00:00:06 -!- silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: cheers] 00:03:28 -!- freddie111 [~user@150.140.233.71] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:06:57 What kind of data structure is #S ? 00:07:31 seangrove: structs are printed as #S(...) by default. 00:07:37 ah, ok 00:11:40 I can't figure out how to get the values out of this struct :P anyone have a quick postgresql example? 00:12:23 actually, http://paste.lisp.org/display/117474 00:12:24 seangrove: you need to use the struct accessors. 00:12:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:12:58 I've tried (status and (postgresql::status... 00:13:19 What's the accessor i should be using, and how can I tell from the returned struct? 00:13:43 by default, DEFSTRUCT prefixes the accessor name with the name of the struct, but you should see your postgres interface's documentation on how to check these values. 00:13:57 If it's meant to be accessed, it should have exposed and documented an interface for you to do this. 00:14:03 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 00:14:19 seangrove: what library are you using to connect to postgres? 00:15:45 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7553ca.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:29 -!- tvaalen [~r@terminal.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:21:20 sykopomp: Just pg 00:21:23 from quicklisp 00:21:38 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:22:12 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:12 seangrove: I'm a fan of postmodern. 00:22:29 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:23:00 hmmm, it does look very nice 00:23:09 seangrove: you can use pg-result to get values out of that. 00:23:20 -!- s1ugg0 [~chrish@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:23:27 seangrove: i like pg but postmodern is a bit nicer and has nice documentation 00:24:01 Hmm, I'm hoping to abstract out the underlying implementation, similar to clsql, but not so extreme 00:26:05 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@12.155.80.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:29:13 xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:18 Demosthenes [~demo@204.52.135.237] has joined #lisp 00:36:05 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:39:10 -!- Xecutioner [~adrian@89.137.118.180] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:40:04 mitre__ [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:32 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:44:25 -!- mitre [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:44:32 -!- mitre__ is now known as mitre 00:45:09 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 00:49:32 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 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[Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:50:16 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has quit [Quit: superflit] 01:50:26 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.209.245] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:55:25 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@247-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 01:55:56 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.89.222] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 01:56:48 netytan_ [~netytan@host86-175-234-121.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 01:56:59 -!- netytan_ [~netytan@host86-175-234-121.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:57:05 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:57:34 -!- netytan [~netytan@host86-175-234-121.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:58:24 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-89-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 02:06:21 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-234-37.rice.edu] has quit [Quit: plediii] 02:12:05 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@204.52.135.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:00 whee [~whee@69.207.148.170] has joined #lisp 02:15:10 -!- whee_ [~whee@cpe-69-207-148-170.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:16:13 Dawgmatix [~dman@123.201.201.243] has joined #lisp 02:17:57 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 02:18:34 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 02:19:29 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:12 masonium [~user@col-69-141.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 02:21:03 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 02:21:05 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 02:30:30 oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:15 What's the difference between :thing and 'thing 02:33:32 Both seem like as symbols, they should evaluate to themselves, and those things are equal 02:33:42 But they're not even #'equal 02:34:13 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: goodbye!] 02:34:43 (equal :hello ':hello) => t 02:34:53 at least in SBCL 02:34:58 i'm actually somewhat unsure about this myself 02:35:12 (equal :created_at 'created_at) => NIL 02:35:15 SBCL :) 02:35:19 oh yeah 02:35:20 seangrove: :hello is in the keyword package, which has the curious property that all its symbols evaluate to themselves 02:35:35 yeah that's sort of what i meant 02:35:36 haha 02:35:52 :hello evaluates to :hello, and ':hello evaluates to (quote :hello) which is :hello 02:35:59 which is why they're eq 02:36:33 ok, I think I got it 02:36:44 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.86.112] has joined #lisp 02:38:43 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has left #lisp 02:38:57 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 02:39:54 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has quit [Client Quit] 02:41:17 Also, in my macros whenever I'm splicing in a string and trying to intern it as a symbol, I get symbols coming out like |this| instead of 'THIS. How can I force (intern to make the symbol 'THIS instead of |this| ? 02:41:30 seangrove: make your strings upper-case 02:41:41 interesting 02:42:02 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:16 That did it :) 02:42:54 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.51] has joined #lisp 02:44:17 And how do I make a keyword in a macro? 02:44:37 intern gives me a symbol, and I can't prefix it with : 02:46:26 moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@CMU-416743.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 02:46:58 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:47:46 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.51] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:14 a keyword is just a symbol in the keyword package 02:48:14 (intern "FOO" (find-package "KEYWORD")) 02:49:09 Ah, makes a lot of sense 02:49:25 I always overthink things in lisp 02:49:37 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:49:45 annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:48 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:50:47 DONKEYS_GALORE [~njb@c-66-235-32-232.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:07 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:52 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 03:00:00 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:02:14 clint326 [~clint326@CPE-65-31-132-178.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:03:03 -!- clint326 [~clint326@CPE-65-31-132-178.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:06:57 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-134-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:09:20 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-161-230.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:09:59 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:17:13 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483DC40.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:17:30 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:18:19 -!- annihilator is now known as rff 03:25:50 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:26:02 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:22 udimitri [~udimitri@129-97-228-93.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 03:36:26 -!- powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-4-247.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 03:36:49 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:37:33 netytan [~netytan@host81-141-51-164.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 03:37:57 mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:42 -!- jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:40:58 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vviqrckfetnibevg] has joined #lisp 03:42:09 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:42:19 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:17 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:47:18 dnm [~dnm@li97-254.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:49:28 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 03:52:10 -!- dnm [~dnm@li97-254.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 03:52:28 disturbed32 [c26d1503@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.109.21.3] has joined #lisp 03:53:55 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:59:03 There are a few dozen NoSQL like libraries/frameworks/however you want to call it. First of all, why can't people just write one solution to rule them all ignoring which particular subset of ACID they support and second of all, is there a comparison between all of them on a meaningful workload and preferably also a comparison with e.g. Oracle. 04:00:11 What does that have to do with Lisp? 04:01:32 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:34 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-89-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 04:01:46 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:01:50 austinh: it is programming language independent. 04:02:07 This channel isn't. 04:02:22 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:02:42 austinh: are you seriously suggesting that all you talk about in this channel is Lisp semantics? 04:03:12 I am suggesting that off-topic topics are off-topic. 04:03:14 disturbed32: your question is better answered by google 04:03:52 adeht: I used Google, but it didn't satisfy me. 04:04:10 Benchmarks are there to be gamed, etc. 04:04:10 I suggest mailing webmaster@google.com 04:04:26 Most people that talk about this stuff have no idea. 04:05:47 Unless it is written by someone with 5+ years experience who extensively tested and analyzed all of the systems with a degree from e.g. Stanford there is no point to read it. 04:05:51 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.86.112] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:19 lemoinem [~swoog@206-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:38 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:10:47 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:32 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:12:50 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 04:13:23 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@123.201.201.243] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:15:43 janos__ [~janos@S01060014bff3e1ab.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:27 hm little q, anyone here using quicklisp 04:16:47 yes, lots of people, probably 04:17:35 ok what would you make of this 04:17:43 when you do say (ql:quickload "lispbuilder-sdl") 04:17:58 I think there is also #quicklisp. 04:18:03 and get "not an absolute pathname #P"C:"" in clisp 04:18:08 granted :p 04:18:52 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.108.147] has joined #lisp 04:19:49 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:32 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@247-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:20:42 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:43 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:04 pdk: definitely ask in #quicklisp. When Xach is there (may be late for him now) he'll be glad to hear bug reports. You can also file a bug report at https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues 04:22:11 hm 04:23:02 I could easily believe that CLISP on Windows is a less-tested platform. 04:23:18 Maybe try googling or checking the logs, too, because I feel like quicklisp+lispbuilder-sdl questions have come up a bunch recently. 04:23:22 Can you load other libraries. e.g. (ql:quickload "alexandria") 04:23:58 that worked 04:24:11 clhs subseq 04:24:16 hm now it's chuggin along 04:24:22 minion: where are you? 04:25:10 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: off to lose my soul to playing electrionic games.] 04:25:54 What should (subseq seq 100 10) do? 04:27:59 Good morning everyone! 04:28:28 Oh, that's kind of answered in the subseq-out-of-bounds writeup. But writeups aren't part of the spec are they? 04:35:50 rtoym: no, they are not. 04:36:39 Ok. But I think (subseq seq 100 10) should signal an error. 04:36:52 Though I think it's an error on the caller's part becauce start and end are specified to be "bounding index designators" 04:36:53 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 04:37:29 which implies, per the glossary entry for "bounding index" that start <= end 04:37:53 Agreed. 04:38:32 Is the glossary normative? 04:39:01 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-51-164.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: netytan] 04:41:16 Good question. I don't know. 04:41:18 The glossary is normative, yes. 04:43:11 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:03 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@206-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:45:13 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 04:45:29 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.40] has joined #lisp 04:47:54 -!- az [~az@p5796C16B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:51:48 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:55:20 az [~az@p4FE4FE2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:47 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has joined #lisp 05:03:55 -!- pdk [~realname@c-67-163-243-242.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:03:55 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:10 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:05:47 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has quit [Client Quit] 05:06:07 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[~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 05:30:34 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 05:32:50 -!- illuminati11_13 [~illuminat@pool-71-114-7-169.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:34:26 evening 05:34:45 schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-196-92.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:34:45 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-196-92.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 05:34:45 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 05:34:48 -!- TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:36 -!- udimitri [~udimitri@129-97-228-93.uwaterloo.ca] has left #lisp 05:44:59 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81CFD1.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: be vigilant] 05:48:25 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:51:08 Hello slyrus 05:51:23 -!- somnium [~user@184.42.17.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51:43 somnium [~user@184.42.17.189] has joined #lisp 05:59:52 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[~milan@port-92-204-38-85.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:04:50 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:06:07 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 08:11:50 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.96.163.56] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:13:25 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:13:39 Lochy [~lochy@59.96.161.152] has joined #lisp 08:14:06 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:16:12 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 08:18:30 -!- kae_ [~dsa@ext02.gsp.se] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:18:37 kae [~dsa@ext02.gsp.se] has joined #lisp 08:19:58 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:31 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.96.161.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:21:44 What's your experience with SWIG? 08:22:27 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.69] has joined #lisp 08:23:43 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@150.254.82.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:26:19 horze [~kim@c-0b1072d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:29:08 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:31:20 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.53] has joined #lisp 08:32:33 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:33:21 tfb [~tfb@92.41.214.193.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:34:11 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:35:22 aSean [~aSean@134-208-39-197.ndhu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 08:49:54 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vviqrckfetnibevg] has left #lisp 08:50:24 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:39 SWIG 08:50:56 wvdschel [~wim@vpnk110.ugent.be] has joined #lisp 08:50:56 -!- wvdschel [~wim@vpnk110.ugent.be] has quit [Changing host] 08:50:56 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 08:51:22 -!- trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has left #lisp 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[~tg@dslc-082-082-115-169.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:42 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-89-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:12:53 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has joined #lisp 09:13:55 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:13:55 lhz [~user@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 09:16:49 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:18:32 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:19:25 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-89-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 09:20:53 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-153-52.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:20:56 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:21:47 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 09:26:02 -!- neuro_sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:27:57 any interesting lisp mailing lists to subscribe to? 09:28:36 leo2007: Configure your newsreader with gmane, and read them from there. http://gmane.org/ 09:29:24 pjb: I have been using gmane for a few years ;) I'm browsing http://dir.gmane.org/index.php?prefix=gmane.lisp 09:30:12 incandenza_ [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:24 adampkb [~adam@14.247.241.83.in-addr.dgcsystems.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:38 stassats: Have you sent a mail already? 09:33:53 no 09:34:17 i almost forgot about, will send now 09:34:22 stassats: send it do editor-hints, and please include a test case that fails on allegro 8.2 09:34:35 kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:34:47 I hope I will find motivation to prepare a new release during christmas 09:35:04 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:35:15 (which will also include Xach's idea of adding an initialization function to defreadable) 09:35:33 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:36:44 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:37:28 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:38:05 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xfndatclaqdfjxgi] has joined #lisp 09:38:05 new release? slime? 09:38:19 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.100.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:38:33 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:38:39 I don't see myself responsible for slime 09:38:47 Lochy [~lochy@59.96.162.44] has joined #lisp 09:38:52 sorry ;) 09:38:52 -!- moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@CMU-416743.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:42 <_3b> do :after methods get called when the main method exits by an error or other non-local exit? 09:45:32 I don't think so 09:45:41 tcr: should there really be a specific test-case for find-readtable? because there are already 7 test-cases in the test-suite which fail because of it 09:46:08 stassats: Oh ok, I thought the test suite runs through 09:47:05 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:47:30 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:41 *_3b* wonders if an unwind-protect in an :around method would put things in the right place or not, or if cl-glut could be rearranged to make this sort of thing less confusing 09:47:47 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:50:51 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ekpelzracrxhjgiu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:51:07 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ygaplgjdjhlgizok] has joined #lisp 09:51:49 <_3b> i guess not, given the option to not run the main loop automatically :( 09:52:13 Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has joined #lisp 09:54:49 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:55:21 lisp mailing lists I have subscribed to: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/302647 09:55:53 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:57:13 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:57:39 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.205.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:58:09 cmm [~cmm@109.67.205.172] has joined #lisp 09:59:08 Dawgmatix [~dman@123.201.201.243] has joined #lisp 10:01:19 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:01:46 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-181-8.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:29 carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.248] has joined #lisp 10:02:32 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-185-84.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:02:35 Uhm, wait you cannot provide multiple :depends-on in a defsystem? 10:03:01 It does not barf syntactically but it seems only to process the first one given 10:03:11 tcr: would darcs send be a good way to send the patches? 10:03:21 i'm quite confused by it 10:03:36 stassats: Just inline the patch, I'm going to apply the changes manually anyway 10:03:44 -!- adampkb [~adam@14.247.241.83.in-addr.dgcsystems.net] has quit [Quit: Lämnar] 10:03:50 -!- lhz [~user@88.131.67.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:07:16 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ubfluudwhmlmipaa] has joined #lisp 10:07:16 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ubfluudwhmlmipaa] has quit [Changing host] 10:07:16 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 10:10:30 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.96.162.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:11:59 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.98.198] has joined #lisp 10:12:17 Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.17] has joined #lisp 10:15:15 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@203.213.202.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:15:54 G'day everyone! 10:17:14 thanks stassats 10:17:48 ebzzry [~ebzzry@203.213.202.186] has joined #lisp 10:19:24 jobf [~user@sto-110.net.informator.se] has joined #lisp 10:21:08 What's the best cffi type for struct foo **f ? 10:22:12 <_3b> :pointer ? or (:pointer (:pointer foo)) if you want to be verbose? 10:23:26 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.98.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:23:51 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.95] has joined #lisp 10:24:08 -!- jobf [~user@sto-110.net.informator.se] has left #lisp 10:24:12 jobf [~user@sto-110.net.informator.se] has joined #lisp 10:24:43 hej _3b, do you have experience with swig? 10:24:56 how does cl-opengl do the binding stuff? 10:25:04 <_3b> i think i tried it a few years ago, but not since 10:25:37 <_3b> cl-opengl generates from some definition files provided with the spec rather than from headers 10:26:33 <_3b> other bindings i've done used verazzano to start with, then hand-editing to clean up the output of that 10:27:38 <_3b> *verrazano 10:30:38 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:35:39 hi people 10:36:02 is it possible to create standalone binary programs with sbcl? Tx 10:37:29 Posterdati: It used to be (save-lisp-and-die :executable t) or something like that. 10:37:31 <_3b> Posterdati: http://www.cliki.net/creating%20executables 10:37:43 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:37:53 Posterdati: But they are not standalone in that they need things like libc and the operating system. 10:37:56 spiaggia, _3b: tx 10:38:07 spiaggia: of course 10:38:31 spiaggia: I'm interested in embedded computing, so a binary program make sense :) 10:38:54 spiaggia: I'm interested in Lisp machines 10:38:56 <_3b> note that sbcl make very large standalone binaries though 10:39:09 ok 10:39:17 marijnjh [~user@p5DDB3AEA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:40 <_3b> you might also want to look at movitz and sbcl-os then 10:40:07 good 10:40:47 <_3b> (expect to need to do a lot of work to do anything with either of those though) 10:42:36 tcr: I've found swig ok when generating from header files for cffi 10:43:11 Does need a little cleaning up though like _3b mentioned 10:43:48 _3b: I'm reading about sbcl-os, interesting 10:44:21 _3b: but it's a x86 project :) 10:48:06 How can I read in a file containing lists of strings: ("" "dgfs") ("" "ngfs") ("" "dgns") 10:48:31 open it, and repeatedly call read until end-of-file is signalled 10:49:01 you might have to specify an external-format when opening, if it's non-ascii 10:49:11 (depending on your implementation and your system locale) 10:49:51 marijnjh, I'll try that. Thanks. 10:51:57 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:41 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:55:05 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.48] has joined #lisp 11:00:52 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-153-52.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01:14 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:01:55 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:02:45 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:04:00 -!- jobf [~user@sto-110.net.informator.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:04:07 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04:15 schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-196-92.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:04:21 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-196-92.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 11:04:21 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 11:04:30 freddie111 [~user@150.140.233.75] has joined #lisp 11:04:37 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:10:24 dfox_ [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:12:45 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:15:14 jobf [~user@sto-110.net.informator.se] has joined #lisp 11:15:25 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:15:47 tcr: yay 11:16:27 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xfndatclaqdfjxgi] has left #lisp 11:29:04 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-134-166.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:30:14 tcr: what do you need swig for ? 11:32:04 Create cffi definitions from header files 11:34:31 which headers ? 11:34:49 self-written ones 11:34:59 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-134-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:36:43 hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:36:50 I am just wondering if it would obviate me from having to maintain consistency between my own header files and the corresponding cffi definitions 11:38:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:39:05 tcr: you'd just need to maintain the swig files then make it so that swig generates them at proper time 11:39:22 afaik lispbuilder code relies heavily on swig? 11:40:59 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:42:32 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:43:34 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.106.200] has joined #lisp 11:46:09 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 11:49:09 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 11:55:24 -!- freddie111 [~user@150.140.233.75] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:56:44 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:56:49 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 12:00:54 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:03:55 would you go for GTK or Qt for doing cross-platform GUI apps? 12:06:25 <_8david> I think both are reasonably good choices. 12:07:33 <_8david> Of course, it depends a lot on whether you expect users to be picky about the app having a native look and feel. In that case, you'll have to do some work to make it look native in any case. (Or switch to a toolkit that is really native, and not portable.) 12:12:31 Qt seems to look better, more native-looking, on Windows and Mac, doesn't it? 12:15:57 <_8david> ICBW, but I was under the impression that GTK+/MacOS is also better these days than it used to be. 12:15:59 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:17:56 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:18:26 <_8david> in my view, Qt certainly looks really good with the Vista-only native theme. For older windows I found that had to tweak the theme selection to use a non-native theme instead. 12:18:28 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:30 <_8david> In any case, it's quite cool that so many choices are available for Lisp today. If you also count CCL with cocotron, there are three major portable GUI binding options now. 12:20:47 but cocotron doesn't work yet on linux, or does it? 12:23:06 <_8david> don't know. FSVO"portable", I guess. 12:23:47 How do I invoke the garbage collector of SBCL manually? 12:24:12 sb-ext:gc 12:24:22 doesnt seem to work 12:24:32 how do you expect it to work? 12:24:56 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:24:59 and why do you need it at all? 12:25:25 I have read in a large file to a global array, set it afterwards to nil and read in the file again, but now the heap is exhausted 12:25:40 even if i run sb-ext:gc after setting it to nil 12:26:02 cmm- [~cmm@109.65.202.226] has joined #lisp 12:26:16 did you pass :full t to sb-ext:gc? 12:26:27 nope, will try that 12:26:32 you could maybe use a fill pointer and reuse the same array 12:26:54 Guthur: you don't need a fill pointer for that 12:27:09 stassats: that works, i feel dumb - thanks! 12:27:18 well if the size was going to change i thought that might be better approach 12:28:01 anyway... I need to go 12:28:06 -!- Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:28:09 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.205.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:28:25 fill pointer is conceptually a great thing, but i never use it because the array becomes non-simple 12:29:12 so i'd use a simple array and an integer with size 12:30:36 yeah, i use make-array (file-length stream) ... 12:31:03 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:10 _8david, mostly concerned about support by CL libs in both X and Windows. 12:32:14 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.106.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:32:48 SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:05 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.106.151] has joined #lisp 12:33:54 <_8david> I haven't actually used cl-gtk2, but I recommend it anyway. (It's by Dmitry, so it must be good!) 12:34:30 who's Dmitry ? 12:34:46 I looked at cl-gtk2. The page said Windows support was not yet done. 12:34:54 another page said there was support. 12:38:53 kanru [~kanru@218-161-121-189.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:29 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:40:29 churib: did sb-ext:gc :full work because it really was supposed to or because none of *, ** and *** pointed to any of the old arrays anymore? 12:40:54 churib: that is, was it gc alone that solved it or was there interaction with the repl? 12:42:49 pmd: * ** ... were never bound to the array, it was sb-ext:gc :full t alone 12:44:39 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 12:45:16 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 12:46:26 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.17] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:47:19 Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.17] has joined #lisp 12:49:22 jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:49:42 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 12:49:55 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:11 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:52:41 -!- somnium [~user@184.42.17.189] has left #lisp 12:52:54 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:58:08 -!- Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:00:49 sellout [~greg@64.134.240.185] has joined #lisp 13:03:08 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:10 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.106.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:05:47 -!- jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:56 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Quit: bye] 13:05:57 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:29 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.99.56] has joined #lisp 13:07:36 tic: "not yet done" != "doesn't exist" 13:08:24 point 13:09:01 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:03 that depends on what you mean by "exist" 13:09:07 Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:10:05 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:11:22 Kruno [dced8607@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.237.134.7] has joined #lisp 13:11:31 Hello guys. 13:11:39 hi 13:11:57 Want to steal some information if you guys don't mind. 13:12:53 that depends on what kind of information you're planning to steal 13:12:58 Converting arrays to lists. I know I can do this (map 'array '#* '(1 2 3 4 etc...)) and get an array, or I can use an empty lambda, but both methods are dodgey. Any suggestions? 13:13:18 (coerce list 'vector) 13:14:10 and "an empty lambda" would be #'identity 13:14:35 Thank you. I always learn something new here. :) 13:15:03 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:13 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.150.116] has joined #lisp 13:17:54 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.106.236] has joined #lisp 13:21:04 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:05 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:23:55 charliekilo [~charlieki@pool-96-236-149-254.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:05 -!- guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:26:09 guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 13:26:10 _8david: does cocotron finally allow for developing without a mac? 13:26:21 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.106.236] has left #lisp 13:31:45 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.220] has joined #lisp 13:32:51 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-120.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:33:32 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:33:36 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:43 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743]] 13:38:16 -!- jobf [~user@sto-110.net.informator.se] has left #lisp 13:39:22 lemoinem [~swoog@194-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:52 btw, anyone tried out RESTAS? seems like quite an interesting framework that *finally* got some english documentation... 13:41:01 I was going to, but it's too hard to install. Ha ha, just kidding! 13:43:59 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.99.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:44:06 nah, too hard to install is core-server :P 13:45:51 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.48] has joined #lisp 13:47:58 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:56 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:50:57 SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:11 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.184.8] has joined #lisp 13:51:38 Strong opinions about the Lisp programming language, weakly held <--- ... that's a very... weird requirement in a job ad 13:52:41 p_l|backup 13:52:48 xinming [~hyy@122.238.78.87] has joined #lisp 13:52:58 p_l|backup: Whoops. Sorry. Where on earth is this ad? :P 13:55:03 StackOverflow (the company itself) 13:55:28 http://http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/7000/stack-overflow-developer-stack-overflow 14:00:34 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 14:01:50 lol 14:02:30 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:55 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 14:05:41 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.240.185] has quit [Quit: sellout] 14:06:27 powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-4-247.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:45 does anyone have a good quality copy of The Mother Of All Demos? 14:06:51 i can't seem to find a watchable verison 14:07:34 Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:07:36 bah, what about sutherland's demo? 14:08:05 i want to make a dvd of this. 14:08:33 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:17 <_3b> http://sloan.stanford.edu/mousesite/1968Demo.html ? 14:09:23 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:10:28 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:47 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:47 I'm not sure if there is anything one could call "good quality copy" of TMoAD 14:15:00 though I recall finding something that could be watched with understanding 14:15:33 _3b: i can't seem to download this 14:15:46 isn't the video downloadable? or only somje flash thing? 14:15:47 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 14:16:01 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:16:39 <_3b> http://www.dougengelbart.org/firsts/dougs-1968-demo.html mas more links, didn't look closely though 14:17:30 joeygibson [~joeygibso@208.52.139.50] has joined #lisp 14:17:42 ah.... internet archive has it!!!! thanks _3b 14:17:47 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:18:05 Is trivial-usocket not part of usocket anymore? 14:18:16 was it ever included in the usocket lib? 14:19:05 i don't recall it being included 14:19:45 hmm it is mentioned on the cliki page. Do you know where I can get it from? 14:20:55 quicklisp! 14:20:56 from usocket's svn 14:21:19 svn://common-lisp.net/project/usocket/svn/trivial-usocket/trunk 14:21:20 quicklisp does not have trivial-usocket. i've never heard of it. 14:21:54 -!- prokos [~prokos@173.200.233.195] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 14:21:56 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:22:01 Xach: send mail to the quicklisp's maintainer! 14:22:04 sellout [~greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:08 Xach: i've rolled Proton and my game engine, plus some new UI stuff, into a single project called iosketch' 14:22:23 Xach: and will be making a beta release in the next month or so 14:22:38 dto: cool 14:22:49 some reorganizational pain, but it's worth it :) 14:23:02 jdz: that jerk never adds my projects. 14:23:10 hehe 14:23:35 Xach: fork the project and ignore him! 14:23:44 wvdschel_ [~wim@157.193.206.16] has joined #lisp 14:23:49 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:23:56 -!- incandenza_ [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 14:24:10 -!- Kruno [dced8607@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.237.134.7] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:24:21 Xach: what are the requirements/standard/tasks i should be keeping in mind as i polish this up for a first ql release? 14:24:45 -!- joeygibson [~joeygibso@208.52.139.50] has left #lisp 14:25:03 pdk [~realname@c-67-163-243-242.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:13 sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.88.193] has joined #lisp 14:26:23 dto: It's easiest for me if the project can be loaded with asdf. 14:26:29 dto: http://blog.quicklisp.org/2010/11/devils-guide-to-quicklisp-projects.html 14:26:33 oh cool. thanks. 14:26:34 There was an a.. nevermind 14:26:50 well yes, after ql:quickloading all my prerequisites, i still load with (require :iosketch) 14:27:06 Those are things that make my task harder. It's not a list of things where, if you do the opposite, it's good. 14:28:31 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:28:32 okay. the only thing i see is that i checked some redistributable windows dlls into a subfolder of my repo. but you could just exclude that one folder, right? 14:28:43 I can...what? 14:28:55 I don't do anything like that for projects. 14:29:43 it's ok, i can just remove them and hide them somewhere else. 14:30:02 Why would you want to distribute windows dlls anyway? 14:30:04 I'd like to figure out what to do for foreign libraries, but I haven't figured it out yet. 14:30:14 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:30:22 drdo: i need to on windows so that it will run. 14:30:31 drdo: SDL stuff. 14:30:46 incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:51 dto: Just put it on the README like everyone else 14:30:54 Xach: i include a few MB of redistributable font files 14:31:11 drdo: I don't think that's a great policy. 14:31:19 drdo: that would be extremely annoying because finding the RIGHT dlls was nontriviaql 14:31:43 dto: What exactly does it depend on? 14:31:43 nobody would ever play any of my games on windows if it popped up saying "find and install SDL first" 14:31:46 dto: I'd like to start a quicklisp-font project. What kind of fonts are they? 14:32:03 Xach: they're the DejaVu free font family, the standard font family for iosketch now. 14:32:21 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@194-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:32:24 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:24 drdo: sdl, sdl-mixer, sdl-gfx, sdl-ttf, .... 14:32:26 dto: When i need to do that sort of thing, i just package it up with everything 14:32:28 dto: Would you consider making the fonts a separate project that can be depended-on by others? 14:32:36 drdo: that's why i have everything in the repo. 14:32:39 Xach: sure. 14:32:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:33:08 except, how do you find out where the TTF files are just from loading the system? i'm not sure how to actually depend on the fonts. 14:33:36 dto: asdf:system-relative-pathname 14:33:38 dto: Well, i don't think there's a good reason for that, people that are going to play the game and don't know about that sort of thing, aren't going to be pulling from repos anyway 14:34:21 i want everything in the repo required to build/run iosketch on any platform. 14:34:50 So you include sbcl as well? 14:35:35 drdo: and an os 14:35:56 dto: Ignore the philistines and let us chat of this on #quicklisp. 14:35:57 -!- wvdschel_ [~wim@157.193.206.16] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:57 and a computer? :) 14:36:00 drdo: but sbcl is quite easy to find and install, the libs are more difficult 14:36:37 sepi: on windows and mac, I do in fact ship sbcl with the games, since people are not likely to know what it is or how to download it. 14:36:44 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 14:36:54 Yes, that's fine 14:37:07 But that's a end user distribution packaged up 14:37:24 i dont get it: (coerce (1- (expt 2 32)) '(signed-byte 32)) cannot be converted 14:38:11 churib: that's not a 32 bit signed integer. 14:38:43 You'd need 33 bits to represent (1- (expt 2 32)) as a signed integer. 14:38:47 It's double of what fits in a 32bit signed integer 14:38:54 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743]] 14:39:03 i want the bit-representation to be converted 14:39:15 churib: Do you mean unsigned perhaps? 14:39:22 nope :) 14:39:36 churib: that's not what coerce does. 14:39:44 how can i do that? 14:39:49 You can't 14:39:50 churib: did you get some bits out of a file and you want to treat them as signed? 14:39:59 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:40:01 yes 14:40:22 churib: you'll have to think a bit about what sign extension actually means: take the sign bit and replicate it ad infinitum. 14:40:48 churib: test the high bit, then (dpb raw-value (byte 32 0) -1) 14:41:23 One way to do that is to (logior (- (logand x (ash 1 sign-position))) x) 14:42:04 Xach and pkhuong: sounds good, i read about ldb but this seems more easy 14:42:18 thanks for help, i will try that! 14:42:25 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw501177.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:43:35 incandenza_ [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:54 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw501177.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:18 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:45:02 -!- kanru [~kanru@218-161-121-189.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:47:26 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 14:48:31 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:48:51 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:50:12 Does anyone here familiar with 'lispbuilder-sdl'? How would I move a surface some pixels relative to itself, and not absolute, like '(sdl:set-position-* foo :x x :y y)'? 14:50:57 didi: I'm not sure with sdl specifically, but sometimes the answer to questions like that is "do some arithmetic" 14:52:21 Xach: That's what I was thinking, but I got hopes that there could be another way. The next question then would be: "How can I get the present position of a surface"? 14:52:57 Maybe just '(getf...)'. 14:53:00 Hum. 14:53:22 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1F56.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:57:20 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:58:17 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:06 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 15:01:38 muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:43 -!- bigjust_ [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 15:04:00 bigjust_ [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has joined #lisp 15:04:15 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: *puff*] 15:04:29 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.84.198.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:07:24 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.214.193.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:11:46 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:13:30 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-135-44.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:15:19 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.88.193] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:15:30 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:09 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-134-166.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:16:14 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:17:23 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:21 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-135-44.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:24:02 Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.176.5] has joined #lisp 15:24:42 Ok, who wants to see the end-of-2010 edition of the SBCL cvs activity chart? 15:25:11 i do! 15:25:32 sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.88.193] has joined #lisp 15:25:54 http://xach.com/charts/sbcl2010/ 15:26:38 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:27:07 Xach: Cool :) 15:27:31 "lisphacker" is nyef, i believe. 15:28:10 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:28:18 Xach: I notice that to switch months for a user, I have to mouse over a different user, then go back to the new month of the first user. 15:28:42 ouch. that sucks. 15:29:03 *Xach* is going to release that code possibly tonight, so anyone can make this kind of chart, and maybe fix that bug :) 15:29:13 Xach: Seems weird, because they must all be separate areas in the map, right? 15:29:31 sellout: you'd think. i do some javascript, though, so maybe it's buggy. 15:29:50 Ah, right  like just checks the name part of the area title. 15:30:16 *shrug* nothing obvious. Anyway, still cool. 15:31:28 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 15:31:29 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 15:33:52 *Xach* ponders a similar ccl visualization 15:34:23 Can anyone tell me how to find out what command line arguments ABCL accepts? Looking to test some libraries.... 15:34:59 rpg: well, given the fact that it misses a --help argument, reading the code works. 15:35:05 or I can enumerate them for you. 15:35:17 --batch 15:35:19 ehu: Is there a "--load"? 15:35:19 --eval 15:35:23 --load 15:35:24 yup. 15:35:27 Yay! 15:35:48 -!- powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-4-247.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 15:35:49 there's also --noinit 15:36:14 when will it grow itself a --help? 15:36:40 stassats: soon, probably, now that this has come up twice in 2 weeks. 15:36:47 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:36:48 the perils of popularity. 15:37:30 well, if this is the price, I'll gladly pay it. 15:40:33 Blkt [~user@93-33-134-100.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:41:11 good day everyone 15:41:18 Hello Blkt 15:41:22 hi 15:41:33 hi there 15:41:57 billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.95] has joined #lisp 15:42:16 hi Blkt 15:42:42 hi fe[nl]ix 15:43:10 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 15:46:42 phaer [~user@static.72.102.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 15:47:43 s1ugg0 [~chrish@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-96.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:50:16 ehu: the documentation page might be also a good place to put a list of the cl options... 15:52:07 Bronsa [~bronsa@host20-10-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:54:11 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has joined #lisp 15:54:12 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.150.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:58:12 so why is abcl gaining in popularity? 15:58:53 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:35 sepi: a rising tide lifts all boats, and cl is the hottest programming language on earth righ tnow. 16:00:09 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:16 sizzlin' 16:00:25 Xach: Good to hear! What source do you have for that? 16:00:34 wasn't haskell the hottest lang around right now? 16:00:53 beach: I'm basing that guess on the level of activity in #lisp 16:01:08 Maybe I should revise that to "the hottest programming language in #lisp" 16:01:08 I see. 16:01:18 hehe 16:01:22 Xach: I think that would be wiser, yes. 16:01:56 kanru [~kanru@118-168-234-157.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:41 I recently heard the talk on cl history by peter seibel and I was somehow inspired to create a centralized documentation for libs in quicklisp 16:02:53 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-135-44.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:03:04 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 16:04:10 we could make somthing like batteries for ocaml 16:05:13 -!- lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:06:40 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 16:06:55 -!- ignas [~ignas@88-222-145-120.meganet.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:07:12 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:07:37 sepi: that would be neat. 16:08:20 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 16:09:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:11:30 -!- gnooth_ is now known as gnooth 16:14:34 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:16:12 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 16:16:33 -!- charliekilo [~charlieki@pool-96-236-149-254.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:07 Xach: looks like my Amazon graph making days may be winding down. Amazon is now providing the graphs to authors (along with Nielsen BookScan data). 16:19:18 bah, Let over Lambda is horrifying in places, but also quite delightful in places. and some of those places overlap 16:20:12 gigamonkey: nice. 16:20:31 *cmm-* wonders if he should buy the book for the remaining chapters or have mercy on both his sanity and wallet 16:20:47 dont spare the wallet 16:21:04 easy for you to say! 16:21:24 sepi: I'd like to think that it gains popularity because it gains usability 16:21:58 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:14 In the past 4 weeks New York and the SF Bay Area are tied for most PCL purchases according to BookScan, with 3 each. 16:23:49 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 16:24:06 gigamonkey: You'll be rich one day! 16:25:56 cmm-: I found Let Over Lambda to be a really entertaining read 16:27:57 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Client Quit] 16:27:58 gigamonkey, what's your fav. LISP tome for starters? 16:28:10 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 16:28:25 sabalaba: Isn't that a strange question? 16:28:28 sabalaba: He might be biased ;) 16:28:37 Hehe 16:28:58 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Client Quit] 16:29:11 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 16:29:26 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 16:29:26 dlowe: yes, but which kind of entertaining? 16:30:32 sabalaba: well, if you don't like PCL I enjoyed reading CLTL2 cover to cover. ;-) 16:30:40 I must be really silly for asking this but I spent already 15 min trying to figure it out (becoming sluggish): (loop for i in '("1" "2" "3" "4" "5" "6") by #'cddr collect i); but what I want is '("2" "4" "6")! 16:30:52 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fygzrffbvocaleeb] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:31:17 beach, if you wanted to start learning lisp and you could buy one book what would you buy 16:31:19 francogrex: use on instead of in 16:31:21 (loop for (a b) on (list 1 2 3 4 5 6) by #'cddr collect b) 16:31:37 sabalaba: I don't know. I already know Lisp. 16:31:47 sabalaba: PCL 16:31:53 sabalaba: You already know programming? 16:32:00 sabalaba: PCL 16:32:01 gigamonkey: Thank you. (relaxed) 16:32:02 sellout, yes 16:32:16 minion: tell sabalaba about that-dead-sexy-book 16:32:28 oh, not here 16:32:46 sabalaba: Anyway, yeah, Practical Common Lisp. 16:32:49 http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ is it 16:33:10 francogrex: Or: (loop for i in (cdr '("1" ... "6")) by #'cddr collect i) 16:33:46 I hear the new Land of Lisp book is also worthwhile, but I haven't read it yet. 16:34:18 beach: also works. thanks 16:34:19 *gigamonkey* shudders for the coming confusion between Land of Lisp and Let over Lambda 16:34:31 *gigamonkey* is eagerly awaiting a review copy of Land of Lisp. 16:34:33 gigamonkey: it's already here. 16:34:40 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 16:34:42 Xach: but will only get worse. 16:35:07 Land of Lisp is LoL, Let Over Lambda is LOL (there are zero-width nonbreaking spaces around the O) 16:35:31 Maybe we can call Let Over Lambda L/L 16:35:37 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:35:47 gigamonkey: that can be (nil b) 16:35:49 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 16:36:03 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.139.200] has joined #lisp 16:36:07 stassats: probably. Or beach's solution. 16:36:11 Or L/ if you have the keyboard for it. 16:36:11 Maybe we can just write the full name, it's not that big :P 16:36:32 lol 16:36:46 sepi: sorry, this is #lisp, we have a case-smashing reader 16:36:51 or (let () (lambda ())) 16:37:03 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:37:11 Or "The Weird Book" vs "The Comic Book" 16:37:33 why not (/ let lambda) 16:37:53 that just might be crazy enough... 16:37:54 to work 16:38:24 LovL VS LofL? 16:38:39 Is L/L worth reading anyway? 16:39:20 the free part trivially is 16:40:36 Time is valuable too. 16:41:34 -!- phaer [~user@static.72.102.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:55 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: back to work] 16:42:20 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-101-231.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:42:40 some reviews i saw said it was kinda pointless after already reading on lisp 16:42:48 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@137-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 16:43:05 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.10/20101028123456]] 16:43:18 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-168-129.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:44:07 -!- masonium [~user@col-69-141.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:32 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:41 luis: my impression, not based on actually reading the whole thing, is that it might be okay for someone who knows enough to know when the author is saying crazy stuff. 16:45:21 if there are any clbuild committers present, i found some breakage in clbuild/projects due to cffi moving from darcs to git. doing s#cffi get_darcs http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/darcs/cffi#cffi get_git git://common-lisp.net/projects/cffi/cffi.git# seems to have taken care of it. 16:45:48 jlf: clbuild2 has the right link. You should probably be using that instead. 16:45:56 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-135-44.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:18 jlf: it's integrated with quicklisp! :-) 16:47:05 luis: i'll look into those, thanks 16:48:22 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-142-198-238.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:50:52 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.88.193] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:51:06 sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.88.193] has joined #lisp 16:51:21 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-135-44.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:52:46 Xach: do you plan to support additional meta info for packages like a category or documentation url in quicklisp? 16:54:23 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:55:30 sepi: Yes. 16:55:30 -!- mdh [~user@cpe-98-155-87-40.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:14 Xach: cool 16:57:09 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:59:02 kaemo [~mad5ci@150.254.82.222] has joined #lisp 16:59:39 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:49 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:59:53 futuremint [~dave@99-190-205-150.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:10 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host20-10-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:02:27 benny` [~benny@i577A3937.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:03:23 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@123.201.201.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:05:04 -!- benny` is now known as benny 17:05:13 mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:38 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-168-234-157.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:07:07 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757a2f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:45 tvaalen [~r@unaffiliated/tvaal] has joined #lisp 17:11:07 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:11:40 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:39 yay. 36 hours my mp4/iso file reading code is working-ish. 17:17:01 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:17:06 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 17:17:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:18:45 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050066075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:18:54 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:19:06 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:20:06 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:24 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@137-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:20:40 -!- pdk [~realname@c-67-163-243-242.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:23:30 good morning 17:23:38 morning antifuchs 17:26:20 Bronsa [~bronsa@host20-10-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:26:28 hey antifuchs! 17:26:48 slyrus: Congratulations! 17:28:14 thanks beach 17:29:23 I should provide the caveat that working is a fairly low bar here... but at least I can parse the files and have the general machinery such that I can retrieve the bits I want and easily extend it to grab more. It's not like I have a mcclim a/v player :( 17:29:55 still, it's a good start. 17:30:20 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@150.254.82.222] has quit [Quit: *puff*] 17:31:09 perhaps gigamonkey will see fit to bundle it up with his mp3 reading code and we can start a generic media reading library 17:31:30 -!- sellout [~greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:32:18 slyrus: did you use my binary parsing library? 17:32:32 no :( 17:32:40 I should retrofit that on though 17:32:56 It'd be an interesting exercise. And make me more likely to bundle it ;-) 17:33:29 gigamonkey: FYI, I just moved; unpacked my PCL book, forgot how fun CL was... now I'm rewriting stuff at work in SBCL. 17:33:34 gigamonkey: so, thanks! :) 17:33:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-96.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:35:05 guidj0s [~gdjs@187.39.191.205] has joined #lisp 17:36:17 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 17:36:54 I am reading SICP, and using the MIT/GNU Scheme engine binary to experiment with the language. How can I input newlines to the console without making the interpreter evaluate my expression? 17:37:54 You might want to try #scheme, this channel is specifically about Common Lisp 17:37:54 guidj0s: #lisp is mostly about Common Lisp. You might want to try #scheme. 17:38:10 beach: You are creepy! 17:38:15 thanks guys. 17:38:19 drdo: You too! :) 17:38:31 -!- guidj0s [~gdjs@187.39.191.205] has left #lisp 17:39:33 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:40:19 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.176.5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:32 futuremint: Cool. Have fun! 17:48:03 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ygaplgjdjhlgizok] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:50:31 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:55:48 limetree [~hi@c-0be9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:58:00 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050066075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:00:59 anyone here going to 27c3? 18:01:26 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02:14 Is that like 6.02e23? 18:02:26 Bc3+! 18:02:33 it's the chaos computer club's congress in berlin (: 18:03:10 gigamonkey: how about a draw? 18:04:30 replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:44 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:07:18 gigamonkey: thnx, I will! So far its been far less frustrating than the Pharo Smalltalk system its replacing. I'm fed up with "everything being an object (with a class!)" :) 18:07:23 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:50 futuremint: sadly, everything in Common Lisp is an object with a class. But don't let it get you down. ;-) 18:08:36 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 18:09:17 -!- gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:09:34 gigamonkey: I know (found that out learning CLOS), but macros + little functions are far more streamlined IMHO than having to go find a package, define a new class, define a new method and put it in a method protocol just to do something. 18:09:56 gigamonkey: Ok, I got it, its the fusing of the logic with the data that bothers me. Thats what I meant :) 18:09:59 Yup. 18:10:22 zhulikas [zhulikas@3e6b7b31.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:10:52 compmstr_ [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:11 gigamonkey: Same goes (a little less, but still mostly) for Ruby too. Ok, I'm done ranting now, back to work... 18:13:58 Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.176.5] has joined #lisp 18:15:15 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:16:37 gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:17 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:20:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.90.2] 18:21:16 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:21:22 could you offer some IDE with GUI for a beginner? 18:21:33 Slime 18:21:54 i offer it for everyone 18:22:24 well its a plugin for emacs :) 18:22:43 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.176.5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:49 I've only used Slime, its awesome, but you'll also need to learn Emacs (which isn't bad, it has decent menus/mouse handling) 18:23:20 zhulikas: it's not a "plugin" 18:24:24 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 18:25:30 is there a read-sequence equivalent I can use when I just want to skip ahead n bytes in the stream? 18:26:02 setf file-position? 18:26:17 you're good at answering your own questions 18:26:21 mheld [~mheld@74.125.60.4] has joined #lisp 18:26:56 file-position doesn't get along well with gray streams :~( 18:27:00 (only file-position isn't an accessor) 18:27:07 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:48 can somebody fix that for CL3 pls? thx 18:29:28 rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-172-145.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:39 Xach: neither does it get along with sockets, I guess (; 18:32:32 but given that you can make your own sequence types, you could define a null-sequence that returns a given length, and specialize read-sequence on that to skip ahead if it can (-; 18:32:58 urandom__ [~user@p548A596D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:50 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 18:35:28 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:39:08 ignas [~ignas@89.249.94.25] has joined #lisp 18:39:47 -!- mheld [~mheld@74.125.60.4] has quit [Quit: mheld] 18:41:37 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:41:46 jdz [~jdz@host245-107-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:41:56 shit, emacs is confusing 18:42:26 zhulikas: It's worth the effort to learn. 18:42:40 it ate confizius you know 18:42:48 lol 18:42:48 well I heard that people are using Emacs / vim as theirs IDEs for most languages 18:43:03 Dawgmatix [~dman@123.201.201.243] has joined #lisp 18:43:06 I mean as a main IDE 18:43:11 it is that powerful 18:43:35 zhulikas: Emacs is a nice OS but sometimes falls short as editor :P 18:44:17 p_l|backup, I dont know much about Emacs so at some point I may believe what you are saying is true 18:44:26 I just installed the package manager in Emacs. It makes the OS comparison feel official. 18:44:55 seriously, dont make fun of me ;D 18:45:05 zhulikas: Emacs + Slime is right up there with full featured commercial IDEs (like IntelliJ, MS stuff, etc) 18:45:33 mishoo [~mishoo@host212-104-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:45:52 zhulikas: you can read e-mail, irc, browse the web, all from inside Emacs. If you do it right a fresh cup of coffee is just a M-x away :) 18:46:41 coffee.el ;P 18:46:43 but it just runs a process insite itself 18:46:48 inside* 18:47:14 zhulikas: there are serious, commercially-supported operating systems that run as a process on top of another platform 18:47:16 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@123.201.201.243] has quit [Client Quit] 18:47:23 <_8david> stream-file-position is SETFable 18:47:29 It looks like that to the user, but it's possible to run the process remotely 18:48:03 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 18:48:42 can you give me an example what can I run through M-x in emacs on Ubuntu? 18:48:55 all I can think of is shell 18:48:55 <_8david> supported at least by LW, CLISP, SBCL, Allegro 18:49:17 _8david: does t-g-s expose it? 18:49:41 <_8david> yes, on the above-mentioned platforms. If any implementations are missing, please send patches. 18:50:38 <_8david> Edi uses it (in flexi-streams IIRC) for several years now. 18:50:49 zhulikas: discussions about Emacs are more fitting in #emacs, though 18:51:02 yeah... sorry for that :) 18:51:28 _8david: oh? i only knew about the file-position problem because edi asked me not to use file-position in one of my libraries because it doesn't work with gray streams! 18:51:41 <_3b> _8david: did anyone ever actually use that feature though? seems like i had to patch it every time i tried a new lisp :p 18:53:44 <_3b> Xach: i think it isn't officially part of the spec, but most implementations have something that can be used 18:53:56 <_3b> (to the extent that there is any official spec for gray streams) 18:54:05 _3b: definitely not part of the spec. 18:54:50 -!- anonymouse89 [~brian@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:55:31 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 18:56:08 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:11 <_8david> http://weitz.de/flexi-streams/#position is pretty clear on the situation: It doesn't work portably, because not all trivial-gray-streams backends have it, so you need to expect NIL in those cases. 18:59:11 <_8david> 18:59:27 <_8david> "Patches for other Common Lisp implementations should be sent to the trivial-gray-streams maintainers." 19:00:09 I think I fell in love with Emacs from the first sight 19:03:10 -!- mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:04:53 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:05:32 -!- krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:16 zhulikas: Tell me why, i can't seem to explain to a lot of people why it's awesome 19:06:27 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 19:08:10 -!- billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:08:41 it's much faster than GUI IDE, all navigation could be done with Ctrl and Alt buttons. Cool :) 19:09:02 It can have multiple pages which is good for programming 19:09:31 and eLisp leaves a great opportunity to make plugins and also learn lisp :) (which is also my goal) 19:09:51 that's what I know so far. 19:09:54 A lot of people i know use something like gedit and a terminal 19:10:09 And when i show them how stuff is so much easier and faster using emacs 19:10:12 I use gedit and nano :) 19:10:18 and it has built-in irc clients (i'm using right now), which isn't that good for programming 19:10:30 They proceed to use all their fingers and then put their foot on the keyboard 19:10:36 And explain that's why they don't like 19:10:44 -!- incandenza_ [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:11:01 stassats: ERC is pretty nice 19:11:11 mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:17 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:11:41 and it has built-in irc clients (i'm using right now), which isn't that good for programming 19:11:46 -!- incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:11:52 wait, what? Irc client is not that good for programming? 19:11:53 that's what i said! 19:12:10 zhulikas: yes, it's distracting 19:12:15 hehe :) 19:12:28 stassats: I'm sitting here reading your discussion instead of reading & writing my code! :) 19:12:47 I'm wasting time in this channel instead of learning emacs! 19:13:15 *p_l|backup* was recently contemplating a clean break from the EINE/ZWEI/Zmacs/Hemlock/Climacs tradition and writing an Emacs-like editor with some significant changes (like buffers not being primarily text buffers) 19:13:17 anyway, it will take some time untill I learn to use all emacs commands. 19:13:26 zhulikas: you never learn all of them 19:13:31 zhulikas: no one knows it 19:13:41 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:13:41 p_l|backup: what name were you going to use? something like FIRST? (: 19:14:03 well, yeah... it has over 1000 commands or so... as it is written in tour... anyway, at least I need to learn to navigate :D 19:14:11 What usually happens is you find yourself doing something a lot of times, and then you go look to automate it and find out it's already there 19:14:14 antifuchs: NTH or CADDDDR :P 19:14:21 heh 19:15:14 antifuchs: cause it would be closer to a "lisp machine os" than editor, I guess (kinda like Acme-SAC, which is *delivered* with an operating system to run it on :D) 19:15:24 <_8david> drei/climacs comes closest to that ideal, doesn't it? athas did lots of work to make redisplay fast in the presence of non-text 19:16:28 _8david: I was thinking along the lines of making the buffers explicitly non-textual, with text-only buffers being a subclass 19:16:50 p_l|backup: I think every emacs user has thought about that, at least i have 19:17:13 and even those could be built with non-textual buffers displaying onto single window, creating multiple regions of text "widgets" to be manipulated 19:17:21 mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:48 with a text buffer being actually a tree+zipper of lines 19:19:01 What's the current state of concurrency in emacs? 19:19:21 drdo: as far as I know only sxemacs has threads. 19:19:39 p_l|backup: where can i see the code? 19:20:02 drdo: "better run it as separate process". that is, green threads without concurrency. SXemacs might have threading, but that's thanks to quite big changes in Xemacs and it's forks 19:20:10 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:20:37 stassats: after certain initial projects are done (the VM and UI library, which I have a use for different projects) 19:20:58 p_l|backup: Are you using CL? 19:21:05 drdo: yes 19:21:17 p_l|backup: ok, that'd be in 10 years, approximately 19:21:44 Why would it be in 10 years? 19:21:46 stassats: yeah, unless somehow the idea gets more traction 19:21:49 drdo: it's *big* 19:22:00 Well sure, an OS is a big project 19:22:08 Which is really the point of the project 19:22:16 though an elisp->cl compiler plus compat mode might make it easier to port some stuff... 19:22:56 Well, i guess you could just have a compat mode and port stuff over time 19:24:28 drdo: the big chunk would be the VM and UI libs 19:24:48 -!- retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:25:14 -!- limetree [~hi@c-0be9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:25:23 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 19:25:33 p_l|backup: I'm interested in having something like that, i can help 19:25:33 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:26:16 Suppose I have a plist (:foo (:x 10 :y 20)) Is there anyway to use one destructuring-bind to pick out the value of :foo with &key and then destructure it into its :x and :y parts, again with &key? 19:26:49 drdo: at worst I might end up working on the VM in my fourth year (next year is placement, then fourth year at uni) 19:27:52 Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.176.5] has joined #lisp 19:29:09 lovesan [~lovesan@188.122.250.168] has joined #lisp 19:29:11 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 19:30:40 gigamonkey: (destructuring-bind (&key ((:foo (&key x y)))) '(:foo (:x 10 :y 20)) (list x y)) 19:31:19 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:34 stassats: thanks. 19:34:50 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:34:53 and if you want to have the value of :foo (&key ((:foo (&whole foo &key x y)))) 19:36:18 Hi all. Please, can someone explain why do i get such an error on CCL(Clozure Common Lisp Version 1.6  (WindowsX8632)): 19:36:18 ? (defgeneric foo (x &optional y)) 19:36:18 # 19:36:19 ? (make-instance 'standard-method :lambda-list '(x &optional) :specializers (list (find-class 'integer)) :function (lambda (&rest args) (print args))) 19:36:19 ? (add-method #'foo *) 19:36:19 # 19:36:19 > Error: Lambda list of method # 19:36:20 > is incompatible with that of the generic function FOO. 19:36:20 > Method's lambda-list : (X &OPTIONAL Y) 19:36:21 > Generic-function's : (X &OPTIONAL Y) 19:36:21 > 19:36:22 > While executing: CCL::CHECK-DEFMETHOD-CONGRUENCY, in process listener(1). 19:36:26 :o 19:36:30 lovesan: paste? 19:36:42 oh, i'm sorry 19:37:08 is it possible to create command-line application with common lisp ? The one which is able to get information from user input (not only arguments passed into program), print out something... ? 19:37:25 zhulikas: sure. it will vary depending on the implementation, though. 19:37:52 here's the paste http://paste.lisp.org/display/117487 19:38:34 then can common lisp be compiled and run as a .exe file on windows? 19:38:38 zhulikas: yes. 19:38:44 I am thinking of a way I could learn lisp 19:38:44 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-172-145.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 19:39:07 zhulikas: that's a better question than the one before. (ie. how can I learn lisp) 19:39:19 incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:20 I am on the first course of computer science degree and it would be a good exercise to do everything in lisp for what I am asked to do in java 19:39:31 lovesan: sounds like http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/ticket/600 19:39:47 antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-tlepjwjrvpqldbzr] has joined #lisp 19:39:53 though all I asked is command-line interface applications 19:40:41 zhulikas: They use java on the introductory course on your univ? 19:40:50 well, yeah. 19:41:06 drdo: that's how a lot of schools roll these days. 19:41:09 Wow, that sucks 19:41:14 why? 19:41:14 hehe. 19:41:19 what's wrong? :D 19:41:21 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:41:28 they totally should teach APL 19:41:39 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:43 I can't think of a worse language for that purpose right now :P 19:41:52 because it hardens the spirit 19:42:31 zhulikas: personally, I find it hard to express the right abstractions in Java and I find its syntax distracting. 19:42:32 well I started with Pascal back at school. 19:42:37 rme: nice :( so, this means that one is unable to add methods to generic functions at runtime on CCL using MOP? 19:42:47 stassats: ... I suggested making assembly class necessary to pass CS in my school. As a "required" course in first year 19:43:07 p_l|backup: My univ is like that 19:43:15 yeah so what you want to say that people are teaching in the wrong way 19:43:17 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 19:43:25 There's a course on computer architecture on the first semester second year 19:43:27 p_l|backup: but that's not unrealistic enough 19:43:31 not from the beginning (which is hardware) 19:43:45 are there any workarounds? except eval (i.e (eval '(defmethod ...))), of course 19:43:52 next semester we will have computer architecture :) 19:44:02 When i did it the project was a snake game with computer controlled enemies in assembly 19:44:04 george_ [~george@189.107.132.152] has joined #lisp 19:44:12 wow :o 19:44:16 -!- george_ [~george@189.107.132.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:19 p_l|backup: i remember writing in binary for a made-up architecture, with an emulator for windows (which i was running under Wine) 19:44:32 that's on the second year 19:44:35 summersault [~george@189.107.132.152] has joined #lisp 19:44:59 drdo, I want to study in your university if they have such requirements to pass 19:45:05 stassats: how hard is your spirit now? 19:45:16 zhulikas: I thought it was like this everywhere :S 19:45:33 Xach: not hard enough, i didn't finish my emulator in Lisp 19:45:40 assembly on the first course? game with AI ? seriously? 19:45:43 i think i got it mostly working, except for IO 19:46:17 -!- cmm- [~cmm@109.65.202.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:46:17 I wish I had such course :( 19:46:18 zhulikas: Not on the first course, it was on the second year, first semester 19:46:24 oh... 19:46:29 On the introductory course we use scheme 19:46:39 then maybe i'll have my time for assembly 19:46:50 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-202-226.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:56 Pretty much an adapted version of SICP 19:47:37 zhulikas: Didn't you say you were going to have a computer architecture course? 19:48:03 computer architecture course is on the second semester of my computer science degree. 19:48:16 I supposed you'll use assembly there? 19:48:20 I hope so :) 19:48:43 but its more college than university where I study... 19:48:57 Is there a difference? 19:49:23 I thought those were synonyms 19:49:25 well, they are brainwashing us by telling that we are 'learning by doing' which basically means that we learn stuff which is used on the market right now 19:50:26 The spirit of Dijkstra is glaring sternly at your university right now 19:50:52 I think the stuff used on the market sets an appallingly low bar, myself 19:51:29 lovesan: have you tried passing :generic-function #'foo to make-instance? 19:52:14 I don't mind learning programming by solving programming problems (: 19:52:45 solving the halting problem sounds like a fun semester project 19:52:51 but I guess learning what's "used in the market right now" doesn't mean learning clojure, scala and erlang, but stuff like grody java (-: 19:52:53 programming IS solving problems 19:52:57 antifuchs, Idea is really good, but the exercises they are giving are too easy 19:53:04 Well, describing how to solve problems 19:53:22 stassats: and does this help? i'm unable to try this on CCL at the moment 19:53:26 yeah, Java, C#, UML 19:53:35 some points from business sector in IT 19:53:44 lovesan: it works on mine 19:53:49 the thing is that I dont want to be a code monkey 19:54:04 stassats: ok, thanks 19:54:06 zhulikas: I think you are studying at the wrong university then? 19:54:09 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:54:11 drdo yes. 19:54:43 USA has a lot to offer but prices there are too damn high 19:54:51 I'm from Portugal 19:54:58 Mine is pretty cheap 19:55:18 there are lots of lispers in europe 19:55:42 the thing is not about lisp... the thing is about learning challenges :) 19:55:57 zhulikas: can you make your own challenges? 19:56:01 *ehu* is in The Netherlands, though did not go to a school which would teach great programming 19:56:04 every dumbass can write code in Java. But not everyone can do it in asm 19:56:09 lovesan: You could comment on the bug and mention that it's affecting you. 19:56:10 working on open-source projects is one 19:56:39 zhulikas: Actually, Java makes it really hard to write software 19:56:41 stassats, I would go for AI on my own 19:56:44 there's always project euler :P 19:56:50 drdo: would you prefer c? 19:56:57 I do. 19:57:00 perhaps c++ 19:57:01 pmd: Yes 19:57:13 At least C lets me have my way 19:57:22 yeah, lovely pointers 19:57:30 then you find out that msvc, gcc, bsc and what not are a bit different from each other 19:57:37 Good C gets you a lot further than standard Java. 19:57:49 *derrida* thought everyone learns C 19:57:54 how about basic? 19:57:56 pmd: they all support C89 19:58:09 stick to that and you're good. 19:58:13 please do not make this another programming language discussion 19:58:16 pmd: that was 20 years ago :P 19:58:21 and don't fiddle with undefined behaviour 19:58:23 zhulikas: Well said! 19:58:39 (in all languages) 19:58:41 Let us talk about how Lisp is superior to all. 19:58:45 ^ 19:58:52 Lisp is pretty great. 19:58:52 but is this not already a programming language discussion where we're all praising lisp? 19:59:01 Java forces me to do 3 summersaults, jump through hoops and spin around to solve a simple problem 19:59:09 I thought about writing Java once. And then I just went and coded Lisp. 19:59:17 drdo: pebcak? 19:59:26 -!- jdz [~jdz@host245-107-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:59:33 pmd: No. 19:59:43 sykopomp: and you even get ABCL to integrate with other people's mediocre Java :-) 19:59:44 i can write programs in Lisp much faster and better than in any other language, i guess that's because i only know Lisp... 19:59:58 hehe :) 20:00:01 *derrida* chuckles 20:00:53 stassats: I know Java, C and Lisp. However, only in Lisp have I been able to write programs which didn't need maintenance (yet already run for 6 years) after delivery. 20:00:56 rfg [~rfg@host81-102-107-114.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:05 *p_l|backup* wonders if there's *any* way to get something like Sinatra in Java. On CL, there's Hunchentoot and defservice (Sinatra is Ruby) 20:01:15 I don't know if this is a Hunchentoot question or a basic web programming question, but is there a way, once someone has logged in using basic auth, to tell the browser to forget it. 20:01:41 gigamonkey: basic web programming question (i don't know the answer) 20:01:45 -!- futuremint [~dave@99-190-205-150.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 20:02:02 ehu: Android is the only reason I'd use ABCL right now. 20:02:24 wouldn't it be a bit slow? 20:02:26 gigamonkey: reject the auth during one of the requests, I'd guess. 20:03:11 gigamonkey: close the browser 20:03:20 sykopomp: I'm not saying you needed ABCL; you probably don't need integration with Java. 20:04:17 rme: stassats proposed a solution, which works fine for me 20:05:09 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@137-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 20:05:55 ehu: good guess. Thanks. 20:06:03 welcome. 20:07:50 limetree [~hi@c-0be9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:07:54 rejecting the auth might work, but it's not exactly reliable (the browser might still have the credentials hashed) 20:07:58 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host20-10-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:08:18 gigamonkey: you could try using digest authentication then forcibly expiring nonces etc. 20:08:59 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 20:09:17 kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:12:28 -!- ravic [~ravi@118-92-129-45.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:21 sellout [~greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:28 p_l|backup: well, I don't really care if they forget. I just want to go through the login procedure again. 20:15:58 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:04 gigamonkey: ah, then 401 will be enough 20:18:36 though digest is better than basic, since you can encode a timestamp into it 20:18:40 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-28-86.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 20:21:48 -!- ignas [~ignas@89.249.94.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:21:54 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:22:30 Can someone give me a hint how to use a CL-PPCRE regexp ? I just want to find if some phrase is inside some text ? 20:22:58 (ppcre:scan "phrase" some-text) 20:23:09 ok 20:23:12 (search "phrase" some-text) 20:23:43 thanks 20:23:44 (no cl-ppcre required) 20:23:56 cl-ppcre might be a lot faster, depending on the data involved. 20:23:58 stassats: Assuming "phrase" isn't a regex. 20:24:18 and if your lisp does bmh matching. 20:24:52 sbcl has bmh matching optionally 20:24:54 *Xach* can't remember if sbcl does, vaguely remembers some discussion like that 20:25:33 see contrib/compiler-extras.lisp 20:26:07 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 20:26:53 stassats: Is there than some other library or you mean just by using plain lisp ? 20:27:24 prljavi_hari: plain lisp 20:27:24 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-101-231.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:27:29 plain old lisp 20:27:35 ok 20:30:07 gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.211] has joined #lisp 20:30:54 hunchentoot seems to strip ../'s from the urls before they are handled. Is that behavior documented anywhere? 20:31:19 gigamonkey: it's probably a security measure? 20:31:29 to prevent resolving outside of the webserver root? 20:32:07 although 404 not found would probably also be a good response from the server. 20:32:18 yeah, stripping /../ is quite common I believe, or at least treating it like an error 20:32:30 gigamonkey: I think that RFCs require the the URIs be canonicalized before being used 20:32:31 gigamonkey: Are you certain it's hunchentoot and not your http client? 20:33:26 so, interesting issue. 20:33:53 Objects that are stored in the sbcl core image never get GC'd. 20:34:14 Which means, if they have pointers to stuff not in the image, *those* also never get GC'd. 20:34:14 ehu: yes. I just wanted to make sure I could rely on it. 20:34:26 ah. 20:34:26 Xach: good point. 20:34:55 So, if you e.g. have a hashtable in the image, and then startup the image and add a bunch of stuff to the hashtable. 20:35:02 at some point it will be resized to fit the new items 20:35:30 and then you've got the old hashtable vector sitting in non-gc'able memory, permanently, pointing to a large collection of objects in normal memory. 20:35:41 joy! 20:36:26 foom: normally though, the image is mmap()ed whole 20:36:31 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:36:59 p_l|backup: yes, including the hashtable and the backing kv-vector. 20:37:19 p_l|backup: but then as you start adding items to the hashtable at runtime, it exceeds the preallocated size and needs to rehash 20:38:16 I can't believe I've never noticed this issue before (and that nobody else did either) 20:38:49 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:41:16 Initializing a DEFVAR directly can often taint a core file, having each package provide an INIT file which sets those seems like a better albeit much less convenient (and nowhere predominant) solution. 20:41:28 INIT function I meant to say 20:41:44 that kind of goes against the whole idea of a core file 20:41:57 might as well just load the fasls at that point...except that fasls are so slow. :) 20:42:15 Indeed 20:42:18 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-28-86.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 20:42:52 This seems like a pretty serious issue, but one which I cannot think of a real solution to 20:43:35 The thing is that with the dump mechanism, it's not only compile-time that's different from runtime (which is easily conceivable) but also load-time 20:44:51 foom: make core read-only as a whole, then selectively unmap pages that are written to, adding them to GC-able pages? 20:45:24 -!- limetree [~hi@c-0be9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:45:41 it would still have similar characteristics as COW mappings but will inform GC 20:46:04 p_l|backup: hm. So, anytime you un-write-protect a page in the perm gen, move it into the highest normal gen, perhaps? 20:46:22 it's already all marked read-only at startup. 20:46:33 that's an simple enough solution it actually sounds like it'd work. :) 20:46:43 runelk [~user@2001:700:100:802:2a0:d1ff:fea3:1009] has joined #lisp 20:47:51 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.211] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 20:49:21 charliekilo [~charlieki@pool-96-236-149-254.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:17 foom: sounds right 20:51:49 reminds me that I have to reread ld.so docs on dynamic linker symbol table for my threading hack 20:51:51 <_8david> wouldn't you have to un-write-protect every other perm page that points to the perm page being moved back to a normal one, because those pointers are now to a younger generation? 20:52:12 foom: do you really have this problem with hash tables? I thought we cleared the backing vectors on rehash 20:54:25 Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:55:04 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-51-145-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:04 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-51-145-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:55:04 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 20:55:09 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has joined #lisp 20:55:16 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 20:55:26 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 20:57:26 -!- runelk [~user@2001:700:100:802:2a0:d1ff:fea3:1009] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:58:10 jsnell: I now see they do. I had this problem with *our* hashtables, which don't do that, since of course it's not necessary to clear an unreferenced object! 20:58:20 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:58:24 (except that it apparently is) 20:58:25 s 20:59:11 haha :-) apparently all that paranoia about conservatism was good for something 21:00:17 _8david: hrmf. 21:00:32 _8david: of course you're right. :( 21:00:40 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:45 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-212-92.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:46 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01117e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:20 -!- churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-115-169.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:03:49 limetree [~hi@c-0be9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:04:06 hi 21:04:30 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:04:30 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-212-190.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:31 -!- kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:06:02 I guess there's not much that can be done about the general problem without a wholesale GC revamp. 21:06:39 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 21:07:10 foom: well, one thing I was interested in looking at was replacing the GC completely with a compacting concurrent one. But I'll first try that with my own implementation :D 21:07:28 -!- lovesan [~lovesan@188.122.250.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:07:43 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.146.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:07:49 Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:08:25 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:42 Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:09:16 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.52.88] has joined #lisp 21:12:28 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.139.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:35 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:13:22 -!- Vivitron [ad4c080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.76.8.10] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:13:24 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:20 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:41 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.176.5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:47 redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 21:17:00 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3937.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:13 beyeran [~beyeran@pD9E26337.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:01 Hi, can someone please explain to me or refer to a documentation which explains how to "comunicate" between objects inside a *.nib file and ccl? I walked though the "Apple's Currency Converter in Lisp" tutorial and I'm not sure how these two "communicate" together. 21:19:19 beyeran: I'm not sure, but if nobody has a nice answer here, you might also try the mailing list, which is very friendly and helpful and has a number of experts on it. 21:19:20 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:19:24 -!- antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-tlepjwjrvpqldbzr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:25 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:34 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:19:48 http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/openmcl-devel has some info 21:20:00 There's also #ccl 21:20:03 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:12 ok, thank you, I'll try it ther 21:20:38 beyeran: didn't *.nib file just include data for instances created in runtime? You should be able to walk the object tree 21:22:09 I'm not really sure, I'm relatively new to cocoa development 21:23:14 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Quit: brb] 21:23:22 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 21:23:31 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:31 btw, how close to ANSI CL is Movitz? 21:24:10 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-142-198-238.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:24:37 p_l|backup: in a galaxy far away 21:25:37 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has left #lisp 21:26:23 haha 21:26:24 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:27:38 ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 21:29:16 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:31:53 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.184.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:35:23 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:12 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has quit [Quit: superflit] 21:37:53 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-132-123-16.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:47 stuhacking [~stuhackin@host86-149-32-63.range86-149.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:42:05 -!- stuhacking [~stuhackin@host86-149-32-63.range86-149.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:44:07 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:44:49 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:45:09 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:36 -!- mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:45:43 pdk [~realname@c-67-163-243-242.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:42 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 21:47:41 tib [~tl@89-180-206-153.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 21:48:35 -!- marijnjh [~user@p5DDB3AEA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:51:41 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:52:31 Vivitron [ad4c080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.76.8.10] has joined #lisp 21:58:28 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:00:41 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-168-129.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:00:45 -!- limetree [~hi@c-0be9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: bye] 22:01:28 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 22:02:04 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:03:58 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:03 johanbev [~johanbev@159.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:06 Seems like I can't use a macro within dolist... 22:06:45 It's going to expand within the dolist before dolist is interpreted 22:07:07 pepone [~pepone@121.246.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:07:10 seangrove: seems like there's a misunderstanding in how macros are expanded. 22:07:15 Is that the right understanding? 22:07:19 Haha, apparently not :) 22:08:49 seangrove: macros are expanded head first, so the expansion of DOLIST doesn't see what its subforms will become. Some macros do explicitly macroexpand their arguments, but that smells. 22:09:18 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:55 -!- boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:01 pkhuong: What does head-first mean? 22:10:39 mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:03 seangrove: from head of the list 22:11:19 from the outside of the expression, and it doesn't recurse inside the sexp until there's no macro to expand left. 22:14:00 ah, I got it 22:14:22 Uh, what. (defpackage :foo (:use :cl :ironclad)) errors because of confilcting symbols NULL. But I don't see where ironclad exports NULL. (It shadows it.) 22:14:22 It just occurred to me that dolist is macro :) 22:14:51 argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-65-165-22.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:08 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:15:11 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:23 -!- sellout [~greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 22:15:31 gigamonkey: but it uses "null" to designate the symbol 22:15:43 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-65-165-22.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:15:48 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 22:16:01 argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-65-165-22.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:06 Does that matter? It's still not exported. 22:16:38 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01117e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:09 -!- beyeran [~beyeran@pD9E26337.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 22:17:33 aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:18:20 right, it shouldn't matter 22:19:08 ziga [~user@cpe-77.38.2.117.cable.t-1.si] has joined #lisp 22:19:14 Quick question from the lisp noob. I'm passing a function A into function B and attempting to recurse in B with the pointer to function A. Can't manage to make it happen. Anyone have any tips? 22:19:31 <_3b> gigamonkey: seems to be exported here, not that i can find any code that exports it 22:19:32 gigamonkey: but apparently it is exported 22:19:59 Weird. 22:20:47 argiopeweb: paste the code maybe 22:20:51 Okay, what library has a function to convert a string to an array of octets representing its UTF-8 encoding? 22:20:53 argiopeweb: to paste.lisp.org (see topic) 22:21:00 gigamonkey: trivial-utf-8 is one 22:21:14 Xach: Yep, on it now. 22:21:38 Xach: thanks. 22:21:58 gigamonkey: babel is another 22:21:59 askatasuna [~askatasun@host230.190-3-1.static.telmex.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:22:35 gigamonkey: it has a "null cipher", and defcipher exports the cipher's name 22:23:03 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A596D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:05 gigamonkey: might be one of those libraries you're not supposed to :USE 22:23:13 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-134-100.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:23:35 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:25:22 http://paste.lisp.org/display/117497 22:25:56 -!- Trees [~Trees@users.denimgroup.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:56 -!- muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:26:07 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 22:26:18 Aaaand, it helps when I don't randomly change the name of the function... Grr. 22:27:34 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 22:27:35 adeht: ah, I missed that defcipher does that. 22:27:46 pkhuong: apparently. 22:27:54 Hmm, I can't figure out how to work quite right... 22:27:59 More macros! 22:28:45 benny [~benny@i577A3937.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:30:02 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-65-165-22.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:30:30 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:31 If I use ` to quote a form, splice some stuff in... how can I then execute that code? eval? 22:32:17 seangrove: typically, you return it from a macro. 22:34:40 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:35:26 -!- retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:26 pkhuong: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117498 22:36:20 It prints fine, but isn't actually evaluated 22:36:40 Which does make sense, but isn't quite what I'm looking for 22:37:11 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:38:12 EVAL does work, but again, this eems like a case where I'm abusing it 22:39:46 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 22:40:30 you could change load-models into a macro, but it looks like you want to define models at runtime, which likely means you shouldn't use defmodel 22:42:11 perhaps it would be instructive to learn about defclass and ensure-class 22:42:14 -!- ziga [~user@cpe-77.38.2.117.cable.t-1.si] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:43:11 adeht: Actually, I'm using defclass underneath - http://paste.lisp.org/display/117499 22:44:23 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:44:29 seangrove: all the more reason to learn about the difference and relation between the two 22:44:46 if you have to programamtically generate classes, and you can't do it all at macroexpansion-time, eval might be the simplest way. 22:44:58 or you can use the MOP if it works on your favourite implementation 22:45:50 seangrove: the AMOP book has a good discussion about the various layers 22:47:37 ah, that's an interesting thought 22:47:50 Want to be careful about going too deep too quickly 22:48:04 Working my way through the layers of lisp 22:48:13 seangrove: one thing you should know - this has absolutely nothing to do with backquote 22:49:26 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-174-146.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:50:41 http://imagebin.ca/view/tnEI1Xkc.html Xach, lisp tablet for iosketch 22:50:53 http://imagebin.ca/view/EROdPlBs.html 22:50:55 flips open 22:51:07 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host212-104-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:31 cool 22:53:12 Dangnabit, this non-readably-printable strings in SBCL is annoying. 22:54:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.31.203] has joined #lisp 22:55:36 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:57:52 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:03:12 just spent 2 hours trying to debug last two remaining CFFI test cases that result in unexpected failure on ARM CCL / N900, defcfun.bff.1 and defcfun.bff.2. CCL didn't want to pass negative char values to C... Turned out it's impossible there in plain C, too (after writing a test program) 23:03:59 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:04:00 (as of now, I'm preparing ffi patch for ccl that fixes some callback problems) 23:04:04 I can't actually make a symbol from a string without using intern, right? 23:04:14 And I can't intern a symbol into "no package" 23:05:03 seangrove: make-symbol 23:05:20 ahh, nice 23:05:29 And what is the #: prepending it? 23:06:04 It means uninterned symbol. 23:06:18 I've seen it for package declarations as well 23:06:25 Awesome 23:07:42 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:11 (... just wrote some stupid stuff above, the real problem is that char is unsigned by default on ARM and CFFI tests ignore that) 23:09:07 -!- zhulikas [zhulikas@3e6b7b31.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:47 francogrex [~user@109.130.73.171] has joined #lisp 23:12:28 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-174-146.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:04 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:15:11 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 23:20:08 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.31.203] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:24:18 krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:27:49 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 23:27:50 Does anyone know how to make slime tolerate iso-latin-1-unix ? 23:28:08 -!- s1ugg0 [~chrish@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:28:17 -!- krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:31 krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:28:46 -!- krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:01 krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:29:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:33:00 ziga [~user@cpe-77.38.2.117.cable.t-1.si] has joined #lisp 23:33:15 -!- charliekilo [~charlieki@pool-96-236-149-254.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: charliekilo] 23:33:39 Whenever I try to :use :closer-mop, I get a lot of issues about conflicts with common-lisp:defmethod and closer-mop:defmethod, etc... how do I bring this in to my package? 23:34:17 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.73.171] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:35:54 shadow? 23:37:48 I just thought that c2mop must be pretty common, and no one would really want to go through all that trouble... 23:38:09 Is MOPery all that common though? 23:38:44 oh wow. asdf-dependency-grovel: still useful after 4 years (-: 23:39:12 I'm using it to split the os-dependent parts out of a huge, complicated multi-system structure 23:39:14 rpg: did you set slime-net-encoding to what you want ? 23:39:21 I kind of assumed it was, but that may not be a fair assumption 23:39:34 seeing a graph with files highlighted that are actually os-dependent helps a lot (: 23:39:41 (better than guesswork, at least) 23:39:42 homie: I did not know about that... let me try... 23:40:08 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3937.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:33 homie: Hm. It /is/ set to that, but I keep getting errors about it. 23:40:36 rpg: ok read the slime manual or google for it, and if it fails it maybe due to mule failing in newer emacs or being obsolete or so i read.... 23:41:11 rpg: i don't know if that also holds for encodings backed by mule.... 23:41:18 -!- rfg [~rfg@host81-102-107-114.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 23:41:26 homie: I see. the error message was confusing me. In fact, what's wrong is that I'm throwing an encoded string that doesn't fit in iso-latin-1-unix.... 23:41:53 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 23:42:45 rpg: maybe you should try the iso8859-1 instead ! 23:44:07 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-89-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:45:35 homie: That's listed as not being a multibyte scheme.... 23:46:02 homie: do I assume correctly that I need to crash my current slime session and restart to change this coding system? 23:46:12 seangrove: if you want to use c2mop, don't :use :cl 23:46:19 seangrove: c2mop re-exports each CL symbol. 23:47:50 -!- ziga [~user@cpe-77.38.2.117.cable.t-1.si] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:58 benny [~benny@i577A3937.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:49:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:50:32 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:46 gigamonkey: See the bottom of https://github.com/brown/protobuf/blob/master/base.lisp for utf to string functions. 23:55:54 -!- dfox_ [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:56:41 reb: fyi, in int64-to-uint64 you can avoid the conditional by just using (ldb (byte 64 0) value) 23:58:31 reb: (just randomly browsing) 23:59:43 Xach: Thanks 23:59:45 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp