00:01:36 nyef: Was the LispM microcode writable? I thought x86 had some special writable microcode too. Maybe I'm just totally confused. 00:02:16 The CADR microcode was certainly writable: AFAIK, we even have the assembler for it. 00:02:43 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:25 The Explorer and Explorer II microcode was writable: We don't have the assembler, but we have the field definitions, the microcode was stored on disk aside from a small startup ROM, and at least the original Explorer hardware had microcode overlays for certain things. 00:07:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:11:56 Hex: you mean for Laplace transforms? 00:13:44 or just for mixing up vibrations 00:13:54 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:48 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 00:14:54 rtoym: clisp is beginning to have a jitc... 00:14:55 drake1: I don't know what a Laplace transform is, so I guess not. 00:15:05 Hexa: ok 00:15:55 pjb: I know. But it's not quite there, yet. :-) I always liked clisp because it was small and pretty fast. With the really nice long-float support. 00:16:07 modern packing techniques are faster. not that I care wither 00:16:11 either* 00:17:56 would rather like to know how much violin than tones 00:19:27 drake1: that does not mean anything. Could you please write English? 00:19:41 it doesn't matter 00:19:52 only got confused by your s-expressions 00:21:06 since god is a crazy woman, the truth might be closer to the street 00:21:20 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:00 -!- srolls [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:48 ... Have you recently been involved in an accident resulting in an impact to the head? 00:23:18 the one who changed the term of sexpression? 00:23:49 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:26:14 No one has changed the term s-expression. 00:26:55 then what's the domain for S-expression? 00:27:33 This is a Lisp channel. S-expression is well-defined here. It has nothing to do with Laplace transforms. 00:27:49 fine 00:28:12 then I don't have to misunderstand 00:28:26 When would you have to misunderstand? 00:28:47 when I thouoght of S-expression as Laplace transforms 00:29:29 is there a pretty pretty function for deeply nested cons lists? 00:29:30 of course, in Lisp they do it elsewise. fine enough I guess 00:29:38 maybe even a graph visualization system that ties into that format? 00:30:01 Like quote? 00:30:12 '(+ 1 2 (hello) "test") 00:30:18 -!- dreish [~dreish@2002:cf8a:2fad:0:21f:5bff:fe35:ae0d] has quit [Quit: dreish] 00:30:25 Well, that's not deeply nested but you get the point. 00:31:15 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:31:25 Hexstream, no I mean I have a recursive function that builds a tree... but I need a way to see it to check if it is correct 00:31:40 print. Or maybe pprint. 00:34:00 rtoym: I like clisp because it runs on ARM linux :) 00:34:16 vsbuffalo: If your tree has a special format, you could write your own pprint function to print it in the way you want. 00:34:18 -!- navigator [~navigator@p54894137.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 00:34:42 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has joined #lisp 00:35:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:16 -!- logia_th [~nmo@83.35.117.177] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 00:43:50 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:44:40 dreish [~dreish@2002:cf8a:2fad:0:21f:5bff:fe35:ae0d] has joined #lisp 00:46:31 *rtoym* wonders if the cmucl release notes should be in html.... 00:48:39 vsbuffalo: replace each space by a new line and reindent. 00:49:22 *Xach* has a crude scheme that works with almost all the amazon web services from CL 00:49:52 "crude" in the incomplete sense. the actual implementation was fun and easy, so far. 00:50:27 Xach: will this be available for use soon? 00:51:14 -!- coyo [~tama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:52:18 schmrkc: Once I get a little further I'll push what I have to github. I'm not going to wait for polishing it a lot before I do that. 00:53:22 But with just a couple hundred lines of code I was able to do some stuff with their totally-new identity & access management service, and messed with simpledb, and queried ec2 00:53:50 Very cool. 00:53:53 almost everything except S3 and CloudFront use a very similar API. 00:57:03 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 00:57:05 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:58:09 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:58:14 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:58:39 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:05:42 coyo [~tama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 01:05:51 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:06:04 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:46 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 01:09:39 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 01:11:18 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:13 moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 01:12:40 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:17:01 -!- Kaer [~b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:19:27 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 01:20:30 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-79-57.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 01:23:14 __key__ [~key@unaffiliated/--key--/x-2566208] has joined #lisp 01:23:18 <__key__> wh00p 01:23:22 <__key__> u guys program list ? 01:23:34 <__key__> s/list/lisp 01:23:40 No. We program Lisp. Common Lisp. 01:24:00 <__key__> no iterators ? 01:24:27 <__key__> pretty crazy 01:24:53 -!- __key__ [~key@unaffiliated/--key--/x-2566208] has left #lisp 01:25:20 Too crazy for him, I guess. 01:25:39 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx57-2b-94.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:23 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:34:01 rtoym: woo cmucl 20b! 01:34:07 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:08 ephcon_ [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:13 Coincidentally, 20b was tagged exactly 364 days after 20a, I think. 01:37:14 nice 01:37:28 I should have waited a day. :-) 01:37:39 CMUCL is still going?... Wasn't it superseded by SBCL?... 01:38:27 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:39:10 Hexstream: according to the SBCL people, probably yes ;-) 01:39:27 Hexstream: No. 01:39:33 maybe something with platforms not supported by SBCL? 01:40:12 antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-203-9.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:13 In what areas does CMUCL surpass SBCL? 01:40:37 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-9-206.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:40:51 Or maybe a concise description of the differences isn't possible... 01:40:57 Hexstream: did you know, that XFree86 is still releasing new versions too? :P 01:41:33 You mean new versions of X? That would make sense given that X is widely used... 01:41:35 Hexstream: FASL compatibility between versions, more features "in the box", such as an editor, X-Windows interface, et cetera. 01:41:40 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-140-168.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:42:03 Hexstream: It makes less since given that everybody uses xorg these days instead of XFree. 01:42:10 Ah. So it's more "kitchen-sink" ;P 01:43:10 Ok. My knowledge of lower-level linux stuff is, uh, severely lacking. I never even used an FFI. 01:44:28 according to wikipedia sbcl started off when the founders of the project wanted to seriously test and develop a version of cmucl with some experimental work in it (mainly, bootstrapping from any compliant common lisp implementation) 01:44:29 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:44:43 without breaking mainstream cmucl, that is 01:45:02 Or anything else than Common Lisp and before that, Java. Well I learned C++ from a book before that but the only program I produced was a console program that converted between hex and decimal so that doesn't count. 01:45:40 Hexstream: then you should read rather maybe 01:46:07 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:45 Hexstream: I meant new versions of XFree86, the project that was forked and widely abandoned for the X.org project by the community because of internal strife 01:47:00 Is that a verb?... "To read rather maybe"? If you mean reading books, well first of all I'm completely broke. Second, I'm kinda busy with slowly getting rich. 01:47:35 sounds like you need to buy some books so you can get rich faster with your newfound knowledge ;-) 01:48:13 That kind of knowledge doesn't figure in my rather concrete plans for getting rich. 01:48:20 come on there's so much to read online about the C ABI online, it's not just linux lower-level you're missing out 01:49:00 (scratch the online of your choice) 01:49:01 There isn't much at all that I'd like to do right now that would require this kind of knowledge. 01:49:14 man. Staying up until 04:30 when you were extremely tired all day and have to get up at 07:00 the next morning because you need to finish some work and some unexpected troubles came up sucks.. 01:49:23 I really can't handle lack of sleep :( 01:49:28 sytse: tell me about it 01:49:43 sytse: try polynapping ? 01:49:45 Probably the first time I'll use an FFI is to hook up to epoll directly. I made pretty much a whole-stack web framework and the only thing I really need to replace eventually is hunchentoot. 01:49:49 my wife's dad passed away last week and i've had two jobs + 31 month year old daughter to cope with 01:50:06 luckily she's great at client visits. 01:50:26 she takes her little (leapfrog) computer and sits right next to me and types as much as I do. 01:50:29 bougyman: So you can outsource the client visits to her? 01:50:36 Hexstream: have a look at antiweb 01:50:42 nyef: soon, brother, soon. 01:51:01 she needs to graduate from the leapfrog to archlinux 01:51:05 billitch: any kind of napping is very, very dangerous right now because it would probably mean not finishing because of oversleeping and thus having to seriously disappoint a client of ours ;-) 01:51:53 sytse: heh of course, polyphasic sleep gets you very tired for the first weeks 01:52:06 what is it good for? 01:52:14 .. a client which I'm going to meet tomorrow (today; thursday) while falling asleep, most likely 01:52:20 billitch: There's an immediately obvious problem with antiweb. It was Not Invented Here. 01:52:22 your body adjusts. 01:52:38 Hexstream: which "Here" ? 01:52:40 billitch: yes, it's not possible to switch to polyphasic sleep without taking a couple of weeks off 01:52:43 Here. 01:52:44 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-134-127.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 01:52:45 (which is also impossible right now) 01:52:57 i was sleeping in two or three 2-3 hour shifts for nearly two years in the Corps 01:53:07 Hexstream: i don't see your point 01:53:09 I think I'd better just go jogging a couple of times a week 01:53:34 It's inevitable. I'll end up writing my own OS, at least. I'm peeling off layers one by one. 01:54:02 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 01:54:08 -!- moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:54:11 that helps a lot and doesn't involve being impossibly sleepy for the first one to two weeks and getting into a rhythm that's cumbersome when you have to stick to a working day of 08:30-17:00 01:54:19 Hexstream: http://xkcd.com/761/ 01:54:39 Whats good about this polyphasic sleeping in the first place? How do you get your 9hrs of sleep on it? 01:54:58 (and is, as yet, not really a well-beaten track.. not a lot of research has gone into it, and noone has done it for years at a time, so who knows, maybe it's even dangerous) 01:55:10 schmrkc: you don't need your 9hrs of sleep with it 01:55:24 billitch: It doesn't have to be depth-first... 01:55:24 schmrkc: and you feel more awake and energetic all day long 01:55:48 sytse: i'm not polyphasic but <20 naps are a huge boost in productivity when lacking sleep, at least for me 01:55:54 <20min 01:55:55 that's kinda the point.. with polyphasic sleeping you need *DRASTICALLY* less sleep 01:56:30 I wouldn't dare fucking with my body like this. 01:56:31 billitch: I don't know how to fall asleep quickly during the day 01:56:56 sytse: How does this work with not needing the same amount of sleep? I have been informed that sleep is when the body recovers and a good amount of it is needed for mass and strenght gains. 01:57:00 sytse: whenever you start to feel tired, yawn, etc 01:57:22 set the most outrageous alarm at m+20 01:57:23 -!- kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:57:25 schmrkc: well, most of your sleeping time is actually wasted 01:57:32 sytse: Why? 01:57:42 but the scientific theory about it is.. very very limited afaik 01:57:44 I am very interested in my sleep. 01:57:51 so probably no-one really knows 01:57:56 when you wake up, have smth to eat ;) 01:58:12 I have seen much studies on builders trying to go with 5-6 hrs and they see massively worse results than 8-10hrs of sleep 01:58:24 so I'm interested why polyphasic would change this 01:58:50 sleep deprivation is ok as long as you dont get sick or have physical activity, then you need much more rest 01:59:07 (which isn't too surprising.. they only just found out what kind of process causes alzheimer, and think about how mindbogglingly much money went into research on alzheimer.. it's not that easy to figure out exactly how the body and the brain work) 01:59:53 schmrkc: you'd have to search the net for some partial answers, but I don't think anyone really knows why 01:59:55 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:00:05 ok 02:00:11 I'll just avoid it for now. :) 02:00:19 there's been much noise about it on the blogothing but also interesting information... 02:00:27 gonna stick with my 9hrs + 45 minute nap :) 02:00:35 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 02:01:01 schmrkc: but the results with polyphasic sleep are apparently actually better than with 8-10hrs of normal sleep. In the short term (less than a year) at least. No good double-blind trials have been performed at all though :( 02:01:04 there was some guy on the radio a while back. he said he went with 2hrs / day. maybe he was on this stuff. 02:01:18 sytse: results on what? 02:01:54 I've only read from people who do brain work as a daily living 02:01:56 the whole point of napping is to reduce melatonin levels which numbs your body and mind, so it's no wonder 02:02:03 so, on how well your brain works :P 02:02:11 interesting 02:02:20 half my work is brain work. so that would be good. 02:02:28 <_3b> does it help you stay on topic? 02:02:35 But it strikes me as wrong on the more important aspects of life :) 02:02:37 hehehe 02:03:04 Polyphasic sleep seems like a good way to maximize lisp time. 02:03:04 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 02:03:11 schmrkc: one of the interesting points though, is that you get into a very, very strict sleeping schedule.. x hours after your last nap, you start to feel *incredibly* tired, and really need to take your next nap 02:03:28 sytse: yes. I have that. 02:03:30 but you'll wake up shortly thereafter 02:03:57 feeling fresh and awake instantly 02:04:00 ya. 45 minutes later I waker up ;) 02:04:42 fresh because in less than 20min your body has not started producing melatonin 02:04:56 I am typically awake for 24hours and sleep like 8 02:05:56 melatonin sounds like good stuff 02:06:14 Maybe you can discuss it on #lispzzz. 02:06:55 hahaha 02:08:07 about sbcl, what is wrong with floating point exceptions on OpenBSD ? 02:08:13 *sytse* is typically awake about 2 hours every day 02:08:19 from 13:30 to 15:30 02:08:26 the rest of the day I feel like I'm sleeping ;-) 02:08:30 *billitch* has actually joined #lispzzz 02:08:36 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 02:09:20 I think stress (lots of stress) combined with lack of exercise must be the reason 02:09:36 sytse: billitch is waiting for you in the right place. 02:09:46 -!- coyo [~tama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:09:49 Xach: :P 02:09:58 sytse: Do yourself a big favour and order a copy of the book Spark! How exercise improves the performance of your brain 02:10:02 and now I shut up :) 02:10:07 *sytse* 2 02:10:26 20 minutes (hopefully) more work and I'm off to bed (it's 04:10 here now) 02:15:30 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.61.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:16:10 -!- TomJ [~tomj@89.241.155.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:08 -!- ephcon_ [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:19:08 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:19:20 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-92-153-145.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:19:35 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.61.160] has joined #lisp 02:19:58 every third day is like up at 10. perfectly aligned 02:20:17 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-9-206.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:20:53 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:58 ephcon_ [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:37 for F in "mv a b" "mv b c" "mv c a";do $F; sleep 5;done :-) 02:24:52 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:14 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:06 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:29:03 -!- ephcon_ [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:29:04 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:29:30 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:09 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:30:26 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:17 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:200c:321b:b85b:157c] has joined #lisp 02:34:00 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:35:03 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-89-168.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:43:01 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:14 -!- kelsin [~kelsin@www.dreaminginlyrics.com] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 02:45:30 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:45:57 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:02 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:16 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 02:48:15 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:58 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:51:18 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:57:54 benny [~benny@i577A7205.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 02:58:07 oh and files.html:\t.\n\tls |sed 's,.*,&,' > files.html 03:00:09 it's perfect. take care 03:00:15 -!- drake1 [~mandrake@0xbcb09787.ngnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has left #lisp 03:00:53 -!- dreish [~dreish@2002:cf8a:2fad:0:21f:5bff:fe35:ae0d] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:02:44 symbole_ [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:54 spradnyesh [~pradyus@115.240.28.178] has joined #lisp 03:08:31 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@115.240.28.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:09:08 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tjldnsmzwfrrcvna] has joined #lisp 03:09:57 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has joined #lisp 03:11:56 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:12:49 Good morning everyone! 03:18:44 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:57 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has joined #lisp 03:22:12 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:24:46 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:15 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:26:37 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:27:24 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:31 good morning~ 03:30:27 77CABAEKK [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:27 20QAB3PZI [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:38 -!- 20QAB3PZI [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:33:03 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925385290.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:33:28 -!- 77CABAEKK [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:40:59 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:41:48 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:45:10 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925385290.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:46:32 echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 03:46:55 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:41 -!- echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:55 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:56:18 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:56:21 echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 04:02:08 rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:02:08 -!- rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 04:02:08 rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 04:05:09 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:58 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:05:58 -!- rich_holygoat_ is now known as rich_holygoat 04:07:22 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:16 hey guys anyone read the recent articles on reddit regarding picolisp? whaddaya think of it? 04:29:42 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:57 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 04:43:50 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:46:50 maturin [~evan@cpe-98-149-134-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:50:31 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:45 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:38 -!- maturin [~evan@cpe-98-149-134-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:53:24 maturin [~user@cpe-98-149-134-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:53:33 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.61.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:53:45 -!- maturin [~user@cpe-98-149-134-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:09 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.149.220] has joined #lisp 04:57:16 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 04:57:33 askatasuna: What did you think yourself? 04:58:43 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tjldnsmzwfrrcvna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:01:01 i think i like picolisp and will give it a try, but am afraid of having to reinvent lots of things 05:05:35 askatasuna: When I was still into Scheme, I tried many implementations, became dependent on the (inevitable) implementation-specific extensions, then had to give it up because it was no longer maintained. I finally did the right thing and started with CL instead. A different dialect defined by a single implementation seems like a giant step backward to me. 05:09:34 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-118-38.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 05:13:55 beach: i see exactly what you are saying 05:17:45 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:17:48 -!- kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:20:55 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-celnfcxsnzjaqrbv] has joined #lisp 05:21:29 tij_ [~tij@c-67-190-5-189.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:57 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rtizyfrlgaoxurub] has joined #lisp 05:23:02 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:24:07 -!- tij_ [~tij@c-67-190-5-189.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:24:58 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 05:29:03 good morning everyone 05:30:18 -!- echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:35:01 echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 05:38:01 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:39:28 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 05:39:51 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 05:50:48 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 05:52:50 -!- hc_e [~hc@pdpc/supporter/active/hc-e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:25 hello sytse 05:59:57 jsoft [~jsoft@60.234.231.122] has joined #lisp 06:00:39 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@60.234.231.122] has quit [Changing host] 06:00:39 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:03:38 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:05:09 hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-117-136.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:29 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 06:15:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:19:15 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 06:21:27 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-78.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:21:32 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-78.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:23:45 fiveop [~fiveop@p5B28362B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:06 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 06:44:27 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:45:05 -!- atomx [~user@92.80.115.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:46:17 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 06:48:21 wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 06:48:23 TomJ [~tomj@89.241.155.73] has joined #lisp 06:48:37 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:52:42 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-24-157.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53:31 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:54:58 -!- Krystof [~csr21@78.146.236.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:55:00 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-18-18.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 06:57:08 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:58:29 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:00:40 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:02:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:58 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:05:58 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 07:05:58 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 07:07:45 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:09:30 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-140-150.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 07:13:55 Good morning everyone! 07:15:48 morning 07:16:22 question: Is there an easy way to execute lisp without emacs+SLIME? I'm in Ubuntu... 07:16:38 Sure, but why would you want to do that? 07:17:04 mostly because I already know my way around VIM 07:17:22 Take this opportunity to learn something new. 07:17:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:17:41 ha 07:17:50 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:18:00 that wasn't really an answer to my question 07:18:10 good morning 07:18:15 PCChris: The answer is "yes". 07:18:16 hello mvilleneuve 07:18:57 spiaggia: And what would be the process to do that, please? 07:19:06 mvilleneuve: morning 07:19:10 PCChris: just run the lisp of your choice in a terminal ? 07:19:10 PCChris: sbcl, and then type away. 07:21:54 ohih0wru [~ohih0wru@80.233.141.30] has joined #lisp 07:22:54 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-114.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 07:23:30 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-114.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 07:23:32 PCChris: You might want to read these pages: http://www.cliki.net/Linedit and http://www.cliki.net/vim 07:25:04 spiaggia: Thanks...I see there is a load command in clisp to load a lisp file...but when I do this with a hello world file (I'm starting out following a lisp tutorial) it only says ";; Loading file hello-world.lisp ... ;; Loaded file hello-world.lisp T" 07:25:20 and then "T" 07:25:34 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-64-102.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:04 aerique, PCChris: For vim, that page is out of date. 07:26:13 sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.105] has joined #lisp 07:26:23 limp used to be ok, but is no longer maintained 07:26:37 the current plugin of choice for editing lisp in vim is slimv 07:26:41 PCChris: load is a Common Lisp function, not a CLISP command. 07:26:47 OliverUv: thanks 07:27:12 i'll update the page 07:27:26 PCChris: That means the file loaded normally. 07:27:37 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-114.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 07:27:49 spiaggia: How do I get the output to display? 07:28:19 PCChris: Well, presumably you must call some function that produces the output. 07:28:37 spiaggia: Yeah, I just realized that. Thank you. 07:30:52 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:33:29 plage [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 07:35:18 ok so I added information about slimv to http://www.cliki.net/vim 07:35:36 you might need to ctrl+f5 to get the new version of the page 07:38:40 OliverUv: cool, thank you 07:39:58 np 07:40:01 :) 07:40:53 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-64-102.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:42:19 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:46:04 -!- symbole_ [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:48:14 PCChris: What tutorial are you using? 07:48:50 practical common lisp 07:48:51 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book 07:48:58 OK. 07:49:10 PCChris: good choice 07:49:57 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 07:50:05 schmrkc: you might want to look at Poplog. 07:52:12 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:55:08 brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 07:57:50 Does anybody actively support or use the cl-mpi library? 08:03:52 Does it exist?? 08:05:59 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 08:13:03 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:15:45 It seems so: http://code.google.com/p/cl-mpi/ 08:15:57 But nobody did anything to it for more than a year 08:20:19 that doesn't always mean much 08:22:28 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-64-102.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:38 Might already be perfect. :) 08:22:40 Blkt [~user@93-33-130-201.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:23:34 I may need to add support for ecl, and fix some places I think are fishy (like checking for simple-array and then always expecting a vector) 08:24:48 Also, didn't anybody think of a better way of configuring stuff like C library paths than an ad-hoc lisp file that must be edited before compiling the system? 08:28:56 Sounds like a job for a concerned citizen. 08:29:17 angavrilov: (1) assume things are installed and where dlopen() will find them (2) explicit paths to load-shared-object 08:29:18 -!- SegFault|Laptop [~SegFaultA@c-98-210-3-1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:29:36 i think those are the two most common solutions 08:30:02 MPI is somewhat special in that it is installed all over the place, and often multiple implementations at the same time. 08:30:04 (2) works fine with asdf also compiling your .c files 08:30:09 ah 08:31:01 sbcl at least can load foreign definitions fine without having the .so -- it is needed only when you try to actually access a foreign function or variable 08:31:13 There are some conventions for C compilation that work by tweaking the shell environment to make the right version of mpicc to show up in the path. 08:31:22 so you could have a runtime call (load-mpi-library my-path) 08:33:09 Perhaps it could look at the environment by default, and require editing only if the setup is unconventional... 08:34:53 -!- nipra_ [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:35:26 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 08:36:47 But there sure is a general gap here. The implementation itself can be easily configured via init files, but it obviously doesn't work with systems that are optionally loaded afterwards. 08:38:01 Some basic boolean flags might be passed through features - but that does not extend to more involved options like paths... 08:39:15 fiveop_ [~fiveop@p5B2861FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:41:54 adu_ [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-25.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:03 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:43:08 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5B28362B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:43:46 hlavaty [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:44:40 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 08:45:57 sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.105] has joined #lisp 08:46:40 -!- plage [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has left #lisp 08:49:22 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-180-201-14.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:48 maus [~maus@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:05 Good morning! :) 08:52:18 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-205-76.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:54:43 vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:55 hello maus 08:55:09 hello spiaggia 08:55:17 hey vng 08:55:24 hello spiaggia :) 08:55:58 -!- adu_ [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-25.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:56:01 spiaggia: how are you doing?! 08:56:08 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.7.146] has joined #lisp 08:57:34 maus: Fine, thanks. I think I found the problem in VM (an Emacs subsystem for reading and writing email) that generated the wrong coding system when I reply to an email with Vietnamese characters. The message became totally unreadable. 08:58:17 pcase? 08:58:52 H4ns [~hans@p579FBF3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:12 what do you mean by that? 08:59:51 spiaggia: oops.. 09:00:29 spiaggia: you find the reason why yet?! 09:01:27 I think so, but I am not sure how to fix it. 09:02:53 spiaggia: I hope you can fix it soon :) 09:02:58 SCVirus [~B234651@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:42 etenil [~etenil@82.45.133.100] has joined #lisp 09:04:03 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:45 maus: Thanks! 09:06:19 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:20 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:21 cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has joined #lisp 09:10:43 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:11:34 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 09:11:34 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:12:56 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rtizyfrlgaoxurub] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:15:58 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:16:19 -!- tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:200c:321b:b85b:157c] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:16:38 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-114.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:16:42 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-80-17.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:17:00 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:17:54 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:18:16 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 09:20:01 cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has joined #lisp 09:20:20 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-140-150.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:20:50 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has quit [Client Quit] 09:22:19 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:22:35 lat [~user@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:24:03 is there a lisp function to convert rtf files to utf8? 09:24:04 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AC9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:47 lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:27:11 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75681c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:51 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:31:56 lat_: you have rtf files in one encoding and you want to produce rtf files in another? 09:32:19 (is that what you're asking? the original question doesn't make much sense to me...) 09:33:27 maybe rtf has special codes for certain characters that can be represented in utf8, such as ä in html 09:33:37 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 09:34:07 antifuchs: The files are in rtf, and I want to convert them to utf8 encoding. 09:34:10 -!- fiveop_ [~fiveop@p5B2861FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 09:36:37 yeah. I don't get it. what does that mean? 09:36:47 -!- wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:37:12 wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 09:37:12 is it what daniel_ said, that rft has special sequences for some characters? 09:38:00 antifuchs: rich text format to unicode. 09:38:07 heh 09:38:12 lat: that does not make sense 09:38:22 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:38:36 it's like converting a blue sheet of paper to a boat engine 09:38:41 totally unrelated 09:38:59 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 09:39:15 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.109.186] has joined #lisp 09:39:44 rtf specifies colors, tables, margins, etc. utf8 specifies none of these 09:40:36 daniel_: Ok, the files are in rich text format, but I need to convert them so that that they can be read with a unicode font. The 09:41:23 now you'r adding fonts, too, which are *even more* unrelated. 09:41:33 +e 09:41:54 lat: Do you mean extract the textual contents as a stream of UTF-8 bytes? 09:42:17 antiword might be able to do this 09:42:36 There are no colors, tables, margins, etc., involved. 09:42:59 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:12 it's the fault of the application displaying the rtf contents for not using an appropriate font 09:44:09 -!- wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:44:23 spiaggia: yes 09:44:37 lat: is this about autolisp by any chance? 09:44:45 wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 09:45:18 jdz: no 09:45:45 Hold for a moment while I check something ... 09:45:56 lat: ok, holding my breath 09:46:01 lat: be quick please 09:49:15 lat: I would not have used the word "convert" for that. 09:51:34 -!- brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: brandlee] 09:51:44 -!- wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:54:44 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 09:54:49 I want this text "Bi,bloj gene,sewj VIhsou/ Cristou/( ui`ou/ Dabi.d( ui`ou/ VAbraa,mÅ" to display with with Greek characters when view with a unicode font. 09:55:14 view = viewed 09:55:35 lat: which letters should be greek? 09:56:04 jdz: All of them. 09:56:46 lat: what encoding is your file in? 09:57:42 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 09:58:35 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Client Quit] 09:59:04 jdz: I don't know. But the first line of the file is: {\rtf1\adeflang1037\fbidis\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fcharset0 Arial;}{\f1\fnil Bwgrkl;}{\f2\fnil Bwhebb;}{\f3\fnil Bwtransh;}{\f4\fnil Times New Roman Cyr;}{\f5\fnil Bwviet;}{\f6\fnil Times New Roman CE;}}\pard\plain\fs20 10:00:09 well, probably your file is in winblows cp1252, which is not greek at all 10:01:03 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 10:01:14 lat: but you could probably try opening the file with greek single-byte encoding (whichever it is), then write the file using utf-8 10:01:25 lat: try if iconv can do what you want 10:02:04 jdz: ok. thanks. 10:02:15 lat: according to wikipedia, it could be cp1253 10:02:41 iso-8859-7 could also work 10:02:49 -!- lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:03:31 or vim 10:04:01 longkid [~longkid@115.78.100.4] has joined #lisp 10:04:20 lat: but anyway note that this conversion has nothing to do with RTF 10:04:20 hello longkid :) 10:04:22 hello 10:04:29 maus: how are you? 10:04:34 lat: nor fonts 10:04:59 longkid: I'm fine. Thank you. And how about yourself? :) 10:05:16 hey longkid 10:05:17 maus: Me too. How's about your work at Paris? 10:05:17 longkid: haven't seen you for long time? 10:05:36 vng: Yes, long time no see. 10:05:43 longkid: Thanks. It's going fine. :) 10:06:00 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 10:06:15 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 10:06:19 spiaggia: hello 10:06:24 jdz: thanks for making me aware of those facts. 10:06:45 brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 10:07:20 spiaggia: Mr Khiem is asking me to give him some source code to read. I think that the source code of sudoku is not so difficult to understand. So I'll give it to him. 10:08:03 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:15 longkid: Sure, that's fine. 10:08:27 -!- brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 10:08:46 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Client Quit] 10:09:24 spiaggia: I want to read some source code, but I don't know which is suitable with me. Do you have any suggestion? 10:09:25 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-37.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 10:09:45 azathoth99 [~g@pool-173-60-208-79.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:07 longkid: What type of code? Application? GUI? Compiler? Mathematics? 10:10:24 how can I have a lisp on box1 query data on a lisp on box2? and possibly build a database distributed accross 100 boxes? 10:10:53 like how share info between lisp images on different boxes, as well as functions n symbols? 10:10:56 spiaggia: I want to read some code on GUI and Maths. 10:11:54 longkid: If CLIM will do for GUI, then there are plenty of examples in the McCLIM distribution. There is also Gsharp. 10:12:43 longkid: Maxima is a huge program for symbolic math. I don't know how good the code is though. 10:12:53 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:13:57 spiaggia: The source code of those ones is uploaded at cl.net. Right? 10:15:54 longkid: For McCLIM and Gsharp, definitely! Don't know about Maxima. 10:17:46 spiaggia: OK. I'll download and try to read something about GUI. 10:20:42 azathoth99: you can use networking to do that. there are several ways to serialize and deserialize data. 10:23:24 nice 10:23:39 anything like hypertable.org ? I see cl-mpi 10:23:44 I heard mpi is FAST 10:23:50 *Xach* has no idea, sorry 10:24:15 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:17 antifuchs: I can't believe I haven't taken the time to do this yet, considering I've been working with allegro now for about 4 weeks 10:24:37 but do you know a good resource for learning how to use breakpoints and stepping in allegro cl_ 10:24:40 ? 10:25:02 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:26:26 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:49 onewhoseeks62 [~bob@c-68-53-235-170.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:00 Good morning 10:32:00 urandom__ [~user@p548A4544.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:42 OliverUv: using (break) should get you a break point in any code you want. for stepping... let me look it up 10:33:30 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-37.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 10:33:47 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-37.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 10:34:15 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-37.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 10:34:19 OliverUv: if you're using the IDE, try http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/current/doc/ide-menus-and-dialogs/stepper-dialog.htm 10:34:44 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-37.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 10:34:52 in slime, you can use "s" to step, I'm not sure how well it works in allegro, though... (I haven't used a stepper in years) 10:35:35 kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has joined #lisp 10:35:41 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:36:02 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-92-153-145.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:30 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-37.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 10:37:56 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-37.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 10:37:58 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-37.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 10:38:08 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-37.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 10:38:08 Ibex_twin [~lars@a89-152-235-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 10:39:35 -!- Ibex_twin [~lars@a89-152-235-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:56 Ibex_twin [~lars@a89-152-235-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 10:44:16 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-80-17.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:44:53 -!- azathoth99 [~g@pool-173-60-208-79.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:12 Is anyone talking at all?...Hmmmm 10:45:37 -!- onewhoseeks62 [~bob@c-68-53-235-170.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 10:45:39 onewhoseeks62: Only when we have something to say. 10:47:39 Krystof [~csr21@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:49:14 -!- longkid [~longkid@115.78.100.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:49:17 -!- echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:50:17 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-130-201.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:53:56 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:57:48 leo2007 [~leo@222.79.181.172] has joined #lisp 10:59:29 unenana [~unenana@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 11:00:15 -!- unenana [~unenana@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 11:02:00 -!- acknopper [~acknopper@5ED303DA.cm-7-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:02:12 p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:04:30 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-37.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 11:04:38 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-37.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 11:09:08 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:10:42 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B6E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:42 are SBCL's serialisable closures usable when transmitted into another image (assuming both images start the same and all code changes are introduced into both of them)? 11:10:54 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-56-192.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:43 lat` [~user@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 11:12:37 OliverUv: note that (break) breaks the current form, so you would need (progn (break)) to really have the equivalent of a breakpoint. 11:13:47 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-37.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:14:35 -!- lat [~user@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:16:37 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-93.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 11:16:47 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-174-110.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:17:33 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:22:30 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 11:25:51 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has joined #lisp 11:28:25 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has quit [Client Quit] 11:30:20 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:31:22 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 11:32:28 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:44 thanks :) 11:41:14 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:25 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:43:27 Hello nikodemus. 11:43:38 wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 11:45:16 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 11:45:48 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:49:19 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 11:49:20 -!- p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:49:59 -!- lat` [~user@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:52 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:30 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.109.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:54:38 brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 11:54:41 -!- brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 12:02:17 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:03:41 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:04:12 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:44 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:04 nyef_ [~nyef@pool-70-20-56-192.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:33 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-56-192.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:09:36 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.109.186] has joined #lisp 12:13:26 p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:13:28 -!- nyef_ is now known as nyef 12:16:23 Is it possible to call an n-ary function with a list as the arguments? I know that (eval `(fun . ,list)) would do it, but is there a better way? 12:16:48 clhs APPLY 12:16:57 ... Specbot? 12:17:13 Damnit, specbot! 12:17:26 Borbus: (describe 'APPLY) 12:17:45 Ah right, thought there would be, thanks 12:18:08 Would apply be doing a similar thing to my eval by the way? 12:18:31 In letter or in spirit? 12:18:57 Well I mean, if I were to reqrite apply, would that be a good way to do it? 12:18:57 APPLY takes a function, some number of arguments, and a final argument which must be a list. 12:19:27 That last argument is "spread", each element becoming an additional argument. 12:19:49 So, (apply #'+ 1 '(2 3)) => 6. 12:20:29 Yeah.. I'm just asking because I know eval is often misused, but is this a good use for it (if apply didn't exist) 12:21:05 Borbus: it's the other way around: apply exists so that you don't have to use eval 12:21:28 Not even that: APPLY was -invented- so that EVAL could be written in the first place. 12:21:54 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.146.42] has joined #lisp 12:22:41 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 12:24:39 LiamH [~healy@129-2-130-108.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:24:51 well yes, apply is one of the basic building blocks of LISP 12:25:21 gemelen_ [~shelta@shpd-92-101-157-172.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:25:33 but i have lost the original McCarthy's paper... 12:25:40 will have to download it fast 12:25:59 Isn't there a copy in the LISP 1.5 manual? 12:26:32 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-174-110.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:26:35 nyef: i'm not sure i have that one, either 12:27:39 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 12:28:35 I have Resursive Functions of Symbolic Expressions ... part 1 12:28:49 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-130-108.wireless.umd.edu] has left #lisp 12:29:00 Borbus: i just downloaded it, and it does not seem to be the right one 12:29:20 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-93.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:29:36 I seem to remember being unable to find a part 2 12:29:59 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:48 Blkt [~user@93-33-143-16.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:30:54 LiamH [~healy@129-2-130-108.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:31:28 hmm, or maybe it is the right one after all 12:36:44 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-87-127.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:49 timor [~timor@port-92-195-126-64.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:42:48 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-37.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 12:45:38 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:49:03 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:50:28 Hmm. cmucl 20a and later allow read-byte to work on character streams. I wonder why that was done. 12:50:57 -!- p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:53:59 -!- prip [~foo@host36-126-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:54:12 hmm, seems that glossary entry of "binary" allows to treat a character file as binary... 12:54:12 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:20 p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:54:50 (if cmucl pretends to not be able to tell if the stream is character or binary stream :) 12:55:37 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 12:55:38 but anyway, working with HTTP without bivalent streams is a pain 12:56:00 (unnecessary at that) 12:56:13 <_8david> rtoym: in which ways is that different from how bivalence is done by other lisps? 12:58:10 _8david: Probably none. I just don't remember why it was done and why it happened in 20a. I think in earlier releases you could have binary-text-streams, but you had to create them on purpose. 12:59:06 <_8david> as jdz says, the whole stream bivalence thing is this rather hip Lisp modernization idea from the 90s which application authors take for granted these days and which implementations other than allegro still aren't very good at making easy and fast for users apparently 12:59:40 <_8david> In that sense, just being able to read bytes from that character stream sounds like a positively nice thing from a user perspective. 13:00:29 Are they bivalent by default in other lisps? I tried with ccl and clisp. read-byte signals an error on character streams. 13:00:50 s/clisp./clisp and/ 13:00:51 <_8david> not by default, no. Only allegro is sensible enough to do that. 13:00:58 <_8david> (AFAIK) 13:01:27 Heh. For whatever reason, cmucl does that by default now too. Accidentally, as far as I can tell. :-) 13:01:35 allegro has the "simple streams" for that, no? 13:03:00 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:03:09 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 13:03:50 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:06:27 billyidol2 [~rune@proxy-gw2.uib.no] has joined #lisp 13:07:28 pjb` [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:01 -!- pjb` is now known as ogamita 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:40 tfb [~tfb@92.41.187.48.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 13:13:28 Can anyone think of an algorithm to convert a binary tree represented as ([ROOT] ([LC]) ([RC]) such that every node in the tree has a unique number representing where it should be in the tree. F.ex: (A (K (E) (S)) (T (T) (G)) -> ((4 (2 (1) (3)) (5 (6) (7)))? 13:15:49 sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.81.37] has joined #lisp 13:17:43 <_3b> either walk the tree incrementing a counter, or lc=parent*2, rc=parent*2+1 ? 13:17:44 Looks trivial. 13:19:01 _3b: The latter assumes a balanced, fully populated tree, surely? 13:19:25 <_3b> Zhivago: no, intent is that indices would match a fully populated tree though 13:19:29 -!- wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:19:56 I meant (A (K (E) (S)) (T (T) (G)) -> ((4 (2 (1) (3)) (6 (5) (7))) 13:19:58 obv 13:20:12 billy: Do you know how to walk the tree in that order? 13:20:52 And where did the extra parentheses around the result come from? 13:22:16 ahh. sbcl 1.0.43 is released. 13:22:24 sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has joined #lisp 13:22:42 I should say that it's in java and I have an String that looks like "A(K(E)(S))(T(T)(G))" that needs to be made into the binary tree it represents.. I'm sorry if it's terribly rude to ask here.. just wanted to know if there was a typical standard algorithm for doing this 13:23:10 <_3b> why do you want the numbers then? 13:24:05 <_3b> if you just need to build a tree, do that 13:24:06 because the binary tree is sorted by an integer, not by the value of the character 13:24:33 *_3b* is confused, where did sorting come in? 13:24:37 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-130-108.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:25:14 billy: I suggest that you sit down and think about how to express this problem in an intelligent fashion. 13:25:18 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25:32 billy: At the moment you appear to be babbling incoherently. :) 13:25:35 ok, sry, you're right.. I'll do some more thinking ;) 13:25:43 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:15 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:16 <_3b> if you just need to read a tree, simple recursive function should work... read root, then call read tree function for each of left and right 13:26:16 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:56 -!- spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:11 <_3b> the numbers you listed look like a simple depth-first traversal, so that + a counter makes those numbers for that tree 13:27:48 <_3b> they don't say where the node 'should be' in the tree though, unless you constrain the tree shape 13:28:45 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-140-150.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 13:28:58 brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 13:30:48 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 13:30:48 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 13:30:48 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 13:35:05 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-140-150.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:43 prip [~foo@host36-126-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:37:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.79.181.172] has left #lisp 13:37:44 sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:39:38 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:39:42 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06f04b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:44 Hello! 13:40:07 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441568.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 13:41:46 KB [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:42:33 -!- brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:36 Hello! 13:42:54 brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 13:43:21 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-209-154.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:43:39 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:44:11 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:08 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-36-82-251-3-33.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:45:17 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-126-64.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:47:50 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-37.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:50:00 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:23 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:51:47 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:53:37 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-220-114.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:53:38 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-220-114.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:53:57 hey 13:53:59 -!- p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:56:26 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:56:37 billyidol2: tree walking basically you do: (defun walk (node) (unless (null node) (walk (left node)) (walk (right node)))) 13:57:16 billyidol2: now, basically you have three places where to put any processing: (defun .... [1] (walk (left node)) [2] (walk (right node)) [3]) 13:57:36 Depending on where you put your processing, you get a prefix, infix or suffix 'walk'. 13:57:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:58:08 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:23 timor [~timor@port-92-195-77-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:58:59 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-41-205.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:13 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.193] has joined #lisp 14:00:18 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 14:00:37 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-209-154.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:01:09 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-157-172.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:01:57 claint [~user@212.154.81.178] has joined #lisp 14:05:46 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:58 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:08:57 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:09:49 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:13:10 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:14:18 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-66-209.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:15:37 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-77-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:16:43 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:17:43 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:19:07 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:50 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-64-102.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:20:15 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:08 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:16 -!- claint [~user@212.154.81.178] has left #lisp 14:22:48 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 14:24:26 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.187.48.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:25:41 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 14:27:35 navigator [~navigator@p54897915.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:33 timor [~timor@port-92-195-17-233.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:31:04 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-66-209.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:38:58 macroexpand should work recursively right? running macroexpand '(tst :my-item) should thus never return something like (progn (foo) (tst "bar")), right? 14:40:13 Umm. Not quite. 14:40:22 yay! where am I wrong? 14:40:35 Macroexpand works recursively -on the overall form-. It doesn't walk the form and expand macros not at the toplevel. 14:40:47 ah right 14:41:08 is there a way to see how that would result in code that only contains functions? Or is that something a code-walker should do? 14:41:10 (For that, you need a code-walker. You might try looking for "macroexpand-all", as well, it may do the trick.) 14:42:00 nyef: where do I find macroexpand-all? 14:42:23 google? 14:42:29 p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:42:48 Assuming, that is, that it's not already in your system and findable via APROPOS. 14:43:23 nyef: seems to be in a bunch of packages already :D thanks! 14:43:39 Don't know if it actually does what you want, though. 14:44:40 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-144-59.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:44:57 nyef: it tells me what I need to know 14:44:57 thanks 14:45:00 I was getting scared 14:46:08 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-celnfcxsnzjaqrbv] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:47:14 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-17-233.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:47:47 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75681c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:53 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:52:06 gz [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:c2ff:fe0f:2d89] has joined #lisp 14:53:43 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:55:18 wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 14:56:50 cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has joined #lisp 14:58:25 I think swank includes macroexpand-all 14:58:26 Fade, memo from fusss: your deepsky account is deadski. donde esta the mel-base patch? 14:58:43 *Fade* scratches his head 15:00:02 timor [~timor@port-92-195-188-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:00:14 Fade: sbcl does too, apparently (I guess they do the same thing) 15:00:28 Fade: ah, you meant as an interactive function? 15:00:53 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:01:26 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-144-59.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:03:59 madnificent: yes 15:04:07 -!- brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: brandlee] 15:05:29 wht's the call signature for minion's memo feature? 15:06:00 Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan1002.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 15:07:19 got it 15:07:49 minion: memo for fusss: http://www.deepsky.com/~fade/mel-base 15:07:49 Remembered. I'll tell fusss when he/she/it next speaks. 15:08:41 -!- gz [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:c2ff:fe0f:2d89] has left #lisp 15:13:36 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-119-23.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:35 brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 15:15:22 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 15:16:00 -!- Wombatzus [~user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:16:06 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-188-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:20:01 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:24:58 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:26:27 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:27:14 where I can find a clsql package which I can install in a linux(Fedora) box ? (I am very new to lisp) 15:27:26 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-181-145.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:27:53 http://files.b9.com/clsql/clsql-latest.tar.gz is giving404 , also it seems the rest of the site is gone, no docs etc 15:28:15 minion: tell kushal about cliki 15:28:16 kushal: please see cliki: CLiki is a free collaborative hypertext authoring program, written in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cliki 15:28:26 sellout: That won't necessarily help if b9 is offline... 15:28:30 (which it seems to be) 15:28:40 Xach: Was just about to explain that bi. 15:28:41 t 15:28:52 sellout, I first read there only http://www.cliki.net/CLSQL 15:29:04 But I didn't know if b9 was the main place for clsql. 15:29:05 if only someone had a project that snapshots of lisp libraries and made them easily downloadable with a single command! 15:29:09 'tis 15:30:20 kushal: would you like to try quicklisp? it's designed to make it easy to install lisp libraries, and clsql is part of it. (it's still non-public pre-pre-pre-alpha, but it works ok, mostly) 15:30:37 Xach, let me try 15:30:42 timor [~timor@port-92-195-12-61.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:30:46 kushal: hop in #quicklisp and i can help you get started 15:30:52 *sellout* would subtract a few "pre-"s there ;) 15:31:04 Xach: i've heard there's a guy secretly making a tool called "instalisp" or "lispnow" or somesuch in the undergrounds; try searching google :) 15:31:50 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 15:32:06 i'd say quicklisp is better than beta. 15:32:07 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-119-23.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:32:25 -!- wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:32:32 *Xach* hopes to have something for public consumption around ILC 15:32:43 -!- etenil [~etenil@82.45.133.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:32:45 jdz: no luck 15:33:02 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B3275A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:08 rtoym: What was cmucl.org before it was cmucl's website? 15:34:41 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 15:35:14 -!- ogamita [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:35:52 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has left #lisp 15:35:58 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B327E30.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:41:04 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:41:08 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: bye] 15:41:27 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WILL TROLL FOR FOOD] 15:41:41 hansel [TThE3A1p@dslb-092-077-028-181.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:02 -!- hansel [TThE3A1p@dslb-092-077-028-181.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 15:44:39 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-254-217.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:45:30 -!- brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:45:32 Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:46:01 -!- Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan1002.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:46:01 *attila_lendvai* is much happier with asdf2 than he used to be with asdf 15:46:14 attila_lendvai: so *you're* the one. 15:46:33 Xach: which one? 15:46:44 ahh, i got it 15:46:49 brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 15:47:02 the only one. 15:47:10 heh 15:47:12 Xach, so which book I start reading with ? 15:47:18 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-12-61.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:47:25 kushal: Practical Common Lisp is very nice, and Paradigms of AI Programming too 15:47:35 read PCL first 15:47:50 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:52 I've heard people recommend Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation 15:47:52 PAIP is a deeper text although its lisp focus is incidental. 15:47:55 i have not read it 15:48:11 It's not incidental at all. It's a tutorial on Common Lisp. 15:48:19 An aggressive one, but the AI is incidental. 15:48:20 dunno, but to me asdf2 is much more friendly when it comes to building images with scripts, etc. i'm just adding --slime-directory to our build system and set up a single-click switch between our slime branch and the official 15:48:29 well, norvig states that the book is about AI programming. :) 15:48:34 as opposed to lisp 15:48:34 I personally recommend "Gentle Introduction" for newbies to programming, while PCL is more towards people who already have used other languages for significant amount of time 15:48:37 That was a trick. 15:48:50 *Fade* chuckles 15:49:10 Fade: It's about programming, first and foremost. Then it's about Lisp programming, but that's secondary. Then it's about AI programming, as a distant third. 15:49:30 I was only parroting the author's description of same. ;) 15:49:34 Yes, his real goal was to bind the idea of Lisp to AI so that when the "winter" came, it would drag lisp down and allow Norvig to push Python to victory. 15:50:31 I'm not a master lisper nor a master programmer, but I found the SICP-PCL combo to be very, very enlightening 15:50:32 he is crafty. 15:51:11 but I was totally new to lambda 15:51:57 by any chance any one is having a PDF for PCL handy , the Apress link is not working for me 15:52:14 www.gigamonkey.com/book 15:52:18 kushal: I don't think there is one available any more. 15:52:33 gonzojive [~red@171.66.91.137] has joined #lisp 15:52:34 no 15:52:35 also www.gigamonkey.com/lispbox is helpful 15:52:36 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 15:52:41 sorry 15:52:50 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-203-9.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:06 errata corrige: www.gigamonkeys.com/lispbox 15:56:34 lispbox is probably not a good suggestion, as it's basically abandoned at this point. 15:56:46 oh man, i am building cmucl now, and got the whole process fail 2 or 3 times, and realized i was not pushing the 19d to the features in the setenv script.... 15:56:56 the work to set up a lisp with emacs/slime isn't particularly onerous. 15:57:09 but despite it the build stops eheh 15:57:12 and it's useful as an aid to understanding how the parts fit together. 15:58:17 homie: that's why sbcl was created. 15:59:54 for the first three years of my lisping, i was pretty sure that cmucl had been abandoned. :) 15:59:57 gadek [~gadek@62.121.148.46] has joined #lisp 16:00:17 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.35.7.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:19 Fade: Heh. Every so often I'm surprised that it hasn't been. 16:00:24 but i see it is actually developing... 16:00:43 there's even a 2010 version 16:00:44 timor [~timor@port-92-195-255-66.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:46 rtoym is the only cmucl user I know of, but there must be more. 16:01:05 The feature that caused me to switch from CMUCL to SBCL has long since been added to CMUCL, but I have no plans to switch back. 16:01:06 the only thing is the bloody unidata.bin not found error for 20b 16:01:09 homie: i think many people get and install the binary. 16:01:57 i installed the binary or the snapshot too, and i still have problems here, it works but loading onlisp.lisp won't work somehow... 16:03:02 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-254-217.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:03:52 -!- brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:15 brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 16:04:49 will come back from home network 16:04:56 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:08 -!- vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:06:33 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 16:06:39 hey 16:07:32 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:08:50 -!- maus [~maus@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Bye bye!] 16:09:11 compile-lisp.log is not of type system:fd-stream ? 16:09:16 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:11:30 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:11:48 ... looks like a SYMBOL? 16:14:27 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 16:14:46 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-87-229.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:16:57 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-255-66.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:42 -!- p_l|home is now known as p_l|uni 16:19:10 -!- schoppenhauer 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[~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:36:06 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:19 -!- p_l|uni_ is now known as p_l|uni 17:37:22 -!- lauanana [~lauanana@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:37:36 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.81.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:37:40 kslt1` [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 17:39:31 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:41:22 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-179-214.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:42:33 homie: Why are you missing unidata.bin? Where did you get you cmucl build. 17:43:14 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-167-163.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:43:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:32 homie: And building some recent from 19d is quite difficult. Give up before you waste more time. Unless you really want that pain. 17:44:52 s/some recent/some recent version/ 17:44:57 rtoym: i actually looked and unidata.bin is there, it is of type data, and i think somehow something screws the repl interpreter or there is something wrong in cmucl itself, such that it is not recognizing it... 17:45:04 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:04 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:45:04 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 17:45:24 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75681c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:24 ... Linux 2.6.35.7?!? What happened to .6? 17:45:27 yes, yes recent versions 2010-august 17:45:35 and the 20b-pre2 17:45:42 wbooze: Do you get an error message? What does it say? 17:45:44 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:45:52 many, no just one.... 17:46:07 What are you doing to get these messages? 17:46:33 *rtoym* was using 20b-pre2 for a while and did build maxima and other random things with it. 17:46:35 wait, i'll show you the output of the compile messages and my setenv.lisp file on a pastebin...when the compilation finishes 17:46:57 That would be great. 17:47:16 as of now i'm boostrapping sbcl from cvs with clisp 17:47:23 on another terminal 17:47:40 it seems somehow clisp deals better with unicode or so... 17:47:44 don't know 17:48:37 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:09 urandom__ [~user@p548A6D0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:12 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 17:50:22 clisp deals with unicode better than who? In what way? I'm annoyed that I have to say (make-encoding foo) when most other lisps allow me to say :latin-1. 17:50:38 wbooze: Fair warning: Don't disable :sb-unicode on anything post-1.0.36. 17:51:06 nyef: Why is that? Dropping non-unicode support? 17:51:18 so you mean, it is not enabled by default ? 17:51:40 or am i misunderstanding you ? 17:51:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 17:52:37 rtoym: It got broken in 1.0.36.15, and nobody noticed for ages. I got as far as bisecting to that version, but haven't sat down to figure out a real fix yet. 17:52:47 wbooze: Oh, it's enabled by default. 17:52:58 splittist [~John@80.169.130.126] has joined #lisp 17:53:01 morning 17:53:17 sepp2k [~sexy@p548CE256.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:29 Just don't -disable- it. 17:53:42 ok 17:54:05 Or, if you do, when you run into the build problem, disable the last clause in the typecase and try again. You'll know what I mean when it happens. 17:54:24 ppasteau [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925385290.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:54:40 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:55:24 nyef: Just drop support for 8bit builds. Problem solved. :-) But sbcl has 32-bit unicode strings right? (And 8-bit base-char strings) 17:55:31 Anarch_ [~w3@elrond.hsl.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 17:55:47 -!- Anarch_ [~w3@elrond.hsl.washington.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 17:56:07 Yeah. 17:56:27 But, the thing is, there's actually the occasional use-case for a non-unicode system. 17:57:02 What use case is that? 17:57:11 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:57:37 some number crashing machine maybe, which does not deal with characters at all or so....or extended characers i mean... 17:59:37 Faster string manipulation in environments that don't require unicode, or are willing to deal with the insanity of treating utf-8 as latin-1. 17:59:58 -!- kslt1` [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:31 kslt1` [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 18:05:02 Is it faster to deal with 8-bit characters than 32-bit? Cache, of course, is consumed faster. Cmucl only uses 16bits so that's not quite so bad. 18:06:06 And can't you already treat utf-8 as latin1, storing them in base-strings? 18:06:30 Anarch [~w3@elrond.hsl.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 18:06:46 i think it has overlapping bits... 18:07:13 wbooze: The point is that latin-1 has a character for every 8-bit code point. 18:08:39 2^8 code points ? 18:08:48 hi fe[nl]ix 18:10:16 wbooze: Yes, 256 codes. 18:12:15 timor [~timor@port-92-195-151-31.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:12:43 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-179-214.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:13:04 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.62.90.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 18:15:05 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-wghufdaulpqpeqbi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:15:43 wbooze: Any info on the error messages? 18:17:48 kdas_ [~kdas@114.143.164.64] has joined #lisp 18:18:36 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:18:40 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:31 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@114.143.164.64] has quit [Client Quit] 18:19:38 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:21:51 rtoym: it is compiling, but i'm already putting the setenv.lisp fil contents etc... on the paste, i'll provide the link here in a few minutes i think... 18:22:12 Oh, ok. Thanks. 18:22:27 What exactly are you compiling anyway? 18:23:05 cmucl cvs version 18:23:30 not crossbootstrapping 18:24:07 but i bootstrapped sbcl cvs version with clisp-2.44.1 now too... 18:24:25 Guest29498 [~Kay@119.112.71.153] has joined #lisp 18:25:00 -!- Guest29498 [~Kay@119.112.71.153] has left #lisp 18:25:53 Ok. What are you using to compile cmucl cvs? It needs to be recent and it needs to be a cross-compile, I think. 18:26:08 the first error of the cmucl compilation is the compile-lisp.log, which is in the source directory, and which is picked up somehow by the compilation process itself, don't know why ! it tells the it's not of type fd-stream... 18:28:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:29:04 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 18:30:17 redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:30:54 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:31:18 That's because the compilation script creates a log called compile-lisp.log. And while the log is being written, the structure for fd-streams is forcibly changed, screwing up existing fd-streams. I suggest selecting the clobber-it restart, assuming you're doing a cross-compile. Might work if you're not doing a cross-compile. 18:33:32 rtoym: http://pastebin.com/3mVM5jAU 18:33:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:34:46 i tried it with continue and also with return to toplevel, and it jumped to the other steps, but then there were again errors with fd-stream, and another one at least 18:35:00 wvdschel [~wim@d51A4AD41.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:35:05 What version are you using to build this? 18:35:13 And what scripts are you using to do the build. 18:35:49 src/tools/build-world.sh cmucl-latest 18:36:16 i createded a cmucl-latest directory with the src/tools/create-target.sh script 18:36:28 then changed my setenv.lisp 18:36:37 What version of cmucl are you using to build with? 18:36:40 and then compiled it with the build-world script 18:37:28 it's CMU Common Lisp Snapshot 2010-07 (20A Unicode), running on sepult 18:37:28 With core: /usr/lib/cmucl/lib/lisp-sse2.core 18:37:28 Dumped on: Thu, 2010-07-01 06:50:14+02:00 on lorien2 18:37:28 See for support information. 18:37:31 Loaded subsystems: 18:37:34 Unicode 1.8 with Unicode version 5.1.0 18:37:39 Python 1.1, target Intel x86/sse2 18:37:42 CLOS based on Gerd's PCL 2010-03-19 15:19:03 18:37:45 ups 18:38:30 2010-07 may or may not work to build cvs. And you will get a lot farther doing a cross compile. 18:38:31 i could try to build it with the stable lenny cmucl... 18:41:52 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.62.90.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 18:42:51 *rtoym* suspects stable lenny has an even older version. 18:47:34 wbooze: Do you want to know how I do the build? 18:47:52 *rtoym* goes to try it with 2010-07. 18:47:53 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-232-80.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:48:32 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:49:48 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-151-31.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:53:54 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-18-18.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:28 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 18:54:44 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 18:55:34 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:55:40 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-56-224.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:58:07 with the stable cmucl i get a reader error just at the beginning of the compilation step Reader error at 147 on #, Output = #>: 18:58:07 package "INTL" not found 18:58:07 [Condition of type LISP::READER-PACKAGE-ERROR] 18:58:26 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:33 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:47 What version is the stable lenny cmucl? It's probably even older, so it's less likely to work. 18:59:23 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.149.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:59:33 *Fare* wonders whether to release asdf 2.009. 18:59:45 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.149.220] has joined #lisp 18:59:48 Of course, the moment I do that, someone will come up with plenty more bugs. 19:00:12 ok 19:00:34 wbooze: Best bet: Get 20b-pre1, 20b-pre2, or 20b. Do a cross-compile with them. 19:00:46 jup 19:00:50 understood 19:00:56 Fare: better to just abandon it. 19:01:10 wbooze: Have you done a cross-compile before? 19:01:23 just once 19:01:46 Want to try again? :-) 19:01:52 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:59 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:03:50 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:29 wareya_ [~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:41 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:06:09 i don't know if i am still able to, i just dicoverd my old cross-compile folder now, and see the cross-compile step was broken too, the genesis part was failing somehow, but i somhow got a semi-broken cmucl then, and now maybe i should look into if i could do it better this time... 19:06:37 just not this evening i think... 19:06:53 i'm too tired to keep track of all that 19:07:16 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva] 19:07:37 -!- wareya [~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:07:52 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 19:09:05 wbooze: No problem. Starting with 20b, it's not too hard. After all, even I can do it. 19:09:28 ok 19:10:13 Just need to run 4 scripts, and select the clobber-it restart a few times, and you get cvs cmucl. 19:11:17 ah 19:11:19 heh 19:11:38 cvs cmucl only gives you Unicode 5.2.0, a bug fix, and compile-file now croaks when the file contains illegal code sequences instead of silently replacing them with replacement characters. 19:12:10 i now untarred the 20b and building the cvs version with it, i'm looking at errors but there are none as of now... 19:12:59 There should be. I changed the size of fd-stream again. 19:13:14 ok the fd-stream failure remains... 19:13:46 Ok. Step 1 and 2: src/tools/create-target.sh target; src/tools/create-target.sh cross. 19:14:27 you first build the cross one i think, then bootstrap the target with that cross 19:14:41 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:14:47 but somehow you have to copy something over from there, i remember 19:14:51 Steps 3: src/tools/cross-build-world.sh -crl darwin-target/ darwin-cross/ src/tools/cross-scripts/cross-x86-x86.lisp <20b-binary> -noinit 19:15:14 Step 3a: Choose the clobber-it restarts everytime you're asked. 19:15:27 oh 19:15:42 but i'm not gonna use darwin or ? 19:15:43 Step 4: src/tools/build.sh -b -C "config options" -o target/lisp/lisp 19:16:05 Heh. Change darwin-target to target and darwin-cross to cross. 19:16:12 ok 19:16:34 I did that just now, so I know it's working with 20b. 19:17:20 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:48 Step 4 might not be necessary, but it's a good test of the result. Just in case. 19:19:12 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.146.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:05 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d51A4AD41.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:23:20 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:23:32 that -b is my target dir when i created it just a folder with the name target not ? 19:23:40 -b target 19:25:33 to whom it may concern [the person who found the issue, probably]: the ABCL issue where you could (SET T NIL) and change the value of T (or any other constant symbol value) has been fixed on trunk. 19:25:41 timor [~timor@port-92-195-181-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:25:47 I can't remember who came up with this bug. 19:25:50 phew 19:26:15 Xach: it only worked with SET 19:26:25 SETQ/SETF were appropriately checked already. 19:26:48 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-232-80.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:27:21 ehu: what about (directory "/foo/**/baz") ? 19:27:35 Fare: unfortunately, that's not fixed yet. 19:27:39 we're working on it. 19:27:48 not exactly actively atm tho 19:27:52 I'm down with a flu 19:27:57 hampers hacking :( 19:28:21 -!- kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:28:43 Fare: but we recognize it is to be fixed to make ASDF2 work nicely; i.e. ASAP. 19:28:43 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.193] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 19:29:14 thanks! 19:29:45 ehu: great news re: T and NIL (; 19:30:46 yea. very high prio fix. 19:31:32 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.151] has joined #lisp 19:31:55 but is there a cute error message? 19:32:57 rtoym: what do you give as -C "config options" normally ? is that required ? 19:33:06 or can i just use -C "" ? 19:33:15 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:47 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.62.90.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 19:34:13 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.62.90.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 19:34:19 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.62.90.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 19:36:22 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.151] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:42 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.151] has joined #lisp 19:39:30 heh, the cross-build was successfull i think, i got a lisp image now 19:41:08 wbooze: For -C, use either -C "" for some defaults, or run "src/tools/create-target.sh" for possible values to use. 19:41:26 aah 19:41:29 Cool! Just run build.sh to do a check, and you're done! 19:41:44 jep i already am at that step 19:42:49 Ok. In a little bit, you'll get a shiny new cmucl, with its own source of new and interesting bugs. :-) 19:43:03 eheh 19:43:37 -!- kslt1` [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:03 does it run on ms-win too then ? 19:44:14 lol 19:45:07 it does now do 3 step compilation, with 3 dirs 19:45:25 wbooze: it's mostly too true to be funny. 19:45:32 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:47:36 ok but how do i install it system-wide ? 19:47:41 just copy over ? 19:47:51 or does it do that already ? 19:49:15 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.91.137] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 19:49:24 or do i use that -b target option to put it on say /usr/lib/cmucl ? when i give /usr/lib/cmucl as target to -b ? 19:50:31 There was a version of cmucl that did run on windows. I used it once. I don't have the source to that. 19:51:14 Was this Carl Shapiro's windows port? 19:51:20 ah create a tarfile! ok 19:51:22 i see 19:51:43 wbooze: src/tools/make-dist.sh will create the 2 tarballs that you can extract where you like. Or you can src/tools/make-dist.sh -I to install everything in . Add -S to install the source in /src. 19:51:48 nyef: Yes. 19:52:13 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:52:29 I guess this means that the only freely-available version of CMUCL that runs on windows is SBCL? 19:53:31 rgawron [~rgawron@inet20909nc-3s.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:54:18 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7205.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:59:23 wbooze: So, CMUCL on windows has been done twice. This means that it's possible to do it a -third- time, and you may as well volunteer to do it. :-P 20:00:51 hmmm, ok, but just another question when i use the src/tools/build-utils.sh target/ script i get an error, yet when doing the src/tools/build-sh -b target -C "" target/lisp/lisp step i see hemlock etc...were already build and compiled but they reside now in what directory target-4 ? 20:00:58 francogrex [~user@109.130.102.228] has joined #lisp 20:01:30 having a hard time understanding this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/115071 20:01:32 or do i give the same cmd-line options to the build-utils.sh script too ? 20:02:02 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-223-122.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:02:17 I mean there are so may times error is mentioned, sometimes in function, sometimes func without args, sometimes as a non-function... 20:02:43 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-181-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:03:00 the error i get with build-utils.sh is this one "Error in function (:MACRO SETF): odd number of args to SETF" 20:03:22 Error in batch processing, (during macroexpansion) 20:03:52 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:57 ok it was when compiling the asdf.lisp file 20:04:12 src/contrib/asdf/asdf.lisp 20:04:32 trying to build asdf? 20:05:08 francogrex: What's the problem? 20:05:20 build-utils.sh won't work 20:05:24 are there implementations that still come without adff, I wonder! 20:05:25 on my target folder 20:05:43 The error object you obtain clearly prints as "#". 20:05:44 nyef: problems understanding the error function 20:05:58 But... Ah. 20:06:06 You aren't -calling- the ERROR function. 20:06:31 but this: (error (error) ? 20:06:47 You have a HANDLER-CASE, which is handling conditions of type ERROR, and accepting them in a variable called ERROR. 20:06:58 shit 20:07:11 So, explanation found? 20:07:32 more or less but yeah, enlightened a lottle bit more 20:07:41 little 20:08:13 is there a deeper debug option i can pass to that step ? 20:08:18 *nyef* wonders how much "a lottle bit" is. Presumably it's somewhere between "a lot" and "a little bit"... 20:08:28 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.135.209] has joined #lisp 20:08:28 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.135.209] has quit [Changing host] 20:08:28 Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has joined #lisp 20:08:47 hah :) 20:09:00 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:26 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:27 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:10:27 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 20:10:33 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:11:51 gabnet [~gabnet@75.195.197-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:02 wbooze: you seem to be having a conversation with yourself in here, ignoring what others ask/tell you and them ignoring your monologue 20:14:43 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:14:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:14:53 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Client Quit] 20:17:10 i was talking to rtoym before, don't know if he is still here...or read what i typed... 20:18:31 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:39 ok 20:20:09 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:01 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:aa:7f56:b85b:157c] has joined #lisp 20:21:40 1.0.43.13, Linux x86-64: Failure: stream.impure.lisp / OVERAGER-CHARACTER-BUFFERING 20:21:55 what exactly is an OVERAGER, anyway? 20:22:03 an old guy? 20:22:21 overeager maybe ? 20:22:36 typo. over-eager. 20:22:49 someone who's so overeager to finish writing "overeager" that he skips one E. 20:23:53 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:24:54 target 4-to-2 all load well, just my regular target shows some errors when loading it with src/tools/load-world.sh 20:25:15 and target-4 seems to already contain hemlock and stuff.... 20:26:39 cmucl doesn't come with asdf true... 20:27:26 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 20:27:39 oh, so that's maybe common-lisp-controllers failure here, as it's always installed with lisp packages ? 20:28:09 and forcing it into cmucl maybe that way ? 20:28:33 mattrepl [~mattrepl@residents-ReservedNAT-129-174-190-4.residents.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:33:51 Steven_ [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 20:35:13 timor [~timor@port-92-195-211-253.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:35:45 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:35:45 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:35:45 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 20:35:46 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.102.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:16 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 20:36:18 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-223-122.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:19 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:24 how do I write an ftype declaration with keyword arguments? 20:37:14 (:foo string) 20:38:26 Looks like you "just" throw an &key followed by a plist of keywords and argument types on the end of the parameter type list. 20:38:55 How do I make my package stop shadowing a symbol? 20:39:10 bgs100 [~ian@h81.38.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:12 -!- bgs100 [~ian@h81.38.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:39:12 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:39:49 Borbus: you restart lisp with a new defpackage? 20:39:58 clhs unshadow 20:39:59 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for unshadow. 20:40:03 Hrm... 20:40:19 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:44 Oh. You might have to UNINTERN the symbol. 20:40:53 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:41:12 Not sure, though. Take a look in CLHS to see what it has to say. 20:41:29 uninterning it seemed to work 20:41:43 now import 20:42:03 Didn't have to do anything else, the symbol is originally in cl-user 20:42:24 CL I mean 20:43:04 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:43:09 yeah, if the package was used 20:44:24 the real solution of course is to not use packages anymore, but lexicons, or whatever is a way out of package hell 20:45:09 Hmm.. I have found packages more useful than annoying so far 20:46:19 jmbr [~jmbr@23.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:46:24 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.109.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:46:58 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.109.186] has joined #lisp 20:47:16 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.109.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:15 -!- gadek [~gadek@62.121.148.46] has left #lisp 20:50:04 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:14 -!- sepp2k [~sexy@p548CE256.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: sepp2k] 20:54:04 brown [~user@nat/google/x-qbvyaqchdpvexjzy] has joined #lisp 20:54:10 -!- brown is now known as reb 20:55:32 -!- ottergwc [~brianj@wsip-24-234-246-31.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [] 20:55:38 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:04 abezethibou [~user@213.74.106.241] has joined #lisp 20:56:24 -!- abezethibou [~user@213.74.106.241] has quit [Client Quit] 20:57:11 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:31 -!- dwilliamii [~w@72.214.103.209] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:57:32 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 20:57:48 monoman [~lars@a89-152-235-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 20:58:26 Jabberwockey [~jens@c131165.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 20:59:37 -!- monoman [~lars@a89-152-235-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 20:59:49 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:00:18 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@75.195.197-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:01:30 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-133-232.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:01:39 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:01:48 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-211-253.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:11 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:20 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:02:41 man_shakira [~obo@a89-152-235-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:02:42 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:03:26 -!- Steven_ [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:03:50 wbooze: Sorry, I stepped away for a bit. You've run the four steps. You don't need to run build-utils.sh. build.sh runs that for you, by default, so hemlock, clx, clm, and others are all built in target-4. 21:04:26 wbooze: Don't know anything about common-lisp-controller, so I can't help with that. 21:04:30 yep, i already found that out, and it's just the make-dist.sh script failing here 21:04:41 no problem 21:04:43 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:05:01 i will eventually get rid of it just to test this build here 21:05:11 i can reinstall it again...so no problem 21:05:52 What's wrong with make-dist.sh? 21:06:31 src/toos/make-dist.sh -I /usr/lib/cmucl just gives me the usage, does nothing... 21:07:10 it want's a GTAR=/bin/tar, which i provide, and even then it does nothing.... 21:07:17 just puts a usage string 21:07:29 my tar is already gnu.... 21:07:31 src/tools/make-dist.sh -h will give you some help. You need to do make-dist.sh -I 21:07:39 ah 21:08:34 Oh, becareful. make-dist.sh has it's own structure which might not fit your installation. 21:08:39 Er, be careful. 21:08:51 And its, not it's. 21:09:51 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:36 ups, it can't stat some dirs and files thereover in /usr/lib/cmucl...' 21:11:48 -!- ppasteau [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925385290.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:12:01 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925385290.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:12:17 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:12:18 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:12:34 so it did not install there.... 21:13:17 i used src/tools/make-dist.sh -I target /usr/lib/cmucl , without success.. 21:13:27 err 21:13:37 i used src/tools/make-dist.sh -I target-4 /usr/lib/cmucl , without success.. 21:13:41 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:45 wbooze: The structure from make-dist.sh is /bin/lisp, /doc/*, /man/*, /lib/cmucl/*. 21:14:12 oww, so it won't recurse automatically ?' 21:14:20 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:28 ok, got it 21:14:38 Plus, it make-dist.sh -I 21:14:47 ah 21:14:53 Er, it's. Can't type today. 21:14:56 the other way around.. 21:15:11 no problem, i'm very tired too...' 21:15:11 Use make-dist.sh -h for some help. :-) 21:15:12 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 21:15:22 i think i'll just try it once again and then go sleep...' 21:15:48 Install to a temp directory first to see how it goes. 21:15:49 i used the -h option, but the option list is not very informative... 21:16:01 -!- sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has quit [Quit: sellout] 21:16:03 at least i could not figure out, maybe i'm really tired...' 21:16:37 jep, temp-dir is better idea 21:16:50 when something goes wrong, i don't have to start from scratch' 21:17:00 Then that's a bug in make-dist.sh. I'm open to suggestions on how to make it better. (And I see -S is not correctly documented.) 21:17:08 ok 21:17:24 Er, I meant the lack of info from make-dist.sh -h. 21:17:33 jup 21:17:37 -!- rgawron [~rgawron@inet20909nc-3s.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:19:03 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:06 -!- splittist [~John@80.169.130.126] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 21:21:57 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 21:22:46 gonzojive [~red@171.66.86.145] has joined #lisp 21:25:29 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:44 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:26:48 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@c131165.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:29:05 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:24 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:31:57 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AC9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:33:38 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:13 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-143-16.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:11 Blkt [~user@93-33-143-16.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 21:39:32 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:41:00 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:41:11 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:15 jeti [~jeti@p548E9F87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:44 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:41 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-143-16.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:50:00 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51:10 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:10 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:13 wbooze: BTW, the usual cmucl distribution comes with an x87 and sse2 core. If you want to match that, you'll have to do the same 4 steps. For the cross-compile you'll need to compile using something like <20b/bin/lisp> -fpu x87. Then run build.sh with -f x87. 21:52:54 wbooze: Well, that assumes you have a machine that supports sse2. If your machine doesn't have sse2, ignore this. 21:54:04 hi, when I attempt to disconnect a socket I've created (using sb-bsd-sockets via SOCKET-CLOSE) and stop my server's sbcl process completely, the next time I run the server, I always get an ADDRESS-IN-USE error when I try to bind to a port via SOCKET-BIND. If I wait ~3 min and try again, it'll work fine. This doesn't happen if a client doesn't establish a connection. Any thoughts/direction would be great 21:55:00 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A6D0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:41 netstat doesn't show any process using that port after I've stopped the server but when I rerun it, I still get ADDRESS-IN-USE 21:55:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 21:56:11 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.109.186] has joined #lisp 21:58:24 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:58:28 egn: iirc, you want to set SSO_REUSEADDR. 21:59:10 hypno: I'll check it out, thanks 21:59:16 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:41 egn: (setf (sb-bsd-sockets:sockopt-reuse-address socket) t) is the insanely verbose way to do it 21:59:50 egn: unfortunatley, i dont have any sbcl version, but see: http://195.43.248.109/~hypno/old/les.lisp. it is for CCL. 22:00:12 Xach: hypno: excellent, thanks 22:00:54 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01:15 Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:01:37 Kaer [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:03:47 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:04:48 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:05:14 -!- KB [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:21:51 -!- jeti [~jeti@p548E9F87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 22:24:08 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:25:14 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@residents-ReservedNAT-129-174-190-4.residents.gmu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:25:25 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-181-145.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:33 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:26:23 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 22:26:23 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:49 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:53 brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 22:31:13 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:31:42 mattrepl [~mattrepl@residents-ReservedNAT-129-174-190-4.residents.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 22:34:03 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:34:32 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:43 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:09 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:40:02 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-153-145.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:42:46 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:44:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 22:44:34 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@residents-ReservedNAT-129-174-190-4.residents.gmu.edu] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 22:45:18 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:47:13 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441568.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:47:36 how do I undo an ftype declaration? 22:49:55 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:56:46 brandonz [~brandon@pool-74-103-252-153.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:17 Fare: You, ah... unintern the symbol and recreate it? 22:59:42 -!- slyrus__ [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:21 I fear. I was wondering if fmakunbound could do it. 23:00:34 I wouldn't expect so, no. 23:00:40 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:00:44 Oh, wait, generically, or on SBCL? 23:01:54 yes, either. 23:02:12 For ASDF, I already have some magic that either unintern's or fmakunbound's depending 23:02:18 on SBCL, it's unintern. 23:02:19 On SBCL, you might be able to "just" hit the globaldb directly. 23:02:28 how do I do that? 23:03:45 *Xach* had another user bitten by ASDF1->ASDF2 system object updates 23:03:57 *Xach* is tempted to clear the asdf1 loaded-systems hash table 23:03:59 :-( 23:04:02 Umm... (clear-info :function :type ) ? 23:04:17 Not sure, really, but that's what comes to mind. 23:04:23 Xach: if you describe the symptom, I could try provide a remedy. 23:04:53 For the missing source-file slot... I could try to make something up in u-i-f-r-c 23:04:59 (sucks, but oh well) 23:05:35 Xach: if you can identify which ASDF is being used (for instance, by which SBCL), that could help. 23:05:53 I'll see what I can find. 23:05:55 *Fare* should farm the sbcl.git for old versions of ASDF in the wild. 23:07:24 *Xach* also saw someone get bit by the #p"ccl:" bug 23:08:09 konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has joined #lisp 23:09:10 for "ASDF:SOURCE-FILE is unbound", the user was using sbcl 1.0.38-2.fc13 (fedora core 13's sbcl) 23:09:42 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.86.145] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 23:09:45 don't know what asdf 23:10:50 is possible that sbcl use something like readline ? 23:11:12 humasect: rlwrap? 23:11:29 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:35 something in the repl that i can go back in history and maybe even tab complete 23:12:19 humasect: rlwrap? 23:12:32 humasect: there are a couple options like rlwrap and linedit and i think hemlock.tty can do that too. but most people who care about a nice environment like that use slime, I think. 23:12:39 *p_l|uni* enjoys a CL implementation that fits into 640kB 23:13:15 ahh i see, makes sense. i will tinker around to get asdf-install working and load up some rlwrap! 23:13:45 rlwrap is not a lisp program 23:14:03 mattrepl [~mattrepl@residents-NATted-129-174-188-115.residents.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 23:14:28 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@residents-NATted-129-174-188-115.residents.gmu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 23:18:27 -!- brandonz [~brandon@pool-74-103-252-153.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:18:53 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:03 clochette [~clochette@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 23:22:37 -!- clochette [~clochette@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 23:26:20 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:27:42 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:26 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:28:41 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.75.4.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 23:29:06 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:14 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:54 gonzojive [~red@171.66.85.36] has joined #lisp 23:33:13 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-133-232.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:03 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:08 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:37:02 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:37:21 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:37:28 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:09 Xach: oh, heh 23:42:13 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.109.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:43:32 ah slime of course does the trick(s). all is well! 23:43:42 hooray 23:44:31 -!- man_shakira [~obo@a89-152-235-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: man_shakira] 23:45:54 Fare: http://paste.lisp.org/display/115081 23:51:57 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B6E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:52:17 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:37 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has joined #lisp 23:55:33 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:58:20 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:58:51 phadthai [mmondor@66.11.161.166] has joined #lisp