisp 06:15:06 nostoi [~nostoi@233.Red-79-154-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:35 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:17:08 madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:26 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:19:06 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-guskulenbkwfehqb] has joined #lisp 06:19:06 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-guskulenbkwfehqb] has quit [Changing host] 06:19:06 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:19:13 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:31 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:21:39 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 06:24:13 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:19 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.194.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:24:26 -!- pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has left #lisp 06:25:01 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:26:17 -!- sbahra_ [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra_] 06:26:41 slyrus: I'll try. 06:26:47 thanks 06:27:16 Goodnight folks. I'm out. 06:27:16 krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has joined #lisp 06:27:21 -!- krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:27:34 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:03 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:33:08 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:34:56 Liera [~user@123.20.60.127] has joined #lisp 06:35:35 dalkvist [~cairdazar@h-2-115.A322.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 06:36:17 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 06:36:52 -!- dalkvist [~cairdazar@h-2-115.A322.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Client Quit] 06:37:12 see ya gigamonkey 06:41:44 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:41:55 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA31144.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:49:13 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-86-70.cpe.netcabo.pt] has 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closed the connection] 07:03:22 Areil [~Areil@123.20.60.127] has joined #lisp 07:04:01 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@233.Red-79-154-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:04:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:04:50 -!- jesusabdullah is now known as check 07:05:04 -!- check is now known as DrJeuss 07:12:46 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 07:14:18 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:56 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:17:15 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:17:15 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:17:15 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:18:58 -!- DrJeuss is now known as jesusabdullah 07:19:53 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:26:10 mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-ortjhwgkvdrhahid] has joined #lisp 07:27:29 -!- awesome-o [~anonymous@76.14.66.154] has quit [Quit: awesome-o] 07:28:56 -!- spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:00 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:29:45 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 07:30:11 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:41 peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 07:30:56 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@240218000001280102264afffe09eee2.ptr-ipv6.nicta.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:33:17 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 07:33:43 -!- tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:37:51 Yay :D 07:37:54 Great success 07:38:05 made my first gui gizmo and first class 07:38:12 Makes a bar graph 07:38:26 Next for an actual graph 07:43:09 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:44:47 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 07:44:58 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 07:46:14 MoALTz_ [~no@92.8.155.53] has joined #lisp 07:46:35 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:47:57 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.155.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:49:48 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:17 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:50:32 good morning 07:52:05 Morning 07:53:06 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:54:12 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003f2d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:11 splittist [~splittist@136-132.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:57:39 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 07:59:51 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:00:50 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 08:01:46 hi 08:02:39 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:04:49 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:04:55 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 08:06:22 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:09:29 pjb: hi 08:12:50 fusss [~fusss@120.159.53.22] has joined #lisp 08:14:25 I want to be able to evaluate a Lisp form *after* every C-M-x (slime-eval-defun); that's right, for every form I sent to the lisp, I want to also evaluate another form. Sorta like :after method for S-E-D. How? 08:14:50 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:15:59 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.81] has joined #lisp 08:16:06 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.81] has quit [Changing host] 08:16:06 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 08:19:22 pjb: please help, I'm trying to make my serialization works :) http://paste.lisp.org/display/120257#6 08:20:08 pjb: with this data file http://paste.lisp.org/display/120257#7 08:20:56 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:42 Posterdati: is there any reason you're not using cl-store? 08:21:51 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 08:21:53 pjb: when I call read-netlist I've got this error: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120257#8 08:22:07 fusss: I need the file to be in a human readable form 08:22:46 aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:23:01 fusss: is it possible with cl-store? 08:23:32 Posterdati: there was something that serialized to xml .. hold on 08:23:42 fusss: thanks 08:27:31 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:27:44 Posterdati: might be a bit overkill, but cl-perec 08:27:58 -!- euangelion [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:28:01 fusss: I found cl-xmls on debian :) 08:28:26 fusss: XML Simple Parser for Common Lisp 08:28:44 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:28:44 Posterdati: for XML work stick to CXML 08:28:54 xml is one of those all or nothing solutions 08:29:02 ok 08:29:03 s/solutions/problems/ 08:29:11 http://cliki.net/database and abundance of options 08:29:43 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:57 cl-store is like a Lispy sqlite3; in the sense that it's compact and binary portable. I use to move application state from machine to machine. sorta like a portable image dump 08:30:48 ok, but I need the file to be human readable 08:30:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-31.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:31:53 Yay :D 08:32:01 Got a font happening on my gui thing 08:32:04 lispbuilder-sdl ftw 08:32:09 *jsoft* is impressed 08:32:27 Posterdati: if all you're serializing are strings, integers and lists; cl-json will do it 08:32:50 Rather suprised how damn simple this lispbuilder-sdl thing is 08:33:01 jsoft: yeah, I too have a half-assed "lisp desktop" in lispbuilder :-) 08:33:08 fusss: yes 08:33:14 fusss: :S 08:33:37 fusss: I thought it was going to be an epic mission to do any sort of drawing/window stuff in lisp 08:33:53 fusss: thanks 08:34:17 I want to make a "paper-zombies" type game eventually 08:34:29 But first a wee graphing library 08:34:31 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:34:43 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:11 jsoft: layout management is the fun part. Try to do a "draw window" sort of a thing. Click, drag, release to draw a window. I sent a bug report to Lispbuilder because it doesn't support the latest SDL extensions to implement true cross-platform GUI 08:37:18 jsoft: the day lispbuilder-sdl moves to 1.3 and we get portable TextInput is the day Lisp can get a true, portable GUI toolkit, a la smalltalk http://code.google.com/p/lispbuilder/issues/detail?id=18 08:37:59 TextInput? 08:38:39 jsoft: yes, SDL doesn't do keyboard input for actual text that well. No input buffers, only rudimentary key input for navigation/control 08:38:46 Ahh seen 08:38:49 i.e. you really can't write a full-screen text editor in SDL 08:39:53 jsoft: I even have an embryonic attempt at CLX in lispbuilder-sdl; just waiting for textinput 08:41:07 fusss: why can't you write a full-screen text editor in SDL? Is it the full-screen thing that is the problem? 08:41:11 mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 08:41:25 So with TextInput in lispbuilder, would that mean you get just a stdin type of ability? Where one must know which 'text box' or text area a user is typing into? 08:41:55 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:41:58 splittist: it's the text input thing that's difficult. SDL sends you raw keyboard scan-codes, which is not portable 08:41:59 woudshoo` [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:32 -!- dangN_ [~max@p5790F511.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:43:15 fusss: Hmm. Which bits are not portable? You can get unicode chars, and aren't the modifiers portable? 08:43:52 *splittist* goes to read about TextInput 08:44:10 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:44:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:44:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 08:44:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:45:08 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:36 jsoft: you need to track which "widget" has input yourself, weather navigating widgets by mouse or keyboard. SDL is not a GUI toolkit. 08:46:59 Ahh yeah thought so. 08:47:03 That is good though 08:47:38 Well I feel I have been productive this evening :) 08:48:08 yep. I had fun doing bounding-boxes & simple collision detection 08:48:13 frvallee [~chatzilla@magique.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:48:23 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 08:48:26 damg [~damg@p54AD9A07.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:59 yeah ive been doing some trajectory code and it will be fun to work add collision detection and see progress in a graphical way :) 08:49:10 fusss: cl-store has got an xml backend too :) 08:49:24 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:49:57 Posterdati: well, there ya go 08:50:14 -!- lanthan [~ze@80.64.176.30] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:51:34 fusss: thanks 08:52:02 Posterdati: cl-store is one of the libraries I violently vouch for. I have it built into all my images and use it as a scratch to hold intermediate steps in large, multi-stage computations (I do data clean up for pre-warehousing) 08:52:53 is it possible to make the and type specifier not to evaluate the rest of arguments if the first argument evaluates to nil? e.g. (and sequence (satisfies sequence-not-null-p)) whereby sequence-not-null-p signals if X is not a sequence. 08:53:34 fusss: so it is trusty then 08:54:56 Posterdati: ~2GB worth of data was my max in a single store. do (null (cl-store:store ..)) for big ones ;-) I once sat through a gig worth of data getting printed 08:55:28 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 08:55:33 I bet that was exciting. Did you miss any of it? 08:55:36 Dont blink 08:57:14 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-78-233.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:57:21 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:58:39 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-29-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:58:44 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 09:00:06 fusss: interesting! I'm going to use Lisp for a large database project, a database base on mysql and web interface 09:00:52 fusss: is it worth to use Lisp to handle db interface? 09:01:23 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:01:32 Posterdati: ask someone else; i've only used lisp in the last 10 years 09:01:51 fusss: but lol 09:02:01 fusss: 10 years is a very long time 09:02:12 fusss: so you have to know! 09:02:43 Yes, db work with cl is painless. But I use postgres + postmodern 09:03:07 fusss: I hope my project wouldn't become postmortem 09:03:19 lol. 09:03:24 i have done mysql worth lisp for a year; most of my tears are well chronicled in this chan's logs 09:03:34 lol 09:04:08 is mysql a pain? 09:04:55 no, most toys are not painful 09:05:03 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:07:33 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:06 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:13:25 later all 09:13:27 -!- fusss [~fusss@120.159.53.22] has left #lisp 09:13:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:18:34 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 09:18:59 it looks like sbcl proceeds evaluating the satisfies call in (typep 2 (and sequence (satisfies pred))), but works fine with e.g. vector. Is there anything special about the sequence type? 09:20:43 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:26 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:57 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 09:27:21 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:38 kephas [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-72-116.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:28:46 -!- nowhereman [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-77-75.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:12 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:33:46 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:07 mcguitan83 [~user@negroni.enst.fr] has joined #lisp 09:36:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:39:36 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 09:41:35 nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-71-155.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:42:19 -!- kephas [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-72-116.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:42:47 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:43:07 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:46:04 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:47:46 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 09:52:03 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:52:03 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 09:52:03 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:53:03 -!- benny [~benny@i577A205E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:53:10 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:56:50 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 09:56:53 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:57:39 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:01:10 fantazo__ [~fantazo@178-191-161-193.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 10:03:05 basho__ [~basho__@p4FDA6D4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:43 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-239-65.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:08:24 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 10:09:13 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 10:11:30 greaver [~greaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 10:14:31 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-140-111.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 10:14:49 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:57 hi 10:16:10 please I need help serializing data in xml using cl-store... 10:17:46 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:19:05 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:19:31 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:19:49 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:20:55 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 10:27:55 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 10:28:02 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:29:01 -!- The_Fellow1 [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:30:33 -!- gko [~gko@111.83.34.88] has quit [] 10:31:07 Posterdati: first serialize the objects to sexps as explained. Then transform the sexp into an equivalent xml tree. Then use a xml library to generate the xml text. 10:31:43 I don't condone xml. This is lisp, we use sexps! 10:32:00 pjb: I found this http://compgroups.net/comp.lang.lisp/-common-lisp-printing-and-reading-CLOS-objects-usably 10:32:24 pjb I lost your sexp post :( 10:32:56 pjb: with this data file http://paste.lisp.org/display/120257#7 10:33:24 pjb: please help, I'm trying to make my serialization works :) http://paste.lisp.org/display/120257#6 10:33:40 pjb: when I call read-netlist I've got this error: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120257#8 10:34:03 Posterdati: where can pjb send his bill? 10:34:15 splittist: to Xach 10:34:17 :) lol 10:35:20 pjb: I tested cl-store and it's working ok, but no human readable file :( 10:35:45 Posterdati: I already said, when you have a list l = (NODE :NAME "GND" :TYPE "REFERENCE"), you can make the instance with (apply (function make-instance) l) 10:35:59 Posterdati: so, when you have a list of such lists, how do you do to get a list of instances? 10:36:25 map? 10:36:36 For example. Or just mapcar. 10:36:45 ok 10:36:52 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:36:56 so 10:37:09 So, I hope you're able to use map or mapcar. 10:37:20 pjb: not very well 10:37:47 Then I would advise reading this book: Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation http://www-cgi.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/dst/www/LispBook/index.html http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 10:37:48 (mapcar #'reading-function (read in)) 10:37:56 Yes, that's good. 10:38:05 ok 10:38:15 (mapcar (lambda (l) (apply (function make-instance) l)) (read in)) 10:38:28 pjb: yes, I understood 10:38:41 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:00 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:40:57 pjb: thanks 10:41:20 I'll post the whole thing for you later :) 10:49:07 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 10:50:02 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 10:50:26 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:51:24 silenius [~silenus@p5DDBB965.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:06 pjb: works for reading! 10:53:28 pjb: now I'm trying to do a write function :) 10:53:42 pjb: using sexp 10:55:12 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 11:01:19 -!- waxrose [~waxrose@cpe-24-162-115-160.hot.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 11:02:37 fgump [~gump@vpn2-229.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:02:51 alama [~alama@a79-169-86-70.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 11:02:55 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:56 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 11:02:58 :D 11:03:30 -!- pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@77.109.101.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:03:41 top 11:04:05 hi 11:04:37 Hey :) 11:06:33 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:07:31 tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:07:56 -!- fgump [~gump@vpn2-229.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:16 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:09:32 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:10:25 -!- flow3r [~flow3r@61.111.10.20] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:16 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:11:43 Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:16:28 pjb: (mapcar (lambda (record) 11:16:28 (list (type-of record) :name (element-name record))) *netlist*) 11:16:34 pjb: to write 11:18:53 You should take #lisp globally. I'm not always in front of my irc window. 11:19:09 Posterdati: you should read the book pjb linked you. 11:21:11 Otherwise, it's correct (the code you give will do something), but check again http://paste.lisp.org/display/120323 11:25:11 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 11:25:30 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 11:25:54 pjb: my code lacks about not assigned slots in a object 11:26:10 -!- euphidime [u178@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mdvefrywkmqopqto] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:26:51 -!- jna [u473@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qsgcuhwvhbdjfvjb] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:27:17 Posterdati: perhaps the class record has no "type" or "name" slot 11:28:36 As if you wrote (name-of-husband my-bicycle) 11:29:05 (unless your bicycle object is married to some guy, of course) 11:31:54 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:36:30 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:37:59 -!- rme [rme@clozure-CEC398A4.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 11:38:00 -!- rme [~rme@pool-68-238-4-125.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 11:39:08 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 11:43:31 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:46:07 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-86-70.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 11:46:27 jna [u473@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eajivrklkqiabprg] has joined #lisp 11:46:28 -!- jna [u473@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eajivrklkqiabprg] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:46:46 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:27 jna [u473@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-shxhqwpjljpqvjvv] has joined #lisp 11:52:27 -!- jna [u473@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-shxhqwpjljpqvjvv] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:52:28 euphidime [u178@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ywwlkxhurbsiswtr] has joined #lisp 11:53:26 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:54:17 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:58:49 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 11:59:49 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:00:35 jna [u473@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jwtfkccucjvgptog] has joined #lisp 12:00:36 -!- jna [u473@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jwtfkccucjvgptog] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:02:39 How can I convert a built in function like, say 1+, to a generic function so that I could extend it with defmethod for other types? 12:03:53 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 12:04:06 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:04:11 Have a look at SHADOW 12:04:31 thx 12:05:21 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:05:41 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:06:15 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined 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[~astoon@109.188.212.35] has joined #lisp 13:46:08 -!- ramkrsna_ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-iopkqygonwpwpzdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:48:47 ghast [~user@host52.190-31-12.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 13:48:48 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.215.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:54 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:07 gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.215.182] has joined #lisp 13:49:19 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.212.35] has quit [Client Quit] 13:52:29 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yubthqrfwkjcjamj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:09 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:56:00 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:56:29 -!- greaver [~greaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:57:06 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:57:39 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:57:59 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:11 greaver [~greaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 13:58:54 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:59:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.177] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:00:02 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-221.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:02:41 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.66.191.25] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 14:04:21 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 14:04:46 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe508.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 14:04:55 I believe there was a way to do "parallel" assignment in Lisp, where the new values are first computed and only then assigned. Can anyone offer a hint as to what it was? 14:05:08 clhs psetq 14:05:11 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-88-52.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 14:05:12 psetf 14:06:04 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:17 thanks :> makes sense now that I think about it 14:06:32 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.146] has joined #lisp 14:08:08 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.215.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:09:57 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-164-195.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:10:44 _reid [~reid@pool-108-1-61-117.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:17 -!- kauwgom [~reid@static-173-53-193-121.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:15:14 don333 [~user@nut.man.poznan.pl] has joined #lisp 14:21:17 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-58-151.xnet.hr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:22:14 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:25:54 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-76-60.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 14:27:23 -!- alama [~alama@194.117.18.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:28:00 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:30:36 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-134-153.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:30:59 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:06 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:33:53 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 (make-array 10 :element-type 'simple-bit-vector) gives me an object which type-of says is a simple-vector, why? :\ 14:35:21 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:35:50 Landr: because there is no specialized representation for an array of bit vectors. 14:35:54 (in your implementation) 14:36:04 but the standard says it should! 14:36:08 Landr: Where? 14:36:27 Landr: do you want a bit vector, or an array of bit vectors? What you wrote would be for the latter. 14:36:38 i thought vectors were arrays? 14:36:47 -!- ghast is now known as zlex 14:36:47 I'm asking the questions here! 14:37:11 Landr: you're specifying the :ELEMENT-TYPE, i.e. the type of the element 14:37:12 *Xach* looks around for Good Cop 14:37:16 Landr: a rank-2 array and an array of array aren't the same thing. 14:37:18 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:37:19 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:37:24 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:30 I just want an array of a quintillion bits :< 14:37:39 Landr: then the element-type should be :bit 14:37:40 Landr: you probably wanted :element-type 'bit 14:37:41 err, 'bit 14:38:09 hmmm... that... makes sense? 14:38:27 ahh yes 14:38:33 i don't want an array of arrays! 14:38:43 or (make-sequence 'simple-bit-vector 10) 14:38:57 akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:05 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:39:06 thanks :] it works! 14:39:21 I bet it is not fun to print a quintillion-element array. 14:39:42 that's why i usually set *print-array* to nil 14:39:55 (when working with quintillion-element bit arrays) 14:39:57 it's only 111 petabytes 14:40:44 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:41:34 neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-153-203.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:43 *stassats* is afraid of the machine Landr got 14:42:32 it's only got 16 cores and a 10 meg pipe :< 14:42:54 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRhGPVYRsOY context) 14:43:11 it might be smarter to try and mmap that bitvector in. Should be faster than saving a core. 14:43:53 actually I just need a few million bits, I'm trying to get an eratosthenes sieve 14:43:55 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:54 what about using sparse array, or tree/array mix? 14:45:24 I never had/studied data structures 14:45:33 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-153-203.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:45:36 davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:47 I love how fast sbcl's bitvector operations are. 14:45:54 ah, I see 14:45:55 bit-vector is the way to go for the sieve 14:46:04 Was that pkhuong or froydnj? Thanks! 14:46:11 a zipped array, neat 14:46:27 Xach: froydnj. 14:47:20 I've been meaning to SSE them up for a few years now. I even had working, almost decent, code at some point. 14:48:46 "real life, hurting SBCL development for 10 years" 14:49:37 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 14:51:17 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:51:27 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:53:23 kephas [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-82-45.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:54:19 -!- nowhereman [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-50-208.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:54:54 -!- silenius [~silenus@p5DDBB965.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:47 -!- Davsebamse [~das@office.ipvision.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:58:38 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 15:00:24 rme [~rme@pool-68-238-4-125.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:22 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 2.1b2pre/20101206220131]] 15:03:40 mao_ [mao@lost.my.eye.rs] has joined #lisp 15:03:54 -!- mao_ [mao@lost.my.eye.rs] has left #lisp 15:06:06 -!- don333 [~user@nut.man.poznan.pl] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:06:53 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-88-52.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:08:25 tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:54 Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:10:56 Xach: pkhuong: I dunno, I think they were already word-at-a-time even before SBCL started. I don't recall having much to do with that part :) 15:11:35 Ancient CMUCLers, thank you! 15:11:36 oh, which reminds me, there's still FIND/POSITION/COUNT on bit vectors that could be improved. 15:11:56 alama [~alama@193.137.143.157] has joined #lisp 15:11:57 I think COUNT is actually decent 15:12:11 FIND and POSITION could definitely use some love 15:12:19 yup, count is good. 15:12:49 I may have been responsible for COUNT, though :) 15:14:27 in yet another case of best being the enemy of better, the main reason I haven't committed transforms for find and position is that I tried to support non-simple and non-default bounds. 15:15:06 *Xach* flashes a shiny toonie, mumbles something about making it worth your while 15:15:53 Please, Xach, this is a family channel 15:16:09 Xach: it might improve extremely long compilation times, actually... 15:16:10 Adams family ? 15:16:15 Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.249] has joined #lisp 15:16:26 pkhuong: ah yes, all the edge cases get tricky 15:18:23 magnificent! 15:18:38 there is such sweet joy in writing code for minutes and then having it work instantly 15:19:32 Rukowen [~Rukowen@222.253.92.224] has joined #lisp 15:20:21 For lisp development, I'm using slime/sbcl. I'm kinda curious, if I execute something through the REPL that I *know* will take awhile..say like 30-40m to process entirely, is there a good way in slime to spawn that off on its own process so I can continue work on other parts of the program while this bit is working? 15:20:44 beach` [~user@116.118.6.29] has joined #lisp 15:20:56 -!- beach [~user@116.118.6.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:06 TDT: You could do it in another thread with sb-thread:make-thread, perhaps. 15:21:37 I'll look up the documentaton for that - thanks Xach 15:22:14 TDT: how are the results produced? 15:22:27 I'm just stuffing them, currently, in a global variable. 15:22:47 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has left #lisp 15:23:12 in the meantime, I think you can get slime to spawn a new repl thread. 15:24:59 yeah, I was thinking about that too pkhuong. it's all the same project, but the parts are very discrete. I should really just cut this 536689 line list of snps, alleles, and subjects into chunks and read a subsample until I get this project finished, then toss it at the larger set....reading the file and storing it all into memory in a usable lookup is the longest part. 15:25:18 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-247.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:25:58 benny` [~benny@i577A3EBC.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:26:08 TDT: also, when I can, I try to develop and test on much reduced inputs, and load the current version in a separate process to work on the real data set when everything seems sane. 15:26:10 -!- benny` is now known as benny 15:26:12 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:27:04 Ah i see, so 2 processes for sbcl - one on the reduced set, and the ohter on the larger one. I could have the larger one churning on stuff that is solid, and the test-instance for developing and testing in. 15:27:29 That actually would make the msot sense...I have 2 cores..the machine is dog slow but at least I should be abel to run some of this stuff in parallel. 15:27:56 right develop and run smoke tests under slime/swank, and manually start a separate process from time to time. 15:29:04 -!- myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:06 that way you can C-c when something goes really wrong without losing your development image's state. Step 2 is loading a swank server on the large data set process as well ;) 15:30:14 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:30:18 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:32:40 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-88-52.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 15:33:09 What I should consider doing too is remote slime on a much faster machine 15:33:16 This machine is probably at least 10 years old 15:33:37 that too. 15:34:48 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 15:35:07 leo2007 [~leo@218.85.168.35] has joined #lisp 15:35:30 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:35:56 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-003-209.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:50 -!- Areil [~Areil@123.20.60.127] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:38:40 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:51 -!- Liera [~user@123.20.60.127] has quit [Quit: restart] 15:39:19 milkpost_ [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe508.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 15:39:23 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.254.208] has joined #lisp 15:39:41 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 15:39:45 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 15:41:47 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:41:49 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe508.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:43:20 I gotta learn slime better. Found out how to deal with these two instances of the repl, setting to default and all. Would be nice to find a way to tie a certain buffer to a particular repl instance (so non-default) 15:44:29 -!- greaver [~greaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:30 should be straightforward, there must be some kind of slime-buffer-connection buffer-local variable already 15:45:16 I'ms ure there is somewhere, I found the following document helpful in using multiple repls http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Multiple-connections.html#Multiple-connections -- dealing with the "default" mode right now 15:46:13 "Commands executed in other places, such as slime-mode source buffers, always use the default connection. Usually this is the most recently established connection, but this can be reassigned via the âconnection listâ buffer:" 15:46:25 -!- milkpost_ [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe508.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:49:29 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-205-233.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:49:45 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.189.132] has joined #lisp 15:50:12 It sometimes seems like Slime just spontaneously develops new functionality. (No offence Slime maintainers!) 15:50:40 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-205-233.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:42 slime 3.0 will be renamed to amoeba 15:51:10 greaver [~greaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 15:53:19 ooh. it's evolving. 15:55:01 TDT: That just means that you can choose default 15:55:01 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:47 SLIME evolved into GRIMER! 15:55:50 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has left #lisp 15:56:01 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:59:46 jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has joined #lisp 15:59:49 Does anyone know the default sbcl max heap size (through the dynamic-space-size arg)? Hit about 16% of memory, and sbcl decided to die without actually notifying me in slime. 16:00:47 btbngr [~Matt@188.28.249.165.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:01:26 Liera [~user@123.20.60.127] has joined #lisp 16:02:26 TDT: I think it's 512M. Look into the *inferior-lisp* buffer to see what happened. 16:04:10 Basically as it was reading from the file it just couldn't allocate more memory and hung. I checked the amount of free memory and it was fine froma systems standpoint. I only have 3gigs on this machine, but 16% isn't much, but is close to 512 (491 exactly), so I think you're right mega1. 16:04:57 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #lisp 16:05:47 TDT: 32 bit system? 16:09:42 Landr: http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=281e2b1cf42b5cfe339985a366535bc85a972b37&hb=a78d355f14d88a86e420a63e6d2116587b006975&f=common-lisp/arithmetic/primes.lisp 16:10:44 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:55 -!- mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-ortjhwgkvdrhahid] has left #lisp 16:11:51 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:11:55 pjb: thanks, but I already finished it :> 16:12:17 TDT: you could write your own REPL that would fork a thread for each evaluation, and implement a thread management user interface similar to bash. 16:12:39 Landr: indeed. lisp is too easy that it's faster to write the code than to search for a library. 16:13:12 TDT: so you could C-z an eval, and (bg) it. 16:13:30 Now of course, slime would need an upgrade. 16:13:44 also my code is neater and shorter... though probably not as efficient 16:14:28 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5B3274ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:15:01 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082A358.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:10 We'd need a macro (optimize-dirtily ...some-nice-neat-and-short-code...) --> ugly-big-but-fast-code 16:16:35 pjb: that's how ecl works 16:17:29 Not really. What I have in mind for optimize-dirtly is a kind of beyond sufficiently smart compiler. 16:17:30 Xach: Yeah it is 16:18:20 Sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:52 Areil [~Areil@123.20.60.127] has joined #lisp 16:20:44 hi 16:21:17 hello Posterdati 16:21:48 hi 16:21:54 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.227.168] has joined #lisp 16:22:06 -!- greaver [~greaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:11 pjb: I've got problem with sexp to class :) 16:23:34 pjb: I need to serialize class object with another class object 16:23:42 -!- damg [~damg@p54AD9A07.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:23:43 sorry within 16:23:48 pjb: (defmacro optimize-dirtly (&body body) (declare (ignore body)) 42) 16:23:54 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.189.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:23:59 there HAS to be a less resource-intensive method to figure out if a number is a divisor of another number, aside from using mod 16:24:22 rem? 16:25:38 not when he's asleep 16:25:46 Landr: are you still doing sieve of Eratosthenes? 16:25:47 isn't rem and mod the same? 16:25:51 yes 16:26:00 well, I have the sieve, that's not the problem 16:26:01 Landr: then you don't need mod or rem 16:26:11 the problem is going through the sieve and figuring out whether a prime is a factor of another number 16:26:19 mod and rem aren't the same 16:26:22 Landr: read the clhs on them 16:26:29 there are certain classes of divisors that you can check from decimal representation, but otherwise, mod it is 16:27:00 *_3b* thought the whole point of the sieve was to only look at the numbers that a given prime was a factor of (by just enumerating them directly) 16:27:21 Landr: so, you're doing a prime factorization? 16:27:26 yes 16:27:34 if so, they're indeed better ways than trial division 16:27:50 rem is? 16:28:10 Posterdati: the article you gave a reference yesterday tells it all. 16:28:11 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@222.253.92.224] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:32 Rukowen [~Rukowen@222.253.92.224] has joined #lisp 16:29:01 maybe I should find a better factorization algorithm 16:29:25 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:30:49 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110302185706]] 16:32:07 that's what i meant 16:34:30 hah awesome, --dynamic-space-size did the trick. now telling it to use up to 2 Gb. 16:34:48 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.177.203] has joined #lisp 16:35:19 TDT: check your kernel/user space split setting 16:35:44 Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.235] has joined #lisp 16:36:16 or you might get an unfunny surprise 16:36:40 That's a good point, if too much is reserved to the kernel the machine itself may freeze up. 16:37:32 TDT: actually, your image might spontaneously die 16:37:48 when it finds out that certain addresses are locked 16:38:00 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:38:10 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:42:55 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-243.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:56:41 -!- woudshoo` [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:01:09 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:36 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@222.253.92.224] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:01:37 ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 17:03:41 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-88-52.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:04:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:04:21 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:05:36 bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 17:06:08 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 17:06:30 hello, is there a continue statement for a lisp loop like in c++? i need to do something like this: (loop for e in x do (progn (if (condition) (continue)(process e)))) 17:07:40 bad_alloc: no 17:07:51 is there a way to emulate it? 17:08:09 tagbody/goto :) 17:08:15 oh male chicken. 17:08:20 rwiker [~rwiker@208.84-48-39.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:22 thanks dlowe 17:09:12 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:08 bad_alloc: you could do if/else too 17:10:27 in what way? 17:10:30 the loop keywords if/else 17:10:50 ah, so basically set a flag that inhibits the rest of the iteration? 17:11:28 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:11:32 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@208.84-48-39.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:11:34 (loop for e in x if (condition) do (process e) else if (other-condition) do (other-process e) ...) 17:12:00 I wish there was a way to specify the structure of &body elements in the lambda list. 17:12:13 huh. loop's IF has an anaphoric IT 17:12:19 the things you learn 17:12:20 deepfire: for macros, there is. 17:12:32 Use destructuring-bind in special cases. 17:12:34 dlowe: example? 17:12:48 alama: just ran across it in http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/06_af.htm 17:13:01 IT is bound to the result of the condition 17:13:02 bad_alloc: (loop ... do (block continue ... (return-from continue) ...)) 17:13:33 dlowe: only in when and unless 17:13:35 ... use iterate 17:13:39 oh 17:13:44 i misread 17:14:15 pjb, next wish: alternate cases for &body elements' structure -- for the case when you'd want to allow short-hands ala (let (a b c) ..) 17:14:18 krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:14:29 -!- krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has left #lisp 17:14:44 lichtblau: iter isn't ansi lisp as far as i know and i am required to use only the standard. 17:14:54 deepfire: don't be afraid of parsing. 17:15:28 pjb, well, there are documentation purposes for this as well 17:15:52 You may end up giving a bnf instead of a lambda-list... 17:15:53 i wish WHILE had anaphoric IT 17:15:54 bad_alloc: I see. Who invents such unhelpful requirements? 17:16:21 pjb, the implementation can be papered over, of course, but the opaqueness of the slime arglist hint can be depressing 17:16:22 bad_alloc: then it's easy. Just use the standard defmacro and implement iter (again!). 17:16:51 In a minor way, but still disheartening. 17:17:27 You could write an heuristic to analyse the body of macros, see how the arguments are used, and thus generate better arglist hints. 17:17:35 lichtblau: my highschool teacher. but i shouldn't complain, at least we use some lisp 17:17:59 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:17 bad_alloc: you know, this is the silliest constraint ever. 17:18:26 bad_alloc: Just use the standard defmacro and implement iter. 17:18:36 bad_alloc: you should tell him/her about QuickLisp! 17:19:21 pjb: how much work would that be. it's just a small asignment and i feel that extendig the language here for a simple contimnue wouls be quite an overkill 17:19:40 lichtblau: is quicklisp usuable yet? 17:19:47 bad_alloc: well for the simple continue, it's trivial. Don't you get my loop? 17:20:06 I'm shocked to hear about a school in .de using something other than UCSD Pascal. 17:20:14 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:20:28 pjb: somewhat (I'm not very experienced with macros) 17:21:07 lichtblau: in baden-württemberg it's relatively common, since teahcers are allowed to use any language they want 17:21:22 in theory intercal would be legal 17:21:39 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:13 if java is legal, then intercal is legal for sure 17:23:19 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 17:23:56 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:56 lichtblau: you mentioned quicklisp. has it become usable? i once experienced it as very buggy (messed up installs etc.) 17:27:14 bad_alloc: very usabl 17:27:16 *usable 17:27:23 bad_alloc: It's in beta, but I love it and haven't had any issues with it. 17:27:49 and given how well it works, I'll probably set a subscription donation when I get a job, too :) 17:27:54 who actually runs the main server? 17:28:04 Xach does 17:28:11 or rather, he hosts on amazon's s3 17:28:13 works better than asdf-install did for me :P 17:28:18 mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-69-181-1-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:02 superflit_ [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 17:29:11 AFAIK it leaves ASDF2's out-of-the-box configuration almost intact, which unfortunately means that ancient idiotic default locations for lisp libraries the user installed 10 years ago will still accidentally get loaded. But that's the only complaint I have. 17:29:40 -!- davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:10 yeah, once installed, you should weed out stuff like old clbuild/asdf-install/distribution-installed locations. after that, installing stuff is dead easy 17:30:21 heh yeah i had to nuke my old ~/.sbcl or whatnot 17:33:16 yeah, just reconfigure ASDF2 after that to include only the places you want to override QuickLisp 17:33:34 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-69-181-1-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 17:33:45 xan_ [~xan@116.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:35:06 *p_l|home* keeps his ~/projects directory there 17:36:43 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 17:37:17 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:37:59 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:06 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:45:11 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 17:46:47 I didn't make the decision to load existing systems, if present, lightly, and while I'm still not convinced it's the right way to go, it's caused fewer problems than I expected it might. 17:47:33 The scenario I wanted to avoid was something like: "I installed Quicklisp and now I can't load any of my projects, which worked just fine before!" 17:47:35 btbngr1 [~Matt@188.28.249.165.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:47:36 wedgeV [~me@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:04 So now the issue is: "I get this weird library error! Oh, it looks like it's loading from ~/.sbcl/site/clocc/ and not quicklisp." 17:48:11 -!- btbngr [~Matt@188.28.249.165.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:48:17 -!- btbngr1 is now known as btbngr 17:49:54 It think it would be cool to have it as an option at least. With clbuild1, keeping the config was an option, but a brutally clean registry the default. But it could be other way around. 17:49:56 Think (ql:add-to-init-file :recklessly-p t) 17:50:10 lichtblau: there's already (ql:use-only-quicklisp-systems), but I'm not sure it actually works. 17:50:19 My gripe is mostly that I don't know how to clean it out anymore. I've tried to do so for clbuild2, but it's harder than it was. 17:50:43 With ASDF1, you could clear out the central registry, and SBCL contribs were still functionals, because they had their own search function. 17:50:48 The easiest way I know is to prune asdf:*system-definition-serach-functions* 17:51:23 hmm, i should use that method for use-only-quicklisp-systems... 17:51:43 actually, there is an easier way... just clean out system source locations, add your own, then rebuild search path 17:51:44 In ASDF2, contribs go through the source registry, so one needs to be very careful when nuking the source registry. 17:52:01 Do they? 17:52:18 *lichtblau* is using (setf (asdf::source-registry) (remove-if-not #'looks-like-a-contrib-location (asdf::source-registry))) 17:52:26 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 17:53:12 and (setf asdf:*central-registry* (cons "...mine..." (remove-if-not #'looks-like-quicklisp asdf:*central-registry*))) 17:53:34 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 17:55:02 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.146] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:55:18 Xach: I think they do, yes. 17:56:07 Yeah, looks like it. 17:56:21 -!- xan_ [~xan@116.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:58:20 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-003-209.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:58:27 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:58:54 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:30 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:31 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:02:56 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:03:13 Saturnation [~Saturnati@pool-64-222-91-40.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:19 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-171-182.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:04:53 -!- fantazo__ [~fantazo@178-191-161-193.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:04:53 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.177.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:06:08 mattrepl [~mattrepl@204.14.152.118] has joined #lisp 18:07:04 Lispwork's unicode/ansi string stuff is giving me a headache :( 18:09:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 18:09:11 Saturnation: what's up? 18:10:03 Getting a Unicode error and I'm pretty sure I need to be handling it with a call to the right function, but I'm not sure what the right function is and where it is happening :) 18:10:33 "External format (:UNICODE :LITTLE-ENDIAN T :EOL-STYLE :CRLF) 18:10:33 produces characters of type SIMPLE-CHAR, which is not a subtype of 18:10:33 the specified element-type BASE-CHAR." 18:10:38 sorry 18:10:48 *Saturnation* thought that was all one line 18:11:14 HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-149-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:04 Sprayzor` [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:31 perhaps we could diagnose that with a bit more context 18:12:47 use paste.lisp.org for the code and stacktrace? 18:13:05 LW:SIMPLE-CHAR is generally not fun 18:14:23 -!- Sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:16:50 -!- Teeko [~Teeko@162.Red-88-22-219.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:16:53 xan_ [~xan@116.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:17:03 reading the manual helps sometimes too :) 18:17:24 *Saturnation* is just frustrated with his lack of knowledge when trying to do "simple" things in Lisp 18:17:38 Don't have enough Lisp smarts... yet... 18:17:48 hang in there :) 18:18:40 -!- gz` [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 18:19:28 *Saturnation* is hanging 18:19:59 still waiting for that big ah-ha moment 18:20:50 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:20:50 you'll be productive long before that...I think the a-has come later..and possibly keep coming once in a while into the future :) 18:21:38 *Saturnation* clearly remembers the ah-ha moment with Java 18:22:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-49-118.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 18:22:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-49-118.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 18:22:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:22:09 Saturnation: when do java and related languages give aha's? 18:22:39 none of c++ java python or tcl gave me such enlighting beatings as lisp 18:22:46 bad_alloc, When I finally got what the "." was all about, specifically what System.out meant 18:23:18 *Saturnation* 's definition of ah-ha is when the structure of the language makes sense, not necessarily that it is a good language :) 18:23:23 -!- xan_ [~xan@116.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:24:44 Hmm, is sb-int:sbcl-homedir-pathname exported from any non-private package? 18:25:24 *Xach* asks sbcl directly 18:25:26 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:26:05 Hello. Is there a default way of running sbcl without memory overcommitting? 18:26:20 schoppenhauer: no default way, no. 18:26:38 schoppenhauer: you need to set dynamic space size so that it will fit in 18:26:44 thanks to borked VM 18:26:51 (on linux) 18:27:04 p_l|home: can I do this without adding a commandline-argument? 18:27:37 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:49 hmm... wasn't it possible to build an image with preset arguments like that? 18:28:01 p_l|home: I would not have a problem to increase my swapspace-size. but it seems like no matter how much I give it it is never enough 18:28:36 schoppenhauer: initial dynamic space size is 8GB on 64bit machines 18:28:46 which is nothing compared to CCL's 0.5TB 18:29:11 p_l|home: so with an additional 8 Gig swapspace everything should be fine? 18:29:44 I'd rather use command line options 18:30:22 p_l|home: you're probably thinking of save-lisp-and-die with :save-runtime-options 18:30:39 p_l|home: the problem is that I am using slime ... 18:30:48 schoppenhauer: not a problem 18:30:52 schoppenhauer: you can give command-line options when starting lisp for slime. 18:31:09 Xach: afaik, emacs does not like this 18:31:18 schoppenhauer: Now you know better. 18:31:26 or you can pass --dynamic-space-size to make.sh 18:31:52 Xach: (setq inferior-lisp-program "/usr/bin/sbcl") when I add arguments, I think I get an error. Or do I have to add these arguments seperately? 18:32:47 schoppenhauer: Separately, https://gist.github.com/862494 18:32:55 ack, just hand to set element-type on with-open-file 18:33:07 *Saturnation* *will* be smart with Lisp _someday_ :) 18:33:18 schoppenhauer: I don't think you get an error, though if you do, TDT's method should work. 18:33:33 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: I'll see you on the dark side of the moon] 18:33:52 ironically I was dealing with this same issue an hour ago ;) 18:34:34 yup, i've experienced that breakage, slime-lisp-implementations fixed it for me 18:34:41 you don't need to pass anything separately 18:35:39 -!- Liera [~user@123.20.60.127] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:48 (setq inferior-lisp-program "/usr/bin/sbcl --dynamic-space-size 2300") perfectly works, provided that sbcl is there and 2300 fits 18:36:00 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:36:25 TDT, Xach, p_l|home, lichtblau: thank you 18:36:32 I tended to run SBCL with <512MB sometimes 18:36:36 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:52 *stassats* feels left out 18:36:59 Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:36:59 stassats: ? 18:37:06 *TDT* pokes stassats ot make him feel better 18:38:08 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:39:11 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:39:11 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:40:35 woudshoo` [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:40:40 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:41:56 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe8bd.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 18:43:06 -!- Areil [~Areil@123.20.60.127] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:43:23 you have to specify options separately if your slime is more than 3 years old 18:43:46 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-255-146.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 18:44:38 Ragnaroek [5b0c4b9c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.12.75.156] has joined #lisp 18:45:50 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:46:15 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 18:46:48 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-57.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 18:47:13 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-247.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:48:20 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:48:35 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:48:48 does somebody happen to know without having to look it up how to set the size of the backlog in the slime-repl-buffer? 18:49:06 because my program just returned (accidentally) a very long list which made emacs crash. 18:49:19 and as this was not the first time, maybe it would be a good idea to limit it. 18:49:28 or at least: do you know whether that is possible ^^ 18:49:37 schoppenhauer: you can use printer control variables for that purpose. 18:49:43 see *print-length* and friends. 18:49:49 awesome-o [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:35 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:59 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 18:51:59 schoppenhauer: there's no such thing 18:52:40 Xach: thank you. 18:53:00 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-126-186.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 18:53:13 i think there's a way to limit the size of the emacs buffer 18:53:58 to most-positive-fixnum? 18:54:11 Xach: thanks. 18:54:21 You're welcome! So welcome! 18:54:28 well, Xach's suggestion is sufficient for me, foom 18:54:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:54:48 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:54:54 Are you in Europe? You can thank me with a fine Amstel Light when I visit amsterdam in the fall! 18:54:59 -!- Sprayzor` [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:55:45 http://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/emacs/emacs_445.html see the entry under comint-truncate-buffer 18:56:13 that's for comint buffers, isn't it? 18:56:25 yea, slime isn't based on comint mode then? 18:56:34 only inferior lisp uses comint 18:57:05 well, then that won't work very well. :) 18:57:43 Xach: ITYM a fine Kwak 18:58:06 just doing C-c M-o suffices for me when there's too much 18:58:09 assuming lispers can find that nice belgian pub again 18:59:36 common lisp post on my blog, in case anyone is interested in graph theory: http://bit.ly/hif2eh 18:59:45 bleakgadfly [~bgadfly@nerdhaven.nuug.no] has joined #lisp 19:01:24 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe8bd.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:01:40 alama: can you give an example on how to run this function? 19:02:28 eh, no SUCCESSORS either 19:02:39 *stassats* wanted to improve it, but this stops me 19:02:40 well, if you've got a SUCCESSORS function set up (in my example, that function essentially encodes the entire graph), then just do something like (all-paths "a" "b") 19:03:06 stassats: what was your idea? 19:03:12 lichtblau: i don't know...when in rome, drink heineken, right? 19:03:50 alama: i won't tell you without testing, i don't want to look bad if it doesn't work 19:04:34 stassats: ok 19:05:01 i'm thinking of plugging in screamer at some point 19:05:26 anyone mixing screamer and hunchentoot? 19:05:57 alama: so, will you provide SUCCESSORS function? 19:06:31 stassats: um, well, in my case, SUCCESSORS is simply: (defun successors (vertex) (gethash vertex *my-adjacency-table*)) 19:06:40 exceptions confirm the rule, and the good beers in nederland are still from belgi\"e 19:07:43 alama: i wanted a runnable example 19:09:03 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:59 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:42 *Xach* comes across the strange stackoverflow question that is approximately "why isn't there slime for elisp?" 19:12:06 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:12:42 stassats: you want my table? 19:13:04 *stassats* started writing it once, but than said "screw it, i'm spending too much time on writing tools for writing tools" 19:13:08 alama: yes 19:13:15 s/than/then/ 19:14:05 Xach: what, debugging/working on an emacs that is not in the same process as the current emacs? 19:14:10 that sounds useful, for some things 19:14:48 i tried to make it use the same process, afair 19:14:59 <[df]> you'd probably want gdb if you need to debug emacs on that level 19:15:18 [df]: dunno, lisp-mode? 19:15:28 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:15:28 or debugging edebug (: 19:15:55 *stassats* wanted slime for elisp for easier development of slime 19:16:02 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 19:16:07 metacircularity ftw. 19:16:08 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Client Quit] 19:16:23 -!- rme [rme@clozure-CEC398A4.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 19:16:23 -!- rme [~rme@pool-68-238-4-125.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 19:16:40 stassats: http://bit.ly/gd6UB7 19:17:50 that's a big table, though i'm affraid you mixed the arguments to pushnew 19:18:06 (i'll correct it myself) 19:18:22 stassats: ah, right, sorry 19:18:28 antifuchs: more like "how do emacs lisp hackers write elisp since there's no slime for elisp?" 19:19:00 stassats: uploaded a fixed version, if you haven't fixed it yourself already 19:19:19 Xach: they use slimv! 19:19:48 question: why does clisp 2.4 die horribly when i point the cdr's of two cons cells to the others car? (it froze my system by eating up all avaliable ram) 19:20:06 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:20:17 bad_alloc: try setting *print-circle* to t first. 19:20:17 bad_alloc: you're trying to print a circular structure. 19:20:18 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:27 <[df]> Xach: in terms of slime's ability to connect to a separate process, or just its features in general? 19:20:31 so the printer dies and not lisp? 19:20:46 <[df]> because one could argue the latter about any non-CL language :D 19:20:48 s/lisp/the rest of the repl -p 19:21:12 isn't it usually slime that's dumb enough to actually die with OOM circular (or just long) output? 19:21:17 ok, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5238245/elisp-programming-whats-the-best-setup/5238358 is the actual post, i will stop trying to paraphrase. 19:21:19 the standard REPL usually just, well, prints stuff 19:22:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:07 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:23:11 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:23:11 it's not tail recursive though. 19:23:15 Xach: heh 19:24:13 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-178-185-60.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:24 alama: yeah, i used an emacs keyboard macro 19:24:39 though, emacs is quite slow for such kind of thing 19:24:46 "elisp has a much smaller community than common lisp" 19:24:49 stassats: that's just a small initial segment of the graph that i will eventually work with 19:24:56 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:25:08 lichtblau: that's the phrase that caught my google-enhanced eye 19:25:23 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:58 elisp has not much people who know what they're doing, or so it seems to me (judging by the code) 19:27:25 but i can say the same about CL 19:29:14 xibliophilist [~xibliophi@infosecs.sas.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 19:29:27 i suspect the ratios are different, though 19:31:39 more people scripting emacs, fewer people releasing software packages? 19:32:05 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:11 <[df]> more casual programmers in elisp, who just want to make something work and then forget about it 19:32:33 [df]: that's certainly my experience 19:32:49 like me (: 19:33:06 -!- splittist [~splittist@136-132.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:34:01 <[df]> I have to admit some of the elisp stuff I've done is horrible (not released though, just hacks in my .emacs) 19:34:08 i'd advice to go check a doctor if one were writing elisp for fun 19:34:37 Fortunately one is available (and written in elisp) 19:34:42 Probably written for fun. 19:35:35 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:35:54 [df]: my experience as well :-> 19:36:20 does the GUI version of emacs support step-through debugging with the mouse for any language? this is a pretty crucial feature of debugging in other IDEs that emacs seems to make very painful 19:36:39 GUD? 19:37:47 pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@77.109.101.132] has joined #lisp 19:37:59 -!- Saturnation [~Saturnati@pool-64-222-91-40.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:38:05 stassats: is that all key commands to step/continue/set breakpoints? 19:38:13 <[df]> I must have missed these other IDEs that support any language 19:38:26 gonzojive1: i don't use it, really, so i don't know 19:38:45 [df]: lol 19:38:52 then there's gdb interface 19:39:04 oh, whoops, i read that as "do not support any language" 19:39:05 and i don't miss single stepping in Lisp 19:40:52 alama: while not the point I was making, Eclipse is pretty close to supporting every language... even lisp 19:40:55 and if you have to, allegro cl has an excellent single stepper ((: 19:41:12 ah, I didn't know that, thanks antifuchs 19:41:13 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:41:24 Right now I'm really wishing I had a working debugger...for C++. 19:41:29 gonzojive1: I'm going to be working on integrating it into slime soon, I hope 19:41:41 GDB 7 is totally busted. :( 19:41:50 or maybe it's gcc 4.5's debug info output 19:42:00 foom: haha, a friend of mien complains about broken c++ debugging (especially re. scopes) in vc7 a lot. seems like nowhere is safe. 19:42:04 "mine" 19:42:07 damn this keyboard. 19:42:42 I just think single-stepping is best done with the mouse with a few buttons for step in/out/next, continue to here, set/remove breakpoint. doing all that stuff on the keyboard is a lot of keystrokes 19:43:00 yeah, the graphical IDE has very nice stepper integration 19:43:07 with optional stepping into macros and stuff 19:43:08 and it doesn't seem emacs supports the GUI life so well 19:43:22 nice 19:43:36 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:44:44 you can do this in emacs, it's just a SMOP 19:44:59 Cusp might be better for that sort of thing, though the project looks a little dormant http://www.bitfauna.com/projects/cusp/ 19:45:56 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:46 eclipse always seems to flagrantly waste screen space to me 19:46:58 you can make most panels auto-hide 19:47:21 which is what I used to do, most of the time. it's still not exactly a joy to use, but it's better than the default (: 19:48:12 it lives up to its name 19:49:15 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@188-195-186-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: let's see] 19:50:44 ale`` [~user@109.255.54.142] has joined #lisp 19:50:48 xorg-devel 19:51:02 -_-' 19:51:06 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.227.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:07 -!- wedgeV 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[~jwdunne@cpc1-ward9-2-0-cust148.10-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:04:42 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:04:59 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-243.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:06:34 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07:45 -!- woudshoo` [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:09:10 -!- leo2007 [~leo@218.85.168.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:09:41 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:11:42 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:55 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:59 -!- alama [~alama@193.137.143.157] has quit [Quit: alama] 20:13:48 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:15:06 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:15:10 entropax [~entropi@192.55.55.37] has joined #lisp 20:16:10 gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:17 astoon [~astoon@109.188.209.79] has joined #lisp 20:18:38 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:19:21 http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html -- lisp is growing in popularity 20:23:26 don't need a paper to tell you that, just look at common-lisp.net and the state of things compared to like 1995/2000 20:23:57 i think it compares it with 2010 20:24:19 sorancio [~sorancio@62.57.181.64.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:24:22 heh 20:24:22 -!- sorancio [~sorancio@62.57.181.64.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #lisp 20:24:37 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-255-146.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:55 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:57 oGMo: Hey, what are you doing here! 20:26:37 sellout: lisp and interesting discussion ;) 20:27:56 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:28:09 needed a platform i could whip out gui apps on quickly and nothing else was quite doing it 20:28:18 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 20:28:31 we have a good gui lib? 20:28:49 no, but cl-gtk bindings aren't horrible, and everything else is good ;) 20:29:13 Ralith: yes, commonqt 20:29:31 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 20:29:41 I'm leery of Qt; seems awfully C++ 20:29:56 your loss 20:30:07 Ralith: even funnier, C++ with a touch of MOP 20:30:09 brb 20:31:26 oh and there's the objc/cocoa stuff but i haven't played around there either 20:31:26 indeed. When a tool needs a custom precompiler for its *native* lang, it seems like it doesn't bode well for it porting elegantly. 20:32:13 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 20:32:20 eh 20:32:54 C++ already has one, and i can't really argue against code generation 20:33:17 if you only want to discuss it theoretically, then yes, Qt isn't perfect 20:33:37 *oGMo* checks out commonqt 20:33:42 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-171-124.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:10 Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:34:57 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:35:22 -!- gz` [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 20:35:26 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.221.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:35:26 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 20:35:41 oh nice, i only saw the EQL one and was like "eh" 20:35:49 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 20:36:33 *stassats* misses cadaddr 20:37:28 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:38:01 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-14-244.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:30 (car (cdaddr ...)) is so inelegant 20:39:04 hi 20:39:28 *stassats* doesn't even consider (second (third ...)) 20:39:56 stassats: if you turned #\c into the appropriate read-macro... 20:40:00 -!- Atomsk [~ace4016@adsl-32-14-244.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:40:23 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:41:00 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:41:03 -!- VincentLee [~vincentle@121.140.17.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:42:04 Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:42:36 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffeafc.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 20:43:26 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:55 -!- basho__ [~basho__@p4FDA6D4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:58 please I need help converting plist to a custom defined class. Thanks 20:44:31 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:28 -!- redline6561 [~user@cpe-76-184-243-16.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:46:29 I'm using cl-ppcre's split operation to split a line so I can assign it to variables. I've been settling on just returning an a-list which I can look up the elements I need in the function that calls this. The code I'm using is here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120359 Is there a better way to write the let statement, such that I don't need to do the whole (first ..) (second ..) and so on? 20:46:57 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-171-124.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:47:28 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:48:39 TDT: (mapcar #'cons (ppcre:split "\\s+" line) '(chr bpstart bpend snp)) 20:48:41 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 20:49:34 or rather (mapcar #'cons '(chr bpstart bpend snp) (ppcre:split "\\s+" line)) 20:50:06 basho__ [~basho__@p4FDA6D4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:11 stassats: very nice, makes sense...didn't dawn on me to use mapcar here. Thanks 20:50:45 *Xach* sometimes uses something like (split-bind (x y &rest z) line ...) 20:50:57 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:51:24 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:51:42 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:51:56 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:01 i wanted to suggest (destructuring-bind (a b c) (ppcre:split ...)) but then i saw the pattern 20:52:42 Posterdati: what's wrong with (apply (function make-instance) plist)? 20:53:02 pjb: that leaves object inside plist as plists 20:53:03 not everything has an initarg? 20:53:19 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:28 Posterdati: yesterday, you quoted a cll post of mine where I explained what had to be done. 20:53:36 Posterdati: don't you read what you quote? 20:53:40 pjb: yes, I tried it 20:54:38 Will you have circles in your data structure? 20:54:40 pjb: I copied the class definitions and they works 20:54:44 Ok. 20:54:46 pjb: no circles 20:55:21 Then for the slots that contains references to other objects, you need to recursivelly call the to-sexp method. 20:55:48 pjb: ok, that's what I like to do... And I'm starting to write a sexp->class function 20:56:41 Well, there's a trick you could use. If you keep a list of name of classes, you can walk the tree you read from the file, and for each sublist that starts with the name of a class, you replace it with the result of the call to make-instance. 20:57:03 pjb: that's the point 20:57:17 Ok. 20:57:31 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:57:33 pjb: let me tell you... 20:57:34 Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:41 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:57:52 pjb: actually only three object could have other objects inside 20:58:04 -!- HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-149-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:58:29 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:58 pjb: say ((passive "r1") (passive "r2") (coupling :name "m1" ((passive "l1") (passive "l2"))) 20:58:59 It's always good when you can write code making no assumption: it's more general (no need to change when the usage changes) and it's simplier. 20:59:07 Posterdati: yes. 20:59:34 pjb: passive "l1" and "l2" are embedded in a parent object 21:00:08 pjb: say ((passive :name "r1") (passive :name "r2") (coupling :name "m1" :elements ((passive "l1") (passive "l2"))) 21:00:26 a plist :) 21:00:27 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:00:45 pjb: sorry!!! ((passive :name "r1") (passive :name "r2") (coupling :name "m1" :elements ((passive :name "l1") (passive :name "l2"))) 21:00:59 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:01:05 pjb: should I use methods? 21:01:10 gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.94] has joined #lisp 21:01:11 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:01:11 francogrex [~user@109.130.113.74] has joined #lisp 21:01:49 My suggestion is to write (objectify '(passive coupling node ...) (read stream)) 21:02:15 Since both arguments are lists, objectify is probably better be a mere function. 21:03:24 pjb: then I need to create an instance of coupling and then assign to its slot named :element the objectified plists called "l1" and "l2" 21:03:36 sorry :elements 21:03:47 I just gave the algorithm! 21:03:52 Well, there's a trick you could use. If you keep a list of name of classes, you can walk the tree you read from the file, and for each sublist that starts with the name of a class, you replace it with the result of the call to make-instance. 21:04:51 pjb: ok is what I would like to do, but how can I create the same structure using objects? 21:05:06 redline6561 [~user@cpe-76-184-243-16.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:05:32 -!- _reid [~reid@pool-108-1-61-117.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:05:36 I mean, how can I told at coupling class that its slot called :elements has got a list of two passive type objects? 21:06:06 You don't need to say that. 21:06:31 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:19 Posterdati: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120257#9 21:07:28 pjb: I have to visit each plist elements then 21:07:42 You don't even have to identify plists. 21:08:34 pjb: mmmh I'll try right now, wait please! 21:08:50 But indeed, considering a sexp, we visit all the cons cells. 21:09:03 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:09:18 There's a problem in my function. 21:10:09 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 21:10:14 Posterdati: correction: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120257#10 21:10:58 Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:11:33 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 21:11:51 pjb: working!!!! Great! Thanks 21:11:55 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:46 pjb: now (objectify '(node source passive ...) (read in)) 21:13:29 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:46 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:16:52 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:05 Hezy [~Hezy@81.199.251.200] has joined #lisp 21:20:17 -!- Hezy [~Hezy@81.199.251.200] has left #lisp 21:23:47 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:24:56 pjb: perfect! You're great! Thanks 21:26:56 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:12 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:27:30 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:24 pjb: let me see if I understand your function: you used a recursion, then three conditions. First condition is a stop condition return the input if it is an atom. Second condition apply objectify to those elements of types in classes. Third apply objectify to sexp elements alone 21:30:02 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87e7ec.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:31:26 alama [~alama@a79-169-86-70.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:31:44 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-86-70.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:06 alama [~alama@a79-169-86-70.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:33:13 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:31 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-165-119.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:40 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-165-119.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:35:52 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:36:11 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:37:28 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 21:39:50 euangelion [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:39:51 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:14 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 21:42:20 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@vpn-137-043.rz.uni-augsburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:42:46 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.94] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:44:53 ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:45:24 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:45:56 cheezus [~Adium@bas1-toronto63-1096578649.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:46:53 jesusito [~user@18.pool85-49-239.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 21:48:42 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:49:03 wedgeV [~me@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:32 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 21:54:41 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:54:43 hello lispers! 21:55:51 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@vpn-137-043.rz.uni-augsburg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:56:52 -!- beach` is now known as beach 21:57:43 hello mon_key 21:57:55 [and Good morning everyone!] 21:58:31 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:46 -!- jso [~user@wsip-70-164-99-62.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:46 -!- Ragnaroek [5b0c4b9c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.12.75.156] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:01:26 _reid [~reid@static-173-53-180-155.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:33 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-171-182.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:49 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:04:12 -!- _reid [~reid@static-173-53-180-155.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:41 _reid [~reid@static-173-53-180-155.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:50 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:05:19 jso [~user@wsip-70-164-99-62.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:44 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 22:06:36 -!- froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:07:58 Posterdati: correct. 22:09:14 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:09:43 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:18 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87e7ec.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:34 pjb: now I'd like to write sexp-ify may I ask your help if I should fail? :) Thanks 22:11:52 -!- srcerer_ is now known as release 22:12:19 -!- srcerer is now known as Guest91345 22:12:26 -!- Guest91345 [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12:30 pjb: how could I know slots in a class? 22:12:56 shaunren [~shaun@bas2-cooksville17-1279412276.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:14:00 -!- release is now known as srcerer_ 22:14:08 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633488.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:14:27 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 22:15:23 -!- kerx [~kerx@209.208.63.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:15:34 milkpost_ [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffeafc.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 22:17:26 rootzlevel [~hpd@188-195-186-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 22:18:11 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffeafc.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:18:36 is there a way to know slots in a class? 22:18:42 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.209.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:19:33 Posterdati: one way is to write down a list. you can ask the system for a list by using the MOP. 22:20:19 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5A7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:26 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:23:12 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-76-60.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:26:41 Sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:00 hmm, i'd like to get sbcl to stop complaining about redefining defconstant'd variables when i recompile a file 22:27:11 alama: then stop using defconstant 22:27:21 Xach: but these things are constants 22:27:32 <_3b> or define them with things that are actually constant per the spec 22:27:44 alama: There's not much point if they're not eql. 22:27:58 they are string constants 22:28:07 use defconstant-equal then 22:28:11 <_3b> something like alexandria:define-constant might help for non-constant constants 22:28:12 (you need to define it yourself, google it) 22:28:48 perhaps i should wrap these in an eval-when 22:28:55 wrap the defconstant forms, that is 22:29:06 here, I googled it for you: http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/slime-devel/2007-March/013818.html 22:29:11 alama: it won't be of any use: define-constant / defconstant-equal are the solution 22:29:53 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:31:06 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726]] 22:31:43 antifuchs: thanks, didn't know about define-constant 22:32:05 they're in alexandria, AFAIK, but everything uses alexandria anyway (: 22:32:28 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:32 antifuchs: yeah, it came along for the ride when i set up hunchentoot 22:32:43 yay alexandria (: 22:32:46 (using quicklisp, obviously -- thanks Xach) 22:33:11 hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633488.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:33:21 gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:34:01 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:34:14 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 22:34:20 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:38:02 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c65a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:35 hi 22:39:12 nipra [~nipra@122.169.85.89] has joined #lisp 22:39:24 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.235] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:45:35 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-57.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:46:44 foom: thanks 22:46:54 -!- milkpost_ [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffeafc.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:48:30 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:48:36 ale`` [~user@109.255.54.142] has joined #lisp 22:49:25 MoALTz [~no@92.18.25.30] has joined #lisp 22:49:41 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:49:49 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-17-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:12 -!- ale` [~user@109.255.54.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:52:17 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-17-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:52:28 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.8.155.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:55:28 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c65a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:10 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-76-60.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 22:59:24 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C4EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:01:10 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-255-146.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 23:01:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:02:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-49-41.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 23:02:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-49-41.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 23:02:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 23:03:57 -!- jesusito [~user@18.pool85-49-239.dynamic.orange.es] has left #lisp 23:04:05 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 23:04:30 could anyone explain me how to fix this? "Versions differ: 2011-02-18 (slime) vs. 2011-03-09 (swank)" 23:04:34 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:04:42 <_3b> un-differ the versions 23:05:00 <_3b> make sure slime and swank are loaded from teh same place, etc 23:05:19 they are...or at least I suppose they do 23:05:20 sounds like either you ran cvs up and your emacs already had slime loaded, or you're loading swank/slime from different places 23:05:57 <_3b> look in *inferior-lisp* and see where it is loading swnk files 23:06:02 -!- cheezus [~Adium@bas1-toronto63-1096578649.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06:05 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:09 emacs locks .el files when loaded? 23:06:17 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:06:40 <_3b> M-x describe-function on some slime-foo and click the slime.el link and see where it loaded slime from 23:06:42 nope. it loads the code once unless told to reload (: 23:06:50 _3b: swank is loaded from the correct place 23:06:52 slime is not 23:07:01 well, looks like you need to fix this (: 23:07:19 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 23:08:23 -!- hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633488.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:09:01 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.169.85.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:10:19 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-164-195.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:10:29 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-082.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:10:41 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Quit: brb] 23:11:42 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:12:14 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 23:12:58 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 23:13:02 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.113.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:35 can't figure out where it loaded it from 23:13:52 M-x locate-libary RET slime RET 23:13:57 thanks 23:14:09 aaaah 23:14:14 quicklisp! 23:14:17 darn! 23:14:29 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.126] has joined #lisp 23:14:42 hahaha, ouch 23:18:10 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:18:42 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:11 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:23:09 Posterdati: for the third time, have a look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120323 23:25:20 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-255-146.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:48 Posterdati: and for the second time, an alternative is to define a macro doing both the defclass and the sexpify method, so that you can specify slots only once (but you may not want to serialize all the slots, so it may be good to give the list explicitely). 23:28:33 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-255-146.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 23:29:38 thanks for the help guys 23:29:51 fixed it at last! 23:30:43 Saturnation [~Saturnati@72.92.159.213] has joined #lisp 23:31:52 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 23:32:14 damg [~damg@p5086F56E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:43 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633488.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:35:55 is push the best/only way to add elements to a list? 23:36:09 if to the front, then yes 23:36:38 and then nreverse as the final functionn, yeah? :) 23:36:43 you can keep a reference to the last cons in the list and keep (setf (cdr ...))ing that 23:37:07 append didn't act as I wrongly anticapted :( 23:37:09 on sbcl at least, that is faster when consing up lists with many elements 23:37:12 nope 23:37:18 <_3b> you can cons onto the front of the list without assigning it to a variable 23:37:20 that is O(n) for each append operation 23:37:56 *Saturnation* 's not so worried about optimization just yet 23:38:24 push/nreverse is kinda the easiest-to-skim way, I think 23:38:33 (if you're unconcerned about performance in this particular case) 23:38:42 also, there's a COLLECTING macro which may be interesting to you 23:38:47 so basically, given a list and an atom, push/nreverse is probably most idomatic? 23:39:10 I think so. Or loop/collect 23:39:11 and I want to add the atom to the end of the list 23:39:13 thanks 23:39:31 <_3b> push/nreverse is for building a list, rather than adding 1 item to the end 23:40:40 _3b which is building a list??? 23:40:44 myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 23:40:59 of course, what's even faster and easier to skim is using a vector. 23:41:02 hmm, (push 'test ()) doesn't work so well... :) and yes, I know why 23:41:15 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:41:19 thanks for the suggestions, I'll probably just do push 23:42:59 <_3b> Saturnation: if you have N atoms you want to be in a list, as opposed to 1 item you want at the end of an existing list 23:43:01 Signally an error in and ide with a bell ain't great when the speakers are barely audible 23:43:23 _3b, building up the list recursively, so only have the 1 N times :) 23:44:19 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:44:29 antifuchs: doesn't loop/collect keep track of the last item of a list so that it doesn't have to walk it all to add to it? 23:44:41 rien: yes, it does 23:44:48 that's the "keep the last cons cell" technique 23:44:55 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:01 at least it does in the loop most lisps distribute (: 23:45:04 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-082.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 23:45:07 (I haven't tested in all of them) 23:45:14 ok. so in that respect it's different than push/nreverse because what that does is conses all items and then reverses the whole list when done? 23:45:32 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:52 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:46:26 both cons approximately the same number of elements, if nreverse is destructive. it's just that after you're done with the rplacd approach, you don't have to nreverse 23:47:02 -!- mpereira [~murilo@201.82.50.37] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:49:13 davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:48 mpereira [~murilo@201.82.50.37] has joined #lisp 23:52:21 antifuchs: I gotta read up on push/nreverse some more then 23:53:20 make a diagram! (: 23:54:43 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 23:55:40 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:55:59 fisted_ [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has joined #lisp 23:56:42 -!- wedgeV [~me@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:57:44 -!- fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:57:48 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-126-186.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving]