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rich_holygoat_ is now known as rich_holygoat 01:39:25 -!- derrida [~derrida@undesign.us] has quit [Changing host] 01:39:25 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 01:39:30 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:39:32 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:39:32 eihrul_ [~eihrul@ip72-193-224-224.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:34 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:15 cl-irc [~cl-irc@xdsl-78-34-219-117.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:40:22 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 01:41:03 hello 01:41:11 ah 01:41:37 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 01:41:42 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 01:41:42 dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 01:41:42 bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 01:41:42 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mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 01:41:42 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 01:41:42 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 01:41:46 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:42:34 -!- lune [614c3062@gateway/web/freenode/ip.97.76.48.98] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:42:45 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 01:43:11 why is there no real documentation howto use this cl-irc thing there ? 01:44:12 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 01:44:29 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 01:45:29 I am getting an unused ARGLIST warning in http://paste.pocoo.org/show/AYbhIf6xIy3gYwL4onXZ/. Is there a fix without changing CCL? 01:46:06 what is ccl ? 01:47:45 -!- cl-irc [~cl-irc@xdsl-78-34-219-117.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:48:55 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 01:50:59 wbooze: clozure cl 01:51:18 sabalaba__ [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has joined #lisp 01:51:58 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:52:23 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:15 eslick [~eslick@173-11-104-25-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:04 -!- sabalaba__ [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has quit [Client Quit] 02:02:23 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 02:02:34 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:02:34 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:05:50 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:15:22 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:15:29 ejohnson [~elliott@99-100-65-163.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:53 Demosthenes [~demo@71.16.32.93] has joined #lisp 02:26:01 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:35:19 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night folks] 02:37:14 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:38:00 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:19 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:39:53 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 02:42:55 -!- eslick [~eslick@173-11-104-25-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:43:14 -!- dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f721541.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:43:28 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f7362d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:11 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:58 <_mathrick> tic: you work(ed?) for Opera, no? Do you have any idea what exactly its business model is? I don't really understand where they make money, if at all 02:46:59 -!- jweiss [~weissj@cpe-069-134-025-078.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:47:45 _mathrick: Did you decide on what to do with matlab code vs maxima? (That was you wasn't it?) 02:47:57 _mathrick: you pay for their browser 02:48:18 also, companies like Nintendo have huge licensing deals with them 02:48:29 i think they provide the browser for Wii or something like that 02:48:35 similar with many mobile platforms 02:48:36 <_mathrick> rtoym: yes, it was me, but we haven't had the time to sit down and try it out yet 02:48:55 i have some acquaintances working in Opera, btw 02:48:57 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:48:58 <_mathrick> OliverUv: I thought opera was free since 9.0 or so? 02:49:13 <_mathrick> I knew about Mini, but that free these days too 02:49:19 <_mathrick> but I forgot about Wii & friends 02:49:29 _mathrick: I know it's been free to download, but they don't have any pay-for version at all? 02:49:41 <_mathrick> I don't believe so 02:49:45 _mathrick: Ok. Just curious. 02:49:47 <_mathrick> I think you can buy it if you really want to 02:49:52 i also have a hard time understanding where all their money come from then :P 02:49:57 <_mathrick> rtoym: appreciated :) 02:50:15 i'm going to meditate and then head to bed, good night y'all 02:50:22 <_mathrick> night 02:50:42 <_mathrick> that's actually a very good observation, it's night so hard it'll be morning soon 02:50:44 <_mathrick> g'night 02:50:47 _mathrick: I was just curious if you took the maxima path and wanted to know what shortcomings you might have found. 02:51:04 <_mathrick> rtoym: ah, that'll be hopefully tomorrow 02:54:01 -!- franki^_ is now known as franki^ 02:55:34 pydroid [~kenny@bb116-14-56-21.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 02:58:07 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:58:08 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 02:58:08 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:00:09 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:00:56 -!- franki^ [~frankie@ajax.webvictim.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:00:56 franki^ [~frankie@unaffiliated/franki] has joined #lisp 03:03:30 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:10:32 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:10:39 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-199-110.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:39 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 03:17:10 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:22:39 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:26:36 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 03:27:01 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:44 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 03:33:07 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 03:33:20 hello? 03:34:18 hi kmwallio 03:34:46 I was wondering if anyone could explain a "Return-from block Nil is impossible from here" error... 03:35:08 You might want to provide the producing code ... 03:35:28 via paste.lisp.org/new/lisp 03:38:02 http://paste.lisp.org/display/115730 03:38:16 the max-value and min-value are the one's giving the error 03:41:06 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:20 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:56 See return-from. 03:42:13 (return-from max-value X) 03:42:15 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:36 As a note, that's really ugly style. 03:43:20 What is the catch for? 03:43:58 I googled the error... 03:44:01 Notice that dolist has a block nil, so RETURN will exit from the dolist, nothing else. (dolist (x '(1 2 3 4)) (print x) (return 42)) prints 1 and returns 42. 03:44:08 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:45:06 kmwallio: on the other hand, defun has a block named by the function name, so the first two returns in both your functions cannot return from anywhere, since they're not in a block named nil. 03:45:47 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 03:46:58 that's slightly odd... 03:47:59 It takes a little getting used to. 03:48:13 You can introduce blocks explicitly with block as well. 03:48:23 (block foo (return-from foo 1)) 03:49:07 or (block nil (return 1)) 03:49:14 Just so. 03:49:23 ie. (defun foo () (block nil .... (if ... (return 42)))) 03:49:44 is there any specific reason lisp does this, or is it just one of the quirks to get used to? 03:49:47 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:53 like name-space or something? 03:49:55 But return-from is better, because it allow you to more easily move code around, without thinking about it. 03:51:04 kmwallio: return-from, block, catch aren't something you use in every function you write 03:51:33 for example, your first two returns are not needed at all. 03:51:42 Well, because they're sensible primitives for non-local transfer. 03:52:05 block/return do lexical definitions, catch/throw do dynamic. 03:52:32 yeah, I noticed trying catch/throw wound up with the wrong results from what I wanted 03:52:35 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:53:24 (let ((tag (gensym))) (catch tag (throw tag 1))) 03:55:22 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] 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[~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 07:25:47 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:30 Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has joined #lisp 07:26:43 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:28:17 Good morning everyone! 07:28:20 Hello mvilleneuve 07:29:14 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:28 splittist [~John@170-145.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:33:31 morning 07:35:35 -!- andreas [~andreas@p579F8725.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:05 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:36:14 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 07:36:55 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:08 _mathrick, work for Opera, yes. 07:37:36 _mathrick, search money from desktop, and licenses for mobile/settop boxes. 07:37:49 hello splittist 07:37:58 hello tic 07:38:33 heya spiaggia :-) 07:38:47 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:39:37 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 07:40:04 *_mathrick* waves to spiaggia 07:40:20 <_mathrick> tic: I see 07:40:28 <_mathrick> thanks 07:40:40 _mathrick: How are things? 07:41:38 <_mathrick> spiaggia: varied. I've graduated 3 weeks ago 07:41:50 Oh, nice! Congratulations! 07:41:57 <_mathrick> thanks 07:42:02 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:42:15 _mathrick, congrats! 07:42:38 <_mathrick> thanks :) 07:44:34 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-25-78.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:13 andreas [~andreas@ip-109-42-69-187.web.vodafone.de] has joined #lisp 07:47:41 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:01 zac31415` [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:26 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:49:50 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 07:52:36 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 07:52:41 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:05 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:58:36 -!- mbohun 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[~nyef@pool-64-222-178-106.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:14 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:20 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:27:10 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:29:17 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-219-117.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:29:30 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-204.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:29:46 (read-from-string "193706.46") gives me 193706.45 in sbcl .... is this the expected behaviour or is this a bug? 11:30:26 stokachu` [~user@nat/redhat/x-zquxlwzezmkkatrr] has joined #lisp 11:31:25 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-204.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:32:11 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-219-117.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:32:32 Harag: I don't know offhand. You know that the fractional part is represented internally as 128ths and not 100ths, though, right? 11:32:34 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:32:58 (Well, possibly 64ths.) 11:33:03 Harag: try 193706.46d0 instead 11:33:42 Ah, right, and there's the mantissa length to contend with. 11:33:43 nyef: not exactly but i suspected something todo with the internal rep 11:33:44 minion: tell Harag about floating-point 11:33:44 Harag: please see floating-point: What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic http://docs-pdf.sun.com/800-7895/800-7895.pdf http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=103163 http://focus.hut.fi/docs/WorkShop/common/ug/goldberg1.doc.html 11:34:01 also 11:34:06 clhs *read-default-float-format* 11:34:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_rd_def.htm 11:34:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:34:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:35:00 floating point is hard. unless you're doing either graphics programming or scientific simulations, you shouldnae use it 11:35:47 thank you guys 11:35:50 damn, and i thought my p4 was slow, until it broke down and i have to use a celeron from 2003 11:35:59 i'll need to optimize my programs further 11:36:05 Any University or programming school letting go graduates who would wonder about (read-from-string "193706.46") should be closed. 11:36:23 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-204.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:36:26 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-204.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:36:32 pjb: ack 11:36:52 pjb: I was never fortunate enough to study programming so its just a lack of knowledge on my side 11:37:13 stassats: You can have my old p133, if you /really/ want to see slow. Or I'm sure someone can dig up a 486... 11:37:28 ...sx 11:37:47 Harag: no problem, the document linked by minion gives you all the raunchy details. 11:37:54 i used a 486 a couple of years ago, with X and Emacs 11:38:52 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-204.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:39:30 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-55-25.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:39:43 Given ratios and bignums and so on, I think that wondering about that is not unreasonable. 11:40:00 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-204.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:41:47 and compiling with SBCL is now not just "slower than CCL", but annoyingly slow 11:42:51 Heh. If you're building SBCL itself, you might try killing threads and unicode. I've been suspecting for a little while now that the two could be slowing down the build measurably. 11:43:05 (Though I have yet to attempt to measure the difference.) 11:44:26 is there a CL that supports arm (cortex-m) properly? i tried to get ECL to work, but building a cross compiler with it is slightly undocumented 11:44:36 -!- scharan [~scharan@nat/yahoo/x-vzapktcxedlrixxc] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:44:45 ccl supports some arms 11:45:20 "would you hug a child with a cortex arm"? 11:45:25 There's a work-in-progress SBCL port to ARM, but it doesn't get much attention... 11:46:07 i'm currently thinking of writing part of my embedded app in CL, but i fear the only lisp that works on that machine is guile 11:46:34 Much as I hate to recommend clisp, have you considered trying clisp? 11:47:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:48:08 i tried for about 10 minutes, but the configure failed with a syntax error in expr 11:48:15 i'll try trunk 11:48:45 you are giving up too easy 11:49:19 day job. if it doesn't work soon enough, i'll take the road i know to work :) 11:51:29 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:52:13 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:53:53 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:54:01 -!- loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:55:04 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:50 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:57:17 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:06 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:05:50 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07:15 tfb [~tfb@92.40.118.125.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:07:24 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 12:07:57 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 12:13:19 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:14:43 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@71.16.32.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:16:44 Drakeson [~user@76-10-155-49.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 12:16:44 -!- Drakeson [~user@76-10-155-49.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:16:44 Drakeson [~user@unaffiliated/drakeson] has joined #lisp 12:18:10 -!- Drakeson [~user@unaffiliated/drakeson] has left #lisp 12:18:14 building sbcl took just 32 minutes 12:19:01 *stassats* imagines doing bisecting 12:20:03 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 12:21:40 zomgbie [~jesus@86.59.96.6] has joined #lisp 12:25:28 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:26:02 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:27 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.215] has joined #lisp 12:27:46 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 12:28:07 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:29:23 cddr [~user@mail.formedix.com] has joined #lisp 12:32:06 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:32:38 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:33:10 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:25 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@86.59.96.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:37:25 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.78.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:11 sabalaba__ [~sabalaba@114.240.90.108] has joined #lisp 12:42:29 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:42:48 what's up with people removing pages and links non-DFSG licensed software on cliki? 12:43:46 i'm wondering also 12:43:58 I've noticed it going on for a couple of weeks and wondered if this an editorial policy or just someone's axe to grind 12:44:00 Seems a bit odd for a site about "free software" lisp stuff for unix systems, huh? 12:44:49 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:45:24 it doesn't mean you need to go and delete useful information slightly not conforming to some rules 12:45:35 cliki.net is about free software. 12:45:48 ClikiContent was changed itself to list "the License terms it's available under" to "listed software should satisfy the Debian Free Software Guidelines" 12:46:17 Okay, when did /that/ change? 12:46:20 But I agree that it'd be better if we weren't too strick about it and just use it as a resource center for Common Lispers. 12:47:12 <_3b```> yeah, seems more useful as a 'info about CL' wiki than just a 'link to free CL software' site 12:47:18 pjb- sure. I'm happier with DFSG but cliki is a home for links and info 12:47:36 some are free as in beer, but not DFSG free 12:47:43 *shrugs* 12:47:54 sellout [~greg@64.134.66.112] has joined #lisp 12:48:38 <_3b```> particularly when we can't even keep the spam off it, deleting stuff about CL seems a bit silly 12:50:00 if it's somehow offensive to have a non-free license, the editor should put the link in the non-free page as a ghetto 12:50:19 or are ACL and LispWorks references also going to be dropped ? 12:50:21 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:50:24 seems very silly 12:50:41 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:39 and unlike the origin of DFSG, much less founded in anything (Debian was *distributing* software, thus the strict licensing approach) 12:53:07 -!- btbngr [~btbgnr@212.183.140.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:53:46 I don't want to be "that guy" and start an editing war 12:54:09 but even the hyperspec isn't free 12:54:39 it would be good to know what drewc is thinking about it 12:55:03 indeed. 12:55:22 Bronsa [~bronsa@host221-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:56:39 <_3b```> pjb: did you restore the (spammy) document page, or was that the spammer? 12:57:02 I couldn't do it. Somebody else did it when I mentionned my problems here. 12:57:23 <_3b```> i thought someone else deleted it after you mentioned it 12:57:57 <_3b```> then it was restored under your name, but the spammer tends to use names of real editors, so that doesn't say much 12:58:38 Moreover, it was quite a discreet spam, and the recent history had it too, IIRC, so I didn't plan to "restore" the page, but to edit it, removing the spammy link. 12:58:43 i just saw a link to library called glop, says it is a native lisp alternative to glut for x11 and win, and seems to be only dependent on cffi, i couldn't figure out how can glop handle opengl bindings part, does it work in combination with libs like cl-opengl? 12:59:22 <_3b```> yeah, that particular spammer does a better than average job of it :/ 12:59:42 kenanb: or it simply takes care of the GLX/WGL part (though it probably uses cl-opengl) 12:59:43 <_3b```> kenanb: yeah, use it with cl-opengl 12:59:53 *nyef* sees user accounts in cliki's future. 13:02:15 *_3b```* wonders if asdf-install is dead enough yet to include asdf systems for using cl-opengl with other window creation libs 13:02:36 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:02:46 _3b```: Do it anyway, help kill asdf-install! 13:03:14 heh 13:03:25 <_3b```> nyef: if i weren't so lazy,that might be enough motivation :p 13:04:19 do you have info about the situation of the package? i mean, is it pretty usable to alternate cl-glut yet? sorry if i am asking silly questions, i am pretty newbie 13:05:13 <_3b```> don't know... not that most of the alternatives end up all that good in general anyway though 13:05:58 <_3b```> glut, sdl, glfw are all annoying in some way or another, particularly when you want gl3+ 13:07:07 <_3b```> and i think glop has some features you can't get with the versions of glfw/sdl that the bindings work with, like multiple windows 13:07:46 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:56 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has left #lisp 13:09:09 btbngr [~btbgnr@212.183.140.96] has joined #lisp 13:09:36 and glop seems to be pretty new and maintened 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:52 <_3b```> yeah, i'd probably start with that if i was starting a project now 13:10:52 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 13:11:51 *_3b```* 's most likely gl projects are things that wouldn't work on the available sdl/glfw bindings anyway though 13:12:27 <_3b```> (and glut is annoying, so i tend to avoid that by default anyway) 13:15:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:20:05 _3b```: thanks for the answers 13:20:22 loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has joined #lisp 13:20:58 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 13:29:49 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-147-143.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:06 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:32:43 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:34:12 Does LET work with special variables, like (let ((*spec* 2) (some-local (some-function-that-uses-*spec*)) ...) will, that function see the new dynamic binding, or do you have to use LET* ? 13:34:34 <_3b```> anything that binds variables should work with specials 13:34:41 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 13:34:49 <_3b```> let, let*, function arguments, destructuring-bind, etc 13:35:25 So the second function there will see the new binding, unlike with a lexical binding? 13:35:43 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:35:50 <_8david> I'm looking for a CSS serializer to go with Gilbert's CSS parser. Has anyone here seen or written such a thing? 13:36:08 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: Eish!] 13:36:18 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:36:58 <_3b```> Borbus: sounds right (assuming it is globally special, no intervening bindings, etc) 13:37:41 <_3b```> actually, i misread your parens... *spec* isn't bound when the initializer of some-local is evaluated, so it can't see it, special or not 13:37:51 Hmm.. I just tested and it seems it doesn't work, let* does though 13:38:14 <_3b```> right, let* would bind *spec* before evaluating the value to be assigned to some-local 13:38:23 Right, ok 13:38:33 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:35 <_3b```> so the problem is when it is evaluated, not whether it is special or not 13:39:22 serichsen [~user@f048038244.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:39:24 Hello! 13:39:59 Oh yes, of course, thanks 13:40:50 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:40:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:42:32 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:39 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:41 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:59 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:48:39 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:29 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:47 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-25-78.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:51:34 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 13:52:14 benny` [~benny@i577A34A7.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:53:00 kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has joined #lisp 13:53:28 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:54:30 hello. i am using sbcl 1.0.28 under debian/gnu-linux. i try to use --dynamic-space-size command-line argument. how can i detect the dynamic-space-size within sbcl (like (dynamic-space-size) -> xxx? (i tried (apropos "dynamic"), but i did not find anything aprop.) 13:55:20 Does (room) provide any information. It does on cmucl. 13:56:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.11] has joined #lisp 13:57:42 thanks rtoym. i tried (room t). it prints how much space is actually used, but not how much is available. 13:58:17 <_3b```> someone suggested (define-alien-variable dynamic-space-size unsigned-long) for that on #sbcl recently 13:58:30 *_3b```* isn't sure which package that is in though 13:59:19 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:59:19 trebor_dki: Oh well. It was just a guess. 13:59:30 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:18 _3b```: CL-USER (or sb-alien, actually). 14:00:37 <_3b```> pkhuong_: ah, must have pasted wrong when i tried then 14:01:37 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 14:01:57 Oh, cmucl has (lisp::dynamic-space-size) to return that. 14:02:07 <_3b```> hmm, or it just decided the ( was part of the symbol, wonder what happened there 14:02:09 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:43 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:54 cddr` [~user@mail.formedix.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:54 -!- cddr [~user@mail.formedix.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:32 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:05:59 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:14 should *POSIX-ARGV" be sth like that ("<...>/runtime/sbcl" "--dynamic-space-size XXXX" ...)? 14:07:06 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:29 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:07:57 ale` [~user@89.100.122.184] has joined #lisp 14:08:15 (here it is only (".../sbcl") only one element in the list (i tried fom shell). 14:08:20 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:09:21 trebor_dki: the runtime eats certain options 14:09:36 -!- ale` [~user@89.100.122.184] has left #lisp 14:13:48 trebor_dki: only unprocessed options are left there 14:14:25 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-150-238.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:14:55 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:16:23 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:16:25 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:18:14 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 14:18:43 i tried within emacs-lisp: (slime-start :program ".../sbcl" :program-args "--dynamic-space-size 2000" :coding-system 'utf-8-unix). is that ok? 14:18:47 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:42 redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:22:26 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:22:46 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:06 if it seems to work, it probably is. I don't use slime-start myself so i don't know its syntax 14:23:31 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23:36 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:45 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23:52 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:07 Joreji_ [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:26:45 -!- cddr` [~user@mail.formedix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:27:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:27:33 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:27:49 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:35 Ogedei [~user@p5799EFB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:14 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:30:21 is anyone mirroring slime's repository as a git repo? 14:30:51 Ogedei: common-lisp.net/gitweb 14:30:52 <_3b```> git://sbcl.boinkor.net/slime.git 14:31:01 thanks! 14:32:50 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:33:00 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:35:39 ska` [~user@203.146.146.169] has joined #lisp 14:35:54 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:36:16 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.162] has joined #lisp 14:36:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:37:14 -!- eslick [~eslick@70-36-140-187.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:37:24 I would like to run some code before an asdf system is compiled, and/or loaded. There doesn't seem to exist a concise way, is there? 14:37:29 Wow, a visit from *the* Ogedei! 14:37:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:38:08 tcr: I don't know, but I'd guess a :before method with an eql specializer. 14:38:38 I'd have to add two methods then, and I'm never sure when exactly these methods are run 14:38:43 Xach: ... Ogedei? Somehow the people I know under that name don't fit :D 14:40:32 tcr: A before method? 14:42:28 Excuse me? 14:42:45 ayrnieu [~julian@50.15.104.42] has joined #lisp 14:43:28 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:55 <_8david> which gf would you add that method to? 14:44:09 -!- loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:44:58 _8david: oos? 14:45:19 <_8david> Xach: I'm assuming that tcr wants to know when a depended-on system is loaded, too. 14:45:43 <_8david> And unless asdf2 has changed the plan-first strategy significantly, ISTR that no operations are done on the module level. 14:46:54 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:47:16 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:04 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 14:48:52 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:50:32 <_8david> ... after a brief look at the sources, asdf2 seems unchanged in this regard, which is surprising, disappointing, and encouraging all at the same time. 14:50:56 Hi Xach! I didn't know I had a *the* title now. 14:51:31 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:59 i would expect (defmethod perform :before ((o load-op) (c (eql (find-system ...))) ...) to work, but would not be terribly surprised if it didn't 14:53:01 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724574.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:53:09 -!- boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:53:29 Not a very high expectation, then... 14:53:30 is there a special var or a format directive I can give (format ...) that will make it emit an empty string for '() ? 14:54:03 Shaftoe: (or list "") 14:54:04 Shaftoe: ~@[~a~] 14:54:40 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:54:41 -!- benny` [~benny@i577A34A7.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:54:49 boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:54:56 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:55:05 Ogedei: thanks. 14:55:30 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:38 phew, got my faster CPU working again, now Lisp isn't slow again 14:55:52 carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.240] has joined #lisp 14:56:19 I just (setf cl:*slow* nil) 14:57:06 clhs *slow* 14:57:06 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for *slow*. 14:57:08 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:57:20 liar! 14:58:26 =) 14:59:17 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724574.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 14:59:51 stassats: implementation-specific :P 15:00:04 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:08 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:00:38 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:00:50 then such implementations are non-conforming, since you can't export additional symbols from CL 15:02:09 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.101.69] has joined #lisp 15:02:59 *stassats* uses sbcl build process as a benchmark 15:03:16 under 9 minutes is certainly better than 32 minutes 15:05:00 Under 9? Nice! Can I have your CPU? 15:05:20 kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:36 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:56 i wonder how modern top of the line CPUs fare 15:06:02 -!- boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:06:02 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:06:16 xinming [~hyy@122.238.78.2] has joined #lisp 15:06:33 though, sbcl build doesn't scale on many cores 15:06:40 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 15:07:57 -!- kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has left #lisp 15:08:41 ... The /test suite/ could be made to scale on many cores, though. 15:08:51 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.66.112] has quit [Quit: sellout] 15:08:53 *_3b```* would expect < 5min on a current high-end cpu 15:08:54 and contribs 15:09:49 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:09:50 <_3b```> i think my laptop is around 6min or so 15:10:10 and with many cores bisecting is a pleasure 15:11:20 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-49-98.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:11:55 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-55-25.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12:00 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:55 boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:13:09 _3b```: i am trying to edit cl-glut-examples to run with glop, i found the corresponding methods for display, display-window and input events, but i couldn't figure something corresponds to glut:reshape, is there a way to do it? 15:13:34 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:58 <_3b```> kenanb: from looking at the docs, i'd guess on-resize 15:15:30 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:16:07 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:46 _3b```: oh, i see, thanks 15:18:29 -!- kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: kjbrock] 15:20:10 benny [~benny@i577A2BE6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:23:25 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 15:25:13 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu141.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:26:11 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:30:11 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@85.22.93.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:35:27 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-65.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:26 -!- sabalaba__ [~sabalaba@114.240.90.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:38:37 -!- xan_ [~xan@gate.kikuei.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:41:15 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 15:48:54 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:49:03 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 15:49:03 Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:49:54 -!- PissedNu1lock is now known as PissedNumlock 15:50:47 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:51:52 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7571a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:58 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:57:25 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 15:58:07 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.101.69] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:58:24 ejohnson [~elliott@99-100-65-163.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:37 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:00 tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:22 az_ [~az@p5796CD90.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:13 eslick [~eslick@173-13-186-118-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:25 -!- andreas [~andreas@p4FF2B5D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:01:01 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.185.253] has joined #lisp 16:01:03 -!- az_ [~az@p5796CD90.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:01:25 az [~az@p5796CD90.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:49 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 16:03:11 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:03:33 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.185.253] has quit [Client Quit] 16:04:17 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:50 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has left #lisp 16:07:44 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:08:31 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050066235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:10:00 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:21 andreas [~andreas@ip-109-45-94-27.web.vodafone.de] has joined #lisp 16:10:37 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:11:00 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:52 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host221-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:10 Bronsa [~bronsa@host221-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:12:22 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:12:38 -!- ska` [~user@203.146.146.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:12:45 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:04 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:13:26 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 16:13:35 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:14:06 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:14:08 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-199-146.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 16:14:52 Good evening everyone! 16:15:26 hi beach 16:15:49 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 16:15:54 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:16:00 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:11 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:17:10 fe[nl]ix: What are you working on these days? Still iolib? 16:17:43 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:19:27 beach: yes 16:20:36 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rrnsdqmjumaaxhws] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:21:08 Evening beach 16:21:16 -!- dborba [~dborba@74.105.202.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:22:57 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:46 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:24:54 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:26:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:27:27 So I now think SICL should offer perhaps 3 or 4 versions of some modules such as the sequences module: small (a constant factor slower than normal), normal, fast (faster but considerably larger than normal), and perhaps tiny (non-linear algorithms may be used where linear ones exist, just to make it very very small). 16:31:27 beach: isn't that a bit too much work ? 16:32:01 ak70 [~ak70@a215.199.adsl.nextweb.net.mt] has joined #lisp 16:32:27 fe[nl]ix: Think of the advantages for small embedded systems, though! 16:32:32 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 16:32:38 fe[nl]ix: Well, for the sequences I started off thinking only "fast", but that turns out to be tedious to do, so I figured if I want anything out the door soon, I had better start with the "small" one. 16:32:52 beach: it does seem a bit like a zeno's paradox approach... 16:33:13 splittist: Which part? 16:33:21 dborba [~dborba@74.105.202.55] has joined #lisp 16:34:28 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:38 beach: Oh - I hadn't read your latest comment. 16:37:38 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:37:43 beach: I guess I was projecting my current situation. 'I need to add this piece of functionality. So I should really refactor everything. And first I need this to work...' And sure enough the arrow never leaves the bow. 16:38:10 splittist: I see, yes. 16:38:50 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:39:33 splittist: I often find myself in situations like that, and in fact, that is why I started SICL. I would try to find a problem in an application, only to find that I needed to improve McCLIM, and then when trying to do that, I found I had inadequate tools, etc, etc. 16:40:28 splittist: So I concluded that I need a Lisp system that was written for the programmer to be able to debug his or her code much more easily. 16:41:26 -!- Ogedei [~user@p5799EFB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 16:41:52 Luckily, it doesn't matter what I work on as long as I try to get a paper out of it from time to time. 16:41:56 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:42:37 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:29 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:44:07 That's the life :) 16:44:22 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 16:44:22 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 16:44:22 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:44:30 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:42 Not too bad I must admit. 16:45:56 beach: I can imagine an entertaining and educational discussion about the practicalities of algorithm choice keying off the sequences module. 16:46:31 Yes, there are some interesting challenges in there. 16:46:41 s/discussion about/presentation of/ ? 16:47:17 Some of the interesting possible choices come from :from-end t on a list. 16:47:39 And then there is the choice of sorting methods of course. 16:47:56 gosh, academics can actually endulge in ratholing at the day job :) 16:48:11 ratholing? 16:48:43 p_l|uni: as in "going down a rat hole" 16:49:22 I may misremember the precise name of the phenomenon, as it often happens 16:49:45 also known as "yak shaving" 16:49:45 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-5-2.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:50:16 cmm: in industry it's called 'reoganisation' and 'rationalisation' etc (: 16:50:45 (or do I mean 'project planning' and 'team building' ?) 16:50:49 splittist: heh! 16:50:57 delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:51:00 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:52:14 My software is under the MIT license. What would the logical license to use for the accompanying documentation be? Or does the MIT license cover that too? I just copy/paste the MIT license into the documentation and I'm done?... Any potentially better alternatives? 16:52:31 splittist: I thought team building is when you get drunk to overcome the lack of comfort induced by having to socialize with cow-orkers outside the office? 16:52:48 splittist: for instance, I imagine SBCL uses mergesort (perhaps I even checked it) for its stable sort on vectors, but it takes O(n) extra space. Mergesort is the fastest (faster than quicksort, and stable) on lists with no extra space. Is there an intermediate solution for vectors, i.e. mergesort with a mall amount of extra space that is good most of the time? 16:53:11 *franki^* wonders how one orks a cow. :) 16:53:26 franki^: the key is team work 16:53:32 hehe 16:53:44 classic teambuilding excercise. cow orking. 16:54:31 *beach* goes to have dinner with his (admittedly small) family. 16:54:48 *splittist* imagines that is a beach abbrev... 16:55:02 :) 16:55:13 my pattern matcher says it probably is :) 16:57:04 yates` [~yates@24.106.195.166] has joined #lisp 16:57:04 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:08 hello? 16:57:13 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-199-146.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:57:19 hello? can someone hear me? 16:57:24 yates`: no 16:57:34 -!- yates` [~yates@24.106.195.166] has left #lisp 16:57:40 hehe 16:57:59 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:07 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:02 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:01:30 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:39 ehu: sorry if this is a silly question, but what does the long-form DEFINE-METHOD-COMBINATION suport in abcl enable? (I will accept the answer 'use of the long form D-M-C', but will resent it (: ) 17:02:02 ... Devil May Cry? 17:02:14 arnesi has a wrapping-standard method combination 17:02:23 which allows :wrapped-around methods 17:02:59 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:05 other than that: compliance with the CLOS spec and maybe there are even people actually using it. 17:03:33 although given the fact that actual test cases were hard to find might indicate that there aren't too many users around. 17:03:38 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:04:01 ehu: thanks. I get it now. And funcallable instances? 17:04:06 splittist: there's nothing in abcl itself which requires it. 17:04:17 funcallable instances are already there. 17:05:11 I'm sure pcos has several libraries that need all this crazy stuff 17:05:40 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:05:51 andreas1 [~andreas@p579F8725.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:05 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:06:10 cmm: probably. however, I probably also need a working MOP to start testing with those. 17:06:17 we're not that far yet. 17:06:33 -!- ejohnson [~elliott@99-100-65-163.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:06:42 however, good idea. I'll contact him again to see if he knows good sources for tests. 17:06:45 drdo [~user@194.210.228.10] has joined #lisp 17:07:06 *ehu* heads home 17:07:13 -!- andreas [~andreas@ip-109-45-94-27.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:33 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: away away] 17:07:53 *splittist* looks for FUNCALLABLE-STANDARD-CLASS... 17:11:51 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.163.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:12:33 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:24 kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:19 tfb_ [~tfb@92.41.107.1.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:14:33 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:41 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:15:27 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.100.27] has joined #lisp 17:15:33 faux` [~user@c-139870d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:15:44 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:16:17 -!- TomJ [~tomj@89.241.155.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:16:48 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:17:29 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.118.125.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:18:09 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:18:51 thoolihan [~Tim@209.221.3.130] has joined #lisp 17:20:44 -!- drdo [~user@194.210.228.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:20:55 drdo [~user@194.210.228.10] has joined #lisp 17:23:47 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:23:58 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:51 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:33 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.11] has joined #lisp 17:31:35 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:33:34 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-5-2.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:33:52 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 17:33:56 Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-5-2.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:34:26 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 17:34:35 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:50 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:34:50 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:35:12 -!- kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: kjbrock] 17:36:43 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-150-238.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:37:11 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:37:23 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:38 karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:41 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-153-161.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:42:54 -!- splittist [~John@170-145.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 17:43:59 -!- eihrul_ is now known as eihrul 17:44:20 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-214.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:20 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:15 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:47:18 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 17:47:21 -!- zac31415` [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:47:50 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:47:53 -!- tfb_ [~tfb@92.41.107.1.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 17:49:36 -!- drdo [~user@194.210.228.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52:03 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host221-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:55:49 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 17:57:44 ddp [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:35 jweiss [~jweiss@nat/redhat/x-qhyvseafmgqdxanc] has joined #lisp 17:59:31 in common lisp, can you require a package and give it your own nickname? i know the package itself can define its own nicknames, but what if it doesn't have any? 17:59:47 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:59:55 <_3b```> REQUIRE doesn't have anything to do with packages 18:00:12 <_3b```> you can change the nicknames of an existing package though 18:01:04 _3b```: oh right, i guess i don't know what you'd do to refer to the package 18:01:19 <_3b```> clhs rename-package 18:01:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rn_pkg.htm 18:01:24 Hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:57 <_3b```> use a package-designator, same as anything else you do with packages? 18:02:16 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:02:46 _3b```: ok but i didn't know about the rename until you told me :) 18:03:10 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:04:25 _3b```: does the rename apply globally? or just in the current package 18:04:49 <_3b```> package names are global 18:04:53 jweiss: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_packag.htm is a useful reference, it lists standard symbols that relate to packages 18:05:56 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.215] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:02 <_3b```> hmm, new-name is a package-designator? 18:06:14 *_3b```* wonders what happens if you rename-package something to an actual package 18:07:30 <_3b```> though i guess that would tend to fall under the 'conflicts with any existing package' bit 18:08:54 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:51 -!- ddp [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:10:16 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:43 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:11:53 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:12:23 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.215] has joined #lisp 18:14:03 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 18:16:41 -!- guaqua_ is now known as guaqua 18:18:23 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:20:32 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:20:53 -!- Hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:02 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:21:54 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:22:15 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [] 18:23:35 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:25:56 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:27:18 jga [~gajon@189.253.56.122] has joined #lisp 18:28:20 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:29:49 Hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:32:21 -!- faux` [~user@c-139870d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:20 _quasi [~quasiabhi@117.195.37.41] has joined #lisp 18:34:30 -!- Hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:35:54 manby-ace [~manby-ace@88-96-24-53.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:37:32 rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 18:38:52 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:42:24 -!- Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-5-2.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 18:42:27 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 18:46:15 TomJ [~tomj@89.241.155.238] has joined #lisp 18:46:28 aidalgol [~user@118.148.170.8] has joined #lisp 18:46:56 ralfD [~user@82.113.121.54] has joined #lisp 18:50:10 -!- _quasi [~quasiabhi@117.195.37.41] has left #lisp 18:50:17 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:17 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 18:52:37 _quasi [~quasiabhi@117.195.37.41] has joined #lisp 18:52:50 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:54:45 -!- rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has left #lisp 18:55:23 rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 18:55:47 okflo [~okflo@91-115-198-29.mobile.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:56:43 -!- Aisling_ is now known as Aisling 18:57:28 -!- okflo [~okflo@91-115-198-29.mobile.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Client Quit] 18:58:52 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.73.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:59:16 Xach: Does quicklisp install slime if you install the slime helper? I'm getting slime/swank mismatches 18:59:47 i install swank with ql, uninstalled swank from my package manager, and swank can't be found by slime it seems 19:00:05 Quadrescence: yes. you might need to uninstall packaged slime too? 19:00:05 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:12 *Xach* must go to lunch, sorry 19:00:20 I did 19:00:24 maybe I'll reinstall everything 19:00:49 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.68.107] has joined #lisp 19:00:56 -!- atomx [~user@92.81.118.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:35 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:02:42 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 19:02:56 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:26 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 19:04:37 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:06:49 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 19:08:04 pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-241-128.wireless.concordia.ca] has joined #lisp 19:08:28 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:11:46 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:14:01 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 19:15:06 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:19 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:45 *tcr* liked SANS much more than remove-from-plist :-) 19:17:41 why the past tense? 19:18:50 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:19:19 it's not exported in alexandria anymore 19:19:36 -!- aidalgol [~user@118.148.170.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:20:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:20:32 http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/alexandria-devel/2010-July/000582.html 19:21:07 The only answer I got: http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/alexandria-devel/2010-July/000583.html 19:24:10 I uninstalled quicklisp, sbcl, slime, swank, etc, and then installed sbcl from my distribution, installed quicklisp, quickloaded the slime-helper which in turn installed slime and swank, and I added the right things to my .emacs, and upon M-x slime, I get http://paste.lisp.org/display/115742 19:25:00 ... Did you restart emacs? 19:25:06 Yes. 19:25:13 <_3b```> try purging the system slime and swank packages 19:25:30 And kill out your asdf fasl cache. 19:25:54 nyef: How does one do that? 19:26:14 `load "/usr/share/common-lisp/source/slime/swank-loader.lisp" ` doesn't look like a quicklisp system - that's a Debian/Ubuntu location 19:26:23 Yeah, definitely not 19:26:33 [a quicklisp location] 19:26:39 *_3b```* would also kill the distro sbcl and install a binary from sbcl.org 19:26:52 sudo apt-get remove --purge cl-swank 19:27:27 _3b```: I suppose I'll do that. Any reason you recommend that? 19:27:48 *_3b```* points at the stuff not working with distro paths :p 19:28:24 <_3b```> usual advice is to nuke the distro stuff from orbit and then stay as far from possible from it :) 19:28:26 That's not true: the problem here is having a not-matching slime and swank 19:28:49 <_3b```> (gentoo overlay and a few other specific cases being exceptions, if the people who maintain them are around) 19:29:09 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-234-83.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:39 <_3b```> ralfD: which isn't true? 19:30:28 That "stuff" doesn't work with distribution-specific pathes - it does here, just know what you install ... ;-) 19:30:34 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:44 It used to work fine for me. 19:30:55 Then I think I restarted my computer. :D 19:30:59 ppasteau [~ppasteau@dyn-241-128.wireless.concordia.ca] has joined #lisp 19:31:17 <_3b```> ralfD: sorry, i meant 'stuff not working' that contains distro paths, as opposed to the distro paths being the problem :) 19:31:21 *Quadrescence* holds back from cursing ubuntu about kernel updates and restarting the computer 19:31:53 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-115-159.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:32:07 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-241-128.wireless.concordia.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:32:08 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 19:32:24 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:33:47 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:34:16 @Quadrescence: yeah, I gave up on Ubuntu - they'r trying to be smarter than me - hate when that happens 19:34:42 *_3b```* had problems with ubuntu kernel updates filling /boot 19:35:13 Maybe you need a bigger /boot 19:35:23 <_3b```> yeah, i do 19:35:33 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:44 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:35:53 <_3b```> i don't need a few hundred MB of old kernels though 19:35:54 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has joined #lisp 19:37:09 As soon as you fry a kernel you'll be happy about that ol' vmlinux-2.0.36 :-) 19:37:24 but you don't need a few hundred vmlinuxes 19:38:10 you can't boot a modern distro with any kernel < 2.6.12ish. 19:38:18 maybe even later now 19:38:31 <_3b```> yeah, particularly not off an encrypted root :p 19:38:43 <_3b```> (which is why i had a small /boot in the first place) 19:38:58 francogrex [~user@109.130.174.230] has joined #lisp 19:39:09 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:39:59 <_3b```> and it is more like 3x 2.6.24, 4x 2.6.31, and a few random other versions 19:41:16 *_3b```* tries to skip the kernel upgrades to avoid reboots too 19:41:44 you can always upgrade the kernel and not reboot, of course 19:42:46 -!- thoolihan [~Tim@209.221.3.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:42:51 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.68.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:43:11 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.68.107] has joined #lisp 19:44:36 I'm surprised SBCL isn't yet complete on Windows. 19:44:45 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 19:45:13 the intersection of users and developers on win32 is tiny for SBCL. 19:45:13 Quadrescence: I share ths surprise. 19:45:26 <_3b```> no reason to be... not enough overlap between windows users and people willing to work on or fund work on sbcl 19:46:31 varjag [~eugene@c0D61BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 19:46:42 windows lisp users are rich enough to buy professional editions of allegro and lispworks 19:47:04 oh yeah I forgot about that 19:47:11 clozurecl 19:47:13 <_3b```> though i guess that overlap seems to have grown back to >= 1 recently, so we'll have to wait and see what happens with the win32threading branch 19:47:31 or they can use clisp from the cygwin distro 19:47:43 -!- ppasteau [~ppasteau@dyn-241-128.wireless.concordia.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:47:50 there's also corman cl 19:48:15 err, clisp runs on it's own on win 19:48:22 no need for cygwin in that case 19:48:34 ah, well then. Even easier 19:49:08 clisp is crappy. unusably long stack traces + crappy docs (e.g. mapcar just expands to (mapcar arg0 arg1 ..) in slime) 19:49:24 (:S> with all due respect to all implemntatiions, there's yet no match for sbcl 19:49:25 whereas clozurecl gives more meaningful hints about function arguments 19:49:52 francogrex: dunno, haven't tried it. i just have bad experience with clisp. 19:49:58 i think clisp is in a process and not there where it is supposed to be ... 19:50:11 maybe in a few years... 19:50:17 huh? it's over ten years old already 19:51:00 zvrba: wbooze : they're all ok with some deficeincies, but still look around here and you'll notice that there is no such powerful developement as there is for sbcl 19:51:04 sounds like "the year of the linux desktop.." for the past N years 19:51:19 zvrba: I read that linux is dead 19:51:24 \o/ 19:52:44 and all those trying to match in speed of updates and development to sbcl are failing miserably, with each new release introducing more bugs than features 19:53:10 eheh 19:54:11 That said, some months, even SBCL doesn't do much. We had a record low number of commits one month earlier this year. 19:54:50 who does participate in sbcl ? 19:54:59 only academics ? 19:55:11 who doesn't... almost everyone here 19:55:21 I'd hardly count myself as an academic. 19:55:29 ah 19:55:40 And I don't think nikodemus is, either. 19:56:18 they're janitors that took up computer science as a hobby 19:57:04 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.100.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:13 *stassats* found a clever way to print something on condition: (format (> x 5) "...") 19:57:14 <_3b```> more like CS (academic or industry) types who took up being sbcl janitor as a hobby :p 19:57:38 hah 19:58:11 <_3b```> stassats: ouch, just make sure the condition doesn't return a stream :) 19:58:13 but what is really still missing for windows development of sbcl, not much I think 19:58:18 stassats: only works for 'true' booleans, but i like! :) 19:58:32 *stassats* is lisp-golfing 19:58:49 <_3b```> francogrex: you mean things like threads, running on arbitrary windows systems, in64? 19:59:02 timor [~timor@port-92-195-135-29.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:59:03 <_3b```> francogrex: (and all the subtler things nyef knows about) 20:00:12 Heh. Like that problem with UNWIND-PROTECT? 20:00:13 stassats: hah. Nice. 20:01:21 pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-241-128.wireless.concordia.ca] has joined #lisp 20:02:35 But, yeah, at this point you'd have to pay me to care about SBCL on windows. 20:02:56 _3b```: there will always be some things here and there. But it's very much ansi-compliant on windows as it is on linux (last time I checked, almost all tests were successful) 20:03:16 <_3b```> francogrex: if it runs at all, which there is a good chance it won't 20:03:37 it does, I am using it right now 20:03:44 <_3b```> francogrex: due to issues with windows loading .dll at arbitrary addresses, and sbcl wanting a specific range 20:03:52 _3b```: yeah but only if you load a dll in the wrong place. Don't do that. :) 20:03:56 <_3b```> francogrex: right... on your machine, with the current config 20:04:03 Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-5-176.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:04:06 <_3b```> foom: tell that to users :p 20:04:09 i tested it on real win, which i put the win versoin of sbcl on a usb stick, and even under vbox it runs 20:04:22 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:26 well if users stopped putting so much crap on their machines that loads itself into every process 20:04:29 that wouldn't be a problem 20:04:30 <_3b```> francogrex: so sure, if it only need to run on that exact config, or you can control the config of machines it runs on 20:04:54 <_3b```> francogrex: just don't expect to ship it to mass-market users and expect it to run everywhere :) 20:04:56 it runs from the console of portable apps too 20:05:09 you'd have the same issue on linux if people used LD_PRELOAD routinely 20:05:59 well... 20:06:19 *_3b```* was quite happy to use sbcl last time i was doing my lisp work on win, not saying it is bad... just not 'finished' 20:06:20 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 20:06:21 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:06:49 <_3b```> i'd probably even deploy with it for some situations 20:07:07 zhenya [~zhenya@80.90.236.26] has joined #lisp 20:07:08 The thing is, we already /know/, more or less, what to do about the address space stuff, we just haven't done it yet. 20:07:10 <_3b```> plenty of vertical market apps can get away with only working on some specific setup :) 20:08:14 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:40 powerje [~powerje@dhcp-128-146-114-171.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 20:09:43 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:58 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:12:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:13:57 I'll try the ffi (sb-alien) on win now 20:15:05 ... Stdcall callbacks is another problematic item, though you don't need them for window procedures. 20:15:16 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:32 is sb-alien a proper part of sbcl ? 20:15:37 or just an addon ? 20:15:46 It's fairly integral. 20:15:50 ah 20:16:06 But if you know what you're looking for, you can see where it was originally bolted on. 20:16:56 Hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:17:32 aidalgol [~user@132.181.15.216] has joined #lisp 20:17:47 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-135-29.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:20:59 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: omghaahhahaohwow] 20:22:17 using SBCL 1.0.42.52 on windows 20:22:58 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:23:21 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 20:26:20 8.8 Step-By-Step Example of the Foreign Function Interface works well on windows 20:26:33 i guess this is belated, but I wanted to thank you, nyef, for the work you did on threading /w sbcl on ppc. 20:26:47 <_3b```> yeah, cffi worked fine on sbcl/win32 last i tried 20:27:43 Fade: You're welcome. Is it working for you? 20:27:53 it is 20:28:02 Good, good. 20:28:15 <_3b```> (or ccl or clisp on windows for that matter) 20:28:26 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:28:32 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:35 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:28:38 it's nice having a common common lisp across the architectures I use regularly. :) 20:29:05 I hear that. And it's nice having threads on all of the targets. 20:29:29 definitely 20:29:36 And the PPC threading support leads the way to being able to add MIPS, SPARC, or Alpha threading. 20:30:01 I'm picking up an alphaserver tomorrow evening that I could make available to the sbcl effort 20:30:01 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:05 (I'd say HPPA, but I don't know that that backend even still /builds/...) 20:30:29 I actually have a lot of mips, and sparc, too. 20:30:37 -!- Hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:45 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:02 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 20:34:21 timor [~timor@port-92-195-182-141.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:34:30 -!- zhenya [~zhenya@80.90.236.26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:34:36 I could contribute a PDP ;-) 20:35:32 An SGI O2 to whoever wants it. 20:35:47 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:35:53 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.79.96.101] has joined #lisp 20:36:20 @karbak already have some 20:37:19 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.79.96.101] has quit [Client Quit] 20:38:28 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:39:55 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:42:11 Hrm... An O2? Looks painfully slow... 20:42:26 -!- powerje [~powerje@dhcp-128-146-114-171.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Quit: powerje] 20:42:31 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:42:35 how times change... 20:42:58 decstation 5000/50? 20:43:04 -!- ak70 [~ak70@a215.199.adsl.nextweb.net.mt] has left #lisp 20:43:37 -!- manby-ace [~manby-ace@88-96-24-53.dsl.zen.co.uk] has left #lisp 20:43:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:43:55 Joreji_ [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:44:14 nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:58 <_3b```> we didn't get any fun SGIs, had to settle for intergraph x86 stuff :( 20:45:46 I have a full-frame onyx box, but no DC rail to power it up. 20:45:48 heh 20:45:48 I once had an old Intergraph with Clipper Chip (_not_ the encryption one) 20:46:32 Yeah, open more than two X-Terms and the licence manager complained! 20:46:40 <_3b```> that and a bunch of macs with some japanese 3d modelling app 20:47:42 wasn't the symbolics 3d modeller bought out by a japanese company? 20:48:00 <_3b```> nichimen? 20:48:11 that sounds right. 20:50:48 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-153-161.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:52:26 -!- nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:53:30 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:53:41 name of the modeling tool is Mirai 20:54:52 BTW, any Common Lisp running on SGI/Irix? 20:56:22 clisp runs on irix. 20:56:29 How can I set the default core in SBCL? 20:56:31 or it did about 18 months ago, when I last tried. 20:56:48 i.e. I want sbcl --core /home/quad/Slash/lib/sbcl/sbcl.core 20:56:53 but by default 20:57:07 <_3b```> build a new executable instead of a core? 20:57:12 at some point in the past, sbcl also built on irix 20:57:14 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:24 ecl can probably work, too. 20:57:24 <_3b```> or set SBCL_HOME or something 20:58:25 _3b```: lerp derp, it even said that in the docs 20:58:26 Sorry. 21:00:14 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:01:44 -!- aidalgol [~user@132.181.15.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:02:37 There's no obvious Config file for SBCL on irix, though...? 21:04:17 -!- _quasi [~quasiabhi@117.195.37.41] has quit [Quit: _quasi] 21:05:52 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-241-128.wireless.concordia.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:34 maybe I was thinking about cmucl.. 21:10:08 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:10:19 Shouldn't (ha-ha) be hard to port, though. 21:10:48 well, clisp should compile on irix. 21:11:04 so generating a bootstrap is possible. 21:12:00 It's also very not-hard to cross-compile SBCL from a different machine. 21:12:47 well, I have an Octane2 with R12k cpus in it. 21:13:42 ... mips64 port? That might be harder. 21:14:13 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.215] has joined #lisp 21:15:01 all the mips stuff I have is mips64, which is why it's running irix. :) 21:16:03 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:16:11 Do they have a 32-bit mode for compatibility? 21:16:48 tbh, I don't know. 21:16:54 I doubt it. 21:17:07 it's pretty different from sparc in that regard. 21:17:16 Mmm. And the one MIPS system I have runs Linux 2.4. :-/ 21:17:23 all that mips stuff > r10k is kind of a pain in the ass. 21:17:24 clizzin [~clizzin@173-13-186-118-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:26 where's my ARM port? :) 21:17:41 foom: Are you paying for one? 21:17:54 nyef: no 21:18:14 Then I have no idea. :-P 21:18:18 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-147-143.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 21:18:29 I just want one to appear magically so I can type "sbcl" on my phone, and be happy that it does something, but not actually have a use for it. 21:18:33 -!- Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-5-176.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 21:18:43 i don't suppose anyone here uses both slime and vimpulse? i have a compatibility issue where any new buffers opened after running M-x slime-connect don't have the vimpulse bindings. any old buffers i opened prior to running M-x slime-connect still have the vimpulse bindings though. this is even with the slime compatibility code in vimpulse-compatibility.el. any thoughts? or a better channel to ask in? 21:18:46 but anything < r10k is so obsolete as to be practically useless. 21:19:34 Intensity [6MXTSICdI8@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 21:19:48 Wombatzus [~user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:07 pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-215-012.wireless.concordia.ca] has joined #lisp 21:24:07 -!- ralfD [~user@82.113.121.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:25 ralfD [~user@82.113.121.54] has joined #lisp 21:24:33 p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:25:48 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-215-012.wireless.concordia.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:25:48 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:27:03 can someone give me a "small" piece code that you predict will fail on sbcl windows (to try and try to find a fix) ? 21:28:01 #+win32(error "fails on windows") 21:28:29 <_3b```> does trying to interrupt it from slime count? 21:29:47 <_3b```> or maybe https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bugs?field.tag=os-windows would help? 21:29:56 lp 379472 21:29:57 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/379472 21:30:08 francogrex: That should have a small failure case. 21:30:32 lp 492053 21:30:32 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/492053 21:31:02 <_3b```> if you want to work on win32 sbcl, it might be better to coordinate with the win32-threads fork though 21:31:18 And that one is a bit nasty, in that I don't know if there's even an API to do what's needed (there should be, though). 21:31:41 -!- clizzin [~clizzin@173-13-186-118-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 21:33:00 -!- Hraban [~user@78-22-147-148.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:38 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@KD175129170046.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:33:45 Actually, now that I think about it, I might have a third angle to try on lp#379472... 21:34:13 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 21:35:33 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:05 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-1177754746.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:38:19 -!- _3b``` [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:23 -!- kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-214.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:38:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:47 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:39:59 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:19 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 21:43:03 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 21:44:17 peddie [~peddie@c-67-160-245-238.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:23 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:54 -!- peddie [~peddie@c-67-160-245-238.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:47:23 manby-ace [~manby-ace@88-96-24-53.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:48:37 Oh, yeah. There it is. The CATCH-BLOCK TNs are all :ENVIRONMENT TNs, which contain a pointer to their PHYSENV, which contains a pointer to their CLAMBDA, and there's a LAMBDA-PARENT field. Makes the analysis a lot less intrusive. 21:50:41 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:50:55 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 21:53:53 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:54:02 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:56:23 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-199-24.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 21:57:20 ddp [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:49 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:59:02 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7571a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:17 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-182-141.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:46 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:59:47 _3b``` [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:01:29 aidalgol [~user@132.181.15.216] has joined #lisp 22:03:28 -!- andreas1 [~andreas@p579F8725.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:04:11 andreas [~andreas@p579F8725.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:41 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:06:41 *francogrex* is back 22:07:40 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:07:58 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-199-24.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:19 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:08:45 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:47 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:50 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:08:51 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-135-15.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:39 I see 22:09:48 gonzojive [~red@171.66.86.216] has joined #lisp 22:10:28 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:47 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-234-83.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:12:31 francogrex: So, here's a minor challenge for you: Find a windows API to determine if a given \\servername\share exists, and if the current user has permission to access it. 22:12:51 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-119-19.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:20 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:23 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-135-15.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:14:36 nyef: will try this at work tomorrow (we have the network drives) but without verifying in my logs I think this issue is present with other implementations as well. I wonder if (directory "\\servername\share\*.*) will also fail... 22:14:50 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@81.193.33.33] has joined #lisp 22:15:33 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:15:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:16:03 I think it might, actually. 22:17:06 hmmm, curious, i don't have description of sb-alien:union 22:17:32 rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:17:33 it just gives me def for cl:union 22:17:48 ok guys, getting late here; see you all tomorrow 22:17:56 -!- ddp [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:18:08 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.174.230] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:18:29 does that mean my sbcl is not complete ? 22:18:52 or someting is shadows only ? 22:19:37 -!- andreas [~andreas@p579F8725.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:19:41 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:20:35 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:09 wbooze: what description? 22:21:47 (describe 'sb-alien:union) 22:22:08 just gives me the description of cl:union 22:22:23 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:25 and what do you want to see? 22:22:26 jep 22:22:39 timack [~tim@hlfx60-1-163.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 22:22:54 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.86.216] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 22:23:03 eheh, that one which is also on the sbcl manual page 22:23:39 Anyone on OS X (or FreeBSD) interested in trying my GCD/libdispatch library? http://github.com/sellout/cl-dispatch 22:23:44 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:55 Maybe even get it into quicklisp  22:24:28 rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:24:31 wbooze: it can't describe symbols 22:25:15 ? 22:28:20 gump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 22:28:44 no, it is not part of my impl 22:28:56 i just have a half baked system i think 22:29:06 i only have sb-grovel 22:30:49 you're confused 22:30:55 sb-alien:union is just a symbol 22:30:58 -!- dborba [~dborba@74.105.202.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:31:11 and you can't have sbcl without sb-alien 22:32:28 sellout: ping 22:32:35 -!- varjag [~eugene@c0D61BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:32:39 fe[nl]ix: pong 22:33:37 sellout: regarding the comments in grovel.lisp, please try the grovel++ branch in http://gitorious.org/cffi/cffi/ 22:34:39 I think that I know what the bug is, and it should be fixed there 22:35:08 fe[nl]ix: Thanks. Is the official CFFI repo on gitorious now, too? 22:35:22 *sellout* needs to get luis or someone *cough* to apply his patch. 22:35:27 no, it's on c-l.net, but I keep them in sync 22:35:58 sellout: the only gotcha is that I've changed the syntax of cenum 22:36:29 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:36:39 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 22:36:39 gonzojive [~red@171.66.73.171] has joined #lisp 22:36:57 the single elements no longer need two level of parens around them 22:36:57 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@81.193.33.33] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:38:32 -!- manby-ace [~manby-ace@88-96-24-53.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: manby-ace] 22:38:34 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-147-143.vologda.ru] has quit [Quit: I wish the toaster to be happy, too.] 22:39:16 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:39:41 fe[nl]ix: Good, that bugs me, too :) 22:39:57 fe[nl]ix: While I've got you here, what do you think about this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/cffi/+bug/622272 22:40:56 I should fork your gitorious, rather than just keeping locally modified stuff around and being nervous about it disappearing or me forgetting about it. 22:41:30 (asdf:oos 'asdf:test-op :flexi-streams) goes into infinite loop or something, it hangs... 22:42:29 fe[nl]ix: (one of the last comments fixes the issues mentioned in the description  hopefully satisfactorily) 22:42:44 trivial-shell does also hang on tests, can't create the output dir or so 22:43:38 when i do create it myself it puts some files therein, but the run TEST-1 hangs too 22:43:45 etc.. 22:44:03 i always have to interrupt the process 22:46:24 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:47:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:53:01 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:21 sellout: I don't think I like that, especially specializing the transformer on *package* 22:55:15 fe[nl]ix: Do you have any suggestions? It's the kind of thing I end up writing almost every time I use CFFI. 22:55:25 cl-ppcre and cl-ppcre-unicode passes all 22:55:30 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:55:59 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:56:12 So many functions, they follow some pattern, and the default s/_/-/ is rarely appropriate (since C libraries almost universally prefix everything out of necessity). 22:56:21 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:49 I agree with the *package* bit, but I don't know how else to localize the conversions. 22:56:50 lol 22:57:41 my experience is the exact opposite: working almost exclusively with syscalls, I don't think I've ever needed it 22:58:51 fe[nl]ix: Yeah, for syscalls, but I wrap things like bdb, libdispatch, and LLVM (that was the one that finally pushed me over the edge). 23:00:25 -!- gump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:01:33 -!- p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:01:43 fe[nl]ix: Speaking of which, when's CFFI going to support blocks? ;) 23:01:58 "which" being libdispatch. 23:02:27 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839A8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:02:47 when somebody with a Mac will add support for it 23:03:08 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:04:21 fe[nl]ix: Well, I imagine what will happen (if anything) is gb will add support to CCL, and then I'll add it to CFFI, but no other compiler will ever support it. 23:04:32 "blocks"? 23:04:56 nyef: closures for C. A language extension. 23:05:14 oh 23:05:15 eheh 23:05:20 How odd. Inherited from Smalltalk, I presume? 23:05:32 (Their closures are also called blocks.) 23:05:46 What's actually required in order to support them? 23:05:52 nyef: just like in ObjC 23:06:06 parser stuff ? 23:06:09 nyef: No idea what's required: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocks_(C_language_extension) 23:06:16 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06:18 *nyef* still thinks of ObjC as a front-end preprocessor. 23:06:58 But if I could do like (some-c-function-that-takes-a-block (lambda-callback () ...))  that'd be great. 23:07:13 sellout: anyway, I don't think I want to expose lisp-name & co., especially when you can write things like http://paste.lisp.org/+2HB5 23:07:16 dborba [~dborba@74.105.202.55] has joined #lisp 23:08:37 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:08:58 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:11 Yeah, I agree with fe[nl]ix that that's a simple way to get arbitrary behavior, and what I'd go for /far/ sooner than exposing the default name mapping to extension. 23:09:17 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050066235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:09:23 fe[nl]ix: Yeah, that's my usual solution, but then you have either a more complicated macro or you alternate between def-llvm-call when you want the auto-translation, and defcfun when you want to be explicit. 23:10:03 As for blocks, find the calling-convention information for your target platforms, and we might be able to do something for you. 23:10:09 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:28 (It might be as simple as an implicit first argument, after all.) 23:10:47 sellout: I see no problem with the latter - which I've done a few times: using defcfun, defcfun*, defsyscall and defsyscall* in the same file 23:11:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:11:06 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:17 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:15:47 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.78.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:15:58 p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:16:31 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:19:05 -!- vandemar [bella@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:19:59 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:20:15 vandemar [bella@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 23:20:52 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:06 gigamonkey [~user@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:23:15 Anyone want to be nominated to the ALU board? 23:23:33 *Fade* nominates Xach and drewc. 23:23:45 _leo__ [~leo@186.18.145.74] has joined #lisp 23:23:47 I can't nominate Xach. He's right next to me and will probably punch me. 23:23:55 hah 23:24:03 gigamonkey: I suppose that only ALU members can be nominated ? 23:24:09 No. Anyone. 23:24:34 I'd be pretty happy to replace the whole current board but I don't think I'd wish it on anyone to be on it unless there's at least a new majority. 23:24:35 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.73.171] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 23:24:37 then I'd nominate RMS 23:25:02 Heh. 23:25:17 hahahaha 23:25:20 -!- vandemar [bella@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:31 *Fade* laughs 23:25:38 So the board is eight. So if we had five new members it might be interesting. 23:26:25 Because I'm insane, I'll volunteer if there are four more. 23:26:41 -!- aidalgol [~user@132.181.15.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:26:44 what's involved? 23:26:44 if dead people can be nominated as well, I'd go for Dijkstra 23:26:48 this is a tempting sort of insanity. 23:27:13 Monthly conference calls and reading email. 23:27:18 And putting up with the rest of the board. 23:27:54 gigamonkey: email regarding what ? 23:27:58 Oh, and Xach tells me you might not be able to get money from them. 23:28:04 fe[nl]ix: board stuff. 23:28:21 Though I have no idea how much money might be on the line. 23:28:29 -!- p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:28:54 From my experience, the conference calls are the main burden though they would be less burdensome with a better board. 23:29:04 And you can always resign. 23:29:11 *fe[nl]ix* is almost tempted 23:29:12 gigamonkey: what exactly does the ALU do these days? 23:29:23 drewc: organize ILC 23:29:27 Put on the ILC, mainly. 23:29:33 And hog the lisp.org domain. 23:29:57 Last call? 23:30:05 They're about to close nominations. 23:30:12 Missed your chance. 23:30:13 Luckyy 23:30:32 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-211-168.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:43 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-211-168.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:47 *drewc* sighs with relief 23:31:01 :) 23:31:46 Ah-ha, Xach and I just became "The Counting Committee" 23:31:51 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-65-251.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:11 Whoops. With no new nominees there's no voting and our work is done. 23:33:02 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-119-19.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:33:14 Any proposals for a new web site. 23:33:31 I propose that there should be one. 23:33:40 redline6561 [~redline@c-76-111-33-142.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:42 a journal ? 23:33:48 minion: Memo for francogrex: Nevermind about the UNC filespec stuff for lp #492053. The magic function is GetFileAttributes(), and is exported from Kernel32. Unless you want to put together a proper patch for PROBE-FILE? 23:33:48 Remembered. I'll tell francogrex when he/she/it next speaks. 23:34:38 Fade: I concur. 23:34:48 At the moment we're discussing exchange rates with Japan. 23:35:20 I'd like to see it running on one of the free implementations /w a modern stack. 23:35:33 perhaps in revision control as a tutorial. ;) 23:35:35 What's it running on now? Allegro. 23:35:35 gigamonkey: I propose the institution a commission to decide whether there should be a new site 23:35:39 allegro 23:35:51 although webactions is available everywhere. 23:35:55 vandemar [holy@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 23:35:57 fe[nl]ix: I'm assuming you're being snarky. 23:36:49 perhaps 23:36:56 Anyone willing to volunteer to do it. Assuming we could get some kind of buy in on the idea. 23:37:07 there'd be a certain recursive symmertry to the lisp.org site functioning as a tutorial introduction to programming /w CL in a given domain 23:37:36 gigamonkey: let's assume I'm serious. who should be in that commission ? 23:37:41 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-232-204.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:52 fe[nl]ix: good question. Who do you propose? 23:38:03 I vote for Xach and drewc 23:38:24 Xach says no. 23:39:31 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:39:52 we could emulate real parliamentary commissions and only appoint people who've never made websites 23:40:06 that rules out drewc too 23:40:11 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-65-251.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:40:19 hah 23:40:29 *drewc* sighs with relief 23:40:49 hell, it'd be a good base to finish off the 'gettingstarted.txt' :) 23:40:56 -!- vandemar [holy@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:41:15 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-109-185.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:19 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-54-219.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:41:37 Fade: is that a page on lisp.org? 23:41:47 no, it's the documentation for UCW 23:42:02 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-49-98.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:42:37 Anyone want to got to an ILC in Japan? 23:42:47 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-232-204.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:42:51 Or Hawaii? 23:43:02 if the economy improves in the next 365 days, I'd definitely consider either place. 23:43:37 gigamonkey: Japan FTW 23:43:50 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:44:12 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-199-24.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 23:45:04 gigamonkey: I already proposed that to Jeremy Jones last year, but alas the ALU board didn't agree 23:45:20 fe[nl]ix: I think he's one of the ones pushing it. 23:46:09 oh cool 23:46:51 We're discussing it now but with no decision to actually be made. So it will be endlessly rehashed in future board meetings that you have all been saved from participating in. 23:46:52 vandemar [rings@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 23:48:52 I just proposed we discuss the the web site. We'll see how that goes. 23:48:57 *nyef* just used SBCL/Win32 for the first time in months. 23:49:30 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:08 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-199-24.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:50:18 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-199-24.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 23:51:06 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:51 I'm almost surprised it still ran, given how old 0.9.12 is. 23:52:45 -!- vandemar [rings@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:54:19 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:54:56 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 23:55:26 p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:56:16 nyef: how serious you are about the stuff you write for NaNoWriMo? 23:56:34 nyef: you doing NaNoWriMo this year. 23:56:44 I've only tried nanowrimo once, and didn't even get a full page in. 23:56:47 I'm trying to decide whether I'm going to do it again. 23:56:49 I might try it again this year. 23:56:52 gigamonkey: if you're doing it as well, the same question for you 23:56:59 I really shouldn't but part of me want to keep on. 23:57:12 (or how serious you were about previous) 23:57:20 p_l|home: my take on it is it's an exercise in lowering your standards until you can pull it off. 23:57:33 And in working on it regularly. 23:57:59 I pretty much wrote every evening. But I didn't do any planning ahead of time which is how the "serious" folks do it. 23:58:43 heh. True, but do you just bang on keyboard till you reach 50k words without any thought about the plot (not necessarily planning it ahead, just whether you'd clean it up later if you were still interested) 23:59:19 p_l|home: that's what you get when you give typewriters to a billion of monkeys 23:59:23 stassats: ;-) 23:59:35 *p_l|home* was thinking of some ideas, and a certain new one suddenly seemed fit for NaNoWriMo material... if I do some research into communism, that is 23:59:41 I tried to keep it semi coherent but I didn't go back and fix anything during November. 23:59:49 freewriting? :)