00:00:10 was zmacs eine? 00:00:19 I thought that Zwei was Emacs inside? ;) 00:00:33 zwei was eine initially 00:01:27 Fade: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116742 00:01:56 Xach: I don't know for sure. googling seems to suggest that zmacs was the editor and zwei a "collection" of useful routines 00:02:05 sort of a library 00:02:07 jeti: thanks 00:02:12 lichtblau: ^^ 00:02:59 http://jrm-code-project.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/lambda/zwei/ 00:03:09 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1FA8.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:03:53 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 00:04:03 fe[nl]ix: Ah, google has helped me, too. ZWEI is an ancestor of zmacs. 00:04:14 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:14 chemuduguntar [~user@smtp.touchcut.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:46 Hmm, anyone happen to have sbcl-1.0.37 for darwin amd64? 00:06:53 *Xach* checks sourceforge 00:10:26 what's the fastest way to get running with aquamacs/slime/paredit/etc ? 00:10:38 this tutorial seems to be too old: http://lispm.dyndns.org/news?ID=NEWS-2008-08-27-1 00:10:57 for sbcl i mean 00:11:28 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:11:48 install quicklisp and use that to install slime-helper 00:12:01 oh, no lisp yet? 00:13:14 macports, or whatever is popular on OSX these days should net you a running sbcl. 00:13:38 Though it's really not that hard to grab a binary SBCL and the source of the latest and compile yourself. 00:14:05 Fade: i've got sbcl installed and slime helper too 00:14:08 is that all i need? 00:14:45 devinus_: if you want paredit, you have to get and install it too. it has good directions. 00:15:28 So slime helper will install slime ? 00:15:31 (load (expand-file-name "~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el")) 00:15:38 it told me to put that into my .emacs 00:15:53 hrm, am i in emacs question territory here? 00:16:06 setting up slime is in scope. 00:16:11 May I never again have the idea to copy a directory recursively. 00:16:32 ok, how do I test that slime is ... loaded once i use that snippet? 00:16:35 devinus_: you also need to (setq inferior-lisp-program "sbcl") 00:16:41 devinus_: M-x slime 00:16:57 I guess shelling out to cp would be easier. 00:16:57 hrrrm. 00:17:09 probably much better idea too. 00:17:39 w00t! i've got slime 00:17:59 enjoy! 00:19:02 ok, the first thing i notice is SLIME doesnt really act like a readline program 00:19:14 what's the equivalent to using up/down arrows for history? 00:19:17 slime is an IDE 00:19:23 devinus_: M-p and M-n in the slime repl. 00:19:28 nice 00:22:26 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:35 Is there somewhere a comparison (both user-level functionalities, and implementation-wise) of the various emacsen such as Eine, Zwei, Zmacs, Hemlock, etc? 00:22:43 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@88.244.225.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:23:05 Or, are we missing any feature in GNU emacs? 00:23:30 -!- davazp` [~user@36.Red-79-153-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:23:40 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-198-134.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:46 sellout- [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:02 well, the first free can't run for legal reasons. 00:24:28 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:28 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 00:25:38 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:26:20 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-119-212.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:28:06 Really?! 00:28:16 *Xach* wants to add a paredit-helper or similar, or maybe an elisp-goodies project 00:28:28 drewc suggested redshank too 00:31:21 both'd be nice 00:31:37 pjb: there's no copyright assignment for the code afaict. 00:31:52 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:31:53 or it's reserved 00:32:07 Right, Zwei is still licensed (royalty-free) but without copy right. 00:32:26 i'm just reading through the zmacs.lisp file 00:32:36 this is a real soup of casing conventions. 00:32:44 some of it is all upcased, and some of it is mixed. 00:32:57 The sources are -*- base:8 -*- :-) 00:33:02 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.147] has joined #lisp 00:35:35 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:35:44 -!- devinus_ [~devinus@65.107.181.222.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:36:17 that's also mixed, depending on the file. :) 00:37:14 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:37:51 mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:10 Well, one obvious feature, is that emacs lacks the readtable thing -*- readtable:ZL -*- ... 00:38:17 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@72.243.126.114] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:38:39 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:38:42 was that to switch the context of a file between a lispmachine lisp reader and a common lisp reader? 00:38:55 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.222] has joined #lisp 00:40:21 wgl [~wgl@209.242.26.41] has joined #lisp 00:40:26 Yes. 00:40:32 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu191.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:40:45 mail? 00:41:49 there's no load file in this directory. 00:42:37 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:25 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 00:44:53 -!- iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:28 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has quit [Quit: superflit] 00:45:35 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.85.238] has joined #lisp 00:47:06 kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has joined #lisp 00:48:36 sellout- [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:51 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48:51 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 00:50:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@124.65.136.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:50:52 Hmm, anyone have ccl 1.6 handy? what does (merge-pathnames "tmp/x.txt" "tmp/y.txt") return for you? 00:50:54 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255513.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:51:04 *Xach* eyes sellout, rme 00:51:11 *Xach* eyes gz also 00:52:21 mine is version 1.5 00:52:32 homie: I have 1.5 also, so the answer there is not all that interesting to me. 00:52:55 #P"tmp/tmp/x.txt" 00:52:57 good 00:53:23 #P"tmp/tmp/x.txt" 00:53:23 rme: That seems intuitively wrong to me. I expected #p"tmp/y.txt". Is my intuition wrong? 00:53:34 err, no... 00:53:45 I expected #p"tmp/y.txt" or similar 00:53:53 the repeating of "tmp", at any rate, was really not expected. 00:54:09 devinus- [~devinus@cpe-66-68-82-202.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:19 sbcl 1.0.44 returns the same 00:54:38 -!- devinus- [~devinus@cpe-66-68-82-202.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:42 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:54:50 Ok. 00:54:53 *Xach* ponders 00:55:00 devinus- [~devinus@cpe-66-68-82-202.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:55:10 Xach: I don't know. I would have to ponder also. 00:55:24 My actual problem is slightly different. 00:55:34 *Xach* tries to put together a better test case to demonstrate 00:56:47 aha, it's actually the fact that (merge-pathnames #p"tmp/") returns a relative pathname on ccl, when I assume it will be absolute. 00:57:04 *Xach* adjusts his assumptions 00:58:22 Can you suggest a good way to turn #p"tmp/" into an absolute pathname on ClozureCL? It might not already exist. 00:58:36 truename? 00:58:56 rme: that returns an error if the pathname does not exist 00:59:05 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.221.98] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:59:11 signals, rather 01:00:15 (merge-pathnames #p"tmp/" (truename *default-pathname-defaults*)) might do the trick. 01:00:17 how about ccl:full-pathname? 01:00:42 *Xach* wonders if there's any harm in an early (setf *d-p-d* (truename *d-p-d*)) 01:00:42 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-185.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: netytan] 01:00:59 rme: I'd like to avoid using an implementation function if possible. 01:01:27 *Xach* finds out there isn't much of a contract for *d-p-d* in the spec 01:01:41 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:56 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:04:28 Xach: have you looked into the ASDF sources? There's a safe truename that Fare wrote. 01:04:35 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:05:02 I've been meaning to print out and study the sources. 01:05:13 14 pages of four-up code, though. 01:05:36 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:46 I'm not entirely sure what you want to do here.... I need to scroll back. hang on... 01:06:03 weird 01:06:05 rpg: i assumed that (merge-pathnames foo) would unconditionally return an absolute pathname. 01:06:09 there is no false in CL? 01:06:11 rpg: on clozurecl it doesn't. 01:06:18 devinus-: incorrect. how'd you get that idea? 01:06:25 t 01:06:31 f => bork 01:06:41 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:06:46 or am i missing something? 01:06:57 are nil and '() used as the only falsy values? 01:07:00 Xach: So you want to take an arbitrary pathname and get a truename equivalent without hoisting an error? 01:07:30 devinus-: nil is the only false value, and '() and () are other ways to write it. 01:07:40 ah...weird 01:07:46 but cool i guess 01:07:49 devinus-: Not especially weird. 01:08:04 rpg: right. a relative pathname specifically. 01:08:05 The description is confusing me --- you seemed to be saying I want a reliable way to take a relative pathname and turn it into an absolute one 01:08:18 That is what I would like to do. 01:08:29 I'm not sure what a relative truename would be... 01:08:40 *rpg* is not firing on all cylinders today... 01:09:06 rpg: if i start lisp in etc, and i i have the relative pathname "passwd", i would like to get "/etc/passwd", except the relative pathname might not already exist. 01:09:11 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.141] has joined #lisp 01:09:25 Xach: So relative to CWD? 01:09:42 I'm not sure CWD is a meaningful concept in the CL spec... 01:09:52 rpg: there's no requirement that *d-p-d* is an absolute pathname that's the same as the directory in which you start Lisp, but that's a widespread convention. 01:10:26 Xach: I suppose one could try to pass in CWD, but that would require parsing CL arguments which is.... not portable... 01:10:41 rpg: I'm going to use (truename *d-p-d*) and see how well that works. 01:10:52 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 01:13:06 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-235-239.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13:44 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 01:13:46 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13:48 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:14:21 *Xach* is winning so far 01:15:15 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@88.243.169.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:16:31 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 01:16:46 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483C6C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:17:44 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-58-55.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:18:43 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 01:20:55 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:21:01 (merge-pathnames #p"foo/" (truename *d-p-d*)) ? 01:22:01 rpg: yes, except (setf *d-p-d* (truename *d-p-d*)) early to avoid that. 01:22:16 woo hoo, fixes quicklisp relative path installs in ccl and cmucl 01:22:21 *Xach* commits 01:22:31 -!- katesmith_ is now known as katesmith 01:23:19 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-167.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:23:36 Xach: Maybe I'm missing something, but can't *d-p-d* at least theoretically be ill-formed (e.g., no :name, just :type "lisp")? 01:24:24 rpg: Yes. I'm going for de facto wins at the moment. 01:24:28 As I said, maybe I'm missing something but I don't see why we should trust that (truename *default-pathname-defaults*) won't raise a file-error... 01:24:49 Xach: No way to start with *load-truename* and navigate to where you want to go, the way ASDF does? 01:25:04 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 01:25:28 rpg: I thought about that, but this is for the install step, and I would expect as a user that a relative path is relative to where I started Lisp and not relative to where my downloaded file happened to be. 01:25:47 or if I set *d-p-d* explicitly, relative to there. 01:25:48 clhs ~r 01:25:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cba.htm 01:25:55 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:26:04 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-77-202.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:26:15 Xach: No potential to evilly set an environment variable to CWD and then read it? 01:26:28 (i.e., from surrounding script). 01:26:38 SpitfireWP|Away [spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 01:26:39 I suppose not if you want to be portable over windows + unixen 01:26:44 rpg: no surrounding script for quicklisp. it's a single CL file you cl:load 01:26:51 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Client Quit] 01:27:22 *Xach* has already won, will wait to fix theoretical problems when angry users complain 01:27:22 (probe-file ".") ? 01:27:28 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-11-59.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:27:37 rme: that's a good one too. 01:27:47 Hmm. What is ~r supposed to do when given a float? 01:27:52 rme: works-p on windows? 01:28:21 probe-file trick is very slick.. 01:28:54 It works with ccl on Windows, at least. 01:29:15 I often wish that CL had more robust interaction with the OS, but in the Good Old Days, CL might have /been/ the OS... 01:30:03 *Xach* is not looking forward to wrasslin' with emacs and implementations differing views on how (user-homedir-pathname) and ~ differ. 01:30:50 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 01:32:04 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32:33 Why would (user-homedir-pathname) and ~ differ? 01:33:32 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:24 rtoym: Windows fun 01:34:43 Oh. Yeah, that could be messy. 01:35:11 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-77-202.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:36:21 -!- eppa [~mch@203-217-74-103.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 01:39:27 -!- mega1 [~quassel@2001:470:1f05:548:215:58ff:fe7d:773b] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:40:02 -!- SpitfireWP|Away [spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:40:44 seangrove [~user@68-26-171-248.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:05 BobTheWikipedian [4b10e7b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.16.231.185] has joined #lisp 01:41:17 hey guys...got a (hopefully quick) question 01:41:50 SpitfireWP [spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 01:41:54 *Xach* leans forward in eager anticipation! 01:42:04 i get the warning "A1 is neither declared nor bound, it will be treated as if it were declared SPECIAL" 01:42:35 when compiling in clisp 01:42:37 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 01:42:38 Don't use setq/setf in the repl on variables that you didn't already create with defvar or defparameter. 01:42:48 or in a file, either. 01:42:55 what would i type to define the variable? 01:43:02 (defvar a1) ? 01:43:07 Old tutorials and books use that style. No need to follow them. 01:43:24 BobTheWikipedian: More likely (defvar *a1* "some value") 01:43:51 so instead of (setq a1 (read)) i'll have (defvar a1 (read)) 01:44:18 BobTheWikipedian: The first time, yes. After that you can use SETQ. 01:44:26 ah thanks 01:44:29 Don't forget the earmuffs! 01:44:51 Also, IMO "setq" is a fossil -- you just use it to show that you know the history of lisp. You can just use SETF everywhere.... ;-) 01:45:10 *Xach* enjoyed getting together with all the fossils at ILC 01:45:12 *rpg* meant "one" where he used "you." 01:45:20 *drdo* uses setq 01:45:25 forsooth 01:45:34 Zounds! 01:46:21 BobTheWikipedian: Is that form at the toplevel of a file, or is it inside a function? 01:46:27 It seems that all (most?) implementations will print out part of the result of (format t "~r" 1234.0) before signaling an error. 01:46:39 it's at the top 01:46:47 *rpg* wishes he could remember what he looked like before the flesh melted away and the bones were replaced with stone. 01:47:13 seangrov` [~user@68-26-171-248.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:50 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:12 -!- seangrove [~user@68-26-171-248.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:20 looks like that's working beautifully thanks guys 01:51:54 moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@ETSY.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 01:53:31 -!- jeti [~user@p54B4726A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:53:48 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:08 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:11 leo2007 [~leo@124.65.136.150] has joined #lisp 01:54:53 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:28 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-179-143.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 01:55:39 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has left #lisp 01:57:21 -!- seangrov` [~user@68-26-171-248.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:09 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 01:59:43 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:55 -!- devinus- [~devinus@cpe-66-68-82-202.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:00:06 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 02:00:33 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has left #lisp 02:01:29 devinus_ [~devinus@cpe-66-68-82-202.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:01:54 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:02 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:00 kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 02:08:15 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-215-234.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:27 what do I need to do to make asdf do make correctly on windows? 02:08:47 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:09:11 ; $ cd c:/LISP/clsql/uffi/; make 02:09:15 that doesn't work 02:09:28 Maybe you need to get a more windowsy computer. 02:09:29 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-57.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:41 lol 02:12:55 syntard_: Is the problem with ASDF, or is it simply that the make doesn't work. ISTR needing to do a little configuration on my copy of CLSQL to make it work properly. 02:13:20 rpg: i don't know maybe I don't have make either 02:13:36 rpg: which make would work 02:13:39 syntard_: OMG. Hadn't even thought of that. 02:13:54 superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:13 I have no idea whether cygwin, mingw, or heaven-knows-what. I'm afraid you should probably ask on the CLSQL mailing list, unless Google can save you. 02:14:21 rpg: i think ccl expects .dll to be produced, cygwin's make produces .so 02:14:43 yeah 02:14:53 syntard_: sorry. I understand ASDF pretty well, but Windows is a mystery. 02:15:55 -!- devinus_ [~devinus@cpe-66-68-82-202.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:16:25 i'll try mingw 02:18:02 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:21:40 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:22:23 is the difference merely the extention? 02:24:12 chp [3d87a5ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.135.165.174] has joined #lisp 02:26:06 Fade: I don't know 02:36:06 For all I know there's a native windows make... 02:36:21 -!- katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:39:02 SCVirus [~SCVirus@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:00 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-86-205.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:40:31 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:35 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-195-1-167.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:38 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-57.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:41:46 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 02:42:19 ravic [~ravi@118-93-189-209.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:42:26 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night all] 02:45:35 eeeeeaggggghhhhhhh.... 02:46:12 "compiler bug!! occurred in assemble-lap at 15 bit." 02:47:46 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47:54 does that mean my lisp file is too large? 02:47:55 -!- leo2007 [~leo@124.65.136.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:48:40 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:49:04 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 02:49:25 or....have i found an actual compiler bug? 02:49:26 Or maybe that clisp is broken. 02:49:26 BobTheWikipedian: what CL implementation are you using? 02:49:47 2.37 for windows 02:49:53 2.37 is very, very, very old 02:50:04 BobTheWikipedian: You're pretty much on your own in #lisp when on clisp. The clisp mailing lists or some such might be better for support :) 02:50:19 nearly 5 years old 02:50:25 yikes 02:50:40 is there a #clisp channel? 02:51:05 Make a test case. 02:51:10 BobTheWikipedian: no. this isn't a bad place but not a lot of clisp users. 02:51:13 Definitely update clisp, though. 02:51:29 i downloaded it today.... 02:51:33 BobTheWikipedian: yeah, that is so old, how did you find it? on a floppy disk out behind a university? 02:51:39 Where's pjb when you need him? :-) 02:51:51 i got it from....let me check... 02:52:08 gigamonkeys.com 02:52:17 aha! gigamonkey, you bastard! 02:52:39 is gigamonkey no longer maintained 02:52:42 BobTheWikipedian: he or someone like him needs to update his website 02:52:50 gigamonkey: Fix your page, dammit. 02:53:05 lol 02:53:26 BobTheWikipedian: Get a new version from clisp.sourceforge.net. (I think that's the place.) 02:53:38 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1279427952.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:53:41 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1279427952.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:53:48 alright, do i need to remove 2.37 before installing the latest version? 02:55:15 Nobody has any comments about what ~r is supposed to do when given a float? 02:55:20 also-- not to look like an idiot, but i see no link to download it on that page 02:55:33 *rtoym* guesses he'll have to brave c.l.l for a discussion. 02:55:57 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:22 rtoym: "The argument should be an integer" implies that behaviour is otherwise undefined, doesn't it? 02:57:11 Oh, I missed that. 02:57:37 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-57-69.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:49 oh i see a link for version 2.49 at softpedia though.... 02:58:00 BobTheWikipedian: Are you running a linux? 02:58:09 win 7 02:58:12 A bit confusing, though. It says ~D is like ~10R. But ~D accepts floats, and uses ~A instead. 02:58:12 32 bit 02:58:46 I thought CLISP was up to 4.x? 02:59:14 Sorry, no. 2.49 on ports, too... 03:00:01 If you are just getting started, and on Windows, have you considered lisp works? 03:00:12 I think there's a free trial version... 03:00:24 will it run on my flash drive? 03:00:30 rtoym: is it the radix maybe ? 03:00:49 rtoym: if ~r gets a float in ccl, it prints it with princ. 03:00:58 that's probably just traditional. 03:01:07 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:01:12 BobTheWikipedian: I dunno. I don't use Windows myself. I just know that a lot of the windows folks use lispworks, and it has an IDE which might help you break in. 03:01:18 BobTheWikipedian: YMMV. 03:01:34 BobTheWikipedian: Maybe you need the CYGWIN package (wrt no download link) 03:02:06 ccl + slime I thought was the recommended for windows. Not near as easy to set up as lw of course :) 03:02:13 well i'm using visual studio to edit and it's working alright so far; using a batch file to compile and run the file 03:02:32 BobTheWikipedian: Sounds painful (: 03:02:40 heh not really 03:02:50 BobTheWikipedian: well, if you only knew... 03:02:54 katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has joined #lisp 03:03:01 BobTheWikipedian: you are missing 7/8ths of the magic! 03:03:14 i learned to program qbasic programs in qbasic.exe and java programs in edit.exe 03:03:24 BobTheWikipedian: we all have things to overcome in life! 03:03:35 BobTheWikipedian: It is a method that works, but as Xach says you are missing out on all the fun. 03:03:54 lol 03:04:15 BobTheWikipedian: You know the niceness visualstudio gives you for F#? interactive development etc. etc. THAT stuff. and amazing source code lookupery. 03:04:24 schmrkc: i set it up today and quicklisp made it almost easy. still a little ways to go. 03:04:33 ccl + slime on windows, that is 03:04:36 f#....lol...i've never even seen anyone write or use f#.... 03:05:10 Xach: Cools. I really know nothing about windows. Nice that quicklisp works fineish there too. Having been on quicklisp for a week or two now I have no idea how one ever got by using asdf-install :) 03:05:16 BobTheWikipedian: Oh ok :( 03:05:32 visual studio and jgrasp are my primary code ides 03:05:34 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 03:05:41 notepad is next...lol 03:06:01 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-234-37.rice.edu] has quit [Quit: plediii] 03:06:07 BobTheWikipedian: You type text there in the editor window, and you have an interactive prompt window. You can type stuff in the interactive prompt, or evaluate parts of the stuff in your editor buffer. etc. quite the nice. visual studio is catching up in some ways. 03:06:17 although i would probably appreciate some parenthesis matching feature... 03:06:37 i can't remember if jgrasp will match parentheses...i know it matches braces 03:06:38 lisp without paredit :S 03:07:00 i'll try it and see if it does right now actually.... 03:07:49 BobTheWikipedian: I don't actually use LispWorks or windows, but I know Windows developers who do, and who like it. It should install smoothly, and the personal version is free. www.lispworks.com 03:07:58 *Xach* got hunchentoot running on ccl for windows with the usual quicklisp alacricity 03:08:21 BobTheWikipedian: I'm not trying to sell anything; just would like you to have a more pleasant time getting started (and not have to wrestle with too many side-issues other than CL). 03:09:19 heh, looks like jgrasp'll match parentheses...woot 03:09:40 goodbye visual studio, hello jgrasp 03:10:20 yeah rpg i understand...my computer is quite bogged down though and my memory shipment is in the mail.... 03:10:40 BobTheWikipedian: kill utorrent. 03:10:47 ? 03:10:49 oh 03:11:05 BobTheWikipedian: My experience from the wife's computer is that utorrent is always hogging *all* resources. 03:11:20 i don't even know what utorrent is 03:11:39 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:11:44 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 03:11:53 avg and firefox are hogging my resources 03:11:56 BobTheWikipedian: Oh ok. It's a torrent client. 03:11:58 and windows... 03:12:05 i figured as much.... 03:12:08 :) 03:12:09 (note to RIAA: I also have no idea what utorrent is) 03:12:11 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 03:12:18 I know they are spying. 03:12:20 lol 03:12:48 i didn't pirate genie in a bottle from a third party website two weeks ago and then delete it after playing it 03:13:59 I am actually reading the sbcl.org/manual here. Is it much of this information that has changed since 1.0.44 ? 03:14:22 seangrove [~user@68-26-171-248.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:34 alright, installed 2.49, and i'll see if the error persists 03:17:59 ick. same error.... 03:18:06 about this trial software.... 03:18:24 lispworks.com you say 03:22:17 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:23:31 downloading....this hopefully won't throw the 15-bit error at me.... 03:23:38 -!- SpitfireWP [spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:24:15 -!- dnm [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:24:37 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 03:25:37 -!- moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@ETSY.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:42 moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@ETSY.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:26:43 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.85.238] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 03:27:32 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:27:48 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-101-71-212.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:33 good morning all 03:29:38 morning 03:30:04 -!- rme [rme@clozure-AC1C217F.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:30:04 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-122-27.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:31:05 moxiemk1_ [~moxiemk1@ETSY.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:31:05 -!- moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@ETSY.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:31:57 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.145.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:32:55 -!- cipher [~cipher@c-76-24-16-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:33:46 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.157.197] has joined #lisp 03:34:00 moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@ETSY.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:34:21 cipher [~cipher@c-76-24-16-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:33 -!- moxiemk1_ [~moxiemk1@ETSY.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:36:45 BobTheWikipedian: What is the code that is throwing the error? 03:36:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:37:25 well i have this gigantic list in it that is 900 someodd KB long-- i think that may be the cause 03:37:30 -!- sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:59 making sure though.... 03:38:25 Aha. maybe you are running out of memory 03:38:33 quite likely 03:39:05 actually...while compiling i'm at 100% cpu usage and 82% ram usage 03:40:37 still compiling.... 03:41:32 compiling in lw? 03:41:38 got the bug...here's what i've done... 03:41:48 (defvar students) 03:41:56 (SETQ students (LIST (LIST (LIST 'Abbott 'Ashley 'J) '8697387888 'ajabbott@mail.usi.edu 2.3073320999676614) (LIST (LIST 'Abbott 'Bradley 'M) 'NONE 'bmabbott@mail.usi.edu 3.1915725161177115) 03:41:57 etc 03:42:21 the list has like 10492 students in it 03:42:44 whoops i just posted real email addresses 03:43:00 -!- seangrove [~user@68-26-171-248.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:43:28 a list seems like not the ideal data structure for 10492 students 03:43:41 well that's the assignment 03:43:43 Maybe you want to dump it in postgresql or something? 03:44:00 the list was handed to me as is, without the defvar line 03:44:16 Yes. It's horrible. :) 03:44:23 What's the actual assignment? 03:45:06 the assignment is to insert a name into the lisp database using lisp, and calculate average gpa's and stuff 03:45:09 BobTheWikipedian: FWIW, Lisp *does* have objects and structures, either of which would be a far better way to store the individual records. 03:45:28 without using any modern lisp commands 03:45:38 hooe. random access in a 10492 long list :) :) :) 03:45:51 i'm supposed to use cars, cdrs, consts 03:45:53 BobTheWikipedian: Well if you must use the list then I guess you need more RAM or more swap space ;) 03:45:55 What you're doing is the moral equivalent of a C program that just stuffs things into raw arrays and makes you access structure fields through pointer arithmetic. 03:45:59 What on earth` 03:46:06 CAR and CDR! 03:46:13 drat...the ram upgrade is in the mail though.... 03:46:14 is this "stone age lisping 101" ? :) 03:46:20 heh i may be doomed 03:46:38 can't you just increase the swap space windows uses to some extra gigabytes? 03:46:38 yes, it's a class called "programming languages" 03:46:43 It also seems nutso, even if they want to teach you all the car, cdr, etc. why the hell use this vast array of data? You could make the point with TEN records.... 03:46:55 Well, write some accessors in terms of car and cdr, etc. 03:47:07 (student-name entry), etc. 03:47:08 because it's a class to teach us how different languages work at the base level 03:47:12 BobTheWikipedian: They're giving a horrid view of lisp it seems. But oh well. Can't you split the list? 03:47:14 Do they have you writing C programs with just GOTO? 03:47:26 oh 03:47:28 we haven't touched c 03:48:07 but we wrote a lexical parser and compiler that produces a java program from a list of algebraic expressions 03:48:21 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:48:22 BobTheWikipedian: Like open the file up in a text editor. erase 90% of it. then go. 03:48:30 And write a constructor, and abstract out whatever horrible representation you are using. 03:48:30 lol 03:48:33 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has joined #lisp 03:48:42 actually, for testing purposes, that might just work 03:49:00 right 03:49:09 and maybe rename it *students* while you're at it :) 03:49:21 :) 03:49:37 brb while i delete info.... 03:49:47 So your code should look like (student-email-address (find-student name)) etc. 03:50:11 for the record, non-compile time stats: cpu usage: 90% ram usage 81% 03:50:18 *schmrkc* agrees. It need to be prettied up too. 03:50:23 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@254-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50:54 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has quit [Client Quit] 03:51:14 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has joined #lisp 03:52:06 lemoinem [~swoog@254-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:50 cut it down to under 70 students and we'll see what happens.... 03:53:04 woot 03:53:08 that was the issue 03:54:10 So you need some nice accessor functions for starters. 03:54:39 i was actually planning on writing some nice functions if i get the hang of this 03:54:45 (: 03:55:04 BobTheWikipedian: I'm still a bit miffed at this course you're taking giving such a horrid presentation of lisp :) 03:55:25 sykopomp [~user@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:45 schmrkc, still better than what we learned while in college 5 years back here :p 03:56:10 -!- sykopomp [~user@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:56:10 sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:56:31 :O 03:57:41 Bob: I suggest writing the accessors first. 03:58:25 we actually have one class out here that teaches lisp aside from this assignment...the artificial intelligence class i'll be taking is supposed to use it i think 03:58:51 zhiv-- of course... 03:59:40 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 04:00:08 actually i'm not surprised we're using this sort of implementation-- when they teach java they forbid use of the Array, Stack, LinkedList etc classes 04:00:11 how to call sb-thread:make-thread so that I can get a name and do sb-thread:join-thread on that name ? 04:00:15 you have to write them yourself 04:00:39 Understanding the cons block in CL is very useful. 04:00:52 (cons a b) produces a first class association from a to b. 04:01:10 That's one of the most valuable ideas in lisp. 04:02:01 kushal: I'm thinking (setf *foo* (make-thread ....)) 04:02:24 schmrkc, let me try 04:02:45 now if i want the email from the list i provided the beginning of, i would type something like (cdr list(cdr list(students))), correct? 04:02:52 kushal: Or just grab something from LIST-ALL-THREADS 04:02:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@rrcs-69-193-205-118.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:03:11 wait i'd need a car in there 04:03:42 schmrkc, worked, thanks 04:03:48 I suggest investing in 'first'. 04:04:02 But, no. 04:04:14 Something like (first (first students)) might work. 04:04:22 kushal: I did (inspect (first (list-all-threads))) and the thread class appears to have a NAME slot. Supposedly you could access that somehow. One would think make-thread had an option for it :S 04:04:24 what's first do? 04:04:36 first is the same as car. 04:04:41 ah okay 04:05:12 so if i'm required to use car and cdr (which i am), it'd be (car (car students)) 04:05:54 with students being '(((foo bar j) 12341234 ...) maybe not caar 04:06:28 BobTheWikipedian: You're probably best off experimenting at the repl. 04:06:29 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:09:25 BobTheWikipedian: You can generally make code even more confusing by converting things like (cdr (cdr (car (cdr ......)))) into (cddadr ...) 04:10:01 heh that would be good revenge.... 04:10:06 (define first (x) (car x)) <- there you go. 04:10:26 Unless you've been told not to define any functions ... 04:10:53 kushal: Also I see when I type into my SLIME (sb-thread:make-thread it tells me (make-thread function &key name) ;) 04:11:31 schmrkc, that I found http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Threading-basics.html#Threading-basics , but was unable to understand how to use that name 04:12:10 kushal: (make-thread fn :name "ball of yarn for my kitten") 04:12:22 -!- SCVirus [~SCVirus@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:12:26 it's just for easier identification 04:12:47 if you lose it you can list-all-threads and have a tag on it. 04:12:55 ok 04:13:01 schmrkc, I will try this then 04:13:12 Zhivago: in scheme-mode are we? (define first ..) :) 04:13:37 That would be (define (first x) ...) 04:13:38 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:13:43 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 04:13:55 Anyhow, you get the point -- define less stupid accessors for the task at hand. 04:14:25 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:14:43 time for some python code for office 04:14:43 kushal: Personally I think I'd make one of them global special vars for storing a list of all threads I created. for easy looping over. 04:14:43 -!- az [~az@p5796C803.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:14:56 schmrkc, ok, that sounds easier 04:15:00 Zhivago: scheme sure has prettier function definition syntax. 04:15:45 Somewhat more consistent with useage, anyhow. 04:16:00 Usage, even. 04:16:35 *schmrkc* nods 04:16:58 Good morning everyone! 04:17:45 aha got it 04:17:54 (car(cdr(cdr(car(car(list students)))))) 04:17:55 :) 04:18:11 morning beach 04:18:30 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:18:34 BobTheWikipedian: The (list students) strikes me as odd. 04:18:45 is it wrong? 04:18:57 What does (list 1) do? 04:18:58 Okay, I've updated the lispbox page so no one else will be sucked in the attractive nuisance of the several old Lispbox builds. 04:19:03 Sorry, BobTheWikipedian 04:19:12 lol no hard feelings 04:19:24 Bob: What is the result of (list 1)? 04:19:30 and what about (car (list 1)) ? 04:19:53 compared to (car (list students)) 04:20:04 zhiv--- "CAR: 1 is not a list" 04:20:06 -!- moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@ETSY.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:25 Oh, dear! 04:20:41 BobTheWikipedian: I think the point is (car (list x)) => x for all x 04:20:57 oh i see 04:21:08 so i should replace the inner car with the list itself 04:21:43 Um, you are wrong. 04:21:51 (list 1) does not produce that output. 04:21:56 What you probably should do is write some function to walk from the top of the list to the end. :) 04:22:02 You should learn how to answer simple questions. 04:22:03 the outermost list, that is 04:22:04 az [~az@p4FE4F31E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:28 my apologies...i thought you meant to replace the bit with that, not to just do that by itself 04:22:41 (list students) can be valid, fsvo students 04:23:18 sykopomp: but (car (list students)) is silly favo students. 04:23:49 mega1 [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:08 but valid! 04:25:39 sykopomp: scroll back, look at list. 04:25:49 sykopomp: but surely it would be more clear to write (cdr (cons (reverse students) students)) ;-) 04:26:23 gigamonkey: That's what I'm trying to advocate here! 04:26:27 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:26:45 okay...answer for the quesitons....(car(list 1)) produced "1"....(list 1) produced "(1)"...(list students) produced "((((ambrose amberlee s....etc)))) 04:27:12 BobTheWikipedian: I think your first worry should be to actually iterate over the list. 04:27:28 BobTheWikipedian: You have 70 items in it or what was it? How do you get to item #32 ? 04:28:09 ah good question 04:28:15 cdddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddr is not the answer ;) 04:28:44 actually i have 10492 items in the list 04:28:47 troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:48 BobTheWikipedian: when you can walk the list, then you can worry about accessing the individual items. Just my two cents. 04:28:52 right. 04:28:55 so yes traversal is VERY important 04:28:57 That's a lot of d's 04:29:02 lol 04:29:08 traversal is the word I was looking for (: 04:29:21 i'd need a while loop...but i'm not allowed to use a while... 04:29:25 Ocaso [~chatzilla@203.156.243.14] has joined #lisp 04:29:30 perhaps a recursive function with an if 04:29:51 BobTheWikipedian: I am guessing that the idea is that you write this function. Normally one would use DOLIST or LOOP or something. 04:30:01 clhs 17.3 04:30:02 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for 17.3. 04:30:07 minion: tell BobTheWikipedian about gentle 04:30:07 BobTheWikipedian: look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 04:30:13 I think that book has some good bits on it. 04:30:34 alright thanks for the reference 04:30:41 clhs map 04:30:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_map.htm 04:30:50 and also thanks for the laughs everyone...gonna try and write these functions now 04:30:59 hoh ya. map might be allowed. good thinknig. 04:31:00 BobTheWikipedian: that's commonly used to iterate over sequences. 04:31:02 i'll probably return but i'll see how far i can get 04:31:16 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 04:31:20 I really don't get these artificial assignment restrictions. 04:31:31 pkhuong_: I'm thinking without being allowed to use FIRST then maybe MAP is not so ok :S 04:31:36 lol it's so we learn how the language itself works 04:31:54 not how to use functions others have written 04:32:00 obviously it is to show off lisp in a bad light so they all stay happy with C# 04:32:07 BobTheWikipedian: you mean, functions included in the language... 04:32:09 i hate c# 04:32:29 BobTheWikipedian: gentle is probably a good read. It explains lists and things. 04:32:34 and is good with the recursion. 04:32:48 yeah...they do the same thing when they teach java...you aren't allowed to use the Stack class or LinkedList class..... 04:33:12 What other languages are you going to hit in this course? 04:33:47 not sure yet...i've requested we touch on some javascript, even though it's a scripting language and not a programming language 04:34:12 i think we're looking at cobol next week 04:34:24 hey there's good money in cobol. 04:34:42 -!- troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:34:50 we're not going to touch on basic 04:35:17 too archaic for the professor to give notice to 04:35:34 he despises goto and gosub and refuses to give the language attention 04:36:03 basic seems a pretty useless language to go into. 04:36:25 BobTheWikipedian: make sure you write your lisp using TAGBODY a lot. 04:36:46 tagbody? 04:37:34 ya it's a bit like goto. 04:37:36 ++ 04:37:38 lol 04:37:39 -!- Protected [~Join@myshelter.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:39:13 or in CPS 04:39:27 BobTheWikipedian: the difference between 'scripting' and 'programming' languages is so blurry as to be of ambiguous reality. 04:39:54 this is true... 04:40:15 although i must say...i'd take java over php any day 04:40:53 but i'm biased-- i tutor java and learned it back in 2004 04:41:09 just now delving into php 04:43:08 A scripting language should direct the actions of an agent. 04:43:19 Which is why we have shell script. 04:43:33 It's a matter of intent and environment. 04:44:08 Bob: Why do you think that javascript isn't a programming language? 04:44:37 because i've only seen it used as a scripting language-- on web pages 04:45:00 It sounds like your brain is full of nonsense. 04:45:10 gee thanks, but explain 04:45:20 What is the difference between (lambda (x) (+ x 1)) and function(x) { return x + 1; } ? 04:45:44 um...one make sense to me 04:45:52 Which one? 04:45:56 the second 04:46:04 They do the same things. 04:46:15 What differentiates a 'scripting language' from a 'programming language'? 04:47:19 a scripting language produces script for a web page, whereas a programming language has more capabilities that can provide a stand-alone interface 04:47:44 #! /bin/sh (: 04:48:04 Ok, that's completely stupid. 04:48:10 Find whoever taught you that and hurt them. 04:48:26 i still haven't heard your explanation as to why i'm incorrect 04:48:30 BobTheWikipedian: where does node.js fall into that? 04:48:30 Providing a stand-alone interface is an implementation detail. There are stand-alone javascript implementations. 04:48:50 or google native client? 04:48:54 It's like saying "a car that you only drive on sundays isn't a car". 04:49:03 i've not dealt with javascript, pk. i can only tell you that's javascript 04:49:36 It's obviously the product of a diseased mind and can tolerate such definitions based on irrelevancies. 04:49:44 s/and/that/ 04:49:52 BobTheWikipedian: it's also a stand alone web server that compiles javascript to native code. And the other lets you run x86 code as browser "script". 04:49:55 no not really zhiv since term a is "language", not "programming language" 04:50:06 What are you babbling about now? 04:50:39 Is x86 assembly a scripting language, as opposed to a programming language? Did scripting language not exist before dynamic web pages? 04:51:09 i'd call x86 a technology 04:51:41 anyway, you're asking questions about things i'm not qualified to give an opinion on since i am barely familiar with them 04:51:41 BobTheWikipedian: the x86 assembly programming language ? 04:52:13 never heard it called a language at all until you just said that 04:52:15 BobTheWikipedian: javascript is a perfectly good full featured programming language. even though it has script in its name :) 04:52:19 :O 04:52:23 or how about that C-to-flash compiler? Does that make C a scripting language? 04:52:37 devinus_ [~devinus@cpe-66-68-82-202.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:52:40 BobTheWikipedian: It's what x86 assembly programmers use. x86 assembly. 04:52:45 Bob: You need to start critically analyzing the nonsense in your head rather than just cramming more and more in. 04:52:55 BobTheWikipedian: (also it is a total pain in the arse and intel should get shot) 04:52:56 BobTheWikipedian: you've never heard of assembly language being called a language? what the hell? 04:53:16 i didn't say assembly language 04:53:18 i said x86 04:53:30 BobTheWikipedian: pkhuong_ asked about x86 assembly though :) 04:53:32 of course assembly language is a language 04:53:45 i figured by assembly he meant the hardware 04:53:56 hrrrm. 04:54:03 I'm pretty sure he meant what he said (: 04:54:25 well i finally know what my first big lisp project is going to be. i'm going to make a Scheme interpretter written in CL 04:54:29 schmrkc: (and x86 asm is just fine as it is) 04:54:38 devinus_: make it a compiler! 04:54:52 pkhuong_: I'm a MIPS+ARM lover. x86 gets me aggrevated. 04:55:03 pkhuong_: I guess its the MOVXOAKETKRAETKHARO instruction that gets me really upset. 04:55:05 pkhuong_: i think it's going to use eval underneath so on sbcl it will be compiled 04:55:24 schmrkc: it says something that I'm not sure whether you bashed the keyboard or that's actually an instruction 04:55:31 i couldn't decide which i wanted to learn first, so i decided to just go with both at once :P 04:55:33 Ralith: exactly. 04:55:53 devinus_: that's not quite how it works... 04:55:56 Ralith: and they make 'em longer and longer with each SSE increase ;) 04:56:10 well it appears i've overstayed my welcome here so i may turn somewhere else if i have further questions regarding lisp 04:56:11 devinus_: The fact that SBCL compiles to native code doesn't turn an interpreter into a compiler. 04:56:25 BobTheWikipedian: you're always welcome. 04:56:51 BobTheWikipedian: Don't let Zhivago scare ya. (: 04:56:56 BobTheWikipedian: don't mind Zhivago. 04:56:58 beach: ah, right... well i definitely wont call it a compiler. but it will be turned into native code, which is cool, right? 04:57:08 Zhivago: I heard someone made a whole website with quotes from you? 04:57:37 devinus_: if you use eval each time a function is called, there's no point in recompiling that function to native code each time. 04:58:01 personally i fail to see the value of criticizing someone's statements without offering some actual logic and evidence to back it up instead of insulting them 04:58:02 schmrkc: The mentally deficient rarely lack for time on their hands. 04:59:01 pkhuong_: no, what i think i'm going to do is use CL to build out the entire program in to a CL tree by going through the entire AST of the scheme program and then at the very end eval it 04:59:09 BobTheWikipedian: Zhivago will be very helpful if you ignore your ego and ask him to explain himself. 04:59:18 devinus_: that would be a compiler. 04:59:22 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 04:59:23 Interpreter and compiler aren't mutually exclusive in any case. 04:59:26 my ego? and i've done so a few times already 04:59:27 pkhuong_: ok, cool 04:59:35 SBCL is an example of an interpreter that uses a compiler to extend itself. 04:59:38 Zhivago: Indeed. It was someone who was sitting around in #asm bitching about how you had been rude to him over in #C. Apperently he was annoyed by you actually knowing shit and him not knowing shit :) 05:00:04 People just have some weird preconception that "interpreter" means "slow". 05:00:50 -!- erory [~rory_elri@203-206-172-3.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:00 Zhivago: no, I just have this postconception that compilers tend to be strictly more interesting to write than interpreters. 05:02:32 Bob: Do you have a coherent definition of 'scripting language' and 'programming language'? 05:03:51 a scripting language spits out a string of text to be interpreted by the script processor, whereas the programming language spits out instructions to be carried out by the operating system 05:04:11 Bob: Well, that fails. 05:04:24 let's hear your definitions then 05:04:26 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 05:04:29 Because in that case the operating system would be the same as a script processor. 05:04:45 good morning 05:04:50 morning 05:05:00 Which would mean that a scripting language is the same as a programming language. 05:05:03 So, please try again. 05:05:19 (Unless you can define the difference between a script processor and an operating system). 05:05:26 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-154-166.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:30 explain to me how the operating system is a script processor 05:05:44 Well, it interprets strings of text, apparantly. 05:06:11 but a script processor interprets markup language 05:06:13 Unless "spits out instructions" produces something else ... 05:06:38 Is the unix shell a script processor? 05:06:40 so let's throw markup language in as another type of language 05:06:49 No. Let's answer my question. 05:07:30 that processes instructions, and executes them 05:07:40 tbh I'm a bit confused why this is just fine but people talking about closures is tossed out ;) 05:07:41 Is the unix shell a script processor? 05:07:53 lol schmrkc 05:07:57 schmrkc: do you see anything else going on? 05:08:05 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-198-134.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:08:09 It's the #lisp strange hour. 05:08:20 pkhuong_: nope. neither did I back when I saw someone moaning about the closures :) 05:08:26 -!- Ocaso [~chatzilla@203.156.243.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:08:32 It's "teaching elementary school level critical thinking" hour. 05:08:33 BobTheWikipedian: just so you know, javascript exists outside of web browsers. 05:08:36 I missed the closures conversation, but this is fun to watch. 05:08:40 *franki^* has popcorn 05:08:50 critical thinking is a very good skill. 05:08:55 indeed 05:09:11 Ocaso [~chatzilla@203.156.243.14] has joined #lisp 05:09:15 BobTheWikipedian: maybe you should not have accepted my statement so readily ;) 05:09:18 Bob: Is that "indeed, the unix shell is a script processor"? 05:09:29 *schmrkc* figured indeed crit th was good 05:09:31 schmrkc why not 05:09:37 *schmrkc* goes back to the repl for a bit. 05:09:43 zhiv no indeed critical thinking is a good skill 05:09:48 Unfortunately Bob appears to be broken and unable to answer simple questions. 05:10:05 i'm still puzzled as to how you can call unix a scripting language 05:10:05 BobTheWikipedian: btw. what you described there "reads text and does stuff" is pretty much what your average CPU does. 05:10:16 or suggest that i think it is 05:10:31 BobTheWikipedian: unix shell 05:10:38 #! /bin/sh 05:10:42 unix shell then 05:10:46 still puzzled 05:10:57 to me unix and unix shell are the same 05:11:00 widely used for scripting. 05:11:05 oh boy. lets not go there. 05:11:06 i've not dealt much with them 05:11:22 people have been writing unix shell scripts forever. 05:11:35 i was raised on windows and only very recently exposed to linux and solaris 05:11:41 right. 05:11:48 you can think of it as a .BAT file in DOS. 05:11:51 So, how about the windows shell? 05:11:54 and even more recently, mac 05:12:26 the windows operating system is a shell, as is dos 05:12:33 if i understand correctly 05:12:34 erory [~rory_elri@110.151.147.116] has joined #lisp 05:13:18 Bob: You are wrong. The windows operating system is not a shell. 05:13:18 *schmrkc* finds something interesting on having CMUCL allow callbacks in lisp space from foreign code. 05:13:26 I need to look into how to get sbcl jiving with this. 05:13:35 schmrkc: Requires pinning, iirc. 05:13:39 schmrkc: disable threads on SBCL and it'll work. 05:13:42 Zhivago: makes sense. 05:13:47 pkhuong_: It sure didn't last time I tried :) 05:13:55 without threads? 05:13:58 *schmrkc* nods. 05:14:02 ...waits for explanation of the difference between the shell and operating system 05:14:05 'twas last year though. 05:14:17 schmrkc: you rebuilt a thread-less SBCL and it didn't work? 05:14:24 BobTheWikipedian: This isn't really the place for that. Go read up if you are interested. 05:14:25 Bob: I think that you are currently too stupid to be helped. You need to learn enough basics of CS to be able to have an intelligent conversation. 05:14:29 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 05:14:30 Bob: Good luck. 05:14:31 I basically FFI'd to libjack, set up some callbacks in lisp space, and bam. things exploded real fast. 05:14:34 pkhuong_: Yes. 05:14:53 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:15:05 thanks you just discounted my entire six years at the university 05:15:22 BobTheWikipedian: Please tell me what university that is! 05:15:24 If you cannot have a conversation at this level, then your time was completely wasted. 05:15:28 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:15:34 Please choose another career. 05:15:43 seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:43 schmrkc: interesting... of course, the issue here is with a library spawning threads *and* calling third-party code in them. 05:16:11 even in C or C++ that can quickly become an issue (although the workaround is usually simpler than with SBCL) 05:16:40 pkhuong_: Aha.. What I have is lisp-code I write myself, and hooked 'em into something in libjack, and the central jack server talks to libjack which calls the lisp code. 05:17:19 pkhuong_: iirc tic solved it by writing some in-between C. But it seems it should be doable regardless. 05:17:53 *schmrkc* shrugs. 05:18:00 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 05:18:25 yeah, the usual workaround is to write C code that performs explicit inter-thread calls. 05:18:32 interesting. 05:18:43 I will look back into this next month sometime. 05:18:46 dnm [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:51 I'm glad for the current trend away from threading. 05:19:17 Who needs threads when the GPU can do all the work (: 05:19:42 Well, more a trend toward light processes with data-channels. 05:19:51 erlang, go, javascript, ... 05:19:53 ya 05:19:58 schmrkc: but I'm really surprised about your report that foreign-thread callbacks don't work on unthreaded builds (although, having concurrent lisp execution in an unthreaded build would wreak havok) 05:20:08 *schmrkc* really likes erlang in many ways. 05:20:44 pkhuong_: It was last year sometime and I'm fairly certain I was told to build a non-threaded sbcl and try it. You're making me doubt that I did. But I do think I did. 05:21:01 *schmrkc* asks find to find the code. 05:21:10 benny` [~benny@i577A7882.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:22:02 -!- benny` is now known as benny 05:23:07 so.....as i reflect on the last 50 minutes of conversation, the only thing i have learned is never to mention javascript being a programming language while in the #lisp channel 05:23:28 correction scripting 05:23:43 BobTheWikipedian: Or to avoid having long conversations about it. 05:24:00 :P 05:24:02 Bob: You should have learned that you are grotesquely ignorant and need to fix that. 05:24:14 Bob: That you haven't is probably the reason that you remain so. 05:24:42 well i do know that unix systems aren't the focus at my university 05:24:52 great. 05:25:01 our cs major is programming-centric 05:25:06 *schmrkc* grabs some sbcl sourceball to build. 05:25:14 -!- erory [~rory_elri@110.151.147.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:25:37 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:25:40 Bob: But you don't know what an operating system is? 05:25:58 Zhivago: No, he doesn't 05:25:59 an operating provides a user interface to the entire computer 05:26:04 BobTheWikipedian: I'm having a hard time understanding why you on your 6th year as a programming-centric cs major is taking courses like the one you're taking now with the highly restricted java and lisp, etc. 05:26:12 Bob: So, go back to "you are grotesquely ignorant" and fix it. 05:26:22 Well, he's a troll, so ... 05:26:40 I wonder what that means for headless systems... 05:26:53 BobTheWikipedian: I'd think by year two atleast one would have a well read purely functional data structures and other nice books. 05:26:57 i beg to differ...i'd call you the troll, zhiv... 05:27:08 sicp seems a good one too. 05:27:09 ... 6 year CS course? 05:27:23 6th year, yes 05:27:41 *schmrkc* would like some 6 years at uni right about now. 05:27:49 Bob: Yes, but we've established that you're extremely ignorant and claim to have been studying this for 6 years. 05:27:52 so much free hacking time. 05:28:00 Bob: Either you are mentally retarded or you are a troll. 05:28:06 this course focuses on a comparison of a wide array of programming languages and how they operate 05:28:10 Bob: You can choose. 05:28:24 yes i am mentally retarded, sorry i didn't establish that before i came in the room 05:28:30 next topic 05:28:33 Bob: Good. Now, please go away. 05:28:42 BobTheWikipedian: I understand what the course is. It's just a bullshit course for 6th year of programming-centric CS. 05:30:23 how so 05:31:00 Well, it's a bit like a 6th year physics major being given a project on how to get eggs into milkbottles using a candle. 05:31:20 BobTheWikipedian: because the whole layup for the course is so basic+stupid that it could maybe fit into first semester. big maybe on that. 05:32:14 first semester they teach folks how to write simple java programs 05:32:57 and the other 75% of the weeks of the first semester? 05:33:03 Bob: Which college is this? 05:33:18 the stuff we're covering in this course involves manipulating java in ways it wasn't intended for 05:33:42 you make it sound like all you have been doing is writing java for 6 years. 05:33:45 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-101-71-212.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:33:56 binary trees? 05:34:04 Bob: I'm sorry -- I missed which college this is ... could you tell us? 05:34:05 we've covered that 05:34:19 zhiv, i don't see a reason to share that with you 05:34:25 as you have no respect for it 05:34:28 well anyway. this got stupid. 05:34:29 Bob: Because it would demonstrate you to be a liar and a troll? 05:34:52 BobTheWikipedian: what you need to do is to write a function that traverses that list of yours, and that can do something to each entry on it. 05:34:58 you'd be able to tell pretty quickly by analyzing the data in that list i supplied an hour or so ago 05:34:59 scroll up 05:35:02 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.11.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:35:13 like (bob-map fn (list ....)) 05:35:27 6th year? 05:35:29 christ 05:35:43 thanks for reminding me what i was gonna do next schmrkc...been so long since that topic.... 05:35:47 shouldn't you be entirely beyond the level of mere programming languages by then? 05:36:04 BobTheWikipedian: and I really recommend checking out that book 05:36:08 minion: tell BobTheWikipedian about gentle 05:36:08 BobTheWikipedian: look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 05:36:38 it's an even smoother introduction than #lisp ;) 05:37:07 heh 05:37:11 i'd say 05:37:39 damn that's a lot of cobol. 05:37:43 cobol is what pays the big bucks. 05:38:10 maybe i should've studied that instead of visual basic 05:38:46 yes. 05:39:31 heh. My 6th year will be either "finding a job" or "starting a phd" :> 05:39:42 zhiv did you figure out my university yet by scrolling up 05:40:23 So, you're in the college of business, then? :) 05:40:24 pl unfortunately not all retarded people finish in four years 05:40:27 yes 05:40:28 No wonder you're retarded. 05:40:38 no actually i was born that way 05:41:11 but yes being in the college of business at my university really REALLY stinks 05:41:34 Why? That's where the money is :( 05:41:43 no wonder they have cobol. They want you to work with the banks. 05:41:44 we've begged they move us to science and engineering...but that college is too poor for computers 05:41:55 lol 05:42:45 BobTheWikipedian: If you want some real action forget about javascript and start talking about java instead ;) 05:43:05 okay, java. 05:43:28 i don't know any javascript anyway...i've spent 7 years with java 05:43:53 plus my job is working with java 05:44:06 BobTheWikipedian: Really though. We're quite a nice channel in general. Just damn man! you need to start to think outside what you have been told at that school of yours :) 05:44:41 heh most of what i know outside of programming i learned on the job 05:44:55 hardware, it help desk, etc... 05:45:02 as-400 operation... 05:46:44 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:46:47 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 05:47:21 smanek [~smanek@adsl-70-232-160-18.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:35 does a defun always take a single parameter? 05:47:54 argument that is 05:48:11 clhs defun 05:48:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defun.htm 05:49:22 from what i'm reading that's a yes...thanks for the link 05:49:56 Ok you read wrong. 05:50:04 i did? 05:50:10 Yes. 05:50:15 ajmorgan [~HackingLe@96.18.164.16] has joined #lisp 05:50:47 (defun functionName (arg) (doStuff....)) 05:50:53 looks like one argument to me 05:51:04 yup. 05:51:13 That is one argument. 05:51:30 One argument to defun? 05:51:32 Here's me calling a function with many arguments. 05:51:34 BobTheWikipedian, function-name lambda-list [[declaration* | documentation]] form* 05:51:38 (+ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) 05:51:39 I don't think so. 05:51:54 isn't the list an argument though? 05:52:02 what list 05:52:03 ? 05:52:20 Bob: + is a function 05:52:34 the bit in double brackets...wait what is the bit in the double brackets 05:52:37 Oh look, this isn't an argument! 05:52:47 slyrus: yes it is. 05:52:48 What "double brackets"? 05:52:57 heh but we're discussing arguments lol 05:53:00 Zhivago: [[declaration* ... ]] 05:53:02 [[ ]] 05:53:05 yes 05:53:05 I don't think Bob knows BNF 05:53:25 BobTheWikipedian: (defun foo (a b c) (+ a b c)) 05:53:26 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:53:29 (foo 1 2 3) 05:53:36 yeah i do 05:53:55 great. 05:54:05 because the spec explains the lambda-list bit 05:54:16 ah i see...there are no parentheses there 05:57:27 syntard__ [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:03 lispforlife [~user@103.sub-75-201-57.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 05:59:41 -!- syntard [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:59:54 -!- syntard__ is now known as syntard 06:01:04 risent [~risent@ip-67-202-107-128.static.chi2.systeminplace.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:53 oconnore [~eric@wsip-70-168-242-70.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:11 BrianRice` [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:25 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:03:25 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 06:05:17 looks like functions and if statements in lisp work similar to wikimedia scripting syntax, where there's no actual "return" statement-- whatever gets evaluated is returned automatically 06:08:17 How about starting lisp from lisp and monitoring these children through the proc system and killing them before they eat up my machine in some mad dash to memory oblivion. Or communicating to a running lisp from the shell to jetboost my bash. Or piping *trace-output* into an emacs buffer for easy differentiation... For that matter, where's my stream that writes to an emacs buffer via the slime tunnel anyhow. Or a lisp AMI for EC2 SBCL 06:08:17 gifts of love... "Here play with this..." 06:09:06 ^^^you okay there? 06:11:08 -!- kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has left #lisp 06:13:40 -!- lispforlife [~user@103.sub-75-201-57.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 06:15:55 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:16:12 -!- mega1 [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:16:35 mega1 [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:41 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:24:43 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-202-208.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:26:01 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-202-208.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:21 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:53 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:32:26 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:36:00 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:36:43 -!- bougyman [bougyman@pdpc/supporter/gold/bougyman] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:36:50 bougyman [bougyman@bougyman.com] has joined #lisp 06:39:09 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:10e9:4dc4:b85b:157c] has joined #lisp 06:45:24 -!- tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:10e9:4dc4:b85b:157c] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:46:45 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-214-97-118.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:57:29 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-206-30-170.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:05:20 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 07:11:28 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082AC7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:48 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B32624C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:12:55 -!- ajmorgan [~HackingLe@96.18.164.16] has quit [Quit: ajmorgan] 07:14:24 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:15:05 mrSpec [~Spec@chello089076137084.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 07:15:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@chello089076137084.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 07:15:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:15:36 afekz [~afekz@196-210-236-97.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:21:14 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 07:22:25 in sbcl is there any threading option available other than sb-thread ? 07:27:24 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:27:42 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:28:02 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:30:57 trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 07:31:06 minion: bordeaux-threads 07:31:08 bordeaux-threads: Bordeaux-Threads is a library to write multi-threaded applications in a portable way. http://www.cliki.net/bordeaux-threads 07:31:08 stassats, memo from lichtblau: I've added a comment to your github commonqt issue #1 07:31:21 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:33:11 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:33:11 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 07:33:11 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 07:34:26 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:34:30 if the coast is clear, i've got another question as i am debugging my method that traverses the list 07:35:00 why is it a method? 07:35:13 should it not be? 07:35:29 if there is no reasons to 07:35:45 -!- trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:35:53 well i think i need to; regardless, i'm having an issue here 07:36:03 my result gets stuck into an extra set of parentheses 07:36:25 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:36:25 here is my return statement: cdr(list *currentStudent*) 07:36:32 minion: please tell me about logs 07:36:32 stassats: direct your attention towards logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 07:38:26 it's either wrong, or you're pasting it wrong 07:38:32 so because of the extra set of parentheses, every time i call the function, i have to take the car of it 07:38:40 and (cdr (list anything)) = NIL 07:38:43 BobTheWikipedian: please go read Gentle 07:38:58 (defun getNextStudent(*currentStudent*) cdr(list *currentStudent*) ) 07:39:02 -!- smanek [~smanek@adsl-70-232-160-18.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:39:05 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:39:18 that is wrong on so many accounts... 07:39:39 BobTheWikipedian: you are wasting people's time with questions like these. 07:39:51 well sorry i came here then 07:40:04 BobTheWikipedian: learn Lisp first, then ask questions 07:40:05 good night, i've had it with you folks 07:40:11 BobTheWikipedian: Please refer to a text first. These are extremely elementary. 07:40:12 -!- BobTheWikipedian [4b10e7b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.16.231.185] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:40:25 see, #lisp is so unfriendly! 07:40:48 quality of discussion etc 07:40:57 time for some Expert Topics 07:41:50 -!- afekz [~afekz@196-210-236-97.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: afekz] 07:41:53 Hurray! 07:43:25 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 07:45:03 -!- longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:45:23 longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has joined #lisp 07:45:40 Does that mean that most people should leave now, being no experts or topics? 07:46:32 there is another option: being silent 07:47:07 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 07:56:55 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:03:12 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.66.10.241.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 08:03:45 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:04:34 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.105] has joined #lisp 08:05:35 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:08:26 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:08:27 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.3.65] has joined #lisp 08:08:27 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:12:09 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Client Quit] 08:15:13 *flip214* is trying to find more options 08:19:24 -!- chp [3d87a5ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.135.165.174] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:19:25 -!- Arelius [d0507552@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.80.117.82] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:19:25 -!- fogus_ [c6970d0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.151.13.15] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:24:09 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:25:47 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:27:02 -!- c|mell [~cmell@196.44.252.93] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:31:59 gah! i thought asdf was ugly... and then i tried to compile the latest gcc... *makes gurgling noises* 08:32:32 ha ha ha 08:33:52 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-111-231.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 08:34:58 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:35:14 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:28 H4ns` [~user@pD4B9E9AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:31 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9E9AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:36:17 chp [3d87a5ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.135.165.174] has joined #lisp 08:36:17 fogus_ [c6970d0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.151.13.15] has joined #lisp 08:39:03 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:39:18 bsod1 [~osa1@88.244.225.231] has joined #lisp 08:39:52 Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has joined #lisp 08:41:17 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 08:41:22 -!- mulander [mulander@078088239019.lubin.vectranet.pl] has left #lisp 08:43:01 srcerer__ 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276 seconds] 08:53:45 ASau [~user@83.149.9.173] has joined #lisp 08:54:04 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.3.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:27 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.3.65] has joined #lisp 08:54:32 vandemar [nonserviam@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 08:54:37 dmiles_akf [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:23 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:55:23 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 08:55:23 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:55:44 hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:55:49 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:56:19 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has joined #lisp 08:57:05 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:57:23 I want to open a stream to file , issue is if the file does not exist , it should create a new one and if it exists then it should append to the current file 08:57:28 ^^ how can I do that ? 08:57:41 open has lots of mysterious arguments for things like that. 08:57:49 Zhivago, I tied (open "/junk/test.txt" :direction :output :if-exists :append) 08:58:15 never worked telling "No such file or directory" 08:58:40 (with-open-file (stream "file" :direction :output :if-exists :append :if-does-not-exist :create) ...) 08:59:19 trying 08:59:54 stassats, thanks 09:04:14 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 09:04:51 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.170.59.65] has joined #lisp 09:04:51 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.170.59.65] has quit [Changing host] 09:04:51 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:06:52 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 09:06:58 -!- risent [~risent@ip-67-202-107-128.static.chi2.systeminplace.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:06:59 araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has joined #lisp 09:06:59 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has quit [Changing host] 09:06:59 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:07:21 risent [~risent@ip-67-202-107-128.static.chi2.systeminplace.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:08 kenanb [~kenanb@88.243.169.186] has joined #lisp 09:08:28 is there any string processing library which can give me functions like replace-all ? 09:09:04 cl-ppcre 09:09:31 ok 09:11:07 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:11:42 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:11:45 pchrist [~spirit@athedsl-4503561.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 09:11:45 -!- pchrist [~spirit@athedsl-4503561.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Changing host] 09:11:45 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:12:43 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:13:45 kral [~kral@93.185.125.210] has joined #lisp 09:13:54 namaste 09:14:54 tfb [~tfb@92.41.228.120.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:15:08 kral, where are you from ? 09:15:22 kushal: italy 09:15:38 but I really like the meaning of namaste 09:15:44 kral, oh ok :) 09:16:19 -!- dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:16:25 the typical italian greeting, "ciao" derives from "sciavo" 09:16:38 a venetian word meaning slave 09:16:54 ok 09:17:07 don't like it very much 09:17:07 I learned ciao in flickr :p 09:17:16 :) 09:17:47 mega1_ [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:52 I live near venice, so I know the dialects of the zone 09:18:29 -!- mega1 [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:20:35 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:25:38 -!- mega1_ [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:28:55 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: zZzZzZz] 09:29:27 -!- devinus_ [~devinus@cpe-66-68-82-202.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:44 freddie111 [~user@150.140.227.243] has joined #lisp 09:30:54 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 09:31:11 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 09:32:11 -!- srcerer__ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:38:33 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-152-181-62.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:41:30 -!- oconnore [~eric@wsip-70-168-242-70.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:42:29 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:43:27 kral: well it's meaning is more of 'at your service'... 09:43:58 kral: and slave itself derives from slavic, so ciao means slavic :P 09:44:36 abeaumont_: not exactly 09:44:49 the sclavus = slavic was invented by nazis iirc 09:45:21 p_l|uni: doesn't seem so -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciao 09:45:42 abeaumont_: i agree with the first part, "at your service", is not so bad. anyway I prefer use namaste :) 09:47:09 abeaumont_: hmm... I'd need to check further, it's one of the topics where I'd check further than wikipedia :) 09:47:25 pocket_ [~pocket_@p1124-ipbf1004hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:47:31 Hi 09:47:50 How can I convert vector to string? Is there any function to do this? 09:48:09 #(1 4 "hello" 4) => "14hello4" 09:48:11 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:32 kral: well, in fact etimologically namaste's and ciao's meaning seem quite the same :) 09:49:01 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:49:35 one way is (format nil "~{~A~}" (coerce vector 'list)) 09:49:47 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.222] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:50:34 or (apply #'concatenate 'string (map 'list 'princ-to-string #(1 4 "hello" 4))) 09:50:35 (with-output-to-string (*standard-output*) (map nil #'princ #(1 4 "hello" 4))) 09:51:34 p_l|uni: ok, wiktionary doesn't serve either then i guess... :) http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sclavus 09:51:41 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51:42 Thanks. 09:52:48 abeaumont_: OT, for that stuff there's #linguistics 09:53:07 true, though for me, EOT :) 09:55:05 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:55:16 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:19 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@88.244.225.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:58:38 fe[nl]ix: right, sorry 10:00:28 -!- ASau [~user@83.149.9.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:00:34 H4ns` [~user@pD4B9ED59.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:10 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu184.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:04:25 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9E9AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:04:56 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.245] has joined #lisp 10:07:05 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:07:54 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:08:21 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-8-91.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:31 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 10:10:14 azathoth99 [~g@pool-173-60-208-79.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:18 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@88.243.169.186] has left #lisp 10:15:08 -!- Ocaso [~chatzilla@203.156.243.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:20 Guthur [c743cb8e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.142] has joined #lisp 10:19:53 bsod1 [~osa1@88.244.169.37] has joined #lisp 10:20:53 -!- chp [3d87a5ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.135.165.174] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:21:56 -!- pocket_ [~pocket_@p1124-ipbf1004hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:30:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-127.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:31:57 mpederse` [~user@70.90.14.154] has joined #lisp 10:33:35 -!- mpedersen [~user@70.90.14.154] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:33:38 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu184.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:33:42 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:34:14 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:34:14 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 10:35:15 nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has joined #lisp 10:35:15 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 10:35:15 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 10:45:27 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:51:41 afekz [~afekz@196-210-236-97.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:53:29 -!- azathoth99 [~g@pool-173-60-208-79.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54:56 maus [~maus@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:11 -!- maus [~maus@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:56:12 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:58:50 -!- longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has quit [Quit: longshot] 10:59:55 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@88.244.169.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:59:55 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 11:01:10 bsod1 [~osa1@88.244.229.201] has joined #lisp 11:02:44 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 11:03:32 -!- jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03:51 Xach: i was reading through the log and i saw your question on merging relative pathnames 11:04:36 i think (merge-pathnames #p"tmp/x.lisp" #p"tmp/y.lisp") => #p"tmp/tmp/x.lisp" is the correct result 11:05:06 relative directories kind-of concatenate, while name, type and version are replaced 11:05:58 setting *d-p-d* to (truename *d-p-d*) will "work", but it will also hide potential problems 11:06:09 -!- afekz [~afekz@196-210-236-97.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: afekz] 11:06:19 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:56 (merge-pathnames #p"tmp/x.lisp" (truename #p"tmp/y.lisp")) will give you 2 tmp dirs as well, right? 11:08:34 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 11:14:54 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:57 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:29 pmd: Thanks. I was having a problem and incorrectly blamed it on that surprising (to me) behavior. The actual problem (for me) was in the initial value of *default-pathname-defaults*. 11:21:30 kramer3d [81aebe60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.96] has joined #lisp 11:21:31 preyalone [81aebe7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.126] has joined #lisp 11:21:43 -!- kramer3d [81aebe60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.96] has quit [Changing host] 11:21:43 kramer3d [81aebe60@unaffiliated/kramer3d] has joined #lisp 11:21:43 -!- kramer3d [81aebe60@unaffiliated/kramer3d] has quit [Changing host] 11:21:43 kramer3d [81aebe60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.96] has joined #lisp 11:22:47 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:22:52 Xach: what was (the problem with) its value? 11:23:21 pmd: I expected (merge-pathnames "tmp/x.txt") to always return an absolute pathname with the initial value of *default-pathname-defaults*. 11:23:39 -!- kramer3d [81aebe60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.96] has quit [Client Quit] 11:23:39 pmd: However, on ccl and cmucl *d-p-d* starts as #p"" so the merge-pathnames returns a relative pathname. 11:23:53 pmd: that made rename-file do some things I didn't understand. 11:23:55 kramer3d [81aebe60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.96] has joined #lisp 11:24:02 -!- kramer3d [81aebe60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.96] has quit [Changing host] 11:24:02 kramer3d [81aebe60@unaffiliated/kramer3d] has joined #lisp 11:24:02 -!- kramer3d [81aebe60@unaffiliated/kramer3d] has quit [Changing host] 11:24:02 kramer3d [81aebe60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.96] has joined #lisp 11:24:06 :D 11:24:06 i didn't realize rename-file defaulted the new filename against the old one, for example. 11:24:14 It does not set it to the cwd? 11:24:18 preyalone_ [81aebe7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.126] has joined #lisp 11:24:22 hi preyalone 11:24:24 tcr: it does not, nor is it required to. 11:24:55 What's sensible in not doing it? 11:25:08 -!- xinming [~hyy@218.73.131.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:25:21 tcr: i don't know. preserving historical practice? 11:25:25 preyalone: it cant be done 11:25:59 tcr: it's easy enough to fix by using (truename *d-p-d*) or (truename "./") 11:26:16 -!- preyalone [81aebe7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:26:32 Help! zip:write-zipentry tries to interpret the data argument as a filename instead of a stream. 11:27:02 xinming [~hyy@115.221.13.223] has joined #lisp 11:27:19 preyalone_: is it a stream? 11:28:20 jdz: I used flexi-streams:string-to-octets to turn my string into a byte array. 11:29:08 jdz: I guess not, but I don't know how to turn the byte array into a stream. 11:29:21 preyalone_: write it to a temporary file, pass the filename. 11:29:29 (mc andre? is that you?) 11:29:41 Xach: yes. 11:29:52 How did your home directory permissions get screwed up? 11:30:28 Xach: I suppose that's why I need to sudo CLISP before Quicklisp can install things. 11:30:29 preyalone_: why is your bytes a string? 11:30:44 You can also use flexi-streams to produce a stream from a byte array. see http://weitz.de/flexi-streams/#with-input-from-sequence 11:31:01 jdz: Since I needed to read bytes from an entry in the zip file, I assumed I need to write bytes back. 11:31:17 preyalone_: Well, that's a little like saying you "need" to climb in the window because the door is locked. You actually need to unlock the door. 11:32:54 preyalone_: if you read bytes, how come you have a string? 11:33:44 jdz: I read bytes, then used flexi-streams:octets-to-string to convert the data to a string (HTML code) so that I could tweak it. 11:35:56 Xach: 5 => "5" => 5. DATA => YYENCODE => DATA. It's natural to reverse these processes, likewise natural to assume that one must "climb in the window" if one previously jumped out. 11:36:01 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:36:46 chp [~chp@114.113.64.164] has joined #lisp 11:40:05 Is there a tutorial on writing to zip files in Common Lisp? 11:40:21 -!- mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:41 I tried googling it. My blog post about it popped up as the third result. Just my luck. 11:40:42 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-1-126.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:41:01 minion: memo for ivan4th: I merged your changes and added marshalling for QList, but encountered the following issue https://github.com/stassats/commonqt/issues/issue/2 11:41:01 Remembered. I'll tell ivan4th when he/she/it next speaks. 11:41:53 jdz and Xach: http://pastebin.ca/1994434 11:42:07 *stassats* keeps fighting the bloody markdown in the issue tracker 11:42:14 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-111-231.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:42:57 hello #lisp! 11:43:07 it would've been much faster and prettier in plain text 11:44:46 -!- delYsid` is now known as delYsid 11:46:27 pocket_ [~pocket_@p1124-ipbf1004hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:48:35 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-118-13.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:48:54 preyalone_: There are no tutorials for writing zip files. 11:50:12 preyalone_: It's better to write a system file than to stick quickloads in your source code. http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html has some info about doing that. 11:50:21 Xach: The weird thing is that zip:write-zipentry takes a zipwriter, entry name, and data as arguments, but an error trace implies that the data argument is misinterpreted as the entry name argument. 11:51:16 preyalone_: Paste the error, too. 11:52:09 enupten [~neptune@117.254.153.93] has joined #lisp 11:52:10 Xach: Trace. http://pastebin.ca/1994440 11:52:13 syntard__ [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:50 -!- syntard [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:52:55 -!- syntard__ is now known as syntard 11:53:41 Xach: I agree that it would be better to write a system file. I'll do that after the script works. 11:53:49 preyalone_: I don't see a call to write-zipentry in your code. Is there more code somewhere? 11:54:13 -!- kramer3d [81aebe60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.96] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:54:18 Xach: I'm using SLIME to test my functions. The code that causes the error is (zip:write-zipentry *epub-out* secname newhtml) 11:54:59 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.132.195] has joined #lisp 11:55:39 Xach: where *epub-out* is the zip file to write to, secname is "OEBPS/....libraries.html", and newhtml is " ... " 11:56:03 didn't you figure out that error yourself two pages earlier in the scrollback? What happened to passing in a stream instead of a bogus string? 11:56:48 kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-wusayjmevktvzfdp] has joined #lisp 11:57:02 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:57:30 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.254.153.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58:34 Admittedly, the API could be more flexible, and write-zipentry is, in fact, a generic function in the fork that hasn't made it into public CVS yet. 11:59:14 Xach: SLIME log. http://pastebin.ca/1994444 12:00:26 Is it so hard for API writers to include an example for every function? 12:00:33 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:29 Xach: I'm going to sleep. Email me any thoughts on my code. Peace out. 12:01:33 -!- preyalone_ [81aebe7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.126] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:01:39 yes, those API writers really need to get their act together. 12:01:58 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 12:02:17 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-wusayjmevktvzfdp] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:02:31 *stassats* denounces himself as an API writer 12:04:05 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:04:29 -!- sentry [~sentry@ec2-72-44-49-66.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:05:21 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:06:14 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 12:08:08 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:09:56 nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has joined #lisp 12:09:56 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 12:09:56 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:10:36 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:11:55 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:12:31 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.105] has joined #lisp 12:13:19 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-lbilyvsryiqshdum] has joined #lisp 12:13:19 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-lbilyvsryiqshdum] has quit [Changing host] 12:13:19 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:14:40 -!- kral [~kral@93.185.125.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:14:59 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 12:19:17 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:19:48 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:36 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@88.244.229.201] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:21:35 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-0-248-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:21 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 12:22:48 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 12:23:32 bsod1 [~osa1@88.244.230.119] has joined #lisp 12:24:22 pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:55 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-0-248-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:27:55 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.66.10.241.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:28:53 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-118-13.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:29:00 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:29:07 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@88.244.230.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:08 kral [~kral@93.185.125.210] has joined #lisp 12:39:30 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:10 -!- kral [~kral@93.185.125.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:42:41 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:43:03 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-118-13.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:43:27 I need to join a pair of lists, that is take their Cartesian product, but filtering the output pairs to take only those that meet a certain condition. I can do it with a pair of nested Loops; is that considered good/idiomatic style, or is there another way that's preferred? 12:44:01 I'd use a SQL db for that 12:44:12 o_O 12:44:21 rwallace: there are many preferences - i'd probably use mapcar and remove 12:44:30 rwallace: it's fine. 12:44:40 rwallace: (which boils down to two nested lists, too :) ) 12:44:42 fe[nl]ix, so would I if I was dealing with data from an SQL DB :-) 12:44:48 s/lists/loops/ 12:45:28 rwallace: I'd do that in the query, obviously 12:45:52 H4ns, hmm, I see. That does make sense, probably both are equally valid style 12:46:08 fe[nl]ix, well yes, that's the kind of thing SQL is good at. But what I'm doing doesn't involve a database 12:46:30 rwallace: style can't be "valid", but yes :) 12:47:14 H4ns, you wouldn't say that if you've seen some of the styles I've seen ;-) 12:47:17 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743]] 12:47:34 rwallace: some people probably would not call those "styles" 12:47:44 jdz: that's what i wanted to say. 12:47:55 jdz, true :-) 12:49:09 it's really about how restrictive the condition is. If it matches almost every pair, the nested loop or nested mapcar is a good approach. 12:49:12 kral [~kral@93.185.125.210] has joined #lisp 12:49:31 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:49:41 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:49:42 It will probably match only a minority of pairs 12:50:14 rwallace: are the lists large? are you going to call the function often? 12:50:14 when the condition is narrow, the rdbms can often optimize by only walking the index instead of the entire table -- that's the primary advantage. 12:50:36 Obviously it would run faster by maintaining some kind of index, but I'm still at the "get it working first, then worry about optimization later" stage 12:50:42 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:57 Yuuhi [benni@p5483DA98.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:12 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 12:52:30 can anyone leave a memo with minion? 12:52:48 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:53:16 Harag: yes 12:54:27 fe[nl]ix: is there syntax help for minion? 12:54:57 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 12:54:58 minion: memo for Harag: this is how you leave a memo 12:54:58 Remembered. I'll tell Harag when he/she/it next speaks. 12:55:17 minion: memo for hypno: I need to talk to you dewd... 12:55:18 Remembered. I'll tell hypno when he/she/it next speaks. 12:55:18 Harag, memo from fe[nl]ix: this is how you leave a memo 12:55:30 fe[nl]ix: thank you 12:55:34 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:55:36 Harag: /msg minion help for more 12:57:51 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-122-27.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:55 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00:36 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-49.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00:58 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.51.89] has joined #lisp 13:01:37 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 13:03:06 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 13:03:47 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.245] has joined #lisp 13:04:12 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: Eish!] 13:04:56 harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:05:16 tsuru` 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syntard__ is now known as syntard 13:33:40 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:30 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:36:45 -!- bougyman [bougyman@bougyman.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:36:45 bougyman [bougyman@pdpc/supporter/gold/bougyman] has joined #lisp 13:37:05 reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 13:37:08 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-8-91.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:38:55 SimianShine [c9a0f27e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.160.242.126] has joined #lisp 13:39:38 -!- SimianShine [c9a0f27e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.160.242.126] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 13:42:23 -!- Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:42:37 stassats: I'm here 13:42:37 ivan4th, memo from stassats: I merged your changes and added marshalling for QList, but encountered the following issue https://github.com/stassats/commonqt/issues/issue/2 13:42:48 -!- pocket_ [~pocket_@p1124-ipbf1004hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:44 stassats: will try to fix it tonight 13:43:59 Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:44:11 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-218-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:20 ivan4th: and have you seen lichtblau's comment on https://github.com/stassats/commonqt/issues/issue/1 ? 13:44:52 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.222] has joined #lisp 13:45:04 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [SeaMonkey 2.0.9/20100930132633]] 13:46:29 stassats: yes, I see it... I don't think there's a point in trying to do something else if other bindings choose this route 13:47:08 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.170.32.191] has joined #lisp 13:47:08 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.170.32.191] has quit [Changing host] 13:47:08 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 13:47:14 ivan4th: and i think the fact that i need to specify :|int| as an argument to QKeySequence constructor is related to the issue 13:47:26 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.66.10.241.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:48:25 will check it later today... btw, I don't quite get why we need to define macros in the #_ reader macro. This breaks RT and may break other things that make use of delayed compilation 13:49:49 I'm thinking about asking on the kdebindings list about this, since it seems rather disappointing that the x_ classes aren't doing virtual method calls. What if an object gets returned that wasn't created through bindings, but came straight from C++ code? In that case we can't ever have superior type information in the cache already. 13:49:56 Is there a standard function that works like cons except treating the collection as a set instead of a list, that is, only adding a new element if it wasn't already present? 13:50:12 rwallace: pushnew 13:50:15 rwallace: adjoin 13:50:29 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:50:36 Thanks! 13:50:45 Why ansi spelled "add" wrong we'll never know! 13:50:51 :) 13:51:21 Xach: it's not a misspelling 13:51:50 *Xach* was channeling his inner brucio for a moment 13:52:07 to avoid confusion with +? 13:52:52 mije [5641b192@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.65.177.146] has joined #lisp 13:53:47 I'm also readying to try CommonQt on CCL/ARM (N900)... I'll have to do it sooner or later anyway and I hope this will help me to better understand CommonQt performance problems everyone is talking about :) I've squashed some bugs in CCL FFI on ARM yesterday, though some are still left (double-float handling causing memfaults etc.), will post a ticket to ccl trac & some patches soon 13:53:57 ivan4th: the macro hack is a trick I picked up from clozure cl's FFI. I tried several other approaches and it's only solution that really worked for me. 13:55:25 ivan4th, does CCL work otherwise reasonably well on N900? 13:55:25 i only had performance problems when exchanging too much data at once 13:55:31 CommonQt performance is currently "not that bad" if it hits the cache, but cache misses are really expensive. 13:55:55 CCL is the big bad test case for this -- no matter whether on ARM or not, the performance on CCL is so bad that missing the caches goes from sluggish to unbelievably slow. 13:56:20 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@72.243.126.114] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:29 Whereas SBCL is so quick by default that even cache misses seemed tolerable to me in the beginning. 13:57:03 azuk: I didn't spend much time trying different apps but on the surface it works ok if things don't involve FFI 13:57:07 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:57:30 lichtblau: ok, thanks, I understand now... Will try and see what can be done about this... 13:57:53 jweiss_ [~jweiss@72.243.126.114] has joined #lisp 13:57:55 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 13:58:18 lichtblau: i think there are some optional slot reader optimizations that can be enabled in ccl. maybe those help. 13:58:22 metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has joined #lisp 13:58:22 making marshalling QList using only one ffi call for all string should improve performance in my use-case 13:58:40 ... so I expect CommonQt performace on Cortex A8 platform to be abysmal... I'll *have* to do something about it 13:59:23 i tried to make a model completely in lisp, but qt wants data from lisp on every redraw, which is more sluggish than sending all the data at once to qt 13:59:59 minimizing round-trips should help also 14:01:28 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:01:35 how does the approach of CommonQt using that kde smoke library extend to libraries layered on top of Qt? 14:02:35 H4ns: aha, that is good to know. While CommonQt uses CLOS to some extent, the problems here mostly independent of CLOS though. It's all FFI stuff. 14:02:38 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:02:58 Well, FFI, and a lot of little LAMBDAs shiftings bits around. 14:03:13 lichtblau: ok. 14:03:50 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:04:19 -!- bsod1_ [~osa1@85.100.79.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:26 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.222] has joined #lisp 14:04:44 -!- Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 14:05:38 another interesting thing would be to eliminate marshalling of objects which you only want to pass around 14:06:26 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:47 -!- freddie111 [~user@150.140.227.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:57 stassats: I think we need some benchmarking code, David was talking about that before. BTW, should we just write some simple timing funcs or some existing solution should be used? 14:08:04 muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:55 i'm not aware of existing solutions 14:09:27 my existing microbenchmarks are at http://www.lichteblau.com/tmp/qtbench/ 14:09:33 Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:09:47 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.211] has joined #lisp 14:09:55 lichtblau: thanks. 14:10:59 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:12:12 it's only testing cache hits with trivial argument lists though. 14:12:12 Hemlock's redisplay was my other important test and benchmark case, i.e. find a large file and vigorously scroll down. Should be possible to turn it into a self-contained benchmark. 14:13:28 my test-case is populating QListView with a large number of rows 14:14:14 we need to run an Xvfb or similar server in the background to be able to test GUI classes, or is there a headless Qt testing solution? 14:15:40 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:22 lichtblau: seems like there isn't, so indeed we'll need Xvfb 14:19:07 -!- risent [~risent@ip-67-202-107-128.static.chi2.systeminplace.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:21:11 -!- trigen- [~MSX@81.18.253.210] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:21:55 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:27:05 -!- muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:57 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 14:30:27 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@245-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 14:30:40 is there a way to use quicklisp behind a proxy ? 14:31:32 mije: read the FAQ 14:31:41 ok sorry 14:32:29 CAHb14 [~hecpopmaj@83.149.49.139] has joined #lisp 14:33:08 -!- CAHb14 [~hecpopmaj@83.149.49.139] has left #lisp 14:33:19 p_l|home [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:33:20 mije: as long as your proxy doesn't need a username and password, it should work fine with the :proxy option. 14:33:49 yep i usually use cntlm in order to fix it 14:35:11 CAHb14 [~hecpopmaj@83.149.49.139] has joined #lisp 14:36:13 CCL's FFI overhead can become noticeable when the foreign functions don't do much work. 14:36:52 ))) 14:37:01 -!- CAHb14 [~hecpopmaj@83.149.49.139] has left #lisp 14:37:54 CAHb14 [~hecpopmaj@83.149.49.139] has joined #lisp 14:38:14 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-179-143.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:18 mije: please let me know if it works ok for you. 14:40:06 Anyone have any emacs snippits to enable highlighting of quoted/quasiquoted contents? 14:40:17 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:45 maybe #emacs is better to ask, sorry 14:41:11 Xach: it doesn't, because of the CLISP 2.49 bug that is mentioned in the release notes 14:41:32 i'm gonna fetch an other version of clisp 14:43:18 mije: oh? darn, i hoped that was worked-around in asdf 2.010 14:43:31 mije: do you have the latest bootstrapping stuff? 14:43:41 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@150.254.74.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:43 that is, how long ago did you download the stuff? today? 14:44:03 (thank you for checking the release notes!) 14:44:18 Xach: nope it's an old thing, i have to update 14:44:40 -!- CAHb14 [~hecpopmaj@83.149.49.139] has quit [Quit: CAHb14] 14:44:55 mije: ah, that might help, then. 14:44:56 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:05 mije: i recently tried out ccl on windows and it worked pretty nicely, for what it's worth. 14:46:12 i'll give it a try, it's really painful to live under windows 14:46:35 I hope quicklisp helps a bit. 14:48:15 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:05 muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:50 rukowen [~thehien@222.253.78.181] has joined #lisp 14:50:49 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:28 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu184.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:55:33 -!- mpederse` is now known as mpedersen 14:56:02 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 14:57:51 bsod1 [~osa1@85.100.79.146] has joined #lisp 14:58:31 Xach: i hope it will, i'm a complete newbie with common lisp, and the few times i've tried do to things with asdf i've utterly failed 15:01:39 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@245-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:01:59 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-102-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:05:43 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:48 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@245-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 15:06:24 mije: if you are just learning, ACL and LW have "personal" edition usable for beginners 15:07:02 (ACL works with current quicklisp, haven't tested LW) 15:07:50 lispworks works also 15:07:58 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-102-240.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:15 inability to load an init file is an inconvenience, though 15:08:23 yes. 15:08:34 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.80.52] has joined #lisp 15:08:37 -!- dnm [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:09:18 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:42 I kind of wish allegro and lispworks had a "free for free software" license option. 15:12:02 Things change slowly sometimes. 15:12:52 I guess the concern is that alisp or lispworks would be used to develop software that would be sold /w sbcl or clozure cl? idk 15:12:55 Fade: Look on the bright side: SBCL has such a license! 15:12:58 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host74-180-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:13:05 hee hee 15:13:10 I love sbcl. it's my favourite program. :) 15:13:25 aw, bless your little cockles 15:13:31 hope i'll be stable for windows though 15:14:02 I should keep my amazon wishlist up to date 15:14:06 I'd like to play a bit with allegro graph, but I doubt you'd get far with the heap on the personal addition. 15:14:16 *edition 15:14:18 jesu 15:14:35 Fade: blame it on autocorrection 15:14:56 I'm still in the middle of my neural startup proceedure. 15:16:26 So Clozure actually supports compiler macros in theory, it only ignores them depending on optimization policy (including, apparently, in the default settings). 15:16:58 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:18:26 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:19:24 Fade: someone won an allegrograph license at ilc. that could have been you! 15:19:43 :) 15:20:14 lichtblau: I think you may be mistaken. How are you testing this? 15:20:23 *Xach* would store *so many* triples if he had been the winner :( 15:20:35 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-209-206.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:45 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:53 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 15:21:07 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-195-1-167.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:22 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 15:21:47 all the cool kids are storing quadruples these days anyway 15:23:37 including allegrograph 15:23:48 -!- rukowen [~thehien@222.253.78.181] has left #lisp 15:24:03 rukowen [~thehien@222.253.78.181] has joined #lisp 15:26:16 rme: My test case is (defun a () :slow) (define-compiler-macro a () :fast) (defun b (a)) all in the same file; after compiling and loading I'm calling (b). 15:26:21 I'm running 1.4-r13119, and what I'm seeing in nx0.lisp is that compiler macros are only being expanded if nx-allow-transforms returns true, which is dependent on (and (/= compilation-speed 3) (or (/= speed 0) (and (/= safety 3) (/= debug 3)))). 15:27:07 1.4! 15:27:14 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:27:14 that is like sbcl 0.8! 15:27:25 kenanb [~kenanb@88.243.169.186] has joined #lisp 15:27:48 Or maybe sbcl 1.0.28 15:29:10 lichtblau: I don't remember if they were different in 1.4, but the default optimizations are currently all 1, which should pass that test. 15:29:22 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:46 Xach: When is the last time you frobnicated something? 15:29:59 Quadrescence: Not sure. What time is it? 15:30:02 aha. My defaults have actually have been tainted by previously loaded code, too. 15:31:05 Xach: The time is ,@(GET-CURRENT-TIME) 15:32:36 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:33:15 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 15:33:50 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-57-69.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:34:10 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 15:34:58 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Quit] 15:35:06 please anyone tell me, I want to get re result of (/10 3) 15:35:13 Saturnation [~dsouth@pool-64-222-91-20.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:14 I respect 3.33333 15:35:20 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu184.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:35:35 but the result is floor (3.3333) = 3 15:35:40 rukowen: 10/3 seems like a fine answer to me (assuming you insert spaces where needed). 15:35:43 longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has joined #lisp 15:36:00 yes yes, (/ 10 3) 15:36:21 (floor 10 3) 15:37:01 I get 10/3 here 15:37:02 Quadrescence: it still 3 :( 15:37:20 rukowen: are you using a common lisp implementation? 15:37:41 rukowen: oh, you want 3.333... 15:37:41 pkhuong_: yes, i am 15:37:47 which is that? 15:38:21 pkhuong_: Emacs 22 15:38:42 :) 15:38:47 any of you ever do native plugins? 15:38:50 Quadrescence: yes, 3.3333 is that i wat 15:38:51 rukowen: pkhuong_ was referring to a Common Lisp implementation, not a common Lisp implementation. 15:39:02 rukowen: ask in #emacs. 15:39:06 rukowen: Are you using emacs lisp? 15:39:07 *Xach* is reminded of helping his Uncle Jack off a horse. 15:39:13 um 15:39:14 Xach: ;) 15:39:40 longshot: native to what? 15:39:52 longshot: There's an interesting Lisp-powered Photoshop plugin called Sitegrinder 3. 15:40:43 Xach: plugin isn't the best word perhaps. I mean linking against a C library, trying to figure out a way to do it that will work across different lisp implementations. 15:41:17 longshot: Oh, that's pretty straightforward with CFFI. 15:41:38 longshot: see for example cl-opengl. 15:42:25 Xach: CFFI? I'll google it, I'm a bit of a newb, just started learning after land of lisp came out. 15:43:09 longshot: the generic term for calling C (or other languages) from Lisp is called FFI, for Foreign Function Interface. CFFI is a portable FFI. Works on many CLs. 15:44:08 Xach: alright, thanks a lot, I'll go figure out what I'm doing :) 15:45:54 longshot: http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/Tutorial.html might help, too 15:46:42 Holy crap, slime got awesomer since I last updated. 15:47:13 Which bits? 15:47:29 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-118-13.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:47:29 Or did your version just have a really long beard? 15:47:43 the progress bar and underlining my warnings, for example. 15:47:59 progress bar? 15:48:09 tcr: When compiling 15:48:38 Whatever you call all the ....... in th minibuffer 15:48:55 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-118-13.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:49:01 i recently have been amazed by the powers of slime-who-macroexpands in combination with slime-recompile-all-xrefs 15:50:03 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:50:22 ASau [~user@95-24-130-119.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:50:26 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:50:42 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:50:44 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-57-69.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:46 jdz: You do know about slime-edit-uses (M-?) right? It subsumes who-macroexpands and has an easy keybinding 15:50:58 milanj [~milanj_@212-200-194-82.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:51:18 tcr: now i know 15:51:20 thanks 15:51:54 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-130-119.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:43 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:15 jdz: Also C-c C-c works in sldb on a frame and recompiles the underlaying toplevel form. I.e. C-u C-c C-c will recompile the function of the frame with maximum debug setting, so you can then restart from a frame underneath and get more information 15:53:29 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:29 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:32 tcr: I've used that quite a bit lately. 15:56:46 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212-200-194-82.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:57:36 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@88.243.169.186] has left #lisp 15:57:42 i optimize for debugging while developing, so most frames already are green 15:58:08 tcr: but more thanks 15:58:47 i put restrict-compiler-policy debug 2 couple of weeks ago in my init file 15:58:58 i don't know how i lived without restartable frames 15:59:30 especially on something long-running or something which takes some time to set-up 15:59:47 stassats: careful that wlll break trying to build sbcl 15:59:53 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 15:59:54 and least it did for me at some point 16:00:04 -!- fogus_ [c6970d0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.151.13.15] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:00:56 i'm not using ~/.sbclrc as an init file, and the sbcl i'm using to compile sbcl isn't setup to load that init file 16:01:38 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-77-254.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:01:51 (i'm using a shared initfile for all implementations) 16:03:11 Good evening everyone! 16:04:11 hi beach 16:05:32 beach: i was wondering, how easy would it be to make SICL run over a set of primitives? 16:05:54 like, for instance, having a CL on top of JavaScript or 16:07:05 pmd: That's the thought. Like the almost-finished cons-high module implements the conses dictionary using only car, cdr, rplaca, rplacd at runtime (and loop at compile time). 16:07:33 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:33 <`3b`> don't forget error/condition stuff :) 16:07:42 Right, sorry. 16:07:51 And `defun', etc. 16:08:21 beach: nice :) i recently checked out ABCL for some experiments and i noticed it has quite a lot of code that could be replaced with SICL 16:08:50 beach: not because it would be better, but probably because it would be more homogeneous 16:09:13 pmd: Yes, I am hoping (though I am not that hopeful really) that some existing implementations will prefer SICL modules to corresponding implementation-dependent code. 16:09:30 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:49 beach: I think the value might lie in people who want to experiment with CL design ideas but who don't want to do a lot of the possibly-boring work. 16:10:03 beach: that is, new CLs, not updates to existing ones 16:10:04 pmd: Well, my goal is to make the SICL modules such high quality that it would be hard to resist. Error reporting is better, docstrings are better, performance is sometimes better. 16:10:21 Xach: Yes, I think you are right. 16:10:26 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:36 -!- chp [~chp@114.113.64.164] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:10:50 beach: i like one thing you do very much: more specific conditions than just the required by the standard 16:10:51 Bronsa [~bronsa@host74-180-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:11:12 if only that was the standard 16:11:19 pmd: Yes, that's one of my better ideas. 16:12:05 kaemo [~mad5ci@150.254.74.153] has joined #lisp 16:14:19 -!- Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:15:10 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:34 pmd: Another one (at least I think so now :)) is to avoid that standard functions call other standard function that might fail, so that error reporting can always be done in terms of the standard function that was called directly by user code. 16:16:31 fnags [50d44bb6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.212.75.182] has joined #lisp 16:16:34 lol 16:16:40 -!- fnags [50d44bb6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.212.75.182] has left #lisp 16:16:40 *Xach* is reminded of asdf's "NIL is not an integer" with < as the calling function, when the actual problem was a missing file. 16:16:43 -!- syntard_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:16:56 Xach: Yeah, stuff like that! 16:17:32 syntard_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has joined #lisp 16:18:42 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:03 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:20:22 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:28 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:21:37 *luis* is a little bit saddened that Dmitry Ignatiev decided to write a new FFI on top of CFFI instead of contributing to CFFI itself; but at least it's got a liberal license so I can just steal whatever interesting ideas he comes up with :) 16:22:12 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:01 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:37 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:52 mega1 [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:27 mega1: Submission deadline had better come soon! 16:28:58 yes, I want to get back my life 16:29:30 mega1: That will happen soon I suppose, but oh the glory if you win! 16:29:31 but I have a big, unsubmitted improvement 16:30:06 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.132.195] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:30:17 mega1: I don't know the rules, but is it possible to test in advance how such an improvement would perform? 16:30:45 mega1: So the strategy is to keep it until the last minute? 16:30:55 there are two unofficial servers 16:30:58 http://72.44.46.68/getratings 16:31:10 http://zeroviz.us:8080/getratings 16:31:52 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-101-71-212.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:48 mega1: Not sure how to interpret those. Can you give an "executive summary"? 16:32:56 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 16:33:09 100 elo point difference is 75% chance of winning 16:33:38 they lost _one_ game out of 96 16:33:42 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 16:33:47 (and there was a timeout) 16:33:48 -!- superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: superflit] 16:34:00 superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:03 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:55 mega1: But I suppose someone else could withhold an improvement until the last minute, right? 16:35:11 I'm considering to be one of them too. 16:35:17 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:35:19 Right. 16:35:44 Either way, I am very impressed! 16:35:59 thanks 16:36:00 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@150.254.74.153] has quit [Quit: *puff*] 16:36:10 mega1: I am also following this because a colleague of mine has been coaching the University of Bordeaux entries. 16:36:56 ah, medrimonia, yes 16:38:45 -!- superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:39:20 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:49 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-209-206.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:43:28 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:43:33 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-211-152.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:11 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:45:24 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:50 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:02 -!- mega1 [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:47:08 lllllluis 16:50:19 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:50:49 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:53 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:56:27 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:34 hey Xach, what's new and exciting? 16:57:17 -!- Guthur [c743cb8e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.142] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:57:33 *p_l|home* just experienced a wonderful case of signal abuse on (l)unix 16:58:58 luis: i feel deeply sad that i can't fix the cffi bug i reported due to lack of time & familiarity with cffi 16:59:11 luis: i am sad (but slightly less so) that nobody else has already done it for me :) 16:59:56 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:02:12 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:02:58 tfb_ [~tfb@92.41.55.216.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:04:21 tfb_: hello 17:04:53 devinus_ [~devinus@65.107.181.222.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:17 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.228.120.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:07:11 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:13 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has joined #lisp 17:07:26 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:07:50 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 17:08:30 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:09:06 -!- kral [~kral@93.185.125.210] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 17:09:33 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754d0f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:03 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:55 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@72.243.126.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:11:03 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-185.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: netytan] 17:11:22 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-1-149.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:11:31 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-1-126.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:11:33 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 17:14:07 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 17:16:04 dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:02 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:21:31 -!- dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 17:21:44 dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:01 srolls [~user@c-76-126-221-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:28 mega1 [~quassel@2001:470:1f05:548:215:58ff:fe7d:773b] has joined #lisp 17:23:45 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 17:23:48 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:23:59 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 17:24:29 -!- tfb_ [~tfb@92.41.55.216.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Quit: tfb_] 17:25:47 Xach: heh, what's the bug #? 17:29:12 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 17:29:35 <`3b`> hefner: https://github.com/3b/glop/tree/xinput2 is my current xinput2 stuff... not particularly useful yet since it just prints out what little it decodes rather than passing it to the app though 17:29:59 -!- Saturnation [~dsouth@pool-64-222-91-20.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:30:01 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:21 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-211-152.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:23 luis: 672586 17:33:44 netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-185.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:28 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-210-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:32 -!- rukowen [~thehien@222.253.78.181] has left #lisp 17:36:21 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 17:37:16 lp #672586 17:37:16 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/672586 17:39:28 -!- reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 17:40:19 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:53 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:41:09 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:50:31 -!- mije [5641b192@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.65.177.146] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:51:33 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-210-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:51:38 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-223-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:49 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 17:56:44 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:00:34 how usable is IOlib on Win32? 18:01:13 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 18:01:16 brandonz [~brandon@c-24-23-169-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:32 "not usable", as far as I know. Hopefully that'll change in the next few months. 18:01:50 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:01:56 afekz [~afekz@196-215-84-133.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:02:52 I've been a little confused about how that will work with the arrival of libfixposix. My impression of iolib development so far has been "I don't use Windows, tough luck if you do." Is that an incorrect impression? How might things change in a few months? 18:03:27 the windows port wouldn't go through libfixposix, I think. There is no posix to fix. 18:03:33 lichtblau: what is missing? Cause I yesterday I managed to finally find a proper async i/o interface on windows 18:03:55 Xach: I'll bump it up on the priority list, but it's been harder lately to find the motivation to hack CL at home, since I use it all day at work. 18:04:10 luis: the perils of the glorious lisp future :( 18:04:17 fe[nl]ix indicated that he would accept patches from others for windows, so that's where the next months enter into it. 18:04:30 lichtblau: one that allows you to wait for activity on other IO channels than Winsock, that is 18:04:42 lichtblau: Do you know of someone who intends to submit patches? 18:04:46 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:50 Xach: lichtblau (and/or one of his coworkers) seem to be interested in porting iolib to windows, using the winapi not the evil/bad posix layer 18:05:00 fe[nl]ix: Ok, that sounds good. 18:06:02 hrmn. there's a symbol clash between cl-fad:delete-directory and ccl:delete-directory 18:06:08 that said, I now have access to a windows(7) machine 18:06:10 p_l|home: if you have ideas to steal, that would certainly come in handy. My uninformed plan was to take a look at the I/O fixes on the windows branch and steal from that sb-bsd-sockets, then take it from there. 18:06:25 so I could try to do something with that 18:07:03 carlocci [~nes@93.37.193.17] has joined #lisp 18:07:07 Fade: http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/ticket/771 18:07:10 lichtblau: I need still to check the interface, but if my hunch proves true (i.e. that it works for file, pipe and socket I/O), then we can have something more interesting than select() and which works for all I/O 18:07:15 Fade: bug in cl-fad. You can continue from the CERROR and it will probably work. 18:07:22 Fade: summary: a cl-fad fix should come out within a couple weeks. 18:07:33 lichtblau: mind you, it's a completely different kind of interface (AIO instead of "check if ready") 18:07:39 yeah, that continuing restart does work. 18:07:47 fe[nl]ix: my iolib/win32 port used a bunch of winapi stuff didn't it? I don't recall. 18:07:52 -!- afekz [~afekz@196-215-84-133.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:08:18 luis: no, it used the almost-posix stuff 18:08:30 _socket(), FDs and such 18:08:38 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-24-23-169-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:08:46 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:09:01 it used WaitForObjects though, didn't it? 18:09:45 hmm, let me check 18:09:55 jweiss_ [~jweiss@114.sub-174-252-149.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 18:09:59 luis: WaitForMultipleObjects and I/O Completion Port 18:11:19 brandonz [~brandon@c-24-23-169-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:39 -!- p_l|home [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: brb] 18:12:05 luis: yes, that's in the multiplexer 18:12:05 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.3.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:13:27 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:13:38 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu184.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:13:57 eugu1 [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:14:13 -!- eugu1 [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Client Quit] 18:14:31 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-127.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:14:32 afekz [~afekz@41.75.226.204] has joined #lisp 18:14:41 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 18:14:45 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:15:27 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:15:35 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:17:40 bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:50 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.157.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:20:34 my init includes the quicklisp fragment, i want to load the quicklisp copy of swank in there, any suggestions for a nice expression to achieve that? other than the fragile peculiar: (load "~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/slime-20101006-cvs/swank-loader.lisp") 18:20:52 bhyde: quicklisp-slime-helper is meant to make that a lot easier. 18:21:03 bhyde: quickload it and it'll suggest what to put in .emacs 18:21:21 oh, but you probably want to start the server outside emacs, huh? 18:21:23 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.218.17] has joined #lisp 18:21:24 i want swank loaded long before the emacs even launchs 18:21:28 :) 18:22:03 Right. sorry. You can find the path in a nicer way with (asdf:system-relative-pathname 'swank "swank-loader.lisp") 18:25:30 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:26:52 it found swank, but not the quicklisp one, it found one further down my *central-registry* ;( 18:27:28 bhyde: ah. if it's visible via the central registry or the asdf2 registry, it overrides quicklisp's. 18:27:54 not just for swank, but for any system. 18:28:25 I'd call that a feature. 18:28:49 The intent is to allow local overrides of quicklisp. It's not without problems, and time will tell if it's the right tradeoff. 18:29:35 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-223-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:29:39 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-210-215.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:41 I'm almost always a demographic outlier, but that behaviour works well for me. 18:29:51 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 18:31:53 -!- ravic [~ravi@118-93-189-209.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:32:09 i think that behavior is sensible, now I just need to puzzle out how to live with it. unsurprisingly ... i have a lot of legacy in my *central-registry* entries 18:33:44 clearly QL works best if the user starts with a clean slate ... (oh gosh ... that would be a nice world to live in) 18:33:44 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:34:15 bhyde: i have a lot of legacy, too, but i found i didn't really miss it, except for the bits of local, unpublished libraries and applications. 18:34:30 bhyde: i lumped those all in one directory tree and added that tree to my asdf2 source registry, and things seem to be working out ok. 18:35:08 casting aside legacy is fun, but it's harder when you have coworkers :) 18:35:40 accursed coworkers! 18:36:12 sometimes they bring donuts 18:39:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:39:10 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-95.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:39:11 drdo [~user@194.210.228.35] has joined #lisp 18:40:17 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 18:43:42 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 18:44:17 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@114.sub-174-252-149.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:13 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:45:51 dnm [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:08 I need to know the windows domain login name of the user that accesses hunchentoot web app on intranet, any ideas? 18:48:39 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:49:25 What's the best way to comment out a block of code in lisp? 18:50:32 #| |# 18:50:45 Thanks! 18:50:52 <`3b`> #+(or) is one way to comment out a specific form 18:51:01 #+(or) code 18:51:08 davertron [~ddcddavis@vt-bt-254.dealer.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:28 syntard_: ask nicely? 18:52:01 Xach: please? I didn't realize I asked rudely 18:52:21 *`3b`* assumed Xach meant ask the user nicely 18:52:31 did you ask the user rudely? 18:52:44 transparency is nicer than asking 18:53:06 <`3b`> does the browser normally send that sort of thing? 18:53:11 netytan_ [~netytan@host86-175-237-192.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:14 No, and that's unreliable 18:53:57 *`3b`* isn't sure who else you would ask, if not the browser or the user 18:55:07 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-185.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55:07 -!- netytan_ is now known as netytan 18:55:12 User is already authenticated to the domain. IIS doesn't need to ask. I hope there's a way to teach hunchentoot this trick 18:55:30 rwallace: you can also use the Emacs command M-x comment-region 18:55:37 syntard_: The hunchentoot list might have someone who has done something like that. 18:55:47 ok 18:55:56 *syntard_* hates mailing lists 18:55:58 *`3b`* would start by grabbing some traffic to see what IIS does (or else looking for docs) 18:56:01 stassats, ivan4th: https://github.com/stassats/commonqt/issues/#issue/1/comment/548621 18:57:05 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.211] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:13 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:27 `3b`: #+nil does the same as #+(or) and is a tiny bit less deceptive 18:59:49 pmd: unless you're running on New Implementation of Lisp 19:00:00 and if someone shadows NIL, they get what they deserve :p 19:00:01 stassats: what's that? 19:00:03 lichtblau: noted, thanks 19:00:18 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:00:22 pmd: the predecessor of T 19:00:40 <`3b`> pmd: yeah, i was giving the 'correct' answer, or i would have suggested #++ #+NIL is way too much typing :p 19:00:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIL_(programming_language) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_(programming_language) 19:01:55 dlowe: how's it related? features are read into KEYWORD 19:02:32 `3b`: grabbing with ngrep or something? 19:02:48 stassats: brain fart. I mean if someone sticks NIL into *features* 19:02:59 -!- bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:04:16 or nikodemus writes his own lisp, Nikodemus Implementation of Lisp 19:05:07 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:05:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:05:35 stassats: in a certain way, he already does 19:06:00 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483DA98.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:06:32 *stassats* is pondering on writing Stas Boukarev Common Lisp 19:10:14 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:10:24 -!- afekz [~afekz@41.75.226.204] has quit [Quit: afekz] 19:16:37 dlowe: trivial-features sticks NIL into *features* when used with CLISP ARM port :) 19:17:04 ivan4th: trivial-bugs, then? 19:17:27 maybe NIL is the most trivial feature after all... 19:19:28 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:07 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050069016.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:20:13 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@245-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:21:53 lichtblau: thanks for the research. noted, too 19:23:36 jweiss_ [~jweiss@26.sub-174-252-152.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:00 WormDrink [~WormDrink@unaffiliated/wormdrink] has joined #lisp 19:25:02 hi 19:25:20 is there a way to embed lisp, like you can with lua ? 19:25:32 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 19:25:51 minion: ECL? 19:25:52 ECL: Embeddable Common Lisp, a member of the KCL Family, is a Common Lisp implementation initially developed by Giuseppe Attardi and currently maintained by Juan Jose Garcia-Ripoll. http://www.cliki.net/ECL 19:27:58 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 19:28:42 is there any lisp implementation thats not metacircular - if it sounds like a stupid Q its cos i dont know lisp - but from what I know about it I think all implementations will be metacircular 19:28:47 otherwise its not really lisp 19:29:24 WormDrink: What is metacircular? 19:29:43 <`3b`> not all lisps are implemented in lisp if that is what you are asking 19:29:50 -!- The_Fellow1 [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:30:12 no, its not 19:30:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacircular_evaluation 19:31:30 *`3b`* doesn't know what you are asking then 19:31:50 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@26.sub-174-252-152.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:32:20 *`3b`* isn't sure about that wikipedia article either 19:32:47 "Languages designed from the ground up with a meta-circular implementation:" looks suspicious 19:32:53 <`3b`> yeah 19:33:06 eish - how can you people not know what metacircular mean ? 19:33:22 Just dopey, I guess. 19:33:24 <`3b`> we don't know what you mean by it 19:33:33 <`3b`> particular 'metacircular implementation' 19:34:02 <`3b`> particularly if you don't automatically reject non-lisp implementations from that category 19:34:15 yeah - well - anyway - i read some stuff and it must be - so just disregard that question 19:34:31 <`3b`> and that page defines it in terms of 'interpreters, and most lisps compile these days 19:34:44 C is not metacircular and there is C compilers written in C 19:34:51 <`3b`> CL has eval and apply if that is what you mean 19:35:10 <`3b`> so you are asking about the language, not the implementations then? 19:35:31 ok rather i should have said dialect - not implementation 19:35:53 <`3b`> ah, in that case, 'lisp dialect' is so poorly defined as to be meaningless 19:36:07 <`3b`> i'd expect it to be a reasonably common feature though 19:36:08 is Turing Machine metacircular? 19:36:10 yes - that is teh sux 19:36:36 starseeker, C is not - it has nothing todo with touring completeness 19:36:50 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 19:37:00 my bicycle is touring complete 19:37:18 bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has joined #lisp 19:37:32 ugh - are you guys always like this ? 19:37:40 or just when lisp noobs stop by ? 19:38:38 no, we're smug and weenie all the way down 19:38:49 until you get to the turtles. 19:39:00 thats just awesome 19:39:20 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:39:25 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 19:39:28 WormDrink: You might get a better reaction if you write properly and demonstrate some evidence of thought. 19:40:29 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.58.90.22] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:41:14 -!- drdo [~user@194.210.228.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:41:20 that wikipedia is really confusing 19:41:30 that wikipedia article 19:41:42 Xach, thanks - the question must really poor - I also think its very understandable that people in here don't understand the difference between Turing complete, self hosting and metacircular evaluation 19:42:06 WormDrink: It might also be that the relevance is not clear. 19:42:17 xach - any reason not to just (ql:quickload "swank") in my init file... i'm thinking my desire to load swank-loader was old fashion 19:42:32 first it says "Perl [is meta-circular] via eval()", then that Python is through PyPy (an implementation written in Python) 19:42:34 bhyde: Hmm, no, I can't think of a reason. 19:42:43 Xach, yes - I guess a question about lisp is irrelevant ... 19:42:53 -!- WormDrink [~WormDrink@unaffiliated/wormdrink] has left #lisp 19:42:58 -!- bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43:06 what a strange person 19:43:08 WormDrink: I saw a joke today: When all you have is passive-aggression, every problem looks fine, no, really. It's fine. 19:43:32 bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has joined #lisp 19:43:43 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:43:43 bhyde: swank.asd is a pretty thin wrapper around the loader, anyway. 19:44:19 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:25 bhyde: Of course, that won't get you around the registry priority. 19:44:27 *bhyde* notes that quickload is a bit noisy for this usage 19:45:05 bhyde: Yeah, I need a nicer mode for that. 19:45:13 i've totally reworked dat registry :) 19:45:16 Quieter. Although swank loading itself is pretty noisy. 19:45:36 -!- netytan [~netytan@host86-175-237-192.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: netytan] 19:46:58 I'd like to quickload quickproject and linedit and more in my .sbclrc and it prints too much by default. 19:47:20 i don't know why swank-loader uses :verbose t for LOAD 19:47:50 and compile-file 19:48:15 In case it breaks, that we will know where it broke when people paste their *inferior-lisp*? 19:49:00 That could be a restart? 19:49:05 can't we just ask them to bind *load-verbose* and *compile-file-verbose* to T? 19:49:07 maybe :verbose nil :print t would suffice 19:49:39 If I'm not mixing those up 19:50:10 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:13 and warning about unimplemented interfaces, do users need to see it? i saw more confusion from this message 19:51:18 Yuuhi [benni@p5483DA98.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:57 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-179-31-38.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:01 Isn't it quicklisp that's supposed to cope around issues like this? 19:52:47 i don't use quicklisp, and i don't think it should 19:53:11 I think it should be able to 19:53:38 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:53:45 skalawag` [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:07 adu [~ajr@64.134.98.78] has joined #lisp 19:54:19 Which issue? 19:54:35 slime showing a lot of uninteresting stuff by default, in a difficult to override way? 19:55:05 I can probably figure it out. It's not a priority at the moment. 19:55:08 perhaps later i'll compose a message to slime-devel@ with pro et contra of such messages 19:55:09 I'd think there should be, or there might even be, a knob to increase/decrease verbosity when loading systems 19:55:28 yes 19:55:33 It's a general issue 19:55:34 Loading the slime system? 19:55:42 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:55:52 Yes, I am using the "load more quietly" knobs, and slime overrides them with its own options. 19:56:11 there's :verbose t for asdf:load-system, but it doesn't affect load and c-f 19:57:02 moreover, slime has what Xach says, it passes :verbose directly 19:59:31 What output do you want by default? 20:00:01 ;; Swank started at port: 42. 20:00:14 If nothing, then it should bind *standard-output* I guess. Perhaps with a handler-bind on warnings and errors 20:00:35 -!- bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:01:47 just binding leaving *-verbose* variable at its values, and the user decides what output he has 20:01:55 silencing everything isn't great either 20:03:24 architekt [green@irc.coding4coffee.org] has joined #lisp 20:03:35 moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@ETSY.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:03:40 -!- architekt [green@irc.coding4coffee.org] has left #lisp 20:04:56 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:50 -!- adu [~ajr@64.134.98.78] has quit [Quit: adu] 20:09:42 sentry [~sentry@ec2-72-44-49-66.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 20:12:11 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-1-149.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:12:16 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-1-149.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:12:48 a-s [~user@86.35.172.161] has joined #lisp 20:13:41 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-154.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:14:19 -!- skalawag` [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:14:43 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:15:14 smanek [~smanek@adsl-70-232-160-18.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:18 -!- a-s [~user@86.35.172.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:08 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:24:15 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: afk] 20:28:17 -!- euphidime [u178@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jbjtrqkimqylsswy] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by zombie] 20:28:52 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@245-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 20:29:45 acs [~user@86.35.172.161] has joined #lisp 20:32:00 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:34:11 hun` [~user@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:35:18 -!- smanek [~smanek@adsl-70-232-160-18.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:35:18 -!- hun` is now known as Hun` 20:35:54 -!- Hun` is now known as Hun 20:37:40 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [] 20:40:56 -!- drforr is now known as DrForr 20:40:58 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.218.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:42:40 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.145.198] has joined #lisp 20:45:07 davazp [~user@36.Red-79-153-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:56 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:48:42 -!- Hun [~user@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:53:26 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:11 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:58:32 bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has joined #lisp 21:00:39 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.176] has joined #lisp 21:01:26 aliudalius [~user@68.168.182.86] has joined #lisp 21:02:35 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:50 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-210-215.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:04:51 -!- bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:53 about slime startup and the output: is the implementation supposed to always be able to write to std-out? for instance, allegro in windows can't 21:05:02 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:05:03 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 21:06:07 pmd: allegro in windows can't write to *standard-output*? 21:06:10 i've seen lispdev (eclipse plugin) waiting for a given string, but slime itself simply tries to connect 21:06:47 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:06:57 Xach: no, unless you use build.exe or buildi.exe, which have multiprocess problems: they block on console input polling 21:07:37 Xach: although i never tried to launch buildi.exe through slime, i always use allegro-ansi.exe 21:07:47 pmd: I don't understand your crazy moonspeak, sorry. 21:07:48 kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:09:00 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:09:11 on windows, you can run with a little black window or as a normal windows application 21:09:12 Xach: allegro has 4 executable files to launch images in win32: one graphical, one console, each with 8-bit and 16-bit string support 21:09:55 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:09 seangrove [~user@173-116-34-4.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:19 Xach: however, the console based exe's are mostly useless other than to patch-upgrade allegro itself or to create images 21:10:37 francogrex [~user@109.130.104.108] has joined #lisp 21:10:59 so, i was reading the log, and i saw stassats saying it would be nice for slime to output a string saying the server was up and in which port 21:10:59 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:11:12 slime->swank 21:11:24 hi, I'm trying to recall a name of an OS wriiten in cl, (even partially) ? 21:11:24 is the swank protocol documented anywhere? 21:11:41 francogrex: genera? 21:11:42 francogrex: movi 21:11:50 that is the partial name. the full name is movitz. 21:11:52 pmd: that output would then be in the little white window rather than *inferior-lisp*, so that shouldn't be a problem, right? 21:11:58 yan_: kind of, in slime.el and swank.lisp 21:12:10 yan_: in lisp 21:12:12 pmd: ah, clearer. i was thinking about what i see when i double-click the allegro icon. 21:12:32 Xach: yan_ yes 21:12:47 and this http://sourceforge.net/projects/losak/ from google 21:12:53 bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has joined #lisp 21:12:58 lichtblau: true, sorry, i very often fail to explain what i mean 21:13:39 francogrex: There's also sbcl-os, but that never got much past the proof-of-concept stage. 21:13:41 what i meant was that acl doesn't have *standard-output* writting to the exceptable pipe of a console application 21:13:47 expectable 21:15:25 i think lispworks has *log-output* writting to the pipe, but if you have the commercial version you can create console images, if you don't you can't (easily) start slime automatically 21:17:17 anyway... 21:17:27 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-221-174.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:27 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-221-174.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:17:27 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 21:17:38 -!- bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:18:46 bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has joined #lisp 21:20:05 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.104.108] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:23 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-24-23-169-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:22:14 mije [58b510d1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.181.16.209] has joined #lisp 21:23:28 i installed quicklisp on ccl on windows, it works very well 21:24:42 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:26:40 mije: glad to hear it 21:28:19 brandonz [~brandon@c-24-23-169-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:13 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 21:33:23 antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-lbhudxzgbgfkxiwr] has joined #lisp 21:35:51 -!- bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:36:15 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 21:36:43 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754d0f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:11 bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has joined #lisp 21:38:58 -!- bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has quit [Client Quit] 21:40:05 -!- seangrove [~user@173-116-34-4.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:41:44 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:44:32 I just hit the socket part in Land of Lisp. 21:44:43 Since I've never used any: I'm using sbcl, what do I want? 21:44:51 p_l|home [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:47:21 That's a pretty vague question. 21:47:21 -!- mije [58b510d1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.181.16.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:49:11 <`3b`> people have ported the examples to sbcl, google should be able to find the code 21:49:36 spcshpopr8tr [~user@c-71-231-165-31.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:45 Well, isn't there a standard socket library that almost everybody uses? 21:49:53 <`3b`> or maybe http://blog.ciaranbradley.com/crossing-the-streams-land-of-lisp-chapter-12-0?c=1 might help 21:50:02 <`3b`> iolib or usocket 21:50:46 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host74-180-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:51:09 aidalgol [~user@132.181.15.184] has joined #lisp 21:51:31 *nyef* just uses sb-bsd-sockets, but he also just uses sbcl. 21:53:10 bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has joined #lisp 21:53:32 he who? 21:53:51 cYmen: nyef himself? 21:54:16 Tslking in the third person is a valuable IRC-skill 21:54:17 -!- bhyde [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has quit [Client Quit] 21:54:32 s/Tslk/Talk/ 21:55:19 Yeah, this whole switching the background color of my terminal to white and not adjusting the colors isn't working out so well. 21:56:05 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:26 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 21:56:58 iwillig [~ivan@12.37.180.226] has joined #lisp 21:58:25 -!- aidalgol [~user@132.181.15.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:37 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 21:58:56 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 22:01:34 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 22:02:20 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 22:05:13 a quick question: is locally equivalent to let ()? 22:05:42 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:10 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.80.52] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:06:26 other than top-level form processing? 22:08:33 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7A23.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:57 pmd: Probably. I don't see why it wouldn't be. If you really just want to introduce local declarations, though, do use LOCALLY instead of LET... 22:09:17 i have the impression it serves only the purpose of holding declarations 22:10:02 Why, yes. What else might it be for? 22:10:17 LOCALLY doesn't take a set of bindings, of course... 22:10:28 Hexstream: i don't know, since it was an impression, i had the feeling i was missing something... 22:11:26 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 22:11:27 Parano much? ;) The HyperSpec definition is quite clear and simple... 22:11:28 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:30 clhs locally 22:11:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_locall.htm 22:11:53 Hexstream: this question comes in the sense that i often find macros implementing bodies with optional declarations by surrounding them with a let without bindings 22:12:20 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-80-52.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:12:39 such macros are not suitable if we'd want the body to be considered a series of top-level forms 22:14:03 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050069016.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:14:56 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.51.89] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:56 well, but most (if not all) of these macros wrap the body in an extended lexical environment 22:15:19 It appears that LOCALLY is a top-level form... http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_bca.htm 22:15:32 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.176] has quit [] 22:15:39 "If the form is a locally, macrolet, or symbol-macrolet, compile-file establishes the appropriate bindings and processes the body forms as top level forms with those bindings in effect in the same processing mode." 22:15:43 -!- davertron [~ddcddavis@vt-bt-254.dealer.com] has quit [Quit: davertron] 22:16:23 Oh, right, what you were saying is that LET is not top-level... 22:16:29 Hexstream: exactly 22:17:06 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-77-254.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:20 Can you give an example of a macro that expands in a LET with no bindings where you'd expect a LOCALLY instead? 22:17:42 If this LET is *inside* the definition, and not wrapping it, then there's no problem... 22:18:37 Eatime. 22:19:48 -!- aliudalius [~user@68.168.182.86] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:19:58 pmd: Many macros are broken wrt declarations, or toplevel form ness 22:21:29 There's also a paragraph that says that all CL macros (except macros implementing the exceptions) expand to non-toplevel contexts. For example (AND (FROB)) is not equivalent to (FROB) or (PROGN (FROB)) 22:21:29 Hexstream: in fact, i cannot give you an example. all of the macros i remember now with non-binding lets have a binding environment already around them, like a do or similar, so locally would not make a difference 22:21:54 Hexstream: true 22:22:06 disregarding multiple values in my example 22:22:42 tcr: Is that a prohibition against an implementation having (AND (FROB)) return (FROB) ? 22:22:52 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 22:22:53 tcr: interesting. there are many things i've missed the first times i've read certain topics because i didn't quite understand what it was about 22:23:02 Or is it just a prohibition against a user program /depending/ on such behavior? 22:23:07 nyef: Yes, SBCL fixed an issue long that line not that long ago 22:24:16 pmd: Wait until you finally grok EVAL-WHEN, be immensely disgusted and feel lucky that you will have forgotten all the crude details the day after 22:24:48 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-50-64.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:25:09 tcr: i've been around eval-when already a good while ago, but i obviously didn't understand it in detail 22:25:40 tcr: what i retained is that it's most useful due to these top-level/non-top-level points where a macro can expand 22:27:34 that and compile-time effects 22:28:30 fwiw, i only use it for the latter 22:28:45 -!- muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:28:47 I wonder what's worse, nested backquoting or nested eval-whens I seem to be able to cope with nested backquotes to a level of 2 quite ok, not so for eval-when  but then I'm more used to the former :-) 22:30:07 tcr: indeed 22:30:41 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:32:07 dfox_ [~dfox@e4.dkm.cz] has joined #lisp 22:32:35 i must be missing something about eval-when 22:32:39 if `cond', or `and' and `or', were special operators, would it still be a heavy operation for them to return multiple values other than in the last executed form? 22:32:41 sohail1 [~Adium@76-10-165-4.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:47 -!- iwillig [~ivan@12.37.180.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:32:53 everybody is afraid of it 22:33:01 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:33:03 netytan [~netytan@host86-175-237-192.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:15 It's the evaluation model 22:34:07 -!- antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-lbhudxzgbgfkxiwr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:50 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-102-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:55 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-102-240.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:37:05 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-102-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:37:27 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-101-71-212.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:37:36 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-24-23-169-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:38:10 what do you do for inspiration to write papers and alike? 22:40:12 brandonz [~brandon@c-24-23-169-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:27 *stassats* is trying to deliberately confuse himself regarding eval-when 22:45:07 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-24-23-169-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:45:15 ok, i found one combination which i wouldn't expect: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (eval-when (:execute :load-toplevel) (print 10))), evaluates print twice, but would write such atrocities? 22:45:26 kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:46:12 now that i think about it, i would expect it 22:47:21 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:52 *stassats* fails to confuse himself and goes to sleep 22:49:33 stassats: it evaluates print twice if you compile and load 22:51:19 yes, that's what i meant 22:52:14 stassats: it's often necessary, in a compiled image that loads patches, to eval-when :compile-toplevel :load-toplevel to remove certain methods no longer necessary or even fmakunbound generic functions due to argument agreement 22:52:27 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 22:52:52 sometimes, do other "stupid" things to avoid warnings 22:53:08 :compile-toplevel :load-toplevel without :execute? 22:53:30 stassats: with :execute, but it's redundant at top-level, right? 22:54:10 if :load-toplevel is set, that is 22:54:15 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-179-143.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:54:21 it's not, if you're just loading .lisp 22:54:55 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-179-143.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:59 :compile-toplevel is for compile-file, :load-toplevel is for load .fasl, and execute is for load, eval, compile 22:55:20 netytan_ [~netytan@host81-141-51-226.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:56 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:56:22 Umm... what? 22:56:54 what what? 22:56:55 (eval-when (:execute) (write "foo")) at toplevel actually writes "foo"? 22:57:09 -!- netytan [~netytan@host86-175-237-192.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:57:09 -!- netytan_ is now known as netytan 22:57:23 if you (load "foo.lisp") without compiling 22:57:37 That doesn't seem right. 22:57:53 nyef: why not? 22:58:13 stassats: if you load. it can be a .lisp or a .fasl 22:58:16 that's why nobody should ever use eval-when without all cases except in special circumstances like implementing defun. :) 22:58:29 pmd: no-no 22:58:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:04 stassats: now that doesn't seem right. why not? 22:59:19 because compile-toplevel and load-toplevel are only related to COMPILE-FILE 22:59:49 they're related to LOAD too 23:00:08 only when loading the result of COMPILE-FILE 23:00:24 perhaps i see where the confusion can come from 23:00:50 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-102-240.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:01:04 hmm, has it got anything to do with the implementation being free to compile-then-execute instead of interpreting? 23:01:09 Ah, there's a bit of fine-print in the fourth paragraph of the description of LOAD. How odd. 23:01:40 it's not really odd when you think about it 23:01:44 pmd: compile-file has nothing to do with compilation per se 23:01:53 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:01:54 *nyef* was completely unaware of that aspect of EVAL-WHEN. 23:02:15 it's just required to do minimal compilation, how it arranges to execute the code is irrelevant 23:02:22 eval-when is so that you can separate things into a piece that happens during compilation, and a piece that happens at load-time. 23:02:34 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:03:16 and pieces that happen at EVAL-time, with LOAD on a source file being a sequential READ+EVAL 23:03:47 I always use EVAL-ALWAYS instead of EVAL-WHEN... which is exactly what you think it is. I sometimes feel (eval-when () stuff) should do as if the 3 situations were provided. 23:04:13 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-80-52.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:04:30 I think of the "eval-time" as the alternative which happens if you're doing both at once. 23:05:07 both what? 23:06:04 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-154.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:08:34 -!- davazp [~user@36.Red-79-153-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:56 foom: do you think that (eval-when (:execute) (print "hello")) will get evaluated when doing (load (compile-file "foo.lisp"))? 23:09:11 stassats: no 23:09:15 ok 23:09:26 I meant when the implementation is doing both at once. :) 23:09:29 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-218-221.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:20 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:11:26 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:11:26 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 23:17:28 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:35 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:18:58 xan_ [~xan@70-88-149-185-smc-md.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:56 -!- dmiles_akf [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:23:46 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 23:28:42 mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:28 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 23:33:55 -!- dnm [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:18 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:40:33 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-60-31-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:38 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-218-221.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:41:45 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 23:43:50 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu184.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:48:14 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 23:49:15 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:49:36 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-101-71-212.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:36 jeti [~user@p54B47309.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:47 weszlem [~poszl_e_m@chello089073209035.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 23:52:15 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:52:47 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:19 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:59:47 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp