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[~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:21 hmmmm, slime M-. seems to work when an app if freshly loaded, but after a while it starts to throw debugger errors and not function anymore 01:18:22 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.51] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 01:19:13 and none of the core hunchentoot functions and methods seem traceable 01:20:59 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:28:55 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-106-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:29:10 dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-106-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:19 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:29:40 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-106-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:33:35 dlowe1 [~dlowe@c-98-216-106-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:07 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:43:10 -!- dlowe1 [~dlowe@c-98-216-106-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 01:50:26 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-145-177-14.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:51:27 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:38 -!- Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-8-203.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:54:01 serichse` [~user@f049001225.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:55:30 PEEK-CHAR would have been much cleaner taking &optional &key, instead of &rest 01:55:42 err, just &optional 01:56:48 -!- serichsen [~user@f049103018.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:58:08 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:58:40 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:00:33 -!- ppasteau [~ppasteau@bas11-montrealak-1177756560.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:01:10 ppasteau [~ppasteau@bas11-montrealak-1177756560.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:01:30 -!- timack 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[~fitzgen@li82-33.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:07:47 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:07:59 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:08:19 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:17:28 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:19:54 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 03:29:01 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:02 -!- mmullis [~mmullis@208.65.90.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:36:45 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:40 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 03:40:21 yo _3b 03:40:47 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas11-montrealak-1177756560.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:43:11 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas11-montrealak-1177756560.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:44:43 -!- ppasteau [~ppasteau@bas11-montrealak-1177756560.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:46:53 i'm excited about a vaporious non-lisp program that someone needs to write for me 03:47:52 gonzojive [~red@c-66-31-17-61.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:54 i don't care if it's commercial or open source/free so long as it [will] exist and do it's job 03:50:08 it's just such a beast to write I am hoping that somebody motivated does it 03:52:47 how do you spell soliloquy? 03:53:14 flyspell says you got it right 03:53:44 so back to my soliloquy 03:54:33 who is going to write a 100% GPU font renderer compatible with opengl for me to dink with? 03:55:00 if you have a mac, no one needs to! 03:55:39 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:56:20 which works in an opengl framebuffer? 03:56:36 yeah, i had played with it recently.. its all opengl 03:56:39 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:56:43 link plz 03:56:57 Core Graphics (Quartz) and Core Animation are the two main frameworks 03:57:23 if you are seeing this with a mac then you are seeing opengl =) 03:57:45 *humasect* waited over 15 years for it to come true~ 03:59:02 maturin [~evan@cpe-98-149-134-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:59:06 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has joined #lisp 04:01:29 i don't have a mac 04:01:46 -!- maturin [~evan@cpe-98-149-134-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:02:07 doesn't mean I can't get one, it's about getting everybody to get one 04:02:34 makes sense.. most of the devs i know are using a mac. but also many are not 04:03:40 i decided to be portable and just use the web for everything=) and leave it up to the OS to accelerate or not 04:03:45 so back to a linux-windows-mac solution 04:03:53 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:04:27 yeah=) the browser stuff is accelerated on chrome and safari and opera for at least windows and mac.. not sure about linux but probably chrome and opera 04:04:40 (accelerated=GPU) 04:04:49 i would hate to do [interactive] mechanical cad unaccelerated 04:04:59 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-66-31-17-61.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 04:05:33 hmmm.. SVG? or embedded webkit? 04:06:50 don't you think it's bad enough that I'm abstracting the dwim to somebody else just for font rendering not to mention the whole ball of wax? 04:07:17 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:39 dunno.. keep everything in the same place ? +) 04:08:40 i'll just write for the magic browser 04:09:28 i'm beginning to consider it myself, some geometry modeling for the browser.. hmm..=) 04:10:53 humasect, you mean a 3D engine in SVG+DOM? 04:10:54 which browser tessellates nurbs surfaces on the gpu? 04:11:36 dom is dum 04:13:01 ah i forgot to mention: all the new web stuff like CSS3 and SVG are modeled after the fancy mac techs. 04:13:12 Lajla: like blender, but in the browser=) 04:13:21 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:26 manic12: SVG =) 04:13:46 humasect, a 3D modeling app in a browser? 04:13:54 yes 04:14:12 Won't that like consume resources thereby no longer enabling you to have a browser and iTunes running at the same time? 04:14:12 that would require WebGL of course 04:14:13 might as well quit lisp programming 04:14:23 manic12: parenscript! 04:14:38 http://common-lisp.net/project/parenscript/ 04:14:55 i haven't used it since about 2001 04:15:24 i hear it's improved, but i don't have any customers for that right now 04:16:25 hm~ 04:17:31 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas11-montrealak-1177756560.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 04:18:15 just give me a really good cross-platform gpu font rendering engine and i'll dink with the rest 04:18:22 on my own 04:18:26 no dom 04:19:05 unless someone pays me to do dom 04:19:38 cairo? freetype ? 04:19:48 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:19:53 freetype does not run on the gpu 04:20:03 the only real cross platform for accelerated font i am pretty sure is web 04:20:25 a gpu port of freetype would be nice 04:20:47 secondly is SVG and PDF but SVG is rendered with web browsers and PDF rendered on mac. 04:22:15 seriously, html 5 is nice despite the fact that it parses to dom and has angle-brackets 04:22:49 but that doesn't mean I want to jump on the bandwagon and deploy via browser 04:23:12 no need, use embedded renderer like webkit 04:23:34 webkit is huge if you haven't ever checked 04:23:36 or KHTML or what its called on linux 04:23:50 yep =) 04:24:01 where's beach? 04:24:14 thankfully most people have a browser already installed on their OS 04:24:14 back me up on this CLIM 10.0! 04:25:13 if i'm going to have a big yucky program I would rather look at parentheses 04:25:22 like parenscript? 04:25:50 afaik it has html done in sexps, no need for angle brackets if you dont like them =) 04:26:00 parenscript is good for dealing with the browser world, yes, but no, not parenscript 04:26:39 well my observation is that if what you are looking for truly does not exist, you must make it or turn back and take another road~ 04:27:27 i'm getting knowledgeable enough with freetype to possibly write some of the algorithms in glsl 04:27:42 but i know that is a long hard road 04:28:16 the whole browser world is insanity^n 04:28:26 hm~ surely it must have been done outside of browsers 04:28:42 i havent looked at cairo in a long time 04:29:08 oh there is some OpenVG implementation somewhere that uses OpenGL 04:29:21 OpenGL ES 04:29:26 probably 04:29:41 i cant remember what format the example used though=) 04:30:10 something like Inkscape does a bunch of font stuff and absolutely none of it is accelerated though 04:30:36 xinming_ [~hyy@122.238.75.79] has joined #lisp 04:30:49 xristos is the guy who got me really thinking about fonts in gl 04:30:59 mek||malloc [~mek@wifi-roaming-159-145.nss.udel.edu] has joined #lisp 04:31:14 before i talked to him i had been using wgl bitmap fonts 04:31:17 i remember searching a lot for vector/svg/font accelerated portable rendering and i only found mac. then i found the web and ported my stuff casually.. not sure if there is something new 04:31:49 i bet freetype will jump on it eventually 04:32:21 it took me longer to understand the insane web stuff (and still is!) than it was to port stuff and test things to make sure it would work perfectly ^_^ 04:32:30 If I had a list which contained a function, like '(*) how could I use apply to apply it to a lisp of parameters... For example (apply #'(eval '(*)) '(2 3 4)) -- which is wrong but basically the idea I'm trying to accomplish. 04:32:43 To a list of parameters* sorry. 04:32:50 first? 04:33:10 apply #'(first '(*)) ? 04:33:31 (apply (first '(*)) args) 04:33:34 -!- xinming [~hyy@218.73.130.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:33:48 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:33:53 Ah, no #' needed. 04:34:06 why are you wanting to do that anyway? 04:34:24 manic12: Postfix calculator 04:34:54 eval is only good if your writing a repl 04:35:06 i guess that's what your doing? 04:35:15 Not really, just experimenting 04:35:31 I have list like... (3 2 + 4 *) 04:35:33 ok 04:36:47 Yeah, that worked perfectly. Thank you manic12. 04:37:03 Just did as you suggested; (let ((op '(*))) (apply (car op) '(2 2))) 04:37:40 infix defeats the purpose of lisp though 04:38:27 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:29 but since you're just experimenting go for it 04:38:31 manic12: That was postfix, but yes, I'm aware... And also not necessarily the case if you're working with macros or have some strange schema for a genetic algorithm where you have to mutate symbols in a list. 04:38:36 oh 04:38:39 Yeah, simply experimentation. I am in agreement. 04:38:50 can't you just eval reverse 04:38:54 er 04:39:07 I was thinking about that but that doesn't quite work either. 04:39:10 not really 04:39:59 with a name like malloc i wouldn't think you are a forth type 04:40:32 Eh, I prefer functional languages. 04:40:43 implement a stack and when the evaluator detects an operator let it apply it to the stack 04:40:54 manic12: Exactly what I'm doing. 04:41:07 Tail recursively, of course. 04:41:35 i use loop, but i'm sick 04:42:05 Yeah, I try to avoid loops but everyone had their own way of doing things. 04:42:13 If I had to use elisp, I'd use loops. :op 04:45:49 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tvpljmizyalskjak] has joined #lisp 04:46:06 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:48:48 i don't want to become an expert on font rendering 04:48:51 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-65-139.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:48:56 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 04:50:15 it's just so divergent 04:50:40 hehe 04:50:53 steve jobs is anoying, so mac is out of the question 04:51:43 the problem itself seems to consist of many smaller problems to be solved individually 04:51:52 i'll just have to stick with texture fonts for now 04:52:04 i've never met the guy. he's just some dude 04:52:32 the simplest path is indeed the shortest! 04:52:37 he's got a list of languages you can use, and lisp is not one of them 04:53:44 he also bought a house in Tennessee in order to get a quicker organ donation 04:54:29 (in his defense i probably would have wanted to do the same thing) 04:56:02 none of that has anything to do with my life =) 04:56:06 fonts renders are as complicated or as close to it as solid modelers 04:56:17 font renderers 04:56:30 yea~ 04:57:56 can you use the OS provided methods on top or alongside ? 04:58:15 not with consistency 04:59:32 change the subject 04:59:45 *humasect* wipes forehead... being glad to have overcome all that troublesome stuff 04:59:54 since i'm obviously fixated on some ideal 05:00:20 =) i will bet that about 50% of the apps on the appstore are actually using the languages described by the fellows who has described it so 05:01:12 i used a mac once to play zork back in the day 05:01:32 haven't really messed with them since 05:01:53 to me it is just a "better linux" for my needs. i use them the same =) 05:02:12 (or "better non-windows posix place" or however i could say that) 05:02:26 yeah 05:03:45 i wish freebsd were "a better linux" 05:04:07 i hear good things about freebsd~ 05:04:09 it's a good os, just doesn't have as many hackers, which is why it's a good os 05:04:19 hehe yep 05:04:39 i have a feeling that linux app hackers are busy cloning mac and windows 05:04:42 +still 05:06:14 oo I should pull for Symbolics Genera here 05:06:27 hehe 05:07:09 if only we had symbolics we would fly our cars to work and have health care for everyone or something like that 05:08:01 ^_^ gnu! 05:10:26 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:12:57 anyway, nice chatting with ya, good night 05:13:06 you too ^_^ be well~ 05:13:18 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 05:16:11 freiksenet [~freiksene@vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 05:21:23 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:21:55 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-38-80.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:23:52 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 05:39:26 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:40:06 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 05:41:26 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-140-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:41:31 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-140-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:44:58 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.66.199.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:45:51 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-66-199-216.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:39 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 05:49:25 -!- ost``` is now known as ost 05:50:19 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-66-199-216.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:50:48 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 05:50:52 cmm [~cmm@109.67.202.201] has joined #lisp 05:53:01 Good morning everyone! 05:53:42 ^_^ 05:54:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:55:50 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:31 tcr1 [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 05:57:07 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:00:58 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:01:08 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:03:48 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:11:57 Night folks 06:11:58 -!- erk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:12:03 -!- mek||malloc [~mek@wifi-roaming-159-145.nss.udel.edu] has left #lisp 06:16:23 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:16:31 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 06:18:18 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27:57 Jabberwockey [~jens@hmbg-5f762b6b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:41 exilio5 [~user@cpe-24-242-2-225.elp.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:34:45 whoami 06:35:04 exilio5? 06:35:31 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@hmbg-5f762b6b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:35:49 oops 06:37:02 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:37:13 good morning 06:37:18 hello mvilleneuve 06:43:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:47:08 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 06:48:25 -!- serichse` is now known as serichsen 06:48:34 Good morning! 06:48:42 hello serichsen 06:50:26 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-3-179.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 06:51:54 leo2007` [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:52:34 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-11-158.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:56:37 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:57:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:59:53 -!- exilio5 [~user@cpe-24-242-2-225.elp.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: eatfood] 06:59:59 freiksenet [~freiksene@vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 07:01:51 splittist [~John@16-254.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:01:54 morning 07:02:45 hello splittist 07:05:38 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-109-64-205-76.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:30 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.202.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:14:26 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:14:54 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 07:18:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.206.215] has joined #lisp 07:20:19 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:21:48 -!- Krystof [~csr21@78.146.225.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:22:09 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:22:23 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@23.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:23:46 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-64-102.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:14 Hmm, Baker's decision procedure needs the MOP. 07:42:30 echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 07:42:45 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:42:49 delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 07:43:28 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 07:43:28 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 07:43:28 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 08:02:34 Amadiro [~whoppix@1x-193-157-194-50.uio.no] has joined #lisp 08:07:25 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:07:55 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 08:10:28 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@1x-193-157-194-50.uio.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:11:10 fiveop [~fiveop@p5B285688.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:11:16 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:14:50 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:15:07 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:16:13 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 08:17:29 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:17:59 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 08:20:01 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:20:07 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:01 froydnj: in your blog, do you mean multiple-value-prog1? 08:25:31 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:30:24 codemonkeyx [~codemonke@www.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:09 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:35:21 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:37:36 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B199.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:55 fiveop_ [~fiveop@p5B284F6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:55 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5B285688.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:43:05 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.79.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 08:44:48 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:45:11 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:46:28 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has joined #lisp 08:46:47 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:49:03 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:49:09 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C47C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:48 -!- fiveop_ [~fiveop@p5B284F6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 08:53:51 maus [~maus@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:03 Good morning! 08:59:17 vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:58 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 09:02:13 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:03:17 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 09:07:18 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:08:25 good morning 09:08:51 good morning nikodemus 09:10:10 anything interesting going on? 09:11:38 I'm considering restructuring the packages of my project; which is more nerve-wracking than interesting, to be fair. 09:12:06 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:12:28 that stuff is always fun, yeah 09:12:54 are the packages layers or just generally interacting modules? 09:14:44 That is the question... This is all in aid of a fundamental refactoring that introduces an intermediate layer. So, layers are part of it. But there are also a couple of modules that I've been abusing the namespace of for too long. 09:16:07 i have a similar situation in one project 09:16:11 H4ns``` [~user@pD4B9E953.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:18 -!- mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:17:23 usually i just keep everything in a single package, but there i have 4. they are sort of in layers, but stuff from both the top-layer and bottom-layer tends to get abused::too-much 09:18:42 hello maus, nikodemus! 09:19:14 hello beach :) 09:19:33 nikodemus: I am implementing Baker's decision procedure for subtypep, in case you consider that interesting. 09:19:36 beach: how are you, sir?! 09:19:47 maus: Fine, thanks. What about yourself? 09:20:04 beach: thank you, me too, I'm fine! :) 09:20:18 beach: nifty! 09:20:28 -!- H4ns`` [~user@pD4B9EC5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:21:30 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.24.124] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:21:33 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 09:25:01 -!- H4ns``` is now known as H4ns 09:25:37 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:26:53 *logia_th* is back (gone 00:01:10) 09:27:07 *logia_th* is away: going to Sukkah... 09:27:45 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 09:28:38 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:28:49 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-38-80.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:29:21 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-94-172.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:33:32 naiv_ [~naiv@ARennes-553-1-85-192.w86-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:35:35 freiksenet [~freiksene@vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 09:35:36 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36:41 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757fb6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:56 -!- naiv [~naiv@ARennes-553-1-88-252.w86-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:40:51 So since SBCL is not using Baker's procedure, are there cases when subtypep fails on SBCL, even though none of the type specifiers contains `satisfies'? 09:42:09 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:43:08 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.184.107] has joined #lisp 09:46:03 brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 09:47:14 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 09:50:07 What's the preferred library for url parsing nowadays? 09:58:44 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:00:32 beach: is it true that in the slots' names of a class, we should put the character "%" in? Would you mind explaining me again? 10:01:20 maus: Sure, I'll explain. 10:01:36 beach: thank you! 10:02:01 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C47C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:02:15 maus: The CL package system is about symbols. If you define a slot that has the same name as the slot reader or the slot accessor, when you export the reader or accessor name, you also export the slot name itself. 10:02:56 maus: That allows client code to use slot-value to access the slot directly, but that is most often not wanted, because you define the protocol (API) as a collection of generic functions. 10:03:13 beach: they can also use an unexported symbol, so... 10:03:49 *madnificent* always figured: if you don't use the accessors, you'll run into problems sooner or later. 10:03:53 maus: So, we need to invent different names for the slot and the reader/accessor, so that (as madnificent says) we can export the reader/accessor name, but not the slot name. 10:05:08 beach: yes, I see. 10:05:32 maus: There are currently about three ways of doing that. One is to call the slot foo and the reader/accessor class-foo where class is the name of the class. Another is to call the slot foo, and the reader/accessor foo-of, and the third is the one that I have chosen, namely call the slot %foo and the reader/accessor foo. 10:05:33 thank you, beach, madnificent! :) 10:05:44 beach: I'm actually trying to claim the opposite (though I don't think it is necessarily bad practice to use % in the slot-names) 10:06:06 maus: by the way, listen to beach in any case :) 10:06:10 -!- leo2007` [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp 10:06:21 madnificent: yes. :) 10:06:26 madnificent: you claim the opposite of what? 10:07:04 beach: I claimed that exporting the symbols of the slot names wasn't necessarily bad, as they implicitly don't belong to the api 10:07:31 maus: Using % means that if client code wants access to the slot, it has to do (slot-value package::%foo) which contains two warning signs, namely `::' and `%'. 10:08:21 beach: you just shouldn't use slot-value unless you're the maintainer of the class (which can indeed be a bit more vague in cl) 10:08:48 madnificent: I see. But I have had cases where I forgot what was part of the API, and actually did (slot-value mumble 'foo), and I regret not having been warned about that. 10:09:03 madnificent: Yes, I agree. 10:10:49 Krystof [~csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust1263.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:11:42 beach: I get your (valid) point. I need to think longer about it to pick a side :) 10:12:17 maus: CLIM uses the first method, so to get the parent of a sheet, you do (sheet-parent sheet), making it possible to use `parent' as the name of the slot. But that looks pretty strange when you subclass sheet (say `pane'), because now you have to do (sheet-parent pane), which means you have to remember that panes are sheets, in addition to knowing that panes have parents. 10:13:46 maus: So for a deep subclass, you end up with code that looks like (sheet-foo x) (pane-bar x) (gadget-baz x) 10:14:09 beach: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bugs?field.tag=types 10:14:51 i don't remember offhand if any of them is a user-observable NIL, NIL result from subtypep where the relation should be decidable 10:15:24 *splittist* loves it when he finds the slime functionality he just dreamed up already exists 10:15:40 nikodemus: Thanks! 10:15:49 To your service, sir! 10:16:43 splittist: what was it? 10:16:51 slime-browse-system 10:17:57 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 10:18:06 freiksenet [~freiksene@vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 10:18:28 slime should have a hint-of-the-day :) 10:18:37 not a bad idea 10:18:49 beach: thank you very much! I'll try to remember these and apply them when writing lines of code. :) 10:18:52 it does 10:19:07 Not to mention a @slimehints twitter feed (: 10:19:11 maus: Sure, no problem. 10:19:16 it does? how do i turn it on? 10:19:36 It's not used, but there's slime-motd 10:19:51 ah 10:20:43 i was thinking something that would pop out the documentation for a random slime command, keeping track of the ones already seen 10:21:23 Emacs probably has something on that line already 10:22:28 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 10:24:26 "it looks like you are trying to write a lisp programme. Would you like me to require some modules for you?" 10:24:36 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:24:59 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:40 Krystof: that's qlicky, isn't it? 10:25:51 qlippy* 10:26:59 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C47C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:12 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 10:28:31 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:36 shouldn't (subtypep '(double-float x y) '(or (double-float x a) (double-float b y))) return T T when x < a,b < y and b is the smallest float > a? 10:29:02 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 10:30:46 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 10:32:08 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:32:10 beach: yes, that is one normalization that sbcl's subtypep doesn't do 10:33:21 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:36:06 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:42:53 okflo [~user@91-115-203-81.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 10:45:51 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-81.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 10:52:19 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9E953.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52:40 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 10:52:52 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-81.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 11:00:34 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:02:07 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:25 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:25 freiksenet [~freiksene@vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 11:03:26 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:04:51 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:16 beach: you remember my inquiries regarding non-interning reader? What do you think about introducing it as an extension, similar to how extensible sequences are written (the CDR documents, if anyone ever cared about them?). All in backwards-compatible way, of course. 11:05:33 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 11:05:42 it seems to me that the necessary changes would be less than 10 lines in SBCL, for example. 11:05:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:06:25 <_8david> Having been bitten by code using SUBTYPEP, which worked for the author on SBCL by depending on accurate results for arguments the spec doesn't guarantee accurateness for, and doesn't work elsewhere (i.e., Allegro), I wonder whether it wouldn't be helpul for users to have a SUBTYPEP as dumb as possible. 11:07:14 <_8david> I.e., simply give up when seeing eql, and, function, member, not, or, satisfies, value to avoid luring the user into non-portable traps. 11:07:40 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 11:11:36 p_l|backup: Sure, that would be a good idea. 11:13:01 _8david: That sounds very unappealing to me. 11:13:55 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:19:23 <_8david> Well, let's assume for a moment a perfect world where #lisp can dictate to ACL and all those others what algorithm to use, e.g. by going back in time and changing the spec to be useful. 11:19:55 <_8david> Is there a single appealing algorithm the spec could have specified instead of being vague? 11:19:59 <_8david> (And is there an appealing use case for anything involving SATISFIES?) 11:21:40 (satisfies array-displacement-p) 11:21:50 or whatever the thing is. ARRAY-DISPLACEMENT 11:22:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.206.215] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:22:47 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:26:44 beach: basically, I'm surrounding all "interning" in reader with a block to check if *reader-nointern* is set, and not executing INTERN if it is. 11:26:55 _8david: The only algorithm I know at the moment is Baker's. I don't know whether it qualifies as "appealing" in your book. 11:27:33 p_l|backup: sounds reasonable. 11:28:29 Krystof: curses 11:28:41 yes, m-v-prog1 would be the Right Thing 11:29:19 ogamita [~user@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:51 -!- ddevaal [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 11:29:51 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:34:14 beach: it would be nice if it managed to get into cltl3 ... assuming any implementation will actually care about cltl3 11:35:58 Is cltl3 still being worked on? I haven't heard anything for some time. 11:36:28 billitch [~billitch@tru75-4-82-227-168-143.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:08 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-95-133.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:38:00 no idea. Could be nifty if we could get more people working on it, especially from implementation's dev teams. 11:38:10 -!- darkmag [~vfalico@ip-94-112-36-51.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:38:36 availability of "proof of concept", hopefully portable, public domain code to implement some of the functionality could be a nice "carrot" 11:38:58 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn39.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 11:39:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:55 p_l|backup: How about making an annotatable HyperSpec, so that errors can be fixed, and improvements suggested? 11:49:57 blandest [~user@89.122.117.70] has joined #lisp 11:52:09 ddevaal [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has joined #lisp 11:54:03 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:56:41 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:23 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:58:23 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:59:05 urandom__ [~user@p548A7ED4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:23 Joreji [~thomas@80-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:00:33 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:48 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-95-133.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:09:13 -!- okflo [~user@91-115-203-81.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:09:27 leo2007` [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:21 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:13:51 -!- ddevaal [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 12:17:18 is there a way to eliminate spam requests being reported to -admin mailing lists on c-l.net? 12:18:37 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:23:26 beach: like the clim annotable version? that would be awesome 12:28:48 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tvpljmizyalskjak] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:30:28 sepp2k [~sexy@p548CC5AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:50 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-mzlqzqacvezdthjn] has joined #lisp 12:34:06 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 12:35:11 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:36:04 ddevaal [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has joined #lisp 12:36:42 -!- ddevaal [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 12:37:49 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 12:37:49 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:37:56 mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 12:40:36 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:48:41 ddevaal [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has joined #lisp 12:50:22 -!- brickhazel [~brickhaze@63-144-132-78.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:52:40 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:47 has `start-server' in hunchentoot been renamed? 12:54:51 it was removed 12:55:37 if you're missing start-server, then you'll probably find other things different as well in hunchentoot 1.x 12:56:47 stassats: I am following through some tutorial and most of them used start-server. 12:57:07 well, those are outdated tutorials 12:58:27 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:58:36 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:09:32 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-32-79.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:48 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 13:10:51 UnwashedMeme [~nathan@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 13:11:02 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-94-172.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:14:49 froydnj: you want m-v-prog1 in your latest blog post. 13:15:00 pkhuong: Krystof beat you to it =/ 13:17:17 I dislike the asymmetry between prog1 and progn, though I'm sure there's a good reason for it 13:17:43 it's totally stupid :-) 13:18:35 is it? 13:19:16 in case of multiple values prog1 have to save all values somewhere 13:20:17 Sure that's where Lisp's fastness comes from! 13:20:56 froydnj! 13:21:07 Xaaaaach! 13:21:11 There I thought I had a wonderful use case for the APPEND method combination, and then realized if want :MOST-SPECIFIC-FIRST rather than :MOST-SPECIFIC-LAST :-( 13:21:20 froydnj: chipz is blowing the stack on abcl and some sbcls :( 13:21:26 *Xach* grabs the paste 13:21:54 http://paste.lisp.org/display/114921 has one example 13:21:56 tcr: the problem is? 13:22:09 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:22:33 froydnj: is that something you're interested in pursuing, and if so, how can i help you do it? 13:22:40 whee, 16000 frames 13:22:47 Sorry I mean the other way around :-) 13:23:13 is the TCO disabled there? 13:23:42 I'm sure it's TCO not being applied; Lispworks has similar issues 13:23:54 Xach: yes, I am interested in fixing it 13:23:55 tcr: what i mean is that you can specify the most/least specific first with append method combination, right? 13:24:12 debug 3 in SBCL disables TCO 13:24:57 hm, the Lispworks issue is a different TCO-ish failure 13:25:15 i haven't had problems in general on lispworks. 13:25:22 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:26:15 -!- TomJ [~tomj@89.241.155.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:34 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:28:16 Xach: one way to fix it is to change all the instance of: 13:28:28 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust1263.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:28:37 (setf (inflate-state-state state) #'FUNC)) (FUNC) 13:28:46 into: 13:28:51 (goto-state FUNC) 13:28:54 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:29:07 where goto-state is a macro that expands to something like: 13:29:24 (setf (inflate-state-state state) #'FUNC) (return) 13:29:36 navigator [~navigator@p54896993.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:48 on non-TCO-friendly implementations and the current code on TCO-friendly implementations 13:29:49 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 13:30:12 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has joined #lisp 13:31:41 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:31:45 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 13:31:58 Xach: if you wanted to do that and send me a pull request, that'd be fine. otherwise, I will handle it later this week 13:32:26 I'm afraid I don't have time to try it. It's easier for me to temporarily switch to Pierre Mai's Deflate 13:32:31 ah. yea. abcl doesn't to much with tc's (yet?) 13:32:51 boo 13:33:14 easier to use a whole different API than to fix a bug? ok 13:33:30 heh. no. 13:34:03 froydnj: My use is pretty simple. (gunzip-file input-file output-file) is about it. 13:34:11 -!- serichsen [~user@f049001225.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Good bye!] 13:34:34 but I'm always bound to the capabilities of Java which refuses to optimize tc-s. 13:34:42 oh. hehe. you were not talking to me. 13:34:53 Xach: fair enough 13:35:08 ehu: yeah, I suppose Java's lack of TCO is a problem :( 13:35:27 Isn't Java in general a problem? 13:35:55 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:15 I have a vague memory of some scheme implementation (Bigloo?) working around it, but to do so, they had to keep thread-local state, which is a performance issue. 13:36:27 Odin-: depends on your goals. 13:36:55 mjonsson: Out of sheer curiosity, where are you from? 13:38:11 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-64-102.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:38:29 ehu: What goals are compatible with Java? 13:39:08 java bashing, how original! 13:39:18 Odin-: being able to roll out in environments with arbitrary but very strict rules. ie. reality. 13:39:55 -!- echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40:31 ehu: Ah. Yes. It's those arbitrary but strict rules that form most of the problems, though. 13:40:39 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:59 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 13:41:25 Odin-: there's no way I'm going to convince Information Risk Management of a huge bank of that. 13:41:27 ehu: seems to me most of the overhead comes with supporting continuations already. 13:41:33 better conform to their restrictions. 13:42:25 I wonder what the average time between a person beginning to learn lisp and thinking "I never want to use another programming language again" is 13:42:36 pkhuong: I actually didn't really think of it that way. would be interesting to compare the performance between a scheme and a common lisp, both implemented on the JVM. 13:42:40 ehu: Oh, I'm not contending that point. I'm just saying there's a problem that needs to be solved, and it mostly revolves around bizarre demands by people in suits. :) 13:43:09 Borbus: really quick - if it ever comes? 13:43:33 Borbus: for some it starts even before learning lisp 13:43:40 just reading about lisp is enough! 13:44:20 those are the people who join #lisp and ask for help convincing their PHP-using, employed friends of Lisp's true superiority 13:44:22 For me it was when I first loaded SLIME which was just after rading abotu lisp 13:44:33 Lisp isn't a programming language, it's intermediate compiler input. 13:44:43 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:44:44 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:51 I'd been using Lisp for a lot longer.. in the form of emacs lisp though 13:44:52 It just happens to be easy to generate by hand. 13:46:23 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 13:46:50 TomJ [~tomj@89.241.155.73] has joined #lisp 13:48:05 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-mzlqzqacvezdthjn] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:51:41 -!- billitch [~billitch@tru75-4-82-227-168-143.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:52:36 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 13:53:40 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-naddrusivhrsocha] has joined #lisp 13:53:51 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:39 billitch [~billitch@tru75-4-82-227-168-143.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:09 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.107.230] has joined #lisp 14:07:50 petter [~user@217.118.44.36] has joined #lisp 14:08:29 SportChick [~essy@freenode/staff/sportchick] has joined #lisp 14:08:59 erk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 14:09:10 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:50 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-134-32.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:11:17 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:12:40 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-naddrusivhrsocha] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:14:36 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:15:08 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:54 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:35 -!- SportChick [~essy@freenode/staff/sportchick] has left #lisp 14:17:42 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: HULK ANGRY! HULK DISCONNECT!] 14:22:04 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-180-6.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:22:11 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.115.109.186] has joined #lisp 14:22:52 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-40-82-251-177-201.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:23:22 -!- blandest [~user@89.122.117.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:25:08 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.184.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:30:58 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-134-127.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:50 roconnor [~roconnor@206-248-179-65.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:16 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-44-93.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:39:28 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-32-79.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:46 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:41 mathrick [~mathrick@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 14:42:31 I cleaned my keyboard this morning and the keys are now disconcertingly white.. 14:43:00 _Dodek [~dodek@orange13.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 14:43:23 *nyef* would be disconcerted if that happened to his keyboards... mostly because the keys are supposed to be black. 14:44:22 my keyboard layout doesn't feel LISP OPTIMAL 14:45:13 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:45:31 Quadrescence: I hear qwerty is good. 14:46:16 Maybe I'll switch [] and () 14:46:27 Quadrescence: I put () on the home row. 14:46:38 The only cute thing I tried with my keyboard layout was replacing caps lock with backspace. 14:46:49 Didn't really do much, though. 14:46:54 H-j => ( and H-k => ) 14:47:06 Hyper goes on the left foot, obviously ;) 14:47:15 Haha 14:47:24 Via bluetooth-enabled micro-switches in your shoes? 14:47:25 Quadrescence: sounds good. And Ctrl, Meta, Hyer, Super from the spacebar outwards on both sides... 14:47:42 I really need to get my Symbolics keyboard hooked up. 14:47:42 nyef: nah. just normal foot switches (: 14:48:10 schmrkc: The eudaemons would be disappointed. 14:48:28 There was an interesting Naggum post about shifting the right half of the keyboard one key rightwards, and putting the parens etc in the middile. 14:48:34 middle* 14:49:14 get an ergonomic keyboard with a split spacebar, change left half to ( and right to ) 14:50:09 nyef: The biggest problem I have discovered with a highly tweaked keyboard layout (swedish dvorak + a lot "extra stuff" on the home row) + foot switches is that now that I will be spending quite the many hours at some office with the qwerty and hacking remotely.. well it is very hard to do anything at all .) 14:50:40 There is that, yes. 14:50:56 Plus, getting the same layout to work on all of the machines around here would be a pain. 14:51:11 ya it always is. 14:51:15 keyboard modifications should really live in the keyboard. 14:51:19 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:31 splittist: What a splendid idea. I agree totally. 14:51:37 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 14:52:03 and the keyboard should be turing complete 14:52:15 I noticed that SBCL has an upgraded-array-element-type of (unsigned-byte 7) and one of (unsigned-byte 15). What is the purpose of those representations? 14:52:27 only if you always carry your modified keyboard with you, which is not cloud-correct 14:52:45 the #1=(programmable . #1#) keyboard 14:52:46 cmm-: bah - the cloud is so 2012... 14:53:04 beach: spec pedantism 14:53:10 cmm-: you could save your modifications on a flash-card 14:53:23 or... in the cloud 14:53:38 jsnell: Really? I was under the impression that they were known to be unsigned-but-loadable-with-signed-operations. 14:54:01 -!- froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:14 -!- ogamita [~user@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54:22 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 14:54:55 beach: there's a reading of the spec whereby the existence of (signed-byte 8) and unsigned-byte implies that there must also be specialized (unsigned-byte 7) arrays. I can't quote chapter and verse though 14:55:18 jsnell: I see. I'll try to find it. 14:55:21 jsnell: Thanks! 14:55:54 nyef: Why would that be an advantage? 14:56:17 Don't know, but possibly instruction selection? 14:57:21 jsnell: It's not a consequence of the type-lattice thing, is it? 14:57:38 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:55 (I know that was the argument for UAET NIL.) 14:58:29 How can I find the most significant 1 in the binary representation of an integer? 14:58:38 clhs integer-length 14:58:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_intege.htm 14:58:45 Borbus: Enjoy. 14:58:59 nyef: no, I think it was something different 14:59:13 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:59:29 Hrm. I'd go hunting, but... Not now. 14:59:34 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:45 nyef: oh right, didn't think it would be that easy, thanks 15:00:08 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: Eish!] 15:00:33 gonzojive [~red@c-66-31-17-61.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:57 clhs type-of 15:00:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_tp_of.htm 15:02:14 hmm... no, probably wasn't 1a of type-of either 15:02:16 mathrick [~mathrick@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 15:03:11 Might have something to do with SUBTYPEP? 15:03:28 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:04:11 froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 15:07:07 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:08:11 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:09:13 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 15:12:35 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:14:41 Dear #lisp, sometimes I wish Scheme people were more like you sometimes. Sincerely, A Concerned User 15:15:07 What's wrong with them? 15:15:26 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:15:48 What's right with us? 15:16:12 Quadrescence: I don't know about that! 15:16:52 i guess scheme people are less likely to answer CL questions 15:17:09 Heh! 15:17:56 Only just, though - unless you count 'but what do you really want to do?' as an answer (: 15:19:55 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:21:09 I just had a disheartening conversation yesterday about generic functions and optimizing dispatching on type, which is "incredibly slow and not fit for lisp" 15:21:55 "incredibly"? 15:22:20 ... Yes, because unoptimized dispatching on type, as used for, say, ANY MATH OPERATION, is so much faster. 15:22:30 "compared to ordinary procedure invocation, it is terribly slow" 15:23:24 Unfortunately it wasn't just a meaningless conversation, it was concerning the next scheme standard 15:23:51 "Yes, compared to driving an automobile, an elevator is terribly slow. What's your point?" 15:24:13 nyef: "It _HAS_ to be fast.", supposedly 15:24:25 but, lisp is slow, isn't it? 15:24:36 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.115.109.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:24:37 stassats: also only good for AI I hear 15:24:43 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:46 Just remember, if it doesn't have to be useful, it can be infinitely fast. 15:25:49 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:26:37 what about continuations? 15:26:42 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-11-96.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:27:11 are they in scheme because they're incredibly fast? 15:27:13 Are numbers and characters the only types for which there can be specialized arrays? 15:27:47 AFAIK, no. 15:27:47 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-44-93.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:28:15 Actually, there's a simple argument for why not, as well: NIL has to have a specialized array type. 15:28:25 in practice yes, since a specialized array only makes sense for immutable data 15:28:49 jsnell: SAPs? 15:29:04 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:29:04 basically numbers :-) 15:29:26 stassats: Those provide soooooooo much functionality in so little words that it shouldn't be removed; and why have generics (generic `equal?` for example) when you can just do `string-equal?` or `foo-equal?`. Also, on that note, type annotations in generic definitions would be BAD because type annotations mean it'd be like C++ (but when I said "how is `string-equal?` not implicitly a type annotation, they said that was a philosophical question 15:29:26 ). :| 15:29:32 sorry for rant 15:29:43 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:30:19 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 15:30:32 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 15:31:09 *logia_th* is back (gone 06:04:03) 15:32:11 they just don't want any newfangled things in their language, with which i agree, i've no interesting in CL being changed 15:32:12 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B3271CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:30 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B57E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:32:35 Quadrescence: I have learned to stay out of discussions like that, because people don't argue about technical differences, even though that is what it appears like superficially, but instead need to assert their membership of a group. 15:33:10 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:34:03 beach: Yeah, though I'm on the working groups/committees for the next Scheme standard so I should be talking about this. :-( 15:34:19 Oh dear! 15:35:21 "polymorphism is only useful in statically typed languages like Haskell since they can easily resolve dispatch at compile time" 15:36:01 i think things were as funny during CL standardization, and there are even archived 15:36:09 beach: annotation-enabled hyperspec is good idea as well :) 15:36:20 stassats: Well the nice thing about CL is that it's actually programmable. 15:36:26 Quadrescence: perhaps they should use integer-+, integer--, single-float-/, double-float-*, etc etc. 15:36:32 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:36:34 sykopomp: hahaha, yes 15:37:06 and integer+float 15:37:12 (wasn't there a Henry Baker paper that suggested something along those lines? The DKLisp critique?) 15:37:50 maybe not... 15:37:59 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:01 Wow - McClim patches. (Well, patch.) 15:38:07 *p_l|backup* personally would prefer a more-generic lisp than even CLOS allows. 15:38:14 I'm kinda spoiled by Haskell in this regard 15:38:38 p_l|backup: in the sense of having more 'default' genfuns? 15:38:42 splittist: there are more at the mcclim bugtracker 15:38:53 sykopomp: in sense of having everything as a sort-of genfun 15:39:13 I'd be fine with an all-generic lisp as long as type inference were guaranteed 15:39:25 dlowe: I assumed that was a given :) 15:40:21 You'd need a pretty different lisp to guarantee type inference :\ 15:40:32 My Lisp-in-Lisp will probably use something like it (it's going to run inside normal CL, though) 15:40:39 and your dispatch mechanism would be more limited than what CL provides, neh? 15:40:42 CLOS* 15:40:48 sykopomp: not necessarily 15:41:00 Though I'll admit it's not a trivial thing to do 15:41:04 well, no EQL dispatch, for one. 15:41:33 and it would require a certain level of type annotation. 15:41:42 sykopomp: I wouldn't guarantee type inference, just do it when possible 15:41:49 "everything is T" looks like type inference 15:42:01 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:42:03 stassats: that's not type inference, that's T inference! 15:42:05 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:27 veritas aeternum 15:43:23 -!- guther [guther@irc.kunsmann.eu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:43:24 dlowe: SBCL spells it as "Veritas aeterna" 15:44:10 kelsin [~kelsin@www.dreaminginlyrics.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:38 that went over my head. :\ 15:45:02 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn39.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:45:21 guther [~guther@92-55-242-227.net.pbthawe.eu] has joined #lisp 15:45:45 pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-214-071.wireless.concordia.ca] has joined #lisp 15:45:50 -!- brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: brandlee] 15:46:03 stassats: bah. 15:46:09 sykopomp: (set t nil) 15:46:23 guther_ [guther@irc.kunsmann.eu] has joined #lisp 15:46:36 sykopomp: setting nil is amusing too 15:47:15 dlowe: "veritas aternum" is afaik incorrect :) 15:47:21 ahh 15:48:06 quick search says that aeternum is neuter, while aeterna is feminine, and veritas is feminine 15:48:46 don't let my wife find out, I'll really never hear the end of that one 15:49:06 -!- symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:13 lol 15:49:16 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:50:10 symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 15:51:40 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:53:30 p_l|backup: it is, but it's an obscure pun, iirc. 15:54:06 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 15:59:22 heh 16:00:43 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.scheme/msg/61fe57feb5a0f9d4?dmode=source 16:04:17 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:23 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:05:13 fiveop [~fiveop@p5B284F6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:44 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:06:01 fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:15 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:18 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:07 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:08:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:08:19 heh, SBCL seems to no longer have those messages 16:08:29 works here 16:08:36 using (set t nil) and (set nil t) 16:09:25 -!- maus [~maus@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Bye bye!] 16:10:25 -!- roconnor [~roconnor@206-248-179-65.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:27 -!- vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:30 Yeah, and possibly with (setf symbol-value) as well. 16:11:17 works only for SET, apparently 16:11:29 *splittist* breaks ABCL... 16:11:39 splittist: did ABCL allow it? 16:12:01 sykopomp: my slime connection died when I tried. 16:12:06 anything that needs fixing? 16:12:11 goodness. 16:12:52 haha. It does allow it. 16:12:53 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:13:03 (set t nil) => NIL, t => NIL 16:13:16 wow 16:13:20 Ouch. It's at the very least supposed to be a constant! 16:13:38 (Cute error messages are not, however, required by the spec.) 16:13:57 the opposite does not work, but it doesn't error. 16:13:57 p_l|backup: for defconstant also 16:14:12 But much appreciated, and in the Spirit of Lisp(TM) 16:14:27 wow 16:14:31 that works? 16:14:33 nice. 16:14:52 well, with 0.16.0, at least. 16:15:06 And 22.0. (eq t nil) => t 16:15:23 argh 16:15:33 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:15:34 that definitely needs fixing. 16:15:46 ehu: would be nice (; 16:15:55 sounds like an opportunity to carry on the legacy of clever error messages. 16:16:45 (format t "foo") => "foo" ... 16:17:09 (defconstant foo 10) (set 'foo 30) foo => 30 16:17:33 so, it's not only for t and nil 16:18:00 right. I think the error is in being able to assign to a constant. 16:18:10 setq throws an error 16:19:17 Hey, for more fun, how about the sequence (set t nil) (set t 't)? 16:19:37 doesn't work 16:19:46 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.79.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 16:19:52 What sort of "doesn't work"? 16:20:04 well, t is still NIL after the latter form 16:20:11 Yes, but NIL should be T. 16:20:19 but it's NIL! 16:20:27 And your point is? 16:20:35 The first argument to SET is evaluated. 16:20:36 nyef: and nil is still nil 16:20:47 That's... odd. 16:20:47 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 16:21:23 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:22:05 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:24:27 stassats`: I think from the implementation it's all perfectly comprehensible. 16:24:49 NIL is implemented as its own Java class; I don't think T is. 16:24:50 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:44 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:26:19 For a second there I wondered why the heck NIL would be its own class... and then I remembered that it's a LIST. 16:30:32 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7ED4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:30:53 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757fb6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:15 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-66-31-17-61.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 16:35:58 *beach* thinks Baker's method is pretty clever, even though the paper could have have been more clear. 16:36:58 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.109.186] has joined #lisp 16:38:30 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:44:34 what test does `case' use? 16:44:49 EQL, isn't it? 16:44:58 yes 16:45:09 (There's some language in the spec about any unspecified equality predicate being EQL.) 16:45:13 thanks. i was wondering if it worked with chars 16:45:18 it does 16:45:39 Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:39 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:45:39 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 16:52:10 jmbr [~jmbr@23.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:54:22 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@23.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:55:12 rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:48 nyef: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/17_ba.htm 16:57:13 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:35 urandom__ [~user@p548A4AF0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:46 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.168.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:07:26 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-214-071.wireless.concordia.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:07:29 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.146.201] has joined #lisp 17:08:09 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:11:42 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:17 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:13:51 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:14:03 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:14:14 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@80-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:15:26 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:16:41 jmbr [~jmbr@23.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:16:51 Xach: to complete that, one must read the notes of `case', where it states it is equivalent to a form that uses `member' for testing the test-key against a list of keys 17:17:02 which i didn't 17:18:56 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[~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:49:48 -!- ehu` is now known as ehu 18:51:46 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva] 18:52:11 Joreji [~thomas@80-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:52:48 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-3-179.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:52:49 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:53:50 jfincher [~jfincher@nat/google/x-rtqfoelpgqmeokft] has joined #lisp 18:54:05 interested in a bit of lisp archaeology: when was destructuring-bind invented? 18:56:10 -!- billitch [~billitch@tru75-4-82-227-168-143.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:21 During one of the standards processes, I believe. 18:56:24 same time as car/cdr ? 18:57:16 jfincher: Look in the hyperspec, and then the standardization issue. 18:57:17 milanj: doubtul :P 18:57:18 Someone pointed out that it would be useful to be able to do a macro-like arglist destructuring without involving a macro, and that the parsing code would already be in all implementations... 18:57:21 *doubtful 18:57:34 jfincher: Looks like 1989 or so. 19:03:04 jfincher: Did you faint? 19:03:14 wasn't CL standardized in 1984? Did it not have destructuring-bind when it was first standardized? 19:03:31 jfincher: The standard is from 1994. 19:03:38 huh. 19:03:48 The ANSI standard is from '94. The original standard is from '84. 19:03:53 ah, phew 19:04:02 I'd hate to have completely missed a digit in my memory 19:04:19 ISTR the original standard not having destructuring-bind, but I couldn't be bothered to drag my copy off the shelf to check. 19:08:11 jso [~user@ip68-111-169-131.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:06 OnLisp mentions it was new in CLtL2. 19:09:28 -!- leo2007` [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.19] 19:17:05 konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has joined #lisp 19:17:52 nyef: The Evolution of Lisp, Gabriel & Steele, IIRC 19:19:22 nyef: nm 19:19:25 it's not 19:20:31 mk2` [~user@159.92.64.121] has joined #lisp 19:20:46 -!- MaxMuen [maxmuen@kudu.in-berlin.de] has quit [Quit: bye bye] 19:22:16 brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 19:27:12 darkestkhan [~darkestkh@188.33.188.106] has joined #lisp 19:31:07 m00kie [~mag@mm-48-239-84-93.leased.line.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 19:31:47 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-131-26.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:33:22 mega1: you going to the meeting? 19:33:25 -!- m00kie [~mag@mm-48-239-84-93.leased.line.mgts.by] has left #lisp 19:34:16 slyrus__ [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:31 francogrex [~user@109.130.112.205] has joined #lisp 19:38:59 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-11-96.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:28 segyr [~terje@ti0014a380-1619.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:41:36 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:41:42 hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:43:53 -!- darkestkhan [~darkestkh@188.33.188.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:44:07 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:46:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@80-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:48:40 Joreji [~thomas@69-125.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:49:26 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-106.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:49:50 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-106.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:49:56 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-106.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 19:50:07 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-106.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:50:42 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-106.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:53:10 -!- benny [~benny@i577A30EB.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:53:35 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:54:02 -!- segyr [~terje@ti0014a380-1619.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:23 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-106.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:54:50 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-106.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:55:17 segyr [~terje@ti0014a380-1619.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:56:22 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:57:21 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 20:00:12 -!- guther_ [guther@irc.kunsmann.eu] has quit [Quit: Shutting down.] 20:00:37 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:42 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-9-31.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:03:13 maxmuen [maxmuen@kudu.in-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 20:03:14 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:12 are there any conventions for convenience slot-definitions in CLOS? i mean, something to stem the tide of (x :accessor class-x :initarg :x). 20:05:43 jpanest: Yes, there are a bunch of bad ideas along those lines. 20:06:02 Xach: that's why i said conventions =) 20:06:19 other than emacs/editor functions to write them out for you 20:06:40 my convention is to not care. 20:06:41 carlvoncosel [~michaelk@mak.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:07:01 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:07:33 *Xach* has recently grown to love the ability to add extra readers of different names in the same slot definition 20:07:58 Xach: ? is this for some compatibility issue? 20:08:02 -!- maxmuen is now known as MaxMuen 20:08:24 Xach: and its not the ability, i just mean that there are a few defaults that cover 90% of my cases 20:08:49 jpanest: no, it's for defining classes that participate in a protocol concisely. 20:09:22 i can have the "natural" slot name and then readers or accessors that implement some protocol for instances of that class without writing a separate method. 20:09:47 hmm 20:09:48 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:33 I've been defining my protocols at the package boundaries, and anything inside the package can just bloody well use SLOT-VALUE. 20:11:01 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 20:11:55 -!- MaxMuen [maxmuen@kudu.in-berlin.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:14:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:16:16 guther_ [guther@irc.kunsmann.eu] has joined #lisp 20:17:39 rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:48 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:18:46 -!- TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has quit [Quit: TheEnd2012] 20:18:48 jdz [~jdz@host15-111-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:19:02 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:23:30 ak70 [~ak70@user050.195.users.nextweb.net.mt] has joined #lisp 20:23:56 -!- segyr [~terje@ti0014a380-1619.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:27:46 -!- ak70 [~ak70@user050.195.users.nextweb.net.mt] has left #lisp 20:29:02 Xach: I missed 20:29:03 it 20:29:18 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757fb6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:23 was going to, but too much stuff hapenning at the same time 20:32:15 vilfredo [~wilfred@83.166.180.110] has joined #lisp 20:33:19 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:34 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.109.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:36:59 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-180-6.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:37:04 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:07 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@hmbg-5f762b6b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:37:43 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.112.205] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:38:53 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:40:30 -!- carlvoncosel [~michaelk@mak.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:41:03 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:49 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-151-210.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:42:03 mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 20:42:08 -!- konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:42:48 bperryman [~bperryman@cpc2-bexl1-0-0-cust928.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:55 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:43:55 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:28 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:04 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:06 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:45:13 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:46:23 -!- mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:46:37 -!- bperryman [~bperryman@cpc2-bexl1-0-0-cust928.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:47:58 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 20:48:18 leo2007` [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:57 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-191.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:49:55 -!- jso [~user@ip68-111-169-131.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:49:57 Can I say hunchentoot is a common lisp application server? 20:50:55 Sure! Your next question is, "would it be a true statement". 20:51:19 ;) 20:51:29 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:39 hmmm... hunchentoot itself doesn't seem to be made into such. UCW's is closer to that, I think. Overall, I doubt that there's *any* project that works the same as known "application servers" 20:56:50 ,ucw 20:57:02 minion: ucw? 20:57:03 ucw: UnCommon Web is a web framework. http://www.cliki.net/ucw 20:58:52 nyef: thanks. 21:01:54 leo2007`: http://ifelipe.net/ <--- will probably help you more than most UCW links you will find :P 21:02:15 there is one more page but I don't remember the link 21:02:46 p_l|backup: that's excellent. 21:03:21 -!- guther_ [guther@irc.kunsmann.eu] has quit [Quit: Shutting down.] 21:05:34 p_l|backup: is ucw the best choice for a web framework in common lisp? 21:05:50 hmm... I wouldn't say that 21:06:08 what are other options that I should also look at? 21:06:16 I'm reading http://www.cliki.net/web. 21:06:17 It's a fine choice, but IMHO the web frameworks for CL are rather fragmented and there's no clear-cut leader 21:06:35 quite a lot of people simply get hunchentoot and use it directly 21:06:48 (that's what I'm probably going to do for my current project) 21:07:04 is it easy to find a place to host common lisp? 21:08:09 leo2007`: depends on what you're used to. 21:08:34 As someone who played with Rails before, I didn't find it harder to get CL-capable hosting 21:08:56 minion: common lisp hosting 21:08:57 common lisp is good 21:09:13 if you're used to PHP hosting, you're in for rude awakening 21:09:29 urandom__ [~user@p548A7F5C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:46 brb 21:10:17 Sierka1 [~ksierka@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:19 benny` [~benny@i577A3E20.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:11:43 -!- benny` is now known as benny 21:12:13 p_l|backup: thanks. 21:12:32 guther_ [guther@web.kunsmann.eu] has joined #lisp 21:14:47 leo2007: tech.coop? 21:18:12 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:18:21 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 21:18:22 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:18:53 as for Lisp hosting, anything running on current Xen is fine, the same for dedicated systems 21:19:06 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-106.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:19:12 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-106.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:19:15 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-106.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 21:19:21 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-106.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:19:25 tech.coop, slicehost, linode, just to name a few 21:19:48 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:20:15 http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-produktmatrix-eq/ <--- dedicated servers in what seems to be rather good price 21:21:32 Or you could say "go with tech.coop, since it keeps drewc going". 21:21:48 true 21:21:50 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.67.131] has joined #lisp 21:22:14 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 21:22:21 I had rather good experience with tech.coop, even if my experience with my employment back then didn't end up as stellar (unrelated to tech.coop, fortunately) 21:23:28 I have a question about clsql on linux with AMD64 21:23:44 it seems that it is an order of magnitude slower than running in on a 32 bit linux box 21:24:05 using uffi or with a patched cffi-uffi-compat layer 21:24:42 my 32bit machine will insert 1000 rows in the time it takes my 64 bit machine to insert 10 or so 21:25:21 -!- hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:30 does anyone have experience with this? 21:26:20 darkestkhan [~darkestkh@94.254.140.161] has joined #lisp 21:28:48 darkestkhan1 [~darkestkh@94.254.182.98] has joined #lisp 21:28:53 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:30:28 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:31:09 darkestkhan2 [~darkestkh@109.243.100.18] has joined #lisp 21:32:07 -!- darkestkhan [~darkestkh@94.254.140.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:32:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-125.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:55 The_Jon_Smith: no idea, but somehow I'd consider switching to other DB libraries... especially ones that don't rely on FFI 21:33:03 Joreji [~thomas@69-125.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:33:59 -!- darkestkhan1 [~darkestkh@94.254.182.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:35:43 -!- navigator [~navigator@p54896993.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 21:36:15 Wasn't there a postgresql interface somewhere? 21:36:47 *nyef* waits for the inevitable "but I'm using MySQL", for which the only thing that can be offered is condolences. 21:37:13 -!- leo2007` [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:37:50 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:37:51 *p_l|backup* highfives nyef 21:38:01 -!- darkestkhan2 [~darkestkh@109.243.100.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:38:08 nyef: there's a CL interface to mysql. a guy posted it to c.l.l. a few months ago 21:38:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.67.131] has quit [] 21:38:30 Really? GPL, or did he find another way around the license issue? 21:38:45 fe[nl]ix: we will politely ignore it as we convert more and more people to "real" rdbms :P 21:39:17 nyef: what licence issue ? he reimplemented the protocol reading mysql docs 21:39:21 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:39:56 Right. There was some crazy claim in the MySQL protocol docs that since the docs were GPL, any implementation had to be GPL. 21:40:07 bollocks 21:40:26 Yeah, that was the general consensus, along with "not worth the potential legal hassle". 21:42:07 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:42:07 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:42:07 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 21:42:23 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:42:25 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-249-146.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:35 ok 21:43:42 *p_l|backup* considers "bollocks" the proper altitude to MySQL 21:44:39 darkestkhan [~darkestkh@109.243.197.33] has joined #lisp 21:44:39 I won't use unless I find myself in the rare situation of neededing a relational DB without ACID 21:44:51 is there such a situation? 21:45:01 and why not use ACID, even if you don't need it? 21:45:15 nyef: there were a couple of postgresql interfaces in cl... postmodern, pg, I think there's one in clsql, too 21:45:27 kleppari: it would be unwise to assume that it doesn't exist. And ACID semantics can slow you A LOT 21:45:41 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-151-210.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:46:13 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:44 transactions are a nice feature that prevent you from having to think about concurrency. 21:46:49 Does MySQL maintain inter-table constraints yet? 21:47:14 mostly because the locks they hold while you write your data-update queries will serialize everything in your app (: 21:47:50 antifuchs: till you handle a lot of data that doesn't really need it, and transactions start to become a bottleneck 21:48:08 p_l|backup: it's what I was trying to imply 21:48:31 (which is, btw, why the infamous "bank account" example is horribly wrong, as banks don't use ACID semantics for transactions) 21:48:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:48:55 if you have many things going on simultaneously, chances are that the one harmless transaction you don't suspect of causing any problems will keep everything else from running 21:49:00 (bonus points for deadlocks) 21:49:09 haha 21:49:34 nyef: supposedly in 4.x or 5.x they added real support for foreign keys 21:49:48 however, one can still encounter 3.23 in the wild 21:49:49 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-92-70.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 21:49:56 WHICH IS A HORROR 21:50:48 -!- Krystof [~csr21@78.146.225.217] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:50:50 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 21:51:02 as long as you get dates like "0000-00-00 00:00" in datetime columns... (: 21:51:50 "Lisp, Araneida, MacOS X, Postgres"? The new LAMP stack? 21:52:11 araneida, srsly? (: 21:52:25 (it's not /bad/, but why use it if you can have hunchentoot?) 21:52:26 Needed a web server that fit the initials. 21:52:32 ah 21:52:34 And there's no H in LAMP. 21:52:37 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:52:38 yeah, that is hmm. 21:52:47 <_3b> you could make it LUMP :) 21:52:47 unfortunate. we need to rename hunchentoot, then 21:52:52 Also couldn't think of an OS beginning with A. 21:52:53 or you could use aserve (: 21:52:54 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-207-201.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:52:57 -!- Sierka1 [~ksierka@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52:57 *nyef* shudders. 21:53:00 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-207-201.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:53:21 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.182.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:53:26 hey, at least /that/ is still being maintained 21:53:37 nyef: AIX 21:54:20 Sierka1 [~ksierka@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:11 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.63.142] has joined #lisp 21:56:05 "SBCL, Hunchentoot, Linux, Emacs, Postgres"? SHLEP? No, wait... That's not a good idea. 21:57:00 haha 21:57:25 -!- prip [~foo@host150-135-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:57:57 nyef: AmigaOS ? 21:57:58 Hunchentoot Emacs Linux Postgres SBCL 21:58:02 HELPS 21:58:29 ... Hunh. I've actually -used- AIX briefly. 21:58:31 -!- Sierka1 [~ksierka@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:58:36 sonds fine to me 21:58:52 And had a bad tendency to invisibly corrupt configuration files by fat-fingering vi. 21:59:08 nyef: what ? 21:59:24 CFFI Hunchentoot Unix Mcclim Postgres SBCL 21:59:28 What-what? I blame the terminal configuration more than anything. 21:59:46 slyrus__: For involving CFFI and Mcclim? Yes. 21:59:49 vi on propriatery unices is.. pain 22:00:22 Oh, and it was a TELNET connection, not SSH, so no chance of SFTP. 22:00:49 And from a windows box, too, so even if SFTP was an option, there wouldn't be a usable local editor... 22:01:15 kleppari: maybe because you think "ViM" when you access "Vi" 22:02:22 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:03:17 vim on linuxes is pain if you have finger-memory from vi on proprietary unixes (: 22:03:35 I liked the HP-UX one, actually. 22:03:41 Sierka1 [~ksierka@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:12 ksierka_ [~ksierka@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:01 Krystof [~csr21@78.146.236.83] has joined #lisp 22:06:57 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:15 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.238] has joined #lisp 22:09:20 -!- anonymouse89 [~anonymous@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:10:01 prip [~foo@host36-126-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:10:06 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:23 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:10:29 antifuchs: can't you remap keys? or is it when using someone else's box 22:10:46 p_l|backup: perhaps. That doesn't make it less of a pain, it makes it an even more obvious pain :) 22:10:59 Adamant: We had the key-remapping discussion earlier today. 22:11:22 nyef: fair enough. 22:11:29 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7F5C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:34 -!- Sierka1 [~ksierka@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has left #lisp 22:11:50 Adamant: my problem is that I don't care enough to go through this. it's far easier to be annoyed by the subtle differences (: 22:12:20 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:13:25 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:13:33 antifuchs: fair enough. I think vim is relatively easy to program a mode for, though 22:13:49 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-95-133.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:13:50 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:14:12 has an extensible language and all, although it sucks worse than elisp 22:14:24 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:16:01 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.238] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:16:26 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.238] has joined #lisp 22:19:20 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 22:19:43 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:22 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.238] has joined #lisp 22:20:48 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:21:23 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.238] has joined #lisp 22:25:15 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.238] has quit [Client Quit] 22:26:42 -!- brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:29:23 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:38 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:29:41 -!- ksierka_ [~ksierka@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:29:44 -!- kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30:19 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:24 kslt2 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:52 -!- kslt2 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:32:25 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5B284F6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:33:42 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:59 -!- kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:34:09 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-92-70.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:34:34 -!- vilfredo [~wilfred@83.166.180.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:39 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:34:57 dreish [~dreish@2002:cf8a:2fad:0:21f:5bff:fe35:ae0d] has joined #lisp 22:35:06 kslt2 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:32 gonzojive [~red@209.117.47.253] has joined #lisp 22:39:32 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C47C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:40:33 -!- jdz [~jdz@host15-111-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:41:23 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:44:09 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:49:09 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:49:59 forth must be a good thing for compiler developers... 22:50:20 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:50:29 It can be, but it's really more for writing bootloaders. 22:51:52 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3E20.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:56 heh 22:53:31 *Xach* finds a case where LispWorks is even more nitpickily pedantic than SBCL! 22:53:52 (Speaking as someone who wrote his own standalone Forth and then used it to load a stripped-down hacked SBCL core on bare metal x86.) 22:54:39 (defmethod (setf documentation) :around (value (obj symbol) (doc-type (eql 'function))) ...) triggers an error, i presume because of 11.1.2.1.2 clause 19 22:54:55 nyef: It is kinda sad fact there about the forth. 22:55:29 nyef: Why did you need the forth there for the sbcl loading? 22:56:39 oops, not the setf version 22:57:26 schmrkc: I didn't, but it was convenient. 22:58:32 It was more a case of "oh, look, I have a programming environment here that has ring-0 privileges and can read stuff from the disk" than anything else. 22:59:06 Meant I could write the core header parser and whatnot in a higher level language than assembler. 23:00:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-125.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:00:46 nyef: Very good reason :) 23:01:10 schmrkc: have you seen XOOS? 23:01:24 clhs 11.1.2.1.2 23:01:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/11_abab.htm 23:01:51 it's set of routines on top of OpenFirmware that transform it into operating system for the OLPC XO-1 23:01:53 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:02:05 there's afaik even some smalltalk clone running on top 23:02:14 Neat. 23:02:33 At one point I considered trying to do something like that for a mac, but that was long ago. 23:02:57 and Forth is simple enough that FreeBSD uses it for bootloader even on x86 23:02:59 benny [~benny@i577A3E20.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:04:53 Mmm. It's the sort of civilized thing to do that every so often surprises me that Linux -doesn't- do. 23:05:52 p_l|backup: Hmmm.. I haven't seen it, but yeeeah. iirc its actually squeak st running on it. Complete with etoys and all :) 23:07:58 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:27 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:55 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:59 -!- clog [nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:17 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:49 Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-21-3.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:14:41 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:53 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:33 fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has joined #lisp 23:17:15 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 23:18:04 -!- Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-21-3.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 23:20:03 p_l|backup: I'm a forthhea. Im saddened by how the world is wicked and mean to forth. Now I'll jump into my timemachine here back to a better world were every selfrespecting geek solderd stuff to his motherboard and hacker forth. 23:20:49 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:52 schmrkc: that world didn't completely disappear 23:21:04 these days, we have even more fun toys. Like FPGAs ^_^ 23:21:12 *p_l|backup* is building his own CPU ^_^ 23:22:27 Meh. Not as cool as the guy who built his own 6502 out of discrete logic. :-P 23:22:32 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:24:43 -!- vandemar [rings@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:24:43 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:24:43 -!- Guest57074 [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:24:43 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:24:43 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:24:43 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:24:43 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:24:43 -!- qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:24:43 -!- MikeSeth [~me@unaffiliated/mikeseth] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:25:56 -!- gonzojive [~red@209.117.47.253] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 23:27:21 nyef: till you build a complete RISC workstation out of those :P 23:27:27 hacked even 23:27:27 hmm. this keyboard 23:27:28 Whatever happened to the olpc anyway? 23:28:06 www.homebrewcpu.com . now there's awesome 23:28:53 vandemar [rings@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 23:28:53 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 23:28:53 Guest57074 [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has joined #lisp 23:28:53 Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:53 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 23:28:53 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 23:28:53 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 23:28:53 qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has joined #lisp 23:28:53 MikeSeth [~me@unaffiliated/mikeseth] has joined #lisp 23:28:55 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:30:07 p_l|backup: This more fun toys these days, while true, totally ruins my "things were a lot better before" so Ill ignore these things. 23:30:14 jso [~user@ip68-111-169-131.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:34 heh 23:31:03 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 23:31:12 mind you, I'm building the whole thing nearly from scratch (the chosen ISA was not yet made into any hw) including all software :) 23:31:32 and the XOOS project is kinda about returning some of those "old times" 23:31:41 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 23:32:00 Sounds like a whole bunch of fun. Just hobby project or planning on deploying these things? 23:32:05 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925385290.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:33:08 mine or the XOOS? 23:33:25 Preferably, I'd get my project into "normal" silicon instead of FPGAs 23:33:42 and build several workstation out of that 23:33:51 yours :) 23:33:55 very cool 23:34:50 I found few foundries that can do manufacturing on cheap or even free for academic projects 23:34:59 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B199.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:35:25 nice! 23:35:34 anything out of the ordinary with your design? 23:35:41 -!- kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35:41 -!- kslt2 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:36:08 schmrkc: other than having unholy amount of registers? 23:36:09 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 23:36:20 so far, nothing. 23:36:43 But I was considering making an FPGA-based version that can be reprogrammed easily, thus making it into "make your own workstation" system 23:37:11 so a quick reprogramming and suddenly you have hw Forth CPU instead of the one I'm working on etc. 23:37:24 the cpu I had chosen to implement, MMIX, is rather close to Alpha in design 23:37:38 unholy amount == ? :) 23:37:51 sounds like fun 23:38:35 I have been playing some with this 40 core forth cpu that chuck had some company produce. It is... quite problematic for my mind to work with really :) 23:39:00 I was hoping on doing some audiostuff, but it is 18 bits and that's not purfect for audio 23:39:08 p_l|backup: You're planning to port SBCL to this once you get the hardware running, right? 23:40:11 :D 23:40:24 or face eternal banishment from #lisp 23:40:31 schmrkc: MMIX1.0 has ~256 registers addressable from instructions, after reserving space for various special/control registers, there are 226 general purpose registers. Those registers are actually a slide of register stack, which in MMIX1.0 was suggested to be 1024 registers or more :) 23:40:59 ok. that is unholy. 23:41:17 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:40 the actual addressable registers vary, but the minimum specified is 32 hw registers (for simplified designs) and subroutine call mechanism allows uses a variable register window size 23:42:08 oh, and it has support for returning multiple values 23:42:48 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:54 hoh nice :) 23:43:07 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 23:43:23 nyef: sure 23:43:34 nyef: I mentioned it once already, didn't I :D 23:43:35 Fixed multiple values or variable multiple values? 23:44:16 variable 23:44:39 though with some limitations, given that they have to be reachable by the caller 23:44:43 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:44:52 rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:52 Right, right. Hrm... 23:44:55 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45:14 Maybe one of these days I should actually -read- MMIXware. 23:45:17 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:35 -!- kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:45:51 p_l|backup: when's the new TAOCP coming out? 23:45:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: :d] 23:46:53 Didn't the 8052 have a large number of registers too? 23:48:06 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:48:42 I guess not. But some old little 8-bit cpu had a large number of registers. 23:49:44 rtoym: afaik some old cpu had a weird memory addressing that caused it to be called a cpu with many many registers and little memory or something like that 23:50:15 execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has joined #lisp 23:50:18 That might be it. Can't remember anymore. 23:50:20 PIC 23:50:30 -!- symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:51:46 symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 23:52:02 Never read anything about PIC before, so I don't think that was it. 23:53:46 -!- sepp2k [~sexy@p548CC5AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: sepp2k] 23:56:54 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp