00:00:24 -!- plage [~user@116.118.1.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:00:38 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:03:22 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-38-201.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:06:56 Is it possible to skip some values in a 'multiple-value-bind'? I'm decoding a Universal Date and it returns a lot of values, but I'm only interested at 'day'. 00:07:15 nth-value 00:08:07 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.14.3] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:09:35 stassats: Nice. Thank you. 00:10:08 -!- CrazyEddy [~hispanida@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:10:26 or if you need multiple values but not all, you could do multiple-value-list and pull certain elements from the list 00:10:42 Phoodus: really? 00:10:47 Phoodus: Nice too. Thank you. 00:10:52 but in that case, multiple-value-bind + declare ignore is probably most sensible 00:11:29 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-85-217.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:11:43 i wish there was something like keyword arguments, but for multiple values 00:12:01 but then, i think returning more than 3 values is not such a good thing 00:12:28 stassats: build it :) 00:12:31 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-96-80.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:12:42 build what? 00:12:55 stassats: the keyword arguments for return values 00:13:03 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:11 madnificent: that's what i said, but how i should build it? 00:13:15 if lisp were a pure functional language, then if something returned multiple values but you only needed one of them, it could prune out sections of the function intended for that use 00:13:50 Phoodus: why would lisp need to be pure for that? 00:13:54 it can, if you inline it 00:14:00 stassats: how is not the problem, I think... you return more values. Then you write a macro on top of multiple-value-list. Where would you use it? 00:14:02 stassats: hmm, true 00:14:07 Ryan__ [~Ryan@12.107.119.130] has joined #lisp 00:14:28 Ralith: well, pure would make it a bit easier. Still doable non-pure 00:14:42 no point in specializing a function for a single use and *not* inlining it 00:14:54 *madnificent* 's sentences become less coherent when he should go to bed 00:15:02 madnificent: that's not analogous to keyword arguments 00:15:23 if something returns 2 values, you could in theory generate a call that doesn't bother returning anything, one that only generates the 1st, one that only generates the 2nd, and the full one you implemented 00:15:29 of course, that explodes out pretty quickly 00:15:37 and is most likely a counterproductive microoptimization 00:15:38 Ralith: ease of redefinition? ease of debugging? 00:16:08 stassats: how would it not? What were you thinking when you were talking about keyword arguments? It's to something like multiple-value-bind, right? 00:16:23 stassats: aren't keyword arguments standard consed arguments that are parsed at function entry time? 00:16:31 stassats: oh, good point. 00:16:48 madnificent: no, keywords arguments is when you can specify some of them in arbitrary order 00:17:08 stassats: and how would that not work with a multiple-value-list sent to a destructuring-bind ? 00:17:32 because it just wouldn't work 00:17:34 right, so you can do (values :a 1 :b 2), or (values :b 2 :a 1), and the macro would pull the list and interpret it 00:17:44 Phoodus: yup, that'd be the idea 00:18:02 probably not with destructuring-bind, though 00:18:33 but then, as i said, if you have more than 3 values, you're probably doing it wrong 00:18:35 Phoodus: where would the destructuring-bind fail? 00:18:53 oh wait, destructuring-bind does full lambda lists, n/m 00:19:21 stassats: that's yet another discussion... perhaps there are some rare cases where it'd be good 00:19:34 might as well just return a list 00:19:40 instead of values'ing it 00:20:01 Phoodus: no, you could still do a default value + some values you can bind to by keyword 00:20:13 Phoodus: (values 10 :foo "foo" :bar 100) 00:20:29 I mean, why not just return '(10 :foo "foo" :bar 100)? 00:20:53 Phoodus: because you might have many cases where you only need to use 10, but "foo" and 100 is extra information 00:21:17 hmm, yeah 00:21:27 well, you can return (values 10 (list :foo "foo" :bar 100)) 00:21:34 in that case, I'd probably do (values ) 00:21:40 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:21:48 stassats: that doesn't really make it better though... 00:22:05 it should be more efficient, depending on the register makeup 00:22:29 that could be the case 00:22:35 but the general idea is the same, regardless 00:22:41 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host188-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:23:29 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:12 Is there a way to nest reader macros? 00:24:18 I can't seem to figure out how to trigger another reader macro while already inside one 00:24:26 call read again? 00:24:44 Phoodus: Intersting.. 00:25:23 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:25:23 Is there a way to stuff two characters back into a stream that I'm reading from in order to trigger the next reader macro? 00:25:30 if it's a macro character, funcall its function? 00:25:36 seangrove: no 00:25:43 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-65-115.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:25:56 stassats: Yeah, that seemed pretty silly anyway 00:27:42 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has joined #lisp 00:28:09 CrazyEddy [~melittolo@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 00:28:25 seangrove: what is it that you are doing? 00:28:39 I'll paste, one moment 00:29:49 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:32:01 qbomb [~qbomb@12.153.197.15] has joined #lisp 00:33:14 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:24 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:34:14 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@187.10.45.61] has quit [Quit: "Rebooting computer"] 00:35:07 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CB8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:35:19 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:08 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-9-123.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:38:09 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-255-108.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:12 Sorry for the delay stassats, wanted to make sure this was at least semi-intelligible: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118105 00:38:27 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-85-217.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:38:34 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 00:39:09 -!- roconnor [~roconnor@76-10-163-203.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:39:29 roconnor [~roconnor@76-10-163-203.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:39:33 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:39:35 slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 00:39:57 seangrove: #\# #\{ shouldn't be a reader macro 00:40:20 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:45 That might be right, yeah 00:41:54 Since I don't need to trigger it by itself 00:41:59 Only inside of #"..."# 00:42:57 Ok, lemme try this again 00:44:24 and don't forget to handle escaping, or you want be able to put #{ into a string 00:45:09 -!- sm` is now known as MonsterMob 00:45:46 and using a state-machine may be better 00:45:51 ok, i'm off 00:46:23 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:48:42 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:29 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:50:34 -!- mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 00:51:37 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:54:40 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:26 -!- drdo`` [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:43 drdo`` [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 00:58:07 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:58:22 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:00 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has left #lisp 01:00:37 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:02:15 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:49 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host109-152-181-245.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:04:10 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:05:07 wait, common lisp is image based? 01:05:42 one of the answers on stack overflow to "which programming languages besides smalltalk are image based?" is "most implementations of CL" 01:06:31 unkanon: An image is a "snapshot" of a runtime environment. 01:07:10 When you start your CL implementation, you start from an image. Some implementations also allow you to "dump" an image to disk, which you can restart from later. 01:07:27 where do the similarities with ST end? 01:08:49 With respect to images, smalltalk has traditionally been much more "image-oriented" than CL. It's not unheard of to have libraries (?) distributed as images, for which the source code has been lost and such, in the Smalltalk world. Scares the crap out of me. 01:09:48 But it's true that there's some advantages to that approach, such as easy programmatic persistent modification of the environment, and probably others (note that I have zero smalltalk experience). 01:10:00 au9ustine [~user@112.4.83.35] has joined #lisp 01:10:39 slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 01:10:57 -!- au9ustine [~user@112.4.83.35] has quit [Client Quit] 01:11:16 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-80-197.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:11:17 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:11:31 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-9-123.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:13:04 unkanon: does that scare you for some reason? 01:13:05 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@78.173.127.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:12 au9ustine [~user@112.4.83.35] has joined #lisp 01:13:46 -!- peth [~anon@unaffiliated/peth] has quit [] 01:13:48 I want to define a new system similar to DEFINE-SETF-EXPANDER/GET-SETF-EXPANSION. This new system will let one declare LABELS bindings as well as LET* bindings. I see that the values of GET-SETF-EXPANSION separate the LET* variable names from the values instead of using one variable which contains a cadr-valued alist of bindings. 01:14:28 Hexstream: images for which the source code has been lost in smalltalk? how can that be? smalltalk is not compiled 01:14:35 it always interprets from source 01:14:41 madnificent: how do you mean? 01:15:01 unkanon: I don't know, I have no experience with Smalltalk. 01:15:54 unkanon: Is that right? Self maintains code representation I believe, but I thought most smalltalks takes source down to bytecode 01:15:54 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:17:14 seangrove: don't hold me to it, but I think it needs the source at all times 01:17:14 -!- drdo`` [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:34 drdo`` [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 01:17:34 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:17:35 I wonder if anyone knows the reason for this (2 values instead of 1). I'm wondering if I should have (values let*-vars let*-values labels-names labels-lambda-and-body), (values let*-vars-and-values labels-names-and-body) or (values let*-vars let*-values labels-names-and-body) 01:17:41 pocket_ [~masato@p3239-ipbf2310hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:19:05 Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.57.33] has joined #lisp 01:19:30 -!- mg4001 [~mg4001@cpe-76-93-28-217.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 01:20:35 unkanon: it sounded like it somehow made you afraid of common lisp, probably just my imagination 01:21:44 because it's not image based? 01:22:00 actually I don't have much expperience with smalltalk, I just think it's a really great idea 01:22:10 -!- au9ustine [~user@112.4.83.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:39 au9ustine [~user@61.155.18.17] has joined #lisp 01:22:48 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.10.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:22:51 never mind 01:22:52 -!- au9ustine [~user@61.155.18.17] has quit [Client Quit] 01:24:47 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 01:28:42 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:31:44 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 01:37:22 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:41:01 -!- psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-164-134.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 01:41:46 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-91-238.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:11 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-255-108.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:44:35 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:47:29 -!- Ryan__ [~Ryan@12.107.119.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:47:51 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.25.243] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:48:03 Ryan__ [~Ryan@12.107.119.130] has joined #lisp 01:49:25 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:51:07 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 01:58:18 _danb_ [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:59:36 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 02:03:55 unkanon: you cannot lose source in smalltalk, because not only does it always interpret it, but you have to type it in to the interpreter as it interprets it! 02:04:45 pjb: right that's what I thought 02:04:56 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:29 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-143-190.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10:31 -!- Ryan__ [~Ryan@12.107.119.130] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:11:43 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-251.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 02:13:19 mhi^ [~mhi@dslb-188-102-103-138.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:20:34 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:22:14 egor_tensin [~egor@217.197.5.81] has joined #lisp 02:22:33 -!- egor_tensin [~egor@217.197.5.81] has quit [Client Quit] 02:24:13 -!- Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-47-61.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 02:29:22 -!- bubbles [~bubbles@host81-149-182-41.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:31:20 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 02:34:55 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 02:35:52 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:52 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4C39.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:44:38 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-251.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:47:56 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 02:48:53 noca [~user@61.135.255.86] has joined #lisp 02:55:03 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:58:52 jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:57 -!- unkanon [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 03:03:17 jleija [~jleija@c-98-199-38-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:20 didi`` [~user@scorpion.tdkom.psi.br] has joined #lisp 03:16:35 -!- didi` [~user@scorpion.tdkom.psi.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:17:20 mhi^_ [~mhi@dslb-188-103-206-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:41 -!- mhi^ [~mhi@dslb-188-102-103-138.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:25:12 Hmm I am about to start a rewrite of a bigger web dev project of mine which has so far been implemented in Ruby in another language I don't know well yet. Candidates are Haskell and CL. I really wanted to give Haskell a try for something bigger, so we get to spend some time together - somebody in here told me that Haskell was quite an eye opener for them, I forgot who. I am having problems with whitespace management in Haskell. In Common Lisp I simply go tab/ C-M 03:25:12 -q after I update the upper parts of a function but in Haskell this can hardly be done automatically so when I need to realign several lines below in a case statement, it's pretty annoying :[ 03:25:42 Significant whitespace ftl in Haskell :[ 03:26:37 Maybe I should forget about Haskell for now and focus on Common Lisp 03:27:53 What kind of errors would I probably make in CL which are not detected at runtime though? I was wondering if a static language like Haskell might have an advantage there since I make terrible mistakes in Ruby all the time, where some method is misspelled and it doesn't get triggered until I refresh the stuff in the browser to perform the actual request. 03:29:43 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:34:10 I'm really not qualified to have an opinion here, but I'll toss my peanuts into the gallery anyway. 03:34:37 Cheers mate 03:34:54 It's been my experience that most of the TDD thing is about compensating for lack of a static compiler 03:35:10 TDD = ? 03:35:18 Test-Driven Development 03:35:30 Write unit tests first, then write your code 03:35:49 (I've never actually been able to force myself to do that) 03:36:04 I rarely do that, it's too time consuming for most the stuff I do 03:36:12 Yeah, me too 03:36:28 Like I said, I ain't qualified to be commenting in here 03:36:35 But, whatever 03:37:32 It's been my experience that I waste a lot more time sitting around waiting for stuff to compile than I do one out of the bazillion times trying to debug something because I got the type wrong 03:38:31 From what I've read about Haskell, it's nowhere near as painfull as C++ (where I live in my day-job, currently) 03:39:17 But, still, it seems like type declarations should be an optimization (I'm *obviously* even more clueless about Haskell than Lisp) 03:41:19 sea4ever_ [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 03:41:22 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:41:25 -!- sea4ever_ is now known as sea4ever 03:41:29 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Changing host] 03:41:29 sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has joined #lisp 03:43:14 From what I've read about Haskell, it's nowhere near as painfull as C++ (where I live in my day-job, currently) 03:43:21 Haskell is just totally foreign to me 03:43:51 I've been using C++ for years and it would be much easier for me to work in in this case but I definitely do not want to do webdev in such a low level language, haha 03:44:44 Yeah, web and C++ just do *not* fit 03:44:47 Every time I use [] on a vector or an array or a string it might result in a remotely exploitable security hole 03:45:30 Got to follow strict guidelines like using .at over operator[] and such perhaps, haha. 03:45:48 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:45:48 Sounds like you're *way* ahead of me...most of the guys I work with are still using naked pointers (aargh!) 03:46:12 Well, sometimes there's no way around it :P 03:46:31 Yeah, but usually.... 03:46:42 I haven't done any significant C++ dev since like Oct 2008 though 03:47:03 Rarely had to deal with lower level stuff since then 03:47:08 LOL...you can remember the month?! 03:47:19 Sure, I can look it up in git if I need to 03:47:19 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.205.28] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 03:47:54 Anyway. I don't think you can go wrong with either Haskell or CL (though CL makes *way* more sense to me) 03:48:03 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:48:11 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 03:48:18 Good luck to you, and I hope I made at least some sort of vague sense 03:48:27 ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 03:48:36 My last bigger C++ project was embedding Python into the official Diablo II client and providing an API to deal with packet events etc in scripts 03:48:42 Lots of x86 ASM, too 03:49:00 Fun! 03:49:09 I'm glad I didn't have to deal with low level stuff like that for 2 years now though, can give you quite a headachage 03:49:13 headache, too 03:49:23 I like my sandboxes :/ 03:49:25 Heh :D 03:49:33 I've been doing lots of Ruby since then 03:50:10 Ruby is *so* much nicer 03:50:17 Than what? 03:50:25 https://github.com/epicvrvs/craw_module/blob/master/craw/automap_loop.cpp 03:50:25 Than the low level stuff 03:50:58 There's a place for everything, but I've turned into a fan of actually getting stuff done 03:51:08 Well, when I need low level interaction I can't use Ruby 03:51:29 But it's easy to get to C when you need it 03:51:40 So are you epicvrvs? 03:51:42 Doing what I just posted in any language than C or C++ is brutal 03:51:44 Yeah 03:51:48 *other than 03:51:54 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:52:11 That's why having lots of different languages is a Good Thing 03:52:40 Wait, this code actually says May 2010, wtf 03:52:47 I totally don't remember that 03:53:08 Oh yeah I think it was 2009 mostly even, not 2008 :[ 03:53:09 No. Just requires doing non-portable stuff, pretty much like that C++ code does. 03:53:10 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:53:31 qfr: Mind if I shoot you an email? You rang some bells I've been thinking about 03:53:43 Email?! Why would you 03:53:45 we're on IRC 03:53:52 That is vastly superior 03:53:57 Too much noise already 03:54:03 Huh?! 03:54:10 There's always PM obviously 03:54:11 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl14-64-62.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:54:15 And the people who actually have a clue are starting to notice 03:54:29 Are you saying this is too off topic? :P 03:54:53 Probably wants you to ring his bells some more. 03:54:54 I'm saying *I'm* not qualified to be talking on here 03:55:42 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:55:42 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:55:42 -!- espadrine` is now known as espadrine 03:55:53 If I wanted that, I'd have switched to PM and just switched into dirty-talk mode 03:57:33 jimmy1980 [jimmy1980@123.130.162.228] has joined #lisp 03:59:09 -!- jimmy1980 [jimmy1980@123.130.162.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:01:20 psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-164-134.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:29 -!- psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-164-134.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 04:01:43 csmax_ [~max@p5DE8D794.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:13 -!- az [~az@p4FE4F7A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:04:33 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@123.130.162.228] has joined #lisp 04:05:19 -!- csmax [~max@p5DE8CB7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:07:24 -!- mhi^_ [~mhi@dslb-188-103-206-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:08:34 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@123.130.162.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:09:16 jimmy1980 [jimmy1980@123.130.162.228] has joined #lisp 04:12:12 -!- jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #lisp 04:12:20 az [~az@p5796CCB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:09 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:32 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:18:32 pknodle [~pknodle@pool-98-110-175-36.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:35 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:19:28 Fare [~Fare@nor75-10-82-225-68-180.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:56 happy holidays! 04:20:05 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:26:08 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:28:56 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:11 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:31:00 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:35:06 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:21 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:38:55 ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 04:39:31 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43:17 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:51:23 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:51:27 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-85.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:53:22 mister_m [~matthew@c-71-201-6-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:46 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-205.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:00:37 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:02:03 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 05:02:11 -!- az [~az@p5796CCB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:09:34 az [~az@p4FE4E91E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:35 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 05:13:58 -!- jimmy1980 [jimmy1980@123.130.162.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:16:29 -!- Fare [~Fare@nor75-10-82-225-68-180.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:04 -!- pknodle [~pknodle@pool-98-110-175-36.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: pknodle] 05:22:46 aSean [~aSean@134-208-39-197.ndhu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 05:23:31 araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has joined #lisp 05:23:32 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has quit [Changing host] 05:23:33 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 05:26:14 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:40:06 -!- sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:40:12 pknodle [~pknodle@pool-98-110-175-36.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:18 happy workdays! :-P 05:41:10 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 05:42:35 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:46:24 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 05:47:27 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:49:12 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:42 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:56:02 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:45 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 05:57:21 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:35 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:58:16 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:25 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 05:58:52 ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:02:50 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Client Quit] 06:07:40 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 06:08:14 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:08:55 -!- pknodle [~pknodle@pool-98-110-175-36.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: pknodle] 06:10:54 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:11:27 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 06:17:12 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-69-168.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:32 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-91-238.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:21:46 -!- jleija [~jleija@c-98-199-38-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 06:24:14 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.116.25.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:25:07 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:25:27 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@12.153.197.15] has quit [Quit: /wave] 06:25:48 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.43.239] has joined #lisp 06:26:47 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:22 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA39ACE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:33:24 -!- sellout [~greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 06:37:14 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:37:48 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 06:37:48 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:38:26 Hi everyone! 06:39:08 peth [~anon@unaffiliated/peth] has joined #lisp 06:40:03 -!- symbole` [~user@rrcs-184-74-223-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:40:13 >.> hi. 06:40:21 symbole` [~user@rrcs-184-74-223-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:42:23 Why am I getting this error message the first time I hit C-c C-k : http://paste.lisp.org/display/118109 But the second time I hit C-c C-k the program run? 06:42:47 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 06:42:47 Hi, sea4ever. 06:43:21 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.57.33] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:43:24 <_3b> it is a wrning, not an error 06:43:51 <_3b> so it did what you told it to (redefining a struct incompatibly) the first time 06:44:03 <_3b> and the second time, it redefines the struct to the same thing so no warning 06:44:12 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:44:33 <_3b> somewhere you have another definition of that struct that is loaded first, you should find that and resolve teh conflict somehow 06:44:56 <_3b> (rename one of them, make them match, fix package confusion, etc) 06:45:56 _3b, ok. Many thanks. 06:49:54 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:50:02 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.216.14] has joined #lisp 06:51:12 leifw` [~user@cpe-74-74-140-33.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:51:33 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 06:54:43 -!- leifw [~user@cpe-74-74-140-33.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:54:59 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:57:25 ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:58:08 -!- emef0 [~user@c-67-183-86-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:59:13 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Changing host] 06:59:13 sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has joined #lisp 06:59:29 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.216.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:02:20 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 07:05:11 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-lxtceyngjwzcstak] has joined #lisp 07:05:11 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-lxtceyngjwzcstak] has quit [Changing host] 07:05:11 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:07:11 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:07:33 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:09:41 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 07:10:09 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-5-60.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:27 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-69-168.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:14:17 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:16:49 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:17:16 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:41 Does anyone know(or have) good tutorial and reference of CLIM? 07:19:25 I use McCLIM to use CLIM. 07:19:28 check out mcclim's page 07:19:30 sanjoyd [~sanjoy@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 07:19:34 -!- drdo`` is now known as drdo 07:19:49 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 07:20:07 I already read McCLIM's document. 07:20:28 But It isn't enough (maybe) 07:21:17 I need some example code of McCLIM. 07:22:16 mcclim contains examples 07:22:52 there are also full-blown programs that use mcclim, like closure, gsharp, beirc 07:23:17 climacs.. 07:23:22 Hmm.. Thanks. 07:23:23 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:23:50 http://www.cliki.net/McCLIM see also linked from section 07:23:59 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:24:05 Thanks I'll read example code with mcclim. 07:24:47 Then how can I check where quicklisp install library? 07:25:32 pocket_: Ahmm, mcclim's document has plenty of examples 07:25:35 surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 07:25:37 It starts with a hello world 07:25:41 I checked .sbcl in my $HOME but there is no library directory, which installed by quicklisp. 07:25:44 Then a simple color picker 07:25:52 drdo: thanks. 07:26:36 ~/quicklisp 07:28:08 Thanks I can find src in ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software 07:31:17 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:31:24 makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 07:34:44 -!- makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has left #lisp 07:35:09 sellout [~greg@64.168.229.50] has joined #lisp 07:39:17 maus [~maus@222.253.85.96] has joined #lisp 07:41:07 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:41:39 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 07:43:38 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:56 kneferilis [~sp@nb1-210.static.cytanet.com.cy] has joined #lisp 07:46:54 emef0 [~user@c-67-183-86-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:30 zobbo [~ian@84.93.146.255] has joined #lisp 07:47:37 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-85.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:48:45 *_3b* seems to have broken sbcl loop again... (loop with (a b) = (car nil)) should not error, right? 07:49:20 good morning 07:50:19 _3b, the problem was the structure name was the same as that of a structure in a package I'm using. Thanks again for the help! 07:50:37 mvilleneuve, hello. 07:53:06 /quit 07:53:09 -!- pocket_ [~masato@p3239-ipbf2310hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:54:46 _3b: that's a good question, I'm not sure that loop..with semantics are defined very precisely in the language spec 07:55:58 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:56:11 <_3b> mvilleneuve: well, LOOP destructuring should work the same anywhere, WITH or otherwise, and as far as I can tell,it is supposed to set the vars to NIL if there aren't enough in the list being destructured 07:56:27 <_3b> *enough values in the list... 07:57:20 hello, why one cannot unread-char twice without a read-char in between? 07:57:21 <_3b> hmm, that makes me realize i should be able to destructure hash keys/values too... will have to try that at some point 07:58:18 _3b: from the clhs, "with-clause::= with var1 [type-spec] [= form1] {and var2 [type-spec] [= form2]}* 07:58:41 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:58:41 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 07:58:41 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 07:59:02 <_3b> mvilleneuve: from 6.1.1.7: "Destructuring allows binding of a set of variables to a corresponding set of values anywhere that a value can normally be bound to a single variable." 07:59:18 <_3b> (and destructuring hash values/keys does seem to work too, that could be useful :) 08:00:58 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-85.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:02:57 _3b: right 08:03:30 <_3b> (and more specifically: var1::= d-var-spec ) 08:03:34 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:04:43 <_3b> leo2007: probably so it doesn't need to buffer arbitrary amounts 08:05:14 <_3b> leo2007: and 1 was enough to implement the lisp reader 08:05:20 nalbyuites [~ashijit@115.118.91.59] has joined #lisp 08:06:03 -!- kae_ [~dsa@ext02.gsp.se] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 08:08:08 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.254.77] has joined #lisp 08:08:13 JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 08:09:28 kae [~dsa@ext02.gsp.se] has joined #lisp 08:10:40 _3b: thanks. I was surprised that elisp is also implemented that way. Do you know if peek-char has something to do with reader macros can have two chars? 08:14:11 -!- sellout [~greg@64.168.229.50] has quit [Quit: sellout] 08:19:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:21:41 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:21:46 snearch [~snearch@f053008239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:21:47 -!- maus [~maus@222.253.85.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:22:47 Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has joined #lisp 08:22:59 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-41-122.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:25:27 -!- nalbyuites [~ashijit@115.118.91.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:26:09 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-120-173.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:26:09 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:30:24 maus [~maus@222.253.85.96] has joined #lisp 08:33:21 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:55 ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:33:59 <_3b> heh, must be an old bug, shared by alisp, ccl and ecl... clisp and abcl work though 08:38:32 *JuanDaugherty* wonders if there is an implementation that the most sense out of some level of CL language specification or if that is even possible. 08:38:50 -!- leifw` [~user@cpe-74-74-140-33.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:39:11 *_3b* failed to parse that 08:39:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:39:39 <_3b> sbcl tends to be pretty strict about spec compliance outside of LOOP 08:40:24 leifw [~user@cpe-74-74-140-33.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:41:29 *_3b* tries to remember what i was doing before i tripped over that LOOP problem 08:41:52 it was missing a verb 08:43:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:45:08 -!- emef0 [~user@c-67-183-86-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:45:21 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-221-153.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:35 *that makes the most sense 08:45:35 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-221-153.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:45:45 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 08:46:10 _danb_` [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:47:08 -!- qfr [void@unaffiliated/yw] has quit [Quit: Theism is cancer] 08:47:51 -!- kae [~dsa@ext02.gsp.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:47:51 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:48:20 JuanDaugherty: assuming that sense-making is orderable, then there must be an implementation which makes the most sense. 08:48:31 qfr [void@cpc1-stap2-0-0-cust293.12-2.cable.virginmedia.com.siyobik.info] has joined #lisp 08:48:32 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:38 -!- sixpoint8 [sixpoint8@d-ip-129-15-78-81.cs.ou.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:41 -!- longshot [~longshot@174.36.149.237-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:48:44 sixpoint8 [sixpoint8@d-ip-129-15-78-81.cs.ou.edu] has joined #lisp 08:48:50 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:48:51 kae [~dsa@ext02.gsp.se] has joined #lisp 08:49:39 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:50:00 ebzzry [~ebzzry@203.213.202.186] has joined #lisp 08:50:18 longshot [~longshot@174.36.149.237-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has joined #lisp 08:50:37 Ralith, being well ordered as you indicate somewhat begs the question I'm alluding to about the coherence of the specs, or I suppose the machine they imply 08:52:02 which put more directly would be "are there any certified or provable CL implementations?" 08:52:03 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:52:25 rewrite the spec in terms of formal logic and find out! 08:53:34 and what to do with Gödel? 08:54:15 "i cannot prove nor disprove that this program is conforming" 08:55:26 this or last months CACM has an article on this 08:56:27 Gödel's result is somewhat besides to point of practical certification of correctness 08:56:39 *beside the point 08:57:13 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-awgkywecsicfuigi] has joined #lisp 08:57:13 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-awgkywecsicfuigi] has quit [Changing host] 08:57:13 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:58:39 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:00 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:01:00 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 09:01:00 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 09:02:00 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:07:36 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:07:43 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:11:08 -!- jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:16:45 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:20:33 Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:52 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:21:32 tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:37 vokoda [~vokoda@host109-152-181-245.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:25 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:25:23 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:27:22 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:28:08 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:08 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:28:08 -!- espadrine` is now known as espadrine 09:30:59 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-8-113.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:31:21 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-8-113.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:30 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:38:00 ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:40:07 xinming [~hyy@115.221.13.85] has joined #lisp 09:42:28 surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 09:43:23 -!- mister_m [~matthew@c-71-201-6-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:46:28 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:50:49 surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 09:54:11 What is the difference between the name CLIM and CLIM II? 09:55:01 One has a II 09:55:13 I have identified that much. 09:55:33 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 09:55:49 jsoft: :) 09:56:05 bsod1 [~osa1@78.173.127.135] has joined #lisp 09:56:15 the 'II' implies the project may be the second iteration as well 09:56:48 ...a major revision 09:56:58 Possibly. Or, maybe the project released II first, and then one without the II, just to put people off. 09:57:19 prolly means something from the previous century 09:58:09 Thank you! 09:58:23 maybe its part of and acronym 09:58:27 and/an 09:58:44 'Includes the Internet' 09:58:44 does anybody use actual CLIM anymore? 09:59:01 tali713` [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:09 -!- tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:59:39 -!- tali713` is now known as tali713 10:00:09 it depends on motif ? 10:00:13 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.14.3] has joined #lisp 10:00:54 and the motif libs i got with squeeze are not working...err not to build with cmucl at least 10:01:07 the headers were from lenny however 10:01:23 and there are no headers for squeez afaik.. 10:02:17 squeeze does not appear to be released 10:02:26 nope it is the testing version 10:03:30 I saw a fully functional squeeze a few weeks ago. The guy got a slap, but regardless, the squeeze waas fully functional 10:03:50 a slap 10:04:06 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@245-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 10:04:50 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1D1C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:24 -!- H4ns````` [~user@pD4B9E7FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:10:41 ah no, the Xm headers were there, the problem was something like on first build attempt that it would not find the libs however, and at second attempt i would get a XT not a package error 10:12:18 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 10:18:31 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:18:44 plage [~user@ssh2.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 10:19:06 Good evening everyone! 10:19:56 Hello plage! :) 10:20:55 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:21:04 maus: Hello. In the CLIM II specification, you will find an appendix that talks about the differences from CLIM I. 10:21:39 plage: Thank you so much! :) 10:22:30 maus: I can't give you the URL because this service provider doesn't seem to like dyndns.org. It also sometimes won't let me use IRC directly. :( 10:22:35 surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 10:23:56 plage: Thank you! I found it on the dyndns.org :) 10:24:17 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 10:27:03 -!- _danb_` is now known as _danb_ 10:29:31 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:32:59 -!- kae [~dsa@ext02.gsp.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:33:25 kae [~dsa@ext02.gsp.se] has joined #lisp 10:35:28 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:39 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.14.3] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:37:58 hello plage 10:39:10 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@245-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:39:54 hi 10:40:41 i 10:40:47 Can PAIP be had in ebook form? 10:41:22 please help: is there a way to create new types definitions to declare variables with? 10:41:43 <_3b> deftype? 10:42:13 Ralith: probably not 10:42:54 dto: damn. 10:43:07 I need to do some reading in it, and if I could get it on my Kindle I could do that on the bus 10:43:10 oh well 10:45:15 mega1 [~mega1@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 10:46:10 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:46:49 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 10:48:30 -!- JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Quit: Out] 10:48:35 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:48:41 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:49:01 Fare [~Fare@nor75-10-82-225-68-180.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:46 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: HNY!] 10:52:45 Wait, what do you mean by types of variables? 10:52:56 Lisp doesn't have types per se 10:53:04 Does it? 10:53:09 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:53:15 What makes you think so? 10:53:19 it does have 10:53:24 lot's of 10:53:31 If you pass a string to +, what happens? 10:53:43 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.115.38] has joined #lisp 10:53:55 Interesting..'not a number' 10:54:14 Ah so types would be used for validating input and so on? 10:54:35 Each datum has a type 10:54:49 sometimes known at compile-time, certainly known at run-time 10:55:24 Try (defun foo (x) (+ x "foo")) 10:55:35 If you C-c C-c that in Slime with SBCL you will get a type-mismatch warning at compile time 10:55:55 I just punched in (+ "rawr" 0) into stumpwm 10:56:01 <_3b> sea4ever: values have types in lisp, and you can also restrict variables to only hold certain types 10:56:14 <_3b> sea4ever: what specific effects that restriction has is implementation dependent 10:56:18 You can do that, _3b? How do you restrict a variabel? 10:56:22 variable*, eh. 10:56:28 sea4ever: That will only demonstrate run-time behaviour; my example exercised compile-time behaviour 10:57:06 <_3b> some implementations ignore it completely, some treat it as something to be verified at run time, some as a promise which can be used to optimize code without verifying it, some both of those depending on other settings 10:57:12 Ah, defstruct also makes a type. I used (type-of (make-rawr-struct)) and it returned RAWR. Useful. 10:57:21 <_3b> sea4ever: declare, declaim, proclaim 10:58:51 -!- Fare [~Fare@nor75-10-82-225-68-180.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:03:38 Bronsa [~bronsa@host76-176-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:03:57 Can't seem to figure out what Proclaim is for..ah well 11:05:16 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-185-245.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:05:33 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053008239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 11:06:46 <_3b> proclaim and declaim are just different ways of setting more-or-less global declarations 11:06:59 <_3b> while declare only affects a specific scope 11:08:51 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:09:04 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:54 g000001 [~mc@www14045u.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:20:26 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host76-176-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:20:33 -!- plage [~user@ssh2.labri.fr] has left #lisp 11:22:19 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1D1C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:22:27 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:49 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:26:04 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:26:15 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:31:46 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:21 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B433.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:55 -!- maus [~maus@222.253.85.96] has quit [Quit: Bye bye!] 11:38:26 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:38:58 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:40:10 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:59 phao [~phao@189.107.136.186] has joined #lisp 11:41:05 surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 11:41:33 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:42:56 -!- sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has quit [Quit: quit.] 11:43:11 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 11:44:39 flip215 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 11:47:59 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:51:40 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:56 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.115.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:58:11 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:15 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Changing host] 11:59:15 sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has joined #lisp 12:01:46 hey 12:03:00 I sometimes want to write (not (not value) to get a t/nil out of value. Is there a board in front of my head? :D 12:03:25 (when value t) or (and value t)? 12:04:48 thank you 12:04:56 I love this channel 12:05:27 note that any non-nil is a true value, so you don't need this that often 12:06:31 mhi^ [~mhi@dslb-188-103-206-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:52 Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 12:08:34 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 12:09:04 -!- kae [~dsa@ext02.gsp.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09:51 kae [~dsa@ext02.gsp.se] has joined #lisp 12:09:57 plage [~user@ssh2.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:12:15 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@78.173.127.135] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:35 -!- plage [~user@ssh2.labri.fr] has left #lisp 12:12:56 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-137-38.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:00 -!- katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:43 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 12:19:03 -!- benny [~benny@i577A211E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:37 homie / maus / JuanDaugherty: I'm alive now, glad to answer any questions you have about classic clim and clim II (: 12:21:34 homie: one, where did you get CLIM source code? I'm pretty sure there are no versions in public that build out of the box. 12:21:51 ...or have any backends 12:23:49 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:36 the secret of CLIM 12:24:46 mysteries! 12:25:29 -!- noca [~user@61.135.255.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:28:01 heloehlo [~bfouts@66.83.65.206.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:09 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 12:30:07 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@245-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 12:32:35 benny [~benny@i577A2D31.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:34:31 seriously 12:36:18 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1D1C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:12 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:43:30 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:43:43 francogrex [~user@109.130.67.221] has joined #lisp 12:45:28 ok I read bits and pieces of land of lisp on amazon and its site, I think I might get the book after all. 12:47:21 here is my take on the book : it seems more like Touretzky's gentle intro but more attractive because of the comic strips. It's likely to attract newbies... 12:47:59 francogrex: Hah, I just started reading the first chapter. It's the first time that I learn a Lisp dialect. 12:48:00 it's different from PAIP in that PAIP is "tough" (no matter what others say, it is tough).... especially the AI applications 12:48:36 what do you mean by tough? 12:48:49 does it bully you, demand your lunch money? (: 12:49:20 lol 12:49:23 :] 12:49:41 I mean, it's not really a cheap book. 12:49:43 it's big, you can use it in a fight 12:50:04 stassats: it lacks hardcover, unless there's a sturdier edition than the one in my uni library 12:50:07 not very useful in insult sword fighting 12:50:26 no hardcover? ain't that tough, after all 12:50:45 antifuchs: but quite useful for absorbing bullets 12:50:45 for artillery, I recommend TAoCP in hardcover... when the final volume gets out :P 12:51:31 i use Proust for artillery 12:52:03 "your prolog takes ages to solve Einstein's riddle" - "how appropriate, you optimize before profiling!" 12:52:22 -!- Kaek [~b@c-7ecbe253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:24 Krystof: yeah, never bring a gun to a book fight (: 12:53:10 Kaek [~b@c-7ecbe253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:53:18 PCL is more like: "ok I know what I want, I want to learn CL so give it to may without any bullshit"... 12:53:43 francogrex: PCL however requires, IMHO, prior programming knowledge 12:54:00 I thought of pcl more as a book that lets you learn about what makes lisp a cool language for solving problems, while tricking you into actually learning to program in it (: 12:54:23 about PAIP, it's for tough motherfuckers, not for pansies... 12:54:45 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.177.38] has joined #lisp 12:55:23 anyway mhi^ seems like a good book so I expect more people to join try CL after reading it 12:55:48 :) 12:55:58 by the way, PAIP is a hardcarver (at least my copy) 12:56:09 hardcover 12:57:03 I found PAIP to be pretty approachable. you can, after all, skip the parts that you're not interested in (and that come with a too high cognitive impact) 12:57:18 it has some very valuable lessons and some good programming style advice 12:57:42 antifuchs, do u use lisp for anything concrete or just for fun? 12:58:06 (it just isn't a great intro to programming) (: 12:58:28 Dranik: yeah, I'm working full time on parts of allegro cl and allegrograph (: 12:58:40 wow! 12:58:50 antifuchs: that's my problem, I cannot skip parts because chapters are related, like if I go to chapter XX there is something like; 'well you remember how we did these rules when we were writing ELISA now we continue as such bla bla bla 12:59:00 a bunch of people here are actually working with lisp professionally (: 12:59:20 antgreen, so what is it used for except AI ? 12:59:32 antgreen, sorry, that was for antifuchs 12:59:36 Dranik: lol forget about the AI thing 12:59:38 antifuchs: i was wondering, did you sign any contract that prohibits you from continuing developement on sbcl ? 12:59:47 qfr, Y? 12:59:49 not really (: 13:00:04 Dranik: That was just an early academic pipe dream 13:00:18 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:00:20 In reality the only stuff people are really working on is image recognitioin stuff and such 13:00:40 I'm a bit careful about copyright things right now though... 13:00:54 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp121-45-9-24.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:01:06 <_3b> antifuchs: in case anyone there cares, https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/695286 applies to alisp also 13:01:12 i know you wouldn't want to be accused of bringing acl secrets to sbcl... 13:01:15 I'm sure we'll work out something. it is, after all, in the best interests of any lisp company to improve the state of the lisp world (: 13:01:26 _3b: thanks! I'll file an appropriate bug 13:01:58 Btw is there something like dotimes, just without the variable? 13:02:04 *francogrex* checked and was wrong, his PAIP version is paperback 13:02:06 Would you use the loop macro for that? 13:02:13 *_3b* would 13:02:13 (loop repeat n do ...) 13:02:21 Alright, thanks 13:02:27 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:36 Dranik: http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/pro/2010-December/000198.html 13:02:50 *_3b* apparently uses LOOP more than avreage though, given how often i break it 13:03:02 antifuchs: true, the 3rd, iirc, chapter of PCL is pure evil 13:03:20 antifuchs: there's an implementation-hackers list at common-lisp and also the ansi-cl-test suite list; might be nice to have people from franz over there 13:03:28 ooh 13:03:32 I'll spread the word! 13:03:48 so many mailing lists 13:04:07 _3b: Third person to first person switch fail 13:04:13 I find it stupid that there's not one venue to go to report bugs that might easily affect more than just one implementation 13:04:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:04:30 http://landoflisp.com/ the comic strip is awesome ! 13:04:32 <_3b> qfr: nah, _3b and i aren't the same person :p 13:05:22 tcr: everyone reads c.l.l, fsvo "reads" 13:05:23 _3b: then you're |3b|, surely? 13:05:29 I don't! 13:05:37 Really cool would be a test-farm where you can run a test-case on all implementations, including commercial ones 13:05:52 that would be sweet 13:06:18 I keep thinking about a micro EC2 instance that has all implementations on it 13:07:03 It's the kind of thing much more useful than the IRC evaluation bot 13:07:16 but quite a bit related in terms of infrastructure 13:07:21 the hardest part would be to procure free licenses for ACL and LW 13:07:36 antifuchs: yeah, I've been thinking about that too! 13:08:29 antifuchs: particularly cool if it had various virtualized OSes within; not sure how feasible that would be. 13:08:35 cmm: I don't know, nowadays I have a "adapt or perish" attitude 13:09:37 Don't care that much about portability, just do something cool or useful, and others will adapt 13:09:40 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-137-38.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 13:10:20 Otherwise you end up like asdf.lisp :-) 13:10:58 luis: hmmm! (: 13:11:29 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:11:35 then it'd be super neat to test quicklisp dists there 13:11:36 luis: I think I should talk to kevin about this. I'd really like to make all sorts of implementations more approachable (: 13:11:43 exactly 13:12:47 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-137-38.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:07 I'll be playing with Hudson at work in the coming weeks, so maybe I'll learn something useful for such a project. 13:14:28 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:15:07 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:15:24 luis: hudson is awesome 13:16:11 -!- nuba_ [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:18:36 -!- tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:19:18 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.177.38] has left #lisp 13:19:26 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:30 (plan to spend less time on it than you would expect. it's this awesome) 13:23:25 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-137-38.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 13:24:20 bsod1 [~osa1@78.173.127.135] has joined #lisp 13:24:46 okflo [~user@91-115-85-253.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:25:05 (directory "c:/sbcl/**/*.*") lists files and directories (example http://paste.lisp.org/display/118111) but how can I only get the files and not the directories? 13:25:23 use with-directory-iterator (-: 13:26:35 "with-directory-iterator" is this an ACL specific thing ? 13:26:42 -!- okflo [~user@91-115-85-253.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 13:26:50 no, osicat 13:27:46 longshot_ [~longshot@180.184.11.79] has joined #lisp 13:28:08 well ok; i was think to use something like directory-p 13:28:25 yeah... cl-fad has a function that tests for this 13:28:54 not sure if it uses stat or not 13:29:09 but then, so does DIRECTORY, and that adds up in large dirs on nfs 13:29:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-85.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:30:31 funny that in ecl (directory "c:/sbcl/**/*.*") doesn' list subdirs but only the files in them 13:30:41 -!- longshot [~longshot@174.36.149.237-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:32:02 yeah, that's also why with-directory-iterator is a good idea (: 13:32:12 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 13:32:22 -!- longshot_ [~longshot@180.184.11.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:32:31 DIRECTORY, as specified, is useless for doing a lot of useful stuff portably across implementations 13:32:39 (never mind directories that contain broken symlinks) 13:34:37 cvandusen [~user@68-90-30-246.ded.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:42 longshot [~longshot@180.184.11.79] has joined #lisp 13:35:50 ok will try that osicat, seems good 13:38:41 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:57 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-85.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:40:31 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:42:28 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:16 unkanon_ [~unkanon@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:39 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.67.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:11 CyberDomovoy [~cd@AToulouse-257-1-14-8.w86-221.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:50:47 free_tinker [~Identd@host86-143-162-254.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:16 hi 13:52:25 not sure this is the right channel, i asked in #emacs too: if i have (setq plistA '(:foo "bar" :baz "baz")) and (setq plistB '(:foo "foo")), how can i "update" plistA with plistB? so that the result would be plistA == (:foo "foo" :baz "baz"). Any function that does it? or do i have to write one? 13:52:39 -!- flip215 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:17 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:53:29 you can append it, leftmost keys take precedence 13:53:59 CyberDomovoy: there's plist-put 13:54:16 tritchey [~tritchey@209.131.197.195] has joined #lisp 13:54:27 stassats> (setq plistA (append plistB plistA)) ? 13:54:37 yes 13:54:54 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:00 tcr> yes, but only if i know what is is plistB 13:55:11 stassats> i try it, thanks 13:56:58 CyberDomovoy: my solution will waste a little bit of space, i.e. duplicate keys will remain there, but that shouldn't be a problem if lists are not large 13:58:16 If they are large he probably shouldn't be using plists in the first place 13:59:09 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:59:31 stassats> yes, saw it, the result is plistA == (:foo "foo" :foo "bar" :baz "baz")... so i guess if i really want to replace things, i'll have to write my own 14:00:00 any function that would remove duplicates? 14:00:04 CyberDomovoy: but (plist-get :foo plistA) will return "foo" 14:00:08 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:00:22 so for all intents and purposes, it's the same 14:00:48 CyberDomovoy: If you don't want duplicates, don't insert them in the first place, use plist-put 14:01:09 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has joined #lisp 14:01:20 leave it as it is, and when you'll know for sure that duplicates is the problem, you can always modify it 14:01:25 stassats> yes, it will do the trick, but personnally i don't like it 14:01:47 -!- free_tinker [~Identd@host86-143-162-254.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC] 14:02:45 then you should adjust your likings 14:02:49 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@201.53.192.190] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:03:38 drdo> but i need to know what the keys are to do this, so that means i have to write a function that does what i want, there is no builtin function that does it, right? 14:04:18 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:45 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 14:04:55 CyberDomovoy: plist-put 14:05:13 CyberDomovoy: the feature of being able to append plists is intentional (at least in Common Lisp) 14:05:42 Unless you are talking about CL, i was under the impression that you were talking about elisp 14:07:18 drdo> you're right i'm talking about elisp, but the use of plist put is (plist-put plistA :foo "foo"), right? (plist-put plistA plistB) won't work, am i right? 14:07:32 yes 14:09:15 (loop for (k v) on plistB do (setq plistA (plist-put plistA k v))) 14:09:58 + by #'cddr? 14:10:11 -!- Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 14:10:48 yes, my mistake 14:11:56 Xach: responding to a much earlier question, it ought to be possible to write up ironclad to openssl or mcrypt or somesuch; I just haven't taken the time to do so 14:12:05 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:15 decaf [~mehmet@85.106.163.114] has joined #lisp 14:12:57 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 14:13:11 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:17:21 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 14:19:03 bakkdoor [~bakkdoor@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 14:19:19 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@209.131.197.195] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 14:20:33 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-185-245.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:21:29 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-209-228.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:25:58 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:08 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:26:23 what is the difference between 'cddr and #'cddr, is there any? 14:26:35 in CL, there is 14:26:50 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.13.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:54 stassats> ok, so in elisp, i don't care? 14:27:09 xinming [~hyy@115.221.13.85] has joined #lisp 14:27:12 CyberDomovoy: yes 14:28:53 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:16 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@78.173.127.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:39:06 billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.88] has joined #lisp 14:39:57 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:41:32 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:42:14 pknodle [~pknodle@pool-98-110-175-36.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:59 -!- pknodle [~pknodle@pool-98-110-175-36.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 14:44:12 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:31 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 14:45:50 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:07 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 14:46:56 slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 14:54:30 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:57:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.91.1] 14:58:08 metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has joined #lisp 14:59:07 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:10 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:59:52 I installed Allegro CL free version 15:00:14 what can I do with Common Lisp that I cannot do very well or quickly with other languages? 15:00:33 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:00:39 Macro'ing? 15:00:50 macros? what are those? 15:01:09 oh gosh they're like bits of code that you can run which generate more code..which gets run. 15:01:32 I see. 15:01:43 Sort of like a source-code generating printf. 15:02:19 how is allegro CL free edition limited? 15:02:33 horze [~kim@c-cb2472d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:02:34 Bronsa [~bronsa@host76-176-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:02:44 -!- horze [~kim@c-cb2472d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 15:03:07 kneferilis: memory 15:04:27 stassats only memory? 15:04:37 does allegro cl has database access? 15:04:54 valium97582 [~daniel@187.10.45.61] has joined #lisp 15:04:57 yes 15:05:44 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Quit: (* (! t) nil)] 15:06:42 stassats thanks 15:06:58 kneferilis: macros are more advanced than printf 15:07:17 kneferilis: they can rewrite their arguments into new code. 15:07:40 macros are real programs. 15:07:44 (or parts thereof) 15:07:55 kneferilis: though, this channels favors free (as in freedom) implementations used with Slime 15:09:52 isn't Slime an editor? 15:09:59 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.14.3] has joined #lisp 15:11:11 Slime is an IDE 15:12:25 SLIME is an IDE for GNU Emacs compatible editors :) 15:15:19 emacs is no more an editor than the JVM is. 15:15:24 emacs is a platform. 15:15:29 kneferilis: I have used ACL with CLSQL for database access. I don't /believe/ it has db access built in (w/ the exception of it's RDF database). 15:15:56 There are at least two editors running on emacs, the native one, and viper. 15:17:22 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 15:17:38 allegro has ODBC 15:18:40 among other DB interfaces 15:19:20 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host109-152-181-245.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:20:14 -!- espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:27 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:24:26 horze [~kim@c-cb2472d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:24:37 -!- horze [~kim@c-cb2472d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 15:24:42 it has odbc, pure lisp mysql, and oracle oci bindings. 15:25:49 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:26:08 -!- retrry [~quassel@84.55.45.179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:22 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-241-90.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:27:05 Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-51-82.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:27:05 -!- billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.88] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:27:41 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:27:52 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.121.176] has joined #lisp 15:28:21 billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.88] has joined #lisp 15:28:22 -!- billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.88] has quit [Client Quit] 15:29:18 billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.88] has joined #lisp 15:29:25 -!- Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:29:30 horze [~kim@c-cb2472d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:29:33 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:29:36 -!- horze [~kim@c-cb2472d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 15:30:49 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-80-197.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:31:04 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-19-9.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:38:37 -!- billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:40:58 molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-195-64.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:43:24 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #lisp 15:44:06 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 15:44:19 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:47:48 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:54 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:50:34 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:42 -!- CyberDomovoy [~cd@AToulouse-257-1-14-8.w86-221.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 15:52:09 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:49 murilasso [~murilasso@201.53.192.190] has joined #lisp 15:53:46 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:14 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:55:09 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:16 tmh [633c8794@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:55:24 Greetings lispers! 15:56:08 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:59:18 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.121.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:00:08 tmh: hello 16:03:19 bsod1 [~osa1@88.242.33.24] has joined #lisp 16:04:21 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:23 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:04:25 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:04:52 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:49 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:27 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75fc98.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:41 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:58 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:10:04 vokoda [~vokoda@host109-152-181-245.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:54 -!- peth [~anon@unaffiliated/peth] has quit [] 16:10:59 -!- decaf [~mehmet@85.106.163.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12:32 -!- molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-195-64.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: molbdnilo] 16:14:11 WonTu [~WonTu@p57B56CC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:20 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:25 -!- WonTu [~WonTu@p57B56CC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 16:14:37 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:14:41 -!- symbole` [~user@rrcs-184-74-223-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:57 symbole` [~user@rrcs-184-74-223-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:29 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:13 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.14.3] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:17:23 paul0 [~paulogeye@187.112.249.73] has joined #lisp 16:18:13 hi 16:18:40 paul0: hello 16:18:44 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.43.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:19:00 I'm having some problems to run a game from land of lisp 16:19:00 http://pastebin.com/Bh3y7fpY 16:19:06 couldn't find where is the error 16:19:21 "*** - LET: variable I has no value" 16:19:21 hello 16:19:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:19:47 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:19:55 does anyone here has a SExp reader implemented in a C-like language (pref. Java)? 16:20:18 Sorry to be distracted, but Chrome is telling me that Pastebin has a Chrome extension. Where's the Chrome extension for paste.lisp.org? :-P 16:20:21 ABCL is a whole CL implementation in Java 16:20:25 <_3b> paul0: line 58 is suspicious 16:20:29 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.187.173] has joined #lisp 16:20:37 its reader is written in Java iirc 16:20:52 tcr: i just want a reader nothing else 16:21:09 So take it out? Just need a bit of hacking to get rid of #. 16:21:28 nurv101: otherwise, rivest has C code to read sexps. 16:21:28 when I type sexp in google, it thinks I was searching for sex. :-/ 16:21:33 Alternatively, presumably, there are also scheme implementations in Java 16:21:58 And if it's just a minimal sexp reader you want, it's rather easy to write from scratch 16:22:12 <_3b> paul0: yeah, comparing to the code on line, it should be 'loop for i from 1 to *node-num*' not '... from i ...' 16:22:13 I think using ABCL's reader is probably the quickest way to get a sexp reader 16:22:16 in CL the reader hooks into the package system 16:22:36 paul0: you also have additional typos later on. 16:22:37 and other parts of the language which you might not be interested in 16:22:41 valium97582: give a context like lisp with it, then it won't 16:23:00 _3b: whoa, you're right 16:23:16 homie: yes, but when you are distracted, you forget it. 16:23:23 didn't notice, perhaps i've confused "i" with "1" when typing 16:23:53 pkhuong_: what is rivest? 16:24:10 nurv101: who. Ask google. 16:24:30 paul0: why don't you use the downloadable files on ? 16:24:44 I've jumped on the Google ebook bandwagon because I like have access to references on my tablet/phone. I'm searching for "Common Lisp" books and find "Advanced Lisp technology" by Taiichi Yuasa. Anyone familiar with this book? 16:25:06 pkhuong_: i think typing help me to learn 16:25:07 nurv101: If you can choose the data format yourself, json might be a more suitable cross-language format 16:25:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:26:00 i just whished the lisp datastructures book from okashi or okasaki was not only pseudo-code and algo's 16:26:26 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:26:40 some reference implementation would have been a real plus really 16:27:07 a test suite :-) 16:27:07 I hate "pseudo-code" with a passion 16:27:47 drdo: Java? 16:28:01 no psuedo-code is ok on it's own, but it's not of much help...on it's own when you wanted to say test out things with it, you have to be really lisp savvy to do that i fear... 16:28:02 stassats: Ok, sorry, bring the pseudo-code 16:28:11 Is there anything in Land of Lisp that would benefit someone that has been using lisp for years? 16:28:21 drdo: i meant Java being pseudo-code 16:28:32 homie: I didn't know okasaki has written a lisp data structure book. 16:28:34 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 16:28:41 tmh: comics? 16:28:56 stassats: Eh, everyone has their own pseudo-code 16:29:02 pkhuong_: there is such a book, have a look on amazon maybe... 16:29:12 I don't understand what the purpose of it is 16:29:34 I'm going to have to study your verbose as fuck pseudocode anyway, might as well use a proper language 16:29:45 homie: maybe you mean Okasaki's Purely functional data structure? That's not pseudo code, it's SML. 16:29:55 Norvig's book comes to mind 16:30:02 err, yes pkhuong_ i meant that 16:30:02 The pseudocode there is annoying 16:30:10 SML ? 16:30:15 pkhuong_: lazifyed SML 16:30:17 oh 16:30:26 is there a reference to SML or such ? 16:30:44 wait, standard ML ? 16:30:47 oww 16:31:14 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:31:14 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:14 -!- espadrine` is now known as espadrine 16:31:19 yes, yes is using ML, and i thought that's pseudo-code really... 16:31:20 lol 16:31:42 hahah 16:32:17 homie: That book also includes Haskell implementations in an appendix, doesn't it? 16:32:18 sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:28 I'd have trouble learning from a book that uses a typed language and then having to apply those concepts to a language without types 16:32:36 sellout: don't know i didn't get that far i think 16:33:12 lisp without types ? lol 16:33:41 a type jungle would be more desriptive i think... 16:33:43 ... show me a language truly without types... bash? BCPL? 16:33:53 ah, Assembler :D 16:34:02 technically, pure C isn't exactly typed 16:34:14 unkanon_: I didn't. The types really aren't fundamental to Okasaki's book on data structures, esepcially given that it's in SML, so the types can pretty much be erased without affecting the programs' meaning. 16:35:07 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:36:14 Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:27 pkhuong_: that's good then :) 16:36:43 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:04 yeah assembly has no types, I guess 16:37:50 freddie111 [~user@ppp-94-64-167-1.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:38:38 -!- sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:00 registers are typed on some architectures. 16:39:52 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:39:52 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:53 -!- espadrine` is now known as espadrine 16:40:27 sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:30 unkanon_: It's a book about data structures. It's a bit like saying you'd have trouble learning about recursion in a typed language and then applying that knowledge in an untyped one (: 16:41:13 pkhuong_: Really? Any common architectures? 16:41:20 jeyr [~jeyr@117.199.6.188] has joined #lisp 16:41:41 damn 16:41:49 there is too much information in this lisp code 16:41:49 redline6561: x86. 16:42:13 pkhuong_: Wow. I didn't realize. Thanks. :) 16:42:45 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1D1C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:43:18 redline6561: you have GPRs (and even then, you can argue that the different sizes aren't the same type), x87/mmx, xmm (SSE), and the random segment and control registers. 16:43:32 schmrkc: are you kidding me? types make data structures SO much easier 16:43:56 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:43:58 schmrkc: compare coding a binary tree in haskell vs C 16:44:11 -!- jeyr [~jeyr@117.199.6.188] has left #lisp 16:44:15 (yes C has types but it's not like Haskell, I don't know the technical name for what Haskell has) 16:44:23 unkanon_: why? for dispatch and destructuring? That's not static typing, but using dynamic type information for dispatch. 16:45:40 Tree a = Node (Tree a) (Tree a) | Leaf a 16:45:45 types just make it easier 16:45:50 and pattern matching really helps 16:45:51 and so on 16:46:12 I don't follow how types make it easier than st; *node } 16:46:16 uh 16:46:19 that got odd 16:46:25 struct { *node *node} 16:46:45 because you have to program all th functions to walk that tree in minute details 16:46:46 unkanon_: algebraic data type is the term you're looking for I think 16:46:55 whereas with types, the types help you so the function are trivial to write 16:46:57 unkanon_: How on earth is that about types? 16:47:01 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:47:03 tcr: yes! ADTs, thanks 16:47:03 along with pattern matching, as pkhuong_ said 16:47:05 unkanon_: that's not (static) types, though. 16:47:09 unkanon_: Just grab some library for tress. I dunno. 16:47:29 sorry folks, I meant algebraic data types (ADT) the whole time. that's what makes it easier imo 16:47:36 Genosh [~Genosh@93.Red-88-27-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:40 unkanon_: My point is that the book works just fine for lisp as well as haskell. 16:47:55 or C for that matter. 16:48:25 and it could well be 16:48:43 heloehlo_ [~bfouts@24.30.125.111] has joined #lisp 16:49:15 just grab some nice binary tree library for your C and there you go (: 16:50:33 schmrkc: That's an odd point; it's about implementing, not about reusing something existing. 16:50:50 If it's about reusing, I can easily imagine that that might actually be easier in Haskell 16:51:39 (because its tool chain might be more convenient) 16:51:48 -!- heloehlo [~bfouts@66.83.65.206.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:52:07 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:21 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:52:40 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:53:24 -!- heloehlo_ [~bfouts@24.30.125.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:53:47 heloehlo [~bfouts@66.83.65.206.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:55 tcr: I find see no problem implementing any off it in C. I was, of course, replying to how haskell provided nice ways to walk trees. 16:53:56 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:17 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:58:28 bubo [~bubo@178-191-209-64.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:58:38 -!- Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-51-82.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 16:59:44 -!- bubo [~bubo@178-191-209-64.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 17:00:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:01:06 I gotta admit though that I prefer to think in terms of pointers than the way haskell would do, with pattern matching and recursion 17:01:21 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:39 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:01:42 *cmm* smells a false dichotomy 17:01:57 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:13 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:42 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:42 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:03 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:03:09 I don't think so 17:03:19 -!- symbole` [~user@rrcs-184-74-223-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:27 well yeah you could mix recursion with pointers 17:03:34 symbole` [~user@rrcs-184-74-223-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:03:36 but I'm talking about what people usually do in each language 17:03:43 and you don't see much recursion in C 17:03:52 and not many pointers in haskell 17:04:00 and those are two understatements 17:04:13 rcjp [~rcjp@codephrenic.plus.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:15 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:04:17 *ehu* wonders where he ended up 17:04:34 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:04:56 ehu: in a maze of terrible misconceptions, all alike 17:05:08 :-) 17:05:38 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:54 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:07:15 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:07:15 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:15 -!- espadrine` is now known as espadrine 17:07:22 vokoda_ [~vokoda@host86-147-29-189.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:07 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:10 hi. 17:08:19 hi 17:08:20 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:08:31 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.187.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:08:42 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:09:05 I'm still here 17:09:29 you disagree with what I said? 17:09:32 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:36 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:43 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host109-152-181-245.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:55 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:10:12 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.208.133] has joined #lisp 17:10:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:10:30 I don't see where you guys are coming from tbh 17:10:38 *unkanon_* shrugs 17:10:46 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 17:11:05 *ehu* shrugs too 17:11:10 does it matter? 17:11:15 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.121.176] has joined #lisp 17:11:35 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:12:42 not for me, I just dislike when people have this air of superiority when they should have counter arguments or just be silent 17:12:52 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:13:59 I kind of hate it when people take offense (on IRC!) in me not giving them top priority when I have lots of other things to do 17:14:11 but hey, whatever it takes to float one's ego's boat 17:14:43 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:50 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:14:55 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:15:06 unkanon_ is now superior, because he has no ego... or wait 17:15:21 anyway, egos are off-topic 17:15:59 nobody's offended here. you might have other things to do but you had to take a shot at saying something to make yourself feel better. 17:16:24 I just think it's interesting how people are and what they need to do to convince themselves of things. 17:16:42 I'm done, I have work to do. 17:16:49 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:50 i'm convinced that this is off-topic 17:17:06 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:17:55 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-85.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:26 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:30 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:18:37 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.121.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:18:48 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-71.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:19:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:19:30 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:19:38 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.208.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:19:49 -!- espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:00 jleija [~jleija@c-98-199-38-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:09 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:20:29 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has 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[~rcjp@codephrenic.plus.com] has quit [Quit: rcjp] 17:25:03 symbole [~user@rrcs-184-74-223-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:55 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:16 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:27:22 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 17:27:26 kanru [~kanru@118-160-173-16.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:43 tjo 17:27:58 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.14.3] has joined #lisp 17:30:22 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.254.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:32:50 naragon [~nxarago@c-71-201-134-237.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:19 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.14.3] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:41:16 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:42:09 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:42:53 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 17:44:42 where i can find documentation about lisp commands? like complement 17:45:03 in CLHS 17:45:32 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:46:50 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.204] has quit [Quit: Reboot.] 17:47:10 skeptomai [~cb@c-71-197-146-90.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:01 tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.62.94] has joined #lisp 17:50:07 soupsy [~soup@120.16.95.108] has joined #lisp 17:50:13 not lithp? 17:50:40 not lithp? 17:50:41 not lithp? 17:50:42 not lithp? 17:50:42 not lithp? 17:50:42 not lithp? 17:50:42 not lithp? 17:50:42 not lithp? 17:50:45 ahahah 17:50:47 ahahah 17:50:47 ahahah 17:50:48 ahahah 17:50:48 ahahah 17:50:53 -!- katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:51:02 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 17:51:04 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-160-173-16.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:51:07 -!- skeptomai [~cb@c-71-197-146-90.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:51:17 flood mouthafucka do you speek it!!!!1! 17:51:26 :-) 17:51:57 soupsy: are you here to get asnwers or get banned? 17:52:47 im not really sure 17:53:02 what sort of questions do you answer? 17:53:07 skeptomai [~cb@c-71-197-146-90.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:42 I am not talking specifically about me, but the channel as a whole 17:54:14 me too 17:54:20 dont flood, this channel is grea as it is 17:54:26 ok? 17:54:33 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.204] has joined #lisp 17:55:23 sorry im just lonely my old chans are long gone and i just want a crowd 17:56:04 its hard walking into a room full of strangers you know? 17:56:23 soupsy: here is a hightec channel, as most freenode channels. you should go do efnet or quakenet, they have nice general chat channels 17:56:29 this one is not a permissive of disruption as some others 17:56:31 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 17:56:39 *as permissive 17:57:06 Dear lazy irc: what is the difference between *.fas and *.lisp extensions? (I am reading the CLISP quickstart pages). 17:57:11 ok roger 17:57:22 so what goes on here? 17:57:32 and soupsy, never flood a channel if wanna talk. just say hi or make a question, people ll answer soon enough 17:57:33 talk about common lisp 17:57:39 espadrine: one is a source code file, and the other one is a compiled file 17:57:46 and to a lesser extent other lisp dialects 17:57:56 soupsy: it is about common lisp programming language, very NERD stuff 17:58:07 any conspiracies about who pm's who? 17:58:15 *stassats* sighs 17:58:24 Is it a memory image? 17:58:34 espadrine: no 17:58:43 surely there is. i know you nerds, same as everyone else 17:58:59 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:59:05 soupsy: probably wrong channel for you. try some anime channel on rison, like #news or #animesupreme, there are lots of kids talking there 17:59:06 soupsy: either stop talking, or please leave 17:59:16 soupsy: If you're lonely, IRC is the wrong place for you. 17:59:26 -!- Krystof has set mode +b *!*soup@120.16.95.108 17:59:54 soupsy: try orkut, you can even show your pictures there :-) 18:00:11 other people: please stop talking to soupsy 18:00:42 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:43 *tcleval* by other people he must mean tcleval specificaly 18:00:51 stassats: what is the difference? 18:01:32 accel [~accel_@unaffiliated/accel] has joined #lisp 18:01:39 where are lisp parsing macros defined? 18:01:41 *tcleval* feals sad, he just wanted to help soupsy find a place to talk :-/ 18:02:22 tcleval: you can do that via private messages, and we will have something to conspire on 18:02:44 espadrine: .fas contains compiled code arranged to be loaded into memory image 18:02:58 but not the memory image itself 18:03:05 stassats: I am sorry, I am not used to PM. sometimes I just forget about it 18:04:09 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:21 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:04:42 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:05:09 n2linux [~n2linux@user-0ccslg2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 18:05:28 stassats: I see. 18:05:46 pavelludiq [57f63ae7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.231] has joined #lisp 18:05:57 What are the main differences between CLISP executables and SBCL's? 18:06:25 one is for CLISP, another is for SBCL? 18:06:37 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.121.176] has joined #lisp 18:06:59 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:59 can sbcl produce (binary) executables? 18:07:32 They can both generate binaries, afaik... right? 18:07:39 JuanDaugherty: sure. 18:07:41 they can, yes 18:07:54 i though sbcl only produced native code that ran in the image 18:08:00 *thought 18:08:14 JuanDaugherty: and you can save an executable image. 18:08:27 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:32 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:08:32 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 18:08:43 executable by sbcl, right? 18:08:49 JuanDaugherty: wrong. 18:08:58 ah, good to know 18:09:40 it includes sbcl 18:09:55 stassats: much like clisp executables. 18:09:59 fasl are implementation dependent though aren't they? 18:10:05 *fasls 18:10:07 JuanDaugherty: sure. 18:10:18 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.116.8.54] has joined #lisp 18:10:48 vokoda [~vokoda@host109-152-179-64.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:49 somehow binding the interpreter seems like a cheat on producing a native executable 18:12:18 good thing SBCL is not an interpreter 18:12:50 -!- skeptomai [~cb@c-71-197-146-90.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:12:52 yeah, necessary in most lisp implementation I suppose 18:12:59 *implementations 18:13:02 and some executables even refuse to work without an operating system 18:13:05 JuanDaugherty: much like most C programs depend on libc. 18:13:16 well ... 18:13:25 (rhetorical ellipsis) 18:13:53 -!- vokoda_ [~vokoda@host86-147-29-189.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:14:18 I guess it would be exactly like the libc comparison if the lisp had a means to shake out the image. 18:15:02 skeptomai [~cb@c-71-197-146-90.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:03 but having all of cl in there provides benefits not possible in C style systems. 18:15:13 Fade: funny. I would have gone with sharing the pages. 18:15:14 one certainly can produce C programs that can run without either libc or an OS 18:15:32 alfons [~alfons@pool-173-77-207-173.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:36 good point. 18:16:03 mheld [~mheld@c-76-118-37-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:27 SBCL can run without an OS too 18:16:34 JuanDaugherty: and one can produce CL programs that run without an OS. Frankly, I don't see where this is going. I believe it's pretty clear to you that executable and native code are orthogonal; an executable is then mostly about convenience. #! scripts are also executable. 18:17:00 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 18:17:01 (see sbcl-os) 18:17:16 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B3263E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:06 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082979A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:18:12 -!- sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:21 -!- d3z [~user@a64.davidb.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:29 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 18:18:37 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 18:19:39 don't agree on the matter of fact, but you're right it's pointless to discuss it here 18:21:36 lichtblau: herep 18:21:42 -!- accel [~accel_@unaffiliated/accel] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:22:01 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 18:23:14 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:24:13 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 18:24:17 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 18:24:33 Gnsh [~Genosh@93.Red-88-27-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:38 -!- Gnsh [~Genosh@93.Red-88-27-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:26:01 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:04 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.116.8.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:26:20 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:27:41 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@93.Red-88-27-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:28:44 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.254.209] has joined #lisp 18:28:50 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 18:31:22 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.116.8.54] has joined #lisp 18:31:38 hm, i've just messed up my code, somewhere 18:31:39 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-241-90.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:32:02 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:32:26 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:10 Thankfully you're using a VCS and can just go back to the previous revision. :) 18:33:48 naragon_ [~naragon@mobile-166-137-140-207.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:14 haha, i'm typing the land of lisp code, i've probably did something wrong when typing the code 18:34:58 Funny, I'm just starting the 3. chapter now. :) 18:36:36 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-255-145.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 18:38:59 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:39:11 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:42 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:39:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-9-150.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 18:40:03 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:42:27 -!- soupsy [~soup@120.16.95.108] has left #lisp 18:42:52 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@88.242.33.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:37 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.116.8.54] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:46:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-9-150.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:46:30 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 18:47:17 mhi^: learning lisp too, or just reviewing the book? 18:47:45 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Client Quit] 18:48:01 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 18:48:37 Former :) Thought it wouldn't hurt to learn some Lisp. It's not the first time I program functional, though. I did some Haskell and Erlang, but only in uni courses. :) 18:49:37 Erlang? What's that like? 18:49:45 It's like, totally offtopic. 18:50:09 oh, you're right Xach. mhi^, can you compare Lisp to Erlang? 18:50:21 Luke Gorrie is pretty good at both. 18:50:58 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:50:58 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:50:58 -!- espadrine` is now known as espadrine 18:52:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:52:26 -!- naragon_ [~naragon@mobile-166-137-140-207.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:52:57 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 18:56:34 jay_ [~jay@117.211.83.70] has joined #lisp 18:59:52 naragon_ [~naragon@mobile-166-137-143-110.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:30 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-19-9.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:00:35 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:54 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:00:55 mhi^: lisp is not as functional as haskell 19:01:08 which is a good thing imho 19:01:42 carlocci [~nes@93.37.192.85] has joined #lisp 19:01:47 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-1-184.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:02:47 unkanon_: it's not as functional which means it's more functional :D 19:03:49 a language can be functional and disfunctional at the same time 19:03:57 or none of those 19:04:50 tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:30 -!- jay_ [~jay@117.211.83.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:06:35 jay_ [~jay@117.211.83.70] has joined #lisp 19:06:59 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:08:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:10:15 sea4ever: comparing erlang to lisp. It's pretty much the same cept you have a builtin database and every ( runs in its own thread. 19:12:16 -!- qfr [void@cpc1-stap2-0-0-cust293.12-2.cable.virginmedia.com.siyobik.info] has quit [Changing host] 19:12:16 qfr [void@unaffiliated/yw] has joined #lisp 19:13:39 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:14:08 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:15:37 -!- naragon_ [~naragon@mobile-166-137-143-110.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:19:44 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.121.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:23:10 fe[nl]ix: I agree. 19:23:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:24:38 snearch [~snearch@f053008239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:25:15 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.91.1] 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[~ace4016@adsl-32-8-113.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:46 ramus [~ramus@108.68.169.95] has joined #lisp 19:36:12 -!- bakkdoor is now known as bakkdoor|afk 19:37:25 ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.112.172.242] has joined #lisp 19:39:17 aintme [~user@2.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:39:20 rfg [~rfg@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:40:29 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.114.117.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:41:25 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@201.53.192.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43:35 murilasso [~murilasso@201.53.192.190] has joined #lisp 19:45:04 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:52:09 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-185-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:08 -!- jay_ [~jay@117.211.83.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:54:16 I must sort out sb-posix on my box. 19:54:53 One has no C:, the other no CONFIG.SYS - both have test failures as a result 19:56:42 -!- tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-marxcqsetlkpafwq] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:00:54 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.121.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:01:28 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-38-117.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:01:30 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-27-224.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:07:17 -!- aintme [~user@2.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:15 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-8-113.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:58 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 20:09:06 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:09:45 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ae7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.231] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:13:02 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 20:13:36 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:13:38 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as 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[~ramus@108.68.169.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:51 -!- n2linux [~n2linux@user-0ccslg2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:11 ramus [~ramus@adsl-108-68-160-64.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:18 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-4.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:35:17 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-38-117.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:37:52 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:03 -!- mister_m [~matthew@c-71-201-6-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:39:11 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@201.53.192.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:11 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:44:06 -!- unkanon_ is now known as unkanon 20:47:52 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 20:48:15 -!- Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:59 -!- faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:51 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.192.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:52:47 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.63.180] has joined #lisp 20:54:54 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 20:56:09 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:24 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:57:17 Can anyone explain the rational for calling the least specific :after method first? 20:57:45 <_3b> opposite order of :before methods? 20:57:56 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@85.20.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:59:39 EOF-sensei [adcef6ac@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.206.246.172] has joined #lisp 20:59:43 <3 postfix notation 20:59:45 nufsed 20:59:55 -!- EOF-sensei [adcef6ac@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.206.246.172] has left #lisp 21:00:22 *_3b* wonders why the troll put the <3 operator at the beginning then 21:00:41 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:13 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-52-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:01:14 whoa 21:01:29 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-4.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:01:48 The irony of that is comical. 21:02:24 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053008239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:02:38 -!- naragon [~nxarago@c-71-201-134-237.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: naragon] 21:02:49 regarding Erlang & Lisp, there's Lisp Flavoured Erlang, LFE. 21:02:49 tmh: Think of ([{}]) to see why it's convenient to have opposite orders for :before and :after. 21:04:16 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:05:27 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:05:34 bubo [~bubo@178-191-209-64.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:06:18 Hexstream: I think I get your explanation, initially it didn't make sense. I think my conceptual problem is thinking of evaluating the lines of code sequentially top to bottom, rather than outer to inner. 21:06:37 -!- bubo [~bubo@178-191-209-64.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 21:09:13 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.116.8.54] has joined #lisp 21:09:13 Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has joined #lisp 21:11:04 are first and car same things? 21:11:23 yes. 21:11:29 effectively. 21:11:48 ehu: so why there are two functions? 21:11:56 what's the difference? 21:11:59 bsod1: first, second etc. covers some more types 21:12:10 while car/cdr are *only* for CONS cells 21:12:32 CAR and CDR are also historical heritage from the time a CONS cell had 4 parts :) 21:12:47 p_l|backup: are professional lisp developers using car/cdr or books are explaining them for just beginning? 21:13:14 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:13:14 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:14 -!- espadrine` is now known as espadrine 21:13:17 bsod1: car/cdr are very useful when you deal with CONS cells as something other than single-linked lists 21:13:31 personally, I don't think I've used first/second/... 21:13:38 Actually, FIRST and such only cover lists. 21:13:54 http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/acc_firstcm_s_inthcm_tenth.html 21:13:57 Hexstream: hmm? Well, I tend to avoid them 21:14:00 lists and cons cells are different things? 21:14:23 Lists are made of cons cells. 21:14:52 (list 1 2 3) is equivalent to (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil))), for instance. 21:15:22 http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/glo_l.html#list 21:15:25 bsod1: a proper list is made of cons cells where the CDR points to next element of the list, and are terminated by CONS cell containing last element of the list as CAR and NIL as CDR 21:16:19 <[df]> first/rest don't make much sense when your cons cells aren't part of a lisp 21:16:21 <[df]> er, list 21:16:30 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:46 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:16:47 ok, thanks 21:19:22 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.63.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:20:47 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:11 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.187.254] has joined #lisp 21:21:23 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440014.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:21:34 There are a few operators in Common Lisp that are operationally equivalent but where "good style" recommends to use a specific one in specific scenarios. For instance, the standard says: "NULL is intended to be used to test for the empty list whereas NOT is intended to be used to invert a boolean (or generalized boolean)." 21:22:01 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:07 -!- skeptomai [~cb@c-71-197-146-90.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:13 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:23:07 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:23:29 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:24:31 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:49 -!- zobbo [~ian@84.93.146.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:24:51 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.116.8.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:51 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:25:12 Hexstream oh heh 21:25:23 I was using NULL to check for nil 21:26:11 That seems like a correct use... Personally I use NOT everywhere and just ignore NULL. Fuck good style ;P 21:26:11 Oh, nevermind 21:27:00 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:13 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:28:30 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:48 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:30:43 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:03 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-52-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:31:18 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-79-143.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:32:38 -!- mega1 [~mega1@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:33:34 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:39 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:35:27 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:35:27 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:28 -!- espadrine` is now known as espadrine 21:37:20 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:39 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:37:56 murilasso [~murilasso@201.53.192.190] has joined #lisp 21:38:31 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-185-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:42:00 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-118-37-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 21:42:09 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:44:04 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-96-241.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:44:04 -!- espadrine` is now known as espadrine 21:45:44 Hexstream: and what about ENDP? 21:46:03 I never use it ;P 21:46:18 endpless? 21:46:49 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:47:06 T 21:47:31 I at least sometimes thought of maybe starting using it, unlike for NULL. 21:49:56 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AABF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:43 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:55:23 -!- mhi^ [~mhi@dslb-188-103-206-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:19 heiz [~heiz@ppp89-110-1-63.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 21:59:15 Hi! Tell me please how it is possible to create cyclic list using cons cells. 21:59:50 e.g., (setf (cdr x) x) 21:59:55 see topic 22:00:08 stassats: ... wonderful snarky answer :D 22:00:22 it wasn't snarky! 22:00:23 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 22:00:39 :D 22:00:59 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-68-5.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:01:04 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-79-143.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:01:26 -!- heiz [~heiz@ppp89-110-1-63.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 22:03:37 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:39 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:04:06 That looks suspiciously like a homework assignment ;P 22:04:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:10 ASFKLAKJZFXJKLZXFaslkAFASf 22:07:29 lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-185-246-2.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:32 MonsterMob: Wake up! 22:08:00 O_o 22:08:48 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:10 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 22:11:32 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.121.176] has joined #lisp 22:12:45 ... looks more like a cat walking on the keyboard 22:13:00 though I think it would have higher probability of hitting space 22:14:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:15:29 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 22:17:50 -!- paul0 [~paulogeye@187.112.249.73] has quit [Quit: paul0] 22:18:35 -!- lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-185-246-2.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:18:36 -!- espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 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by peer] 22:24:18 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:24:29 I am doing bad things with INITIALIZE-INSTANCE :BEFORE and being punished for it. 22:24:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 22:25:35 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:26:04 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:26:04 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:26:04 -!- espadrine` is now known as espadrine 22:27:42 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:27:42 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:43 -!- espadrine` is now known as espadrine 22:28:55 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:29:00 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:29:02 lol 22:29:16 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:30:41 paul0 [~paulogeye@187.112.249.73] has joined #lisp 22:30:44 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30:58 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-68-5.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:31:05 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:31:13 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-102-111.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:32:17 espadrine` [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:32:17 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:18 -!- espadrine` is now known as 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23:00:56 schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BD47B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:16 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:04:38 i am new in LISP. can anybody give me the learning material for LISP for the beginners like me? 23:04:51 Practical Common Lisp 23:05:04 binod: if you programmed before, Practical Common Lisp 23:05:10 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:05:15 if not, Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Programming. 23:05:28 If you can pay for it, Land of Lisp is a good book, IMHO 23:05:51 p_l|backup, thanks 23:06:16 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 23:07:06 Land of Lisp is a wonderful book. IT HAS COMICS! 23:07:25 and balancing weasels on a rake 23:07:35 oh, and that too 23:07:37 though it lacks Chunky Bacon 23:07:41 p_l|backup: it does? 23:07:49 i mean, it has? 23:07:54 well, chunky bacon is not good for your health 23:08:06 valium97582: but good for your spirit :> 23:08:12 chunky bacon has uncontrolled side-effects 23:08:45 feed a dog with a baguette. THAT has uncontrolled side-effects 23:09:12 lol 23:10:20 Where does Chunky Bacon come from? I've heard it before, but didn't get it... 23:10:32 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-102-111.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:10:40 w(p)gtr 23:10:51 why's poignant guide to ruby 23:11:26 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-44-220.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:11:39 funny book, lots of comics 23:12:15 also a somehow faster growing counterpart to Land of Lisp (it got started at similar time) 23:12:53 though by the time LoL got published, _why dropped out of Ruby community 23:12:54 but w(p)gtr never got released in dead tree form 23:13:18 no, _why was dead back in 2009 IIRC 23:13:23 It is said (on the wikipedia article) that wpgtr has been wiped off the internet.. 23:13:31 oh. dead. 23:13:32 but there are mirrors 23:13:40 I mean, he didn't die 23:13:51 he erased himself from the internet 23:13:59 odd enough, becuse I have it open in my browser 23:14:16 *espadrine* is silently shocked. 23:14:21 -!- unkanon is now known as unkanon_ 23:14:29 he tried to wipe off every trace of him off the internet 23:14:36 obviously he couldn't 23:14:46 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-44-220.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:50 but he did his best 23:14:59 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-44-220.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:15:01 Did he tell why? 23:15:04 emef0 [~user@c-67-183-86-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:12 it seems he was having some problems 23:15:12 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:15:19 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:15:28 no one knows exactly why _why is missing 23:15:44 and the ones who know are not willing to tell 23:15:50 to protect _why 23:16:37 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 23:16:59 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:18:47 francogrex [~user@109.130.67.221] has joined #lisp 23:19:52 well, very small group of people on the 'net actually knew his name, so... 23:20:03 *p_l|backup* envies him for having a wikipedia article listing only his alias 23:20:14 it was Jonathan 23:20:19 his first name 23:20:27 valium97582: can you offer proof? :D 23:20:33 "Why The Lucky Stiffs contributions to the Ruby community include Whys Poignant Guide to Ruby, a book which many state was the reason they got into Ruby, Shoes, an easy-to-use cross-platform GUI toolkit with innovative online distribution features, and Hpricot, a very slick HTML parser that is also a joy to use." 23:20:38 plage [~user@ssh1.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 23:20:38 nope 23:20:39 i'm not interested in escapades of some rubyists 23:20:43 I have no proof 23:20:46 please move it to #ruby, or something 23:20:50 the guy even attended a conference under alias only 23:20:56 -!- unkanon_ [~unkanon@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:20:56 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp121-45-9-24.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:27 Good morning everyone! 23:21:35 howdy plage 23:21:52 what's the temperature over there? 23:24:06 prxq: Currently 22, max 32 or so. 23:24:14 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:17 plage: I envy you 23:24:35 prxq: Everybody should! :) 23:24:54 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:58 vietnam? 23:25:07 ew, it's hot, i like my -10 better! 23:25:12 Fade: Yeah, Ho Chi Minh City. 23:25:19 nice 23:26:20 plage: and let me guess, 100% humidity? :D 23:28:10 and motorbikes in insane numbers 23:28:18 lucky you, here is like max 40 23:28:49 -!- sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Quit: ] 23:29:10 p_l|backup: Nah, only 94 at the moment. 23:29:28 p_l|backup: Just like in Bordeaux 23:29:28 -!- jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:28 -!- cibs [~cibs@Sylpheed.Math.NCTU.edu.tw] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:29 -!- herbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:30:45 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-44-220.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:31:18 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-90-155.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:32:23 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.14.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:51 prxq: There would not be enough room for the equivalent number of cars. 23:33:00 what's the best tempretaure for optimum lisp programming? 23:33:47 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:34:09 and is it better to program in a country side, in a crowded city or in the jungle? 23:34:17 francogrex: it depends. Ambient, or of the beer? 23:34:45 -!- rfg [~rfg@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 23:34:55 ambient; no alcohol while programming 23:35:08 just as an aside. in terms of full-of-themselves-ness, rubyists are not lacking much 23:35:30 at least, that's what I get from looking at some project pages. 23:35:43 they lack a decent programming language 23:35:47 a smug lisp weenie really is tame in comparision 23:36:01 I prefer with alcohol. without alcohol my code looks all messy 23:36:05 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:36:18 so they're trying to be smug about it instead, but lispers are smug rightfully 23:37:42 http://mislav.uniqpath.com/rails/will_paginate-love/ 23:37:56 frankly, no idea what is going on there 23:38:23 i have one, an off-topic 23:38:36 vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 23:40:04 is there any pagination (whatever that is) library in lisp, and does it cause the same psychotropic effects? 23:40:12 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.14.3] has joined #lisp 23:40:26 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439921.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:40:32 -!- zfx [1028@unaffiliated/zfx] has left #lisp 23:41:02 in lisp, you don't need pages 23:42:32 what about haskell smugs? 23:42:52 and now in all seriousness. Is there an equivalent of jekyll / liquid in lisp? 23:43:21 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:11 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:09 rfg [~rfg@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:46:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 23:47:20 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 23:48:16 phao [~phao@189.107.195.18] has joined #lisp 23:48:59 -!- heloehlo [~bfouts@66.83.65.206.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:49:08 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.67.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:27 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:49:27 -!- espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:49:39 -!- maden [~maden@modemcable238.203-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:49:41 espadrine [~espadrine@AMontsouris-157-1-99-205.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:50:53 prxq: I was really really taken with BRL back when the web didn't run on css. that was a beautiful html generator 23:52:15 -!- plage [~user@ssh1.labri.fr] has left #lisp 23:53:21 antifuchs: the scheme one? I see there is a lisp one too... thanks 23:53:47 yeah, the scheme one. but I dunno if that's still a good thing to use 23:53:48 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.121.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:53:59 both look abandoned 23:53:59 has been about 7 years since I last saw it (; 23:54:08 yeah 23:54:45 how about html-template? it's not exactly all-purpose, but the whole thing is pretty well-factored 23:55:23 Say, I have a question - is there a way to get Drakma to work on CLISP without patching Drakma? It's throwing an "unsupported" error in relation to its sockets that hasn't been patched yet in the QL distribution of drakma 23:55:32 unkanon [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 23:55:37 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.14.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:56:11 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:56:41 antifuchs: it's ediware! 23:57:06 prxq: having worked on 2 ruby on rails startups, I'm very much in favor of having a very very stupid templating language with clearly defined interfaces for data (-: 23:57:17 yes, it is! (: 23:57:31 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]