00:03:12 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:31 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.197.205] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:06:54 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.87.137] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 00:06:57 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 00:07:06 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:00 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 00:08:07 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:08:29 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:08:44 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:10:16 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:45 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 00:11:58 earthquake! 00:12:17 Really? 00:12:21 yup 00:12:26 How bad? 00:13:30 must have been pretty big because I'm 100 miles from the epicenter 00:13:32 http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Quakes/nc71506865.html 00:14:03 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:14:32 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:14:58 rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:21 well, 50 kilometers anyway... 00:16:30 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:31 so 30 miles. 00:16:41 100 kilometers, I mean 00:16:45 What's the closest in cl to a C switch statement? 00:16:54 4.4, not too bad 00:16:57 rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:59 aidalgol: case 00:17:14 beach: thanks 00:17:41 aidalgol: No problem. 00:20:30 aidalgol: tagbody/case, if you need to fall through. 00:20:30 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:34 rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:05 how would that look like? 00:21:13 slyrus_: that was my first earthquake (: 00:21:16 slyrus_: felt more like a wobble 00:21:24 welcome to california :) 00:21:26 (my first californian earthquake, I should say) 00:21:31 -!- sluggo_ [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:21:31 my thoughts exactly 00:22:02 tcr: (tagbody (case ... (foo (go foo)) ... foo (code) ... bar (more code)) ? 00:22:36 tagbody's tags must be contained immediately within tagbody 00:22:41 IOW, ugly 00:22:44 or not? 00:22:59 oh like that 00:23:14 right, missing one closing paren. 00:23:16 missing parenthesis :-) 00:24:38 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 00:24:52 I guess you want PROG to be able to use RETURN 00:25:29 Nice combination, thanks 00:25:59 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:07 rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:09 valium97582 [~daniel@187.57.19.253] has joined #lisp 00:26:48 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:26:52 vokoda` [~user@host86-147-41-77.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:28:14 -!- vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:28:16 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h88-206-143-104.vokby.se] has left #lisp 00:30:25 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:40:17 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:40:49 -!- redline6561 [~user@adsl-190-196-246.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:46:09 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B52D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:46:44 rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:12 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 00:50:06 -!- jomat is now known as jomatv6 00:50:48 fnordus [~dnall@S01060023693bfad4.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:14 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@187.57.19.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:36 -!- dlq22e5xcv6h962a [~maxgasner@173-11-96-165-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: dlq22e5xcv6h962a] 01:03:05 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:58 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:07:41 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 01:08:00 rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:13 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 01:22:12 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:50 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:25:44 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:26:11 dlq22e5xcv6h962a [~maxgasner@173-11-96-165-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:34 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 01:32:36 DarthShrine [~angus@60-242-109-62.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:32:36 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@60-242-109-62.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 01:32:36 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 01:32:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:34:44 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:11 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:19 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:14 -!- vokoda` is now known as vokoda 01:52:04 -!- poindontcare [~poindontc@fwsm.comcastnets.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:53:09 poindontcare [~poindontc@fwsm.comcastnets.com] has joined #lisp 01:56:04 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-148-96.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:02:07 . 02:05:05 brodo_ [~brodo@p5B024AD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:10 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:23:49 -!- dlq22e5xcv6h962a [~maxgasner@173-11-96-165-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: dlq22e5xcv6h962a] 02:25:37 How do I undo a defun? 02:25:45 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 02:25:54 aidalgol: fmakunbound 02:25:54 Oh, fmakunbound. Nevermind. 02:26:08 aidalgol: too late! 02:27:12 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:33:19 kdr2 [~kdr2@123.122.121.174] has joined #lisp 02:35:54 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:50 -!- poindontcare [~poindontc@fwsm.comcastnets.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:45:19 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:59 vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 02:48:41 evening 02:58:53 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:56 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 02:59:21 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 02:59:30 -!- brodo_ [~brodo@p5B024AD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo_] 03:00:55 -!- pnq [~nick@172.140.252.31] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:03:05 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:03:34 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 03:04:58 (09:03:03 PM) Thom: (loop :for i :in da-hood :when horny :collect bitches-and-hoes :into bed :finally (return home)) 03:04:58 (09:03:18 PM) Thom: I knew CL was good for something 03:05:16 ugh, keywrods! 03:08:48 where from, that quote? 03:08:51 that must be a fun channel 03:09:23 rien: private correspondence 03:09:38 what. 03:09:55 * (haterp 'stassats) 03:09:55 T 03:10:00 oh 03:10:33 I quite like using the keyword notation in loop. 03:10:42 but that is just my opinion. 03:10:48 balooga: so do most sane people, no worries 03:11:25 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:11:33 -!- heloehlo [~bfouts@66.83.65.206.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:11:53 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:12:07 if you call that sane, that i'd rather be insane! 03:13:07 I like keywords because I program in blub (ruby) 03:13:21 bluby 03:15:02 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:18:04 symbole [~user@ool-182ff693.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:28 i've just finished writing up a solution for one of the exercizes in an online lisp tutorial: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/316950/ 03:18:28 -!- vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:18:33 my solution is here: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/316951/ 03:18:52 but the automated tutorial checker doesn't like it, and complains with these errors: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/316952/ 03:19:03 could someone help me understand what's wrong with my code? 03:19:14 pattern: how do you know when you're at the end of a list? 03:19:25 check for (null l) first in your cond 03:19:41 ENDP! 03:19:46 endp 03:19:47 yes endp 03:19:57 i tried endp, but it didn't like it either 03:20:14 pattern: where is it? 03:20:19 the challenge 03:20:28 stassats`: first link 03:20:37 indeed 03:20:38 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20:49 stassats`: it's the "simple-and" exercise in lesson 4 here: http://art2.ph-freiburg.de/Lisp-Course 03:21:18 i need to register, bummer 03:21:36 yeah.. but registration is as easy as entering a random username and password 03:21:47 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night] 03:22:11 pattern: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/316953/ 03:23:31 thanks, Quadrescence.. if that's the solution, i'm not going to look yet 03:23:36 I didn't test it 03:23:40 i'm going to try to puzzle it out for myself first.. 03:23:58 now that you've given me a hint that i need endp on the first case, i think i might know how to fix it.. 03:24:26 pattern: then check to see if the case where you check if first l == T is useful 03:24:35 erm, where l == (T) 03:24:42 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A73A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:24:59 pattern: can anyone register for that online course? 03:25:05 yes 03:25:06 it says it's free but I don't see a register link 03:25:15 rien: enter a random user/pass 03:25:17 just type in a username and password 03:25:23 that's the registration 03:25:44 Fine! The solution is correct! 03:25:45 Quadrescence: thanks. 03:25:49 *stassats`* is proud of himself 03:26:03 it's actually a pretty decent beginner tutorial, imo 03:26:13 neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-153-203.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:38 i love tutorials with lots of exercises... and i love getting instant feedback on my work 03:27:15 will pasting the solution spoil your fun? 03:27:22 s/the/my/ 03:27:22 just paste a link 03:27:38 i'll look at it after i try my best to get the solution myself 03:28:50 pattern: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118416 03:28:57 thanks 03:30:14 pnq [~nick@AC8242F2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:13 i will judge stassats`'s solution 03:31:43 i rate stassats` solution 0/10 for not using keywords 03:32:10 i was 100% sure that you will mention keywords 03:34:09 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:34:22 stassats`: But in reality, nice solution, but I wonder if he's allowed to use AND 03:35:13 well, the machine said it's fine and i'm a genius and deserve a nobel peace prize, so i guess it's allowed 03:35:37 ahh... i finally got it... http://paste.pocoo.org/show/316954/ 03:35:43 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 03:35:51 turns out the problem i was having was that i hadn't read the question carefully enough 03:36:03 and AND can be replaced with if 03:36:15 i thought it wanted the function to return nil when the list was nil 03:36:26 but it wanted the function to return T in that case 03:39:00 Quadrescence: i am alowed to use AND... here are all the functions i'm allowed to use: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/316957/ 03:39:34 . o O ( DEFUN is a function??? ) 03:39:53 * is a variable! 03:39:59 well, form 03:40:18 sorry, i used the most economical way of talking about them.. thought you'd understand 03:40:52 pattern: you have to always be specific or we'll be pedantic :) 03:40:54 what would be a better term to refer to all of them? 03:41:02 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:41:16 operators 03:41:43 pattern: I did understand, I was just being dumb 03:43:13 well, i appreciate everyone's help anyway 03:43:37 just one other question... would stassats` solution be considered tail recursive despite using "and" ? 03:44:02 -!- tmh [6367fcc4@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 03:44:43 and in this case == if 03:44:51 Rewrite it into CPS form and it should become obvious. 03:45:02 It's probably a useful exercise to do anyhow. 03:45:08 how do i do that? 03:45:25 Start by looking up Continuation Passing Style. 03:45:40 alright.. thanks 03:45:58 vlion [~user@CPE-76-178-165-160.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:46:12 Evening 03:48:21 *rien* tips hat 03:48:58 sheesh, what a stupid judging machine it has 03:49:05 "You have coded <= instead of >" 03:50:12 it's a fascist machine 03:50:28 Ha. 03:50:53 I am putting together (another) Lisp install and I'm running into a funky Slime issue. 03:51:25 It's throwing an error about "cannot create a file" from swank-backend when I fire up M-x slime 03:51:51 but can it? 03:52:15 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 03:52:22 The error is... less than informative. /Pasting/ 03:52:47 http://pastie.org/1439246 03:53:46 you could try stracing lisp and see if any stats or opens fail around the time you start slime 03:54:12 strace on W7? :o 03:54:17 ah 03:55:04 Clisp is 2.49, Slime is the CVS tarball 03:55:04 well, for windows there's an app called "process monitor" 03:55:35 http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896645 03:55:53 that's all irrelevant 03:56:27 ? 03:56:29 vlion permission error 03:57:04 stassats: what's your take on the error? 03:57:33 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:57:47 younder: hmm, good point 03:58:19 can't you all read? 03:59:52 No. 04:00:01 Illuminate me, please. 04:00:19 " Win32 error 183 (ERROR_ALREADY_EXISTS): Cannot create a file when that file already exists." 04:01:04 Right/ 04:01:13 vlion: can you do (ensure-directories-exist "foo") in clisp twice? 04:01:24 *vlion* checking 04:01:25 csmax_ [~max@p5DE8C9F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:40 Y. 04:01:41 yes. 04:01:43 err, rather (ensure-directories-exist "foo/") 04:02:12 Yes, the second value returns NIL the second time (presuming that was the creation status) 04:02:25 -!- csmax [~max@p5DE8F5A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:04:43 I can manually load swank-loader and swank-backend in Clisp. 04:07:55 vlion` [~user@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 04:08:19 Is handling errors inherently implementation-dependant? 04:08:38 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439968.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:09:15 vlion: can you evaluate swank-loader:*fasl-directory* after you've loaded swank-loader? 04:10:20 Yes, it returns a path 04:10:47 Which does not exist 04:11:00 azaq231 [~derivecto@p4FF68394.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:11:13 vlion: can you do (ensure-directories-exist swank-loader:*fasl-directory*) ? 04:11:19 Oh, interesting 04:11:28 #P"C:\\Users\\vlion\\.slime\\fasl\\2010-12-10\\clisp-2.49-win32-pc386\\" is the "returned" path 04:11:37 But vlion\.slime is a "file" 04:11:55 great, here's your problem 04:12:03 And, boom. 04:12:38 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-167-227.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:12:45 Killed the file .slime and restarted. Slime came alive. 04:12:48 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-167-227.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:59 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:13:57 "it's alive!" (that was too easy to ignore) 04:14:02 Hahaha 04:14:34 I was trying to think of a quote from The Blob. 04:16:39 I don't know that one 04:19:45 -!- azaq231 [~derivecto@p4FF68394.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 04:19:45 azaq231 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 04:22:51 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 04:23:21 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 04:23:33 sohail [~Adium@76-10-147-73.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 04:23:33 -!- sohail [~Adium@76-10-147-73.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 04:23:33 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 04:28:48 -!- az [~az@p4FE4E816.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:28:55 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:31:59 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:32:59 -!- vlion` [~user@76.178.165.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:36:18 az [~az@p4FE4EB9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:38 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:39:44 i just did another exercise from that lisp tutorial... 04:39:53 the exercise description and my solution are here: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/316967/ 04:40:15 i got that solution with a bit of help from the tutorial judging program, and it works fine 04:40:31 but i'm confused as to why it works... as i don't see how it could ever return nil (though it clearly does) 04:40:48 the only explicit return value i have in my code is T 04:40:54 how can it ever return nil? 04:41:57 here's a simple example of an invocation that returns nil: (ALL-SAME-AS-ELEMENT 'Y '(X)) 04:42:10 but i just don't see how it could.. 04:42:54 it return nil because it doesn't explicitly return anything in that case, I guess? 04:43:02 returns* 04:43:26 argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-243-31-32.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:29 that seems to be the case after a second look 04:43:36 hmm 04:44:00 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-243-31-32.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:44:13 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:37 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 04:44:42 if you wanted it to return false then you'd have to have a third condition 04:44:55 which some languages call "else" and others call "otherwise" 04:45:10 those predicates really just mean "true" 04:45:11 antifuchs: any luck with smoke? 04:45:37 it would look like: ((else) (F)) 04:45:42 sohail: haven't had much chance to look at it since we last spoke 04:45:43 rien: nil _is_ false. 04:45:47 maybe over the weekend 04:45:47 ah 04:45:51 and it would have to come after all the other conditions 04:45:57 I'm about to port a utility I use every day so will be interesting 04:46:04 sellout: I don't belive that's a good thing :) 04:46:09 sohail: should be working, once I figure out which makefile targets i need to invoke in which order (: 04:46:12 uses qpainter and qgraphicsscene etc 04:46:53 believe* (sorry, tired) 04:47:06 rien: But that's irrelevant  I mean, Scheme made a different decision, but if you're writing CL, that's what it is. 04:47:10 antifuchs: well lmk if you're stuck, I had to run through it again 04:47:18 awesome (: 04:47:31 maybe you can run make clean & send me a diff -urN (-; 04:48:08 sellout: I think it's more about the programmer keeping his sanity than it is about "sticking to another language's habits" 04:48:24 antifuchs: didn't you already get the diff? 04:48:30 thus it is relevant to me. 04:48:36 oh wait, I didn't run through it again 04:48:42 sohail: you mentioned there were 6 or so additional files that need to be patched 04:48:43 foiled by myself 04:48:49 hah 04:48:51 yeah, those are generated files 04:48:56 don't worry, I'll find it out eventually 04:49:06 I am also sure you will find out eventually and curse me 04:49:14 heh heh 04:49:24 I probably won't have to do that (: 04:56:13 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439968.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:57:59 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:59:34 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00:47 -!- jomatv6 [~jomat@2001:470:9935::badc:ab1e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:38 -!- sm` [~s@77.28.125.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:04:55 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:06:21 sm` [~s@77.28.126.109] has joined #lisp 05:06:24 jomatv6 [~jomat@2001:470:9935::badc:ab1e] has joined #lisp 05:08:01 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:11:50 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439968.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:01 jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has joined #lisp 05:12:11 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439968.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:15:34 rv509 [~user@c-67-161-213-229.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:44 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-153-203.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:50 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 05:20:50 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@114.84.196.255] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:22:00 daniel [~daniel@p5B327779.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:02 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326FC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:25:58 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:31:33 Caffeine [~satanama@cable-10-157-244.b2b2c.ca] has joined #lisp 05:32:34 (floor 60 7) yields 8 ; 4 ... using the return value, assuming 8, everything works fine.. how do I get the 4? 05:33:05 do you want both at once? 05:33:12 yes 05:33:22 (else I guess mod would be the man) 05:33:25 (multiple-value-bind (quot rem) (floor 60 7) ...) 05:33:36 ah ha... 05:33:52 I'm so glad that that goes by a much shorter name in the Scheme world. :-P 05:34:02 nice.. good to know! 05:34:14 thanks stassats` 05:34:49 cky: lol, yeah, there are some Scheme things I prefer over lisp's ... but still giving a honest try to lisp :) 05:35:01 cky: APL is even shorter 05:35:06 stassats`: :-P 05:35:14 Caffeine: :-) 05:38:06 Does anyone have a link to a concise document describing the semantics of values/references in CL? 05:39:07 E.g., I am not sure of the precise definition of when LET binds a new variable or binds against an exisiting reference. 05:39:22 (Also, I'm not 100% clear on terminology of variables/slots/etc) 05:39:24 let creates a new binding 05:41:05 Yes, but what is the formal specification of what binding means? It's not a term I've encountered outside of Lisp 05:41:18 vlion: Think "new scope". 05:41:38 vlion: see CLHS 05:42:01 There's no more concise and better document? 05:42:12 You did ask for formal. 05:42:40 /sighs. 05:43:38 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-209.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:44:02 I was hoping there'd be a...less linky document. 05:44:14 Okay, get the ANSI standard. 05:44:24 no, don't. 05:44:27 -!- StephenFalken [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:29 CLHS is the ansi standard 05:45:10 what he says. and you can get a way more readable document (that is pretty much identical to the ansi standard) by using dpans2texi 05:45:27 -!- az [~az@p4FE4EB9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:45:36 (identical except for things like letter spacing) 05:46:05 though i find dpans2texi unusable, because it's less linky 05:46:09 anyway, if you want a description of CL's semantics, the standard is the thing to consult. 05:46:15 clhs is hyperior 05:46:24 stassats`: yeah - it can give you a nicer pdf export though (: 05:46:29 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-234.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:46:51 antifuchs: Can it give you a nicer PDF export _with hyperlinks intact_? That'd be awesomesauce. 05:47:14 don't know if texinfo does hyperlinks on the pdf export. if so, yeah 05:47:31 Interesting 05:47:32 *nods* 05:47:54 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 05:48:14 or you can just memorize CLHS 05:48:22 Ugh. 05:48:41 works for most people here... eventually (-: 05:48:53 or you can consult pfdietz's test suite 05:49:02 it might have a few juicy examples 05:49:15 http://common-lisp.net/project/ansi-test/ 05:49:39 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:49:43 I am ingesting and - theoretically - digesting utility communication specs for The Day Job. There's no writer like an ISO/IEC writer. Was hoping there'd be a... non-speccy description of CL. That's all. 05:50:26 vlion: It might be useful on this topic to read Ron Garret's discussion on bindings/variables/scope at http://www.flownet.com/ron/specials.pdf 05:50:38 vlion: I find the cl spec pretty readable, actually. 05:51:03 Oh, it's better than the IEC writers. Way better. 05:51:20 vlion: also, if you're looking for more of an overview (though not a description of actual cl semantics), cltl2 might help 05:52:41 Hmm, good point. 05:53:29 az [~az@p5796C0C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:52 the most juicy part from ansi-tests is that (make-array 0 :element-type 'nil) is a string 05:56:31 *vlion* reads Garret's discussion 05:59:09 stassats`: wasn't it that strings are arrays with :element-type 'nil, not the other way around? 05:59:29 wishbone4 [~yaaic@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:10 (I forget) 06:00:27 (but then, I still have to remind myself which way is left and which is right, so there) 06:02:22 (subtypep '(array nil (*)) 'string) => T 06:03:09 strings are clearly not arrays with element-type nil, since nothing can be a subtype of NIL 06:03:22 while nil is a subtypep of everything 06:03:45 i don't remember the exact reasons why it should be a string, though 06:04:15 I think it was something about the intersection of the types of base-char and char 06:05:44 "A string is a specialized vector whose elements are of type character or a subtype of type character." 06:05:50 nil is a subtype of character 06:06:02 ah, that was it 06:06:13 thanks for refreshing my memory. 06:06:44 i remember there being some stronger restriction, though i might misremember 06:10:45 -!- rv509 [~user@c-67-161-213-229.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:13:23 -!- wishbone4 [~yaaic@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 06:15:04 sweet! aquamacs supports full screen mode 06:16:06 So I have another question - an easy one - 06:16:45 Given: (let ((foo '(1 2 3 4 5))) (dolist (x foo) (format t "~a" x))) 06:16:49 That prints 12345NIL 06:17:05 it doesn't print NIL 06:17:30 vlion: The REPL displays the result of the dolist, which is NIL. But FORMAT itself doesn't print it. 06:18:17 Ah, ok 06:18:57 (format t "~{~a~}" '(1 2 3 4 5)) is formattier 06:19:20 Oh, it's just a demo code - I'm running into weird issues where, in a loop, my code is hitting a nil 06:19:26 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:19:26 Like it's running into the last NIL of the cons 06:19:52 paste your code 06:20:53 sure, hang on a moment 06:21:19 You may have better success with http://paste.lisp.org/ rather than http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp, since the bot is down. 06:25:15 *vlion* works on recreating the exact issue 06:27:50 -!- Ryan_ [~Ryan@174-21-162-194.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:28:02 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:28:26 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:29:21 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:24 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:31:21 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:43 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:35:01 why would one never need to use "it" in the false clause of aif? 06:35:33 because it's always nil? 06:35:57 though, any reasonable person wouldn't use aif in the first place 06:36:15 really? I just found out about it and thought it was a great idea 06:36:19 what's better? 06:37:10 anamorphic macros are debated 06:37:14 (let ((a x)) (if a a a)) 06:37:26 rien: when-let lets you bind multiple things, and nests properly 06:37:28 but even if-let is better 06:37:31 (it's in alexandria) 06:37:36 ah, and if-let of course 06:38:27 hmm, interesting. wouldn't if-let do the same as aif though? 06:38:41 how can it achieve the same without being anaphoric? 06:38:57 if-let is a small if 06:38:59 i recommend using keywords in LOOP 06:39:07 hahahah 06:39:30 stassats`: what does that mean, small? 06:40:18 rien: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-let#Suffix 06:40:38 oh 06:40:40 is that a joke? 06:40:51 a joke-let 06:41:00 oh :) 06:41:05 dberg [~user@c-98-234-179-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:05 never expected a joke from you guys 06:41:38 and if-let isn't anaphoric 06:41:39 rien: if-let works exactly the same as aif, except you have to name the thing yourself. might even have the variable available in the else clause (although it's useless - just use nil there) (: 06:41:42 "if-let" is ungoogleable 06:41:46 lol 06:41:49 rien: google alexandria 06:41:52 ok 06:42:59 ah. the bindings are in effect in the else clause also. so you can use that in there, too 06:43:07 (for whichever reason (-:) 06:43:11 oh that makes sense, if you have to name the thing then you don't need anaphorism 06:43:11 hm. 06:43:32 well I understand the nil thing 06:43:42 but I was thinking something like this: 06:43:44 right. and you can properly nest stuff, and you don't have to keep the state of "it" in your mind 06:43:49 ah 06:44:19 it would actually make sense to have these bindings in place in the else clause, too, if you use special variables (-: 06:44:22 erm... yeah there's no other way 06:45:17 (if-let ((*print-length* (digit-char-p some-input))) #| then branch has an integer print-length |# #| else branch has print-length = nil |#) ; for a contrived example 06:45:22 well I was thinking of something equivalent to asking "does this function return a word beginning with "a"? if so, print IT. if not, save IT" 06:45:28 so I'm using the IT there in both clauses 06:45:29 Quadrescence: LOOP has an anaphoric keyword, though it's rather limited 06:45:45 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.217] has joined #lisp 06:45:53 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.217] has quit [Changing host] 06:45:53 sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has joined #lisp 06:46:04 -!- devinus [~devinus@ps23102.dreamhost.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:46:12 then if-let is not what you want 06:46:14 rien: in the aif test I am seeing, IT will be the result of the test, not the word. 06:46:22 stassats`: isn't it? 06:46:33 right... 06:47:03 (if-let ((word (get-the-word)) (starts-with-a-p (starts-with-a-p word))) (print word) (save word)) ;? 06:47:14 devinus [~devinus@ps23102.dreamhost.com] has joined #lisp 06:47:18 if-let lets you have multiple clauses, and it ANDs (: 06:47:57 it ANDs? i wouldn't expect this 06:48:12 did you mean (let ((word (get-the-word)))) there? 06:48:24 "If all variables were bound to true values, the then-form is executed with the bindings in effect" 06:48:53 it's like WHEREAS, just with a more awkward name (: 06:49:05 i don't use it, so i really should expect all kinds of crazy things 06:50:05 tsk 06:50:36 if-let/when-let can make code more readable sometimes (: 06:50:51 if you're used to them 06:51:23 I like the idea of aif better 06:51:23 yeah. I guess you could say the same thing about if* 06:51:29 (shudder) 06:51:30 less repeating myself 06:51:41 more scratching your head later (: 06:52:00 how hard can it be to remember that "it" was brought by aif? 06:52:37 not hard at all, but if you're reading code, all these little things add up 06:52:45 What's an aif? 06:53:11 Adult Interactive Fiction 06:53:14 no 06:53:26 no minion )-: 06:53:28 antifuchs: I see your point 06:53:34 sea4ever: anaphoric if 06:53:49 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-129-216.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:54:01 Eh..let me get my dictionary again.. 06:54:17 ana = up, phor = to take 06:54:25 sea4ever: it's an IF where you can refer to the positive result as "it" 06:54:29 well, not take, move sort-of 06:54:34 is it possible to make the stream created by (with-open-file.. ) be a special variable? 06:54:41 Ah. An if where you can refer to the positive result as 'it'. Weird but ok 06:54:46 carry, even better 06:55:03 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55:03 yan_: sure 06:55:09 yan_: you can do with it whatever you can do with variables 06:55:24 sea4ever: it saves you from having to let the result a function and then testing on it 06:55:26 splittist [~John@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:55:33 morning 06:55:36 yan_: you can just use a special variable as the variable holding the stream 06:56:05 antifuchs: what if (with-open-file ..) creates that binding? i mark it (declare (special ..)) in a function that gets called eventually from within that binding 06:56:07 (with-open-file (*standard-output* #P"...") (format t "foo")) ; this is actually related to the anaphoric discussion (: 06:56:09 but sbcl still complains 06:56:32 yan_: ah. I don't think the special declaration works in w-o-f 06:56:42 need to use a previously-declared special 06:57:07 it doesn't? 06:57:38 stassats`: I would assume the way it expands puts the variable outside the reach of the declaration 06:58:45 antifuchs: well, it works in sbcl 06:58:47 oh, actually, it does. 06:58:50 in sbcl. 06:58:53 hm. 06:59:21 see clhs declare 06:59:32 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 06:59:42 no, see clhs with-open-file. declarations are explicitly allowed. I am completely wrong 07:00:03 -!- dberg [~user@c-98-234-179-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 07:00:21 yan_: how are you doing this? (defun foo () (declare (special s)) (read-char s)) (with-open-file (s #p"something") (declare (special s)) (read-char s)) ; works for me. 07:01:04 eh, make that (with-open-file (s #p"something") (declare (special s)) (foo)) 07:04:01 drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 07:05:43 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:23:04 balooga [~00u4440@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:26 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:28:03 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:19 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:43 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.206.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:02 cmm [~cmm@109.67.206.205] has joined #lisp 07:44:57 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:50:27 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:50:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:50:27 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:01:11 -!- adu [~ajr@c-76-23-82-40.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:01:12 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:02:02 biTT [~frinnn@i59F62E63.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:03:02 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:04:38 -!- _ism [~frinnn@i59F60AF0.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:07:19 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:09:07 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-85-91.btc-net.bg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:10:17 Phoodus [~foo@174-17-240-55.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:54 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-1-77.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:15:14 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-89-237.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:16:18 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8242F2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: sleep] 08:22:50 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 08:26:52 -!- sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:28:07 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:39 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:48 quek [~ancient@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:22 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 08:39:52 freddie111 [~user@ppp-94-64-139-241.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 08:40:31 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 08:41:45 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.118.188] has joined #lisp 08:42:29 How is this Peter Graves guy and how does he manage to write a Common Lisp implementation all by himself? 08:42:31 StephenFalken [~email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 08:43:24 ZabaQ: he's gnooth here 08:43:30 Two. ABCL and XCL. 08:43:44 But he's not alone, beach is implementing sicl. 08:44:17 So, XCL is getting some second-system-effect benefit? 08:47:14 it'd be neat if XCL/kernel can get ported to managed c++ 08:47:23 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:47:54 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:49:06 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:49:08 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:49:17 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:50:07 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.217] has joined #lisp 08:51:52 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:52:16 -!- quek [~ancient@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52:35 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:53:48 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:28 -!- nilly [~nil@c-98-247-253-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 09:00:16 -!- younder [~john@9.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:00:24 -!- az [~az@p5796C0C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:02:51 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:09 carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.99] has joined #lisp 09:08:53 Yay! I crashed CCL while compiling. 09:10:19 -!- devinus [~devinus@ps23102.dreamhost.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:10:49 devinus [~devinus@ps23102.dreamhost.com] has joined #lisp 09:13:46 quek [~ancient@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:27 See line 18. http://pastebin.com/XEq3hzLL 09:17:33 '('right 'down 'downright 'downleft) what's that? 09:17:39 -!- freddie111 [~user@ppp-94-64-139-241.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:19:06 aidalgol: do you really want a list of four lists of two elements? 09:19:48 -!- azaq231 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:22:41 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002ee7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:22 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:32:14 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:2] has joined #lisp 09:32:39 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:32:53 What's the difference between '('right 'down 'downright 'downleft) and '(right down downright downleft)? 09:33:20 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:33:25 the first is a list of lists, the latter is a list of symbols 09:33:48 Why isn't the list of symbols what I want? 09:34:06 scratch that 09:34:17 do you know what ' means? 09:34:38 stassats`: Why did you say "a list of four lists of *two elements*?" 09:35:08 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.224] has joined #lisp 09:35:20 if you know the answer to my question, then you'll see 09:35:29 What makes the four lists two-element lists? 09:35:47 "do you know what ' means?" 09:36:00 Yes, I know what ' means. 'foo is the same as (quote foo) which is the symbol foo, as opposed to the variable foo. 09:36:15 see, you answered your question 09:36:24 No, I didn't. 09:36:34 although it's not "the symbol foo" 09:37:08 aidalgol: well, read your answer more carefully, what do you see? a list of how many elements? 09:37:32 '('right 'down 'downright 'downleft) is a list of four lists. But how do you know they are four *two-element* lists? 09:38:05 because they have ' 09:38:28 As opposed to what? 09:38:39 If they have no ', then they are symbols, correct? 09:38:54 yes 09:39:44 so, do you see why? 09:39:50 But with a ', they are two-element lists? Why *two* elements? It's the *two* that I don't understand. 09:40:09 well, you've just told yourself what ' is 09:40:19 that's why it has *two* elements 09:40:31 So then, what are all you chaps up to this evening? 09:41:12 introducing quote, it looks like 09:41:22 Maybe I don't fully understand ', then. 09:41:59 ' is an abbreviation for quote, as we've already established 09:42:06 Perhaps I'm used to slightly different semantics of elisp. 09:42:19 it's exactly the same in elisp 09:42:34 OK, not that, then. 09:43:30 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:42 so, your '('right 'down 'downright 'downleft) will be '((quote right) (quote down) (quote downright) (quote downleft)) 09:43:59 which will result in a list of four list with 2 elements each 09:44:14 Oh, OK. I didn't even think about it like that. 09:44:54 So, '('foo 'bar) is '(foo bar) with the inner quotes unevaluated? 09:45:08 no 09:45:17 This is the first time lisp has hurt my head. 09:45:29 (quote thing) is 'thing 09:46:00 aidalgol: quote prevents evaluation, so that inner quotes aren't evaluated and stay where they were 09:46:05 No I understand the technical difference, how would '('foo 'bar) and '(foo bar) be treated/used differently? 09:46:05 oh hang on, mis-read you 09:46:17 s/No/Now/ 09:46:26 aidalgol: that's two completely different lists 09:47:48 stassats`: I know that, but they both *appear* to have foo and bar in them. I know how '(foo bar) (a list of symbols) can be useful, but how (if ever) is '('foo 'bar) useful? 09:48:29 it's useful whenever you need it, I don't understand the question 09:48:39 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 09:49:43 '((quote foo) (quote bar)) seems like a useable but convoluted s-exp. 09:50:08 what's convoluted about? 09:50:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-128.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:50:47 You have unevaluated quotes. Why would you ever want that? Why not the actual symbols passed to the quotes? 09:53:11 when you want a list of unevaluated things? 09:53:56 you can see this two macros : (defmacro x () ''a) vs (defmacro y () 'a) 09:55:27 adhoc [~adhoc@ppp118-210-132-42.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:38 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:58:25 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:01:20 -!- thom_logn [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:03:37 freddie111 [~user@ppp-94-64-137-202.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 10:06:14 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:06:28 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:06:31 H4ns` [~user@pD4B9E501.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:34 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:21 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C64F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:10 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9E7F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:14:43 sharps [~hazel@ip-118-90-50-156.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:17:04 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 10:17:57 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.118.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:19:00 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:21:14 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:24:18 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 10:24:24 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.63.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:24:46 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.63.230] has joined #lisp 10:24:52 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C64F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:59 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C64F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:04 -!- zbigniew [~zb@li177-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 10:27:23 zbigniew [~zb@li177-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 10:27:38 thom__ [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:51 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-209.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:34 -!- zbigniew [~zb@li177-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 10:29:54 zbigniew [~zb@2001:470:1f11:961::3e8] has joined #lisp 10:33:30 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-165-27.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 10:36:26 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.206.226] has joined #lisp 10:41:41 vokoda` [~user@host109-156-0-140.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:43:50 -!- vokoda [~user@host86-147-41-77.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:45:17 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:49:35 Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-62-169.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:49:51 -!- Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-62-169.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 10:55:53 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.226.83] has joined #lisp 10:57:33 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-189-128.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:01:45 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 11:10:01 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:10:50 ifaria [~user@2001:250:4001:143:222:68ff:fe76:88e4] has joined #lisp 11:14:54 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.206.226] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:15:26 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.206.226] has joined #lisp 11:16:21 -!- vokoda` is now known as vokoda 11:16:37 -!- vokoda [~user@host109-156-0-140.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:16:37 vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has joined #lisp 11:20:48 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 11:21:17 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-167-227.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:27:41 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has joined #lisp 11:32:16 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 11:45:30 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:46:07 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-165-27.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:49:30 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:04 -!- Intensity [GcB66NA67Z@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:58:02 tfb [~tfb@94.197.84.62.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:58:43 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 11:59:12 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:35 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 11:59:43 hi 11:59:51 Hello Posterdati 12:00:17 I hope you guys haven't all fallen out of the sky with blue beaks like all those birds in Italy, or without blue beaks like the birds in the US. Such rough landings would make it hard to code lisp. 12:00:37 Hi Posterdati and beach. 12:01:47 yes here in Italy 12:02:09 but I didn't see the blue beaks 12:05:03 Perhaps those birds were trying to figure how to make stand alone executables with lisp, and it gave them such headaches that their brains exploded. Then down they came. 12:07:08 Should I be using cl-launch? 12:08:34 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:12:58 Or perhaps they were trying to figure out the answer to the question "if Lisp is so great, why is it not more popular?". 12:15:22 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-172-212.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:16:24 What's going on here? 12:16:27 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 12:16:37 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:16:58 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:18:21 drdo, we are discussing 12:18:47 how lisp may have caused birds to fall out of the sky. 12:18:51 brodo [~brodo@p5B024AD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:15 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 12:22:15 Seriously, What is the best way to prepare a sbcl program for use by end users? 12:22:46 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3F2A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:23:09 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:24:26 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-189-128.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:32 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-189-128.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:31:58 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:32:10 drl: no those birds has got stroustrup in their code 12:34:24 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B024AD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 12:34:40 -!- sellout [~greg@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:35:27 valium97582 [~daniel@187.57.19.237] has joined #lisp 12:36:36 good morning 12:37:11 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.98.149] has joined #lisp 12:42:06 daniel1 [~daniel@187.57.19.237] has joined #lisp 12:44:14 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@187.57.19.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:20 Posterdati, you are probably right. If their brains had been powered by lisp the bug could have been fixed in flight like the lisp code on that space ship we've read about. 12:47:47 -!- daniel1 is now known as valium97582 12:48:18 drl: sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die 12:48:21 I think 12:50:42 sharps, yes. But when I try to run the resulting program, i get: "invalid magic number in core." What am I doing wrong? 12:53:09 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 12:55:06 snearch [~snearch@f053007006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:56:29 feklee [~wiwi@p508FE955.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:31 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-96.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:58:41 mega1 [~mega1@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 12:59:57 dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-180.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:02:31 -!- feklee [~wiwi@p508FE955.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:23 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 13:05:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 13:05:23 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:07:18 I notice a spike in oxymoronic flux half an our ago... 13:09:56 -!- freddie111 [~user@ppp-94-64-137-202.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:16 beach, the things that make lisp great are also the things that keep it from being popular. You need to learn emacs and slime to really appreciate lisp, I think, but the learning curve is too steep for the impatient. Add in lisp, and you are learning three complex tools simultaneously. Also, the parenthesis make the syntax simple, but most newbies don't realize that. 13:13:00 pjb, that spike probably wouldn't have happened had you been here to answer my questions. 13:13:57 drl: I was refering valium saying good morning :-) 13:14:31 lol 13:15:08 pjb: but it's 11:15 am here 13:15:25 pjb: oh, nevermind 13:15:59 valium97582: yes, if your nick had been cafeine12351... 13:16:34 -!- quek [~ancient@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:17:12 Good day everybody! 13:17:36 brodo [~brodo@p5B024AD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:49 hi, deepfire 13:17:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:18:33 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 13:18:33 pjb, so, you say, that to be able to portably skip over " (a) (b #+nonexistent-package:c d) (e)", I have to implement an extended CL reader? 13:18:56 That's what I think indeed. 13:19:38 drl: I have no idea why you're getting that error, try #sbcl 13:20:55 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:23:12 pjb, this startlingly unfortunate. 13:23:22 pjb, this is startlingly unfortunate. 13:24:10 Infuriating, I'd say : -) 13:24:42 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 13:26:25 Maybe I'm lucky, and missing package reader errors are structured/standartised enough to be useful for creation of stub packages. 13:27:06 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 13:30:32 SIMPLE-READER-PACKAGE-ERROR, SIMPLE-ERROR, SIMPLE-READER-ERROR and SIMPLE-PACKAGE-ERROR in SBCL, ECL, CCL and CLisp, correspondingly 13:31:14 ECL's SIMPLE-ERROR isn't particularly promising. 13:31:56 pjb, can I has your clall bash script? 13:32:53 deepfire: google for site:paste.lisp.org clall or go to http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/?a=summary&p=public/bin 13:33:16 pjb, thank you! 13:36:52 deepfire: I write things like: #+#.(cl:if (and (cl:find-package "LINUX") (cl:find-symbol "GETENV" "LINUX")) '(and) '(or))) 13:37:23 something similar could be done to replace #+package:symbol 13:38:08 pjb, sadly I don't control the code I analyse 13:38:25 This is what motivated me to write my reader. 13:38:41 pjb, the goal is to analyse .asd files, without loading them 13:39:06 Yes, you could use it. 13:40:01 deepfire: have a look at http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/?a=tree&p=public/lisp&h=bc412c8ec4bbe107b2bc7a52d5fa8a15b7cd4617&hb=9c2f2a59c0171d2b307d0682a064776e5f6906b6 13:41:26 chobot_ [~chobot@cust-144.ktknet.cz] has joined #lisp 13:43:45 desire depends on this capability, to automagically deduce dependencies 13:43:48 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:44:09 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:45:42 pjb, says "Invalid path info: source-text.lisp" when I click on the .lisp file 13:45:59 Grrr. 13:46:53 You know, I think it's worth to raise this unfortunate property of the CL reader on the pro list. 13:46:56 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:47:54 Try again. 13:49:15 deepfire: the reader algorithm is not at all difficult to implement yourself. I would say the spec chooses not to try to second guess all the ways people might want access to the code DAG by keeping it simple rather than specifying a never-quite-extensible-enough reader facility. 13:49:17 deepfire: 1- the standard is frozen. You could write a CDR. 2- it's not really a problem, meta tools have to implement their own reader anyways. 13:49:20 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.63.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:50:51 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:07 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.49.33] has joined #lisp 13:51:37 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:07 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:52:51 Well, a generic argument is that languages /do/ differ in the level of completeness of their meta-facilities. Simple cases like this ought to be covered, I think. 13:52:56 heloehlo [~bfouts@66.83.65.206.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:32 deepfire: the problem is clearly with the authors who used a non keyword symbol with #+/#-. 13:53:54 deepfire: there's a reason why #+ and #- set *package* to the keyword package. It is this! 13:54:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:54:15 *deepfire* reads the spec again 13:55:09 pjb, same problem 13:55:21 pjb, the link that gives me this is http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=232abd6e3a943129146f1a9535181b21d940fcdf&hb=9c2f2a59c0171d2b307d0682a064776e5f6906b6&f=source-text.lisp 13:55:49 pjb, the parent link I'm getting this link from is http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/?a=tree&p=public/lisp&h=bc412c8ec4bbe107b2bc7a52d5fa8a15b7cd4617&hb=9c2f2a59c0171d2b307d0682a064776e5f6906b6 13:56:01 this works: http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=232abd6e3a943129146f1a9535181b21d940fcdf&hb=9c2f2a59c0171d2b307d0682a064776e5f6906b6&f=common-lisp/lisp-text/source-text.lisp 13:57:05 pjb, I renavigated to some parent, and then back, and it worked 13:57:28 sellout [~greg@64.134.66.221] has joined #lisp 13:57:47 ziga` [~user@BSN-176-185-155.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:57 ok. 13:59:37 pjb, well, the spec merely says it sets *package* while reading the feature expression, it doesn't appear to mandate anything here 13:59:45 *binds 13:59:49 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:46 So I don't see how you could put the blame on people writing #+my-package:my-feature. 14:01:19 I can even imagine a purist, like say, beach, to point that this actually makes sense : -) 14:01:25 deepfire: sure, you can use any symbol, but of course, that means that your expressions requires a context where the package and the symbol exist. 14:02:01 pjb, which puts us back to the starting point about completeness of meta-facilities.. 14:02:14 And loading the file in an implementation that doesn't have this package is not the right context. 14:02:29 Not loading, reading. 14:02:52 deepfire: you can also write #- the-implementation-that-has-the-package (load "file.asd") 14:03:03 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.66.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:08 sellout [~greg@64.134.66.221] has joined #lisp 14:03:09 and this is what was intended by the author. Or else, use my text source reader. 14:03:23 s/#-/#+ 14:04:01 It's so much more fun to argue about principles, you know : -) 14:04:40 deepfire: actually, nothing prevents you to redefine #+ and #- so that they work as you want. With the added advantage that they'd work the same way in all implementations. 14:04:54 pjb, point! 14:05:18 A dirty hack, but a point, indeed! 14:05:29 pjb, thank you! 14:05:39 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 14:06:35 I couldn't step back, to see it. 14:07:18 -!- balooga [~00u4440@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:08:34 Joy! 14:09:19 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002ee7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:03 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:31 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:12:27 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.142.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:12:40 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 14:12:53 Sweet success! My problem solved; this works: (sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die "il" :executable t :toplevel 'lat-il::il-gui) The problem was :toplevel was looking for il-gui in cl-user. The better I get at understanding the debugger, the more I like lisp! 14:15:35 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:15:41 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.142.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 14:17:57 Actually, not a dirty hack at all, given get-dispatch-macro-character. 14:18:14 Sorry for that mischaracterisation. 14:21:46 brodo_ [~brodo@p5B0243A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:26 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B024AD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23:26 -!- brodo_ is now known as brodo 14:23:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:24:11 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.84.196.255] has joined #lisp 14:24:42 benny` [~benny@i577A39AB.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:25:21 -!- benny` is now known as benny 14:28:50 Well, I still have to seek over the feature expression, somehow. 14:29:32 Hummm. My executable launches just fine from gnome-commander, but not from the terminal. Why? 14:29:44 different environment? 14:29:53 how do I shuffle a list? 14:29:55 deepfire: read with *read-suppress* being nil? 14:30:30 tcr, I have, by now, painfully discovered that *read-suppress* is useless for this.. 14:30:36 deepfire: yes, but you can use another reader that doesn't intern the symbols. Eg. you could set the readtable to do that. 14:30:38 tcr, this was my original solution, actually.. 14:30:54 valium97582: randomly? 14:30:55 "solution", that is 14:31:01 pjb: yes 14:31:03 deepfire: I mean to skip over the feature expression; what's the insufficiency you ran against? 14:31:08 valium97582: google for it, there are a lot of examples of solutions. 14:31:13 valium97582, alexandria ha it 14:31:17 or not the feature expression, but the next form actually 14:31:20 valium97582, alexandria has it 14:32:47 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:15 valium97582, look for SHUFFLE in http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/alexandria/alexandria.git;a=blob;f=sequences.lisp;h=a4b2a958fecc4f0b41bd71ac4a3a1f6207430bbc;hb=HEAD 14:34:33 pjb, deepfire: oh, thanks 14:35:34 it's because I am trying to implement the bo(z|g)osort algorithm 14:36:07 valium97582: don't forget to test it on pre-sorted, pre-anti-sorted, and other pathological orders. 14:37:22 pjb: ok. 14:37:53 Bogosort complexity is O(n) best case and O(infinity) worst case (: 14:37:58 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:38:15 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@86-9-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 14:40:56 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:42:04 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:42:38 tcr, investigating, my first stab was a little naive 14:44:28 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:45:52 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:56 Success. 14:49:20 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118424 14:50:11 Thanks everybody! 14:54:38 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-172-212.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:08 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:02:02 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:03:56 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:57 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.98.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:09:07 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:12:05 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:14:52 -!- kdr2 [~kdr2@123.122.121.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:20:26 twem2 [~tristan@87-194-53-22.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:21:04 deepfire: I don't think you can count on a specific position in the stream after a read error. 15:21:38 deepfire: I would restrict myself to file stream, and use file-position to read the two suppressed forms restarting from the same position... 15:25:38 Answer to my question, launch like this: xterm -e sbcl-executable. 15:26:42 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002ee7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:22 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-176-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:37 -!- ifaria [~user@2001:250:4001:143:222:68ff:fe76:88e4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:31:06 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 15:31:06 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-176-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:31:42 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:20 any lisps besides XCL written in C++? 15:35:27 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:42 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-176-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:03 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:25 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:38 My stacktrace shows 3 arguments for a function ARG-0 seems fine but ARG-1 is : and ARG-2 is NIL ..if the second is not available how can the third be? 15:38:08 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:39:31 cYmen: ARG-2 might have been in a register, and at the point of the error that register has been reused for something else (my guess) 15:39:38 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-176-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:40:12 huh...ok 15:43:09 -!- Fade [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:24 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:46:56 pjb, in fact it's even worser 15:47:04 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:47:27 pjb, the offending feature expression can be buried arbitrarily deep in the top-level sexp 15:48:09 dmiles_afk, why? 15:50:20 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:51:06 i am interested in porting to managed C++ 15:51:31 though XCL I think i'll like it best 15:53:10 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 15:54:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:22 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:57 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 15:58:54 -!- chobot_ [~chobot@cust-144.ktknet.cz] has quit [Quit: chobot_] 15:59:03 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:53 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:02:32 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:04:03 nsswb [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:14 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:02 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:05 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 16:09:05 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 16:09:05 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 16:13:04 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:26 -!- sharps [~hazel@ip-118-90-50-156.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has left #lisp 16:15:44 c0mrade [c0mrade@62.84.90.59] has joined #lisp 16:18:10 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:31 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:25:43 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:25:58 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 16:29:59 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:08 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:57 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:11 -!- ziga` [~user@BSN-176-185-155.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has left #lisp 16:32:20 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-176-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:43 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has joined #lisp 16:43:55 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:45:22 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.212.210] has joined #lisp 16:46:21 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.212.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:55 -!- StephenFalken [~email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:48:02 _ism [~frinnn@i59F62E63.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:50:52 -!- biTT [~frinnn@i59F62E63.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:07 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:42 tmh [6367fcc4@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:53:49 Greetings lispers! 16:53:56 evening, tmh 16:54:18 Good morning deepfire. 16:54:49 guillermo [~guillermo@unaffiliated/guillermo] has joined #lisp 16:56:44 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:57:03 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:54 StephenFalken [email@89-180-232-197.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 16:58:34 Reimplementing Lisp reader. No want. 16:58:34 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.66.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:52 Hmm, I wonder if #\: can be somehow overridden. 16:59:57 sellout [~greg@64.134.66.221] has joined #lisp 17:00:24 it can made a normal constituent without particular trait; but not portably 17:00:43 it can be made whitespace if that helps 17:00:50 portably? 17:01:06 twem2- [~tristan@87-194-53-22.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:01:19 yes, using set-syntax-from-char #\Space 17:01:30 Thanks, rushing to try! 17:02:11 -!- sm` [~s@77.28.126.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:02:32 -!- twem2 [~tristan@87-194-53-22.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:45 tcr, oh, joy, it's perfect! 17:03:01 tcr, problem solved (finally!) for me, thanks a lot! 17:03:04 deepfire: you can put a reader macro on each constituent character so that when you encounter one, you may read a token without completing the reader algorithm, ie. without trying to intern a symbol that's qualified by an inexistant package. 17:03:53 pjb, that sounds like implementing map-constituent-characters, which doesn't appear trivial to implement.. 17:03:55 ZabaQ [~Zaba@28.88-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:00 Otherwise, there's no way to change the behavior of #\: as package qualifier 'operator'. 17:04:31 deepfire: Named-readtables contain a do-readtable macro which has a portable implementation, but uses implementation-specific mechanism if known 17:04:47 The reader algorithm is not specified using character syntax for #\:, but by using #\: explicitely. 17:04:48 tcr, I remember using it : -) 17:04:53 deepfire: Oh sorry that's not quite the same though 17:05:02 pjb: No that is not right 17:05:08 Folks, thanks a lot! 17:05:13 The character syntax of #\: is constituent 17:05:26 but it has a specific, non-overwritable trait 17:06:28 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:06:50 sm` [~s@77.29.19.55] has joined #lisp 17:07:30 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.49.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:09:18 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.179.253] has joined #lisp 17:09:52 billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-76-223.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:11:09 urandom__ [~user@p548A35CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:52 -!- twem2- is now known as twem2 17:12:44 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:16:05 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:17:59 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.66.221] has quit [Quit: sellout] 17:19:04 sellout [~greg@64.134.66.221] has joined #lisp 17:20:50 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@86-9-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:22:21 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.66.221] has quit [Client Quit] 17:24:34 For my specific purposes (s-s-f-c #\: #\Space) is exactly enoungh, but I'm trying to make it a little more generic -- so that reading "a:b" doesn't stop before "b". 17:25:36 that's not possible 17:25:42 portably anyway 17:26:04 except for the way pjb depicted 17:26:06 well, (s-s-f-c #\: #\\) is /almost/ there 17:26:36 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:26:39 not really :-) 17:26:54 or, yes "almost" 17:27:30 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 17:27:36 because we can meet "\":\"" 17:27:58 (Which is the only problem I can see..) 17:29:42 Where is gigamonkey? 17:29:42 -!- naryl1 is now known as naryl 17:30:20 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.84.196.255] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:30:44 aka` [~user@gate3.tomo-labo.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:28 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:31:38 -!- aka` [~user@gate3.tomo-labo.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:31:57 He's transdimensional, you can never be sure.. 17:32:33 Or perhaps he's very still, so by Heisenberg, you cannot know where it is. 17:32:36 s/it/he/ 17:35:05 -!- twem2 [~tristan@87-194-53-22.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:50 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 17:36:06 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:36:35 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 17:39:12 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.206.226] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:39:55 *deepfire* pasted "READ-IGNORING-MISSING-PACKAGES" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/118426 17:40:13 Oh, forgot attribution. 17:40:55 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:47:08 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:47:40 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.206.226] has joined #lisp 17:49:15 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:24 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:49:27 biTT [~frinnn@i59F62E63.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:49:55 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:55 Bronsa [~BRACE@host156-180-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:53:38 -!- _ism [~frinnn@i59F62E63.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:54:47 Also, PEEK-CHAR wasn't properly passed the parameters. 17:56:01 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:56:55 sellout- [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:02 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:59:02 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 18:00:21 Oh, lovely. 18:00:40 CLG uses custom readtable in its .asd files.. 18:00:44 #?(pkg-exists-p "gdk-2.0" :atleast-version "2.14.0")gio 18:02:16 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:01 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 18:06:19 -!- nsswb [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:08:09 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:44 -!- hargettp 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[~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 18:34:44 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:36:20 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:37:56 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 18:43:04 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.84.62.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 18:43:16 miv [~miv@94.231.123.31] has joined #lisp 18:44:38 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:39 -!- miv [~miv@94.231.123.31] has quit [Client Quit] 18:46:06 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.179.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:51:48 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.179.253] has joined #lisp 18:54:34 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 18:55:03 vokoda` [~user@host109-153-55-169.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:55:25 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:56:18 -!- vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:59:14 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 18:59:59 I hope my screen session didn't spew anything obscene, while I was struggling with it.. 19:02:43 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:03:56 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 19:04:10 no, that exorcism was rated all-ages, pretty much. 19:05:43 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:06:05 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:06:19 DarthShrine [~angus@60-242-109-62.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 19:06:19 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@60-242-109-62.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 19:06:19 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 19:10:11 -!- hdurer_office [~hdurer@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 19:10:51 hdurer_office [~hdurer@lo4.cfw-a-gci.london.yahoo.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:07 antifuchs: you were having some trouble loading a Framework the other day. Did you figure that out? 19:14:33 yeah, I was loading it in slime 19:14:43 so it croaked, because that didn't happen on the main thread 19:15:00 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: It's getting dark, too dark to see] 19:15:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:15:26 thanks for asking (: 19:15:32 right, I wonder if CFFI should ensure that stuff happens on the main thread? 19:15:44 (I just came across an earlier bug report about something similar) 19:17:19 -!- billitch [~billitch@AMontsouris-153-1-76-223.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:17:28 that would be nice 19:17:32 We changed the Darwin ports of CCL to load shared libraries on the main thread by default in an attempt to avoid that problem. 19:17:35 no idea how to go about that, though (: 19:19:23 rme: do you interrupt the main thread to load the library there? 19:20:34 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:24 luis: yes. we use a fairly trivial function called call-in-process that uses process-interrupt. 19:22:05 I'm wondering how did cl-opengl ever work on CCL since the repl thread is not the main thread is it? 19:22:25 I could swear I've used cl-opengl with CCL in the past. 19:23:27 Aisling_ [ash@blk-222-192-36.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 19:24:08 Mac OS X 10.6 changed. If you load CoreFoundation.dylib from a thread that is not the main thread, the library traps. 19:24:14 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:33 OK, that explains it. Thanks. 19:24:39 (I think it was CoreFoundation...) 19:25:13 -!- Bronsa [~BRACE@host156-180-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A35CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- c0mrade [c0mrade@62.84.90.59] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.226.83] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-168-252.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-soilcxccbhgmpanl] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:25:13 -!- Euthydemus` 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[~BRACE@host156-180-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 urandom__ [~user@p548A35CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 c0mrade [c0mrade@62.84.90.59] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.226.83] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-168-252.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 seejay [~seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 baley_ [~baley@87.229.24.201] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-218-205.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 adeht [void@cattle-driver.no-ip.info] has joined #lisp 19:26:44 I wonder if there is a reason why Edi Weitz writes #-:lispworks in hunchentoot.asd. 19:26:53 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:27:09 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:27:29 I mean, he explicitly qualifies the symbol with :. 19:28:34 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A35CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:03 urandom__ [~user@p548A35CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:38 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 19:31:11 tcr, what did you have in mind, when you said that (set-syntax-from-char #\: #\\) wouldn't work? 19:32:49 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-96.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:49 -!- drl 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[Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:28 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:14 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:49:04 holycow [~rtaylor@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:09 -!- holycow [~rtaylor@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:50:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV4-2ywH4Ew 19:50:26 he's not a lisper 19:51:10 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:25 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:03:32 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:03:50 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:50 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:03:50 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 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quit [Quit: brodo] 21:08:03 DP249 [~DP@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:08:06 -!- DP249 [~DP@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 21:08:11 orangeman [~orangeman@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:08:18 -!- orangeman [~orangeman@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 21:08:23 jamface [~jamface@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:09:15 nsswb [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:39 Hi, I'm trying to write a function that takes elements of a numerical list and returns a list with the negation of each element e.g. 1 = -1 21:09:49 I'm having some problems. 21:09:52 jamface: one easy way is (mapcar #'- list) 21:10:10 thanks 21:10:16 but the problem goes on I'm afraid 21:10:37 (1 2 (3 m) 4) 21:10:54 I only want it to negate the first element of the list 21:11:01 i have used an if statment 21:11:17 but it seems to not make it negative 21:11:34 (* -1 item) 21:11:50 is item not a number? 21:12:03 -!- nsswb [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:10 hey Xach 21:12:11 nsswb [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:11 jamface: try pasting your code to paste.lisp.org for more help 21:12:13 hey dto 21:12:36 arbscht and i are warming up our voip setups for an imminent interview 21:12:54 represent our hemisphere well, brother 21:12:56 we had a dry run this morning and the voip is crystal clear, better than any phone conferencing service i've used. 21:13:02 our hemisphere :) 21:13:10 what about the Local Group 21:13:15 think big 21:13:53 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118432 21:14:11 sorry if the formatting isn't good, just getting used to lisp 21:15:05 Looks fine to me 21:15:09 <_3b> jamface: * does not modify its arguments 21:15:12 You can pull that * -1 out, no? 21:15:20 And that heh 21:15:38 _3b: we need callf :) 21:16:01 You can use setf for that 21:16:18 You can actually (setf (first item) blah) 21:16:21 I think 21:16:22 <_3b> (* -1 item) returns negated item, which is returned from the if statement and then discarded 21:16:43 <_3b> then the setq appends the unmodified value 21:16:53 i think you can just write (- item) right? 21:17:10 can setq always be replaced by setf? 21:17:16 <_3b> also, setq...(append ...) is inefficient, if you care about that sort of thing 21:17:32 ZabaQ [~Zaba@28.88-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:45 (let ((target (if (listp item) (first item) item))) (setf target (- 0 target))) 21:17:49 Does that make any sense? 21:18:16 <_3b> qfr: i suspect it should collect the sublist with teh first item negated, not just the negated first element 21:18:56 *_3b* also suspects it is homework, so won't provide direct solutions 21:19:00 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:38 -!- nsswb [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has left #lisp 21:27:47 -!- Ryan_ [~Ryan@174-21-162-194.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:28:01 jamface (defun minus (list) (map 'list #'(lambda (n) (- n)) list))) 21:28:25 Maybe you can make that even shorter, I'm a noob at Lisp 21:28:58 <_3b> qfr: isn't that just a verbose version of what Xach suggested? 21:29:20 Oh, haha 21:29:25 that looks better 21:29:44 <_3b> also, you don't need the #' on (lambda ...) 21:29:47 (defun minus (list) (mapcar #'- list)) 21:30:10 _3b I copied that from http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_map.htm lol 21:30:41 <_3b> yeah, older versions of CL before the spec was finalized needed it, and some people still like it anyway 21:32:28 fisxoj [~fisxoj@24.59.205.231] has joined #lisp 21:32:33 trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:13 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:35 hm, a 'function designator' is needed there, lambda here is still a symbol? 21:34:25 <_3b> lambda is a macro that expands to (function '(lambda ...)) 21:34:32 <_3b> oops, no ' there 21:34:44 *_3b* forgets that function is a special operator 21:35:25 <_3b> #' is a reader macro that reads as (function ...), so #'(lambda ...) and (lambda ...) evaluate to the same things in most places 21:36:25 http://l1sp.org/cl/lambda -> it can be a symbol or a macro 21:36:46 <_3b> well, LAMBDA is a symbol 21:36:51 <_3b> that symbol names a macro 21:36:52 Does LOOP copy the sequence in: (LOOP for var in seq do ... )? I am trying to modify seq in the DO body, and it doesn't seem to be taking. 21:37:16 vlion: and how are you doing that? 21:37:18 <_3b> it does not, but VAR is a new binding, so modifying that binding probably doesn't do what you want 21:37:50 <_3b> but note that modifying things you are iterating might break things if you don't follow specific rules 21:38:02 do ( ... (if predicate (push thungus seq))) 21:38:14 you can't do that 21:38:29 ! 21:38:32 <_3b> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_f.htm 21:38:54 and "seq" is a bad name for a list 21:39:06 It's not the real name - I redacted for clarity. 21:39:17 <_3b> i wouldn't expect PUSH to be seen by something iterating a list anyway, since it is already past the part where PUSH would be adding anyway 21:40:10 So what's the usual idiom for iterating on a mutating list? 21:40:21 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.157.139] has joined #lisp 21:40:26 and push doesn't modify a list 21:40:31 cheers guys for the help 21:40:34 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118433 21:40:40 I want to return the list 21:40:41 vlion: what's the semantics of this? 21:40:45 Wut? push is a destructive modifier 21:40:54 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:40:56 i have put the desired output on there as well 21:40:59 I'm implemeting a BFS. 21:41:03 at the moment I only ge the numbers back 21:41:07 vlion: it's not 21:41:20 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_push.htm ? 21:41:33 yes, i'm talking about this push 21:41:34 <_3b> jamface: well, how do you normally make lists? 21:41:59 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:42:06 So what is it if not destructive? It changes the list that's sent to it. 21:42:20 <_3b> vlion: no, it changes the /binding/ not the list 21:42:37 it changes the place 21:42:53 <_3b> right, was correcting that, but was too slow :( 21:43:20 jamface: remove the list at the end, map returns the new list 21:43:28 which in this case is a variable 21:43:52 <_3b> churib: isn't that LIST the thing being mapped over, not a return? 21:44:19 _3b: uargs, sorry, you are right 21:44:28 jamface: forget what i said 21:45:12 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.42] has joined #lisp 21:45:19 Umph. 21:45:31 argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-243-31-32.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:55 That's annoying. 21:47:07 what? 21:47:37 <_3b> vlion: remember that lists in CL aren't a real object, just something built out of conses 21:48:11 stassats: Not being able to do a straightfoward traversal of a list that gets pushed. 21:48:23 vlion: how should be traversed? 21:48:28 should it be 21:48:46 Should is an interesting question that I leave to others. 21:49:09 well, how do you want it to be traversed? 21:49:16 what is it that you're trying to do? 21:49:36 What would scratch *my* itch would be "for each element in list, bind variable var to element" 21:50:03 List itself would be able to be modified in-place. 21:50:04 *_3b* thinks 'should' would be what it does now... it goes to the first element, then the one after that, and so on until it hits the end 21:50:19 <_3b> PUSH only adds things before the first element, so it should never see them 21:50:27 vlion: so, it'd be traversed again? 21:50:51 No, it would iterate until the end marker was hit, and then exit. 21:51:10 If the end marker /changes/ in the body of the loop by postpending, so be it. 21:51:16 <_3b> PUSH prepends 21:52:32 <_3b> changing the tail of the list could possibly be made to do something useful, but is specifically disallowed by the spec for conforming programs 21:53:20 Epic. 21:53:38 what are you trying to accomplish with this, anyway? 21:53:58 I'm implementing an iterating BFS. 21:54:24 and? 21:54:34 Well, that's what I'm trying to accomplish. 21:55:14 but you didn't say _what_ you're trying to accomplish 21:55:24 fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:47 You're right. I don't think it's relevant to the algorithmic question. 21:56:01 -!- fade is now known as Fade 21:56:12 But, since you asked, I'm trying to keep my algorithmic skills sharp. 21:56:18 you're trying to do a FIFO, or what? 21:56:36 Yes. 21:57:08 <_3b> so (loop for x = (pop list) ... (push list))? 21:57:46 I'm trying to make '(1 2 3) '(4 5 6) = (1 2 3 4 5 6) 21:57:59 append? 21:58:01 I keep getting ((1 2 3) (4 5 6)) 21:58:03 im using cons 21:58:07 ahhh 21:58:10 thanks 21:58:52 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:59:26 _3b: that looks like a LIFO 22:00:02 <_3b> stassats: ah, right, i should probably go to sleep or somthing :) 22:04:05 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118434 is a snippet. 22:04:18 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 22:05:52 It's a fairly basic graph-search setup 22:08:43 -!- Bronsa [~BRACE@host156-180-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:11:33 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:51 kevin01123 [~user@97-91-232-86.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:13 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:40 thoughts on how to FIFO it, stassats? 22:13:51 <_3b> replace my LIST, PUSH, POP with QUEUE, ENQUEUE, DEQUEUE? (implementing those left as an exercise to the reader) 22:15:04 I was thinking I was going to either hack up a DO loop or build a QUEUE object. 22:15:04 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:16:46 <_3b> why DO? 22:18:00 So I could destructively modify the queue and test for termination. 22:18:03 <_3b> also, use WHEN instead of single branch IF, particularly when it needs progn 22:18:16 <_3b> you can do that with LOOP, you just can't use IN or ON 22:18:41 <_3b> for foo = (get an item) ... while (not done yet) ... 22:18:46 Ah. 22:19:11 it's better to implement a queue, because if you will traverse the whole list to append an element, it'd be rather slow 22:19:25 I was thinking of using nconc for the appending 22:19:57 <_3b> well, pretty much however you do it, mixing it into the loop would probably be messier than abstracting it properly 22:19:57 couldn't you implement an ADT that keeps a reference to the last cons? 22:20:56 _3b: True. It'd be a voyage to kludgeville with a speedboat. 22:20:56 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118434#1 here's a sketch of queue 22:21:25 why defstruct and not defclass? 22:21:39 why defclass and not defstruct? 22:21:44 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has left #lisp 22:24:18 Well, I don't know the tradeoffs. I'm - durp - still learning the tradeoffs. 22:24:44 My understanding is defclass allows methods on the class to be made in a straightforward manner. 22:25:16 you can make methods on structures in the same manner 22:25:37 -!- heloehlo [~bfouts@66.83.65.206.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:26:52 Ah. 22:30:17 -!- kevin01123 [~user@97-91-232-86.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 22:30:33 is there an efficient function to erase a hash table? 22:30:39 clrhash 22:30:46 e.g. in java obj = new obj(); 22:31:12 jamface: this isn't not an erasure 22:31:27 if you want a new hash-table, then create a new hash-table 22:32:44 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:06 used (clrhash table) 22:34:43 User [~User@138-38-159-194.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:34:50 -!- User [~User@138-38-159-194.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 22:34:59 tread [~tread@138-38-159-194.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:35:18 -!- tread [~tread@138-38-159-194.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:22 obita [~obita@138-38-159-194.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:36:19 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@28.88-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has left #lisp 22:37:04 kaka [skarbo.kat@46.211.0.193] has joined #lisp 22:37:33 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:00 -!- kaka is now known as turutyu 22:39:23 -!- turutyu [skarbo.kat@46.211.0.193] has left #lisp 22:40:18 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 22:41:20 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.125.113] has joined #lisp 22:41:25 ziga` [~user@BSN-176-147-69.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:40 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.206.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:43:37 cmm [~cmm@109.67.206.205] has joined #lisp 22:44:05 -!- jamface [~jamface@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:44:11 jamface [~jamface@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:44:43 When i run maphash, it prints out each key and value on different lines 22:45:02 is there a way to append them to a list 22:45:09 at the moment I have 22:45:09 (maphash #'(lambda (key value) (print (list key value))) *hash-table*) 22:45:10 hi 22:45:29 tried adding 'list before the lambda 22:45:33 but returns an error 22:46:01 so you want to convert your hashtable to property-list? 22:46:37 not really 22:47:11 I want to print each key & value in a list 22:47:28 (key1 value1 key2 value2 ...) 22:47:56 jamface: what's the definition of a property-list? 22:48:02 jamface: why? 22:48:12 why do you need to print it in such a way? 22:48:42 xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.81.99] has joined #lisp 22:48:50 because I need the key and the value 22:48:59 probably should have used a property-list 22:49:05 but is already coded 22:49:13 Try (format t "~a ~a" key value) 22:49:20 and hash tables are better for high capacity I read 22:49:47 jamface: why do you want to print (key1 value1 key2 value2 ...)? 22:50:12 because the key holds information as well as value 22:50:14 -!- mega1 [~mega1@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:20 -!- churib is now known as churib_zzZZzz 22:50:33 i give up 22:50:47 jamface: right. and you probably want to look up the value in the "value" by using the "key". 22:50:58 -!- churib_zzZZzz [~churib@95.156.194.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:02 that's the basic property of a hash table as well as a property list. 22:51:12 exactly 22:51:20 just when i use maphash 22:51:22 i get 22:51:34 key1 value 1 22:51:35 the question remains unanswered: why! 22:51:38 key2 value 2 22:51:43 yes. 22:51:46 that's a fact. 22:52:02 i want (key1 value1 key2 value2) 22:52:05 you want to know why 22:52:05 right. 22:52:07 why? 22:52:24 because thats the way I want to represent my data?? 22:52:29 why...does it matter? 22:52:34 yes. 22:52:41 why/ 22:52:45 why?* 22:53:07 because both structures allow lookup of key/value pairs 22:53:13 I'm just printing it out, doesn't need to be used within another function 22:53:27 just output 22:53:36 jamface: so, why does it have to be printed out like it's a list? 22:54:06 because I want it follow the same format as the input 22:54:25 what input? 22:55:04 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:55:59 time waste 22:56:06 don't worry about it 22:56:11 jamface: If we know what you're trying to achieve at a slightly higher level, we can help you choose among the possible approaches  some of which might be unfamiliar to a new lisper. 22:57:03 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:44 jamface: If it's for debugging, for example, you might want to use INSPECT, then you can navigate around the data structure interactively. 22:58:40 troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:56 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:23 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-180.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:18 jamface: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118435 23:02:37 i still don't understand why does it have to be printed in this way 23:06:36 -!- vokoda` is now known as vokoda 23:06:56 -!- vokoda [~user@host109-153-55-169.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:06:56 vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has joined #lisp 23:11:50 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-243-31-32.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:13:39 jeti [~user@p548E9EB0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:39 huangjs [~user@p1043-ipbf2507marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:15:13 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:44 -!- troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:28 dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-180.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 23:16:54 bencc [~user@bzq-84-111-72-192.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:40 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:17:45 -!- obita [~obita@138-38-159-194.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:46 are there some blogs about companies using lisp in production? 23:17:54 -!- StephenFalken [email@89-180-232-197.net.novis.pt] has quit [Quit: Time left until the Epochalypse: 27yrs 1wk 3days 9hrs 55mins 46secs] 23:18:20 they're all probably busy using lisp 23:18:35 Busy using Java 23:19:01 qfr: you some troll? 23:19:28 bencc: maybe, but maybe businesses don't really want to tell. 23:19:32 No, I was merely pointing out that Java is the most widely used language in the IT industry right now 23:19:39 hi, in SBCL, i need to read from a utf-8 stream, but the inputs are not controlled by me and it contains malformed utf-8 byte sequences. SBCL will give me a stream-decoding-error and I tried to called the attempt-resync restart. However, there are cases (though rare) that after several resync attempt, I got a type-error (a minus number that is not of type (MOD 1114112)), which seems to be a bug in SBCL. ~~~ well, my question is, what' 23:19:39 the recommended way to parse utf-8 strings in SBCL? 23:19:46 StephenFalken [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 23:20:11 i recommend to fix the bug 23:20:13 I know nothing about lisp and I want to understand in what areas it is used 23:20:23 bencc: in all imaginable 23:20:26 are there web frameworks? 23:20:40 aplenty 23:20:44 stassats: would you recommend to start with common lisp or something else? 23:20:56 stassats: could you name a good framework? 23:20:57 bencc: Start in what sense? 23:21:01 As your first programming language? 23:21:06 bencc: i surely would, but i'm biased 23:21:16 stassats: so please do :) 23:21:48 ok, hereby i officially recommend common lisp 23:21:51 qfr: I know many languages but I just heard about lisp 23:22:11 stassats: can you recommend a web framework in lisp? 23:22:24 no 23:22:40 qfr: Ok. Good to know. 23:23:12 is there a good web framework in lisp? 23:23:24 bencc: you could start w/o a framework, using hunchentoot/yaclml 23:23:25 oh the bots are dead. 23:23:46 bencc: http://www.cliki.net/Web has a list of frameworks 23:23:47 bencc: http://weblocks.viridian-project.de/ 23:23:48 bencc: Check out http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ not a webframework, but a nice book. 23:23:54 bencc: that's no problem. I'm using it currently in 3 areas: 1. xml file processing for submission of database entries (in a logistics firm) 2. a financial budgetting tool (in a bank) and 3. modelling for analysis of process execution/flows 23:24:01 thanks 23:24:16 the latter also in logistics 23:25:34 bencc: others have used it in the insurance industry. 23:25:48 I'm sure there's more. 23:25:52 games! 23:25:59 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 23:26:04 ah. and semantic web analysis. 23:26:27 one of my ABCL users is actually doing that with ABCL! 23:26:36 it's almost like it was some sort of general purpose language. 23:26:54 starts to look like it. 23:27:10 It was even used for AI last year. 23:27:17 are people forgetting we're just a research language meant for AI? 23:27:27 :-) 23:27:29 night. 23:27:35 ehu: slow and interpreted at that 23:27:36 say I want to remove the word "equals" from my output, how do i do that using (format " ~a ~a") 23:28:02 I used Lisp in my Day Job to do some analysis of an n-dimensional satisfiability problem. 23:28:07 bencc: for some industry stories you can check http://franz.com/success/ or http://www.lispworks.com/success-stories/index.html 23:28:27 jamface: are you sure we're not doing your homework? 23:28:30 jamface: What is your output? 23:28:47 ha no 23:28:53 ok. 23:28:59 well, I'm still off. 23:29:06 happy ehu, ehu 23:29:14 adeht: thanks. reading 23:29:52 say output was string: /home/srb 23:30:06 and I wanted it to output: home srb 23:30:17 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:24 Good morning everyone! 23:30:33 how does that relate to removing the word equals? O.o 23:30:33 (forment ~a need something here ~a 23:30:42 sorry just using examples 23:30:55 trying to get my head around format 23:30:55 jamface: I'd split the string at / and then write some nice format recipe for looping over the resulting list of strings. 23:31:02 can't find it on the web 23:31:08 My naive solution would be to iterate over the string and ignore any in an "ignore" list. 23:31:24 http://lispdoc.com/?q=format 23:31:47 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:32:50 or I s'pose one could just replace all /'s with #\Space and use ~a 23:33:10 -!- ziga` [~user@BSN-176-147-69.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:19 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:33:25 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:35:01 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.157.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:04 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:35:21 pmurias [~pawel@89-78-165-237.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 23:36:11 is there a better pattern matching library then fare-matcher? 23:36:31 ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has joined #lisp 23:37:23 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:39 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has quit [Client Quit] 23:38:11 quite likely, you just need to implement it 23:39:38 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.206.226] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:39:50 pmurias: what would make it better? 23:40:58 having an equal so that i can match against a string would be nice 23:41:33 the docs could use some improvement but i mangaged to figure most of it out 23:42:24 is extensible, so you can add your own syntax, tests and binders. 23:43:06 pkhuong: is that on quicklisp? 23:43:11 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 23:43:13 probably not. 23:45:02 -!- jamface [~jamface@138-38-157-211.wireless.bath.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:47:45 not yet! 23:51:21 -!- bencc [~user@bzq-84-111-72-192.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:53:49 -!- jeti [~user@p548E9EB0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:57:22 Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486] has joined #lisp 23:57:42 Are all current CL GCs stop-the-world? 23:58:31 stop-the-world? 23:58:48 vlion: don't do anything else while gc is happening 23:59:14 is it ok if use http://www.labri.fr/perso/strandh/Teaching/MTP/Common/Strandh-Tutorial/indentation.html as an indenting guideline? 23:59:14 i can't even breathe when gc is running 23:59:16 quek [~ancient@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:27 *slyrus_* waits for the melt-with-you GC