00:02:23 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-40-241.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: jconrad] 00:03:30 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-176-79.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:05:19 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:20 hey 00:07:10 Yo. 00:08:07 Steven_ [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 00:08:50 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:09:43 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:11:36 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 00:12:19 -!- Steven_ [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:04 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:15:04 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 00:15:04 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 00:15:12 is '(1 2 3) syntactic sugar for list 1 2 3? 00:15:55 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:01 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:16:05 No. 00:16:26 '(1 2 3) is a literal list that you must never destructively modify. 00:16:33 (list 1 2 3) produces a fresh list. 00:18:07 ok, thanks..i should really read practical lisp ive just been looking at the code in the first few chapters 00:18:26 p_l|home [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:19:04 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 00:20:20 When reading the HyperSpec, keep in mind that the examples are not normative so there can be errors sometimes, and the code used is sometimes not idiomatic or worse. I think there are a few examples in the spec that foolishly destructively modify quoted literals. Don't get fooled ;) 00:20:58 heh thanks, just wanting to learn it right first time..:) 00:21:37 Hexstream: I don't think it says you're not allowed to destructively modify literal lists. just that consequences are undefined 00:22:12 Well. I can appreciate that there's a difference in theory, but perhaps not in practice. 00:22:18 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 00:22:44 "You can shoot yourself in the head, but we usually don't recommend it for your health in most cases." 00:23:19 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.222] has joined #lisp 00:24:26 kanru [~kanru@114-45-232-142.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:59 -!- [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:26:22 craiggles: Once upon a time, there was a '. The ' is a BIG RED STOP SIGN, and his kind is always yelling furiously at the evaluator saying "DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH ANYTHING BEHIND ME". In response to such demands, the evaluator eats the poor ' and goes away (leaving everything behind the now gone ' alone), going elsewhere to do his deeds. THE END. 00:27:30 bravo. 00:27:31 kushal [~kdas@115.240.2.247] has joined #lisp 00:27:31 -!- kushal [~kdas@115.240.2.247] has quit [Changing host] 00:27:31 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 00:28:04 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:29 Hum. I sometimes feel MAPCAR should also accept 0 lists and simply return NIL in that case. 00:29:53 modifying literals is fun, at least on SBCL :D 00:29:59 After all, you've sort of "reached" the "end" of "all" the lists. 00:30:29 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:47 9 out of 8 times modifying literals backfires horribly :> 00:32:20 craiggles: part II: Once upon a time, there was a `. The ` was a big yellow warning sign, and his kind is always somewhat cautiously telling the evaluator "Ey bro, don't touch anything over here, except for things marked by the stakes in the ground which look like this --> ,". The evaluator, furious with the demands of ` decided he was going to eat him. ` recognized this and said "wait! There are some lovely bags out behind me with stakes in f 00:32:20 ront of them, they look like --> ,@ and you are more than welcome to open up these bags, just take the trash of the ,@ with you!" The evaluator eats the ` anyway, and goes to mess around with everything at the stakes, and opens up and unpacks everything in the bags. THE END. 00:32:43 hagman [~hagman@HSI-KBW-085-216-093-236.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 00:33:02 *craiggles* is enjoying these. 00:33:09 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:33:41 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 00:34:05 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:34:24 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 00:34:47 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:31 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:35:53 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 00:37:04 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu183.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:38:53 ive got a big feeling that ill struggle with lisp 00:40:06 don't struggle. Grab PCL and enjoy the ride 00:40:11 craiggles: Don't have that feel. it's not very complicated. 00:40:17 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4638.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:51 craiggles: the real crazy comes much, much later than I thought when I was getting into Lisp 00:41:16 schmrkc, its just im not an advanced programmer, basically the issue is that i havent had a project so i havent done much..im planning to just focus on lisp though. 00:41:43 craiggles: Well if you're not an advanced programmer, then that means your brain won't require too much rewiring. 00:42:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:42:32 thats a good thing, but when i go back to other languages after lisp that may be aweful, or? 00:42:41 ef 00:42:42 Yeah that'll be the case too. 00:42:47 craiggles: no. 00:42:50 i've always wondered if you exposed someone to lisp or haskell or some other "weird" language as a first language if they will think something like java or python is "weird" and hard to learn 00:43:03 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:43:11 schmrkc: When you move from lisp back to C++, I think it's pretty awful. 00:43:23 Quadrescence: Well that's you then. 00:43:40 I'll take a guess most lispers feel the same. [citation needed] 00:43:48 Quadrescence: I can see a lot of awful any direction I move. No need to focus on it. 00:43:55 so shouldnt i learn lisp? (my main language was/will be javascript (not just in the browser)) 00:44:31 necroforest: Probably not. 00:44:33 craiggles: actually, JS is kind of a relative of lisp 00:44:38 on the how to become a hacker article it says learning lisp is beneficical 00:44:43 schmrkc: Well to me that's like saying "Yeah it'd be awful to remove any body part, just don't focus on it when it's gone." 00:45:05 Quadrescence: Good advice! 00:45:07 p_l|home, hmm, well i guess it cant do any/too much harm 00:45:13 Quadrescence: I find a lot of awful things when I move from SomeOtherLangugageIUse to Lisp alos. 00:45:20 Quadrescence: also even. 00:45:27 Quadrescence: I prefer to see it as different. 00:45:33 schmrkc: Then you need to be reprogramming lisp to make it not awful! 00:45:37 schmrkc: It's okay, you can camelcase in Lisp too! :> 00:45:50 craiggles: I actually started seriously considering JS *after* getting to some sensible level in lisp, and it definitely helped, because I didn't have to fight with concepts like first class functions, closures, etc. 00:45:57 franki^: Why would I want to do that? 00:45:58 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 00:46:05 The main problem with getting used to lisp is that you'll really hate programming in most other languages thereafter 00:46:22 drdo: yes that is my "argument" 00:46:24 drdo: eh, not all... but PHP, definitely :P 00:46:27 I call bullshit on that argument. 00:46:34 schmrkc: That's why it was humourous... I was implying that the thing that you missed from theOtherLanguage was the camelcasing... 00:46:38 C is as pleasent as always. 00:46:50 *p_l|home* however hated PHP after using Ruby for webapps (RoR, Merb) 00:46:56 p_l|home: I don't know who the hell came up with the abomination that PHP is, but i hope he dies a horrible death 00:47:03 franki^: I don't do much camelcased programming. But ok. good joke 00:47:19 drdo: he had much simpler reasons for doing what he did, but it got blown out of proportion 00:47:26 schmrkc: Why is C wonderful? You barely can make any abstractions. 00:47:48 schmrkc: C is not nice to program in 00:48:17 drdo: actually, C is quite nice, if you consider it properly, aka as a higher-level assembly 00:48:22 -!- Arelius [42da3765@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.218.55.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:48:35 If you're restricted to a world of C and ASM, yes C is nice. 00:48:41 p_l|home: Well, yes, of course, i meant for general programming 00:48:44 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:48:45 -!- abugosh [~Adium@64-121-86-146.c3-0.tlg-ubr2.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:48:52 abugosh [~Adium@64-121-86-146.c3-0.tlg-ubr2.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:49:50 so yeah ive actually got a lot of things on my to learn list..but i hardly do anything (no excuse, i have plenty of time) lisp being one of course :) 00:50:17 craiggles: You can always just start going through PCL 00:50:32 Quadrescence: it's easy and pleasent to work with. nothing to think about ever. just simplicity. 00:50:39 well i kinda have been, its just i havent read it in detail 00:50:48 drdo: That is too bad that you feel that way. 00:51:04 I think its absurd how some people get fixated to lisp. 00:51:14 just rather looked at the code for the first few tuts 00:51:14 schmrkc: I can write lisp that requires no thinking too! 00:51:17 and think its some magic and much nicer/better/whatever than anything else 00:51:18 schmrkc: That's quite bad trolling 00:51:22 er, chapters. 00:51:26 drdo: What trolling? 00:51:38 Quadrescence: Great. 00:51:54 schmrkc: Why is C nice to program in? 00:51:56 schmrkc: I can also write lisp that requires thought and planning, and fortunately it pays off. 00:52:06 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 00:52:14 drdo: It is easy and pleasent to work with. Total simplicity all over. 00:52:36 simple? yes. easy? no 00:52:36 Quadrescence: I have no idea what stops you from doing that in C or any other random language. 00:52:40 kushal [~kdas@115.242.55.114] has joined #lisp 00:52:40 -!- kushal [~kdas@115.242.55.114] has quit [Changing host] 00:52:40 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 00:52:53 schmrkc: So why are you here? 00:53:00 ... 00:53:11 You obviously think that turing completeness is all that matters 00:53:12 schmrkc: Well mostly because I spend more time in C thinking about how to writhe my way around the problems and not enough time thinking about the problem itself. 00:53:34 Hell, why even program C? It's quite complex too 00:53:44 Could just program in a RISC assembly 00:54:06 drdo: I am here because I write common lisp now and then. and I never claimed that turing completeness is all that matters. I'm just calling bullshit on yours and quads statement that learning lisp will make you hate doing anything else. 00:54:09 proper use of C is heavily related to old, original Unix/Plan 9 design patterns 00:54:15 hey I like programming in RISC assembly 00:54:24 schmrkc: There's learning lisp, then *learning* lisp. 00:54:26 I did it just yesterday. 00:54:29 and yes, programming in RISC assembly languages is fun 00:54:37 It is fun 00:55:00 Quadrescence: yes. and the initial learning stage is where you think it is all magic and great. 00:55:01 But it's not easy or productive to write software in it 00:55:11 There's learning what DEFUN, PROGN, COND, etc are, then there's realizing what lisp enables you to do and how it allows an abstract virtually no other language provides. 00:55:13 It's much better to write a compiler first 00:55:26 schmrkc: I am much much beyond the initial learning stage. 00:55:35 Quadrescence: ok, bro. 00:55:48 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:57:54 craiggles: anyway. I'd recommend learning CL. it's good stuff. 00:58:11 alright, thanks schmrkc 00:58:25 If you do lisp enough, I assert you think on much higher orders of abstraction. And if your brain thinks on high orders of abstraction, then it is painful to *intentionally* dumb yourself down to be able to write what you want to in a language that doesn't let you program your intent. 00:59:23 It's not that it's hard, it just feels like you're being a human compiler in some cases, and fighting against the language in some other cases 00:59:33 lisp is like taking warm play and molding it into the crevices a problem provides. C/etc is like taking solid concrete and molding it into the same thing. 00:59:35 Quadrescence: you recognize a good C programmer by the fact that he first checks if a higher-level language doesn't fit the bill :) 00:59:43 craiggles: Just don't get all born again. 00:59:48 p_l|home: absolutely 00:59:56 schmrkc, sorry can you define what you mean. 01:00:06 craiggles: like "born again christian". 01:00:10 p_l|home: That is NOT unfortunately what's going on in the world 01:00:12 p_l|home: C is sometimes the right answer, but in most cases, it's not. 01:00:12 craiggles: but in a programming context. 01:00:18 craiggles: I believe it was reference to born again christian fundies 01:00:28 indeed it was. 01:00:43 p_l|home: There is a huge amount of FOSS software written in C that has no reason to be written in C 01:00:57 HUGE amount. 01:01:10 And it shows by the lack of robustness or the primitiveness. 01:01:21 one of the most painful things is that im just getting used to programmers dvorak as well so im typing code dog slow :) 01:01:46 craiggles: I've been wanting to try dvorak for some time 01:02:05 im really enjoying it 01:02:26 my wpm, obviously hates me. 01:02:37 For how long have you been doing it? 01:02:42 -!- hagman [~hagman@HSI-KBW-085-216-093-236.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: hagman] 01:02:43 dvorak? 01:02:45 yes 01:02:48 craiggles: That is what programming in C/etc is like. Programming dog slow. Not being able to program at mind's speed, but the slow speed the language makes you think at. Anyway I guess I better go be a "LISP radical" to some C# buddies 01:02:50 just under a week now. 01:03:00 -!- kanru [~kanru@114-45-232-142.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:03:23 Quadrescence: Please tell me, what do people see in stuff like Java? 01:03:33 my wpm record is now 58 though :D 01:03:56 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:04:06 drdo: They see an opportunity to program a customer database for a company managed by someone ignorant to good programming in order to make a little bit money 01:04:20 i think i should be focusing on accuracy rather than speed though as my accuracy is always bad like 95% 01:04:47 Quadrescence: I mean, i find it painful to program in and some people think it's very nice 01:04:56 s/some people/a lot of people/ 01:05:05 drdo: C programmers think it's super nice when they came from ASM 01:05:08 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:05:15 But they look up at C++/Java and see a bunch of extra garbage 01:05:27 Here we go, PG wisdom 01:05:41 oh yeah, blub paradox :S 01:06:31 drdo: The reason people find it very nice is probably because they're wired differently, and the java world works a lot better for them and the become more productive. 