00:01:15 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@115.223.132.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:02:56 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:03:19 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:04 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:09:37 -!- masonium [masonium@dhcp-43-55.EECS.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:11:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:12:23 tama [~tama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:41 -!- d3910584193 [~user@89.100.105.254] has left #lisp 00:14:43 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:15:51 -!- spratt [~spratt@CPE0014bf3f85af-CM00080d79b684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: spratt] 00:19:16 spratt [~user@CPE0014bf3f85af-CM00080d79b684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:45 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:23:50 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 00:30:43 -!- konr [~user@187.106.38.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:02 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:32:28 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:33:20 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 00:33:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:37:13 -!- tama [~tama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:37:41 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:39:15 is there a way to prevent access/modification of the code inside a package but for the exported symbols? 00:40:12 Well, SBCL has "package locks". 00:40:22 There's nothing in the standard to do that, though. 00:40:58 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:42:36 is there some kind of historical reason for the lack of suck functionality? 00:43:00 Probably because of low actual usefulness. 00:43:05 there's a present-day reason, in fact. 00:43:13 If people want to get in trouble by stupidly redefining your symbols, let them. 00:43:34 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:48 What's the usefulness of that? 00:45:14 The usefulness of what? 00:45:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-84.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:46:04 package locks 00:46:46 <`3b> letting you know you used a symbol you might not have intended to 00:47:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:47:46 Well, if it isn't public, you probably shouldn't be using it 00:48:03 <`3b> no, public symbols 00:48:52 <`3b> for example if you :use a package, and later it gains a function with a name you already use for a function, package lock would catch that 00:49:18 Try evaluating (intern "ERROR-EXPECTED" '#:cl) That's one of the things package locks do. 00:49:23 <`3b> (or just defining something without knowing there was something with the same name in a package you :use) 00:51:05 Hexstream: I know what they do, i just don't find it terribly useful 00:51:22 Isn't that what I said? 00:51:33 *`3b* thinks they are reasonably useful 00:52:37 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:05 What do you guys use if you need a GUI (that works on X, windows and os x)? 00:54:22 <`3b> firefox :p 00:54:29 ? 00:54:33 oh 00:54:46 the web application madness revolution 00:54:51 drdo: I hear that a web browser serves tolerably well, although my preferred solution is simply "don't". 00:55:40 I would gladly use gtk2 but it doesn't really work on OS X and i'm currently stuck with using it 00:56:15 "stuck"? Really? 00:57:05 nyef: This macbook is all i have to use for now, and while i do have a linux installation around, the hardware support is not so good 00:57:19 So... VirtualBox? 00:58:05 *Xach* has been very happy with linux-in-virtualbox-on-macbook for quicklisp testing 00:58:10 the Path... 00:58:12 I did try that, i mostly gave up, virtual box is annoying as fuck 00:58:13 drdo: an interesting take would be a specialized "browser" instead of firefox etc. 00:58:34 how is QT on mac these days? 00:58:36 I can understand the combination of "mac hardware" and "not so good hardware support", as I run a hacked linux kernel on my mac, but... 00:58:48 for example, use EQL to build a "host" for the HTML5+JS UI that runs on various platforms, then make it connect to your app 00:59:19 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:18 nyef: It mostly works, but i can't have SMP (or no acpi), monitor brightness only with pommed (and can't change it under X, not with proprietary nvidia drivers anyway, but without them my graphics card doesn't scale doww the freq and stuff and it heats up like fuck, drains battery, etc). And well, just a lot of annoyances 01:03:02 I hear that. 01:03:53 *nyef* checks to see if there's a newish linux kernel out. 01:04:27 It's not too bad using this, i'm in emacs all the time, and when i'm not i'm using chrome or firefox, and that's pretty much it 01:04:45 I hack my kernel to allow me to use both CPUs in this thing and still suspend... and using KMS means that I lose hardware GL, and it also screws up video playback... 01:07:17 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.229.43] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 01:08:35 I'm probably going to buy another laptop soon enough, i discovered this really cool store around here that assembles their own laptops and sells it really cheaply without an OS 01:08:45 Nice! 01:09:34 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:09:43 I'm looking forward to the nvidia settlement. Get some final use out of my dead tablet... Assuming I can scare up a replacement disk, that is... 01:09:59 What settlement? 01:10:17 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CD25.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:10:33 http://www.nvidiasettlement.com/ 01:11:43 Didn't know about that 01:12:04 Essentially, one family of nvidia gpus was built to fail due to thermal cycling, and mine died last February. 01:12:17 Yeah, came as a surprise to me, too. Glad I kept the machine, though. 01:12:43 I'm very probably going to purchase an intel or amd card 01:12:49 (even without knowning about this) 01:14:36 Yeah, well, mind the reported complete suckyness of an intel GMA chipset for anything 3d. 01:15:05 Yes, i'm aware of it, i don't have any high end requirements on that are 01:15:12 *area 01:15:47 Actually, i don't much at all about performance if it's reasonable 01:15:59 Today's machines are really fast 01:17:04 I care a lot more about good laptop construction 01:17:51 I still haven't had a single one that i can say was thought out and well designed 01:18:02 Mmm... Lightweight, several hour battery life, can fit a half-terrabyte of disk or more, and has a decent screen resolution? 01:18:12 They mostly put some shit together, slap some plastic on top ship 01:18:16 *and ship 01:18:46 nyef: no, more like, doesn't break randomly 01:19:00 this macbook for example is quite bad 01:19:25 (it's one of the non-unibody ones) 01:19:33 it's already falling appart 01:19:47 barely a year since i purchased it 01:20:21 Heh. I'm still using a machine I got something like 6-8 years ago. 01:20:45 The backlight failed about a month ago, but I'm /still/ using the machine. 01:20:51 :P 01:21:07 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 01:21:09 I have plenty of hardware around with more than 10 years that works flawlessly 01:21:21 Seriously, I find that if they aren't built to fail, and I don't bang on them excessively, they tend not to break too badly. 01:21:33 -!- bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:21:39 I think i've mostly been picking the wrong laptops 01:22:39 So have I. Every single laptop I've bought new has had problems in Linux. 01:22:52 nyef: Not even that, i mean the actual hardware 01:22:56 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.142.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:23:04 The /best/ case thus far has been the six months it took for my latest to work properly. 01:23:08 It's just so bad i don't even 01:23:18 The tablet took a year before s2ram even pretended to work. 01:23:43 And when i'm looking up laptops to buy one, i think their websites are made purposefully to confuse people 01:23:53 The machine before that, I ended up using coLinux on just to get the hardware going. 01:24:00 -!- Blkt [~user@net-93-151-226-225.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 01:24:31 They have all these different lines with no apparent difference and throw around words such as "creativity" 01:24:37 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.57.143] has joined #lisp 01:24:38 And i have no idea what that is supposed to mean 01:25:44 "Pick one, you lose!" 01:26:04 phao [~phao@189.107.139.244] has joined #lisp 01:26:33 Important laptop system specs: 1. Runs Linux. 2. Not Ugly. 01:26:34 I'd like a laptop that is sturdy, with really good input devices, that's well thought out and doesn't heat up to 100 ºC like some hp one i had 01:26:52 nyef: Ah! They make laptops ugly on purpose now 01:26:56 For some reason 01:27:04 I noticed. 01:27:10 Hi... I've seen some people comparing common lisp to C++ saying that both languages are HUGE and that they "try to solve every problem ever", and they say that this is a bad thing (C++ is a mess IMO, but I never used common lisp -- I'm asking because I wanna learn it). Is that true? 01:27:26 My idea of a good looking laptop is a Black Box that doesn't get in the way 01:27:55 phao: Would your life change in any way if it was true or false? 01:28:17 One of the reasons I bought my last machine was that it Wasn't Ugly. No funky multi-toned textures on the case, no weird beveled panels, no hideous color combinations, et cetera. 01:28:17 From what I heard, the problem with C++ is that it's HUGE, full of dangerous and overlapping sets of features, and if you want to use it successfully you have to restrict yourself to a useful subset. 01:28:20 not one that is shiny, has lit logos on the back, chrome keyboard, with backlight, really weird non-usable multimedia keys, etc 01:28:22 yes 01:28:34 Common Lisp is mostly all useful. 01:28:38 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:41 The drawback? It's high-gloss, which means it shows fingerprints and smudges like hell. 01:29:05 nyef: Do you know any brand that sells good laptops? 01:29:20 And there are no purposely dangerous features that don't actually buy you much. 01:29:23 I really don't know what's happening in that industry, everything is mostly shit 01:29:43 Let us speak of Lisp for Laptops. 01:29:46 I'm running an acer netbook, but... 01:29:52 the m4500 from dell is a nice change, from that. 01:29:57 ... it still has its quirks. 01:30:03 it has an aluminum looking top, not too flashy. 01:30:16 and with an i7 940Xm, it's got power to spare. 01:30:18 I'm planning to avoid Compa^WHP in future, FWIW. 01:30:28 Hexstream, so.. you're saying that the language is big, but it's still congruent? 01:30:37 i got the qosmio i7 18.4", myself. 01:30:46 I mean, it's not a bunch of unrelated features 01:30:46 but i've always liked toshiba's gaming line. 01:30:53 they seem to do the most for the least amount of $$. 01:30:57 18.4", are you serious? 01:31:00 yeah. 01:31:04 The n450-based systems will build SBCL in half an hour, which isn't great, but it's not horrible either. 01:31:05 that's not a laptop 01:31:05 it's a portable desktop, i'm aware. 01:31:10 i keep an X100e for portability 01:31:14 this is for real work. 01:31:19 I don't have the money to spare like that 01:31:25 it's basically at my home office or my work office. 01:31:35 I just want something with at most 14-15" 01:31:41 How about you fine fellows set up a channel for laptop discussion if you can't somehow drag it kicking and screaming lispwards? 01:31:42 At home i just plug a monitor in 01:31:46 the m4500 is a great one, for that, drdo 01:32:03 heh, i plug the monitor in at work (32") 01:32:11 at home I just use the 18.4" from my recliner. 01:32:20 bougyman: They probably don't sell taht here, and if they did, it would probably be expensive 01:32:22 drdo: a friend of mine bought a 20" acer thingie :D 01:32:22 *that 01:32:41 Hum. Seems like we're dealing with people who look at their keyboards to type or something ;P 01:33:08 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.139.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:33:19 fe[nl]ix: haha 01:33:23 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:37 i can see a lot of lisp at 1920x1280. 01:34:09 All i have is a 21" monitor 01:34:33 and can't even use it on this macbook, because they decided i had to spend lots of money on some stupid proprietary cable to use my monitor 01:35:14 drdo: it's most impressive, with "special effects" included: it creaks when you open it 01:36:50 fe[nl]ix: Can you fry stuff on it too? 01:36:57 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.57.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:37:16 no, it doesn't heat up very much 01:37:17 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.57.143] has joined #lisp 01:37:47 since it's so big, there's space for a couple of fans 01:38:10 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 01:41:02 Does it sound like an helicopter is about to land next to you then? :P 01:42:16 no, it's pretty quiet 01:42:34 the big problem with it is that it weighs almost 11Kg 01:43:54 That'd be a deal-breaker for me right there. 01:46:00 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:34 11kg, good back workout 01:49:38 sounds like a win-win 01:49:55 walking with that on your backpack all day 01:50:39 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:50:46 It'd be an utter loss for me, especially with my habits around used bookstores. 01:51:30 hahaha 01:51:40 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 01:52:26 ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 01:53:29 (It's worse when the store has a half-price sale... or a hardcovers-are-$2, paperbacks are $1 sale and they have some good books left.) 02:00:59 LiamH [~healy@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 02:02:52 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:17 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:08:36 preyalone [81aebe7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.126] has joined #lisp 02:09:00 Does Common Lisp have an equivalent to Java's main method? 02:10:50 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:11:04 <`3b> not really 02:12:13 <`3b> (unless 'main' is just a convention in java, not sure if it is part of trhe spec or not) 02:12:30 -!- LiamH [~healy@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:12:35 CLISP keeps calling my read-line expression before the code is compiled, so the user doesn't have a chance to answer properly. 02:13:00 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:13:02 `23b: I'm asking about CLISP specifically, if that helps. 02:14:08 <`3b> not sure what you mean, maybe paste some code to show the problem at the url in the channel topic? 02:14:27 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:35 SLIME does this: Is it a boy or a girl? NIL CL-USER> 02:15:00 I want SLIME to do this: (compile code.......) Is it a boy or a girl? 02:15:32 <`3b> you want it to ask you something when you compile? 02:15:36 SLIME appears to be the problem; I don't have this problem when I load my code directly from CLISP. 02:16:06 `3b: No. I want it compile the code, then evaluate a read-line expression, in that order. 02:16:49 -!- Guest76117 is now known as xristos 02:16:50 I think I will put the read-line expression inside a main function so it stops doing that. 02:17:15 <`3b> yeah, that would probably be easier 02:19:49 -!- preyalone [81aebe7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.126] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:24:19 Why do I keep getting this?: warning: change in instance length of class REC: The most recently compiled length: 10 the most recently loaded length: 11 --> PROGN EVAL-WHEN 02:28:01 drl: Doing what? 02:28:54 schmrkc, Slime C-c C-k 02:29:26 I doesn't happen every time. 02:29:50 on what code?! 02:30:17 My own. 02:30:21 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:32:02 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu201.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:32:25 But ltk is used for the gui. 02:33:34 drl: I have no idea. Why are you getting that? Maybe it is something in your code that is doing it? 02:33:39 wow massive post on the mcclim list 02:33:54 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743]] 02:35:15 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:35:55 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-179-143.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:36:25 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-179-143.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:55 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:41:52 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.61.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:42:10 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.73] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:27 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:01:26 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:01:26 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 03:01:26 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:02:57 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:05:20 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:11 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:08:35 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:08:52 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-179-143.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Gah! What am I doing up this late?!?] 03:08:57 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:28 lemoinem [~swoog@178-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:28 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:10:49 tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.60.117] has joined #lisp 03:16:23 -!- imran_sr [~imran@75-18-254-4.lightspeed.uncyca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:17:47 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:19:16 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:28:59 Quote: "Ok, Lisp is not made for hello world programs. For that you can use C,it's exactly it's domain of application. " 03:33:13 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:33:49 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 03:40:32 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:43:47 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:50:01 rukowen [~thehien@222.253.91.88] has joined #lisp 03:52:22 please anyone help me 03:52:38 I want to get SQRT of 8.7 03:52:59 but (isqrt 8.7) returns error 03:53:10 So, why are you using isqrt? 03:53:47 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:53:49 I've just read on ebook 03:54:15 ah 03:54:21 (sqrt xx) 03:54:29 :-X 03:54:37 =) 03:57:27 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-204-229.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:59:36 How anyone checked out http://duckduckgo.com ? 03:59:53 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-124.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:00:12 Looks quite nice from the searches i've tried 04:03:32 I use ddg for all but my most esoteric searches now. 04:03:50 The !bang syntax is very nice. 04:03:56 *schmrkc* likes ixquick 04:03:59 And I like infinite scrolling. 04:05:20 spratt: i just heard about it now 04:09:39 I heard about it when Gabriel Weinberg wrote an IMadeThis on hacker news a while back 04:09:54 buncito [~user@114.79.55.197] has joined #lisp 04:10:08 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:11:40 -!- az [~az@p4FE4EBD4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:13:59 Read about it on HN right now :P 04:14:34 It deserves all the mentions it can get. =) 04:15:00 Probably going to use it over google from now on 04:15:20 Google has grown more annoying as time as passed 04:15:42 drdo: read what? I'm an HN user. 04:15:44 You don't really have to be exclusive, if you can't find something in a ddg search, just add !google 04:16:03 buncito: drdo just read about duckduckgo.com 04:16:08 What really annoys me about google is the disappearance of the search bar at the bottom. 04:17:06 ahh.. 04:17:26 Zhivago: The thing that annoys me the most is google trying to be smart and redirecting me to Google Portugal and get my results fucking biased 04:18:24 drdo: Does the same with me and Google.ca but not if I use https://google.com 04:18:38 az [~az@p4FE4FFEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:39 www.google.com/webhp :) 04:19:29 spratt: I don't know why they think that's a feature 04:19:43 It annoys pretty much everyone i know 04:20:04 drdo: you may only know an outlying subset of their user base 04:20:32 zhivago: Didn't know about that, not a very memorable url though 04:21:24 *syntard* downloaded ddg addon for firefox 04:22:09 There's an addon? I just added it to my search engines. What does the addon do? 04:22:09 Zhivago: maybe ddg has a search bar on the bottom 04:22:22 No. I don't think so. 04:22:27 syntard: I don't think ddg has a bottom, since it has infinite scrolling 04:22:37 :) 04:22:59 It has a bottom. It just slips. 04:23:10 bottomless page 04:23:49 nop 04:23:59 I got to a point where it had a link "More links" 04:24:10 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:25:12 when I use C++, sometime I write for(int i=0, int j =5; i<10, j<15; i++, i++) .... 04:25:22 I'm wondering whether Lisp has the same idea or not? 04:25:27 drdo: porn search, eh? 04:25:35 clhs loop 04:25:48 no? 04:26:04 minion is on vacation again 04:26:06 blabla bla lispworks, go there, somewhere, or use duckduckgo 04:26:11 rukowen: LOOP is your friend. 04:26:25 rukowen: (dotimes (i 15) ...) 04:26:29 or DO I guess. 04:26:44 rukowen: What are you trying to do? 04:26:47 But usually loop or mapcar, yeah. 04:27:57 drdo: i want to get a value that computed from 2 different 2-dimension array 04:27:59 -!- buncito [~user@114.79.55.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:28:26 rukowen: (loop for i from 0 to 10 for j from 5 to 15 doing (format t "~d ~d~%" i j)) 04:28:41 rukowen: what? 04:28:43 drdo: so i have to get the items of 2 array at the same time 04:29:00 so why do you need 2 variables? 04:29:22 sounds like DOTIMES is what you want 04:29:25 I guess for not having to do (+ 5 i) over and over 04:29:38 schmrkc: So I should NOT use (do ... 04:29:41 I put "!lisp loop" in ddg, and got lispdoc.com page 04:29:55 rukowen: you could use DO. you could use LOOP. doesn't matter. 04:30:02 rukowen: LOOP is so much prettier, that's all. 04:30:17 schmrkc: yes :) 04:30:23 syntard: just tried that too, quite nice, also i didn't know about lispdoc :P 04:30:47 drdo: yeah, me neither 04:31:13 rukowen: You could look into the ACROSS keyword for LOOP. 04:31:32 drdo: so by any way, 2 variables run at the same time is my desire 04:31:37 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:32:01 seems a better option than calculating a +5 offset every iteration. 04:32:56 displacing the second vector sounds like a better option 04:33:23 I'd use LOOP regardless. It's so much cleaner than dotimes. 04:33:55 I'd say dotimes is more readable for something as simple as this 04:34:07 Right. There we disagree. 04:34:50 rukowen: what are you trying to do? 04:35:29 I'm familiar with (do..) because the idea look like C++ 04:36:31 syntard: I want to get a value that computed from 2 arrays at the same time 04:36:56 rukowen: why? 04:37:31 syntard: I want to use this idea: for(int i=0, int j =5; i<10, j<15; i++, i++) as i used to do in C++ 04:37:55 rukowen: but why? what's the goal 04:38:21 2 variables run at the same time, but different index 04:39:24 syntard: I have 2 small arrays stand a big 04:39:53 syntard: I have 2 small arrays based from a big array 04:40:14 I'm puzzled 04:40:26 rukowen: i'm just curious what problem you're working on, at large 04:41:10 syntard: the first array has index from 1->10, and the second from 5->15 04:41:32 rukowen: i know 04:41:36 i just want to visite them at the same time, that's all 04:41:45 rukowen: We understand what you are asking, we are just asking the big picture of what you are doing because there might be a better way that you don't know about 04:43:25 drdo: thank for your attention, my problem is Image Processing 04:44:13 drdo: and I want to compare 2 differnt sub-image 04:45:24 rukowen: you need a yes/no answer at the end? 04:45:41 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:45:52 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.54] has joined #lisp 04:45:57 syntard: yes :) 04:46:54 I think maybe you can create a list of indexes and then run #'every or some such on it 04:47:16 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:47:26 uh 04:47:38 with a lambda! 04:47:43 I 've shown my problem, some suggestion from everyone... 04:47:51 syntard: That's horrible. 04:48:21 schmrkc: but it doesn't use loop or do 04:48:23 my suggestion would be to just displace the second array and use a simple dotimes 04:48:27 rukowen: LOOP with some nice type declarations. That's what I'm saying. 04:48:33 syntard: So? 04:49:02 schmrkc: potentially shorter code 04:50:20 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:50:26 ya because bytes on a harddrive are expensive these days. 04:50:40 schmrkc: I've never use LOOP before, but I'll try 04:50:51 I find it funny how we are debating over something like this and the poor guy just wants to get that stuff done 04:50:56 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:26 rukowen: loop is very imperative looking, you might like it 04:51:39 drdo: what did you mean? 04:51:39 Good morning everyone! 04:51:45 morning beach 04:51:55 *syntard* waves 04:52:03 beach: Someone posted a huuuge message on mcclim mailing list. 04:52:04 beach: chào thy 04:52:19 Chào em. 04:52:25 interesting stuff too 04:52:27 Cha`o anh 04:52:41 schmrkc: just read it too 04:52:48 schmrkc: OK, I'll go look. 04:52:51 rukowen la` ngu+o+`i vie^.t na(m kho^ng? 04:53:09 I thought it would be interesting wrt to clim3 and things. 04:53:11 Fare: úng  04:53:18 sykopomp [~user@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:42 Fare: anh Fare ang  âu? Fr hay Ame? 04:55:42 :O 04:56:19 schmrkc: I agree, it is good! 04:59:06 a 3d clim with one of dem fancy 3d screens + a 3d mouse. that'd be odd. 05:00:32 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:02:26 to^i o+? My~ 05:03:08 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 05:03:17   ; 05:05:12 What's going on here? 05:05:50 People showing off! 05:06:16  05:06:23 Am i doing it right? 05:06:41 *I* am impressed at least! 05:07:31 ... you forgot to define bounds etc. for the sum 05:07:35 ^_- 05:08:44 drdo: schmrkc: (do ((i 0 (1+ i)) (j 5 (1+ j))) ((>= i 6)(>= j 11)) 05:08:45 05:08:45 (print (+ i j)) 05:08:45 ) 05:09:06 drdo: schmrkc: that's what I need 05:09:09 rukowen: Don't do that please. Use lisppaste instead! 05:09:15 rukowen: it's probably not 05:09:17 thanks 05:09:31 Agreed, even in erc that looks pretty bad. 05:09:47 notice one thing, DO has an END test, it STOPS when that expression is TRUE 05:09:50 oh, I'm sorry 05:10:15 rukowen: What are you trying to do? 05:10:26 drdo: they are stop tests 05:10:55 *syntard* ponders 05:11:30 syntard: i guess you might be right, for some reason my brain thought that smelled funny 05:12:19 it's horrible of course, 05:12:38 beach: I'm just trying to loop 2 variables at the same time 05:12:38 rukowen: I know that's waht you need. I'm just saying LOOP is a lot prettier. 05:13:12 oh i know, it's because of the >=, i never understood why people do that, it's not like the variable is going to magically skip over the 6 05:13:18 rukowen: (loop for i from 0 to 10 for j from 5 to 15 doing (print (+ i j))) 05:13:25 rukowen: (loop for x from aa to bb for y from dd to ee ....) 05:13:51 rukowen: why do you need to keep track of the second index? it's a fixed offset from the first 05:14:04 syntard: that's what i said 05:14:04 schmrkc: yes, thank you. And your patience was so great :) 05:14:11 calculating + 5 every iteration seems a shit idea. 05:14:31 drdo: >= because (setf i 1234123) 05:14:34 schmrkc: you can displace the array, which was his initial problem 05:14:50 drdo: I don't see much gain from doing that. 05:14:59 schmrkc: i find it confusing when people write >= in that situation 05:15:09 schmrkc: ah, it's a simple example, it taught me how to use (do ...) 05:15:22 rukowen: Great. Now forget all about it and stick to LOOP like normal people. 05:15:32 *beach* agrees with schmrkc 05:16:11 *syntard* nods 05:16:46 *p_l|uni* waits for the first person that seriously approaches #lisp trying to do normal loops with TAGBODY 05:17:04 schmrkc: haizzz... I'm UNDER normal people. Dont tease me like that hu hu 05:17:40 rukowen: schmrkc is right though. Start trying to use LOOP. 05:17:45 *drdo* thinks TAGBODY is badass 05:17:49 rukowen: doesn't c++ have goto? do consider tagbody 05:19:08 rukowen: Don't consider TAGBODY! 05:19:22 syntard: I'm actually planning a big function that is a giant tagbody... and another I recently read was another. Both are legitimate uses (though I'll admit the one I'm using doesn't need it necessarily...) 05:20:08 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:20:13 p_l|uni: I used to be impressed by big functions. Now I'm impressed by tiny ones. 05:20:29 I'm impressed by big functions, in a negative way 05:20:29 beach: yes, i'll try to use LOOP. That's the reason why I ask #lisp, instead of searching on the Internet 05:20:52 rukowen: Indeed, you did the right thing. 05:21:12 syntard: well, it's legitimately long. Though YMMV regarding whether it's long or not, actually... 05:21:16 p_l|uni: What's that use of tagbody that's legitimate? 05:21:22 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-101-71-212.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:22 drdo: state machine 05:21:25 a concise tagbody is sometimes easier to read than a loop from hell (: 05:21:38 p_l|uni: That was my first thought actually 05:21:39 I'm depressed by big functions. 05:21:40 in this case, a CL version of a bytecode interpreter 05:21:44 especially if I wrote them 05:22:05 I was actually considering writing a macro to decrease the code size, so that I can actually see wtf I am doing 05:22:06 (I've written loops from hell. sometimes they would have been better as tagbodies) 05:22:08 p_l|uni: ah well, then it's really a description rather than a function 05:22:08 p_l|uni: Should maybe write a macro to write state machines for you? 05:22:33 drdo: equivalent of Ragel for CL would be great :) 05:22:35 p_l|uni: You're creepy, get out of my head :( 05:22:42 nyahahahaha 05:23:32 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:01 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:25:11 you can save a lot of indent with tagbodies 05:26:03 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 05:26:08 I'm not saving indent, I'm saving the space used for bit patten matching :) 05:26:24 -!- ismouton [~ismouton@74.193.206.244] has left #lisp 05:26:38 p_l|uni: decrease code size is over rated. Big screen. 3-4 emacs buffer next to each other + follow-mode. 05:26:42 ++ 05:27:01 decreased code size is awesome 05:27:17 also, i use a 13" monitor 05:27:23 aha 05:27:30 then you can only fit like two buffers next to each other :S 05:27:44 7-9 words per function, is my ideal 05:27:50 it's what i do, a vertically split emacs 05:28:00 schmrkc: 1280x800 and no chances of increase 05:28:09 syntard: Maybe you should visit #forth ;) 05:28:23 schmrkc: I have, that's why I think this 05:28:29 p_l|uni: :( ok. develope amazing memory :D 05:29:24 syntard: I find that complicated to really practice.. I'm thinking.. (defun foo (x y) (with-foo .... (let ...)))) that's like 20 right there. 05:29:29 I've seen people write C programs with 300+ lines on main(), now that's badass 05:29:29 schmrkc: it tends to be riddled with trivia and tropes. And writing notes for novels 05:30:06 schmrkc: I'll replace all that with : reader macro 05:30:10 (: 05:30:24 schmrkc: all arguments will have identical names 05:30:24 *schmrkc* goes to find airtravel to france instead then. 05:30:29 arg1, arg2, arg3 05:31:07 *p_l|uni* recommends QPX for airtravel search ^_- 05:31:11 *syntard* will excercise stack discipline 05:31:48 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-101-71-212.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:31:51 When is faster air travel going to be around? 05:32:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:32:42 drdo: when we kill-off USA Green's 05:32:47 *Greens 05:33:04 they killed concord 05:33:07 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:33:17 *p_l|uni* recalls a certain USA poster about not letting Concorde land 05:33:39 It will be interesting indeed when the airplane people will have to start paying the same tax as everyone else does for fuel. 05:33:43 was just now checking out why the hell concorde went out of use 05:34:15 Apparently it was because of a crash on take off totally unrelated to the aircraft itself 05:34:36 But from a falling piece from an aircraft that had just taken off that punctured a tyre 05:35:03 well qpx gave me a better flight than the other site did. 05:35:04 drdo: it was an excuse to scrap 05:35:25 p_l|uni: why would they want that? 05:35:30 schmrkc: also, I doubt there will be the same tax for fuel for airlines, mainly due to other taxes being there 05:36:10 drdo: for various reasons Concorde was more of a symbol than revenue bringing, though it did pay off itself and bring some revenue to BA/AF 05:36:41 fuck revenue, people just want to get to places fast :P 05:36:56 That's not what the people owning the planes want. 05:37:05 SST seems to belong to small crafts, taking small amount of passengers or even less but in comfort 05:37:19 drdo: if they can't pay enough to sustain... 05:37:51 I'm obviously just joking 05:37:59 anyway, a big chunk was the lack of routes I think - USA-Europe was the only common Concorde route I know, and Europe-Japan got scratched due to political issues 05:38:28 unfortunately I've missed my only chance to visit Concorde while it was still operational ;_; 05:38:58 Can't you buy one and fly it yourself? 05:39:00 the only supersonic airplane I've got to sit in was Gripen 05:39:10 Someone should really just make a cool teleportation device 05:39:13 I thought gripen crashed. 05:39:18 like all the time 05:39:32 schmrkc: no flying units left, it would be easier to get a Tu-144 and wrestle Russians to get the new engines for it 05:39:35 schmrkc: untrue 05:39:42 weird. 05:39:54 If you have enough money, you can get people to make you anything 05:39:56 only times it is ever mentioned in the media is when it crashes during some demo. 05:40:31 drdo: The only time media cares about anything nowadays is when they can get some drama out of it 05:41:03 SAAB do seem to be a very profitable company so they must be doing something right. 05:41:07 http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2010/09/broken-washington-201009?printable=true <--- a good example of it, about politics 05:41:20 p_l|uni: it's no secret that the media is full of shit 05:41:30 It's really interesting this media thing. 05:41:42 Just the other week, by random chance, I found out that Sweden is getting a new constitution. 05:41:56 I would have thought this would be a big deal and media would have reported a lot about it. 05:42:02 but not a thing. 05:42:16 I hate my country 05:42:18 and it's quite a big political process to pull this off here too. 05:42:20 schmrkc: it must so good media wasn't interested 05:42:21 schmrkc: Gripen is a very specific fighter designed for Swedish Air Force Doctrine, not for US-style one. It's conceptually closer to certain, special, variants of soviet planes 05:42:34 syntard: It was 150 pages of quite boring text ;) 05:42:48 We're broke as fuck, but for some reason we have the need to host that NATO shit 05:42:57 p_l|uni: All I know is that I'm making money off of it, and no one wants to buy it :) 05:43:00 schmrkc: how much leeway can you really get being a par of EU? 05:43:07 syntard: hmmm? 05:43:15 syntard: What do you mean? 05:43:44 schmrkc: swedent can't be that much different from others 05:43:52 syntard: ?? 05:44:05 schmrkc: actually, there was quite a lot of buyers for Gripen... otoh, don't buy it if USA is contending and just bought some important industry in your country. There are no "US allies", there are only "enemies, already screwed and to be screwed" 05:44:11 schmrkc: oh, ok, you're a patriot, i understand 05:44:12 syntard: What others? 05:44:34 schmrkc: other EU countries! 05:44:51 syntard: Why would they effect the swedish constitution? And what does the EU have to do with the swedish constitution? 05:45:14 Perhaps this is a good time to get the discussion back on Lisp. 05:45:18 yeah 05:46:14 (member 'sweden (countries eu)) 05:46:36 (assert ^ 05:46:52 syntard: Please come back when you have read the EU treaties and understand how this does and does not affect the member countries body of laws. 05:48:03 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:48:09 ain't going nowhere 05:48:17 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:48:20 syntard: I meant come back to this discussion. 05:48:37 Politics 101: Public projects for 10x the real cost so you can buy a private plane and some nice cars 05:48:38 sloanr [~user@75-168-232-24.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:51 Best way to get the conversation back on to lisp is to start talking about lisp, until then we talk about the EU 05:49:22 *beach* Continues the work on the SICL cons-high module. 05:50:40 *syntard* continues figuring out weblocks 05:50:57 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:51:12 syntard: tell me if you can figure out something 05:51:33 drdo: i can 05:51:51 yes. work must be done. clients must be happy. bookkeeping must be done. 05:52:05 (defun do-all-mah-work ...) 05:52:05 -!- mega1 [~quassel@2001:470:1f05:548:215:58ff:fe7d:773b] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:52:08 I tried using weblocks some time ago, wasn't really able to very well 05:52:17 I found the docs quite lacking 05:52:42 drdo: they have auto-generated api docs 05:53:18 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 05:53:25 It has 1131 total symbols and 571 external ones. 05:53:36 I don't care how many symbols it has 05:53:42 I don't even understand how it works 05:53:51 the big picture 05:54:02 and how to actually use it 05:54:46 drdo: one man's trash is another man's dinner. Slava left it behind and we are gathered for the feast. 05:55:32 *syntard* is green with envy 05:56:19 beach: what is cons-high? 05:56:31 drdo: I just pick at it every day, making sure all demos work 05:57:02 syntard: It's probably just easier to write your own :P 05:57:26 drdo: i hope not! 05:59:49 -!- rukowen [~thehien@222.253.91.88] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:01:13 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 06:03:27 Dawgmatix [~dman@203.187.211.68] has joined #lisp 06:04:05 I have a problem, i overengineer a lot 06:04:53 drdo: too many not-yet-needed features? 06:04:57 A lot of times i'm just writing some simple thing and i end up writing a framework for that thing 06:05:35 drdo: Are you a victim of top-down approach? 06:05:48 zhl [~zhangleiz@180.109.19.90] has joined #lisp 06:05:52 syntard: I'm a victim of the bottom-up approach 06:06:23 I had a simple project of a sudoku-like solver for a course 06:06:38 What i end up doing is writing a framework for manipulating sudoku puzzles 06:06:46 drdo: well, bottom-up, you write a little thing, go to the next little thing 06:07:04 and then realise when i'm actually writing the solver, i don't need half of what i wrote 06:07:57 Well, sure, writing the solver itself is really nice thanks to the stuff i wrote before, but i didn't really need to have that work 06:08:28 drdo: I read somewhere, programmer should be ready to throw away everything and move on, so maybe you don't have a problem 06:11:05 mega1 [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:35 -!- sloanr [~user@75-168-232-24.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:11:44 -!- zhl [~zhangleiz@180.109.19.90] has left #lisp 06:19:09 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1279427952.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:20:30 (coffee) 06:24:59 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:25:15 p_l|uni: Anything in the conses dictionary except car, cdr, rplaca and rplacd. 06:25:22 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-93-189-209.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:25:38 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:42 chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-92-28-98.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:30:25 gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:41 buncito [~user@114.79.55.212] has joined #lisp 06:33:46 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:42:13 ah 06:42:17 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:42:31 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: out] 06:44:40 So is ((a b) nil (c d)) an association list or not? 06:45:03 The definition in the glossary suggests that it isn't. 06:46:34 But as far as assoc is concerned, nil is ignored, so one might think it is an association list after all. 06:47:00 Then the question is: what should copy-alist do with a nil element? 06:47:21 And: what should copy-alist do with an element that is neither a cons nor nil? 06:47:22 what can it do? 06:47:49 stassats: If the example above is not an alist, copy-alist could signal an error. 06:48:22 but copy-alist isn't specified to signal errors in that case 06:48:57 stassats: Whenever the CLHS says something like "alist -- an association list" the consequences are undefined if the argument is not of the right type, so it is legitimate to signal an error. 06:49:13 -!- buncito [~user@114.79.55.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49:59 but it says about cons and other objects 06:50:11 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:50:12 stassats: Says what? 06:50:21 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 06:50:35 "The list structure of alist is copied, and the elements of alist which are conses are also copied (as conses only). Any other objects which are referred 06:50:35 to, whether directly or indirectly, by the alist continue to be shared." 06:51:21 stassats: Hmm, I interpreted that to mean "inside the conses". 06:52:14 that's "indirectly" part 06:52:25 stassats: Yeah, OK. Thanks! 06:52:51 *beach* wishes for an annotatable CLHS. 06:53:25 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:39 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:54:32 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:41 only Clozure CL doesn't agree with this 06:55:53 gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:41 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 06:56:45 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-221-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:56:46 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.60.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:57:14 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:57:52 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:53 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:50 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:09:32 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-137-192.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:09:33 stassats: It is always safe not to signal an error becase that is permitted when the "consequences are undefined". 07:10:30 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082B16F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:03 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-137-192.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:02 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082AE16.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:26:28 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:23 clhs loop 07:32:27 what 07:32:28 >:| 07:35:05 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:35:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:35:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:37:34 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:39:46 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:40:48 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:52 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:46:39 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-121-57.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:52:21 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:55:48 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:58:08 -!- SV_Nik [~ngkhatu@99-89-3-67.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:58:29 SV_Nik [~ngkhatu@99-89-3-67.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:14 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-119-114.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: hefner] 08:25:26 rukowen [~thehien@222.253.91.88] has joined #lisp 08:26:10 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-222-218.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:31 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 08:31:35 kiuma [~kiuma@93-36-15-84.ip58.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:33:56 beaumonta [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 08:37:47 What are the alternatives to loop? dotimes, anything else? 08:37:48 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:37:56 PROG 08:38:35 *cYmen* looks it up. 08:40:19 cYmen: That was not entirely serious; alternatives are Iterate (like loop but using parentheses) and Series 08:40:30 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:40:49 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-84-85.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:16 hm...are these extensions? 08:42:10 they're not part of the standard if that is what you mean 08:42:37 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 08:44:05 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 08:45:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.84] has joined #lisp 08:45:48 cYmen: Why are you looking for an alternative to LOOP? 08:46:06 beach: because it's complicated 08:46:17 cYmen: Learn it! 08:46:56 talk to whoever was berating me in here last week about not using loop for complicated things 08:47:07 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47:23 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:42 cYmen: When someone says something like that, you shouldn't automatically believe it, but go figure it out for yourself. 08:47:46 cYmen: Lisp is complicated too, perhaps you should look for an alternative. I hear Java is much less complicated. 08:49:44 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:50:06 -!- beaumonta [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:20 I have two issues with loop. a) It seems like a language of its own that I have to learn. b) It seems very ambiguous maximize/maximizing or below i/upto (1- i). 08:53:05 I have used it a lot by now but I still have to look up all kinds of things. 08:53:23 So use it more 08:53:24 Read other people's code 08:53:51 Fine. 08:54:07 I'm going to play project euler. It seems to be one gigantic loop exercise. 08:57:13 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-119-114.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 08:57:35 cYmen: it *is* a language of its own. 08:57:38 they're called DSLs. 08:57:46 the domain here is 'looping' 08:58:18 although 08:58:26 having more than one way to say something is different from ambiguous. 09:00:40 What is that called then? 09:02:08 "not a bad thing?" 09:02:34 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:02:36 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:02:42 'ambiguous' refers more to when a single thing has multiple different meanings, than when a single meaning has multiple ways to refer to it 09:03:09 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:39 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-36-15-84.ip58.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 09:10:42 cYmen: If you don't want to learn things, you are in a bad shape. 09:10:51 I suggest only using loop for idiomatic cases. 09:13:59 -!- rukowen [~thehien@222.253.91.88] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:15:07 xinming [~hyy@115.223.132.213] has joined #lisp 09:16:41 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 09:22:56 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1279427952.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:26:22 bsod1 [~osa1@88.243.107.170] has joined #lisp 09:30:44 and what to use for non-idiomatic ones? 09:31:29 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:31:42 Something else. 09:32:06 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:12 rukowen [~thehien@222.253.101.28] has joined #lisp 09:32:13 *stassats* chooses LOOP for something else 09:36:09 *GrayMagiker* agrees with stassats. 09:36:28 FWIW 09:37:19 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@218.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:37:57 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 09:38:13 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:38:18 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:39:03 *stassats* creates another half-backed project: cl-openbox for accessing box.net 09:39:31 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@88.243.107.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:39:53 any idea why it takes > 5 seconds here http://paste.pocoo.org/show/293845? 09:40:08 all the systems used have already been dumped in the lisp image. 09:41:17 how long does it take to (find-system :fortuna)? 09:42:22 stassats: 0.6 ms 09:42:37 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 09:42:59 I am using Clozure Common Lisp Version 1.6-RC1-r14432M (DarwinX8664)!. 09:43:04 then i guess it just checks whether the files were changed 09:47:38 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-112-174.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:48:33 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-112-174.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:53 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 09:52:19 stassats: seems so. Thanks. 09:56:22 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757de1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:23 H4ns` [~user@pD4B9E24E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:53 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9E29A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:08:18 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:12:26 chagroy [~chagroy@125.46.10.230] has joined #lisp 10:14:29 urandom__ [~user@p548A37D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:07 What's the way to look for the availability of a certain syscall at runtime with cffi? 10:27:27 cffi:foreign-symbol-pointer 10:27:56 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:29:32 thanks 10:30:04 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 10:32:31 damn, drakma keeps giving me "Internal Server Error" on file uploads, while the same thing from an html form succeeds 10:33:44 kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:34:05 maybe the server expect certain user-agents? 10:34:07 got it, i had to specify :content-length t 10:34:09 lnostdal [~Lars@218.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 10:37:06 ok, now i have to encrypt my files 10:39:03 stassats: Tahoe-LAFS may be of interest, if there are any commercial providers around 10:39:03 Can someone with an experienced eye for lisp spot what I have done wrong here, and tell me how to fix it? http://paste.lisp.org/+2I65 10:39:30 Hi everybody! 10:39:33 you redefined your structure 10:40:26 that's ok, just don't forget to recompile everything using it 10:41:56 Ralith: haven't heard about it, thanks for the pointer 10:42:24 stassats, thanks. 10:42:36 though i currently want to backup just one file, trying to use box.net and some sort of encryption 10:44:04 and i already wrote https://github.com/stassats/cl-openbox 10:45:08 'kay 10:45:12 it's really cool stuff either way though ^^ 10:47:30 -!- rukowen [~thehien@222.253.101.28] has left #lisp 10:49:06 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:49:24 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:49:55 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:47 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 11:04:18 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:04:54 huahua2 [~huahua2@118.124.224.72] has joined #lisp 11:05:36 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@203.187.211.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:08:56 churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:01 sloanr [~user@75-168-232-24.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:50 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.156.99] has joined #lisp 11:22:40 HET2 [~diman@91.105.248.18] has joined #lisp 11:26:01 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.194.110] has joined #lisp 11:29:01 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@218.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:32:10 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:35:46 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:36:18 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 11:38:17 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 11:40:02 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-222-218.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:40:23 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:40:23 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 11:40:58 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:41:47 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-119-114.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:43:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.20] 11:43:52 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 11:45:56 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:46:15 lnostdal [~Lars@218.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:47:12 stassats, lichtblau: I'm going to add Xvfb handling code to CommonQt so that RT testcases & benchmarks can be run without "real" X server. Do you think this belongs to QT or QT-TEST system? Perhaps projects using CommonQt may utilize this functionality too 11:47:52 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-11-46-18.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:48:05 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.156.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:49:32 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu208.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:50:48 cool 11:50:53 (sounds like a testing thing, so qt-test perhaps?) 11:53:03 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:53:26 I was thinking that it's uncommon for some system to depend of testing system of another one. E.g. I don't know if anyone uses CFFI-TESTS system for anything other than testing CFFI itself. BTW, seems like I should rename QT-TEST to QT-TESTS, as the package is already named QT-TESTS... 11:53:32 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:36 s/depend of/depend on/ 11:54:33 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 11:55:13 My idea is to start Xvfb when creating QApplication for testing purposes (if one wasn't created yet) and kill it when lisp process exits. Seems like we shouldn't try to recreate QApplication, so perhaps it's the only way... 11:57:33 I also haven't decided yet whether there should be some implementation-dependent code for running Xvfb or we should add another dependency... (using Qt's own stuff for process control isn't an option as it requires an active QApplication and thus we have chicken and egg problem) 11:57:42 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:10 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:29 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 11:58:36 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:32 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.156.99] has joined #lisp 12:08:57 I'd say additional dependencies (like iolib, for example) just for testing purposes would be OK for qt-test, but undesirable for qt. 12:10:16 Bronsa [~bronsa@host101-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:11:59 -!- sloanr [~user@75-168-232-24.mpls.qwest.net] has left #lisp 12:13:03 I suppose you have ruled out the option of leaving to the user to start Xvfb (perhaps using in a shell script) before starting the Lisp? 12:13:04 After all, when debugging things, you'd want to see the test action on the real screen anyway, so redirection of $DISPLAY on an Xvfb is only an optional step to take. 12:13:55 eugu1 [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 12:17:32 lichtblau: well, we may check for $DISPLAY and start Xvfb if it's not active yet. Or indeed we just may require $DISPLAY to be set (i.e. nothing needs to be changed in this respect) 12:17:55 s/if its' not active yet/if there's no active X server/ 12:19:06 true. I wonder whether there shouldn't be separate test suites qtcore-test and qtgui-test though. 12:19:22 Most CommonQt bugs I have seen so far are easily tested without windows at all, i.e. even in a QCoreApplication. So perhaps a separate test suite could be reserved for those few tests that actually need a window. 12:21:52 *lichtblau* should stop talking and start writing tests 12:21:55 -!- _pw_ [~user@125.34.41.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:22:59 as of now, there's single qt-test system, but it can be split (see stassats' repository) 12:24:06 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:25:42 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:36 -!- churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:32:01 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:39:45 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 12:39:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.20] 12:41:27 kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:41:29 sellout [~greg@64.134.240.185] has joined #lisp 12:46:12 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: reboot] 12:48:45 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 12:49:23 olosomedudepizza [~olosomedu@jesus.roamr.utk.edu] has joined #lisp 12:51:56 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-252-151.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:54:41 jeti [~user@p548EADC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:41 ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:54:45 araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has joined #lisp 12:54:45 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has quit [Changing host] 12:54:45 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:56:59 -!- olosomedudepizza [~olosomedu@jesus.roamr.utk.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:35 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 12:58:56 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 12:59:00 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:01:33 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:02:22 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.156.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:08:09 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: reboot] 13:10:28 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 13:13:30 wakko__ [wakko@shellbox.skidsr.us] has joined #lisp 13:13:33 hello 13:13:42 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:14:09 -!- wakko__ [wakko@shellbox.skidsr.us] has quit [Client Quit] 13:15:04 ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:16:13 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-121-57.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:19:50 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:20:58 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:21:47 makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 13:21:51 ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:25:43 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-8-91.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:25:55 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:26:56 -!- makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has left #lisp 13:28:39 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 13:29:35 -!- chagroy [~chagroy@125.46.10.230] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:30:06 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:31:01 churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:58 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:35:11 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@178-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:36:49 wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d818970.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:51 hiho 13:42:07 udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:42:08 |Wolf| [~x@dyn57-495.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 13:42:44 -!- |Wolf| [~x@dyn57-495.yok.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 13:45:41 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 13:52:29 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:54:49 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:54 how can I test if something is a stream? 14:00:21 wakeup: streamp is one way 14:00:53 why not stream-p? (because thats what I guessed) 14:02:35 wakeup: there's a passage in cltl2 that explains the convention. 14:03:39 wakeup: http://www-prod-gif.supelec.fr/docs/cltl/clm/node69.html 14:03:59 carlocci [~nes@93.37.206.41] has joined #lisp 14:04:18 hrm, duckduckgo found this website, but text should be ok 14:04:48 thx 14:06:03 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-252-151.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 14:09:05 are there good alternatives to tinaa? 14:09:23 is there already a macro that does format's stream behaviour? like nil means output to string, t to *standard-out* and to STREAM? 14:09:56 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:11:29 wakeup: you want to change format behavior? 14:12:05 lemoinem [~swoog@238-84-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:22 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:58 syntard: no 14:13:17 I want similar behaviour 14:13:33 I don't understand 14:13:41 wakeup: no. some output functions have -to-string variations. 14:14:44 guess I have to write my own then 14:15:03 or maybe research more 14:15:58 I just noticed this keyboard doesnt have backticks 14:16:05 wtf 14:16:14 can write macros I guess :D 14:16:33 wakeup: you sure? 14:16:51 check around TAB key (or tilde etc.) 14:17:03 nope 14:17:11 its a pretty tiny notebook 14:17:32 fuckin italians... :D 14:18:28 I think I fond it, buts bound to delete -.- 14:19:06 haha 14:19:18 ok nevermind guys, I suck 14:20:18 h47 [~igor@188.72.99.171] has joined #lisp 14:20:36 so what I actually wanted to ask is if it works like that: (defmacro m (name) `(let (,name) ...)) 14:21:19 with-output-to-string does it somehow 14:22:22 try it 14:24:09 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 14:25:39 -!- dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:27:25 sweeet 14:29:29 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-78-43.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:47 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:15 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.59.162] has joined #lisp 14:37:39 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-252-151.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:39:10 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 14:41:24 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:52 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3FB3.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:46:13 -!- silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1] 14:48:35 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: reboot] 14:50:32 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-91-97.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:51:36 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:54:26 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host101-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:00:53 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-204-229.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:02:17 Blkt [~user@net-93-151-226-225.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 15:07:33 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-204-229.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:07:40 benny [~benny@i577A88A9.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:23 ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:09:54 good day everyone 15:10:46 Blkt: hello 15:12:31 hi 15:14:43 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:15:39 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:19:36 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:55 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:20:51 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:05 is there a way to display all symbols contained in a package? 15:21:14 Blkt: Yes. 15:21:19 in Lisp syntax, not Slime tab 15:21:31 not slime's autocompletion 15:22:05 Blkt: In cases like this, you go to the permuted index, and look under `symbol'. 15:22:47 sounds kinda cryptic... 15:22:50 to me 15:23:03 Blkt: By doing so, you will find that there are macros such as do-all-symbols, do-extrnal-symbols. 15:23:09 Blkt: What is cryptic? 15:23:20 permuted index 15:23:29 Blkt: You have never used one before? 15:23:46 I don't get what it is, I may have used it sometime 15:24:10 <`3b> it indexes by all the words in the name, not just the beginning 15:24:21 Blkt: for names with several words such as a-b-c it lists the entry both under, a, under b, and under c. 15:24:30 aah 15:24:31 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:33 I see 15:24:55 <`3b> and for answer you wouldn't find that way, LOOP can iterate over packages too 15:24:56 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:04 Blkt: So even if the name doesn't *start* with the word `symbol' you will find it in there. 15:25:23 nice 15:25:53 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 15:26:46 Yay, I just finished the total transformation of the SICL cons-high module so that all functions and macros signal specific conditions with the right name of the function or macro reported. Now, I just have to write the remaining docstrings, and out it goes. 15:28:00 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-252-151.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 15:28:11 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-218-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:47 http://paste.lisp.org/+2I6A 15:33:39 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-206-252-168.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:34:05 rukowen [~thehien@123.20.8.169] has joined #lisp 15:34:23 aldebrn [~aldebrn@cpe-76-181-40-168.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:38 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.217.178.97] has joined #lisp 15:36:41 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:39:19 yay 15:42:24 -!- HET2 [~diman@91.105.248.18] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:42:24 hatchetyhatch [~user@24-52-45-203.us.warpdriveonline.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:14 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:46:01 Is there a function to convert an array to a list? 15:46:17 cYmen: COERCE. 15:46:29 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 15:49:06 beach: neat, you subclass type-error 15:49:10 OK, is there one that allows me to rotate an array or list by n places? 15:49:14 syntard: Yes. 15:49:20 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 15:50:06 cYmen: You are welcome. 15:50:20 (loop for elem across arr do ...) 15:51:21 hmm, rotating list is probably very easy with circles 15:51:51 syntard: Yeah, I've been thinking about that. 15:52:02 cYmen: You can concatenate two subseqs. 15:52:26 as far as array, I think it would be great to have MOD indexing 15:52:49 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:53:16 then you'd just displace to it and voila - rotated 15:53:29 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757de1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:32 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:54:42 hm..that's pretty clever 15:56:09 gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:37 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-222-218.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:04 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-59.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:08 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-204-229.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:01:49 -!- xan_ [~xan@70-88-149-185-smc-md.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:01:50 of course you can wrap your index in symbol-macrolet that does the mod calculations for you. no need to invent new array type 16:03:33 -!- az [~az@p4FE4FFEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:04:06 for simple aref cases... 16:04:57 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-59.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:05:04 Of course, all of the non-aref cases might not benefit from gratuitous mods. 16:05:31 yeah... 16:09:21 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-59.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:10:40 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [] 16:10:54 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:16 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:20 -!- huahua2 [~huahua2@118.124.224.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:27 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 16:11:38 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:11:49 az [~az@p5796CF4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:52 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.240.185] has quit [Quit: sellout] 16:12:27 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.1.39.125] has joined #lisp 16:15:43 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:15 -!- aldebrn [~aldebrn@cpe-76-181-40-168.columbus.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 16:20:23 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-141-119.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:43 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:24:05 It would be great if somebody could take a look at this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116868 and point out why it doesn't rotate but just cut of the beginning of lists. 16:24:26 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-213.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:45 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-141-119.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:25:52 cYmen: are you trying to destructively modify your list? 16:25:53 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:10 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 16:26:53 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 16:26:53 beach: Yeah, I wanted to rotate it... 16:26:56 cYmen: For one thing, you are not allowed to do that on constant data. 16:27:29 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@245-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 16:27:33 Constant data meaning ints, strings, such things/ 16:27:33 how can I loop over the symbols defined inside a package, not those :use'd from other packages 16:27:52 cYmen: And things that start with '. 16:28:26 cYmen: As in your test cases. 16:28:46 Damn. So can I somehow fix that or do I have to construct new lists and return those? 16:29:06 cYmen: Just don't use test cases with constant data. 16:29:30 But I want to use it for a list of ints. :) 16:29:55 cYmen: *sigh*, that's not constant data unless it starts with a quote. 16:30:06 Oh. 16:30:10 cYmen: (list 1 2 3) is fine. '(1 2 3) is not. 16:30:15 Sorry, I didn't know that. 16:31:57 Maybe the term you want is 'literal'. 16:32:01 It still doesn't work though. 16:32:17 cYmen: Also, I assume you read the CLHS page for subseq. It always makes a copy. 16:32:21 Blkt: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/06_abag.htm 16:32:23 Seems like I'm doing something fundamentally wrong. 16:32:27 beach: That would explain it. 16:32:37 cYmen: start naively by getting to subseqs and appending them 16:32:41 two 16:32:44 cYmen: That you didn't read the page? 16:32:56 cYmen: Perhaps you want nthcdr instead. 16:33:11 beach: That is exactly what I had been looking for. 16:34:47 syntard: You're probably right I should do that. 16:34:53 But of course now I want to make it work. 16:35:23 beach: Thanks. 16:35:56 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:37:46 konr [~user@187.106.38.106] has joined #lisp 16:38:11 jeti: thanks, that's it 16:38:18 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:34 np 16:38:51 -!- churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:39:10 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0225.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:39:29 cYmen: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116866#1 16:40:19 hmm, wrong paste, heh 16:40:30 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:40:34 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:29 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:43:24 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.217.178.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:44:14 clhs replace 16:44:45 beach: Chào thy! Some time my funtion that used to calculate Cross correlation returns a value that greater than 1 16:45:12 beach: for example: 1.0283396 16:45:53 beach: is it still true? i dont know why .. 16:47:24 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:48:26 rukowen: if your algorithm is correct, then perhaps you're running into floating point overflows 16:49:31 rukowen: by definition, it can be outside of [-1,1] 16:50:35 syntard: looks good, thanks 16:50:47 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 16:51:34 syntard: sometimes it greater than 1, but not much 16:52:44 syntard: thank, I'll check it again 16:53:57 dfox_ [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:56:31 seangrove [~user@208-106-74-97.adsl.shasta.com] has joined #lisp 16:56:38 -!- mega1 [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:57:32 -!- hatchetyhatch [~user@24-52-45-203.us.warpdriveonline.com] has left #lisp 16:57:45 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:53 -!- kleppari [~spa@212.30.204.85] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:01:35 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 17:05:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:06:47 Bronsa [~bronsa@host101-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:06:57 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:07:45 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:07:50 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Client Quit] 17:08:30 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:09:12 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:09:34 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.152.69] has joined #lisp 17:12:27 srolls [~user@c-76-126-221-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:17 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-101-71-212.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:33 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 17:15:34 Hm. Why does nconc not work with nil as a first argument? 17:16:23 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.152.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:16:25 HET2 [~diman@91.105.248.18] has joined #lisp 17:16:50 It does 17:17:07 Let me rephrase. Is there a version that works with an initial arguement of nil or do I have to treat those cases separately. 17:17:45 rukowen: I suspect a bug in your code, especially if you are using double floats. 17:18:04 drdo: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116871 17:18:18 cYmen: works here: (nconc nil (list 1 2)) -> (1 2) 17:18:18 cYmen: There is only one version, and it works with an initial argument of nil, perfectly according to the standard. 17:18:35 beach: yes, i'm checking it 17:18:41 So I have to use the return value in that case? 17:18:49 cYmen: Always! 17:18:54 >_< 17:19:45 -!- HET2 [~diman@91.105.248.18] has quit [Client Quit] 17:21:16 cYmen: Did you really expect your implementation to turn NIL into a a list of 2 elements? 17:22:06 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.59.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:22 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 17:22:58 I did. I wanted to append to an empty list. Doesn't seem so weird to me, sorry. 17:23:45 cYmen: But I assume you know that the empy list is NIL right? So I repeat my question: did you expect your implementation to alter the value of NIL? 17:24:10 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24:43 cYmen: A function could never do what you expected, think about it 17:24:43 cYmen: Do you know any other programming language like C? 17:24:48 I expected it to alter the value in the provided variable from nil to a pointer to the next list.. 17:25:15 cYmen: Try to write a function like NCONC but that does what you expected 17:25:23 cYmen: Like in any other programming language, Lisp evaluates the arguments before passing them to the function. Did you expect Lisp to work differently? 17:25:37 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:00 Alright, alright! 17:27:54 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:28:13 Well, except for languages with pass by reference or call by name or ... 17:28:57 Or lisps with fexprs ... 17:29:26 mega1 [~quassel@2001:470:1f05:548:215:58ff:fe7d:773b] has joined #lisp 17:29:34 Zhivago: Point is, it's not possible to do that with a function in CL 17:32:31 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:03 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.47.187.215] has joined #lisp 17:39:06 K_Sam [~k@119.6.32.132] has joined #lisp 17:41:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.47.187.215] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:14 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:29 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:21 Efthymios [~efthymios@c-98-207-146-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:54 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:53:18 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.175.183] has joined #lisp 17:53:19 trigen [MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 17:54:21 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-213.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:29 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 18:00:26 HET2 [~diman@91.105.248.18] has joined #lisp 18:02:22 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-112-174.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:22 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-112-174.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:23 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 18:02:43 -!- seangrove [~user@208-106-74-97.adsl.shasta.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02:49 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:15 ska`` [~user@ppp-58-8-220-84.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 18:06:38 -!- eugu1 [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:06:46 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.185.10] has joined #lisp 18:07:26 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-91-97.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:08:19 -!- HET2 [~diman@91.105.248.18] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:11:23 -!- rukowen [~thehien@123.20.8.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:11:23 _quack_ [~quack@bl15-118-55.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:11:43 -!- _quack_ [~quack@bl15-118-55.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 18:11:50 when writing a lisp compiler, how should it be made? 18:11:53 as in 18:11:55 err 18:11:56 quack [~quack@bl15-118-55.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:11:58 I worded that wronf 18:12:09 zc00gii: check out Lisp In Small Pieces 18:12:11 how should I make lists? y'know, dynamically sized lists? 18:12:32 zc00gii: normally you make lists out of cons 18:12:45 ooooh 18:12:51 now I finally see why cons is a type 18:12:54 *sigh* 18:13:01 and not a whole list a lone 18:13:09 right 18:13:15 makes sense 18:13:29 zc00gii: a list is just a cons with the cdr pointing to another cons. 18:13:47 I am trying to compile sbcl 1.0.44, but I keep having a CORRUPTION WARNING that leads me inevitably to LDB. I have even downloaded SBCL from the site to compile, but it keeps going to LDB. Has anyone else had this problem? 18:13:59 schme: ah 18:15:06 schme: in CL for example 18:15:20 how are cons terminated? 18:15:20 zc00gii: (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil))) => (1 2 3) 18:15:26 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:29 with a nil I know, but... 18:15:32 (consp nil) --> NIL 18:15:57 zc00gii: schme: come to #lispcafe 18:16:25 jeti: Good thinking. I'll join myself. 18:16:37 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:16:56 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-141-119.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:15 -!- spratt [~user@CPE0014bf3f85af-CM00080d79b684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:36 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-84-85.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:21:53 jmbr [~jmbr@238.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:22:10 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 18:22:41 ciaranb [~ciaran@5acba966.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:19 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:26:38 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-101-71-212.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:29:22 quack: SBCL builds have been very useful to detect failing RAM. 18:29:57 to find out for sure, run memtest from grub. 18:30:18 or download something like the grml linux on a usb-key image and run it from there. 18:30:57 I'll make the test at next boot. Thanks. 18:31:15 -!- quack [~quack@bl15-118-55.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 18:31:38 i wouldn't wait long. :) 18:35:28 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@238.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #lisp 18:36:41 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.175.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:38:40 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1279427952.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:39:15 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:39:55 -!- Blkt [~user@net-93-151-226-225.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:23 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:37 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.191.130] has joined #lisp 18:45:33 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:53:45 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:54:49 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:55:36 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.191.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:25 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:40 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host101-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:05:03 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757de1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:25 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-141-119.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 19:07:20 iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:29 osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:59 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:08:04 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 19:09:11 hello, gentlemen and gentlewomen 19:11:02 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.185.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:34 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:15:53 -!- pchrist_ is now known as pchrist 19:17:52 faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:19:52 hello osoleve 19:31:06 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.59.162] has joined #lisp 19:32:23 -!- K_Sam [~k@119.6.32.132] has left #lisp 19:32:44 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:33:18 seangrove [~user@208-106-74-97.adsl.shasta.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:31 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has joined #lisp 19:42:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:58 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-141-119.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:40 -!- seangrove [~user@208-106-74-97.adsl.shasta.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:11 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:47:14 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:01 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 20:03:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.84] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:45 *osoleve* is away: Gone away for now 20:05:45 Bronsa [~bronsa@host101-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:05:49 Anyway, this has been a very productive day. The code of the SICL cons-high module ispretty much ready to go. I need to write the remaining docstring, though, but that shouldn't take too long, especially since now the definitions of various functions/macros are fresh in my head. 20:07:36 -!- iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:09:04 I don't have 100% coverage of the test (98% or so last time I looked) and I should probably try to get it closer to 100%, but there are some things where I just don't seem to be able to figure out a test that will exercise the code in question. 20:11:00 beach: How do the docstrings differ from CLHS? 20:12:47 pjb: 1. Enough to not violate copyright (I hope). 2. There are no cases where a docstring refers to another: "nset-difference is like set-difference, except..." 20:12:57 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host101-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:14:19 3. I try to make things more explict (with the risk of repeating things). Instead of just saying "x is a list", I try to spell out what the CLHS that it means, namely "the consequences are undefined if x is not a list". 20:14:29 Bronsa [~bronsa@host101-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:16:04 pjb: Does that answer your question? 20:17:44 rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:20:33 *osoleve* is back. 20:23:58 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host101-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:25:55 Wow, i'm watching a speech by Eben Moglen, this guy is quite awesome 20:26:18 is he talking about Lisp? 20:26:41 -!- trigen [MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:26:50 probably not! 20:27:02 trigen [~MSX@81.18.253.210] has joined #lisp 20:27:14 then he's not so awesome 20:28:11 He's talking about something more important 20:28:22 there is no such thing 20:28:30 this better not be gpl 20:28:42 drdo: To #lisp there is nothing more important. 20:29:54 drdo: What is he talking about? How RMS saved lisp and the rest of the known universe? 20:30:11 (yes there are parts of the universe outside of the lisp VM) 20:30:15 schme: I think that's unfair. 20:30:22 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:30:33 beach: How so? 20:31:49 All I've ever heard him talk about is how free software should be the only thing allowed. 20:31:52 schme: You know very well that it's sarcastic. Nobody, not RMS, not anybody else at the FSF has made any such claims. You are just using this argument rhetorically. 20:32:27 beach: Let idiots be idiots. It's not like there's any real way to stop them. 20:32:30 beach: You must not have talked to the same FSF people as I have. 20:32:35 Bronsa [~bronsa@host101-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:32:52 beach: Nothing to be gained by arguing, either. :( 20:33:03 -!- ciaranb [~ciaran@5acba966.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: ciaranb] 20:33:03 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.59.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:33:33 free software ain't good enough, is there software for which i'm paid to use it? 20:33:41 To be fair I don't think beach was arguing 20:33:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-165-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:33:53 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:33:59 he made a reasonable comment, but this will quickly move OT 20:34:02 Guthur: stop metaarguing. 20:34:09 schme: My nephew is a militant vegetarian. I am a meat eater. I think it is great when people have the courage to take a cause that they believe in and push it as far as possible. I don't agree with the message, but I must admire the courage. I do the same with RMS, in fact much more so, because he had lots more to lose than my nephew. 20:34:32 Uh-oh. 20:34:37 lispm [~lispm@f054054002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:34:46 beach: What gave you the impression that I had anything but the highest respect for RMS's work over the years? 20:35:15 schme: Could have fooled me. 20:35:22 i had that impression too 20:35:34 beach: random aside: it is often interesting to see the effect of pointing out the human rights, safety, and sustainability violations of most large vegetable growers to vegetarians. 20:36:07 beach: You must have read something else than what I typed then. 20:36:20 schme: If so, I am sorry. 20:36:32 huh. no reason to be sorry. 20:36:33 be happy. 20:36:36 beach: well, that I can agree. I can agree on believing in ones convictions (most of my scorn for vegeterians/vegans is actually related to people who see it as "magic diet" or don't think through regarding current reality concerning animals...) 20:36:57 schme was joking, we all know that Paul Graham saved the world actually 20:37:02 Even when I was strict vegan I mocked vegans and veganism nonstop. 20:37:21 it feels SO GOOD to use a computer and program again. I can only read PCL for so long before I crave the REPL. 20:37:24 stassats: I laughed a lot :D 20:37:28 My conviction in the realms of CS is that CL is under utilised for it's potential as a software development tool 20:37:45 to bring things back on topic, hehe 20:37:49 Ralith: I have plenty of arguments against what my nephew thinks, but that's beside the point. He has to accept that I don't agree with him, but I can still admire him for having the courage to push the cause. 20:38:02 Guthur: What is this, some programming channel!? 20:38:05 Guthur: that's because of #lisp, surely 20:38:38 *p_l|uni* is heavy on meat and would be first to respond to "don't you care for our small brothers" with "yes, I care, they are tasty with ketchup". But he isn't pro animal cruelty, just realist regarding human organism :D 20:38:45 stassats, Yes #lisp had a great hand in building that conviction, if that is what you mean 20:39:20 hehe certainly wasn't from industry experience 20:39:31 Guthur: Are you saying you came here as a confused noob and #lisp did not scare you away? 'tis an insult to #lisp for sure. 20:39:36 Guthur: i mean #lisp is full of sharks that jump on newcomers, or so they say 20:39:56 stassats, Gruel to be kind I think 20:40:03 stassats: ... sharks don't scare you if you encountered EHs before 20:40:04 jsnanddaaa [~user@c-76-98-204-184.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:04 Cruel 20:40:30 Guthur: Is there any point you feel we could have worked harder at getting you to run away and write a blog post about how shitty the lisp community is? 20:41:07 beach: yeah, I got that; it's just an interesting and often overlooked aside. 20:41:24 schme, Well maybe, I was on the receiving end of some 'insults' 20:41:30 -!- jsnanddaaa [~user@c-76-98-204-184.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:41:33 I wouldn't really call them insults now though 20:41:39 :( 20:41:50 more like 'try again, you are doing it wrong' 20:42:19 I've often wondered about that. Do other #random-language channels spoon feed everyone with complete solutions? 20:42:38 In general probably not 20:42:44 *schme* sees it is weekend-#lisp-talk. 20:43:10 I think other channels may have more people trying to proof themselves 20:43:18 or possibly with nothing better to do 20:43:18 #haskell shows something that looks like complete solution and will execute the code in the channel... then the poor newbie sees fmap fmap fmap and his/her/its head asplodes 20:43:32 oh the evalbot thing :D 20:48:32 a lot of programming channels have an evalbot 20:48:44 evilbot 20:48:46 We had one here for 10 minutes or something iirc. 20:49:04 we also had CONS visualisation bot 20:49:04 hehe, yeah they tend to get abused pretty quick 20:49:19 CL seems to be darned hard to sandbox. 20:49:21 for a bot. 20:49:46 There was one channel that had some Lisp in it's evalbot 20:49:56 #osdev maybe 20:50:03 erbot is elisp 20:53:03 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:56:29 -!- syntard [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:40 -!- konr [~user@187.106.38.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:57:04 syntard [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:34 timor [~timor@port-92-195-228-214.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:01:21 fiveop [~fiveop@178.2.111.102] has joined #lisp 21:04:48 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-213.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:05:58 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442686.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:32 freddie111 [~user@150.140.232.49] has joined #lisp 21:14:37 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:16:10 *osoleve* is away: Gone away for now 21:16:14 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:17:37 I though sb-cga had been added to Quicklisp 21:17:51 thought* 21:18:04 sbt [~sbt@ti0092a340-0756.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:20:32 *osoleve* is back. 21:21:22 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.79.62] has joined #lisp 21:23:49 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:18 -!- lispm [~lispm@f054054002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:16 -!- schme is now known as schmx 21:31:48 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:37:07 -!- dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:28 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:38:49 PCMX [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:09 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 21:39:55 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-121-57.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:40:28 hi Xach, did sb-cga's inclusion to QL get delayed 21:40:31 ? 21:40:37 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:02 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-194-88.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:41:20 Guthur: no. it is in quicklisp now. 21:41:46 the system is sb-cga, correct? 21:42:15 yes. 21:42:35 -!- trigen [~MSX@81.18.253.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:42:37 umm, would it be possible that I am pointing at the a different system repo 21:42:39 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-115-67-85.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:44 I'm definitely not seeing it 21:43:12 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-8-91.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:18 s/at the a/at a 21:43:26 Guthur: what does (ql-dist:all-dists) return? 21:43:56 oh quite old... 21:44:01 (#) 21:44:07 (ql:update-dist "quicklisp") 21:44:11 should do the trick 21:44:59 great, cheers Xach 21:45:07 and also to you 21:45:12 ugh, i can't focus and i only have another hour before i leave again :( 21:45:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-165-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:45:48 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:27 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:46:30 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:46:45 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 21:47:01 trigen [MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 21:47:42 -!- PCMX [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:48:14 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:50:02 PCMX [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:44 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.79.62] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52:56 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:59 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:54:51 danlen-1 [~danlentz@c-68-32-54-29.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:01 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.79.62] has joined #lisp 21:56:20 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.59.162] has joined #lisp 22:02:58 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@245-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:04:01 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 22:06:09 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-112-174.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:09 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-112-174.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:10 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 22:06:52 -!- danlen-1 [~danlentz@c-68-32-54-29.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:08:02 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:08:41 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-133.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:48 *osoleve* is away: Gone away for now 22:12:43 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:10 -!- trigen [MSX@87.209.144.213] has left #lisp 22:15:56 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:16:24 iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:38 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-137-192.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:21:15 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:22:03 trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 22:22:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-165-14.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:22:51 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:23:51 *osoleve* is back. 22:24:21 osoleve: no need to publicly announce 22:24:30 ? 22:24:59 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 22:24:59 -!- freddie111 [~user@150.140.232.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:11 There are 336 people in this room. What's the percentage of them who really need to know when you go away and come back? ;) 22:25:13 osoleve: Your IRC client posts when you /away and return  you should change that. 22:25:14 osoleve: your client announced that you were away and back. 22:25:43 ohhh. anybody know how to change that in konversation? 22:26:00 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:44 xan_ [~xan@70-88-149-185-smc-md.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:23 -!- PCMX [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:34:21 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host101-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:40:43 -!- faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:55 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:41:56 spratt [~user@CPE0014bf3f85af-CM00080d79b684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:47 -!- h47 [~igor@188.72.99.171] has quit [Quit: h47] 22:43:49 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279775076.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:44:15 -!- boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:44:18 *osoleve* is away: Gone away for now 22:45:46 -!- SCVirus [~SCVirus@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:52 osoleve: no, really, please fix that 22:46:52 googling for "konversation away" got me to this page: http://konversation.berlios.de/docs/identity.html wherein the text "Away messages are often considered annoying by other users. Use this option carefully, with consideration for your fellow IRC users" appears 22:47:44 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:48:12 pizdets [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:36 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:52 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:49:45 boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:49:58 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.1.39.125] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 22:51:56 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 22:52:47 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has joined #lisp 22:56:13 =) 22:56:25 ? 22:59:00 PCMX [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:56 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082B16F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:03 daniel [~daniel@p5082B16F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:21 -!- jeti [~user@p548EADC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:43 jeti [~user@p548EADC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:50 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-141-119.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 23:14:27 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.59.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:42 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 23:18:03 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.194.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:33 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1279427952.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:20:07 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 23:22:56 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:22:56 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:26:00 beaumonta [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 23:26:04 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 23:26:26 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1279427952.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:26:34 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:26:36 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 23:27:55 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-121-57.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:31:47 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757de1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:17 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 23:32:22 danlen-1 [~danlentz@c-68-32-54-29.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:10 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 23:35:57 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 23:37:27 mek||malloc [~mek@12.230.222.196] has joined #lisp 23:38:03 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:39 HET2 [~diman@91.105.248.18] has joined #lisp 23:38:55 hi, new to lisp, i am looking for cl's equivalent to java's to String method or python's __str__ 23:39:12 i can't seem to find the right google search 23:39:24 iwillig: Considered using Clojure? 23:39:51 iwillig: http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/strings.html This has a lot of information on strings in cl 23:39:57 iwillig: you want princ-to-string 23:40:16 iwillig: see also: 23:40:23 mmmmm don't like clojure that much... i am looking how to control a class's repl output 23:40:24 clhs print-object 23:40:27 oh 23:40:33 then you want to specialize print-object 23:40:48 great thanks 23:41:02 Would someone be willing to help me understand file IO better? I'm reading PCL and it explains using make-path and with-open-file but I am not sure how to use them (together). My goal is to open a file test.txt in the same directory as my test.lisp and print each line. 23:41:47 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:56 So far I have (make-pathname '(:relative "") :name "test" :type "txt") but I'm not sure how that would be used in conjunction with with-open-file. 23:42:22 Would with-open-file take the make-pathname result as the path? If so, what is provided for the stream? 23:42:45 clhs with-open-file 23:42:54 Hum. 23:42:58 Hexstream: I am reading that and the examples. 23:43:03 mek||malloc: you can pass a literal string. 23:43:10 dead bots are no good :) 23:43:10 -!- danlen-1 [~danlentz@c-68-32-54-29.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:43:27 udzinari`: That's quite annoying lately :/ 23:43:34 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@178.2.111.102] has quit [Quit: humhum] 23:44:22 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:45:02 Ralith: So I would do (with-open-file (myfile "test.txt") ... ) 23:45:59 That seems right. Try it in the REPL?... 23:46:25 Hexstream: Will do. Just trying to understand it first. Thanks again Ralith and Hexstream for the clarification 23:46:34 You could start with something trivial for the body. Perhaps (print (read-line my-stream)) 23:48:11 That seems to work perfectly. Thanks again. 23:48:19 you're welcome 23:49:10 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:51:13 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 23:53:16 davazp [~user@36.Red-79-153-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:13 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:30 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:55:14 -!- davazp [~user@36.Red-79-153-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:39 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:02 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@245-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 23:56:31 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:56:55 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:20 -!- udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:18 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp