00:00:14 -!- mega1 [~mega1@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:02:10 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 00:02:19 -!- adhoc [~adhoc@ppp118-210-132-42.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:04:33 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:07 -!- quek [~ancient@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:09:50 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:22 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:11:41 nilly [~nil@c-98-247-253-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:53 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:16 codelurker [~codelurke@66.71.230.217] has joined #lisp 00:14:13 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:15:05 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 00:16:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-65-44.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:33 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:27:43 Phoodus [~foo@174-17-240-55.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:20 bga_ [~bga@ppp91-122-51-148.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 00:30:57 overmind88 [~overmind@ppp5-194.tis-dialog.ru] has joined #lisp 00:31:42 -!- overmind88 [~overmind@ppp5-194.tis-dialog.ru] has left #lisp 00:32:19 Vivitron_ [ad4c080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.76.8.10] has joined #lisp 00:33:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:33:53 -!- bga_ [~bga@ppp91-122-51-148.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has left #lisp 00:36:14 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@187.74.37.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:37:40 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:39:15 <^flying-high^> Hmm, has anyone considered using Lisp and an association list to code up something capable of writing up production reports + balance sheets? 00:39:45 <^flying-high^> I've been reading my gf's accounts notes, and it's actually very simple stuff. Very automateable. 00:39:57 i suppose you could. same as any other language. 00:40:15 generic-function's? 00:41:42 <^flying-high^> What do you mean "generic-function's?" ? 00:41:53 that's what GF means. 00:41:58 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:02 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:42:14 <^flying-high^> Ah. Nah I meant girlfriend. 00:42:23 <^flying-high^> That apostrophe at the end had me confused though. 00:45:01 -!- sm` [~s@77.28.112.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:46:43 I realise I may be speaking blasphemy here, but is there a graphical object-inspector for Common Lisp like that of Smalltalk? 00:47:07 That would be really nice to have right now for messing with this matrix. 00:47:09 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:47:18 aidalgol: clim has something like it, but it's definitely not as great as what's in, say, squeak 00:47:30 aidalgol: you may be able to tweak the slime inspector to do what you want, though 00:47:35 depends on your tolerance to elisp (-: 00:47:51 clim is a cl implementation, right? 00:48:10 How do I use the slime inspector, anyway? 00:48:21 clim is the CL Interface Manager 00:48:34 it's a GUI substrate that has been around for a while 00:48:51 invoke the slime inspector with C-c I, then enter the expression whose result you want to inspect 00:49:03 *aidalgol* refers to cliki. 00:49:21 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@124.76.12.110] has joined #lisp 00:50:00 Thanks, antifuchs! 00:50:50 you're welcome. good luck (: 00:51:14 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:30 What's a simple way to fill a row or column in a matrix with a certain value? 00:55:47 kdr2 [~kdr2@61.48.43.236] has joined #lisp 00:56:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-117.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 00:58:25 aidalgol: (loop for r from 0 below (array-dimension a 0) do (setf (aref r c) value)) 00:58:51 I figured it would involve loop. 00:59:11 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C663.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:59:56 (defun fill-row (row index val) (when (< index (length row)) (setf (aref r index) val) (fill-row row (1+ index) val)) 01:00:15 but use the loop-approach 01:00:34 -!- gravicappa 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[~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night.] 02:40:04 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-148-73.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:55 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-156-233.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:41:12 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:48:05 astoon [~astoon@92.243.187.229] has joined #lisp 02:52:36 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:53:46 -!- cky is now known as Zba2Y7Pr3 02:54:01 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@173-10-44-57-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:56:25 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:56:47 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:40 quek [~ancient@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:55 pnq [~nick@ACA23EE2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:01:44 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:02:09 banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has joined #lisp 03:06:38 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-129-201.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:52 -!- heloehlo [~bfouts@66.83.65.206.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:18:09 -!- quek [~ancient@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:24 jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:25 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:32:16 sm` [~s@77.28.112.143] has joined #lisp 03:36:07 bougyman [bougyman@pdpc/supporter/gold/bougyman] has joined #lisp 03:36:32 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:43 evening folks 03:40:05 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 03:40:14 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:41:34 -!- jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #lisp 03:42:38 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:42:39 banisterfiend`` [~horse@118.82.186.189] has joined #lisp 03:47:04 hello slyrus 04:00:23 hey beach, how are things in vietnam? 04:01:02 slyrus: So far so good. I am still not quite set up properly to work comfortably on any of my Lisp projects, but I am getting there. 04:01:30 csmax [~max@p5DE8F5A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:48 slyrus: How about yourself? How are things? 04:01:58 ah, good. so pretty soon we'll have a fully complete sicl, CLTL3 and a clim3 spec? :) 04:02:29 slyrus: Yes, and all the bugs of Climacs, Gsharp, and McCLIM will be taken care of. 04:02:30 things are good, even a little bit of time for lisp hacking every now and then 04:02:36 awesome! 04:02:58 -!- ^flying-high^ [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:00 slyrus: Any planned travels? 04:03:11 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 04:03:22 no, other than various ski trips in the western US during the winter 04:03:30 time to put the kids to bed. biab. 04:04:17 -!- csmax_ [~max@p5790F559.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:06:15 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:35 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:07:06 bitflip [~user@ip98-184-186-177.tu.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:24 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:07:29 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 04:12:19 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:12:32 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ouhczwxvxdvoyzni] has joined #lisp 04:14:52 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:19:11 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 04:19:53 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 04:20:04 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 04:23:30 Hello. 04:23:41 hello pocket_ 04:24:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:24:19 Is there any sbcl's git repositry? 04:24:56 I found some sbcl git repositry. But It is official? http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl.git 04:24:59 git://git.sbcl.org/sbcl.git 04:25:15 That's a mirror of the official one, iirc 04:25:42 Thanks 04:27:14 minion hasn't been her for a month now. 04:27:26 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:27:44 peth [~anon@unaffiliated/peth] has joined #lisp 04:28:25 Do the bots run on cl.net? 04:28:49 -!- banisterfiend`` [~horse@118.82.186.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:29:24 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:34:08 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@203.213.202.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:34:17 curi [~curi@c-67-188-58-92.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:05 -!- curi [~curi@c-67-188-58-92.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:38:56 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:39:26 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined 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joined #lisp 07:09:13 -!- kruft [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:11:19 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-40-222.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:19 -!- pocket_ [~masato@p3239-ipbf2310hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:15:25 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:15:53 -!- rien_home [~unkanon@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:15:58 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-17-240-55.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:17:00 rien_home [~unkanon@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:18:42 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:18:59 good morning 07:19:50 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:21:40 mvilleneuve: it's 8:30pm on the evening of the 7th 07:24:14 -!- apox [apox@scorn.csh.rit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:27:10 banisterfiend: you must be mistaken, it's 8:26am 07:28:46 ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has joined #lisp 07:30:24 -!- younder [~john@9.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:30:57 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:36:03 apox [apox@scorn.csh.rit.edu] has joined #lisp 07:41:47 -!- biTT [~frinnn@i59F62F27.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:42:40 timor [~timor@port-92-195-80-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:42:41 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:42:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:42:41 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:42:44 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: It's getting dark, too dark to see] 07:43:55 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-80-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Client Quit] 07:45:29 I have a long s-exp I need to evaluate twice, the second time with two function arguments swapped. How should I do this? 07:47:44 what are you trying to do? 07:48:38 Iterate over rows in a matrix, then columns. 07:50:46 what is the type of the matrix? 07:52:00 A square (rows=cols) two-dimensional array. 07:52:05 HG` [~HG@85.8.90.240] has joined #lisp 07:54:37 -!- bitflip [~user@ip98-184-186-177.tu.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:56:47 -!- Pursuit [~pursuit@host-067-131-054-207.dhcp.fewpb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:57:24 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:57:26 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:58:38 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:59:53 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:00:31 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:01:00 biTT [~frinnn@i59F60AF0.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:03:38 ASau [~user@95-27-211-180.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:08:23 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-211-180.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 08:09:09 -!- espadrine [86d6a50b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.134.214.165.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:10:37 ASau [~user@95-27-211-180.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:10:53 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-40-222.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:11:58 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-1-77.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:12:46 -!- beach [~user@116.118.47.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:15:40 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-89-107.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:16:22 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23EE2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:18:09 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ouhczwxvxdvoyzni] has left #lisp 08:18:28 banisterfiend`` [~horse@118.82.186.189] has joined #lisp 08:19:22 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:21:41 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-qduzviqszhvydttv] has joined #lisp 08:21:43 mega1 [~mega1@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 08:22:52 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:23:34 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 08:24:02 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-143-225.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:19 hmpf, I keep getting this error on the c-l.net CFFI git repo upon 'git fetch origin': fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly, fatal: protocol error: bad pack header 08:24:20 08:24:49 Anyone have any clue why this could happen? Running git fsck on the remote repo doesn't seem to help. 08:27:48 I'm accessing the repo via SSH, btw, fetching via git:// works. 08:29:17 addled [~addled@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:03 -!- aintme [~user@2.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #lisp 08:32:42 push works, oddly enough 08:32:55 aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:38:06 How do I specify and enforce the type of function arguments? 08:39:09 aidalgol: check-type is one way, defmethod is another 08:39:19 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 08:39:35 Also see declaim. 08:40:01 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 08:41:01 aidalgol: also, in SBCL, DECLAREs will be enforced in the default optimization settings. 08:41:06 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7564f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:39 Is seven consecutive closing parens poor style? 08:41:49 No. 08:42:16 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-148-96.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:42:28 But collapse them all together. 08:42:37 e.g., (... (...)) 08:42:45 Don't put each on its own line. 08:42:51 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:43:33 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:2] has joined #lisp 08:44:20 Zhivago: do you think haskell is a superior language to common lisp 08:44:49 banisterfiend``: define superior :) 08:44:50 oh god 08:44:51 seriously? 08:45:38 worst troll comment ever 08:45:58 luis: one stands on the top of a hill urinating onto the head of the other and making salacious comments to the others girlfriend 08:46:36 *sigh* 08:46:45 banister: For which metric of superiority? 08:46:58 Zhivago: in the sense that one is worse and the other is better 08:47:14 Meaningless gibberish. 08:47:18 hehehe 08:47:20 Is a fish better than a frying pan? 08:47:25 Fix your brain and try again. 08:48:07 zhivvy... 08:48:37 sometimes you can be so...hurtful 08:50:12 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:51:21 banister: It is beneficial for you to hurt when you do something wrong. 08:52:33 but such grievous pain i bear, i am crying lemon juice of bitter waiting, bitter lips. I race about the house insane dragging my braids across the floor from the kitchen to the bedroom 08:52:55 Shut up and stop whining like a schoolgirl. 08:54:04 what sphinx of cement and aluminium bashed open your skull and ate up all your brains and imagination? 08:54:46 moloch! 08:55:17 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 08:55:34 -!- Zhivago has set mode +q banisterfiend``!*@* 08:55:39 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 08:56:46 heh 08:57:20 once again we're saved from the usual illuminating in depth comparison of programming languages 08:58:33 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-140-172.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:59:56 I suppose that mental retardation can be considered a blessing in that regard. 09:00:31 snearch [~snearch@f053003011.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:01:02 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.30.238] has joined #lisp 09:05:04 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-140-172.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:05:25 sharps [~hazel@ip-118-90-50-156.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:05:33 -!- addled [~addled@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:06:13 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 09:06:40 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:07:12 -!- bakkdoor|afk is now known as bakkdoor 09:07:28 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:08:31 Can someone help me with this? http://pastebin.com/rvvg9aPL 09:08:56 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:09:06 <_3b> aidalgol: 1st thing... put ** around the names of variables created with defvar 09:10:01 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:10:16 <_3b> and put DO/MAXIMIZE/COLLECT loop keywrds at the beginning of a line, not at the end 09:10:24 and if you have to export them export them like (export '*my-variable) 09:10:36 (export '*my-variable*) 09:11:45 <_3b> no, export them with defpackage... not sure what that has to do with the code though 09:12:44 seen it in gsd/foreign-array/foreign-array.lisp, and still not corrected.... 09:15:31 <_3b> aidalgol: probably the problem aside from readability is that you don't use k anywhere that i can see 09:15:49 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 09:18:34 bsod1 [~osa1@85.100.78.230] has joined #lisp 09:18:35 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:18:42 -!- ebzzry_ [~ebzzry@112.202.239.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:19:02 -!- vokoda` [~user@host86-163-162-255.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:22:49 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 09:23:14 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.125.170] has joined #lisp 09:24:33 Oh, right, k. Duh. 09:24:50 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:25:03 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:31 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053003011.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:28:05 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 09:30:01 -!- kdr2 [~kdr2@61.48.43.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:07 -!- aSean_ [~aSean@134-208-39-197.ndhu.edu.tw] has quit [Quit: ] 09:31:39 vokoda [~user@host86-163-162-255.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:31:47 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-29-135.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 09:32:07 _ism [~frinnn@i59F60AF0.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:33:24 Why this macro evaluates to 4 ? (defmacro x () '(+ 2 2)) 09:34:03 <_3b> prljavi_hari: why wouldn't it? 09:34:23 <_3b> looks like it expands to (+ 2 2) which evaluates to 4 09:34:38 it has ' sign before expression 09:34:55 <_3b> right, otherwise it would expand to 4, which would also evaluate to 4 09:35:03 binod [~binod@88-134-63-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:35:24 <_3b> macros return a form that is evaluated in place of the macro 09:35:37 -!- biTT [~frinnn@i59F60AF0.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:35:43 it should expand to (+ 2 2) 09:35:54 <_3b> which it does 09:36:02 <_3b> try (macroexpand '(x)) 09:36:21 prlavi_hari: it's being evaluated after macroexpansion 09:36:37 try double-quoting it, like this: 09:36:47 (defmacro x () ''(+ 2 2)) 09:37:11 sorry, got your name wrong, 09:39:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:39:40 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@124.76.12.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:40:21 hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:40:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-117.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:41:01 when I put '' then it evaluates to (+ 2 2) 09:41:36 but in listener only one ' is sufficient 09:41:52 Do you understand what a macro is? 09:42:01 yes 09:42:07 your macros should be evaluated twice 09:42:08 to save confusion you might better think of the macro expanding to a form 09:42:19 then that form will be evaluated 09:42:22 if you can get (+ 2 2) with one quote, then something isn't working 09:42:42 prljavi_hari: Why are you confused that (+ 2 2) evaluates to 4? 09:43:02 it should be macroexpanded, which evaluates the body of the macro to get code, then that code should be evaluated 09:43:23 and each of those removes one level of quoting, and with no quoting, the code runs 09:43:28 then i have to use `` ? 09:43:41 no, backticks do nothing different from quotes here 09:43:49 try it and see 09:43:55 ok 09:44:03 thanks 09:44:20 prljavi_hari: what result are you actually expecting? 09:44:20 backquotes are used with commas, for selective unquoting 09:44:43 I know 09:44:58 but i never saw '' 09:45:06 before 09:45:56 'x is (quote x), so ''x is? 09:46:06 (quote (quote x)) 09:46:20 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:46:29 it turns up when you have more than one or two levels of evaluation 09:46:36 like when writing macro-writing macros 09:47:07 caution: macro-writing macros may cause your head to implode 09:47:18 beach [~user@116.118.7.230] has joined #lisp 09:47:20 yes, but i'm writing macro writing code 09:47:48 sharps: It's best to let people answer for themselves. 09:47:55 ? 09:48:15 oh, you were asking prljavi_hari what that was 09:48:19 sorry about that 09:49:22 (quote (+ 2 2)) returns 4 09:49:37 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.30.238] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:49:38 that's confusing 09:49:38 No, it doesn't. 09:49:54 (quote (+ 2 2)) returns (+ 2 2) 09:50:01 If you then evaluate (+ 2 2), you get 4. 09:50:11 The confusion is in your head. 09:50:14 prljavi_hari: only if you evaluate it twice 09:50:26 in listener it does 09:50:30 therefore, your code is being evaluated twice 09:50:50 prljavi_hari: It is commonly called the REPL 09:50:53 No, (quote (+ 2 2)) does not give you 4 in the repl. 09:50:58 Try it again. 09:51:03 but when i call macro with that iit returns 4 09:51:20 You do not call macros. 09:51:20 that would be because macro bodies are evaluated twice 09:51:28 You expand macros. 09:51:39 once at macroepansion time, and then the expanded code is eval'd 09:51:54 Use macroexpand to see what your macro expands to. 09:52:11 <_danb_> prljavi_hari: 2 evaluations occur when you call your macro; only one when you call a defun 09:52:40 <_danb_> oh shit, sorry.... 09:52:42 ok, i'll try that 09:52:43 -!- _danb_ is now known as _dnb_ 09:53:19 (defmacro x () '(+ 1 2)) 09:53:30 (macroexpand '(x)) -> (+ 1 2) 09:53:31 yes 09:53:49 (eval (macroexpand '(x))) -> 3 09:54:11 (defmacro y () ''(+ 1 2)) 09:54:13 and the repl both macroexpands and evals the macro body 09:54:19 (macroexpand '(y)) -> ? 09:55:30 '(+ 1 2) 09:55:48 (eval (macroexpand '(y))) -> ? 09:56:08 (+ 1 2) 09:56:12 Ok. 09:56:22 ok, i get it 09:56:33 thanks 10:02:12 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 10:06:49 H4ns```` [~user@pD4B9E7F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:01 -!- H4ns``` [~user@pD4B9EA25.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:10:33 -!- bakkdoor is now known as bakkdoor|afk 10:16:05 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:16:14 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19:54 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:21:18 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.125.170] has quit [Quit: reboot time!] 10:21:28 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:22:40 mvilleneuve: Around? 10:25:20 christoph_debian [~christoph@DSL01.212.114.250.148.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:55 wooaah is abcl sloow on mips 10:27:29 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:31:44 -!- vokoda [~user@host86-163-162-255.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:16 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.84.196.72] has joined #lisp 10:41:13 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:41:32 heloehlo [~bfouts@66.83.65.206.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:39 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:50:54 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.125.170] has joined #lisp 10:51:57 tfb [~tfb@92.41.32.205.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:54:21 christoph_debian: which JVM?4 10:54:33 *JVM? 10:58:11 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h88-206-143-104.vokby.se] has joined #lisp 10:59:53 openJDK on both sides 11:00:13 like a factor 500 difference between x86 and mipsel after eliminating differences in CPU speed 11:01:27 aputtu [~aputtu@host-88-83-2-150.adsl.gl] has joined #lisp 11:02:40 taking 10 minutes to start up 11:02:52 on a GHz CPU 11:05:56 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 11:08:05 ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has joined #lisp 11:09:46 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has quit [Client Quit] 11:10:38 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:12:49 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 11:12:52 If I'm having to restart my lisp image frequently when I'm debugging is that a sign I'm doing something wrong, or is it common practice to make sure the image state doesn't deviate too far from what you think it is? 11:13:16 <_3b> depends on if you are working on ffi 11:13:40 <_3b> if not, you are doing something wrong (but it still can be a good idea to restart regularly anyway) 11:13:56 <_3b> well, depends on what you mean by 'having to' 11:15:12 It's in the context of OpenGL + ffi - I have code that frequently works on the first run, but not the second - something to to with resetting state cleanly 11:15:52 <_3b> yeah, dealing with ffi/external resources can be hard enough to get right to not bother 11:16:11 <_3b> still worth trying though, much nicer when you can just keep the app running indefinitely :) 11:16:15 any graphical editor for CLisp? 11:16:40 <_3b> binod: you mean editor for code, or for graphics? 11:16:47 I have a process for building special everything-already-loaded images, that's how many of that sort of problem I've run into :/ 11:17:00 that way, I can restart the image in a second or two 11:17:11 _3b, for code 11:17:14 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:17:55 <_3b> binod: not sure what you mean then, most of us use emacs for that i think, some commercial IDEs, or vim, or maybe hemlock or climacs 11:18:24 <_3b> i think eclipse has some lisp plugins too 11:18:37 _3b, thanks a lot 11:18:43 eclipse lisp plugin was buggy for me 11:18:46 YMMV 11:19:06 <_3b> yeah, i think pretty much all the options have problems :/ 11:19:12 more than buggy really, it just plain didn't work 11:19:14 gemelen_ [~shelta@shpd-92-101-148-96.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:19:34 emacs and SLIME is relatively problem free 11:19:55 xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:20:49 i can even use it without many problems on windows now, though any previous issue was probably my own fault anyway 11:23:02 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:23:26 binod: By "graphical editor", do you mean one where you can drag and drop things that represent code, and connect them with little lines? And by Clisp, do you mean CLISP, the implementation of Common Lisp, or do you mean Common Lisp, the language (which we usually abbreviate CL)? 11:26:26 binod: An editor such as the one I was trying to describe doesn't make much sense for Common Lisp. It can be somewhat useful for dataflow-like languages like Max, but I have observed that users spend most of their time resizing and moving boxes around, as opposed to doing real work. 11:27:28 beach, i am asking for common lisp and i am not expecting that much that i can drag and drop and connect it also. if there is some thing then it is also fine. I am asking for some editor specially designed for lisp, so that there will be automatic completion of parenthesis.Like in python there are some IDE for it . 11:27:57 beach: I thought that one graphical editor back on some LispM worked fine 11:28:11 http://oi56.tinypic.com/9rtzfd.jpg 11:28:13 (but it probably didn't allow one to fiddle with boxes :D) 11:28:17 binod: OK, then Emacs+SLIME is probably the right advice. 11:28:36 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-148-96.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:28:58 beach, is i have emacs installed in my system. is the SMILE is plugin for emacs? 11:29:10 -!- gemelen_ [~shelta@shpd-92-101-148-96.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:29:11 Sometimes i feel like i'm living in a different world, i have no idea what you guys are talking about with the drag and drop lisp graphical IDEs 11:29:20 binod: SLIME, not SMILE. 11:29:38 binod: And for Emacs, I think they are called "subsystems", not "plugins". 11:29:50 SMILE would have a been a much nicer name :) 11:30:03 drdo, :) 11:30:11 drdo: And not very memorable. 11:30:11 superior mode interaction list for emacs? 11:30:40 that'd be ace to have such a list :) 11:31:00 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-148-96.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:31:17 binod: These days, once you have your Lisp system installed, use quicklisp to install things like SLIME. 11:32:05 also SMILE makes me think of something related to handling MIME data in Email 11:32:19 beach, thanks 11:32:29 p_l|backup: I'd visit a doctor 11:32:38 SMILE makes me think of this: :) 11:32:38 drdo: I'm going to 11:33:31 SLIME - Worldwide Leader in Tire Care 11:33:33 :P 11:34:00 ifaria [~user@2001:250:4001:143:222:68ff:fe76:88e4] has joined #lisp 11:34:30 drdo: me too, except when there's an enclosing (let ((context (apply #'join (apply #'find-context '(emacs developement environment common-lisp))))) ... :) 11:34:59 ah, should have been *current-context* :P 11:35:13 I always smile a bit when i type an open parenthesis followed by a keyword 11:36:43 reminds me I wanted to ask if any in here changed their '9' and '0' keys to be permanently shifted for '(' and ')' 11:37:37 insomniaSalt: people who do similar modification usually change the keys (on standard PC keyboard) that represent #\[ and #\] 11:38:18 interesting, since [ and ] don't need shift 11:38:57 at least on a us-layout keyboard 11:39:31 which I proudly possess, being a german quite unusual, no AltGR no umlauts, etc... 11:39:53 afk - going off for a weekend 11:40:14 *insomniaSalt* was off for the week and now starts to live again for 3 days :> 11:40:29 my keyboard actually has dedicated ( and ) keys 11:40:40 -!- Intensity [VOKDVyUpGI@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:40:53 horribly position so as to be of little use for lisp though 11:40:58 chapter 5 of land of lisp here i come! 11:41:03 right above the numpad 11:41:08 Guthur: horrible! 11:41:15 dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-180.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:42:32 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 11:42:51 one loadkeys /usr/share/keymaps/i386/dvorak/dvorak-lisp.map.gz to rule them all 11:45:13 kdr2 [~kdr2@123.122.121.174] has joined #lisp 11:46:27 -!- binod [~binod@88-134-63-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:50:30 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 11:51:16 sm` [~s@77.29.18.22] has joined #lisp 11:52:01 Krystof [~csr21@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:54:13 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Client Quit] 11:56:37 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:57:50 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:59:55 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:04:00 cor135 [~rixin@76.5.19.181] has joined #lisp 12:04:52 beach: yes 12:06:20 greenm0nk [~chatzilla@117.192.193.12] has joined #lisp 12:06:31 Just started SICP and using ubuntu 10.10. Which dialect of lisp is suitable to do the exercises in the book? 12:06:41 it's for scheme 12:06:48 greenm0nk: ask #scheme 12:07:33 stassats`: no response :) so i came to lisp 12:07:51 <_dnb_> greenm0nk: probably any decent dialect of scheme will do; but for instance try racket (formerly known as plt-scheme) 12:07:51 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:14 _dnb_: thanks! 12:08:17 greenm0nk: then i suggest Common Lisp 12:08:43 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 12:08:58 <_dnb_> ubuntu like debian might not have racket available yet; so either install plt-scheme (mzscheme) or get racket and install manually (not too hard) 12:09:57 carlocci [~nes@93.37.197.205] has joined #lisp 12:13:10 greenm0nk: any would do the job. The book is old, so, it ought to work on implementations designed at that time 12:13:27 Axioplase_: thank you! 12:13:44 mvilleneuve: When I am reading the loop code, I have an urge to add comments wherever there is something I don't understand initially. Would that mess up your work if I did? 12:14:17 -!- greenm0nk [~chatzilla@117.192.193.12] has left #lisp 12:15:10 greenm0nk: just know that while any scheme will be good enough for SICP, all implementations have specificities that make them more or less useful in real like. A toy scheme is ok for SICP, but do not think that all scheme implementations are toys. 12:16:09 beach: not at all! On the contrary, that would help indicate what should be improved 12:16:16 Toys are good 12:16:16 (I mean, some have sockets, exceptions, threads, you name it.) 12:16:31 mvilleneuve: OK. I'll do that then. 12:16:51 drdo: I wish your nick had an "l" instead of "r". That would made a great statement. 12:17:29 I don't follow 12:17:30 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:17:49 "d(i)ldo: toys are great" 12:18:09 *anyway* 12:20:47 benny` [~benny@i577A3F2A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:22:14 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2B25.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:23:24 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:30:45 -!- benny` is now known as benny 12:31:16 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:36:44 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 12:40:15 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:39 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@114.84.196.255] has joined #lisp 12:41:00 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.84.196.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:45:17 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B52D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:38 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:47:43 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:47:44 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:47:47 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:47:48 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:47:59 -!- ifaria [~user@2001:250:4001:143:222:68ff:fe76:88e4] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:48:57 ifaria [~user@2001:250:4001:143:222:68ff:fe76:88e4] has joined #lisp 12:50:04 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 12:50:15 -!- H4ns```` is now known as H4ns 12:51:04 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 12:51:32 -!- jomatv6 [~jomat@2001:470:9935::badc:ab1e] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:52:10 jomatv6 [~jomat@2001:470:9935::badc:ab1e] has joined #lisp 12:54:02 WonTu [~WonTu@p57B52BE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:13 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:54:15 -!- WonTu [~WonTu@p57B52BE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 12:54:28 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:59:08 xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.81.99] has joined #lisp 12:59:12 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:59:51 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 13:00:27 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Client Quit] 13:01:04 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 13:02:30 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 13:03:18 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Client Quit] 13:03:51 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 13:04:01 -!- xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.81.99] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:04:16 xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.81.99] has joined #lisp 13:05:37 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:39 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:10 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:2] has joined #lisp 13:06:40 urandom__ [~user@p548A73A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:21 tcr1 [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:07:41 valium97582 [~daniel@187.35.234.61] has joined #lisp 13:07:46 francogrex [~user@109.130.104.254] has joined #lisp 13:08:24 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Client Quit] 13:09:01 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 13:09:34 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-29-135.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:10:10 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-39-99.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 13:10:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:10:54 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Client Quit] 13:11:26 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 13:13:21 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Client Quit] 13:13:21 marijnjh [~user@p5DDB3C7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:26 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:39 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@249.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:15:50 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:19:31 How to get the name of a variable passed to a function or a macro, instead of its value ? 13:19:55 you don't pass variables 13:20:00 prljavi_hari: that's only possible for macros, not for functions 13:20:25 and how ? 13:21:01 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 13:21:16 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:18 *_3b* wouldn't say it is possible for macros either 13:21:40 you can pass the symbol, by quoting : (my-func 'symbol) 13:21:46 <_3b> the value passed to the macro might be the name of a variable, but you still can't tell where that value came from 13:22:14 <_3b> passing names of things /instead/ of values is fine though 13:22:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-117.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:22:18 amb007 [~a_bakic@249.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:19 <_3b> (or /as/ values) 13:22:20 flip214: it would then be impossible to access the lexical binding of 'symbol inside of the function. 13:22:48 in any case, one shouldn't care about names in ordinary code 13:22:48 prljavi_hari: do you understand macros and functions? if not, grab a book and read. 13:22:50 yes, right. But I understood that he wanted the name - so he has to pass the name 13:25:07 I read the practical common lisp, I practicing now 13:25:55 is there any other book worth reading ? 13:26:37 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@249.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:45 prljavi_hari: certainly, loads of them. "on lisp" is particularily useful if you want to learn something on macros. it is a book for grown-ups, though. 13:27:15 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.104.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:51 Krystof [~csr21@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:27:52 I know pretty much now, I'll try on-lisp 13:28:38 I tried it before but it was to advanced for me 13:28:56 ok, thanks 13:29:50 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 13:30:34 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30:51 amb007 [~a_bakic@249.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:15 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 13:31:57 someone here on the channel said thats Graham's lisp style is not seen as good. Why? (i am reading On Lisp actually...) 13:32:19 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-180.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:32:39 <_3b> churib: he seems to object to some major CL features 13:33:16 -!- xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.81.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:34:13 _3b: which ones? 13:34:29 <_3b> also tends towards excessive terseness if i remember right (or might just be thinking of arc) 13:34:33 <_3b> LOOP, CLOS 13:34:36 churib: i don't like his terseness, his avoidance of clos. 13:34:38 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:35:24 Okay, i will be warned :) 13:35:24 dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-180.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:35:27 churib: in general, debating style is not very fruitful. i think graham's books contribute a lot of very good ideas and gave me a lot of insight into the nature of common lisp. 13:36:12 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.125.170] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:36:31 H4ns: btw, are you Hans Huebner? 13:36:39 churib: affirmative 13:37:43 -!- _dnb_ [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:37:43 H4ns: i heard the interview of you from chaosradio express which brought me to lisp - thanks! :) 13:37:54 churib: my pleasure 13:38:27 I thought CCC people were hopeless ASM/C hackers :p 13:38:36 qfr: i am not "ccc people" 13:39:28 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-39-99.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 13:39:40 xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.81.99] has joined #lisp 13:42:22 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 13:43:41 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:44:12 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 13:44:29 -!- xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.81.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:44:50 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7564f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:48:13 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:50:56 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has joined #lisp 13:51:54 "soylent green is [ccc] people" 13:53:45 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Quit] 13:54:04 xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.81.99] has joined #lisp 13:54:36 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.142.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 13:56:20 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:57:37 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:37 -!- rien_home is now known as rien_ 13:59:09 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:2] has joined #lisp 13:59:10 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:59:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:00:36 hi 14:00:49 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 14:01:18 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-68-160.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:01:39 please I've got this problem: (apply function (list :a 1 :b 2 :c 3)), but function has got only three parameters say f(a b c), how can I fix this? 14:01:59 thanks 14:02:11 froggey [~froggey@2002:5200:bb48::820:18:7072] has joined #lisp 14:02:11 -!- froggey [~froggey@2002:5200:bb48::820:18:7072] has quit [Changing host] 14:02:11 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 14:02:28 Posterdati: are you looking for the "do my homework" channel maybe? 14:02:34 Posterdati: (apply function (list 1 2 3)) instead. 14:02:48 Xach: I can't list is with keys 14:02:53 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:02:54 <_3b> use destructuring-bind or getf to extract the args and pass them by hand? 14:03:01 <_3b> or define a wrapper function that take keys? 14:03:04 have the function take keyword arguments :a :b :c? 14:03:14 _3b: I don't know how they could be 14:03:17 <_3b> or map over the list extracting every other arg and hope they are in order? 14:03:26 _3b: I don't know how many they could be 14:03:55 sharps: no 14:04:18 Posterdati: Why don't you paste the real code instead of the made-up code that doesn't demonstrate the problem very well? 14:04:24 Paste to paste.lisp.org. 14:04:50 <_3b> yeah, need more context to suggest anything useful 14:05:10 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-96.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:07:09 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118395 14:08:00 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 14:08:18 Xach: *branches* could be read from a file 14:08:21 ok, so what was the problem with this code? 14:08:29 Xach: along with *nodes* 14:08:39 sharps: look at :model 14:09:05 sharps: this list is a description of the model used for that circuital element 14:09:16 <_3b> wrapping the model functions to take keyword args would probably safest/easiest 14:09:24 Posterdati: Don't write IF with only one branch. Use WHEN or UNLESS. (if (not x) ...) should be (unless x ...), and (if (not (null x)) ...) should be (when x ...) 14:09:52 Xach: ok 14:10:07 Posterdati: also, don't supply a third argument to the dolist control form when you don't use the loop's return value later on. 14:10:09 <_3b> otherwise pass a mapping of keywords to argument positions along with the model, and use that to extract the args to pass to the function 14:10:31 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.125.170] has joined #lisp 14:10:35 Posterdati: i'd agree with the suggestion to use descructuring-bind 14:11:04 Posterdati: instead of (getf x :foo) ... (getf x :bar), use (destructuring-bind (&key foo bar) ... 14:11:05 _3b: look, models may have different parameters list 14:11:36 <_3b> Posterdati: right, thats why i suggested what i did instead of suggesting hard coding it with destructuring-bind 14:13:23 Is tehre any difference between ; and ;;? I noticed that emacs auto indents them in different ways 14:13:52 qfr: ;; is usually written for comments that are not in the first column but which are on their own line 14:13:56 <_3b> qfr: ; is usually used for end of line comments, ;; for inline comments, ;;; for top level 14:13:58 qfr: ; is for comments that follow other code 14:14:02 Ahh 14:14:03 qfr: no, they're the same to the parser 14:14:14 but there are stylistic reasons to use them 14:14:14 It's convention, not semantics 14:14:17 _3b: destructuring-bind then? 14:14:18 yep 14:15:24 Posterdati: what he means is that you should not access the :model values with getf at all, but call the different handler functions with apply and have the handlers accept the specific model's paramters as keyword arguments. 14:15:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:16:03 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:16:41 H4ns: so I've to write an handler to call the final model? 14:16:57 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:17:55 cvandusen [~user@68-90-30-246.ded.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:18 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:26 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:19:46 Posterdati: i don't understand what you mean by "final model" here. without really knowing what you do, i'd suggest to make your code more generic by not accessing the definition data structure with getf. rather, have functions that accept keyword arguments and call these functions with sublists from your definition. 14:20:16 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:17 ok, understood 14:21:04 Posterdati: beyond that, you could use quotes to make your definition more readable, i.e. '((:name "R1" ... instead of (list (list :name "R1" 14:21:09 aidalgol [~aidalgol@2002:453d:f72::1337:2] has joined #lisp 14:21:35 Posterdati: you may also want to use symbols instead of strings, in particular for type names in your definition. that way, you can easily dispatch on them. 14:21:41 H4ns: it is already done 14:21:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-117.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:22:22 Posterdati: (i.e. (defmethod foo ((type (eql :function)) &key amplitude frequency time) ...) 14:22:37 <_3b> don't change the list -> ' unless the (setf getf) stuff isn't modifying that though 14:22:41 peth [~anon@unaffiliated/peth] has joined #lisp 14:23:14 _3b: I've to change data in the list 14:23:26 Posterdati: ok, then forget what i said about the quoting. 14:23:36 Posterdati: i'd separate definitions from state, though. 14:24:08 _3b: models are differential equations so they need past state to calculate the new one 14:24:44 Posterdati: that does not automatically mean that you need to store the state in the model definition. 14:25:42 H4ns: will you be in america any time soon? Maybe a Lisp meeting could be timed to coincide. 14:26:10 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:19 Xach: i'll be in cambridge from 24-jan through 28-jan. 14:26:43 H4ns: but it is much more simply 14:27:36 -!- aidalgol [~aidalgol@2002:453d:f72::1337:2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:27:45 Posterdati: okay - i can't judge because i don't know enough about the problem that you are solving. it's just general advice. 14:27:59 H4ns: anyway thanks 14:28:14 Xach, sharps, _3b: thanks 14:28:44 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:28:50 H4ns: a meeting must be called! 14:29:20 -!- banisterfiend`` [~horse@118.82.186.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:29:41 H4ns: I modified model functions to have keys in parameters :) 14:30:01 Xach: i'll be there, but i'll not be able to sustain consciousness after 8pm i fear |) 14:30:30 -!- kdr2 [~kdr2@123.122.121.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:31:05 bah, time enough for sleep on the plane 14:31:07 brodo [~brodo@p5B024AD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:32 Xach: you young lads with your reduced sleep schedules! 14:36:10 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:37:09 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:2] has joined #lisp 14:37:18 Xach, any chance that you'd include cl-sha1 in quicklisp? 14:37:21 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:37:35 BTW, http://www.cliki.net/admin/search?words=sha1 gives no answer; without the "1" it works. Strange. 14:38:11 flip214: There is a chance if you create a github issue for it on the quicklisp-projects repo. 14:38:20 flip214: otherwise i might forget 14:38:22 ok, thank you 14:39:55 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:40:35 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:04 -!- xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.81.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:42:58 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:55:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:55:26 shall I use let* instead of let? tx - http://paste.lisp.org/display/118395#1 14:55:58 Posterdati: you should use destructuring-bind :) 14:56:17 no I mean for let problem 14:56:29 Posterdati: what do you think? 14:56:30 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 14:56:32 Posterdati: other than that, use let* if you need it, i.e. when variables bound later need to access bindings established in the same scope. 14:56:52 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:00:39 mrBliss [~user@83.101.76.38] has joined #lisp 15:01:54 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-148-96.vologda.ru] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 15:02:09 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 15:03:03 do we have any kind of 'do what I mean date parser' in CL OSS land? 15:03:15 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-148-96.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 15:03:18 -!- sharps [~hazel@ip-118-90-50-156.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has left #lisp 15:04:16 net-telent-date sort-of does that, and there's another one that was a port of some ruby library, but i can't remember the name 15:04:38 Chronicity, I guess 15:04:42 yes, i think that's it. 15:05:47 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: It's getting dark, too dark to see] 15:07:50 will it understand "around noon fortnight"? 15:08:03 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 15:10:20 sacho [~sacho@95-42-102-104.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 15:10:22 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 15:10:58 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:16 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:13:39 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@S01060026f32c2837.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 15:14:36 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 15:14:53 (defconstant +fortnight-seconds+ (* 14 24 60 60)) 15:14:55 so, maybe 15:15:01 -!- mrBliss [~user@83.101.76.38] has left #lisp 15:16:24 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:04 may I use (incf i) instead of (setf i (+ i 1)) ? thanks 15:17:17 Posterdati: yes. 15:17:44 so I'm removing if - progn and use when or unless 15:19:05 Posterdati: cond may also be useful 15:19:06 -!- CrazyEddy [~melittolo@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has left #lisp 15:19:11 Posterdati: right. always use the most specific operator. progn should be rarely used except in macro expansions. use cond instead of if when you need to have multiple forms in then/else. 15:20:13 CrazyEddy [~melittolo@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 15:20:27 There's a program called lisp-critic that's nice for learning some stylistic programming 15:20:41 it'll detect things like (not (null ...)) 15:21:39 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7564f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:40 What's the quickest way to check if all characters in a string are equal to x? 15:22:11 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #lisp 15:22:21 (find #\x string :test-not #'char=) 15:22:22 <_3b> find with test char/= ? 15:22:31 heh 15:22:42 H4ns: cond wiill only execute the first t condition discarding the others 15:23:47 Posterdati: right. 15:24:01 Ah, thanks, works in CL but elisp doesn't like the # 15:24:11 Debugger entered--Lisp error: (invalid-read-syntax "#") 15:24:18 (if x (progn (a) (b)) (c)) => (cond (x (a) (b)) (t (c))) 15:24:27 qfr: #emacs 15:24:29 qfr: This channel is for common lisp. 15:24:44 :( 15:25:28 i'm too lazy to join #emacs, it's ?x there 15:27:20 wanderingelf [~user@c-24-131-74-250.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:04 -!- peth [~anon@unaffiliated/peth] has left #lisp 15:30:28 -!- ifaria [~user@2001:250:4001:143:222:68ff:fe76:88e4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:30:34 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:32:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:31 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:34:58 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 15:35:24 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:26 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:03 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 15:38:35 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@85.100.78.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:43 Is there an easy way to get a (simple-array (unsigned-byte 8) (*)) from "a string"? 15:39:00 flip214: babel:string-to-octets 15:39:03 coerce says "can't be converted". 15:39:09 thank, 'll take a look 15:40:23 if it's ascii: (map '(simple-array (unsigned-byte 8) (*)) #'char-code string) 15:40:46 simo163 [~quassel@85.136.15.136.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:49 How do execute something x times? dotimes already does more than I need, I don't need to have an iteration variable 15:42:53 *do you 15:43:13 Oh, loop can do that, right? 15:43:15 I already forgot 15:43:40 (loop repeat x do ...) 15:43:44 Thanks 15:44:04 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:49:45 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 15:50:14 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:51:02 -!- retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has quit [Client Quit] 15:51:32 Is simo163 spamming you, too? 15:52:50 nope 15:52:50 No. 15:52:54 spam? what mean? 15:53:12 Joining a channel and then starting to PM people links 15:53:18 Out of the blue 15:54:12 amm 15:54:12 so that i spamed you.. waaaw i wanna help 15:55:02 Posting links to Facebook is probably the opposite of helping 15:56:01 simo163/qfr: please keep the channel out of the loop of your off-topic conversation. 15:56:34 ohhh qfr 15:56:40 az [~az@p4FE4E816.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:51 any idea about generic lists ?? 15:56:52 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:56:56 Was just checking if it's a bot, usually they get glined then 15:57:22 qrf forget it 15:57:40 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 15:58:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:59:14 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:00:10 what is the diference between atoms and lists? 16:01:25 "The essential difference between atoms and lists was that atoms were immutable and unique. Two atoms that appeared in different places in source code but were written in exactly the same way represented the same object, whereas each list was a separate object that could be altered independently of other lists and could be distinguished from other lists by comparison operators." 16:01:45 I had previously only encountered that term in Erlang hmm 16:02:27 what term? 16:02:31 Atom 16:02:39 oh 16:02:42 In a programming context, obviously :p 16:03:01 Lisp has obviously been using it a lot longer 16:03:16 clhs: atom n. any object that is not a cons. ``A vector is an atom.'' 16:03:40 i'm made out of atoms 16:03:42 I am new to Lisp. I come from C and Tcl. How do I include a library; in particular, SB-BSD-SOCKETS, so that I can access those functions? 16:04:02 stassats`: you are a bot and so surely only electrons 16:04:04 Dagyde: (require #:sb-bsd-sockets) 16:04:26 dlowe: require is a function. 16:05:00 Dagyde: one way to get them into the running system is (require 'sb-bsd-sockets). You can also list them as a dependency in your asdf system file. 16:05:20 Then, when your system is loaded, sb-bsd-sockets will be loaded first. 16:05:25 Xach: yes? 16:05:39 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:51 dlowe: doesn't seem likely that #:sb-bsd-sockets is bound. 16:07:49 Xach: yeah, but there's no reason to intern it into the current package, either 16:08:03 then you need to quote at least 16:08:17 dlowe: convenience is a proper reason. 16:08:40 We can battle this out when we meet on the 25th. 16:09:19 Dagyde: Notice that inclusion in C is actually quite different from what happens there 16:09:19 Xach: ah, good! :) i was about to ask. 16:09:25 doh, I see what you mean. 16:09:59 In C it's based on actually inserting the code of the file included where that preprocessor instruction was used 16:10:19 vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has joined #lisp 16:10:45 So you can have a file which only contains "}" and then you go int main(){\n#include "blah.c" 16:10:49 And it would be a legal program 16:11:09 H4ns: I think maybe this would be a good time for simply getting together for a meal & a beer. 16:11:40 And lisp battles, of course. 16:11:44 Xach: i'm game. just don't make it start too late 16:12:00 gotta run, see you! 16:12:09 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:12:44 ^^loser^^ [~ircap@77.Red-81-38-14.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:48 -!- ^^loser^^ [~ircap@77.Red-81-38-14.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 16:14:41 vokoda`` [~user@host86-147-199-248.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:15:15 what about the generic list? 16:16:14 -!- vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:16:29 sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:31 simo163: what about it? 16:17:18 i found that a generic list is an atom too 16:17:35 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.122.166] has joined #lisp 16:17:38 its something like this dor expamle '(0 (1 (2 (3 (4 5) 6) 7) 8) 9) 16:17:50 simo163: That is not an atom. 16:18:05 -!- balooga [~00u4440@pool-173-55-252-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:18:12 so? 16:18:47 can format iterate over a vector, like with ~{ ~} over a list? 16:18:52 flip214: No. 16:19:04 so (coerce ... 'list) ... ok, thanks. 16:19:06 with ~// 16:19:11 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-dwjwncwektnmgcnh] has joined #lisp 16:19:16 simo163: So when you wrote "a generic list is an atom", and gave that example non-atom, that's incorrect. 16:19:35 what does "generic" even mean? 16:20:14 can formats "~a" take a subset of a string? ie. from character 4 to character 12? 16:21:07 flip214: No. 16:21:07 i'd try using subseq 16:21:22 subseq doesn't want a string, AFAIK 16:21:24 thanks anyway 16:21:27 flip214: it does. 16:21:34 flip214: a string is a sequence of characters. 16:22:09 well, it just gave me an error? perhaps because it was not a string but a (vector (unsigned-byte 8)) 16:22:36 taht is also a sequence. 16:22:43 a list like '(1 2) is an atom? 16:22:44 What error did you get when using subseq on it? 16:22:48 simo163: no! 16:22:49 simo163: No. 16:22:57 no list is like atom! 16:23:10 s/like/an/ 16:23:18 well 16:23:23 except NIL, of course 16:23:23 I haven't found the atom distinction to be very useful in the real world 16:23:43 Atom is about the divisibility of text. 16:23:43 so what is an atom exactly? :) 16:23:55 simo163: it's a non-list :p 16:23:56 simo163: That has already been explained. Anything that is not a cons. 16:23:56 simo163: not-a-cons 16:23:57 When you are parsing lisp you have atoms and forms. 16:24:05 dlowe: nil is a list and an atom 16:24:11 hello <- this is an atom. (hello world) <- this is a form. 16:24:22 It doesn't have a deeper meaning than that. 16:24:26 amm 16:24:41 so 1 is an atom 16:24:44 Sure. 16:24:47 A is an atom 16:24:49 Sure. 16:24:54 #(1 2 3) is an atom 16:25:02 simo163: You can stop. No need to enumerate the atoms. 16:25:11 # ?? 16:25:11 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:16 :) 16:25:23 Everything that isn't a form is an atom. 16:25:29 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:47 but #(2 3 4) seems like a list right? 16:25:49 stassats`: (atom nil) --> t (sbcl) 16:25:52 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:14 churib: thanks for checking 16:26:23 simo163: No, it doesn't. 16:26:32 actually i have never seen the symbol # srassars` 16:26:45 simo163: Go away and read a book and lots of code. 16:26:54 simo163: Your gibberish is tiring. 16:28:46 Xach i don't care about if you are an admin here, but i will say go to read how to speack with people 16:29:24 buh 16:29:46 nowhere in the rules of speech does it say you have to be overly nice, hehe 16:29:51 bsod1 [~osa1@85.100.78.230] has joined #lisp 16:30:47 but it does say you should try to be correct in a technical forum 16:31:02 but in reality the definition for atom was so short and simple there was nothing to be discussed 16:31:11 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 16:31:20 is there a list of all read macros? 16:31:23 i posted the whole definition from the CLHS earlier 16:31:24 well, it's the fact that simo163 has no clue what he's talking about that caused him to discuss it :) 16:31:38 churib: "all"? 16:31:43 churib: of all standard reader macros, see CLHS 16:31:49 churib: section 2.4 16:31:54 thanks 16:31:56 http://l1sp.org/cl/2.4 that is. 16:32:15 you can lookup reader macros in slime, C-c C-d # 16:32:29 churib: note that you may have libraries that create other reader macros 16:32:52 And implementations may stick things in there too. 16:32:56 and they may be specific to specific readtables 16:33:05 rahul: yes, i mean the built in ones 16:34:07 your implementation may build in more than the standard requires, but you can start with the CLHS 16:34:50 rahul better no answer 16:35:00 sorry guys ;) 16:40:10 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:43 -!- simo163 [~quassel@85.136.15.136.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:19 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-180.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:41:23 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 16:41:50 pnq [~nick@AC81C9BF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:44:14 rme: yay, gb fixed it. tell him 'thanks' for me! 16:44:48 Xach: No problem. We had our weekly conference call yesterday, so I brought it up. 16:45:32 I'm in Windows 7. (require :sb-bsd-sockets) and (require 'sb-bsd-sockets) at the top of my source code both tell me undefined function: SOCKET-CONNECT. So I created a .sbclrc file and it says (require 'sb-bsd-sockets), but still the functions for sockets are undefined. Any ideas? 16:45:42 I didn't know if the special case in the compiler macro would be the right thing, but I guess it was. 16:47:05 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-dwjwncwektnmgcnh] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:47:13 Dagyde, (require) won't import the symbols into your current package (AFAIK). 16:47:24 try sb-bsd-sockets:socket-connect 16:49:22 Dagyde: you should learn the difference between files, packages, and systems 16:49:44 statonjr [~statonjr@rrcs-70-60-193-169.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:54:02 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:57:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:57:16 -!- Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:58:13 Dagyde: I think sb-bsd-sockets is one of the contribs that still doesn't work on Windows. Could be wrong. 16:58:16 Anybody know for sure? 16:58:24 pmurias [~pawel@89-78-165-237.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 16:58:48 Or is that just in Dmitry's threads branch... 16:58:50 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:59:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-117.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:19 if i want call the function once for each element (like mapcar) but have the index in addition to the element what should i use? explicit recurssion? 17:00:33 -!- sm` [~s@77.29.18.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:49 You could use incf ... 17:01:16 pmurias: (loop for i from 0 for element in list ...) 17:01:18 (loop for l in list for i upfrom 0 17:05:04 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-140-172.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:02 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-234.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:06:12 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.32.205.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 17:06:49 sm` [~s@77.28.125.252] has joined #lisp 17:07:27 Is there some standard function which makes (setq x nil) or (setq x t) even shorter btw? Just checking 17:07:45 Or setf if you so wish 17:07:56 you can use a macro 17:08:12 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:52 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 17:08:55 but generally a plain setf is good enough 17:09:44 -!- Dagyde [~Dagyde@c-98-239-65-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:37 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:11:53 Bronsa [~BRACE@host156-180-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:12:55 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-qduzviqszhvydttv] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:16:56 poindontcare [~poindontc@fwsm.comcastnets.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:24 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:42 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:02 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:21:26 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:23:13 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:26:05 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:27:19 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 17:28:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:30:43 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:31:13 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.122.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:31:17 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-83-229.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 17:32:43 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:57 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.118.163] has joined #lisp 17:33:03 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:33:07 froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:12 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:36:31 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:13 -!- sm` [~s@77.28.125.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:42:49 what kind of variable is defined when you just setf it? 17:44:11 not covered by the standard 17:44:35 you cannot portably just setf a variable and depend on what happens. Since it's a nice thing to be able to do though, some Lisps make it easy to do it, while others behave in a weird way. 17:45:23 lichtblau: oh, thanks. just wanted to know because clisp allows it and sbcl allows it with a warning 17:45:30 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:45:32 adeht: thank you too 17:47:34 SBCL does the right thing, except for the warning. Most other Lisps do the same, without a warning. (As far as I recall, CMUCL is the only one that, as a configuration option anyway, did something truly annoying.) 17:50:42 -!- pmurias [~pawel@89-78-165-237.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:55:54 jagguli [~steven@60.254.43.173] has joined #lisp 17:56:07 -!- jagguli [~steven@60.254.43.173] has left #lisp 17:58:38 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:09 StephenFalken [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 18:01:44 -!- felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:02:01 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.30.238] has joined #lisp 18:02:13 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B024AD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 18:02:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:05:25 -!- cor135 [~rixin@76.5.19.181] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:07:12 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 18:08:53 sm` [~s@77.28.125.252] has joined #lisp 18:09:36 Phoodus [~foo@174-17-240-55.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:17 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:11:21 sabalaba [~sabalaba@adsl-69-212-37-80.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:59 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.125.170] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:15:22 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 18:16:04 hello lispers 18:16:16 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81C9BF.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:16:23 I have a question about `sxhash'. 18:19:07 The spec says that mathematically = values for two `sxhash'd strings in different Lisp images of the same implementation. 18:19:14 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has left #lisp 18:19:58 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:20:14 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:18 will evaluate to the same value. 18:20:28 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:21:11 is there a question in there? 18:21:17 Does this mean I can rely on the value of (sxhash "some-string") for persistence 18:21:34 Or is it only in compiled fasls? 18:21:43 mon_key: rely in what way? 18:21:58 it means that the hash value for "some-string" is going to be the same every time it's computed on a given implementation. 18:22:22 I'd like to write the `sxhash'd values out to a file for later comparison. 18:22:26 rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:54 My concern is if the value might change from SBCL version X.1 to X.N 18:23:21 IOW if a later version of SBCL is in fact a different implementation? 18:23:45 francogrex [~user@109.130.104.254] has joined #lisp 18:23:50 in theory I guess it could change, but in practice it probably won't. 18:24:07 the spec leaves the means for computing the hash up to the implementer. 18:24:25 but that's the kind of thing that is probably done once near the beginning, and likely not often revisited. 18:25:08 It doesn't seem to me like sxhash can be used for much at all, in practice. 18:25:51 it'd certainly be more useful if it were extensible 18:29:12 drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:29:32 I have objects with :name slots that are more or less constants and which i've used for years in RDBMS systems as UUIDs b/c they rarely change but it occasionally desirable that they do (like maybe once every 2 or three years, if ever). I'd like to calculate the identity of these names for periodic verification and I would prefer not relying on string matching to do this. Is using sxhash for this reasonable or should i bark up some 18:29:33 other tree? 18:29:35 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:30:37 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:32:14 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:35:10 xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 18:37:20 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 18:43:06 ziga` [~user@BSN-176-185-155.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:08 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:45:12 The other question is SBCL's `sxhash' informed by a platforms most-positive-fixnum, e.g. 64-bit versus 32-bit x86s? 18:46:05 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:46:10 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:35 e-user [~e-user@port-87-234-24-237.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:47:03 /join #lispgames 18:47:08 oops sorry 18:48:24 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:48:33 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:53 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:49:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:49:32 mon_key: yes. 18:49:35 IOW assuming "implementation" means a particular build version, will return from a 32bit (sxhash "string") differ from a 64bit (sxhash "string") where each is built from identical sources? 18:49:47 mon_key: yes 18:49:59 Xach: Thanks. 18:50:02 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:39 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.30.238] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:58:35 Blkt [~user@93-33-114-53.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:59:46 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-102-104.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:23 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:05:38 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 19:11:23 snearch [~snearch@f053003011.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:11:26 https://github.com/epicvrvs/emacs-config/blob/master/configuration/key-functions.el <- is the use of lambdas down there dumb? Can you make it shorter? 19:12:46 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:06 qfr: you should try #emacs (: 19:13:06 can you ask the fine people in #emacs? 19:13:21 but spoiler: yeah, the use of lambda there is dumb. (-: 19:13:39 Why? :[ 19:14:18 check out flet in the cl package. 19:15:08 Anyone seen drewc lately? 19:15:39 antifuchs ohh that's pwetty 19:15:54 qfr: (while (memq (char-before (point)) '(32 9 )) (delete-backward-char 1)) 19:17:08 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:28 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:19:34 mon_key that doesn't delete anything when I hit backspace with non whitespace :o 19:20:38 Stuff like flet is wonderful though, it's amazing how expressive Lisp is 19:21:12 And I've only seen a miniscule fraction of it 19:22:08 there's also labels too 19:22:18 which is useful if the functions are recursive 19:22:30 qfr: OK you should ask on #emacs. FWIW your fncn doc says delete over all whitespace. 19:22:48 mon_key sorry, I didn't write that description, it's inaccurate 19:24:18 Intensity [GcB66NA67Z@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 19:25:12 qfr: http://paste.lisp.org/+2JD0 19:25:12 19:27:01 That behaviour is still different from the function I posted :p it deletes one character too much 19:27:50 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:29:18 -!- vokoda`` is now known as vokoda 19:29:32 -!- vokoda [~user@host86-147-199-248.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:29:32 vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has joined #lisp 19:29:32 -!- e-user [~e-user@port-87-234-24-237.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:31:11 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 19:31:30 good evening everyone 19:31:39 Hei 19:32:18 rme: real-world tests indicate it's more than 2x faster. thanks again! 19:32:39 Xach: Glad to help. That was an easy one. 19:32:55 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7564f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:20 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:33:32 Hmm when I call a function with the wrong argument types by accident it probably won't be discovered by SBCL until I execute the function in question, right? 19:33:43 hi Blkt 19:33:55 qfr: depends on the function, inlining and type declarations. 19:34:10 sacho [~sacho@95-42-85-91.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 19:34:58 By "type declarations", are you referring to the CL features which let you specify the types of arguments or something? 19:35:30 I'm referring to the CL feature which lets you specify the type of functions. 19:35:36 reading one's old code can be painful... 19:40:21 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:40:37 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-17-240-55.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:45:52 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has left #lisp 19:46:00 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 19:46:16 timor [~timor@port-92-195-80-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:24 Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-64-11.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:50:50 redline6561 [~user@adsl-190-196-246.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:54 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:32 -!- sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:35 sluggo_ [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:42 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:53:15 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:53:34 -!- wanderingelf [~user@c-24-131-74-250.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:54:46 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 19:58:19 dlq22e5xcv6h962a [~maxgasner@173-11-96-165-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:53 -!- marijnjh [~user@p5DDB3C7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:01:55 slyrus_: yup 20:02:06 Xach: rme: nice work! 20:07:18 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@adsl-69-212-37-80.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:07:52 Phoodus [~foo@174-17-240-55.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:29 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:14 hi fe[nl]ix 20:11:41 hi fe[nl]ix who never messaged me back 20:11:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:12:12 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-17-240-55.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:13:43 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:03 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:15:55 ZabaQ [~Zaba@26.87-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:41 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-80-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:40 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@26.87-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has left #lisp 20:20:42 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 20:22:46 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-114-53.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:28:04 -!- dlq22e5xcv6h962a [~maxgasner@173-11-96-165-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:28:55 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:00 dlq22e5xcv6h962a [~maxgasner@173-11-96-165-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:48 hm...when I press C-c C-k in emacs in what order are forms in a file compiled? I have a weird error about an undefined function. 20:30:07 I thought this would be a warning only, plus the function is in the same file. 20:30:41 timor [~timor@port-92-195-80-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:36 cYmen: are you using a function in the expansion of a macro? 20:31:43 yeah 20:31:46 cYmen: if so, you must ensure that the function is defined at macroexpansion-time. 20:32:02 cYmen: which isn't the default, if they're in the same file at the toplevel. put the function in an eval-when to make sure it's defined in time. 20:33:05 eval-when...I vaguely remember reading about that in PCl. 20:33:17 Thank you! 20:33:32 it should suffice to put your defun in (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (defun ...)) 20:33:43 -!- aputtu [~aputtu@host-88-83-2-150.adsl.gl] has left #lisp 20:38:29 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:39:35 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-80-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:40:46 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-80-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:41:07 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:42:37 Does the compilation buffer ever annoy any of you? Did you resolve it somehow? 20:43:04 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-80-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:10 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 20:45:42 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 20:45:52 I tend to mostly use M-n / M-p in the source buffer 20:46:06 -!- jomatv6 is now known as jomat 20:47:13 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.104.254] has left #lisp 20:47:36 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 20:50:27 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:52:22 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:52:24 -!- pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:52:44 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:56:54 _danb_ [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:57:16 pdelgallego__ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:57:19 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:57:21 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:58:45 timor [~timor@port-92-195-80-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:46 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:01:19 tmh [6367fcc4@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 21:01:26 Greetings lispers! 21:02:18 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:02:22 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-168-252.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:05 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-80-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:09 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:03:50 hello, tmh. 21:04:04 Hey Xach! 21:04:14 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-169-170.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:20 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:06:19 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@rrcs-70-60-193-169.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:11:15 b 21:11:19 oops 21:15:56 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.30.238] has joined #lisp 21:16:27 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-68-41.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 21:16:54 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-68-41.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:17:07 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-68-41.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 21:18:41 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@187.35.234.61] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:21:21 lundis [~lundis@gprs-internet-ff08f000-37.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:22:01 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:23:39 younder [~john@9.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:26:09 on Land of Lisp, chapter 18 - Lazy Programming: a lazy list of integers -> *integers* is defined recursively. My question is, will this lazy thing be STACK hungry? 21:27:40 tcleval: the whole point of making it lazy is that it is only evaluated as far as you access it 21:27:50 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@201.53.192.190] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:28:30 tcleval, yes 21:28:54 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 21:29:08 *pattern* just wrote his first recursive function in lisp 21:29:10 yay! 21:29:13 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053003011.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:29:15 But when you have GB's of RAM who cares 21:29:24 cYmen: I see... so it was not intent to produce huge lists. Coz lists can be big (on heap) but function calls are bonded to how much stack you have 21:30:13 so lazy lists cant be bigger than stack, even if you have a lot of heap 21:30:21 tcleval: I don't see how you can get to that conclusion. 21:30:23 so are lists .But now by the heap size.Duh 21:30:34 What makes you think that lazy lists are allocated on the heap? 21:30:45 erm sorry 21:30:47 on the stack 21:31:01 not the lists, but the recursive funcion calls 21:31:12 lazy means allocated on demand 21:31:35 Perhaps you should read 'Land of Lisp' 21:31:45 I am on it right now.. :-) 21:32:11 I was just looking around .. I ll dig on it later. from the beggining 21:32:31 the lazy thing called my atention 21:32:58 -!- mega1 [~mega1@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:33:11 tcleval: (Usually) the CDR of a lazy list is produced on first access 21:33:35 tcleval: producing another lazy list whose CDR again will be produced on first access 21:35:04 It's similiar to a generator in python 21:36:37 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:38:21 thx tcr generator is exactly corect 21:42:52 duh correct is with two t's and the exactly bit is redundant, excuse me for my appalling English 21:43:04 tcleval: a lazy cons is returned before recursively computing the tail; you get an automatic trampoline. 21:43:18 txh pkhuong 21:43:21 rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:33 tcleval: That is the gravest insult! 21:44:01 ? 21:44:04 oops 21:44:06 thx 21:44:16 s/txh/thx/ 21:44:31 is it correct now Xach ? 21:44:42 What's wrong with "Thanks"? 21:44:52 IDK U TELL me 21:44:55 :-) 21:45:08 Who knows what world the Xach moves in. I don't. 21:45:15 what does txh stand for? 21:45:33 Thanks withe error. 21:45:40 tcleval: I'm pretty sure xach was joking (: 21:45:53 Needless abbreviations are a cognitive burden on readers. And other things such as googlability. Your messages are written once and potentially read hundreds of times. 21:46:29 I know. 21:46:56 I hate not being able to aces a editor. 21:46:56 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:47:05 md1 [bca764f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.167.100.241] has joined #lisp 21:47:08 access 21:47:33 You see what I mean 21:47:58 I might suggest learning touch-typing. It's a very useful skill for computer professionals and the effort required to acquire it is seriously overstated. 21:48:23 You won't be tempted to use silly abbreviations anymore. 21:48:45 Hexstream: I understand your point. 21:49:21 Unfortunately I program a lot in C which is impossible to touch type on a Norwegian keyboard. 21:54:22 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:54:57 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-2E21CFB1.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gz] 21:56:04 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 21:59:06 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 22:03:34 -!- md1 [bca764f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.167.100.241] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:05:34 Hexstream: Abbreviations can sometimes make reading easier 22:05:42 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 22:06:14 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-68-41.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:06:16 drdo: I dispute this idea for most use cases. 22:06:20 did anyone have a gastric bypass? and how did it go for you? 22:06:33 katesmith: this is hardly the place to ask this question. 22:06:45 Hexstream: I'm not claiming it is always good, but they do improve readability in some cases 22:07:04 drdo: While reducing it in the vast majority of cases. 22:07:46 in lisp you can have zero-length names, ||, ultimate abbreviation 22:08:32 stassats`: I see what you mean, but intuitively this is a 2-characters name. Damn your overly literal mind! 22:08:52 (princ '(defun || (||) (sqrt ||))) => (DEFUN () (SQRT )) 22:09:01 Hexstream: you just need to print it nicely 22:09:54 I must say, you're the go-to guy for funny technical idiosyncrasies. 22:11:42 *churib* votes for stassats` as xkcd-author 22:12:16 err 22:12:45 just kidding :) 22:13:20 also, (string= '#:|| "") (-: 22:13:31 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:14:37 not as funny as (string= () "NIL") => T 22:14:58 true 22:15:33 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 22:18:54 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 22:19:09 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 22:20:06 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-96.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:00 -!- Bronsa [~BRACE@host156-180-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:30:10 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 22:30:18 Bronsa [~BRACE@host156-180-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:32:49 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 22:33:14 valium97582 [~daniel@187.57.19.253] has joined #lisp 22:34:01 are those even idiosyncrasies? 22:34:27 #:|| is a string-object, no? 22:34:41 same with () technically 22:34:50 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@85.100.78.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:53 Quadrescence: it's a string designator 22:34:59 string= uses string designators. 22:34:59 erm yes 22:35:06 not object, designator 22:36:02 #:|| is primarily an uninterned symbol. 22:36:52 it's primarily a smiley face. 22:37:03 no, that's secondary 22:37:04 dude with a very wide mouth and a beret. 22:37:11 no 22:37:11 I seriously doubt that. 22:37:15 lol 22:37:17 Now i can't unsee that :S 22:37:48 drdo: wait till I tell you what () looks like 22:38:14 a convex lens. 22:39:02 Dear lispers, I have a small problem: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118408 22:39:28 Can anyone enlighten me as to what I'm doing wrong? 22:39:29 redline6561: y-or-n-p 22:39:40 redline6561: aww, you didn't use y-or---stassats` go away 22:39:48 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.118.163] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:40:06 redline6561: are you trying to write an AUR helper? 22:40:37 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.118.163] has joined #lisp 22:40:41 valium97582: I'm writing a patch for an AUR helper called paktahn. 22:40:55 is this code somehow related to archlinux? 22:40:56 stassats`: I would love to but I need control of the message as well as support for more than yes or no. 22:41:12 tcleval: yes 22:41:27 you have the control of the message 22:41:30 tcleval: tcleval: Yes, it is for paktahn. http://github.com/skypher/paktahn 22:41:32 AUR interface valium97582 ? 22:41:42 tcleval: yes 22:41:47 humm nice 22:41:59 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 22:42:15 redline6561: cool, didn't know there were people rewriting yaourt. 22:42:19 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.90.240] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:42:22 -!- Bronsa [~BRACE@host156-180-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:42:27 tcleval, valium97582: It supports AUR updates and works fairly well at present though Leslie and I would love other hackers to help extend it and/or clean it up. 22:42:36 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: peace!] 22:42:40 Please feel free to get in touch with me about it and any questions on the code, fork, etc. 22:43:09 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 22:43:11 redline6561: is it a lisp application? 22:43:12 valium97582: Paktahn's been around a while and is in the AUR itself. I've been working on it now and then since last October when Leslie brought me on. 22:43:35 redline6561: the symptom you describe doesn't happen to me. 22:43:38 tcleval: Yes. SBCL-only at the moment though it supports CCL assuming you don't care about SIGINT handling. 22:43:58 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 22:44:05 antifuchs: Really? Are you trying in SLIME? 22:44:09 redline6561: also, I suppose you could rewrite that loop to use case and be once-and-only-once 22:44:15 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:44:16 no, I was running on the command line 22:44:36 doesn't happen with slime either 22:44:47 antifuchs: Ah, maybe that's it. You're saying change the cond to case and put it in the loop? 22:44:50 redline6561: did you try ,restart ? 22:45:03 Quadrescence: Think that's the thing to do. Thanks. 22:45:33 something like that. let me rewrite (: 22:45:44 redline6561: ccl now has a thing called WAIT-FOR-SIGNAL that you might find useful. 22:46:04 redline6561: also I think it should return T or NIL for :continue and :cancel respectively. 22:46:14 redline6561: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118408#1 22:46:44 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.118.163] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:47:15 rme: Ah, many thanks. I'll pick the port back up soon and try to finish it. 22:48:11 Quadrescence: That makes sense. Do you think *-p predicates should return T or NIL always or just usually? 22:48:22 thezakmanDS_ [~nds@201.19.141.76] has joined #lisp 22:48:26 redline6561: did you read my paster?!!! 22:48:38 s/r// s/!!// 22:48:49 stassats`: Thanks! Very interesting and very different. 22:48:56 stassats`: oh, you're faster. that's better than mine (: 22:49:00 ie. than what my feeble brain would've come up with 22:49:03 ;) 22:49:31 redline6561: I annotated it too. stassats' solution looks a bit better, though. 22:49:32 redline6561: I think it should nearly always, maybe with some exceptional values or a second value in VALUES 22:49:38 no unnecessary (return)s everywhere 22:49:55 stassats`: why is "thereis" there? 22:50:07 Quadrescence: where should be? 22:50:57 Quadrescence: What's your reasoning? Is there a naggum piece on this or something I should read? I agree pretty completely for exported stuff but wonder about exceptional circumstances... 22:51:11 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:51:15 Quadrescence: And internal functions. 22:51:25 antifuchs: Thanks, having a look now. 22:51:45 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has joined #lisp 22:51:51 redline6561: Just my opinion; I think -p should imply T/NIL most of the time; yes-or-no, true-or-false 22:52:21 Quadrescence: ignoring the digit-char-p outlier, of course (: 22:52:47 pnq [~nick@172.140.252.31] has joined #lisp 22:52:48 Quadrescence: Gotcha. 22:52:54 stassats`: oh, I didn't know thereis was a loop keyword. Maybe you should have used :thereis instead ;) ;) 22:53:26 i hate :keywords in loop 22:53:32 what why? 22:53:35 -!- thezakmanDS_ [~nds@201.19.141.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:57 should hatred be reasonable? 22:54:03 usually 22:54:10 but not necessarily 22:55:06 stassats`: I'm not wild about them either though can understand the reasoning of wanting keywords to stand out. 22:55:25 I hate them because they stand out :-) 22:55:42 Btw, thanks again everyone. tcr: Exactly. :D 22:55:46 distracting from the more interesting part of the loop expression 22:55:56 the non-standard bits 22:56:11 tcr: but how can the other parts be interesting if you don't have the semantic context??? 22:57:12 you get the semantic context by reading the expression. the keywords are still there, just not highlighted. 22:57:21 it's like upper-casing sql keywords. blergh. 22:57:38 The eye and the human mind are very good at spotting patterns 22:57:45 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:07 you're used to loop clauses  what your mind should be focused on is the non-pattern bits 22:58:52 in my emacs keywords aren't highlighted 22:58:56 ah, there's the bug I introduced 8 years ago and never fixed... 22:59:09 aren't keywords somehow safer? 22:59:11 Yes, the thing what makes it annoying is the special fontification of keywords 22:59:27 which I quite like on most other occasions though :-) 22:59:39 Quadrescence: safer for what? 22:59:43 I don't know. 22:59:54 I just thought people bumbled in here a few weeks ago about how keywords are better 23:00:03 (for loop) 23:00:07 HG` [~HG@85.8.90.240] has joined #lisp 23:00:18 they were on crack 23:00:28 you're expecting agreement from a non-community. 23:00:41 i usually agree with myself 23:01:53 We should all be using loopless anyway. 23:01:58 and/or SERIES. 23:03:03 ITERATE ftw. :) 23:03:09 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-117.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:03:12 -!- ziga` [~user@BSN-176-185-155.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:37 The community agrees that ITERATE is, in fact, just LOOP with parentheses, and any advantages are purely accidental. 23:03:43 obviously common lisp should have just made named-LET standard 23:05:52 Good morning everyone! 23:06:07 beach: good morning 23:06:12 hello beach 23:06:14 pixpop [~pixpop@adsl-76-208-130-92.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:15 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:21 hello beach, we are just discussing how LOOP with keywords is the best thing to do 23:06:22 'morning beach 23:06:38 beach brightens up my day 23:06:50 :) 23:06:51 Quadrescence: Fascinating! 23:06:59 beach: yes quite! 23:07:01 -!- pixpop [~pixpop@adsl-76-208-130-92.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:07:08 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:12 Ryan_ [~Ryan@174-21-162-194.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:34 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:07:46 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 23:09:05 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.30.238] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:09:33 jonte [~jonte@217-210-1-229-no149.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:12 -!- cvandusen [~user@68-90-30-246.ded.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: later] 23:11:03 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:24 nconcing is a pretty good progressive verb 23:14:45 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:16:34 vokoda` [~user@host86-147-40-126.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:17:06 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:22 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-83-229.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:19:02 -!- vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:19:11 -!- vokoda` is now known as vokoda 23:19:31 -!- vokoda [~user@host86-147-40-126.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:19:31 vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has joined #lisp 23:20:58 nsswb [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:58 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:11 nsswb_ [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:18 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-158.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:21:21 -!- nsswb [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:21:32 -!- nsswb_ [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:39 nsswb [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:44 -!- nsswb [~nsswb@ip-80-113-5-247.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has left #lisp 23:23:26 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@187.57.19.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:25:27 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:26:30 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:26:45 peth [~anon@unaffiliated/peth] has joined #lisp 23:28:32 -!- peth [~anon@unaffiliated/peth] has quit [Client Quit] 23:29:18 peth [~anon@unaffiliated/peth] has joined #lisp 23:31:15 gonzojive [~red@171.66.87.137] has joined #lisp 23:32:32 -!- peth [~anon@unaffiliated/peth] has left #lisp 23:32:34 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:34:09 loopless? I'm off to CLIKI! 23:34:54 How have I missed this? 23:36:01 If I'm going to use something over LOOP, it's got to be pretty compelling. Something about requiring a package just to iterate doesn't sit right with me. 23:36:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:38:37 -!- Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-64-11.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 23:40:16 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:16 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:37 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 23:42:34 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:42:49 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 23:44:20 xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:41 Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:50:44 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 23:50:51 adu [~ajr@c-76-23-82-40.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:00 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-117.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:25 -!- jonte [~jonte@217-210-1-229-no149.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:52:23 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.90.240] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:58:00 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp