00:00:11 -!- froggey [~froggey@2002:5200:bb48::820:18:7072] has quit [Changing host] 00:00:19 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 00:00:55 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:01:04 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 00:02:15 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Client Quit] 00:02:20 froggey [~froggey@2002:5200:bb48::820:18:7072] has joined #lisp 00:02:59 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 00:04:21 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:07:57 -!- froggey [~froggey@2002:5200:bb48::820:18:7072] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:09:41 jameslafferty [~jamesl@c-24-6-91-187.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:03 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 00:14:52 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:14:58 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:15:12 -!- pizdets [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:21 -!- pmurias [~pawel@89-78-165-237.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:20:41 Is it correct that compute-slots will only work on a class after an object of that class has been instantiated? 00:21:31 no, it will only work if the class is finalized 00:21:45 When is a class finalized? 00:23:17 mcspiff [~user@142.68.77.111] has joined #lisp 00:23:56 http://alu.org/mop/concepts.html#class-finalization-protocol 00:24:09 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:45 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@124.76.12.110] has joined #lisp 00:24:49 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:25:02 -!- SqubaSteve [~SqubaStev@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:10 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:24 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:26:29 -!- jameslafferty [~jamesl@c-24-6-91-187.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:27:21 stassats: Thanks! 00:29:12 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.64.22] has joined #lisp 00:30:07 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 00:30:41 -!- balooga [~00u4440@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:32:25 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:59 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.125.113] has joined #lisp 00:34:22 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:35:01 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-186-119.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:35:50 billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-76-223.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:37:00 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:37:17 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@119.Red-79-145-47.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: http://quasiquote.me] 00:39:58 Genosh [~Genosh@249.Red-81-38-180.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:05 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.64.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47:33 mcspiff` [~user@142.68.154.61] has joined #lisp 00:49:35 -!- mcspiff [~user@142.68.77.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:52:55 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:55:01 -!- rien_ [~unkanon@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:56:08 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.142.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:57:36 -!- EarlGray [~EarlGray@88.154.11.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:59:51 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:02:21 kdr2 [~kdr2@221.220.251.59] has joined #lisp 01:03:18 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@187.57.19.237] has quit [Quit: going to irssi] 01:04:41 -!- Adlai_ [~leif@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:05:34 valium97582 [~daniel@187.57.19.237] has joined #lisp 01:08:09 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-117-4.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:17:19 -!- heloehlo [~bfouts@66.83.65.206.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:18:38 simo163 [~quassel@85.136.15.136.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:19:01 Hi 01:19:14 Hello 01:20:41 it's possible use (loop for x in list when() summing 1) ?? 01:21:08 that works in a simple example but in my code dosen't :S 01:21:59 my function is 01:22:01 (defun numero-hackes(l i) 01:22:01 (let* ((elem (nth i l)) 01:22:01 (lista (append (subseq l 0 i) (subseq l (1+ i) (length l))))) 01:22:01 (loop for elem2 in lista when (se-hacken elem elem2) summing 1))) 01:22:06 simo163: use paste.lisp.org instead. 01:22:27 how? 01:22:35 go to paste.lisp.org, paste the code, share the link 01:22:53 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:23:09 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@86-9-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:23:13 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.119.151] has joined #lisp 01:23:18 hi 01:24:19 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 01:24:33 I was reading Land of Lisp and I was thinking about the differences of eq and equal, and I google around for a bit.. then I saw this page of a guy who doesnt like lisp at all http://john.freml.in/lisp-against-equality 01:25:25 tcleval: not everyone is a fan of lisp at all. 01:25:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:27:05 mcspiff`: I know, but he has some argumments about equality. He doesnt like that Lisp has so many options :-) 01:27:44 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118470 01:28:06 tcleval: it's hard to take someone seriously when he claims that eql is useless except for numbers 01:28:09 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.125.113] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 01:28:15 supose my fuction call is like (numero-hackes '('(0 2) '(1 3) '(2 0) '(3 1)) 1) 01:28:17 adeht: beat me to it 01:28:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-165-224.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:27 adeht: yep 01:28:47 and se-hacken return T or nil 01:29:29 simo163: what's it supposed to do? 01:29:59 amm 01:30:03 and any particular reason for the double quoting 01:30:44 can say how many time se-hacken return T 01:31:13 CL-USER> (caar '('(1 2) '(3 4))) 01:31:13 QUOTE 01:31:22 simo163: count-if might be easier. 01:31:25 -!- mcspiff` is now known as mcspiff 01:31:40 Xach show me this error Argument X is not a NUMBER: (1 3) 01:31:40 [Condition of type SIMPLE-TYPE-ERROR] 01:31:45 iwillig [~iwillig@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:00 simo163: because thats a list? 01:32:28 yes 01:32:39 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:32:52 i's a list 01:32:54 Adlai_ [~leif@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:38 simo163: if you're just trying to count I think Xach is probably right 01:33:41 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 01:33:54 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:31 mcspiff yes but the count it's just the goal 01:34:49 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:34:49 but elem2 and elem i will use them in when 01:35:11 the loop structure woks well 01:35:31 ok 01:35:46 but i don't know why show this problem bc elem=(1 3) i use it like a list 01:35:54 not like a number :S 01:36:23 hmm one moment, let me try running your code 01:36:40 se-hacken just returns true or false? 01:37:25 i will run it too 01:37:40 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:37:58 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:38:04 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118470#1 01:38:12 try this mcspiff 01:38:52 why are you double quoting everything? 01:39:54 clhs quote 01:40:12 how? mcspiff 01:40:36 did u mean the proves? 01:40:43 when you type '('(1 2) '(3 4)) 01:40:47 the lisp reader sees 01:40:52 just to see when the code dosn't work 01:40:54 ((QUOTE (1 2)) (QUOTE (3 4))) 01:41:19 I don't think you want those extra layers/quotes in there 01:41:32 am 01:42:14 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 01:42:15 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 01:42:40 i don't know what i shoulf to fo 01:42:42 do 01:42:43 :S 01:43:07 Well, lets make a general sketch of what you want to do 01:43:30 just in english, describe what we're trying to do 01:43:50 ok 01:44:06 this problem is about to resorven queens 01:44:09 n queens 01:44:13 supose n=5 01:44:17 n=4 01:44:19 so 01:44:40 ok 01:44:53 we can have a poblation like that '('(0 2) '(1 3) '(2 0) '(3 1)) 01:45:21 ok, so each of those represents the square a queen is sitting on? 01:45:26 What is a "poblation"? 01:45:56 '('(0 2) '(1 3) '(2 0) '(3 1)) is a poblation 01:46:05 it's aleatory 01:46:21 so in the row 0 the queen is in the line 2 01:46:23 1 3 01:46:27 2 0 01:46:31 3 1 01:46:52 simo163: what is the significance of QUOTE symbols in that list? 01:47:04 serichsen: that's what I've been wondering 01:47:26 simo163: I'm 99% sure you mean '((0 2) (1 3) (2 0)) 01:47:32 amm 01:47:35 i will try 01:47:39 that 01:47:45 simo163: I think that you do not understand what ' means. 01:47:51 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.142.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 01:49:00 ayy so yes :S 01:49:02 For example: 01:49:04 i do 01:49:05 (list (list 2 0) (list 1 3) (list 0 2)) 01:49:06 ((2 0) (1 3) (0 2)) 01:49:18 simo163: what does ' mean 01:49:30 but im confusing 01:49:37 your code is confusing 01:49:39 so to be a ariable no 01:49:45 a is not a 01:49:53 i have to put 'a 01:49:55 no ? 01:49:57 :S 01:50:01 that's correct 01:50:20 but if its a list, you only need it at the start of the list, not for each element in the list 01:50:26 simo163: That's just a symptom. 01:50:42 ahhhhhhhh i didn't know that 01:51:13 simo163: The point is that everything the REPL reads gets evaluated. 01:51:28 ' is short for (quote ...) By putting in the extra quote symbols, you're adding a lot of extra symbols that you don't need. 01:51:33 simo163: Quote prevents evaluation. 01:52:08 ahhhh 01:52:34 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:52:58 serichsen: Jeeze, you gotta take the magic out of everything ;-) 01:52:59 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.87.67] has joined #lisp 01:53:54 Where are you located simo163? 01:54:38 spain.. why beach? 01:55:04 simo163: Just checking. Is this homework? 01:55:39 beach> yes 01:56:20 -!- billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-76-223.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:18 can u imagine two queens can't kill echa other 01:58:44 simo163: I think we're all familiar with the n queens problem from when we did it as homework 01:59:10 simo163: Most people in this channel prefer that you don't use abbreviations such as "u" for "you". 01:59:18 hehehe mcspiff are u a student? 01:59:54 if there are not in the same line, i=i1 02:00:03 simo163: Nope. But there are a few classic problems in computer science. That's one. 02:00:22 so yes 02:00:47 you can resolve them by a lots of algoritm 02:01:00 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:01:46 -!- serichsen [~user@g228194051.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 02:02:18 billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-76-223.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:03:26 going to sleep guys 02:03:28 good night 02:03:35 simo163: Good night 02:03:39 good luck with the problem 02:03:39 see you at the next time! 02:03:43 simo163: good night 02:03:51 thanks ! :) 02:03:57 -!- simo163 [~quassel@85.136.15.136.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:05 Well that was fun 02:07:15 SqubaSteve [~SqubaStev@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 02:07:24 is clisp a type of common lisp? 02:07:37 SqubaSteve: its an implementation 02:09:26 I'm using the dandelion plugin for lisp, is that bad? 02:09:34 eclipse* 02:09:49 most people use emacs + slime 02:10:01 SqubaSteve: not familiar with it, but if it works for you 02:10:14 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-117-4.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:25 time to ask #lisp. does anyone remember the name of a free mp3 album of Christmas music put out by some university based on algorithmically processing and resynthesizing a huge library of christmas music 02:12:16 found it 02:12:17 http://notes.variogr.am/post/262976984/a-singular-christmas-2004 02:13:04 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 02:13:36 just for kicks, I was going to suggest Doctor Octoroc's nintendo game themed christmas music sampler. but that doesn't /exactly/ fit the bill (: 02:14:05 dto: That guy is one of the cofounders of echonest now. Cool music analysis web service. 02:14:14 yeah 02:14:33 -!- xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.81.99] has left #lisp 02:15:00 i've done some experiments with concatenative synthesis (sort of) and also with audio morphing. i have a large sound library. 02:16:02 running big files through Soundmosaic can be fun 02:16:06 but it overheated my cpu once 02:16:49 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@249.Red-81-38-180.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 02:17:36 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@173-10-44-57-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:18:40 dto: Is that stuff in IOFORMS? 02:18:52 not yet. 02:19:05 its old elisp code that used ecasound.el 02:19:21 its in a bin with some other old code. 02:19:44 sellout: btw, re. our scratching our heads about #+#1=..., this one is a pretty good example: 02:20:13 #+#1=ecl nil #+#2=(or allegro ccl cmu lispworks sbcl) t #-(or #1# #2#) (break "Define +use-standard-instance-access+") 02:20:26 that (or #1# #2#) is pretty nice, OAOO-wise 02:23:18 jan247 [~jan247@58.71.51.194] has joined #lisp 02:23:18 -!- jan247 [~jan247@58.71.51.194] has quit [Changing host] 02:23:18 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 02:23:46 antifuchs: Ah yeah  great, now you have me wondering if I should use that in my portability layers ;)  #-(or #1# #2# #3# #4# #5# #6#) (:file "unsupported") 02:24:11 unfortunately, ecl and allegro don't support it (yet?) 02:24:41 -!- sm` [s@77.29.16.18] has quit [] 02:26:02 Perhaps I need to write a reader macro portability library  02:26:31 let's get meta-er (-: 02:26:57 Well, it would decrease readability. 02:27:27 redline6561: https://github.com/dto/alpha/blob/master/ecaspace.el 02:27:30 its' very old :) 02:27:31 ba-dm-tshhhhhh 02:28:27 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.119.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:28:52 dto: Good stuff. 02:29:01 i forgot all about it actually. 02:29:09 i may still have some of the output 02:29:13 yes i definitely do 02:29:31 it involved a john cage recording i got from internet archive , a speech 02:29:40 i found out i couldn't make any derivative works. 02:29:49 but i have the rest of it. 02:30:11 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:30:20 dto: I keep swearing I'm going to hack up some kind of primitive sample-based live coding thing off hefner's mixalot but I still haven't gotten anywhere near spending time on it. One of these days. :P 02:30:35 dto: At least freesound makes that sort of thing easier these days. 02:30:41 i'd like to make something happen with MikMod, whose C API is interesting. 02:30:45 whats freesound 02:31:22 dto: http://www.freesound.org/ Searchable, free, cc-licensed samples galore. 02:35:48 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.87.67] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 02:36:41 hey sweet 02:37:01 i've read rumors about a huge public domain collection of XI instrument files 02:37:06 pnq [~nick@AC810D1E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:37:25 which would be super for the mikmod thing i'd like to do 02:38:04 mikmod is more than a module player as it turns out. i found a partial CFFI binding for mikmod in the CL-WAV-SYNTH project. it's GPL so i might make my own version 02:38:52 I really wish commonQt didn't have the depency on various things from the KDE project..gahhh 02:39:09 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.78.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:39:26 i think KDE lost the war for 2 things. 1. using C++ and 2. ugly icons 02:39:43 it's the icons that always kept me from using it 02:39:53 even when i used sucko old crashy versions of gnome 02:40:05 I'm on OS X, I really don't need KDE for *anything*. 02:40:56 but it seems like everyone who has bindings to Qt uses smoke, which is part of the kdebindings project, which needs chunks of kdelibs for cmake stuff... 02:41:18 you can turn off smoke-ifying most of kde, I think 02:41:26 just needs a bit of work (: 02:41:55 antifuchs: smoke is the part I need to build 02:42:23 I guess I should work on that Homebrew formula some more 02:46:17 -!- incandenza_ [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:46:37 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:46:37 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 02:46:37 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:47:29 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:49:04 -!- incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:51:34 -!- mcspiff [~user@142.68.154.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:52:30 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: FORBES IF FOR GAY MEN AND GAY MEN ACCESSORIES] 02:52:54 quek [~ancient@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:36 -!- Adlai_ [~leif@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:57:08 who did KDE lost the war to? 02:57:14 *lose 02:58:35 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 03:03:11 incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:12 JuanDaugherty: to stumpwm 03:03:19 incandenza_ [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:21 ah, OK 03:04:16 *JuanDaugherty* totally accepts that. 03:05:08 -!- SqubaSteve [~SqubaStev@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:05:17 SqubaSteve [~SqubaStev@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 03:06:01 how do i re-assign the value of a argument that is passed in the function 03:06:32 (defun func (list) <- how do i change the list variable from within the function? 03:07:14 you don't pass variables in Lisp, you pass values 03:08:10 how to i change a value that is passed? 03:08:25 (let (list '(1 2)) ()) doesn't work 03:08:45 why do you expect it work? 03:08:59 SqubaSteve: It sounds like you need some sort of introductory text. 03:09:16 SqubaSteve: do you know about Practical Common Lisp? 03:09:28 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.80.247] has joined #lisp 03:09:33 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.80.247] has quit [Client Quit] 03:10:41 SqubaSteve: to modify a binding, you can use setf.. e.g., (setf list '()) 03:10:45 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.142.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 03:10:57 cheers 03:11:45 Adlai_ [~leif@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:14 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 03:16:36 -!- quek [~ancient@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:16:56 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 03:20:14 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 03:23:32 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:24 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:26:24 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 03:30:34 SqubaSteve: Do you know any other programming language? 03:34:26 mcspiff [~user@142.68.154.61] has joined #lisp 03:36:57 sharps [~hazel@ip-118-90-50-156.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:37:04 xinming [~hyy@115.221.11.165] has joined #lisp 03:37:12 arielCo [~arielCo@201.208.227.48] has joined #lisp 03:39:05 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:42:00 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:42:37 -!- mcspiff [~user@142.68.154.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:45:15 [I guess not] 03:46:14 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.80.247] has joined #lisp 03:47:29 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:47:38 (well, even the syntax was wrong anyway) 03:47:56 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.80.247] has quit [Client Quit] 03:50:36 pinkwerks [~pinkwerks@74.68.129.122] has joined #lisp 03:51:34 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.80.247] has joined #lisp 03:52:30 Yup. 03:56:05 troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:31 csmax_ [~max@p5DE8CD52.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:44 -!- troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:04:10 -!- csmax [~max@p5DE8C74F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:05:25 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.80.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:49 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.182] has joined 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[~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:24 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:21:31 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:40 em [~emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 04:27:02 -!- SqubaSteve [~SqubaStev@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:28:16 jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:28:28 -!- em [~emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Quit: Smile! ] 04:28:53 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@187.57.19.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:28:57 em [~emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 04:32:24 -!- Adlai_ [~leif@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:34:02 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 04:35:32 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-96.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:01 -!- sharps [~hazel@ip-118-90-50-156.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has left #lisp 04:36:46 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:38:44 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:55 -!- pinkwerks [~pinkwerks@74.68.129.122] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:41:27 -!- SpitfireWP is now known as Picpermor 04:42:48 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-117-4.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:42:55 sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 04:43:20 i'd just like to say a big thank you to everyone here who supports lisp on gentoo 04:43:55 and any other lisp developers, mainters, and other people who make using lisp easier for the rest of us 04:46:25 -!- sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Client Quit] 04:46:36 sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 04:48:10 -!- sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Client Quit] 04:53:03 sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 04:54:51 -!- billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-76-223.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:28 SqubaSteve [~SqubaStev@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 05:00:39 I have a problem returning a value from a lambda function 05:00:40 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118476 05:00:48 I've written the expected output 05:00:54 but its just returning an error 05:01:00 sysfault_ [exalted@c-68-36-149-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:02 -!- sysfault_ [exalted@c-68-36-149-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:01:34 -!- arielCo [~arielCo@201.208.227.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:01:41 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:01:45 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-11.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:08:14 SqubaSteve: You have an extra set of parethensis 05:08:18 *parenthesis 05:09:36 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.182] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:13:28 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-ayohxoouqfvppsgv] has joined #lisp 05:13:33 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-ayohxoouqfvppsgv] has quit [Changing host] 05:13:33 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:14:26 drdo: where? 05:15:20 ok taken them out 05:16:03 how can I get it to return result? 05:16:44 balooga [~00u4440@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:48 hmm... i'm a bit confused by the gentoo asdf packages... 05:23:25 looks like the standard portage tree has dev-lisp/cl-asdf-1.86-r1 but the lisp overlay has dev-lisp/asdf-1.123 05:23:59 standard portage tree has: dev-lisp/cl-asdf-binary-locations-20061018 while the lisp overlay has dev-lisp/asdf-binary-locations-0.3.8-r1 05:24:02 which should i use? 05:24:19 daniel [~daniel@p5B3279D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:53 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5B327CFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:26:16 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:29:34 pattern: they all seem outdated. it is probably a better idea to avoid distro packages for lisp for this reason. have you considered Quicklisp? 05:30:08 you shouldn't use any of those, but rather the ASDF2 bundled with your lisp implementation 05:31:55 arbscht: i'm a complete lisp newbie... i've heard the name "quicklisp", but don't have any idea what it even is 05:32:16 slyrus: the lisp implementation i'm using is sbcl via a gentoo package 05:32:59 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-elqqkeyvvsbrrvln] has joined #lisp 05:33:11 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-elqqkeyvvsbrrvln] has left #lisp 05:33:18 i wouldn't use that for anything other than building your own SBCL from current sources. use a recent SBCL and quicklisp. 05:33:32 alright 05:33:56 nice thing about gentoo is that the packages are so easy to compile, install, and update.. 05:34:03 guess i'm just going to have to buck up and do it the hard way.. 05:34:54 and the problem with doing it the hard way is that i pretty much have no clue what i'm doing as far as lisp goes 05:35:05 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nxczbaxwuypmvabs] has joined #lisp 05:35:17 but Quicklisp is the easier way :) 05:35:46 -!- StephenFalken [email@89-180-232-197.net.novis.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35:50 once i get it set up... maybe 05:36:04 but even getting it set up will require me to read lots of docs... 05:36:14 StephenFalken [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 05:36:25 but hopefully not too much in terms of magic lisp incantations that i have to put in config files and whatnot.. 05:36:51 anyway.. i should be spending my time reading the docs and not flapping my lips here.. :P 05:36:54 thanks for the help! 05:37:47 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:38:38 kbdvdr [~co1n@210-89-227-75.ap-w02.canvas.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:39:54 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has 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[~az@p4FE4FE17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:28:09 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:29:18 methods [~methods@pool-96-240-0-78.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:08 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:12 -!- kbdvdr [~co1n@210-89-227-75.ap-w02.canvas.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:33:40 fusss [~fusss@1.146.6.210] has joined #lisp 06:36:00 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:37:45 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:53 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:41:31 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:44:57 cmm- [~cmm@109.65.200.120] has joined #lisp 06:45:43 Does anyone know if LOCAL-TIME used to have a LOCAL-TIME structure? 06:48:19 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.206.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:51:07 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:52:51 Hmm. I've been thinking about javascript's division of computation into algorithmic stages and the implications for GC. 06:54:06 If you could determine non-escape from one stage to the next, you could assign it to a scratch heap. 06:54:22 That might trivially dispose of most of the ephemeral garbage. 06:55:04 you trying to implement lisp in js ? 06:55:21 No, although that's straight-forward. 06:55:41 js has some interesting properties because of how it is specified. 06:55:50 One is that i/o does not occur while running code. 06:56:22 (which makes code execution algorithmic) 06:56:44 I was think then about how this might affect gc strategies. 06:56:50 Zhivago: that's interesting actually 06:56:57 hm but js is general purpose if i binded an i/o language to it why couldn't i write i/o code in it ? 06:57:28 Zhivago: how does js handle i/o then? 06:57:43 fusss: It happens after you return to the system. 06:58:06 fusss: The system may then call you as the result of having done some i/o. 06:58:08 does it queue the I/O, return thunks, stream .. how? 06:58:18 fusss: Magic. 06:58:23 heh 06:58:32 s/Magic/implementation dependent/ I guess 06:58:45 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:55 fusss: It doesn't matter how it happens -- there's just no way to do i/o without returning out of your code. 06:59:05 is there a good online reading material for lisp ? 06:59:11 like recogmendation 06:59:59 minion tell methods about Practical Common Lisp 07:00:15 i didn't get any bot message 07:00:17 the silence .. it's defeaning 07:00:23 fusss: What this means is that you have no blocking idioms -- your code handles an event and then returns. 07:00:55 fusss: Which means that you have a clear partitioning of the garbage produced by each event handling. 07:01:03 methods: this one assumes prior programming experience in a non-Lisp language. http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ 07:01:16 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:01:29 Zhivago: if that's the case, then scratch heaps DO make sense 07:02:08 ah cool 07:02:08 thanks 07:02:22 bbl 07:02:37 fusss: Yes. More than that, in a distributed system, you might want to use object leases rather than GC. 07:02:44 psilord [~psilord@adsl-71-150-253-113.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:04 fusss: In which case you can lease such objects with a duration of zero. 07:03:29 Zhivago: before we get into distribution; what are the local implication of this? are there any other (imperative) languages with this property? 07:03:51 fuss: Not that I know of. 07:04:15 is there an established name for this quality? something Citeseerable? 07:05:45 Given how broken the rest of js is, I think this is a matter of accident than design 07:06:10 What's broken in js? 07:06:56 the type system? the basic operators? 07:07:07 fusss: For example? 07:07:22 where do I start .. 07:07:45 With an example. 07:08:14 -!- SqubaSteve [~SqubaStev@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:08:19 hold on, while I do a reading of Appendix B in the voice of Jack Nicholson: http://oreilly.com/javascript/excerpts/javascript-good-parts/bad-parts.html 07:09:28 no other language makes me stay on-guard and defensive as does javascript 07:09:52 Well, that's talking about you. 07:10:30 Personally, I think js has been remarkably well designed in the fundamentals. 07:10:45 Most of the dodgy stuff is floating on top, like equals in CL. 07:11:09 does the fundamentals include the one line of lex they have added to insert semi-colons where none-exist? 07:11:56 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:15:01 Anyhow, back to leases. 07:15:28 Distributed GC is hard, but you can delegate it to user if you use leases instead. 07:16:03 A program can say "I want this object for at most N seconds", and after that time the system can reclaim it. 07:16:29 Then the program can walk its objects and top up their leases every so often. 07:16:43 Does that make sense? 07:16:56 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:17:09 Zhivago: yes, it does 07:17:19 EarlGray [~EarlGray@79.124.182.17] has joined #lisp 07:17:23 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:17:53 The problem is in estimating the duration of ephemeral objects. 07:18:24 If you have some way of saying "I only want this object while I'm doing this computation", then you can answer that nicely. 07:18:26 Zhivago: brb, need to cook dinner 07:18:33 Fair enough. 07:18:40 cheers! 07:18:56 -!- fusss [~fusss@1.146.6.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:23:09 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 07:23:09 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 07:23:09 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:25:37 well, i just compiled sbcl from source, and ditched my old gentoo sbcl 07:26:17 now, previously having followed the instructions in the gentoo lisp howto, i had the following in /etc/gentoo-init.lisp: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/318040/ 07:26:49 and this in my ~/.sbclrc: (when (probe-file #p"/etc/gentoo-init.lisp") (load "/etc/gentoo-init.lisp")) 07:27:17 do i need all that? or will a simple (require :asdf) in my ~/.sbclrc be enough? 07:27:46 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:29:20 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 07:31:48 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:32:24 adu [~ajr@c-76-23-82-40.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:47 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:34:23 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:35:42 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Client Quit] 07:40:24 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:40:37 good morning 07:42:09 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.142.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 07:43:01 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:43:11 TheRebutler [~TheRebutl@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:44:30 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:45:01 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:45:26 lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-8-230-105.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:14 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:48:19 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:18 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:49:26 Can someone refer me to a website, tutorial, or video, that will "impress" me with what I can do with emacs and elisp? I'm a vim guy and I am curious to be "wowed" :) 07:49:53 ,salespitch 07:49:53 TheRebutler: #emacs is ----> that way 07:50:11 ok, will check out #emacs 07:50:19 but yeah, there must be a good salespitch, right? :) 07:50:21 somewhere? 07:50:29 go to #emacs to find out 07:50:36 roger. 07:50:39 TheRebutler: do you have such a link for vim? 07:50:58 haha, no.. 07:51:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:51:16 TheRebutler: check out some org-mode maybe 07:51:47 really, i just have not messed with emacs much and wanted to go through a tutorial or book that would show me why everyone who loves it , loves it, particularly for lisp dev. 07:52:47 TheRebutler: there was a SLIME screencast or something 07:53:01 -!- azaq231 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has left #lisp 07:53:07 i can't find a function to get the difference between two LOCAL-TIME timestamps, is there something I miss ? 07:53:56 Isn't there something to convert them to a number? 07:53:57 there's a difference in years (TIMESTAMP-WHOLE-YEAR-DIFFERENCE), but I'd need something a little more precise (millisecond granularity) 07:54:20 they can be converted to a unix date, but then it will have a 1 second granularity 07:54:29 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.95.148] has quit [Quit: ] 07:54:35 galdor: local-time:timestamp- not good for you? 07:54:36 can you just subtract one from the other? 07:55:09 TIMESTAMP- adjust a timestamp by substracting an amount of hours, minutes, seconds, etc. 07:55:13 galdor: or timestamp-difference 07:55:14 not another timestamp afaik 07:55:36 there's no TIMESTAMP-DIFFERENCE on this api documentation page 07:55:40 gonna look in the sources 07:56:04 the docstring says it returns the difference in seconds 07:56:28 seems I'm gonna have to patch it to get a millisecond difference 07:56:51 and patch the doc since it's not up to date 07:56:59 but looking at the source it seems to be easy to do it with finer granularity 07:57:06 yep it is 07:57:14 I'll do it this evening or tomorrow 07:57:19 thank you for your help 07:58:33 does anyone know where quicklisp installs libraries? and is there any way to configure it to install them somewhere else? 07:59:22 pattern: does not documentation state that? 08:00:34 i can't find where.. i'm looking here... http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 08:00:52 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: omghaahhahaohwow] 08:01:11 oh.. nevermind 08:01:13 it's in the FAQ 08:02:10 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has joined #lisp 08:02:54 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:04:24 Joreji [~thomas@84-166.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:05:47 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:08:48 -!- EarlGray [~EarlGray@79.124.182.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:09:19 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-94-181.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:13:39 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-96-62.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:17:01 beach` [~user@116.118.73.9] has joined #lisp 08:18:28 -!- beach [~user@116.118.7.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:19:22 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-tbwexlmiafdrhbkj] has joined #lisp 08:21:07 EarlGray [~EarlGray@79.124.148.7] has joined #lisp 08:21:18 -!- EarlGray [~EarlGray@79.124.148.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:37 pjb, therep 08:23:11 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.142.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 08:24:34 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:26:24 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.106.40] has joined #lisp 08:27:43 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755225.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:42 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:35:48 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:37:00 i'm trying to see if i can install a lisp package called "nekthuth" http://nekthuth.com/doc.html#starting-installing-lisp 08:37:18 but (ql:system-apropos "nekthuth") doesn't seem to show that it's available 08:38:01 Yeah, i wrote it to just use asdf-install 08:38:10 ah 08:38:13 I haven't really published it anywhere but the cliki 08:38:22 well, i downloaded the lisp files manually 08:38:29 but don't know what to do next to install them 08:38:37 (sorry, i'm a complete lisp newbie) 08:38:46 That's cool. What lisp? 08:38:50 sbcl? 08:39:01 sbcl 1.0.45 on gentoo 08:39:02 (I hope, since you aren't going to get far with it if you're using something esle) 08:39:02 yep 08:39:17 Yeah, just (requre 'asdf-install) (asdf-install:install 'nekthuth) 08:39:29 Erm, require 08:39:40 any idea where that will install it? 08:39:41 Though I hear slimv is better these days, since it actually gets updated a bit. 08:39:47 ~/.sbcl/site? 08:39:48 Maybe? 08:39:51 hmm 08:39:54 And then the symlink to ~/.sbcl/systems 08:40:16 i'd like to install it to somewhere in /usr/local/sbcl if i can.. 08:40:31 maybe in /usr/local/sbcl/lib/sbcl (my $SBCL_HOME) 08:40:32 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:33 Yeah, if you choose to do system wide install, I geuss it does tehre 08:40:51 how do i do a system-wide install? 08:40:59 asdf-install gives you the option 08:41:02 cool 08:41:11 thanks 08:41:13 i'll give it a shot 08:41:19 Are you just using portage to install the other packages? 08:42:55 i was at first... 08:43:05 but people here advised me not to 08:43:12 so i just installed sbcl from source 08:43:22 and then installed quicklisp 08:43:22 Ah, interesting. 08:43:32 don't really know what to do next as far as setting everything up.. 08:43:37 I definitely just used portage with the lisp overlay 08:43:46 that's what i was doing 08:43:49 But I kick it oldschool? 08:43:55 but i was told all the stuff there was outdated 08:44:07 Yeah< ic an see that. 08:44:13 I don't really mind 08:44:36 I don't really do cutting edge cl dev. I wrote most of my own libraries, and the stuff I don't is pretty stable 08:45:18 -!- TheRebutler [~TheRebutl@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:45:25 G957 [~G957@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:27 i'd kind of prefer to use the gentoo packages myself 08:45:41 it would save me all this headache of installing stuff manually and managing the installs/updates 08:45:45 That's how I am. I only have enough brainspace for one package system :P 08:46:02 btw, thanks for writing this 08:46:14 Oh, sure. It's a 2011 resolution to actually update it 08:46:15 i'd actually tried slimv before, but found it too much of a pain 08:46:16 -!- G957 [~G957@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:46:21 it just doesn't integrate very well with lisp 08:46:24 Well, get a gentoo package to supply sbcl + quicklisp, and off you go. 08:46:48 quek [~ancient@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:55 Yeah, I have no idea what slimv does. I just kinda code in a vacuum, especially with personal stuff. 08:47:16 It's like, I wish nekthuth connected to the inspector, so I'll proabbly do that soon. 08:47:36 btw, how does nekthuth connect to lisp? 08:47:41 from vim.. 08:47:43 Just over a socket 08:47:47 Using python 08:47:49 ah 08:48:01 Well, depends on if you want the sbcl process to be a child of vim or not 08:48:05 and where does it display the lisp output? 08:48:17 In a separate buffer. 08:48:23 cool 08:48:26 that's perfect 08:48:42 Yeah, i tried to embrace the whole modal concept. It's not really an interpreter at all 08:49:07 btw, did you know that vim can run mzscheme scripts? 08:49:22 Yeah, but it's not well supported and the threading is not nice. 08:49:27 I prefer python's thread library 08:49:32 ah.. didn't know that 08:49:37 Or at elast, mzscheme wasn't supported well in 2007 08:49:50 well, it seemed to work for me 08:49:57 but i didn't do extensive testing on it 08:50:06 And python has a lot of libraries for cononecting sockets adn whatnot that are well documented 08:50:17 and know almost nothing about lisp/scheme.. so it'll be a while before i can even imagine doing extensive testing on it 08:50:38 Yeah, and I don't really feel like learning a different lispy standard library 08:50:49 So I never did more with scheme than boot it up and say "yep, pretty darn similar to CL" 08:50:57 heh 08:51:07 well, if python works well for you, then that's all right by me 08:51:11 "Oh look, hygenic macros. So that's what they talk about...ok, back to CL" 08:51:23 just thought it might somehow be easier to connect vim to lisp via scheme 08:51:33 Nah. In fact, vim is very non lispy 08:51:43 So interacting with vim from lisp is really painful. 08:51:56 Having python be the bridge to do the stream parsing is nice 08:52:07 yeah.. but the mzscheme interface is supposed to be much more of a complete language binding than any other vim language binding 08:52:18 at least according to the guy who made the mzscheme binding.. 08:52:25 Hum. Slimv look good, indeed, but it "blinks" a lot here 08:52:29 That's true. But in general I just have vim and python talk to each other very simply 08:52:44 If i want to do buffer things, i talk in vim 08:52:51 If I want to do pythony things, i talk in python 08:53:02 Axioplase_: it blinked for me too.. really annoying.. and slow too 08:53:05 And the two of them don't really communicate other than very basic commands. The real magic all happens on the CL side 08:53:11 Axioplase_: it also messed up here and there.. 08:53:22 Yeah, that's what I mean by nekthuth doesn't want to be an interactive thing 08:53:23 It's modal 08:53:25 pattern: slow, I can live with it. Blinking, however, pisses me off 08:53:32 You want to send a sexp, then you do that, from command mode 08:53:41 HerbieB: does nekthuth have anything like slime's lisp debugger integration? 08:53:53 Someday! 08:53:56 (i know very little about it.. but hear it's good) 08:53:59 Someday this year! 08:54:03 cool :) 08:54:09 All nekthuth has right now is just printing out the restards 08:54:20 And if you choose one that would need more input 08:54:21 Well 08:54:23 Good luck on that 08:54:27 let me thank you again for doing this, herbie 08:54:37 Oh sure, but wait until it's actually working 08:54:43 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:50 i've been using emacs to program lisp.. and for a die-hard vim user, it's really painful 08:54:54 Oh, and don't look at the code. Last person who did that got very frusrated with me :P 08:55:00 even with viper mode and vimpulse 08:55:03 Apparently my code is very very ugly 08:55:08 Yeah, I never did use emacs 08:55:12 Or slime 08:55:32 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:55:40 they look pretty cool.. and if i knew emacs, i'm sure i'd love using them together 08:55:50 but as i don't, it's so painful 08:56:01 though much less painful than it would be were it not for viper and vimpulse 08:56:13 Yeah, it's like any other tool 08:56:16 but.. in any case, i'm really looking forward to doing my lisp development in vim 08:56:18 My problem is I embraced vim too hard 08:56:25 same here 08:56:33 Wmii, vimperator, etc 08:56:34 i've been using it for well over a decade 08:56:51 levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:51 itsalltext 08:57:08 would love to learn emacs as well as i know vim.. but i just can't make the time comittment 08:57:11 I just wish they had a vim interface for wow 08:57:30 heh 08:58:02 what i most want a vim interface for is opera 08:58:13 Vimperator is pretty awesome 08:58:22 vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has joined #lisp 08:58:35 that's a firefox extension, right? 08:58:53 Yeah 08:59:19 i don't really use firefox much.. too slow.. and extension conflict hell really got to me when i tired it 08:59:45 otoh, it does have lots of cool extensions 09:00:10 Yeah, I don't really customize it other than flashblock, noscript and vimperator, so I don't really have a problem. 09:00:11 oops.. tired=tried 09:00:45 HerbieB, how is 0.4 of nekthuth coming? 09:01:07 opera's supposedly finally got extension ability recently too.. so hopefully there'll be some cool extensions for it soon as well 09:01:55 I haven't touched nekthuth code in like 9 months. I figured out the way I did everything regarding buffers to be too primitive to work in the inspector 09:02:06 HerbieB, is there some vcs for nekthut, so that others could help? 09:02:08 And then I got addicted to project euler and heroes of newerth :P 09:03:25 Nah. But to be fair, I dont' work fast enought o need one. As soon as I write like 30 lines of code I just release a version 09:03:57 So feel free to just steal it, fork it, set up github or whatever. I guess you should call it something else? 09:04:18 well, if you put it on github, others could help and use the same name 09:04:22 Since I own nekthuth.com and whatnot. You could actually call it nexus, I suppose 09:04:55 TBH I'd be glad if there's someone to operate the website and do releases ... that's two things less to worry about 09:05:28 In reality I fail at open source and community. In reality it's like "Here, I wrote this. If you find it useful...uh...enjoy?" 09:05:42 -!- adu [~ajr@c-76-23-82-40.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 09:05:52 So if you rock at community, fork it, rename it and build the community. I've done nothing except link to it from vim.org and the cliki vim page :P 09:06:30 Feel free to email me, or ask here, any questions on the code. $10 the first thing you do upon setting it up yourself is reformat allt he code :P 09:06:42 well, as the links are already built I'd like to avoid the renaming ... 09:06:51 Do you have a github account? 09:07:03 Nah. And it's the cliki.....it's pretty easy to edit. 09:07:31 Hell, if you embrace clbuild or whatever the cool kids are using these days, yuou'll get 19182375912875% more market penetration into the vim/lisp crowd 09:07:36 HerbieB, I don't talk about HTML ... I'm talking about the links in people's heads. 09:07:47 There's links in peoples heads? 09:08:08 Not like slimv, just based on google numbers 09:08:19 Hell, even limp has like 40000 hits 09:08:24 And nekthuth has what, 500? 09:08:31 Believe me, you don't want the mindshare I've gained :P 09:08:43 yes, but the slimv developer is re-building his scripts 09:08:55 didn't the slimv guy switch to emacs? 09:09:00 and if there's some common ground instead of 5 separate projects then progress could be much faster? 09:09:06 pattern, not AFAIK 09:09:55 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:01 Oh, I hear you flip, I really do. I'm just not the guy for that. I tried to do the open source thing until I had to work with one other person, and I decided that it just isn't for me. Open source for me is simply "hey, I wrote this, feel free to use it if you like, and bonus! You can see the code!" 09:10:04 HerbieB: most vimists seem to move from "vimperator" to "pentadactyl". You might want too. 09:10:22 Oooo, why? 09:10:42 flip214: http://bradbeveridge.wordpress.com/2007/06/21/how-a-vim-user-converts-to-emacs/ 09:11:15 he's the developer of slim-vim... don't know if that's the same as slimv 09:11:20 It's not 09:11:29 ah.. my mistake, then 09:11:33 pattern, I think that's slim-vim ... as of mid-dezember 2010 the slimv guy is still active on vim 09:11:36 adhoc [~adhoc@ppp118-210-132-42.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:41 HerbieB: Because vimperator is going to move away from "vimness" in his next releases. 09:11:53 Axioplase_: Awww, sad. I'll check it out, thanks :) 09:12:01 slimv has been updated last week, I think. 09:12:29 Yeah, slimv is definitely being developed. I point everyone to that because they seem to have a real good thing going there. 09:13:00 I wonder if pentadactyl includes the ability to have a boot up mapping file 09:14:27 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:14:37 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:54 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-134.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:16:08 HerbieB: what's your gpg key fingerprint? 09:16:59 http://kank.net/pubkey.asc 09:17:14 that's the key 09:17:30 Oh, hm 09:17:40 I have no idea 09:17:47 the fingerprint is just for verifying the key 09:17:52 that's ok.. don't worry about 09:17:54 not important 09:18:12 Oh. I figured owning the domain worked :P 09:18:23 If you can trust nekthuth.com, who can you trust? :P 09:18:44 but what if the domain's been hacked, and you didn't notice? 09:18:54 and someone snuck their own key in place of yours.. 09:18:55 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:18:55 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:19:00 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 09:19:05 Outdated lisp vim bridges are definitely a hot target these days :P 09:19:11 :) 09:19:17 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:19:20 Theyc an hit like, .000000000001% of the population with their hackzorz 09:19:36 today a vim bridge, tommorow the world! 09:19:56 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 09:20:06 Yeah, that was my idea 09:20:12 -!- balooga [~00u4440@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:20:13 Currently waiting on tomorrow 09:20:32 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 09:20:32 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 09:20:32 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 09:20:40 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 09:21:03 -!- xristos is now known as Guest69593 09:21:58 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 09:22:17 Herbie: A few orders of magnitude larger than that, I'm sure. 09:22:52 I suppose. I really just held down the zero key. 09:22:57 Until it looked kinda right 09:23:17 Usually it's shift zero, though 09:23:19 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:23:25 ))))))))) yeah, tha tlooks right. I'm sure that closes the form 09:28:48 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:29:10 -!- kdr2 [~kdr2@221.220.251.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:29:43 vokoda` [~user@host109-152-177-101.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:30:55 -!- vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:56 hmm... got a wierd error from sbcl when trying to do a site install 09:30:56 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.217] has joined #lisp 09:31:06 Yah? 09:31:33 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/318175/ 09:31:45 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:06 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 09:32:08 Are you root? 09:32:15 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:32:23 yep 09:32:27 Well, i assume you know what you're doing wrt your system 09:32:35 I've never seen that before. I wonder what google has to say 09:33:18 if you have any suggestions as to how i can do a site install without becoming root, i'm all ears 09:33:19 -!- quek [~ancient@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:33:35 Yeah yeah :p 09:33:51 anyway... root or not, if my personal account is hacked, i'm done for 09:33:53 I wonder if it's a dependent package 09:34:30 All google says is has to do with internet failure 09:34:41 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:35:32 yeah.. not much help 09:35:58 Try somethign else, like cl-drakma 09:36:27 I guess it's just drakma 09:36:55 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@124.76.12.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:37:13 same problem 09:37:26 thing is it gets much further when i try to install it as myself 09:37:43 just won't create the necessary directory as myself rather than root 09:37:55 maybe i'll just chown the directory to myself and try to install it then 09:38:05 Or just do a personal install 09:38:09 was hoping to avoid doing that.. as it's a pain 09:38:13 yeah, i could do a personal install 09:38:19 Multi user box? 09:38:26 i probably won't be doing much lisp development as root anyway 09:38:35 yeah, it's a personal box 09:38:45 but i do want my lisp packages to be available to root as well 09:38:56 not just to my user 09:39:14 Sure. asdf is pretty simply. It doesn't even care where you unpack something 09:39:18 The key is the simlink in systems 09:39:31 hmm 09:39:35 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:39:52 well, i'll install nekthuth for just myself for now 09:39:56 ls -l /usr/local/sbcl/lib/sbcl/site-systems 09:39:59 will deal with the asdf error another day 09:40:13 Hm, i wonder if that's the problem 09:40:19 That your system wide isn't the gentoo systemwide 09:40:47 valium97582 [~daniel@189-47-126-17.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 09:41:33 splittist [~John@149-50.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:41:35 morning 09:41:39 don't know enough about asdf to say 09:41:43 hi splittist 09:41:56 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:42:00 For instance, my /etc/sbclrc changes the main dir to something else in gentoo 09:42:13 Though you compiled it yourself 09:42:16 And installed it yourself. 09:44:29 i removed the gentoo sbcl 09:44:34 so i no longer have an /etc/sbclrc 09:44:39 Ah, yeah, ok 09:44:50 also, i've set $SBCL_HOME to /usr/local/sbcl/lib/sbcl 09:44:58 Right 09:44:59 Makes sense 09:45:12 in the error message you can see it knows about that dir 09:45:20 or, rather, before the error message 09:45:21 Indeed 09:45:24 when it asks where i want to install 09:46:28 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:46:48 hmm.. during the personal asdf install, it complains about "No key found for key id 0x9E2F734EF57A448E" 09:47:42 Sounds like a gpg error of some sort 09:48:15 yeah, it's definitely a gpg error 09:48:29 i'm just wondering why it wants that key 09:48:31 rather than yours 09:48:35 which i already got 09:49:00 It rejected me 09:49:04 I don't blame it 09:50:32 oh... 09:50:41 it's because of this... "Downloading package CL-HTML-PARSE, required by nekthuth" 09:50:58 Ah 09:50:59 Hm 09:51:07 so it's going to ask for keys from all the other people who's packages it downloads 09:51:11 Yep 09:51:13 That's true 09:51:35 i suppose it's nice that these packages are gpg signed 09:51:38 Do the portage scripts take care of that or do they just skip the key phase, i wonder 09:52:18 but, like ssl popup warning which people just click "ok" on, i think the signatures are going to be generally pretty useless for most people's security 09:52:56 Yeah 09:53:09 i just went and got the guy's key from a public keyserver 09:53:22 but unless i verify the fingerprint from him, it could be anyone's key 09:53:27 I just always skipt he gpg check 09:53:28 Yep 09:53:32 anyone could upload a key to a keyserver, and claim it's anyone else's 09:53:55 For me, it's like, as long as someone who is dedicated to it COULD do it and alert everyone else, that's good enoughs ecurity for me./ 09:53:56 oh yeah.. i could just skip the check 09:54:36 yeah.. i'm kind of hopeful that at some point, someone will catch on.. and news will spread before it hits me 09:54:40 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:55:40 Also, if your target of hacks is common lisp asdf-installers....well...your tiem could probably be better spent elsewhere. 09:55:59 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:56:01 heh... i just imported the gpg key and selected "retry" from the sbcl install screen.. and now it complains that "error opening #P"/home/pattern/CL-HTML-PARSE.asdf-install-tmp": File exists" 09:57:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@84-166.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:57:07 simple enough to just manually remove the file, of course 09:57:12 and now it continues 09:57:50 guess asdf is a little buggy 09:58:03 and what's asdf doing putting temp files right in my home directory? 09:58:21 Well, asdf-install != asdf, I think 09:58:45 And I'm not sure asdf-install was ever meant to catch on like it did. Hence clbuild 09:58:47 -!- Guest69593 [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:59:53 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:00:00 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 10:00:53 all this gpg key stuff is making me want to go to start going to some keysigning parties again 10:00:53 I should go to bed. 10:00:58 Hahaha 10:01:10 gotta build the web of trust.. 10:01:25 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:01:26 Anyway, email me if you get it installed and have issues or whatever 10:01:36 But yeah, it's like 4am or something here 10:02:35 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:02:46 ok 10:02:50 thanks again for your help! 10:03:01 and thanks for writing nekthuth 10:03:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:03:40 xristos_ [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 10:04:00 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:10 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 10:05:10 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 10:05:10 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 10:06:54 H4ns``` [~user@p579F8E03.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:12 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 10:07:41 -!- beach` is now known as beach 10:08:39 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:09:37 Good evening everyone! 10:11:25 -!- H4ns`` [~user@pD4B9E436.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:12:08 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:16:19 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.132.165] has joined #lisp 10:17:56 hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:22:48 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:54 good evening beach! 10:25:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-65-205.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:25:26 Kruno [dced8607@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.237.134.7] has joined #lisp 10:25:42 Hello 10:25:46 I have finally done it. 10:25:59 Kruno: Hello! What is it that you have done? 10:26:04 I have created something so sub-optimal, but it looks good. 10:26:05 http://paste.lisp.org/+2JFA 10:26:14 3gigs of memory consed. 10:26:21 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 10:26:58 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:27:06 I am not entirely sure if I deserve a medal. 10:27:59 sorry, a total of 6 gig consd 10:28:31 I got the same code running, compiled, under Haskell in a few seconds. 10:28:44 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-101-121.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:29:07 Is it just me, or is the performance difference purely compiled vs CLISP's interpreted execution? 10:31:39 Kruno: What did you compare CLISP to? 10:31:50 Compiled Haskell. 10:32:19 Kruno: Try comparing CLISP and SBCL first. That should give you a better clue. 10:32:35 Another thing, function arguments, as I understand them are evaluated, and bound in their specified order. So I am guessing it is safe to do (defun fn (n &optional (m (1- n)))? 10:32:46 Windows user here, no access to SBCL. :( 10:33:00 I did use ECL, but that was even slower. 10:33:24 CLISP is quite fast surprisingly. 10:33:31 but I do need access to SBCL 10:33:43 to really test it, as it has awesome compiled code. 10:34:43 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:37:17 Kruno: And yes, that lambda list is allowed. 10:37:50 Thank you. :) 10:38:23 Is it okay if I ask someone here to run that code in SBCL, compiled and (time ...)d? 10:38:52 <_3b> it runs in about 12 seconds here, and complains (correctly) that you used declaim where you should have used declare 10:39:04 :o 10:39:07 Thanks 10:39:41 I was reading something and said declaim was prefered over declare, but was not too sure why. 10:39:49 <_3b> also, you shouldn't use safety 0 10:40:12 Yeah, that was silly. 10:40:13 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:40:15 <_3b> that may be, but you should use it correctly if so, not just replace it directly 10:41:03 Is there an LLVM compiler integrated in any common lisp implementation? 10:41:24 I wonder if I should stuff around and get it to work with CLISP? 10:42:14 CLISP has very simple, and a small set of bytecode, so it should not be too difficult to mess around with it, but if someone has done something in CL may as well use that. 10:43:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:44:02 there are sbcl bindings to the llvm floating around somewhere. 10:44:24 but I don't think they got far. 10:44:38 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:44:42 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:44:50 http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/llvm.git/blob/HEAD:/README.LLVM 10:44:56 <_3b> 10 seconds with all of the functions declared optimize (speed 3) 10:45:14 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:45:27 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:45:40 <_3b> probably would have to fix the code to get faster, using lists and iterating by recursion probably aren't helping performance 10:45:52 arielCo [~arielCo@201.208.227.48] has joined #lisp 10:46:04 -!- lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-8-230-105.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 10:46:07 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 10:46:33 vokoda`` [~user@host109-156-3-228.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:46:47 what is the point of (saftey ?) I thought it was a valid optimisation to bring saftey down -- it would kill bounds checks and type checks. 10:47:08 <_3b> it is a valid optimization, just not one you should generally be using 10:47:53 I'd have thought it was for a code fragment in a bunch of nested loops that you can be confident about... 10:47:53 <_3b> for one thing, (on sbcl at least) you can usually get most of the benefit with appropriate inlining 10:47:55 -!- vokoda` [~user@host109-152-177-101.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:48:17 <_3b> for another, taking longer to debug trivial stuff outweighs the benefit anyway :) 10:49:00 <_3b> right, if you have well tested code, with your own type checks on the external APIs, safety 0 might be worth trying 10:49:43 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:55 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@189-47-126-17.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:51:05 -!- biTT [~frinnn@i59F63572.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:54:38 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.217] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:54:55 biTT [~frinnn@i59F62DD6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:56:00 Kruno: when you say you have no access to sbcl and your are windows user, I assume those are two independent laments. 10:56:08 Nope 10:56:13 One implies the other 10:57:19 -!- arielCo [~arielCo@201.208.227.48] has left #lisp 10:57:44 there is a sbcl for windows ... sadly 1.0.37 iirc, but there's one 10:57:59 and there are instructions how to compile it using mingw 10:58:32 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.132.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:58:47 Why have they not got the latest version to work under Windows? Is it due to a lack of interest? 10:59:10 I really wonder how many Windows Lisp developers exist. 10:59:15 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has left #lisp 10:59:50 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:59:57 Kruno: I think they're too busy developing /with/ lisp. But a quick google around will find recent .msi s for sbcl with threading. 11:01:03 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.226] has joined #lisp 11:01:22 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.132.165] has joined #lisp 11:01:23 (e.g. https://sites.google.com/site/dmitryvksite/sbcl-distr/sbcl-1.0.45-threads.msi ) 11:03:20 kdr2 [~kdr2@123.122.121.174] has joined #lisp 11:04:25 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 11:07:10 valium97582 [~daniel@187.34.53.7] has joined #lisp 11:15:49 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.132.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:16:31 Thanks for the help people. I will see you all later. 11:16:34 -!- Kruno [dced8607@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.237.134.7] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:16:38 dmytrish [~dmytrish@193.239.152.189] has joined #lisp 11:19:59 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:23:36 how would you write (the Python code) max(values, key=func) in Lisp? 11:23:40 (least painful way.) 11:23:47 loop? 11:24:04 (reduce #'max list :key func) 11:24:14 Oh. :-) Thanks. 11:24:30 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:25:12 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:26:31 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:29 *hmm* that's not quite what I want. I want to max based on key, but the result from list. 11:30:01 say you have a list of pairs (count word) 11:30:06 max based on count, but collect word 11:36:00 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.134.130] has joined #lisp 11:39:48 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.125.113] has joined #lisp 11:43:12 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:46:28 hey tic man. 11:47:52 like ((1 foo) (3 bar) (2 tic)) and it returns bar ? 11:48:33 (find (reduce #'max list :key #'car) list :key #'car) 11:53:54 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:54:23 miv [~imv@94.231.123.31] has joined #lisp 11:54:34 or if you like loop, maybe: (loop for x in list maximizing (car x) finally (return (cadr x))) 11:54:53 -!- miv is now known as imv 11:55:40 <_3b> arbscht: did you test that? 11:56:09 I tested something like that 11:56:44 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755225.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:52 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 11:57:34 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:57:39 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 11:58:45 <_3b> MAXIMIZING doesn't affect X, so the finally will see the last value, not the highest 11:59:04 hrm, so you're right 11:59:51 my test appeared to work, by coincidence 12:09:37 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:18 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:16:49 -!- frodatio` [~user@p54B29C72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:32 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.134.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:21:58 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:23:07 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:23:46 timor [~timor@port-92-195-122-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:23:49 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:24:04 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 12:25:24 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2621.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:25:36 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-96.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:25:53 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:28:36 pmurias [~pawel@wifi.ii.uni.wroc.pl] has joined #lisp 12:28:50 is it possible to print out a clos object with all it's slots visible? 12:30:47 vokoda``` [~user@host109-153-36-166.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:52 pmurias, inspect 12:31:10 or use (defmethod print-object ...) 12:32:21 If you go the print-object route, I'd propose reading "XP. A Common Lisp Pretty Printing System" 12:32:24 -!- vokoda`` [~user@host109-156-3-228.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:33:20 I just used this for pretty-printing a tree of objects: 12:33:20 (defmethod print-object ((en entry) stream) (format stream "~@<#~:>" (name en) (children en))) 12:33:44 Fits nicely into the pretty printer, using its abbreviations, indentation, etc etc 12:33:50 Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 12:34:34 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:43 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.11.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:36:05 mega1_ [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 12:36:10 xinming [~hyy@115.221.11.165] has joined #lisp 12:37:01 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:37:03 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:05 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:41:06 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 12:42:42 -!- mega1_ [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 12:45:25 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 12:46:25 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 12:47:09 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 12:47:33 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 12:48:48 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:51:10 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 12:51:43 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:00 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.125.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:52:14 hmm... looks like asdf-install gives misleading error messages when a gpg signature check fails 12:52:35 it says, "No key found for key id 0x595FF045057958C6." 12:52:41 when i've already imported that key 12:52:45 quek [~ancient@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:08 in fact, it gives that error because the downloaded file fails the signature check 12:53:35 someone else has already run in to the same problem and written an article about it.. https://twoguysarguing.wordpress.com/tag/asdf-install/ 12:55:17 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 12:58:27 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:06 how do I get #'time to print time with more precision? 13:01:22 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:01:23 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:19 "The magnitude of the results may depend on the hardware, the operating system, the lisp implementation, and the state of the global environment" 13:02:22 (: 13:02:29 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 13:02:30 get-realtime-etc. 13:03:41 How much of that there precision do you need? 13:03:51 Amadiro [~customer@ti0021a380-dhcp3386.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:03:53 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:57 tic: get-internal-real-time and get-internal-run-time might help. 13:05:43 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:06:06 Xach, thanks. g-i-real-t has less precision than I need, though. I guess I can't change that. 13:06:08 -!- pmurias [~pawel@wifi.ii.uni.wroc.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:06:16 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:06:26 tic: You will have to use some other implementation-specific technique to get high precision, then. 13:06:31 tic: What implementation are you using? 13:07:02 Xach, SBCL. 13:07:15 do you need precision, or that two consequent calls to get-internal-run-time return different results? 13:07:49 tic: sb-ext:get-time-of-day might be helpful, then. 13:08:01 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 13:09:53 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:10:11 ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:58 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h88-206-143-104.vokby.se] has joined #lisp 13:12:37 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:13:48 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:15:05 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:20:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:21:50 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:24:04 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 13:29:38 sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 13:34:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 13:36:06 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 13:36:38 -!- sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:38:54 Xach, do you have your workflow of quicklisp release preparation documented, somewhere? 13:39:20 rien_ [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:22 deepfire: No. 13:39:36 Xach, I wonder if desire can be used to automate some of the things you must be doing.. 13:40:33 What does desire do? 13:40:51 Do you want a short explanation, or a detailed one? 13:41:31 No. 13:42:29 Do I sense passive aggressive attitude here? 13:43:07 Well, I don't really care about desire, so if you can't tell me what it does when I ask, I am not motivated to learn more. 13:43:54 Xach is a stoic lisp developer 13:44:17 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:21 unkanon2 [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:20 You seem to be moderately disliking me, for some reason. All I can say. 13:46:24 -!- rien_ [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:46:39 deepfire: Would you rather talk about desire or about how you feel? 13:47:13 Xach, both things matter, man. 13:47:27 deepfire: Not to me. 13:47:56 Well, you care about how /you/ feel. 13:48:19 And it's only a matter of time, until someone could be harsh to you. 13:48:49 But who am I to teach you these things? 13:48:59 *deepfire* shuts up 13:49:01 How is "No" an answer to deepfire's question? 13:49:26 *schmrkc* touches this all with a stick. 13:49:36 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:50:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:51:16 sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 13:51:31 -!- sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51:49 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:48 yonatan_ [~yonatan@89-139-3-70.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 13:53:17 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-68-41.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 13:54:48 -!- unkanon2 [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:06 rien_ [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:14 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:57:02 -!- yonatan_ [~yonatan@89-139-3-70.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:13 yonatan_ [~yonatan@89-139-3-70.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 14:00:15 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 14:01:19 -!- lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:02:44 Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 14:04:40 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:05:31 mansour [~mansour@78.155.80.175] has joined #lisp 14:08:06 -!- Picpermor is now known as Spitfire 14:09:35 -!- ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:11:41 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.142.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 14:11:54 -!- yonatan_ [~yonatan@89-139-3-70.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:23 yonatan_ [~yonatan@89-139-3-70.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 14:13:02 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:28 sellout [~greg@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:15:25 -!- imv [~imv@94.231.123.31] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:19:00 sluggo [~chris@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:55 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:45 cvandusen [~user@68-90-30-246.ded.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:50 miv [~imv@94.231.123.31] has joined #lisp 14:21:00 -!- miv [~imv@94.231.123.31] has quit [Client Quit] 14:21:04 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:22:52 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-122-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:24:28 imv [~imv@94.231.123.31] has joined #lisp 14:24:41 younder [~john@9.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 14:25:35 hi 14:27:07 -!- dmytrish [~dmytrish@193.239.152.189] has left #lisp 14:27:10 dmytrish [~dmytrish@193.239.152.189] has joined #lisp 14:29:03 sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 14:29:32 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 14:29:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 14:29:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:29:58 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:47 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:50 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:34:15 younder: hello 14:34:59 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:36:44 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:39:01 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:07 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:41:24 timor [~timor@port-92-195-122-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:42:05 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:28 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:30 fusss [~fusss@120.156.253.145] has joined #lisp 14:43:05 hi, how do I get the key pressed inside key-events in Lispbuilder-SDL? 14:43:46 fusss: http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~psilord/lisp-public/option-9.html has an example. 14:44:57 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:45:18 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:33 Xach: the :key argument passes a symbolic key-name that must be dispatched on. I just want the Lispy char-code or just char 14:46:14 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:46:51 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.142.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:47:48 -!- kdr2 [~kdr2@123.122.121.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:48:09 that's a nice tutorial, fwiw 14:49:03 urandom__ [~user@p548A7F2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:27 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 14:52:14 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:57 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has left #lisp 14:57:23 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:57:32 unkanon2 [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:56 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 14:59:10 -!- unkanon2 [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:15 dfox [~dfox@e22.dkm.cz] has joined #lisp 15:00:47 -!- rien_ [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:02:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:03:15 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Quit: npoektop] 15:04:58 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 15:06:47 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-68-41.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:07:08 pjb, I'd prefer referring to symbols in com.informatimago... through a package nickname, but you provide (understandably) none. 15:08:11 pjb, do you simply use com.informatimago and shadow CL symbols, referring to /them/ through the nickname, instead? 15:08:35 pjb, or you employ some library to do package renames? 15:08:45 pnq [~nick@ACA4DD84.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:19 Sorry, but I must be going for now, see you in a hour or two.. 15:10:51 rien_ [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:39 deepfire: pjb code is also UPCASE, usually 15:11:55 and GPL 15:12:25 I didn't read the "GPL" parts since I avoid reading UPCASE strings, including acronyms 15:12:39 It varies. And his loops use : for keywords. 15:13:34 fuss: You can't write a Perl Script? 15:13:45 younder: why would I? 15:14:13 Easier for processing ASCII I expect 15:15:39 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:15:58 Well, desire is also GPL, so it's not a problem in my case. 15:16:55 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-122-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:10 timor [~timor@port-92-195-122-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:09 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:19:31 GPL in Lisp code is like the brown parts of the swimming pool; sooner or later it goes everywhere 15:21:08 -!- twem2` [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:37 Genosh [~Genosh@32.Red-81-36-108.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:49 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@88-196-11-118-wifi.kjj.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 15:31:35 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA4DD84.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:12 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:33:49 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-ff2fc100-74.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:41:32 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 15:43:11 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.167] has joined #lisp 15:44:09 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@88-196-11-118-wifi.kjj.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 15:45:12 tirinim. 15:45:26 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-96.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:28 -!- vokoda``` [~user@host109-153-36-166.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:28 _ism [~frinnn@i59F62DD6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:53:51 vokoda``` [~user@host109-153-36-166.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:38 -!- sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:15 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:27 -!- biTT [~frinnn@i59F62DD6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:29 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@87-119-165-214.tll.elisa.ee] has joined #lisp 15:56:40 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:56:54 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@87-119-165-214.tll.elisa.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 15:57:25 sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 15:57:48 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:02 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@87-119-165-214.tll.elisa.ee] has joined #lisp 15:59:17 sysfault_ [exalted@c-68-36-149-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:32 tfb [~tfb@94.197.20.253.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:00:11 I need to use M-, more! 16:01:54 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:59 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:02:14 -!- sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:02:34 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nxczbaxwuypmvabs] has left #lisp 16:02:52 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.20.253.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 16:03:21 tfb [~tfb@94.197.20.253.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:04:15 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-iavynbzcwdvvepcf] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04:17 hargettp [~hargettp@mobile-166-137-136-239.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:29 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.20.253.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 16:05:02 tfb [~tfb@94.197.20.253.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:05:26 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05:38 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:52 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-41-219.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:06:00 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-41-219.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:48 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@mobile-166-137-136-239.mycingular.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:07:28 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:14 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:09:15 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 16:09:46 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 16:09:46 -!- sysfault_ [exalted@c-68-36-149-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:04 sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 16:13:52 deepfire: there's com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.package:add-nicknames to add nicknames if you need them. 16:13:58 -!- rien_ [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:13 I don't provide predefined nicknames, because that would nullify the point of using qualified package names. 16:14:33 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 16:14:39 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:14:41 rien_ [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:11 But mostly, I use add-nicknames only for the com.informatimago.common-lisp.html-generator.html package. (It may be nicknamed HTML or <). 16:16:34 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 16:17:38 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@158-9-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 16:17:50 gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 16:23:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:27:11 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:18 -!- fusss [~fusss@120.156.253.145] has left #lisp 16:38:47 milanj [~milanj_@77-46-250-209.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:39:38 WonTu [~WonTu@p57B55FAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:52 -!- WonTu [~WonTu@p57B55FAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 16:42:26 "the package formerly known as <" 16:42:45 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:44:11 pjb, thanks a lot, I was hoping to hear something like that 16:44:46 pjb, and yes, I completely understand the lack of nicknames 16:46:29 -!- quek [~ancient@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:33 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:49:58 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 16:53:40 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-47.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:53:44 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:54:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:25 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 16:58:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:59:47 merodach [~bagdemir@62.104.226.37] has joined #lisp 17:04:20 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:40 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #lisp 17:08:01 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:08:51 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:59 -!- hdurer_office [~hdurer@lo4.cfw-a-gci.london.yahoo.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:08:59 hdurer_office [~hdurer@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has joined #lisp 17:09:04 balooga [~00u4440@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:20 unkanon2 [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:38 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:09:39 -!- balooga [~00u4440@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:11:13 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:13:01 -!- rien_ [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:17:27 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:19:22 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:50 -!- gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:20:25 gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 17:20:31 Genosh|Off [~Genosh@32.Red-81-36-108.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:43 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:35 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@32.Red-81-36-108.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:23:50 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-tbwexlmiafdrhbkj] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:24:25 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:25:25 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.106.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:26:42 drdo [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:226:8ff:fef7:3d9e] has joined #lisp 17:28:36 kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has joined #lisp 17:28:45 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:29:27 http://www.scieneer.com/s/product/28571.html I wonder how many hours they permit staff to burn for each incident. 17:30:35 -!- milanj [~milanj_@77-46-250-209.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:31:21 thom_ [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:37 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-10-39.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:33:03 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:33:18 -!- unkanon2 is now known as rien_ 17:33:50 -!- gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:34:33 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-11.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:35:02 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-214-179.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:37:37 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:37:47 tmh [6367fcc4@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 17:37:53 Greetings lispers! 17:38:27 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755225.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:39 Bronsa [~BRACE@host245-174-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:38:54 GeneralMaximus [~general@122.163.246.88] has joined #lisp 17:39:29 hi 17:40:29 gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 17:41:05 HerbieB: i finished installing nekthuth, and am very pleased with it 17:43:27 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.20.253.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:11 thmzlt [~thomaz@24-217-48-63.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:13 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 17:46:49 I just figured out what problem ASDF-SYSTEM-CONNECTIONS solves. 17:47:24 what do people here think about LOL (the book, let over lambda)? 17:47:38 It's on my wishlist. 17:47:48 deepfire: a-s-c doesn't solve problems, it creates 17:47:57 -!- thom_ [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:48:08 ecraven: splittist liked it a lot 17:48:33 fe[nl]ix, how do you determine, beforehand, whether a system X 1) exists, and 2) will load succesfully? 17:48:41 ecraven: The samples I read were goofy at best and seemed damaging at worst, if they were your first source of Lisp information. 17:49:17 deepfire: you don't, you just add it as dependency 17:49:34 fe[nl]ix, what if I don't want to? 17:49:51 fe[nl]ix, note that this is _precisely_ the situation I find myself in, right now. 17:50:36 If you can (and want to) educate me to do better, I'm prepared : -) 17:50:48 Xach: splittist seemed to like it 17:51:18 Hrrrmm.. What was the thing with defparamater again. I should avoid using it? 17:51:22 deepfire: then you're left with a load mechanism that sometimes breaks and you don't understand why, because it works on your machine 17:51:27 schmrkc: ?? 17:51:37 antifuchs: is there an echo in here? 17:51:39 tcr: I seem to remember someone saying I should. 17:51:40 but maybe it was the whole goofiness that makes it so good (: 17:51:52 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has joined #lisp 17:52:04 fe[nl]ix, I understand the exponential blowup of potential configurations 17:52:04 Xach: not that I would notice. is there? 17:52:16 schmrkc: You might need to avoid it because it initializes stuff at load-time which is different form startup time in case you dump an image 17:52:25 antifuchs: well, I wrote "splittist liked it" and you wrote "splittist liked it"... 17:52:38 fe[nl]ix, and I don't especially defend A-S-C, especially so because I never used it 17:52:38 oh. whoops. I didn't see that line. 17:52:54 *antifuchs* thinks he should work on his irc client's font. 17:52:59 tcr: Oh hum. Well I just want a *game-world* to store a tile-array. To me personally DEFCONST makes sense, but someone suggested I should use defparameter. 17:53:19 I assume you know the difference between defvar and defparameter 17:53:21 deepfire: ok, I'll blog about it, maybe this evening 17:53:37 fe[nl]ix, but now desire determines uses external programs to determine available package transports 17:53:39 tcr: Tbh the only diff I know is the initialization differences. 17:53:43 (not to imply any connection to my first remark) 17:54:07 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.133.246] has joined #lisp 17:54:24 fe[nl]ix, suddenly I found myself wanting to use drakma as foundation for another transport 17:55:08 Yuuhi [benni@p5483ADA9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:21 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-180-2.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:55:51 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-180-2.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:13 fe[nl]ix, desire determines available package transports by checking existence of external programs (which were, up to now, the only means to access packages) 17:56:43 ping 17:56:47 pong 17:57:23 What is the usual naming convention for DEFCONSTANT? I tried a (defconstant *a* (make-array '(10 10)) and SBCL tells me this is unusual. 17:57:33 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:57:33 +name+ 17:57:37 ah right. 17:57:43 deepfire: so ? 17:57:47 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:58:06 fe[nl]ix, I don't want to predicate desire's availability upon availability of drakma 17:58:07 pattern: Oh, cool! 17:58:25 deepfire: add a hard dep on drakma. it's *that* simple 17:58:27 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:58:30 jdz [~jdz@host18-110-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:58:39 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:58:44 fe[nl]ix, no, no, reread what I wrote 17:58:50 schmrkc: you won't be able to use a constant with mutable structure very conveniently in sbcl. 17:59:06 Xach: No? 17:59:09 If I add a hard dep on drakma, I'll _exactly_ do something I don't want! 17:59:20 -!- sluggo [~chris@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:59:27 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-129-201.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 17:59:31 Xach: What is the inconvenient bit? 17:59:35 No drakma -> no desire -> bad! 17:59:45 schmrkc: You'll get an error that it's not eql the next time it's evaluated. Usually that's when you load it after compiling. 18:00:11 schmrkc: In SBCL, constants that are simple and eql are most convenient. 18:00:13 drakma works everywhere 18:00:17 Xach: Interesting. 18:00:30 deepfire: btw, on http://feelingofgreen.ru:3000/projects/executor, it's "Pfeil" not "Pheil" 18:00:36 Xach: I guess I'll go with the defvar for now then. 18:00:47 fe[nl]ix, thanks, rushing to fix! 18:00:49 defconstant is an optimization technique, and you know what they say about optimizations 18:00:52 HerbieB: yeah, thanks again for writing it... it's a really nice interface, works very smoothly, does virtually everything i need 18:01:11 stassats: To me it is not so much optimization here, it is just how my brain works. 18:01:20 HerbieB: it's also documented well... i can see you put a lot of effort in to it, and i appreciate it 18:01:41 schmrkc: but your brain is not a constant 18:01:42 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:01:44 schmrkc: I don't quite get why you would have an uninitialized array as a constant. How would you use it afterwards? 18:01:53 -!- gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Quit: battery very looow...] 18:02:03 stassats: :D 18:02:06 pattern: Thanks :) 18:02:07 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:12 Xach: With setf and aref pretty much. 18:02:16 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:02:23 minion: logs 18:02:42 pattern: Yay for docs. My boss laughed when he looked at them. "Why can't you document that well here?!" "Uhm...because no one writes or reads docs here?" 18:02:55 :) 18:02:57 schmrkc: If you modify it, in what way is it a constant? 18:03:02 stassats, why not regard explicit declaration of constantness as explicit declaration of constantness? 18:03:11 Xach: the blurb seems interesting.. 18:03:14 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:03:28 stassats, i.e. it's more than an optimisation technique -- it's a message to the reader. 18:03:29 HerbieB: i do have one little teensie tiny little feature request, though... it would be nice if it was possible to send any visually selected code to the repl, rather than just the current block the cursor is on 18:03:43 Xach: The fact that +game-array+ is always the one and same array. That's how my brain works anyway. 18:03:44 pattern: Yeah, just :LispDo (sexpr) 18:04:07 I think? 18:04:25 schmrkc: I don't think that is how defconstant is meant to be used. 18:04:31 deepfire: defconstant doesn't send such a message to me 18:04:32 schmrkc: even apart from the EQL/sameness issue 18:04:33 No, that's not it. Maybe I removed lispdo 18:04:37 Xach: Obviously I will change the contents of it as the game world changes. 18:04:55 it's more "oh, i'd have to recompile everything if i want to change it" 18:05:09 Oh, I did remove it 18:05:10 -!- Genosh|Off [~Genosh@32.Red-81-36-108.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: http://quasiquote.me] 18:05:18 a comment like "don't modify, danger of electrocution" would be a better message to me 18:05:19 stassats, oh, yes, there is a lot of this pain.. 18:05:21 HerbieB: E492: Not an editor command: '<,'>LispDo (sexpr) 18:05:31 pattern: Yeah, I think I removed it because it was unvimmy... To interactivey 18:05:32 Xach: Well you could very likely be right. 18:05:34 hm, afairemember hmac needs to keys, anybody have an idea why ironclad hmac accepts just one? 18:05:44 s/to/two/g 18:05:51 because few things are constants, like pi or e 18:05:59 stassats, maybe it should have been less of an optimisation technique, then 18:06:03 which you won't ever want to modify 18:06:03 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 18:06:05 pattern: How I actually do it is to write a commented line, and then send it. Because NekthuthSexp ignores ; if you are within the comment 18:06:05 schmrkc: That really sounds like it should be (defvar *game-array*) 18:06:08 HerbieB: it'd be useful for selecting a bunch of blocks 18:06:10 pattern: That way I save the code 18:06:15 Ooohh 18:06:21 v0|d: to keys? 18:06:24 schmrkc: and at the appropriate place it should be (let ((*game-array* (make-game-array 1024 1024))) ...) 18:06:30 tcr: Right. Just that rubs me the wrong way :) 18:06:36 Xach: h(k1||h(k2||message)) 18:06:37 stassats, after all it appears that the pain part comes out of the optimisation part, not out of the message part.. 18:06:43 schmrkc: hm, why? 18:06:44 HerbieB: another thing that'd be nice is to be able to send the contents of the entire buffer (to save having to select it all first) 18:06:50 pattern: Yeah, I can put that on the list. I actaully need a "compile and load local file" 18:06:55 v0|d: "two"? I think you're mistaken. 18:07:04 -!- kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has left #lisp 18:07:06 Xach: show me. 18:07:07 deepfire: optimization is always a trade-off 18:07:19 tcr: Well. To me it is a constant. That's all :) 18:07:29 pattern: Oh yeah, i wrote it as a plugin! 18:07:35 Xach: just got ironclad, dont know much about it. 18:07:35 pattern: http://nekthuth.com/plugins.html 18:07:43 HerbieB: also, this might just be a plain lisp thing i don't know.. but is there any way to clear the repl's memory of all the functions and symbols you've loaded? sort of the same as quitting and restarting the repl, but without doing so 18:07:43 v0|d: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2104 - see the Abstract 18:07:52 Xach: lemme. 18:08:13 pattern: If you are in nekthuth, but not remote, just do a NekthuthClose followed by a NekthuthOpen 18:08:18 HerbieB: wow.. you've got plugins for nekthuth?! that's awesome! :) 18:08:18 schmrkc, CL doesn't allow you to convey the constantness of a value in a non-painful way. 18:08:30 Xach: hm ok rfc dictates the use of k as k1 and k2 too. 18:08:35 deepfire: The value is not constant in his case 18:08:39 Xach: nice. 18:08:43 deepfire: The binding is constant 18:08:49 deepfire: I have no idea what you said there. 18:08:53 deepfire: (that's what he wants to express) 18:08:56 pattern: Yeah. I wanted to separate addon features from core features 18:09:05 tcr: Right. Exactly. 18:09:12 Well I'll go with var for now then. 18:09:35 HerbieB: you've got excellent design sense.. my hat is off to you, sir 18:09:38 tcr, the binding is an association between a name and a meaning, so it cannont be constant, if the value is not, no? 18:09:39 wanderingelf [~user@c-71-61-22-64.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:08 Oh, the EQ vs. EQUAL issue. 18:10:16 deepfire: char const* vs const char* (hope I got that right) 18:10:36 serichsen [~user@switch1.elmi.uni-bonn.de] has joined #lisp 18:10:39 Good evening! 18:11:14 HerbieB: also, i've got a little bug report for you... when opening vim on a lisp file "foo" for the first time, it complained: "/must>not&exist/foo:137: DeprecationWarning: os.popen4 is deprecated. Use the subprocess module." 18:11:15 Shallow vs. deep mutability. 18:11:37 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 18:12:00 pattern: Yeah. I get that too, these days. I once support python 2.2 or something because my previous job had only that installed (they were behind the times) 18:12:57 well, that's all the whining i have for you today... 18:13:03 thanks again for writing this! 18:14:22 -!- Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:16:19 what function will tell me whether one string is contained as a subsequence of another string? 18:17:08 clhs search 18:17:12 is there a way to see SBCL's IR representation for a function? I know I can use disassemble to see machine code, but what about the intermediate forms? 18:17:28 thanks antifuchs 18:18:08 jewel: compile it in a file, using :trace-file t 18:18:13 then you can see foo.trace 18:18:31 (there are other ways involving putting breakpoints on various functions) 18:19:02 -!- thmzlt [~thomaz@24-217-48-63.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:22:25 thmzlt [~thomaz@24-217-48-63.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:04 HerbieB: i guess i lied about not whining any more today... i must whine once more... i just installed the LispDo plugin, but it's not working... i'm still getting "E492: Not an editor command: '<,'>LispDo" when i visually select a region and type :LispDo 18:27:26 -!- vokoda``` [~user@host109-153-36-166.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:27:41 You restarted vim, i assume? 18:27:53 Whoops, I should change the doc 18:27:59 It apparently is NekthuthDo 18:28:24 ah 18:28:43 hmm.. "E492: Not an editor command: '<,'>NekthuthDo" 18:29:19 Yeah, I think I made it so you :NekthuthDo (print 'hi) 18:29:36 Not select and send 18:29:43 ah 18:29:45 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-180-2.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:29:55 hmm 18:30:13 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:30:23 i could probably make a vim binding to yank the visually selected text and then have the text pasted as an argument to NekthuthDo 18:30:56 Yeah, it woudl be better to just modify the load file plugin to yank selected rather than yanking the whole file 18:31:24 i think yanking selected text would be the more important feature of the two 18:31:43 the only reason i asked for the ability to yank an entire buffer is so that i'd just save having to select it first 18:31:51 also, it wouldn't lose my place in the file 18:32:09 but just being able to yank selected text and pass it to the repl would be a big help 18:32:26 btw, i got "E492: Not an editor command: NekthuthDo (print "hi")" 18:32:31 -!- dmytrish is now known as dmytrish__ 18:32:44 Try :NekthuthDo (print 'hi) 18:32:55 oops, i mistyped the lisp part of that 18:33:05 but even with the correction it still gives me the same error 18:33:26 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-214-179.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33:32 oh, i think i know what the problem is 18:33:41 And there's a file ~/.nekthuth/vim/lispdo.vim ? 18:33:42 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:59 i forget to open up a new shell after putting the NEKTHUTH_HOME variable in my .zshrc 18:34:06 so this other shell i'm running vim in doesn't see it yet 18:34:10 Ahhh, yeah 18:34:22 sorry 18:34:25 wild goose chase.. 18:34:34 It's all good 18:35:31 aggh.. it still gives me the same error 18:36:24 So vim is obviously not loading those .vim files 18:36:37 contents of $NEKTHUTH_HOME -> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/318432/ 18:36:58 Did you install the file from a shell that didn't have it set? 18:37:21 it was set 18:37:23 Hm, that's weird. THe installation should have put the vim fil in the vim directory, and the lisp file in the lisp directory 18:37:32 i'd tried putting them there myself 18:37:37 and it still didn't work 18:37:37 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:37:38 Would you consider discussing it privately? Not that it's off-topic, but it seems to be only you two. 18:37:56 but that was when i hadn't realized the shell i was running vim from didn't have $NEKTHUTH_HOME set 18:38:01 Xach: Oh, sure, sorry. 18:38:04 so i put them back 18:38:08 Xach: sorry 18:38:11 we'll take it elsewhere 18:38:13 No problem. 18:38:15 you're absolutely right 18:38:18 Just #nekthuth 18:38:30 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-194-43.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 18:38:34 any others having problems giving sbcl as lisp-backend to maxima, but start it without including the .sbclrc initfile ? 18:39:25 i couldn't pass -with-sbcl='sbcl --no-sysinit --no-userinit ....to the configure script somehow it errors.... 18:39:34 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:40:57 -!- serichsen [~user@switch1.elmi.uni-bonn.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 18:41:22 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:44:30 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 18:47:50 carlocci [~nes@93.37.208.197] has joined #lisp 18:50:54 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@87-119-165-214.tll.elisa.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 18:51:21 old blog mentionned in #scheme: someone "accidentally discovers lisp:" . 18:59:31 pjb, I'm preparing a simple SBCL-related fix for cesarum 18:59:56 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:01:16 -!- GeneralMaximus [~general@122.163.246.88] has quit [Quit: See you in another life.] 19:01:42 pjb, sent 19:02:36 pjb, what do you think of the symbol-in-missing-package-error-and-restarts patch, btw? 19:05:44 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 19:07:59 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.167] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 19:09:50 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:09:53 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.217] has joined #lisp 19:13:03 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:14:38 sh10151 [~sh10151@132-174-132-129.ip.oclc.org] has joined #lisp 19:15:25 benny` [~benny@i577A2D38.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:16 I've got a quicklisp/uffi question -- what's the best way to configure nonstandard paths for C libraries? A PostgreSQL installer put its stuff in /Library/PostgreSQL/9.0 , and (ql:quickload "clsql-postgresql") doesn't seem to find them 19:19:55 sh10151: I wish I knew, that's more of an UFFI thing from what I can tell. 19:20:12 or maybe it can be controlled via the environment somehow. 19:20:15 All right, at least that helps me know which layer to look at 19:20:33 Thanks 19:20:55 and thanks for quicklisp too :) 19:21:05 Are you deeply in love with clsql? Postmodern is pretty handy and works without foreign libraries. 19:21:46 no, not deeply in love, just coming back to Common Lisp-land after a few years 19:22:07 Postmodern is "new" (younger than a few years) and pretty nice. 19:22:19 -!- benny` is now known as benny 19:22:22 Common Lisp interpreter written in PHP hmmm 19:22:30 I'll check it out -- thanks 19:23:05 It's postgresql-only. 19:23:16 *qfr* uses PostgreSQL only 19:23:24 Though someone wrote a very similar (ffi-using) interface to MS SQL Server. 19:23:56 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.146.31] has joined #lisp 19:23:57 I can't even remember why I switched from MySQL to Postgres, recently I used MySQL again and I was annoyed by how it required extensions to set up pg_hba style trusted auth 19:24:32 Is Postgres popular with the CL community? 19:24:46 prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has joined #lisp 19:24:54 Is it preferred the competition? 19:24:55 Wildly popular. It's in the top 5 databases used. 19:24:59 Is it preferred over* the competition? 19:25:04 Very funny :p 19:25:19 I don't think anyone has surveyed to find out. 19:25:24 PostgreSQL is a great system, in my opinion 19:25:44 I like to use PostgreSQL, but I've seen lichtblau talk about using Oracle, and other people talk about other databases. 19:26:25 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:37 I like how the postgres developers are really careful about their durability promises. gives you confidence (: 19:26:52 ah yes, there's also Web 3.0's database. 19:27:08 *Xach* can't remember who won the license at ILC 19:27:22 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-144.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 19:27:41 sh10151 what would you say are the major advantages over MySQL, which is the most popular open source DBMS? The only things I can think of right now are the convenience of pg_hba and not having to think of stuff like MyISAM vs. InnoDB etc (although the latter point could also be considered a disadvantage, lack of specialisation for tables or whatever) 19:28:05 Xach: agraph? :) 19:28:26 adeht: Exactly. 19:29:07 qfr: better query optimizer, richer support for types, domains, and procedural languages 19:29:15 and postgres was written lisp initially 19:29:37 stassats: That makes for a lousy acronym. 19:29:58 qfr: Postgres has many, many more features from the "hi-end" spectrum 19:30:27 p_l|backup yeah I've heard several claims that Postgres has more of an Oracle feeling to it in many of its features 19:30:45 Does anyone have a recommendation on a library to use if I want to paint a 2D canvas in real time (i.e., the user sees the canvas in real time; there isn't a final image that's generated)? 19:30:48 I don't know Oracle and my use cases are probably so primitive I wouldn't even notice any difference 19:31:13 Quadrescence: lispbuilder-sdl, perhaps, or maybe cl-glut. 19:31:16 including built-in paritioning, object-relational schema instead of just relational, proper handling of relational constraints instead of "fuck them" (changed later, but MySQL 3.x didn't care about FOREIGN etc - according to documentation "it served little other than to draw nice graphs in some apps") 19:31:28 what you run into is that some application developers believe database systems should essentially just be key-lookup data stores with better-than-average durability 19:32:21 sh10151: for that, we have very good databases... like Tokyo/Kyoto Cabinet, BDB, etc. (well, how good they are is discussable, but they are more oriented towards that) 19:32:33 from what I've seen acache/agraph look very cool, though I have no experience with them 19:32:59 Xach: Thanks, I 19:33:05 ll look into the former 19:33:07 <> <- hahaha 19:33:28 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 19:33:36 others consider them to be sophisticated engines for ensuring consistency and quickly returning results of complex queries expressed in relational algebra 19:33:37 sh10151: Do they use at least use transactions? 19:33:47 -use 19:34:15 Xach: hm, maybe Vecto combined with it would be nice 19:34:17 I've subscribed to the notion that databases are overrated and you should just manage everything in memory. But, I'm successful with that only because it fits my use cases and I can fake persistence by dumping a core file. 19:34:34 qfr: given that a big chunk of users of MySQL were people who barely scratched PHP, not to mention SQL, or later on Rails guys where ActiveRecord claimed that data consistency was responsibility of the application's model layer, well... 19:34:39 qfr: who? unfortunately in my experience developers often use too many transactions when one or none will do, and don't concern themselves with transactions when they really should 19:35:07 to be honest the solid-state storage should really turn a lot of the database management world on its head 19:35:09 Quadrescence: vecto is pretty slow. It would be neat to have something that could do in hardware what vecto does in software. 19:35:30 Quadrescence: I mean, it's fast enough for small toys, but realtime updates of screen-sized things are sluggish. 19:35:38 the big names have been skating on having impressive disk-based indexing and access methods 19:35:41 Xach: Yeah, definitely (@ hardware) 19:35:53 sh10151: it didn't. It works as impressive cache, though 19:36:18 sh10151: Oh? I thought EEPROM based stuff was useless for database stuff 19:36:30 sh10151: what is truly more interesting (IMHO), would be a hw-assisted content-addressable storage 19:36:39 qfr: he was thinking of Flash, I bet 19:37:03 gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:05 Flash is a type of EEPROM 19:37:23 -!- splittist [~John@149-50.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 19:37:27 qfr: yes, but it's erasible in fast enough way to be useful 19:37:31 I thought it was largely useless because of the very finite number of writes that stuff can deal with? 19:37:44 I worked at a company where we had some hi-end flash-backed fast caches 19:37:45 Doesn't it wear out within months when it's heavily loaded? 19:37:52 Interesting, I had no idea 19:37:56 qfr: depends on the kind of flash you get 19:38:00 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.197.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:38:35 I thought high performance database stuff used arrays of high RPM HDDs and lots and lots of RAM 19:38:58 qfr: they do, but they might not have to 19:39:08 the consumer stuff would die fast if accessed without proper mapping layer... OTOH, databases use those caches mainly for indexes and logs, which coupled with some mapping gives much lower erase count 19:39:45 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.206.155] has joined #lisp 19:39:53 qfr: google for "ramsan", it's used quite frequently to speed up databases, especially since it can be shared easily unlike RAM 19:40:24 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 19:40:28 also, it can be easily used as fast quorum space 19:40:29 I recall log-structured systems being nice to flash-based storage 19:41:00 Quick poll: who here has tried to implement a regexp engine? 19:41:04 (In any language) 19:42:19 gigamonkey: C++ 19:42:27 A very simple one in school.... it was C+++ 19:42:29 It was ugly 19:42:55 gigamonkey: hi 19:42:58 hi ppl 19:43:11 gigamonkey: are you looking for a cow-worker in italy? 19:43:21 Mooo! 19:43:27 mooooooooo 19:43:47 To milk the "cows"? 19:44:08 no to feed a poor engineer 19:44:17 to feed all the monkeys 19:44:31 gigamonkey: <- 19:44:56 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-119.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 19:44:59 stassats, gigamonkey : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo9riZYUpTw 19:46:52 shock the gigamonkey 19:46:56 Hey! 19:47:31 pkhuong: sorry, to cryptic for me. 19:47:33 too 19:47:34 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has left #lisp 19:47:49 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-144.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:48:24 gigamonkey: !help 19:48:41 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-144.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 19:49:24 http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/games/spankthemonkey 19:49:30 (flash warning) 19:50:03 gigamonkey: that was a yes. 19:50:23 Ginei_Morioka: are you from venice? 19:51:53 (I thought the link was appropriate) 19:54:59 Quadrescence: 278 mph 19:55:06 Posterdati: http://i.imgur.com/yEpNj.png 19:55:49 lol you cheated 19:55:56 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #lisp 19:56:08 Posterdati: no i just use lisp 19:56:17 lol 19:56:26 how did you manage the spanking hand? 19:57:02 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.146.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:57:19 Posterdati: Please discuss monkey-spanking privately. 19:57:21 Using parentheses in the way players handle the ball in jai-alai 19:57:25 Xach: haha 19:57:35 lol 19:57:43 Quadrescence: like Skiena did? 19:58:14 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-47.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:59:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:00:09 gigamonkey: what about learning c++? 20:02:37 Posterdati: what about it? 20:02:39 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-ff2fc100-74.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 20:03:04 I think that might fall under the prohibited topic of monkey abuse. 20:03:10 gigamonkey: I'm impressed about ken tompson stoy :) 20:03:13 gigamonkey: I'm impressed about ken tompson story :) 20:04:47 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755225.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:49 serichsen [~user@f049176051.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:07 Hi again! 20:05:57 hi 20:06:02 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:07:58 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has joined #lisp 20:09:15 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has quit [Client Quit] 20:09:37 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 20:09:56 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Client Quit] 20:11:52 -!- hcb [~user@unaffiliated/hcb] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:12:30 tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.14.30] has joined #lisp 20:13:31 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:14:03 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d9cb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:34 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-144.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:14:50 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 20:15:46 Xach: Maybe this might be worth adding to QL: http://www.frank-buss.de/lisp/canvas.html 20:17:47 hi 20:17:55 Quadrescence: it will be difficult as-is because it's windows-only. 20:18:02 Xach: oh, then nevermind 20:18:02 Quadrescence: I don't have a way to automatically build and test it yet. 20:18:45 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-144.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:19:02 Genosh [~Genosh@158.Red-88-15-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:07 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:22:35 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:25:49 astoon [~astoon@178.130.1.36] has joined #lisp 20:27:05 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-144.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:27:15 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.142.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 20:28:05 francogrex [~user@109.130.175.49] has joined #lisp 20:29:56 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-10-39.iburst.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:03 Hello prxq. 20:30:15 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-10-39.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:30:27 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-10-39.iburst.co.za] has left #lisp 20:30:37 hi tmh 20:30:38 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 20:30:50 Xach: Is quicklisp intended to replace the need to use ASDF to load packages? i.e., is ql:quickload supposed to be used even after you've downloaded packages? 20:31:00 Quadrescence: That's how I use it. 20:31:16 Quadrescence: It needs more polish, but that's the general idea. 20:31:35 Quadrescence: you can use quickload on things that weren't obtained via quicklisp, too. Like local projects you just wrote. 20:31:42 Neat 20:31:44 -!- karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:32:17 I'm using ql:quickload also on locally made projects as well now 20:32:49 karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:52 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:57 Xach: is gigamonkey a bot? 20:33:19 Posterdati: fails the reverse Turing test. Or is it me who failed? 20:33:44 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-194-43.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:33:52 Posterdati: he's a rather advanced bot, to be sure 20:34:05 Posterdati: Do you think gigamonkey is a bot? 20:34:06 he's a bot who writes books 20:34:10 gigamonkey: the searle conjecture 20:34:32 I like that as a title of a film. "Gigamonkey: the Searle conjecture" 20:34:35 I'd go and see that one 20:34:40 if I could sort the babysitting 20:35:19 you could hire the gigamonkey bot. 20:35:26 *francogrex* still wonders where minion is 20:35:47 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-122-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:49 it could be like the film Pi 20:35:55 or "the way of the exploding Cantor" 20:36:19 too much noise, not enough hacking 20:36:39 gigamonkey being chased down by stockbrokers and orthodox jews for mystical rites 20:36:47 or maybe I have to say "Can't OR" 20:36:57 indeed 20:37:00 spacebat, drill a hole in your head? 20:37:24 I wasn't going to mention that... it was a... suboptimal solution 20:38:22 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:47 Xach: Does QL need to explicitly be told about local projects, or will it automagically locate them? 20:38:50 so I just woke up, and in the haze I wondered, does CL evaluate the first element of an expression like the rest 20:39:10 like ((symbol-function '+) 2 3) 20:39:13 spacebat: and then you realized: noooooooo 20:39:21 why doesn't that work? 20:39:25 Quadrescence: If they can be found via asdf, they can be quickloaded. It's a matter of setting up your asdf registry. I set mine up so everything under ~/src/lisp/ is scanned for .asd files. 20:39:28 I place them in softwares along with other downloaded quicklisp software 20:39:59 Xach: this means I probably need to read asdf documentation :S 20:39:59 spacebat: basically because it doesn't. To make a long story short, it makes implementors life a little easier 20:40:01 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-76-231.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:40:19 Quadrescence: you could just read http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html 20:40:24 prxq: You could argue it makes coders' lives easier too 20:40:24 ok, well funcall does make it a little more readable too 20:40:26 spacebat: it could have been specified to work 20:40:36 spacebat, http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 20:40:40 sabalaba_ [~sabalaba@67-194-112-119.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 20:40:48 thanks 20:41:18 I like that the first element isn't evaluated. That's the true lisp way, keeping things true ASTs, not phony ones where the root of an ast is itself an ast 20:41:22 (it's rather long.) 20:41:25 spacebat: when I use a lot of funcalls, I use a nifty with-funcalls macro that defines (foo (&rest args) (apply foo args)) if the function is in foo 20:41:30 Quadrescence, huh? 20:42:08 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.146.31] has joined #lisp 20:42:17 tic: I am rambling, but I am saying you always have (ROOT-IDENT leaves...), where ROOT-IDENT isn't itself a tree 20:42:20 i'd rather say it is not the 110% lisp way, where arbitrary limitations are mostly shunned. 20:43:18 but i can live with that. 20:43:50 prxq: 110% lisp would be requiring FUNCALL with every single function 20:43:56 you're lucky they didn't require that!! 20:44:13 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 20:44:48 according to the personality test in Land of Lisp, I'm more suited for scheme 20:44:50 -!- cmm- [~cmm@109.65.200.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:44:56 but it was a short test :) 20:45:10 <_3b> Quadrescence:particularly since funcall is a function 20:45:13 cmm [~cmm@109.65.200.120] has joined #lisp 20:45:20 _3b, but a special fomr? 20:45:22 -!- sabalaba_ [~sabalaba@67-194-112-119.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 20:45:32 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:45:47 I translated Norvig's spell checker. It's 100 lines of Lisp vs 25 lines of Python 20:45:49 spacebat: I'm sure it is worthwhile to learn scheme too, if one has the time 20:45:58 Yay.. 20:46:03 tic: let's see! 20:46:10 tic: easy, just concatenate the lines 20:46:14 tic: translated from Py to CL? 20:46:17 adeht: haha 20:46:18 bet you can't do that in python 20:46:21 prxq, yeah. 20:46:21 prxq: yes definitely 20:46:47 tic: Exctract code. put in libraries. use library. code looks shorter. 20:46:57 I wish that tail calls and call/cc were part of the CL spec 20:47:02 tic: what is the reason? 20:47:09 schmrkc, already did that. I'll have to see why it's longer. 20:47:11 *hmmm 20:47:33 tic: put in barkbröd. 20:47:36 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.175.49] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:02 spacebat: it turns out that call/cc do not play well with other features, most notably the condition system. That's also somewhere in Kent Pitman's page. 20:48:45 it is also a fairly heavyweight and disruptive feature. A thermonuclear goto, of sorts. 20:49:02 fair enough, both very worthy features 20:49:52 spacebat: Well, I'm pretty sure any sane implementor of CL will implement your standard TCO 20:50:17 Quadrescence: until you set debug to 3 :) 20:50:22 that's not a good assumption. 20:50:28 prxq: why not? 20:50:47 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:02 Quadrescence: because it is not necessary. SBCL did not have much of it for a very long time. IIRC. 20:52:19 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:21 That may be true, but I can't imagine SBCL/CMUCL not having TCO early on. 20:52:37 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.142.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 20:52:58 Quadrescence: once you have expressive enough loop constructs, you do not really need TCO. 20:55:08 That is mostly true, but I still don't see that as a reason not to have it. I think named-LET/TCO are great ways to do iteration without mucking up code too much with loops and what have you 20:55:31 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-17-240-55.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:56:09 Quadrescence: there is a cost to getting it right, and that can be a reason not to have it. 20:56:10 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.142.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 20:56:35 what does TCO stand for? 20:56:40 tail call optimization 20:56:44 Quadrescence: I am not against TCO. But in any case, it is neither portable nor guaranteed. 20:56:47 thanks Quadrescence 20:57:06 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-165-86.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:34 portability schmortability 20:57:50 prxq: Right. Just to be the devil's advocate, the host machine isn't guaranteed to have more than 640K RAM and the sun isn't guaranteed to rise tomorrow. :( 20:58:06 And if implementors have read LiSP/Norvig/whatever else, they should see it's not particularly difficult to add, though it's possible it might mess other parts of CL, but I can't think of any. 20:58:07 lol 20:58:31 https://github.com/mikaelj/snippets/blob/master/lisp/spellcheck/spellcheck.lisp 20:58:47 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-168-252.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:58:56 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:00:26 haha " 1e6 times faster than the Python version on a Quad Xeon 2,6 GHz. " 21:00:45 but three times longer!! 21:00:52 Yeah. 21:01:15 well, it's actually just 49-6 lines = about twice as long. 21:01:40 yeah terrible, python is way more expressive and succinct and therefore better for coding 21:02:13 quad eh.. 21:02:13 I can make it slightly less readable by joining the LOOP lines together. I'm down to 26 lines then. I win. :-) 21:02:18 no way to parallelize it? 21:02:29 make it suppafast! 21:02:34 Is the offending code in spellcheck.lisp? 21:02:39 tmh, yes 21:03:25 tic: Well, doing "nconcing xyz into replaces", etc, wouldn't make it less readable I don't think 21:04:07 tic: it looks good. I presume a lot of overhead comes from the verbose loops. And I am not sure that is a bad thing. 21:04:14 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:39 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:44 prxq, indeed it is. I'd like something more concise like the list comprehensions. But it's not unreadable. 21:05:02 antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-sbownzjsiljzdnvq] has joined #lisp 21:05:02 the python one sure has nice things to replace the loops. 21:05:14 *adeht* awaits the perl oneliner 21:05:15 yeah. 21:05:22 tic: sounds like it's time to ... implement list comprehensions!! 21:05:30 adeht: It's haskell oneliners! it is 2010! 21:05:40 is it 2010? :O 21:05:42 2011 here 21:05:46 oh right 21:05:49 it is 2011! 21:05:56 haskell was so last year 21:05:57 linux on the desktop, etc. 21:06:49 Actually now I wonder, are there any solid list comprehension libs? 21:06:52 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 21:07:04 for scheme there are 21:07:11 tic: Btw. the norvig.com url in your code seems to malfunction :) 21:07:39 rien_: Are there? I don't ever recall there being solid comprehension code 21:07:43 oh bummer. thanks. 21:07:43 schmrkc: maybe I should've said APL/J/K/Q/... oneliner ;) 21:07:44 Quadrescence: i think there are. There was one mentioned in reddit a few days ago, but no idea. 21:07:55 I know I've seen small list comprehension hacks 21:08:06 adeht: well, apl is realy a little out of fashion... 21:08:07 done. 21:08:33 Who was it in here who was abusing the lisp reader to accept mathematical expressions and unicode? 21:08:38 Quadrescence: http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/list-of?action=show 21:08:43 prxq: but counting lines isn't? shame 21:08:43 Quadrescence: maxima? 21:08:45 http://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/ey04z/implementation_of_a_lisp_comprehension_macro/ 21:09:14 adeht: indeed :-) 21:09:25 wrong language and it's ugly. 21:10:05 schmrkc: No, someone in here was using unicode symbols to replace some functions, like ¬(x  y) 21:10:16 Quadrescence: Oh right. 21:11:00 ok enough code done for today. 21:11:10 tic: the scheme in the first comment wasn't the intention of the link :-) 21:11:19 -!- Bronsa [~BRACE@host245-174-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:11:29 Quadrescence: yeah they had a link to a pastie 21:11:29 prxq, oh 21:11:34 rather the reddit link, and the (incf cl) link at the bottom 21:11:39 metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has joined #lisp 21:11:47 -!- prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:29 rien_: Oh yeah, I forgot about list-of. Kind of meh tho, whatever, bla bloo bla bla 21:12:35 _danb_ [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:12:36 prxq, no incf cl link? 21:12:44 -!- drdo [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:226:8ff:fef7:3d9e] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:12:46 http://superadditive.com/software/incf-cl/ 21:13:02 Quadrescence: it works for my basic needs and I can use it just like I use them in haskell, but I never tried doing super-advanced stuff with them 21:13:13 tic: there :-) I just noticed it. I looked at the pdf it the main reddit link, and moved on. 21:13:50 ah, thanks. 21:13:58 Quadrescence: I have a gift for you 21:14:01 rien_: Well, it's a little bulky is all 21:14:12 Quadrescence: it was stassats: https://gist.github.com/767289 21:14:33 haha, damn that stassats, always getting into trouble 21:14:54 xavierHart [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/xavierhart] has joined #lisp 21:15:50 ziga` [~user@BSN-176-221-52.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:59 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:19 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 21:18:02 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:26 mascotte [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-74-159.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:19:38 kruft [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:19 -!- ziga` [~user@BSN-176-221-52.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:27:33 deepestthought42 [~user@HSI-KBW-109-193-077-227.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:27:52 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:02 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:29:54 -!- adhoc [~adhoc@ppp118-210-132-42.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:31:31 -!- Amadiro [~customer@ti0021a380-dhcp3386.bb.online.no] has left #lisp 21:32:57 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@158.Red-88-15-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: http://quasiquote.me] 21:34:00 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.146.31] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34:21 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.146.31] has joined #lisp 21:34:41 thom_ [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:56 steven segal/skiena on rete 4 21:35:29 -!- ivenkys [~ivenkys@unaffiliated/ivenkys] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:36:22 -!- astoon [~astoon@178.130.1.36] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:36:23 wbruschi [~user@c-24-61-114-60.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:48 he's killing almost every c++ programmer 21:36:55 me included 21:36:58 ? 21:36:59 Sikander [~userid@5356F49F.cm-6-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 21:37:42 Posterdati: What are you talking about? 21:38:01 steven segal on tv 21:38:43 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:39:12 I'd prefer C++ programmers killed by "kill bill" killer. 21:40:05 How unnice it would be with them all dead. 21:40:06 or rather, waken up by folks with sunglasses in longcoats handing them colored pills. 21:40:06 it is better use naked hands 21:40:26 schmrkc: we'd still have to deal with php and java programmers :-) 21:40:44 pjb: It'd be horrid if someone killed off the java programmers too. 21:41:03 We could still deal with php and C# programmers ;-) 21:41:07 php = Pervert with Head of a Pig 21:41:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:41:19 Pig Headed Perverts? 21:41:20 well we could live without the php people. 21:41:36 schmrkc: well, now there's a Lisp to PHP compiler... 21:42:08 PHP = Please Hange them Proudly 21:42:52 I have a question about case. The CLHS says that t and otherwise cannot be used as designators, and (t) and (otherwise) should be used instead. It makes no mention of nil. In SBCL however, nil falls through unless the designator (nil) is used. this is NOT mentioned in the hyperspec. 21:42:54 Good morning everyone! 21:43:00 hi beach 21:43:07 unkanon2 [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:07 os not morning hear 21:43:12 is not morning here 21:43:21 So the question is, is SBCL's behaviour not following the hyperspec? 21:43:23 must be an HTML coder 21:43:32 Hi Beach 21:43:39 morning beach 21:44:17 Sikander: Does it say it say the SBCL behaviour is prohibited? 21:44:46 -!- rien_ [~unkanon@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:44:55 -!- unkanon2 is now known as rien_ 21:45:31 Sikander: It has to do with the definition of "designator for a list of objects". 21:45:39 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.208.197] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 21:45:59 schmrkc: It says that only t and otherwise must use designators (t) and (otherwise). Other than that, it seems that it implies that any symbol can be used as a designator. 21:46:17 Hmmm... 21:46:43 Sikander: nil is a bona fide list. 21:46:48 Sikander: For a singleton atom to be a designator for a list, it has to be non-nil. 21:47:15 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.146.31] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:47:17 Hmm... 21:47:19 Sikander: So, as pkhuong says, when nil is used, it designates the empty list. 21:47:56 From the hyperspec: These macros allow the conditional execution of a body of forms in a clause that is selected by matching the test-key on the basis of its identity. 21:48:08 does this mean that nil is not identical to nil? 21:48:22 Because that is the only way that it could fall through the case. 21:48:42 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:48:44 Sikander: Should I start over? It has to do with the definition of "designator for a list of objects". 21:48:50 (if I understand the clhs) 21:48:53 Sikander: list designator n. a designator for a list of objects; that is, an object that denotes a list and that is one of: a non-nil atom (denoting a singleton list whose element is that non-nil atom) or a proper list (denoting itself). 21:48:58 Sikander: For a singleton atom to be a designator for a list, it has to be non-nil. 21:49:01 NIL is a proper list. 21:49:11 it denotes itself, the empty list. 21:49:59 ah, ok. thanks. 21:51:30 actually there is an example of nil versus (nil) in the clhs 21:53:02 Soulman1 [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:22 beach: Ah, I hadn't seen your initial reply. 21:55:17 -!- wbruschi [~user@c-24-61-114-60.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:57:52 wbruschi [~user@c-24-61-114-60.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:40 Hi Sikander 22:00:45 LiamH: Hi. One sec, I'm on the phone... 22:01:26 -!- wbruschi [~user@c-24-61-114-60.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:02:42 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 22:03:46 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:03:52 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:13 LiamH: Hi. So I've tried the declarations. It requires some heavy rewriting of the test functions 22:04:30 LiamH: the fft test functions, that is... 22:04:53 Sikander: OK. Any suggestions on how to change GSLL so that that's less of a burden? 22:05:50 Not really. I think the problem is that the test functions were not made element-type-specific, so you can't put any type declarations. 22:06:13 In a realistic program, this would never happen (if you want faster performance) 22:06:17 Yeah. Maybe a macro might help? 22:06:57 In a realistic program, declarations shouldn't be a huge burden (presuming you'd just stick with one element type). 22:07:01 That's what I'm working on :D As long as there's no rush, it helps me in writing and understanding macros 22:07:03 -!- sh10151 [~sh10151@132-174-132-129.ip.oclc.org] has quit [Quit: sh10151] 22:07:38 Yes, in a realistic program, you would probably never write your function as unspecific as the tests are. 22:07:54 However, in a realistic program, you'd probably not use gsl's fft :D 22:08:17 Except for me :-) I'm lazy so I don't put declarations in unless it will really help speed it up. 22:08:27 Yeah. 22:08:40 Yeah, that's true. Also, for one-shot calculations, I never bother. 22:09:11 Since I was looking into fftw bindings, I had a question about foreign array. 22:09:40 If you use make-foreign-array to make an array, how can you get to the pointer to pass it to a cffi'd function? 22:09:46 OK; btw have you looked at cl-fftw3? I noticed this exists (it's in quicklisp) but not looked at it. 22:10:22 I'll have to check; I don't remember exactly. 22:10:29 Haven't looked at it yet, since I'm playing with foreign arrays now :D 22:13:28 I saw that there is a reader foreign-pointer, which is not exported. But grid::foreign-pointer seems to work. Should I use that, or am I then bypassing some sort of interface? 22:13:51 Yes, that's it, I just found it. 22:14:01 I'm surprised it's not exported, I will export it. 22:14:29 timor [~timor@port-92-195-122-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:14:31 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 22:14:45 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: later!] 22:15:25 LiamH: Also, do you have any information of gsll on windows? 22:15:31 -!- deepestthought42 [~user@HSI-KBW-109-193-077-227.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #lisp 22:15:40 Sikander: information? 22:15:54 LiamH: Erm, does it work? Not work? Never tested but should work... 22:16:50 If all the components are supported, it should work. I think Mirko was trying to do it with CLISP in mingw. I think you need some kind of GNU emulator because of GSL. 22:17:12 But I'm not a windows person. 22:18:10 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:18:11 GSL for windows, last change 11 July 2006, ugh. 22:18:20 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 22:18:22 jonte [~jonte@oiuvbty.ght.sgsnet.se] has joined #lisp 22:18:34 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-76-231.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:19:57 LiamH: I was just wondering, because my data collection computer is running 32-bit windows, and it would be convenient to also be able to manipulate that data on the same computer. 22:20:46 LiamH: But the only thing really required is gsd, to access the foreign arrays. 22:20:48 Makes sense to me. I just can't help much with windows. 22:20:51 Sikander: there are some linux distros that run natively under windows 22:21:15 -!- cvandusen [~user@68-90-30-246.ded.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: later] 22:21:30 prxq: Really? With access to all the peripherals? 22:21:34 Sikander: so you can run a linux instance in windows. I don't know about exchange of data though 22:21:38 Sikander: I think so 22:22:26 Sikander: http://www.colinux.org/ 22:22:37 never used it, though 22:23:05 prxq: I see, thanks. I might have a look at that. 22:23:29 LiamH: Ok, if I find some weird things, I'll submit #+windows patches. 22:24:34 LiamH: Oh, by the way, regarding the fft tests. I'm going the way of macros now... 22:24:52 but I was wondering if generic functions would be a better approach? 22:24:54 Sikander: foreign-pointer is defined in foreign-array, as a slot accessor. I'm going to export it, but this won't show up for a while because I've transferred grid and foreign array to a new system which is not yet released. 22:25:24 LiamH: Ok, no problem. I can use grid::foreign-pointer as long as I know I'm not doing anything nasty. 22:25:40 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:25:40 Sikander: you'll have to be more specific. Macros, generic functions for what? 22:26:10 Sikander: It's definitely the "public" access to the pointer, it should be exported. 22:26:49 -!- antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-sbownzjsiljzdnvq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:41 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:11 what about the lisp conferences, are ordinary people allowed to just visit them? 22:28:15 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-41-219.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:33 or does that require to sign up or so ? 22:28:46 homie: no, they have signs saying "your beard must be at least this long to participate" now 22:29:00 lol 22:29:22 there are also frailty criteria you have to match 22:29:24 Neck-beard allowed? 22:29:27 homie: depends on the organizer. Normally, signup is required for most confs, lisp or otherwise 22:29:30 neck beard required. 22:29:35 ah, ok 22:29:35 ok 22:29:37 definitively 22:29:56 homie: and you have to pay the conference fee 22:30:04 I tried getting in with just a mustache, they weren't fooled 22:30:04 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:30:15 there are discounts for students 22:30:20 (most of the time) 22:30:21 aaah 22:30:31 and non students or so can't ? 22:30:51 non-students and professionals can pay the conference fee (: 22:31:07 is that too much ? 22:31:08 but if you can't afford it and really want to go, maybe email the organizers. they might make an exception? 22:31:14 or submit a paper and get it accepted (: 22:31:16 homie: and if you are not a student, you are a professional :-) 22:31:42 ok 22:32:00 I've googled and found that mcclim should work under windows using clisp and xming. Anyone with first-hand experience? Does one need to be good at jumping through hoops, or does it just work (TM)? 22:32:05 Sikander: There may be symbol conflict issues because there's a cffi:foreign-pointer too. 22:32:06 having a paper accepted normally does not influence wether you pay or not 22:32:14 if you are invited you don't pay 22:32:31 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d9cb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:32:57 LiamH: Ah, ok. Well, I don't care if you export it or not. It would however make a good addition to the docs :D 22:33:29 Sikander: might Just Work, but don't expect things like multiprocessing to wrok 22:33:43 Sikander: Well my intent is to export it, and un-use :cffi in GSLL. Generally, I like to keep packages explicit. 22:34:02 antifuchs: you mean like threading? 22:34:09 exactly threading. 22:34:19 LiamH: Yeah, that makes sense. 22:34:33 things like having a repl available while your clim application runs and stuff 22:34:51 antifuchs: Right. I guess I'll just have to give it a try. 22:35:02 please do and report success / failure 22:35:12 I hadn't thought to try mcclim on windows before 22:35:40 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:35:55 Well, I like the clim approach of presentations to make gui's. Or at least, I think I do. I still haven't written too many gui's to be sure :) 22:37:55 it definitely makes it easy to make a gui quickly 22:38:40 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 22:38:42 I like the idea of splitting up GUIs in components much like apps, instead of being spaghetti, code-flow-wise, as you usually get w/ tightly-ish couple GUIs e.g. gtk 22:38:45 coupled. 22:39:13 I like the fact that classes can be presented and edited easily, with different presentations, and kept up-to-date. 22:39:27 (or, to be precise, instances) 22:39:36 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:39:52 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:48 LiamH: I saw that there are antik and experimental branches in gsll. Anything I should worry about/commit to regarding FFT? 22:41:27 Sikander: You're on to me :-) Nope, carry on. I'll merge when the appropriate time comes. 22:41:29 what I don't like about it is that you can't easily design a gui. it works best for the hypertext-with-graphics lisp listener approach 22:41:40 -!- thmzlt [~thomaz@24-217-48-63.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:41:47 but once you need widgets, you run into walls. lots of them. 22:41:50 antifuchs: Although, I heard about this great, revolutionary thing called cells. 22:41:52 *Sikander* ducks. 22:42:10 *antifuchs* nauseates 22:42:14 heheheh... 22:42:34 LiamH: Ok, thanks 22:43:23 antifuchs: Is there a collection of (snippets for) widgets somewhere? 22:43:37 antifuchs: Or is that too backend-dependent? 22:44:12 mcclim comes with widgets 22:44:56 antifuchs: Ok, I actually meant a bit more complicated widgets, such as those found in your standard gui toolkit. 22:45:56 don't think there is. you can make your own 22:45:57 Hmm, I have to admit, though, that entries and an interactor are mostly what I use... 22:46:01 but I'm not sure they will work on windows at all 22:46:24 because ISTR they might rely on an event listener thread, or serve-event (both of which aren't available on clisp) 22:46:42 ah, that's a good point. 22:47:12 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:29 antifuchs: Wait, does that mean that gestures won't work, or don't they rely on an event listener? 22:47:37 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.146.31] has joined #lisp 22:48:03 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:48:44 astoon [~astoon@178.130.1.36] has joined #lisp 22:50:02 ... Anyway, it's been fun and educational, but I need to get some sleep. 22:50:28 Goodnight! 22:50:36 Goodnight Sikander 22:50:41 -!- Sikander [~userid@5356F49F.cm-6-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Time to sleep...] 22:50:49 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.14.30] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:52:04 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-119.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:55:36 thmzlt [~thomaz@24-217-48-63.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:41 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:34 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 23:02:50 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:03:20 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:05:05 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-41-219.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:34 lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-50-120-120.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:56 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 23:09:57 -!- mascotte [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-74-159.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 23:10:07 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:10:14 -!- thmzlt [~thomaz@24-217-48-63.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:14:29 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-191-100.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:47 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-226-67-192.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:16:38 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.146.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16:43 -!- wanderingelf [~user@c-71-61-22-64.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:17:09 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@249.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:17 -!- tmh [6367fcc4@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 23:18:09 gonzojive [~red@171.66.82.246] has joined #lisp 23:19:04 Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-63-106.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:19:12 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-101-121.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:24 francogrex [~user@109.130.175.49] has joined #lisp 23:25:21 amb007 [~a_bakic@249.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:39 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:26:20 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 23:27:41 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:28:53 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:30:53 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7F2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:12 -!- gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:35:56 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:36:32 pnq [~nick@ACA2FEE1.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:36:55 -!- qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:38:23 qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has joined #lisp 23:44:19 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:45:00 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:46:58 -!- Spitfire is now known as SpitfireWP 23:47:49 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:49:15 Genosh [~Genosh@223.Red-83-32-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:58 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:53:22 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:54:33 -!- jdz [~jdz@host18-110-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:54:45 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-223-31.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:21 -!- psilord [~psilord@adsl-71-150-253-113.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 23:59:40 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]