00:02:20 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:03:44 -!- gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:04:45 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-61-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:04:48 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-61-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:07:13 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-232-38.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:07:28 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-232-38.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:07:34 -!- rfg [~rfg@host81-102-109-24.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 00:11:41 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-98-106.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:13:03 sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has joined #lisp 00:13:42 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:13:53 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 00:17:55 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 00:18:50 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:18:59 emma [~em@user-0ccemf4.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 00:19:03 -!- emma [~em@user-0ccemf4.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:19:04 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 00:19:18 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@195-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:23:45 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:24:04 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:17 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-38-210.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 00:28:59 Jeddeb [~Jeddeb@modemcable109.239-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:29:28 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:31:27 aceluck [~aceluck@175.144.254.120] has joined #lisp 00:32:09 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:13 hi, how can i solve ; The function ucw.rerl.actions.debug is undefined. when (require 'ucw) 00:34:58 emma [~em@user-0ccemf4.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 00:34:58 -!- emma [~em@user-0ccemf4.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:34:58 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 00:39:35 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:41:26 -!- psilord2 [~psilord@76.201.144.111] has left #lisp 00:45:21 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 00:47:50 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.6] has joined #lisp 00:51:12 you try grepping the function? 00:51:32 no 00:51:47 you are using uncommon web? 00:51:57 i tryin to test it 00:52:31 trying but im new in lisp too 00:53:48 i've never really used it, but the first thing to check is that that function exists in whatever you downloaded 00:54:10 and then go through making sure all of the dependencies are good and loaded 00:54:21 how did you install it? 00:55:13 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 01:05:55 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:04 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:28 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 01:09:40 The_Jon_Smith: sorry thanks 01:10:14 i install it with clcuild, and try with darcs too 01:11:59 but if a put *BREAK-SIGNAL-ERRORS* t 01:12:03 i get 01:12:04 failed to find the truename of /opt/clbuild/source/closer-mop/closer-mop-packages.fasl: 01:19:19 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20:16 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:07 -!- yrgd [~yrgd@c-98-235-44-106.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:00 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:25:29 -!- ben_m [~ben@chello084113058207.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: good night] 01:27:34 it's funny but the space in which I find typos acceptable seems to be vanishing 01:27:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:28:50 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D1E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:29:53 yrgd [~yrgd@c-98-235-44-106.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:13 salva: i'd check that directory to see if you have closer-mop installed 01:30:19 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008244.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:30:37 and if not grab closer mop and install it 01:30:42 ok thanks 01:30:46 uncommon-web has a lot of dependencies 01:31:02 im some lost 01:31:11 http://common-lisp.net/project/ucw/repos/ucw-core/doc/getting-started.txt 01:31:18 if you look here 01:31:28 under dependencies 01:31:42 make sure you have all of those 01:32:36 im in x86-64 could this be a problem? 01:33:22 i mean, possibly, but most likely it is just a missing dependency 01:33:40 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: irl ragequit] 01:34:10 closer mop is here, for example http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/downloads.html 01:35:08 better without clbuild? 01:35:29 what better? 01:35:46 install the libraries 01:35:46 i really don't know 01:36:03 if you can get them all with CL build, that is probably easy 01:36:25 i'm not sure it will get you the versions that you need 01:36:37 but you can try it and try the hard way later 01:36:56 ok 01:38:13 Can slime bring me to the point in the code where the first warning/error is when i'm requiring something from the repl? 01:39:58 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 01:41:16 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has joined #lisp 01:41:34 Monix [Monix@CPE00e0b8c80cf6-CM00407b85e988.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:41:51 -!- Monix [Monix@CPE00e0b8c80cf6-CM00407b85e988.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 01:43:24 dcooper8 [~dj@c-69-136-155-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:33 Use quicklisp! 01:44:05 Hi, how do I get just the directory from *source-pathname* 01:44:16 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:21 derrida: Slime can show the source of the error, but not sure what you mean requiring something. 01:44:36 I was doing (make-pathname :directory (pathname-directory *source-pathname*) :device (pathname-device *source-pathname*)) 01:44:42 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:44:46 but that seems too verbose 01:44:46 rtoym: sorry, eg. (require 'swank) :) 01:45:19 derrida: If you don't have swank loaded, I don't think slime is going to help you. :-) 01:45:26 Oh and by the way @Xach, where was that project which was implementing some git functionality in CL? 01:45:37 dcooper8: Looks about right, I think. 01:45:37 rtoym: just an example of what i meant by requiring 01:45:56 if i'm at the slime repl ... :P 01:45:57 -!- dcooper8 [~dj@c-69-136-155-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:45:57 -!- rtra_ [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:46:16 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 01:46:38 dcooper8: You mean glitter? http://github.com/froydnj/glitter 01:47:44 dcooper8 [~dj@c-69-136-155-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:06 rtoym: my problem is that i find mentally parsing errors very difficult for some reason and usually wind up needing to look at the compilation output to see which function caused a problem, i like the output i get when C-c C-k and would prefer something like that to accompany the debugger message 01:48:59 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:50:42 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:50:48 I agree that slime backtraces are unwieldly. Sometimes I must launch the implementation in a shell to find where the problem is. 01:50:52 mentally parsing sldb output that is 01:51:44 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:02 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:52:31 hehe it's something i've neglected dealing with for a long time 01:54:50 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:55:01 derrida: Sorry, I don't really know how to get slime to help with that. Other than looking at the output and then C-c C-k the file that failed. 01:55:24 *rtoym* kind of likes slime backtraces; they look like cmucl backtraces. 01:56:10 i put in prints when i don't know what function is failing 01:56:21 in a compile-file 01:58:10 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:00:57 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 02:06:00 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:07:07 -!- rpg [~rpg@vbn.0067207.lodgenet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:16 gko [~gko@111.83.127.108] has joined #lisp 02:11:38 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:01 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:13:27 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-112-21.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:02 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 02:28:38 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.199.55] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:30:38 -!- srolls [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:27 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:35:27 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:43:06 -!- upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:46:34 moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 02:46:50 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:46:50 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.116.154] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:47:41 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:09 -!- moocow is now known as holycow 02:51:33 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 02:52:18 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:56:07 _sid_ [~Sid_H@192.163.20.231] has joined #lisp 02:56:14 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.78.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:57:01 moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 02:57:08 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:57:51 lemoinem [~swoog@38-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:29 pizdets [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:34 -!- pizdets [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:58:59 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:01:09 -!- Tordek [tordek@free.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:04:05 Tordek [tordek@free.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 03:04:08 -!- Tordek [tordek@free.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Client Quit] 03:04:29 Tordek [tordek@free.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 03:06:28 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 03:07:41 -!- moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:08:18 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:08:39 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11:02 hohoho [~hohoho@bm210-148-126-104.bmobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:12:42 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:14:31 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:48 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:15:51 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 03:16:45 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:32 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:21:25 -!- Jubb [~ghost@24-151-75-175.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:38 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008244.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:21:49 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:23:09 Jubb [~ghost@24-151-75-175.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:26:51 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 03:38:06 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:38:55 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:40:13 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:42:32 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 03:43:43 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:24 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:48:03 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 03:49:39 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rvffjltlqhwhejie] has joined #lisp 03:53:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:54:25 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 03:55:33 astoon_ [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 03:55:54 -!- astoon_ [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Client Quit] 04:03:53 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 04:04:15 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:04:55 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-10-101.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:20 phadthai [mmondor@66.11.161.166] has joined #lisp 04:08:24 mrv [~eval@150.101.97.171] has joined #lisp 04:08:33 -!- mrv [~eval@150.101.97.171] has left #lisp 04:13:50 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:14:14 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:52 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 04:18:11 -!- Jeddeb [~Jeddeb@modemcable109.239-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:18:54 Good morning everyone! 04:22:05 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:54 fusss [~chatzilla@cpe-184-59-202-37.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:28:25 -!- rme [rme@clozure-76DCBA1F.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:28:25 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-116-106.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:35:01 -!- sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:28 KE7TMA [~ketma@c-76-27-197-98.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:37 Hi 04:37:08 What is a good analog to a lisp machine these days? 04:37:26 Hello KE7TMA. 04:37:59 I am teaching myself lisp, and would love to have a nice environment 04:38:04 Ie, not emacs 04:38:05 Quite some time ago, it because uninteresting to make specialized hardware for Lisp. Now, it runs quite well on stock hardware. 04:38:38 What platform? 04:38:39 Right, but is there anything out there that provides a similarly nice environment? 04:38:40 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:38:46 Os x 04:39:02 minion: tell KE7TMA About LispWorks 04:39:02 KE7TMA: please see LispWorks: LispWorks is a non-free Common Lisp implementation. http://www.cliki.net/LispWorks 04:39:12 Nice 04:39:30 Thank you 04:39:38 No problem. 04:41:46 Looks like there is a free as in beer personal edition which is only slightly crippled 04:41:56 Certainly not too crippled for my puttering around 04:42:26 What kind of definition of nice is "not Emacs"??! ;) 04:43:06 I could see the appeal of emacs 04:43:30 If i had been born 20 years earlier and reared at MIT's AI lab 04:44:29 franki^: Something tells me it is not worth going there. 04:45:23 beach: Yes, but I just couldn't resist at least one comment. :) 04:45:36 Maybe i will see the light as i learn lisp 04:46:13 But for now i leave it to the experts 04:47:44 -!- KE7TMA [~ketma@c-76-27-197-98.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:50:18 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:51:56 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 04:53:57 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:02:23 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:08:52 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@bm210-148-126-104.bmobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:32 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 05:17:49 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:18:12 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-112-21.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:31:11 ilowry [~user@188.162.102.66] has joined #lisp 05:31:23 #quicklisp 05:31:45 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-61-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:31:50 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-61-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:33:02 Does it matter if (with-gensyms (x) ...) expands into (let ((x (gensym))) ...) rather than (let ((x '#:sym123)) ...) ? 05:36:33 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:37:14 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 05:37:45 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:38:24 gigamonkey: I can't see why it would. The first version is what you would typically write manually. 05:38:56 Right. 05:39:22 But it sort of seems, as you say, like it doesn't matter. But I'm tired so I may not be thinking straight. 05:39:35 But you've just had your morning coffee so I trust you. ;-) 05:39:55 gigamonkey: I am not quite awake yet, so I am not thinking straight either :) 05:40:46 Damn. Is there anyone here from somewhere it's the middle of the day?! 05:41:19 Zhivago perhaps? 05:41:54 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 05:41:55 both versions are fine 05:42:03 (very am, disturbed night, no coffee yet) 05:42:07 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:43:06 argiopeweb [~elliot@64-193-4-189.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:45 I am... quarter to two in the afternoon here in Kuala Lumpur 05:46:09 bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-193-214.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:17 minion: memo for pmd: indeed you are right. See http://paste.lisp.org/display/114077#3 for my most compressed/obfuscated version. 05:47:17 Remembered. I'll tell pmd when he/she/it next speaks. 05:49:00 emma [~em@user-0ccemf4.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 05:49:03 -!- emma [~em@user-0ccemf4.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:49:03 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 05:49:53 ldunn [~user@d110-32-133-245.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:53:27 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-116-43.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:54:28 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-10-101.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:54:43 Heh. I'm proud of/apalled by my new definition of once-only here: http://github.com/gigamonkey/macro-utilities/blob/master/macro-utilities.lisp 05:55:40 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:56:32 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@64-193-4-189.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:56:44 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 06:00:40 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:00:59 beach: though that's funny that if you'd write it by hand you'd write (let ((x (gensym))) ...) 06:01:07 Why not write (let ((x #:x)) ...) 06:02:06 gigamonkey: Wouldn't that be a problem with nesting? 06:03:29 Well, once you're using an uninterned symbol, you've pretty much given up on referring to it again. 06:03:47 Or maybe I don't understand what you're asking. 06:04:01 Right, and the x would be shadowed anyway, so maybe that works. 06:04:10 But again, I am not yet thinking straight. 06:05:18 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-120-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:06:33 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 06:06:33 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 06:08:59 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:10:43 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:11:51 (let ((x '#:x)) 06:12:04 Right. 06:12:20 The difference is that you would now get the same symbol every time you use the macro. 06:13:27 Right. 06:13:33 But does that matter? 06:13:59 So I was thinking there might be a problematic situation when you have nested uses of the macro, but I can't think of any right now. 06:14:12 I guess if the body of the macro contained another call to the macro. 06:14:20 Which is what you just said. 06:14:26 Yes, that's what I said. 06:16:23 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 06:17:00 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:18:56 Amadiro [~whoppix@1x-193-157-200-55.uio.no] has joined #lisp 06:20:39 good morning 06:25:25 morning. 06:25:38 Or, evening. Time for me to turn in. Goodnight, folks. 06:34:11 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 06:35:27 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-193-214.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 06:36:05 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.67.157.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:36:10 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.67.157.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 06:36:12 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:18 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:37:29 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:37:35 -!- sykopomp` [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:37:35 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:38:06 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 06:42:01 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:37 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:48:50 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:49:18 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:49:59 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:55:06 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 06:56:12 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:21 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:41 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:56 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva] 07:03:59 -!- ilowry [~user@188.162.102.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:26 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:04:33 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:05:34 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:06:36 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:08:42 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 07:14:16 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:15:40 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:16:25 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:17:13 hello lispers 07:17:30 What ho, kiuma. 07:19:40 Soulman [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:20:23 -!- rrice [~rrice@76.253.140.91] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:22:30 nha [~prefect@vpn-a-183-126.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 07:22:33 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:23:00 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-95-37.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:26:15 crink [~crink@unaffiliated/crink] has joined #lisp 07:26:23 hi 07:27:29 how to truncate floating-point to 3 digits? 0.123456789 -> 0.123 07:27:42 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: fud] 07:28:22 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:31:21 for what purpose? 07:31:44 optimization, just for curiosity 07:32:46 you can use a format statement if you want to print to a given decimal place 07:33:25 for optimization you could declare the type of float 07:34:45 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 07:34:54 otherwise you might be able to do some sort of bitwise operation if you know the floating point format 07:35:08 (coerce (/ (truncate (* 0.123456 1000)) 1000) 'float) 07:35:23 but I don't know if it's the lispy way ;P 07:35:35 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-129-99.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:40 yeah that is the way to do it numerically 07:35:49 i'm not sure i understand the point though 07:36:24 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:36:33 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:36:35 no format purpose, catch the number to record massive data 07:37:02 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:08 in banking systems some times it's necessry to work with truncated/then rounded amounts especially when dealing with monetary conversions 07:37:25 *sometime 07:37:35 that's interesting 07:37:52 it surpised me too 07:37:59 *surprised 07:38:10 i was thinking a faster way to do it would be to bitmask the IEEE floating point type 07:38:46 so then you are just figuring out which part of the mantissa you want and wiping the rest 07:38:48 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.233.185] has joined #lisp 07:39:26 doesn't depend from the os/cpu arch ? 07:39:29 here is other ppl's implementation of it 07:39:33 (defun float-limit-1 (n) (/ (ffloor (* n 1000)) 1000)) 07:39:44 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-95-37.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:39:44 (defun float-limit-2 (n) (declare (type single-float n)) (/ (ftruncate n 0.001) 1000.0)) 07:39:48 no idea 07:39:57 you are probably right 07:40:15 i just know ieee is standardized format 07:40:17 i didn't wrote it. 07:40:51 http://cafe.naver.com/ArticleRead.nhn?clubid=17282411&page=1&menuid=7&boardtype=L&articleid=552&referrerAllArticles=false 07:40:58 -!- crink [~crink@unaffiliated/crink] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:41:10 crink [~crink@unaffiliated/crink] has joined #lisp 07:41:50 Floating point for numeric amounts? Just Say No. 07:41:59 s/numeric/accounting 07:42:13 jcowan, I say no too 07:43:03 but surprisingly they are used for risk management signaling to central banks 07:44:42 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:47:42 thx 07:47:44 -!- nha [~prefect@vpn-a-183-126.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:48:47 -!- crink [~crink@unaffiliated/crink] has left #lisp 07:49:30 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:51:07 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:51:43 Well, in that case exactitude to the last dinar is perhaps not essential. 07:53:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:57:04 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:57:45 morning 07:58:31 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:59:04 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:04:58 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:06:12 hey nikodemus 08:06:55 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:13:17 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 08:13:41 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@1x-193-157-200-55.uio.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:25:30 xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has joined #lisp 08:27:45 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:28:32 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 08:29:01 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:30:37 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 08:31:15 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: TV] 08:32:06 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-44-237.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 08:33:15 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:34:14 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-75-223.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:34:47 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:36:14 DaDa` [~user@251-246.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:44:37 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442238.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:44:39 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-10-101.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:47 -!- prip [~foo@host70-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:45:16 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0B7E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:15 hollystyles [~chatzilla@mail.weblogik.biz] has joined #lisp 08:46:45 hdurer`` [~hdurer@lo4.cfw-a-gci.london.yahoo.com] has joined #lisp 08:47:51 -!- hdurer`` [~hdurer@lo4.cfw-a-gci.london.yahoo.com] has quit [Changing host] 08:47:51 hdurer`` [~hdurer@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has joined #lisp 08:48:01 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-134-38.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:49:46 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441480.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:51:18 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52:25 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:58 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-22-199-91.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:55 j4k0b [~j4k0b@1503024517.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:59:28 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoy@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 09:04:05 nha [~prefect@vpn-b-195-074.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:05:12 -!- xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:07:05 xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has joined #lisp 09:25:18 -!- mrSpec [spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:27:41 mrSpec [spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:29:24 -!- mrSpec [spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:29:48 mrSpec [spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:31:04 -!- ldunn [~user@d110-32-133-245.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:27 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:33:30 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:14 -!- j4k0b [~j4k0b@1503024517.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:35:57 -!- gko [~gko@111.83.127.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:42:30 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 09:42:36 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:48:28 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:48:44 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:48:49 prip [~foo@host6-123-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:50:25 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:54:34 Having a problem starting slime. When compiling swank-sbcl.lisp it raises a fatal error "Symbol PIPE not found in the SB-POSIX package." I have the windows SBCL package 1.0.29 I have been working backwards from 1.0.37 thinking something was just wrong with sbcl but now wondering if it's my set-up? 09:55:02 Googling the error and searching the slime-devel mailing list as found nothing so far :( 09:55:11 -!- nha [~prefect@vpn-b-195-074.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:56:09 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@82.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:58:23 hollystyles: sb-posix on windows is probably rather crippled 09:58:24 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-95-37.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:58:54 you should report it to slime-devel 09:59:10 or put it in here https://bugs.launchpad.net/slime 09:59:57 tfb [~tfb@92.41.79.53.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:00:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:02:32 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:07:11 nice is certainly emacs. 10:07:21 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:32 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:07:46 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:09:39 pjb: you have it backwards 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:44 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 10:12:04 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 10:12:28 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:13:30 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:15:26 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07d138.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:15 ok thanks 10:21:44 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D1E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:28 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:25:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:27:20 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.67.157.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 10:27:56 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.67.157.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 10:29:32 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:32:20 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.67.157.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:33:48 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-uwvyhjojremwleaa] has joined #lisp 10:35:37 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 10:37:24 meingbg [~meingbg@axsv070.gsnet.se] has joined #lisp 10:37:45 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:55 -!- meingbg [~meingbg@axsv070.gsnet.se] has quit [Client Quit] 10:38:03 -!- aceluck [~aceluck@175.144.254.120] has quit [Quit: aceluck] 10:39:29 meingbg [~meingbg@axsv070.gsnet.se] has joined #lisp 10:39:41 Amadiro [~whoppix@1x-193-157-201-31.uio.no] has joined #lisp 10:42:08 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 10:43:33 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:49:57 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:50:50 mgr_ [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 10:53:45 -!- mgr_ is now known as mgr 10:54:02 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757808.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:17 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.195.185] has joined #lisp 10:58:03 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-134-38.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:01:56 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@198-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 11:04:32 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:06:23 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:07:30 -!- Jubb [~ghost@24-151-75-175.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:16:10 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:19:16 froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 11:20:26 Xach: it goes bothways. If you got to "nice" in the dictionnary, you get a picture of emacs. 11:21:05 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 11:21:30 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:21:59 -!- _sid_ [~Sid_H@192.163.20.231] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]] 11:24:14 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.248] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:25:17 is there any reason why most people use ",@body", although ". ,body" or even ",.body" would suffice (i.e. body will become the last thing in that list)? 11:26:03 cultural convention 11:26:43 plus ,@ can be used also in the middle: `(1 2 ,@(list 3 4) 5 6) 11:27:50 also, ,@ is arguably easier to see and visually parse, esp. when you get into things like ',',@ 11:29:30 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:29:35 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:29:59 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:33:27 Has anyone here tried picolisp? 11:33:30 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 11:34:38 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:35:24 nikodemus: all true, but ,@ can slow down compilation somewhat, and getting used to either . ,body or ,.body is just as easy as spotting ,@body and probably better, because we know nothing comes after the body 11:36:00 i'm suggesting a cultural change :) 11:36:27 Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has joined #lisp 11:37:17 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:37:18 -!- DaDa` [~user@251-246.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:38:23 solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvpcd.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 11:38:53 "can slow compilation"? 11:39:01 what are you smoking? :) 11:39:19 from my experience, people that don't know macros and are not willing to learn macros shouldn't write them. i've seen quite a few examples where forms are not executed sequentially and the documentation doesn't state it, where forms are evaluated multiple times where they aren't supposed to be and again not documented, and worse, macros that are made by copy-pasting some repeated code, without gensyms and with ,@body at some points 11:39:20 inside if's and cond's 11:40:01 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 11:40:10 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:40:14 nikodemus: ,@ appends instead of consing like . , (i'd say...) 11:40:37 how can you guarantee that the stuff you put after ,. is not a literal? 11:40:45 pmd: well, read the spec and learn 11:40:55 but really, the clhs backquote documentation states that the implementation is free to use any combination of list, list*, append and nconc to achieve the same results 11:41:06 meingbg: yes 11:41:15 tcr: i don't understand 11:41:17 pmd: you're fighting against over 30 years of established practise here -- ,. and ., are signs of people coming from scheme or pre-ansi dialects 11:41:29 Has anyone here tried picolisp? [12:33] 11:41:29 *** hargettp 11:41:29 (~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net) has 11:41:29 quit: Quit: hargettp 11:41:32 *** Odin- (~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) has quit: Ping timeout: 258 11:41:35 seconds [12:34] 11:41:39 nikodemus: all true, but ,@ can slow down compilation 11:41:42 somewhat, and getting used to either . ,body or ,.body is just 11:41:45 as easy as spotting ,@body and probably better, because we 11:41:49 know nothing comes after the body [12:35] 11:41:50 i'm suggesting a cultural change :) 11:41:50 meingbg: please stop! 11:41:53 *** Stattrav (~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav) has joined channel 11:41:59 #lisp [12:36] 11:41:59 *** emma (~em@unaffiliated/emma) has quit: Ping timeout: 276 seconds 11:42:02 [12:37] 11:42:07 *** DaDa` (~user@251-246.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch) has quit: Ping 11:42:07 timeout: 240 seconds 11:42:11 *** solussd (~solussd@user-0cdvpcd.cable.mindspring.com) has joined 11:42:12 -!- meingbg [~meingbg@axsv070.gsnet.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:17 ok, so this is recursive irc logging? 11:42:21 ops? 11:42:28 i wonder if its some spammer :P 11:42:41 meingbg [~meingbg@axsv070.gsnet.se] has joined #lisp 11:42:44 it might be for all we know 11:42:54 sorry. 11:42:59 sorry. 11:43:02 it might be for all we know 11:43:05 *** #lisp modes: +cn 11:43:08 *** #lisp was created on Sunday 2003/08/03 10:30:32 PM 11:43:08 I blame erc. 11:43:10 -!- meingbg [~meingbg@axsv070.gsnet.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:25 ohh Zhivago take care of meinbg please :) 11:43:27 tcr: you're talking about dotted lists? 11:43:34 jmbr [~jmbr@82.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:43:36 but seriously, pmd, difference between consing and non-consing ,@ is noise. i'll buy you a pint if you can find a non-stupid example and an existing CL compiler where you can measure the difference in compile time 11:44:05 (and pretty much everyone uses LIST* for ,@ in tail position anyways) 11:44:35 meingbg [~meingbg@axsv070.gsnet.se] has joined #lisp 11:44:37 nikodemus: well, that's good to know, thanks 11:44:53 *meingbg* switched irc client 11:44:59 pmd: `(foo ,.(whatever) bar), you have to guarantee that whatever does not return something which shares with literal code 11:45:45 Ah, sorry. 11:45:48 tcr: true, i was only pointing at tail positions 11:45:55 I guess it's under control now, anyhow. 11:46:47 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:47:05 ashokgautham [~ashokgaut@203.199.213.3] has joined #lisp 11:48:17 I saw a really mindblowing oneliner for transposing (apply #'mapcar #'list ) 11:48:23 How does it actually work? 11:51:11 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:51:13 ashokgautham: that's a very neat trick that can be generally used when you have a list of lists but you want to iterate over each value of the inner lists all at the same time 11:51:25 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:51:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:52:37 carlocci [~nes@93.37.196.195] has joined #lisp 11:52:48 ashokgautham: you can do (mapcar (lambda (v1 v2 v3) ...) (first list-of-lists) (second list-of-lists) (third list-of-lists)) if you know the number of lists within list-of-lists 11:52:50 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:53:17 but (apply 'mapcar (lambda (&rest values) ...) list-of-lists) will work for any number of lists 11:53:53 transposing is quite the most simple example of this, just replace the lambda with 'list 11:54:12 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:14 So (apply #'mapcar #'somefun list-of-lists) will run somefun over first of all elems, second of all elems etc? 11:54:24 ashokgautham: that's right 11:54:30 pmd: Cool :) 11:55:20 Ok. Now I am kinda confused since I am learning Lisp chaotically. Doesn't apply take just 2 arguments, one being the function and the other a list? 11:55:54 i tend to think of this form of mapping as other-axis mapping, eg. if i have a list of rows and i want to iterate all columns 11:56:30 ashokgautham: the last argument to APPLY must be a list 11:56:36 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rvffjltlqhwhejie] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:56:41 jdz: Apply is a macro? 11:56:52 ashokgautham: no, it is a function 11:56:56 clhs: apply 11:56:57 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@1x-193-157-201-31.uio.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 11:57:04 clhs apply 11:57:06 ashokgautham: no. funcall calls a function with a known set of arguments, apply calls a function with an optional rest arguments list 11:58:04 pmd: Got it :) 11:58:30 So apply calls mapcar with (list list-of-lists)? 11:58:34 ashokgautham: well, the last argument to apply is not optional, it can just be the empty list to mean that there are no extra args 11:58:35 hlavaty: Do you still use picolisp? 11:59:33 meingbg: yes. better talk about it at #picolisp though 11:59:47 ashokgautham: if list-of-lists were a list of 3 lists, it would call (mapcar #'x list1 list2 list3) 12:00:38 (apply #'mapcar #'x list-of-lists) (-: 12:01:06 pmd: Now that gives me a very clear picture. Thanks a lot! 12:01:31 (note: if you are representing a non-sparse matrix as a bunch of lists, you are doing something wrong) 12:01:52 (it being a popular example in books doesn't make it sensible) 12:02:49 i agree, lists can be for many things, but they're not a good choice for all of them 12:02:51 -!- ans [~user@84.41.90.123] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:03:47 nikodemus: Well. I am learning lisp by myself for fun. This oneliner seemed too cool to skip. And yeah. I think I learnt a useful idiom there... (apply #'mapcar #'fun (l-o-l)) 12:04:59 ashokgautham: what resources are you using to learn cl? 12:05:36 -!- coyo [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 12:08:04 nikodemus: Well. It is more like on demand. I am the TA for a course where students have their first programming assignments (In C). I am just reimplementing all that in lisp for my interest. 12:08:14 ans [~user@84.41.90.123] has joined #lisp 12:08:21 nikodemus: Lisp Primer, Dead Sexy Book etc are on the list that I look at 12:08:47 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 12:09:07 At times rosettacode.org gives me company 12:10:48 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 12:11:29 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:11:42 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:13:42 Bronsa [~bronsa@host227-176-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:14:17 ashokgautham: the PCL is definitely a good book. dunno about lisp primer. 12:15:38 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:16:11 I'm getting annoyed by the slot-accessor-deftranform showing up everytime I M-. on a struct slot 12:16:19 I'm not sure what to do about it though 12:20:42 special case it? 12:22:54 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:25:06 tcr: just found http://lispcabinet.sourceforge.net/ sorted! 12:27:40 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:57 hollystyles: the problem you reported is valid and it's a problem in recent version of slime; that bundle probably comes with an older checkout 12:28:09 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:33:02 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:04 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:34:05 tcr: I reported the error on slime launchpad anyways 12:34:18 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:35:04 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:10 bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 12:35:39 -!- yrgd [~yrgd@c-98-235-44-106.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:36:04 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:17 Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has joined #lisp 12:38:54 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:39:22 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:16 slash_1 [~unknown@p5DD1D9C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:59 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0B7E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:50:14 tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:14 -!- gz [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 12:51:16 Amadiro [~whoppix@1x-193-157-201-31.uio.no] has joined #lisp 12:51:16 DaDa` [~user@251-246.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 12:52:14 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:52:28 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 12:52:41 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:52:42 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-129-99.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:53:11 -!- heaumer [~heaumer@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:53:28 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:58:26 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:56 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:04:20 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:05:00 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 13:05:02 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:10:25 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:10:38 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:10:39 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:06 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:12:30 -!- solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvpcd.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: solussd] 13:16:02 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:16:06 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:17:20 -!- atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:18:16 jdz_ [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 13:19:30 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:23:27 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:25:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:49 acieroid` [~acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 13:27:41 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:27:49 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 13:29:41 vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:30:13 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 13:30:55 silenius [~silenus@p4FC239B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:22 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:29 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-116-106.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:04 rrice [~rrice@adsl-76-253-140-91.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:24 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 13:34:24 'morning 13:39:10 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 13:39:43 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:43:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:43:55 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.57.45] has joined #lisp 13:49:49 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:16 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 13:57:37 -!- vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:00:41 *mutoga*  Au café du canal (VOF..Peter p Père hé!!  /!\ 14:02:19 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@cpe-184-59-202-37.new.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:36 xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has joined #lisp 14:02:49 -!- mutoga [~Shiva@78.232.196.19] has quit [Quit: :)  © ¿ !~§¤[1;21] 0.6+8*9X²2¨@#|/[_.-{3,4°5^5"'&6,55957(FR)<7%0=1=0%6>?&£`"5^5°4,3}-._]\|#@¨2²X9*8+7.0 [12;2]¤§~¡ ? 12±¾ ®  (:] 14:03:05 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:13 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:56 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:42 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:00 -!- meingbg [~meingbg@axsv070.gsnet.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:10:00 -!- dcooper8 [~dj@c-69-136-155-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 14:12:29 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:13:06 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:17 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:47 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:51 vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:50 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:14:52 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:27 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:16:27 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:44 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:49 fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has joined #lisp 14:18:08 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:22:11 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:27:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:28:16 -!- dnm [~dnm@c-68-34-57-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 14:32:01 Bobrobyn_ [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:32:06 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.57.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:19 http://paste.lisp.org/+2G1V 14:32:21 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.57.45] has joined #lisp 14:32:53 I want to run a command in gnuplot. When I run the function, gnuplot popup window opens and closes immediately. I don't know why? Could someone tell me? 14:33:52 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 14:34:03 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:34:03 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 vng: doesn't sb-ext:process-close gproc end the process? 14:34:53 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:35:33 I need the popup window to wait for me. It just closed whenever I close it 14:36:29 madnificent: But when I add the command (read) it has the same effect 14:36:37 replace process-close with process-wait, mayhaps 14:37:24 nikodemus: It works. Many thanks 14:37:25 ruepel0r [~rue@91-66-87-219-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:45 ctp` [~user@talula.plus.com] has joined #lisp 14:40:45 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-194-11.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:40:52 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-194-11.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:42:39 nikodemus: when I close the popup, it doesn't return me to slime. I have to C-c C-b 14:42:41 vng: you may also give the -persist option to gnuplot not to close its windows right away. 14:43:55 vng: not sure 14:44:29 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:44:47 pjb: -persist option? 14:45:15 man gnuplot --> -persist lets plot windows survive after main gnuplot program exits. 14:45:48 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@1x-193-157-201-31.uio.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 14:46:45 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 14:46:47 pjb: thank you. I will try it 14:47:48 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-95-37.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:49:13 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 14:49:45 -!- Bobrobyn_ [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:50:11 pkhuong_: How would you envision a lispy interface to the shuffle intrinsics? I have defined macros used like (shuffle-ps a b :r0 :x3 :r1 :x0 :r2 :y2 :r3 :y1), thus exactly defining what goes where. 14:50:43 -!- ctp` [~user@talula.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:23 pjb: It works nice. Thank you! 14:53:29 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:54:55 angavrilov: I'd expose exactly the asm, and then someone else can figure out how to make it nice. 14:54:59 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.195.185] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:55:02 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:55:35 pkhuong_: the underlying intrinsic is named %shuffle-ps. The trouble is how to provide the interface to generate the magic immediate bitmask. 14:55:41 Make nice interfaces possible, and provide as full an access to the opcodes as possible. After that, it's starting to smell like big design upfront. 14:56:16 In C it looks something like _mm_shuffle_ps(a,b,SHUFFLE4(1,2,0,3)) 14:56:18 -!- yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:56:27 simard [~user@pcms19.grm.polymtl.ca] has joined #lisp 14:56:35 the one concession I'd make is to support non-constant immediates, by calling out to a function. 14:57:02 But for some reason the C api thinks that the canonical order is 3 2 1 0 14:57:37 so, what do you guys think of clojure ? :D 14:57:37 low order word is 0. I think of it that way too. 14:57:40 Which is exactly the reverse of what I perceive, because I think of the registers as vectors instead of big numbers 14:57:50 is it worth learning it ? 14:58:20 simard: ask in #clojure instead. 14:58:21 <_3b> simard: we think we don't want to talk about it anymore, and if we did, we would be in #clojure 14:58:25 pkhuong_: I did finally get around to figure out the x87 exceptions. Got it to identify the offending instruction and everything, but I've decided that I'm way to lazy to do anything with it without support for 80-bit floats. 14:58:27 angavrilov: viewing them as vectors in the wrong order messes things up when you pun them into another type. 14:58:39 <_3b> simard: feel free to search the logs for more details though 14:59:00 Xach: _3b: hahaha.. yeah I was expecting something like that. alright for the logs 14:59:10 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:59:11 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has left #lisp 14:59:34 pkhuong_: Anyway, to sidestep the whole issue I made macro wrappers that accept the components as individual keyword arguments in whatever order. 15:00:12 macros + keywords = danger, will robinson 15:00:23 adeht: huh? 15:00:36 angavrilov: I don't see why that's not a function. 15:00:41 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:00:52 pkhuong: they can easily have order of evaluation problems if you're not careful 15:00:53 pkhuong_: In ECL inlining sucks, remember :) 15:01:17 pkhuong_: Plus, in this way it can absolutely make sure the argument is a literal constant 15:01:20 -!- ruepel0r [~rue@91-66-87-219-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:02:06 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-uwvyhjojremwleaa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:12 angavrilov: but what if I don't want a constant? 15:02:21 yacin [~yacin@lawn-143-215-115-209.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 15:02:27 I should still be able to get it working, even with abysmal performance, in development. 15:02:50 "Since Fedora users often live on the bleeding edge of Linux development, " - what? 15:02:55 pkhuong_: Then your compilation will fail at the C compiler stage 15:03:05 no. Punt to a full call. 15:03:11 sorry, wrong channel 15:03:28 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:03:43 HarryS [H@harry.lu] has joined #lisp 15:04:04 pkhuong_: No way, the inliner matches only on type. 15:04:35 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:04:59 use a member type. 15:05:07 bah, no. 15:05:41 worst-case, write a compiler-macro. 15:05:59 Of course, the shuffle-ps thing can be made in a function too, with a compiler macro that expands to the real %shuffle-ps only if it can derive a constant... 15:07:04 right. 15:07:41 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 15:09:17 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:11:15 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:20 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:11:52 -!- TomJ- [~tomj@89.241.155.73] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:06 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 15:13:07 dto [~user@cpe-74-75-57-145.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:26 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:16:05 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:18:56 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.1] has joined #lisp 15:23:02 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-120-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 15:23:29 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:23:32 pkhuong_: anyway, what about the syntax to specify the mask by components? 15:23:43 pkhuong_: instead of one integer 15:24:29 same deal: I don't care, and won't pretend to onow what's right. I'll let other develop nice tools. 15:24:32 *know 15:25:17 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC239B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:26:29 Anyone here on slime-devel? 15:26:54 I'm wondering if my email, Subject: Patch: make slime-read-swank-port take an argument. actually went through 15:27:36 gigamonkey: it's in the archive website 15:27:38 I think it did ... if it was sent yesterday. 15:27:47 ... or the day before. 15:28:02 cthuluh [moo@wxcvbn.org] has joined #lisp 15:28:42 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483CE42.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:57 Cool. (Should of thought of checking the archive.) 15:29:15 *gigamonkey* hates the way Gmail handles mail you sent and received. 15:30:01 pkhuong_: Of course, in lisp you can just write #4r1203... 15:30:14 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D1E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:31:26 right. 15:33:43 HarryS [H@harry.lu] has joined #lisp 15:34:49 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:50 pkhuong_: does this mean you're going to commit the sse2 stuff? 15:36:43 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 15:37:10 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.67.157.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 15:37:13 hopefully. It's time. 15:37:32 \o/ 15:37:54 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:38:03 whee! 15:38:14 x86-64 only, or x86 as well? 15:38:15 Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has joined #lisp 15:38:45 x86-64. 15:38:59 pkhuong_: I wonder, if there can be a contrib called x86-SSE with package named (or nicknamed) SSE, is a common *features* entry entirely out of the question? #+(or sb-sse-intrinsics (and ecl sse2)) is sort of fine for asd definitions, or even :use entries, but a bit on the long side for use in the actual code... 15:39:35 Maybe it could be pushed when the contrib is loaded, or something... 15:39:42 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39:45 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:41:26 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 15:45:13 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.79.53.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:46:42 yacin_ [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 15:46:42 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:47:08 tfb [~tfb@94.197.108.65.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:47:11 -!- yacin_ [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 15:47:15 yacin_ [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 15:47:53 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:48:13 -!- yacin [~yacin@lawn-143-215-115-209.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:49:19 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:50:36 pkhuong_: How would you name the magic special variable for controlling SSE pack printing? 15:51:05 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:51:52 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:53:18 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:18 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:28 *sse-pack-printing-control* 16:01:42 *magic-sse-pack-printing-control* even. 16:01:51 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 16:02:39 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:49 I was thinking more of something like *sse-pack-print-mode* or *print-sse-pack-as*, with possible values of nil, :int, :float and :double 16:03:25 Or *print-sse-pack* to look like *print-escape* 16:03:35 if the feature is similar. 16:03:44 HarryS [H@harry.lu] has joined #lisp 16:03:44 *print-sse-pack-type* ? 16:06:41 pjb: An sse pack is a 16-byte chunk that can be interpreted as 2 doubles, 4 floats, or nondescript binary data. The variable is supposed to be a hint as to how the printer should handle it. 16:08:56 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:09:17 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:09:55 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:12 -!- vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:12:08 milanj [~milanj_@77-46-169-62.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:13:29 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:14:40 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:37 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:16:57 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.233.185] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 16:18:14 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:20:44 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:59 -!- hollystyles [~chatzilla@mail.weblogik.biz] has left #lisp 16:25:44 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:28:18 -!- Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:31:04 Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:33 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:45 HarryS [H@2001:470:892c:3432::1] has joined #lisp 16:34:36 Phoodus [foo@174-22-199-91.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:51 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:56 <_3b> nikodemus: does sb-cga::double-float-quiet-nan actually get called enough for performance to matter? 16:35:37 Madsy^ [~madman@ti0207a340-0132.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:36:39 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 16:36:49 valvola [~val@host154-252-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:37:10 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:37:38 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:37:54 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:26 -!- HarryS [H@2001:470:892c:3432::1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:20 _3b: let me check 16:41:46 -!- dto [~user@cpe-74-75-57-145.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:42:44 _3b: the single version certainly does, and the double version would if i had root finders for double floats 16:42:50 -!- benny [~user@i577A81BD.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:43:05 look at quadratic-roots 16:43:18 dto [~user@cpe-74-75-57-145.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:43:27 locci [~nes@93.37.196.195] has joined #lisp 16:43:30 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.108.65.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 16:43:47 benny [~user@i577A3D56.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:43:55 <_3b> nikodemus: ok, i was assuming it was just a rare error condition there 16:44:26 i use the root finders in intersection tests, and a lot of times the result is false 16:44:33 <_3b> ah 16:44:56 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.196.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:45:11 but as long as the sbcl version is fast, i don't mind what other ports do :) 16:45:46 <_3b> how about (defun d-f-q-n () +d-f-q-n+) where +d-f-q-n+ is a constant on darwin (or wherever it is that bug isn't a problem) and a defparameter elsewhere? 16:46:08 what bug? 16:46:19 <_3b> the inability to compile literal NaNs 16:46:23 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 16:46:38 huh 16:46:46 <_3b> lp 486812 16:47:08 <_3b> hmm, what was the syntax for getting bots to expand those? 16:48:07 lp: 486812 16:48:08 -!- atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:14 nope... 16:48:23 Okay Lispers, you're head start is up. But I still hope to get some good Lisp submissions for this http://www.codequarterly.com/code-challenges/markup/ 16:48:28 anyways, sb-cga really assumes that traps are off 16:48:39 it should probably turn them off explicitly 16:48:49 The first guy I've seen working on it is doing it in Perl. You gonna stand for that!? 16:49:03 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 16:49:17 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:50:03 <_3b> ah, i guess specbot isn't here, that would explain it 16:50:25 _3b: are you on linux right now? 16:50:29 <_3b> yeah 16:51:22 (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel) 16:51:22 (sb-int:set-floating-point-modes :traps nil)) 16:51:57 put that under (error "This file is SBCL only!") 16:52:13 it should allow the nans to work everywhere 16:52:41 <_3b> yeah, that seems to work 16:52:54 ok, i'll push it 16:53:20 <_3b> cool 16:53:42 gigamonkey: I'm okay with that. 16:53:48 Perl is a really nice language. 16:53:57 Now, if it was PHP, we'd have a problem. 16:55:08 Makoryu: heh. 16:55:16 *gigamonkey* is actually a Perl hacker from way back. 16:55:24 <_3b> nikodemus: did i ever ask you if quaternion routines would be reasonable to add to sb-cga? (not that i'm likely to get around to doing so very soon) 16:55:41 _3b: i would not mind 16:57:28 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:57:31 <_3b> ok, now i just need an excuse to do some 3d coding :) 16:57:50 <_3b> (and time, i guess that part is important too) 17:00:49 jdz [~jdz@host210-105-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:01:08 -!- dboswell [~dave@64.55.42.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:59 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:03:46 HarryS [H@harry.lu] has joined #lisp 17:03:51 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:04:56 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 17:05:39 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 17:06:42 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:47 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:12 where do I get quicklisp? 17:10:28 jewel: ask in #quicklisp 17:10:33 You should have asked "how" 17:10:39 So that someone could answer "quickly" 17:10:54 -!- samo [~samo@88.200.108.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:13:46 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d069db2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:52 Good evening! 17:14:02 hello 17:14:35 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.95] has joined #lisp 17:20:34 minion: herep 17:20:34 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``herep''. 17:20:49 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:21:36 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:23:23 ah, good. at least minion doesn't have herep's 17:23:44 jewel: what madnificent said 17:26:23 I was really just trying to see if minion was here. 17:26:35 *gigamonkey* is slow this morning. 17:27:48 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:28:22 moah [~gnu@188.109.169.245] has joined #lisp 17:29:20 -!- ashokgautham [~ashokgaut@203.199.213.3] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:30:50 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:26 -!- jdz [~jdz@host210-105-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:32:30 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:33:18 -!- milanj [~milanj_@77-46-169-62.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:33:47 HarryS [H@harry.lu] has joined #lisp 17:34:32 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 17:35:06 srolls [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 17:36:13 aceluck [~aceluck@175.144.254.120] has joined #lisp 17:38:25 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-152-96.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:40:14 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:52 <_3b> nikodemus: is the deftype sfunction in sb-cga/types.lisp intended to be in the common code? 17:46:38 yes 17:46:47 it's used all over the place 17:47:16 <_3b> ok, i was assuming sbcl already had one, so put it into ccl.lisp as well, i'll remove that one then 17:48:42 _3b: since the portable version is just as good as the sbcl's built-in one (identical, actually), i prefer to make it explicitly shared 17:48:53 easier to understand, less stuff to do for new ports 17:49:13 <_3b> yeah, not objecting to it, just making sure i remove the right one :) 17:49:48 :) 17:56:54 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:59:34 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 18:01:48 rfg [~rfg@host81-102-109-24.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:20 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 18:07:50 Heh, regarding GPG keysigning parties, I wonder if conferencing over skype would work. 18:08:46 -!- rfg [~rfg@host81-102-109-24.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 18:09:05 I guess that a procedure could be designed, so as to establish identity<->key mappings with satisfying levels of certainty. 18:11:08 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757808.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:33 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:13:16 Thing is, I'm setting up a farm of VMs for testing purposes, and building binaries might be a happy unintended side effect. 18:14:29 depI'd like to organize a GPG keysigning party at next ELS. 18:14:34 Currently I have OSes set up and I'm cobbling up a script to update lisps in them. 18:14:36 deepfire: I'd like to organize a GPG keysigning party at next ELS. 18:15:15 On the otherhand, if quicklisp becomes mainstream, perhaps we won't need to sign our packages on cliki anymore... 18:15:24 pjb, going abroad is outside of my means, currently; although this might change by the time the next OLS comes up. 18:15:39 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:15:45 deepfire: wait a little, ELS may come to a country near your! :-) 18:15:53 pjb: quicklisp can use PGP verification to install things not already integrated into quicklisp. 18:16:03 pjb: well, "can" is more like "will" 18:16:06 Ok, so it's still a valid idea. 18:16:48 deepfire: if you can get by signed a few debian folks (which are all over the world), you'll be pretty well connected 18:16:51 quicklisp can assimilate asdf-install's functionality pretty easily. 18:17:11 nikodemus, good idea, thanks! 18:18:18 -!- lnostdal_ [~quassel@222.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:19:21 *deepfire* watches in awe, as nikodemus storms launchpad with SBCL activity.. 18:21:13 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:21:16 -!- valvola [~val@host154-252-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 18:23:03 argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.174.25] has joined #lisp 18:23:15 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:17 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:24:14 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:24:15 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:24:28 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:25:32 syamajal_ [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:25:44 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:27:26 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:28:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 18:29:13 rfg [~rfg@host81-102-109-24.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:18 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:31:57 silenius [~silenus@dslb-088-075-077-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:40 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:32:59 timor [~timor@port-92-195-78-148.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:33:17 -!- syamajal_ [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:38 -!- dto [~user@cpe-74-75-57-145.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:18 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:35:29 dto [~user@cpe-74-75-57-145.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:35:55 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:37:05 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:11 tcr, try lowering safety? 18:38:38 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:39:02 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:39:05 drforr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:22 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:41:22 rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:30 smolyn [~smolyn@76.77.66.100] has joined #lisp 18:43:25 -!- aceluck [~aceluck@175.144.254.120] has quit [Quit: aceluck] 18:46:14 -!- Deltafire [~chris@82-71-44-155.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:48:23 nwb [~user@h152n2c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:19 What lisp book is recommended for beginners? 18:52:42 what kind of beginner? 18:52:52 Are you comfortable programming in other languages? 18:52:57 minion: tell nwb about pcl 18:52:57 nwb: direct your attention towards pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 18:53:01 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:53:10 yes I am 18:53:16 nwb: PCL, then. :) 18:53:18 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082A72F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:27 hm ok, thanks 18:53:44 gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:54 *nwb* thinks "that was fast" 18:54:10 -!- nwb [~user@h152n2c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: thanks] 18:54:18 nwb: And look, now the author is here to answer all your questions ;) 18:54:20 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 18:54:27 awww, missed him. 18:54:34 me? 18:54:49 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:55:05 gigamonkey: indeed. 18:55:16 -!- dto [~user@cpe-74-75-57-145.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55:27 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Client Quit] 18:56:18 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B10F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:00:49 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:58 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:05:52 francogrex [~user@109.130.92.78] has joined #lisp 19:06:48 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.174.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:06:59 fjellfras [~fjellfras@123.236.183.96] has joined #lisp 19:08:58 I'm doing iterations to conditionally transform some data (or data indices) from one large array (origin) to another (target): I thought since the data are in "arrays" and not lists I could get away by doing this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/114124 but I estimated it will take around 5 hours to do this job! 19:09:29 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:10:07 will injecting the data into hash tables and doing the "work" there be faster and more efficient? 19:12:31 <_3b> using a hash to index one of the arrays would probably speed things up 19:12:38 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:27 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:14:48 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:43 josemanuel [~josemanue@119.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:19:11 lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:19:15 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:20:12 peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-116-43.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 19:20:14 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:21:33 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:48 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.67.157.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24:58 _3b: ok, but I thought using arrays would make things go faster... actually it's about the same speed if instead of the arrays they were lists 19:25:26 hello! Anyone remember the name of the function that binds a CLOS object's slots to variables with the slot names in a little environment of it's own, like let? 19:25:35 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 19:25:44 francogrex: you're just iterating forward across them. Lists might actually be more efficient 19:25:51 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-179-142.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:03 OliverUv: you mean with-slots ? 19:26:27 <_3b> francogrex: arrays should be faster than lists, but O(N) is better than O(M*N) 19:26:49 <_3b> (though if you were using FOR IN for iterating across the lists, arrays wouldn't help) 19:27:06 <_3b> or otherwise just walking them directly as opposed to doing random access 19:28:08 galdor: that's it, thanks! 19:28:15 np 19:29:08 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:29:49 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:38 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:34:03 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-6305.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 19:34:09 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-46-4.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:36:18 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:30 _3b: yes I was using loop for i in list... was much faster. 19:36:55 <_3b> nikodemus: pushed some changes to my sb-cga tree 19:36:56 dlowe: right. I'll revert to lists and maybe throw in a hash somewhere 19:38:07 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:38:30 <_3b> francogrex: yeah, not too surprising that a bunch of 2d aref are slower than walking a list in order, 1d arrays might be faster 19:39:25 HarryS [H@harry.lu] has joined #lisp 19:39:27 <_3b> francogrex: using a hash as an index into origin would probably be best though, no point in walking all of it (list or array) if you only ever need the entries that matchs omething in the other array 19:40:20 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316055951]] 19:40:22 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:31 _3b: ok great I'll fix it that way then 19:40:37 heiz [~heiz@ppp89-110-31-93.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 19:40:52 Hi! Does anyone know if there are lisp implementations with posthix syntax like RPL?? 19:41:08 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 19:41:37 or something like this - intrested in Forth and Lisp mix 19:42:00 heiz: Factor. 19:42:22 heiz: http://factorcode.org/ 19:44:02 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.81.220.plusnet.pte-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:21 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.81.220.plusnet.pte-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:45:39 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:39 -!- moah [~gnu@188.109.169.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:47:22 ... one could theoretically create real-life implementation of the language used in the "Wiz" book series... 19:47:42 which was Lisp-alike implemented in Forth 19:48:29 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:49:30 -!- heiz [~heiz@ppp89-110-31-93.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 19:53:25 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:54:23 manuel_ [~manuel_@p54B8B4D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:51 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:08 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:06:11 Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0132.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:06:11 -!- Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0132.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 20:06:11 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 20:08:05 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:08:16 -!- smolyn [~smolyn@76.77.66.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:56 -!- Madsy^ [~madman@ti0207a340-0132.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:25 HarryS [H@harry.lu] has joined #lisp 20:10:25 -!- silenius [~silenus@dslb-088-075-077-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:10:41 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@119.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 20:11:51 _3b: where is matrix used at compile-time? 20:15:40 oh, i see -- through identity-matrix. since sbcl inlines it i never noticed :) 20:15:50 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:12 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-46-4.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 20:20:10 smolyn [~smolyn@76.77.66.100] has joined #lisp 20:20:35 _3b: merged & pushed 20:21:42 <_3b> nikodemus: yeah, didn't notice until i read the warnings, since it seems to get a valid value for the constant by the time it is loaded anyway 20:24:35 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:24:42 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:48 -!- DaDa` [~user@251-246.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:28:04 how to check if an object is of a specific CLOS class? 20:28:24 OliverUv: typep 20:28:25 something like (my-clos-classp object) 20:28:43 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-205-100.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:28:48 Defining a class with defclass also defines a type of the same name. 20:28:49 thanks! 20:28:59 bgs100 [~ian@h85.174.17.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:03 -!- bgs100 [~ian@h85.174.17.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:29:03 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:29:04 smolyn_ [~smolyn@76.77.66.100] has joined #lisp 20:29:26 -!- scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:30:20 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-207-15.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:02 -!- smolyn [~smolyn@76.77.66.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:31:02 -!- smolyn_ is now known as smolyn 20:33:41 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-85-104.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:35:35 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-44-237.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:38:49 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:12 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:31 HarryS [H@harry.lu] has joined #lisp 20:42:51 Jubb [~ghost@24-151-75-175.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:46:08 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:52 -!- simard [~user@pcms19.grm.polymtl.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:36 gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:50:39 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 20:51:17 Kenjin [~josesanto@89-181-97-254.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 20:52:30 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:56:22 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-179-142.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:58:53 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:00:09 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d069db2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 21:01:54 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:03:42 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:04:15 fugue88 [~dsowen@173-165-137-65-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:31 HarryS [H@harry.lu] has joined #lisp 21:10:46 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:11:21 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:13:06 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:15:03 Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 21:15:07 Hi 21:15:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:41 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:42 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:17:38 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:18:28 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:18:32 -!- Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:19:12 -!- tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:19:39 tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:19:43 -!- gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:08 scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 21:25:30 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 21:25:54 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@p5DD1D9C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:26:15 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 21:26:30 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: tfb] 21:27:09 hello does anyone have the current quicklisp quickstart url? 21:27:35 mon_key: someone in #quicklisp does 21:27:40 shit 21:27:42 sorry 21:29:28 psilord [~psilord@merlin.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 21:29:46 beach: you around? 21:30:08 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:30:48 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:31:57 beach: guess you aren't around, later! 21:31:59 -!- psilord [~psilord@merlin.cs.wisc.edu] has left #lisp 21:32:27 I'm not sure everyone understands how asynchronous IRC is/can be. 21:33:16 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:33:21 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:29 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:34:46 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:34:55 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 21:36:37 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-12-166.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:37:28 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@2001:858:745:a0e4:200:1aff:fe19:d355] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:37:56 -!- cthuluh [moo@wxcvbn.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:38:22 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has joined #lisp 21:38:30 cthuluh [moo@wxcvbn.org] has joined #lisp 21:38:34 antifuchs [~foobar@2001:858:745:a0e4:200:1aff:fe19:d355] has joined #lisp 21:39:28 HarryS [H@harry.lu] has joined #lisp 21:39:30 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:42:48 -!- Jubb [~ghost@24-151-75-175.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:43:18 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:45:37 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:46:18 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-78-148.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:13 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:48:48 -!- Soulman [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 21:49:53 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:51:55 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-12-166.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 21:52:55 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:53:38 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:53:43 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-12-166.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:57:17 Hm, in one pdf I've used as reference for CLOS they show the :accessor-prefix option for defclass 21:57:27 but it doesn't seem to exist in sbcl 21:57:42 -!- fugue88 [~dsowen@173-165-137-65-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 21:58:31 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 22:00:03 heaumer [~heaumer@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:45 fusss [~chatzilla@cpe-184-59-202-37.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:44 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 22:09:27 HarryS [H@harry.lu] has joined #lisp 22:12:03 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1D9C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:16 "Sorry, quicklisp in implementation "Armed Bear Common Lisp" is not supported yet." 22:12:21 sorry, wrong chan 22:12:35 but still relevant ;-) 22:12:53 OliverUv: :accessor-prefix is not a standard defclass option. What pdf reference is that? 22:15:06 is was proposed but was gotten rid of during standardization 22:15:30 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:16:54 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 22:16:54 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:27 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: irl ragequit] 22:18:34 Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 22:20:50 rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:49 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:50 and rightly so, since people use :accessor/:reader/:writer almost interchangeably and would be a nightmare for smooth code updates 22:24:15 luis: http://www.dreamsongs.com/NewFiles/ECOOP.pdf 22:24:40 g'night folks 22:26:18 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-117-5.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 22:29:06 -!- rfg [~rfg@host81-102-109-24.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 22:33:22 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-6305.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:34:12 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:40 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:34:43 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@89-181-97-254.net.novis.pt] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 22:36:02 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-12-166.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:36:21 -!- Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has left #lisp 22:39:02 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:39:27 HarryS [H@harry.lu] has joined #lisp 22:40:41 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 22:42:50 TomJ [~tomj@89.241.155.73] has joined #lisp 22:43:13 what's wrong with this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/114130 I'm getting all (gethash i table) set to the same vector 22:44:08 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:18 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:42 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:26 francogrex: that's because you initialize the hash table with the same vector 22:47:33 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:38 #(0 0 0 0) will always be the same element. 22:47:41 use make-array 22:47:42 francogrex: try (make-array 7 :initial-element 0) 22:48:40 francogrex: not just the same element, it's actual a literal whose modification is prohibited 22:49:35 Actually I wonder if that's true 22:50:21 tcr: why would it be? 22:51:10 My memory somehow connects results from reader-macros with literals 22:53:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:53:14 Sure it is, it's a literal for the compiler 22:53:55 Even stuff like #.(make-array ) :-) but perhaps I'm just confused 22:56:14 tcr: just curious. wondring if this was an ansi compatiblility feature or if is ther was a specific reason/rationale? 22:56:19 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host227-176-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:56:45 What is "this"? 22:58:29 `#(' 23:00:15 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.180.139] has joined #lisp 23:02:26 clhs quote 23:02:36 tcr: you may have seen it in there. "The consequences are undefined if literal objects (including quoted objects) are destructively modified." 23:02:48 (specbot seems offline. ref is http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/s_quote.htm) 23:03:27 antifuchs: how's your new, exciting job going? :) 23:03:43 so, nasal demons. (: 23:03:48 aha ok; 23:03:54 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:56 antifuchs: The question is if the result of #() constitutes a literal or not 23:03:57 luis: excellent! lots of great stuff to do (: 23:03:59 *francogrex* such an amateur 23:04:31 antifuchs: awesome. Good luck with that. :) 23:04:48 tcr: the glossary has the answer: yes 23:05:01 (at least aiui) 23:05:15 #() is a self-evaluating object, which is a literal, so it's undefined behavior. 23:06:10 by that logic, wouldn't modifying 'some-symbol be undefined behaviour as well? 23:06:33 how would you modify it? 23:06:44 string-upcase its symbol-name? (: 23:06:53 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-74-138.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:07:00 I could change its plist, does that count? 23:07:03 (or nreverse it... I think Xach did that once 23:07:11 ...with hilarious effects) 23:07:36 I don't think it's that kind of modification (: 23:08:52 What about (intern "FOO" #.*package*)? :-) 23:09:14 luis: ah, there. 23:09:27 glossary defn for "self-evaluating object": an object that is neither a symbol nor a cons. 23:09:31 HarryS [H@harry.lu] has joined #lisp 23:09:41 antifuchs: heh. What a lame definition. 23:09:43 so, no, symbols are exempt from that rule. 23:11:13 -!- atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:14 prob. lives around this: (vector-push-extend 'a #0()) 23:14:22 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.92.78] has quit [Quit: late here] 23:14:28 rbarraud [~rbarraud@202-180-88-252.callplus.net.nz] has joined #lisp 23:14:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:15:17 mon_key: #() creates a simple vector, so not expressly adjustable anyway (: 23:15:23 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:42 *antifuchs* learns about the difference between expressly adjustable and actually adjustable 23:16:22 antifuchs: yeah, so the simple vec is _more_ literal than one created with `make-array' 23:16:49 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-4-34.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:17:38 literalness in the hyperspec is defined through the evaluator. if the object evaluates to itself, it's a literal 23:17:44 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-152-96.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:18:03 rfg [~rfg@host81-102-109-24.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:28 antifuchs: so maybe it is even more like a string which is "self evaluating" than other `#' syntaxes? 23:18:36 since #() is made into a vector by the reader, and that vector evaluates to itself, makes it a literal. 23:19:06 it helps to think about the code in conses here (: 23:20:27 it's all about the fact that there's a thing that's not a symbol or a cons in there. when you try to modify that destructively, it'll possibly bite you (or the demons coming out of your nose will). 23:20:35 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-171-227.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:05 Wasn't there some strong disagreement about the need for simple vectors during the standard? 23:21:46 no idea (: 23:21:54 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 23:22:49 dto [~user@cpe-74-75-57-145.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:23:11 but there is "something" in the _empty_ array created with make-array yes? 23:23:39 it's an array of one dimension, with no elements in it 23:23:50 hm, it's bedtime for me. good night! 23:25:09 c|mell [~cmell@m121-202-57-97.smartone-vodafone.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:41 -!- kooll [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:31:43 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Quit: felipe] 23:37:04 qbomb [~Q@12.153.207.132] has joined #lisp 23:37:05 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-117-5.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:53 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.57.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:01 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p54B8B4D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 23:39:07 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 23:39:23 abugosh [~Adium@pool-173-66-13-200.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:47:40 -!- rfg [~rfg@host81-102-109-24.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 23:48:19 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.208] has joined #lisp 23:48:49 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:51:22 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 23:52:28 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@198-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:54:36 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:17 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:56:17 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]