01:06:34 When you're programming in lisp, if you look up, you see lisp again with a feature you don't have, but luckily, lisp always has a rung to the level above. ;D 01:06:36 drdo: like lisp for you. 01:06:53 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 01:07:32 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:34 Quadrescence: I'm actually writing a half-assed implementation of something similar to Kernel 01:07:41 To play with 01:08:23 drdo: hehe 01:08:55 righto, time to turn tv off and perhaps read some pcl 01:09:39 Now think off when you've been doing some long prolog sessions. then you go to lisp 01:09:52 and you're pretty much "wtf.. no backtracking. how did I ever survive this.." 01:10:10 so it's the same any direction you go. 01:11:48 schmrkc: Extensibility is the most important language feature for me 01:12:33 drdo: Right. Which is nothing unique to lisp. 01:13:16 schmrkc: which other language allows for syntactic abstraction? 01:13:22 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 01:13:23 drdo: It's great that you find lisp pleasent. But thinking that it will change the mindset of everyone who learns it is madness. 01:13:48 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-239.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:13:50 *schmrkc* shrugs 01:13:52 forth for starters 01:13:56 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:13 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 01:15:17 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:15:48 hmm after reading some pcl ill look into networking for irc bot/site scrapers, theyre always fun 01:15:50 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-107-139.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:16:37 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 01:17:27 dfox_ [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 01:19:49 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-239.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:25:53 craiggles: maybe a new evalbot for #lisp :D 01:26:33 schmrkc, heh i highly doubt it as im the newest to lisp here :) (well unless someone just joined, heh) 01:26:46 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-239.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:27:48 craiggles: I think the last one that was attempted killed itself. 01:28:03 mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:06 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:28:10 im just going to stick to basics at first 01:28:32 of course :) 01:28:52 im sorry but i have to sleep, ill be back in 10 hours or so 01:29:19 what about writting a wraper bot for allegro telnet sessiom (: 01:29:36 s/sessiom/session/ 01:29:55 as i said im not an advanced programmer, that mightnt be hard but it sure sounds it to me. 01:30:35 craiggles: sleep well 01:30:41 cheers. 01:30:46 cheerio 01:30:50 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:32:10 gah, prompt.franz.com is dead :/ 01:32:38 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:35:56 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:08 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 01:39:08 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 01:43:35 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-11-16.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:45:43 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:51:43 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 01:51:58 [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 01:53:27 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-238.wlms-broadband.com] has left #lisp 01:57:46 -!- dfox_ [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:58:02 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-59-114.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:54 sanjoyd [~sanjoy@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 02:00:31 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:01:06 I want to read a lisp expression and evaluate it in some context, i.e. if the user enters (+ x y) I want to be able to compute its value when, say, x = 6 and y = 10 and get 16. What is the Right way to do such a thing in Common Lisp? 02:01:48 (I'd be very happy to get pointed to a topic I can than read up.) 02:01:54 s/than/then/ 02:02:00 use the repl? 02:02:29 schmrkc: huh? I want my program to do that. 02:03:24 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 02:04:12 sanjoyd: what sort of input do you expect? 02:05:15 eval, compile, coerce, compose from closures. 02:05:29 schmrkc: valid lisp expressions. 02:05:54 Zhivago: thanks. 02:08:08 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725217.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:08:09 hermitek [~hermitek@ip-89-102-35-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 02:08:33 Hi all. 02:09:09 hello 02:09:11 what's the nicest way to have a (loop ... collecting) construct and do something special on the last element ? 02:09:48 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:04 finally ... ? 02:10:46 ok. so let's say I'm doing this: (loop ... collecting `(:foo ,bar)) 02:10:58 and I want the last one to be `(:foo bar :last t) 02:11:38 I don't know how I could do that using finally 02:12:22 nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has joined #lisp 02:12:22 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 02:12:22 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 02:12:38 finally collecting? 02:13:30 well, then how does the final one not collect twice? 02:13:38 once for the "normal" collecting and once for the finally. 02:13:51 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:13:55 and the other issue then becomes: I duplicate the code in collecting just to add one keyword 02:14:50 (besides, I don't know how you would "finally collecting") 02:14:56 well maybe just modify the last element then. 02:15:12 yeah, that's what I've been doing so far. I was wondering if there was an elegant way to achieve this 02:16:12 collect into foo, finally modify it. dun get no more elegant ;) 02:16:56 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:06 aight =) 02:18:25 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:19:03 btw, the other option is using a local variable 02:19:44 I can think of a few ugly ways to do it. not sure if they actually work. I'd try if I had a lisp here. :) 02:21:10 *schmrkc* was inclined towards mapping. 02:21:59 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:24:54 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@bas1-guelph22-1177619843.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:25:05 yeah, I'm just doing it with a "with" keyword 02:25:09 and comparing each time. 02:25:43 ASau [~user@95-28-62-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 02:25:50 comparing what? 02:25:52 (loop ... with last-element = 'baz collecting `(:foo ,bar ,(if last-element :last) ... 02:26:01 so, concretely: 02:26:13 aha I see I see 02:26:26 (loop for i in some-list with last = (car (last some-list)) collecting ... 02:26:27 they're all so pretty these solutions :) 02:26:37 I don't know, I find it moderately ugly. =) 02:26:40 like plain jane. 02:26:55 it could be nicer. but I guess it's functional and it is immediately evident what I'm doing so I won't complain 02:26:57 yup. I find 'em all horrid. No disrespect to the one you have :) 02:26:57 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AB4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:27:15 I'm curious as to WHY you want this :) 02:27:23 using HTML-Template 02:27:28 oho 02:27:50 there's no way to do a proper "1, 2, 3" string without ending up with a coma at the end. 02:28:00 I'd use format, but then I'm defeating the purpose of using html-template 02:28:53 this makes me realize that html-template should just have a meta-variable of sorts for beginning and ending of all loops. 02:28:59 that would solve all of this uglieness. 02:29:06 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:29:07 In fact, I think I might just make an extension for that. 02:29:11 If that's the case maybe use the ol' PUSH to make the list, change the first element, and reverse it 02:29:28 I was using that previously. it gets ugly quick... 02:29:38 I wanted a loop. 02:29:44 I feel that. 02:29:50 and the nreverse makes elves cry 02:30:28 =) 02:30:39 alright. thanks for the informal 02:30:41 goodnight. 02:31:02 Shaftoe: happy template 02:31:04 If things are complex, don't use loop :) 02:31:15 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:31:44 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 02:32:07 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725217.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 02:34:39 -!- sellout [~greg@71.175.25.141] has quit [Quit: sellout] 02:36:19 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:38:04 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:48:29 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 02:49:47 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:51:20 gonzojive_ [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:25 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:58:29 sabalaba [~sabalaba@211.101.128.18] has joined #lisp 02:58:33 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:00:06 bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:48 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 03:01:36 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:04:58 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:05:19 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:10 -!- SCVirus [~SCVirus@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:36 SCVirus [~SCVirus@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:59 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:26 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:25:53 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:34:17 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:34:23 -!- bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:35:39 Jasko [~tjasko@pool-96-242-33-71.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:35 -!- chemuduguntar [~user@smtp.touchcut.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:38:58 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:41:42 Good morning everyone! 03:41:51 beach: Good morning. 03:49:38 *p_l|home* wonders if there would be use for something like Pig implemented as macro (just like LOOP) 03:53:15 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:38 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-235-146.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:59:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:55 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:06:51 lemoinem [~swoog@225-87-252-216-static.colba.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:05 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:09:28 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-254-161.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:07 Pig? 04:14:18 adu: it's a DSL usd with Hadoop 04:14:21 *used 04:15:21 while it looks imperative on first look, it actually describes a graph of functional operations (which can be parallelized easily using Map/Reduce) 04:19:46 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 04:19:55 -!- az [~az@p5796C5D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:25:05 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:26:38 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:27:00 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.155.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:27:29 az [~az@p5796CEE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:39 oh, i went to a presentation about Hadoop a week ago 04:27:49 and I think they mentioned pig 04:28:30 They talked about how MongoDB and Hadoop were very good for each other 04:30:08 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.73.213] has joined #lisp 04:30:30 so I learned that Hadoop has something to do with Map/Reduce, but not what it is 04:33:01 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:21 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:36 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@bas1-guelph22-1177619843.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:43:44 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:43:44 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:17 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:44:40 -!- gz [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 04:46:52 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:49:44 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 04:53:51 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 04:57:39 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 04:59:11 So if I have a setf expander for BLA, it is easy to define the corresponding function (defun (setf BLA) (new ...) (setf (BLA ...) new)), but what if I already have the function, and I want to define the setf expander? 04:59:52 Ideally, it should be something easy with the short form of defsetf. 04:59:58 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-254-161.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:02:34 <_3b> funcall + a lambda to reorder the arguments? 05:03:37 <_3b> actually, i guess you don't even need funcall, since the setf expansion hasn't been defined at that point 05:05:07 <_3b> though i suppose relying on that makes recompilation messier 05:05:24 Why is that? 05:05:33 Oh, I see what you mean. 05:08:38 Well, it looks like the easiest way would be to factor out functions like (setabc x y new) and then say (defun (setf abc) (new x y) (setabc x y new)) and (defsetf abc setabc), but I don't particularly like it because then there seems to be no syntax verification for the setf form. 05:09:30 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:45 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:10:14 what do you mean by syntax verification? 05:10:33 antifuchs: Number of arguments, mostly. 05:11:02 um, argument numbers are checked in a setf form, if I'm not mistaken 05:11:11 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 05:11:17 good morning 05:11:21 hello ost. 05:11:21 <_3b> defining (setf foo) normally then using funcall for the setf expander seems reasonable to me 05:11:32 -!- abugosh [~Adium@64-121-86-146.c3-0.tlg-ubr2.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:11:36 they're defuns like everything else... or are you talking about argument checking at setf expansion time? 05:12:02 antifuchs: If I say (defsetf abc setabc) and then (macroexpand '(setf (abc x y z) hello)) it gladly expand it to (setabc x y z hello). 05:12:12 antifuchs: The latter, yes. 05:12:28 hm, for that you'll need a setf expander, yeah 05:12:41 what do you need that for, by the way? 05:12:44 adu: Hadoop is basically a map/reduce cluster for JVM, with a special distributed filesystem (to manage datasets and probably coordinate code to run, iirc) 05:12:47 I am curious (: 05:12:48 _3b: Yes, but then I can't use the short form of defsetf. The long form may be simple though. 05:13:11 antifuchs: Just part of SICL. I want to give the programmer as good and explicit error messages as possible. 05:13:36 antifuchs: It is also related to CL:DOCUMENTATION. 05:13:42 mmh 05:13:44 ok, makes sense 05:13:59 yeah, long-form defsetf it is 05:14:13 antifuchs: CL:DOCUMENTATION seems to require a distriction between (documentation '(setf bla) 'function) and (documentation 'bla 'setf) 05:14:16 it's pretty simple, actually. the name long-form sounds scary, but it's nothing like define-method-combination (: 05:14:25 antifuchs: Heh! 05:15:27 antifuchs: Yeah, I am sure the long form of defsetf will be less scary after I read the page carefully. 05:15:47 check out the examples. it's very similar to a very convenient defmacro. 05:16:09 antifuchs: OK, thanks for the hint! Will do! 05:16:47 just found . I don't think this makes lisp syntax any easier (-: 05:17:29 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 05:17:54 *beach* agrees with antifuchs 05:19:49 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 05:22:46 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 05:24:22 p_l|home: ya, i knew it had something to do with MapReduce 05:24:32 antifuchs: That's quite terrible 05:24:46 well, it could be worse 05:24:54 but the rules for when to use () and {} make my head spin 05:25:16 p_l|home: but what you just said makes it sound more like a harddrive than what it really is 05:25:28 I honestly don't understand the point of such things, sexps are quite easy to read 05:27:49 it's a fun intellectual exercise (: 05:27:55 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:33:24 Hmm, wait! (defun (setf bla) ...) already seems to define such a setf expander. 05:33:39 ... which seems quite reasonable. 05:34:29 adu: it offers an "environment" to run clustered Map/Reduce operations 05:35:07 Pig was created so that you can easily write the overall operation in simple but effective syntax 05:37:55 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@211.101.128.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:41:06 SBCL seems to define a setf expander for bla whenever a function defined (setf bla) is defined. That would be one way of doing it. Another way would be for the setf macro to check whether (setf bla) is defined whenever there is no setf expander for bla. What are the advantages and disadvantages of each solution (assuming both are conformant, which I haven't checked). 05:41:38 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:42:14 s/a functino defined/a function named/ 05:43:49 "conformant"? I meant "conforming". 05:45:22 <_3b> which 'it' in 'one way of doing it'? 05:46:06 _3b: Making sure that (setf (bla x) y) expands to (funcall #'(setf bla) y x). 05:46:25 <_3b> well, it expands to that whether the function exists or not from what i remember of the spec 05:46:34 <_3b> (assuming no expansion either) 05:46:44 -!- knobo [~user@138.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:47:21 _3b: Oh? I'll look for that in the spec. 05:47:38 <_3b> i wouldn't be surprised if it fell back to that as a default when you ask for an expansion too 05:48:59 _3b: SBCL certainly does. 05:49:02 <_3b> yeah, notes in get-setf-expansion seem to imply that 05:49:27 *beach* checks 05:49:51 Indeed! 05:49:52 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 05:50:17 <_3b> 5.1.2.9 specifies the fallback to calling (setf foo) 05:51:12 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:51:22 _3b: Ah, very nice! Thanks! 05:52:04 ... and this means that if I want errors to be checked, I had better write setf expanders for every accessor. 06:01:22 (setf (cdar 1 2) 2) => invalid number of arguments: 3 This is what I am trying to avoid. 06:02:19 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:03:20 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:07:20 And this: (defun ff (x y) (setf (bla x y) 30)) => caught STYLE-WARNING: The function was called with three arguments, but wants exactly two. 06:08:30 nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:00 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 06:17:48 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:25:25 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 06:26:30 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 06:26:30 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:28:17 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 06:31:32 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:02 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:34:23 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 06:35:47 Taiyou [Nero@bas3-toronto47-1242432703.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:37:25 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:38:05 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.222] has joined #lisp 06:38:57 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:42:10 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:42:23 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:42:47 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:25 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.12.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:53:32 xinming [~hyy@115.221.12.137] has joined #lisp 06:58:15 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 06:59:15 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.12.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:59:58 xinming [~hyy@115.221.12.137] has joined #lisp 07:03:10 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 07:03:25 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 07:04:04 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-vmqatvpsdhjegrps] has joined #lisp 07:07:29 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:10:56 boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:11:14 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 07:11:49 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B3271DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:39 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@109.179.17.116.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 07:14:49 makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 07:15:07 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082A33B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:17:25 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:19:16 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-101.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:35 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-qucjcdvxhlsjalyo] has joined #lisp 07:19:35 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-qucjcdvxhlsjalyo] has quit [Changing host] 07:19:35 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:20:55 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:32:36 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:33:02 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 07:33:58 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:34:50 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 07:35:25 gonzojive_ [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:39 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-239.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:39:43 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:40:01 good morning 07:43:42 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:44:51 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 07:45:37 -!- p_l|home [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:32 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:51:26 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:52:06 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:52:57 hello lispers 07:54:38 I need to close a lisp sbcl machine that is running a swank server, ho do I quit that instance from another sbcl inistance ? 08:01:51 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:02:52 kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:02:55 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:03:21 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-127-74.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:05:35 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:40 -!- makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has left #lisp 08:14:20 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.123.51] has joined #lisp 08:14:27 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:14:59 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-lkulecgxddsttchx] has joined #lisp 08:14:59 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-lkulecgxddsttchx] has quit [Changing host] 08:14:59 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:16:04 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-jhfxtpqitctbyyvf] has joined #lisp 08:16:04 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-jhfxtpqitctbyyvf] has quit [Changing host] 08:16:04 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:16:30 -!- ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16:43 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-9-90.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:17:07 Something like this for better error messages: http://paste.lisp.org/+2IB2 08:17:15 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 08:17:15 hello mvilleneuve, hello kiuma 08:17:45 chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-93-176-141.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:18:07 hi beach 08:18:12 snowing here 08:18:19 where is that? 08:18:28 and lack of snow tires :/ 08:18:32 same for me :) 08:18:36 Milan italy 08:18:41 Wow! 08:18:42 i'm in Trento 08:19:09 how's situation in Trento ? 08:19:09 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:19:35 an hour ago it was +2 degrees where I live, and 0 degrees where i work 08:19:50 roads are just wet 08:19:55 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-39-168.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:19:55 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:20:26 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:36 jdz do you know how could I close a sbcl/swank instance from a shell command ? I'm running it on 127.0.0.1/4005 08:20:56 jdz like here 08:21:19 wow just stopped snowing :D 08:21:36 kiuma: you could try checking what slime is sending to the server, and then issue the same command using netcat or something 08:21:58 splittist [~John@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:22:02 morning 08:22:17 kiuma: i mean, run new slime, and check what protocol message is being sent when you quit 08:22:21 jdz, good idea 08:22:35 http://paste.lisp.org/display/113231 08:22:50 kiuma: or just ask stassats :) 08:23:05 stassats, cool 08:23:09 thanks 08:23:09 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:23:21 figuring how it works is left to the reader 08:23:38 I'll finally be able to start claw as a server :) 08:23:58 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:25:07 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:26:08 -!- nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:26:13 -!- g4k [~halliburt@pool-96-243-246-18.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 08:28:57 -!- jesusabdullah [~jesusabdu@li225-26.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:30:00 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has joined #lisp 08:33:02 hello splittist 08:33:49 Hi beach. Is it snowing where you are? 08:34:07 splittist: No. 08:35:02 splittist: How do you like my improved error messages: http://paste.lisp.org/+2IB2 08:36:12 beach: excellent! 08:36:26 mvilleneuve: Thanks! :) 08:36:55 beach: excellent! (that you don't have snow) 08:37:16 citizen428 [~citizen42@chello213047077012.23.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:37:32 stassats: Not in the coming forecasts either. 08:37:48 beach: Much clearer. The perfectionist in me is wondering about the colons, but can't think of anything better (: 08:38:09 *stassats* can't ride his bicycle because of it 08:38:33 (perhaps 'In _the_ setf expander for') 08:39:19 splittist: Yeah, and perhaps either "in the SETF expander for cddadr" or "in the SETF expander (SETF CDDADR)" 08:39:45 ... The first one probably. 08:40:07 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 08:40:22 *beach* fixing now. 08:41:41 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:42:25 Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has joined #lisp 08:44:31 dfox_ [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 08:44:49 Krystof [~csr21@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:45:10 'morning, lispers :) 08:46:00 ave fe[nl]ix 08:46:09 hi kiuma 08:46:41 morning fe[nl]ix 08:46:56 hi splittist 08:47:51 aceluck [~aceluck@175.138.170.184] has joined #lisp 08:48:02 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:48:10 beach: is it going to work (as a general matter) if you omit the first colon and uncapitalise the 'The' in 'The CDADR'? Then you could omit the next colon, just leaving the third one. (Otherwise different colons are doing different things). 08:50:57 splittist: That will work. I could put a comma at the end of the first line. 08:51:21 splittist: What would you think about that? 08:52:51 jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-40-241.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:52:51 beach: In my opinion, that will work (: 08:52:51 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:53:45 H4ns``` [~user@p579F87EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:45 Done. 08:54:01 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:54:06 *beach* will now vanish in order to prepare his Vietnamese class later today. 08:54:17 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 08:54:57 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoy@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:55:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:56:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:56:50 -!- H4ns`` 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[~quassel@83.222.167.92] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:17:47 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7571e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:13 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 10:23:00 -!- Tasunteld [~jsz@rps312.ovh.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:24:02 Tasunteld [~Partyzant@rps312.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:10 van7hu [~van7hu@113.185.1.35] has joined #lisp 10:27:21 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-176-79.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:29:26 -!- katofiad is now known as k2t0f12d|ZZZ 10:31:28 -!- van7hu [~van7hu@113.185.1.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:23 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu241.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:37:21 -!- konr [~user@187.106.38.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:54 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-239.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:48:32 ost`` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 10:48:32 -!- ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:39 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.222] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:56:41 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:59:21 -!- cataska_ [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:08:06 carlocci [~nes@93.37.211.234] has joined #lisp 11:10:51 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:11:26 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 11:11:42 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 11:12:09 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:13:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 11:15:09 kaemo [~mad5ci@150.254.83.46] has joined #lisp 11:15:47 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:16:01 MaCkeR [~aamod@115.69.248.42] has joined #lisp 11:17:26 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:20:32 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:25:05 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.57.220] has joined #lisp 11:26:17 stdDoubt [~ptiago@a79-169-47-40.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 11:26:35 how to append a #\Newline to a string? 11:28:23 H4ns````` [~user@p579F8587.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:49 (concatenate 'string "original string" (string #\Newline)) 11:31:24 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:31:30 Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:31:35 or (format nil "~A~%" "original string") 11:31:45 -!- H4ns```` [~user@p579F8587.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:32:10 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:32:10 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@pool-96-242-33-71.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:32:37 Jasko [~tjasko@pool-96-242-33-71.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:00 -!- LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@ppp-61-90-9-96.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:34:19 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-40-241.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:35:24 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 11:35:29 morning :) 11:35:35 hello craiggles 11:38:21 I'm trying to use usocket. Is there documentation somewhere what happens if I close a socket but not the stream or what happens if the connection dies and so on? I can't even find an explanation of what things should be done in what order to create a connection. What am I missing here? 11:39:41 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@150.254.83.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:41:06 thanks abeaumont_ 11:41:42 jconrad [~jconrad@host86-179-139-205.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:43:23 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CF40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:44 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:47:09 I am writing a program that redirects the input/output of octave in order to have access to octave functionalities. I am having a problem because I can read the octave header but when the prompt shows up I send a simple calculation like "2+1\n" but my lisp program blocks waiting for the output. Does anyone has any suggestion of what might be happening. is it possible to paste the source code? 11:50:00 ramkrsna_ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-tjoqpmhbtjrnupid] has joined #lisp 11:53:30 stdDoubt: use lisppaste for that 11:53:54 LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@ppp-61-90-9-96.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:54:04 lisppaste: help 11:54:49 damn bot 11:54:52 stdDoubt: you can paste in http://paste.lisp.org/new 11:57:24 I pasted the code 11:58:14 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:02:17 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@70-14-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 12:02:59 stdDoubt: you didn't select any channel it seems... so paste the url 12:03:44 http://paste.lisp.org/display/117044 12:04:41 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.167.92] has joined #lisp 12:07:35 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-179-139-205.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:09:10 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-176-79.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:09:16 -!- bougyman is now known as tj 12:09:23 -!- tj is now known as bougyman 12:10:08 stdDoubt: where does the code stall? 12:10:43 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:10:51 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-167-97.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:11:07 in test function after the line (process-send-input-data process "2+1") 12:11:14 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 12:13:54 stdDoubt: don't see anything obvious wrong... so cannot help. i'm no expert though, maybe someone else can help 12:14:08 thanks anyway 12:16:20 -!- hermitek [~hermitek@ip-89-102-35-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:16:47 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 12:16:49 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 12:16:49 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 12:23:05 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:23:07 -!- stdDoubt [~ptiago@a79-169-47-40.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:24:40 stdDoubt [~ptiago@a79-169-47-40.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 12:24:47 jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-31-194.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:24:57 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:25:02 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:29 -!- dfox_ [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:26:35 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:28:26 -!- njan [~james@freenode/staff/njan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:47 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-59-114.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:31:56 njan [~james@freenode/staff/njan] has joined #lisp 12:40:36 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 12:43:27 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.117] has joined #lisp 12:43:30 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.167.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:47:21 stdDoubt: what if you try flushing/finishing the output to the proc? 12:47:55 how can I flush the output? 12:48:11 stream 12:50:21 what is the return type of process-input? 12:50:49 a string 12:51:32 process input nil and process output a string 12:52:10 stdDoubt: really? But you (PRINC thing (PROCESS-INPUT proc)) 12:52:47 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:53:43 or should it be (format (process-input process) "~%2+1~%") 12:54:37 -!- Athas` is now known as Athas 12:54:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:54:51 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:55:10 stdDoubt: I really have no idea whether this will help, but what if you add a (FINISH-OUTPUT (PROCESS-INPUT proc)) to the end of p-s-i-d? 12:56:37 sellout [~greg@71.175.25.141] has joined #lisp 12:57:11 splittist: perfect :D thanks...flushing the buffers 12:57:27 it works? Yay! 12:58:31 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:26 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-239.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:59:30 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:01:55 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 13:03:09 -!- ramkrsna_ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-tjoqpmhbtjrnupid] has quit [Quit: Quit] 13:03:13 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Quit] 13:07:47 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 13:12:24 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 13:12:50 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-167-97.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:06 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-167-97.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:17:49 abugosh [~Adium@64-121-86-146.c3-0.tlg-ubr2.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:22 huahua2 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#lisp 13:39:25 vmer [4842edf8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.66.237.248] has joined #lisp 13:40:19 if i shadow a variable (lets say x) inside let, is there a way to unshadow it 13:40:41 Bronsa [~bronsa@host229-185-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:41:17 vmer: use a different name? 13:41:25 vmer: you don't shadow it, you bind it. you can't access the outer binding from inside the let. 13:41:32 -!- H4ns````` is now known as H4ns 13:41:48 there's no (global x) or something? 13:41:55 vmer: no. 13:42:03 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:14 vmer: what are you trying to achieve? 13:42:49 im wondering if i can access *load-truename* 13:42:54 before a (load) is called. 13:43:02 if that makes any sense 13:43:26 vmer: there's SYMBOL-VALUE, but it won't help you with *load-truename* 13:43:40 why not? 13:43:57 vmer: before LOAD it will be NIL 13:44:02 oh 13:44:06 vmer: it is bound only when the load is being executed 13:44:22 vmer: what is it you want to do? 13:44:39 collect a list of all the LOADs 13:44:41 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633882.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 13:44:58 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:30 vmer: is your own code calling LOAD? 13:45:57 (load "fib") (load "fac") (load "sqrt") ....... => ("fib" "fac" "sqrt") 13:46:29 vmer: you can write your own function, like my-load, and call that 13:46:52 but what if some else's code loads my code? 13:46:54 vmer: that function will register the file being loaded, and call CL:LOAD 13:47:05 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@109.179.17.116.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Quit: back in a bit] 13:47:06 vmer: there is no portable way to do what you're trying to do. 13:47:23 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:27 merf. thanks 13:47:28 vmer: you can put forms in EVAL-WHEN (:load-toplevel) 13:47:52 when is that evaluated 13:48:06 vmer: when a file is being loaded 13:48:21 vmer: and possible some other times, too 13:48:50 enupten [~neptune@117.254.157.197] has joined #lisp 13:49:02 vmer: what exactly is it that you're trying to do? 13:50:16 -!- abugosh [~Adium@64-121-86-146.c3-0.tlg-ubr2.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:51:48 -!- vmer [4842edf8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.66.237.248] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:51:48 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-8-127.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:51:48 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:51:48 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-vmqatvpsdhjegrps] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:51:48 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.12.137] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:51:48 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:51:48 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:51:48 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:51:48 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1B2F.versanet.de] 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zbigniew [~zb@li177-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:53:10 -!- fgump [~gump@cpat001.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:53:10 vmer: what is "./code"? 13:53:10 is there an easy way to prevent slime from scrolling to the bottom of the buffer when a prompt is printed? as i often want to examine output while a function is being evaluated, the automatic scrolling is rather annoying. 13:53:11 it runs tests on fib, fac, and sqrt 13:53:33 vmer: (eval-when (:load-toplevel) ...) should be good. 13:54:09 argiopeweb [~elliot@user-0c6shpq.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:54:11 i do (eval-when (:load-toplevel) (format t "WHEN!~%")) but i never see the message 13:56:00 eval-when (:load-toplevel :execute) 13:56:01 interesting. 13:56:35 try (load (compile-file "your-test.lisp")) 13:56:37 vmer: or compile the file first 13:56:52 vmer: i think if you load the file uncompiled, it is :execute 13:57:56 ok. i see WHEN! when i do (load (compile-file "code")) but not when i do ./code.lisp 13:58:13 H4ns: for me slime keeps the prompt visible only if the cursor is at the prompt, if you move it somewhere else, it stays there 13:58:15 what do you mean by "do ./code.lisp" 13:58:29 jdz: hrm. might be a local customization, thanks! 13:58:32 i run ./code.lisp in terminal 13:58:38 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu241.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:58:52 vmer: which implementation are you using? 13:58:58 clisp 13:59:03 i think 13:59:47 vmer: did you try (eval-when (:load-toplevel :execute) ...) ? 14:00:14 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:00:19 :execute does the job, but when i do (load "code") from another file it runs then too 14:00:24 -!- devinus [~devinus@ps23102.dreamhost.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 14:00:50 vmer: if you want to execute whatever code you want to execute exactly once, you need to take care of that yourself. 14:00:50 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:51 i dont want the tests to run if another lisp code loads it 14:01:04 vmer: but only when what happens? 14:01:14 vmer: then put your tests in the file that is supposed to run the tests when loaded 14:01:22 only when its the only load 14:01:32 -!- cipher [~cipher@c-76-24-16-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:01:41 cipher [~cipher@c-76-24-16-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:06 vmer: ah, now i see what you're getting at. 14:02:21 vmer: there is no way to do it portably. 14:02:34 my ruby says $0 is there same thing in lisp? 14:02:42 vmer: no. 14:02:48 merf 14:02:51 vmer: not portably, that is. 14:02:59 can sbc do it 14:03:02 sbcl* 14:03:08 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-vmqatvpsdhjegrps] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:03:21 vmer: it is best not to try expecting lisp to be somewhat like ruby, only better :) 14:03:35 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:03:40 vmer: sb-ext:*posix-argv* 14:03:46 mm 14:03:51 -!- MaCkeR [~aamod@115.69.248.42] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:04:06 thanks jzd ill try sbcl now 14:04:23 devinus [~devinus@ps23102.dreamhost.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:26 vmer: there should be something similar in clisp as well 14:05:01 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-50-16.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:05:50 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:06:22 -!- ost`` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:06:41 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:06:52 vmer: for some insight on how lispers would go about running unit tests, see http://www.metabang.com/unclog/publisha/asdfandt.html 14:07:01 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:08 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-239.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:07:40 dfkjjkfd_ [~paulh@70-14-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 14:07:42 -!- dfkjjkfd_ [~paulh@70-14-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 14:07:44 vmer: this is not to say that this would be like the right way. loading lisp files is not a very scalable approach, though, as it only works for single-file unit tests. once you have dependencies on libraries, you are in hell. 14:09:09 -!- makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has left #lisp 14:09:32 no sb-ext:*posix-argv* in clisp? 14:09:35 francogrex [~user@109.130.151.91] has joined #lisp 14:09:46 -!- az [~az@p5796CEE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 14:09:48 vmer: sb-ext is sbcl specific 14:09:58 jdz: the problem with slime is that it jumps to the bottom when the evaluation of the current expression is done. That is contrary to usual emacs behaviour, which leaves the point where it is whenever point is not at the end of the buffer. 14:11:07 lichtblau: it does not do it for me... 14:11:24 So you start a test, which takes, say, 20 seconds. You scroll upwards to see the first lines of output, while the test is still printing stuff. All is still fine at that point. But then the 20s are over, and you're suddenly at the bottom again. 14:11:31 lichtblau: maybe because i did ,load instead of something in the repl directly 14:11:32 Anyone knows how to use gdb debugger on a library that is being called by cffi? (using gdb with an executable calling a shared library is possible: you can debug both the exe and the shared library) 14:12:03 francogrex: did your question include the answer? 14:12:42 francogrex: ok, nvm. but have you tried running your lisp with gdb? 14:12:43 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-31-194.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:12:56 jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-29-188.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:47 jdz: i just verified that slime behaves like i described (auto-scrolls to the end when printing the prompt) out of the box. 14:14:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 14:14:36 H4ns: well, i also reloaded my project, and my cursor stayed where it was when the operation finished 14:14:59 jdz: using a comma command or something entered in the repl? 14:15:09 H4ns: comma command 14:15:19 jdz: you see, that is not what i'm talking about. 14:15:26 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has joined #lisp 14:15:39 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:15:45 abugosh [~Adium@64-121-86-146.c3-0.tlg-ubr2.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:47 jdz: with a comma command, slime does not print a prompt at the end of whatever, so it does not scroll./ 14:16:05 H4ns: what do you mean by "does not print a prompt"? 14:16:22 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:16:40 jdz: if you enter a comma command, the prompt is printed immediately after you type enter. 14:16:56 az [~az@p5796CEE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:21 H4ns: ok, i see. 14:17:33 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 14:17:35 jdz: I don't know how to do that: run liso with gdb. 14:17:50 lisp 14:18:09 francogrex: have you used gdb before? 14:18:27 on exe files and now on exe calling dlls 14:18:44 but never on an interactive CL session 14:18:53 francogrex: you know your lisp is also an "exe" file, right? 14:18:54 if such thing is at all possible 14:19:16 gdb runs only on exe file compiled with -g directive 14:19:24 wrong 14:19:28 francogrex: you can also attach gdb to running processes, as far as i know 14:19:45 Hun: explain yourself 14:19:48 you can hook gdb on pretty much anything you find. it's just a little harder to poke around. 14:20:22 jdz: even better, there's M-x slime-attach-gdb 14:20:22 you have less function names, no line numbers, no variable names. but you have your registers and your memory. so you can poke around 14:20:52 tcr: omg, the awesomness that is slime! 14:20:55 hey tcr :) 14:21:45 tcr: that's one for the CV " tcr: omg, the awesomness that is slime!" (: 14:22:23 indeed , will have to test it with slime 14:23:53 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:26:03 which lisp implementation, BTW? 14:27:14 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:28:30 ECL and SBCL (if this question was directed to me) 14:29:55 okay. most Lisps I know (at least SBCL and CCL) are compiled with debug information (-g), so I was wondering how you found one that isn't. Perhaps that was ECL then. 14:29:56 14:30:43 linux distributors might well strip debugging information 14:30:59 lichtblau: I didn't test it yet. If it is, so much the better 14:32:33 I am trying to write a setf expander for getf that contains an ignore declaration for teh variable holding the optional default, but I can't get to the place where the declaration should be added, so I came up with this: (let ((,default-var ,default-var)) (declare (ignore ,default-var)) ...). Any better ideas? 14:32:55 *beach* has a feeling that `locally' might be the solution, but he hasn't studied locally. 14:33:08 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.117] has joined #lisp 14:33:25 -!- vmer [4842edf8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.66.237.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:33:30 ok when I try gdb ecl.exe and hit r it runs ECl (expected) but runs it inside gdb (so I can't do prints) 14:34:41 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:34:54 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:57 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@user-0c6shpq.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:09 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:35:17 -!- devinus [~devinus@ps23102.dreamhost.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:37:18 maybe I should try to compile my lisp code into an executable and then run gdb on it. 14:37:24 devinus [~devinus@ps23102.dreamhost.com] has joined #lisp 14:38:32 francogrex: i don't understand what you want to do. 14:40:17 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 14:40:57 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 14:41:33 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:42:15 Hun: here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117049 14:42:38 I want to debug while running this peice of cffi code that calls the library below 14:43:04 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:32 run your lisp in gdb. set breakpoint on function output. 14:43:46 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:40 beach: I am not sure locally will do what you want - in something like (let ((x 1)) (locally (declare (ignore x)) ...)) then the declaration is free 14:44:42 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 14:45:45 -!- churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:46:16 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:46:26 beach: you can also just refer to the variable; that'll shut most compilers up, and only a sucky compiler wouln't elide the reference away. 14:47:56 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1B2F.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:48:20 how to represent a newline char in a string - For instance the equivalent in c would be the \n e.g.: "a cup\n of tea\n" 14:48:37 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633882.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:49:32 stdDoubt: type a newline. 14:50:15 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:50:19 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.151.91] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:29 or use cl-interpol 14:50:52 or (format nil "foo~%") 14:51:10 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.20] 14:51:27 or even #.(format nil ...) 14:57:22 churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:05 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:58:36 thanks 14:59:42 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 15:00:55 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:01:09 pkhuong_: Hmm, I would think a good compiler would notice that the reference were in a context that was not needed, like (progn var ...). No? 15:01:32 beach: right, but the variable is still used,so you shouldn't get the style warning. 15:02:02 pkhuong_: Oh, I see. 15:02:18 It's an old convention that I've seen in code from the 70's, and I think even Python itself uses the trick in a couple odd places. 15:02:58 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:37 pkhuong_: OK, somehow I don't like it though, because I can imagine a compiler that would then instead warn that there was a form with no side effect which is not last in a progn. 15:04:05 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@218.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:04:22 tfb: That doesn't seem to work (which I am sure is correct) if there is other stuff in between the let and the locally, such as another let. 15:04:53 If I were to write such a style warning, I'd special case this case, because it is such an old convention. 15:05:33 pkhuong_: Interesting how old conventions like that can continue to have an impact much later. 15:06:49 it's one of the few things scheme, early CL and other statically-scoped dialect seem to agree on ;) 15:07:07 :) 15:07:17 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:07:29 -!- citizen428 [~citizen42@chello213047077012.23.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:44 rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-119-164.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 15:07:56 hm... (list nil ($stuff)) seems like a weird thing to do 15:07:56 beach: it shouldn't work anyway: in (let ((x 1)) (locally (declare (ignore x)))) I'd expect a warning 15:08:48 fe[nl]ix: Do you set the git description file directly on the cl.net repository, or is there some way to set it locally and have it upload when you commit? 15:11:46 Another question. In macros such as pushnew, I detect (at macro-expansion time) error situations such as :test and :test-not both given simultaneously. Currently, I signal an error, but that might be a little bit too tough. What should I do instead? Signal a warning perhaps and then generate code that, when executed, signals an error? 15:12:34 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:13:01 Also, if I do that, how do I use lisp-unit to check the warning is signaled at compile-time (I know how to check that the error is signaled at runtime)? 15:13:28 Oh, I guess I could write a test that contains a call to macroexpand. 15:14:03 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:14:13 beach: that, or (apply (compile ...) ...) or even (eval ...) 15:14:22 tfb: I see, yes. Probably some simplification the compiler did before checking? 15:14:41 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 15:14:44 pmd: Right, same idea! Thanks! 15:16:26 beach: compile-time warning and runtime error seems right. 15:16:40 pkhuong_: Thanks! 15:17:01 the code might be unreachable... 15:17:33 lisp-unit has an assert-error, but it is vague on whether it can be used on conditions other than subclasses of error. 15:17:56 I guess I could try and see. 15:18:21 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-101.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:19:54 beach: about setf expansion of getf: isn't the default used in (incf (getf ...) ...), i.e. when the reader form is needed? 15:21:33 -!- katesmith is now known as thundernlighteni 15:22:15 -!- thundernlighteni [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23:05 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:05 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:23:05 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 15:23:15 pmd: Don't think so: "When a getf form is used as a setf place, any default which is supplied is evaluated according to normal left-to-right evaluation rules, but its value is ignored." 15:23:20 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:32 beach: ok, we're talking about the writer form. well, you can just put ,default-form at the beginning of your prog/let/whatever without binding its results to anything 15:28:10 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.137.25.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:28:50 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:29:21 kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.181] has joined #lisp 15:29:21 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.181] has quit [Changing host] 15:29:21 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:29:23 oh wait, now i see what you're talking about: you must give away all variables you're going to need, so you must really declare-ignore it 15:30:49 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:30:50 i don't find it problematic to shadow the binding to then declare-ignore it, it's probably the only portable way of doing it 15:33:02 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:35 rstandy` [~rastandy@net-93-144-227-75.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 15:36:28 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-119-164.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:36:34 beach: do you think things like this should work? (push (values v1 v2) (values l1 l2)) 15:38:37 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7571e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:23 I think it should, but it's not specified to 15:47:24 i often want something like (setf (values (incf v1) v2) (values x y)) 15:48:52 pmd: I agree (that it's the only portable way). 15:49:04 pmd: I don't know (whether it should work). 15:51:34 Another question: Now I have a form (pushnew ... :test x :test-not y), and I want to test (using lisp-unit) that it signals a warning at macro-expansion time, which I can do with (assert-error 'warning ...), but I also want to check that at runtime it signals an error, and then I don't want to see the warning when I run the tests. How do I avoid seeing that warning when doing (assert-error 'error (pushnew .. :test x :test-not y))? 15:52:35 beach: put it into an anonymous function, and compile that? 15:52:41 beach: and then call? 15:52:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:53:39 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:14 kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:54:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:55:38 jdz: I will still see the warning when I compile that function won't I? 15:56:06 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:56:06 beach: but you put that in the assert in step before, can't you? 15:56:07 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:56:18 beach: where you test for the warning 15:57:28 jdz: I am not sure how to do that. Currently I have (assert-error 'warning (macroexpand-1 '(pushnew ..))) and then (assert-error 'error (pushnew ...)) so the second assert is not related to the first. 15:57:36 But perhaps I am doing that wrong. 15:57:43 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:25 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.123.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:58:36 jdz: I think I see what you mean. Let me see if I can work it out. 15:59:28 (handler-bind ((warning #'muffle-warning)) (compile nil '(lambda () (/ x 0)))) 16:00:07 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 16:05:06 beach: something like: (let (code) (assert-error 'warning (setf code (compile ...))) (assert-error 'error (funcall code))) 16:08:30 http://paste.lisp.org/+2IBG 16:08:43 jdz: Yeah, something similar. 16:10:48 jdz: (compile ..) didn't seem to work because compile apparently catches the warnings itself. 16:12:07 stassats: Yeah, that's an idea too. 16:12:13 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 16:12:22 beach: btw, are other symbols (like list, warning, eval, lambda) from sicl? 16:12:50 beach: you can (compile nil `(lambda ...)) 16:13:07 jdz: No, just the ones from the particular module in question. In this case, list, but not the others. 16:13:29 pmd: I tried that, but compile seems to catch the warnings, so lisp-unit doesn't see them. 16:14:01 beach: where does it do that? 16:14:02 beach: it catches the warnings and returns them, you can then check them 16:14:27 beach: sorry, it only tells if there were warnings... 16:15:15 OK, I'll go and try a few more things. 16:15:34 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:46 beach: but `compile' is supposed to signal warnings still, isn't it? i mean, that's how SLIME does it, right? 16:16:17 *why SLIME can show compiler warnings and errors 16:16:40 slime doesn't use COMPILE 16:16:48 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:20:56 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:22:11 Is it possible to set the package and maybe load system(s) when running lisp in orb-babel, maybe from the header? 16:23:36 what is this org-babel? 16:23:43 aurelien [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has joined #lisp 16:24:57 ,o/ 16:25:07 stassats: Part of org-mode (emacs application), http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/index.php 16:25:07 :o no bot ? 16:26:16 hm...the clhs says mapcan is like mapcar but with nconc instead of list...I don't understand this. (mapcan (lambda (x) (* x x)) '(1 2 3)) yields 9 obviously with mapcar you get (1 4 9). 16:26:21 LiamH: i'm not really interested in figuring out how it does work 16:27:20 does mapcan somehow only make sense on nested lists or somethign? 16:28:23 hey folks, shortly i'll be uploading a 9 minute lisp game development screencast 16:28:51 LiamH: do you mean set package based on what (in-package says)? 16:29:03 then look at slime-find-buffer-package-function 16:29:12 (it's a variable) 16:29:54 stassats: I mean to set the package within an #+BEGIN_SRC lisp ... #+END_SRC code block. 16:29:55 -!- sellout [~greg@71.175.25.141] has quit [Quit: sellout] 16:30:32 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:31:37 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.117] has joined #lisp 16:31:37 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:53 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.117] has joined #lisp 16:31:59 dto1: the org-babel one? 16:32:07 luis: yes. 16:32:23 it's very introductory, part 2 will show more block stuff happening. 16:34:18 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:38:04 cYmen: it makes not for nested lists, but when your function returns a list 16:38:35 "makes sense" 16:39:45 What am I doing wrong here: http://paste.lisp.org/+2IBJ ? When I run the test I get a "compilation unit aborted, 1 fatal ERROR ...", but when I run the individual forms, manually, it works well (without the asserts). 16:40:24 pmd: I don't know. 16:40:54 beach: is that because asserts fail? 16:41:14 stassats: No lisp-unit says both tests pass. 16:41:16 beach: did you try (lisp-unit:use-debugger) ? 16:41:30 LiamH: No, I don't know what that is. 16:42:11 beach: Do that, then rerun your full test that was showing the error. You should get an ordinary debugger environment. 16:42:30 LiamH: OK, I'll try it. Thanks! 16:43:34 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.66.207.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:50 rstandy`` [~rastandy@net-93-144-227-75.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 16:43:55 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:31 -!- PuffTheMagic is now known as adora 16:44:57 beach: why do you use macroexpand-1 for testing the warning? what if it will expand into something else in the future? 16:45:00 brandonz [~brandon@c-24-23-169-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:14 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:35 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@net-93-144-227-75.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:37 into something involving adjoin, for example, and it will be the job for adjoin to signal the error 16:45:38 -!- adora is now known as PuffTheMagic 16:46:10 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:13 There is a bug with fuzzy completion if the fuzzy completion buffer is displayed in another frame. 16:47:46 i thing i'm aware of it 16:47:49 think 16:47:59 LiamH: I still don't get it: http://paste.lisp.org/+2IBJ/1 16:48:25 stassats: thanks. 16:48:40 leo2007: but i wasn't going to fix it! 16:48:41 yet 16:49:16 dto1: got a link?: 16:49:23 beach: That's an odd one; caught one fatal error condition and then passed all tests. I've never seen that. 16:49:24 luis: in moments!! 16:50:26 beach: but it seems to be happening during compilation. Can you compile outside of your tests, and then just run the test without the compile? 16:53:36 LiamH, luis http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43IiSvbyIZY 16:54:12 can any one point me to an example of doing pagination using cl-who and hunchentoot 16:54:23 dto1: cool. louder would be nice :) 16:54:35 hmm 16:54:37 there's sound? 16:54:58 maybe i need to fix that. 16:55:16 stassats: What should I do instead? 16:55:28 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:55:38 OK I have sound now 16:55:51 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 16:56:05 stassats: One of the principles I am working with is that the warning should be detected and signaled by the first standard construct that was invoked by the user. 16:57:41 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:57:45 (SB-KERNEL:TWO-ARG-= 2048 #) 16:57:57 that's looking scary :-) 16:58:23 beach: (handler-case (compile nil '(lambda () (/ 0))) (condition (error) error)) that's what causes "compilation unit aborted" 16:58:45 dto1: thanks 16:59:02 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:26 So the unbound-marker is a proper object? Seems to be of class RANDOM-CLASS 16:59:34 beach: is the variable `list' bound? 16:59:42 dto1: your emacs buffer is too small to read 16:59:53 even up in 1080p? 16:59:56 i can 16:59:58 beach: i think that's because of the non-local exit 17:00:06 dto1: trying that now 17:00:38 dto1: fullscreen mode works a bit better 17:00:43 yeah 17:00:47 may be using session objects 17:01:12 lisp-unit should expand into (let ((warned-p)) (handler-bind ((warning (lambda (c) (setf warned-p c)))) (compile nil '(lambda () (/ 0)))) warned-p) instead 17:02:21 beach: so, it's a bug in lisp-unit 17:03:15 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 17:03:50 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:03:50 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:03:59 I really don't get it: http://paste.lisp.org/+2IBJ/2 17:04:43 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-29-188.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04:46 stassats: Trying to understand what you are saying. 17:05:27 beach: with the current expansion using handler-case it ceases execution whenever the warning is signaled 17:05:46 that prompts COMPILE into thinking that something wrong happened 17:07:22 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@70-14-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:07:22 expansion of assert-error, that is 17:07:35 stassats: Your example is catching error. Are you saying someone else is catching warnings as well and turning them into errors? 17:08:00 yes 17:08:10 I see. I'll go look at what assert-error is doing. 17:08:10 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:08:33 dto1: looks nice! 17:08:56 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-57-89.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:06 brb 17:09:20 beach: something in the guts of compile is reporting that failure 17:10:05 beach: but even if it didn't, expanding into handler-case is wrong in general 17:10:11 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:11:32 because it won't handle any subsequent condition code after the first warning was signaled 17:11:46 s/ code/s / 17:13:04 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 17:14:55 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:15:05 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-57-89.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:16:03 stassats: Slow down! I am not sure I follow. OK, so compile reports a warning, which is reasonable. 17:16:19 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:17:08 stassats: Then lisp-unit catches that in a handler-case. And that's what aborts the compilation, so the compilation fails with a fatal error. Right? 17:17:12 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:18 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-45-72.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:17:20 beach: right 17:17:41 Hmm. 17:17:59 -!- dto1 is now known as dto 17:18:28 So lisp-unit should have registered that the warning was signaled, using say handler-bind instead, and then returned and let the copilation continue. 17:18:57 that is right 17:19:11 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:20:01 stassats: Thanks! Let's see if I can find a way around that. 17:20:06 coliv [45bff130@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.191.241.48] has joined #lisp 17:20:28 beach: but it seems to be harmless in your case 17:20:58 stassats: No, because no code is generated, and I want to use the resulting code to call later to make sure an error is signaled at runtime. 17:21:44 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:21:49 assert-error does that because it probably assumes non-continuable errors (not warnings or signaled conditions that are not errors) 17:22:05 beach: ah, right, i forgot 17:22:15 pmd: Possibly, but I see no assert-warning. 17:22:52 it should be renamed into assert-condition and use handler-bind instead 17:23:03 stassats: Yeah, probably. 17:23:13 stassats: Thank you so much for taking all that time to explain this to me. 17:23:21 beach: it would probably be better to have an assert-signal 17:23:36 pmd: Yes, as stassats suggested. 17:24:37 yes :) (assynchronous-messaging and same-thought) 17:24:51 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:18 Hello. 17:25:25 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:27:14 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:28:18 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:29:17 -!- stdDoubt [~ptiago@a79-169-47-40.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:29:50 hello craiggles 17:30:46 stassats: So if I were to do this manually and wrap the compilation in a handler-bind, how do I get the compilation process to continue without reporting the warning? 17:31:19 -!- churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:31:56 okflo [~okflo@91-115-91-98.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:32:24 beach: something like (let ((warned-p)) (handler-bind ((warning (lambda (c) (setf warned-p c) (muffle-warning c)))) (values (compile nil '(lambda () (/ 0))) warned-p))) 17:33:23 There is that muffle-warning again that I don't yet know what it does. 17:33:26 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:34:19 GOT IT! Thanks! 17:34:24 -!- okflo [~okflo@91-115-91-98.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35:12 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:35:23 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-73-208.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:18 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:37:10 dougt2008 [~vtecinc@99-71-90-103.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:17 -!- dougt2008 [~vtecinc@99-71-90-103.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 17:38:45 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:40:29 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 17:40:40 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:43:11 LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@ppp-61-90-16-69.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 17:44:23 -!- abugosh [~Adium@64-121-86-146.c3-0.tlg-ubr2.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:46:08 Final version: http://paste.lisp.org/+2IBJ/3 Thanks to everyone. 17:54:46 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@stu241.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:55:16 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu241.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:33 -!- tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:3472:1d9a:9cbb:3cdb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:00 onteria [~onteria@rrcs-74-62-144-90.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:58:32 aceluck [~aceluck@175.138.170.184] has joined #lisp 17:59:03 phromo [phromo@c-f5cce455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:00:22 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 18:08:17 -!- aceluck [~aceluck@175.138.170.184] has quit [Quit: aceluck] 18:08:20 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:08:21 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 18:14:08 benny [~benny@i577A733D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:15:02 hi all, I had installed a lisp package to use "split-sequence:SPLIT-SEQUENCE" in my code, and now when I recompiled my code after restarting Emacs, it complains that this package cannot be found 18:15:16 I am not sure I remember how I installed this ... I think I used quicklisp :( 18:15:43 does anyone know how I can fix this error? And do I always have to compile again when I reload emacs? 18:17:52 you need to load it each time you want to use it and it's not already loaded 18:18:28 try (asdf:load-system 'split-sequence), butter make an asdf system for your project and specify split-sequence as a dependency 18:19:26 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:20:00 thanks! 18:20:22 nyef: when will we see minion or specbot? 18:20:51 stassats: At some point after I notice that they're gone? 18:21:12 they're gone for the most of the week 18:21:41 or they are going away before i come 18:21:48 stassats: how does one make an asdf system for a project? 18:22:04 stassats: have you got any examples I could look at to understand this ? 18:22:30 yes 18:22:31 stassats: I'll pay attention in a few minutes. 18:22:33 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:59 edlinde: http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html 18:23:13 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.73.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:23:30 thanks! 18:23:37 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.73.213] has joined #lisp 18:25:59 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has joined #lisp 18:26:30 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:37 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:20 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:41 minion: You okay now? 18:28:41 what's up? 18:28:45 Good enough. 18:34:36 hello nyef 18:37:44 Hello beach. 18:38:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:40:26 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:40:51 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-218-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:31 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:00 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:45:10 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:49:12 paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-243.lpa.idec.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:18 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:54:41 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:55:08 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 18:55:33 hermitek [~hermitek@ip-89-102-35-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:55:40 -!- onteria [~onteria@rrcs-74-62-144-90.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ] 18:57:55 -!- rstandy`` [~rastandy@net-93-144-227-75.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:56 onteria [~onteria@rrcs-74-62-144-90.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:07:01 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:36 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-24-23-169-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:37 -!- LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@ppp-61-90-16-69.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:08:38 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:09:40 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:10:18 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:12:18 davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:56 if I create a new class, is there any way to define the behavior for the + function for my class? 19:12:59 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has joined #lisp 19:14:21 davertron: no. 19:14:33 p_l|web [8b8507ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.139.133.7.237] has joined #lisp 19:15:03 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:30 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:15:54 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.131.245] has joined #lisp 19:16:14 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 19:16:53 davetron: you can shadow the symbol if you create a new package, define a generic function, and write a method for objects of your class. However, for '+ and '* specifically, this turns out to be a bad idea because they are used as symbols for other reasons than their function binding. 19:17:27 err, davertron 19:17:41 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 19:18:16 LiamH: ok, i'll just write my one 'classplus' function :) 19:19:01 davertron: good idea. I speak from experience; I struggled with shadowing those two symbols and finally gave up. 19:19:31 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:21:27 LiamH: thanks for the tip 19:21:43 LiamH: I don't know enough about packages at this point to even try 19:22:41 -!- coliv [45bff130@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.191.241.48] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:23:28 abugosh [~Adium@64-121-86-146.c3-0.tlg-ubr2.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:29 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:24:05 davertron: In retrospect it would have been nice if CL designers had thoughtfully made #'+ etc. generic functions years ahead of the invention of CLOS. 19:24:30 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-95-224.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:24:47 but how would it work? 19:25:24 given that + accepts arbitrary number of arguments of arbitrary number type 19:26:26 LiamH: you need to set it directly 19:26:27 stassats: By way of two-arg-+, of course! 19:26:49 stassats: good question, maybe a dyadic generic function +-dyad and then a function calling that with arbitrary number of arguments. 19:27:00 nyef: yes 19:27:13 fe[nl]ix: OK, thanks. 19:27:35 wow, I didn't know until today that associativity of + isn't specified in CL 19:27:57 ... it's not? 19:28:14 clhs 12.1.1.1.1 19:28:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/12_aaaa.htm 19:28:20 nyef: what about type conversion? 19:28:32 I like the "third implementation" idea. 19:28:34 LiamH: :) 19:28:48 Hunh. Neat. 19:29:54 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:31:36 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-87-43.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:33:40 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:34:52 what about curried #'+ that would be specialized? 19:35:21 it's definitely legal :D 19:35:46 accessing hunchentoot's sessions is slow ? 19:36:47 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host229-185-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:37:48 clop2 [~jared@99-23-192-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:59 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:40:27 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-156-0-217.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:20 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-45-72.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:41:20 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 19:42:19 sadeness_ [~zebadaia@74.198.8.59] has joined #lisp 19:44:01 dgd [~upirc@mh-216.246.183-105.pppoe.broadband.dyn.mhtc.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:22 -!- dgd [~upirc@mh-216.246.183-105.pppoe.broadband.dyn.mhtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:46:42 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:45 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:49:45 -!- p_l|web [8b8507ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.139.133.7.237] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:56:39 guys I am trying to run "M-x slime" on my uni machine as it has SLDB and keep getting this error --> http://ideone.com/zAmx8 19:56:46 any ideas how to get around this? 19:57:35 edlinde: either permissions issue or ~/.slime/ doesn't exist 19:57:45 that dir exists 19:57:48 but its empty 19:57:58 what are its permissions? 19:58:44 I given it 777 for now 19:58:48 the .slime dir 19:59:20 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 19:59:46 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:59:50 its trying to create the fasl directory by the looks of it but the permissions are all fine 20:00:01 it should be able to create whatever its trying to :( 20:00:10 can you create it? 20:00:43 yeah lemme try that 20:00:45 one sec 20:00:57 and how old is that slime? 20:01:17 mkdir: Failed to make directory "fasl"; Disc quota exceeded 20:01:20 crap 20:01:35 lemme get rid of some stuff :) 20:06:38 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 20:07:05 stassats: thanks ... slime is up! 20:08:31 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:09:10 nmg [~nick@dsl78-143-224-6.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:10:35 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host86-179-140-109.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:50 -!- abugosh [~Adium@64-121-86-146.c3-0.tlg-ubr2.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:12:35 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-156-0-217.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:12:36 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 20:12:49 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-243.lpa.idec.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 20:16:40 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host86-179-140-198.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:33 tama [~tama@adsl-99-58-236-96.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:15 stassats: I am trying to compile some lisp code on the sldb compiler on the uni server, witth a C-c C-k and it doesn't work 20:18:21 stassats: any ideas why? 20:18:28 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-179-140-109.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:18:28 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 20:18:39 i think because some error occurred 20:18:42 I got emacs 23.2 on my mac 20:18:48 they got 23.1.1 20:19:11 nah it just says C-c C-k is undefined! 20:19:35 uni machine has sldb while I got Clozure on my mac... could that be the reason? 20:20:02 sldb is a debugger 20:20:09 you're thinking sbcl 20:20:16 ah sorry 20:20:19 yes sbcl 20:20:20 my bad 20:20:47 edlinde: in what buffer are you issuing C-c C-k? does it have lisp-mode enabled? 20:20:59 p_l|home [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:21:00 do you have [PACKAGE sbcl] in the modeline? 20:21:22 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-39-51.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:21:23 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:21:31 no 20:21:36 its a .lisp file 20:21:48 so its saying "split-sequence.lisp" 20:22:02 does it have Lisp in the modeline? 20:22:09 yes 20:22:20 that means that you didn't load slime 20:22:30 i am pretty sure i did 20:22:32 and anyway, C-c C-k is a wrong way to load split-sequence 20:22:53 I loaded it with "emacs split-sequence.lisp" 20:23:55 ok I checked... slime is loaded 20:24:08 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:18 this is really weird 20:25:05 I see "File Edit Options Buffers Tools Lisp Help" on the top... but I cannot use my mouse on them 20:25:26 edlinde: You are using the word "load" in two different ways. You /open/ a file in the text editor by doing "emacs split-sequence.lisp". But that's not how you /load/ it into the lisp environment... 20:25:29 edlinde: In a terminal window? 20:25:49 edlinde: it's accessed through F10 20:25:51 rpg: ok whats the right way then? 20:26:09 edlinde: you wouldn't expect emacs foo.c to do the same thing as cc foo.c .... 20:26:11 the right way is (asdf:load-system :split-sequence) 20:26:55 I had tried that earlier on 20:26:58 and it failed 20:27:06 so I thought I had to compile the .lisp file for it first 20:27:11 Although I'm a big proponent of working with lisp code while editing it in emacs, it might be better for you to step back for a minute and just work with the lisp environment and figure out how that works. 20:27:41 rpg: ok I just load in a file usually by saying "C-x C-f" 20:28:00 edlinde: NO. You OPEN the file using C-x C-f. 20:28:01 and then when I want to compile I just say "C-c C-k" and it works fine on my mac 20:28:01 edlinde: you thought wrong 20:28:12 -!- splittist [~John@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Step Back For A Minute] 20:28:16 rpg: no, you FIND 20:28:26 stassats: good point. 20:28:57 ok so once you FIND it, how do you compile it? 20:29:03 you edit it and then? 20:29:36 edlinde: are you sure you have the common lisp up and running? 20:29:48 yes 20:30:01 this is the uni machine so I am sure its working fine 20:30:46 edlinde: Do you have a *slime-repl* buffer? 20:30:57 yes 20:31:10 *slime-repl sbcl* 20:31:44 are there other emacs commands to compile? 20:31:51 this is frustrating 20:32:24 If you are in the split-sequence.lisp buffer, isn't there a SLIME menu? Can'd you do "SLIME > Compilation > Compile/Load File"? 20:33:12 rpg: I don't have emacs in Xwindows or anything ... its still in the terminal window 20:33:17 *rpg* has no idea if this makes any sense at all --- I don't know what happens if you load bits of split-sequence outside ASDF system context. 20:33:18 so I am not sure how I can get to the menus 20:33:32 I managed to load split-sequence with asdf 20:33:36 antgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:39 but now I want to compile my own code 20:33:47 that uses split sequence 20:33:51 but no luck 20:34:06 C-c C-c? 20:34:13 pressing F10 activates my Mac Manu 20:34:15 Menu 20:34:19 edlinde: AFAICT you can do one of two things: (1) get yourself a graphic terminal so you can have the menus as a crutch or (2) print yourself a SLIME cheat-sheet. 20:34:29 onteria: thats undefined too 20:34:38 It's not going to be productive to have us try to teach you all the keystrokes in an emacs mode over IRC. 20:34:43 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:34:46 yeah k 20:34:52 edlinde: you can enable slime-mode by doing M-x slime-mode 20:35:08 rpg: but that's not the problem 20:35:20 wohoo that worked!! 20:35:41 stassats: It enabled it when I gave that command... and now I can do a C-c C-k 20:35:44 will keep that in mind 20:35:50 thanks! 20:35:51 no, don't keep in mind 20:36:04 now to figure out why it's not enabled automatically 20:36:14 ok 20:36:43 i guess because it's enabled and disabled twice 20:37:01 edlinde: what's the value of lisp-mode-hook, use C-h v lisp-mode-hook to check 20:37:07 -!- clop2 [~jared@99-23-192-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:37:08 ok 20:38:11 not ok, show it to me! 20:38:18 again for some reason its not liking C-h 20:38:22 :( 20:38:31 that's terminal for you 20:38:40 hmmm 20:38:41 -!- k2t0f12d|ZZZ is now known as takodiaf 20:38:44 edlinde: use M-x describe-variable RET lisp-mode-hook instead 20:39:27 lisp-mode-hook is a variable defined in `lisp-mode.el'. 20:39:28 Its value is 20:39:28 ((lambda nil 20:39:28 (add-hook 'font-lock-extend-region-functions 'slime-extend-region-for-font-lock t t)) 20:39:29 slime-lisp-mode-hook semantic-default-elisp-setup) 20:39:31 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:39:47 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:11 -!- takodiaf is now known as dafokiat 20:41:13 -!- dafokiat is now known as katofiad 20:41:57 edlinde: now, does M-: (rassoc 'slime-mode auto-mode-alist) return anything? 20:42:52 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:59 in CL, a value like 0.0 is a single-float. is there a way to force it to be a double? 20:43:10 clhs *r-d-f-f* 20:43:10 *READ-DEFAULT-FLOAT-FORMAT*: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_rd_def.htm 20:43:18 or just write 0d0 20:44:08 stassats: is it Atl + "-" ? 20:44:43 edlinde: it's Alt plus : 20:44:55 trigen- [MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 20:45:12 returns nil 20:45:31 should this be setup in .emacs? 20:45:51 no, it's the right return value 20:45:55 ok 20:45:59 can you try to open some other .lisp file? 20:46:23 I don't have any other on the machine 20:46:24 sorry 20:46:56 i have an ingenious solution for this---create one 20:47:22 ok I loaded split-sequence.lisp 20:47:29 now? 20:48:07 hack and be merry 20:48:47 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host86-147-29-130.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:21 edlinde: the days of the dumb terminal are pretty much over, AFAIK. Any reason you need to do this stuff in a dumb terminal? 20:49:41 let me guess, ssh 20:49:41 edlinde: Can't you work locally and then push your work over to the uni? 20:50:00 there is another ingenious solution: swank over ssh 20:50:22 i want to test my code on sblc 20:50:27 I don't have that on my mac 20:50:27 stassats: isn't that pretty much an advanced topic for someone who's just wrestling with the basics? 20:50:31 use clozure 20:50:33 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-179-140-198.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:50:33 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 20:50:45 edlinde: You could get it for your mac. I have SBCL, ACL, CCL and ABCL on mine. 20:50:50 edlinde: what is the problem with running sbcl locally? 20:51:07 I haven't had the time to install it.... 20:51:10 :) 20:51:16 I don't ever, ever, ever use emacs in a dumb terminal for anything beyond composing a commit message. 20:51:20 plus I think I got to build it from source yeah? 20:51:30 no 20:51:31 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:33 edlinde: No. just dl it from sbcl.org 20:51:58 also I am worried that it took me a while to get slime, emacs and CCL working together 20:52:01 edlinde: the past bit of misery should convince you that working locally will make you a lot happier. 20:52:26 rpg: I have developed the code locally.. .I am just compiling it remotely 20:52:31 edlinde: ABCL comes compiled. 20:52:37 then do some test runs 20:53:43 ABCL is something else isn't it? I mean its not SBCL? 20:53:54 yes, abcl runs on Java 20:54:03 true, but it's also common lisp 20:54:16 so, in a way, they're not different. 20:54:44 unless you want to use sbcl for performance reasons 20:54:50 i do 20:55:12 my prof wants me to check my runtimes on SBCL 20:55:24 he thinks it might be faster that what I get on Clozure 20:55:35 http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html 20:55:38 the excercise is as silly as it was last month. 20:56:14 I was on that site and I didn't find a DMG for mac 20:56:33 rpg: did you mean there was a package I can directly install for SBCL? 20:56:45 edlinde: download a tarball instead 20:57:01 edlinde: what stassats said... dl a tarball and just unpack it somewhere. 20:57:13 I downloaded the source.tar.bz2 20:57:20 sigh... 20:57:25 that's the only one you shouldn't. 20:57:31 ok 20:57:45 you need sbcl to build sbcl 20:58:17 but you don't need to build it! 20:58:32 edlinde: Are you on this page? http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html 20:58:44 grab the appropriate darwin version depending on your processor 20:58:58 -!- trigen- [MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [] 20:59:07 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:00:22 ok got it 21:01:00 x86-darwin-binary 21:02:38 are there links that explain how to get slime and emacs integrated with sbcl? 21:03:55 "shake but not stir" 21:04:00 clop2 [~jared@99-23-192-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:01 edlinde: It should be pretty much the same as for CCL. I'll lisppaste a stanza... 21:07:13 http://paste.lisp.org/display/117065 21:07:37 MayateSandia [~MayateSan@ip72-207-16-14.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:38 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-41-11.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:48 Others probably have better.... I largely stole that from patrick stein... 21:08:32 so something like (defvar sbcl-exe "/Users/edlinde/sbcl/bin/sbcl") should do the trick.... 21:08:56 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-8-127.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:58 Then M-x sbcl should get you sbcl and M-x clozure should get you CCL. 21:09:26 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 21:10:31 ok thanks 21:10:32 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-29-130.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:57 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-58-127.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:32 -!- MayateSandia [~MayateSan@ip72-207-16-14.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 21:23:21 -!- aurelien [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has quit [Quit: be free!] 21:23:41 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:03 PrietoSandia [~MayateSan@ip72-207-16-14.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:09 Tired of negroides? 21:24:16 Sick of their apelike behavior? 21:24:20 Then join our forum 21:24:22 ! 21:24:31 c h i m p o u t . c o m / f o r u m 21:24:37 At chimpout we are not white supremacists 21:24:44 we welcome all non-negroid races! 21:24:47 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 21:24:53 -!- Krystof has set mode +b *!*@ip72-207-16-14.sd.sd.cox.net 21:24:53 -!- PrietoSandia [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has been kicked from #lisp by Krystof (PrietoSandia) 21:25:38 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:26:00 That's an hilarious ad, i laughed, you have to give him that 21:26:03 i wonder why this bot came here 21:26:11 And the name is pretty funny too 21:26:43 drdo: That novelty wears off quite quickly. 21:27:09 (Honestly, they've been spamming that for years.) 21:27:21 I'd never seen that 21:27:40 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:28:15 drdo: trust me (or nyef), it's not funny 21:28:28 make me unseen this 21:30:02 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:30:18 mejja [~chatzilla@c-5bb9e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:33:03 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:36 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:43:03 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:05 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 21:43:10 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:43:25 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 21:45:42 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:50:14 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:07 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:18 sKreeM [~sKreeM@host81-141-59-155.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:25 -!- sKreeM [~sKreeM@host81-141-59-155.wlms-broadband.com] has left #lisp 21:53:26 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:54:35 troussan [~user@mobile-166-137-142-019.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:36 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:55:47 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-237-42.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:40 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 21:56:43 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 21:56:43 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 21:57:10 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:59:03 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-50-16.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:00:01 fatblueduck [~cdepauw@bootes.dreamhost.com] has joined #lisp 22:00:20 drdo: they've been silent lately 22:00:39 but if you search the logs, i guess there would be a lot of it 22:00:49 last year they were aggressively joinspamming hundreds of channels on freenode. 22:01:17 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:21 I think the link they're spamming has a js robot on it that joins irc channels. 22:09:31 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:05 rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:06 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:14:18 why hasn't google been able to sort out spam on groups 22:14:35 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:40 -!- clop2 [~jared@99-23-192-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:18:24 sc0ty [~user@a85-138-126-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 22:19:31 -!- sc0ty [~user@a85-138-126-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:37 spam is an intractable problem? 22:23:18 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:23:19 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:24:05 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:25:12 spam is AI-hard? :p 22:26:40 -!- troussan [~user@mobile-166-137-142-019.mycingular.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:57 Fade: or maybe management doesn't want to waste cpu cycles filtering Usenet 22:27:08 -!- sadeness_ [~zebadaia@74.198.8.59] has left #lisp 22:27:35 Well they don't even need to use AI.. I'd be happy with captcha 22:27:57 captchas on usenet? That'd be... interesting. 22:29:04 SCVirus [~SCVirus@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:45 -!- SCVirus [~SCVirus@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:30:09 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-87-43.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:30:49 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:41 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:11 I didn't know google groups was based on usenet, that makes sense 22:35:07 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7571e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:36 jconrad: they are mailing lists underneath, but Google Groups includes interface to their Usenet archive 22:38:54 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:39:58 jconrad: because you can't sell anti-spam services for Usenet 22:43:17 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:49 urandom__ [~user@p548A2F2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:00 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:53:41 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:55:16 gigamonkey [~user@cpe-76-167-162-97.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:59:38 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:54 (let ((form (read))) (time (reverse form))) SBCL happily reports no consing. I don't understand how that works. Reversing a list without modifying it without consing?... Everything is done on the stack or something like that? 23:00:30 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.131.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:00:38 Hexstream: consing stats are quantised. 23:00:57 Hum. Quant... Quant... I don't think I know that term. 23:01:09 Try (let (x) (time (loop repeat 4096 (setf x (reverse form)))). 23:02:31 0 bytes consed again. 23:02:40 Maybe it was optimized away?... 23:03:00 Damn you, sufficiently smart compiler! 23:03:27 not unless something fundamental changed recently. 23:03:33 Is FORM a list? 23:03:35 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:58 *cons. 23:04:20 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:04:36 Damnit, Pidgin loves to crash when I close a PM window. 23:06:51 where do you draw the line between sufficiently smart compiler and excessively naïve user? 23:09:04 One of them you have to use NLP in order to fix? 23:09:07 I don't. 23:09:37 NLP?... 23:09:46 -!- nmg [~nick@dsl78-143-224-6.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:54 Either Natural Language Programming or Neuro-Linguistic Programming. 23:10:01 The joke works both ways. 23:10:05 minion: what does NLP stand for? 23:10:06 Nonconsistorial Lomatinous Paradental 23:10:07 Oh. 23:10:11 -!- gz [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 23:10:14 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:10:50 Basically, the user can, in principle, be educated. The compiler would require a bit more work. 23:16:06 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 23:16:38 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:21 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:58 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 23:20:36 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:23:48 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:24:41 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:27:21 ivan4th [~ivan4th@213.141.132.14] has joined #lisp 23:28:15 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-109-230.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:48 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 23:30:58 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-58-127.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32:38 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32:50 -!- gigamonkey [~user@cpe-76-167-162-97.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:33:21 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-57-205.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:33:34 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 23:38:55 -!- phromo [phromo@c-f5cce455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 23:39:31 -!- tama [~tama@adsl-99-58-236-96.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:49 abugosh [~Adium@64-121-86-146.c3-0.tlg-ubr2.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:42:08 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 23:42:48 anyone know of recommended packages for oauth? twitter and facebook specifically. twitter's my priority now but i'll want to do facebook later 23:43:09 both for reasons of wanting twitter more, and knowing from experience facebook plays a little loose with the oauth spec 23:45:08 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-57-205.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:48:16 Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:49:43 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050065011.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:50:53 minion: what does CNS stand for? 23:50:54 Checkbird Needsome Stamineous 23:52:02 In the context of quicklisp, I don't seem to be locating PCL's utilities, in particular the html stuff from chapter 31. 23:55:34 wgl: that isn't aprt of quicklisp 23:55:49 vsync: H4ns used cl-oauth with success, i heard. he did a twitter thing. 23:56:18 xach: So it seems that everyting that was in clbuild is in quicklisp. 23:57:19 wgl: I don't think that's the case entirely. 23:57:20 -!- yan_ [~asym@srtd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:58:38 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-126-174.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:58:48 yan_ [~asym@srtd.org] has joined #lisp