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03:22:36 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-114-150.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:04 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-173-66-9-70.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:25:26 emacs HAZ NO BUTINZ! 03:25:26 antivigilante, memo from pjb: there's no native support for coroutines in Common Lisp. Most implementations support threads, which you could use to implement coroutines. Otherwise, you can do yourself the transformations needed to implement coroutines. Something like that is done in UncommonWeb, to implement delimited continuations. 03:26:15 thx pjb 03:26:44 I tried playing with parrot and well their development stack isn't all there 03:27:00 so I decided lisp had won the that bid for now 03:28:15 people want buttons for their IDEs - plus all sorts of little automatic actions as in say Eclipse where it sorta anticipates your needs in the gui 03:28:38 but that's sort of like I want a nice interface not the linux kernel 03:28:50 i have no doubt emacs can do it 03:29:04 but apps have to created for emacs 03:29:12 on the flipside though 03:29:21 the gui is a hallucination 03:29:33 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:29:33 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.112.50.19] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:29:33 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@38-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:29:34 -!- milanj [~milanj_@77-46-219-161.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:29:34 -!- froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:29:34 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:29:34 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:29:34 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:29:34 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:29:34 -!- Tril [tril@bespin.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:29:35 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:01 most of what happens in a program is dealing with variables and resources - the gui is the least of your concerns 03:32:17 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:32:35 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:32:37 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:44 antivigilante: it is indeed a good idea to implement the user interface in emacs. 03:36:01 antivigilante: in the case of lisp, if you need a simple gui with buttons etc, you could use Ltk. 03:36:04 minion: ltk? 03:36:05 ltk: LTK is a Common Lisp Graphics Toolkit Library for Tk, which provides a complete CLOS binding to the Tk widget set. http://www.cliki.net/ltk 03:36:14 Is Common Lisp well-suited to writing distributed applications? 03:36:30 Yes. 03:37:11 In particular, you can easily serialize code (ie. sexps) with the lisp printer, to send them over to another node, where it'll be evaluated. 03:37:24 milanj [~milanj_@77-46-219-161.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 03:38:13 So it lends itself to distributed programming much more so than more procedural languages such as Java, Objective C, C#, etc.? 03:38:34 Somewhat, yes. 03:38:45 OK, thanks. 03:38:58 Moreover you can hide complexities of distribution inside macros, so it's very cool. 03:39:05 Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.112.50.19] has joined #lisp 03:39:05 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 03:39:05 froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 03:39:05 CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 03:39:05 rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:05 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 03:39:05 Tril [tril@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 03:39:05 15SAAIDL0 [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:39:37 -!- Ginei_Morioka is now known as Guest37031 03:39:55 pjb: I'm glad you're good at lisp-evangelizing because I'm not 03:40:05 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:40:09 I've never done distributed work, but I've just looked at Erlang (which has some drawbacks) so I've been wondering how CL would compare. 03:40:27 I hadn't thought of passing around sexps. :) 03:40:34 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:41:22 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.134] has joined #lisp 03:42:22 lemoinem [~swoog@38-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:28 -!- 15SAAIDL0 [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:43:16 aidalgol: See for example: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~wing/publications/Clamen-Wing89.pdf and http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~wing/publications/Clamen-Wing90.pdf 03:43:29 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:43:41 Or http://spectrodynamics.com/id59.html 03:53:21 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:54:10 _3b: here-p 03:54:19 <_3b> nope 03:54:25 darn 03:54:41 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-houxnkwrhvxjkftb] has joined #lisp 03:54:48 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008244.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has left #lisp 03:54:49 what's up? 03:55:36 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:56:03 <_3b> not much, been slacking off from coding too much lately :( 03:56:17 sometimes that is necessary 03:56:48 -!- baley [~baley@87.229.24.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:57:38 baley [~baley@87.229.24.201] has joined #lisp 03:59:32 abugosh [~Adium@pool-173-66-9-70.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:37 it helps to stop for a while, take a breather and pick up fresh 04:01:44 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:02 Good morning everyone! 04:03:09 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-173-66-9-70.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:03:19 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.28] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 04:03:23 thanks 04:03:39 beach, are you working on clim3? 04:04:07 Funny you should ask. I worked on it all day yesterday. 04:04:12 abugosh [~Adium@pool-173-66-9-70.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:46 tankrim` [~user@h-109-228-186-171.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 04:05:00 how's that going? 04:05:25 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:05:27 manic12: Pretty well, but there is a long way to go. 04:06:36 i know that feeling! 04:07:03 didn't you say something about output records going to be in relative coordinates? 04:07:34 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-173-66-9-70.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:08:02 -!- yangsx [~yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:08:03 manic12: Indeed. 04:08:15 jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-224-109.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:30 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:09 we have an extended io module from composer with output records/presentations that make text highlighting very fast, and I'm interested in the idea of relative coords for them 04:10:15 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@202-173-162-181.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:10:36 to have a lisp listener with a virtually infinite history 04:10:46 Sounds good. 04:11:43 sweet 04:13:04 manic12: I am making pretty radical changes in other parts of the spec as well. 04:13:12 what do you think of the idea of "dribbling" output records to a file? 04:13:26 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:13:45 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.134] has joined #lisp 04:13:48 "paging out" listener history 04:13:57 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.120.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 04:14:07 manic12: Why not just use the paging mechanism of the OS? 04:14:26 abugosh [~Adium@pool-173-66-9-70.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:44 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:14:59 if you have limited lisp heap 04:15:04 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:06 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-173-66-9-70.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:15:16 manic12: Why would you have a limited Lisp heap? 04:15:26 32bit? 04:15:53 manic12: By the time I am done with CLIM3, most computers will be at least 64-bit. 04:15:55 you answered my question 04:16:05 :) 04:16:52 on windows even in 64bit, other applications tend to limit contiguous space for lisp heap 04:17:14 I see. 04:17:27 are you going to implement an OS? 04:17:39 not likely 04:17:45 So, we should add extra complications in the GUI library in order to compensate for crappy Lisp implementations on crappy OSes? 04:18:11 i prefer the term 'rustic' to 'crappy' 04:18:27 manic12: It's fine if someone else would like to do that. I have better things to do with my time. 04:18:29 i don't use a "crappy" lisp 04:19:13 manic12: Perhaps "crappy" was a bit strong. But you get the picture. 04:19:27 what os is non-crappy? 04:19:29 i don't know of too many crappy lisp implementations (except autolisp) 04:19:38 beach: To be honest, the jury is still out on if there will be a major shift to 64 bit address spaces. 04:20:02 idk, i like the idea of having 12 GB of memory 04:20:11 and the hardware guys will be on board, as they sell the memory 04:20:13 Having 12 gig of memory is no problem. 04:20:21 i have 12gb ram 04:20:23 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:20:34 That's independent of how large your process address spaces are. 04:20:34 (which makes me especially cool, i know) 04:20:47 oh i see 04:20:56 so you only need 64 bit at os level 04:21:03 then subdivide? 04:21:10 for applications? 04:21:23 That's one approach, and it keeps pointers reasonably small. 04:21:31 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:52 So there is some resistance to moving everything to 64 bit because it has some significant overhead and doesn't actually provide any benefit for the vast majority of situations. 04:21:55 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:22:14 cad programs being the exception 04:22:23 It's a bit like 640k is enough for everyone, but actually, 4 gig probably is. 04:22:51 i'm hoping for 3d email 04:23:12 ups? 04:23:22 oh "e"-mail 04:23:33 -!- kripton [~cc@190.228.67.114] has quit [] 04:24:05 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-223-211.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:24:34 yeah, i already get regular mail in 3d 04:25:00 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.120.236] has joined #lisp 04:25:09 if I could fall asleep I would 04:25:35 i recommend reading a math textbook 04:25:53 i have a few of those floating around 04:25:56 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:25:59 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:26:01 always puts me right out 04:26:10 derivative of ... 04:26:17 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:24 i have no idea how calculus works 04:26:55 that's too bad, because it's actually cool 04:28:09 i'm sure when i really, really have to use it for an impending deadline i'll be able to figure it out... 04:28:27 good luck with that! 04:29:26 (i hate it when people say that to me, sorry) 04:29:31 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.120.236] has quit [Client Quit] 04:29:40 dxq [~dxq@75.81.48.134] has joined #lisp 04:30:34 -!- dxq [~dxq@75.81.48.134] has left #lisp 04:31:11 (its okay, I was kinda asking for it :-/ , I actually do understand calculus...) 04:32:44 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey 04:34:06 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 04:34:25 whoever thought of the Laplace transform and turning differential equations into algebraic ones to solve and then untransform for the solution was a genius 04:34:58 (Laplace?) 04:35:19 dunno if he used it for that though 04:37:40 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.134] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:37:51 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.134] has joined #lisp 04:40:11 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:45:38 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:45:38 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:45:57 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.134] has joined #lisp 04:49:02 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 05:02:30 xan_ [~xan@125.129.235.196] has joined #lisp 05:03:25 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-116-43.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:04:08 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-120-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:05:10 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:09:10 lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 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quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:13:18 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:13:36 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.70] has joined #lisp 08:15:36 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:16:13 -!- homie [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:19:19 TraumaPwny [~TraumaPon@124-171-223-211.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:20:04 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-223-211.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:20:07 -!- TraumaPwny is now known as TraumaPony 08:20:59 homie [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has joined #lisp 08:23:28 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:25:04 Xof: congratulations on the new job (-: 08:25:11 looks very exciting (: 08:25:18 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-118-144.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:25:28 -!- Jubb [~ghost@24-151-75-175.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 08:27:54 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 08:28:33 thank you 08:29:57 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D0C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:00 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:30:02 -!- huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has left #lisp 08:30:50 your little opportunity sounds fun and exciting too 08:31:19 -!- valvola [~val@151.61.119.94] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 08:31:39 valvola [~val@151.61.119.94] has joined #lisp 08:32:39 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:32:58 indeed (: 08:33:05 exciting times ahead in this new decade 08:33:36 antifuchs: http://www.youtube.com/tippexperience 08:33:41 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.70] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:33:52 antifuchs: Nice idea, brilliantly executed - got any ideas for more words? 08:35:51 tnoborio [~tnoborio@EM111-188-1-48.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:36:15 legumbre_ 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[Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:17:53 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:13 no, but you could write a "reduce-duplicates" functions similar to remove-duplicates 09:23:09 okay, I'll go with that 09:26:23 -!- yangsx [~yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:28:28 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:29:14 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@114.Red-79-148-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:33:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@112.158.62.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:34:35 -!- homie [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has quit [] 09:36:06 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 09:37:06 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755700.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:16 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.57.112] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:38:24 benny: You can start by creating a hash table and then do (loop for (name . count) in list do (incf (gethash name table) count)). 09:39:32 benny: Then you can do a (let ((result '())) (maphash (lambda (key value) (push (cons key value))) table) result) 09:39:52 er, (push (cons key value) result) 09:39:58 benny: You get the idea. 09:40:20 Oh, and make that (incf (gethash name table 0) count) 09:40:24 yeah I already have code that does it, it just wasn't as elegant as calling reduce-duplicates 09:44:52 Krystof: congratulations on the new job! 09:45:13 thank you. I am now the proud owner of 1.8 jobs 09:45:40 This means you'll be way more active on #lisp again, just like all the other folks there! 09:45:51 yes, well 09:46:13 I certainly hope that the new job has rather less paperwork than the current job 09:46:27 -!- loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:46:31 -!- DaDa` [~user@247.72.202.62.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:46:45 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-70-219.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:46:59 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:48:16 whether that will be replaced by IRCtime is more debatable 09:48:22 also, shouldn't you be asleep? 09:48:53 and how do you feel about R on planet.lisp? 09:49:12 Krystof: 1.8, hmm. How does that metric work? 09:49:38 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:50:02 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-69-217.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:52:58 luis: 3 0.6 jobs? (: 09:53:55 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-148-131.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:24 luis: I have not managed to get rid of any of my Goldsmiths responsibilities. Though I do have admin and teaching support, which maybe maybe means that I shouldn't count that as a whole job 09:55:24 I will do one day a week at Goldsmiths and then the other 19 days a week for Teclo 09:55:38 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 09:55:38 Ahah. 09:57:02 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-179-142.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:57:40 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-d932f420.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:44 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:58:10 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 10:00:19 Well, good luck with that! Having >1 jobs can be tough at times. 10:03:24 katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has joined #lisp 10:05:43 luis: s/>// ;) 10:05:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.15.179] has joined #lisp 10:06:38 hah 10:07:30 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:11 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-92-14-238.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:09:46 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C9A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:14 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:13:23 What is the best clisp development environment and setup? 10:14:22 emacs + slime? 10:15:04 Thank you :) 10:15:29 that basically goes for any common lisp, possibly (arguably) excluding lw, scl and acl. 10:15:51 -!- smik [~siddhant3@180.215.15.240] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 10:16:07 smik [~siddhant3@180.215.15.240] has joined #lisp 10:16:37 ACL has some nice gadgets for tracing, profiling, and browsing class hierarchies, but I use SLIME for everything else. 10:18:16 I work for a company that primarily develops in perl. I know very basic lisp from configuring Emacs etc etc. I'm looking to develop clisp skills for self-development. 10:18:40 katofiad: what book are you reading? 10:18:54 Xach: you hit Hacker News :D 10:19:02 clisp = specific implementation; cl = common lisp (just getting the acronyms straight to avoid misunderstandings) 10:22:12 hello lispers 10:22:48 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 10:23:18 I have these books: 10:23:21 the elements of artificial intelligence: an introduction to using lisp 10:23:22 lisp lore: a guide to programming the lisp machine: second edition 10:23:22 paradigms of artificial intelligence programming: case studies in common lisp 10:23:22 an introduction to programming in emacs lisp: second edition 10:23:22 lisp in small pieces 10:23:24 object oriented programming in common lisp 10:23:38 on sbcl-1.0.42 I'm having the following exception on another PC (not my laptop) http://paste.lisp.org/display/114184. Please help me 10:23:45 katofiad: have a look at Practical Common Lisp 10:23:58 katofiad: it might be the best place to start, I think. 10:24:12 Thanks for the pointers :D 10:24:18 -!- tnoborio [~tnoborio@EM111-188-1-48.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:24:22 kiuma: do you understand what the error means? 10:25:00 nikodemus, that the file contains non ascii chars 10:25:32 sbcl is emerged with unicode support into gentoo 10:25:33 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:40 kiuma: i did not ask that 10:26:36 I've just seen that locale is posix 10:26:41 sigh! 10:27:21 I thought I had already set it :/ 10:30:55 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:36:43 -!- tankrim` is now known as tankrim 10:36:55 -!- tankrim [~user@h-109-228-186-171.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has quit [Changing host] 10:36:56 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 10:38:48 -!- smik [~siddhant3@180.215.15.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:39:58 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:40:43 smik [~siddhant3@180.215.13.80] has joined #lisp 10:42:58 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:44:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:44:51 silenius [~silenus@p4FC234F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:01 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:52:41 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: zZzZzZz] 10:54:20 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:48 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.195.185] has joined #lisp 10:59:27 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 11:00:25 I'm just curious, is it just a matter of taste when it comes to alists and plists? Both should only really be used for small "hash tables" right? 11:01:08 alists are prettier for when you have multiple values 11:01:11 it's not always a matter of taste, and It Depends on your use case 11:01:18 plists are the same structure as keyword arguments 11:02:09 if you use characters or numbers for keys, for example, plists are pretty much out of the question 11:03:01 Hmm... interesting, and I understand it a bit better now. Thanks 11:04:15 jtza8: alists are also good for bi-directional lookup  RASSOC 11:08:08 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 11:11:07 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:08 bananutanpyjamas [~jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 11:16:08 -!- kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.212.232] has quit [Quit: Offline] 11:16:48 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.19.78.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:18:34 MaxMuen [maxmuen@kudu.in-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 11:20:12 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 11:23:11 rfg [~rfg@host81-102-109-24.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:21 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-163-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:24:24 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-163-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:26:34 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:27:18 tfb [~tfb@94.197.19.6.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:29:32 minion: gentle 11:29:32 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 11:30:36 thanks 11:32:19 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:34:21 p_l: How did you know what the question was? 11:34:22 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:34:32 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 11:34:38 ... 11:34:47 NO FUCKING IDEA 11:35:04 that was some coincidence o_O 11:35:14 Amazing! 11:35:33 MaxMuen: I don't recognize your nick! Are you new here? 11:37:14 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-houxnkwrhvxjkftb] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:37:26 spiaggia: I was helping another guy with his linked-list assignment in C++, and gave him gentle because it explains the topic very well with its nice drawings 11:38:23 It's nearly time to write CLAW documentation (my site made with claw www.wingstech.it) 11:38:55 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:43:23 spiaggia: i just joined, and i also just started learning lisp 11:44:13 MaxMuen: Congratulations! 11:44:19 xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has joined #lisp 11:44:21 MaxMuen: And welcome to #lisp. 11:45:17 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 11:46:04 spiaggia: thx 11:47:01 kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.179.199] has joined #lisp 11:50:25 -!- kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.179.199] has quit [Client Quit] 11:51:18 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:40 smik_ [~siddhant3@180.215.13.80] has joined #lisp 11:52:13 -!- smik [~siddhant3@180.215.13.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:56:06 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:32 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:57:39 -!- smik_ [~siddhant3@180.215.13.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:59:07 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:00:58 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:42 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:48 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:02:04 *katofiad* plays with slime 12:02:08 *katofiad* grins 12:03:41 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:50 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-229-149.rice.edu] has quit [Quit: plediii] 12:06:15 dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-106-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:17 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:06:17 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 12:08:32 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 12:09:14 just saw the new mailing-list, pro@common-lisp.net; is this appropriate to use it if you're not using common lisp at your day job, but use it regularly outside of it ? 12:09:37 urandom__ [~user@p548A6356.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:51 galdor: I would think so. But I didn't start it so I am not certain. 12:11:16 well at least I can read it :) 12:11:44 galdor: I am convinced nobody would check where you are employed, and what you do there. 12:12:14 If you email that list, and you aren't using lisp at work, do they check your references to tell? 12:12:23 it's a matter of courtesy, that's all 12:12:58 katofiad: I knew (and still know) some mailing-list and irc chans which are that drastic 12:13:48 Amazing. I have too many lists already. I think I should keep the private ones and just look at everything else through gmane or something. 12:14:45 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-148-131.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:15:14 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:19 galdor: I would imagine that mailing list is for bragging about our spiffy Lisp jobs. :) 12:15:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:16:10 -!- solussd_ [~solussd@user-0cdvpcd.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: solussd_] 12:16:46 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-42-217.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:17:35 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC234F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:24 solussd_ [~solussd@user-0cdvpcd.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 12:20:17 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-54-187.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:22:07 -!- mrSpec [spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:37 xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has joined #lisp 12:23:21 beach`` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-42-217.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:23:27 -!- beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-42-217.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:11 luis: haha, I didn't recognize you at first in #android-dev :D 12:25:56 -!- beach`` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-42-217.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:26:04 beach`` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-109-112.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:26:09 btw, has any of the SLIME developers read The Programmer's Apprentice? 12:26:35 Nope I wanted at some point but never came to it 12:26:43 did you? 12:26:49 *have 12:27:30 I wanted to line up with my "came" before 12:27:56 tcr: I skimmed it, didn't have time to properly study it (got enough problems on my head right now, might revisit it later when making an IDE for my project) 12:28:01 Still, seems like a very interesting proposition 12:28:14 -!- valvola [~val@151.61.119.94] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 12:28:43 definitely easier to implement with Lisp than other languages 12:29:25 what is it about? 12:29:29 the question is what sorts of patterns to embed (and probably requires implementing a proper CL non-interning reader in Emacs Lisp) 12:30:02 tcr: basically, an "AI" program that searches for patterns in your code, correcting them and pointing possible issues 12:30:20 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 12:30:30 all of it done interactively, so you don't have sudden case of "what the fuck changed my code?) 12:31:28 the original paper talks about KBEmacs, a Knowledge-Base equipped Emacs that has a database of various practices etc. and is capable of learning new rules 12:31:38 *p_l* really needs to devote time to read it properly, though 12:31:41 how does it differ from refactoring commands popular today? 12:32:31 lichtblau: it's similar, though from what I had seen for refactoring in other IDEs, it's usually much simpler and constrained compared to Apprentice 12:33:25 Programmer's Apprentice was a generic, extensible design to implement a "refactoring assistant" built in straight into "IDE" 12:36:29 *p_l* personally is interested in using that for making an easy-to-use programming environment for "non-professionals" 12:37:47 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-114-150.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:06 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 12:42:14 galdor: I can't find that list though. Where did you see that? 12:44:06 luis: http://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/d93vc/new_mailing_list_for_regular_users_of_common_lisp/ 12:44:09 got the link here 12:44:11 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 12:45:20 slash_1 [~unknown@p4FF0AD02.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:19 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 12:46:44 Well, that destroys the usefulness of that. 12:46:47 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 12:46:48 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C9A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:37 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:48:27 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:33 Xach: you're being pessimistic 12:48:50 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 12:50:11 i think there's a reasonable historical basis for being pessimistic. 12:50:55 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:14 well, since it's a mailing list noisy people can be silenced or kicked 12:51:23 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-120-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:52:03 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 12:52:29 somehow I doubt anything that appeared on reddit to avoid those issues... 12:53:00 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@153-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:54:05 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-116-43.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:54:11 new subs can also always be made automoderated, and automoderation can be set to "reject" :) 12:59:29 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:03:01 mephist__ [~mephisto@186-45-4-119.dynamic.tstt.net.tt] has joined #lisp 13:04:32 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:05:12 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:52 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:48 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 13:12:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:13:27 -!- mephist__ [~mephisto@186-45-4-119.dynamic.tstt.net.tt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:45 mephist__ [~mephisto@186-45-4-119.dynamic.tstt.net.tt] has joined #lisp 13:13:53 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:14:26 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:14:54 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:41 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 13:17:15 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:20:58 -!- aceluck [~aceluck@175.144.254.120] has quit [Quit: aceluck] 13:21:59 CET [~Caleb@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 13:22:05 test 13:22:14 Yay! It's working! :D 13:22:22 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:35 *Xach* is all booked for ILC, flight, & hotel 13:25:55 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:26:07 *p_l* wants a lisp conference closer to home :/ 13:26:38 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:05 H4ns [~Hans@p579F86F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:56 -!- rfg [~rfg@host81-102-109-24.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 13:28:17 xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has joined #lisp 13:31:26 ohih0wru [~andrei@78.84.161.6] has joined #lisp 13:32:53 CET: how do you know it's working? 13:35:21 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:37 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:39:19 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:41:19 stis 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has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:27:49 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:53 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483DECC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:18 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D0C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:30:50 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:32:00 uff, seems like I fixed my Emacs 15:32:09 can get back to work! :D 15:32:28 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:31 tnoborio [~tnoborio@124-144-181-41.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:32:54 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:48 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:36:28 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:38:34 -!- mephist__ [~mephisto@186-45-4-119.dynamic.tstt.net.tt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:36 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 15:42:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:17 hello, how can I define a postmodern column that is not part of the database, only the lisp object (so it is not written out to the db etc)? 15:42:49 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:35 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:45:11 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:39 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-202-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:45:39 -!- CET [~Caleb@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:45:45 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-202-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:48:01 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 15:48:18 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 15:48:19 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 15:49:27 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 15:50:07 ah, I simply just should not specify :col-type to said columns..:) 15:52:53 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:53:11 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:54:16 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:02:00 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:03:27 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 16:03:35 -!- atomx` [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:21 -!- bananutanpyjamas [~jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 16:09:28 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:49 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:10:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:10:52 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 16:16:32 p_l: next ELS will be in Hamburg. 16:17:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.70] has joined #lisp 16:17:43 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212-200-193-143.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:18:05 -!- tnoborio [~tnoborio@124-144-181-41.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:18:39 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:19:48 daaamn,Hamburg again. Well, I guess I might pull that one off,especially if I jump and give up studies, at least temporarily 16:19:51 -!- Guest37031 [irssi_log@78.112.50.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:21:19 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.50.19] has joined #lisp 16:22:40 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-169-211.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:23:00 moah [~gnu@188.109.167.9] has joined #lisp 16:24:02 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:17 srolls [~user@c-76-126-221-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:58 kalio [brado@unaffiliated/kalio] has joined #lisp 16:28:05 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:30:32 -!- kalio [brado@unaffiliated/kalio] has left #lisp 16:30:49 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:31:59 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 16:34:37 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.167.129] has joined #lisp 16:36:25 bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:25 -!- bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:36:25 bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 16:38:15 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-rdhtuzjsygwrvhkl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:41 revel0___ [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 16:39:00 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.195.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:39:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:41:27 -!- benny [~user@i577A33B4.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:41:49 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:17 -!- H4ns [~Hans@p579F86F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:44:59 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.50.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:46:33 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.195.174] has joined #lisp 16:47:18 Ok. That should, hopefully, fix the file buffering problem on cmucl. 16:47:22 Famous last works, I know. 16:47:37 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:48 timor [~timor@port-92-195-193-42.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:47:52 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 16:52:04 lat [7da78c9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 16:52:46 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:54:44 -!- lat [7da78c9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.125.167.140.159] has quit [Client Quit] 16:56:24 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:35 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:59:58 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 17:00:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:03:07 benny [~user@i577A28F4.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:05:19 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:42 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 17:08:30 tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:11 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:13:14 ignotus [~ignotus@catv-89-133-33-26.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:13:14 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@catv-89-133-33-26.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 17:13:14 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 17:14:52 dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has joined #lisp 17:14:52 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has quit [Changing host] 17:14:52 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 17:15:48 cools [~user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:08 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:23:43 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 17:24:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:25:22 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:26:13 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AD02.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:46 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:33:03 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-69-217.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:33:06 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-69-217.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:40:38 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-127-165.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:48:57 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 17:49:00 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-76-118-76-200.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:49:32 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-202-111.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:49:38 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-202-111.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:52:22 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [] 17:56:31 Felipe__ [5ac82d84@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.200.45.132] has joined #lisp 18:03:44 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.19.6.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 18:04:07 stassats`: Around? 18:04:15 yep 18:05:40 mephist__ [~mephisto@190.213.238.9] has joined #lisp 18:06:48 I had a question about slime-repl-mode-beginning-of-defun, but I need to check something out with xemacs first.... 18:09:37 -!- revel0___ [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 18:09:59 Ok. It seems that the latest version of xemacs passes an arg from beginning-of-defun-raw to slime-repl-mode-beginning-of-defun, which doesn't expect any args. This might be a bug in xemacs. 18:10:56 it seems that it has to have an optional argument in GNU Emacs too 18:11:00 Oh, but xemacs documents beginning-of-defun-function to be a function that takes one arg. 18:11:17 So that's a bug in slime then? 18:11:23 Did anyone other than me ever with that C-a C-c C-k recompiled the current file with maximum debug settings -- just like C-a C-c C-c does for toplevels? 18:11:28 *wish 18:11:42 deepfire: it does 18:11:47 but it's C-u, not C-a 18:11:51 for both cases 18:11:55 Oh, right, thanks a lot! 18:12:04 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f723c7f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:08 rtoym: looks like 18:12:10 I've read the documentation for the keystroke, but it didn't mention this.. 18:12:22 which documentation? 18:12:46 C-h C-k C-u C-c C-k 18:12:55 stassats`: Ok. I just hacked it by adding an optional arg that isn't used. Takes care of that problem, but there seems to be others. 18:13:02 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:13:29 deepfire: you mean C-h k C-c C-k? 18:13:40 stassats`, right, yeah 18:13:50 though it does mention 18:13:58 I've got old slime, then. 18:14:38 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 18:14:47 Thanks! 18:16:47 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:19 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 18:17:51 I was recovering these keystrokes from memory of what I did some days ago, which seems to be worser than my muscle memory.. 18:17:59 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:41 rtoym: strangely, it even works when i pass an argument 18:19:47 without modifying 18:20:05 i mean works correctly, backs up n "defuns" 18:20:37 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:20:45 stassats`: Oh, maybe xemacs is pickier about that. It signals an error that too many parameters passed to the function. 18:22:11 i'm passing through C-u, maybe it has a different meaning 18:22:49 I'm running into the problem at the repl. 18:22:50 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:16 I guess the test is to try (defun foo () 42) (foo 1) and see if emacs signals an error on that. It does on xemacs. 18:24:19 i see, emacs has condition-case around it and on `wrong-number-of-arguments' condition it iterates itself 18:25:03 Oh. Sounds like some kind of hackish backward compatibility thing. 18:25:03 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:40 anyway, i'll fix it to take an argument 18:26:07 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:26:19 Thanks! 18:26:45 Slime still seems to be somewhat broken with latest xemacs. Probably xemacs problems. 18:26:46 there is a comment above that condition-case, saying about backward compatibility 18:27:16 Heh. I was just guessing. 18:27:42 what xemacs version do you have? 18:27:51 Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 18:27:56 Hi 18:27:56 Sikander, memo from LiamH: 110 assertions passed, 180 failed, consistently. grid:copy-to makes a new grid copying the old one; it's not a good name. 18:28:13 Great! 18:28:40 i have XEmacs 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" 04811a268716 [Lucid] (i686-pc-linux) 18:28:49 Sikander: surprised to see you here so early! For a moment I thought the whole afternoon had gone by. 18:29:07 LiamH: Yes, usually I have dinner first. 18:29:24 Sikander: no eating, hack lisp! 18:29:36 Time enough for food in the grave! 18:29:36 LiamH: Indeed 18:29:49 -!- Felipe__ [5ac82d84@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.200.45.132] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:30:27 LiamH: So, did you have a chance to look at the specific case for no fsbv and gsl < 1.12? 18:30:29 Sikander: I tried the FFT tests when I got home but they wouldn't run at all, and I didn't have time to investigate. I'll look at them this weekend. 18:30:47 LiamH: Which version of gsl do you have there? 18:30:51 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:52 1.11 18:30:59 Ah, great. 18:31:06 but I do have FSBV 18:31:07 and slime has slime-repl-beginning-of-defun and slime-repl-mode-beginning-of-defun 18:31:08 oh well 18:31:09 If you can figure out that small part, then that would be great 18:31:28 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:31:33 Sikander: yes, and the proper stride/off-stride check 18:31:47 LiamH: I'm at least happy that we both get consistent failures now 18:31:48 :D 18:31:56 it's all chained together i can't keep it my head 18:31:59 Sikander: consistent failure is a worthy goal! 18:32:01 davazp [~user@205.Red-88-25-184.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:17 LiamH: In fact, I sometimes wrote test cases that were meant to fail 18:32:33 Sikander: me too, as I explain in the documentation. 18:32:35 Don't know if that is normal... 18:32:40 Ah, ok 18:32:47 Sikander: will you be on #lisp this weekend? 18:33:13 LiamH: I might be on Sunday, don't know about Saturday. 18:34:02 Sikander: 3 day weekend here, giving me two days to hack lisp and still go biking on Monday. 18:34:26 LiamH: Ah, that's great! I love long weekends 18:35:08 LiamH: I probably can check in briefly on Saturday 18:35:47 LiamH: Are you organizing a GSLL Weekend of Code? 18:36:03 I do want/need to do some non-lisp things too, but I'll try to work on it tomorrow. 18:36:25 o_O You have a life outside of lisp?! 18:36:30 Sikander: Ha! good idea, let's see who'll sign up. Me.... 18:36:51 Sikander: an minor one, yes 18:37:07 Jubb [~ghost@24-151-75-175.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:37:12 LiamH: I'll sign up, but give me enough notice; I at least _pretend_ to have a life 18:37:53 Well you've already done your weekend of work on the FFT and I haven't. 18:38:12 I'm also trying to fold FSBV into CFFI. 18:39:33 FSBV? 18:39:43 For Sale By Valet? 18:39:44 LiamH: Sounds like a good idea 18:39:55 (Foreign Structures By Value, presumably.) 18:40:05 http://repo.or.cz/w/fsbv.git 18:40:56 LiamH: I wanted to play around a bit with some fft'ing (a problem for work). For this, I was thinking also of trying to use CUDA (or even OpenCL) with lisp 18:41:06 My goal is to make it invisible to the user, so the interface will be just ordinary CFFI definitions as they are now, with the exception that when you refer to a structure by name, you mean the structure by value, and not a pointer to it. 18:41:47 Sikander: ooh, interesting. I suppose there are FFT packages for CUDA. 18:41:47 drewc [~user@S01060014bff6e985.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:02 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:42:29 LiamH: There should be. I used it quite a while ago, just to play around with it. It's _much_ faster than, say, fftw (and of course gsl fft) 18:43:05 So is it possible to make a CL interface to it? 18:43:21 LiamH: I hope so 18:43:37 Something you intend to try? 18:43:50 -!- bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:44:02 LiamH: OpenCL would be better, though; CUDA is nvidia only and OpenCL presumably would do other cards (e.g. ATI^H^H^HAMD) as well 18:44:06 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-69-217.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:44:09 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-69-217.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:44:28 LiamH: I intend to try. If I fail, I'll try to make some fftw bindings 18:44:28 Sikander: and "OpenCL" sounds so .... right! 18:45:30 LiamH: First, I'll just try to make some bindings (or see what there is out there). The plan is to then clean everything up and somehow try to fold it into GSLL and see if you will have it 18:45:33 Sikander: May I suggest using foreign-array as a base? Then we'll have library compatibility with GSLL and whatever else comes after. 18:45:42 stassats`: It's 21.5.29 from CVS/hg. The official 21.5.29 tarball doesn't have these problems and works pretty well. 18:45:49 LiamH: That was definately the plan. 18:46:01 bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 18:46:08 Sikander: OpenCL already works on nVidia (only nVidia GPUs), ATi (backends for CPU & ATi GPUs), presumably all cards in OSX (it uses a different implementation to AMD or nVidia one) and Cell 18:46:19 rtoym: i'm testing on the one from hg 18:46:32 p_l: Ah, great. Do you know of any (complete) CL bindings for it? 18:46:39 Sikander: I'd be interested in your development, and particularly what is missing from foreign-array/grid, including documentation. 18:46:47 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 18:47:02 LiamH: Sure. But it'll take some time to get anywhere... :D 18:47:11 stassats`: I'm grateful to you that you're testing on xemacs. 18:47:12 none. OpenCL has simple API, though, similar in style to OpenGL. Not many functions to do, most of the stuff is actually the stuff you code in OpenCL language. 18:47:30 Sikander: you're not trying to have a non-lisp life, are you? 18:47:31 *rtoym* needs to run. Will be back in a bit. 18:47:40 rtoym: i need somehow to reproduce your bugs 18:47:45 LiamH: If I can't get it working fast enough, I might just first try fftw using foreign-array 18:47:52 LiamH: Yes, I am *shame* 18:48:19 I presume that my possibly-radeon-9600 is too anemic to run OpenCL on? 18:48:30 Sikander: I've thought fftw would make a good "next library" to port. 18:48:41 nyef: most probably. 18:48:45 (lspci says it's a 9600, KMS says it's something in the 4xxx range.) 18:48:48 stassats`: I was using the repl and just typed in "(code-char ". But I also hacked slime to allow slime-autodoc because I stole eldoc from emacs, which actually works with xemacs. 18:48:58 LiamH: I might just start there, just to learn more about the foreign arrays 18:49:12 rtoym: i see, i have autodoc disabled there 18:49:33 stassats`: Could be an eldoc issue. I'll disable that and test some more when I get back. 18:49:36 nyef: AMD's OpenCL requires functionality that arrived in Radeon 4xxx 18:49:45 And, of course, I can't -upgrade- this card, because it's got an ADC port on it... 18:50:42 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 18:51:58 LiamH: Something else you might or might not be interested in: standard polynomials. 18:52:28 LiamH: GSL handles polynomials by storing the coefficients in a list, and then evaluating the polynomials like that. 18:52:50 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 18:53:40 LiamH: I found that with, say, Laguerre polynomials, numerical error is overwhelming around order 30. So basically, I made a different set of functions, which at least seem ok to order 100 or so. 18:53:53 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:54:02 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-152-199.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:15 jmbr [~jmbr@188.127.173.244] has joined #lisp 18:54:19 Sikander: how did you do that? 18:54:37 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082BD30.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:16 LiamH: Really simple. I just define a set, say, laguerre, as a recursive function that immediately evaluates it at the given point. This is fast _and_ accurate. 18:55:45 Sikander: so what do mean by "standard polynomials"? 18:56:20 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B32F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:56:21 LiamH: known, orthogonal sets, like Hermite, Laguerre, Bessel, ... 18:57:04 ah, I see. Maybe it would be good to suggest this to GSL? 18:57:13 LiamH: Of course, Bessel is done properly in GSL 18:58:29 LiamH: Well, they apparently do have that, and implemented (somewhat, I think) in the same way, but I always found that numerical error was greater there. I'm still planning to look in the source and see what the difference is between their implementations and mine 18:58:47 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:25 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:20 LiamH: Plus, I think they're missing zernike polynomials (and undoubtedly many others) 19:00:48 Sikander: I'll confess I've never heard of zernike polynomials. 19:01:08 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-127-165.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:01:53 LiamH: They are common in optics (aberrations etc.) 19:02:02 I heard someone opine today that CL has nothing to compare with numpy or scipy. It made me a little curious, but I don't know anything about numpy or scipy, or what CL might or might not have to compare with them. 19:02:53 Xach: Well, I know both numpy and scipy, and I can tell you that there indeed is nothing yet. GSLL and GSD are getting there, though 19:03:01 Xach: to a certain extent, that's due to a less pressing need, but it's true that there's no one all-encompassing library that exposes foreign code through a consistent interface. 19:04:37 Also, there's no matplotlib either. I still have a grand plan to revive SciGraph, though... 19:04:55 (or is is Scigraph, don't know what the proper casing is) 19:05:16 Sikander: with a TikZ/PGF backend for McCLIM, right? 19:05:24 LiamH: Damn right! 19:05:32 LiamH: What else?! 19:06:00 Sikander: nothing right now, but I'll let you know if something comes up :-) 19:06:04 I'm still figuring out some things regarding how McCLIM works, though 19:06:42 LiamH: I do have the font rotation problem in McCLIM almost worked out. It works in CLX, just not very well in McCLIM. 19:07:16 LiamH: So at least when plotting to screen, we can have proper y axis labels 19:07:26 Sikander: Oh, good. 19:07:47 Oh, just plot to a pixmap and rotate. 19:07:52 Sikander: there's this javascript plotting library... I was thinking it might be cute to wrap it, and output images via qt/webkit. 19:08:03 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:08:04 And I have started a TikZ backend, but it's not even close to being good 19:08:26 nyef: If the X server can do it, it should just do it, dammit! 19:09:07 pkhuong_: What is it called? 19:10:01 Sikander: protovis, 19:10:37 xinming_ [~hyy@122.238.74.213] has joined #lisp 19:11:30 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.3.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11:53 pkhuong_: So, can we just use it together with cl-javascript? 19:12:05 -!- ohih0wru [~andrei@78.84.161.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:38 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:12:41 I don't think cl-javascript fakes a DOM, nor do I believe we should try to implement that. 19:13:31 I was more thinking of something with execution of the final JS outside lisp, like functional postscript. 19:13:32 -!- vpalle_ [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:13:38 Of all the plotting libraries I've looked at, TikZ/PGF/pgfplots comes closest to having enough flexibility, while still having good high-level abstraction, to do what I want. Unfortunately, TeX as a programming language leaves something to be desired. 19:14:23 pkhuong_: Ah, ok. It has nice output, though 19:14:27 LiamH: I agree 19:14:31 LiamH: what kind of plot do you need? 19:15:06 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:09 LiamH: I had some success with ploticus for some stuff 19:15:46 Sikander: it has nice output, and I dare hope that SVG -> PDF works with vectorial representations 19:15:52 -!- mephist__ [~mephisto@190.213.238.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:52 antifuchs: lots of different kinds, really. I really mean things beyond "plotting" such as drawing ellipses for orbits and marking quantities on them. 19:16:12 ok, ploticus is a decent tool, then 19:16:13 LiamH: pgfplots output isn't very nice, though. I think gnuplot output looks better 19:16:39 Sikander: really? I think pgfplots has really nice output. 19:16:42 can output svg, iirc. 19:17:01 Of course the big drawback is that the PGF family is not 3D 19:17:03 LiamH: I have a set of scripts that plots up my data in a nicer way. 19:17:21 LiamH: You can "fake" 3d in the newer PGFs, right? 19:17:51 Sikander: yeah, I've done it, but it's no fun. 19:18:15 and there's "sketch" which is interesting but kind of limited in capability 19:18:19 I just want to have a CLIM interface to TikZ, so I can see what the plot looks like, and then write it to a file 19:18:30 Yeah, I played with sketch a bit. 19:19:57 Theoretically, it should be possible have an engine that breaks up geometries using the painter's algorithm, and composes it such that it has a 3d look, without user intervention, no? 19:20:44 Anyone know of an equivalent to format ~R in elisp? 19:21:05 There's probably a roman-numerals package in there somewhere. 19:21:10 *gigamonkey* also asks in #emacs. 19:21:10 Sikander: not sure what "painter's algorithm" is, but I guess so. I wouldn't want to write that in TeX though. 19:21:28 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:21:32 LiamH: No, lisp! And have it work on clim geometries 19:21:54 Isn't "painter's algorithm" basically by inverse Z order (back to front)? 19:22:14 LiamH: Ok, so I'm crazy, I know. I wanted to implement this as well. The example of what I want, but with clim, is this: 19:22:25 LiamH: http://geant4.kek.jp/~tanaka/DAWN/G4PRIM_FORMAT_24/ 19:22:30 nyef: yes 19:23:04 LiamH: It's pretty cool. It checks intersections with opengl, and breaks up the geometry, and then draws it in e.g. postscript 19:23:17 *Fare* notices that the downside of large uptimes is risking to forget the passphrase for the disk lock 19:24:07 If that were possible, but on clim geometries, then you could have a 3D vectorized drawing 19:24:46 Sikander: I read the first sentence of the intro to that document, and all I understood was "This document explains". 19:24:48 and write it to a file using the tikz backend (dammit, too many plans, too little time) 19:24:59 Fare: Write the password down somewhere, then? :-D 19:25:29 btw, can anyone review my and rpg's asdf2 paper before we submit it next monday? 19:25:48 LiamH: For an example, see http://geant4.kek.jp/~tanaka 19:26:13 dlowe1 [~dlowe@c-98-216-106-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:24 http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/ilc2010draft.pdf 19:26:30 Sikander: so it's a 3D graphic primitive library? 19:26:47 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-106-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:27:03 Fare, I'm setting up a VM farm for desire buildbot atm, and I'm thinking about the policy of choosing where to get implementations from. 19:27:06 LiamH: Well, not really. It's more of a 3D renderer. And it can render to postscript 19:27:26 (vectorized) 19:27:32 Can it render to SVG? 19:27:34 nice 19:27:44 Don't think so, no 19:27:58 Postscript is a bit limiting, isn't it? 19:28:00 Fare, I'm leaning towards getting lisps from usual distribution channels -- if Lisp is ever to gain acceptance, we need to play together with them. 19:28:02 LiamH: Maybe there's a newer Dawn program that can. 19:28:10 LiamH: Geant is really old 19:28:24 Sikander: yeah, I noticed the dates 19:28:39 Fare, oh, that was ambiguous, I meant getting lisps as packaged by distributions, when possible. 19:29:27 LiamH: Cool thing with dawn is that it can do cut-views as well. Without changing anything in the description of your geometry. Still in vectorized postscript. 19:29:52 Fare, this is opposed to the common sense of #lisp, which says "get sbcl from sourceforge" -- it just puts the burden on the users. 19:29:54 Sikander: and the fact that they are using blink tags on their web page (didn't that go out in about 1995?) 19:30:03 deepfire, like, using debian's sbcl, etc? 19:30:05 "if Lisp is ever to gain acceptance" .... i accepted lisp a long time ago 19:30:12 Fare, yes 19:30:18 LiamH: Really? blink was awesome! 19:30:24 *Sikander* forgot sarcasm tags 19:30:52 It was netscape's greatest contribution to humanity 19:31:07 drewc: but you are a smug lisp weenie 19:31:12 In print, vectorized 3D looks much more stylish than a bitmapped rendering 19:31:16 Fare, currently I have fedora13/amd64, ubuntu/amd64, mandriva/i386, win7/amd64, win7/i386 and struggling with osx/amd64, btw. 19:31:17 LiamH: Ha, indeed! 19:31:32 stassats`: and proud! 19:31:36 LiamH: Anyway, it's already 9.30 and I haven't had dinner yet. 19:31:38 so am i 19:31:59 OSX doesn't seem to very much like being virtualised. 19:32:18 See you later, people 19:32:29 Fare, anyway, what do you think of this conscious choice of policy? 19:32:37 vpalle [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has joined #lisp 19:32:53 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-114-150.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:59 -!- Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Time to eat...] 19:35:33 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:35:37 -!- tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:36:02 tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:28 stassats`: Oh, wait. In the particular instance of xemacs, slime-autodoc is not loaded. 19:38:00 definitely a conscious policy 19:38:04 francogrex [~user@109.130.137.216] has joined #lisp 19:38:10 jobs is a control freak 19:38:29 he wants to be the master always, the slave never. 19:38:39 I mean the choice of getting lisps via distributions.. :-) 19:38:45 os x as an emulated slave would mean anyone could copy it easily. 19:38:49 rtoym: that seems to work for me, let me test it with CMUCL 19:39:13 there are kits that pop up once in a while to defeat osx's latest anti-virtualization tricks. 19:39:23 I'm not up to date in the race. 19:39:39 As for virtualised OSX, the jinni is out of the bottle -- the intertubes are flooded with blog posts of people "doing it".. 19:39:45 *Fare* remembers the bad old days of protection cracking for apple ][ floppies. 19:39:53 rtoym: yes, typing "(code-char " works fine, i get the arglist displayed 19:39:58 Xach: Maxima has a fair number of numerical algorithms implemented. Most are written in Lisp, especially the bigfloat versions, but many are done using Fortran via f2cl. 19:40:02 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.58.45] has joined #lisp 19:40:21 deepfire, as long as it's complex enough for the casual guy not to do it and the professional to be sued, I suppose apple is happy. 19:40:23 CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 19:40:41 Fare, sounds about right.. 19:40:55 stassats`: Kind of weird. slime-autodoc isn't supposed to be loaded, but I get the arglist for read and write displayed, but not for code-char and some others. 19:41:34 Fare: OS X Server supports virtualisation 19:41:38 rtoym: without autodoc, arglists are displayed after hitting #\Space 19:42:19 blitz_` [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 19:42:29 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:42:35 Oh, that's why. But code-char doesn't. Weird. 19:43:53 Oh, slime-fancy loads slime-autodoc, so it is enabled. 19:47:06 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:12 -!- drewc [~user@S01060014bff6e985.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:47:47 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@83.240.225.146] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 19:49:36 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@sf-ogame.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:50:17 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:36 s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 19:51:40 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@188.127.173.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:52:14 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:54:47 stassats`: Another issue I run into: slime-search-property-change errors out because previous-single-char-property-change returns NIL. 19:55:06 i've already fixed that 19:55:23 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:35 Really? That was quick. Is it in CVS now? 19:55:46 yes 19:56:02 *rtoym* goes to update slime.... 19:57:45 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:59:41 mephist__ [~mephisto@190.213.238.9] has joined #lisp 20:01:02 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 20:01:40 Yep, that fixes that. 20:01:45 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:03 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:02:55 autodoc doesn't seem to work quite right though. Some CL functions get an arglist displayed, but some don't. 20:03:08 *rtoym* blames xemacs 20:03:53 Look into *slime-events* if an rpc is fired 20:04:37 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:04:44 That has to be enabled right? I can't remember how to do that. 20:05:11 nope it's always there 20:05:39 Not for me. 20:05:58 That, sir, sounds rather strange 20:07:47 I did do (slime-events-buffer) which created one. But it's empty, no matter what I do. 20:08:46 I'll blame that on xemacs too. 20:10:32 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:10:59 Are you using autodoc? in that case try to trace swank:autodoc 20:11:05 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:10 I just find out a way to solve the symbol clash in the iterate macro: (iter (for i from 0 to 1) (print (count 3 (list 1 2 3 4 3 3 4 3 5 5)))) gives an error 20:13:36 however this works: (iter (for i from 0 to 1) (print (funcall #'count 3 (list 1 2 3 4 3 3 4 3 5 5)))) 20:14:12 how annoying 20:15:19 well maybe annoying but many times one needs to count occurences while iterating 20:15:43 i have slime-events on XEmacs 20:16:03 tcr: That produces something. 20:16:42 rtoym: check its return value when autodoc does not seem to work; do see a function call? does it return value look like an arglist, or is it nil? 20:16:50 Typing "(sin" calls swank:autodoc which returns :not-available. 20:17:05 or rather :not-available rather than nil 20:17:15 perhaps it got indulgence 20:17:20 rtoym: the problem then may be most likely in cmucl's swank backend 20:17:28 rtoym: now trace swank-backend:arglist 20:18:46 tcr: Ok. "(write" does something with swank-backend:arglist. But "(sin" does nothing. 20:18:59 nothing with swank-backend:arglist. 20:19:35 *rtoym* still wonders why he doesn't have *slime-events*. Maybe it's been disabled somewhere long ago? 20:19:53 rtoym: you mean you don't see a call to swank-backend:arglist for sin? 20:20:00 or that it returns :not-availble? 20:20:14 rtoym: is slime-log-events set to t? 20:20:17 Correct. Just the call to swank:autodoc that returns :not-available. 20:20:35 stassats`: No. 20:20:43 here's your problem 20:21:11 -!- blitz_` [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:06 rtoym: can you show paste the traced function call with (sin please 20:22:09 tcr: Well, "(cos" calls swank:autodoc with the arg "os". 20:22:18 alright there we go 20:22:24 But "(read" shows "read". 20:22:35 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:22:49 that is just weird, and the code responsible for that is plain evil :-) 20:22:59 So what makes them different? cmucl stream bug? 20:23:59 *slime-events* is now logging stuff. 20:24:12 well if it's (swank:autodoc '("os" )) in case of (cos | in the emacs buffer, then the emacs side is to blame 20:25:03 (cos |, then do M-: (slime-parse-form-upto-point) 20:25:11 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:25:49 It returns 20:26:09 ("os" "" swank::%cursor-marker%) 20:27:06 if you go into contrib/slime-parse.el, in that very function 20:27:53 my suspicion is that the call to slime-parse-form-until starts off from the wrong position 20:28:39 jmbr [~jmbr@188.127.191.213] has joined #lisp 20:29:26 which means that the two forms in (ignore-errors) do not get as at the "c" but the "o" 20:29:37 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.58.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:25 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 20:31:39 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:52 Can you check that? 20:32:22 tcr: I'm looking at it. 20:32:54 rtoym: http://paste.lisp.org/display/114203 20:33:32 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-d932f420.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:34:03 In this case insert (tcr:debugmsg "%s" (buffer-substring (point) (+ (point) 10))) after the second (ignore-errors..) 20:34:49 C-M-x, do to trigger the thing, then look in *TCR* 20:39:02 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-40-192.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:39:43 lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:12 -!- beach`` is now known as beach 20:41:06 Ok. Had to change (+ (point) 10) to (min (point-max) (+ (point) 10)). But it does print out "cos" now. 20:41:18 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-80-147.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:42:35 how you mean? 20:42:44 oh 20:42:56 the *TCR* buffer contains "cos"? 20:43:03 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Restarting Emacs...] 20:43:23 in that case M-x trace-function slime-parse-form-until 20:44:06 Yes, the *tcr* buffer has "cos". (I also had it print out (point)) 20:45:08 *trace-output* says limit=2228 form-suffix=(swank::%cursor-mark%) 20:45:25 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:45:29 return value? 20:45:37 Hmm. eldoc error wrong-type-argument consp nil. 20:46:39 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-93166.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:49:59 No return value. 20:50:35 that is not plausible :-) 20:50:54 I think something is throwing an error. 20:52:16 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:53:30 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.137.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:24 tcr: In parse-form-until. after the while loop, sexp is ((os)). 20:54:51 -!- davazp [~user@205.Red-88-25-184.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:58 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441480.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:56:08 -!- vpalle [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:57:12 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:57:15 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:58:02 tcr: slime-forward-cruft seems to have moved point by one. 21:00:30 Yep. Before (slime-forward-cruft), point is 2253, but after, it is 2254. 21:00:51 (2253 is where "c" is.) 21:01:23 Yes nice debugging 21:01:29 sounds like you're close 21:01:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.15.179] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:01:42 davazp [~user@205.Red-88-25-184.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:53 I'd suspect the skip-chars-forward in slime-forward-cruft 21:01:53 -!- davazp [~user@205.Red-88-25-184.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:07 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:20 Yeah, I'm looking at that now. 21:02:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:03:06 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:03:10 Yep. It moves point by one. 21:03:14 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:43 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:03:51 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:04 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-112-14.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:11 Heh. But it returns 0. 21:05:04 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 21:05:47 there we go :-) 21:06:44 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:07:31 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:21 Oh, wait. In the *scratch* buffer, if I do skip-chars-forward, it does move point by one and returns 1. 21:11:55 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:13:15 tcr: What does "[:space:]" mean? It might be that xemacs doesn't understand that. 21:15:17 rtoym: named character class for whitespace. "\s", I think. 21:16:17 Thanks. If I replace "[:space:]" with "[\\s]", point doesn't move. 21:16:57 Yay! slime prints out the arglist for cos now. 21:17:17 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:19:32 minion: memo for tcr: Replacing "[:space:]" with "[\\s]" makes slime arglist work for cos, and other symbols that weren't working before. 21:19:32 Remembered. I'll tell tcr when he/she/it next speaks. 21:19:48 minion: forget my memos 21:19:48 OK, I threw it out. 21:20:19 rtoym: Post to the mailing list, I'm not going to commit the change, but surely either helmut or stas will 21:20:31 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:20:34 Ok. 21:20:39 luis: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cffi/+bug/622285  I think that one can be closed :-) 21:22:53 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 21:23:40 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:22 -!- moah [~gnu@188.109.167.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29:54 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-193-42.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:01 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:36:09 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:21 tcr: Message sent. 21:37:45 cool! 21:38:27 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:36 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:36 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:38 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:45:52 Thanks a lot for your help in debugging this. Now slime works like it used to. And better too. 21:46:18 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@188.127.191.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46:41 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 21:47:57 Hey, vc-annotate says someone named trittwei was the one who changed slime-forward-cruft to use [:space:]. :-) 21:50:57 timor [~timor@port-92-195-193-42.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:50:58 -!- mephist__ [~mephisto@190.213.238.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:01 huh, that's not even funny, \\s doesn't work on GNU Emacs 21:52:39 emacs' regexp syntax is the worst I've ever used 21:52:40 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:52:52 oh, skip-chars-forward has special syntax 21:53:42 rtoym: can you test with "\s"? 21:53:45 foom: How is it different? 21:54:25 stassats`: You mean "[\s]"? 21:54:37 rtoym: no, i meant literally 21:55:02 Just "\s" as the arg for skip-chars-forward? 21:55:09 that's right 21:55:52 That seems not to work. 21:57:25 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:58:01 tcr: everything that's supported needs an extra \, and many things that work in other regex implementations don't work. 21:58:07 oh well, if it's not a xemacs bug, it has to be (if (featurep 'xemacs 21:58:13 ... 21:58:35 "\\s" doesn't work either. Or rather, "(sin" with point on the s moves point by one. 21:58:48 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:58:52 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:58:54 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A6356.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:13 rtoym: that doesn't seem to correspond to what C-h f skip-chars-forward says, at least regarding [] 21:59:58 Yeah, you're right. Let me try again. 22:01:15 "\s" and "\\s" don't work. s-c-f moves by one. 22:01:37 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 22:02:03 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:02:44 This might be a bug in xemacs. I'll have to ask on the mailing list. 22:03:19 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04:11 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:05:49 just testing any combination of \\s with [] doesn't seem to work for me on XEmacs 22:06:00 not with slime, directly 22:06:05 ldunn [~user@d110-32-131-191.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:07:57 what is the idiom of message passing in lisp ? 22:07:58 here's the test-case (with-temp-buffer (insert " abc") (goto-char (point-min)) (skip-chars-forward "\s")) 22:08:16 or ipc ? 22:08:22 threads ? 22:08:58 stassats`: Oh, maybe it should be "\s-", according to the xemacs regex info section. 22:09:48 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:01 when everything fails, use bruteforce. " \t\n" works 22:10:48 Heh. 22:11:21 on both 22:11:36 I think that was not enough 22:11:47 look at the changeset that deleted slime-forward-blanks 22:12:01 for some reason I scratched that 22:12:41 afair, [:space:] also depends on the syntax table 22:14:56 i see no reason for " \t\n" not to work 22:15:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:21:32 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:22:47 and what's the point of using inline? it seems to be an alias for progn 22:23:11 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441480.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:26:43 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-169-211.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:27:09 Perhaps for xemacs, it should be (skip-syntax-forward "-"). That seems to work. 22:29:23 -!- smolyn [~smolyn@S0106002500fe5c20.vc.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 22:30:26 i don't want to fiddle with it anymore, \t\n does the job, i've just committed it 22:30:35 Ok. 22:30:42 That works for me. 22:31:10 and since slime-autodoc works on xemacs, i'll remove (:gnu-emacs-only t), any other changes you had to do? 22:31:41 brown [~user@nat/google/x-hbtkdxgricsfmqrw] has joined #lisp 22:31:52 -!- brown is now known as reb 22:32:07 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:32:42 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:46 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 22:36:32 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AD02.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:34 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 22:38:13 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:55 stassats: it's for the compiler 22:42:21 this stuff is called a lot and function calls are expensive 22:46:01 the name is suggestive, but "an alias for progn" is confusing 22:46:14 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 22:46:45 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-hbtkdxgricsfmqrw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:57 brown [~user@nat/google/x-gphupemfsrydkpxn] has joined #lisp 22:47:07 -!- brown is now known as reb 22:48:23 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:49:15 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 22:51:54 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:26 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:35 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 22:59:14 stassats`: Not that I can remember. But the version of eldoc that currently ships with xemacs is majorly broken for slime autodoc. I think that's why Helmut disabled that. 23:04:05 -!- super__ is now known as super_ 23:04:41 -!- super_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:05:02 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:07:17 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-124-169.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:50 may have been me who disabled it 23:15:45 -!- tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:17:46 davazp [~user@205.Red-88-25-184.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:36 mephist__ [~mephisto@186.45.17.204] has joined #lisp 23:20:20 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-112-14.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:21:17 -!- ldunn [~user@d110-32-131-191.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:49 ldunn [~user@d110-32-131-191.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:31:42 huangho [~vitor@189-30-1-110.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:33:41 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 23:37:59 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:40:37 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:48 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:44:44 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:40 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.58.45] has joined #lisp 23:48:32 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-152-245-56.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:49:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:58:24 -!- ldunn [~user@d110-32-131-191.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:47 ldunn [~user@d110-32-131-191.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp