00:00:17 You'd need to either manipulate the stack pointer within the VOP, or have :TEMPORARY parameters allocated for your stack slots. But, as I said, you should be able to do this (most) operations in the register set anyway. 00:01:15 ok. thanks. I'll take your sugegstions and continue on it tomorrow (getting late) 00:01:28 Imagine that you have no stack slots, and the only registers available are called "START", "END", and "C". You should still be able to write code to produce the result you want. 00:01:36 Fair enough. Sleep well. 00:01:53 mimi [~mimi@94-225-197-41.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 00:01:58 thanks. see you all tomorrow 00:02:37 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 00:03:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:03:55 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:04:15 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.63.178] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:04:50 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:04:52 mephisto_ [~mephisto@ka-v834-130-63-4-230.airyork.yorku.ca] has joined #lisp 00:08:31 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:50 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.87.61.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:14:50 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:15:30 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-161-228.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:16 -!- az [~az@p4FE4F8A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:16:52 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:37 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.61.203.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:19:59 *Saturnation* wonders how hard it would be (or more exactly, how much effort would be involved) in developing a cross platform app with Lisp and GTK 00:20:37 Most Lisps are fairly cross platform and GTK runs on a variety of operating systems 00:20:52 I am determined to give it a go :) 00:20:53 So I'd think there's no special effort for the portability involved 00:21:16 The main thing for me would be to develop a cross platform automated build using Lisp 00:21:25 *Saturnation* is installing virtual box now... 00:22:14 Wakko10Warner [~themudkip@unaffiliated/wakko9warner] has joined #lisp 00:25:39 az [~az@p4FE4EA21.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:28:38 -!- mimi [~mimi@94-225-197-41.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:29:13 -!- serichsen [~user@f049164018.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 00:30:53 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 00:31:15 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:33:00 nilly [~nil@c-98-247-253-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:00 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CDB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:35:52 -!- brodo_ [~brodo@p5B023421.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo_] 00:36:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@72-022.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:36:34 Is there some good reason why emacs indents the first form in unwind-protect by 5? 00:38:08 nilly: because only the first form is "protected"? Or are you wondering about the indentation count itself? 00:38:25 -!- dmv_ [~daniel@187.10.44.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:38:42 The count seems a bit extreme to me, especially since it's usually a progn. 00:39:54 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@80-218-246-66.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:41:39 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:18 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:44:30 Saturnation: It's not really cross-platform if it uses GTK. 00:44:58 Xach: Huh? 00:46:44 GTK is cross platform, isn't it? 00:48:02 GTK works under windows afaik 00:50:19 *nyef* wouldn't accuse GTK of working /well/ under windows, but the situation might have improved since last he tried. 00:50:49 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:51:55 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:04 nyef, There's only one way to find out 00:52:25 -!- davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:36 Two that I can think of offhand, but neither worth the effort. 00:52:49 two? 00:52:50 Jesdisciple [~user@75.53.39.195] has joined #lisp 00:55:54 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 00:59:12 Yeah, I can try it myself, or I can ask someone. 00:59:33 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@ka-v834-130-63-4-230.airyork.yorku.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:35 Either way, not worth the bother for me at this point. 00:59:37 *Saturnation* is beginning to take nyef less and less seriously over time :) 00:59:44 obviously YOU don't care :P 01:00:10 *nyef* has phi-functions on the brain, and no hack-supporting windows box. 01:00:29 aren't all Windows boxes hack-compliant? 01:00:40 ;) 01:01:01 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:28 My one windows box is relegated to web browsing. Not about to try and use it for serious work. 01:02:02 (I was using the other two or three meanings of "hack") 01:02:25 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 01:03:01 *Saturnation* 's window box is dual booting Ubuntu, and I cannot remember the last time I DIDN'T boot into Ubuntu 01:03:30 nyef, that's part of the reason for using virtualbox 01:03:52 -!- Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-35-70.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:04:02 Saturnation: and *that* definitely demands effort. 01:04:34 -!- Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 01:04:39 Sure. Just never tried running vb on an n450, and the screen shrank since I installed my VMs, and... Hey, look, effort. And that's even before considering the disk space problem. 01:04:42 less than booting back and forth :P 01:05:36 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:38 for me, for the time being, it's worth setting up just to find out how good it may (or may not) be 01:06:11 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:06:19 Sure. Have fun. 01:06:36 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 01:10:51 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 01:12:59 -!- flinx [~flinx@c-68-33-142-62.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:15:21 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:54 -!- sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:16:54 sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:18:14 I seem to recall a way to copy a hash table...? 01:18:49 (I don't think it involved iterating via maphash or anything like that.) 01:19:33 I can't find copy or clone anywhere except in bug reports for usercode 01:19:39 via Google 01:21:29 Maybe something in alexandria? 01:21:59 that's the usercode I found =p 01:22:26 I coulda sworn the standard had something but Ctrl+F on the full list of functions didn't turn anything up 01:22:27 maphash is probably the simplest approach. 01:22:35 I don't believe so. 01:23:17 hrmph - copy for everything but hashtables *rolleyes* 01:23:31 thanks for the advice 01:23:45 If it's in alexandria, it's almost certainly not in the cl spec. 01:24:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-195.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:24:48 There's no built-on for copying arrays, either. 01:24:53 er, built-in. 01:25:50 Jesdisciple: problem with copying hash tables is that there are possibly non-standard initargs you might or might not want to copy 01:26:22 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:26:52 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-195.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:27:02 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:27:08 mephisto_ [~mephisto@kd-v135-130-63-240-299.airyork.yorku.ca] has joined #lisp 01:27:22 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:42 slyrus: just saw your problem with beirc. AFAIK, it /should/ handle unicode chars 01:28:05 slyrus: I think I patched cl-irc myself to enable utf-8 with latin-1 fallbacks. 01:28:06 Zhivago: true, although I don't see that being useful anytime soon - the fairly opaque description possibly being partly at fault 01:28:25 invalid magic number in core: 0xf145342434c should have been 0x5342434c 01:28:45 i get this when attempting to start the sbcl i compiled from git 01:29:03 i'm on a fresh ubuntu 10.10 64-bit. 01:29:06 mephist__ [~mephisto@kd-v135-130-63-240-299.airyork.yorku.ca] has joined #lisp 01:29:20 slyrus: that it's the beirc GUI process getting that error would point towards mcclim as the culprit 01:29:50 dto1: wow. what's the command line you're using to run sbcl? 01:29:57 and what does "file" report on the sbcl binary? 01:30:06 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@kd-v135-130-63-240-299.airyork.yorku.ca] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:30:09 i'm starting it from within Slime. i'll try from the command line. 01:30:28 *Jesdisciple* is suddenly glad to be on 9.10 01:31:39 jes: Well, the same could probably be said for hash-tables. :) 01:31:58 hmm. 01:32:26 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:33:16 i think i am doing something wrong. `which sbcl` says /usr/local/bin/sbcl , but maybe that's the ubuntu version. 01:33:35 i built sbcl with the prefix /usr/local 01:34:07 no. /usr/bin/sbcl is the ubuntu version. 01:34:07 Zhivago: no, I'm being very rebellious against Lisp with my destructive hashtables 01:34:28 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@79.124.201.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34:48 antifuchs: just typing "sbcl" at the shell prompt and pressing return makes it crash with that same message about a magic number and the LDB> prompt 01:35:05 dto1: and which sbcl is that using? "which sbcl" to find out 01:35:13 ah, wait. maybe I should read 01:35:22 :) 01:35:23 dto1: what's your SBCL_HOME set to? 01:35:34 jes: I don't see what's rebelious about that. 01:35:44 jes: Lisps are almost all procedural languages. 01:35:53 antifuchs: (setenv "SBCL_HOME" "/usr/local/lib/sbcl") 01:35:59 which also works in the shell 01:36:04 i.e. echo $SBCL_HOME 01:36:27 Zhivago: I was being half-serious, alluding to the Lisp convention to stay idempotent 01:36:39 weird. half-successful installation? can you run from the build directory with "src/runtime/sbcl --core output/sbcl.core"? 01:36:52 vilsonvieira [~vilson@187.112.204.12] has joined #lisp 01:36:55 (the more Schemish than CLish convention, but still) 01:37:16 antifuchs: that also fails with the same message and ldb prompt. 01:37:33 ok, that sounds like a candidate for the mailing list then (: 01:37:37 maybe my build dir is messed up? 01:37:45 that could be 01:37:46 i moved it and then did a git pull 01:37:49 or something 01:38:12 what's the proper place to get the latest sbcl? 01:38:21 i mean, HEAD. 01:38:42 git://git.boinkor.net/sbcl.git 01:39:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:40:08 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:40:43 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 01:41:43 compiling. 01:45:40 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 01:46:11 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:46:28 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.87.61.212] has joined #lisp 01:47:33 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 01:53:09 -!- pmurias [~pawel@89-75-37-59.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:53:30 antifuchs: must have been a b0rked build. works fine now. thanks :) 01:53:42 cool 01:54:39 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:56:08 How do you compile SBCL on a platform without any previous CL binaries? 01:56:27 Do you need to get a CL written in C first? 01:56:38 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 01:56:39 mosva [~mosva@unaffiliated/mosva] has joined #lisp 01:57:16 kuffaar: which OS? 01:57:50 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:58:20 Jesdisciple: Embedded stuff, it has a working C compiler though 01:58:35 I think it's some Motorola CPU 01:58:41 dang, was hoping you were on a distro with package-management 01:59:08 I just wanted to try to run CL on it for fun 01:59:23 But most Lisp interpreters are written in Lisp, right? 01:59:36 that I wouldn't know 02:00:17 kuffaar: sbcl compiles to native code so regardless of the boostrapping issue, it will have to know about the underlying cpu 02:00:27 kuffaar: Partially, at least. 02:00:33 so you'll either have to port it or find someone that did 02:00:43 or use a different CL implementation 02:00:49 maybe clisp 02:01:00 Oh, right, SBCL probably wouldn't work anyways 02:01:01 Right 02:01:15 kuffaar: What dialect do you require? 02:01:36 CL would be fun 02:01:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-165-18.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:02:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Common_Lisp 02:02:04 But I'd settle for a simpler Lisp if required 02:02:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Common_Lisp 02:02:08 woops 02:02:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Common_Lisp_implementations 02:02:31 I think GCL (clisp) is in C 02:02:35 but WP doesn't say 02:02:42 GCL != clisp 02:03:00 err, coulda sworn it didded 02:03:39 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.87.61.212] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:03:44 implemented in CL tho: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clisp 02:04:42 EarlGray [~dmytrish@79.124.171.105] has joined #lisp 02:05:27 Jesdisciple: most CLs are partially implemented in CL. 02:06:16 I'm fine with anything that can be compiled with C, I can probably make automake and such work on that thing 02:06:33 Err, *with a C compiler 02:07:24 Out of curiousity, what /sort/ of motorola cpu? 02:07:46 'cause if it's an embedded ppc, there's a chance sbcl would work. 02:07:57 Nah I don't think it's a PPC 02:08:01 Simpler I think 02:08:07 68k? 02:08:15 (ColdFire, or whatever it's called now?) 02:08:43 Possibly related 02:08:43 *nyef* always liked the 68k architecture... except for emulation. Emulating it sucked. 02:08:54 I don't want to break it honestly 02:09:33 Maybe it doesn't even use a Motorola CPU but it has the logo on the outside so I thought it might be 02:11:47 SBCL can handle MIPS, PPC, SPARC (unlikely), Alpha (extremely unlikely), x86, x86-64, and has vestigial HPPA support. 02:12:49 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:12:49 I doubt this is a full blown PPC, it appears to be more than a simple uC but it's just some box for a Probus system 02:12:58 Industrial automation superveillance 02:13:12 Just messing with these for fun 02:13:24 Ah. Have fun with it, then. 02:13:39 *nyef* is rapidly running out of awake-time. 02:14:02 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@79.124.171.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:07 I hear PPCs are actually pretty popular for DSPs. 02:14:43 News to me :o I thought most serious DSP work used VLIW architectures pretty much 02:15:15 Maybe for lower bandwidth stuff, I don't know 02:15:29 for control only. 02:15:37 Ahh 02:18:01 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:18:07 psilord1 [~psilord@adsl-99-153-135-105.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:32 SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:22 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 02:21:08 *rtoym* has never used ppc for any dsp work. 02:21:15 adamvh [~adamvh@99.103.186.186] has joined #lisp 02:23:50 ECL appears to be partially written in C 02:23:55 -!- ferada [~user@g224149064.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:23:59 Although it uses a .d extension for some reason 02:24:23 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 02:24:29 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:25:01 Much like sbcl is partially written in C. 02:25:22 Why is it important? 02:25:39 Probably the important point with ECL is that it compiles to C. 02:28:04 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 02:28:13 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:28:46 Hm 02:29:02 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:29:12 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.127.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:29:16 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:34:20 Are any of the CL native compilers targeting ARM yet? 02:35:56 ccl. 02:36:34 ah cool, it's not on its homepage yet though 02:37:33 troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:05 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:41:07 I have something like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118946 02:41:45 i am trying to compare testvar and testvar1 and list the differences between them 02:42:34 joe6: And what's the problem? 02:42:38 basically the differences in the values of the fields. such as "testvar.a = 1, testvar1.a = 3" 02:43:05 i could do that in boilerplate code and write code to list out each field and value in each field. 02:43:34 What's the question? 02:43:50 Is there a way for me to do this automatically 02:44:03 What does automatically mean? 02:44:25 such as do "mapcar #'compare-field testvar testvar1" 02:44:51 where compare-field is generic, that means it can work on any field such as a or b 02:44:58 drdo: does that make sense? 02:45:54 it should automatically read all the fields in testvar and testvar1 and then compare each field without explicitly writing out each field in the compare function 02:46:02 I see 02:46:31 I'm not sure that's possible 02:46:50 Maybe someone else will know 02:48:22 something like this: http://geekrelief.wordpress.com/2008/10/23/datagenerics-for-the-win/ 02:48:44 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:49:43 Well, it's always possible to write a macro that will do a defstruct and define a method for a generic function that can compare like that 02:50:05 This begs the question of how fields shall be compared. Anyway, you can do that sort of portably with the MOP for clos classes; depending on the implementation, this might also work for structures. 02:51:06 pkhuong: what do you mean? 02:51:07 Well, yes, i also don't see a case where this would be useful 02:52:14 I am implementing a diff of 2 record lists. The record structures are big and I do not want to list out each field and compare 02:52:37 as that would be a lot of boilerplate code 02:53:14 pkhuong: can you please explain? 02:54:07 joe6: What is a record list? 02:54:14 there's no standard CL way to iterate through the slots of a structure 02:54:57 you'd have to dive into low-level specifics as pkhuong is getting at 02:54:59 a list of records, I mean. 02:55:06 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-57-204.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:55:13 (or define the struct type as list) 02:55:30 joe6: So a record is just a struct with a bunch of fields? 02:55:40 drdo: yes. 02:56:04 and I am trying to compare 2 lists of such struct's. 02:56:09 joe6: You could always just write a defrecord macro that writes a defstructs and defines a compare function for you 02:56:10 The MOP can give you a list of slots and readers. 02:56:10 also, equalp should compare the equality of 2 structs 02:56:19 Some MOPs work on structure classes. 02:56:57 Phoodus: comparing the structures to be equal or not does not seem to be the issue. 02:57:11 equalp should compare (with equalp again) slot-by-slot 02:57:21 The issue is iterating through the fields and write out each field and the differences between them. 02:57:27 of course, it can't tell you which slots differ, but given a list of structs can point out which differ 02:57:56 Phoodus: yes, that can be done. I am looking for the fields difference. 02:58:06 The easiest way I've gotten around issues like this is to define my own struct-definition macro that wraps defstruct 02:58:28 then it can generate various functions that are aware of which slots exist, because it has access to the declaration 02:58:41 pkhuong: will check out the MOP and the defrecord macro seems to be a good idea too. 02:58:57 Phoodus: that is a good idea. 02:59:36 pkhuong: if you do not mind me asking, do you know where I can find more details on MOP. 02:59:49 for instance, I have a bindable-defstruct (non-hygienic, though), that for (bindable-defstruct foo ...) it will also generate a (with-foo ) that automatically makes a 'let' structure dereferencing all the slots by name 03:00:02 Phoodus: do you have any code that I can use to guide me, please? 03:00:15 erm, all of mine is internal commercial at the moment 03:00:34 but it doesn't look like you're using all sorts of complex per-slot configuration 03:00:55 so reading the input to your own custom defstruct should be easy 03:01:29 deech [~user@24-107-146-101.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:02:52 (defmacro my-defstruct (name &rest slots) `(progn (defstruct ,name ,@slots) (defun ,(concat-symbol-utility "whatever-" name) ...)) 03:02:57 Hi all, I recently updated and started Slime+Paredit for the first time in months and noticed that leaves unbalanced parens. This isn't the way it used to be, do I need to configure something? 03:03:14 Phoodus: thanks a lot for your help. 03:03:20 deech: I have noticed the same thing. 03:03:52 adamvh: Surprisingly has the right-behavior. 03:04:08 And it isn't Paredit mode because it works fine in the *scratch* buffer 03:04:08 Liera [~user@113.172.54.38] has joined #lisp 03:05:03 -!- Saturnation [~dsouth@72.95.90.127] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:05:27 deech: yeah - it's only in SLIME for me too 03:06:02 slime completion also interacts sort of weirdly with paredit for me 03:06:14 particularly pathname completion 03:06:34 adamvh: You mean where it adds an extra `"` at the end of a completion? 03:06:44 deech: yup 03:07:00 so that there are two at the end of a filename string 03:07:13 I've just been not turning paredit on in my SLIME buffer 03:07:22 adamvh: I remember it did the same thing before. That's not new. 03:07:35 deech: Oh. Never noticed. 03:07:37 Have you tried SLIME with auto-pairs? 03:07:47 No, what's that? 03:08:12 Poor man's Paredit (http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AutoPairs) 03:08:25 I'll have to look into it 03:08:30 I love me some paredit 03:08:36 I use it for everything 03:08:48 Yeah, it's pretty nice. 03:08:50 I just wish it were a little smarter about C/C++ 03:09:10 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:09:25 You mean about square and squiggly braces? I think it is. 03:09:25 But that is probably more than should be expected of one Lisp hacker :p 03:09:36 It's not super smart about the squigglies for me 03:09:52 It also gets weird ideas about indentation when I slurp and barf 03:10:05 I think autopairs has that covered and it claims to interact well with Paredit. 03:10:20 Definitely interested then 03:11:59 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 03:13:34 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:13:38 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-56-20.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:14:02 I just enable autopairs *and* paredit mode in my SLIME window and now pathname completion and sexp deletion works as expected. This makes my day. 03:14:52 -!- bigjust_ [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:17:56 bigjust_ [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has joined #lisp 03:18:33 slime 03:18:37 oopa 03:21:07 -!- deech [~user@24-107-146-101.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has left #lisp 03:21:18 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@99.103.186.186] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 03:21:46 -!- yan_ [~asym@srtd.org] has quit [Quit: oh no] 03:22:26 -!- mephist__ [~mephisto@kd-v135-130-63-240-299.airyork.yorku.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:42 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:26:27 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-5-226.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:26:31 adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:50 ooohhh... are CL function names case insensitive? 03:29:18 I spent a long time trying to understand that, now it makes sense 03:29:46 defun functions are held behind symbols 03:29:51 symbols are generally case sensitive 03:30:02 well, I try to defun Set 03:30:11 however, the reader by default snaps symbols to uppercase in most lisps 03:30:14 and it complains that I'm overwriting standard function set 03:30:38 so if you do (defun |Foo| ...), vs (defun Foo ...), only the latter will be accessable by (foo ...) 03:31:03 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:31:11 if you want to (defun |Set| ..), that won't collide. But is a very bad idea :) 03:31:32 how so? 03:31:40 typos? 03:31:44 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:31:47 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 03:31:58 becuase then you'd have to use |Set| every time you wanted to call it, which is cumbersome and ugly 03:32:12 symbols are generally used in a reader-ignores-original-case way 03:32:16 oh, Set wouldn't work? =( 03:32:20 Jesdisciple: you can shadow 03:32:34 sorry? 03:32:43 clhs shadow 03:32:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_shadow.htm 03:32:45 oh right, I've never used that to my recollection 03:32:46 or try setting readtable-case to :invert 03:33:55 lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-185-244-104.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:52 so that's (shadow ("Set")) ? 03:35:00 remember, in the default case, when you type (defun set (a) ...) the reader is actually reading (CL:DEFUN CL:SET (CL-USER:A) ...) 03:35:19 (or something close to that depending on implementation specifics) 03:35:38 (yeah, I don't encounter that except for the debugger... I'm used to languages caring about the Shift key) 03:35:41 (and double-colons before the A, whoops) 03:37:05 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 03:37:20 had to add ' and it still thinks I'm overwriting... 03:37:51 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:39:48 (setf (readtable-case *readtable*) :invert) 03:39:48 (shadow '("Set")) 03:40:01 still complains 03:40:22 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 03:41:26 guess I'll just prefix my functions with my project name... 03:41:35 Jesdisciple: complain isn't exactly useful. 03:42:04 You could try and describe what you wrote to the repl and what you read back. You might even put that in a paste. 03:42:52 The examples in the CLHS for shadow could also be usefully adapted to your needs. 03:44:02 -!- psilord1 [~psilord@adsl-99-153-135-105.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 03:46:20 well, I undid my prefixing and recompiled 03:46:44 now it finally hushed, so thanks much for the suggestions 03:47:14 (I did read the HyperSpec article, didn't look for examples though) 03:47:52 and you don't need :invert if you shadow (and vice versa). 03:48:10 *Jesdisciple* cautiously removes :invert 03:48:38 odd, it still hated me before I thought, when I only had that 03:49:06 "it hated me" does not say what specifically it reported to you 03:49:19 reading a file in happens before compiling it and even more so for execution. 03:49:49 shadows would go with your defpackage 03:49:53 If you write (setf (readtable-case ...) ...), it will only be executed (and take effected) once the file has been fully read and compiled. 03:49:53 Phoodus: I'm not bothering anymore, problem solved 03:49:59 thanks again 03:50:07 adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:23 I'm just saying to be more specific if you want help 03:50:33 because we have no idea what it's telling you 03:51:01 well, when you asked for specificity the first time I was making my final victorious attempt 03:51:10 otherwise I would have complied 03:51:38 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.87.61.212] has joined #lisp 03:52:05 There's something about computers that attracts retarded people. 03:52:20 re-fixing this when you try this again in a slightly different program state will be a hoot. 03:52:28 oh, if it's working then, I didn't realize that 03:52:57 *Phoodus* looks back, realized he skpped a line or two 03:55:41 and yes, you shoudl cycle your lisp instance to ensure what you wrote loads clean 03:56:59 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 03:57:51 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:09 good time to go eat for a bit then 03:58:15 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:26 -!- Jesdisciple [~user@75.53.39.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:11 gumpa [~max@p5DE8F36B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:38 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:06 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.87.61.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:04:31 -!- gumpa_ [~max@p5DE8FA56.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:04:45 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.87.61.212] has joined #lisp 04:04:58 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:26 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.246] has joined #lisp 04:07:30 -!- mosva [~mosva@unaffiliated/mosva] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:07:49 mosva [~mosva@unaffiliated/mosva] has joined #lisp 04:09:13 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:04 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-129-201.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:50 azaq231 [~derivecto@p4FF686CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:17:08 -!- azaq231 [~derivecto@p4FF686CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 04:17:08 azaq231 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 04:18:39 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:23:22 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.149.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:24:55 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.143.149] has joined #lisp 04:27:43 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-aayyhpsvanlliuxy] has joined #lisp 04:28:37 pnq1 [~nick@AC82E5C2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:29:39 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 04:30:38 has anyone done any pub/sub with cl-redis? 04:32:49 I've used it only for minimal key/value database-y stuff 04:33:29 but then I switched to lredis, which is saner in many ways (: 04:33:46 what are you thinking of doing, tritchey? 04:35:10 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:35:24 I'm working on a website monitoring application, and there were going to be multiple monitors that I was hoping to coordinate using redis 04:35:58 Hmm, anyone been doing anything interesting with linda tuple spaces lately? 04:36:06 the cl-redis subscribe command returns immediately, but doesn't seem to setup any kind of callback machanism. 04:36:59 tritchey: cl-redis is a very very thin layer on top of an outdated version of the command language. 04:37:14 so that's not surprising (: 04:38:35 -!- az [~az@p4FE4EA21.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:38:36 looking through the source I see the pubsub tests are disabled 04:38:47 which is probably not a positive sign 04:39:00 yeah. my suggestion is to go with lredis 04:39:13 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 04:39:15 it's way safer with non-ascii chars, as well 04:39:20 ahh - by death? 04:39:25 yeah 04:39:45 that's makes me all warm and fuzzy 04:40:02 KITTENS. KITTENS ARE NICE. 04:40:22 and he has it all in one source file! 04:40:35 ;; TODO: Publish/Subscribe 04:40:40 haha 04:40:55 figures 04:40:59 yeah, my thinking is, since it's so much better, it won't be as hard to add (: 04:41:39 well, at least it gives me something to work on! 04:41:50 that's the spirit (: 04:42:50 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:43:58 -!- troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:44:31 it does look like cl-redis was updated to the new protocol in december 04:45:54 az [~az@p4FE4FAFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:45 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:47:32 Chris_Jesdiscipl [~Jesdiscip@adsl-75-53-39-195.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:09 Adlai_ [~leif@ool-18bac7df.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:24 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-254-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:10 is there a variable or something that stores the current line number of the function invocation, when the functions are loaded from a file. 04:55:34 i have a list of functions in a file that I plan on loading using (load "file") 04:56:31 i am wondering if there is something that can help me do this: (print "i am at line: ~a of the file~%" lineno) 04:56:59 the file does not have function definitions but more like function invocations. 04:57:27 Sluggo [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:31 hi joe6 04:58:58 adu: hello, you might be mistaking me someone. 04:59:08 for someone, i mean. 04:59:25 no, I've never seen you before, just saying hi 04:59:33 adu: oh, hello 05:00:12 don't take it as recognition, just take it as some kind of SYN/ACK protocol between 2 humans (I'm assuming you're human) 05:01:20 but anyways, I don't know of anything like *current-line-number* at least not in CLHS, so I would then look at your specific implementation 05:01:58 adu: ok, thanks. 05:04:59 adu: i am a lisp newbie. When programming in lisp, how do you recommend structuring the program. 05:05:15 joe6: no idea 05:05:18 Which is the best lisp IDE which works on Windows? 05:06:16 joe6: when it comes to lisp I'm book-smart, I can tell you the difference between logand and boole-and, but not how traditional programs are structured 05:07:45 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@187.112.204.12] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 05:08:33 mosva: I use emacs on Windows, too 05:09:03 SLIME really is the best supported way to interact with lisp 05:09:19 (barring commercial vendors' own IDEs, which I have limited experience with) 05:09:52 however, it's not an IDE in the sense of awareness of your project as a whole 05:10:05 it's still a file editor, a lisp repl, and you have to use ASDF or something like that yourself to manage your project 05:10:30 Thanks a lot Phoodus 05:10:35 ubunturocks [~ubunturoc@c-24-125-178-151.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:48 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.30.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:13:21 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:23 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-98.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:22:18 is there a better way of writing this: (functionx (quote (this is a line that function x will process))) 05:22:29 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-152-12.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 05:22:48 is quote the best way to define a string argument (line) 05:23:12 can do (functionx '(this is a line that function x will process)) but that's not necessarily readable 05:23:18 or, I could use the short form of quote ('). But, just curious of how others d. 05:23:20 note the ' 05:23:37 Chris_Jesdiscipl: yes, noticed that. Thanks. 05:23:54 normally ' (but it's not a string - it's a literal form) 05:25:51 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-aayyhpsvanlliuxy] has left #lisp 05:25:53 Chris_Jesdiscipl: what is meant by a literal form? just a long list? 05:25:56 -!- jomatv6 [~jomat@2001:470:9935::badc:ab1e] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:26:00 parsed to lisp code? 05:26:06 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kjldypzobphgzggp] has joined #lisp 05:26:25 i want to read this in as a line and am planning to do the parsing in functionx 05:26:32 jomatv6 [~jomat@2001:470:9935::badc:ab1e] has joined #lisp 05:27:07 i do not intend to use read in the lisp read sense. just get the line in as an argument. 05:27:18 well, (quote) just prevents Lisp from doing whatever it would 05:27:31 yes, that is what I want. Thanks. 05:27:36 so 'foo becomes a string, while '(foo) is a list 05:28:09 Chris_Jesdiscipl: you might want to test things before spouting lies. 05:28:11 Chris_Jesdiscipl: gotcha. interesting. thanks. 05:28:31 joe6: disregard everything Chris_Jesdiscipl has said. 05:28:33 pkhuong: this is something that I have tested... 05:28:37 in particular, (stringp 'foo) => NIL. 05:28:49 joe6: it's misleading when it's not outright wrong. 05:29:06 joe6: instead, I recommend an introductory text on Lisp. What's your background? 05:29:26 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:30:20 used to program in C,perl, databases and haskell. want to learn to program in lisp. I have been meaning to do it for so long and I am tired of putting it off. 05:30:39 so, biting the bullet and have started to do it. 05:30:48 joe6: I recommend Practical Common Lisp. 05:30:51 -!- cheez [~Adium@69-165-154-135.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:30:53 (so will most of the channel) 05:31:20 joe6: you can read it online at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ or support the author with a purchase. 05:31:37 I read the introductory text's but after reading a few chapters, I am just not getting the syntax. So, I figure that I start writing a program instead. 05:32:14 Ralith: I have it open and I read it sometime ago and it is my first point of reference for any question. 05:32:41 But, CL seems to be a pretty big language and the introductory text's do not seem to be doing justice. 05:32:59 if you want to see justice done to the entire language, open up the CLHS 05:33:02 not very good to learn from, though 05:33:31 joe6: yeah, cl is big. pcl covers a lot of it, though 05:33:35 yes, I have that open too. But, it is hard to traverse and yes, it does not seem to be very good to learn from. 05:33:55 i have read atleast 2-3 texts on lisp 05:34:18 and I understand the concepts and listened to sicp lectures, but I need to just do it and get the hang of it. 05:34:32 Sorry, to be trolling your irc. I am not sure if you mind my questions? 05:35:18 and there is the other thing where I am not sure if the syntax is in scheme or CL or is a part of some other lisp. 05:35:49 is it ok to ask introductory questions on this irc? 05:36:09 definitely 05:36:20 antifuchs: ok, thanks. 05:36:27 as long as you paste longer sections of code in paste.lisp.org (-: 05:36:41 yes, that makes sense. 05:37:34 joe6: I'm not sure if you do understand the concepts, as quote has nothing to do with strings at all. 05:41:38 Ralith: ok, thanks. will check up on it. 05:42:41 gentle intro do symbolic computing may be of interest, though I haven't read it myself 05:47:36 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:47:39 Ralith: just checking up pcl on the chapter on strings 05:47:50 evening folks 05:49:35 hi beslyrus 05:49:50 beslyrus: I saw your message about beirc & unicode 05:50:09 beslyrus: I'm pretty sure the irc protocol part of beirc should handle non-ascii chars just fine 05:50:25 (I believe I wrote the utf-8 & latin1 fallback logic myself back then) 05:50:48 but you're getting the error in the GUI thread, which would point to mcclim or something as the culprit 05:51:46 -!- Chris_Jesdiscipl [~Jesdiscip@adsl-75-53-39-195.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:55:15 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 05:58:45 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.87.61.212] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 06:02:27 drafael [~tapio@118-92-27-10.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:06:48 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:07:00 -!- Adlai_ [~leif@ool-18bac7df.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:59 bytecat_ [~catless@HS2-29-7.xG.SPb.SkyLink.RU] has joined #lisp 06:08:29 -!- bytecat_ [~catless@HS2-29-7.xG.SPb.SkyLink.RU] has left #lisp 06:13:04 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 06:13:06 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:13:39 antifuchs: OK, I can believe that. 06:13:53 beslyrus: are you using any advanced font hackery? 06:14:00 like mcclim-freetype or -truetype? 06:14:38 I am now, which fixes the problem 06:14:42 mcclim-truetype 06:14:50 hah 06:15:01 I am suspecting the default X font rendering now 06:15:13 it may not cope with unicode chars as well as free/truetype 06:15:34 without it, I think the problem lies in medium.lisp/translate 06:15:38 that is to say, I am pretty sure it doesn't cope with them at all 06:15:53 drafael1 [~tapio@118-92-134-224.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:16:14 max-char-index should proably be the minimum of what it is now and what will fit in the destination array 06:16:42 as it is, it tries to stuff a value > 255 in an 8-bit array 06:17:40 oh, and on another note, I never figured how to properly get beirc to properly draw in a light-on-dark theme. that's kind of a deal-breaker for everyday use, if you ask me... 06:17:42 -!- drafael [~tapio@118-92-27-10.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:18:04 not for me (-; 06:18:14 but hmmm, no idea either. 06:18:33 you may have to play with the pane definitions, then go to work wrapping with-ink around some relevant places 06:21:05 -!- drafael1 [~tapio@118-92-134-224.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:25:46 SidH_ [~Sid_H@192.163.20.231] has joined #lisp 06:27:35 -!- SidH_ [~Sid_H@192.163.20.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27:56 SidH_ [~Sid_H@192.163.20.231] has joined #lisp 06:29:15 -!- SidH_ [~Sid_H@192.163.20.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:38 SidH_ [~Sid_H@192.163.20.231] has joined #lisp 06:29:39 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-182-71.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:32:37 tcr1 [~tcr@80-218-246-66.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:32:39 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-195.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:35:41 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:39:57 -!- SidH_ [~Sid_H@192.163.20.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:40:33 SidH_ [~Sid_H@192.163.20.231] has joined #lisp 06:42:28 -!- SidH_ [~Sid_H@192.163.20.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:42:52 SidH_ [~Sid_H@192.163.20.231] has joined #lisp 06:43:52 mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-67-180-32-216.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:42 -!- SidH_ [~Sid_H@192.163.20.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45:32