00:00:12 clhs defvar 00:00:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpar.htm 00:00:52 So in general you'd use defparameter, unless you don't want to reset it if it's already set. 00:00:54 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:28 i see 00:01:55 thx 00:02:48 can i do multi conditional? if ((member a list)) and (member a list2)) 00:03:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:03:13 patapra: the operator is ALWAYS in first position. 00:03:21 (and (member ...) (member ...)) 00:03:43 patapra: the operator is ALWAYS in first position. 00:03:45 patapra: the operator is ALWAYS in first position. 00:03:46 clhs always 00:03:46 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for always. 00:04:00 ALWAYS in the first position! 00:04:02 *Xach* updates zcdb, so everyone who emailed him to complain about the accidental reference to zs3 will be happier 00:04:25 in the first position? 00:04:30 Yes, always. 00:04:33 oh 00:04:48 haha i thought you meant the ALWAYS statement 00:05:02 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-232-122-248.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:05:04 (IS (the operator) (always (in (first position)))). 00:05:39 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 00:05:54 patapra: and you see, LOOP is a little special in Lisp, because it has a lot of syntactic suggar with keywords such as FOR, DO, IN, WHILE, etc, that give meaning to the LOOP but that are not in the first position... 00:06:25 This is not typical of lisp operators, that have usually the simplier syntax of (operator arguments...). 00:06:47 tama [~tama@2002:61e6:72c5:6:21f:3aff:fe49:2d91] has joined #lisp 00:07:15 well if it is infix were converting to wouldnt it be: (operator (the is) (in (always (first (the position))) ? 00:07:29 ;P 00:08:45 Here, 'operator is subject, 'is is verb. The operator is the verb. 00:09:01 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:13:11 patapra: once you're done with PCL, you could probably profit from PAIP. 00:13:24 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:36 -!- tama [~tama@2002:61e6:72c5:6:21f:3aff:fe49:2d91] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:14:09 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:15:04 yes! im getting closer! 00:15:24 pjb: ive got the pdf for paip open 00:15:37 ive just waited a lil too late to read through all of it 00:15:45 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:15:48 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-135-255.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:15:57 Better late than never. 00:16:12 i read the intro to lisp chapter 00:16:22 ive got an ai assignment to code! 00:17:03 ive done some haskell before so the paradigm is not completely foreign to me; its just been a while and the syntax and constructs are new 00:17:26 -!- mdh [~user@cpe-98-155-85-188.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:17:32 patapra: If your AI assignment is eliza or gps then PAIP will be *perfect* 00:17:40 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:17:45 you ever been to cracker barrel? 00:17:51 minion: tell patapra about spels 00:17:51 patapra: please look at spels: Casting SPELs in Lisp, an introduction to macros, is at http://www.lisperati.com/casting.html 00:18:07 patapra: this would be the big difference between Haskell and Lisp: the macros. 00:18:27 (and of course the early type checking, but this is less important). 00:19:35 my assignment is solving the 14-peg 15 hole triangle game seen at cracker barrel 00:19:41 Here I was hoping for a "but lisp ain't functional" 00:19:53 itll be cool once im done 00:20:05 patapra: Until this very moment I have never heard of "cracker barrel". Google suggests it is some restaurant :) 00:20:23 must be a southern thing 00:20:28 *thang 00:20:31 I don't know. I live in the south. 00:20:45 a texas thing? 00:20:50 http://i.imgur.com/s9i65.jpg 00:20:56 patapra: Maybe a US thing. 00:21:12 patapra: the haskell paradigm is very different from idiomatic lisp. 00:21:14 oh yeah, i forgot there are nations other than the us 00:21:16 Kovensky: Now that's an AI puzzle I like :) 00:21:25 patapra: That's ok. We usually forget about the US :) 00:21:25 lol 00:21:38 *Kovensky* will have to study prolog for a test next week <_< 00:21:42 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:55 patapra: you can write haskellishly in lisp, but you can do that in C, too. 00:22:13 Kovensky: What litterature is used for prolog studies these days? Also you make it sound like a bad thing :) :) 00:22:40 I'd be more interested in it if I felt it was worth it 00:22:43 Kovensky: If that cat there grows up anything like our cat of the same colour then you're in for a very meowy surprise. 00:22:59 like, if the professor lecturing on prolog wasn't the same one that kept making basic beginner mistakes on his C classes 00:23:22 Well maybe he is more of a prolog guy and finds C strange. (: 00:23:30 or accidentally write an entire pascal program (lol) in dev-c++ (LOL) and spend 3 minutes trying to figure out why was it full of syntax errors 00:24:08 (that was in C class btw) 00:24:35 and also if I felt I'd ever use prolog after this semester ends ._. 00:24:53 oh dev-c++ is some IDE :) I was confused why on earth one would write C++ in C class. 00:24:56 bah! 00:25:09 prolog is superfun. Use it! 00:25:26 oh dev-c++ is some IDE :) <-- that has been abandonware since 2004 00:25:32 oh ok. 00:25:51 *schmrkc* hands Kovensky some emacs. 00:26:00 C-x C-c 00:26:04 not time for that right now 00:26:04 :> 00:26:20 Kovensky: I haven't really coded much C the last 10 years. I don't keep track of these things ;) 00:26:29 heh 00:26:38 I haven't really coded much C either, until gsoc this year 00:26:47 my project is still unfinished though ._. 00:27:19 finish it. then celebrate with installing sicstus. 00:27:32 Kovensky: Also hey. Where would erlang be with no prolog? :) 00:27:45 sicstus? 00:27:53 it's a prolog (: 00:28:00 lol 00:28:14 *Kovensky* wonders what'd be a good prolog reading material 00:28:23 I probably wouldn't have to study if I hadn't skipped all prolog classes lol 00:28:40 the art of prolog is pretty good. 00:29:15 and that bratko book. hmm... Prolog for AI maybe it was called. 00:30:01 I feel that his test will be about syntax at best 00:31:04 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has joined #lisp 00:31:28 tama [~tama@2002:61c1:7e17:6:21f:3aff:fe49:2d91] has joined #lisp 00:32:13 Kovensky: http://www.learnprolognow.org/ 00:32:13 Strange. 00:33:14 Kovensky: You could redefine the syntax. That'd make it moar fun. 00:34:23 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 00:34:25 another sad thing about my college is that nobody knows anything about perl or lisp :( 00:34:41 it is a miracle when someone has at least knows of lisp's existence 00:34:46 but I still didn't find anyone that knows of perl 00:36:33 Kovensky: (: perl would somewhat make sense.. lisp I dunno... when will you ever use it after you're done with college / lisp class ;) 00:37:02 I kinda wish we studied lisp, really ._. 00:37:16 a single SICP class on Scheme taught me more about CS than these 3 years at college 00:37:30 nice 00:37:56 -!- tama [~tama@2002:61c1:7e17:6:21f:3aff:fe49:2d91] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:39:02 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:09 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:40:17 -!- mk2` [~user@evanspc2.rai.umds.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:23 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:11 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.101.41] has joined #lisp 00:50:50 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-134-127.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 00:52:02 tama [~tama@2002:61e8:281c:6:21f:3aff:fe49:2d91] has joined #lisp 00:56:59 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:12:43 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.51] has joined #lisp 01:14:53 fufoobar [guther@92-55-242-227.net.pbthawe.eu] has joined #lisp 01:15:41 -!- fufoobar [guther@92-55-242-227.net.pbthawe.eu] has left #lisp 01:16:29 -!- tama [~tama@2002:61e8:281c:6:21f:3aff:fe49:2d91] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:18:54 plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-230-191.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 01:22:52 drdo` [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 01:24:19 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:25:04 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.101.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:28:10 housemouse [~user@184-76-24-220.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:39 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:34 -!- patapra [~patapra@67.143.233.37] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:42:06 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 01:42:29 andrew007 [~andrew_zu@58.62.84.177] has joined #lisp 01:43:31 -!- ysph [~user@fl-76-3-1-178.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:44:32 schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BC8FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:33 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:48:28 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:48:45 -!- schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BC8FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:48:59 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 01:50:38 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7257.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:40 -!- brickhazel [~brickhaze@63-144-132-78.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:55:23 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:57:47 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:09 schmrkc: the only place I *don't* use lisp is college. 01:58:10 :P 02:02:08 -!- sytse [~sytse@2001:888:1817:0:226:18ff:fe65:ac7b] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:05:29 sytse [~sytse@2001:888:1817:0:226:18ff:fe65:ac7b] has joined #lisp 02:06:52 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 02:07:18 brickhazel [~brickhaze@63-144-132-78.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:08 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:12 plediii_ [~plediii@99.163.113.37] has joined #lisp 02:12:21 -!- plediii_ [~plediii@99.163.113.37] has quit [Client Quit] 02:12:48 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx53-1-2.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:06 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-106-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 02:14:08 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.215.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:14:50 timack [~tim@hlfx53-2a-233.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 02:14:55 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-230-191.rice.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:04 Ralith: Excellent stuff :) I don't think this is true for most people working in the code production industry though :) 02:17:51 schmrkc: if you're only learning skills that you'll go out and perform exactly the same way you did in school, you should be going to a vocational institute. 02:18:38 the typical rationale, as I understand it, for teaching scheme in univ is that it's a clean and easy way to study pure CS issues without irrelevant concerns getting in the way, is quite rational imo. 02:19:32 -!- andrew007 [~andrew_zu@58.62.84.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:59 andrew007 [~andrew_zu@219.136.142.250] has joined #lisp 02:28:14 -!- housemouse [~user@184-76-24-220.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:28:36 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:32:29 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:33:37 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 02:38:27 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:49 Ralith: Well that was the issue with prolog that Kovensky put forth. That after college he would not use it for anything. I would think that for most people this is also true for lisp. 02:45:49 -!- ost`` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:20 ost`` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 02:46:51 Ralith: But you're quite correct in scheme being quite the lovely for much this reason... did not MIT abandon it in favor of python though? Iirc the rationale was something like "no one does stuff this way no more and python has all the nice libs". 02:47:09 schmrkc: and the replies I just made explain why "I won't use this at work" is not a reasonable objection. 02:47:23 MIT did do that and I believe they were wrong to. 02:48:09 python is extremely trendy in the mainstream, and it may have been in their interests for reasons related to that to switch to python 02:48:15 ikki [~ikki@189.139.215.161] has joined #lisp 02:48:16 That's what I meant though. "I won't have no need for this after class" is no reason to not do stuff in prolog :) 02:48:22 prolog is superfun and all. 02:48:39 but I don't think MIT's decision serves the goal of teaching computer science as well as possible at all. 02:49:01 it's arguably in opposition to that goal. 02:49:11 I'm not sure I understood the reason for them switching correctly but it gives me the feel that they're switching from CS into becoming a programmer factory. 02:49:48 They'll pry my lisp and forth from my dead hands though! 02:50:15 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.101.41] has joined #lisp 02:51:55 I haven't ever really used python. For all I know it is a perfect fit for CS :) 02:52:50 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-214-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:55:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.215.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:57:58 schmrkc: python is perfectly usable for most common cases, but as I understand it doesn't have nearly as clean or powerful a design as your average lisp. 02:58:10 schmrkc: it's no Java, though, so I'd hesitate to call MIT a factory just yet. 02:58:41 It seems to me MIT has never been in CS, but rather in EE. 02:59:02 Perhaps for EE (and nowadays robot toys), it makes sense to use python. 02:59:08 that makes sense to me. 02:59:13 *schmrkc* grrrs. 02:59:21 insofar as C isn't more appropriate for an EE. 02:59:24 What I would like to know is in what language Big Dog is written in? I'd guess C++... 02:59:28 if EE is what they do I will call them and inform 'em about forth ;) 02:59:28 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:02:01 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 03:02:49 ikki [~ikki@189.139.215.161] has joined #lisp 03:04:07 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-81-14.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:19 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:04:33 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-81-14.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:43 jso [~user@ip68-111-169-131.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:04 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-81-14.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:34 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:13:50 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:15:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.215.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:20:32 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:21:19 ikki [~ikki@189.139.215.161] has joined #lisp 03:29:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.215.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:30:29 echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 03:30:43 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.101.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:31:19 ikki [~ikki@189.139.215.161] has joined #lisp 03:34:31 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has joined #lisp 03:35:43 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:50 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.51] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 03:39:38 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.60.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:42:48 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.215.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:47:23 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:47:38 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:48:13 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 03:49:13 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:49:26 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-155-233.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:17 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:51:06 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:22 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 03:54:10 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:56:00 Hm, what should I google for if I want the docs on the syntax "#+", as in "#+sbcl"? 03:56:40 adeht [void@91.121.18.93] has joined #lisp 03:57:09 svk_: don't google. 03:57:16 Directly go to the syntax chapter of clhs. 03:58:37 ikki [~ikki@189.139.215.161] has joined #lisp 04:00:01 cpc26 [cpc26@pilot.trilug.org] has joined #lisp 04:00:50 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/02_d.htm 04:00:52 Aha, a read-time conditional 04:00:59 Thanks 04:01:18 -!- davazp [~user@184.Red-79-154-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:28 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-142-111.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:03:08 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.215.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:06:46 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-232-122-248.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:50 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:10:05 JonSmith [~jon@c-67-189-219-38.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:13 I have a clsql def-view-class that looks like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/114902 04:14:29 I would like to restrict the joins based on another parameter in the member table, is there a way to do this? 04:14:54 for example, a where clause 04:17:55 svk_: 'the docs' are almost always best in the CLHS, and you should have that integrated with your IDE 04:19:16 Well, I'm a newbie, so I do like googling for something a bit gentler.. googling "read-time conditional" got me what I wanted in that case 04:20:47 svk_: the CLHS is in fact very gentle. 04:20:52 you might be surprised 04:21:02 what jargon it uses is clearly defined. 04:21:10 i like CLTL for gentle 04:21:19 although sometimes it is incorrect :-) 04:21:29 but mostly it is right 04:22:42 Ralith: I don't quite understand what you're arguing with me about, I've solved my problem using the hint from pjb above.. you're arguing that I should have solved in a different way? 04:23:06 svk_: ...I'm arguing with you? 04:23:18 I'm just suggesting that in the future you might want to look to the CLHS first. 04:23:25 The CLHS is excellent for rigorous, I do use it.. just hadn't found that particular chapter in this case 04:23:29 it's very good about crossreferencing. 04:23:35 what IDE do you use? 04:23:39 Sorry, tone transmits poorly over IRC, you know 04:23:52 Emacs, but I'm not a native (I usually use vim) 04:24:05 with slime? 04:24:08 Yes 04:25:05 put point on a symbol and C-c C-d h 04:25:08 very, very useful 04:25:44 though that doesn't appear to actually work for #+, oddly. 04:26:47 I'd heard of that for functions and such, wasn't aware that it would work on what looked like basic syntax.. if so, nice! 04:27:08 Hopefully I won't be confused about basic syntax forever, though 04:27:33 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 04:29:30 04:41:07 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:41:45 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx53-2a-233.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:53:28 Phoodus [foo@97-124-108-123.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:38 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 05:04:33 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 05:05:41 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-119-238.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:18 -!- konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:06:54 Good morning everyone! 05:09:08 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:09:27 ryaether [~ryan@173-26-124-96.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 05:18:39 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f727fbf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:12 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 05:22:55 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:22:55 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 05:22:55 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 05:23:38 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:23:48 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-63-83-105.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 05:28:28 -!- nullkuhl [~nullkuhl@196.221.13.149] has left #lisp 05:30:05 maturin [~maturin@c-69-181-19-136.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] 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[~leo@r190-135-25-155.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 06:49:13 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.184.107] has joined #lisp 06:51:32 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-22-105.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:02:48 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.60.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:03:15 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva] 07:03:59 http://i.imgur.com/qBTpq.png 07:10:05 haha 07:14:43 -!- ryaether [~ryan@173-26-124-96.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 07:16:26 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.101.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:16:34 -!- andrew007 [~andrew_zu@219.136.142.250] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:17:02 andrew007 [~andrew_zu@58.62.84.177] has joined #lisp 07:20:16 darkmag [~vfalico@ip-94-112-36-51.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 07:21:58 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-19-43.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:25:08 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.184.107] has 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#lisp 07:54:34 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:57:15 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 08:00:25 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-232-122-248.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:02:17 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-190-177.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:02:19 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-190-177.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:02:52 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-232-122-248.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:18 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-128.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:04:50 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-128.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:05:40 timor [~timor@port-92-195-176-161.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:07:39 francogrex [~user@109.130.62.226] has joined #lisp 08:08:14 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-yorxmaootqdcpajc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:08:56 in my ecl implementation I need to fix the :gray package, the author neglected to add (:use :si) in the defpackage of :gray. But gray is built in ecl (meaning cannot redefine its defpackage) how can i fix that? 08:09:23 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-176-161.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:34 did you consider contacting ECL maintainers? 08:10:25 exilio5 [~user@cpe-24-242-2-225.elp.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:11:48 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.184.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:15:47 francogrex: Why do you need to :use :si in the :gray package? 08:15:57 it would be a big thing to ask them to fix a release if on the other hand there was na easy 'local' fix for me 08:17:14 beach: because I am trying to asdf cl-unicode which depend onb trivial-gray-streams and it halts because gray::shrink-vector is undefined. Now shrink vector is in the :si package 08:17:47 francogrex: So is this a bug in the :gray package? 08:17:56 somehow it is expected that gray uses the si:.... 08:18:08 beach: I'm not sure. maybe not 08:18:27 maybe it's the trivial-gray-streams that is asking 'too much' 08:18:28 francogrex: does this happen before or after you try to fix it? 08:18:53 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:19:35 I am unable to fix it because the :gray package is "embedded" inside ecl. (like the :sb-gray in sbcl) 08:19:56 francogrex: Again, does this problem happen before or after you attempt to fix the :gray package? 08:20:57 beach: I attempt to fix the gray package only from trivial-gray-streams bu adding to (defpcakage :trivial-gray-streams... :use :si) but it doesn't help 08:21:19 francogrex: It would help a lot if you answered my question. 08:22:30 beach: the answer is: I am unable to fix the :gray package because it is embedded inside ecl. If you have a suggestion i'm all ears (or eyes in this case) 08:23:15 fixing means fixing the src code of ecl 08:23:37 francogrex: So the answer is that there is a bug in the :gray package as delivered, because it refers to shrink-vector which is not in the :gray package. Well, you can't fix that the way you are planning, because packages only work while code is read, and it was read a long time ago. 08:24:40 hmm ok; well :sb-gray doesn't have this bug but I guess it's another :gray... 08:24:55 francogrex: The easiest thing to do is to (in-package :gray) (setf (symbol-function 'shrink-vector) (symbol-function 'si:shrink-vector)) 08:25:20 is there a possibility that I "shadow" gray coming from ecl and introduce a :gray that I fix myself? 08:25:26 ok ok 08:25:43 beach: ignore my last statement 08:25:48 I'll try 08:27:10 francogrex: You need to stop thinking about packages as modules containing functions. Packages map symbol names to symbols. That mapping is done when the code is read. If you are working on code that has already been read by the compiler, you can't change the mapping from names to symbols. 08:27:23 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.154.118] has joined #lisp 08:27:28 ok 08:29:00 serichsen [~user@f049103018.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:03 what's the big deal with fixing bugs properly? 08:29:03 Good morning! 08:29:16 hello serichsen 08:29:52 ECL maintainers aren't some unapproachable god-like creatures 08:30:40 I would tell them no problem, I just needed a 'temporary' fix to test if indeed the problem comes from there 08:31:39 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.154.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:32:25 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-szvzmnelcbvtemsx] has joined #lisp 08:32:30 What is the status of cl-prevalence? 08:36:49 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A9C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:16 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:42:23 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 08:43:59 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:51 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:45:12 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 08:50:00 Just pasting the non-english version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1xjeCy3eeg 08:51:47 valvola [~val@host4-254-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:55:57 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 08:58:19 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:59:13 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756139.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:13 bugger! SI::SHRINK-VECTOR [Macro] : Shrinks a vector. Optimized if vector has a fill pointer. 09:02:13 Needs to be a macro to overwrite value of VEC. 09:02:56 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 09:03:57 francogrex: OK, then instead do (in-package :gray) (defun shrink-vector (...) (si:shrink-vector ...)) where ... is the signature of shrink-vector. 09:08:38 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 09:15:59 H4ns`` [~user@pD4B9EC5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:11 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.123.1.166] has joined #lisp 09:17:56 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-szvzmnelcbvtemsx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:48 -!- H4ns` [~user@pD4B9E979.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:21:27 works 09:21:42 :) 09:22:15 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.123.1.166] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:24:30 francogrex: how old is your ECL? 09:25:11 -!- valvola [~val@host4-254-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 09:26:16 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:26:42 9.8 did you try it with 10.7.1? 09:27:27 commit 21cd80.. Sun Dec 7 13:58:05 2008 SHRINK-VECTOR is not in the Gray package 09:27:43 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.79.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 09:29:36 hmm... weird. should have been fixed even in this earlier release which is after dec 2008 09:30:27 in any case, the first thing you do when you trying to fix bugs is update 09:30:29 I'll see with the ecl guys... or I try to recompile. anyway beache's suggestion worked well 09:30:58 instead of wasting yours and others time on fixing already fixed bugs 09:32:22 fiveop [~fiveop@p5B285688.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:11 later releases have other bugs (incompatibilities with windows system) 09:36:52 why don't you concentrate on fixing those? 09:37:52 trying... slowly. Another thing would like to fix is the simple-streams in sbcl to be fully compatible with windows 09:41:52 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:42:11 Ralith: Well that was the issue with prolog that Kovensky put forth. That after college he would not use it for anything. <-- it's not really "after college", it's "in 3 months we will have no use for it anymore, and we'd probably not really be able to use it anyway because of poor teaching" 09:42:56 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 09:43:03 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:44:53 HET2 [~diman@91.106.69.71] has joined #lisp 09:46:09 -!- andrew007 [~andrew_zu@58.62.84.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:46:39 andrew007 [~andrew_zu@219.136.142.250] has joined #lisp 09:50:25 but anyway if I have waisted a little bit of my time and that of Beach, I learned from him few very useful tips that i wouldn't have learned otherwise... 09:52:54 jmbr [~jmbr@23.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:56:50 ska`` [~user@27.130.94.179] has joined #lisp 09:57:55 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-61-90-12-145.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:58:00 ska``` [~user@ppp-58-8-150-74.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:01:31 -!- ska`` [~user@27.130.94.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:07:12 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.62.226] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:13:04 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 10:14:45 sEdivad [~edivad@wikipedia/Siciliano-Edivad] has joined #lisp 10:15:08 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:16:23 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:16:26 Kovensky: if your complaint is that your pofessor is incompetent, don't bring lisp into it :P 10:17:15 Ralith: but... I didn't 10:17:54 *Ralith* looks at channel 10:18:02 *Kovensky* hopes to one day achieve http://xkcd.com/224/ 10:18:39 :P 10:19:05 you're more likely to achieve the hacking most of it together in perl part ;p 10:20:06 probably :P 10:20:16 if you look at my github almost everything there is in perl lol 10:25:25 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:33:09 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.79.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: asdf] 10:35:59 sepp2k [~sexy@p4FDF6F2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:56 josemanuel [~josemanue@78.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:38:53 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D5C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:26 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:48:53 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:51:03 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 10:52:14 -!- andrew007 [~andrew_zu@219.136.142.250] has quit [Quit: 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joined #lisp 13:16:55 (loop repeat 1000 do (loop for i in '("one" "two" "three") collect i)) 13:17:05 but (iter outer (repeat 1000) (iter (for i in '("one" "two" "three")) (in outer (collect i)))) 13:17:20 how do you do that with loop? 13:17:29 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-190-177.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:17:34 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-190-177.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:17:54 echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 13:18:08 <_3b> (loop repeat 1000 append (loop ... collect)) ? 13:19:46 nice. so iterate outer block is not very useful then if one can use append 13:20:19 <_3b> well, append probably has to walk the list more than adding it directly to the outer list would 13:21:21 it took less than a second with 10,000,000 repeats and an inner list of 500 strings 13:21:53 but maybe it's a special context I have 13:24:59 <_3b> note that i said 'more' not 'too much' :) 13:25:08 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:30:08 _3b: ok. Anything new exciting going on? 13:30:19 new projects etc? 13:30:35 *_3b* is mostly just playing a new MMO at the moment 13:31:05 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:33:51 *beach* is implementing subtypep according to Baker's method. 13:34:25 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-250-9.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:34:52 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@115.184.15.49] has left #lisp 13:35:16 *p_l|backup* does ERP in Lisp 13:37:44 hello lispers 13:37:54 hello kiuma 13:39:13 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:40:12 what advantages does it give the subtypep according to Baker's. (Not that I understand how it works) 13:41:14 beach I pondered about the doc you posted, (perfection-efficience orientation). So after the nth time I was tring to rmember the method to call of CLAW (note that I entirely wrote it by myself). I decided to find a solution to makes things easier. I've found yasnippet. Now writing a claw application is going to be veeery fast. 13:41:41 thanks for enlightening me :) 13:45:11 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@78.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 13:46:33 francogrex: You would have to read the paper. 13:46:59 kiuma: Glad I could help. 13:48:26 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-196-197.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 13:49:56 *francogrex* reading about baker's method now in 'wikipedia' 14:06:47 tama [~tama@109.sub-97-231-159.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:48 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:09:55 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-23-82-248-70-94.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:11:39 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 14:12:38 -!- exilio5 [~user@cpe-24-242-2-225.elp.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:14:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-26.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:15:32 timack [~tim@hlfx56-1-65.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 14:29:23 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.7-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:30:09 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 14:31:10 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-134-32.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:55 ddevaal [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has joined #lisp 14:34:42 sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.105] has joined #lisp 14:37:44 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A9C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:35 -!- benny [~user@i577A18D1.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:04 francogrex: http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/Subtypep.html 14:44:12 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A9C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:46:54 beach: Do you know if this paper is provided as a PDF or PS document? 14:47:12 xan_ [~xan@46.204.192.61.tokyo.bflets.alpha-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:49:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-29-15.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:49:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-29-15.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:49:34 Quadrescence: I suspect not, because it (or rather the later version) is copyright by the ones who own Lisp and Symbolic Computation. 14:50:05 *beach* vanishes for a while 14:50:20 you can make a pdf out of it 14:50:28 Quadrescence: http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/Subtypep.ps.gz 14:50:52 tankrim: Thanks! 14:51:08 francogrex: Sure, I could make a pdf out of it, but it would be ugly. 14:53:08 it would be exatly same quality as the one in the link provided above 14:53:53 francogrex: Perhaps if I retypeset it 14:54:28 you could print the web page to pdf (: 14:54:43 anyway 14:54:52 antifuchs: ugly ugly ugly 14:55:26 maybe just change that ugly font you're using? 14:56:04 The font isn't what makes something ugly (it can though!) 14:56:16 HET2 [~diman@91.106.69.71] has joined #lisp 14:56:21 Typography, placement of things, style, all that zealot stuff. 14:57:03 heh 14:58:16 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.62.226] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:58:31 i don't see how PDF magically assures that it's not ugly for you 14:59:05 mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 15:00:59 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:07:06 -!- HET2 [~diman@91.106.69.71] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:07:14 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:20 benny [~benny@i577A18D1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:39 (especially seeing as the .ps is really not much prettier than the web page (-:) 15:12:12 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:13:06 stassats: It doesn't automatically assure it. But generally it will mean it was typeset with LaTeX and output with pdflatex or similar, which is a larger guarantee. And by the looks of the page, it was typeset with LaTeX. 15:13:29 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-206-26-27.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:14:43 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx56-1-65.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:15:22 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:15:57 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:18 Let's talk about the Worst Macros (tm) you guys have seen. 15:16:39 let's not 15:16:43 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-150-74.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:17:06 stassats: Haha, I was looking for some good laughs this groggy Sunday morning. :( 15:18:23 Fare: in asdf2, is there a way to iterate over all the reachable .asd systems? 15:18:59 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:19:00 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-19-43.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:17 attila_lendvai: there wasn't really a way to do that in asdf1, either. 15:19:28 what with custom system-search functions 15:20:25 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:20:29 Xach: ahh, good point! that part is already in our code which i'm moving to asdf2... thanks for the remote debugging! :) 15:22:26 -!- echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:24:09 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:27:55 -!- tama [~tama@109.sub-97-231-159.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:30 -!- jso [~user@ip68-111-169-131.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:31 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:30 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A9C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:12 tama [~tama@109.sub-97-231-159.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:41 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756139.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:18 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756139.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:44 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-196-197.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:50:50 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:13 -!- darkmag [~vfalico@ip-94-112-36-51.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:57:02 timack [~tim@hlfx53-2a-195.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 15:57:26 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756139.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:56 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756139.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:33 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: omghaahhahaohwow] 16:02:03 s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:02:47 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:03:05 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:03:15 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-120-229.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 16:05:13 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05:15 rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:05:35 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Client Quit] 16:06:28 Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-27-115.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:07:04 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:08:29 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-250-9.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:11:24 -!- s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:39 Blkt [~user@93-33-131-26.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:13:11 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:13:17 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:14:00 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442646.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 16:16:41 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.250.113] has joined #lisp 16:17:20 good evening everyone 16:17:50 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442646.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:18:11 Howdy Blkt 16:18:16 hi there 16:18:21 evening 16:18:31 hi aerique 16:18:43 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:57 Blkt: you got a bot going yet? 16:19:11 I'm going to switch to your starter pack, Bocsimacko's one is getting me nervous 16:19:16 I was working on one 16:19:37 but I can't understand why he gets stuck when there's nothing else to do but wait 16:20:12 issuing a null list of orders does not work 16:20:24 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:40 Blkt: is there no (finish-turn) in his pack or did he take another approach? 16:20:41 so I'll start back studing your APIs and rebuild a bot 16:20:54 I didn't see anything similar 16:21:14 but anyway, I'm going to switch to your one 16:21:14 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:18 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:21:40 is there a written description of your api? 16:21:44 Blkt: mine's pretty basic and I wouldn't call it APIs :) i can send you some utility functions from my current source tree if you got it working 16:22:04 well, that would be awesome 16:22:15 Blkt: no, it's basically: check the source and write your own but it's pretty small 16:23:53 it would be nice to have some kind of blue print, but I suppose digging the code is far more instructive 16:25:33 server's SBCL version is still 1.0.11, isn't it? 16:25:43 Blkt: afaik: yes 16:25:51 hell... 16:26:21 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:28:18 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:30:12 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:35:38 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.250.113] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:35:58 -!- xan_ [~xan@46.204.192.61.tokyo.bflets.alpha-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:36:52 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 16:46:22 -!- ddevaal [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 16:48:11 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.24.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:50:30 ddevaal [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has joined #lisp 16:51:35 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.24.124] has joined #lisp 16:54:09 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E2671A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:59 -!- tama [~tama@109.sub-97-231-159.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:35 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 17:01:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-29-15.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:02:59 gcv [~gcv@ool-457569c4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:10 -!- gcv [~gcv@ool-457569c4.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 17:03:18 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03:43 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.184.107] has joined #lisp 17:03:50 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx53-2a-195.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:05:36 timack [~tim@hlfx55-2a-217.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 17:08:32 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:08:32 -!- pmatos [~user@host81-154-151-153.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:11 Zephyrus [~emanuele@zephyrus.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:12 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@zephyrus.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:09:12 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:12:37 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:40 greetings 17:15:12 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D5C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:16:04 hello fusss 17:18:26 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:18:32 banisterfiend [~sdf@222-154-183-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 17:18:43 do lambda invocations require (funcall ...) ? 17:19:03 when do i need to use (funcall ..) and when can i directly invoke (like in scheme) ? 17:19:38 banisterfiend: The thing in the first position of a form must normally be something bound in the function namespace. 17:19:55 banisterfiend: you can invoke ((lambda (x) x) y) 17:20:03 banisterfiend: if you have a variable bound to a function, you need to use funcall or apply to call it. 17:20:10 but not (let ((foo (lambda (x) x))) (foo y)) 17:21:14 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:21:41 Xach: can you give me short example of when to use funcall ? 17:21:57 (let ((foo (lambda (x) x))) (funcall foo y)) 17:22:01 here 17:22:27 that is a fine example 17:22:49 not really, in this example you'd doo (flet ((foo (lambda (x) x))) (foo y)) 17:23:01 um 17:23:03 which wouldn't work 17:23:03 wait 17:23:14 (flet ((foo (x) x)) (foo y)) 17:23:22 Xach: I did not understand your last sentence in your comment to the langnostic blog about CL/Scheme 17:23:47 Krystof: scheme does not need funcall, but it still needs apply. 17:23:48 sytse: but that's not the example i was showing 17:23:51 but indeed, when you need to bind a function to a variable (for example, when passing a function as a parameter), that's when you use funcall 17:24:11 Krystof: i meant "apply" in that sense. 17:25:37 ah: you mean it still needs apply for its function of calling a function with a variable argument list 17:25:42 right. 17:26:30 *Xach* also failed to balance parens 17:26:48 I think you'll see funcall most often in functions that accept another function or lambda function as a parameter (but not often in macros) 17:29:03 Xach: I am building a list for you of libs you might have missed. ~20 and growing, across several of my boxes .. 17:29:34 sweet 17:29:51 hm, well, maybe in macros needing to parse a 'function call' and call it *in a different way* (otherwise you'd just use eval) in the process of running the macro, using the return value in building the returned sexp or using the function for side effects, but that's obscure 17:30:23 (obscure ftw) 17:31:10 fusss: are they things that you personally use? 17:31:32 mixed bag 17:31:51 some i need badly, and some would disrecommend them even for my worst enemies 17:32:13 stuff like Elephant should be supported .. 17:32:20 leo2007 [~sl392@webserver-ucamorg.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:32:23 Elephant is a no-go. 17:32:29 yeah? alright 17:32:30 It requires manual configuration to build. 17:32:33 oh 17:32:42 Not friendly to quicklisp's style. 17:33:30 I will add more later http://paste.lisp.org/display/114916 17:34:35 I think we just need a master list of lisp libs anyway 17:34:40 I added a bunch of dwim.hu stuff. 17:34:48 even if we don't support them, the metadata could be handy for future tools 17:34:54 the successors to e.g. cl-syntax-sugar and cl-walker 17:35:02 (ql:update-all-dists) to get them. 17:35:06 oh, alright 17:35:28 i also added fcgi 17:35:45 and cl-html-parse. 17:35:49 I am using yesterday's list 17:36:59 this thing is gorgeous 17:37:08 Xach: quick manpage perhaps? 17:37:35 sent 17:37:41 -!- sepp2k [~sexy@p4FDF6F2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: sepp2k] 17:37:59 what was that commands that tests _everything_ 17:38:10 I am running a fresh ABCL instance now and have a few hours to burn 17:38:30 let us chat of it on #quicklisp 17:38:37 alright 17:40:58 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:31 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:17 I've noticed that most of the hunchentoot howtos on-line involve building pages by typing commands into a repl 17:44:33 Abezethibou [~user@88.240.48.7] has joined #lisp 17:44:33 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-131-26.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:37 is this preferred over building a package and loading it through asdf? 17:44:54 *Abezethibou* says hello 17:45:00 fatblueduck: no. 17:45:09 fatblueduck: i think they might do that to provide easy examples to try. 17:45:15 Xach: ok thank you 17:45:22 I was wondering if I was missing something 17:45:56 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-142-111.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 17:46:37 Blkt [~user@93-33-131-26.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:47:01 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:47:29 -!- ehu changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ABCL 0.22.0, SBCL 1.0.42, CFFI 0.10.6 17:52:05 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:52:07 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 17:52:24 -!- Abezethibou [~user@88.240.48.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:41 -!- xinming [~hyy@218.73.130.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:53:46 xinming [~hyy@218.73.130.21] has joined #lisp 17:56:02 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:56:23 davazp [~user@184.Red-79-154-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:06 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:10 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 18:01:17 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:01:33 -!- davazp [~user@184.Red-79-154-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:50 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:34 stassats: hi 18:04:40 leo2007: hello 18:05:27 stassats: a very minor bug in slime-repl slime-repl-history-pattern, the regexp should also include \t 18:05:56 i mean this form (string-match "^[ \n]*$" str) 18:06:27 right 18:06:35 leo2007: Slime has a launchpad bug tracker since a week, or two 18:06:52 MORE ADVERTISING 18:06:58 why launchpad? 18:07:40 because stassats and me are used to it 18:08:07 sbcl is using launchpad, and some other lisp projects 18:10:05 stassats: why not c-l.net Trac? 18:10:21 trac sucks 18:10:22 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:10:39 its performance has increased dramatically about 4 maybe 5 months ago. 18:10:57 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has joined #lisp 18:11:02 fe[nl]ix: heh. I like the ratio in that statement. Care to elaborate? 18:11:32 can I post to the issue tracker by email? 18:12:06 Krystof is doing that somehow 18:12:15 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:11 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@sf-ogame.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:17 leo2007: you need to register and upload your public gpg key to launchpad, after which you can post using gpg-singned emails 18:13:40 bgs100 [~ian@h228.21.131.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:40 -!- bgs100 [~ian@h228.21.131.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:13:40 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 18:13:43 fe[nl]ix: thanks. 18:14:46 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:16:26 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:16:29 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D5C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:41 I locally use a patch that allows slime-repl to try prefix match when searching history; otherwise non prefix match. Is that feature useful? 18:39:14 francogrex [~user@109.130.62.226] has joined #lisp 18:40:18 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-119-238.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 18:40:34 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:49 friends, what's the slime command that wraps FIND-METHOD? 18:41:13 inspect the GF 18:41:16 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 18:46:20 -!- Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-27-115.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:08 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 18:50:30 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:32 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-25-155.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:56:59 hey, i recall seeing a slime video where the author had emacs display the keys he pressed in a minibuffer. anyone know what that was called? 18:57:15 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-119-238.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:33 leo2007: doesn't slime do a prefix match already if you type the first characters into the repl and press M-p? 18:57:35 -!- Eno_ [~eno@fl-71-55-189-188.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01:38 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 19:01:39 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 19:01:39 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:03:47 <_8david> what's up with that anyway? I'm probably just not aware of how emacs does things, but I've never felt that I'd need a prefix match. I want an arbitrary substring match. Are all those emacs-based repls really so much dumber than plain readline, or is there a magic readline-isearch-like keystroke I'm not aware of? 19:04:10 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 19:04:44 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-232-122-248.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:06:35 You have both 19:06:52 I forgot the equivalent to C-r in readline though 19:08:09 yeah, isearch in slime repl history would be pretty neat 19:08:25 (also, the prefix match isn't working for us paredit users (:) 19:10:23 YOUR SYMMETRIC SMILEY CONFUSES AND INFURIATES ME! 19:11:42 *sytse* declares war on earth 19:12:15 *wbooze* prepares the battlebots 19:12:43 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 19:12:48 *sytse* prepares the snacks 19:14:21 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-11-158.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:17:24 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:19:02 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:20:09 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:23:45 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f727fbf.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:30 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:28:02 Soo.. I compile http://sprunge.us/iIci and it all compiles find, until it's compiled it all and then it tells me: http://sprunge.us/OjEf => why? :[ 19:31:15 carlvoncosel [~michaelk@mak.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:32:26 antifuchs: I mean it tries prefix match if it succeeds otherwise non-prefix 19:32:56 the matched string is then flashed 19:35:05 ij: maybe the package spec disagrees with the method hook in this file? 19:36:10 sytse, package spec? 19:36:15 hmm 19:36:17 wait 19:36:20 I'm not thinking right. 19:36:24 I have no idea, sorry 19:37:01 not that well-versed in asdf 19:38:00 ,lisppaste 19:39:04 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:39:29 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.62.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:41 antifuchs: the patch is small, I put it here http://paste.lisp.org/display/114922. 19:40:15 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082B57E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:55 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5B327EAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:43:26 ij: what does it say when you load the file without asdf? 19:43:43 Jabberwockey [~jens@hmbg-5f766433.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:49 ij: method parameters should be congruent to the parameters of the generic function 19:44:12 clhs 7.6.4 19:44:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_fd.htm 19:45:29 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:16 -!- benny [~benny@i577A18D1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.2] 19:51:19 benny [~benny@i577A30EB.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:53:32 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-120-229.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:54:16 logia_th [~nmo@83.35.117.177] has joined #lisp 19:58:31 Aladore [~Aladore@85.192.211.140] has joined #lisp 20:01:03 timor [~timor@port-92-195-176-161.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:07:00 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:08:18 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 20:20:28 -!- salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva_] 20:24:04 How can I get some interesting information out of "e" I get from handler-case by doing (handler-case ... (error (e) ..)) 20:24:06 ? 20:24:42 you can PRINC it 20:25:12 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:53 francogrex [~user@109.130.112.205] has joined #lisp 20:27:08 Can I get back-trace out of it? 20:28:56 this probably denotes ignorance more than anything else but I could get away with writing this: (member "red" mylist :test #'equal), but not this: (rassoc "red" some-alist :test #'equal) it had to be 'equal withouta hash. 20:30:00 ij: No, conditions do not contain a backtrace by default 20:30:17 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:31 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-254-247.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:30:50 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:32:45 francogrex: huh? 20:33:38 adeht: never mind, just silly. ignore. 20:33:46 made a mistake 20:35:39 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:25 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:33 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:50:07 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-145-177-14.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:47 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:02 20:53:10 sry :P 20:57:08 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-140-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:57:11 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-140-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:53 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-190-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:59:13 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-190-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:01:00 Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-1-247.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:08:11 -!- carlvoncosel [~michaelk@mak.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:08:17 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 21:10:16 -!- navigator [~navigator@p548968AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 21:14:43 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.79.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:23 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 21:15:42 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.79.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 21:18:33 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:20:28 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:22:42 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-140-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:22:53 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-140-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:23:36 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.112.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:25 ij: out of an error in general, you cannot get anything interesting. 21:25:43 But out of a more specific condition, you could have accessors to get more specific information. 21:27:03 (handler-case ... (end-of-file (err) (princ `(end-of-file on stream ,(stream-error-stream err)))) (error (err) (princ `(just some kind of error ,err)))) 21:27:15 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-140-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:27:23 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-140-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:28:48 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:06 brandlee [~antiwiene@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 21:30:51 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A9C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:30:55 -!- brandlee [~antiwiene@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 21:31:23 brandlee [~antiwiene@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 21:31:49 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:10 -!- brandlee [~antiwiene@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 21:32:49 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 21:34:09 brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 21:34:18 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-145-177-14.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:35:01 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:38:33 Lajla [~Lajla@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 21:38:42 pjb: that's a very strange approach to printing. 21:38:44 Why did the common lispers get #lisp. =( 21:39:07 Anyway, my quaestion is: I read that null is the unit type which only contains nil, this part I still get, but it goes on, nil is the bottom type, how does this work? 21:39:26 forall x : (nil x) >> nil ? 21:39:28 Or something? 21:40:07 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-65-139.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:40:20 rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:23 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-81-254.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:41:50 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:44 Ralith: In the old times, there were no strings, and no format, only symbols and lists, so you printed all messages as lists. Using backquote/comma is nice to build such "messages". I use this way for temporary debugging messages. 21:43:13 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:43:35 Lajla: NIL is the type that has no element. There is no value that has NIL type. That's why NIL is the bottom of the type lattice. 21:43:58 pjb, yes, I get this, but why is it a 'type'? 21:44:00 Lajla: similarly, T is the type that has all the values. All the values are of type T. That's why T is the top of the type lattice. 21:44:14 If it was a type, surely we could do (nil bla) for whatever bla is bound to and always evaluated to nil? 21:44:23 Same for T. 21:44:32 Lajla: well, by definition. It's interesting to be able to name the bottom and the top types. 21:44:33 (T bla) >> T, if it were a 'type', right 21:45:05 pjb, well, I see that, I just wonder why they are 'types' rather than random primitive atoms, but I guess that's just an agreement then? 21:45:08 You could not write (the nil thing) since it would be wrong for all values. 21:45:24 You can write (the t thing) since it would be true for all values. 21:45:41 Yes, a convention, and a definition. 21:46:50 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:46:59 pjb, I suppose if it were complete, then we'd have the identities (T x) >> T and (nil x) >> nil for any value x is bound to, though 21:47:28 Also, I don't really see the use of defining them as the top and bottom type if we can't use them as types 21:47:42 Ah, but you can. 21:48:11 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:23 (typep 1 'nil) --> NIL (typep 1 't) --> T. 21:48:24 ... how accepting people are of modifying stuff covered by standard (in backwards-compatible way)? 21:49:03 Lajla: compare: (map 'list (function print) '(1 2 3)) vs. (map 'nil (function print) '(1 2 3)) 21:49:57 pjb: 'the old times' were decades ago. 21:50:12 pjb, ahhh 21:50:14 Yes. Five decades. 21:50:16 pjb: and when explaining things to newbies it's probably kind of confusing :/ 21:50:23 I did not know you could work that way 21:50:24 cause I've been thinking of making a patch for SBCL to make it's reader into a non-interning one if *reader-intern* is set to nil (with the default being T, of course) 21:50:30 I thought types were just formalized by predicates. 21:50:33 Like (null bla) 21:50:39 Lajla: well, in map 'nil is treated specially. Otherwise it would return no values, but it returns NIL. 21:51:09 pjb, how does map work exactly, I'm mainly a schemer, and all I know is that scheme's map is mapcar 21:52:08 Lajla: no. And you can build types such as: (deftype 42-or-a-or-b-or-c () '(or 42 (member a b c))) (mapcar 'typep '(42 a b c d)) --> (t t t nil) 21:53:07 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@hmbg-5f766433.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:43 pjb, so (typep 42) >> t 21:53:51 I don't really get the last expression there 21:54:03 (mapcar 'typep '(42 a b c d)) 21:54:21 Don't you need that deftype result into it at some point? 22:16:46 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:46 22:16:46 -!- names: ccl-logbot ottergwc c|mell The_Jon_Smith p_l|backup rvirding nowhere_man Lajla brandlee tankrim wbooze homie RaceCondition Edward_ eli pizzledizzle Kenjin hargettp timor Aladore logia_th benny dto daniel__ lolsuper_ legumbre astoon ace4016 Cowmoo Yuuhi bgs100 rahul b-man_ Xantoz srcerer xinming Blkt leo2007 banisterfiend fusss timack ziarkaen cmatei ddevaal Quadrescence humasect MetalDust hugod _s1gma rdd morphling gravicappa Xach dreish mjonsson mgr 22:16:46 -!- names: Nshag eldragon tcr jmcphers sdsds angavrilov mega1 mathrick mrSpec urandom__ dlowe jmbr fiveop H4ns`` incandenza serichsen pchrist sbahra cpc26 adeht fatblueduck xavieran ost`` brickhazel sytse pjb TomJ derrida Draggor eno Krystof cmm slyrus fualo cinch gz` pierrep MaxMuen Euthydemus gz drakko schmrkc fmu_ billstclair lusory ASau araujo deepfire lnostdal arbscht Ralith phadthai setheus Demosthenes s0ber zeroish mbohun upwardindex rotty Jasko sonnym Fare 22:16:46 -!- names: Ginei_Morioka mmullis koollman dstatyvka boyscared yan_ tomaw madnificent bzzbzz anonymouse89 stepnem ivan4th pdo frodef Fullma dmiles_afk chrnybo delYsid BrianRice trebor_dki AntiSpamMeta yahooooo smithzv quasisane sellout rread Intensity slyrus_ zc00gii froydnj stokachu` reb naiv ramus symbole holycow Kovensky guther PuffTheMagic Khisanth _3b` baley Dazhbog scode emma Dodek OliverUv m4thrick z0d pok katofiad antifuchs varjag rtoym kleppari cataska 22:16:46 -!- names: lemoinem Wombatzus ineiros gnooth stettberger Salamander qebab tic ASau``` vandemar beach CrazyEddy Anarch cpt_nemo jsnell cYmen Patzy Guest57074 rootzlevel kloeri ecraven mal__ l_a_m mon_key lisppaste Tristam pr Adrinael aoh blitz_ p_l Fade felipe ij johanbev rullie `micro bfein prip Tordek Odin- _8david franki^_ hohum joshe erk sid3k ``Erik dostoyevsky abend mornfall Bucciarati fe[nl]ix Yamazaki-kun kuwabara bougyman fmu REPLeffect bobbysmith007 22:16:46 -!- names: acknopper clop kvsari tychoish joast turbo24prg svk_ pkhuong acieroid hypno spiaggia nuba krl yacin ve minion specbot talyz antoszka mtd housel johs seejay marienz djinni` rapacity Borbus luis zbigniew dose Aisling Buganini lharc Xof chandler tvaalen Pepe_ ianmcorvidae vsync Holcxjo cods albino mulander _3b tokenrove PissedNumlock herbieB_ foom fda314925 sykopomp hdurer`` tessier Axioplase_ gds Tasunteld [df] erg amaron jrockway djm krappie_ hc_e 22:16:46 -!- names: jpanest Zhivago MikeSeth qsun lonstein clog spacebat nullman dcrawford starseeker Obfuscate galdor 22:17:59 Ah, so basically, you place declare at the start of a body to say some-thing about the variables being used? 22:18:30 Yes. There are various places where declarations are acceptable. At the beginning of let and defun bodies are such places. 22:18:42 At the beginning of LOCALLY too. 22:20:01 Hmm, I take it that let and defun are macros that expand to some thing to do with lambda? 22:20:10 Yes. 22:20:20 Do all of them? 22:20:22 Also progn? 22:20:36 That is, progn, let and let* are actually specified as special operators, but 22:20:49 in CL any special operator could be implemented as a macro. 22:21:09 (And any macro could be implemented as a special operator as long as an equivalent macro definition is available). 22:22:11 I heard though that this does not always exactly satisfy the intended behaviour due to CL's lack of hygiene, even with gensymb, is tihs true? 22:22:22 Actually, there are some semantics points in the specification of CL that would make an implementation of let/let* as macros expanding to lambda forms a little hard to do correctly. 22:22:32 But coarsely, yes, there is that equivalence. 22:23:19 Not really, since you can implement an entirely hygienic system with gensym and CL macros. 22:25:19 Hmm, well, I heard some CL people say that, and some Scheme people deny that, I'm not sure why though 22:26:00 But I heard there are some part of hygiene that gensymb can't cover, which is why it's supposedly a primitive in scheme and you have 'syntax objects', which aren't traditional lists but carry aditional information about bindings needed for syntax transformations 22:26:01 Lajla: have a look at http://p-cos.net/documents/hygiene.pdf 22:26:04 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 22:26:35 -!- Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-1-247.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:27:29 Well, there may be problems if you want separation of the layers in the metalinguistic tower, but in practice, since CL is a lisp-2, macros work very well without being hygienic. We can control it with very little cost. 22:30:48 Hmm, well, I had a debate with a schemer today where I argued that a function (macro-expand datum info-about-environment info-about-transformer ...) could provide all hygiene and call itself recursively with a different environment each time. He disagreed and I'm not quite sure if I misunderstood him or he misunderstood me. 22:32:19 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 22:33:10 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5B2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:14 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:34:43 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:36:21 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-119-238.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: BERB!] 22:36:29 *pjb* vanishes away. 22:38:14 Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-8-203.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:41:12 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:41:52 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-119-238.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:01 -!- brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: brandlee] 22:42:04 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:47:57 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:13 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:50:26 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:07 guther_ [guther@92-55-242-227.net.pbthawe.eu] has joined #lisp 22:58:29 so which one is the canonical dev for hunchentoot? Hans'? 22:58:39 -!- guther_ [guther@92-55-242-227.net.pbthawe.eu] has quit [Client Quit] 22:58:51 English not-goodness above 22:59:02 I meant to say the working repo for hunchentoot 22:59:20 http://bknr.net/trac/browser/trunk/thirdparty/hunchentoot ? 23:00:31 -!- banisterfiend [~sdf@222-154-183-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #lisp 23:06:35 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756139.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:49 got it 23:10:01 -!- upwardindex [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:12 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:50 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:12:17 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.184.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:24 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 23:20:59 gonzojive [~red@c-66-31-17-61.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:01 darkmag [~vfalico@ip-94-112-36-51.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 23:22:41 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 23:26:17 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5B285688.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 23:27:11 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-66-31-17-61.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 23:29:18 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:31:22 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:33:24 ppasteau [~ppasteau@bas11-montrealak-1177756560.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:37:48 gonzojive [~red@c-66-31-17-61.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:20 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.51] has joined #lisp 23:38:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:39:31 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-119-238.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 23:40:23 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-66-31-17-61.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:41:23 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:41:42 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 23:43:52 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:49:12 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-119-238.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:54 upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:50:52 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-176-161.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:05 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.184.107] has joined #lisp 23:52:47 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 23:53:30 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:25 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-254-247.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:54:54 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-254-247.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:56:59 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:34 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-254-247.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 23:59:06 -!- upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 23:59:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.206.215] has joined #lisp