00:01:35 symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 00:02:45 Xach: should have just pasted but if not it's http://paste.lisp.org/+2HY8 00:07:28 davertron: there's yer problem right there 00:07:31 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:08:16 -!- ajmorgan [~ajmorgan@70.102.51.102] has quit [Quit: ajmorgan] 00:08:36 davertron: what does (asdf:system-source-directory 'cffi) show you? 00:08:43 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 00:08:43 ajmorgan [~ajmorgan@70.102.51.102] has joined #lisp 00:09:34 Xach: #P"/usr/share/common-lisp/source/cl-cffi/" 00:10:23 davertron: i bet that is the source of your problem. maybe try uninstalling cl-cffi? 00:10:40 Xach: worth a shot, i'll get rid of it 00:10:55 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.197.198] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:11:10 after that, (asdf:clear-system 'cffi) and quickloading it again might do the trick. 00:11:52 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:13:37 Xach: seems to have gotten me farther anyway 00:13:51 Xach: looks like I'm now hitting an error with the cffi sdl stuff... 00:14:02 oh? annotate paste? 00:15:11 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 00:15:18 Xach: annotated :) 00:15:45 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:58 need more backtrace 00:17:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-47.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:18:43 Xach: backtrace added 00:19:27 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A689B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:01 hmmm 00:20:18 davertron: might want to remove ~/.cache/common-lisp/ - i think it might be stale fasls. 00:21:13 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-78-43.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:40 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-105-72.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:21:57 Xach: looks good now :) 00:22:00 woo 00:23:41 V-ille [~ville@70.42.89.16] has joined #lisp 00:24:28 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:19 Xach: thanks! 00:26:32 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:33 glad it works now! sorry it was such a hassle. 00:27:11 _danb_ [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:27:17 Xach: nah, wouldn't have been if I knew what I was doing :) 00:28:29 *hefner* doesn't see how you can legally use LGPL code in an iPhone app, either. There's no way to relink the code and run it or swap out shared libraries. If you added one, Apple wouldn't distribute your app. 00:29:59 unless it suffices to give them the executables/shared libraries, a pile of object files, whatever, and leave the problem of how to get it on the device and run it to the user. 00:30:00 hefner: it's debatable... if you publish enough material to reconstruct the binary, you're not held responsible for ensuring that the user can run it, afaik 00:30:17 otoh, I can't speak about USA 00:31:01 Hey all, getting this issue when trying to (use-package ...) 00:31:07 USE-PACKAGE # causes name-conflicts in # between the following symbols: VANA-TEMPLATING:FORM, COMMON-LISP-USER::FORM 00:31:29 I'm not sure how to have vana-templating's form take over 00:32:31 look for a form function in the vana-templating package and qualify that with a package name before it's name 00:32:32 seangrove: not generally a good idea to use-package things into cl-user. better to make your own package and be explicit about what you want there. you can even decide who gets preference. 00:33:00 I end up making a lot of packages though... it feels a bit java-ish 00:33:28 that's a false feeling. working in cl-user is not normal most of the time. 00:33:42 seangrove: code that's stored in a file is probably meant to be reused, and, as such, deserve a package. 00:33:48 Ah, ok 00:34:04 Xach: That's what pops up in the repl, so I assumed that's where I was meant to work 00:34:13 Just got into packages today because of PCL 00:34:18 Wonderful things :) 00:34:37 seangrove: it's ok for some stuff, but as soon as you want to start playing with new package structure, better to make your own. 00:34:40 seangrove: it's a good default for one-time hacks. 00:35:42 And is there a way to export all of the defun's in a file without explicitely writing them into :export ? 00:35:46 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-136-51-90.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:35:59 seangrove: no. 00:36:12 seangrove: packages export symbols. And, "you don't want that". 00:36:24 Heh, ok 00:36:27 I had a feeling 00:36:46 I just have ~100 symbols for one of the packages, and it felt a bit repetitive 00:37:02 seangrove: you just started today and you have 100 symbols? 00:37:08 that is a lot of symbols per hour! 00:37:26 Copy and paste, baby :) 00:37:35 What are the symbols for? 00:38:25 _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.103.175] has joined #lisp 00:38:43 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.103.175] has left #lisp 00:38:45 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 00:38:59 hi 00:39:04 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: It's getting dark, too dark to see.] 00:39:06 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116578 00:39:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-26.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:39:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:40:08 im trying to install hunchentoot an im gettin this error NEW darcs get babel 00:40:08 darcs failed: unrecognized option `--lazy' 00:40:38 salva: Try quicklisp? 00:41:26 i never see it, i view the chanel now and i going to see his web now 00:41:30 seangrove: it might make sense to output an export list programmatically from your list of html5 tags. Why is that a function, though? 00:41:38 (html5-tags, that is). 00:41:45 oh, no reason 00:41:51 Bit of cruft, I believe 00:42:01 When I was developing, I used (defvar ...) 00:42:18 seangrove: I think it'd be better to use a macrolet to expand into defuns than a bunch of (setf (fdefinition ...) ...) stuff. 00:42:20 But whenever I updated the tag list and compiled with C-c C-k, the changes never took effect 00:42:37 seangrove: that's orthogonal to defun or defparameter. 00:42:37 Ugh, a macro-*let*? 00:42:51 In both cases, you have to re-execute the forms that depend on the tag list. 00:42:54 Though they don't have do be functions at all. 00:42:57 also, if you don't care about the result of map, use (map nil ...), or mapc, for lists. 00:43:08 *seangrove* just got basically comfortable with macros, and then stumbled on how awesome reader macros are... and now a new contented has entered: the macrolet 00:43:23 seangrove: Why the ugh? 00:43:40 Just a surprise to see yeat another macro* :) 00:43:58 it's the walking one 00:44:02 seangrove: quicklisp is better that clbuil? 00:44:09 macrolet is for defining local macros. and when used at the toplevel it preserves toplevelness. 00:44:14 salva: It's quite nice for the packages it has 00:44:28 salva: It does part of what clbuild does. 00:44:35 wait until he gets to compiler macros... 00:45:01 salva: I think it is pretty good at that part, but if you want the other parts, it doesn't replace clbuild. 00:45:10 something is broke with moptilities 00:45:34 i only use clbuild to get lisp libraries 00:46:13 salva: i think quicklisp is better than clbuild for that purpose. 00:46:26 salva: try it and see - you can always switch back. 00:46:33 but this error NEW darcs get babel 00:46:33 darcs failed: unrecognized option `--lazy' 00:46:47 salva: maybe you need a newer version of darcs. 00:47:22 ok thanks, ill try quicklisp 00:48:42 heh 00:49:17 schell [~schellsci@c-76-103-111-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:03 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:51:30 -!- jeti [~user@p548EAF4C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:53:13 Ralith_ [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:29 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:56:23 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:58:12 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58:16 ananthrk [~ananthrk@173-13-186-118-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:06 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 01:02:07 If I have a (defpackage :example ...) (in-package :example) and I check a subdir for all *.lisp files, read them in and execute them, will everything they contain be inside of only the :example package? [assuming there is no new (in-package :foo) that are inside] 01:06:23 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva] 01:06:54 -!- ananthrk [~ananthrk@173-13-186-118-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 01:08:48 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:57 the symbols will be interned through the reader, the reader belongs to cl package 01:09:09 not ? 01:09:26 and keywords will go into the :keywords package 01:10:03 Hmm 01:10:36 they won't be interned into the package you want, unless you did a usepackage :foo before 01:10:37 How can I add more symbols to a package that's already been declared? 01:11:09 import or import-from 01:11:37 seangrove: INTERN would be a good start... Or EXPORT if you're looking for external symbols, or re-declaring the package "works" in most implementations. 01:11:49 so you can import symbols either directly by name or better with tellilng from which package 01:12:18 Wait... there's something confusing here. 01:12:22 Heh 01:12:25 I'm outside of the package 01:12:32 oh 01:12:37 then you are in cl-user 01:12:39 I'd like to then, from the outside, put symbols (a new function) into the package 01:12:46 Sure, for example 01:12:53 Or some other package 01:12:55 Use in-package or an explicit package prefix. 01:13:11 nyef: for defun? 01:13:27 import-from in combination with export-to maybbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbe ? 01:13:29 ups 01:13:30 sorry 01:14:18 nyef: If from cl-user I try (defun vana-templating:example () (format t "something")), I get: 01:14:35 SB-INT:SIMPLE-READER-PACKAGE-ERROR at 30 (line 1, column 30) on #: Symbol "EXAMPLE" not found in the VANA-TEMPLATING package. 01:14:49 Seems like I have to put it in the package from the inside first 01:15:01 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-8-91.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:03 But I can redefine an already existing symbol 01:15:51 Use a double-colon? 01:15:59 It then won't be an external symbol, but it should compile. 01:16:33 That did work, but I'm confused about the difference 01:17:35 So it's not an external symbol, but it's still within the package? 01:18:40 not exported symbols are not external 01:18:44 syntard__ [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:03 or only exported symbols are external 01:19:05 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-11-19.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:19:22 Ok 01:19:32 So what does the double colon make the symbol? 01:19:49 that makes the symbol go into the keywords package 01:19:55 a universal bin for symbols 01:20:10 like a trash can 01:20:18 lol 01:21:05 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu301.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:21:16 What's the practical difference, other than using double colons? 01:21:25 they only get swept away by gc, when the smybols gets unbound to it's value or it's other symbol structures 01:21:39 seangrove: : is for accessing exported symbols. :: can be used for non-exported ones. that is all. 01:21:40 -!- schell [~schellsci@c-76-103-111-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: schell] 01:21:41 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-112-216.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:21:58 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:00 schmrkc: Is it bad practice to use it? 01:22:07 yep :: is qualifying 01:22:27 -!- syntard [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22:30 seangrove: If you find yourself having to use it then probably the interface to your package needs redesign. 01:22:30 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-112-216.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 01:22:40 it is explicit 01:22:41 -!- syntard__ is now known as syntard 01:22:45 seangrove: Unless it is some bizarre edge case. 01:23:18 there are some bizarre edge cases 01:23:29 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-214-104-67.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:23:30 seangrove: Like for cl-sdl's joystick support. a lot of the functions one needed were not exported. So I hade to :: and file a bit of a bug report. 01:23:47 yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:47 One further aspect is that with the double-colon, the symbol will be /created/ in the package if necessary. 01:23:55 I have also encountered using :: with clx. 01:23:55 like when a package's symbols is the same as another ones, and they get exported both into the cl-user global top-level 01:23:56 why would i use setf vs. setq? 01:24:05 yates: You always use SETF 01:24:07 (or vice versa) 01:24:21 then the reader asks what is should chose for 01:24:24 thanks guys, sounds pretty good 01:24:33 schmrkc: why? 01:24:39 yates: "why" is because SETQ is confusing to read. 01:25:07 yates: One could argue that SETQ is more specialised or whatever, and that you should use it when you can. 01:25:12 Efthymios [~efthymios@c-98-207-146-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:33 yates: SETF likes to expand to SETQ so is alright, ya? 01:26:44 i guess one reason is that you can use macro syntax in setf whereas you couldn't in setq? 01:26:51 schmrkc: i guess... 01:27:06 yates: SETF can be used for more places than SETQ, ya. 01:27:17 hmm maybe not more places. but for more forms anyway ;) 01:27:51 yates: setq is pretty much only for variables. 01:28:07 var---a symbol naming a variable other than a constant variable. 01:28:21 schmrkc: and symbol macros. 01:28:48 pkhuong_: oh neat. 01:29:22 yates: (defvar *foo*) (macroexpand-1 '(setf *foo* nil)) . I rest my case. never no need for typing setq ;) 01:29:39 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A6BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:30:25 hm 01:31:27 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:32:59 yates: I use setq for saying nothing special's going on 01:33:21 schmrkc: no need for defvar there 01:33:36 macroexpand-1 doesn't actually evaluate it 01:33:49 what an interesting point. 01:34:14 (: 01:34:28 good call for the yates 01:34:46 tcr: i've got a ton of setq stuff in my emacs init.el file, from when i didn't know what i was doing... 01:35:02 not that it's wrong. 01:35:03 elisp is a different beast. 01:35:10 yeah, i know 01:35:41 ok, back to pcl 01:35:48 i hate - i mean love - that book 01:36:01 (: ya it's quite good 01:36:08 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:36:18 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 01:36:28 tedious, but good 01:37:00 i've made it to chap 4 now - woo-hoo! 01:38:23 Any way to pluralize/singularize a word? 01:38:35 ? 01:38:42 +s -s, add nothing ? 01:38:59 Similar to rail's inflector 01:39:01 Look in your nearest english grammar book? 01:39:13 Heh, thank you :) 01:39:16 How does rail's inflector work? 01:39:35 List of basic rules, and then the exceptions 01:39:43 ese, eses maybe too or so 01:39:59 seangrove: I don't understand at all. 01:40:05 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 01:40:05 http://api.rubyonrails.org/classes/ActiveSupport/Inflector.html#method-i-singularize 01:40:11 You mean pluralise a string ? 01:40:19 yes 01:40:32 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 01:40:38 Wouldn't you need some crazy lookup for that? 01:41:00 No, just some basic general rules, and then the exceptions 01:41:06 It's really quite well done 01:41:25 what's plural of cactus? 01:41:27 And of course the reverse: http://api.rubyonrails.org/classes/ActiveSupport/Inflector.html#method-i-pluralize 01:41:41 checking 01:41:44 bah - heresy 01:41:46 There are a shedload of exceptions, and of course words with more than one plural, like syntard said. 01:42:20 cactuses 01:42:28 O_o 01:42:31 or cacti 01:42:39 catii 01:42:39 "From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]:" 01:42:43 cactii 01:43:19 Does it correctly singularise both forms? 01:43:26 *franki^* funds this interesting 01:43:34 s/funds/finds/ 01:43:55 I suppose I should just look at the source 01:43:56 seangrove: I know of nothing of the sort for CL. Should be easy enough to write something though ? 01:43:58 syntard: (global-set-key [(control ?8)] 'dictionary-lookup-definition) 01:44:53 No, it doesn't get cactus right :) 01:45:04 just finished checking 01:45:08 schmrkc: I think so yeah 01:45:16 yates: i don't have that word 01:45:18 Thought I read somewhere that lisp had it already 01:45:25 I guess I won't use rails for writing my peyote webshop then. 01:45:45 schmrkc: Well, it's nice in the you can open up the list of exceptions and put them in 01:45:45 seangrove: FORMAT has some pluralising thing. But it is nothing like this thing. 01:45:52 Then it just works 01:45:56 schmrkc: Ok, thanks :) 01:46:07 seangrove: But it's really just writing a (pluralise ...) 01:46:14 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.11.235] has joined #lisp 01:46:20 also your lisp will explode if you name it pluralize 01:46:21 Yup! 01:46:35 heh 01:46:43 I guess one could even add some interesting keywords to control pluralisation. 01:47:05 bugger to write up all the rules. What's the use case for this sorta thing? I can pretty much only think of webshop :) 01:47:22 I guess maybe for a game. 01:47:23 hmm. 01:47:23 Or a game 01:47:25 Heh 01:47:29 pluralising game 01:47:30 Heh, working on a website in lisp 01:47:41 Bit silly I suppose 01:47:47 1 super laser. 2 super lasers. Makes sense. 01:47:49 But nice way to learn by doing something useful 01:47:59 for some value of useful anyway ;) 01:48:04 True, true 01:48:06 But I agree. Learn by doing is the best. 01:49:37 http://xach.livejournal.com/277033.html?thread=652841#t652841 01:55:07 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-8-91.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:57:12 Can I convert a string to a symbol without actually creating that symbol in my current package? 01:57:52 seangrove: in what package do you want it to be? Or do you just want an uninterned symbol (once that you can't type). 01:58:13 Interned makes it become part of the current package, right? 01:58:26 So an uninterned symbol would just be a symbol floating around? 01:59:10 it's just a symbol, without any link from a global name -> symbol mapping (which is what interning does, so that you get the same symbol when you type just the right thing) 01:59:17 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-55-121.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: jconrad] 02:00:35 ok, think I (more or less) got it :) 02:00:44 And that's not what I need, I just need to use hash tables 02:02:28 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:01 Saturnation [~dsouth@71.169.180.213] has joined #lisp 02:03:21 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:04 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:06:26 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:54 seangrove: i want to say format has a pluralize directive 02:11:48 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:30 seangrove: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/22_chc.htm 02:12:57 Thanks derrida! 02:13:15 Looks like it doesn't go the other way... 02:13:17 but a good start! 02:14:51 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:15:23 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-179-143.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:16:14 Right. It is nothing as good as this rails thing. 02:16:56 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.197.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:19:19 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:58 schmrkc: oops missed that you had already said that hehe 02:24:05 I can't seem to figure out how to capture groups with cl-ppcre 02:26:20 Makoryu [~bloodgog@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:28 bah! 02:26:36 \\1, not \1 02:26:48 *seangrove* remembers suddenly it's lisp 02:30:49 abend_ [~alx@delta.muted.org] has joined #lisp 02:31:41 Zeiris_ [~Zeiris@66.183.73.102] has joined #lisp 02:32:09 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:33:44 -!- Steven_ is now known as sdsds 02:35:00 seangrove: lisp string handling is pretty, no? :) 02:36:31 is there a lisp API to nokia's qt library? 02:37:12 i don't see one right off on the nokia site 02:38:31 commonqt 02:38:48 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:44 xan_ [~xan@rrcs-69-193-205-118.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:39:54 -!- Makoryu [~bloodgog@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:39:56 yates: Is there something that makes it different from normal qt? 02:40:10 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:40:10 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 02:40:10 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:40:37 one writes normal qt in C++ 02:41:05 just a curious george question at this point 02:41:18 *schmrkc* shrugs. There are qt bindings for a number of languages. If nokia's qt is the normal qt I see no reason for why commonqt or that other qt library should not work. 02:41:29 Provided they're not abandond and broken 02:41:36 heh 02:41:38 abandoned too. 02:41:44 that too, yes 02:41:44 welcome to the world of lisp GUI ;) 02:41:52 how does this sound for finding the largest suffix that is a palindrome of a given string: create suffix tree of given string in O(n) time, starting from last character in given string traverse down suffix tree if that character is in tree, continue down tree as long as a character exists, and when you reach $(to denote the end of a suffix), you have found your suffix. Otherwise, no such suffix exists. (the search here is the length of the string in 02:42:02 looks like lispworks has a special gui library 02:42:08 my how objective is to try and get this done in O(n) 02:42:10 but for big $$$ 02:42:15 yates: Would one not have to compile stuff and deliver a binary to actually run on the nokia device though? 02:42:16 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-112-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:42:23 i'm just looking for feedback 02:42:56 *schmrkc* googles palindrome. 02:43:04 schmrkc: yes, but i wasn't thinking of targeting a mobile device, rather my linux desktop 02:43:29 yates: if you're commercially selling software, I think funding a purchase of LW wouldn't be that hard if you can deal with ~110 EUR/month 02:43:54 yates: Oh ok. It looks like Nokia QT SDK is pretty much Qt + "some other stuff". So maybe just normal Qt for desktop? there's some library called something with smoke. I forget. 02:44:11 schmrkc: yeah, that's the commonqt 02:44:21 schmrkc: a palindrome can be written forward or backwards and still communicate the same information, say 11011 or radar as an example 02:44:31 rff: only suffixes? 02:44:36 schmrkc: it's POSIX compat libraries + Qt for mobile 02:44:39 pkhuong_: yeah 02:44:40 rff: Personally I think I'd make a copy of the string that was reversed. and loop 'em both. 02:44:47 p_l|home: just wondering about the possible alternatives at this point really 02:44:59 but at this point 110 Eur/mo is pretty steep 02:45:15 schmrkc: well my reasoning is correct for why my approach is O(n), yes? 02:45:16 yates: cl-smoke there is too. 02:45:25 rff: I have no idea really. I got a headache reading it :S 02:45:40 yates: well, you won't really need it unless you're going with apropriately priced product... 02:45:48 i'm sure it's a grate product, though - i took a look at their showcased products and they are way cool - especially the behavior analytics stuff 02:45:55 doh 02:45:59 s/grate/great/ 02:46:14 weird - i don't usually misspell that one 02:46:17 the quote was assuming a standard business loan with 12 monthly repayments 02:46:21 bummer. well the main idea is that you can create a suffix tree in O(n) time and you can search for patterns in O(dm) time where d is your alphabet and m is the length of your pattern 02:47:15 pricing the product is easy - getting customers to buy it at that price, not so much 02:47:50 It's not really a very steep price for computer software. 02:48:01 rff: there is always a palindromic suffix; the empty string of a single character is a palindrome. GIven that there is a possibility for failure in your sketch, things don't look good. 02:48:13 I think I'm a bit confused about the output of cl-ppcre:regex-replace 02:48:20 $3500? if you're in the big leagues, no. one-man garage? too much 02:48:29 (cl-ppcre:regex-replace "notfound$" "catr" "s") 02:48:30 "catr" 02:48:30 NIL 02:48:33 yates: Well sure. They're not targetting one-man garages :) 02:48:47 yates: send them an email and see if they can arrange a deal. 02:48:48 What's that second value down there? 02:48:56 yates: well, 1200 EUR for the standard version, and it includes a royalty-free deployment license 02:49:01 If the regex matches, it's t 02:49:23 seangrove: I'd consider reading the documentation 02:49:23 It seems like it always returns the original string, and then separately, whether any changes were made 02:49:36 pkhuong_: Not a bad suggestion... been going through it 02:49:38 But not in this case 02:50:02 p_l|home: yeah, that is definitely a great policy 02:50:36 are we really at >2USD/EUR now? 02:50:36 pkhuong_: It's more that my confusions stems from it seemingly returning two values 02:50:50 But I can't do (second ) of the return value 02:50:57 clhs values 02:50:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_values.htm 02:51:01 yates: 1 Euro = 1.3694 U.S. dollars says google. 02:51:14 pkhuong_: I had heard of this mysterious lisp ability, first time hitting it 02:51:43 very cheap USD. Maybe time to buy some. 02:51:59 ,(* 1.3694 1200) 02:52:33 specbot: (* 1.3694 1200) 02:52:47 $#*()@! 02:53:22 pkhuong_: actually, it would always return the last character if nothing larger was found as that would certainly qualify as a suffix that is a palindrome. consider the string "abc", its suffix tree would have nodes: "abc$", "bc$", "c$" and if i traverse down this suffix tree as I traverse the string in reverse, I would have the result of "c$" 02:53:41 pkhuong_: if this is not what you were saying would be a problem, do you have a concrete example of what would cause a problem? 02:53:52 pkhuong_: How can I get to that second value? None of the examples on the page show it 02:54:03 yates: cutting off transmission is a time-proven way to preserve one's signal to noise ratio. 02:54:04 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@236-9-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:54:16 seangrove: look in the related section. 02:54:42 rff: I'm just pointing out that your sketch had "Otherwise no such suffix exists", which is suspect. 02:54:43 ah, that's quite ugly 02:54:43 aeroegnr [~aeroegnr@99.66.45.90] has joined #lisp 02:54:44 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:50 ah, yes 02:55:08 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:55:11 yates: ~$1650 02:55:11 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:12 that is definitely mistaken 02:55:41 p_l|home: right (slime told me that too) 02:56:43 so cheaper in the US, huh? 03:03:51 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 03:04:26 rff: I think you can do it without the temporary suffix tree. 03:05:07 probably but I'm just messing about with them, learning their properties, what they are good for, etc. 03:08:20 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:08:49 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:11:10 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:11:20 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:26 Ok, think I finished porting the rails singularize/pluralize 03:12:40 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:41 Turns out neither emacs, scheme, nor sbcl exploded at the naming :) 03:12:50 Ah, I have irregulars I have to do 03:13:38 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:14:35 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 03:18:07 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-150.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:58 _nix001 [~Adium@114.92.112.175] has joined #lisp 03:19:01 -!- _nix001 [~Adium@114.92.112.175] has left #lisp 03:19:52 -!- stokachu [~user@nat/redhat/x-cqtsppncwtausrhc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:20:16 stokachu [~user@nat/redhat/x-burocbtaixrpfyeq] has joined #lisp 03:22:11 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:46 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:25:18 Kurou [~kurou@114.17.50.123.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:29:30 did you have something specific in mind that did not involve the suffix tree? 03:29:40 pkhuong_ 03:30:19 I'm trying (not too hard) to work a proof out. 03:37:54 -!- billr [43a45d64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.164.93.100] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:38:50 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-78-43.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:38:50 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:41:02 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-150.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 03:45:50 _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.105.43] has joined #lisp 03:46:02 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.105.43] has left #lisp 03:51:17 Good morning everyone! 03:51:28 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f7269e4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:43 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:53:02 beach: ... please tell me you're in vietnam, not in france, at the moment... 03:53:33 beach: morning 03:53:38 p_l|home: But it is morning in france? :S 03:53:56 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f72fea3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:54:57 Sat Nov 13 03:54:57 UTC 2010 03:55:02 France is UTC+1 03:55:26 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096728010.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 03:55:27 Yes. 03:56:17 beach freaks me out o_O; I mean, I have my sleeping issues, but people who wake up so early always spook me 03:56:20 p_l|home: I'm in sweden. We have the same timezone. Morning is pretty much 00-06. Then it's "f�rmiddag" 6-12 : 03:56:27 pffft 03:56:34 early bird catches the early computer terminal. 03:56:43 Which I guess is not relevant 2010 03:57:21 p_l|home: I try to schedule meetings with my clients 6 am saturdays. It never works out :( 03:57:25 schmrkc: I prefer to hog it at night :) 03:57:33 :) 03:58:09 I saw some documentary on this. Some people are, genetically, better for getting up early and some for being awake all night. 03:58:20 Apperently not so many of them that are the extremes though. 04:02:44 -!- Kurou [~kurou@114.17.50.123.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 04:03:55 p_l|home: I am in France. 04:04:01 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:04:14 p_l|home: Sorry to spook you. You are awake yourself. 04:04:30 p_l|home: I think he hasn't gone to bed yet. 04:04:33 eh 04:04:38 beach: I think he hasn't gone to bed yet. 04:04:44 Oh, that's possible. 04:05:10 Well, I woke up around 4:30 because I was thinking about a compiler-macro for APPEND. 04:05:50 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-221-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:53 kuafu [kuafu@120.83.204.105] has joined #lisp 04:07:21 sounds better than when I had vtable-induced nightmares 04:07:36 sure does :) 04:07:52 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:02 More than once has my fianc�e pointed out to me that I was speaking lisp-related nonsense while sleeping. 04:09:37 hello? 04:09:41 sykopomp: And you are still together! :) 04:09:49 kuafu: Yes! 04:09:55 beach: 5 years in a month! :) 04:10:35 sykopomp: Congratulations! 04:10:40 funny 04:11:06 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:11:37 kuafu: New here? 04:11:51 yes,first time use irc 04:12:06 Welcome! What brings you to #lisp? 04:12:23 looking for somethine about neoengine 04:12:44 mek||malloc [~mek@wifi-roaming-159-137.nss.udel.edu] has joined #lisp 04:15:17 What's neoengine? 04:15:45 a 3d game engine 04:16:02 Is there a way to use the loop macro in such a way as to emulate a nested for loop (to perform matrix manipulation, for instance)? My attempts have resulted in a sequential updating of both variables, one after the other -- as opposed to the inner loop iterating until completion. 04:16:03 you're making a lisp game? 04:16:42 mek||malloc: sure, with nested loop forms. 04:18:01 no,nothing about lisp,we don't have any chance to know about lisp so much 04:18:20 pkhuong_: Is there any significance to the terminology 'outer' used in PCL's loop for black belts or is it just some ordinary variable. 04:19:22 kuafu: You have all the chance you want to learn lisp. I do imagine you will have a hard time finding good information on neoengine here though :) Maybe you should make some lisp bindings for it? 04:20:34 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:20:39 maybe,but too hard for me 04:21:14 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:23:10 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 04:25:40 -!- az [~az@p5796C3AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:26:14 -!- kuafu [kuafu@120.83.204.105] has quit [] 04:26:58 kuafu [kuafu@120.83.204.105] has joined #lisp 04:29:26 seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:10 -!- Saturnation [~dsouth@71.169.180.213] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:32:46 Is there any easy datastructure like a two-way alist? 04:33:39 syddraf [~syddraf@DHCP-129-59-160-57.n1.vanderbilt.edu] has joined #lisp 04:33:51 seangrove: what would a two-way alist allow? 04:34:06 seangrove: given a value, find the key? 04:34:14 and given the key, find the value 04:34:21 that's what a normal alist does! 04:34:26 oh? 04:34:27 see rassoc 04:34:32 hahaha 04:34:54 at least that's a slightly obscure name, and not "alist-value-given-key" 04:35:03 err, alist-key-given-value 04:37:02 Wow 04:37:05 That worked :) 04:37:21 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:40 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-98-163.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:41:11 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-8-225.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:41:12 -!- davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:44:11 *Xach* hasn't seen a question like "is there any way to get everything in a list but the last item?" or "is there a way to get the nth item in a list?" 04:44:17 ...in a few days, that is 04:44:46 Heh, silly question, I know 04:44:53 But glad there was such a nice answer 04:45:46 well, at least with those the answer is in the question (BUTLAST and NTH) 04:45:59