00:02:20 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:56 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:10 rfg [~rfg@host81-102-110-35.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:12 -!- rfg [~rfg@host81-102-110-35.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:04:37 -!- gigamonkey [~user@c-24-7-84-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:04:43 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:06:43 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 00:09:39 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.3] has joined #lisp 00:14:40 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:05 This is interesting 00:15:11 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:15:11 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 00:15:15 3/6 produces 1/2 00:15:25 while 3/6.0 produces 0.5 00:15:25 sykopomp: glad to hear it worked out. :) 00:15:43 any reason for that behaviour 00:19:06 owned: yes 00:19:24 owned: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/12_aab.htm 00:19:34 owned: try to run (type-of x) with each of the numbers as argument, that gives you the types 00:19:37 -!- srolls [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:43 and Xach is way faster than me with the documentation :) 00:20:40 owned: mind you, you can perfectly calculate with the rational (eg (1+ 3/6) or (+ 2 4/7)) 00:21:26 mephisto_ [~mephisto@186-45-38-234.dynamic.tstt.net.tt] has joined #lisp 00:21:33 I am still the first pages on gentle lisp 00:21:46 *in 00:22:19 owned: you know the way most programming languages have integers and floats? 00:22:29 What I got is if the input to the function is floating the result will be in floating 00:22:36 yup 00:22:59 lisp handles the things + rationals and such 00:23:01 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-50-81.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:23:02 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:23:28 1/2 is an exact number, whereas a float is an approximation of 1/2 (something close to 0.5) 00:23:40 ok 00:24:05 -!- retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:24:06 the rest is how you interpreted the hyperspec :) 00:24:21 retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has joined #lisp 00:24:45 So the first result was left in fraction and the second one was converted to close 0.6 is due to the input in second function is a float 00:25:00 correct 00:25:04 thanks 00:25:17 you're most welcome 00:25:29 enjoy your trip to lisp-land :) 00:26:38 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 00:27:50 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:12 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:29:17 Kerrick2 [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 00:30:38 madnificent: floating point can represent 0.5 exactly 00:31:05 12-7 is a symbol 00:31:07 not 0.1 though ;) 00:31:16 where as 12/7 is a number 00:31:22 why is that 00:31:42 owned: 1/2 is literal syntax for a real number. 00:32:21 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.13.12] has joined #lisp 00:32:23 adeht: depends on the internal representation of the number, I forgot what the IEEE standard uses for floats. 00:32:31 adeht: it is certainly possible that it works perfectly :) 00:32:45 adeht: I should've taken a better one, .17 or something of the likes :) 00:32:51 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.13.12] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:08 0.5 is exact provided (FLOAT-RADIX 0.5) => 2 00:33:09 sykopomp: The author says "integer: A sequence of digits 0 through 9, optionally preceded by a plus or minus sign". 00:33:17 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.13.12] has joined #lisp 00:33:30 owned: correct 00:33:41 -1 and +2 are integers. 00:33:51 7-11 is a symbol 00:34:03 right. 00:34:05 owned: try (- 7 11) 00:34:49 7-11 is a convenience store 00:35:06 -7 11 will be integer right 00:35:18 -7 and 11 are individual integers. 00:35:30 owned: that will return 11 00:35:53 owned: -7 and 11 are evaluated separetely, as if they both were a function. Then the last one is returned 00:36:04 ok 00:36:12 owned: lisp uses the prefix syntax consistently, try (- 7 11) 00:36:34 when you mean try 00:37:08 you mean to try in the editor 00:37:19 owned: yup, just enter it in the repl and evaluate it :) 00:37:29 owned: use the repl, luke! 00:37:33 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-249-99.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:37 *Fare* releases ASDF 2.006. 00:37:46 Ok 00:37:54 I am really new to this editor 00:38:00 what is repl and luke 00:38:03 owned: don't be scared :) 00:38:08 owned: the repl is the read eval print loop 00:38:16 ok 00:38:24 it is the thing where you can enter lisp forms (like (+ 1 2) ) and which gives you a result 00:38:28 interactively 00:38:31 ok 00:38:33 let me try 00:39:58 ok 00:40:20 I tried ( + 12) 00:40:24 it gave me 12 00:40:32 when I try (-7 11) 00:40:51 illegal argument in function position -7 00:40:57 yes, (-7 11) is invalid 00:40:58 in (-7 11) 00:41:02 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-154-87.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:07 (- 7 11) 00:41:22 ok 00:41:49 It is waiting for input 00:41:54 owned: always be sure te separate each argument with one or more spaces 00:42:00 ok 00:42:06 owned: then you probably didn't close a paren 00:42:17 (- 7 11) 00:42:37 owned: some statement before the current one, maybe? 00:42:56 ok 00:42:59 cleard it up 00:43:05 it gave me -4 00:43:14 if I can still count, then that is correct 00:43:33 You said it will output 11 00:43:39 return 11 00:43:39 owned: enter -7 11 00:43:45 without parens 00:43:53 ok 00:44:13 It gave me 2 outputs 00:44:17 -7 and 11 00:44:22 induvidually 00:44:48 seriously? did you enter them both on one line? 00:44:52 yes 00:44:57 -7 11 00:45:29 then I gave a bad example, it seems (strange) 00:45:40 Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:40 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:45:40 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 00:45:56 either case, it doesn't try to substract 11 from 7 or anything like that. It just interprets both values 00:46:05 http://paste.lisp.org/display/113845 00:47:01 ok 00:47:05 I got the point 00:47:41 What I was asking is 22/7 is a Integer and not a symbol 00:47:56 while 7-11 is a symbol 00:48:26 22/7 can be read as a rational, lisp prints it out in the same way 00:48:39 just the same as it will read "foobar" as a string containing foobar 00:48:47 sure 00:48:48 and as it will read 3.2 as a float 00:49:11 why Lisp gets / operator while not - 00:49:21 however 7-11 isn't the way lisp displays any number 00:49:30 ok 00:49:35 22/7 isn't using the / operator 00:49:36 so, it assumes that it must be a symbol of some sort 00:49:39 it's a single data item 00:50:03 owned: so the / isn't really an operator, it's a representation 00:50:08 ok 00:50:12 (/ 22 7) => 22/7 00:50:21 22/7 is more like a rational number 00:50:38 rather 22 operator 7 00:50:43 exactly 00:50:43 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:50:48 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:50:50 got it 00:50:54 owned: 22/7 is in itself the number, (/ 22 7) has 22/7 as a result of the devision of 22 by 7 00:51:16 ok 00:51:19 got it 00:51:22 \o/ 00:52:25 so 7-11 will be symbol while (7 - 11) will actually get evaluated 00:53:06 (7 - 11) will evaluate as an error, because 7 isn't a function, macro, or special form 00:53:08 Dodek [~dodek@sundance.6irc.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:34 ok 00:53:42 So how to compute 7 -11 00:53:59 Speaking of rationals, are there any published libraries that enable reading or printing mixed numbers, so 22/7 => 3+1/7? 00:54:48 -!- Kerrick2 [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 00:56:48 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 00:57:18 ( - 7 11) is what 7-11 00:57:35 (- 7 11) subtracts 11 from 7, yes 00:58:04 so operator goes first then first input and second input 00:58:21 for 11 + 4 (+ 11 4) 00:58:29 ... and third input and so on, yes 00:58:33 ok 00:58:34 nice 00:59:00 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:04 so (- 7 11 28) => -32 01:00:03 Anarch: not that I know of, but *you* could write such a system :) 01:00:07 nilboog [~null@unaffiliated/nilboog] has joined #lisp 01:00:29 Anarch: it needn't be extremely hard 01:01:11 housel: so the first and second get evaluated and the result will be evaluated with final input 01:01:24 but - will be still the operand 01:01:31 for 2 evaluation 01:01:51 nice 01:02:05 clhs - 01:02:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a__.htm 01:02:19 That page describes everything about how - works 01:02:21 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:03:28 got it thanks 01:03:35 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 01:03:38 -!- retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:03:41 Thanks for your time 01:04:35 It makes sense that You shouldn't believe what you read 01:04:38 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:04:52 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:05:11 like someone in the article says comp.lisp guys are very up tight 01:05:25 media is always corrupted 01:06:38 madnificent: A fine answer, thanks :). I just wanted to check it hadn't been done already. 01:07:10 owned: depends on the amount of traffic and the questions here. Be sure to read the book and see if you can find your answer there. If not, just ask :) 01:07:17 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:07:32 Anarch: I don't know of any implementations, but you may be better off asking it at a time when more people are here 01:07:43 ok 01:07:45 sure 01:07:49 Anarch: if you want to go overkill, you could check out maxima... I haven't used it, but it probably supports that syntax too 01:07:50 madnificent: 01:09:22 madnificent: Interesting thought, Maxima hadn't occurred to me. Anyway, gotta go. 01:09:35 -!- Anarch [~w3@elrond.hsl.washington.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:14:29 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:15:39 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 01:16:09 -!- Kae [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16:41 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 01:21:56 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 01:22:39 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-252-36.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:56 timor [~timor@port-92-195-252-36.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 01:25:19 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-224.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:25:46 adeht [void@91.121.18.93] has joined #lisp 01:25:52 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:28:51 I am trying (SYMBOLP 1/2) 01:28:56 it throws NIL 01:29:11 but when I try (SYMBOLP 7-11) 01:29:16 it is giving error 01:30:09 Is there a way to test 7-11 with SYMBOLP 01:30:37 abugosh [~Adium@pool-96-255-9-139.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:14 owned: don't use 7-11 it will confuse you :) 01:31:17 owned: if you want to pass the symbol 7-11 to symbolp, you need to quote it 01:31:29 ok 01:31:44 madnificent: I get over the fact of 7-11 01:31:48 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@202.183.154.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31:49 owned: in essense, 7-11 is the place for which you can set a value (for the variable with name 7-11) and a function (for the function with name 7-11) 01:31:51 owned: otherwise it is considered a reference to a variable.. which is unbound in your case and so signals an error 01:32:13 owned: 7-11 could also describe a symbol, in which case you should quote it '7-11 01:32:21 ok 01:32:23 owned: in essense, 7-11 behaves just like foobar 01:32:34 just like a variable 01:32:42 owned: yes! 01:32:42 owned: it's a good idea to start reading a Lisp book before asking questions here 01:32:43 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rread] 01:32:56 adeht: I am reading and asking 01:33:06 I am doing execrises 01:33:40 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 01:33:47 Does it make sense adeht 01:34:04 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:07 rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:25 owned: does what make sense? 01:34:44 asking when got questions while reading 01:35:08 yes 01:35:31 ok 01:36:58 -!- salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:41:06 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 01:42:02 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:05 seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:58 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 01:45:11 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:47:50 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:48:02 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:48:02 -!- salva_ is now known as salva 01:48:09 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Night] 01:48:40 -!- phf [~user@eris.glyf.org] has left #lisp 01:49:12 Fare: you around? 01:51:21 Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 01:52:47 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@202.183.154.31] has joined #lisp 01:53:41 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:56:03 and [536530d4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.101.48.212] has joined #lisp 01:57:02 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:12 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:58:12 -!- salva_ is now known as salva 02:03:01 pers [~user@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:03:12 -!- pers [~user@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 02:04:05 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:05:03 -!- and [536530d4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.101.48.212] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:05:22 cl-irc [~cl-irc@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:27 -!- cl-irc [~cl-irc@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:06:55 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.74.155] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:33 xinming [~hyy@115.223.131.83] has joined #lisp 02:09:38 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-252-36.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:09:39 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 02:11:32 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:11:32 -!- salva_ is now known as salva 02:15:25 yes 02:15:29 -!- jaiball [~justin@c-76-119-131-178.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:15:45 Fare: I'm having some ASDF dependency trouble, would you mind helping me out? 02:16:01 This would be using sbcl. 02:16:21 sure 02:16:26 which version of ASDF? 02:16:32 (asdf:asdf-version) 02:16:46 "2.003" 02:17:06 ok. What's the issue? 02:18:15 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 02:18:44 The issue is described in detail on comp.lang.lisp with the subject "ASDF question". I don't remember if you post there, and if not, I can put it into a paste bin for you to see. 02:19:53 -!- em is now known as emma 02:20:05 But basically, it comes down to system B which depends on system A should be recompiled when A's sources change and I (require :B). 02:20:43 That's a long-standing bug. 02:21:09 rpg decided to explicitly not fix it when he fixed the corresponding bug for modules inside a system. 02:21:57 because of "backward compatibility" issues. 02:22:11 Well, if you are keeping a tally, I think it should be fixed. :) The use case is if I mess with the library, then the example applications should auto-recompile. 02:22:32 many people like being able to update, say, CLX, without having to recompile EVERY F*ING DAMN THING in their CLIM application. 02:22:54 I think they are wrong. 02:23:02 I also think it should be fixed. 02:23:26 FWIW, I agree. I got bit my changing macro definitions in the library and thinking my applications got recompiled like they were supposed to be. 02:23:54 please insert a comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/asdf/+bug/479522 02:24:31 Must I register to add a comment? 02:24:43 dunno. 02:25:08 Ok, would :force T solve my problem? I don't know what that is. 02:25:11 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-96-255-9-139.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:26:01 *sigh* sometimes I hate the web. I try to log in and get "Invalid OpenID transaction" 02:26:09 well, try to register, that is. :) 02:27:19 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 02:27:35 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 02:28:03 Fare: I'll try to add a comment, and thank you for your answer! For me, it is sufficient as I just have to document the behavior in the manual I wrote for my product. 02:32:35 abugosh [~Adium@pool-96-255-9-139.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:35 what product is that that includes ASDF in its API? 02:34:27 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-154-87.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:35:33 Ah, I don't include ASDF in what I wrote. The deal is that I wrote a library, that's the product. The example programs use the library. When I change the library, then requiring an example programs package should recompile both. It is intended the user create their own package which uses the library I wrote. So if they happen to fix a bug or something in the library, they'd have the same problem. 02:36:13 So, I suppose technically ASDF is part of the interface, but not in the normal way you'd interpret that idea. 02:36:14 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:36:35 It is simply in the "the application author makes a system that :depends-on the library I wrote". 02:37:43 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 02:40:01 Fare: In practice, the user shouldn't be messing with the library, but since this is open source, if someone happens to and send back a patch, I don't want them to discover a terrible surprise during developing their patch. 02:40:23 davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:02 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:43:15 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-81-207.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:44 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:46:03 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 02:46:16 -!- Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-3-84.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:48:22 (let boredom ((event '()) (degree 0)) (if (not (null? (force (eval 'event the-environment)))) #f (boredom event (+ degree 1)))) 02:50:24 Fare: It seems the asdf2 docs don't describe the options to asdf:oos. Shouldn't there be some kind of summary for this? Or did I miss it completely? 02:50:33 tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.55.37] has joined #lisp 02:51:24 hi, does anyone know of any video tutorial/lecture specific to Common Lisp? I found many interesting things for Scheme but not for Common Lisp 02:52:00 Also what does the :force option actually do? Rebuild everything and the dependencies too? 02:55:40 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:55 (define lisp (letrec ((common-lisp (read (- 'answer scheme))) (scheme (read (- 'answer common-lisp)))) (common-lisp)))) 02:57:38 (display "explain please") 02:58:47 i know my scheme is shitty and my lisp is non-existant but i want to know if lisp is what i want 02:59:04 *common lisp 03:01:23 Fare: Comment posted. Thanks! 03:01:40 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:01:58 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 03:01:59 -!- khrum42 [~khrum42@ppp-93-104-68-49.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:02:52 khrum42 [~khrum42@ppp-93-104-68-49.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 03:03:16 teurastaja: Only you can know if lisp is what you want. But if you know scheme, lisp isn't too different. 03:04:03 i wouldnt ask if scheme had enough libraries for things like networking 03:04:29 what is primitive function 03:04:49 teurastaja: Lisp has networking libraries. 03:05:08 primitive means not combined, atomic 03:05:33 what kind? 03:05:51 enough networking for most used protocols? 03:06:17 teurastaja: I guess so. I don't do much networking. 03:06:21 minion: usocket 03:06:22 usocket: usocket is an MIT-licensed sockets networking library providing a portability layer encapsulating implementation specific sockets programming details. http://www.cliki.net/usocket 03:06:28 minion: iolib 03:06:29 iolib: I/O(mainly networking) library containing: a BSD sockets library, a DNS resolver and an I/O multiplexer that supports select(2), epoll(4) and kqueue(2). http://www.cliki.net/iolib 03:07:01 i which scheme had all those things 03:07:06 *wish 03:07:13 rtoym: If you happen to want to do more than a thin wrapper around sockets, then use IOLib if it will work on your lisp implementation. 03:07:34 *Fade* yawns and considers going home 03:07:44 is it longer to learn common lisp than scheme? 03:07:55 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:08:08 -!- khrum42 [~khrum42@ppp-93-104-68-49.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:08:09 teurastaja: I don't know. These are really vague questions. 03:08:11 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 03:08:11 teurastaja: Mu. Learn both. :) 03:08:26 teurastaja: 10k hours. 03:09:16 -!- TomJ- [~tomj@78.151.111.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:09:26 teurastaja: If you already are comfortable with Scheme, you could look at racket-lang.org (previously PLT Scheme). It has a bunch of libraries. 03:09:40 (I've never used it myself, though.) 03:10:05 teurastaja: when you say not combined 03:10:19 because common lisp is huge compared to scheme i dont want to start learning something as big as say.... c++ 03:10:22 Is that mean primitive fucntions wont combine 03:10:39 they will combine 03:10:59 teurastaja: You don't have to learn it all at once, you know. 03:11:02 theyre the basic uncombined building blocks for everything else in the language 03:11:05 teurastaja: Racket is much, much, _much_ bigger than Common Lisp. :) 03:11:28 thats why i never learned racket 03:11:34 common lisp ain't huge, it just has a lot of usefulness packed into it. :) 03:11:35 I read they are primitive functions 03:11:39 But, I'm out. afk. 03:11:40 functions written in c 03:11:48 psilord2 said it well enough :) 03:11:49 isn't the old joke that the scheme spec is shorter than the index to cltl2? 03:12:15 tl2? 03:12:15 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-opfksyuuohehmpza] has joined #lisp 03:12:25 teurastaja, many scheme implementations have all those things, too 03:12:31 minion: please tell teurastaja about cltl2 03:12:32 teurastaja: have a look at cltl2: "Common Lisp the Language, 2nd ed" is a book by Guy Steele that describes the state of Common Lisp as it was partway through the ANSI process. http://www.cliki.net/cltl2 03:12:51 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:12:57 owned: scheme (and common lisp) is so powerful you can program the entire language into itself 03:13:07 ok 03:13:13 teurastaja: you can do that in any language... 03:13:31 scheme and lisp just happen to have a bit of a fetish for metacircularity 03:13:46 and make it easier than other languages, too 03:13:46 primitive functions just mean they are not the result of combined functions 03:13:54 ok 03:14:23 sykopomp: try to do that in brainfuck 03:14:53 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 03:15:57 teurastaja: http://livoris.de/projects/bfxp it's been done 03:16:02 i just cant picture myself programming brainfuck in brainfuck 03:16:16 Good morning everyone! 03:16:21 what is brainfuck 03:16:23 mornin', beach 03:16:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck 03:16:53 'evening, beach. 03:17:07 teurastaja: pick one. Learn it. Write some damn software. 03:17:13 Only way to roll. 03:17:30 sykopomp: it was programmed in c.... 03:17:41 teurastaja: scroll down. Look at the 'interpreter' section. 03:18:17 holy fuck! 03:19:01 -!- nilboog [~null@unaffiliated/nilboog] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:19:13 brainfuck in brainfuck! 03:19:39 now that we've gotten past that -- I will recommend CL. Particularly because it's most ontopic. 03:19:46 dont tell me there is a hollyfuck language 03:19:46 and because it's my favorite language. 03:20:27 obviously most of us here feel that common lisp is pretty sweet. 03:20:43 I have to agree! 03:20:45 the people in #scheme probably have a different answer to this barrage of questions. 03:20:57 the difference, of course, is that people in #scheme have no taste. 03:21:03 try them both and see what fits you best. 03:21:21 the correct conclusion is obvious. 03:21:34 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:21:48 the basic building blocks of scheme and cl are largely the same. 03:22:08 cl has a huge built in set of functions, which is why people say it's 'large'.. 03:22:27 but at its base, it's a very concise language you can learn the rudiments of in a few weeks. 03:22:29 i as a novice schemer think scheme derives its beauty and power from simplicity 03:22:45 "beauty" and "power" are very hand-wavy concepts. 03:22:56 i read a beautiful mathematic answer to the scheme/lisp difference 03:23:11 teurastaja: SKI is more 'beautiful' than scheme. 03:23:20 teurastaja: and the Schemers were with you, right up until R6RS. ;-) 03:23:24 has anyone written a mapcar using pcall? 03:23:41 scheme is the intersection and common lisp is the union 03:24:05 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 03:24:19 PuffTheMagic: pcall? 03:24:20 at this point the conversatio will derail, so I suggest you do some homework and come back with better questions later. ;) 03:24:21 r6rs actually did good i think 03:24:39 teurastaja: fortunately for you, r6rs is offtopic in this channel! 03:25:00 PuffTheMagic: some kind of 'parallel call'? 03:25:18 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:25:24 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:25:41 r6rs acknowledges the need for more support and defines libraries for at least keeping them as a standard 03:25:56 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 03:26:01 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:26:01 -!- salva_ is now known as salva 03:26:21 sykopomp: scheme is lisp as is common lisp and the channels name is lisp 03:26:29 teurastaja: /topic 03:27:02 this channel is for Common Lisp. For discussion about scheme, try #scheme. 03:27:03 sykopomp, yeah pcall is a concurrency lib 03:27:06 teurastaja: you'll find that line of argumentation results in an unhappy ending. :D 03:27:20 PuffTheMagic: Seems pointless. MAPCAR is sequential. 03:27:46 well.. seems like a lot of people use mapcar when a loop could do the same thing 03:27:49 connection machine lisp implemented mapcar on xappings with parallel semantics. 03:27:49 i was asking for differences between scheme and common lisp is there a channel for that? 03:27:55 usually they need to do the same thing to a lot of data 03:28:07 and doing that does not need to be serial 03:28:14 PuffTheMagic: correct, but you can't replace MAPCAR with a parallel version, because it must be serial. 03:28:31 teurastaja: We'll be happy to discuss features of CL with you. Then you can ask #scheme for Scheme features and compare. 03:28:56 lol 03:29:06 then go on 03:29:16 PuffTheMagic: should be pretty easy to write something like that, though. Not sure how much of an advantage it would be in practice. 03:29:26 minion: Tell teurastaja about features of common lisp! 03:29:27 teurastaja: direct your attention towards features of common lisp: Features of Common Lisp, a one-page summary of what makes Common Lisp unique: http://abhishek.geek.nz/docs/features-of-common-lisp 03:29:37 i'm starting to think we're getting trolled. 03:29:58 Fade: That fact struck me a few minutes ago. :\ 03:30:21 I guess I wasn't here then so I haven't seen the signs quite yet. 03:30:35 sykopomp, well i dont want a parallel version mapcar... that was just an example... and i guess a bad one 03:30:58 PuffTheMagic: there's various libraries meant for making stuff like that easy. 03:31:03 Is there a term for when someone really isn't intending to troll but is nonetheless behaving exactly as a troll would. 03:31:04 ? 03:31:16 gigamonkey: Yes. I learned it last night. 03:31:17 I think that happens a lot around here. 03:31:24 It's called "Poe's Law". 03:31:31 lol 03:31:52 sentry [~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:53 To quote wikipedia: "Poe's law (religious fundamentalism)  "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humour, it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing."[5] named after Nathan Poe who formulated it on christianforums.com in 2005.[6]" 03:31:58 Heh. Not quite what I meant but it's something like that. 03:32:02 sykopomp, i know of the libs, i guess i wanted to know if anyone used those libs to make some common functions more parallel 03:32:04 maybe 03:32:11 as a drop in replace ment 03:32:20 maybe it doesn't apply as well as I'd like. 03:32:25 :( 03:32:27 i know i can just use pcall like its designed and replace the mapcars or what ever is there 03:32:36 I was thinking of "Duck Troll". As in "if it walks like a duck, ..." 03:32:46 PuffTheMagic: yes. it was done by Hillis et. al. at thinking machines in the late eighties. 03:32:55 gigamonkey: I *like* it! 03:33:01 And, "perhaps we're beeing duck-trolled." 03:33:03 gigamonkey: then it will be very slow, unsafe, but somehow be very popular and hip? 03:33:09 Fade, and it didnt take off? 03:33:25 (eqv? '(mapcar x) '(map (car x))) 03:33:29 Okay, beach, now to help me spread the meme! 03:33:34 thinking machines died unfortunately and too soon. 03:34:02 teurastaja: neither of those are valid calls in either scheme or CL. 03:34:04 gigamonkey: I'll definitely start using it here, because we do get more than our fair share. 03:34:04 clhs mapcar 03:34:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 03:34:17 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@109-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:34:30 it was a question 03:34:51 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-121-193.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 03:35:16 but yeah map misses an argument 03:35:24 i dont know for mapcar 03:35:34 what is it? 03:35:39 teurastaja: please follow the link. 03:36:12 Is some war is going 03:36:35 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-wntjofinptnoahls] has joined #lisp 03:37:08 ok so mapcar sounds like justmap 03:37:12 *just map 03:37:25 teurastaja: No they are different. 03:37:29 clhs map 03:37:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_map.htm 03:37:37 it sounds to me like you've made your decision. 03:37:51 me? 03:37:53 teurastaja: The map function works on arbitrary sequences and returns the sequence type of your choice. 03:38:31 i know about map 03:38:52 teurastaja: So why did you say that mapcar is the same as it? 03:39:03 but "#"s are being used everywhere and i dont know what they mean 03:39:10 *Fade* sighs 03:39:22 minion: pcl 03:39:23 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 03:39:41 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 03:39:50 that book will go a long way to answering any basic questions you have about common lisp, teurastaja 03:40:04 teurastaja: They indicate to the reader that a reader macro should be called. Read that book and you will find out. 03:40:05 teurastaja: you may want to lookup up 'Lisp-1 vs Lisp-2' as it is one of the big differences between Scheme and Common Lisp. 03:40:25 Fade: I think my troll verdict is official. 03:40:34 sykopomp: I agree! 03:40:37 troll? 03:40:43 /ignore 03:41:12 teurastaja: Google it. First hit. 03:41:42 i know whats a troll but are you saying im one? 03:42:21 asking vague questions and being argumentative about the answers you receive is trollish behaviour. 03:42:23 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:42:23 -!- salva_ is now known as salva 03:42:24 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-96-255-9-139.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:44:04 argumentative? like this? 03:45:03 yes im asking vague questions im trying to make an idea 03:45:14 i'm going to take this opportunity to leave the machine for the day. nite folks. 03:46:23 me too i feel unwelcomed 03:46:30 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable173.144-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 03:49:51 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 03:51:41 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:51:41 -!- salva_ is now known as salva 03:56:52 arquebus [~shintaro@201.160.3.219.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #lisp 04:02:05 -!- davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:29 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 04:02:50 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 04:03:40 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Client Quit] 04:04:10 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-12-62.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 04:06:10 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 04:07:00 Fade: Yes, that's an old joke -- and apparently some people take it as a serious requirement, hence the r7rs circus. 04:07:51 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:08:21 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:09:42 incandenza 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Would it be practical for us to replace clbuild by quicklisp in say two weeks, or do you not consider quicklisp ready for a general audience? 05:29:51 fengshaun [~armin@blk-138-43-181.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 05:30:37 hi, I want to learn common lisp and I'm looking for a free and recommended ebook. Where should I be looking at? 05:30:48 minion: tell fengshaun about pcl 05:30:49 fengshaun: direct your attention towards pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 05:31:10 minion: thanks! 05:31:11 np 05:31:25 oops, beach: thanks 05:31:34 Anytime! 05:32:00 OEP [~OEP@c-76-27-129-70.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:20 how is the library support, by the way? Large/small # of libraries? 05:32:40 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:32:44 fengshaun: You'll find libraries for most common things that people want to do. 05:33:01 hmmm good enough, thanks! 05:33:18 number of libraries hasn't really been a problem. I've found libraries for pretty much everything I've wanted done for me. 05:33:32 one issue that sometimes happens, though, is open source libraries that are either unfinished, and undocumented. 05:34:12 True. I find it best to come here and ask, because information like that is usually not available at the site of the library itself. 05:34:22 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-94-254.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:34:34 Especially when I have a choice between several libraries that do roughly the same thing. 05:34:38 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@o198-104.pubnet.titech.ac.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38:53 gonzojive [~red@128.12.169.254] has joined #lisp 05:40:28 beach: My memory from reading AMOP was that it advocated for 'just writing' the app first, and then building a protocol from what you had by factoring things around. 05:40:49 is this the case, or should I completely forget about data in the beginning? (that approach seems a bit odd) 05:41:11 Maybe it's something that becomes second-nature after you've gotten used to building around protocols. :\ 05:41:22 sykopomp: I think that depends a lot on who you are and how good an idea you have of what you want to do. 05:42:19 sykopomp: For instance, when I wrote the buffer protocol for Climacs, I probably went straight to the protocol, because I pretty much knew how it was going to look. 05:42:34 mmm 05:42:54 sykopomp: But now that I am working on CLIM3, I can't do that, because I don't have the right abstractions ready in my mind, so I do it the other way around. 05:43:11 but when you're just doing an exploratory prototype and don't really know what your API should look like, or what approaches you might take, it's better to have a crappy implementation first? 05:43:15 hmmmm 05:44:25 sykopomp: Yes, I find that having a crappy implementation helps me think clearly about what things *really* should look like. I'm not smart enough to design protocols by just thinking about the consequences without trying them out. 05:46:49 ldunn [~user@d110-32-145-146.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:47:13 that helps a lot. Thank you :) 05:47:26 -!- iNode [~pashelper@87.226.232.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:47:49 Sure. I see you are still baffled by this new discovery. :) 05:47:53 I feel a bit silly for getting so hung up on this. It reminds me of when I first started trying to do 'functional' programming in Lisp. I figured out what the basics of using LAMBDA were, and suddenly I was trying to write all my code as if side-effects didn't exist. 05:48:39 sykopomp: I think your reaction is quite normal and quite sane. We learn the limitations of things by pushing them to the extreme and then backing off. 05:48:40 which sort of fell apart as soon as I tried to apply it to code much more naturally expressed in terms of state. :\ 05:48:47 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:50 *sykopomp* nods. 05:50:07 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@219.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:50:20 -!- ldunn [~user@d110-32-145-146.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 05:50:20 ldunn [~user@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 05:51:21 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 05:55:02 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED16259.cable.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 05:55:18 -!- sentry [~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:23 sentry [~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:32 persi2 [~user@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 05:59:47 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 06:00:06 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:32 -!- Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:00:51 Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 06:02:32 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:04:04 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:55 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:22 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:35 -!- persi2 [~user@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 06:07:49 Snamich [~Snamich@75.128.11.42] has joined #lisp 06:08:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:08:53 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 06:08:55 Does anyone have any experience with the book Lisp: Style and Design? Is it still a worthwhile read or does something like PCL or PAIP fill the same role? 06:08:58 -!- sentry [~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:09:03 sentry [~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 06:09:30 I haven't read it. Is it available online? 06:09:32 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:09:46 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:10:28 Unfortunately not. 06:11:12 xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has joined #lisp 06:11:42 The only things I've really found about it are this http://lispm.dyndns.org/news?ID=NEWS-2006-05-28-1 and a discussion of it somewhere else I'd have to find the link to. 06:13:00 It certainly looks interesting. 06:13:50 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:16:14 pkhuong_: I was under impression that you wanted to define one sse-xor function that generated different instruction depending on arguments 06:16:42 pkhuong_: Unlike me who copied the C intrinsic interface and defined xor-ps xor-pd and xor-pi for floats, doubles and ints respectively 06:19:33 pkhuong_: Regarding runtime type tracking, I'm only proposing to do it for objects boxed in the heap, and at that use the flag only for type-of and printing. 06:20:43 pkhuong_: I much rather have results of FP ops print out as FP in the repl and debugger, since personally I'm mostly going to use SSE for straightforward FP loop vectorization. 06:21:50 pkhuong_: I'm fine with this type being determined by the last instruction/intrinsic used on the result; in fact that's how it currently works in my ECL contrib. 06:22:28 tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 06:22:42 -!- xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:27:46 xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has joined #lisp 06:28:27 psilord2 [~psilord@adsl-99-154-14-142.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:29 -!- psilord2 [~psilord@adsl-99-154-14-142.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 06:30:14 pkhuong_: One issue that I see with a polymorphic xor is deciding what to use in (sse-xor (sse-xor flt-val int-val) int-val) vs (sse-xor (sse-xor flt-val int-val) flt-val) for the inner xor 06:39:38 angavrilov: i'd first ping pkhuong and see if he's around 06:40:12 i think he wakes up in the US 06:46:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-12-62.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:47:04 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:47:41 iNode [~pashelper@87.226.232.46] has joined #lisp 06:53:45 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:54:12 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:54:54 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:57:38 -!- OEP [~OEP@c-76-27-129-70.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:58:48 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:58:54 Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has joined #lisp 06:59:35 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has quit [Client Quit] 06:59:57 Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has joined #lisp 07:02:31 good morning 07:02:50 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 07:05:09 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:06:17 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:07:15 -!- khrum42 [~khrum42@2001:a60:f05d:1::dead] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:08:19 -!- fengshaun [~armin@blk-138-43-181.eastlink.ca] has left #lisp 07:08:59 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:09:25 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:11:58 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:13:54 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:15:01 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-17-220.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:15:01 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-154-87.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:17:02 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[~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:46:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:51:07 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:53:54 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-6975.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 07:55:44 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.223.131.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:55:57 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:56:25 sentry [~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 07:56:36 pers4 [~user@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 07:58:40 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:00:17 -!- sentry [~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:28 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A20C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:26 free_thinker [~willijar@134.151.144.246] has joined #lisp 08:17:50 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-5-203.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 08:19:28 Dousan [~dae@77.49.14.22.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 08:19:37 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-64-251.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:21:44 red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has joined #lisp 08:21:46 good morning, i am implementing the definition of "missionaries and cannibals problem" with best first search algorithm. I represent every state as a list (3 3 1 0 0). 08:23:58 i have implemented a function that from a list of lists, removes an element( a list ). But when i execute it i does not remove it. http://pastebin.ca/1924948 08:25:14 when a give the remove-state function a list of lists and an element ( list ) , at the listener, it removes it. The problem is when i execute it in the Best first search function. 08:25:44 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:25:44 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:26:22 <_3b> Dousan: your code is hard to read (or that pastebin is broken)... too many newlines and strange indentation 08:26:27 <_3b> also, why prog1 everywhere? 08:27:30 <_3b> and use destructuring-bind or something rather than a big list of first, second, etc in LET 08:27:32 _3b... i know, it's pastebin's fault. 08:27:52 <_3b> use the one in the channel topic then 08:28:08 sorry it is my first time 08:29:10 to you want me to re-post it? 08:29:17 <_3b> you don't need to quote T 08:29:19 Dousan: that would definitely help 08:29:33 one moment 08:29:36 <_3b> yeah, a cleaner paste would make it much easier to read :) 08:30:37 <_3b> that bunch of similar funstions at the start makes me think you missed some chance for abstraction somewhere 08:31:29 <_3b> use WHEN or UNLESS instead of IF when there is only 1 branch 08:32:02 http://paste.lisp.org/display/113849 this is better 08:32:07 Can anyone recommend a good walk-through through javascript for a seasoned lisper? 08:32:39 <_3b> Dousan: still doublespaced, still poorly indented :/ 08:33:06 tcr: "The good parts" is ok 08:33:10 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:33:34 maybe its my editors fault? because i didn't put double newlines 08:33:54 Dousan: are you using windows? what's your editor? 08:34:10 tcr: I liked "the good parts" 08:34:20 i am using linux, the editor: geany. 08:34:21 tcr: also, start using jquery (: 08:35:23 we already do from what I know 08:35:28 <_3b> Dousan: should look more like http://paste.lisp.org/+2FUH/1 08:35:47 That's a book, it's not available online by chance is it? 08:36:39 ok:) 08:37:29 <_3b> (just for indentation that is, still needs the stuff mentioned before fixed) 08:37:47 <_3b> Dousan: don't use EQ for numbers 08:37:52 <_3b> use = or eql 08:38:00 tcr: then congratulations are in order. jquery is really a pleasure to work in (: 08:38:02 ok i will change it 08:38:32 tcr: I think there was an ebook edition available 08:39:38 <_3b> Dousan: it doesn't look like you ever use more than the first element of the results of sort-child, so why not just find that directly rather than sorting the whole list? 08:40:21 tcr: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596517748 has the ebook for $24. not ultra-cheap, but worth it, imho 08:40:30 -!- huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:40:35 (it's a style baseline like pcl is (-:) 08:41:37 <_3b> Dousan: the (push ... (first ...)) in create-successors seems odd, why not just (push ... successors) like the first one? 08:41:37 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:42:10 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-92-18-184.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:42:13 _3b... i implemented it like this because i was given the sort function 08:43:59 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-189-248.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:44:01 _3b... about the (push .. (first ...)) i removed (first... 08:44:01 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 08:44:08 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-17-220.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:44:56 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633514.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:47:35 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-92-18-184.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:49:19 maybe the types that are compared in remove-state, are different... i can not understand 08:49:40 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442238.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:52:40 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:59:02 _3b... i am sorry.. i forgot, in function state-member-of .. its a recursion, not a call to member function 08:59:47 but the problem remains 09:02:28 CL doesn't have member functions, normally. 09:03:41 -!- pers4 [~user@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:08 sentry [~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:47 Zhivago... yes, i have implemented one myself 09:05:09 -!- sentry [~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:22 sentry [~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 09:06:33 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:41 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-169-59.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:07:50 Why not use generic functions? 09:08:23 I did not know any generic function for this 09:08:29 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:08:30 *do no 09:08:31 t 09:09:21 Hmm, what problem are you trying to solve with member functions? 09:09:26 *_3b* suspects the 2 of you are using different definitions 09:09:27 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-189-248.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:10:41 if a have a list, i use this function to check if an element belongs to that list 09:10:41 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:11:03 <_3b> Dousan: why not use MEMBER? 09:11:04 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 09:11:22 <_3b> (and REMOVE for remove-state for that matter) 09:11:24 _3b... it didnt work with member 09:11:41 <_3b> did you tell it to use EQUALP? (or EQUAL) 09:11:44 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:12:25 -!- bandu is now known as coyo 09:12:37 _3b... i don't understand exactly what you mean 09:13:28 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@202.183.154.31] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 09:14:37 dousan: MEMBER will tell you if something is in a list. 09:15:20 Zhivago... yes i know, but i tried it, and it didnt work, that's why i implemented mine. 09:15:22 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-249-99.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:15:36 <_3b> clhs member 09:15:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_member.htm 09:16:10 Dousan: It is very likely that you just didn't supply the right test function. You should read the documentation on member to find out how to do that. 09:16:21 <_3b> (member goal-state state-successos :test 'equalp) 09:16:51 <_3b> and use - instead of _ to separate words in identifiers 09:18:24 you have right, i did not supply neither with a test function nor with a EQUAL* function. 09:18:49 dousan: It's a good idea to check out the keywords that a function accepts. 09:19:42 CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:20:00 ok 09:20:32 Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:22:24 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-88-117.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:22:38 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:23:05 -!- anair_84 [6295a92f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.149.169.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:24:14 (remove '(3 3 1 0 0) '((3 2 1 0 0) (3 3 1 0 0) (1 2 3 4 5) (3 3 1 0 0))) I execute this, but the given element was not removed 09:24:28 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25:54 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 09:26:42 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-191-215.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:28:27 I wonder which of the standard equality predicates should first switch from eq to comparing SSE packs by value 09:29:32 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-169-59.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:29:42 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-204-156.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:08 Dousan: because you are not using the right test function. 09:33:09 I've already stuck it into EQL, but now I'm considering moving it to EQUAL... 09:34:48 beach... i fixed it, (remove minstate state :test 'equalp), but it still does not remove the element i want 09:34:56 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:35:19 Dousan: are you using the return value of REMOVE or are you assuming that the original list will be modified? 09:36:19 Xof... i love you... i do not setf to the initial state the returned list. 09:38:39 thank you very very much, to everybody 09:39:46 -!- sentry [~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:17 sentry [~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 09:43:46 mk2 [~user@159.92.64.214] has joined #lisp 09:44:56 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 09:46:43 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:47:09 -!- xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:47:30 xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has joined #lisp 09:49:58 <_8david> Hi there. 09:50:08 <_8david> Xof (or anyone else): Is anything Lisp-related going on this weekend in London? 09:52:19 er, not as far as I know 09:52:32 why? Are you popping over? 09:54:15 <_8david> yes, but only for the weekend. I guess I'll be busy with sightseeing anyway. 09:55:11 I have a question about slot accessors: I have two classes containing the slot 'radius in two different packages a and b. When I add #:radius to their export lists, I get a name clash when I later want to use both packages at once. For now I can't export #:radius and have to refer to it as 'a::radius. But I don't want to have to remember from which package I included the particular object class. Is there some better way to handle 09:55:11 accessors with the same name in different packages? 09:55:13 fox9 [~~3@203-219-242-59.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:55:45 you could post to uk-lispers@alu.org 09:56:32 could someone please explain this error message "RETURN-FROM: no block nailed NIL is currently visible" 09:57:14 -!- sentry [~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:38 sentry [~sentry@151.sub-69-98-145.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 09:59:07 "nailed"? Really? 09:59:55 named* 09:59:59 sorry 10:01:07 You probably have (return value) somewhere in your code, which means the same as (return-from nil value). If you mean to return from a function called (say) foo, then you must say (return-from foo value) 10:01:54 -!- ldunn [~user@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:02:25 -!- iNode [~pashelper@87.226.232.46] has left #lisp 10:04:28 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:52 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 10:07:32 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:10:02 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:15 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:42 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:13:19 where all the dojo devs are ? 10:16:21 oppps, wrong channel :) 10:18:42 -!- Dousan [~dae@77.49.14.22.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:21:05 billitch1 [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:e2cb:4eff:fea3:82c4] has joined #lisp 10:21:32 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:e2cb:4eff:fea3:82c4] has left #lisp 10:22:19 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-51-103.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:27:42 roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.93.54] has joined #lisp 10:28:34 -!- roadt_ is now known as roadt 10:33:00 Dousan [~dae@188.4.11.164.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 10:33:30 -!- tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:34:27 -!- coyo [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:35:56 coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:55 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-85-224.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:02 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:39:18 how do I get the source location of a closure with SBCL? 10:40:26 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-204-156.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:40:42 lnostdal-android [~androirc@109.179.74.130] has joined #lisp 10:40:43 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.13.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:42:53 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-191-215.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43:34 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118.93.191.215] has joined #lisp 10:51:13 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 10:51:47 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 10:51:54 dfkjjkfd_ [~paulh@96-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 10:52:18 -!- dfkjjkfd_ [~paulh@96-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 10:52:24 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@96-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 10:53:02 -!- Dousan [~dae@188.4.11.164.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:54:37 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 10:55:19 pjb: your curt answer to Rob Warnock is in error. 11:01:14 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-wntjofinptnoahls] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:07:25 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118.93.191.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09:15 Dousan [~dae@77.49.228.139.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 11:09:47 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:16:31 I don't quite inderstand how the :from and :to guards in the SBCL VOP definitions work. What exactly do :argument, :eval and :result mean there? 11:22:19 -!- xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:30:57 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 11:31:43 wubo [80f40909@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.244.9.9] has joined #lisp 11:33:23 <_8david> see sb-c:parse-time-spec, which expands these aliases 11:37:55 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:00 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:39:26 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 11:42:57 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 11:44:25 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:44:27 nus- [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 11:44:41 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:45:46 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:11 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 11:47:16 xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has joined #lisp 11:47:23 -!- nus- [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:47 Is there a way to undo defstruct and create a defclass instead - without restarting the lisp? 11:51:05 -!- b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:51:11 peterhil [peterhil@a91-153-120-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 11:51:53 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:52:06 <_8david> SBCL? I haven't tried, but I'd image that (setf (find-class 'CLASS-NAME) nil) might work. 11:52:16 <_8david> *imagine 11:52:26 OEP [~OEP@c-76-27-129-70.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:38 yep it works 11:54:53 homie [91fd03c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.197] has joined #lisp 11:55:31 _8david: thanks, that helped a lot! yes its sbcl. 11:57:26 *it's 11:58:02 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:45 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CDBD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:05 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:22 urandom__ [~user@p548A76F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:12 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.46] has joined #lisp 12:03:30 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:05:01 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:23 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-jxjiiebgwzntmovu] has joined #lisp 12:05:33 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.30.246.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:34 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:08:17 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:09:19 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:33 tychoish_ [~tychoish@c-68-32-182-67.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:16 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.46] has joined #lisp 12:11:03 -!- tychoish_ [~tychoish@c-68-32-182-67.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:12:05 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-44-113.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:12:38 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:15:32 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:35 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:32 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:18:21 -!- seejay [~seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:18:48 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:19:04 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:13 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-88-117.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:42 -!- lnostdal-android [~androirc@109.179.74.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:22:24 seejay [~seejay@plexyplanet.org] has joined #lisp 12:22:26 -!- seejay is now known as Guest33861 12:22:30 tfb [~tfb@92.40.125.157.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:25:51 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:10 -!- segv [~mb@p4FC1A5F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:26:14 Can SBCL VOPs scribble in their input args, or are they supposed to always declare temporaries and use :target as an optimization opportunity? 12:26:24 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:26:52 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:41 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:28:29 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 12:29:34 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:29:39 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:29:50 _8david: asdf2 breaks zip's system file :( 12:30:29 -!- Dousan [~dae@77.49.228.139.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:30:59 http://xach.com/tmp/fails/fail_zip_zip_zip.txt 12:31:59 <_8david> so? 12:32:15 segv [~mb@p4FC1A1CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:07 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:33:23 Will you fix it? 12:33:42 Well, never mind that. I'll note the regression on asdf's bug tracker. 12:34:09 <_8david> my #1 priority is to fix hemlock:repl in non-screen ttys, #2 is to work around the asdf2 issues in closure-html, and as soon as someone tells me what exactly the problem is in zip, I'll add that as priority #3 to my list. 12:34:31 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CDBD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:34:41 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:35:13 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:28 <_8david> DEPCHECK::MAGIC 12:35:35 <_8david> how does that work? 12:35:41 It's magic. 12:35:59 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 12:36:15 _8david: sets up an environment where all systems i know about are available for loading. 12:36:44 jaiball [~justin@c-76-119-131-178.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:48 <_8david> okay. Are you instrumenting ASDF to find dependencies while the system is loading? 12:37:00 Before it loads. 12:37:22 _8david: I think the problem is with the explicit pathname option that specifies "gray.lisp". it seems like asdf2 tacks on an extra ".lisp" at the end. 12:38:44 http://paste.lisp.org/display/113854 12:39:36 <_8david> grep -nH -e :pathname */*.asd | grep \\.lisp | wc -l 12:39:37 <_8david> 46 12:40:10 <_8david> Doesn't look to me like I'd be the only one affected by this. 12:40:17 _8david: what are some other systems I can look at? 12:40:32 _8david: it surely wouldn't surprise me that a regression in asdf2 is widespread and unreported... 12:40:51 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 12:41:57 <_8david> Let me see. Actually the 46 was including some .lisp-expr static-files. But ch-asdf, ch-image, ch-util, ch-bio, cl-biodas, cl-dot, cl-rdbms, clem-doc, clsr, cluster-ffi, clx, spatial-trees might possibly have actual .lisp pathnames like this. 12:42:42 Ok, none of those have failed for me with the same symptoms. 12:45:55 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:57 Dousan [~dae@178.128.52.138.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 12:46:52 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 12:46:52 david: I think I solved the closure-html issue a few weeks ago 12:47:14 *Xach* is brain-boggled about zip.asd 12:47:30 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A20C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:42 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A44C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:44 david: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111863 12:47:44 <_8david> okay, it works without .lisp in ASDF1. Hmm, is this thing really still in CVS? 12:47:48 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.113.119.73] has joined #lisp 12:48:07 vp8dmh [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:48:50 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 12:49:02 _8david: It seems possible to me that those other 46 are not referencing files to compile. 12:49:24 cl-dot, for example, has those in an examples directory. and clx has them as :legacy-file components. i think it might be similar for the others. 12:49:26 ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.114.115.130.plusnet.thn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:26 spatial-trees is in the same boat...not a file to be compiled. 12:51:26 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.30.246.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:52:53 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.113.119.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:53:49 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:55:10 -!- lucca [~lucca@kuu.accela.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:02:03 *Xach* fails to reproduce the problem, also 13:02:08 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:04:29 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:04:56 sellout [~greg@64.134.66.68] has joined #lisp 13:05:29 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:08:44 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@149.121-84-212.ippool.ndo.com] has left #lisp 13:09:25 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:12:01 -!- jaiball [~justin@c-76-119-131-178.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:14:09 -!- OEP [~OEP@c-76-27-129-70.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:15:04 rrice [~rrice@adsl-76-253-140-91.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:22 aha, it would help if i test the right way. 13:16:46 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-22-2.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17:09 Xach: Here's a way to test your graphical keyboard: http://imgur.com/Tr4cd 13:17:15 lnostdal-android [~androirc@77.18.188.61.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 13:17:44 Jabberwockey: Which graphical keyboard? 13:17:52 Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-14-62.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:18:09 -!- fox9 [~~3@203-219-242-59.tpgi.com.au] has quit [] 13:18:14 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has left #lisp 13:18:26 'morning 13:18:31 _8david: asdf 2.006 fixes the closure-html problem. 13:18:35 Xach: to you or slime maintainers: when building an application using buildapp, --eval '(setf swank::*log-output* nil)' must be used, otherwise creating a swank server fails in a very unfriendly manner 13:18:40 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:50 jdz: that is mentioned in the buildapp manual, i believe. 13:18:54 Xach: Well, if it wasn't a graphical keyboard, you wouldn't use an image but write the sentence. 13:19:03 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:19:16 Xach: oh damn me! 13:19:21 Jabberwockey: I'm afraid I have missed whatever context causes your discussion to make sense, sorry. 13:19:29 Xach: you should put it in red or something :/ 13:19:40 _8david: or rather, i think it does. i'll test. 13:20:07 jdz: sorry. it's part of an example. 13:20:28 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-51-103.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:20:39 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 13:20:40 Xach: Are you aware of the sentence people like to use to test QWERTY-keyboards? "The quick, brown fox jumps over the lazy dog." <- contains every letter of the latin alphabet. 13:20:59 Xach: but in general i think it is the problem with swank... 13:21:05 s/the/a 13:21:06 how can that be anything but a wild non-sequiteur. 13:21:19 -!- delta [delta@devio.us] has left #lisp 13:21:40 Jabberwockey: ok, thanks. 13:21:49 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:22:02 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 13:22:51 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:23:12 silenius [~silenus@p54946023.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:54 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-52-3.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:27:04 Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has joined #lisp 13:29:35 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 13:32:23 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:34:59 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 13:35:34 psilord2 [~psilord@adsl-99-154-14-142.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:39 -!- psilord2 [~psilord@adsl-99-154-14-142.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 13:35:48 just saw '09 tc lispers factor talk, pretty impressive.. 13:36:01 -!- lnostdal-android [~androirc@77.18.188.61.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:25 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:09 _8david: fyi, i filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/asdf/+bug/623978 13:38:47 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:39:37 jaiball [~justin@173-162-232-209-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:17 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@186-45-38-234.dynamic.tstt.net.tt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:49 owned [~owned@93-96-43-166.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:45:06 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:11 peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-116-43.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 13:52:11 -!- free_thinker [~willijar@134.151.144.246] has left #lisp 13:52:53 -!- homie [91fd03c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.197] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:54:45 mephisto_ [~mephisto@186-45-38-234.dynamic.tstt.net.tt] has joined #lisp 13:55:07 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@186-45-38-234.dynamic.tstt.net.tt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:31 mephisto_ [~mephisto@186-45-38-234.dynamic.tstt.net.tt] has joined #lisp 13:59:50 gcv [~gcv@ool-457569c4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:56 -!- gcv [~gcv@ool-457569c4.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 14:00:01 pkhuong_: ping 14:00:52 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-124-122.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:01:16 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:01:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:01:18 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 14:04:55 retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has joined #lisp 14:05:52 _8david: i can confirm that 2.006 loads closure-html without a problem. 14:05:58 asdf 2.006 that is. 14:08:30 hah 14:08:34 Xach: so quicklisp is getting asdf 2.006? 14:08:44 *Xach* finds the source of his final asdf bug is in fact himself 14:08:47 madnificent: yes. 14:09:46 Xach: what seemed to be the source of the issue? 14:10:30 expecting only string designators in system-level :depends-on lists. 14:10:39 (:version "foo" "42") is not a string designator 14:17:38 -!- owned [~owned@93-96-43-166.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: owned] 14:18:54 davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:36 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-219-29.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:24:59 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-219-29.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:28:34 -!- retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:29:29 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:30:36 hi is there anything likd this ajax-framework: http://aejaks.sourceforge.net/Aejaks_Home/index.html for lisp, too (i mean as easy to use like this)? 14:33:39 trebor: check out parenscript 14:34:41 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:40 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:38:14 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:41:01 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:41:07 bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:23 -!- bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 14:41:35 slash_1 [~unknown@p4FF0A0EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:42:25 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A44C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:44:15 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:45:11 -!- ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.114.115.130.plusnet.thn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:07 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.115.130.plusnet.thn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:19 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-121-178.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:52:16 retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has joined #lisp 14:52:24 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:55:02 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-219-29.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:55:10 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-219-29.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:56:57 konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has joined #lisp 14:57:16 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-opfksyuuohehmpza] has left #lisp 14:58:29 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:30 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-jxjiiebgwzntmovu] has left #lisp 15:02:52 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:28 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Quit: the old ways are lost] 15:06:00 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:06:55 -!- silenius [~silenus@p54946023.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:27 thanks silenius 15:10:29 -!- retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:10:40 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:13:01 trebor_dki, yes and no : yes because there is CLAW + claw-html.dojo, no because there is no documentation 15:14:33 I can only say that claw-as is an application server that uses h.tooth connector for serving web pages and claw-html is a component based framework 15:15:01 Hmm, the trick of doing different source file suffixes with a method on asdf:source-file-type (eql (find-system 'foo)) doesn't seem to be working for me in asdf 2.006 15:15:11 *hunchentoot 15:16:02 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A76F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:16 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.115.130.plusnet.thn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:48 trebor_dki: parenscript is the equivalent of what you're looking at there, I think. You can write html in lisp too, most frameworks have something for that :) 15:18:04 trebor_dki: also, it's really nice to work in one language for a complete application :) 15:19:20 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.115.130.plusnet.thn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:37 retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has joined #lisp 15:22:20 does anyone know of any lisp libs to convert colors between color spaces 15:22:32 or have any code laying around to do so 15:22:36 PuffTheMagic: kmrcl includes some code for that. 15:22:55 PuffTheMagic: although it declares the functions unsafely, so be sure to pass the right arguments. 15:23:03 PuffTheMagic: what color spaces did you have in mind? 15:23:21 TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has joined #lisp 15:23:27 i want to get colors into lab format 15:23:32 from rgb most likely 15:23:41 i have some C code to do it 15:23:45 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:23:46 so i suppose i could port it 15:23:49 I don't think kmrcl includes lab 15:24:35 guess i will just make a little color space lib then 15:24:52 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:54 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 15:25:18 cl-colors doesn't do it either 15:25:44 PuffTheMagic: perhaps add it to an existing lib? 15:26:04 yeah i was just thinking that 15:26:14 i didnt know of cl-colors before just now 15:26:35 PuffTheMagic: me neither :) 15:26:42 you can make a competing cl-colours 15:26:43 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:57 i dont want to make competing 15:27:11 make more sense to add the features to cl-colors 15:27:17 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:27:24 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-94-254.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 15:27:49 and cl-colors uses git, excellent 15:28:59 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:29:04 x11 color parser... even better 15:29:13 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:29:17 yeah cl-color has some nice features 15:29:47 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:30:04 mega1 [~quassel@pool-03121.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 15:30:45 Xach, thanks for the tip 15:30:49 on the pacakge 15:30:53 package 15:31:09 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-132.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:31:26 *Xach* has learned about a lot of libraries when gathering things for quicklisp 15:31:58 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:32:49 bhah [asshole@easy.and.friendlydrunk.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:01 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:27 pkhuong_: ping 15:33:43 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:34:20 ooh 15:34:26 why dont i know about lispy 15:34:30 KkWXzkY [452d4afd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/ip.69.45.74.253] has joined #lisp 15:34:31 Gentlemen,+I+am+pleased+to+announce+that+in+addition+to+having+leech+access+to+the+most+elite+0-day+courier+FTPs,+I+have+thousands+of+shell+accounts,+each+of+which+are+capable+of+running+an+unlimited+number+of+processes+with+eggdrop/IRC+support.+My+botnet+is+unfathomably+large.+I+have+access+to+hundreds+witty+IRC+vhosts,+using+every+existing+TLD.+I+connect+to+them+using+an+unreleased+version+of+mIRC+with+every+feature+you+c 15:34:32 You+know+what?+I+took+the+plunge+and+installed+Linux+today.+Top+Hat+or+some+hat+version.+But+now+I+have+a+problem.+Im+getting+these+big+red+lesions+all+over+me.+Im+not+allergic+to+anything+that+would+cause+that,+and+I+havent+become+infected+with+any+diseases,+my+doctor+checked+me+out+fine.+Then+I+figured+out+what+Linux+really+is.+Open+Sores.+Linux+is+killing+me!+Help! 15:34:33 If+your+tongue+is+anything+like+your+foot,+then+I+will+sweat+like+a+banchee+if+you+eat+me+out. 15:34:35 I+cant+go+a+day+without+punching+myself.+It+is+the+only+thing+I+get+pleasure+from,+so+I+end+up+with+bruises+and+I+cry+myself+to+sleep+because+the+only+thing+I+enjoy+is+painful.+I+tried+to+kill+myself+once,+but+then+I+stopped+because+my+mom+threw+a+beer+bottle+at+me. 15:34:35 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 15:34:37 girl+you+must+be+harry+potter+because+my+dick+is+slytherin 15:34:38 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*452d4afd@*.wikia.com/ip.69.45.74.253 15:34:46 dWob27AJlB [c270044a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/ip.194.112.4.74] has joined #lisp 15:34:49 mkuwEH9UL [3d596322@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/ip.61.89.99.34] has joined #lisp 15:34:58 *Raynes* yawns. 15:35:00 oDqSEMTT89aT4 [c270044a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/ip.194.112.4.74] has joined #lisp 15:35:00 -!- KkWXzkY [452d4afd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/ip.69.45.74.253] has quit [Client Quit] 15:35:13 I+was+watching+myself+everynight.+Eventually+I+found+myself+very+attractive,+and+I+finally+realized+my+ability+to+make+her+love+me.+So+I+raped+her.+But+I+later+found+she+was+a+slut+since+she+didn't+want+to+marry+me.+So,+I+raped+her+again.+I+think+she+loves+me+now. 15:35:32 Dude's+fucking+dudes.+Everybody+on+the+floor.+No+condoms+No+condoms! 15:35:36 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*@*/irc.wikia.com/* 15:36:05 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:14 -!- oDqSEMTT89aT4 [c270044a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/ip.194.112.4.74] has quit [Client Quit] 15:36:14 -!- mkuwEH9UL [3d596322@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/ip.61.89.99.34] has quit [Client Quit] 15:36:14 -!- dWob27AJlB [c270044a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/ip.194.112.4.74] has quit [Client Quit] 15:36:19 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:55 pkhuong_: did you yourself do anything on the problem of sse after http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/pkhuong.git/shortlog/refs/heads/sse-pack-sbcl10 ? 15:39:07 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:19 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 15:45:06 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.66.68] has quit [Quit: sellout] 15:46:28 beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-124-122.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:47:34 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:45 zbeasnyy [~mornfall@ip-89-102-11-250.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 15:49:36 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f298.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:03 -!- atomx` [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:18 revel0___ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:51:24 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-76-118-76-200.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:42 OK so I just finished reading the Paul Grahmn essay -- lIsp startups 15:52:01 my question now is, for a web application, can lisp replace PHP? 15:52:32 several people here have done that, yes. 15:54:37 -!- Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-14-62.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:56:59 sabalaba: just about any language can replace php tbh 15:57:09 sabalaba: The biggest caveat is probably the amount of server setup you'd have to do yourself, versus the huge proliferation of hosting services that are already configured for PHP 15:57:30 Makoryu: I need much less time to setup a lisp server than a php one 15:58:22 madnificent: But you still need to choose your host a little more carefully, to ensure that you even have the freedom to set up your own Lisp executables 15:58:40 Of course, if you're building your own server to begin with, this isn't an issue 15:58:52 Since you'd do all the configuration yourself one way or another 15:59:10 Makoryu, I see0-- hosting isn't an issue, the issues is whether or not lisp is truly better than PHP for creating database driven web apps 15:59:27 -!- roadt [~roadt@60.168.93.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:20 sabalaba: I think at that point, it becomes a matter of taste. Some people actually quite like having a broken language where integers silently overflow on 32bit systems. 16:00:29 srolls [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:01:07 <_3b> also depends on how well you know either of them 16:01:40 sykopomp: instead of silently changing its performance characteristics? :) 16:01:48 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:02:06 sykopomp, I think the real question is whether or not LISP actually offers a competitive advantage over PHP in the long run 16:02:28 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 16:03:11 sabalaba: LISP does not, since LISP far predates the web. Lisp, on the other hand, is a modern language being used in production. 16:03:44 sabalaba: and some would argue that it most definitely provides a competitive advantage. Some people here make a decent living out of tossing together sites using Common Lisp. 16:03:48 sykopomp, sorry, I meant Lisp, my pinky got a bit excited 16:04:10 dlowe: I'd rather suffer a slowdown than lose data. 16:04:13 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 16:04:20 LISP is unsuitable for the web, as most websites have lowercase letters 16:04:32 haha 16:04:33 sykopomp: perhaps the slowdown may lose you data 16:04:48 dlowe: perhaps, but an integer overflow almost definitely will. 16:04:51 :) 16:04:54 in fairness, I suspect that most people who write Lisp would rather chew off their own arms than write PHP :) 16:04:56 sykopomp: anyway, I was pointing out that the change in behavior is silent in both cases 16:05:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-1-112.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 16:05:13 it'd be nice if an exception could be thrown on overflow 16:05:21 cmo-0 [~user@92.99.48.191] has joined #lisp 16:05:22 (optionally, of course) 16:05:25 -!- atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has left #lisp 16:05:38 declare fixnum? 16:05:43 madnificent: sorry for delayed answer, i still was googling 16:06:05 stassats: it would be nice if (optimize debug) worked as more of a blanket 'alert me on overflow'. 16:06:07 check-type fixnum, rather 16:06:22 maybe (optimize debug) isn't such a great idea for this. 16:07:04 having to declare all your integers as fixnums because you don't know which one will be the one that overflows is a bit meh. 16:07:17 i think it's called "profiling" 16:07:27 dlowe: the alternative is creating your own + function that throws a warning when the type is not an integer anymore 16:07:38 stassats: that would be my preferred solution, yes. 16:07:40 dlowe: hence, it is possible 16:07:51 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:51 mhd [~mhd@pool-98-118-119-162.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:25 stassats: you're invading on the privacy of your variables! Only the state can do profiling 16:09:10 my variables are immutable, i don't have any state 16:09:17 vms2 [~user@p57A7C550.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:40 (explicit state) 16:09:48 stassats: total anarchy! 16:10:28 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 16:11:26 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 16:11:39 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 16:12:04 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: Asta la vista] 16:14:18 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:56 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:16:56 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:17:45 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:18:28 -!- stokachu [~user@nat/redhat/x-faqrhbwphilxfgjb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:58 -!- revel0___ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:22:14 -!- yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:23:23 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-219-29.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:23:32 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-219-29.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:23:54 Kerrick [~Kerrick@2610:130:102:400:221:6aff:fe7a:1842] has joined #lisp 16:24:17 stokachu [~user@nat/redhat/x-cdmxztwsqupoqdur] has joined #lisp 16:26:26 yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 16:27:50 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 16:30:00 sorry if this is too obvious silly (deftyping): http://paste.lisp.org/+2FUU 16:30:28 lisppaste: are you alive 16:30:36 you can't distinguish between them 16:30:54 lisppaste is alive, but it's voice-deprived 16:31:17 trebor_dki: you have to define your own structures 16:31:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-1-112.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:32:27 stassats: thanks, would have been too nice 16:33:09 i advice to store everything internally in one units, and convert when needed 16:33:18 s/advice/advise/ 16:33:38 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:34:38 I've been doing a fair amount of R programming recently 16:34:58 I think I have finally got the point of prototype-ish-based object systems 16:35:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-1-112.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 16:35:22 it is certainly fairly convenient to be able to say class(2.5) <- c("kelvin", class(2.5)) 16:35:26 stassats: surely, SI-only ;) 16:35:48 the tradeoff: it's unbelievably slow and memory-intensive 16:35:59 speaking of which, any R progammers around? 16:36:34 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:24 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@2610:130:102:400:221:6aff:fe7a:1842] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:37:46 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:51 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:38:56 Xof: I hear the clojure-based Incanter is also very good (and is approaching R in functionality). 16:39:29 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:18 tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:31 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:41:00 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:10 rtoym: asdf2 has, by design, broken the f2cl system definition. i can send you a patch that would fix it for asdf2 and still work with asdf1. would you be likely to apply it? 16:42:56 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:08 oh 16:43:21 no wonder i couldn't get it run 16:43:24 antifuchs: it may or may not be approaching R in functionality, but it is not anywhere near approaching R in library coverage 16:43:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-1-112.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:43:56 for a change, I don't particularly want to be contributing vastly to a software infrastructure: I want to actually use software 16:44:11 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 16:46:19 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.115.130.plusnet.thn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:46:46 timor [~timor@port-92-195-102-61.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:46:55 Xof: I'm going to be dusting off my R skillz for a while 16:48:50 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:49:08 -!- bhah [asshole@easy.and.friendlydrunk.net] has left #lisp 16:49:53 Xach: Yes, I'll apply the patch. 16:51:04 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:01 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:19 rtoym: ok, thanks. 16:54:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:55:28 slyrus_: wanna try swankr? 16:55:36 yes!! 16:56:09 ESS was one of the reasons I felt compelled to reinvent the wheel in SBCL 16:56:13 I will take those two exclamation marks as an indication that you didn't like ESS much 16:56:21 heh 16:56:24 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.231.45.homesurf.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:41 ok, let me just get source location from sldb working 16:57:13 -!- mega1 [~quassel@pool-03121.externet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:58:10 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-102-61.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:53 -!- red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:55 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.115.47] has joined #lisp 17:01:04 Does anybody know why pack-load-tn in sbcl's compiler/pack.lisp drops the primitive type from the load TN? 17:01:13 Xof: I get that you want something that works for a change (-: 17:01:47 -!- jaiball [~justin@173-162-232-209-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:01:52 just saying, if your interests overlap enough with those of the people working on incanter (that would be the flightcaster people), then you might just find what you need there, too 17:05:10 delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 17:06:04 rtoym: http://xach.com/tmp/f2cl-system.diff is it. would you prefer mail? 17:09:12 antifuchs: nice link. I'll try to configure that on c-l.net one of these days 17:09:23 -!- mk2 [~user@159.92.64.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:09:26 fe[nl]ix: it makes everything go vroooooom 17:09:26 arek_ [~arek@77.236.0.10] has joined #lisp 17:09:42 :D 17:09:44 I was really surprised how fast clones through https on github got when they activated that (: 17:11:47 I was amazed at how long a git svn fetch of the R repo took 17:11:48 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 17:12:53 git svn is always slooow, and it uses a lot of resources on the server too. much faster to clone an existing git-svn repo. 17:13:17 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-102-239.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:14:10 serichsen [~user@f048067102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:14:15 Good evening! 17:16:20 pkhuong_: ping 17:16:28 slyrus_: http://www.doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/tmp/swank.R 17:16:51 Xof: what is that? 17:16:51 -!- mhd [~mhd@pool-98-118-119-162.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:16:57 thanks! 17:17:09 a very partial implementation of swank for R 17:17:37 slyrus_: you probably will also need (setq defun-prompt-regexp "^\\(\\(\\sw\\|\\s_\\)+\\|\\s\"\\S\"+\\s\"\\)\\s-*\\(=\\|<-\\)\\s-*function\\s-*(.*)\\s-*"))) 17:17:45 in an ess-mode-hook 17:17:51 otherwise C-c C-c will mostly not work 17:18:28 I'm going home now, but let me know how you get on 17:18:40 ok, it's on my list of things to try today. thanks! 17:20:56 Kerrick [~Kerrick@b11wi-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 17:21:40 Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has joined #lisp 17:22:12 antifuchs: can you point me at somebody who understands TNs and primitive types in sbcl? Or maybe I should write to sbcl-devel? 17:22:14 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.125.157.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:22:53 nyef, pkhuong, Xof, nikodemus or jsnell may be your best bet. 17:22:59 basically, the usual suspects 17:23:24 sbcl-devel would be the best place to ask these things, though... but answers may take a while 17:25:07 I'm investigating SSE for sbcl (since pkhuong appears to be busy), and found something I think to be strange - although I have zero previous SBCL knowledge and it might be something obvious 17:25:42 Xach: Patch applied. Seems to work too. :-) 17:26:19 *rtoym* knows a little bit about TNs and primitive types. 17:27:43 rtoym: Do you know why primitive types are dropped from load TNs? This happens in pack-load-tn in pack.lisp 17:28:08 rtoym: The type is known, so why set the field to NIL? 17:28:22 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@b11wi-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:28:58 git blame shows that the code hadn't changed since 2000 17:30:21 Sorry, that's part of the compiler I don't know anything about. Besides, in cmucl, that function hasn't changed since 1991. :-) 17:30:58 jaiball [~justin@c-76-119-131-178.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:05 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: zz] 17:31:10 maybe I should try changing, run make.sh and see what happens :) 17:31:37 metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has joined #lisp 17:32:08 Since it has changed in 10 years, it's probably working the way it's supposed to work? 17:33:03 rtoym: just like *default-pathname-default* merging or unix-namestring? 17:33:04 *Xach* runs 17:33:56 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:32 Xach: Heh. Well, I think pack-load-tn way more often than *d-p-d* merging and unix-namestring. 17:35:24 rtoym: pkhuong's prototype sse code dispatches on that type inside VOPs to select optimal instructions, and that breaks randomly 17:35:54 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@75.128.11.42] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 17:36:23 hwo does one print without a line break? 17:36:36 sabalaba: look at FORMAT or WRITE 17:36:41 (if you were using PRINT before) 17:36:43 antifuchs, thanks 17:37:02 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:13 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:38:26 -!- gonzojive [~red@128.12.169.254] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 17:39:02 -!- vms2 [~user@p57A7C550.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:39:07 Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-46-159.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:40:14 angavrilov: Why not have separate vops for each type? 17:40:24 *rtoym* needs to run. bbiab. 17:41:20 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:42:03 rtoym: he appears to think that these types are a fiction and don't really matter except for slight performance difference 17:42:13 jdz [~jdz@host10-109-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:42:32 -!- arek_ [~arek@77.236.0.10] has left #lisp 17:42:50 rtoym: hm, I compiled everything, and it appears to work so far 17:43:35 sabalaba: see also PRIN1 17:45:38 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CDBD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:18 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:18 -!- zbeasnyy [~mornfall@ip-89-102-11-250.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:58 -!- jdz [~jdz@host10-109-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:57:18 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:58:37 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 18:02:52 jdz [~jdz@host180-69-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:02:58 -!- davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:50 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:39 jwest- [~ask@unaffiliated/jwest/x-422957] has joined #lisp 18:19:36 -!- vp8dmh [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:20:08 vp8dmh [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:21:20 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:23:54 -!- TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has quit [Quit: TheEnd2012] 18:24:25 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:39 how do I prevent folding of a lower case function argument into an upper case? 18:25:24 navigator [~navigator@p54892D3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:39 sabalaba: use something other than a symbol with the default reader settings. 18:27:05 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:57 arek [~arek@77.236.0.10] has joined #lisp 18:28:04 Xach, i'm not sure what you mean by that 18:29:07 rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:33 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:31:23 sabalaba: What kind of function arguments do you see getting folded into upper case? 18:31:38 binart ('a' +) 18:31:39 a 18:31:41 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 18:31:52 uh 18:31:57 that doesn't look like Common Lisp 18:32:22 -!- jwest- [~ask@unaffiliated/jwest/x-422957] has quit [] 18:32:24 sabalaba: Are you trying to write the character literal 'a'? 18:32:47 sabalaba: Because that's not the syntax for it in CL 18:33:09 for example 18:33:40 Good evening everyone! 18:33:47 Hi, beach! :) 18:34:33 silenius [~silenus@p54946023.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:40 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.254.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:35:32 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:21 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.254.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:46 hi beach 18:38:57 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:41:59 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:42:29 -!- arek [~arek@77.236.0.10] has left #lisp 18:44:05 owned [~owned@93-96-43-166.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:46:43 that lisp cabinet.. no words.. that and quicklisp.. what a great month for CL 18:47:13 lisp cabinet is only windows? 18:47:23 yes 18:47:36 just wanted to double-check 18:47:45 Kae [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:47:53 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-102-239.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:48:06 ? 18:50:45 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has left #lisp 18:51:40 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B3279AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:00 Hun [~hun@95-90-224-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:55:22 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B326555.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:57:38 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@186-45-38-234.dynamic.tstt.net.tt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-13-211.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 18:58:30 carlocci [~nes@93.37.220.29] has joined #lisp 19:01:29 -!- Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:01:29 -!- segv [~mb@p4FC1A1CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:24 ben_m [~ben@chello084113058207.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:05:06 Xach: around? 19:05:31 hi beach 19:06:13 Xach: You probably didn't see the logs/scrollbacks. I said that quicklisp looks pretty good! 19:06:46 beach: thanks! it has been improving since you first saw it. 19:06:49 Xach: And I was wondering whether it would be practical to replace clbuild by it in around two weeks for our class this year. What do you think? 19:07:13 beach: two weeks is too soon, i'm afraid. the progress is steady but slow. 19:07:24 Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has joined #lisp 19:07:25 Hmm, OK. 19:07:27 beach: i would be very happy to have a released project by the time ILC happens in October. 19:07:46 beach: you could arrange some funding for Xach :) 19:07:53 Xach: if beach only needs a limited set of libraries, wouldn't the students be a good testing ground? 19:07:53 *Xach* waggles eyebrows 19:07:57 Oh, wait, I might not need it that soon. 19:08:59 Xach: I think the class I am thinking of is not until spring. 19:09:03 *sykopomp* wonders if Quicklisp will be recognized more for its actual quality, or for the caliber of its fanboys/girls. 19:09:39 sykopomp: perhaps the fanboys have a reason to be enthousiastic about it :) 19:09:50 sykopomp: It definitely seems to solve the problem of some sites being temporarily or permanently down. 19:09:57 I did not say otherwise. Nor did I exclude myself from fanboyism. :D 19:10:04 beach: I hope very much to have something ready for spring. 19:10:10 beach: it solves a lot of problems! 19:10:42 Xach: Good. I'll let my colleagues know (I am not directly involved in that teaching this year). 19:11:06 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: HULK ANGRY! HULK DISCONNECT!] 19:12:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-13-211.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:12:23 pkhuong_: ping 19:12:42 Kerrick [~Kerrick@2610:130:102:800:221:6aff:fe7a:1842] has joined #lisp 19:17:03 Xach: So do you copy recent releases/repositories to a particular site from which quicklisp download them? 19:17:04 -!- owned [~owned@93-96-43-166.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:05 owned_ [~owned@93-96-43-166.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:17:36 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:17:55 -!- benny [~user@i577A1A94.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:18:21 pkhuong_: this tweak to the compiler core improves reliability of SSE code generation based on checking tn-primitive-type, but I don't know if it is safe: http://github.com/angavrilov/sbcl/commit/694b31cf6113e19c53293ee243b08f7846006771 19:18:57 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@p4FF0A0EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:11 beach: yes. 19:30:16 kwabbles [~mike@h-67-101-178-243.lsanca54.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:31 I've most likely got a silly question about sbcl 19:31:55 does anyone know if the recent version of sbcl has a changed REPL prompt? 19:31:55 I think I asked this before, but have forgotten the answer... any recommendations for SBCL-friendly virtual hosting services? 19:32:18 it used to be a CL-USER> or something to that effect, this new version i installed just has a * 19:32:55 kwabbles: SBCL never prompted with CL-USER. That was SLIME. 19:33:24 slyrus_, wasn't the default answer "drewc"?-) 19:33:51 tech.coop, that is 19:33:59 kwabbles: Did you recently reinstall SLIME? 19:33:59 well there you go - i was using slime before and thought it just pushed the prompt straight from sbcl... yeah you're right - thanks! 19:34:02 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-132.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:34:24 yeah i just build a new slackware system with fresh emacs/slime/sbcl 19:34:42 nus: hmm... maybe. 19:34:48 kwabbles: let's guess, you had *old* SLIME? :D 19:34:56 kwabbles: In your .emacs, you might need to say something like (slime-setup '(slime-fancey)) 19:35:01 yeah i just built slime straight from cvs today 19:35:11 *fancy 19:35:13 kwabbles: slime-repl is now in contrib, slime-fancy enables most necessary features 19:35:23 Phoodus [foo@174-22-199-91.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:30 i see 19:35:30 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:35:39 -!- Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-46-159.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:35:40 thanks for the help guys 19:36:32 *p_l* would love something akin to some java tools he had seen, but it would require much much more work and involvement from package writers, probably... though quicklisp is paving the way for some of it :) 19:37:34 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:37:55 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:18 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:39:16 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:01 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:41:01 -!- salva_ is now known as salva 19:41:57 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:43:50 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 19:43:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:44:51 -!- Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:45:03 Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has joined #lisp 19:46:00 zbeasnyy [~mornfall@ip-89-102-11-250.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:48:25 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: irl ragequit] 19:49:30 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-116.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:13 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 19:51:48 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:51:48 -!- salva_ is now known as salva 19:52:35 epoxy [~epoxy@dialin.inttek.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:12 timor [~timor@port-92-195-102-61.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:55:32 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:56:39 -!- zbeasnyy [~mornfall@ip-89-102-11-250.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: the old ways are lost] 19:56:45 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 19:56:46 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 19:56:47 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 19:56:47 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 19:56:54 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 19:57:10 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:57:32 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:57:35 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 20:02:52 ejs [~eugen@109-167-31-73.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 20:02:54 francogrex [~user@109.130.66.29] has joined #lisp 20:04:39 khrum42 [~khrum42@2001:a60:f05d:1::dead] has joined #lisp 20:06:48 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.115.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:56 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@2610:130:102:800:221:6aff:fe7a:1842] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:09:45 can "case" have equal used instead of eql (if one is testing strings for example, 20:10:05 francogrex: pkhuong_ wrote a nice string-case. 20:10:09 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:10:53 sykopomp: ok where, I would add it to my .[implementation]rc 20:11:20 http://discontinuity.info/~pkhuong/string-case.lisp I'm not sure if this is the canonical version. 20:11:33 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.55.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:12:55 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:13:02 canonical? 20:13:18 I don't know if that's the latest version, I mean :) 20:13:32 but it probably works. 20:13:51 ok nice 20:14:52 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 20:15:57 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:16:04 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-5-203.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:19 sykopomp: is it sbcl specific? 20:17:10 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:54 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:20 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-55-133.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:19:22 francogrex: probably 20:20:34 TomJ [~tomj@78.151.111.133] has joined #lisp 20:21:31 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 20:22:49 Kerrick [~Kerrick@c16-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 20:26:58 Doesn't look very sbcl specific. 20:27:02 -!- ben_m [~ben@chello084113058207.12.vie.surfer.at] has left #lisp 20:27:04 Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-42-151.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:30:42 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.114.34.225.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:52 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 20:31:17 -!- phadthai [mmondor@66.11.161.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:31:48 phadthai [mmondor@66.11.161.166] has joined #lisp 20:32:02 -!- Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-42-151.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:34:04 frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:34:21 -!- retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:27 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.231.45.homesurf.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:37:32 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:02 narzac [~user@88.248.141.169] has joined #lisp 20:39:02 -!- silenius [~silenus@p54946023.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:39:55 bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:10 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f298.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:41:29 -!- narzac [~user@88.248.141.169] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:45 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 20:42:38 -!- owned_ is now known as londonmet 20:43:01 moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:44 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:43:54 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:44:04 insanux [~hola@83.54.63.183] has joined #lisp 20:44:27 *udzinari* wonders what is wrong with buffer scrolling in lisp-cabinet.. the buffer is not updated untill he releases C-n, while C-p works normally.. 20:45:03 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 20:45:06 LaPingvino [d5229b7d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.34.155.125] has joined #lisp 20:45:10 -!- LaPingvino [d5229b7d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.34.155.125] has left #lisp 20:45:41 Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-45-106.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:46:18 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:46:23 Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 20:46:35 -!- ejs [~eugen@109-167-31-73.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:46:49 Hi 20:46:49 Sikander, memo from LiamH: Do a fresh pull on gsd and gsll; FAST-FOURIER-TRANSFORM: 235 assertions passed, 55 failed. Try (reset-urand) and then (test-fft-noise 'double-float 3 :stride 2). The four results should match in pairs but don't. 20:47:27 rtoym: I didn't read it all, just saw that (:use #:cl #+sbcl #:sb-c #+sbcl #:sb-vm) 20:47:27 20:47:55 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-224-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:01 Sikander: Hi. I would be interested if you have any insight on the failure(s). 20:49:04 LiamH: Hi.I'm looking into it. 20:50:19 francogrex: well, it's #+sbcl 20:51:16 LiamH: Weird. They seem to match for me 20:52:11 Sikander: really? What do you get for totals if you do (lisp-unit:run-tests fast-fourier-transform) (after uncommenting and loading the test definitions, of course)? 20:52:46 -!- frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:53:18 is there a portable alternative to SLEEP which supports sub-second precision ? 20:53:29 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:59 LiamH: FAST-FOURIER-TRANSFORM: 290 assertions passed, 0 failed. 20:54:09 Sikander: Oh my. 20:54:29 -!- moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:54:32 LiamH: It takes a "long" time, though, considering that it's only checking up to size 9 20:55:06 LiamH: Oh, wait a second 20:55:29 Sikander: Weird, here's what I get now: FAST-FOURIER-TRANSFORM: 289 assertions passed, 1 failed. 20:56:10 LiamH: Yes, when I restart a lisp and run again, I get 9 failures. 20:56:14 Uh oh, looks like random numerical nonsense: but saw #2m(#C(0.5138700781390071d0 0.0d0) #C(0.5138700781390071d0 3.7153365535132735d170)) 20:56:45 LiamH: That's weird indeed 20:57:11 Looks like we have some flakiness here, like reading/writing beyond array bounds. 20:57:38 LiamH: Successive runs have an increasing amount of failures. 20:57:49 Ha, ha, it's a random number generator: FAST-FOURIER-TRANSFORM: 171 assertions passed, 119 failed. 20:58:17 LiamH: I'll have a look at what the fft is doing and why this weirdness happens. 20:58:19 zek1 [~shiko@sta21-2-82-235-186-81.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:50 LiamH: use it for encryption and such! 20:58:55 I wonder if it's reusing something that shouldn't be reused, or freeing memory too early, or something like that. 20:58:58 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:59:11 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Quit: bork bork] 20:59:19 zbeasnyy [~mornfall@ip-89-102-11-250.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 20:59:23 LiamH: then hackers will try to model the random number generator, axbstracting the behavior of the errors. And there you have your first clue for finding the bugs! 20:59:28 I have a question regarding the spec. E.g. for CHAR, it says that the index argument must be a valid array index, but there are no exceptional situations. Does this mean that an implementation is free to do whatever it pleases whey you give an out of bounds index? 20:59:48 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-116.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:59:56 madnificent: yes, encyrption without repeatability or decryption. 20:59:57 LiamH: I think it might be something like that. 21:00:00 Sikander: consequences are undefined is what they mostly say 21:00:06 Sikander: in general, yes. 21:00:23 LiamH: perfect! That's the best way to keep your data away from everyone 21:00:30 Sikander: however all implementations will signal an error at least when not compiling with (optimize (safety 0))... 21:00:32 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 21:01:06 Ok, so it's not like you can simply try to do something in those indices and just handle the situation when it goes wrong? I have to check beforehand if the index will be out of bounds 21:01:20 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 21:01:24 Sikander: it's getting weirder: FAST-FOURIER-TRANSFORM: can't decode NaN or infinity: # 21:01:34 Sikander: it would lead to a more conformant program to check beforehand yes. 21:01:37 pjb: Aha, ok. so it's bad practice to just try it and handle it if it fails 21:01:43 pjb: thanks 21:01:52 LiamH: Nice... 21:02:37 LiamH: I've used the FFT several times, without any problems. There might be an issue with the function that generates the arrays to be compared. I'll dive into it. 21:02:47 Sikander: There's a definite decline in quality of answers as a function of number of times the test has been run in a lisp session. 21:03:12 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:03:50 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-76-253-140-91.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:04:11 LiamH: Yes, I also found that successive calls increases the number of failures 21:04:33 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:04:52 LiamH: I really don't understand why you insist on all these "tests"... Oh, wait. 21:04:52 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:05:13 rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:06:35 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:17 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:08:18 CCL shows the same random answers as SBCL, but seems to favor FLOATING-POINT-OVERFLOW detected more. I was kind of hoping there might be a better clue here, but I don't see it if there is. 21:08:39 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:09 owned [~owned@93-96-43-166.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:09:44 LiamH: There's a problem with how the stride is handled, or so it seems. 21:11:11 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@c16-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:11:40 -!- londonmet [~owned@93-96-43-166.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:12:06 LiamH: I have a question for you: in test-fft-noise, you do a grid:copy-to and take the size of the array as the size divided by the stride. This should not be the case. 21:12:36 Sikander: OK 21:12:48 LiamH: Oh, wait, I said that wrong. 21:12:53 LiamH: Lemme try something here... 21:13:26 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:56 Sikander: the same is true for AREF 21:15:11 Sikander: I'd consider any implementation that does not emit bound checks unless (safety 0) is specified to be broken 21:16:01 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:16:13 unless it can prove that at a certain point bound checking would be superfluous of course :-) 21:16:14 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 21:18:42 Sikander: notice that the standard does not require that an implementation employs a garbage collector :-) 21:18:47 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:41 tcr: I understand. It was actually just a general question, not something I was actually planning to do. 21:20:08 LiamH: It's definately something with stride. I haven't quite found it yet, but all tests for stride 1 succeed, also on successive calls 21:20:38 -!- zek1 [~shiko@sta21-2-82-235-186-81.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 21:21:00 moocow [~new@64.151.208.2] has joined #lisp 21:21:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:21:22 Sikander: Interesting. In these kinds of problems, there's usually a distinction between the call that causes the problem and the one that detects (exhibits) the problem. So in this case it sounds like stride > 1 is doing both. 21:21:36 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.114.34.225.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:40 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:21:43 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:23:16 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 21:24:07 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 21:25:48 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:26:08 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:18 LiamH: How can I get one element from a vector? maref won't work any more 21:26:28 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 21:26:32 LiamH: Haven't worked with gsd much yet *shame* 21:26:33 grid:gref 21:26:39 LiamH: Ah, thanks 21:26:41 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:27:04 Sikander: there is actually some documentation 21:29:50 -!- navigator [~navigator@p54892D3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 21:31:48 marioxcc [~user@200.66.24.29] has joined #lisp 21:31:54 Hi 21:32:10 i'm doing a (bogus for now) implementation of sparse tables 21:32:30 any suggesstions for the API? 21:33:02 i'thinking of make-sparse-array sparse-array-aref (as a function and setf place) 21:33:39 sparse-aref 21:34:15 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:34:25 ok 21:36:23 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-219-29.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:36:48 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-219-29.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:36:57 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:39:32 LiamH: Yeah, I saw 21:39:54 LiamH: I think I have an idea what's going on 21:39:57 Anyone use LispWorks or AllegroCL on Linux x86-64? 21:40:08 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 21:41:18 Sikander: which is...? 21:41:53 LiamH: Sorry 21:42:11 LiamH: Why does make-urand-vector make a complex vector even when we ask for a real one? 21:42:42 LiamH: Basically, this is why there is a need for realpart-vector 21:43:05 Sikander: IIRC, the FFT routine(s) to which the output is being passed require a complex vector, even if it's "real" (im part = 0). 21:43:29 LiamH: Ah, you're right. 21:43:39 LiamH: Dammit 21:43:56 LiamH: Ok, so here's what happens if I understand it correctly 21:44:18 LiamH: First, we make a complex random vector, where im=0 21:44:50 LiamH: Then we take the real part, fft it and compare it to the dft. that one seems to be right 21:45:29 we then take the fft'ed one (called forward) and inverse fft it. 21:46:07 Since the real part vector was manipulated, it's not identical to the random vector any more. 21:46:27 Sikander: yes 21:46:30 so the inverse vector won't be the same _for elements that are outside of the stride_ 21:47:02 The fourier components that are in the stride, so to speak, seem to be fine. Only off-stride components show "noise" 21:47:06 I gues 21:47:08 s 21:47:38 Sikander: but aren't those off-stride elements ignored? 21:47:59 During FFT etc, yes, but not when you compare element by element 21:48:41 Oh, so we need a stride-based compare. 21:48:52 LiamH: No. This is a failure, since GSL has an additional test that I was converting to GSLL, where it explicitly checks that off-stride elements are identical before, after etc. 21:49:43 LiamH: I think it's because we mess with the vector after generating the random vector. We could first manipulate the vector, and _then_ pass it on. I'll try that 21:50:02 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:50:19 Sikander: or just copy it? 21:52:42 -!- jdz [~jdz@host180-69-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:55:05 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.66.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:18 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:02 *bhyde* amused that the lisp impl. i'm using has no problem with this: (defun gosh (x) (case x ('1 "one") ('2 "two") ('3 "three"))) 21:58:00 That's fine CL 21:58:03 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:58:24 You might be interested in what (gosh 'quote) does though... 21:58:25 I wouldn't say fine 21:58:42 syntactically and semantically legal 21:58:46 keys - "A designator for a list of objects" 21:58:59 (quote 1) is a valid normal-clause. 21:59:03 yes, the list being (quote ...) yes 21:59:03 stylistically horrible and misleading 21:59:06 it will match either QUOTE or 1. 21:59:25 so it _has_ to be legal (and work if you're trying to match numbers) in order to be compliant. 21:59:28 jsnell_: yes obviously, I meant "fine" as in "you should not expect the system to know that 21:59:40 a decent implementation might warn you that you have duplicate keys 21:59:50 good point 21:59:56 ah 21:59:57 sbcl does warn 22:00:24 (STYLE-WARNING, obviously; it is after all legal) 22:00:27 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 22:00:37 so does CCL in fact 22:00:41 LiamH: Hm, I have to dive into the precise GSL functions again to be sure I'm doing this correctly. But it's quite late now, so I'll continue tomorrow, ok? 22:01:03 Sikander: of course 22:01:04 lispworks doesn't warn, silly lispworks ;) 22:01:16 -!- Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:01:20 bhyde: even compiled? 22:01:31 Sikander: if you do a brain dump now, maybe I can poke at it tonight. 22:02:12 tfb - nope 22:02:43 LiamH: Well, I'm not sure if the brain dump will be useful. I need to remember (i.e. read the GSL manual) what each of the fourier transform functions does exactly, and figure out (i.e. look at the GSL tests) at how the results should behave 22:03:10 -!- cmo-0 [~user@92.99.48.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:42 Sikander: but you're currently thinking it's how the stride is handled on return from these functions? 22:03:47 LiamH: But basically, I believe that there's a problem with the stride. Either due to realpart-vector or due to the unpacking. 22:05:42 LiamH: Naturaly, the GSL functions that use the stride should handle it correctly (i.e. that should pass the tests). One problem is that in vector/length, elt/ will divide all elements (including off-stride elements), which should not be the case. 22:06:10 LiamH: Replacing that with a loop with a step should already take care of some part 22:06:58 Sikander: OK, that gives me something to chew on. 22:07:01 LiamH: ... of some part of the problem 22:07:32 LiamH: Sorry for being so vague. My brain is shutting down... 22:08:08 Sikander: no worries, I'll take a look at it. 22:08:17 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:42 LiamH: Ok, lemme know if you find something. I'll poke about tomorrow. 22:09:09 Well, it's been fun... 22:09:09 Sikander: will do, thanks. 22:09:14 I wish you all a good night 22:09:22 Good night. 22:09:27 -!- Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Time to sleep...] 22:09:30 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-52-3.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 22:09:59 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:09:59 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.66.24.29] has left #lisp 22:10:30 abugosh [~Adium@pool-96-255-9-45.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:37 nus [~nus@81.24.80.50] has joined #lisp 22:12:37 -!- nus [~nus@81.24.80.50] has quit [Client Quit] 22:13:03 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:14:00 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:06 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 22:18:59 -!- owned is now known as londonmet050 22:19:27 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:50 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:21:19 -!- londonmet050 [~owned@93-96-43-166.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Changing host] 22:21:19 londonmet050 [~owned@unaffiliated/londonmet050] has joined #lisp 22:21:59 cowhm [~cowhm@54.sub-97-181-52.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:00 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:23:05 -!- londonmet050 is now known as owned 22:24:04 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 22:24:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:25:29 tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:32 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 22:25:34 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 22:25:34 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 22:29:34 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 22:33:45 -!- cowhm [~cowhm@54.sub-97-181-52.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: -a-] 22:36:02 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:21 Are there any free tools to visually explore the relationships/dependencies between Lisp files? 22:39:08 What kind of relationships/dependencies? Many lisps have a cross-reference facility. Someone actually used such a lisp to create a huge who-calls graph, I think. 22:39:33 graph of maxima, that is. 22:40:42 (I'd like to see the graph of Maxima) rtoym: Well, I'm on linux, and I am a poor ol' guy, so I don't have access to those thousand-dollar lisps. And as far as I know, SBCL et al. are really just compilers and noting more. 22:41:39 sbcl and cmucl have a cross-reference facility. 22:42:03 I don't remember where the graph for maxima is. I'll have to poke around. 22:42:10 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:14 I guess they're more or less equal to WHO-CALLS? 22:43:26 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 22:46:43 owned_ [~owned@93-96-43-166.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:47:06 -!- owned [~owned@unaffiliated/londonmet050] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:47:06 -!- owned_ is now known as owned 22:47:17 *levente_meszaros* thinks an interpreter supporting FEXPRs might be turned into a compiler using partial evaluation 22:47:46 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 22:47:51 Quadrescence: http://dto.github.com/notebook/golisp.html 22:48:04 there's lots of todo but perhaps it will help you 22:48:14 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 22:49:54 -!- serichsen [~user@f048067102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 22:50:35 Interesting. 22:50:55 I've lost a lot of touch with CL over the past year :{. I wonder what's been going on since. 22:50:56 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-96-255-9-45.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:53:39 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:36 the usual "not much". 22:56:17 -!- owned [~owned@93-96-43-166.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:58:17 Quadrescence: quicklisp is the hottest thing since hot lava. 22:58:38 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:59:31 Xach: hey wait a minute is this you endorsing your own project 23:01:26 Quadrescence: have a  23:01:47 Quadrescence: also, SBCL and CCL at the very least have perfectly good crossreferencing. 23:01:47 thanks 23:01:49 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:01:51 Xach: hey wait a minute is this you endorsing your own project 23:02:03 yes, it is, and rightly so 23:02:12 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:02:42 owned [~owned@93-96-43-166.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:03:35 *Xach* pleads the 5th 23:03:45 go, go Xach! 23:09:37 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-154-37.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:50 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:12:49 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-146-3.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:59 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:14:29 Xach: I applaud your work; I just watched the screencast. 23:15:08 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-21-82-64-80-44.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:17:56 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-121-178.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:18:12 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:19:11 -!- khrum42 [~khrum42@2001:a60:f05d:1::dead] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:19:56 khrum42 [~khrum42@2001:a60:f05d:1::dead] has joined #lisp 23:21:21 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 23:22:33 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 23:23:32 not all of it...insufficient time! 23:23:55 part 2 is among the top 3 parts of that screencast 23:23:58 -!- khrum42 [~khrum42@2001:a60:f05d:1::dead] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:31:31 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:55 weirdo [sthalik@c146-20.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:38:15 me4 [user@091-141-116-193.dyn.orange.at] has joined #lisp 23:39:06 -!- symbole_ [~symbole@216.214.176.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:39:13 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:39:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:39:57 davazp [~user@84.122.72.152.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:53 -!- zbeasnyy [~mornfall@ip-89-102-11-250.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:48:12 -!- [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:49:55 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-6975.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:58:06 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CDBD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)]