00:00:31 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8225B4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:00:35 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:07 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.174.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:04:58 gigamonkey: ok, there's still some work to be done to clean it up, but what's now up on github (on the branch) seems to be functionally equivalent to what i had before. 00:05:31 emacsAndCheese [~user@207.178.208.5] has joined #lisp 00:05:40 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:05:53 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-162-91.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 00:10:58 iwillig [~ivan@rrcs-24-103-24-162.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:46 -!- drdo` [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:44 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:14:50 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 00:15:36 white 00:16:51 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 00:17:12 -!- didi` is now known as didi 00:21:08 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.15.242] has joined #lisp 00:21:09 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-64-118.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:28 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:13 gigamonkey: I got writing basically for free by switching to binary-data. thanks! 00:24:23 still some work around the edges, but pretty close... 00:24:42 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:05 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 00:29:14 slyrus: yay! that is, after all, the whole point. 00:29:47 slyrus: and no, I don't think there's any built in array type. 00:29:51 Well, hang on. 00:30:30 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:34 -!- moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@ETSY.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:36 No, I don't think so. But it probably wouldn't be too hard to write one and I'd be happy to add it to common-datatypes.lisp. 00:32:16 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:20 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.196.130] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:37:55 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:15 -!- joergen [~joergen@e178068223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:39:44 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:40:34 joergen [~joergen@e178066081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:40:54 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:41:43 right. Ok. Also, a quick header-size with + method-combination eases the task of figuring out how much header needs to get written out 00:41:58 makes the code a bit cleaner 00:42:04 -!- sword [~user@c-76-115-88-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:42:40 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:44 -!- cinch- [~cinch@85-127-103-77.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:46:50 barandis [~thomas@c-68-34-233-189.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:01 -!- barandis [~thomas@c-68-34-233-189.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:47:10 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-158-4.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:47:46 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:48:03 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-25.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:49:10 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:51:12 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:52:20 Xach: Did you fix your trouble with getting a trace/bpt trap when loading cl-opengl on darwin? 00:54:28 rfg: yes, by loading it in the main thread, iirc. 00:54:40 I didn't play with it much. 00:55:16 How do you load it in the main thread? 00:56:18 Oh right, got it. 00:56:19 Don't start slime. 00:56:51 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-132-114.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:57:14 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.105.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:57:21 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.221.254.151] has joined #lisp 00:58:04 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-158-4.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:58:14 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.206] has joined #lisp 01:03:41 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A788.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:04:08 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-158-4.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:04:23 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.221.254.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:04:45 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:05:38 gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:48 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75478c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:56 Xach: Cheers. 01:07:42 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-25.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:37 jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:54 HET2 [~diman@host81-149-242-213.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 01:12:05 -!- HET2 [~diman@host81-149-242-213.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:12:18 HET2 [~diman@host81-149-242-213.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 01:13:51 *pinterface* wonders what his cl-user.net password is now that the authentication cookie has finally expired. :/ 01:14:10 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-33-154.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:15:43 -!- jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:16:48 hi arbscht 01:16:54 chupish [182e1748@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.46.23.72] has joined #lisp 01:17:09 arbscht: might try another evening of lisping 01:17:14 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 01:22:26 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-172-231.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 01:26:23 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:26:59 i'm going to bed. see you fellas... 01:27:04 -!- joergen [~joergen@e178066081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:27:56 -!- unalmsed [~metapolit@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:37 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:28:45 pnq [~nick@ACA33918.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:29:39 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:31:03 -!- iwillig [~ivan@rrcs-24-103-24-162.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:31:48 -!- HET2 [~diman@host81-149-242-213.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:33:27 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 01:34:01 -!- symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:35:34 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:35:55 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:06 dto: hey been digging around alot on iosketch gotta run now but have some questions i'd like to pull on your ear about if your available later 01:36:40 symbole [~user@rrcs-184-74-223-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:38:45 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:39:00 mon_key: sure 01:39:03 yes 01:40:04 -!- austinh_ is now known as austinh 01:47:56 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 01:52:19 -!- symbole [~user@rrcs-184-74-223-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:54:27 symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 01:54:58 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:59:49 -!- symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:04:05 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:35 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:07:36 -!- chupish [182e1748@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.46.23.72] has quit [] 02:10:35 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 02:11:02 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: good night] 02:11:43 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 02:12:31 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 02:16:04 s1ugg0 [~chris@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:34 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [] 02:21:05 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:22:45 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 02:22:46 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 02:23:00 iwillig [~ivan@pool-72-89-223-30.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:10 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-14-56.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 02:26:29 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-44-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:27:18 -!- hdurer`` [~hdurer@lo4.cfw-a-gci.london.yahoo.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 02:28:19 hdurer`` [~hdurer@lo4.cfw-a-gci.london.yahoo.com] has joined #lisp 02:34:58 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 02:37:16 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night all] 02:38:41 Xach: re loading in the main thread on OS X, you can also work in *inferior-lisp*, under slime. Last I checked there was no such workaround on 10.5+ for CCL, though. 02:39:27 ah, thanks 02:39:55 plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-234-246.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 02:43:48 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 02:44:48 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:01 symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 02:48:17 -!- jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #lisp 02:52:35 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:28 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:01:31 DONKEYS_GALORE [~njb@c-66-235-32-232.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:08 -!- s1ugg0 [~chris@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:48 sword [~sword@c-76-115-88-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:47 wtewtw [4lNUs5z8@dslb-092-076-111-053.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:29 -!- wtewtw [4lNUs5z8@dslb-092-076-111-053.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:09:16 -!- silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:13 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 03:18:33 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-loopvnjoixkwdwgo] has joined #lisp 03:23:35 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@208.69.183.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:24:24 shachaf [~shachaf@208.69.183.87] has joined #lisp 03:24:35 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-loopvnjoixkwdwgo] has left #lisp 03:24:50 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has left #lisp 03:25:41 -!- iwillig [~ivan@pool-72-89-223-30.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:33:00 i am using (labels ..) to create two closures which i return through (values ..) , since the second one might not be needed. when i do this though, sbcl gives me the "deleting unused function" warning.. is there a way around that? or to find out if my function was called with multiple-value-bind? 03:33:01 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:33:01 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 03:33:01 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:37:09 yan_: can you paste your code? 03:37:56 drdo: sure, http://paste.lisp.org/display/117715 ... i'll take comments on general macro hygene also 03:38:31 basically i am creating a function to return a generator (closure that returns a value based on state, then updates state), but i also want to return a second closure to be able to get information about it 03:40:10 Perhaps you want to say (values #',generator #',dependency)? 03:40:30 in order to handle relationships between two generators.. i.e. you create generator A that retusn values, let's say you can then create generator B that always returns the length of whatever A returned 03:41:40 rtoym_: ahh that was it 03:45:11 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 03:48:18 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 03:48:39 Back, oh, there you go :P 03:49:02 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:49:17 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.20] has joined #lisp 04:01:56 yan_: you can declare functions ignorable, and it's most definitely not a warning. 04:02:15 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-214-88-83.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:02:52 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-148-45-234.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:04:00 s1ugg0 [~chris@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:09 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:08:21 nostoi [~nostoi@194.Red-79-152-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:41 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:53 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:14:05 gigamonkey: in case you're curious, the binary-data stuff is now on the master branch of the iso-media github repo 04:14:59 any chance of getting you to abandon com.gigamonkey.macro-utilities in favor of alexandria? 04:17:37 nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has joined #lisp 04:17:37 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 04:17:37 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 04:21:05 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.139.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:25:00 ramus [~ramus@99.23.138.176] has joined #lisp 04:27:14 -!- az [~az@p5796C8DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:30:05 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 04:31:56 Cowhm [~sellonc@c-24-6-240-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:31 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Bye! Take care dear plain-text feedback loops! Enjoy your self-aware organic machinery! :p] 04:33:36 peddie [~peddie@rrcs-67-53-33-242.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:33:59 TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:43 az [~az@p5796C82A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:33 slyrus_: possibly. Send a patch. 04:37:54 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 04:43:00 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@194.Red-79-152-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 04:44:19 guidj0s [~gdjs@187.39.191.205] has joined #lisp 04:44:26 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:44:44 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:45:20 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:29 in this example, http://codepad.org/c2WT7ud4 , does the interpreter only know "next" and "term" are procedures and not operands after verifying that they're both effectively used as such, or is there some syntactical detail I am missing? 04:45:56 SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:42 -!- TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47:17 gigamonkey: you can pull from my binary-data github repo and check the alexandria branch 04:47:17 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-25.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:47:19 https://github.com/slyrus/monkeylib-binary-data/tree/alexandria 04:48:14 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-148-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:28 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-148-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49:02 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:49:45 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 04:53:20 TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:19 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:58:45 -!- peddie [~peddie@rrcs-67-53-33-242.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: peace!] 05:00:58 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 05:05:48 psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-164-134.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:50 -!- psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-164-134.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 05:10:47 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 05:13:52 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.138.176] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:14:07 -!- longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:15:01 -!- lusory [~bart@bb219-74-90-12.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:17:16 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-192-251.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:08 lusory [~bart@bb121-6-159-74.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 05:20:51 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:18 Intricate [~todd@virt84.vnet.wnec.edu] has joined #lisp 05:21:45 Hey, this is a really generic question, but how would i go about returning the same list without changing it? 05:22:01 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:23:56 Intricate: the exact same list, or a copy of it? 05:24:01 exact same one 05:24:10 or a copy, doesn't make a different 05:24:13 difference 05:24:25 I'm writing quicksort 05:24:47 so if the list is 0 or 1 length, just return what was passed in 05:24:52 (defun foo (list) list) 05:25:08 ok thanks :) 05:25:30 -!- guidj0s [~gdjs@187.39.191.205] has quit [Quit: I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!] 05:25:33 can anyone give me some guidance with concurrency in lisp, im trying to use eager-futures to parallelize some lisp code and its just making stuff slower 05:27:39 Intricate: you might be interested in the #'identity function 05:27:43 clhs identity 05:28:08 PuffTheMagic: You know that making your code parallel doesn't automatically make it faster, right? (And can actually make it slower.) 05:28:09 arbscht: Can you elaborate more? 05:28:41 Intricate: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_identi.htm#identity 05:29:19 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-192-251.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:29:19 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-150-3.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:04 Thanks, but that doesn't really fit my need... 05:30:27 austinh, i know there is that risk, but the current code i have is only using 1 of my cores 05:30:35 Intricate: what is your need? 05:30:41 i would think there has to be a way to use both efficiently 05:30:54 Just a quick implementation of quicksort 05:31:50 -!- ebzzry_ [~ebzzry@203.213.202.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:32:14 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-150-3.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:33:49 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.206] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:36:00 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.81] has joined #lisp 05:37:58 ramus [~ramus@99.23.128.127] has joined #lisp 05:39:40 plage [~user@113.161.72.9] has joined #lisp 05:41:21 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:42:33 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 05:42:38 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:44:19 -!- Intricate [~todd@virt84.vnet.wnec.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:44:28 PuffTheMagic: Have you verified that your Lisp implementation is setup for multithreading? 05:44:45 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 05:45:50 troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:16 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.20] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:46:45 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.20] has joined #lisp 05:46:55 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 05:47:09 yes 05:47:14 they are 05:47:19 tried with lw and ccl 05:57:55 Intricate [~todd@virt84.vnet.wnec.edu] has joined #lisp 05:58:40 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 06:01:09 ddalton [~ddalton@202-161-17-51.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:01:57 can i ask emacs lisp coding questions here? 06:02:20 ddalton: Better to ask in #emacs. This channel is for Common Lisp. 06:03:46 ah alright no worries 06:05:13 -!- troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06:32 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 06:07:21 kenjin [~kenjin@211.177.89.126] has joined #lisp 06:07:31 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:46 -!- kenjin is now known as Guest1781 06:08:46 Lochy [~lochy@59.96.161.9] has joined #lisp 06:09:39 -!- Guest1781 [~kenjin@211.177.89.126] has quit [Client Quit] 06:10:39 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:12:33 -!- TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14:43 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:14:43 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 06:14:43 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:17:56 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:21:32 -!- DONKEYS_GALORE [~njb@c-66-235-32-232.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:23:38 http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8081749/ 06:25:18 TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:56 -!- TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:36 Quadrescence, "movie not found" 06:39:43 woops 06:39:43 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA33918.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:41:08 -!- ddalton [~ddalton@202-161-17-51.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:41:30 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 06:45:07 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:47:55 jleija [~jleija@c-76-31-205-217.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:48 -!- jleija [~jleija@c-76-31-205-217.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:51:08 flip214: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8082089/ 06:53:10 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.96.161.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:54:24 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 06:55:03 Lochy [~lochy@59.96.161.7] has joined #lisp 06:57:31 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 06:57:31 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:57:31 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:01:12 haha lisp is the best 07:01:44 ? 07:01:51 referring to http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8082089/ 07:02:13 -!- zvrba_ is now known as zvrba 07:02:39 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 07:03:31 -!- Cowhm [~sellonc@c-24-6-240-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:10:11 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:07 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:12:26 longshot [~longshot@207.204.226.230] has joined #lisp 07:15:56 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 07:19:34 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-203-98.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:29 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-33-211.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:26:11 TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:46 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 07:28:00 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Client Quit] 07:28:32 wvdschel [~wim@sundiata.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 07:28:32 -!- wvdschel [~wim@sundiata.elis.UGent.be] has quit [Changing host] 07:28:32 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 07:29:48 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:30:17 dimas_ [~dimas@46.56.220.81] has joined #lisp 07:31:21 -!- dimas_ [~dimas@46.56.220.81] has quit [Client Quit] 07:40:14 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.96.161.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:42:09 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 07:43:55 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:44:06 What's that xtranormal link, not working here :P 07:44:43 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 07:45:43 Max_- [~satanama@216.252.92.19] has joined #lisp 07:45:47 -!- Caffeine [~satanama@216.252.92.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:45:58 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:49:23 drdo: the second one? 07:49:40 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:50:15 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:51:55 -!- plage [~user@113.161.72.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:52:37 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:54:43 lharc2 [~user@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 07:55:12 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:13 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:57:24 good morning 07:58:18 Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:59:15 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:03:32 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:06:44 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:08:36 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 08:09:10 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-cqaikxjzwghhyuvu] has joined #lisp 08:10:19 Quadrescence: isn't that from c2.com ? 08:10:47 -!- s1ugg0 [~chris@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:36 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:12:31 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:12:45 -!- Intricate [~todd@virt84.vnet.wnec.edu] has quit [Quit: See ya!] 08:13:16 Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:13:34 drdo: what is c2? 08:13:44 oh yea 08:14:33 pretty sure that video was verbatim from http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?SmugLispWeenie 08:14:37 :) 08:15:33 well, a part of it 08:16:16 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16:19 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-93.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 08:17:05 entropi [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:09 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-93.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 08:17:16 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-93.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 08:17:26 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:18:10 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:27 -!- longshot [~longshot@207.204.226.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:18:55 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:19:46 longshot [~longshot@207.204.226.230] has joined #lisp 08:19:57 -!- mitre [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:07 -!- entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:21:09 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:21:37 s1ugg0 [~chris@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:15 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:15 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 08:23:15 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 08:23:20 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:24:13 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:24:30 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:24:36 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 08:28:42 HET2 [~diman@host81-149-242-213.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 08:31:32 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has joined #lisp 08:33:27 -!- somnium` [~user@184.42.0.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:30 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:33:39 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ugbsprjtzauzldxx] has joined #lisp 08:37:04 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-162-91.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:40:37 Kiore [~ircap@D57D445A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 08:44:04 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ugbsprjtzauzldxx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:28 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gevdhlpizchsctiv] has joined #lisp 08:45:30 *stassats* analyzed his code and found that it uses only 35% of symbols from CL 08:46:29 ... some new benchmark of craziness? 08:46:51 there was a question on /r/lisp 08:47:16 otoh, I'd b every interested in some good static analysis tools for CL sourcecode, so I could easily check usage per package 08:47:35 so i wrote this http://gist.github.com/741780 08:49:01 About that 08:49:48 What are some techniques to improve start-up time? 08:49:57 what implementation? 08:50:11 I don't care, SBCL for example 08:50:26 drdo: a) don't stop 08:50:28 Specifically if i'm running a lot of processes each with it's own implementation 08:50:29 not all implementations have long starting times to begin with 08:50:38 Guthur [c0c1f510@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.16] has joined #lisp 08:50:41 for example what's usually slow on sbcl is fasl loading not starting of the runtime 08:51:03 Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has joined #lisp 08:51:10 the usual answer, however, is dump a core (which can then easily be read via mmap) 08:51:39 Well yes, for optimal start-up you'd dump the image 08:52:14 The thing is, they are quite big 08:52:28 And if i want to run a lot of processes, is there some way to share it? 08:52:37 And yes i realise they can be modified at runtime 08:52:53 I think there's sharing involved if it's the same core file 08:52:54 yes, dump only one image 08:52:59 -!- Koven is now known as Kovensky 08:53:19 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-62-24.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:53:30 I don't know the exact details though (for example if it's some kind of copy-on-write or copy-on-gc scheme involved) 08:54:01 Well, yes, i was thinking of something along the lines of copy on write 08:54:16 Truth be told, most applications don't actually modify much of the running image 08:54:26 Sometimes it's the best thing to actually describe what you're trying to do even when it means you have to sneak out a cool hack you're working on 08:54:29 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-6-77.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:54:34 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:55:13 tcr: Not trying to sneak any hack at all, i'm just looking at building a lot of applications in CL 08:55:25 And i'm worrying about memory usage if there's no sharing, and start-up times 08:56:04 some-minion: please tell drdo about buildapp 08:56:42 It's specially a problem for programs that run for a couple of milliseconds 08:56:52 It's not acceptable to wait a second for such things 08:57:10 uh then sbcl might not be a good option 08:57:11 that's why i suggest not stopping 08:57:24 and perhaps CL in general 08:57:36 stassats: I thought about running everything from one image 08:57:38 leave it running, connect to it from something simple via network 08:57:49 But i really don't want to have something be able to crash everything 08:58:00 i they only run a couple of millisecs, what they do is not much; why use CL? 08:58:17 because CL is awesome? 08:58:23 stassats has it right 08:58:52 (i myself use scheme for such escapades) 08:59:18 stassats: hey i might try out the thing you posted on my reddit question 08:59:37 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:59:46 If it has a script-nature, involves files, run from the command line, needs small footprint, CL does not really fit all that well from my experience 09:00:18 By the way, i'm writing a bittorrent client library, most of it is done, just need to sort out the higher level stuff 09:00:36 Cool, fe[nl]ix created iolib initially to write such a thing, iirc 09:00:59 It can already talk to peers and trackers, everything works 09:01:12 just need the client part of coordinating such things to actually download files 09:01:52 stassats: 25% :( 09:02:50 tcr: About those command lines tools, i might actually just go ahead and implement a shell and have such utils on it 09:03:11 stassats: get money get paid 09:03:52 dto: though, this percentage only tells what you used, not what you are able to use 09:04:11 stassats: for example delete-if and friends, 09:04:17 *-if 09:04:22 i'd know how to use any of them 09:04:44 and all least-positive-things, most-negative, etc. 09:04:54 it would be interesting to match up symbols to hyperspec entries so that "families" are counted with proper weight 09:05:21 writing such a tweak to your analyzer might be an interesting exercise in teaching myself more symbols 09:05:52 i.e. does info-lookup return the same pages of the ansicl info file 09:05:56 for two or more symbols 09:06:31 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:06:40 i can feed an elisp program the working set output by your program 09:07:34 and some symbols name several things, like function and classes 09:07:43 now, that's hard to distinguish 09:09:19 perhaps it'd be more interesting to count fbound symbols, because constants and variables doesn't mean much 09:10:50 that way i get 39% (was 35) 09:11:54 stassats: hmm. 09:12:03 stassats: can you paste the change? 09:12:30 i'd actually love for us to create a web button or something saying "i use N% of common lisp" :) 09:12:56 that is actually one of the exciting things about CL. i'm not nearly done having fun with it 09:13:48 i just did (count-if #'fboundp (analyze-systems '(a b c))) and then (loop for symbol being each symbol in 'cl count (fboundp symbol)) => 752 09:14:03 oh i see. so divide by 7.52 09:15:26 29% :) 09:15:27 and another problem is to distinguish authorship, for example i have my code in projects written by many people, so i can't count it 09:15:35 ah. 09:15:55 still even the relatively simple metric is interesting 09:16:44 maybe a quiz. "Can you name a symbol which is responsible for removing item from a sequence?" 09:16:49 well what about macros 09:16:54 is fboundp enough? 09:16:58 macros are fbound 09:17:02 d2dchat [~lance@c-68-42-74-28.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:03 oh ok. 09:17:20 -!- TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:21 what about special forms like if 09:17:22 IF 09:17:32 Should totally make a club for people who know the CLHS by heart :P 09:17:34 is SBCL the most used CL implementation? 09:17:49 I see it everywhere 09:17:57 compared to everything else haha 09:17:58 d2dchat: Xach did a survey somewhere 09:18:05 d2dchat: my spying satellites aren't working at the moment :) 09:18:20 d2dchat: look into planet.lisp.org 09:18:25 d2dchat: he posted on there about it 09:18:33 http://xach.livejournal.com/271794.html 09:19:17 ha I think that stats are clear then :) 09:19:31 SBCL for the win :) 09:19:33 :) 09:20:00 dto, do you do any web programming? 09:20:29 dto, also, what is your opinion of clbuild ? 09:20:35 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20:36 or anyone's for that matter? ^ :) 09:20:55 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 09:20:58 quicklisp is the new hotness 09:21:03 d2dchat: nope. 09:21:13 -!- Kiore [~ircap@D57D445A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has left #lisp 09:21:13 d2dchat: i don't know much about clbuild. 09:21:17 although i still use a system similar to clbuild, because i like being on the edge 09:21:54 stassats, lookin up quicklisp 09:22:06 when i've programmed for money it's been very small things, and usually as part of a non programming job 09:22:20 ran into something with clbuild, I dunno if it impacts me 09:22:22 ls: cannot access /home/lance/src/clbuild/systems/*.asd: No such file or directory 09:22:37 is that an issue? 09:22:49 It's amazing how seamlessly Quicklisp fits into my CL development, major kudos to Xach on that one. 09:24:27 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-93.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:25:30 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gevdhlpizchsctiv] has left #lisp 09:25:40 Is there a equal for arrays that compares element by element? 09:25:55 equalp, kind of 09:26:12 though beware of case insensitivity 09:26:21 if your array is a vector, then you can also use (every #'= v1 v2), or whatever test you want 09:26:25 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pywynkpwwoefqydv] has joined #lisp 09:26:42 has subtle points involved in case the vectors are not equal length 09:26:47 I didn't even know equalp existed :P 09:27:36 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-pbraksnljpgkutwl] has joined #lisp 09:28:54 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-93.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 09:28:59 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:29:14 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:29:37 (defun array-equal (array1 array2 &key (test #'eql)) (when (equal (array-dimensions array1) (array-dimensions array2)) (loop for i below (array-total-size array1) always (funcall test (row-major-aref array1 i) (row-major-aref array2 i))))) 09:30:49 Well, i know how to do it, thank you, i was just avoiding doing it if it was already done :) 09:32:08 is there any lisp code someone needs people to work on 09:32:51 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:33:09 I wouldn't mind if you implemented a UPnP library :D 09:33:18 there is some code on which i need to convince myself to work 09:33:26 oh no networking or threading for me 09:33:38 i like more of the fun algorithmic stuff :) :( 09:34:08 Quadrescence: Everyone does, by fiddling around with bits and reading protocol descriptions is necessary :( 09:34:19 by or but? 09:34:29 *but 09:34:55 yeah :S 09:35:34 Quadrescence: write me a search facility with indexing (using suffix arrays, for example) 09:35:58 or better with some fuzzy matching 09:36:10 come on that has to exist in slime or something already 09:36:21 It's specially nice when there have been 10 extensions to the protocol that aren't really standardized and overlap with the original protocol :( 09:36:25 it does brute force, Quadrescence 09:36:29 yikes 09:37:03 slime doesn't have such large datasets 09:37:36 yeah but lisp is slow and interpreted 09:37:43 so we need optimalization 09:38:04 yeah, and i'm a ballet dancer 09:38:09 :) 09:39:15 stassats: So given a string S and dictionary D, you want a function search(S,D) that returns a list of fuzzy matches more-or-less efficiently 09:40:58 How do you guys write the export list on a defpackage? 09:41:31 And by that i mean, it's boring to write manually 09:41:51 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:43:28 is there a way to get the SBCL REPL to have up and down arrows for history? 09:43:41 drdo: C-c x in slime 09:44:00 d2dchat: by using Slime, yes 09:44:02 d2dchat: Use slime 09:44:07 got it thx 09:44:22 drdo: see also: M-x slime-export-class 09:44:44 stassats: oh, that's nice 09:45:01 I was actually writing that by hand at the moment 09:45:47 erg how do you exit the sbcl command line? 09:46:08 C-d 09:46:08 churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:52 stassats, ah wow, so simple :) thx 09:48:04 d2dchat: non-Slime SBCL history: http://common-lisp.net/project/linedit/ 09:48:55 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:39 d2dchat: I have this function in bash: function sbcr () { rlwrap -q "\"" sbcl ; } 09:49:50 rlwrap is the best program ever 09:50:09 make any terrible repl into a great one 09:50:20 a function? why not just an alias? 09:50:27 I don't know 09:50:59 churib_ [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:09 Anyone else get annoyed at bash because it uses C-p and C-n for history instead of M-p and M-n? 09:51:37 Quadrescence, haha nice! 09:51:42 i am not, because i use zsh 09:52:06 Quadrescence: that's great, I didn't know about rlwrap 09:52:25 never write your programs with readline or linedit again :) 09:52:31 when I tried to add ql to sbcl startup it bugged out on me :( 09:52:47 and the ql functions aren't available in slime 09:52:51 d2dchat: if you're going to do any serious common lisp coding, learning emacs+slime will be worth it 09:52:55 I even added the slime helper 09:53:12 ya, I installed slime.. <3 it so far 09:53:13 hmm, then again, rlwrap doesn't provide tab completion and linedit does 09:53:36 koning_robot, was already an avid emacs user.. but this is my first time with slime 09:53:47 drdo: zsh can even have the same behaviour as M-p and M-n 09:53:51 d2dchat: There's a nice video about using slime 09:54:09 drdo, need help with quicklisp first hehe 09:54:10 i.e. matching the entered input (the default M-p and M-n only match the command name) 09:54:23 aerique: Right, it's just a simple shell for a program 09:54:26 -!- jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:42 aerique: But it works for everything :) 09:54:55 the best shell is emacs :) 09:55:05 https://gist.github.com/3ca78d0fe3183a513c50 09:55:26 d2dchat: don't use ~ 09:55:45 Quadrescence: yes, thanks for bringing it to my attention 09:55:53 drdo, ~ ? 09:56:16 d2dchat: wait a second 09:57:15 hm, quicklisp's faq doesn't have that question anymore 09:57:32 d2dchat: in your path 09:57:43 Lochy [~lochy@59.96.162.51] has joined #lisp 09:57:44 anyway, ~ doesn't work in old SBCL 09:58:12 horze [~kim@c-740972d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:58:26 should never use it anyway 09:58:32 stassats, do I need to upgrade my sbcl? 09:58:38 drdo: that's not the issue 09:58:45 where am I using ~ ? 09:58:50 you have user-homedir-pathname 09:58:52 d2dchat: that's an asdf bug 09:59:14 ah I see.. 09:59:34 Frakk [~Frakk@host28-49-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:59:37 the solution is to remove some file in /etc/clc/ or /etc/common-lisp-controller 09:59:45 or something like that 09:59:50 well now I hosed my ql for good because I totally removed the stuff it stuck in sbclrc 09:59:50 :( 10:00:01 and I can't get it back 10:00:06 (load "quicklisp/setup.lisp") 10:01:04 drdo, hmm file doesn't exist 10:01:20 Then you didn't install quicklisp, or used some other path 10:01:29 d2dchat: http://groups.google.com/group/quicklisp/msg/0c25c8cfe228b73c 10:01:57 Dawgmatix [~dman@123.201.201.243] has joined #lisp 10:02:10 https://gist.github.com/517e98b1c4921d454544 10:02:47 How do you handle the naming of slot accessors? 10:02:56 Do you prefix the class name? 10:03:11 depends 10:03:33 but usually i avoid this 10:03:41 I have an issue 10:03:47 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.96.162.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:04:01 Some classes have rather large names and it's not nice to have to accessors with such long names 10:04:43 awesome got the sbclrc file back 10:05:02 On the other hands, if i don't, :USEing packages that :export symbols with the same name that have accessors bound is a problem 10:05:06 *hand 10:05:17 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:35 i don't :use packages 10:06:10 Lochy [~lochy@59.96.162.147] has joined #lisp 10:06:21 why? 10:06:35 what's the purpose of packages if you would prefix everything? 10:06:37 I haven't the faintest idea where ~/.clc/systems is getting set 10:06:47 packages are prefixes 10:06:56 stassats: exactly the point of :use 10:07:03 d2dchat: did you see my link? 10:07:07 if you don't :use, you just prefix everything 10:07:26 drdo: and if you :use, you prefix everything in the name? 10:07:27 drdo: I think he's saying: why would you package if you're not going to prefix anyway 10:07:35 stassats, yes 10:07:41 like you just said, class-accessor 10:07:48 d2dchat: it answers your question 10:08:15 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:09:23 well, i could consider not :useing, but a lot of symbols have really long names, and you end up with code that has like 2 symbols per line and isn't particularly readable 10:09:55 use shorter names 10:10:39 that leads to even less readable code 10:10:59 stassats, OK I tried to reocmpile 10:11:00 https://gist.github.com/3ca78d0fe3183a513c50 10:11:01 that only really works for very fundamental things that everyone knows 10:11:03 and I get something else 10:11:07 drdo: use short descriptive names 10:11:13 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:11:46 ah 10:11:50 I restarted emacs 10:11:53 ran slime again 10:11:54 and no errors 10:11:55 woo! 10:12:16 and I have ql functions now :) 10:12:25 do you call them functions or symbols? 10:12:31 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.96.162.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:12:38 both 10:13:50 cool 10:14:52 thx a bunch for the help today guys! 10:15:52 I'm off to bed.. looking forward to more CLing tomorrow.. I'm hoping my experiences with CL will be better than clojure (most of my experiences with clojure were positive but I thought I'd try to original) 10:16:13 negative experiences with clojure were the package management :) I hate jars 10:16:17 and maven 10:16:18 eww 10:17:10 stassats: can you suggest a better name for be-octet-seq-to-int? 10:17:31 it's already not very clear 10:18:45 (defun octets-to-integer (octets &key (endianness :be)) ...) 10:20:04 that's actually better 10:20:17 although it probably belongs in some util library 10:21:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:24:24 -!- entropi [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:50 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.98.211] has joined #lisp 10:27:41 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:28:04 rplacd [~rplacd@ppp-124-120-115-56.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:30:21 I often want to be able to continue a cond clause (basically say, go on try if any other clause will match, too) 10:30:41 I wonder what would be a sane way for that 10:31:55 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 10:33:11 tcr: do you mean that you want to match several clauses? 10:33:21 tcr: I have that problem a lot of times 10:33:50 Usually ends up with me writing chains of IF's that repeat 10:33:57 -!- rplacd [~rplacd@ppp-124-120-115-56.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:35:54 surely its just a selection of when clauses then 10:35:56 dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:35:57 should be easy to write a cond with a fallthrough function.. but I wouldn't say I "often" wanted to be able to do it.. 10:36:15 unless of course you only want to fall through on specific clauses 10:36:45 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:37:27 like? (cond ((progn (when foo ...) nil))) 10:39:17 blackdawn [~hahah@186-194-35-238.i-next.psi.br] has joined #lisp 10:39:55 -!- blackdawn [~hahah@186-194-35-238.i-next.psi.br] has left #lisp 10:41:20 (cond ((dogfood-unavailable-p) (acquire-dogfood) (fallthrough)) ((feeding-time-p) (feed-the-dog))) ; (incf confusion-potential) 10:41:34 yeah something like that 10:44:24 I guess fallthrough is inappropriate.. maybe resume-cond-tests 10:44:30 Maybe something like http://paste.lisp.org/display/117723  prog on steroids 10:45:02 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.98.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:45:23 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.104.154] has joined #lisp 10:45:30 tcr this looks much better, yes 10:45:55 tcr: show me your favorite 10 or less lines of CL code 10:45:58 tfb [~tfb@94.197.73.64.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:46:16 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 10:47:29 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-234-246.rice.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:48:37 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-153-133.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:40 Quadrescence: Can't think of anything straight out of my head 10:49:50 Quadrescence: (generate-wealth-and-fame) 10:51:41 (and i can't disclose the rest) 10:52:00 :( 10:52:08 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.128.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:52:54 Quadrescence: I think http://paste.lisp.org/+2IU4/1 is quite cool 10:53:01 -!- Frakk [~Frakk@host28-49-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Frakk] 10:54:03 tcr: What is this packet.pldsize business? 10:54:13 Is x.y just a symbol 10:54:15 payload-size 10:54:15 ? 10:54:23 it's a struct accessor 10:54:25 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 10:54:32 neat, is that standard? 10:54:48 or did you define the accessors that way? 10:54:57 (:conc-name packet.) 10:55:01 yeah 10:55:31 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:58:26 tip: print-object methods should return the objects they print 10:58:46 and print-unreadable-object doesn't :/ 10:59:16 Quadrescence: It's not spectacular but I quite like it -> http://lispm.dyndns.org/news?ID=NEWS-2005-07-08-1 10:59:21 the mappings macro 10:59:27 Not my code by the way 10:59:58 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:00:15 Guthur: Yeah, I'd say that's a good tip 11:00:48 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:07 Would be nice if C-c C-c in Slime first signals a native interrupt condition 11:02:24 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-93.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 11:03:53 tcr: does with-header-fields letfs variables named by symbols in ip/tcp packages? 11:04:10 *letf 11:05:25 they're symbol-macros but yes 11:05:28 -!- mg4001 [~mg4001@cpe-76-93-28-217.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:05:40 plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-234-246.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 11:05:46 I see 11:06:23 -!- longshot [~longshot@207.204.226.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:07:54 this is all the nothing I got done yesterday :( http://paste.lisp.org/display/117725 11:08:39 Quadrescence: reminds me of Alan Crowe's pseudocode experiment 11:08:50 what's that? 11:09:58 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/a90616b7e9c139ce , also see followups 11:10:13 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:10:18 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:34 especially http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/a827235ce7466a92 11:10:47 ah yeah :) 11:12:26 yeah, I've just been writing pseudosexp code to try to get some concrete ideas working 11:12:37 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:43 hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:14:48 SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:47 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:17:51 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757471.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:35 -!- emacsAndCheese [~user@207.178.208.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:23:44 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:28:13 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.15.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:29:10 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-159-241.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:41 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A66B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:50 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.104.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:30:05 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:15 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:31:29 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.167] has joined #lisp 11:33:37 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-153-133.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:36:05 -!- justinko [~Adium@c-24-9-175-166.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:36:55 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.167] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:14 hey folks. i've added lots of documentation to this in-progress working draft of a Lispy visual programming language. https://github.com/dto/iosketch/blob/master/blocks.lisp and i'd love to have someone look it over and possibly comment. the video of this is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmtALHVRSTU 11:42:57 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pywynkpwwoefqydv] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:43:30 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.105.38] has joined #lisp 11:43:52 i'm interested in seeing if others like the idea of not using explicit "wires" between elements of the program, instead banning cycles in the graph and just nesting the expressions like in lisp. 11:44:31 programming with arbitrary graphs, worrying about cycles, and needing to position the elements yourself is kind of an issue 11:44:42 with block-and-wire VPL's 11:47:47 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:48:26 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:48:46 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:51:20 xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:39 ignas [~ignas@85-206-23-33.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:55:27 jobf [~jfranck@c-9fbde555.03-87-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:01:59 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.208.222] has joined #lisp 12:03:47 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:21 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 12:05:49 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 12:05:59 It seems like if something depends on a :static-file, and the static file changes, the other thing is not recompiled 12:06:21 is that true? If so, I guess there's no builtin mechanism for that behaviour? 12:10:20 rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-172-53.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:00 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-172-53.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:16:16 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.73.64.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 12:20:00 I'm trying to printf something from a foreign library but the output does not showup 12:20:13 I'm NOT running the code through slime but just in a terminal 12:20:23 Any hints? 12:21:33 does fflush help? stderr is line buffered, stdout isn't (IIRC) 12:22:21 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:15 no it doesn't, I'm writing to stderr and tried fflush(stderr); afterwards even 12:24:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:25:35 now I see something in Slime hrrm 12:26:17 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:27:20 mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:17 http://danariely.com/2010/12/15/locksmiths/ 12:29:23 this is quite interesting 12:31:53 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:33:15 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:33:30 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:33:47 Xof_ [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 12:34:51 -!- Xof_ is now known as Xof 12:35:28 ramus_ [~ramus@99.23.135.92] has joined #lisp 12:37:10 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.237.230] has joined #lisp 12:37:31 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-159-241.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:37:35 -!- petter` [~user@217.118.44.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:52 petter` [~user@217.118.44.36] has joined #lisp 12:41:58 paradoja [~paradoja@211.pool80-103-161.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 12:42:01 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.208.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:42:17 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 12:42:26 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:46 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-exnebsqoyvjhmspp] has joined #lisp 12:43:15 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 12:43:58 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 12:48:01 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:25 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:44 drdo: perhaps we should have our software (at least those that have some kind of user interface), output how much time and effort they required. 12:51:03 (summing the times of the libraries!) 12:52:50 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.130.227] has joined #lisp 12:55:55 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@99.23.135.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:01:19 -!- xan_ 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#lisp 13:13:51 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:14:48 Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:15:57 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-223.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:16:28 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-198-101.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:17:17 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-197-184.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:42 I am looking for freelance lisp developers for a two month (jan - feb) project, if any one is interested please private me 13:17:43 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:03 ramus_ [~ramus@99.23.129.224] has joined #lisp 13:21:31 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:22:25 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 13:22:53 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-197-184.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:25:15 -!- redline6561 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[~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:41:53 minion: logs 14:42:19 tfb [~tfb@92.41.7.79.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:42:34 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 14:42:40 -!- Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:49 Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:42:54 Hi, how would I get this to return the lists? http://paste.lisp.org/display/117729 14:43:58 francogrex: append or collect? 14:44:08 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 14:44:36 you mean I should use finally collect? 14:44:59 no, collect or append in the inner loop 14:45:06 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-163-158.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:45:08 but i don't really know what you're trying to do 14:45:11 I want to split into two lists where rthe first will contain the first values of each pair 14:45:30 You can collect to multiple targets. 14:46:06 and the second the second something like '((50 49 48...) (110 135 129..))) 14:46:44 e-user1 [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-nqxodeekoyslwysf] has joined #lisp 14:46:44 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-pbraksnljpgkutwl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:10 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:28 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 14:47:43 <_3b> francogrex: http://paste.lisp.org/+2IU9/1 ? 14:48:24 <_3b> francogrex: also, line breaks make code much easier to read 14:51:04 _3b: hmm why do we need to append at the end? 14:51:09 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 14:51:47 <_3b> francogrex: to get 1 list instead of nested lists? 14:52:01 *_3b* isn't sure if that was the goal or not 14:52:16 ok. It's good, 14:52:29 -!- ignas [~ignas@85-206-23-33.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:52:32 but i woinder if there is a more trifgtforawrd way 14:52:42 yes it was the goal 14:52:50 straightforward 14:55:07 <_3b> well, you could probably break it up into functions 14:56:11 -!- Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:18 Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:56:33 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-163-158.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:57:25 -!- benny [~benny@i577A320C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:57:55 Anyone here a Spanish native speaker? 15:00:14 garslo [~user@c-71-205-129-52.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:27 i am 15:00:39 (a spanish native speaker) 15:01:06 where is ASDF putting fasls on win32 15:01:18 -!- Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:27 Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:02:01 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:04:57 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 15:04:59 -!- m7w [52d1dfcb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.209.223.203] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:05:05 maybe ~\Application Data\common-lisp\cache 15:05:07 bah, why did objective-c have to use square brackets, now i have to remap my parens back 15:05:34 antgreen [~user@184.163.178.103] has joined #lisp 15:05:52 mitre_: cheers 15:06:21 ok but why wouldn't the code of loop I've written return the lists, why did it just return nil? 15:07:17 <_3b> francogrex: it was returning them from the inner loop, then the outer loop discarded them, and returns NIL 15:08:07 ok I see 15:11:15 I think if if I use iterate's (in outer) in this case wouldn't have helped 15:11:31 s/if/even 15:11:31 js__ [~js@67.208.188.68] has joined #lisp 15:12:12 *_3b* doesn't use iterate, so can't help with that... seem like something it should have though 15:12:34 simias [~simias@2001:41d0:1:ae71::1] has joined #lisp 15:12:46 hello there 15:13:13 do you know how I could do something similar to (directory) that doesn't return the truename of the files? 15:13:23 -!- Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:28 simias: there are implementation-specific ways to do it, sometimes. 15:13:29 Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:13:54 I find this behaviour pretty counterintuitive, I'm baffled that there's no easy and portable way to do that. 15:14:25 Xach: would you know how to do that with sbcl? 15:14:30 heff. it's everything outside lisp that is counterintuitive ;) 15:14:42 simias: (directory ... :resolve-symlinks nil) 15:14:54 Xach: nice, thanks 15:15:04 schmx: yo mama's counterintuitive 15:15:12 yes, yes, she is. 15:15:27 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 15:15:27 *js__* snickers 15:16:17 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 15:16:19 it's really that kind of things that makes cl such a poor language for "quick scripts" IMO 15:16:29 not that I want to start a flamewar or anything 15:16:47 I'd use one of the more posix-oriented libraries. 15:16:48 don't, then 15:17:00 well, thing is, I'd like to 15:17:09 pkhuong: yeah, I'm looking into that as well 15:17:26 I wanted to send a request out for someone to add that keyword parameter to cl-fad:list-directory 15:17:36 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [] 15:17:36 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 15:17:45 If you want to improve status quo, that might be something useful to do 15:17:57 -!- js__ [~js@67.208.188.68] has quit [Quit: restting nick] 15:18:25 ah, well, that would be a good solution 15:18:44 but do you know if all lisps supported by cl-fad have something that does that in effect? 15:19:03 I'll look into that with my novice lisp skills 15:19:18 simias: In case one does not, you signal an error 15:19:32 or ask the implementator to add it 15:20:42 s1ugg0 [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:13 js0000 [~js@67.208.188.68] has joined #lisp 15:21:16 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 15:21:27 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@99.115.64.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:22:34 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-118-190-31.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:46 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:26:01 -!- lharc2 [~user@88.131.67.194] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:26:41 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:19 muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:26 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:30:38 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:33:16 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:33:58 Bronsa [~brace@host204-175-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:36:49 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:38:59 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-118-190-31.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:19 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-118-190-31.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-91-200.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:46:28 dto: hey! 15:47:13 dto: you inspired me to make http://xach.com/lisp/symbols/ - feedback welcome. 15:47:29 -!- Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47:38 Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:51:11 *Xach* doesn't have the time to slog thorugh it, though :) 15:51:48 *Xach* ran into 5 or 6 completely unrecognized symbols when making it through the Cs, though 15:51:59 <_3b> Xach: should make the score always visible, more motivation to keep clicking that way :p 15:52:09 _3b: ah, good point. 15:53:03 Xach, do you have a script that works through my files looking for the things I already used? so that I just have to select "heard of it"/"new" on a subset ... 15:53:06 ;-) 15:53:20 tcr: AIUI, fad's central design concept is to always use truenames, so that keyword argument (which should be standard behaviour anyway) cannot exist in fad. 15:53:34 flip214: afraid not. 15:55:49 urandom__ [~user@p548A51C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-11.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:59:10 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 15:59:15 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.130.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:17 _3b: ok, i changed it to do that. 15:59:26 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 16:00:06 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:00:06 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01:59 Xach: maybe you should break that into several sections 16:02:10 from most common to most obscure 16:02:14 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-193-156.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:02:21 simias: "obscure" is a relative term. 16:02:51 well, my point being that having this super long list of terms don't make me want to try and fill the form 16:02:54 not for free at least :) 16:03:05 -!- Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:03:13 *rtoym* finds that a neat list, but is way to lazy to click through all 3912 entries. 16:03:13 Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:03:21 if you displayed only ~100 terms at first 16:03:24 and then went on 16:03:27 there are only 978. 16:03:29 "only" 16:03:40 one would stop when he/she gets bored or when things become too obscure 16:03:49 I *think* you might get better results 16:03:49 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:00 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:22 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.237.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:04:30 I'm a lisp newbie but &key is definitely much less obscure than &aux for instance 16:04:34 Yeah, I thought 3912 seemed a bit high. What does 3912 mean then? 16:04:55 rtoym: you get three points for "Used it" and one point for "Heard of it". 16:05:17 Maybe that's a pointless complication. 16:05:34 Oh. My score is .64%, when I stopped. :-) 16:06:17 Xach: maybe you should compute the result based on the number of answers given, not the number of entries as well 16:06:21 I don't know 16:06:59 <_3b> do you lose points for having used c[ad]+r with more than 2 a|d? :p 16:07:44 an idea that would be nice, but a little more work, instead of radio's: (arrow keys) down for next question, left for 'used it', right for 'heard of it', if skipped it implies 'new to me', that way you can fill it in real fast :) 16:07:49 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:08:38 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-123.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:10:08 _3b: Haha! 16:10:23 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has left #lisp 16:10:53 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has joined #lisp 16:10:58 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:01 lichtblau: sorry I didn't get the keyword part 16:11:15 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:11:22 lichtblau: Oh ok had trouble parsing your sentence, sorry 16:12:01 lichtblau: I talked to Edi, he said a patch would go in if it's good enough not to cause any work on him 16:16:08 -!- vlion` [~user@CPE-76-178-165-160.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:16:14 I really don't understand how dealing only with truenames is a sane default 16:16:33 what other language does that? 16:19:06 simias: Very few decisions like that were made without a lot of thought. It's generally safe to assume there was some context that made it defensible in some respect at the time. 16:19:17 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 16:19:44 well, for what I see of the way cl handles paths, the "at the time" seems to be a very long time ago 16:19:51 simias: Peter Seibel has a long talk about the process - you can listen to it at http://lisp.geek.nz/weekly-repl/ 16:20:18 I'll listen to that, thanks 16:21:22 simias: One thing he mentioned is that people sometimes tend to think that some CL decisions were bad because people didn't know any better, but the reality is that many of the decisions were controversial and discussed to death but finally had to come down on one side or another. I think he cites nil as false as one generating dozens and dozens of emails back and forth. 16:21:45 sure, at the time was mostly 1985 or so 16:21:52 ah, sure, I'm not pretending I know better 16:22:12 actually, I think the whole pathname business made great sense at the time 16:22:12 *Xach* wants to see the email archive Peter got from Richard Gabriel 16:22:40 one hypothesis I have for the pathname interface in CL is that at the time, the model was one implementation per platform 16:23:08 so the pathname (truename) stuff was to provide a guaranteed minimum set of functionality, and each implementation would also provide specialist, unportable pathname stuff for its own platform 16:23:13 yeah, it tries to unify all the different representations 16:23:27 well, no, I don't think "unify" is right -- I think they aimed for "subset" not "superset" 16:23:36 mmh 16:23:44 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 16:24:28 but anyway, now that there are more implementations, and they all try to run on every platform, including wacky ones like Windows, the design space is different, and the pathname spec is (now) unhelpfully constraining, at least when you try to provide superset capabilities through this basically subset interface 16:24:34 ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 16:24:38 my take, for what it's worth. (I wasn't born then) 16:24:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:24:52 for the issue I posted a few hours ago for which _3b offered a solution, I also found a way to do it with iterate if someone is interested here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117732 16:25:02 well, I'm sure others have thought of that, but I'd really like a "scripting" cl, something meant for running small scripts, with a fast startup time, decent performances but no need for something ultra fast, and a set of nice library for doing un*x hackery 16:25:24 simias: That sounds reasonable. Do it! 16:25:42 simias: looked at ecl? 16:25:45 tmiller [~tmiller@li76-8.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:46 basically, something to replace perl in my use of it 16:25:59 Xach: well, I'm no fool, if it's not been done yet, there must be a catch :) 16:26:06 dlowe: ah, not yet 16:26:13 or clisp. 16:26:14 simias: Absolutely not! Someone has to actually *do* the stuff to make progress. 16:26:34 simias: It doesn't come from nowhere. The pool of effort isn't big enough for good things to inevitably happen. 16:27:03 and even then it is not guaranteed 16:27:34 Microsoft has a massive pool, and good things rarely happen 16:27:36 simias: For what it's worth, I use CL for most of my scripting, but I use the repl instead of the command-line, mostly. For stuff I want to run from the command-line I make programs with buildapp. 16:27:45 Xach: well, sure, but I've seen enough "newbies" coming into a new community and wanting to revolution everything to know better 16:28:00 I prefer to talk with you knowledgeable people first 16:28:24 not all "newbies" are created equally 16:28:25 simias: People who know where the potholes are tend to just drive around them instead of fill them in. 16:28:37 and try not to reinvent the wheel 16:28:39 "Potholes? What potholes?" 16:28:52 some come with a large baggage of other porgramming knowledge that they can input into cl 16:29:18 Then you get into moronic discussions along the lines of "What you're trying to do is stupid" rather than "What you're trying to do isn't easy by default, but it would be nice if it was easy" 16:29:41 francogrex: well, I do know C, C++ and perl pretty well, but I'm not here to turn lisp into any of them, I'm more interested to learn the "lisp way" and see how it goes 16:29:46 Anyway, make nice stuff and share it! 16:30:32 maybe sometimes what one tries to do could be better or more easily achieved using an other way 16:30:41 but anyway, thank you for your positive thinking Xach :) 16:31:06 it's sorely missing in certain channels around there 16:31:25 my first lisp program, 12 years ago, was a clisp wrapper that probed every computer in my college's computer room, using queso, nmap and similar to determine what OS they were running; then used an appropriate method to discover who was logged in; then generated a web page containing images of all the computers, linked to send e-mail to whoever was on them, refreshed every so often (from cron), and printed the last updated date in roman numerals expressed ab 16:31:25 urbe condita 16:31:49 I didn't share it, so maybe that's why the situation today is as dire as it is :-) 16:32:18 I've played with quicklisp today by the way 16:32:21 it's really cool 16:32:36 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@211.pool80-103-161.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:32:43 I think that's a good example of something that should've been made way earlier 16:32:48 I've been really happy writing the quicklisp aggregator bit in SBCL with some light wrappers around run-program. makes it really easy to spawn svn, darcs, git, etc with a nice, reasonably concise syntax. 16:32:56 asdf is nice but... not not nice enough 16:33:10 oh, you wrote quicklisp? 16:33:14 kudos to you then 16:33:21 Yes. 16:33:32 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@123.201.201.243] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:33:42 it's actually the reason I'm here today 16:33:46 *PissedNumlock* gives Xach a drive-by hug for his work 16:33:47 made me want to hack some more lisp 16:34:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:34:21 Inspiring me to do more local-time work 16:34:25 One of my favorite utility macros is (with-temporary-directory ...), which sets up a new directory and aligns *default-pathname-defaults* and the posix CWD with it, and blows it away on exit. Makes it easy to have a lot of intermediate results that are automatically discarded. 16:34:59 *Xach* must share, share, share 16:37:06 ecl looks nice 16:38:55 kanru [~kanru@118-160-164-24.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:15 Queue the share the software song 16:40:42 -!- Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:55 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 16:41:29 *Xach* prefers "Save Lisp and Die!" by the Wild Inferiors 16:42:29 zomgbie [~jesus@91.137.20.132] has joined #lisp 16:42:29 mmh, "Cannot find the external symbol BUILD-PROGRAM in #<"C" package>." when starting slime with ecl, does that look familiar to anyone? 16:42:48 simias: Are you using ecl from git? 16:43:18 I'm using the arch package, that's ecl-10.4.1-1 if I trust it 16:43:41 you need this first: (require 'cmp) 16:43:59 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-193-156.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:44:13 simias: that's pretty old, and there have been a number of bugfixes. it won't work with quicklisp. i recommend pulling from git. 16:44:21 though it should have loaded automatically 16:44:25 ah 16:44:28 francogrex: in my .emacs? 16:44:33 or ecl's rc file? 16:44:56 try the rc file, but as xach said, ecl 10.4.1 is not the best right now 16:45:02 ok 16:45:06 I'll try to update then 16:45:07 thanks 16:45:20 you are on linux I suppose 16:45:58 10.7.1 should be ok then; from cvs 16:51:23 mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:58 mmh, the arch package is severely outdated then 16:54:29 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.179.161] has joined #lisp 16:55:15 willkurt [86c56fc4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.134.197.111.196] has joined #lisp 16:55:16 Not an uncommon situation when it comes to distros. 16:56:16 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:57:07 kenjin [~kenjin@211.177.89.126] has joined #lisp 16:57:17 severely outdated maybe too strong, let's say it had some annoying bugs 16:57:20 . 16:57:33 -!- kenjin is now known as Guest76042 16:57:52 well, thank you for your help and advices, I'm going home 16:57:55 simias: You could go with ecl-unicode-git (: 16:58:09 Does remove-duplicates conserve the order of the given list? 16:58:21 schmx: that's in AUR or in extra? 16:58:29 not that it makes much of a difference 16:58:36 Guest76042: sure 16:58:37 simias: aur 16:58:41 Guest76042: "The order of the elements remaining in the result is the same as the order in which they appear in sequence." is what the clhs says. 16:58:44 schmx: thanks 16:58:55 Thank you 17:00:13 -!- Guthur [c0c1f510@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.16] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:00:33 justinko [~Adium@c-24-9-175-166.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:43 -!- e-user1 [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-nqxodeekoyslwysf] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:02:57 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-196-249.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:04:30 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 17:05:05 whoa Xach 17:05:14 it'll take me a while to complete :) 17:05:32 it's only 978 multiple choice questions 17:06:06 MoALTz [~no@92.8.25.126] has joined #lisp 17:06:43 dto: Needs some sort of streamlining, for sure. 17:07:43 -!- compmstr [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:09:45 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:53 Xach: can i set everything to "i've used it", so then i can uncheck not used? 17:13:05 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.7.79.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:13:55 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:14:10 stassats: That seems sensible. 17:14:27 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-cqaikxjzwghhyuvu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:16:24 xach, i'm forcing myself to click on the ones i didn't know at all 17:16:26 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 17:16:52 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:18:14 Xach it's too bad one can't pop up the definition in a frame or something, instead of opening many separate windows 17:18:52 it would be interesting to distribute this as a big lisp file so that i can use elisp info lookup in the info version of the cl standard 17:20:06 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:20:24 do i actually have to check No since it doesn't add points? 17:20:51 dto: no. 17:21:45 l1sp.org/cl/+++ broken url 17:22:23 huh. 17:22:33 *Krystof* learns about *print-gensym*. And *print-miser-width*, come to that 17:22:46 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 17:23:21 dto: not all links work, sorry. 17:23:27 it's ok :) 17:23:37 yeah this is actually really an amazing tool 17:23:44 i've read the case/ccase/ecase page 1000 times, but until today i didn't realize ccase existed. 17:23:59 decaf [~mehmet@78.168.99.170] has joined #lisp 17:24:02 and i was surprised to see it next to the other two on the same page. not even properly hiding! 17:24:11 i wonder if i should port your quiz to elisp. 17:25:30 Xach: roughly my reaction to "clear-output" 17:26:14 *Xach* did know about clear-output from one clhs-dive or another 17:27:21 I'd pretty hazy with adjoin / pairlis / nreconc too 17:27:39 "they do some unspeakable list manipulation" 17:27:40 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-123.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:28:04 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [] 17:28:22 i always think of adjoin as the functional pushnew. 17:29:14 i remember nreconc and ldiff (but not exactly what they do) because of the cute sans function in http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3247672165664225@naggum.no.html 17:29:37 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 17:30:10 hmm, i guess i was thinking of revappend. 17:32:01 hrmpf, are the hu.dwim people still around sometimes? 17:32:29 Yes, though not in the past 24/48 hours or so. 17:32:54 they must have sensed my barrage of questions piling up (-: 17:33:09 that's what nyef did to me :( 17:33:22 SILENT TREATMENT 17:39:05 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:40:43 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:56 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757471.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:47 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-198-22-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:22 hey so antifuchs are you the one interested in VPL's? i've added lots of docs and code to https://github.com/dto/iosketch/blob/master/blocks.lisp and would like to see what other people think of the design. 17:50:38 -!- decaf [~mehmet@78.168.99.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:51:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl51B6ABFE.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 17:51:07 -!- mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53:16 -!- symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:33 mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:33 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:55:40 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:32 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:59:57 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:00:10 -!- 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[182e1748@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.46.23.72] has left #lisp 19:00:38 chupish [182e1748@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.46.23.72] has joined #lisp 19:02:37 -!- garslo [~user@c-71-205-129-52.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:06 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:08:20 adu [~ajr@64.134.240.174] has joined #lisp 19:08:50 -!- aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:41 what is the cause of "dont know how to dump #OBJName (default make-load-form method called)" in macros ? 19:09:44 craiggle1 [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 19:13:25 hallo dto 19:13:45 stdDoubt: you're passing a literal object to the compiler. 19:13:53 Likely a (missing) quoting bug. 19:18:28 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.171.108] has joined #lisp 19:19:54 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:20:55 thanks...during macro expansion I cannot calculate any values based on the passed arguments right? (like calling function with the list of arguments passed to the macro outside a back-quote)? 19:21:12 yes, you can! 19:21:31 mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:21 <|3b|> stdDoubt: you just need to keep in mind what the arguments are at macroexpansion time 19:23:58 but the return of a macro is a back-quoted expression? 19:23:58 <|3b|> specifically symbols, code fragments, etc, as opposed to variables or whatever they might be at run time 19:24:22 <|3b|> the return of a macro should be a valid lisp form, backquote is just a convenient way to build forms 19:24:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:24:38 <|3b|> you could just as validly use LIST, CONS, etc to build up the form 19:24:40 is it possible then to create new objects at expansion time? 19:25:05 <|3b|> possible, yes, useful is a bit more questionable 19:25:07 the specific issue is that not all values can (portably) be dumped in a fasl. 19:25:54 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 19:26:06 <|3b|> another issue is that macros should be idempotent, so usually you want to expand to code that has side effects rather than doing so during macroexpansion 19:26:19 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:26:41 I was parsing a expression to build a grammar object...I am using a macro to take the expression and construct the corresponding objects 19:27:09 by grammar object -- an object that represents context free grammars in this case 19:27:51 I am instanciating new objects to represent grammar rules and in the end I am returning the grammar object 19:28:27 the problem as pkhuong noted is that I can pass a literal object to the compiler 19:28:40 what is the most elegant solution to this problem? 19:29:03 stdDoubt: have the macro return an expression that constructs the object. 19:30:28 wolfbytes [~wolfbytes@c-24-125-60-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:24 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:57 mg4001 [~mg4001@cpe-76-93-28-217.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:02 lukego [~lukegorri@adsl-84-226-217-15.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:33:32 -!- craiggle1 [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:33:44 *Xach* wonders if http://lisper.ru/pcl/ is legit 19:34:07 -!- chupish [182e1748@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.46.23.72] has quit [] 19:35:50 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:35:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-11.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37:12 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:37:22 Xach: why wouldn't it be? 19:38:28 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-70-78.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:39:17 simias: I wasn't aware that anyone other than gigamonkey had permission to host and distribute the book, regardless of the language. 19:39:33 *Xach* will ask gigamonkey when he visits next 19:39:56 oh, "legit" in that meaning 19:40:19 "legal" ? :) 19:40:51 Legitimity and legality do sometimes overlap. 19:41:04 yeah, it just confused me at first 19:41:23 I thought he was talking about the quality of the content, not the legality 19:41:39 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 19:41:42 -!- Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:47 Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:43:59 > .ru 19:44:00 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:06 i'm gonna go with 'not legit' :> 19:44:27 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.174.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:45:06 Caffeine [~MJ@206.167.80.90] has joined #lisp 19:46:06 -!- Max_- is now known as Guest1723 19:46:14 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 19:46:17 -!- stdDoubt [~ptiago@darwin.di.uminho.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:21 well, or "legit in russia" :) 19:47:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-93.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:48:12 howdy y'all 19:50:19 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50:31 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757471.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:39 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@91.137.20.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:52:33 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082A519.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:51 DarthShrine [~angus@60-242-109-62.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 19:53:51 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@60-242-109-62.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 19:53:51 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 19:54:15 entropax [~entropi@192.55.54.36] has joined #lisp 19:55:18 -!- daniel [~daniel@p50829DD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:55:30 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:57:22 heya slyrus 19:58:34 -!- jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:59:42 *Xach* files ASDF bug 690814 19:59:57 -!- tmiller [~tmiller@li76-8.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 20:00:03 asdf has so many bugs? 20:00:27 pnq [~nick@AC814EAF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:57 -!- Harag [~user@iburst-41-213-43-143.iburst.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:14 jackerran [~tmiller@li76-8.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:30 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 20:02:39 stassats: if knuth wrote it, he would be *so* broke right now 20:03:08 lol 20:03:40 jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:04:39 -!- Guest1723 [~satanama@216.252.92.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:12 Guest1723 [~satanama@216.252.92.19] has joined #lisp 20:05:44 Xach: he'd switch to epsilon, i guess 20:05:53 Xach: lolol 20:05:55 locci [~nes@93.37.192.16] has joined #lisp 20:06:17 Xach: if knuth wrote it, that would be bug number 2 20:07:43 -!- charliekilo [~charlieki@70-89-224-81-BusName-panjde.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 20:08:27 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.192.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:12:09 -!- churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:12:42 -!- churib_ [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:13:19 -!- antgreen [~user@184.163.178.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:59 -!- justinko [~Adium@c-24-9-175-166.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:20:33 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:21:45 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01040c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:12 Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has joined #lisp 20:24:16 hi 20:25:00 any suggestion about a easy to use impl of LISP ? 20:25:21 hi 20:25:42 Gmind: Common Lisp is pretty easy to use. 20:26:38 ya, but I mean a .... something better than GNU CLISP ( more intuitive like Racket , can integrate into Emacs )? 20:27:02 Gmind: If you like Racket, why not use Racket? 20:27:37 Gmind: I like to use SBCL with Emacs+slime. 20:29:10 Gmind: that is a great combination 20:29:58 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-205-247.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:19 hey, Racket can use w/ Common LISP too ? 20:31:34 that did not parse 20:31:36 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-210-81.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:10 Gmind: Racket is scheme 20:32:26 and yeah, sbcl integrates nicely with slime in emacs 20:32:41 For what it's worth, Racket is off-topic for #lisp, scheme or not. In case anyone wanted to go off on that tangent. 20:32:56 TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:05 Quick on trigger ;) 20:33:31 Bronsa [~brace@host204-175-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:33:47 mmh, it feels like there is some kind of traumatism on the subject? :) 20:33:54 sbcl ? 20:34:02 steel bank common lisp 20:34:03 steal bank clisp ? 20:34:12 http://www.sbcl.org/ 20:34:13 ;)) ok 20:34:30 now is how to integrate that on window =)) 20:34:37 with emacs 20:34:51 I don't know how sbcl runs on windows 20:34:52 or slime 20:34:53 http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html 20:34:59 says it's a port in progress 20:35:03 Gmind: please, don't call Common Lisp "clisp" 20:35:10 <|3b|> Gmind: if you want to abbreviate 'Common Lisp' use 'CL' not 'clisp'... clisp is a specific implementation of common lisp, so using it for generic term is confusing 20:35:14 sbcl runs ok on windows. clozure cl works pretty well. 20:35:19 The proper abbreviation of Common Lisp is CL. 20:35:47 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:55 so, do you guys think I can write clisp using Racket? 20:35:59 or just  20:36:18 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:36:37 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.171.108] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:16 CL 20:37:19 =.= 20:37:20 ok 20:38:21 I called clisp because of GNU CLISP is what I used at the 1st time approaching to CL 20:38:25 simias: .... clisp is a name of an implementation, not language. The language is called ANSI Common Lisp (old versions being Common Lisp the Language 1 & 2 - nicknamed cltl1 and cltl2). The proper abbreviation is CL or ANSI CL. If you say "clisp", basically everyone here will assume you are talking about GNU CLISP (to differentiate from GCL, GNU Common Lisp) 20:38:57 I was kidding :) 20:39:04 :P So this won't happen next time 20:39:18 p_l|backup: interesting bits of history however 20:39:27 among new friends it can be hard to distinguish ironic stupidity from actual stupidity. 20:39:45 damn, minion is still on a sick leave. We should add that bit of explanation just in case, typing it all was tedious 20:40:07 I was usually on #Scheme 20:40:08 and we should fire the Common Lisp marketing team. Oh wait, that happened. nvm... 20:40:36 :P so Adding something to explain may be a need 20:40:40 hi simias 20:40:42 slyrus_: well I think they forgot to put a replacement team :) 20:40:43 slyrus_: was it before it was hired? 20:41:03 slyrus_: are you sure they got fired? 20:41:08 dto just pasted "Iosketch mindmapping why I think it is neat" http://paste.lisp.org/+2IUG 20:41:31 Some people proposed hostile takeover of the board that hired them 20:41:34 ^_- 20:41:50 wow mon_key that's interesting. how did you make it? emacs artist-mode? 20:42:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.91.2] 20:42:10 dto: patiently :) 20:42:21 i could spend a lot of time looking up all the different nodes 20:42:29 dto artist mode doesn't cut it most of the time. 20:42:44 mon_key: iosketch is the new xiomacs, i changed the name. 20:42:44 mon_key: did you do that by hand? 20:42:54 prxq: yes 20:43:17 also, proton is merged into iosketch so that iosketch is a self contained object system and language 20:43:25 s/language/visual language/ 20:43:31 mon_key: wow. 20:43:48 btw, anyone knows if Symbolics LispMs were still used to work on CM-2 or CM-5, or if OpenGenera could have been used as developement environment for them? 20:43:53 dto: yes these were part of my questions. how iosketch relates to your pre-existing projects 20:44:05 i thought protons were supposed to merge with electrons 20:44:07 mon_key: iosketch absorbs everything 20:44:13 so that we get neutrons 20:44:40 dto: ok so, the modules are from xe2 are what you refer to in the readme/docs? 20:45:15 mon_key: yes, i haven't split up the old xe2 repo yet. The new module terahertz is available though. but i have made api changes this week so it may not work. 20:47:43 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 20:49:24 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 20:50:10 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-162-91.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:51:40 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-93.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:35 gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.67] has joined #lisp 21:05:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-65-1.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:07:47 -!- adu [~ajr@64.134.240.174] has quit [Quit: adu] 21:08:37 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 21:10:36 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:16:16 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.150.75] has joined #lisp 21:16:37 francogrex [~user@109.130.67.236] has joined #lisp 21:16:38 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:27 This is something they teach in lisp kindergarten probably but still don't understand it: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117740 21:17:34 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:07 why would #\) be looking for a left parenthesis when #\[ is supposed to be replacing #\( ? 21:18:27 the reader macro for #\( is looking for #\) 21:19:12 clhs read-delimited-list 21:19:19 try (set-macro-character #\[ (lambda (stream char) (read-delimited-list #\] stream))) instead 21:19:19 it takes the terminating character as argument. 21:20:12 Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has joined #lisp 21:20:16 -!- Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has left #lisp 21:21:21 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:21:26 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-79-19.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:21:40 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-57-59.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:24:20 -!- TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:31 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:34 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.44] has joined #lisp 21:28:35 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-162-91.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 21:30:58 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host204-175-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:32:00 sabayonuser [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:11 -!- sabayonuser is now known as osoleve 21:33:45 bah, lisppaste-region doesn't work anymore :-/ 21:34:21 anyway, it's one line, can I paste here? :-) found a bug in iterate and I'm not sure my message to the devel list got through 21:34:22 (iter (for i in '(1 2 3 4 5 6)) (if (oddp i) (collect i at start) (collect i))) 21:34:38 this errors out with "NIL is not a CONS" 21:35:12 -!- replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:35:18 the following works though: 21:35:21 (iter (for i in '(1 2 3 4 5 6)) (if (not (oddp i)) (collect i at start) (collect i))) 21:38:02 andthis? (iter (for i in '(2 1 2 3 4 5 6)) (if (oddp i) (collect i at start) (collect i))) 21:38:53 francogrex: that works, but if you negate the condition it doesn't anymore 21:39:17 francogrex: my point is that it seems to be significant where you push first: at start, or at end? 21:39:31 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.150.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:35 it's easy to see the problem by macroexpanding, we get a line like: 21:39:53 (SETF (CDR #3#) #4#) 21:39:59 but #3# is initially nil 21:39:59 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 21:40:38 *mishoo* thinks ..oO( so I have to be subscribed in order to post to the list... just got the reject notification :-/ ) 21:41:43 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:42:02 what list are you talking about? 21:42:10 the iterate-devel list 21:42:24 I know, it's hard to post there 21:43:04 I wouldn't mind subscribing if it were on google groups and one click away, but come on... >-) 21:43:28 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050067059.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:43:37 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: I feel I'm knockin' on Heaven's door] 21:44:39 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:44 francogr` [~user@109.130.33.103] has joined #lisp 21:46:58 is iterate-devel it not on gmane? 21:47:09 s/it// 21:47:40 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.67.236] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:47:48 *prxq* .oO(giving "is erate-devel not on gmane", sigh] 21:47:51 "is erate-devel it not on gmane?" 21:47:53 :D 21:47:54 -!- francogr` is now known as francogrex 21:48:07 :) 21:49:13 really now, is this stuff still maintained? 21:49:49 bgs100 [~ian@h139.16.131.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:49 -!- bgs100 [~ian@h139.16.131.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:49:49 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:50:09 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 21:50:58 -!- jackerran [~tmiller@li76-8.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:50:59 mishoo: not sure. The last version of iterate I have seems to date from 2005 21:51:04 mishoo: lisp software is deceptive in this respect. What often happens is that it is pretty much done, so there are no changes 21:51:49 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:51:53 and the lists stay dormant for ages 21:52:14 I've seen patches applied seven years after being submitted :-) 21:52:41 hi drdo 21:52:43 prxq: where ? 21:53:12 fe[nl]ix: no way I'm telling you :-D 21:54:28 well, I've seen lots of good software that is still maintained 21:54:58 Hello 21:55:03 I guess it depends on who is the author, how much (free?) time he has and how much he cares. :-) 21:55:31 mishoo: I think iterate is still mantained. 21:55:34 take sbcl for example: "good software that is still pretty well maintained" 21:55:41 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:55:51 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:05 mishoo: in most cases there are workarounds 21:56:16 take geco. It is mantained. It's just that not much has happened in about a two decades 21:56:17 xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 21:56:26 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 21:57:00 francogrex: for this particular problem, the workaround is obvious -- collect into two named lists ('first and 'second) and append them in (finally) 21:57:01 aidalgol_ [aidan@self-implosion.info] has joined #lisp 21:57:09 sykopomp [~user@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:10 but it's just a pity that this bug exists... 21:58:01 anywayz, /me has to run soon, but I'll try to step in and provide a patch to fix this 21:58:29 *mishoo* thinks ..oO( and then it will be a question of *when* someone applies it and releases a new version, bwhahahah. ) 21:59:21 -!- aidalgol_ [aidan@self-implosion.info] has quit [Client Quit] 22:00:04 I know, take this for exmple which is also a bug 22:00:57 I tried to report it but noone cared: (let ((my-list '((1 2 2 3 2 3) (2 3 2)))) (iter (for i in my-list) (print (count 2 i)))) 22:01:12 why? 22:01:42 aidalgol [aidan@self-implosion.info] has joined #lisp 22:02:24 because they expect you to find a workaround yourself; something like: (let ((my-list '((1 2 2 3 2 3) (2 3 2)))) (iter (for i in my-list) (print (funcall #'count 2 i)))) 22:03:18 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:03:19 -!- aidalgol [aidan@self-implosion.info] has quit [Client Quit] 22:04:07 that's pretty tricky to fix I guess, as count is shadowed to have a different meaning inside the iterate body 22:05:19 yes but the point is as long as there are other ways to do it, it is assumed that you were wrongly using the tool in the first place, hence there is nothing to fix 22:05:30 Hum. I just discovered that apparently, producing a quoted circular list as part of a macroexpansion wreaks havoc on tools (ex: a nice infinite loop while trying to check the expansion in slime because *print-circle* is nil by default). I seem to remember maybe the standard even prohibited such circularity in macroexpansions?... 22:05:58 francogrex: well, it's a wrong assumption in most cases :-) 22:06:06 Hexstream: depends on where the circularity happens, but if it's in literals, I don't see why there would be an issue. 22:06:14 but I really gotta go. good afternoon, good evening and good night! 22:06:25 ok later 22:06:29 mishoo: isn't that (shadowing count) a violation on the CL package? 22:06:29 mishoo: good morning! 22:06:29 pkhuong: Well, there is, apparently. 22:07:13 I have some list that I wanted to iterate over "circularly", and if I can detect at compile-time that it's a quoted list, I make it a circular quoted list so I don't have to check if I'm at the end of the list so I can start over, for more efficiency. 22:07:46 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.44] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:07:55 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.67] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 22:08:26 francogrex: sorry, that question was actually for you 22:08:31 Entering '#1=("test" . #1#) at the REPL of SBCL 1.0.42 produces an infinite loop when trying to print the result (because *print-circle* is nil I guess) 22:08:53 Hexstream: right. Not a problem with the code, nor with the compiler. 22:09:02 just bind *print-circle* if you're going to print circular data. 22:09:13 (or *print-depth*) 22:09:39 Well, I guess people would really hate me if trying to check the macroexpansion of my macro results in an infinite loop, especially if they don't know C-c C-c and stuff. 22:10:04 rorye [~dave_chim@203-158-53-157.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 22:10:58 I can't do such binding for Slime's C-c C-m, however. I'm thinking slime should do such binding by default (*print-circle* to t). If producing such a macroexpansion is not universally frowned upon, that is. 22:11:49 replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:55 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 22:12:10 pmd: if you shadow count from the CL package it won't help 22:13:10 aidalgol [aidan@self-implosion.info] has joined #lisp 22:14:24 -!- aidalgol [aidan@self-implosion.info] has quit [Client Quit] 22:15:00 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:15:10 Youch, *print-circle* t really makes the expansion ugly. I will forego the circular quoted list optimization after all. Too bad. 22:15:31 aidalgol [aidan@self-implosion.info] has joined #lisp 22:15:36 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A51C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:40 rtoym: JFYI, Juan confirmed that there exists bug in logical pathnames operations in ECL. 22:15:44 -!- aidalgol [aidan@self-implosion.info] has quit [Client Quit] 22:15:48 rtoym: "we're working on it"(c) 22:16:45 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.22] has joined #lisp 22:17:03 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 22:17:04 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:17:46 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:52 -!- powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-60-229-24.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 22:19:59 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 22:20:15 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:22:20 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:22:35 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:49 Hexstream: *print-depth* 22:24:36 I don't want to inflict an infinite loop on users who try to macroexpand with C-c C-m and stuff. 22:24:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-65-1.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:26:16 cowhm [~Android@123.sub-174-253-241.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 22:28:44 And *print-depth* would have a side-effect of making the macroexpansion less readable (through omissions), like *print-circle* would (through unwanted indication of "sharing" for gensyms). 22:28:46 davazp [~user@3.Red-83-46-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:02 -!- cowhm [~Android@123.sub-174-253-241.myvzw.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:30:03 aidalgol [aidan@self-implosion.info] has joined #lisp 22:31:06 cowhm [~Android@123.sub-174-253-241.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:58 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-196-249.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:32:25 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 22:33:14 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 22:34:44 -!- cowhm [~Android@123.sub-174-253-241.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:34 -!- rorye [~dave_chim@203-158-53-157.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 22:36:36 rorye [~dave_chim@203-158-53-157.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 22:36:43 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.33.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:50 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 22:45:16 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 22:49:05 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:23 -!- strlen_ is now known as strlen 22:51:14 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:44 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-79-19.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:51:44 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:52:01 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-110-206.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:52:04 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050067059.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:53:05 entropi [~entropi@192.55.54.38] has joined #lisp 22:53:46 -!- entropax [~entropi@192.55.54.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:52 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:00:13 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 23:02:10 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 23:02:52 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:31 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.221.127] has joined #lisp 23:03:50 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.221.127] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:52 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 23:11:05 Good morning everyone! 23:11:55 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:12:35 -!- muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:13:04 hi plage :) 23:13:22 -!- pnq [~nick@AC814EAF.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:16:55 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:35 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-162-91.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:17:42 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:17:52 hey beach, are you back in vietnam? 23:22:43 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:25:51 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:55 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:34 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.49.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:27:41 -!- horze [~kim@c-740972d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: horze] 23:27:56 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.49.8] has joined #lisp 23:28:29 agon [~agon12312@pD9E2786A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:35 hello there 23:29:11 Hi! 23:29:44 slyrus: I am, yes. 23:29:50 slyrus: This time for 6 months. 23:29:58 wow, sounds great. have fun! 23:30:08 Thanks! 23:30:48 *plage* will go away briefly to transfer to the restaurant. 23:32:01 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:01 Frakk [~Frakk@host36-60-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:34:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-91-200.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: Sleeping... or something like that.] 23:35:19 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:35:35 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 23:35:54 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 23:36:16 mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:39 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01040c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:42:25 -!- agon [~agon12312@pD9E2786A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 23:43:29 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 23:47:06 earlgray_ [~EarlGray@88.154.73.226] has joined #lisp 23:48:47 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-223.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:51:15 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:53:56 -!- Caffeine [~MJ@206.167.80.90] has quit [] 23:54:39 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 23:57:21 necroforest [~jarred@pool-108-18-226-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp