00:02:08 OliverUv_ [~gandhi@34.81-167-250.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:31 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.168.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:05:34 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@34.81-167-250.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:05:39 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:06:34 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75533d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:49 gonzojive [~red@c-76-126-115-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:32 -!- Dodek [dodek@sundance.i-rpg.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:08:50 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:09:15 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 00:09:38 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:09:59 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:10:15 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 00:11:37 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:50 -!- katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:13:03 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:15:12 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:01 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:16:15 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:16:55 JonSmith [~jon@wpx186-119.dynamic.rh.edu] has joined #lisp 00:17:53 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:56 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:22 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 00:20:55 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Quit: Esto se acabooooooo ...] 00:21:09 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:21:43 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 00:23:50 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-069.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:27:31 mbohun [~mbohun@eth649.act.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:13 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@eth649.act.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:29:36 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:50 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:35:03 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:35:11 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:35:14 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-128-50.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:35:16 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 00:35:26 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:29 -!- JonSmith [~jon@wpx186-119.dynamic.rh.edu] has left #lisp 00:35:41 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 00:36:19 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:00 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:39:07 psilord1 [~psilord@adsl-99-154-2-83.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:35 -!- psilord1 [~psilord@adsl-99-154-2-83.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 00:44:33 upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:47:08 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:48:59 -!- Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-59-130.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 00:49:17 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:52:38 psilord1 [~psilord@adsl-99-154-2-83.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:52 Anyone here know how to use lispbuilder-yacc? 00:53:02 Specifically, how do I implement an epsilon rule? 00:53:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp 00:54:28 And using the define-parser interface? 00:54:43 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-15-104.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:56:30 -!- davazp [~user@184.Red-79-154-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:03 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-76-126-115-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:57:24 gonzojive [~red@c-76-126-115-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:30 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:48 dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has joined #lisp 00:57:48 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has quit [Changing host] 00:57:48 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 00:58:30 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A5BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:00:19 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 01:03:05 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:03:39 LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-214-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:12 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:10:44 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Quit: Moving...] 01:10:45 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-15-104.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14:00 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 01:14:18 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-15-104.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:16:50 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:17:50 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx62-1-77.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:19:57 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 01:23:18 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25:21 Interestingly a 2.0 GHz Core 2 Duo (cmucl cvs/sse2) vs a 866 MHz P-III (cmucl 18c/x87) isn't more than twice as fast as might be suggested by the clock speed difference. 01:27:06 interesting 01:30:10 hmmm... Wasn't there some specific alignment issue in sse2, especially on core2? 01:30:19 fusss [~chatzilla@cpe-184-59-202-37.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:01 something regarding L1 alignment involved with SSE2 code/data 01:31:42 *p_l* recalls reading something about it on some x264 blog 01:32:49 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 01:34:04 It's not exactly a fair comparison. CMUCL has changed a bit between those versions. 01:34:36 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:34:44 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:34:49 And the P-III has a much shorter pipeline, I think. And cmucl's sse2 uses unaligned loads since cmucl can't guarantee the double-floats are aligned in memory. 01:36:15 rtoym: core2 doesn't have much longer pipeline than P6 (from which it evolved), unlike NetBurst (which has OMGWTFLOL? pipeline... :P) 01:38:15 Oh, ok. There have been so many different versions that I can no longer remember the differences anymore. 01:38:47 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:25 got something :D 01:39:29 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440354.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:39:57 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 01:40:48 derrida: url! 01:41:58 Assuming my records are right, a 486-66 hold up well against the 2.0GHz Core 2 Duo. :-) 01:42:13 lol 01:42:14 "I used to have a truck like that, too" 01:42:55 Xach: not sure it qualifies as cool but i feel motivated :D http://tinyurl.com/3xub4yd 01:42:59 rtoym: iirc NetBurst had some crazy pipeline like ~40 steps, P6 had under 20 01:43:27 Oops. I forgot to divide by 100, so Core2Duo does quite well against a 486. :-) 01:46:06 derrida: the tinyurl is almost longer than the actual url! 01:46:14 derrida: that is a fine shade of green 01:48:06 here's the updated code so far, http://paste.lisp.org/display/114769#1 01:50:03 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 01:50:22 Xach: i tried to play with image-data but i couldn't figure out what to do with it hehe 01:51:19 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:08 (let ((zpng-data (image-data png))) (replace zpng-data pixels)) 01:54:12 tritchey_ [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has joined #lisp 01:54:12 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:54:13 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 01:54:33 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:03 ahhh, i had the replace backwards :D 01:57:09 *Xach* wonders why he gets a trace/bpt trap when loading cl-opengl on darwin 01:59:48 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:04:04 darn, i hadn't tried to compile any cl-opengl stuff in osx, i was hoping it would work though 02:04:29 lispbuilder-sdl took some finagling 02:04:32 my system might be fubar 02:04:33 fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 21938(tid 140735081716768): 02:04:34 no size function for object at 0x0080cf00 (widetag 0x0) 02:04:40 that's when trying to build sbcl from CVS 02:05:00 uh oh 02:06:28 -!- ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:06:37 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:08:33 *Xach* tries again 02:08:40 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 02:10:45 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:11:31 delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 02:15:41 today's lisp hack: http://paste.lisp.org/display/114772 02:16:14 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 02:17:29 written in haste (20 mins?) so I can sync some subtitles, and now cleaned up a bit 02:19:03 subtitles? 02:19:26 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:19:34 .srt files (subrip) 02:20:24 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a85-138-211-37.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:24:48 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:32:42 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.3.254] has joined #lisp 02:32:53 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:21 <_3b> Xach: cl-opengl stuff (cl-glut in particular) works best from the first thread on OSX 02:34:32 -!- psilord1 [~psilord@adsl-99-154-2-83.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 02:34:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@46.204.192.61.tokyo.bflets.alpha-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:35:00 k 02:35:17 i just got gears going from *inferior-lisp* at 2000fps 02:37:41 it's funny how blindingly fast the lisp gears spin :) 02:37:56 at least here for some reason 02:46:29 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:47:43 mk2 [~user@evanspc2.rai.umds.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 02:50:07 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 02:52:48 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-214-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:55:42 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.194.186] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 03:04:54 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ypnwhbqohtynltuw] has joined #lisp 03:04:54 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ypnwhbqohtynltuw] has left #lisp 03:15:01 Hmm. Is it not possible to create new pages on cliki.net? 03:21:17 phf [~user@c-76-116-247-60.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:28 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:10 rtoym: it should be 03:34:22 Weird then. When I click on the Create New Page, nothing happens. Maybe it's a firefox problem? 03:35:02 do you have javascript turned off? 03:35:57 new page uses a javascript popup.. but you can also just do to http://www.cliki.net/edit/new%20page and that will just work IIRC 03:36:04 go to* 03:36:56 Oh, how stupid. noscript didn't have the Options button showing, so I didn't see that it was blocking cliki.net. 03:37:13 Now it works! 03:37:30 *rtoym* thinks about whether he should create the page or not now.... 03:37:41 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:39:21 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:59 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.209] has joined #lisp 03:52:08 -!- CrazyEddy [~ovariotub@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:53:32 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-lbpjnmzzphnkqrte] has joined #lisp 03:55:33 CrazyEddy [~ovariotub@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 03:58:40 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 04:01:59 gnycl [~gnycl@97-114-50-145.roch.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:39 What is the easiest way to start learning lisp for someone who only has done PHP (and very flakily at that) all their life? 04:02:45 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:03:45 adeht: what format is that? 04:04:48 heh, I thought OUT from YTOOLS was just an academic exercise 04:05:27 I tried to use the lexer generator from the same lib and found it a bit too academic 04:05:52 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Quit: Moving...] 04:06:51 -!- gnycl [~gnycl@97-114-50-145.roch.qwest.net] has left #lisp 04:10:24 -!- vandemar [holy@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:12:53 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 04:13:01 fusss: http://github.com/death/constantia/blob/master/out.lisp 04:13:12 beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-34-155.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:13:30 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 04:13:35 oh, it's inspired by ytools:out 04:13:43 Good morning everyone! 04:14:04 let's hope OUT can do to FORMAT what ITERATE did to LOOP 04:14:12 hey beach 04:15:13 it doesn't handle all of format's directives I am guessing; i miss ~R in java 04:16:11 fusss: not all, but it does have ~R 04:16:29 Demosthenes [~demo@12.0.194.4] has joined #lisp 04:17:22 OTOH, there are things format lacks, and would be nice to have an extensible OUT, say, for printing dates in "verbal" format, i.e. (format nil "~v ago" (- (get-universal-time) 1000)) ==> "one-second ago" 04:17:57 the data/time utilities are spread wide and thin, and output is done either by print-object or custom utilities 04:18:36 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-76-126-115-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 04:18:59 you can define a "user op", which can be used e.g., (out (:u my-date-format the-date)) 04:19:54 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:22:14 that would be nice, specially if def-user-op or whatever is pushed to client libs, a la print-object, and there isn't some fighting over the directive symbols. I am guessing they will function as (defmethod user-op ((op (eql :u))) ..) or similar. can't have two user-op methods specializing on the same symbol. 04:22:38 vandemar [rings@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 04:23:43 fusss: there's a define-user-op macro.. the point of user ops is that they let you use a non-keyword symbol, so that there'll be no fighting 04:24:58 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 04:25:15 fusss: see lines 237-252 04:25:33 gnycl [~gnycl@97-114-50-145.roch.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:47 (more like -252 ;) 04:26:02 *255, eek. signals that it's time to go to sleep 04:26:06 -!- gnycl [~gnycl@97-114-50-145.roch.qwest.net] has left #lisp 04:26:12 yes, I see it 04:27:04 hope that doesn't affect code reading much; it's best to leave it user side and not catalog it in a central master list, imo 04:28:17 -!- salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva_] 04:28:55 reinvention of the wheel is rampant; mel-base, for example, has its own base64 utilities. cliki libs need some massive refactoring. A few are so essential that others ought to use them: alexandria, babel, cl-base64, etc. 04:30:04 it would also be nice if people thought twice about using arnesi for just its basic routines. arnesi uses some advanced mop-fu and is harder to build on ABCL and other fringe CLs 04:30:34 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:39 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 04:34:43 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:40:20 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40:27 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 04:40:28 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:40:55 for example, cl-pdf uses salza-deflate which uses a wall of #+implementation dependent forms to implement STRING-TO-OCTETS. using BABEL would make things 100% more portable. 04:42:51 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #lisp 04:47:18 Xach: herep 04:48:33 minion: memo for Xach: cl-pdf depends on salza (not salza2), but it bundles it instead of just using it as a dependency. I made a few tweaks to get it working on ccl and abcl; do I send patches to you or Mark? 04:48:33 Remembered. I'll tell Xach when he/she/it next speaks. 04:51:38 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:53:31 adeht: heh, constantia's case translating stream has already found use :-) 04:53:46 kclifton [~kclifton@S0106001ff3c78795.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:31 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:57:29 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.0.194.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:59:25 -!- mk2 [~user@evanspc2.rai.umds.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:59:51 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:03:07 -!- upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:05:44 ppasteau [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255273.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:06:16 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255273.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:08:20 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:08:54 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:12:09 xan_ [~xan@k184205.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 05:21:52 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.3.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:22:13 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 05:25:16 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has joined #lisp 05:25:21 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 05:27:29 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30:20 thom_ [~thom@c-24-19-97-223.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:22 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-lbpjnmzzphnkqrte] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:41:38 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tiocjhdpqkbrbcxr] has joined #lisp 05:46:16 dnm_ [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:00 -!- dnm_ [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:49:50 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:50:52 dnm [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:57 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:52:19 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:12 hmmm, I feel iffy about using WITH-* for its result; (frob-x (with-output-to-x (var) (write-to-x var ..))) 05:59:20 same as using loop for its result (loop for x .. collecting ..) a functional interface might be cleaner 06:01:52 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-15-104.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:02:18 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-15-104.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:03:55 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:19 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:07:28 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-15-104.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:09:43 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:10:52 tritchey [~tritchey@76.14.13.107] has joined #lisp 06:13:06 -!- phf [~user@c-76-116-247-60.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:14:56 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 06:16:13 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@76.14.13.107] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 06:16:43 I am considering using (base64 (cl-store:store object)) to pass around data blobs between lisps over the wire. what could possibly go wrong? 06:17:43 (time (restore-base64 (store-base64 (loop for x from 0 to 100000 collecting (make-object :val ..)))) ~= 2.5s 06:19:53 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 06:20:19 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 06:24:23 phf [~user@c-76-116-247-60.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:24 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:24:34 -!- ppasteau [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255273.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:28:58 darkmag [~vfalico@ip-94-112-36-51.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 06:32:22 fusss: a profile might be helpful 06:32:44 also, why go through b64? 06:34:20 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:35:32 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nhaiuerighzylxsb] has joined #lisp 06:37:10 vinnana [~pkensche@cmbipc58.cmbi.umcn.nl] has joined #lisp 06:38:19 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:38:23 pkhuong: hoping i can wrap the payload in mime envelopes i end up deploying to play nice with others 06:38:53 naked cl-store is nice, but i might end up writing restore in java 06:39:41 2.5 seconds is fast enough for my purposes; it takes an order of magnitude to get stuff out of Hibernate 06:42:18 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.209] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:42:33 -!- thom_ [~thom@c-24-19-97-223.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:43:09 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:43:28 good morning 06:46:41 -!- phf [~user@c-76-116-247-60.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47:22 -!- darkmag [~vfalico@ip-94-112-36-51.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:47:22 hey mvilleneuve 06:48:17 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 06:49:30 darkmag [~vfalico@ip-94-112-36-51.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 06:49:48 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:55:11 alright, time for symbolics GC for firefox. a restart :-) 06:55:13 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@cpe-184-59-202-37.new.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 06:57:10 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:24 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:01:58 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:03:15 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:06:09 How do you easily get the last item in a list? 07:06:17 Like the opposite of car 07:07:55 with 'last' 07:08:04 heh 07:08:09 I just found it. :P 07:08:14 but if you are using that a lot, you should probably re-think your algorithm... 07:08:42 No, only a one-off. 07:09:15 A list has the characteristics of a linked list, right? 07:09:38 In that to get the last item, you have to start at the first item? 07:10:09 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:11:39 yes, you have to traverse the whole list 07:12:41 fiveop [~fiveop@p5B287AED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:00 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:15:56 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:16:44 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:17:11 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:18:43 ASau``` [~user@77.246.230.215] has joined #lisp 07:19:57 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:21:06 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 07:21:21 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:22:18 -!- ASau`` [~user@77.246.230.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:27:06 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Quit: Meeting.] 07:28:10 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-126-250.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:29:18 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-33-145.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:29:18 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:30:21 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:31:24 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 07:33:29 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:34:00 segyr [~terje@79.85-200-235.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:35:36 linux-m00n [~oseba@89-212-156-60.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:11 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-59-145.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:23 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:50:56 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:51:37 -!- xan_ [~xan@k184205.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:57:44 -!- segyr [~terje@79.85-200-235.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: segyr] 07:58:09 segyr [~terje@79.85-200-235.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:58:36 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AB70.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:31 kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has joined #lisp 08:04:56 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 08:05:56 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 08:07:48 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tiocjhdpqkbrbcxr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:07:57 jmbr_ [~jmbr@111.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:08:39 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@111.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:48 morning 08:09:58 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 08:10:15 good 08:10:21 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:10:54 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Client Quit] 08:12:34 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-jqemztnhcdzwxuqz] has joined #lisp 08:13:10 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 08:14:18 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:16:13 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:23:52 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-227-89.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:24:41 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-227-89.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:40 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 08:35:32 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:38:32 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 08:44:43 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440354.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:46:56 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:47:40 Are the arithmetic functions (ie. * + etc.) generic and can one define new methods for them? 08:47:50 no 08:49:38 Borbus: at least not the CL:* and CL:+ 08:50:04 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442646.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:50:34 I'm going to make a library for handling rational functions (ie. ratios of polynomials), so I would need to make new arithmetic functions, could I make them generic mypackage:* etc. and have them handle combinations of rational functions and CL rationals? 08:51:21 Borbus: you can do whatever you want in your own package 08:51:37 why don't just make separate arithmetic functions? 08:51:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:52:03 i just don't quite see what a ratio of polinomial looks like... 08:52:13 I thought it would be easier to use the library that way 08:52:16 or polynomial 08:52:27 1/(x^2+1) for example 08:52:44 that does not look anything like a ratio to me... 08:52:45 and defeat all optimizations? 08:53:38 jdz: why not? It does to me 08:54:02 Just like rational numbers are a ratio of two integers 08:54:06 Borbus: remember, people who know Common Lisp, know what + and * do and accept. If they see these functions called on something they don't expect, they get very confused 08:54:38 Borbus: it looks the same as 1*(x^2+1) to me, which is definitely not a ratio 08:54:58 just a formula 08:55:00 True, I was thinking along the lines of C++ bignum libraries which overload operators 08:55:15 i think overloading is a bad thing 08:55:37 It's 1*(x^2+1)^(-1), which is not a polynomial due to the -1 power 08:55:42 my UPS thinks the same 08:56:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 08:56:44 mrSpec [~Spec@chello089076137084.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 08:56:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@chello089076137084.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 08:56:44 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:56:47 Yeah actually I don't think I like it either 08:57:17 morning lispers 08:57:20 Borbus: me as a CL programmer would expect calling FLOAT on a rational to return a number 08:57:30 (floating point number, at that) 08:57:55 Borbus: so you're making a symbolic algebra thing? 08:58:18 Borbus: i don't see how (float ) would do that 08:58:30 nikodemus: Yeah, it's an exercise to teach me common lisp, I've already written it in C 08:58:35 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 08:58:40 It's actually for symbolic integration 08:59:06 It's a rational function not a rational number, and it is a formula since it's symbolic not numeric 08:59:22 exactly 08:59:33 but in Common Lisp, rationals are numbers 08:59:37 Borbus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_function 08:59:41 so no need to use them for something else, really 08:59:50 /win 7 09:00:10 jdz: i don't really see what you're objecting to here 09:00:33 I don't understand, how else would I do symbolic operations like integration and differentiation on a rational function 09:00:33 overloading concepts defined in CL 09:00:36 jdz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_function (sorry Borbus) 09:00:56 emm, that was meant for nikodemus 09:01:14 Oh ok, yes I agree about not using the same names for the arithmetic functions now 09:01:23 Borbus: poly:+ doesn't seem so bad, neither generic:+  CL is deeply in need of hierarchical packages 09:01:26 symbolic-algebra:* doing TRT seems eminently sane to me -- who cares if the arguments and result aren't cl:number? 09:01:48 I've never really thought in depth about those C++ libraries, I just assumed it must be a good thing to be ubiquitous.. but then again I'm not sure C++ is a good thing anyway 09:01:54 yes, that's what i said at the very beginning of discussion :) 09:02:09 with the disclaimer of confusing readers of the code 09:02:50 Borbus: How about defining classes such ar ring, field with slots named + - "one" and "zero"? 09:02:54 ok, just crosstalk then :) i thought Bordus already bought into shadowin cl:* &co 09:02:56 if every use of the "overloaded" functions would always be used with the package specifier, i'd have no objections 09:04:36 relcomp: I think that would be the right way to do a full computer algebra system, I think Axiom does something like that 09:04:54 as does maxima... 09:04:57 symbolic algebra is probably the most common thing covered in lisp textbooks 09:04:59 jdz: Yeah I was once bitten by trying to use an eql specializer within a package that shadows cl:eql 09:05:19 That took *quite* some to figure out my mistake 09:05:19 tcr: which package does that? 09:05:23 oh, sorry -- misunderstood what was being said. no, maxima doesn't do anything like that i think 09:05:52 Borbus: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.94.4189&rep=rep1&type=pdf 09:06:23 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:06:28 jdz: The problem was not shadowing cl:eql but rather not to split up the language package from its implementation package 09:06:32 not using package specifiers for stuff is a matter of taste and judgement 09:06:57 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 09:07:17 tcr: oh, meta stuff. always fun. 09:07:23 relcomp: thanks, I will read it 09:07:29 hard and fast rules like "always use the prefix", "never shadow", "shadow willy-nilly and don't ever use an unnecessary prefix" are naive 09:08:34 nikodemus: yes, i agree, "always" is not a requirement 09:08:44 Without hierarchical packages you can pretty much only go the use-prefix route when you have full control of the namespace 09:09:00 nikodemus: what i meant is to minimise the "element of surprise" 09:09:10 that said, i've been bitten by mcclim shadowing defconstant and killing my performance, so... 09:09:28 The other thing that was confusing me was whether I should use inheritance to have polynomial and rational function classes, polynomial IS A rational function, but a rational function actually requires two polynomials to work anyway, I thought the best way to do it would be the same as Lisp does integers and rationals since they are analogous 09:09:47 jdz: agreed. and that must be balanced against the convenience and readability of the code that uses the extended operator 09:09:48 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-35-32.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:11:56 Borbus: why do you need to expose both polynomial and rational expression types? 09:12:17 while we're on the package topic: for some reason i was thinking about libraries and their versions, and how it should be possible to load two [incompatible] versions of the same library into the same image. all one has to do is define packages with version numbers in the name. nicknames can be used to avoid using the numbers. question is: is anybody doing it at the moment? 09:12:30 whoa are we talking about computer algebra right now 09:12:50 Borbus: or just (defclass polynomial () ...) (defclass simple-polynomial (polynomial) ...) (defclass rational-polynomial (polynomial) ...) 09:12:53 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-35-32.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:13:00 pkhuong: yes that is what I thought and in fact in my C version I ended up hiding all of the polynomial stuff anyway 09:13:28 jdz: i've done that. at one point i was going to write a utility for doing it, but never got around to it 09:13:39 Borbus: I was about to start blogging about this very issue, albeit not in Lisp (to my dismay!) 09:13:45 jdz: some people are. But really, if the changes are incompatible, shouldn't you use a different name? 09:13:46 I think I was maybe overthinking it, since I think Lisp exposes integer types as well as rational numbers 09:14:15 pkhuong: i mean incompatible in the major/minor versions (changes in API) 09:14:20 Borbus: sure, but one very seldom dispatches on integer VS rational. 09:14:51 stassats: something for you? https://bugs.launchpad.net/slime/+bug/645032 09:15:06 jdz: in my scheme package has a monotonically increasing .version postfix, and when a package is loaded it checks if it is the latest version and grabs the non-postfix nickname if it is 09:15:16 H4ns` [~user@p579F8A29.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:18 Borbus: What are you writing? 09:15:45 There would be one benefit to having polynomial as well, which is that x/1 can be stored only as one poly instead of two, but that would then require calculating the 1 anyway and then removing it.. probably not worth it 09:16:02 tcr: maybe 09:16:17 Quadrescence: I wrote a program for symbolic integration of rational functions in C, I want to write it in Lisp now 09:16:19 nikodemus: you mean your package frobs the packages in the image with it's own prefix to find other versions of it? 09:16:28 Borbus: Using what algorithm? 09:16:49 Hermite reduction and Lazard-Rioboo-Trager algorithms 09:16:54 Good man 09:17:15 Linear Hermite reduction that is 09:17:20 May I PM you? 09:17:59 When using (asdf-install:install 'clx), is it wise to do a system-wide install? 09:18:06 Yes 09:18:31 Sorry, yes was to Quadrescence 09:18:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:18:59 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-jqemztnhcdzwxuqz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:19:02 lat: it's not wise to use asdf-install 09:19:27 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9E80A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:19:39 stassats, what is best? 09:20:14 clbuild, quicklisp 09:21:12 stassats, thanks. I remember that now. 09:21:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:21:18 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 09:24:19 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 09:28:10 jdz: yes 09:31:09 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-38-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 09:32:26 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:32:31 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-21-223.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:32:31 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yifskljmrcrcwspl] has joined #lisp 09:33:52 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-192.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:36:08 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 09:36:09 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 09:36:09 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:37:00 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:38:58 Yuuhi [benni@p54839AA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:16 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-13-34.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:40:33 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:40:48 -!- qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:42:40 qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 09:45:17 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-13-34.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:26 any recommendations for lisp-friendly server distro? (that is, little issues with setting up etc.) 09:51:58 debian has been good to me. its sbcl is usually recent, and its other lisp packages are generally well-curated 09:52:29 hmm... so I guess I'll go with Debian stable 09:52:48 and eventually setup my own lisp 09:52:53 stable? that's not exciting enough 09:52:57 *arbscht* has only ever run lisp on debian testing 09:53:01 stassats: production server 09:55:09 replacing a windows xp based abomination 09:56:06 "lisp-friendly"? any linux is sufficiently sbcl friendly... unless you want to use the distro's lisp packages, but i don't recomment that anyways 09:56:58 Why not? 09:57:40 Odin-: because they're never up-to-date 09:57:47 Odin-: more often than not they can be "weird" as well 09:57:48 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757fef.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:04 p_l: Weird how? 09:59:15 tainted by CLC 09:59:32 meingbg [~meingbg@axsv070.gsnet.se] has joined #lisp 10:01:41 though supposedly the new CLC is sane now, thanks to ASDF2 10:03:09 p_l: So I can safely return to the Debian packages and drop clbuild? 10:03:58 relcomp: doubtful :P 10:04:09 clc may be more sane, but debian lisp packages are still insanely old 10:04:15 yeah 10:04:40 maus [~maus@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:51 Good afternoon! 10:04:53 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:04:58 drewc: you mentioned that your new web code might be available to interested people. Could I get a copy? (Investigating for the ERP tool, seems it will go Lisp) 10:05:51 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:06:12 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:14 -!- meingbg [~meingbg@axsv070.gsnet.se] has left #lisp 10:07:28 *relcomp* types (shiftf dim (1+ dim)) which should resemble dim++ in C. 10:08:14 (incf dim)? 10:08:39 relcomp: Yes it does 10:08:48 stassats: but it should return the previous value of dim. 10:09:11 relcomp: (prog1 dim (incf dim)) 10:09:48 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-103-230.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:02 unless you are contesting in "clever, but hard to understand code competition" 10:10:16 *relcomp* types (prog1 dim (incf dim)) and prefers it. Thanks 10:10:54 though, (1- (incf dim)) is more clever 10:10:56 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-62-164.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:11:22 stassats: and slower 10:11:27 no. it increments and then decrements. doesn't that cost more? 10:11:30 I use that shiftf thingie all the time 10:11:34 relcomp: it does. 10:11:46 sytse: not in SSC 10:12:00 No reason to eschew shiftf :-) 10:12:03 wtb SSCL 10:12:38 tcr: no reason to use it in that case 10:13:44 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:14:13 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: work work] 10:15:40 Might distress you, but I think it's more idiomatic 10:15:40 *sytse* thinks the shiftf one is the most discoverable, but as ususal, YMMV :) 10:16:39 I dropped it altogether now: (foo-using-dim ... dim ...) (incf dim). 10:16:54 yeah, that's what I usually do I guess 10:17:33 idiomatic? i've never seen it 10:19:12 even if it is, what's the purpose of an idiom which doesn't make it neither clearer nor shorter? 10:19:58 if it doesn't make it neither clearer nor shorter, which one does it? 10:19:59 ;p 10:20:03 It's what SHIFTF is for 10:20:36 sytse: (prog1 foo (incf foo)) 10:20:42 If you were more used to shiftf, you'd probably find it clearer 10:20:59 you can say that about anything 10:21:01 I often use (shiftf accumulated-objects ()) in the update clause of a do-list: crop the objects an reset the list to empty. 10:21:09 stassats: I meant (in a purposefully confusing way), does the idiom make it clearer or shorter, or both? 10:21:39 stassats: Sure, the point is it's idiomatic because it uses a standardized operator exactly for that purpose 10:21:47 stassats: if it doesn't *neither* make it clearer or shorter, meaning (not (not (and clearer shorter))) 10:22:09 tcr: oh! There I was, thinking that shiftf was for.. shifting variables onwards one position.. 10:22:14 tcr: apparently, I was wrong ;-) 10:22:56 tcr: if it's there, it doesn't mean you should use it 10:23:43 I didn't want to start a shiftf war. 10:23:54 (shiftf left node (binary-tree-rlink node)) <-- that was the last time I used shiftf, for going right (going down is (shiftf up node (binary-tree-llink node))) 10:24:03 so that's not what shiftf is meant for, interesting.. 10:24:06 ;-) 10:24:06 You can use whatever you want. I take gripe by trying to tell people it's not idiomatic. 10:26:08 for whatever you want, huh.. so according to you, the whole let vs let* and flet vs labels argument for when you use them in a way that both would work, is moot, and using each is equally good? 10:27:04 ie using let* without referring to bindings you're defining within the bindings themselves 10:27:29 or am I taking it too far now ;-) 10:27:58 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:28:19 let* concerns style, the thing with shiftf vs prog1+incf was that it concerns clarity 10:28:32 guther [guther@92-55-242-227.net.pbthawe.eu] has joined #lisp 10:29:29 stassats: I prefer using a style that improves clarity :P 10:29:39 isn't that what style is for? 10:29:50 or do you want to get horny when you look at lisp code :P 10:30:07 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:30:26 they do intersect, but that wasn't what i'm against 10:30:28 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 10:30:49 stassats: If oyu're unused to FORMAT it's all just gibberish, although it can be perfectly clear when you're used to it. 10:30:52 stassats: I suppose it's highly personal.. 10:31:14 zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:31:15 sytse: you can say that about anything 10:31:20 true :D 10:31:38 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-135-151.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:32:17 still, I think neither of the shiftf and prog1 examples is really better than the other one 10:32:53 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has left #lisp 10:33:47 sytse: i don't argue which is better, but which is more clear 10:34:03 with both operators it's perfectly clear that you get the first argument as a result, however, I like the 'shifting' paradigm better than the 'side effects' paradigm because of clarity reasons, so in general I'd prefer using shiftf when that removes the need for side effects 10:34:19 stassats: sorry, I meant 'better' in terms of clarity 10:34:57 shiftf is 'side effecting' "paradigm" 10:35:10 shiftf does all the side effects by itself 10:35:13 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:34 who does sid effects for incf? 10:35:52 using prog1 together with incf, makes prog1 do the returning part, and incf do the side effects, which I think might be less clear (not in this case, but definitely in more complicated code) 10:37:25 i don't understand that point 10:37:57 because with shiftf, you can instantly see the kind of side effects the whole block has, but with prog1 you have to look through the code in order to be able to see which side effects, if any, can be a result of executing the prog1 (again, not really a good point with an example this simple) 10:39:46 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:39:49 when you see (prog1 10:40:09 and then foo 10:40:37 you still don't know that the sexp has side-effects until you read the next line, (incf foo)) 10:41:14 but when you see (shiftf, you immediately know it has side effects, and have a vague idea of what kind 10:41:42 i still think that's contrived 10:42:48 I don't. :P 10:42:52 ah well 10:42:54 sytse: shiftf=>side effect is a good point. 10:43:12 as for "more clear when used too" argument, i don't see the point in using something different when it doesn't add any value 10:43:36 I don't care enough about the whole shiftf vs prog1 thing to belabor the point ad nauseam anyway.. 10:43:42 s/too/to/ 10:44:25 *relcomp* fixed a bug, ignores all incf stuff and proceeds to the next eror... 10:44:33 :P 10:45:17 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 10:45:29 mm.. I should finish my argp equivalent for CL this week, it's been lying around way too long 10:46:30 (the CL getopt I found was pure garbage, so I decided to make something better.. which I already have, but I still need to implement an automatic --usage/--help function) 10:46:55 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:47:02 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:47:19 does anyone here make command line programs with common lisp at all btw? 10:48:07 minion: buildapp? 10:48:08 buildapp: Buildapp is an application for SBCL that configures and saves an executable Common Lisp image. http://www.cliki.net/buildapp 10:48:52 though, it doesn't they have to command-line 10:48:58 doesn't mean 10:51:10 I was just asking to see if there would be people here interested in a good, easy-to-use and powerful getopt implementation for common lisp 10:51:37 ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 10:52:34 -!- micro- is now known as `micro 10:52:40 ..which buildapp could definitely make good use of.. 10:52:48 (string-equal (second argv) "--help") <-- I mean, that's just sad.. 10:53:43 sytse: never used this, but http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-cli-parser/ 10:53:50 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:54:04 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:54:20 sytse: I ended up writing shell wrappers that parse cmd line options to keyword args because sbcl's startup time is quite horrendeous 10:54:41 Don't want to wait seconds for USAGE 10:55:18 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:55:25 hargettp: it's not good enough iirc, I'll have another look at it to see if I can merge some ideas though 10:55:36 tcr: :P 10:55:38 sytse: :) 10:56:29 tcr: that's no problem with buildapp or using sbcl's save-lisp-and-die though 10:57:00 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:59:12 I went a bit all-out with my implementation btw, even including a complete trie implementation just in order to automatically generate abbreviations for longopts (so when you have --help and --head, it accepts --hel for --help and --hea for --head) 11:02:17 I'd find that annoying 11:02:54 why? 11:03:03 btw, you can disable that behavior with an option of course 11:03:34 tcr: if sbcl's startup time is seconds, you're doing something wrong 11:03:57 it's standard GNU behavior too 11:04:32 fmu_ [89@unaffiliated/fmu] has joined #lisp 11:04:48 jsnell: like using clos? 11:05:16 running in vmware probably also adds up 11:05:18 that should be irrelevant for sbcl's startup time 11:05:29 clos use, that is 11:05:41 Uh well it loads all the stuff at start up 11:06:08 Fair enough 11:07:06 tcr: if it's just seconds, you're fine (: 11:07:18 I remember rails projects that took a full minute to load (: 11:08:38 ruby? 11:09:08 yeah (: 11:10:05 yeah, RoR is terrible.. I don't like it at all (in any way) 11:10:10 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yifskljmrcrcwspl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:10:14 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 11:10:14 I guess I have a thing against frameworks or sth 11:10:28 Blkt [~user@160.80.135.101] has joined #lisp 11:10:48 most stuff it does is fine (at least as far as establishing conventions goes), but the time it takes to run one single test in a large project is ridiculous. 11:11:46 -!- segyr [~terje@79.85-200-235.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: segyr] 11:12:56 antifuchs: We come to a point where we need regression tests for a webgui; you've got quite some experience with that, don't you? 11:13:30 -!- maus [~maus@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:11 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-15-104.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:17:44 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:18:36 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:18 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:11 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:26:08 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-126-250.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:26:56 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 11:28:03 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 11:29:29 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:31:23 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:32:34 gaelle_ [~gaelle@ARennes-359-1-51-42.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:34:47 hello 11:35:15 xan_ [~xan@46.204.192.61.tokyo.bflets.alpha-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:35:38 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-15-104.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:36:17 i need some help with a function myposition that returns the position of an element (without the use of "member"), here is the code but doesn't work :-[ 11:36:22 http://pastebin.com/BE726sxX 11:36:38 clhs position 11:36:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_pos_p.htm 11:36:44 error : (myposition 'c '(a b c d e f)) 11:36:44 nil 11:36:44 11:36:46 ok 11:37:05 i have to create this function with myposition 11:37:38 it works only with "member" and i want it without... 11:38:30 the error comes from the second case 11:41:18 gaelle_: why are you comparing the element with the cdr of the list? 11:43:25 gaelle_: you could try to express your idea for the algorithm in english, then it should be pretty easy to translate to Lisp code 11:43:42 if the element is not in car liste and not in cdr liste --> nil 11:43:55 n is not in the list 11:44:14 gaelle_: Make a walk-through with arguments 'c and '(a b c ...) on a sheet of paper. 11:48:55 navigator [~navigator@p54896ED1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:30 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 11:50:15 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:51:41 -!- linux-m00n [~oseba@89-212-156-60.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:51:51 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:53:24 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 11:54:08 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:31 -!- darkmag [~vfalico@ip-94-112-36-51.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:37 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:32 lnostdal_ [~quassel@222.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:02:49 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:03:38 attila_lendvai: hi 12:03:44 darkmag [~vfalico@ip-94-112-36-51.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:03:46 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 12:03:46 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 12:03:46 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:05:38 -!- MagBo [~Sweater@87.246.131.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:38 hlavaty`: hi 12:08:18 logia_th [~nmo@81.34.121.77] has joined #lisp 12:08:19 -!- Blkt [~user@160.80.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:09:30 maus [~maus@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:42 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-59-145.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:12:43 -!- gaelle_ [~gaelle@ARennes-359-1-51-42.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 12:13:46 attila_lendvai: how's life in hungary? i'm going there for a week tonight ;-) 12:14:28 hlavaty`: oh, good to hear! it's surprisingly shiny here, and will be until the weekend... will you be in budapest? 12:15:16 i'll be in budapest from sunday evening till tuesday 12:15:25 I will be over here, if you need me. 12:15:25 Xach, memo from fusss: cl-pdf depends on salza (not salza2), but it bundles it instead of just using it as a dependency. I made a few tweaks to get it working on ccl and abcl; do I send patches to you or Mark? 12:15:28 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:15:47 if you will have empty timeslots it would be nice to meet up, maybe even to organize a "lisp meeting" (which is usually just 3-5 people at most) 12:16:22 that would be great! 12:16:27 minion, memo for fuss: salza is moldy. if you want to be super-helpful, send marc patches to make it use salza2. 12:16:27 Remembered. I'll tell fuss when he/she/it next speaks. 12:16:33 darn it 12:16:37 minion, memo for fusss: salza is moldy. if you want to be super-helpful, send marc patches to make it use salza2. 12:16:37 Remembered. I'll tell fusss when he/she/it next speaks. 12:17:24 attila_lendvai: are there any other lispers in budapest except you hu.dwim guyes? 12:17:32 hlavaty`: any preference about the timing? 12:18:17 hlavaty`: well, not too many. the infamous sbcl hacker, mega1 for sure. otherwise just a few enhusiasts... 12:18:45 hlavaty`: i'm not going to be in the city on sunday 12:20:59 attila_lendvai: i was just about to say sunday or monday evening. so monday evening? 12:22:20 hlavaty`: sounds good. i'll start advertising then a night in www.ifkavezo.hu (the owner used to be my math teacher in university :) what time? starting around 7pm? 12:23:30 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:24:05 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:27:01 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:34:31 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-126-250.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:39:28 urandom__ [~user@p548A2D70.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:27 http://scrivle.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/a-smug-geek-we-abhor-1024x768.png makes me smile 12:41:37 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:41:41 rrice [~rrice@adsl-76-253-135-9.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:18 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:44:02 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-126-250.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:45:30 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:46:58 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:49:43 How was the Boston Lisp Meeting on monday? 12:49:58 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:08 jeyr [~jeyr@117.199.2.195] has joined #lisp 12:50:49 It lost to a screening of _Brazil_ at the Coolidge for me. 12:54:45 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:54:50 *Xach* hopes nothing good is playing at the Coolidge for ILC2010! 12:54:50 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:50 Yeah, that would really pull the attendees away from Nevada. 12:57:32 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:48 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nhaiuerighzylxsb] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:59:51 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:58 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 13:04:46 sellout [~greg@64.134.67.13] has joined #lisp 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:29 konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has joined #lisp 13:10:45 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 13:11:33 -!- jeyr [~jeyr@117.199.2.195] has quit [Quit: jeyr] 13:11:51 yakov 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[~tfb@92.41.250.9.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:11:10 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-27-113.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:13:39 Hmm, slime has forgotten how to indent defmethod. 14:13:46 redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:13:50 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:14:21 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: Eish!] 14:15:32 *Xach* restarts, wonders what happened 14:15:56 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 14:16:41 -!- logia_th [~nmo@81.34.121.77] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 14:17:01 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255273.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:20:02 tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:51 Xach: i have seen that, too. i think it's one of the modules from slime-fancy. 14:21:14 Xach: probably slime-indentation 14:21:55 -!- lnostdal_ is now known as lnostdal 14:22:59 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.112.83.91.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:27 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:25:11 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:49 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.163.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:28:27 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-250-94.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:28:56 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757fef.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:02 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AB70.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:49 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AB70.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:35 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:40:02 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.67.13] has quit [Quit: sellout] 14:40:30 -!- gnooth [~test@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:43:26 gnooth [~test@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined 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#lisp 15:14:40 fusss [~chatzilla@cpe-184-59-202-37.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:15:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has left #lisp 15:15:48 heh, I meant to join #java. damn you muscle memory! 15:15:48 fusss, memo from Xach: salza is moldy. if you want to be super-helpful, send marc patches to make it use salza2. 15:16:14 Is Destructuring-bind (in compiled code) meant to runtime-test the validity of what it is provided? Or are results of giving it a bad list to destructure undefined? 15:17:33 clhs destructuring-bind 15:17:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_destru.htm 15:17:49 Modius: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_eag.htm 15:18:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 15:18:49 Xach: on it now! Re: cl-pdf 15:18:50 Xach: you have a bookmark for that? 15:18:53 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:58 tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has joined #lisp 15:19:12 jdz: Xach remembers it 15:19:17 Then, my question is - has anyone written an (obviously less performant) equivalent of destructuring-bind that validates against the parameters? 15:19:30 tritchey_ [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has joined #lisp 15:19:30 A destructuring-bind in a library that validates at runtime 15:19:30 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:31 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 15:20:03 an error *should* be signaled, so implementations must signal an error in safe mode, and are free in unsafe mode 15:20:27 tritchey_ [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has joined #lisp 15:20:27 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:28 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 15:20:29 jdz: it was just a few clicks away from the first place i looked 15:21:30 Modius: did you read the provided url(s)? 15:21:35 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:26:35 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:38 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:28:15 tritchey_ [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has joined #lisp 15:28:30 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:30 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 15:28:52 frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:04 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:29:37 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:30:36 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:16 tritchey_ [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has joined #lisp 15:35:16 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:17 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 15:39:01 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.7/20100908093153]] 15:39:55 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:41:11 minion: memo for luis: Luis, I have trivial-features patch to make it work on abcl, but the tests fail because they depend on cffi. Can I patch trivial-feautures-test to NOP out the tests or do them in pure CL? 15:41:11 Remembered. I'll tell luis when he/she/it next speaks. 15:41:43 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:42:12 pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-214-153.wireless.concordia.ca] has joined #lisp 15:42:41 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:41 tritchey_ [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has joined #lisp 15:42:42 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 15:43:10 tritchey_ [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has joined #lisp 15:43:10 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:12 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 15:43:38 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 15:43:53 Good evening everyone! 15:44:35 hey beach 15:46:26 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:27 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:32 tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has joined #lisp 15:48:05 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:00 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-14-238.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:50:01 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Client Quit] 15:50:18 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-60-174.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:50:34 is there another name for #\Nul? 15:50:43 #\Null 15:51:13 can't I use (code-char 0) instead? 15:51:33 hmmmm 15:51:41 stassats: you're right, and that's weird 15:51:47 you can, but you have no guarantees 15:52:03 (it's not weird that you're right, it's weird the #\Null is exists and == #\Nul) 15:52:22 what's so weird about it? 15:52:42 Yeah, you never know when you might want to run your lisp software on a non-ASCII/non-EBCDIC system! 15:52:46 <_3b> if the goal is to have a character with character code 0, (code-char 0) is probably better than #\nul 15:52:52 Gotta be careful not to hard-code those NULs! 15:52:53 i always thought Nul == an specific character in ascii. Null = null pointer. at least that's my ancient C terminology 15:53:25 _3b: in this it is. sort of bzero or memset(buf, 0 ..) 15:53:27 _3b: if you want it portably, then it definitely is (: 15:53:38 there should be #\Nil #\Nada #\Zilch #\Zero 15:53:49 <_3b> nul is a specific character, specifically null, 15:53:50 -!- Blkt [~user@160.80.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:53:59 there's nothing more or less portable about 0 than #\nul. 15:54:25 No software will ever run on a system where that isn't true. 15:54:45 gaelle_ [~gaelle@ARennes-359-1-95-179.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:54:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-96.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:55:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:09 hmmm, cl-pdf, babel, trivial-features and flexichain. not a bad portathon morning for abcl. 15:57:00 -!- hlavaty` [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 15:57:08 -!- maus [~maus@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Bye bye!] 15:58:03 foom: it's not in 13.1.7, and ISTR clisp didn't have a name for the null character, at least a while ago 15:58:31 whatever character name there is for (code-char 0) is by gentlebeings' agreement among implementors (: 15:58:48 now it has (char= #\Nul #\Null (code-char 0)) => T 15:58:52 antifuchs: uh...wow! Nevermind then, code-char 0 it is. :) 15:59:17 brandonz [~brandon@pool-74-97-30-61.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:17 sheesh, crazy standads 15:59:41 heh 16:00:02 stassats: good to know 16:00:14 only ABCL doesn't have #\Nul 16:01:56 fe[nl]ix: I'm seeing an odd failure with iolib 0.7.1 and cffi from git. 16:02:29 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:12 guyal [~guyal@166.205.139.25] has joined #lisp 16:03:51 older cffi had (defun cffi::foreign-name (spec &optional varp) ...), new one eliminates &optional. That causes a problem I'm not sure how to isolate with ffi-wrappers-unix.lisp 16:04:23 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host79-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:04:34 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsleq128.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:04:48 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:04:55 *Xach* tries to distill it down 16:07:53 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-183-29.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:07 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-183-29.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:05 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-42-37.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:09:10 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-42-37.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:10:36 fe[nl]ix: same with lisp-name... 16:10:43 cffi::lisp-name, that is 16:11:49 hmm, maybe i should switch to 0.10.6. 16:11:55 i had the impression that the release was very old. 16:13:51 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:13:55 Greetings lispers. 16:14:02 hello tmh 16:14:15 Hey beach 16:15:07 -!- guyal [~guyal@166.205.139.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:15:07 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-214-153.wireless.concordia.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:16:32 ephcon [~ephcon@64.254.166.242] has joined #lisp 16:18:53 *Xach* wonders how clbuilders are faring with cffi and iolib from version control 16:19:29 i don't update unless i'm forced to 16:19:35 or if i'm bored 16:20:12 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:20:21 cffi 0.10.6 and iolib 0.7.1 appear to work properly together. phew! 16:20:44 <_8david> IIANM, clbuild still points to cffi from darcs, not git 16:22:24 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:01 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@64.254.166.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:23:15 Jabberwockey [~jens@hmbg-5f77dc64.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:35 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 16:26:40 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:27:51 -!- brandonz [~brandon@pool-74-97-30-61.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:28:55 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:30:11 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 16:32:34 <_8david> indeed, clbuild only works because it has an "old" cffi 16:35:13 Ah, the old release versus repository debate. Go! 16:35:51 <_8david> tmh: no, absolutely not. It's "old repo" vs. recently set up "new repo" for the same project. 16:36:36 kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:42 pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-214-153.wireless.concordia.ca] has joined #lisp 16:37:01 Well, if there were releases and clbuild was tied to releases, the type and place of the repository would be irrelevant. 16:37:24 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 16:37:27 Umm, s/was/were/, sorry for the lack of grammar. 16:37:34 *tmh* drinks some more coffee. 16:37:35 *p_l* managed to get through the hardest part of getting Lisp on a paid project 16:37:58 p_l: Forgiveness is easier than permission? 16:37:59 surprisingly, the things necessary weren't Lisp related, but sanity-related. 16:38:00 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:07 tmh: no, I've got a normal server 16:38:21 afk - work -> home 16:38:34 p_l: What's the hardest part, you say? 16:42:48 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-13-34.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:42:50 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-214-153.wireless.concordia.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:44:15 -!- antiwiener [~antiwiene@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: antiwiener] 16:46:34 or you just have the cursor somewhere inside the {} and press ci{ 16:46:54 deletes everything inside (but not including) the {}, and leaves you in insert mode 16:47:01 oops wrong channel 16:47:20 Heh, I was lost, but that's not unusual. 16:48:26 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-64-82-131.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:07 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:49:32 -!- OliverUv_ is now known as OliverUv 16:50:06 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:50:17 -!- OliverUv is now known as OliverUv_ 16:50:43 -!- OliverUv_ is now known as OliverUv 16:51:00 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:53:47 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:56:35 josemanuel [~josemanue@214.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:57:15 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-238-79.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:00:26 stassats: no slime goodie for me today? :-) 17:03:26 tmh: have you tried quicklisp? 17:04:06 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-126-250.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:04:15 Xach: I have not. Let me look quickly and refresh my memory on why not. 17:04:19 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 17:04:31 Well, it's top-secret, for one. 17:05:14 it takes a kind of hybrid approach to releases. some projects come from cvs, some come from "normal" releases. 17:06:23 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:42 is (psetf p1 f1 p2 f2) == (setf (values p1 p2) (values f1 f2)) ? 17:06:47 MagBo [~Sweater@87.246.131.149] has joined #lisp 17:07:09 -!- MagBo is now known as Gabriel[Mnk1][Dr 17:07:14 basically. 17:07:26 -!- Gabriel[Mnk1][Dr is now known as Tosh[Mnk1][Drd1] 17:07:56 (other than the return value) 17:07:58 fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a85-138-211-37.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 17:07:59 pjb: thanks 17:08:12 pmd: modulo the fact that forms are evaluated in order, so since you change the order, the meaning may be different. 17:09:13 pjb: interesting, haven't thought about that 17:09:20 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:09:53 Xach: Heh, top-secret. I saw your announcements, but never followed up on trying it. I'm in the mode of just grabbing libraries by hand. My primary development environment is LispWorks on Winders. If you need someone to run Quicklisp through that, I'll give it a try. 17:10:41 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:11:08 tmh: That'd be helpful, actually. I think I have a bug in my LispWorks networking stuff. If you're inclined, hop on #quicklisp and I can give you the details for trying it. 17:11:11 fusss: around? 17:11:11 luis, memo from fusss: Luis, I have trivial-features patch to make it work on abcl, but the tests fail because they depend on cffi. Can I patch trivial-feautures-test to NOP out the tests or do them in pure CL? 17:11:21 tmh: You can try it without interfering with anything else you have installed. 17:11:45 luis: yes 17:11:52 Xach: Excellent. I'll see you on #quicklisp. 17:12:09 fusss: CFFI should work on ABCL, but depends on some library whose name I forget. 17:12:36 fusss: but if you have a good way to implement those tests in pure(r) CL, that'd be nice. 17:12:40 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 17:12:44 luis: "Sorry, this Lisp is not yet supported. Patches welcome!" 17:13:14 luis: yes, it's trivial with abcl, you just read from the java system properties 17:13:18 tcr: don't know if i'll be in the mood for slime hacking later today 17:13:24 antiwiener [~antiwiene@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 17:13:58 luis: I am not sure how abcl could possibly use CFFI .. JNI? 17:14:13 it's own native jffi is better than anything native 17:14:33 -!- antiwiener is now known as brandlee 17:14:36 -!- brandlee [~antiwiene@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 17:14:52 brandlee [~antiwiene@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 17:15:07 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@hmbg-5f77dc64.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:15:24 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 17:17:13 Bronsa [~bronsa@host79-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:17:57 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:19:00 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255273.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:20:35 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:18 dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has joined #lisp 17:21:18 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has quit [Changing host] 17:21:18 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 17:23:27 -!- xan_ [~xan@46.204.192.61.tokyo.bflets.alpha-net.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:24:20 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:24:33 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 17:24:46 people people, rewriting a function as a macro in order to have it "inlined" is annoying, so stop! 17:25:26 anonymouse89 [~anonymous@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:50 sepp2k [~sexy@p548CB340.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:12 -!- Tosh[Mnk1][Drd1] is now known as Tosh_Warfield[Dr 17:27:20 -!- Tosh_Warfield[Dr is now known as Tosh[Drd] 17:27:46 Quadrescence: amen to that 17:28:25 seeing defmacro just makes me pause longer and expect something bigger 17:28:42 is this in reference to the discussion on the pro list? 17:29:02 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-55-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:30:25 the pro list is top secret also 17:30:38 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-60-174.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:30:53 Odin-: the hardest part was a) seeing the current application b) getting a working production environment in a way that didn't interrupt other's work 17:31:26 and b) was hard because there was only one machine and no time to to prepare complete "untar and run" OS 17:33:06 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.59.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:33:15 as for Lisp, the last thing is to ensure that tech.coop picks the pieces in case of me getting hit by bus :P 17:33:26 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:34:11 pieces of you splattered on a sidewalk? 17:34:18 stassats: no, the code 17:34:30 Just as a curiosity, suppose an implementation of lisp did not support arbitrary precision integers, and suppose you implemented arbitrary precision integers in lisp itself. Is it possible to integrate them syntactically so long integer literals would be parsed into bignums automagically and use the said library? 17:34:36 the flesh goes for salvaging of still usable organs 17:34:46 I guess you could perhaps do some reader razz-ma-tazz 17:34:52 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:34:56 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.146.191] has joined #lisp 17:35:27 p_l: to connect them to a Lisp Powered Brain? 17:35:29 Quadrescence: you'd need either to reimplement a bit, or use some way to add it directly 17:35:30 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:35:51 stassats: no, if I get Lisp Powered Brain, it means I no longer need flesh :P 17:36:12 (I'd use nanotech-based body) 17:37:19 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:42 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-244-170.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:40:10 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@cpe-184-59-202-37.new.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 17:40:30 Quadrescence: either you use the one reader macro for each character, or you patch the sources of your implementation. In the later case, I would advise to patch them once for all with a READCASE-PARSE-TOKEN hook, so you don't have to patch them over and over for every such extensions... 17:40:44 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.49.249] has joined #lisp 17:41:02 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host79-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:41:57 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-92.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:42:35 *Xach* runs into problems with usocket and usocket-udp this time. 17:45:44 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-92.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:46:01 pjb: I don't plan to; I was just wondering. 17:46:13 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.250.9.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 17:46:18 Also, I might add that the little REPL animation upon starting SLIME never gets old. 17:46:30 Hacks and glory await! 17:47:09 *stassats* disabled it a long time ago, it's slowing down sturtup 17:48:33 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@214.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 17:48:47 *p_l* reenabled it after some time... 17:53:41 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:55:41 if i won't get my cl reference book i'll get crazy... 18:01:08 "book", eh? 18:01:22 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:29 tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has joined #lisp 18:04:38 valvola [~val@host7-248-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:06:02 This? http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/56465842 18:06:36 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:07:46 Hello LiamH. 18:07:54 Hi tmh 18:08:39 Do you know if anyone has tried the fix for the literal function bug in lisp-unit? 18:08:48 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:08:58 tmh: I thought you were... 18:09:49 Xach: iolib HEAD requires cffi HEAD, and 0.7.1 requires 0.10.6 18:10:25 fe[nl]ix: thanks. 18:11:33 LiamH: Hmmm. I created some rudimentary internal testing for lisp-unit, wrote the fix and tested using the internal routines. Didn't realize anyone was wanting me to test it against GSLL. 18:12:01 I've not even tried GSLL using LispWorks on Winders. 18:12:20 tmh: now I'm confused, I thought this was a lisp-unit bug. I can certaintly test a new version against GSLL if you want. 18:12:52 Ah I misread your original question 18:13:54 I will test it, but whatever the GSLL test was that triggered the problem has been removed. Not be because of the bug but because it became obsolete for other reasons. 18:15:12 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-134-127.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:55 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255273.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:18:03 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.146.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:19:36 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.67.91] has joined #lisp 18:20:13 _8david: what is your favorite dwim.hu project? 18:21:59 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255273.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:24:54 perec, I wager 18:25:28 nooo 18:25:32 anything but perec :( 18:27:14 what's wrong with perec ? 18:27:17 -!- fe[nl]ix changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.42, CFFI 0.10.6, IOLib 0.7.1 18:28:07 Well, nothing in particular. It uses a forked & modified version of metacopy. 18:28:44 Lots of other seemingly useful things don't require the forked & modified versions. 18:30:17 minion: memo for fusss: CFFI works in ABCL using JNI and libffi, the point is to get at C libs, not Java, so it's different from jffi. 18:30:17 Remembered. I'll tell fusss when he/she/it next speaks. 18:30:45 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.24.124] has joined #lisp 18:32:27 *Xach* finds that metacopy is not used by any other projects, switches to the dwim.hu version 18:34:25 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:36:36 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:23 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:40:34 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:08 tmh: I pulled cea45ffab2 and it looks good on GSLL tests. 18:41:21 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:42:00 tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.41] has joined #lisp 18:43:11 HG` [~HG@xdsleq128.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:45:58 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:48:14 I have an auxiliary file to a package that has a bunch of misc. data in sexps. Is it best to just (LOAD "aux.lisp") this in the file that is using it? 18:49:13 it's best to use ASDF 18:51:40 Guess there's no better time to learn ASDF than right now. 18:51:52 LiamH: Thanks, just got off a phone call. That's the master branch, there is no fix there. 18:52:18 tmh: gulp, sorry, will switch branch 18:52:24 LiamH: Where do you use and develop GSLL? 18:52:37 tmh: what do you mean? 18:52:48 Sorry, OS and lisp implementation. 18:53:03 linux, SBCL 1.0.40 18:53:40 Yeah, that would be my preferred rig as well. Anyway, maybe I can play with it on Winders and provide feedback there. Do you have any feedback from people on Winders? 18:54:04 *Quadrescence* laughs at "Winders". 18:54:36 *tmh* smiles 18:54:47 It always brings a smirk to my mouth when I use winders. 18:55:00 tmh: in general, only a little; Mirko Vukovic runs it on SBCL/Linux and CLISP/Windows. However I've tried a bit with CLISP on linux and finds it in poor shape. 18:56:01 Ok. I'll see what I get with LispWorks and CCL 64bit for starters. If I had any free time, I'd get back to building SBCL with the MS SDK. I'm pretty far behind on other stuff, though. 18:56:11 There's an unrepaired bug in CLISP that was first logged in 2003 that is marked in the initial entry as "long standing". 18:56:26 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-55-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:56:51 I did a workaround, but I don't feel like spending a lot of time doing that. 18:57:06 -!- Intensity [ZNm0b7mNTs@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:24 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B3261B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:33 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-39-54.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:58:48 tmh: OK, 87323cbad looks good. 18:59:10 despite what the hash seems to imply 18:59:25 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 18:59:39 Krystof [~csr21@92.25.27.204] has joined #lisp 18:59:47 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:00:09 LiamH: Good. That was a good bug because it forced me to come up with some scheme for testing the unit testing framework. I think I've got a good idea, now, how to test the core functions, macros, and assertions in lisp-unit. 19:00:13 Funny hash. 19:00:35 -!- valvola [~val@host7-248-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:00:52 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B1C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:00:54 tmh: Cool. Are you going to merge that branch into master? 19:01:52 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757fef.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:05 LiamH: Eventually I'll merge both the bug fix and the internal testing into master. I'm only holding off on the bug fix because I can't think of enough ways to test it. 19:02:45 LiamH: I ran it on my always nearly released linear algebra library and it ran fine. It's run fine on GSLL, so maybe we should call it good. 19:02:51 tmh: OK, I guess there is no urgency from GSLL's point of view, because I said the offending test was removed for other reasons. 19:03:18 What were the other reasons? 19:03:52 I can't remember exactly; I think mostly stylistic. 19:04:04 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:05 The new test is easier to follow. 19:04:55 Ah, ok. I already have a refinement I want to make to the internal testing branch. I don't think I'm going to merge the internal testing branch into the master until it covers everything in lisp-unit.lisp. 19:05:04 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:05:14 tmh: OK, that sounds good 19:05:26 Intensity [Jc9DaehUOZ@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 19:06:26 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:52 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:07:30 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 19:08:13 brandonz [~brandon@pool-74-97-30-61.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:32 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:13 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@222.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:11:14 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:49 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 19:13:13 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.112.83.91.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:14:59 tritchey_ [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has joined #lisp 19:15:59 Guthur [~michael@cpc1-belf4-0-0-cust889.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:16:03 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a85-138-211-37.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:16:19 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:28 tritchey_ [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has joined #lisp 19:17:10 -!- Guthur [~michael@cpc1-belf4-0-0-cust889.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:17:42 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 19:17:43 tritchey__ [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has joined #lisp 19:17:45 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:55 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:14 -!- tritchey__ [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:37 Any of you use a custom initialization file for sbcl? Does it load automatically? 19:20:12 Seems like it does load automatically :) 19:20:27 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:20:39 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsleq128.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:20:46 *Xach* uses one a million times per day 19:21:04 Xach: SBCL crashes that often? ;) 19:21:29 Demosthenes [~demo@12.0.194.4] has joined #lisp 19:21:43 tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has joined #lisp 19:23:45 *stassats* embeds initialization files into a custom core 19:24:18 sellout: ffi crashes sbcl fairly often for me 19:26:09 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 19:26:24 stassats: You can't really blame SBCL for that, can you? 19:28:19 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:28:59 hello, i've got a problem with a function in lisp http://pastebin.com/Ycx6BGXb , the aim is to give the position of the element in a list, or if the element doesn't exist -> nil 19:28:59 gaelle_, memo from pjb: have a look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/114777 19:28:59 the function is ok when element doesn't exist, 'a '(a b c) -> 0 (ok) but 'b '(a b c) is also 0... someone can help me ? thanks :-) 19:29:28 tritchey_ [~tritchey@12.43.172.41] has joined #lisp 19:29:58 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:30:20 sellout: well, i can! 19:30:36 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 19:30:53 it'd be better if it was resilient to such misfortunes 19:31:55 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:31:55 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 19:32:53 I'd blame the maintainers instead 19:32:55 lazy buggers 19:33:24 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:25 i don't care who to blame, as long as it's not me 19:33:49 that seems sensible 19:33:52 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 19:33:58 I often take that line 19:34:33 I see politics in stassats future. 19:39:26 Marshalrusty|NB [~Marshalru@phpbb/manager/pdpc.21for7.marshalrusty] has joined #lisp 19:45:14 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 19:47:09 -!- Marshalrusty|NB [~Marshalru@phpbb/manager/pdpc.21for7.marshalrusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:52:21 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:54:19 -!- benny [~user@i577A7833.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:56:41 Marshalrusty|NB [~Marshalru@phpbb/manager/pdpc.21for7.marshalrusty] has joined #lisp 19:58:01 -!- Krystof [~csr21@92.25.27.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:58:05 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:58:50 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:08 -!- gaelle_ [~gaelle@ARennes-359-1-95-179.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 20:01:59 timor [~timor@port-92-195-169-252.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:02:00 -!- Marshalrusty|NB [~Marshalru@phpbb/manager/pdpc.21for7.marshalrusty] has quit [Quit: Viva la phpBB] 20:02:03 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 20:04:08 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:21 bgs100 [~ian@h36.239.22.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:21 -!- bgs100 [~ian@h36.239.22.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:05:21 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:08:08 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:10:55 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:11:20 Krystof [~csr21@92.24.94.2] has joined #lisp 20:12:07 -!- brandonz [~brandon@pool-74-97-30-61.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:20:20 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.67.91] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:45 lnostdal [~quassel@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:47 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:24:39 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.67.91] has joined #lisp 20:27:18 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-64-82-131.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: BERB!] 20:27:59 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 20:30:04 benny [~user@i577A15B1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:30:43 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:52 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:33:16 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-64-82-131.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:46 -!- sepp2k [~sexy@p548CB340.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: sepp2k] 20:35:06 if DEFPACKAGE doesn't have any :EXPORTs, then are all symbols exported by default? [I have package (defpackage :A) (in-package :A) ... in one file, then (defpackage :B (:use :A)) (in-package :B) ... in another file, however, after loading the first file, I still get 'undefined symbol' messages when loading the second file, and those symbols are in :A] 20:35:35 Quadrescence: no, by default no symbols are exported 20:35:50 Well that clears everything up then! 20:36:01 Is it possible to export all symbols without explicitly listing them? 20:36:14 no 20:36:30 Yes, but not with DEFPACKAGE. 20:37:11 nyef: What is the alternative? 20:37:21 clhs EXPORT 20:37:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_export.htm 20:37:26 clhs DO-SYMBOLS 20:37:26 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_do_sym.htm 20:37:35 Should be enough to get you started. 20:38:06 Oh, and, honestly, it's a bad idea. 20:38:24 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:38:50 nyef: I am just trying to rig the system to work, then clean up after. I definitely agree it's a bad idea. 20:39:52 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:40:08 Then again, over the last 11 packages or so that I've defined, only one has had as many as 17 symbols exported... and that interface turned out in retrospect to be broken and I now know how to redesign it to use fewer. 20:41:39 kclifton_ [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:22 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-23-82-248-79-201.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:44:49 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:49 -!- kclifton_ is now known as kclifton 20:45:01 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-250-94.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 20:45:47 rickmode [~rickmode@64.134.233.155] has joined #lisp 20:53:49 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-60-82-254-222-252.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:40 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255273.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:55:13 Quadrescence: What's your actual scenario here, BTW? Some massive refactoring? 20:55:38 nyef: Yes. Old CLtL1 code. :( 20:56:20 Ah. 20:56:34 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:57:05 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:58:31 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:55 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:04:27 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-6.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 21:05:16 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:06 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:36 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:08:13 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.0.194.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:09:31 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-209-181.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:10:37 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-169-252.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:44 Wombatzus [~user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:32 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-206-196.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:11:55 katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has joined #lisp 21:12:55 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:14:33 brandonz [~brandon@static-155-212-177-51.ri.onecommunications.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:43 -!- frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:16:33 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-6.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:17:31 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 21:18:49 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 21:19:38 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.43.172.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:19:47 nyef: i dare you to open up bash and run this: echo "`sbcl --noinform --noprint --eval "(progn (print (let ((l)) (do-all-symbols (i l) (when (eq (find-package 'cl) (symbol-package i)) (push i l))) (sort l 'string-lessp))) (quit))"`" 21:20:08 -!- katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:20:26 -!- brandonz [~brandon@static-155-212-177-51.ri.onecommunications.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:20:48 klacko [~uzo@dslb-094-220-128-225.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:57 -!- klacko [~uzo@dslb-094-220-128-225.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:22:36 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@64.134.233.155] has left #lisp 21:23:52 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 21:24:04 ... Should be, what, 900-odd symbols? 21:24:11 lnostdal [~quassel@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:20 978 symbols. 21:25:07 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:30 that doesn't seem that unerasonably large a sort 21:26:05 What does seem a bit weird is involving echo. 21:26:27 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:32 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:26:39 nyef: actually I didn't mean to 21:26:54 originally I did echo -n `sbcl...` which removed newlines but globbed it 21:27:14 but then I just decided that the extra obscurity of echo doing nothing wouldn't hurt 21:27:45 Note that you may end up with different results on other lisp implementations. 21:28:04 yeah 21:28:05 SBCL goes to some trouble to make sure all of the CL symbols are homed to the CL package and that only those symbols are homed there. 21:28:24 Well, that's a good thing, no? 21:28:43 Yeah, if you're using SBCL. 21:29:15 It might suck if you were using one of the other implementations and expected SBCL-like behavior for the CL package. 21:29:25 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:30:04 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-6.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 21:31:40 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-83-184.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:33:26 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-60-82-254-222-252.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:33:40 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-38-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:34:03 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:34:26 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2D70.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:49 valvola [~val@151.67.94.90] has joined #lisp 21:35:11 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:23 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-6.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:37:25 -!- kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: kjbrock] 21:38:10 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:42 Why doesn't SLIME have an equivalent of slime-space for newline? Something like slime-newline-and-indent would be useful which newlines and indents and does what slime-space does 21:41:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-96.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:41:06 Because emacs already does that? 21:41:40 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 21:41:42 There is already newline-and-indent in emacs yes, but the documentation in the minibuffer doesn't update then like it does with slime-space 21:42:32 katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has joined #lisp 21:42:37 Ah, well, can't you just throw that in a lambda in your .emacs? 21:42:40 Jabberwockey [~jens@hmbg-5f77dc64.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:39 Yeah, I was going to, but I also need to do what slime-space does but without inserting a space, I don' tknow which function does that 21:44:27 Oh I just realised this is #lisp not #emacs.. hopefully all SLIME users are here as well 21:45:04 Mostly, I was but have been relegated to winders and use LispWorks now. 21:45:33 Oh dear.. I'm sorry 21:45:43 emacs works on windoze though 21:45:47 Borbus: i bet slime-space knows how it does that.. and slime.el is a good place to look for that :) 21:46:00 francogrex [~user@109.130.146.145] has joined #lisp 21:46:07 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:46:28 Well, I like LispWorks and I'm working towards that point where as long as I'm in lisp, the OS will be irrelevant. There is no OS. :-) 21:47:01 Ah you can pass an argument to slime-space, so (slime-space 0) works, seems a bit hacky but meh 21:47:16 *drewc* notes that it's slime-echo-arglist that slime uses to echo the arglist 21:47:18 There is no OS, but there is emacs 21:49:05 -!- valvola [~val@151.67.94.90] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 21:49:27 Yes, emacs is nice. But, there is something I've grown to appreciate about developing common lisp in a common lisp IDE. There are no mental shifts between code and editor hacking. 21:50:33 Hemlock is a CL ide 21:50:33 drewc: hmm.. I don't have that function 21:51:03 and it's open source in its entirety, unlike some comercial CL ides 21:51:19 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:52:44 Yes, but when I've messed with Hemlock, it needed some updating that I didn't have time for. Anyway, I'm on winders and LispWorks for a number of reasons. I spent a fair amount of time researching ways to satisfy those requirements with open source tools and decided that I didn't have the time to do it. I'd like to get back to open source tools in the future, but have more pressing matters at the moment. 21:52:48 Borbus: sure you looked it up as an elisp function and not a CL function? 21:52:56 BTW, I still use emacs as my chat client on winders. 21:53:07 Borbus: that's odd. What does M-x apropos slime-echo tell you? 21:53:36 Borbus: (and note that it's not interactive so won't show up in tab completion for M-x) 21:53:56 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Quit: class] 21:53:59 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 21:54:40 Alright, folks. It's been real, but I got to git and feed my kids. Laters. 21:54:43 -!- tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 21:54:53 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 21:55:28 wow, git even does that now? 21:55:39 you didn't get the memo? 21:55:42 it's omnipotent now 21:55:55 though you do need a special button to get it to launch nukes 21:56:31 drewc: ah, silly me, it's not an interactive function 21:56:41 :P 21:56:42 does anyone use (have used) lisp cgi (or just lisp scripts) with SBCL or ECL? 21:56:51 *sytse* made that mistake at first too 21:57:53 francogrex: i've done cgi like things, but with executables, not scripts. startup and compilation time is killer with SBCL for anything but the most basic of scripts 21:58:09 francogrex: It's a lot more popular to use a full-on lisp webserver behind a proxy. Fastcgi may be an option, too, but normal cgi would get hammered with image startup costs. 21:58:17 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5B287AED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:58:21 Demosthenes [~demo@12.0.194.4] has joined #lisp 21:59:15 nyef: drewc : ok, not my interest to actually use them for developement, just see an example of how it may work 21:59:56 ok 21:59:59 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-8-181.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:06 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:23 *sytse* would use fastcgi, with an executable.. never did it though, as of yet (I'm completely new to lisp) 22:01:36 (executable as in, special sbcl binary with the webapp compiled in) 22:01:52 why would you bother with fastcgi? 22:02:07 why would I bother with a proxy.. ;-) 22:02:12 drewc: Because the webserver can restart the lisp process as required? 22:02:44 and because you get the full featureset of your http server 22:03:21 (things like compression and such, and access rights in the same configuration file as the rest of your web site) 22:03:24 Because mod_proxy doesn't allow for the same? 22:03:36 ola [~weechat@unaffiliated/ola] has joined #lisp 22:03:36 dunno 22:04:06 nyef: i use runit for that sort of thing 22:04:15 (restarting the process if it dies) 22:04:47 then i use nginx in front of that (or mod_proxy, but nginx makes a better proxy imo) 22:05:13 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:05:20 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 22:05:56 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:06:03 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:06:56 timor [~timor@port-92-195-169-252.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:07:14 drewc: nyef any perosnal or online docs to share? 22:07:38 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:07:40 personal like a locally written document about use 22:08:49 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-42-37.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:08:53 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-42-37.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:09:10 brandonz [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-225.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:33 a proxy does have the advantage that you can run your lisp program on another host.. or multiple 22:09:43 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 22:09:54 Can't help you there, I'm not even at the point of using Lisp to generate my static site. 22:12:48 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:14:25 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:16:38 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:20:32 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:21:00 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined 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[~vukung@catv-89-133-25-46.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 23:29:02 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@catv-89-133-25-46.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 23:29:22 sunwukong [~vukung@catv-89-133-25-46.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 23:31:03 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:31:14 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:31:36 MrPat [~chatzilla@dhcp-pa-173-233-18-248.consolidated.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:07 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757fef.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:38:08 Hi I have a generic question. I am trying to install a foreign library in SBCL on Windows. What is the path where the system's library loader looks? (for $500 Alex) 23:38:34 $PATH, maybe? 23:38:49 Alternately, look on MSDN? 23:38:52 Could it be that simple? 23:39:10 This is windows, so yes. It's certainly not going to be LD_LIBRARY_PATH. 23:40:20 So I pick a directory , add it to the path and it finds it. Way too obvious but I'll try. Thanks 23:40:39 araujo [~araujo@190.199.102.96] has joined #lisp 23:40:39 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.199.102.96] has quit [Changing host] 23:40:39 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 23:40:55 Alternately, use an explicit path, or try putting the DLL in the same directory as SBCL.exe? 23:41:15 (The latter may be more appropriate if you're trying to dump an executable core.) 23:43:16 OK That is more what I want. 23:44:36 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@catv-89-133-25-46.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: bye] 23:45:07 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:47:13 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:50:17 -!- Tosh[Drd] [~Sweater@87.246.131.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:32 sunwukong [~vukung@catv-89-133-25-46.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 23:55:28 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@catv-89-133-25-46.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 23:55:48 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-64-82-131.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]