00:00:07 pjb: do you happen to recall the cll thread title? 00:00:33 Sorry, I don't. But googlegroups advanced search should prove useful. 00:01:05 ok thanks. Plowing through spam :) 00:01:36 There's not a lot of spam including "upgraded-array-element-type" in it's body... 00:01:57 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 00:02:03 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has quit [Client Quit] 00:02:20 :) thanks 00:02:30 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-180-53.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:03:01 ... The NIL-specialized arrays thing again? 00:03:18 rvirding_ [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:27 (a.k.a. "that which broke the non-unicode sbcl build not so long ago"?) 00:03:50 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:55 -!- rvirding_ [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:04:23 FWIW it was circa ~2010/11/12 00:04:34 rvirding_ [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:01 I suspect that the discussion started popping up from time to time no later than shortly before SBCL supported NIL arrays. 00:05:29 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@79.138.221.172.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:06:35 mon_key: sorry, my cll timescale is slightly distorted from realtime. 00:06:37 -!- rvirding_ [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:07:07 pjb: np I actually read that thread and forgot it :) 00:12:32 adu_ [~ajr@pool-173-73-1-173.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:51 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-254-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:59 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-202.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:21 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: I'll see you on the dark side of the moon] 00:18:09 -!- alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@mobile-166-137-140-144.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: alexsuraci_] 00:18:25 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 00:18:42 -!- adu_ [~ajr@pool-173-73-1-173.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:21:06 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-202.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:21:38 daniel [~daniel@p5082983B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:50 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082983B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:22:55 H4ns` [~user@pD4B9E5EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:04 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:05 so specbot doesn't seem to recognize the hspec issues. The write up for Issue ARRAY-TYPE-ELEMENT-TYPE-SEMANTICS was also helpful 00:26:06 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9E5EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:06 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Issues/iss015_w.htm 00:26:27 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:26:39 nyef: pjb: pkhuong: thanks again for all the pointers. I think i'm ok with "" now 00:29:14 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-127-15.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 00:32:41 pnq [~nick@AC8119EB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:34:11 alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@mobile-166-137-140-144.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:08 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:42:27 Anyone use that weird :allow-other-keys t feature with any regularity? That seems like a pretty big burden on the implementation if it's used as rarely as I think it is. And I'm pretty sure there's some code out there that will crap out if for instance it uses "&rest rest &key test this" and you call it with ":allow-other-keys t :fake-key 'my-key" (it would assume REST contains only :test and :this keywords). 00:45:15 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.198.250] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:46:57 Hexstream: if you implementation has a MOP CLOS it prob. uses allow-other-keys _a lot_, regardless of whether you do or not. 00:47:37 Hunh. FUNCTION types are still for declaration only, and not discrimination, though. 00:48:31 Ok, just to be sure, I'm talking about :allow-other-keys t, which is different from &allow-other-keys. 00:49:03 -!- Ralith [~ralith@142.58.92.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:49:10 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:52:22 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16] has joined #lisp 00:53:39 Hexstream: can &allow-other-keys be decoupled from :allow-other-keys? 00:53:47 mon_key: Yes. 00:54:08 It's the whole point, in fact. &allow-other-keys is for the definer, :allow-other-keys t is for the caller. 00:54:20 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:34 I mean wrt defgeneric? 00:55:09 They're both for a certain idea of an extension protocol, along with the argument precedence order in keyword lambda lists. 00:55:12 From the caller's perspective, generic functions are just like regular functions so I'm not sure what you mean.. 00:55:20 -!- sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:56:20 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:56:34 nyef: Yeah, that seems to make sense. Lately I'm trying to fully grok this concept that Common Lisp really defines a family of languages... 00:57:33 It doesn't, really. It defines one language which is a compromise between the implementors of a family of languages. 00:57:55 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B479.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:58:34 psilord2 [~psilord@adsl-99-153-135-105.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:03 Well, CLHS 1.1.2 says "Common Lisp was designed as a description of a family of languages." 00:59:31 Yes, but it /is/ a language itself. 00:59:33 common lisp was designed as a home for orphaned parenthesis 00:59:45 sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 00:59:57 Well, that too, of course. 01:00:19 -!- psilord2 [~psilord@adsl-99-153-135-105.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 01:01:03 Hexstream: I'm looking at section 7.6.4 of the spec "Congruent Lambda-lists for all Methods of a Generic Function" item 4 01:01:03 01:01:46 Another feature that I'm not sure many people use (but who knows) is that notion of a "safe call" that you must go particularly out of your way to enable, short of using (declaim (optimize safety)) (or was it proclaim? or maybe the syntax is wrong, but you get the point) 01:02:50 Hexstream: specifically that "The checking of the validity of keyword names is done in the generic function, not in each method" 01:02:51 -!- kuffaar is now known as Haskell 01:03:05 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:03:31 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:55 mon_key: Ok, I see what you mean. But that really has to do with the implementation of CLOS itself, not just the MOP. 01:06:02 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-173-69-160-222.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:06:41 -!- sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:08:20 Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has joined #lisp 01:09:20 mon_key: Also from CLHS 7.6.4: "A method is invoked as if the keyword argument pair whose name is :allow-other-keys and whose value is true were supplied, though no such argument pair will be passed." So really, :allow-other-keys t is not used in the implementation of generic methods apparently (though it might reuse some of the same code). 01:09:33 Hexstream: But CLOS can not be decoupled from "the rest" of a CL implementation so... 01:10:32 mon_key: I don't understand how that relates to the subject... 01:12:10 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16] has quit [Quit: rpg] 01:12:40 sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 01:13:28 adamvh [~adamvh@pool-173-69-160-222.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:15 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14:20 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:51 Hexstream: are you suggesting that :allow-other-keys is not useful? 01:15:27 -!- vokoda``` [~user@host86-145-189-61.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:15:37 madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:44 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:16:02 mon_key: No, I'm suggesting that the cost of supporting it everywhere is more immediately apparent to me than the pervasiveness of its usefulness. 01:16:39 Hexstream: Where is the _where_ in "everywhere"? 01:17:06 mon_key: Everywhere keyword arguments are supported. 01:17:43 Hexstream: but not wrt CLOS/MOP? 01:17:46 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:18:02 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:18:28 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:18:32 mon_key: ?? CLOS/MOP makes extensive use of keyword arguments so... 01:19:11 -!- turbofail [~user@c-67-180-111-45.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:18 pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:19:26 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:19:28 -!- alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@mobile-166-137-140-144.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: alexsuraci_] 01:21:15 Hexstream: So, for CLOS/MOP it should be supported? 01:21:48 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-39.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:37 mon_key: What? Of course. I'm not saying it shouldn't be supported. I just wanted to see if someone would come up and say something like: "Oh, I actually use that feature extensively in such-and-such scenarios, so now I hope you can see how it's really useful." I'm not assuming it was recklessly added to the standard for no reason. 01:24:49 Given the apparent cost of mandating that such a feature be supported, I'm sure its addition to the standard has been very diligently considered. 01:30:30 Hexstream: What I am getting at is that the CPL for a function is (`function', `t') whereas `generic-function' is (`generic-function`, `function', `t') My question is whether it is reasonable for someone to implement a function meta-object outside the "system-class" and if so, how likely is it that this other function meta-object would benefit from an :allow-other-keys when talking to function objects which are of the "system-class". 01:30:40 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 01:31:17 -!- Haskell is now known as kfr 01:35:00 Actually, if you examine implementations, you'll find that subclasses of FUNCTION end up deferring the actual execution to an object which /is/ a FUNCTION. 01:35:17 (The funcallable-instance-tramp on SBCL, for example.) 01:36:44 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16] has joined #lisp 01:37:41 -!- felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has quit [Quit: felipe] 01:41:00 -!- sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:41:18 Ahhhh, nothing like starting from fresh copies of libraries to discover all those forgotten-about local patches you were depending on. 01:41:34 Hexstream: I don't see that :allow-other-keys is so costly, given the difference between a function taking keyword parameters and one that doesn't 01:42:24 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:44:32 nyef: like braid.lisp and boot.lisp in PCL? 01:45:06 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-127-15.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:27 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-173-69-160-222.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:45:39 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:46:22 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16] has quit [Quit: rpg] 01:46:28 sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 01:47:02 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:48:26 mon_key: More the special magic, trampolines, and type-tag-punning behind how a FUNCALLABLE-INSTANCE actually works. 01:49:27 nyef: so stuff more under code/* ? 01:49:47 Some there, some in compiler/*, some in runtime/*. 01:50:58 What it amounts to is that a when a funcallable-instance is called, there's a special fragment of code in the runtime that ends up with control, and it pulls the FUNCALLABLE-INSTANCE-FUN and calls that, passing the instance as a bit of context. 01:51:35 ok, will look more at home. So the FIF is a class object higher up the lattice? 01:52:44 ah its in compiler/generic/* :) 01:53:20 gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:16 objdef? 01:54:20 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-154-210.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:37 There's probably also something related in compiler/target/cell. 01:54:46 VOP set-fdefn-fun or something like that. 01:55:08 And a touch in runtime/target-assem.S 01:55:44 great thanx 01:56:07 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:57:59 -!- gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:59:57 andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #lisp 02:02:02 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-95-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:02:56 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 02:03:54 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:31 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 02:04:53 adamvh [~adamvh@pool-173-69-160-222.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:51 -!- Iommi [~Iommi@86.Red-81-38-180.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 02:07:59 gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:33 zmv [~daniel@189-47-105-236.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:10:44 flyfish [~liuguangz@zz-12-6-a8.bta.net.cn] has joined #lisp 02:12:46 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-154-210.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 02:14:07 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16] has joined #lisp 02:15:22 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-154-210.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:11 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@adsl-99-104-104-11.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:13 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:32:01 adamvh_ [~adamvh@pool-173-69-160-222.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:02 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-173-69-160-222.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:32:03 -!- adamvh_ is now known as adamvh 02:33:39 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:39:51 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:39:58 madsenz1 [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:19 pinterface: Oh, have I been ther 02:40:22 *there 02:41:17 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:43:44 :) 02:44:15 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 02:44:24 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has quit [Quit: superflit] 02:44:44 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 02:44:44 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has quit [Client Quit] 02:44:48 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:46:08 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 02:46:16 -!- andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:32 andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #lisp 02:51:41 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:39 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:53:14 huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 02:53:51 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:22 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:03 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@adsl-99-104-104-11.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:58:49 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:59:25 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:01:36 symbole [~user@ool-182ff693.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:32 SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:40 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:10:06 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11:24 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11:29 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:13:56 Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:19:36 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-148-200.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 03:19:51 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-173-69-160-222.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20:58 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:21:08 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 03:22:32 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 03:26:45 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-154-210.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 03:28:10 -!- mega1 [~quassel@2001:470:1f05:548:215:58ff:fe7d:773b] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:30:38 -!- andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Quit: andares] 03:31:02 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-51-145-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:02 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-51-145-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:31:02 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 03:35:06 -!- xan_ [~xan@169.Red-83-52-52.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:37:00 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:37:24 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-154-210.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:18 pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 03:40:42 tmh [639725e8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 03:40:51 Greetings lispers. 03:41:05 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16] has quit [Quit: rpg] 03:41:46 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-152.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 03:42:39 andares [~sgd5@wl-west1-pat.netcom.duke.edu] has joined #lisp 03:42:39 -!- andares [~sgd5@wl-west1-pat.netcom.duke.edu] has quit [Changing host] 03:42:39 andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #lisp 03:46:05 gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:24 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:49:20 Hello tmh 03:49:38 -!- icbh [~icbh@ntszok033003.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:49:40 Hey drdo. 03:53:38 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:59:53 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:40 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:05 evening 04:02:13 darn, no fare around. 04:04:16 leifw [~leif@ool-18bac7df.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:39 andares_ [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #lisp 04:06:39 -!- andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:06:39 -!- andares_ is now known as andares 04:12:48 azaq231 [~derivecto@p4FF692FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:12:59 -!- azaq231 [~derivecto@p4FF692FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 04:13:00 azaq231 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 04:13:27 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:16:08 -!- andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16:15 icbh [~icbh@ntszok033003.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:16:35 andares [~sgd5@wl-west1-pat.netcom.duke.edu] has joined #lisp 04:16:35 -!- andares [~sgd5@wl-west1-pat.netcom.duke.edu] has quit [Changing host] 04:16:35 andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #lisp 04:18:39 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:18:50 antifuchs: The updated version of cxml-rpc is working wonderfully for me, thanks a ton 04:19:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.77.40.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:22:58 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 04:25:00 Joreji [~thomas@75-016.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 04:28:21 phao [phao@189.107.142.55] has joined #lisp 04:32:58 gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.223.245] has joined #lisp 04:33:03 -!- leifw [~leif@ool-18bac7df.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:33:27 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:35:02 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 04:35:42 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 04:36:35 angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 04:37:22 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43:26 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:45:40 -!- tmh [639725e8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 04:50:50 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:09 -!- phao [phao@189.107.142.55] has quit [Quit: Fui embora] 04:56:11 I want to lern more about lisp, but I have to work. meh 04:56:56 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:58:57 there could be available time in the night. 04:59:50 -!- az [~az@p4FE4EACD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:02:43 Say I am using quicklisp to load iterator, how do I get the iterator functions into the current namespace, so instead of (iter:iter ...), I can just use (iter ...). 05:02:44 -!- symbole [~user@ool-182ff693.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:05:27 -!- zmv [~daniel@189-47-105-236.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:07:27 az [~az@p4FE4F77C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:02 Wraithan: excellent! 05:12:24 when you define a package, put :iter into its :use clause 05:12:50 like (defpackage :my-awesome-package (:use :cl :iter)) ; then it will have the CL and ITER symbols available. 05:12:56 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.223.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:20:34 -!- andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:20:36 andares_ [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #lisp 05:21:37 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:56 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 05:22:37 paul0`: By learning more about Lisp, you can work more efficiently, and so less for the same output. 05:38:54 antifuchs: ah, ok, I should probably start moving my code into files... been just executing it in SLIME 05:39:12 Wraithan: that would make sense 05:39:19 have you seen xach's project tutorial? 05:39:30 antifuchs: more than a year ago now, yeah 05:39:33 cool 05:39:46 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:39:51 it's pretty good. also, he wrote quickproject which automates some of these steps (: 05:40:35 Wraithan: it's very easy to load code from .lisp files, C-c C-k being very common (compile & load) 05:40:38 Wraithan: It is not clear that you want to :use packages like iterate. 05:40:40 in Slime, that is 05:40:59 beach: actually, iterate is :use-able (: 05:41:08 and it gets pretty ugly if you don't 05:41:24 Wraithan: By doing that, you sort of commit to using future symbols that maintainers might introduce. 05:41:29 you have to write (iter:iter (iter:for x in '(1 2 3)) ) ; and stuff 05:41:44 antifuchs: That is pretty ugly, yes. 05:41:49 antifuchs: I couldn't use-package it on the SLIME shell, it had conflicting symbols with sbcl 05:41:56 Wraithan: yeah 05:42:03 use-package is generally a bad thing to use 05:42:15 antifuchs: I like to use import-from in that case 05:42:29 best to define your own package and its :use list 05:42:38 Phoodus: yeah, I know, I was experimenting pretty heavily with the syntax since I just started back up using lisp after not using it for a year (and being quite the noob last time I did use it ) 05:43:12 *Phoodus* is working with someone in the office learning Lisp from scratch 05:43:34 my only released lisp code: https://github.com/wraithan/high-low/blob/master/high-low.lisp 05:48:12 jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:55:21 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:55:46 -!- sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:00:07 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:36 sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 06:04:06 -!- andares_ [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Quit: andares_] 06:07:08 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 06:10:22 -!- flyfish [~liuguangz@zz-12-6-a8.bta.net.cn] has left #lisp 06:11:11 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.45.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:11:33 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.45.145] has joined #lisp 06:12:22 Wraithan: Do you still maintain it? 06:12:40 um, if there was maintence to be done, yes 06:12:57 Wraithan: The body of game-guess is badly indented. 06:15:44 beach: fixed 06:22:27 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 06:22:34 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-pozorgrdurhzcivv] has joined #lisp 06:22:34 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-pozorgrdurhzcivv] has quit [Changing host] 06:22:34 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:22:47 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:24:53 flyfish [~liuguangz@zz-12-6-a8.bta.net.cn] has joined #lisp 06:32:52 -!- flyfish [~liuguangz@zz-12-6-a8.bta.net.cn] has left #lisp 06:33:44 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:33:58 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-154-210.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:39:31 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:41:03 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:46:07 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:22 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-80-197.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:49:22 -!- azaq231 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:51:05 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:51:45 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:52:27 HG` [~HG@xdsley045.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:52:38 andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #lisp 06:52:58 antifuchs: I lied, I was mistaken about what you meant by the project tutorial. I have found his quickproject tutorial now. 06:53:10 cool! 06:54:24 I have all the code working if I load each line into SLIME using your xml-rpc stuff, now to setup the packaging correctly so I can use it externally 06:55:17 I am continually amazed at how fast and easy things are in lisp if A: one knows what they are doing and B: library support is there for what you are doing 06:55:24 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:58:01 it's great, isn't it (: 06:58:24 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:00:32 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 07:03:16 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-mejkpfyvpfixhaml] has joined #lisp 07:06:18 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-219.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:33 lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-157-73-178.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:52 -!- andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:16:59 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:16:59 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:16:59 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:18:13 empt [~empt@112.1.8.58] has joined #lisp 07:22:02 -!- adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-209-98.red.bezeqint.net] has left #lisp 07:23:19 gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:24:07 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:27:04 https://github.com/wraithan/jira-utils -- if anyone gets bored and doesn't mind taking a peek at that and telling me everything I messed up, that'd be cool :) 07:27:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:29:03 <_3b> where do username, password, auth-code come from? 07:29:36 _3b: you didn't read the readme. 07:29:41 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:29:50 -!- empt [~empt@112.1.8.58] has left #lisp 07:30:57 *_3b* would probably pass them as arguments to some of those functions 07:31:26 Wraithan: When you have an IF with no ELSE branch, it is preferable to use WHEN. 07:32:13 beach: fixed 07:32:21 what's the advantage of using WHEN over IF in this case? 07:32:27 Wraithan: And it is not usually necessary to introduce a lexical variable with LET if that variable is used only once in the body. Exceptions: to maintain order of evaluation, for naming. 07:32:28 concise? 07:32:37 myu2_ [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:32:42 madsenz1: Conventional. 07:32:54 beach: ah, makes sense. 07:33:05 <_3b> rather than counting and checking for odd count, iterate by 2 every time 07:33:21 _3b: Good catch! 07:33:24 <_3b> with LOOP it would be (loop for element in (...) by #'cddr ...) 07:33:31 <_3b> presumably iterate can do something similar 07:34:45 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:34:53 *_3b* was about to suggest destructuring element directly rather than nth 2 nth 3 stuff, but a named accessor would probably be even better 07:35:24 -!- madsenz1 is now known as madsenz 07:36:28 could you please explain more on the preference of destructuring? thanks:) 07:36:46 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:38:32 <_3b> easier to see what it is doing: (nil nil (nil element)) seems to require less thought to understand than (nth 2 (nth 3 element)), for me at least 07:38:40 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:39:08 _3b: http://paste.lisp.org/display/119082 ; that is what the data looks like in the list 07:39:26 the oddp is because every other element is :STRUCT 07:39:30 cool. (nil nil (nil element)) is more grpahical and direct. 07:39:57 <_3b> but as i said, it would probably be even better to have an accessor that described the component being accessed 07:40:02 Wraithan I think that's why 'cddr is suggested. 07:40:04 Wraithan: Yes, but by iterating by #'cddr as _3b suggests, you get only the odd elements. 07:40:31 Aye, I understand 07:40:49 <_3b> especially in this case, since i suspect accessing it by index is wrong anyway :) 07:41:06 I meant the data as more of a, this is what it looks like, to see how the named accessor might work 07:41:13 *_3b* guesses it should actually be assoc with :test string= or somethin 07:41:31 or if you could link me to something that shows how that is done 07:41:38 also because a dedicated accessor function could help improve encapsulation? 07:41:45 <_3b> are you trying to get the "reporter" entry? 07:42:04 the "key" entry 07:42:04 <_3b> madsenz: right, also documentation of what is being done 07:42:30 -!- Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:04 <_3b> madsenz: for example, if it were get-key instead of (nth 2 (nth 3)) i'd have been able to tell that without miscounting :p 07:43:17 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:43:34 if you can show me docs on how to do that, I'd gladly change it 07:44:08 <_3b> Wraithan: well, first step is (defun get-key (data) ...) 07:44:09 _3b great! 07:44:38 <_3b> and if you put the nth stuff inside that, you would have the same functionality as now, but more readable 07:45:00 except it wouldn't have helped you at all in trying to figure out what i am trying to grab 07:45:25 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:45:40 key could just refer to the key in the key value pairs in that data 07:45:50 <_3b> but (getf (cdr (assoc "key" data :test 'string=)) :string) might be more correct 07:45:58 <_3b> than the nth stuff 07:46:17 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:46:23 zickzackv [~zickzackv@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:46:53 <_3b> true, -key might be mistaken there 07:47:31 <_3b> alternately, you could make it look something like (get-value "key" element) or something 07:48:03 Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has joined #lisp 07:48:30 ahh, that is really neat the assoc stuff 07:48:34 I didn't know about that 07:49:19 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 07:49:30 Wraithan: hope this page will help, which demos how to combin loop and #'cadr: http://kzar.co.uk/blog/view/simple-genetic-algorithm-lisp 07:49:37 combine, sorry for the typo. 07:49:52 the code is rather long. 07:50:41 in the code I've read, I've much preferred to use iter over loop. But I will look into making that go by every other rather than having to check for oddp 07:51:00 *_3b* wonders how often it is useful to declare things as FLOAT like that code 07:51:12 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:53:07 and when is such optimization needed? when profiling? 07:53:14 through profiling? 07:53:26 https://github.com/wraithan/jira-utils/blob/master/jira-utils.lisp ; ok implemented using the named accessors, that part makes me especially happy, I didn't really like the nth stuff 07:53:46 <_3b> profiling is a good way to figure out what is worth optimizing 07:54:01 how about some other ways? 07:55:27 <_3b> other ways to figure out what to optimize? not sure there are any good ones... 'think hard' works for debugging, but unless you know the compiler and hardware really well, amounts to 'guess' for optimization :) 07:55:36 <_3b> i guess 'experience' more or less counts though 07:55:50 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8119EB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:55:56 kinda like learn from faults? 07:56:15 <_3b> learn from everything, preferably 07:56:36 cool~~~ 07:57:09 *_3b* for example, just learned that a generic 'float' declaration is apparently helpful, which i wouldn't have expected 07:57:35 <_3b> not that i would be likely to use it over single-float or double-float though 07:57:38 could this be bound to an implemetation? 07:57:44 <_3b> very 07:58:07 <_3b> poorly used declartions slow down sbcl for example 07:58:27 <_3b> since it verifies them at runtime at default optimization settings 07:58:30 so must be seasoned. 07:58:45 <_3b> so if the cost of verification is more than the gain from knowing the type, it is slower 07:59:29 madsenz, _3b: how is that? 07:59:45 still not yet got the meaning of (for n from 0) (when (oddp n) blabla) 07:59:55 I used (rest ...) to skip the first one, then iterate by 'cddr 08:00:04 <_3b> Wraithan: might want to add an optional or &key arg to get-value instead of hard-coding :string, so you could get the array or struct values too 08:00:05 is the data at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119082 for a single struct? 08:00:52 madsenz: yes, it returns a whole list of them 08:00:56 Wraithan: cool and fast, you've already updated. 08:01:13 a whole list of such :STRUCT? 08:01:59 the list is (:STRUCT '(values ...) :STRUCT '(values ...) :STRUCT '(values ...) ...) 08:02:02 <_3b> Wraithan: do you need to (collect .. into retval) and (finally (return retval))? in loop you could just (loop ... collect (get-value...))) and it would return it automatically 08:02:24 Wraithan: got it. 08:02:38 _3b: I prefer the syntax of iterate over loop, is there an argument to use loop other than the implicit return? 08:03:29 <_3b> Wraithan: you could write the LOOP the way you wrote the iter form if that is what you are asking 08:03:46 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:03:55 <_3b> so i assume you can write the iter form the way i suggested the LOOP as well, but i don't use it so can't say how 08:04:09 *_3b* guesses (collect (get-value...)) would work though 08:04:45 how about just removing the finally clause and give a try? 08:04:52 Any idea when (inspect (find-class 'field)) gives me an UNBOUND-SLOT error (and an "A UNBOUND-SLOT was caught when trying to print *DEBUG-CONDITION*") on sbcl? 08:05:03 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wemufhvjycccqdoy] has joined #lisp 08:05:03 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wemufhvjycccqdoy] has quit [Changing host] 08:05:03 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:05:04 Ah, you are right, it does implicitly return now 08:05:07 <_3b> madsenz: probably need to get rid of the into also 08:05:09 splittist [~John@55-62.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:05:11 morning 08:05:46 _3b: concise. 08:06:39 flip214: how's the class field defined? 08:07:09 as :type (or symbol other-class) :initform nil ... so it should never be unbound 08:07:47 would you mind giving the complete literal definition of field? 08:08:11 ok, implicit return of list, and keyword type pushed 08:09:08 <_3b> Wraithan: wrong "string"... i meant the :string in the getf, not the 'string= in the assoc 08:09:41 I must have miss understood how that worked, but I see now 08:09:56 <_3b> for example if you wanted the "customFieldValues", you would need :array instead of :string 08:10:01 rught 08:10:04 right 08:10:15 I hadn't completely thought that through 08:10:19 madsenz, I'm extracting the bits 08:10:29 *_3b* suspects getf is the wrong way to get that part though 08:10:33 flip214: thanks. 08:11:11 <_3b> though without knowing about the source of the data, is sort of hard to say 08:11:37 <_3b> but thinking about it, that seems to be exposing stuff in the api of that function that shouldn't be 08:12:04 <_3b> or at least that shouldn't be required 08:12:43 _3b: the source of the data is a JIRA bug database, wrote this to get the list of my issues out of the DB so I could use it to make sure each of those bugs are in my org-mode todo-list :) 08:14:51 <_3b> i meant more whether those sublists are actually intended to be plists, or lists of 3 items, or what 08:14:59 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-219.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:15:05 <_3b> if it is (name type value) always, then getf is the wrong thing 08:15:07 clhs: getf 08:15:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_getf.htm 08:15:11 -!- splittist [~John@55-62.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:15:57 <_3b> if it is (name key value {key value}*) than getf would be right 08:16:07 I do believe they are supposed to be plists, as it is a single value key that the xml-rpc interface is sending back 08:17:27 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-179-70.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:53 splittist [~John@55-62.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:20:46 -!- lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-157-73-178.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:25:01 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-xgrfensjbvojogvd] has joined #lisp 08:25:43 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:15 flip214 pasted "unbound slot in inspect" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119083 08:28:27 madsenz, ^^ 08:29:07 cleaned up as much as possible 08:29:30 perhaps the (apply #'make-instance ... initargs) makes a problem? 08:30:38 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:30:56 madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:39 So I am going to want to parse a file to see if any of the strings in a list are in it and return which ones aren't. I have an idea of how to do that using the iter stuff, but the only stuff I am seeing to test if a string is in another string is regex, which feels like using a sledge hammer to kill gnats. 08:35:17 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-14-230.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:35:50 how is the file's content organized? 08:36:07 <_3b> clhs search 08:36:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_search.htm 08:36:30 madsenz, no idea? should I ask on #sbcl? 08:36:54 flip214: trying to reproduce the problem. 08:37:05 madsenz: fine, thank you 08:37:07 and you can always ask on #sbcl:) 08:38:20 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-101-228.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:38:39 _3b: thanks 08:42:22 <_3b> flip214: looks like the unbound slots are in MOPpy stuff somewhere, so not too unreasonable to be unbound... would probably be nice if INSPECT handled it better though (slime inspector works fine for example) 08:43:52 fusss [~fusss@1.152.223.135] has joined #lisp 08:44:39 well, it only happens if instances are created ... without the (make-instance 'player) no fields are created either, and then it works 08:46:04 Xach: Regarding Lisa; I ended up butchering its ad-hoc MOP layer and put in place a CLOSER-MOP dependency. It's good enough for my uses, but I'm afraid it might be bad etiquette (is C2MOP considered industrial-strength? anyway ..) 08:47:35 <_3b> flip214: right, probably just some optimization where it doesn't do work until it has to (when an instance is created for example) 08:47:59 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:33 flip214 what do you expect #'make-field-list to do? 08:50:06 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:11 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@68.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:50:57 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:51:06 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-16.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:51:55 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-16.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:53:52 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-219.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:54:36 flip214 I think it has to do with your print-object function's definition 08:56:02 why don't just use a list of field, instead of the c-style pointer to next? 08:57:11 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-16.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:57:48 <_3b> true, i guess the print-object method could be more robust, someone could call slot-makunbound on things in addition to pointing it at class prototypes 08:58:44 -!- sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:58:47 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:33 also, I don't understand why *print-circle* would be used. 09:00:42 The point is that different players would follow different paths - so the simple CDR wouldn't be enough. 09:00:53 the list made by #'make-field-list could not be a circular one. 09:00:59 madsenz: the print-circle is an artifact when I've been printing the (next-field) too. 09:01:06 ok. 09:01:29 at least in what you gave, there could not be circles. 09:01:40 or I have missed something. 09:02:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:03:10 madsenz: not in that example. the function (init-game) that I left out (because it wasn't necessary for the inspect to fail) would build a graph of fields. 09:03:30 I see. 09:03:42 sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 09:04:58 marijnjh [~user@p5DDB0E6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:21 is there a format directive that will print 1 as "1", but 3/2 as "1.5"? 09:06:46 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:03 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 09:09:17 snearch [~snearch@f053000207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:10:47 not clear what's wrong with (used f) 09:11:11 but change it to f only, the print-object works. 09:11:51 well, perhaps the prototype doesn't use :initform, and so the used field isn't populated? 09:12:53 I guess not. since even I've given the :used argument explicitly and still fail 09:13:56 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:15:35 <_3b> unzspecified whether the prototype is initialized or not according to MOP 09:17:47 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:01 marijnjh: the Pro mailinglist just had a snippet showing how to add your own functions as FORMAT directives; awesome 09:19:56 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:27 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:20:39 -!- Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:23:24 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:23:38 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:24:28 madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:06 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:27:28 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:29:29 -!- fusss [~fusss@1.152.223.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:31:04 -!- az [~az@p4FE4F77C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 09:31:37 fusss [~fusss@120.156.98.184] has joined #lisp 09:38:23 lundis [~lundis@dyn56-476.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 09:41:56 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 09:41:57 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:02 Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has joined #lisp 09:42:03 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:31 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 09:43:14 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-144-214.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:43:41 Deesl [~bsdboy@2001:470:f96b:0:9227:e4ff:fefa:e9b9] has joined #lisp 09:43:54 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@2001:470:f96b:0:9227:e4ff:fefa:e9b9] has quit [Changing host] 09:43:54 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 09:47:38 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:47:43 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has left #lisp 09:48:46 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:48:53 -!- fusss [~fusss@120.156.98.184] has left #lisp 09:49:18 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.40.54] has joined #lisp 09:51:41 I am trying to imagine a song that fits with lisp code, but I can't. 09:59:58 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:00:00 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:00:47 -!- Hoornet [~Hoornet@93.103.24.156] has quit [Quit: Love is the law, love under Will.] 10:01:01 Quadrescence: hm... perhaps this will give you some ideas http://www.oesquema.com.br/trabalhosujo/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/heyjude.jpg 10:03:01 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 10:03:20 -!- SecretAgent [sa@98.143.158.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:04:07 ZabaQ [~Zaba@133.92-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:40 H4ns`` [~user@p579F85FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:43 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-152-12.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 10:12:05 -!- H4ns` [~user@pD4B9E5EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:12:25 Quadrescence: find ~ -name '*.lisp' -exec sudo cat {} \> /dev/dsp \; 10:17:22 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:19:15 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@adsl-99-104-104-11.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:30 amb007 [~a_bakic@62.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:17 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 10:27:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-016.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:27:25 Joreji [~thomas@75-016.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:35:38 hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:36:18 -!- sm`wor [~chatzilla@78.40.4.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:15 sm`wor [~chatzilla@78.40.4.40] has joined #lisp 10:38:32 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:38:35 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48:31 carlocci [~nes@93.37.221.4] has joined #lisp 10:49:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-016.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:54:36 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:58:49 malbertife [~marcoalbe@193.136.122.17] has joined #lisp 11:01:08 -!- ttb [~frinnn@i59F61CB5.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:01:36 -!- gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:02:00 Joreji [~thomas@66-190.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:04:15 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.127.144] has joined #lisp 11:08:11 vokoda [~user@host86-147-30-218.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:09:41 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-152.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:11:11 ttb [~frinnn@i59F62F6D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:12:49 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:29 urandom__ [~user@p548A306D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:34 vordark [~chatzilla@cpe-74-75-102-119.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:23:31 -!- vordark [~chatzilla@cpe-74-75-102-119.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:28 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:26:42 companion_cube [~simon@kuzh.polytechnique.fr] has joined #lisp 11:29:28 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:33:21 Good evening everyone! 11:33:56 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A8C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:54 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38:09 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:38:28 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38:58 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.40.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:44:42 hello beach 11:47:12 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-190.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:49:16 odyssomay [55e187a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.225.135.169] has joined #lisp 11:51:09 Iommi [~Iommi@86.Red-81-38-180.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:33 algal [~anonymous@92.26.7.209] has joined #lisp 11:53:15 Joreji [~thomas@66-190.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:53:57 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:45 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-39.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:59:17 HG`` [~HG@xdsley045.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:59:17 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsley045.osnanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:59:33 -!- og [foobar@puck.ogr.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:37 longshot [~longshot@174.36.149.237-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:31 vokoda` [~user@host109-152-179-136.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:50 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:07:03 -!- vokoda [~user@host86-147-30-218.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:11:23 Hello, I am trying to use (make-pathname) with (user-homedir-pathname) I have gotten it to work when I just wanted a file in the homedir such as (make-pathname :defaults (user-homedir-pathname) :name 'blah.txt') but if I want something in a subdir I can't work out how to handle that. 12:11:42 Wraithan: look at merge-pathnames 12:11:57 Wraithan: e.g. (merge-pathnames "subdir/foo.txt" (user-homedir-pathname)) 12:12:00 -!- H4ns`` is now known as H4ns 12:12:22 H4ns: Ah, ok, thanks! 12:13:44 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 12:16:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-190.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:16:15 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:49 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:17:40 Wraithan: and i guess it should be :name "blah" :type "txt" 12:18:09 Wraithan: if you're using make-pathname 12:19:58 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-179-70.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:20:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.21.218] has joined #lisp 12:23:03 -!- easyE [mlRyRUI2O3@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:23:21 jtza8_ [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-205-154.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:23:53 Sorry about that, network problems... did my question come through though? 12:24:19 If not, here's it again: 12:24:23 I've wondered before... what is the meaning of a * as in let*? 12:24:31 I've seen it used in other situations as well. 12:24:37 zmv [~daniel@187.57.23.52] has joined #lisp 12:25:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.21.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:25:47 jtza8_: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/554949/let-versus-let-in-common-lisp 12:26:59 Thanks 12:32:48 the top answer is wrong, you don't need LET* 12:33:53 leo2007 [~leo@121.207.25.60] has joined #lisp 12:33:56 Yes, it's syntactic sugar... but I was wondering more about the "*" as some sort of convention? 12:34:45 it means "something slightly different", and in let, prog, and do it means sequential binding 12:34:50 -!- Iommi [~Iommi@86.Red-81-38-180.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:35:04 -!- algal [~anonymous@92.26.7.209] has quit [Quit: algal] 12:35:54 Well, that clears it up for me, thanks. 12:36:08 the other example is LIST and LIST* 12:38:54 A quick stylistic question... I've got an object (CLOS) which I essentially use as a singleton, and it is defined in a global variable (for abstraction reasons). 12:39:51 It might be a really bad idea of me to define macros that expand to include that global variable, and give them the same names as the applicable methods followed by a "*"? 12:40:23 yes, it is a bad idea in my book of bad ideas 12:40:44 why is it defined in a global variable in the first place? 12:42:17 I'm building a GUI system, and in it I have windows (for example)... The windows need to be coordinated by a "windowing system" (which is the object in question) however... 12:42:41 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 12:42:43 I want to keep that bit out of the API on the API user's side. 12:43:40 Only "elegant" solution I can come up with then, is to get rid of the object, and use functions instead. 12:43:54 well, so you have (defvar *window-system* (make-instance 'x-window)), what's the problem? 12:45:02 On the user API side, if you'd like to use a method such as add-window, you allways need to pass in the global variable. 12:45:27 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-250-49.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:29 ... which would make the user's code dependent on my implementation. 12:46:19 why does it need to pass a global variable? it's a global variable, you don't need to pass it around 12:47:12 (defmethod add-window ((system window-system) window) ...) 12:47:35 Which means, (add-window *window-system* window) 12:47:59 longshot_ [~longshot@174.36.149.237-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:01 Joreji [~thomas@75-016.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:48:09 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-245-87.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 12:48:14 -!- nilly [~nil@c-98-247-253-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 12:48:15 (defun add-window (window) (add-window-to-system *window-system* window)) (defmethod add-window-to-system ((system x-window) window) ...)? 12:48:44 Hadn't thought of it that way round. 12:48:46 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 12:49:04 Thanks a lot, you've saved my a lot of time. :) 12:49:05 use doors instead of windows, problem solved 12:49:22 *me 12:49:23 *k9quaint* needs coffee 12:50:23 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 12:50:51 -!- longshot [~longshot@174.36.149.237-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:50:51 -!- longshot_ is now known as longshot 12:51:42 algal [~anonymous@92.26.7.209] has joined #lisp 12:52:41 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:53:21 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:53:39 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:54:10 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: wrrromm] 13:00:14 (inspect 'foo) launches a new kind of prompt for inspecting the name, package, value, function, etc., associated with the symbol foo. How do I exit that prompt and get back to the REPL without just raising an error? 13:00:49 algal: that is implementation dependent. what lisp do you use? 13:00:57 I'm running SBCL 13:01:06 on slime on aquamacs 13:01:17 q 13:01:21 does it for me. 13:01:26 d'oh... 13:01:27 thanks. 13:01:28 don't use inspect in slime 13:01:37 oh. why not? 13:01:54 algal: C-c I is better 13:01:54 because slime has its own inspector 13:01:56 should I be calling a slime command to trigger a better UI for the same thing?\ 13:02:51 C-c l is bound to compile for me. Maybe I've got to update my slime. 13:02:53 longshot_ [~longshot@180.184.8.173] has joined #lisp 13:03:00 algal: I, not l 13:03:15 algal: maybe you want to revise your choice of fonts, too :) 13:03:18 (scnr) 13:03:30 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:04 and C-c C-v i to inspect the presentation at point 13:04:30 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-227-248.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 13:05:50 artem [~artem-pi@80.254.7.250] has joined #lisp 13:05:55 -!- artem [~artem-pi@80.254.7.250] has left #lisp 13:06:00 Hmm. gotta update slime. it's been a while. I take it best practices is still to use the CVS head. 13:06:05 -!- longshot [~longshot@174.36.149.237-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:06:05 -!- longshot_ is now known as longshot 13:06:41 algal: you can also use M-x slime-inspect to try it out 13:06:52 yeah, I got slime-inspect working. 13:07:07 But C-c C-v i isn't setup, probably b/c it's an old version. 13:07:15 perhaps you don't use slime-repl 13:08:00 s__C [~s__C@12-223.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 13:08:04 hello 13:08:23 i'm currently trying to install clx on my archlinux machine, but there is a problem 13:08:36 debugger invoked on a SB-INT:BUG in thread # I'm sure I don't use slime-repl, since I don't know what it is. :O 13:08:39 {1002BE9C71}>: 13:08:40 Iommi [~Iommi@86.Red-81-38-180.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:50 failed AVER: (AND (NULL (TN-READS TN)) (NULL (TN-WRITES TN))) 13:08:59 it's a bug in sbcl 13:09:04 yes 13:09:06 it's not lying 13:09:08 how can i fix it ? 13:09:19 it's already fixed 13:09:23 and ? 13:09:28 algal: do you have a *slime-repl sbcl* buffer? 13:09:53 excuse me stassats but i'm new to lisp 13:09:58 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 13:09:58 no, it's *inferior-lisp* 13:10:12 algal: then you're not actually using slime :) 13:10:29 s__C: well, it's universal, whenever something is fixed, you need to update it to get the fix 13:10:40 But I got there by invoking (slime) ... Confused. 13:10:52 ok 13:10:52 algal: you probably ignored an error message 13:10:54 will see 13:10:57 algal: (during startup) 13:11:06 so the package for sbcl on aur isn't up-to-date 13:11:57 you'd probably have to update to CVS 13:12:16 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:12:20 H4ns: which error message? 13:12:37 stassats: the error message that slime printed when it failed to properly start up. 13:12:55 stassats: just guessing. maybe you have a better theory why he sees *inferior-lisp* 13:13:01 hu is it ok with sbcl 1.0.45-1 ? 13:13:05 what makes you think that algal's slime failed to start up properly? 13:13:25 H4ns: that's the default behaviour 13:13:27 algal: Are you doing (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) in your .emacs? 13:13:31 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:46 H4ns: slime doesn't load slime-repl by default. 13:13:49 stassats: see, you know better, so share your knowledge. 13:13:51 no, just (slime-setup) 13:14:01 sellout: ah. nice way to put off users. 13:14:02 Didn't know about '(slime-fancy) 13:14:08 H4ns: I agree. 13:14:09 H4ns: sellout beat me to it 13:14:30 I suppose that's what triggers the special slime repl. 13:14:47 among many other things, yes 13:14:51 I'll pull the new cvs HEAD and restart with the fancy. 13:15:03 algal: You could use slime-repl instead of slime-fancy, but -fancy includes most of the stuff you'll want. You can always pick and choose as you figure more of it out. 13:16:21 algal: and you can use quicklisp to get your slime if you don't need to be bleeding edge. 13:16:48 s__C: i don't know what this AUR does, but the error you're describing was fixed somewhere post 1.0.45 13:16:56 splittist: good to know! Is the bleeding edge actually more stable w/r/t/ SBCL? 13:17:29 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:17:34 algal: quicklisp is not that unbleeding edge 13:18:21 in general, yes, CVS HEAD can be more stable, but quicklisp lags only by a month or so 13:18:24 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw258137.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:18:31 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 13:18:35 and HEAD can be more unstable as well 13:19:19 if they can both be more unstable than each other, then that makes the choice either very or very easy. :) 13:19:27 I definitely use QL for any libraries I'm not hacking on. 13:22:40 sellout: I'm very excited about QL. Hearing about it is what lured me back into exploring CL. 13:23:03 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:25:37 wow, slime's come along away in the last couple years. 13:25:52 I feel like that astronaut who got sucked into the monolith. 13:26:06 nah, you just had everything disabled 13:26:07 not many emacs packages produce that effect. 13:26:21 yeah, probs. 13:26:49 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:07 thanks for the help, chaps. 13:27:33 adamvh [~adamvh@199.89.180.254] has joined #lisp 13:27:38 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@adsl-99-104-104-11.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:27:40 it helps to read the slime manual, because it has many things which aren't visible 13:28:04 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:28:51 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:29:44 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:50 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.127.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:35:03 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:09 ok stassats 13:42:49 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:45:27 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-245-87.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:47:26 rpg [~rpg@fw.henn.dunn.pcspeed.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:51 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:17 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.127.144] has joined #lisp 13:51:25 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-28-201.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 13:53:42 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:23 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.127.144] has quit [Client Quit] 13:55:43 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Quit: be back later] 13:55:51 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 13:58:11 _ssolz [~zloday@94.72.129.28] has joined #lisp 13:58:27 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:59:46 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:54 -!- algal [~anonymous@92.26.7.209] has quit [Quit: algal] 14:04:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 14:05:42 -!- _ssolz [~zloday@94.72.129.28] has left #lisp 14:06:04 milanj [~milanj_@82.117.199.26] has joined #lisp 14:06:47 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:36 -!- s__C [~s__C@12-223.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has left #lisp 14:07:42 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:08:48 -!- rpg [~rpg@fw.henn.dunn.pcspeed.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 14:09:22 -!- HG`` [~HG@xdsley045.osnanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:10:25 HG` [~HG@xdsley045.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:10:38 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:15 -!- odyssomay [55e187a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.225.135.169] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:12:26 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:12:39 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@133.92-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:12:57 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-mejkpfyvpfixhaml] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13:40 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Quit] 14:15:35 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:18:00 sellout- [~greg@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:18:10 -!- sellout- [~greg@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Client Quit] 14:19:42 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 14:20:06 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw258137.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:20:55 -!- Iommi [~Iommi@86.Red-81-38-180.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:21:14 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 14:22:05 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 14:24:26 -!- longshot [~longshot@180.184.8.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:25:29 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:27:12 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 14:27:18 Bronsa [~brace@host125-185-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:29:21 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.8] has joined #lisp 14:31:13 longshot [~longshot@174.36.149.237-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:02 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:09 -!- benny [~benny@i577A31BE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:37 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:41 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:28 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:45:50 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:05 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:15 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:35 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:49:47 ZabaQ [~Zaba@133.92-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:04 mephisto_ [~mephisto@CPE00163625fbf5-CM00407b85ff2a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:54:41 -!- sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:56:08 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:59:05 Adlai [~Adlai@bzq-79-177-24-132.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:25 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.182.71] has joined #lisp 14:59:29 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@bzq-79-177-24-132.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:59:29 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:00:20 sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 15:04:32 algal [~anonymous@92.26.7.209] has joined #lisp 15:04:47 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.127.144] has joined #lisp 15:05:10 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.182.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:06:40 andares [~sgd5@wl-west1-pat.netcom.duke.edu] has joined #lisp 15:06:40 -!- andares [~sgd5@wl-west1-pat.netcom.duke.edu] has quit [Changing host] 15:06:40 andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #lisp 15:07:52 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-28-201.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:10:42 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:17:02 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.182.71] has joined #lisp 15:20:11 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@CPE00163625fbf5-CM00407b85ff2a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:39 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-148-200.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:51 Hello all. 15:23:58 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 15:24:14 hi nyef 15:24:45 -!- sgeh [cube@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-kzztobpmwihhlvii] has left #lisp 15:25:30 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 15:27:55 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 15:28:33 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 15:28:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 15:28:36 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:29:13 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.103] has joined #lisp 15:30:31 dabd [~dabd@2001:690:2100:1c:21e:65ff:fe49:7c12] has joined #lisp 15:34:39 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:26 TDT [~user@74.115.254.25] has joined #lisp 15:36:41 antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-evyjhphhfurjceot] has joined #lisp 15:37:10 -!- algal [~anonymous@92.26.7.209] has quit [Quit: algal] 15:37:59 opoku [~opoku@static-96-235-41-86.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:04 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B326A0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:57 g'morning, been awhile since I was here last it feels. 15:39:16 TDT: good morning 15:41:10 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082983B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:42:13 Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:39 algal [~anonymous@92.26.7.209] has joined #lisp 15:45:15 -!- silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:45:38 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:51 mega1 [~quassel@2001:470:1f05:548:215:58ff:fe7d:773b] has joined #lisp 15:46:44 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:47:56 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.103] has joined #lisp 15:48:23 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:46 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 15:50:15 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:51:17 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:51:36 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 15:52:45 benny [~benny@i577A1CC1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:55:23 -!- andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Quit: andares] 15:55:24 Is there any way to look at the slots of a class (short of using inspect or looking at the source)? 15:55:40 mop:class-slots 15:55:41 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:01 stassats: thanks, I'll take a look :) 15:56:37 Kruppe: use closer-mop for portability. 15:57:52 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@199.89.180.254] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 15:57:56 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@193.136.122.17] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 15:58:53 H4ns: thanks, just saw that in ql:system-apropos! 15:59:04 on that note, quicklisp kicks ass 15:59:19 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:59:21 Thanks! 15:59:53 Xach: You're very welcome :D 16:00:03 Regarding quicklisp: how do I write a function that calls quicklisp-quickstart:install in my initialization file (quicklisp not loaded yet)...? 16:00:46 mephisto_ [~mephisto@airmarshal-v213-228-360.airyork.yorku.ca] has joined #lisp 16:01:10 gko: You only need to install it once. After that, you should load the setup file to bring it into your environment. The (ql:add-to-init-file) function will do that for you. 16:01:41 or you can manually add it, something like (load "~/quicklisp/setup.lisp") in your init file. 16:02:36 andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #lisp 16:02:51 tmh [639725e8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:02:56 Greetings lispers. 16:03:10 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.182.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:03:10 I use clisp and LispWorks: is it OK to quicklisp-quickstart:install in the same directory? 16:04:19 gko: Sure. You don't need to install it multiple times per implementation. 16:04:50 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:24 OK. Should I also dump asdf and use it instead? 16:05:43 gko: quicklisp uses asdf to do its work. 16:05:50 gko: It is not a replacement for asdf. 16:05:56 mpederse` [~user@70.90.14.154] has joined #lisp 16:06:22 -!- mpedersen [~user@70.90.14.154] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:25 gko: Answers to these questions are on the Quicklisp web page, too. 16:06:31 Xach: I see. As said, it's more like a package manager. 16:08:44 drdo [~user@bl9-129-47.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:10:21 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:12:22 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:14 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 16:14:44 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:18:27 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 16:20:06 -!- getgrnam [~igibson@128.249.96.15] has left #lisp 16:20:44 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:22:58 -!- andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:26:53 longshot_ [~longshot@180.184.8.173] has joined #lisp 16:29:14 -!- longshot [~longshot@174.36.149.237-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:14 -!- longshot_ is now known as longshot 16:31:12 -!- tmh [639725e8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 16:33:22 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:33:52 mitre_ [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 16:34:51 tmh [639725e8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:38:06 -!- gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:40:00 morning 16:41:21 gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:26 Hey slyrus 16:41:56 any named-readtables users around? 16:42:01 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-169-135-129.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:42:40 i use it 16:42:47 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:43:16 slyrus pasted "named-readtables test" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119092 16:43:49 stassats: any chance you could put that in a buffer and C-c C-k it _twice_? 16:44:00 -!- Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:44:11 (or just tell me what the hell I'm doing wrong :) ) 16:44:21 Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #lisp 16:45:15 it says "Overwriting already existing readtable #." 16:45:34 ok, but other than that it works? 16:45:53 it leaves the reader in an usable state for me :( 16:46:16 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 16:46:50 slyrus: /s/usable/unusable/ ? 16:46:50 yes, it works 16:47:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-39.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:47:53 sorry Kruppe, yes, unusable. 16:47:55 hrm... 16:48:19 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:38 "The value :|EXECUTE)| is not of type LIST." 16:48:46 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:48:53 stassats: and you get that "overwriting..." warning both times? 16:49:05 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:49:11 no, only the first time 16:49:17 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:49:18 i mean only the second time 16:49:42 hmm... I get that warning the first time. 16:49:49 if you compile it a third time? 16:50:10 third, fourth and fifth, the same as the second time 16:50:32 SBCL? 16:50:40 yes 16:50:42 slyrus: I got "The value |()| is not of type LIST." 16:50:53 leifw [~leif@ool-18bac7df.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:56 FWIW, I get the same error the first time and everytime. 16:51:11 Kruppe: that's good, I think. I mean, it's bad, but at least I'm not (completely) insane 16:51:20 But with cmucl. 16:51:31 ok, thanks rtoym 16:51:43 slyrus: haha yeah, not being completely insane is always good. 16:51:49 slyrus: I'm on sbcl btw 16:51:51 I wonder if it's because %clear-readtable isn't doing what it's supposed to do. 16:52:11 bbl. 16:53:23 on an unrelated note, defreadtable macro wraps its result in (eval-when (:load-toplevel :execute)), which makes no sense to do 16:54:52 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-xgrfensjbvojogvd] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:55:42 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:51 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:55:52 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl9-131-206.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:55:53 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:23 oh, i'm sorry, i've missed the style warning the first time (it goes past slime for some reason) 16:57:00 -!- Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:42 Thuntap [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/thuntap] has joined #lisp 16:57:55 rtoym: yes, commenting out that %clear-readtable call fixes the problem (well, the symptoms anyway) 16:57:57 ncie catch! 16:58:03 ok, i understand why it missed slime: since it's in eval-when :everything, it's executed two times, first during compile time and the second during load time, but slime doesn't catch load time errors 16:59:35 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:00:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-44.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:01:31 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.46] has joined #lisp 17:02:05 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host125-185-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:03:11 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:04:56 -!- mitre_ [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 17:05:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-016.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:06:41 Joreji [~thomas@93-005.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:07:00 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:07:00 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75467f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:28 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:00 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 17:11:21 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:12:15 -!- leifw [~leif@ool-18bac7df.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:17 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:12:21 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:28 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:13:39 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@91-84-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:05 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.77.103] has joined #lisp 17:14:18 leifw [~leif@ool-18bac7df.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:49 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@60.212.74.186] has joined #lisp 17:16:50 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:17:40 -!- mega1 [~quassel@2001:470:1f05:548:215:58ff:fe7d:773b] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:18:18 twem2_ [~AndChat@zeppelin.mxtelecom.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:05 -!- Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:19:27 -!- leifw [~leif@ool-18bac7df.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:20:10 -!- zickzackv [~zickzackv@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: home] 17:22:28 i'm trying to understand something, i have a (defvar *commands* '(#'test-func)). then (functionp #'test-func) => T, and I don't get why: (functionp (car *commands*)) => NIL. is defvar wrong in this case? 17:23:29 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 17:23:53 trigen: *commands* is ((FUNCTION TEST-FUNC)) 17:24:00 try (list #'test-func) instead 17:24:06 trigen: ' inhibits evaluation 17:24:13 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-216-111.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:24:48 -!- ttb [~frinnn@i59F62F6D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:24:57 ohh okay, of course, thanks 17:24:59 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 17:25:26 Does quicklisp's version of slime have any special goodness not in the CVS HEAD? (i.e., integration with quicklisp of some kind or another)? 17:25:48 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:25:51 algal: no. 17:26:06 Xach: thx 17:26:19 Xach: are you Mr Quicklisp himself, btw? 17:26:34 I do wear the Quicklisp t-shirt from time to time 17:27:06 Awesome. well, thanks for writing it or helping it or wearing the t-shirt. 17:27:12 QL has got me excited about CL agian. 17:28:12 quicklisp t-shrit? where? 17:28:29 yeah, I would totally buy one of those. 17:28:43 they are unfortunately overpriced (though high-quality) 17:29:06 http://www.zazzle.com/quicklisp_tshirt-235796516795932452 17:29:50 ttb [~frinnn@i59F6171E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:02 http://www.flickr.com/photos/xach/4936434198/ has a product shot 17:30:47 heh: If The Gods didn't intend for us to use multiple namespaces, why did They specify them? 17:31:31 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:31:51 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32:43 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:33:05 -!- dabd [~dabd@2001:690:2100:1c:21e:65ff:fe49:7c12] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:33:09 slyrus: I'm also here now 17:33:42 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:34:02 hey tcr1, cool 17:34:47 astoon [~astoon@109.188.238.16] has joined #lisp 17:36:00 did you get my email? 17:36:11 ah, yes you did. thanks. 17:38:09 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:39:38 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75467f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:19 tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.15.198] has joined #lisp 17:41:35 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@60.212.74.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:42:05 can we just clobber the call to %clear-readtable? 17:42:07 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.238.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:42:16 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75467f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:42 You need it for proper redefinition 17:45:21 it certainly isn't proper now :) at least not with SLIME 17:46:00 yeah but I'm pretty sure it's an insufficiency in slime, or the kludge I use to get some form of integration at all 17:46:22 it buggers me not to be able to just think through it and to come up with the exact case 17:46:37 I'm also buggered that some chap occupies my nick all the time and I have to manually ghost it 17:46:40 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 17:47:19 -!- tcr1 is now known as tcr 17:49:09 heh 17:49:13 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@60.212.74.186] has joined #lisp 17:50:01 %clear-readtable seems wrong though 17:50:21 tcr: freenode allows for you to link nicks together 17:50:35 So that you can just change nicks from one to the other with automatic ghosting 17:50:46 for SBCL we evaluate both the #+sbcl and #+common-lisp cases 17:52:12 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 17:52:17 slyrus: define-cruft will pick the first form 17:52:17 tcr, memo from rtoym: I have a few patches/fixes for named-readtables for cmucl, but I don't know where to send them. 17:52:33 pnq [~nick@host-231.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 17:52:59 slyrus: I find that way of conditional definition cute, but it also confused stassats to no end :-) 17:53:56 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:54:00 rtoym: there's an editor-hints mailing list, also available via gmane. Look into its archive, stassats sent some cmucl related patch a month ago. 17:54:32 i gave rtoym the link to my mail yesterday 17:55:32 tcr: so, what is the intent of defreadtable expanding into (eval-when (:load-toplevel :execute) ...)? 17:55:37 it's the same as PROGN 17:57:51 to kind of hint that it does not have compile-time effects intentionally 17:58:53 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@60.212.74.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:59:38 then i totally missed this hint 18:00:17 Did slyrus paste the snippet the sent to me via email? 18:00:43 tcr: slyrus pasted "named-readtables test" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119092 18:00:44 yes 18:00:52 You might want to take a look at it and think through it why it does not play nice with in-package expanding to adjusting swank:*readtable-alist* 18:01:04 -!- vokoda` [~user@host109-152-179-136.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:15 I'm busy sorry :-) 18:01:19 panike [~nwp@fw.lmcg.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 18:01:24 mega1 [~quassel@2001:470:1f05:548:215:58ff:fe7d:773b] has joined #lisp 18:03:16 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@airmarshal-v213-228-360.airyork.yorku.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:36 Zephyrus [~emanuele@2001:5c0:1400:a::73f] has joined #lisp 18:03:37 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@2001:5c0:1400:a::73f] has quit [Changing host] 18:03:37 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:03:46 ah, so we're stomping on the readtable but swank keeps a reference to it in *readtable-alist* 18:05:09 redefining via defreadtable makes sure to mutate the original readtable object 18:05:30 that plus some eval-whenery might be the insight to solve the puzzle 18:06:25 If there is anyone bored and wouldn't mind helping by pointing out places I messed up in https://github.com/wraithan/todo-checker (it works but having others look over my jira-utils taught me quite a bit so I thought I'd try that again) 18:06:50 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:07:27 -!- twem2_ [~AndChat@zeppelin.mxtelecom.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:08:39 I could see an argument for passing the path to the todo file, or a stream to check to missing-tickets, rather than having it load automatically, but that is pretty much the only thing I could see 18:08:51 Wraithan: It's a sufficiently simple project that I wouldn't have bothered with the separate file for the package definition... Or, possibly, the README. It looks like you leak the file descriptor used for your input file, have you looked at WITH-OPEN-FILE? 18:09:07 -!- panike [~nwp@fw.lmcg.wisc.edu] has left #lisp 18:09:27 and file-length will lie for non-single byte characters 18:09:53 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@60.212.74.186] has joined #lisp 18:09:55 and the definition of missing-tickets is dubious, what is it supposed to do? 18:10:09 Wraithan: You might consider defining a parameter *default-todo-file* and having an optional parameter (todo-file *default-todo-file*) to MISSING-TICKETS (passed to GET-TODO-LIST) for the file to read from. 18:11:09 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 18:12:29 I would probably have used LOOP instead of ITERATE, but that's closer to a style choice. 18:13:01 Those are probably the main things. 18:13:24 -!- algal [~anonymous@92.26.7.209] has quit [Quit: algal] 18:14:16 vilsonvieira [~vilson@187.58.255.56] has joined #lisp 18:15:29 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:57 astoon [~astoon@109.188.226.20] has joined #lisp 18:16:23 in any case, using DELETE on a list you're iterating on is wrong 18:16:24 nyef: I hadn't seen with-open-file, I'll look into that. The default parameter seems like a good idea, it may make it more generally useful if someone decides they want to use this for their own needs 18:16:37 <_8david> I like iterate a lot, but wouldn't have used iteration here. remove-if or delete-if seem better choices. 18:16:40 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:20 stassats: the file-length thing certainly is a problem, do you have a better way to do that, or am I stuck doing the read-line iteration myself? 18:17:22 Right, I'd have collected the tickets that didn't match into a new list... But I'd still probably have used iteration. 18:17:44 Wraithan: alexandria:read-file-into-string 18:18:47 <_8david> or possibly just set-difference after splitting the string, if the string contains a separated list of tickets 18:18:48 ah, i could collect, I didn't see a problem in deleting from the list I was iterating on since it would be the current element, but I don't know the underlying implementation of ITER (or LOOP) to know if that would have been dangerous 18:21:55 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:21:59 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:22:05 Wraithan: in that case I usually do: (loop for x in list when (foop x) collect x into foos else collect x into rest finally (return (values foo rest)), which you can abstract out into a function named PARTITION 18:22:14 -!- sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:22 sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 18:22:30 gemelen_ [~shelta@shpd-92-101-144-214.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 18:22:48 jdz [~jdz@host229-70-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:23:02 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.226.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:23:18 mephisto_ [~mephisto@airmarshal-v213-228-360.airyork.yorku.ca] has joined #lisp 18:23:55 kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has joined #lisp 18:24:00 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsley045.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:25:35 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-144-214.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:26:03 does anyone know the minimal glibc version required to run sbcl 1.0.42 and above? i have a customer with an old machine that he won't upgrade that uses glibc 2.3.4; sbcl 1.0.42 and above fail various posix-related tests with that version. 18:27:17 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:31 if he won't upgrade, does it matter? 18:28:45 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 18:29:21 upgrade in the sense of moving off of his ancient version of centos. i might be able to get glibc modernized if i can figure which version od=s required 18:29:45 <_8david> what sort of test failures? 18:30:01 2.12.2 works for me 18:30:51 stassats: 2.11.1 also works 18:31:14 Bronsa [~brace@host125-185-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:31:25 particularly the sb-posix-tests::fcntl.flock tests 18:33:20 with a syscall error 18:33:23 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@airmarshal-v213-228-360.airyork.yorku.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:05 -!- mega1 [~quassel@2001:470:1f05:548:215:58ff:fe7d:773b] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:36:08 full error: https://gist.github.com/798954 18:37:58 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:39:00 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:44:25 You could always use this as an excuse to force him/her to upgrade their old system to something newer :) 18:45:12 -!- sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:45:16 kraison: you could try and build a new sbcl on an old enough box. 18:45:33 TDT: unfortunately, there are strange gov't auditors (FDA) who will require a rather ridiculous validation and verification process if we upgrade the OS. they won't know if we upgrade glibc. 18:46:15 ahh, I see 18:47:16 pkhuong: that is what i am trying to do. compilation succeeds, but these two tests fail. i am wondering how significant these failures are. 18:48:37 sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 18:49:18 this may sound odd, but did you try the linux binary build already? 18:49:27 The one that's on the site..the actual binary version? 18:49:50 yeah; it needs a newer libc 18:49:55 :( 18:50:37 i have been able to use 1.0.36-binary, but not 1.0.42 and above (and 1.0.42 and above have all sorts of nice concurrency primitives that i need) 18:51:04 <_8david> things to keep in mind: 1. a libc upgrade is a dangerous thing to do; processes and regulations are usually there for a reason. 2. why attempt a libc upgrade if you haven't checked what the error is actually about and whether it's related to the libc? 18:51:14 <_8david> 3. what if it's a kernel issue? 4. SBCL itself doesn't even use sb-posix; does your software need any part of that contrib which is affected? 18:51:32 sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 18:52:02 <_8david> 5. does your app run if you just touch test-passed and install? 18:54:01 _8david: those are all excellent points. i am attempting to answer #5 at the moment. 18:55:17 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:56:02 _8david: as for #4, my code doesn't explicitly use flock-ing (which are the tests that fail), but i did not know that sbcl itself does not rely on the posix module. 18:56:37 _8david: knowing that makes this far less important. thanks for the informtion! 18:58:27 <_8david> Might be worth checking whether the normal (non-contrib) tests show any issues though. 19:00:21 On x86 and x86-64 linux, the full test suite typically only has two failures. 19:01:11 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:23 -!- sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:04:36 any errors sound bad. 19:04:48 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-69-136-131-95.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:21 andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #lisp 19:05:26 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:06:24 sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 19:07:46 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:08:13 leifw [~leif@64.134.40.19] has joined #lisp 19:08:37 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 19:09:57 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:10:18 frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:10 -!- longshot [~longshot@180.184.8.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:52 -!- sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:13:37 panike [~nwp@cedric.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 19:14:53 TDT: There are two tests (package system tests) marked as :fails-on :sbcl, to do with reporting errors during certain package-system operations. They're more cosmetic than anything else at this point. 19:15:30 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-12-27.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:02 So it's a markeing issue: they're not failures, they're alternative passes! Or, perahps, Opportunities for Improvement! 19:16:34 Yes, opportunities for improvement. 19:18:40 -!- frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:48 sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 19:19:57 jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:22:09 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:27:11 heh 19:28:13 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-30-99.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:29:27 Best Effort test results 19:30:45 Fair Use correctness 19:33:25 adarnimrod_ [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-209-98.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:55 -!- adarnimrod_ [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-209-98.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:34:04 mephisto_ [~mephisto@kb-v832-130-63-234-386.airyork.yorku.ca] has joined #lisp 19:34:50 adarnimrod_ [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-209-98.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:58 -!- adarnimrod_ [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-209-98.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:36:40 adarnimrod_ [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-209-98.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:17 Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:43 -!- adarnimrod_ [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-209-98.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:38:18 adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-209-98.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:32 huangho [~vitor@201-41-12-144.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:38:46 thanks to everyone for the assistance. the core sbcl tests pass (except for the Fair Use correctness tests) and my code appears to run without issues. 19:39:05 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:40:59 -!- andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Quit: andares] 19:41:25 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:16 -!- panike [~nwp@cedric.cs.wisc.edu] has left #lisp 19:45:49 andares [~sgd5@152.3.68.5] has joined #lisp 19:45:49 -!- andares [~sgd5@152.3.68.5] has quit [Changing host] 19:45:49 andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #lisp 19:45:59 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-179-70.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Quit: be back later] 19:47:28 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 19:50:45 -!- sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:51:05 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:55:04 sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 19:58:19 Evet [~Evet@78.191.22.99] has joined #lisp 19:59:27 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:59:47 i feel lisp is better than c when it comes to process graph data 20:00:23 Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.213] has joined #lisp 20:00:32 i feel lisp is always better, but what do i know, i'm a smug lisp weenie 20:00:43 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@133.92-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:00:44 -!- brickhazel [~brickhaze@63-144-132-79.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:05 Evet: it depends on a lot of factors. 20:01:29 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:01:33 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-152-12.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 20:01:48 timor [~timor@port-92-195-131-54.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:03:17 smug lisp weenies unite! 20:03:50 I united at ILC but there weren't a lot of other weenies uniting with me. Rude. 20:04:02 Lisp is better than C for me because I've been using lisp almost exclusively for several years and have trouble thinking about code in C. 20:04:15 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:35 just imagine doing all your work on a big vector of (unsigned-byte 8) 20:07:44 -!- kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:07:51 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-69-136-131-95.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:58 -!- andares [~sgd5@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:08:21 No generic functions, type declarations, explicit memory management, unless you use some library. What about argument lists, I remember having to use varargs, has C99 improved on that? 20:08:24 -!- jdz [~jdz@host229-70-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:08:54 One giant namespace. 20:08:57 no exception system and no multiple values are the greatest buggers I feel 20:09:55 tmh: I suppose you can use "static" to define file-level scoping. Sort of a poor man's namespace. 20:10:14 And the biggie, the edit-save-compile-execute loop. 20:10:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-005.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:26 tmh: yeah, that's the backbreaker. 20:10:40 Totally ruins my train of thought. 20:11:28 and no LOOP 20:11:32 I work on a c++ codebase where if you need to change certain header files it kicks off a 1.5 hour compile cycle. 20:11:45 Maybe 45 minutes if you're lucky with an incremental compile. 20:11:55 sounds like nyef bisecting sbcl 20:12:08 algal: Those are billable hours, right? ;-) 20:12:25 yes, they are! :) 20:12:50 in good old days you had to wait more to even get to a computer 20:13:30 http://xkcd.com/303/ 20:13:54 Yeah, that's a good one. 20:13:56 it doesn't work with lisp :( 20:15:19 stassats time to switch to another language 20:15:31 haskell maybe? 20:15:45 Haha I was about to suggest that 20:15:53 But I remained silent 20:16:04 Because I didn't want to attract any hatred/start a language war 20:16:05 and the excuse would be "i'm learning monads!"? 20:16:11 *kfr* is currently learning Haskell, it's very painful 20:16:17 stassats haha 20:19:55 -!- leifw [~leif@64.134.40.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:21:04 stassats: what about haskell? 20:21:21 nothing, let's talk about lisp! 20:21:44 stassats: a language like modula 2, beautiful but used by none :) 20:21:55 maybe haskell and lisp are secret lovers. 20:22:02 stassats: alas modula 2 isn't so much charming 20:22:33 haskell (miranda) was written in lisp! 20:28:29 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 20:31:48 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-103-181.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 20:32:49 stassats: Can I ask you a few questions about named-readtables? 20:33:24 rtoym: you surely can 20:34:39 In slyrus's example, I'm getting conflicts too. I'm trying to figure out what's causing the problem. What does *empty-readtable* contain? 20:35:32 (Only some of the macro characters cause conflicts.) 20:35:33 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 20:36:07 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 20:37:23 what characters? i don't seem to have any conflicts with slyrus's code 20:37:41 Hold on. 20:38:05 are you trying on sbcl or cmucl? 20:38:12 cmucl. 20:38:41 i'm on sbcl 20:39:04 -!- Intensity [bEIq5iMIzn@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Quit: Intensity] 20:40:55 The conflicting characters are ", #, dispatch macro # with tab, page, return, space, #, ', (, ), *, +, -, ., :, <, =, and so on. 20:41:08 I'm guessing *empty-readtable* isn't as empty as it should be. 20:43:16 mascotte [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-10-193.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:44:12 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:16 rtoym: which code? 20:50:19 leifw [~leif@ool-18bac6ad.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:41 I'm trying to get named-readtables to work with cmucl. 20:50:48 ver 0.9 20:51:05 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:11 -!- talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:51:11 rtoym: see the comment about sbcl in cruft.lisp on (define-cruft %clear-readtable) 20:51:28 I'd guess cmucl has the same problem 20:51:34 Interesting. %clear-readtables skipped over code 8, 10, 12, 13. 20:51:52 I copied that already. 20:52:15 also is this caught by the test suite? if not, I'd appreciate if you cook up a test case for each thing you fix 20:52:22 Maybe my hacked %make-readtable-iterator (based on the sbcl one) is broken. 20:52:26 La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 20:52:38 -!- antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-evyjhphhfurjceot] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:59 The testsuite is what got me here. If I use :fuze to create my readtable, it works just fine. 20:53:36 good to know :-) I tried hard to make the test suite comprehensive 20:54:39 -!- zmv [~daniel@187.57.23.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:54:44 zmv [~daniel@189-47-121-179.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:55:24 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-179-70.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:56:39 %clear-readtable is pretty slow too. 20:57:08 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:58:53 With specially provided readtable iterators? 20:59:03 -!- leifw [~leif@ool-18bac6ad.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00:05 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:09 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.221.4] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 21:01:21 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3316.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:28 hi 21:01:40 Hello prxq. 21:01:45 hi tmh 21:02:15 -!- sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:38 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:03:57 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 21:05:29 silenius [~silenus@p4FC22C1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:11 sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 21:06:46 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-103-181.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:08:10 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:51 Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-29-66.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:08:56 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:09:09 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:49 anyone interested in the named-readtable problem I mentioned earlier still around? 21:12:01 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:12:02 yeah 21:12:25 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:38 hey tcr 21:13:12 so... the fix is to swap the order in which we clobber the readtable and issue the "this readtable already exists" warning 21:13:48 otherwise, we issue a warning while we've got a bogus readtable, during which slime pukes 21:14:59 source-path-stream-position calls read-source-form and doesn't like the results it gets (in some cases -- which might explain why I only saw the bug sometimes) 21:15:02 ah 21:15:08 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:15:24 yeah makes sense, still it's actually a bug in slime :-) 21:15:31 but nice to know there's such an easy workaround 21:15:34 well... 21:15:49 there are probably lots of things that aren't going to be too happy if you clobber the readtable 21:15:56 no it is, the readtable should not be in effect on the defreadtable form 21:15:58 astoon [~astoon@109.188.231.135] has joined #lisp 21:16:00 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host125-185-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:16:15 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:18 because the in-readtable comes afterwards textually 21:16:41 no, because you frob it thusly: (setq readtable (%clear-readtable readtable)) 21:17:07 so? :-) 21:17:12 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:17:23 the problem is that that readtable is bound to *readtable* via *readtable-alist* 21:17:35 and that binding is wrong :-) 21:18:33 so you're saying that guess-buffer-readtable shouldn't work as it does? 21:18:35 Nevertheless, swapping the forms is a good idea, could you send a patch to the editor-hints mailinglist (also available via gmane) 21:18:50 yeah, I'll subscribe and send. 21:19:20 slyrus: named-readtables should not use swank:*readtable-alist*, but slime should come with a contrib with proper named-readtables support 21:19:53 do you know about slime-buffer-package, slime-find-buffer-package on the slime side, and with-buffer-syntax on the swank side? 21:20:07 ie. how slime manages *package*? 21:20:26 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.231.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:20:52 *readtable* should be managed the same way 21:21:24 Odditus [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:22:34 ZabaQ [~Zaba@129.90-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:22 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:40 yeah, I think I see what you're getting at 21:25:27 -!- Odditus [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:30 -!- splittist [~John@55-62.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 21:27:42 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:27:56 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:28:08 tcr: Yes. I copied the sbcl one for cmucl. I ought to be fast. I'm probably not taking advantage of the fact that the hash table is usually empty. 21:28:21 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 21:29:56 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@187.58.255.56] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:30:04 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-16.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:32:33 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:33:50 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 21:34:56 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75467f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Quit: be back later] 21:35:33 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 21:36:19 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:36:42 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC22C1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:36:50 -!- Landr [~vser@78-21-49-156.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:59 tcr: cmucl stores lisp::read-token for each constituent character too, I think. Should %get-macro-character be changed for cmucl. 21:40:47 yeah I guess so 21:49:50 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Quit: be back later] 21:49:58 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 21:50:52 is there a straightforward way to get asdf to spit out all its search directories? 21:51:06 algal: asdf:*central-registry* should be it 21:51:16 The ASDF docs make the search process sound mindbendingly complex. 21:51:23 antifuchs: but is that deprecated? 21:52:36 ooh 21:52:42 section 7.10 suggests as much: http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/Controlling-where-ASDF-searches-for-systems.html#Controlling-where-ASDF-searches-for-systems 21:52:59 But the alternative mechanism is like phd thesis. 21:53:02 oh. that. yes, that's complex 21:53:28 I have no idea about that, sorry. it used to be *central-registry*; and there's still libraries putting things on that (: 21:53:30 too complex for me at least. 21:53:37 I suspect they do that because it still works reliably (: 21:53:40 quicklisp uses it. 21:53:55 yeah, or they couldn't wrap their head around the alternative. 21:54:03 algal: Sorry, just caught the discussion, did you state your exact problem earlier? 21:54:17 algal: possibly (: 21:54:20 algal: I know I can't (; 21:54:40 algal: I want to ask asdf to tell me the directories it searches for packages. 21:55:02 It's all described in http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/Controlling-where-ASDF-searches-for-systems.html#Controlling-where-ASDF-searches-for-systems , but I'd rather let it do the math since I don't trust myself to understand that document. 21:55:38 algal: Okay, that might be a documentation problem. There is a command, I end up having to look at the code to remember it and I'm not sure it's exported. 21:55:46 Basically, I just want to add a single asdf project not in quicklisp,.. 21:56:05 But I may be hacking this package, so I don't want it to go in a canonical location reserved for stable stuff. 21:56:43 if it's just a single project, I push the dir onto central-registyr 21:56:46 "registry" 21:56:48 algal: If you use (asdf:initialize-source-registry), it will return the list of directories. 21:57:34 looks indeed fairly complex/ 21:57:56 highly engineered? 21:58:00 I spent the time a couple weeks ago learning ASDF2 and actually prefer it now. 21:58:09 that's a very positive way of putting it (: 21:58:09 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:58:29 tmh: why? 21:58:41 looks overengineered to me 21:58:52 I think the new configuration is more robust, it just needs a better interface. 21:59:04 robust against what? 21:59:43 tmh: (asdf:initialize-source-registry) doesn't include the directory in asdf:*central-registry*, so it's not returning everything. 21:59:43 prxq: against absence of symlinks on your platform (: 21:59:47 (I'm guessing) 21:59:51 leifw [~leif@ool-44c358f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:00 algal: I think you need to clear a cache first 22:00:07 antifuchs: aah 22:00:11 Robust against OS idiosyncrasies, mainly what antifuchs said. 22:00:34 I'm afraid it's also robust against me using it. :( 22:00:47 algal: Not sure how it interacts with the asdf:*central-registry*, I didn't try to use both at the same time. 22:00:55 algal: I use *central-registry* and it works 22:01:00 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 22:01:04 the day it stops working, I'll migrate 22:01:29 algal: if you figure it out how ASDF does this, I urge you to submit a patch that adds an introspection function for this. 22:01:31 prxq: Hmm.. I think I'll just whack on my own project directory onto *central-registry* and see if that flies. 22:01:34 prxq: It's nice because I can specify the search to include all subdirectories of a directory and individual directories. 22:01:34 -!- pnq [~nick@host-231.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:01:51 that should make it much easier to use & debug 22:02:24 pnq [~nick@ununtrium.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 22:02:26 algal: I make symbolic links into a directrory that is in *central-registry*. Have a script for doing that. 22:02:38 antifuchs: that was sarcastic, right? :-) 22:02:54 prxq: what? the request to add that function? definitely not. 22:03:08 tmh pasted "Example ASDF2 Source Config" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119119 22:03:10 ah, the introspection function. Sorry. 22:03:44 yeah 22:04:04 algal: Did you include :inherit-configuration at the end of your source configuration? 22:04:23 tmh: I'm embarrassed to admit I'm still hunting for my source configuration. 22:04:43 algal: It won't be there unless you create it. What OS are you on? 22:04:48 osx 22:05:02 talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has joined #lisp 22:05:47 algal: Oh, way to pick the 1 out of 3 that I can't help you with. ;-) 22:06:10 be glad i didn't say plan 9 22:06:12 tmh: your directory there is called "Fatigue Damage" including the space? 22:06:34 prxq: Yes, "Root Model Generator" as well. 22:06:41 I see. 22:07:08 alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@mobile-166-137-140-031.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:40 I wish the docs had 1/2 the description and 3x the examples 22:07:50 prxq: That's the benefit of storing the path as a list. 22:08:14 algal: http://paste.lisp.org/+2JWW I use this in my code and it works pretty well to customize the search path. not exactly an answer to your question though... but i think you can maybe modify it to ask what directory it should look into 22:08:16 osx does not have symbolic links? I thought they had wisened up and became a unix 22:08:17 algal: Yeah, that's a good critique. In defense, at least there is documentation beyond the source code. 22:08:37 prxq: it does 22:08:47 tmh: critiques are cheap. I should shutup and just fiddle with it a bit. 22:08:56 prxq: but that doesn't make symlinks a good thing to use for this kind of hting (: 22:08:56 antifuchs: so why the baroqueness? I frankly do not understand 22:09:03 (my directories move all the time) 22:09:24 antifuchs: so you keep editing that config file? 22:09:27 it's easy to keep track of my project if I move them from one dir to another, and both are being searched by asdf 22:09:31 no need to edit that file 22:09:57 so now it does a find ~/lisp/ -name foo.asd kind of thing? 22:10:05 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:10:15 I see. 22:10:19 prxq: Reliance on symbolic links has always been a problem for ASDF on Windows. You should have seen the nasty lispworks config file hack I had in place to handle ASDF sources on Windows. 22:10:26 pretty much. I would like to have it limit the depth, though 22:10:39 antifuchs: I think you can limit the depth. 22:10:53 tmh: I'd love to know how (: 22:11:17 when reading docs, I didn't see how to do it 22:11:48 antifuchs: Let me double check. I had to read through the code some time back and get confused by what's in the code and the docs. I also get confused by what's exported and not. 22:12:26 -!- opoku [~opoku@static-96-235-41-86.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: opoku] 22:12:32 antifuchs: why do you keep renaming directories? I'm really curious, because I do that so very rarely. 22:13:24 for those following along at home, adding ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf with a (:source-registry (:tree "/path")) broke quicklisp, so it seems you need to choose just one of the possible config modes 22:13:27 algal: Read section 7.12 TODO of the ASDF manual. 22:13:30 or else harmonize them somewhow. 22:13:48 algal: A single bullet "Add examples" 22:13:55 tmh: the bullet to my head. 22:14:02 :-) 22:14:09 i am shocked. It looks like asdf was somehow tinkered to brokenness 22:14:25 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:14:28 well, not that shocked, actually 22:14:29 it'll do email soon. 22:14:41 prxq: I start out in ~/Desktop/, then as they become released projects, move them to ~/Hacks/ 22:14:59 prxq: I don't think asdf was that non-broken to begin with 22:15:06 it's like a rubik's cube. 22:15:53 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:16:37 well, at least fare kept the filename fanatics at bay. Otherwise we would be tinkering with *;**;***xxx madness 22:17:33 yeah. the way I see it is rpg and Fare are improving it in the long run by pessimizing it in the short term 22:18:31 I'm glad *central-registry* and quicklisp work, and have kept me shielded from all that 22:18:50 -!- alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@mobile-166-137-140-031.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: alexsuraci_] 22:19:03 I wonder if there should be a kind of defsystem designed explicitly without the power user in mind. 22:19:11 prxq: Yes, I am looking forward to my new, quicklisp-enabled lifestyle. 22:19:17 what, you mean ASDF isn't just that? 22:19:47 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:52 antifuchs: it looks like it is morphing into some power-user thing. Or do I have it all wrong? 22:19:57 alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@mobile-166-137-140-031.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:04 I imagine myself scuttling out into the wilds of raw asdf installations like a man darting out of a gated compound for a quick errand, watchful and nervous. 22:21:10 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-216-111.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:21:11 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:21:32 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:22:15 we're probably exaggerating a bit here. looking thru that doc, it seems like he's bending over backwards to make it conform to (hoped for) directory standards. And there's a fairly straightforward path syntax that needs some examples. the page is just too hard to read now because it's a long description when a list of magic directories and a few examples would suffice. 22:22:44 could probably get the "what I need to do to use it?" info across in one screen. 22:22:50 ..... if I knew what it was. 22:23:05 xan_ [~xan@169.Red-83-52-52.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:10 antifuchs: do you know why http://paste.lisp.org/display/119119 uses so many keywords? What is wrong with a list of paths? 22:23:29 algal: you wanted to load a system defined by an .asd, right? 22:23:37 prxq: yes. 22:24:16 algal: did you try *central-registry*? 22:24:21 prxq: i wanted to point asdf at a directory for that system, which I expect to be modifying, rather than putting the system in a magic standard directory. But now I'd settle for anything which didn't break quicklisp. 22:24:37 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.45.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:24:50 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:24:50 algal: a symbolic link in a magic directory does not break when you edit the actual file 22:24:50 I really need to evaluate quicklisp. 22:25:03 -!- marijnjh [~user@p5DDB0E6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:43 prxq: yeah, but the magic directory with the standardsically correct .conf file just broke quicklisp. so I'm going to try just using *central-registry* like you suggested. I avoided it at first b/c the doc made it sound deprecated. 22:26:05 algal: quicklisp uses the *central-registry* ? 22:26:09 yes 22:26:15 Ah, okay. 22:26:29 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.48.20] has joined #lisp 22:27:06 prxq: what do you mean, so many keywords? 22:27:08 like :home? 22:27:15 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@129.90-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:17 yes, the docs make it sound deprecated, which is bad 22:27:36 antifuchs: :home, :inherit-configuration, etc 22:27:38 antifuchs: I couldn't find anything on depth, I may have been confusing desired feature with implemented feature. :-) 22:27:48 tmh: too bad 22:27:52 but maybe some day 22:27:54 :depth :directory 22:28:07 quicklisp ships its own asdf, so Xach can control when he deprecates central-registry for himself (; 22:28:11 task simple, tool baroque 22:28:37 prxq: I don't think it's that simple, given the constraints the ASDF maintainers have chosen for themselves 22:28:48 but well, you can try making your own power-user oriented defsystem (: 22:29:32 antifuchs: precisely the other way around. Normal users with normal needs (which may be pretty advanced) shouldn't be burdened in this way 22:29:52 well, then go ahead and build that (: 22:30:07 I've tried - it's far from simple, and I'm not sure I could do it in my spare time 22:30:18 or fix asdf! fare is looking for a new maintainer 22:30:36 I'm pretty sure it's going to get stuck in half-done limbo again when he really runs out of steam 22:30:57 thanks for the help, chaps. I'm going to try to sort this on the next go around. 22:30:59 (like it was during Gary's maintainership) 22:31:07 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 22:31:14 gozoner [~ebg@64.134.237.180] has joined #lisp 22:31:21 prxq: I think an introduction document a few convenience functions would go a long way towards simplifying it for a new user. 22:31:34 "the return of the ad-hoc loader", coming to a cinema near you 22:31:37 :-) 22:32:01 I doubt it - in a world where quicklisp it slowly taking over (thankfully), I don't see many people switching too easily (: 22:32:15 that's true. 22:32:20 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@kb-v832-130-63-234-386.airyork.yorku.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:23 including the thankfully 22:32:43 I wouldn't want to take the wind out of quicklisp's sails, but I would also hate to have asdf be stuck in half-done limbo (: 22:33:25 antifuchs: How is it half-done? 22:33:56 tmh: it isn't, but there are improvements that need to be made (like the functions / document you mentioned) that aren't getting done 22:34:08 it'll only get worse as the years wear on, like it has before 22:34:15 so it's in all our best interest to keep asdf going (: 22:34:19 and going strong 22:35:02 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 22:35:10 -!- leifw [~leif@ool-44c358f4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:35:56 antifuchs: Okay. 22:36:00 "we" are the village, asdf is the dragon? :) 22:36:18 "we" are the village, asdf is the cathedral (: 22:36:24 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-170-220.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:36:38 antifuchs: that doesn't sound right :) 22:37:02 I shudder to think what kind of things are worshipped in there! 22:37:08 we're building it, and it has the potential to attract visitors (: 22:37:29 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:37:49 substitute any tourist attraction for the cathedral metaphor (: 22:37:54 antifuchs: that http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/Controlling-where-ASDF-searches-for-systems.html#Controlling-where-ASDF-searches-for-systems looks like human sacrifice :-) 22:37:58 I think the best way forward is to (1) tighten up the docs and interface and (2) ensure that quicklisp does 80% of what people need from ASDF so they never have to know about it. 22:38:01 to return from the land of wayward metaphors, asdf is not at all bad, and wasn't bad when it was "stagnating" either 22:38:04 haha 22:38:11 cmm: yeah, it was good enough 22:38:23 The other 20% that need to dig into ASDF can read the docs. 22:38:26 but it could have been so much better. now that it's a bit better, it still could be better (: 22:38:44 HG` [~HG@xdsley045.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:39:15 i am not so sure it is better. It now can handle the requirement of keeping version specific local mods or whatever, at the price of making it harder for everyone else. That does not sound right 22:39:49 maybe that's a wrong impression i get from the docs. I really hope so. 22:39:54 rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:05 prxq: like I said, feel free improve. it seems to work better for a bunch of people - and annoying bugs got fixed. 22:40:07 tmh: the quicklisp quickproject guide got me 95% of the way there for my pretty simple projects 22:40:10 it's not a negative-sum thing. 22:40:50 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-152.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:41:03 -!- zmv [~daniel@189-47-121-179.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:41:04 Wraithan: Cool. So quicklisp will handle 95% of what the standard user needs from ASDF and the rest can read the docs. If 95% of people learning/using lisp never have to know about ASDF, that's pretty awesome. 22:41:47 -!- Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 22:42:03 I had to know about asdf to setup my path for local systems, but the quickproject tutorial mentioned it and made it super easy so I could just (ql:quickload ...) my projects 22:42:47 I guess you'll still have to know how to write a system definition. 22:42:52 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-205-154.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:44:00 kinda, the stuff that the quickproject tutorial mentioned was all that I needed 22:44:21 really that tutorial + quicklisp made it stupid simple to get off the ground and start running 22:44:45 Hello lispers! For your edification: 22:44:46 (and (notany #'characterp "") (every #'characterp "")) => t 22:45:18 mon_key: well, no surprise. 22:45:34 francogrex [~user@109.130.79.60] has joined #lisp 22:45:35 { : Yep, i got a handle on the beast now! 22:45:41 cool (: 22:47:16 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:50:54 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:54 leifw [~leif@ool-44c358f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:54 opoku [~opoku@c-98-219-224-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:35 -!- mascotte [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-10-193.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 22:52:19 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-131-54.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:26 mon_key: and (values (some #'characterp "") (notevery #'characterp "")) => NIL, NIL 22:54:20 or just (some x "") 22:54:23 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A306D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:03 -!- leifw [~leif@ool-44c358f4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:57:49 -!- tmh [639725e8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 22:58:42 -!- sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:48 and which can be called "identity" 23:00:22 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:00:24 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3316.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:02:22 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.77.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:33 sabalaba [~sabalaba@173-10-44-57-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.75.4] has joined #lisp 23:03:46 sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 23:03:55 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:04:58 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@60.212.74.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:05:52 opoku_ [~opoku@128.237.141.63] has joined #lisp 23:06:02 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:50 Good morning everyone! 23:07:38 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:39 -!- opoku [~opoku@c-98-219-224-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:08:39 -!- opoku_ is now known as opoku 23:10:37 opoku_ [~opoku@c-98-219-224-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:58 stassats: I don't understand what you mean by identity. 23:11:25 huangho_ [~vitor@201-66-166-250.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:11:50 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-41-12-144.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:12:25 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053000207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:12:47 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@60.212.74.186] has joined #lisp 23:14:11 -!- opoku [~opoku@128.237.141.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:14:11 -!- opoku_ is now known as opoku 23:17:24 mephisto_ [~mephisto@airmarshal-v829-184-145.airyork.yorku.ca] has joined #lisp 23:17:26 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:05 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:28 Intensity [iRAntZtNnK@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 23:20:20 leifw [~leif@ool-44c358f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:27 -!- leifw [~leif@ool-44c358f4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:25:46 mon_key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_function 23:26:28 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 23:27:02 opoku_ [~opoku@128.237.141.45] has joined #lisp 23:27:18 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Quit: be back later] 23:28:42 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:29:28 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsley045.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:29:43 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-170-220.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:31:28 -!- opoku [~opoku@c-98-219-224-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:31:28 -!- opoku_ is now known as opoku 23:33:38 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:35:23 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.79.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:50 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.15.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:25 leifw [~leif@ool-18bac6ad.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:54 pattern: I understand identity. I just missed the nature of stassats point. 23:41:38 -!- Evet [~Evet@78.191.22.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:45:49 -!- sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:50:09 mon_key: these functions will return their zero element when given an empty sequence, just like (+), (OR) and (AND). 23:50:17 mon_key: it doesn't matter which test you give them. 23:50:58 sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 23:53:00 antifuchs: Oh, I didn't know. Indeed (every 'integerp "") => t 23:53:36 Evet [~Evet@78.191.188.84] has joined #lisp 23:55:51 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:57:05 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-44.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:58:00 since EVERY is the analogue to AND, its zero element is T - you'll get the same answer for the empty list 23:59:28 antifuchs: So whats with the `values'? 23:59:53 in stassats' example?