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I connect to stumpwm with slime, but the repl doesn't display the standard error. How can I do to see it? 00:59:00 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:08 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:02:41 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:05:28 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-158-232.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 01:08:26 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:28 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.226] has joined #lisp 01:14:44 kruft [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:13 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:16:23 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B5A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:22:09 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-110.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:22:31 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:23:13 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:22 basimple [~user@203.246.179.172] has joined #lisp 01:39:00 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-117-158.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 01:41:58 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 01:43:37 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:46:51 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:49:31 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 01:52:39 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 01:55:51 -!- basimple [~user@203.246.179.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:56:08 basimple [~user@203.246.179.172] has joined #lisp 02:04:12 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: brb, mac update, etc] 02:04:54 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:09:54 ale`: perhaps something like (setf *error-output* *standard-output*) would help? 02:18:07 coldnew [~coldnew@111-255-13-241.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:48 pjb: strictly speaking, I'm pretty sure that you should bind it to a synonym stream. 02:25:13 -!- coldnew [~coldnew@111-255-13-241.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:26:06 coldnew [~coldnew@111-255-13-241.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:48 pjb: found out it was being redirected to .xsession-errors, tail -f is enough :-) 02:28:58 (i tried what you suggested but doesn't work :( ) 02:29:05 -!- coldnew [~coldnew@111-255-13-241.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:29:15 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:39 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-40-157-206.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:30:43 coldnew [~coldnew@111-255-13-241.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:24 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night!] 02:36:20 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:36:40 -!- Sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:49 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:41:13 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 02:47:11 -!- coldnew [~coldnew@111-255-13-241.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:20 -!- sm` [s@46.217.32.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:49:14 pnq [~nick@ACA2EA9F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:50:25 CrazyEddy [~closemout@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 02:52:26 sm` [s@46.217.44.241] has joined #lisp 02:52:30 -!- RazWelles [~Intertric@c-65-34-236-148.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:53:26 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:53:56 -!- basimple [~user@203.246.179.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:45 krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:57:15 |3b|` [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:59:35 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:01:14 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:01:49 -!- NihilistDandy [~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:19 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.22] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:03:04 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:07:16 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 03:07:38 -!- lurker-x [~androirc@c-75-72-99-111.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:08:38 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:14:36 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 03:14:37 rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 03:16:57 huangho [~vitor@201-40-157-206.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 03:18:08 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:19:53 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:22:40 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:09 is there a way to get the window class hints with clx? 03:30:06 adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:25 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hhsmcsgztqewhyum] has joined #lisp 03:32:33 ale`: Get, or set? 03:32:52 (Something so fundamental, there's probably an "easy" way and a "hard" way.) 03:33:35 nyef: get is more interesting at the moment :) 03:33:40 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 03:34:18 -!- panike [~nwp@ppp-70-226-173-118.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 03:36:17 ... It's not GET-WM-CLASS, is it? 03:37:01 (Cleverly listed, along with SET-WM-CLASS, SET-WM-PROPERTIES, and SET-WM-RESOURCES, among other things, in the "Undocumented" section of the manual.) 03:37:26 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:38:16 There's also WM-HINTS and WM-NORMAL-HINTS, functions, which may or may not be accessors. 03:38:33 I'm somehow underwhelmed, and may do something about this section of the manual at some point. 03:40:09 Worst comes to worst, pull the appropriate properties and decode them yourself. 03:43:00 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:44:08 nyef: it's the first one, thanks. I didn't notice it in the manual.. And I was even looking to the undocumented section! 03:47:38 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-40-157-206.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:48:57 coldnew [~coldnew@111-255-13-12.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:03 SidH_ [c0a314e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.163.20.232] has joined #lisp 04:00:44 wakeup_ [~max@p5DE8E1EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:27 -!- krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 04:02:44 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 04:03:59 -!- wakeup [~max@p5DE8EE1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:04:35 -!- azaq231 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:04:35 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.80.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:03 lemoinem [~swoog@110-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:24 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:31 pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 04:07:14 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-64-51.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:07:31 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:10:50 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:12:07 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:28 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:13:17 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 04:13:42 cerebral_monkey [~berkley@c-69-243-225-248.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:24 -!- coldnew [~coldnew@111-255-13-12.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:20:08 -!- whee [~whee@smaertness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:25:48 -!- illuminati1113 [~user@pool-71-114-7-169.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:26:17 illuminati1113 [~user@pool-71-114-7-169.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:43 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:30:53 cerebral_monkey_ [~berkley@c-69-243-225-248.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:22 -!- orivej [~orivej@95-24-190-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:33:14 -!- cerebral_monkey [~berkley@c-69-243-225-248.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:42:47 -!- cerebral_monkey_ [~berkley@c-69-243-225-248.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:45:11 slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 04:51:19 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:58:24 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:00:06 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:50 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:01:15 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 05:02:44 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:04:14 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 05:04:58 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 05:12:51 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:16:27 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 05:20:14 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 05:21:32 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:23:33 slyrus: around? 05:32:02 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 05:36:16 orivej [~orivej@95-24-190-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:38:31 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:40:41 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:41:37 strlen [~alex@behemoth.strlen.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:56 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 05:44:21 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 05:51:29 Vichfret [~Vicfred@201.102.83.121] has joined #lisp 05:52:45 astoon [~astoon@109.188.224.181] has joined #lisp 05:54:35 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.119.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:58:08 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 06:04:04 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@187.112.160.90] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 06:04:45 adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:10 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:17 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-23.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:05:50 -!- jleija [~jleija@c-98-199-38-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 06:06:05 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:08:31 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 06:08:58 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:10:59 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.224.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:14:43 Vic [~Vicfred@189.143.82.68] has joined #lisp 06:15:08 -!- Vic is now known as Guest59597 06:16:48 -!- Vichfret [~Vicfred@201.102.83.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:19:11 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:48 timor [~timor@port-92-195-51-107.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 06:23:15 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:25:04 -!- illuminati1113 [~user@pool-71-114-7-169.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25:15 -!- sm` [s@46.217.44.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:25:19 -!- rolando [~user@107.255.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has left #lisp 06:25:44 illuminati1113 [~user@pool-71-114-7-169.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:10 -!- Guest59597 [~Vicfred@189.143.82.68] has quit [Quit: ] 06:34:26 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-23.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:36:48 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-51-107.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:37:40 hey beach 06:37:56 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fxjalfaxzzmltmot] has joined #lisp 06:38:31 and evening everyone 06:40:35 slyrus: How much of cl-vectors do you intend to use for the draing part? 06:41:15 M-sprite [~M-sprite@218.74.180.190] has joined #lisp 06:41:52 hadn't really thought about yet, other than that I thought leveraging it would be a good thing and making the design of opticl such that that was fairly straightforward was also a good thing 06:42:09 but I haven't looked at cl-vectors since some initial inspiration a few days ago 06:42:28 did you take a look at my recent changes? 06:42:43 png writing is still messed up 06:42:50 working on it... 06:43:06 I mostly looked at the shapes thing, and got worried that you were planning to rewrite cl-vectors. 06:45:12 I think if I were you (though, I admit not having thought it through completely) I would concentrate on image composition and leave the shapes to cl-vectors. 06:45:58 masonium [48d3cd04@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.211.205.4] has joined #lisp 06:46:22 I had a bunch of shape drawing from ch-image, and i wanted to make sure that things basically "worked". 06:47:59 That's fine, but in this age of Quicklisp, it might again be wise to factor out the shapes things to cl-vectors. 06:50:44 -!- CyanDynamo [~Steven@71-208-210-104.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:56:10 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 07:01:55 Quicklisp... I have mixed feelings about it, but I'm glad it reversed the tide of people rewriting stuff because they feared dependencies. 07:03:18 astoon [~astoon@109.188.224.167] has joined #lisp 07:05:39 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:06:22 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:14 Joreji [~thomas@79-126.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:07:52 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2EA9F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:07:52 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:09:03 beach: the new pixel stuff ended up being both much simpler and faster in the end. I updated the README to reflect the new approach. 07:09:49 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 07:11:14 -!- orivej [~orivej@95-24-190-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:11:56 -!- jso [~user@wsip-70-164-99-62.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:12:17 *beach* is reading... 07:12:46 just the code in the README (and the timing :) ) 07:14:06 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:03 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 07:16:16 Ah, OK. 07:19:17 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-66-206-178.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:19:38 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:20:08 cmm [~cmm@109.66.206.178] has joined #lisp 07:34:51 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 07:36:10 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@80.64.176.30] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:38:50 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:38:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:38:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:39:29 Krystof [~csr21@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:40:04 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-40.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:41:05 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-145.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:44:25 -!- pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:45:00 nostoi [~nostoi@140.Red-79-150-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:01 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:45:14 good morning 07:45:22 hello mvilleneuve 07:45:33 mvilleneuve: Did you see the recent works of slyrus? 07:46:22 howdy mvilleneuve 07:46:32 ah, there we go. fixed PNG writing. 07:47:57 hello beach, hello slyrus 07:48:22 beach: no, what is it about? 07:48:39 sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 07:48:53 mvilleneuve: I'll let slyrus explain :) 07:50:29 mvilleneuve: https://github.com/slyrus/opticl 07:50:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-126.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:51:02 a new image library, or perhaps an image library substrate, designed to be relatively lightweight, but high performance 07:51:39 non-consing pixel getting/setting 07:52:15 pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 07:52:21 basically using CL arrays and the type system to get decent performance while basically chucking out all of the OO/MOP stuff I did for ch-image/clem/etc... 07:53:11 there's not a lot there yet, but the core pixel setting/getting stuff seems to work, at least on SBCL, thanks to some helpful advice from beach 07:53:15 and krystof 07:53:23 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:53:24 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:53:24 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:53:43 jpeg, tiff and png I/O and some simple drawing primitives 07:53:55 I'm going to port over my affine transformation stuff from ch-image soon 07:54:59 slyrus: it looks greats! 07:55:08 thanks! 07:57:13 slyrus: that looks cool 07:58:34 mvilleneuve: slyrus was thinking that this might facilitate a merge with imago :) 07:58:39 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 07:59:10 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hhsmcsgztqewhyum] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:02:18 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xntnknqztwwalero] has joined #lisp 08:02:56 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:04 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@140.Red-79-150-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:05:45 beach: is there any reason to keep anything from imago? It doesn't do much more than opticl... 08:06:10 mvilleneuve: I don't know. I was hoping you two would figure it out. I haven't looked at imago for some time. 08:07:30 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ocrvfsmjrzrfdxpb] has joined #lisp 08:08:02 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:09:03 -!- hramrach__ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:05 mvilleneuve: imago has a nice API and a rich set of functionality for doing things with images, opticl is pretty bare bones at this point. 08:12:19 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.224.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:22 hramrach__ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 08:12:25 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:39 i'd like to be convinced that those bones are solid and then start adding more stuff on top of it -- i've been cherry picking some things from ch-image 08:12:50 if you're open to it, we could do so with imago as well 08:14:27 Joreji [~thomas@64-251.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:15:13 slyrus: sure, I'll take a look at imago and see if some things are worth considering 08:15:26 great 08:16:29 slyrus: very nice library name, by the way :) 08:18:26 thanks :) it took a moment, but then it was obvious after "chemicl" -- on which I need to get back to work... 08:19:34 orivej [~orivej@95-24-190-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:20:42 a5h15h [~a5h15h@59.95.8.48] has joined #lisp 08:20:50 -!- a5h15h [~a5h15h@59.95.8.48] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:21:03 yeah the name is very pleasant ... but so is imago 08:22:41 clearmoments [~dre@c-24-127-253-17.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:50 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@218.74.180.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:23:40 a5h15h [~a5h15h@59.95.8.48] has joined #lisp 08:23:54 -!- NihilistDandy [~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24:01 -!- a5h15h [~a5h15h@59.95.8.48] has quit [Changing host] 08:24:01 a5h15h [~a5h15h@unaffiliated/a5h15h] has joined #lisp 08:24:20 whee [~whee@misplaced.smaertness.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:20 yes, i agree 08:25:11 M-sprite [~M-sprite@122.237.32.107] has joined #lisp 08:25:14 -!- a5h15h [~a5h15h@unaffiliated/a5h15h] has quit [Client Quit] 08:25:50 a5h15h [~a5h15h@59.95.8.48] has joined #lisp 08:26:22 -!- a5h15h [~a5h15h@59.95.8.48] has quit [Changing host] 08:26:22 a5h15h [~a5h15h@unaffiliated/a5h15h] has joined #lisp 08:26:24 slash_ [~unknown@pD955BB4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:16 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:27:45 -!- a5h15h [~a5h15h@unaffiliated/a5h15h] has left #lisp 08:28:16 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:28:50 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xntnknqztwwalero] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:29:30 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:30:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.63.52] has joined #lisp 08:32:26 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:02 -!- mcguitan83 [~paolo@negroni.enst.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:33:35 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kiusaigyaalvdjrg] has joined #lisp 08:34:33 If I have an indented string that is longer than 80 characters (and yes, I care) would I go about using concatenate or is there a better way? 08:35:08 mcguitan83 [~user@2001:660:330f:a4:219:d1ff:fe7d:3bfe] has joined #lisp 08:35:23 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:59 snearch [~snearch@f053007038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:44:46 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:48:44 MoALTz [~no@92.23.16.75] has joined #lisp 08:49:56 z0d [~z0d@artifact.hu] has joined #lisp 08:49:56 -!- z0d [~z0d@artifact.hu] has quit [Changing host] 08:49:56 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 08:51:17 daniel [~daniel@p5082BF52.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:21 hey, wow, gsharp git actually works for someone who's not me! 08:52:21 amb007 [~a_bakic@87.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:47 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B327BE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:55:44 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-67-199.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:58:00 mega1_ [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 08:58:17 jtza8: format and ~newline 08:59:31 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:59:49 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-85-139.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:00:03 clhs 22.3.9.3 09:00:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cic.htm 09:00:05 astoon [~astoon@109.188.224.173] has joined #lisp 09:00:50 -!- kruft [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:03:00 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:04:39 Thanks jdz. 09:05:40 -!- orivej [~orivej@95-24-190-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:07:56 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-133-236.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:08:00 My code will look a lot better now, thanks again. :) 09:10:02 -!- Krystof [~csr21@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:10:48 orivej [~orivej@95-24-190-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:11:53 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:14:12 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:14:30 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 09:15:15 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:19 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:16:20 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:18:01 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:52 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:22:00 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:24:15 Marcux [~Adium@189.121.111.41] has joined #lisp 09:25:13 splittist [~IceChat77@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:25:19 morning 09:25:27 hi 09:26:13 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 09:26:15 hello splittist 09:26:51 minion: memo for Krystof: yes, I wanted to test that. 09:26:51 Remembered. I'll tell Krystof when he/she/it next speaks. 09:29:25 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:21 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-43-72.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 09:40:41 prljavi_hari pasted "quasiquoting" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119435 09:42:15 What is quasiquoting ? I have an example here http://paste.lisp.org/+2K5N 09:43:09 <|nix|`> morning 09:45:40 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:46:41 prljavi_hari: you're doing it. Just do it some more. 09:47:12 prljavi_hari: and the repl is perfect for trying this stuff out. 09:48:14 -!- sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:48:23 ok 09:48:34 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:49:27 If you type `(list ,@(if t (list 'foo 'bar)) ,@(if t (list 'baz 'quux))) at the repl (a) what do you think you'll get and (b) what do you actually get? 09:49:58 *splittist* notes that 'quux' but not 'quasiquote' is in the CLHS index. 09:51:49 "quasiquote" is Scheme terminology as I recall. 09:52:04 I'm just going to repl to try it out. I don't know 09:52:50 beach: makes sense. haskell seems to have picked it up, too. 09:54:04 what's it called in lisp then ? 09:54:13 backquote 09:54:24 ok 09:54:25 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757887.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:50 -!- clearmoments [~dre@c-24-127-253-17.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bbl] 09:55:52 A good, solid, workmanlike name for a tool, not some fancypants pseudoscience term cobbled together out of ancient languages and a vague penumbra of mathematical rigor. 09:56:19 :) 10:00:04 I got this quasiquoting term as a reply on some mailing list. He could just say backquote 10:01:14 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:01:37 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 10:03:54 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-158-232.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 10:04:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:05:47 -!- mega1_ [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 10:09:13 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:25 -!- Marcux [~Adium@189.121.111.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:19:04 jamief [~user@158.223.51.80] has joined #lisp 10:19:30 beach` [~user@116.118.72.94] has joined #lisp 10:20:02 krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has joined #lisp 10:20:35 billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:20:46 mega1_ [~mega1@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 10:20:50 Marcux [~Adium@189.121.111.41] has joined #lisp 10:20:54 -!- beach [~user@116.118.2.121] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:21:00 -!- beach` is now known as beach 10:22:45 -!- mega1_ [~mega1@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 10:23:49 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:17 -!- Marcux [~Adium@189.121.111.41] has left #lisp 10:27:08 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.224.173] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:39 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-30-66.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:29:03 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955BB4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34:34 Hey moore33! 10:35:20 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 10:35:25 join #emacs 10:35:35 Oops! 10:35:43 On the contrary, I'll leave for the train station! 10:35:44 sorry :) 10:35:53 -!- splittist [~IceChat77@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: On the road again] 10:40:08 beach: Hey beach! 10:43:49 astoon [~astoon@109.188.224.173] has joined #lisp 10:44:03 moore33: I am trying to figure out how to clean up the "commands" chapter of CLIM II. 10:45:31 As I recall, it was incomplete on its own, i.e. not very useful without some additional stuff in McClim 10:45:53 moore33: I don't recall that. 10:46:10 moore33: It is pretty tangled as it is, though. Impossible to internationalize for instance. 10:46:26 I will have to take another look :) 10:47:00 moore33: It looks to me like the documentation for a command parmater is indeed usually specific to that command. 10:47:51 moore33: So I was thinking of specifying that (setf (documentation '(command-name parameter-name) 'clim-command-parameter) "...") would be the mechanism for that. 10:49:10 Now you're pushing the boundaries of my CL recollection... I forgot that (setf documentation) can take a generalized arguments :/ 10:50:22 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 10:51:39 moore33: (setf documentation) is unfortunately very little used. 10:52:05 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-43-72.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 10:53:19 moore33: I think I can keep things conforming while still allowing for internationalization. For instance, (setf documentation) can take into account the value of (say) *locale*. People who don't care wont' see any difference. 10:55:05 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:56:52 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 11:02:59 Actually, I would use the package system: (setf (documentation '( ) 'clim:command-parameter) "...") 11:06:04 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-110.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:18 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.224.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:50 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:11:13 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:17 _mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 11:12:00 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:12:10 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:13:24 Gromit [~bear@server00.klix.ch] has joined #lisp 11:13:32 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 11:14:01 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 11:18:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 11:19:10 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 11:21:08 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 11:21:11 -!- billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:23:17 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:25:02 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 11:25:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:27:54 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B779.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:57 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:31:44 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-110.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:32:01 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:32:06 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:32:15 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 11:34:53 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:35:27 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:50 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:37:15 -!- SidH_ [c0a314e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.163.20.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:37:50 -!- ale` [~user@109.255.54.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:56 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:57:01 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 11:57:17 Hello. 11:57:58 billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:59:57 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 12:02:23 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-110.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:36 setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.22] has joined #lisp 12:07:11 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.22] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:07:27 setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.22] has joined #lisp 12:10:20 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:45 astoon [~astoon@109.188.250.245] has joined #lisp 12:16:30 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:17:18 wubo_ [80f40907@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.244.9.7] has joined #lisp 12:19:00 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-110.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:20:17 -!- billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:22:58 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:23:45 huangho [~vitor@201-66-138-3.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 12:24:24 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:25:38 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.250.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:27:30 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757887.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:49 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kiusaigyaalvdjrg] has left #lisp 12:35:05 Younder [~john@224.13.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 12:35:55 astoon [~astoon@109.188.240.182] has joined #lisp 12:36:39 Been playing with cl-gtk2.. Using a c book foundations of GTK and translating (also wrote the C versions and rtanslated to PyGtk) 12:38:16 CL-GTK2 is by far the most productive use of your time. And there is plenty use for improvement. If anything needs the removal of boilerplate code windows programming is. 12:39:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:40:40 Old systems like CLIM just don't capture modern needs. Better to hack a better interface to GTK2. 12:40:42 -!- vandemar [cohen@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:41:01 tcr1 [~tcr@213.55.131.17] has joined #lisp 12:41:09 Why waste yur time with gtk when you have html5? :) 12:41:34 Old systems like gtk just don't capture modern needs. 12:41:37 I use the WebKit also. 12:41:44 The length of time required to set it up on windows is bit of a pain..compiling gtk from scratch takes a non-trivial amount of time.. 12:42:43 screw gtk, use Qt 12:43:31 Simply put may idea is to wrap WebKit in a Gnome interface. And the us HTML and MathML to format the code. 12:43:56 What a terrible idea -- it doesn't address modern needs. 12:44:05 Modern people need to run things in browsers. 12:44:16 Zhivago, and what are modern needs ? 12:44:26 About time you started thinking about that. 12:45:10 Maslow's pyramid? 12:45:15 Zhivago, I have a number of web applications behind me. (like a bugtracker system) 12:45:47 Younder: Probably the most significant modern need is "will it run on my telephone?" 12:46:01 Followed shortly by "will it run on my television?" 12:46:19 Followed shortly by "will it run on my cloud provider?" 12:46:35 I don't see gtk handling any of that. 12:46:55 But if "modern needs" just means "whatever I happen to like today", then gtk might well do. 12:47:14 bbiab 12:47:20 Not if your ambition is a language to better utilize the speed of supercomputers and the peoples resources used to make such a program. 12:47:25 Zhivago: not sure anyone really cares about running on the TV just yet 12:48:24 OpenGL is massively portable. Write a gui in lisp that renders to an OpenGL framebuffer...and you can get that on just about anything..and it's massively more extendable/debuggable 'cos its lisp. 12:48:28 there are different modern needs, one is desktop software, another is consumer applications 12:48:31 so we come back to mcclim. funny, that. 12:48:31 rsynnott, you would be wrong about that. Many computer illiterate people would love to read mel off their TV and browse the internet. 12:48:34 there is no need conflate them 12:48:43 s/mel/mail/ 12:50:00 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:37 Younder: they might love you, but there's no mainstream consumer-friendly way to do that right now 12:50:51 *love to 12:51:16 rsynnott: Seen GoogleTV? 12:51:47 I agree cloud computing has a future. I'd love to hold my mobile up to a wall of hieroglyphs and have my mobile connect to a service that translated it into English. 12:51:50 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:24 ZabaQ: Have you seen the Google TV remote? 12:52:27 ZabaQ: not really a consumer product yet 12:52:42 it probably will be eventually, but, IMO, best to worry about that if and when it happens 12:52:54 rsynnott, Actually there are a couple of products out there. 12:54:05 what is the actual suggestion that we do about TVs? There's no common interface or anything. What's the point? 12:54:06 They are not yet mainstream.. 12:54:38 who's telling us we need to plan for TVs in our code? how absurd. 12:54:39 -!- zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:56 Have you seen a Apple lately. The whole Computer is in the monitor. 12:55:01 hi 12:55:11 Younder: yes in the icons 12:55:15 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.240.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:55:28 (iMac) That is the future TV 12:56:05 Younder: yes but you can't do "rm program" to remove tv programs you don't like! 12:56:21 Remote keyboard and mouse by blue-tooth. 12:56:57 astoon [~astoon@109.188.240.182] has joined #lisp 12:57:50 Posterdati, No, but your computer will know what you like (Bayesian Stats) and then select appropriate programs from the cloud database. 12:57:57 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:58:20 Younder: it is simple, not Bayesian nets needed. I watch only pornos 12:58:53 whatever 12:59:39 No. The iMac isn't the future TV. 12:59:56 Nothing apple is the future, because apple doesn't subscribe to the lowest common denominator. 13:00:01 and my kid is already browsing internet on the TV (using Wii) 13:00:51 That appears to be what android does, and we have tv's running android entering the consumer market shortly. 13:00:56 I already know web programming. And I guess no-one wants to discuss CL-GTK2 so I guess I'll find a mode productive use of my time. 13:01:41 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-162-24.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:01:50 Younder: cl-gtk2 is probably fine as long as you don't care about supporting MacOS 13:01:52 Apple does well off the rich, leading edge -- but that's not what determines where the masses go. 13:02:09 (GTK++ remains very, very bad on MacOS) 13:03:15 -!- katesmith is now known as kittehsmith 13:04:16 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@122.237.32.107] has quit [Quit: I need to code or sleep now .] 13:05:01 Zhivago: mac are expensive PCs they are not affordable nor better than a normal PC 13:05:16 should we really discuss this in #lisp? 13:05:25 stassats: no 13:05:58 zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:06:26 IMO, the lowest-impedence method of doing UIs with CL is CCL with Cocoa bridge 13:06:31 but that's essentially mac-only 13:06:54 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:03 stassats: I'm interested in Lisp machines... :) 13:09:27 Core i7 is a good Lisp machine 13:10:02 stassats: What makes you say that? 13:10:30 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:40 reality? 13:10:54 *ZabaQ* sighs 13:11:02 true 13:11:08 Raykon [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has joined #lisp 13:16:15 tfb [~tfb@92.41.74.188.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:18:16 unless my googling skills are deficient, it would seem that there's still no free CL that has native multi-threading on both Linux and Windows? 13:18:34 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-88-171.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 13:19:35 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.240.182] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:19:36 jiyunatori [~tom@4aa54-3-82-226-200-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:22 astoon [~astoon@109.188.240.182] has joined #lisp 13:20:31 rsynnott, why should't cl-gtk2 run on a Mac? 13:21:10 -!- jiyunatori [~tom@4aa54-3-82-226-200-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:21:24 chopwood: Clozure CL 13:21:47 Agreed like on windows you need to install the GTK2 toolkit. But is is still pretty much write once run anywhere. 13:21:56 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.74.188.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Quit: gone] 13:22:23 That was meant to be addressed to rsynnott . 13:22:40 stassats: Core i7? Is it an intel? 13:22:47 Posterdati: sure 13:22:49 yes 13:23:06 stassats: I prefer amd 13:23:37 Intel has taken the lead again. 13:23:44 tfb [~tfb@92.41.74.188.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:23:49 -!- cibs [~cibs@Sylpheed.Math.NCTU.edu.tw] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:23:51 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.226.132] has joined #lisp 13:24:07 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:26 Take a look at te specs of the Intel Zenon 7500 13:24:31 stassats: thanks. is there some strange quirk with CCL? I remember looking at it, but I don't remember why I put it down. 13:24:50 maybe the native threading is new, and I'm misremembering. 13:24:57 chopwood: maybe the quirk was with you? 13:25:04 maybe 13:25:05 Younder: GTK for MacOS (native UI) is not great; it really barely works right now 13:25:15 chopwood: it was always threaded 13:25:19 X11 gtk is okay 13:25:32 maybe you looked at it several years ago, when there was no windows port 13:26:06 Younder: x86-64 it's an AMD standard 13:26:16 and patent I think 13:26:54 rsynnott, What I like about GTK is it's object system which from the ground up is deigned to access any computer language. 13:27:23 designed 13:27:36 let's not discuss Intel vs. AMD either, ok? 13:27:46 fine 13:28:33 Why are there no OPS? 13:30:28 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-64-51.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:33 stassats: I need something I can place in an embedded project :) 13:30:35 chopwood: 32 bit CL didn't work on 64 bit windows until recently 13:30:39 Younder: no need. 13:30:45 G'morning all. 13:30:53 Younder: people will get ops when required to take action. 13:30:55 nyef: hi 13:30:59 chopwood: where recently eq "days ago". 13:31:02 Younder: other than that, everybody is equal. 13:31:11 nyef: gotta add more models to my lil project 13:31:15 ZabaQ: oh, it finally got that? Cool 13:31:20 ... but some are more equal than others. 13:31:34 stassats: I mean, a system image with sbcl server on it, would be nice 13:32:04 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-66-138-3.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:32:16 nyef, animal farm. Hi my greatest fan. ;) 13:33:03 rotfl 13:34:27 Posterdati, There is nothing preventing you from loading your desired libraries and calling save-lisp-and-die . 13:35:48 Younder: ok, but I'd like to have it like a complete OS on small micros 13:37:37 Posterdati, How small? 13:38:21 Younder: < 512kB ram and ~ 512kB flash 13:38:35 Younder: 32bit (arm core) 13:38:46 figures 13:39:42 ? 13:39:44 Then SBCL is not for you. 13:40:13 Younder: I think would be nice to have a Lisp REPL on such a piece of hardware 13:40:32 Posterdati: maybe use a different implementation? 13:40:37 You need something like clisp. 13:40:46 *rsynnott* would be slightly surprised if there's _any_ CL implementation that will deal with those constraints 13:40:48 ehu: hardware or software? 13:40:50 what platform is this? 13:41:10 or ACL 13:41:15 ECL! 13:41:17 rsynnott: I could fit it in a ep9302 core 13:41:26 lisp500? 13:41:58 Younder: waht about 64MB flash and 32MB ram (ep9302)? 13:42:10 forget it 13:42:22 Younder: no need for fs or other programs 13:42:28 clisp will do that, probably. 13:42:35 ehu: ok 13:42:42 ehu: with 512kb RAM? 13:42:48 really you would have to roll your own 13:43:11 rsynnott: no, the 32MB option. 13:43:19 but I don't want to rely on any OS on that chip 13:43:32 ehu: ah, yep, that could work 13:43:35 Symbolic ran with little more than that, but that was in the 80's 13:43:50 Younder: yes I know... 13:43:56 ECL would work fine with that. 13:44:09 Zhivago: uh! 13:44:45 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 13:45:07 Embedded Common Lisp 13:45:25 yes, interesting 13:45:32 And I am not sure about fine.. 13:45:55 is it non-working? 13:46:01 it works 13:46:21 does it work on your ARM target? 13:46:41 No, It works on my machine. But on ARM? 13:46:48 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:06 Younder: it will 13:47:22 Why don't you try end see. 13:47:26 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:29 p_l|backup: does the garbage collector? 13:47:49 ehu: yes, as well as boehm does 13:48:33 Younder: sure! 13:48:42 Younder: I'm trying to download it right now 13:52:51 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 13:54:26 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:54:37 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 13:54:39 mega1_ [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 13:57:25 mmmh I don't see any cross compilation hint :) 13:57:26 adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-201-90.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:56 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:04 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.240.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:09 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 13:59:55 Posterdati, what processor in the ARM family do you want to compile to? 14:00:05 Younder: arm9 14:00:11 Younder: it's an str912 14:00:43 Ahh the same as on my HP 50g. 14:01:28 it's a poor cpu 14:01:33 So 233 Mhz 32 bit RISC 14:01:42 no 96 MHz 14:03:00 You can change that, but then you suffer increased power consumption. 14:04:12 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 14:04:13 -!- adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-201-90.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:04:41 adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:58 adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-201-90.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:40 Younder: I don't like it, too tricky to program and poorly documented 14:06:04 Younder: even to program a simple port I/O it's a real pain 14:06:10 -!- adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-201-90.red.bezeqint.net] has left #lisp 14:07:01 You should try looking up the HP 50g user group. They are among the best assembly programmers for the ARM9. 14:07:31 Younder: if ecl works I hope I can forget asm on str912 :) 14:07:41 lol 14:08:09 But a few quick hacks would help increase speed. 14:08:22 I don't care 14:08:30 I prefer to see ST blowing 14:10:08 Oh and HP has a gcc cross compiler to ARM. 14:10:45 fusss [~fusss@120.156.190.144] has joined #lisp 14:11:07 I used a gcc cross toolchain here 14:11:12 http://www.ailis.de/~k/archives/19-ARM-cross-compiling-howto.html 14:11:20 does "archimag" come here? 14:11:35 author of RESTAS web framework 14:11:36 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:34 fusss: no 14:12:45 ehu` [~ehuels@109.33.170.109] has joined #lisp 14:12:50 Posterdati, Don't know if that helps it's a bit dated and refers to the 2.4 Linux Kernel. 14:13:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.226.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:13:39 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:44 Younder: mmmh... 14:13:49 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:13:50 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-171-12-242.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:18 stassats: pity, would love to say hi. I am new Restas convert/fanboi 14:14:43 fusss: how is it working for you? 14:15:02 fusss: he frequents a russian lisp jabber-conference 14:15:24 Just found a error message in lisp.ecl.general on ARM9 (http://osdir.com/ml/lisp.ecl.general/2008-03/msg00069.html) 14:15:38 panike [~nwp@fw.lmcg.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:15:39 or at least frequented when i frequented it 14:16:30 Younder: this is like, three years ago, man 14:16:53 stassats, so is the ARM9 14:17:15 astoon [~astoon@109.188.240.182] has joined #lisp 14:17:45 I was trying to guide him to better help. I don't know anyone here who is a expert on embedded systems. 14:18:11 p_l|backup: I looked at the tests/examples/docs for a few days, then sat down to write something. Only pleasant surprises so far. 14:18:21 *p_l|backup* is happy that there's no v9 yet, so "ARM9" doesn't cause namespace clashes... yet 14:18:26 fusss: but it's so hard to install! 14:18:34 p_l|backup: you can tell he wrote web apps in hunchentoot before. None of that arm-chair, design-the-best type of crap. 14:18:37 stassats: :) 14:18:45 Younder: :) thanks 14:19:10 Xach: really? restas? I am on XP, the least capable platform for Lisp. flawless with clozure (sbcl could never boot hunchentoot) 14:19:42 Sorry, was having 2009 flashbacks. 14:19:49 that's how Xach markets quicklisp 14:19:56 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:20:10 lol 14:23:44 biggest win for RESTAS is that it creates a fake hunchentoot session so you can run your web apps from the REPL and it prints the html as a raw string. No need for browser refresh :-) 14:23:56 urandom__ [~user@p548A453E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:30 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:25:56 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 14:26:56 I have a pair of html glasses which translates the html into browser output, so that solution is ideal for me too. 14:29:31 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:29:51 stassats: quick than what? 14:29:57 stassats: quicker than what? 14:30:02 than you 14:30:03 chopwood: simple tag filtering does the trick too. (ppcre:regex-replace-all "(<.+>)" html-body "") 14:30:09 akimbo [~akimbo@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:41 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:42 pmatos [~pmatos@host86-129-208-240.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:01 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has joined #lisp 14:31:07 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:43 -!- akimbo [~akimbo@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 14:35:14 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:35:20 akimbo [~user@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:37:05 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:38:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@64-251.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:32 fusss: yep. Or you could buy my html glasses. I sell X-ray glasses too. Both are four easy installments of 19.99. 14:40:00 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:40:25 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:25 heh 14:42:37 -!- benny [~benny@i577A23B4.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42:42 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: Linkinus is updating...] 14:43:10 fusss: I'll admit I'm a little in the armchair side, though the actual HTTP talking is rather like hunchentoot 14:44:18 mascotte [p.scott@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-18-225.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:44:32 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 14:45:42 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:53 fusss, The multitasking on XP saw great progress in 2010. 14:46:25 Particularly threading. 14:46:34 chopwood: you waster of my time; i'm actually writing a decent html renderer now ;-) 14:46:39 For SBCL. 14:46:47 Younder: I'm on clozure 14:47:26 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:35 I thought XP performance improved because Microsoft stopped sending updates 14:47:39 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.226] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:47:59 hunchentoot is the one where everything is continuation passing style? 14:48:08 chopwood: no 14:48:43 Fusss: WebKit has a decent open-source renderer that works cross platform. Used in Safari and Chromium. 14:48:52 fusss: given that XP was a stopgap that had massive issues caused by moronic userbase... :P 14:49:02 brb 14:49:57 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:29 My main regret is that MathMl is still in Alpha. 14:51:08 this is better than webkit, it's scriptable http://paste.lisp.org/display/119437 14:51:10 ;-) 14:51:34 lol 14:52:16 fusss: but increases the number of problems 14:52:45 ugh... I can't lol at using regex for DOM manip 14:53:16 stassats: i will not defend that; it started as a joke, in response to chopwood. scroll up 14:53:33 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.226] has joined #lisp 14:53:44 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 14:53:56 or i could walk the dom tree and print inner-text or whatever 14:54:04 tsuru, what DOM manip? This worked directly on the source. 14:54:42 -!- rien_ [~rien_@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:56:07 wish I could just (eval-xpath "//*[text()]") 14:56:20 meingbg [~meingbg@c-5ee3e055.85-2-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:56:25 plexibbus-xpath and I are not friends 14:56:40 why not ? 14:57:19 konr [~user@magoo.lab.ic.unicamp.br] has joined #lisp 14:57:23 fe[nl]ix: broken for me beyond my abilities 14:57:55 -!- chopwood [~chopwood@c-24-63-111-251.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:58:25 Gromit_ [~bear@tmo-101-215.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:22 CL-XML has a XPATH module 14:59:37 Younder: yes, plexibbus-xpath 15:00:35 I woudn't be friends with someone who consistently misspells my name either! 15:00:38 rotfl, So I am guessing you are stuck with it. 15:00:54 cmm: ;-) 15:01:28 *Younder* confesses my latest project used PHP. 15:01:37 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-207-194.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 15:01:46 Younder: I'm not stuck with *anything*; I learned some Java and switched to ABCL or when I have to 15:02:07 -!- akimbo [~user@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:26 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-88-171.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:02:39 -!- Gromit [~bear@server00.klix.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:04:00 rien_ [~rien_@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:04:01 fusss, Can't you use CFFI t communicate to the XPath implementation used in PHP (Written in C)? 15:04:30 billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:04:36 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:14 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:19 I had it on my machine, but a recent crash erased it. 15:05:21 Joreji [~thomas@79-126.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:05:46 Younder: it's not a critical issue. I wrapped the XPath part in a class and exported a method that takes a Document and an xpath string as argument and returns an ArrayList of matches to Lisp. It's even easier to write a stub for just the part you want, than to CFFI a whole type tree and do cruft manually 15:08:00 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:09:34 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 15:11:48 good nite 15:11:50 -!- fusss [~fusss@120.156.190.144] has left #lisp 15:12:55 Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.250] has joined #lisp 15:13:21 Shoot, I was going to recommend SWIG. 15:14:12 SWIG is for beverages! 15:14:31 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:14:42 setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.22] has joined #lisp 15:15:07 Well it took the C header and produced a working CL interface in SBCL. 15:15:21 with a bit of tweaking.. 15:15:32 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.22] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:15:49 setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.22] has joined #lisp 15:17:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:18:03 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 15:18:43 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:20:01 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.240.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:22:24 vilsonvieira [~vilson@187.112.160.90] has joined #lisp 15:22:28 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:07 milanj [~milanj_@77-46-249-102.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:25:28 pmurias [~pawel@89-75-37-59.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 15:26:07 how should i call a function that calls mapcar with supplied arguments and then does a (remove-if #'null ...) on the result 15:26:10 ? 15:26:32 pmurias: do you mean what name should it have? or do you mean how should it be invoked? 15:26:38 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.66.206.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:27:12 Well, the question was "how should I call", not "what should I call", implying a question of method, not a question of nomenclature... 15:27:37 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:27:51 pmurias: The ambiguity is killing me! 15:27:56 what's it's name should be 15:28:04 * whats 15:28:36 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-210-165.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:36 use LOOP instead 15:28:52 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:29:04 (loop for element in list when (funcall function element) collect it) 15:29:51 what's it's advantage over a mapcar remove-if combination 15:30:08 Less consing? 15:30:14 less consing, less list traversing 15:30:37 and how should the function i put the loop into? 15:31:02 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:31:11 btw the list will be pretty short <100 elems 15:32:01 mwnaylor [~mwnaylor@altoona-69-72-75-98.dynamic-dialup.coretel.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:27 xan_ [~xan@149.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:32:35 and (remove nil sequence) is an alternative to (remove-if #'null sequence) 15:33:20 pmurias: you should name it based on what it does 15:33:47 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fxjalfaxzzmltmot] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34:06 pmurias: are you asking if there is a common name for this pattern? Or are you having trouble thinking of a name? 15:34:19 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff66c3.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 15:36:42 remove -if-not (deprecated but much used) should be read as collect-if with a (setf (symbol-funtion (intern "collect-if") #'remove-if) you should get that. (untested) 15:37:03 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw137014.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:37:18 Younder's advices are deprecated 15:39:34 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:40:05 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl5-19-253.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:40:14 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:40:56 ok fdefinition might be better, but there if only a difference for setc constructors which have `wierd names `. 15:41:11 mk2 [~user@159.92.65.64] has joined #lisp 15:41:41 ok fdefinition might be better, but there is only a difference for setf constructors which have `weird names `. 15:41:47 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:59 anyhow collect if is a better name than remove-if-not. 15:45:38 The function is functional after all. 15:46:03 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:46:21 no side effects, so it's like remove. Returning a fresh copy. 15:46:31 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 15:47:08 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has left #lisp 15:47:31 this is CL, using functions with funny names is what we do. 15:47:56 I spell out my hyphens 15:49:39 TERPRI 15:49:50 (setf ( fdefinition((intern "collect-if"))) #'remove-if-not) 15:50:02 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff66c3.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:33 Younder: Please stop this bogus series of examples. 15:51:39 Xach: A bit off topic, I found out recently that you are probably older than 19 years old, which is what I previously imagined for a long time. 15:52:00 now that made me lol 15:52:41 Quadrescence: Gee, thanks. 15:53:09 *stassats* once was 19 years old 15:53:27 Xach: hey, I don't mean that in any insulting way. You're mature certainly, but very young sounding. 15:53:36 stassats: Are you SERIOUS? 15:53:46 benny [~benny@i577A3786.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:54:39 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:54:55 oh, the good old times, spam free email inbox... 15:55:00 Quadrescence: i bet Xach doesn't even have a beard 15:55:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:20 ok, who's going fix cl-jpeg so that it runs on abcl? 15:55:23 i bet he does once a year (around christmas :) 15:55:37 A beard is totally not Xach's style. 15:55:52 lies. http://xach.com/img/slad-shirt-black.jpg 15:56:02 slyrus: I elect stassats. 15:56:08 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:56:19 Xach: it's not a white beard, doesn't count 15:56:24 :-) 15:56:27 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 15:56:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 15:56:27 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:56:28 -!- mwnaylor [~mwnaylor@altoona-69-72-75-98.dynamic-dialup.coretel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:56:29 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 15:56:55 bah 15:57:11 Quadrescence: young sounding on the quicklisp demo? 15:57:17 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw137014.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:48 Xach: No, I meant in general, for whatever "sounding" means. But now that you remind me, I think so, yes, if I am correctly remembering the quicklisp demo. 15:57:51 I always pictured his beard braided 15:58:29 the secret to sounding old is to never agree with anyone and be grumpy in general 15:58:42 (setf (symbol-function 'collect-if) #'remove-if-not) 15:58:51 sight 15:59:18 Xach: is the official font for quicklisp Baskerville? 15:59:23 stassats: I disagree :P 15:59:29 Quadrescence: your nomination is seconded :) 16:00:07 uh, oh 16:00:27 (setf (fdefinition 'collect-if) #'remove-if-not) 16:00:54 -!- panike [~nwp@fw.lmcg.wisc.edu] has left #lisp 16:02:02 *stassats* doesn't have cl-jpeg installed and is too old-school to use quicklisp 16:02:04 I am amazed that even after more than 10 years minor details get in my way. I will test it first from now on. sorry! 16:02:14 antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-snjtaybftllrdnyt] has joined #lisp 16:02:31 i'm not amazed, for some reason... 16:03:03 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:03:10 sc0ty [~user@a85-138-126-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 16:04:06 you have pretty good grammar for a 10 year old 16:05:03 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:05:06 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 16:05:35 k9quaint: that's 10 and a half to you mister 16:05:50 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:08 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:18 hmm... that's too bad. but for the lack of cl-jpeg, opticl seems to work on abcl, minus any optimizations due to not having cltl2-like facilities 16:11:00 but all of the (pixel ...) and (setf (pixel ...) ...) hackery seems to work, which is encouraging 16:11:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl91ECDE23.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 16:12:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@149.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12:17 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13:52 (defmacro alias (name replacement) ` (setf (fdefinition ,name) ,replacement)) 16:13:59 xan_ [~xan@239.57.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:14:43 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:14:55 (alias 'collect-if #'remove-if-not) 16:15:50 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:17:08 -!- billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:17:22 panike [~nwp@fw.lmcg.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:17:32 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:33 billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:18:27 A FIXNUM will most likely be a machine-sized integer, yes? 16:18:41 no 16:18:44 (of course it's not required to) 16:19:13 You got two or three type bits assiged to it 16:19:46 A fixnum should be an efficient type for doing integer arithmetic. 16:20:00 so 2^29 or 2^62 of something. 16:20:37 -!- sc0ty [~user@a85-138-126-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:03 Okay, so approximately machine sized. (integer-length most-positive-fixnum) => 60 16:21:15 mega1 [~user@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 16:21:17 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:24 Yes it is stored in a word, but it can't necessary use all of the range. 16:21:26 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 16:21:47 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:51 -!- mega1_ [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:00 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 16:22:32 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:32 it = type info 16:22:41 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 16:23:02 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:11 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 16:23:11 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Client Quit] 16:23:44 -!- morlos [~morlos@cpe-76-171-76-155.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 16:25:43 bob_f [~bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 16:25:48 -!- bob_f is now known as bob_f_ 16:26:26 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.226] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:26:50 bohanlon [~bohanlon@66.170.231.109] has joined #lisp 16:27:52 -!- bob_f_ [~bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has left #lisp 16:28:40 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:29:49 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@213.55.131.17] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:31:13 bohanlon_ [~bohanlon@66.170.231.109] has joined #lisp 16:31:25 -!- bohanlon_ [~bohanlon@66.170.231.109] has quit [Client Quit] 16:31:48 bohanlon_ [~bohanlon@66.170.231.109] has joined #lisp 16:34:37 -!- bohanlon [~bohanlon@66.170.231.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:34:37 -!- bohanlon_ is now known as bohanlon 16:35:28 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:37:25 -!- billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:37:29 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:37:37 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:37:52 billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:37:54 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:38:10 -!- xan_ [~xan@239.57.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:38:30 basimple [~basimple@112.154.21.152] has joined #lisp 16:38:37 -!- billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 16:38:55 billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:39:54 silenius [~silenus@p4FC227BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:57 Are there any ways in CL to (attempt to) ensure more efficient collection of certain objects in memory? Kind of a general question, but I have a struct which has a slot with type (array *), which will tend to get large, and preferably they'd be efficiently allocated and destroyed. :) Or should I just not worry about it, as it's the implementation's job? 16:44:57 don't worry about it unless it turns out to be a bottleneck 16:44:59 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.178.167] has joined #lisp 16:45:23 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:54 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@187.112.160.90] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 16:46:00 -!- wubo_ [80f40907@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.244.9.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:49:03 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:49:35 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.33.170.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:49:49 -!- mitre [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 16:51:10 Quadrescence: use adjustable arrays and vector-push-extend, with an extension size proportional to the current size to ensure asymptotic begninity. 16:51:14 -!- krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 16:53:04 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:01 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 16:54:14 pjb: Thanks. 16:55:00 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 16:55:50 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-207-194.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:56:43 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:58:58 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:59:42 tcr1 [~tcr@213.55.131.17] has joined #lisp 17:00:03 bohanlon_ [~bohanlon@66.170.231.109] has joined #lisp 17:02:23 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:03:40 -!- bohanlon [~bohanlon@66.170.231.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:03:40 -!- bohanlon_ is now known as bohanlon 17:04:52 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:10 -!- panike [~nwp@fw.lmcg.wisc.edu] has left #lisp 17:06:59 hello 17:08:48 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-181-198-112.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:54 Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.221] has joined #lisp 17:09:42 -!- billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:09:54 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:10:01 billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:10:13 cibs [~cibs@Sylpheed.Math.NCTU.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 17:11:03 -!- billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:11:07 Blkt [~Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-37-227-177.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:11:31 billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:11:38 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-210-165.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:33 -!- billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:12:56 billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:16:08 v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has joined #lisp 17:16:11 tirinim. 17:16:25 sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 17:16:36 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:40 -!- billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:16:45 csamuelson [~csamuelso@173-14-110-121-nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:05 billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:20:04 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gxpzsrxjfqaxvevn] has joined #lisp 17:20:19 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@fibhost-66-129-193.fibernet.hu] has joined #lisp 17:20:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl91ECDE23.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:20:20 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 17:23:29 Quadrescence: it is the official font of the beta 17:23:30 kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has joined #lisp 17:23:39 -!- kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has left #lisp 17:23:48 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 17:24:23 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 17:24:24 bsod1_ [~osa1@188.56.133.222] has joined #lisp 17:26:26 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.178.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:26:42 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ocrvfsmjrzrfdxpb] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:27:50 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 17:28:21 good evening everyone 17:28:42 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:28:56 bohanlon_ [~bohanlon@66.170.231.109] has joined #lisp 17:29:27 Hello Blkt. 17:30:17 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@213.55.131.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32:01 -!- bohanlon [~bohanlon@66.170.231.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:32:01 -!- bohanlon_ is now known as bohanlon 17:32:35 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:10 -!- rien_ is now known as rien 17:33:44 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:02 -!- bsod1_ is now known as bsod1 17:35:35 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:58 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gxpzsrxjfqaxvevn] has left #lisp 17:37:57 -!- basimple [~basimple@112.154.21.152] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:38:32 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:39:27 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757887.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:45 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 17:42:27 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:43:18 -!- pmurias [~pawel@89-75-37-59.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:44:20 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-23.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:44:55 -!- mcguitan83 [~user@2001:660:330f:a4:219:d1ff:fe7d:3bfe] has left #lisp 17:48:18 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 17:48:27 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.218] has joined #lisp 17:50:14 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 17:51:52 -!- bsod1 is now known as bsod1_ 17:55:35 -!- billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-45-201.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:55:43 hmm how to escape backslash properly? "\\"=> "\\" , i want just "\" 17:55:56 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:56:56 v0|d: try (princ "\\") 17:57:43 hm it prints \ but returns \\, i want something like format nil "~A" .. 17:57:51 v0|d: the repl will print the string containing \ readably, which means it'll escape the \ in there. 17:57:59 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/numbers-characters-and-strings.html mentstion "\\" will result in \ 17:58:10 antifuchs: oh i see 17:58:13 the string still contains only one character (: 17:58:14 antifuchs: shame on me then. 17:58:21 no worries, it's confusing (: 17:58:29 (length "\\") => 1 17:58:30 great. 17:58:48 working in a crowdy internet cafe is not my fav, sorry for disturbance. 17:58:55 Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.221] has joined #lisp 18:00:50 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:01:15 -!- bohanlon [~bohanlon@66.170.231.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:03:18 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:25 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:04 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:04:07 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:59 -!- mascotte [p.scott@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-18-225.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 18:07:08 jikanter [~a@66.146.192.42] has joined #lisp 18:07:17 -!- antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-snjtaybftllrdnyt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:08:40 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 18:12:12 -!- joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:31 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has left #lisp 18:18:56 -!- trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number] 18:19:12 trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 18:19:48 joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:20:58 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:24:46 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66.243.225.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:26:21 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-100.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 18:27:00 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-121-90.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:27:37 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:27:40 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-121-90.wbs.co.za] has quit [Client Quit] 18:27:52 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-121-90.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:29:36 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:29:48 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:19 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:39:50 leo2007 [~leo@120.33.0.181] has joined #lisp 18:44:21 jdz [~jdz@host193-108-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:45:19 billitch [~billitch@78.250.203.193] has joined #lisp 18:46:59 sc0ty [~user@a85-138-126-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 18:47:10 is there a way to get sbcl to show a stack trace when it detects a memory error? I have some cffi running in a thread and it periodically seems to corrupt the image 18:51:04 hun [~user@91-65-90-50-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:51:36 bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 18:56:59 iisjmii [~iisjmii@197-248.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #lisp 18:57:37 Can anybody tell me how to redefine a method to one with a different number of required arguments in Slime? 18:58:06 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC227BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:07 ...or, easily undefine a method 18:58:42 iisjmii: remove-method iirc 18:58:44 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.203.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:59:03 oh nevermind that's just to remove one of the specializations 18:59:25 iisjmii: fmakunbound to remove the GF. 18:59:34 iisjmii: then redefine the GF and add the new methods. 18:59:42 billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.84] has joined #lisp 19:00:11 Xack: Thank you 19:00:15 *Xach 19:00:16 -!- sc0ty [~user@a85-138-126-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:03:12 How do I iterate over rows or columns of a multidimentional array? 19:03:15 -!- bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:03:38 naryl: you could use the list returned by array-dimensions to initialize and step a set of nested loops. 19:03:38 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-121-90.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:53 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-121-90.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:04:27 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:12:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@fibhost-66-129-193.fibernet.hu] has left #lisp 19:16:12 Or use row-major-aref, depending on your needs. 19:18:40 ok, actually I need to remove a column from a matrix by index. 19:19:07 thanks 19:25:46 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-100.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:27:14 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 19:28:17 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:28:22 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:28:55 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 19:29:06 carlocci [~nes@93.37.204.165] has joined #lisp 19:30:21 Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.250] has joined #lisp 19:32:06 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-100.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 19:34:52 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:35:08 kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has joined #lisp 19:35:30 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.74.188.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Quit: gone] 19:37:33 dlowe1 [~dlowe@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:41 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:37:42 -!- dlowe1 [~dlowe@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:38:43 dlowe_ [~dlowe@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:49 mitre [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has joined #lisp 19:40:24 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-121-90.wbs.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:37 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:57 hi, marvin minsky proposed a disk-based garbage collector for LISP 1.5. does anybody know whether it was actually used? 19:48:43 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:49:11 -!- bsod1_ is now known as bsod1 19:49:15 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:32 -!- Gromit_ [~bear@tmo-101-215.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:41 -!- bsod1 is now known as bsod1_ 19:52:42 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:52:58 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.218] has quit [Quit: Offline] 19:53:10 -!- billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:54:31 _danb_ [~user@124-171-12-242.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 19:55:09 morphling: afaik it wasn't so much disk based, as tape based, and it was a primitive stop© 19:55:15 and afaik it was usd 19:55:16 *used 19:56:54 -!- kittehsmith is now known as katesmith 19:57:12 -!- bsod1_ [~osa1@188.56.133.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:41 bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 19:57:46 adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:03 tcr1 [~tcr@213.55.131.17] has joined #lisp 19:58:10 cheez: I *think* you should be able to run sbcl with gdb and have gdb take control when a memory error happens. It's tricky, though, because sbcl uses segfaults for GC, so you need to tell gdb to ignore/pass certain signals. 19:59:02 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@213.55.131.17] has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:06 p_l|backup: ah, now the "serial" in the memo's title makes sense. thanks! 19:59:16 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.218] has joined #lisp 20:00:31 reb, yeah that was something I came across Unfortunately, I think it's a seg fault I'm trying to catch! 20:01:47 -!- rien [~rien_@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:03:36 panike [~nwp@cedric.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 20:05:48 Maybe gdb has something like its conditional breakpoint facility for handling stops because of signals, some spot where you could test whether the address of the segfault is likely to be from the unmapped end of heap page. 20:07:09 I believe it does not. 20:07:09 -!- pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:07:15 -!- masonium [48d3cd04@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.211.205.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:07:16 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 20:08:01 hello I've got a directed graph of triples of numbers as an adjacancy list, that looks like (((1 2 3) (5 5 5))....) the first element is the vertex and the following ones are adjacant vertices. 20:08:15 and i've just posted that into the wrong window, sorry 20:08:25 Time to modify the C code that handles the segfault in the runtime directory? You could transfer control to an infinite loop on "bad" segfault, then interrupt with gdb and investigate. 20:08:34 bad_alloc: too bad, it started well. 20:09:08 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:09 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-196.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 20:09:12 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-23.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:15 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:35 bad_alloc: where will you go on? 20:09:41 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:10:05 on irc.german-freakz.net #coding 20:10:57 Well, I'm banned there. Never connected. 20:11:08 Some kind of pre-banning? 20:11:27 well some of tha admins like to ban generously 20:11:33 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 20:11:39 like *.com etc ;) 20:11:51 adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:39 but actually now i have a question related to that one: how do i access something (a list) in a function further up in the stack? in some way like a pointer C. basically Funxtion x has an element e and calls function ythat is supposed to alter e. in C i'd use pointers, how do i do this in lisp? 20:12:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-126.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:13:00 Well, clearly, everybody -important- comes from a .edu, a .net, or a cc-tld, so... ;-p 20:13:30 -!- dlowe_ [~dlowe@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:14:28 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-121-90.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:14:32 bad_alloc: you cannot. You will have to pass something that's mutable. 20:14:40 eg. the cons cell where e is stored. 20:15:11 how do i pass the explicit cons? 20:15:16 I'm alone on irc://irc.german-freakz.net/#coding 20:15:21 dlowe_ [~dlowe@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:26 Instead of passing (car cell) you pass cell. 20:15:28 won#t lisp usually just copy the sequence? 20:15:52 No copy is done automatically on mutable objects. 20:16:05 "First, ECL isn't magic. It's compiling the output of the codewalker macros which look like the kind of barf that the loop macro only wishes it produced." 20:16:58 mathrick: ... ITERATE? 20:17:14 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75fe90.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:42 pjb: http://cxg.de/_c8d86f.htm why is this worng? 20:18:00 because a doesn't change even if i pass the "whole" thing 20:18:02 davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:02 rien [~rien_@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:07 hi 20:18:18 nyef: no, just an amusing quote 20:18:28 bad_alloc: It's wrong because you don't understand pass-by-value semantics. 20:18:31 bad_alloc: variables are not first class objects. 20:18:48 how discriminating. so i need to pass a as a list? 20:18:50 *mathrick* wishes CL still had real locatives 20:19:15 would greatly reduce the need for macros 20:19:32 disumu [~disumu@pD4B9EE5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:14 Joreji [~thomas@79-126.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:20:36 bad_alloc: there are several ways, but indeed, all involve wrapping the immutable value into a mutable object, be it a closure, a cons cell, a structure, whatever. 20:20:57 foom: indeed 20:21:18 pjb: thanks for the directions :) 20:21:37 bad_alloc: you can also embrace the functional style, and write instead: (defun x () (print (y 0))) 20:21:53 print isn't functional! 20:22:01 with (defun y (c) (declare (ignore c)) 9) 20:22:52 stassats: assume an implicit monad in there. 20:22:56 bad_alloc: bottom line is, CL doesn't have pointers the way C does 20:23:27 mathrick: Do you have a link about these "locatives"? 20:23:35 redline6561: perhaps, give me a sec 20:23:37 mathrick: I'm noticing. It's hard to get uised to it after many years of C/C++ (note the nick to see my relation to that langiage) 20:23:46 bad_alloc: but you can implement pointers in lisp easily: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/2183b41e2a37c258?hl=en 20:23:48 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:23:51 and some other such posts. 20:24:09 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has joined #lisp 20:24:13 the question was related to the depth first search in "an introduction to algorithms" p. 604 which requires to pass a vertex of a graph to a subroutine. is there any simpler way to depth-first-search a directed graph in lisp? 20:24:24 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/63b8eb7ee001c7b8?hl=en 20:24:49 abstraction leads to simpleness. 20:25:00 -!- dlowe_ [~dlowe@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:25:02 simplicity? 20:25:15 -!- leo2007 [~leo@120.33.0.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:25:18 Don't worry about implementation details. Hide them behind function abstration, object encapsulation, etc. 20:25:19 dlowe_ [~dlowe@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:43 *bad_alloc* heads back to the drawing board 20:26:14 nyef: yes, simplicity. Sorry :-) 20:26:24 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-100.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27:06 mathrick: So it's a lispy pointer abstraction? What makes you want it (i.e. what would you use it for)? 20:27:08 redline6561: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eT53wFq33c8J:common-lisp.net/project/bknr/static/lmman/fd-loc.xml+locatives+lisp&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&source=www.google.com 20:27:14 *redline6561* reads 20:27:35 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:27:43 pjb: it's disputable whether you can implement pointers "easily" 20:28:02 see my posts linked above. 20:28:13 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:28:25 but then, indeed, I'm satisfied with the pointer "API". I don't care if they're implemented with closures. 20:29:04 it's all fine unless you do something that needs them to be efficient 20:29:18 The SSC will take care of that :-) 20:29:36 -!- jdz [~jdz@host193-108-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:30:34 is there a way to revert back the behaviour of describe? 20:30:43 it doesnt print long structs. 20:30:44 francogrex [~user@109.130.24.27] has joined #lisp 20:30:46 pjb: yes, right after our strong AI solves the problems of cancer and world hunger :) 20:30:51 mathrick: Interesting, thanks. Though I'm still too inexperienced and work on too many performance-insensitive things to imagine using it. SSC for me too. :) 20:31:00 err i mean in sbcl 1.0.45 20:31:55 redline6561: it's like a pointer to pointer in C, or the reference operator in Perl. It does certain things easy that otherwise require lots of bending over backwards 20:36:16 gozoner [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has joined #lisp 20:36:16 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 20:36:24 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-145.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:36:28 hm, does anyone have a depth first implementation handy I could use as a pointer? I'm currently banging my head against this thing: [ http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~gini/aiprog/rich-knight/dfs.lisp ] which doesn't make much sense because of the undefined "goal-state?" 20:36:50 -!- disumu [~disumu@pD4B9EE5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:37:25 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-169-2.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:37:52 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 20:37:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 20:37:52 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:38:32 just use recursion 20:38:44 -!- dlowe_ [~dlowe@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:40:22 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 20:41:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.63.52] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:41:58 -!- Landr [~vser@78-22-154-231.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:41 gabnet [~gabnet@16.195.197-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:58 minion: Paste 24437? 20:45:18 Damn it, minion! 20:47:45 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.82.68] has joined #lisp 20:47:45 nyef: Is there (a) designated person(s) responsible for minion? 20:48:07 Well, I shouldn't have asked you specifically perhaps o_o 20:48:54 pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 20:48:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.218] has quit [Quit: Offline] 20:50:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-126.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:57:06 Kruppe` [~user@134.117.27.221] has joined #lisp 20:57:41 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.218] has joined #lisp 20:58:37 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:59:39 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:40 Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:45 Hexstream: Well, last I checked, nyef is the one taking care of minion, so you asked the right person. :) 21:02:56 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:03:05 Happy coincidence :) 21:04:38 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:45 Yeah, minion's owner has a life elsewhere, so I do a bit of the maintenance. 21:06:49 -!- Kruppe` [~user@134.117.27.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:49 Who's minion's owner? 21:06:56 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.24.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:05 Kruppe` [~user@134.117.27.221] has joined #lisp 21:08:01 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:10:09 chandler is. 21:10:59 OT: has anyone here used html for a presentation (a la powerpoint)? i.e. used something like slidy 21:11:18 to make or to watch? 21:12:28 make 21:13:05 Since using such presentations is rather painful in general (in whatever setting or interface), I was never compelled to make one. 21:13:20 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-21-11.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:13:57 pjb: why? 21:14:06 I mean why are they painful? 21:14:17 Good morning everyone! 21:14:49 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 21:14:51 prxq: I find it easier to read flowing text. 21:15:37 There's a lot of criticism of powerpoint style. 21:17:23 I've heard good things about "Give everyone a 10-page handout, then work through it as a group and do a Q&A. 21:17:48 give everyone a URL 21:17:53 save trees 21:18:16 Don't move to a same place, saves oil (dead trees). 21:19:04 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-121-90.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: Eish] 21:19:05 snearch [~snearch@f053007038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:19:11 answer Camus' question, commit suicide! 21:19:30 Or live in the Internet. 21:19:52 -!- bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: damned trees! i shall topologically sort the woods behind my house!] 21:20:04 being born in the first is environmentally unfriendly 21:20:22 first place 21:20:50 only if you're considered to be not part of the environment 21:21:25 *dlowe* was born in a closure, so he doesn't have to worry about that stuff. 21:21:49 leave it to humans to mess up something they're a part of, even themselves 21:22:36 plenty of creatures mess up their environment, no need to single anyone out 21:22:45 Marcux [~Adium@189.121.111.41] has joined #lisp 21:22:52 *stassats* messed up #lisp with off-topic 21:22:55 some of them make tasty beverages :D 21:23:01 and beer = lisp 21:23:15 -!- panike [~nwp@cedric.cs.wisc.edu] has left #lisp 21:23:33 dlowe: you get a lisp when you drink beer? 21:23:46 prxq: I get a beer when I code in lisp 21:23:57 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:58 There are bubbles in beer and bubbles are like () (()) () 21:24:20 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.229.51] has joined #lisp 21:24:56 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:26:12 http://www.w3.org/Talks/Tools/Slidy2/ 21:26:51 dlowe: I find alcohol really makes it hard to concentrate 21:27:29 you need the right amount of alcohol 21:27:54 prxq: it's better for debugging than creating 21:28:14 after some amount of alcohol i'm unable to type straight, let alone concentrate 21:28:52 stassats: Ah yes, the Ballmer Peak. 21:29:07 yes 21:30:22 Mmm. Just enough that you no longer care how difficult the hack you're attempting is, but not so much that you can't still hack straight. 21:32:26 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:32:43 would money work help not caring about difficulty? 21:33:50 -!- hun [~user@91-65-90-50-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:52 Only so far. 21:35:40 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 21:38:39 -!- kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has left #lisp 21:39:46 -!- koollman [~samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:40:05 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 21:41:44 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75fe90.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: good night] 21:43:07 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 21:43:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.218] has quit [Quit: Offline] 21:43:44 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:43:58 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-74-127.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:44:52 -!- davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:08 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 21:46:06 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-85-139.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:46:48 koollman [~samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has joined #lisp 21:48:22 _hramrach [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 21:48:39 -!- hramrach__ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51:00 davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:57 francogrex [~user@109.130.24.27] has joined #lisp 21:52:05 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:52:25 Hi, can someone give an advice on using run-program correctly in this example: http://paste.lisp.org/display/119449 21:53:03 francogrex: the arguments need to be separate strings 21:53:10 not a single string separated by spaces 21:53:17 francogrex: '("-sysin" "C:/test.sas" "-print" "C:/testprog.lst" "-log" "C:/testprog.log") 21:53:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:53:52 -!- churib [~churib@95.156.194.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:59 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 21:54:13 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.229.51] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:42 -!- mk2 [~user@159.92.65.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:44 stassats: antifuchs: ok thanks it works now! 21:55:23 No problem with the / in pathnames? I'd be inclined to use sb-ext:native-namestring to get compatible names. 21:57:46 on windows this that stassats posted above works fine without problems 22:01:26 but then maybe using sb-ext:native-namestring would be a safer option in the general case I guess 22:02:19 -!- Kruppe` [~user@134.117.27.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:50 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:03:11 mcguitan83 [~user@mar92-10-82-239-64-83.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:53 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:34 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:08:45 -!- milanj [~milanj_@77-46-249-102.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:09:08 d4n [d4n@flexo.g0at.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:22 -!- d4n [d4n@flexo.g0at.net] has left #lisp 22:09:29 d4n [d4n@flexo.g0at.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:55 -!- d4n [d4n@flexo.g0at.net] has left #lisp 22:10:27 d4n [d4n@flexo.g0at.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:32 -!- d4n [d4n@flexo.g0at.net] has left #lisp 22:10:52 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:11:42 urandom_ [~user@p548A682E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:06 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757887.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:59 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:13:38 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A453E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:14:02 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:42 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:14:45 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 22:15:55 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:26 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:19:39 job [job@instituut.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:20 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-147-227.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:20 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.24.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:21 -!- hugod_ [~hugod@76.66.188.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:33 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@16.195.197-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 22:21:15 hugod_ [~hugod@76.66.188.14] has joined #lisp 22:21:20 francogrex [~user@109.130.29.115] has joined #lisp 22:21:39 -!- job [job@instituut.net] has left #lisp 22:21:47 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.128] has joined #lisp 22:22:59 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.29.115] has quit [Client Quit] 22:25:57 akimbo [~user@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:40 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:40 -!- Raykon [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:28:55 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:55 nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:48 In slime, are the lambda-lists that pop up in the minibuffer something the compiler decides, or something slime has built in? (I'm referring to the actual text that is displayed, not how it is displayed) 22:34:14 that's what lisp tells slime 22:35:04 Ah, okay. 22:37:28 ASau [~user@95-27-147-227.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:37:29 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A682E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:47 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:39:40 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:40:07 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-133-236.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:40:57 zc00gii_ [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:01 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-147-227.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:34 ASau [~user@95-27-147-227.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:43:10 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:44:14 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-196.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:45:17 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-081-182.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 22:45:23 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:45:41 -!- zc00gii_ [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:46:25 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:12 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:48:58 chiguire [~jstypo@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 22:52:32 afternoon folks 22:54:13 -!- rien is now known as rien|work 22:59:30 Hello slyrus! 23:01:07 beach: ABCL basically works, but for the fact that cl-jpeg doesn't compile, and there's no cltl2 facility, that I've found, anyway 23:01:36 so if one disables the jpeg stuff, you get the unoptimized pixel functions, which, hey, you're using java, what do you care about performance for anyway? 23:01:47 ;) 23:02:20 Hmm. 23:02:29 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:03:00 -!- hugod_ [~hugod@76.66.188.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:12 I thought Java itself was pretty quick these days. But it might of course still be the case that Java programmers don't care about performance. 23:03:22 -!- rien|work [~rien_@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:03:35 hugod_ [~hugod@76.66.188.14] has joined #lisp 23:04:09 well, I was being facetious... yes, it would be nice to make it run fast there too 23:04:20 the jpeg stuff is certainly fixable, not that I want to do it. 23:04:40 Is it ehu maintains ABCL? 23:04:46 how much is there to fix with the jpeg stuff? tons and tons? 23:04:54 I will ping V-ille and ehu about what to do about getting the lexical environment stuff working 23:06:11 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:10:27 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:10:49 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:11:36 I have asked this before, but I can't remember the verdict: Suppose a macroexpander detects a syntax error so that no code can be generated. Should it signal an error, counting on the compiler to convert it to a warning, or should it signal a warning and generate code that signals an error, or something else? 23:12:19 Joreji [~thomas@79-126.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:12:30 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-21-11.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:13:59 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 23:14:04 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:14:19 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:16:49 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 23:17:06 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:17:24 Krystof [~csr21@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:18:05 -!- jikanter [~a@66.146.192.42] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:18:11 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.39] has joined #lisp 23:18:57 that's a good question. let me know when you get the answer :) 23:19:00 If it signals an error, and the compiler doesn't convert it to a warning, compilation will be interrupted which is not so nice. On the other hand, in the second case, when a form is used interactively, the warning will be immediately followed by an error. 23:19:11 also should our macroexpander expand the image variable too? 23:19:31 -!- keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:07 slyrus: I'll definitely let you know when I have the answer, but I would appreciate some thinking out loud here so that I can sort things out. 23:20:21 slyrus: What does it mean to "expand the image variable"? 23:20:56 beach: i'm a little fried from skiing -- but I'll try to think about sometime soon 23:21:30 beach: to call get-setf-expansion on image-var 23:21:40 the example in CLHS does that 23:21:44 keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:54 -!- nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:23:42 slyrus: Oh, that depends on whether you require it to be a variable (as suggested with the -var suffix) in which case no, or if you allow arbitrary expressions, in which case the answer is yes. 23:23:48 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:24:28 slyrus: In what I did with with-image and pixel, it had to be a variable, because I needed to store information about it, so I didn't do anything particular about it. 23:24:33 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-41-25.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:24:38 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:50 -!- csamuelson [~csamuelso@173-14-110-121-nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:24:53 slyrus: If you don't need that, then it is probably best to allow for arbitrary expressions. 23:25:14 Ok, I think we should then. I'll take a look. 23:25:20 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:30 arvid [~arvid@186.205.212.226] has joined #lisp 23:27:15 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-207-194.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:30:31 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:33:40 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-162-24.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:33:58 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-158-232.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:34:06 The CLHS says "Conditions of type error might be signaled by the compiler in situations where the compilation cannot proceed without intervention." Can someone give me examples of such situations? 23:38:08 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl5-19-253.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 23:38:53 clhs 3.2.5 23:38:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_be.htm 23:39:57 This section suggests that compilers might convert errors to warnings. In that case, it is probably best for macroexpanders to signal errors if appropriate. 23:40:44 is ccl's variable-information 1) like that described in cltl2 and 2) exported from any package? 23:40:58 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:41:44 beach: I think we should signal an error 23:41:55 -!- Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:42:58 slyrus: it's exported from CCL 23:43:15 ok, thanks stassats 23:43:24 and it behaves like described in cltl2 23:43:29 superficially 23:45:50 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:37 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:50:32 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:18 Xach: what do I do if quicklisp doesn't seem to work on ccl64? 23:52:29 ok, thanks again stassats 23:53:51 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:58:04 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-207-194.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:58:26 tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has joined #lisp