00:00:38 republican_devil: only reason I had to use clisp was that it ran on ARM. 00:01:58 schmrkc: Oddly, my reaction to that is pretty much the same as my reaction to not having SBCL on Windows. :-P 00:02:53 oh man sbcl needs a sbcl? 00:02:57 I am installing on centos 00:03:03 er 00:03:05 republican_devil: you can grab it at sbcl.org 00:03:13 I got the bzip 00:03:18 republican_devil: or I actually think you can compile it using clisp 00:03:22 try to make sense of INSTALL file 00:03:32 but better don't 00:03:46 nyef: I'm awaiting you to make the sbcl port for windowsME on arm :) 00:03:53 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:03:58 schmrkc: Don't hold your breath. 00:04:00 it's incredibly slow and may fail 00:04:28 ("WindowsME"? Wasn't that the last of the 9x series?) 00:04:48 python isn't known to be fast, but imagine it running on clisp 00:05:22 *schmrkc* isnt sure. I thought it was the mini-windows 00:05:25 *schmrkc* shrugs 00:05:52 I think they re-used the designator, from Millennium Edition to Mobile Edition. 00:06:08 nyef: I've actually started up a local sbcl branch and started poking around and looking into ARM support a couple of times.. but in between work that pays money and wasting time on IRC.. well.. 00:06:12 maybe next year 00:06:28 (The latter of which is also known as "WinCE", which is not exactly the best name for marketing purposes...) 00:06:37 Jabberwock [~Jens@f050067044.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:06:41 aah CE was it 00:06:58 I am the kinda guy who has clisp 2.41 from centos 00:06:59 *stassats* winces 00:07:12 but I want newest version of sbcl or clisp 2.49 00:07:16 am I a tool? 00:07:47 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 00:08:00 I am the kinda guy who wonders why on earth centos even has clisp 00:08:07 Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:07 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:08:07 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 00:08:13 one "o", two "l"s, actually. 00:08:17 and an "r" 00:08:41 Rolot 00:09:52 -!- Jabber_ [~Jens@f050067044.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:10:05 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755dea.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:08 work cloud has centos only or id run freebsd 00:12:21 cntos very hard to copile things without all kinda bizarre problems 00:12:40 bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 00:12:50 -!- cow-orker [~mw@c541745C1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:13:11 fe[nl]ix: Back. Anything else you want me to try? (My solaris 8 box seems unreachable, but I'm pretty sure it would say 2.8 instead of 2.10.) 00:14:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:19:00 rtoym: yes, a printf("%d\n", sizeof(off_t)) compiled with and without "-D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64" 00:19:12 antifuchs [~foobar@2001:858:745:a0e4:200:1aff:fe19:d355] has joined #lisp 00:19:24 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050067044.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:20:33 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:20:51 something wobky about isntalling sbcl on centos 00:20:52 5.4 00:21:06 Jabber_ [~Jens@f050067044.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:22:13 http://sourceforge.net/projects/sbcl/files/sbcl/1.0.43/sbcl-1.0.43-x86-64-linux-binary.tar.bz2/download grabbd this 00:22:27 ah maybe I should try soruce 00:22:29 -!- Jabberwock [~Jens@f050067044.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:23:35 republican_devil: I'd try the binary first. 00:23:39 republican_devil: did it work? 00:23:39 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:19 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050067044.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:25:57 the binary had some memory error and ulimiit reported unlimited 00:25:59 fe[nl]ix: 4 without, 8 with. Which is sensible. 00:26:16 trying to compile using clisp now 00:26:28 republican_devil: googled centos +sbcl and found some repo that has it 00:26:29 its progressing 00:26:34 oh? 00:26:44 how old? 00:26:46 nice 00:26:51 hmm i would suggest exploring getting the binary / build from source going 00:27:01 fe[nl]ix: That was with Sun C compiler in 32-bit mode. 00:27:11 and investing the time to make stock sbcl / sbcl compiled with stock sbcl going 00:27:13 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:27:27 republican_devil: .22 00:27:45 oh no 00:27:57 hmm.. 2.11.0.0.20070402.cvs.8 00:28:24 oh my bad. it is common music built on top of sbcl 00:28:26 rtoym: ok. I just wanted to make sure that _LARGEFILE_SOURCE is still necessary on Solaris 00:28:27 tessier_ [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 00:28:37 fe[nl]ix: In 64-bit mode, both return 8, naturally. 00:28:38 the compile unbelievabley is progressing 00:29:18 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:30:27 stassats: Trying to make an RS encoder/decoder? 00:30:31 installing stuff nicely is why I like non redhat 00:30:35 rtoym: yep 00:30:45 and non enterprise in general 00:31:30 -!- tessier_ [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:31:30 tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 00:31:32 You like installing stuff nicely and you use CentOS? :P 00:31:50 -!- Jabber_ [~Jens@f050067044.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:32:02 Jabberwock [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:32:10 stassats: I started one long ago, but wanted to handle any Galois field, and eventualy got bogged down in deciding how to do things. Never finished it. Got as far as a polynomial class with elements from GF(p). 00:32:27 work has cloud 00:32:44 Ah, yes, I read back 00:32:52 rtoym: that's where i'm stuck currently 00:33:24 and having zero knowledge of abstract algebra doesn't help 00:33:26 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has joined #lisp 00:33:32 stassats: Do you need non-binary RS? Binary RS is fairly simple. 00:33:43 at least i will learn something 00:33:49 ivan4th: what's the URL for your ccl arm trac ticket again? 00:34:18 I had a lot of fun learning about that stuff since I never learned it in school. Having some good text books helped a lot. 00:35:03 i think i only binary fields, yes 00:35:04 *rtoym* did actually implement RS in C which worked nicely for the project that needed it. 00:35:16 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:35:32 stassats: If you get stuck, ask. Don't know if I can help, but I can try. 00:36:09 i seem to be progressing, but slowly 00:36:42 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-251-24.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:36:46 How do you do addition and multiplication? 00:37:10 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-84-44-250-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:37:12 homie` [~user@xdsl-84-44-250-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:37:41 i don't have any code yet, but addition should be just xoring, shouldn't it? 00:38:36 Jabber_ [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:38:39 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-23-195.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:38:47 Yeah, that's what I did. For multiplication, I used logs and antilogs via table lookup, since I wasn't doing anything bigger than GF(2^8) or so. 00:39:31 i'm currently figuring how to build such tables 00:39:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:40:14 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-251-24.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:40:27 I used the shift register implementation to generate all the field elements. I think. 00:41:57 stassats: BTW, a slime question: Can I teach slime about my readtable? My readtable changed the meaning of #\; and that confuses slime into thinking my lines are never complete. 00:41:59 -!- Jabberwock [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:42:38 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-13-42.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:42:41 that bit is done on emacs side without any knowledge of readtable 00:43:41 i guess you can change emacs syntax table too 00:45:13 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@2001:858:745:a0e4:200:1aff:fe19:d355] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:47:24 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:40 Hmm. But I don't want that to happen everywhere. Only in this one particular app (matlisp). 00:47:41 rtoym: what do you use ; for? 00:48:21 The other matlisp dev wanted to be able to input matrices like matlab: [1 2; 3 4] produces a 2x2 matrix with second row of [3 4]. 00:49:59 This wasn't a problem in ilisp, way back when. 00:51:14 And it's not quite consistent. "CL-USER> [1 2 ; 3 4]" works. "CL-USER> (norm [1 2; 3 4])" doesn't. slime thinks the latter is not complete input and won't send it. 00:52:38 -!- symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:53:27 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:59 benny [~benny@i577A30EF.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:55:01 it does seem to send it here 00:55:31 -!- Krystof [~csr21@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:55:46 oh, but not in XEmacs 00:56:30 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-214-86-155.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:56:55 doing M-: (let ((new-syntax-table (copy-syntax-table))) (modify-syntax-entry ?\; "@" new-syntax-table) (set-syntax-table new-syntax-table) t) seems to work 00:57:28 What does "@" mean? 00:57:36 i don't know! 00:58:25 @ is inherit from standard-syntax-table, according to modify-syntax-entry. 00:58:38 emacs symbol tables are their own little bizarre minilanguage 00:59:03 why they didn't just use conses and symbols is a mystery 00:59:18 dlowe: it would be too easy 00:59:55 rtoym: Perhaps it's a constituent? 01:00:04 and this is not on the agenda of emacs developers 01:01:52 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:02:26 Jabberwock [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:04:36 (char-syntax ?\; (standard-syntax-table)) -> ?\. Whatever that means. 01:05:21 Oh. I guess that means punctuation. What does emacs say? 01:05:44 that's harder than field theory! 01:05:52 -!- Jabber_ [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:06:19 46 01:06:25 Heh. 01:06:34 (code-char 46) => #\. 01:06:38 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755dea.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:55 And (char-syntax ?\;) in the slime repl returns ?<. Which is comment starter. 01:07:16 So why does the slime-repl do that? 01:08:16 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.51.136] has joined #lisp 01:09:44 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 01:12:50 it just uses lisp-mode-syntax-table 01:13:34 -!- Dawgmatix_ [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:14:32 Ah, which says ?\; has syntax ?<, a comment starter. 01:15:07 Jabber_ [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:15:09 I think I'll just diddle slime-repl-mode-hook to hack the syntax table. 01:16:22 TheLolrus [~Xarver@76.175.244.227] has joined #lisp 01:18:23 -!- Jabberwock [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:22:00 -!- upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:47 -!- H4ns [~user@p579F8A54.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:48 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 01:23:26 LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-214-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:31 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:31 -!- Jabber_ [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:00 Jabber_ [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:28:38 stassats: That works nicely. Thanks! 01:30:14 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 01:31:15 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 01:33:45 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:11 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:41:56 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:28 Jabberwock [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:46:59 -!- Jabber_ [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:48:02 echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:57:03 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:01:58 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has joined #lisp 02:01:58 -!- Jabberwock [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:27 Jabberwock [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:06:57 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:08:52 Jabber_ [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:09:19 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:11:40 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:12:20 -!- Jabberwock [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:18:27 -!- Jabber_ [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:18:32 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:18:52 Jabber_ [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:21:20 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:55 SCVirus [~B234651@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:08 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 02:22:48 -!- xristos [~x@c-174-61-40-23.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:24:19 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:26:51 dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:51 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:26:51 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 02:29:49 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:30:44 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-9-148.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 02:30:49 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.51.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:02 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-47-79.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:36:15 aidalgol [~user@132.181.254.208] has joined #lisp 02:36:52 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:38:17 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:30 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:44:02 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-147-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:44:56 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:13 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 02:45:57 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:46:22 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:46:44 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:47:01 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:47:26 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:48:26 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f7243de.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:47 felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-126-232.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:50 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f7261eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:53:39 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-214-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:54:32 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hdupkjvxfkybqrpv] has joined #lisp 02:58:10 seangrov` [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:28 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.66.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:01:17 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.65.200] has joined #lisp 03:02:06 -!- beach` is now known as beach 03:02:22 Good morning everyone! 03:03:57 Morning. 03:04:23 -!- Jabber_ [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04:26 beach: Do you know any ISLISP users? Is it used in France? 03:04:51 Jabber_ [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 03:05:09 -!- Jabber_ is now known as Jabberwockey 03:07:21 gigamonkey: I have never heard of any ISLISP users, neither in France nor elsewhere. 03:11:48 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:12:31 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:12:40 Wow, so that whole standardization effort was quite a waste. 03:12:52 I would think so, yes. 03:13:39 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:49 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:25:25 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:29:45 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:30:37 gigamonkey, I think ISLISP hasn't been much used, in France or otherwise, though there were a few implementations. 03:31:18 I think Common Lisp was successful, not because it was a standard, but because it had GLS. 03:32:19 platypine [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:41 antifuchs [~foobar@2001:858:745:a0e4:200:1aff:fe19:d355] has joined #lisp 03:33:01 hi 03:33:10 hello platypine 03:33:46 im just starting lisp 03:34:37 Congratulations! 03:34:43 intchanter [~intchante@c-174-52-141-98.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:59 platypine: What made you start using Lisp? 03:37:10 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:15 *beach* sounded like Eliza there. 03:37:37 if i set up some table of rooms with a list of directions and rooms for each.. like (setf rooms '((living-room (south dining-room) (east kitchen)) (dining-room (north living-room) (east pantry)) ... etc.. )) 03:37:54 an AI class :o 03:38:04 nowl [~nowl@c-66-30-78-234.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:54 anyways with that im trying to create a function called choices that takes a room and will list all the directions and rooms for that room 03:39:05 i used dolist 03:39:31 I would use find instead. 03:39:33 (defun choices (room) (dolist (x rooms) (when (eql (car x) room) (print (rest x))))) 03:39:40 ooh 03:39:52 how does find work? 03:39:58 clhs find 03:39:58 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_find_.htm 03:40:12 *Fare* packages exscribe. Only 7MB of documents ever written with Exscribe. 03:40:14 :-/ 03:40:20 (defun choices (room) (find room rooms :key #'car)) 03:41:04 now packaging the code, the documents, and sending them to eli who promised to convert them from old Scribble (Scribe-like) syntax to new Scribble (Racket Scribble-like) syntax. 03:41:23 how's that :key #'car work? 03:41:43 That function (car) is applied to each element before the test is applied. 03:42:06 ooh 03:42:13 well thats a lot more elegant 03:42:16 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 03:43:01 I think you will find that the functional style gives some very compact and understandable code sometimes. 03:44:01 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724574.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:44:18 What would be the string equivalent of #\Newline ? 03:44:34 Shaftoe: A newline character. 03:44:50 -!- aidalgol [~user@132.181.254.208] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:44:52 thanks :] i'm going to play around some more with this, i'll be back with some more questions probably later/tomorrow 03:45:03 platypine: Sure. Good luck! 03:45:05 I'm specifically looking for the escape character that will let me express a newline in a literal string 03:45:16 -!- platypine [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:45:18 (without actually having a newline in my source) 03:45:42 Shaftoe: There is no such character. You may want to use (format nil "...~%...") 03:45:49 really eh. 03:46:04 yes, I was looking for the explicit ~% char. 03:46:12 so there's nothing like "\n" a-la C 03:46:16 alrighty then 03:47:19 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:47:40 Shaftoe (string #\newline) 03:48:04 actually, a newline is a pretty good newline: " 03:48:04 " 03:48:28 Shaftoe: just saying. 03:48:50 Fare: I like the (string #\newline) way. Thanks for mentioning it 03:50:41 -!- jpd [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:51:12 Shaftoe: Is there something you don't like about (format nil ...)? 03:51:51 platypine [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:07 beach: I find it overly verbose. It may compile to the same thing in the end, but visually, it looks like code more than it looks like a constant. 03:53:11 I find that the code I write should not tax my brain. Which is why I opt for the newline which isn't an actual newline: doing that only breaks the indentation and the visual flow of the code 03:53:19 Shaftoe: Create a reader macro then. 03:53:36 (string #\newline) will do me fine 03:53:43 How will it do that? 03:53:56 it looks much more constant than a format. 03:54:15 I mean, how do you produce the equivalent of "hello\nthere" using (string #\newline)? 03:54:24 you don't. 03:54:37 But that's what you said you were looking for. 03:54:46 In this particular program, I needed to call replace-all with a newline as the last param 03:55:02 so the code in question was: (replace-all input "
" newline) 03:55:21 I could do it with format: (replace-all input "
" (format nil "~%")) 03:55:30 or I could do it with string: (replace-all input "
" (string #\newline)) 03:55:41 it's highly subjective, but that last one looks better to me 03:55:59 Shaftoe: Well if you had said that all you wanted was a string with a single newline it it, as opposed to the same mechanism as C has, the answer might have been different. 03:56:02 i just remembered we had this question on a test today to create a function that returns how many depths of parenthesis there are in a list, i.e (paren-depth '(a b c)) returns 1, (paren-depth '(a b ((c) d) e)) returns 3, that had me stumped, and i'm still stumped over it.. i was using recursion, and atom and a whole bunch of nested if's.. but couldn't figure it out >< 03:56:34 beach: well the answers I got were informative enough that I understood what I could get and what I couldn't get. 03:57:38 platypine: just read left to right, and add to a counter everytime you open a paren, substract everytime you close one. measure maxima of counter. 03:58:41 platypine: (defun paren-depth (thing) (if (atom thing) 0 (1+ (reduce #'max (mapcar #'paren-depth thing))))) 03:58:52 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:53 wait you can just read left to right? 03:59:16 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:59:27 Shaftoe: Er, I don't think the list is in the form of a string. 03:59:40 no, it's not 03:59:46 beach: yes, I noticed now he's dealing in s-exps. In which case: beach's method. 03:59:52 platypine: See my solution above 04:00:03 which in the end is isomorphic, but that's moot =) 04:00:38 wow.. 04:01:05 you're having a moment? ;) 04:01:37 yea, i'm kind of in awe of how simple he makes that look 04:01:52 it is indeed nice, beach =) 04:02:09 platypine: This style makes your program look like a proof by induction, which makes it quite easily understandable. 04:02:13 fine specimen of tuesday night hacking 04:02:14 Shaftoe: Thanks! 04:03:36 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:03:58 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@76.175.244.227] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:04:50 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 04:04:57 evening 04:04:57 slyrus_, memo from drewc: smug source isn't exactly publically available (i'm not quite 04:05:10 hello slyrus_ 04:05:19 hey beach. what did I miss? 04:05:35 Not much. We are impressing a newbie at the moment! :) 04:05:41 =) 04:05:43 again? :) 04:05:46 hear hear 04:06:03 although, I think he might have finally moved on 04:06:16 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 04:06:28 slyrus_: I didn't get much Lisp work done yesterday, because I was spending the entire day studying Vietnamese. 04:06:36 oh, nice 04:07:08 slyrus_: I need to have a reasonable level before going there in around two months. 04:07:25 you going there for work? 04:07:54 Shaftoe: Yes. We have a branch of our masters program there. 04:08:03 ... I know I read about it somewhere but can't find it anymore. Please, remind me why string=, char=, = etc is not a generic function? 04:08:22 s/\?/./ 04:08:30 beach: very nice. 04:09:50 beach: how hard is it to learn vietnamese phonetically? 04:09:54 naryl: I am guessing that the standard committee was concerned about performance. 04:10:04 pjb: Not too hard for me! :) 04:10:16 pjb: But most speakers of French have a hard time. 04:10:30 s//native/ 04:10:39 Why is it so? 04:11:23 naryl: There would be no point in making char= generic, but I assume you mean having a generic equality test for all objects? That is not possible in general because equality depends on the application. 04:12:06 naryl: For instance, as far as the phone company is concerned, me and my wife are one and the same person. For that to work, you would need a third argument to the equality test, namely some kind of "context" object. 04:12:28 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:12:58 aeqa [~aeqa@c-24-63-72-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:29 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:03 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 04:17:22 aidalgol [~user@132.181.254.208] has joined #lisp 04:18:41 -!- nowl [~nowl@c-66-30-78-234.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:19:22 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:49 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:21:22 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-127-140.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:24:24 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:25:32 lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:31:13 naryl: also, note that string= takes a bunch of keyword arguments that only make sense with strings (or at least indexable sequences) 04:33:37 Wombatzus [~user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:04 wakeupsticky_ [ae1d3fbd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.29.63.189] has joined #lisp 04:34:15 hi. best way to get started with lisp on ubuntu? 04:34:17 :) 04:34:44 wakeupsticky_: Download SBCL and SLIM. And read the PCL. 04:34:58 SLIM? 04:34:58 Will do. But what is the PCL? :) 04:35:02 sudo apt-get install sbcl 04:35:04 er, SLIME. 04:35:10 minion: please tell wakeupsticky_ about PCL. 04:35:11 wakeupsticky_: please look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 04:35:29 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-126-232.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: b] 04:35:32 gui programming: feasible on linux with lisp? 04:35:33 wakeupsticky_: but after that, downloaded the sources and build a new SBCL 04:35:42 s/downloaded/download/ 04:35:53 wakeupsticky_: also, install or bookmark the hyperspec 04:36:13 wakeupsticky_: GUI programming is definitely feasible. 04:36:56 ECL+Qt = http://sourceforge.net/news/?group_id=30035&id=287627 04:37:43 antivigilante [~antivigil@wsip-70-166-115-251.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:44 http://www.cliki.net/admin/search?words=gui 04:38:49 sbcl makes a lot of noise when it installs 04:39:07 yep~ 04:39:19 ok, used apt-get to get slime as well 04:39:47 That might not have been a good idea if I understand things correctly. 04:39:48 any other config stuff to do? 04:40:03 should not have done apt-get install slime? :\ 04:40:12 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40:15 Perhaps this is the time to start using Quicklisp for installing remaining libraries. 04:40:16 wakeupsticky: check out clbuild 04:40:28 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 04:40:30 adeht: I would go for quicklisp instead now 04:40:36 good morning 04:40:42 Hello ost. 04:40:49 beach: I've no experience with quicklisp 04:40:55 now i forget how to start slime after starting emacs 04:41:06 M-x slime 04:41:33 and m is alt yes? 04:42:14 wakeupsticky_: Depends on your keyboard configutation. I always use C-[ x instead, because the Meta key is hard to find. 04:42:44 werp, m-x slime brought up the emacs tutorial 04:42:51 wakeupsticky_: We are in a bit of a trasition period. There is this new thing called Quicklisp which looks like it is going to be the preferred way of installing Lisp libraries, but it is in beta version right now. Nevertheless, I would go for it. 04:43:20 that doesn't replace emacs/slime though right? that's just instead of asdf-install? 04:43:28 (i dabbled a bit a long time ago) 04:43:57 wakeupsticky_: It contains latest versions of many things like SLIME, whereas apt-get install might give you a very old version. 04:44:25 wakeupsticky_: But yeah, start with Emacs and a recent binary version of SBCL, then download quicklisp.lisp and follow the instructions. 04:44:40 oh. well, i believe that emacs/slime is working for me, but i can try quicklisp instead if i am going to be using quicklisp later anyway. 04:44:40 <_3b> quicklisp will probably give you a more recent version of slime than apt-get 04:45:21 you said sbcl binaries. apt-get install sbcl is no good? 04:45:44 wakeupsticky_: probably old, and comes with mostly debian-specific add-ons. 04:46:07 heh, ok, well, right now i have old sbcl, old slime, and emacs 04:46:24 maybe i could work through pcl with these and then update everything? 04:46:46 <_3b> it should be good enough to start with, if it seems to be working now 04:47:07 <_3b> just expect the first step to be 'uninstall apt versions and install from upstream' if you ever need debugging help from us :) 04:47:35 so i will go through pcl (i already went through the first few chapters awhile ago) and then get the new stuff when i want to start doing gui thingies :) 04:49:47 what do you guys think of haskell (imo the only language that rivals lisp) 04:50:28 *_3b* thinks forth is a better rival :p 04:51:12 i know nothing about forth 04:51:23 wrote a toy chess engine and a few throwaway scripts in haskell 04:52:15 <_3b> and more generally, i think talking about other languages is off-topic for #lisp :) 04:52:42 sorry :P 04:52:48 thanks, guys. gotta go to bed. night. :) 04:53:18 -!- wakeupsticky_ [ae1d3fbd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.29.63.189] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:59:11 Unless it's implemented in lisp, or it's to implement a lisp... 05:00:57 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:07:40 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:08:37 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:09:11 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@wsip-70-166-115-251.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:09:39 -!- aeqa [~aeqa@c-24-63-72-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:10:10 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:09 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 05:20:56 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:22:21 -!- aidalgol [~user@132.181.254.208] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:22:37 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:33 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:40:24 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 05:41:17 argh... where does this Not an absolute pathname #P"~/.clc/systems/" error when building sbcl contribs come from? 05:46:01 <_3b> clc + asdf2 05:46:38 antivigilante [~antivigil@wsip-70-166-115-251.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:38 <_3b> purge clc or fix the file in /etc/common-lisp/ 05:46:52 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:47:31 ok, thanks 05:47:37 but why is asdf2 even looking there? 05:47:42 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:48:16 and 42.54 doesn't have this problem. must be some new asdf2.x.y problem/feature 05:48:23 <_3b> asdf2 has its own system config dir, which isn't disabled by the sbcl flags to disable system config dir 05:50:03 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 05:51:29 grumble grumble 05:51:30 -!- dys` is now known as dys 05:51:50 and the ubuntu (debian?) sbcl package depends on clc. lame. 05:53:30 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:53:46 nostoi [~nostoi@46.Red-79-146-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:37 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-84-44-250-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:54:50 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-84-44-250-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:55:42 antivigilante_ [~antivigil@wsip-70-166-115-251.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:04 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@wsip-70-166-115-251.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:56:23 -!- antivigilante_ is now known as antivigilante 06:00:52 -!- platypine [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:03:35 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@wsip-70-166-115-251.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:05:18 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@46.Red-79-146-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:07:52 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 06:08:10 slyrus_: That's why it might not be a good idea to use apt-get to install SBCL. 06:08:38 what is clc? 06:08:39 <_3b> beach: it is a bigger problem than that 06:08:50 zvrba: The Common Lisp Controller. 06:08:57 _3b: How so? 06:08:57 what is that? 06:09:05 wait, i'll just google it 06:09:12 <_3b> nyef ran into it from a failed clisp install from a dependency of some non-lisp stuff or something 06:09:38 beach: apt-get usually works for most things. if there's a problem with SBCL, we should either fix SBCL or get the debian/ubuntu folks to fix the package, or both. 06:09:55 slyrus_: it's a problem with c-l-c and asdf2. 06:09:57 <_3b> so /anything/ installing clc breaks sbcl builds currently 06:10:02 slyrus_: That would be great, yes. 06:11:04 pkhuong: yes, and the ubuntu sbcl package depends on clc, therefore current sbcl won't build on a machine in which somebody (at some point) did an apt-get install sbcl. 06:11:06 that's lame. 06:11:50 <_3b> in this case, clc installs a bogus config file, asdf2 breaks more than it should on bad config files, and sbcl should probably disable asdf config files during sbcl builds, so all 3 need fixed :) 06:11:50 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:17 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 06:12:42 slyrus_: while I think we should clc-proof SBCL, the issue is larger than debian's SBCL package. 06:12:50 yes, I agree 06:13:46 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:14:45 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 06:15:12 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:17:26 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:17:41 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:20:42 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-117-28.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:23:18 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:30 -!- tij [~tim@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:27:18 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:31:58 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:32:31 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 06:35:12 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:36:19 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:37:12 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:42:00 -!- republican_devil [d834eb65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.52.235.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:44:38 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:45:02 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:47:05 good morning 06:49:10 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@96.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:50:50 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:58:23 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 06:58:52 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:35 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082ACDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:15 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:05:32 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 07:06:07 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082AB85.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:26 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:07:40 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has joined #lisp 07:09:31 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 07:16:36 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:17:26 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 07:18:43 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-35.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 07:18:57 _8david [~user@port-92-195-157-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:19:59 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-228-42.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:20:56 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:58 abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:33:17 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has joined #lisp 07:40:14 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 07:40:28 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has joined #lisp 07:43:28 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:46:35 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:47:07 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-143.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:18 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:48:31 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:48:31 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 07:48:31 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 07:48:34 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has joined #lisp 07:49:27 -!- lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:50:25 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:59:02 good morning 07:59:22 -!- jsoft_ [~jsoft@60.234.231.122] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:00:13 Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0619.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 08:00:23 araujo [~araujo@192.100.124.156] has joined #lisp 08:00:23 -!- araujo [~araujo@192.100.124.156] has quit [Changing host] 08:00:23 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 08:00:38 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 08:00:52 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:01:06 wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 08:01:39 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 600 seconds] 08:04:01 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 08:04:15 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has joined #lisp 08:06:31 -!- vandemar [holy@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:06:44 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:08:02 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:08:45 vandemar [spin@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 08:10:41 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e195-095.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 08:14:21 hlavaty [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:14:46 PascalHunger [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 08:15:02 I have been looking for a lisp / scheme web framework to make some web apps in but I can't find anything 08:15:46 dore [~dore@athedsl-203622.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 08:21:38 hello mvilleneuve, hello nikodemus 08:22:02 PascalHunger: I am never sure what people look for in a Web framework, but have you looked at hunchentoot? 08:24:51 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:25:21 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-194-233.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:42 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-194-233.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:26:15 xan_ [~xan@i60-41-60-132.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 08:28:05 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:28:43 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:28:52 spiaggia: I have been looking at racket a little bit which is scheme but still ....its so low level its like rewriting a web server each time you write an app 08:28:53 not cool 08:29:02 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Client Quit] 08:29:50 lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:30:03 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-35.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:33:13 It doesn't feel like that to program with Hunchentoot. 08:33:30 <_3b> PascalHunger: weblocks and ucw are the main 'high level' frameworks i know of for CL, not sure if either has enough documentation yet to get started with easily though 08:34:21 *_3b* usually just uses hunchentoot 08:34:27 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.16.142] has joined #lisp 08:34:59 _3b: they dont have good docs at all, and I am not experienced at lisp so I need good docs :( 08:35:26 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:35:38 -!- lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:55 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 08:36:42 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 08:36:51 I really can see why PHP remains the biggiest web community, with python and ruby following 08:37:30 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e195-095.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 08:38:02 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-40-82-251-182-5.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:38:12 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:39:22 PascalHunger: It sounds to me like you are 1. Not going to read the Hunchentoot documentation, and 2. Declare that it is better to stay with PHP, Python, or Ruby. 08:40:38 Morning 08:40:58 Hello tcr 08:41:01 Morgen, T 08:41:10 pascal: Is it because people prefer ad hoc crap that requires little deep understanding? 08:41:24 PascalHunger: i'm not experiencied at lisp yet i found weblocks quite easy to understand (even if it lacks docs, it has readable code and good examples) 08:41:33 s/yet/either 08:43:46 PascalHunger: read the code of a simple app 08:44:17 that normally teaches you more about the good and bad things there are in a web framework than the documentation 08:44:43 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442446.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:46:19 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:51 slyrus_: memo was useless, smug will see a release before the end of the week. 08:48:17 minion: memo to slyrus_ : read the logs 08:48:17 Remembered. I'll tell slyrus_ when he/she/it next speaks. 08:48:32 slyrus_: :P 08:49:19 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441779.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:50:11 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:50:58 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:51:47 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-36-82-251-55-238.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:58 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-35.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 08:56:38 swilde [~wilde@aktaia.intevation.org] has joined #lisp 08:59:10 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-35.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:01:54 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:02:36 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-35.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 09:06:56 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has joined #lisp 09:07:12 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu264.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:09:52 http://random-state.net/log/3495946062.html # Another quick survey 09:14:35 PascalHunger: if you're new to lisp, i'd especially like to hear from you 09:15:09 abeaumont: you too :) 09:16:21 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 09:17:12 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:36 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 09:18:46 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 09:23:51 nikodemus: done 09:24:27 lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:25:06 thanks 09:26:08 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B68A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:35 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:27:52 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755233.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:11 nikodemus: by following the URL I just heard the first time of quicklisp. It sounds very interesting but I wonder: is there some kind of package verification/authentication as done with gpg signatures in asdf-install? 09:29:36 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:30:39 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:33:02 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-35.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:34:59 swilde: no, but they come from a more trusted location than with asdf-install 09:35:54 gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 09:36:05 nikodemus: I'm sorry to say so, but as long as you don't use https (and a verified server certificated) they don't (or more precisely: you can not know they do). 09:36:51 nikodemus: In addition I can not know how the packages got there... ;-) 09:36:54 sure, but there is still a world of difference between a known amazon's s3 URI as opposed to "where-ever a word-editable wikipage points to" 09:36:57 urandom__ [~user@p548A74E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:10 nikodemus: I agree. 09:37:11 world-editable, even 09:37:46 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-35.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 09:37:53 nikodemus: never the less I think it would be a worthwhile feature. 09:38:13 if you have paranoia, you just don't use any software written by someone else 09:38:56 nikodemus: It's not about paranoia, it's about being able to verify certain things, like: is it from the source I trust or from somewhere else 09:39:28 i suspect the lowest-overhead way to add security would be for Xach to publish secure hashes of the tarballs over https, and make the system check against those if provided 09:39:41 swilde: are you sure that Xach is the real Xach and not an impostor? 09:40:42 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:41:14 Even if you are paranoid, that doesn't mean nobody's watching you. 09:41:25 nikodemus: that would be a valid solution 09:41:54 ASau`: i'm okay with that, as long as they applaud at the end 09:42:01 lou__ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:42:04 stassats: Protocols like OpenPGP or X509 are designed to verify exactly that. 09:42:37 swilde: what if somebody tortured Xach and stole his password? 09:42:49 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 09:43:42 -!- lou__ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Client Quit] 09:43:42 -!- lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:45:04 stassats: that's a valid point -- but security is never absolute... 09:45:37 stassats: If you really go that route, you'll need some "web of trust" for the GPG signature ... 09:45:54 swilde: hah, actually, this seems already implemented, except for the https part 09:46:26 nikodemus: the only part left is to implement SSL in Lisp 09:46:26 when you install a quicklisp dist, you get a releases.txt with sha1 hashes for everything 09:46:43 andreas [~andreas@p4FF2B31D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:48 Moin! 09:46:50 nikodemus: but the https part is vital -- but shouldn't be to hard to get. 09:46:50 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:47:06 stassats: i think pointing to a manual download url is a feasible quick and dirty solution 09:47:20 flip214: the web of trust is a vital part at the heard of OpenPGP 09:47:24 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-142-223.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:47:26 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:47:31 lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:47:42 hooking to libssl if it exists may be feasible to 09:47:57 yes. but instead of only one person signing the tarballs (or whatever) you need to have several, each one checking that there's no malicious code in the package 09:48:14 when i see "FFI" i think "troubles" 09:48:22 flip214: no, you don't 09:49:14 flip214: as long as you trust the one person who signed the package, which might be very well the case, especially when he is the original author... 09:50:01 swilde: and as long there's no key grabber, no trojan, noone standing with a heavy object behind him, and so on ... 09:50:30 http://xkcd.com/538/ 09:50:54 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B68A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:51:14 The more people you get for independently checking, the better it gets. 09:51:46 Of course, having the original author putting signatures online (and having them verified) helps a lot. 09:51:55 -!- Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0619.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:51:57 I'd be all for it. 09:52:23 flip214: so we agree :) 09:53:00 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:53:07 Yes, we do. My first comment was targetted at " swilde: what if somebody tortured Xach and stole his password?" 09:53:32 :) 09:53:55 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B68A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:24 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:57:43 -!- lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:14 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:00:30 lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:00:48 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:13:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:14:35 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:14:57 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B68A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15:06 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B68A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:08 kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has joined #lisp 10:22:25 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:23:18 -!- lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:28 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B68A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:23:44 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 10:23:44 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 10:23:44 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:25:19 morning fellow lispers 10:26:06 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26:35 lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:27:27 hello kiuma 10:29:33 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:31:40 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:36:02 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:36:20 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B68A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:08 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:41:27 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has joined #lisp 10:41:37 is there a built-in function for splitting strings, say at tabs? 10:42:00 no 10:42:02 there's split-sequence library 10:42:03 cYmen, cl-ppcre 10:42:09 but most people roll their own 10:42:19 or so i've heard 10:42:20 or ^^^ 10:42:27 i've used split-sequence myself 10:42:28 http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2006-03/msg01976.html 10:43:00 i don't split strings to avoid consing new strings 10:43:19 ooh. didn't know cl-ppcre had a split 10:43:29 err, has split-function 10:43:31 that's very neat 10:43:40 hooray for ediware 10:43:58 -!- lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:44:13 most sequence operations accept bounding designators, e.g., you can do (write-string "abcdef" nil :end 2) without splitting 10:44:15 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:01 and if you rewrite the function from the link a bit, you can return shared strings 10:45:20 cl-ppcre can return shared data as well 10:45:32 shared strings? 10:45:53 cl-ppcre is darned cool 10:45:54 we should all just convert to ropes ;) 10:46:18 seems like overkill for most use cases 10:46:58 cl-ppcre manual: "If sharedp is true, the substrings may share structure with target-string." 10:47:24 oh, displaced strings, i wouldn't say it's a good thing 10:48:24 lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:49:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:51:27 sounds a bit like array access in go language 10:52:42 -!- lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:12 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:53:20 can localtime only parse one sort of time? 10:53:21 slices, i mean 10:53:39 I can't seem to find how to set it up for parsing the german format. 10:53:59 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:54:14 cYmen: yeah, it doesn't have a general time parser 10:54:25 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.190.108] has joined #lisp 10:54:32 damn.. 10:55:17 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:56:35 is there a place where I can find a comparison of scheme macro system with that of lisp macro system... 10:56:35 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:01:31 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:59 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 11:04:34 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:05:27 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 11:06:43 Ogedei [~user@p579F6BBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:12 http://community.schemewiki.org/?scheme-vs-common-lisp had what I wanted 11:09:18 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:09:19 -!- katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:09:59 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:10:12 lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 11:10:46 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hdupkjvxfkybqrpv] has left #lisp 11:11:11 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 11:15:08 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:19:43 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441779.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:21:08 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:21:17 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:21:36 -!- bohanlon [~bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Back later!] 11:23:54 Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0619.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 11:24:44 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 11:25:11 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633277.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:25:11 #eu 11:25:30 damn emacs, sorry :\ 11:26:06 -!- adeht [void@91.121.18.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:27:04 cYmen: patches are welcom for cl-l10n to generate parsers based on the CLDR date format specification... ;) 11:29:19 konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has joined #lisp 11:30:55 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:32:52 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@118.234.119.173] has joined #lisp 11:34:44 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:35:47 -!- rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:36:44 Now that's weird. 11:36:55 hunchentoot:start doesn't return for me on FreeBSD. 11:37:07 you don't have threads 11:37:26 D'oh! 11:38:05 echo "(lambda (f) (cons :sb-thread f))" > customize-target-features.lisp and then rebuild sbcl 11:38:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:38:27 threads aren't baked in by default on freebsd 11:38:35 I see. Thanks! 11:38:39 -!- gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 11:38:40 (why?) 11:39:06 lack of active testing, lack of freebsd people who push them hard saying they're solid 11:39:37 they're only built by default on linux, where they indeed are pretty damn solid these days 11:40:21 I'll give them a bit of exercise. 11:41:06 And if they crash too often, I'll move to a Linux host. :) 11:41:12 good :) be sure to report any problems to rest-name 11:41:13 -!- lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:18 oops to https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl 11:41:30 will do. 11:44:04 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 11:45:31 how do i do two's complement negation? 11:46:54 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47:35 lognot? 11:48:54 like (unsigned)(- x) in c 11:48:57 *stassats* is confused 11:49:24 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 11:51:39 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:48 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:52:08 (ldb (byte 32 0) (- x))? 11:52:25 i'm trying to translate (lfsr >> 1) ^ (-(lfsr & 1u) & 0xB400u); 11:52:34 where lfsr is unsinged 11:52:46 unsinged! Absolutely not burnt at all 11:53:03 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:53:11 -!- dore [~dore@athedsl-203622.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: kill *me*] 11:54:19 ain't that just (lfsr >> 1)? 11:54:20 Hm. When I enable threads, sb-bsd-sockets don't get built. 11:54:58 is the &1&0xb400 higher precedence than "-"? 11:55:00 andreas: do "sh make-target-contrib.sh > contrib.log" and attach the log to a launchpad bug 11:55:28 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e195-238.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:55:40 don't the contrib build logs already go to some files in output/? 11:55:49 i don't remember 11:56:04 -!- Hraban [~user@78-22-147-148.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:56:06 but getting logs to output by default for all parts of the build would be neat 11:57:08 aha. output/building-contrib. 11:57:13 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:57:44 Hah, neat. 11:57:55 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@118.234.119.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58:04 It doesn't install the library because one of the test fails. 11:58:12 i was confused because of the operator precedence 11:58:26 Where it gets a # instead of T. 11:58:53 (logxor (ash lfsr -1) (logand (- (logand lfsr 1)) polynomial)) seems to produce the same result as in C 11:59:17 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:00:49 (but not the result i want) 12:01:03 back to the drawing board 12:01:17 mega1_ [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 12:01:17 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:22 tcr [~tcr@89-251-198-185.chess.managedbroadband.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:04:52 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e195-238.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 12:05:23 doh, it does, but in reverse order 12:05:52 carlocci [~nes@93.37.218.96] has joined #lisp 12:08:35 CaptainCook [~CaptainCo@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 12:09:06 -!- CaptainCook is now known as PTSWorldFriend 12:09:15 stassats: The change to the emacs syntax table was probably not a good idea. Now I get EOF errors for things like '(a b ;;; comment ) 12:10:06 Oh, and I look more closely at what matlisp was doing. It doesn't change #\;. It adds a reader macro for #\[ which process the ; specially. 12:10:46 just don't enter comments in REPL 12:12:04 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:12:10 andreas: looks like pretty harmless. if you touch contrib/sb-bsd-sockets/test-passed, it will install sb-bsd-sockets too when you run install.sh 12:12:17 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:12:38 rtoym: and i've finally generated all elements of GF(2^8), now to figure out how to generate primitive polynomials for other fields 12:12:45 nikodemus: ah, nice trick. I just took out the offending test and recompiled. 12:12:59 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 12:13:12 nikodemus: although it disturbs me that a system call would return different errnos when using threads. 12:13:16 though, i think i can move to other problems and come back to this later 12:13:32 What's the common way to read a whole text file into a string in cl if there is on? Should I just use read-sequence? 12:14:01 (in fact, errno and threads on UNIX is disturbing to begin with) 12:14:03 andreas: getprotobyname vs getprotobyname_r issue 12:14:11 sepi: alexandria:read-file-into-string 12:14:26 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:15:11 stassats: nice, good that someone has allready written this. Thanks 12:16:03 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:16:19 you could read directly into a string, but i'm not sure file-length would interact good with multibyte characters 12:17:30 andreas: can you do (sb-bsd-sockets:get-proto-by-name "sdkjfhas") for me, and tell me what the errno is, and what sb-int:strerror says about it? 12:18:17 i mean get-protocol-by-name, of course -- sorry 12:18:44 <_8david> attila_lendvai: who is the expert on perec slot prefetching? 12:18:54 nikodemus: figured that. :) 12:18:58 Unexpected errno 4. 12:19:08 _8david: levy :/ 12:19:17 Which is... 12:19:26 according to errno.h... 12:19:29 #define EINTR 4 /* Interrupted system call */ 12:19:29 <_8david> I'm mainly interested in knowing whether it tends to work for you at all, and if you have tests for it somewhere. 12:19:47 *andreas* hands out some UNIX barf bags. 12:20:08 <_8david> As far as I can tell, there is so much code related to prefetching that it must have worked for someone at some point, but I can't manage to get it to do anything. 12:20:46 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:20:49 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 12:21:23 But at least my blog is up again, with the latest and greatest software. 12:21:34 stassats: Yeah, I don't normally enter comments in the repl. I was just playing around. :-) 12:22:55 -!- PTSWorldFriend [~CaptainCo@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:23:02 PTSWorldFriend [~PTSWorldF@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 12:23:06 stassats: Cool. Are you generating the RS polynomial now? I just used a vector to represent the polynomial. But I guess I had to write the polynomial add and multiply routines to generate product((x-alpha^n),n,1,N). 12:24:12 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:24:50 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-30-105.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:25:02 -!- baley [~baley@87.229.24.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:25:29 that's what i would tackle next 12:25:47 -!- tcr [~tcr@89-251-198-185.chess.managedbroadband.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:25:49 minion: paste 115489 12:25:49 Paste number 115489: "andreas, can you load this and try a bogus get-protocol-by-name again?" by nikodemus in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/115489 12:26:23 abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 12:26:58 Unexpected error: Interrupted system call, result: -1 12:29:18 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e194-081.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 12:32:36 thanks 12:32:54 i'll just mark that as expected to fail, then 12:34:09 -!- decto [~decto@pdpc/supporter/student/decto] has left #lisp 12:35:41 -!- echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:13 nikodemus: ack. 12:37:02 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:38 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.208.185] has joined #lisp 12:40:35 Hraban [~user@78-22-147-148.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 12:42:22 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-76-24-31-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 12:47:06 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 12:49:46 aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:52:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:30 tcr [~tcr@89-251-198-185.chess.managedbroadband.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:57:35 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 12:57:49 Does anyone know of a way to replace a subseq of a string with other strings that allows the replaced part to be biger or smaller than the subseq? 12:58:22 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:59:10 (concatenate 'string (subseq 0 2) new-subsequence (subseq 4)) 12:59:53 is that even efficiently possible? if a string isn't represented as some extent-based structure you'll have to copy bytes around. 13:00:01 Are strings extent-based in sbcl? 13:00:38 flip214: strings are arrays of characters 13:00:50 flip214: in Common Lisp 13:00:55 jdz: thanks 13:01:10 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e194-081.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 13:01:11 then there isn't an efficient way (for arbitrary long strings) 13:01:18 -!- younder [~jthing@124.202.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:02:30 ovk [~ovk@95.179.31.137] has joined #lisp 13:02:48 come to think about it, i don't remember the last time i wanted to replace a substring... 13:03:04 strings can be implemented in whatever way you desire in CL 13:03:38 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-30-105.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:03:54 as long as you preserve the semantics of type (vector character)? 13:04:00 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:21 also, how is O(n) inefficient? 13:04:26 stassats: but this creates a new string I guess 13:04:38 sepi: it does 13:04:58 cmm: it's not O(1) 13:05:02 sepi: one free advice for you: try to limit your destructiveness 13:05:18 It'd be cool if sbcl represented strings as a vector of 8-bit bytes, and an auxilliary vector of 16-bit bytes for the high bits, if the string actually uses any. 13:06:10 i've seen people pull their hair out trying to debug innocent-looking code, and it turns out that some function somewhere destructively modifies a string that has initially been assigned to a constant variable 13:06:11 younder [~jthing@124.202.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:06:13 stassats: would an approach that would resize the string and copy stuff around be more efficient? 13:06:20 that was not lisp, but the point is the same 13:06:44 foom: doesn't sbcl represent 8-bit strings as such already? 13:07:11 sepi: if there is room for resizing 13:07:14 stassats: only ones you declare up front are 8-bit; it doesn't do it opportunistically 13:08:13 stassats: but even if the resizing of the string has to copy the whole string, it shouldn't be slower than an approach where you create new strings 13:08:33 so, you mean to allocate a vector for higher bits once one of the elements was set to a multi-byte char 13:08:43 stassats: yes. 13:09:34 that layout also has the side-benefit of only using 24 bits per char total, instead of 32. Don't know if that's actually valuable or not. :) 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:07 but it's not local 13:10:35 it may save space, but not time 13:10:50 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:53 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 13:11:20 well, maybe. 13:11:35 it's still less data to copy, but you're copying it from two locals not one. 13:12:08 I suspect copying from two linear memory areas is not too much worse than a single one. 13:12:34 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e194-081.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 13:13:06 the real potential for slowdown is probably just that it adds another dispatch point to vector access. 13:14:25 sepi: if you want efficiency, don't use subseq at all, just work on the whole string 13:14:58 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.208.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:14:58 stassats: I'll give it a try :) 13:15:51 as i said, you always can use bounding designators for sequence functions 13:16:27 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:40 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e194-081.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Client Quit] 13:16:44 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-143.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:17:04 e.g. instead of (string= "foo" (subseq bar 3 6)) you can use (string= "foo" bar :start2 3 :end2 6) 13:17:05 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:17:25 -!- ovk [~ovk@95.179.31.137] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:18:10 -!- tcr [~tcr@89-251-198-185.chess.managedbroadband.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:19:53 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e194-081.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 13:20:03 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:03 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:25:12 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #lisp 13:29:03 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:32:45 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e194-081.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 13:33:05 splittist [~John@host217-34-132-33.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:09 morning 13:34:39 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 13:36:23 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:36:51 rudi_ [~rudi@mineralogix.ifi.uio.no] has joined #lisp 13:38:47 -!- PTSWorldFriend [~PTSWorldF@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:05 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 13:39:38 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:39:38 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 13:39:47 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:41:09 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:41:13 rlb3 [~robert@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:42 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 13:46:31 Harag [~Harag@41.56.50.26] has joined #lisp 13:46:33 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: ByE] 13:49:17 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:49:22 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:51:08 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:20 adeht [void@91.121.18.93] has joined #lisp 13:56:12 Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:12 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:56:12 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 14:00:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-20-164.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:02:45 araujo [~araujo@213.28.64.66] has joined #lisp 14:02:45 -!- araujo [~araujo@213.28.64.66] has quit [Changing host] 14:02:45 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:04:13 -!- Ogedei [~user@p579F6BBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:04:37 PTSWorldFriend [~PTSWorldF@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 14:04:55 -!- andreas [~andreas@p4FF2B31D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:06:04 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:32 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:08:01 jpd [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:07 -!- jpd [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:14:48 -!- rudi_ [~rudi@mineralogix.ifi.uio.no] has quit [Quit: rudi_] 14:17:05 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:19:15 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:42 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-142-223.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:28 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.33] has joined #lisp 14:22:56 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:30:12 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:30:38 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:31:22 tcr [~tcr@89-251-198-185.chess.managedbroadband.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:31:48 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-62-75.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:32:02 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:33:20 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:38 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-9-148.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:34:31 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:35:18 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-35.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 14:36:31 bohanlon [~bohanlon@66.170.231.188] has joined #lisp 14:37:31 lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 14:38:28 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 14:39:03 jtza8_ [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-89-84.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:39:26 dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:26 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:39:26 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 14:39:58 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-20-164.iburst.co.za] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:40:09 -!- jtza8_ is now known as jtza8 14:41:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.231.231] has joined #lisp 14:42:25 minion: memo for Xach: re. all in client, no manual setup -- you and quicklisp are even cooler than i thought! the only thing then is to have an https url for the initial download :) 14:42:25 Remembered. I'll tell Xach when he/she/it next speaks. 14:43:01 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-147-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:53 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:46:52 anyone know of any decent libraries that can hook c functions, or attach and ptrace other processes.. i am looking for something that can breakpoint/single-step external processes 14:47:40 Decent? No. But I did do some initial investigation in the direction of using ptrace(). Or you could look into whatever protocol it is that gdb uses. 14:50:30 -!- benny [~benny@i577A30EF.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:53:00 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:53:01 benny [~benny@87.122.41.131] has joined #lisp 14:53:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-89-84.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:53:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-49-192.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:54:38 -!- Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0619.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:55:16 blitz_: around? 14:55:32 I often re-load a file with slime that has some defconstants, is there a way to either not let it bug me about it, or perhaps a better construct to use? 14:56:00 morning 14:56:01 slyrus_, memo from drewc: read the logs 14:57:19 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 14:57:34 Quadrescence: alexandria:define-constant 14:57:38 maden [~maden@198.168.103.254] has joined #lisp 14:58:30 Quadrescence: defvar/defparameter 14:58:53 stassats: i just noticed your nick is a palindrome WOW 14:58:53 in what case is there a warning ? 14:58:59 -!- lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:59:08 kuwabara: redefining a defconstant 14:59:11 erm, a constant* 14:59:13 Quadrescence: i noticed that too 14:59:36 I just tried, with clisp and sbcl, and only get an error when the constant changes, not when it's the same. 14:59:56 it compares with EQL 15:00:02 oh, ok. 15:00:15 _lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:02:27 stassats: how many times have your non-lisp peers made a joke about "defun"? 15:04:06 platypine [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:11 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:04:39 how can they be 'peers' if they don't lisp? 15:05:09 splittist: Maybe they're in charge of resetting network connections? 15:05:15 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:05:24 Quadrescence: what's so funny about defun? 15:05:47 defunt a french noun refering to a dead one 15:05:52 stassats: You know, people always say "bla bla DE-FUN like REMOVING FUN FROM bla bla" 15:05:55 "défunt" 15:06:07 Quadrescence: see, then it's not funny 15:06:09 I wish my non-lisp peers even knew what defun was :) 15:07:04 and lisp it'd be called makunfunny 15:07:24 haha 15:08:08 remove-not-unfunny 15:08:10 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.50.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:08:34 Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0619.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:34 abeaumont: that's deprecated, use (complement funny) 15:08:48 :) 15:09:00 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:09:03 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:09:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-49-192.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:09:05 and completion-fail 15:11:47 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:12:00 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 15:12:03 -!- wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:12:32 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 15:13:20 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:08 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:52 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:15:13 TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has joined #lisp 15:16:55 what's the difference between defclass and defclass*? 15:16:55 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:17:10 One of them is in the standard, for starters. 15:18:09 defclass* is somebody's macro which you have to look up the source of to see what it does 15:18:51 Or macroexpand-1 it. 15:18:51 ah found it by searching for defclass-star 15:21:49 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:22:14 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:22:19 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:04 yan_: there isn't a single defclass* 15:23:05 Xach, memo from nikodemus: re. all in client, no manual setup -- you and quicklisp are even cooler than i thought! the only thing then is to have an https url for the initial download :) 15:23:24 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23:24 -!- _lou_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:24:00 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:24:03 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:24:09 Xach: i found the one that was used in the code i'm looking at i think.. anywho, i think i should ignore this until i get way more comfortable with CLOS 15:24:21 yan_: not a bad idea 15:24:52 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:25:35 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Client Quit] 15:26:03 yan_: after that you can ignore it even more easily 15:26:08 tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:09 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:26:30 or even more confidently 15:27:13 -!- tcr [~tcr@89-251-198-185.chess.managedbroadband.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:27:49 stassats: :) 15:28:31 wvdschel [~androirc@188.188.230.142] has joined #lisp 15:28:39 Bronsa [~bronsa@host167-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:29:28 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host167-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:30:06 Bronsa [~bronsa@host167-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:30:09 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host167-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:30:39 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 15:30:43 Bronsa [~bronsa@host167-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:30:47 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-117-28.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:31:09 -!- platypine [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:34:35 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:34:52 -!- wvdschel [~androirc@188.188.230.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:03 -!- maden [~maden@198.168.103.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:55 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-60-197.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:37:16 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-60-197.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:37:50 wvdschel [~androirc@188.188.230.142] has joined #lisp 15:38:31 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:38:34 what lisp implementation uses the least memory? 15:39:12 I have an extremely memory constrained server, and would like to have a long running lisp process on it 15:39:38 dunno, htop on my machine says ccl has grabbed 512.1GB of virtual memory 15:40:03 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:40:09 wvdschel: how extreme is extreme? 15:40:10 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:40:15 hah, so not CCL I suppose :) you running on mac then? 15:40:23 smik [~siddhant3@180.215.57.206] has joined #lisp 15:40:26 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:40:43 Xach: I have about 50M free for lisp 15:40:44 any function for generating list of integer in a range (similar to range function of Python) 15:40:47 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 15:41:23 (loop for i from 5 to 36 collect i) (sorry for a macro!) 15:41:40 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.33] has joined #lisp 15:41:45 stassats: Hmm, no in built. That's fine with me actually 15:42:00 wvdschel: ah. i used to run a few different sbcl instances on a server with 256MB total. 15:42:24 wvdschel: your workload will determine how much memory it actually uses. wigflip.com uses around 100MB consistently. 15:42:28 jdz/wvdschel: that 512GB is overcommit  it has nothing to do with how much memory is being used. 15:42:38 sellout: i know :) 15:42:59 Xach: SBCL won't even install, since it can't compile itself or install from apt in such limited memory space 15:43:15 wvdschel: one option: don't use apt or try to compile itself 15:43:21 wvdschel: the binary from www.sbcl.org might work 15:43:37 sellout: i know, not many people get to say they have 512GB of memory :) 15:44:11 Xach: will try, thanks 15:44:25 Hi guys 15:44:33 wvdschel: for the webapp i'm now working on, SBCL uses about 150-160MB, CCL a bit below 100MB (both 64-bit lisps) 15:45:19 sellout: but it is always fun to see the red number of many gigs in htop :) 15:45:37 easy to spot ccl process 15:45:59 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@c-69-181-60-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:59 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@c-69-181-60-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:45:59 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 SBCL has claimed only 8GB of virtual memory 15:46:07 hm, ccl shows 5MB RES here 15:46:12 with a month of uptime 15:46:20 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has joined #lisp 15:46:31 stassats: yeah, the rest is in the swap? 15:48:02 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:02 maybe, i have NetBeans running 15:48:16 is there an idiom for converting strings into numbers if they are "obvious"? A sort of: (when (numberp (ignore-errors (parse-integer val))) (setf (val (parse-integer val)))) 15:48:41 Shaftoe: i sometimes use (every #'digit-char-p string) 15:48:43 clhs parse-integer 15:48:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_parse_.htm 15:49:37 stassats: is there anything in particular you are pointing at? 15:49:44 (multiple-value-bind (integer end) (parse-integer string :junk-allowed t) (when (= end (length string)) ...)) 15:50:25 I see. 15:50:40 so no other more established idiom than actually just doing the work each time then? 15:51:23 have to run, thanks for the help! 15:51:27 -!- wvdschel [~androirc@188.188.230.142] has quit [Quit: Bye] 15:51:46 Shaftoe: an idiom like putting what stassats suggested into a function? 15:52:56 jdz: nah, what I had before also works, is shorter and is already in my code. I meant an idiom like a nice trick that looks and feels less contrived. 15:53:16 something that would have made me slap my forehead and say why didn't I think of that before. 15:53:32 nothing can look more contrived than IGNORE-ERRORS 15:53:45 Shaftoe: using IGNORE-ERRORS... 15:53:48 what stassats said 15:54:37 I think you've misunderstood me: does my code fail? 15:54:55 Shaftoe: why bother with the numberp part? 15:55:20 what's wrong with junk-allowed? 15:55:25 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-32-146.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:55:47 Xach: it's a quick way to test whether ignore errors returned a number or a nil. 15:56:15 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host167-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:56:15 adeht: becuase junk allowed accepts "5 ponies" 15:56:16 Shaftoe: yes, but I don't understand why it's useful in your situation. 15:56:36 Shaftoe: stassats solved that 15:56:46 Shaftoe: what do you do if the string isn't an integer? 15:56:48 Bronsa [~bronsa@host167-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:56:48 oh dear lord. 15:56:56 I leave it untouched. 15:57:04 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:08 Shaftoe: what value does val have then? 15:57:28 Shaftoe: still, if the string does not contain a number [only], your code will leave the variable unchanged, which is still string, which will err later on in your code that expects it to be a number... 15:57:41 Shaftoe: your code doesn't fail too much 15:57:44 Shaftoe: oh, you realized it yourself. good 15:58:21 e.g. in case you accidentally pass it not a string, you'll have a hell of an interesting debugging session 15:59:11 Well, such are the perils of getting data from non perfect sources. like a credit card processing vendor. 15:59:36 I can safely say that if my vendor has returned me a string instead of a number in an HTTP request, then there will be problems regardless. 15:59:38 it doesn't seem to force to use bad code 15:59:43 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:32 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:00:40 So explain how you would work around receiving untyped data in string format and integrating it into your system. At one point or another, you will have to assume that the string is a number. Will you not? 16:01:04 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:01:09 i just showed you how 16:01:18 can dotimes be started from 1 instead of zero? 16:01:22 smik: no. 16:01:30 smik: loop can 16:01:38 Xach: Yeah, thats fine then 16:01:45 what does your code do that mine doesn't. 16:01:59 it doesn't silently ignore errors 16:02:10 extra work.. 16:02:40 (more like: less work) 16:03:38 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:04:01 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:04:22 adeht: I guess. I find that people attribute values of worth to certain code constructs. I find the use of ignore-errors to be perfectly acceptable when I'm actually writing wrapper code which is explicitly dealing with dirty data. It might do a few more runs around the rink inside, but as far as reading, it expresses the point well. 16:04:47 I find that ignore-errors is seldomly acceptable 16:04:59 adeht: I respect your position. 16:05:29 and ignore-errors may be not cheap too 16:05:43 it may not. And that's what I mean by a few more runs around the rink inside. 16:05:55 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:01 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:07:54 here's why I'm doing this: I get dozens of fields back from a vendor. it is not xml. (it's not text either mind you). I have a very thin wrapper that splits it along certain lines, and then trims the strings, and runs this conversion on each field. If it fails, it moves on. It's a single line loop. 16:07:55 Shaftoe: "just let it crash" http://www.erlang.org/pipermail/erlang-questions/2003-March/007869.html 16:08:03 one thing about ignore-errors is that it's misnamed 16:08:21 I think that the important thing is to consider errors as essentially a policy decision. 16:08:32 Later in my code, if the field I was expecting to be numeric turns out to be string, I get a condition, which will be much more contextual 16:08:52 if you want to make the error handling explicit, signal an error yourself, naming it appropriately 16:09:01 and then handle it appropriately 16:09:39 it actually has the useful property of returning the error, if caught, as the second return value (and nil as the first) 16:09:41 can you make it functional? (it might be easier to see where it comes from) 16:09:51 otherwise, I see no point in unfurling this loop into explicit lines, doubly so because it's text data being returned by a third party... data which might change any day in order or format. 16:10:06 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:10:17 Shaftoe: my code doesn't signal error in case the integer inside a string is malformed 16:11:03 it signals an error, for example, when you pass not a string as the first argument to parse-integer 16:11:22 minion: memo for wvdschel: clisp is quite small. You may also consider ecl, but it calls out gcc to compile programs. 16:11:22 Remembered. I'll tell wvdschel when he/she/it next speaks. 16:12:43 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host167-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:13:21 Bronsa [~bronsa@host167-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:14:17 p_l|uni_ [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:15:07 abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 16:15:48 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:45 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:20 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:18:34 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:19:18 -!- p_l|uni_ [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:20:09 Xach: just noticed your message concerning CCL arm ticket above. It's already fixed some time ago, but just in case, here it is: http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/ticket/747 16:24:40 jpd [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:32 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-87-127.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:28 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-60-197.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:26:35 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-60-197.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:32:32 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:35:01 -!- swilde [~wilde@aktaia.intevation.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:35:06 -!- dborba [~dborba@74.105.202.55] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:37:03 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:37:30 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:10 roygbiv [~None@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 16:42:48 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:42:55 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:46:01 dborba [~dborba@74.105.202.55] has joined #lisp 16:47:23 Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-5-31.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:50:19 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:28 ivan4th: thanks 16:50:33 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.96.86] has joined #lisp 16:50:49 ivan4th: someone emailed me directly about quicklisp on their phone, and it took me a few minutes to find the right ticket 16:51:07 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-32-146.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:23 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.190.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:51:26 hmm... quicklisp on a phone... :3 16:52:26 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:53:07 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:54:12 andreas [~andreas@p579F8ACF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:14 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:56:02 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-60-197.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:56:37 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-60-197.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:57:12 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.16.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:57:18 p_l|uni: that's why they call it IQ-lisp 16:57:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@i60-41-60-132.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:58:55 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:27 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A74E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:07 symbole [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 17:03:16 *andreas* points to http://blog.andreas.org/blog, and wishes to thank all people whose software is running there now. :) 17:06:35 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 17:08:26 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-77-173.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:08:32 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 17:08:50 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-60-197.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:09:16 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-60-197.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:10:19 kruth [~chatzilla@kruth.org] has joined #lisp 17:10:46 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:11:03 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:12:20 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:12:58 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:12 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:13:37 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914120618]] 17:15:42 Xach: there also was rather serious problem with defstruct that affected e.g. cl-yacc on all platforms: http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/ticket/750 , now fixed, too 17:15:48 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:17:53 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 17:19:12 *Xach* wonders if postabon is still using Lisp 17:19:14 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:19:50 they were really vocal at first and then became very silent. 17:20:18 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:20:28 here's a header: Set-Cookie: JSESSIONID=web4~D613A349D09CD47437BC1300B60098B4; Path=/ 17:20:30 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:21:28 didn't they flirt with clojure at some point? 17:22:03 their main developer guy was writing about using common lisp, which is where I became aware of the service. 17:22:43 Hum. More FASL backwards compatibility fail with ASDF2. 17:23:02 So I'll make ASDF-UTILITIES a (deprecated) nickname for ASDF. 17:23:05 p_l|uni: i thought it was CL from the start. 17:23:07 Hi Fare! 17:23:11 hi! 17:23:11 http://postabon.posterous.com/why-i-chose-common-lisp-over-python-ruby-and 17:23:14 Yes, I was griefing about this as well. 17:23:24 does xcvb try to do the same thing as asdf2? 17:23:30 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 17:23:33 sepi, which "same thing"? 17:23:40 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:24:46 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-127-140.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:11 i think this is a mullberry bush question, wherein he wanted to ask "what is the difference between xcvb and asdf2?" 17:25:26 row 17:25:28 Fare: well system definition and loading of systems 17:25:49 xcvb takes a different approach, but yes, in the end, they are both build systems. 17:27:08 Fare: I actually wanted to know the answer to the first question first. Now that I know that they essentially try to solve the same problem I'd also like to know what makes them different. 17:28:43 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:28:55 -!- Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0619.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has left #lisp 17:32:18 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 17:32:27 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:35 *Fare* tests before to push asdf 2.135 17:33:00 sepi: I wrote a paper for ILC 2009 that explains the differences. 17:34:07 please refer to it then come back with questions. One liner: ASDF side-effects the current image, XCVB purely builds files. 17:34:48 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:34:51 http://common-lisp.net/project/xcvb/doc/ilc09-xcvb-paper.pdf 17:37:24 Fare: thanks 17:38:28 <_8david> ok, this hurts. For queries like (eql (prc:oid-of table) 123), perec infers the type of 123 as NUMERIC (not BIGINT), meaning that PostgreSQL does a sequential scan on the ID column. 17:38:41 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:39:19 _8david: ok, i'll record a TODO/FIXME as a first step 17:41:01 spooneybarger [~spooneyba@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:20 oh, and XCVB works today. 17:41:36 though only on SBCL, CCL, CLISP at this point. 17:43:09 dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has joined #lisp 17:43:09 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has quit [Changing host] 17:43:09 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 17:43:55 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:43:56 *Fare* pushes asdf 2.135, which does pass all tests. 17:43:58 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:14 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:54 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 17:48:52 platypine [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:48 Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:48 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:51:48 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 17:52:07 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:52:07 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 17:52:07 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 17:52:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-63-32.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:52:52 Hmmm, nikodemus already gone 17:52:57 any other SBCL committers here? 17:53:45 flip214: if you want to report a bug, use launchpad 17:53:52 No, just a question 17:54:18 you can try #sbcl 17:54:25 Of course ... thank you 17:57:23 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:38 -!- spooneybarger [~spooneyba@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: spooneybarger] 18:00:46 jmbr [~jmbr@96.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:05:07 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:05:15 <_8david> attila_lendvai: thanks. I'm not really looking for someone to fix it for me, but I'd love to actually understand the plan and its type inference. 18:05:55 _8david: i've been looking into that code since then, and it's not a 5 minutes fix for someone who never saw the codebase... :) 18:06:11 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:06:16 _8david: i'm looking at match-types now, and my progress slowed down... 18:06:28 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:07:08 Anyone recognize what Lisp might be involved in http://groups.google.com/group/quicklisp/browse_thread/thread/b01fb067fe308ff4 ? 18:07:10 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 18:07:12 *Xach* wonders what "gdl-user" might be 18:07:42 <_8david> At the moment, we are several orders of magnitude slower than our old code base was. 18:08:05 <_8david> hlavaty has already fixed most of the cases where our queries slurped the entire database to lisp and did the filtering there :-). I've fixed slot prefetching today (I think), which reduces he overall number of queries. 18:08:30 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 18:08:59 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:10:08 <_8david> But between the type inference thing, our generated queries which often don't hit the query cache, and presumably various other little issues, it's still amazingly slow. 18:11:00 Xach: http://www.genworks.com/downloads/customer-documentation/index.xml 18:11:09 (pre)announce: my xml matcher for cxml-stp, in better shape than in previous code dump here on #lisp and without unneeded dependencies: http://github.com/ivan4th/xml-match 18:11:25 looks like it works on allegro 18:12:34 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:13:41 perhaps I'll write a blog post explaining how great it is for web scraping , along with another unrelated one describing my N900+CCL adventures 18:13:47 (later) 18:14:27 the matcher is heavily inspired by cl-ppcre 18:14:35 stassats: thanks 18:14:41 ivan4th: more dependencies! 18:15:02 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:15:07 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:39 Xach: for the matcher itself only needs cxml-stp (+cxml), alexandria and iterate, anything wrong with that? 18:15:58 ivan4th: too few. 18:16:22 the code dump also depended on my utilities which I try to use only for 'internal' projects 18:16:23 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:19:39 I'm still wrestling with a good design for working with Amazon's API XML. 18:22:54 although I mostly use xml-match to fight with broken html, it is perhaps not hard to write some kind of XML-BIND based on it. One interesting property of the matcher is that when a variable (?var) is encountered inside repetition, it's bound to the list of matches 18:23:42 I like cl-xmlspam 18:24:18 urandom__ [~user@p548A6F56.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:18 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:25:16 adeht: perhaps it's good, too. I guess adeht has more features while xml-match is more concise and less imperative. 18:25:30 *cl-xmlspam has more features 18:25:33 sorry 18:25:49 less imperative? 18:27:22 adeht: I see a lot of (format t ... ) stuff in examples which makes me think that information is extracted from XML by performing actions upon matching it with that Relax-NG like patterns, while xml-match just returns variable bindings as an alist 18:27:39 (a-la various matchers in PAIP) 18:27:49 -!- Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-5-31.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:40 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 18:29:01 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A6F56.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:20 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:08 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:32:38 caelan [~caelan@65.122.174.41] has joined #lisp 18:37:37 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 18:39:47 MagBo [~Sweater@87.246.131.149] has joined #lisp 18:40:28 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:41:08 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:44:08 Soulman [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:18 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:49 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:10 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:01 Is there anything out there that converts the expansion of the backquote reader macro into some platform-independent form? 18:48:33 Patzy_ [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:07 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:21 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:49:29 seangrov` [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:30 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:49:53 Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-77-194.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:50:23 http://www.cliki.net/Proposed%20Extensions%20To%20ANSI 18:50:43 In answer to my own question, it seems the alleged library for which I'm asking would be to *emulate* a bad idea. 18:53:30 coyo|pingout [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:23 -!- Patzy_ is now known as Patzy 18:56:07 -!- bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:19 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-77-173.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:57:47 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:57:58 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas16-montreal02-1242356804.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:58:18 -!- splittist [~John@host217-34-132-33.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 19:01:58 Modius, use fare-quasiquote 19:02:37 fare: Is it in fare-matcher or fare-utils? 19:02:54 fare-matcher 19:03:07 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas16-montreal02-1242356804.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:26 just curious, what was your guys' path to learning lisp initially? 19:03:36 And you're lucky -- I just fixed it so the simplifier works. 19:03:48 yan_: I'm still learning. 19:04:04 but I'm unlearning as fast, so I'm at equilibrium. 19:04:14 yan_: i'm still learning, but i got hooked when i noticed homoiconicity. 19:04:36 Fare: right, that's why i specified initially, like how did you start? 19:06:12 I'm still learning, but the thing that originally brought me in was curiousity about the Lisp Machines. My third attempt at writing a microcode disassembler (which turned into my second attempt at an emulator) was in Lisp because the versions in C weren't working out. 19:07:27 By this time, though, I had gotten to be fairly decent at reading ZetaLisp code and matching it up with disassembled functions. 19:07:48 hard to tell. I liked the HP RPL (Reverse Polish Lisp) from the HP28. Then Juliusz Chroboczek told me about Scheme and CL. I tried a bit of Scheme back in the days, but never got very far. Portable Scheme is a joke. Was using Bigloo Scribe for my documents. Wrote a bit of Lisp in a previous job; used Cliki. Experimented with pattern matching and wrote fare-matcher. Wrote Exscribe when Scribe went down. Then was hired at ITA Software. 19:08:41 i first encountered lisp while playing with a text-to-speech program under ubuntu 6.06 19:08:48 i don't really remember why i stuck with lisp 19:08:53 caelan: festival? 19:08:59 nyef: yeppers. 19:09:10 Mmm. That uses a Scheme implementation of some sort, IIRC. 19:09:32 right, i discovered scheme first studied it a bit, then moved on to cl. 19:09:46 now i do both. 19:10:05 i think festival uses siod 19:10:17 aeqa [~aeqa@173-162-164-137-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:55 I wrote a long Slashdot post several years ago concerning my C++ -> Scheme -> CL transition: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=172797&cid=14384567 . Small correction: as of now, I don't do any .NET stuff anymore, and I write Python, JavaScript and CL code for living. 19:11:34 ivan4th: incredibly lucky you are. i'm stuck writing java and c++ for the next few years of school. 19:11:35 s/post/comment/ (correction is related to the end of the comment) 19:12:54 For me, it was looking for a better language than I was currently using, Emacs, and Paul Graham's essays. 19:13:52 i actually took a longish detour into haskell for about a year 19:13:58 ivan4th: where are you from? 19:15:24 caelan: I didn't realize that while CL is good it doesn't give you any real magic powers until I started doing paid CL work... This pleasant illusion is an advantage of using CL for fun only... 19:15:35 yan_: Moscow, Russia 19:15:52 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:53 *rtoym* started learning lisp because he wanted to make emacs do what he wanted. Then he needed to learn and implement some crypto stuff, so bignums with a repl were perfect. 19:16:55 ivan4th: ah cool. i was born ~500km from you. 19:17:33 (kharkov, ukr) 19:18:05 ivan4th: while i realize cl doesn't really grant magic, i still feel it's somehow less unmagical than a lot of other languages. 19:18:35 looks more like 600km 19:18:51 stassats: the tilde absolves me from accuracy 19:18:51 yan_: nice :) I have some distant relatives in Ukraine too 19:18:54 My work is generally C#. C#3 (and when we can use it, 4) is fairly powerful, even with dullards restricting its use. But it's like seeping pictures without color, it's like there's an expressive dimension missing. 19:19:22 Also, it seems Lisp dev is a combination of language and workflow. It's more recently I've discovered how much faster editing s-expressions can be with higher Emacs mastery. 19:20:28 i like the small-function style 19:21:20 and the hofs are a boon 19:22:38 using REPL helped me a lot while developing an electron accelerator control system. Modifying the app while it's running is really important there. Due to some specifics of the hardware I would have to wait 10-15 minutes while the thing warms up if I had to restart the program after each modification 19:22:46 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.96.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:46 yes, the repl is very nice too 19:25:25 i'd say the repl is a critical feature. 19:25:31 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064221.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:25:43 killer feature 19:25:54 BTW, I've obtained permission to release the code of that control system. I'll have to withhold the klystron modulator driver part and the actual control code, but the async IO core (reactor), HSFM part, Modbus driver and HMI (which I'm still porting to CommonQt) will be released after some cleanup, along with sample 'teapot control' app perhaps 19:26:26 ivan4th: that sounds like a wild project 19:26:40 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:01 Fade: it's actual working control system driving an industrial electron accelerator 19:27:06 one of my interests is particle physics, so that could be interesting 19:27:27 how did you implement the reactor? 19:29:42 smik_ [~siddhant3@180.215.57.206] has joined #lisp 19:30:18 well, I have an abstraction layer which allows the protocol handlers to run on top of plain IOLIB or GUI library. Protocol handler is an FSM (different states for different connection states, etc.), it has methods like handle-incoming-data etc. Basically for each protocol (e.g. Modbus or that modulator control protocol) I define methods that allow to determine when the whole request/reply packet is accumulated in the 19:30:19 buffer and then handle it 19:30:46 it all runs in the single thread. 19:31:15 heh 19:31:26 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:30 ivan4th: nice 19:31:40 ivan4th: code will be released how? 19:32:08 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:32:42 yan_: I'll finish porting it to CommonQt (the working version uses patched CLG now), clean it up, grudgingly delete 2 years worth of git history and put it on github 19:32:48 darn, generating qr-code isn't so easy, mainly because of the lack of a free specification 19:33:07 -!- Kaer [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:11 stassats: how much is the specification? 19:33:50 -!- smik [~siddhant3@180.215.57.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:34:36 212 british pounds. 19:34:42 200 Swiss franks 19:35:11 qr-code? 19:35:40 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 19:35:40 ivan4th: sounds really interesting. I look forward to reading the code. 19:36:00 *drewc* disagress that lisp isn't magical when doing paid work, and so would his clients 19:36:07 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-214-86-155.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:14 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-127-140.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:36:17 Hmm. I really want a QR code generator, but Erik's birthday is coming up in a month, and I don't think he wants a specification document. 19:36:27 *drewc* still sees the magic every day! 19:36:45 stassats: how about reading other's code? http://megaui.net/fukuchi/works/qrencode/index.en.html 19:36:53 most magic per LOC i'm aware of. 19:36:57 -!- MagBo is now known as Tosh 19:37:01 flip214: it's painful 19:37:08 -!- Tosh is now known as Tosh[Drd] 19:37:22 http://www.scribd.com/doc/22796603/ISO-IEC-18004-2000-PDF-Version-en 19:37:25 Fade: i might put haskell up for that award as it's magic/LOC optimized 19:37:28 *cough* 19:37:33 -!- TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has quit [Quit: TheEnd2012] 19:37:38 andreas: booo 19:37:42 Not the 2006 version, but might get you started. 19:37:49 i ran across a quote somewhere saying that whether a language is magical depends on how you try to use it 19:37:54 understanding how to multiply polynomials over galois fields from undocumented code isn't great 19:38:01 drewc: :) 19:38:04 Xach: I'm shocked to find this, shocked! 19:38:20 gibr4ltar [58f4c707@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.244.199.7] has joined #lisp 19:38:33 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has left #lisp 19:38:39 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 19:38:49 stassats: did you see http://www.swetake.com/qr/qr1_en.html 19:38:50 ahh. two dimensional bar code. 19:38:58 flip214: yes 19:39:00 it's a shame that the spec is locked up. 19:39:12 aside from bad english, it's hard to comprehend and it's incomplete 19:39:28 Xach: I don't see a donate button on the quicklisp site or xach.com :( 19:39:31 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-103-53.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 19:39:51 i'm not saying it's impossible to write it using only free information, just not very easy 19:40:48 arbscht: If you buy a somewhat overpriced t-shirt, I get 15% :) 19:40:49 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-127-140.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:17 I guess that's something 19:41:37 15% of a t-shirt? 19:41:46 like one sleeve? 19:42:00 no, a little strip at the bottom edge 19:44:43 *stassats* is looking for some other barcode 19:45:44 the quicklisp shirt needs an mpaa style "X" rating box on the back. ;) 19:45:51 stassats: I've found a few more links for you, with some math 19:46:08 unfortunately you'll need someone who speaks japanese ... http://www.swetake.com/qr/qr3.html 19:46:14 http://nfggames.com/neography/pivot/entry.php?id=69 19:46:25 http://www.denso-wave.com/qrcode/aboutqr-e.html 19:46:39 flip214: i believe http://www.swetake.com/qr/qr3_en.html is a translation 19:46:41 s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 19:47:44 i already "understood" how to make reed-solomon encoder, because it's a well-known algorithm described in many places 19:47:57 Fade: here's how the control code looks like: http://paste.lisp.org/+2H4P It's part of Hierarchical FSM definition, the 'culmination' of the X-rays activation sequence (the accelerator is used to produce X-rays). Actually the most low-level stuff is done in uCs, but the upper level has some work to do too. The names with dot in front of them are 'cells' some of which are synchronized with uCs via Modbus etc. 19:47:59 well, good luck anyway ;-) 19:48:35 interesting 19:48:42 francogrex [~user@109.130.139.226] has joined #lisp 19:48:46 astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-36-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:48:55 the only other industrial control ap done in lisp that I'm aware of is the hubble scheduling stuff. 19:49:09 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:49:09 arbscht: I used to get inquiries about my wigflip software all the time: "can i have your software? i can't pay but i can link to you!" 19:49:11 i imagine there's more, but it isn't the kind of system that gets a lot of press. 19:49:21 arbscht: linking to me, in this case, works for me 19:49:26 Fade: why an X? 19:49:38 [X]ach 19:49:46 ah 19:49:56 ach 19:50:18 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:51:40 My S3 and cloudfront bills this month, so far, are $0.11 and $0.28. 19:52:14 that's quite a deal. 19:52:23 Can't beat it with a stick. 19:52:29 Jabberwock [~Jens@f050064221.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:52:41 i have my own machine room and it'd probably cost me more to host a project like quicklisp. 19:53:36 it just shows how unpopular lisp is 19:53:51 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:53:53 stassats: You're a disk-half-empty type? 19:54:04 Xach: how much in total download volume has ql used so far? 19:54:16 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064221.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:54:55 A few gigabytes. 19:55:06 *nod* 19:55:07 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:37 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:39 well, when every lisp under the sun uses it, and it starts catching on with the windows folks who don't seem to hang out in a freenode context, it could start to cost, I guess. 19:56:12 -!- Jabberwock is now known as Jabberwockey 19:56:32 set up a ql dist server that distrubutes stuff /w bittorrent. :) 19:56:46 then things can get federated. 19:56:48 *Xach* dares imagine it 10 times more popular 19:57:05 if it gets popular, you just line up some mirrors with unlimited bandwidth 19:57:23 there's plenty of places that are willing to host free software for free 19:58:01 complicated stuff like bittorrent isn't even necessary for popular linux distros. 19:59:11 skalawag` [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:41 *Xach* will worry about the effects of popularity after achieving popularity, not before 20:00:18 atomx [~user@92.81.118.66] has joined #lisp 20:00:40 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 20:00:41 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:01:13 bandwidth is hard to use 20:01:37 my cheapo server has 5TB traffic quota a month before they start throttling it to 10Mb/s. looks like I'm averaging 1GB / month of that 20:01:48 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:02:01 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 20:03:04 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas16-montreal02-1242356804.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:03:46 at this point costs in hosting are mostly associated with power and cooling. 20:03:55 <_8david> to use up traffic in the TB region easily, I recommend frequent and naively done backup jobs 20:06:46 Kaer [b@c-6bcfe253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:08:00 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:09:10 wakeupsticky [ae1d3fbd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.29.63.189] has joined #lisp 20:09:15 hi all 20:09:36 just wondering if anyone knows of a game or other simple type of program that doesn't rely too heavily on too many libraries 20:09:45 whose source code i could read to help me learn lisp :) 20:10:08 searching on sourceforge.net now 20:10:15 wakeupsticky: http://weitz.de/ 20:10:26 austinh: i like Towers by adeht 20:10:40 err 20:10:45 wakeupsticky: that was for you: http://github.com/death/towers 20:10:59 -!- gibr4ltar [58f4c707@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.244.199.7] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:11:03 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:11:03 cl-opengl is a quickload away! 20:11:29 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11:36 cl-opengl...can i apt-get that or should i use this newfangled quicklisp thingie? 20:11:38 I missed that he was asking about game code. 20:11:38 how about a good game of chess: miguedrez_0.95 20:11:38 francogrex, memo from pjb: I confirm that in ecl-10.7.1, dribble doesn't dribble the normal REPL interactions, but only error stuff. 20:11:49 ok 20:12:13 do quicklisp tarballs include revision control metadata? 20:12:35 are there any lisp libs for recording audio? 20:12:37 Fare: You mean like git and darcs directories? 20:12:41 yes 20:12:43 No. 20:13:04 wakeupsticky: whatever's easiest for you. 20:13:09 PuffTheMagic, not that I know. Common Music probably had something, but it must be obsolete. 20:13:16 Hi how do I "activate" unicode in ecl? for example (code-char 434) gives me this now : #\U01b2 20:13:25 wakeupsticky: I don't think it's apt-gettable 20:13:34 francogrex: looks legit 20:13:40 francogrex: Do you find that answer unsatisfactory? 20:13:57 PuffTheMagic, that said, other people have done music in CL, so there's code around. 20:14:01 so i save the quicklisp file and then (load /path/to/quicklisp.lisp) in slime? 20:14:14 wakeupsticky: sure. 20:14:17 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-103-53.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:14:34 nikodemus: can we do something against this? (SB-THREAD:GET-MUTEX # # # #) 20:14:43 i dont need to play audio, i just want to be able to dump the audio from a mic to a wav file 20:14:49 Xach: sbcl has more understandble answers 20:15:07 nikodemus: something deadlocks in swank/slime and all i can get is this when i tap C-c... would be nice to see which lock it is. 20:15:12 but all im seeing is playback libs 20:15:22 (defun move (dir) (if (look dir loc) 20:15:22 ((setf newloc (car (look dir loc))) (set-location newloc) (where)) 20:15:23 '(you hit a wall!))) 20:15:24 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:28 CG-USER(141): (move 'west) 20:15:28 Error: Attempt to take the value of the unbound variable `NEWLOC'. 20:15:28 [condition type: UNBOUND-VARIABLE] 20:15:51 nikodemus: hrm, actually i do see it a few frames away! it's "buffer write lock" held by "auto-flush-thread" 20:15:51 platypine: if you'd like to share code, please use paste.lisp.org instead 20:16:03 ok 20:16:18 I chose 434 at random but any (code-char 2434) -> #\U0982... I'd like him to tell me this is hewbrew letter Aleph or whatever 20:16:18 ok, quicklisp is installing :) 20:16:50 wakeupsticky: if you download Towers, you can add the towers directory to your asdf registry and just do (ql:quickload "towers"), i think. 20:16:54 *Xach* tries it to see if it actually works. 20:17:03 francogrex: the standard doesn't require this 20:17:13 well now that its there, how to fix that kind of problem, it works if i do it manually, but doesn't work within the function and gives that error 20:17:16 *caelan* wonders if #lisp has a ReplBot 20:17:23 no 20:17:32 and never will 20:17:35 ok, i have downloaded and installed quicklisp and set it to load every time i start slime 20:18:23 stassats: ok 20:18:46 so now i can do like (ql:quickload "[a library here]") and it will be installed? 20:19:10 -!- Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-77-194.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:19:49 ppasteau [~ppasteau@bas16-montreal02-1242356804.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:19:59 wakeupsticky: if "[a library here]" can be found with asdf or in quicklisp, yes. 20:20:11 where is a list of those libraries? 20:20:24 i'll be back 20:20:40 wakeupsticky: http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/releases.html has a list, or you can use (ql:system-apropos "some name") 20:20:49 there is a link of ~300 libs 20:20:59 that would be a search rather than browsing all though yes? 20:21:04 ty for link 20:21:16 wakeupsticky: yes, a search. 20:21:43 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:08 attila_lendvai: buffer-write-lock sounds like a slime thing 20:22:12 let me check 20:22:23 nikodemus: it is a slime issue 20:23:21 it's a heisenbug. it happens when i start our stuff and the web server worker threads are spawned. they probably log to *standard-output* or *s-e* and somehow it locks up slime. 20:23:31 i'll put a reminder for myself about deadlock detection, though :) 20:23:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.231.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:14 it's a headache to debug, because all reaction i can squeeze out is tapping C-c in *inferior-lisp* emitting a looooon stacktrace due to the nester error guard 20:24:29 attila_lendvai: you might try logging directly to sb-sys:*stdout* or sb-sys:*stderr* -- depending on what you need to happen, of course 20:24:30 and i'm not so proficient in debugging lisp using gdb 20:25:06 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:25:06 i'll validate my hypothesis first by setting the streams you suggests... lemmesee 20:25:55 adeht: darn, towers doesn't compile for me in sbcl on linux :( something to do with loading the .obj file 20:26:12 towers? 20:26:21 Jabberwock [~Jens@f050064221.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:26:36 error is: illegal sharp macro character: #\) 20:26:54 Xach: interesting, just compiled it here with 1.0.43.23 20:27:01 Xach: what are the requirements for addition into quicklisp? stable release? confidence that it does work? 20:27:18 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27:20 nikodemus: http://github.com/death/towers 20:28:01 Xach: can you paste the log? 20:28:18 i guess one of them is surely "more imaginative names" 20:29:02 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064221.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:29:28 Xach: towers::*data-directory* looks suspicious (and I never liked that hack anyway) 20:30:36 same thing happens here 20:31:13 nikodemus: darn, disabling my loggers using (make-broadcast-stream) didn't solve it, so i'm resorting to print debugging... deadlock detection would be a cool feature! 20:32:26 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:32:34 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:59 hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:36:04 let's see. my wip-deadlock-detection branch is on top of 1.0.23.41... 20:36:08 *nikodemus* rebases 20:37:14 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:37:29 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:37:32 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:37:48 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:21 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 20:38:54 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 20:39:05 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host167-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:39:19 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:42:34 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-212-186.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:36 -!- coyo|pingout [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:02 coyo|pingout [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:08 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-217-33.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:48:04 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:22 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:51:01 Xach: I'm guessing somehow a line is read from the .obj file where # appears as last character (but not first).. printing the line at http://github.com/death/towers/blob/master/towers.lisp#L159 would be nice 20:52:36 i want to test a condition, if its true do thing1, thing2, thing3, if its not do thing4, i'm trying to do it using (if cond ((thing1) (thing2) (thing3)) (thing4)) but i guess it doesnt let me do that 20:52:46 is there a simpler way to do something like that 20:52:58 platypine: progn.. or better, cond 20:53:12 so would i do like 20:53:29 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:53:48 platypine: (cond (test thing1 thing2 thing3) (t thing4)) 20:53:53 Using lispworks vs C++, I've got a loop on both that allocates an array of size 2, and assigning it to a "global" variable, in a loop, 100M times. The C++ one is much slower (yes, it's a release build). The Lispworks IS allocating 100M times (I wrapped it in a "Time" call), and memory stops growing at a point. Does it sound like I'm doing this correctly? What aspects of GC design make this case faster than a manual dealloc? 20:54:24 soo 20:54:29 does condition pick the first one that's true? 20:54:33 cond* 20:54:34 yes 20:54:37 okay cool 20:54:41 platypine: it tries the conditions in order 20:54:41 ty 20:54:49 Modius: show your code 20:54:58 so you have to make sure the order is ok when you have more cases 20:55:01 Modius: maybe because LispWorks probably can simply increase a pointer to do the allocation? 20:55:26 stassats: For the C++, in the loop: slot = new int [2]; 20:55:27 delete slot; 20:55:27 platypine: if you like, you can add a (t ...) clause at the end, which will execute if none of the other clauses were true 20:55:32 eh 20:55:38 Modius: paste.lisp.org! 20:55:41 For the CL: (defun test () (loop for i from 1 to 100000000 do (setf a (make-array 2)))) 20:56:06 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:56:25 Modius: try using another malloc. 20:56:41 p_l|uni: I get that, just don't grok how once it starts collecting it doesn't get crushed by the manual dealloc. I'm not surprised per se; but wanted to present to a friend how the "constant speed hit" isn't that simple. 20:56:52 Modius: also, if you new an array, delete an array 20:57:07 yan_: have a look at http://www.cliki.net/The%20Road%20to%20Lisp%20Survey 20:57:29 -!- skalawag` is now known as skalawag 20:57:32 -!- caelan [~caelan@65.122.174.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:57:45 adeht: Thanks, my C++ has gotten that rusty :( 20:57:55 Modius: that's the copying collector advantage. GC costs are proportional to the size of live data, while a mark/sweep or malloc/free approach has deallocation costs proportional to the amount of garbage. 20:57:57 Modius: allocating with a modern GC is dead cheap. GCing might take a while, depending on the patterns 20:58:00 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 20:58:49 The conversation started when I pointed out how sharing across threads had no extra cost over everything else; but he was saying that cost was a constant/immense and potentially in excess of locking. 20:58:59 On top of that, some GC designs make it easier to have really cheap allocation (e.g. pointer bump), but that's probably marginal when you use a decent malloc. 20:59:13 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:59:13 I changed the C++ to malloc/free; but as you said, small working set. 20:59:21 I guess too it depends how much is in generation 1. 20:59:46 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.139.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:20 what? sharing across threads incur costs, with cache coherence. 21:01:01 Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-77-240.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:01:01 pkhuong : I meant relative to a C++ smart pointer with a lock on the refcount (and the refcount itself). 21:01:14 no need for a lock. Just use atomic primitives. 21:01:43 -!- kruth [~chatzilla@kruth.org] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 21:01:53 pkhuong: Shows how much I knew about it back when I used the thing (it's been a long time). 21:02:06 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:02:18 Modius: I just assume boost gets it right. 21:02:35 pkhuong: Does boost discriminate between threadsafe and nonthreadsafe smart pointers? 21:02:54 I mean, offer both or is there just one that does refcounting? 21:02:59 urandom__ [~user@p548A63E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:34 Modius: iirc shared_ptr uses lock-free reference counting 21:04:07 adeht: if enabled. It punts to the programmer by default. 21:05:05 I see 21:05:07 adeht: Lock-free meaning atomic primitive or lock-free meaning unprotected? 21:05:45 Modius: with pkhuong's provision, it uses boost's atomic primitives 21:06:03 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:06:44 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:06:46 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:07:59 ivan4th: herep 21:08:41 stassats: Hum, so the other day you were trying to remember the other reason LOOP is not recommended in macroexpansions. I think I found why: it can mess up your form so that it doesn't accept declarations. At first I simply tried to replace PROGN with LOCALLY but then my ignore declaration doesn't see the variable I'm intending to reference. ARGGG. 21:09:08 Guess I'll have to finally look into TAGBODY or something. 21:09:16 yes it's declarations, and LOOP-FINISH 21:09:39 Instead of implementing simple low-level utilities based on complex high-level ones, hehe. 21:09:58 tagbody won't cut it either, PROG/PROG* is the way to go 21:10:14 also take a look at the parse-declarations library 21:10:19 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:10:20 Ah. I'll look into that then. After all it's a superset of TAGBODY (right)? 21:10:31 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 21:10:53 prog is a macro which uses tagbody (among other things) 21:10:59 prog is let+tagbody but also gets declarations right 21:11:02 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:11:10 +block nil 21:11:17 yeah 21:11:24 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 21:11:34 Just let+tagbody+block nil wouldn't get declarations right? 21:11:57 (Not necessarily in that order) 21:12:15 let, declarations, block, tagbody would work. 21:12:16 if you parse declarations 21:12:18 Well think about it, I'm sure you'll come to it yourself 21:12:53 Ok, anyway, time to read up on this. Thanks for the pointers. 21:13:12 Hexstream: alexandria:parse-body and alexandria:parse-ordinary-lambda-list are very handy for more complex macros 21:13:47 ok, let's see if this works... 21:15:49 -!- guther is now known as guther2 21:15:58 drdo` [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:16:01 attila_lendvai: http://github.com/nikodemus/SBCL/tree/wip-deadlock-detection if you want to try it out -- i'm not sure if it even builds right now 21:16:11 but i think i'm done for today :) 21:16:17 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:20 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 21:16:26 nikodemus: i'll give it a try, thanks! 21:16:39 stassats: (herep) -> t 21:17:07 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 21:17:12 ivan4th: i have some problems loading xpath into ccl, it doesn't like something about yacc 21:17:20 nb: it won't notice if the deadlock is due to a semaphore -- only circular dependencies between actual mutexes and spinlocks 21:17:22 and no problems with sbcl 21:17:35 -!- Jabberwock [~Jens@f050064221.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:17:39 stassats, are you using ccl from svn trunk? 21:17:40 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:17:44 aha, it doesn't build 21:17:46 yes 21:18:20 try updating, it's due to http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/ticket/750, it seems like they've fixed it 21:18:20 nikodemus: can you insert a print form in the towers code? I compiled a new sbcl and still can't reproduce the error 21:18:28 -!- guther2 is now known as guther 21:18:33 i just updated half an hour ago 21:18:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:18:56 stassats: hmmm.... did you rebuild it ? 21:19:04 naturally 21:19:17 i have r14360M 21:19:42 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:19:52 stassats: very strange. The error message mentions lr1-item or something like that? 21:19:54 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 21:20:04 yes, not being lr0 21:20:24 varjag [~eugene@Choice-NAT1-GJV.customer.comace.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:25 adeht: paste a patch for me to apply and i'll run with it 21:20:26 let me cross-check everything 21:21:14 -!- hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:35 oh, i didn't delete fasls, let me try 21:21:42 stassats: I've tried fresh armcl (ccl for ARM) this morning and it loaded xpath with no problems, so I thought they fixed it 21:22:13 -!- bohanlon [~bohanlon@66.170.231.188] has quit [Quit: Back later!] 21:22:22 stassats: they've made stricter defstruct type checks in r14305 http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/changeset/14305 , but ccl defstruct code stored wrong types for inherited slot accessors 21:22:28 yep, working fine now, sorry for the fuss 21:22:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:23:00 -!- guther is now known as guther2 21:23:06 stassats: no problem. 21:23:11 nikodemus: http://paste.lisp.org/display/115517 21:23:58 nikodemus: after applying, load towers and paste the log 21:24:21 is there something like "pcl with exercises"? 21:24:33 i won't remember this stuff if i don't do exercises 21:25:42 here's an exercise from me: write a Reed-Solomon encoder 21:26:00 dyelar [~dyelar@129.237.20.75] has joined #lisp 21:26:38 how about an implementation of Go Fish instead? 21:26:39 -!- guther2 is now known as guther 21:26:53 minion: memo for francogrex: Have a look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/115518 ; character may be princ'ed literally, or prin1'ed readably. If you want to see the glyph, use princ. 21:26:53 Remembered. I'll tell francogrex when he/she/it next speaks. 21:29:32 antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-196-3.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:34 ... Reed-Solomon? Still on Galois fields? 21:30:21 i've crossed them 21:30:31 what about Common Lisp: a Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation? 21:30:39 I think I read like four chapters of that a long time ago. 21:31:15 i got the idea, but not expressed it in code yet 21:31:35 wakeupsticky: it's good 21:32:02 yeah, i remember now...i got to the ancestry exercises 21:32:15 yeah, i think i'll work through that first and then read through PCL 21:32:40 you can try projecteuler.net 21:33:08 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 21:34:08 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 21:35:46 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 21:36:07 and it will refresh your math too 21:36:08 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:36:28 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:39:24 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:35 -!- wakeupsticky [ae1d3fbd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.29.63.189] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:40:42 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:42:37 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas16-montreal02-1242356804.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:42:53 katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has joined #lisp 21:43:10 -!- ppasteau [~ppasteau@bas16-montreal02-1242356804.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:43:11 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:07 -!- guther is now known as guther2 21:46:21 -!- guther2 is now known as guther 21:46:45 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas16-montreal02-1242356804.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:46:46 ppasteau [~ppasteau@bas16-montreal02-1242356804.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:47:01 adeht: the problem appears to be that quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/cl-opengl-20101006-git/gl/util.lisp defines a STARTS-WITH that kills the definition from alexandria 21:47:35 -!- astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-36-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 21:47:38 which is pretty embarassing for me, since i should be the one reflexively locking packages in sbcl... 21:47:40 -!- katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:47:50 *nikodemus* goes #+sbcl (:locked t) in alexandria 21:49:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:49:05 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 21:49:38 ... I just seen most awesome "brag about your computer" post EVER. A guy showed up with MIT ITS running on *real* DECSYSTEM2020.... 21:52:40 and i'm writing this from an ENIAC 21:52:48 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52:57 stassats: still, it's running MACLISP :D 21:53:09 (and could be probably used to bootstrap CMUCL... *snicker*) 21:53:23 I'm writing this on a Dick Smith VZ200. If you have anything to say about that, keep it short so your comment will fit in ram. 21:53:45 at least you can use twitter 21:53:56 blabla [~lisps@BSN-61-55-57.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:08 -!- smik_ [~siddhant3@180.215.57.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:54:16 *p_l|uni* is getting a 3270 21:55:57 -!- guther is now known as guther2 21:56:08 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:56:21 -!- s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:56:23 smik [~siddhant3@180.215.109.173] has joined #lisp 21:57:19 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 21:57:21 -!- roygbiv [~None@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 22:01:43 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 22:02:26 -!- varjag [~eugene@Choice-NAT1-GJV.customer.comace.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:02:44 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.201] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:14 -!- dyelar [~dyelar@129.237.20.75] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:10:44 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:17:25 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 22:19:51 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:22:20 -!- blabla [~lisps@BSN-61-55-57.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Quit: blabla] 22:24:54 -!- Hraban [~user@78-22-147-148.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:06 nikodemus: thanks.. I'll import-fromize it 22:26:10 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:27:11 afk 22:27:19 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:27:31 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-196-3.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:28:03 Hraban [~user@78-22-147-148.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 22:28:09 antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-196-3.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:37 nikodemus: oh, so the problem is cl-opengl 22:28:48 nikodemus: indeed I didn't have the latest version 22:29:56 -!- dose [~dose@offyourtrol.li] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:30:24 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu264.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:32:53 -!- guther2 is now known as guther 22:33:50 adeht: if you add (:shadow #:once-only #:starts-with #:rotate) to CL-OPENGL's package definition you should be good to go 22:34:22 (those are the three symbols i noticed where it clobbered alexandria's definitions) 22:35:44 nikodemus: cool.. should tell _3b 22:39:07 -!- Tosh[Drd] [~Sweater@87.246.131.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-63-32.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:41:47 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 22:43:55 wakeupsticky [47d02dae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.208.45.174] has joined #lisp 22:44:06 installing quicklisp broke SLIME X( 22:44:59 oh? 22:45:08 how so? 22:45:23 ASDF could not load sb-posix because Not an absolute pathname #P"~/.clc/systems/". 22:45:35 good night 22:45:41 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:45:47 wakeupsticky: fix is listed at http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/release-notes.html 22:46:26 How do I remove and purge the cl-asdf package? 22:46:38 weriuw [WUjCPgN1@dslb-092-076-103-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:39 apt-get --purge remove cl-asdf 22:48:18 -!- weriuw [WUjCPgN1@dslb-092-076-103-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:48:28 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.218.96] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 22:49:51 uh, i ran that command and it looks like it removed sbcl and slime from my computer... 22:50:12 ie i ran apt-get --purge remove cl-asdf and now when i try M-x-slime in emacs: 22:50:24 Searching for program: no such file or directory, lisp 22:50:28 you should've read what it said before answering Y 22:50:48 can we get fare to back ASDF2 back out to where it was a few weeks ago? 22:51:02 yes i should have :( 22:51:07 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:14 -!- aeqa [~aeqa@173-162-164-137-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:37 ok i'm apt-getting sbcl 22:53:14 ok i can't delete the file i'm supposed to delete with the gui, will i be able to do it from the cl? 22:53:40 "oh no, quicklisp is going to make it easy for newbies to get started with CL and lotsa cool libraries! quick! start breaking things in difficult-for-newbies-to-track-down ways!" 22:54:11 that seems extremely cynical 22:54:38 that's me! 22:54:51 do you really think people are sabatoging quicklisp? 22:55:02 no 22:55:26 I just got bit the same thing upgrading SBCL yesterday, which also contains the new ASDF and therefore the new problem. 22:55:51 I'm just mildly annoyed, not actually suggesting that people are out to actively make your life difficult 22:56:12 lol XD 22:56:48 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:53 ok, so i'm about to delete /etc/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/02-common-lisp-controller-userdir.conf 22:57:08 unless someone tells me that's a bad idea even though the quicklisp release notes recommend it 22:57:41 you can always copy it to a safe and warm place 22:57:48 this is true 22:57:54 <-- slow in the head 22:58:09 wakeupsticky: I think you're really better off avoiding your package manager for lisp stuff; just get the sbcl binary from www.sbcl.org and use quicklisp for everything else. 22:58:35 that's the idea. 22:58:48 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:58:55 it's just that i installed quicklisp and slime stopped working, so i'm trying to fix that. 22:58:57 quicklisp should provide prebuild self-containing binaries for common platforms 22:59:18 -!- Soulman [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:00:12 whoops! "Couldn't load "usr/share/common-lisp/source/slime/swank-loader.lisp": file does not exist. 23:00:18 I didn't delete that one! :\ 23:01:23 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-127-140.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:01:27 but i did run apt-get --purge remove cl-asdf 23:01:34 which removed sbcl, which i reinstalled 23:02:02 it means that you haven't removed slime, or restarted emacs 23:02:14 wait, i need to REMOVE slime? 23:02:31 well, you removed swank 23:02:44 (a part of slime) 23:02:57 i did sudo apt-get install swank but swank isn't a package 23:03:06 it's cl-swank 23:03:25 done 23:03:49 and the same with slime 23:03:51 that fixed it 23:04:03 no, i guess i never removed slime 23:04:11 i did sudo apt-get install slime but it was still there 23:04:24 though getting slime from CVS should be a better idea 23:04:34 so now that i removed that file slime is working 23:04:34 i don't know how quicklisp deals with slime 23:04:42 slyrus_, what else is wrong with ASDF2 ? 23:05:03 so now i have sbcl with slime and i have downloaded and installed quicklisp and set it to load automatically 23:05:43 so now say i decide i want to write a gui app...i will use quicklisp to get the library or libraries i need? 23:06:13 wakeupsticky: if quicklisp knows about those libraries 23:06:22 ok 23:06:28 wakeupsticky: but, you should probably ask quicklisp questions on #quicklisp 23:06:37 right :) 23:06:42 i might go there then actually 23:06:49 try (ql:quickload "mcclim") 23:07:01 thanks for the helpaustin and xach 23:07:03 Ur5us [~Ur5us@121.98.212.19] has joined #lisp 23:07:25 that appears to be working 23:07:44 i read about mcclim a bit 23:07:52 functional reactive gui library? or something like that? 23:08:24 nope, object oriented buzzword library 23:08:32 lol 23:09:15 a library for generating OOP buzzwords? :P 23:09:23 sounds fun 23:09:37 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 23:09:37 nothing wrong with the oop paradigm 23:09:43 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.217.178.169] has joined #lisp 23:10:22 wakeupsticky: just "object oriented gui library" didn't sound impressive 23:10:30 so i inserted a random buzzword 23:10:50 oic 23:10:51 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755233.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:10 well, looks like quicklisp is installing mcclim, though it's taking a bit 23:11:17 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A63E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:21 never know if these things are just going to randomly stop with an error message 23:12:40 doing after that (ql:quickload "clim-examples") might be more interesting 23:12:54 the buzzword you were looking for is "toolkit" ;) 23:13:07 *stassats* is trying quicklisp for the first time 23:13:15 to know what i'm talking about 23:13:46 did you grab mcclim? 23:13:53 i wonder if it's ever going to finish :\ 23:14:05 it seems to have stalled, but my fan is going hard still lol 23:14:06 it's a large chunk of code 23:14:12 kclifton_ [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:24 it make take awhile to compile 23:14:38 it's all package clim-postscript that's taking the time 23:14:43 *stassats* is witnessing dots 23:15:01 yes, lots of dots, but tell me if it stops at clim-postscript package 23:15:01 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:15:42 quicklisp should include prebuilt fasls too 23:15:54 -!- kclifton_ [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:16:05 ok, successfully running (clim-demo::demodemo) 23:16:24 so yours didn't stall at clim-postscript? 23:16:44 naturally 23:16:54 :\ 23:17:01 maybe i should kill emacs and try again 23:17:16 i don't see why it should load clim-postscript at all 23:17:53 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:18:32 trying again 23:20:00 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:49 wait, maybe it installed successfully last time 23:20:58 i just go ("mcclim") 23:21:00 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:21:31 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:58 Undefined function: CLIM-DEMO::DEMODEMO 23:22:23 that's why you need (ql:quickload "clim-examples") 23:22:44 ok, doing that now 23:23:32 Fare: hello 23:23:45 i'm still waiting to hear back about a space. might call his office :) 23:23:52 for the worcester "rehearsal" 23:24:46 anyone speak russian here? 23:24:50 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:24:55 sweet, that worked 23:25:02 dto: i do 23:25:08 dto: I do, too 23:25:11 i've received an email that may genuinely be for me, but it's in russian, and i'm not sure if it is a job application or something 23:25:13 or spam :) 23:25:15 hold on 23:25:31 try google translate 23:25:52 #lisp translate is better 23:26:02 if there are any russians on, anyway 23:26:09 http://imagebin.ca/view/5_kbFx.html 23:26:26 gentlemen, there are certain questions, that come to me 23:26:35 and i realize, only the sages can give a quick answer. 23:26:36 meaning 23:26:38 #lisp 23:26:58 is it spam? 23:27:06 see, my game was featured on a russian website 23:27:08 dto: sysadmin looking for job. maybe showing his spamming skills at the same time 23:27:15 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:27:18 what do you mean 23:27:20 it's spam? 23:27:39 are you waiting for a job application? 23:27:57 http://rlgclub.ru/wordpress/2010/03/26/xong-a-colorful-puzzle-game-in-common-lisp/ 23:28:02 dto inc. now hiring 23:28:03 no i was just curious. 23:28:05 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:11 hi schmrkc :) 23:28:19 hey dto man 23:28:33 schmrkc: i'm gonna do a Get On Da Mic ps2 video tonight 23:28:33 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:28:35 and post it 23:28:44 stassats: that page is about my game :) 23:28:46 in lisp 23:29:07 they also reviewed another of mine, hold on 23:29:10 hey stassats, thanks for the help 23:29:19 dto: admit that you mailed spam to yourself just to drum up #lisp interest for your game 23:29:27 no 23:29:32 where would i get russian spam 23:29:38 -!- wakeupsticky [47d02dae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.208.45.174] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:29:54 schmrkc: the game was already on slashdot. 23:30:14 schmrkc: hows the kettlebelling 23:30:51 stassats: i looked through it and saw a skill list so i thought it might be something. i am actually looking for a job. 23:30:53 -!- konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:31:00 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.65.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:31:34 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:31:52 somewhere there an "in soviet russia" joke is hovering 23:31:52 i said no when you asked if i was waiting for an application, i'm actually waiting for inquiries about things i might do for another company. 23:32:05 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:06 i mean, i hope you do not feel i wasted your time. 23:32:33 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.65.200] has joined #lisp 23:32:33 and that was an application, albeit somewhat generic looking, opportunistic 23:32:36 anyway, i didn't realize it was an application, and not an offer or something 23:32:41 dto: not at all 23:32:51 sonnym [~evissecer@209.150.227.212] has joined #lisp 23:33:20 dto: It is good as always. Having some difficulties pressing the 88lbs one for reps with my left arm. It is the problem of not being strong. But I'll leave this talk outside of #lisp now :) 23:33:32 o rite 23:33:33 :) 23:33:42 dto: they're a grupy bunch ;) 23:33:54 what is grupy 23:33:58 especially when you don't use metric system 23:33:59 grumpy 23:34:01 oh 23:34:03 i've never found that 23:34:11 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:34:30 stassats: I prefer 40kg really. But I did 88lbs because I figured it was mostly USAians on here :) 23:34:33 dto: Me neither 23:34:59 entropax [~entropi@192.55.54.38] has joined #lisp 23:35:12 schmrkc: ok time for hip hop video making 23:35:14 ;) 23:35:26 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:35:35 dto: I'm mostly planning my eating for the next 12 weeks at the moment. I'm gonna be starving. Lookin' forward to your hiphop there 23:35:45 :) 23:35:53 schmrkc: There are many non-USAians here too, and it's the international standard! :) 23:36:20 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 23:37:23 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:06 most of my american friends think metric is a good idea, and are somewhat rueful about the state of measurement in their country. :) 23:38:43 although I have on who is an advocate for the imperial system... but he also belongs to the flat earth society in a non-ironic way. 23:39:03 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 23:39:52 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@209.150.227.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:40:14 Fade: I remember some year ago someone in #emacs was trying to explain why inches were much superior to metric units. 23:40:21 schmrkc: you mean 2.5 poods? 23:40:38 stassats: Exactly. 23:40:56 there's no good reason for not using metric at this point. 23:41:03 hell, even NASA switched over. ;) 23:41:20 that caused some problems 23:41:26 no foolin' 23:41:36 i think they switched because of foreign contractors 23:41:46 retrofitting 200 million cars with accurate speedos would be an interesting excercise. 23:41:59 or a cash windfall for the state. 23:42:14 stassats: My actual goal is strict military press of the 3 pood one. and maybe actual get into the fun that is girevoy sport next year. After seeing v. fedorenko in action well.... thats art in motion. 23:42:18 stassats: 2.54cm 23:43:11 Fade: I think the argument went that for carpenters inches were much better because it was easier to measure by eye 23:43:21 but.. who would want that anyway? 23:43:29 i don't think i'll be able to press one pood, maybe once 23:44:50 stassats: Me and tic are in the "world's strongest lisper" competition. We figured we did't have much chance in worlds strongest man.. but lispers? how hard can it be? :) 23:45:43 *stassats* is into "world's fastest lisper" competition 23:46:15 *Fare* is the world's most Fare lisper. 23:47:36 Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who's the Farest of them all? 23:48:49 Demosthenes [~demo@204.52.135.237] has joined #lisp 23:49:12 (: 23:53:12 Fare: I like SI, but sometimes I wonder if the imperial system wasn't closer to some fundamental unit system. Eg. 1 foot is 1 ns-light. 23:53:18 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-196-3.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:53:25 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:02 pjb: well, the second is not a very meaningful unit. 23:54:14 One heartbeat. 23:54:25 too variable 23:54:30 that's pretty damn far from fundamental. 23:54:37 :-) 23:54:46 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:54:50 Perhaps there's some link hidden somwhere. 23:55:03 lol