00:00:15 I like writing stuff using hunchentoot & jquery for user interactions. 00:00:34 lets you get a nice minimal UI up in very few steps, and you can refine in javacript / using css later 00:00:44 Is there any new documentation for weblocks? 00:00:46 oh kinda like sinatra 00:00:50 keyvan: yes, hunchentoot here, too; weblocks was more than I wanted, and nothing I actually needed 00:00:54 keyvan: pretty much 00:01:11 neat, hunchentoot seems like a nice baseline to make whatever u want 00:01:14 keyvan: hunchentoot is a bit of a mixture of rack (in that it is the basis for some other web frameworks), and sinatra 00:01:19 (with its easy-handlers) 00:01:21 without being like HERES AN ELEPHANT LOL 00:01:25 (rails) 00:01:26 exactly 00:01:31 lol 00:01:31 -!- deego [~user@74.255.63.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:32 and it's a highly awesome web server. 00:01:44 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:02:44 sweet. okay well if nobody wants to help me through screen-share and voice, whats your next best suggestion for learning my environment? 1) read emacs tutorials, 2) read slime docs? 3) ? profit ? 00:03:39 so i even really need slime? i still dont really understand what its for. the name is so cryptic.... superior lisp interaction mode for emacs. i need to learn about emacs modes 00:03:55 okay yeah first stop would need to be emacs tutorials then..... god... and i thought i was so smart for learning VIM early. 00:03:56 keyvan: You can think of slime as an IDE for lisp 00:04:00 keyvan: SLIME is what makes Emacs a good Lisp editor 00:04:06 keyvan: I resisted SLIME+EMACS for a while, but ultimately wound up there anyway 00:04:29 ok so its my inevitable future, better learn it on my own properly anyawy. 00:04:33 keyvan: there was a plugin for Eclipse that wasn't half bad but it hasn't been well-maintained--and certainly not as thorough as SLIME + EMACS 00:04:39 yes, indeed :) 00:04:42 keyvan: What editor do you usually use? 00:05:01 drdo: on linux, gedit. on mac, textmate. and vim 00:05:06 vim is for quick edits. 00:05:12 (me) 00:05:31 keyvan: gedit, really? :P 00:05:48 Well, you can use emacs like you use gedit and learn gradually 00:05:48 drdo: only because theres this package called gedit-gmate which makes it like TextMate 00:06:00 all these nice plugins and color schemes, etc, makes it support rails nicely 00:06:55 drdo: i have no problem learning it. its just i am a sucker for someone teaching me over voice and stuff... and i was hoping someone would do that for me (thats how i teach people ruby and they learn super fast as a result).. but i know its a bit rude to ask 00:07:18 doing it on my own is a test of discipline anyway, so i understand i will benefit more from it 00:07:49 keyvan: There are plenty of videos you can watch 00:08:04 I remember seeing a new series of videos on introduction to emacs 00:08:10 They were pretty decent 00:08:46 http://www.youtube.com/user/rpdillon#p/u/6/VpFK6abGCOg 00:08:48 Here 00:08:49 ok cool ill look for em, thanks. gonna get back to reading 00:08:52 cool thanks :D 00:09:22 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-105-242.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:11:33 tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has joined #lisp 00:14:08 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-169.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:14:46 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:54 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.198.110] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:22:52 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:25:12 -!- qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:25:33 qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 00:26:26 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:39:46 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:10 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:43:10 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:10 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:44:50 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:45:17 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:45:45 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-110.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:56:44 -!- illuminati1113 [~user@pool-71-114-7-169.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:24 illuminati1113 [~user@pool-71-114-7-169.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:15 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:48 -!- Matt_S_G [~Matt@188.52.12.53] has left #lisp 01:02:40 evening folks 01:06:26 good evening 01:09:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-0-140.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:10:39 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:13:19 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:13:50 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755c59.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:02 pkhuong: Do you have a reference for the double-double stuff you tried out? 01:20:25 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:21:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:22:11 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 01:23:32 rtoym: bailey's stuff, i believe. 01:23:49 Most of the implementation can be found in ygingras's fractal zoom. 01:24:20 pkhuong_: Hmm. I used Bailey's stuff. For the most part, there are no branches. 01:24:52 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@90-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:25:02 some sign test, I believe. 01:27:23 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:42 The only branch I remember was for the product, which had to split the number into two pieces. 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slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:30:02 Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 04:30:02 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:31:50 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 04:32:39 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 04:33:11 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.225.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:35:02 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:35:29 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:46 adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:44 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:46:00 pnq [~nick@AC8199E1.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:46:26 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:47:38 __hramrach [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 04:48:39 -!- _hramrach [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:56:14 astoon [~astoon@109.188.227.226] has joined #lisp 04:56:47 OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 04:56:50 -!- OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Client Quit] 05:02:56 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:03:27 -!- trebor_home [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:04:06 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:29 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 05:09:47 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:12:44 sluggo [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:09 Good afternoon everyone! 05:15:37 Good morning, beach. 05:15:45 Hi, beach 05:15:59 (And, it being about fifteen minutes in the morning, I'm going to bed.) 05:16:02 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-64-51.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 05:16:38 -!- kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:29:46 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-afyqkagfuvflnqnr] has left #lisp 05:29:51 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:31:12 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mzeffukzsjwldwfi] has joined #lisp 05:32:06 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:39:26 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:41:03 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-222-151.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:41:53 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 05:41:58 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-137-167.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:32 slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 05:46:28 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:47:38 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:51:06 -!- symbole [~user@ool-182ff693.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:32 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8199E1.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:56:44 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:58:14 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-222-151.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:02 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:04:51 So who is going to work on the semi-standardized extended condition hierarchy for Common Lisp? 06:06:50 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:08:47 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:10:55 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 06:13:53 adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:39 Kevara [~Kedavra@unaffiliated/kevara] has joined #lisp 06:15:43 gko [~gko@111.70.71.44] has joined #lisp 06:16:29 -!- Kevara [~Kedavra@unaffiliated/kevara] has quit [Client Quit] 06:17:36 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:17:54 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:41 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:22:42 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 06:22:42 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:26:16 Yeah, I feared that. 06:33:47 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:34:10 nostoi [~nostoi@191.Red-79-148-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:07 RaceCondition [~erik@148.122.187.66] has joined #lisp 06:35:31 what is the sbcl equivalent of clisp's ext:shell? 06:40:25 adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:26 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:41:27 is there an asd system unifying all this stuff? 06:42:44 RaceCondition: sb-ext:run-program. 06:42:50 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@191.Red-79-148-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:43:00 but yeah, there is, and one day I will remember the name! 06:43:46 external-program. 06:44:28 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 06:44:35 antifuchs: thank you 06:45:17 unless you need something very special like ptys, it's probably better to use a portable wrapper like external-program - get it via quicklisp and forget about this problem (: 06:45:58 antifuchs: cool. too bad LispWorks and clisp diverge regarding pathname-device/host on Windows. 06:48:00 bah (: 06:50:48 antifuchs: was that meant to me? 06:50:59 the quicklisp external-program thing you said 06:51:02 rather directed at gko (: 06:51:07 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 06:51:07 ah, yea, that 06:51:24 k 06:52:29 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 06:53:45 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.93.119] has quit [Quit: ] 06:53:52 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:56:14 huangho [~vitor@201-41-12-46.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 06:56:48 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:56:56 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-137-167.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:58:18 -!- NihilistDandy [~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:19 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:09:34 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 07:09:46 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kcnoanndcswrhvgp] has joined #lisp 07:10:28 mason [~user@ip72-211-205-4.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:34 hey all 07:10:38 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:27 hello mason 07:12:08 so i'm about to release a library 07:12:12 and i was wondering 07:12:22 what kind of licenses lisp projects typically have 07:12:37 It varies a lot. 07:12:48 I mean, in all honesty 07:12:58 I doubt anyone's going to steal my code and make a million dollars 07:13:08 mostly, MIT/BSD, I think 07:13:19 there's an LGPL with a lisp clause attached 07:13:25 (the LLGPL) 07:13:31 (obviously (-;) 07:13:32 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:13:57 and then some people come up with really weird ones (see cl-http for instance) 07:14:04 (that's the least recommended path) (: 07:14:25 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 07:14:32 what's so weird about it? 07:15:37 I recall that it's very much not DFSG-free. 07:15:43 let me look it up 07:16:57 anyway: don't do that. the beaten path is good: MIT or LLGPL let your users use that library (knowing these licenses well enough) without having to worry that what they're doing is not permitted. 07:17:23 okay, good to know 07:18:14 heh. here's a nice one from the cl-http one: "The licensee may not use the CL-HTTP technology for the purposes of illegal or anti-social activities. Anti-social activities include, but are not limited to, attacks on computer systems and acquisition of email addresses for the purposes of transmiting spam email;" 07:19:32 or a clause that compels users to promptly inform the cl-http community of any novel uses of the software. 07:20:14 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@148.122.187.66] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 07:20:23 or one that says you can't use another Server: header. 07:21:44 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:21:58 anyway. yeah. the beaten path is good (-: 07:22:54 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:23:15 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:23:32 anyway. past my bedtime: good night! 07:24:16 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 07:24:32 'night antifuchs 07:24:39 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl11-47-80.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 07:28:06 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:33 RaceCondition [~erik@148.122.187.66] has joined #lisp 07:28:44 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-41-12-46.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:34:38 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:34:50 good morning 07:34:59 good morning/evening 07:35:23 mega1 [~user@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 07:37:10 -!- pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:39:02 daniel [~daniel@p50829E05.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:16 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 07:39:16 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 07:39:16 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:40:32 what does frob mean? 07:41:39 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@148.122.187.66] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 07:42:40 greaver [~joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined 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joined #lisp 09:30:38 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-65-101.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 09:32:30 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 09:33:05 -!- greaver [~joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:34:04 lakatos [~quassel@83.166.210.157] has joined #lisp 09:34:29 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:34:30 Hey Guys 09:34:52 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-120-221.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:35:08 can anyone answer a macro related question? 09:35:19 lakatos: just ask it 09:36:14 lakatos: (and if you need to show some source code use: http://paste.lisp.org/ ) 09:36:33 in (defmacro ulet (var val &body body) `(let ((,var ,val)) ,@body)) 09:36:51 I just want to know what does the &body mean? 09:37:04 when you define the arguments 09:38:23 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-15-149.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 09:39:09 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:39:17 lakatos: more or less the same as &rest 09:39:34 only it can be used by editors to show different highlightning, indentation etc 09:39:58 minion: clhs &rest 09:39:59 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 09:40:00 then what does &rest do :P 09:40:04 Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 09:40:10 clhs &rest 09:40:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_da.htm 09:40:40 lakatos: see the above link 09:41:25 Just means to put all remaining parameters into a list that's available in the function (or macro) with the given name 09:41:44 do you know C? va_arg? 09:42:16 like in Perl 5 my($var, $val, @rest)=@_; 09:42:43 I see 09:42:56 thanks for clearing that up 09:43:29 who is krystof? 09:43:51 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:44:02 Joreji_ [~thomas@90-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:45:28 -!- Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has left #lisp 09:46:05 minion: who is krystof? 09:46:05 king kong 09:46:16 minion: who is king kong? 09:46:16 superman 09:46:22 hello mvilleneuve 09:46:24 minion: who is superman? 09:46:24 Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 20 seconds is too many. 09:46:34 minion: sorry 09:46:34 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``sorry''. 09:47:04 Aww, that's a pitiful answer on the part of minion. 09:47:15 Ok, I'm off then to fool around with macros 09:47:21 -!- lakatos [~quassel@83.166.210.157] has left #lisp 09:47:58 gonzojive: "frob" is kind of a generic verb. 09:51:39 -!- NihilistDandy [~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53:05 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 09:54:53 Liera` [~Liera@113.172.70.84] has joined #lisp 09:55:00 malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has joined #lisp 09:57:30 -!- Liera [~Liera@123.20.49.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:57:58 -!- torbjornm [~tm@158.39.208.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:04:30 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:37 gonzojive: see http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/F/frobnicate.html 10:09:05 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:09:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-0-140.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:12:03 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:12:38 -!- myu2 [~myu2@61.211.224.131] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:47 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 10:15:03 -!- gko [~gko@111.70.71.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:16:18 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 10:17:03 torbjornm [~tm@158.39.208.134] has joined #lisp 10:17:41 Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has joined #lisp 10:17:42 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:15 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:36 myu2 [~myu2@61.211.224.131] has joined #lisp 10:24:58 H4ns [~user@p579F8E5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:35 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 10:29:59 -!- Liera` is now known as Liera 10:31:58 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:32:08 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-207-213.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Client exciting.] 10:36:20 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:06 zmv [~daniel@c953305f.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 10:39:20 does anyone know how to use slime it utf8 mode? 10:39:36 read the manual 10:39:45 search for slime-net-encoding and coding-system 10:39:47 wakeup_: personnaly I use (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) 10:39:59 galdor: thanks 10:40:25 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-115.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:42:18 -!- NihilistDandy [~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42:59 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-195.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:44:51 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[~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:02 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #lisp 11:01:40 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:02:34 hello, can anybody help me with string format please ? http://paste.lisp.org/display/119505 11:07:54 how about not using format for this 11:08:39 any ideas on how to convert (utf-8) string to an octet vector? 11:08:59 minion: tell wakeup_ about babel 11:09:00 wakeup_: direct your attention towards babel: Babel is a charset encoding/decoding library, not unlike GNU libiconv, but completely written in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/babel 11:10:23 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 11:10:39 hmm, documentation? :( 11:10:53 -!- torbjornm [~tm@158.39.208.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:11:35 wakeup_: if you're using sbcl, see SB-EXT:STRING-TO-OCTETS 11:11:57 wakeup: (babel:string-to-octets string :encoding :utf-8) ==> octet-vector 11:12:02 sounds easy, seems unportable tho 11:12:19 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-110.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:11 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A360.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:41 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 11:14:55 would it be a bad idea to just modulo the char-codes? 11:15:08 I guess it is... 11:15:23 -!- k9quaint [~quaint@c-98-207-104-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:16:37 jesus 11:16:45 why does babel need a ffi? 11:17:00 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:17:50 why do you think it does? 11:17:57 I have no idea 11:18:10 I guess it does more than what I want 11:18:11 Why not look at what it does with it? 11:18:17 What do you want? 11:18:35 convert an arbitrary string to a octet vector 11:18:50 Well, you can do that with map and char-code. 11:18:56 :X 11:19:02 I can? 11:19:04 Unless that's not what you want, in which case you need to think more. 11:19:18 what if the char code doesnt fit in an octet? 11:19:18 wakeup: I gave you a form that does what you want 11:19:21 Sure, or you could do it with (defun foo (string) #(1)) 11:19:36 Well, you could throw them out, I guess. 11:19:39 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:19:53 I suggest you sit down and think about what you want to do until you can express it meaningfully. 11:20:07 As opposed to this gibberish that you are incoherently spewing at us. 11:20:14 wakeup_: babel is fine, just use it 11:20:30 Zhivago: fuck you nigger, get a coffe or something. 11:20:38 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 11:20:46 -!- Zhivago has set mode +q wakeup_!*@* 11:20:56 Don't those nigger people get tired of that? 11:21:12 Although they are getting more subtle. 11:21:37 subtle ndeed 11:22:28 why did wakeup_ get so upset? 11:22:59 adeht, is this a clean solution ? http://paste.lisp.org/display/119505#1 11:25:52 zmv: because Zhivago is extremely offensive, probably :P 11:26:11 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:26:25 Ralith: but Zhivago didn't offend anyone :\ 11:26:52 zmv: I'd be offended if he called my sincere request for help and thinking aloud "spewing incoherent gibberish" 11:27:09 kiuma: it's ok.. you could also use substitute.. 11:27:52 zmv: would you not? 11:28:02 RaceCondition [~erik@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe5ddc00-120.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 11:28:12 Ralith: I'd just be a little pissed, but, hey, "fuck you nigger" is too much. 11:28:29 <|nix|``> fight fight fight fight .... Gmorning every one :D 11:28:33 hi 11:28:36 zmv: well, yes, of course. 11:28:40 morning |nix|`` 11:28:47 Ralith: he was given (i) a link to babel (ii) a form doing what he asked.. in return he claimed that (i) babel needs an ffi (ii) "it does more than what I want".. my troll senses were tingling 11:29:13 Well, on reflection maybe he wasn't one of those chimpout people. 11:29:17 adeht: personally, my "doesn't understand what he wants" senses were tingling. 11:29:35 (incf Ralith) 11:29:45 -!- Zhivago has set mode -q wakeup_!*@* 11:30:14 I happy that we solved this peacefully! :) 11:31:11 wakeup_: to fill you in on the info you seem to be missing, "convert string to octet vector" is actually a nontrivial problem, because what you're doing is encoding a string. There are many string encodings. 11:31:33 babel is, iirc, a string encoding library, which resolves handles the issues involved for you. 11:32:02 sry, I was mostly interested about utf-8 11:32:59 I suspect that assuming that the lisp implementation works in UTF-8 is less portable than using babel. 11:33:09 I do get why babel needs a ffi now though ;) 11:33:21 Ralith: it's also irrelevant 11:33:35 I guess using babel is very portable, I was referring to sb-ext:string-to-octets 11:33:47 wakeup: babel does not need FFI 11:33:51 adeht: well, "will return char-code values which somehow correspond to UTF8 encodings" 11:33:52 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.21.224.25] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:36:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:39:12 since my aim is to digest passwords (and salt them first), wouldnt it be OK to convert by char-code, and when char-code is >255 splt it up? E.g "" -> #(255 104) 11:39:54 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-65-101.xnet.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:40:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:41:55 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:55 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:45:04 Well, if you're digesting passwords, then you can convert them to octets however you like. 11:45:39 But you need to realize that char-code has an system dependent result, which would make the results likewise non-portable. 11:46:06 If that's acceptable, then there is no problem -- otherwise you will need to determine some specific mapping and use it. 11:46:16 I see 11:51:20 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:55:30 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 11:56:50 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@90-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:42 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mzeffukzsjwldwfi] has left #lisp 11:59:30 -!- kae [~dsa@ext02.gsp.se] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:04:37 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 12:04:42 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:11:02 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:16:50 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:17:30 Grazl [~Grazl@23.Red-81-36-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:41 wubo [~user@c-68-55-91-8.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:31 Joreji [~thomas@83-030.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:21:32 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:21:36 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 12:25:49 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:26:08 -!- zmv [~daniel@c953305f.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: will test syslinux, bye] 12:26:56 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:31:25 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-vfraqelzsftzpwwo] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:31:42 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-sxplecgqszpufjio] has joined #lisp 12:40:42 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe5ddc00-120.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 12:41:32 keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:18 RaceCondition [~erik@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe5ddc00-120.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 12:45:06 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-110.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:46:12 (push '(*print-length* . 10) swank:*swank-pprint-bindings*) doesn't seem to limit the number of elements printed for return values at the SLIME REPL. What am I doing wrong there? 12:47:50 beach: Happy birthday  hope you're spending it Lisping ;) 12:47:59 doesn't the repl use plain *print-length*? 12:48:18 I dont get why this doesnt worK: (map 'string #'(lambda (c) (char-code c)) "abc") 12:48:55 because numbers aren't characters, and strings can only contain characters 12:48:57 nikodemus: Remember your EVAL-WHEN example file? I wanted to show it to someone, but I couldn't find it online anywhere. 12:49:15 (map 'vector ...) 12:49:35 Raykon [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has joined #lisp 12:49:51 sellout: was it something i showed at the presentation at ita? 12:50:08 nikodemus: Mmmm, maybe  I was definitely at ITA when I saw it. 12:50:43 ita folks probably have a copy, then... the laptop which would have had it is in repairshop right now 12:51:04 nikodemus: but then, in what case would one use 'string? 12:51:06 i wasn't using dropbox then yet... 12:51:12 wakeup_: (map 'vector #'char-code "abc") 12:51:41 ah I think I get it 12:51:57 wakeup_: When the output was a string  (map 'string #'code-char '(37 38 39)) 12:52:25 so should I rather iterate over the string, or get a list with map and iterate ofer it? 12:53:14 nevermind :) 12:53:35 nikodemus: I suppose, but I'd rather not change it globally, but thanks. 12:54:57 sellout: Thanks! Yes, I did some SICL work this morning. Then I have been answering email messages all day, especially from my nephew that I worry about because he is arguing in favor of CL at his new job, but he can't really back it up with solid arguments. I fear a backlash. 12:55:46 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:54 is it possible to set the default value of a key in a defun to unbound ? 12:59:12 mega1 [~user@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 12:59:22 kiuma: no 12:59:53 mmm... 13:00:10 tcr1 [~tcr@gprs57.swisscom-mobile.ch] has joined #lisp 13:00:15 kiuma: function arguments are establishing a binding, and you seem to be asking or an unbound binding, which does not make sense to me. 13:00:20 kiuma: what are you trying to do. 13:02:54 whats the best way to convert a list of numbers <=255 to a byte array? 13:03:07 wakeup_: coerce 13:03:17 H4ns, I'm trying to create a sql update function I like keys because they remember me what the sql update needs, if I use &rest that information disappear, and in a sql update a parameter can be also null, if some key is missing it just doesn't go into the sql update clause 13:04:25 kiuma: use &rest _and_ &key together? 13:05:24 H4ns, no of course, but I've found a solution :) and it was very easy. &key (param1 :unbound) 13:05:35 then I check :) 13:05:38 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:05:46 does it make sense ? 13:06:30 kiuma: you know that you can provide a third argument, a symbol in each keyword argument definition which is set to a true value when the argument has been provided by the caller? 13:06:43 kiuma: i.e. &key (param1 nil param1-provided-p) 13:08:15 H4ns, no I didn't I prefer your solution even is a little more verbose because it's more lispy 13:08:31 or better, I didn't remember 13:10:41 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:10:46 Hmm 330 people in #lisp vs 187 in #lua..are we going mainstream? 13:11:06 kruft [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:29 thanks for your help 13:11:30 kiuma: some other idea is to define a constant to (gensym) in your file, use that as default, and check with (eq) 13:12:01 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-95-146.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:12:14 flip214: But that solution is definitely not idiomatic. The one suggested by H4ns is. 13:12:29 agree 13:12:30 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-95-146.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:12:40 JuniorRoy [~JuniorRoy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 13:13:24 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:26 k9quaint [~quaint@c-98-207-104-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:27 _8david [~user@port-92-195-17-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:14:41 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@gprs57.swisscom-mobile.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:14:56 tcr1 [~tcr@gprs57.swisscom-mobile.ch] has joined #lisp 13:15:27 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:16:36 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:41 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-110.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:16 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17:30 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:35 astoon [~astoon@109.188.230.32] has joined #lisp 13:17:38 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-17-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:18:13 but the same solution can be used in more (or other) cases - if you write small wrapper functions that (more or less) just pass arguments to other functions, the param-provided-p way doesn't work anymore 13:19:17 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@gprs57.swisscom-mobile.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:20:10 flip214: that's why you can combine &rest and &key 13:20:13 that's seems true 13:20:16 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-110.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:20:39 and optional arguments? 13:21:02 flip214: it is bad style to mix &optional and &key 13:21:30 I don't want to mix them. Having a wrapper around, say, read-line ... there's eof-error-p, eof-value, etc. 13:21:53 No, that's a bad case - read-line just takes NIL as default 13:22:12 (ie. accepts NIL, it's not default) 13:24:16 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-222-151.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:28:19 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 13:28:28 -!- Grazl [~Grazl@23.Red-81-36-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:28:36 Grazl_ [~Grazl@23.Red-81-36-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:49 -!- Grazl_ is now known as Grazl 13:30:30 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-sxplecgqszpufjio] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:31:01 H4ns, and what if I do something like (defun foo (&rest keys &key a b c) (do-something-with keys)) ? 13:31:59 dmytrish [~dmytrish@193.239.152.189] has joined #lisp 13:32:07 Will it do the trick ? 13:32:23 xan_ [~xan@108.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:32:57 kiuma: you usually use apply, i.e. (defun foo (&rest keys &key a b c) (declare (ignore a b c)) (apply #'something keys)) 13:34:04 hi H4ns! 13:34:14 why apply instead of directly working on keys ? 13:34:42 Xach: hi! :) 13:35:00 Xach: travel plans to boston are cancelled, btw. 13:35:21 H4ns: For quicklisp, I have been using the release version of hunchentoot (the tarball from weitz.de), but yesterday I tried the svn version to build everything. At least one project failed because of the removal hunchentoot:*approved-return-codes*. Where can I learn more about the context of its removal? 13:35:48 Xach: i think i wrote explanations in commit messages. 13:35:54 Ok, thanks. I'll check that. 13:36:05 Xach: there are several dependent projects that i need to fix, though. which one failed for you? 13:36:15 H4ns: cl-oauth 13:36:30 H4ns: I think more failed, but the sourceforge CVS problems have made it more difficult to test than I would like :( 13:36:36 Xach: (i can't currently recommend using the trunk version of Hunchentoot unless you're prepared to hack) 13:36:50 Xach: thanks, i'm going to look at cl-oauth 13:37:12 s/Xach/Xhack/ 13:37:28 H4ns: ah, ok. 13:37:44 if anyone wants to donate a css file and a set of error pages for hunchentoot, let me know 13:38:08 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Quit] 13:38:19 H4ns, maybe me, what do you need for css ? 13:39:04 kiuma: a small css file and error pages to put into the standard document tree that will be delivered with the next hunchentoot release. 13:39:17 H4ns, what about this ? http://www.wingstech.it/claw/site/index-invalid.html 13:39:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@108.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:39:39 I'm trying to understand why doing (sb-posix:chdir ...) affects (sb-ext:run-program ...) but not (with-open-file ...) 13:39:49 remember that claw uses hunchentoot connector 13:39:56 kiuma: ehm. well, i thought about something more oriented towards design, look nice etc. 13:40:11 RaceCondition: with-open-file uses *default-pathname-defaults* 13:40:11 ok 13:40:42 H4ns: so I always have to keep track of two different states when dealing with files and executing external programs? 13:40:57 RaceCondition: correct. 13:41:16 RaceCondition: common lisp does not have a concept of a "current directory" 13:41:40 it predates it 13:42:33 *default-pathname-defaults* is much more flexible. 13:42:38 RaceCondition: You could write a function that updated both *default-pathname-defaults* and chdir at the same time, if you're doing a lot of communicating between CL and Unix stuff. 13:42:59 sellout: no, I'm just trying to get Land of Lisp examples to work 13:43:00 I wrote a (with-posix-cwd "path" ...) that keeps *d-p-d* and the cwd in sync, but it's SBCL-only... 13:43:12 I'm using SBCL 13:43:20 I'll show you what I used. 13:43:23 H4ns, ok I'll get HT from github 13:43:24 xan_ [~xan@127.57.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:43:34 kiuma: ? 13:43:38 RaceCondition: But, if you're generating files either for or from external-programs, you might use :stream arguments to input and output in run-program. 13:43:58 ops, it's the not official one :) 13:44:50 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-jeqvvvduodokwfdm] has joined #lisp 13:44:58 RaceCondition: http://paste.lisp.org/display/119509 13:45:40 sellout: i.e. "pipe" my data to, say, the graphviz dot executable directly without creating a temporary file? 13:45:53 Xach: thank you 13:46:14 -!- JuniorRoy [~JuniorRoy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:46:35 H4ns: hmm... what about doing something like Rails/Rack does for error pages? (i.e. where it shows the backtrace etc.?) 13:46:42 RaceCondition: you can also normalize the pathnames to the full name by using (truename pathname) and not work with relative names. 13:47:17 p_l|backup: i have implemented a trivial templating mechanism and want to add ways to insert the backtrace and other information from the request there. 13:47:33 great! 13:47:35 p_l|backup: but i don't know rails/rack, so thoughts would be welcome. 13:47:36 Xach: just realised it, yeah 13:49:18 RaceCondition: Yes, you can just write to a stream, and it'll be read as stdin by the external program, and read from a stream mapped to stdout. 13:49:43 sellout: iirc run-program does some ugly things underneath to present a pretty interface. 13:49:49 *Xach* doesn't care! 13:49:54 sellout: I still need to write the output to the right location, so I better learn *d-p-d* 13:50:18 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-188-112.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:50:42 RaceCondition: I know you're doing LoL examples, but for future reference, there are a couple nice graphviz libs for CL out there. 13:52:09 H4ns, where do I get current HT code ? http://bknr.net/trac/browser/trunk/thirdparty/hunchentoot/ is trac 13:52:14 H4ns: Rack is probably one thing I miss in CL still... cause it allows to mix&match whatever module I'd like into HTTP request (including stuff like easily "mounting" several webapps together into one server, or switching servers, etc.) 13:52:49 definitely doable in CL, of course, just not written yet :D 13:52:49 kiuma: svn://bknr.net/svn/ediware 13:53:03 thx 13:53:35 p_l|backup: well, i'm currently only trying to make hunchentoot easier to start and use as a file-serving http server so that i don't have to use apache for that. 13:55:29 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-jeqvvvduodokwfdm] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:55:46 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-qxildhblewiotlog] has joined #lisp 13:55:55 H4ns pasted "find document root" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119510 13:56:30 ^ comments on that? that's the function that i'm planning to use to find the default document root directory in a vanilla hunchentoot install. 13:56:35 sellout: just trying to get to feel more comfortable in CL :) right now I feel like a fish taken out of water 13:56:53 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:58:05 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:58:50 slash_ [~unknown@pD955C6A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:52 H4ns: system-source-directory takes a system designator, so it's not strictly needed to use find-system 13:59:12 Xach: ah, nice, thanks. i also think i should use the ignore-errors 13:59:15 H4ns: also, consider (asdf:system-relative-pathname :hunchentoot "www/") to get the base 13:59:35 or similar 13:59:58 Xach: looks much better, thanks! 14:00:25 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-qxildhblewiotlog] has quit [Client Quit] 14:00:45 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ndocswwinoxeomet] has joined #lisp 14:01:38 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:02:30 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955C6A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:04:45 H4ns: nice slides from ZSLUG 14:05:09 Xach: thanks. it was a fun day in zurich 14:09:15 *Xach* adds zslug to planet lisp 14:09:52 is that a tool for compressing gastropods? 14:10:42 rsynnott: yes, and a swiss gathering of lisp nerds 14:15:22 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:15:34 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.84.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 14:17:02 So, is github the canonical SBCL repo now, or is antifuchs just mirroring it? 14:19:48 ilowhy [~ilowhy@183.83.53.180] has joined #lisp 14:20:34 Is the whole concept of canonical repo dying? 14:20:46 no to both :) 14:20:47 nikodemus, memo from pkhuong: I just have to commit the 2 line change, but you're more likely to actually commit in the next couple days, so go ahead. 14:20:59 silenius [~silenus@dslb-088-075-064-071.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:24 sbcl.boinkor.net is the closest thing to canonical until sf cvs comes back online, or we switch the shared repo to git 14:21:27 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.2.82.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:22:06 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:22:42 pkhuong: i have a patch that also replaces the source transform with a derive-type optimizer -- in all cases i tested the source transform was either a loss or a wash vs out-of-line constantly 14:23:43 (i appear to be constitutionally unable to touch sbcl without thinking about performance right now) 14:27:31 nikodemus: sure. If it really matters for someoneone, we could always hack through the argument list parsing ;) 14:30:19 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@122.237.3.132] has quit [Quit: I need to code or sleep now .] 14:31:08 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755034.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:57 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:29 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:55 zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.84.39] has joined #lisp 14:34:56 memechaser [~memechase@pya013000043.lancs.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 thoolihan [~Tim@209.221.3.130] has joined #lisp 14:35:11 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 14:36:03 -!- thoolihan [~Tim@209.221.3.130] has left #lisp 14:37:33 huh, don't people profile on x86-64? 14:37:49 wallclock sb-sprof has been broken there for quite a while, it seems 14:38:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-42-19.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: Till later.] 14:38:03 threaded, that is 14:38:34 (nothing serious, just reversed argument in the define-alien-routine for pthread_kill 14:38:47 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-ibtgcfrqktuebdoo] has joined #lisp 14:38:50 -!- Grazl [~Grazl@23.Red-81-36-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:01 tcr1 [~tcr@gprs57.swisscom-mobile.ch] has joined #lisp 14:40:54 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 14:42:29 -!- benny [~benny@i577A333E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:44:20 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:52 fusss [~fusss@1.145.216.111] has joined #lisp 14:45:19 hi, anyone have a snippet for restas:render-object? I just can't wrap my head around it 14:46:50 benny [~benny@i577A2384.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:50:22 fusss: I don't have the impression that many english-speakers use restas yet. 14:51:12 Xach: alright. I cloned rulisp and looks _very_ clean; certainly a good example for multilingual lisp web app. 14:51:19 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:51:35 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.84.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:54:20 -!- memechaser [~memechase@pya013000043.lancs.ac.uk] has left #lisp 14:55:07 his design for modules/submodules looks like java beans done RIGHT. this is the first I have seen of dynamic Lisp components. Modeled after, and built on top of packages. 14:55:15 MoALTz [~no@92.2.82.175] has joined #lisp 14:57:27 question is, how robust is Lisp software structured around runtime components, vs, AoT loaded asdf libs and deliberately using packages. 14:58:29 What is AoT? 14:58:51 all i see is "buzzwordy buzzword vs. buzzwordny buzzwordness" 14:59:11 Xach: ahead of time 14:59:15 Xach: AoT is usually "ahead of time" 14:59:22 because of the word robust? 15:00:03 robust, components, AoT 15:00:20 koning_robot: i'm just trying to hide my ignorance by calling everything i don't understand a buzzword 15:00:30 I just feel uneasy about (with-foo (find-module :foo) ..) looks clean, you can add functionality at runtime, but .. 15:00:51 what does find-module do? 15:01:15 torbjornm [~tm@ti0009a380-dhcp2521.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:01:17 what does with-foo do? 15:01:22 sorry, I'm just thinking out loud exorcising my own daemons. If you're used to doing hunchentoot in one way, restas does them in another, most likely better way. Just need to understand it. 15:01:38 http://restas.lisper.ru/en/manual/modules.html 15:02:06 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:11 it's amazingy well-documented. 15:02:15 amazingly* 15:02:40 stassats: ah, excellent 15:03:37 -!- hugod_ [~hugod@76.66.181.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:37 restas modules are like Lisp packages, but not quite. Better package, in the sense that they also offer a context for dynamic variables. You can bind variable in one place, and they will hold throughout the package. they're DYNAMIC. 15:03:38 hugod__ [~hugod@76.66.181.126] has joined #lisp 15:03:38 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:45 zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.84.39] has joined #lisp 15:04:23 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:04:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-0-140.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 15:04:25 sykopomp: it's well documented, but I just can't figure out RENDER-OBJECT; how does it work? 15:05:07 *stassats* , being afraid of everything new, refuses to accept restas's superiority 15:05:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-030.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:06:14 fusss: it works just like magnets. 15:06:16 malbertife_ [~marcoalbe@193.136.122.17] has joined #lisp 15:06:17 restas seems neats, but I'm in pretty deep with weblocks these days. 15:06:45 milkpost [~milkpost@173-26-33-120.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:06:57 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 15:07:19 someone should write webcells  15:08:04 i think his kenniness did more or less that with qooxlisp (but it's wholly undocumented and tied to allegrocl) 15:08:28 ugh, webcells... 15:08:35 with locks, to build a webjail 15:08:37 why not ht-computed-class? 15:09:00 morning #lispers 15:09:05 bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-115-134.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:14 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:09:14 tobik [~tobik@p549FF4A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:27 hey slyrus 15:09:55 ? anyone know the the secret to getting aquamacs to play well with slime's presentation menus - tx in advance 15:10:09 another thing. Slime went dog slow showing hints after I dumped a fat image containing my web-dev libraries. (clozure, win32) 15:10:13 sellout: i think there was some webcells thing, can't quite recall the name 15:10:15 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:32 milanj [~milanj_@77-46-249-102.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:10:33 i'm now a bit obsessed with webclim 15:10:44 fusss: use M-x elp-instrument-package RET slime RET 15:10:49 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 15:10:50 to profile 15:10:56 *sykopomp* is using qooxlisp in production 15:11:45 stassats: did that. how do I stop profiling and get the data? and who do I give it afterward? :-) 15:12:10 -!- malbertife_ [~marcoalbe@193.136.122.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12:11 strangely named M-x elp-results 15:12:57 sellout: the SymbolicWeb might be the one had in mind 15:13:04 sykopomp: yeah but you work for kenny, don't you? 15:13:34 /join #opengl 15:13:45 stassats: thanks :-) right now everything is <= 0.06; will try later 15:14:00 quick, everyone, talk about polygon shading! 15:14:06 koning_robot: I do. 15:14:07 heh :P 15:14:11 I don't enjoy Cells. 15:15:02 sykopomp: how does it feel to work with Lispers IRL; are they as horrible in person as they're online? 15:15:23 i've no experience with cells 15:15:27 Cells is a good idea, but the implementation... made us write our own hu.dwim.computed-class 15:15:28 -!- Raykon [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:16:01 metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has joined #lisp 15:16:16 attila_lendvai: I don't think you need much convincing to write your own of anything ;-) 15:16:51 I remember when I first heard Kenny give a talk on Cells, I was really confused about it until someone else explained it to me later. 15:17:13 fusss: if you are in eu then come to ELS 2011 and see for yourself. I've enjoyed the company of lispers in two ELS' already. 15:17:20 attila_lendvai: that's pretty much how I feel. 15:17:24 *sellout* is excited about ELS 2011 15:17:25 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 15:17:44 fusss: No comment. 15:18:02 *Xach* has had great times at two ILCs and multiple Boston Lisp Meetings 15:18:35 The BLMs were always a little intimidating, but fun. TCLispers was more relaxed and comfortable. 15:18:50 Does anyone use lanyrd? http://lanyrd.com/2011/4th-european-lisp-symposium/ 15:18:57 folks, that was just me taking the mickey. wasn't serious. 15:19:02 None of my friends who use it actually go to the same confs as me. 15:19:36 bhyde: you could rebind it to another mouse gesture: (define-key slime-presentation-map [M-mouse-3] 'slime-presentation-menu) 15:19:42 attila_lendvai: closest thing here would be the ILC in Japan thing (is that still happening in Japan?) 15:19:43 bhyde: tx! 15:19:54 fusss: Doesn't seem likely from the discussion in Reno. 15:20:16 fusss: But maybe the discussion has changed since then (I'm not on any ALU mailing lists) 15:20:26 -!- |nix|`` [~user@cpe-72-226-54-44.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:20:40 |nix|`` [~user@cpe-72-226-54-44.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:21:45 Xach: oh, thanks for the update 15:23:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@127.57.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:23:53 Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.250] has joined #lisp 15:24:25 nevertheles, writing restas code like old hunchentoot code. hate it when I write code that I know is unidiomatic and will have to revise. 15:24:29 fusss: re our NIH syndrome: we usually try first with the existing libs. for example we used 5am for half a year before we darcs initialized stefil... I've hacked on UCW for about 2 years and we even delivered real life projects with it before we rolled our own... but yes, we don't need too long debates to initialize a new repo... 15:25:37 and if the new thing seems to work out with reasonable effort, then we're already on the way with the refactoring of the rest of the codebase... 15:25:39 Joreji [~thomas@90-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:25:39 attila_lendvai: way too humble and self-effacing my friend. There are two types of programmers: those who reinvent the wheel, and those who can't reinvent the wheel. 15:25:54 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kcnoanndcswrhvgp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:25:57 fender [~chatzilla@61-62-164-43-adsl-tai.dynamic.so-net.net.tw] has joined #lisp 15:26:29 attila_lendvai: I had the same feeling about many libraries; but I don't have the patience/skill/resources to rewrite them, so I just move on :-| 15:27:10 http://planet.lisp.org/meetings/ shows 2 european lisp symposiums - one to april 1st, one to may 1st. which one is correct? 15:27:30 -!- fender [~chatzilla@61-62-164-43-adsl-tai.dynamic.so-net.net.tw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:38 flip214: google :) http://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/ 15:28:19 sykopomp: boston meeting was intimidating? why, was it held in an underground biker bar? 15:28:30 fusss: naw, overground. 15:28:34 flip214: perhaps it's month-long 15:28:45 *Xach* fixes the calendar 15:29:08 Xach understands me .... Perhaps I should have just asked "who can fix this" ;-) 15:29:31 later folks, back to restas 15:29:35 -!- fusss [~fusss@1.145.216.111] has left #lisp 15:32:26 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-171-12-242.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:32:57 I just always felt pressure to make sure I could hold my ground at the BLM. Lots of fantastic, smart, experienced lispers over there. 15:34:00 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:34:02 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-120-221.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 15:34:57 e-user1 [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-gwcoduvchrsyebbr] has joined #lisp 15:34:57 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-120-221.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:35:18 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:35:45 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 15:36:15 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 15:37:09 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ndocswwinoxeomet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:50 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.2.82.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:39:24 sellout: no, what is on my github account there is just a proposal I submitted to sbcl-devel for review 15:39:40 it is far from being the official new repo or anything 15:45:50 hmm, is there an issue if i'm calling function that binds custom readtable from hunchentoot handler ? 15:46:18 it's acting differently (from calling same fun from REPL) 15:48:32 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.84.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:49:14 antifuchs: do you use homebrew exclusively and not macports? 15:49:14 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-103-135.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 15:50:51 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:12 yes! 15:53:40 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-65-101.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 15:53:46 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-65-101.xnet.hr] has quit [Client Quit] 15:54:03 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-65-101.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 15:54:18 csamuelson [~csamuelso@173-14-110-121-nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-0-140.monradsl.monornet.hu] has left #lisp 15:55:33 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:55:48 minion: logs 15:55:48 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 15:56:58 The logs on clozure.com appear to stop on Jan 24. 15:58:44 oh, is that still not fixed? 15:59:06 -!- cbbrowne [~user@tor-gateway.afilias.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:10 Blkt [~user@160.80.120.102] has joined #lisp 15:59:21 antifuchs: OK, I still haven't made the switch yet. contemplating it though... 15:59:39 slyrus: it's well worth it 16:00:08 good day everyone 16:00:32 slyrus: apart from not having to wait for stuff like gettext to build (which is included in osx), "brew edit formula-name" is my favorite part (: 16:02:31 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:37 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-26-33-120.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:04:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05:24 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:06:20 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-117-158.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:56 lirt [~lirt@88.205.169.42] has joined #lisp 16:08:14 I find it amusing that nobody has the resources to run a build machine to generate a binary package distro for OSX 16:08:15 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:24 cpc261 [~cpc26@66.87.1.147] has joined #lisp 16:08:40 foom: they're just so taken by the concept of port systems (: 16:08:56 I think all of them (except maybe homebrew) have the concept of binary packages 16:09:04 they just don't have very many of them built 16:09:08 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-87.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:09:43 yeah, because they always cause problems (: 16:10:20 macports even lets you export an installer from built ports, which when used with different versions of the base OS will try to overwrite stuff in /System/Library/. not fun. 16:10:30 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@66.87.11.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11:03 -!- e-user1 [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-gwcoduvchrsyebbr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:11:12 Jasko [~tjasko@74.43.36.130] has joined #lisp 16:11:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@74.43.36.130] has quit [Client Quit] 16:11:20 why would macports put stuff in /System/Library in the first place?!? 16:11:42 why would there be such a thing as mac anyways? 16:12:16 foom: it doesn't, the installer thinks it should go there, though. something to do with packages and registered file redirections or something. 16:12:16 they keep you distracted, and they are making money like that. 16:12:25 anyway. this is going way into the off-topic direction. 16:12:33 no shit^^ 16:13:09 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-8b92e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:14:08 why does asdf fail to compile file A, without visible reason, when compile-file on the same works just fine? 16:14:16 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-vhmhlrvspubecshu] has joined #lisp 16:15:07 does compile-file return NIL for its failure-p result value? 16:15:29 nope 16:15:58 I have a warning condition... 16:16:09 caught WARNING: 16:16:09 ; TRIAKIS.PASSWORD also shadows the following symbols: 16:16:10 ; (NULL) 16:16:42 is it ironclads fault for exporting NULL? 16:16:48 I sure think so 16:17:13 wakeup_: But Ironclad's null is _secure_. 16:17:15 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffec15.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 16:17:20 lol 16:17:44 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 16:17:48 sellout: no reason to force it in like hard cock 16:17:49 I prefer /dev/null, nobody has ever stolen data from there 16:18:23 pnq [~nick@ACA24D7D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:24 has anyone ever used /dev/null? 16:18:27 I havent 16:18:41 and everytime someone says they do, they lie 16:18:50 wakeup_: so just delete it. 16:19:03 I did, and I have the records to prove it. They're in... oh, dear. 16:19:16 :) 16:19:40 cpc262 [~cpc26@66.87.0.186] has joined #lisp 16:19:46 is it possible to tell if a stream is already closed? you can call close repeatedly, but it's implementation specific 16:20:20 bhyde: stream-open-p? 16:20:20 bhyde: open-stream-p 16:20:30 ah. 16:20:34 *ehu* can't copy/paste. 16:21:21 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-ibtgcfrqktuebdoo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:25 wakeup_: (:shadowing-import-from #:cl #:null) 16:21:30 -!- cpc261 [~cpc26@66.87.1.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:21:36 wakeup_: i did ask the same question. 16:21:42 hehe 16:21:47 what does taht exactly do? 16:22:01 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-64-51.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:14 G'morning all. 16:22:20 hi nyef 16:22:27 wakeup_: uses cl's null in your package not ironclads. 16:22:40 wakeup_: ie the one you need. 16:22:40 :) 16:22:53 MoALTz [~no@92.2.82.175] has joined #lisp 16:23:08 malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdIII-IV.nat.fct.unl.pt] has joined #lisp 16:23:13 grate 16:23:15 great 16:23:38 I will use :import-from though, since I only use one function of the package 16:23:51 dlowe: interesting, it is not mentioned in the list of query functions allowed after the close enumerated in the doc for close :) 16:23:52 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdIII-IV.nat.fct.unl.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 16:23:55 just remembered it from pcl 16:24:27 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:31 can I somehow undef a package? 16:27:22 basimple [~basimple@112.154.21.152] has joined #lisp 16:27:31 I guess not 16:27:59 clhs delete-package 16:28:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_del_pk.htm 16:28:53 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:28:57 -!- silenius [~silenus@dslb-088-075-064-071.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:21 vser [~vser@78-22-154-231.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:29:46 -!- vser is now known as Landr 16:30:29 bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 16:31:27 cpc263 [~cpc26@66.87.4.117] has joined #lisp 16:32:12 -!- cpc263 [~cpc26@66.87.4.117] has left #lisp 16:32:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-42-19.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:32:45 hello, i need to ceate a association list with a structure of symbol  list (like ((a. (1 2 3)) (b . (4 5 6))...)) problem: i do not know how many elements i get beforehand and the user needs to be able to read them via entering a symbol. I'm looking for something that can generate human readable symbols like 'aaa 'aab and so on. how do i accomplish this? 16:33:06 malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has joined #lisp 16:33:32 bad_alloc: generate your own string and use INTERN? 16:33:34 wakeup_: dunno if your compile-file question was answered before, but a full WARNING counts as a compile failure 16:33:38 -!- cpc262 [~cpc26@66.87.0.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:33:48 so asdf will think it failed, and give up 16:34:15 ehu: perfect i didn't know about that thing :) 16:35:48 bad_alloc: remember that if you don't STRING-UPCASE the incoming string, your symbols will be |foo| (by default). 16:36:43 ok 16:37:05 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #lisp 16:37:31 -!- basimple [~basimple@112.154.21.152] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:38:28 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:39:13 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-120-221.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:39:25 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:39:41 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:39:48 cpc26 [~cpc26@66.87.4.117] has joined #lisp 16:40:24 symbols in cl are case insesitive right? 16:40:24 mega1 [~user@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 16:40:33 no 16:40:45 damn... 16:41:08 chopwood [~chopwood@c-24-63-111-251.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:12 CL-USER> (eq 'a 'A) -> T //why not? 16:41:27 right! 16:41:33 the reader normalizes to uppercase 16:41:33 bad_alloc: the reader upcases symbol names 16:41:34 bad_alloc: the reader upcases symbol names. 16:41:39 lol 16:41:43 but |a| and a aren't the same. 16:41:44 Try (eq '|a| '|A|) 16:41:48 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:03 so why does the reader do that? 16:42:05 Symbols are case sensitive -- the reader is just doing case normalization. 16:42:07 really confusing 16:42:15 (eq (intern "a") (intern "A")) 16:42:23 to bypass the reader in this matter. 16:42:27 In ancient times some terminals only supported one case. 16:42:49 so smybols are represented by utf-8 strings (in sbcl) or what? 16:42:55 There's also a lot of people that feel pretty strongly about anything that encourages CamelCase. 16:43:12 Vectors of characters. 16:43:22 wakeup_: symbols are objects. They have symbol-names. Those are strings. 16:43:39 urandom__ [~user@p548A4A43.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:47 hmm, smells like some major rewriting^^ 16:43:52 wakeup_: symbol has symbol-name, which is a string. strings in unicode-enabled SBCL are arrays of 21-bit characters 16:44:05 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has left #lisp 16:44:26 I thought symbols were case insesnitive so I useed strings for keys... 16:44:32 wakeup_: symbols themselves are simple objects, which is why eq works on them. 16:44:38 kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has joined #lisp 16:44:46 -!- kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has left #lisp 16:45:27 hm how do i generate symbols that are alphabetically ascending? (aaa, aab, aac...). is there some format recipe or do i have to use some integer to char conversions? 16:45:28 strings for keys are okay, except (eq str1 str2) may not do what you expect it. Symbols are nice, light, speedy keys. 16:45:41 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:58 bad-alloc: Why do you want that? 16:46:03 bad_alloc: you may be interested in intern 16:46:07 clhs intern 16:46:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_intern.htm 16:46:09 bad-alloc: Or perhaps gensym. 16:46:15 -!- wakeup_ [~max@p5790FB73.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:47:48 i need alphabetic symbols (aaa, aab, aac...). i know now that i can intern a string to get my symbol but how do i get the strings to intern 16:48:14 atm i'm trying to use three integers and convert them to chars 16:49:37 why do you need alphabetical symbols? 16:49:38 count in base 26 and use the digits as indices to an alphabet 16:50:20 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:50:22 stassats: users need to access them 16:50:32 In CVS SLIME, when I 'q' in a SLDB buffer, I always have a wrong number of arguments... 16:50:33 why do they need to access them? 16:50:36 koning_robot: thats it, perfect 16:50:38 (char "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz" number) 16:51:03 *dlowe* thinks this sequential alphabet thing is just a fad 16:51:18 stassats: because of bad design :) no seriously, it's just an programming assignment and i need some way to "name" the elements i'm operating on 16:51:25 data representation requirements: Enemies of the programmer. 16:51:26 like "put box abc on def" 16:51:34 s/representation/presentation/ 16:51:59 dlowe: (digit-char (+ number 10) 36) 16:52:03 bad_alloc: how many objects are there? maybe you could name them after people. 16:52:21 stassats: clever 16:53:06 stassats: nice 16:53:15 Xach: I know it sounds slightly stupid, but it says here "boxes need to be named" 16:53:57 bad_alloc: I don't think it's stupid. Was just thinking "abk" is not as friendly as "Bob" or "Stuart". 16:53:58 bad_alloc: wakko, yakko, and dot? 16:54:22 where is this going? 16:54:32 name them after boxers 16:54:44 bad_alloc: Are there more than 100 boxes? 16:55:30 the number isn't specified anywhere but it should be as many as one wishes 16:55:49 *arbitraryly many 16:56:02 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:56:19 can you get away with using numbers to name them? 16:56:57 i'd have to ask, but i believe "name" was generally understood as something alphabetical 16:57:40 How can i read to a bit-vector from an octet stream? 16:58:04 drdo: Read octets, convert to bits. 16:58:11 Xach: meh 16:58:26 you can interpret a number in base 26 and map each digit to an alpha char 16:58:44 adeht: deja vu! 16:58:56 *adeht* just arrived at the scene ;) 16:59:27 drdo: What did you hope the answer would be? sb-ext:read-bit-vector? 16:59:38 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:45 drdo: lie to the compiler 17:00:27 in sbcl you can say that your bit-vector is an unsigned-byte 8 vector, and it will believe you 17:00:58 lurker-x [~androirc@166.189.204.161] has joined #lisp 17:01:08 That's not really portable 17:01:35 SBCL is portable 17:01:43 I see 17:01:59 you can run SBCL under any sufficiently ANSI CL 17:02:09 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:27 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-120-221.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:03:32 -!- dmytrish [~dmytrish@193.239.152.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:37 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA24D7D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03:47 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:28 k3karthic [~k3@220.225.222.227] has joined #lisp 17:04:35 Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.36] has joined #lisp 17:05:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:06:26 -!- Blkt [~user@160.80.120.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:06:52 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:31 bad_alloc: here's a cute way: (format nil "~@R" number) 17:08:55 but it's rather limited 17:09:04 Heh. Haven't seen ~@R used very often. 17:09:13 Tops out at about four thousand, doesn't it? 17:09:24 would help in implementing INTERCAL 17:09:33 stassats: yeah, 1 to 3999 17:09:42 (note no zero ;) 17:09:54 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-vhmhlrvspubecshu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:09:55 hm, that limitation might be a problem :_/ 17:10:02 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.107.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:24 use ~R then? 17:10:29 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:38 i'm going to try to go for integers as names, but that'll have to wait untill tomorrow. thanks for the ides so far :) 17:10:41 bad_alloc: then the first step is to write a DIGITS function that takes an integer an a base and returns a list of digits in that base 17:11:09 (that represent the integer) 17:12:02 on SBCL ~r goes up to (expt 10 66) 17:12:10 not inclusive 17:13:06 nyef: what's more surprising is that there's also ~:@R 17:14:46 adeht: that's what convinced me to switch to Lisp 17:14:59 i couldn't live without printing 4 as IIII in inferior languages 17:15:10 yes.. python/ruby/whatever: where's your batteries now 17:15:23 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-103-135.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:15:42 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:15:53 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 17:16:07 I've used ~@R in two different projects, for generating copyright notices in websites. :-) 17:16:24 not Y4K compliant 17:17:02 rins [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:11 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:20:32 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:20:46 great, i can use numbers as identifiers. adeht: Y4K? 17:21:32 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:01 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-8-91.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 17:22:03 http://i.imgur.com/adRvf.jpg 17:22:04 2*Y2K 17:22:08 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:22:14 Xach: why does it underline? 17:22:17 bad_alloc: It doesn't produce values higher than MMMCMXCIX or so. 17:23:06 adeht: To match the style of despair.com, e.g. http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/demotivators/achievementdemotivationalposter.jpg 17:23:08 adeht: if only there was some directive which could print A, AA, AAA instead of I, II, III 17:23:22 Xach: oh 17:24:59 shyam [~user@117.198.113.238] has joined #lisp 17:25:37 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-8-91.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:52 *redline6561* laughs hard at adeht's batteries 17:25:55 -!- shyam is now known as Jin 17:26:25 hi ! I am Jin.. a lisp n00b 17:26:28 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.201] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:27:01 can anyone help me out here.. I am trying out something with screencast mode emacs 17:27:04 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-8-91.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:27:08 Jin: What's up? 17:27:28 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-8-91.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:46 Do you think there were Romans who opposed adopting the Arab numbering system? "Holy fuck these numbers are stupid, can't we convert to the Arab way?" "No, no, we are Romans, we are proud." 17:27:48 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:28:01 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:08 hey.. 17:28:12 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e46.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:28:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:28:33 Jin: /join #emacs. This channel is for Common Lisp. 17:28:36 I am trying to use screencast.el .. and i hav some trouble concatenating lists using defconsts 17:28:51 Jin: for emacs lisp help, try #emacs. This channel is for Common Lisp. 17:29:13 Okay.. thanks.. 17:29:17 i ll try that out.. 17:29:23 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.113] has joined #lisp 17:29:31 chopwood: did roman mathematicians ever get to conatcts arabs? 17:29:35 chopwood: more likely they said it was a subjective issue and no one number system is better than any other, and that you just have to accept that some people are happy with the number system they use 17:29:35 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:29:38 chopwood: just look at americans and the metric system 17:30:09 I am kinda interested in lisp.. so where can i find good lisp material.. does irc here have any good stuff which you can share ? 17:30:10 Hey! Leave the imperial measurements alone! 17:30:21 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:28 how interested were romans in mathematics? because if there had been sufficient interest one could assume that they should have thought the stuff with zero up at some time 17:30:31 minion, tell Jin about PCL 17:30:32 Jin: have a look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 17:30:37 bad_alloc: obviously it happened at some point 17:30:45 contact, that is 17:30:56 minion: nice to see you :) 17:30:56 i enjoy to see me too 17:30:59 lol 17:31:00 chopwood: yes but the roman numerals survived 17:31:02 Jin: I think it's useful to learn about specific languages, and Lisp is not all that specific. There are different resources to learn about things like Emacs lisp, Common Lisp, Scheme, etc. Practical Common Lisp is a very nice common lisp book. 17:31:07 Jin: Common Lisp is not the same language that emacs uses. That is called Emacs Lisp. 17:31:11 zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.84.39] has joined #lisp 17:31:26 I don't like the by #'cddr is there a better way to write (loop for (x y) on '(a 1 b 2) by #'cddr collect x collect y) ? 17:31:36 minion: who are you 17:31:36 why do you want to know? 17:31:37 by 'cddr 17:31:43 :3 17:31:43 kiuma: one option is to get over it. 17:31:45 is minion an eliza bot? 17:32:01 minion: are you an eliza bot? 17:32:02 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 17:32:07 I am an extensive user of emacs.. and I want to do more for making things easier for myself.. 17:32:18 so I thought i ll checkout the irc.. 17:32:23 you can loop for i from 0 to (length list) by 2 and get O(n^2) performance 17:32:25 minion: google lisp 17:32:26 Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 49 seconds is too many. 17:32:26 my first login in here... 17:32:30 leo2007 [~leo@120.37.103.111] has joined #lisp 17:32:30 Jin: you'll have to ask the folks in #emacs about things having to do with Emacs Lisp. 17:32:34 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 17:32:47 chopwood: the latest such farce I saw was the idea of "Mecca time"... 17:32:55 bad_alloc: There's an eliza-doctor in minion somewhere, but there's so much stuff layered over it that it can be hard to find. 17:33:01 Raykon [~user@bl11-215-14.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 17:33:37 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-8b92e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 17:33:38 is he/she/it open source? 17:34:02 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.84.39] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:34:20 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:34:20 because my last lisp irc bot got stuck an those stupid pong messages ;) 17:35:01 bad_alloc: I think (most of?) minion's code is included with cl-irc. 17:35:13 Mostly. Minion is based on the cliki-bot example in cl-irc. 17:36:00 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 17:37:42 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:16 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 17:38:16 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 17:38:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:38:21 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755034.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:44 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:56 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 17:40:17 -!- Liera [~Liera@113.172.70.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:41:29 -!- lurker-x [~androirc@166.189.204.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:41:49 thx, bye 17:42:03 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:42:28 minion: regarding zero, you can't use a hindsight "obviousness" argument to show anything. Special Relativity should have followed once Maxwell's equations were written down. It's obvious (and it is), so I guess people weren't "interested" in science. 17:42:29 i'm written in common lisp 17:42:50 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-65-101.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:43:17 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-65-101.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 17:43:20 chopwood: you are speaking in the wrong channel. 17:43:28 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:51 tirinim. 17:44:02 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:55 malbertife_ [~marcoalbe@193.136.122.17] has joined #lisp 17:47:13 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-65-60.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 17:48:22 p_l|home [~pl@213.5.11.129] has joined #lisp 17:48:30 -!- p_l|home [~pl@213.5.11.129] has left #lisp 17:49:01 -!- lirt [~lirt@88.205.169.42] has left #lisp 17:51:45 lirt [~lirt@88.205.169.42] has joined #lisp 17:52:38 In a a macro, how to force evaluation of a parameter? For example: (with-open-file (stream my-file ........)) => if 'stream' is bound to some value, how to make that value seen in the expansion, if possible? 17:53:05 or is it not possible? 17:53:38 stream will not be bound at expansion time 17:54:07 I think you're confused about times, e.g. macroexpansion time and evaluation time.. if the value of stream is available at read time, however, you can use #. 17:54:14 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 17:54:31 rien__ [~rien_@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:48 (and note that with-open-file expects a symbol to name a variable, not a stream) 17:55:26 I have a macro that defines some commands and would like to generate the commands dynamically... 17:55:47 gko: then it's likely that you don't want a macro 17:55:56 adeht: (with-open-file was just an example). 17:56:14 rule of thumb: If 'dynamic' is part of your description, macros are probably not the droids you're looking for. 17:57:15 Actually, it's Emacs Lisp, but it should be the same problem: 17:57:15 (defmacro defslime-start (name mapping) 17:57:15 `(defun ,name () 17:57:15 (interactive) 17:57:15 (let ((slime-default-lisp ,mapping)) 17:57:16 (slime)))) 17:57:24 (defslime-start clisp 'clisp) 17:57:41 -!- k3karthic [~k3@220.225.222.227] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:57:49 gko: Do you know about M M-x slime ? 17:57:57 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-120-221.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:58:13 and the variable slime-lisp-implementations? 17:58:18 -!- rien [~rien_@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:59:01 Yes, I know M-- M-x slime & slime-lisp-impelmentations. 17:59:32 -!- rien__ [~rien_@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:59:39 gko: what's the problem with this code? (I've not tried it) 17:59:55 gko: you can make another macro that generates these names and expands to multiple (defslime-start ...) forms in a progn 18:00:52 gko: are you looking to just write (defslime-start clisp) and use ',name instead of ,mapping? 18:00:57 adeht: the problem is I want to do a (dolist (impl (impl1 impl2 ...)) (defslime-start X Y)) 18:01:24 gko: see antifuchs's remark then 18:01:28 that is, having: (defslime-start impl1 'impl1), (defslime-start impl2 'impl2)... 18:02:03 gko: in worst case, if you still want to "dynamically" use the defslime-start macro.. there's eval 18:03:15 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:03:47 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 18:05:30 rien [~rien_@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:22 gko: you may also want to look into `fset' 18:07:22 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #lisp 18:07:55 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffec15.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:45 milkpost [~milkpost@2620:0:e50:1018:5ab0:35ff:fef2:43c5] has joined #lisp 18:09:23 OK, I'll check... thanks! 18:09:24 ASau` [~user@95-26-230-11.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:11:26 carlocci [~nes@93.37.177.105] has joined #lisp 18:13:38 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-147-227.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:13:42 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-115.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:14:48 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 18:16:23 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:17:06 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 18:18:40 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:19:11 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 18:20:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:20:51 -!- masonium [~user@vpn.tgsmc.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:11 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-115.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:22:49 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 18:23:14 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:40 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 18:25:36 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:27:20 mascotte [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-64-206.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:29:54 -!- bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: EOU] 18:30:46 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@208.69.183.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:31:23 kpreid [~kpreid@0-26-8-df-7b-63.wlan.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 18:31:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-42-19.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:31:39 konr [~user@garfield.lab.ic.unicamp.br] has joined #lisp 18:32:15 gz [~gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:43 shachaf [~shachaf@208.69.183.87] has joined #lisp 18:34:56 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@2620:0:e50:1018:5ab0:35ff:fef2:43c5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:31 milkpost [~milkpost@2620:0:e50:1018:5ab0:35ff:fef2:43c5] has joined #lisp 18:36:50 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:41:05 clhs defgeneric 18:41:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defgen.htm 18:41:59 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.230.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:46:51 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:48:42 Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@188.53.180.106] has joined #lisp 18:48:58 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@0-26-8-df-7b-63.wlan.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 18:50:47 -!- [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:51:03 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:27 -!- torbjornm [~tm@ti0009a380-dhcp2521.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:56:15 hi 18:58:11 [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 18:58:34 -!- gz [~gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:58:59 clhs call-next-method 18:58:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_call_n.htm 18:59:14 -!- kruft [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:59:38 -!- malbertife_ [~marcoalbe@193.136.122.17] has quit [Quit: malbertife_] 18:59:56 tcr1: don't you have slime? 19:01:22 zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.84.39] has joined #lisp 19:01:33 nice that call-next-method has indefinite extent 19:01:53 I wonder if it is going to haunt me if I rely on it :-) 19:01:58 haha 19:01:59 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:02:10 "I AM THE GHOST OF CALL-NEXT-METHODS PAST" 19:02:17 you mean that you can pass it around? 19:02:40 you can use it in a closure that's invoked any time later 19:02:56 that's...special 19:03:25 jdz [~jdz@host254-109-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:03:28 that seems like a nice way to write very obfuscated code. :) 19:03:35 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 19:04:12 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:10 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-65-60.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:02 astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-78-12-79-14.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:07:11 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@gprs57.swisscom-mobile.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:08:21 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.84.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:10:33 zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.84.39] has joined #lisp 19:11:39 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 19:11:47 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:14:43 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:14:44 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 19:15:26 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:01 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.2.82.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:17:02 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 19:17:10 hello lispers! 19:18:15 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:19:06 hun [~user@91-65-90-50-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:19:21 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:19 -!- Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@188.53.180.106] has left #lisp 19:22:24 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:41 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.138.126] has joined #lisp 19:24:43 when using the format control "~[ ... ~]" what does the spec mean by false/true wrt alternate/consequent? 19:25:11 nil, non-nil 19:25:14 obviously 19:25:23 e.g. what is idiomatatic usage of the spec example for: 19:25:23 (format nil "~[Siamese~;Manx~;Persian~:;Alley~] Cat" {...}) 19:25:39 this is not for false/true 19:26:01 read the whole page more carefully 19:27:24 stassats: what I don't understand is this part: "If arg is out of range then no clause is 19:27:25 selected and no error is signaled." 19:27:55 mon_key: if you have three clauses and the argument is 4, then nothing will be inserted 19:29:07 or -1 i get that. I guess I'm asking if: The spec requires an integer and what is an example of idiomatic usage of this format control? 19:29:56 *rtoym* thinks the example is pretty idiomatic, but he doesn't use that very often. 19:30:08 mon_key: Plain ~[ isn't used that much. 19:30:21 mon_key: though I've used it when outputting text from an array index 19:30:37 I'm looking at an example from the CLOCC 19:30:52 mon_key: "~[~;~v@{1~@*~:}~:;~@*~(~vR~)~]~%" 19:31:01 stassats: buh. 19:31:16 (let ((cmd-num (position arg +commands+ :test #'string-equal))) (format nil "~[Cmd A~;Cmd B~;Cmd C~]" cmd-num)) 19:31:42 This is where I whip out w-o-t-s and rant about FORMAT can go to hell for anything beyond simple interpolation. 19:31:43 so does the spec require that cmd-num be an integer 19:31:48 (format nil "~[~;~v@{1~@*~:}~:;~@*~(~vR~)~]" 16 42) => 2a 19:31:50 (format nil "~[~;~v@{1~@*~:}~:;~@*~(~vR~)~]" 1 42) => "111111111111111111111111111111111111111111" 19:31:57 idiomatic, huh? 19:32:04 TDT [~user@74.115.254.25] has joined #lisp 19:32:07 stassats: thanx 19:32:19 mon_key: I've seen it used much more in its ~@[ and ~:[ forms 19:32:37 *stassats* uses ~@[ all the time 19:32:50 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-87.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:03 ~:[ is great for outputting the meaning of booleans, like enable/disable 19:33:07 yeah. ~@[ is sweet. 19:33:11 FWIW I'm looking at the conditions is in CLOCC port/ext.lisp for the `code' and `case-error' conditions. 19:33:11 so is ~:[ 19:33:49 I didn't think anybody was using CLOCC anymore 19:34:36 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:34:41 Depends on what part of CLOCC you're talking about. I still use the f2cl part of CLOCC. 19:35:11 ah 19:35:21 I was thinking of the port stuff 19:35:34 I suspect only Sam uses that. 19:35:34 (which used to be terribly outdated for sbcl) 19:35:35 mon_key pasted "clocc case-error/code conditions" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119525 19:35:50 time for quickclocc 19:36:08 Eww. 19:36:15 hah 19:36:25 ~@[ ~?~] is pretty neat (: 19:36:35 oh god. I just said that. 19:36:38 the nested "~?" turned my head around [: 19:38:07 (format t "~?" "~a" '(10)) is like (apply #'format t "~a" '(10)) 19:39:17 yeah but here he is using it inside of an "~@[ ~?~]" 19:39:33 it means that don't-do-anything if the format string is nil 19:41:20 -!- jdz [~jdz@host254-109-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:38 I really appreciate ~? myself, because I like writing functions that take arguments like format 19:41:51 (syslog "foo: ~a" 'bar) 19:44:00 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:10 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:45:24 tcr1: wrt the pasted code it would mean to not do anything if both the 1 and 2 arg are null 19:45:28 -!- ilowhy [~ilowhy@183.83.53.180] has quit [Quit: ilowhy] 19:46:01 no 19:46:24 what am i missing? 19:47:34 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-65-101.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:48:18 don't forget about ~{~} 19:48:28 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-79-223.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 19:48:29 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:48:43 ilowhy [~ilowhy@183.83.53.180] has joined #lisp 19:49:32 davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:46 OK. got it. Thanx! 19:51:28 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:25 Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.85] has joined #lisp 19:53:11 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:55:13 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:56:02 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 19:56:04 AndroUser2 [~androirc@c-75-72-99-111.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:57 astoon [~astoon@109.188.242.25] has joined #lisp 19:59:20 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 20:04:03 bhyde1 [~Adium@c-66-30-115-134.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:27 apexi200sx [~bhicking@cpc2-salf4-0-0-cust701.10-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:50 -!- bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-115-134.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:11:26 maxigas [~user@dsl51B653B9.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 20:15:43 -!- mascotte [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-64-206.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 20:18:08 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl11-44-85.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:22:17 -!- ilowhy [~ilowhy@183.83.53.180] has quit [Quit: ilowhy] 20:23:45 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@cpc17-aztw23-2-0-cust59.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:51 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@cpc17-aztw23-2-0-cust59.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:23:51 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 20:24:02 bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 20:24:57 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:25:52 -!- apexi200sx [~bhicking@cpc2-salf4-0-0-cust701.10-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp 20:25:59 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:26:02 there was a feature i used to have in slime with which I could expand eg. des-bi to destructuring-bind. Is it still there? 20:26:18 and what's it called? 20:26:24 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@74.209.54.217] has joined #lisp 20:26:43 gabnet [~gabnet@16.195.197-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:56 Joreji [~thomas@90-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:31:30 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-79-223.xnet.hr] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 20:31:33 baggles: "Fuzzy completion" 20:31:49 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-79-223.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 20:32:27 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-79-223.xnet.hr] has quit [Client Quit] 20:32:51 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-79-223.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 20:33:16 -!- lirt [~lirt@88.205.169.42] has left #lisp 20:34:31 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:35:18 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-65-60.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 20:41:00 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-79-223.xnet.hr] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 20:41:18 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #lisp 20:41:20 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-79-223.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 20:42:31 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:42:35 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 20:45:21 -!- hugod__ [~hugod@76.66.181.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:43 hugod_ [~hugod@76.66.181.126] has joined #lisp 20:46:16 levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:50 Blkt [~Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-37-227-177.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:47:50 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl11-44-85.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:52 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.242.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:48:15 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl11-44-85.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:50:34 alama [~alama@a79-169-94-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 20:52:30 -!- tobik [~tobik@p549FF4A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:54:09 how do i find out from the repl which functions a package support after i required it? 20:54:23 in common lisp (sbcl) 20:54:35 can that be determined without requiring it? 20:54:37 thanks fe[nl]ix 20:54:52 maxigas: programmatically, using do-symbols 20:54:53 no 20:54:57 but after: 20:54:58 (defpackage foo :bar) (in-package foo) 20:55:07 and now i want to know what is in "bar" 20:55:09 maxigas: If you use slime, I suggest to inspect the package. 20:55:11 -!- pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:55:21 tcr1: i use slime 20:55:31 how do i inspect the package? 20:55:45 C-c I (find-package :bar) RET 20:57:34 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 20:57:45 freddy111 [~liza@150.140.231.85] has joined #lisp 20:58:11 The object is a SYMBOL... 20:58:33 bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-115-134.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:33 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:46 it's a nice little browser with slime-inspect 20:58:48 :) 20:59:20 yeah you can also group by kind of thing 20:59:29 so get a nice overview about functions, classes etc 21:00:26 -!- bhyde1 [~Adium@c-66-30-115-134.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00:33 jikanter [~a@66.146.192.42] has joined #lisp 21:01:35 tcr1: no, i think this is only telling me about the symbol "foo" but not the package, even if "foo" *is* a package, like i just tried with :cl-ppcre 21:02:01 I don't know what you're doing wrong 21:02:10 are you using slime-fancy? 21:02:23 i don't think so 21:03:14 ok, no i have internal-symbols as well 21:03:20 and external-symbols 21:03:48 Since I didn't want to maintain a list of exported symbols, I wrote a utility (export-section ...) which exports new functions and classes created therein. Doesn't everyone do this? How can you stand the grudgework of maintaining a symbol list? 21:04:16 That's manual labor which should be automated. 21:04:32 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-167-224.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:17 some do. See hungariancl:def 21:05:57 gonzojive [~red@171.66.89.199] has joined #lisp 21:06:01 hu.dwim.def, that is. 21:06:26 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-165-153.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:06:27 chopwood: almost nobody does that. maintaining a symbol list is a good way to document the package 21:06:31 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:07:39 *|3b|`* uses C-c x in slime to export things 21:07:54 fe[nl]ix: packaging is another matter. It's trivial to write the list for packaging purposes. 21:08:16 you're just automating that part. 21:08:29 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:09:15 chopwood: that's not what I meant by "package" 21:09:56 -!- |3b|` is now known as |3b| 21:10:42 freddie111 [~user@150.140.231.85] has joined #lisp 21:11:15 ec2-user` [~ec2-user@ec2-50-16-101-220.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:25 how come that inside slime, i can do (defpackage :foo (:elephant)) (in-package :foo) (open-store '(:DBD "/db")) but it won't work if i load the same file from an sbcl in shell? 21:11:40 -!- freddy111 [~liza@150.140.231.85] has left #lisp 21:11:47 it throws "OPEN-STORE is undefined" 21:12:09 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-47-184.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:12:28 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-79-223.xnet.hr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:13:03 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@16.195.197-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:14:42 -!- bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:15:06 Ragnaroek [5b0c3edf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.12.62.223] has joined #lisp 21:15:13 ah, i got it. 21:15:27 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:29 fe[nl]ix: just because I used the verb "package" (I could have used "bundle") doesn't mean I didn't understand you. I know you're talking about a lisp package. I'm saying that when you want to release the code, you can make the symbol list automatically. 21:15:40 i issued the same command in another file without importing the reguired package. :) 21:16:23 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:24 chopwood: the export list is actually a very important part of system design, so I don't see how it can be considered drudge work. 21:17:59 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl11-44-85.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:18:21 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl11-44-85.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:20:23 pkhuong: I would rather add a defun inside an export section, rather than add a defun, run, get an error because I forgot to add the symbol, go back, add the symbol. 21:20:32 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 21:21:09 C-c x exports the symbol at point and adds it to your defpackage form in Slime 21:21:18 chopwood: so now you'll get errors for not properly closing your export section :P 21:21:54 mon_key: ? don't understand what you mean 21:22:20 chopwood: it also functions as documentation, which is very important if your package is meant to be USEd. 21:22:52 (my-exporting-wrapper (defun foo {...} ) (defun bar {...} ) ;;; 300 lines later and forget to close m-e-w 21:22:53 In that case, the export list is as much part of the interface as whether that symbol is fbound or not. 21:23:18 pkhuong: earlier I was talking about making the list when you release the code. did you misunderstand that? 21:23:32 panike [~nwp@cedric.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 21:23:37 also note M-x slime-export-class, which does the same thing as C-c x, but for symbols defined by a class or a structure 21:23:48 chopwood: it still shouldn't be automatic. 21:23:57 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 21:24:08 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 21:24:13 again, because the export list is an essential part of system design. 21:24:14 tcr: stassats: were you guys able to incorporate my patch to slime for export? 21:24:15 stassats: Finally an argument against defclass* 21:24:21 Do you also not take care to declare functions static in C? 21:25:03 Phillip [~Phillip@c-75-72-99-111.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:20 tcr1: besides unnecessary namespace pollution and 'missing the point'? 21:25:38 mon_key: which patch? 21:25:42 astoon [~astoon@109.188.238.3] has joined #lisp 21:25:44 -!- panike [~nwp@cedric.cs.wisc.edu] has left #lisp 21:25:50 e.g. crica 2010/11/05 `slime-goto-next-export-clause' in contrib/slime-package-fu.el missing needlessly 21:26:22 i saw that email, but i didn't look any further 21:26:26 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:26:30 pkhuong: only defuns declared inside the export section are exported, so your analogy doesn't work. But to continue it, all defuns are "static" by default. 21:26:47 cbarrett [~cbarrett@adium/cbarrett] has joined #lisp 21:27:07 tcr1: better tools has always been an argument against defclass* 21:27:23 better tools like what? 21:27:27 like redshank's thingy for defining a class, i should really start using it 21:27:40 who runs paste.lisp.org? 21:27:49 -!- maxigas [~user@dsl51B653B9.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:17 i believe it belongs to chandler, but a few people have administrative access. 21:28:28 chopwood: indeed, and I consider that to be the right default. Adding symbols to the export list should require active thought, so, again, I don't consider that useless manual labour. 21:28:28 ( want to get in touch w/ someone about a deletion request -- I realize it's probably more urgent for me than it is for them 21:28:34 *I want 21:28:38 but I figured I would ask anyway. 21:28:40 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-79-223.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 21:28:50 tcr1: it lets you interactively define a class, which will later be inserted with all :initargs, :initforms etc. 21:29:22 stassats: it was a trivial fix. and without it slime-goto-next-export-clause is clumsy esp. when actively developing an export with commented symbols 21:29:40 Fade: know anyone who has access and might be around? 21:29:42 pkhuong: it is the right default, it only depends on how you implement it. You can maintain a list of symbols at the top of the file, or you can maintain an export section at the top. 21:29:51 mon_key: if you don't want it to be lost, you better file it at launchpad 21:29:57 nyef maybe 21:30:03 stassats: OK 21:30:14 maintaining an export section is one step per function. maintaining a symbol list is two steps per function. 21:30:18 nyef: ping? (re: lisppaste) 21:30:20 another point to take into account is that I regularly split my systems in two packages, one defining the external symbols, and another to attach definitions to these symbols. 21:31:03 since CL is a lisp-n, that's useful to avoid accidental leakage. 21:31:04 you could try to message chandler 21:31:18 Fade: alright, i'll give that a shot. Thanks for your help, I appreciate it. 21:31:22 i'm pretty sure chandler wrote the service. 21:31:25 pkhuong: Huh how? 21:31:34 mega1 [~user@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 21:31:42 yeah, I seem to recall that as well (I hang around #macdev, or well, used to, which is why I use it) 21:31:59 -!- ec2-user` [~ec2-user@ec2-50-16-101-220.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.2.3] 21:32:02 What? lisppaste? 21:32:33 tcr1: I define a package FOO that exports exactly the symbols I want, and FOO-IMPL (which doesn't USE FOO) is used to attach definitions. 21:32:46 cbarrett: What's up? 21:33:00 That way, I can have a function foo:bar, and a type foo-impl:bar, and not have to either export both at once or neither. 21:33:00 nyef: i got ahold of chandler -- i just needed something deleted 21:33:06 Ah, okay. 21:33:12 Hm just popping in my mind sbcl could probably signal a more severe style-warning when *package* is :foo and some function BAR:QUUX is redefined than just a redefinition 21:33:13 thank you though :) 21:33:28 tcr1: package lock? (: 21:33:30 I really appreciate lisppaste -- been a great service all these years. 21:33:34 tcr1: I suppose that's even more useful when your packages aren't meant to be USEd. 21:34:01 pkhuong: package locks as implemented by sbcl are too strict 21:34:09 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 21:34:12 tcr1: ahh (: 21:34:17 pkhuong: If I export a function FOO, I think people should still be allowed to define a type FOO 21:34:33 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 21:34:50 i wanted to use something like this, with several packages, and export things between them, and then only one package exporting things for public use 21:35:05 although I see that disallowing it helps against collisions among different systems 21:35:06 stassats: you can. 21:35:16 pkhuong: i know i can 21:35:27 maxigas [~user@dsl51B653B9.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 21:35:47 i meant "i wanted" in the sense "that would be good, but i'm lazy to do this right now" 21:36:21 gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:37:08 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:37:25 rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:38:21 gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:16 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:42 adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:35 stassats: ah. 21:41:58 thom_logn [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:05 -!- cbarrett [~cbarrett@adium/cbarrett] has left #lisp 21:45:34 Good morning everyone! 21:45:46 Hello beach. 21:45:52 Is there an historical reason that so many CL packages prefixed with "cl-"? It seems a bit redundant. 21:46:03 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:46:22 chopwood: debian, I think. 21:46:56 chopwood: lack of creativity. used to see the same thing for windows programs that used the newfangled winsock libraries, e.g. ws-irc. 21:46:58 it's not redundant for the name of the project 21:47:14 chopwood: or with gtk/gnome programs named gtk-foo or gnome-bar. 21:47:22 you can't name a CL mysql client "mysql", but you can name it "cl-mysql" 21:47:25 ws-ftp 21:47:34 py* 21:47:42 right, just like py*. 21:47:52 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl11-44-85.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:48:26 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl11-44-85.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:49:50 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:58 For the name of the distributed library, like cl-foo.tgz, I can understand the cl-. It just seems weird that, inside lisp, the cl- is there. It's not like it will accidentally run in scheme. 21:50:11 my proposal of using  as a prefix didn't gain any momentum 21:50:38 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:14 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:52:32 didn't gain any /m you mean? 21:53:17 (wait, what's that 1/m doing there? Silly me) 21:54:02 chopwood: the full name of the packages are COMMON-LISP and COMMON-LISP-USER. The -USER one is there so you can have a standard package in which to fiddle around without unintentally interning things in the COMMON-LISP package. 21:54:24 But you don't have to qualify COMMON-LISP symbols. 21:55:26 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-47-184.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:56:19 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:57:14 Xach: of course, that is basic stuff. I don't see the relevance to my point about the cl- prefix. 21:57:31 chopwood: Which "inside lisp" did you mean, then? 21:57:42 _danb_ [~user@124-171-12-242.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:59:05 Xach: I would have expected cl-foo.tgz to define a lisp package named foo. the cl- part is redundant as the actual package name. 21:59:45 in Ruby, you don't say "require 'ruby-foo'", "require 'ruby-bar'". 21:59:54 it's just require 'foo', require 'bar'. 22:00:15 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 22:00:27 (similarly for any other language convention besides lisp) 22:00:37 lisp is special 22:00:53 sometimes it's even special-needs (: 22:01:20 heh, I was just going to say -- special short-bus or special gifted? 22:01:40 and all of the time it's even dynamic, like special variables (: 22:01:43 -!- Ragnaroek [5b0c3edf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.12.62.223] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:02:02 chopwood: I find it a bit confusing when the archive is named cl-foo and it defines a system named foo and packages named foo. I'd prefer just foo all the way through, usually. 22:05:32 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:05:53 Inconsistent naming has resulted in quite a few support emails to me. 22:06:15 cl-btree's embedding of the version number in the system name was the most recent. 22:06:57 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 22:06:59 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.138.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:07:14 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.171] has joined #lisp 22:07:18 um. that is very special. 22:07:53 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:08:53 fuck the cl prefix, just give cool creative names to your projects 22:09:00 minion: cl-btree-0.9? 22:09:01 cl-btree-0.9: Release 0.9 of cl-btree. http://www.cliki.net/cl-btree-0.9 22:09:13 and there is a page on cliki for every release... 22:09:21 yes please. 22:09:23 drdo: easy for you to say 22:09:38 Yeah, like "oct"... 22:09:55 -!- rien [~rien_@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:10:04 i'd name my next project "Dec", for decimal floating point arithmetic 22:10:15 drdo: that's really my point. I understand the cl- for cl-gtk or whatever. But why on earth would someone use cl- for a new, uniquely-named, non-conflicting package. 22:10:18 stassats: No, no, completely unrelated names are best 22:10:30 chopwood: Well yes, for cl-gtk it's totally appropriate 22:11:23 stassats: Or common names that you can draw vague analogies from 22:12:10 cl-foo gives better searchability if foo is either an already established technical thing, or a normal english word 22:13:09 tcr1: googel can handle "foo +lisp" 22:13:45 it couldn't handle "+oct +lisp" 22:14:15 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl11-44-85.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 22:14:53 tcr1: Naming it cl- is spitting in the face of other people who might want to implement the same thing differently 22:15:12 why? 22:15:39 Think of it as an opportunity. 22:15:53 cl-couch, cl-couchdb, clouchdb. But Chillax stands out, and is clearly the best of them all! 22:15:55 pp206 [~pp206@sd-6391.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 22:16:32 drdo: The name is rarely an obstacle. 22:16:36 Had I written oct, I would have called it octopi. 22:16:37 how about clon, clon, and clon? 22:16:41 that's a nice searchable term 22:17:08 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:26 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-65-60.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:18:30 if I had tried to pluralise octopus, I would have chosen octopodes 22:18:47 isn't that the more generic term? 22:19:13 So a spider is an octopode? 22:19:21 ... "If I were you I'd call me us"? 22:19:26 ah, no, it's not 22:19:33 my tentacle-fu isn't up to par, it would seem 22:19:56 I might be wrong, but octopode feels like it should mean eight-legged 22:20:22 "octopod". Yes. Greek. 22:21:49 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:22:05 What do you call an octopus at the north pole and an octopus at the south pole? Octopode antipodes. 22:22:42 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 22:22:47 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-45-61.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:23:48 chopwood: Are you an octupus can survive such cold temperatures? 22:23:53 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:53 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:12 acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 22:24:23 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:24:42 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@74.209.54.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:44 Just give them hot water bottles. 22:25:11 Also, octopi is approximately 25.1327412. 22:25:20 And, enough silliness from me. :-( 22:25:24 what determines which packages can be found if i fire up sbcl and do (find-package 'foo) ? 22:25:33 -!- bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-115-134.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:26:36 sbcl determines it? 22:27:08 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-45-61.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:06 maxigas: if there's a package definition for it, then the lisp will return that package; if there isn't, you should get nil. 22:28:07 ah, i think .sbclrc runs each time 22:28:13 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:15 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-120-221.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:28:21 try with and without --no-userinit --no-siteinit 22:28:46 antifuchs: the question is where lisp looks for package definitions! :) 22:28:52 maxigas: nowhere. 22:28:56 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-165-32.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:29:00 packages are created using defpackage or make-package 22:29:17 maxigas: they're namespace things only, so there's no search path. 22:29:39 "nowhere" isn't accurae: it looks in the image whether there's a package with that naem 22:29:42 Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.85] has joined #lisp 22:29:46 maxigas: Are you confusing packages and asdf systems? 22:29:49 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-15-149.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:30:07 wow. "accurate" and "name". need sleep 22:30:26 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:30:48 -!- hun [~user@91-65-90-50-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:39 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.85] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:31:45 drdo: i think i am not. :) 22:31:58 i realised sbcl runs ~/.sbcl each time it is fired up 22:32:15 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:24 drdo: (find-package :foo) has nothing to with asdf, it is defined in the Common Lisp spec. i am trying to use find-package now. actually, i am trying to use it to find asdf itself. :) 22:33:37 thom_ [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:51 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:33:58 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:34:37 maxigas: ah. if you're not loading quicklisp on startup, asdf won't be in the image - it's a contrib. (require :asdf) will load it in. 22:34:41 maxigas: Fair enough, i just found your "where does sbcl look for packages?" question might indicate that you were confusing them 22:35:35 drdo: thanks 22:36:10 but i still don't know how to tell lisp where i keep my packages(, including asdf). 22:36:26 -!- thom_logn [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:36:34 <_3b> you don't 'keep' packages, they are a purely runtime construct 22:36:45 maxigas: (require :asdf) will load the asdf contrib. this also defines the asdf package. 22:37:01 hm 22:37:27 <_3b> usually you load an asdf system which creates one or more packages 22:37:31 Seems like i wasn't very far from the truth when i thought you were confusing the concepts :) 22:37:44 <_3b> sometimes you LOAD a file which creates them, or maybe require a module which creates them 22:38:14 OK, i am putting an app from my local machine to my server. locally, i can fire up sbcl, and (find-package) => # 22:38:38 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:38:56 on the server, however, i start sbcl, and (find-package :sbcl) => NIL 22:39:05 bhyde [~Adium@50.10.201.28] has joined #lisp 22:39:05 i am trying to find out the difference. 22:39:18 <_3b> then either you have a custom image on the local machine, or startup files that load asdf 22:39:29 basically, both machines have the same versions of the same files on them. 22:39:52 -!- bhyde [~Adium@50.10.201.28] has quit [Client Quit] 22:40:56 ~/.sbclrc doesn't exist, neither on server or on local machine. sbcl versions are the same, downloaded from the same source. 22:41:16 no 22:41:22 sbcl versions actually differ 22:41:22 bhyde [~Adium@50.10.201.28] has joined #lisp 22:41:48 local is SBCL 1.0.40.0.debian remote is SBCL 1.0.39 22:42:01 hm 22:42:06 <_3b> ah, debian junk is probably loading it for you 22:42:15 :) 22:42:37 now the only question is where is that debian junk. .) 22:43:08 <_3b> in /etc somewhere probably 22:43:11 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 22:43:43 <_3b> easiest to just purge all the debian CL stuff, and install an sbcl binary from sbcl.org 22:44:09 how small can lisp compile to? what was the smallest sbcl exec? 22:44:18 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-25-180.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:44:22 <_3b> or not worry about it, and install asdf on the server to match 22:44:51 <_3b> fantazo: depends on the implementation, sbcl 30-40 MB, clisp is a few MB, ccl in between 22:45:10 <_3b> any of them can get pretty big when you load a bunch of code though 22:45:15 fantazo: there are CL implementations that are optimised to be small. 22:45:36 fantazo: also you can use scheme if you want a small lisp for simple things. 22:47:24 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:47:35 DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:06 so how do i load asdf from sbcl? 22:48:19 (require :asdf) ; for the third time. 22:49:09 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:49:13 -!- csamuelson [~csamuelso@173-14-110-121-nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:01 I guess the quiet big size (well small compared to other things like java), results from basically linking statically the functionality ("runtime libraries") 22:50:58 <_3b> right 22:51:01 OK, i get it. 22:51:32 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-115.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:52:04 and it worked like this: $ echo '(require :asdf)' > ~/.bscl ; sbcl 22:52:50 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:52:53 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.238.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:08 In an alternate timeline of the 20th century, do you think it's possible that sexps could have dominated programming? Imagine even HTML and javascript replaced with sexps. Or do you think the present, retarded state of affairs was inevitable. 22:55:12 -!- milanj [~milanj_@77-46-249-102.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:55:13 definitely. 22:55:26 how are functions whose *standard-output* is captured debugged? 22:55:31 offmar [~offmar@41.141.119.102] has joined #lisp 22:55:37 -!- offmar [~offmar@41.141.119.102] has left #lisp 22:55:50 RaceCondition: you could print to another stream (: 22:55:54 or use (break) and stuff 22:56:11 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755034.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:33 -!- bhyde [~Adium@50.10.201.28] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:56:36 I heard one argument pro xml is that its structure allows for "automatic" closing of blocks, so some kind of error detection. if that's true, that would actually be better than sexp. 22:56:38 hmm, I see... I don't really like capturing stdout, but that's what Land of Lisp is doing 22:56:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:56:59 <_3b> clhs *debug-io* 22:56:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_debug_.htm 22:57:28 cool 22:58:12 Automatically closing sexps is even easier than XML tags :) 22:58:38 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4A43.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:55 astalla, indeed, we see that in parenscript 22:58:55 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:59:13 and doing it right (i.e. closing them with the "correct" semantics) is hard/impossible in both cases 22:59:29 banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.154.61] has joined #lisp 22:59:35 hey 22:59:58 hello banisterfiend 23:00:13 can someone tell me a common use for foldr? i think i know how to use foldl, but im just confused as to the utility of foldr 23:00:13 bhyde [~Adium@50.10.201.28] has joined #lisp 23:00:22 fantazo: what do you see in parenscript? I don't get it 23:00:33 banisterfiend: Those are not Common Lisp functions. 23:00:52 *nyef* would use foldr to hold sheets of paper. 23:01:28 beach: what are they called in common lisp? reduce/inject ? 23:01:46 reduce. 23:02:10 reduce accepts a :from-end that lets you go the other way. 23:02:58 banisterfiend: If you mean "I haven't seen any use for :from-end t with reduce", then my answer is that I use it with #'append to avoid quadratic behavior. 23:03:35 beach: can you explain a bit further pls ? :) 23:04:37 chopwood: probably soon enough we'd have computers powerful enough to simulate alternate timelines. You could try to imagine what it would have taken to make sexp-based languages predominant. 23:04:39 banisterfiend: If you don't use :from-end t, you are going to end up copying a quadratic number of cells, because append copies all of its arguments except the last. If you do :from-end t, then you only copy each list once. 23:05:13 Perhaps you could use LIST* to avoid copying even. 23:05:28 or side effects. 23:06:43 pjb: That's too late if you already have a list of lists to append, isn't it? 23:07:17 Yes. It would be used if you are building the lists. If you can pass the tail, and and use LIST* instead of LIST, it's good. 23:07:23 banisterfiend: and don't worry, I won't rat you out on the ruby channels for being here 23:08:04 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:08:10 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.89.199] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 23:08:12 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:08:20 and the exchange between beach and pjb shows how foldr can be useful: it lets you substitute calls to a constructor (cons) with another one (append) ex post facto. 23:08:26 -!- Phillip [~Phillip@c-75-72-99-111.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:08:26 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:34 Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.250] has joined #lisp 23:08:53 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe5ddc00-120.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 23:09:10 -!- jikanter [~a@66.146.192.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:09:13 Shouldn't this produce a STYLE-WARNING about unused variable test? (let (test) (setf test t)) 23:09:19 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:31 Hexstream: it's used. 23:09:38 It may be useless, but it's used. 23:10:09 What about (let (test) (setf test t) nil)? 23:10:18 -!- Landr [~vser@78-22-154-231.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:43 same. 23:10:45 <_3b> unused variable warning is about the source, not the final code 23:10:53 I guess "Is it used?" is on the same order as: "If a tree falls in the forest..." 23:11:36 -!- bhyde [~Adium@50.10.201.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:51 bhyde [~Adium@50.10.201.28] has joined #lisp 23:12:16 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:12:25 An optimizer could figure it out, in principle, I suppose. 23:12:33 banisterfiend: I did a little experiment. When reduce #'append is called on a list of length 1000 each element of which is another list of length 1000, it takes around 30s without :from-end t and 0.1s with :from-end t. 23:12:51 chopwood: most will. But the optimizer isn't answering the same question. 23:13:32 <_3b> optimizer probably got rid of the variable too, so nothing for it to complain about :) 23:13:34 banisterfiend: Did you faint from information overload? 23:13:43 -!- bhyde [~Adium@50.10.201.28] has quit [Client Quit] 23:13:51 afternoon 23:13:58 Hey slyrus 23:14:32 -!- astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-78-12-79-14.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 23:15:05 hey beach, still working on the affine xfrm stuff... 23:15:28 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.154.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:35 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-25-180.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16:36 slyrus: Excellent! 23:17:00 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:23 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:18:29 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-165-32.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:35 timor [~timor@port-92-195-192-68.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:19:36 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-94-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 23:19:55 jikanter [~a@66.146.192.42] has joined #lisp 23:20:04 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:34 beach: I don't understand why :from-end t is so much faster. I would expect going from the left on lists to be faster... 23:21:18 -!- jikanter [~a@66.146.192.42] has quit [Client Quit] 23:21:19 alama [~alama@a79-169-94-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 23:21:20 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:21:38 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:26 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:22:35 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-21-37.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:23:27 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:45 eh, nevermind. I think I get it. 23:23:58 sykopomp: you may replace append by my-append and trace it. 23:24:12 (or just trace append, but it's implementation dependent whether it works). 23:27:01 rvirding [~chatzilla@109.58.16.148.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 23:27:04 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-21-37.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:27:24 bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:31 pnq [~nick@ACA26516.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:28:59 |nix| [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:02 -!- AndroUser2 [~androirc@c-75-72-99-111.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:35:58 -!- silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:15 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 23:38:50 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-188-112.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:12 aww damn, the linux port of open genera needs an x64 system 23:39:38 *mathrick* is disappointed 23:40:17 mathrick: it's because it's rather direct adaptation of original source, which was written using a lisp macroassembler for Alpha 23:40:40 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-109.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:40:46 yeah, I know, but it doesn't make my system any less 32-bit 23:40:50 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:41:05 guess I'll have to wait until I have money to shell out for the new laptop 23:41:17 I plan that one to have enough RAM to be sensibly 64-bit :) 23:41:41 mathrick: I switched for the extra registers :P 23:42:53 I don't care about extra registers so much as I do about being constantly starved for memory 23:43:03 making the code 64-bit wouldn't help me with that 23:43:58 true 23:44:21 *p_l|backup* needs to get more RAM as well, though it's mainly due to three big offenders... Firefox, Eclipse, Chrome 23:44:26 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 23:48:45 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 23:51:55 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:54:22 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:25 gonzojive [~red@171.66.82.5] has joined #lisp 23:56:34 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:23 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@2620:0:e50:1018:5ab0:35ff:fef2:43c5] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:58:35 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:59:08 -!- freddie111 [~user@150.140.231.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]