00:02:22 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:06:45 -!- timchen1` [tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:07:19 anyone see xkcd 859 yet? 00:07:44 (The one about unbalanced parens? 00:07:57 yeah and regexps :) 00:08:07 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.85.30] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 00:09:04 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-189-141.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 00:09:06 Actually, there are more right parentheses than left :-) 00:09:26 So unmatched left parentheses are only restoring the balance :-) 00:09:52 pjb howso? 00:09:57 :-) 00:09:59 So you say. (-: 00:10:18 Too bad Google doesn't work well on punctuation :-) 00:10:28 ... didn't we /just/ have this conversation? 00:10:43 like searching for "=:" 00:10:48 Help! We're trapped inside a loop :-) 00:11:30 Its a terrible crime that google returns 0 results for "=:" 00:12:01 ... Damnit. I keep grabbing my bluetooth mouse and trying to send the cursor off the right edge of the display of one computer and onto the left side of the display of the other machine. 00:12:06 It's an opportunity: literal.search.com 00:12:17 and: regexp.search.com 00:12:33 -!- AndroUser2 [~androirc@32.171.145.144] has quit [Quit: bye...] 00:12:43 <|3b|> nyef: tried synergy or similar? 00:14:16 |3b|: No. I'm aware that there's some software for this, but the problem has only cropped up over the past couple of days, so I haven't really checked any of it out yet. 00:15:45 *|3b|* doesn't even have a mouse for one of the machines on my desk, and the keyboard is usually sitting on a shelf out of the way 00:18:15 ... also does keyboard redirection? 00:18:23 <|3b|> yeah 00:18:55 <|3b|> and shares clipboards, maybe even keeps screen savers in sync 00:21:31 tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has joined #lisp 00:22:38 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe5ddc00-120.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 00:23:39 I've once used something that mirrored input devices 00:24:22 -!- Landr [~vser@78-22-154-231.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:29 -!- GreyHatLispHacke [~LilScheme@static-71-187-28-150.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:33 synergy works great 00:24:44 i use it all the time between my mac laptop and linux desktop 00:25:06 http://synergy-foss.org/ 00:27:22 synergy. that's what I was looking for. I had forgotten the name. 00:28:08 -!- hohum_ is now known as hohum 00:30:22 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@adsl-99-40-250-97.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:35:09 fusss [~fusss@1.156.254.183] has joined #lisp 00:35:21 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 00:35:28 quick question on matters aesthetics: 00:37:03 (restart-case (handler-case ((correctable-error (lambda (c) (invoke-restart 'correct-error)))) (BODY)) (correctable-error () (CORRECT)) 00:37:37 that's the usual template for trying something, and if an expected correctable error occurs, invoking a restart to fix it. 00:37:49 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:17 now, is there a clean way to re-execute (BODY) /after/ the correction? besides repeating (BODY) again in the restart body? 00:38:36 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:40:13 what I want is probably some kind of iterative construct that tries a body x-number of times, handling known errors and fixing them 00:40:26 alama [~alama@a79-169-87-41.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 00:41:01 pabst [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:13 *|3b|* seems to recall having seen recursion or tagbody+go for that 00:42:39 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:43:46 sabalaba [~sabalaba@173-10-44-57-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:09 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-102.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:44:12 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-102.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:44:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:45:19 simplest snippet http://paste.lisp.org/display/119597 00:45:23 fusss: LOOP may come handy. 00:45:42 pjb: :-) 00:45:45 <|3b|> yeah, (loop (restart-case ...)) seems common in google code search 00:46:09 this is the stupidest question evar! 00:46:25 of course, iteration .. i just expected something more "clever" 00:46:48 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-152-244.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:47:08 Since restart is called restart, there's some looping conotation in it, indeed. 00:47:26 yes, otherwise this "restart" is just a goto 00:47:43 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 00:48:36 <|3b|> isn't looping just a goto? 00:50:13 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:50:17 |3b|: with test/condition (if you don't use simple LOOP) 00:53:52 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has left #lisp 00:56:14 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.17.75] has joined #lisp 01:00:44 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 01:01:34 -!- keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:55 Hmm, does anyone know why bittorrent trackers are only sending me one peer on the response? 01:02:44 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:45 keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:45 drdo: because they don't like you^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H I have no idea. 01:02:50 ;P 01:03:06 I'm just a poor lonely lisp programmer, how would I know? 01:03:14 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-87-41.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 01:03:25 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 01:03:47 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:04:00 Eh, i'm implementing a bittorrent client library 01:04:16 I think it might be because of those newer extensions for distributed peer sharing 01:04:20 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:04:27 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:36 Or perhaps it's not a popular torrent? 01:04:41 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:27 pjb: tried with a few torrents with lots of peers 01:05:34 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:05:38 and tried quite a few trackers 01:05:47 they consistently respond with only one peer 01:07:05 It's always the same peer too 01:07:14 even for different trackers 01:07:17 drdo: Compare with a known-good implementation? 01:07:32 Use tcpdump 01:08:07 wireshark might be of some help 01:08:08 Is it just me or the standard is completely silent on what happens if you have conflicting declarations within a same list of declarations? What about (declare (optimize (speed 0) (speed 3)))? What about (declare (inline foo) (notinline foo))? What about (declare (ignore foo) (ignorable foo))? 01:08:53 notinline and inline are NOT conflicting. 01:09:06 Otherwise, it's not conforming, so dragons and noses. 01:09:25 ignore and ignorable are not conflicting either. 01:09:33 (ignore => ignorable) 01:09:33 pjb: how does (declare (ignore foo) (ignorable foo)) conflict? 01:09:42 pjb: ah, ok 01:09:45 *madnificent* was too slow 01:09:45 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:38 What does (ignore => ignorable) mean?... 01:10:50 Ignore goes to ignorable?... 01:10:52 It means that any variable that you ignore is ignorable. 01:11:14 If it wasn't ignorable, you could not ignore it. 01:11:45 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.11.10.82] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:12:11 What about inline and notinline? 01:12:21 I think notinline wins? 01:12:23 This is more sophisticated. 01:12:38 ie. reading clhs again is in order. 01:13:02 IIRC, inline "suggests" to inline, while notinline requires not to inline... 01:14:16 pjb: I checked the raw data, they are really only sending one 01:14:28 clhs inline gives an explicit example of both inline and notinline. 01:14:44 drdo: compare the packets with another implementation that gets several responses. 01:14:51 I want to make something that will merge and "normalize" declarations, so I need to handle any conflicts correctly... 01:15:14 pjb: good idea 01:15:17 -!- ale` [~user@109.255.54.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:15:25 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 01:15:26 Hexstream: you may overlay your own semantics and priorities. 01:16:03 Hrm... 01:16:05 clhs inline 01:16:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_inline.htm 01:16:16 clhs inline gives an explicit nonsense 01:16:20 ... Hunh. 01:16:25 ppc eieio 01:16:26 Enforce In-Order Execution of I/O: http://www.nersc.gov/vendor_docs/ibm/asm/eieio.htm#idx390 01:16:44 No, it allows the function to be inline for some local functions, and notinline for the rest of the program. 01:16:47 Oh well. 01:16:53 -!- pers [~user@174-24-52-78.clsp.qwest.net] has left #lisp 01:16:56 srid [~srid@S0106001d7e1acafc.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:05 <|3b|> pjb: when used in a singe declare (as opposed to 2 declaims)? 01:17:08 Doing both in the same declaration should give notinline. 01:17:09 <|3b|> *single 01:17:26 pjb: Regardless of ordering? 01:17:34 -!- fusss [~fusss@1.156.254.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:17:34 There's a problem with inline and recursive calls. Most implementations fail on that. 01:18:02 But I'd expect a good compiler to be able to deal, and detect eg. base cases, and generate inline calls for some recursive calls. 01:18:04 If the order of declarations can matter I'm in for a world of pain... 01:18:13 No, order of declaration never matters. 01:19:06 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC2283D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:19 Yeah, that really wouldn't make sense. Though I'd like it if intuitive but important details like this were always explicit in the spec.. 01:19:51 It was done this way to avoid inconsistencies. 01:20:09 It would be nicer if we could at least infer a formal specification... 01:21:14 -!- twopoint718 [~chris@ppp-70-226-171-28.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 01:21:15 I have a lot of "what if?..." thoughts and then I check in the spec in multiple places where it might be specified and then it's said nowhere... 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[Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:45:28 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:46:12 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:46:39 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.211] has joined #lisp 03:48:13 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.87.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:48:37 Turns out it was my bencode implementation not ordering the dictionary when encoding, thus the sha1 digest coming up wrong 03:48:48 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:50:05 -!- Phillip [~Phillip@c-75-72-99-111.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:54:16 Does ccl store (simple-array double-float (*)) arrays in a contiguous chunk of memory of unboxed double-floats? If so, is there a way to get the address of that chunk of memory? 03:57:06 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-117-158.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:13 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:57:14 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:57:25 *rme* plays kibo 03:57:25 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 03:57:33 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 03:57:51 rtoy: it's not safe to use an internal pointer to access any object in ccl 04:00:20 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:00:54 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@66.87.1.110] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 04:01:04 rtoym: ccl's gc will move stuff around on you, so it doesn't really make sense to ask for a pointer to the underlying raw contents of an array. 04:01:23 rme: No? I was wondering on the possibility of running matlisp with ccl and it wants to allow foreign code to access the contents so that a copy isn't made. 04:02:12 What if I disable GC around the call? And maybe turn off interrupts? 04:03:24 madrik [~madrik@122.168.246.46] has joined #lisp 04:04:53 Well, if you used ccl:without-gcing, I suppose you could safely do it. You could also use ccl:make-heap-ivector, which would allocate the array in foreign memory so that the gc wouldn't move it. 04:06:06 although make-heap-ivector just does vectors and not multidimensional arrays... 04:09:33 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:15 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-102.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:10:27 For cmucl, sbcl, and allegro, matlisp turns off gc during the call. Matlisp only needs 1D arrays. Does a make-heap-ivector look just like a Lisp vector? Does it have to be explicitly GCed? 04:10:31 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-102.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:11:13 Anyway, I was just wondering if matlisp should support ccl or not. 04:11:14 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:33 you have to explicitly dispose heap ivectors 04:12:42 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:15 So, it would be nicer to get access to the raw contents. 04:13:22 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:14:16 Matlisp should probably also use cffi, but I haven't figured out if cffi will allow you to access the raw contents. Maybe that can be faked. 04:16:22 Could also just implement a lisp library for that :) 04:16:53 For what? 04:17:06 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:17:09 For whatever it is that Matlisp uses FFI for? 04:17:23 (Let me guess... BLAS or LAPACK?) 04:17:34 nyef: yep 04:17:56 Are you volunteering to write ATLAS in Lisp? :-) 04:18:13 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.10] has joined #lisp 04:18:14 Not I, I'd probably screw it up royally. 04:18:15 One way to get a pointer to the raw data is (ccl:%int-to-ptr (+ target::misc-data-offset (ccl::%address-of my-array))). 04:18:24 Not me, i have no need or interest :P 04:18:25 you'd have to do that inside without-gcing, of course 04:19:00 Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:19:25 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-218-181.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 04:19:43 There are many things that are worth writing/rewriting in Lisp, but LAPACK/ATLAS is not one of them. 04:20:32 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx58-2a-209.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:56 rme: Sure. That's what's already done for cmucl and sbcl. I'll have to think a bit more about whether it's worthwhile to do. 04:21:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:21:44 What, you don't use vector-data-sap? 04:23:10 I do use vector-sap. (I think. It didn't before, until I learned of vector-sap much later.) I was commenting on having to turn off GC before getting the address. 04:23:51 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-102.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:24:34 ... And I know SBCL has an object-pinning mechanism, so you don't necessarily need to kill the GC for this stuff. 04:24:53 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:26:20 (Doesn't work worth a damn on cheneygc, though, ends up turning into without-gcing.) 04:26:30 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:26:43 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:32:20 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-64-51.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:32:41 Does the pinning work on sbcl/ppc? Just curious. I vaguely remember the pinning was done by putting the address on the stack or something like that. 04:33:14 (sbcl/ppc with gencgc, that is. Which, IIRC, isn't conservative.) 04:34:30 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-161-175.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:46:51 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-102.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:48:05 -!- madrik [~madrik@122.168.246.46] has left #lisp 04:53:36 -!- jleija [~jleija@c-98-199-38-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:59:52 madrik [~madrik@122.168.246.46] has joined #lisp 05:00:45 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.222] has joined #lisp 05:01:57 nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-102.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:07:52 -!- davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:08:09 slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 05:17:40 Yanksrule [~Yanksrule@c-66-30-168-93.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:56 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 05:21:33 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:23:36 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:27:53 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 05:29:44 -!- Yanksrule [~Yanksrule@c-66-30-168-93.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:32:30 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:33:18 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:33:22 smithzv [~smithzv@c-71-237-75-86.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:07 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:27 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:49 -!- NihilistDandy [~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37:00 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:40:22 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-117-158.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:50:32 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 05:52:30 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:53:48 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:54:51 ilowhy_ [~ilowhy@183.83.53.180] has joined #lisp 05:58:36 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:58:58 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:00:42 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:57 You know, I have problems locating reader errors of the form "Error at position 1024". How does that translate into a line number? 06:09:05 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@65.29.100.201] has joined #lisp 06:09:13 ZabaQ: M-x goto-char RET 1024 RET 06:09:15 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 06:09:16 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:09:33 M-g g 1024 RET works too. 06:09:46 Oops, no, M-g g is goto-line... 06:10:29 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.220.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:10:30 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 06:10:46 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:10:47 Liera [~Liera@123.20.29.55] has joined #lisp 06:11:07 ah, thanks pjb 06:11:10 nice tip 06:12:20 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-8-91.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 06:12:26 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:15:35 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 06:16:00 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-8-91.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:09 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:18:52 -!- Liera [~Liera@123.20.29.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:18:57 Liera` [~Liera@123.20.62.22] has joined #lisp 06:20:44 -!- Liera` is now known as Liera 06:21:17 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 06:23:44 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:55 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:46:32 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:47:51 It must be possible to set the slot value of a :class allocated slot without having an object of that class to hand? 06:47:56 but how? 06:56:07 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:53 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:59:28 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA379A9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:59:50 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:02:19 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.235.213] has joined #lisp 07:02:43 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:05:12 ZabaQ: hmm. you mean an init argument? 07:08:30 Hmm. I actually need metaclass to do this 07:08:37 Good afternoon everyone! 07:10:00 08:00 in the morning here, but hey, good afternoon anyway. :) 07:10:41 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 07:12:29 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:14:18 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-218-181.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:17:08 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:17:55 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 07:19:58 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:20:17 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 07:31:07 -!- ilowhy [~ilowhy@124.124.225.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31:07 -!- ilowhy_ is now known as ilowhy 07:31:14 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 07:34:20 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 07:35:13 M-sprite [~M-sprite@60.183.247.16] has joined #lisp 07:37:54 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@173-10-44-57-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:38:48 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:39:41 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B327F24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:58 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B3F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:40:32 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:40:32 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 07:42:37 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:43:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@65.29.100.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:43:18 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:44:30 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-132-104.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:35 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:55 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:50:43 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 07:51:05 ZabaQ: no, it's not possible. But you may use the class prototype to do that. 07:51:21 ZabaQ: but it's probably simplier to just make an instance than to find the class prototype. 07:54:21 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:54:42 -!- JuniorRoy [~JuniorRoy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:55:45 pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 07:56:53 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:34 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:00:36 -!- whee [~whee@cpe-69-207-157-162.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:25 whee [~whee@cpe-69-207-157-162.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:02:40 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-180-226.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:04:02 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:05 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-243-237.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:09:36 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 08:12:16 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:15:14 morning lispers 08:25:22 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:30:17 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:55 -!- nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:33:07 astoon [~astoon@109.188.242.183] has joined #lisp 08:34:14 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.93.119] has quit [Quit: ] 08:40:40 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:15 hello kiuma 08:43:16 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has joined #lisp 08:45:45 -!- ozzloy_ is now known as ozzloy 08:46:27 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Changing host] 08:46:28 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 08:46:30 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:46:58 colin_ [~colin@hung-jung.com.tw] has joined #lisp 08:47:07 hi 08:47:21 please how can I call a function stored in a variable? 08:47:36 funcall? 08:47:40 ah ok 08:47:45 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-67-156.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:47:52 like (remove-if-not selector ...) 08:48:02 where selector is a predicate 08:49:00 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-132-104.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:50:49 -!- colin_ [~colin@hung-jung.com.tw] has quit [Client Quit] 08:50:50 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-20-80.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:51:25 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-180-226.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:53:11 Ragnaroek [5b0c59d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.12.89.214] has joined #lisp 08:54:22 MrSandwich [~user@c114-76-32-177.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:56:39 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-217-54.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:58:33 Posterdati: In that case, remove-if-not calls it for you, so you don't have to worry about it. 08:59:07 beach: but I've to find an element position in a list according to searching keys 08:59:29 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:59:43 Posterdati: remove-if-not doesn't find the position of an element. 08:59:53 beach: I know 09:00:13 I wrote "like" remove-if-not 09:00:36 Posterdati: OK so is calling a function stored in a variable "like" remove-if-not? 09:01:02 Posterdati: Do you mean "just the way the function remove-if-not must do"? 09:02:53 Posterdati: Or perhaps you mean that you have a function [defined using defun] called selector, and you need to pass it to remove-if-not? 09:03:28 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:03:34 adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:00 Posterdati: Because that last case is exactly the opposite of "calling a function stored in a variable" namely "passing a function defined with defun as an argument to another function". 09:05:38 tfb [~tfb@94.197.70.46.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:06:50 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 09:06:59 beach: yes, exactly 09:07:06 beach: I solved with defun 09:07:11 sorry 09:07:17 beach: I solved with funcall 09:11:01 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 09:15:48 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 09:17:36 SuChek [~SQ@62-47-217-182.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:18:25 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:24:44 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 09:30:47 mornign 09:31:04 ng, even. more coffee needed 09:31:28 interesting posts for maxima 09:31:30 lol 09:31:57 claint [~user@88.247.119.253] has joined #lisp 09:32:57 analytic penetration and absolute defenders, lol awesome 09:35:17 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:37:02 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:51 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 09:41:28 Hello nikodemus. Where are you working these days? 09:41:49 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.225] has joined #lisp 09:43:06 coldnew [~coldnew@ymu041-045.ym.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 09:44:45 ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 09:45:29 how can I extract from a list the n-th element? 09:45:34 aref? 09:45:36 -!- coldnew [~coldnew@ymu041-045.ym.edu.tw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:31 clhs nth 09:46:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_nth.htm 09:46:49 good! thanks 09:47:10 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.242.183] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:47 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:50:59 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.99] has joined #lisp 09:51:50 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756d25.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:53 RaceCondition [~erik@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe5ddc00-120.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:01:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-102.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:04:09 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:06:33 beach: customer stuff, some of it sbcl, some of it not 10:06:47 optimizations mostly 10:07:18 i still have some wip sbcl projects i should finish when i have the time: better backtraces, etc 10:07:38 how's your work? 10:08:03 nikodemus: Great right now! Still enjoying the change of environments. 10:08:28 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-102.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:08:54 astoon [~astoon@109.188.242.183] has joined #lisp 10:09:18 nikodemus: So you are still self employed? 10:09:18 10:09:56 yep 10:10:05 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-62.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:11:07 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-62.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:11:35 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-62.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:12:15 That's good news I guess. 10:13:18 pabst [~anonymous@70-36-139-45.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:50 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:14:14 it is! 10:14:27 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:17:35 -!- museun [~what@c-98-252-140-73.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:20:38 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-140-77.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 10:20:57 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.70.46.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: gone] 10:22:41 -!- claint [~user@88.247.119.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:30:21 Did the #- #+ and *features* gubbins emerge with the CL standard, or was it inspired by an earlier Lisp? 10:30:31 just curious 10:31:24 -!- pabst [~anonymous@70-36-139-45.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:40:48 -!- keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:43:56 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-140-77.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:44:03 |Wolf|-1| [~x@dyn57-215.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 10:44:17 zmv [~daniel@c934a93a.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 10:45:06 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:13 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 10:47:25 museun [~what@c-98-252-140-73.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:12 -!- madrik [~madrik@122.168.246.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:52:21 madrik [~madrik@122.168.245.246] has joined #lisp 10:52:50 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.242.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:53:19 Kenjin [~josesanto@83.240.225.146] has joined #lisp 10:53:47 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-243-237.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:56:50 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:59:35 spearalot [~spearalot@host-90-238-111-154.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:02:47 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03:16 -!- Xantoz_ is now known as Xantoz 11:05:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:09:23 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 11:10:46 oh, nibbles looks nice! 11:11:05 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-166-112.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 11:12:06 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A206.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 11:26:58 -!- fmu is now known as ronpaul 11:27:37 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 11:28:14 -!- ronpaul is now known as fmu 11:28:36 -!- |Wolf|-1| [~x@dyn57-215.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Switching to single-player mode.] 11:29:38 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30:39 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:31:34 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:34:13 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-130-206.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 11:34:56 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:09 colbseton [~colbseton@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-23-43.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:38:05 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:39:11 -!- colbseton [~colbseton@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-23-43.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 11:40:52 coldnew [~coldnew@ymu041-045.ym.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 11:45:06 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-244-138.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 11:46:25 -!- Ragnaroek [5b0c59d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.12.89.214] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:52:52 mega1 [~user@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 -!- madrik [~madrik@122.168.245.246] has quit [Quit: study] 11:55:12 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 11:55:47 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 12:02:03 astoon [~astoon@109.188.244.84] has joined #lisp 12:05:28 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 12:06:30 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 12:09:50 -!- antgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:10:17 carlocci [~nes@93.37.200.188] has joined #lisp 12:14:53 Blkt [~Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-34-26-111.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:18:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:20:57 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-188-224.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:44 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-140-77.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:24:54 good day everyone 12:28:36 hello Blkt 12:28:55 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-140-77.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:30:33 hi Blkt 12:33:12 hi! :D 12:33:46 colbseton [~colbseton@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-23-43.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:36:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:38:32 morning folks 12:41:39 good morning 12:41:45 hun [~user@91-65-90-50-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:42:10 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:43:03 morning slyrus 12:43:57 SvChek [~SQ@62-47-192-82.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:46:26 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has left #lisp 12:46:50 -!- SuChek [~SQ@62-47-217-182.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:50:54 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:56:00 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 13:00:36 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-102.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:00:49 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-177.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:05:08 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:05:47 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:07:25 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:10 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:16:44 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 13:19:08 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-224-129.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:20:50 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:21:07 keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:39 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-177.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:53 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 13:28:16 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:30:23 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:58 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:31:30 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:34:36 Sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:43 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@60.183.247.16] has quit [Quit: I need to code or sleep now .] 13:34:46 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 13:34:53 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-166-112.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:18 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.244.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:35:36 tfb [~tfb@94.197.70.46.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:36:44 M-sprite [~M-sprite@60.183.247.16] has joined #lisp 13:39:32 *slyrus* finally realizes that "dynamic programming language" doesn't mean what he was hoping it meant 13:39:52 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 13:41:48 slyrus: did you think that they're designed for dynamic programming? 13:41:59 that's what I was hoping... 13:42:19 this was in reference to some new-ish lisp somebody announced on reddit 13:42:48 otherwise it didn't sound that interesting, but if they had some special support for dynamic programming, that sounded kinda neat 13:43:14 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:27 alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has joined #lisp 13:43:32 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 13:43:39 slyrus: dynamic programming being metaprogramming? In the good sense 13:43:42 slyrus: just to be clear, i meant this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_programming 13:43:57 stassats: yes, me too 13:44:14 ok, because it's easy to confuse 13:45:06 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:19 maybe it should be "active programming languages" 13:45:40 can't you get that in CL to some extent by memorizing the results? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoization 13:46:21 -!- MrSandwich [~user@c114-76-32-177.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:41 dynamic programming must be the misnomer of the last century, though. did you see the article about how the term came about? 13:47:01 yeah, it's neither dynamic, nor programming 13:47:03 nikodemus: sounds vaguely familiar, but I can't remember the details. do you have a link? 13:47:18 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-188-224.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:47:52 nikodemus: thanks for giving me a reason to waste my morning on reddit :) 13:47:53 basically, "i needed term to describe what i did, which could not point to mathematics in any way, and it should sound positive", because "that was the only way to get funding at the time" 13:48:02 heh 13:48:33 some darpa big-shot apparently hated mathemathics, and shot down all grant proposals that sounded mathy 13:48:46 (maybe it wasn't darpa, but anyways) 13:49:30 beach: around? 13:49:55 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:50:51 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:56:39 that's elitary cheating 13:58:20 EarlGray [~dmytrish@beting-proceeds.volia.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:57 hi 13:59:58 please 14:00:12 how can I exit for a dolist loop? 14:01:25 RETURN 14:02:04 nikodemus: does it exit the function too? 14:02:10 y 14:02:13 DOLIST -- as do several other standard constructs -- encloses its body in a (BLOCK NIL ...), so (RETURN-FROM NIL ..) or (RETURN ..) works fine 14:02:14 (dolist (x (list 1 2 3 4 5)) 14:02:14 nikodemus: or just exit from loop? 14:02:14 (if (= x 3) 14:02:14 (return x))) 14:02:54 you may use return-from if you specify a block before, but I think wrapping into a function may be clearer 14:03:09 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 14:03:14 urandom__ [~user@p548A5773.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:24 Posterdati: RETURN returns from the nearest BLOCK named NIL, functions name their blocks with their own name: (defun foo (x) (return-from foo x)) -- not (return x) 14:04:30 so, (dolist ... (return ...) ...) returns from the dolist 14:05:07 ok thanks 14:06:35 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:07 nikodemus: when does a nil block occur? lambda? 14:08:42 Blkt: DOLIST, DOTIMES, DO, PROG, from the top of my head. LAMBDA doesn't introduce a block 14:08:42 Blkt: in specific operators. 14:09:39 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:09:45 I see 14:09:50 thanks 14:14:23 mbrezu [~user@178.156.179.144] has joined #lisp 14:14:43 hmm, i'm using sbcl's WITH-PROILING, but i can't seem to generate any interesting output 14:14:49 WARNING: No sampling progress; possibly a profiler bug 14:14:56 number of samples: 0 14:15:06 *WITH-PROFILING 14:16:00 alama: are you using :mode :time or :mode :cpu? are multiple threads involved? how long does your profiling run last? 14:16:54 nikodemus: i was using :mode :cpu; multiple threads are not involved; the profiling run (i.e., the evaluation of the form i'm interested in) lasts about 5 minutes 14:17:28 alama: sbcl version and os? 14:17:50 nikodemus: sbcl 1.0.45, mac os x 10.6.6 14:19:28 alama pasted "sbcl empty profiling (?)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119605 14:20:50 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-153-203.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:21:35 nikodemus: this is my first time working with the profiler; i suppose i'm misusing it 14:21:55 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 14:23:00 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:24:00 same behavior here 14:24:05 used to work in the past 14:24:18 xristos: hmm, ok, thanks for checking 14:24:51 alama: have you tried using slime-sprof? 14:25:07 mega1_ [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 14:25:07 -!- mega1_ [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 14:25:11 stassats: no, i haven't -- how does it work? 14:25:44 you do M-x slime-sprof-strat ... run your code ... and do M-x slime-sprof-report and see a nicely represented results 14:25:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:26:03 you first need to enable it, by putting slime-sprof into slime-setup call 14:27:37 alama: can you replace (itemize ...) with (print (list :ints sb-int::*interrupts-enabled*)) (time (itemize ...)) 14:28:00 and put in :threads :all into the with-profiling, just in case 14:28:13 i always had this problem when using sb-sprof directly 14:28:25 but never with slime-sprof 14:28:47 i always use it directly 14:29:16 nikodemus: ok, running now 14:29:40 the main advantage of slime-sprof is not that it works more consistently, but that it's much more easy to inspect and navigate the results 14:29:56 stassats: cool, once i get done with nikodemus's request, i'll restart slime with slime-sprof i slime-setup, as you suggest 14:30:05 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:10 -!- mbrezu [~user@178.156.179.144] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:30:28 alama: you don't need to restart it, you can just (slime-setup '(slime-stuff ... slime-sprof)) C-x C-e 14:30:42 stassats: ok, cool, will do 14:35:51 -!- coldnew [~coldnew@ymu041-045.ym.edu.tw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:30 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-62.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:40:16 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-224-129.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:41:15 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@122.238.75.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:26 xinming [~hyy@115.221.8.108] has joined #lisp 14:43:45 -!- SvChek [~SQ@62-47-192-82.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 14:43:54 alama annotated #119605 "following nikodemus's suggestion" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119605#1 14:46:58 -!- nurv101 [~nurv101@2001:690:2100:2:4687:fcff:fe91:9c05] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:22 alama: interesting 14:48:03 alama: what's you swank:*communication-style*? 14:48:04 nikodemus: yeah 14:48:30 nikodemus: :spawn 14:48:32 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:48:58 trying stassats's suggestion of doing this in slime using slime-sprof 14:49:07 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:49:42 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:50:32 oh wait, OS X... 14:50:42 SIGPROF is strange there 14:51:29 basically, if you have multiple threads on OS X (which you do if you're running slime with :spawn), you're not going to get much mileage from sb-sprof 14:51:55 nikodemus: ah, i see 14:51:59 is there a workaround? 14:52:15 i suspect (setf swank:*communication-style* :fd-handler) in ~/.swank.lisp and restarting, or profiling from a naked sbcl in terminal should help 14:52:31 or you can try :mode :time -- it's wallclock, but it can be instructive 14:53:03 slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 14:53:27 (a minor caveat, i just realized there may be something wrong with :time earlier this week, but i haven't tracked it down yet) 14:53:39 MoALTz [~no@92.11.10.82] has joined #lisp 14:53:44 please I need to print out 0.5 instead 1/2 14:54:07 (coerce x 'float) 14:54:16 thanks 14:54:27 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:54:28 nikodemus: ok, i'll add that setf to my ~/.swank.lisp and restart 14:55:03 (float 1/2) 14:55:20 (format t "~f" 1/2) 14:56:16 tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has joined #lisp 14:58:32 xan_ [~xan@80.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:59:27 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:59:41 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:00:19 mathrick [~mathrick@188.147.83.99.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:00:38 rtoym: ping 15:01:07 fe[nl]ix: hi 15:01:11 hi Blkt 15:02:34 nikodemus: i do now get some interesting output -- thanks! 15:03:33 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-118-167.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:08:49 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-87.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:09:11 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:10:27 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-62.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:11:14 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@188.147.83.99.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:11:20 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:11:48 wow, my code runs much faster when i set swank:*communication-style* to :fd-handler (though i don't get the nice running output that my code produces -- everything just gets printed in one big go at the end of evaluation) 15:12:10 why is that? 15:12:22 alama: that's the reason 15:12:25 (printing) 15:12:34 (i guess) 15:12:37 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:12:38 yeah, i suppose so 15:12:49 it just surprises me how dramatic the difference is 15:13:17 it takes 30 seconds to do the evaluation using :fd-handler; more than 10 times longer with :spawn 15:13:35 alama: do you use slime? 15:13:37 i'm not, since it goes through network 15:13:42 alama: yeah 15:13:58 -!- zmv is now known as nobody 15:14:19 alama: can you try putting (setf swank:*use-dedicated-output-stream* t) in .swank.lisp? 15:14:21 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-188-224.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:32 with :spawn, and tell me the times 15:14:44 -!- nobody is now known as zmv 15:15:15 mathrick [~mathrick@188.147.53.3.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:15:38 stassats: k, working on it 15:16:10 if you want to be real fast, remove all printing altogether 15:16:19 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 15:16:21 stassats: this is about as slow as before 15:16:43 stassats: how might i do that? (without killing all the format and warn statements, that is) 15:17:28 you could include your statements conditionally, like #+debug(format t "98 bottles on the wall") 15:17:56 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:13 and you can switch them on/off by fiddling *features* 15:18:20 stassats: cool, never thought of that 15:18:30 or making a macro which will do a similar thing 15:19:26 like (defmacro debug-format (...) (if *debugging* `(format ....))) 15:19:58 cool 15:21:25 alama: another non-invasive thing, try setting *print-pretty* to NIL 15:21:46 stassats: hmm, looks like the --noprint option in sbcl might help, too (i'm doing a bunch of work with a saved lisp image and don't care about the output) 15:21:57 like (let (*print-pretty*) (time (your-code))) 15:22:10 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:25 alama: --noprint wouldn't help 15:22:34 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:22:37 it's only for rePl 15:23:27 another non-invasive, output-discarding way: (let ((*standard-output* (make-broadcast-stream))) (your-code)) 15:24:29 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 15:24:48 stassats: very cool 15:25:26 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:06 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:30:33 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:34 hmm, how can i suppress output that gets generated through WARN? 15:30:47 muffling *standard-output* does't muffle WARN's output 15:31:02 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has joined #lisp 15:31:06 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-130-206.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 15:31:18 me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-250-229.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:16 it's better to fix warnings, unless they're stylish 15:33:28 otherwise:(let* ((*standard-output* (make-broadcast-stream)) (*error-output* *standard-output*)) ...) 15:33:57 you can also do the handler-bind/muffle thing 15:34:23 i wonder, what's faster 15:34:25 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 15:34:39 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:36:10 (handler-bind ((warning #'muffle-warning)) ...) turns out to be faster 15:38:13 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 15:38:16 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:22 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:39:09 hrm... my quadratic interpolation sort of works, but yields an ugly moire pattern... 15:41:57 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.17.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:05 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-87.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:51 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:46:38 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.17.75] has joined #lisp 15:49:48 thmzlt [~thomaz@24-207-254-235.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:55:57 coldnew [~coldnew@ymu041-045.ym.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 15:56:12 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 16:01:10 -!- alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:01:41 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:02:43 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:03 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:06:27 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:08:32 Virunga [~GV_@151.61.248.154] has joined #lisp 16:12:40 catnap [~tommi@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ffd0c300-37.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:15:18 !pastebin 16:15:30 !pastelisp 16:15:39 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:15:43 -!- Virunga [~GV_@151.61.248.154] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 16:15:51 lisppaste: url? 16:15:52 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 16:17:41 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:20:04 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@60.183.247.16] has quit [Quit: go to sleep now] 16:22:48 fe[nl]ix: Looking for me? 16:23:51 claint [~user@88.247.119.253] has joined #lisp 16:24:38 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-210-34.ip56.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:24:45 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:58 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:26:48 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:28:30 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:30:25 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:17 -!- csamuelson [~csamuelso@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:32:47 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:35:48 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-132-104.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:33 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 16:38:09 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:38:35 timack [~tim@142.177.8.98] has joined #lisp 16:39:33 -!- pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:41:26 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:41:54 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 16:43:39 csamuelson [~csamuelso@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:51 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:43:56 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:45:37 _mathrick [~mathrick@188.147.98.69.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:45:58 rtoym: http://gitorious.org/iolib/static-vectors/ 16:46:53 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@188.147.53.3.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:16 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 16:47:27 gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:38 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:48:00 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 16:48:14 Nice. I guess. Hard to tell by just looking at that. :-) 16:48:40 rtoym: a portabel interface to static vectors 16:48:56 good, perhaps, for matlisp 16:50:16 What do you do? Stick a header object in front of the data area? Does GC know to GC these? 16:50:32 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:50:49 rtoym: only on SBCL 16:51:00 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:51:07 What about other LIsps? 16:51:11 Er, Lisps. 16:51:15 and they need to be freed manually 16:52:22 other CLs have native static arrays 16:52:35 pabst [~anonymous@70-36-139-45.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:56 Ah, ok. cmucl has static vectors that GC will free. Haven't really used them. 16:54:04 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.171] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 16:54:43 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-132-104.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:55:11 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.171] has joined #lisp 16:55:13 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 16:55:24 Ah, but I see you know that. 16:58:14 -!- thmzlt [~thomaz@24-207-254-235.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:59:13 -!- catnap [~tommi@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ffd0c300-37.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:00:23 -!- Sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:18 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-142-20.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:25 alama [~alama@a79-169-87-41.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 17:05:42 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:06:07 stassats: what do you mean by "fix warnings, unless they're stylish"? 17:06:44 fixing warnings which are not style-warnings 17:07:00 although fixing style-warnings wouldn't hurt either 17:07:33 i'm using warn to do debug output 17:07:46 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:46 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:07:46 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 17:07:50 alama: Won't interact well with asdf. 17:08:04 that's what i meant; i do fix warnings emitted by the compiler 17:08:11 Xach: how so? 17:09:55 alama: a warning during compilation, anyway, is an indication for asdf (on sbcl) that the file shouldn't be loaded 17:10:05 a runtime warning is not so bad 17:10:10 Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:16 (or bad at all) 17:10:44 Xach: ah, i see; well, i think this discussion is confusing warnings emitted by the compiler and my use of WARN as a runtime debug output generator 17:11:00 silenius [~silenus@p4FC22062.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:10 sbahra_ [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:02 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.11.10.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:18:27 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:19:10 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:19:30 gotcha 17:21:50 iley [6d3e8fb7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.62.143.183] has joined #lisp 17:23:35 cvh [~user@188-22-100-22.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:24:55 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:00 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:10 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:34:17 -!- csamuelson [~csamuelso@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:35:51 pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 17:36:02 hmm, i'm working with some code that occasionally blows the stack, but it's often difficult to discover that in slime because *inferior-lisp* is sitting in the low-level debugger, waiting for me to do something 17:36:31 is there some way to configure slime so that when the low-level debugger is raised, i get notified of that somehow? 17:36:47 (i'm talking about sbcl, btw) 17:36:58 no 17:37:41 -!- claint [~user@88.247.119.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:38:18 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-87.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:39:27 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.70.46.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: gone] 17:39:28 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-179.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:57 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-142-20.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:41:58 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 17:43:43 stassats: like, in principle that's impossible? 17:43:54 or just that there's no way to do that atm? 17:44:00 nothing is impossible in principle 17:44:16 making 2+2=5 true is impossible, in principle :-p 17:44:36 adjust your principles 17:44:54 switch from Peano to something else 17:44:57 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.235.213] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:23 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:50 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.93.103] has joined #lisp 17:48:23 ZFC 17:48:43 let's not diverge too much 17:48:53 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:49:35 (defparameter '|2+2| 5) 17:49:59 Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:34 lol 17:50:48 argh, my lisp keeps dying during garbage collection 17:51:17 produce less garbage? 17:51:47 alama: as in: it crashes, or does it become slow? 17:52:17 madnificent: i'm using sbcl; the process enters the low-level debugger, at which point (i think) i'm screwed 17:52:42 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:02 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:09 alama: how much garbage do you produce? 17:53:16 stassats: a ton, apparently 17:53:33 i'm parsing large-ish xml using cxml 17:53:33 alama: when that's the case, smart lispers like stassats come to life :) 17:53:33 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:34 alternatively, do you produce lots of live data? 17:53:42 sbcl needs twice the memory, because it has a semi-space collector 17:53:48 or something like a semi-space 17:54:09 my guess is that i'm keeping around too many copies of the dom for this xml 17:54:39 Krystof: what do you mean? 17:55:02 producing lots of garbage is fine. Allocating lots of memory and retaining pointers to it is usually the problem 17:56:09 for this problem, i read in some xml and modify the text from which the xml comes; then i re-read the xml, check whether it satisfies my condition, and possible regenerate and reload the xml again, etc. 17:56:14 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:29 MoALTz [~no@92.11.10.82] has joined #lisp 17:56:30 i get crashes (i.e., get thrown into the low-level debugger) only for xml files that require lots of passes 17:56:43 and do you keep references to all of these copies of the xml document? 17:56:45 which i suppose is a sign that i'm keeping around too much garbage 17:56:55 Krystof: let me check 17:56:59 i fear i am 17:57:25 the garbage collector doesn't know it's garbage until you can't reach it from any "live" lisp object. Until you break the links, the GC can't intervene 17:57:52 if the old versions are reachable by your program, then it's not garbage, it's live data -- even if you don't want it any more 17:58:03 i suppose one thing i can do is setf the slot of the object to NIL, instead of having it hold a parsed xml file 17:58:13 yes 17:58:16 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@83.240.225.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:58:36 or remove the reference to the object whose slot is the parsed xml document 17:58:53 right 17:59:02 any way of making it so that your program can't find the parsed xml document any more 17:59:20 yeah 17:59:20 M-sprite [~M-sprite@60.183.247.16] has joined #lisp 17:59:34 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:59:43 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:46 Virunga [~GV_@151.61.248.154] has joined #lisp 18:00:53 -!- hun [~user@91-65-90-50-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:53 in a generational GC, the less time your data is alive, the better 18:01:31 -!- cvh [~user@188-22-100-22.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:45 Hi, where i can paste the code to show you for help? 18:01:51 die, data, die! 18:01:52 lisppaste: url? 18:01:53 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 18:01:57 hun [~user@91-65-90-50-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:02:17 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 18:03:01 -!- Liera [~Liera@123.20.62.22] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:03:17 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@host-90-238-111-154.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:03:45 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-179.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:04:05 hello lispers! 18:05:06 Lisp tells me this isn't a valid form b/c `~' isn't a package: 18:05:09 (quote ~:W-and-w-list) 18:06:03 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-230-164-105.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:06:31 Am i required to wrap the above in pipes, e.g. |~:W-and-w-list|? 18:07:17 hmm, i'm having trouble determining whether my data is live -- are there some tools that can help me with that? 18:07:44 mon_key: you could use \: 18:07:58 mon_key: but if you want exact case, pipes are more concise 18:09:00 -!- Virunga [~GV_@151.61.248.154] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 18:09:17 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@beting-proceeds.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:09:40 Xach: case isn't important. I'm using these at head of alist pairs for format string lookup. 18:10:02 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:10:08 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.208.177] has joined #lisp 18:10:32 EarlGray [~dmytrish@beting-proceeds.volia.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:55 Xach: the only elements in table that have the : are ~:W variants... 18:12:05 did you consider using hash-tables with string keys? 18:12:16 jikanter [~Adium@12.188.154.50] has joined #lisp 18:12:19 stassats: was just pondering that :) 18:13:50 alama pasted "question about live data" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119608 18:13:56 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:05 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:14:07 -!- iley [6d3e8fb7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.62.143.183] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:14:20 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.208.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:26 Krystof, stassats: can you check out the question that i put in that last paste? 18:14:33 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.208.177] has joined #lisp 18:16:34 no 18:16:46 -!- ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:16:55 the data is alive as long as you can reach it 18:17:02 oh, yes, that's a fair point 18:17:14 stassats: Not sure if of the utility of hashes though. Only have tweny key/val pairs. 18:17:14 if you do (alive *thing*) 18:17:24 Maybe just (assoc :test 'string=) is fine. 18:17:33 then even after the until (pred thing) you can still reach your data through *thing* 18:17:36 -!- jikanter [~Adium@12.188.154.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:50 mon_key: do you know the difference between a hash-table and a list? 18:18:21 Other than that they are different data-structures? 18:18:33 how they differ 18:18:36 jikanter [~Adium@12.188.154.50] has joined #lisp 18:18:48 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:19:41 Is a twenty element hash keyed on strings any better than an alist? 18:19:46 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:20:19 Krystof: hmm, ok, thanks 18:20:30 depends on many factors, but i suspect it to be better 18:20:37 mon_key, test it and see 18:25:42 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:27:17 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 18:27:32 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:27:35 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 18:27:49 I think maybe the right thing is not to change the keys to strings but just escape the four occurences of keys with ~:W :) 18:28:37 package is a hash-table with string keys 18:28:38 mon_key: seems like an abuse of symbols to me. 18:29:21 why do you need to put those format strings somewhere? 18:29:24 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:30:21 mon_key pasted "format delimited english list templat" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119609 18:31:13 stassats: because they aren't worth puzzling out repeatedly... 18:31:20 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 18:32:05 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:20 stolen/adapted from PCL chap 18 pg 229 18:32:32 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:33:05 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:34:12 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:36:08 that's... rather unprogrammatical 18:36:22 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 18:38:30 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe5ddc00-120.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 18:38:33 stassats: Maybe but its certainly no less concise than rolling them out of a function and mucking with escaping. 18:39:05 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:18 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:40:50 RaceCondition [~erik@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe5ddc00-120.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:41:20 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:11 (defun format-englishy-list (directive conjunction &key list) (concatenate 'string "~" (if list "@" "") "{~#[~;" directive "~;" directive " " conjunction " " directive "~:;~@{" directive"~#[~;, "conjunction " ~:;, ~]~}~]~}")) 18:44:28 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 18:45:01 (format t (format-englishy-list "~,2f" "et") '(1.5 2.5 3.5)) => 1.50, 2.50, et 3.50 18:45:29 how would you do this with your method? 18:46:24 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 18:46:40 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:47:41 stassats: I can't :( How would you suggest looking up prespecified control strings? 18:48:30 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:50:19 and me being a fan of format, i'd do it (format nil "~~~2@*~@[@~]{~~#[~~;~@*~a~~;~@*~a ~1@*~a ~@*~a~~:;~~@{~@*~a~~#[~~;, ~1@*~a ~~:;, ~~]~~}~~]~~}" directive conjunction list) 18:50:53 The latter was how I would imagine it should be done :) 18:51:44 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:51:52 and being a true fan of format, i'd define ~// for doing this 18:52:14 stassats: you can define new format directives? 18:52:48 madnificent: see last months PRO mailing list for discussion 18:53:10 PRO mailing list, which one is that? 18:53:24 Virunga [~GV_@151.61.248.154] has joined #lisp 18:53:51 Hi, How i can compose a lambda function with arguments the arguments of a functionc A 18:53:51 plus one, and as body the body of a function B? The arguments of A and body of B 18:53:51 are lists. 18:54:00 thank you 18:54:03 lurker-x [~androirc@c-75-72-99-111.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:48 madnificent: an elite mailing list for the washed 18:54:56 madnificent: and sure you can 18:54:59 clhs ~/ 18:54:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_ced.htm 18:55:17 stassats: Its well and good to build the control-string with a function but still requires input/memory of the call sequence etc. with the parameter I can inspect the variable with slime. 18:55:18 Virunga: is that a homework? 18:55:35 is a little part of it 18:55:52 e.g. (slime-inspect "*format-delimited-english-list-templates*") 18:55:55 stassats: now I still don't know where to find it -_- 18:56:17 madnificent: that means you're not elite enough 18:56:30 stassats: and I will never be :) 18:56:38 but there's not much helpful on that ML 18:56:39 Virunga: were that sentences? 18:57:35 madnificent, sorry? 18:57:36 madnificent: ITVirungaM (lambda (arguments body) ...) => (lambda (arguments) body) 18:57:39 stassats: also, that ~/name/ is briliant :D glad to know it 18:58:07 stassats: is it possible? 18:58:16 yes 18:58:18 clhs compile 18:58:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp.htm 18:58:19 stassats: ah, thanks for the translation 18:58:23 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:58:24 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 18:58:25 Virunga: see compile 18:58:45 clhs coerce 18:58:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_coerce.htm 18:58:53 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:00 or coerce 18:59:18 thank you alot 18:59:29 bye 18:59:38 madnificent: http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/pro/2011-January/000350.html 18:59:42 -!- Virunga [~GV_@151.61.248.154] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 19:01:14 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:26 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 19:02:16 *alama* waits for the stack to blow 19:02:34 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 19:02:59 did you consider not blowing it? 19:04:43 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:10:59 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 19:11:04 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 19:11:33 stassats: i'm having trouble figuring out what is causing so much garbage in my program, so i'm going to dig in to the stacktrace of the ldb to see whether it can be of use 19:12:21 are you talking of a stack overflow or heap exhaustion? 19:12:23 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 19:12:35 heap exhaustion 19:12:46 do you know that you can increase the size of the heap? 19:12:55 do you have a test case? 19:13:12 also the size of your working set should be half of the size of the heap 19:13:24 tcr1: yeah, i have tried that 19:13:24 at max 19:13:43 oudeis [~oudeis@249.sub-75-210-175.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:30 tcr1: at max? 19:14:32 *Xach* used to exhaust his heap, but spent $50 on 6GB of memory and doesn't exhaust it any more 19:15:10 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:15:28 francogrex [~user@109.130.27.31] has joined #lisp 19:15:48 *stassats* just added more swap, for $0 19:16:01 Xach: 2->8 ? 19:16:58 fe[nl]ix: yes 19:17:07 i increased the default heap size on 32-bit, so now it doesn't exhaust heap, but makes everything dog-slow 19:17:14 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756d25.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:24 heap exhausts YOU! 19:18:45 why are you exhausting the heap? how does that happend? you allocate so much stuff the GC can not keep up? is there some particular CL style that make this more likely to happend? 19:19:16 allocating-too-much style 19:19:18 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 19:19:30 (obviously besides the equivalent of fork bombs or other deliberate resource starvation hacks) 19:19:31 and keeping-references-too-long style 19:20:10 hypno: it does seem like i'm keeping far too much around, but i can't quite see what it is 19:20:29 i have a guess, but i'm not sure how to test it 19:20:51 alama: does it exhibit the same behaviour in various lisps? 19:20:57 binary___ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 19:21:11 i wonder whether cxml or xpath are keeping references around to old stuff packed up inside closures 19:21:23 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:21:43 hypno: i haven't tested other lisps yet; i'm just using sbcl 19:22:38 alama: check out your hash-tables first. while it's not exactly a common error, if you eg. use strings as keys and accidentally create EQL tables, you can make them grow pretty fast 19:23:12 alama: sb-sprof also has :mode :alloc which allows you too see where allocation is happening, which may help 19:23:20 nikodemus: cool, thanks 19:23:41 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24:00 depends on what the issue is, though -- if you're accidentally retaining stuff that is legitimately allocated elsewhere, then sb-sprof is unlikely to help 19:24:42 -!- hugod_ [~hugod@76.66.181.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:54 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 19:25:14 -!- pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:26:18 hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440254.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:27:15 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:27:16 -!- binary___ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:27:31 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 19:27:57 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.27.31] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:01 nikodemus: Hmm, that's the first time I heard of eql tables, how does that work? 19:28:08 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:28:08 -!- TDT` is now known as TDT 19:28:08 alama: By any chance are you leaving a cxml source unclosed? e.g. cxml:make-source 19:28:14 clhs: make-hash-table 19:28:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_has.htm 19:28:21 TDT: read there :) 19:28:34 mon_key: say more? 19:28:56 TDT: eql is the default 19:29:30 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:30:28 I got caught inside an infinite loop last week caused funny stuff to happen. 19:30:49 oh I see so you're talking about just a different test, I thought that it was something specific to string keys that would use more memory or something as a hash table, rather than just the way the test is done. 19:30:49 (klacks:with-open-source (s (cxml:make-source *some-file*)) (loop {... never finishing ...})) 19:31:09 Totally misread what you were saying nikodemus, sorry about that :) 19:31:30 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:31:53 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 19:32:03 mon_key: i am using cxml:parse-file and cxml-dom:make-dom-builder 19:32:15 mon_key: i don't close anything 19:32:45 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.130.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:32:57 -!- The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:04 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-145-29.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:17 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.203.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:28 mon_key: i am doing (setf xml thing (cxml:parse-file (cxml-dom:make-dom-builder))) 19:34:21 cmm [~cmm@109.67.203.146] has joined #lisp 19:34:24 alama: Not being remotely adept with cxml I've not a clue when/how its objects are opened/closed/deallocated etc. but I do know that I can cause cxml to do racy/heap consuming things when tinkering incorrectly :) 19:34:39 The_Fellow [~spider1@62.219.129.123] has joined #lisp 19:34:57 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:34:58 konr [~user@le22-16.grad.fee.unicamp.br] has joined #lisp 19:35:01 mon_key: well, i'm basically just reading in a whole xml file; i'm not doing anything element-by-element, or whatever, like your example above 19:35:46 maybe you should? Doesn't parsing the DOM tree by definition require an in memory representation? 19:35:58 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 19:36:01 does that exhaust the heap in itself? 19:36:04 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@249.sub-75-210-175.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:37:56 nikodemus: yes, that seems to often be the root of the problem: when i look at a backrace in the ldb, often the problem goes back to refreshing the xml of some object 19:38:36 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:38:48 mon_key: yes, dom is huge and massive 19:39:08 alama: so you get heap exhaustion during PARSE-FILE? 19:39:22 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.178.152] has joined #lisp 19:39:40 AndroUser [~androirc@cpe-69-203-131-209.si.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:52 can you just increase heap size? if you're on x86-64 try something like --dynamic-space-size 8000 19:40:32 ...though if the file is big, you probably do want to process it element-by-element as opposed to a single parse 19:40:54 actually, i'm using xpath on the xml 19:41:05 in a way, i don't care about loading the whole xml 19:41:14 but i haven't figured out a way to do my xpath stuff without doing that 19:41:19 ok, so xpath action is exhausting the heap? 19:41:37 yeah 19:41:41 valvola [~val@host247-253-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:41:45 how big is the document? 19:42:24 alama: what about using klacks:find-element/klacks:find-event 19:43:14 nikodemus: 4.6 mb, in one problematic case 19:43:19 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 19:43:31 -!- valvola [~val@host247-253-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:44:42 oudeis [~oudeis@205.sub-75-208-161.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:48 that doesn't *sound* too big, but i can't claim any experience with processing stuff even close to that big with cxml 19:44:50 mon_key: looking 19:44:57 alama: using klacks I'm able to parse quite large xml docs 30~50 mb 19:45:01 nikodemus: yeah,that's what i think to 19:45:03 too 19:45:15 mon_key: cool, are you using any xpath? 19:45:39 (i'm using plexippus xpath, http://common-lisp.net/project/plexippus-xpath/) 19:45:41 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:44 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 19:46:22 alama: No. Just extracting. 19:46:29 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46:40 mon_key: hmm, that might work for me; my xpath is quite simple 19:46:51 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 19:46:54 alama: is this a one-time thing, or do you need to process those things regularly? 19:47:23 if a one time thing, the easiest thing would probably be to just crank heap size up 19:47:53 i've got a library of about 1000 "articles" in xml; i can process, with my (surely broken, massively inefficient) code about 98% of them; there are a few holdouts, though, and they tend to be large xml documents 19:48:11 nikodemus: yeah, that's what i'm exploring atm, in fact 19:48:21 --dynamic-space-size 16000 19:48:24 binary___ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 19:48:52 alama: take a look at drewc's code examples here: 19:48:53 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/40cd6d3ed01f3f80/50ddf7aec9763a2b?lnk=gst&q=html+parse#50ddf7aec9763a2b 19:49:44 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:50:13 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@205.sub-75-208-161.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:50:48 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:51:12 the articles in this troubled 2% are such that they require a lot of preprocessing before i can eventually do what i want with them; it seems that during this preprocessig, i'm somehow storing lots of (slightly different, as they change a bit during each preprocessing step) versions of these xml documents, as dom 19:51:23 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:54:33 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 19:54:35 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: I'll see you on the dark side of the moon] 19:55:15 mon_key: thanks 19:56:13 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:56:23 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 19:58:14 nikodemus: oh, i misunderstood your question. this is somewhere between a one-time thing and something that needs to be done frequently. the problem is to generate data that other programs will use; in my case, if i can handle the troublesome 2%, that's fine, but not scalable, since i'll need to keep track of this problematic 2% and, when the time comes to generate new data, i'll need to handle them separately, again 19:58:30 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-118-188-155.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:51 that's why i'm interested in figuring out a solution that works for 100% of the cases, and it seems that the royal road is to figure out where i'm generating such massive amounts of data 19:59:02 -!- binary___ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:59:02 i mean, massive amounts of uncollectable garbage 19:59:11 right -- so if cranking up the heap space makes things dog slow, looking into other alternatives is probably worth it 19:59:22 yeah 19:59:26 -!- enderoute [~clarkeaa@adsl-99-70-116-211.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!] 19:59:31 rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 19:59:37 in fact, i can confirm that cranking up the heap size did the trick, at least in one problematic case 19:59:56 (thankfully, i have access to a compute server with a fair amount of ram) 20:00:08 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-145-29.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:00:11 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-118-188-155.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:00:28 ramus [~ramus@99.118.188.155] has joined #lisp 20:00:34 -!- pabst [~anonymous@70-36-139-45.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:02:15 alama: this is the other c.l.l link that I've found most useful wrt cxml 20:02:16 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/ae64a435c3f4d37f/0dfdbaea2806cc81?lnk=gst&q=SAX#0dfdbaea2806cc81 20:03:14 mon_key: cool, thanks 20:04:58 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:08 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-118-167.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 20:05:42 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 20:07:15 pabst [~anonymous@70-36-139-45.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:25 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 20:08:23 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:26 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:11:34 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 20:12:06 -!- pabst [~anonymous@70-36-139-45.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:12:06 -!- AndroUser [~androirc@cpe-69-203-131-209.si.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:12:45 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:15:03 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 20:16:05 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:16:08 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:16:53 binary___ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 20:18:36 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:18:53 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:19:41 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:17 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:48 -!- jikanter [~Adium@12.188.154.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:22:01 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 20:23:42 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-62.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 20:24:20 nikodemus: to answer your earlier question: yes, the heap is exhausted during the call to cxml:parse-file 20:24:28 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-62.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:25:14 -!- binary___ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25:57 jikanter [~Adium@12.188.154.50] has joined #lisp 20:27:24 nikodemus: in a fresh lisp, i can call cxml:parse-file on the troublesome xml file without a problem, which suggests to me that i'm (mistakenly, unnecessarily) keeping around lot of (nearly identical) versions of the xml file, as dom, so many that i exhaust the heap 20:29:15 alama: a recursive call, perhaps? 20:29:47 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:29:47 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 20:29:47 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:30:11 alama: sounds possible 20:30:50 alama pasted "troublesome ldb backtrace" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119615 20:31:00 madnificent: could be so -- chekc out the paste 20:31:49 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 20:34:08 -!- konr [~user@le22-16.grad.fee.unicamp.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:18 alama: doesn't look particularly suspicious to me 20:34:32 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 20:34:44 let me have a look at cxml source 20:34:53 nikodemus: yeah, i think the call stack is fine; it's running out of space because because of all the garbage around, which we don't see in that backtrace 20:35:01 huangho [~vitor@201-35-181-185.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:35:48 alama: what if you do (loop repeat 100 do (parse-file ...)) in a fresh sbcl? 20:37:10 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:37:43 nikodemus: trying it now 20:39:13 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:57 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 20:40:17 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:40:56 jdz [~jdz@host37-111-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:41:22 -!- colbseton [~colbseton@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-23-43.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 20:42:13 nikodemus: aha, this drops me to the ldb 20:42:29 heap exhausted 20:42:49 (i have to take off now for a movie, i'll be back later -- thanks so much for all the help; this is an interesting new development) 20:42:57 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:43:37 alama: ok, so if that in a loop exhausts your heap, i suspect cxml guys may want to hear about it 20:44:04 can you share your troublesome xmls? 20:46:33 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-62.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:47:00 stassats: sure: http://centria.di.fct.unl.pt/~alama/bilinear.xml 20:47:03 so I have a little cpp code that i turned into a lib to do some audio recording with coreaudio, i also have lispworks bindings for it so I can record audio from my lisp app, are there any guides as so how I could asdf this? 20:47:15 alama: and exact invocation of cxml, please 20:47:54 stassats: well, i followed nikodemus's suggestion: (loop repeat 100 do (cxml:parse-file "bilinear.xml" (cxml-dom:make-dom-building))) 20:48:11 taking off now -- thanks again, ttyl 20:48:16 -!- jdz [~jdz@host37-111-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:48:51 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 20:49:24 *stassats* goes to unleash his superpowers on this problem 20:51:54 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:53:17 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 20:57:34 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:59:08 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:59:24 oh great, cxml doesn't like ~ in paths 20:59:29 ale` [~user@109.255.54.142] has joined #lisp 21:00:24 <_8david`> really? I think I'm using ~ all the time. 21:00:33 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:00:39 *_3b* noticed that too 21:00:57 (CXML::PATHNAME-TO-URI #P"~/bilinear.xml") => The value :HOME is not of type SEQUENCE. 21:01:15 *_3b* finds resetting cxml:*dtd-cache* to a new hash table lets GC clear the garbage 21:01:27 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:35 <_8david`> => # 21:01:57 ouf 21:02:12 <_8david`> that's on a real lisp though :-) 21:03:04 i spent all the nickels on a real computer 21:03:54 _3b: it's empty in this test-case 21:04:19 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:04:29 <_3b> stassats: yeah, same here... might have just happened to step on some stack garbage, dunno 21:04:51 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 21:05:12 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:05:44 <_3b> (gc :full t) is clearing it more reliably now, guess first test was just bad luck 21:07:29 gumbo [~gumbo@52.pool85-49-218.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 21:08:47 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:08:58 *_3b* blames conservative stack GC stuff, wonders again if sbcl is looking at stuff on stack from no-longer-active frames it could/should have cleared 21:09:20 minion: memo for nyef: what's the point of clx's def-clx-class? Why not defclass? Is there any reason why I should use def-clx-class to add xembed support to clx instead of clos facilities (for, e.g., the implementation of an embedder class). 21:09:20 Remembered. I'll tell nyef when he/she/it next speaks. 21:10:31 <_8david`> I see no memory leak when parsing to a NIL handler. 21:11:16 xan_ [~xan@62.57.174.62.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:22 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 21:11:26 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 21:12:17 pabst [~anonymous@70-36-139-35.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:04 <_8david`> and my real 32bit lisp cannot parse that document into DOM even once before running oom 21:13:16 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:13:45 it takes about 200M here (32 sbcl) 21:14:40 <_3b> ~400 here on 64 sbcl, which usually survives a few :full GCs (after clearing * ** *** and slime presentations) 21:14:53 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC22062.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:31 gc doesn't help here at all 21:17:04 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 21:17:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@62.57.174.62.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:18:12 pnq [~nick@ACA2A21C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:26 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.222] has joined #lisp 21:19:19 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:50 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:21:15 doh, slime really doesn't like #+(or)(in-package :fooo) 21:22:28 *stassats* is perplexed why there should be different packages at all 21:22:36 <_3b> doesn't seem to object here 21:23:06 well, i object, because it wrongly determines the package 21:23:51 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 21:23:57 guess what fun i had when instead of copying the link i accidentally told firefox to open that monster ... 21:24:17 *_3b* did that but managed to stop it in time 21:24:22 did it crash into LDB? 21:24:50 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:24:52 firefox :) no... 21:25:20 doh, i can't even write. "firefox? no... :)" was how it was supposed to go 21:25:56 binary___ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 21:26:12 _3b: GC doesn't look at no-longer active frames 21:26:16 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:26:21 that would be... bad 21:26:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:26:53 <_3b> nikodemus: right, i assumed it isn't /supposed/ to, but completely beyond me to verify that :) 21:27:22 <_3b> does it clear stack before entering or leaving a frame? 21:27:29 but you have a point re. conservativism: huge tree structures are nasty when you have any sort of conservativism going on 21:27:47 <_3b> and if not, does it ever leave gaps that might have old data in them which the GC would see? 21:27:58 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 21:28:29 _3b: it doesn't clear, and yes there may be gaps 21:28:56 *stassats* fires up Clozure 21:29:19 let's see how its precise GC fairs 21:29:27 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:30:48 clozure cl has no problems with this thing 21:30:54 -!- binary___ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:32:01 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:52 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 21:35:06 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:36:36 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:36:56 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 21:38:47 -!- gumbo [~gumbo@52.pool85-49-218.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 21:39:17 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 21:39:23 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 21:40:26 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-35-181-185.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:41:03 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 21:42:13 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-166-1.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:32 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.178.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:48 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:43:29 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 21:43:50 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-167-224.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:43:57 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:44:29 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:45:00 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 21:45:24 binary___ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 21:46:29 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:46:36 chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.163.63.49] has joined #lisp 21:48:02 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:30 is there a portable way to determine if a stream is connected to an ANSI terminal and supports colours? 21:48:52 ask the user 21:49:09 chaitanya: no 21:49:54 chaitanya: are we talking serial line and dumb terminal with no previously set-up environment variable informing of terminal type? 21:51:09 p_l|backup: nope, just trying to figure out if *terminal-io* is connected to an ANSI terminal on a modern *nix environment 21:53:30 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:54:03 chaitanya: to do so properly, you need to get the file descriptors of *terminal-io* then call (C function) isatty(fd) on them. 21:54:22 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 21:55:15 yeah, i am hoping someone's already written a portable wrapper which I can use 21:55:52 otherwise I might need to write one 21:56:40 -!- binary___ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:56:46 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 21:56:47 chaitanya: on SBCL and CCL, there are ones. But afaik no portable wrapper exists that deals with everything, unless you're using curses 21:57:56 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 21:58:18 -!- jikanter [~Adium@12.188.154.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:58:30 ok. I was just going through the SBCL documentation 21:58:38 how do I get the fd for *terminal-io* 21:58:52 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 21:58:58 (sb-posix:file-descriptor *terminal-io*) throws an error 21:59:41 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 22:00:08 because it doesn't work on non-file streams? 22:00:50 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:01:52 chaitanya pasted "fd of *terminal-io*" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119616 22:02:14 what i said 22:02:31 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:03:28 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 22:05:41 stassats: fair point about *terminal-io*, but it gives the same error for *standard-input*, *standard-output* 22:05:58 *stassats* repeats 22:06:48 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:07:03 binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 22:07:47 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 22:07:53 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has left #lisp 22:08:57 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.222] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 22:09:07 stassats annotated #119616 "stream-fd" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119616#1 22:09:20 huangho [~vitor@201-35-144-93.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 22:09:41 well, (sb-sys:fd-stream-fd sb-sys:*stdout*) does return 1 though 22:09:53 try my paste 22:10:01 binary___ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 22:10:07 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:10:15 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:11:20 stassats: works great, thanks! 22:11:29 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-210-34.ip56.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:12:45 it should've been etypecase, i wonder where that e went 22:13:12 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 22:13:38 -!- binary_c_ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:14:24 -!- hun [~user@91-65-90-50-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:51 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 22:15:48 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 22:18:48 -!- binary___ [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:21:30 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:23:00 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.93.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:15 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:26 lemoinem [~swoog@137-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:49 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:59 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-35-144-93.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:32:26 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1B1D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:11 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-62.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:34:38 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 22:34:50 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has left #lisp 22:35:23 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:35:37 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-250-229.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:36 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 22:40:21 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:41:13 gio123 [c1899c9c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.137.156.156] has joined #lisp 22:41:21 J. Jaffar, S. Michaylov, P.J. Stuckey, and R.H.C. Yap. The CLP(R) language and system. ACM Transactions on Programming Languages and Systems, 14(3):339 395, 1992.? 22:41:28 does one has this paper: J. Jaffar, S. Michaylov, P.J. Stuckey, and R.H.C. Yap. The CLP(R) language and system. ACM Transactions on Programming Languages and Systems, 14(3):339 395, 1992.? 22:49:28 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:28 benny [~benny@i577A118A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:50:18 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-62.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:19 oudeis [~oudeis@rrcs-24-43-0-141.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:03 What was the name of a recent simple CL editor/IDE? A four-letter word if my memory serves me right? 22:57:26 does one has this paper: J. Jaffar, S. Michaylov, P.J. Stuckey, and R.H.C. Yap. The CLP(R) language and system. ACM Transactions on Programming Languages and Systems, 14(3):339 395, 1992.? 22:57:29 ? 22:57:44 slme? 22:57:51 gio123: please, stop repeating 22:57:57 ok 22:58:04 and this is not a library 22:58:12 i know 22:58:13 :) 22:58:19 no one is at university 22:58:20 :D? 22:58:41 -!- chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.163.63.49] has left #lisp 22:59:09 AndroUser2 [~androirc@32.171.255.14] has joined #lisp 23:00:53 -!- lurker-x [~androirc@c-75-72-99-111.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:01:38 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:02:35 is there anybody at university atm? 23:02:53 stassats: able 23:03:08 stassats: that was the one. 23:03:54 Or perhaps some suggestions/experiences for cl programming *on* the N810? 23:07:39 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 23:10:44 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@rrcs-24-43-0-141.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:11:25 n810 doesn't have a proper lisp 23:11:26 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:11:32 CL 23:11:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:11:50 A friend says he's got clisp. 23:12:23 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:12:24 clisp isn't proper in my book of propers 23:12:56 i managed to compile clisp for n810 too, but i never used it, i guess it would be too slow for anything serious 23:13:15 it's too slow for anything serious on my desktop, for that matter 23:13:19 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-87-41.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 23:14:42 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 23:15:00 n900 has a faster CPU and Clozure CL runs on it 23:15:27 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:15:37 stassats: Doesn't ccl run on the 810 as well? 23:15:41 no 23:17:24 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:03 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:34 mon_key annotated #119609 "now generate programmatically" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119609#1 23:24:54 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:25:04 mon_key: fwiw, that construction isn't from PCL, it's from CLHS 23:25:06 clhs ~[ 23:25:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cgb.htm 23:25:35 at the end 23:27:09 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:22 and i hope you don't plan to use what you just pasted 23:28:21 mon_key annotated #119609 "add docstring fix bad ~@W directives in variable" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119609#2 23:30:48 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:31:07 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:42 stassats: the PCL construction is not the same as the CLHS 23:34:46 it isn't? 23:35:34 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:22 can someone help me out, i think im hitting a iolib bug in lispworks 23:36:56 stassats: No, the PCL one is wrapped in "~{" "~}" 23:37:02 PuffTheMagic: what are you doing? 23:37:07 PuffTheMagic: fe[nl]ix would probably be the most qualified person to help, but ask (: 23:37:29 I'm surprised that iolib even loads in LW at all 23:37:31 :D 23:37:34 mon_key: and that makes it entirely different? 23:37:36 well im just trying to use one of the example servers as a base 23:37:40 ex8 23:37:48 i can connect to the server from telnet 23:37:57 but if i send any text it craps out 23:38:46 ... cannot be converted to foreign type "Statically allocated (LISP-ARRAY NIL) 23:40:42 works fine in ccl 23:40:43 paste the backtrace somewhere 23:41:18 stassats: No clue, but strictly speaking they are not the same. However, as you're being a stickler by pointin out the origin as CLTL2 it seems reasonable to point out the differnece :P 23:41:53 it's negligible 23:42:05 fe[nl]ix, http://dpaste.com/410277/ 23:42:15 i, personally, wouldn't attribute at all 23:43:52 alama [~alama@a79-169-87-41.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 23:45:31 stassats: did you see an error in what was pasted? 23:45:59 no, it looks ugly 23:46:25 -!- sbahra_ is now known as sbahra 23:47:09 yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.18] has joined #lisp 23:48:29 Good morning everyone! 23:48:43 slyrus: Now I am :) 23:48:47 stassats: howso? is it the indentation, or do something more general? 23:48:58 the whole thing 23:49:20 fe[nl]ix, anything else I can get you? 23:53:20 PuffTheMagic: I'm afraid that you're on your own here 23:53:33 I don't have access to LW 23:53:48 maybe their mailing list can be of help 23:53:50 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:54:16 fe[nl]ix, LW Personal is free 23:54:47 and it's such a PITA to use it that I'd rather not 23:57:01 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 23:57:15 what would be the easiest way to get a window object given a window id in clx? 23:59:02 fe[nl]ix, what part of %%receive-from calls FLI::SET-DYNAMIC-LISP-ARRAY-POINTER 23:59:29 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:59:43 ale`: Did you look in the source? Surely, there must be code for doing that in there.