00:02:45 i wonder how does it work, since 8601 doesn't look like a symbol 00:02:57 (defun |8601| ...) 00:03:38 rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:38 -!- rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:03:38 rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 00:03:40 -!- gonzojive [~red@128.12.169.254] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 00:04:43 and ~// has peculiar reader rules 00:04:51 or rather, it has nothing to do with the reader rules. 00:05:02 it has its own rules. 00:05:09 gonzojive [~red@128.12.169.254] has joined #lisp 00:05:25 gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-162682.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:05:25 -!- gonzojive [~red@128.12.169.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:29 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:05:30 -!- rich_holygoat_ is now known as rich_holygoat 00:05:39 hi, rich_holygoat! 00:05:48 wazzup Xach 00:06:11 yes, I'm back to remembering to start my IRC client :) 00:06:22 Looking forward to seeing you again at ILC2010! 00:07:50 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:08:03 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:16:18 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:33 -!- khrum42 [~khrum42@2001:a60:f05d:1::dead] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:22:43 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:23:14 ah yes, I need to start planning that 00:23:19 never been to Reno 00:27:30 davazp [~user@128.Red-88-6-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:34 ry509 [~user@c-67-161-213-229.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:53 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 00:31:25 gz__ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:32:18 -!- gz__ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:33:56 sentry [~sentry@197.sub-75-196-207.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:43 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.6] has joined #lisp 00:46:53 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-76-253-140-91.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:49:54 you can take the train. 00:50:00 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:07 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:18 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-36-223.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:52:48 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:53:07 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-29-210.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:55:42 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-175-177.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 00:56:06 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 00:59:04 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night folks] 01:07:18 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D2EC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:12:08 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.78.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:12:18 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:12:40 Axioplase [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 01:13:01 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.78.42] has joined #lisp 01:15:22 -!- upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:15:36 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 01:18:23 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:20:21 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:21:48 How can I loop elements in a sequence? 01:21:57 across 01:22:03 err, in a vector 01:22:15 no way to loop across sequences 01:22:49 So, how should I make a loop that uses single variable for elements, be the sequence a list or vector? 01:23:02 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 01:24:10 iterate over them manually 01:24:28 ok 01:25:23 -!- jaiball [~justin@c-76-119-131-178.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:27:01 abugosh [~Adium@pool-173-66-11-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:43 That sounds unefficient though for lists 01:29:08 <_3b> MAP works on sequences 01:29:42 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: irl ragequit] 01:30:51 -!- Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-17-54.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:30:52 Oh, of course! 01:31:59 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.78.42] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:32:11 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.78.42] has joined #lisp 01:33:13 or if you use only SBCL: (loop for i being each element of sequence ...) 01:33:59 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.78.42] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:34:19 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.78.42] has joined #lisp 01:35:29 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-32-110.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 01:36:28 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:34 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-162682.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 01:44:55 gonzojive [~red@rescomp-09-162682.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 01:46:08 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:46:10 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:48:57 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:48 peterhil: onSBCL, you can use extensible sequences, btw 01:50:14 extensible sequences have nothing to do with this 01:50:19 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:51:51 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.222.93] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 01:52:25 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:56 Thanks _3b, I've been stuck because of this and should've asked earlier here! I should make a note for myself, that loop is not answer to everything... :-) 02:00:19 -!- davazp [~user@128.Red-88-6-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:32 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:07:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:10:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10:41 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.57.94] has joined #lisp 02:16:48 stassats: ah, just misread the backlog, though they present a way to implement the sequence in a way that is optimal for the data 02:17:12 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:01 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:01 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:31:32 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.3] has joined #lisp 02:32:22 -!- atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:32:49 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 02:33:25 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:34:05 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:13 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 02:39:17 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@140-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:40:33 sabalaba__ [~sabalaba@c-76-118-76-200.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:47 -!- dreish [~dreish@2002:cf8a:2fad:0:21f:5bff:fe35:ae0d] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:46:14 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:46:16 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:19 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:47:01 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-173-66-11-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:51:31 _sid_ [~chatzilla@192.163.20.231] has joined #lisp 02:52:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:54:03 gko [~gko@111.82.116.147] has joined #lisp 02:55:49 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.3] has joined #lisp 02:59:28 Am I missing something. Shouldn't (shared-initialize foo t) set all the slots of foo that have :initforms to those values? 02:59:59 if they are unbound 03:00:20 Ah. 03:00:54 So if I want to be able to reset an object should I use :default-initargs in my DEFCLASS and then REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE? 03:01:47 timchen1` [tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 03:01:56 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 03:03:01 that doesn't seem especially sound to me 03:03:17 No, that doesn't work either. 03:03:22 Never mind. I'll just do it by hand. 03:05:23 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:05:38 Though it's a bit annoying that I've already specified (via :initforms and/or :default-initargs) how my object should be initialized and there's no way to just say, redo that. 03:05:44 Though there probably is and I'm just missing it. 03:08:05 just (loop for slot in (class-slots class) do (setf (slot-value-using-class class object slot) (slot-definition-initform slot))) 03:08:34 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-97-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:36 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-97-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:09:37 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-52-168.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:09:37 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-52-168.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:11:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:13:48 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.3] has joined #lisp 03:16:09 stassats: hmmm. 03:29:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:31:36 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-sxpfhkxowkpiovrh] has joined #lisp 03:32:36 Good morning everyone! 03:34:39 Kerrick [~Kerrick@helix.echoservers.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:48 I've been looking at various ways of handling projects with multiple source files, but for a personal project that remains sufficiently small, woooould it be sufficient to just load up the various files I'm using and just C-c C-k them in manually? 03:35:08 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:25 Mesh: ASDF is simple and adequate for those purposes. 03:35:41 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:36:48 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.3] has joined #lisp 03:38:19 Mesh: have you seen Xach's guide on how to get started with a simple ASDF-based project? 03:38:26 No, I haven't 03:38:57 minion: please tell Mesh about xach-asdf 03:38:57 Mesh: please see xach-asdf: Xach's article "Making a small Common Lisp project" can be found at http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 03:39:23 Oh well that looks helpful. Thanks. 03:40:01 -!- Plazma [~Plazma@freenode/staff/plazma] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:46:32 xinming [~hyy@115.221.1.174] has joined #lisp 03:48:08 Plazma [~Plazma@freenode/staff/plazma] has joined #lisp 03:52:44 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.209.39] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 03:52:47 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@helix.echoservers.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 03:52:52 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:53:28 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:32 Morning beach. 03:55:46 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:59:20 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.3] has joined #lisp 04:08:58 -!- diwr [diwr@unaffiliated/diwr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:09:26 benny` [~user@i577A2AFD.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:10:05 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:13:06 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Off I go! Into the, eh, wet and cold yonder.] 04:13:20 -!- benny` is now known as benny 04:14:00 -!- _sid_ [~chatzilla@192.163.20.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:48 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:17:22 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-12-143.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:21:49 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.3] has joined #lisp 04:22:51 TomJ- [~tomj@89.241.155.73] has joined #lisp 04:23:01 -!- TomJ [~tomj@89.241.144.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:24:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.3] has quit [Client Quit] 04:24:49 *stassats* curses FFI, how can anyone live with these segfaults? 04:25:08 gwynddyllyd [~yghor@201.19.21.235] has joined #lisp 04:25:24 *beach* totally agrees with stassats. 04:26:31 firing up GDB... (no debugging symbols found) 04:28:42 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.57.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:17 too bad you can't rewrite all software in Lisp on a whim 04:33:00 -!- Jeddeb [~Jeddeb@modemcable109.239-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:58 xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has joined #lisp 04:36:25 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-12-143.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:37:05 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-12-143.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:37:13 Yeah, when Firefox has a problem, it would be nice to have a restart: Return to the application command loop? 04:38:11 apparently nobody else wants that 04:38:27 They don't know what they are missing. 04:40:16 They have invented processes. 04:40:28 -!- gwynddyllyd [~yghor@201.19.21.235] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:46:55 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:47:08 diwr 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[~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:15:33 bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 06:18:04 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@244.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:18:28 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:18:44 good morning 06:19:00 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:06 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:19:32 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:20:33 -!- red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:23:32 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:24:08 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:28:08 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:28:53 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118.92.0.92] has joined #lisp 06:29:09 -!- dose [~dose@offyourtrol.li] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.6 -- Are we there yet?] 06:33:15 dose [~dose@offyourtrol.li] has joined #lisp 06:35:15 any favorite lisp art or cartoons out there? I like the "These are your father's parentheses" from http://xkcd.com/297/ 06:36:00 nope, that's about the only one i know 06:36:10 spels is nice... 06:36:19 http://lambda.bugyo.tk/cdr/mwl/ Personal favorite. 06:36:38 http://www.lisperati.com/ looks like its got some 06:37:18 another xkcd is here http://xkcd.com/312/ ... and here http://xkcd.com/224/ 06:38:10 224 is great 06:38:44 sykopomp: I'm sure those would be grand if I could read them 06:38:53 hehe :) same problem here.. 06:39:44 are lispcats art? 06:40:33 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.1.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:42:03 sykopomp: my mind is blown by that manga 06:46:33 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:47:45 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 06:49:03 -!- ry509 [~user@c-67-161-213-229.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:51:12 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@142-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 06:52:13 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:52:26 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:53:03 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:58:49 : dcmp ( n -- ) 2 begin 2dup dup * >= while 2dup /mod swap if drop 1+ 1 or \ next odd number else -rot nip dup . then repeat drop . ; 06:58:57 whoops, wrong channel 07:00:26 antivigilante [~antivigil@184-98-134-85.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:24 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:05:31 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:05:35 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@184-98-134-85.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:06:30 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:14:45 -!- Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:15:03 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:16:22 ejh [~ejh@ip208-103-38-36.dyn.mintel.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:55 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 07:17:12 antivigilante [~antivigil@184-98-134-85.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:51 -!- ejh [~ejh@ip208-103-38-36.dyn.mintel.net] has left #lisp 07:30:24 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 07:31:16 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31:31 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-18-242.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:16 red1ynx [~Dzmitry@ramonak.bas-net.by] has joined #lisp 07:35:34 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:37:17 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 07:38:36 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118.92.0.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:38:54 sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has joined #lisp 07:42:46 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:46:14 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755f3f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:02 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:56:01 -!- gonzojive [~red@rescomp-09-162682.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 07:56:11 qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 07:57:36 valvola [~val@151.61.119.94] has joined #lisp 07:57:58 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-160-172.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:59:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 08:01:28 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 08:01:59 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 08:02:17 spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:02:27 Good morning everyone! 08:03:25 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:05:25 xinming [~hyy@115.221.5.242] has joined #lisp 08:06:21 -!- sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10:00 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 08:11:02 -!- MagBo [~Sweater@87.246.131.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:50 -!- dnm [~dnm@c-68-34-57-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 08:18:53 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:24:36 hi spiaggia 08:24:56 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:25:36 zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:27:58 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-41-108.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 08:28:45 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 08:29:26 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-34-46.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:33:37 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:46 -!- red1ynx [~Dzmitry@ramonak.bas-net.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:44:17 Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has joined #lisp 08:45:05 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:45:46 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:47:31 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:50:25 jmbr [~jmbr@136.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:54:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:57:05 tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:57:23 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@136.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #lisp 09:11:00 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Quit: ->UPS] 09:11:04 c|mell [~cmell@203.145.92.172] has joined #lisp 09:12:23 sykopomp: Is there a machine readable form of http://lambda.bugyo.tk/cdr/mwl/ ? I'd apply Google Translate on it and write it in a couple of other languages... 09:12:57 Ah, an optimist. :) 09:13:12 Or we'd need emacs input methods allowing us to type in ideograms "graphically". 09:13:35 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.96] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:14:05 Hurrah for wubizixing. 09:14:40 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:14:40 Unfortunately wubizixing doesn't handle all of the Japanese simplifications, afaik, and Japanese input methods don't have anything comparable. 09:15:17 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 09:15:18 You could use a stroke oriented recognizer -- I think ibm released one a while ago -- and use that if you know the correct stroke order for Kanji. 09:16:06 Otherwise you'll be stuck with stroke counting and a dictionary and the text in that document isn't that clear, so you'd probably want a native reader to do it :) 09:16:28 Best to ask the author to do it and provide furigana while he's at it. 09:16:33 pjb: well, I guess I could manage to get some translations... 09:17:11 can't provide native translators, but I could ask around :D 09:17:31 Zhivago: wibizixing doesn't seem to be offered as an emacs input method. :-( 09:18:11 Yeah, well, the version that supports traditional characters is also not openly available, last I looked. 09:18:20 p_l: just a transcription would be enough. We can start from Google Translate and rewrite it in any language from that. 09:18:31 But it is a great input method -- I don't speak Chinese, but I can type it with wubizixing. 09:18:37 *p_l* unfortunately doesn't have his dictionary 09:18:48 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:57 and I won't have power for next wo days 09:19:01 *two 09:19:06 Nothing urgent. :-) 09:19:50 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 09:20:23 I could probably transcribe it, maybe even start on very slow translation, but I haven't touched my japanese materials for two years now :/ 09:22:06 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 09:24:25 japanese is quite nice language :) 09:24:43 (though writing is *hard*, the same goes for Chinese) 09:34:23 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:35:14 vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:55 Good morning! 09:37:30 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:40:07 Hello vng. Haven't seen you for a while. 09:40:17 p_l: If you can read it, then I could understand that it's easier to write English than Japanse. 09:40:28 spiaggia: How are you? 09:40:46 Not so good, because my vacation is over. How about you? Still in Paris I take it? 09:41:11 spiaggia: yeah, everything's going well 09:42:11 hello spiaggia 09:42:30 spiaggia: vacation is also over here. The lab is not empty! :) 09:43:11 mvilleneuve: Hey! You too, huh? 09:43:32 vng: Yeah, the French are very regular with vacations. 09:43:32 spiaggia: yes, back at work... 09:44:43 homie [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has joined #lisp 09:44:58 mvilleneuve: Aren't you impressed by all the SICL activity during the month of August? 09:45:29 jmbr [~jmbr@82.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:45:44 If he's not, I am! 09:46:09 pjb: Thanks! 09:46:10 spiaggia: indeed, I haven't had time to look at the code yet, but that's a _lot_ of commit messages :) 09:47:09 spiaggia: I see you are in progress in working on CLIM 3 in the logs. Nice! 09:47:23 vng: Yeah, but that is going to take some time. 09:47:53 spiaggia: and How's your vietnamese? 09:48:07 vng: Doing great progress, thanks! 09:48:08 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:49:36 spiaggia: I'm learning French here too, e-learning course. 09:49:44 vng: Nice! 09:50:04 spiaggia: yup! 09:50:37 for what reason are you learning vietnamese? general interested, or some relation to vietnam? 09:50:40 vng: It is not *that* hard if you already know some English. Many words are the same. 09:51:06 daniel: Par of our Masters program in informatics happens in Ho Chi Minh city. 09:51:11 *Part 09:51:27 i see 09:51:31 spiaggia: yeah, and some French are the same ones in vietnamese 09:51:42 -!- valvola [~val@151.61.119.94] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 09:51:56 vng: True, xe o to, ximang, etc. 09:52:09 spiaggia: yeah, ^^ 09:52:17 vng: I designed an input method for Emacs that lets me type Vietnamese much faster. 09:52:52 spiaggia: Has it done? 09:53:06 vng: ? 09:53:39 vng: I use the letters f and j that aren't used in Vietnames to obtain various accents. 09:54:07 spiaggia: Have you tried telex input method? 09:54:27 spiaggia: I use it 09:54:45 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 09:54:54 vng: No, but I looked at it. How is it compared to VIQR (which I used before designing my own)? 09:55:10 pjb: japanese has mostly very simple pronunciation, expecially compared to languages that are only nominally phonetic in writing... 09:56:02 spiaggia: it used letters, not the number or special character to type accents 09:56:05 vng: VIQR is tedious because all the characters for getting accents (+, `, ^, ~) are difficult to reach on a US keyboard. 09:56:18 spiaggia: so, it can be faster 09:56:24 vng: Yes, I see. 09:57:00 vng: Are you aware of any spelling/grammar checker for Vietnamese? 09:57:38 vng: I already have a trivial one that checks each syllable, but that is not good enough because pretty much every possible syllable has some meaning in Vietnamese. 09:58:16 spiaggia: No, I don't use it, and I don't know there is one 09:58:32 spiaggia: sorry about that 09:58:52 vng: That'll be another project! 09:59:04 spiaggia: :) 10:00:57 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:03:41 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:19 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 10:07:01 <_nix00> dear,all, I want to write a web-framework use lisp...so... am i crazy ??? IoI 10:07:43 Yes. 10:08:37 writing IoI makes you seem crazy, yes. 10:09:29 -!- abend [~user@alpha.muted.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:38 <_nix00> why lisp isn't famous on web ? I think lisp is very good at to write these program, easy than python ,ruby, php. 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:04 It is due to a heterosexual conspiracy. 10:10:33 _nix00: There is no reason to think "good" implies "famous", so you shouldn't be surprised. 10:10:45 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 10:11:39 <_nix00> so,I think I should write a lisp framework for web. 10:11:49 _nix00: Go ahead. 10:11:52 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:12:16 You might consider the existing ones first. 10:12:20 _nix00: I assume you know about existing Web-related Lisp programs such as Hunchentoot, right? 10:12:59 <_nix00> I've heared. 10:13:08 <_nix00> but nerver to see it 10:14:13 <_nix00> Does hunchntoot support template futures ? 10:14:27 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:14:43 <_nix00> I think I should read it first. 10:14:55 An excellent idea. 10:15:12 <_nix00> little time cost. 10:15:59 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:19:40 serichsen [~user@e179100232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:19:55 Hello! 10:20:43 aceluck [~aceluck@175.144.254.120] has joined #lisp 10:21:46 nix: Also look at weblocks, and the other frameworks around. 10:22:50 <_nix00> well,is there some fastcgi programe for lisp 10:22:56 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0B34E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:58 -!- diwr [diwr@unaffiliated/diwr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:23:38 <_nix00> http://www.google.com.hk/url?q=http://www.cliki.net/FastCGI&sa=U&ei=noZ7TNS8EYHonAeGjK2hDg&ved=0CBoQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGiYIa1LvbRRjcxTMbVj8VT4_cCvA who used it? 10:25:08 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:26:18 -!- c|mell [~cmell@203.145.92.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:29:09 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 10:31:35 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 10:32:55 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:33:40 hello lispers 10:33:58 c|mell [~cmell@203.145.92.172] has joined #lisp 10:34:52 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:35 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:39:04 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:40:26 -!- gko [~gko@111.82.116.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:42:32 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:44:03 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:47:26 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 10:47:45 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:50:20 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:50:36 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:20 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:51:45 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-32-110.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: kwertii] 10:52:32 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:52:37 -!- c|mell [~cmell@203.145.92.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:53:28 -!- kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.212.232] has quit [Quit: Offline] 10:55:20 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55:46 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:00:48 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01:31 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:02:25 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:07:07 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:12:55 -!- xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:15:12 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:15:42 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:27 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:21:13 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21:43 kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.207.182] has joined #lisp 11:24:56 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - 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It looks like the 'make-initforms' call to consp will always return T b/c bindforms arguments are all cons in figure 7.7. Couldn't find it as an error in the on lisp errata. Surely I'm not seeing an undiscovered error after 15+ years. could someone explain this 12:54:03 what page? 12:54:22 Krystof: when early generic functions are being fixed up, do you happen to know what changes the class-of the GF from the early definition of *the-class-standard-generic-function* to the acutal metaobject *the-class-standard-generic-function*? Or does that even happen? 12:55:22 sorry, page 98 12:55:38 page 97 contains figure 7.7 12:56:36 when parsing ((w 3) (x 1 (1+ x)) (y 2 (1+ y)) (z)) with 'make-initforms' it seems it will choke on (z) 12:57:56 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:56 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 12:57:58 it doesn't seem so to me 12:58:30 (if (consp b) will return T for each item in bindforms, right? 12:58:40 that is right 13:00:03 when it gets to (z) it'll call (list (car b) (cadr b)), (z) does not have a cadr 13:00:12 err... that'll result in (z nil) 13:00:19 ok 13:00:59 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:01 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 13:01:14 so the 'else' case is just there to catch a symbol not in () 13:01:26 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:48 yes 13:02:17 k. thanks. still getting used to CL. Coming from clojure (backwards, I know) 13:02:39 on lisp doesn't sound like the best material to learn CL from 13:03:33 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 13:03:34 it's slow progress, but i don't move on until I thoroughly understand a section- I sometimes get snagged on simple things 13:03:54 mostly just looking up function/macro definitions 13:04:50 more interested in having a deeper understanding of lisp abstractions, the language itself is sufficiently similar to clojure (or, clojure is similar to cl) 13:05:44 minion: PCL? 13:05:44 PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 13:06:18 On Lisp was also "free". 13:06:54 you are better of with PCL to start. graham writes about a lot of cool stuff, but the problem is that the style itself makes you into a "perlish common lisp"-programmer. wait with onlisp until you've gone through PCL at least. 13:07:08 -!- davazp [~user@128.Red-88-6-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07:13 solussd: you mean "free as well"? 13:07:28 pcl is free? 13:07:33 click the link? :) 13:07:36 oh 13:07:52 I did, I didn't realzie the chapter links were the full text 13:08:24 thanks guys. 13:16:59 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.105] has joined #lisp 13:17:13 I've been using lispworks pe while going through on-lisp, but it isn't free/cheap. I'm usually running on OSX or Linux, what's a good CL dev environment? 13:17:41 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:18:16 solussd: sbcl or ccl with emacs and slime 13:19:02 -!- red1ynx [~Dzmitry@ramonak.bas-net.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:19:20 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-18-242.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:20:03 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 13:21:46 <_nix00> hi,all.which editor do you use? emacs or vi? 13:22:03 Emacs. 13:24:14 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:27:20 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 13:28:10 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:29 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:28:51 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 13:30:34 -!- spradnyesh 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#lisp 15:28:14 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483DD14.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:15 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:30:01 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D2EC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:32:26 lnostdal-android [~androirc@62.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:12 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-117-225.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:33:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:36:36 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:39:11 http://paste.lisp.org/display/114053 :-P 15:39:54 I'm preparing myself to become rich :D 15:40:02 kiuma: Can you be a little more specific? 15:40:08 yes 15:40:38 beach, see the prize http://giochinumerici.sisal.it/portal/page/portal/SitoGioco/superenalotto 15:40:53 I'll play all numbers 15:41:15 at least it's impossible to do zero again :) 15:41:54 and if I loose I can say it's my pc fault 15:41:58 hehe 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Connection reset by peer] 18:25:52 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-210-105.ip56.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:26:08 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:56 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:27:59 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 18:29:11 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:30:38 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:35 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755f3f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:02 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:37:00 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 18:39:08 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:26 Good evening everyone! 18:39:34 It is very quiet here today. 18:40:09 *LiamH* thinks ##quicklisp and #sbcl have drawn away the activity from #lisp 18:40:17 beach: I think everyone is intensely hacking on exciting new lisp projects 18:40:20 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@82.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:41 LiamH: That must be it! 18:40:48 Xach: That must be it! :) 18:41:03 drforr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:20 *Xach* has 8 such projects in the pipeline 18:41:44 Xach: But you are still here! 18:41:57 Xach has 9 cores 18:42:19 *drewc* is hacking intensely, but not on anything terribly exciting 18:42:22 and two keyboards 18:45:18 drewc: Something like a UI ? :-) 18:45:59 Jabberwockey [~jens@89.204.153.213] has joined #lisp 18:47:29 Somebody should be hacking quicklisp support into SLIME!! 18:47:45 ,quickload with tab completion 18:47:56 someone did that, but it was for an older design. 18:52:26 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082B554.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:52:48 I am hacking intensely on an exciting new R / elisp project! 18:52:54 *Xach* hates to see effort wasted on a moving target, though 18:53:31 there's a good number of nicks I don't recognise in #sbcl 18:53:38 I guess in the meantime someone could work on ASDF2 support for SLIME (so tab completion on ,load-system groks the source-registry 18:54:54 that should work 18:55:16 I reckon you checkout is not recent enuff 18:55:52 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082A52B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:56:17 gigamonkey: you should be using the CVS version, not the release! 18:56:52 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@89.204.153.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:58:20 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:00:44 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-56-233.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:00:48 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-56-233.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:02:23 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 19:04:24 Jabberwockey [~jens@89.204.137.244] has joined #lisp 19:04:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-120.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:08:01 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:10 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13:10 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 19:13:14 Krystof: I'm using the quicklisp version. Whatever that is. 19:13:29 Xach: ? 19:13:51 Meanwhile, if anyone wants to kick the tires on my latest bit of hacking: http://hacker-foo.com/homebrew-comments.html 19:13:51 (ql:system-apropos "swank") will tell you 19:14:30 # 19:14:35 Is than not new enough? 19:14:38 is it common for SBCL to take up 4.5 GB of ram during make-host-1? 19:14:55 Ah, maybe I'm not actually using that version. 19:15:20 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:34 gonzojive: no 19:27:16 Xach: you use zpng no? 19:27:56 gonzojive1: I have 1GB of RAM, and I'm fine. 19:28:12 zc00gii: i'm not only the author, i'm also a user. 19:28:17 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-132.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:28:22 zc00gii: i don't often use it directly, though. i mostly use it through vecto. 19:28:34 Xach: oh you're the creator :P 19:28:44 Xach: maybe you can help me answer this question 19:28:49 *Xach* will surely try 19:29:38 how's it work that when you set the rgba colors from DATA-ARRAY, that it still edits the class you used it on? 19:29:54 there are no pointers in lisp, so I am quite confused. 19:30:35 zc00gii: you are half right 19:30:39 You're quite confused! 19:31:24 zc00gii: do you mean how do updates to a vector affect the instance from which the vector was obtained? 19:34:15 -!- segv [~mb@p4FC1A49F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: segv] 19:34:52 -!- Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:37 *Xach* has bad news for Fare re 2.007 (it breaks iolib and other things) 19:36:47 zc00gii: in C++ parlance, most variables in lisp are references 19:39:19 oh 19:39:24 eheh 19:41:09 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:42:43 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-9-217.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:50 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-175-177.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 19:44:54 rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-175-177.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:56 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:29 Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 19:46:32 Hi 19:46:46 Sikander: Hi 19:47:01 A friend of mine asked me a question regarding lisp I couldn't answer. So I thought I'd ask here. 19:47:46 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 19:48:29 Why do articles claim that "building the program up towards the problem" is so special in lisp? What I mean is, the fact that functions defined by the lisper are no different from lisp itself, is that so different from defining functions in C and becoming part of the language? What's the difference? 19:49:00 (using C here as an example, could be any other language) 19:49:03 Sikander: lisp has syntactic abstraction too. 19:50:08 Yes, so I'm not well-versed in the computer language sciences, and neither is my friend, so this won't really help. 19:50:20 Well, then who cares what you or your friend thinks? 19:50:23 :D 19:50:27 Good point 19:50:34 He doesn't know, and just asked me 19:50:39 Just say "Lisp users aren't smug. They're just better." 19:50:43 :D 19:50:53 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:01 (incf xach) 19:51:13 Sikander: it can be hard to add e.g. new control flow structures to C in a way that is natural and normal. 19:51:24 Sikander: but it's natural and normal to do things like that in Lisp 19:51:25 He was curious about this whole thing. I explained to him about how when you write lisp, you basically write the ast 19:51:52 that makes it sound more mystical than it actually is. 19:52:17 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:33 which means, you can write insane things like format and loop 19:53:30 LiamH: Did you make any progress? 19:53:47 Does "building the program up towards the problem" also mean bottom-up programming? 19:54:10 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755f3f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:37 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:54:57 -!- mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has left #lisp 19:57:10 khrum42 [~khrum42@2001:a60:f05d:1::dead] has joined #lisp 19:57:37 Does anyone know if climacs is still being worked on? 19:57:59 last news item on the website is from 2008... 19:58:19 Sikander: with macros you have yet another tool in the toolbox for trying to write what you mean when solving a problem. 19:58:20 Xach: has someone made that t-shirt? "Lisp users aren't smug. They're just better." 19:58:34 gigamonkey: was recently in the news as SF's unofficial motto, I think. 19:58:48 SF? 19:58:56 the city. 19:59:41 Ah, presumably with Lisp replaced by something else. 19:59:51 Otherwise, that'd be a funny city motto. 20:00:23 or people in SF really like lisp 20:00:28 Sikander: no, I looked at integrating FSBV into CFFI though! Have you pushed your patch on the randomness? 20:01:43 LiamH: Not yet. I thought to hold off on it until I could run some other tests. When I push it, should I make a new branch, just in case? 20:02:07 Which flavour of emacs is generally preferred here? 20:02:29 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-175-177.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 20:02:36 Sikander: The One True Emacs. 20:02:37 20:02:42 fe[nl]ix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/asdf/+bug/627023 is related to an iolib package issue triggered by asdf and alexandria both exporting APPENDF 20:02:47 There can be only one...? 20:03:03 *rtoym* uses xemacs for historical reasons. 20:03:14 *gigamonkey* likes GNU emacs for present-day reasons. 20:03:30 gigamonkey: http://sfist.com/2010/04/08/photo_du_jour_611.php 20:03:41 gigamonkey: which is The One True Emacs? GNU emacs? 20:03:53 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:03:57 pardon my ignorance regarding emacs-related things... 20:04:11 Sikander: yeah. Though, of course, you can find heretics who will disagree. 20:04:41 There's also sxemacs, which I've never used. 20:05:07 Isn't there an emacs that just uses common lisp and is complete (unlike climacs)? 20:05:23 Sikander: the lispworks editor is an example 20:05:24 Hemlock. Sort of. 20:05:25 Or rather, is written in common lisp 20:05:28 Yeah. But you need a Symbolics Lisp Machine to run it. ;-) 20:06:55 Hmm... I wanted to leave my safe haven called Vim and venture out into emacs land 20:07:19 I still want to write a vi editor in common lisp, but it's a rather large task to take up by myself. 20:07:37 jmbr [~jmbr@82.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:08:28 and while vim is great, writing lisp in it may be a bit more difficult than in emacs, with slime. 20:09:18 Does anyone have experience with vip mode in emacs? 20:09:25 i thoroughly enjoy writing lisp in vim using slimv and a few of my own mappings 20:10:20 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:10:47 Yeah, nekthuth, slimv etc are great. But I recently looked over the shoulder of a friend who uses emacs with slime, and it seems more useful 20:11:37 there are some things I miss with slimv 20:11:50 like automatically seeing which arguments a function takes when writing a function call 20:12:04 Yes, that's one of the things I saw, which seem pretty good. 20:13:00 I started looking at the climacs code, learning from it and seeing if it would be possible to make a vi in CL, that can also connect to slime. 20:13:23 i would never use a vi, though 20:13:33 full vim or i'll just hop over to emacs 20:13:49 What do you like about vim that's not in vi? 20:14:10 iirc vim has a swank client 20:15:39 I mean, if we had a vi in CL, the "improved" parts could be added with CL afterwards, no? 20:15:56 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:16:07 Sikander: multiple undo 20:16:12 tons of things 20:17:12 zc00gii: do you mean how do updates to a vector affect the instance from which the vector was obtained? 20:17:17 Xach: yeah, that 20:17:33 sorry, sister had to hop on the computer to order stuff 20:17:49 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 20:18:41 So I did manage to write ed in CL using flexichain (mostly just for fun and learning). I could continue with a vi(m)-like editor in CL that, instead of vimscript, uses CL. 20:18:45 type coercion ? 20:19:04 But apparently, there's not much interest in such a thing. 20:19:07 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:22 i'm just saying I wouldn't be interested 20:19:31 there would probably be some interested people around 20:19:54 Sikander: why not just use vimpulse.el? 20:20:20 Sikander: Or maybe contribute a vim mode for hemlock? 20:20:40 drewc: Dunno, don't have emacs :D I'll install it and try vimpulse.el. I also saw there's a vip mode in emacs as well. 20:20:50 rtoym: Is hemlock being actively maintained? 20:20:58 zc00gii: because the vector the instance refers to, and the vector it returns (the one you can modify), are the same object, and changing it is visible to whoever has a way to refer to it (e.g. via a variable binding or by looking for it via an instance's slot) 20:21:00 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-73-35.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:21:29 Sikander: Viper is almost Vi, Vimpulse add vim-y features. They served me well when i was making the transition from text-editing to lisp programming. 20:21:49 Sikander: Well, the original hemlock is not, but portable hemlock might be. 20:21:55 drewc: Ah, ok. I'll try it out, thanks 20:21:55 Sikander: portable hemlock is active 20:22:10 -!- rrice [~rrice@oh-67-76-18-254.sta.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:22:13 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 20:22:14 katerbau [~axel@xdsl-81-173-149-200.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:22:15 Sikander: best advice i can give is : learn to use emacs ;) 20:22:29 drewc: The nice thing of climacs, I thought, was the use of the efficient flexichain 20:22:57 drewc: Yeah. I got used to many incredibly efficient things in vi(m), like text navigation with hjkl, though. 20:23:04 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:23:07 *drewc* plays both piano and guitar pretty well, but doesn't try to use piano voicings on the guitar, and doesn't do bendy blues leads on the piano 20:23:25 heheh 20:23:26 Sikander: stop editing text! start editing structure 20:23:44 drewc: I meant, in general 20:23:44 -!- katerbau [~axel@xdsl-81-173-149-200.netcologne.de] has left #lisp 20:23:55 minion: tell Sikander about paredit 20:23:55 Sikander: look at paredit: a set of Emacs commands, with a minor mode for convenient access to them, for editing balanced S-expressions and a number of higher-level operations on S-expressions, at ; see also the #paredit channel 20:24:08 minion: tell Sikander about redshank 20:24:08 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``redshank''. 20:24:11 paredit is mostly supported in slimv btw 20:24:29 http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/redshank/ 20:24:29 actually it is a separate plugin bundled with slimv, it can be used separately 20:24:46 drewc: Yeah, there's a vimscript that allows easy and efficient s-exxpression editing, with joining/splitting, balanced parentheses etc 20:25:04 drewc: What OliverUv said 20:25:24 Is there an easy way to discover which symbols are being imported from another package? 20:25:36 austinh: yes. 20:25:39 Sikander: does it use your effecient hjkl to navigate sexps? 20:25:55 austinh: do-external-symbols will let you iterate over them and do what you like. there's also a loop iteration option for it. 20:26:02 thanks Xach 20:26:13 drewc: I hereby declare redshank insane 20:26:14 :D 20:26:22 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.73.103.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:34 Ok, screw this, I'm going to try emacs 20:26:36 austinh: (loop for sym being each external-symbol of 'some-package collect sym) 20:26:38 Sikander: i love the refactoring features, use them all the time :) 20:26:53 drewc: You already sold me on it :) 20:27:11 Xach: interesting, thanks for the info :) 20:27:24 Stand back, I'm coming over to The Dark Side! 20:28:02 Sikander: lisp is the Ashla ;) 20:28:19 austinh: I'd love to show you quicklisp, but right now I have to run. If you're interested at all, hop on #quicklisp sometime. 20:28:20 emacs is the light saber :) 20:28:31 Xach: ok, thanks 20:29:29 Well, I'm getting me a PURPLE light saber! 20:30:18 Xach: thanks for the notice 20:30:26 I'll fix that in ~7.4 minutes 20:30:41 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host85-186-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:30:48 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-41-108.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:32:05 Just out of curiosity, for when I want to customise emacs, how different is el from cl? 20:33:20 solussd [~solussd@rrcs-76-79-44-2.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:36 Sikander: just different enough to be frustrating :) 20:34:20 Sikander: elisp is more like maclisp 20:34:30 d'oh! 20:35:48 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:36:22 el is dynamic only, others are both 20:36:28 in scoping 20:37:49 Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has joined #lisp 20:38:03 *drewc* hands homie a lexical-let 20:38:04 Sikander: however, both are lisp-2, so there's some hope. 20:38:31 Sikander: as long as you (require 'cl), you can write in a subset of emacs lisp that is a subset of Common Lisp. 20:38:34 I find I miss packages more than lexical closures 20:38:36 Sikander: there is a common lisp that runs on elisp 20:38:44 The dynamic scoping is often not a problem in practice. 20:38:54 It is 20:38:57 emacs-cl ; would need some love. 20:39:16 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4AB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:34 Depends on what is often anyway, you *can* get screwed by it, badly 20:39:35 Actually, a port of slime and paredit to climacs or hemlock would be real nice. ;-) 20:39:53 and finding out the root of cause will make you be purely annoyed for the rest of the day 20:40:03 Yes. 20:40:45 Okok, I've got emacs installed. Let's see what all the fuss is about... ;) 20:41:01 Sikander: once launched, type C-h t 20:41:28 Sikander: the fuss is more about slime than emacs IMO. I'm still not a big (gnu) emacs fan, but i love slime! :) 20:42:32 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:42:33 moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 20:44:59 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:45:24 Does emacs have marks, to easily navigate to a previously marked point in the file? 20:45:33 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has left #lisp 20:45:41 Yes 20:45:42 Ask #emacs :) 20:45:55 ah, sorry 20:46:06 Though the answer to "Does emacs have..." is nearly always "yes" 20:48:48 It's that awesome?! ;) 20:48:56 haha 20:49:14 Sikander: if everything compiles and the same number of tests pass, push to master. One way to achieve that is to comment out the FFT tests. 20:50:00 LiamH: Ok, will do. I want to do a bit more testing to be sure I nailed it down. 20:50:33 LiamH: Are you waiting for it? 20:51:12 Sikander: not really, but I'd like to have it. 20:53:38 -!- khrum42 [~khrum42@2001:a60:f05d:1::dead] has left #lisp 20:54:20 LiamH: Sure. I have to clean up a bit (I made quite a mess trying to find the problem), make sure everything is fine, and push it to master, probably tomorrow. 20:54:34 Sikander: OK, thanks. 20:55:00 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 20:55:38 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Client Quit] 20:56:29 Ok, it's getting a bit late. Goodnight 20:56:45 -!- Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Time to sleep...] 20:58:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:58:41 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-9-217.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:04:35 -!- gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Must work.] 21:05:39 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:10:05 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 21:13:09 francogrex [~user@109.130.46.71] has joined #lisp 21:16:49 This is probably implementation specific about declarations but anyone who uses ECL may give a hint? http://paste.lisp.org/display/114063 21:16:51 In SBCL code that's being cross compiled, if a reference to the function SB!XC:FOO is encountered, is it converted into a reference to CL:FOO? 21:18:20 yes 21:18:29 have you read the paper that I pointed you at yet? 21:19:08 the one about SBCL's build process? yes but i should keep it handier 21:20:55 rpg [~rpg@vbn.0067207.lodgenet.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:22 -!- bozhidar` [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-120.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:30:55 I would like to know why it doesn't enter the debugger when (sum-double {integer} {integer}) ? 21:32:10 -!- sentry [~sentry@197.sub-75-196-207.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:03 probably because of this: ecl_make_doublefloat((double)(V3)+(double)(V4)) it's casting to double anything input; it shouldn't 21:35:18 where are the sb!xc exports defined? 21:36:31 sb!xc has the same exports as cl 21:38:24 hmm, I loaded make-host-1.lisp with SLIME and I don't see an sb-xc:ensure-generic-function export 21:41:48 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@89.204.137.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:41:56 actually, sb!xc is a slightly complicated package 21:42:00 Jabberwockey [~jens@89.204.137.172] has joined #lisp 21:42:02 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 21:42:11 there's some scary shadowing as well as some (but not all) cl package exports 21:42:28 you probably need to grep for sb-xc, too 21:46:27 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 21:46:57 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 21:47:09 francogrex: Declarations are promises by you to the compiler, not the other way around. 21:47:47 -!- heaumer [~heaumer@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:49 fstorm [~blah@li107-250.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:50 Python's declarations-as-assertions spoil people :D 21:47:57 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:48 heaumer [~heaumer@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:40 -!- moocow is now known as holycow 21:53:25 aha! defun-load-or-cload-xcompiler.lisp is where a lot of the sb!xc tricks are 21:53:56 dlowe: Does emacs have threads? 21:54:02 acieroid [~acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:40 emacs-dwim: I said "nearly" O pedantic one 21:54:45 dlowe: But then who would make a kitchen sink out of thread. 21:55:33 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@36-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 21:56:36 -!- solussd [~solussd@rrcs-76-79-44-2.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: solussd] 21:57:40 -!- fstorm [~blah@li107-250.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:59:47 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:24 rtoym: Doesn't SBCL assert delarations, optimised safe, at least? 22:00:55 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:58 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-84-137.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 22:02:12 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-82-7.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:37 sbcl does, yes (with a couple of niggling exceptions that are considered missing features/bugs) 22:07:00 gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:15 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-89-56.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:40 Xach: I tried to used buildapp to build a server and when I ran it I got "Lutex assertion failure, file "pthread-lutex.c", line 148" 22:07:45 This is on OS X. 22:07:54 Is this perhaps due to threads not being enabled by default? 22:08:12 And if so, is it because I built buildapp with a non-threaded SBCL or something else? 22:09:09 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.46.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:53 gigamonkey: never had a problem like that 22:10:04 gigamonkey: are you embedding swank? 22:10:14 Seems that was maybe it. 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