00:04:59 leifw [~leif@ool-18bac6ad.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:32 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-200.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:08:27 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:41 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:34 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:34 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:10:39 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:05 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 00:14:43 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 00:24:10 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24:28 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:20 Xach: btw, i came back to a lisp project of mine after like a year of not touching it, and found my libs were out of date vs. the sbcl I had installed ... I tossed out my homegrown clc-alike and installed quicklisp. am happy. 00:25:30 -!- Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-69-119.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:26:10 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-175-231.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 00:31:59 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:08 Xach: I have a question. I found a bug in cl-lex a while back, and posted an issue to the google code project. There hasn't been any response about this, so I think cl-lex may be unmaintained - is there some way I could take stewardship of it for Quicklisp? 00:32:43 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:19 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:33 kpreid: sweet 00:34:05 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:34:06 adamvh: hmm, sure, you could just ask the maintainer if you can take over... 00:34:27 adamvh: otherwise you could go through the normal fork process (make a new name, get people to use your version, etc) 00:34:33 Xach: it would be nice if the docs tell you that add-to-init-file is going to tell you what it does before proceeding 00:34:44 and also where it's going to stash its files 00:35:02 *Xach* must add lots and lots more docs, for sure 00:41:30 well, I'm specifically thinking of at the beta stage. I'm happier trying out software if it says what it's going to install 00:44:20 Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has joined #lisp 00:45:44 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:46:19 sellout__ [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:13 -!- empt [~empt@221.181.131.63] has left #lisp 00:49:00 kpreid: add-to-init-file seems almost self-documenting to me. 00:49:10 kpreid: what would you like the docs to say? 00:49:21 it is self-documenting, but it is not documented that it is self-documenting 00:49:50 I want it to be documented that it is possible to find out what add-to-init-file will do (it happens that that is by running it) 00:51:15 -!- xvilka [~xvilka@109.170.106.227] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:51:29 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:51 -!- vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:52:35 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 00:56:06 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:29 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:57:36 Hey #lisp, how do you do system calls via sbcl? 00:58:04 through sb-posix 00:58:20 if that's what you were asking 00:58:30 Yeah, probably 00:58:47 Also: How about options parsing for stand-alone programs? 00:58:56 *jesusabdullah* is looking through the cliki for hints too 00:59:46 *beach* always jumps when reading "stand-alone programs". 01:00:42 Why? 01:01:23 No libc? No system calls? 01:01:30 Huh? 01:01:31 no universe? 01:02:19 ... "The Cheese Stands Alone"? 01:03:16 (How do /I/ do system calls via SBCL? I write custom VOPs to emit the system call instruction, then...) 01:03:38 VOP? 01:03:53 It's a construct specific to the Python compiler, don't worry about it. 01:04:00 heh 01:04:02 Okay 01:04:04 minion: what does VOP stand for? 01:04:04 Voltaic Overturn Picturely 01:04:30 o.O? 01:04:31 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:04:37 those are english words... I think 01:04:58 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-199-58.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:05:47 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 01:05:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 01:05:47 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 01:05:58 Hah 01:05:59 Well 01:06:04 browsing cliki paid off 01:06:09 Sorry to bother y'all :) 01:06:44 Landr: yes, exactly. 01:07:42 oh, sarcasm 01:07:48 i've heard of that! 01:07:50 ._. 01:08:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Client Quit] 01:08:53 nyef: Does SBCL not use libc as a wrapper for system calls? 01:10:04 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:10:10 nyef: does SBCL actually use bare syscalls ? 01:13:36 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:13:48 *Xach* has some code from dtc for bare syscalls 01:14:32 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:15:54 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@66.243.225.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:16:27 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 01:17:11 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:17:19 I am interested because I would like to know how hard it would be to get rid of libc alltogether. 01:17:38 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:17:43 -!- Sluggo [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:59 beach: duane rettig has written on the topic on cll 01:18:23 Xach: Ah, that's what I get from not reading it anymore. Recently? 01:18:27 beach: from the allegro perspective. maybe it was more of a "no-C runtime" angle, though. can't quite remember. 01:18:37 beach: no, sometime in the last 10 years 01:18:42 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66.243.225.8] has joined #lisp 01:19:46 beach, fe[nl]ix: Of course SBCL uses libc and not bare syscalls. That doesn't mean I didn't go to the trouble to figure out how to make a bare syscall from SBCL. 01:20:46 nyef: And what did you figure out? Could it be worth the trouble? 01:20:58 Worth the trouble in what sense? 01:21:32 It's almost entirely pointless for SBCL in its current form, because it's inherently far less portable than binding to libc. 01:22:20 nyef: OK. I'll have to think about "worth the trouble" some more. Not sure yet. 01:22:50 Remind me in about twelve hours or so and I can try to find my notes. 01:23:09 I seem to recall working out some of the basics for both x86 and x86-64 SBCL. 01:25:04 beach: you'd need to write(and maintain) the syscall library for a large number of (kernel,CPU,ABI) triples 01:25:46 with little to gain(a little less call overhead, perhaps?) 01:26:06 -!- leifw [~leif@ool-18bac6ad.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:06 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC225C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:49 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:13 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-216-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:37 everything is linux/amd64 01:28:40 sluggo [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:48 All the world's a VAX. 01:28:58 Mmm... Possibly a lot: No more futzing with the FPU mode. 01:29:02 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 01:29:58 I'd agree with the "everything is linux/amd64" if it weren't for 32-bit windows being popular and my typing this on a PPC system. 01:32:05 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-129-201.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:09 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:34 nyef: and with MIPS laptops improving fast and ARM laptops supposedly near, we'll have even more useable architectures 01:32:37 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:32:43 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:11 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.166] has joined #lisp 01:33:29 *ilmari* pats his linux/armel phone 01:33:35 ... Ooh. MIPS laptops? 01:33:51 netbooks at least 01:33:53 *nyef* wants a MIPS that will run linux 2.6 instead of the 2.4-only system he has now. 01:34:13 Meh. Another 1024x600 screen? 01:34:30 (Or worse?) 01:34:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:00 Well, there's http://www.openbsd.org/loongson.html 01:35:19 nyef: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Loongson 01:36:19 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:40:04 So, nothing that I'll be easily able to find around here, and nothing suited for serious work? 01:40:36 So, #lisp, what am I doing wrong here? https://gist.github.com/802414 :/ 01:41:10 nyef: not yet 01:41:53 jesusabdullah: you probably want your package to use "COMMON-LISP" as well. 01:42:24 Ah 01:42:33 jesusabdullah: I concur with pkhuong, add :cl to your package :use list. 01:43:01 Yeah, that sounds reasonable 01:43:04 trying 01:43:14 <_3b> also, doesn't parenscript have functions for loading files of parenscript code? 01:43:16 Good call, guys! 01:43:32 I didn't think so, but point taken _3b---I'll double-check 01:44:38 jesusabdullah: Can you think of two ways you could have found this by yourself? 01:44:47 <_3b> ps:ps-compile-file for example 01:45:33 Yeah 01:45:40 Was just looking there 01:45:44 Missed it the first time :S 01:45:53 nyef: Re: parenscript, or re: loading packages right? 01:45:59 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:24 Obviously I could've read the parenscript docs more carefully, but in terms of the packages, I was pretty much stumped tbh 01:46:24 lemoinem [~swoog@88-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:03 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:47:44 I looked at the hyperspec but was just getting myself confused 01:48:50 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:48:51 -!- srijan4 [~srijan4@202.78.175.199] has left #lisp 01:51:42 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-93.sub3.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 01:57:51 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:58:50 Right, but in retrospect, can you see what could have tipped you off about your package problem? 02:00:40 I see three things for the not-using-common-lisp thing, and one fairly pervasive tipoff for doing-something-wrong-with-package-names. 02:01:08 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:01:16 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:01:51 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 02:04:01 lodger [~paulo@187.114.113.112] has joined #lisp 02:05:22 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:06:05 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-160-8.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:07:02 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:07:08 Okay, I asked the wrong question earlier: What I want to do is spawn a process from my lisp program 02:07:28 How do I do that? :E My googling's drawing a blank. It seems it's non-standard, so I'm using sbcl if that helps 02:07:40 -!- lodger [~paulo@187.114.113.112] has quit [Client Quit] 02:07:45 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:51 jesusabdullah: what CL do you use? 02:08:05 sbcl 02:08:08 sb-ext:run-program. If that's not enough, I believe iolib offers something that's elsewhere in the design space. 02:08:09 at the moment 02:08:12 ah 02:08:17 I'd imagine that would be plenty 02:09:27 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10:40 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:54 i like ur name jesus abdullah 02:11:25 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-216-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:11:55 Cyd: we don't like trolls very much here. 02:12:23 Cyd: Me too? 02:12:33 <--not a troll, just dumb 02:12:42 son of a beach 02:12:44 hehehe 02:12:46 *Cyd* giggles 02:13:34 Some people are easy to please. 02:14:15 like your mother 02:14:16 *Cyd* giggles 02:14:56 Cyd: go away. 02:15:13 dont be such tightwads 02:16:07 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 02:16:08 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*zinc@unaffiliated/cydd 02:16:14 -!- Cyd [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (Wrong answer.) 02:16:17 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 02:17:30 o__o 02:21:29 I want to make a joke about Cyd "walking like an Egyptian", but I think I will just tweak my parenscript instead :) 02:22:49 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-113-40.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:35 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-159-225.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:26:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 02:26:25 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:02 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:27:14 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 02:27:25 -!- kuffaar is now known as kfr 02:28:42 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66.243.225.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:29:00 hah 02:29:57 I think I got sbcl to execute my generated javascripts in node, but I'm too lazy to think about capturing output right now 02:30:24 Maybe doing it from the node side is the right way 02:30:26 Oh well 02:33:10 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:34:16 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66.243.225.8] has joined #lisp 02:39:23 flyfish [~liuguangz@61.50.131.98] has joined #lisp 02:42:09 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:42:32 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 02:46:28 Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-49-74.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:50:15 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:51:31 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:33 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.39] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:58:03 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.39] has joined #lisp 02:59:16 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-93.sub3.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:59:51 -!- dfkjjkfd 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joined #lisp 04:30:33 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:59 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:35:59 pillton [~user@124-171-201-100.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:36:02 justin` [~user@justin.caratzas.org] has joined #lisp 04:37:42 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:37:56 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-200-178.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:38:06 Is anyone here on the osicat mailing list? 04:43:25 -!- jleija [~jleija@c-98-199-38-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:43:26 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:50:12 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx59-2a-238.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:37 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-31-241.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:28 -!- flyfish [~liuguangz@61.50.131.98] has left 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[~Salamande@ppp121-45-73-166.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:38 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:34:56 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 05:38:28 jhoe [~aby@125.162.207.74] has joined #lisp 05:39:19 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 05:39:49 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:40:28 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@adsl-99-104-105-38.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:41:02 -!- jhoe [~aby@125.162.207.74] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 05:42:48 adu [~ajr@pool-173-73-0-57.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:11 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-73-166.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:59:39 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-151-161.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@117.28.18.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:01:55 mega1 [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:51 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-151-161.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:08:20 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:11:28 Xach: You gave me a scheme-in-lisp earlier, I lost track of the link, could you resend it? My buffer doesn't go back that far, and I'm having trouble finding #lisp logs for 2011 06:11:33 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:14:24 pnq1 [~nick@AC81B174.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 06:14:45 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81B174.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:14:56 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 06:15:43 Modius: it's pseudo scheme in the cmu ai-repository. 06:15:49 Google will find it for you. 06:16:05 R4RS only though. 06:17:51 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-126-8.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:32 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 06:26:06 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-140-117.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:15 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 06:26:30 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-126-8.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:28:34 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:32:58 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-140-117.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:37:02 maxigas [~user@dsl51B653EC.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 06:37:28 anybody knows if cor3 server (website: labs.core.gen.tr ) is still active? 06:37:43 or how does it compare to other (lisp) web frameworks? 06:39:16 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:58:59 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:01:09 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-175-231.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:04:16 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-155-254.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:54 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-167-36.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 07:18:22 mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-10-12.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 07:23:14 -!- mega1 [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:27:06 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-155-254.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:28:16 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:32:08 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:39:16 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-49-30.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:43 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:42:14 -!- sm` [s@77.29.19.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:45:50 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:45:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:45:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:46:21 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 07:47:59 sm` [s@77.29.241.232] has joined #lisp 07:50:18 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-49-30.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:51:05 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:55:02 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 08:03:03 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:05:19 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:05:48 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-98-184.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:56 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:10:02 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:10:36 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-98-184.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:11:41 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:12:56 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl7-32-110.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:19:35 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:20:24 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 08:20:40 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 08:23:15 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:23:33 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-164-222.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:46 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-218-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:27:35 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:28:29 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-164-222.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:29:19 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:37 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66.243.225.8] has joined #lisp 08:30:45 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:30:57 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.49.27.70] has joined #lisp 08:32:53 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-218-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:34:26 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-14-71.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:35:44 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:36:17 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-23-200.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:40:29 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-130-211.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:59 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:44:45 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81B174.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: sleep] 08:45:38 kiuma [~kiuma@93-36-7-159.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:45:49 good morning lispers 08:46:46 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:26 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:49:56 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B32799E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:32 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B3269BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:52:08 kiuma: have you heard about cor3 engine? 08:53:38 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:53:52 maxigas, no what's that ? 08:53:52 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:55:14 fusss [~fusss@110.141.103.87] has joined #lisp 08:56:15 thesaskwatch [4dfe80d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.254.128.214] has joined #lisp 08:56:38 hi, how should I choose an implementation of lisp to learn? 08:56:47 I mean common lisp on linux 08:57:23 thesaskwatch: are you using an specific book or just dabbling? 08:57:50 any book you recommend? 08:58:39 <_3b> any CL implementation should work, sbcl is a popular choice 08:59:10 is slime working fine with sbcl ? 08:59:21 <_3b> yes 08:59:52 thesaskwatch: Practical Common Lisp is free online, and available for purchase, if you have previous programming experience 09:00:01 is there a big difference between all those implementations in lisp? I mean language features .. syntax .. ? 09:00:15 <_3b> they all implement the CL standard 09:00:21 thesaskwatch: slime works impeccably well with any Lisp implementation that has had a release in the last 5 years 09:00:55 is there some standard describing core language .. like ansi c ? 09:01:07 <_3b> beyond that there may be implementation specific additions for things like networking, threads, etc, though usually you can find a portable library that will let you change implementations as needed 09:01:09 thesaskwatch: exact same language. whatever platform differences there are have been painted over with portability libraries. One of the few truly write-once compile-everywhere languages 09:01:25 that's great 09:01:32 thesaskwatch: yes, the ANSI Common Lisp specification, and its ISO brother 09:01:32 thanks for help to a newbie :) 09:01:58 now I have to dive in 09:02:08 <_3b> sbcl can compile to faster code than most implementations (but has one of the slower compilers), and tends to be pickier about standards compliance for most things 09:02:15 thesaskwatch: you can't go wrong with CCL and SBCL 09:02:25 on linux they all rock 09:02:42 what is CCL? 09:02:42 -!- Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:56 if you want threads and web server on windows, CCL might do it. but if you want more graphics and GUI stuff, the Windows port of sbcl is better 09:03:01 Clozure Common Lisp 09:03:01 <_3b> ccl compiles quickly and makes reasonably fast code, clisp uses a bytecode interpreter, so might be slower, but makes smaller binaries 09:03:43 I don't care about library size atm, I just want to learn the language 09:03:52 thesaskwatch: the differences wont really matter until you're folding proteins or doing real-time compression ;-) 09:03:58 no practical use for me until I know what is it 09:04:02 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 09:04:11 <_3b> yeah, any should be fine for starting out :) 09:04:33 for me lisp is the language of year 2011 ;) 09:04:34 <_3b> sbcl+slime is a good choice, and quicklisp for installing libraries 09:04:54 <_3b> (just avoid anything lisp related provided by a linux distro if you want support here) 09:05:04 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.49.27.70] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 09:05:16 which mean I should do everything by myself, right? 09:05:24 <_3b> well, except emacs... distro packages of that should be OK 09:05:36 <_3b> minion: tell thesaskwatch about quicklisp 09:05:37 thesaskwatch: look at quicklisp: Quicklisp aims to make it easy to get started with a rich set of community-developed Common Lisp libraries. http://www.cliki.net/quicklisp 09:05:38 why is that? 09:06:13 don't the distro guys know what are they doing? 09:06:25 <_3b> they might, but /we/ don't know what they are doing :p 09:06:33 :) 09:06:42 <_3b> also, most of them don't have enough people caring about lisp to really keep up 09:07:00 ok, it's better knowing what's going under the hood anyway, so I'll go the manual way 09:08:53 -!- huehnts [~huehnts@static.213-239-210-158.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: quitting] 09:08:54 <_3b> yeah, just grab a binary from sbcl.org, install that, then install quicklisp following the instructions from http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 09:09:06 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:09:10 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:09:20 ok, I'll do it like this 09:09:40 <_3b> that has stuff for installing/setting up slime, and getting libraries 09:11:20 there is x86 and amd64 package, but I'm having intel 64 bit cpu .. I know this i a lame question .. which one to choose :) ? 09:11:26 <_3b> amd64 09:11:40 <_3b> (assuming you run a 64bit OS) 09:12:40 x86-64 is the generic name, a.k.a. AMD64, a.k.a. Intel 64 09:12:42 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 09:13:07 not to be confused with IA-64, which is very very different 09:13:28 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:47 -!- thesaskwatch [4dfe80d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.254.128.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:17:06 Good afternoon everyone! 09:17:34 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-177-100.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:17:54 spearalot [~spearalot@host-95-192-121-54.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:02 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:46 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 09:28:28 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:28:37 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-73-0-57.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 09:28:54 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:29:59 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:00 How to correct in SBCL when it says "Don't know how to REQUIRE FOO" when I have FOO in the sbcl directory? 09:30:25 <_3b> if FOO isn't an sbcl contrib, you probably need to tell asdf how to find it 09:30:51 how do i tell asdf how to find it? 09:30:58 it doesn't have a .asd file btw 09:31:41 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:41 <_3b> ah, if it isn't an asdf system, asdf won't help 09:31:54 <_3b> one way would be to write an .asd file 09:32:56 <_3b> otherwise, maybe use LOAD instead of REQUIRE, or use the optional pathname list arg to require 09:33:18 <_3b> or if whatever it is has docs, see if it says how to load it 09:33:18 aha wait 09:33:21 it does have onw 09:33:23 one 09:33:46 so i can try to make a symlink in site-systems directory 09:33:50 one moment 09:36:45 hm 09:36:49 that didn't work 09:36:58 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.110] has joined #lisp 09:37:17 but now it does have an asdf file and a symlink in site-systems, like other libs 09:37:38 these errors are coming from swank startup btw 09:38:35 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:38:53 <_3b> what specifically is it trying to load? 09:39:01 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 09:39:47 i did "Esc-X slime" in emacs 09:40:57 <_3b> i mean what is FOO in your original question 09:41:09 it did work before, but i think it stopped working when i deleted ~/.bscl or when i did "find /usr/local/lib/sbcl -name *fasl -type f -exec rm -v '{}' \;" 09:41:17 ah, sorry 09:41:27 it's a series of things, but the first is 09:41:34 <_3b> yeah, deleting .fasl files in sbcl install dir sounds like a bad idea 09:41:35 SB-BSD-SOCKETS 09:41:52 should i reinstall sbcl? 09:41:58 <_3b> ok, so sbcl contribs... you don't need to tell asdf about those (and should probably delete the symlink you added) 09:42:09 <_3b> yeah, reinstall sounds like a good idea 09:42:35 i delete the symlink now 09:42:46 ok i try a reinstall 09:43:41 <_3b> on most sane setups, you probably would not be able to recreate those .fasl files as a normal user, so loading the contribs would fail 09:45:01 "Hack an be merry" => so it worked! 09:45:04 i see 09:45:10 thanks for the tip and the explanation 09:45:14 <_3b> and for the same reasons, the only .fasl files that should be in that dir are the ones from the install, so no neede to delete them 09:45:49 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:46:39 aha 09:47:37 but generally, if i want to get some files recompile, it's OK to delete their *fasl files, no? 09:48:33 <_3b> right, deleting .fasl files from your code (or per user installed libs) is a reasonable thing to do 09:48:48 thank 09:48:49 s 09:50:14 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:48 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 09:52:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 09:52:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:53:12 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 09:55:15 msingh [~khali@203.171.123.8.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:55:16 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:56:17 -!- msingh [~khali@203.171.123.8.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 09:57:04 algal_ [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:57:04 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:14 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:58:14 -!- mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-10-12.uqwimax.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:33 -!- algal_ [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 09:59:08 thesaskwatch [~mateusz@77-254-128-214.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 10:00:06 -!- thesaskwatch [~mateusz@77-254-128-214.adsl.inetia.pl] has left #lisp 10:00:16 thesaskwatch [~mateusz@77-254-128-214.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 10:00:39 mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-11-125.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 10:01:03 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:04:15 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:05:06 mascotte [p.scott@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-10-193.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:06:06 does anybody of you use hunchentoot v.1.1.1? I'm currently having "connection: I/O timeout while doing input on [..socket..]" 10:08:27 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:14 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002dac.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:24 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002dac.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:42 H4ns``` [~user@p579F8B6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:48 srijan4 [~srijan4@202.78.175.199] has joined #lisp 10:09:51 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002dac.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:26 -!- H4ns`` [~user@p579F87D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:13:36 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:13:52 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 10:19:07 kiuma: yes, familiar error that 10:19:54 I am not sure what it means exactly, I have M-. into it a few times and found out hunchentoot was doing I/O on closed sockets 10:20:04 kiuma: H4ns```might have a better idea 10:20:07 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:21:53 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:22:22 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:23:20 c|mell [~cmell@175.106.62.156] has joined #lisp 10:26:39 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:33 lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-175-101-96.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:22 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AB70.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:35 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:28:58 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:31:30 xinming_ [~hyy@115.221.37.255] has joined #lisp 10:32:58 I'm having a problem setting up slime, I get .. ASDF could not load swank because While searching for system "swank": "/home/mateusz/systems" evaluated to 10:32:58 "/home/mateusz/systems" which is not a directory.. 10:33:19 but it *is* a directory 10:33:48 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.73.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:35:49 thx fusss, H4ns``` hello, do you know ho can I avoid ot sure what it means exactly, I have M-. into it a few times and found out hunchentoot was doing I/O on closed sockets ? 10:36:36 this happens after fewe seconds the request has been processed. 10:36:43 thesaskwatch: which lisp did you finally pick? 10:36:44 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:55 sbcl 10:37:10 + quicklisp 10:37:17 good choice 10:37:34 how are you trying to launch slime? 10:37:44 but I'm little confused 10:38:13 does using quicklisp stop me from using asdf? 10:38:36 I seem to be using both 10:38:52 it doesn't; quicklisp uses asdf itself 10:39:14 that makes me feel better ;) 10:39:59 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:40:05 thesaskwatch: are you able to fire up lisp from the command-line? 10:40:12 yes 10:40:15 I did enter 10:40:27 (require 'asdf) 10:40:27 (push "/home/mateusz/systems" asdf:*central-registry*) 10:40:27 into .sbcl 10:40:30 (even without slime, Emacs is perfectly usable for Common Lisp) 10:40:43 thesaskwatch: put / at the end of systems: 10:40:57 (push #P"/home/mateusz/systems/" asdf:*central-registry*) 10:41:06 ok 10:41:35 no error now :) 10:41:37 if you're not sure if a variable that is used for building pathnames needs a final / , just evaluate it. 10:42:00 thesaskwatch: remember, asdf:*central-registry* is just another symbol (variable); type it in the repl and see what's there 10:42:27 yes, I know it .. I didn't know there needs to be slash at the end of path 10:42:37 is it standard in lisp? 10:43:05 Lisp has its own way of building pathnames 10:43:21 good to know 10:43:30 but all Lisps understanding plain strings as pathnames, host path delimeters, permissions, etc. 10:43:50 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 10:44:04 thesaskwatch: if you want to play with files and directories, get CL-FAD; (ql:quick-load :cl-fad) should do :-) 10:44:57 I feel like total newbie here :) 10:45:11 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:17 it's strange feeling after being a programmer for few years 10:45:18 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 10:45:44 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 10:45:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:46:05 thesaskwatch: it's good to be challenged and kept on the edge. I am supposed to be learning python for work, I am implementing generators in lisp ;-) 10:46:51 I should be learning ruby on rails for work, but I'm too lazy and I prefer lisp ;) 10:47:36 for 2012 I want to learn haskell 10:47:45 2010 was year of scala 10:48:44 thesaskwatch: you can learn 2-3 of those in a few if you have a few of the formal models under your belt 10:49:23 unfortunately I'm self taught, and I don't like math that much :) 10:49:53 but maybe I'll try it at some time if I decide it will be worth it 10:50:06 nearly everyone I know is self-taught, even the phds 10:51:26 pity that vim has worse lisp support ;) 10:52:22 yeah, vim, can't believe I was a rabid fan of it 10:53:15 I like emacs too, but I don't like to practise my fingers that much 10:53:53 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:56:15 ok, I was able to launch slime in emacs 10:57:05 thesaskwatch: cool, learn how to split the screen and move between buffers and how to visit files 10:57:12 ... 10:57:21 I have been using emacs for few years :) 10:57:30 oh, sorry then :-) 10:57:50 what was the name of the book you recommended? 10:57:56 about common lisp 10:58:27 probablp practical common lisp by peter seibel 10:58:52 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@host-95-192-121-54.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 10:59:00 thank you :) 10:59:11 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:03:23 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:07 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:07:56 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:08:57 timor [~timor@port-92-195-21-156.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:09:27 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 11:10:38 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-36-7-159.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:12:36 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:12:55 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:14:51 sacho [~sacho@79-100-55-69.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 11:17:17 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:17:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:18:25 -!- thesaskwatch [~mateusz@77-254-128-214.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:09 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-199.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22:39 -!- fusss [~fusss@110.141.103.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:23:26 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:14 Bronsa [~brace@host132-182-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:30:55 newbie question: it seems like, for instance, (push obj place) is equivalent to (setf place (cons obj place). Is there some function like push_back so that (push_back obj place) would be equivalent to (setf place (append place (list obj))) ? 11:30:56 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-218-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:31:36 <_3b> alexandria:appendf? 11:31:46 No function, but (nconcf place (list obj)) 11:31:57 or appendf yes. 11:32:09 But you should not do that often. 11:32:11 <_3b> actually, i guess appendf doesn't wrap the arg in a list though 11:32:21 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:32:24 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:33:21 appendf? that's no the hyperspec is it? 11:33:24 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:35 algal: that is, if you have to do it often, it would be better to start by reverse, do the push-es and eventually reverse. 11:33:56 algal: it's given in the hyperspec as an example of define-modify-macro. 11:34:04 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:35:00 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-199.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:37:03 hmm, same story with nconcf, right? 11:37:12 yes. 11:37:31 <_3b> both are defined by alexandria as well 11:37:35 Are appendf and noncf so frequently defined by define-modify-macro that they are seen often and de-facto standard functions? 11:37:46 is alexandria a standard utilities library? 11:37:52 They are NOT functions! 11:38:00 pjb: sorry, macros. 11:38:12 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 11:38:19 (Was thinking alexandria was another channel user whose name started with al at first..) 11:38:22 <_3b> hopefully it can be a de-facto standard at some point 11:38:25 algal: I think they are rarely used 11:38:33 algal: you may use 'operator' as generic term. 11:38:38 spacebat: k 11:38:40 pjb: thx. 11:39:08 <_3b> but as mentioned before, if you want to add more than 1 or 2 items, they are a bad idea 11:39:25 <_3b> appendf/nconcf that is. not alexandria in general 11:39:45 -!- Landr [~vser@94-226-250-79.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:51 An alternative is to keep around a reference to the last cons cell (using the function LAST once), and then adding cons cells to it. 11:39:51 <_3b> since they need to walk the entire list every time, building a list from the end is O(N^2) 11:39:54 algal: if you want to build a list by appending to the end, its idiomatic to do so with push or setf/cons and then reverse at the end 11:40:26 but if you want to append items every now and then, what pjb said 11:40:39 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:43 <_3b> building from the front and reversing is O(N), keeping track of the current end by hand and adding directly is also O(N), possibly faster than reversing 11:42:09 <_3b> or you can use an adjustable vector and vector-push-extend, which should also be O(N) 11:42:15 ok. thanks. 11:42:22 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:44:01 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:44:15 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-199.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:11 -!- flyfish [~liuguangz@61.50.131.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:45:37 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-142.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:46:28 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:49:34 -!- mascotte [p.scott@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-10-193.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 11:51:10 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:56:12 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:52 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:03:23 zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:25 who has a favorite xml package? 12:04:56 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:05:01 <_3b> cxml seems popular 12:05:19 So far my xml needs haven't overwhelmed xmls. 12:06:59 the simpler the better 12:07:57 regexps? 12:08:10 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 12:09:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:39 Modius: did you find pseudoscheme again? 12:11:28 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.176.30] has joined #lisp 12:11:30 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:13:03 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:14:22 xinming [~hyy@115.221.3.117] has joined #lisp 12:14:27 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 12:14:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 12:14:27 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:14:57 k9quaint: cxml is what I use, the why of it is mostly because that is the first thing I found. 12:16:17 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:17:36 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@115.221.37.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:20:32 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:20:59 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:22:30 <_8david> I think there are better reasons to use one library over the other than just the order in which one finds them. 12:23:13 does anyone use ITERATE instead of LOOP ? Just trying to get a sense of its value, fashionability, best-practiceyness, etc... 12:24:28 *_3b* suspects it is more popular with end application developers than library developers 12:24:37 algal: 50 or so systems in quicklisp depend on iterate directly 12:25:24 Okay, interesting... 12:25:26 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:25:41 algal: it comes with different aesthetical tradeoffs (on the one hand, its surface syntax is lispier. on the other hand, it walks you code -- many people don't like that on principle) 12:25:43 <_8david> ITERATE is increasing in fashionability lately. Or if it isn't, I'm at least working on spreading this self-fulfilling prophecy. 12:26:38 cmm: why don't people like that it walks your code? 12:26:55 anyway, prettifying loops doesn't seem very important to me, but ymmv 12:27:00 <_3b> code walkers don't always compose well 12:27:12 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:27:52 *_3b* actually prefers LOOP syntax, but iterate has some nice features that LOOP lacks 12:27:57 -!- sellout__ [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:28:02 also, codewalking is an overkill when you could do without it (iterate as it is specified now cannot, but it could have been specified differently) 12:28:15 <_3b> not enough that i'd actually add an extra dependency to a lib i was working on though 12:29:24 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 12:29:36 <_8david> Every time you write a LOOP and have to work your way around not being able to use LET, god kills... well, something somewhere. At least yet another bit of your productivy and your sense of lisp style. 12:30:55 <_8david> algal: two reasons, I suspect. One reason is that code walkers don't compose (in general), meaning that in theory you might occasionally hit code walking problems when you're also using another fancy macro is the same function (even though you don't usually have problems like this very often in reality). 12:31:58 <_8david> The other reason is that ITERATE's code walker isn't the most modern -- which is why attila has recently started a rewrite based on an even better code walker. (Personally I haven't had problems with classic iterate myself, so haven't yet felt a need to upgrade to REITERATE.) 12:32:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:37 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:32:52 -!- lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-175-101-96.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:57 reiterate still needs more polishing, but it's already much better in several aspects 12:33:09 _8david: interesting. So the composability problem is not just a possible performance penalty due to composed maco expansion producing something obfuscated and non-performant. There's also a (theoretical) possibility the composition will produce wrong behaviour? 12:34:40 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:34:53 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 12:35:16 *_3b* suspects it is more commonly 'not even compile' than 'wrong behaviour' 12:35:33 <_8david> I don't think code walkers introduce a performance penalty as such. Some of them might, but that's not because they are code walkers, it's because their goal is to do something insane in the first place. (For example, call/cc emulation.) 12:38:05 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:39 if I had a month with nothing to do, I might try to come up with an iterate analogue that doesn't need a full walker, something syntactically along the lines of cl-who perhaps 12:39:00 *_3b* notes that cl-who is a code walker :p 12:39:38 _3b: yes, but very limited and well-specified :) 12:40:15 or that's my recollection thereof, anyway 12:40:17 can you get away with local functions/macros? 12:40:37 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:40:37 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 12:40:37 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 12:40:54 stassats: that would be the idea. but you cannot implement the current iterate syntax this way 12:41:05 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-152-12.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 12:41:38 <_3b> not even with symbol-macrolet+macroexpand tricks? 12:42:00 in any case, i like LOOP 12:42:26 _3b: I'd be surprised, but then I'm perfectly willing to be surprised in this case :) 12:42:39 -!- sacho [~sacho@79-100-55-69.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:43:12 it would be interesting to see an improved LOOP 12:43:39 sacho [~sacho@79-100-55-69.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 12:44:13 is sicl's loop easily extensible? 12:45:09 Sorry for repeating myself but is there a way to get some patch into ht-simple-ajax? 12:45:48 what i'd like to see is saner iteration over hash-tables and packages, iteration over sequences, multiple-values 12:46:19 naryl: contact the author? 12:46:55 <_3b> yeah, sequence iteration would be nice, also minimize/maximize by key 12:47:01 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:29 <_3b> maybe collect etc. into an outer loop 12:47:29 ...which iterate does have 12:47:34 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:47:43 <_3b> right, iterate feature partity in general :) 12:47:49 <_3b> *parity 12:48:14 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:48:19 that's what i meant, yes 12:48:30 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-135-138.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:48:34 sbcl has iteration over sequences 12:48:34 <_3b> easier to use LOOP in general, and pull in an extra package for the few times it justifies the extra features, than to mostly use LOOP and switch to ITERATE for the odd cases 12:48:35 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:48:36 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:49:04 <_3b> stassats: yeah, but that only helps if there is a portable version too, since i mostly want portable code 12:50:55 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 12:52:02 CrazyEddy [~impassabl@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 12:52:16 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:52:19 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-167-36.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:34 adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:01 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:55:34 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:55:37 jdz [~jdz@host20-69-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:55:38 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:55:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 12:57:07 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 12:57:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 12:57:07 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:57:30 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-109-161.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:01:24 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 13:01:28 reiterate even have a general construct (in some-loop's-name ...) 13:04:47 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002dac.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:35 Well, I don't know about the htc, but the nexus s can emulate a playstation in real-time. 13:06:50 So phones are getting some serious grunt, these days. 13:07:03 *Xach* waits for the jak & dexter connection 13:07:14 I suspect that between android phones and android televisions, the days of the PC are few remaining. 13:08:20 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:12:40 -!- qsun_ [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:13:04 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:13:27 qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has joined #lisp 13:13:42 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:15:16 Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has joined #lisp 13:15:22 bah, and I was just contemplating a notebook upgrade! 13:16:19 what's the use, sbcl still can't run on ARM 13:16:46 only CCL somewhat can (i don't count ecl, clisp, etc.) 13:16:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 13:17:10 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 13:17:32 -!- rafl [rafl@goatse.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 13:18:08 zhivago: Nesus One could emulate PS1 with playable speed 13:18:25 and that was with rather sucky GPU, compared to Nexus S 13:18:40 Yeah, anyhow, the point is that at this point telephones are pretty bloody powerful. 13:18:43 (Nexus S and Galaxy S have the strongest GPU currently on market) 13:19:10 PCs aren't standing still either 13:19:14 zhivago: true. But they lack in other areas. I can see Honeycomb-based tablets replacing PCs in certain kinds of tasks, though 13:19:47 p_l: The areas they lack in, televisions don't. :) 13:20:56 zhivago: the televisions lack them as well... I can see an android tablet replacing my laptop, but then I'd need to grab a powerful desktop machine with good network access 13:21:46 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.39] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 13:22:00 Still, Honeycomb's UI APIs are sweet enough that I'm imitating them in my project :D 13:22:03 ~brb 13:22:16 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.39] has joined #lisp 13:23:03 p_l: What lack do you refer to, then? 13:23:28 "Smartphones: bringing `slow' back to Lisp." 13:23:43 Well, with native code support ... 13:24:08 Although, these days I've been getting into android development via javascript. 13:24:29 I'm starting to see why clojure took off. 13:24:39 Java is really nice when you take the language out. 13:25:04 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:25:36 I just hope that OBBs allow for virtual file-systems properly so that transparent s3 access can materialize. 13:27:15 sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:27:37 -!- srijan4 [~srijan4@202.78.175.199] has left #lisp 13:28:19 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 13:28:31 and battery life is an issue too 13:30:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:31:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:56 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm15.delta176.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:33:23 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:33:37 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 13:33:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 13:33:37 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:35:34 -!- Atomsk is now known as ace4016 13:36:10 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:37:30 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 13:37:51 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:38:49 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[~M-sprite@218.74.190.129] has quit [Quit: I need to code or sleep now .] 14:56:58 M-sprite [~M-sprite@218.74.190.129] has joined #lisp 14:59:53 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@218.74.190.129] has quit [Client Quit] 15:00:46 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:01:04 -!- kbdvdr [~co1n@210-89-227-75.ap-w02.canvas.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:01:18 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:35 pathnames are driving me nuts 15:01:58 How do I do create a pathname based on a directory in my home dir 15:02:00 I'm using 15:02:20 (make-pathname :directory (list :relative (namestring (user-homedir-pathname)) ".photons")) 15:02:26 that doesn't seem to be it 15:02:29 M-sprite [~M-sprite@218.74.190.129] has joined #lisp 15:05:45 ah..got.it 15:05:48 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@218.74.190.129] has quit [Client Quit] 15:08:01 merge-pathnames? :) 15:09:28 xinming_ [~hyy@115.221.11.239] has joined #lisp 15:10:59 M-sprite [~M-sprite@218.74.190.129] has joined #lisp 15:11:53 any ideas against "Output file /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site/elephant/libmemutil.so not found in elephant root" 15:11:59 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 15:12:17 i am obviously firing up elephant and the c libraries are not built. 15:12:24 cmm: yep 15:12:40 just looked it up in the quicklisp sources 15:12:42 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:06 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.79.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:14:07 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:15:32 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:15:36 using strings for pathnames is underrated 15:19:33 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:10 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-209-242.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 15:21:12 Why not search the market? 15:26:20 If (destructuring-bind (a &rest b) (cons 'va 'vb) (list a b)) => (VA VB) then shouldn't (destructuring-bind (&rest b) 'vb) => VB ? On SBCL the former behaves as expected but I get an error for the latter: "The value VB is not of type LIST." 15:26:27 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-148-200.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:38 G'morning all. 15:26:50 beach: You here? 15:27:07 hi nyef 15:28:31 <_3b> Hexstream: error sounds reasonable to me 15:29:48 _3b: An error for the latter case while the former case works sounds inconsistent to me. 15:30:49 Hexstream: it's not. the symbol VB is not a cons 15:32:02 fe[nl]ix: It wasn't in the former case either. But the same part of the pattern behaved differently even though the data available for the part of the pattern is the same. 15:32:40 Why not just uninstall it? 15:33:50 <_3b> zhivago: are you talking to someone in another channel or something? 15:33:52 Hexstream: in the former case the expression to be destructured is a list, in the latter case it's not 15:34:42 clhs destructuring-bind 15:34:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_destru.htm 15:35:10 Expression must be a form, not necessarily a list. If they required a list I'm pretty sure they'd have written that. 15:35:35 Hexstream: the CLHS is a bit unclear, but it does require a list 15:35:49 "destructuring-bind binds the variables specified in lambda-list to the corresponding values in the tree structure resulting from the evaluation of expression" 15:35:55 «tree structure» 15:36:21 fe[nl]ix: Yes, I checked the definition of "tree structure" right now. 15:37:43 So, yeah. It's just a case of unclear CLHS. Thanks for the help. 15:38:36 <_3b> also, 3.4.4 implies the first case (a &rest b matching (foo . bar)) is a special case 15:40:17 _3b: Well, where specifically? 15:40:31 <_3b> last paragraph 15:41:46 Well, VB is not considered a dotted list so I don't think that really applies... 15:42:14 <_3b> right, i mean it applies to (cons 'va 'vb) 15:42:19 <_3b> but not really t just 'vb 15:43:24 Oh, you meant that it mentions the cons case put not the atom case... But really it just seems like a case of vagueness that wasn't fully thought out. 15:43:36 <_3b> could be 15:48:28 I also sometimes wish (destructuring-bind var my-expression) would just act like a LET, for the benefit of macros and of consistency with variable names in embedded destructuring patterns. 15:50:22 -!- fmu [UNKNOWN@an9iex1i.u10r.net] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 15:53:32 fmu [UNKNOWN@an9iex1i.u10r.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:37 -!- fmu [UNKNOWN@an9iex1i.u10r.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:53:37 fmu [UNKNOWN@unaffiliated/fmu] has joined #lisp 16:00:17 mascotte [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-10-193.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:00:45 -!- fmu [UNKNOWN@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 16:04:26 fmu [UNKNOWN@unaffiliated/fmu] has joined #lisp 16:04:27 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.218.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:59 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 16:08:04 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:18 -!- zhivago is now known as Zhivago 16:10:56 davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:19 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:46 OK, my elephant problem is resolved. :) 16:15:04 -!- maxigas [~user@dsl51B653EC.pool.t-online.hu] has left #lisp 16:18:20 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:14 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:21:18 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:24:46 preferred domain registrar? 16:27:16 sellout: I've found gandi.net's not bad. But my main criterion is clear UI so I don't break DNS records by mistake. I'm sure there are cheaper. 16:28:16 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 16:28:50 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:26 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 16:29:58 azaq231 [~derivecto@p4FF682C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:30:13 -!- azaq231 [~derivecto@p4FF682C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 16:30:13 azaq231 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 16:32:15 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:34:57 francogrex [~user@109.130.118.151] has joined #lisp 16:35:50 mk2 [~user@159.92.65.64] has joined #lisp 16:37:10 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 16:38:21 -!- tank_eev [~vel@188.242.73.239] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:39:27 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:40:30 tmokros [~tmokros@ip68-106-151-191.cl.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:59 fusss [~fusss@1.152.29.212] has joined #lisp 16:41:45 I am out of ideas on this; how do I let a structure accessor read/write another slot in the same structure? 16:42:14 I am kinda wishing for a self/this pointer 16:43:06 fusss: What are you trying to do? 16:43:20 well, the accessort is called with an object as an argument 16:43:58 what I am trying to do is reflect the value of a captured closure variable thusly: 16:44:25 I'm not understanding the question: Structure slot accessors are auto-generated by DEFSTRUCT in the first place. For anything more complex, you need to define your own accessors manually, and at that point you have the struct instance as one of the parameters. 16:45:37 (let ((watch-me ..)) (make-structure :slot1 val1 :slot2 val2)) is it possible for the accessor of either slot to peek at the value of WATCH-ME? 16:45:56 fusss: define your own accessor and do what you want in them. 16:47:03 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-127-15.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 16:47:27 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:49:34 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.118.151] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:51:27 http://paste.lisp.org/display/119189 16:51:46 that's supposed to be like the python enumerate builtin function 16:51:59 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-127-15.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:31 so far it does the right thing 16:53:07 but since it uses a hash-table to keep track of sequences, it wastes memory eventually 16:53:21 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:53:59 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 16:54:23 I want to introduce some sort of GC functionality, and had two ideas: use timestamp and index by (sxhash `(,key ,(get-universal-time))) 16:55:02 what's that supposed to do? 16:55:36 or, put the position within the sequence in the enumerate structure; then pos=-1 means never read, pos=len already read 16:56:27 pkhuong: with one function (enumerate "foo") ==> (0 #\F), then again (enumerate "foo") ==> (1 #\o) cycles through a sequence returning (index val) pairs 16:56:45 varjag_ [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:57:24 and what's with the hash table? 16:57:48 so, eventually, (iter (index letter) in (enumerate "hi") collecting (cons index letter)) ==> ((0 . #\h)(1 . #\i)) 16:58:10 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58:45 the hash-table maps sequences to their ENUMERATOR structures; so you can use just one function call, instead of (enumerate "foo")(next) 16:58:59 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:15 -!- leo2007 [~leo@117.28.18.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:54 pkhuong: consecutive calls to the same function with the same argument might return different results (unless the input string is a repetition) 17:00:51 both java and python expose that NEXT function, this one doesn't; and with ITERATE being extensible .. actually 17:01:08 aren't there SERIES and gatherers something? brb 17:01:48 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 17:02:17 thought so; even the gatherers from cltl2 expose NEXT 17:02:37 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:12 fusss: are you sure about that iter snippet? 17:03:56 stassats: I said "eventually" stassats 17:04:03 i don't know about iterate, but LOOP evaluates IN only once 17:04:38 an equal hash table definitely doesn't make sense here. 17:04:41 so it would be (loop for (index letter) = (enumerate "hi")) 17:05:05 anyway, i don't see a utility in such construct 17:05:18 pkhuong: what do you recommend? re: hash-table-test? 17:05:31 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:33 -!- varjag_ [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:06:08 I had a two-level hash-table earlier when it iterated over sequences, hash-tables and packages; but I had to scale down to minimize confusion 17:07:12 something like ENUMERATOR can be used to a cross section of useful pair from an information bucket/stream; imagine getting (path . size) pairs from a directory listing, or similar 17:07:24 ^used to generate 17:07:57 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.151.222] has joined #lisp 17:08:24 perhaps it can be, bu can't you use already existing functionality? 17:08:28 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:10 <_3b> single function to create an interator and advance it sounds like an annoying api 17:10:08 <_3b> for example, what happens when you want to iterate over 2 sequences in parallel, without knowing in advance that they aren't the same 17:10:43 _3b: I had that nasty one earlier 17:12:07 *_3b* supposes it could be a macro that expands into something unique for every call site or something, but that seems to be going a bit far 17:12:47 to be honest, it's 4:15AM and the coffee is wearing off 17:12:50 <_3b> actually, i guess that would still break on parallel or nested calls and such 17:13:39 I just can't seem to be able to learn python without wanting to reimplement bits of it in cl 17:13:50 <_3b> didn't someone already do that? 17:14:26 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 17:14:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:39 _3b: someone did it, and I am averting my gaze 17:15:56 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 17:15:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 17:15:56 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:16:16 I just re-learned huge chunks of Algol very enthusiastically; but python bores the crap out of me. uncany valley? 17:16:48 *_3b* hasn't even looked at it in years 17:17:04 fusss: at the very least EQL. 17:17:05 before tonight, last I touched python was 2001 17:17:40 I don't see how not passing the enumerator explicitly is a good thing though. 17:17:54 What happens if two functions try to iterate through the same string? 17:17:57 random collisions? 17:19:17 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002dac.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:33 pkhuong: that they would share a position .. it's turning out to be a bad idea over all. 17:23:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:27 -!- mk2 [~user@159.92.65.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:45 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:25:20 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17:59:19 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-53-131.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 18:01:59 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-142.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:05:01 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:05:52 carlocci [~nes@93.37.197.202] has joined #lisp 18:09:21 -!- mascotte [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-10-193.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 18:10:08 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:14:06 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:14:44 alinrus [~alinrus@188.24.43.221] has joined #lisp 18:23:27 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:25:01 -!- alinrus [~alinrus@188.24.43.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:44 *p_l|backup* wishes LinJ was more readable :/ 18:27:53 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-218-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:32:26 -!- pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33:05 pattern [~pattern@ool-45715287.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:00 opoku_ [~opoku@128.237.141.123] has joined #lisp 18:37:45 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 18:39:28 -!- opoku [~opoku@static-96-235-41-86.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:39:28 -!- opoku_ is now known as opoku 18:40:16 p_l|backup: the source or the generated code? 18:40:39 adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:53 -!- pattern [~pattern@ool-45715287.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:40:53 pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has joined #lisp 18:42:50 -!- c|mell [~cmell@175.106.62.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:03 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:06 pnq [~nick@AC816E7F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 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[~kdas@114.143.160.146] has quit [Changing host] 19:00:45 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 19:00:59 leo2007 [~leo@125.78.160.94] has joined #lisp 19:02:00 opoku_ [~opoku@static-96-235-41-86.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:21 -!- Dranik [~dim@178.154.25.190] has left #lisp 19:05:07 -!- opoku [~opoku@128.237.141.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:05:07 -!- opoku_ is now known as opoku 19:07:13 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.151.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:23 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:36 vser [~vser@78-22-154-231.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:14:53 -!- vser is now known as Landr 19:17:01 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:18:26 fusss: the source 19:18:35 I was looking for a way to add generics support 19:19:05 what is the name of that fancy data explorer program that clozure worked on? 19:20:11 aha. inspiredata. 19:20:39 -!- fusss [~fusss@1.152.29.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:20:54 btw, has anyone here used ECL's EQL (that is, native ECL Qt4.5+ binding?) 19:21:41 Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:22:13 -!- Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:22:33 Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:31 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:50 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-246-208.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:26:08 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:26:18 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-209-242.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:32:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 19:33:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:35:24 francogrex [~user@109.130.118.151] has joined #lisp 19:36:42 ch077179 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has joined #lisp 20:10:15 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:13:41 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.29] has quit [Quit: Offline] 20:14:03 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 20:16:02 zmv [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 20:16:43 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012d82.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:17:38 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@beting-proceeds.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:40 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.99.177] has joined #lisp 20:19:52 EarlGray [~dmytrish@beting-proceeds.volia.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:09 hugod_ [~hugod@76.66.188.24] has joined #lisp 20:21:01 -!- pnq [~nick@AC816E7F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:22:20 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:23:15 i've got another silly beginner's question about this program: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/329403/ 20:23:25 when i run my function as (num-sum 3) why does it print "Enter the number: " three times on the same line? and why does it do so *after* i've entered all the numbers? 20:24:07 clhs force-output 20:24:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_finish.htm 20:24:23 thank you 20:31:31 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@211.58.112.85] has joined #lisp 20:32:44 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:33:32 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@211.58.112.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:36 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:34:56 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:04 Guest89536 [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:49 I just finished my first common lisp program :) 20:37:59 Guest89536: congrats! 20:38:55 but can a program be ever finished? 20:39:07 not really 20:39:31 Guest89536 just finished version 1.0 :P 20:39:37 hehe. indeed. the next step to becoming a lisp pro. 20:42:13 it simulates a population under heavy selection pressure and shows how quickly it acts on alleles with different levels of dominance 20:44:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-146-117.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:45:41 Guest89536: which algorithm? is it published? 20:47:27 I don't know about any algorythms so probably not 20:48:17 paste it for us to take a look :) 20:48:20 The next step is to post it in here and have folks shred it 20:48:39 s/shread it/help you make it better/ 20:48:49 rofl 20:49:35 ok 20:50:57 let me remove the embaressing commments 20:51:03 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:27 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:51:50 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:51:58 there is nothing that will be embarrasing; you are new... embarassing would be me making silly comments and errors after > 1 year 20:54:00 Perhaps he made comments about how his girlfriend left him as he descended deeper into nerddom and learned Lisp 20:54:11 That'd be embarrasing. 20:54:20 well then... indeed it would :) 20:54:36 no she left for work 20:54:45 haha 20:54:54 lmao 20:54:54 Guest89536 pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119196 20:55:24 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:34 brodo [~brodo@p5B0254B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:46 each block of #s is a histogram 20:56:15 Guest89536: that use of SETF is not standard 20:56:15 it's a summary of the alleles in the population 20:56:20 ok 20:56:28 which use 20:56:30 at the first lines I mean 20:56:38 Guest89536: DEFPARAMETER 20:57:39 thanks 20:57:46 but at first look it doesn't look like a bad code (especially for a beginner) 20:58:44 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:02:05 the part that most concerns me is the function "status" 21:03:13 it makes two vectors one of the beneficial alleles and one of the deleterious alleles 21:03:21 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:05:26 Guest89536: histogram is a vector, so (array-dimension histogram 0) => (length histogram) 21:05:45 lose PROGN inside defun 21:05:54 (floor (/ x 100)) => (floor x 100) 21:06:08 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 21:06:30 thanks 21:06:32 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-092-073-073-135.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 21:06:46 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:15 and there is no need to declare types 21:07:32 and learn LOOP 21:07:38 stassats`: that's the problem 21:07:42 kaelol [~b@c-f0cbe253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:07:52 Posterdati: what is? 21:08:00 ? 21:08:09 stassats`: no types for little lispers 21:08:27 Posterdati: i don't understand what you're talking about 21:08:47 stassats`: oh forget it 21:09:02 stassats`: you told "and there is no need to declare types" 21:09:23 i don't remember saying this! 21:09:31 lol 21:09:48 11 lines ago 21:10:09 but you told me to forget it, so i did 21:10:20 good 21:10:25 good one 21:10:31 so no problem at all 21:10:56 stassats`: alas my problems are there 21:11:24 none at all, but one still shouldn't declare types just for kicks 21:11:31 stassats`: for example I solved the non-blocking input/output 21:12:09 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 21:12:15 Hello 21:12:19 stassats`: but I could not get serial port input, actually I'm able to get only 2 bytes ;) lol 21:12:43 that's sad 21:12:54 hello kami` 21:15:20 Does the list-form of a dolist support destructuring? This is illegal: (dolist ((name . value) headers) ...) isn't it? 21:15:27 no 21:15:40 and yes 21:15:49 stassats`: there aren't anymore the good serial port of long ago!!! 21:15:49 stassats`: thank you 21:15:59 (no, it's not supported; yes, it's illegal) 21:16:11 stassats`: yes, I got you. Thanks. :) 21:17:12 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:15 Posterdati: my computer has a serial port 21:17:31 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.118.151] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:33 -!- kami` is now known as kami 21:17:42 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:18:12 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 21:18:24 i used it to control TV, with Lisp 21:19:24 does anybody know of a 'destructing dolist' in any of the commonly used packages (e.g. alexandria, iterate) 21:19:43 LOOP 21:20:07 loop is scary 21:20:07 (loop for (name . value) in headers ...) 21:20:30 Why is LOOP scary? 21:20:42 stassats`: mine too 21:20:47 because everything you don't know is scary 21:20:52 because I haven't used it yet 21:21:05 it's called "xenophobia" 21:21:11 stassats`: but on most recent PCs there aren't serial port anymore 21:21:25 lol stassats` 21:21:43 loop is cool 21:21:46 Posterdati: it's called USB these days. Similarly dumb, even 21:21:47 lol 21:22:24 p_l|backup: yes, but instrument on the other end has got a serial port :) so we use usb adapter 21:22:43 stassats`: thank you. I was just wondering whether there might be some macro with a similar name, because I found that in code written by experienced lisp hackers. 21:23:08 Lots of mobos still come with PS/2 which is serial 21:23:33 let's talk about loop 21:23:39 the question is 21:23:46 loop is cool? 21:23:50 is loop cool? 21:23:58 cool loop is? 21:24:07 let's be less silly 21:24:36 WHEN I'd like to be silly I'll tell you 21:25:36 loops are dangerous especially for cows 21:26:57 on the contrary they are vital for car engine 21:27:10 please, stop this 21:27:13 that's why LOOP is scaring 21:36:15 -!- gz [Clozure@1D0204C9.201D93C4.C2B6E0DC.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 21:39:51 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:41:36 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:43:38 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:46:33 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:46:36 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:46:42 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:47:19 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 21:48:57 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:44 Guest89536: have you got a lisp book? 21:49:58 several 21:50:04 online of course 21:50:25 try gigamonkey's one or "land of lisp" 21:50:34 they're cheap 21:50:44 ok 21:50:56 Practical Common Lisp is in html version too 21:51:03 I've read that one 21:51:17 and successful lisp 21:51:29 and take a copy of "Common Lisp: the language" from Guy Steele as reference 21:51:43 the library has that one 21:51:51 I'm finishing "Practical Common Lisp" 21:52:09 I'm learning lisp too 21:52:45 one never stops learning Lisp 21:52:59 *Wraithan* isn't really using books right now 21:53:04 I've just started reading Land of Lisp 21:53:07 and it's a totally different thing, it is a language very fond in mathematics 21:53:19 just find stuff I need and write it, using google heavily along the way 21:53:28 stassats`: that's the way Lisp is unique 21:53:30 lisp fond in mathematics? how is that? 21:53:53 lambda calculus 21:54:22 collections handling 21:54:28 symbolic computation 21:54:28 Common Lisp is not based on lambda calculus 21:54:41 not based, but it comprehend it 21:55:07 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:21 any modern programming language can do lambda calculus 21:55:49 c? 21:55:51 c++? 21:55:54 assembler? 21:55:55 pascal? 21:56:10 modern? 21:56:13 they can too, although i said "modern" 21:56:39 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:00:27 assembler isn't exactly a language, IMHO... :P 22:00:40 haskell, java? 22:01:00 surely haskell is more mathematically grounded than common lisp? 22:03:37 "let's pretend lisp is unique so that we can feel superior towards people not using lisp 22:03:41 " 22:04:21 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:04:56 -!- fnordus [~dnall@S01060023693bfad4.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:25 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B0254B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 22:09:51 Lisp is unique, just like everything else. 22:10:13 haha I like that 22:10:31 stassats`: nobody told that 22:10:39 nyef: then it's not unique in being unique 22:11:16 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:25 nyef: well I don't agree, take pascal or c then 22:11:49 nyef: they've got similarities 22:12:00 Posterdati: They also have differences. 22:12:10 pascal and lisp have similarities too 22:12:21 stassats`: Yes. As a rule, every rule has an exception, including this one. 22:12:34 nyef: you can neglect them 22:13:11 *stassats`* neglects C and Pascal 22:14:01 I think that talking about programming languages is a bit like talking about OSes 22:14:48 Good morning everyone! 22:15:04 yo 22:15:13 unique morning! 22:15:15 Hello beach. 22:15:28 but I found more kindness in this channel that in other languages channels :) 22:15:50 it count as difference 22:15:54 beach: JFTR, I dug up my syscall research this morning, and I hadn't gotten quite so far as I had remembered. 22:16:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:16:42 No actual VOPs, but a breakdown of what methods are available for invoking a syscall on both x86 and x86-64. 22:17:02 nyef: linux syscall? 22:17:11 Posterdati: Yeah, linux syscall. 22:17:15 nyef: Is this documented somewhere? 22:17:46 nyef: I'm using a bunch of syscall to do my job :) (in lisp I hope) 22:17:56 beach: My working notes aren't online, if that's what you're asking. 22:22:10 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:07 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 22:26:19 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 22:27:03 -!- xvilka [~xvilka@109.170.106.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:27 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:59 nyef: I'd like to ask you something when you'll be not busy 22:28:10 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:37 Posterdati: I'm mostly-idle right now. What's up? 22:30:23 I did two program: the c program captures the input from a serial port... The other program is written in Lisp and it's using same syscall to setup port and so on... 22:30:50 poorman [~poorman@98.124.121.179] has joined #lisp 22:31:10 nyef: but Lisp program loose characters from serial input :) 22:31:34 nyef: I tried to compile it, but same result 22:32:39 Hrm. 22:32:55 Too many possible variables to quantify. 22:33:08 yes I know 22:33:15 It's just the odd character you're losing? 22:33:46 nyef: I receive only the first two or three byte from the serial port, then nothing 22:33:51 Are you using lisp streams, or going straight to the syscalls to read? 22:34:13 sb-unix:unix-read and sb-unix:unix-write 22:34:19 Were you doing non-blocking I/O, and if so what are you using for a multiplexer? 22:35:24 nyef: I did threads for receiving 22:35:28 If you're using non-blocking I/O, can you set up a simple, blocking version just to test with? 22:35:31 nyef: and sending 22:35:40 nyef: I did, same problem 22:36:13 You're using threads? Have you checked for synchronization issues? Are you responding correctly if the syscall returns EINTR? 22:36:15 nyef: receiving loops until the number of characters are received 22:36:47 nyef: same as c I hope 22:37:20 nyef: it has to be an error in the code 22:37:44 nyef: now I'm testing a non threaded version 22:37:50 Hrm. 22:38:18 I'm running out of things to suggest without being able to look at the code. 22:38:29 nyef: yes, I know 22:38:42 You might desk-check the lisp version against the C version to make sure the logic actually is the same. 22:38:42 nyef: but please, may I bother you tomorrow? 22:39:04 nyef: I suspect a defective serial port setup routine 22:39:09 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:28 nyef: I'll show you the code tomorrow 22:39:32 faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:39:39 nyef: if you want 22:39:41 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:00 nyef: I hope it won't hurt you 22:41:04 you could also just paste the code somewhere and get a bigger audience 22:41:53 yes I know, but now I've to go, I'd prefer to paste the code tomorrow :) 22:42:01 it's a bit late for me now :) 22:42:06 nyef: Too bad. Is your plan to clean them up and publish them eventually? 22:42:31 nyef: thanks see you later :) 22:42:41 bye people 22:42:44 and thanks 22:42:48 bye Posterdati 22:45:46 beach: I could if you'd like, but they're pretty basic. 22:46:00 Posterdati: Have a good evening, then. 22:48:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-146-117.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:51 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:14 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:57:45 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-21-156.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:59 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 23:03:22 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:03:49 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 23:05:27 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:59 -!- mascotte [mascotte__@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-10-193.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 23:11:25 -!- Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:13:49 -!- faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:10 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:16:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-2-37.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 23:18:08 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-135-138.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:28 -!- poorman [~poorman@98.124.121.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:22:35 -!- sacho [~sacho@79-100-55-69.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:40 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:25 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 23:31:15 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 23:33:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:34:15 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:34:56 -!- Landr [~vser@78-22-154-231.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:56 nyef: No rush, but at some point I might start thinking about such things again, and then I might pester you, if that's OK with you. 23:37:14 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:25 psilord2 [~psilord@adsl-99-153-135-105.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:28 -!- psilord2 [~psilord@adsl-99-153-135-105.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 23:38:02 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:38:55 beach: That's fine. 23:39:36 -!- cOOLz [snacoolz@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-rmwxntyoseuvuhbk] has quit [K-Lined] 23:40:30 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 23:46:49 fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-232-86.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp