00:00:41 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:18 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:08:36 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-139-221.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 00:10:42 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-139-221.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:13:14 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.60.128] has quit [Quit: a socializar se ha dicho] 00:15:58 yangsx [~yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 00:16:53 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:22:01 troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:31 -!- troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:56 drewc` [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:38 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:28:26 troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:48 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.58.91.195] has joined #lisp 00:30:46 hi, what are the alternatives today for parallel CL? including shared/no shared memory computers 00:32:37 -!- petafile [~ben@S010600146c99d4d3.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: petafile] 00:33:08 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:59 tcleval: the usual stuff (threads, workers and message queues), and some mpi bindings. 00:34:21 one dude managed to get sbcl and mpi working on a BlueGene/P, fwiw. 00:34:25 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@34.81-167-250.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:20 -!- powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-19-181.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 00:39:31 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:44:21 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 00:46:10 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:12 rbarraud [~rbarraud@202-180-88-252.callplus.net.nz] has joined #lisp 00:46:18 -!- drewc` is now known as drec 00:46:23 -!- drec is now known as drewc 00:46:34 -!- troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:54:14 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-223-211.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 00:56:15 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:56:24 execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has joined #lisp 00:58:13 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.59.223] has joined #lisp 00:59:31 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634293.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:04:10 askatasuna [~askatasun@77-10-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 01:04:16 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:04:53 Yuuhi` [benni@p54839B40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:48 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:50 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A5E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:06:41 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-214-239.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:08:44 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-134-127.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 01:13:31 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:16:40 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 01:18:07 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:26 And thanks again. 01:18:36 Whoops. 01:18:41 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:18:51 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 01:19:18 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:36 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-139-221.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 01:20:01 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 01:20:29 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:15 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 01:21:18 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-139-221.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:23 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:21:24 -!- Phrixos [~clarkema@gnu/webmaster/phrixos] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:21:40 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:25 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 01:22:53 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:34 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 01:24:01 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25:30 pkhuong: does anyone you know work with LINDA? 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02:37:16 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 02:41:47 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-137-145.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 02:43:49 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-212-181.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:45:38 tcleval: LFE (Lisp Flavored Erlang) 02:52:11 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Quit: Kerrick] 02:55:22 andrew007 [~andrew_zu@219.136.224.44] has joined #lisp 02:55:39 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:58:36 rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:58:37 -!- rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 02:58:37 rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 03:01:07 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:01:07 -!- rich_holygoat_ is now known as rich_holygoat 03:03:06 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:23 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 03:16:02 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:23:29 -!- CrazyEddy [~ovariotub@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:24:13 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:26:14 kwbeam [~gandalf@ip98-168-252-218.om.om.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:25 -!- kwbeam [~gandalf@ip98-168-252-218.om.om.cox.net] has quit [Quit: kwbeam] 03:33:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:35:53 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Quit: Kerrick] 03:38:17 guther [~guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has joined #lisp 03:39:45 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-63-83-105.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 03:42:00 -!- koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:42:21 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-76-118-76-200.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:34 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:02 -!- guther [~guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:44:06 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@77-10-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 03:47:44 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:14 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.208.114] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 04:05:41 Apparantly someone thinks that the empty sequence is not a sequence. 04:05:45 lops 04:12:26 Good morning everyone! 04:12:38 Zhivago: Now who would think something like that? 04:13:26 was that meant for #sbcl ? 04:13:44 CrazyEddy [~ovariotub@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 04:15:20 Clojure people. 04:15:36 I joined #clojure, and I've been accidently typing #lisp instead. :) 04:16:43 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 04:17:04 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-221-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:49 -!- doxtor [~doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:24:11 If it has an else-form, then you don't need to negate it. 04:34:58 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ydxsxrwfquaxzzyd] has joined #lisp 04:35:46 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@pool2-90.teleclipse.net] has quit [Quit: /wave] 04:36:33 Zhivago: wrong window again? 04:38:22 guther [~guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has joined #lisp 04:39:33 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:42:29 -!- guther [~guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:43:19 -!- brandonz [~brandon@pool-74-97-30-61.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:43:29 -!- andrew007 [~andrew_zu@219.136.224.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:44:50 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 04:47:27 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 04:49:53 -!- puddingpimp [~dave@118-93-168-180.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:50:35 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:50:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.180.207] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:51:19 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:09 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 04:55:48 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:57:38 katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has joined #lisp 05:00:20 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:01:20 andrew007 [~andrew_zu@219.136.201.58] has joined #lisp 05:10:12 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 05:15:50 puddingpimp [~dave@118-93-168-180.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:27:41 -!- andrew007 [~andrew_zu@219.136.201.58] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:28:05 andrew007 [~andrew_zu@219.136.224.44] has joined #lisp 05:32:15 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 05:33:11 -!- execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:33:58 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 05:34:55 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 05:35:49 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:50 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:38:52 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 05:38:59 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:40:39 guther [guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has joined #lisp 05:42:34 -!- serichse` is now known as serichsen 05:44:50 -!- guther [guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:45:51 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-40-82-251-185-169.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:46:01 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: HULK ANGRY! HULK DISCONNECT!] 05:46:37 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 05:48:00 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:48:35 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:54:16 MarcusTullius [~user@216-228.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 05:55:26 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 05:57:18 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:59:04 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:59:52 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:52 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:00:09 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-25-82-254-172-87.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:13 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 06:04:51 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:07:56 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:08:37 -!- atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:54 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:13:35 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:31 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 06:16:39 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 06:19:42 ejh [~ejh@ip208-103-38-36.dyn.mintel.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:32 -!- ejh [~ejh@ip208-103-38-36.dyn.mintel.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:22:36 -!- atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:24:49 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:24:55 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:24:56 xan_ [~xan@210.123.81.22] has joined #lisp 06:25:15 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:16 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:27:29 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99.100.67.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:31:51 -!- spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:32:18 -!- sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:32:33 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:50 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:05 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 06:33:19 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:36:02 good morning 06:42:38 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:43:30 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:43 -!- andrew007 [~andrew_zu@219.136.224.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:46:44 hello mvilleneuve 06:52:19 beach: one more time, an impressive number of SICL commit messages! 06:52:33 mvilleneuve: Thanks! 06:53:39 mvilleneuve: My course hasn't started yet, and I am not longer the director of the department, so I have plenty of time at the moment. I spend two days a week studying Vietnamese at the moment as well. 06:54:57 beach: great! How long is this going to last? 06:55:20 mvilleneuve: Another week, but my course load is light this year, so it may last all semester. 06:56:18 andrew007 [~andrew_zu@219.136.201.58] has joined #lisp 06:56:48 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 06:57:48 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:58:14 -!- andrew007 [~andrew_zu@219.136.201.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58:17 *beach* returns to working on the SICL sequence module. 07:01:11 -!- BladeRunners [~bladerunn@24-107-123-168.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:01:31 BladeRunner [~bladerunn@24-107-123-168.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:04:12 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:05:10 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:05:43 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:07:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:08:15 smik [~siddhant3@180.215.62.25] has joined #lisp 07:08:34 When I am running M-x slime The buffer window reads inferior mode. Why? 07:12:08 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: erlangueando] 07:13:53 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-19-211.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:15:15 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 07:15:49 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:16:45 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-78-162.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:19:17 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-137-145.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:23 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@221.245.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:21:11 beaumonta [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:22:07 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:23:11 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:25:43 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-30-249.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:27:11 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-3-224.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:30:43 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont_ 07:31:55 -!- JimmyRcom [~jimmy@adsl-76-201-179-216.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:32:03 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:33:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:35:51 smik: slime doesn't load the enhanced REPL by default. you need to use (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) in your .emacs 07:37:28 antifuchs: Thanks 07:39:12 guther [guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has joined #lisp 07:41:47 -!- smik [~siddhant3@180.215.62.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:46:21 ogamita [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:13 TeMPOraL [~user@erlang.pnet.com.pl] has joined #lisp 07:48:31 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:50:07 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:52:19 -!- puddingpimp [~dave@118-93-168-180.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit 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joined #lisp 09:28:33 Is rename-file key arguments new in clisp 2.49? (I'm on 2.48) 09:30:01 scratch that. I'm reading the NEWS. It is :) 09:30:18 -!- guther [guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:54 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-41-199.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 09:32:19 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-66-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:44:18 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-51-108.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:47:34 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:48:25 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-82-174.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:49:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@92-200.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:58:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:59:18 hans`` [~user@p579FBCE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:50 Yuuhi [benni@p54839B40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:38 -!- hans` [~user@p579FA832.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:23 Joreji 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[80f40909@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.244.9.9] has joined #lisp 12:02:39 vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:17 -!- maharba [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:50 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:06 slash_1 [~unknown@p4FF0A843.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:14 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:10:20 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@bpcmat07.mat.ucm.es] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:10:24 -!- gko [~gko@111.83.64.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:12:05 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 12:13:08 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:58 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.160.125] has joined #lisp 12:22:12 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-234-177.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:24:10 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:18 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-gwrvtomzfqcbczsr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:29:31 Phrixos [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:31:00 -!- execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:31:35 Question about CL:REPLACE with respect to cache performance and prefetch behavior. If the two subsequences are in the same object and overlap, and if the target subsequence is at a higher position than the source subsequence, then it is safe to copy element from the end to the beginning, but how penalizing is this? 12:33:13 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.195] has joined #lisp 12:33:38 If there is a significant distance between the two subsequences, one could copy chunks of the size corresponding to that distance from lower to higher addresses, thus taking advantage of prefetch, but is it worth it? 12:34:42 If the distance is not significant, one could allocate a small-ish intermediate sequence, and use it as a buffer, again copying from lower to higher addresses, but this time one would have to copy twice. Is it worth it? 12:35:36 I suppose I could implement both methods and see if there is a noticeable difference. 12:35:38 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kvtwcxpospkpyecx] has joined #lisp 12:36:42 beach: you're having problems with the performance of CL:REPLACE or just tinkering? 12:36:56 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:37:02 jdz: The latter. I haven't implemented it yet (for SICL). 12:39:39 don't know if it is relevant, but i remember the x86 instructions for memory copying used a value of a flag to choose the direction, and i'd guess it would not matter which way to go 12:39:51 but then again, it was so long ago that that information might not matter any more 12:40:16 jdz: Hmm, OK. But this is the portable implementation in pure CL, so I can't take advantage of that. 12:40:35 beach: are you copying element-by-element? 12:40:50 jdz: Do I have a choice? 12:41:27 beach: oh, right, can't use CL:REPLACE 12:41:45 Nope, since that's the one I am implementing. 12:43:30 i'm sure somebody more knowledgeable here could chime in, but i guess going in the increasing address direction would make some prefetching work better 12:43:53 but that guess is pure guesswork 12:44:08 jdz: That's my hunch as well, but will it be noticeable. I doubt it. 12:47:13 brandonz [~brandon@pool-74-97-30-61.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:55 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:51:49 mega1 [~quassel@pool-05044.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:53:19 smik [~siddhant3@180.215.5.52] has joined #lisp 12:53:27 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:38 If there is something tougher than learning Lisp, it must be teaching Lisp 12:54:39 smik: What makes you say that? 12:55:20 beach: I was just being poetic ;) Anyway, took a small introductary class on Lisp today. 12:55:31 smik: Congratulations! 12:55:40 I mean I delivered a talk on Lisp 12:55:54 smik: I was asking seriously because that's what I do: teach Lisp. 12:56:15 smik: Learning to juggle is much harder than learning lisp. 12:56:19 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:56:35 smik: Just remember that lisp is fundamentally simple. 12:56:39 beach: Oh, well it was the first time for me to teach Lisp, that too the C centeric programmers 12:56:53 Zhivago: Yes, that's the beauty of it 12:57:06 smik: C and lisp have quite a few things in common. 12:57:13 jdz: My experiments give very inconclusive results, probably because there is so much overhead that dwarfs the possible differences due to prefetch, etc. 12:57:19 The main difference is that C is about doubly linked lists. 12:57:41 *beach* vanishes for a while. 12:58:00 Zhivago: Hmm, I spent a lot of time in explaining a) the prefix notation b) Lisp evaluation rules and c) cons cells 12:58:03 beach: prefetch works both ways on intel and amd (has for a couple years). 12:58:36 beach: yeah, i guess worrying about the cache behaviour matters when a significant part of what you're doing fits in the cache (in the first place) 12:58:40 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:01 I'd have put that down as "(a) just use function calls, and (b) write (foo a b) instead of foo(a, b)" 12:59:04 caches are big these days :) 12:59:24 jdz: actually, prefetch is particularly useful when it *doesn't* fit in cache. 12:59:32 Before I'd explain cons cells to C programmers I'd explain C pointers as pointing into doubly linked lists. 12:59:50 If they can grasp that, then the rest should be simple. 12:59:50 pkhuong: that i agree with 13:00:03 e.g., "hello" is a doubly linked list. 13:00:34 pkhuong: all that's left is to find out if we can benefit from the prefetch (and, as original question stated, whether going in one direction or the other matters) 13:00:34 Zhivago: Well the class went pretty fine actually, I asked questions at the end of it, and seems like about 70% of students were responsive. 13:00:41 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:01:46 gnooth [~chatzilla@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:06 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 13:03:18 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:03:45 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:03:59 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 13:04:00 museun [~what@h-66-167-51-169.atlngahp.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:46 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:07:33 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:18 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ydxsxrwfquaxzzyd] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:10:46 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 13:12:38 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:13:14 -!- xan_ [~xan@121.141.77.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:13:25 -!- serichsen [~user@f048107002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 13:14:12 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 13:18:39 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 13:19:25 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@p4FF0A843.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:22:49 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-233-194-239.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 13:23:33 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:24:47 'morning 13:25:55 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-163-102.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:27:02 -!- yacin_ [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:27:29 xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has joined #lisp 13:32:07 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:32:55 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:26 -!- brandonz [~brandon@pool-74-97-30-61.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:36:58 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:39:32 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:42 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:43:05 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-233-194-239.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:28 yacin [~yacin@lawn-143-215-125-35.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 13:44:38 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 13:45:09 Bronsa [~bronsa@host165-177-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:47:41 -!- smik [~siddhant3@180.215.5.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:49:18 smik [~siddhant3@180.215.16.14] has joined #lisp 13:52:20 Xach: are your planet.lisp scripts available? 13:53:44 froydnj: sort of 13:54:10 http://xach.com/lisp/newscluster.tgz has a snapshot from a while ago. it has changed a bit since then. 13:55:39 Xach: hm, ok. thanks! 13:55:55 anything in particular in mind? 13:56:05 it's half-designed hackware, for what it's worth :) 13:56:31 Xach: I was using venus for a self-hosted RSS planet solution, but it has mysteriously started hanging in the past week or so 13:56:51 Xach: and venus is an uncommented garbage dump of code 13:57:00 sounds a lot like newscluster! 13:57:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:57:06 heh 13:57:21 *Xach* would do things differently in 2010 13:57:40 when i wrote newscluster, people still made wacky feeds with half-baked software all the time. 13:57:50 i haven't had to ask someone to fix their blog feed for a long, long time 13:57:55 so I thought I might try finder something a little simpler and less purist (e.g. venus is infatuated with html5) 13:58:00 ah 13:59:00 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:00:34 Xach: thanks for the code. what sort of things have changed? 14:00:46 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kvtwcxpospkpyecx] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:02:34 jdz: as I wrote, (automatic) prefetch works in both directions nowadays. 14:03:24 there's a python one which works impressively well 14:04:22 python what? 14:04:26 brown [~user@nat/google/x-bhuwxigegefrnyda] has joined #lisp 14:04:34 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:04:36 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:37 -!- brown is now known as reb 14:04:50 hdurer_ [~hdurer@lo4.cfw-a-gci.london.yahoo.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:50 -!- hdurer_ [~hdurer@lo4.cfw-a-gci.london.yahoo.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:06:51 hdurer_ [~hdurer@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has joined #lisp 14:07:25 pkhuong: good to know 14:08:22 -!- smik [~siddhant3@180.215.16.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:09:04 lnostdal_ [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:06 -!- lnostdal_ [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:15 froydnj: not sure, sorry. it's been a while since i tweaked anything. 14:09:38 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:10:15 froydnj: sorry; python feed parser 14:10:59 rsynnott: that's what i use for planet lisp. 14:11:05 pkhuong: Thanks! I didn't know that! 14:11:10 rsynnott: i have a small python program that spits out directories full of sexps. 14:11:20 newscluster massages them into planet lisp 14:11:30 EngiNerd [~quassel@robert-england-2.um.maine.edu] has joined #lisp 14:11:38 ah, yep, universal feed parser is the lib 14:11:53 IME, worked for nearly everything 14:11:56 Okay, so I'm trying to use format to print a list like this: 14:11:56 EngiNerd, memo from pjb: lambda expressions are function names (for anonymous functions). Therefore all the functions already exist: you only have to find out their name! The function for (list (car arg)) is named (lambda (arg) (list (car arg))); it is (function (lambda (arg) (list (car arg)))), or the result of evaluating (lambda (arg) (list (car arg))). 14:11:56 EngiNerd, memo from pjb: "Well, the problem is asking to take a list with embedded lists and tighten it into a single straight list". I'd guess you mean "flatten" it into a simple list. Using the right terminology (or at least the conventionnal terminology) will help when googling. 14:12:07 ...what the hell? o.o 14:12:33 *EngiNerd* shakes off the surprise 14:12:33 EngiNerd: the evil robot has messages for you 14:12:36 Anyways... 14:12:43 Trying to format a list to do this: 14:12:47 First element: a 14:12:50 Second element: b 14:12:55 Third element: c 14:12:58 et cetera 14:13:12 but... I'm coming up blank on a couple things 14:14:14 When I use the format iterator ~{ ... ~}, is there a way to access the iteration index? 14:14:18 -!- museun [~what@h-66-167-51-169.atlngahp.dynamic.covad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:22 No. 14:14:28 EngiNerd: sometimes you have to write a loop. 14:14:41 Okay, so there's no way of doing this with the built-in iterator? 14:14:57 almost always a better option than dealing with the scary format iteration stuff, imo :) 14:15:47 Okay :P 14:16:07 In that case, I think the only other question is, how do I capitalize the ordinals? 14:16:09 beach: optimization guides usually have a section dedicated to memcpy/memmove. 14:16:11 EngiNerd: use ~:{ and pass (map-iota #'list :start 1) 14:16:19 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 14:16:29 o.o;; 14:16:33 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A843.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:36 ~@(~:R~) 14:16:57 Xach: what exactly does that do? o.o 14:16:58 -!- hdurer_ [~hdurer@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:17:26 (format nil "~@(~:R~)" 3) => "Third" 14:17:34 Okay 14:17:53 So ~@(...~) is for capitalization? 14:18:23 clhs ~( 14:18:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cha.htm 14:18:27 see that link for details 14:18:28 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:18:53 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rwnuhrxvkwpovccb] has joined #lisp 14:19:43 Okay 14:20:01 smik [~siddhant3@180.215.26.239] has joined #lisp 14:20:03 Oh, hello, neighbor. 14:20:20 *Xach* waves up the interstate 14:21:15 pkhuong: For different processors you mean? 14:21:19 Oh wow hi 14:21:23 :P 14:22:13 beach: right, but you can try to extract the common patterns. Most of the tricks are asm-level anyway. 14:22:44 pkhuong: Sure. 14:22:45 rrice [~rrice@oh-67-76-18-254.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:58 ...derp ... what if I just want to print out an element of a list, no matter what type? 14:23:13 Do I have to convert it into a string first? 14:23:18 EngiNerd: you can use ~A 14:23:22 Okay 14:23:25 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:24:24 metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has joined #lisp 14:25:49 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-180-170.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:26:50 *Xach* went to the university of maine just as it was starting to use C++ as an introductory language 14:27:58 Oh, wow! That sounds like such a bad idea. 14:28:18 [using C++ as an introductory language; not going to the university of Maine] 14:28:23 *EngiNerd* is going to UMaine now, was indoctrinated in C/C++/Java, but is enjoying this :P 14:28:28 Don't worry, I wasn't permanently damaged! 14:29:39 museun [~what@h-68-164-215-137.atlngahp.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:41 Hehe 14:29:48 ...aw dang, why isn't this working >.< 14:30:02 -!- CrazyEddy [~ovariotub@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:30:23 ...and Emacs isn't letting me to select the code to paste it, wonderful 14:32:01 format nil prints to the screen, right? 14:32:10 returns a string 14:32:20 format t to output on stdout. 14:32:26 Okay 14:32:58 beach: we moved from modula-3 to java :) 14:33:48 Hmmm ... hopefully my last question 14:34:04 ...nah, never mind 14:34:11 Thanks for the help, be back later :P 14:34:18 -!- EngiNerd [~quassel@robert-england-2.um.maine.edu] has quit [Quit: For the record: :3] 14:35:04 davazp [~user@184.Red-79-154-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:29 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-220-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:35:30 mega1_ [~quassel@pool-04297.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:35:32 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva] 14:36:04 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:52 -!- mega1 [~quassel@pool-05044.externet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:37:42 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:37:49 -!- yacin [~yacin@lawn-143-215-125-35.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:37:56 yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 14:38:08 Xach: what would you do differently in newscluster in 2010? 14:38:55 -!- museun [~what@h-68-164-215-137.atlngahp.dynamic.covad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:55 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:23 froydnj: i would plan for archives up front instead of bolting them on. i would be smarter about not moving files around. i would track "active" items per feed more intelligently. i would scan fewer things to do the job. 14:40:59 -!- nasloc__ [tim@163.16.211.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:15 timchen1` [tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 14:41:24 *rtoym* fails to update cmucl to Unicode 5.2.0. Normalization for codepoint u+11099 is totally confusing. 14:41:53 -!- weirdo [sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:23 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:43:45 froydnj: smarter about unicode, etc 14:44:19 Xach: wow, that's a lot of stuff :) 14:44:19 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rwnuhrxvkwpovccb] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:44:21 CrazyEddy [~ovariotub@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 14:44:23 lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:36 it works fine enough now so I don't think I'll bother. 14:45:19 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:45:50 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:45:53 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:27 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:46:57 weirdo [sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:19 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:47:48 but, y'know, 7 years older and wiser... 14:47:56 Happy belated birthday, Planet Lisp! 14:47:58 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:48:04 :) 14:48:10 I see bloglines is set to shut down. 14:48:54 -!- timchen1` [tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:48:55 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.115.160.125] has joined #lisp 14:49:26 indeed; all RSS reading now to be done through Google Reader or its client apps 14:49:27 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.115.160.125] has quit [Client Quit] 14:49:51 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.80.43] has joined #lisp 14:50:44 lnostdal_ [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:47 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:26 -!- gnooth [~chatzilla@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.7/20100713130626]] 14:52:31 relcomp [~chatzilla@195.37.186.62] has joined #lisp 14:53:09 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@195.37.186.62] has left #lisp 14:55:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:57:37 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:40 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:02:38 -!- lusory [~bart@bb121-6-159-78.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:03:08 brandonz [~brandon@pool-74-97-30-61.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:44 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-218-74.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:04:50 -!- lnostdal_ [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:05:55 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:23 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:06:40 ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 15:07:23 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 15:08:48 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@34.81-167-250.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:11:09 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:11:32 carlocci [~nes@93.37.204.81] has joined #lisp 15:18:33 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 15:18:41 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:19:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:19 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 15:22:51 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 15:24:02 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:24:27 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 15:25:21 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:25:31 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC23386.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:25:53 -!- e-future_ [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:28:03 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 15:28:04 powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-19-181.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:23 lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:35 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-243-101.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:29:27 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:31:56 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.160.125] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:32 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.160.125] has joined #lisp 15:32:34 lnostdal_ [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:16 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:35:07 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:36:49 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:36:49 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 15:37:20 -!- lnostdal_ [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:38:05 OliverUv [~gandhi@34.81-167-250.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:12 -!- TomJ [~tomj@89.241.155.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:35 lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:52:20 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:52:33 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host165-177-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:52:45 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:54:13 Bronsa [~bronsa@host165-177-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:57:45 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:03 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:01:35 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-134-127.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:05 manuel__ [~manuel_@p54B8CA2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:09 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:26 hi, i'm using cl-gd, which gets raw-pixels out of a file using cffi DEREF-ARRAY with type (:ARRAY :INT), but I get unicode characters back? 16:03:48 (raw-pixel) -> #\Null or similar. anyone know why? (i'm using ccl64 on macosx) 16:04:53 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:05:08 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:07:27 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host165-177-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:08:52 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 16:09:27 *vng* has to go 16:09:33 -!- vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:14 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:10:33 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:11:04 manuel__: it doesn't use CFFI, normally... 16:11:15 srolls [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:11:27 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:11:40 DEREF-ARRAY, be it UFFI or CFFI, i don't really understand the dependencies :) 16:12:08 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:12:57 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 16:13:08 in MISC.LISP it does either DEREF-ARRAY '(:ARRAY (* :UNSIGNED-CHAR)) or DEREF-ARRAY '(:ARRAY (* :INT)) 16:13:26 lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:46 *Xach* can't get his cl-gd working :( 16:16:40 cl-gd doesn't use cffi directly IIANM. It uses UFFI or CFFI-UFFI-COMPAT. 16:16:56 If you're using CFFI-UFFI-COMPAT, try real uffi instead. 16:17:07 manuel__: I can see an unsigned-char returning a character. 16:17:12 I'm trying with real uffi, and I can't get it working. 16:17:25 *Xach* should probably try outside of quicklisp 16:18:19 Xach: nm, I didn't see your reply 16:18:45 lichtblau: ready for a zip patch? 16:19:07 I didn't see that either! 16:19:26 actually, it depends. Is it a nice patch? 16:19:44 heheh 16:20:14 it is a super nice patch, in my head 16:20:19 *Xach* must commit it to disk and email it 16:21:07 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:21:25 Let me guess, ASDF2 compatibility? 16:21:32 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:22:31 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has left #lisp 16:22:43 cp437 support? Unicode support? switch from inflate.cl to unsalza2? 16:22:51 asdf2 compatibility :( 16:23:13 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:35 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 16:24:09 -!- ogamita [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:24:27 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:58 -!- powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-19-181.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 16:30:40 mega1 [~quassel@pool-04d71.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:31:15 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:34 -!- mega1_ [~quassel@pool-04297.externet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:32:07 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 16:33:10 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:33:14 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:33:47 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:02 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:34:35 lnostdal [~quassel@124.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:17 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:38:35 abhinav [~abhinav@122.167.172.64] has joined #lisp 16:38:44 TomJ [~tomj@89.241.155.73] has joined #lisp 16:39:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:39:48 will check with UFFI 16:39:59 but could it return a char on unsigned-char? 16:40:35 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@124.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:40:50 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-121-100.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:43:07 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 16:43:15 manuel___ [~manuel_@p54B8BE2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:01 ... Returning an actual lisp character for an unsigned-char field in c is... superficially plausible. 16:44:08 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-117-13.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:46:31 Bronsa [~bronsa@host165-177-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:46:42 -!- manuel__ [~manuel_@p54B8CA2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:47:15 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 16:47:20 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 16:47:32 Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 16:47:44 -!- benny [~user@i577A12A6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:48:14 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:20 benny [~user@i577A39E2.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:48:29 I *win*! Significantly faster count function in SICL: http://paste.lisp.org/+2GCL 16:48:29 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:58 beach: Congratulations. 16:50:48 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:17 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:53:24 nyef: Thanks! Actually, I am surprised that it seems fairly easy in many cases to obtain something faster. I wonder what that means. Perhaps that the creators of the original code base were eager to get the thing working, and decided to worry about performance later. Then nobody cared or had time. 16:53:48 lnostdal [~quassel@124.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:54:29 Furthermore, I don't even compile my code with high optimization, in fact it is compiled with (debug 3) and (speed 0). 16:55:13 Wouldn't surprise me. A lot of the time, my focus would be on getting everything working, not on making things fast. And then you get 80/20 effects on what to actually make fast. 16:55:52 So I guess it was just time for someone to go through each function in the HyperSpec and think about how to make it as fast as possible. 16:56:11 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host165-177-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:56:23 ilowhy [~ilowhy@122.169.225.122] has joined #lisp 16:56:31 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:51 -!- ilowhy [~ilowhy@122.169.225.122] has quit [Client Quit] 16:57:41 -!- davazp [~user@184.Red-79-154-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:15 lurker-x [~androirc@32.168.220.9] has joined #lisp 16:58:51 jmbr [~jmbr@221.245.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:59:23 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:59:34 You know, there are times when I'd rather have meaningful errors and helpful diagnostics than sheer blazing speed. 16:59:44 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:00 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@124.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:00:21 lnostdal [~quassel@124.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:01:33 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A843.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:01:56 nyef: I definitely agree, and that is the top-priority for SICL. I find myself struggling huge numbers of minor quirks in my current development environment that makes the entire programming experience as frustrating as in the pre-gdb days for C on Unix. 17:03:12 Suboptimal error reporting, essentially no debugger, strange stepper, weird SLIME reactions to time output, etc, etc, etc. 17:03:22 -!- TomJ [~tomj@89.241.155.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:23 I am just surprised that in addition, it seems possible to get significantly better speed in some cases, even with totally portable code and no particular optimization settings. 17:05:26 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@124.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:05:28 Sounds about par for the course. We have one of the greatest programming languages available, and our development environments tend towards the terrible. 17:07:06 lnostdal [~quassel@124.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:07 nyef: Still, people claim SLIME+SBCL beats Eclipse with a horse length. I don't know Eclipse, but it must be truly horrible if that is true. 17:07:36 nyef: well, the lisp machines' environment was much ahead compared to anything of its time, i believe 17:07:56 pmd: Yes, but it's also much ahead of what we have now. 17:08:08 At least, for lisp hacking. 17:08:39 pmd: What nyef said. We should be able to do *much* better with the computing resources at our disposal. 17:08:39 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 17:08:47 beach: that is true if you basically develop incrementally without restarting the image, but eclipse(+java) tends to be much better at static analysis of code 17:09:09 but that of course is because java's syntax is so ugly to support the static rules it represents... 17:09:34 true 17:09:41 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:09:50 pmd: I believe you. I was just citing what I often hear people say here. 17:10:30 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-121-100.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 17:11:04 pmd: In fact, sometimes I think that means that some of those people don't usually use the features of a good development environment, so they don't miss them. 17:11:38 beach: People learn not to want what their environment doesn't provide. 17:11:48 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@124.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:15 Other people learn to build an environment that provides what they want. 17:12:17 Xach: That's what I have observed as well. It is just that I don't think like that. 17:13:08 *beach* is called upon to have dinner with his (admittedly small) family, and will be back later. 17:13:09 (in favor of Xach's argument) eg. there really isn't an apropos tool in eclispe, but its completion is context-sensitive 17:13:49 *eclipse 17:14:56 lnostdal [~quassel@124.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:22 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:16:02 as for me, stuff like C-c C-c / C-M-x in SLIME is very important... Unfortunately dynamic code update is mostly useless in languages like Python and hard/impossible in languages like Java. I use it often for js though... 17:16:50 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:17:24 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:04 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 17:19:11 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.167.172.64] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:51 lnostdal_ [~quassel@124.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:18 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@124.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:24:15 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:25:07 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 17:26:50 -!- mega1 [~quassel@pool-04d71.externet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:27:36 rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:43 -!- lnostdal_ [~quassel@124.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:35:12 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.181.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:36:50 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.176.151] has joined #lisp 17:39:59 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-137-119.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:09 lnostdal [~quassel@124.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:44:53 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:48:05 *beach* is back. 17:49:24 beach: I think there's sometimes no distinction drawn between a defensive "Sure, Lisp [or some aspect of its environment] doesn't have that, but you can still get a lot of of useful stuff done" and "You don't need that" or "Lisp's way is unquestionably better" 17:50:58 Xach: Sure, I agree, and it is sometimes hard to draw such a distinction because of context. Some people get defensive when attacked by ignorant newbies for instance. 17:51:18 and some get offensive :) 17:51:26 -!- krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:51:30 And then there's the "my environment is split over two different emacs configurations, one for editing and the other to manage the lisp interaction." 17:51:34 beach: is the size of your familly a definition of smallness? 17:52:02 pjb: Number of people is 2, which seems minimal in order to call it a family. 17:52:11 ;-) 17:52:34 nyef: What about it? 17:53:14 -!- MarcusTullius [~user@216-228.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:53:20 HG` [~HG@85.8.73.230] has joined #lisp 17:53:30 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 17:54:22 I still think we could do much better with a development environment based on something like CLIM. Unfortunately, we kind of blew it with McCLIM which has way too many bugs, and given the poor development environment, they are hard to find and fix (chicken-and-egg problem). So first we need a better Lisp system, then a better CLIM standard, then an implementation of that CLIM standard, and then a development environment based on it 17:54:23 The task is huge! 17:54:29 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@124.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:55:15 Right, so I decided to narrow the scope a bit for myself. 17:55:31 nyef: I fully understand. 17:55:34 I maintain SBCL, and I try to develop stuff with it. 17:55:42 pmd: What nyef said. We should be able to do *much* better with the computing resources at our disposal. 17:55:47 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:55:53 isn't a large problem the lack of human resources at our disposal? 17:56:04 Definitely! 17:56:08 That's it! We should start with an AI! 17:56:19 And I think we are wasting them. 17:56:30 s/them/the ones we have/ 17:57:03 a secondary point: if no-one needs a faster , what is the point of building one? 17:57:59 So, right now, I'm experimenting with literate programming in org-mode (which has several annoying problems), trying to make something resembling a completed application, and taking notes for what infrastructure would have helped make things easier for next time. 17:59:10 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 17:59:19 Example: it took me hours to track down a compilation error that said "the variable P is unbound" reported to be in the last function of my file. After looking for Ps all over in that function, I renamed all identifiers containing a P to something else, but still got the message, now hidden inside "undefined function listx" messages. Finally, I found it, it was a P that I accidentally inserted at the very beginning of the file, and 17:59:19 the only trace of it was a message "Compiling P", with no associated error message. 17:59:48 heehee 17:59:53 Ouch. 18:00:10 Krystof: Who said no-one needs a faster ? 18:00:14 nyef: I'm interested in how that goes, because I've thought about trying to do the same thing. I use org-mode for notes, but the programming part is still clumsy for me. 18:00:22 I already knew that the SBCL fasloading machinery needed a good going over, but no indication of current TLF being processed? 18:00:52 LiamH: It's... clumsy. At least partly because my org-mode emacs isn't set up for slime, and my slime emacs isn't set up for org-mode. 18:00:53 beach: that's where a binary search by splitting the file in piece would work better (a classic ML type-debugging trick, iirc ;) 18:01:16 But also because org-babel has some truly spectacular annoyances to it. 18:01:37 pkhuong: Or an environment that told me where the problem was. Or at least one that didn't tell me that it is in the last function whereas it isn't. 18:01:39 nyef: exactly, I'd like #+BEGIN_SRC lisp to actually feed into slime somehow. But I wasn't able to figure that out. 18:02:12 nyef: Are you using the latest org-babel? I think they just recently did a major overhaul. 18:02:13 Actually, AIUI, that's supposed to work with the version of org that I have. 18:02:25 I'm using whatever I could get with debian testing. 18:02:36 7.01g 18:02:43 yeah, that's new 18:03:28 I am so completely tired of dealing with custom packages, release-candidate linux kernels, et cetera. 18:04:03 I know I am sounding like one of the many people why complain in order to then feel they do the right thing to abandon Lisp for something like Python, but I am sure you all know this is not what I am aiming for. 18:05:04 beach: no-one said it, but it is one possible explanation for no-one having requested or built one before 18:06:06 LiamH: Hrm. Only hits on SLIME in my org-mode source directory are in ob-clojure.el. That said, I think dto might have something? 18:06:31 I don't believe that sbcl told you that the variable P was unbound in the last function of your file 18:06:36 Krystof: I think we all agreed that it is *way* more important to have good error messages and a good development environment, and that it is just nice if this could be had at the same time as something faster. 18:06:41 (I believe that that is how you interpreted its message) 18:06:50 Krystof: That is possible. 18:07:23 Krystof: Let me see whether I can re-create the message artificially. 18:07:32 it does that because of a tension between the error you came across and a different case, namely: the use of something defined later 18:07:40 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:42 (I can re-create the message myself) 18:07:58 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-63.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:08:10 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.45.253.35] has joined #lisp 18:08:14 the tension is between your case and the case where the system decides not to warn about things defined only later. To do that, it has to defer messages about undefined things until the end of the compilation unit 18:08:17 nyef: too bad, looks like there's more work to be done to get org-mode to where I imagine it should be. 18:08:31 -!- limetree [~user@c-0be9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:15 Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has joined #lisp 18:09:22 clhs with-compilation-unit 18:09:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_comp.htm 18:09:27 (for an example) 18:09:34 that makes sense for functions, not so much for variables 18:09:39 LiamH: Oh, yeah. My shortlist is things like concatenating multiple source blocks under the same name, exporting source block names to LaTeX and HTML, not bloody -expanding- noweb references when exporting to LaTeX (or anything else), et cetera. 18:09:39 yes 18:09:56 beach: the message is 18:09:58 ; file: /tmp/foo.lisp 18:09:58 ; in: 18:09:58 ; P 18:10:04 Krystof: does that apply to undefined functions and special variables later defined? 18:10:16 Krystof: True, it doesn't say that, but it also doesn't say where in the file it is. 18:10:27 and the documentation has (for about 20 years now) explained how to read the source path: that that P is a top-level form 18:10:48 I'm not saying it's unreasonable to misread it. Or to misunderstand it. 18:11:05 but I am saying it's not fair to say that it's 18:11:42 Krystof: OK I take it back. It didn't say it was in the last function. 18:12:41 jsnell: well, it makes a certain amount of sense for variables while we do the benign interpretation of unspecial unbound things as if they were special 18:13:01 it does make approximately no sense for a special variable reference as a top-level form, though 18:13:04 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:14:15 I really don't want to come across as complaining about SBCL, because I know what a great job the maintainers are doing. 18:15:34 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has left #lisp 18:15:36 beach: at complaining, or making it good? ;) 18:15:48 heh! 18:16:25 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 18:16:28 lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:54 I am hoping my remarks are just taken for what they are, namely that it is possible to do much better, though perhaps not given the limited human resources we have. 18:20:23 mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 18:22:14 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:22:35 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:40 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:24:43 -!- mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:26:08 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:46 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:26:46 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:26:46 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 18:28:57 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Client Quit] 18:29:47 -!- Phrixos [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:30:10 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-226.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 18:30:13 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-234-177.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:36 Phrixos [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:31:14 guther [~guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has joined #lisp 18:32:02 silenius [~silenus@p4FC23386.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:11 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-214-239.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:33:09 guther_ [guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has joined #lisp 18:33:12 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.176.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:34:47 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.145.38] has joined #lisp 18:38:36 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:38:58 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:39:05 Hello everyone! 18:39:24 I've got a problem using SBCL on a vserver (debian testing, x86) 18:39:50 flip214: what's the trouble? 18:40:18 Installation didn't fully work, because of the virtualization ("mmap: out of space" or whatever the message is) 18:41:01 I tried to use a shell script named "/usr/local/bin/sbcl" that calls /usr/bin/sbcl with --dynamic-space-size, but that always resulted in "package asdf not found" 18:41:21 Now I tried to run my own sources (that work fine on my local machine), but these also just say "asdf not found". 18:41:32 SBCL 1.0.40 includes asdf2, AFAIK. 18:41:36 SBCL_HOME not set? 18:41:53 Does anyone have an idea how I can get "/usr/lib/common-lisp/bin/sbcl.sh rebuild" to run? 18:42:06 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:42:27 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 18:42:35 flip214: What does rebuild mean? 18:42:49 oh, clc? 18:43:06 xach: not sure... there's "known commands: rebuild, remove, install-clc, and remove-clc" 18:43:19 rebuild is run during dpkg, so I tried to repair the damage 18:43:50 I've now changed the /usr/bin/sbcl line in the sbcl.sh script - but I only get the "asdf not found" error 18:43:51 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:51 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:43:51 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 18:44:07 sadly strace is worthless, because of the non-standard calling convention 18:44:34 flip214: damn, Common Lisp Controller again? 18:44:48 flip214: If you want to get something working quickly, I recommend ditching debian's sbcl and using a binary from www.sbcl.org. 18:44:49 maybe ... I don't know, just learning cl 18:47:50 flip214: did you try changing the /usr/bin/sbcl line in the rebuild clause? 18:47:59 to add a --dynamic-space-size arg? 18:48:14 foom: yes, I did 18:48:31 Now I'm trying to do that with a (require 'asdf) line above the LISP block 18:49:02 oh, I see. 18:49:11 you need to run install-clc I think 18:49:19 hey lisp meeting next year in hamburg 18:49:35 I'm not sure what rebuild is for, but it doesn't do what you want. :) 18:55:16 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B3274C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:22 foom: I don't get it to run anyway, I think ... 18:55:33 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A843.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:06 SE555 [~user@207.178.208.5] has joined #lisp 18:57:06 flip214: ?? 18:57:28 I've now put these on the sbcl command lines: 18:57:35 --dynamic-space-size 512 --eval "(require 'asdf)" 18:58:01 flip214: the problem is that your sbcl.core is broken, which is why you need to rerun install-clc. 18:58:34 yes, and I don't seem to be able to run install-clc ;-/ 18:58:55 -!- atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:04 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B3261F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:59:29 what does it say when you try? 19:00:02 antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-214-239.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:14 Hmmm .. I got my scripts running by explicitly loading doing (require 'sbcl) ... at least a bit, until uffi died. 19:00:58 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:32 Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has joined #lisp 19:01:54 mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has joined #lisp 19:02:27 Intensity [jgZLIf4TvZ@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 19:02:27 foom: at the moment I'm hanging at loading cl-sql-sqlite3: 19:02:39 ; $ cd /usr/share/common-lisp/source/clsql-uffi/uffi/; make 19:02:40 make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/share/common-lisp/source/clsql-uffi/uffi' 19:02:40 make[1]: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop. 19:02:40 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/share/common-lisp/source/clsql-uffi/uffi' 19:02:49 So I'd say that the uffi installation is broken. 19:03:04 Is someone a debian developer here? 19:03:13 it's entirely possible debian's uffi package is broken 19:03:18 I haven't tried using that 19:03:53 No, not because of uffi 19:03:58 I'm talking about http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-common-lisp-devel/2010-September/002336.html 19:04:02 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 19:04:05 someone looking for me? 19:04:10 Only one answer, and that off-topic? 19:04:33 dto: are you a debian developer? *and* a volunteer? Fine, please read the link that I just pasted. 19:04:36 dto: Did you have anything for org-mode talking to SLIME for CL? 19:04:39 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A843.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:04:55 nyef: i contributed what became ob-lisp.el 19:04:59 flip214: No, dto is responding to a mention from a previous conversation. 19:05:02 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0BEC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:09 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 19:05:10 flip214: not a debian developer. 19:05:12 dto: Ah... Which doesn't seem to be part of my org-mode install for some reason? 19:05:18 nyef: only in git 19:05:19 powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-19-181.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:24 dto: sorry, thanks nonetheless. 19:05:27 Fair enough. 19:05:33 no problem :) 19:05:40 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Client Quit] 19:05:40 When's the next actual release, do you know? 19:05:55 flip214: I'm still not sure what your current issue is. But I have a suggestion for you. 19:05:55 flip214: i looked at the link but I know very little about building sbcl 19:06:07 nyef: not sure. check on emacs-orgmode@gnu.org on gmane and search it 19:06:49 The *main* issue is that installing SBCL on virtual servers (not XEN or KVM) doesn't work, because there's no virtual memory size limit given in the installation scripts 19:06:51 flip214: run "dpkg-divert /usr/bin/sbcl", then make a shell program in /usr/bin/sbcl which runs /usr/bin/sbcl --dynamic-space-size 19:06:58 er, runs /usr/bin/sbcl.distrib, I meant to say 19:07:15 and actually, it'd be better for it to *not* be a shellscript, cause those can't be in #! lines. 19:07:19 but that might not actually matter 19:07:30 not for now 19:07:38 you can do that *before* installing any sbcl packages 19:07:45 so then all the install scripts might just work 19:07:52 -!- powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-19-181.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:08:20 I did the dpkg-divert line 19:08:26 but the binary is still called sbcl 19:08:32 it only affects install-time 19:08:33 Do I have to rename that manually? 19:08:37 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:08:38 unless you do --rename too 19:08:43 so yeah, just move it manually 19:08:46 never have I loved git sbcl more... O_o 19:09:18 -!- Phrixos [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:10:02 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.73.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:10:08 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-63.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:10:08 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:11:32 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: tltstc] 19:11:35 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:11 btw, anyone here got serious experience with multithreaded SCL on SPARC64? 19:12:18 -!- atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:12:21 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:33 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:13:47 I don't... but could I interest you in multithreaded SBCL on SPARC? 19:13:54 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:36 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:14:45 still hanging with cl-uffi .... but the same version on my local machine works 19:14:48 strange ... 19:15:04 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:18 nyef: stable enough? :) 19:15:24 and 64bit? :D 19:15:46 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:15:51 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:15:53 p_l: I wouldn't know about stability, the work hasn't been done yet. And no, 32bit. 19:16:15 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:24 nyef: i've just M-x slime-mode'ed in my .org's. Also using BEGIN_SRC lisp blocks, C-c ' will take you to a buffer in slime mode with you code. 19:16:25 nyef: then I doubt I'd have the energy to work on it in addition to what was to be implemented in it 19:16:31 SPARC is a third-tier SBCL platform at best. 19:16:34 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-63.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:17:06 drewc: Fair enough. I don't actually have slime and org running in the same emacs yet anyway. 19:17:41 In case anyone is interested how to get debian UFFI (and therefore cl-sql) running on 64bit: 19:18:10 # cd /usr/lib/clsql && ln -s clsql_uffi64.so clsql_uffi.so 19:18:11 using org-mode for literate lisp programming, do you actually get web-style named code chunks? 19:18:39 flip214: don't forget to mention debian. 19:18:42 nyef: heh, seems like it won't matter anyway, as Oracle killed the promotion 19:18:53 -!- smik [~siddhant3@180.215.26.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:56 xach: "how to get debian UFFI" ... 19:19:03 flip214: Oh, sorry. Missed that. 19:19:11 xach: no problem. 19:19:30 I remembered having seen that in a mail somewhere about 2005 ... seems that's still so. 19:19:56 drewc: I'm planning on building a webapp that involves a single screen with several side-tabs, an AJAX-updated chan area in the middle, and some possibly-interesting state changes for the contents of those tabs. Does that sound like something I might want a more advanced toolset than just plain old ht? :) 19:20:14 Well, thanks everybody. Back to hacking. Nice evening! 19:20:15 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:21:05 smik [~siddhant3@180.215.24.226] has joined #lisp 19:23:01 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:23:22 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:28 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-226.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:24:06 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:24:08 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:31 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:49 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-139-221.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:25:14 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:25:42 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:24 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:26:53 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:56 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-63.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:27:18 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.126.100] has joined #lisp 19:28:00 i'm using ccl, and the foreign-type-alignment for a C pointer for example is 64 bits 19:28:14 but actually on OSX it seems to be 32 bits, at least that's what my tests with GCC tell me 19:28:24 which leads CCL to generate incorrect FFIs 19:28:28 anybody know about this? 19:29:03 flip214: that sounds like a bug in cl-sql's debian package, not in uffi. You should submit a bugreport. 19:29:04 manuel___: You may want to ask on #ccl. 19:29:17 sykopomp: you might, but you can get pretty far with the basics. Your best bet is to hack something simple up, then use the experience gained in doing so to figure out what it is you actually need 19:29:26 imo 19:29:51 oh, you disappeared. 19:30:02 drewc: that's good advice :) 19:30:10 sykopomp: handlers returning JSON is a pretty simple model if you do all the hard work on the client. 19:30:13 I keep having false starts with all this web stuff. 19:30:17 javascript is a tolerable lisp 19:31:07 *nyef* shudders in memory of the particularly demented server-side javascript environment he last worked with. 19:31:09 sellout: thx 19:31:33 Took until after the job was done for me to realize why and how it was screwed up. 19:31:38 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 19:31:52 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:32:04 nyef: which envronment was it? 19:32:49 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:11 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-63.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:33:32 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:34:00 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:36 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:42 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:35:09 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:42 Some enterprise CRM system or other. 19:36:33 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:42 timor [~timor@port-92-195-137-145.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:39 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:06 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:40:43 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:41:09 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:38 http://www.doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/tmp/swankr-images.png 19:41:46 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:41:46 image presentations in swank-for-R 19:41:54 -!- guther [~guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:14 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:15 Krystof: Sweet! 19:42:38 ... Still sweet. 19:42:58 Can I get some of that for swank-for-SBCL? 19:43:01 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:43:25 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:11 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:44:36 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:41 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:17 well, the image support is in its own contrib 19:45:20 it doesn't entirely work 19:45:21 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:45:40 and then you have to write bits of swank to do the imagey bit too 19:45:47 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:50 I was afraid of that. 19:46:19 But this is -precisely- one of my major gripes with SLIME: Presentations don't have any sort of rendering control. 19:46:23 it's 20 lines of R code :-) 19:46:33 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:46:44 -!- guther_ [guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:46:58 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:43 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 19:47:46 well, with 23.x we can use custom X11 code for drawing in presentations... 19:48:11 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:31 p_l: I'd be happy enough with the ability to set a bitmap image, which has been possible on the emacs side for ages, just not in SLIME. 19:49:35 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 19:51:30 foobar_ [guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has joined #lisp 19:51:40 powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-19-181.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:53 -!- foobar_ [guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has quit [Client Quit] 19:52:43 the issue is not the drawing, it is the writing of code 19:52:50 I may have said something similar 10 or so years ago 19:53:06 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has quit [Quit: bye!] 19:54:00 Mmm. One of the main reasons I've never hacked slime to make it happen is that I'd be stuck with the maintenance. 19:55:22 wow, that looks sweet 19:55:46 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:00:03 gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:01:07 Krystof: oh, cool! 20:02:13 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:12 Krystof: very nice! 20:03:31 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-31-251.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:06:12 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:06:47 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.126.100] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 20:06:48 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:14 -!- svk_ [~kaw@svk.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:08:35 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.126.100] has joined #lisp 20:09:08 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:09:35 now, all I need is a proper slime hacker to turn this into useful reusable code 20:09:44 I wonder if I can find a company somewhere stuffed to the gills with slime hackers 20:12:06 you could start one! 20:13:10 I could! 20:13:43 *Xach* wonders who made waaf-cffi 20:13:58 Krystof: not any more you couldn't 20:14:00 ... "waaf-cffi"? 20:14:17 Something to do with rock radio, maybe? 20:14:25 -!- smithzv_ is now known as smithzv 20:14:41 https://sites.google.com/site/lithpthtuff/home/waaf-cffi 20:14:43 krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:14:50 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:57 Ugh. Lame sense of humour. 20:15:10 svk_ [~kaw@svk.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:12 xach: it's on cffi-devel 20:16:05 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:38 thanks 20:20:13 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:24:46 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:26:49 rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:49 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:05 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0BEC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:27:13 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:53 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:30:02 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:34:26 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:41:12 guther_ [guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has joined #lisp 20:41:12 guther [~guther@92-55-242-8.net.pbthawe.eu] has joined #lisp 20:42:06 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:42:11 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757366.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:02 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-67-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:43:55 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-137-145.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:31 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:44:31 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:44:49 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.126.100] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 20:44:56 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:48:04 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-10-251.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 20:49:33 execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has joined #lisp 20:49:36 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl10-156-219.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:50:13 How to set default font on Windows Emacs (in init.el) to Courier New bold 10 ? 20:50:53 don't you use the X version ? 20:51:02 ... probably something to do with "face". Apropos is your friend... as is the customization thing, sometimes. 20:51:05 there is a menu for selecting it 20:51:21 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:36 *nyef* is a member of the "disable the menu, toolbar, and scrollbars ASAP" contingent. 20:51:58 nyef: stumpwm? 20:52:08 "disable every decoration, period" < stumpwm 20:52:15 I must use set-default-font 20:52:20 antivigilante_ [~antivigil@63-225-214-239.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:25 to what ? 20:52:33 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-214-239.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52:54 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:10 prljavi_hari: perhaps you'd have better luck in #emacs 20:53:23 ok 20:53:42 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 20:55:50 bougyman: Oh, I don't kill my window manager, though that -has- been tempting a time or two... 20:56:12 nyef: i went to stump 3 years ago and haven't looked back. 20:56:28 it's the only thing I regularly hack on in lisp, so bonus there. 20:56:37 my dayjob is all ruby and javascript (couchdb) 20:57:06 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-10-251.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 20:58:50 Kaer [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:59:45 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 21:00:06 -!- andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has left #lisp 21:01:02 -!- rrice [~rrice@oh-67-76-18-254.sta.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:01:26 -!- Kae [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:01:34 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:02 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 21:02:47 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-218-98.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:03:37 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:04:16 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:04:37 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-211-243.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:33 kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:25 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.145.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:07:30 stumpwm couldn't deal with these apps that INSIST on having plenty of windows. 21:07:38 like, gimp, or some such. 21:07:44 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0BEC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:15 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.170.59] has joined #lisp 21:09:45 Fare: That's pretty much the reason I use awesome now 21:11:21 Fare: it supports floating now. 21:11:30 i used tmpwm and awesome for those crappy apps. 21:11:38 gimpshop makes gimp itself workable. 21:11:46 but there are still some (openoffice, i'm looking at you) 21:11:59 stump can handle em now 21:12:09 you temporarily switch window managers when you run an app? 21:12:12 that sounds really confusing 21:13:03 I'm happily using KDE for the moment, but next time I feel like changing, I'll give another try at stumpwm, and if not that, at awesome. 21:13:12 foom: it kind of is. 21:13:26 but not overly so. 21:13:31 http://ejohn.org/apps/learn/#13 I was under the impression that JavaScript was supposed to be lexically scoped :( 21:13:38 except for `this' 21:13:57 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:14:07 this is special 21:14:49 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-243-73.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:15:00 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-243-73.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:15:30 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-243-73.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:45 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-243-73.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:48 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-234-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:16:50 what is special? 21:16:54 this is 21:16:58 literally. 21:17:06 'this', the metavariabl in ecma 21:17:11 metavariable, even. 21:17:12 Fare: The `this' var in JavaScript. 21:17:26 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-234-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:18:03 'this' is not a pipe 21:18:17 Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:24 timor [~timor@port-92-195-126-184.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:18:34 How would one go about GCing a computer? 21:19:11 Phantom_Hoover: "a computer"? What do you mean? 21:19:38 The entire memory space, including disk. 21:20:18 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-67-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:20:21 disk and memory address space usually aren't the same. 21:20:51 Yes, but this question assumes that they are both mapped to the same abstract address space. 21:21:12 "like memory", then. 21:21:34 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:48 Yes, why not? 21:22:07 OK, so how would one go about GCing it? 21:22:17 like memory. 21:23:25 *Without resorting to stop-the-world. 21:23:38 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4EF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:25:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-117-13.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:37 like memory. Read on locality-oriented and concurrent GC algorithms. Later on, it might be good to develop specific tricks, but they'll most likely be very similar to what already exists to exploit caches. 21:25:44 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:26:55 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp 21:28:25 hmm, was just about to answer that you have two wordls 21:28:29 *worlds 21:28:43 and that you don't stop, you switch 21:30:51 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:28 is there a version of clips that uses clisp? 21:31:40 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-63.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 21:31:55 -!- gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:56 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-33-196.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:33:33 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-41-199.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:34:10 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:38:56 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 21:40:14 -!- navigator [~navigator@p54892977.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 21:42:02 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:45:01 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-78-162.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:46:06 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 21:47:58 -!- powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-19-181.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 21:49:46 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:50:02 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 21:50:04 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:03 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Client Quit] 21:55:18 -!- smik [~siddhant3@180.215.24.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:59:13 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-126-184.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:00:35 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0BEC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:01 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:04 radsis [~quassel@c-24-22-21-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:50 -!- mmullis_ [~mmullis@208.65.90.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:06:26 -!- manuel___ [~manuel_@p54B8BE2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel___] 22:06:51 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 22:13:30 timor [~timor@port-92-195-17-221.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:19:01 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:19:03 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:28 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:20:36 -!- SE555 [~user@207.178.208.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:48 -!- antivigilante_ [~antivigil@63-225-214-239.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:21:18 antivigilante_ [~antivigil@63-225-214-239.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:12 Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 22:22:18 Hi 22:23:50 asn [~fl@gentoo/developer/asn] has joined #lisp 22:23:56 LiamH: I'm working on the fft tests (during the little time I have) and have a question. Why do you use lisp-unit:assert-norm-equal for the vectors? I mean, isn't checking the norm more computationally intensive and less accurate than testing the individual components? 22:25:14 Many functions like numberp that return whether a statement is true are named with *p* in the end. Like, numberp, primep, etcetera. What does the p mean? 22:25:26 predicate 22:26:10 oh thank you :) 22:26:22 -!- asn [~fl@gentoo/developer/asn] has left #lisp 22:26:22 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-31-251.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 22:26:53 Is there actually a rule of naming your own predicates? When do you use sometypep and when do you use some-type-p 22:27:01 Or which is better 22:27:39 Sikander: trying to emulate the GSL tests. 22:28:08 Sikander: I think the Lisp convention is: multiple-word-p, singlewordp 22:29:27 Sikander: in general, what LiamH says. In practice, it's a mess. :\ 22:29:56 (defstruct will slap a -p on everything, and some predicates in standard CL don't even use -p for historical reasons) 22:30:48 LiamH: But the FFT tests don't check the norm. 22:31:05 Sikander: really? hmm. 22:31:58 LiamH: What they do, is they check element for element, adding the differences and seeing whether these differences exceed a number (max-ticks) 22:32:11 LiamH: At least, that's how I read it 22:32:37 Sikander: yes, that's the equivalent of the infinity norm, i.e. max 22:33:10 tmh put that into the norm tests, so I just use that: find the max, and if it exceeds the ticks, you fail 22:33:13 sykopomp: That's what I thought. I never could find a "system"; at first I thought the rule was as LiamH said. But I found several exceptions 22:34:23 LiamH: I am not familiar with infinity norm, then. I thought it calculated the norms of the vectors, and then compared the results. 22:35:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_%28mathematics%29#Maximum_norm_.28special_case_of:_infinity_norm.2C_uniform_norm.2C_or_supremum_norm.29 22:36:14 LiamH: Already reading it :) Thanks 22:38:46 LiamH: So it first subtracts the two vectors and then calculates the infinity norm? 22:39:08 Sikander: yes, in other words, the max of the absolute value of the difference 22:39:09 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 22:40:11 LiamH: Ok. Due to the naming, I thought it was just calculating the Euclidian norm 22:40:29 Sikander: I hope there's an :infinity in there somewhere. 22:40:50 I think it's bound to a special 22:41:19 LiamH: Oh, yes, *measure*. I see it. 22:41:27 yup 22:42:20 LiamH: Never mind. I thought that perhaps that was the reason of the *much* longer time it takes for the tests to complete. 22:42:38 s/of/for/ 22:42:52 Well it may be, I don't know how that infinity norm is implemented. 22:43:22 Ok, then. I'll go about my business again. 22:43:31 smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:47 bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 22:44:07 LiamH: Btw, quick and dirty testing with stride gives me 0 fails. But it's quite slow. 22:44:25 Sikander: ooh, nice. Got to go now, talk to you later. Thanks for the work. 22:44:38 LiamH: Later. I'm going to bed *yawn* 22:44:44 Goodnight 22:44:54 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:44:59 -!- Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:45:03 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:46:23 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:47:13 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:48:17 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 22:48:19 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:48:27 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:35 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 22:48:45 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest46444 22:48:54 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:58 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:18 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:25 ok, anyone up to helping me finally get a lisp running on my server, without hogging all of the RAM? 22:50:13 zc00gii, what are you trying to do? 22:50:50 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:50:57 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-d932ec9e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:51:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:51:04 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 22:51:06 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 22:51:49 smik [~siddhant3@180.215.57.121] has joined #lisp 22:52:23 -!- lurker-x [~androirc@32.168.220.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:53:07 -!- Guest46444 [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:53:16 Fare: I've been trying it for days 22:53:22 I'm sure you know 22:53:27 asdf won't freaking work 22:53:36 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 22:53:43 is there any other lisp that takes like, no RAM, and comes with asdf besides clisp 22:53:44 ? 22:54:02 pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:27 "Won't freaking work" is no description of the problem. 22:54:29 "sbcl --dynamic-space-size 100" ? 22:54:47 foom: hmm 22:54:52 as long as you won't, e.g. paste your specific problems in a paste bot, we can't help 22:55:00 -!- bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 22:55:12 clisp does not come with asdf, btw. 22:55:18 I'm not asking for a solution to a problem 22:55:20 Fare: I know that 22:55:33 (though with c-l-c it kind of does) 22:55:54 if there's no problem then what are you complaining about? 22:56:13 there are plenty of Lisp hackers ready to help you for $$$ 22:56:30 if what you want is general help without a specific problem. 22:56:52 is there any other lisp that takes like, no RAM, and comes with asdf 22:56:53 besides clisp 22:56:53 ? 22:57:11 did you try clozure cl? 22:57:15 zc00gii: your problem is lack of memory in your VPS box, right? 22:57:20 you only have 1GB 22:57:21 for which target platform? 22:57:21 Maybe you'll have better luck with, say, ECL or something? 22:57:32 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:57:32 Adamant: well 22:57:35 I have enough 22:57:37 Armed Bear or other small Lisps? 22:57:42 but, I can't use it all the time 22:57:50 Wasp Lisp is tiny but not CL 22:58:03 *_3b* would just use ccl or 32 bit sbcl, possibly with a reduced heap 22:58:11 sbcl with --dynamic-space-size set to whatever your app needs should work fine. 22:58:12 ccl, ecl, cmucl, lispworks, allegro... 22:58:23 of course you should note that sbcl doesn't actually *USE* the space it allocates even if you don't use that param 22:58:33 I can't get it small enough, however 22:58:34 not to forget clisp 22:58:36 sbcl 22:58:46 what's small enough? 22:58:47 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.45.253.35] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:58:50 zc00gii, what is the symptom? 22:58:54 Fare: well 22:58:55 you still don't describe it. 22:58:55 I mean 22:58:58 I have enough RAM 22:59:06 is there an error message? a segfault? thrashing? 22:59:08 but, since it's burst, I can't use it all the time 22:59:10 no no 22:59:11 1GB is *a lot* 22:59:12 no error 22:59:17 but I need to keep it down 22:59:26 where does that "need" come from? 22:59:28 I can only use half of that 24/7 22:59:36 DME 22:59:37 I *need* a million dollar. Right NOW! 22:59:47 so 500 megs constant. 22:59:50 what's DME ? 22:59:51 look, if I don't keep it down, DME will bitch, and shut off my VPS 22:59:55 500 MB is still plenty. 22:59:57 my host 23:00:08 then just use 500MB. 23:00:23 *_3b* has run sbcl on a 256mb vps, and that was with erlang using 90mb or so, + apache etc 23:00:27 how much other shit are you running and how much memory does it consume? 23:00:28 I can't keep it down that low 23:00:45 zc00gii: before or after loading your code? 23:00:48 what are you doing with it? 23:00:50 before 23:00:51 sbcl runs great in 500mb... 23:01:00 zc00gii: try limiting the heap size 23:01:01 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@erlang.pnet.com.pl] has quit [Quit: ZzzZ] 23:01:02 Are you also counting the massive overcommit for the heap reservation or something? 23:01:04 with? 23:01:10 Adamant: how? 23:01:11 why can't you just --dynamic-space-size $somenumber ? 23:01:15 previously mentioned command 23:01:17 like that one 23:01:29 Stock SBCL, at idle, shouldn't take more than 50 megs on -any- platform. 23:01:31 I tried sbcl --dynamic-space-size=5 23:01:38 5 is too small 23:01:41 so? 23:01:44 still doesn't work 23:01:49 100, still huge 23:01:56 zc00gii: because it's too small and probably ignoring it. 23:02:09 100 is? 23:02:12 fine 23:02:14 try that 23:02:19 I said I did 23:02:27 <_3b> or just use 32 bit sbcl, it defaults to 512MB heap limit already :p 23:02:30 I've tried 75, 50 23:02:37 _3b: I do use 32bit sbcl 23:02:47 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:47 Linux opal 2.6.18-194.8.1.el5.028stab070.2 #1 SMP Tue Jul 6 14:55:39 MSD 2010 i686 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9550 @ 2.83GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux 23:02:53 I must 23:02:55 100 works. it "uses" only 120MB. Great, you're done. 23:03:10 (of course it's only actually using < 5MB, if you count properly) 23:03:29 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:03:32 the --dynamic-space-size thing isn't working 23:03:43 yes it is 23:03:49 oh! 23:03:54 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 23:03:58 you don't use an equals sign 23:04:01 thank you very much :) 23:04:05 lol 23:04:08 it happens 23:04:17 now 23:04:21 to get the latest sbcl to compile 23:04:23 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:45 With that small a dynamic space? Good luck! 23:06:56 I'll play with it 23:07:03 presumably he can compile with a normal space 23:07:06 I just need it > 500 23:07:07 since that's burst mem usage 23:07:14 zc00gii: why don't you compile it elsewhere? 23:07:25 anyone know if clx should work ok with sbcl? 23:07:28 why do you compile it at all? 23:07:41 can't you get a package for your OS? 23:07:45 funny how we've gotten used to gigabytes of memory 23:07:47 Right. When running genesis, it needs to basically have two cores resident, plus an extra compiler... 23:08:06 derrida: Should work great. Try the glx-fixes version! 23:08:13 and of email space 23:08:20 i have a server with 64M of real memory that I'm using for DNS and another app 23:08:32 it's funny when I hear of companies that still have a 25*megabyte* email storage limit 23:08:40 (virtual server actually) 23:08:49 foom: Or less! 23:08:57 pkhuong_: no 32-bit machine at my disposal 23:08:58 nyef: haven't heard of anyone with less. :) 23:08:59 but it's ok 23:09:02 I can use my burst usage 23:09:07 but not 24/7 23:09:34 (I'm planning on using sbcl run a fcgi server, and use cl-who, as well as clsql, for webdev) 23:11:25 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 23:11:41 zc00gii: you can run a 32 bit build on an x86-64 host. 23:12:03 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:14 pkhuong_: sure, but I'm too lazy to make a cross compiler 23:12:28 normally you don't need to 23:12:37 *shrug* 23:12:49 this thing has better processing speeds then my desktop 23:13:20 WARNING! Some of the contrib modules did not build successfully or pass 23:13:21 their self-tests. Failed contribs:" 23:13:23 asdf-install 23:13:28 sb-bsd-sockets 23:13:33 sb-concurrency 23:13:34 argiopeweb [~elliot@64-193-4-189.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:38 sb-posix 23:13:40 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.0.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:13:43 sb-simple-streams 23:13:43 nyef: i think it's xlib causing the problems possibly, it complains about clx-demos though 23:13:48 Aborting... 23:13:51 xinming [~hyy@115.221.14.88] has joined #lisp 23:13:53 god dammit 23:14:05 is there a best/reference current ops5/rete implementation that runs in CL/sbcl? 23:14:06 *zc00gii* cries 23:14:25 derrida: CLX doesn't -use- xlib... But it does have an XLIB package. 23:14:42 zc00gii: why are you building yourself again? 23:14:46 derrida: So, what's the actual problem you're having? 23:15:11 machine is too small or sumthin 23:15:16 pkhuong_: because arch doesn't have .42 of the latest 23:15:17 but uh 23:15:26 how is .37? 23:15:35 that's the latest 23:15:43 (arch has) 23:15:54 I see 1.0.42/linux-x86 on the homepage. 23:16:10 You can read the changelog to see if there's anything you really need. 23:16:41 zc00gii, you can easily debootstrap a 32-bit chroot inside a 64-bit system. 23:17:50 screw it, I'm just using .37 23:18:22 nyef: honestly, very hard for me to tell from the output. this is what happens when i (require 'clx:( http://paste.lisp.org/display/114512 23:18:52 -!- kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: kjbrock] 23:19:10 *(require 'clx) : 23:20:23 That... looks like the typical ASDF nonsense when you have a failed build or are missing one of the later fasls. 23:20:26 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@64-193-4-189.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:20:33 It doesn't know to load the earlier ones before building the later ones. 23:20:34 guahr 23:20:54 Don't know how to REQUIRE FCGI. 23:21:07 nyef: ugh 23:21:09 Actually, scratch that, WTF is with the :CLX-DEMOS vs. :DEMOS bit? 23:21:16 i wondered that too 23:22:06 zc00gii: what are you doing to need FCGI? 23:22:14 -!- smik [~siddhant3@180.215.57.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:22:16 pkhuong_: fcgi stuff 23:22:21 Or to not have all the dependencies to whatever package you use. 23:22:44 hmm 23:22:48 And my local copy of demo/clx-demos.lisp does a defpackage :demos, not defpackage :clx-demos. 23:23:04 Where'd you get your clx from? 23:24:51 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:45 ... clbuild? That's... worrisome. 23:26:05 why won't the damn thing require! 23:27:19 because you haven't set asdf right. 23:27:39 pkhuong_: well yeah, but idk what I've done wrong 23:27:58 I have a ~/lisp/asdf dir 23:28:05 You could try to use clbuild or quicklisp. 23:28:13 and it has a symlink to fcgi.asd 23:28:16 no I can't 23:28:24 it doesn't have a cliki link 23:28:53 and I'm getting pretty sick of that response, I've been using asdf-install forever, I can't just switch. I don't get the hype 23:29:02 but I can't use asdf-install anyway, it has no cliki link 23:29:35 zc00gii: and what's the value of asdf:*central-registry*? 23:30:09 zc00gii, stop complaining 23:30:15 you'll only end up /ignore'd 23:30:25 Fare: I'm not complaining 23:30:31 ("/home/zc00gii/lisp/asdf" 23:30:32 (MERGE-PATHNAMES ".sbcl/systems/" (USER-HOMEDIR-PATHNAME)) 23:30:32 (LET ((ASDF::HOME (POSIX-GETENV "SBCL_HOME"))) 23:30:34 if you have something that works - great. If not - then why not change for a setup that works? 23:30:36 (WHEN (AND ASDF::HOME (NOT (STRING= ASDF::HOME ""))) 23:30:41 (MERGE-PATHNAMES "site-systems/" (TRUENAME ASDF::HOME)))) 23:30:46 *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS*) 23:30:55 you're using an old ASDF 23:31:05 ah 23:31:12 <_3b> zc00gii: please stop pasting things into the channel 23:31:16 (asdf:asdf-version) ??? 23:31:41 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.160.125] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:57 you also probably are missing the / at the end of "...lisp/asdf/" 23:32:05 zc00gii: I think you're just missing a .. right. 23:32:26 eh? 23:32:30 so if you're trying to upgrade to new asdf from old, you're losing. 23:32:44 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839B40.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:33:05 powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-19-181.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:11 ty :) 23:33:54 w00t 23:34:07 ; /home/zc00gii/lisp/fcgi-0.7/gray-streams.fasl written 23:34:26 -!- antivigilante_ [~antivigil@63-225-214-239.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:34:28 if you want to thank -- be less obnoxious next time 23:35:51 asdf2 is more forgiving of missing / in its source-registry and a-o-t configurations. But the central-registry is still what it is. 23:37:07 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:38:53 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:02 dumb question: is there some way I can recompile a function in slime and see all those notes about unreachable code? I'm trying to debug unexpectedly unreachable code... 23:41:22 SBCL, I should have said... 23:41:45 sure, just compile it..again 23:41:57 C-c C-c if it's in a buffer, or RET if it's in a repl :) 23:44:37 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-243-101.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: postamar] 23:44:39 zc00gii: ah. I see. So I had actually /fixed/ (made reachable) my unreachable code. thanks. 23:45:00 no problem 23:46:06 rpg: you can test it by doing an (if nil "This is unreachable code!" "This is not") 23:47:32 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 23:47:40 zc00gii: Actually, if I paste the defun into the repl, I get no unreachable code notes; if I compile it using C-c C-c I do... 23:47:49 odd 23:48:08 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-11-107.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:49:10 NE555 [~user@207.178.208.5] has joined #lisp 23:50:27 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:50:37 blargh 23:51:07 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:17 asdf isn't loading said .lisp file :D 23:51:18 D:* 23:51:44 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:53:10 -!- brandonz [~brandon@pool-74-97-30-61.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:53:13 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.1.39.125] has joined #lisp 23:53:56 yangsx [~yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:59:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec]