17:43:16 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 17:43:16 17:43:16 -!- names: ccl-logbot SegFaultAX gz tychoish BlankVerse emporas Wolong Amadiro myu2 varjag ehu jewel kejsaren urandom__ jtza8 nikodemus MoALTz gozoner jhemono pers corruptmemory Jasko moah stassats tritchey tronador_ kushal milanj adu jwise Bronsa jesusito morphling mathrick kpreid eli srolls Liera__ cesarbp benny misza222 dlowe rmarianski tsuru Krystof confounds sellout leo2007 ikki hargettp_ mega1 Agari LiamH juniorroy Gmind jweiss OODavo dkasak oudeis zmv 17:43:16 -!- names: vilsonvieira gravicappa antgreen m1ngus pdelgallego peterhil` Saturnation Adlai Yuuhi Kenjin attila_lendvai HET2 pchrist easyE RaceCondition tcr madnificent delYsid H4ns echo-area ivan4th insomniaSalt zomgbie sykopomp parcs daniel___ mishoo__ gko mrSpec keyvan HG` sharps Salamander setheus theBlackDragon sglinux gigamonkey nO0b setmeaway katesmith SpitfireWP basho___ yahooooo erk cnl Khisanth billitch Obfuscate s0ber z0d rootzlevel apox zfx 17:43:16 -!- names: Ginei_Morioka hramrach_ akkartik mal__ tessier bobbysmith007 ianmcorvidae zakwilson derrida pjb fihi09``` phadthai prip lorenz_ simontwo yawniek ve antifuchs schmrkc tc MetalDust jikanter rins amb007 rdd redline6561 xinming jamief Xach kanru frodef DukePatience ASau Patzy ilmari Posterdati joshe Ralith slyrus c|mell djinni` lnostdal froydnj lemoinem dcrawford cmm- cibs mon_key deepfire copec jayne felipe aidalgol bfein eno emoon Taggnostr2 derrotebaron 17:43:16 -!- names: tomaw AntiSpamMeta koning_robot zbigniew billstclair jkantz gnooth larva naryl ``Erik bhattara OliverUv mornfall pmd pattern kloeri Guest83740 oconnore BrianRice abend reb` Euthydemus The_Fellow1 guther dostoyevsky algorist_ clop johs d2biG srcerer rabite huehnts Tristam aoh CrazyEddy snorble cky rsynnott yan_ guaqua Aisling metasyntax bzzbzz PuffTheMagic _3b Demosthenes Quadrescence joast timchen1a vhost- TDT p_l|backup johanbev silentbicycle smithzv 17:43:16 -!- names: DrForr Pepe_ cods Zahl pok_ cYmen tic Fade mouflon andreer PissedNumlock Borbus Xantoz acieroid froggey LittleQNCCU slyrus_ kleppari Axioplase_ christoph abeaumont fe[nl]ix duko ecraven ineiros churib Dodek csamuelson clog_ trigen` tvaalen scode_ [df] nuba foom kae arbscht _dev0_ ramus rme luis HerbieB mtd fmu faulevel adeht mgr_ cmbntr_ MichealH krappie__ krl incandenza twem2_ Jacke stepnem wgl pp206 lonstein |3b| Kovensky rtoym Jabberwockey 17:43:16 -!- names: JuanDaugherty rvncerr em hugod_ Nshag Adamant hlavaty` sonnym zc00gii qsun nowhereman Tordek jrockway `micro sigjuice albino araujo quasisane fds pkhuong vsync antoszka rapacity Zhivago j_king pr df_aldur galdor Adrinael cmatei shachaf freiksenet vert2 nullman _2x2l cpt_nemo spacebat housel rafusy hyko Yamazaki-kun k9quaint jesusabdullah ragnul ozzloy thijso lianj ejohnson _8david` qebab koollman strlen Draggor jeekl rotty kencausey jsnell baggles 17:43:16 -!- names: Bucciarati peddie 17:45:05 -!- jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:32 hmm... this is ringing a bell as I think I've been here before, but does cl-typesetting do png files? 17:45:50 it boiled down to first checking if the *package* had a symbol of that name pointing to a package object 17:47:03 p_l|backup: I saw you mentioning that yesterday, but didn't quite follow at the time. 17:47:10 rtoym: I could just as well send you the VM or Concordia files (haven't yet gotten around to writing a parser, but looks like a sexp with binary markers) 17:47:30 anyway, I'm off for a dinner 17:47:47 Ok. Aloha! Enjoy your dinner. 17:49:24 'morning 17:49:40 Blkt [~user@93-33-113-71.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:50:31 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@75-151-128-249-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:53:04 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-175-107.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:54:40 -!- Liera__ is now known as Liera 17:54:47 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:55:12 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:55:33 -!- ehu [~ehuels@194.48.133.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:56:40 Hello all. I've completely blanked on the name of the function that converts a tree into a list... ((1 2 (3 4))) -> (1 2 3 4). ? 17:56:53 flatten? 17:56:55 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:56:55 gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:57:02 Blkt: doh! 17:57:09 I'm not sure though :D 17:57:32 That recent reddit discuttion on "COLLAPSE" had me forget my own utility! 17:57:37 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:59:41 oudeis [~oudeis@75-151-128-249-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.146] has quit [Quit: Offline] 18:01:58 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@75-151-128-249-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:03:05 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:45 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:05:53 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 18:06:39 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 18:08:33 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.17.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:01 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.17.76] has joined #lisp 18:11:17 snearch [~snearch@f053007144.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:11:30 steamroll would be a better name 18:11:48 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:12:17 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:13:52 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:09 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 18:14:40 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.225] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:53 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.225] has joined #lisp 18:15:10 -!- Liera [~Liera@113.172.69.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:17:50 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:18:00 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:19:09 hehe 18:19:43 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:20:00 francogrex [~user@109.130.131.118] has joined #lisp 18:20:28 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:45 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.17.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:22:00 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:22:37 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 18:22:45 francogr` [~user@109.130.131.118] has joined #lisp 18:23:00 sorry i was disconnected here is the paste: http://paste.lisp.org/display/119996 18:23:35 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.131.118] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:23:45 -!- francogr` is now known as francogrex 18:24:32 Raykon [~user@2001:690:2100:19:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has joined #lisp 18:24:36 clbuild users  are you supposed to manually keep your working copies up to date after installing via clbuild, or is there some mechanism to `clbuild update-from-upstream` or something (clbuild2, in particular) 18:25:36 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:26:06 there should be, i don't remember how it's called 18:27:01 -!- Raykon [~user@2001:690:2100:19:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has left #lisp 18:27:27 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:10 could this be a problem with the c code or the interaction btween cffi and sbcl? 18:28:16 jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has joined #lisp 18:28:57 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-143-30.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 18:29:55 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.134] has joined #lisp 18:31:59 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:34:23 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:29 astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-78-12-87-25.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 18:34:52 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:09 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:33 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:38:38 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:39:03 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:39:15 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 18:39:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 18:41:34 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@83.240.225.146] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 18:42:38 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:45 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 18:44:33 Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:15 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff959f.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 18:45:25 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:46:55 -!- jhemono [~jhemono@79.240-225-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Quit: jhemono] 18:47:33 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007144.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:47:45 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host158-189-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:48:15 levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:36 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:50:02 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:50 francogr` [~user@109.130.131.118] has joined #lisp 18:50:57 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@123.16.111.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:20 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.131.118] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:51:23 Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:30 -!- francogr` is now known as francogrex 18:51:30 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:48 anyone know what sort of proof one needs to provide of being a student for ELS? 18:51:48 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:57 aloeblacc [~grant@c0201.aw.cl.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:54:05 Write LISP in all caps, ask for help with implementing "flatten" 18:54:22 haha 18:54:28 :-D 18:54:58 I would think some written statement from your university that you're enrolled as a student at the time the conference takes place 18:55:38 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:55:46 -!- m1ngus [~Adium@tunnel-32-135.vpn.uib.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:56:02 Xach: Actually, the email I got in response to my registration ELS was titled "LISP Symposium 2011 - invoice" 18:56:08 ok, like from a lecturer 18:56:12 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:56:39 I'm currently doing my MSc thesis part time, do you think that would count? 18:56:42 Guthur: our university would issue a statement of enrolment for each semester 18:56:43 Guthur: I'd think like from the registrar's office. 18:56:58 registrar's office is the place. 18:57:16 ok, cheers 18:58:19 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.134] has quit [Quit: Offline] 18:58:27 Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:52 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:01:53 pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@77.109.100.142] has joined #lisp 19:01:54 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 19:02:28 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 19:02:38 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:48 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:04:43 Xach, hows QuickLisp progressing? 19:05:17 I've been out of the loop for awhile, will it be moving out of 'beta' soon 19:05:23 Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:28 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.134] has joined #lisp 19:06:42 -!- gko [~user@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:11:08 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:12:27 Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:13 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:17:27 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:47 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 19:18:58 carlocci [~nes@93.37.194.142] has joined #lisp 19:19:24 Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:26 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:22:02 MoALTz_ [~no@92.9.79.177] has joined #lisp 19:22:15 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:22:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.50.88] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:23:16 jhemono [~jhemono@79.240-225-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:21 -!- aloeblacc [~grant@c0201.aw.cl.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Visit http://www.mistik.net] 19:24:14 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24:44 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:53 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.9.79.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:25:57 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:06 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.9.79.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:20 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:23 Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:38 MoALTz [~no@92.9.79.177] has joined #lisp 19:27:28 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.131.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:14 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff959f.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:29:52 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 19:30:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:22 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:31:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:32:01 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:24 Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:43 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:35:15 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c108.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:50 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.9.79.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:38:27 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:39:19 hi 19:39:58 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:40:22 Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:00 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:36 ehu [~ehuels@194.48.133.8] has joined #lisp 19:43:08 oudeis [~oudeis@pool-96-234-106-17.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:58 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:45:07 -!- jhemono [~jhemono@79.240-225-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Quit: jhemono] 19:45:11 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:45:23 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 19:45:23 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:45:23 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:46:21 gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:47:23 Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:21 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:49:16 guther: no rush 19:49:51 NoRushLisp? 19:49:56 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 19:50:08 Rushless 19:51:15 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.134] has quit [Quit: Offline] 19:51:21 francogrex [~user@109.130.131.118] has joined #lisp 19:52:23 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:52:24 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:52:40 pnq [~nick@ACA2C597.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:04 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:20 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:23 Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:13 -!- pers [~user@152.sub-75-198-241.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:59:23 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:01:24 Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:29 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.134] has joined #lisp 20:03:16 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:03:18 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:49 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:58 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:38 peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 20:09:42 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:56 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:12:13 -!- Agari [~Agari@4.Red-95-121-141.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:12:49 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:12:54 Corman Lisp looks "old", the date on the title page of the user guide is september 2006 and in the forums the last update for the product appears to be january 12 2007 20:13:13 lol, that's not old in lisp years 20:13:22 Saturnation: is that a question? 20:14:07 Saturnation: even LISP 1.5 (1960) is NOT old in lisp years: there are still programs written in LISP 1.5 running on current Common Lisp http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/wang.html 20:14:11 unhurried, a complete lack of urgency, no "exciting"ness 20:14:39 *not "excited" 20:15:03 OK, old was probably the wrong word. Perhaps not actively maintained might have been better? :) 20:15:31 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@pool-96-234-106-17.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:17:09 *Saturnation* must be used to Internet time (whatever that may be) 20:17:34 Saturnation: I beg to differ. LISP 1.5 is not actively maintained. Corman is. 20:18:29 is it? I don't see any active sign that it is 20:18:42 It still works on current hardware and OS. 20:18:43 just saying, if it is, it isn't obvious 20:18:49 -!- sharps [~hazel@ip-118-90-64-207.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has left #lisp 20:19:01 *Saturnation* is still evaluating it and was only making a comment 20:19:33 -!- jesusito [~user@220.pool85-49-234.dynamic.orange.es] has left #lisp 20:21:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-110.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:58 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:22:30 Saturnation: some context: http://www.bricklin.com/200yearsoftware.htm 20:23:41 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:24:13 well, thus far, the IDE is a bit better than SLIME 20:24:32 *Saturnation* turns off the running commentary... :) 20:24:38 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 20:26:45 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:27:06 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.131.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:13 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:28:58 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:31:05 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 20:31:11 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:19 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-175-107.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:31:26 does anyone in here know lisp and python, im trying to port some code that works in lisp to python and its not working perfectly and I alone cant figure out what is wrong 20:31:59 Facts of life... 20:32:12 PuffTheMagic: Best to just post the code and offer links 20:32:21 i thought python was sooo easy 20:33:38 here is the working lisp -> http://dpaste.com/449188/ 20:34:03 here is the questionable python -> http://dpaste.com/449190/ 20:34:37 You should better use char-code and code-char, assuming text properties are not supposed to change the checksum. 20:34:44 oudeis [~oudeis@64.134.98.188] has joined #lisp 20:34:55 pjb, in the lisp? 20:35:29 Yes. 20:35:31 the lisp is working, i dont want to touch that 20:35:42 I don't know python, I can help only on the lisp part. 20:36:03 PuffTheMagic: How about more info and how the python is not working? 20:36:08 s/and/on/ 20:36:14 Perhaps you should ask on #python. 20:36:30 i figured lispers would be more likely to know python that python people knoing lisp 20:36:36 perhaps, but I think PuffTheMagic is right that he is more likely to find people who understand both here 20:37:00 the code is used to send commands over tcp to a server that controls some eyetracking software 20:37:33 if i send the message once in pythong nothing happens, but if i send it a second time, the sever reponds 20:37:33 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:40 so im not sure if i missed something in the message format 20:37:44 of its its a socket/tcp issue 20:37:50 s/of/or/ 20:37:54 PuffTheMagic: Perhaps you could post some relevant input/output from both? 20:37:54 It's probably not a good idea to prefix the method names with an underline. Perhaps it's used for some internal things in python. 20:38:05 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:11 yeah, that's odd, but not likely relevant to it not working 20:38:13 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-220-88.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 20:38:36 kencausey, there server doesnt reply with anything over the socket for the command im testing, it just reacts 20:38:44 i send the command to start the calibration procedure 20:38:46 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-220-88.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:39:17 pjb, the _ makes them private methods in python 20:39:23 ok. 20:39:41 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:39:53 Why don't you name HEADER$ instead of header then? 20:39:58 Forget it. 20:40:00 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@64.134.98.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:40:23 are you sure the malfunction depends on the message? perhaps you're missing a flush... you didn't show the code that sends the message 20:41:02 astalla, no im not sure, im just trying to rule it out 20:41:23 there is no flush in python's socket lib, maybe i should switch to twisted like people tell me to 20:42:14 there's no flush in python's socket lib? I presume because it is too confusing? Whoa. 20:42:21 *tcr* is amazed to see slime show :initform values in make-instance's arglist 20:43:10 fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-237-31.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:43:24 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:43:35 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 20:43:39 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-212-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:45:26 no flush seems like a real wtf... maybe it's called another name, or it's done implicitly... if there's really no flush, then I'll ask to officially revoke the qualification "batteries included" for Python :D 20:45:50 LiamH1 [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 20:45:52 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:39 maybe it simply does no buffering. Also a wtf. 20:47:55 francogrex [~user@109.130.131.118] has joined #lisp 20:48:01 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.134] has quit [Quit: Offline] 20:49:23 MoALTz [~no@92.9.79.177] has joined #lisp 20:49:36 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:50:01 im gonna try twisted as thats what everyone always tells me to use in #python 20:50:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-145.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:50:07 base socket lib must suck 20:51:53 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:52:20 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-137-45.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 20:53:03 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-137-45.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:53:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:56:18 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:35 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-38-142-34.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:36 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:59:16 -!- gozoner [~ebg@64.134.236.202] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:59:22 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c108.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:00:22 it does no buffering, it's just a thin wrapper over the C socket library 21:00:26 (as it should be) 21:00:35 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:00:41 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:01:18 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:01:48 -!- jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:03:33 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.47.49] has joined #lisp 21:04:54 tcr: but not :default-initargs 21:07:30 tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:14 -!- misza222 [~misza@91.125.122.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:57 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:20:02 There's no slime-specific IRC channel, is there? If I'm eventually-interested in its development is there anything else than the slime-devel mailing-list I should know about/subscribe to? 21:20:16 maybe #emacs? 21:20:29 there's a bugtracker but the main maintainer does not care about it 21:20:33 it's the closest thing you can get :| 21:20:54 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.131.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:18 Who's the main maintainer? 21:21:32 ask on the mailing list what you're going to hack before you will do it in vain 21:21:32 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-137-45.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:22:08 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:12 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:22:12 tcr: Ok. I expect to lurk for some time before attempting anything, however. 21:22:26 mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 21:23:47 ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:24:38 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:09 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:28:17 Anyone can provide a quick summary of the current status of development of slime? Things like rough number of "active" maintainers, and are there still lots of work on it "in the background" or the project has "matured"?... Are there some CL libraries that provide extensions to slime for things like M-. of their own DEF* macros? 21:28:37 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:28:46 it's mature 21:28:54 mature. about three or more maintainers 21:28:57 that's not slime specific but you have to ask your implementator 21:29:08 there's an open issue in sbcl's tracker for it 21:29:50 Ok, thanks. 21:30:45 http://common-lisp.net/project/editor-hints/ has some ideas of mine for CL extensions to result in better editor integrability 21:33:29 -!- ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:34:18 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-212-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:34:24 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:34:36 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.9.79.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:34:54 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:01 Abezethibou [~user@212.253.250.115] has joined #lisp 21:35:36 tcr: Yes, that looks like a very awesome project! 21:35:49 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:35:53 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.47.49] has quit [Quit: Offline] 21:37:35 tcr: the documentation related stuff on the editor-hints page would IMO be very useful... 21:38:53 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-137-45.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:40:06 Indeed. It might encourage more documentation-writing. I think that would be good for Common Lisp. 21:41:25 tcr: On two differrent occasions I've made attempts to bridge Emacs *Help* with slime but I can't ever make it work b/c *Help* is inextricably Emacs and (emacs-lisp) specific. 21:41:25 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:28 newbie question. 21:41:39 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 21:41:39 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 21:41:39 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 21:41:51 I understand that the sequences functions provide an abstraction that can handle both lists and vectors. 21:42:00 so sequence is an implicit abstract data type. 21:42:11 Is there something analogous for associative arrays? 21:42:23 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:28 clhs gethash 21:42:30 I.e., a set of access functions that I can use with hashtables, plists, assoc lists,e tc.. 21:42:36 algal: No, though there are some examples of how that might be done (e.g. Norvig's table stuff) 21:42:55 mon_key: look at the source and documentation of named-readtables. The documentation is 100% generated from the source 21:42:58 Xach: interesting. Is his stuff online, or is it in one of his books? 21:43:06 I'm currently using sb-alien:deref to access some mmap()ed memory. But that is awfully slow - it seems that every 10th access or some a function is recompiled 21:43:15 algal: http://norvig.com/deftable.lisp 21:43:28 algal: I'm working on something like that, it should be available in a few months. ;) 21:43:31 mon_key: Or the source of sequence-iterators 21:43:33 What's the correct way to do fast access to mmap()ed data? 21:43:49 tcr: I took a look at nmd-rdtbls earlier this week :) 21:43:50 flip214: with a pointer dereference 21:44:13 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:44:28 foom: some hint for a function, please? I thought that a sap-alien is "just" a typed pointer 21:44:49 system-area-pointer is just a typed pointer 21:45:02 is it? 21:45:06 Hexstream: how does your plan compare with Norvig's stuff? 21:45:11 try sap-ref-32 21:45:23 Also, is there not already some kind of standard (available in quicklisp) for this kind of thing? 21:45:26 or 8 or 16 or 64 21:45:28 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:45:46 Or am I missing the point to perceive a need for it? 21:45:53 what's "typed pointer" here? 21:46:03 pointer type? 21:46:12 # 21:46:19 yea 21:46:23 you can use deref with that 21:46:26 sb-alien:deref 21:46:29 yea but that's not just a sap :-) 21:46:45 sbcl has two layers: 21:46:56 a SAP is just a wrapper for a pointer. 21:47:05 an ALIEN is a wrapper for a SAP and a type definition 21:47:30 algal: I don't know, I just learned of Norvig's stuff. Anyway, here's a "preview" of a broken incomplete subset of what I'll release in a few months: http://www.loopless.org/doc/Quick-Reference.html#Quick-Reference Basically I provide MAPCAR-like functions and DOLIST-like macros for processing of alists (whether cdr-valued or cadr-valued) and plists and hash-tables. 21:47:30 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:48:14 krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has joined #lisp 21:48:25 (The current version is not really ready for production use, there are some bugs and stuff.) 21:48:48 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:49:34 foom: should I use the same pointer for sap-ref-32 as I did with deref? Just changing deref to sap-ref-32 gives me a "heap corrupted" 21:50:30 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:50:36 flip214: er, what kind of object do you have? 21:50:52 flip214: if you made an alien object, use deref. if you skip the alien layer and have a sap, use sap-ref-N 21:51:01 Hexstream: interesting. 21:51:13 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:51:50 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 21:52:11 Hexstream: just reading your intro. 21:52:30 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:54 foom: It's solved now, I think. I had sb-posix:mmap converted into an alien, and giving that to sap-ref-32 corrupts the heap. without the sap-alien it works of course. 21:52:56 Yeah, well my intro is a bit heavy on LOOP bashing. My attitude has changed a lot since that time so take it with a grain of salt. 21:52:58 thank you very much! 21:53:19 Hexstream: I get the impression you're gloal is more general. anti-iteration, pro-HOFs. 21:53:54 tcr: It still isn't clear to me how named-readtables can be used to extend slime? 21:54:02 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:05 algal: Yes and no. Actually Loopless 2.0 will have an iteration facility somewhat similar to LOOP. 21:54:07 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 21:54:28 Hexstream: But it seems like the HOFs you define are still aware of the data-structures they act on, no? 21:54:29 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:54:32 mon_key: The editor can look for a WITH-READTABLE declaration like it would for a IN-PACKAGE and understand things better thanks to that. 21:54:54 good night everybody! 21:54:55 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:54:56 algal: I don't understand. Is it not already the case with, for instance, MAPCAR? 21:56:06 Anyone using SLIME with clisp? I just tried and it blew up trying to use swank-asdf.... 21:56:30 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:56:38 konr [~user@felix.lab.ic.unicamp.br] has joined #lisp 21:56:50 Hexstream: yeah. That's what I'm complaining about, tho. 21:57:02 milkpost [~milkpost@97-127-161-27.cdrr.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:19 Hexstream: tho I had alist/plist/hashtables in mind rather than lists/vectors 21:57:39 Hexstream: Yes, I understand this part. But wrt "The Editor" where she is not CL based named-readtables seems like the light lifting... as is swank FTM. The nuts is then getting "The Editor" to integrate cleanly with what CL is able to provide... 21:58:00 Ah, I think I understand what you mean. You mean that you have to use a function specific to the data structure you're mapping over? Well yes, but the difference is that the interface of the function you're passing is uniformized. So changing from alist to plist is as easy as, for instance: MAPALIST --> MAPPLIST 21:58:49 Hexstream: would be easier if it were MAPDICT -> MAPDICT tho, no? 21:59:05 Hexstream: like ELT and SETF are generalized. 21:59:21 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:32 algal: How would it distinguish between a cdr-valued alist, a cadr-valued alist and a plist, then? 21:59:39 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 21:59:45 Hexstream: But I don't know much really, so I'm sure there are good reasons why what I'm saying is not so straightforward as it seems to me. 21:59:49 These all look like just a list (and many other things) to CL's type system. 22:00:34 plage [~user@1.52.228.252] has joined #lisp 22:00:42 Good morning everyone! 22:00:58 Hexstream: yes, I see the problem. Like I said, newbie question. 22:00:58 -!- confounds [~confounds@CPE0013f7f0bd88-CM0013f7f0bd84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:18 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-212-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:03:53 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-212-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:04:17 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.39] has joined #lisp 22:07:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@194.48.133.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:08:04 -!- basho___ [~basho__@dslb-092-076-075-201.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:24 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 22:09:16 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-220-88.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:06 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:10:52 algal: however, you can wrap your cons-based data structure into a typed object, such as a structure or a CLOS object. 22:11:16 and then define method on those typed objects, to manipulate the conses as you want to. 22:11:55 algal: see for example http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=da5a65c9d6f0934d6312ef540b1b79de6be31407&hb=a78d355f14d88a86e420a63e6d2116587b006975&f=common-lisp/cesarum/dictionary.lisp 22:12:22 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.84.116] has joined #lisp 22:13:08 That seems like a bit of an heavyweight approach unless you have special needs... 22:13:16 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 22:13:48 pjb: interesting... 22:13:59 Hexstream: check the last class, adaptating-dictionary. ;-) 22:14:30 algal: notice that the performance cut-off between hash-table and list based maps is between 5 and 35 elements depending on the implementation. 22:14:51 Small dictionnaries are better implemented with a-list or p-list. 22:16:24 pjb: hmm... 22:17:33 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.84.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:17:55 pjb: this reminds me of elements of the java collections library. 22:18:04 pjb: (please don't take that the wrong way. :( ) 22:18:23 pjb: I just mean -- standardized interface over switchable implementations. 22:20:03 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.80] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:27 lemoinem [~swoog@188-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:43 rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:20:45 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:20:58 Well, that's the power of data abstraction: you can change the implementation. What would be the point if you didn't change it? Now of course, I guess you can count the programs worldwide who need to change their data structure implementations at run-time on the fingers of a single hand. 22:21:31 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:32 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.84.116] has joined #lisp 22:22:10 Also if the interface is the same over all collections, then performance would be very bad in most cases for most operations on most data structures. 22:22:28 What's with the clisp web page? 22:22:36 Agari [~Agari@4.Red-95-121-141.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:42 http://clisp.cons.org/ ? 22:22:56 :-( 22:22:57 Something is misconfigured. 22:23:01 clisp.org works though. 22:23:04 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 22:23:13 Use http://clisp.sourceforge.net/ instead. 22:23:22 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:25 ah. thanks. 22:23:40 what's the init file for this beast? I'm trying to get xmls tested.... 22:24:13 rpg: I have ~/.clisprc.lisp 22:24:35 sykopomp: thanks. 22:24:44 XMLS crashy on clisp. :-( 22:24:59 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:25:10 :( 22:25:26 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:25:40 rpg: really? I never had any problem with xmls. 22:26:26 pjb: seems unhappy with iso-8859-1 on clisp. 22:26:57 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:03 Well, that must be a mere problem with your file. IIRC, xmls doesn't open the file itself, taking instead a stream. You should open the file with the correct external format. 22:27:58 pjb: true, but the file tells you what external format to use. catch-22... 22:28:23 should make a processor that checks for that indicator, and then reopens stream with the right format. 22:28:29 Yes. You have to read it first in binary, extract the encoding information, close it and open it as text file with the right encoding. 22:29:04 pjb: Not sure how you do this with XML coming in on stream. Possibly XMLS needs entire refactoring... 22:29:10 I do that in http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=7b5d9bdfbb714921029c6afe82e30e1a1c5cbd8d&hb=a78d355f14d88a86e420a63e6d2116587b006975&f=tools/make-depends.lisp 22:29:33 Also XMLS not set up to parse a document partially. XMLS:PARSE wants to slurp everything... 22:29:43 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:30:06 rpg: you can try closure-xml 22:30:07 rpg: if you don't have a file, you need bivalent streams. I don't think clisp has them, but in clisp you can change the external-format on the fly. So you can start with iso-8859-1 to read the encoding, and then switch to whatever you need. 22:30:10 works perfectly for me 22:30:18 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:30:26 rpg: yes, it's a XML Simple reader. 22:30:27 Can I get an opinion on a style question? 22:30:33 algal: sure. 22:30:35 galdor: I'm maintaining xmls for people who continue to use it. As the maintainer, I can't really switch libraries ;-) 22:30:42 I'm doing some hacking on cl-mediawiki 22:30:43 algal: you can and should always ask anyways. 22:30:59 pjb: Thanks! I will see if I can fix that.... 22:31:03 rpg: you /could/ (; 22:31:04 rpg: I like it, it works well for me. 22:31:17 I've implemented a function get-revisions which will return a list of alists with revision info for an article. 22:31:30 it gets this from querying a wiki (e.g., wikipedia). 22:31:33 pjb: Did you see I just published a new version with fixed CDATA parsing? 22:31:51 I didn't have to use it recently. Thanks anyways. 22:32:13 the query also returns a token that tells you how to make the next query to return further results. 22:32:40 right now, the function get-revisions returns multiple values -- the results, and this continuation token (if present). 22:33:13 I'm wondering what is the best / most natural / lispiest way to extend this to make it easier to make repeated queries to pull down all the available data. 22:33:26 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:33:37 You're current way sounds sensible... 22:33:40 Your* 22:33:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-145.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:46 algal: Amazon's S3 bucket query works something like that. i have a query-response object that has a vector of results, and it can be interrogated to ask if there are more results, and if so, passed to a CONTINUE-QUERY function to get more results. 22:33:49 algal: provide a function to do so. get-all-revisions 22:33:57 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:21 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 22:34:37 Xach: interesting. 22:34:38 algal: Perhaps you could make a DO-REVISIONS macro. 22:34:46 I've got two plans now, but maybe they're not right. 22:34:57 plan 1, which I've implemented but don't quite like. 22:35:20 I define a dynamic variable *revisions* and then have a function accumulate-revisions that makes repeated calls to get-revisions. 22:35:42 And there's a function get-all-revisions that loops and builds up all results. 22:35:53 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-143-30.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:11 One thing I don't like is that I lose some of the original parameters I would pass on my first manual call to get-revisions. 22:36:15 -!- d2biG is now known as dRbiG 22:36:19 you can keep get-all-revisions. Otherwise, it's better to provide a do-revisions macro. 22:36:25 Also, the use of dynamic variable seems wrong. 22:36:40 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-90-52-4.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:44 Yes. It's useless. Let the client do the accumulation if he wants to. 22:36:50 Yeah. 22:37:13 Plan 2: I've written a get-revisions-with-continuation which returns (result, lambda). 22:37:27 The second return value is a callable function that returns the next batch of revisions. 22:37:44 This saves the client doing the parsing of the continuation token, passing it into the parameter etc.. 22:38:33 -!- churib [~churib@95.156.194.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:40 But it's still awkward because you need to do multiple-value-bind to get the closure. However the closure does correctly keep all the original calling parameters and context in a handy way. 22:39:16 dkasak_ [~dkasak@93-138-2-10.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 22:39:47 pjb: how would my do-revisions work? 22:40:22 algal: Basically it would do all the boring stuff internally that users would have to do themselves if it didn't exist. 22:40:24 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:40:47 Xach: so you're initial query returns the query response object? does it encapsulate the response data? or is that returned additionally to the response data? 22:40:47 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 22:41:23 Hexstream: but how would a user interact with it? (I can sort out the internals. I'm just trying to udnerstand the most idiomatic interface for it to present.) 22:41:42 timack [~tim@hlfx57-1-68.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 22:41:58 (do-revisions (results parameters...) (do-something-with results)) 22:42:03 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx57-1-68.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 22:42:11 (do-revisions (revision (compute-revisions-object-somehow)) (do-something-with-revision revision)) 22:42:11 Arelius [d0507552@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.80.117.82] has joined #lisp 22:42:14 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@93-138-71-233.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:42:20 clhs dolist 22:43:45 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-143-30.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 22:44:02 I need to write a client for a text based socket protocol, is there any rather small implementations for protocols like POP3, SMTP, HTTP in cl that would function as good examples more then good working versions? 22:44:20 timack [~tim@hlfx57-1-68.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 22:44:32 -!- Abezethibou [~user@212.253.250.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:47 I'm trying to find out how to interface with sockets, and more importantally, what's a good way to parse the text in a lisp style manner. 22:45:01 bhyde [~user@c-174-63-24-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:02 Arelius: for http there's drakma 22:45:08 and for pop/smtp, there's mel-base 22:45:09 Arelius: There's cl-smtp for smtp. 22:45:52 Would any of those provider a simplier or better formed set of code to examine? 22:46:20 astoon [~astoon@109.188.236.5] has joined #lisp 22:46:54 Arelius: Among those I'm pretty sure cl-smtp is the simplest. 22:46:58 rpg: http://common-lisp.net/project/xmls/xmls-1.4.1.tar.gz contains two copies of the sources 22:49:29 fe[nl]ix: wow. That's weird. I'll try to fix this weekend. 22:49:33 algal: it encapsulates the response data 22:50:26 fe[nl]ix: thanks! 22:52:08 I know there is alot of usenet flaming about this so i just need a quick clarification 22:52:22 Xach: thx 22:52:23 is (defpackage "FOO") readtable agnostic? 22:52:56 mon_key: in what sense? 22:53:19 would :downcase make the package-name "foo" 22:53:40 at top-level 22:53:47 mon_key: Depends. The semantics of ( depend on the current readtable. However, I'd expect an editor to recognize (defpackage "FOO") regardless of the current readtable, for better or for worse. 22:53:53 rpg: what's with that #+xmls-debug in xmls.asd ? I can't find norvig.asd anywhere 22:53:59 mon_key: no, it will unconditionally create a package named "FOO" 22:54:16 Xach: great! thanks 22:54:19 Oops, I thought you were talking about IN-PACKAGE o_o 22:55:39 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.236.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:56:02 so to reliably rely on find-package one should always pass a string? 22:56:07 mon_key: Readtable case only affects how symbols such as my-symbol will be READ by the lisp reader. The string "FOO" will never be affected by this. 22:56:22 mon_key: I like to use '#:package-name 22:56:25 mon_key: Doubtful. 22:57:05 can anyone tell me what force-output actually does, besides what CLHS would say 22:57:12 Which, depending on readtable-case, might be a designator for the string "PACKAGE-NAME" or "package-name", as appropriate. 22:57:59 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-143-30.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:03 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 22:58:04 PuffTheMagic: It flushes the output buffer. The OS or something else might otherwise wait for more input to process data in bulk for better efficiency. 22:58:11 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx57-1-68.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:58:13 Xach: (defpackage "foo") (find-package 'foo)=> nil (find-package "foo")=> # 22:59:09 (find-package 'foo) is equivalent to (find-package "FOO") with the default readtable case. 22:59:20 or i guess this: (find-package '|foo|) => # 22:59:36 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:46 Hexstream, how does it accomplish that though? 23:00:16 PuffTheMagic: Presumably the CL implementation would call the OS system call to do that... 23:00:34 Eatime. 23:00:37 Hexstream: hence my query about using strings when relying on find-package. 23:00:55 -!- rins [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:01:05 mon_key: Yeah. So '#:package-name won't bite you in this way. 23:01:28 -!- LiamH1 [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:02:38 Hexstream: howso? 23:03:12 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:03:26 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 23:03:29 mon_key: symbols can act as string designators for use in defpackage or find-package. whether those symbols designate upper- or lower-case strings depends on the reader settings. 23:03:46 mon_key: if you use symbols in both places, you don't need to know to what string it maps. 23:03:50 -!- plage [~user@1.52.228.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:57 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 23:04:23 Xach: so long as the value current-readtable is a constant? 23:05:09 Consistent, not constant. 23:05:22 fine :) 23:07:33 current-readtable has no impact on find-package/defpackage if a string is used to create/query that package object? 23:08:43 but not necessarily the inverse. That is my question. 23:09:02 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-113-71.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:09:02 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:09:11 timack [~tim@hlfx57-1-68.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:12:52 mon_key: what's the inverse? 23:13:36 (defpackage #:foo) 23:14:27 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7540eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:29 using a string affects how you can actually write code, e.g. (defpackage "foo" ...) might mean you have to write |foo|::bar, depending on readtable settings. 23:14:57 Xach: OH! I hand't considered that yet... 23:15:21 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-180.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:44 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.228] has joined #lisp 23:15:50 mon_key: what's more, allegro's "modern" mode means that "FOO" does not do what normal CL would do with the default settings. 23:16:02 some people take that as a good reason to use uppercase strings 23:16:18 So (defpackage "foo") isn't reader agnostic b/c the package qualifier may evaluate to itself 23:17:19 Xach: Yes, I caught myself reading the old Naggum/Foderaro stuff from circa 2002 the other evening. 23:17:50 -!- bhyde [~user@c-174-63-24-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:17:50 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:18:17 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:24 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:18:38 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:40 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 23:19:06 *Xach* can't parse "package qualifier might evaluate to itself" 23:19:35 MrPatience [~LordPatie@CPE-124-184-225-51.lns11.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:19:41 |foo|::*foo-var* 23:19:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:19:56 chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-93-182-106.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:20:19 and "evaluate to itself"? 23:21:35 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:21:50 -!- DukePatience [~LordPatie@CPE-121-216-29-116.lnse1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:03 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@97-127-161-27.cdrr.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:22:48 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:20 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:20 (defparameter *foo* nil) (setf *foo* (symbol-package (identity '*foo*))) 23:25:43 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:25:56 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-212-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:26:27 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:27:45 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-212-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:28:19 that doesn't make a lick of sense to me. 23:28:20 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:51 me either. 23:29:13 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:30:25 was confusing constant variable with a keyword. 23:32:13 In any event, thanks for you help. I will stick to #:foo and assume the environemnt is :upcase until it informs otherwise. 23:33:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:34:21 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.225] has joined #lisp 23:35:27 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:35:28 jnoos [setmeaway3@118.45.149.204] has joined #lisp 23:35:56 huangho [~vitor@201-35-145-107.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:38:00 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:07 Younder [~john@224.13.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 23:38:48 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:39:02 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:02 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-180.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:31 -!- krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:43 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:40:21 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@201.47.79.251.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 23:40:46 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.228] has joined #lisp 23:42:02 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-180.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:38 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:45:57 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-212-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:46:23 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:47:07 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.228] has joined #lisp 23:49:21 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:43 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 23:52:27 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-193-89.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:52:32 Joreji [~thomas@79-125.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:52:33 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-212-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:54:31 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d040179.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:58 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-137-45.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:56:08 -!- jnoos [setmeaway3@118.45.149.204] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:56:15 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.204] has joined #lisp 23:57:50 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:57:58 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-35-145-107.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:58:09 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.228] has joined #lisp 23:58:16 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 23:58:17 is anyone here familiar with clim development? 23:58:24 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-193-89.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:58:53 huangho [~vitor@189-10-151-215.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:59:07 I mean with the development *of* clim, not *using* clim 23:59:11 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:59:25 mcclim actually, of course 23:59:29 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:29 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 23:59:56 astalla: beach and hefner both have done serious work on mcclim in the past, if I recall correctly.