00:00:56 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:02:41 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:53 joe__ [~joe@c-24-126-150-146.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:01 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:01 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:06 hello all, I got into haskell programming and have been very impressed with how clean the program looks. Knowing that lisp is the grand-daddy of functional programming, I have been reading "on lisp" and other lisp books. I realise that most of haskells' features can be incorporated into lisp pretty easily, except for lazy evaluation. I am also impressed with "pure lisp" and wanted to check if there is something (script,etc) that can check if 00:09:13 -!- joe__ is now known as joe1 00:09:30 joe1: cut off at "can check if" 00:10:13 a lisp program is "pure" or not.? 00:10:15 on lisp talks about lazy 00:10:51 Lisp is a multi-paradigm language. 00:11:17 The functional paradigm is only one of the paradigms it embodies. 00:11:55 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:11:56 There's also imperative programming, object-oriented programming, and with a bit of effort it can easily accomodate pretty much any other paradigm. 00:12:00 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:03 trigen [~MSX@] has joined #lisp 00:12:11 syntard: i like the fact that haskell enforces purity and being a newbie to the functional programming world, I am wondering if there is an extension or script that can read my program and say that it is "not" pure or not.. I read the book where, I think, Mr. Graham talks about assuming that there is a tax on certain functions. 00:12:43 i could write a parser/checker on my program, but, just curious if it has been done already. 00:12:45 joe1: that's a neat idea, to check for purity 00:12:58 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:04 that's a great idea actually 00:13:27 joe1: typical common lisp code doesn't aspire especially strongly to purity 00:13:28 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:33 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:47 paul graham doesn't write about common lisp as it is usually practiced. 00:13:55 Xach: then something for scheme 00:14:06 there's a different channel for discussing scheme 00:14:30 ouch 00:14:35 Hexstream: yes, from what i have been reading up on lisp, it seems to be very flexible. and I was surprised in "Steel's book", how easy it would be to have something that can do the type checking, etc.. in common lisp. I am not saying that the language is missing something, I am just curious of utilities that can make my programs better. 00:15:13 Do you mean "Steele"? 00:15:17 yes, 00:16:06 joe1: Your programs will get better if you read a lot of code and write code. There's a program called lisp-critic that aims to give you hints about odd style, but I don't know of any others like it. 00:16:30 Xach: thanks, that is the kind of suggestion I am looking for. 00:18:08 I think this channel is the best critic. paste your code in paste.lisp.org 00:18:22 Most modern good lisp code wouldn't pass lisp-critic. It would need a good upgrade. 00:18:39 syntard: thanks. I am about to embark on converting my haskell program to lisp. I will post it as soon as I have something. 00:19:10 joe1: One approach that can provide some "program verification" for free is DSLs. For instance, if you try to write HTML directly you could produce "", which is obviously invalid, but you can use a nice syntax where you say: (:html) and that would produce the correct thing with no possibility of closing the tag inproperly. 00:19:18 sloanr [~user@] has joined #lisp 00:19:23 joe1: there's also liskell, which allow you to write haskell programs with sexps (and therefore gives you the ability to define lisp macros for your liskell code). 00:20:21 improperly* 00:20:55 pjb: i did not know that it allowed the ability to define lisp macros. I will put it for future studies. I will take the plunge into common lisp, this time as I have reading for so long and so much about it and take it from there. 00:21:09 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-118-168.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:58 Hexstream: ok, thanks. 00:22:58 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-115-46.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:24:10 banisterfiend [~horse@] has joined #lisp 00:25:07 anyone using sbcl on debian? 00:25:26 joe1: don't use debian's sbcl 00:25:58 immediately apt-get remove --purge anything lisp related, get a binary sbcl from sbcl.org, get quicklisp, be happy! 00:26:13 drewc: oh, ok. 00:26:30 drewc: there is a clisp, installed by default. 00:26:46 _danb_ [~user@124-149-55-13.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:26:58 *Xach* is using sbcl from www.sbcl.org on debian 00:27:00 hopefully, that will not be a problem.. is it? 00:27:05 clisp can stay :) 00:27:18 ok, cool. will get sbcl from sbcl.org then. 00:27:36 just make sure you've purged any of debian's sbcl configuration related to common-lisp-controller 00:27:51 and then get quicklisp if you haven't already 00:28:31 drewc: ok, thanks. I could not get "apt-get check sbcl" to return anything. 00:28:36 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:29:07 and the same goes with "apt-get check common-lisp-controller' 00:29:14 s/'/"/ 00:29:46 -!- Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:57 timack [~tim@hlfx62-2a-216.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 00:34:29 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@b11wi-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Quit: Kerrick] 00:35:20 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@] has joined #lisp 00:36:10 TomJ [~tomj@] has joined #lisp 00:36:21 -!- TomJ [~tomj@] has left #lisp 00:37:36 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:40:45 -!- sloanr [~user@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:52 -!- SCVirus [~B234651@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:00 sloanr [~user@] has joined #lisp 00:41:04 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:41:14 SCVirus [~B234651@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:49 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C022.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:44:40 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-123-16.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:47 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:46:26 joe1: even if liskell doesn't provide a defmacro, it's trivial to implement a macro system once your sources are in sexp form. 00:47:09 But since defmacro is the point of sexpifying a language, the probability liskell has macros is high. 00:47:44 -!- katofiad [~k2t0f12d@] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:48:06 -!- trigen [~MSX@] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:48:40 is it possible to define a type "list-of-symbols"? i'm trying (check-type #1=(or null (cons symbol #1#))) 00:49:20 (check-type list) is the most you can do easily. 00:49:42 however, only abcl doesn't stack overflow on error (i.e. non lists of symbol), acl and clisp don't stack overflow on correct values, ccl sbcl and lw always stack overflow 00:50:44 You could do (dolist (symbol my-list) (check-type symbol symbol)) 00:51:20 i was trying to avoid that, as setf'ing (calling the store-value restart) the place there won't actually change the list 00:52:12 perhaps (loop for x on l do (check-type x symbol)), assuming i've done (check-type l list) before 00:52:41 pjb: ok, will check liskell. thanks. 00:53:20 ok, look for-on doesn't do what i was expecting (of course) 00:53:37 in 00:54:03 kjs3 [~kjs3@c-24-99-86-210.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:12 ON iterates on the conses of the list, IN iterates or the cars of the list. 00:54:19 iterates on* 00:54:22 Hexstream: nop, there's an example in clhs using destructuring: (loop for (x) on l ...), i just need to know if x is setfable 00:54:28 Hexstream: true 00:54:49 (sorry, async reading/writing) 00:55:25 Well, (loop for x in list do stuff) would be equivalent to (loop for (x) on list do stuff), but the latter is a bit pointless. 00:56:23 Maybe you're a bit too obsessed with the store-value restart... 00:56:30 Hexstream: the point is i'm trying to use check-type's ability to prompt the user for a new value for , which is its first parameter 00:56:34 indeed... 00:56:43 I don't think the standard allows you to SETF a variable managed by LOOP... 00:57:15 Unless you like undefined behavior and frustrations. 00:57:26 i installed quicklisp in a user directory and I am getting this error when starting sbcl: ASDF could not load sb-bsd-sockets because Not an absolute pathname #P"~/.clc/systems/". 00:57:33 is this common? 00:57:52 joe1: known common-lisp-controller bug. see http://quicklisp.org/beta/release-notes.html for a possible fix. 00:57:54 pmd: (loop for x on list do (check-type (car x) symbol) ...) 00:58:11 Xach: ok, thanks. 00:58:14 Hexstream: however, i felt disappointed about the recursiveness of type checking on most implementations 00:58:29 -!- carlocci [~nes@] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:58:29 pmd: What do you mean? 00:58:37 adeht: that seems quite fine, thanks 00:58:48 pmd: Why not do (deftype list-of-symbols () '(satisfies list-of-symbols-p)) (defun list-of-symbols-p (l) (and (listp l) (every #'symbolp l))) 00:59:52 rtoym: that seems good also, i was trying to make it local, but i might choose that one because of reusability 00:59:53 katofiad [~k2t0f12d@] has joined #lisp 01:00:24 (deftype list-of-symbols () '(and list (satisfies list-of-symbols-p))) would be marginally better I think. Satisfies is completely opaque to the implementation. 01:00:51 Hexstream: abcl handles the check-type and #1= #1# trick as i expected, but others didn't 01:01:50 pmd: Whoa shit. I never expected an implementation would support that. I'm pretty positive it's not part of the standard. It's also a feature I wouldn't think to use, personally, though I see what you're trying to do ;P 01:02:35 64/8 01:02:50 (forgot a command before that, sorry) 01:03:29 banisterfiend [~horse@] has joined #lisp 01:03:40 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-118-168.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:03:46 Hexstream: i must lower my expectations relative to "ansi common lisp" and "portable code" indeed 01:04:32 pmd: It seems to me you had high expectations of supporting features that are both hard to implement and not very useful. 01:05:04 -!- jeti [~user@p548EBDC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:05:40 (Though the standard admittedly doesn't include many things that it "should" such as sockets, due to its age). 01:06:38 Hexstream: they're actually very simple to implement. i can understand why acl and clisp don't stack overflow on correct values, but i don't understand very well why they do on incorrect values, not to mention the implementations that always stack overflow 01:06:41 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 01:08:01 Ok, anyway, Common Lisp was a heck of a standardization effort, you know. It's inevitable that there are some lackings. For what it's worth, I'm quite satisfied at what was produced. 01:08:29 There's no point getting hung up on minor lackings like that ;P 01:08:42 adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:09 *p_l|uni* had recently encountered LISP1.5 portability example... 01:10:51 -!- superflit [~superflit@] has quit [Quit: superflit] 01:11:34 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-58-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:11:56 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-58-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:12:23 superflit [~superflit@] has joined #lisp 01:14:10 _nix00 [~Adium@] has joined #lisp 01:14:31 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 01:14:41 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:25 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-234-176.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 01:16:48 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 01:18:00 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-74-181.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:22 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633486.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:19:24 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:20:26 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:22:29 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx62-2a-216.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:22:45 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:25:31 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:04 p_l|uni: what are you refering to? 01:27:29 -!- superflit [~superflit@] has quit [Quit: superflit] 01:27:29 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:27:48 -!- Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-28-73.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:27:50 -!- phrixos [~miar1@gnu/webmaster/phrixos] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:28:08 phrixos [~miar1@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 01:28:53 pjb: Wang algorithm example from LISP1.5 manual running in ANSI CL 01:29:43 the "ported" example is basically a small shim in CL that makes it possible to simply read the original code in 01:30:13 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-58-173.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:34:49 drewc: quicklisp has been pretty good... thanks for the suggestion. 01:34:53 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-58-173.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:35:55 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 01:36:36 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:37:24 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:02 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:39:22 MetalDust_Clouds [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:31 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:41:13 Nihil ex nihil 01:42:12 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:42:40 and Veritas aeterna 01:43:07 et 01:43:45 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:02 -!- MetalDust_Clouds [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:44:23 like looking for secret rooms 01:46:52 ? 01:48:13 trying bad code and seeing what comes up 01:48:30 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:49:09 -!- logia_th [~nmo@] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 01:49:36 i think there is #temp or #scratchpad or so at least something is there 01:50:28 and besides just join a channel which does not exist and you get a new room, are there op even 01:52:10 cmpitg [~cmpitg@] has joined #lisp 01:52:22 try (setf (symbol-value 'nil) t) in sbcl, you'll see what I mean 01:52:35 I'm in the right channel, thanks 01:52:57 wahahah 01:53:03 did you try that there ? 01:53:09 _danb_` [~user@124-149-55-13.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:53:11 replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:53:46 that is ub not ? 01:54:25 Illegal, yes. 01:54:38 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-55-13.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:55:00 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-234-176.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 01:55:02 That message is inherited from cmucl. Which probably inherited it from somewhere else. 01:56:34 hso [~hso@] has joined #lisp 02:00:13 yes, sorry, I meant illegal code 02:00:22 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 02:00:45 not that they are mutually exclusive :) 02:00:57 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Client Quit] 02:02:03 -!- hso [~hso@] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:09:41 -!- Devon [~devon@c-24-6-0-207.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:19:52 p_l|uni: ok. I thought you encoutered another example ;-) 02:22:36 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:26:25 -!- gz` [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 02:26:48 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:28:04 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:28:50 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:18 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@] has joined #lisp 02:37:08 -!- xan_ [~xan@c-24-5-71-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:38:28 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:42:45 -!- xinming [~hyy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:44:17 xinming [~hyy@] has joined #lisp 02:45:39 caelan [~caelan@] has joined #lisp 02:49:14 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-8-65.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:46 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:49:55 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:50:22 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-74-181.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:52:12 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:03 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-123-16.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:53:09 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-217-235.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:46 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-8-65.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:59:53 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-9-94.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:26 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-217-235.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:05:22 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-9-94.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 03:05:47 -!- joe1 [~joe@c-24-126-150-146.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:08:59 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-126-93.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:10 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 03:15:15 ericklc [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 03:15:44 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:17:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:18:53 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 03:20:27 -!- ericklc [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:22:49 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:27:42 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:30:22 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:32:45 banisterfiend [~horse@198-48-0-217-dhcp.cafenet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:34:07 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:37:14 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@] has joined #lisp 03:39:47 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:40:03 Any chance we'll ever see Genera open sourced? Or is this one of those loaded, vaugly ignorant questions like "IBM should open source OS/2" 03:40:51 why ? 03:40:57 is OS/2 that good ? 03:41:41 and what do they run on their cell's ? 03:42:06 fmeyer [~fmeyer@] has joined #lisp 03:42:18 homie: linux 03:42:43 ah 03:42:49 eheh, that's good 03:43:45 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:46:27 OS/2 was rather inovative...20 years ago. Much like Genera, I suppose. 03:52:22 -!- syntard [~quassel@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:53:27 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 03:53:51 syntard [~quassel@] has joined #lisp 03:56:33 laurus [~laurus@c-68-40-207-109.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:37 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 03:56:39 -!- laurus [~laurus@c-68-40-207-109.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:57:30 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:02:02 OS/2 was first attempt at "real" OS for PC that wasn't Unix, I'd say... If IBM took better care of it, it wouldn't die, IMHO (it was definitely miles better than Windows 3.x, but Warp 4 got released a little after Win95 and didn't support Win95 apps) 04:02:16 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:02:34 as for Genera, it still happily wants $5000 per license, with some recent work showed to run on OSX/ppc 04:03:30 (no idea about X86 support, though I think it should be possible without many problems thanks to X11.app) 04:03:35 why wouldn't a OS want to be a unix, i wonder 04:03:57 ^ That's why OS research got stalled 04:05:38 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:05:44 :) 04:06:06 but unix is so awesome 04:06:12 kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat-us/x-rthwpfxwjplzskto] has joined #lisp 04:06:13 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:14 can't you have the new research on top of unix? 04:06:36 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@239-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:37 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 04:06:42 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:06:42 i think piping commands and having each command do one thing well is very clever 04:06:52 kdas__ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-zkdxawhewwgsgghp] has joined #lisp 04:07:00 lemoinem [~swoog@] has joined #lisp 04:07:32 p_l: I am less optimistic -- quality doesn't trump network effects. 04:07:57 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:13 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:11:02 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat-us/x-rthwpfxwjplzskto] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:12:32 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:12:55 Zhivago: isn't that sort of a different manifestation of the blub paradox? 04:14:59 <_3b> might be a side effect of it, but that doesn't make it less of a problem 04:15:38 xan_ [~xan@] has joined #lisp 04:15:39 -!- kdas__ is now known as kushal 04:15:48 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-zkdxawhewwgsgghp] has quit [Changing host] 04:15:49 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:15:53 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 04:16:03 There were PCs, and "real" operating systems for them (for many values of real), long before OS/2 or Windows. 04:16:30 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:51 kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat-us/x-rzudhvgrhwrqfrpf] has joined #lisp 04:17:30 kdas__ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-eduffqjmubwdelpa] has joined #lisp 04:18:13 caelan: I don't thin kso. 04:18:46 Zhivago: oh yeah, i'm thinking of graham's discussion of network effects in that same essay 04:18:47 caelan: It's more an issue of economic costs being reduced by consensus, even sub-optimal consensus. 04:19:06 -!- kdas__ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-eduffqjmubwdelpa] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 04:19:45 Which is probably why hereditary monarchy has historically been so popular. 04:20:24 -!- unkanon [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 04:20:30 schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@ppp-93-104-73-106.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 04:20:36 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:21:01 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-mmssrpbrsaepecve] has joined #lisp 04:21:15 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat-us/x-rzudhvgrhwrqfrpf] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:21:58 p_l|uni: i have a copy of genera that runs under linux/intel 04:22:10 it's certainly out there :) 04:22:38 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:23:52 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:06 kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-lfpxmssuthnthjyw] has joined #lisp 04:26:53 echo-area [~user@] has joined #lisp 04:28:52 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-lfpxmssuthnthjyw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:29:05 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-iorcbcrgysfwowir] has joined #lisp 04:29:11 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-iorcbcrgysfwowir] has quit [Changing host] 04:29:11 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:33:25 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 04:34:19 pavelludiq [~quassel@] has joined #lisp 04:36:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:37:08 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/da/Open_genera-amd64-linux.png 04:37:21 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:38:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:39:41 it was compiled on an alhpa ? 04:39:45 nite folks 04:39:56 nite 04:40:05 04:40:43 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43:17 fgump [~gauthamg@] has joined #lisp 04:43:31 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 04:44:28 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:44:28 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 04:44:28 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:45:01 drewc: snap4? it's effect of binary translation 04:45:18 the ppc64 is an actual source port 04:45:36 (as much as the source parts that were usable...) 04:47:42 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:47:50 -!- az [~az@p4FE4F873.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:52:31 superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:54 kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat-us/x-hcognbihrahomkvf] has joined #lisp 04:53:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:53:37 kdas__ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-ezehauzxejysspuk] has joined #lisp 04:54:25 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:54:35 fgump [~gauthamg@] has joined #lisp 04:56:50 -!- kdas__ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-ezehauzxejysspuk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:57:23 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:57:39 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat-us/x-hcognbihrahomkvf] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:57:47 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:58 -!- _danb_` is now known as ______danb______ 05:02:14 -!- ______danb______ is now known as _danb_ 05:02:33 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:04:50 http://paste.lisp.org/display/116164 05:05:11 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 05:05:17 I read in cltl2 that functions can be defined in enclosing lexical env 05:06:01 Doesn't defun create a lex environment? 05:07:10 no 05:07:26 it uses the null-lexical-one i think 05:07:39 if i am correct 05:07:46 i'm not sure 05:08:55 yes it's the global-env 05:09:13 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-55-13.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:09:16 X3J13 voted in March 1989 (DEFINING-MACROS-NON-TOP-LEVEL) to clarify that, while defining forms normally appear at top level, it is meaningful to place them in non-top-level contexts; defun must define the function within the enclosing lexical environment, not within the null lexical environment. 05:09:17 gloval-env==null-lexical 05:09:26 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node66.html 05:10:21 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 05:10:44 <_3b> defun cretaes a lexical environment, but defines functions in the global environment 05:10:53 Well, it doesn't say the fun won't be redefined, yeah ^^ 05:11:12 thanks 05:12:12 and also, did all those votes happen really ? 05:12:26 absolutely 05:12:48 cleanup issues, i mean are they part of the standard or just let open for impl's ? 05:13:44 it even says it is permissible to redefine 05:14:59 *syntard* left to sleep, perchance to dream 05:15:05 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@198-48-0-217-dhcp.cafenet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:15:21 is it always that the toplevel corresponds to the global-env ? 05:15:43 murilasso [~murilasso@] has joined #lisp 05:15:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:16:00 az [~az@p4FE4EA70.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:01 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 05:17:39 Good morning everyone! 05:17:53 beach: ... you're scary 05:18:34 How so? 05:18:50 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:18:51 temp_ace [ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:59 -!- temp_ace is now known as ace4016 05:19:03 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 05:19:47 France is UTC+1. It's 0617 Zulu. You're on IRC greeting everyone, while having a respectable job etc. etc. 05:20:09 (eval (blow 'mind)) 05:20:22 A question of habit really. 05:20:32 I guess so 05:20:50 aidalgol [~user@] has joined #lisp 05:21:08 beach: Still, it is rather an unusual one in my opinion (or rather, perception. I know weirder habits) 05:21:44 beach, good morning 05:22:13 p_l|uni: Could be. I do most of my *real* work before going to "work" where it seems I do mostly admin stuff. 05:23:39 I guess it's a good habit 05:24:03 *p_l|uni* recently figured out that he really should have investigated going to military... might actually prove less stressful 05:25:44 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:25:51 -!- pr [phil@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:26:42 (who would've thought that Air Force career might look less stressful than programming?) 05:26:56 only issue is getting up early 05:27:26 kushal: the training takes care of that 05:27:31 :) 05:28:05 and actual deployment might have you waking up in the afternoon so that you're fully rested for nighttime 05:28:22 ok 05:28:48 pr [phil@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 05:28:50 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 05:29:00 I found cockpit is strange compared to 104 keys in a keyboard 05:29:19 kushal: not really, especially with HOTAS 05:29:26 _nix00 [~Adium@] has joined #lisp 05:29:31 -!- phrixos [~miar1@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:29:34 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@] has left #lisp 05:29:51 phrixos [~miar1@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 05:30:06 p_l|uni, well I don't know flying , but on pilot's seat , I got scared even on ground :) 05:30:26 anyway, after some time operating stick, pedals etc. are kinda like touch typing 05:30:56 *p_l|uni* just surprised himself by "practically" touch typing, despite this skill not being in his skillset... o_O 05:31:03 my initial reaction http://www.flickr.com/photos/kushaldas/153565716/in/photostream/ after looking into http://www.flickr.com/photos/kushaldas/153565374/in/photostream/ 05:31:25 ... looks simple 05:31:39 p_l|uni, then it should cool for you 05:31:51 * should be 05:32:01 modern glass cockits are actually even more simple 05:32:31 kushal: many instruments in planes have semi-standardized displays so that you have common base to train your mind for 05:32:38 -!- aidalgol [~user@] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:32:43 p_l|uni, ok 05:33:13 p_l|uni, though I want to learn flying , too costly in my country 05:33:16 my biggest issue was when I had to fly a glider that had imperial units used... 05:34:54 good thing it had color banding on IAS scale so I could "eyeball" the speed 05:35:22 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:36:12 (it's kinda hard to play conversions when you kind of "hardcoded" 60 km/h -> stall; 90 km/h -> crosswind cruise; 100 km/h -> turn etc.) 05:36:16 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0225.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 05:36:16 *beach* used to have a flight certificate. 05:36:47 PPL or similar? 05:36:53 yeah. 05:36:59 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 05:37:23 cool 05:37:56 I considered applying for MPL at some point, just so I could get work that could pay for a complete ATPL course without going into debt 05:39:04 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 05:39:30 banisterfiend [~horse@198-48-0-119-dhcp.cafenet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:40:45 (MPL was sort of a special pilot license allowing you to fly as first officer in airline, with completely integrated training, where airline pays for the complete training process) 05:40:58 Sounds like a good plan! 05:42:31 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-gapcrosekynjhmmw] has joined #lisp 05:43:04 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:43:21 beach: the only drawback is that you can't fly for yourself with only MPL, but airlines pay enough and have interesting enough work schedule to allow you to then do all necessary training yourself 05:44:05 Yeah, that sounds great! 05:44:10 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@198-48-0-119-dhcp.cafenet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:44:28 A worse problem is that pilots aren't paid as much as they used to. 05:44:47 And that's not going to change any time soon, quite the contrary I am guessing. 05:45:13 beach: a first pilot still gets more than entry-level programmer, afaik. And unlike with programming, you can't really bring the job home 05:45:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:45:38 *first officer 05:47:28 I think most professions "get more" than entry-level programmers, FSVO "get more" 05:47:48 :) 05:47:51 I hear pilots get a lot 05:48:06 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:49:04 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 05:49:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:50:31 Somehow I hear "aren't paid as much as they use to" about every profession..except managers and other leeches maybe 05:50:41 aidalgol [~user@] has joined #lisp 05:51:33 i read somewhere that managers only really believe in management as a career 05:51:34 chewbran1a [~chewbranc@c-24-18-241-128.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:36 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:27 slyrus__: regarding how programmers are paid... I am reminded of an old four-panel comic where mugger attacks a programmer with a knife and says "Money or Life!". Programmer replies: "Look, I'm a programmer" "So?" "I have no money and no life" 05:54:50 -!- chewbranca [~chewbranc@c-24-18-241-128.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:55:56 metasyntax [~taylor@] has joined #lisp 05:57:02 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:57:53 -!- stokachu [~user@nat/redhat/x-zquxlwzezmkkatrr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:58:01 stokachu [~user@nat/redhat/x-mcvbcydaeujcwepj] has joined #lisp 06:00:40 -!- aidalgol [~user@] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:00:40 -!- syntard [~quassel@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:01:41 aidalgol [~user@] has joined #lisp 06:02:06 -!- caelan [~caelan@] has left #lisp 06:02:33 syntard [~quassel@] has joined #lisp 06:02:36 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gsudvidufiojduqu] has joined #lisp 06:03:20 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 06:03:55 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gsudvidufiojduqu] has left #lisp 06:04:10 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:18 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mbfjklervucaotua] has joined #lisp 06:06:02 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-118-140.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:09:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:09:58 s0ng0ku [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:41 -!- superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:13:46 superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:05 sellout- [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:05 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:15:11 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 06:17:30 _danb_ [~user@124-149-55-13.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:18:35 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-9.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 06:21:20 Another question from the landoflisp translation committee: (load "filename") gives me a "does not exist". Does it have to be absolute in sbcl or something? 06:21:35 -!- aidalgol [~user@] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:22:36 *cYmen* searches for a way to switch it to relative paths. 06:25:42 cYmen, I am doing (load "filename.lisp") 06:26:03 cYmen, the author uploaded the source files 06:33:48 cYmen: the question is... what is current directory for the lisp? 06:33:55 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 06:34:13 rukowen [~thehien@] has joined #lisp 06:38:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:38:43 -!- rukowen [~thehien@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:42:56 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:44:10 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 06:48:41 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:49:21 -!- upwardindex [~Adium@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:53:29 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:57:14 -!- phrixos [~miar1@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:59:01 phrixos [~miar1@] has joined #lisp 07:05:12 where are the exercises from Successful LISP? 07:05:31 i've browsed quickly through some chapters and there doesn't seem to be any exercises 07:07:01 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:07:04 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082AE11.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:55 rukowen [~thehien@] has joined #lisp 07:10:15 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B327F9E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:11:19 p_l|uni: How do I change that? 07:14:41 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 07:16:20 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:16:20 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:16:20 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:17:18 seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-249.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:17:46 Athas [~athas@] has joined #lisp 07:19:25 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:55 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:23:04 What's a good mailing list to lurk on for awhile to learn a lot? 07:23:29 you learn by doing 07:24:09 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 07:24:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:28:03 any link to read about debugging on SBCL ? 07:29:51 -!- rukowen [~thehien@] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:30:26 trigen [~MSX@] has joined #lisp 07:30:32 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:31:51 enupten [~neptune@] has joined #lisp 07:33:47 zvrba: I'm working on that, of course ;) 07:33:56 got the groundwork in for a nice text adventure game 07:34:30 But I've been catching a lot on the clojure list, thought something similar for CL would be nice. Just seems that there's no single unified "CL" list 07:35:03 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-mmssrpbrsaepecve] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:35:36 -!- trigen [~MSX@] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:36:25 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 07:37:36 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-dgntcwdgjmtnucok] has joined #lisp 07:37:58 -!- sloanr [~user@] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:40:29 -!- jdz [~jdz@host188-104-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:41:56 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:45:58 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:46:08 good morning 07:50:00 -!- Malondron [~user@c80-216-27-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51:01 seangrove: there are better tools for writing text adventures than lisp...but I assume you're doing it because of lisp not because of the text adventures :) 07:51:32 cYmen: bingo :) 07:52:39 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:52:55 seangrove: there is comp.lang.lisp and lispforum.com and this channel no unified mailing list comes to mind but then again there are a lot of lisps and only one clojure 07:53:32 you could try the sbcl mailing list or something but I assume it will be full of technical details :) 07:53:46 text adventure? casting SPELs? 07:53:54 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 07:59:36 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:59:40 rukowen [~thehien@] has joined #lisp 08:00:14 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:00:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:01:03 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:01:56 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:06:37 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 08:09:07 -!- rukowen [~thehien@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:01 -!- enupten [~neptune@] has quit [Quit: quitting...] 08:12:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:16:38 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 08:17:17 beaumonta [~abeaumont@] has joined #lisp 08:17:19 jdz [~jdz@] has joined #lisp 08:20:34 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-9.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:22:32 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:23:07 spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:28:20 rukowen [~thehien@] has joined #lisp 08:32:08 -!- rukowen [~thehien@] has left #lisp 08:33:13 scrimple [~ryder@] has joined #lisp 08:34:07 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-77.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 08:34:43 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:37:02 trigen [~MSX@] has joined #lisp 08:38:03 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:41:36 -!- trigen [~MSX@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:47:36 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 08:50:22 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:52:16 trigen [~MSX@] has joined #lisp 08:53:02 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:56:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-193-189.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:00:01 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-77.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 09:01:18 -!- scrimple [~ryder@] has left #lisp 09:05:57 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:06:43 was wondering if someone could suggest some good books/tutorials to learn Common Lisp 09:06:55 I have done ML and Haskell in the past 09:07:20 edlinde, PCL http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 09:07:21 and we are doing a course at uni that will soon require using Common Lisp 09:07:25 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:07:40 edlinde: what university ? 09:07:54 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:07:54 Uppsala 09:08:05 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:22 so is this the only book? 09:08:40 does it go into syntax etc? 09:08:51 also what Lisp compiler do I download and install for my Mac? 09:08:54 any suggestions? 09:09:32 -!- beaumonta [~abeaumont@] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:09:34 I hear this book you suggested isn't strong on details 09:10:20 any suggestions? 09:12:36 edlinde: For a Mac you'd probably want to go with http://ccl.clozure.com/ but perhaps people who use SBCL on a Mac can chime in. 09:12:59 SBCL and Slime 09:13:06 thats what we will be using for the course apparently 09:13:27 but then I am not sure how different say Clozure would be from SBCL/Slime? 09:13:44 Use whatever the people running the course want. 09:14:08 ok does it install on macosx? 09:14:14 edlinde: for a uni course propably not that different but like Zhivago said: go with SBCL if that's what they're using 09:14:33 k will try to find a mac version 09:14:56 also is there no good books on lisp? like a definitive guide that is a "must read" :) 09:15:23 hlavaty [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:15:39 how about http://www.amazon.com/ANSI-Common-LISP-Paul-Graham/dp/0133708756/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1288689302&sr=1-4 by http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Graham/e/B001ILHE5O/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_4?qid=1288689302&sr=1-4  09:15:42 edlinde: I could recommend "ANSI Common Lisp" 09:15:46 ok, too late 09:15:50 flip214: :) 09:15:56 edlinde: http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html I'm no Mac user but this ought to get you started 09:16:05 ehu [~ehuels@] has joined #lisp 09:17:07 ok 09:17:10 will check it out 09:17:30 what about "Advanced Techniques" by Paul Graham? 09:18:34 edlinde: "Practical Common Lisp" is fine, too. Furthermore I'd suggest to look at this list: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/194812/list-of-freely-available-programming-books 09:18:42 There are some more resources. 09:19:02 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:19:05 has anyone read --> http://www.amazon.com/Successful-Lisp-How-Understand-Common/dp/3937526005/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1288689466&sr=1-1 09:19:06 echo-are` [~user@] has joined #lisp 09:19:12 successful lisp? 09:20:03 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:20:15 tsuru` [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:01 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 09:21:02 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:02 -!- kjs3 [~kjs3@c-24-99-86-210.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:21:03 homie` [~user@] has joined #lisp 09:22:01 krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:22:57 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:02 -!- echo-area [~user@] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:23:02 beaumonta [~abeaumont@] has joined #lisp 09:23:27 yakov [~yzaytsev@] has joined #lisp 09:24:07 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@] has joined #lisp 09:24:23 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-58-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:24:53 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 09:25:59 pavelludiq [~quassel@] has joined #lisp 09:26:24 kjs3 [~kjs3@c-24-99-86-210.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:28:22 enupten [~neptune@] has joined #lisp 09:28:54 leo2007 [~leo@] has joined #lisp 09:29:53 arbscht_ [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 09:29:56 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:30:57 -!- Athas [~athas@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:01 Hun [~Hun@] has joined #lisp 09:31:28 edlinde: yes, it's in the list of free programming books I posted 09:32:08 edlinde: My recommendation is PCL, ANSI CL (perhaps in other order), then everything you can get ;-) 09:32:31 what's the favourite database application used with common lisp? 09:32:33 And if you've got a firm understanding of macros and backquoting (or at least think you have), Let over lambda too 09:32:38 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 09:33:00 leo2007: what do you mean with application? DB layer => CLSQL 09:33:15 Or do you mean database, like postgres, mysql, sqlite3 and so on? 09:33:28 flip214: the latter. 09:33:53 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-63-120.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:35:13 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-93.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 09:36:16 Hmm, I like to mess around with sqlite3 ... no server needed, and so on. but there are a few things that don't work like they should - like autoincrement keys, and so on. 09:36:27 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-42-36.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:36:31 I'd like to get them fixed anyway ... 09:36:31 dore [~dore@athedsl-198232.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 09:36:39 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu070.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:37:56 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:40:17 -!- dore [~dore@athedsl-198232.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:46:26 Grahack [~chri@ACaen-156-1-51-52.w90-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:47:10 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:48:25 Some days ago I had a question regarding CLSQL that couldn't get answered ... any CLSQL wizards here now? 09:49:07 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 09:51:44 Guthur [c743cb96@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #lisp 09:52:08 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 09:55:22 No CLSQL wizards? How about magicians? ;-) 09:59:02 H4ns` [~user@p579F8922.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:00:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:03:17 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9E44F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:04:24 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:05:25 -!- Grahack [~chri@ACaen-156-1-51-52.w90-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 10:05:29 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:24 josemanuel [~josemanue@] has joined #lisp 10:10:08 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:10:44 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:10:53 -!- enupten [~neptune@] has quit [Quit: quitting...] 10:11:44 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu070.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:11:59 murilasso [~murilasso@] has joined #lisp 10:14:57 mrSpec 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11:05:40 flip214: try the mailing list 11:06:17 xach: ok, thanks 11:07:23 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:08:06 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-dgntcwdgjmtnucok] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:08:34 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:10:59 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-104-46.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:11:15 b-man_ [~b-man@] has joined #lisp 11:12:13 -!- arbscht_ is now known as arbscht 11:12:17 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-104-46.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:12:46 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-104-46.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:54 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-104-46.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:13:04 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-58-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:13:15 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:13:17 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-58-173.netcologne.de] has quit 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[~Salamande@ppp121-45-126-93.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:19:15 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:47 where does slime put it's sockets ? 12:20:00 Demosthenes [~demo@] has joined #lisp 12:20:10 it tells me something about /tmp/slime.3331 or so but i can't find anything there 12:20:13 minion: thwap to homie 12:20:14 homie: please look at thwap: THWAP! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif and http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif (see also: http://www.unmutual.info/misc/sb_itsits.mp3 ) 12:22:08 homie: AFAIK, slime doesn't use local sockets 12:22:37 ok but then what is this /tmp/slime.3331 thing ? 12:23:49 It's a tempory file where it writes the port number into 12:24:03 the swank side for the slime side to know where to connect to 12:24:07 but there is no such thing, i looked everywhere 12:24:19 it means something went wrong on the swank side 12:24:19 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 12:24:33 in /tmp in my /home/tmp etc and in my /var/tmp 12:24:51 look into the *inferior-lisp* buffer 12:25:19 /tmp/slime.3546 yes 12:25:25 polling it 12:25:46 ah the other buffer 12:26:59 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 12:27:29 nikodemus: Doesn't Xach's timer stuff contain a heap implementation? 12:27:36 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:27:53 I believe mine had a bug that mega1 fixed in the sbcl conversion. 12:28:14 and also added one myself 12:28:32 why is my quicklisp provided slime differing from the one i got with cvs ? 12:28:36 or maybe they are the same :-) 12:28:41 i don't get it 12:29:00 homie: ql presumably uses a specific snapshot that's known to work? 12:29:13 or.. that's supposed to be known to work 12:29:21 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:44 homie: quicklisp takes a snapshot of slime at a particular point in time. if you use cvs, it will change faster than quicklisp. 12:30:33 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:31:05 sellout- [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:18 ah ok 12:33:01 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 12:33:03 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:33:03 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 12:34:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:35:50 LiamH [~healy@129-2-135-218.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:36:57 where is #+ in the CLHS? 12:37:04 clhs #+ 12:37:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhq.htm 12:37:21 oh, cheers fe[nl]ix 12:38:23 what is the default float type for most of lisp systems ? 12:38:28 double single ? 12:38:35 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 12:38:44 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:38:48 or is it strictly implementation dependent ? 12:39:07 clhs *read-default-float-format* 12:39:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_rd_def.htm 12:41:07 thank you 12:41:10 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:02 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:44:55 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:47:19 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 12:55:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:57:34 astoon [~astoon@] has joined #lisp 12:57:40 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 12:58:41 tfb [~tfb@] has joined #lisp 12:59:06 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-114-166.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:59:07 symbole [~yaaic@146.sub-75-193-137.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:19 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:24 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: Eish!] 12:59:35 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@] has joined #lisp 12:59:36 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:00:54 aie! i need google juice. i've almost fallen off the first page of results for "nikodemus"! 13:01:33 gratz 13:02:39 If I use some other imperative programminglanguage, and only use functions, isn't that also functional programming? The only thing being that you have to implement the functions yourself? 13:03:06 Name - Syntard Class - Priest Race - Undead Level - 80. that's not me, honest 13:03:06 Joreji [~thomas@93-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:03:33 trigen: if you spell it with capital letters, side effects must be strongly discouraged at the language level. 13:03:46 trigen: yes, you can do functional programming in any language. some just provide better support for it 13:04:46 if you ask the real fp weenies, cl's support is weak and scheme's middling (or something like that) 13:04:47 I see, and Xach, what do you mean with side effects being discouraged at language level? 13:05:28 you mean if I have an error in some function, it breaks the whole more easily? 13:05:35 nikodemus: spell what with capital letters? 13:05:36 having to jump thought hoops -- or at least monads -- to have side effect? 13:05:49 FP? 13:05:59 fp = functional programming 13:06:17 *syntard* nods wisely 13:06:52 oh sorry, i didn't understand side effects was something to do with lisp, i'm googling it now 13:07:07 trigen: it isn't 13:07:11 it's a general term 13:07:27 *syntard* tries make a side effect on the world 13:07:28 trigen: CL supports functional programming style, but not to the exclusion of other styles. 13:08:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:08:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:08:46 side-effects like: modifying existing objects, assigning new values to already initialized variables, input/output. basically anything that can result in the effects of a function not being reducable to its return value 13:08:50 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@] has joined #lisp 13:09:30 if you're not clear on what functional programming is... 13:09:39 minion: tell trigen about sicp 13:09:39 trigen: please look at sicp: The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available under the CC-BY-NC Licence at (HTML), (Texinfo), and (PDF). Video lectures are available under the CC-BY-SA licence at 13:09:59 it's a lot more clear now thanks to your responses. 13:10:00 xyxxyyy2 [~xyxu@] has joined #lisp 13:10:07 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CDE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:15 it's the opposite of dysfunctional programing 13:10:24 lol ;) 13:10:37 read it, work thought the excercises, you'll be a better person for it. i still think SICP accounts for 80-90% of everything i know about programming 13:11:32 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 13:11:39 ACK ... SICP is *very* good reading material 13:12:13 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:12:26 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:12:42 i will check it out, bookmarked it. I had started with the Gentle introduction link that passed by earlier in this channel. 13:13:03 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:15:01 rpg [~rpg@] has joined #lisp 13:18:44 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:18:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:19:44 I was wondering --- I'm running SBCL with the compiler policy constrained to be debug = 2. Now I see local variables that I never saw before in the debugger, but a dismaying number of htem are "NOT AVAILABLE." 13:19:51 Is there some way of making more of them available? 13:19:57 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mbfjklervucaotua] has left #lisp 13:20:31 Or, if there is one I know I'm likely to want, to tell the compiler not to optimize it away? 13:20:45 PCChris [~PCChris@adsl-76-224-61-14.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:39 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 13:21:51 meandi [~meandi@dyndsl-178-142-062-199.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #lisp 13:22:32 sabalabas [~sabalaba@] has joined #lisp 13:22:44 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:10 -!- symbole [~yaaic@146.sub-75-193-137.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:24:02 -!- sabalabas [~sabalaba@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:37 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:27:36 rpg: depends. (debug 3) will preserve even more, but also bloat the code in all sorts of ways 13:28:39 nikodemus: thanks. The problem I'm having is that there's a place where the compiler is correctly noticing that a local variable is dead (I suspect), but unfortunately that dead variable contains the critical information that I need to do my debugging... 13:28:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:29:32 did you look with (describe-compiler-policy) what is available ? 13:29:44 rpg: well, debug 3 can certainly help with that :) 13:29:58 nikodemus: thanks. I can use that locally in cases like this. 13:29:59 rpg: speed < debug as well 13:30:12 nikodemus: how do you set the debugger to 3 ? 13:30:19 i mean globally ? 13:30:33 i would like to put that in my .sbclrc 13:30:34 restrict-compiler-policy 13:30:41 and setting it to 3 is a bad idea 13:30:48 oh 13:30:59 rpg: also, (declaim (notinline use)) (defun use (x) x) and then (use important) towards the end of your function will force the compiler to keep it alive 13:31:01 2 better than ? 13:31:03 stassats: why? 13:31:34 rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-165-176.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:35 homie: yes 13:31:39 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 13:31:43 flip214: because it's too much 13:31:44 ok 13:31:54 nikodemus: thank you very much. This will help a great deal. 13:31:59 nothings too much for the poor programmer ;-) 13:32:15 3 is "nothing is as important as debug information, so you're willing to will lose tail-calls, several optimizations, and your code will be instrumented from here to high heaven so that STEP and RESTART-FRAME and others will work" 13:32:20 rpg: Do you use slime? 13:32:21 locally it's OK 13:32:29 random question for SLIME users: what do you do when you want to interact with stuff in the debugger? E.g., you have a value in a stack frame and you want to work on it in the repl? 13:32:30 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:32:36 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:32:44 rpg: inspect it, hit M-RET 13:32:47 Xach: Not competently (see last question). My abilities with ELI are far better. 13:33:05 With slime, you can recompile individual defuns with C-u C-c C-c. That even works on stack frames. 13:33:10 Xach: inspecting isn't really what I want. I want to do things like apply functions to these things, and I need more than the minibuffer for that. 13:33:20 debug 3 is for when you know that something is not perfomance critical _ever_, but in a crucial place when it come to control flow, or when you're actively debugging something 13:33:25 I'm used to doing that in ELI, which doesn't stand between me and the debugger. 13:33:33 rpg: what Xach said does what you want 13:33:43 about inspector 13:34:06 rpg: Why do you assume I'm yanking your chain? 13:34:23 Xach: I didn't mean to give that impression. I'm genuinely puzzled. 13:34:27 but then, i tend to work on performance sensitive code, but for things which could just as well be in ruby or python DEBUG 3 can be just fine :) it just makes for big code and slowers compiles if the speed doesn't matter at all 13:34:33 rpg: What I told you is how you get something from the debugger to the repl. 13:34:59 rpg: If you don't like the detour through the inspector, you'll have to change slime. 13:35:15 you can copy the presentation directly to the repl using slime-copy-presentation-at-point-to-repl 13:35:19 Xach: but the repl isn't interactable, is it? I mean I'm still in the break loop, and *slime-repl* isn't working, is it? 13:35:36 of course it is 13:35:36 rpg: Why do you think that? 13:35:45 at least it wfm 13:36:01 Xach: because I have no prompt there. 13:36:07 i would be seriously annoyed if the slime debugger made repl stop 13:36:10 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@] has joined #lisp 13:36:22 i guess i should bind slime-copy-presentation-at-point-to-repl in the sldb to M-RET as well 13:36:25 rpg: type (+ 1 2) there and see what happens 13:36:34 What I've been doing is using (defvar *foo* ) and then jumping to *inferior-lisp* and working there. 13:36:39 rpg: After a M-RET you'll have a prompt. 13:36:42 It's great if that's not needed. 13:36:57 oh, but it's bound to C-c C-v C-r 13:36:59 the new prompt hasn't been printed because your last evaluation is still in progress, is what i'm guessing -- but the repl is still active 13:37:31 -!- chrnybo [~user@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:35 nikodemus: ah. I thought the repl wasn't active because it doesn't print the prompt. 13:37:37 rpg: so, you just get your point over the desired presentation and do C-c C-v C-r 13:37:46 stassats: great! 13:38:06 Xach: see --- I wasn't trying to bust on you --- I sincerely didn't understand how slime was expected to work. 13:38:23 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:38:59 *Xach* learns about C-c C-v C-r 13:39:01 I have always had trouble figuring out the whole debug interaction model for SLIME. 13:39:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:39:28 rpg: it would be really great if you could collect one-liner questions like that and send me them. excellent fodder for my sbcl+slime tutorial to come 13:39:30 chrnybo [~user@] has joined #lisp 13:40:03 and my greater competence with ELI has been a real deterrent --- there's a big step down in speed of use before I can get the benefit of learning well. 13:40:53 slime presentations are also right-click sensitive, so you don't have to remember the triple-chord 13:41:14 nikodemus: sigh. on aquamacs the presentation menu is busted. 13:41:39 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 13:41:46 C-c C-v is a common thing for presentations, e.g. C-c C-v C-i is for inspecting 13:42:07 rpg: upstream emacs build easy on os x, and works nicely for me at least 13:42:16 not that i've updated for a while now 13:43:14 "GNU Emacs (i386-apple-darwin9.8.0, NS apple-appkit-949.54) of 2009-11-13 on delirium.local" is what i'm running 13:43:49 -!- echo-are` [~user@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:48 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:46:26 nikodemus: I should give that a try. Every now and then I do try to get some work done, instead of tweaking my environment, but you'd never guess! ;-) 13:48:36 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:50:57 how to get rid of this warning? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/284973 13:51:31 in clsql-sys:acquire-from-pool. 13:51:34 leo2007: remove the always or the thereis. 13:51:38 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 13:51:48 leo2007: use a buggier LOOP implementation 13:51:54 leo2007: clhs is a little ambiguous about the returned result when you use both. 13:54:43 for working with database, which common lisp library would you recommend? 13:55:41 i'd write my own database in lisp 13:55:43 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu070.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:56:00 leo2007: I use postmodern. 13:56:26 Depends on the database. 13:56:37 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:56:47 And whether you want to be database-agnostic or not. 13:56:47 mysql or postgre 13:57:02 postmodern is only for postgresql. 13:57:15 I used clsql once, it was nice enough. 13:57:28 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:57:34 leo2007: postgres or sqlite depending on the needs of the application, and postmodern or cl-sqlite depending on the db 13:57:54 leo2007: and I would advise to consider an OO DB or an ORM. 13:57:58 http://www.cliki.net/database 13:58:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:58:53 pjb: I don't need database-agnostic. I just want one that works well with common lisp. 13:59:12 sqlite is a nice database that like lisp, doesn't type the columns, but the values. 13:59:26 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:59:31 This may have some advantage when storing lisp data... 13:59:41 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:00:23 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@adsl-76-224-61-14.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:01:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:01:40 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 14:01:58 and for working with sqlite, cl-sqlite is better clsql, right? 14:02:17 I suppose yes. 14:03:48 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:23 pavelludiq [~quassel@] has joined #lisp 14:04:50 benny` [~benny@i577A2F9D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:05:43 -!- meandi [~meandi@dyndsl-178-142-062-199.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:06:54 cmpitg [~cmpitg@] has joined #lisp 14:09:03 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:08 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:10:44 I have used clsql pretty happily. 14:11:06 It did a good job of protecting me from the SQL language 14:11:21 meandi [~meandi@dyndsl-085-016-088-155.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #lisp 14:11:39 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 14:12:19 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-55-13.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:16:10 ericklc [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 14:16:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:16:41 -!- ericklc is now known as ikki 14:17:28 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:18:40 Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@] has joined #lisp 14:19:00 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-163-248.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:19:20 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23:17 -!- blabla [~lisps@] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:23:42 I don't believe that this can be the explanation, but just want to check --- is there any reason within SBCL that I would see a regular stream of SIGUSR1 signals? I'm getting these signals, which seem spurious. 14:23:59 I suspect it's something specific about this laptop, but wanted to check. 14:25:27 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:26:16 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:26:20 rpg: #define SIG_STOP_FOR_GC (SIGUSR1) <- from src/runtime/darwin-os.h 14:27:12 hmm, that was an old SBCL 14:27:21 now it's SIGUSR2 14:27:57 rpg: though it's not sigusr1 but, I need (sb-sys:ignore-interrupt sb-unix:sigpipe) if using sbcl+slime+clsql 14:28:23 fe[nl]ix: Taht could be it. We are running a "stable for us" version of SBCL that's old. 14:28:46 And this /is/ a mac laptop. 14:29:13 fe[nl]ix: and, of course, when I did find + grep I checked .lisp, .c... but not .h... 14:29:19 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 14:30:19 -!- xinming [~hyy@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:33:03 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-135-218.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:35:05 xinming [~hyy@] has joined #lisp 14:35:43 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:01 hlavaty [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:07 -!- benny` is now known as benny 14:39:43 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:42:27 ikki [~ikki@] has joined #lisp 14:43:21 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:43:38 -!- superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: superflit] 14:45:33 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p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:55:57 -!- boscop_ is now known as boscop 16:56:28 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 16:59:05 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:59 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:00 -!- gor[e] [U2FsdGVkX1@] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 17:03:03 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 612 seconds] 17:03:03 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:06:02 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:07:26 So do we know the person leading the Google AI Contest? 17:08:15 we sure do! 17:08:22 we do? cool@ 17:08:25 ! 17:08:31 We can surely eliminate me from that list, sadly 17:08:35 Is it mega1? 17:08:47 wait sure is! 17:09:12 err...it sure is! 17:09:19 Xach: Thanks! 17:09:26 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:26 That's great actually! 17:09:49 _s1gma [~herpderp@] has joined #lisp 17:10:05 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:11:00 With his AI we will be able to defend our planet against hostile fleets from Megalon 14. 17:11:29 mega1: Congratulations! 17:13:36 nice :) 17:15:16 thanks 17:15:36 mega1: what's your secret? 17:15:45 is there a leaderboard? 17:15:52 dunno, it must be the others ;-) 17:16:02 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:16:06 http://ai-contest.com/rankings.php 17:16:22 and the unofficial training ground: 17:16:24 17:17:54 mega1: you should use a consistent nick! i spent some time yesterday tring to figure out who you were! :P 17:18:06 the official leaderboard seems broken. 17:18:56 mega1: great show btw, it's great to lisp ahead in a race between mostly java, c++ and python :) 17:19:23 Fade: it's your adblock 17:19:45 drewc: I use a nick for myself and another for the bot 17:19:59 two different entities :-) 17:20:11 mega1: fair enough :) 17:20:11 astoon [~astoon@] has joined #lisp 17:20:22 minion: are you a bot? 17:20:23 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 17:20:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:20:48 truth to tell I use the same name in all competitions 17:20:48 mega1: what does the nickname mean ? 17:22:48 it's a character from a bedtime story 17:22:58 6 pages long. 17:23:07 no special meaning 17:23:21 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:24:29 -!- jdz [~jdz@] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:24:30 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:55 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:26:07 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by 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joined #lisp 17:47:36 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@] has left #lisp 17:48:02 TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@] has joined #lisp 17:48:03 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:04 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:20 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:48:38 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:38 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:49:50 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 612 seconds] 17:50:22 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:55:10 hi all, does anyone here write lisp on a mac? 17:55:13 beaumonta [~abeaumont@] has joined #lisp 17:55:22 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:55:22 I been asked to install SBCL and Slime 17:55:31 just about every day 17:55:38 but I don't know if I can install SBCL on a mac 17:56:04 edlinde: ccl is the usual recommended CL on the mac 17:56:08 rme: am doing a very basic course in Lisp ... what can I install on my Mac? 17:56:12 edlinde: the usual free one, at least 17:56:28 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:29 is there a big difference between all these different Lisp implementations? 17:56:30 edlinde: search for clozure common lisp 17:56:40 edlinde: not that will make a difference for a basic course 17:56:43 Yeah I heard about Clozure for the mac 17:57:09 so all the normal functions like car, cdr etc are all available in Clozure? 17:57:25 edlinde: have you been specifically told to install SBCL and Slime? or does any Common Lisp implementation fit the bill? 17:57:25 edlinde: they're all there. The advantage of having a language with a specification 17:58:03 well not specifically told to do so , but the prof uses Ubuntu and Emacs as his editor... so I think he recommended that 17:58:18 If you want sbcl, you can get a binary from www.sbcl.org. If you want to try ccl, see http://ccl.clozure.com. 17:58:25 I heard that with different lisp implementations things might be slightly different... so I don't want to get stuck with the wrong one 17:58:38 is ccl and clozure the same thing? :) 17:59:09 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:59:18 ccl stands for Clozure Common Lisp. Clozure is the company that sponsors its development (I work for Clozure, btw). 17:59:41 ah cool rme 17:59:42 :) 17:59:44 edlinde: has the prof made requirements like "your submitted homework must run on X implementation y.y.y version" ? 17:59:51 nope 18:00:05 today he showed us things like "disassemble" 18:00:08 and "trace" 18:00:29 pretty neat stuff I thought... as long as there aren't features that are missing in CCL that are in SBCL then I am fine 18:00:44 also I am not an emacs user and use Textmate for my editing... is that ok? 18:00:53 coz I hear Slime is useful when you are using Emacs 18:00:56 edlinde: there's no slime for Textmate 18:01:08 and it's quite nice. I switched to emacs to use slime 18:01:09 do you guys recommend learning emacs? 18:01:18 yeah. It's pretty great, honestly. 18:01:28 learning emacs isn't all that complicated. 18:01:41 there's a tutorial and all iirc. 18:01:42 I tried once earlier on and I didn't like the number of commands to learn etc 18:01:46 edlinde: just use it like a normal text editor at first 18:01:49 edlinde: And since your teacher recommended Slime, it seems likely that he'll be able to answer emacs questions you have  so it's a good opportunity to learn it. 18:01:49 it's a text editor, not rocket science :) 18:01:50 edlinde: agreed. emacs+slime+paredit is killer 18:02:03 edlinde: arrow keys and such. Learn each key as you need it 18:02:18 edlinde: don't worry about navigating with the keyboard at first 18:02:19 edlinde: You don't need to learn commands. like dlowe says. arrow keys. Even click the menu with the mouse if you like. 18:02:22 hmm I think it was the number of buffers you could have 18:02:35 yeah, don't get fussy with closing every buffer you're not using 18:03:00 I notice in the lectures that the prof divides the emacs screen and compiles code and runs them in the other window 18:03:17 and then he is saving one buffer as opposed to another etc 18:03:22 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:03:29 also in emacs does it come with syntax highlighting? 18:03:32 if you want more emacs help, there's a #emacs channel 18:03:44 cool 18:03:47 edlinde: yes, it comes with everything you would expect from an editor 18:03:54 edlinde: install emacs. look at the tutorial. SLIME is really great. so for lisp it is worth it. 18:04:29 ok so can I have CCL + Slime + Emacs? 18:04:32 edlinde: I suggest paredit too :) 18:04:32 would that work as a combo 18:04:38 whats paredit? 18:04:39 edlinde: Yep 18:04:59 minion: tell edlinde about paredit 18:04:59 edlinde: look at paredit: a set of Emacs commands, with a minor mode for convenient access to them, for editing balanced S-expressions and a number of higher-level operations on S-expressions, at ; see also the #paredit channel 18:08:05 I'd avoid paredit until you are used to emacs. 18:08:52 true, it might be a bit much at first... save it for later 18:12:01 *Xach* went 5 or so years of lisping without paredit, is glad he finally switched 18:12:23 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:12:29 just downloaded Clozure for the mac and it has a CL32.app and a CL64.app 18:12:37 which one should I be installing? 18:12:57 are you on 32bit or 64bit os? 18:13:21 I will check 18:13:59 or both? 18:14:01 I think mac is weird in that it runs a 32 bit kernel by default but can run 64bit if you have the processor capability... 18:14:18 s/64bit/64bit software/ 18:14:24 I am on Mac OSX V 10.6.4 18:14:59 not sure if I should install the 32 bit one then? 18:15:09 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:39 any suggestions? 18:15:43 The .app things contain the lisp plus a fairly basic IDE. You can double-click them and you get editor and lisp listener windows. You can probably use either one. If you are going to use emacs and slime, you don't need them and should review http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/InstallingSlime. 18:15:45 64-bit is more cool, but may use more memory 18:15:50 varjag [~eugene@] has joined #lisp 18:15:52 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:15:57 edlinde: try 64 first 18:16:09 jdz [~jdz@host188-104-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:16:38 rme: sorry don't get you... are you saying I didn't need to install Clozure? 18:17:53 The bare lisp is called dx86cl (or dx86cl64). It's a command-line program. 18:18:38 man this is so confusing 18:18:59 rme: is it possible for you to run me through what I need? 18:19:12 I mean I just downloaded Clozure 32/64 now 18:19:16 Just run the one of the .app things and see if that works for you, then. 18:19:17 got emacs 18:19:19 fmeyer [~fmeyer@] has joined #lisp 18:19:20 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:27 but where does Slime come in? 18:19:36 You wouldn't use slime in that case. 18:20:02 ok does that screw things up for me? 18:20:04 :) 18:20:42 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #lisp 18:21:31 edlinde: if your professor is using SBCL, you might be happier complying... 18:22:02 edlinde: if you want Clozure, though, there's a trac wiki page that walks you through setup, IIRC. 18:23:01 rme: I just got the clozure lisp listener 18:23:07 is that where I put in the lisp commands? 18:23:24 yes, just type away. 18:23:39 ok will look up some lisp commands :) 18:23:40 Hmm, can you suggest a project that uses sb-grovel that isn't an SBCL contrib? 18:25:11 edlinde: important tip: write your lisp code in an editor window. To compile a given function, put the cursor within it, and type control-x control-c. You can get pretty far with just that. 18:25:14 Xach: xcvb 18:25:28 I'm using the sbcl 1.0.43 binary and it tells me CC wasn't set for sb-grovel. 18:25:28 rme: is this in emacs? 18:25:53 the editor windows in the ccl ide use an emacs-like editor called hemlock. 18:26:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:27:14 you can also highlight the function with the mouse and press cmd-e. 18:27:49 -!- phrixos [~miar1@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:11 rme: I was able to run some stuff in the window 18:28:22 and it highlights the brackets in blue 18:28:59 what does cmd-e do on function name? 18:29:05 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:12 phrixos [~miar1@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:29:19 rme: so I don't really need Slime? 18:30:06 rme: can I get some tutorials on how to use emacs + Clozure? 18:30:27 so I can type out my functions in Emacs editor and then test them on clozure listener window 18:30:42 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:31:17 stassats: I am too intimidated. 18:31:47 also is "Land of Lisp" a good Lisp book with details? 18:32:06 minion: tell edlinde about PCL 18:32:07 edlinde: please look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 18:33:40 edlinde: You're just going to have to pick it up as you go, I'm afraid. Like I said, you can get pretty far with an editor window (File-> 18:34:19 New) in the IDE and just using cmd-E to evaluate whatever lisp forms you have highlighted. 18:34:38 why not just use emacs+slime+ccl? 18:34:46 Otherwise, you'll probably want to get some local help installing what your professor uses. 18:34:58 with PCL I hear that this book is not big on details 18:35:08 I mean this is what the prof said 18:35:35 edlinde: PCL is quite accurate and doesn't dumb things down 18:36:15 edlinde: you might like touretzky. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 18:36:17 edlinde: after (or while) you read it you can check the gory details in the Common Lisp HyperSpec 18:37:04 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@] has left #lisp 18:39:46 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:40:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has left #lisp 18:40:51 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:41:13 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 18:41:22 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:32 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:41:48 -!- dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:43:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:16 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:43:26 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:45:16 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:55:54 dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:55 murilasso [~murilasso@] has joined #lisp 18:56:42 -!- lune_ [~claire@] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:57:05 lune [~claire@] has joined #lisp 18:59:19 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-215-137.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 19:00:20 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 19:01:14 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:01:45 -!- jdz [~jdz@host188-104-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:04:35 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:04:51 gonzojive [~red@] has joined #lisp 19:06:28 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 19:06:37 kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:55 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-215-137.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:19 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:08:28 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:13:50 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:16:00 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 19:16:55 xach: You told me to go to the mailing list with my CLSQL question. 19:17:14 I did. 19:17:52 that would be fine ... but the list is moderated, I get no answer if I try to subscribe in the web interface, and the moderators didn't even process my mail in August ... 19:18:19 flip214: Sorry to hear that! I had the impression that it was easier than that to use the mailing list. 19:18:27 And it's not simple greylisting - I did try to subscribe about half an hour ago. 19:18:38 So there seems to be more broken. 19:18:53 _s1gma [~herpderp@] has joined #lisp 19:19:03 I'll try the mailman address, but don't have much hope. 19:19:07 vy [~user@] has joined #lisp 19:19:11 Just so you know. Thanks anyway! 19:19:19 kriyative [~user@ip65-44-141-106.z141-44-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:35 How in the earth Nikodemus misses binomial-heap at cliki? Bah! 19:19:40 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:19:48 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:06 _s1gma [~herpderp@] has joined #lisp 19:20:08 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:43 -!- rpg [~rpg@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:08 rpg [~rpg@] has joined #lisp 19:21:26 -!- rpg [~rpg@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:43 rpg [~rpg@] has joined #lisp 19:21:48 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:35 xach: did you manage to include clsql-fluid (thread-safe clsql) in quicklisp? I don't see anything related in releases.html. 19:25:03 No. 19:25:16 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:41 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has left #lisp 19:25:49 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:26:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:33:50 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-116.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:34:21 well, lets hope that mailman@ answers .... good night everyone. 19:35:36 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-114-166.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:39:12 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:13 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:29 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:43:02 -!- TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@] has quit [Quit: TheEnd2012] 19:44:33 Bronsa [~bronsa@host66-181-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:46:39 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:47:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@] has joined #lisp 19:49:39 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host66-181-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:49:59 Bronsa [~bronsa@host66-181-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:55:02 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-135-84.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 19:57:36 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:57:37 _ace4016_ [ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:43 -!- _ace4016_ is now known as ace4016 19:57:49 fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:05 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:59:09 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:05:07 guille_ [~user@] has joined #lisp 20:05:24 hi 20:06:59 hi guille_ 20:07:03 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:07:10 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 20:07:26 is there a way to dummify eval-when table for me? 20:08:41 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:47 *syntard* googles 20:08:52 syntard: what does that mean? 20:09:02 syntard: like, what options should you use when? 20:09:15 yeah 20:09:26 syntard: you should always use :compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute. 20:09:44 all three? 20:09:48 Yes. 20:10:23 wrap all code in each file in one eval-when? 20:11:08 That's an interesting idea. Where did you get it from? 20:11:24 for you... 20:11:36 I don't think I can continue to help, sorry. 20:11:52 I offended? 20:12:57 syntard: I'm worried I might say something that will give you more bad ideas, despite my best intentions. 20:13:02 -!- kriyative [~user@ip65-44-141-106.z141-44-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:13:30 Xach: I won't blame you 20:13:42 syntard: unless you're doing something very deep wrt the compiler, you should always use :compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute together. 20:13:53 Fare: It's a trap! 20:13:54 -!- kjs3 [~kjs3@c-24-99-86-210.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:13:57 I once wrote an article to explain why. 20:13:59 when something goes wrong (not if), I won't blame anyone 20:14:05 Fare's article is pretty terrible. 20:14:09 :( 20:14:14 Why do you think you need eval-when? A common reason is that a macro uses a helper function that you define earlier in the same file. 20:14:33 -!- Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:40 syntard: Well, the first step is to not use eval-when unless you need it. When you need it, use :compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute 20:14:42 reme: that was the reason I wanted to know when to use eval when. 20:14:55 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:14:56 Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@] has joined #lisp 20:15:18 syntard: when you need something to eval at compile time 20:15:20 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host66-181-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:15:20 -!- Kad_k_LaP is now known as LaPingvino 20:15:28 Xach: fare enough 20:15:50 syntard: If you're wondering if you need eval-when, the answer is probably "no". 20:16:10 You tend to need eval-when when you're wondering something else. Like "Why can't I use this function to help expand my macro?" 20:16:10 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:38 Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@] has joined #lisp 20:16:39 as rme said 20:16:52 Xach: awesome 20:17:01 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-116.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:17:45 I'll skip the rest of that section 20:17:57 syntard: What section? 20:18:05 hello 20:18:12 Xach: cltl2 eval-when 20:18:15 some of you are on Reddit? 20:18:41 some are 20:19:04 I created /r/lispgamedev and almost immediately 50 members joined 20:19:17 so thanks to those who are here and joined :) 20:19:37 and those who are not on reddit, maybe you would like to participate there :) 20:19:44 Kad_k_LaP: maybe #lispgames would also be interested 20:19:50 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:54 -!- Kad_k_LaP is now known as LaPingvino 20:19:59 true :) 20:20:03 one moment :) 20:20:17 grr. I have no MIT contact anymore for a room for the BLM. 20:21:21 message dropped 20:22:18 Xach: but LT and CT make EX irrelevant, no? 20:22:37 syntard: Maybe you should read Fare's article after all. 20:22:48 *syntard* yes 20:23:09 syntard: If you get past the editorial and still want to learn CL, it will show you that you really want all three. 20:23:26 http://fare.livejournal.com/146698.html is it 20:23:31 unless you don't 20:23:44 Exactly. 20:23:48 *syntard* hums with a lisp 20:25:13 -!- vy [~user@] has left #lisp 20:26:08 i used to use toplevel macrolets, then i discovered eval-when :compile-toplevel and never looked back :P 20:26:55 huh? 20:27:06 that's a pain when you're trying to use C-c C-c 20:27:24 I suppose if you use it in a way similar to #. or KMP's META operator 20:32:09 stassats: C-c C-k is my usual rule for macro-using stuff anyway 20:32:34 i don't have a real computer for that 20:33:24 that said, i usually don't care and just leave the macro around after it's no longer needed. 20:33:52 it was just the only example i could figure where i've used eval-when without all three arguments 20:34:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:34:43 Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-57-3.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:41:15 fmeyer [~fmeyer@] has joined #lisp 20:43:01 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:45:05 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:02 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:54:00 Zhuangzi [~zhuangzi@unaffiliated/zhuangzi] has joined #lisp 20:54:53 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:57:30 -!- varjag [~eugene@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:02:53 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:10 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:38 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:41 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:04:49 Xach: I wadled through Fare's article 21:06:03 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:06:10 Not sure I want to know more 21:07:29 yeah, writing that article had that effect on me, too 21:09:47 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:10:08 Fare: scared to think what you consider non-trivial metaprogramming? 21:10:53 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:57 rme: you there? 21:11:08 edlinde: yes 21:11:33 gigamonkey's once-only is non-trivial to me 21:11:37 rme: when I download Clozure for macosx dmg... I see a whole bunch of files and folders 21:11:38 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 21:11:41 what do I do with them? 21:11:58 I just moved "Clozure 64.app" to my Applications folder on the mac 21:12:25 -!- jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:18 rme: any suggestions? 21:13:35 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:13:45 fgump [~gauthamg@] has joined #lisp 21:14:15 Should I just copy ALL the contents of that DMG somewhere on my filesystem? 21:14:31 like /usr/local 21:14:35 fare: what article? 21:15:05 Guthur: http://fare.livejournal.com/146698.html 21:15:14 edlinde: It is possible to just use Clozure CL64.app as you are doing. If the disk image contains a ccl folder, just copy it somewhere handy, like /usr/local/src or to your home directory. 21:15:27 noisetonepause [~noisetone@space.labitat.dk] has joined #lisp 21:15:42 Then you can run the lisp from a terminal (or from emacs) by running /usr/local/src/ccl/dx86cl64. 21:15:58 i dont see a ccl directory 21:16:10 minion: tell edlinde about slime 21:16:11 edlinde: look at slime: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/slime 21:16:12 there is scripts, tools, xdump etc 21:16:20 then just copy the whole disk image to a folder called ccl. 21:16:31 edlinde: you really want to start ccl from within emacs using slime :) 21:16:35 under /usr/local/src/ccl ? 21:16:43 drewc: yeah yeah I am trying to do that 21:16:49 or, probably even better, check it out from svn. see http://ccl.clozure.com/download.html 21:17:05 cd /usr/local/src && svn co http://svn.clozure.com/publicsvn/openmcl/release/1.6/ccl 21:17:37 make that svn co http://svn.clozure.com/publicsvn/openmcl/release/1.6/darwinx86/ccl 21:17:49 ok 21:17:58 -!- noisetonepause [~noisetone@space.labitat.dk] has left #lisp 21:19:27 quidnunc [~user@bas1-montreal46-2925427608.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:20:03 edlinde: when that's done, read http://ccl.clozure.com/ccl-documentation.html#command-line-setup 21:20:25 then follow http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/InstallingSlime if you want to. 21:21:19 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:22:23 vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-45-133.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:30 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:20 someone point me to the best lisp book? free/hardcopy i don't mind 21:23:44 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A76A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:23:45 minion: tell vokoda about PCL 21:23:46 vokoda: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 21:24:19 austin: thank you 21:24:29 *austinh 21:24:39 I'm assuming that you mean, "best introduction" 21:25:03 "best introduction to Common Lisp" 21:26:11 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:12 urandom__ [~user@p548A5430.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:29 meandi [~meandi@dyndsl-178-142-059-072.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #lisp 21:30:32 how often does one rely on CL equality predicates without writing custom ones? 21:30:36 austinh: yes this is exactly what i was looking for 21:30:51 -!- meandi2 [~meandi@dyndsl-178-142-058-019.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:31:06 vokoda: good. It's a very popular book and the author hangs out here often. 21:33:27 What is the general usage of Quicklisp up to now? Is it taking over the (CL) world yet? 21:34:26 Zhuangzi: I've been encouraged by its reception. There is still a lot of work to do. 21:34:53 Zhuangzi: Right now it's helpful for people who know what they want and want to get it easily. It's not as good for people who want to explore what's available. 21:36:30 Xach: So the intent is, somewhen, for it to be so complete -- package-wise -- that even those exploring what's available can do it via Quicklisp? 21:37:31 Zhuangzi: It's not coverage of projects right now but availability of descriptive information and other metadata, like "Do other people use and recommend this project?" 21:37:51 *Zhuangzi* nods 21:38:28 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:32 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:39:34 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 21:39:37 Xach: Indeed, the social aspect can be interesting. Do you plan on a web interface for voting/commenting packages? 21:42:28 Yes. 21:43:31 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:43:57 rme: I get this error ---> Error: File "/Users/ed/.emacs.d/elpa/slime-20100404/swank-loader.lisp" does not exist. 21:44:14 Xach: Looking forward to it! :-) 21:45:15 -!- gonzojive [~red@] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 21:47:58 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:48:17 kenanb [~kenanb@] has joined #lisp 21:48:59 it will be a runaway hit, like Apple's ping! 21:49:57 ouch ((: 21:50:02 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:50:22 guille_` [~user@li139-66.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:59 I'd never heard of it. But that's because I'm not cool. I do try to be cool, but it's expensive. 21:51:23 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-163-248.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:52:10 -!- guille_ [~user@] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:52:17 Zhuangzi: apple's ping is not really a runaway hit (: 21:53:15 I got that. :-P 21:53:28 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:55:24 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5430.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:30 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@] has left #lisp 21:58:23 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:58:27 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:09 Xach: Have you considered putting up a meter showing how much donation is still needed to host the archive? 22:00:04 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:00:22 -!- milanj [~milanj_@77-46-187-24.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:02:55 Zhuangzi: will you be minister of my kingdom? 22:05:59 Xach, is there any other package delivery system (for any language) that provides/uses that sort of metadata? 22:06:06 Fare: Go to hell, enslaved pig! 22:06:08 or are you breaking new ground with QL 22:08:07 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:26 I will certainly donate to the hosting. 22:08:51 Donated! Hurrah! 22:08:59 *Zhuangzi* hands out parenthesis-shaped cake slices to everyone 22:09:21 Guthur: C/Unixoids, with freshmeat? (: 22:09:45 also, I suppose the debian package popularity contest sounds similar 22:09:50 (although more technocratic) 22:10:28 gonzojive [~red@] has joined #lisp 22:10:38 oh yeah I didn't think of that 22:10:51 Wait, you're both Zhuangzi AND Nasreddin Hodja? 22:11:17 Fare: What can I say? I'm a busy guy. 22:11:44 obviously. And your mule programs in Java? 22:12:12 Well at least we've established it's my mule, not yours. 22:12:38 Now, if we could turn the conversation to your wife, I mean, my wife... 22:13:11 edlinde: I'm not very up-to-date on all the ways emacs configuration can go awry, I'm afraid. I don't know what that elpa business might be. 22:13:14 :) 22:13:27 rme: I managed to get slime working now 22:13:32 with emacs and clozure 22:13:51 Congratulations, then. Good luck. 22:14:13 thanks! 22:14:17 was a headache 22:14:17 \ 22:14:59 i typed in something stupid in SLIME 22:15:03 and now I want to get rid of it 22:15:06 how do I do that? 22:15:13 I get options 0-5 22:15:48 anyone? 22:15:52 edlinde: Pick an option. 22:16:06 or maybe hit 'q' 22:16:13 i did try q 22:16:16 nothing hapened 22:16:25 chose 1 and it wants me to supply a value to it 22:17:23 why didn't you read the tags for the restarts? they pretty much tell you what they're going to do when selected. 22:17:32 one of them should have been abort. 22:20:02 -!- astoon [~astoon@] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:23:15 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 22:24:42 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:25:53 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 22:26:14 has anyone read the book " Land of the Lisp"? 22:27:14 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:14 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 22:28:49 edlinde: it was only published 6 days ago 22:29:10 wow 22:29:11 ok 22:29:13 didn't know that 22:30:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-37.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:40 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:44 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas1-montreal46-2925427608.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:32:46 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:35:25 -!- gonzojive [~red@] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 22:36:33 rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:48 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 22:37:20 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 22:37:21 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:36 p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:38:57 b-man_ [~b-man@] has joined #lisp 22:41:13 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:44:58 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:49:27 gonzojive [~red@] has joined #lisp 22:49:47 varjag [~eugene@] has joined #lisp 22:51:42 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050066145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:52:32 I watched the music video and read the comic. Quality material as always from the bearded master. 22:55:25 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:55:31 -!- meandi [~meandi@dyndsl-178-142-059-072.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 22:56:50 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:49 _s1gma [~herpderp@] has joined #lisp 22:58:00 upwardindex1 [~Adium@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:58:56 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-135-84.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:44 The dead tree version will be available on Amazon on December 14th, or so they told me. 23:00:08 -!- upwardindex [~Adium@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:00:54 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:01:02 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-44.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 23:02:50 cpt_nemo [~cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 23:03:57 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:05:09 He didn't have a beard the last time I saw him. 23:05:18 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:05:19 how do i get in the mood for lisp programming when feel really non programmery 23:05:32 Do something else for a while instead? 23:05:44 thats what i did all day. 23:06:27 dto: Just do it. You don't need to be in a mood to program. 23:06:46 -!- gonzojive [~red@] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 23:07:06 schmrkc: hi 23:07:24 schmrkc: facebook has an "i voted" button at the top of everything today. 23:07:28 and i just clicked it baby 23:07:29 :) 23:07:35 dto: pick any simple problem that you can bring yourself to tackle, work on that. when done, either the day is over or you can pick another problem (: 23:07:50 antifuchs: hmm i'll look at my Org todo file 23:07:52 -!- cpt_nemo [~cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:00 dto: see, that's the spirit (: 23:08:29 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 23:08:38 dto: No it doesn't 23:09:31 schmrkc: that's because fb knows you didn't vote 23:09:48 antifuchs: I didn't know it was voting time. 23:09:56 well, there. 23:10:05 I think its in 4 years 23:10:09 bearded master - are you talking 'bout Conrad Barski? 23:10:18 schmrkc: it's only for USians 23:10:23 oh 23:10:27 hi fare. 23:10:35 what you guys voting on? 23:10:43 the future of our planet 23:10:47 there's a lot on someprop. 19 ireported on 23:10:55 wow keyboard 23:10:55 i'm not sure what that is. 23:10:57 -!- upwardindex1 [~Adium@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:08 it is the marijuana thing that you are voting on 23:11:10 i voted to repeal an alcohol tax today. 23:11:12 its all over the news 23:11:15 schmrkc: that's california. 23:11:21 right, thats USA 23:11:25 you have other voting going on? 23:11:40 these are the midterm elections (i.e. the middle of obamas first term.) 23:11:48 huh ok 23:11:51 during which the presidents party typically historically loses some seats. 23:11:57 why do you vote in the middle of it? 23:12:00 upwardindex [~Adium@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:12:12 congressional terms are 2 years so everybody's up every 2 years. 23:12:19 hmm ok 23:12:25 the senate is 6 years and it's staggered so only some senators are up for re election. 23:12:29 sounds complicated 23:12:30 also state governors 23:12:43 schmrkc: let's go to #lispgames for more :) 23:12:48 we're noisyu 23:12:50 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:12:50 noisy 23:13:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk much related 23:13:20 ho ok 23:13:57 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 23:14:37 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:18 unkanon [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 23:20:38 hey Fare, i sent you an email about the blm speaking, just let me know if you are still on for anything in November. i am making plenty of progress. 23:21:17 gonzojive [~red@] has joined #lisp 23:21:41 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:23:03 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:23:15 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:25 -!- gonzojive [~red@] has quit [Client Quit] 23:24:49 jdz [~jdz@host188-104-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:25:12 -!- varjag [~eugene@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:25:47 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:30:26 leo2007 [~leo@] has joined #lisp 23:32:49 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:35:55 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-45-133.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: vokoda] 23:38:27 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-190.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 23:40:30 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-104-226.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:40:36 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-104-226.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:42:38 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-104-46.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:43:14 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-104-46.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:43:28 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:48:54 dto: I'm looking to reserve a room. Getting back to you when I have it. 23:49:06 Wanna do a rehearsal over skype, one of these weekends? 23:49:17 -!- krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:50:33 trigen [~MSX@] has joined #lisp 23:51:16 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 23:51:47 re..hear..sal? 23:54:00 xan_ [~xan@c-98-210-193-9.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:34 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:55:10 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:56:00 are there local variants of symbol-function(value)? 23:57:57 Kad_k_LaP [~LaPingvin@] has joined #lisp 23:57:59 syntard: nope. 23:58:16 Because local (i.e. lexical) names no longer exist at run time. 23:58:17 syntard: if you know the local function's name, you can use #'local-function 23:58:19 gigamonkey: ever had the need for them? 23:58:34 antifuchs: ok 23:58:36 syntard: nope. 23:59:04 but no way to do things like (dolist (my-name '(local-function-name1 local-functino-name2)) (magic-special-form my-name)) 23:59:12 because magic-special-form doesn't exist (; 23:59:24 humasect: I think dto is doing a presentation of some thing at some lisp gettogether. what a splendid thing to get to do rehearsal for a presentation. 23:59:31 (dolist (fn (list #'local-function-name1 #'local-function-name2)) (funcall fn)) 23:59:38 gigamonkey: yes, that. 23:59:47 schmrkc: ahh, cool!