00:00:00 was that? 00:00:04 hoh some looniks 00:00:06 a fork a gentoo 00:00:16 a fork of* 00:00:30 osoleve: which lisp do you use? 00:00:31 osoleve: You can get at the beginning of a s-expression, then invoke C-M-k, C-y. This will put the expression in the "emacs buffer". 00:00:39 Then get at the REPL and paste it with C-y. 00:00:56 osoleve: grab sbcl from sbcl.org . pull slime from cvs. config emacs. enjoy life. 00:01:01 i've been using the repl in a separate terminal 00:01:01 Oh, actually C-M-k then C-x u is better because you won't mark the file as "dirty". 00:01:41 syntard_: I use both sbcl for normal use, and clisp to follow along in LoL 00:02:03 seems complicated. 00:02:10 Oh, so you don't have Slime running yet. Then this should be your absolute top priority. Else things are pretty much unworkable... 00:02:19 *syntard_* nods 00:02:20 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:02:20 is lol the land of lisp one? 00:02:27 yes 00:02:35 why's it need clisp? 00:02:37 *schmrkc* is curious here. 00:02:47 after chapter 12, it uses it a few non-standard commands 00:02:56 Whatever. You're not there yet. 00:03:02 What a strange choice of the author. 00:03:12 devinus [~devinus@cpe-66-68-82-202.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:17 clisp works quite well with slime regardless :) 00:03:27 Besides, clisp tends to do things differently than other implementations... SBCL is a safer choice I'd say. It's much better supported. 00:03:41 the thing with slime for me is, it's installed, it shows up on the emacs menu bad... but nothing is selectable 00:03:58 i'm not trying to start a flame war, but if i chose Clojure to learn for a lisp experience, would I miss out on the full lisp experience by shunning CL? 00:03:58 selectable? 00:04:01 emacs menu bad? 00:04:01 You may have to enable some "extras". 00:04:08 schmrkc: I think author was looking for platform coverage, but overlooked clozure cl 00:04:15 osoleve: you'll have to be in slime-mode of course. 00:04:17 Emacs has a menu?! :P 00:04:18 syntard_: oh that makes sense. 00:04:43 sorry about my typing. it's been a long day. valium + xanax + wine + mJ makes for poor typing skills 00:05:29 osoleve: whatchor emacs slime config look like? 00:05:46 schmrkc: where do i find that? 00:05:57 in your ~/.emacs generally. 00:06:02 i'm very noob-ish, just started using emacs a day or two ago 00:06:09 ah ok. 00:06:38 http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Installation.html#Installation 00:06:49 but change the sbcl there to clisp I guess. 00:06:55 you can get fancy and have it run both. 00:07:04 i don't know, i'm more used to sbcl 00:07:17 alama [~alama@a79-169-95-120.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 00:07:23 and maybe hook inte lisp-mode etc. 00:07:29 right. but for the book. 00:09:07 xinming [~hyy@115.221.15.69] has joined #lisp 00:09:07 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:24 sorry, pastebin was acting up for me 00:09:29 my .emacs looks like this 00:09:31 http://pastebin.com/zhEQNTGU 00:10:03 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 00:11:18 and slime is not working for ya? 00:11:37 if it is, i don't know how to activate/use it :( 00:11:42 M-x slime 00:11:49 I also have some 00:11:53 (add-hook 'lisp-mode-hook (lambda () (slime-mode t))) 00:11:54 (add-hook 'inferior-lisp-mode-hook (lambda () (inferior-slime-mode t))) 00:11:56 going on. 00:12:00 not sure if that is even needed. 00:12:18 M-x slime yielded 00:12:20 apply: Searching for program: no such file or directory, lisp 00:12:58 of course, your paths are probably pasted 00:13:22 right yes. where's your sbcl at? 00:13:46 /usr/bin/sbcl 00:13:57 ok 00:14:06 *schmrkc* has no idea about the internals of slime to know what it is looking for. 00:14:09 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@239-9-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:14:12 I just set it up and it works ;) 00:14:55 i'll try reinstalling it? 00:15:00 osoleve: when you load emacs, are there errors in *messages* buffer 00:15:09 -!- trigen [~MSX@81.18.253.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:15:11 osoleve: first try restarting emacs after making config changes 00:15:31 osoleve: Personally I'd remove everything related to lisp or emacs that my distribution provided. and then install by hand. 00:15:35 me doesn't know how to make emacs reload config 00:15:51 and then actually try to figure out what the config is about :) 00:16:11 is it worth the effort just to get some lisp written? 00:16:13 well yeah it is :) 00:16:46 syntard_: Go to the *scratch* buffer. Evaluate the form (load "~/.emacs") by pressing C-J after you type it. 00:17:33 Quetzalcoatl_: Cool :) 00:18:09 Quetzalcoatl_: That tells me it's undefined :( 00:18:27 What's undefined? load? 00:18:54 nevermind, i figured it out sort of 00:18:59 i was doing C-c C-j 00:19:20 osoleve: does *messages* buffer give any clue? 00:19:32 anair_84 [~anair_84@149.142.112.2] has joined #lisp 00:20:19 Also, while in the ~/.emacs buffer, C-X C-E evaluates the form to the left of the cursor. 00:21:24 i'm so lost 00:21:26 oh well 00:21:47 osoleve: your goal is to make M-x slime work 00:22:03 osoleve: so examine messages for errors 00:22:12 how do i do that? 00:22:46 C-x b *messages* 00:23:45 this is the most it gives me 00:23:47 apply: Searching for program: no such file or directory, lisp 00:23:55 osoleve: I believe that adding (setq inferior-lisp-program "/usr/bin/sbcl") to your ~/.emacs would fix your problem. 00:24:50 osoleve: you can try to use clbuild. it helps alot with fetching and compiling of cvs slime/sbcl/ccl etc.. though for libraries quicklisp is king this days. 00:24:57 Quetzalcoatl_: That line is already in there :( 00:25:39 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.198.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:11 osoleve: http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/ 00:26:52 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@212-183-40-233.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 00:27:36 osoleve: What happens if you evaluate slime-lisp-implementations in *scratch*? 00:28:50 osoleve: Setting that variable to '((lisp ("lisp"))) reproduces your problem on my machine. 00:29:04 should be nil? 00:29:26 The default on my system is '((cmucl ("cmucl"))) 00:31:01 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-228.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 00:31:10 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 00:31:55 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:31:59 osoleve: Therefore, putting (setq slime-lisp-implementations '((sbcl ("/usr/bin/sbcl")))) in ~/.emacs should fix your problem. 00:32:02 i'm sorry, i can't even figure out how to get that value in scratch\ 00:32:21 Type slime-lisp-implementations, and then C-J. 00:33:21 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 00:34:13 okay, i get nil 00:34:52 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:53 osoleve: (setq slime-lisp-implementations '((sbcl ("/usr/bin/sbcl")))), then try again. 00:35:05 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 00:37:31 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:37:56 ArtVandalae [~SuperUnkn@220-253-41-243.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:38:59 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-93-221.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:39:14 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-86.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:41:35 yeah, slime still does nada for me 00:41:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.58.193] has quit [Quit: Must slee... zzz...] 00:42:21 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.77.104.33] has left #lisp 00:42:49 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:09 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-228.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:44:28 If it insists on looking for "lisp", then maybe symlinking /usr/bin/lisp -> /usr/bin/sbcl will do the trick. 00:45:33 makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 00:46:40 osoleve: you're positive you have sbcl? you ran it? 00:46:52 plenty of times 00:50:21 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 00:50:38 -!- ArtVandalae [~SuperUnkn@220-253-41-243.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:51:12 put that line above in .emacs and try again I guess 00:51:40 after restarting emacs 00:52:14 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.51.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:43 osoleve: How did you install your slime? 00:52:58 emerge slime 00:53:03 Xach: donor ? 00:53:12 osoleve: you were told about quicklisp 00:53:18 osoleve: I'd remove that and install from cvs or something. 00:53:23 quicklisp does slime? 00:53:32 osoleve: did you try it? 00:53:41 davazp [~user@83.54.167.3] has joined #lisp 00:53:47 adeht: not yet, been a busy day 00:54:10 osoleve: I suggest you try it 00:55:07 there's a quicklisp-slime-helper 00:55:36 That installs slime, eh? 00:55:53 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@149.142.112.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:56:16 I don't want to try it on my working setup 00:56:16 -!- unkanon [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:56:28 on a broken one, however :) 00:56:32 osoleve: we don't know much about your distribution, the slime version is uses, and any possible modifications it has gone through 00:56:50 ok, thanksanyways 00:57:03 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:23 osoleve: we suggested you use quicklisp for a reason. when you tell us about problems without listening to our suggestions it just wastes our time 00:58:24 fe[nl]ix: hello eh was? 00:59:10 Xach: just noticed your irc mask has changed :) 00:59:21 fe[nl]ix: ah yes 00:59:42 Ah yes! 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[~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:12:38 drforr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:07 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:48 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:15 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-95-120.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 03:14:19 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:16:23 -!- symbole [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:38 _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.106.62] has joined #lisp 03:21:06 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.106.62] has left #lisp 03:29:23 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:30 Heh. Lisp is pretty great. 108 lines of code for a TCP client that connects to a game, loops to collect some data points regularly, parses everything as need be, generates some basic stats, and starts a web server with a page that has some AJAX that makes regular requests back to the web server asking for the statistics, and then displays them without needing a refresh. 03:35:05 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-103-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:35:05 sykopomp: Paste it! :) 03:35:37 redline6561: There's something in the ToS about not reverse-engineering or generally fudging around with the game, so I probably shouldn't. 03:36:07 sykopomp: Good call. Silly licensing. What game? 03:36:38 and I thank quicklisp for making all the libraries quickly and easily accessible: usocket, yaclml, hunchentoot, cl-ppcre, and bordeaux-threads. 03:36:42 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-103-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:36:43 redline6561: I shouldn't tell you that either! 03:37:02 *redline6561* sighs 03:37:05 :D 03:37:08 :) 03:37:16 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:37:35 -!- jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:37:53 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:38:04 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-56-208.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:40:05 better not be hattrick! 03:40:16 it's not! It's not! 03:40:22 I don't even know what hattrick is... 03:40:41 hattrick is an online football (soccer) manager simulation 03:40:47 ah 03:40:53 ArtVandalae [~SuperUnkn@220-253-41-243.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:41:05 in lisp? 03:41:14 not as far as i know 03:41:49 which reminds me, my youth squad has a game in 20 minutes! 03:42:07 drewc: nah. It's for a MUD I play. They don't have a public "Who's online?" thing, so I basically wrote a bot that polls the server, as a character, and generates an AJAX page for me that I can keep around. As opposed to having to 'who' in-game every few minutes to see who's around. 03:42:16 *drewc* makes sure to get the game orders in 03:43:14 -!- drforr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:44:26 sykopomp: which mud is that? ;p 03:44:35 xristos: I can't say! 03:44:57 drforr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:06 oh cmon 03:45:40 xristos: it's in the ToS: can't say 03:45:46 ^ 03:46:17 the ToS is hilariously general. If I read it strictly, it sounds like I can't even take a screenshot and show it to someone ;) 03:46:43 mswc 03:49:05 so what muds do you play, sykopomp ? 03:49:16 schmrkc: pft :) 03:59:27 -!- Sulimo [~angel@host209-237-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:02:58 Sulimo [~angel@host209-237-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 04:03:12 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night] 04:16:11 -!- chp [~chp@114.113.66.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:16:51 Maou [~isra.wic@183.89.168.66] has joined #lisp 04:19:06 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:02 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:20:16 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@ppp-58-8-153-166.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:20:29 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@183.89.168.66] has joined #lisp 04:21:01 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@183.89.168.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:21:17 Maou [~isra.wic@183.89.168.66] has joined #lisp 04:24:17 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:25:20 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@183.89.168.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:25:36 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@183.89.168.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:25:42 thom_logn [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:49 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@ppp-58-8-153-166.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 04:29:18 chp [~chp@114.113.64.25] has joined #lisp 04:32:35 -!- az [~az@p4FE4FF24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:33:19 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:34:02 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 04:40:16 az [~az@p5796CCEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:47:10 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@ppp-58-8-153-166.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:52:13 troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:58 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:00 -!- starseek1r is now known as starseeker 04:56:26 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-78-43.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:59:11 bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:03 _nix001 [~Adium@58.33.106.62] has joined #lisp 05:02:04 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:02:07 -!- rme [rme@clozure-AC1C217F.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:02:07 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-122-27.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:02:50 -!- devinus [~devinus@cpe-66-68-82-202.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03:31 -!- _nix001 [~Adium@58.33.106.62] has left #lisp 05:08:08 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 05:10:20 -!- LegendaryPenguin [~Tn@pool-96-244-247-220.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:11:13 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-101-69.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:21 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-25-78.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:15:37 -!- troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:31 *syntard_* goes forth to bed for some sleep factor 05:17:56 -!- syntard_ [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 05:27:56 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:27:56 -!- plediii [~plediii@adsl-99-185-124-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:30:05 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-228.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 05:31:25 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@ppp-61-90-32-110.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 05:41:10 -!- ArtVandalae [~SuperUnkn@220-253-41-243.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:44:40 _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.106.62] has joined #lisp 05:44:41 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.106.62] has left #lisp 05:46:18 _nix002 [~Adium@58.33.106.62] has joined #lisp 05:46:24 -!- _nix002 [~Adium@58.33.106.62] has left #lisp 05:47:08 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:47:17 enupten [~neptune@117.254.144.141] has joined #lisp 05:49:50 I want to get involved in a lisp-project to learn lisp - is there any other way :). My inclination are towards Math, so I was thinking about Maxima. But it looks so big, almost scary. Has anyone here had first hand experience with Maxima devel here ? Advise ? 05:52:58 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:36 enupten: there's also ACL2, but it's also quite big. 05:57:11 pjb: Hmm, yes but I'm not really a logic guy :) 05:57:13 What kind of "Math" are you interested in? A lot of lisp system need some math, and more lisp systems using maths could be implemented. 05:57:56 The point is that since Lisp is strong on symbolic processing, it can help you a lot with maths, in non-numerical applications (and also in numerical applications of course). 05:58:10 cmsimon [~cms@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 05:58:13 pjb: I worked on some Computer Algebra, I think that'd be nice place to start off from. 05:58:14 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 06:00:08 pjb: Yes, lisp is very fascinating :) 06:00:09 For example, at els2010, there was two presentations about lisp used in maths applications: Verifying monadic second order graph properties with tree automata (Bruno Courcelle and Irčne Anne Durand), and A DSEL for Computational Category Theory (Aleksandar Bakic). 06:01:27 So, perhaps what would be nice, is to encapsulate some mathematic technique or theory into a lisp library usable by non specialists programmers. 06:01:59 Like some kind of ADT library, but with more sophisticated maths behind. 06:03:21 http://www.cliki.net/admin/search?words=math gives a few relevant links too. 06:06:37 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:06:51 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 06:07:16 pjb: Neat. 06:07:42 and of course: http://www.cliki.net/Mathematics 06:11:26 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.24.190] has joined #lisp 06:15:14 pjb: I'm (re) learning Abstract Algebra, do you know of any Computational Algebra-ish project in lisp ? 06:15:48 enupten: it might be most beneficial towards your goal of learning to simply implement a simple CAS from scratch. 06:17:11 enupten: that might get you up to speed and able to make useful contributions to, say, maxima more quickly than simply trying to learn maxima from nil. 06:17:17 I only speculate, of course. 06:17:42 Ralith: I guess, that's true. 06:20:04 Is there some nice way to compare arrays? I was hoping for (equal #(1 1 1) #(1 1 1)) but this was no go. 06:20:36 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-136-51-90.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 06:21:23 aha. equal only if they are eq 06:21:54 schmrkc: define 'compare' 06:22:05 schmrkc: do you mean "test the equality of corresponding elements?" 06:22:13 (at which point you must define 'equality') 06:22:14 I'd like to get a resounding T for #(1 1 1 1 1 1) and #(1 1 1 1 1 1) 06:22:15 right. 06:22:20 integer equality? 06:22:23 yeah 06:22:54 Here I was thinking life would be easier with a vector instead of a list :) 06:23:32 (every #'identity (map 'vector #'= #(1 1) #(1 1))) 06:23:35 there may be an easier way 06:23:55 is good enough for me. 06:24:02 (every #'= #(1 1) #(1 1)) appears to work correctly 06:24:47 'cept the part with it being T for #(1 1 1 1 1) and #(1 1 1) but that is no worries. 06:25:53 trivial enough to compare length in addition. 06:26:12 yup 06:30:03 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:30:25 talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has joined #lisp 06:34:16 -!- The_Fellow1 [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:35:15 schmrkc: use equalp: (equalp #(1 1 1) #(1 1 1)) --> T 06:35:28 oooh 06:35:52 actually every turned out to be nicer. My brain was thinking wrong. 06:35:54 thanks :) 06:35:59 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:36:23 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.254.144.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:38:28 -!- talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:42:05 psilord [~psilord@76.201.145.79] has joined #lisp 06:42:20 -!- psilord [~psilord@76.201.145.79] has left #lisp 06:45:25 -!- pepone [~pepone@83.37.195.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46:22 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-136-51-90.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:47:29 Ralith_ [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:35 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-103-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:47:41 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-103-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:47:46 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50:45 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 06:58:08 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:52 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-103-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:00:03 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:00:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:00:03 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:00:47 machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:24 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-103-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:02:56 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 07:06:45 -!- Electrifiedspam [~Electrifi@adsl-99-97-218-232.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:07:33 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B327FA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:50 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 07:10:18 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:10:26 -!- machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:10:36 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B326890.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:11:16 machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:28 -!- machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:12:13 machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:37 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:16:54 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:33 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:14 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:19:56 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:22:12 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:23:59 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 07:24:05 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:28:01 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:03 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 07:36:52 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 07:38:51 which is the recommended lib for socket programming? 07:39:09 -!- xan_ [~xan@173-13-121-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:39:10 usocket if you want to keep it simple, iolib if you want more features, and something more robust. 07:39:31 -!- kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:39:46 sykopomp: thanks. iolib depends on a c lib right? 07:40:30 I'm not sure. I think it just hooks into the OS' libraries, which should already be with your OS? 07:41:38 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:41:38 there is libfixposix dependency. I think it isn't fully functional on OSX. 07:43:17 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:45:25 timor [~timor@port-92-195-36-155.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:45:35 leo2007: if you only need sockets, it's fine 07:47:17 fe[nl]ix: that's great! 07:47:21 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:59 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:52:14 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 07:54:33 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:56:13 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:59:50 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:03:44 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 08:04:47 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-228.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:06:50 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:07:59 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:11:44 I've got a program with a circular data structure and SBCl chokes on it when printing it out 08:12:03 its there a simple way to tell format to give up after N levels? 08:12:23 clhs *print-circular* 08:12:23 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for *print-circular*. 08:12:34 -!- hdurer_ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:12:36 thanks Ill google that 08:12:45 clhs *print-circle* 08:12:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_pr_cir.htm 08:13:12 what does google know abut lisp? nothing 08:13:16 heh 08:13:23 hdurer_ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:50 spacebat: are you and specbot related? 08:14:02 your names look similar 08:14:07 distantly perhaps 08:14:30 I feel like a drone some days 08:15:21 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:19:55 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:00 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 08:20:11 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:00 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:36:18 ivan4th: herep 08:36:36 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 08:38:39 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 08:48:12 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has joined #lisp 08:51:16 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:51:27 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.24.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:53:02 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:56:43 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@213-33-4-96.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 08:59:41 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757a2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:45 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:09:01 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 09:10:48 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.198.56] has joined #lisp 09:20:24 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:02 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:27:02 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:27:18 makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 09:27:31 quantum [~nurlan@109.127.22.125] has joined #lisp 09:32:14 Nibble [~Nibble@81-235-216-50-no113.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:32:17 hello again 09:32:23 hello 09:32:39 anyone here have an example of a minimal irc bot (preferrabely using usocket)? 09:32:56 minion: cl-irc? 09:32:57 cl-irc: cl-irc is an IRC networking library written in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cl-irc 09:33:07 there is a bot example in cl-irc yes 09:33:15 also, it seems that I have to reinstall packages with asdf each time I launch sbcl to make them get registered again 09:33:42 yes, you have to or you have to put all you want in a .sbclrc file 09:33:58 like load this and that package at start-time 09:34:08 how do I load a package 09:34:12 homie: no 09:34:24 you don't have to put anything into .sbclrc 09:34:25 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@ppp-61-90-32-110.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:34:41 Nibble: (asdf:load-system name) 09:34:54 i meant that 09:35:18 stassats: is it :usocket or just usocket? 09:35:29 :usocket 09:35:33 or 'usocket, or "usocket" 09:39:14 pepone [~pepone@83.37.195.56] has joined #lisp 09:46:54 -!- machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 09:49:42 or #:usocket 09:50:23 no, '#:usocket 09:51:55 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 09:52:03 Good morning. 09:52:44 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:53:13 I have bought an Arduino and digged out ryepup's code mentioned in http://ryepup.unwashedmeme.com/blog/2009/09/28/talking-usb-serial-to-my-arduino-from-lisp-sbcl-on-linux/ 09:54:02 Has anybody among you used it? 09:56:20 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:57:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:59:19 H4ns``` [~user@p579F8B3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:35 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 10:01:14 -!- nasloc__ [tim@163.16.211.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:03:23 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:32 -!- H4ns`` [~user@p579F8EB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:05:46 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 10:06:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:09:01 code22 [MiRC@180.191.42.11] has joined #lisp 10:13:00 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:13:23 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:14:49 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.21.150.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:15:31 kmurph79 [~kmurph79@66-215-55-253.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 10:24:27 easyE [g9WBYdeqs3@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 Is the best idiom for testing whether two lists contain the same strings (and (not (set-difference a b :test #'equal)) (not (set-difference b a :test #'equal)))? 10:26:43 -!- kmurph79 [~kmurph79@66-215-55-253.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: kmurph79] 10:26:53 Here you are not comparing lists, but sets. 10:27:14 To compare if two lists contain the same strings, you would have first to define 'same'. 10:27:14 Yeah, treating a list as a set. 10:27:26 #'EQUAL is good enough for me. 10:28:44 Then (equal l1 l2) will do. 10:28:57 Notice that CLHS defines same to be EQL. 10:29:07 Hmm. Even if the order is diffrent? 10:29:12 So be careful when you say same here. 10:29:19 Lists are ordered collections. 10:29:33 Ah, but I want to treat them as Sets. 10:29:40 What about ("a" "b") ("b" "a" "b") 10:30:08 The second isn't a legal set in my context (multisets aren't allowed) 10:30:10 the latter doesn't look like a set 10:30:16 So if you want sets, I would use (defun set-equal (a b) (and (subsetp a b :test (function equal)) (subsetp b a :test (function equal)))) 10:30:38 Is SUBSETP expected to be faster? 10:30:46 easyE: notice that in lisp, all the set operator consider ("b" "a" "b") a valid representant of the same set as ("a" "b") . 10:31:03 pjb: ok. 10:31:31 I'm don't know if it's faster. I'd think yes, but in any case it depends on the implementation. 10:31:41 SUBSETP should be faster than the Cartesian product of SET-DIFFERENCE I guess. 10:31:44 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.62.194] has joined #lisp 10:31:46 subsetp doesn't have to cons a new list. set-difference has to do so. 10:31:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:31:59 pjb: makes sense. 10:32:18 As I really care about the predicate, not the actual SET-DIFFERENCE. 10:32:29 s0ng0ku [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:36 Ok. Thanks, that's enough for me to experiment with further. 10:32:48 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 10:33:21 Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.62.194] has joined #lisp 10:34:02 pjb: small style question: is there a reason for you to prefer (function equal) over #'equal? 10:34:32 to not get trapped by the reader ? 10:34:51 Trapped in what sense? 10:35:02 Personal taste. Also, I notice that newbies make more errors with #"x than with (function x) which clearly indicates we want to consider x as a function. 10:35:21 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:35:22 pjb: thanks. 10:35:48 easyE: well, #'x invokes a more complex reader mechanism than (function x). #' is a _dispatching_ reader macro, while ( is a mere reader macro. :-) 10:35:55 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.62.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:35:55 -!- quantum [~nurlan@109.127.22.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:36:17 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.62.194] has joined #lisp 10:36:33 And the worry about the complexity is that it involves more computation or that it might make certain expressions behave in funny ways? 10:37:16 minion: paste 116329? 10:37:16 Paste number 116329: "set-equal" by stassats in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/116329 10:37:19 easyE: no, there's absolutely no problem here. THe lisp readers are quite simple and well debugged chunks of code. 10:37:35 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.62.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:37:52 Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.62.194] has joined #lisp 10:38:22 stassats: you fail: (set-equal '(1 2 3) '(1 1 2 3)) -> NIL 10:38:34 no you! 10:38:38 the second is not a set 10:38:42 Yes it is. 10:38:46 Check CLHS. 10:38:47 no, it is not 10:38:55 i don't care about what clhs says about sets 10:38:57 Yes it is, for all CL set functions. 10:40:21 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:36 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.62.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:41:02 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.62.194] has joined #lisp 10:41:05 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:41:41 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BBC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:10 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.62.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:42:47 Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.62.194] has joined #lisp 10:45:30 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.62.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:45:51 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.62.194] has joined #lisp 10:46:30 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:46:50 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 10:47:05 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 10:47:06 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.62.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:47:10 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@239-9-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 10:47:13 rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:47:26 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:48:38 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 10:49:02 -!- Nibble [~Nibble@81-235-216-50-no113.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 10:49:06 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-238-140.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:49:10 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:49:34 _6502_ [4e0ceda4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.237.164] has joined #lisp 10:50:53 was wondering if this --> http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/doc/cl/loop.html covers all possible loop constructs with examples? 10:51:16 or is there some other site that explains what possible things I can do with loop with some examples 10:51:16 no 10:51:24 clhs loop 10:51:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm 10:52:31 there are quite a lot of possibilities but very little sample code using loop 10:52:36 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:53:20 you have a BNF grammar, you can imagine all sorts of samples 10:53:37 say for example 10:53:38 main-clause::= unconditional | accumulation | conditional | termination-test | initial-final 10:53:51 is this saying I can say "accumulation" in the very end? 10:54:21 Because the examples in that site I posted seem to be following a different format? 10:54:32 it says that main-clause may be either of those 10:55:00 <_6502_> there are no symbol-macros at the top level ? 10:55:05 and main-clause is the very last one 10:55:06 clhs d-s-m 10:55:06 DEFINE-SYMBOL-MACRO: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_1.htm 10:55:12 edlinde: yes 10:55:42 ok I was just trying to match this -> > (loop for i from 1 to 3 collect (* i i)) 10:55:42 (1 4 9) 10:56:17 ah I see it now 10:56:21 "for i from 1 to 3" is a variable clause, and "collect (* i i)" is an accumulation clause 10:56:23 sorry I misread the BNF 10:56:34 yeh got that just now 10:56:35 cheers 10:56:36 thanks 10:57:00 i overlooked that in main-clause say the "accumulation" is another BNF 10:57:09 accumulation::= list-accumulation | numeric-accumulation 10:57:18 which in turn something else etc etc :) 10:57:20 ok thanks 10:57:26 clhs 1.4.1.2 10:57:27 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/01_dab.htm 10:58:14 is a string considered a vector of characters? 10:58:15 clhs 6.1 10:58:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/06_a.htm 10:58:28 edlinde: see this link for more wordy descriptions 10:58:33 edlinde: yes 10:58:43 ok 10:58:43 and for examples 11:00:03 ok thanks 11:00:05 trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 11:00:07 this is really useful 11:00:15 must learn to navigate the Hyperspec 11:01:41 -!- s0ng0ku [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:01:51 other than PCL are there other books that explain the concept of "Macro Writing" better? 11:01:57 with more examples and stuff? 11:02:20 let over lambda does 11:02:31 it's all about macros 11:02:34 edlinde: On Lisp 11:02:39 I am about to read Chap 8 on Macros in PCL 11:02:39 and that yes 11:02:53 you should first read on lisp 11:03:04 On Lisp by Paul Graham yeah? 11:03:10 yep 11:03:34 the later chapters are too much advanced for me, i skipped the prolog tutorials all-together 11:03:41 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:03:47 I am looking at it right now 11:03:47 just skimmed over them 11:04:09 edlinde: the pcl chapter would be enough to get you started 11:04:11 if you have it in front of you ... maybe I can discuss what chapters are good for Macros? 11:04:14 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:04:30 yeah I will read the PCL one first and then move onto On Lisp 11:04:37 i didn't look into the macro's chapter of pcl yet 11:04:54 beach: have you read On Lisp macros sections? 11:05:38 edlinde: I have read the entire book several times, and taught a few courses based on it. 11:05:45 macros seem so simple to me now, i don't know why one should read anything about them 11:05:47 Ah cool 11:05:59 heheh I can understand what you mean 11:06:06 but think back when you guys were starting out :) 11:07:00 this On Lisp looks great - eventually when I get time I can complete it all but for the time being I got an assignment to do which has a lot of Macros writing... and our prof skimmed over this stuff in a matter of minutes 11:07:12 at the beginning you think macros are complex, something completely else, and then when you read about them, write them, bam, you see that they are nothing more than programs operating on lists 11:08:01 the only thing you need to learn is when not to use macros 11:08:22 ok I will read through the PCL chapter and see the parts that I get stuck on and then maybe you guys can help 11:08:43 I mean in very simple terms I see this macros as a way to write code that generates code 11:08:47 in layman terms really 11:09:11 <_6502_> is the third line of the examples of macroexpand in clhs a typo ? 11:09:15 esp with the back-quoting and stuff 11:09:32 back-quoting isn't necessary for macros 11:09:41 and it's limited to macros 11:09:47 but then I am not sure about bits and pieces like - gensym.. I mean when one does it when not etc... 11:10:21 stassats: yeah to me BQ sounds like.. the ' (backtick) 11:10:25 ahhh sorry 11:10:39 ` backtick is for turning off the evaluator 11:10:43 and , to turn it on 11:10:50 nice and simple :) 11:10:54 is that true? 11:10:55 <_6502_> stassats: you mean it's NOT limited to macros ? sometimes i use it as a list builder... 11:11:09 _6502_: surely 11:12:01 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:42 <_6502_> i don't understand how to get the expansion of a symbol-macro 11:13:02 beach: do you recommend some chapters that I could pick from On Lisp that will help me get the hang of macros? 11:13:15 <_6502_> (symbol-macrolet ((x (progn (print "foo") NIL))) x) --> outputs foo and returns NIL, as it should 11:13:24 there seem to be a lot of macro chapters in that book 11:14:05 <_6502_> but how can I get my hands on the definition (progn (print ...)) ? 11:14:54 <_6502_> (macroexpand x) evaluates it (so it prints and returns NIL) 11:15:03 <_6502_> (macroexpand 'x) instead returns X 11:15:18 -!- makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:15:27 (macrolet ((env (&environment env) env)) (symbol-macrolet ((x (progn (print "foo") NIL))) (macroexpand-1 'x (env)))) => (PROGN (PRINT "foo") NIL) 11:15:31 Maou [~isra.wic@ppp-61-90-32-110.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:15:49 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:55 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:16:12 <_6502_> stassats: ouch ... i'll take the afternoon to think about it 11:17:29 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.62.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:17:49 there is nothing complex about it, local macros (and global too) are expanded at macro-expansion time, and after that they cease to exist, but macroexpand is running at run-time 11:17:52 <_6502_> ahh ok. i need the environment to see the macro 11:18:01 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:04 so you need to capture the local environment 11:18:38 <_6502_> yeah... reading carefully i got it.... i'm not used to play with environments (my toy lisp implementation doesn't have them) 11:18:43 flet ? 11:18:48 labels ? 11:18:57 to capture local env ? 11:19:07 homie: how about "making sense"? 11:19:48 s0ng0ku [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:12 <_6502_> tanks guys :-) ... lunch time for me... later 11:22:38 -!- _6502_ [4e0ceda4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.237.164] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:25:08 stassats: can you give me a quick example to try on REPL for ,@ ? 11:25:35 I just saw it in a defmacro where it said that the value passed in is "spliced" into the array 11:25:42 but I am not sure if that is the case here 11:26:10 stassats: should I write out the macro example? 11:26:13 `(1 2 3 4 ,@(list 5 6 7) 8 9 10) 11:26:33 and compare with just , 11:26:38 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 11:26:41 yeah that worked as I expected 11:27:00 ok PCL was talking about the WHEN macro 11:27:08 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:27:37 (defmacro when (condition &rest body ) `(if ,condition (progn ,@body))) 11:28:04 and calls when with --> (when (> x 10) (print 'big)) 11:28:15 he then says the end result is 11:28:29 (if (> x 10) (progn (print 'big))) 11:28:45 so this means "print 'big" gets spliced in yeah? 11:28:47 body becomes ((print 'big)) so you need to splice it inside PROGN 11:28:53 coz it replaces ,@body 11:29:24 why are we passing in ((print 'big)) 11:29:29 I mean two braces on each side? 11:29:37 I thought it was just (print 'big) 11:29:37 ? 11:29:47 vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 11:29:56 thats why I was thinking when you splice in a list like that you take off one level of braces yeah? 11:30:05 that was my confusion 11:31:03 ah is it because everything AFTER &rest is in a list? 11:31:16 so body is actually really a list? 11:31:43 stassats: am I making sense? 11:32:57 yes, &rest is a list of passed arguments 11:33:43 you can define LIST as (defun list (&rest args) args) 11:33:46 I thought &rest was just more like a marker to say everything AFTER &rest goes into "body" as a list? 11:34:29 yes, args is the list of remaining arguments 11:34:47 hmm I am not sure I have seen an example like yours before 11:35:00 list is the name of the function 11:35:12 (&rest args) is just collecting arguments into a list 11:35:18 list called args 11:35:26 and then whats the last "args" argument for? 11:35:47 it's not an argument, you just return args 11:35:55 ah sorry 11:35:57 its the body 11:36:00 right get you 11:36:07 try (defun my-list (&rest args) args) 11:36:20 sbcl won't you redefine list 11:36:53 and (my-list 1 2 3) => (1 2 3), just like (list 1 2 3) 11:36:55 and you might not get a fresh list, etc. 11:36:55 yeah works 11:37:16 yep I think I got the hang of this one 11:37:17 thanks! 11:39:03 nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has joined #lisp 11:39:08 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 11:39:08 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 11:39:31 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-117-34.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:45:02 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@201.82.192.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:46:03 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-119-51.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:50:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-26-225.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:50:15 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: Lämnar] 11:51:03 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 11:56:06 is "destructuring" of parameter lists something that is specific to Macros only? 11:56:17 or would it work with normal functions too? 11:57:01 clhs 3.4 11:57:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_d.htm 11:58:15 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@ppp-61-90-32-110.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:58:35 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:59:23 thanks 11:59:25 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:01:22 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-150.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:49 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:07:42 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-136-51-90.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:47 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:12:25 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:40 vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 12:14:36 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:21:41 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:23:37 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-36-155.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:26:12 pebkc [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:26:35 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.84.145] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:28:16 edlinde_ [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:28:17 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:17 -!- edlinde_ is now known as edlinde 12:28:29 *pebkc* runs ql:system-list and is greatly surprised by the amount of output 12:30:57 -!- pebkc [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has left #lisp 12:31:11 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:33:00 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:36:59 timor [~timor@port-92-195-124-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:39:38 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:39:38 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 12:39:38 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 12:40:29 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Client Quit] 12:41:55 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-154-25.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:42:36 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-124-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:44:45 12:45:20 *Xach* is going to add a lot more today 12:46:08 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:22 -!- Buganini_ is now known as Buganini 12:46:28 Xach, Is sb-cga included yet? 12:46:51 Guthur: yes 12:47:06 http://blog.quicklisp.org/ has an incomplete list 12:47:54 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 12:50:02 Xach, has the systems location changed? 12:50:08 I'm not seeing sb-cga 12:50:52 Guthur: oh, when you say "yet", and i say "yes", I mean it will be in today's update. 12:51:06 Guthur: it's not available for quickload yet 12:51:15 ah ok 12:51:28 netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-131.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 12:51:56 oh I see in the blog, sorry didn't crok it well enough 12:52:29 classimp would be nice 12:52:55 _3b: Would you consider classimp more or less complete? 12:53:46 murilasso [~murilasso@201.82.192.69] has joined #lisp 12:56:30 -!- jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:56 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:58:34 assimp isn't in debian, which makes it slightly harder to build classimp 12:58:44 jewel [~jewel@209.118.182.194] has joined #lisp 12:59:55 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:02:05 timor [~timor@port-92-195-104-79.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:02:55 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet141.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 13:03:23 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-154-25.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:04:38 ah, wonder why it's never made it in 13:04:59 It appears quite a mature lib 13:05:52 well, it isn't in my debian...maybe my debian and ubuntu are too old. 13:06:41 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-104-79.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:09:16 Xach, Nope it's not there at all 13:09:47 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 13:11:03 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 13:12:04 Is there a command in quicklisp to download and install everything? 13:12:12 Or at least to download everything? 13:13:53 pjb: not a short command, but you can do this... 13:14:14 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-78-43.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:20 (use-package :ql-dist) (map nil 'ensure-installed (provided-releases (dist "quicklisp"))) 13:14:25 -!- pepone [~pepone@83.37.195.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:26 use package prefixes as needed 13:14:43 pepone [~pepone@83.37.195.56] has joined #lisp 13:16:52 -!- jewel [~jewel@209.118.182.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:18:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:19:20 -!- Revolve [~hi@cpc4-bagu10-2-0-cust705.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:19:58 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-194-233.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:36 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:22:12 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 13:22:32 timor [~timor@port-92-195-23-5.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:02 Revolve [~hi@cpc4-bagu10-2-0-cust705.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:44 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-101-69.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:26:03 Xach: thanks. 13:26:19 I'll do that this night... 13:31:01 dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-222.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:32:29 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:39:13 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-228.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 13:39:45 Xach: I've been wondering if there was a way to do that. Thanks. 13:41:06 alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has joined #lisp 13:41:17 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:43:14 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-150.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 13:43:33 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.200] has joined #lisp 13:45:12 Xach: Besides, now there's a #lisp tweet that will get you 300+ libraries! :) 13:46:25 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757a2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:17 jeti [~user@p548E9F4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:20 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 13:53:58 pmd` [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 13:54:16 -!- pmd` [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:16 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:38 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 13:56:51 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-228.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:58:19 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-69-218.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:00:50 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-23-5.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:00:57 timor [~timor@port-92-195-114-223.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:01:04 quantum [~nurlan@109.127.28.46] has joined #lisp 14:02:24 syntard_ [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:36 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-69-218.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:36 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:06:23 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-150.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:38 urandom__ [~user@p548A2E52.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:01 Administrator [~Administr@110.84.250.13] has joined #lisp 14:07:27 -!- Administrator is now known as Guest73348 14:07:44 -!- Guest73348 is now known as cckk 14:11:42 hirvine [~hirvine@ppp141-150.konnect.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:29 -!- hirvine [~hirvine@ppp141-150.konnect.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:20:48 _6502_ [4e0ceda4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.237.164] has joined #lisp 14:22:41 -!- s0ng0ku [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:23:01 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.51.132] has joined #lisp 14:23:57 <_6502_> is paste.lisp.org down ? 14:24:10 no 14:24:26 unkanon [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:24:36 <_6502_> i submitted a paste and i'm staring at a white page :-/ 14:25:30 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:38 _6502_: the problem is in (write x :stream f) 14:27:05 <_6502_> thanks... so it's normal that after a paste one doesn't get any ack message ? 14:27:12 no 14:28:05 <_6502_> also i thought that it would have posted a message in this channel too... may be it's disconnected from the channel 14:28:23 no, it doesn't post in this channel anymore 14:28:36 <_6502_> oh... ok 14:31:21 edlinde_ [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:33:24 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:33:25 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:33:25 -!- edlinde_ is now known as edlinde 14:38:40 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@ppp-58-8-95-164.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:42:08 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:42:38 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:42:49 xan_ [~xan@173-13-121-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:34 Electrifiedspam [~Electrifi@adsl-99-97-218-232.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:11 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 14:47:32 -!- xan_ [~xan@173-13-121-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:48:00 -!- quantum [~nurlan@109.127.28.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:49:04 jdz [~jdz@87.4.39.205] has joined #lisp 14:49:45 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet141.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:54:52 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 14:55:59 -!- p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:18 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 14:57:55 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has quit [Quit:  In our sky there is no limits, and masters we have none; heavy metal is the only one! ] 14:58:07 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:00:32 -!- cckk [~Administr@110.84.250.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:01:50 p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:03:30 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:47 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.51.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:10 Saturnation [~dsouth@pool-64-222-89-232.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:05 -!- chp [~chp@114.113.64.25] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:09:13 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-39-198.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:11:23 -!- billstclair_ is now known as billstclair 15:11:30 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 15:11:30 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:12:05 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-114-223.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:12:44 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@ppp-58-8-95-164.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:13:23 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-39-198.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:17:21 hi guys I have this problem I am solving 15:17:22 Write a function that takes two lists and returns t if the first is shorter, nil otherwise. It should not use any built-in function except cons, car, cdr and null. 15:17:34 was wondering if its possible to do it only with the given functions? 15:17:52 'morning 15:18:01 would it not require an if or a cond to ensure what to return when the base case is reached? 15:18:18 IF and COND are not functions 15:18:46 so can I use them.. is that what you are saying? 15:19:15 how do i know 15:19:18 stassats: I am seeing that the prof doesn't want us to use any do or loop 15:19:48 well what do you make out of the instructions? 15:19:48 does he want recursion? 15:20:01 don't know it doesn't say so in the question 15:20:13 I thought we weren't supposed to do homework around here. 15:20:33 yeah no one is... just a question about the question 15:20:36 :) 15:20:41 I don't want the solution 15:20:57 want to know if its even possible or is the question stupid 15:21:10 it is possible 15:21:45 to do this entire thing using nothing but - cons, car, cdr and null ? 15:22:04 and no if or cond? 15:22:09 is there some abstruse reason why you can't just call length on each list and pass the output to #'< ? 15:22:38 edlinde: since if and cond are not functions, use them 15:22:52 ah k 15:24:09 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:24:32 I mean... there's no need for any big involved structure there. #'< is a predicate 15:24:38 the function is a one liner. 15:25:27 (defun dumb (l1 l2) (< (length l1) (length l2))) 15:25:43 'course, I haven't had any coffee yet. 15:26:06 what if one of the lists is (or both are) circular? 15:26:12 Fade: can't. it's just not in the assignment. 15:26:24 list-length :) 15:26:30 Fade: it'll be slow if the second list is much larger 15:27:19 stassats: true, but I'd point to premature optimisation before I replaced that one liner with an involved wedge of code. :) 15:27:52 if the lists are circular structures, then it hangs. 15:27:57 timor [~timor@port-92-195-27-86.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:28:07 because (length n) hangs. 15:28:11 in such cases. 15:29:02 (defun dumber (x y) (let ((x-length (list-length x)) (y-length (list-length y))) (cond ((and (null x-length) (null y-length)) nil) ((null y-length) t) ((null x-length) nil) ((< x-length y-length) t) (t nil)))) 15:29:12 Oh, i just saw the "don't use any built in features except ..." clause 15:29:20 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:03 are you required to stand on one leg while coding the assignment? do you get bonus points for doing so while blindfolded? 15:30:55 *Fade* drinks coffee and shuts up 15:31:20 I suppose the task was given so that the student will practice using recursion.. so I assume IF is allowed. edlinde should ask his prof, not us, to be sure 15:31:52 well, if he can only use cons car cdr and null, that's going to be a bear. :) 15:32:17 he should also ask whether improper lists are allowed, while at it! 15:33:07 cmm: :-) right. 15:33:28 it can be solved using only IF, and CDR 15:33:45 and recursion 15:34:35 <_6502_> it can be solved with any turing-complete subset 15:35:18 "I don't think it means what you think it does" 15:36:13 too bad i can't paste the solution :( 15:36:16 stupid homeworks! 15:36:30 stassats: except for the case of improper and circular lists 15:36:32 I'd suggest going with TAGBODY. special operator != function. and it is butt ugly. 15:36:39 is DEFUN allowed? 15:36:47 adeht: macro 15:36:48 *_6502_* was thinking to write a brainf*ck interpreter in lisp, then a lisp in such a brainf*ck, then using only if, cdr and recursion in that lisp 15:37:17 ehu: my solution works on improper, but not on circular lists 15:37:31 ehu: right, but like IF, it wasn't explicitly allowed 15:37:32 and it doesn't do laundry either 15:37:45 is there a standard predicate to detect circular lists? 15:37:47 edlinde: cons or consp? 15:37:50 adeht: but if is not a built-in _function_ 15:38:01 Fade: list-length 15:38:11 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 15:38:18 list-length is a function 15:38:22 stassats: the exercise didn't say "everything else allowed" 15:38:29 stassats: so it's left unspecified 15:38:37 ehu :cons 15:39:00 hmm. why would I want to use CONS in a predicate function? 15:39:09 certainly, it's better to make it using IF, than not making it at all 15:39:15 cond and if I do get. 15:39:31 adeht: are you saying if and cond shouldn't be used? 15:39:36 must be a devious misdirection tactic 15:39:37 if if is allowed, are all special forms? 15:39:46 the question seems untenably vague. 15:39:50 hmm 15:39:55 I can't tell what a victory condition would be. 15:39:58 maybe it's a typo? conD instead of conS 15:40:00 edlinde: I already said that I assume DEFUN and IF are allowed, but that if you want to be sure you'll have to ask your prof 15:40:12 ok 15:41:18 6502: I think pjb did that 15:41:27 then I guess we all agree: insufficiently specified. 15:41:38 6502: wrote BF in Lisp and Lisp in BF (partially?) 15:41:43 a cond test clause can I have multiple sequential outputs? 15:41:49 but sufficient for nit-picking 15:41:49 or sequential forms? 15:41:51 <_6502_> if no loops are allowed may be this is a job for the Y combinator ? 15:42:04 y combinator is a loop 15:42:10 ? 15:42:10 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:42:43 also I don't get why I need to use a cons here? 15:42:44 <_6502_> adeht: i thought i was one with too much free time in my hands... but apparently i'm a no one compared to this gui 15:43:03 edlinde: you don't need to use CAR and NULL either 15:43:21 ok thats even weirder then :) 15:43:22 <_6502_> gui=guy 15:43:29 -!- p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:43:49 6502: http://informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/brainfuck/ 15:44:35 <_6502_> stassats: i mean you can use recursion without defun, so no excplicit loop 15:44:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:45:03 however you call it, it's a loop 15:45:37 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:47:13 <_6502_> adeht: i only used brainf*ck once, for a project euler problem... alternative acceptable languages were whitespace and another absurd one (the one with come-from instead of go-to and where + - * / are unary operations) 15:47:28 enupten [~neptune@117.254.157.103] has joined #lisp 15:47:32 intercal 15:48:06 <_6502_> yeah... that one. of the group brainf*ck was the most interesting one to learn IMO :-) 15:48:20 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 15:48:20 brainfuck is borin 15:48:20 g 15:48:23 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-44-124.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:35 intercal at least tries to be funny 15:50:17 6502: some years ago I actually made good use (!) of brainfuck 15:51:03 adeht: you gave it syntax? :-P 15:51:49 p_l|home [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:52:32 I used it as an executable watermark in an environment where copying someone else's code was a plausible possibility 15:52:51 oh, wow 15:53:02 *osoleve* bows 15:53:34 interesting 15:53:51 the bf interpreter lived in the program with the watermark? 15:54:10 shakshak [~user@41.238.33.63] has joined #lisp 15:54:50 Fade: yes.. the watermark was the bf code itself.. if it was found in someone else's executable which was supposed to do the same, I knew mine was ripped 15:55:56 but the choice of brainfuck was arbitrary? 15:56:07 stassats: yes, it could've been any awkward way to do things 15:56:17 -!- osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:04 Might have been amusing if someone /noticed/, realized what it was for, ripped your code, and replaced the bf interpreter with an unlambda interpreter. 15:57:13 :D 15:58:02 i like unlambda better, at least it has continuations 15:58:42 -!- krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:59:26 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:59:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:59:42 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-238-140.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 15:59:52 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:01:23 quantum [~nurlan@109.127.29.96] has joined #lisp 16:02:36 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-27-86.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:02:50 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 16:02:59 timor [~timor@port-92-195-53-75.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:03:13 redline6561: dang it, that costs me a penny every time someone does it! 16:03:40 *Xach* has had many generous donations to cover that cost, so won't worry about it yet 16:04:07 Xach: I know I covered a few of those. ;) 16:06:10 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-103-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:06:21 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757a2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:42 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-104-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:06:47 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-104-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:06:48 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.15.69] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:07:03 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-53-75.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:07:36 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-104-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:50 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-104-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:07 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-103-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:10 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 16:11:11 my first attempt to writing a function and I get a million syntax errors :( 16:11:51 : 16:11:52 16:11:54 drdo` [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:11:55 sorry! 16:12:07 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:12:17 edlinde: that usually happens on the first attempt 16:12:32 my braces are all over the place :( 16:12:47 -!- s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:13:04 http://paste.lisp.org/display/116335 16:13:11 thats my super newbie first attempt code 16:13:20 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:13:35 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:13:39 edlinde: why (cond ... (t (if ..) ..)? 16:13:41 I know it could be logically wrong... but I just want to see it compile.. not sure which part of the syntax is wrong 16:13:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:13:55 -!- s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:14:03 edlinde: seems like that's another cond clause, isn't it? 16:14:08 ehu: ok I was thinking that if the second list l2 goes empty we stop recursion 16:14:09 osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:23 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:14:23 can anyone hear me? :( 16:14:32 ehu: I didn't quite catch you 16:14:37 osoleve: nah. I can read you though. 16:14:37 -!- osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:15:06 ehu: i thought the second clause in the cond is the 't' one which is like a catch all one yeah? 16:15:08 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:15:10 edlinde: (cond ((= x 1) ...) (t (if (= x 2) ...))) ==== 16:15:34 (cond ((= x 1) ..) ((= x 2) ...) (t ...))) 16:15:35 what a terrible code! 16:16:03 stassats: you mean the one I pasted? 16:16:07 yes 16:16:08 yes. 16:16:15 yeah well its my first attempt 16:16:31 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 16:16:34 you should not try to put other language's semantics on Lisp. 16:16:40 haven't written any lisp code on my own yet... plus this stupid restrictions of using only the most basic stuff 16:16:43 osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:45 wow 16:16:46 you have opening parens *after* the function name. 16:16:49 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 16:16:53 that's wrong 16:17:00 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743]] 16:17:04 drdo: As in... THE DrDo? 16:17:20 as in archenemy of DrLoop 16:17:23 edlinde: well, even that restriction was too dificult for you to write correct code... 16:17:50 you need to concentrate on the semantics of lisp before you even try to do anything else. 16:18:09 yeah ofcourse 16:18:20 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 16:18:21 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-104-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:18:37 you say I have a opening brace after the function name ...? 16:18:47 yes. 16:18:48 car(l1) 16:18:49 isn't that where my list of parameters goesin? 16:18:51 exactly. 16:18:52 <_6502_> ouch... unlambda is crazy; brainf*ck looks like cobol compared to unlambda 16:18:57 edlinde: no. 16:19:00 (car l1) 16:19:12 calls CAR with l1 as its parameter. 16:19:13 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442446.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 16:19:40 ah I get you 16:20:09 drdo: I'm used to being ignored, so I'll just say it anyways: so far, I'm a big fan of your new book. It complements PCL very well for a beginner like me. 16:20:20 osoleve: I'm not whoever you think i am 16:20:21 wasn't there some class where they told you this? 16:20:29 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.254.157.103] has quit [Quit: quitting...] 16:20:38 drdo: you're not the drdo of reddit? 16:21:02 awesome it compiled 16:21:06 thanks guys! :) 16:21:06 osoleve: drcode wrote Land of Lisp. 16:21:13 my reddit username is in fact "drdo" 16:21:20 riiiiiiight, drcode. 16:21:21 my bad. 16:21:30 all Doctors look the same to me :| 16:21:37 drdo stands for my real name's initials 16:21:44 ah 16:21:45 ehu: yeah I know how car is called dude.. I just wasn't thinking straight ad I got lost in the brackets 16:22:03 osoleve stands for... as mashup of part of my last name and th espanish word for bear. :3 16:22:20 what's the spanish word for bear? 16:22:25 oso 16:22:30 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:37 are you serious? 16:22:43 as in "el oso es peligroso" -- the bear is dangerous 16:22:46 I'm portuguese and i find that weird 16:22:54 in portuguese, it's urso, no? 16:22:57 timor [~timor@port-92-195-109-97.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:22:58 yes 16:23:07 i've used urso before, too 16:23:16 when osodepeluche was taken as a screenname 16:23:16 edlinde: concentrate on what you write, after you come up with the intended solution. Probably best to write the solution in pseudo code and create your lisp program from there, concentrating on the actual code you're creating. 16:23:18 edlinde: "brackets", "braces", and "parentheses" and not synonymous 16:23:44 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:53 cmm: Usage depends on what part of the world you are in. 16:24:15 cmm: In New Zealand they call '(' and ')' brackets. 16:24:17 ehu: yeah I wrote the pseudo code down first and then bungled up the parenthesis 16:24:28 beach: even if one purports to speak programmery Enlish? 16:24:32 oh wow... i know this is OT, but I love waking up to 150+ OS updates 16:24:33 oh 16:25:24 I've always used "bracket" to describe all types of brackets 16:25:33 osoleve: this is also kind of disturbing, imo 16:26:03 cmm: Not when you're running a fork of gentoo, and you run every update script early sunday morning 16:26:10 ehu: I never really understood what the hell that pseudo code is supposed to be 16:26:14 *_6502_* remembers thinking python was pseudocode when first seeing some examples in a newsgroup 16:26:42 ehu: I am still getting a compilation error somehow 16:26:49 Hell, to me, Lisp is half-pseudocode 16:26:51 even after I fixed the car problem 16:26:54 osoleve: I get that you love to talk about how you run some fork of gentoo, yeah. not sure why you think it makes for an interesting topic, is all 16:27:28 cmm: I'm just trying to make conversation, not puff myself up 16:27:28 -!- alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:53 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-104-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:06 it's OK (to a point), I'm just being cranky 16:28:06 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-121-252.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:09 edlinde: go read 16:28:11 <_6502_> osoleve: of course python builds up on our school system... after beating kids until they understand that * has a precedence ove + it's something that somehow sticks as "natural" 16:28:16 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:28:45 edlinde: of course. 16:28:53 edlinde: there's not only a car problem. 16:28:53 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:01 ehu: ok 16:29:02 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:10 _6502_: What I meant by Lisp being half pseudo-code is (in my opinion as an absolute beginner) that I can essentially write the steps for the program, and then later define what I meant by thos esteps 16:29:22 -!- Electrifiedspam [~Electrifi@adsl-99-97-218-232.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:29:33 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-109-97.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:29:53 cmm: I don't take offense, don't worry. I realize Lisp-ers take Lisp seriously, and anything not somehow related belongs in another channel. I'm just new to IRC. 16:30:50 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 16:31:05 is there a way to clear error messages from a previous complication in Slime? 16:31:05 osoleve: I'd probably bet money that discussing lisp doesn't make up the majority of this channel's traffic 16:31:21 drdo: depends 16:31:47 cmm: And don't get me wrong, i'm not in here to waste anybody's time. Lisp is the most fun I've ever had programming, but I can't deny that a lot of the concepts are foreign to me. 16:31:54 but we're rather lenient on off-topic, depending on various circumstances 16:32:05 I do think that's a good thing 16:32:36 drdo: cmm's remark was appropriate, not harsh. My exclamation of surprise should have been directed to #sabayon, not #lisp 16:32:56 any ways to clear up the slime messages? 16:33:14 edlinde: What do you mean by "clear up"? 16:33:24 edlinde: doesn't it do that on recompilation? 16:33:49 beach: I got a whole bunch of error messages from a previous compilation in the slime buffer... is there a way to get rid of those 16:33:57 nah it seems to just keep adding to it 16:34:05 or should I not scroll up? 16:34:08 edlinde: don't look at the old ones. 16:34:29 ok so maybe I made the mistake of scrolling up and reading the errors 16:34:31 ok cool 16:34:33 thanks 16:35:26 edlinde: How about you go read about what you're trying to use instead of coming here and expecting to be spoon fed for free and even putting up an attitude when people can't read your mind? 16:35:41 xinming [~hyy@122.238.73.241] has joined #lisp 16:35:59 edlinde: Don't make the same mistake I did 16:36:34 osoleve: And what was that? 16:36:50 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-121-252.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:37:22 drdo: reading up will not help you spot missing braces... anyway I am reading through the error messages 16:37:22 beach: Assuming that the residents of #lisp were answer-machines, not teachers. 16:37:22 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:38 I see. 16:37:56 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.200] has joined #lisp 16:38:03 beach: I didn't realize at first asking a simple question would yield a link to the clhs instead of an answer. 16:38:18 edlinde: I think drdo was thinking more in line with Practical Common Lisp, Lisp in small pieces, etc. 16:38:23 People here are generally very helpful 16:38:33 alama [~alama@43.120.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:38:38 drdo: I know, that's what I'm saying. 16:38:54 It's a lot more useful to show people how to figure things out than to explain it to them. 16:38:58 ehu: I am getting there... one step at a time :) 16:39:04 michael` [~user@cpe-76-172-217-134.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:32 edlinde: drdo - if I understand him correctly - wants you to consider if you apply the right meaning to 'there' 16:42:22 I'm suggesting that it might be more productive to read some book about CL instead of hammering on that code you had until it compiles 16:43:00 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:43:07 -!- s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:43:31 drdo: and I have already done so...its a matter of getting used to the syntax 16:43:37 fixed the errors in the code now 16:44:18 clhs collect 16:44:19 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for collect. 16:44:26 edlinde: the syntax is quite minimal, i don't that's the issue really 16:44:52 edlinde: Show it again. 16:44:55 well, it does need some getting used to 16:45:01 beach: yep hang on 16:45:09 I know where I went wrong 16:45:33 I was stuck to the idea of calling a function like fn( a b c) or something instead of (fn a b c) :) 16:45:40 will paste in a sec 16:45:41 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:46:43 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:44 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.200] has left #lisp 16:47:02 I installed emacs from ubuntu's software center. Does anyone know where is the '.emacs' file located, so I can add my configurations for lisp? 16:47:06 vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 16:47:13 http://paste.lisp.org/display/116340 16:47:14 michael: ~/.emacs 16:47:24 beach: thanks for looking at it 16:47:27 michael`: your home directory, also, #emacs 16:47:41 edlinde: you can annotate your pastes. 16:47:47 edlinde: Never put whitespace before ')' or after '('. 16:47:48 http://www.geee.net/contact.htm 16:47:52 ok 16:47:53 edlinde: then we can see each version in a single webpage 16:48:11 i have (setq inferior-lisp-program "clisp") in my config... but when i do a M-x slime... it defaults to sbcl 16:48:11 ok cool 16:48:14 will check it out 16:48:15 edlinde: I'm missing a docstring to your function: what *should* it be returning? 16:48:19 would anyone mind checking a three-line function for me? 16:48:21 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 16:48:36 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:48:42 ehu: one sec 16:48:48 michael`: try using a full path 16:48:52 Write a function that takes two lists and returns t if the first is shorter, nil otherwise. It should not use any built-in function except cons, car, cdr and null. 16:48:55 osoleve: post it 16:48:56 edlinde: There is no point in starting an `if' after the default clause in a `cond' because `cond' takes an arbitrary number of clauses. 16:49:00 thats the requirement 16:49:00 http://paste.lisp.org/display/116339 16:49:04 k, thanks drdo 16:49:23 (read-w0rd-list) or whatever opens a file and should return a list of strings 16:49:32 beach: ehmm yeah I know .. I just didn't know how to do multiple things in the one cond clause without using a progn 16:49:34 I'm trying to select a single word from the list 16:50:02 coz I wanted to match a null in the first list l1 and then still call the recursive part to move on 16:50:09 osoleve: So you read the same file twice? 16:50:11 osoleve: and what's the issue? 16:50:13 beach: if that made sense :) 16:50:23 edlinde: If you only want to check the length of the lists, why do you ever need to do a `car'? Taking the `car' would inspect an *element* of the list, which is not needed, so wrong. 16:50:46 timor [~timor@port-92-195-89-190.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:50:47 drdo: After I get the function working, I plan on refactoring so (read-wrd-list) can be passed as an argument 16:51:16 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:51:17 osoleve: you should probably just pass the list as an argument to select-target-word 16:51:18 beach: hmm I thought I had to do a check on the car of the list to ensure that I have exhausted list l2 completely 16:51:22 osoleve: Maybe (let* ((word-list (read-word-list)) ..... ) 16:51:39 drdo: I just wanted to know if there was an issue, because I had no way to check it ATM 16:51:49 edlinde: No, that didn't make sense, because (cond (..) (t (if a b c))) is equivalent to (cond (..) (a b) (t c)) 16:51:49 now I end up with a non-empty list of 1s when list l1 is shorter.. I know I should be returning a 't' 16:52:06 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:52:13 edlinde: You don't check whether a list is empty by inspecting an element of it. 16:52:15 edlinde: a list has been exhausted, if you take its CDR and are getting NIL 16:52:16 osoleve: appart from reading the file twice, it should work 16:52:21 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:52:29 ehu: What? 16:52:44 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:52:45 ehu: Rather, if the list *is* NIL. 16:52:55 ok then I am not so sure how its done in lisp unfortunately 16:53:04 i see 16:53:15 the empty list is represented by NIL 16:53:17 so I could have said something like ... if (null l1 ) ? 16:53:30 sorry null l2 16:53:34 ok. I meant to say: you've used up the last element of the list, if its CDR is NIL. 16:53:37 edlinde: Yes, but without the space before ')' as I told you. 16:53:52 ok see your point now 16:54:36 beach: I am still not getting the cond vs the if I introduced there 16:54:47 edlinde: It has nothing to do with Lisp. You do the same in any language. No language requires you to inspect an element of the list (which may not be there) in order to find out whether the list is empty. 16:55:02 edlinde: Did you even read what I said about cond/if? 16:55:10 i'm sorry, i'm back 16:55:24 you said (cond (...) (a b) (t c)) 16:55:33 my dad was bugging me about staying hydrated, and questioning me about wine bottles he found in my room 16:55:34 now are 'a' and 'b' forms? 16:55:50 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:53 edlinde: I said (cond (...) (t (if a b c))) is equivalent to (cond (...) (a b) (t c)) 16:56:00 osoleve: I think you'd apologize less if you read and listened more. 16:56:24 Fade: I was apologizing for not being able to read and listen... 16:56:41 if you can't do those two things, this isn't going to work out. 16:56:41 edlinde: (cond (a x) (b y) (t z)) means (if a x (if b y z)) 16:56:48 -!- quantum [~nurlan@109.127.29.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:57:11 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:57:25 beach: yep I think I get what you mean now 16:57:53 osoleve: regarding your function: why are you calling the read-word-list function twice? 16:57:56 Fade: So, IRC isn't for people who occasionally get distracted by outside influences? My mistake, in the future I'll try to remember to quit next time someone in real life wants to talk to me. 16:57:59 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-79-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:01 does it return the same elements each time? 16:58:14 that's not what I said. 16:58:17 osoleve: people who get distracted don't say that. 16:58:27 osoleve: they just get distracted and return later 16:58:39 What is going on in this channel? 16:58:41 ehu: Because I hadn't yet worked out how to collect read-word-list into a list to opass, working on it 16:58:53 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@213-33-4-96.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:59:01 drdo: I'm really not entirely sure. 16:59:14 ehu: Well, I was raised that if you ask a question but aren't able to heed the response, you apologize and explain yourself. 16:59:15 beach: I am wondering now that I have this list of 1's to indicate that l1 is the shorter one... I read somewhere that a non-empty list in Lisp is considered to be true 16:59:34 but it's starting to remind me of a CS101 lecture theatre in the first ten minutes of the lecture on day 1. 16:59:47 edlinde: everything that is not NIL is true 16:59:55 beach: so should I make this a helper function and call it another one to check if it returns a non-empty list or nil? 17:00:04 ok 17:00:18 osoleve: this channel tries, among other things, to be friendly to people who "never leave". obviously in real life they do leave, and then come back and try to read the scrollback 17:00:23 quantum [~nurlan@109.127.28.231] has joined #lisp 17:00:24 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:00:25 have to redo this now 17:00:26 cheers 17:00:28 thanks for the help 17:00:32 Efthymios [~efthymios@c-98-207-146-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:38 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-89-190.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:01:01 cmm: I wasn't asking for a rehash though, just apologizing for not responding to the people who took the time to answer me. 17:01:16 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-78-43.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:01:47 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:01:54 Electrifiedspam [~Electrifi@adsl-99-97-218-232.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:07 krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:02:38 osoleve: politeness is a virtue. I commend you for that. irc, however, is a lossy and latent system. 17:03:12 s0ng0ku [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:17 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:03:40 osoleve: if you don't have a reason to believe that someone is actually glued to the screen waiting for your answer, then there's nothing to apologise for if you get afk for some time 17:03:48 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-78-43.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:04 -!- krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:32 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:04:35 an the goal in any good irc channel, like #lisp, is generally to maximise signal and minimise noise. 17:04:37 not that the "glued to the screen waiting" scenario is impossible, but it's usually easy to tell :) 17:05:04 Fade: you guys are producing quite some noise :P 17:05:10 edlinde: Perhaps, but that's still the wrong way of doing it. Think of it as a proof by induction. Case 1: l2 is empty. Then l1 is not shorter than l2, so you can return nil. Case 2: l2 is not empty. Case 2a: l1 is empty, then l1 is shorter than l2 and you can answer t. Case 2b: l1 is not empty, so both lists contain some elements. Then l1 is shorter than l2 if and only if the rest of l1 is shorter than the rest of l2. 17:05:18 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@212-183-35-108.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:05:22 no foolin' 17:05:27 Gotcha. Dang, I joined IRC to help learn Lisp, and instead am being school on IRC ettiquette. Ah well, you have ton start somewhere. :) 17:05:27 beach: if you don't mind - http://paste.lisp.org/display/116340 17:05:32 ah sorry 17:05:38 reading your message now beach 17:06:14 #lisp is now a programming school 17:06:31 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 17:06:32 I am just not sure of line 3 17:06:51 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 17:06:55 Okay, I'm probably missing something obvious but why is alexandria:iota called that? 17:06:57 drdo: with an attitude! 17:07:09 gigamonkey: tradition? 17:07:16 edlinde: You have the right idea, but why (cons '1 ...)? Just say t. 17:07:17 adeht: right, but what tradition? 17:07:25 Christian tradition, maybe? 17:07:34 is it an acronym? or a pun I'm missing? 17:07:36 beach: well I was kinda following the prof's instructions 17:07:42 didn't know why to use a cons 17:07:43 drdo: Don't get me wrong, I didn't come to ask "how do I do this..." quite as much as I came to ask "What did I do wrong here?" 17:07:47 gigamonkey: it's a greek letter 17:07:50 gigamonkey: it's a greek letter, I believe 17:08:05 beach: would returning just a t be ok? or do I have to do an AND? 17:08:08 well I think it would 17:08:10 used to express just this function somewhere in math 17:08:11 on second though 17:08:16 *thought 17:08:18 Okay, getting close. As a greek letter does it have some significance that makes a good name for that function? 17:08:27 cmm: ah. 17:08:46 now a good question would be "why is alexandria:curry called that?" 17:08:55 edlinde: Why an `and'? 17:09:00 gigamonkey: APL had a iota operator 17:09:00 APL, looks like. 17:09:06 *gigamonkey* wins! 17:09:31 beach: nope my bad... just a t suffices 17:09:41 Also used in Go (the language) it looks like. 17:09:58 and some SRFI 17:09:58 edlinde: have you read through either PCL or Gentle? 17:10:11 tradition, in short :) 17:10:20 My bet would be that Guy Steele brough it into Lisp from APL. 17:10:22 Fade: yeah read gentle and PCL upto chap 9 i think 17:10:34 gigamonkey: are you the author of PCL by any chance? 17:10:42 edlinde: yup. 17:10:43 most of your questions are better asked of the repl. 17:10:44 beach: thanks for the help 17:10:52 gigamonkey: good book 17:10:53 :) 17:10:57 Thanks! 17:10:58 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:11:04 gigamonkey: Really? GREAT book, it;s what got me hooked on Lisp. 17:11:22 Awesome. 17:11:23 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:11:24 That was the plan. 17:11:45 The gateway book, getting people in a downward spiral of addiction! 17:11:53 :) 17:12:31 Megahelth - Addicted to Lisp 17:13:03 -!- quantum [~nurlan@109.127.28.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:13:17 if drcode ever decides to write another Lisp book, you should consider a collaboration! I can imagine your pedantic, pragmatic style complementing his peurile nature. 17:13:35 Kind of like "Why's" meets K&R 17:13:48 ah another thing... is there any sample code that shows a good way of formatting and commenting your code? 17:14:06 edlinde: do you use emacs? 17:14:13 osoleve: yes 17:14:23 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:28 edlinde: uh, you've said you've read PCL up to chapter 9, didn't you? and never noticed the examples? 17:14:33 did youm know tab automagically indents the current line of code to the correct level? 17:14:35 edlinde: whatever emacs does is pretty much how everyone does it 17:14:56 modulo loop 17:15:03 yeah the indentation is fine 17:15:10 edlinde: to insert a comment you start by pressing M-; 17:15:16 quantum [~nurlan@109.127.29.192] has joined #lisp 17:15:18 but I remember reading in PCL that there was some rules of how to comment your code 17:15:22 oh 17:15:26 ;;;; Is for headers 17:15:29 yeah 17:15:32 ;;; Is for long blocks before functions 17:15:44 ;; is for in-function 17:15:48 the first thing I do before reading some new code is C-x h C-M-\ 17:15:48 and ; is end of line 17:15:49 I would love to see a well commented piece of code ... thats all :) 17:16:07 adeht: ok 17:16:35 edlinde: There's some contention, though, I believe, between the use of long comments to describe a function versus a well-written docstring 17:17:11 edlinde: I was surprised by the amount of comments in psilord's new library, cl-mw: http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~psilord/lisp-public/cl-mw.html 17:17:20 edlinde: but personally I prefer mostly comment-less code 17:17:36 (comment-less for the good reasons, of course) 17:17:43 adeht: I like to have just basic comments atleast at the top of each function you know 17:17:51 -!- zvrba [~zvrba@anakin.ifi.uio.no] has left #lisp 17:18:17 edlinde: I'm with adeht. I used to comment EVERYTHING (I started out as a Perl hacker) until a Lisp-er pointed out that most Lisp is self-documenting, and docstrings are much cleaner than semicolons 17:18:22 edlinde: then you should ask yourself wether they shouldn't be put in a docstring 17:18:41 To be honest I don't know what a docstring is 17:18:42 :) 17:18:43 -!- benny [~benny@i577A33EF.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:18:47 ah 17:18:50 haven't come across it 17:18:56 I like documentation describing the big picture and for the code to be readable and have good names 17:19:14 well, when you write a function, you have (foo ( ) 17:19:18 then the body 17:19:41 well, make the first line of the body a "-delimited string", and it'll be accessible from the REPL 17:19:52 edlinde: it's just a string you put after the function's lambda-list (or declarations).. (defun fib (n) "Return the Nth integer in the Fibonacci sequence." ...) 17:20:04 ah I see 17:20:08 ok simple enough 17:20:20 edlinde: you can then query the docstring by doing (documentation 'fib 'function) 17:20:27 while we're on the topic, what's the convention for multi-line docstrings? 17:20:33 edlinde: usually (describe 'fib) would also show it 17:20:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:20:43 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:03 osoleve: tl;dr version in under 80 chars, period, newline, rest 17:22:23 adeht: it didn't show up in (describe.. 17:22:32 okay, thanks 17:22:36 osoleve: don't indent the lines after the first.. this screws up their appearance 17:22:44 right, i read that 17:22:46 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 17:22:57 i hate how it looks, but whatever 17:23:19 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-150.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 17:24:11 edlinde: what implementation are you using? 17:24:11 -!- bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:27 adeht: Clozure and Slime 17:24:39 edlinde: ah. I don't know about ccl 17:24:44 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:24:48 ok no problem 17:25:01 :( does anyone have a spare HDMI cable? 17:25:15 i want to have the CLHS on my TV while i work 17:25:21 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 17:25:43 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:25:52 edlinde: may want to try (describe #'fib) btw 17:25:58 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.58.193] has joined #lisp 17:26:02 *syntard_* hands the cable 17:26:03 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:26:13 *osoleve* hugs syntard_ 17:26:38 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:26:43 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 17:26:52 *drdo* would just like a screen bigger than 13" :( 17:27:48 drdo: come work at my place. I have two 15.6", and a 32" with HDMI input 17:27:56 we could work in tandem! 17:28:41 adeht: that worked thanks 17:29:48 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-122-27.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:06 -!- s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:30:24 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 17:30:29 Modius [~Modius@70.123.158.125] has joined #lisp 17:31:30 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:31:31 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-165-176.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:31:54 http://norvig.com/luv-slides.ps <- This is an excellent tutorial on Lisp style.. read it over and over 17:32:12 "someone" should fix LOOP indentation on emacs 17:32:40 maybe ITERATE instead of LOOP and it solves itself, eh? 17:32:55 drdo: slime-indentation has some loop-aware rules if you want them 17:33:32 schmrkc: I do usually ITERATE instead of LOOP, but i'm writing a project where i am restricted to ANSI CL 17:33:54 drdo: iterate is written in ansi cl, no? ;) 17:34:00 schmrkc: I expected that reply 17:34:10 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:38 and yes, i could just implement a quick iterate like i did with split, but it's not worth the effort considering the small size of this project 17:35:10 :( 17:35:19 I guess you must fix indentation then :) 17:35:25 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@212-183-35-108.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:35:42 adeht: Ohloh indicates Lisp has (on average) 17% comments, while Java is expected to have 30%+ (out of all lines in a file) 17:36:16 adeht: :-) And the comment to go with it is "the more the better as it suggests easier maintenance" 17:37:23 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 17:37:39 Lots of comments suggests fucked up code to me 17:37:41 I try to avoid these statistics abusing frauds 17:37:52 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-88-174.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 17:38:18 what about comment maintenance? 17:38:29 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-88-174.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:33 syntard_: write meta-comments! 17:38:50 "The comment below is wrong" 17:38:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:38:56 "The comment above is correct." 17:39:08 nice 17:39:22 projects will start getting comment patches 17:39:48 "### Is comment below still correct, since we now implement feature XYZ?" 17:40:38 ehu: one very easy rule to remember is that a mean average contains very little information.. I always look for the sample size and standard deviation 17:41:21 of course, they are rarely given along 17:41:53 I think we should start doing this: (+ 3 4) ; Adds 3 to 4, resulting in 7 17:42:29 ; adds 3 to 4, resulting in a value somewhere between 6 and 8. 17:42:35 drdo: should help getting the ratios up. 17:43:03 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:23 -!- prip [~foo@host243-124-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:43:52 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 17:46:16 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:46:17 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:48:35 <_6502_> is there a way to get the content of a structure as write shows it ? i mean #S(P2D :x 10 :y 20) ... i would like to get that list 17:49:04 it's not a list 17:49:19 <_6502_> ok... what it looks like a list (the part after #S) 17:49:25 I remember reading about PG complaining that he couldn't do that 17:49:31 taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD95B80.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:48 <_6502_> ok... my defstructs are generated, so i can generate a function that will do that... i just wanted to know if such a function was already available in CL 17:50:59 6502: you can use standard-classes instead 17:51:26 6502: then you can use the MOP to get the list of slot names and slot-value for values 17:51:27 <_6502_> and then using MOP ? 17:51:39 You /could/ do a with-output-to-string, generate "#S(P2D :x 10 :y 20)", then with-input-from-string, skip the #S, and READ... 17:51:44 -!- pepone [~pepone@83.37.195.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:45 :X 17:51:49 outch 17:51:59 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:52:03 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52:10 <_6502_> nyef: hehehehe... no kidding i've been thinking (just for about a usec) to do that :-D 17:52:12 nyef: :print-function not-so-easy 17:52:17 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:52:32 Yeah, yeah. 17:52:35 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:53:16 pepone [~pepone@83.37.195.56] has joined #lisp 17:53:26 also, some objects don't print readably 17:53:47 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:54:27 How can I check that a compiler macro is being used in SBCL? I have two functions that are near-identical except for one form that should be macroexpanded in the one case into they form of the other. Yet one runs at half the speed as the other. 17:54:37 <_6502_> actually i need to convert that to json... and the values are already only "ususal" stuff (strings, numbers, vectors/lists) 17:54:57 prip [~foo@host130-134-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:55:04 LiamH: you can add a (print 'hi) in the compiler-macro :) 17:55:28 adeht: I suppose... doesn't really tell me what the compiler is seeing though. 17:55:33 *_6502_* is going to extend his defobject macro 17:55:34 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:56:17 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:57:16 -!- pepone [~pepone@83.37.195.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:37 pepone [~pepone@83.37.195.56] has joined #lisp 17:57:51 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 17:58:31 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD95B80.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4-dev] 17:58:46 Well when I print out the form that's expanding, it shows that it is expanding correctly... mystifying. 17:59:08 taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD95B80.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:20 What is the decompiler function in CL? 17:59:25 disassemble 17:59:34 ah, that's right, thanks 18:00:28 LiamH: if you compile at high speed settings, the compoiler notes should help you understand what's going on. 18:00:48 *Xach* wonders if that's an irish compiler 18:01:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:02:49 The only difference in the compiled forms is that RDX and RBX change places. Sadly, I have no idea what that means. 18:03:10 registers ? 18:03:21 on 64 bit architecture ? 18:03:26 wbooze: Yeah, x86-64 registers. 18:03:26 yes 18:03:30 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-194-233.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:12 pkhuong_: I have (speed 3) and I get 0 notes. 18:04:32 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 18:04:37 then change that and look what happens 18:04:48 ah wait, apparently I didn't have the speed setting I thought 18:04:49 vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 18:05:12 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:35 -!- alama [~alama@43.120.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 18:05:50 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:06:50 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:06:51 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-103-145.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:07:07 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-65-74.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:07:59 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:08:12 -!- pepone [~pepone@83.37.195.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:26 Ok #lisp. So I am yet again looking at this webdevelopment thing, trying to grok web technology. So I'm looking at weblocks. Now what I figured is that I need to make a nice webUI for my little lisp based game here so why not weblocks, eh? Now question is how do I get lisp+weblocks to display animations, react to mouse clicks, move sprites around, etc? 18:08:34 on the webpage like dem other fancy webgames 18:08:40 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:08:41 While the notes indicate inefficiencies, they are identical in both cases, except that the message repeats the form as written, without the compiler macro expanded. 18:08:56 or rather what documentation should I look into to learn this. 18:08:58 schmrkc: Would love to know as well, i found the weblocks documentation quite lacking 18:09:13 drdo: My knowledge of webtechnology is completely lacking. 18:09:19 schmrkc: same here 18:09:38 (: 18:09:44 But weblocks abstracts that, or at least that's the goal i think 18:09:49 weblocks is the best documented of the CL options. :p 18:09:54 (: 18:10:05 I even saw a screencast 18:10:14 of someone implementing a little blog using weblock 18:10:17 weblocks 18:10:21 Nice. 18:10:26 I still don't understand it well 18:10:29 blog is not quite what I want. I want action paced game. 18:10:39 with nice keyboard control etc. 18:10:53 Thing is, i didn't even get to understand the basic architecture of a weblocks application 18:11:03 Maybe i'm just dumb 18:11:16 drdo: sorry that you're dumb :( 18:11:40 At one point i just said screw it and used hunchentoot and parenscript 18:12:08 sounds great. 18:12:21 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 18:12:25 I will look into that. 18:12:30 the weblocks mailing list is active. 18:12:42 Problem with that is that you need to understand the web stuff 18:12:48 oh 18:13:13 And will get bombarded by fancy meaningless jargon all day every day 18:13:28 :) 18:13:37 I just want sprites moving around. that's all. 18:13:42 and a nice soundtrack. 18:13:57 schmrkc: I hear there's this new thing in HTML5 18:14:01 A canvas object 18:14:08 Where you can just draw to your heart's content 18:14:14 ok 18:14:29 I have seen webgames for years and years. can' be THAT new :) 18:14:34 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 18:14:35 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:15:24 but this looks great. thanks drdo . I'll look into it. 18:15:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:15:55 schmrkc: web games were usually in flash i think 18:16:18 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050066175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:16:21 cools 18:16:25 how do I make flash out of lisp? 18:16:34 Don't, it's gay and evil 18:17:14 O.o 18:17:50 Use parenscript to write javascript for you and use that canvas thing 18:17:56 schmrkc: 3b-swf is one way. 18:18:13 drdo: Then I would have to learn javascript and html5. that's two things instead of just one. 18:18:31 Xach: cools. I'll look that up. 18:19:26 -!- phrixos [~miar1@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:19:31 Don't go down that road, son 18:20:06 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:30 drdo: Go away. 18:20:37 phrixos [~miar1@194.66.0.176] has joined #lisp 18:21:14 *_6502_* feels a STRONG temptation of just going for CT::xxx 18:21:17 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:21:53 <_6502_> manually exporting all accessors is a killer 18:22:32 _6502_: why would you do that? 18:22:50 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:23:01 are they really all an essential part of your public interface? 18:23:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:23:38 _6502_: exporting is boring, but it happens once. conversely, writing :: get pretty annoying very soon 18:24:04 <_6502_> pkhuong_: i've to publish some of the structures do that a web interface can manage them... 18:24:05 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:18 <_6502_> do that=so that 18:24:56 besides, one doesn't export accessors, one exports symbols that name generic functions. my protocol.lisp often includes both defpackage and defgeneric forms, and slime has a single keystroke to export symbols from packages .... 18:24:57 <_6502_> and there is no wildcard export :-( 18:25:42 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:26:10 _6502_: see M-x slime-export-class 18:26:19 it will export all accessors 18:26:21 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 18:26:30 ewwww 18:26:43 *drewc* makes a face like he's sucking on a lemon 18:27:08 (with writing them to the defpackage form) 18:27:32 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 18:28:22 <_6502_> that from *inferior-lisp* window ? .. i don't have it in my .lisp buffer 18:28:32 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:28:34 drewc: more like a lime. a lemon would be ESC M-: (slime-export-class) 18:28:58 _6502_: i can't make sense out of your question 18:29:02 -!- Electrifiedspam [~Electrifi@adsl-99-97-218-232.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:09 but i suppose it's still better than doing it by hand 18:29:45 <_6502_> stassats: M-x slime- cannot complete to export... may be i've an old slime 18:29:47 stassats: i believe he might have an archaic version of slime, so that command doesn't exist in his .lisp (lisp-mode) buffers 18:30:09 _6502_: you need slime-package-fu contrib (included in slime-fancy) 18:30:35 and slime HEAD or near 18:30:40 unicode_ [~user@95.214.12.24] has joined #lisp 18:30:51 <_6502_> ok... i will update 18:31:09 <_6502_> and i'll also think about avoiding a jillion exports 18:31:12 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:33:07 <_6502_> (e.g. having a generic accessor that builds the name, interns it, does the symbol lookup .... hahahahahaha) 18:33:41 -!- moah [~gnu@188.109.167.0] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:33:53 *_6502_* hates C++ "private:" stuff too... he never found that of ANY use except annoy 18:34:23 <_6502_> shower time... thanx again for tolerating me around :-) 18:34:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:35:04 -!- _6502_ [4e0ceda4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.237.164] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:37:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:38:00 -!- unicode_ [~user@95.214.12.24] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:40:21 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 18:40:50 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:38 silenius [~silenus@rrcs-64-183-24-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:06 logia_th [~nmo@7.Red-81-44-12.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:50 -!- s0ng0ku [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:49:55 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:50:20 hi guys, just trying to solve this macros assignment problem... I have a solution but was wondering if someone could have a quick look at it to see if its ok and if it breaks in some cases... I have put the original question, my macros and output in the paste. http://paste.lisp.org/display/116344 18:50:25 thanks in advance! :) 18:50:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:50:55 If there is a better more elegant way then please let me know too 18:51:43 why is that a macro!? 18:51:59 pkhuong_: because the prof. is lazy? 18:52:02 pkhuong_: its an assignment for uni 18:52:19 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:52:19 edlinde: a rubbish assignment 18:52:21 gigamonkey: hi ... nah its just for us to practise how to get a macros right 18:52:29 trigen- [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 18:52:31 the most important thing in learning about macros is when not to use them 18:52:32 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:52:32 adeht: why? 18:53:10 ok I don't think he meant it as a proper macros 18:53:24 edlinde: because there's no point to use macros for that kind of end 18:53:25 you seemed to not understand basic things about lisp earlier this day, and now you're onto macros 18:53:27 but does my macros look ok? or are there flaws in it? 18:53:34 this is my first one.. so I am not so sure 18:53:38 edlinde: (check t) 18:53:40 aren't you a bit too fast in your learning? 18:53:44 edlinde: I don't know how that would be graded, but a nice way to implement macros is to push as much as possible of the logic into an auxiliary function. 18:54:16 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-150.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:19 stassats: ok because I said (fn (a b c)) instead of (fn a b c) .. I don't know any lisp? 18:54:46 edlinde: see Xach's point.. also as a style point, use cond instead of if+progn 18:54:50 pkhuong_: ah ok like a labels you mean? But even in something as simple as this? 18:54:51 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 18:54:53 -!- trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:55:04 edlinde: if it was me, since this can easily be implemented with a function, I'd write a function to do it. 18:55:05 edlinde: that's the most basic thing 18:55:17 Then to satisfy the assignment I'd write CHECK as a macro that expands into a call to the function. 18:55:38 edlinde: i don't say it's bad to not understand something, but it's better to get good at basics first and then learn more advanced stuff 18:55:56 stassats: ofcourse ... I just made a typo .. cmon 18:56:07 five times? 18:56:22 stassats: I was reading up on the stuff and this was the first time I actually wrote my own function 18:56:31 clhs let* 18:56:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_let_l.htm 18:56:45 edlinde: again, there is nothing wrong with that 18:56:51 vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 18:56:59 gigamonkey: I know what you mean I kind of followed your PCL advise and wrote a function first and converted that to a macro 18:57:27 just that you shouldn't learn too much in one go, you won't remember anything afterwards 18:57:28 edlinde: no, in this case don't convert it. Just expand into a call to it. 18:57:39 (defmacro check (n) `(checkfn ,n)) 18:57:46 edlinde: the point is that macros are mostly there to help with the syntax, so generally it's a good idea to try to write stuff using functions and only add a thin layer (a small macro) that helps with the syntax 18:57:47 gigamonkey: yeah I don't think our prof would like that :) 18:58:26 edlinde: come on, have a spine. 18:58:41 If they give you silly problems, you give them silly answers. 18:58:44 but I see what you guys are saying... but I think the idea here is just to write a macros.. pointless as it may seem 18:58:48 I'll leave writing CHECKFN to you. 18:58:51 gigamonkey: yeah :) 18:59:02 that I already done 18:59:09 edlinde: xach's point stands either way. 18:59:41 okay, so if i have a function whose body form is a (loop which creates an arraym does loop return the final array? 18:59:58 but what I wanted to know is that I was trying to follow PCL's macro writing methodology and tried to plug the leaks etc... am wondering if I got it right? 19:00:15 osoleve: no, but you can use (loop ... finally (return array)) 19:00:26 osoleve: or sometimes the return clause 19:00:36 pkhuong_: are you saying I use cond? 19:00:40 adeht: thanks, time to look into that 19:00:44 or what is the point? I missed it sorry 19:01:39 edlinde: try your macro on Xach's suggested test case. 19:02:22 hmm it crashed on (checkm t) 19:02:35 right, = works only on numbers 19:02:41 yep 19:02:56 so should I not be using the = to check if I find 42? 19:03:15 ok I think I will convert this to a cond 19:03:20 clhs eql 19:03:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_eql.htm 19:03:21 I get it now I think :) 19:03:27 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 19:04:19 edlinde: you also really don't need a gensym the way you're writing it. 19:05:20 hmm so maybe you can tell me when I need a gensym? 19:05:21 :) 19:05:37 I found this gensym concept a bit tricky 19:05:57 I thought if someone .. in my case passed in "var-eval" as a variable it would crash my code yeah? 19:06:04 gigamonkey: why not? 19:06:08 and gensym protects me from that? 19:06:27 edlinde: Why would it crash your code? 19:06:56 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:07:07 adeht: (defmacro check (n) `(let ((v ,n)) ...)) 19:07:13 -!- syntard [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:07:25 there's no possibility of name collision 19:07:51 ok name collision is what I was looking for schmrkc 19:07:52 gigamonkey: true, but I would consider such code fragile 19:08:10 adeht: fragile how? 19:08:19 adeht: so are you saying its good to introduce gensym all the time? 19:09:11 edlinde: It could be a problem if you later started using that there other variable. But you don't. so is ok, yeah. 19:09:35 hm so it seems like the majority of people here think that the gensym is an overkill in this case 19:09:40 so maybe I should get rid of it? 19:09:49 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-136-51-90.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:09:51 pkhuong: say I wanted to allow the user to pass in the print-form 19:09:57 I think the important thing is that you understand why you should keep it or get rid of it. 19:10:03 pkhuong: or the 42 19:10:06 ok 19:10:29 edlinde: Maybe this is what your prof wants http://paste.lisp.org/display/116344#1 19:10:44 edlinde: yes, I would prefer to use a gensym in this case 19:10:53 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442446.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:12:23 ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has joined #lisp 19:12:29 gigamonkey: ok I didn't get the part where you checked if n is constant? 19:12:30 gigamonkey: that's bad 19:12:37 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.57.217] has joined #lisp 19:12:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.155.206] has quit [Client Quit] 19:13:04 gigamonkey: the first cond clause doesn't need the constantp, the second one is faulty in that (defconstant forty-two 42) (check forty-two) wouldn't pass 19:13:22 adeht: fair enough. 19:13:23 gigamonkey: (where it potentially could) 19:13:58 so if I changed my oringal paste with the gensym and cond instead of if.. would that work well enough? 19:14:12 gigamonkey: but actually I think there's no way to make (check forty-two) be optimized 19:14:15 adeht: gigamonkey : or do you guys think it would have some problems? 19:14:35 adeht: seems to me that it is. 19:14:48 edlinde: Personally I'd just hand in your original solution. 19:15:06 gigamonkey: how? 19:15:13 schmrkc: but I would need to fix the case where if fails for (check t) 19:15:16 adeht: try it. Works in SBCL. 19:15:20 edlinde: Why? 19:15:27 gigamonkey: does it print forty-two? 19:15:28 maybe cond will get around it because of its (t ... catchall phrase) 19:15:38 gigamonkey: er, print "This is the answer1"? 19:15:41 edlinde: so add a numberp or someshittery. 19:15:47 adeht: Ah, no. Good point. 19:16:05 schmrkc: it doesn't work when I say (check t) 19:16:20 schmrkc: ok will think about it... but you don't like cond? 19:16:23 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:16:32 edlinde: So (and (numberp ...) (= ...) ...) 19:16:50 schmrkc: what the heck? just use EQL. 19:17:02 edlinde: I like your original solution. Judging by the actual question asked by your prof I think your solution will do JUST FINE. 19:17:13 ok 19:17:18 schmrkc's solution makes sense if you want say 42.0 to also print 19:17:18 I still think you should turn in a macro that expands to a call to a function. 19:17:34 adeht: yeah, depends on the spec. 19:17:34 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 19:17:40 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:17:41 arghl 19:17:58 There will never be a case where anyone passes anything but an integer to this thing. 19:18:10 original is great. go go go 19:18:14 now next question? :) 19:18:18 :) 19:18:25 gigamonkey: how come? 42.0 can always be represented exactly 19:18:39 edlinde: how long is this course? and how many assignments? 19:18:50 gigamonkey: oh you mean the problem's spec 19:18:52 adeht: I mean the spec of the homework problem. 19:19:06 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:19:14 schmrkc: funny enough this is just a part of a 8-9 week course where we do Erlang, Lisp and Haskell 19:19:22 yum erlang. 19:19:22 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:19:27 oh noes haskell. 19:19:28 so Lisp I have really just had 2 lectures 19:19:32 in modern curriculum you just get points for participation, answer is not important as long as you give one 19:19:41 adeht: okay, I'm sure this has been discussed to death but I can't remember the answer 19:19:53 syntard_: same in modern engineering. as long as everyone feels good in the end. 19:19:53 syntard_: I think "this is a stupid thing to write a macro for 19:19:59 syntard_: " should give extra points. 19:20:04 Is there some good way, having determined that forty-two is constantp to test whether it's value is 42? 19:20:29 gigamonkey: no.. once I thought (eval foo) should work, but it doesn't have to 19:20:33 Right. 19:20:47 gigamonkey: the compiler can know that forty-two is a constant, but it may not know its value at the moment 19:20:59 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:21:23 Well, you can specify that only literal integers are allowed for proper detection to happen... 19:22:11 When a problem is too hard, use one of these magical words: "undefined", "unsupported", etc. 19:22:18 so I wonder if implementations can document under what conditions the value is known, perhaps even introduce their own constant-and-evaluable-p 19:22:26 there is so much more to learn with Lisp :) 19:22:41 but thanks guys... the discussion helped understand the macro code better 19:23:08 edlinde: Yes. lisp is super. You should stick with it after the course. 19:23:49 schmrkc: I have a research group that is heavy on common lisp, so yeah I would love to do stuff for them in lisp 19:24:19 most students write code in Java, Python etc and apparently there is a way to call these as "foreign functions" in the lisp implementation 19:24:39 so yeah writing them in pure lisp would be a step up for sure 19:24:53 though many students don't like to learn common lisp now 19:24:59 they prefer haskell or Erlang 19:25:05 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:25:41 ya makes sense. erlang is super sweet and has the syntax near godlyness. 19:25:59 That's weird. Isn't Haskell even harder to use properly than Common Lisp if you have no previous experience in either language?... 19:26:28 Hexstream: I have done ML in the past.. so to me Haskell is more of an extension to it 19:26:38 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:26:47 Hey folks. I'm doing some work with timers (using trivial-timers, a thin wrapper on sb-timer and bordeaux-threads). I got a warning that a timer failed to interrupt a thread. Is there any way to find out why? 19:26:48 Especially since you don't have the imperative escape hatch in Haskell. 19:26:48 though I still have to learn about Haskell's monads, type classes etc 19:26:48 extension - degeneration. 19:27:15 Hexstream: yeah I know... but I don't mind the pure functional solution either 19:27:21 redline6561: don't interrupt threads 19:27:50 ok back to some more work 19:28:05 fe[nl]ix: *sigh*. right. 19:29:42 redline6561: interrupt-thread is, at best, only an unsafe debugging mechanism 19:29:45 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@239-9-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:30:12 fe[nl]ix: I'd like to hear more, for refresh 19:30:45 fe[nl]ix: That's good to know. Goes back to reading http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Timers.html 19:30:49 tama [~tama@ip65-46-142-190.z142-46-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:54 *redline6561* goes back to reading http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Timers.html 19:31:44 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-79-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:32 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:33:40 If I write (sb-ext:make-timer (lambda () ...) :thread t) am I to take it a thread will be instantiated *when* the lambda is executed and killed when execution is finished? 19:34:14 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 19:34:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:34:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.58.193] has joined #lisp 19:35:12 redline6561: just curious, doesn't this create non-portable code? 19:35:26 -!- michael` [~user@cpe-76-172-217-134.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:35:33 syntard_: Yes, though ultimately I'll be using the trivial-timers library to make it portable. 19:35:57 syntard_: Though I doubt that library has seen much use. Bugs may be lurking. :( 19:36:12 ... "Create a timer object that's when scheduled runs FUNCTION."? Someone's not up to the usual standards of erudition for SBCL docstrings... 19:36:23 :D 19:36:26 nyef: It had occurred to me. :P 19:36:45 syntard_: So actually (trivial-timers:make-timer (lambda () ...) :thread t) etc... 19:36:47 "If THREAD is T then a new thread is created each timer FUNCTION is run."? 19:37:09 Hahaha. 19:37:11 redline6561: I heard one good thing about zeromq, would it apply here? 19:37:42 syntard_: I need to schedule methods to be called at a particular time. I may be wrong but I don't think zeromq helps with that. 19:38:20 *syntard_* dreams about sending messages into the future over tcp 19:38:23 Though if there is a better way I'm happy for you venerable lispers to let me know... 19:38:50 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.24.190] has joined #lisp 19:38:59 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:39:09 me too, please, venerable lispers 19:39:19 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 19:40:43 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-165-135.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 19:43:22 fragione [~fragione@bzq-79-179-245-24.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:38 MeCKaM [MiRC@120.28.93.85] has joined #lisp 19:44:22 Bug for make-timer docstring filed. 19:45:07 -!- code22 [MiRC@180.191.42.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46:16 nyef: Thanks. 19:46:50 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:47:01 nyef: Next time I'll do it. Your time is better spent elsewhere (*cough* W32 threads, ARM, IR1 magic, etc *cough*) ;) 19:47:13 redline6561: one of the packages that goes by the name 'clon' is a "task scheduler library much like cron for lisp that is implemented as a shallow layer on top of SBCL timers." 19:47:14 dreamcode [~Wistful@79.114.205.181] has joined #lisp 19:47:14 -!- dreamcode [~Wistful@79.114.205.181] has quit [Changing host] 19:47:14 dreamcode [~Wistful@unaffiliated/wistful] has joined #lisp 19:47:16 you might want to havea look 19:47:25 minion: clon? 19:47:26 clon: There are three packages by the name of "CLON": Clon Clon is a task scheduler library much like cron for lisp that is implemented as a shallow layer on top of SBCL timers. http://www.cliki.net/clon 19:47:27 drewc: I'd missed that. Thanks. 19:47:32 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.24.190] has left #lisp 19:47:43 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:47:55 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 19:48:03 Hmm... and how does QL handle this I wonder... 19:48:08 michael` [~user@cpe-76-172-217-134.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:48:10 Does anyone know of a mesh library in cl? 19:48:15 clon is dto's clon. 19:48:21 not mega1's clon. 19:48:25 nor dv's clon. 19:48:33 dv's will be cl-clon. 19:48:44 hmm, looks like I missed it this round. 19:48:56 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:48:59 And gabor's will become... 19:49:06 Xach: Oh. Is the new update live? 19:49:09 Not yet. 19:49:16 Xach: K. 19:49:17 has the jury decided this on the trademark issue? 19:49:26 is dto first? 19:49:40 mega1: He was the first I knew about. I think your clon was actually first. 19:49:46 mega1: no, yours is 19:49:52 phew 19:49:57 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.24.190] has joined #lisp 19:50:08 bad dto, worse dv 19:50:21 never again 19:51:05 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:31 Xach: clbuild trash equivalent? 19:52:30 What does clbuild trash do? 19:53:51 Xach: Is there any plans for anything like "clbuild make-project" for the quicklisp? 19:54:12 Xach: It's a meaner version of clbuild clean IIRC. Delete the directory, remove the system link. 19:54:18 schmrkc: not just plans, it's already done. 19:54:36 Xach: oh cools. I was looking at the quicklisp site but couldn't find anything related to it. 19:54:36 schmrkc: it is called "quickproject" and it's in quicklisp and can be used without it too. 19:54:46 schmrkc: What did clbuild make-project do? 19:54:47 *schmrkc* might have bad eyesight. 19:54:54 s/did/does/ 19:55:05 schmrkc: it's not part of quicklisp, it's just a hopefully-useful library. 19:55:12 redline6561: pretty much create a subdir in source/ and set up package.lisp the asd and some git stuff. 19:55:20 quickproject doesn't do any git stuff 19:55:21 schmrkc: ah, right. 19:55:27 Xach: oh "it's in quicklisp" got it. thanks. 19:55:50 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@201.82.192.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:55:50 the git stuff is pretty easy to do by hand 19:57:45 or quickproject could have some hooks 19:57:49 -!- michael` [~user@cpe-76-172-217-134.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:58:26 *redline6561* votes for hooks 19:58:31 ...once the dist update is done of course. ;) 19:58:56 michael` [~user@cpe-76-172-217-134.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:59:05 well, maybe hooks aren't needed if the user can simple have his own make-project function in .lisprc :) 19:59:19 hooks would be nice 19:59:52 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.251.4] has joined #lisp 20:00:08 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:03:04 holy bajeesus, i finally got SLIME working 20:03:23 now i just need to figure out why it is so useful to me (aside from having a REPL within emacs) 20:03:53 osoleve: a keystroke to compile individual things you're looking at in a file. 20:04:03 make sure you use slime-fancy or some of its constituents 20:04:08 osoleve: arglists in the minibuffer as you write. 20:04:26 osoleve: jumping to definitions, jumping to frame sources in the debugger. 20:04:51 thanks for trying to educate me, but you're wayyyy beyond my level 20:04:53 haha 20:04:58 -!- quantum [~nurlan@109.127.29.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:06:01 carlocci [~nes@93.37.196.209] has joined #lisp 20:06:12 guys can someone tell me why this happens http://pastie.org/1279811 20:06:46 -!- tama is now known as coyo 20:06:53 -!- coyo [~tama@ip65-46-142-190.z142-46-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:06:53 coyo [~tama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 20:06:58 homie: looks like you're trying to load old .fasls into an upgraded sbcl 20:07:14 ah 20:07:15 ok 20:07:27 actually... 20:07:31 something else looks wrong there. 20:07:38 I do rm -rf ~/.cache/common-lisp whenever I compile a new sbcl 20:07:49 the runtime expects (:GENCGC :SB-PACKAGE-LOCKS :SB-THREAD :SB-THREAD :SB-UNICODE) 20:08:02 sb-thread is there twice 20:08:20 yep 20:08:57 i don't know it was already in my base-target-features-lisp-expr file enabled, but then i don't know where the 20:08:57 seconf comes from 20:09:06 second 20:09:23 i deleted my .cache now and .slime too, trying again 20:10:12 homie: just a guess but do you unconditionally push :sb-thread in a customize-target-features? 20:12:03 syntard [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has joined #lisp 20:12:09 -!- hdurer_ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:12:09 hdurer_ [~holly@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has joined #lisp 20:14:14 vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 20:15:08 no 20:16:00 i did that in another copy of my sbcl folder where i left the base-target-features file untouched and instead used 20:16:00 that file which i my self created from the INSTALL manual by copying stuff from there 20:17:13 but the install is from that folder where i had no customize thingy 20:17:23 now i get another error 20:17:24 gah 20:17:37 /usr/share/common-lisp/systems/osicat.asd: 20:17:37 component "trivial-features" not found 20:17:38 20:17:55 but trivial-features is already there and already linked 20:18:11 i desperately need a cigarette, but i'm very unhappy with how these two functions came out http://paste.lisp.org/display/116349 20:18:25 could someone leave a note or two to help me make it... not suck? 20:19:58 osoleve: have you tried compiling and running them? 20:20:41 i don't even care if they work or not yet... they just don't feel very lisp-y to me and that's what i'm trying to learn 20:21:44 osoleve: I think trying to run them will help you understand where you've gone wrong. 20:21:54 osoleve: It's good to get into a feedback loop with your implementation. 20:22:34 okay, i'm going to get my nic fix, try and refactor them into a connecting functions, and THEN bug you again 20:22:37 osoleve: Start by doing (defparameter *word-list* nil) somewhere and getting rid of the first setf in both functions. 20:22:39 osoleve: For one thing, don't use global variables when you can use local ones. It is better for functions to take arguments and to return values than to have side effects on particular global variables. 20:22:55 osoleve: Trust beach, not me. :) 20:23:25 okay, thanks. 20:23:33 but seriously, cigarette time. 20:24:11 osoleve: Oh, and get rid of that filthy habit! I did a long time ago! 20:24:41 i'm trying to trade lisp for nicotine 20:24:43 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:24:45 *Fade* lights a cigar 20:24:45 they're equally addictive 20:26:18 osoleve: Yeah, but one has a negative effect on others, the other doesn't (or maybe it does on some, but then they deserve it). 20:26:59 If I cared about human well-being, I wouldn't have had that stint as a chemist. ;) 20:26:59 kmurph79 [~kmurph79@66-215-55-253.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:14 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-150.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 20:28:19 Trying to install clisp via Homebrew ( https://github.com/mxcl/homebrew/blob/master/Library/Formula/clisp.rb ) keeps stalling at the ulimit && make part -- computer goes up to 86 degrees. ive left it there for like 10 min but it never finishes 20:29:19 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 20:32:40 Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-15-45.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:32:45 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:33:01 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:33:14 kmurph79: that doesn't necessarily sound wrong. maybe it just takes longer than 10 minutes to build 20:33:49 incandenza: yeah maybe, afraid my computer is going to explode though 20:34:25 that's a pretty normal temp for a macbook under load in my experience 20:35:53 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-150.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:00 touche 20:37:45 heh. I didn't mean it that way. just that it's a normal temperature for the chip and not a problem. (it would throttle down if it was overheating, but that would be like over 100C at least) 20:38:07 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has joined #lisp 20:38:40 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 20:39:36 incandenza: didn't know that. i'll try again. thanks 20:39:41 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:40:35 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:32 schell [~schellsci@c-76-103-111-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:13 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:43:35 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:46:02 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Changing host] 20:46:02 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/antispammeta] has joined #lisp 20:46:10 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:47:04 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 20:47:22 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/antispammeta] has quit [Changing host] 20:47:22 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 20:47:52 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 20:48:13 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:31 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:49:55 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:53:53 -!- silenius [~silenus@rrcs-64-183-24-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:54:43 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:57:29 incandenza: yeah that worked, thanks again 20:57:43 kmurph79: no problem 20:59:34 quantum [~nurlan@109.127.29.172] has joined #lisp 20:59:57 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:00:08 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:01:28 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:02:19 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-150.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 21:03:26 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 21:06:11 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:08:08 vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 21:10:02 Should sb-cltl2:variable-information give a compiler macro the locally declared variable information? I'm not sure how to get this http://paste.lisp.org/display/116354 21:14:21 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:31 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-119-51.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: hefner] 21:15:22 fucking shit!, now i got them weir weird weird errors 21:15:23 -!- osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:26 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:15:40 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-119-51.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 21:15:44 i had another copy of an old asdf in my .sbcl folder wich was locally linked there 21:15:57 that gave all the trouble 21:16:16 oh man 21:18:03 -!- quantum [~nurlan@109.127.29.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:18:29 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 21:18:41 homie: time for some sleep? 21:19:36 oh heh, no that was bugging me a longer time now 21:19:48 like 2 or 3 days already 21:20:04 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:04 and i was thinking something with quicklisp or my .sbcl file was not ok 21:21:28 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-131.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: netytan] 21:22:14 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 21:24:23 dborba [~dborba@173-103-5-204.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:21 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:14 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:28:29 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD95B80.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4-dev] 21:29:09 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:30:10 vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 21:30:49 can someone tell me if that is an actual bug ? 21:31:03 guys, whats the best way to do an iteration like a "while loop" is in Lisp? 21:31:18 -!- unkanon [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has left #lisp 21:31:22 and the while test condition is predicate test 21:31:23 having an older copy of an asdf linked in /home/user/.sbcl giving endless problems, beginning with not loading 21:31:24 systems ? 21:31:33 just wondering if i use loop? 21:32:21 something like while( condition is true ) form1, form2, ... formN 21:33:36 -!- MeCKaM [MiRC@120.28.93.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:33:38 -!- lune [~claire@97.76.48.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:33:42 edlinde: what exactly do you want to do? 21:33:48 edlinde: (loop while do form1 form2 etc...) 21:33:58 progn ? 21:34:11 beach: thanks will look into that form of loop 21:34:16 homie: Not necessary. 21:34:21 ok 21:34:22 beach: He may be wanting a while because that's what he knows, maybe something else is more appropriate 21:34:46 drdo: We'll get there eventually! 21:34:46 drdo: its a macros that needs to be written that acts like a while 21:35:14 but then i need to be able to write a normal function which can do a while 21:35:37 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 21:36:41 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:38:32 beach: is this a good place to start looking at possible construct for loop? http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm#loop 21:38:53 or do you suggest some other resource that explains all possible things I can achieve using the loop construct 21:39:01 in PCL I think they use DO 21:39:16 but I want to learn LOOP as it seems more powerful :) 21:39:42 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:40:41 osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:00 ... Doesn't PCL have a section titled "LOOP for Black Belts" or something like that? 21:41:44 edlinde, nyef: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/loop-for-black-belts.html 21:42:22 http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/speope_tagbody.html 21:44:06 You probably want this for your while macro 21:44:58 For anybody here before, I'd like to gleefully announce that not only do I have SLIME working, but I successfully used to REPL to debug a function instead of asking you guys. 21:45:27 osoleve: Congratulations! Now you just need to work your way up to debugging by pure deduction from the output! 21:45:33 minion: Advice on holmes? 21:45:33 #11915: Only Sherlock Holmes can debug the program by pure deduction from the output. You are not Sherlock Holmes. Run the fucking debugger already. 21:45:36 osoleve: good show! 21:45:45 :D 21:45:49 #lisp feels bad, #lisp thought it was the best debugger :( 21:46:46 #lisp may be the best hivemind debugger in existence, but it is still human and feelsaggravation. 21:46:57 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 21:47:15 How do you know the users in here are humans? 21:47:21 trance [~trance@unaffiliated/trance] has joined #lisp 21:47:26 nyef: I thought the programmers nagged Doyle that the term he was looking for was backward chaining 21:47:49 -!- trance [~trance@unaffiliated/trance] has left #lisp 21:47:50 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 21:47:59 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:38 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:49:31 -!- dborba [~dborba@173-103-5-204.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:49:51 I have my doubts about minion's fleshiness 21:50:02 I think he maybe a bot 21:51:05 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:51:23 nope, minion is just an intern 21:51:33 lune [~claire@97.76.48.98] has joined #lisp 21:53:44 vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 21:54:38 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:56:23 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:56:48 nyef: in fact, everyone performs backward chaining, e.g. for explanations.. but in Holmes's case the trial and error process is cut very short 22:00:46 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-184-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:30 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:10 benny [~benny@i577A2CE8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:03:50 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-88-174.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:07:56 Anybody using cgn here? I need to create simple diagrams from time series data. Is cgn a good choice for that? 22:08:48 younder [~jthing@124.202.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 22:10:23 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-36-82-251-26-243.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:10:37 did you try clnuplot ? 22:11:07 or wait what does cgn do, just plot or calculate ? 22:11:40 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 22:12:30 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 22:13:20 oh ok both interface to gnuplot 22:13:34 -!- osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:20 http://ai-contest.com/rankings.php lisp still on the lead, go mega1, go!!! :) 22:14:46 yes, I'm going to bed 22:15:54 homie: have you used clnuplot? 22:15:55 -!- coyo [~tama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:16:00 mega1: still using 1.0.18 ? 22:16:12 1.0.11 22:16:12 dborba [~dborba@173-103-5-204.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:26 :-O 22:17:02 sbcl from 3 years ago 22:17:04 -!- syntard [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:07 syntard__ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has joined #lisp 22:17:07 -!- syntard__ is now known as syntard 22:17:54 not really kami` 22:18:12 homie: OK, thank you for the pointer. 22:18:20 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-86-205.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:27 i just once tested some plotting libs and got them to run, but can't remember which one it was 22:18:59 the one you mentioned is pipe based 22:19:21 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 22:19:28 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-123-94.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:24:26 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-168-127.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:43 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.22.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:24:46 osoleve [~andy@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:17 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.22.43] has joined #lisp 22:33:22 kinda dead in here :( 22:35:07 -!- osoleve [~andy@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:36:29 osoleve [~andy@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:29 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 22:41:05 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:42:13 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Client Quit] 22:43:18 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:44:08 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:2462:38c8:9ca6:551f] has joined #lisp 22:45:32 urandom_ [~user@p548A4D06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:29 devinus_ [~devinus@cpe-66-68-82-202.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:47:47 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2E52.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:48:30 -!- dreamcode [~Wistful@unaffiliated/wistful] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:48:59 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-168-127.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:52:58 I'm defining a DO style macro over some object, and that macro uses DO, how can i write it so that a RETURN returns from my block and not DO's block? 22:53:40 return-from ? 22:53:50 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-165-135.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:54:21 clhs return-from 22:54:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_ret_fr.htm 22:54:36 clhs blcok 22:54:37 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for blcok. 22:54:42 clhs block 22:54:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_block.htm 22:54:49 I mean, i want the resulting macroexpansion to have a block named nil to allow users of the macro to use RETURN and return from my block 22:55:11 drdo: don't use DO. 22:55:34 pkhuong_: Yeah, that's the obvious answer, but i would like to 22:55:40 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 22:57:27 Isn't there a way to do this? (if you understand what i'm trying to do) 22:57:43 syntard__ [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:33 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A4D06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:50 -!- syntard_ [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:59:16 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:50 -!- dborba [~dborba@173-103-5-204.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:01:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:02:44 oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-26-225.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:04:10 -!- mejalx_ is now known as mejalx 23:06:27 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-184-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 23:06:41 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:07:29 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050066175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:11:19 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:57 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-49-187.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:16 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 23:13:33 pebkc [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:13:35 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:13:57 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-201-226.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 23:18:27 rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:52 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:18:56 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:19:10 vroufe [~omx@ppp95-165-16-54.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 23:19:21 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:20:20 -!- pebkc [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has left #lisp 23:20:28 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:20:32 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.57.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:51 when I execute the first of the two functions here, I get an error I don't quite understand. Can anyone help me figure this out? 23:22:05 http://pastebin.com/psqWdpwF 23:23:41 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Changing server...] 23:23:46 osoleve: What error did you get? 23:24:14 osoleve: setf doesn't create a binding, use let 23:24:35 http://pastebin.com/ed1J9WCw 23:24:49 osoleve: and that call to make-array creates an array of rank 0, most certainly not what you want 23:24:58 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:09 osoleve: that error is telling you _exactly_ what's wrong 23:25:16 osoleve: "unknown loop keyword push" is pretty straightforward. 23:25:39 and also the warning is telling you something important as well :) 23:26:31 how do i make an adjustable length array with zero initial elements? 23:26:52 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:10 osoleve: (make-array 0 :adjustable t) 23:27:28 ...ah, thanks 23:27:29 :fill-pointer 0 is something you also probably want. 23:27:40 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.57.217] has joined #lisp 23:27:40 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-123-94.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 23:27:47 i never could grasp what a fill-pointer was :/ 23:28:25 after a whole week of studying lisp? 23:28:28 give it time. 23:29:03 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:29:04 If you want to push things into a vector with vector-push or vector-push-extend, you need a fill pointer. 23:31:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.58.193] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:32:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:32:52 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:33:45 what is a fill-poimter, in layman's terms? 23:34:54 osoleve: If you have a vector of size 10 with a fill-pointer at 5, normal vector functions treat the vector as size 5. 23:35:09 ohhh 23:35:16 osoleve: So you can push or pop things by incrementing or decrementing the fill-pointer. 23:35:27 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:35:35 osoleve: check out http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_f.htm 23:35:40 With an adjustable vector, you can push beyond the original size, and the vector will grow. 23:36:33 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:43:16 -!- kmurph79 [~kmurph79@66-215-55-253.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: kmurph79] 23:44:09 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:48:24 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757a2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:47 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:15 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:52:43 -!- jeti [~user@p548E9F4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:56:04 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:36 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:56:58 -!- shakshak [~user@41.238.33.63] has left #lisp 23:57:12 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:28 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp