00:02:25 davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:17 beach: it was at 22:47:56 "22:47:56 antifuchs: I wonder whether one needs to define things like the expected type of the value of :start when the sequence is a list, while not knowing the length of the sequence (or even if that length is well defined)." 00:04:29 -!- l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@uwsclient-143-157.uws.ualberta.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:07:30 mon_key: OK. I need to go (I might stop by a café and come here as `plage'), but this is a very interesting discussion. If I were to make those conditions more general (as opposed to SICL-specific) I would probably try to use a naming convention that is more consistent with the HyperSpec, the way you did. 00:07:31 gonzojive [~red@171.66.87.48] has joined #lisp 00:08:34 beach: the SBCL reference-condition "class" is interesting. FWICG that is what should be incorporated. 00:08:54 and/or extended portably 00:08:58 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 00:09:05 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:26 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-041.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:10:58 vokoda` [~user@host86-150-110-32.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:24 huangho [~vitor@201-35-188-205.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:13:14 -!- vokoda [~user@host86-145-187-197.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:45 vokoda`` [~user@host86-150-110-32.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:39 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 00:15:38 -!- vokoda` [~user@host86-150-110-32.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:08 ok, next question: is there an atompub implementation in lisp? 00:16:36 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A464.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:17:27 plage [~user@222.253.100.125] has joined #lisp 00:17:38 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:20:25 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:20:51 mon_key: OK, but I don't have time to look into that right now. I think it would be important to reach consensus, even if it would have to be with a subset of all the new conditions that are needed. We also need to specify what functions signal what conditions and under what circumstances, and hopefully reach consensus on that aspect as well. 00:21:46 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-176-182.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:22:36 mon_key: If done right, this could become a CDR document. 00:23:23 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:23:59 plage: OK. But just to be clear -- there is nothing in that synopsis that SBCL doesn't provided. All i've done was outline what was already there. 00:24:26 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:25:06 plage: I'm looking at the files of the SICL cons module now. I get why you are interested. 00:25:30 mon_key: Right! I was going to suggest that next. 00:26:44 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:58 mon_key: Hmm, OK, so you are not really interested in turning this into an implementation-independent thing? 00:27:29 plage: I guess attaching SPEC/AMOP refs to conditions is would be best. 00:28:40 The structure for what constitutes an "error" is already well specified. 00:28:42 mon_key: I guess. Though, my point is that the spec is not detailed enough and doesn't provide enough conditions. 00:29:56 plage: Yes, but details aside what constitutes an error can only be either "unspecified" or not. 00:30:44 plage: so the `mapc' compiler macro has a 'must-be-proper-list condition 00:30:45 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.226.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:30:45 Sounds right, but I don't understand the implications of what you are saying. 00:32:52 plage: me either. There is a conditions system. Obv. some useful conditions were left out/unspecified. And, the spec put some barriera between the condition system and CLOS. 00:33:40 Er, what kind of barrier? 00:33:55 conditions aren't standard-class are they? 00:34:28 mon_key: They might not be. But they are fully integrated into CLOS anyway. You can dispatch on them, for instance. 00:35:10 mon_key: But that particular thing is relatively unimportant in my opinion. 00:35:15 Sure, but they're another sort of "class", similar to structure-class. The spec specifically declined to force conditions to depend on CLOS. 00:36:12 so they aren't really "first-class"? 00:36:27 mon_key: Sure, they are! 00:37:08 plage: OK great. So systems can portably introspect upon them? 00:37:23 There's a restriction on defclass, IIRC, and might be one on MAKE-INSTANCE. 00:38:57 mon_key: There is not much portable introspection specified for anything really. 00:39:23 mon_key: What kind of introspection were you thinking of? 00:39:23 nyef: yes, its in the conforming code ... section the condition(Condtion Type) of the ansicl dpans info 00:39:59 plage: A condition "browser". 00:41:32 e.g. flexi defines X condition SBCL defines y condition. I'm using both systems. Maybe I can piggyback a pre-existing condition... 00:41:41 mon_key: You would have to go beyond the spec for that I think. But you do for other objects as well. As I recall, there is no standard way of getting to the slots of a standard-object, for instance. 00:42:02 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.127.144] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 00:42:50 plage: it looks like SICL currenlty provides for alternative language strings for error reporting. 00:43:24 That seems like a kind of condition metadata. 00:43:33 mon_key: It contains the infrastructure for doing so, but I do not have the energy to do the messages in other languages. 00:43:38 :) 00:44:39 mon_key: Condition reporting is specified to be done by methods on print-object. There is nothing strange about it. Condition reporters inside define-condition just represent a shorthand notation. 00:45:38 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:45:49 plage: I'm just wondering how one can have a meta-condition-protocol without a meta-object :P 00:46:29 mon_key: It's too early in the morning for my small brain to be able to reflect on such advanced stuff. 00:47:08 plage: lets say you had a handlist of different condition readers/initargs from different implementations packages etc. 00:47:27 How would you organize/integrate them to benefit SICL? 00:48:46 astoon [~astoon@109.188.226.235] has joined #lisp 00:48:58 mon_key: Not sure. Probably by thinking very hard about each one to make sure it's the right thing to do, and then to specify precise behavior (initargs, readers, superclasses) and when and by what functions it is signaled. 00:49:26 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:49:40 _8david: I get a Class not yet defined: XPATH:XPATH-ERROR when trying to load xpath 00:50:41 *plage* must go to work to face a full day of internship presentations :( 00:50:47 -!- plage [~user@222.253.100.125] has left #lisp 00:51:30 plage: there is for example this comment in SBCL's condition.lisp for `find-condition-layout' 00:51:45 "FIXME: Does this do the right thing in case of multiple inheritance? A quick look at DEFINE-CONDITION didn't make 00:51:45 it obvious what ANSI intends to be done in the case of multiple inheritance, so it's not actually clear what the right thing is.." 00:52:32 _8david: hmm... perhaps it was stale FASLs. 00:52:39 *beslyrus* wipes quicklisp fasl 00:52:53 l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:29 plage: I've no clue if that is still relevant to SBCL or not, but what i'm asking is how can SICL hope to mediate these types of questions across multiple implementations. 00:53:47 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.87.48] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:53:57 gonzojive [~red@171.66.87.48] has joined #lisp 00:55:07 vokoda``` [~user@host86-147-31-127.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:55:42 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:56:12 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:57:27 -!- vokoda`` [~user@host86-150-110-32.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:38 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 01:02:22 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-35-188-205.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:02:36 slyrus: do you have a minute? 01:02:45 sure, what's up? 01:03:04 slyrus: I am looking at smiles3.lisp and also checked out the parser-combination-tests to see how the code works. 01:03:13 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 01:03:14 Is there any more documentation around? 01:03:58 I don't think so 01:05:25 slyrus: would you remember where the entry point to the parser in smiles3.lisp? 01:05:32 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:05:55 slyrus: just read your profile "Cyrus Harmon" on cliki.net, but it seems that the links in that profile are not working. 01:06:23 (parse-smiles-string) 01:06:38 look at the (parse-string* ...) call 01:06:39 slyrus: I could not find anything on fset. Do you know where I can find more details on it. 01:06:45 slyrus: ok, thanks. 01:07:11 yeah, fset actually has some documentation. google it, that's how I found it. it's also installable via quicklisp, so look there. 01:07:56 slyrus: ok, cool. thanks. I was under the mis-ipmression that it is part of the parser-combinator library. 01:08:32 slyrus: do you know Ramarren? 01:08:52 nope, ramarren used it when he rewrote my first cl-parser-combinators attempt at smiles parsing (in smiles2.lisp, for the moment, but it will go away) 01:09:22 no, I have not met him, but he pointed me to cl-parser-combinators when he saw on the #lisp logs that I was interested in SMUG 01:09:41 I've also used fnparse (in clojure land) but parser-combinators is really nice, so far... 01:10:23 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.226.235] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:10:38 slyrus: ok, thanks. hopefully, he will find me. I can help him write up a small entry-level tutorial. 01:10:50 -!- vokoda``` [~user@host86-147-31-127.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:11:42 slyrus: do you have his irc name? or did he just email you? 01:12:11 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-5-226.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:12:38 guinness` [~user@216.252.75.210] has joined #lisp 01:14:04 github email 01:14:12 slyrus: ok, thanks. 01:14:15 did you get past go at least? 01:14:43 slyrus: what is go? 01:15:17 pnq [~nick@AC81628C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:15:25 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has quit [Quit: superflit] 01:15:49 I mean were you able to get simple parsing tasks accomplished? 01:16:03 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:16:17 yes, i was trying the tests from the slime prompt and seem to get the hang of some of the functions. 01:16:27 yes, at a unit level. 01:17:20 slyrus: now, i need to figure out how the whole thing fits together. I did not understand what is meant by "context". i understand that it stores context, but "how" and if I need to care about it, are some of things that I need to look at. 01:17:38 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:09 no, unlike fnparse, you shouldn't need to know about the context 01:18:25 slyrus: some of the things i have been trying are like this: (tree-of (current-result (parse-string (int?) "5"))) 01:19:06 spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.9] has joined #lisp 01:19:25 and the many1 and i basically checked out almost all the tests defined in the test-parsers.lisp 01:19:33 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:20:06 test-basic.lisp seems to have good stuff. will check that out next. 01:20:46 slyrus: it appears to be the best way to gain understanding of how the library fits together. 01:20:52 slyrus: Would you agree? 01:22:26 -!- beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:23:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@72-022.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:24:18 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@201.47.58.47.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 01:25:49 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.87.48] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 01:27:09 sorry, my beirc instance finally gave up the ghost :( 01:27:24 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-30-98.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:28:04 -!- NNshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:28:14 yeah, I guess so. the breakthrough for me was understanding how chainl1? works 01:28:48 ok, thanks. will focus on chainl1 01:30:03 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:49 gonzojive [~red@171.66.87.48] has joined #lisp 01:32:18 astoon [~astoon@109.188.225.184] has joined #lisp 01:38:13 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:19 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.127.144] has joined #lisp 01:38:28 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:33 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:08 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:45:50 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:47:15 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:00 -!- mega1 [~quassel@2001:470:1f05:548:215:58ff:fe7d:773b] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:54:27 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 01:55:33 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:57:28 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-8-249.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:57:29 Atomsk [~ace4016@adsl-32-8-249.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:39 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.72.191.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 02:06:45 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.72.191.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 02:07:40 -!- guinness` [~user@216.252.75.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:33 gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:07 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203074432]] 02:13:35 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:13:53 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:14:24 -!- thmzlt [~thomaz@24-217-48-63.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:17:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:11 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.87.48] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 02:19:29 -!- gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:30:04 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:35 jan247_ [~jan247@58.71.51.194] has joined #lisp 02:30:35 -!- jan247_ [~jan247@58.71.51.194] has quit [Changing host] 02:30:35 jan247_ [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 02:30:44 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:30:45 -!- jan247_ is now known as jan247 02:34:17 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night! (...day! afternoon!)] 02:35:05 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:35:05 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 02:35:05 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:38:50 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-57-204.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:40:00 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:26 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:40:57 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.225.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:41:04 jan247 [~jan247@58.71.51.194] has joined #lisp 02:41:04 -!- jan247 [~jan247@58.71.51.194] has quit [Changing host] 02:41:04 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 02:45:34 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:46:34 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.127.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:47:59 mosva [~mosva@unaffiliated/mosva] has joined #lisp 02:48:31 jan247_ [~jan247@112.198.79.179] has joined #lisp 02:48:35 -!- jan247_ [~jan247@112.198.79.179] has quit [Changing host] 02:48:36 jan247_ [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 02:48:50 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:48:50 -!- jan247_ is now known as jan247 02:49:15 slyrus: i am not able to understand bind or mdo: i can understand choice and how it works. can you please let me know how you would modify this to use bind? (tree-of (current-result (parse-string (bind (word?) (word?)) "aaaa aaabc"))) 02:51:29 slyrus: i mean the usage (syntactical) of bind and mdo in lisp context. I do understand how they should theoretically work. 02:51:50 slyrus: do you have something simple to illustrate their usage? 02:52:12 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:17 jan247 [~jan247@58.71.51.194] has joined #lisp 02:52:17 -!- jan247 [~jan247@58.71.51.194] has quit [Changing host] 02:52:17 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 02:56:02 joe6: try this: (parse-string* (seq-list? (word?) (whitespace?) (word?)) "this works") 02:57:05 -!- tmh [6c491edf@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 02:58:00 astoon [~astoon@109.188.225.184] has joined #lisp 03:00:00 slyrus: isn't parse-string* the greedy version which consumes output even if it fails. 03:01:46 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:01:46 slyrus: the above line does not seem to be working. 03:02:37 are you using the latest parser-combinator from github? 03:02:59 slyrus: it worked. I was in the parser-combinators-tests package. 03:03:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:03:07 ah, ok 03:03:42 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:21 and, fwiw, I have no idea how to use bind 03:04:26 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:58 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05:48 slyrus: ok, will try to use seq-list?. How about mdo, do you have any simple usage of it? 03:06:35 (type-of (tree-of (current-result (parse-string (seq-list? (word?) (whitespace?) (word?)) "this works")))) 03:06:38 = cons 03:06:50 i usually use named-seq?/* instead of mdo 03:07:03 so, basically, the result is a list of all the elements parsed, correct? 03:07:23 slyrus: will check on named-seq?=* 03:07:34 s,=,/, 03:07:57 tree-of gives you a tree, not (necessarily) a list 03:08:02 which is a cons, of course 03:09:09 I think that's right, hmm... maybe it's just a list. 03:09:42 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:44 yes, it appears to be a list. 03:10:02 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:11:22 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:14:21 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: I'll see you on the dark side of the moon] 03:14:47 (tree-of (current-result (parse-string (named-seq? (<- a #\a) #\b (<- c #\c) (list a 'b c)) "abc"))) 03:15:12 slyrus: in the above, is a being assigned the match of charactera, c assigned the match of character c 03:15:16 is that correct? 03:15:42 i tried to replace the #\a with (word?) and the parser fails. Does that make sense? 03:18:53 makes sense to me. what did you expect to happen? 03:19:16 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:19:34 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:33 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:50 i was expecting a to be bound to the word matched 03:21:06 when the string was "abc ab" 03:21:38 slyrus: like this: (tree-of (current-result (parse-string (named-seq? (<- a (word?)) #\b (<- c #\c) (list a 'b c)) "abc bc"))) 03:22:10 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:23 (whitespace?) betweeh (word?)) and #\b 03:22:25 between 03:22:28 and it works 03:22:42 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 03:22:50 slyrus: oh, sorry, silly mistake. Thanks. 03:24:41 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:25:45 slyrus: i think I get the hang of it now. Thanks for your help. I think the error messages could be more informative/meaningful. Do you agree? 03:26:50 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:28:11 yes, and the examples could be better 03:29:21 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: I'll see you on the dark side of the moon] 03:30:32 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 03:32:39 -!- apox_ is now known as apox 03:34:00 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:11 -!- lusory [~bart@bb121-6-70-8.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:34:37 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 03:36:00 slyrus: i emailed ramarren about the examples and error messages. Hopefully, he checks that email account. 03:36:01 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.72.191.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 03:36:01 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.72.191.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 03:38:51 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:17 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-178-68.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:41:57 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:45:31 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:46:12 Adlai_ [~leif@ool-18bac7df.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:52 csamuelson [~user@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:26 iwillig [~iwillig@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:22 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-178-68.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:00:57 gumpa_ [~max@p5DE8CC73.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:24 -!- az [~az@p4FE4F89F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:02:35 tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.55.118] has joined #lisp 04:03:11 does any of you know how to create a string object and call its methods on abcl? 04:03:41 -!- davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:04:22 -!- gumpa [~max@p5DE8F36B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:04:24 seangrove [~user@c-98-248-33-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:15 -!- jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #lisp 04:05:20 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:05:59 lemoinem [~swoog@108-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:38 -!- green` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:12:19 az [~az@p4FE4E937.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:53 seangrov` [~user@c-98-248-33-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:33 -!- 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[~zwy_work@123.117.40.66] has left #lisp 07:15:54 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:17:03 Tweekly [~rixx69@60-234-166-237.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 07:17:11 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:17:36 (write 'Hello) 07:17:38 that was lame 07:17:44 but seriously, Hi 07:18:31 any one there? 07:18:44 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:19:38 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:21:24 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:21:33 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-176-182.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:22:33 gemelen: hm.. 07:22:53 ... 07:22:55 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:23:35 rvncerr: ? 07:23:39 gemelen: I think, I know you. 07:24:23 gemelen: Remove first three letters from my nick. 07:24:33 yep 07:24:46 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-127.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:25:04 I remember you too 07:26:34 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-127.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 07:27:03 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-178-68.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:27:26 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:32 Socro [~egor@84.22.151.134] has joined #lisp 07:30:45 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.72.191.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 07:31:03 SidH_ [c0a314e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.163.20.231] has joined #lisp 07:31:04 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:31:04 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-127.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:31:21 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:31:37 Socro: hi. 07:32:39 rvncerr, hi 07:34:22 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:34:40 good morning 07:35:52 gemelen: Do you really use lisp? 07:36:44 I want to write a small lisp interpreter in python (dont shun me), any one have some good material I could read? 07:37:21 i am trying to understand the lisp reader. This is what I gained from PCL. When the evaluated form is a list, there are 3 forms: function call forms, macro forms and special forms. In a function call form, the arguments are evaluated first. The arguments could be: variable or self-evaluating object (number or string) or list form. 07:39:10 so, if there is a function that is sent as an argument to the function, it should be prefixed with #' to get to the corresponding function object. 07:39:15 Tweekly: search for "the roots of Lisp" by paul graham 07:39:30 rvncerr: no, there is no need lisp programming in my practice 07:39:55 joe6: kind of; what is it that you don't understand? 07:40:09 will do mishoo 07:40:19 mishoo: the prefixed with #' is correct? 07:40:41 (lamer-mode> i have connected emacs + SLIME + sbcl. but i don't know how to check if it is truly connected and work together. please advise? 07:40:44 joe6: if you want to pass a function to another function, then yes 07:40:52 mishoo: cool, thanks. 07:41:00 joe6: this is needed because CL has multiple namespaces -- the same symbol can name a function and a variable 07:41:13 the '#' is syntax sugar for (funcall afair. 07:41:25 when it's evaluated, a symbol normally evaluates to its variable value -- if it's bound to some variable, otherwise you get a "symbol is unbound" error 07:42:15 Socro: if (+ 1 1) shows 2, you're in the game ;) 07:42:45 mishoo, but i am not sure if 2 is goes from SBCL, or from elisp ;) 07:42:52 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 07:43:08 joe6: so: (let ((+ 5)) (format t "~A" +)) -- this will output 5 ;-) 07:43:20 we defined a variable and reference it with the symbol + 07:43:30 but the symbol + also has a global function definition 07:43:53 (let ((+ 5)) (format t "~A" #'+)) -- this outputs something different -- it gets the function instead 07:44:37 Socro: try (question "are you sbcl?") 07:44:54 yes: i am on sbcl 07:45:11 though, i am not Socro 07:45:16 :) 07:46:24 mishoo: thanks a lot, that was a good explanation. 07:47:32 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-whvvljnpgohxzggo] has joined #lisp 07:47:37 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl11-45-212.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 07:49:24 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 07:52:11 hi, is it possible to specify optimization settings globally? 07:52:12 i mean i don't want to write (declare *optimize-settings*) into all of my functions 07:52:26 -!- Tweekly [~rixx69@60-234-166-237.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:53:17 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 07:54:00 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:54:28 Socro: should it not be syntactic sugar for? (function foo) == #'foo 07:54:58 joe6, i said 'afair'. that probably means that i don't remember SO far ;) 07:55:53 joe6: yes, that's it 07:55:53 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:57:39 fusss [~fusss@58.171.93.108] has joined #lisp 07:58:24 hi, I see the "RESTAS" web framework in here http://www.cliki.net/Current%20recommended%20libraries 07:58:46 has this been as tested as others? 07:58:53 splittist [~John@98.89.202.62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:58:56 morning 07:59:05 hey splittist 07:59:57 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 08:00:09 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:05:35 Is there some easy way to get stable paths to the asd files from quicklisp? I'd like to rebuild my sbcl image, and by using some stable paths I'd hope that on sbcl upgrade that would be re-done automatically. 08:06:08 -!- pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:06:15 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:06:44 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-176-182.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:07:29 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-179-70.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:08 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3303.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.2] 08:11:12 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:11:39 flip214: IIRC, sbcl rebuilt itself cleanly even with asdf-install 08:11:57 Joreji [~thomas@92-035.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:12:15 -!- sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:31 the problem is that the .asd files in quicklisp are only kept in directories that have a version in them - like "alexandria-20101107-git" 08:12:38 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:12:52 so as soon as I do a quicklisp upgrade all the symlinks to the asd files are wrong. 08:13:07 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:13 flip214: hmmm, yeah, that sucks. report to @xach, he is quick 08:15:19 especially there is already a installed/ directory, with releases/ and systems/ below - but there are just the pathnames to the asd files. of course, I can rebuild my symlinks from that... 08:15:19 -!- splittist [~John@98.89.202.62.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:15:25 quotemstr [~quotemstr@173.224.210.52] has joined #lisp 08:15:31 Was it a mistake to have #| and |# nest? 08:16:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.43.10] has joined #lisp 08:17:45 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:20:33 splittist [~John@98.89.202.62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:21:39 aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:21:55 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.33.215] has joined #lisp 08:24:25 -!- fusss [~fusss@58.171.93.108] has left #lisp 08:27:00 zickzackv [~zickzackv@port-92-198-30-142.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:01 Am I taking this ASDF2 manual entry too literally: "The default location for a user to install Common Lisp software is under ~/.local/share/common-lisp/source/. If you install software there, you don't need further configuration."? 08:29:26 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@173.224.210.52] has left #lisp 08:30:09 So I install something in /foo/bar.asd - and an asdf:load-system :bar isn't finding it. What am I misunderstanding? 08:32:37 I'd expect a symlink in ~/.local/share/common-lisp/systems/ pointing to the asd file - but maybe that's just me 08:32:40 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 08:33:01 dmytrish [~dmytrish@91.145.209.205] has joined #lisp 08:34:31 no, asdf2 shouldn't need that 08:35:17 adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-179-209-113.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:22 but I've never tried putting stuff under ~/.local/share/common-lisp/source, what's the point of putting interesting things in invisible directories 08:36:18 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:36:26 cmm: well, quite. But it seemed the easiest (only easy) thing to do (on Windows) 08:36:29 splittist: if the ~/.local/share/common-lisp/source directory didn't exist when you loaded asdf, you may have to tell asdf to search its registries again. I think 08:36:50 splittist: the easiest way to do that is to restart the lisp :) 08:36:58 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@88.154.83.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:37:39 cmm: yeah. But I started the lisp after creating the dirs. Oh well, next time I start it I'll look some more. 08:37:40 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-78-211.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:38:09 yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.185] has joined #lisp 08:38:50 -!- l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:39:16 heh 08:39:30 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:39:46 well, that being windows, perhaps your idea of where ~ points differs from asdf's 08:40:06 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:40:50 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-67-92.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:42:01 leifw [~leif@ool-18bac7df.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:52 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:45:04 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 08:45:20 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-250-49.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:15 -!- leifw [~leif@ool-18bac7df.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:53:15 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 08:54:53 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:54:58 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:52 sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 08:59:04 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 09:03:26 is let a special form operator? in (let ((x 2))) , why does ((x 2)) need 2 sets of parens? 09:03:38 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007100.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 09:05:15 joe6: it needs two sets of parens because you're binding x to 2. 09:05:38 joe6: you could write (let (x y) ...) and have both x and y be bound to nil initially 09:05:52 (by that example, that is) 09:06:19 H4ns`: ok, thanks. 09:06:28 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 09:06:30 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 09:11:25 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007100.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:17:06 astoon [~astoon@109.188.240.172] has joined #lisp 09:17:12 joe6: fwiw, I rarely use the (let (x y z)) case. I'd prefer it not to require so many parens but oh well, I got used to it. :) 09:17:57 joe6: but you can always write a macro to simplify it if you don't like it ;) 09:18:47 mishoo: generally, it is not good advice to tell people that they should write syntax-"optimizing" macros 09:18:53 -!- mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-20-213.uqwimax.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:22 mishoo: it will make code harder to read for the next person. i have often found that such "optimizations" are removing useful properties from the original syntax, too. 09:20:50 H4ns: true, but I think it's one of the most attractive features of lisp, at least when you first come to it 09:21:44 if I didn't *know* that I can change syntax, I wouldn't use lisp now. then in time I've learned my lessons about *when*, *what* and *how* to change :) 09:22:48 joe6: http://mihai.bazon.net/blog/hashes-and-raw-strings-in-common-lisp - that's an old story I wrote about adding syntactic sugar for hashes :) 09:23:13 but don't do that, it will bite :) it was nice to know it's possible though, and now I know how to do it without shooting my foot 09:23:29 mishoo: right - i found this possibility attractive, too. still, i think it is good advice to tell people that they should not change a syntax just because they don't like it. 09:23:56 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 09:25:29 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl11-45-212.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 09:26:42 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-250-49.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:43 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:29:22 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 09:33:27 Good afternoon everyone! 09:33:38 mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-20-213.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 09:35:27 Hello beach! 09:36:00 -!- dmytrish [~dmytrish@91.145.209.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:36:31 beach: in CLIM3, what are you calling the 'connection' between the generic system and a particular backend: port? graft? (I know it operates at various levels...) 09:37:35 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.185] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:38:16 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@213.246.116.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:38:38 benny [~benny@i577A3303.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:39:03 and are there any draft versions of the CLIM3 available? 09:39:22 claint [~user@85.102.158.53] has joined #lisp 09:39:35 -!- mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-20-213.uqwimax.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:56 zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 09:42:45 ZabaQ [~john.conn@213.246.116.21] has joined #lisp 09:43:16 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 09:43:21 blinda [~blinda@77.43.6.114] has joined #lisp 09:43:46 splittist: I can't remember :) 09:44:15 splittist: As I recall, I kept the port. 09:45:09 beach: OK (: 09:45:34 mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-20-213.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 09:45:58 splittist: But a port is also a zone (the thing that replaces a sheet, an output record, and a design). 09:46:05 splittist: So there is no graft. 09:46:45 That sounds very sci-fi 09:47:10 It does? 09:47:30 jdz: That would be *very* draft. I don't think you should bother yet. 09:48:00 beach: Are you keeping presentations? :) 09:48:02 Out of context, that is. MOBIUS: But a port is also a zone. NEO: So there is no graft. 09:49:00 moore33: Definitely! 09:50:00 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 09:51:11 Heh. 09:51:18 moore33: Essentially, I am merging those concepts, which means that one can get rid of one of the ways of making tables, etc. Also, I specify the behavior of redraws wrt the event loop, and essentially make output recording mandatory, so drawing a line turns into the creation of an elementary zone that draws a line. 09:51:35 *moore33* nods 09:52:23 imv [~imv@94.231.123.31] has joined #lisp 09:52:48 -!- imv is now known as ymv 09:53:50 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 09:54:31 jdz: OK, since moore33 is here: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/CLIM-3.git 09:54:52 cool beanz 09:55:28 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:56:15 -!- blinda [~blinda@77.43.6.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:22 Many things are still wrong, and even more unspecified. I am hoping to keep large parts of the CLIM II spec such as perhaps commands and application frames. Who knows. 09:59:39 Hi, I'm not very knowledgeable about the assembly process but why can't immediate values (example 12) be loaded into the register (e.g. EAX) : http://codepad.org/fiE2RR4o (pastebin was painful today) 09:59:47 hello beach 10:00:01 francogrex: They can be in many situations. 10:00:05 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75467f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:42 ok. But here it is a choice of the compiler... so you mean it can be done otherwise? 10:00:56 francogrex: There are no registers in CL. 10:01:51 Hey mvilleneuve 10:02:04 mvilleneuve: I am slowly getting to the LOOP code generation part. 10:02:13 beach: thanks! 10:04:45 moore33: Oh, and zones have relative coordinates! :) 10:04:58 beach: in its current state it's more like a dirty hack, but I'm curious about your opinion on how to implement those things correctly 10:05:03 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:05:13 Zhivago: ok I see. The generated asm code from sbcl is then hypothetical (or is it correctly representative)? 10:05:24 mvilleneuve: Yes, I understand. 10:05:30 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:05:45 I seem to remember there being many plotting libs built on top of vecto 10:06:00 any recommendations for something quick to setup and good for data exploration? 10:06:09 big bonus points for SLIME REPL integration 10:06:28 franco: sbcl produces vop codes that are translated into machine code. 10:06:45 franco: If you're not getting unpacked integers in that situation it's probably due to a lack of type information. 10:08:26 H4ns` [~user@p579F8CF0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:20 ok I will read more the vop src code(s). I'd like to "fix" the dissassembly code I posted (by giving as much type information as possible like you suggested) to get the unpacked integer 10:10:49 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:11:36 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-254-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 10:11:50 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9E765.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:12:21 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 10:15:45 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:54 jan247 [~jan247@58.71.51.194] has joined #lisp 10:16:54 -!- jan247 [~jan247@58.71.51.194] has quit [Changing host] 10:16:54 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 10:18:17 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 10:18:21 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:18:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@92-035.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:19:29 sm`wor [~chatzilla@78.40.4.40] has joined #lisp 10:20:34 blinda [~blinda@77.43.6.114] has joined #lisp 10:20:38 hi 10:21:02 I need help debugging programs with sbcl and slime, is there a good guide? 10:21:02 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21:02 Tx 10:22:58 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:51 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:24:20 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 10:24:28 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:26:21 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:27:02 blinda: seen the SLIME video? 10:27:22 it does give a number of good and not immediately obvious tips on the SLDB, the SLIME debugger 10:27:59 blinda: http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov this one 10:28:11 tx 10:28:11 -!- Socro [~egor@84.22.151.134] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 10:31:21 beach: oh, when did you start dabbling with CLIM3? I recall you still claiming basically to learn CLIM when you showed me the Vietnamese dictionary back in Höör, so I'm slightly surprised to see you respeccing it now :) 10:32:09 mathrick: it's always the case, it's always the newbies who are motivated to respec things. 10:32:44 pjb: yes, but I'd never suspect beach of being a newbie in CL matters 10:33:09 or newbie in knowing about the newbie zeal phenomenon 10:33:36 beach is not a CLIM newbie. 10:34:11 Krystof [~csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust1263.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:34:28 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:34:33 :-) 10:34:35 mathrick: I think it was more than a year ago. 10:35:05 beach: that you started CLIM3? Interesting 10:35:13 Yes. 10:35:35 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:36:10 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:40:32 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:40:41 moore33: I have an incremental redraw algorithm that optimizes redrawing so that one can have a large hierarchy of zones with little performance penalty. Everything outside the visible area won't be touched, and inside it, minor changes will result in minor redraws. 10:41:04 That's an improvement. 10:41:50 Yes, and it is synchronized with the event loop (as opposed to the command loop) so that the same mechanism can be used for drawing gadgets, text, etc. 10:43:10 Most of that was unspecified in CLIM II, so that it wasn't clear when updates to the hierarchy of output records became visible. 10:45:19 xan_ [~xan@6.134.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 10:46:21 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:46:50 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:47:41 Oh, and another result is that one can draw to an "ungrafted" hierarchy of zones, and it becomes visible, once the hierarchy is "grafted". 10:49:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:56:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 10:57:01 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-35-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 10:57:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:03:46 _ism [~frinnn@i59F61B81.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:04:05 malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has joined #lisp 11:05:38 dmytrish [~dmytrish@193.84.77.22] has joined #lisp 11:06:39 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:06:47 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.127.144] has joined #lisp 11:06:56 Joreji [~thomas@92-035.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:07:00 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:07:16 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:20 -!- ttb [~frinnn@i59F62D5E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:07:32 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:07:43 how can I make a list of defclasses objects? 11:09:35 blinda: can you elaborate what you want to do a bit, please? 11:09:53 vokoda [~user@host86-147-31-127.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:10:14 if you mean the class objects referred to by symbols, I think you want find-class 11:10:14 H4ns: a list with objects like (make-instance 'my-class) 11:10:21 -!- vokoda [~user@host86-147-31-127.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:10:21 vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has joined #lisp 11:10:26 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #lisp 11:10:30 blinda: (list (make-instance 'my-class) (make-instance 'my-class)) 11:10:40 blinda: that'd create a list of two instances of my-class 11:10:41 H4ns: pk 11:10:43 H4ns: ok 11:11:09 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:13:32 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:30 #\Tabs are a horrible curse that shold never have seen the light of CRTs. 11:15:21 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.240.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:22:58 is there any 16 bit crc calculation library? :) 11:23:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@92-035.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:24:14 blinda: try "common lisp" crc16 11:24:34 H4ns: tx 11:26:39 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C4CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:14 -!- mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-20-213.uqwimax.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28:24 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.107] has joined #lisp 11:30:05 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:31:27 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:33:35 blinda: and/or http://www.cliki.net/admin/search?words=crc 11:33:45 cliki.net is something you should get used to perusing 11:33:59 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:36:41 is there a way to treat symbol as a form? e.g. ; ls -> (run-shell-command "ls") 11:37:00 define-symbol-macro 11:38:42 yes, i've googled it, but probaly I need some time to figure out how arguments may be processed 11:39:14 *dmytrish* goes on googling 11:39:25 maybe you're looking for something like http://rpw3.org/hacks/lisp/opfr.lisp 11:41:56 :) , it's one of my ideas I wanted to implement, thanks 11:42:21 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 11:42:37 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 11:43:16 there's also stuff like sb-aclrepl 11:44:45 symbols don't get arguments ... 11:44:56 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:45:02 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:45:17 Work out if you want ls -> ... or (ls ...) -> ... 11:46:23 yes, it is the issue 11:47:03 it seems that OPFR code provides its own REPL 11:48:16 is there lexical possibility to change reader? 11:50:47 -!- blinda [~blinda@77.43.6.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:51:13 Sure ... see above. 11:54:40 clhs 2.1.1 11:54:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_aa.htm 11:55:01 dmytrish: checkout readtables using that link...its the heart of how you modify the reader in Lisp 11:55:29 dmytrish: but proceed with caution :) 11:56:20 From what he's said above, it's unlikely that he wants to change the readtable. 11:57:21 I just want to pass arguments to run-shell-command using the most lightweight syntax 11:57:45 well, he did say "reader"--and depending on how far he goes... :) 11:58:58 dmytrish: but do you want to use this syntax in the repl or in your code? 11:59:19 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.127.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:59:48 syntax exercises only :) 12:00:04 for REPL 12:03:23 blargh, I can't for the life of me google anything for the graphical-output-in-SLIME hacks I know I've seen before 12:03:31 anyone have any pointers to that? 12:06:12 so combination of two symbols on replline is absolutely meaningless? 12:06:44 dmytrish: depends on what R in your REPL does 12:07:18 yes, that's why I've asked about reader 12:07:41 well, now I know it's not that trivial 12:07:53 dmytrish: in the standard reader, it'll be read as just two independent symbols input one after another, and evaluated as such 12:07:58 You haven't explained what you want to do meaningfully. 12:08:16 Zhivago: [13:57:21] I just want to pass arguments to run-shell-command using the most lightweight syntax 12:09:33 Meaningless drivel. 12:09:34 and 'most lightweight' I understand as , parentheses are not fun 12:09:48 Zhivago: yes, it is just exercises 12:10:06 Ok, so how do you delimit the end of the command? 12:10:21 as the end of repl line 12:10:32 Why do you keep on talking about the repl? 12:10:35 mathrick: pics-in-slime http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.slime.devel/7341/match=images, ? 12:10:43 Write a program that reads lines, parses them and calls run-shell-command. 12:11:19 chrnybo: yeah, found the same thing, looking at that right now 12:11:44 Yes, I needed to make out that, now I get it 12:11:48 Zhivago: if you now loop that programme, it'll be a REPL 12:12:01 But not _the repl_. 12:12:05 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.127.144] has joined #lisp 12:12:41 there's no _the_ REPL anyway, given that almost no-one uses the stock REPL of their CL implementation with absolutely no modifications 12:12:46 blinda [~blinda@77.43.6.114] has joined #lisp 12:12:54 and the standard doesn't specify "the" REPL either 12:12:58 hi 12:13:25 there's no articles in my native language, I'm sorry 12:13:49 mathrick: So, you don't understand 'the repl' to mean anything in the context of CL? 12:14:21 Zhivago: I do, but I still think you're nitpicking needlessly and the wrong things 12:14:51 there are times when people are unwilling to learn, and there are times when they clearly don't _know_ what they want to say and are aware of that 12:14:59 IMHO it's clear it's the latter here 12:15:28 That's why I had him clarify it. 12:15:32 dmytrish: nor in mine, but the distinction between "a" and "the" is still useful when you can make it 12:16:41 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-88-84.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:17:29 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:18:18 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:18:57 I have not used "the repl" in the conversation, but I meant "CL REPL" 12:19:35 -!- xan_ [~xan@6.134.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:34 dmytrish: i think that you have not expressed clearly what you're trying to do. you want your cl repl, in addition to what it does, be able to execute shell commands, right? there is no portable way to do that. look at the links provided to you to see what you _can_ do and how. 12:20:46 dmytrish: basically, you'll have to write your own repl. 12:20:55 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@75-150-231-161-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:21:10 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:21:28 H4ns: this is the answer I wanted, thanks 12:22:52 Draggor [~Draggor@75-150-231-161-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:15 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xszsjusbzdljapbu] has joined #lisp 12:26:15 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xszsjusbzdljapbu] has quit [Changing host] 12:26:15 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 12:27:46 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:39:51 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.127.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:39:58 GeneralMaximus [~general@122.161.212.239] has joined #lisp 12:42:08 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:44:01 adarnimrod_ [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-209-98.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:39 KLBJ [~jia50617t@110.110.94.27] has joined #lisp 12:45:51 ttb [~frinnn@i59F60280.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:46:15 -!- adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-179-209-113.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:13 -!- KLBJ [~jia50617t@110.110.94.27] has left #lisp 12:49:03 -!- _ism [~frinnn@i59F61B81.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:50:12 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:51:38 dmytrish: have a look at clash 12:52:15 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:39 http://clisp.sourceforge.net/clash.html 12:52:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:52:42 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 12:58:03 uhh, is there a standard way to make a non-string, non-file output stream? 12:58:09 basically an in-memory stream 12:58:20 mathrick, with-output-to-string 12:58:27 that's not non-string 12:58:34 well, but memory ;-) 12:58:45 and it errors out if I specify a non-character ELEMENT-TYPE 12:58:48 no standard way 12:58:53 baaaah 12:59:04 stassats: okay, and what about an easy way to do so on SBCL? 12:59:12 although gray-streams are standartish 12:59:17 I just want a place to dump bytes to and get them back afterwards 12:59:22 mathrick: flexi-streams? 12:59:27 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.211.42] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 12:59:28 right 12:59:34 extensible arrays? 12:59:42 lists?! 13:01:11 stassats: they're not streams as far as the type system and the standard is concerned 13:01:17 but flexi-streams is what I need 13:02:12 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:55 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:22 mathrick: with gray streams they can be (lists, that is, streams, as far as the etc. etc.) Well, lightly wrapped lists (: 13:03:38 I know, but flexi-streams is even less wrapping :) 13:04:05 true. Ain't Quicklisp grand! 13:04:34 mathrick: but they are places "to dump bytes to and get them back" 13:05:06 stassats: "... after you wrap them in some code" 13:05:46 what do you mean? 13:07:01 changing write-byte to vector-push-extend? 13:07:12 stassats: I can't use arrays as streams without first wrapping them in some code, such as gray streams 13:07:24 stassats: nono, I have an existing API which wants a stream (sensibly) 13:07:32 See string-input-stream and string-output-stream. 13:07:45 mathrick: you should've told that 13:08:00 Also look at concatenation-streams, iirc. 13:08:18 But, why do you want this? 13:09:05 because I want to send things to my REPL without first writing them out to a file 13:09:11 things being images 13:10:20 Why does your repl only have one interface? 13:11:12 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:32 Zhivago: it doesn't, but ADW-charting does. It has SAVE-FILE and SAVE-STREAM functions 13:11:43 doing what the names suggest 13:11:58 Why does your repl care? 13:13:48 what? 13:13:54 I want to send bytes to REPL 13:14:06 to do that, I need to grab image bytes generated by ADW-charting 13:14:27 to do that without writing them out to a file, I need to supply an output stream to ADW-charting's SAVE-STREAM 13:14:32 Why do you want to send those bytes to the repl? 13:14:43 This is not making much sense. 13:14:43 to display them, as I said? 13:14:57 Why not just print them? 13:15:23 because then it's not an image 13:15:29 I want image as in pixels 13:15:35 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:42 not to see the bytes in the image displayed as a string 13:16:31 You are making less and less sense. What does this have to do with the repl? 13:18:22 Zhivago: http://common-lisp.net/~crhodes/swankr/. If you still don't get it, I'm sorry, but that's too bad 13:18:49 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 13:20:05 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 13:20:13 Yes. It's too bad you can't explain yourself coherently. 13:20:30 Zhivago: it must be you. i have no trouble understanding. 13:21:20 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-35-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:23:32 might be the metonymy of referring to the whole swank/slime/emacs in-buffer images framework as "the REPL". 13:25:11 hmm, trying to run clc-update-customized-images gives me "Error running init-common-lisp-controller-v4: The function QL-SETUP:QMERGE is undefined.". Any ideas? 13:25:35 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:25:39 don't use clc? 13:25:49 (really, don't) 13:26:35 http://paste.lisp.org/display/119009 <-- okay, any idea why this doesn't work 13:26:46 cmm, should I build sbcl images manually? 13:26:55 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:56 or is there some other script? 13:27:00 or maybe "why this returns an empty sequence, which is not what I expect it to do after I've written to the stream" 13:27:03 well, you can download a binary release 13:28:03 delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:28:13 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:28:55 mega1 [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:10 oh wait, I'm stupid 13:31:07 minion: tell flip214 about build-app? 13:31:08 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``build-app''. 13:31:13 ;-) 13:31:16 minion: buildapp? 13:31:16 buildapp: Buildapp is an application for SBCL that configures and saves an executable Common Lisp image. http://www.cliki.net/buildapp 13:31:44 thanks, found it already 13:32:26 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-149-4.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:35:57 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@108-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:25 lemoinem [~swoog@91-84-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:41 vilsonvieira [~vilson@186.212.61.33] has joined #lisp 13:38:58 sellout [~greg@64.134.66.183] has joined #lisp 13:40:13 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:43:00 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 13:43:58 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:44:54 LiamH [~healy@129-2-134-55.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:44:57 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:04 pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:45:43 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@213.246.116.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:48:55 pankajm_ [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:48:55 -!- pankajm_ [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Client Quit] 13:49:06 pankajm_ [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 -!- pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:54:41 ZabaQ [~john.conn@213.246.116.21] has joined #lisp 13:56:26 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:57:57 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:59:08 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff679e.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 13:59:30 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 14:00:58 jan247 [~jan247@180.191.98.61] has joined #lisp 14:00:58 -!- jan247 [~jan247@180.191.98.61] has quit [Changing host] 14:00:58 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 14:04:51 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:22 _ism [~frinnn@i59F62554.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:07:18 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 14:09:59 -!- ttb [~frinnn@i59F60280.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:14:03 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 14:14:29 Hmm, trying to use iterate I get an conflict for the symbol "iterate" ... it's used by me for specifying the package, and should be exported by iterate. How should I specify the package in (use)? 14:15:35 flip214: keywords are common. you can also use strings or uninterned symbols. (if i understand you right) 14:16:11 -!- SidH_ [c0a314e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.163.20.231] has quit [] 14:16:49 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.72.191.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: asdf] 14:17:23 RaceCondition [~erik@82.131.72.191.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 14:17:24 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:17:25 hmmm 14:17:46 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@82.131.72.191.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 14:17:59 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.72.191.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 14:18:19 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.72.191.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 14:18:37 RaceCondition [~erik@82.131.72.191.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 14:19:06 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-179-70.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:20:24 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:20:30 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:21:36 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:22:00 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff679e.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:22:11 reb` [~user@nat/google/x-yizausiytsjolkoa] has joined #lisp 14:22:23 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-jdzyxhxkcrmghuyj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:28 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75467f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:52 -!- csamuelson [~user@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:26:46 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff679e.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 14:27:19 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-134-55.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:27:42 mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-20-213.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 14:32:51 Hmm, anyone with clozurecl on windows? Are you able to quickload babel? 14:34:08 Xach: yes. although it took suspiciously little time. 14:34:53 H4ns: how about "sqlite"? 14:35:11 hmm, never mind. 14:35:27 Xach: does not find the shared libs. 14:35:31 right. 14:35:51 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-35-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 14:37:38 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3303.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:07 csamuelson [~user@173-14-110-121-nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:03 -!- pankajm_ [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:08 benny [~benny@i577A2B30.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:40:27 pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:43:31 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:39 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 14:45:09 hi 14:45:18 is it possible to copy a portion of an array? 14:45:32 blinda: yes, with subseq. 14:45:48 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:50 Xach: good, I'm going to catch subseq!! 14:45:54 Xach: tx 14:46:23 blinda: What does "tx" mean? 14:46:45 thanks 14:47:04 blinda: Oh. I would feel so much better if you wrote "thanks"! 14:47:41 fe[nl]ix: Thanks for your help with libtool and libraries. Not exactly sure what the problem was, but it appears that libtool is doing the right thing with my shard libs on osx. Yay! 14:49:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:49:54 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:58 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:04 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:15 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Quit] 14:51:27 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:52:01 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:52:24 -!- Aisling [ash@blk-222-193-52.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:52:45 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:54:24 Aisling [ash@blk-222-193-52.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 14:54:32 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:56 Xach: ok, I've to change my xchat config 14:58:31 thanks 14:58:40 ywlkcm! 14:59:19 blinda: how's your project coming along? did you get rid of all that (= i 42) stuff yet? 15:00:21 Xach: yes 15:00:23 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:38 Xach: I'm Posterdati at work 15:01:30 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/119012 15:01:38 Xach: I'm developing it right now 15:01:40 -!- chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has left #lisp 15:02:18 blinda: When you wrote "yes", did you mean "no"? Because it is still there. 15:03:01 what? 15:03:44 blinda: Your use of a loop variable and comparing it to various integers is a wasteful method of program control. 15:03:58 Xach: why? 15:04:01 blinda: code review comment: i find (if (do-something) (error "blah")) to be very distasteful. 15:04:26 H4ns: does it work? 15:04:36 blinda: Because it must check every clause every time, unnecessarily. 15:04:37 blinda: i'd rather write (unless (error "blah")) (do-something). error handling should not clutter the code. 15:05:31 rtoym: excellent :) 15:05:58 Xach: and how can I change it? 15:06:00 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-242-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:00 i'd rather write (assert condition ...) 15:06:01 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:06:12 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@82.131.72.191.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 15:06:37 blinda: in the crc16 function, i'd provide an error message if buffer is not of the expected type rather than silently doing nothing. and your loop could use (loop for byte across buffer ...), that'd save you the aref. 15:06:49 ASau [~user@89-178-242-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:06:57 blinda: instead of (loop for i from ... (cond ((= i 0) (setf (aref thing i) ...)) just do (setf (aref thing 0) ...) 15:07:18 blinda: same with 1, 2, etc. and don't use boole! 15:07:46 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:07:59 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.155.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:08:28 blinda: use (logand ... #xFF) instead of (boole boole-and ... #xFF) 15:08:41 ok 15:08:46 what about unless? 15:08:48 or LDB 15:09:11 anything but boole! 15:09:15 tmh [6c491edf@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:09:21 RaceCondition [~erik@82.131.72.191.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 15:09:24 Greetings lispers. 15:09:30 blinda: look at the function close-serial-port 15:09:48 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.146.200] has joined #lisp 15:10:04 H4ns: ok 15:10:35 blinda: progn in then clause is bad. instead, use (when (<= 0 fd) (error "....")) 15:11:27 or (assert (plusp fd) nil "Message") 15:11:46 blinda: what stassats says 15:12:50 blinda: but: try to separate exceptional and normal control flow so that it is easy for the reader to skip over error handling code. 15:13:49 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:15:52 and instead of nesting logical OR (boole boole-ior (boole boole-ior sb-posix:O-RDWR sb-posix:O-NOCTTY) sb-posix:O-NONBLOCK) => (logior sb-posix:o-rdwr sb-posix:o-noctty sb-posix:o-nonblock) 15:17:10 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.146.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:17:43 thoolihan [~Tim@209.221.3.130] has joined #lisp 15:18:39 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.116] has joined #lisp 15:18:51 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.54.145] has joined #lisp 15:21:27 Is there a built-in (or elegant) way of setting something the first time through a LOOP, but not updating on subsequent iterations? 15:21:31 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/119012#1 15:21:50 INITIALLY keyword is what you want, I think. 15:21:50 splittist: with? 15:22:02 Oh, that too. 15:22:31 -!- adarnimrod_ [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-209-98.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:22:35 thanks, but I want a value calculated during the first iteration. 15:22:52 for y = x then y 15:23:14 blinda: for the type check, i'd use (check-type tty-name string), if at all. 15:25:14 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:25:25 -!- thoolihan [~Tim@209.221.3.130] has left #lisp 15:27:44 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:28:47 -!- mega1 [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:29:28 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:30:08 splittist: it might just be time to PROG it up (: 15:30:13 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@186.212.61.33] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 15:30:32 pkhuong: I'm getting close to that! 15:30:41 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:31:09 I'm thinking you'd be better off designing an entirely new iteration approach, some sort of LOOP replacement. :-P 15:31:15 *splittist* was glancing through a c.1987 AI in Lisp book. PROG everywhere. 15:32:56 prog lived up to its name 15:33:41 Xach, H4ns, stassats: http://paste.lisp.org/display/119012#2 15:34:55 blinda: you can use REPLACE to copy (parts of) one array to another. 15:35:19 Xach: subseq? 15:35:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.43.10] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:35:32 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:36:01 blinda: What is the question? 15:36:17 Xach: may I use subseq too? 15:36:21 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:44 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:50 using MOP, i'd write a custom class storage, which would store slots in the desired array layout 15:36:52 blinda: I think REPLACE is better suited to the task most of the time. 15:36:59 Xach: ok 15:37:57 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B3268AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:40 Xach: so it would be: (replace message-body (slot-value message 'data) :start1 3) 15:39:10 why do you need to convert it to an array, anyway? 15:39:12 Xach: not using the loop at all 15:39:18 can't you write directly to the stream? 15:39:26 stassats: how? 15:39:36 oh, i missed that you need to calculate CRC 15:39:37 stassats: and how calculate the crc on it? 15:39:52 blinda: i think you have the arguments swapped. 15:40:02 blinda: it's (replace target source ...) 15:40:16 isn't CRC suitable for streams? 15:40:36 Xach: (replace (slot-value message 'data) message-body :start1 0 :start2 3) 15:40:51 blinda: you can omit :start1 as 0 is the default. 15:40:58 Xach: ok 15:41:01 Xach: thanks 15:41:18 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:41:25 Xach: ehi no loop at all in message-to-array, neat!!! 15:41:39 -!- daniel [~daniel@p50829ABD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:42:05 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-scbwqjiqfkqmtigk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:42:33 i'd use (with-slots (data-length logical-channel command-code ...) message) 15:44:18 and i'd create a macrolet which would expand into (setf (aref message-body I) value) 15:46:54 Joreji [~thomas@92-035.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:49:11 sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 15:52:37 blinda: http://paste.lisp.org/display/119012#3 15:53:29 mephisto_ [~mephisto@CPE00163625fbf5-CM00407b85ff2a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:32 mega1 [~quassel@2001:470:1f05:548:215:58ff:fe7d:773b] has joined #lisp 15:53:40 stassats: i'd move the replace into the macrolet to make the order of bytes in the message match the source code. 15:54:02 needs more boole 15:54:13 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 15:55:44 morning 15:57:34 'More Cow-Boole!' 15:57:45 I need to get better about abstracting little things like that, I would have just typed it out. 15:59:08 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:02 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:15 joebo [cf3af714@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.58.247.20] has joined #lisp 16:01:35 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:02:42 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:47 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:06:16 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:09:51 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust1263.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11:13 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 16:12:38 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 16:13:34 l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:44 minion: chant 16:16:44 MORE COW 16:17:27 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-242-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:18:55 -!- claint [~user@85.102.158.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:15 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: aerique@xs4all.nl] 16:21:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-137.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:21:36 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@CPE00163625fbf5-CM00407b85ff2a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:22:30 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:00 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:24:26 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26:13 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:42 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:33:45 astoon [~astoon@109.188.199.131] has joined #lisp 16:34:05 xan_ [~xan@6.134.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 16:44:15 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:26 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:45:23 (apply #'and '(t t)) 16:45:26 "The function COMMON-LISP:AND is undefined." 16:45:34 why? 16:45:42 AND is not a function 16:45:42 pattern: Because AND is not a function. 16:45:47 oh :( 16:46:04 beach: Up late? 16:46:13 (lambda (a b) (and a b)) on the other hand, is. 16:46:18 -!- blinda [~blinda@77.43.6.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:19 *pattern* nods 16:46:21 thank you 16:46:23 pattern: you could use (every #'identity '(t t)) in that case. 16:46:24 tmh: Yeah, I should be off to bed. 16:47:50 (not (find nil '(t t))) 16:48:03 errr 16:48:13 s/find/member/ 16:48:14 beach: Since we discussed comments, I had dinner, slept, took a shower, fed the kids pancakes, and drank coffee. Have you been up this entire time? 16:49:00 tmh: Yes. 16:49:26 beach: Ugh, well then, get some sleep. 16:49:28 Xach: every interesting solution 16:49:42 heh.. i mean very 16:49:51 tcleval [bb3a5a93@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.58.90.147] has joined #lisp 16:49:59 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:50:03 I found every about a year ago and it has turned out to be pretty useful. 16:50:05 tmh: It's not *that* bad. Then it was almost 7, not it is almost midnight. 16:50:08 (notany #'null '(t t)) also works 16:51:13 thanks 16:51:26 *beach* goes to bed on the recommendation of tmh. 16:51:34 :-) 16:51:53 *stassats* writes Lisp from bed 16:53:26 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:53:42 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:54:10 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:31 *tcleval* thinks coding from bed is the only way to write good code 16:55:14 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:55:18 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:55:31 i usually produce good code when not at the computer at all 16:57:11 Xach: another vecto question, can i somehow draw a string not relative to the baseline, but relative to y-min or y-max? 16:58:32 stassats: you are forced to use math to do that. 16:58:36 or at least, can i get somehting like string-bounding-box, but with base-line? 16:59:02 string-bounding-box returns info you can use to get the baseline. 16:59:17 the box does not have its lower-left corner at the origin. 17:00:09 ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@213.246.116.21] has joined #lisp 17:00:18 ASau [~user@89-178-242-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 17:00:30 *Xach* has an illustration somewhere... 17:00:41 jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:01:14 dmv_ [~daniel@187.35.239.89] has joined #lisp 17:02:15 oh, y-min is negative 17:02:33 so, baseline would be at 0? 17:02:35 yes 17:02:43 great 17:03:03 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@213.246.116.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03:10 -!- l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:04:53 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:05:10 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:06:08 Xach: and x-min is greater than 0, what does that mean? 17:06:56 -!- zickzackv [~zickzackv@port-92-198-30-142.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:07:50 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:07:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@92-035.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:08:27 and even negative sometimes, so, what does "glyph origin" mean in typography? 17:09:22 stassats: it's an artistic thing. 17:09:59 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.66.183] has quit [Quit: sellout] 17:10:41 see http://paste.lisp.org/display/119022 and http://xach.com/tmp/foo.png for an illustration 17:10:42 *stassats* goes to write draw-string which will position relative the bounding-box, and not artistic things 17:11:12 who's j. murphy? 17:11:18 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-152-12.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 17:11:32 stassats does not have any blatant descenders 17:11:55 i had to add a few 17:12:14 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:12:30 ale` [~user@dhcp-892b3c1a.ucd.ie] has joined #lisp 17:12:44 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:55 thanks, that clears things up 17:12:57 hi, is there a way in emacs+slime to hide the documentation strings in lisp code? 17:13:11 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:13:28 hideshow mode? 17:14:39 I seem to have found another problem in SBCL's DESTRUCTURING-BIND: (destructuring-bind (&key &allow-other-keys test) '(:test this) test) tries to interpret test as a keyword argument, but CLHS 3.4.1 indicates that &allow-other-keys indicates the end of the &key section. 17:15:18 it does? 17:15:27 what would "test" mean? 17:15:27 clhs 3.4.1 17:15:27 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_da.htm 17:15:33 Hexstream: That example seems pathological. 17:15:35 Hexstream: that lambda list doesn't obey the grammar to begin with. 17:15:36 stassats: Nothing, it's an error. 17:15:40 You're already in nasal demon land. 17:15:48 Which is why I should get an error ;P 17:15:54 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.35.33.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:16:11 Hexstream: it's actually a "don't do that". 17:17:05 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.199.131] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:17:45 In this case I can't fathom that not signaling an error can possibly be better than signalling an error. 17:19:08 astoon [~astoon@109.188.199.131] has joined #lisp 17:19:28 and destructuring-bind doesn't have an ordinary lambda list, the right section would be 3.4.5 17:20:02 Hexstream: if it's a reasonable interpretation, being lax is arguably better. 17:20:10 Or at least useful. 17:20:11 stassats: Fine, well the conclusion is the same. 17:20:28 i wasn't implying the opposite 17:20:48 pkhuong: It's not a reasonable interpretation. And the fact that it could be wrongly understood as being a reasonable interpretation makes it even more important to signal an error. 17:21:42 Hexstream: why isn't it reasonable? I can see arguments both ways. 17:21:43 stassats: I wasn't implying that you were implying the opposite, mr Overly Literal Mind. 17:22:01 Hexstream: i wasn't too 17:22:09 full stop 17:22:13 pkhuong: The HyperSpec says: keyvars::= [&key {var | ({var | (keyword-name var)} [init-form [supplied-p-parameter]])}* [&allow-other-keys]] 17:22:42 Which indicates that &allow-other-keys is at the end of the &key section. 17:22:47 Hexstream: right, so you're in implementation specific land when you don't follow that grammar. 17:22:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.43.10] has joined #lisp 17:23:00 On either side of the argument, I'd probably settle for a warning more than an error. 17:24:08 Xach: hi 17:24:56 A warning would be the bare minimum... But I don't think anyone sane would willingly rely on this behavior. (or defend it as not-a-bug, but anyway ;P) 17:25:18 Hexstream: the bug is in the user's code, not the implementation, here. 17:25:38 It's in both places. 17:26:16 No, the way the spec works is that it defines what is a legal CL program (a precondition, if you will), and how it should be interpreted by a compliant CL implementation. 17:26:30 If the input isn't in CL, all bets are off. 17:27:20 What happens when two packages have the same nickname? 17:27:31 jtza8: You get a name conflict... 17:27:42 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-127.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:27:50 jtza8: the universe implodes 17:27:56 Essentially, the system will prevent you from making the second package with the same nickname. 17:27:57 I take it you can shadow one though. 17:28:35 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:40 right? 17:28:45 no 17:28:57 ah 17:29:15 Is there a way around that then? 17:29:17 -!- Wakko10Warner [~themudkip@unaffiliated/wakko9warner] has left #lisp 17:29:21 vokoda` [~user@host109-153-36-77.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:23 Use another nickname. 17:29:37 clhs rename-package 17:29:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rn_pkg.htm 17:29:42 Or don't load both packages in the same image. 17:29:44 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:58 Thanks stassats :) 17:30:05 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-127.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:49 hi ppl 17:30:59 -!- mosva [~mosva@unaffiliated/mosva] has quit [Quit: mosva] 17:31:06 programmable programming language? 17:31:08 stassats: yeah, hideshow would do the trick but doesn't handle strings out of the box, I'll try to hack something later :-) 17:31:22 -!- vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:31:51 ale`: another solutions is not to write docstrings in the first place 17:32:33 stassats: if only you could start like that, then press a key combination to make them appear. 17:33:08 stassats: I like documentation strings, I forget things too easily :-/ 17:33:28 there are packages to generate documentation from docstrings, clearly, there must be the opposite as well 17:33:40 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 17:33:59 since documentation from docstrings is usually atrocious, i expect docstrings from documentation to be better 17:35:41 -!- Atomsk is now known as ace4016 17:35:53 ale`: having more illuminating function names and parameter names helps too 17:35:56 stassats: Seconded!! At some point I want to generate docstrings from texinfo. And I'd hate to have docstrings in the way so I'd generate a docstrings.lisp and use SETF DOCUMENTATION. Seems like a good compromise?... 17:36:28 i wouldn't know, i don't write documentation 17:36:37 stassats: the function names are ok, but I often forget the format of the function arguments.. having a quick remainder helps sometimes 17:36:46 pkhuong: That's vacuously true. I'm all for giving implementations leeway to make extensions. But when a behavior is clearly undefined per the HyperSpec and the implementation has no intent of explicitly allowing the behavior, then it should disallow it explicitly if the situation is easy to detect, which it is in this case. 17:37:17 urandom__ [~user@p548A2FB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:58 What would be the motivation for listing keynames after &allow-other-keys? 17:38:07 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:38:21 s/keynames/keywords/ 17:39:21 Yay. The new build infrastructure for matlisp works much better than before. And supports parallel (source) builds too. 17:39:22 tmh: Bugs happen. You might generate a faulty lambda list with a macro. A nice error message would be appropriate. And a newbie might think that you can use &allow-other-keys anywhere and accidentally make his code nonportable. 17:39:40 -!- ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@213.246.116.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:41:08 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:12 A better answer might be: "There is no valid motivation to do so, so it should be disallowed." 17:41:13 Hexstream: I agree with you that it should generate an error, I was just trying to think of a situation that would argue conversely. 17:41:21 Hexstream: non-standard! it clearly can be ported by swapping keyvars 17:41:38 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:42:10 Xach: replace dest source 17:43:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:35 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.54.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:44:38 In fact, SBCL already correctly signals an error for (destructuring-bind (&rest test this) '(thing) (values test this)), a very similar situation. 17:44:38 vokoda`` [~user@host109-153-57-75.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:29 -!- ale` [~user@dhcp-892b3c1a.ucd.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:54 it does signal an error in ordinary lambda lists 17:45:56 -!- vokoda` [~user@host109-153-36-77.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:11 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.65.39] has joined #lisp 17:47:16 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:01 stassats: Nice. Another confirmation that this is indeed a bug :) 17:48:22 it's not a "bug", but a "wishlist" 17:48:51 it's better to pen a ticket on LP, if you don't want this to be forgotten 17:49:18 i intended "open", but "pen" works too 17:49:20 stassats: Yeah, I'll file a few bugs. 17:52:57 kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.173] has joined #lisp 17:52:57 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.173] has quit [Changing host] 17:52:57 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:52:58 Xach: is there any reason [xy](min)|(max) accessors aren't exported? 17:54:30 and rotate-degrees is exported, but isn't documented 17:56:07 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:44 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-whvvljnpgohxzggo] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:57:05 stassats: I'm not sure. Maybe the intent was for people to use the exported and documented zpb-ttf bounding box functions. 17:57:36 *stassats* adds (:import-from :zpb-ttf :xmin :xmax :ymin :ymax) 18:01:30 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.199.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:53 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-169-135-129.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:02:12 might be that you're not supposed to setf those (: 18:03:00 *Xach* would like to see a new library that is like vecto but a lot better designed and implemented 18:03:20 what's wrong with Vecto? It gets the job quite nicely :) 18:03:20 i second this motion 18:03:29 *job done 18:03:38 hargettp: it could do the job even better 18:03:42 with more DWIM 18:03:55 one example? 18:04:04 or rather, with more DWIS 18:04:08 It's a bit too low-level for what I want to do 99% of the time, so I use a layer on top that makes objects out of points, colors, rectangles, etc. 18:04:21 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:25 vectometry? 18:04:28 yes. 18:04:32 ah...fair enough :) 18:04:40 vectometry, unfortunately, is not documented or finished or polished either. 18:05:12 "we don't need no documentation" 18:05:32 i'd also like to see vecto either embrace the pixels-in-a-buffer idea fully (and expose that buffer) or embrace the "one-api-multiple-backends" idea and make e.g. the same program produce PNGs and PDFs. 18:06:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.43.10] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:06:15 xach: okay, embracing pixels-in-a-buffer would be sweet--and a foundation for new backends, too 18:06:17 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 18:06:25 also it should be hardware-accelerated with opengl, and have a moon-on-a-stick and pony primitive... 18:06:37 and a double-rainbow? 18:06:40 :) 18:06:45 *Xach* has no time for such things 18:06:52 lol 18:06:52 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:07:08 Xach: Since you're accept requests, I want a unicorn, too. 18:11:36 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:12:16 alexshendi [~alexshend@dslb-178-002-229-138.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:37 Well, Direct3D provides a teapot as a pseudo-primitive 18:14:33 Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.11] has joined #lisp 18:15:34 the teapotagon 18:16:25 -!- joebo [cf3af714@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.58.247.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:16:30 sometimes I wish my physical teapot was hardware-accelerated as nicely as the ones in my computer 18:16:58 so you could throw it at people and it would hurt? antifuchs, I'm astonished 18:17:34 -!- xan_ [~xan@6.134.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:17:55 I was thinking about the contents, rather 18:17:57 woo, ADW-charting plots in my REPL 18:18:20 especially, the boiling and steeping thereof 18:18:30 Krystof: is there any particular reason swankR uses temp files for images instead of sending the data over the wire? 18:18:33 causing pain is optional (: 18:18:37 astoon [~astoon@109.188.199.131] has joined #lisp 18:18:43 swankr-media even 18:19:43 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 18:20:12 mathrick: because it's easier? 18:20:43 unless you work on a remote instance 18:20:49 I can't remember 18:21:06 possibly because it was the first expedient I could think of 18:21:12 I'm asking partially because I figured out how to do it without temp files 18:21:16 oh good 18:21:20 it wasn't trivial, emacs's characters are a mess 18:21:25 that might have been why 18:22:02 http://sei.meidokon.net/files/slime-plots.png 18:22:09 antifuchs: simply travel at close to the speed of light for a few subjective seconds, and your tea will be ready when you come back! 18:22:24 (short of instant tea this is likely the only solution to the steeping thing) 18:22:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:23:11 rsynnott: that seems like it could work. brb. 18:23:40 *rsynnott* is sure that if magical near-speed-of-light stuff ever becomes available, people will use it mostly to avoid waiting for stuff 18:23:44 Krystof: want me to put the source somewhere? It's utterly trivial, but the trick is to call encode-coding-string 18:25:09 dunno 18:25:19 I have negative spare cycles for the next month 18:26:10 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 18:26:43 kanen [~kanen@64.134.20.11] has joined #lisp 18:26:44 rsynnott: you could also put the teapot somewhere with less gravity 18:26:51 Krystof: http://sei.meidokon.net/files/slime-plots.png <-- you can see all of the source here :) 18:27:02 Xach: this friday I'm going to use that piece of software you seen to command the robot :) 18:27:24 i'll be in my bunker 18:27:51 stassats: don't worry it's an electrophoresis machine 18:28:13 no wheels, or grabbing claws? 18:28:31 rsynnott: yes, but they're covered with an hard top 18:28:35 Posterdati: i bet death from electrophoresis isn't nice 18:28:43 schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BEAC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:50 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:29:00 carlocci [~nes@93.37.177.177] has joined #lisp 18:29:11 stassats: my software should stress the machine to find new bugs/problems 18:29:20 and vice versa I'm sure. 18:29:24 "to command the robot" is one of those phrases best uttered during a thunderstorm 18:29:44 rsynnott: well it is a robot indeed 18:30:13 Posterdati: come back when you have an army of robots 18:30:16 has anyone in the position to do it considered re-enabling lisppaste notifications in #lisp? 18:30:17 rsynnott: it has an arm to take tools and operate with them 18:30:33 it doesn't seem they cause any issues in #emacs anymore 18:30:36 stassats: we have produced and sold 100 of it 18:30:42 so hopefully it'd be safe here as wele 18:30:44 *well 18:30:44 -!- GeneralMaximus [~general@122.161.212.239] has quit [Quit: See you in another life.] 18:31:00 stassats: an army of lisped robots 18:31:05 Posterdati: i conform to such definition of a robot 18:31:27 ekthterminate? we are the thuperior beingth? 18:31:55 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:32:09 stassats: it is a robot because it does the same things a human would do to perform an electrophoresis based analysis 18:32:38 will it procrastinate? 18:32:48 stassats: so it is an automated machine, working alone with no user need 18:33:03 stassats: not generally, but there could be exceptions 18:33:07 because that's what i would do when confronted with a task 18:33:42 stassats: then use "pomodore technique" 18:33:50 stassats: sorry, then use "pomodoro technique" 18:34:24 stassats: another problem I have to solve is the scheduling 18:35:09 procrastination is a very effective scheduling tool. Just assign all slots to doing nothing :) 18:36:06 and remember to do it later ;) 18:36:25 guinness [~user@216.252.75.210] has joined #lisp 18:36:31 mathrick: no, to do something, but unrelated to the task 18:36:44 hey, anyone know a good clos tutorial? 18:36:55 like talking off-topic in #lisp 18:36:58 minion: keene? 18:36:59 keene: "Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp: A Programmer's Guide to CLOS" by Sonya E Keene. http://www.cliki.net/keene 18:37:19 stassats, thx 18:37:24 guinness: PCL also has CLOS chapters, rather accessible ones 18:37:32 minion: PCL? 18:37:32 PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 18:38:22 Keene was better for me, with no prior experience of Object Oriented Programming 18:38:51 stassats, sadly, I've done too much java and c++ 18:40:24 guinness: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3243735416407529@naggum.no.html has some high-level comments on OO in CL. 18:41:35 you guys rock 18:41:38 I wonder if Dijkstra's quote about programmers being mentally mutilated by BASIC will be updated for Java/C++ etc : 18:41:52 :) 18:44:11 Xach: did you manage to read every book on your bookshelf? 18:44:19 Isn't Djikstra dead? 18:44:24 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:44:46 -!- CyberDomovoy [~cd@AToulouse-257-1-37-16.w90-5.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:45:17 Xach: im referring to the bookshelf on your site. 18:45:34 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:40 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:45:47 sysfault: I don't know which you mean. I have books left to read. Even some Lisp books. 18:46:37 Xach: all the books listed on your personal website. 18:46:54 I've read maybe a third of all the books on my literal shelf :( 18:47:10 sysfault: That's not really an appropriate topic for #lisp. 18:47:38 is there #xach channel? 18:47:49 :-) 18:47:55 -!- cOOLz [snacoolz@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-bmtpblrbzuuuuwti] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 18:48:02 stassats: Yes. 18:48:21 jesusabdullah, djikstra died in 2002 18:48:37 Wikipedia confirms 18:48:55 cOOLz [snacoolz@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-rmwxntyoseuvuhbk] has joined #lisp 18:48:58 Maybe the Ghost of Dijkstra will update his original quote 18:48:59 -!- dmv_ [~daniel@187.35.239.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:49:02 Dijkstra didn't have to, many people replaced Basic with "VB and/or Java" mentally 18:49:14 Xach: I was expecting a yes or no answer, Im not new to this channel. 18:49:33 In related news, Wikipedia confirms that Dijkstra was born by C-section to a troupe of Taiwanese acrobats known as the "Wong Bats" 18:49:46 I'm of course imagining Dijkstra's Ghost as the ghost of Obi-Wan Kenobi but Dutch 18:49:59 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 18:50:15 *stassats* wonders where is he 18:50:16 dlowe: It also at one time confirmed that bats are, in fact, tiny little bears with wings. 18:50:20 But back to lisp! 18:51:42 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:56 -!- dmytrish [~dmytrish@193.84.77.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:52:55 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:09 Here, I got one for you: I'm thinking it would be nice/fun to make my own mini-language of sorts. What would be a good place to learn about lexxing and parsing and such? With an emphasis on using lisp is, of course, just fine. 18:54:23 making mini-languages is a lot easier if you make lisps 18:54:34 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:54:44 In my head, I'm imagining doing a transformation into s-expressions 18:55:07 Skip the transform part? 18:55:14 -!- kanen [~kanen@64.134.20.11] has left #lisp 18:55:21 Well, in a lot of cases I think that makes sense 18:55:46 but here's an example: I wrote a little thing, as a day project, that would roll dice using d20-style notation 18:55:48 dmv_ [~daniel@187.35.236.190] has joined #lisp 18:55:54 for example, (roll 3 d 6 + 2) 18:56:09 rolls 3 six-sided dice, sums and adds 2 18:56:17 Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:56:26 (+ (roll "3d6") 2)? 18:56:40 You could do that, sure 18:56:50 (+ (d 3 6) 2)? 18:56:59 but what I'd *really* like to do is say something more like, (roll 3d6+2) 18:57:06 or, (roll 3d6 + 2) 18:57:18 and have it understand THAT without turning 3d6 into a number 18:57:23 for example 18:57:23 (+ (times 3 #'roll 6) 2) 18:57:28 I don't think I'll ACTUALLY do this 18:57:29 -!- Kaek [~b@c-9ccde253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 18:57:49 you're trying to program against the grain 18:57:49 Keep in mind, I already have (roll 3 d 6 + 2); that was easy. 18:58:33 (+ [3d6] 2) 18:58:43 What's the cream of the crop for static lisp analysis? 18:58:57 Quadrescence: the sbcl compiler :D 18:59:00 Xach: brackets? 18:59:05 CyberDomovoy [~cd@AToulouse-553-1-269-45.w90-5.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:59:09 Xach: What do those do? 18:59:18 Quadrescence: there's lisp-critic 18:59:24 I uninstalled sbcl to make room for R :( 18:59:25 jesusabdullah: you can make it mean "roll 3d6 and return the result" 18:59:35 jesusabdullah: or whatever else you want. 18:59:45 hmm 18:59:53 argh, it's annoying that there's no sensible way to require ASDF extensions like ASDF-system-connections 19:00:15 jesusabdullah: that seems like the sort of thing where it would be appropriate to parse user commands, and use a more natural expression in the code 19:00:25 jmckitrick [~user@adsl-176-181-200.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:59 rsynnott: Yeah, probably. To be honest, that isn't the exact use I have in mind---that was just something I already had laying around. 19:01:46 A better example would probably be: I think I want to make a sort of template-ish language, which can take code blocks and replace them with either latex-formatted code snippets, executed code results, or both 19:02:00 and don't want to have to quote code blocks 19:02:11 hmm 19:02:41 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 19:02:59 Anyways. 19:03:20 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 19:03:21 Perhaps I need to think about my goals some more. Perhaps my inquiries are too open-ended 19:03:31 Or, they're just not the *right* questions. 19:04:05 -!- vokoda`` [~user@host109-153-57-75.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:23 vokoda`` [~user@host86-186-199-61.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:41 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:06:49 -!- jmckitrick [~user@adsl-176-181-200.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:08:13 -!- splittist [~John@98.89.202.62.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: That seems likely] 19:08:23 is this #xach channel? 19:08:31 c00kiemon5ter [~c00kiemon@unaffiliated/c00kiemon5ter] has joined #lisp 19:09:10 Posterdati: no. this #lisp channel. 19:09:22 hi all, I'm total noob, I'm actually guessing code. I want to ask what the (modify ..) line does in this function 19:09:25 http://sprunge.us/JVfN 19:09:26 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:47 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:09:57 c00kiemon5ter: that isn't a standard function or macro, so it would help to have the context to understand what it means. 19:10:22 like the definition of deffunction for starters. 19:10:26 -!- mnemonicsloth [~user@cpe-071-076-250-251.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:10:29 Xach: bah, vectometry isn't in quicklisp! 19:10:49 stassats: nope. sorry. it would require much more baking to be even half-baked. 19:11:01 I'm building a World of Wumpus game, and I use Jess to call that code (that's actually the rules) from Java. 19:11:14 i like boxtext, i'd just steal it then 19:11:20 c00kiemon5ter: i'm afraid i only understand three or four words from that sentence. 19:11:23 so if I want to export foo:cons, any package that uses foo and cl has to either do a shadowing-import-from or shadow cons? 19:11:30 so when I want my player to turn direction (look up so that he can move up etc) I call this 19:11:31 slyrus: yes. 19:11:32 mperillo [~manlio@151.56.67.227] has joined #lisp 19:11:59 Jess a library to run lisp code from Java code 19:12:02 Xach: thanks God then 19:12:14 World of Wumpus is a game .. 19:12:19 it would be nice if there were a way to do some sort of shadowed-export such that cons would give one cl:cons and foo:cons would yield foo:cons by default... 19:12:23 c00kiemon5ter: Are you sure? My googling suggests that Jess is a rules engine for java :S 19:12:39 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:12:46 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13:15 c00kiemon5ter: Does Jess uses a lispy DSL? 19:14:06 that;s what jess says: http://sprunge.us/bgaE (not lisp lisp, but lisp-like) 19:14:16 jesusabdullah: so it seems 19:14:23 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:39 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:15:54 In that case, I don't think anybody will know what to make of Jess code. Probably your best bet is either http://www.jessrules.com/jess/docs/71/ or whatever support the Jess project offers. 19:16:38 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.87.246] has joined #lisp 19:16:51 ok, my problem is that I'm reading this code and I'm trying to understand how it works so that I can fix it. The Java line that calls that ^ turn function (or definition or w/e it is) is this: 19:16:56 engine.eval("(turn " + explorer_fact_number + " " + 0 + " )"); 19:17:04 and explorer_fact_number is set to 66 19:17:11 and I have no idea why that is 19:17:36 -!- mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-20-213.uqwimax.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:39 I also know this is all pretty abstract so I'll stop, thanks anyway :) 19:18:26 Good luck. 19:18:39 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.87.246] has quit [Client Quit] 19:19:31 mnemonicsloth [~user@cpe-071-076-250-251.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:04 -!- c00kiemon5ter [~c00kiemon@unaffiliated/c00kiemon5ter] has left #lisp 19:24:48 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:24:58 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:13 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:25:25 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-24-236.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:25:46 *Phoodus* just noticed the misguided Jess talk. wow 19:27:59 and yes, it's definitely a rule engine. And it has sexpr syntax, derived from CLIPS, which was a usable C++ implementation of generally Lisp rule engines back in the time when Lisp was "too slow" 19:28:10 (for those who care) 19:28:28 did I accidentally ignorant? D: 19:29:00 no, you're right. It's a java rules engine, but it reads .clp files which are sexpr syntax 19:29:13 Okay 19:33:11 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-127.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:33:40 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:33:49 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:33:58 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-182-108.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:35:24 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-182-108.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:36 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:05 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-182-108.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:42:32 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 19:42:37 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:19 _8david: ping 19:45:24 goedel [~steffen@unaffiliated/goedel] has joined #lisp 19:46:45 -!- goedel [~steffen@unaffiliated/goedel] has quit [Client Quit] 19:47:59 dmv__ [~daniel@187.34.52.1] has joined #lisp 19:48:35 jdz [~jdz@host125-106-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:48:36 <_8david> hi 19:49:24 -!- dmv_ [~daniel@187.35.236.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:51:16 -!- dmv__ is now known as dmv_ 19:51:37 hans_ [~hans@host10-91-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:55:19 -!- hans_ [~hans@host10-91-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:55:51 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 19:56:20 huangho [~vitor@201-66-133-129.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:57:15 hans__ [~hans@host10-91-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:57:22 Hello! Is it possible for a reader macro to expand into two forms? 19:57:29 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:57:40 no 19:57:55 it's possible to expand into PROGN 19:58:04 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.49.51.192] has joined #lisp 19:58:04 so I guessed 19:58:15 progn does not serve my purposes 19:58:27 but I have already solved the problem in another way 19:58:40 hello-lispers. 19:58:40 -!- astoon [~astoon@109.188.199.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:58:41 I wanted (!f x y) to expand into (funcall f x y) 19:58:56 mephisto_ [~mephisto@CPE00163625fbf5-CM00407b85ff2a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:59:10 huangho: how many forms are that? 19:59:17 !f -> funcall f 19:59:26 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.65.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:59:26 huangho: no. 19:59:43 huangho: (!f x y) -> (funcall f x y) 19:59:49 is one form to one form 19:59:53 uh 19:59:55 what an ugly reader-macro 20:00:01 Is there some way to get find-all-symbols to return with a package qualifier even when the found symbol is only found in current package? 20:00:03 hans___ [~hans@host10-91-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:00:08 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:00:19 ehu: it is, but are you really suggesting that this be done in the #\( macro? 20:00:42 mon_key: find-all-symbols returns symbols, package qualifiers are only meaningful when reading or printing 20:00:52 e.g. instead of (in-package :CL-USER) (find-all-symbols "FIND-ALL-SYMBOLS") => (FIND-ALL-SYMBOLS) 20:01:04 Krystof: uh. no. I'm misunderstanding the question. 20:01:17 However, I would recommend not doing it at all. 20:01:21 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.54.133] has joined #lisp 20:01:24 mon_key: (let ((*package* (find-package :keyword))) (print (find-all-symbols "FIND-ALL-SYMBOLS")))? 20:01:36 it should probably expand to ((lambda (&rest args) (apply f args)) x y) 20:01:36 stassats: OK. So how come find-symbol returns with the qualifer? 20:01:37 I made it expand into lambda 20:01:44 Xach: Thanks! 20:01:45 !f -> (lambda (&rest args) (apply f args)) 20:01:56 yes, I did just that :-) 20:02:01 that is horrible beyond belief 20:02:05 congratulations :-) 20:02:08 I just wanted to know if there was another way 20:02:19 it's worse that bad C. 20:02:28 mon_key: it doesn't return any qualifiers 20:02:31 you sure you wouldn't rather just repurpose {}? 20:02:43 dlowe: I have awful code for that (: 20:02:48 Xach: well that didn't work for me either... 20:03:00 pkhuong: {} -> (PROGN ...)? 20:03:37 plus function and value binding 20:03:38 mon_key: it didn't print the list with package prefixes? 20:03:55 Xach: No. 20:04:09 mon_key: how very curious. it did for me. then it printed the result list, too. 20:04:23 gruesome 20:04:43 mon_key: did you understand what i said about qualifiers? 20:04:43 Xach: Sorry, It does. I didn't switch to REPL (: 20:04:46 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 20:05:03 stassats: yes, but it _does_ return as if by values 20:05:12 which is meaningfull 20:05:59 what you just said is meaningless to me 20:06:15 vokoda``` [~user@host109-156-4-190.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:15 find-all-symbols returns symbols, how they will be printed depends on the printer 20:06:16 e.g. where `find-symbol' defaults to current package its 2nd values will tell you where symbol was found 20:06:47 every symbol has a package 20:07:04 stassats: I guess that is what I am asking is there a *print-* special to affect this? 20:07:18 mon_key: yes. 20:07:19 there is *package* 20:07:25 mon_key: *print-escape* 20:07:38 -!- vokoda`` [~user@host86-186-199-61.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:12 ehu: not quite. 20:08:17 ehu: (let ((*print-escape* nil)) (find-all-symbols "FIND-ALL-SYMBOLS")) won't do it 20:08:41 mon_key: Do you understand why the form I showed prints what it prints with PRINT and what it prints as the return value? 20:08:52 Am I amiss again? 20:08:58 he wants the prefixes, right? 20:09:03 the extent of your *print-escape*-binding is out of scope of printing of the returning value 20:09:23 *print-escape* needs to be T 20:09:25 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-66-133-129.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:09:30 to print package prefixes. 20:09:38 Xach: I think i understand why the switch to :keyword. I'm reading up on `print' now. 20:09:49 ehu: *print-escape* of T will not print package prefixes if *package* is the same as the package of the symbol. 20:10:02 ehu: I tried with both t/nil 20:10:05 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@CPE00163625fbf5-CM00407b85ff2a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:10 sort of. 20:10:29 Bronsa [~brace@host26-180-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:10:44 Xach: ah. right. 20:10:48 *print-escape* doesn't affect PRINT 20:11:20 and *print-escape* only works when *print-readably* is NIL 20:11:27 mephisto_ [~mephisto@CPE00163625fbf5-CM00407b85ff2a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:51 Xach: Because print is really `prin1' so it prints-readably??? 20:11:57 mon_key: no. 20:12:29 Xach: OK, so then it was lost on me. Can you enlighten? 20:12:50 mon_key: do you know REPL means? 20:13:15 stassats: Rogue Evaluation Prints Lossage? 20:13:38 right, P means "Print" 20:13:59 so, your returned value is printed by the printer 20:14:12 mon_key: when printing a symbol, if the symbol is accessible in *package*, it is not printed with a package prefix. an exception to that mechanism is made for the keyword package. so when printing, the value of *package* is consulted to see how to print. 20:14:12 how it's printed is affected by various environment variables 20:14:53 mon_key: in the form i gave, the explicit call to PRINT happened in a scope where *package* was the keyword package, but the return value was also printed with *package* being some other value. so it prints in two different ways. 20:15:01 mon_key: they are printing the same objects, though. 20:15:07 Xach: Thanks again, that makes sense. And it is reflected by what SBCL itself does when looking for symbols. 20:15:20 not SBCL-specific. 20:15:37 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:15:46 Yes, I know. But I looked at the source and saw similiarly. 20:16:35 -!- guinness [~user@216.252.75.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:41 So, the switch to :keywords is not relevant except wrt `intern'? 20:17:05 it is very relevant to PRINT. 20:17:14 OK, howso? 20:17:34 scroll back to where I wrote "when printing a symbol, ..." and read it very hard. 20:17:55 see also http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_a.htm#accessible 20:19:16 Xach: I reread. 20:19:27 see also http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3165125191606936@naggum.no.html 20:20:41 Saturnation [~dsouth@71.169.186.90] has joined #lisp 20:22:32 _8david: I added pty support to create-process, bitte testen 20:28:42 leifw [~leif@ool-18b966a4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:52 <_8david> The diff looks very promising. I'll test ASAP. 20:30:41 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:30:49 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has left #lisp 20:31:24 <_8david> Assuming it works, the next thing I'll bother you about will be tcsetattr. :-) 20:31:40 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 20:32:04 <_8david> I think I'll need to fix the timeout problem first though. 20:34:32 <_8david> Admittedly the virtues of build-it tcsetattr support are debatable. If it's meant to cover both the pty use case of sbcl's run-program, and also cover what hemlock needs, the arguments would actually have to be configurable. 20:34:51 <_8david> E.g., IIRC SBCL set noecho, whereas hemlock actually needs echo. 20:35:25 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:39:42 how is hemock doing? 20:39:52 _8david: I tried it with sudo here and it seems to work 20:39:55 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 20:42:47 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-88-84.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:44:09 Xach: see also http://lisperweasel.blogspot.com/ 20:45:44 Xach: ok? 20:46:00 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:24 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-88-84.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:46:33 Posterdati: my eyes are too tired to read it. 20:47:14 -!- mnemonicsloth [~user@cpe-071-076-250-251.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:47:46 Xach: I'm too tired too 20:50:03 -!- leifw [~leif@ool-18b966a4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:51:11 brodo [~brodo@p5B025298.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:30 Xach: Thanks again for the links. Looks like the canonical HSPEC ref is "22.1.3.3.1 Package Prefixes for Symbols" 20:54:22 leifw [~leif@ool-18b966a4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:32 Xach: where are you from? USA? 20:54:39 Posterdati: I don't want to talk about it. 20:54:58 Xach: uh ok... 20:56:09 ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@213.246.116.21] has joined #lisp 20:57:45 -!- leifw [~leif@ool-18b966a4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:58:18 dmytrish [~dmytrish@88.154.106.84] has joined #lisp 21:01:25 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:01 -!- ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@213.246.116.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:02:34 hi Fare 21:02:50 -!- vokoda``` [~user@host109-156-4-190.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:08 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 21:04:45 hi 21:04:48 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:05:10 -!- schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BEAC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:08:56 -!- hans__ [~hans@host10-91-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:56 -!- hans___ [~hans@host10-91-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:14 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:10:50 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-107-145.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 21:10:58 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.54.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:12:29 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.145.204] has joined #lisp 21:12:50 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:13:08 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:13:13 -!- alexshendi [~alexshend@dslb-178-002-229-138.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:14:27 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:14:51 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has joined #lisp 21:15:12 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:19:06 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-164-32.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20:53 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-170-249.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:22 mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-20-213.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 21:22:12 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:51 Does anyone know of a git mirror of maxima? 21:24:03 -!- tcleval [bb3a5a93@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.58.90.147] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:25:36 delYsid` [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:26:02 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:26:31 alexshendi [~alexshend@dslb-178-002-229-138.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:35 -!- sm` is now known as Stefanot 21:26:44 -!- Stefanot [~s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Changing host] 21:26:44 Stefanot [~s@unaffiliated/stefanot] has joined #lisp 21:26:47 -!- Stefanot is now known as sm` 21:26:53 -!- delYsid` is now known as delYsid 21:26:57 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has left #lisp 21:27:12 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Changing host] 21:27:12 delYsid [~user@debian/developer/mlang] has joined #lisp 21:27:16 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2FB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:21 malbertife [~malbertif@bl11-45-221.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:27:44 adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-209-98.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:08 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:16 -!- adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-209-98.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:28:17 hi, is it OK to ask a question about SLIME here? 21:28:55 sure 21:29:16 adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-209-98.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:48 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:29:56 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:30:01 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:07 good. I am using SLIME from cvs, and with m-x slime the *slime repl* buffer doesn't show up; i tried with ccl and sbcl 21:30:23 i only get the inferior-lisp buffer 21:30:40 malbertife: you need to use the slime-repl contrib 21:30:42 malbertife: you need to call (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) in your .emacs 21:30:49 I slime-fancy will pull that in 21:30:50 (which will enable most of the common contribs) 21:34:43 i tried slime-fancy and requiring slime-repl, but it didn't work 21:35:01 did you do (require 'slime-fancy) or something? 21:35:14 it needs to go in that (slime-setup ) form p_l|backup pasted above 21:35:24 (there's a bit more stuff involved, and slime is picky) 21:35:30 i did (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) 21:35:35 also, you'll need to restart the lisp 21:36:17 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:25 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:01 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:25 i restarted the lisp (actually, shut down emacs and restarted) 21:38:38 hmmm. 21:38:44 here is the relevant portion of my .emacs: http://paste.lisp.org/+2JUH 21:39:16 ah, could be that the (require 'slime-autoloads) is too much there... also, you don't need (require 'slime-repl) 21:39:28 try taking those two out, see if it'll work 21:39:41 also, is there an error in your *inferior-lisp* buffer? 21:40:49 antifuchs: removing the (require 'slime-autoloads) did it 21:40:52 thank you all 21:40:55 excellent (: 21:40:56 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:41:05 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@CPE00163625fbf5-CM00407b85ff2a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:53 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025298.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 21:44:19 statonjr-ios [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:44:59 slime-autoloads should be used in a special way, but it's easier not to use them at all 21:45:28 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host26-180-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:45:54 much easier (: 21:46:01 stassats: what special way ? 21:46:10 I'll do so for now 21:46:24 step one: be either Helmut or stassats (-; 21:46:45 fe[nl]ix: i've never had an incentive to figure it out 21:47:03 because i don't really like autoloads, i'd rather wait more time on start-up 21:47:43 once a month 21:50:08 iommi [~iommi@59.Red-88-18-71.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:48 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-88-84.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:53:03 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 21:57:32 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:00:06 Baddy [~loverwari@41.153.204.64] has joined #lisp 22:00:23 heya all 22:00:32 paul0 [~user@189.114.198.29.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 22:02:08 -!- Baddy [~loverwari@41.153.204.64] has left #lisp 22:02:33 drakma wants to return all bodies in binary octet format, what must I do to assuage the anger of the gods and get me some text? 22:03:25 make the web-server to set the right content-type 22:03:44 failing that, use :content-type parameter 22:04:07 hehe, I was using lisp.org as a test :P 22:04:16 stassats: nope, that's the content-type for post content 22:04:40 thats what the docs say, and it didnt work 22:04:51 :additional-headers with an appropriate Accept line might work, though 22:04:53 I tried setting external-format-in, to no effect 22:05:50 also, check *text-content-types* 22:06:07 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:06:17 or check that you're not passing :force-binary t (: 22:06:41 -!- statonjr-ios [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:07:40 *text-content-types* is "text" 22:08:05 no force-binary :P 22:08:40 (let ((drakma:*body-format-function* (constantly t))) (drakma:http-request ...)) 22:08:46 k9quaint: yeah, from lisp.org, I don't get a content-type either. 22:08:53 so drakma returns octets. bah! 22:09:21 well, alu web-site is notorious in many regards 22:09:36 haha, yeah 22:09:50 just read about destructuring-bind and how it can be used to pattern-match arguments of a function. 22:10:04 and instead of t in (constantly t) it should be an external format 22:10:08 Does anyone use this functionality? It seemed pretty interesting. 22:10:42 destructuring-bind is pretty basic and is used commonly 22:10:45 k9quaint: (let ((drakma:*body-format-function* (constantly :utf-8))) (drakma:http-request "http://lisp.org/")) works for me - you might have to adjust for the actual external format 22:11:08 that did it, thanks :) 22:11:12 stassats: ah, yeah, saw that too late 22:11:41 stassats: oh, cool. Thanks. Thought it was something not used commonly. 22:13:16 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:13:37 mishoo: jdz: do you know why we did not destructuring-bind or destrucuring parameter lists at http://paste.lisp.org/display/118953#1 22:13:56 mishoo: jbz: was not sure if there was any reason for not using it. 22:14:07 jdz: s/jbz/jdz/ 22:14:40 "redirect..." notoriously notorious 22:14:47 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:15:07 haha, yeah, that's just silly (: 22:15:55 bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:17:22 joe6: where would you use it? 22:17:30 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:19:13 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:22:01 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.145.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:23:31 are there any existing (sane) packages that require that one do a (:shadowing-import-from #:cl ) in order to :use the package? 22:23:36 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.49.44] has joined #lisp 22:24:08 statonjr-ios [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:24:34 i often do that for my packages 22:25:39 slyrus: CLIM does 22:25:41 because i don't want to come up with bizarre synonyms for REMOVE, and DELETE is already taken 22:25:46 and I think closer to mop might. 22:25:51 -!- csamuelson [~user@173-14-110-121-nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:26:00 droplicate 22:26:05 antifuchs: they both have a closer-to-cl and clim-cl packages 22:26:07 Joreji [~thomas@72-022.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:26:10 right 22:26:28 if you want both, you have to use shadowing-i-f though (: 22:27:17 fset exports lots of symbols that clash with cl's too 22:27:19 antifuchs: I said sane :) 22:27:51 i generally avoid :use, unless it's some integral component used everywhere, like vecto 22:28:10 I'd like to avoid a chemicl-cl package, just because the CL folks misappropriated the symbol ATOM 22:29:30 use corpuscle instead? 22:30:28 statonjr-ios_ [~statonjr@166.137.14.130] has joined #lisp 22:31:35 -!- jdz [~jdz@host125-106-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:31:48 slyrus: sb-posix 22:32:17 but there it's kind of a feature to use the package name in programming 22:32:20 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:26 -!- statonjr-ios [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:32 -!- statonjr-ios_ is now known as statonjr-ios 22:32:40 sb-posix:open, not something silly like [sb-posix:]sb-posix-open 22:32:43 thanks Krystof 22:33:39 yes, that's what I want. I want chem:atom to be, you know, the thing with protons, neutrons and electrons, and atom to be cl:atom. 22:33:39 cl should've used more names like car, cdr and fmakanbound 22:33:57 -!- statonjr-ios [~statonjr@166.137.14.130] has quit [Client Quit] 22:34:02 definitely 22:34:47 iolib does the same, iolib.syscalls:open 22:35:14 I suppose the other sane thing to do is to encourage more use of :import-from 22:35:49 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:29 stassats: indeed 22:36:46 or create a module system which is incomprehensible enough to resolve such issues 22:36:58 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-162-254.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:16 slyrus: import-from is easy to use as long as you don't need to export too many symbols 22:38:26 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:39:02 in elisp everything is easy, there is no package system, so you just write everything with package- prefix 22:39:14 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-112-233.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40:12 or package: (-: 22:40:20 snearch [~snearch@f053009236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:40:24 or package/ or package--, if you're particularly perverse 22:40:30 i haven't seen this 22:40:38 polymorphically perverse 22:40:57 bbdb/gnus-foo 22:41:31 that's a package named "bbdb/gnus" 22:43:03 <_3b> slime-repl-compile/force-system ? 22:43:28 <_3b> or is that compile/force as one term 22:43:55 well, that's not a package 22:44:13 *_3b* can't tell where org-plot/gnuplot divides either 22:44:22 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053009236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:44:41 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:00 elisp also has a flat namespace... its madness 22:49:53 I guess its a config language that got out of hand 22:50:13 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:50:17 Good morning everyone! 22:50:28 the other day I was knee deep in my .emacs and thought of using a config file to parameterise my emacs config 22:50:38 and decided it was time to take a step back :) 22:50:50 hi beach 22:51:10 Hey beach 22:51:44 I'm using clbuild2 and having a fun time trying to run maxima and stumpwm; they want a lisp command to run that they can pass various CLI options to 22:52:15 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52:27 but clbuild is already passing a bunch of options to sbcl and they seem to conflict 22:53:11 I guess I need to make an image and a wrapper shell script that execs it? 22:53:22 -!- wanderingelf [4817e03d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:53:28 -!- mperillo [~manlio@151.56.67.227] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 22:57:41 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 22:58:08 -!- dmytrish [~dmytrish@88.154.106.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:59:15 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:59:15 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 22:59:15 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 23:00:16 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:00:31 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-24-236.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:00:47 -!- malbertife [~malbertif@bl11-45-221.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:04:35 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-107-145.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:01 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 23:09:31 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: I'll see you on the dark side of the moon] 23:12:08 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 23:13:27 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:38 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-30-98.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:16:00 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:00 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:18:00 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 23:18:00 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 23:20:11 pmurias [~pawel@89-75-37-59.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 23:20:19 is lisp on lines good? 23:21:26 what i want to know did anyone have any bad/good experience with it 23:21:47 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:57 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff679e.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:22:29 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff679e.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 23:24:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@72-022.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:26:16 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:26:40 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff679e.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:14 I've wondered the same thing but have not found time to use it 23:27:47 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-4-27.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:29:26 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:17 spacebat: wow, I was just massively confused. a friend on another network uses that same nickname (: 23:31:45 I think drewc is pretty much happy with LoL, to answer your questions... but I don't know of anyone else who uses it 23:34:50 huangho [~vitor@201-66-150-112.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:35:03 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-22-110.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:35:17 :) 23:35:38 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:37:38 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 23:39:05 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:50 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:40:41 -!- Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:43:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:14 -!- tmh [6c491edf@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 23:50:29 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 23:52:31 -!- pmurias [~pawel@89-75-37-59.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:52:34 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-179-70.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:39 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:02 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.127.144] has joined #lisp 23:58:34 Onyxyte [~Onyxyte@r75-110-112-109.rmntcmtc02.rcmtnc.ab.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp