00:01:41 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:40 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:36 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.116.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:47 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.75.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:04:52 rootlocus [~rootlocus@240218000001280102264afffe09eee2.ptr-ipv6.nicta.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:37 gozoner [~ebg@207.151.193.99] has joined #lisp 00:07:40 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:17 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:15:36 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:44 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.196] has joined #lisp 00:16:57 -!- astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-41-181.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Quit] 00:18:23 -!- davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:20:28 Ok, I have a style question concerning avoidance of symbol conflicts. Up until recently, I was highly parano about "potential" symbol conflicts so I systematically included a "disambiguating token" as part of the name of all (or almost all) symbols part of the public interface. But now I'm trying to go for shorter, cleaner names but more likely to result in conflicts... 00:20:35 So I'm making a library about processing of declarations, and I need an object representation of declarations, to this end I'd need a class named something like "declaration", but of course this conflicts with cl:declaration. 00:20:42 The naming strategy for the class includes: 1. "prodec-declaration" (no conflict) 2. "declaration", part of public interface yet not exported, use prodec::declaration to refer to it (no conflict and rarely used symbol) 3. "declaration", exported, conflict so use shadowing. 00:20:48 What's the best solution? Is there one of these that really shouldn't be used? What about if this library has "query" objects? Is it sane to call them simply "query" (simple but high possibility of symbol conflicts) or I should use my usual convention of a "disambiguating token"? 00:20:54 I guess what I'm asking is, what do people hate the least and the most? Really long names, really clashy symbols or public symbols that aren't exported from the package? (Sorry, this is a bit long...) 00:22:02 I tend to not :use packages often 00:22:13 so in my erlang package, I call erl:send instead of erlang-send or something 00:22:35 that's for crossing library boundaries obviously 00:23:56 if you do it that, you could keep your own symbols shadowing the CL, so users of your lib can do your-lib:declaration 00:24:09 and naked 'declaration would hit cl: 00:24:51 Interesting. Though it seems like not saying what packages a package references in the DEFPACKAGE might be problematic... And, if I have lots of clashy symbols, I'd have to force all users of my library to use this naming:convention, and I'd rather not do that... 00:25:12 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-230-245.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:25:28 depends on the usage scenario your lib is intended for 00:25:39 A declarations processing library. 00:25:50 our internal simple-utils package is typically :use'd, as it has lots of cool macros used everywhere 00:25:57 but I always do bt:* for bordeaux-threads, for instance 00:26:06 Yeah, that makes sense. 00:26:46 myu2_ [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 00:26:47 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:57 (and hence our simple-utils has to make sure it's not clashy with cl: symbols) 00:27:59 -!- myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:28:53 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@208.69.183.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:28:59 shachaf [~shachaf@208.69.183.87] has joined #lisp 00:31:58 -!- gozoner [~ebg@207.151.193.99] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:32:53 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-230-245.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 00:34:30 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:35:15 gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.216.32] has joined #lisp 00:36:01 gko [~gko@223-138-129-135.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:09 you can also integrate the package's name in your naming scheme. For instance, instead of make-foo, have foo:make! 00:38:07 That seems like a quick way to cripple :use forever if lots of people start doing that. Or everyone will have to use :shadow and :shadowing-import-from profusely. 00:38:11 myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 00:39:35 Hexstream: there are packages that are designed to not be :used 00:39:42 Hexstream: the point is not to :use these packages. 00:39:55 also you are not supposed to worry about potential all problems your users could ever encounter (: 00:39:58 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:40:02 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:40:17 it's much nicer to define a useful interface and let them worry about things as they come up (: 00:40:17 A solution that could be nice would be to be able to declare a symbol as "public", so that you wouldn't export it from the package, yet symbol completion would show it (along with the prefix::), and it would be explicitly part of the public interface. 00:40:54 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-94-247.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 00:41:10 Of course even nicer would be (defpackage #:my-package (:public #:my-symbol)) but we know that won't happen before long at best! 00:41:27 that's what a my-defpackage macro is for ;) 00:41:40 I don't see the point. You want a package that's meant to be :USEd, but keep some symbols explicitly prefixed? 00:42:17 (fwiw, you can do that by simply having two packages) 00:42:29 pkhuong: Yes, so that I can use a nice short clean naming convention while minimizing troubles. 00:42:58 pkhuong: I'd end up with 1 package with ~20 symbols and another with ~2 symbols ;) 00:43:06 what's the problem with that? 00:43:13 QinGW [~wangqingw@60.247.26.3] has joined #lisp 00:43:17 Phoodus: I used to dream about and consider these kinds of shallow extensions to the standard, but no more. 00:44:08 I don't know, it seems unnecessarily cumbersome. Might as well prefix:: the package name for that particular one-off clashy symbol. 00:44:58 Hexstream: ime, you can change your naming scheme so the package doesn't haave to be USEd. 00:46:47 I don't know, I like :use-ing packages, it's quite convenient. Especially for utility packages you'll use from many packages. Though I have to admit I might consider going the prefix: route for some packages like bordeaux-threads from now on. 00:46:59 for those symbols that would clash with CL, that's a net win, and usually, you can make the others nice enough. 00:47:02 package nicknames are your friend 00:47:20 Phoodus: They are, already! 00:47:41 USEless work better when you see packages as a way to manage APIs, not libraries, though. 00:48:43 if I have three interfaces, I'll use as many packages, even if it's all in the same system or library. 00:48:50 There's typically a one-to-one correspondence between my libraries and packages. (I used to have several internal packages for one library, but that's another story.) 00:50:47 How to decide if what I'm looking at is one interface or three interfaces?... Expected usage patterns? 00:52:00 Hexstream: that's almost the same question as class design in message-passing languages. 00:52:02 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:52:07 Slicing a library in multiple interfaces seems a bit like overkill unless your library is really big or there are very distinct usage patterns... 00:53:41 Hexstream: prefixing names is just an ad hoc way to do manage namespaces. Migh as well use the pre hoc way, packages. 00:54:44 pkhuong: Yeah, that's the conclusion I'm getting at more and more recently. I'm getting a bit sick of super long names. 00:55:21 And I'd very much like to avoid abbreviation insanity. 00:56:06 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:58:17 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:58:35 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:11 hello everyone 01:00:39 rootlocus: Hi. 01:00:39 this discussion reminds me of a thread on the Common Lisp [pro] mailing list. Xach highlighted it: http://xach.livejournal.com/278815.html 01:00:48 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:00:59 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:10 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-230-245.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 01:01:35 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:01:45 Whoa. What's this "pro" mailing list?? 01:02:44 I thought there was only the spammy cll for general lisp discussion o_o 01:06:05 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:07:11 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:39 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:11:11 carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.95] has joined #lisp 01:11:19 Hexstream: it's for people using CL in their day jobs. I like reading it because as a neophyte I learn a lot from the discussions between experienced CL developers. It's good for discovering bits of the language that I don't yet know about. 01:13:06 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:13:11 Oh, so I see that it's relatively recent. Since July 2010. 01:13:17 vilsonvieira [~vilson@201.22.83.150.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:13:27 -!- davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:23 -!- illumina` [~user@pool-71-114-7-169.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:19:00 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 01:19:31 myu2_ [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 01:20:47 -!- myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:25:09 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 01:25:14 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-155-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:28:43 -!- Spion__ is now known as Spion 01:28:50 -!- Spion [~spion@77.29.250.12] has quit [Changing host] 01:28:50 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 01:29:36 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:39 Speaking of packages-as-APIs, it would be cool to be able to do library-package:api-package:symbol, or lp:ap:symbol where lp and ap are the nicknames of the packages. 01:32:27 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34:15 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 01:36:39 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:37:25 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Some days you are the pigeon, other days the statue.] 01:37:40 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:37:48 basho__ [~basho__@188.108.229.12] has joined #lisp 01:38:20 myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 01:38:58 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-164-184.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:39:10 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:39:11 -!- konr 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02:02:11 leo2007 [~leo@117.28.22.139] has joined #lisp 02:04:02 how to know if my common lisp implementation has tail-call optimisation? 02:04:27 The manual might say. 02:07:18 Hi! Does someone know of an algorithm in Lisp to limit the maximum denominator of a rational number? 02:07:51 peterhil: i found my gtkglext build problem. it requires an X server at build time, which I don't normally have. 02:08:04 peterhil: I'm going to try to figure out how to work around it. 02:09:29 Xach: working on something interesting? 02:09:31 -!- Guest83740 is now known as xristos 02:09:50 -!- myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:55 Xach: i think lichtblau went with a dummy X server for the Qt thingy test suite. 02:10:11 peterhil: rationals are automatically reduced in CL. 02:10:44 xristos: quicklisp builds. 02:11:15 cl-opengl had the same problem, and i lobbied successfully to change the build-time behavior 02:11:20 myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 02:11:33 pkhuong: I know, but I need to limit the denominator by approximating to some limit in the 22000-192000 region... 02:12:00 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-245-62-252.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 02:12:02 peterhil: You could do, say, a continued fraction expansion and stop when the denominator is big enough. I think that might work. 02:12:31 is google down? and if not, could someone drop me an ip address of a working server? 02:12:35 peterhil: oh. (/ (round (* x max-denominator)) max-denominator) ? 02:12:39 rtoym: Yes, that seems to be what Wikipedia suggets 02:12:56 Or just work in fixed point. 02:12:58 peterhil: About matlisp: How did you want to convert a matrix to a lisp array? 02:12:59 madnificent: google is not down. 72.14.204.99 02:13:14 There's other option though, using Farey sequences. I'm actually pondering the relative benefits 02:13:40 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d8531ba.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 02:13:51 Because I need as much accuracy as possible with the limited denominator, so fast convergence is not necessary 02:14:05 Xach: it works by ip address. The ip address resolves, but it doesn't load when I type in the url. (neither does yahoo, nor bing). Perhaps I broke firefox 02:14:24 I like pkhuong's suggestion about using fixed point. 02:14:49 rtoym: I usually want to convert the matrix to a same dimensional array. I need to get the values as samples for playback. 02:15:06 Or to an image, or video 02:15:14 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 02:15:22 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BADF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:15:58 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:16:00 peterhil: Ok. That's pretty easy. I can create some function to do that for you. What should it be called? 02:16:17 make-lisp-array? convert-to-lisp-array? 02:16:22 Xach: I think you mix me up with someone else. I did not know you had problems with gtgkext... :-) 02:16:42 rtoym: How about as-array? 02:17:02 Or convert-to-array 02:17:50 Someday there might be multidimensional arrays in matlisp, so "array" might be to generic. 02:18:13 peterhil: you can probably look at how RATIONALIZE is implemented. 02:18:18 Oh, true... so as-lisp-array? 02:18:42 pkhuong: I'll take a peek. And consider the fixed point option too. :-) 02:19:08 Cmucl's rationalize does a continued fraction expansion. 02:20:17 peterhil: And the result is a copy, right? (Well, it kind of has to be for matrices since Lisp arrays are stored differently than Fortran arrays). 02:21:50 rtoym: amazingly enough, so does SBCL's ;) 02:22:22 Really? I stole (with permission) the algorithm for clisp. I thought it was after the fork. 02:22:30 Er, from clisp. 02:22:32 rtoym: Actually most useful would be a way to be able to access the store in some desired traversal order (think Python strides). And to make optionally make a copy of that as array. 02:22:44 -!- rien|home is now known as rien 02:23:07 "This algorithm for RATIONALIZE, due to Bruno Haible, is included with permission." 02:23:29 I need often for example to just take the real or imaginary parts os complex samples, so specifying a step size 2 and offset of 0 or 1 would give me those. 02:23:29 Pre-fork then. My memory is going. I can feel it. 02:23:37 -!- myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:42 I also sometimes need larger step sizes 02:24:37 pkhuong: Where is that from? SBCL? Doesn't Bruno Haible also code for Python? 02:24:59 krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:25:01 peterhil: maybe. He's behind a lot of clisp's bignum smartness. 02:25:06 (or clisp in general) 02:25:28 peterhil: The iterator/stride stuff will have to wait for another day. But I can give you convert-to-lisp-array. (Don't like as-lisp-array. It means something else to me.) 02:25:58 rtoym: OK, well that stride thing takes some thought. And maybe I can do some of it... :-) 02:26:21 That would be excellent. Open-source at work! 02:27:09 Ugh. What does sed 's/foo/bar/ig' mean? I know what s means and I know what g means, but what does i mean? 02:27:12 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.205.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:27:24 rtoym: case insensitive, no? 02:27:49 Is it? Can't find it documented anywhere and it breaks maxima's build on OSX. 02:29:24 "The I modifier to regular-expression matching is a GNU extension which makes sed match regexp in a case-insensitive manner" 02:30:18 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:30:27 How is that different from -i? (Well, I guess if you have multiple patterns per sed command, you might want i.) 02:30:49 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:32:17 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:33:10 Xach: cheers. 02:37:35 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl12-86-63.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:45:50 i made a premature decision to refactor a project into a library. the library and the project are still in flux so i'm now in a hellish situation of needing to keep the package file up to date at all times. is there a way i can essentially :use the library package without explicitly exporting the symbols in the package definition? 02:50:16 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-203-127.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:56 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.95] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:54:07 ikki [~ikki@189.139.132.217] has joined #lisp 02:55:19 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:59:15 Just put (in-package ...) in your Lisp file for the moment? 03:00:24 That is, instead of (in-package :my-library), put (in-package :my-library-user)... 03:01:46 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-180-182.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:08:52 gko: ah! good idea :D 03:09:25 -!- rien is now known as rien|home 03:11:40 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:18:01 bttf [~docBrown@c-69-246-160-131.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:50 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:59 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:26:07 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:42 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 03:31:10 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-90-52-4.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:32:48 pkhuong: Actually I did some experiments, and it seems that your solution (/ (round (* x max-denominator)) max-denominator) is absolutely the best fit for this problem, as it's absolute mean error is about 5.32e-06 compared to the Python's limit_denominator algorithm's 9.92e-10 and the actual accuracy I need is at most 4.72e-03! 03:33:12 I thought of using something like that, but didn't give it too much thought 03:33:41 It also has the benefit for producing fewer number of different denominators (32 versus 157) 03:34:02 So no need for high tech algorithms... :-) 03:36:38 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:36:44 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 03:37:19 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-38-142-34.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:37:22 And the denominators tend to be smaller also with mean being 18149.287 compared to 27885.726. The test set I used was different equal tone frequencies from C-1 to C14 03:37:23 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:37:34 so, it looks like you could just go with fixed point (and maybe double the number of bits in the denominator), if it's ever too slow ;) 03:39:25 a quick back of the envelope sketch half convinced me that you can achieve at least the precision that comes from finding the best denominator by just squaring the max denominator and always using that. 03:40:51 MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.3.201] has joined #lisp 03:40:55 -!- pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@77.109.100.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:41:15 pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@77.109.100.142] has joined #lisp 03:41:54 Yeh, fixed points ftw, if it's ever too fast... :-) 03:42:02 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:24 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.9.76.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:43:14 I didn't quite follow that sketch estimate? How does the squaring of the max denominator work for precision? 03:43:16 (or go with floats, actually :) 03:43:20 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:43:20 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 615 seconds] 03:43:40 Actually rational numbers are more efficient here. 03:43:59 Because it's not the calculation of them that matters, but what follows after... 03:44:42 I need to calculate less and store less objects if there are fewer denominators. With floats I would have 2**32... 03:45:23 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.12] has joined #lisp 03:45:23 peterhil: I was thinking of arithmetic on that sort of rounded rationals. 03:45:31 Err, how's the floats again... x bits of exponent and 22 mantissa 03:45:48 -!- gko [~gko@223-138-129-135.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [] 03:46:10 for single floats? 1 sign, 8 exponent, 23+1 significand. 03:46:39 Hmm, that's a strange idea. Like interval arithmetic, but in reverse. :-) 03:47:19 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:47:40 acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 03:47:55 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD936BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 03:49:12 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:49:18 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:49:25 You can think of floating or fixed point arithmetic as regular arithmetic followed by a rounding step. That's just using a different rounding operator. 03:50:03 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:51:17 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:52:55 acieroid` [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 03:53:00 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:54:03 Well, true. 03:55:05 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:59:45 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:59 dangN_ [~max@p5DE8F511.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:45 -!- dangN [~max@p5DE8F2D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:05:28 cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.78] has joined #lisp 04:05:35 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.78] has quit [Changing host] 04:05:35 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:06:07 -!- krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 04:07:45 -!- tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:13 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:11:23 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12:44 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:14:05 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.12] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:17:58 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.21] has joined #lisp 04:22:00 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:23:32 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:26:25 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 04:27:35 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:27:37 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:29:27 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.132.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:29:27 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:29:30 gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:29 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:32:31 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:40:05 Hmmm, the simpler rounding sounds a bit different. A bit harsher maybe. I guess the larger errors cause more beating when there are many different frequencies. 04:42:35 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-orssjtvnmtmwnyhg] has joined #lisp 04:46:35 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 04:47:58 Ah, in practise the range of error in the simpler rounding is +-0.5 Hz, which produces 2 sec beating... 04:49:38 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:19 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:28 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:51:26 H4ns``` [~user@p579F8F4C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:38 Or upto 2 sec variations in the sound timbre when the error in overtones can have an error of +-0.5Hz. 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[~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:25:20 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:26 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 06:26:43 -!- Guest77326 [~cfy@122.228.131.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:28:44 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@36.Red-83-50-3.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:30:35 -!- Guest773` [~cfy@122.228.135.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:30:48 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@201.22.83.150.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:34:06 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-90-52-4.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 06:34:36 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:36:16 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.140] has joined #lisp 06:36:35 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 06:37:45 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:41:47 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:30 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:44:53 -!- PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:45:12 PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 06:47:40 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:51:44 chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-93-174-55.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:53:50 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-24-0-146-14.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:54:32 adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:42 mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-svmyqxwgnhklwepy] has joined #lisp 06:55:58 are there any emacs asdf system browsers that let you navigate around a system via list of symbols? am i overlooking this functionality in slime somehow? 07:00:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:01:54 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 07:05:32 marijnjh [~user@p5DDB3F62.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:01 how do I run lispworks's personal edition as a regular console lisp for use with slime? 07:09:29 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:10:19 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 07:11:29 hm, seems I can't 07:11:53 -!- jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:19 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:12:37 also, do I understand correctly that the standard allows (concatenate 'string "a" "") -- or any other non-base char? 07:12:46 LispWorks doesn't seem to accept it 07:13:35 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 07:16:15 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-048-098.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:57 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:16:57 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:16:57 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:20:43 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:15 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@240218000001280102264afffe09eee2.ptr-ipv6.nicta.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:26:31 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:27:02 -!- _danb_ [~user@203.38.189.126] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:27:33 marijnjh: are you sure it is the CONCATENATE that complains? 07:30:37 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:30:38 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:31:16 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 07:36:35 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:37:03 good morning 07:40:40 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 07:40:40 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 07:40:40 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 07:42:09 splittist [~splittist@179-178.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:43:13 -!- splittist [~splittist@179-178.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 07:43:26 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:44:16 should we really use (declaim inline ..) or is it best to leave it to the compiler? 07:46:36 splittist [~splittist@179-178.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:47:31 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:01 ZabaQ: why would compiler do inlining? 07:48:26 ZabaQ: will compiler also go and recompile all the places where the function has been inlined in? 07:50:48 no 07:50:54 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51:36 jdz: what are you trying to say? 07:52:01 ZabaQ: what happens if you redefine a function that has been declared inline? 07:52:05 -!- splittist [~splittist@179-178.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 07:52:16 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:52:56 ZabaQ: and what would happen if you redefine a function that compiler decided to inline by itself (if it would do it)? 07:52:57 l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:07 -!- marijnjh [~user@p5DDB3F62.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:53:15 I don't care in this context. 07:53:17 marijnjh [~user@p5DDB3F62.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:20 which context? 07:53:37 I thinking inthe context of batch compilation by asdf, not interactive compilation. 07:53:56 ZabaQ: there's no such thing as "interactive compilation" 07:54:35 somebody knowledgeable of compilation units might chime in to shed some light, though 07:55:19 jdz: give me a watertight defnition of "interactive" and I might agree 07:55:42 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:55:43 splittist [~splittist@179-178.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:56:04 #sophistry is over there... 07:56:07 ZabaQ: no, it's you who has to give definitions, because functions may be redefined by the code itself (not involving any kind of interactions from the user) 07:56:33 jdz: ok, good point. 07:56:37 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 07:57:11 but I thought it was bad style to do that kind of thing.. 07:57:25 what, hot loading of patches is a bad style now? 07:58:18 i guess asking the user to restart the world is a good alternative 07:58:39 except it is not 07:58:48 ltriant [~ltriant@124-148-156-67.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:00:04 ZabaQ pasted "Not proud of this" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120158 08:00:15 No, more something like this. 08:01:10 ZabaQ: you know you can use LET in the macro? 08:02:06 Oh, really. Can you use FORMAT, too? :-) 08:02:09 like, (let ((names-sym (symbolicate "*" kind "-NAMES")) ...) `(progn ...)) 08:02:29 instead of repeating the calls to symbolicate all over the place 08:02:59 true, it would look a bit better. 08:03:13 ZabaQ: i'm sorry, i thought you were looking for some advice. my bad, i'm off to do my own coding. 08:03:54 jdz: yes, I was, but more related to compilation. 08:04:24 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442901.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:05:51 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-148-156-67.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:05:59 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-66-2.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:06:48 that macro is evidence of a approach more flawed than the non-use of let 08:07:11 ltriant [~ltriant@124-148-156-67.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:07:47 -!- l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:08:44 given that I need to invoke it only four times, I'm not sure there's any point to it's existence 08:09:41 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440349.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:09:45 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-73-213.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:09:45 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:11:48 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:05 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16:46 ohih0wru [~andrei@87.226.100.170] has joined #lisp 08:17:12 -!- splittist [~splittist@179-178.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 08:17:32 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:18:11 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:19:01 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 08:20:24 splittist [~splittist@179-178.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:20:46 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:21:51 snearch [~snearch@f053006126.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:21:59 jdz: Yes. If I do (concatenate '(vector character) ...) instead it works 08:22:26 marijnjh: notice that (vector character) = string 08:22:32 indeed 08:22:47 pjb: I know... don't ask me. try it for yourself 08:23:20 i seem to remember lispworks being keen on trying to use base-char instead of character wherever possible 08:23:33 probably an optimization-gone-wrong then 08:23:40 except in this case it should not be allowed to (or so i figured) 08:23:43 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:24:51 Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 08:30:16 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:33 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:31:35 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:35:18 -!- The_Fellow1 [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:36:34 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:39:16 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:41:34 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-048-098.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:43:25 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.170.22.189] has joined #lisp 08:43:25 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.170.22.189] has quit [Changing host] 08:43:25 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:45:26 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:46:41 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:53:18 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:54:33 mengu [~Death@unaffiliated/mengu] has joined #lisp 08:54:34 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053006126.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:55:15 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 08:56:24 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:44 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:57:46 nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 09:00:00 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:03 -!- LittleQNCCU [~littleq@dream.cs.nccu.edu.tw] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:00:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:02:38 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:45 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:02:45 gonzojive_ [~red@71.198.7.84] has joined #lisp 09:04:20 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 09:05:44 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:06:36 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 09:10:45 astoon [~astoon@178-16-146-17.obit.ru] has joined #lisp 09:10:56 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:11:12 cmm- [~cmm@109.65.210.248] has joined #lisp 09:11:40 actually there is one bit of lisp terminology I'm not sure about - what does it mean, to "open-code" something? 09:11:47 -!- keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:12:10 Ragnaroek [5b0c3f05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.12.63.5] has joined #lisp 09:12:22 is that a lisp terminology? 09:12:31 ZabaQ: inline 09:12:45 jdz: maybe it's wider terminology, but I've only encountered it in the context of Lisp, so far.. 09:12:56 keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:56 pjb: thx 09:12:59 Actually, it's something even stronger than inline, it's that the compiler can compile specific code replacing a JSR for functions in CL> 09:13:10 Eg. CAR or CDR could be compiled as a simple load. 09:13:14 ZabaQ: well, lisp terminology is in the glossary section of the standard 09:13:50 jdz: you mean the clhs? 09:14:23 ZabaQ: well, clhs is not exactly the standard, but quite close 09:14:32 H4ns```` [~user@p579F8829.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:33 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-203-127.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:17:55 -!- H4ns``` [~user@p579F8F4C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:18:54 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:20:06 chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 09:20:21 Davsebamse [~das@office.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 09:20:32 -!- Davsebamse [~das@office.ipvision.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25:08 Do you sometimes type a symbol-name and wish Slime could automatically look up the package(s) of the symbol and if a single match, prefix the symbol with the package name? 09:25:33 Or is that too sloppy? 09:27:43 chrnybo: you know the symbol name, but not which package it is in? 09:30:18 jdz: Yes, sometimes. Or the symbol name is easy to type, while the package name is longer. 09:30:48 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@71.198.7.84] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 09:33:50 chrnybo: Try fuzzy completion, it's almost like that 09:33:59 try sb:with C-c M-i 09:34:06 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.81] has joined #lisp 09:34:11 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.81] has quit [Changing host] 09:34:11 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:35:39 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-232-247.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:35:42 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-81-190.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:36:21 tcr1: cool, was not aware of that one. (but you still specified the package.) 09:36:59 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:37:55 yeah some substring of it 09:38:31 oh, right 09:38:32 awesome 09:38:51 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:39:15 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-235-109.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:40:34 tcr1: Thanks, will try it out. 09:41:03 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:18 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:33 *chrnybo* customizes slime-complete-symbol-function to "Fuzzy" 09:43:49 mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 09:44:16 Davidbrcz_ [david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:45:07 sunwukong [~vukung@t1.iit.bme.hu] has joined #lisp 09:45:36 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:45:42 :-) 09:48:00 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:35 -!- benny` [~benny@i577A2D4C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:49:41 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.141.236] has joined #lisp 09:51:16 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:51:33 -!- ohih0wru [~andrei@87.226.100.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:02 -!- keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:42 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 09:52:42 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 09:52:42 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 09:53:48 -!- sigjuice_ [~sigjuice@c-71-198-22-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:53:53 keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:17 ZabaQ annotated #120158 "Better approach" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120158#1 09:55:01 tfb [~tfb@92.41.137.93.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:55:23 equal doesn't really make sense for functions 09:55:23 slash_ [~unknown@pD955E63C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:23 or you want them to be named as strings? 09:56:32 alama [~alama@a79-169-94-247.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 09:56:41 stassats: yes, the keys are strings - they have string designators 09:58:34 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.137.93.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 09:59:09 tfb [~tfb@92.41.137.93.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:59:41 update-components, setup-componenents, render-components might be designated by "components" so I can deal with them as a family at a later stage. 10:00:15 -!- Davidbrcz_ [david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:00:52 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:02:50 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@46.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03:08 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-198-22-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:36 stassats: hmm. eq would be ok for keywords instead of strings..might be a better choice 10:05:10 I don't really need the flexibility of strings. 10:05:38 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:06:02 Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-193-53.uio.no] has joined #lisp 10:06:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:07:20 -!- QinGW [~wangqingw@60.247.26.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:32 -!- marijnjh [~user@p5DDB3F62.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 10:08:28 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-232-247.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:03 then why do you need hashtables in the first place? 10:11:24 stassats: so I can set up an alias for the actual function name.. 10:11:48 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:59 and why do you need that? 10:12:12 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.204] has joined #lisp 10:12:43 hello lispers 10:13:09 so if I have a setup function, and init function, a exit function that all apply to one catergory of "things" - say components, I can extract them by a :components alias...or similar.. 10:14:12 -!- Intensity [nUo7ZOsLCG@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:15:03 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:15:44 that sound like OOP to me 10:15:47 *sounds 10:15:55 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-198-22-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:15:59 -!- k9quaint [~quaint@c-98-207-104-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:16:02 defmethod, defgeneric, defclass 10:16:48 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:48 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:17:39 e-user [~akahl@192.100.124.156] has joined #lisp 10:17:44 amb007 [~a_bakic@46.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:36 I need control of the ordering, too, and I've no idea how to hijack the hash function for that..I guess I have to locally bind sxhash 10:20:29 well, with a class hierarchy you have control over the order 10:20:43 I mean calling order.. 10:20:51 yes 10:21:28 ZabaQ: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/object-reorientation-generic-functions.html 10:22:55 MoALTz [~no@92.18.3.201] has joined #lisp 10:23:38 -!- nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:21 nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 10:24:47 -!- nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:25:02 nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 10:25:57 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.3.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:27:41 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:28:43 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:28:51 k9quaint [~quaint@c-98-207-104-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:43 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:31:02 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:33:45 *deepfire* wonders if the discrepancy (failure to parse vs. successful parse) of the same file, by the same version of CXML can be explained by different (1.0.40 vs. 1.0.45) SBCL versions. 10:35:10 Were there any known recent SBCL-vs.-CXML issues? 10:39:13 -!- CallToPower|away [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has left #lisp 10:40:22 CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 10:41:57 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42:06 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:44:27 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.141.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:45:46 flip214: normally I'd agree - but I'm after a data driven approach 10:46:35 filp214: fast lookup isn't that important - an extensible vector of pairs might be the thing 10:47:09 There's the meta-object-protocol ... that's 'data-driven' ;-) 10:47:59 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:48:41 flip214: yes, but I haven't read the art of the meta object protocol, yet 10:48:53 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:48:55 there's mopinfo ... 10:49:08 flip214: whats mopinfo? 10:49:19 Just googling, one moment please 10:49:54 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.141.236] has joined #lisp 10:52:08 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 10:52:51 deepfire: sounds likely -- if it's the only variable it's the only variable 10:53:06 ZabaQ: http://infolab.stanford.edu/~paepcke/shared-documents/mopintro.ps 10:53:08 deepfire: which one fails? 10:54:17 flip214: I'll give that a read, thanks for digging it out 10:54:23 you're welcome 10:57:38 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:38 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-ff2fc100-74.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:58:04 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-148-156-67.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:58:18 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:03:57 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-180-182.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:00 nikodemus, I've updated the failing 1.0.40 to 1.0.46.21, didn't change anything observable. 11:09:18 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:09:51 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:05 deepfire: so 1.0.40 failed, 1.0.45 and 1.0.46.21 don't? 11:11:23 or 1.0.40 and 1.0.46.21 fail but 1.0.45 doesn't? 11:11:43 nikodemus, 1.0.40-debian and 1.0.46.21 fail on one machine, 1.0.45 works on another. 11:12:18 deepfire: can you try 1.0.45 on the machine where the others fail? 11:12:29 Perhaps there's some hidden parameter somewhere on the failing machine. 11:12:33 locale? 11:13:17 en_US.utf8 on the failing machine, ru_RU.UTF-8 on the working one. Testing.. 11:13:28 These were values of LANG. 11:14:27 sb-impl::*default-external-format* ? 11:14:32 Changing the value of LANG on the failing machine didn't change anything observable. 11:15:36 Alright, I've restarted sbcl on the working machine and it began failing the same. 11:16:29 are you 100% sure the xml-file didn't change? 11:16:49 yes, I did md5sum it. 11:17:02 There was no reason to suspect any changes as well. 11:17:16 fair enough. and *default-external-format* is :utf-8 on both machines? 11:17:50 :utf8 on one, :ANSI_X3.4-1968 on another 11:17:59 But they both fail now.. 11:18:19 I've lost capability to reasonably compare things. 11:18:58 deepfire: that sounds like the locale isn't recognized on the one where it's :ANSI_X3.4-1968 -- but i admit i don't think that's too likely to matter 11:19:17 presumably cxml uses the file to decide on the external format, after all 11:19:22 The error message is pretty strange -- it appears to claim that there is a slash where is none. 11:19:51 deepfire: can you send me the file and directions to reproduce? 11:19:51 *where there 11:20:26 nikodemus, thank you very much for your efforts 11:20:30 cf_ [79e896da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.232.150.218] has joined #lisp 11:20:36 looking up your address 11:20:51 nikodemus@random-state.net 11:21:14 Right, composing the email.. 11:21:29 Hello~~ 11:24:23 nikodemus, my qmail logs indicate that your mail server has accepted the message 11:26:43 amaron [~amaron@greenzone.copyleft.no] has joined #lisp 11:27:50 got it, thanks 11:28:39 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28:47 -!- cf_ [79e896da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.232.150.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:33:28 bloody c++ -- I keep autocompleting cons as const 11:33:48 I wish I could have a different .emacs for each language so leakage like that can't happen 11:34:26 uhm 11:34:35 that's what the majormode hooks are for 11:34:50 -!- konr [~user@187.106.35.228] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:35:08 tcr1: probably I have a C++ buffer lying round somewhere or some C++ snippets in my kill ring -- might be picking up that.. 11:35:42 ..possibly I should fix it so slime is my only autocompletion source for lisp 11:35:47 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-180-182.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:36:16 neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-153-203.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:51 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-180-182.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:11 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:43:23 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:43:59 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-153-203.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 11:44:34 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 11:46:07 Davidbrcz_ [david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 11:49:24 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 11:50:24 slash_1 [~unknown@pD955F151.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:15 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955E63C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:54:03 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 11:54:03 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 11:54:04 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 11:55:34 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 11:57:02 Something's pretty weird. 11:57:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-4-155.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:57:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-4-155.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:57:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:57:22 Warning: scientific discovery ahead! 11:57:24 The exact errors depends on whether unrelated libraries are loaded or not. 11:57:54 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 11:58:13 Maybe my perception of absence of relation is lacking, though. 11:58:32 That changes at least the memory mapping. 12:01:01 -!- Davidbrcz_ [david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:01:07 I tracked it down to the difference between running it from bare sbcl and via swank. 12:02:17 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:02:36 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:02:47 Performing the same ASDF component load sequence on the bare SBCL doesn't result in the same error as in the swank/slime case. 12:03:24 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-198-22-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:17 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C8D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@117.28.22.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:07:55 Darn, compiz, gitk and alt+tab -> death to compiz in 10.10. I keep forgetting. 12:08:16 oh, so that's what happened to me yesterday 12:08:53 and that's probably only wihth gitk running with tk8.5, because i did not have this problem before 12:08:59 jdz, they've had the bug on launchpad for hell knows how long. 12:10:37 I don't get it. Now the parse works. 12:11:38 No, it doesn't it was a botched --eval option. 12:13:20 -!- acieroid` is now known as acieroid 12:18:12 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:14 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-94-247.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 12:22:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:24:32 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:48 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:26:32 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-166-94.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:29:13 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:29:56 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 12:30:54 konr [~user@187.106.35.228] has joined #lisp 12:35:32 -!- slash_1 is now known as slash_ 12:39:21 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 12:44:35 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-70-197.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:35 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-147-5.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:32 -!- koollman [~samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:48:45 yakov [~yakov@109.188.176.217] has joined #lisp 12:49:26 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-180-182.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:51:21 koollman [~samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has joined #lisp 12:52:19 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-orssjtvnmtmwnyhg] has left #lisp 12:52:26 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:59 -!- e-user [~akahl@192.100.124.156] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:53:18 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 12:54:41 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:56:33 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:44 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:01:57 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:33 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:04:04 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:35 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 13:04:52 -!- mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-svmyqxwgnhklwepy] has left #lisp 13:06:51 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-193-53.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:10:23 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 13:10:57 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:11 lnostdal: what's the right git repo for aromyxo? 13:11:11 lnostdal: the one i'm using shows no recent updates 13:11:11 ah, github? 13:11:11 *Xach* hmms 13:11:31 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 13:15:23 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:38 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:20:53 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:26:35 -!- rien|home [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 13:28:09 anyone here using XCVB with Quicklisp? 13:31:23 pavs [pavlvs@231.56.143.24.cm.sunflower.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:58 -!- pavlvs327 [pavlvs@231.56.143.24.cm.sunflower.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:01 p_l|backup: doesn't seem likely to me. 13:38:57 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.81] has joined #lisp 13:39:02 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.81] has quit [Changing host] 13:39:02 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:39:10 sellout [~Adium@64.134.240.207] has joined #lisp 13:39:13 heh 13:39:29 well, I'll go with plain old ASDF for now. 13:40:10 -!- nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:26 nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 13:45:15 POASDF 13:46:08 hh 13:46:09 *heh 13:46:42 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 13:49:22 wow, interesting thing found by exploring github: https://github.com/kmi :) 13:49:34 two big AI-related programs in CL :D 13:50:48 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955F151.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 13:51:10 benny [~benny@i577A3CBC.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:51:14 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:35 AI and lisp? that's unthinkable! 13:52:16 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:00 especially this: "build: New install procedure using Quicklisp " is nice, isn't it, Xach? 13:53:55 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.170.43.220] has joined #lisp 13:53:55 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.170.43.220] has quit [Changing host] 13:53:56 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 13:55:29 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:58:24 silenius [~silenus@p5DDBAA4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:49 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:00:05 malky42 [3c32dcf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.60.50.220.244] has joined #lisp 14:00:12 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:00:44 -!- malky42 [3c32dcf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.60.50.220.244] has left #lisp 14:01:14 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-38-142-34.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:28 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:45 alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has joined #lisp 14:03:25 Yes, esepcially when I begin the sinister Phase 2 14:04:14 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:18 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:04:51 It's no coincidence that quicklisp is a ROT13 anagram of I Am Skynet. (Well, modified ROT13) 14:05:18 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:05:42 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:03 The code for that project is unusual. 14:06:29 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:06:47 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:07:06 which project? 14:09:08 irs 14:09:57 i guess it's written by someone with less than 10 years of experience in Lisp. how dare they?! 14:10:16 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 14:10:22 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:10 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:07 There was something in particular I saw a few days ago that looked machine-generated. 14:12:10 *Xach* tries to find it again 14:12:19 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:19 -!- alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:48 stassats: it's alsoabig projct that uses not only Lisp 14:13:43 *Xach* can't find it 14:15:45 Intensity [oMQiEqAd2f@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 14:17:24 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:40 -!- yakov [~yakov@109.188.176.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:07 yakov [~yakov@109.188.176.217] has joined #lisp 14:18:35 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 14:20:30 -!- rien|work [~user@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:21 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:22:23 -!- yakov [~yakov@109.188.176.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:57 yakov [~yakov@109.188.176.217] has joined #lisp 14:22:58 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:09 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:41 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:51 jweiss__ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:20 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756051.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:50 pluto12345 [~carcola@unaffiliated/pluto12345] has joined #lisp 14:27:42 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:28:48 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:25 how much of the mop is part of the standard? I can't find things like class-direct-slots in the clhs 14:31:41 none. 14:32:01 ZabaQ: MOP isn't part of ANSI CL itself (other than some parts that are needed by CLOS anyway, afaik), but it's an unofficial standard. Use closer-mop to bridge possible differences 14:32:43 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:43 myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:33:02 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:21 closer-mop it is 14:34:51 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.81] has joined #lisp 14:34:55 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.81] has quit [Changing host] 14:34:55 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:36:38 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:37:22 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has left #lisp 14:39:27 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.216.32] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:27 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:44 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:58 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:44:42 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:45:26 -!- jweiss__ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:45:42 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 14:46:35 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:34 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:54 -!- myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:36 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.190.5] has joined #lisp 14:57:53 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp_] 14:58:58 hlavaty`` [~user@95-88-27-234-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:59:49 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 15:00:24 -!- pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:00:28 pattern [~pattern@ool-45715287.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:59 -!- hlavaty` [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:01:24 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.190.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:35 attila_lendvai, therep 15:01:46 deepfire: hi 15:01:51 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffebce.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 15:02:17 attila_lendvai, hellO! 15:02:41 Xach: have you considered a way to include prebuilt binaries in quicklisp? Like prebuilt DLLs for win32 15:02:54 attila_lendvai, I'm trying to obtain hu.dwim.serializer, but git says that the http://dwim.hu/live/hu.dwim.serializer/ URL is not a good one 15:03:09 deepfire: you mean darcs? 15:03:20 Oh, hm. 15:03:24 deepfire: hu.dwim runs ondarcs 15:03:33 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:03:44 http://dwim.hu/project/hu.dwim.serializer?_x=pIbB&_f=UCZQxVdm looks like a gitweb page 15:04:10 ..which is what confused me. 15:04:11 urandom__ [~user@p548A557D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:38 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 15:04:58 dunno how, since it doesn't look like anything to me (a common situation with dwim.hu website) 15:05:00 deepfire: I guess gitweb was based on darcsweb. we're still sticking to darcs because its internal model is closer to us than git 15:05:33 p_l|backup: yes, I have. 15:05:33 deepfire: it's gitweb that copied the looks of darcsweb, not the opposite 15:05:42 I see : -) 15:05:52 dwim.hu is the result of a few days... not something I'm proud of... 15:06:41 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:06:47 cl-store errs with new SBCL, and appears unmaintained, so I'm jumping ship. 15:07:58 deepfire: works for me on 1.0.46+ 15:08:04 deepfire: what error do you get? 15:08:16 Xach, I can't even load it, 1.0.46.21 15:09:16 _deepfire pasted "CL-STORE failure on SBCL 1.0.46.21" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120170 15:09:25 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:52 lemoinem [~swoog@119-73-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:53 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12:05 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-khmlmqqheuvgsycw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:12:27 deepfire: interesting. i'm on .17. i'll try with .21 or whatever the newest is. 15:12:56 Maybe it's a regression in sbcl. 15:14:59 seems more like cl-store is using internals :-) 15:15:44 Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-193-53.uio.no] has joined #lisp 15:18:54 Can't it be both? 15:19:34 It's probably a regression in internal-. 15:19:37 internals. 15:22:22 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:27 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 15:22:48 deepfire: I still can't reproduce on 1.0.46.21. 15:23:06 deepfire: I wonder if you have some other environmental issue, like bad fasls or something. 15:23:11 christoph [~user@oteiza.siccegge.de] has joined #lisp 15:23:30 xan_ [~xan@86.57.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:23:33 hmmm I'm having trouble building ecl doc -> http://paste.debian.net/109466/ 15:25:12 Xach, doesn't asdf2 sort of prevent that, by separating fasls into per-implXarchXversion directories? 15:25:41 deepfire: Maybe. Hence "or something". I wonder what's different between your setup and my setup where yours fails and mine doesn't. 15:26:00 Are you on AMD64? 15:26:04 Yeah. 15:26:11 Me too. 15:26:59 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-ff2fc100-74.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:27:26 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-247.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:27:30 Heh, now I cannot load it on SBCL 1.0.45.13, on another machine. 15:27:35 Same error. 15:27:44 AMD64 likewise. 15:27:46 deepfire: I see this error with 0.8.10 but not with the version from darcs 15:29:02 Ah yes. I'm using darcs cl-store. 15:29:03 Alright, I'm still using a 2007-era cl-store from CVS. 15:29:18 *Xach* should have thought about that 15:29:30 Of course you don't use the Quicklisp version :) 15:29:44 I use desire to maintain my packages : -) 15:29:49 myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 15:29:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:30:09 I didn't seep through the upstreams for a while already. 15:31:29 MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.73.233] has joined #lisp 15:32:38 |nix| [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:21 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.3.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:35:37 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:35:59 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:37 leo2007 [~leo@222.77.104.232] has joined #lisp 15:38:09 Alright, the new cl-store works indeed. 15:39:00 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:39:42 Interesting, loading a 2007-cl-store file with a 2010 cl-store didn't signal any conditions. 15:39:58 -!- hlavaty`` [~user@95-88-27-234-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:41:45 yakov__ [~yakov@109.188.162.201] has joined #lisp 15:42:34 -!- Spion__ [~spion@77.29.250.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:42:46 Liera [~user@123.20.52.228] has joined #lisp 15:43:03 -!- sellout [~Adium@64.134.240.207] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:44:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-176.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:44:22 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:44:55 deepfire: backward compatible? 15:45:04 or did the right data actually come out the other end? :) 15:45:18 rsynnott, it appears to be compatible, yes 15:45:24 -!- yakov [~yakov@109.188.176.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:45:31 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 15:45:50 At least my algorithms seemed to accept the data.. 15:46:28 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 15:47:54 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has left #lisp 15:49:24 pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@77.109.100.142] has joined #lisp 15:53:03 -!- xan_ [~xan@86.57.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:53:08 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:54:55 Xach, I've took your idea of using a single linearised source file for bootstrapping btw. 15:55:08 xan_ [~xan@194.231.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:55:32 I've also managed to automate it, although in a currently unportable manner. 15:56:06 Automate producing the single source file? 15:56:09 Therefore desire no longer uses a shell script for bootstrap, which was a portability nightmare. 15:56:12 Xach, yes 15:56:30 A lot of the things I use to produce data and other things for Quicklisp are sbcl-only. 15:56:39 Where is the desire bootstrap file? 15:56:46 brnhack [~hrk@ntsitm052013.sitm.nt.ngn.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:57:23 http://feelingofgreen.ru/shared/src/.meta/self.lisp 15:57:53 That is quite a file! 15:58:12 -!- brnhack [~hrk@ntsitm052013.sitm.nt.ngn.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 15:58:13 yeah, there is that.. 15:59:42 Rukowen [~Rukowen@222.253.101.248] has joined #lisp 15:59:51 -!- Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 16:00:21 It's currently broken. Heavy changes are all over the place and I don't have time to keep it stable. 16:02:40 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756051.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:25 On what CLs is it meant to work? 16:04:19 -!- mengu [~Death@unaffiliated/mengu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:38 Currently only SBCL. The user-oriented part of desire is very dependent on the implementation for providing a proper RUN-PROGRAM. I plan to change that, once I get to it. 16:04:59 At some point it worked with CCL, and, to a certain extent, ECL. 16:05:33 "it" being the user delivery part, not the gate (conversion) part. 16:06:31 I've even got a VM farm set up for the purpose of testing desire and Lisp software in general, using desire's buildbot. 16:06:53 Bronsa [~brace@host235-175-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:06:56 Nothing of this works anymore, due to the aforementioned changes. 16:09:43 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:27 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:10:37 Areil [~Areil@123.20.52.228] has joined #lisp 16:11:15 EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:36 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5B32713D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:40 gz [~gz@173-9-73-206-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:04 sellout [~Adium@173-9-73-206-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:30 -!- sellout is now known as Guest74840 16:15:57 -!- keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:16:08 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5B327B10.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:16:11 -!- Guest74840 is now known as sellout_ 16:16:28 The buildbot was fun, while it worked. The gentle churn of various upstreams being polled for changes.. 16:18:01 -!- gz [~gz@173-9-73-206-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 16:20:47 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 16:21:25 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-ekddvactluzwrpei] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:21:49 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:56 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-ntezqwzoodfklcfy] has joined #lisp 16:22:00 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-wiqzkfyqcptbhpsu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:06 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-ierrjfkqvbzjoxnv] has joined #lisp 16:26:36 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:27:40 hello lispers! 16:27:47 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756051.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:55 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:27:57 Hello lisper. 16:28:17 <|nix|> hi mon_key pjb 16:29:10 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@t1.iit.bme.hu] has quit [Quit: bye] 16:29:12 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-76-101-191-198.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:38 |nix|: mon_key's a lisper. 16:30:21 Maybe I'm leaving the ranks of noobage :) 16:30:27 <|nix|> :) 16:35:12 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-131-61.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:17 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-131-61.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 16:35:26 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-131-61.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:46 keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:32 morning 16:40:53 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-245-62-252.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:15 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.141.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:41 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 16:47:32 Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@222.253.101.248] has joined #lisp 16:47:53 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483C8D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:19 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:19 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C8D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:19 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:19 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:19 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 16:49:19 mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 16:49:20 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:49:53 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@222.253.101.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:50:06 -!- |nix| [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:06 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 16:50:26 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-193-53.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:51:54 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:18 I wonder if slime really needs to yellow-underscore toplevels which were merely redefined. 16:54:22 slime doesn't really need anything 16:54:22 it does what it's told to do by the compiler 16:55:46 _pearle_ [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 16:56:40 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:56:45 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-76-101-191-198.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:52 -!- pavs [pavlvs@231.56.143.24.cm.sunflower.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:52 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:52 -!- spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:54 spiaggia` [~user@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 16:56:57 pavs [pavlvs@231.56.143.24.cm.sunflower.com] has joined #lisp 16:57:13 -!- yakov__ [~yakov@109.188.162.201] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:17 I've a question about slime/slime-inspector. I've pasted it here http://paste.lisp.org/+2KQ5 16:57:18 mon_key pasted "*slime-inspector* [set value] and current package not in synch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120173 16:57:22 -!- Intensity [oMQiEqAd2f@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:36 psilord1 [~psilord@76.201.144.30] has joined #lisp 16:57:42 yakov__ [~yakov@109.188.162.201] has joined #lisp 16:58:45 because it's a bug? 16:59:01 Is it? 16:59:12 -!- pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:59:44 i have no time to answer this 16:59:47 -!- sellout_ [~Adium@173-9-73-206-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:59:50 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 17:00:13 -!- Liera [~user@123.20.52.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:49 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:51 The question is "has/does this happen for anyone else" not, "Hey stassats adress mon_key's needs" 17:01:15 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-209-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:15 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-209-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:01:15 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 17:01:16 stassats, man, you've got an attitude, should I say.. 17:01:29 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:01:31 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:01:37 EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:50 -!- keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:50 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:57 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:02:07 mon_key: i have no time to test it or fix it 17:02:09 It's not like what I said wasn't perfectly clear, either, so.. 17:02:28 Sometimes one may not have the time. 17:02:34 It happens all the time. 17:02:35 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 17:02:44 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@119-73-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:52 Liera [~user@123.20.52.228] has joined #lisp 17:02:55 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:03:17 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Client Quit] 17:03:31 -!- Areil [~Areil@123.20.52.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03:31 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:05:42 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.204] has joined #lisp 17:05:43 yay. the sleep on it trick worked again. 17:05:50 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.77.15] has joined #lisp 17:05:52 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-243.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:06:01 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:26 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:07:28 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:07:31 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:32 i find that trick works more often than not. 17:07:54 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:08:11 cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 17:09:16 pjb: stassats`: I don't want to report it as a bug if its not and instead I am the one in error, I don't think that would be productive for anyone to report non-bugs... if it is a known bug then it prob. won't help if i report it. However, if the consensus is that it is prob. a but I am glad to report it as such and change my interaction with slime to accomodate it. 17:09:26 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 17:09:39 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 17:10:19 there is no harm in reporting bugs which could eventually turn out to be not 17:11:01 OK. I will report it to launchpad and slime-devel. 17:12:57 beach: around? 17:13:58 rien|home [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 17:14:33 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:14:45 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:21:06 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-81-190.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:22:04 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.81.190] has joined #lisp 17:22:27 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.81.190] has quit [Client Quit] 17:24:09 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:25:23 -!- xan_ [~xan@194.231.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:26:06 -!- Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@222.253.101.248] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:26:18 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:26:30 xan_ [~xan@241.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:27:11 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 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always happening in the COMMON-LISP-USER package, happen{s|ed} in some other situations, like in the SLDB buffer 18:13:44 Xantoz_ [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:14:35 MoALTz [~no@92.18.73.233] has joined #lisp 18:14:52 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:56 it's not obvious how to handle this issue, but probably inherit the current package from the current lisp/repl buffer. however, in the SLDB buffer, cl:*package* may be rebound in any frame, so eval'ing an exp there could depend on the frame below the cursor 18:15:08 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:15:37 -!- myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:15:37 -!- jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:15:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-176.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:15:38 -!- Xantoz 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timeout: 250 seconds] 18:18:16 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 18:18:25 -!- xristos is now known as Guest48342 18:18:32 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:35 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 18:18:48 azaq23 [~derivecto@p4FF68FA2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:18:48 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 18:18:48 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@p4FF68FA2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 18:18:48 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 18:18:49 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 18:21:12 splittist2 [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:21:33 -!- pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@77.109.100.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:21:53 pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@77.109.100.142] has joined #lisp 18:22:16 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:32 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:22:33 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:43 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host235-175-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:22:43 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:22:43 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:22:58 Bronsa [~brace@host235-175-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:23:00 -!- reb` [~user@nat/google/x-wqxoqhsulzuzlcie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:08 i don't know why I had never bothered to read it before, but I gotta say "The Little Schemer" is a pretty great little book, even for a seasoned programmer. Would anyone recommend it to someone completely new to programming? 18:23:09 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 18:23:18 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23:18 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23:18 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23:18 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23:42 -!- spiaggia` [~user@113.161.72.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:45 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:46 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@2a01:4f8:101:4221::2] has joined #lisp 18:23:48 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:23:53 -!- christoph [~user@oteiza.siccegge.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23:53 -!- fe[nl]ix 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[~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 18:26:20 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-ff2fc100-74.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:27:09 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 18:27:20 j_king: no, because it's about Scheme! 18:28:52 -!- jamief [~user@158.223.51.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:52 -!- ejohnson [~elliott@elliottjohnson.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:52 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:52 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@68.38.142.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:52 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:52 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:52 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:52 -!- Liera [~user@123.20.52.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:52 -!- 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zakwilson_ is now known as zakwilson 18:51:34 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 18:51:51 j_king: I would recommand The Little Schemer. I had fun with it when it was called The Little Lisper. 18:52:06 -!- _dralston_ [~dralston@174.1.92.214] has quit [Client Quit] 18:52:37 j_king: now, of course, it's rather "preliminary". To study programming, a next book would definitely be sicp, and then you would still have to learn Common Lisp, but there are a lot of books and tutorials for CL> 18:53:55 yakov [~yakov@109.188.162.201] has joined #lisp 18:54:29 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:54:36 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:54:55 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:55:00 pjb: thanks. 18:55:29 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:55:35 Man. #| |# really mess with emacs. 18:55:47 -!- pok [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:55:47 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@static.205.131.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:55:47 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:55:47 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:56:00 pjb: A friend of mine is interested in learning as a hobby and I've been using Python... and it hasn't really stuck. 18:56:09 GeneralMaximus [~general@122.163.238.87] has joined #lisp 18:56:13 -!- yakov__ [~yakov@109.188.162.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:56:13 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:56:13 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:56:13 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:56:34 sykopomp: yeah - indent all defun-type lines at least one space to avoid the worst. 18:56:39 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:56:39 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.77.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:56:39 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:56:39 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.147.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:56:39 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:56:57 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 18:57:33 sykopomp: you may have more success with #|| ||# 18:57:36 Pepe_ [~ppjet@static.205.131.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 18:57:56 pok [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 18:58:03 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 18:58:05 pjb: is that an Emacs specific variant? 18:58:17 carlocci [~nes@93.37.200.182] has joined #lisp 18:58:23 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:05 ehu: yes, Emacs will interpret | ... | inside #| |# as an multi-escaped symbol If you use #|| ||# it will consider the comment to be code. 18:59:13 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 18:59:41 j_king: however, for a hobbyist, Common Lisp has the great advantage that if you leave it, and come back a few months later (possibly with another implementation) then all you've learned will still be good, because it's standardized with a larger standard library. 19:00:31 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 19:01:01 j_king: I had difficulties learning scheme, because every time I came back to it, it was another standard (r3rs, r4rs, r5rs, the very same day r6rs was issued, they started to work on r7rs), and since up to r6rs, the standard was very small, each implementation had very implementation specific extensions, so your old code could never work on the new scheme. 19:01:20 pjb: I understand. That was sort of what I was curious about with introducing it to a complete programming newbie. Scheme -> CL might be too big a leap early on.. but the way it builds on fundamental concepts is really the best I've encountered IMO 19:01:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-4-155.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 19:01:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-4-155.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 19:01:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:01:27 j_king: even to learn scheme you have to be very careful to use the same standard and the same implementation as the scheme that's taught by the given book. 19:02:07 pjb: the way TLC builds on those concepts mind you, not scheme. ;) 19:02:12 j_king: as an initiation however, I'd still advise The Little Schemer, and SICP is not about scheme, (it just uses it for the examples) but about programming in general. 19:02:24 *j_king* nods. 19:02:35 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:02:38 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:02 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:12 minion: tell j_king about gentle 19:03:12 j_king: have a look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 19:03:23 j_king: for programmer newbies, there's also this book. 19:03:31 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:03:39 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-64-168.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:03:57 pjb: cheers 19:04:04 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-64-168.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 19:06:54 -!- konr` [~user@187.106.35.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:08:06 tr3x [~tr3x@78-0-222-47.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:08:30 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 19:08:54 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:09:12 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 19:09:21 drks [~4e00de2f@ns1.smartcall.bg] has joined #lisp 19:09:25 hi 19:09:26 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 19:09:42 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 19:11:22 i'm trying to figure out what makes lisp macros special. can someone give me an example of some repetitive task that Lisp macros could solve better than a simple loop in C++? 19:11:53 drks: you're comparing wrong stuff 19:12:01 you should compare macros and templates 19:12:05 drks: macros are helpful for abstracting syntax. 19:12:10 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:27 Xach can you give me an example where they could be useful 19:12:36 drks: you should compare the source of a loop macro with the source of boost::foreach. 19:12:51 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.112] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:13:02 drks: it's not that they're useful, it's that they're trivial to write, compared to templates. 19:13:25 ok I see 19:13:53 drks: basically, macros allow you to transform the code in various ways. There are also compiler-macros which allow you to add various kinds of optimalizations, and reader-macros that operate on data/code being read before it is fully parsed 19:14:03 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:14:26 minion: tell drks about spels. 19:14:27 drks: direct your attention towards spels: Casting SPELs in Lisp, an introduction to macros, is at http://www.lisperati.com/casting.html 19:15:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:15:53 -!- HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-170-204.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:16:04 drks: https://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/86cf454beb8a42f9?&noredirect is an article (partly) about macros that I quite enjoyed 19:16:25 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:16:59 thanks! I'll read both links 19:18:37 amb007 [~a_bakic@46.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:38 nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:18:44 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:28 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:34 oconnore [~eric@209.172.228.55] has joined #lisp 19:21:31 astoon [~astoon@94.25.196.147] has joined #lisp 19:21:38 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:23:26 alama [~alama@a79-169-94-247.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 19:24:11 jdz pasted "CLOS weirdness" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120179 19:24:48 wow, pastebot works 19:25:10 anyway, nikodemus or anybody else interested -- my code does not work in recent SBCL 19:25:12 sylecn [sylecn@greed.cs.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 19:25:30 as always i'm starting my troubleshooting here 19:26:11 yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.112] has joined #lisp 19:26:33 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.112] has quit [Client Quit] 19:28:51 bah, must be wrong timezone and everybody's asleep already 19:29:53 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 2.1b2pre/20101206220131]] 19:30:39 oh well, off to the launchpad i shall go 19:31:54 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-14-244.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:31:55 Atomsk [~ace4016@adsl-32-14-244.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:05 -!- Areil [~Areil@123.20.52.228] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33:27 I'm awake, but unmotivated. Sorry. 19:33:58 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 19:34:17 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:34 Xach: well, you could just try checking if you get the error, too 19:34:57 Xach: but i'm cerating a ticket in launchpad, anyway 19:36:20 davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:38 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 19:37:18 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:37:39 jdz: I also get the error in SBCL. (But not in Allegro or CLISP.) 19:38:00 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.159.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:55 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.159.189] has joined #lisp 19:38:56 Xach: yeah, and i did not get the error until recently; there were some make-instance changes/optimizations 19:40:07 the optimisations depend on using the MOP as specified in the text, but it looked like they could fail silently if you do not. 19:41:44 well, this bug seems to be really bad 19:42:12 like, initargs for different invocations of make-instance overriding each other or something 19:42:33 -!- sylecn [sylecn@greed.cs.utexas.edu] has left #lisp 19:43:29 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 19:46:31 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:48:24 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-243.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:48:31 -!- nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:48:53 keyvan-mac [~keyvan@137.164.79.11] has joined #lisp 19:50:58 jwise [~user@173-14-157-193-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:25 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:57:24 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:57:48 christoph [~user@oteiza.siccegge.de] has joined #lisp 19:58:15 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:58:22 jdz: is it a post-1.0.46 problem? 19:58:23 Xach: I know about the security concerns and that you'll be offering https:// support; I merely added the remark because earlier posts had triggered unrelated discussions; I wanted to prevent that this time. Thanks for adding the comment though. 19:58:45 -!- dlowe_ [~dlowe@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:59:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-176.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:00:34 You never know when pjb the prankster is going to delete your filesystem. 20:01:41 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:02:13 :-) personally, I think the security concerns really matter very little: loads of people will just load code from a tar without doing an audit either. 20:03:09 I'd like to have a good story for it anyway, so I hope ssl and pgp will help. 20:03:35 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:03:37 -!- GeneralMaximus [~general@122.163.238.87] has quit [Quit: And we said: look at that fucker dance.] 20:04:01 absolutely agreed. the security minded are a very vocal minority. better have a good answer. Will you code the pgp algorithms yourself? 20:04:04 Xach: well, i'm not sure about the exact version; before my current version i think i was running 1.0.45.something 20:04:10 or will you start depending on pgp? 20:04:57 -!- astoon [~astoon@94.25.196.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:05:35 ehu: the pgp algorithms are pretty straightforward (yay for bignums), but processing the file formats is a little annoying. 20:05:41 ehu: i intend to do it all in lisp. 20:05:51 nice! 20:05:54 thanks! 20:05:59 one problem so far is slow performance for crypto hash algorithms. 20:06:08 clisp is terrible at it. 20:06:09 especially on ABCL. 20:06:15 not ABCL? 20:06:23 i don't remember how abcl did. probably not good either. :) 20:06:45 its just how a lispdoes in general in math 20:07:15 its just how a lisp does in general in math.. though tehcically if you able to hit the JRE stuff ABCL might actualyl be the fastest ;\ 20:07:28 dmiles_afk: SBCL does pretty well. 20:07:41 well as fast as SBCL does at best 20:08:22 Just don't start writing *encryption* routines yourself. It's pretty much guaranteed you'll expose the private key. :P 20:08:39 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3657.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:42 Wasn't there a project that provided some crypto? 20:09:08 Odin-: Are you thinking of froydnj's Ironclad? 20:09:09 urandom__ [~user@p548A3657.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:22 redline6561: Might be. 20:09:55 Probably, yes. 20:10:10 ehu: woul;d be a nice benchmark to put into the regression test suite for ABCL 20:10:12 Odin-: Probably is. It's the defacto thing and there isn't much other lisp cryptoware I'm aware of. 20:10:12 Argh I'm confused again.. what is the cffi equivalent to struct foo *f = malloc(sizeof(struct foo)); quux(f, 1, 2); ? 20:10:35 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:47 dmiles_afk: you mean Ironclad's routines (test suite if it has one)? Yea. indeed. 20:11:01 sellout [~Adium@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:11 -!- tcr1 is now known as tcr 20:11:27 -!- sellout is now known as Guest71084 20:11:42 there are few other projects/libraries that deal with crypto, there's md5 lib and ISAAC (dunno if it implements ISAAC64 or only the 32bit variant, though) 20:12:13 ehu: the crypto hash algorithm 20:12:55 gz_ [~gz@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:56 gabnet [~gabnet@252.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:09 hm ok foreign-alloc seems to return a pointer so I guess it's the obvious 20:13:36 (cffi:with-foreign-object (ptr 'foo) (foreign-funcall "quux" :pointer f :int 1 :int 2 )) 20:13:38 Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:08 oh, f not ptr 20:14:29 I don't want dx 20:17:03 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:17:55 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:18:10 astoon [~astoon@94.25.196.147] has joined #lisp 20:18:17 -!- gz_ [~gz@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 20:18:55 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19:48 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-93-174-55.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:20 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:21:49 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 20:22:10 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:26:10 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-140.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:26:17 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:29:27 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:30:25 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:10 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:31:22 wanderingelf [4817e03a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.58] has joined #lisp 20:31:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-208-157.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:31:49 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:34:53 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:35:12 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:35:51 is anyone using the UUID library? 20:36:55 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:10 carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 20:44:15 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:45:16 -!- davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:33 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:45:41 -!- Guest71084 is now known as sellout_ 20:47:01 lanthan [~ze@p54B7C1FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:22 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:47:46 -!- Athas` [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:47 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.159.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:04 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7C1FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:48:08 -!- sellout_ [~Adium@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:48:10 francogrex [~user@109.130.117.153] has joined #lisp 20:48:15 jdz: did you make that launchpad bug yet? 20:48:24 jdz: I have it bisected to a commit. 20:48:25 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:48:42 (almost) 20:48:55 -!- Faed is now known as Fade 20:49:28 -!- keyvan-mac [~keyvan@137.164.79.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:50 lanthan [~ze@p54B7C1FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:23 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:52:59 Xach: yeah, https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/728650 20:54:19 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:55:42 jdz: added to it 20:56:00 the commit message looks like a smoking gun 21:00:06 guess it's about 9pm in northern europe. 21:00:36 2200 21:00:40 astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-41-181.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 21:00:52 Xach: cool, thanks. that should help find the cause. 21:01:52 Fade: depends on how far north you go, i suppose. 21:02:52 maybe nikodemus hasn't disappeared for the evening yet. 21:02:56 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:03:46 Hmm...I gotta say, quicklisp is nice. First time using it , today, for osicat since asdf-install was giving me issues 21:03:52 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 21:04:16 Hope you find it useful. 21:04:51 well, happy fat thursday to all. 21:05:26 I found a few issues that I'm not sure what was the deal. I had a partial install of osicat, but trying to load it, it gave me issues that trivial-features wasn't installed, which it wasn't - but wouldn't automatically install it. 21:05:59 TDT: (ql:quickload "osicat") did not automatically install everything it needed? 21:06:02 I had to do a ql:system-apropos on trivial-features before osicat 21:06:05 nope 21:06:08 not for me anywyas 21:06:12 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffebce.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:06:38 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:07:02 I even went into .sbcl/site and .sbcl/systems and removed all things to do with osicat/trivial-features/etc before trying again, and it still didn't. QL handled the other dependencies well, though. 21:07:31 TDT: what does (asdf:system-source-directory "osicat") tell you? 21:08:52 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffebce.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 21:09:15 TDT pasted "asdf:system-source-directory" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120181 21:10:24 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:11:09 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:11 TDT: Did you restart after removing all the osicat stuff from ~/.sbcl/? 21:11:18 *nods* yep 21:11:42 I'll another system, I need this on more than one system to see if it's an issue there. One sec. 21:12:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-140.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:12:30 konr [~user@187.106.35.228] has joined #lisp 21:12:31 TDT: The issue is that if you have existing stuff visible via asdf, it will be loaded in preference to anything in Quicklisp, but Quicklisp does wrap things with an auto-install hook for the missing component error. However, some projects require supporting libraries (like osicat) at system *definition* time, so they can use special stuff in their defsystem forms, and that error doesn't get caught and autoloaded. 21:13:31 *Xach* will think about how that can be remedied sometime 21:15:09 TDT: what are you using osicat for? 21:16:10 weird, just did it again and it ran just fine. 21:16:36 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:16:37 Using osicat for a script to check for binary files and make symlinks into the correct directory. 21:16:44 TDT: I suspect if you delete ~/quicklisp and reinstall things will work fine. 21:16:56 A now-deleted vestige caused the problem before, I suspect. 21:16:58 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:17:09 yeah, i got it working fine already - installed osicat on 2 systems, and it appears to work just fine. 21:21:09 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:35 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:57 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:22:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:08 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:26 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 21:24:39 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-4-155.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 21:26:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-4-155.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 21:26:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:27:45 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:19 sellout [~Adium@18.111.56.248] has joined #lisp 21:30:52 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:31:45 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:50 carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 21:33:51 -!- astoon [~astoon@94.25.196.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:13 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host235-175-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:37:33 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.117.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:47 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 21:44:48 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 21:44:48 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 21:45:40 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:47:32 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 21:48:13 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@252.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:49:22 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:25 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:59 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 21:54:28 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:55:26 Good morning everyone! 21:56:02 -!- oconnore [~eric@209.172.228.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:56:32 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:57:02 preyalone [81aebe65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.101] has joined #lisp 21:57:08 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:11 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:57:12 davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:42 How can I tell CL to ignore multiline comments in the form #| ...... |# ? 21:59:52 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:00:17 preyalone: What do you mean? They should be ignored. 22:01:31 rtoym: Many CL implementations fail to compile code with normal #! shebangs, nevermind multiline shell comments. 22:01:37 CLISP in particular. 22:02:03 #| |# is a CL comment 22:02:35 it's always able to span multiple lines. What does that have to do with a shell? 22:02:40 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:56 *rtoym* is confused on what preyalone wants. 22:03:16 all: CLISP does not handle #|. I have to manually create a dispatch macro. 22:03:25 afternoon 22:03:40 #| is not the same as #! 22:03:45 right. 22:03:47 hey slyrus 22:04:06 clisp handles #| just fine. 22:04:21 beach: discrete-convolution now works well 22:04:23 Sorry for the confusion, it makes little difference whether #| ... |# is a bash comment, or as you corrected me, a CL comment. CLISP vomits when it reads them. 22:04:34 No, it doesn't. 22:04:55 slyrus: Neat! Using some kind of transform? 22:05:06 MacPorts CLISP does. 22:05:23 keyvan-mac [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:23 that seems very unlikely that a mac port of CLISP could break that 22:05:34 beach: transform? not exactly. 22:05:40 foom: MacPorts CLISP is missing CFFI and threads, but that's another story. 22:05:54 indeed. those are platform-specific. 22:05:59 preyalone: What version of clisp? 22:06:06 rtoym: Put #| ... |# in a .lisp file and try to (load) it in CLISP. 22:06:10 That might make a difference. 22:06:12 v2.49 22:07:18 preyalone: Works for me. 22:07:33 rtoym: Which OS? 22:07:52 Mac OSX, with a version I built myself. 22:08:11 And clisp 2.49 22:08:12 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3657.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:13 next item on the list: go to ##c and suggest that gcc doesn't support /* */ 22:08:28 rtoym: Can you pastebin your .clisprc? 22:08:32 maybe you accidentally built it for ebcdic. 22:08:36 try {j@KKK@j{% instead 22:08:50 lichtblau: MacPorts gcc probably doesn't :) 22:08:59 preyalone: I have no clisprc. 22:09:17 Xach: astalla might have just identified the regression I was trying to. If that's true, we'll have a new release soonish. 22:09:33 preyalone: But your LANG environment have some bearing. 22:09:41 hmm 22:10:15 variable LANGUAGE-INFORMATION has no value 22:10:44 What? 22:11:03 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 22:11:05 That's what CLISP returns. 22:11:27 No. Why are you looking for language-information? 22:11:50 It's a function. (Didn't know that existed.) 22:12:02 haha. my bad. 22:12:13 That's the problem with Lisp-2s. 22:12:35 -!- jdz [~jdz@host172-17-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12:50 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:52 Anyway, I don't know what you're doing, but clisp handles #| comments just fine. 22:13:01 rtoym: What should I look for in (language-information)? http://pastebin.com/AN0EKwHh 22:13:55 I meant the shell LANG environment variable. And perhaps the encoding you used for the file. I don't know what the default encoding clisp uses for loading files. 22:14:14 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-94-247.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 22:14:32 $LANG = en_US.UTF-8 22:14:36 -!- Ragnaroek [5b0c3f05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.12.63.5] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:15:20 My Lisp code uses LF line endings and UTF8 file encoding. 22:15:32 Well, then I'd od -c your file and make sure it has what you think it has. 22:16:17 that's a nifty utility. http://pastebin.com/AgNiV74X 22:16:43 CLISP says *** - PEEK-CHAR: Invalid byte sequence #xCF #xFA in CHARSET:UTF-8 conversion 22:17:26 Well, there you go. The file you're loading is not valid utf-8. 22:18:37 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-76-101-191-198.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:18:38 someone should make source file charset sniffing a "standard" CL feature, like python. 22:18:56 rtoym: http://pastebin.com/JFcJKbe2 22:19:49 Sorry. You get to figure out what's wrong with that. 22:19:58 jonathans [~jonathans@38.96.178.178] has joined #lisp 22:20:19 foom: or just mandate utf-8 everywhere 22:20:24 -!- jonathans is now known as Guest93444 22:21:03 fe[nl]ix: okay. Source files are always UTF-8. Makes sense to me. 22:21:10 fe[nl]ix: even better. :) 22:21:46 that'll make you lose marketshare to ruby's support for CJK encodings. 22:21:51 hahaha 22:22:14 preyalone_ [81aebe65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.101] has joined #lisp 22:22:20 I found the problem! 22:22:20 you can still support other encodings if you like, but nobody really needs to write their source code in them. 22:22:26 And it's not CLISP! 22:22:56 oconnore [~eric@209.172.228.55] has joined #lisp 22:23:35 My current directory is full of cross-language programs. Hello Worlds of sorts. I've got hello.c and hello.lisp. (load "hello") was trying to load the C hello binary, instead of hello.lisp. 22:23:39 -!- preyalone [81aebe65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:24:09 Haha! 22:24:40 So now I'm going through all my .lisp code, adding the proper extension to all (load)s. 22:25:06 MacPorts CLISP has two known bugs, so I just figured this was one of them. Nope. 22:25:44 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-247.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:26:02 pro tip: if you think you stumbled upon a bug in someone else's code that's used by thousands of other people, you're probably wrong. 22:26:33 pkhuong: My second mistake was thinking #| |# was a multiline bash comment, which would have explained why CLISP didn't have the syntax for it. 22:27:07 I even hacked a macro for CLISP to skip those comments. Oy. 22:27:48 pkhuong: Also, earlier today I was on #scheme of all places, resolving a deep bug in SBCL on Xen hosts. 22:28:48 -!- qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:49 preyalone_: it's a bug in Xen. 22:28:58 wait, clisp tries to load $name.c files as lisp code? 22:29:01 why would it do that? 22:29:04 foom: No. 22:29:06 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:25 foom: I gcc -o hello.c, then did (load "hello") in CL, thinking it would look for hello.lisp 22:29:30 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:29:35 oh, okay. that makes sense. :) 22:29:43 -!- Guest93444 [~jonathans@38.96.178.178] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:29:50 pkhuong: SBCL apparently tries to load 9G of virtual memory on Xen. 22:30:00 preyalone_: that's not a bug. 22:30:05 qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has joined #lisp 22:30:23 And that's independent from the issue with some versions of Xen and threads. 22:30:24 When I "sudo apt-get install sbcl" on Xen, I get a compilation error: CATS ARE NICE. 22:30:32 that's not a compilation error. 22:30:41 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 22:30:41 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 22:31:10 pkhuong: Ah. 22:31:12 I'm observing a tendency with ill-advised assertions here. 22:31:28 -!- keyvan-mac [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:31:37 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:31:41 I am a Lisp noob. 22:33:05 -!- keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:33:08 Weren't you going to avoid all the headaches and switch to newlisp? 22:33:31 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffebce.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:33:36 Xach: I'm considering Chicken Scheme. 22:34:04 Hunchentoot fails on 9 out of 10 CLs these days. 22:34:14 keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:15 preyalone_: considering your track record, I'll bet it doesn't. 22:34:33 pkhuong: There's no need for an ad hominem. 22:34:53 there's no ad hominem in bayesian decision making. 22:35:00 Haha. 22:35:06 keyvan-mac [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:30 Try Hunchentoot/Quicklisp on ABCL, SBCL, CCL, GCL, and ECL on Mac OS X and Ubuntu. 22:35:45 GCL can't even load Quicklisp. 22:36:08 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 22:36:19 GCL is irrelevant 22:36:25 I don't think quicklisp attemps to support GCL 22:36:29 (does anything else?) 22:36:48 apart from maxima and axiom, I don't think so 22:39:12 preyalone_: the only lisp I'd use on OSX is probably CCL (SBCL expects a saner system), ECL is a special case. No one should bother with GCL, and ABCL is a different beast altogether 22:39:30 (well, there's also LW, but I didn't test it there) 22:39:44 p_l|backup: CCL, especially Lispbox CCL, is the only CL I've tried that works with Hunchentoot on Mac OS X and Ubuntu/Xen. 22:39:45 Maxima may drop gcl support. Too bad. I hear that gcl runs maxima faster than all others. 22:39:51 preyalone_: In my experience both CCL and SBCL work great on OS X 22:39:54 why is GCL so frowned upon, is it not like ECL ? 22:40:06 SBCL does work well on OS X; it's fast too! 22:40:10 GCL is not on the Quicklisp radar. 22:40:25 GCL is old. It doesn't export the :CL package. 22:40:28 homie: except that ECL is actually developed 22:40:37 and ECL supports ANSI 22:40:57 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:41:00 isn't gcl a cltl2 yet? 22:41:35 also, GCL won't support certain important stuff, especially important for Hunchentoot, like threading 22:41:40 Lispworks and RMCL work too on OS X 22:41:50 preyalone_: hunchentoot works fine with sbcl on mac os x. 22:42:18 If the ports or package system you use doesn't ship a sbcl that works, don't blame hunchentoot and sbcl. 22:42:22 And clisp too... 22:42:55 -!- sellout [~Adium@18.111.56.248] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:15 Xach: Aye, that's why I have it in for MacPorts. 22:43:28 *Xach* wonders about MKCL support 22:43:30 Fink has CLISP with threads, but it's an older version. Weird. 22:43:40 does "make install" from a fresh sbcl checkout work? If not, you can blame sbcl 22:43:48 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffebce.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 22:43:57 preyalone_: it seems you're expecting a level of support from these port systems (: 22:43:59 needing to configure the build process before it works is a bug too. 22:44:00 there is none, though (-: 22:44:03 I installed SBCL from Macports and others except CCL using brew 22:44:11 threads on clisp are experimental. 22:44:13 I don't blame SBCL except with regards to Xen. The dev teams should work that bit out. 22:44:22 preyalone_: the bug is in Xen. 22:44:37 SBCL is easy to install, fast, and in my experience has threads on every platform that supports them. 22:45:07 IIRC, I had to recompile and configure SBCL to get threads support 22:45:43 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 22:46:18 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:46:21 isn't xen mostly deprecated anyways? 22:46:24 -!- tr3x [~tr3x@78-0-222-47.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:46:25 I thought everyone used KVM now 22:46:40 foom: It may be. My webhost uses Xen for now. 22:46:43 foom: I think Linode uses Xen 22:46:53 peterhil: it's only enabled by default on linux. other platforms have known bugs with threads. 22:47:26 wenn SBCL hasn't thread support on much outside x86 22:47:31 -!- drks [~4e00de2f@ns1.smartcall.bg] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 22:47:48 probably power as well 22:48:02 threads on PPC have bit rotted away 22:48:07 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 22:48:07 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 22:48:07 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 -!- keyvan-mac [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:21 mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 22:48:35 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:48:37 peterhil: About convert-to-lisp-array. Do you want row and column vectors to be come 1D lisp arrays? 22:50:04 Good day, chaps. Remember, a bad day in () is better than a good day in {}. 22:50:09 -!- preyalone_ [81aebe65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.101] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:50:17 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:50:39 rtoym: That depends, do you mean vectors of 1D vectors or just one 1D vector? I would prefer 2Darray and an option to get the underlying 1D vector straight out. 22:53:30 tr3x_ [~tr3x@93-138-12-96.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 22:53:55 peterhil: Sorry for confusing you with Peter "psilord" Keller yesterday. 22:54:11 I was planning on converting a row or column matrix to a single 1D lisp array, smashing the distinction between row and column matrices 22:54:23 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 22:54:49 Xach: No problem. 22:54:52 relevant to multidimensional arrays http://i.imgur.com/HmkHv.png 22:55:02 davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:30 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:56:50 Quadrescence: sure. 22:57:28 rtoym: I think that works for now. And gives opportunities to start making the stride work on either Lisp array or Matlisp side 22:58:15 Xach: ABCL regression is indeed fixed. 22:58:15 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756051.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:28 Xach: new release is now eminent. 22:58:31 And libsnd, Mixalot and such probably expect 1D arrays anyway 22:58:56 BTW, what library do you usually use to process images on web applications or otherwise? 22:59:00 peterhil: Good. I'll push these changes to the repo shortly. 22:59:06 OK, cool! 22:59:31 *rtoym* doesn't do image processing anymore web or otherwise. 23:00:48 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-166-94.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:00:48 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:01:55 peterhil: opticl! 23:02:14 I'm thinking of converting an old half-static PHP club event site to UCW, and make something generally useful out of it as a side result. But I need some way to make thumbnails of JPEG and PNG images, and maybe PDFs too. I know there is cl-pdf for PDFs. 23:02:21 tronador_ [~guille@190.66.172.182] has joined #lisp 23:02:25 -!- davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:02:30 slyrus: I'll check that out. Haven't heard of it yet. 23:02:57 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:06 peterhil: I've used imagemagick for thumbnailing. 23:04:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:04:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 23:04:48 peterhil: Changes pushed. 23:05:30 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffebce.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:05:44 slyrus: opticl seems promising - there's even gamma curves! Which I like as a DTP professional. :-) 23:06:06 rtoym: Ok, I'll pull them. But then I'm off to have a beer or two... 23:06:18 Have fun! 23:06:43 cool. documentation is still very much a work in progress, but you can get a sneak preview here: http://cyrusharmon.org/static/opticl-examples/opticl-examples.xhtml 23:08:53 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 23:09:07 Pretty cool! 23:09:17 *p_l|backup* <3 conduit-packages 23:10:24 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:11:20 davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:25 Intensity [6DFdL4rNTD@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 23:12:13 thanks rtoy, assuming that was to me :) 23:12:58 rootlocus [~rootlocus@2402:1800:1:2801:226:4aff:fe09:eee2] has joined #lisp 23:13:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-208-157.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:48 -!- astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-41-181.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Quit] 23:16:04 slyrus: Looking at the preliminary docs, the opticl API seems quite well thought out. Affine transformations are fun. 23:16:59 thanks. it's my second time around... I made a bunch of mistakes with ch-image and wanted to "fix" those. 23:19:00 -!- super` [~super_@pool-173-65-48-189.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:21:49 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 23:21:54 rtoym: Oh, now I see what you meant... the 1d row or column vectors. That's good they become just 1d arrays. I see there's some improvements to be made wrt to the copying. :-) 23:22:11 *peterhil* goes now 23:22:13 I was lazy. 23:22:50 Well, at least there's now an easy way to get a hold of the data 23:23:14 First make it work, then... 23:23:36 wubo [~user@c-68-55-91-8.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:57 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-90-52-4.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:33:50 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:18 -!- sellout is now known as Guest44568 23:44:26 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 23:44:53 etenil [~user@93-96-0-153.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:44:55 Hi there 23:45:02 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@46.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45:53 -!- cmm- [~cmm@109.65.210.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:46:21 amb007 [~a_bakic@46.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:35 I'm working on a silly macro to just to illustrate what macros are in an example. But I'm stuck. Here's what I'm doing: http://pastebin.com/8dZRF5Jx 23:48:00 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:03 basically, what disturbs me is the "line", which is defined in the macro 23:48:17 I'm not sure how to deal with that 23:49:17 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 23:49:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:49:46 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:46 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-107-232.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:44 hmm, did sb-pcl change recently? 23:51:56 a number of projects have failed due to sb-pcl package locks. (maybe the package locks are new?) 23:53:41 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-70-197.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:53:50 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:58:27 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-76.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:27 -!- pattern [~pattern@ool-45715287.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:58:27 pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has joined #lisp