00:00:42 so '(1 2 3) is '(1.(2.(3.nil))) 00:00:54 pattern: the difference is in a list, the cdr of each cons all point to another cons...that's how one builds the list...the last cons has a cdr pointing to nil 00:00:54 err rather with spaces yes... 00:00:56 pattern: a cons is just an object that can reference a pair of other objects. the first of the pair is called the car, and the second is called the cdr. in Lisp there is a convention to represent a list as either the atom nil (we call it the empty list) or as a cons whose cdr is a list (the tail) and car is any object (head). 00:02:38 Doesn't everyone implement linked lists like this in every language under the sun? 00:02:47 drdo: certainly not 00:03:03 adeht: Such as? 00:03:54 my moms lisp 00:03:59 drdo: in C, for example, it is typical to find a "next" pointer embedded in some application-specific structure.. lame, but typical 00:04:20 adeht: I've implemented linked lists in C a lot of times 00:04:30 I certainly implemented exactly like this 00:04:35 glib does too 00:04:44 like what? 00:04:46 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 00:04:49 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:50 drdo: it the "next' pointer may be the first element...often is, partly for performance when navigating the list 00:04:55 like in lisp 00:04:59 tcr1 [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:16 hargettp_: what? 00:05:44 ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@host81-155-53-140.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:08 drdo: I have often seen C structs with the next pointer as the 1st member 00:06:25 What does that mean? 00:06:57 drdo: if you have implemented anything in C, then you should know what "member" and "structs" are 00:07:10 -!- ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@host81-155-53-140.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 00:07:12 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@host81-155-53-140.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:07:26 drdo: and the point is that that is NOT the same as Lisp...cdr is the next pointer, and it is NOT first 00:07:50 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.61.203.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:07:57 hargettp_: If you are saying what i think you are saying, that doesn't make any sense 00:07:57 but this seems pointless 00:08:07 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:08:15 then perhaps you don't....sorry 00:08:42 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:08:44 hargettp: that's not the point either.. the point is that in C the list structure is usually embedded into some specific kind of object, whereas in Lisp the list structure is usually outside of any specific object 00:08:49 I understood that you are claiming that laying out the next pointer in memory before the value pointer somehow matters semantically 00:09:35 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-123-173.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:24 drdo: the typical C approach in Lisp would be something like (defstruct my-symbol name ... next) 00:10:42 drdo: nope...just that your assertion "everyone implement linked lists like this in every language" is not correct...that's it 00:10:59 drdo: and you'll have some "head" symbol.. you will then traverse through the list using (my-symbol-next object) 00:11:40 adeht: That's the retarded C approach 00:12:04 hargettp_: I haven't seen that method for quite some time though. The main reason being that it breaks modularity. An object has no business knowing that it is part of some collection. 00:12:06 drdo: no, sometimes it actually makes sense.. but the tradeoffs are usually not considered 00:12:54 *Xach* most recently saw that technique in nagios, which wove the linked-list structure into many different objects 00:13:10 adeht: I don't see how that makes sense 00:13:12 drdo: e.g., using conses you need to allocate both the object and the cons 00:13:31 ...including the queue of checks to be run, which was supposed to be a priority queue, but was actually a linked list... 00:13:36 drdo: whereas in the "built-in structure" approach, you just need to allocate the object 00:13:36 adeht: You can do that same thing you were telling me, but abstract it 00:14:03 You just need to know the size when you allocate a new one (CONS) 00:14:04 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:14:11 and you just need to cast when accessing 00:14:44 drdo: that is no cons then 00:14:58 ? 00:15:09 beach: agreed. most fo the time in C++ I have only seen "next pointers" used in structures used to build up abstract List data types--the objects in the collection are referenced from those structures, not derived from them, so there is no mixing of concepts 00:15:15 beach: if that made any sense whatsoever 00:15:23 drdo: a cons can hold any object in its car (ignoring the issue of cdr for now) 00:15:48 adeht: I'm the saying it's a cons, i was drawing the analogy between that and the CONS function 00:15:55 drdo: if you "need to know the size", you're limiting yourself to objects with certain sizes 00:16:09 Of course you are, you have to if you want that 00:16:25 The alternative is reimplementing all linked list operations for each type of linked list you want 00:16:31 Which is just plain dumb 00:16:34 *thmzlt* feels like he is the only one trying to learn Lisp from a web development background 00:16:48 have I mentioned how much I like working with cl-vectors? It's really really good stuff. 00:16:53 hargettp_: So that's the same thing a Lisp again, then. A list of cons cells. 00:17:05 beach: indeed 00:17:16 *beach* agrees with antifuchs 00:17:22 drdo: I'm not sure I get what you're saying.. except that "plain dumb" is a bit crude and ignores tradeoffs for each approach 00:17:33 adeht: You are not understanding 00:17:36 antifuchs: what do you like? :) 00:17:37 thmzlt: I'm sure there are several people around that come from that background 00:17:55 adeht: I've accepted your trade-off 00:18:21 I understand that it's different having a cons cell with an object pointer and embedding the object in the structure 00:18:32 hargettp_: I just started working with it again, and it just has a very nice API. My personal "<3" moment right now was that I was extending a path, and could specify the way that the path extension should look 00:18:43 I'm just saying that you can abstract things away in both approaches 00:18:54 antifuchs: cool :) 00:18:56 in my case, that was a straight line, but it could be an arc, or any other transformation. that's really very neat. 00:19:01 (and easy to use) 00:19:55 drdo: sure 00:19:57 with only a tiny bit of planning, you can make an API like vecto's, with very little effort. 00:20:04 antifuchs: I have dabbled with Xach's Vecto, but not directly gone after the underlying cl-vectors...cool stuff 00:20:07 drdo: to some level 00:21:35 antifuchs, coming from the ruby community i see how spoiled i am :) 00:21:45 adeht: It will be ugly, gotta get around C's limitations 00:21:53 But the alternative is way worse 00:22:10 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:54 drdo: so do you see why I said that not everyone implements a singly-linked structure like this (i.e. using conses)? 00:23:11 unicode [~user@95.214.56.1] has joined #lisp 00:23:30 adeht: Yes, i understand what you mean 00:23:37 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.56.1] has quit [Client Quit] 00:23:44 thmzlt: haha 00:23:58 unicode [~user@95.214.56.1] has joined #lisp 00:24:00 thmzlt: when I was doing web dev with ruby, I saw how spoiled I was (-: 00:24:13 antifuchs: what do you do when you want to draw something? 00:24:46 Xach: I.. um... copy your pixel/alpha compositing routines (-: 00:24:49 proc.call is all i have to say about ruby ;) 00:24:58 drdo: this reminds me of a nice Naggum post btw 00:25:04 drdo: that is, you don't have very much to say about it? that's good. 00:25:13 antifuchs: heh. what's it drawing to? 00:25:19 Xach: ah, that! png (-: 00:25:28 adeht: What post? 00:25:35 Xach: the interesting part is the user-facing api: it's clim (: 00:25:59 thmzlt: I tried to port some of the nicer ideas over from ruby though. there's a cucumber adapter for cl (-: 00:26:18 thmzlt: are you using quicklisp? It's /very/ similar to ruby gems in terms of convenience 00:29:32 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-139-86.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:30:41 drdo: the ones in this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/4ff4e8cead8fe772 00:30:45 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:31:13 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 00:32:03 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:13 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 00:32:47 Adlai_ [~leif@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:51 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has quit [Quit: superflit] 00:37:47 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-35-145-251.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:37:57 antifuchs, quicklisp is on my todo list 00:38:16 antifuchs, have you done any web dev in CL? 00:38:17 thmzlt: IMHO, this should be item #1 (after learning lisp basics) (-: 00:38:25 adeht: Hmm, why exactly does Naggum claim that it is hard to implement? 00:38:50 thmzlt: yes! I'm using hunchentoot, st-json, html-template and jquery mostly. 00:38:53 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.61.203.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 00:39:08 thmzlt: Xach has done way more interesting web dev projects than I have, though 00:39:21 (he runs wigflip.com, and is the creator of quicklisp) (: 00:39:25 drdo: historically many people got it wrong, and many still get it wrong today 00:39:35 adeht: In what sense? 00:41:00 drdo: e.g., embedding the structure in particular objects, or not having support for heterogeneous lists 00:41:57 That doesn't mean it's hard to implement 00:42:17 antifuchs, I was looking for something like Ruby Rack in CL 00:42:26 thmzlt: hunchentoot is pretty close to that 00:42:31 nice 00:42:43 it comes with more convenience things (which rack purposely excludes) 00:42:52 drdo: also, there are implementation issues of the past and present, e.g., cdr-coding, special arenas for gc.. 00:42:56 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:43:09 but it's pretty much a pure http implementation and adapter for web apps. 00:43:24 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:37 antifuchs, have you seen the mongrel2 adapter for CL? 00:43:42 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.56.1] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:43:44 thmzlt: I haven't yet 00:43:46 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 00:44:05 (but I was never a big fan of mongrel, so have resolved to disregard mongrel2 for a while) (: 00:44:26 me neither, but mongrel2 is interesting 00:44:49 Are there some docs on running Hunchentoot behind Apache when both of them have a site to serve? 00:44:51 could well be - I'll watch it. thanks for the pointer (: 00:45:09 hugod [~hugod@76.66.191.181] has joined #lisp 00:45:39 >.< jfgi 00:46:03 btw, stumpwm is awesome :) 00:46:41 cafesofie [~cafesofie@dhcp-140-254-204-17.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 00:46:52 but awesome is not stumpwm 00:47:09 talk like Yoda I do 00:47:13 o 00:47:56 well, i've re-implemented LAST (except for the &optional argument), and it seems to work, even with '(1 2 . 3) --> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/320797/ 00:48:07 but i'm still having problems with implementing a function that returns the last two elements of a list.. http://paste.pocoo.org/show/320794/ 00:48:19 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 00:48:36 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:48:45 (atom (cddr '(b c d))) evaluates to nil, and (atom (cddr '(c d))) evaluates to T 00:48:53 so i don't see why my solution shouldn't work.. 00:49:29 (my-but-last '(a b c d)) should return (c d) but instead it returns (d) 00:50:17 Again, don't call that but-last, butlast is not that 00:50:41 drdo: he also mentions implementation details of the empty list that are easy to miss 00:50:47 i was just using the name the 99 lisp problems page used 00:51:48 but i'll rename it to last-two-elements, if that will make you happy 00:52:15 drdo: that make, e.g., (car-or-cdr nil) ==> nil quite efficient 00:53:06 weird.. now that i've renamed it it works.. :P 00:53:18 drdo, you're a genius! 00:53:46 It's magic! 00:54:08 You are actually calling my-last in my-but-last 00:54:09 -!- hargettp_ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp_] 00:54:31 i am? 00:54:41 how does that work? the dashes have special meaning in lisp? 00:55:07 oh, wait 00:55:09 i see it 00:55:10 doh! 00:55:27 no wonder.. 00:56:18 i'd just copied and modified my-last, and i guess i overlooked that i needed to change my-last to my-but-last 00:57:03 well, at least i now know i'm not totally insane.. just careless 00:57:10 thanks for bearing with my newbishness.. 00:57:52 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-254-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:20 can somebody tell me the difference between asdf and quicklisp? 01:01:14 -!- silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-87-89-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:02:22 thmzlt: asdf is make, quicklisp is a apt-get 01:02:25 thmzlt: one is a system definition facility and the other is a system installing facility 01:02:39 :) 01:03:55 ah, because i installed stumpwm dependencies using asdf 01:04:08 so i thought it was something like an installing facility 01:04:14 asdf-install is not asdf 01:04:16 naryl: I think quicklisp is more of a pacman :P 01:04:29 naryl, aah is ee 01:04:31 *i see 01:05:24 valium97582: No, it's more of portage. It gets the sources and compiles them on the spot. 01:05:46 well, pacman has ABS 01:06:54 thmzlt: It's more like Arch has ABS, but not pacman. 01:07:47 you use pacman only to install the package, not build it. 01:08:28 hmm... quicklisp doesn't build them either. Ok, you win :) 01:08:38 Need some help with a loop http://pastebin.com/DfkiqrtX 01:08:47 so you use asdf and quicklisp together 01:09:34 -!- devinus [~devinus@ps23102.dreamhost.com] has left #lisp 01:09:59 aidalgol: I guess you want "finally (return blah)" 01:10:02 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AA24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:10:16 aidalgol: but that code is quite ugly 01:10:55 aidalgol: http://pastebin.com/r1uSAKwL 01:11:33 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:12:37 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-90-33.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:17:31 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-156-201.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:17:43 aidalgol: http://sprunge.us/iJhX?cl 01:17:44 very [~very@dslb-084-060-096-146.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:00 -!- thmzlt [~thomaz@24-217-48-63.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:18:29 thmzlt [~thomaz@24-217-48-63.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:19:25 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:21 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20:43 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 01:26:05 adeht: I apologise for the ugliness of my code. I'm usually pretty good with other languages, but I'm still a bit lost when it comes to lisp. 01:27:29 aidalgol: the easiest thing to fix: don't use underscore when naming variables, use a dash.. also you may want to learn about shiftf, and look at naryl's code 01:27:29 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:36 adeht: I hate you for linking that, i'm still reading the thread when i should be studying stuff about the residue theorem and similar not very interesting to me stuff :S 01:27:42 ferada [~user@g230249209.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:27:44 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 01:28:18 ;) 01:29:19 *aidalgol* wonders how he missed `then' when looking through the loop documentation. 01:29:36 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:30:04 naryl: Where did this s-exp come from? (= (1+ (truncate (log fib_n 10))) 1000) 01:31:03 aidalgol: (log x 10) gives you *almost* the number of digits in x 01:31:23 drop the fraction and add 1 to get it correctly 01:32:16 I did not know that. Is there anything about that on Wikipedia (or elsewhere)? I wouldn't know what to search for. 01:32:28 ... this is kind of expressions better written using Haskell syntax. 01:32:35 *naryl* runs away 01:34:11 aidalgol: 10 ^ x is a number with x zeros. 01:34:58 use the opposite operation and you get the number of zeros + some fraction if it's not a power of ten. 01:36:11 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 01:36:23 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:36:26 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:37:10 -!- very [~very@dslb-084-060-096-146.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:37:22 How do I return multiple values (from a loop)? 01:37:41 very [~very@dslb-084-060-096-146.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:07 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 01:38:09 return (list a b c) or (values a b c) 01:38:29 or store some of them in an external to the loop variable 01:39:13 How is values different from list? 01:40:26 aidalgol: http://www.psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/chapter03-09.html 01:40:55 LIST just creates a list 01:46:50 aidalgol: You maybe interested in this: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/loop-for-black-belts.html 01:46:56 Or even the whole book 01:49:57 _danb_ [~yaaic@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:54:28 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:31 empt [~empt@112.2.217.126] has joined #lisp 02:02:53 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:03:47 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:09:18 -!- Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-70-176.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 02:11:42 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:11:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:33 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@189-47-113-196.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:14:25 seangrove [~user@68-26-121-231.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:40 valium97582 [~daniel@189-47-113-196.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:15:30 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:17:13 -!- empt [~empt@112.2.217.126] has left #lisp 02:21:24 This never terminates, and I'm just making my code a complete mess trying to debug it: http://sprunge.us/SGbW 02:22:32 aidalgol: with is done only once, before the loop starts. You cannot use for variables in with expressions. 02:22:43 But you can use FOR instead. 02:23:06 (loop for v ... for h = (f v) ...) 02:23:28 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:23:40 pjb: >_< 02:23:48 Thanks. I forgot about that. 02:25:48 Still infinite: http://sprunge.us/TfEN 02:26:12 You never modify the sum in the outer loop. 02:26:16 for introduces local variables. 02:26:21 (as with does). 02:27:12 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:27:43 It's also infinite with (setq sum (+ a b c)) in place of for sum = (+ a b c). 02:27:53 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.61.203.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 02:28:58 this would be a program-error. You'd need to write: do (setq sum (+ a b c)) in place of for sum = (+ a b c) 02:29:27 But the problem is your inner loop, this is the one that is infinite. 02:29:35 You don't specify any stop condition. 02:29:54 Oh... right... 02:31:20 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@dhcp-140-254-204-17.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:30 aidalgol: LOOP with thereis can only return t or nil and it doesn't pecify a stop condition. And you're ignoring inner loop's return value. 02:31:32 Thanks, pjb! Now I need to figure out what's wrong with my algorithm. 02:31:43 That's all in Loop for Black Belts. 02:32:01 naryl: How's this look? http://sprunge.us/iHKU 02:32:34 "for sum = (+ a b c)" should probably be "do (setf sum (+ a b c))" 02:33:11 Why not setq? 02:33:23 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:33:29 setf does everything setq do. 02:33:36 What's the point of thereis? 02:33:41 So you can free one neuron by forgetting setq. 02:34:07 Here, it returns NIL, which means there's no sum = 1000 before it's bigger than 1000. 02:34:53 naryl: I'm trying to solve this, so I am first checking that my program even finds a solution. http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=9 02:36:10 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:24 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:37:07 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-45-198.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:38:46 aidalgol: You'll probably need three nested loops for each variable. Name the outer one, don't touch the middle one, check all conditions in the inner one and use (return-from outer (* a b c)) when you found the solution. 02:39:16 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/loop-for-black-belts.html 02:39:20 Search NAMED 02:39:25 aidalgol: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118642 02:39:47 pjb: You spoiled him the fun :D 02:40:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:41:47 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:42:24 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:42:45 I don't need *three* nested loops, because the only parameters are u and v. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formulas_for_generating_Pythagorean_triples#IV. 02:42:59 "Given the integers u and v[...]" 02:43:43 Oh, I didn't notice that a and add "until (> b c)" 02:44:27 and you can make a go to 499 instead of 1000. 02:44:28 yes. 02:44:46 err, 331. 02:44:59 or 332. 02:46:02 Now I'm *reaaaly* confused. 02:46:02 after that the inner loop becomes noop 02:46:51 a a<1000/3 02:47:06 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 02:47:22 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 02:49:05 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118642#1 02:51:55 -!- _danb_ [~yaaic@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:53:50 -!- skonek [~artur@178.73.63.81] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:55:01 hargettp_ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:53 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:05 -!- seangrove [~user@68-26-121-231.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:03:18 -!- hargettp_ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp_] 03:05:31 cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-3.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 03:08:04 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 03:20:30 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 03:21:27 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 03:21:53 -!- ferada [~user@g230249209.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:24:15 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 03:30:13 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:13 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-211-180.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:52:42 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 03:57:19 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night] 03:57:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:59:23 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.178.69] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 04:05:08 pnq [~nick@172.162.38.20] has joined #lisp 04:05:34 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.77.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:00 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.81.107] has joined #lisp 04:09:57 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 04:14:42 evening #lisp 04:18:41 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:22:36 quek [~quek@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:08 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:26:48 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:28:32 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:53 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:29:51 phao [~phao@189.107.142.23] has joined #lisp 04:29:59 Hi 04:30:11 there is a lisp wiki for this channel, right? 04:30:50 Not sure if it is this channel's, but it's a lisp wiki with white/blue bg colors 04:30:53 phao: are you thinking of cliki.net? 04:31:10 let me see 04:31:14 yeah 04:31:15 that's the one 04:31:16 thx. 04:31:27 phao: if so, it arguably has even better colors if you use my slicker-cliki userscript :) 04:31:54 you have a script that styles that wiki? 04:32:09 phao: http://abhishek.geek.nz/code/slicker-cliki/ 04:33:31 this one is cool http://abhishek.geek.nz/img/slicker-cliki-3.png 04:33:35 oh interesting. 04:33:57 phao there is also a lisp games wiki at lispgames.org 04:34:03 good evening arbscht. 04:34:13 hi dto 04:34:23 i'm taking it easy today because of my fall on the ice 04:34:29 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has left #lisp 04:34:29 how are you? 04:34:46 oh, I hope the damage isn't too bad 04:35:23 I just got back from lunch, it's a hot summer day. going to work on the podcast in a minute 04:35:25 ive been on pain meds all day and will probably end up calling the doctor in the morning. 04:35:28 i'm all right tho. 04:35:41 so, are wetas a commonplace sight? 04:35:50 i read an article about them with many horrifying pictures 04:36:51 sure, but not as common as, say, bees 04:36:56 oh i see. 04:37:05 what about stick insects? 04:37:31 i read also that there are nasty wetas who scratch people, and quiet wetas who don't bother people 04:37:52 they're as common as... uh, recursive functions in CL code? ;) 04:37:57 hmm :) 04:38:02 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.142.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:39:57 arbscht: i'm going to type up a brief postmortem for my work and at least describe what I did finish and where i would like to go next. 04:40:26 dto: on the lg wiki or your blog (or both)? 04:40:47 oh. i'm not sure. 04:41:01 I'll keep an eye on both anyway 04:41:10 i could put it on my website with a more or less permanent url 04:41:20 like one or two of my other postmortems 04:41:26 ok 04:46:47 -!- az [~az@p4FE4F54D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:47:28 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: alexsuraci] 04:50:43 -!- jomatv6 [~jomat@2001:470:9935::badc:ab1e] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:51:14 -!- tmh [6c491a1c@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:54:19 az [~az@p4FE4FD8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:18 jomatv6 [~jomat@2001:470:9935::badc:ab1e] has joined #lisp 04:59:30 -!- quek [~quek@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 05:00:24 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:03:07 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:17 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-3.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:10:17 arbscht: blogged. 05:10:24 itegebo [~quassel@c-76-102-2-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:29 kind of terse but plenty of links :) 05:10:41 i actually accomplished much more than i thought before typing that. 05:14:01 sabalaba [~sabalaba@32.168.158.250] has joined #lisp 05:16:46 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.81.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:10 lemoinem [~swoog@151-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:16 -!- itegebo [~quassel@c-76-102-2-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:31 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/lather-rinse-repeat-a-tour-of-the-repl.html how do i compile common lisp in emacs? this says C-c C-c, but emacs tells me that's undefined 05:19:08 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:09 i remember this working before i reinstalled my os. also my googling is proving unhelpful 05:21:13 ozzloy: with slime. 05:21:30 http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/ 05:21:37 i did M-x slime 05:21:40 it's open 05:21:56 The buffer must be in slime-mode. 05:22:02 ah 05:22:20 how do i put the buffer into slime-mode? 05:22:38 (push 'slime-mode lisp-mode-hook) 05:23:26 daniel_ [~daniel@p50829825.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:15 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B327FDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:26:20 oh wow, i thought this was #emacs 05:27:06 Obviously, you need (require 'cl). 05:30:29 pjb, thanks for the help 05:31:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:31:44 pjb, do i put that in my ~/.emacs? i tried that, still undefined 05:32:12 also when i do M-x slime, it shows what looks like error messages for half a second before showing the prompt 05:32:42 Messages are kept in *Messages* 05:36:47 hmm... that doesn't say anything about errors, maybe i'm just seeing it incorrectly 05:38:29 http://paste.lisp.org/+2JJU does that seem ok? 05:39:03 Yes. 05:40:17 -!- gz [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 05:41:07 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:41:28 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:43:21 oh M-x lisp-mode did it! 05:44:44 pjb, thanks! 05:45:54 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:02 mo [~oguma@61.245.44.233.er.eaccess.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:47:25 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@32.168.158.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:48:09 anybody here? 05:48:15 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:48:50 Please do not ask if anyone uses, knows, is good with, can help you with . Instead, ask your real question and someone will answer if they can help. 05:49:11 mo: to know if anybody is here, you can type the /who command. 05:49:26 sorry, thanx 05:50:14 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:51:04 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 05:53:02 you all should have this in your ~/.xmodmap : https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/dot-files/src/8cf656c6bacc/dot-xmodmap-TheAmbiguousCase 05:53:08 pjb, apparently i just needed a .lisp file ending instead of .cl 05:53:32 Yes, it's the standard extension. 05:54:19 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:39 well i figured they'd both be acceptable. nopes! 05:58:57 Do any of you have () not mapped to shift+9/0 ? 05:58:57 -!- mo [~oguma@61.245.44.233.er.eaccess.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:20 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:04:34 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-254-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:11:12 Quadrescence, me when i use dvorak 06:11:37 but i switch to qwerty when using vi or emacs 06:15:34 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:16:37 kbdvdr [~co1n@210-89-227-75.ap-w02.canvas.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:20:01 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:20:22 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@CPE00163625fbf5-CM00407b85ff2a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:21:50 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:23:03 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:09 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.87.142] has joined #lisp 06:27:53 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:34:19 splittist [~IceChat77@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:34:26 morning 06:44:13 Quadrescence: I'd remap it to [] if I knew how 06:47:02 cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-3.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 06:52:28 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 06:53:27 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55:09 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 06:57:42 quek [~quek@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:08 Quadrescence: i use Dvorak and i've maped () to be where 'w' and 'e' would be in qwerty, ',' and '.' are were () used to be. i have scripts to toggle this setting on and off. 07:08:45 Ralith: xmodmap if you're on linux 07:09:38 pavelludiq: that's kind of like saying "regedit if you're on windows" 07:09:50 yes, that is the right tool, but fuck if I know what to do with it. 07:11:09 Ralith: took me a while to figure it out myself. But its a useful tool to know. 07:11:48 do you have an example handy? 07:14:15 Ralith: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118652 this is what i use(and described above) 07:14:49 Ralith: get xkeycaps 07:14:53 Ralith: i put it in a file, and have a script to feed it to xmodmap 07:15:05 it's a GUI for making an xmodmap file 07:16:09 Quadrescence: sounds good, thanks 07:26:35 -!- quek [~quek@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:14 -!- kbdvdr [~co1n@210-89-227-75.ap-w02.canvas.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:31:13 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-3.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:52 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:20 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.87.142] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 07:36:43 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-214-93.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 07:38:11 cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-3.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 07:39:59 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.217.231] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:43:43 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-3.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:46:18 -!- sm` [s@77.29.16.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:47:57 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:48:29 -!- vandemar [nonserviam@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:48:35 vandemar [rings@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 07:49:17 -!- Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:49:46 -!- egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:49:47 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 07:49:51 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 07:50:03 -!- xristos is now known as Guest31950 07:50:10 Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #lisp 07:50:42 sm` [s@77.29.101.114] has joined #lisp 07:51:04 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:52 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:52:58 sacho [~sacho@95-42-103-162.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 07:53:51 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 07:54:37 -!- az [~az@p4FE4FD8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 07:55:18 -!- splittist [~IceChat77@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: for reboot...] 07:56:10 az [~az@p4FE4FD8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:17 -!- pnq [~nick@172.162.38.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:03:25 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-47.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:10:59 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 08:10:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 08:10:59 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:12:59 carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.187] has joined #lisp 08:16:48 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:25:10 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 08:27:58 mascotte [p.scott@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-23-249.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:28:20 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:04 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-178-206-31.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:31:10 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-178-206-31.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:10 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:39:04 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:39:15 tcr1 [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:40:05 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:40:51 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:41:29 -!- _ism [~frinnn@i59F60855.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:43:05 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-237.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:45:20 tcr1 [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:45:51 biTT [~frinnn@i59F635D1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:46:47 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756eb1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:04 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-75-166.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:52:45 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-237.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 08:53:11 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 08:53:29 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-43-243.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:53:32 Hey guys! 08:53:52 hi 08:56:40 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.157.98] has joined #lisp 08:59:05 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:12:32 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:03 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:16:56 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:56 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:22:25 Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:32:32 ASau [~user@89-178-174-41.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:33:54 bencc [~user@bzq-84-111-72-192.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:50 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-135-224.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:39:31 Sluggo [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:57 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-237.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:37 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-166-228.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:46:43 WonTu [~WonTu@p57B555ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:57 -!- WonTu [~WonTu@p57B555ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 09:47:52 xraycat [~Miranda@brln-4db85728.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:03 Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 09:50:40 -!- billitch [~billitch@host-78-129-3-155.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:55:25 (defun boolify (x) (if x t nil)) 09:55:53 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-58-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:56:07 That sums up my greatest lisp achievement. 09:56:32 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-58-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:59:31 (not (not x)) would be more idiomatic 09:59:32 ...why you'd need it? 09:59:55 (and x t) 10:00:21 p_l|backup: prevent a predicate from leaking, perhaps. 10:03:05 _danb_ [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:06:08 -!- Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Bye] 10:06:28 Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 10:06:37 Woops 10:07:06 p_l|backup: accept the mystery 10:07:20 H4ns`` [~user@pD4B9EE9F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:54 -!- H4ns` [~user@pD4B9E4DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:14:05 tfb [~tfb@94.197.77.238.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:15:35 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 10:19:45 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:22:24 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-47.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:22:47 -!- Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Bye] 10:38:29 Later folks 10:38:33 -!- elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has left #lisp 10:38:39 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 10:42:23 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.187] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 10:44:01 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 10:49:19 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h88-206-143-104.vokby.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 10:51:01 ifaria [~user@2001:250:4001:143:222:68ff:fe76:88e4] has joined #lisp 10:51:02 -!- davazp [~user@3.Red-83-46-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:53:50 splittist [~IceChat77@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 10:54:02 re 10:57:49 hey splittist 10:58:40 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.61.203.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 11:05:27 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.61.203.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 11:05:53 Working with SICL, I was trying to figure out how to do an in-place merge sort (which is stable) of an array. It turns out to be a difficult problem (at least to make it fast and sufficiently simple) and an area in which several papers have been published. I like it when that happens; discovering a research topic as a result of wanting to improve some simple thing, like stable-sort in this case. 11:09:12 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-103-162.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:10:01 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.61.203.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 11:11:48 sacho [~sacho@90.154.201.105] has joined #lisp 11:21:36 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 11:22:05 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D1FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:51 -!- vandemar [rings@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:27:47 vandemar [cohen@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 11:31:12 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:21 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.157.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:34:49 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:39:53 drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:41:06 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:41:34 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 11:42:14 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:43:05 hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:46:03 beach: cool 11:49:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:51:08 hargettp__ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:05 -!- hargettp__ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:52:16 hargettp__ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:43 -!- hargettp__ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:52:51 hargettp__ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:48 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.74.161] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:54:02 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:54:28 beach: not wanting to seem like a one-trick pony, but have you read Let Over Lambda's SORTF chapter? 11:59:13 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:06:33 -!- hargettp__ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp__] 12:10:22 hargettp_ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:02 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 12:14:13 -!- hargettp_ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:21:06 EarlGray [~dmytrish@91.145.221.94] has joined #lisp 12:27:07 -!- qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:27:29 kbdvdr [~co1n@210-89-227-75.ap-w02.canvas.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:27:52 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 12:28:39 qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has joined #lisp 12:29:33 hargettp_ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:47 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756eb1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:05 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:32:14 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-90-33.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:36:43 -!- hargettp_ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp_] 12:36:54 prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has joined #lisp 12:38:06 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:38:41 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.153.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:38:49 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@91.145.221.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:04 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.153.114] has joined #lisp 12:39:08 splittist: No I haven't. 12:41:50 phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:24 -!- phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:43:31 phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:28 -!- phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:10 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:41 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-239.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:52:57 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:02 phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:43 -!- phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:53:59 phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:23 -!- phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:55:31 phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:49 -!- phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:57:32 snearch [~snearch@f053003087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:58:06 phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:19 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 13:00:51 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:03:06 svens_ [~svens@HSI-KBW-091-089-253-176.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:04:51 -!- svens_ [~svens@HSI-KBW-091-089-253-176.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #lisp 13:05:30 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-37-242.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:06:34 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:09:03 -!- phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 13:09:13 hargettp_ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:36 -!- hargettp_ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:09:43 hargettp_ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:59 -!- hargettp_ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:10:07 phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:07 -!- phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:10:35 phil [~hargettp_@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:44 -!- phil is now known as hargettp_ 13:13:44 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:13:51 phil [~hargettp_@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:42 -!- phil [~hargettp_@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:14:49 phil [~hargettp_@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:58 -!- phil [~hargettp_@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:15:04 hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:31 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:15:38 phil [~hargettp_@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:18 -!- phil [~hargettp_@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:21:45 beach: if you're sorting a known number of places (in the setf sense), then you can user a sorting network to compile the (near) optimal sequence of comparisons and swaps at macro time. 13:22:16 He uses Batcher's algo, which Knuth calls 'merge exchange sort'. 13:23:02 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-237.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:23:10 ozzloy: you can make .cl acceptable by additing it to the auto-mode-alist: (push ' ("\\.cl$" . lisp-mode) auto-mode-alist) 13:23:47 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:14 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has left #lisp 13:24:17 phil [~hargettp_@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:28 -!- phil [~hargettp_@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:26:19 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 13:27:15 phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:21 -!- phil [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:27:59 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:20 splittist: Interesting. You would get a straight-line program with O(nlogn) comparisons and swaps? 13:32:03 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:32:37 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 13:33:07 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:35:04 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:40 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756eb1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:59 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.18.248] has joined #lisp 13:36:07 beach: something like that. Actually (O (* N (expt (log N) 2))) for Batcher, which has less operations with small network sizes than the methods for (O (* N (log N))) methods (according to LOL). 13:39:17 He gets order of magnitude increases in speed for small numbers of places - and, of course, no consing. Presumably if you're specifying places at the call site you're not going to have too many. 13:42:25 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 13:43:25 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-7.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:44:27 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 13:47:28 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-114-104.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:49:46 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:50:20 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:50:36 splittist: But it could also be used to generate optimal base cases for other sorting algorithms, and then you can have as many places as you find useful. 13:52:06 for known small sizes, it's often possible to get much closer to the optimal number of comparisons/swaps. 13:52:39 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.77.238.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: gone] 13:53:15 tfb [~tfb@94.197.77.238.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:54:21 pmurias [~pawel@static-78-8-208-43.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #lisp 13:55:34 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 13:56:19 pkhuong: I suppose in those cases one could try all possible combinations and get the optimal result. 13:56:26 -!- rien_ [~rien_@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:57:41 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-9-144.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 13:58:05 beach: the number of combinations grows quickly. 13:58:33 I imagine. But is has to be done only once, ever! 14:00:19 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 14:01:02 Hunchentoot installation (windows/clozure) asks for libssl32.dll. Where to put it ? I tried system and system32 folders but it doesn't work. 14:01:57 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@88.116.134.106] has joined #lisp 14:02:15 prljavi_hari: do you need ssl? if not, add :hunchentoot-no-ssl to *features* before loading. 14:02:17 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:04 Xach: how do I do that ? It's asking for ssl during installation 14:04:58 prljavi_hari: *features* is a standard cl variable that is a list of things. 14:05:06 prljavi_hari: add :hunchentoot-no-ssl to that list. 14:05:20 ok 14:11:39 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:47 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-9-144.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 14:13:51 brodo [~brodo@p5B023573.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:17 tobik [~tobik@p54895F15.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:26 -!- kbdvdr [~co1n@210-89-227-75.ap-w02.canvas.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:26:35 Bronsa [~Bronsa@host219-181-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:31:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:33:38 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:54 -!- Sluggo [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:14 -!- rins [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:32 rins [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:49 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:35:49 Sluggo [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:26 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 14:36:48 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:37:47 -!- biTT [~frinnn@i59F635D1.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:06 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:33 biTT [~frinnn@i59F6157A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:46:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 14:50:08 GeneralMaximus [~general@122.163.246.88] has joined #lisp 14:54:17 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.18.248] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:54:50 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.146.62] has joined #lisp 14:54:56 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:28 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:55:42 Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:01:27 LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-216-46.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:45 -!- tobik [~tobik@p54895F15.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 15:01:50 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:23 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.146.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:51 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:10:51 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:11:25 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-28.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:57 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:19:36 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-28.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 15:19:38 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:19:44 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-28.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:55 -!- drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:23:03 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-141-230.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:24:11 -!- ifaria [~user@2001:250:4001:143:222:68ff:fe76:88e4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:26:06 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-195-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:22 -!- sm` [s@77.29.101.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:28:29 -!- silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1] 15:29:02 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:41 sm` [~s@77.28.112.13] has joined #lisp 15:37:22 -!- sm` [~s@77.28.112.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:41:04 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 15:43:36 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:07 sm` [~s@79.125.197.225] has joined #lisp 15:45:18 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-141-230.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 15:46:23 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@88.116.134.106] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 15:47:46 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48:48 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-237.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:27 -!- sm` [~s@79.125.197.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:50:17 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-160-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:53:23 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 15:54:30 jleija [~jleija@c-98-199-38-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:37 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-237.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:56:27 sm` [~s@77.29.20.55] has joined #lisp 15:57:36 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@88.116.134.106] has joined #lisp 16:00:39 -!- sm` [~s@77.29.20.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:04:18 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-28.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:04:29 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:07:09 sm` [~s@77.29.18.103] has joined #lisp 16:15:26 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-73-220.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 16:21:01 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.153.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:21:30 -!- sm` [~s@77.29.18.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:22:43 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:22:43 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.217.53] has joined #lisp 16:22:47 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:12 sm` [~s@79.125.196.107] has joined #lisp 16:28:46 ikki [~ikki@189.139.232.70] has joined #lisp 16:28:50 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 16:31:27 -!- sm` [~s@79.125.196.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:31:35 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:33:09 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:34:30 carlocci [~nes@93.37.207.208] has joined #lisp 16:38:05 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:24 sm` [~s@77.29.22.194] has joined #lisp 16:38:38 morning 16:39:28 -!- MrElendig [~oh@pdpc/supporter/active/mrelendig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:03 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 16:44:25 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@88.116.134.106] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 16:45:02 yo slyrus_ 16:45:18 -!- sm` [~s@77.29.22.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:45:27 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:47:28 drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:50:50 sm` [s@77.29.103.52] has joined #lisp 16:50:52 michaelbohn [~chatzilla@p4FF90D91.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:30 -!- pmurias [~pawel@static-78-8-208-43.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has left #lisp 16:54:02 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:55:00 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 16:55:49 pmurias [~pawel@static-78-8-208-43.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #lisp 16:56:00 -!- michaelbohn [~chatzilla@p4FF90D91.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:09 is "context oriented programming" as sensible thing? 16:57:25 I think drewc got some mileage out of it. 16:57:50 pmurias: depends on context 16:58:00 ContextL would do. 16:59:24 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:47 caliostro [~chatzilla@dynamic-adsl-94-38-72-133.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:00:52 pjb: is ContextL usefull? 17:02:45 i need to perform a quasi quoting containing a dot, but i am receveid error message while compiling `(blah blah ,(cons 1 ()) . blah blah) 17:02:52 why? 17:03:07 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:03:31 i a m just a lisp newbie, any help would be appreciate 17:03:53 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:04:47 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@88.116.134.106] has joined #lisp 17:07:32 what are you trying to achieve? 17:07:40 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 17:07:47 . can appear only in the penultimate place 17:08:02 just build a list contaiing a dot and some lisp code evalueted dinamycally 17:08:22 caliostro: do you know what a dot means in list syntax? 17:08:25 containing a dot? what is a dot for you? 17:08:31 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-122-200.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:08:52 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.217.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:09:03 i know dot has a special meanng in a list, but i don't need that special meaning right now 17:09:17 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:55 caliostro: what do you want the dot to mean? 17:10:03 so, what dot do you want? a symbol named ., a character ., or a singleton string, containing .? 17:10:21 a character . 17:10:24 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.197.218] has joined #lisp 17:10:29 #\. 17:10:49 that's not unique to dots, #\ is a character syntax 17:10:59 speaking of drewc... when's he gonna release SMUG? I need an fn-parse-alike for common lisp and don't want to have to write it myself... 17:11:19 what's SMUG? 17:11:28 thank u so much 17:11:40 pmurias: his monad-y parser generator 17:12:02 http://common-lisp.net/~dcrampsie/smug.html 17:12:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl51B7BB9F.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 17:13:42 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:53 isn't ContextL just a smart way to monkey-path stuff in a given dynamic scope 17:15:29 pmurias: What is a monkey path? 17:16:05 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-237.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 17:16:11 if I have a (cffi:defcfun "CFStringGetLength" CFIndex (string CFStringRef)) how do I go about automagically translating lisp strings when passed in to this function? I tried translate-to-foreign (string (type CFStringRefType)) but it doesn't seem to match 17:16:16 Xach: I think he meant monkey patch 17:16:45 What is a monkey patch? 17:17:01 It's for when your monkey starts leaking inappropriately. 17:17:10 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:17:13 Possibly due to excessive spanking. 17:17:35 It's also a term that brain-damaged ruby programmers use. 17:17:35 What an unusual euphemism. 17:17:46 are there any CL packages for groupware, collaboration, that sort of thing? 17:17:53 Xach: I understand it as patching code at run time 17:18:15 or patching without modifying the source code that you are patching 17:18:41 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:17 so anyone know how type translators work for cffi? I've tried this but it's no good: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118656 17:20:20 What's the non-euphemistic to say that? 17:20:34 way to say that* 17:21:22 sounds to me like a somewhat astute description of what I'd use :around methods and defadvice for occasionally. 17:22:00 (Of course, I've only learned about monkey patching on wikipedia a minute ago, so ICBW about its usual meaning.) 17:22:15 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:23:36 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:23:49 Context oriented programming also appears to be a little like method combinations on steroids, but my understanding was always that you'd use context stuff on your own code to distinguish between different contexts, as opposed to just patching in workarounds on existing code. 17:25:20 -!- very [~very@dslb-084-060-096-146.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 17:25:46 i wanted to use something like that to distinguish when objects are initialized with the saved state, and when they're later modified 17:27:33 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:28 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-114-104.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:33:23 billitch [~billitch@78.125.238.33] has joined #lisp 17:34:18 -!- caliostro [~chatzilla@dynamic-adsl-94-38-72-133.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:38:11 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:39:53 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 17:42:23 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053003087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:43:13 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.217.65] has joined #lisp 17:43:27 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:05 etenil [~user@93-96-0-153.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:44:06 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:44:07 Hi there 17:47:56 -!- GeneralMaximus [~general@122.163.246.88] has quit [Quit: See you in another life.] 17:48:09 when I run my sbcl script from a command line and hit control-c to close it, I get a lot of debugging stuff printed on screen. I think it's because I don't handle the SB-SYS:INTERACTIVE-INTERRUPT, but I can't find any clear documentation about this. Could you give me a hand? 17:48:10 *sellout* can't seem to get sbcl 1.0.45 to build on his Mac  have the 1.0.29 binaries installed, and I get "make-target-2.sh: line 36: 25256 Segmentation fault ./src/runtime/sbcl --core output/cold-sbcl.core --lose-on-corruption --no-sysinit --no-userinit < make-target-2.lisp" 17:49:37 caliostro [~chatzilla@dynamic-adsl-94-38-73-76.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:51:29 :'( Doesn't anyone know this? 17:51:55 the sbcl manual doesn't really say anything about that. 17:52:19 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:53:14 etenil: 17:53:31 You can either catch it in your code 17:53:49 etenil: if you want it to simply stop, crash and burn, disable the debugger 17:54:03 hi. if i run the windows version of SBCL under Wine and dump a .EXE, can I use the resulting EXE on a real windows system? 17:54:15 Or use sb-sys:enable-interrupt 17:54:45 dto: theoretically, yes. Beware of the kitteh 17:54:53 interesting. 17:55:13 I can't say anything about how Wine's memory layout might compare to windows 17:55:46 dto: you might be interested in porting lichtblau's patches from 1.0.18 to your win32 SBCL 17:56:12 i wouldn't know enough about sbcl internals to be helpful, probably 17:56:41 i do know that the windows versions of my games run in wine, when made on a real windows system. 17:56:47 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:57:53 why not just test it? 18:02:21 good idea :) 18:03:21 Which bot serves the paste.lisp.org requests and can I invite to a new channel? 18:03:42 (#lisp-pl, taking care of the  admittedly small  Polish Lisp community) 18:04:13 it would be interesting to run a mac server that let people remotely compile their CL to mac apps. 18:05:25 EarlGray [~dmytrish@79.124.245.189] has joined #lisp 18:06:24 moah [~gnu@dslb-178-006-212-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:33 !find freezing 01 18:07:09 ignore that 18:07:16 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:08:21 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.61.203.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 18:08:24 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-141-230.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:36 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:10:19 hello, there seems to be a CLtL2 published by prentice hall, does anybody know what the differnce is to the (standard) one published by digital press? 18:12:29 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 18:15:59 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 18:16:09 I'm using sbcl to run a script from the command line and I get the error `package "SB-POSIX" not found'. However, the file compiles alright at the repl in slime. Could you help me? 18:17:55 you need to load it first 18:18:01 use (require 'sb-posix) 18:18:09 ah 18:18:12 I'l try 18:18:15 -_- 18:19:08 timor [~timor@port-92-195-112-157.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:19:25 antoszka: I don't think it's online now. 18:20:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:21:09 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-139-9.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 18:21:50 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-112-157.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:01 stassats: I've done that, but then it prints some things on my terminal. Can I make REQUIRE silent? 18:22:21 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:24:38 javuchi [~noname@235.Red-193-152-254.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:24 open` [~gleen@cpe-24-92-71-240.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:06 -!- etenil [~user@93-96-0-153.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:28:12 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-168-37.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:28:17 Soulman1 [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:28:26 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:29:45 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-160-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:29:47 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:39:49 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.61.203.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 18:40:28 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:40:53 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 18:40:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 18:40:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:43:31 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:44:13 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-214-93.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:45:11 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-237.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:47:40 sometimes I feel somehow slow when I'm programming in scheme, maybe this is the character of the language or this is due to my noobness. 18:48:13 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-71-146-132-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:55 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-37-242.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 18:54:22 fantazo_: It's the language  you'll feel much faster with CL. 18:54:24 lasca [~lasca@190.178.5.123] has joined #lisp 18:54:40 -!- lasca [~lasca@190.178.5.123] has quit [Client Quit] 18:54:48 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:08 CL is always very sophisticated, everytime I want to use it to make something cool, I get overconfused by its size. 18:56:17 could anyone give me some style tips on my code? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/321151/ 18:56:39 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:40 i'm not really looking for advice on optimizing the algorithm.. i know the way i solved this is inefficient 18:57:03 i'm just hoping to make the glob of code near the bottom (the encode-modified function) more readable 18:57:14 it's just so ugly.. i'm not sure how to fix it 18:57:32 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.77.238.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:59:12 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.217.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:52 could the indentation be improved to make what's going on clearer? does it need more comments? anything? 19:01:29 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:39 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:03 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 19:02:26 l is a bad name for a variable. it's easy to confuse with 1 and it doesn't say anything about what it is. 19:02:50 e is not much better 19:02:51 would "lis" be better? 19:03:05 i don't want to use "list" because i confuse it with the function 19:05:06 Get over it. It's a list. 19:05:08 How do you confuse it? 19:05:12 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 19:05:14 there is no way to confuse it in Common Lisp 19:05:19 it's lisp-2! 19:05:42 any symbol in lisp could be a function, right? 19:06:01 symbol's aren't functions, functions are functions 19:06:05 and it's easy to confuse.. they have the exact same name 19:06:22 ok.. symbols could have a function associated with them, right? 19:06:30 sure 19:06:48 so list could be a function.. and often is 19:07:09 just relying on the position of it to disambiguate it is not good enough for me, in terms of style 19:07:46 list is much clearer to read than l 19:07:46 i'd like as little ambiguity as possible in my code 19:07:51 then don't ask our opinion on style, if you don't agree on it 19:08:11 drdo: very true.. i'm ditching l and am going to use a more descriptive variable name 19:08:14 pattern: There's no ambiguity, if there was, your compiler couldn't compile 19:08:31 pattern: did you ever confuse it? 19:08:33 pattern: and the name that best describes it, is "list" 19:08:36 ambiguity for the compiler and ambiguity for the human reader of the code are two different things 19:08:39 or you just theorize? 19:08:48 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-168-37.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:08:57 quick, how many 1's do i have here? 1111111111111111111111111111111111111 19:09:02 it's unambiguous for a compiler 19:09:07 but not for a human 19:09:10 37 19:09:15 :P 19:09:22 too slow ;) 19:09:30 I often have variables named first, rest, car, cdr, whatever 19:09:35 It's very easy and clear to read 19:09:39 pattern: that's a degenerate example, though 19:09:58 right, what do you call the first element of a list, besides (let ((first (first list))) ...) ? 19:10:09 first-element-of-a-list 19:10:15 my ideal is to look at code and have it understandable with as little thought or puzzling as possible 19:10:16 WHAT? LISP-1 vs LISP-2? Again? -_- 19:10:28 pattern: Yes, and this serves that purpose 19:10:47 pattern: did you base your understandability guidelines on practice? 19:11:27 in other languages, sure 19:11:36 are we talking about other languages? 19:12:05 i don't see how making your variables in lisp the same as function names makes for any clearer code in lisp than in any other language 19:12:12 do you call your C int variables int? 19:12:37 sorry, i don't see how C can enlighten me on writing style in Lisp 19:12:39 pattern: Of course not  you call them i. 19:12:52 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@79.124.245.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:52 sure, when it's a generic integer that has no meaning 19:13:09 otherwise the name is whatever it represents 19:13:19 pattern: calling things with proper nouns, not some stumps, makes code clearer 19:13:27 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.252] has joined #lisp 19:13:55 hi guys 19:14:05 Hello 19:14:09 kinda pulling my hair off on an issue, just wondering if I could get some advice 19:14:20 Don't ask to to ask 19:14:31 I'm trying to write a process that has the ability to restart itself -- for example when it receives SIGUSR1, it'll restart 19:14:42 now all is fine, but I can't get swank to restart properly 19:14:50 -!- open` [~gleen@cpe-24-92-71-240.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:14:53 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.252] has left #lisp 19:15:00 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.252] has joined #lisp 19:15:42 (all on sbcl, I don't quite care of anything else at this point) 19:16:19 I tried to execv to call sb-ext:*runtime-pathname*, and also tried killing all threads, forking, sleeping 3 seconds then execv 19:16:39 but the swank server simply would not start again (socket bind error) 19:17:44 -!- jleija [~jleija@c-98-199-38-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: have a good day everyone] 19:17:54 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:18:12 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-237.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:19:11 Adlai [~Adlai@bzq-79-178-51-213.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:27 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@bzq-79-178-51-213.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:20:27 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:21:41 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 19:23:38 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-168-37.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:24:23 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:25:14 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:44 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-237.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:26:41 eh? can't hear ya 19:28:22 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 19:29:10 Hello 19:29:14 mishoo: US is waking up :P 19:29:30 EU is going to sleep. Nobody's online :D 19:29:45 good point 19:30:16 anybody worked with an actual lisp machine? 19:30:55 few people here, and some more had worked with OpenGenera 19:31:12 mishoo: Wouldn't it be easiest to have 2 separate processes to do that? 19:31:24 the outer one being the looping launcher, the inner one being your real program? 19:31:37 the outer one can easily be a shell script 19:31:42 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:43 Phoodus: a lot easier, but I have my reasons... a single process would be a lot more convenient 19:31:47 the inner one just exits when it gets its signal 19:32:00 Never seen one so I was wondering what it was like 19:32:23 like a cabinet full of wires and circuits 19:32:26 mishoo: does swank use the reuseaddr option on the socket? 19:32:31 Xach: yes 19:32:51 (I need that too, otherwise I can only access it once...) 19:33:03 hramrach_: depends which version. the oldest were like PDP-10 - big cabinets full of wirewrapping etc. 19:33:06 oh, scratch that 19:33:08 well, PDP-6, maybe :D 19:33:16 Xach: I meant I start it with dont-close... 19:33:28 Xach: I think you were asking something else in fact, but how can I know if it uses reuseaddr? 19:33:42 I'm interested in the user experience, not the hardware 19:33:44 hramrach_: there were later models, including ones that were extension cards for other computer systems (MacIvory and the Sun one) 19:33:50 everything is a cabient full of wires and circuits 19:34:00 mishoo: read the part of the source where it establishes the listening socket 19:34:18 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-237.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:34:30 *Xach* also checks 19:34:56 hramrach_: well, if you can get an old but still 64bit Linux running somewhere (preferably with X.Org 6.8 or maybe even older X11 implementation), grab the OpenGenera 2.0 iso from somewhere, and find the snap4 implementation, you can get it running at see for yourself - OpenGenera counts as Symbolics Lisp Machine, even if it was only "Virtual" 19:35:38 Xach: looks like it doesn't 19:35:42 mishoo: it looks like it does to me. 19:35:45 i believe it does 19:35:56 (setf (sb-bsd-sockets:sockopt-reuse-address socket) t) 19:35:57 right 19:36:09 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 19:36:13 anyway then... what is the proper way to stop swank? 19:36:31 ew, such ancient X 19:36:52 i would guess swank:stop-server 19:37:08 spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-68-175-63-237.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:20 but it would run in qemu I guess 19:37:36 _ism [~frinnn@i59F62AA6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:41 hramrach_: Newer X.Org breaks OpenGenera's X11 client, and even newer xlibs (the ones that use XCB as backend) break VLM itself 19:38:00 stassats: I call that in the function that restarts the process, but the problem remains... 19:38:01 also, you need *64bit* linux - it won't run on 32bit machines at all 19:39:13 hmm, 64bit and ancient 19:39:24 (the original was written using specially-written assembler for 64bit CPU) 19:39:28 I wonder what distro keeps archives of such old stuff 19:39:39 no idea 19:39:55 -!- biTT [~frinnn@i59F6157A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:39:57 maybe I can get Lenny or Sarge CD sets 19:39:58 you can always simply compile old X.Org by yourself 19:40:28 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: alexsuraci] 19:40:47 and compile Xnest from the old sources, then run it inside your normal environment, with VLM running with old xlibs by modifying LD_LIBRARY_PATH 19:40:52 ubuntu 7.10 19:41:08 stassats: did it work fully? Including Save World? 19:41:15 yes 19:41:45 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:52 oh, good to know 19:42:10 *p_l|backup* is going to setup a VM on his old laptop for it :d 19:42:11 *:D 19:43:02 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-73-220.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:45:37 http://stassats.dyndns.org/img/genera.png i believe this is it 19:47:09 hramrach_: btw, Open Genera is still sold 19:47:19 that must be 6 Jan 2008 19:47:51 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-28.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:50 -!- osoleve [~osoleve@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:09 I recall reading about some company few years ago buying it and getting OpenGenera 2.0 along with Tru64 Alpha machine (not earlier than 2007/2008, IIRC) 19:50:58 -!- caliostro [~chatzilla@dynamic-adsl-94-38-73-76.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:24 you can also run mit-cdr lisp machine 19:52:44 or was cadr 19:52:47 was it 19:52:52 CADR 19:53:00 there's also a working implementation of TI LispM 19:53:05 Explorer-I iirc 19:54:25 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-73-220.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 19:54:53 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-195-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:56:51 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-237.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:57:16 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.218.122] has joined #lisp 19:57:24 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-116-243.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 20:00:55 gossmore [tjordaan@126.27.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 20:01:39 -!- spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-68-175-63-237.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: spacemanaki] 20:02:26 execve would keep all open file descriptors, unless they are marked with CLOEXEC 20:02:49 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-71-146-132-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:02:53 is there some way to close all descriptors at fork/execv? 20:04:07 why do you need to fork? 20:05:28 mishoo: ask the os for the max fd with getrlimit, then call close on every fd 20:05:53 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756eb1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:09 Some OSes have a utility function to do that, which would presumably know a more efficient way of doing that 20:08:24 dlowe: thanks 20:08:30 is there some library that exports that function? 20:08:49 I'm totally dumb when it comes of cffi... had a colleague help me with the execve stuff :) 20:08:58 No portable one that I know of 20:09:05 mishoo: it should be in the posix support of your implementation 20:09:09 joshe: sbcl-only would be great 20:09:19 (apropos "getrlimit") 20:09:19 ; No value 20:09:25 mishoo: Look in sb-posix 20:09:30 I mean portable between OSes 20:09:50 sb-posix lacks much :( 20:10:05 feel free to send a patch with more :) 20:10:59 mejja [~user@c-b4b5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:12:14 mishoo: there's iolib too 20:13:10 or you can just write a small sb-alien declaration. 20:13:12 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:13:32 (and then send the declaration to sbcl-devel as a patch) 20:13:33 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-178-206-31.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:14:01 will see... I already put more time into it than I could afford :( 20:14:05 *mishoo* thinks ..oO( it sucks that I'm not 20 anymore ) 20:14:09 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-178-206-31.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:16 and never will be again! 20:15:06 btw, I stolen some code from restas-daemon that looks like it would better fit into the sb-posix core 20:15:08 unless you calculate your age modulus 21 20:15:11 why wasn't that added? 20:15:26 naryl: Did it go away with drewc? :) 20:15:48 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:15:55 what? 20:16:00 -!- hugod [~hugod@76.66.191.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:16:46 cafesofie [~cafesofie@dhcp-140-254-204-17.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 20:17:06 Xach: monkey patching is adding methods to a class you didn't define 20:18:57 is that so? 20:20:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:25 stassats: was the questioned aimed at me? 20:21:30 * question 20:22:51 yes 20:22:52 pmurias: in Lisp, methods are not part of a class at all. 20:23:29 so the problem of monkey patching goes away ;) 20:24:02 Xach: AFAICT it's a term used mostly by Ruby devs 20:24:47 it's a method used mostly by Ruby devs ;) 20:25:20 it's cosidered an evil hack by other people 20:25:26 * considered 20:25:31 -!- prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has left #lisp 20:26:31 -!- Bronsa [~Bronsa@host219-181-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:26:42 pmurias: monkey patching always seemed like a weird way to go about protocols, for me (but somewhat necessary, given the way ruby OOP works). 20:27:01 lisp turns that whole process inside-out, though (: 20:28:13 CLOS methods can be lexical? 20:28:18 I guess the monkey-patching equivalent in lisp is to implement a protocol on a class you defined. That's entirely supported, but also relies on well-designed protocols. 20:29:05 what do you mean by protocol? 20:29:07 not in default CLOS. but you can activate contexts lexically in ContextL, for example. 20:30:42 pmurias: a set of functions and generic functions that operate on data in a certain way. by implementing a protocol, I mean attaching methods specialized on your data to those generic funcitons. 20:30:48 "functions", argh. 20:34:00 these can be way more fine-grained than just a class hierarchy (using mixins, or by specializing your methods on object identity). that way, you get very close control over how stuff works in the particular case you're interested in. It needs a well-designed and well-thought-out protocol, though (: 20:36:25 so that was it... closing all file descriptors solved the swank issue :-\ 20:36:55 mitre_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has joined #lisp 20:38:36 splittist_ [~IceChat77@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 20:38:47 delYsid` [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:39:12 dlowe1 [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:19 krappie__ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 20:39:28 jestocost [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:39:49 zakwilson_ [~quassel@chat.qniformchat.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:55 billstclair_ [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 20:39:56 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-122-200.wbs.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:58 SegFault1X [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:06 Adlai__ [~leif@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:08 jim__ [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:11 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-122-200.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:40:21 Xantoz_ [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:40:53 snafuchs [~foobar@ec2-184-73-244-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:54 yan__ [~asym@srtd.org] has joined #lisp 20:41:10 Phooodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:11 arbscht_ [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 20:41:14 (did my last messages make it?) 20:41:40 bigjust_` [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has joined #lisp 20:41:40 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D1FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:42 df_aldur_ [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:52 Fullma_ [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:53 which were last? 20:42:01 -!- zakwilson [~quassel@chat.qniformchat.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:42:10 billitch1 [~billitch@78.125.238.33] has joined #lisp 20:42:14 "for examples, ..." 20:42:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:42:18 Obfuscate` [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:20 -!- zakwilson_ is now known as zakwilson 20:42:30 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:55 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:15 mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:33 no 20:43:50 ok, then: for examples, see "The Art of the Metaobject Protocol" or the various protocols exposed by CLIM, or the acceptor/handler protocols in hunchentoot. they are present in everyday things, and they let you alter the behavior of a program pretty significantly, in a well-supported way (: 20:45:01 fmu` [UNKNOWN@an9iex1i.u10r.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:23 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-28.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:23 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:23 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:23 -!- javuchi [~noname@235.Red-193-152-254.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:23 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-178-006-212-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:23 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.125.238.33] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:23 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:23 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:23 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:23 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-216-46.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- rins [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D1FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.201.105] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- splittist [~IceChat77@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- Adlai_ [~leif@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- mitre [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- yan_ [~asym@srtd.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- crod [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- delYsid [~user@debian/developer/mlang] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:24 -!- v0|d [~user@213.232.33.243] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:25 -!- bigjust_ [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:25 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:25 -!- krappie_ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:25 -!- fmu [UNKNOWN@an9iex1i.u10r.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:25 -!- df_aldur [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:25 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@ec2-184-73-244-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:25 -!- Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:47:26 -!- snafuchs is now known as antifuchs 20:47:35 Xof_ [~crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:47:35 timor [~timor@port-92-195-112-157.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:48:20 -!- mattrepl_ is now known as mattrepl 20:48:53 LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-216-46.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:54 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 20:50:55 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:10 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:37 sacho [~sacho@90.154.201.105] has joined #lisp 20:52:10 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:52:27 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-73-220.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52:27 Xach: when I compile something (using buildapp) if the binary is currently running , I get a message like error opening #P"..." Text file busy 20:52:37 -!- splittist_ [~IceChat77@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space] 20:52:58 just wondering if this was done on purpose...? 20:53:07 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:35 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:44 is that windows? 20:54:07 mishoo: buildapp doesn't try to work around that unix feature 20:54:14 stassats: nope :) 20:54:29 mishoo: you could build to a different name and use "install" to copy it over. "install" knows how to get around it. 20:55:16 Xach: it's totally fine, I can just rm/mv it and then compile, I was just wondering if it was something done on purpose 20:55:28 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:55:36 to my (limited) knowledge, the OS doesn't care if you remove a file which is in use, so that was a bit surprising :) 20:56:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:56:19 I don't think you need to rm anything. Just mv is enough. 20:57:02 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 20:57:18 (Perhaps that's what you meant and I'm merely stating the obvious.) 20:57:48 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:58:15 javuchi [~noname@235.Red-193-152-254.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:39 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:59:37 -!- mascotte [p.scott@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-23-249.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:00:42 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 21:00:42 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 21:01:13 pizdets [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:53 fantazo__ [~fantazo@178-191-160-175.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:02:02 pixpop [~pixpop@adsl-76-208-141-253.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:55 mishoo: unix semantics are coming into play for you. not sbcl-specific. 21:02:57 -!- pixpop [~pixpop@adsl-76-208-141-253.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:08 google "text file busy" for many examples 21:03:19 H4ns``` [~user@pD4B9EE9F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:18 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-28.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:30 pixpop [~pixpop@adsl-76-208-141-253.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:02 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 21:05:57 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-11-77.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 21:06:46 churib_ [~churib@95.156.194.105] has joined #lisp 21:06:48 -!- pixpop [~pixpop@adsl-76-208-141-253.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:07:01 tvaalen_ [~r@terminal.se] has joined #lisp 21:07:45 _death [void@common.lisp.su] has joined #lisp 21:07:52 Posterdati_ [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:07:54 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-168-37.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:55 -!- mejja [~user@c-b4b5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:55 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:55 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:55 -!- churib [~churib@95.156.194.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:55 -!- tvaalen [~r@unaffiliated/tvaal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:56 -!- bigjust_` [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:56 -!- sm` [s@77.29.103.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:56 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:56 -!- H4ns`` [~user@pD4B9EE9F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:56 -!- adeht [void@common.lisp.su] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:56 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:56 -!- koning_r1bot [~aap@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:56 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:08:09 koning_robot [~aap@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #lisp 21:08:19 lonstein_ [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:31 bigjust_ [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has joined #lisp 21:11:12 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:12:15 sm` [~s@77.29.103.52] has joined #lisp 21:15:02 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 21:15:20 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-209-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:20 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-209-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:15:20 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 21:15:47 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.232.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:16:03 [df]_ [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 21:16:03 NNshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:09 ikki [~ikki@189.139.232.70] has joined #lisp 21:16:16 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:16:22 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 21:16:59 -!- ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:59 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:59 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:59 -!- [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:17:07 -!- chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:18:51 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 21:19:32 -!- delYsid` is now known as delYsid 21:19:34 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:19:36 -!- Guest31950 [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:19:38 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:20:12 francogrex [~user@109.130.10.190] has joined #lisp 21:20:18 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:34 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 21:20:34 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:21:46 -!- fmu` is now known as fmu 21:22:10 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:22:15 -!- s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Client Quit] 21:22:18 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-237.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:22:18 -!- egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:22:22 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:23 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 21:22:40 -!- xristos is now known as Guest52376 21:22:53 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:23:07 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.252] has joined #lisp 21:23:11 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 21:23:22 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:24:50 open [~thesk@unaffiliated/open] has joined #lisp 21:25:16 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:38 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-11-77.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26:41 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:27:08 lispm [~lispm@g224122057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:27:45 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224122057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:27:52 lispm [~lispm@g224122057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:28:42 kruft` [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:21 Bucciarati_ [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:47 rokstar_ [~rokstar@d221-90-121.commercial.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:53 erk_ [~MrEd@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has joined #lisp 21:30:40 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:40 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:40 -!- rokstar [~rokstar@d221-90-121.commercial.cgocable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:40 dto [~dto@96.252.62.25] has joined #lisp 21:30:40 -!- kruft [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:40 -!- erk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:40 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:52 metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has joined #lisp 21:31:22 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.10.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:30 -!- dto is now known as 20QAAE4S1 21:32:22 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl51B7BB9F.pool.t-online.hu] has left #lisp 21:33:36 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-114-104.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:34:48 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 21:35:18 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-28.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:35:26 -!- 20QAAE4S1 [~dto@96.252.62.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:12 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-41-219.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:39:13 Atomsk [~ace4016@adsl-33-41-219.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:52 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:41:38 Bronsa [~Bronsa@host219-181-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:42:25 francogrex [~user@109.130.10.190] has joined #lisp 21:45:16 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:46:13 -!- Phooodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:47:01 -!- SegFault1X [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:47:24 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:50 peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 21:50:48 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 21:51:54 -!- gossmore [tjordaan@126.27.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has left #lisp 21:52:15 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-116-243.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:53:48 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:53:49 -!- cibs [~cibs@Sylpheed.Math.NCTU.edu.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:55:03 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:55:42 -!- Obfuscate` [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: A poorly written script will replace me shortly.] 21:55:54 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:02 cibs [~cibs@Sylpheed.Math.NCTU.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 21:59:18 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has joined #lisp 22:00:49 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-239.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:27 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224122057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 22:08:58 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@189-47-113-196.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:10:28 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:11:17 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-244.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:11:37 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-73-220.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 22:12:12 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-73-220.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:58 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-237.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:19:08 hugod_ [~hugod@76.66.191.181] has joined #lisp 22:20:10 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:21:28 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.10.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:35 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.197.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:23:12 hramrach__ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 22:23:29 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.71.82] has joined #lisp 22:23:50 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:05 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:15 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:29:09 biTT [~frinnn@i59F62AA6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:29:58 Good morning everyone! 22:30:43 good morning 22:30:44 hi beach 22:31:58 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@dhcp-140-254-204-17.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:00 -!- _ism [~frinnn@i59F62AA6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:38:22 josemanuel [~josemanue@15.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:39:35 -!- xraycat [~Miranda@brln-4db85728.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: xraycat] 22:40:01 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-244.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:42:07 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.218.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:29 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-244.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:45:00 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-129-201.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:12 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:48:46 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:13 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@15.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 22:51:02 why is it easier to parse a different language with a lisp version of yacc than to write lisp code to parse a complicated lisp macro body? 22:51:40 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B023573.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 22:51:53 because it is a _complicated_ lisp macro body? 22:52:26 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@88.116.134.106] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 22:52:37 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:54 manic12: I suspect your statement is not true in general. 22:53:20 for me 22:54:13 anyway, a better question would be what tools are available for parsing complicated macro bodies 22:54:14 hello beach 22:54:54 yes, hello beach, how comes clim 3? 22:55:21 tmokros [~tsiar@ip68-106-151-191.cl.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:30 manic12: it is probably wise to tell us what you want to do. In essence, you've got the whole of common lisp to parse your macro, but that's not likely what you want to hear 22:55:36 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl4-6-98.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:55:41 manic12: Not being worked on at the moment. I am spending all my Lisp-hacking time on SICL. 22:56:12 -!- churib_ is now known as churib 22:58:49 i'm sick of car/cdr/destructuring-bind/loop collect/etc 22:58:51 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-28.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:57 -!- bencc [~user@bzq-84-111-72-192.red.bezeqint.net] has left #lisp 23:00:03 beach what is sicl for the ignorant? 23:00:51 manic12: Building blocks for Common Lisp implementers. 23:01:04 ooo neat! 23:02:23 manic12: you still haven't told what you actually want to do 23:05:25 gbg545 [~AndChat@82.132.139.235] has joined #lisp 23:05:31 ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has joined #lisp 23:05:50 -!- hramrach__ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:11 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:06:51 madnificent: what I want to do is add functionality to a complex macro in modular, preferably declarative way 23:06:57 -!- gbg545 [~AndChat@82.132.139.235] has quit [Client Quit] 23:09:01 like adding productions to a yacc parser 23:09:32 hi _3b 23:09:46 <_death> manic12: http://paste.lisp.org/display/93588 for an old hack using cl-yacc for macro processing 23:09:50 Xach: i missed the discussion but re: monkey-foo, there are a bunch of things that apparently blow the mind of your average java programmer, like redefining a function at run-time 23:09:57 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:10:12 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:31 _death: I am quite familiar with a lisp version of yacc written for allegrocl 23:10:39 and since this doesn't involve the usual edit/compile/test/deploy cycle that keeps java (python?) programmers employed, it was given a slightly derogatory name and viewed as an exotic thing 23:10:44 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-175-7.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 23:11:32 at least that's my understanding as viewed through the lens of a lisper trying to understand what all this maven/deployment/apache-foo crap that clojure programmers seem to love so much 23:12:10 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:12:30 I've written character-based lexers and complicated grammars and such, but nested s-expressions are a pain 23:12:33 -!- fantazo__ [~fantazo@178-191-160-175.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:14:13 how many semicolons should i use to comment out code at top-level? 23:14:36 churib: usually three. 23:15:04 beach: thanks 23:15:49 churib: Oh, comment out code! You don't want to leave commented-out code in there, so it doesn't matter because you are going to remove it soon anyway. 23:16:41 <_death> manic12: you can treat parsing s-expressions as any other tokens 23:16:59 it's pretty ugly that way 23:17:29 <_death> manic12: did you check the annotation for my paste? 23:17:32 beach: okay :) 23:19:01 _death: yes 23:19:17 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 23:19:30 -!- Bronsa [~Bronsa@host219-181-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:19:37 <_death> manic12: in any case, there are a variety of approaches.. also check out PAIP's semi-LOOP implementation or CD-player thingy 23:19:46 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:19:53 hramrach__ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 23:19:54 <_death> manic12: if you think it's "pretty ugly" then I can't help you 23:19:55 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:20:13 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 23:20:29 statonjr-ios [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:31 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:21:43 _death: I have written something in lisp, then I wrote it in excl.yacc, the excl.yacc version isn't proving to be as flexible as just the lisp code 23:22:10 but at least the yacc version has productions 23:22:45 <_death> I don't know how to respond to that. my annotation uses yacc 23:23:22 _death, I see that, what I'm saying is I already have a fair amount of a yacc parser written for my macro 23:23:25 <_death> you can also use PEG parsers such as esrap etc. 23:23:34 what are those? 23:23:47 statonjr-ios_ [~statonjr@166.137.14.69] has joined #lisp 23:23:58 <_death> https://github.com/nikodemus/esrap 23:24:06 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:24:52 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: alexsuraci] 23:27:19 -!- statonjr-ios [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:27:22 -!- statonjr-ios_ is now known as statonjr-ios 23:29:55 doesn't scheme have some sort of pattern-based macros? 23:30:48 <_death> yes 23:31:01 -!- statonjr-ios [~statonjr@166.137.14.69] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:31:40 does cl have any utilities similar to that functionality 23:31:41 ? 23:31:59 <_death> there are pattern-matching libraries 23:32:14 <_death> did you read PAIP? 23:32:45 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 23:33:41 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:34:20 if I read paip it was a decade ago, so effectively no 23:35:01 <_death> maybe it's time to revisit 23:36:29 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:33 levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:36 maybe so, but deciding to rewrite the parser feels like enough of a tangent 23:42:21 pnq [~nick@ACA28AB3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:42:47 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:29 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-28.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:44:52 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-139-9.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:45:55 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-139-9.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 23:46:50 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:49:23 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp