00:00:17 rtoym: ah, I forgot to tell you, but the maxima experiment has failed, mostly due to the confusing structure of the matlab code and the need to understand and replicate / port / redesign every single piece of the code, which was simply too confusing 00:00:31 p_l: ok, thanks ;) 00:01:49 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 00:04:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-44.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:56 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-76-24-31-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:07:11 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-206-4.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:07:42 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-196.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:07:46 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-196.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:08:35 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-37-109.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:08:38 -!- Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-62-222.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:08:39 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-33-88.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:09:05 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@155.Red-88-15-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:10:07 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:15 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-206-4.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:10:19 -!- silenius [~silenus@rrcs-64-183-24-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:10:51 -!- saac [~saac@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:12:14 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:14:34 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:47 saac [~saac@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 00:16:18 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 00:21:10 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:26:20 superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:39 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:29:27 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:44 silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:32:14 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 00:35:45 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:40:55 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 00:41:04 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D768.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:43:44 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu256.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:44:01 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:00 <_6502_> sleeptime... l8r 00:48:06 -!- _6502_ [4e0cf907@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.249.7] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:48:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:48:54 sykopomp: glad you got some comments! 00:49:55 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 00:50:10 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-158-196.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:50:51 -!- symbole_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:22 symbole_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 00:51:26 -!- easyE [LLqvRdZUEd@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:51:42 seangrov` [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:55 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:56 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:52:56 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:56:38 gz_ [~gz@rrcs-208-125-251-170.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:58:35 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:03:08 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0225.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:06:19 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:07:44 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 01:08:12 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 01:11:26 adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:47 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-33-88.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:15:01 -!- jeti [~user@p54B46513.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:16:48 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-65-135.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:17:11 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 01:19:56 -!- franki^ is now known as fds 01:20:15 -!- fds is now known as franki^ 01:22:06 konr [~user@187.106.38.106] has joined #lisp 01:23:37 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:23:43 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.22.43] has joined #lisp 01:24:01 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-025-078.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:24:32 *schmrkc* orders some land of lisp. 01:27:23 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:28:40 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0225.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 01:28:52 drdo` [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 01:30:41 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:31:53 -!- seangrov` [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:33:31 -!- hdurer_ [~holly@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:33:58 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-42E2FE9E.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: gz_] 01:33:58 -!- gz_ [~gz@rrcs-208-125-251-170.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: gz_] 01:34:25 hdurer_ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:44 out of stock. I guess I will wait 01:36:14 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host86-145-188-254.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: vokoda] 01:38:16 bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:35 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 01:41:16 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.242] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:41:53 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:41:58 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:42:34 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:44:18 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:44:58 sabalabas [~sabalaba@123.118.81.180] has joined #lisp 01:48:28 errkle [~user@c-71-56-115-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:53 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:52:18 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 01:55:05 Efthymios [~Efthymios@12.18.245.219] has joined #lisp 01:57:26 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 02:01:14 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 02:10:28 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-185-215.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:10:43 -!- syntard [~quassel@204.51.92.251] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:50 tama [~tama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:02 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:18:18 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 02:19:45 *Fare* supposes that the "right" thing to do to continue XCVB is to write an OMake-like distributed backend growing its own internal datastructures and protocols, and compile the Lisp frontend to it, rather than taylor the build datastructures to Lisp. 02:20:10 "every execution layer should have its own DSL" 02:20:35 syntard [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:29 -!- Efthymios [~Efthymios@12.18.245.219] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:21:32 I'm on windows 7 now, trying to slime sbcl, getting couldn't read from # {24A1F611}>: Invalid argument ... 02:22:26 ccl starts fine, however 02:23:43 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:25:55 -!- gz [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 02:26:41 mathrick: In many ways, I'm not too surprised. Maxima is probably missing lots of matlab functionality and fast matlab code is highly vectorized to use matrix operations. These probably won't be so good in maxima, if they even exist. 02:27:47 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:27:53 rtoym: we didn't really get to that part. Just porting some really tiny portions of the system hit issues like "we have no clue how that works and where this function comes from" 02:28:34 which is less of a problem if you're trying to optimise the high-level algorithm portions than if you're trying to port it completely over 02:29:50 Been there and done that too. Eventually I figured out what was going on, and then it was really simple. But the vectorization was just awful. 02:30:44 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:32:32 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:34:20 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 02:39:33 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:48 -!- hdurer_ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:43:09 symbole [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:32 -!- rme [rme@clozure-AC1C217F.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:43:32 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-122-27.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:45:45 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:47:25 -!- unkanon [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 02:47:33 unkanon [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 02:50:20 _pw_ [~user@123.112.77.61] has joined #lisp 02:50:23 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:54:37 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:05 -!- silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:55:06 humasect: you and your friends are given a bad role in landoflisp.com 02:55:28 me and my who? what is landoplisp.com ? *checks* 02:55:54 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-025-078.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:56:04 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:56:11 humasect: after you view the video, scroll down... 02:56:23 hey this page is cool =) 02:56:23 silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:39 is it the music video? i saw it on youtube the other day =) =) 02:57:20 -!- xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 02:58:14 haha oh i see! =) =) 02:58:50 hehe the ruby turret does not look like it would work. =) 02:59:02 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:59:09 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 02:59:09 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:59:36 xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has joined #lisp 03:00:01 *humasect* cant remember the last time he had a bug =) 03:02:11 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:13 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Client Quit] 03:03:04 Fare: heheh, wonderful, thanks =) =) 03:06:05 Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:41 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:52 hey guys i am attempting to write a macro to batch up definitions .. like (defmacros '((a () `(test)) (b () `(test)))) 03:11:09 (defun d () (draw-known-city) (asdf:run-shell-command "qiv -m known-city.dot.png")) (defun w (&rest x) (dolist (i x) (walk i)) (d)) 03:11:19 makes it easier to hunt the wumpus 03:13:53 humasect: ok? 03:14:56 oh yeah 03:15:58 it looks like i am about here but i just opened the code from yesterday -> (defmacro defpsmacros (lst) (mapcar (lambda (v) (cons 'defpsmacro v)) lst)) 03:16:27 i had it partially working but not quite in another version. one moment.. 03:18:46 is there a recursive version of mapcar defined in the standard? i.e. map a func to each element, but if a list, map to that list and store results in a sub list? maptree essentially 03:20:02 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:20:27 easy enough to write 03:20:35 <`3b`> humasect: are you looking for PROGN? 03:20:42 humasect: I do't uinderstand what you want to do? 03:22:21 humasect: cons progn onto the start of that 03:22:25 it is so easy i cant see it until i let go of beliefs =) 03:22:26 ahh progn... 03:22:40 yan_: you know that mapcar takes many lists, so maptree would probably have to take lists with same tree structure 03:22:48 how come progn ? ohh, duhh... =) =) 03:23:14 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:23:47 humasect: because macro calls do not evaluate to a function. 03:23:48 clhs: mapcar 03:23:49 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 03:23:58 syntard: yup. i just wanted to see if there was a built in version of it 03:24:31 Ralith: yes i see 03:25:01 yan_: could be easier to start with maptree1, that takes one list 03:25:16 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:28:33 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:28:37 yan_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116216 , untested 03:29:12 hmm, we have a "deep-mapcar" that does nested conses as well as handles dotted ends of lists, and "deeper-mapcar" which also goes into array elements, and hashtable keys & values 03:29:31 there always seems to be more or different features to tack onto those sorts of tools. It's hard to write a one-size-fits-all 03:29:40 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-55-13.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:29:43 -!- plediii [~plediii@adsl-99-62-29-224.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:30:04 _danb_` [~user@124-168-42-90.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:30:16 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 03:30:23 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:31:18 that maptree1 from syntard should also handle dotted lists 03:31:39 syntard: hmm. how easy is it? =) 03:31:41 -!- _danb_` is now known as _danb_ 03:31:53 my brain is having trouble with this at the moment but i will get there 03:32:28 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 03:32:52 humasect: this is easy, I hope clos is palatable 03:33:20 yep! 03:33:29 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:33:53 it is because i have just eaten a large meal and my eyes wont show me the order of what goes where , even though it is grokked 03:34:29 It's probably that lonely (cons 03:35:08 ohh 03:36:49 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 03:38:15 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pyubqkpsvccadltn] has joined #lisp 03:39:20 oh boy, this code is so wrong 03:40:30 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:40:37 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:41:23 -!- emma_ is now known as emma 03:41:24 btw, someone was talking about origin of rplaca... I found it hardcoded in Lisp 1.0 source, so it's quite an old thing :) 03:42:17 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:43:10 adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:48 syntard: yep! =) 03:45:05 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-196.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:45:23 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-196.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:46:09 sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:46:32 -!- _pw_ [~user@123.112.77.61] has left #lisp 03:50:00 according to some company, lisp was designed for a specialized type of oo 03:50:24 its a trick fact -- lisp was not designed 03:51:10 oh, but it *was*! the ultimate computer language guide said so! http://www.datarecoverylabs.com/ultimate-computer-language-guide.html 03:51:30 hence the trick =) 03:51:34 (there's a lot of wtfs in that) 03:51:44 the computer told us how it would be best communicated with by humans 03:51:48 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-196.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:51:50 ah, hehe 03:54:01 my paste crashed paste 03:54:02 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-196.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:54:38 syntard: is it a godelian proof? 03:54:52 yan_: sorry, i fixed it : http://paste.lisp.org/display/116216#1 03:55:19 caelan: just limitation of language 03:55:37 caelan: and poor transmission medium: I actually pronounce them differently 03:56:01 :) 03:56:56 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:57:06 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:36 I think i lifted it from eopl 03:59:38 *syntard* shouldn't rely on parens matching as proof of correctness 04:02:23 _pw_ [~user@123.112.77.61] has joined #lisp 04:06:14 notsonerdysunny_ [79f3b6b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.243.182.185] has joined #lisp 04:10:23 .... 04:10:36 "Haskell is a scripting language inspired by Python. The current version is Haskell 98." 04:10:42 ... ROTFL 04:10:44 wow 04:10:48 -!- notsonerdysunny_ [79f3b6b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.243.182.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:10:51 "Erlang is a programming language and runtime environment. It is one of few languages that support software 'hot swapping' which enables code to be rewritten without shutting down the program itself." 04:10:55 this is just full of comedy gold. 04:11:21 "Java is one of the first truly object oriented languages. It was developed by Sun Microsystems originally as an operating system which could power appliances. It incorporates aspects of interpreted and compiled languages while remaining highly cross platform." 04:13:43 yeah, the haskell one is just great 04:13:59 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 04:14:04 this is painful 04:14:07 especially since, as far as i can tell, haskell influenced python 04:14:28 anair_84 [~anair_84@149.142.112.2] has joined #lisp 04:14:31 -!- silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:14:56 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@149.142.112.2] has left #lisp 04:18:48 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:19:09 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-rwltqmfqwwvoncwm] has joined #lisp 04:21:09 <_pw_> Is haskell a scripting language? 04:21:26 no 04:21:28 yes 04:21:37 sometimes=) 04:22:03 *p_l|home* wouldn't use it for that 04:22:04 it is when it is 04:22:08 =) 04:22:12 <_pw_> What's the formal definition of scripting language? 04:22:18 there is none 04:22:33 that i know of, anyway 04:23:11 _pw_: using Haskell as a scripting language is like submitting a giant COBOL program in source form in a JCL job that involves few compilation phases, instead of compiling it once and running it later 04:23:39 that's an exaggeration in case it is not obvious. 04:23:41 p_l|home: what about hugs? 04:23:43 scratch COBOL, PL/I, cobol is too simple 04:23:52 caelan: Someone is still using Hugs? xD 04:24:06 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:19 i used to, when i had the misfortune to be stuck on windows without a lisp implementation 04:24:23 important thing about haskell - the practical spec is "what is currently in GHC" 04:25:13 the difference is that they've got nicer extension practice and they specifically geared the community towards one that won't complain about deprecating stuff and molding the language 04:25:36 someone has a lot of strong things to say about haskell 04:25:59 humasect: effect of hanging around some people who use it (not only on #haskell) 04:26:15 oh, not used it yourself? okay, nothing else to say. 04:26:16 I also tried it, but I didn't spend enough time to use it well 04:26:42 it may be best to let others find out for themselves and not from a second hand of a second hand experience. 04:26:43 (unless you count "writing my xmonad.hs by hand" to be using it.) 04:26:54 <_pw_> p_l|home: so few use haskell seriously. 04:27:38 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:27:41 i've used it seriously, but not incredibly seriously 04:27:44 _pw_: actually quite a lot seem to be using Haskell seriously, including at least one report from a company that mixed it into the big, commercial ERP system that was used 04:27:57 financial community seems to be well represented though 04:28:03 i am still using it quite seriously 04:28:14 "microsoft research center" doesn't sound terribly low-key 04:28:14 -!- _8086_ [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:28:56 -!- saac [~saac@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:29:01 OCaml, Haskell and Scheme together have very strong presence in certain business areas, it seems (F# is a Caml derivative, btw) 04:29:23 saac [~saac@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 04:29:23 -!- saac [~saac@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Changing host] 04:29:23 saac [~saac@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 04:29:30 may as well include Erlang theree. 04:30:46 well, the functional ones seem to be sitting mostly in analysis 04:30:57 Erlang kicks ass in transaction processing, IMHO :) 04:31:15 saac_ [~saac@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 04:31:21 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 04:31:22 -!- saac_ [~saac@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 04:31:46 they were all designed to kick ass for the things they were designed for. lisp however has no design, so... =) 04:31:58 it kicks butt at everything or nothing. 04:32:23 almost quoting caelan: "it does when it does". =) 04:32:27 <_pw_> for general purpos == for none? 04:32:33 yep 04:33:58 *p_l|home* shivers after noticing his lisp webapp engine morph slightly into a WebMainframe 04:36:28 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:37:03 -!- saac [~saac@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:40:28 silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:35 -!- az [~az@p4FE4EA43.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:46:57 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-116.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:48:41 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 04:49:55 Good morning everyone! 04:50:38 ... it's dark outside 04:50:47 dborba [~dborba@c-71-62-159-244.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:50 True that! :( 04:50:56 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 04:51:59 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 04:52:15 -!- silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:19 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:55:33 -!- tama [~tama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:58:08 silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:04:09 chp [3d87a5ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.135.165.174] has joined #lisp 05:05:35 -!- silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:23 silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:08:38 starseek1r [~starseeke@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has joined #lisp 05:09:05 Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 05:10:36 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:10:50 -!- starseeker [~starseeke@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:11:00 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:11:07 -!- Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:11:07 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:11:13 Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:11:55 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:17 -!- joe1 [~joe@c-24-126-150-146.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:13:20 -!- Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:13:56 az [~az@p4FE4F9E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:33 lonelyibex [~lonelyibe@58.20.105.166] has joined #lisp 05:15:06 ArtVandalae [~SuperUnkn@220-253-40-212.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:17:10 Hi all, I'm using Common Lisp. I want to this in a purely functional way (so only recursion/no looping). I want a function such that: (X '(1 2 3) '(4 5 6)), returns ('(1 4 5 6) '(2 4 5 6) '(3 4 5 6)), is there such a built in, or do I have to combine lambdas with a map-like function? 05:17:58 Sorry, it's been a while since I've done any Lisp... and even then I was a newbie :) 05:18:15 (defun x (a b) (mapcar (lambda (e) (cons e b)) a)) 05:18:16 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 05:18:34 Sorry, you want (defun x (a b) (mapcar (lambda (e) (list 'quote (cons e b))) a)) 05:20:22 Thanks pjb! 05:20:29 Closures are so cool :P 05:21:58 Why do you want quotes inside the list? 05:22:20 Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 05:22:22 TraumaPwny [~TraumaPon@124-171-205-153.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:22:44 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-214-91-66.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:22:47 -!- TraumaPwny is now known as TraumaPony 05:23:00 pjb, maybe I don't? I just thought if they're not there, Lisp might attempt to evaluate them as functions 05:23:11 Why? 05:23:55 oh, you mean on the output. That was me copying/pasting my input 05:24:21 Yes, I meant the output. 05:25:16 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:25:31 yeah, sorry that was my Lisp-newbie traits shining through. 05:25:34 -!- Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:25:58 Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 05:25:58 Lisp is a great language, I keep telling myself I'm going to sit down one summer and use it every day. 05:27:47 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 05:28:13 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:28:13 Don't wait the summer, use it everyday from today. 05:28:24 Just write all your scripts and programs in lisp! 05:28:47 You may indulge in emacs lisp and scheme, for some specific needs. 05:29:03 =) 05:29:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:30:13 -!- Sulimo [~angel@host209-237-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:30:17 -!- silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:30:30 -!- Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:32:59 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 05:34:37 Sulimo [~angel@host209-237-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 05:37:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:38:55 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 05:39:22 pjb, I assume you're using Common Lisp then? Can I ask which compiler/interpreter you're using? 05:41:22 silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:42:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:42:42 All of them. 05:43:39 http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/?a=viewblob&p=public/bin&h=1eedc49be4bb8a3729d02550c674122761f63c06&hb=c5dacb45a4239fe9ec987ca071b53e34b2d84aee&f=clall 05:44:18 fusss [~chatzilla@CPE-65-31-225-242.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:44:22 -!- silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:45:36 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-nxapsfzwurqgyaze] has joined #lisp 05:47:08 haha, damn 05:48:30 Really. http://pastebin.com/E79vPEAc 05:49:21 that's pretty cool :P 05:49:21 -!- sabalabas [~sabalaba@123.118.81.180] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:50:09 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:50:19 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:50:21 So then you're probably the right person to ask my next question. I want to interface C code with Lisp (i.e. call a C function from Lisp). Scheme (gambit-c) seems to allow me to do this. Are there any CL interpreters/compilers that can do this? 05:50:45 ECL has a direct interface. Others have FFIs. 05:50:47 <`3b`> do any not? 05:50:52 jimmy_sjtu [~jimmy@218.193.190.132] has joined #lisp 05:50:54 All can do that. 05:51:01 (apart from abcl) 05:51:13 *`3b`* thought abcl did too 05:51:14 Use CFFI to avoid idiosyncrasies. 05:51:21 abcl does it with Java. 05:51:31 saac [~saac@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 05:51:40 I wonder if abcl could use JNI :) 05:51:49 <`3b`> i thought there was a cffi port that used jni or similar 05:51:51 haha, probably 05:52:03 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:07 <`3b`> ah, JNA apparently 05:53:49 -!- dborba [~dborba@c-71-62-159-244.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 05:54:08 hey, help, http://paste.lisp.org/display/116223 05:54:35 jimmy_sjtu: perhaps you want to ask that on #scheme? 05:54:38 jimmy: You are missing an intelligent question. 05:54:47 I have a (loop? x) to search a loop in list x 05:55:16 here for CL? 05:55:26 Why aren't you using the classic tortoise and hare algorithm? 05:56:33 silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:42 Zhivago: I know that, but my point is that: when a list x has a loop, then (loop? x) never return. 05:57:59 jimmy: printing out x on each iteration might be enlightening. 05:58:11 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 05:59:02 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:59:05 Zhivago: (define x '(a b c)) (make-cycle x) (loop? x) just don't work. 06:00:08 -!- silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:00:13 jimmy: Please come back when you are less stupid. 06:00:14 Zhivago: When I print x, it's a loop, and a long list of (a b c a b c *****) and never return. 06:00:28 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:00:56 jimm:y: So, why would that be the case? 06:01:42 jimmy: What do you expect to cause the recursion to terminate in that case? 06:02:08 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-199-204.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 06:02:12 Xach: I noticed one thing that really bothers me in QuickLisp - there's no command to just *install*, not "install and load" 06:02:32 Zhivago: do you read my paste? 06:02:41 jimmy: Sure. Now answer my question. 06:02:51 jimmy_sjtu: hint: there's a wrong test. 06:03:50 -!- caelan [~caelan@65.122.173.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:03:52 pjb: so what's the right thing to do. 06:04:01 To identify it, and to correct it. 06:04:06 jimmy: The right thing to do is to be able to answer my question. 06:04:21 jimmy: If you're unable to answer simple questions, please go away. 06:04:21 jimmy_sjtu: Now, the first thing that I don't like in your code, is the use of local define. 06:04:47 That makes it harder to test things. 06:05:00 And it happens I am right in having this dislike, because if you had put those define at the top level, perhaps you could have indeed, tested them alone. 06:05:17 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:28 enupten [~neptune@117.254.157.199] has joined #lisp 06:05:34 Another thing, is that you're reimplementing functions that are in the r5rs standard. 06:05:41 Zhivago: I just want the loop? tell me it's a loop and return. 06:05:49 jimmy: Please go away. 06:06:00 For example to #scheme ? 06:06:18 Well, to wherever people who want other people to do their homework for them should go. 06:06:48 vWorker? (aka Rent-a-Coder) :D 06:06:50 If you can't understand your code well enough to answer a question like I asked, then you didn't write it or are extremely lazy. 06:06:58 Either way, go away. 06:07:29 Zhivago: please be patient, thanks. 06:08:06 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:08:12 jimmy: So, what do you expect to terminate the recursion in your cyclic case? 06:08:18 jimmy_sjtu: so you have a wrong test, and you would do good in testing each of your function individually. You've got stuff to do... 06:08:37 Well, he doesn't need to test it if he can manage to think about what his code does. 06:08:45 The problem is obvious if you trace it through. 06:09:59 Zhivago: I know the reason why it nerver return, cause it want to evaluate the argument before apply the proceedure loop? 06:10:15 jimmy: No. 06:10:30 jimmy: Did you write this code? 06:10:39 Zhivago: I wrote it. 06:10:52 jimmy_sjtu: you have a repl, use it! 06:10:56 jimmy: So, what controls if loop-aux recurses or not? 06:11:06 jimmy_sjtu: when you write a function, you must test it immediately! 06:11:15 <`3b`> jimmy_sjtu: if you answer Zhivago's questions you will probably be directed to the problem pretty quickly 06:11:42 <`3b`> testing the individual functions would be a reasonable thing to do as well :) 06:12:31 I'll test it again before I came back. 06:12:56 jimmy_sjtu: get the inner defines out, and test each of them too. 06:12:58 Anyway, thanks. 06:12:58 Good luck. Learn to think. 06:14:31 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:16:53 s0ng0ku [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:55 It would be nice if scheme had first class environments and let the repl enter them. 06:17:47 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:17:52 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:08 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:21:38 Zhivago: isn't that what "let" is 06:21:54 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:21:59 silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:24:01 adu: No. 06:26:42 -!- petter` [~user@217.118.44.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:27:38 -!- unkanon [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:27:49 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 06:27:58 unkanon [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 06:33:22 Zhivago: clisp implements that. It's invoked via BREAK or INVOKE-DEBUGGER. 06:36:29 seangrov` [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:27 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 06:37:44 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:39:26 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:39:29 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pyubqkpsvccadltn] has left #lisp 06:39:50 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.118.81.180] has joined #lisp 06:40:20 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.118.81.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:41:01 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 06:42:21 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:42:29 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hwrjjndhdcolcbyh] has joined #lisp 06:47:13 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:47:25 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-65-135.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:47:33 pjb: Requires source to be butchered to be effective. 06:48:34 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-28-132.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:55:40 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:56:40 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:01:17 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:41 -!- p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:02:18 p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:04:27 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:07:03 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B327C3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:22 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:56 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B241.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:12:02 Zhivago: I finally find the bug in my code. 07:13:01 Zhivago: Thanks. Rewrite it and all goes well. 07:14:15 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:14:36 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:15:08 slyrus [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:11 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.118.81.180] has joined #lisp 07:15:15 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 07:17:06 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:17:06 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:17:06 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:20:10 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:20:45 xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has joined #lisp 07:21:50 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.118.81.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:23:27 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:26:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:26:21 Joreji [~thomas@83-205.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:27:46 Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 07:27:58 vokoda [~vokoda@host86-145-188-254.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 07:29:21 -!- saac [~saac@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Changing host] 07:29:22 saac [~saac@unaffiliated/saac] has joined #lisp 07:31:11 -!- boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 07:31:24 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f72e1d2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:33 boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:32:08 -!- Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:33:08 hah! My poor crontab-based alarm clock works 07:34:57 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:35:07 good morning 07:35:27 Neurotron [~Neuroneut@bb219-75-97-253.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 07:35:34 Hello all. 07:38:16 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:39:33 -!- gz [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 07:39:36 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:40:01 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:40:33 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@131.104.49.215] has joined #lisp 07:42:10 Hello all. 07:42:48 you already said that, didn't you? 07:42:59 No one replied. I thought this room was empty. 07:43:07 Well, I guess it isn't. 07:43:09 That's good :). 07:44:11 -!- jdz [~jdz@host33-109-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:44:26 "hello" isn't interesting, but if you had some tricky question about Common Lisp 07:44:51 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 07:45:18 You see, I don't even know Lisp, but I'm very interested in it. 07:45:24 Does anyone have any recommendations? 07:45:40 (For learning.) 07:45:44 Neurotron: Practical Common Lisp 07:45:54 and where the hell is minion? 07:46:35 Thanks. 07:46:37 -!- Neurotron [~Neuroneut@bb219-75-97-253.singnet.com.sg] has left #lisp 07:47:35 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.254.157.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:48:40 Ogedei [~user@p5DDB32D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:02 -!- Ogedei [~user@p5DDB32D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:51:34 marijnh [~user@p5DDB32D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:22 -!- marijnh is now known as marijn 07:52:29 -!- marijn is now known as marijnh 07:52:31 -!- marijnh is now known as marijnjh 07:56:58 forkrul [9240560a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.146.64.86.10] has joined #lisp 07:57:26 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:57:28 Hi everyone. Picked up Land of Lisp. Very interesting. Working through it slowly though. Interesting that it follows the game building approach 07:58:05 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-64-53.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:58:09 that's great 07:58:31 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:58:40 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-28-132.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:58:45 Saw a livecoder use it to produce music on Youtube a while back 07:58:51 looks immensely powerful 07:59:14 What Lisps do you commonly use? 08:00:59 <`3b`> this channel is about common lisp, sbcl, ccl, clisp, abcl and ecl are popular implementations here 08:01:38 sometimes emacs lisp. ^_^ 08:02:18 humasect: never 08:02:27 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.118.81.180] has joined #lisp 08:02:27 well, i mean never on topic 08:02:30 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.118.81.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:53 true!=) 08:03:02 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:03:02 <`3b`> http://xach.livejournal.com/271794.html has a recent survey of implementation popularity 08:03:42 ah clojure, i keep forgetting about this 08:03:46 <`3b`> not quite representative of this channel, but probably close 08:06:06 hmm no quicklisp 08:08:27 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-130-196.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:08:31 humasect: no quicklisp where? 08:09:11 thanks `3b` interesting stats 08:09:17 republican_devil [~g@pool-173-60-208-79.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:21 hi 08:09:30 anyone her ecl-irregexp? 08:09:35 stassats: in the survey found at the URL, sorry 08:09:40 use cl-irregexp? 08:09:48 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 08:10:06 humasect: i believe this survey was done for quicklisp 08:10:14 if I have a string say "blah blah -Xmx1024m blah blah" 08:10:19 how do I extract the 1024 08:10:31 which could in some other lines be 512 etc 08:10:52 <`3b`> remove-if-not 'numberp ? :p 08:11:17 (remove-if-not #'digit-char-p "blah blah -Xmx1024m blah blah") => "1024" 08:11:18 stassats: oh -- yes i remember this very thing. makes sense=) 08:11:29 republican_devil, in my perl-influenced word I'd say CL-PPCRE ... especially if you want to match the -Xmx in case other parameters have numbers, too 08:11:36 <`3b`> oh yeah, a test that works on characters would probably be good :p 08:13:03 -!- sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:40 http://www.cliki.net/cl-irregsexp 08:14:09 ah thats interesting 08:14:13 I can remove all text? 08:14:58 as they say, with regular expressions you will have two problems 08:15:17 lol 08:15:19 this looks like a command line, so parse it as a command line 08:17:51 I actually would like to scan 200 folders for a file and pick out that value, then echo back the name fo the folder and the vlue 08:17:54 otherwise: (ppcre:scan-to-strings "(?<=-Xmx)(\\d+)(?=m)" "blah blah -Xmx1024m blah blah") => 1024 08:18:36 so that finds, -Xmx takes eveything between it and the next m? 08:18:47 not everything 08:18:56 digits? 08:19:20 yes 08:19:36 wow that seems quite cool 08:19:49 easy to install ppcre? 08:20:00 I have clisp 08:20:07 with quicklisp, yes 08:20:13 and clisp is dull! 08:20:14 quicklisp? 08:20:20 enupten [~neptune@117.254.106.137] has joined #lisp 08:20:22 yes 08:20:48 find me minion and i'll tell you what it is 08:21:15 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:21:25 ah i see 08:21:39 so what cl implementation do you not find dull? 08:21:47 sbcl and clozure cl 08:21:57 republican_devil: don't worry, clisp is just fine. 08:22:02 k 08:22:15 thx +good night 08:22:19 -!- republican_devil [~g@pool-173-60-208-79.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:23:51 if clisp had better debugging support in slime, it wouldn't be so dull 08:25:11 stassats: i'm not using it, but why confuse a beginner who's just trying to get things done? let them figure out that there are better alternatives when they have the itch. 08:26:21 i believe the sooner you get a grip of what you will be using in the future, the better 08:27:00 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:27:19 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@85.22.93.138] has joined #lisp 08:27:34 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 08:30:00 the sbcl x86_64 binary doesn't run on my machine for some unknown reason, and I could have bootstrapped sbcl with clisp, and clisp doesn't need a lisp to compile it :) 08:30:24 bootstrapping sbcl with clisp is incredibly slow 08:30:43 -!- errkle [~user@c-71-56-115-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:30:48 stassats: but what if he's on Win32? 08:31:05 (re republican_devil) 08:31:10 ehu: he can always install linux!1!! 08:31:12 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.66.7.63.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 08:31:18 lol 08:31:20 ehu: clozure cl works find on win32, or so i hear 08:31:25 fine 08:31:25 can ECL bootstrap SBCL? If yes, then use that :P 08:31:37 (ECL can bootstrap from MSVC on win32) 08:31:58 why get something done if you can waste all your time trying out lisp implementations? 08:32:48 Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has joined #lisp 08:33:04 H4ns: exactly! 08:33:14 or maybe even create a new one? 08:33:28 ehu: right. the existing ones all suck! 08:36:34 -!- lonelyibex [~lonelyibe@58.20.105.166] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:36:54 lol 08:37:29 only one niche left, I fear, and mainly because CLISP got trapped by readline 08:37:35 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.66.7.63.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:38:23 ECL is decades older than ABCL, yet ECL has huge code churn. Can someone explain why it isn't more stable? wasn't it actually working all those years? 08:38:50 i think it was dormant for some time 08:39:00 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@201.82.192.69] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:39:20 murilasso [~murilasso@201.82.192.69] has joined #lisp 08:39:41 ehu: compare GCL, then... they branched off the same codebase 08:40:23 hmm. I guess that answers it indeed. 08:40:24 and perhaps because there are more large changes, and because the work is done by a single person mostly 08:40:28 thanks . 08:41:04 there's also the fact that ABCL doesn't have to deal with certain stuff that is the main source of *inherent* issues in ECL 08:41:16 Guthur [c743cb96@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.150] has joined #lisp 08:42:01 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:20 GC, ho! 08:43:32 *p_l|home* ponders if he could use VCGC in SBCL, using already existing scanning functions 08:48:32 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:49:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-44.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:55:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:58:38 Fare: for some reason the source registry is this at the time of make hello-using-asdf: CL_SOURCE_REGISTRY=/home/alendvai/workspace/xcvb/build//:/home/alendvai/workspace/xcvb: 08:58:44 I'm looking into it why 08:59:22 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:00:08 attila: hello is an example, probably being built with xcvb itself during testing, at which point you might want to xcvb ssr --source-registry ... 09:00:33 maybe should port the command-line to CLON if it becomes usable 09:03:53 Fare: I was thinking that commands like slave-builder could use a more programmatically easy serialization of arguments... instead of argv parsing, it could use read/write or somesuch... I don't have a clear design, it's just a vague idea that it might be worth cosidering 09:04:17 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-122-27.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:54 read/write? Not sure what you mean 09:06:09 the (:source-registry ...) syntax is available from the command-line 09:06:16 if that's what you want 09:06:59 Fare: instead of programmatically constructing a --human-readable-arguments argv, we could cl:write a form which the slave cl:read's 09:07:35 --source-registry '(:source-registry (:tree (:home "workspace" "xcvb" "build")) (:directory (:home "workspace/xcvb")) :inherit-configuration)' 09:07:59 is that what you want? 09:09:02 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-73-136.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:09:14 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-64-53.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:10:14 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.254.106.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:21 -!- jimmy_sjtu [~jimmy@218.193.190.132] has left #lisp 09:10:35 enupten [~neptune@117.254.106.137] has joined #lisp 09:11:31 Fare: this idea is unrelated to my problem with the tests. it's about how the master tells the slave what to do... currently the command goes through a human-friendly serialization process, but it's cumbersome to update this serialization when it's not really meant to be read/written by a human anyways 09:11:51 but again, it's just a random thought 09:13:13 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:03 -!- symbole [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:56 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.118.81.180] has joined #lisp 09:20:38 how would you have it do things? 09:20:44 it's sending SEXP. 09:20:48 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:53 what else would you send? 09:21:44 btw, do you have xcvb-ified stefil? Other systems? 09:22:34 Fare: I only have rfc2388-binary. the rest will come once I've extended xcvb to be able to slave-build from an sbcl started from a non-executable custom core 09:25:50 re master/slave serialization: it does send sexp, but part of the configuration, like :lisp-binary-path, goes through --arguments instead of sending one big sexp, preferrably a function call, that is executed in the slave without much argv parsing besides the recognizing of the slave-builder command 09:28:32 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:51 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.118.81.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:31 our setup is in a harsh conflict with what xcvb excpect... now I'm fighting with: invalid magic number in core: 0x10102464c457f should have been 0x5342434c. without knowing too much about who is trying to load what image and why 09:31:39 this is still make hello 09:31:46 why non-executable? 09:32:08 what's the advantage of a non-executable custom core as opposed to an executable one? 09:33:09 when I wrote cl-launch (the code of which was stolen by xcvb), I simplified things by always using an executable core if the implementation allows it. 09:33:31 This made my testing easier and avoided issues with keeping core and driver in sync 09:34:01 don't know, it's just the way it is currently. these cores are used to start slime sessions and I think it might be more trouble to have executable cores with the standard sbcl toplevel... although I'm probably wrong with this 09:34:31 so far as I know, an executable core can do no more no less than a non-executable one 09:34:42 hrm, I guess I should hack our env to use executable cores... that's probably the path of the least resistance 09:34:45 it's just that you don't run the risk of mismatching core and driver 09:35:03 *attila_lendvai* is convinced and opens the relevant files in hu.dwim.environment 09:35:20 I mean, if you insist on non-executable core, I'm sure you could convince cl-launch and/or xcvb to do it -- but it would be pain for no obvious gain. 09:36:28 what do you gain? 700kB per image? Big deal! 09:37:20 if you're 700kB short, you're probably not using multiple SBCL images, if you're using SBCL at all. 09:38:44 my one and only reason to go with non-executable cores is that our setup is currently based on them. now I've realized that it doesn't make much sense to stick to it... 09:39:15 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:39:40 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 09:39:47 Fare: is there any documented example of big-scale xcvb usage? Especially with both production and developement environments, without dumping new cores everytime 09:39:49 Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 09:44:22 I'm trying to set up building the service running on dwim.hu using xcvb. it has 90+ dependencies and builds into an executable core file with a custom toplevel function... I'll keep an eye on documenting my struggle... :) 09:45:43 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:46:04 :) 09:46:28 I'm also looking for it due to "big web service" angle, though mine will be slightly different I guess :D 09:46:51 p_l|home, no, but working on it. 09:47:01 coderweasel [~user@114.247.10.161] has joined #lisp 09:47:11 (and, after my yesterday's Mainframe marathon, one that looks rather mainframe-ish) 09:47:31 *Fare* is working on updating git repos for xcvb-ified things 09:47:46 -!- coderweasel [~user@114.247.10.161] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:51:14 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.198] has joined #lisp 09:56:31 I've pushed the xcvb changes into http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=ucw-rfc2388-binary;a=summary 09:56:46 I mean the changes needed to build it using xcvb 09:57:35 HG` [~HG@xdslei013.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:58:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-205.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:59:01 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.198.56] has joined #lisp 09:59:01 H4ns` [~user@pD4B9EAD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:03 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-25-78.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:42 btw, is CCL much faster in FASL loading than SBCL? 10:01:02 (I assume both can load concatenated fasls) 10:03:17 -!- H4ns [~user@p579F8E9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:03:25 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 10:03:45 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-79-97.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:04:05 jondro [~jedrek@chello089073233006.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 10:04:09 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslei013.osnanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:35 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-73-136.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:07:38 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@131.104.49.215] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:08:42 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:08:53 ouch dilemma: backport cffi xcvb things to pre-libfixposix branch or port qres to use libfixposix? 10:09:18 Fare: the latter 10:09:50 ok 10:10:32 slightly painful. Should I include libfixposix amongst my lisp libs or C libs? That is the question... 10:10:53 is it required during compilation or only during loading? 10:12:36 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0225.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:14:00 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:17:11 frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 10:18:13 In lisp is it convention to wrap global variable names with a * ? 10:18:20 like *name* ? 10:18:45 edlinde: *earmuffs* are a convention for specials (i.e. variables with dynamic scope) 10:19:00 constants usually are named +like-this+ 10:19:11 ah ok 10:19:25 its just that in the gentle intro book he doesn't use any of those conventions 10:19:30 there are no global lexical variables (at least not in standard, and they would be quite useless) 10:19:41 also our prof prefers using car/cdr ... while gentle talks more first/rest 10:19:43 whats better? 10:20:28 edlinde: use car/cdr if you're operating on trees, first/rest when operating on lists 10:20:49 first/rest work on more than just conses, but it's a matter of taste, most of the time. Though CAR/CDR are definitely more explicit in their meaning. 10:20:50 hmm why this distinction? 10:20:59 ok 10:21:28 I was told by the prof that first/rest gets frowned upon by most lispers :) 10:21:52 It's the other way around 10:21:54 edlinde: that is non-sense. there is no such thing as "most lispers" 10:22:12 CAR/CDR are kinda traditional, though I suspect quite a lot of those who frown would be frowning more the moment they learn that *old* CONS took four arguments :P 10:22:19 p_l|home: there is, but it's not short... 10:23:01 Xach: you mean the difference in fasl loading speed? 10:23:03 boscop_ [~boscop@f055159129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:23:24 p_l|home: no, install but don't load. 10:23:31 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055016054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:24:02 edlinde: also, CAR/CDR have one thing that first/second/third/.../rest don't have - the "nice" built-in chaining aka cadaddr thingy :D 10:24:38 yeah I noticed 10:25:07 no wonder its called lisp with names like that 10:25:12 ;) 10:25:27 more like stammer actually 10:25:27 if i find myself using C[DA]{2,}R, i know that i need to restructure my data. 10:30:47 psilord [~psilord@76.201.148.254] has joined #lisp 10:34:49 Fare: probably also during compilation because libfixposix stuff is grovelled 10:34:56 In the gentle intro, there is a command for documentation like... (documentation 'cons 'function).... I know this book could be old but it didn't work in Slime 10:35:21 how do you guys refer functions quickly from slime ? 10:35:34 edlinde: M-. 10:35:52 edlinde: it still works, it's just that it only works on functions with docstrings associated with them 10:36:09 M-. said edit definition of 10:36:09 edlinde: many compilers don't keep the docstrings of standard functions around (or never defined them to begin with) 10:36:20 ah ok 10:36:22 loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has joined #lisp 10:36:39 so how else can I do a quick reference to checkup what a function does etc? 10:36:50 M-. 10:36:58 describe sometimes gives interesting info 10:37:36 M-. only works if the source is available, so again, built-ins will only be there when you compiled your env from source 10:37:53 tcr: I just did a "Alt + ." and it says at the bottom "Edit definition of:" 10:37:59 is this the way it works? 10:38:03 Yes then enter a function name 10:38:10 I did enter cons 10:38:14 nothing came up 10:38:20 (see my last remark) 10:38:25 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 10:38:30 marijnjh: yep got that 10:38:30 edlinde: what you really want is hyperspec lookup 10:38:46 ok how do I do a hyperspec lookup? 10:38:53 C-c C-d h 10:38:54 edlinde: M-. will get you to the source of the function that your cursor points at. 10:39:21 tcr: thanks tcr that worked 10:39:28 ok cool 10:40:16 nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has joined #lisp 10:40:16 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 10:40:16 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 10:40:25 edlinde: most of the time you want to use M-. to go to your own functions 10:40:32 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:40:48 edlinde: or to the definition of a library function (but usually not stuff from CL) 10:41:06 ok 10:43:44 -!- Intensity [2nGOhrNbVB@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:45:34 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hwrjjndhdcolcbyh] has left #lisp 10:46:05 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has joined #lisp 10:46:05 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:47:02 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 10:47:59 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:49:55 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 10:49:55 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 10:49:55 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:54:09 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54:32 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:55:46 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-61-131-100.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:36 urandom__ [~user@p548A4125.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:16 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:03:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04:26 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:05:08 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 11:05:38 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-79-97.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:05:43 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:07:53 HG` [~HG@xdslei013.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:08:20 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-17-128.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:08:51 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:10:11 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.254.106.137] has quit [Quit: quitting...] 11:10:46 Hi! 11:11:24 I'm trying to get Core-Server running on Ubuntu 10.01 TLS with VirtualBox using *threaded* SBCL 10.0.40 11:11:51 I installed SBCL with apt-get without any special options. 11:11:59 But the install seems to be snafu 11:12:10 It gives all kinds of errors. 11:12:28 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-rwltqmfqwwvoncwm] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:13:00 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:13:27 MoALTz [~no@92.21.150.137] has joined #lisp 11:14:11 The usual answer is to install from the website and not from the package 11:14:59 Debian usually lags far behind the SBCL version, and there's no Ubuntu packager 11:15:27 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 11:20:18 dlowe: Ok, I' 11:20:26 ll try that then 11:22:47 hdurer_ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:08 -!- Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:27:31 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-130-196.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:28:26 andreas1 [~andreas@ip-109-42-34-208.web.vodafone.de] has joined #lisp 11:28:38 Hi! 11:29:01 -!- andreas1 is now known as andreas 11:29:23 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.66.7.63.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 11:29:45 chitech [~khuongdp@82.143.212.234] has joined #lisp 11:31:25 hello andreas 11:31:37 hi spiaggia. 11:33:59 For whom it might be relevant: I stopped my "field test" of sbcl threads on FreeBSD, after my blog was linked from a heavy traffic site. It blew the whole system, and the admin threw me out. I'm now running on Linux (and with a varnish cache in front). 11:34:43 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.66.7.63.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:35:34 SBCL, harming the internet industry since 1999 11:36:20 andreas: did it crash the kernel ? 11:37:32 andreas: sbcl still labels threads as "experimental" at least on freebsd. there you go. 11:38:10 fe[nl]ix: well, the box stopped responding to icmp echo requests. we didn't have console access, and there was nothing in the logs. 11:38:32 H4ns: Yup, I know. but I didn't expect it to take down the box, I expected the lisp process to crash. 11:38:50 blame freebsd instead 11:39:01 damn you, freebsd 11:39:04 Yeah, bad bad FreeBSD!! 11:39:06 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:39:12 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:39:22 (srsly, I should have installed a varnish in the first place) 11:39:59 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-102-34.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:40:00 andreas: i told you that. 11:40:33 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 11:40:56 H4ns: I know. I actually can't blame sbcl nor FreeBSD, all my fault. 11:41:02 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-165-15.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:41:37 andreas: so ists recht. shame on you! 11:41:38 :) 11:41:53 But with varnish, I'm now serving 7000 requests to the blog per second. That should do for now. 11:44:46 i read that you've tried freebsd 6.4. bwahaha. :p 11:45:15 Not my machine. :) 11:45:15 should've used 4.x, it's more stable 11:45:32 should it be #+clozure or #+ccl? 11:46:10 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-108-179.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:46:17 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:48:32 yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:48 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D4A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:15 let's say i have a (defun myfn (p1) ...) 11:49:36 how would i constrain p1 to be, e.g., only numbers? 11:49:58 (check-type p1 number) 11:50:16 satisfies ? 11:50:16 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:50:21 typep ? 11:51:44 -!- chp [3d87a5ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.135.165.174] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:52:21 yates: using check-type or assert usually makes sense when you want to fail on non-numbers, but it wouldn't fail immediately bu subsequent operations 11:52:33 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:13 so, if your functions is (defun myfun (p1) (+ p1 10)), it will fail on non-numbers by itself 11:53:36 or if you want to provide a pretty error message 11:53:39 well that relies on the non-generic-function nature of +, right? 11:54:07 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-199-204.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:54:23 no, it doesn't rely on anything 11:55:03 even if it was generic, it would fail if there was no applicable method 11:57:01 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 11:57:39 I always prefer a clean error message over some hard to figure out failure on a totally different level. 11:57:58 kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has joined #lisp 11:59:14 i'm not sure clean error message will facilitate that much in figuring why it occurred 11:59:21 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e194-178.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:59:29 but it's good for API 11:59:49 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:00:03 wish other functional languages had this "trace" feature from lisp 12:00:07 its awesome! :) 12:00:12 they don't? 12:00:29 I haven't seen an equivalent in ML 12:00:42 or Haskell.. though I haven't spent much time with Haskell 12:01:27 i believe it's ":trace function" in ghci 12:04:20 no, it's slightly different 12:05:37 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e194-178.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 12:05:48 carlocci [~nes@93.37.216.151] has joined #lisp 12:06:35 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.66.7.63.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 12:06:53 -!- scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:06:58 scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 12:08:03 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-17-128.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:08:24 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-13-65.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:11:31 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e194-178.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 12:13:21 -!- unkanon [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:16:48 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.66.7.63.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:16:58 _danb_` [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:18:30 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-42-90.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:19:42 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e194-178.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 12:20:33 Krystof [~csr21@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:21:01 Neurotron [~Neuroneut@bb219-75-97-253.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:21:04 Hello. 12:21:14 What are the two boolean variables in Common Lisp? 12:21:22 Neurotron: t and nil 12:21:34 Nil is false? 12:21:38 they're actually values, not variables. 12:21:40 yes. 12:21:45 enupten [~neptune@117.254.153.70] has joined #lisp 12:21:58 Neurotron: you learning lisp? 12:21:59 Variables. Ok, thanks a lot. 12:22:01 -!- _danb_` is now known as _danb_ 12:22:03 Yeah :P 12:22:05 It's quite fun. 12:22:08 Seriously cool. 12:22:59 gz_ [~gz@rrcs-208-125-251-170.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:23:03 -!- gz_ [~gz@rrcs-208-125-251-170.nys.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 12:23:12 Neurotron: what are you using it for 12:23:18 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:23:24 Neurotron: or just learning without a project? 12:23:47 dto: Without a project; for fun. But I heard it's quite useful for AI, is that true? 12:23:56 (insert rant about how nil, false and the empty list should be distinct entities...) 12:24:16 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-247-192.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:24:16 andreas: :) 12:24:24 Neurotron: yep. 12:24:30 Neurotron: it's useful for tons of things :) 12:24:42 I somehow love it's syntax. 12:24:46 Strangely. 12:24:49 It's so good. 12:24:51 what i really like is being able to tackle larger projects but still work as a single person 12:24:57 No stupid braces and all. 12:25:01 it works really well for "lone ranger" coders 12:25:09 dto: Is it scalable? 12:25:17 Neurotron: what do you mean? 12:25:23 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:45 Does it cope well with the needs growing bigger? 12:26:03 no i meant, more specifically on one issue like speed or etc. but yet 12:26:07 yes, i think it scales well. 12:26:13 jweiss_ [~jweiss@245.sub-174-252-184.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:15 it's designed for programming in the large 12:26:24 That's good and cool. 12:26:25 with documentation, packages to separate everything 12:26:38 How long have you used it? 12:26:44 jeti [~user@p54B470E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:45 since about 2006 12:26:59 4 Years? 12:27:03 That's cool. 12:28:23 i got into Emacs Lisp before that, so i have i'd say 5 or 6 years of total lisp experience. have a lot of learning still to do but: i can tell you CL has worked for all my tasks 12:28:30 Neurotron: i'm doing games. 12:28:54 Wow. That shows how diverse Common Lisp can be. 12:29:00 Neurotron: actually we have a whole #lispgames, we run periodic competitions and also , someone is looking to put together collaborative projects 12:29:03 I'm quite interested in AI. 12:29:32 I just came from the imperative camp; I used Java (but I'm not that experienced either). 12:29:40 Neurotron: i quiver to say such things in this room, but, my personal opinion of common lisp is that it's put together very well. 12:29:58 CL is immensely versatile. i use it for embedded stuff 12:30:09 Hun: How? 12:30:11 Well, remember that CL is a procedural language. :) 12:30:11 microcontrollers, drivers, hardware 12:30:22 Neurotron: i tried to make games for years but never got anywhere until I learned CL. 12:30:27 It just has good support for a functional programming style. 12:30:34 Zhivago: Seriously? 12:30:34 Neurotron: there's Embeddable Common Lisp 12:30:35 write the really hardwary-stuff in C and FFI out. do all interesting stuff in CL 12:30:43 dto: Oh I see. 12:30:50 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@245.sub-174-252-184.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:30:51 Neurotron: i think CL is considered "multi paradigm" 12:31:06 i.e. functional, object-oriented, procedural 12:31:11 dto: It's OO? 12:31:12 are available according to needs. 12:31:26 Neurotron: yes, CLOS (common lisp object system) is part of the language. 12:31:31 Ok brb. Gotta return to learning :P 12:31:35 :) 12:31:41 Neurotron: join #lispgames if you like 12:31:49 some other learners are there i think 12:31:59 Will tune in once in a while :) 12:32:02 ok :) 12:35:43 neurotron: Certainly -- CL's functions are procedures. 12:38:05 -!- jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:40 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:38:57 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e195-024.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 12:39:43 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e195-024.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Client Quit] 12:40:01 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 12:40:11 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-204-212.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:40:11 zomgbie_ [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 12:40:47 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-204-212.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:42:19 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-196.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:42:34 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-204-212.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:42:41 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-204-212.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:43:14 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-196.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:47:06 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-025-078.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:50 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:49:50 -!- loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:53:35 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-12-158.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:56:51 -!- Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:57:12 Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 12:57:40 -!- Kad_k_LaP is now known as LaPingvino 12:58:03 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:41 LiamH [~healy@129-2-135-218.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:00:55 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-15-150.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:03 fruity [4e92d3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.146.211.190] has joined #lisp 13:02:17 Guys, do even game consoles have a text mode interface? 13:02:38 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:03:28 fruity: This isn't a good place to discuss game consoles. 13:03:39 -!- fruity [4e92d3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.146.211.190] has left #lisp 13:04:14 fruity: Some do. 13:05:58 -!- superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: superflit] 13:07:37 -!- LaPingvino is now known as Kad_k_LaP 13:07:44 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 13:07:48 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-13-65.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:07:50 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-204-212.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:07:54 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-165-15.vologda.ru] has quit [Quit: I wish the toaster to be happy, too.] 13:08:08 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:08:19 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:08:35 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-27-155.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:09:03 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.105.29] has joined #lisp 13:14:15 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.66.7.63.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 13:14:25 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslei013.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:15:15 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-62.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 13:16:58 -!- forkrul [9240560a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.146.64.86.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:17:07 plage [~user@laptop-147-210-129-138.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 13:17:08 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:18:19 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:19:44 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.198] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:21:14 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-204-212.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:22:15 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.46] has joined #lisp 13:22:16 what the fucking fuck, flexi-streams is broken 13:22:33 homie: How so? 13:22:38 In what way? 13:22:38 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.66.7.63.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:23:16 external-formats ? is that a system-component ? 13:23:47 homie: It's not clear what the problem is from what you just said. Did you get an error message? What error message did you get? 13:23:49 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.11] has joined #lisp 13:24:33 not finding external-formats components error i got, and it hangs there, and everything else like cl-unicode 13:24:33 etc... depends on it or so 13:24:45 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-25-78.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:24:53 homie: could you paste the error to paste.lisp.org? 13:25:03 now even my clean 43 from tar.gz won't build cleanly as before 13:25:24 wait, i'm rebuilding it 13:25:47 i think the erro will happen again, as some hashtable thing was going on too 13:26:19 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-135-218.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:28:45 dlowe1 [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:30:15 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:30:32 -!- psilord [~psilord@76.201.148.254] has left #lisp 13:32:45 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-165-15.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:37:54 -!- Neurotron [~Neuroneut@bb219-75-97-253.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:39:43 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:42:16 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:52 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:23 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:47:15 the failure is appearing again with a clean build http://paste.lisp.org/+2HOM 13:48:05 homie: can you show more of the backtrace, please? 13:48:39 -!- ArtVandalae [~SuperUnkn@220-253-40-212.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:48:44 ok wait 13:51:08 tfb [~tfb@92.41.6.115.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:53:27 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:37 -!- jrockway [~jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:53:46 jrockway [~jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 13:54:21 here it is, i wasn't able to paste it to lisppaste, i used another http://pastie.org/1272207 13:54:24 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu241.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:54:42 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:51 -!- plage [~user@laptop-147-210-129-138.labri.fr] has left #lisp 13:57:20 on frame 24 13:57:53 sb-c::ir1-convert-lambda-body 13:58:33 :%source-name sb-c::item :%source-name list ? 13:58:35 homie: That is pretty strange. 13:58:57 homie: I have some random guesses for you to try, if you feel like it, but I don't know what the real problem is. 13:59:10 homie: You might want to rm -rf ~/.cache/common-lisp/ 13:59:16 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-82-129.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:59:36 i did already .cache .slime and already my /usr/lib/sbcl before i did the rebuild of sbcl 13:59:36 meandi [~meandi@dyndsl-178-142-056-196.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #lisp 13:59:46 i mean i rm'ed 14:00:01 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-27-155.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:00:15 homie: What operating system & architecture? 14:00:30 x86_32 and debian 14:00:44 or i386 if you want 14:00:52 with i686 libc 14:00:59 kernel 2.6.26-2-686 14:02:01 thoolihan [~Tim@209.221.3.130] has joined #lisp 14:02:06 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:02:40 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:02:55 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 14:03:46 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.254.153.70] has quit [Quit: quitting...] 14:04:18 my .sbclrc is like this http://pastie.org/1272224 14:04:25 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4125.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:04:33 hm, i should really compile all code with debug 2, restarting frames turns to be very convenient 14:06:12 homie: weird. i have a very similar setup, but i can build flexi-streams without any trouble. 14:06:16 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:06:35 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:14 TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has joined #lisp 14:07:59 hmmm 14:08:28 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:09:54 *stassats* thinks about separating developing and using environments 14:10:15 superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:04 there is no lists component of cl-unicode in my repo too 14:14:23 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:03 urandom__ [~user@p548A71ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:32 gz_ [~gz@189.sub-75-194-16.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:53 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:52 Joreji [~thomas@83-118.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:16:54 The #1 question asked on #lisp is "Anything interesting happening?" 14:17:12 #2 is "minion: lisppaste?" 14:17:21 heh 14:17:29 what are the counts? 14:17:41 I have never noticed that question much 14:17:42 117 and 98 14:17:49 I must not be spending enough time on #lisp 14:18:02 this is the bare rudiments of analysis so far 14:18:43 -!- gz_ [~gz@189.sub-75-194-16.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 14:18:48 -!- andreas [~andreas@ip-109-42-34-208.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:18:51 the rudest of rudiments 14:18:54 the top lisp-related one seems to be "which lisp?" 14:20:02 yeah I'm not filtering out nick-prefixed messages or anything 14:20:15 so, sbcl doesn't like the type declaration (lambda () (declare (special *special*) (type list *special*)) *special*) 14:20:23 but it accepts (lambda () (declare (special *special*)) (locally (declare (type list *special*)) *special*)) 14:21:02 -!- meandi [~meandi@dyndsl-178-142-056-196.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:21:05 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.6.115.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:21:38 _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.111.187] has joined #lisp 14:22:00 is that right? 14:22:28 i mean it's saying that *special* is unknown 14:22:38 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:22:43 meandi [~meandi@dyndsl-178-142-058-212.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #lisp 14:23:27 mejalx: yates u 14:23:30 err, sorry. 14:23:36 mega1: you seem to be pulling away. when does the contest end? 14:23:47 on the 27th 14:23:57 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has joined #lisp 14:24:01 How do you feel about your chances? 14:24:11 And what kind of car will you buy with the winnings? 14:24:49 I think it's only because of this: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=207&can=1&start=200 14:25:00 then one with a cdr at the backseat 14:25:10 my bot is much improved since the last time I submitted 14:25:34 chances are good 14:25:39 is the cl-ppcre official upstream http://bknr.net/svn/trunk/thirdparty/cl 14:25:39 -ppcre 14:26:09 Fare: no, it's weitz.de/cl-ppcre 14:26:40 stassats: looks like an issue with an issue with binding-forms and post-binding-lexenv stuff 14:27:28 ccl has the same issue 14:27:46 and ECL 14:28:16 that's funny :) 14:28:18 so, what does the standard say? i'm unable to find anything 14:29:37 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:53 Sounds like it doesn't notice that you're taking about the special *special* until after the declaration. 14:30:31 well, that's obvious, but is it right or wrong? 14:30:35 -!- chitech [~khuongdp@82.143.212.234] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:49 stassats: the issue in SBCL is that in (lambda (&optional (x y)) (declare (special y)) ...) the Y in the lambda-list must not be made special 14:31:51 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 14:32:34 so we handle special declarations only after the binding stuff is out of the way -- but the TYPE declaration is processed straight away 14:34:53 i'm pretty sure the form is legal 14:34:54 -!- thoolihan [~Tim@209.221.3.130] has left #lisp 14:35:06 TYPE is allowed as a free declaration, after all 14:36:06 ehh. paste gives proxy error 14:37:16 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:38:55 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:23 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:30 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:55 -!- prip [~foo@host243-124-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40:24 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:40:30 minion: paste 116232 14:40:31 Paste number 116232: "this should fix it, but haven't tested that anything else doesn't break" by nikodemus in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/116232 14:40:47 (for stassats) 14:42:29 yan_ was asking about mapcar for trees, here's my version http://paste.lisp.org/display/116233 , how bad is it? 14:42:39 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: away! away!] 14:42:55 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 14:43:41 Are lisp macros very important to understand? 14:43:51 do they come under advanced topics ? 14:44:23 macros are a serious part of lisp, but you can do a great many things w/out them. 14:44:28 java gets by 14:44:30 ;) 14:44:43 -!- saac [~saac@unaffiliated/saac] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:44:57 hmm its the last chapter in Gentle Intro.. I think I will take a break before I dive into it :) 14:45:12 was just wondering how important it is to know these macros 14:45:21 prip [~foo@host243-124-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:45:27 or is it just something you need if you want to extend lisp and add your own macros 14:45:32 if you don't understand macrology, you don't really understand lisp. 14:46:09 edlinde: some people say: if can do it without macros, don't use them 14:46:42 hmm two opposing arguments :) 14:46:48 no, not opposing 14:46:55 -!- TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has left #lisp 14:47:18 if you want to understand lisp, need to understand macros 14:47:21 well if I don't know macros I am not really understanding lisp, but then I should try as much as possible to avoid using macros? 14:47:26 :) 14:47:31 the rule is, if you can do it without a macro, you usually should. 14:47:40 ok 14:47:47 so this is more like a last-resort thing 14:47:47 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:11 like I have tried all possible things using Lisp functions and I couldn't come up with something so I use a macros? 14:48:13 well... in the beginning, that's probably true. 14:48:26 hmm 14:48:27 ok 14:48:46 but if you find yourself with some logic that needs to avoid having all the parameters evaluated, then you have to use a macro. 14:49:27 "last resort" is wrong. it's not that "omg, i can't do this without a macro, last resort!". it's "oh, hm. i actually can't do this without a macro -- so this is the right sort of problem to be solved with macros" 14:49:49 that's what I was trying to say, poorly. 14:50:06 ok 14:50:15 maybe I will come back to them later on then 14:50:26 you should probably read the chapter. 14:50:30 it's just lisp. 14:50:32 Its just that the Land of Lisp textbook has much more examples in between 14:50:37 dnm_ [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:47 topics that gentle doesn't cover in so much detail 14:50:47 edlinde: but if you're at the stage where "have tried all possible things using Lisp functions" seems like any part of a sensible solution, you need to keep learning :) 14:50:57 with trees, streams, building web servers :) 14:51:29 web servers weren't in vogue back then 14:51:30 ah I am just learning this stuff now... started like a day or so back 14:51:37 please to cure cancer now using lisp 14:51:59 *Fade* laughs 14:52:09 the sort of things you want to use macros for are a question of function application syntax and semantics vs. syntax and semantics you want to express -- not "is this a builtin function?" 14:52:13 stassats: yeah I understand gentle was written much earlier.. its still a really nice ref book 14:52:33 refreshing book? 14:52:42 reference 14:52:44 edlinde: are you also aware of pcl? 14:52:47 but yeah you can say refreshing 14:52:48 :) 14:52:55 yeah heard of it 14:52:56 it's not much of a reference 14:53:00 minion: tell edlinde about pcl-book 14:53:00 edlinde: please look at pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 14:53:09 stassats: gentle isn't? 14:53:26 the practical examples in PCL are very current usual type of tasks. 14:53:26 stassats: it seems to lay out all the lisp functions and explains their workings one by one 14:53:29 no, it's an introductory text 14:53:49 well I am a beginner... so I liked how it was laid out so clearly 14:54:03 edlinde: that's what Common Lisp HyperSpec does 14:54:17 hell, it even has an example of web programming. 14:54:18 well with PCL my prof was like.. this book isn't big on details .. 14:54:28 so I decided to read Gentle and then land of Lisp 14:54:38 we already established that your professor is wrong 14:54:39 will read PCL next or with Land of Lisp 14:54:51 stassats: yeah I know... 14:54:57 i'm currently reading let over lambda. quite nice code, but you have to ignore the `i am better than everybody else because i can grok macros' tone 14:55:37 stassats: this profs been using Lisp for a longgg time... so maybe he likes Paul Graham more :) 14:56:07 Hun: ccl now pushes :arm onto *features* on arm and slime picks it up, but you need HEAD of both 14:56:15 stassats: cool :) 14:56:31 ArtVandalae [~SuperUnkn@220-253-40-212.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 14:56:34 edlinde: funny, Paul Graham doesn't like Common Lisp 14:57:06 what does he like then? 14:57:10 Arc 14:57:14 his 100 year language 14:57:18 as in `finished in 100 years' 14:57:38 90 years left 14:57:40 ah well 14:57:54 i'm waiting! 14:57:58 though i also liked ACL 14:57:58 well he is still well-known in Lisp circles :) 14:58:04 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:06 maybe not here 14:58:09 :) 14:58:23 edlinde: which Lisp circles then? 14:58:24 he is known and ridiculed often here 14:58:27 PG's book "On Lisp" is still the best treatment of macros in a text book form. 14:58:48 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-43-9.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:58:51 may I ask how long you guys been coding in Lisp? 14:59:00 its just a honest question.. 14:59:11 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-82-129.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:59:27 4 years 14:59:30 3-4 years, FSVO coding 14:59:37 ok 15:00:16 so you guys got into Lisp pretty early and this prof of mine has started in the 60s 15:00:20 :) 15:00:26 so maybe he is a bit more old school 15:00:40 ~8 years with CL 15:00:58 coding ? 15:01:05 TDT [~user@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 15:01:29 i wouldn't hold someone, who only teaches and doesn't write any real code, as an authority 15:01:30 over 10 years for me, with major gaps 15:01:59 stassats: cmon man.. he has built some pretty good lisp applications 15:02:04 and *some* values of coding 15:02:14 I am pretty sure his lisp is really good 15:02:23 coz thats all he talks about 15:02:29 it's lines of code, not years of code you should be counting. and the number of people who _want_ to use his code, but don't _have-to_ 15:02:29 screenshot or it did not happen! 15:02:36 i bet his code would be ridiculed here 15:02:45 he reckons after lisp there should have not been a need to come up with any other language :) 15:02:48 common lisp starts to get really cool once you start to optimize your program. throw stuff around, change data structures, add memoization... all easy 15:03:24 edlinde: He reckons wrong. 15:03:41 edlinde: But I'm also pretty sure he is a good lisper :) 15:03:52 hehe I don't really care to be honest :) 15:04:03 *syntard* wants his code ridiculed 15:04:14 syntard: then show it 15:04:26 *ehu* thinks ASM should have been enough for everybody 15:04:27 wow that sounds like a challenge 15:04:28 :) 15:04:38 http://paste.lisp.org/display/116233 15:04:50 edlinde: common lisp really isn't suitable for every application there is to write. So if he truly reckons there should be nothing else then he is a bit of an idiot. 15:05:14 syntard: hahaha that is some funny code man! :) 15:05:27 syntard: what you called notate-depth is usually called flatten 15:05:41 oops, i misread 15:05:47 schmrkc: I'm wondering what applications you think CL is unsuited to. 15:05:57 you have flatten, and it does a different thing 15:06:25 flatten is from eopl 15:06:28 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-165-15.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:32 so is notate 15:06:41 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:07:14 Fade: About half a year ago I was writing a little thing for an AVR powered device. Pretty much it has an LCD display, two buttons, and a beeper. I find CL very unsuitable for this. 15:07:15 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 15:07:33 Fade: tinyAVR, obviously. 15:07:37 how memory constrained was it? 15:07:51 iirc 4kB 15:07:52 schmrkc: i use CL to generate code for similar devices. works nicely 15:08:10 schmrkc: well, in that case, you're pretty much relegated to the asm defined by the processor. 15:08:26 Fade: Yes. 15:08:29 unless you have a DSL that compiled to the asm in question. 15:08:32 stassats: those are util functions for mapcarec 15:08:43 see! ASM can do it all. ASM should be enough for everybody. 15:08:52 Fade: even it was a megaAVR with a bunch load of memory I'd still opt for blasting it up with a forth and not going the CL route. 15:08:59 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:09:11 Hun: That's nice. I prefer the more direct route of just writing asm. Easier on my head :) 15:09:33 and I have yet to see some CL that is suitable for real time applications. 15:09:37 how can you map two things whose structure does not match? i find the docstring of mapcarec way too vague 15:09:56 -!- superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: superflit] 15:10:00 jdz: ok 15:10:05 schmrkc: depends on what you do. sometimes, generating code is easier (this case: vhdl for fpgas). it would be pretty hard to sqeeze flipflops out in pure vhdl 15:10:16 syntard: was that an answer? 15:10:22 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:10:26 Hun: But then I'm doing something else than what I was doing ;) 15:10:33 true :) 15:11:21 but it's even more memory constrained than an avr8. you have to fit stuff in 18kbit and some flipflops 15:11:33 yum yum 15:11:34 jdz: oh, that was a question: easily you flatten all trees and then warp result back to match first tree's structure 15:13:07 what is it used for? 15:13:29 stassats: to mapcar on trees? 15:13:42 what is that used for? 15:14:02 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 15:14:04 -!- marijnjh [~user@p5DDB32D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 15:14:18 the whole thing seems to contrived and wouldn't be used for any real code 15:14:18 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:14:51 stassats: ok 15:15:09 -!- boscop_ is now known as boscop 15:15:52 not sure what's contrived about it, util functions are straightforward, mapcarec is like three lines 15:16:26 what is the use case? 15:16:45 once the tree is flat, you just mapcar it. 15:16:56 syntard: but it solves the problem that doesn't exists, so it's useless 15:16:59 Fade: yes 15:17:14 or do you have the code where you are using mapcarec? 15:17:47 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@CPE-65-31-225-242.new.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:17:52 stassats: i don't, yan_ was asking about recursive mapcar, so that's my version 15:18:27 i understand a recursive mapcar on trees of the same structure 15:18:49 stassats: it will work on same structure, but also on different structure 15:19:25 stassats: so I made it permissive 15:19:26 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-nxapsfzwurqgyaze] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:19:46 for the sake of permissiveness? 15:20:06 stassats: no, it's for free 15:20:23 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 15:20:58 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:21:47 permissive is easier than error-checking 15:21:51 in this case 15:22:25 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:26:38 syntard__ [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 15:26:55 -!- syntard_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 15:27:38 -!- syntard__ is now known as syntard_ 15:27:58 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 15:28:16 -!- syntard [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:28:18 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:13 syntard_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116233#1 15:30:20 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:31:41 stassats: nice :) 15:32:38 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:35:51 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:35:56 Intensity [R3EHaLBWO3@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 15:36:35 -!- starseek1r is now known as starseeker 15:36:39 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:36:56 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has joined #lisp 15:41:16 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:44:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:44:43 Bronsa [~bronsa@host137-183-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:46:21 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:46:25 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 15:48:17 BrandLeeJones_ [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:48:36 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:48:50 -!- BrandLeeJones_ [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has left #lisp 15:49:17 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:49:25 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.111.187] has left #lisp 15:53:02 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:53:07 enupten [~neptune@117.254.108.199] has joined #lisp 15:55:46 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:57:42 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:58:42 gz_ [~gz@197.sub-75-213-234.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 15:59:32 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-75-82.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:59:40 -!- gz_ [~gz@197.sub-75-213-234.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:43 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-43-9.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:03:11 Fare: up already? I've written a mail to xcvb-devel. I'll be back in about half an hour, and could keep on hacking if you can spare a minute or two to write up what you know about the issue... otherwise I'll get back to it on the weekend.. 16:04:16 -!- meandi [~meandi@dyndsl-178-142-058-212.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has left #lisp 16:05:31 *Fare* goes read email 16:05:48 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:56 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 16:06:10 m0wfo [~m0wfo@109.125.10.104] has joined #lisp 16:07:16 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:08:43 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 16:09:30 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:10:34 gz_ [~gz@104.sub-69-98-70.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:26 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-52F9C391.sub-75-213-155.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 16:14:08 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:14:36 -!- gz_ [~gz@104.sub-69-98-70.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14:59 *Fare* tries to update closer-mop and gets weird errors. 16:15:15 the validate-superclass protocol has changed or something? 16:16:40 attila_lendvai, weird. Running a recompiled XCVB, I get errors related to the source-registry too. 16:16:52 I must have broken XCVB in one of my ASDF updates, or so. 16:17:17 or broken cl-launch 16:19:24 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:34 stassats: did you mean to use ETYPECASE in map-tree? 16:19:58 no 16:20:06 indeed 16:20:11 reading spec always helps :) 16:20:58 but then again, you don't really need to check for the atom type 16:21:09 actually, was an issue with the latest cl-launch not loading asdf unless it needs to 16:21:13 gz_ [~gz@250.sub-75-194-118.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 16:21:38 works for me now 16:22:22 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-241-226.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:22:32 Senior Software Engineer - Clojure or LISP Cambridge, MA -- is that ITA? 16:22:51 until I hit a permission problem with (lack of) AOT configuration 16:23:04 I am trying to use ccl on centos 5.5 and I am getting /usr/local/unix/ccl/lx86cl64: /lib64/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by /usr/local/unix/ccl/lx86cl64). 16:23:12 How to rebuild CCL? 16:23:24 rebuild the lisp-kernel 16:23:24 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-101B5D6C.sub-75-213-212.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 16:23:28 cd ccl/lisp-kernel/linuxx8664 && make 16:23:45 I should build binaries on Debian 5.0 or something, I guess. 16:23:52 leo2007: #ccl is right behind you, but (rebuild-ccl :full t) does it for me 16:23:53 *attila_lendvai* updates cl-launch 16:24:30 leo2007: and the instructions are in the documentation 16:25:44 -!- gz_ [~gz@250.sub-75-194-118.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:26:16 rme: thanks. 16:26:53 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:26:57 jdz: In my case, ccl does not even go to the repl. 16:27:11 leo2007: and you checked the documentation? 16:27:44 jdz: the answer has been given. 16:27:56 the lisp kernel was stale wrt the libs on his system. 16:28:00 Fade: is it 42? 16:28:22 Fade: the answer was also in documentation 16:29:09 jewel, probably not 16:29:15 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@85.22.93.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:49 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:30:37 Fare: fyi, sympthoms are the same here after pulling the xcvb patch "Tweak version dependency" 16:31:48 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:32:31 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:32:36 gz_ [~gz@245.sub-75-213-174.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 16:34:01 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-C6545F3E.sub-75-194-57.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 16:34:28 attila_lendvai, hum. I was having issues with the latest cl-launch and weird interactions with debian's cl-launch. Now solved I hope... 16:35:23 Fare: give me a ping when it's pushed and I'll double check for you... :) 16:35:26 attila_lendvai, can you pull my change to runme.zsh? 16:37:04 after the runme change it failed the same way with my changes. now I try make test on head... 16:37:20 -!- gz_ [~gz@245.sub-75-213-174.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:37:20 oh, and comment the line with central-registry in setup.lisp -- it's obsolete with ASDF2 16:37:56 lemme check something in... 16:38:25 xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has joined #lisp 16:39:12 *attila_lendvai* wait's for a "done" 16:39:51 *Fare* runs "make test" 16:40:05 apparently, I haven't tested XCVB much while developing ASDF2 16:40:31 probably because it was working when I started, and I didn't touch XCVB much if at all during that time. 16:40:33 gz_ [~gz@154.sub-75-213-228.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:43 Fare: when a file component is a keyword, ASDF should not look the symbol-name up in the ASDF package, but first try a find-class as-is 16:41:01 Fare: http://paste.lisp.org/+2HOU 16:41:03 find-class on the keyword? 16:41:11 yes 16:41:49 hum. Is that portable? 16:41:51 I'd rather intern a class name in KEYWORD rather than ASDF 16:42:19 I tried sbcl, ccl and allegro and they accept it 16:42:47 clisp and ecl too 16:43:17 I don't see why they should reject it 16:43:33 -!- silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:43:37 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:43:46 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-D60B7D47.sub-75-213-228.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 16:43:50 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:44:14 how is keyword better than ASDF, though? 16:45:04 -!- gz_ [~gz@154.sub-75-213-228.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:45:32 I don't have to pepper the code with asdf:: 16:46:12 purely æsthetic 16:47:45 both are fishy for the same reason: it's a potential clash to define classes on someone else's symbols... 16:48:02 HG` [~HG@xdslei013.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:48:27 attila_lendvai: of course 16:49:15 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host137-183-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:51:31 gz_ [~gz@144.sub-75-213-196.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 16:52:28 -!- s0ng0ku [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:54:39 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-B75CD37D.sub-75-213-196.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 16:55:00 -!- Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:24 Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 16:56:05 -!- gz_ [~gz@144.sub-75-213-196.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:56:45 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:57:32 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:24 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:58:28 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:58:53 -!- Intensity [R3EHaLBWO3@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Quit: Intensity] 17:02:09 gz_ [~gz@92.sub-75-194-169.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 17:03:26 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:03:31 Intensity [tHQF89vu3z@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 17:04:24 -!- Intensity [tHQF89vu3z@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Client Quit] 17:04:43 (defclass #:æsthetic ...) ftw! 17:04:52 Intensity [0fWH4oszNg@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 17:05:03 *humasect* waits for sbcl to load 17:05:13 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:05:14 *cmm* has figured out what the compose key is for 17:05:14 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-F6FF1DD7.sub-75-194-169.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 17:06:00 pers [~user@118.sub-75-222-92.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 17:06:12 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 17:06:20 üņįîøņ 17:06:35 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-75-82.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:07:03 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-87-53.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:07:05 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.46] has joined #lisp 17:07:14 -!- gz_ [~gz@92.sub-75-194-169.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:07:35 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75408b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:38 gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:47 michael [~user@207.178.208.5] has joined #lisp 17:08:03 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host86-145-188-254.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:09:06 SCVirus [~SCVirus@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:23 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:09:43 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:09:48 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:09:52 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 17:10:24 yeah, that 17:10:41 is there a lisp channel for corporate drones? 17:12:32 syntard_: #lisp is it 17:12:41 Xach: ok :) 17:13:25 -!- benny [~benny@i577A348A.versanet.de] has left #lisp 17:15:44 *Fare* is confused by validate-superclass again 17:16:53 what's thaaat ? 17:17:15 do you want to override clos ? or mop ? 17:17:29 does it not already have ensure-class ?? 17:18:14 Fare: a reference which may help: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=LIVE%20hu.dwim.computed-class;a=headblob;f=/source/clos-mop.lisp 17:18:31 homie: google is your friend 17:18:44 (well, for now... :) 17:18:52 I want to have a STANDARD-CLASS named CONCRETE inherit from an ABSTRACT-CLASS named ABSTRACT, and am getting a message according to which STANDARD-CLASS and ABSTRACT-CLASS are incompatible, even though validate-superclass (find-class standard-class) (find-class abstract) returns t 17:19:28 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 17:19:29 is your validate-superclass from the right package? 17:19:47 I tried both ccl: and closer-mop: 17:19:49 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:01 it used to work before I (just) updated closer-mop 17:20:44 maybe updating closer-mop wasn't such a good idea - last time I tried was pain, too 17:21:07 gz_ [~gz@208.125.251.170] has joined #lisp 17:21:08 you say (validate-superclass (find-class standard-class) (find-class abstract)) shouldn't it be the other way around? 17:21:10 *attila_lendvai* pull closer-mop also and sees what comes in 17:21:15 i have updated my quicklisp too and my sbcl, was not a good idea too i think 17:21:21 lot's of stuff don't work 17:21:28 homie: Works for me. 17:22:41 *attila_lendvai* was basically at the head of closer-mop 17:22:54 iīll maybe cross bootstrap my sbcl again, from scratch or even delete the sources totally and untar my tar.gz files 17:22:54 to have a clean base.... 17:23:20 attila_lendvai, was problem in qres, not xcvb - for which I'm re-running tests with fixes to the asdf-backend for the stricter pathname handling in asdf2. 17:23:26 2.010 17:23:26 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:23:50 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:24:04 damn asdf maintainer, for breaking perfectly working (but completely non-portable) autogenerated .asd files. 17:24:07 i have no problems using the latest closer-mop 17:24:15 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:24:16 benny` [~benny@i577A25E5.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:24:28 Fare: ok, waiting for your "try now" signal... although I may need to leave any moment now. 17:25:35 I make typos and thinkos that slow down the fixing. 17:25:52 a static typer would help. 17:25:58 but I'm not gonna write it. 17:26:45 -!- hdurer_ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:26:45 hdurer_ [~holly@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has joined #lisp 17:27:09 Fare: no worries... I'll get back to this later anyways. just wanted to tell it beforehand that I may get lost in the eather any moment. 17:28:05 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:28:31 -!- benny` is now known as benny 17:30:40 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:30:43 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32:05 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:33:43 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0225.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:36:47 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:37:41 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:42:06 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:42:43 spcshpopr8tr [~user@c-71-231-165-31.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:00 *attila_lendvai* goes offline 17:43:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:44:28 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:07 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064141.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:46:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-44.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:47:18 This Land of Lisp. I was ordering it but it was out of stock. Now I am getting second thoughts. Anyone read it? Is it worth the cost? 17:47:51 schmrkc: did you see the example chapter? 17:49:00 sykopomp: I started looking at it but it seemed like a lot of images. 17:49:15 Looking at the source code for it right now. It seems a bit "meh". 17:49:50 It doesn't seem to offer that much that PAIP didn't cover. 17:50:02 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:27 schmrkc: You could get it as a sign of support for the author and for Lisp. 17:50:45 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:51:00 beach: Right. That's also something I'm thinking. I actually enjoyed SPELs :) 17:51:28 -!- michael [~user@207.178.208.5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:09 but there's so much other nice things to buy. 17:52:48 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 17:53:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-193.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:54:29 schmrkc: if you read, say, PCL, you'll get nothing from LoL learning-wise. and the code is a bit "meh" in places, indeed. the cartoons are nice, though 17:54:32 Okay, so how come sometimes when I evaluate something in SLIME that has a large (and/or deeply nested) list structure, after it prints I can't go to the last paren and use backward-sexp to jump te the beginning. 17:54:52 I get: Scan error: "Unbalanced parentheses", 172108, 1 17:55:04 But if I go to the beginning of the expression I can use forward-sexp to jump to the end. 17:55:09 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:55:32 Re Land of Lisp: if anyone knows someone who knows about Lisp *and* comic books, I'm looking for someone to review LoL for Code Quarterly. 17:56:11 what kind of comic books? the cultural references or the business of the medium itself? 17:56:40 there was a review on slashdot a few days ago 17:56:44 humasect: Someone who would be able to critique LoL as a comic book. 17:56:53 And as a Lisp book. 17:57:15 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 17:57:25 I.e. where does it fit in the genre--what style of comic is it, are there any obvious influences. 17:57:31 ah. i would not be able to find anything negative to say about anything anymore ~ 17:57:44 oh, that makes sense 17:57:48 critque doesn't have to be negative; just informed. 17:58:12 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-62.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:34 -!- pers [~user@118.sub-75-222-92.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:58:50 gigamonkey: What is Code Quarterly? and I really like the idea with critiqueing it from a very informed perspective. big up! 17:58:51 it is definitely not a comic book, there's just not enough comics for it to be one, imho, and the comics that are there are not interconnected enough to tell their own story. but I'm only halfway through skimming it, so imbw 17:59:04 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:59:09 schmrkc: http://www.codequarterly.com/ 17:59:24 cmm: that just shows why I need someone who knows what they're talking about. What would you call it? 17:59:29 cmm: There was some introduction chapter on the site. Does the book keep that story rolling or what gives? 18:00:07 gigamonkey: oh super cool. I'll bookmark this and check back. 18:00:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-118.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:14 gigamonkey: a textbook that has a lot of entertaining illustrations? :) 18:00:54 schmrkc: I haven't gotten to that chapter yet, I think 18:01:11 -!- ArtVandalae [~SuperUnkn@220-253-40-212.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:01:47 cmm: READ FASTER 18:01:55 MORE SPEED 18:01:58 minion: chant 18:01:58 MORE SPEED 18:02:34 schmrkc: you could buy the thing anyway, you know. the e-book version is pretty inexpensive, and it is a nice way to show the author your support and appreciation 18:02:57 cmm: I'll wait for the paper version to get back in stock at the book store :) 18:03:17 TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@rrcs-24-106-240-44.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:19 *schmrkc* lacks the pdf reader tablet thingy 18:03:51 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:03:52 -!- TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@rrcs-24-106-240-44.central.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:11 *cmm* uses a netbook. perhaps that's why he's on page 133 after almost a week 18:04:37 *cmm* goes offline 18:06:09 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-51-145-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:09 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-51-145-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:06:09 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 18:07:28 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 18:10:00 -!- s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:10:58 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:12:14 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:13:46 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:14:00 rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:39 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:16:53 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:17:58 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 18:18:07 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:18:28 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:20:38 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 18:20:46 -!- phrixos [~miar1@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:21:35 rpg [~rpg@fw.henn.dunn.pcspeed.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:39 phrixos [~miar1@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:23:11 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:23:54 -!- Guthur [c743cb96@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.150] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:24:06 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:24:12 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@201.82.192.69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:05 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 18:33:19 what do you call a variable at external scope? 18:33:22 a global variable? 18:33:32 -!- TDT [~user@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:33:44 how do you delete a global variable? 18:33:47 yates: What does external scope mean? 18:34:09 opposite of internal scope... :) 18:34:20 i meant outside scope 18:34:29 outermost? 18:34:53 a defvar'ed variable 18:34:54 you need wormholes for that 18:35:24 yates: What do you mean by delete? 18:35:31 a dynamic variable 18:35:48 Xach: are you being obtuse? 18:36:15 yates: No. You are using words that aren't defined in common lisp, so I'd like to find out what you mean by them so I can understand if you can get the effects you want. 18:36:24 2please to cure cancer now using lisp2 18:36:34 blah. bad window 18:36:42 snerk 18:36:45 dlowe1: not a palindrome 18:36:47 Xach: have you programmed in c++? 18:36:52 yates: No. 18:36:57 C? 18:37:21 yates: I'd prefer you describe the semantics you are looking for instead of saying "Well, it's like doing X in language Y." 18:37:26 yates: I've used C. 18:37:56 the equivalent of free(var) in C 18:38:04 yates: do you understand lexical scoping vs dynamic scoping? 18:38:07 yates: You don't do that. 18:38:25 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:38:32 sykopomp: i did a few months ago 18:38:36 i have forgotten 18:38:49 yates: If an object isn't referenced, it might be freed eventually by the garbage collector. 18:39:02 no malloc, so no free :) 18:39:15 you could say lisp is free of free. 18:39:16 i think you're confusing symbols and variables. 18:39:18 and no guarantee that anything will actually be collected, either. 18:39:28 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.254.108.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:39:34 if you want to get rid of a symbol, you can unintern it. 18:39:52 yates: If you have a reference to an object in a global variable, you can remove that reference by changing the value of the variable to something else, like nil. 18:40:01 you can makunbound a dynamic variable. 18:40:07 The symbol will still be there. Lurking. Just without representation in your lisp image 18:40:40 (or rather, the symbol...) 18:40:40 the situation is this: i'm playing around in a repl; i've defvar'ed a variabl; i'm now playing with "print"ing the var to a file. i'm now playing with "read"ing the file back into the same variable. i want the variable to be as if it had never have been defvar'ed when i read it back in in order to see if i'm missing anything 18:40:41 getting answers from #lisp == drinking from a fire hose. 18:40:51 yeah. 18:40:52 yes, i could just exit the repl (slime) and come back in but... 18:40:54 also, those dang symbols. 18:41:21 yates: You're confusing variables and symbols. 18:41:28 You can't undo declare special, right? 18:41:34 yates: just set it to nil and relax :) 18:42:47 actually i'm doing chap 2 of pcl 18:43:00 you should be proud 18:43:10 yates: To put it in C terms. Your symbol FOO is a pointer to a variable. FOO is not the variable itself. 18:43:54 schmrkc: ok, right, so i want to free the memory FOO is pointing to and set FOO to NULL 18:44:05 yates: well just (setf foo nil) 18:44:06 yates: just set it to nil. 18:44:21 yates: the garbage collector will take care of the other junk. 18:44:25 yates: forget about managing your own memory. 18:44:27 "uninterning" it isn't necessary? 18:44:36 just change the value. 18:44:55 the garbage collector may or may not eventually take care of freeing whatever memory isn't used anymore. 18:45:00 yates: uninterning operates on the symbol. It pretty much just removes it's name from a list of symbols. 18:45:17 schmrkc: i think i understand that now 18:45:48 yates: when you do like (defvar foo 'bar) FOO is added to a list of symbols. uninterning would remove it. But it is pretty pointless :) 18:45:54 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:45:57 vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-57-122.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:08 sensing my premature question, i ask anyway: if you unintern a symbol that is poitning toa variable, does lisp automagically free the memory associated with the variable? 18:46:24 yates: have you -ever- heard of garbage collection? 18:46:31 sykopomp: yes, i have 18:46:35 yates: if nothing else is referencing it, ya. 18:46:49 schmrkc: if nothing else is referencing it, -maybe-. 18:46:50 ;) 18:46:57 Well I say yes to make it easier. 18:47:13 you'll make it harder by making it 'easier'. 18:47:22 imo, at my current, immature level of understanding of lisp, this is its most undesirable trait 18:47:42 yates: If you change the value, the data will be collectable as well. 18:47:44 sykopomp: I don't think it matters that much really :) 18:47:52 unless your GC is republican 18:47:58 yates: don't you like the garbage collection? 18:48:10 i come from the embedded world where every byte can count, depending on the processor 18:48:13 yates: if you have no pointers to a piece of data, you have no reason to think you need it. You don't need to explicitly 'unbind' variables. 18:48:31 yates: it's not like malloc has predictable performance 18:48:40 sykopomp: you yourself said "maybe" 18:49:02 yates: that is correct. There's ways around that. 18:49:11 yates: For edge cases where every byte could count a whole garbage collecting lisp or any other GC language is probably not the best option.. But seldom C++ is the best option there either ;) 18:49:28 yates: also modern GC tends to do a very good job. 18:49:52 yates: if the GC doesn't think it needs to collect, it won't. 18:49:59 hm 18:50:01 how can I make build a stream from a string? 18:50:03 Are there any Lisp implementations that allow for manual GC? 18:50:18 how can I build a stream from a string?* (no make needed) 18:50:22 clhs with-input-from-string 18:50:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_in_f.htm 18:50:24 symbole_: is there a way to tell lisp "do gc now" at a point in runtime? 18:50:25 stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 18:50:31 -!- stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:34 love you stassats 18:50:37 wups - meant that for sykopomp 18:50:42 yates: Yes and no. 18:50:45 yates: It has nice things going on like (let ((x 1)) ....) and after the let there's no X and no 1. the memory is preserved. 18:50:46 yates: (sb-ext:gc) 18:50:47 Let's say I want to embed a Lisp. 18:51:00 stassats: does that always guarantee a full GC? 18:51:01 yates: but don't think that you're smarter than the GC 18:51:08 sykopomp: (sb-ext:gc :full t) 18:51:16 stassats: does -that- always guarantee it? 18:51:18 any forcing of the GC's hand will be non-portable. 18:51:23 symbole_: You could write a lisp without a GC sure. 18:51:31 stassats: you've got it backwards: don't think the gc is smarter than me 18:51:32 minion: trivial-garbage 18:51:33 trivial-garbage: trivial-garbage is a library that provides a portable API to finalizers, weak hash-tables and weak pointers. http://www.cliki.net/trivial-garbage 18:51:34 yates: the CL standard doesn't even mention garbage collection. 18:51:40 symbole_: a full blown common lisp seems a bit much for embedding. 18:51:45 yates: GC is pretty smart. 18:51:58 Fade: here you go 18:52:17 except for the times when it isn't 18:52:21 yates: modern GCs are very good at spreading collection load, organizing memory, etc. 18:52:33 yates: I am having a hard time to think of any popular programming language (other than C/C++/assembly) not having automatic memory handling :) 18:52:38 heh 18:52:42 you shouldn't worry about GC until you need too 18:52:53 -!- rpg [~rpg@fw.henn.dunn.pcspeed.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:52:59 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:53:01 yates: and some GCs for Lisp and similar languages are optimized to be very good at handling a -lot- of quick allocations/deallocations. 18:53:22 schmrkc: even C++ has some automatic memory handling 18:53:33 stassats: where? 18:53:35 silenius [~silenus@rrcs-64-183-24-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:50 stassats: Oh ok. I had no idea. Never done much C++. I know there is boehmgc and such for C/C++. 18:54:01 heck there's even a GC thing for gforth. 18:54:34 yates: e.g. smart pointers 18:55:07 you mean references? 18:55:07 murilasso [~murilasso@201.82.192.69] has joined #lisp 18:55:19 i mean... smart pointers 18:55:40 the GC in the lisps I use regularly are good enough that I never think about GC.. you'd be in some exceptional circumstances if garbage is a serious problem. 18:56:04 yates: the best way to avoid garbage collection issues is to just not allocate :) 18:56:11 "don't cons" 18:56:16 ^ 18:56:18 cons up front :p 18:56:30 or do what ITA does, yeah. 18:56:50 we don't do that 18:56:53 sykopomp: "let google handle it"? 18:57:14 doesn't ITA do some trick where they allocate a bunch of cons cells and just reuse those to avoid consing? 18:57:14 well, we do some consing up front, but would rather not be 18:57:21 not with cons cells 18:57:21 enupten [~neptune@117.254.156.190] has joined #lisp 18:57:29 ah gotcha 18:57:38 5-6 years ago we did 18:58:24 but that turned out to be a) too much of a pain in the ass, and b) slower (because SBCL has better optimizations in its CL list functions than the ones we had to reimplement had) 18:58:28 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:58:31 well, i program in a Farmer Bill sorta way: if you malloc it, you free it. if you new it, you delete it. gc makes me nervous 18:58:47 yates: that gets really tricky when you have any sort of complex datastructure 18:59:03 yates: Time to expand your mind. :) 18:59:04 yates: that's curable 18:59:06 like, two structures both pointing to the same object 18:59:07 yates: Learn to stop worrying and love the GC. 18:59:24 yates: gc is like having a maid! drop your dirty clothes on the floor, and they automatically get picked up! it's great! 18:59:27 yates: if GC is the biggest problem you have with lisp then all is well :) 18:59:27 foom: that's why i build a lifo queue structure for deleting/destroying objects in my last project 18:59:38 yates: the track record for garbage collection is signifigantly better than that for programmer memory management. 18:59:47 rme: I will now picture this maid wearing a nice uniform. 18:59:50 Fade: not this programmer 19:00:04 i'm extremely anal 19:00:14 i've written for 256-bytes of ram 19:00:16 so is the GC 19:00:18 schmrkc: now imagine the maid oddly resembles mccarthy. 19:00:21 (the old 8048) 19:00:26 sykopomp: ffffuuu- 19:00:34 the machine knows more about the program than you do. :) 19:00:41 yates: the GC is more anal than you are, and smarter, to boot. 19:00:56 yates: This might come as a shock to you. People have gigabytes of RAM. The year is 2010. 19:00:58 *Fade* shrugs 19:01:16 anyhow, if you're being serious insofar as you don't trust GC, CL is not the language for you. 19:01:21 shakshak [~user@41.239.199.239] has joined #lisp 19:01:30 schmrkc: there are other platforms that multicore x86s... 19:01:30 -!- gz_ [~gz@208.125.251.170] has left #lisp 19:01:33 even in 2010 19:01:38 s/that/than/ 19:01:43 yates: Yes. I am aware of this. and I wouldn't use lisp for those. 19:01:46 Except some gc's aren't quite sure if a register or stack value is a lisp object or some random crud. Yow! 19:01:47 but, you can do manual memory management in CL 19:01:51 my other platform is a multiprocessor Alpha. ;) 19:01:53 yates: even embedded systems are using garbage collection. 19:02:02 yates: I'm a big assembly and forth fan myself. 19:02:11 schmrkc: +1 19:02:15 just hack your implementation slightly, and here you go, shooting yourself in the foot 19:02:36 i love assembly myself 19:02:45 freaks 19:03:01 yates: use CL on more powerful machine to generate tight assembly for target? ;P 19:03:08 i delegate the love of assembly to my compiler 19:03:16 (incf p_l|home) 19:03:26 yates: It all depends on what you are actually doing and what platform you are targetting, of course. assembly isn't what I would pick for my latest backgammon client project. talking to some server over the network, gtk, keeping objects in memory etc. 19:03:38 of course 19:03:42 yates: and I'm not restricted to 10 bytes of memory either. So I like my GC. 19:03:57 yes, i'm being a bit obstinate.. 19:04:02 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:04:10 i probably wouldn't have used lisp on my 8048 if it was around then 19:04:28 it does make me uncomfortable, even so 19:04:43 you'll get over it. 19:04:45 *rme* notes that nobody took his flame bait 19:04:46 or die trying 19:04:50 what if we were talking about multi-megabyte arrays instead of just bytes? 19:05:19 if gc didn't do his job right, you could run out of memory in a hurry 19:05:26 I seem to recall lisp running just fine on my old 1MB RAM amiga 500. 19:05:28 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:05:29 the more garbage you have, the faster your GC will be 19:05:34 rme: there's only so much confusion you can fit in any one channel. :) 19:06:07 yates: for running stuff in a small memory world you wouldn't actually dump a whole lisp with gc and all of common lisp into the box. 19:06:14 yates: I draw PNG and GIF images into memory and then write them to disk 10,000 times per day. The garbage collector takes care of everything for me. 19:06:27 And remember anyways that the standard Common Lisp doesn't predicate any specific memory management model. You could very well have an implementation without a garbage collector, but with a sys:free function instead. 19:06:30 If the gc didn't work, it would have a problem. 19:06:51 so let me get this straight: no one has every had a memory problem related to problems with gc? 19:06:56 in lisp? 19:06:57 *schmrkc* thinks it is way more common for C/C++ code to run out of memory due to faulty memory handling than a sane GC. 19:07:02 yates: never. 19:07:13 yates: nope, nope. 19:07:34 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:07:39 I've had problems with shitty reference counters, though. 19:07:42 And there are real time garbage collection algorithm (almost as old as the world actually). 19:07:48 *syntard_* wonders why doesn't gc collect stack overflow 19:07:52 then only problem i had was running out of heap because of a semi-space copying collector 19:07:59 (I don't know if any popular Lisp implementation actually uses a reference counter) 19:08:01 yates: ericsson dump erlang with its GC on machines that need to keep running and running. there's no room for memory problems. That's why they use a GC instead of doing it by hand. 19:08:33 schmrkc: i used to work for them. but never with erlang 19:08:39 TDT [~user@dhcpw80ffc7d3.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 19:08:40 *schmrkc* has run out of heap. But that developer malfunction. 19:08:46 that was developer malfunction. 19:08:49 yeah, usually 19:08:50 i've had python (language) systems lose their shit on me, but I've never had a problem with GC in a lisp environment. 19:08:51 creating a list of too many objects. 19:08:58 8GB all gone :D 19:09:07 schmrkc: it's worse on 32 bits 19:09:20 stassats: It is? How so? 19:09:31 address space limits 19:09:33 stassats: are you referring to the problem PAE solved? 19:09:39 aha 19:09:45 I don't think PAE resolved problems. 19:09:47 did PAE solve anything? 19:10:00 yes 19:10:09 can't remember processes ever owning more than 4GB even on a PAE system. 19:10:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension 19:10:50 I think it still limits you to 4GB 19:10:58 *schmrkc* could be the wrong. 19:11:15 rpg [~rpg@fw.henn.dunn.pcspeed.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:23 PAE allows more than 4GB on a system. Not per process. 19:11:23 yates: ericsson sounds like fun work :) :) 19:12:00 schmrkc: the virtual memory space is still imited to 32 bits - maybe that's what you're thinking? 19:12:25 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:12:26 schmrkc: yes, i enjoyed it. started out porting the AMPS part of CDMA to their new chipset 19:12:30 anyway, who needs PAE when you can have 64-bit 19:12:40 stassats: yeah, it's pretty much moot ow 19:12:44 s/ow/now/ 19:12:56 the only reason i run 32-bit is because i only have 1.5G of memory 19:13:08 stassats: frugal, eh? :) 19:13:22 the only reason I run 64-bit is the extra gp registers on amd64 19:13:27 i felt all fat dumb and happy when i got my current 4G 19:13:31 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:13:40 gp? 19:13:45 larger fixnums are good too 19:13:52 *p_l|home* ran 64bit as soon as he got a 64-bit capable machine 19:13:52 general purpose? 19:13:58 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 19:14:04 yates: GPR - General Purpose Registr 19:14:07 *Register 19:14:20 oh, right 19:14:43 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:15:38 -!- rpg [~rpg@fw.henn.dunn.pcspeed.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:15:41 i haven't noticed much of improvement having more registers, maybe because my CPU is pretty old 19:16:05 have mercy on me, #lisp'en: i've been concerned about memory since 1978 (my first programming class) - old habits die hard... 19:16:27 these days cache lines are way more important than memory 19:16:42 well, having GC doesn't exempt you fully from thinking about memory 19:16:57 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:17:18 You get to move on to a new and hopefully more interesting set of problems. 19:17:20 I personally think GC makes one think even more, but not necessarily consciously - good habits tend to work together with GC 19:17:34 Xach: good attitude - i should adopt it! 19:18:00 ok back to pcl chap 2... 19:18:10 with GC you can always come back to the problem and optimize it more 19:18:21 n00b question: what kind of gc do most CL interpreters use these days out of interest? 19:18:23 or optimize your GC more, whatever you prefer 19:18:44 m0wfo: i don't know about interpreters, but some use generational garbage collectors 19:19:15 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:19:47 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 19:19:56 like SBCL or CCL 19:20:00 rpg [~rpg@fw.henn.dunn.pcspeed.com] has joined #lisp 19:21:22 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:25 sykopomp: I really wish I would've discovered Chillax before I wrote my own CouchDB library, because mine is remarkably similar to yours (although w/o your nice protocol style). 19:23:20 austinh: I'd love to talk about ideas, then. Chillax is pretty minimalist still, since I'm just slowly building up bindings according to what I need. 19:23:46 sykopomp: I even had the same idea for the handle-request macro, with the case-like status codes. 19:23:54 austinh: hah. 19:23:58 austinh: which one's your library? 19:24:20 sykopomp: But, I added in support for declarations, so I could ignore result-var if necessary. 19:24:40 sykopomp: I haven't published it. It's a work-in-progress along side the code that is using it. 19:25:09 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 19:25:24 sykopomp: I didn't see it in your code, but I may have missed it, are you handling utf-8 characters properly outside of the ASCII set, with regards to content-length? 19:25:37 drakma doesn't, by default 19:26:20 attila_lendvai, make test now passes for me. Committed and pushed changes to asdf, cl-launch, xcvb. 19:27:27 austinh: I probably don't, then. 19:28:43 sykopomp: drakma will send a content-length of 8 for Jalapeņo, and CouchDB will complain of bad UTF-8 19:29:00 aha 19:29:08 what did you do to handle that? 19:29:11 sykopomp: I use babel to get the correct length and send it 19:30:04 sykopomp: I saw another library that was escaping everything outside the ASCII set (or changing those characters to \u0330--whatever that is called), but that seems silly since CouchDB speaks UTF-8 19:30:35 hm 19:30:38 sykopomp: flexi-streams can also tell you the correct length, but babel was much faster 19:30:53 I was about to ask, since flexi-streams is already a drakma dependency. 19:31:12 austinh: have you written a design doc API yet? 19:31:25 I keep starting work on one, and feeling dissatisfied with it. 19:31:36 I've also seen that flexi-streams is not especially fast at encoding and decoding text. 19:31:40 even though just using straight-up documents feels like too much work. 19:32:12 *sykopomp* has gone through several failed versions of defdesigndoc 19:32:37 sykopomp: no, I only have the bare minimum for design-docs. I'm building it as I go, and it's all been done over the past couple weeks while I am fleshing out the larger project that uses it. 19:34:00 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:34:02 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:34:18 well, if you come up with any ideas, let me know. 19:34:20 sykopomp: I am kind of getting buried in layers of abstraction right now, and upon reading your protocol blog post, I'm going to reconsider how I'm setting some of this stuff up. 19:34:43 great! 19:34:53 let me know if you release it! 19:35:20 sykopomp: I won't be surprised if I end up switching to yours--although, that's the last thing I want to think about right now. 19:35:48 austinh: did you also write a view server, btw? 19:36:13 sykopomp: No. I'm sticking with the default one until I know I need something better. 19:36:13 Hey all, I'm not sure about how to interact with sockets with sbcl 19:36:21 minion: usocket? 19:36:22 usocket: usocket is an MIT-licensed sockets networking library providing a portability layer encapsulating implementation specific sockets programming details. http://www.cliki.net/usocket 19:36:27 austinh: I highly recommend having a native lisp one. It's quite fantastic. 19:36:30 In the slime repl I don't seem to have any completions for sb* other than sbinit 19:36:45 austinh: there's much to be said about having the full power of a CL when writing views. 19:36:51 stassats: Checking it out now :) 19:37:25 you shouldn't use sb-bsd-sockets directly unless you need to 19:37:32 Jesus quicklisp is nice 19:37:38 Why is that? 19:37:46 sykopomp: It sounds like it would be fun and nice to have, but I have a lot of other code to write first. 19:37:47 because it's not very portable 19:37:55 Across lisp implementations? 19:38:05 Or across platforms? 19:38:13 the former 19:38:42 Interesting. I've never used a CL other than SBCL - I've heard pretty amazing things about Allegro, but I'm not sure why I'd use some other one. 19:38:48 minion: CMUCL 19:38:49 CMUCL: CMUCL is a high-performance, free (mostly Public Domain) Common Lisp implementation that aims towards ANSI compatibility and runs on a number of Unix platforms - including Linux/ix86, Linux/Alpha, FreeBSD/ix86, NetBSD/ix86, OpenBSD/ix86, Solaris/SPARC, HP-UX/HPPA, and IRIX/MIPS - though not all of these ports are current. http://www.cliki.net/CMUCL 19:39:18 there isn't much reasons to use CMUCL nowadays 19:39:19 austinh: https://github.com/sykopomp/chillax/blob/master/doc/yodawg-databases.png also hilarious. 19:39:29 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:39:31 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-202-208.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:39:31 austinh: pay close attention to the map function. 19:39:35 seangrov`: You might look at CCL. 19:39:59 minion: ccl 19:39:59 ccl: CCL is the Clozure Common Lisp implementation. http://www.cliki.net/ccl 19:40:11 and using sb-bsd-sockets is also portable to ECL 19:40:34 But is it portable to clisp? (: 19:40:40 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-202-208.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:29 and what about using iolib? :D 19:41:42 or the fact that usocket afaik doesn't support v6 19:41:48 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-241-226.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:41:58 not a problem for me 19:41:59 Heh, just looking to make a very basic interface to my text adventure game 19:42:04 Then build out a toy http server 19:42:12 ipv6 is probably a bit later 19:42:25 where "a bit" is a euphemism for "likely never" 19:42:58 what about using a real http server? 19:43:03 minion: hunchentoot? 19:43:03 hunchentoot: Hunchentoot is a robust and easy to use HTTP server. http://www.cliki.net/hunchentoot 19:43:26 Yeah, I've used hunchentoot before, quite nice 19:43:46 Just want to get my hands dirty at some lower levels with CL 19:44:10 then make hunchentoot 3x faster 19:44:19 -!- rpg [~rpg@fw.henn.dunn.pcspeed.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:28 *seangrov`* adds that right at the top of this TODO list 19:44:43 i don't think that would be too hard once you understand its code 19:46:07 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-196-228.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 19:46:30 didn't fusss optimize hunchentoot once by removing lots of different code paths etc? 19:47:44 stassats: why do you imply it's too slow now? 19:47:56 i imply it not too fast 19:47:59 it's 19:48:03 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 19:48:08 not that it matters 19:49:04 It seems from the lispworks docs that declare is optional? 19:49:07 stassats: in CommonQt, in qlist.lisp, qlist-element-type: perhaps we should look for * in element-type and not type, or am I missing something? 19:49:12 how useful, a debugger consisting solely of # 19:49:16 That is, if I see it in some code, but leave it out in mine, it should work fine? 19:50:17 ... I don't need to unmarshal any QList right now but I'm trying to make it unmarshal QList (i.e. QObjectList) 19:50:55 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:51:16 minion: terpri 19:51:17 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``terpri''. 19:51:19 ivan4th: should it matter? 19:51:21 clhs terpri 19:51:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_terpri.htm 19:51:26 ah, thanks 19:52:20 stassats: well, the way it is now it will think that int* is scalar and not a pointer... 19:52:51 that's because :end 1 is there for some unknown reason 19:53:21 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:53:47 with :end 1 it will only match "*QList<...>" with doesn't seem to make sense 19:54:05 it's not even QList<...>* 19:54:10 right, that's because :end 1 shouldn't be there 19:55:07 star-p makes it use sw_qlist_void_at instead of sw_qlist_scalar_at, so it seems to apply to the element type 19:55:37 the code just wasn't used to unmarshal pointer lists yet 19:55:48 pushing a fix 19:56:22 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:56:28 thanks... 19:57:02 clhs unwind-protect 19:57:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_unwind.htm 19:57:21 seangrov`: you know that you can use C-c C-d h in slime for that? 19:57:45 Wow, very cool 19:58:07 Please excuse my lack of shame 19:58:26 is that shame-lessp shamelessp? 19:58:48 shame-less-p 20:01:45 *Xach* wonders how many defpackage forms include :documentation options 20:04:23 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:40 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 20:05:38 Xach: 90% of mine. 20:06:44 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 20:07:04 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:10:17 -!- TDT [~user@dhcpw80ffc7d3.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:10:51 I think I've heard that whenever I'm looking at a stack trace/error in slime, that I can actually edit the stack frame and try again? 20:10:54 Is that correct? 20:12:38 seangrov`: slime gives you options 20:13:00 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:24 syntard_: Yes, but they're all about exiting to different levels, not recovering and continuing 20:15:43 seangrov`: if you want your code to restart, try restart-case 20:16:08 seangrov`: "whenever" is not it. :) 20:16:15 seangrov`: I think support for that varies by lisp. If SBCL can do it, I'm not sure how. 20:16:33 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 20:16:58 seangrov`: with point on top of a stack frame, "e" should eval lisp forms in that frame 20:17:10 given that your debug optimization value for that frame is high enough 20:17:15 should let you setf variables 20:17:15 seangrov`: also, it has to be from a continuable error, not from an error. 20:17:20 clhs cerror 20:17:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cerror.htm 20:17:36 cerror could be used a lot more than it is AFAIK. 20:17:53 Well, I setup a basic remote repl a la http://community.livejournal.com/lisp/38356.html 20:18:06 Or one could say that error should signal continuable error and we should have non-continuable-error for error. 20:18:16 but then I eval'd an incorrect form, which came up on my slime debug console 20:18:47 I thought I could fix the error and retry the frame, but there was no continue - I suppose that means that the error didn't signal it was continuable? 20:19:03 seangrov`: have you read chapter 25? 20:19:24 erm... of what? 20:20:08 of CLHS of course. 20:20:10 clhs +++ 20:20:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_pl_plp.htm 20:20:17 and all there is around it. 20:20:23 Also have a look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/18280 20:20:58 and http://paste.lisp.org/display/57465 20:21:40 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 20:22:17 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:23:21 i try to build stumpwm with clisp, but it won't build and here's why: /usr/pkg/bin/clisp -K full -on-error exit ./make-image.lisp and /usr/pkg/bin/clisp: /usr/pkg/lib/clisp/full/lisp.run: No such file or directory 20:24:04 pr: You might get better support in #stumpwm 20:24:40 yeah, but traffic is higher in #lisp and it seems like almost nobody in there still uses clisp, heh 20:24:48 seems like a clisp issue to me 20:24:53 no one uses clisp anywhere. 20:24:57 cept Patzy I guess. 20:25:18 *syntard_* uses ccl where sbcl hasn't gone 20:26:35 i see 20:27:56 i can't use sbcl on this machine (because it's not supported, though it probably wouldn't require that many changes to makefiles and stuff, i still wouldn't know where to begin) but i didn't try ccl 20:28:34 when you (defun foo..), are you interning a symbol named foo containing the function ? 20:28:34 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:28:46 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 20:28:49 yates: the symbol interning is done by the reader 20:29:10 and typing is done by the keyboard :) 20:29:32 syntard_: not all of it. There are keyboard macros. 20:29:48 true 20:30:27 in (defun foo..), is a symbol interned named foo containing the defined function ? 20:30:35 No. 20:30:41 Symbols don't contain functions. 20:30:52 for some loose value of "containing" 20:31:07 Functions may be bound to the function slot of symbols. 20:31:29 But for example: (flet ((f (x) (1+ x))) (symbol-function 'f)) --> NIL 20:31:43 in (defun foo..), is a symbol interned named foo and the defined function bound to its function slot? 20:32:09 err, actually it signals an undefined function error... 20:32:20 yates: yes. 20:32:34 ok, thank you. 20:33:06 i'm trying to wrap my head around "designators" 20:33:22 e.g., (remove-if-not #'evenp 20:33:25 ... 20:33:32 yates: this is actually quite simple. In some contexts, you use other objects to refer to the object you want to refer to. 20:33:45 yates: designators are "names". 20:33:53 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:34:07 Usually, there's a direct conversion from the designator to the object refered. Sometimes it's not so direct. 20:34:35 well, why don't you just say (remove-fnot 'evenp ...)? 20:34:41 when I have swank:*use-dedicated-output-stream* set to t, slime fails to connect to swank server if they are running on different machines. Any fix? 20:34:46 s/remove-fnot/remove-if-not/ 20:34:46 A simple case is the string designator: the character #\A the string "A" and the symbol a are designators for the string "A". 20:35:26 what's the difference between 'evenp and #'evenp? 20:35:35 gigamonkey: Is your recent talk posted somewhere? 20:35:40 'evenp is a symbol, right? 20:35:41 In the case of APPLY (an all the functions that use it such as remove-if-not or mapcar), a symbol designate the function bound to its function slot. 20:35:54 No. 'evenp is a list of two elements. 20:36:01 'evenp is (quote evenp). 20:36:18 evenp is a symbol named "EVENP". "EVENP" is a string of five characters. 20:36:20 yates: Also that function you define. The function object can be garbage collected and you get your memory back ;) 20:36:29 #\E is the first and third character of the string "EVENP". 20:37:02 ok, fixed. 20:37:44 yates: if I say your cat ate a mouse, I don't write your 'cat ate a 'mouse, right? 20:38:04 But if the mouse was called "cat", I put quotes! 20:38:48 If you write 'evenp, then you have to say that the result of evaluating 'evenp is a symbol. 20:39:14 that last sentence i understand and agree with 20:39:15 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 20:39:28 that was my point 20:39:29 But since sometimes we want to talk of data, and not always of code being evaluated, it becomes too abiguous if you elide this "the result of evaluating". 20:40:16 isn't the second argument in remove-if-not evaluated? 20:40:19 fragione [~fragione@bzq-79-177-247-68.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:26 i mean the first argument... 20:40:36 the "test" 20:40:58 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:04 how can I write filter using remove-if? 20:41:14 Anyways, the point about function designators, is that a symbol, if it designates a function, always designates a global function, stored in its function slot. Lexical functions defined by flet or labels are not stored there, so within a flet or labels form, (function f) and (quote f) don't designate the same function, because (quote f) designate the result of (symbol-function (quote f)), which is different from (function f) which 20:41:14 designate the lexical function. 20:41:20 kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:28 fragione: what do you want filter to do? 20:41:52 (remove-if-not (function evenp) '(1 2 3 4)) --> (2 4) 20:42:01 yates: what's your question? 20:42:29 yes, what pjb said... but how can i write it myself? 20:42:38 what's the difference in the evaluation of 'evenp versus #'evenp? 20:42:50 'evenp is a symbol - you've just stated that 20:43:03 #'evenp is a.. function? 20:43:14 the function bound to the function slot of the symbol evenp? 20:44:24 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 20:45:22 clhs #' 20:45:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhb.htm 20:45:27 -!- syntard_ [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:33 i tried: (defun filter (p l) (remove-if (lambda (x) (not (p x))) l)) 20:45:45 #'evenp is the function object. You can pass it to funcall and apply. (funcall #'evenp foo). 'evenp is the symbol which contains #'evenp as one of its slots. I think :) 20:45:50 syntard_ [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 20:46:06 yates: yes, I know it's not obvious. #'x reads as (function x). Personnaly I prefer to write (function x), so that it's obvious it's a function. 20:46:18 that is returned when its evaluated. 20:46:47 fragione: this works too. 20:47:02 pjb: it doesn't. 20:47:14 coyo|pingout [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:18 i get a compiler warning that p is undefined 20:47:25 Oh right, you lack a funcall. 20:47:28 yates: (defun f (x) (evenp x)) (flet ((f (x) (oddp x))) (list (funcall #'f 2) (funcall 'f 2))) => (nil t) 20:47:29 fragione: Common Lisp is a Lisp-2 20:47:33 Krystof [~csr21@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:35 fragione: (defun filter (p l) (remove-if (lambda (x) (not (funcall p x))) l)) 20:47:46 why not remove-if-not? 20:47:57 Since p is a variable (a parameter) you must use apply or funcall (which uses apply) to call it. 20:48:01 no reason... i'm just learning, and tried writing it myself 20:48:14 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:48:25 Now, (filter (function evenp) '(1 2 3 4)) --> (2 4) 20:48:52 thanks ray! 20:50:10 but why does something like (p x) work in the repl, but not in a function definition? 20:50:11 -!- bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:50:37 the clhs for function says this: "The value of function is the functional value of name ..." 20:50:50 fragione: Common Lisp expects symbols in the CAR of an sexpr to be names bound in the function namespace/subenv. 20:51:05 is that different from this statement: The value of function is the functional value of the symbol 'name'..." 20:51:06 fragione: that means, you can have something like this in CL: (defun frob (list) (list list 'list)) 20:51:31 yates: Have you read any lisp books yet? 20:51:42 fragione: where the first LIST is actually the function LIST, the second is the -variable- that was passed into the function, and the third evaluates to the symbol LIST. 20:51:48 pieces 20:52:01 -!- dlowe1 [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:52:06 fragione: if the symbol is not bound in the function environment, there's an error. 20:52:12 pieces of gentle and pcl, e.g. 20:52:19 so in order to call functions bound to -variables-, you need to use FUNCALL. 20:52:24 yates: Did my example give you a clue? 20:52:37 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:38 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:53:22 fragione: does that make sense at all? 20:54:19 yates: You might like Lisp by Winston and Horn. It goes into some lower level stuff that might interest you. It's a bit dated, but still relevant. 20:54:35 thinking... 20:54:40 *rtoym* has not read LiSP yet. 20:54:42 fragione: (p x) doesn't work at the REPL, if you don't define a global function named p. And if you do, then it will work also inside a function, that is, it will call the global function named p! 20:55:09 so defun defines a global function? 20:55:13 yup. 20:55:18 and only a global function. 20:55:23 gcv [~gcv@cpe-24-193-231-103.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:28 it does not define it in the 'closest lexical scope'. 20:55:32 -!- gcv [~gcv@cpe-24-193-231-103.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 20:56:00 ok 20:56:17 You can do, for example: (let ((x 0)) (defun count-up () (incf x))) (count-up) 20:56:48 fragione: (defun p (x) (print (list 'global-p x))) (flet ((p (x) (print (list 'local-p x)))) (flet ((g (p) (funcall p 'in-g)) (h (f) (p 'in-h))) (g 'p) (g #'p) (h 'p) (h #'p))) 20:56:50 fragione: to define local functions, use FLET or LABELS. 20:57:03 pjb: that's mean! 20:57:21 yates: You didn't answer my question. 20:57:33 fragione: sorry, a typo: (defun p (x) (print (list 'global-p x))) (flet ((p (x) (print (list 'local-p x)))) (flet ((g (p) (funcall p 'in-g)) (h (p) (p 'in-h))) (g 'p) (g #'p) (h 'p) (h #'p))) 20:57:57 beach: sorry - i am thinking and also busy with something else right now.. give me a few 20:57:58 xraycat [~Miranda@brln-4db94610.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:38 rtoym: i do have the winston/horn book from when you recommended it to me some, what, 11 years ago? still haven't read it all the way through 21:00:17 _6502_ [4e0ceda4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.237.164] has joined #lisp 21:00:36 yates: how about studying beach's example instead of arguing on? 21:01:31 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-247-192.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:07 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-249-186.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:02:23 ehu: i wasn't aware i was arguing 21:02:44 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:19 and rtoym's statement was before beach's - i was looking at his 21:03:37 i.e., rtoym's, first 21:03:53 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-57-122.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:04:15 and i'm slow 21:04:29 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.254.156.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:04:51 boiantz [~boiantz@92-247-214-154.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 21:05:57 Glad it helped a little. 21:06:57 i don't really get what (function x) does, unless it takes x as a symbol name and returns the function bound to it 21:07:38 It does, but the qustion is "bound in which environment?". 21:07:58 (function x) is syntax, not a function call. 21:11:22 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:24 beach: what are the possible environments you speak of? 21:12:11 lexical vs? 21:12:22 global 21:12:45 yates: One way to think about it is that symbols name things. In CL, symbols can name multiple things. When you say FOO, that means you're asking for what FOO names in the "value" namespace. When you say #'foo, which is just an abbreviation for (function foo), you're asking for what FOO names in the "function" namespace. 21:12:55 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-249-186.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:13:19 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.249.186] has joined #lisp 21:14:00 -!- jomatv6 [~jomat@2001:470:9935::badc:ab1e] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:14:07 minion: memo for arbscht: You can put that audio up if you want. Be advised that I'm just assuming I have the right to give you permission to do so. It's possible the ACM or the ALU could claim that I don't have such a right. 21:14:07 Remembered. I'll tell arbscht when he/she/it next speaks. 21:14:14 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.249.186] has quit [Client Quit] 21:14:35 the ACM or especially the ALU is unlikely to be competent enough to notice 21:14:46 Krystof: that's part of my thinking. 21:15:25 minion: memo for yan_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116233#1 21:15:25 Remembered. I'll tell yan_ when he/she/it next speaks. 21:15:51 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:57 rme: i'd like to say i get it, but... 21:16:38 but wait, let me try to see beach's example... 21:18:15 <_6502_> what example ? 21:18:27 yates: Also look at the CLHS glossary entry for "function designator". 21:18:39 beach: see, i don't know flet - i'm looking it up now. your example had more unknown things for me to conquer to be able to even get you and response 21:18:44 s/response/respond/ 21:19:48 -!- gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:20:04 _6502_: search backwards for flet 21:21:17 *beach* vanishes. It has been a tough day! 21:22:03 i have the feeling i'm struggling at too high of a level. i picked up winston again and see i had conquered some fundamentals a while back that i've now forgotten. so please pardon me and allow me to go back a relearn some fundamentals before i continue this discussion. 21:22:35 and thanks beach, pjb, rtoym, et al. for your help 21:22:37 <_6502_> backward ? i just arrived :-/ 21:22:47 minion: tell _6502_ about logs 21:22:48 _6502_: please see logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 21:23:45 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:25 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:11 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:25:24 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:25:36 fusss [~chatzilla@CPE-65-31-225-242.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:50 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:53 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:26:28 TDT [~user@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 21:27:14 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:27:34 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:27:49 -!- shakshak [~user@41.239.199.239] has left #lisp 21:29:44 <_6502_> hmmm 21:29:48 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064141.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:30:26 *_6502_* didn't even know (funcall 'f 2) was legal 21:30:33 I'm wondering about concurrency in cl/sbcl - what's the general approach? Threads? 21:31:19 seangrov`: yea. 21:32:21 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 21:32:22 zomgbie_ [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 21:33:51 seangrov`: depending on the problem, processes might be preferable 21:34:29 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:26 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:38:01 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A71ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:23 sb-concurrency? ;) 21:48:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 21:48:59 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:22 It seems like whenever I'm using usockets and the slime repl, if I try to fire (usocket:socket-server ....) the repl is essentially dead after that 21:50:31 I'm thinking that's because it's not in its own thread? 21:50:51 thus (socket-server...) is going to be blocking everything else 21:51:21 the slime-repl is executed in its own thread (on sbcl, by the default communication style) 21:51:33 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:44 -!- boiantz [~boiantz@92-247-214-154.spectrumnet.bg] has left #lisp 21:51:49 go into a .lisp buffer (or *slime-scratch*), type (print 'foo) and press C-x C-e 21:52:09 You should see FOO be printed in the slime-repl 21:52:10 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:21 No... 21:52:28 I see it in the status bar, but not in the repl 21:53:29 I can't remember output going over the slime repl thread, so I'm a bit surprised 21:53:33 Does that mean I have things setup incorrectly? 21:53:35 seangrov`: are you sure you have SBCL compiled with threahs enabled? 21:53:51 I'm not - I installed it from the dmg on the sbcl site 21:53:51 seangrov`: If you see it in the minibuffer, all is well 21:54:21 the point of demonstration was that slime is actually multithreaded 21:54:33 tcr: sorry, wasn't paying close attention. 21:54:37 and most commands are executed in a worker thread 21:54:43 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:54:47 Heh, ok 21:54:59 but every command in the slime-repl is executed in the same thread for obvious reasons (maintaining state) 21:55:08 So why then if I run (usocket:socket-server ...) will the repl not work until I C-c C-c 21:55:23 Ah 21:55:27 Because the reprl thread is setting their waiting for socket connections, presumably. 21:56:15 seangrov`: You probably want something like (defparameter *server* (sb-thread:make-thread #'(lambda () (usocket:)))) 21:56:59 Interesting... I think I'll have to read up on threads in sbcl 21:58:21 Usually you start with (defvar *server*) (defun start-foo-server (&key ) (assert (not *server*)) (setq *server* (make-thread #'(lambda () ))) 21:58:23 seangrov`: or just use bordeaux-threads. 21:58:40 and then use (start-foo-server ) in the repl 21:59:00 along with (stop-foo-server) and (restart-foo-server) 21:59:11 How would stop-server work in that case? 21:59:12 capieche? 21:59:30 I think I'm close 21:59:46 But wondering how to stop the server now that it's been spun off into another thread 21:59:49 well the easy way would be to kill the thread, though that might be unsafe 21:59:55 seangrov`: If you're just developing, you can keep a reference to the thread, and just destroy it when you don't want it anymore. 22:00:11 if you want -proper- thread shutdown, you'll have to arrange for some sort of communication between threads. 22:00:28 such as a shared variable that the thread loop checks, and starts shutdown when it's set to some value. 22:00:42 Is that where bordeaux-threads come in handy? 22:00:54 bordeaux-threads just makes your code more portable. 22:00:58 since you're already using usocket. 22:01:17 Aweomse 22:01:22 Or rather, awesome 22:01:25 Thanks guys 22:01:30 Have to hop on the train now 22:01:31 happy hacking 22:01:41 I recommend the message framework ZeroMQ, if you are going to be doing major concurrency 22:01:49 oh he's going 22:03:29 -!- TDT [~user@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:19 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.46] has joined #lisp 22:04:56 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-151.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 22:04:57 Fare: after pulling asdf, cl-launch, xcvb I still get: "Could not find a build with requested fullname /xcvb/hello. Try xcvb show-source-registry" 22:06:14 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:06:52 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-25-82-254-177-74.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:11:34 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:04 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:07 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-205-153.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:55 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 22:15:28 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:31 -!- silenius [~silenus@rrcs-64-183-24-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:01 vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-57-41.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:17:02 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:41 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:17:48 -!- kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: kjbrock] 22:19:01 syntard__ [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:05 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:12 -!- syntard__ is now known as syntard 22:19:39 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:40 blabla [~lisps@BSN-61-32-239.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:40 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:21:40 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-57-41.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:21:47 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-32-82-254-4-217.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:53 -!- syntard_ [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:22:07 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:43 -!- dnm_ [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:57 blabla_ [~lisps@BSN-61-57-189.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:08 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 22:25:22 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 22:26:14 -!- blabla [~lisps@BSN-61-32-239.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:26:14 -!- blabla_ is now known as blabla 22:26:23 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:27:39 vokoda_ [~vokoda@host86-163-162-215.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:44 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:27:54 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:10 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:55 -!- jondro [~jedrek@chello089073233006.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:32:13 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:33:33 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:33:52 PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-129-105-158-237.pick.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 22:34:11 seangrove [~user@184-192-201-35.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:51 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:29 silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:55 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:37:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:38:16 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:20 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:28 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75408b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:34 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 22:39:05 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-196-228.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:39:15 -!- Kad_k_LaP is now known as LaPingvino 22:39:43 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:40:03 guther2: Thanks for pointing out cl-zeromq, I didn't realize that cl had bindings for it 22:40:07 Very awesome :) 22:40:09 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 22:40:25 Is there string formatting for outputting datetime? 22:40:30 hi, is there something like XPath but for sexps? 22:40:57 seangrove: I like s-utils:format-universal-time 22:41:31 sellout [~greg@64.134.229.194] has joined #lisp 22:42:14 Seems like ql doesn't have it 22:42:24 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:05 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:44:11 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:18 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:44:56 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:46:26 -!- _6502_ [4e0ceda4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.237.164] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:48:00 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:50:01 Am I asking for trouble if I install something via both ql and asdf? 22:50:24 Or rather, can I use asdf to install libs that aren't available in ql? 22:50:26 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-129-105-158-237.pick.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:51:32 nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:41 asdf-install, you mean 22:51:48 -!- vokoda_ [~vokoda@host86-163-162-215.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:52:02 I can't imagine it being a problem. 22:52:27 *schmrkc* is no quicklisp guru. but it seems it'd use asdf too. 22:52:47 seangrove: just download it and put it somewhere where ASDF can see it. 22:53:14 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:33 you can configure ASDF2 to recursively scan folders searching for .asd files. Quicklisp will work just fine with this, too, since it uses ASDF under the hood. 22:53:33 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 22:53:48 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 22:53:56 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:54:59 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:55:20 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 22:56:59 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:18 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 22:59:05 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:30 Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 23:02:07 what should I install to get libssl32.dll ? 23:02:13 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:02:52 *syntard* tries openssl 23:03:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:04:14 -!- Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:04:14 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@CPE-65-31-225-242.new.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:06:11 -!- fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:06:54 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-165-15.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 23:06:55 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 23:07:14 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:45 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:08:52 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has quit [Quit: superflit] 23:09:49 nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has joined #lisp 23:09:50 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 23:09:50 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 23:10:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:11:08 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 23:11:12 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-65-15.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:11:20 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:11:34 attila: OK, so what's in your source-registry? 23:11:57 it's a bug in the test suite if it doesn't properly override your source registry with something that works. 23:11:58 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 23:12:48 maybe you have multiple copies, which cause a conflict? 23:13:12 fusss [~chatzilla@65.31.225.242] has joined #lisp 23:13:47 is weblocks slow? 23:14:08 syntard: how fast do you think sending data over TCP is? 23:14:23 sykopomp: faaast 23:14:47 syntard: oh? How fast is it compared to accessing heap-allocated memory? 23:15:12 sykopomp: not that fast, is this relevant? 23:15:31 syntard: yes. I'm trying to get to "it's fast enough". 23:15:35 ;) 23:16:04 *syntard* thinks nginx is faster 23:16:23 -!- seangrove [~user@184-192-201-35.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:16:39 syntard: does nginx run webapps in lisp? 23:16:42 is nginx a continuation-based web framework? 23:16:43 and g-wan should be faster than nginx ;) 23:16:47 in lisp, of all things. 23:17:03 plus, isn't teepeedee2 faster than nginx, anyway? 23:17:08 syntard: I'm seeing apples and pears here. 23:17:16 *syntard* cringes 23:17:23 gack 23:17:25 syntard: yates was having some issues with weblocks being very slow 23:17:41 that was a bug 23:17:45 oh ok 23:17:47 which has since been fixed. 23:17:53 *schmrkc* nods. excellent. 23:18:09 It's all a bit "slow for doing what?" 23:18:13 schmrkc: that was fixed? 23:18:26 syntard: Fade says so. I have no reason to doubt it. 23:18:38 I'm not asking for much 23:18:41 :) 23:18:49 Did you try it? Is it slow? 23:18:59 why should default page take couple seconds on qosmio? 23:19:01 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:19:07 if you have loaded weblocks /w quicklisp, then you are probably experiencing this performance issue. 23:19:09 and if it is, is your algorithm ok? 23:19:27 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-65-15.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:19:29 Fade: yes, I did 23:19:51 download the package manually and load it with asdf. the fix will be in quicklisp when xach updates the dist. 23:19:53 is it slow on the first request, or on all? 23:20:03 Fade: cool 23:20:07 ehu: it's a pretty serious performance regression. 23:20:08 syntard: I tried it quite a while ago and it was no slow. It has changed a lot since then I believe. 23:20:10 ehu: i reload, same speed 23:20:18 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:20:18 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:20:23 ok 23:22:04 in general, weblocks is not slow. 23:22:29 Fade: i get dev, right? 23:22:35 yeah 23:22:51 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 23:22:56 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:23:29 ArtVandalae [~SuperUnkn@220-253-40-212.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:25:28 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.229.194] has quit [Quit: sellout] 23:26:14 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:27:01 vroufe [~omx@ppp79-139-172-111.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 23:27:48 anair_84 [~anair_84@149.142.112.2] has joined #lisp 23:28:49 -!- xraycat [~Miranda@brln-4db94610.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 23:29:39 -!- silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 23:31:03 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-65-15.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:31:50 shackshack [~user@41.239.199.239] has joined #lisp 23:32:32 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.198.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:49 vokoda [~vokoda@host86-164-95-51.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:51 silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:33:59 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:34:06 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host86-164-95-51.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:37:03 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:37:25 *Xach* is working on the update 23:39:13 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:41:28 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 23:41:46 whee [~whee@cpe-69-207-148-170.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:46 adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:52 -!- shackshack [~user@41.239.199.239] has left #lisp 23:49:27 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:50:12 boscop_ [~boscop@f055159129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:50:46 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@149.142.112.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:50:50 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 23:51:12 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:51:39 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:51:48 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055159129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:52:54 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 23:59:45 ArtVanda1ae [~SuperUnkn@220-253-17-149.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp