18:45:46 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:46 18:45:46 -!- names: ccl-logbot milkpost jdz Ragnaroek homie eugu_ jewel lispm kejsaren Zephyrus corruptmemory em ramkrsna Bronsa waaaaargh cesarbp l4ndfo dralston qebab gozoner_ ZabaQ adu Adlai mpereira dto dkasak daniel myu2 Spion_ pevaneyn dfox taylanub The_Fellow1 Joreji slash_ sonnym sellout milanj araujo sacho jikanter gaidal gravicappa Xach sabalaba Areil` Liera` gffa rpg Salamander confounds mega1 hargettp_ churib dlowe benny Wolong lemoinem borkamaniac leo2007 18:45:46 -!- names: billitch jamief Euthydemus Jasko urandom__ jweiss Gmind gemelen kencausey antgreen Krystof mrSpec HET2 stassats` Athas dumrat Nshag qsun hermitek hugod beach Hoornet bobbysmith007 H4ns xan_ kpreid morphling Kenjin madsenz1 insomniaSalt snorble tenawa SpitfireWP ineiros chemuduguntar mishoo pchrist Phoodus peterhil` srcerer housel rasterbar parcs illuminati1113 pavlvs loke Khisanth La0fer ace4016 MoALTz tty234 egn tsuru aidalgol fihi09 cmm Odin- rdd 18:45:46 -!- names: AntiSpamMeta cmatei lianj strlen ozzloy BrianRice sigjuice_ [df]_ rapacity specbot minion lisppaste nyef s0ber emporas jcazevedo lolsuper_ simontwo c|mell marienz dRbiG nowhere_man tritchey incandenza derrotebaron BlankVerse _2x2l cmbntr metasyntax oconnore wubo koning_robot clog Mathieu setmeaway jayne hramrach_ basho__ OODavo antifuchs Obfuscate bzzbzz z0d akkartik_ keyvan1 pmd Intensity Jubb Ginei_Morioka tessier rabite dmiles_afk mathrick 18:45:46 -!- names: Yamazaki-kun stepnem gz` amb007 schmrkc lnostdal zakwilson madnificent xinming timjstewart pjb sbahra Pepe_ nuba adeht getha zbigniew eno Demosthenes levi tychoish jwise eli easyE sykopomp setheus sglinux katesmith yahooooo erk cnl rootzlevel zfx mal__ ianmcorvidae derrida phadthai prip lorenz_ ve tc kanru frodef Patzy ilmari Posterdati joshe djinni` froydnj dcrawford cibs mon_key deepfire copec felipe bfein tomaw jkantz gnooth larva naryl ``Erik 18:45:46 -!- names: OliverUv mornfall pattern kloeri Guest83740 abend reb` guther dostoyevsky algorist_ clop johs huehnts Tristam aoh CrazyEddy cky rsynnott guaqua Aisling PuffTheMagic _3b Quadrescence joast timchen1a vhost- TDT p_l|backup silentbicycle smithzv DrForr cods Zahl pok_ cYmen tic Fade mouflon andreer PissedNumlock Borbus Xantoz acieroid froggey LittleQNCCU slyrus_ kleppari Axioplase_ christoph abeaumont fe[nl]ix duko ecraven Dodek csamuelson trigen` tvaalen 18:45:46 -!- names: scode_ foom kae arbscht _dev0_ ramus luis HerbieB mtd fmu faulevel mgr_ krappie__ krl twem2_ Jacke jsnell baggles Bucciarati peddie rotty jeekl Draggor koollman _8david` ejohnson ragnul jesusabdullah k9quaint hyko spacebat cpt_nemo nullman vert2 freiksenet shachaf Adrinael galdor df_aldur pr j_king Zhivago antoszka vsync pkhuong fds quasisane albino `micro jrockway Tordek zc00gii hlavaty` rvncerr JuanDaugherty Jabberwockey Kovensky |3b| lonstein pp206 18:45:46 -!- names: wgl 18:46:08 oconnore: not yet known, just been discussing with a professor today about possible R&D work for military, with target weight under 15g 18:46:23 konr [~user@187.106.38.65] has joined #lisp 18:46:37 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:49 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:46:51 cool 18:46:58 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-076.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 18:46:58 Maybe some of the old Naughty Dog people would have ideas? 18:47:00 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.39] has quit [Quit: Offline] 18:47:35 if GOAL, even incomplete, might become available, it would be a great boon, IMHO 18:50:29 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:50:54 And who was it that was doing basically this, but targeting FPGAs? 18:51:26 Marc Battyani? H4ns? 18:51:49 ... 18:52:15 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:24 I actually helped a friend of mine work on code that did FPGA -> VHDL (or Verilog, don't remember). Working for a FPGA-centered lisp company :) 18:52:42 jso [~user@wsip-70-164-99-62.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:40 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 18:54:05 Battyani. 18:54:27 I think so. Wasn't it Novasparks? 18:54:46 brb 18:55:06 novasparks is nova marc's. 18:56:31 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 18:56:51 -!- konr [~user@187.106.38.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:53 -!- Liera` [~user@123.21.171.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:33 milkpost_ [~milkpost@dhcpw80ffc278.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 19:04:06 billstclair_ [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 19:04:36 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ffc278.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:04:40 -!- billstclair_ is now known as billstclair 19:04:46 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 19:04:46 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 19:04:57 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 19:06:00 dumrat pasted "Undef var warning" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120057 19:06:18 guys, can you tell me why that code produces a warning 19:06:27 dumrat: because you reference the undefined variable OUT. 19:06:39 it says that 'out' is undefined 19:06:47 There you have it. 19:06:58 but dolist can have a return param right? 19:07:28 dumrat: dolist can have a return expression. it's not a way to introduce a new variable binding. 19:07:41 ah 19:07:43 so its like 19:07:54 I have to allocate mem for that variable first? 19:08:13 dumrat: You have to create a binding for it. 19:08:19 dumrat: LET is one easy way to do that. 19:08:29 kk 19:08:34 thanks 19:08:37 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:09:45 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.252] has joined #lisp 19:11:36 -!- Areil` [~Areil@123.21.171.223] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:12:07 akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:24 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:58 -!- lispm [~lispm@d220164.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:13:38 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 19:13:56 dumrat: I don't recommend naming a variable LST. If it's a list, and there's no better name, call it LIST. 19:15:21 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 19:15:50 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:16:10 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 19:16:14 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-76-101-191-198.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:50 -!- milkpost_ is now known as milkpost 19:18:01 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:18:15 konr [~user@187.106.38.65] has joined #lisp 19:18:25 :S 19:18:29 I cudnt help it 19:18:33 I'll change 19:20:32 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-29-135.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:21:09 jesusito [~user@110.pool85-49-242.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 19:21:18 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-209-135.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:21:19 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host235-175-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:22:36 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-076.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:23:35 chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.163.130.230] has joined #lisp 19:24:04 is there a portable equivalent of allegro's pipe-stream? 19:24:05 http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/current/doc/operators/excl/make-pipe-stream.htm 19:24:15 Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-215.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 19:24:23 -!- konr [~user@187.106.38.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:38 One way would be to use gray streams; another is to fudge it using string streams. 19:27:04 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:05 gray streams sounds more reasonable except for stretching purposes 19:27:21 (as in 'let's try to stretch ansi cl as far as possible') 19:27:26 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:27:59 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 19:28:59 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:29:08 tcr: yeah if nothing is available, then I plan to use gray streams 19:29:29 dumrat pasted "woes" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120058 19:29:32 a generalized version of slime streams would be nice as a standalone system 19:29:58 slime streams is a gray stream with an associated function. Using closures you can build all sorts of streams on top of that 19:30:03 hello 19:30:13 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:30:32 tcr: can you elaborate a bit more? 19:30:36 I put a print and an error in a progn 19:30:43 but the print never hapens 19:31:11 doesnt it eval from left to right? 19:31:13 dumrat: Try a finish-output before the error. 19:31:22 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 19:32:17 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-93-174-55.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:48 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:33:58 -!- [df]_ is now known as [df] 19:34:41 konr [~user@187.106.38.65] has joined #lisp 19:35:17 dumrat: (flatten '(((3)) 4 5)) => (((3)) 4 5) 19:37:15 bad flatten, no cookie! 19:37:50 I don't really want flatten exactly 19:38:24 do you want to copy a list? 19:38:35 mmm 19:38:36 or rather, a tree 19:38:58 Wait I'll update the paste with input data 19:40:04 dumrat annotated #120058 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120058#1 19:41:11 -!- tc [~travis@rrcs-67-78-243-170.se.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:41:18 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:41:19 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 19:41:23 and half-flatten doesn't make any sense either 19:41:41 *scratches head* 19:42:04 tc_ [~travis@rrcs-67-78-243-170.se.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:23 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 19:42:23 it always returns nil if passed a list 19:42:53 -!- tc_ is now known as tc 19:43:25 josemanuel [~josemanue@115.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:43:33 and (list) is a rather verbose way to say () 19:43:46 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:43:56 looks like you didn't read your book! 19:44:08 :( 19:44:18 :'( 19:46:17 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 19:46:29 no need to cry, you can still read it 19:47:11 -!- tc [~travis@rrcs-67-78-243-170.se.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:47:16 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 19:47:30 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@115.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 19:48:01 Is there a dumber lisp room around here? 19:48:11 >:-) 19:48:24 no, #lisp is as dumb as it gets 19:48:37 I better give it up then 19:48:37 pavelludiq_ [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 19:48:41 :p 19:48:43 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:49:54 luckily, you don't need any channel to become more knowledgeable 19:50:00 minion: please tell dumrat about PCL 19:50:02 dumrat: please look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:50:10 minion: PAIP? 19:50:11 PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 19:50:12 tc_ [~travis@rrcs-67-78-243-170.se.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:50:18 minion: gentle? 19:50:18 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 19:50:22 oh dear 19:50:34 -!- tc_ is now known as tc 19:50:40 see you in 10 years! 19:50:45 thanks 19:51:02 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-209-135.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:51:48 in case you didn't know, it was a reference to http://norvig.com/21-days.html 19:51:49 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 19:52:38 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:53:03 oh 19:53:15 I thought it was an illuminati reference 19:54:52 -!- pavelludiq_ is now known as pavelludiq 19:55:00 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.134.6] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 19:55:53 wow 19:55:57 nice article 19:57:47 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:48 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-29-135.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:58:55 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-52-93.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:59:20 Anyone have some links to some readtable fun and magic? 19:59:31 (just some interesting examples) 19:59:32 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:00:22 Quadrescence: some silliness from me: https://gist.github.com/767289 20:00:48 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-76-101-191-198.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:50 with it, you can do: n  (1 2 3 4 5): (evenp n) => T 20:00:55 Ha, I remember this 20:01:01 (which is quite silly) 20:01:13 dlowe1 [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:20 -!- dlowe1 [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:01:24 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 20:01:25 err, should be  n  (1 2 3 4 5): (evenp n) 20:01:29 Quadrescence: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3222747467111424@naggum.net.html 20:01:29 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:44 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:49 clhs list* 20:01:49 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_list_.htm 20:02:19 Xach: oh, neat 20:02:31 i once wrote [1..100] syntax, like in haskell, but i don't remember where it is 20:02:37 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955DA4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:02:42 -!- konr [~user@187.106.38.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:51 ... So, what does evaluating (LIST*) do? 20:03:02 konr [~user@187.106.38.65] has joined #lisp 20:03:05 errors? 20:03:26 Can't, not listed under exceptional situations. 20:03:53 And any given call to list* returns one fewer cons than the same arguments passed to list. 20:03:54 objects+ is one or more objects 20:04:06 Hmm... So it is. 20:04:19 nyef: it returns a negative cons. 20:04:42 pkhuong: How do you represent one of those in memory? 20:04:54 nyef: by reducing consing? 20:05:01 i.e., by reclaiming memory 20:05:16 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:05:29 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.204] has joined #lisp 20:05:53 this is as far as my reader macro fun has went: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/src/ddf6d1793e74/array_notation.lisp https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/src/ddf6d1793e74/function_notation.lisp 20:06:19 but now i see an error in the comment 20:06:46 stassats`: But it's an anti-cons, so it only reclaims memory when it interacts with a cons... and probably emits a bogon. 20:06:52 I feel like I should have learned about paredit-splice-sexp (M-s) sooner. 20:07:10 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:22 *stassats`* is splicing them all the time 20:07:25 *Quadrescence* too. 20:07:40 *sykopomp* spliced them -manually-. 20:07:55 martyr! 20:08:13 I sacrifice my life and sanity for toenail clippings. 20:08:17 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-52-93.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:38 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-209-135.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:08:53 -!- jdz [~jdz@host67-104-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:09:03 I think this is a sign that I should write up a new paredit cheatsheet and learn the rest of it. 20:09:28 I need to get some better paren highlighting, so I can see how much I'm slurping or barfing. 20:09:47 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-219-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:09:54 I wonder if there's something like paste.lisp.org's paren-highlighting available for emacs. 20:10:33 I actually quite like paste.lisp.org's highlighting generally. How it highlights macros and whatever 20:11:35 ... oh, right. Are the bots still connected? 20:11:43 minion: are you still connected? 20:11:44 maybe 20:11:46 ... guess so. 20:11:54 nyef: minion is unsure. 20:11:59 maybe it's worth checking up on him. 20:12:41 also on my emacs highlighting wishlist: highlighting free/bound variables in a function 20:12:44 That's more a problem with the conversational engine than with connection management. 20:13:02 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:14:12 madsy [~madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 20:14:33 francogrex [~user@109.130.122.202] has joined #lisp 20:14:34 What are the semantics of a defmacro within a defun? 20:14:59 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:14:59 "you're doing it wrong" 20:15:02 minion: no offence, but you're a robot, aren't you? 20:15:03 you are being a bit negative 20:15:08 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ffc278.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:15:23 Adlai: Well it's not me doing it, which is why I'm wondering. It looks wrong. 20:15:47 Quadrescence: the same as everywhere, minus top-level bonuses 20:16:16 stassats`: so it's just limited to the functionscope? 20:16:20 function's scope* 20:16:39 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-209-135.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:16:44 no, as i said, it's the same as everywhere 20:16:52 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:25 "minus top-level bonuses", what does this mean? 20:17:30 it will just define a macro each time the function is run 20:17:35 clhs defmacro 20:17:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defmac.htm 20:17:36 okay 20:17:45 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-60-184.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:17:51 see "If a defmacro form appears as a top level form ..." part 20:17:55 when a defmacro form is at the toplevel, the macro definition affects code coming afterwards in the file 20:18:01 But it's not something that takes effect until the function is run, and the compiler doesn't know about it if it happens at file-compile time. 20:18:11 slash_ [~unknown@pD955D667.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:27 (Well, okay, maybe if there's an eval-when...) 20:18:49 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:18:53 in other words, there're no sane reasons to do that 20:19:21 Interestingly, SBCL tends to take toplevel forms such as DEFMACRO and DEFUN, wrap them in lambdas, compile the result, and dump it to a fasl along with an instruction to funcall "for effect". 20:20:00 *Xach* wonders about funcall-for-speed 20:20:26 ssh 20:20:42 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:45 now i was going to ask if an experession can return a function (not its name!), but then realized that ... a function is a list O_o 20:21:19 jdz [~jdz@host162-109-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:21:51 taylanub: that was a wrong realization 20:21:52 (listp #'car) => nil 20:22:07 its representation is a list, then ? 20:22:18 gabnet [~gabnet@252.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:20 no 20:22:32 taylanub: looks like you need to do some more research before asking your assertions here 20:22:39 however, an expression can return a function 20:22:40 yes i realize now 20:22:52 how exactly ? 20:22:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-14.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:23:17 but wouldn't it basically be a piece of lisp code ? 20:23:20 (defun foo () #'foo) 20:23:26 i.e. a list (of lists...) 20:23:40 it wouldn't 20:24:21 -!- dumrat [~dumrat@112.135.213.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:25:09 then what is a function, in lisp? 20:25:18 a function is "an object representing code, which can be called with zero or more arguments, and which produces zero or more values" 20:25:33 from http://l1sp.org/cl/glossary/function 20:26:34 i thought this would be simpler. oh well, the only "programming language" i know well so far is the Bourne shell 20:27:11 Younder [~john@224.13.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:27:24 drunk again.. 20:28:20 ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:28:25 First right thing you have said about me Zach. 'Don't drink and IRC'. 20:28:39 So I Think I'll stop now. 20:29:00 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:29:01 too late... 20:29:05 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:51 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ffc278.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 20:30:21 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:32:08 wow it's my lucky day, I happen to be around and Younder shows up :D 20:32:37 If it wasn't for bad luck, you wouldn't have any luck at all! 20:32:38 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:32 s/Zach/Xach/ 20:36:18 rien [~user@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:36:52 if I can't start a macro with `@ then how do I write a macro that outputs two forms? 20:36:54 progn? 20:37:04 rien: that's right 20:37:15 that'll look funny. let me try :) 20:37:18 -!- Hoornet [~Hoornet@93.103.24.156] has quit [Quit: Love is the law, love under Will.] 20:38:53 hmm I'm having a bit of trouble thinking this through 20:39:19 just to confirm: it is possible to write a macro that outputs two toplevel forms, a defvar and a defun? 20:39:29 progn preserves toplevelness 20:39:30 by "two" I mean "several" 20:39:36 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 20:39:38 another trial: how, or in what format, is a function internally saved ? 20:39:42 rien: no, but a progn at the toplevel acts the same as multiple toplevel forms 20:39:50 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 20:39:55 taylanub: depends on your implementation 20:40:00 dlowe: oh... so the progn has to be ` itself 20:40:01 ok 20:40:21 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-209-135.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:40:23 a (progn of two toplevel forms is not *exactly* equivalent to two seperate toplevel forms 20:40:33 Xach, Ray Charles 20:40:33 the (progn ) one will be READ in one go 20:40:36 taylanub: the (standard) language doesn't give you any tool to know that even by accident. 20:40:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:40:42 tcr: :( 20:41:11 rien: that's a non-issue for macro-generated code. The reader has already been through. 20:41:25 -!- jesusito [~user@110.pool85-49-242.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:26 rien: ` is a way to write a kind of code template. it isn't a magic macro-only thing. 20:41:31 that is not quite true 20:41:38 It's very handy with macros, though. 20:41:51 pkhuong: it can be an issue if you want to expand to (progn (in-package ) (def...)) 20:41:59 Xach: ok. you'll understand what I'm trying to do when I get it to work. then I'll show you guys. 20:42:11 I'm sorry but can someone explain to me where to find the explanation for (let ((x (list 1 2 3))) (loop for (i) on x do (setf i (sqrt i))) x) versus (let ((x (list 1 2 3))) (loop for i on x do (setf (car i) (sqrt (car i)))) x) ? I can't fathom why one setf x and the other doesn't? 20:42:47 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:42:48 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:42:50 because one modifies a variable, and another modifies a list 20:43:27 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-90-52-4.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:44:00 can i get a function (definition) back (as a returned value) ? 20:44:28 taylanub: you mean the source code? 20:44:36 clhs function-lambda-expression 20:44:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fn_lam.htm 20:44:49 Sometimes, yes, the extent depends on the implementation 20:45:07 if you really want that, you can always save it upon definition 20:45:09 otherwise there are "hacks" to achieve the goal 20:46:47 sykopomp: to be honest i don't know what exactly i want. i'll find out when i find it out 20:46:58 tcr: that's not quite reader-related. also, wow... hack (: 20:47:04 Would it not usually be sufficient to know which source file the definition is in, and where in the file? 20:47:09 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:47:47 i'm still thinking of an "internal representation" of some kind i guess 20:48:11 why do you need to know about internal representation? 20:48:14 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:14 tcr: actually, it works, due to toplevelness. 20:48:21 are you implementing your own lisp? 20:48:28 pkhuong: the in-package thing? 20:48:33 tcr: yup. 20:48:47 uhm no 20:48:47 isn't everyone? 20:49:06 -!- Younder [~john@224.13.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:49:06 taylanub: are you talking about internal representation as in 'what a compiler uses while translating', or something else? 20:49:09 i'd rather implement not my own 20:49:35 *Xach* implements quicklisp 20:49:57 pkhuong pasted "IN-PACKAGE and PROGN" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120063 20:50:04 Younder [~john@224.13.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:50:11 i don't really mean the technical way it's stored in the hardware or whatnot, but rather like ... think of how lists are actually linked cells. something similar to that 20:51:15 -!- ehu` is now known as ehu 20:51:16 pkhuong: that's not the point, the point is (progn (in-package :foo) (defun bar)), will not define a function FOO::BAR 20:51:19 memory addresses 20:51:26 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:26 Younder: go away 20:51:28 pkhuong: but there is no reader involved in your example 20:51:30 tcr: why would it? the symbol has already been read. 20:51:39 that's my point 20:51:55 oh. Sure, it doesn't work if you completely misunderstand lisp. 20:52:16 this is more common then you think 20:52:23 s/then/than/ 20:53:07 maybe i should learn what lambda means. (awkward silence?) 20:53:31 it's latinized name of a greek letter 20:53:52 in the math context... 20:53:54 pkhuong: I'm not sure how to interpret that remark 20:54:14 then it still stands for more than one thing though, no ? 20:54:21 It doesn't work because it doesn't fit in how common lisp works yeah sure but that *was my point* 20:54:23 tcr: your mental is broken if you expect that to work for a macro. 20:54:42 I would have liked that to work though at some point in past 20:54:51 for *macros*?! 20:55:11 didn't want to have to intern all the symbols myself explicitly 20:55:23 -!- jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:55:30 tcr: or call READ at expansion-time? 20:55:45 cons = [bit 32/64, bit 32/64] 20:56:05 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:56:18 pkhuong: my example actually also expanded to a defpackage so the package was not yet available 20:56:53 -!- eugu_ [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:00 -!- chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.163.130.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:57:05 (progn (dekpackage) (in-package) (funky-stuff "with strings")) [also, yuck :)] 20:57:48 ? 20:58:24 tcr: funky-stuff can be a macro that uses READ. 20:59:27 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:59:29 -!- qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:59:34 yeah yuck indeed 21:00:17 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00:19 taylanub: typically, functions are represented as something that can be evaluated (bytecode, machine code or an AST), paired with an environment that represents the surrounding lexical scope. 21:00:33 qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 21:00:56 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:02:27 Types are tagged by two or three bits. If composite re fenced to a byte tag. 21:02:37 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 21:02:39 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*john@*.13.202.84.customer.cdi.no 21:02:50 -!- Younder [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (You should have quit when you were ahead.) 21:02:57 -!- Xach has set mode -b *!*@*.muohio.edu 21:02:59 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 21:06:27 -!- jdz [~jdz@host162-109-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:06:44 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:08:35 lispm [~lispm@d220164.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 21:09:06 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:09:44 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:10:20 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Quit: upgrades] 21:10:39 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:46 how do you conditionally write something to a macro's output? 21:12:55 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:13:08 ,@(when (condition) '((code you want))) 21:13:08 `( ... ,(if (cadr n) (cadr n))) <-- always prints n to the macroexpanded code 21:13:53 so ,(if .. is wrong? it should be ,@(if.. ? I though @ was "splice" 21:14:03 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:14:05 thought* 21:14:21 rien: don't trial and error program :) 21:14:32 it is splicing; the trick is to splice in something with "an extra layer of parens" if the condition is true, and NIL if it's false 21:14:33 dlowe: are you looking over my shoulder?? 21:14:34 :) 21:14:35 -!- confounds [~confounds@CPE0013f7f0bd88-CM0013f7f0bd84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 21:14:47 there is rien de nouveau sous le soleil 21:14:57 haha, indeed. 21:15:00 nothing new under the sun 21:15:27 ok, I will keep trying... *hopes dlowe doesn't read this* :P 21:15:39 rien de rien 21:16:15 ,@(if.. worked but it adds it to the code as if it were a dotted list 21:16:28 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:02 rien: hence the "extra layer of parens". 21:18:17 -!- tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:19:26 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:29 if you're going to program by trial-and-error, at least have the decency to trial the things we tell you to trial without error! 21:19:44 I am using the ,@(if... now 21:20:00 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:20:59 damn, I think I finally got it 21:21:12 I was getting confused with (consp (cdr n)) 21:21:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-150.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:22:36 rien pasted "take a look at my lol" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120067 21:22:44 check it out 21:23:01 it's a let-over-lambda macro. don't hate me please :) 21:23:15 this is mainly for practicing. 21:23:49 I included one of my old attempts by accident :/ 21:24:28 rien annotated #120067 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120067#1 21:24:44 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:52 so is that a valid macro? 21:25:44 it's not done yet. it will have to replace every occurrence oh "hey" and "hello" in the body of the function.. 21:26:13 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [] 21:26:21 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:23 -!- Ragnaroek [5b0c40ac@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.12.64.172] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:29:12 -!- duko [~cdepauw@bootes.dreamhost.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:40 Good morning everyone! 21:32:34 Hello beach. 21:33:13 Hey nyef. Rukowen is trying to learn Lisp, and image rotation was one of the exercises I have him. 21:33:32 Yeah, saw in the logs when I got up this morning. 21:33:38 Gone, back in a few. 21:33:43 Ah, OK. 21:34:23 antgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:35:17 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:21 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:35:24 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:18 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 21:37:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:37:58 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:38:37 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 21:38:41 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-209-135.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:39:46 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:40:38 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:43:15 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@252.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:47:06 krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has joined #lisp 21:47:36 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:49:33 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:49:42 Okay, back. 21:49:42 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:50:51 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 21:52:34 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:15 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:56:00 -!- Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:56:00 -!- l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@uwsclient-142-85.uws.ualberta.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:56:21 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 21:57:57 -!- antgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:30 nyef: In CLIM, what would be required in order for one application to be able to grab objects in presentations of another application? 21:59:12 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 22:00:08 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:00:47 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:21 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 22:01:21 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 22:01:21 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 22:01:59 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:02:23 beach: I'd have to think about that. 22:02:33 Sure, take your time. 22:02:38 Should I presume that they're both running in the same address space? 22:02:50 Yes. 22:03:09 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:03:34 Then it's an interaction question between multiple toplevel windows, as almost all of the event and redraw handling is done in the port event thread... 22:04:10 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 22:04:20 nyef: It is OK to assume that the threads would have to be restructured for this to work. 22:04:25 Yeah, unless you're doing something of a mashup within a single toplevel frame, the only interaction scheme defined is drag-and-drop, IIRC. 22:05:02 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:05:58 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:06:02 If you're going for OLE-style embedding, then you've probably got most of what you need out-of-the-box, except possibly a scheme for overriding menus and command tables or such. 22:06:15 -!- Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:57 You'd probably need to be more clever if the apps are on separate ports, and my current feeling is that separate apps /should/ be on separate ports, but the OLE-embedding argument would completely override that. 22:07:06 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 22:07:31 nyef: It would be OK to have a single port in this case. 22:07:46 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A72FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:07:57 -!- lispm [~lispm@d220164.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 22:08:04 nyef: I am thinking similar things. There can't be much missing. Just a way to queue an event that would normally go to one application in a different one. 22:08:28 Umm... Events go to windows, not applications. 22:08:31 beach: the pixel macro and setf-expander are much nicer with ecase instead of case 22:09:02 nyef: right, but the window dispatches it. 22:09:11 True. 22:09:44 slyrus: Good! Making good progress? 22:09:59 zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:10:05 yes, in fits and starts 22:10:06 I don't think it gets interthread marshalled for quite a while, though. 22:10:51 nyef: Like I said, if required, imagin restructuring the traditional way of managing the threads. 22:11:02 *imagine 22:11:20 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754ab1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:29 No, no... my whole point is that I'm not in the least bit convinced that the thread handling needs to be restructured. 22:11:29 nyef: But you don't have to answer right now. Just an interesting subject I have been thinking about. 22:11:39 nyef: I see. 22:11:56 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754ab1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:14 That said, AIUI, McCLIM is doing it All Wrong. 22:15:59 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:17:16 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:18:35 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:18:49 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:20:03 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:20 pnq [~nick@ACA360CD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:20:23 -!- Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22:40 nyef: that's a distinct possibility (: 22:23:36 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:23:55 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-247.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:24:07 I think we did a good job with McCLIM, and it is working fine for many applications, but it wouldn't hurt to do it over, avoiding many of the mistakes. 22:24:40 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:25:07 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:13 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:47 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 22:26:30 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:27:08 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:21 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:40 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 22:28:12 what's the quick and dirty way of doing what with-html-output-to-string does, where it converts :some :functions into write-string calls ? PCL's chapters 30 and 31 are pretty advanced :) 22:28:16 I'm still on chapter 22 22:28:20 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:28:56 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:29:02 -!- Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:31:09 rien: I guess I don't understand the question. 22:31:26 Hexstream: you know cl-who? 22:31:36 Vaguely, yes. 22:31:59 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:32:11 You want to make a macro like WITH-HTML-OUTPUT-TO-STRING? 22:32:24 Or just print an object into a string? 22:32:30 PRIN1-TO-STRING, perhaps. 22:32:48 there's a macro called with-html-output-to-string that you can pass forms to, e.g. (:a :href "blah") and it'll turn that into the form: (write-string (concatenate 'string " yes 22:32:54 Or PRINC-TO-STRING 22:33:07 a macro like w-h-o-t-s 22:33:08 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:05 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 22:34:30 I found Quicklisp put itself in C:\Users\\quicklisp on windows. Does it always do that, or did it do that because I have %HOME% set to c:\users\? 22:34:31 Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 22:34:53 ehu: it puts a quiklisp dir in your home directory 22:35:11 if your lisp impl reports c:\Users\, then that's where ql puts it 22:35:28 Hexstream: I guess I can take a look at cl-who's source code for that macro, but some pointers would help. right now I haven't the faintest idea on how I would replace symbols in a form 22:35:31 how is "home" defined in CL? 22:35:36 antifuchs: ^^ 22:35:47 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 22:35:48 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@78-1-151-154.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:36:20 rien: You'll have to walk the form, probably by recursive-descent, and "rewrite" it into a form that implements the semantics you want... 22:36:41 Isn't "home" something very OS related, something an implementation doesn't really define? 22:36:41 ehu: by whatever user-homedir-pathname returns 22:36:44 dkasak [~dkasak@78-1-176-219.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 22:36:50 ah. 22:36:51 ok. 22:36:52 which I think is the worst identifier in all of CL 22:37:02 Hexstream: so I'd change it in place? that gets complicated when replacing symbols by more than one form 22:37:06 completely arbitrarily hyphenated and abbreviated. 22:37:11 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:18 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:37:24 rien: No, you don't replace in-place, you collect a modified version of the form. 22:37:46 antifuchs: I'm sure there's worse identifiers. I mean, we have rplaca/rplacd. :) 22:38:02 -!- krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:18 I guess I didn't know about that function, but it seems to be reasonably implemented for ABCL/WinXX 22:38:20 sykopomp: those are there for historical reasons. user-homedir-pathname must be new. 22:38:27 Hexstream: hmm... 22:38:31 thanks! 22:38:31 it's pretty much unforgivable (: 22:38:35 nilly [~nil@c-98-247-253-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:45 ehu: you're welcome (: 22:38:50 rien: You could have a look at https://github.com/Hexstream/hextml/blob/master/output.lisp 22:39:18 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 22:39:24 Hexstream: I will. currently I'm looking at https://github.com/Ferada/cl-who/blob/master/who.lisp but each function points to another :) 22:39:29 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 22:44:43 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 22:46:49 -!- 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#lisp 23:32:14 -!- Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:32:43 vhost- [~kyle@robodance.kyleterry.com] has joined #lisp 23:34:17 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:34:38 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:35:13 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:35:25 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:35:34 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:37:24 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 23:38:50 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:40:03 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 23:40:13 ok, now i *think* i know what i was trying to say. i was expecting that a function would be a variable that holds a lambda-expression 23:40:39 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 23:43:22 Which turns out not to be the case. 23:44:28 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:39 does/would it at least make sense? 23:45:03 taylanub: it does in scheme (: 23:45:14 but in cl, symbols can have many meanings attached to them. 23:45:17 wow, really? 23:45:51 function, variable, type, class, and then a bunch of things on its plist (: 23:46:10 from some short definitions (CL = ugly powerful; scheme = mathematically pure) i was already beginning to think i'll like scheme more when i dabble a bit in both 23:46:17 you can still get the function object (or the function definition) from the symbol, but it's not the variable value portion 23:46:54 Schemer: "Buddha is small, clean, and serious." Lispnik: "Buddha is big, has hairy armpits, and laughs." 23:46:55 i see 23:47:06 haha 23:47:11 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:47:14 it also means you can have a variable that is named LIST, and still use the LIST function 23:47:27 which I personally find a rather good thing (: 23:47:52 i now remember someone talking about that 23:48:44 -!- Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:48:53 but honestly i really love the thought of function = data (= variable) 23:49:22 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:22 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:49:26 well, you still can have that. you just have to be explicit about using it 23:49:38 Javascript had amazed me with it. (i'm not a web developer or so btw) 23:49:40 instead of your-function, it's #'your-function 23:49:46 ah 23:50:06 will have to read more 23:50:13 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:24 I suggest you do! there's a bunch more differences between scheme and cl (: 23:50:48 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:51:12 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 23:53:17 thanks for the help. bye for now 23:53:18 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:53:29 have fun (: 23:53:39 -!- Spion__ is now known as Spion 23:53:49 -!- Spion [~spion@77.29.250.12] has quit [Changing host] 23:53:49 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 23:55:19 -!- jim_ [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:55:34 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 23:55:49 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:57:03 pabst [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:57 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:59:54 Jamamooga [~Jamamooga@74-95-42-29-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp